everyone we'll start our meeting roll call Mayor Bruner here vice mayor Rich here commissioner Collins commissioner Clark commissioner McDonald here okay will everyone rise with the pledge of allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republ for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and for okay presentation of the city of Stewart wellfield and water plant evaluation or am I jumping ahead of myself I show ahead of the roll call or don't yeah I did appr the agenda I move the approval of the agenda second we have approval agenda we have a second all in favor I I excuse me Madam mayor we did have an invocation this evening I just um I'm not sure no I know and that's what um invation no we just need the presentation was I was trying here I'm just double check oh you are sorry inv thank you sir please come on up yeah we'll all rise again he's going to give the uh thank you sir yes absolutely I'm Aaron me I'm the pastor of higher purpose Pentecostal church thank you for this opportunity to be here and offer this invocation uh when I was in college I took a couple business classes and in those classes I learned the concept of the upside down pyramid right it's the same idea of an organizational pyramid you've got the you know the top of the company and the very top and those who their constituents on the bottom and various levels of of managers and leadership in between and the idea of the upside down pyramid is that though the leaders often on top they're a actually more on the bottom and they're holding up the entire organization on their shoulders and uh and it reminds me of the weight of leadership the weight that you all bear today in leading this great City and I want to say thank you for that thank you for your commitment to that and uh so in my invocation I'd like to just pray for God's blessing on you and uh to pray for peace for you peace in this meeting and that the Lord would bless it if we could bow our heads right now Lord Jesus we thank you for this opportunity to come together to better our city Lord God our government local government we pray that your peace would be in this place bless every person Lord here help us God to carry out this business Lord with love in our hearts bless these leaders that God you'd give them wisdom understanding and we thank you again for all of your goodness in our lives in Jesus name I pray amen thank you sir presentation right yes I didn't have any that said that we had a anyway city of Stewart wellfield and water plan evaluation I'll say it again go ahead thank you sir thank you uh I'm going to sit over the uh the control over there and and kind of guide the presentation or start it off well good afternoon mayor members of the commission uh it's so good to to be with everyone here this afternoon uh for the record my name is Peter cunan director of utilities and Engineering for the city of Stewart and uh we have for you uh this afternoon a presentation uh that's going to be given by our engineering consultant kimley horn it's uh the evaluation a of our existing uh water well fields and also uh uh a evaluation and recommendation for what is in essence the future of the city's water treatment so what will be explained to to all of you is first the condition of our existing Wells which is uh with our existing surficial aquafer water supply and uh as as most of you know the city recently opened up a new reverse osmosis water treatment facility which we had the ribbon cutting back on May the 10th uh very exciting uh exciting uh Grand Opening and uh certainly it is the the future of of Water Production for for the city of Stewart uh that reverse osmosis facility as will be explained in in in a few moments draws water from a deeper water source the Florida aquifer and uh so without any further Ado there's a lot to to cover with the presentation I'd like to introduce uh from our consultant uh timley Horn uh Miss Andrea Carpenter and Mr Mark Miller they're going to be giving giving you the rundown of the presentation um and then certainly we're here to field any questions that that you may have afterwards uh so with that Andrea if you would please get started thank you sir good evening uh City commissioners uh we do appreciate the opportunity to uh presenting the wellfield evaluation and the results of that as well as the treatment plan evaluation um also with us today is John friedrick um he's with JLA geosciences he also assisted in the wellfield condition assessment which is a portion of this evaluation we're going to present to you today um thank so as uh Peter mentioned um the age of the city of Stewart wellfield has um exceeded its useful life it treated the city of Stewart very well it did last for about uh 50 years but typical uh useful life for official wellfield it's about 30 years um the material of the of the well is um it's steel um which does doesn't last as long if a PVC well casing does last a bit long longer you could get a longer life out of that but um most of the pretty much 95% of these Wells are made of uh steel casing so uh there has been a condition assessment for the for the wells we did downhole videos to determine um the the condition of each well um as well as we did find scaling we found substantial capacity degradation on the Wells um holes in the casings definitely well casing failures um also uh there's a screen at the bottom of the well been degraded or just no no longer no longer existent and therefore uh with that not being in place there was a substantial amount of sand production for some of these Wells that did uh does get into the water supply system and uh this that sand is actually producing uh creating impacts to the filtration system that is used to actually remove the sand from the water supply uh so this does increase maintenance of this particular filtration system so um these Wells are like I mentioned earlier it is uh Beyond its useful typical welllife um other challenges that the city is well aware of is the emerging contaminants issue uh the latest being posos um but also there is uh Bo's which is another contaminant that the city has been dealing uh dealing with for many many years uh these emerging contaminants um have required additional treatment processes such as the ion exchange system and also vocc Towers so it it's uh led to a more complicated system having to have all these additional treatment processes to treat different types of ersing contaminants that are plaguing um the city's surficial AER Supply currently um these emerging contaminants have increased operating cost and capital cost because of the addition of these uh these treatment facilities that are needed for removal of the contamination and what was the other one uhfc bcc's they're volatile organic and that's been an ongoing probably about 50 40 50 years now um since 1989 I believe was when that contaminant came uh had emerged as uh uh contaminating the groundwater Supply so uh other um areas it's just the reliability and the degradation of the surficial aquifer is just uh it's impeding on the on the different treatment processes and the water quality that is being um provided to the city of seart for drinking water one thing I do want to note um we love this photo the bottom right corner so the lower uh bucket that's your s that's where it's just your surficial Al for Supply is treated normally without iron exchange so there is a bit that's the organic so it the Organics in the water supply does produce a certain color to your water it's not harmful it's just you know aesthetically it it doesn't look good so the ion exchange system you could tell the the difference with the implementation of the ion exchange ion exchange system so with the implementation of the reverse osmosis that treatment sort or that treatment process blending that with the um lime softened water that the city has been using to treat the surficial alfer could would also produce or reduce I should say the cut the amount of color and in Organics in the city's water supply um just the background on the two different uh potential water supply sources that are available to the city of Stewart the first one we've been talking about is the official AER Supply the depth of this well is less than 200 ft the city's depth uh well depth below land surface is about 135 125 ft um over time uh what happens with these Wells yes you rehabilitate it over time but eventually like I mentioned earlier it you reduced its use you reduce its useful life within 30 years so over time the production of the wells are limited capacity is limited or reduced um and then also uh just drought impact on a surficial aquifer is more pronounced than you than a Florida oer water supply um all the other you know contaminants I should say impurities are the Organics that we discussed as well as iron uh you find a a higher level of iron in a official aquer Supply versus the florid and aqu aquafer supply and of course the uh manmade contaminants that plague the groundwater Supply so um the other uh water supply source is the Flor and oer that's being used uh currently at the city's uh treatment plant um the depth of that well is about about 1,000 ft plus or minus below land surface it's a confined aquifer which means uh it protects it protects the water supply from those manmade contaminants that are impacting the groundwater Supply the surficial groundwater Supply um it does have a a level an elevated level of sulfur or sulfide which is that you know that smelly uh egg smell that rotten egg smell but that does get removed with a treatment that's called degasification so that removes that hydrogen sulfide and that egg smell from your water supply um the advantages are the abundance of the supply um it's the abundance is compared to a surficial aler is just it's not comparable uh resiliency to droughts there is no drought impact to a Flor an aqu aquus Supply Source um I you know protected from contaminants I mentioned and it's an extremely reliable source of drinking water um so Peter did mention I'm sure we all know that there was a ribbon cutting on May 10th um the ribbon cutting was for the 1 and a half million gallon per day reverse osmosis treatment plant um there is room the design does allow room for an expansion to a three million gallon per day uh reverse osmosis treatment plant it's really just adding an additional membrane here our skid we call it a skid um and also a degasification tower an additional degasification Tower so part of the design of the 1 and a half million gallon is allowed for future expansion and buildout to a 3 million gallon per day treatment plant um the water sour so adding this additional treatment process has has definitely reduced the stress and the official Al for Supply but going to that additional uh 1 and a half so 3 million gallon per day expansion could more could benefit um and relieve more stress on this official AER Supply awesome awesome um also just just a a point the Florida aquifer um is easily permitted when you're comparing it to a official aquifer Supply well uh the reason for that is that you have less a lot less legal users and um impacts impacts from other users as well as microphone sorry the the surficial aquifer in in Martin County is um considered an aquer of limited availability just because of the the shallow depth and the the general low yield from it and so um getting permanent for superficial aqu for water supply is relatively difficult from the Water Management District whereas the FL in is a an alternative water supply according to the Water Management District and they really support promote use of that um so th those two components plus the pering regulations with existing legal users and Wetland Wetlands impacts with your surficial loer make it you know much more much more difficult thank you very much thank you so um we did complete a condition assess assessment of the existing surficial alur Supply well field um it was determined that 16 of the 23 Wells require uh replacement uh the reasons for these is because of as I mentioned initially um holes in the casings the age of the steel casing low production low uh capacity uh yield um so high sand production in some of the wells it's you know bottom line it's exceeded its useful life so replace is required for 16 of those Wells the remaining seven we did identify as only requiring Rehabilitation but most of those Wells are also steel cased and um long term they need to be replaced but for the time being they can be rehabilitated while the other Wells are being um uh constructed and designed and constructed and replaced um then we just that's the table is just a summary uh of the wells and the results of of Aging just as as I mentioned aging holes in the casing Etc items are reasons for replacement versus Rehabilitation and why we uh determine which one which well should need to be replaced um additional additionally uh we did evaluate the current capacity of the wellfield and the permitted capacity of the well field um day one the the 23 Wells or so were able to provide 7.7 million gallons per day when the when the well was new um today it's been reduced by about 30 to 50% and again that's just due to the condition of the of the surficial wells um I have here 5 a half million gallons per day of actual flow and that's really on a good day if there's a drought or just a a well is just is not producing well it's actually been reduced to about three or three and a half million gallons per day so to put that in the context of Max day or the the capacity of the plant the design capacity is 6 million gallons per day so that 3 3.5 million gallons per day of water supply does not it does not complete it does not meet that 6 million gallon per day max day requirement um summary of the cost for replacement ranges from about $1.5 million to uh 1.8 million and that's just the range is just reflects the the complication or the I should say we the complexity of the replacement of the well um and if it's a larger well or a smaller well larger diameter I should say versus a smaller diameter well but overall cost is about 1 and 1 half to um 1.8 for a replacement of a well of a surficial w um something else that we've been working with the city not necessarily as part of this evaluation but um just as in our tenure here with the city um and you know evaluating their well field we um standardize provide a recommendation for standardizing the well and essentially it's just using different materials um that uh promote La long L I can't even say that word L activity um and that's using materials like PVC versus the steel and uh stainless steel versus a steel well head so these these materials just increase the l l activity of the of the well um uh we do have we did as a city I should say we helped them but the city did replace one of the wells so it's it is uh with this standardization so uh we do have a prototype already in place for all future Wells for future well replacement um other considerations is uh the proximity of the wells to sanitary hazards um there are setback requirements for compliance for new wells um the existing Wells because they've been around for so long um there has been a lot of development around the wells whether it's commercial or residential so that you know additional Force Mains storm water systems Etc and so some of these Wells are actually within the setbacks and if we were to put a new well in its current place it would be a non-compliance concern um when you're when you're considering permitting that new well so we did we do have to look and we have looked you know high level looked at citing the servicial wells and that also played a a played in a role in deciding um what whether to replace the well or just abandon it and go to Florida o for supply and incre and expanding that 1 and a. half million gallon per day AR treatment process to three million gallons per day um we you know I've said this several times we've also eval evaluated emerging contaminants um and the impacts on the wells there will be some wells uh a portion of the wells that will have to be replaced no matter what because these Wells um do have a contam an emerging contaminant Source within the groundwater that it is pulling from so we we still uh the city still is obligated to treat that water for past removal or the voc's so those well will still have to remain and be replaced irregardless of expansion to the 3 million gallon per day Ro treatment other considerations are um the ratio of whether uh I say ratio ratio of surficial water supply versus florid and water supply whether it's 75% uh surficial and 25% flid and water supply Source or it's 50/50 what is that blend look like what is the resulting water quality from that so we did consider those aspects um when we're looking at different treatment process blending because we still as I mentioned that we still have to replace the surficial wells that do have a contaminant sour source so we still we will have to blend that surficial water with the flid and water uh water supply source so we did look at different um combinations and ratios um of the water supply and the and the capacity from the florid and versus the surficial um other considerations are obviously Capital costs because that's really important operating costs longterm we looked at just a 10year uh 10year Horizon um so we consider Capital cost for for different um sources different Florida you know different ratio of Floridan versus official what that treatment additional treatment process looks like and what that cost is associated with that um and then of the other considerations we did uh so there is a if you go more to a florid in water supply there is a reduction of disinfection byproducts it's dbps it's a there's a maximum level that there's a maximum level that you do have to abide you have to be under they call the maximum contamination limit um that you do have to be under that and if you that DBP by the dbps are potentially uh elevated from a official a for Supply uh versus using that floor to not for Supply we've talked about it does reduce the uh emerging contaminants concern if you do uh go to that floor and O for supply and then blending the sufficient with the Florida aquifer also does have an impact as as a result of a let and C errosion um we selected a we did a cost comparison for several options four different options um we looked at different ratios that's where the ratio comes in the florid and supply versus the official um Supply uh option one that just assumes that's how it is today it assumes that you you replace and Rehab your entire well field and um and the capital cost and the operating costs are associated with that with the one 1.5 million gallon per day AR treatment it's still there but it's supplemental meaning that total capacity you have is a 6 million gallon per day limes treated plant and then you also have that 1 and a half million gallon per day R treatment but you're supplementing that that water supply the RO treated water with a six so you're really only using about four and a half but it it offers of the lime treated water for you know if you're using your Ro treatment but what that does it does allow flexibility with the two use utilizing the two different water sources the uh option 1A that reduces the requirement um so the ratio is 4 and a half million gallons per day of your treating your surficial to one and a half treating the floor to a for Supply so um it's you have some flexibility but it's not as much as option one however you can reduce the amount of Wells that you need to replace and you just abandon them which it makes that this option a little more cost effective when you're comparing it to option one and this is where we're at today yeah thank um option two is the 50/50 blend so you have your 3 million gallons per day of your treating your surficial oer and you have your three of treating the the florid and oer um this allows for additional Wells to be abandoned so you don't have to replace those Wells and it's being supplemented from your with your florid and AER Supply well which again is more reliable and more resilient than your surficial um the capital costs are um they are elevated but when you look at the 10-year Horizon it starts to you start to get your money back after about 10 years when you're comparing it to option option 1A so after that it'll after beyond the 10 Years it'll pay for itself essentially option three is if you're if the city was to expand to four uh 45 million gallon per day Ro treatment and maintain the 1 and A5 million gallons per day that would just cover uh the treatment of the of your surficial wells that as I mentioned earlier official Wells that need to remain in place so you so the city can treat that water to remove the pasas and you know and remove the voc's from that surficial water supply and that's just because of compliance with the Florida Department of Environmental Protection that you would have to maintain those Wells so you can continue to treat the contaminant in the in the groundwater Supply um the resulting cost on that though is elevated the city's uh treatment plant does not have the infrastructure in place to be able to handle a 4 A5 million gallon per day reverse osmosis um plant um there will be a lot of infrastructure improvements uh pipe replacement Etc so that's why it elevates that cost that Capital cost for the option for if we were to expand a 4 and a half million gallon per day treat uh reverse osmosis treatment plant yeah so there this also uh option four or three I'm sorry also requires the construction design and construction of a deep injection well an additional one currently the byproduct from the reverse osmosis um plant does go to the Deep injection well iw2 at the wastewater treatment plant however because of the capacity required to remove to dispose of the byproduct for a 4 and a half million gallon per day reverse osmosis plant it would need it a dedicated uh deep injectional to handle that capacity the wastewater treatment plant may not be able to handle uh the capacity for disposal of that byproduct um one other thing just to note is that uh we still would like the City commissioners to to consider an additional deep injection well dedicated to the RO treatment plant if we were if we were to or the city was to proceed with option two option two is our recommendation by the way and we'll get into why but we would like the city commission to consider not today but in the future uh implementing uh just or approving the design of a deep injection well because it does allow for redundancy and reliability uh to be able to uh dispose of the of the byproduct that comes from the reverse osmosis treatment um should the well be down the Deep injection well be down for maintenance or or testing or whatever at the wastewater treatment plan you have a backup deep injection well that you can use to dispose of the of the byproduct because otherwise you'll have nowhere to to put that if the other deep injection wall is down or it's down for maintenance or what have you you won't have anywhere to put that byproduct from the four and a half or even the 3 million gallon per day um treatment reverse osmosis treatment process or option so um so like I said recommend uh expanding to 3 and a half or excuse me 3 million gallons per day of reverse osmosis um like we said like I mentioned before the infrastructure is there not much additional um constru or design or construction is needed um it's just an additional train a reverse osmosis train it's an additional de gas fire there are additional Wells the floor and O for Supply Wells however you'll be reducing the amount of surficial Wells that need to be repl placed and long term because of the reliability and the resiliency of the florid and water supply it actually um you get more bang for your butt because you're you can always rely on that water supply that floor and water supply is always there it's never going to run out you don't have the impacts of of emerging contaminants or or any you know pretty much that you're dealing with today with the surficial supply um it does meet the city's long-term water supply go goals it maintains um it does address the emerging contaminant issue it utilizes uh drought resistance there's no impact on drought for florid and water supply um it is flexibility with alter it does have some flexibility with alternative water supply um so we do recommend moving forward with the 50/50 split the expansion to the 3 million gallon per day Arro treatment um we have cited the florid and Wells uh the florid and locations proposed for and Well locations are in Orange um the existing for and well that we have that's treating the or that is being used as a water supply for the one and a half million gallon per day is on the city of Stewart site uh we also did um site the Deep injection well proposed deep injection well iw3 and that would be uh that's actually at the field across from but it's close enough to the treatment PL to where it's it's a shorter run and like I said If by adding that will be more reli more robust and you're adding redundancy to your existing deep injection well at the wastewater treatment plant um so in conclusion uh we request authoriz or we on behalf of the city request authorization for um construction and excuse me design and construction for the surficial wellfield uh improvements um also the reverse osmosis plan expansion and the addition and or the design and construction of additional Florida and aquifer Wells and then longterm just consider uh an additional deep injection well uh just for reliability and backup for the existing deep injection well at the wastewater treatment plant wait right there in case we have some questions sure yes so we're we're available for for any questions you may have at this time any Commissioners anyone any question um I don't have any questions right now but uh there was a lot to take in there and I think that we're going to have to uh really be spending some time evaluating but I I do think that you have some very good recommendations and um and it is definitely some complicated uh stuff so but great presentation by the way think you did it very well and and obviously Mr cunan and I wanted to bring It Forward just to give the board a uh kind of an overview of what's going on right now and what what really is happening is the uh new Ro plan is open but the operational costs really Mark probably knows more than I do about it but um are undetermined at this time and we're looking for I guess that balance of what's the right number of uh gallons from the surficial versus the not right number of gallons from the florid and to make it so that the cost of the media related to the uh surficial is at the right level so that we continue to remove the posos and pooa and at the same time that we don't go over on the uh rro to the extent that it the operational costs of it exceed um budgetary costs but we also have to balance that with the presentation about causing the entire wellfield to collapse which you know could could hurt so it is a complicated matter and we will keep bringing it back to you as we move forward and I'll be Consulting with Peter and probably come back to you at some point with agenda item as it relates to the uh progress for the future and the design of at minimum probably reviewing the design of uh those expansion items that were discussed whether the commission decides to actually construct it or not will be you know for another day it's more about just planning for it anticipating it and understanding what's out there thank you thank you commissioner Rich did you have a question yes yeah thank you for your presentation uh do you notice that there are more contaminants in the SAS Source on an annual basis or less or fewer but I we must we must monitor it and yeah there's EPA I think every five years comes out with they call UC regulated contaminant difficulty hearing you oh it's called ucmr they call it unregulated contaminant monitoring Rule and every 5 years they add new like P they've added 29 new ones in ucmr 5 uh lithium is another one they're adding because all the batteries out there to get in groundw Supply so that's that's epa's approach to all this that's what develops the regulations mcls and all that drink so the cost of removing we probably could anticipate that that the cost of cleaning that water source would go up probably that's why what what Mike was talking about is the RO operating costs are are actually more competitive than keeping the ion exchange heast treatment you got BCC Towers Lim softing all these other treatment so and the past the regulations are still changing so those costs aren't going to go down they're only go up so what we found the study is the the brackish Ro treat is actually more cost effective operating the that so if we go in and wanted to rehab those Wells those SAS Wells do you have to permit them because you're going to we would be taking more water from that source that you said is more he heavily regulated you have to permit that the surficial wells are already permitted okay so it's just a it's just rehabbing them or replacing yes okay even though we're going drawing almost two million more gallons a day so the Florida o for Supply yes needs to you needs a permit additional Wells but that's easily permitted you said that the surficial is already existing in a permit that's correct um hello I was I was just going to add that if we're rehabilitating a well there's no permitting with the or the health department associated with that that's sort of a maintenance type item but if you're replacing an existing well even if you maintain the same water supply there's permitting required to move it to a new loc with the well head the location the sanitary setback requirements and and those are a lot of the complications that we have to work through with any of these Wells so a lot of rehab goes on um what is the capacity each day of of each of those floor Dan Wells like production is perfect but capacity uh we would if right now the existing Florida KN forwell the one that has been constructed is is 1 and5 million gallons per day but the the capacity design capacity is 1 million gallons per day um but because it's such a high production well this is we can't rely on this but today it's a high production well and it can provide 1.5 million gallons per day to the treatment process however it's permitted for 1 million gallons per day and you in each you don't want to um over pump these Wells because then you're your it's called total dissolve solids but your water quality goes up sorry it's called total dissolve solids but your water quality go uh uh degrades if you as you pump ex if as you over pump the well so you know 1 million gallon per day capacity is kind of The Sweet Spot and that's what um that's what the design capacity is for the florid and well and future Flor and Wells so you would have one well dedicated yeah just a rule of thumb the the Flor is probably 10 to1 production wise to a sufficient and cost wise is 4 to1 so it kind of makes sense but not everybody does brackish in Florida because it's more operating cost but that th for fish fla so what is the actual Ro byproduct is it a slurry is it a solid is it a what it's just salt it's very high salt high levels of of salt water you're you're pulling out okay half the salinity of so it's it's a high Sal water and we call it solution but it's essentially water how deep is that injected 3,000 ft 3,000 3,000 3,000 3,000 for deep yeah that's an expensive well I thought I had read that at one time yeah um I think we should use it to give people's chlorinators for their pools fing okay those are all my questions thank yous excellent excellent thank you very much thank you thank you thank you Peter thank you you have any um you have any more more than you want to show us or presentations I think uh any more questions any for Peter any anyone well that that that ends the presentation but I'm here uh if you have any if you do have any questions You' like to ask of me I'm here thank you thank you very much I want to know why Milton would haul off and hit you in the head like that he he didn't actually it's it's a Milton would would never do that no no it was I I I'll attest to that Milton had nothing to do with this no true the guy okay well we can go with the any comments from any of our commissioners do they have anyone have a comment no comment no comment okay have no comments this evening thank you we're moving right along here our our manager Mike do you have any comments um I do I wanted to announce kind of stole my thunder but the city has received the acceptance of completion of the RO plant which is the final clearance from the FTE and the letter said the system is released to the full extent of the permitted plan so it is officially up and running awesome I also wanted to mention that Lisa Scott who uh works in the police department was named as the Executive Administrative Assistant for a medium-sized police Agency for the State of Florida at the Florida Chiefs Police Association a couple of weeks ago which is a very high honor for Lisa and for the police department in addition to that the steart police department and Kathleen Lannon with assistance from Joe Hogan as I read in the report received the Florida gang investigators association cops and Bobbers program which is a youth crime prevention program that no one else had but that's been very successful as well and uh the city of Stewart Police Department also received the William Neely gang prevention award for the State of Florida as well um which is great news and obviously shows they've been working very hard yes sir I have nothing else thank you good job Chief now we jumped ahead of ourselves do we still have the we start over with the approval we still have the have an approval of the agenda um it was uh commissioner rich and commissioner McDonald yes okay um any public comment I see none all in favor okay I I do want to ask um an issue came up and I can put it on the next agenda if you're inclined um we were contacted by Ashley capital and they were reviewing the um landfill property and the some time ago I think it was like maybe 2010 or so the there's a church directly behind the landfill that when it was approved to be um developed part of the approval process in included a an easement that provided a access road that was designed for um essentially for the fire department to ultimately cross that path they determined that the easement was not recorded it is in the Pud in a condition of the Pud so the city could record the easement they were asking me if I would uh get the uh consensus from the commission as to whether or not it would be inclined to record that and move forward on that if you're inclined I can bring it back next meeting as an agenda item I recall the uh I actually I think that was like 2011 I recall that PUD and there was I do recall uh having some sort of fire access in the back and so but uh um I would I don't I probably need I guess it's something we should be recording isn't it well I mean it's so it's in the Pud if the reason it didn't get recorded is probably because the church didn't build that well we didn't build the church is built but the city didn't build the road from station two through the Landfield landfill and then into the back of Aster Lane and whatever those properties are to access Indian Street if it's it sounds like it probably be better for me to bring it as an agenda item on August 6 to give the background yeah and I'll do so or August 12th not August 6 okay thank you I don't have any public comment only two are with is with items six and seven so we will move on for the consent calendar second we have um approval for the consent calendar a second any um any comments from the public I see none all in favor I have to do I'm sorry mayor commissioner McDonald yes commissioner Collins yes vice mayor Rich yes mayor Bruner yes okay we're going to go to commission action Lee I'm going to read this and let you read the resolution it's uh accepting State appropriation for the bo of Department of Commerce for guy Davis Park improvements welcome yes sir go ahead resolution number 62-22 a resolution of the city Commission of the city of Stewart Florida accepting a state appropriation of $500,000 from the Florida Department of Commerce for Park improvements at gu Davis Park authorizing the city manager to execute a grant agreement with the Florida Department of Commerce as a condition of award providing an effective date and for other purposes good evening Commissioners Ben Hogarth community services for the public record um so I was GNA just briefly introduce the item uh panal has a a very brief timeline presentation for you all just a go over where this project may have come from um for those of you who haven't been on the commission for as long as this you know project has been kind of in conception um so the long story short for the last year is that about a year ago you all uh adopted legislative priorities for the 2024 legislative session um we brought forward uh three different items for potential appropriation to the state uh the state did end up appropriating money for one of them um it was a half a million dollars towards guy Davis uh so we were excited to get that money um for this project project uh can well we can spend money on construction on engineering design as well um right now staff is in communication with the Department of Commerce which is now where it rests and reside kind of as a grant program uh so the Department of Commerce is sort of acting as a grant administrator for the state for this program they've requested um permission from us to to basically sign and execute a grant agreement um which will have a whole bunch of deliverables in in order for us to receive that half a million doll um in reimbursement for the project um so I'm going to leave it there tonight um not talk too much and P's just going go through the the quick timeline if you have any questions about the legislative stuff I'm here and then panal is going to talk about where the CRA is right now with that project oh Ben thanks for explaining all that to us thank you very much thank you Ben U panal gandi sa director for the record um so we do have our consultant here also giano foli uh from Calvin gardano and Associates um I'll bring him up in shortly to give a presentation and update on the project um but we like Ben mentioned we've had Chang leadership and commission since we initiated the project so I do want to walk you through the timeline of the project um so the idea of the community park improvements was developed through a charet uh the easto charet that was done back in 2002 um that Master Plan was adopted in 2004 and we often use that as a guide to identify projects in the East stward neighborhood um in 2014 it was Community Services Department that initially initiated the project uh for the improvements and develop the master plan uh the master plan was adopted contingent upon uh finding third- party funding uh at that time Community Services Department did apply for $4 million appropriation for the improvements from the state uh but please note that even at that time it did not include the recreation center it was always the park itself um we did not get funding at that time so there were no action taken until actually 2019 uh when David Das became the city manager um we looked Revisited the master plan and amended the the master plan based on the community needs and some of the changes that had occurred over the years um and then the project was divided into four phases uh phase one and two included new baseball fields concession stand restrooms upgraded playground equipment with some water features uh new stage Pavilions landscaping and parking areas um and the phase three and four uh would be uh would come into play if funding becomes available phase three was Recreation Center improvements and phase four was um overflow overflow grass parking area um and so we revised the master plan we presented to the east Stewart Community uh back in 2019 and we went out for RFP just for Phase 1 and two and this is back in 2019 um and then the master plan was uh further amended in 2020 uh we changed the design to include multi-purpose field and remove the baseball field since we already have the baseball fields at the sailfish Park uh so we rejected the proposal that came forward uh as part of the first RFP and we went out for RFP again second RFP in 2020 and um with the proposed changes to the master plan at that time we received 10 proposals for the project um we contracted the design with Calvin Giordano and Associates in 2021 and then later that year we also conducted a pre-design survey to get feedback from the East Stuart community and Stuart residents um at that time we surveyed 327 participants um and some of the top activities that came from that survey was um they were looking for exercise and walking trails uh picnic areas event space um children's play equipment lighting site amenities and Furnishings uh bathroom facilities and uh Sports Programming um so then we started working based on the uh feedback that we received and and the master plan uh we started working on the schematic plan and that was presented to the board uh in January 2022 uh we had a lot of public that showed up at that meeting and some of the comments we heard at that meeting was they wanted to see uh skate park in the plan um the East door Community wanted to make sure that we acknowledge the culture and Heritage of the of the community uh throughout the park uh additional restrooms on the south side of the park improve the existing running track improve lighting ensure that the stage has the the proposed stage has the ad compliance uh uh requirement and provide activities for all age group and So based on the feedback that we received at that time uh we further engaged with the community to gather history of East Stewart uh we actually formed a subcommittee and uh developed some ideas and Concepts that we could incorporate um in a form of art into the park and um you know we we learned a lot about the community and how we can celebrate their history leaders pioneers and cultures of East Stewart and incorporate those into as art elements throughout the park not just the park but the community itself uh we met on Saturdays on quarterly basis from November through October 2022 to accomplish this task um and giano is here he is going to um present the East Stewart public art master plan uh that was developed through th those meetings great great uh we have to sorry we updated the master plan uh based on comments and feedback um and then that was brought back back to the community and board meeting in 2023 um so we the original scope did not change we kept the original scope but we did incorporate uh an area for skate park about 12,400 Square ft area for skate park uh pending that the private group provides funding for the project um we also provided uh are providing infrastructure for second bathroom on the south side of the park community Dog Park Lawn area for activities um on the north side of the park with yard games and linear Park uh for that could be enjoyed by all ages um and additional are elements that would be um throughout the park um so the the additional scope would be completed as part of the second phase so we're skills keeping the the original scope um and we're going to incorporate these additional elements uh additional requests that came through meetings um but those would be incorporated as as funding becomes available um at that meeting uh back in January 2023 the board did direct staff to move forward with engineering and construction plans for the project so uh we did complete 30% design back in September 2023 and uh the other departments did review the those plans and provided comments um G um TG um they're they're work the consultant is working on um finalizing the 60% design and um I and I am budgeting $7 million in the fiscal year 2025 C budget that you'll see in September for your review and approval so at this time I'm going to ask uh giano to come forward and give an update on the design and what the next steps are in the process good evening giano fi with caver Don Associates it's a pleasure and we do have a couple slides that we want to share with you so as panal mentioned uh we have worked very diligently to put together a master plan for this overall Park and it's really we have really worked outside of the boundaries of our scope to make sure that we took all the extra work to ensure that the long-term uh additional phases that could come about as a result of the development of this park would all work very seamlessly with what the first phase would be and you know much much to commend to the city for we actually took the time to pause to really build a relationship with the community to let them know that the improvements of the park really are here for the betterment of the overall Community as a whole I'm so excited over this yeah so so a lot of those feedbacks that that that we we got over the sort of prolonged participation of a lot of the community members in fact a lot of them opened up their private resources of data photographs um as much information as they could to sort of give us um towards that effort um so I'll say next a lot up pel so we met in this room on several occasions with with that subcommittee next and out of that committee we had a lot of discussions about how we wanted to celebrate the community and acknowledge the value that they brought to the overall neighborhood next and the takeaway was that there were six main themes that uh we wanted to celebrate through that Pro uh through that program uh one was celebrating the women in leadership particularly recognizing the women at the Spectrum School were really the sort of torchbearers of sort of teaching young children um how to uh be active in in the community um they wanted to celebrate um the migration of the many different Pioneer families that came here of course some acknowledgement to Mr guy Davis and his contributions they wanted to celebrate Educators celebrating the impact of sports and celebrating the black historic businesses particularly with a focus on the entrepreneurship that some of these businesses that next so we've compiled all of that together into an East stward public master plan that is the way that we see it is the first step to a to a living document that should be added to periodically so that this history never gets lost we are limited to the amount of data that is accessible to us through the residents um hopefully um additional residents will be able to provide some more data so that that data can of that uh that master plan can be um augmented next so part of that Master Plan includes sort of a an understanding of what the value of public art is and you'll see a lot of a lot of the historical images that we were able to get from the East Stewart uh Community next so in there we talk about um sort of an educational component as to what the value of public art is next in in the plan itself next we provide a lot of guiding principles particularly for the artists so that they understand how need to frame their work and how they need to approach their work so that it is sensitive to the to the to the feedback that we got so those were um expressing issues of diversity um making sure that the art is unique um and making sure that it's appropriate um but towards those efforts we provide a lot of guidelines for the artist next um uh and those are laid out in very in in various different categories such as how do you support the local culture and the local businesses how do you how do you provide an economic benefit how do you provide some level of capacity building um and how are you true to the overall history that's there thanks we also included criteria that the city should use in terms of evaluating what art should go in and how to determine if our art is um uh better than another sort of uh uh candidate those includes the artistic Merit of the overall piece the sense of place the suitability to an overall collection um and of course the material and durability to make sure that these art components once they go in that they're not fading in a two or threee p uh time period or they're not subject to uh to Decay or getting brittle with the sun next we also created some curatorial themes to be able to guide how the artists will be providing the artwork so there's three main themes that we wanted to derive from those bigger ideas that we got from the community those are really celebrating the heritage of the East Stewart neighborhood next celebrating the environment within which um a lot of these individuals sort of live um and the character and look of the steward area and then of course this idea of identity celebrating the um equity and the Pioneer and diversity um within the overall Community class then the major components of that would were uh the major components that uh um made up the sort of art pieces that would be part of that phase one next so those first steps included five different art components that we are laid into the park program part of the park program includes parking on the south with a sort of flexible event space that will give us an opportunity to provide farmers markets uh movies in the lawn um any kind of pickup uh sort of facility as well as overflow parking um in that perious area um in the middle of the park you have sort of a multi-use Playfield and then on the North side which will be the back of the community center you've got stage lawn Splash Pad restroom and Concession and um a children's playground um rehab So within there we wanted to sort of embed opportunities for art in public places of course these were not built into the original scope of the work and into the original budget but the idea is that as we get um all the components parla from a pricing standpoint we're able to roll out sort of prioritizations as to which our component gets to be incorporated into the overall Park element so I'll walk you through these really quickly next the first one is um the namesake of the park which is Mr gy Davis we want to have sort of an entry feature that celebrates him and the one thing that we heard over and over and over again was that he was most recognizable by his hat the fact that he wore a hat so um we have sort of a hat sculpture with a with a um made up of a ribbon and the idea is that the ribbon is sort of tying everything together the outside of the ribbon is the royal blue and the inside is is a gold color so those were the colors of the school Spectrum yes so we wanted to sort of bring that history into the overall um component next we also wanted to celebrate the pioneering quality of the community so we're working with our Architects so that part of the structural system are panels that are out that that um essentially becomes the facade of of the restroom and Concession building each one of those panels then becomes an opportunity for art display so a myriad of different artists could be able to provide some art components there and we're looking that potentially mosaics could go on that one next we also wanted to create a sports Walk of Fame um these will be uh components that are embedded within the concrete um with plaques and they celebrate the different uh members of the community that have gone on and done great things um in the World of Sports next along the east side of the park um if you see the image on the top right where those overhead utilities are right now we're in the process of working with the utility companies to try to get those things undergrounded so we're working with FPL to service that um that building from the south and the majority of the wires that are coming across our AT&T are working with T&T to get those things undergrounded so that then we can have clearance what that'll do is that that'll give us an opportunity to start to look at that facade that blank wall that currently is molded and Milo and kind of as an isore working with that property owner so that that wall can become sort of a woman's mural wall the place where we um sort of celebrate the value and role that women played in the overall Community next um we created a Plaza on the south side of the park um which will be right next to the area that we've allocated for a potential skate park um and one of the things that that we really took away from our conversations with the community was this notion that involvement in school and education was such a critical component to um to uh ensuring some level of advancement for for the community um so the notion that whenever you want to participate you raise your hand to be called in class so we use that as a symbol and the idea is that um with these art sculptures you have hands sort of being raised that come out of the sculpture garden but then the wing of them which we're taking from sort of an inspiration of the back fin of a fish then becomes a place where we provide the history and the images of the people who we're trying to celebrate in the community and the idea is that this then becomes sort of a plaza piece that becomes a destination um for art and I believe there's one more and this one really is an uh an incorporation in the park project as much as um so much of the history of the community is lost when the buildings get losted so what we wanted to do was to create these Memorial markers that could be uh sort of parlayed through throughout the East Stewart community that could identify critical components of that community that are that are that are no longer there sort of markers that Mark what used to be there if it was a corner store that was very important or a member of the community or something that merited some level of Distinction and then sort of a plaque with with some image is that copper that would be a material that we're recommending called Folia it's the material that Disney uses and all of their signage you can take a sledgehammer to it and nothing happens to it it doesn't fade I installed a sign made out of it on a beachfront property in 2002 down a marathon Key and I went down there last year and it was like it was installed yesterday awesome so it's a great material I like that I like that idea yeah um next so through our research we were able to identify a lot of different properties that were either of significant members of the community or of significant value to the community that we thought that that would be sort of meritorious to be looked at as part of the overall ma Master next so as pan mentioned right now we're in the phase of finalizing the 60% plans uh we have a little bit of a holdup with the utility companies we're trying to get those negotiations done because of the pause that we did to sort of come up with the master plan components there were Personnel changes in the utility companies and it's kind of like dealing with them all over again from uh from from scratch so that has taken us a little bit more effort than we really wanted to our goal is to have those 60% plans done by late August early September we're then going to do we're going to uh uh uh bring on our third party uh cost estimator for them to give us a full evaluation of all the components of the part and then at that point we're going to determine within the budget that is allocated what can be part of the base bid and then we're going to bid out all the other components of the part even even if they're over budget as ADD alternates so that then you can get pricing directly from the contractors so that they so that you don't have us guessing what the market price is but you have the contractors actually telling you what the cost to build these things are so that then you can prate and have real good numbers to plan for future phases uh in the future at that time in November we want to come back to the community and have our last Community engagement to let them know out of all the components that we're putting in what actually is going to make it through that threshold with the budget uh allocations with the goal of finalizing the plans and getting ready forbid at the end of the year so that by the middle of 20 so the middle of 2026 we'll be having a ribbon cutting for the park so that's that's where we are in terms of that thank you so much thank you very very much so now do you have anything to add that wraps up our presentation to any you need a motion to accept the the appropriation appropriation right also move to accept appropriation second have a your presentation was not in our packet correct p no that wasn't this was just an update as part of the appropriation we're going to come back again and give a full presentation we just wanted to present cop though please yes for I'd like a copy of it as well um Madame mayor if uh you don't mind uh I think we should uh uh if it's okay at the rest of commission we send a letter to letters to uh uh represent ative Snider and and Senator Harold uh thanking him for getting this appropriation completed and getting it to us if that would be okay with the commission we can do it by consensus sure absolutely so and have the mayor send sign a letter that's a great idea well we have a motion and we have a second any comments from from our commissioners we do have one public comment yes we do Mr Cooper I believe yes Joseph is he here man Joe Stevie Stevie is it Steve or is it Joe good evening Commissioners sta Joseph Cooper 906 Southeast 9th Street um to come I want to start off by um thanking you for allowing me to speak thank you um Miss pel and of course um Calvin and Jano for their great presentation to speak on item six one of the things I want to start with is that I I found this is a public park considered to be public good and so it's defined as a public good as a type of good good that s um that succeed in meeting the criteria for nonrival or non- exclus exclusive ity like street lights no one can exclude anyone from using it or someone use of it will not reduce the availability so it's a public park by definition public good yes it is but because a public park can be regarded as a public good because it's fulfilling the criteria of non-exclusive ability and non R because anyone can use the public part um the the god Davis Park in his and its concept when it was formed was located in East store but it's still a public park the the the unique thing about this is that it will benefit the entire Community because when we look at all our parks located throughout the city this is centrally located um it's one of the largest by land mass parks in the city it becomes a gathering not just for the re residents in close proximity but the way this plan who I have also participated in this design con speaking to the community they want this they want to move forward um and I believe that this is an opportunity because when you create this while we're celebrating the pioneers of East Stewart as some of the things that we're incorporating it's still it's going to create I call a world class Park that be utilized by all the city residents um because of its location and proximity so I employ this the commission to kind of make it a part as as is going to be a part of the budget um coming up but we want to also fund it um because without funding it it can't go forward and I think it's the time we've been working on it for a long time and they walk in the streets meeting everybody and I grew up there I ran to the parks and played and so I think this is going to be a great great um thing for the city and it's going to put our because when we look at the county they've done a lot of things to their Parks but we have kan's Park which is great Memorial Park but with the multi-use the multi multi faets of this part it becomes right now we've got B we've got um lacrosse been played soccer been played baseball been played now we bring it all together we improve the facilities because it's a public good so thank you for allowing me to speak I believe that this is something that we should get behind as a city and we should fund it po taste and get it done um because the community wants it thank you I agree Mr Cooper I agree thank you Joe all right any other comments from the public I see none we'll take a roll oh can I just make it yes so the original conception for this did you say 2004 penel 2004 right so 20 years yes the C the city has been work um I appreciate the perseverance of I think that precedes even you Troy doesn't it 2004 oh yeah by many years so I don't know it's Mike is the one that uh he's that did it back then I don't know what impediments well I can imagine them there one there one impediment I I think I think Mr Cooper were you involved back theness know improve city in in 2004 the CRA was generating about $100,000 a year yeah so I think it's taking some time now we do have the money in the coffers we got to kind of we kind of have to move that money to to kind of get it started now I think it's time I think it's needed and I think it's wanted and I believe once again everybody in the city can benefit from it not just the immediate resident so I emphasize we're fortunate to have such a big plot of land I can't remember 33 or 35 Acres what is it exactly was 16 oh well I'm really exaggerating yeah that's that's like say it's it's we've have it we can do it I think um when we when we when it's finished I think everybody we can applaud this because this is this is public good yeah and it's big thank you oh I just I just hope we can prioritize it to a greater degree and move it I mean that's a terrific looking plan thank you for that I look forward to reviewing it in detail and I look forward to our decisions with regard to the budget on this is item thank you thank you commissioner now we'll have a role commissioner McDonald yes commissioner Collins yes mayor Bruner yes vice mayor Rich yes okay we will move forward this is release of unity of title for Lots one and two of the Norton's Landing plat Lee could you read that please sure resol olution number 692024 a resolution of the city Commission of the city of Stewart Florida releasing a Unity of title for Lots one and two of the January 1988 Norton's Landing plat providing an effective date and for other purposes I think go ahead if you want to just to uh as a brief background on this uh this matter arose at the city in approximately 2015 I don't know if this is on um mine anyway um in 2015 when Mr stankovich came to um the city's Board of adjustment and sought a uh variance for some setbacks to build uh a home on what was amounted to essentially a legal lot in in um I don't know which year it was but I think it was about 2019 uh it was determined that first of all the board of adjustment granted the setbacks that went forward but in 2019 it was determined that there was uh two different Unity of titles that had been recorded on the lot one was recorded in favor of the city of Stewart and technically it was two because one was recorded in 1989 and then it was recorded again in 1991 and the one in 1991 said that it replaced the 1989 one but in doing this agenda item I was concerned that if you just remove the 1991 one would there be an interpretation that that meant the one from 1989 was now in place again so 89 and 91 are considered one Unity of title for the purposes of your conversation tonight um I had been speaking with Mr Waters and uh there was also a Unity of title in 2003 that was given to the County Commission and I don't know why I I do not have the any idea of what was related to that or what happened there but um because it existed I had asked Mr Waters to address that with the county before coming to the city Commission because I knew if it was outstanding it wouldn't matter anyway it's my understanding that they went to the county back in October or November and that the County Commission um withdrew or rescinded the 2003 un need of title so now um the property owner has a approximately 3200 foot house under construction on what amounts to be lot two but it's restricted because there's a Unity of title between lot two and lot one and lot one has his Primary Residential home on it and therefore um he's uh before you tonight to request a waiver of the unity of title and I'll let um Tyson Waters take it from there thanks for coming Mr Waters and explaining this thank you Tyson waters on behalf of the property owner and applicant here and I Mr mortell did a great job giving the history which is pretty confusing but just to to kind of backtrack even more um this whole section was originally part of the Indian Groves platform 1920 and 1987 an individual owned a chunk of that land she actually replatted it so you ended up with a a plat called Norton's Landing which was lot one two and three um around the same time as Mr mortell said in 89 then 91 that individual got a Unity a title that is with the city that's still out standing today and it actually includes not just lot one and lot two which are my client's property but also lot three which is a neighbor closer to the main road so this Unity en tile actually encompasses three lots one of which is not our um as Miss mortell said the the idea with that Unity title as you can read in the document was uh presumably at some point a multif family development was proposed for those three lots never transpired in 2000 lot three was sold off and then shortly there I'm sorry in 1994 lot three was sold off to a separate individual and then in 2000 Lots one and lots two start started to be S sold off um and then the owner of lot three a lot two well excuse me the owner of lot one and two again for whatever reason back in 2003 went to Martin County and got a Unity of title for just Lots one and two and developed the home we I first came in about a year or so ago to try and unravel this and realize the levels of complexity so working with the city uh we found these unipa titles we first went to Martin County who again had no understanding or knowledge of reason why their Unity of title was in place understanding that it was jurisdiction of the city they had no points so at the end of last year we had that one released by Martin count so the only one left on this piece of property and again it's not just on this piece of property but it's lot one lot two and lot three are these two Unity of titles so what we're in front of you today is asking you to release the uni title which has no more purpose because again it was intended for a multi de development that's not happen what this will allow us to do simply is to continue to work with the city to finish the devel elment of the single family home on lot two that's it once this is released we'll go back to the city work with them to address what any concerns or comments they have as it relates to the building permit so that we can complete the construction that that single family home and with that happy to answer any questions that anyone may have okay thank you yes sir oh hey Tyson thank you I appreciate you coming to trying to unravel this mess um so just a couple things I'm going to first I'm going to just focus on uh the the last whereas Clause um uh of the uh resolution if you want to take a chance to take a look at that and and really I want to just kind of look at the last I guess it's maybe a sentence or two uh which page you on it's on page two of the resolution um and it is uh the last sentence uh let's see the owner of the partially built structure on lot two completes the property to the extent that storm water uh CU I know that he's kind of he's modified the uh the drainage easements so that needs to be done outside landscaping and exterior of the shell are complete within a reasonable amount of time so a couple things I want to do is I want to put a I want to put a drop dead datea what I don't like reasonable amount of time because there is so much interpretation as to what that is and um I was talking with Mr mortal a little bit and he said maybe March 8 April I'd actually cuz I want to put some other other language in here as well go up to one year to to get that done but uh because there's precedent from this uh from a property over on St Lucy Crescent that if it's not completed uh that the property would be demoed and uh and that he would put up a bond to cover the cost of the demo um so what's your so to address an it brings me to another Point first that I can easily address another thing in this resolution is a requirement by the end of August to make sure they're two by the property appraiser they're identified as separate Lots well that's already happened yeah was in September but when um when Martin County released their unit title the property appraiser went ahead and assigned a new parcel identification so now it is officially according to the property appraiser lot one and lot two so that's been done okay um as it relates to the the um the timetable and the de demolition I don't think it's appropriate one in part because this Unity a title it encumbers lot three which is unrelated and as of right now they're in violation of this Unity of title so this really just fixes a problem that affects more than just us and I think part two is if this isn't released and this is how I first came involved was the idea was if there if in fact this is a Unity at tile and forc to be one that the two structures would would just simply be combined into a structure so what we're trying to do is address ongoing situations so that if isn't if the unitile isn't released we don't want to dim on the structure we just want to combine it with the existing structure no I know and I I think a lot of these things would are more appropriately to be addressed as part of the building permit process I mean this has been affected by code enforcement complaints already and I think that's the appropriate appropriate Avenue that in the event we don't comply with the building per the building permit and the requirements of that building permit whether it relates to Landscaping us demonstrating that we've met any storm water issues and drainage issues think there's a Code Enforcement mechanism that's already in place for the city that's the appropriate means to do this as opposed to condition of a Unity of title that says we we'll Grant this if you do this because again this Unity of title affects another lot that's already in violation of the unity of title well you know the reason I and the reason I you know the reason I'm going this route is like I said we actually have precedents from uh a property on St Lucy PR on St Lucy Crescent that we uh forc the Dem demolition on uh also uh what I have heard from Neighbors is about the lack of completion and then far as the code enforcement the only Avenue that we have is um is fines right you know in code enforcement and right now the fines are reduced to judgment are approximately 130,000 and another 98,000 that has not been reduced to judgment and but as you know because it's currently Homestead we can't really do anything about about that so that's why as a condition of the release for Unity title I want to go that ra I want to give them plenty of time to get it done and I want to make because I don't want them to fail but I also want to ensure that we are protected on our end if we Grant this but I I I think you rais a good point right now it is a single track of land it's under common ownership as a single track of land so it does have Homestead protection I think what you do by granting this Unity this release you've now officially and formally created two separate tracks of land so there's Homestead on one tract that's in compliance it has a home on it there's no Homestead on the other track of land so I think now you do have more teeth to say get it done or out and so that's why again I think these conditions while appropriate in some circumstances given the history and the issues with this un title and the opportunities that does present the city I don't think those remedies are appropriate or warranted yeah and the reason so I'm G to throw a hypothetical out there uh puts a put quit claims a portion of the property to uh a relative moves them in there and puts Homestead on it immediately then we lose our ability to do Homestead well well one I mean there is statutory protection because there has to be these disclosures of if I convey a piece of property to somebody there's a code violation um there's disclosures and I don't know if there's already a lean on the property but there's there's a means that you can kind of protect yourself in other ways through filing and um okay so let me think about as we're deliberating I'll think about this e issues uh I just want to make sure that and uh and uh the owner acknowledges the uh that we do have the judgments and understands we do have the judgments and the fines are currently running I I think that's why I got hired I was retained in the first place to try and address the situation at hand again I was retained first to try and to try and connect the the units to make it a single single home on a larger track plant I think through our research and investigations I think this was the original intention and this allows the original attention again a building permit was issued I think again as Mr mortell said back in 2015 because there was an assumption that was incorrect that these were two separate legal lcks so again we're just trying to correct something that it seemed to be an air on again not just this property but lot three since you know the mid 90s and uh just make sure he he acknowledges that he needs to fix the storm water and that issue what I will acknowledge again there might be some disagreement about the condition of the property drainage and storm water but I think what what we all are committed to do is work with the building department so that we can address whatever situations need to be addressed out there and bring this property in compliance that's why I'm here today and and the landscaping and getting the exterior of the show whatever is required and I know I think that's the focus Point too of making sure the exterior is in a position that we can eliminate some of the heard complains from Neighbors about the not only about the condition of the the structure but the property around with construction debris and stuff like that and has that been cleaned up that I don't know but again I think all of this yes so so it has been cleaned up and it'll continue to be monitored as as we're able to try and bring this property into compliance but this right the the release of the UN of title is the first step to allow us to bring a compliance to see something got to introduce yourself Robert stankovich I'm the owner the problem with this the storm water is a community next door their property you know their parking lot actually overflows into my driveway and goes across actually lot three and there's nothing we could do to stop that from overflowing I mean there's wasn't there a drainage actual drainage eement Mike well there's a there's a couple there was a Swale that went between lot two and lot three and there's also a drainage or utility easement across lot one but um the name of is called Village Oaks now but before it was Village Oaks it was a in 1991 it was a different subdivision and it was designed for the sheet flow of the storm water to run down their parking lot and across Lots one two and three that didn't have a driveway on them and that were just open space so what happened in 1994 when whoever it was that built lot three and lot one they put the driveway in and what would happen is the water would sheet flow over that driveway and if you look at the Google Earth pictures you can see a Swale that directed The Water kind of into the mangroves and um when they brought the fill in to put the house on lot two The Fill filled in that sale and as a result it now shifts the water to essentially the southeast and it directs it not into peton Creek but into the backs of uh Parcels that are um two doors down the road our our discussions in the past had been that um Mr stankovich could put a grate in at the edge of his driveway that could capture that water and put a drainage pipe or storm water pipe under his driveway right back to where it the mangroves were originally with a small baffle box of sorts to catch the water and go into the creek and accept that sheet flow but there is no doubt that the sheet flow is was designed for I don't know how many units are in Village Oaks but I think it's 14 or 16 units if in fact Mr stankovich were to put a stem wall up on the edge of his driveway there to prevent the sheet flow from coming onto his property he would he would essentially flood Village Oaks so and my own property right lot one and I just want to mention something that I never altered the lot through Swale that's same elevation that's always been so I didn't you I didn't touch that I mean that's not even my property lot three and let me just also mention something else too that you know I worked with lot 3 owner and Robert long because Robert long is the one that was affected and actually the previous homeowners from that house for years and years and years you know since I lived there since 16 there must there might have been three owners and I saw the basement you know all the contents of the basement out on the street like three or four times because the whole bottom just floods so when Robert long moved in you know he redid the whole bottom end and just immediately it got flooded so I worked with him and what I did was I increased my retention area behind you know on lot two and that actually cured the problem and it doesn't go into Robert Long's property anymore the only thing that he'd like to address is lot three gutters they she just installed gutters and I know that there was something there but I I don't know what it was but that's the only thing that Robert Long's concerned with because you know you know even with the the the flooding I just I don't know what the I don't I I only it controls so much so well we want to solve this sir we want to get this solved tonight and let me see if there's any of the other Commissioners that want yes yes uh Mr Mel's statement was made that the swell was not filled in do we agree with that no okay was a permit obtained to fill that Swale in so a a building permit was obtained to build the house that he's building but nine years ago I'm going to show you a Google map right here that I pulled up on the internet and you can see the sale you can see the curvature of the fill and if you go to that property I was there today and it does this is your driveway and that's the dip that dip is gone gone so I mean there's no doubt that that was there see right here you know right at that area you know that's all so that that's original elevation that original elevation goes to those palm trees right there and then when I leave the elevation and go to where the current construction is of the house those palm trees are right here behind the corner of the new home and as a result that Swale can no longer go here and instead it flows down this way to these other homes and that's where that flooding goes but if you looked at that street view you could see it was there again I'm not I wasn't planning on getting into this debate no we don't want to do that we don't go ahead Mr no I have a few more questions um has Mr sankovich called for all the required inspections during this n-year construction process I I've actually had an act sorry I'm speaking to the city manager Mr I don't I don't know that he called for all the inspections I know that Steve Nicolosi the prior building inspector revoked the permit back in roughly 19 or 20 I don't actually remember the specific date I I do have 21 21 um there was a code enforcement proceeding that that started as it related to it I had a history of it um the um a hearing took place uh a code enforcement hearing took place and roughly um let me see what the dates were uh I started dealing I got involved in it in 22 um the in February 21 one he entered a code enforcement stipulation uh regarding met multiple code matters the stipulated order agreed that the windows would be complete the roof would be complete and inspected and the entire house outside of the house would be complete prior to July of 21 in February 22 the property was violated for failure to comply with the stipulated order in March of 22 hearing the city learned that Mr stankovich had never subdivided the parcels to create the legal parcel for the second home to be constructed um pursuant to the city comprehensive plan a permit cannot be issued for two houses on one lot unless the second house meets the criteria of an accessory dwelling unit the permit issued to Mr sankovich expired and the second house remains in disrepair and unfinished after being under construction for seven years thank you okay can I can I say something let him finish sir okay you know the purpose of Regulation is to ensure the safety of our community and those of us who live here and it's not just for your safety that we have building requirements and your family who you choose but in an area that is so prone to hurricanes your inadequate roof flying off poses a danger to the entire Community your indifference to the necess the the necessary presence of that SW to drain that Community is very disturbing to me I've been told by the people that live there that you put your trusses up and they were up there for up to 6 months uncovered I called the trust company today and I said does that threaten the Integrity of those trusses and they sent me to this it cannot be assumed that a structure is okay after being left to weather for a very long time a ballpark number is about a month that they may they may be left out for a week Max and then should be covered you probably voided the warranty on your trusses I'm let me finish sir I think the city has a problem here in that we have to ensure that this structure and all the elements in the structure are safe abs and I don't know to what degree we have inspected but if your roof trusses you know were up and exposed for that length of time and the warranty is voided you know it's this is a mess Mye this is a mess I also hear that and I tried to walk there today but I had my dog and the Thunder started and he was not going to let that happen but that uh along the shoreline uh it's very deteriorated because of inadequate measures to protect the shoreline and that you know you degrading the shoreline in bulon Creek there but that's that's not that's not mine that's that's the state I didn't touch that I just think I I appreciate commissioner McDonald's concern for some very strict requirements and deadlines here in light of Prior behavior and I do I do not know the best way to handle it this point can I just say one last thing that's not true that the trusses were up for 6 months I put those trusses up you know before that previous to that they were on the side of the bill and they were covered the whole entire time when I put those trusses up the panalty went up right up immediately and I I probably have pictures from that you dated pictures from that let's let Mr Waters be your representative and let him do the talking we're trying to work out a deal here for you thank you so so i' I've got the and I don't know about the swell of the drainage all I know are the documents the legal documents that I've had a chance to re review and the 1990 1995 plat of this subdivision does not have a drainage easement from our neighboring property through our property there are drainage easements that go kind of that split lot one and lot two down lot three but that's what we have to rely on whether there was a Swale whether there was a Swale and they were permitted to to drain over these Lots I think that's a separate issue that all of that can be reviewed and analyzed as part of the building permit application because right now we're stuck because we've realized that we've got this uni a tile we're not able to to pull a new building permit update the existing permit and move forward we're just in this kind of Hiatus either we get this Unity atti released and we pull a building permit and proceed with construction which is going to allow your inspectors to go out there a whole cooperation of a holistic approach of how this was constructed where we're acting in construction and do all those reviews the alternative is this Unity title is not released and we're still in that same position and the two units have to be combined in some fashion so this simply addresses a problem of what's now been 30 years of a Unity a title that combines three Parcels that should not be combined anymore it does not address the Integrity of the building it does not inte address the structures on the property all that's going to come through a separate means of of the property owner applying for a new building permit having all those in inspections to make sure that he complies with every single rule of this of this city and if not you've got consequences in code but for step one for us is to have this Unity title released so that we can start that next process I would like to see us leave here with this solves commissioner McDonald so and I understand by the way I very much understand your position in that Mr Waters but here's the thing is we released the unity of title without addressing these other issues we really don't get another bite at the Apple other than just fines and uh and I'm looking here at the Timeline memo and when of course one of the things is was not disclosed to the city uh when about the unity of title when the uh lot split was requested back in I think 2015 is that what it was um was though there was never a lot split requested there was a board of adjustment for a waiver of setbacks and the property owner said that was doing a lot split okay and so so there was so there was things that were done improperly there and we have but what I'm more concerned about is the timeline so we have a stipulated order don't get it completed another stipulated order or that's why the and so as we're not completing these um timelines uh unless we put a time put some strict timelines in I mean uh it with consequences I I don't think he'll get it done Ag and his history yeah his history has been to not get it done um I've heard from the neighbors uh and I want to have a have some teeth into the agreement uh into the resolution that says if he doesn't get it done then there's a consequences and like I said we do have precedent for this we did that with a this on a property uh where we required the uh property owner to uh uh through a stipulated order to uh get a property completed and up The Code by a certain point of time and it involved involved a lot there was a lot split involved with that as well and that house ended up coming down because they didn't get it done and so my experience tells me is if we don't put the teeth into it then it doesn't happen I have people come back the neighbors and come back and and uh let me know about it and no uncertain terms and I I'm not going to you know I'm not going to go this route again like to suggest something I actually suggested a timeline and that was one year from the issue of the permit the new permit that I appli for so once the new permit is approved then I have one year to finish the outside is what we talked about that's what I mean even you know when it was how long will it take you to get the permit if we approve this tonight well I I'd like to put in for a permit like right away like I have everything I I could go one year I would consider one year from the permit but I want to have to see the permit appli for within a certain amount of time and issued um within a certain amount of time because one of the things that I see over and over again is that people apply for permits don't provide all the necessary information and then they complain that they didn't get their permit and so I don't want make it a year from tonight just yeah and that's I think I agree with that is you still a storm and the storm water does he have to address remedies does remedy some of the problems he's created and he has to address the storm water as well yes within that one year how I would say more quickly than that but I mean I'm I'm fine with that I whatever needs to be done I mean I had all the Eng ering every that whole site plan was the correct elevation even with the the whole entire thing cuz we have a storm water ordinance for single family homes now the distinction is that our storm water for single family homes requires you to retain your storm water on site right I am 100% sure the storm water from Village Oaks is going to sheet flow across that driveway and through that where where the sale used to be it's going to shift back to Mr Long's property and flood the closed in portions of his property unless there's a storm water pipe put in that can capture that sheet flowing water and have to the creek it's already in there already there you you got a permit and build a storm I didn't put it it's it's on Robert Long's property cuz you're going to have to do something with that storm water so what do we want him to do yeah having just gone through this myself for a little Adu on my property yeah I mean that retention of storm water was a you know complicated calculation and this particular this particular matter could be easily resolved by just agreeing to put some kind of grate at the edge of his property line between his property and Village Oak that captures that water and runs it through a storm water right across that grass area I showed in the picture and let it Bumble up right at the edge of the mangroves right there at the edge of peton Creek the storm water would end up in the same place that it's been directed to go the whole time it wouldn't be significantly expensive it's already there not on my property but it's on a lot no we're talking about one on your additional yeah you need to put one in so that would be one of the conditions as well well I don't know so when we talk about L three I don't know if it's there or not I don't know if somebody went in and put it in but it's just a c the water coming off of Village Oaks and directing it somewhere I think I think that's what I would ask if there is a storm water control issue as opposed to forcing it to be placed on lot two if it's already on lot three and maybe that's sufficient with some other cleanup to address the problem something to satisfy that issue right I I'll be Satisfied that long that it's resolved to the satisfaction of our uh engineer and building official uh and I do want to put in a u one year from today and I and then a bond for demo I think I I'd ask for a little bit more time because the idea with the one year from construction is that there's going to have to be some cleanup and some you know it's going to take a year with construction I think the we'd like to I mean I think you can apply within 30 days right I can apply for the print within 30 days and then I so so and for what it's worth I don't think the building official or anybody in the city was ever looking for a completed Co we're just talking about closing in the house like if none of the bedrooms inside are finished okay just so that the neighbors have a perception that it's finished not the actual finished out inside it's been a tarpaper roof for yeah so we need to have the exterior the structure completed storm water storm water done we need to have a so we'll give you I'll tell you what I'll give you 30 days to get your permit and 12 months to complete the to complete that work and uh a bond for say 20 yeah $25,000 bond for demo there part of our inspection and within this process also look at the trusses in the roof is that I think I think the building department will do that um the only thing I would have a concern with is the 30 days to get the permit because if there's a storm water design we're going to get outside of that yeah no I think it'd be 30 days to apply and then I think that's the the hiccup too is because once we get into it because we don't know about the storm water issue and how to retrofit it to address whatever needs they have but that's my only concern of real and substantial progress on the storm water and you come back to us uh I will be open to listen to that problem if there's if there's a but I want I want to see real and substantial progress um and we but you but if but if there's a if you know if you get into and there's some engineering issue uh then you need to come back to us and and I think that would be fair agreed yeah I mean I hated that it was without sing you know stop can't put so I'm gonna I'll go ahead and make a motion thank you yeah so I'm going to make a motion that we approve this conditionalized and the condition is you have 30 days to apply for a permit uh 12 months from the 12 and an additional 12 months to complete the exterior of the property uh landscaping and storm water the uh and that uh if it is not complete then at the city commission's discretion we can demo the property and you'll provide a $25,000 bond for demo what happens on day 31 if he hasn't got his permit in then he's out of compliance well he has to apply he land apply for it if he hasn't apped on1 the unity of title is conditioned upon Him applying for the um B the permit so in the event that it didn't if a condition proceeding didn't occur it wouldn't perfect the recision of the unity of title and and what are we doing about the substantial fins that he's currently facing that's not for tonight okay there'll be another Avenue for that but again I think we have come into compliance before we can address those is there I'm sorry is there a time frame from you know if I submit the perit I'm going to do a right way but from the time you know the permit is issued you know like from the time I put it in town has to go I think he has to successfully apply because there's a lot of work involved in so he has to successfully apply you just can't submit an inadequate oh it's not my fault if you're Mak if you're working and making substantial progress and there's a delay for something that is reasonable you can come back to us but it needs to be legit and not you know when I look at this timeline memo over and over again so I don't want that's what I want to avoid fling this was motion and we do have a second um Mr Waters I'm going to ask the lady to come up you all can sit down um I have I have that Troy McDonald made the motion who made second um Miss Miss Taylor Bara Taylor I live at 320 Southwest Indian Grove Drive just um behind Mr stank fit's property and um we've been looking at this for many years now it's been 10 years in the making and um it lays a lot of it on on me bar Taylor it's on here I've only lived there for 3 years so we have eight magistrate meetings that we've been to eight minutes that we've been to all on Mr stanich's promises that he's going to do this so now you're going to give him another year another year which each time he gets to a certain point he has something to blame it on whether it's covid whether it's me whether it's his dad passing away for whatever reason he comes up with with something that he he can't complete this job so now all of us that have been looking at this home and those trusses were uncovered up there I did live there and they were not covered with anything and now that the black stuff that is on top of it the toar paper is also all peeling off the grounds around the house are all caving in supposedly from the drain water that's not supposed this is where he lives in a flood zone a FEMA major flood zone this is where the Mr the the gentleman whose home flooded a number of times he lives in a major flood zone major flood zone his house has been doing going underwater for long before Mr stank ever put his house on that so it's nobody's fault it's just Mother Nature that's what she did she put a major FEMA flood zone there for maybe when the city of Stewart made that roundabout themselves of that water because they did add that so that we'd have a flow of pton Creek those trusses are on there with no hurricane ties for all of us the windows are wide open there's trash bags on and we've been looking at this for years and years and I've purchased a home with my hard-earned money and I've lived there and this is what I've had to look at and it's just not fair to the rest of the community it's not not fair to any of us around there now he's going to get another year and we keep giving him more now another month and then after that another year and and and how long does it go on for what for what what's going to be the next excuse that we can't get it finished and so then we're going to come back to here I see excuse after excuse and part of it's the city's problem you all have passed so many things along that somebody didn't get the approval for this or somebody didn't get the approval for that or Mr Meyer gave him all of his stuff without asking anybody Mr Meyer also miss Taylor we do want to get this solved and I agree with you I don't want it to go on any longer and you shouldn't have to suffer anymore so hopefully this man gets one more chance or that's it thank you thank you I have nothing further except it's Our intention to come into compliance and with this direction it allows us to take that first step to pull a building permit and there's there's consequences I appreciate your thank you Mr Waters okay oh yes always for thank make go sitting here listening now you know I built my Bob and I we built the house 51 years ago I just had a lot of construction work our building inspectors come right away they're great and I can't understand like as that woman said I I wouldn't want to live in that neighborhood remember there was one over by the river that was was a shack and that you you no year is too long I mean if that I had to live in my house and look across the street and see it you're being way too generous if she hadn't stood here and told all of them you keep giving them breaks and giving them breaks and he's not doing it we built the house on Flamingo Avenue August and we moved in that February so it doesn't take that long and right now with the construction we just had done a roof an air conditioned impact Windows was only three months and a lot of the material had was on you know we um well you order it it doesn't come in right away no you're being way too lenient think of not just this woman of all of us in the city is stored do we want this in our neighborhood and our inspectors in the the city are great I mean uh when the construction did something it got denied and the gentleman that came from the inspection office and met he said I'm sorry I said no you're doing your job and that's what our inspectors they're doing their job but I really I'm you five have got to have better backbones and say no we the people can't he's had all these breaks I mean next thing you're going to be giving them the money to fix it let let's think of everyone of us he's in the C thank you do is there any conversation around tightening up the time frame or any amending to that motion or we did or we feel good about a year it's a year there was already a motion on it I think ask if we wanted to amend that and tighten that up or if we no I think that you know we have to be if we're going to put it in the condition of tearing the house down we have to make it um make it reasonable and I would like to make it three months but I don't think that would be reasonable from a perspective of withstanding a court challenge so got so the only I mean the permit is the only uh intermediate timeline so after that until that was a little bit confusing for clarity is it is it currently a code enforcement magistrate order with a fine running at $250 a day so every day that he doesn't have it finished a $250 fine runs that I'm sure when it's complied he's going to come back before this board and ask you guys for some forgiveness on that fine if he is lack a days of about it and ignores your comments tonight I doubt you're going to be very sympathetic to the reduction of that fine when it comes time to hear that issue so there is a sword hidden in there because he's gonna I mean $250 a day it's already well over $100,000 it's close to 200 is it's at actually at a just shy of two it's like 228 right now and it's currently on homesteaded property but after the split it will be Homestead heste propert suggested a strategy that could circumvent that unfortunately is that correct well it's possible but I think that you know there's we're going to just have to it would be difficult it would be difficult to record the homestead because you'd have to live in the house to Homestead it and if the house never got a certificate of occupancy I doubt that the property appraiser and tax collector would recognize that as where you lived so I think Mr Martell is a okay we're going to have a provides a solution and that there's going to be very little leniency regarding that ongoing fine okay we're going to have a rooll roll call okay vice mayor Rich yes commissioner Collins yes commissioner McDonald yes mayor Bruner yes this meeting is thank you thank you --------- Park Board member Collins here board member McDonald here board member campenni here board member Brookville here community redevelopment board chair ceny here Vice chair brickville here board member kovis board member Hawk board member Mist board member Moser and board member Noble United States of America and to the rep for it stands Nation indivisible and Justice just have that just have theuse you you com he wrote arle I don't really care we all PA can I get approval of the agenda so move second we have approval we have a second um mayor does it matter we don't have a quum on the CR crb there's no action items for them today anyway okay any Ence okay we have a motion we have a second we have a roll call uh we can do an all in favor on that all in favor I approval minut audience we have a a motion in a second um anyone have a comment see none uh all in favor I I and do I do approval the second one no no okay that covered both of them okay thank you um if we could get an approval for the second one yeah I mov to approve the CRA minutes we have approval we have a second I say none all in favor okay now we going to comments from the public have any comment any comments from the board members I have one Speaking from the crb yes sir I think we going to lose three more members after this meeting I don't know Mary will tell us at some point it was It was decided time ago that the failure to attend the joint meeting okay but there are people who have Lo who have missed two meetings in a row this would have been the Third meeting right but it's I understand you've made that clear we also have been meaning and we're I think it's on the annex CRA agenda to address with you the issue of having the crb members um attend this meeting the truth of it is is that the intention to have two members of the crb meeting with the CRA anyway effectively provided that notice and if there was going to be a need for quarterly joint meetings then there's no no reason to have members of the crb on the CRA and so it becomes duplicative but when you talk to the crb members and I know for example uh one of the newer members he drives from Jupiter for him last week they had a crb meeting and on the crb meeting was The Heirs program and the burp program so they would have done the exact same two presentations that you guys are going to do today they'd have to sit it but wouldn't be allowed to vote and then well I think that's something we can discuss at the next meeting but my point is once again your members because I think Mark and I are at large are not showing up to meetings they're actually you're appointed by the C board but you guys are invited to vote today and participate historically their feedback has been we don't get to participate in the joint meeting why do we need to go M Mr Morel can I just finish my remarks and you can correct me just no I'm just letting you know they're not here to speak for themselves you're raising it when they're not pres well I'm raising it because the SE the the County Commission is here the city commission is here and the CRA is here and I'm just saying that it makes it very hard at the crb meetings because we fight to have a quorum so I'm going to suggest that you you tell tell your PE your people come and if they can't come then appoint other people I agree with you Tom this is twice crb member and so I get it even when you change it sometimes it doesn't work out but it is summer time people can't be gone and on vacation I understand that but yes and and like Mike said we need to bring it up where they don't have to come here well um one of the questions I have is uh I think that the the problem is that is that board's is a volunteer board and people are coming from different locations if you're having it in the day you know if you're having it at 4:00 or whatever that's you know people have to haul from work someplace they might not be in the area they may live here but they're not here all day long um you know I would suggest that if we're having problems we might look at changing that time to an evening time and we could bring that up yeah I think that might might help a little two items and it would probably be good for residents who want to come and you know find out what's going on too that might not be able to make it during the day Madam mayor yes uh Mary could you send all the Commissioners their their appointees attendance records I think that mine has been showing up but I'm not positive I've been talking to them about the meeting so oh uh for the regular meeting not maybe not the joint meeting today but they'll do so i' just like to know so and I notice it too I I I hear you I notice it when they're here or not I look I look so okay yes ma'am Miss um Jordan yes hello sorry did you want me to go ahead I can't see you so good afternoon I was going to read it oh you can go ahead then maybe I should it's our action is um three applications for the business Improvement reimbursement recovery uh fiscal year 2024 you want to go ahead and read that of course Madam mayor thank you sir resolution number 10 d224 C a resolution of the board of community redevelopment agency of the city of Stewart Florida authorizing award to applicants from the business Improvement grant program for fiscal year 2024 providing for for conflicts severability providing for an effective date and for other purposes thank you good afternoon CRA board members Jordan Pinkston CRA program manager for the record the community redevelopment agency's business Improvement program is an incentive program designed to encourage visible exterior improvements to existing commercial properties and to encourage private investment within the CRA the program provides a reimbursement Grant of up to $10,000 of public funds per property to match private funds to pay for the design and completion of property improvements funds are appropriated annually by the CRA the projects are evaluated based on four categories including overall visual impact of the property with the proposed improvements how the project relates to the Urban Street and improves pedestrian walkability private investment to Grant ratios and improvements that help to preserve the historic building the the program aims to encourage shade over pedestrian walkways improve conditions for walking and pedestrian activities and we amended the program guidelines to encourage businesses to voluntarily upgrade Landscaping as part of the overall improvements the CRA did public Outreach to encourage the businesses to apply for the program Outreach efforts include an electronic newsletter to the city's contact list Distributing Flyers to local businesses mailing postcards to local business owners and social media platforms forms such as Twitter Facebook and Instagram it is important to note that applicants have been finding it increasingly difficult to meet the minimum application requirements for this program therefore staff extended the deadline twice this fiscal year to acquire more viable applications the CRA received a total of nine applications of those only four applications are eligible to be considered for funding for fiscal year 2024 none of the applications met the minimum Point requirement for funding however after working extensively with the applicants staff feels comfortable moving forward with each of the following applications to offer financial support in funding these business improvements our first application is located on Lots 7 through 15 on Southeast Oola Street the applicant is requesting Grant assistance for repaving and restriping the parking lot the total estimated Improvement cost will be $24,000 $4,825 the existing parking lot is cracking in multiple locations and the striping is almost non-existent proposed resurfacing will include leveling Base Rock a concrete por restriping and new curb stops the proposed improvements qualify for funding under our program guidelines the improvements will have a visual Urban Stree and economic impact the property is in the old historic downtown district as it is a high priority area for this program the proper property is adjacent to Old downtown undergrounding Improvement projects and is a contributing historic building to the historic downtown district Dedication that the CRA is pursuing staff recommends approval with the following conditions the applicant shall install landscape screening on the east side of the parking lot exit and the applicant shall install screening to cover the air conditioning units on the south side of the building facing the Colorado in the second app is located on 400 Southwest 7th Street the applicant is requesting Grant assistance for improvements to enhance the curb appeal and meet new code requirements by adding a monument sign the total estimated Improvement cost will be $1 19,259 there's currently no signage in front of the building the applicant is proposing installation of a new custom double-sided stucco Monument sign with illuminated LED light boxes the sign finish makes the monument impervious to rot termites and moisture for a maximum durability the sign will be cemented into the ground with galvanized steel pipes it is important to note that the applicant is also making significant landscape improvements to the property as you can see the landscape plan consists of new palm trees shrubs sod Mulch and flowers the improvements began in March and are expected to be completed by the end of June the total expected expected Improvement cost for the Landscaping is 51,00 ,45 these proposed improvements qualify for funding under our program guidelines the improvements will have Visual and economic impact the property is in a high priority area for this program and the monument sign is part of a larger landscape project that will improve the exterior of the building and serve as a catalyst for redevelopment activity in the neighborhood staff recommends approval the next application is located on 420 Southeast Martin Luther King Jr building Boulevard the applicant is requesting Grant assistance to enhance curb appeal and create a tranquil Sanctuary area with entryway railings decking landscaping restriping and a carport the total estimated Improvement cost will be $22,300 the existing property could use a facelift to make the entrance more inviting and comfortable there is currently no seating for visitors or screening to block the exposed utilities and trash cans proposed Landscaping will include flower beds to the entrance of the property surrounding the property lot and facing MK Boulevard Flowers and Greenery include evergreen shrubs purple impatience purple Salvia and hedges will also be added to screen the exposed trash cans and air conditioning units with additional shrubs flowers and Landscaping will enclose a new raised Deck with benches for guests to have a tranquil space to relax outside the current steps to the building will have railings added to ensure the safety of visitors a carport will be placed on the property to cover the Mor's business vehicles from the floor to Sun it is important to note that the applicant's property is adjacent to the MLK complete Street Pro complete Street project this project includes elements that will create shared use pass for both pedestrians and bicyclists on street parking bike racks high visibility crosswalks a midblock plaza area street lights and Landscaping I've included a snippet of the improvements proposed on MLK in front of the actual property these proposed improvements qualify for funding under our program guidelines the improvements will have a visual Urban Street and economic impact the property is in a high traffic visible area and a high priority area for this program as mentioned the property is adjacent to the MLK complete Street project and will serve as a catalyst for redevelopment activity on the corridor staff recommends approval and then the last application is located on 1295 Southeast Dixie C off road the applicant is requesting Grant assistance to improve curb appeal and functionality of the property to install a new fence the total Improvement cost is $14,500 the existing fence is 360 ft and most of the fence borders Southeast X the cut off road the fence is in disrepair and improvements are needed the proposed fence will be included will include clude a 6ot privacy vents with new board on board and galvanized post 8 ft on the center which will ensure a more stable and longer lasting fence the improvements will have a visual and economic impact and the property is located within the Grant's priority area with a fence AB buding along Dixie Highway cut off the applicant has already completed Landscaping in front of the building as you can see in the property does not have sidewalks so no shade shoes would be recommended along this road staff recommends approval the community redevelopment board voted unanimously in favor of approving all eligible applications staff is Seeking a motion to approve resolution number 10-22 4 CRA authorizing the award amount for each application for fiscal year 2024 burp Grant cycle are we looking for an uh for a motion on each property separately or on the total I don't know that's up to your discretion yeah I'd make a motion to uh to approve the uh staff's recommendation second on all of them on all of them yeah we have a now can we do discussion for just a minute yeah we will I've been told that I'm one that beats a dead horse so here I go again but but you know we had a hard time finding people that qualified for this which tells me that it's not really hitting the mark in some Manner and I think the problem that I see with the program is that the amount of money that we award per project is too little for somebody to really make a big difference unless they're already doing the project and we're just giving them some extra money and I don't know if it makes sense to give them extra money if they were going to do the project and could afford it in the first place you know I I think in that we need to look at this program to see if these grants should be bigger more focused on what the staff can go out and find potentially go out and find locations where we can make a difference and and then we can because that's the whole purpose of CRA is to is to improve the blight uh what whether it's economic or Visual and and increase what what we're doing there so if we're going to spend the money I I would rather see us find properties already and go out and approach and say look would you want to would you be rest in the Grant and then see how much we're going to match on it but giving them enough dollars that it makes sense and it's not just throwing money against a project that's already they were already going to do I've always been been for raising it and when I went over all this I thought well maybe we could just do uh it would be 30,000 they they uh um we raise it to 15 they they put 15 in it and making we can give up to 15 if we want to start smaller but I I do agree and any of the other Commissioners have any comments on that oh I want to acknowledge that that Aaron Hawkins is here yes thank you thank you madam mayor I'd like to know how the decision is I'd like to know how the decision is made so you say you have received four applications actually I think you said you received more than that but only four call of nine nine so none of the applications meet the minimum Point requirements so are there four elements that are each equally weighted how how did you how was the decision made sure so in this so there is a metrics that we go go by which is included in the application packet and that's how we determine the scores but in this case um there were incomplete applications so meaning two of the applicants didn't have their updated business tax license so I I couldn't move forward with that um other one had um did not want to move forward because they couldn't get drainage quotes So they pulled their application um another one was for awnings which we're going to be addressing that in the coming months with um we're doing the business Improvement guidelines and another one was not giving me quotes so so that's why it goes down to four that I think we're still eligible even though generally accepted standard metrics in C for these types of projects or we have did the crb come up with them or yes it was brought before the crb and CRA I believe throughout the years before my time but we've been using those metrics for years now we've changed the metrics almost every year for the past decade I believe did did you say that the awnings were are they hings are currently not allowed I I don't know I don't remember so so with this particular application that came for they were not allowed because they were just recovering existing awnings and right now with the burp guidelines only new awnings are covered under but that is going to be amended we're in the process that's coming forward soon too but at some point we have to determine whether this is a good use of money and I've never thought this was a good use of money but so how much do we throw at the wall for a few businesses instead of trying to take that money and use it for infrastructure in the CRA I mean I I think Mark is right they would probably do this work without this money and this is nice that we're giving it to them but is this what we want to do or do we want to use the money for something else we're going to reduce do it and keep giving more money well it's only going to be several the same not the same several businesses but four or five businesses that are going to take advantage of so is it better for us to use that money for infrastructure in the SE there was another question I had that I instead of that we should do three in keep it at that a little more money three you mean three businesses so so we we decide three businesses out of I don't know how many are in 200 three are the ones that we're going to subsidize they win the lottery and everybody else who pays into the CRA gets nothing I'd rather use money for every well if you look at the improvements and you were going to do 30,000 Improvement cost to get up to 15 none of the applicants spent 30,000 so none of these projects would have reached that man man can I just ask an additional question how many so how many businesses have benefited from this project over the course of its existence is what I wanted to ask 50 not including this year and how many times if you had to estimate we had repeating businesses maybe four or five off the top of my head so really it's like 45 businesses rather than three or four cuz you got to think about it long term it's over the course of the time that we're supposed to be improving the C building the wealth of the area and you know helping these people do that so it's it's not really three businesses a year but you know I mean it's been what 10 years around that so it's 45 businesses over 10 years it's been going on since 2016 okay I think one of the problems is are we focused on businesses or are we focused on landlords because you know a large portion of where this money is really going is to landlords not necessarily to businesses so that's another Factor so if I'm a business downtown and I want to put a new awning in you know basically I got to go talk to my landlord and see if my landlord's going to put that in and so anyway I I just think this the staff has a better handle on what kind of improvements we can make that will actually add value and get us more bang for the buck you know if I have a problem with spending a dollar to get a dollar back you know I mean it's it's it's just a change but if we're spending a dollar and we're getting $10 back I'm okay with that and and I think that's where I think this needs some tweaking I think that that the staff needs to to help identify businesses where improvements to their property whether it's the business owner or the the landlord is going to make a significant impact on the dollars we get to keep that's all I'm to come up and he does have the knowledge and what people want yeah so we do use uh our community services department um to help us ad promote the program and they do go out and identify businesses that could benefit from the program but those businesses might not uh be ready to invest in their property so they're not coming forward it's the people that have been saving money that they want to make the investment in their property are coming to us from for a match and even if they're asking us for $5,000 and they're providing $5,000 they could use um their own funding their own financials to do other improvements so it's not just like okay this is I'm just doing minimum improvements the the match helps them to do additional improvements to their property so I think it's a benefit to to property owners and the CRA I have one more question yes um sorry do you want to go first yeah I would just like to follow up so Tom when you indicated that the metrics are changing on an annual basis you know what is what are you trying to achieve by changing those metrics does it go to Mark point it comes to the C board change met but on the crb board sta looks and says perhaps we need to change this and allow this not allow that because as you just said they have the extra Fe that's fine you know there's two I I look at this as two different things the CRA board and the commission says spend the money we have to spend spend the money according to the rules if we have a bigger discussion and the bigger discussion says should we be spending this money on this that's a diff that's different and so I I'm always going to I'm always going to if staff re makes a recommendation I don't think this is working let's do this instead I'm going to say yes because we're could to spend the money I'm asking now whether we should and in response to the question of what CH crb a few years ago decided that paying for impact Windows didn't enhance the community because if you were driving by in a car there would be no way to determine whether it was an impact window or not and if you're trying to beautify the area the CRA plan the type of glass didn't really make a difference as far as beautification it was just enhancing the individual's business now there was presentations during that same discussion that will actually it does beautify over time it's a better product ET doesn't wear as much but the the the board at the time reached consensus that they did not want to support hurricane window SE and then another time there were several people because code requires downtown businesses to have the awning out to the sidewalk provide shade and then board said well yeah but they already have framed awning therefore if they're just replacing the canvas that's a repair of an awning that's not a new awning so they voted to make it so anybody that already had an awning couldn't get it replaced that was a modification along that theory that would mean that like the guy that already has the fence wouldn't qualify for a new fence because he already had a f it's just a question of what the what is the soup dour like you know sometimes you just feel like there's a lot of particular thing and as a result the the boards reacted 40 you look at the CRA plan itself the attention of the CRA is it's a pro promise from the community to the outward whether it's landlords or tenants doesn't matter but to the community to say look we're going to draw a circle around this area we're going to designate this as a focused reinvestment area city is going to reward you for committing to putting your business there or buying your property there and we're going to reinvest all the money and that's why the general fund regulations to create the tip can only be spent CRA to fulfill that promise I agree with Mr ceny to the extent that this particular project you know the burp program doesn't necessarily Change the World by any means as far as the amount of money spent but the converse of that could be said as well it doesn't bankrupt the CRA either and the amount of money that's spent is a token of the appreciation of the CRA to say listen we don't care how big or how small you are you're in the CRA we want to make sure that there's opportunities for people big and small and instead of like to read a program where you might tax credits like that this is just a smaller one the smaller guy to be able to say look we're going to try and help you out but again it's all policy and the board can do whatever you want the biggest issue that I've seen since 2016 as it relates to this program is fundamentally the mat and that is there are certain times that certain people know they're going to make those improvements they wait to do it till now now they get the match they do it and they were going to do it anyway there's probably a list that the board could go around and identify properties within the CRA that you say you know this these houses are blighted or this area is blighted we could identify these and say there's no match we're going to give you $55,000 or $7,500 to fix that light if that was the intention of the board I wanted to say um also that some of the the landlords they're never going to piix it up they just don't want to and some of the blighted buildings the landlords um I don't think they would ever ever fix up so my goal is to with with a little more money is to give them that incentive to fix the place up go ahead commissioner Capen um I mean yeah it doesn't matter uh Aaron was really first oh go ahead I just had another question about um I know it's about beautification and that's really important but are there any figures does the C have any figures on how much over the span of this program's existence has come back in the Tiff like how much of the investment has accounted for the increase in property values so I actually did do some calculations based on the board's recommendation at the last meeting and by using the data provided by the property appraiser we can analyze the assessed values prior the year prior to the improvements um for example um for fiscal year 2022 those who participated in the burp program had an increase of 28.8% in their property values so every year if you go through and break it down there is an increase there's never a decline um since 2016 I just pulled that particular year because there is a lot of applications um as an example um but I have an entire spreadsheet I can share with you yeah that'd be great um is there a breakdown of like dollar spent per dollar return through taxes um we only have what the project cost would be and then what our contribution would be like that that total um and then the assessed values but I don't have like a dollar for dollar if that's what you're asking just wondering thank you um board member compan well I'm just going to make one quick comment you know the other thing I would ask us to think about yes this is a quick one ask this thing about is do we have to give them the money couldn't we loan them the money I mean why couldn't we loan them the money and then earn a return on it could be small 3% 2% interest or something like that and and loan it to them and then um and you know then they could do bigger projects and we would have because part of the problem here is in downtown is financing you're talking mixed use buildings you're talking older buildings there's not a lot of money out there it's either it's either direct investor money or it's SBA you know so and a lot of this stuff doesn't qualify if it's mixed use SBA doesn't qualify so part of it is people have to wait until they can refinance to get the money to be able to do some of this stuff if we could provide instead of you know a blanket Grant if we provided up to a certain amount as a loan I think we could accomplish more I don't think $110,000 is a lot of money but I don't know if I would want to um myself do that because I would be afraid I wouldn't get paid and I'd end up with some mess on my hands but do you want to say something we would need staff to manage uh manage the bond or Lo loaning and things like that um but I do want to mention that we are breaking down the program so um you know we're going to make it more uh eligible for for applicants and also have a landscape program that they they're eligible to receive $5,000 so you're talking about up to $155,000 that a property owner can get so it kind of goes with what mayor is saying up to $15,000 to benefit property great I like that okay well if there's not anymore um yes sir well I I just think first I don't know if Mr mortell is a socialist a communist or a free marketeer because he really can take any position and I guess that's his training as an attorney I I I don't actually have a position I was just pointing out historically that's kind of what I've heard the board say and I always have a little levity in my meetings um but you know I really I I I believe we could do more for this by taking this money and taking a section of the CRA and say let's spend it right here especially for commercial the commercial areas let's spend it here so that whatever we could do it we could do break the CRA into six or seven different areas and say we're going to spend $75,000 or $100,000 on another person's property on the CR no in the CRA for our infrastructure infrastructure is really something that brings back value or secondly I wouldn't have a problem if we did a if we did a smaller Arena program for these individual areas because if we're if we if supposedly these businesses the 45 businesses that have been touched have a 28% I think you said increase why not touch a lot more businesses by spending the money within a specified area and increasing it because of course $50,000 but if we could do 1502 200 $250,000 well we can give them either a read read tax break or we could just do the infrastructure ourself so I I'm just for trying to help everyone not just those that happen happened on progam so Madam mayor yeah this is a very wide ranging discussion and in the context of the current motion for approval in second I'm not sure it's appropriate it's a discussion yeah um um anytime we're giving money to an individual be it a business or an individual I am more than enthusiastic in support that the city should be evaluating the effectiveness of those gifts or those grants as you know when we did Main Street I was I felt that we should be forced to review that on an annual basis so I think chair Camp Penny's suggestion is a very good one to go back and take a look at this program what were our goals you know working with panal have we achieve them is there a better way to do it and uh a comprehensive and detailed discussion on those issue it sounds like your group is well informed here Aaron see certainly seems to be to understand what opportunities there are and I would welcome a uh suggestion from the crb be to the commission regarding this program both in it has it accomplished what we wanted it to and what improvements can be made so I've Tak you take we are coming for the board with the c with the burp Amendment the landscape program so that would be a good point good time to discuss and we have and we'll have a another year correct in between the next time right so the nextal cycle o great okay well I do have a um there's no more comments I'll get U comments in minut but we do have approval by Mark commissioner Rich do we have any comments from the public that would speak on this would like to I see none we'll have a vote a roll call Board member Collins yes board member McDonald yes board member bville yes board member Camp peny yes Vice chair Rich yes chair Bruner yes I just want to comment that we only have one other crb member here but I think he added quite a bit to the discussion on this particular item so that's why it may very useful to continue to have crb members besides whoever they to your knowledge I'm not going to say that okay all right we're going to move on to um the airs property assistant program and I'll let read this all right attorney resolution number -224 c a resolution of the community redevelopment agency of the city of Stewart Florida approving implementation in administering of The Heirs property assistant program for properties located within the community redevelopment area providing an effective date and for other purposes thank you P Ganda CRA director for the record so the CRA is proposing a new heirs property assistance program to provide legal assistance to clear title and properties and help families stay in their home so what is airs property um it refers to properties uh that's passed on U by inheritance from the owner uh next to Kin or uh relatives without clear title um this often happens when the owner dies without leaving a will or a state planning and it's transferred to multiple family members uh sometimes a property owner chooses to leave the land to multiple family owners uh members but the property has not completed the formal transfer of the title and so this causes to have a cloudy title meaning that they can't show Clear Proof of who the owner is and um they're multiple owners so their fra fraction the property is owned by fraction of uh family members so why is this required um it's good to have clear titles for bank loans federal grants uh such as the cdbg uh grants uh FEMA disaster assistance home insurance obtaining any e building permits uh filing for homestead exemption which can have uh property taxes savings um on properties so why is airs property a problem uh what happens is when you have a property uh we have incre these dilapidated homes um vacancy due to absentee owners unable to obtain loan to upkeep the property lack of Home Insurance um so you can't cover repairs or rebuild homes in the event that there's a hurricane or fire uh causing damage to the home difficult to receive aid from government assistance programs um they're vulnerable to losing their property because of unpaid property taxes and then it often affects the community vitality so why do we want to address this uh we want to address this issue because we want to keep um the family in the we want to keep the home in the family and building generational wealth um we want to keep the people in their homes preserving existing housing stock stocks um can help to upkeep the property and living conditions uh increase Equity uh Community preservation and Revitalize a local tax base so here's some data um I was able to get some data from County's Property Appraiser's office on Air's property uh this map shows that we have about 30 one Parcels that are airs properties within the CRA um I do want to point out that in my presentation to the east Stewart historic advisory committee and crb I did report that there were 46 properties um that were air properties but after reviewing the list I did find that there were some errors because just because they had the word estate in the name um it was accidentally picked up in the search query so um I did confirm with the property of Appraiser's office and removed some of those um Parcels that were picked up by accident so uh in reality there are 31 Parcels within the CRA with with the airs uh listing 31 down from 46 there were 46 because um they had the word estate in it so when we did the query it just picked it up but there it could be just a real estate LLC or something like that so we removed those out of the list so um there are actually 31 properties within the CRA and of those 15 are within the East Stewart neighborhood um this number did not change uh from what I presented to the boards um earlier this month um so the CR is proposing a new airs assistance program to assist homeowners U to gain clear titles um eligible properties have to be within the CRA it is a voluntary program so the interested homeowners will have to apply for the program um in the at the CRA um the eligible applicant may be qualified to receive legal assistance at no cost to them and the program is intended to assist homeowners through the probate process so that they we can clear the prop um clear the title and transfer uh the property to the rightful owner um uncontested ma matters meaning um that if there is some dispute by by family members who the rightful owner is um we're not going to get into that uh we just want to help clear um clear the title through probate process um the program like I said does not cover cost to litigate uh rightful ownership uh the cost can vary depending on the case but um based on some of the research I did it's estimated to be approximately $1,500 to $3,000 per case upon approval of the program the C will obtain proposals from qualified providers to uh for probate legal services to assist these Property Owners gain clear title uh the C will manage the program uh will review and accept applications once approved the C will contract uh contact the attorney or legal firm that's been selected uh through the RFP process and begin working with the applicant this program is um you will see it in the budget for fiscal year 2025 on budgeting $25,000 for this program and you will see that in the budget hearing in September um some of the recommendations made by the crb is that the program should be limited to properties with assessed value of $300,000 or less and maximum of $33,000 assistance per property so I looked at the assessed value for 2024 for all 31 properties and all of them were under 3,00 $300,000 except one uh which had an assessed value of $345,400 30 um that one is in the Harbridge the residential Condo building uh all other properties are residential except one property is commercial uh Warehouse unit um so today I'm looking for feedback on the on the program and um and and some uh discussion on crb's recommendations and uh we'll be requesting approval of resolution number 09-222 c for the Imp mentation of the program thank you very much P Madame mayor start Madam mayor i' I'd like to just uh have an opportunity to to make the motion on this uh this is something that's been near and dear to my heart for the last 10 years maybe maybe 15 um I think it's the main reason that um East Stewart to a large degree has been left behind in the last two Rises and property values we've had because if you can't get clear title to your property you can't borrow against it and even even though there are properties on there that aren't specifically listed if your neighbor can't improve their property it's affecting your property and so even you know so I think that that real estate values and wealth from Real Estate transfers is a huge way to create and generate wealth generationally and I think E Stewart has been left out because of a simple titling problem and so that's why I I really appreciate what the staff has done I know Mike had spent a lot of time on this issue uh a number of years ago looking at things and and I appreciate that and I'd like to have that opportunity to make that motion when the time comes mayor do you want to go if you made the motion I'll second for discussion before we can discuss all right we got so made okay so first of all I like the program I think it's a good idea but I have a few concerns uh I've been involved with a lot of these through uh as a process server and also assisting my wife in these kind of probate matters of doing research for so the the properties that uh have the estate word theate that means they've already opened up an estate so it's already being probated so I think there's a question is if they're already probating it and paying for it and moving it through the process there's why would we jump in if it's already going through uh now unless it's now maybe it's stalled the other issue is what happens I think is that when someone dies without a will it and our attorneys can correct me if I'm wrong on this but uh there's actually a state statute terms that goes to uh and there's a family tree kids and then if someone dies in the grandkids and so forth and what can end up happening is you can have multiple heirs and then everybody wants to get paid and so then you can end up causing the the forced sale by starting these uh of the property which isn't necessarily a good thing um he does homestead transfers if they declared Homestead it transfers the Property Transfers to all of the aors immediately upon Declaration of Homestead but I think the real problem is the ones that don't have the word estate in front of them that means that someone's died they never transferred it it's in grandma's name but grandson is living there her uh two generations later and th and those are the ones that we don't even know about because they've never opened up an estate thech was sayate came to someone that actually title as Morel real estate holding right but she also the estate I saw through the list there was they narrowed it down to the estate of John Smith in estate of not a holding company but there is the property of appraiser can provide us with the actual properties that they have where somebody was the owner and now that person is deceased and it's still that person's estate and then if you look at the dates and I hope that they're on this sheet so we can look at the sheet and find we could say anyone that dat test certific more than 5 years ago that's I guess that's what I'm kind of getting at uh is and that's what we've done and and Troy I think part of it too is that a lot of this stuff is transferred outside of the estate what we're talking about is quit quit claim deeds and things like that yeah there's and and and so what's the more of the problem is you can't get a title policy that's really what the issue is well yeah and that leads to uh quiet title right and that's the the next thing I need to get at is I don't think uh something that has serious title issues $3,000 is not going to cover the uh the cost of the the action to uh do that it's uh I've been involved in a lot of T titles over the years uh in my process serving world and and when you start tracking down 25 airs um you know especially and the other thing is uh I want to make sure that we don't end up um doing it for people that bought tax fees you know as a business you know they bought a tax deed and needs a quiet title and we end up doing their quiet title for them so uh but I think I think that you're absolutely Mark everything you said is absolutely correct I think that it's a that we should I just need to make sure that we narrow it down so that we're actually helping the people that need to get helped and that um we're not opening a can of worms for them that ends up we go and we pay $33,000 and all of a sudden now it's going to need another $15,000 of legal fees even if they're it's just because they have to track down 32 heirs that are living all over the country um and they don't have any additional money to pay for it and now they're in a court action they've filed the court action and they have requirements based on the court requirements as well so how long have some of these properties set and and no one has acknowledged or anything I mean is there's properties that set over there 10 20 30 years I don't have the record of that I did check on if they paid taxes over the years and I did find that they've been paying taxes that was a lot of good questions see the issue I think Becky is that it's the tax it's not there are many I think there are a number of these properties out there where people are living in them right now and and nobody's arguing about it it's just when they go to borrow money they can't because they can't get clear title because something has happened transfer has taken place in a prior generation that wasn't legitimate or that wasn't done with title insurance and so there's no confirmed title and and Troy's right it's probably a an expensive process but I I do think that if we're going to spend money on the goal here should be to get it to a title policy in other words we need to get it to the point that at some point in time we had clear title we had a title policy and we need to get to that point and and I think we need to square some of these properties away I just ped the first one as an example yes sir on March 28th 1996 the property appraiser entered an order determining Homestead for viola Ingram so 1996 was the last time it shows that in the sales history and as a result it's been probably being occupied by an heir of that Biola Ingram as commissioner McDonald points out there might be five other heirs that um have an interest in it but as I'm reading the it pulled up the order just on the property appraisers it says on the petition of Helen Christie in order determining Homestead Real Property the court finding that all interested persons have been served proper notice of hearing or wave notice thereof the material allegations of the petition are true that the descendant was domiciled in Martin County FL at the time of death that the predent was survived by a surviving spouse and by lineal deant and at the time of death the decedent owned certain real property on which the decedent resided is a judge that the following described property the undivided one half interest of that certain parcel of land commencing its stake blah blah blah giving the legal description paral identification number constituted the Homestead of the decedent within the meaning of section four of article 10 of the Constitution well I wanted to um say that um with p and and and our attorney Mr bagot that we're not going to spend over 3,000 you'll know what to do and to guide us but there was one thing when you read that Miss Ingram I knew Miss Ingram very well and that was um that was a Habitat Humanity home how do those work when you but that was years ago once you get tit okay all right well if we don't have any more um Madam yes sorry I I I did attend that e his advisory committee meeting I'm surprised the amount of concern that this program so just want to be clear this is completely voluntary no owner or family member has to participate in this and take advantage correct correct correct if we do go through this and it does get straight out you do not have to sell your home that is not a requirement of this program um and to Mark's point it's not just loans you can't get you're not eligible for homestead exemption you can't get disaster relief funds you can't get homeowners insurance so the ability of us to have this and and then if there is a contest if we do have feuding family MERS members we're not going to get involved correct correct that's apparently the rules that we've set forth right and we're also I guess limiting it to $300,000 or less than assessed value now that would be the assessed value on the property ra website which obviously is not market value but um and I I did speak to a colleague who does real estate and probate in the area and she indicated on an average house of about 400 grand um that the title policy about ,000 that would eat up a lot of grand but she also indicated a lot of those would require more probate you know AC and I don't know that there's any direction for us to provide title I mean I think the intention was to do I to identify the owners and make it so that there's a you know to finish the estate these people are deceased and there's a summary Administration that needs to be done in order to transfer the property to The Heirs you do a summary Administration right you say you open up a summary Administration you say there's three heirs there's nobody in dispute they all agree that they're The Heirs and therefore you do the probate that transfers that property and does a deed that's signed by a judge transferring the original deed from you know whoever the owner is to their three children in three undivided interests or whatever it is but but I think that's why my point is it shouldn't just be about Estates in fact I could care less about the estate as much as I care about the clear title I clear more about getting a title policy that somebody has going forward and and that's the key there only once you have a title policy can you who gets the title policy out of the free air there's one person living in the house and two air I understand I understand that that that would be a contested situation you're right but there are situations out there where they quit claim deeds two generations ago and there's a person occupying it but they don't have a they can't get a title policy because nobody can nobody can go back and determine the clear title on because it was never it was never cleared through with title I don't I don't know that this that this list of names will F will qualify for that what what this really was was the situation where generationally somebody might have owned the house in the 60s and then their kids started Living with them and then they passed away and their kids cons some one of the children continued living there and now that person has had a child and they're living there and it doesn't know no one has any real ownership to it because there wasn't an estate done I don't know that the city's in a position to be to buy ins wait wait wait to be buying the title insurance and that's exactly why we put a limit of $3,000 at the crb and this could be a very good but it's not a it's not something that's going to solve everyone's problems and it's not meant to at the same time Mark wanted to include title insurance but if there's money left over okay and somebody wants title insurance it's part of the $3,000 great but at the end of the day this is only to help those that really come to the city and say we don't know what we we can do about it and this is no different than someone coming to the city and saying we need a new fence and a new awning how can we how can we get that well I think this is a much better program because it's actually helping people who are lost and so I think you have your Safeguard at $3,000 I I it's not meant for everybody and it's completely voluntary which means they have to have be included in I Madam mayor I I agree the only reason I was bringing up these issues I just want to make sure we know all the have the other issues covered because I do think this is a really good program I actually remember talking with uh a name from the past ber well Bernie Malone actually I spoke to Jim chrisy and I never really spoke to Jim about it but I certainly spoke to Bernie Malone about it 10 years ago uh and I've actually even talked to my wife about it because she does these types of things about how it would work um and again my my actually concern is that 3,000 isn't enough I think that uh uh I think that the going rate for a for a summary Administration is 3500 to 5,000 so again you know everyone should have some skin in the yeah right yeah it's a $3,000 match right no match it's just 3,000 go up to 3,000 if they want to go to 5,000 and then put the yeah we're we're the first 3,000 but we're the experts so we can guide them and I think that's the whole point here we're going to make sure they have an attorney that's not going to you fly by night take money and run right and so maybe yeah they probably have a couple thousand that they could use getting a good titles to go out and get a mortgage of 100,000 right I was going to Echo the same concerns about the requiring the title insurance um I also wanted to be clear so it's not just the identified airs properties that would be able to take advantage of this program right there could be someone else out there U that we didn't catch so yeah if we find that they are airs property they would take advantage of this program and then I wanted to propose actually increasing the uh limit of the assess value to 400,000 and I wanted to show you why though if you could go back to the east Stewart map okay so the houses to the right that are in the little culdesac type neighborhood that's Sherwood and then towards the south of the um Park is Sierra Heights that neighborhood and Sierra Heights both kind of operate within East store these communities kind of act as Tandem and they suffer from a lot of the same issues as E Stewart does but the problem is that if you look at the houses in those neighborhoods some of them are more are newer you know EAS houses we're looking at built in the 60s we're looking at houses here built in like the 80s but they suffer from the same issues where a past generation somebody didn't get a clear title and now we have several airs or we aren't sure about who owns it so that's the only reason but they are a little higher up on the price price by about $50,000 so, more than right that's the only reason I would I always say the assess value and not the market value and so those and so the generationally owned homes that have been there for years uh most of the homes in East Stewart for example you look at the assessed values in like the 30,000 40 you look 30 40 a bunch of them are bunch of them I there's very few even over a 100,00 uh on that list and even like uh a home I owned for 24 years when I sold it the assess value was 150 but it sold for a lot more than 400 so right no I know that's what I'm saying though is that the assess value of those houses are higher because the market value is higher yeah but they're not they're not they're not even reaching anywhere near most of them the 400 they're reaching even the 300 I bet we could probably pull up any one of the hous again I think we start with a program if we see it's working we can always expand it let let let's I agree Let's Help the most needy start here and just I want to make I want to make sure that that this still does include let's say Mike's example if the person waits till they die yes then it's going to be probated and somebody's going to have to deal with it and and there's going to be issues and there's but what's happening in those cases and happens in a lot of cases is about two weeks before the person dies they sign a quick claim deed to their son then they sign another quick claim deed to their daughter then they and so and so a bunch of these things get filed and and so it's not being probated because they don't own it anymore it's just been passed but who is it passed to so that's why I say clear title should be the goal a title policy should be the goal that doesn't always indicate it's an estate it could be somebody who tried to bypass their estate and passed that ahead of time mark That's A Quiet Title not a title policy you actually that's a whole different legal proceeding where then you have to go and file a lawsuit to quiet what they call quiet the title and so then then that's all and that happens occasionally in these probate matters as well but what that is is a proceeding where they file a lawsuit they serve all the potential owners or interest in the property and then the court determines who has title and um what their vested interest in and at that point the title is clear from that point on uh and you can get a policy again let's start with what we have just explaining what that I have one comment um $300,000 is that for FIS for assess value for 2024 that we're going to lock it in because for instance if this program is still going on for two three years we do have some properties that are a little over 250 and they could go above well I think for right now let's we're going to do it for this year we're going to see if we have we may have nobody so so let's just get it done for this year and then you can bring it back for an amendment okay okay good deal all right so we do um any any more com comments from the public we have a by uh and I'm sorry just one more Point yes P now you are actually going to reach out to these to the properties you have identified correct yes just with the mailer we'll do through notices right and make sure you emphasize this is voluntary right I will okay we have a motion for approval we have a second by commiss I mean board member c um so Ro CRA um chair Bruner yes board member breckbill yes board member McDonald yes board member Camp pany yes board member Collins Vice chair Rich yes okay this meeting is a Jed