##VIDEO ID:w0tJdJGp_9c## e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e and we were not changing any of those unless a a development or an improvement is being made by the property owner at the time we're talking about this and then we'll put it to what the new plan is going to be for their property so essentially there's there's uh five walk first of all there's sidewalk here already it'll be um if there's not a curb there and if there's any sidewalk that needs repair if there's any problems with the sidewalk we'll correct it there'll be a crosswalk here uh and then the sidewalk in here is is there but it's it's flush with the pavement so we're going to raise a sidewalk in that area um and then uh we made uh in this area of third third street there uh we did leave an area for parking so we did add some parking again we we U we don't know at this point whether we're going to lose the parking on the the north side of the road or not but the fact we're going to leave it there and our plan is to to Mill and resurface it but not do any other improvements to that over on that side um we're not going to be able to widen the sidewalk on that side which is what we were hoping to do uh but we are going to make sure we keep a sidewalk on the South Side so uh basically this becomes parking there'll be some more parking in here this property here the old creative Auto site uh they have plans they've turned in plans for an improvement there in a minute we'll show you the rendering of that and then essentially uh so in this area we planned on something that would kind of make the the roadway look a little nicer uh they're going to be brick pavers there'll be pervious pavers uh at the same time we plan a drainage system in here that will put have underground storage so all the P puddling that you see out there will be improved upon and basically these will be perious pavers in this area uh there'll be a sidewalk still in front of creative Auto and then as you you have the crosswalk here probably the papers at the crosswalk will be a different color um we kind of show we go down these side streets like California and and Camden um in Third Street we may just stop at the pavers depending on how how much money we have and so forth or stop at the crosswalks but essentially we show papers and majority of the areas we show trees and so forth in here there will also be lighting so if you've been by there at night she'll know that it needs lighting so there's some safety improvements with lighting and as we come up in this area most of this will not change other than obviously milling and resurfacing of the asphalt uh in this area but then when we come to Joan Jefferson way right now we get a lot of short circuiting of the roundabout we're going to put a little more of a curb into it a curve so that the traffic actually comes into the circle and then has to kind of make a a r right to some extent to get across so hopefully we can minimize the the cross circuiting of that area the traffic across here again uh lighting we put some Landscaping um I'm not sure if there's anything else I want to say but this kind of it was a rendering we we had completed um essentially uh shows you that's creative auto back there and they plan on having a their plan is for a a um a restaurant in that area and outdoor seating and so forth uh obviously you can see the sidewalks we talking about some trees uh you can see lighting with banners on them again you can see the crosswalk here and again most of the sidewalk will have the coral colored staining that's out there in downtown um so um we again uh we're trying to accomplish make sure we accomplish the items that are in the grant as well as what the CRA would like they've already had studies done uh by Treasure Coast Regional planning Council on some improvements that we made in this area but again sidewalk improvements crosswalk embellish some parking uh basically fix the pavment marking adding lighting adding landscaping and adding storm water improvements those are some of the the recommendations for this area um again uh we don't know when what when FC will change the parking over there but we're going to anticipate that possibly they won't and at this point we're not doing any improvements in there other than the milon and resurfacing but at the same time if that ever happens we would recommend on this side that that sidewalk be a little wider but we're going to make it wide enough so that that can happen in the future um again I think that's about everything we're talking about but if you have any questions I don't know I'll take any questions you have now okay um sorry about that I had to make sure my grandson got home out of the storm so sorry I had to that's more important than this by but anyway um do we have um any questions from the members uh yes Mr kaer you just said uh are you're kind of putting on hold anything that has to do with like the FEC decisions did well what we are still going to leave that parking there um I think at one time we were uh planning on um moving the parking over and putting in a sidewalk along the fence that's out there the broad on fence that's there they're not they're telling us they're not going to make allow us to do any improvements in that area other than maybe overlaying we're still that's still up in the air too but the fact that the M are certainly not going to let us put a sidewalk along the railroad track and what and what did you say would be the difference with bright line coming and maybe bright Line St station not being here well that information hasn't been conveyed to Bright line yet or we don't know with the bright Line Station coming they might need to modify the existing track so they don't want to um allow us to make any modification in case they need to modify their track and we there's a 25 ft clearance requirement for safety zone so the the on street parking right now is within that 25 clearing Zone um but they haven't asked us to remove it so we're just going to keep it but they could ask us to remove it at any time that's all the questions I have right now um I have a few um first I want to start by saying what I like about this um as somebody who walks and bikes through downtown a lot Dixie is a street where um there's a lot of vehicular speeding and it is not comfortable for pedestrians one because it's hot two because like you mentioned the sidewalks often are flushed with the street and fre when you get the car zooming by it just is really scary especially if you have kids like I do um I think tapering those Lanes down to 10 ft is going to really help traffic calm along the street um same with the pavers we've got tons and tons of data in the transportation world that brick streets slow cars down so I think that's a great addition um as well with the sidewalks um and I'm seeing some bulb outs um in some places and I was curious about um why they're not everywhere um or is that like when you get down the road and you get into actual construction documents um you'll be trying to add in more yeah um you know we we started with some here but unfortunately we're going to keep the road that's there okay um and then we started going down the side streets a little bit and so that would probably be an area we can add some green more green uh you know this property has a lot of driveways and they use them so that'd be a little difficult there we might be able to get some more green in the front here as long as we don't affect the the driveways I think they they tell us if they at least let us put some Greenery there yeah um obviously we if we were able to keep uh parking we had originally proposed some more Greenery in the FPC parking spaces again not knowing that so there are there are some opportunities you know this site plan hasn't been finished yet to be honest with you we hope to get some areas on the corners here for sure and I'm sure they would love some Greenery around that whole property so we have some there um so to answer your question yes we can add more Greenery at this point I I didn't want to assume that we were going to be able to yeah I was actually asking about the bull bouts less for the greenery and more for um pedestrian visibility at the crosswalks right and just to educate everybody a little bit when you have bul bouts that extend into the street uh where your parking ends before a crosswalk that allows a pedestrian to step into that bul bout and be more visible to a driver so that way um when they're going to step into the crosswalk they're seen by a driver instead of hiding behind a car um so that was more of my concern there I think is as much as you can neck down those side street entrances the better just everything that we can do to get cars to actually go the speed limit here um would be awesome um let's see do we have the ability anywhere where Drive driveways are really wide to make them a more appropriate size and I'm not saying close any driveways I'm just saying you know if it's 40t long if we can get it down to 24 feet is is that possible I'm not going to talk about this are because they use quite they use their driveways quite a bit and as you know they they're small sites each one so it's kind of hard to to do some of that and obviously when you try to get your trucks or anything in a delivery sometimes hard um this side this site probably will have a reduction in driveway with okay because okay I don't think they plan on pulling into the site they're M parking around the site so I think we can we have opportunity there obviously we didn't have that much in here that side from there but I think this site probably has a little there may be an opportunity here this real estate agent she's fixed her property up pretty nice and then I I think there's probably two properties there well actually there's a total of three properties there we may be able to reduce one of those okay awesome we'll look for those opportunities we get closer to the final wonderful I'd love to see that um and then the last thing is and I've all but harassed been all about this but um I I think any opportunity that we have to put in a street tree it should be one that cash shade obviously we do not have the room here to be putting in you know a typical live o but if if we could work with an Elm or an oak species that's more upright um anything the I know we've been planting a lot of tabby buas in um downtown but they've got really weird trunk growth and the branches are really strange and I just don't think they're a very appropriate Street tree um something more of an ornamental so that's my last comment thank you that's good comment and uh one of the things on the trees I wasn't certain of you know I think we can get about 1 and 1/2 ft from the curb but this gets a lot of traffic I'm thinking of putting the trees as well as the lights on the back side of the sidewalk I think they'd be a little more appropriate there you know sometimes we really like the the trees in the greenery right up the curb but there's only 5 foot 5 foot sidewalk I get what you're saying and I I think any way we can get a tree is great so eron um well the only thing I was going to ask about was the parking but I think you already mentioned you uh was not going to change the parking situation that's correct we're not Chang we're not we're parking along the FBC right away that'll stay the same because they're not allowing us to touch it at this point or to many improvements in it we're hoping we're going to be able to Mill and resurface it just to get a better texture on it uh but then um this side there's there's really no parking in this area along the road um and so we're putting some parking this street here will be one way right at this point here it'll be one way going to the West here so there'll be some parking spaces in there pre created what street is that Joe uh that's that's going to be Third Street that's third okay so it'll be one way there pardon me it'll be one way there it just in that in that section from here to here okay okay and after that it's two-way and there's parking both sides there but yeah this just in this area here we felt to put some more parking in that location so we got some parking there and then there's a there there's an opportunity for one two spots right here here California this leg between third so there not a lot of new spaces but there are some spaces if we you know as you know one of the things we were doing when in the last rendition of this is we were trying to make up those Spaces by putting parking and throughout here and restriping it and so we we came pretty close to what the parking level is they're not right here along this line here but they would been mid in here but they had also got into one we traffic on certain areas and so we're not planning that at this point pel may do it with other projects but not with this right okay well yeah I think this is a great idea I mean Lord knows we need that area needs safety improvements um I remember so I came to one of the meetings you guys had before and you said you were going to try to do something about the intersection down by Colorado where there's that uh three-way that three-way intersection where people aren't sure which direction Direction the driver is going to choose to go is that still a part of the plan or no no no we took that out and I know she has a video that kind of shows what you're talking about but the people didn't want us to change it that would have that would have required oneway traffic okay and we didn't we don't have the support for that from some people that came to our public meeting but I know the no board at that time reluctant for us to do that so I'm I'm not against it I'm just saying that we didn't seem to have a lot of support you know I was just wondering if it was still a part of the plan or not but thank you I got a couple questions one um up at um at the roundabout at sailfish sherle with Joan Jefferson you know we got a serious a serious potential traffic issue there in that um people coming over the tracks should think think that they have the right away and they don't and if there's people coming it's only a matter of I would say less than a year that somebody's going to get plowed because they got stuck on those tracks and there needs to be something we really need to change the RightWay there I think because you know the traffic that's going up that way they have the RightWay even to those that are crossing the tracks and most places you've got the rideway when you're crossing the tracks at at confusion Corner we have the RightWay when we when we're crossing the tracks but we don't there and it's going to be it's going to happen because it's just um I mean you just and you start going that's a long track anyway and you start start going so I'm hoping that we could do something up there to um to either either stop that or you know put some you know change that traffic pattern or do something I I don't know what you can do other than that Joe do you you well I mean one of one of the things and again it's a balance know here we are trying to narrow things up to keep people from speeding and and one of the benefits of having space is it when somebody is caught in that situation on the track for example they can move forward in One Direction or other and fill in a space that and so that's that's kind of the situation there and it's the same problem here so I don't want to tell you that there's any one way we can do this um we are looking at more arms and so forth to to make sure people don't at least know that where the arms are coming and where to stay away from the track there are a few safety issues that we are working with FBC with now can we can we put some kind of a rail stopping the traffic going that way when the train's coming through in other words some I I know when I mean this goes all the way back to when I think uh Das was here we were talking about that and he said well you know maybe we can put up a sign or something but then we just kind of forgot about it and I mean that traffic really should be stopped when that gate you know when that gate goes coming across this way yeah well the traffic that's going this way going up you know they don't have to they don't have to yield to the people coming across and really when the trains coming that should be a yield right there there should be something that stops that traffic temporarily right here while the Train's going through yeah exactly so that it can't go whatever direction we can look for something for that because they they have they have signs for things like okay I mean there something if we do something there I think we'll save a life um and then the other one is in there someplace there's a little street that goes like nowhere I mean it it's like right next to where the the garage is that the old garage is right here well this street is short but that we are going to leave two way and this is the one where there's people do take the left here and get down to us one and go up us one from there at third right yeah that's third right no I know they do that and that's but there's that on the other side of that building of the other side of that garage right there right there there's kind of a little street that doesn't get any use right now is it can it be parking can it be we're gonna Park on it we we are yeah all right so um all right thanks um and I think that's all the questions I had uh do we have any questions from uh I guess we take questions from the public at this point does anybody have any comments or questions they want to anything they want to add before we take their parking lot or take their driveway or take their at least giving you a warning first right no um any other questions Frank well I've got some comments I think the voters in the city kind of uh asked us for a big dose of reality for a change that hasn't been haven't been seen for a long long time from 30,000 ft we all have to understand that and their Infinite Wisdom the Greenies back in the 80s and 70s drove I95 so far west that it's unusable so we have don't have that for north south pathway for the worker bees from Port St Lucy to Martin County and Martin County and their Infinite Wisdom said yeah all you worker bees you go to Port St Lucy because we're going to make it very cheap to buy a house up there as compared to here so now and what really drives us home for me is when I go down south to bokeh and and places like that and I see that everything east of 95 and and then us one and the tracks it's just it's not great but it's doable because you've got all that monstrous North South traffic on 95 and US1 is livable and A1A is I guess what we're trying to create here but what I'm saying is we these are apples and oranges because of who we are because of the rivers because of the gated communities and because of that great decision to drive I95 Way Out West the big picture is we are the city of steart but we're part of this community and A1A is a north south Corridor and I would argue that if you want to make it safer don't make it appear that it's a great place to go biking and walking and some sort of shangra La just because you're in the downtown Stewart you will never stop people trying to get North and South in the quickest way possible and we just have to live with [Music] that when I first pulled it up and I see the pavers my first thought is oh wait a minute that is a heavy thorough fair and we're going to put pavers in there so I argued a little bit with some buddies mine and one guy brought up how well the papers out at the flan are holding up so I did the research I couldn't find anything that said that pavers are more durable than regular asphalt and U but I did find a couple articles and basically pavers are high maintenance man just high maintenance I mean from and this the best information I got was from a paer company and the best they could do to defend papers on and the article was everyone can go to it heavy traffic impact on P durab ility long-term effects and I'll make it short to optimize the lifespan of pavers under heavy traffic we must incorporate diligent maintenance robust design strategies and the use of Advanced Materials and Paving techniques and at the end of this long article it just basically said that you better be applying a sealer every two years you better do immediate fixing of any dislodgment or breakage to prevent further damage damage okay and then as far as the modern designs it all come it all basically comes down to the base that you're putting them on but it said even after the modern designs and the great advancements in in the bases it still suggests repaving in five years so this isn't reality for for what's going on there I would I would disagree with that Frank I don't think the plan is to try and get less cars driving on the street I think it's to try and get them to drive the speed limit and I I I appreciate that you did the research there I if you drive to Orlando Florida you can see Brick streets that are over a hundred years old and they're in great shape and they're the original bricks um and I think we mentioned you were using brick and not concrete papers there is a difference there I wasn't done I wasn't done I apologize um but making the streets more [Music] narrow again to create this illusion that safe to walk and bike in that area that's not reality all right we could we could talk all night uh I won't support this with pavers that's for sure thank you Joe just a question uh are we talking pavers or we talking stamp pavement well uh I've done both and I know we've all done both but uh the ones that seem to have the best look over time is the payers but like you like you know we you're going to find do for example they would rather do stamped concrete or stamped asphalt to be honest with you uh so the fact of the matter is is we're proposing papers here and it's consistent to the papers that you see throughout downtown um I know we have them in front of my building up on Flagler North flager with the whole intersections pavers and that gets a lot of heavy trucks and so forth so the the they they've been there well since 2006 so they've been holding up pretty well I haven't had seen any problems with those papers I will tell you when the pver starts failing because we've had them at the foot of the old Roosevelt bridge and when they started failing it was a problem they you know it's really hard to get you really have to take your time and build papers properly from the start so I'm not telling you that there's that there hasn't been problems with papers out there there has been you just have to put them install them properly the other the other comment I'd make Frank relative to and I I don't disagree with a lot of the stuff you say but um I think actually making the streets narrower will take traffic off of that street and that's what happened in Colorado right that's exactly what happened in Colorado people said why are we going to do this we're going to we're going to reduce traffic uh speeds and and what we actually did is you know we actually made it a lot safer and we moved we moved cars who didn't belong on that street who were really just passing through um so I'm sure we'll probably have some benefit like that from this too people will decide look that's it's easier for me to just go back out to us one if that if that is your goal okay to make getting from point A to point B North and South harder for the entire Community then yes have at it and and I think to some degree that is our goal within it's to make it better for our residents so we don't have that kind of heavy traffic and to keep people who don't necessarily need to drive downtown from downtown let's leave them on us one where they're designed to move a lot of traffic but anyway that's just you just my comment on it but um do we have any other comments from Crown okay uh do we need to you yeah take if if you can recommend approval of resolution number 74-20 24 for City commiss approval okay um motion to approve second uh well you're the motion to approve I can't make the um motion to approve second okay uh discussion any further discussion on it uh all in favor I would need to do you need a roll call okay let's roll call it okay Vice chair bville yay board member Moser yes board member Hawkins yes board member mccristal no all right the uh next item on the agenda is uh 55 Southeast aola Street um who's up on that [Music] okay whatever we're ready all right uh good evening board members uh for the record my name is Chris mccraine the principal planner with the development department uh tonight I'll be presenting agenda item number three submitted by flaminia LLC for a major Urban code conditional use petition uh for the existing professional office building and and a proposed single family dwelling the 6 acre parcel is located at 55 Southeast Oola Street uh and is designated by the urban center zoning subdistrict the downtown future land use designation and is situated within the uh city of Stewarts uh community redevelopment area uh in accordance with public notice requirements outlined under Section 11.02 2.05 of the Land Development code on August 19th 2024 the applicant mailed notices to 56 adjacent Property Owners within 300 ft of the subject parcel uh to provide details of the requested major Urban code conditionally use petitions and the date in time of tonight's public meeting uh in addition the applicant did post two signs on the subject partiel one fronting Southeast seminal Street and one fronting Southeast alola Street um as mentioned previously the subject parcel and the properties to the south east and west are zoned by the urban center zoning designation and the properties to the north are designated by the urban Waterfront um just to point out too because I failed to do so earlier the property is bounded by uh Southeast seminal Street to the north um Southeast Oola Street to the South and Southeast Denver Avenue to the east um subject parcel and all the surrounding properties are designated by the downtown Redevelopment future land use designation um this land use designation allows for uh low density and multif family residential office commercial recreation lodging public facilities conservation and mixed use developments so on February 29th 2024 the development department received applications for a minor development plan and a major Urban code conditional use which was submitted by Leo and Associates on behalf of flaminia LLC um the the applications were to subdivide the subject parcel and construct a single family dwelling within the uh non-residential development site for the existing professional office building which is also known as The Forum building uh the proposed subdivision and Amendment to the existing professional office site um for the park working and the subsequent development of the proposed single family uh dwelling required administrative review and approval by the development director um following review by this community the community redevelopment board and approval by the city commission for the requested major Urban code conditional use which is a request to deviate from various uh code requirements and standards um as the as a condition of the minor development plan approval and before the issuance of a site permit or building permit the applicant would be required to receive approval from the city commission for the plat to subdivide that subject paral so according to Land Development code section 3.0 106 the city commission may Grant a major Urban code conditional use if the application demonstrates consistency with and furthers the implementation of the Land Development code the CRA Redevelopment plan and the comprehensive plan and it will measurably improve the form function and traditional neighborhood characteristics of the urban code district um the major Urban code conditionally use petition um may be requested for relief from the following Urban code requirements including density permitted uses setbacks uh location of parking location of building and structures curb Cuts historic buildings uh pitch roofs in the downtown district stories building heights location um parking location within a building envelope um formul business and Architectural requirements prior to administrative approval to subdivide the um well not subdivide to construct the um single family home and a proposed subdivision both the existing professional office building and the proposed single family dwelling require approval uh to deviate from certain provisions of the urban code and those Provisions include uh parking requirements for the professional offic office building um payment in Li of parking for the prop professional office building uh increased driveway width for the single family dwelling um increased front and side yard setbacks for the single family develing uh balcony requirements for the single family home construction of the sidewalk uh maximum Building height of a fence and location of a pool as an accessory structure so the applicant is proposing to subdiv provide this 6 acre parcel to create a uh .16 acre parcel fronting um Southeast seminal Street and Southeast Denver this would be the new um site for the the single family home it's approximately located within the um rear portion of the parking area there uh and then the remaining 44 acre parcel encompassing the existing professional office building uh would front Southeast oila Street and Southeast Denver Avenue so this depicts the uh professional Office Buildings uh future parcel boundaries the 044 acre lot will include the existing 10,895 ft professional office building and 25 off street parking spaces um the existing refuse collection area and the associated Landscaping the proposed one .16 acre parcel which would front Southeast uh seal and Southeast will be developed as a two-story 5,500 ft detached single family home um with an attached garage and an accessory Pool and Patio I'm just going to go through the conditional uses um just kind of explain the the request and then what the code requirement is um so the first petition is for requests to reduce the number of required parking spaces for the existing professional office building by six total spaces uh so according to section 3.01 3 of the city's Urban code uh one parking stall is required for every 350 square ft of gross floor area for professional office uh uses uh the applicant is requesting to utilize only the leasable floor area to calculate the required parking uh whereas the Land Development code uh chapter 6 requires that gross floor area be used in calculating uh required parking uh relating to floor area so the petition would request an adiation of six required spaces for the urban code the applicant is also requesting the city commission to wave the payment in lie of parking requirement um and fees for up to three required parking spaces which would be paid into the um steuart payment in lie of parking trust fund according to Land Development code section 3.01 3 subsection f and section uh 6.01 one9 instead of providing up to three parking spaces required for any youth located within the community redevelopment area a developer May pay into the steuart payment in Li of parking trust fund a sum of money that is the product of the number of parking spaces required but not provided and the current cost to provide a single parking space in the CRA according to the applicants submitted uh pyop calculation um 8,000 and $72 36 would be required to be paid into the uh steuart pyop trust fund for a single required space um and just to go through how this is calculated the um the cost to provide a single parking space in the steuart uh CR is based on the Public Works director's estimated cost per parking space which is based on a 7,200 s foot 22 space parking parking lot uh it includes the cost of pay car stops Drive aisles drainage Landscaping signage lighting and the land value um and then the land value shall be determined by averaging the Property Appraiser's assessed land value per square foot of five sample Parcels located within 1,000 feet of the subject property um and this is the calculation that was provided by the applicant um so it would be uh $872 36 for each space and up to three spaces would equal um $24,275 the applicant is requesting to allow a 13 1/2t wide driveway apron on Southwest seminal Street and up to a 22t wide driveway onsite according to the urban code standards for urban center zoning District a 10-ft wide driveway may be allowed if no alley access is available in the rear side of the lot and although no alley access is available the proposed uh corner lot would front uh seminal Street and Denver Avenue on street parking is not currently available adjacent to the site on Southeast seminal Street or Southeast Denver uh the applicant is requesting to allow the balconies um to overlook the proposed single family dwelling patio and pool Courtyard uh whereas the Land Development code requires the B to face the um the street rights of way on on this lot it would be Southeast seminal Street and Southeast Denver Avenue instead the applicant is proposing to include balconies overlooking the proposed Pool and Patio and Courtyard as Den noted here in this figure uh the applicant is also proposing to allow a minimum 7.34 ft front yard setback as measured from the proposed 5-ft wall I'm actually going to go to this figure because when I'm reading all this it might be easier to follow um so the code requires um that the what does it say that so the code requires per section 30103 that the front building facade is required to be constructed parallel to the street along the front property line with a required build to line zone of zero feet um whereas the proposed building design would allow for a minimum 7.3 ft on the front yard set setb back as measured from the proposed 5T wall um a 10.22 um foot front yard setback as measured from the northeast corner of the proposed single family and approximate 33 foot setback as measured to the proposed attached garage um in the front and the side setbacks it's important to note that um they are inclusive of a uh future twoot easement it's a twoot wide pedestrian easement for the future sidewalk expansion adjacent to the uh front front lot on Southeast seminal and Southeast Denver and I'll expand on that here next so according to um Urban code section 3.0 104 when a permit for new construction or renovation is is uh issued the owner shall be responsible for the installation of a minimum six foot wide continuous sidewalk along the entire length of the parcel uh Frontage that AB buts a public Street the applicant is requesting to weigh the requirement to construct uh a six- foot wide sidewalk it is requesting to provide a twoot wide easement for pedestrian access and also for the sidewalk to be constructed by the city at a later date um a 4ot wide sidewalk currently exists adjacent to the subject parcel uh and the applicant would be required to finish that that sidewalk off to meet the uh six foot wide requirement um as you may know the the city CRA is currently working to improve um Street Scapes on uh Southwest seminal Street however there are no plans or designs at this time to improve the streetcape on Southeast seminal Street um so staff would not support this code deviation and would request the applicant be responsible for constructing the sidewalk um the applicant is also requesting uh a decorative wall in columns between uh 4 to 5 ft in height to be constructed adjacent to um Southeast semal street according to Land Development code section 3.01 4 subsection p uh fences located in the front yard shall have a maximum height of 4 feet along the front and side property lines to the front building facade um along the side property lines behind the front facade and along the rear property lines the fence May extend to six feet in height um the applicant is proposing to construct a a concrete wall and columns to Shield the proposed Pool and Patio located in the front yard and also a decorative metal gate uh adjacent to the proposed single family driveway the blue line on this is just Den noting the area in which uh the fence would be located along the side and rear it's it's uh positioned in the back of the house so uh and then the final petition request is to allow an accessory structure to be permitted within the front yard setback and also allow the structure to be located between the front building facade and the front property boundary so according to our Land Development code requirements for accessory structures states that no accessory structure shall be permitted between the front uh facade of the pront the principle building and the front property line and shall only be constructed in the side and rear yard subject to a minimum 5 foot side and rear yard setback from the property boundary uh on Corner Lots the side yard setback is uh increased to 10 ft uh the city of Stuart development department has reviewed the major Urban code conditional use petition and recommends the applicant be required to pay the fee for up to three required parking spaces into the steuart payment in lie of parking trust fund so the city of Stuart May construct additional parking spaces in the CRA and be required to construct a six foot wide continuous sidewalk adjacent to the Future lot fronting Southeast seminal Street and Southeast Denver Avenue and also to dedicate the twoot wide sidewalk easement to the city of Stewart for pedestrian access um this concludes staff's presentation the applicant has pres uh prepared an a presentation as well um so following that that presentation both staff and the applicants Representatives will be available to answer any any questions all right go ahead anybody I did good evening uh for the record my name is Morris Kady I'm a senior partner with the associates and also a certified land planner and I can tell you um I've been working in Martin County for over 40 years and this is the first application I've ever been uh to request one single family home usually it's a it's a lot more than that but I can tell you John is not the typical client um he's he's uh he's not doing this to make money obviously he's he's he's he's doing this to build his dream home his his forever home um he's been in the downtown area for over 35 years his family so he is a a fixture in downtown but ideally he would like to live and work in downtown and that's why we're here today um so we're you know we're not really messing with the existing Forum building which is on Aela Street um so we're just proposing the one residence on Southeast seminol Street see if I can figure this out okay so this is the existing site um uh the proposed Site Area is where the 16 spaces are currently located and then the uh the existing twostory office building has 25 spaces including eight parking space underneath the uh second floor which is on the on the north side of the building um I'm sure you guys are familiar with the building and thankfully John uh did some major improvements here recently over the last couple months he painted the building and did some beautiful landscaping so he it's all and I think the the um the photos I presented in the at the beginning of the year were the old buildings so I made sure to go out there today and take take pictures of your improvements done because it looks fantastic but this is this is the you know Denver on the right of course h on the on the left but I want to go back a little bit in time because um I think there's a little bit of confusion of when the building was constructed and also when uh John's family purchased the building it was actually purchased by his father in 1989 um but you can see that the area that we're looking at um were actually two single family lots and all this was platted at single family lots and um at one point in time and in 1983 there was a single family home exactly where we're proposing it um and we I believe the other structure on the site was an office but we're not sure but we do know that was a single family home because we know who actually lived there at the time and John John is is familiar with the person that lived there so sometime between 1983 and 1986 uh this office building was constructed by the previous owner not not John's family and you know that for whatever reason they built 41 spaces with this office building which exceeds code in in in several ways but that may have been the code at the time and the code has since changed um but parking is an issue in downtown so we'll get back to that in in in a in a moment but I just want to give you an understanding of of that that John and his family purchased the the property in 1989 and has has has been um own the property since that time John is also a tenant so he has a lot of uh history in downtown and and knows exactly you know what's needed in terms of of uh parking so going back again to the uh to the site area um you can see to the see do this to the left uh this is an existing single family home with an existing driveway on seminol Street uh and and and we're going to propose our driveway in this area location I'll show you that in a in in a moment um on to the next slide uh this is the existing parking area the proposed Site Area it's it's rarely used um you can see we have an access off of seminal Street and an access off of Denver that will be closed the future access will basically be in this area where we're looking this will be closed and this one will be will be closed and and the lot that we're trying to create will be drawn basically where the payment ends and we'll be adding some Landscaping there but there's also a drainage structure in this location so the drainage structure will will be retained on the on the office building and there'll be an easement that will be created for drainage and Landscaping purposes as part of the uh the plat um and you can see the the adjacent building uh this is their driveway and this is their garage so we're looking to more or less duplicate that this is the parking um in the rear uh along seol Street you can see the the the cond buildings that are on the waterfront and uh this is this is Denver of course and the existing 4ft sidewalk and if if if I go back to the previous slide I wanted to mention that um got that that it appears that the sidewalk uh the existing 4ft sidewalk was constructed at the same time the office building was as you can see there's no sidewalk there but it was constructed in 1986 getting back to the photos that I took today uh showing the existing the existing building in the in the in the background this is again looking off a seminal Street and this is the existing garage and existing driveway adjacent to the property and of course this is the site we're talking about there that that that structure here is a FPL Transformer some kind of box that we're going to to work around we're not having to to relocate that but we are going to probably install ballards to prevent any type of impact um that facility this is across seino street on the waterfront existing twostory structure and and you know you can see the the signs you know for the first 20 years that John owned this property he allowed people to use that that that parking lot he didn't need it for the office but the public did use it and up until a few years ago he had to install the signs because uh there was a lot of uh problems with the public parking people were leaving trash and debris and um he's never charged anybody for that parking he's never put it in the pool for parking that's not what he wants to do with with with this site um he doesn't want to make money off of it he wants to build his his dream home um again this is the corner of of of uh go back of Denver and uh and seol which is on this side and this is a carrotwood tree it's going to come out uh you know again this is the 4ot sidewalk uh there will be we have like 10 ft of landscaping in here this whole corner will be re landscaped with with trees and vegetation and and um and as as all part of this improved but the the problem with the sidewalk now is it it it has been there for a long time and the road is needs Improvement and and there's Utilities in the sidewalk there's a lot of stuff going on there and and I'll get to that in a in a moment so again the site it looks like this today we like it to look like this one day that's what we're requesting and I'll go into the detail of the um of the site plan here so again here's our our access off of SEMO Street in line with the garage and access next door to us this is the garage for this this this home you can see the extensive Landscaping that we're proposing along the boundary and you know and you know the code that's there now I don't think was written for a single family home it was written for a commercial development or a mixed use development where you have retail and on on the first floor and apartments on the second floor so just about everything we we are doing is a conditional use because we're building a single family home not an apartment building and not a a commercial development um so the the pool is is set back and and what we have here are columns you know the The Columns are 5T high but the wall is only 4 feet high and the columns are designed to tie in with the architecture of the building it's it's not a standalone fence or a standalone uh block wall we're not looking to to to to um uh totally um uh screen the building or the pool but but you know there is no no wall here this is all going to be open we do propose a decorative rail fence you know think uh black rot iron fence that will run along the you know the property on this side it's really there for security purposes you can see through it um you know we're going to to landscape that area put additional Landscaping in there um but the the columns along the front um again just give some privacy to the to their residents but John's about over 6 he's probably the only one that could look over the columns at anyone on from the inside but but for the most part the pool is not going to be seen at all from the street level and to put the pool back here in the back or on the side it just doesn't make sense for the design of the of of the home that we're trying to construct here um so um this is the two foot uh sidewalk easement that we're proposing adjacent to the existing sidewalk that will be provided um and let's see what else I need to go over here uh again the property line will will more or less exclude the existing Landscaping but the the landscape plan shows that we're enhancing the Landscaping here and all the way around this structure um and John already enhanced the landscaping around the office building so we're not doing any improvements to the office Landscaping except in this area that would be the only change so again let me go back one more time just to show you understand this is a this this here is a second story Terrace so this is on the second floor and it's only a two-story building it's not any it's very much in keeping with the with the with the product and the and the surrounding structures um but this is a second level Paris you can see that um here that's the second level Paris and and then behind this wall is the pool and again there will be Landscaping here attractive Landscaping this again is a rod ir and decorative gate that will tie in into the uh the rest of the site for security purposes um so that's the that's on seol Street Frontage this is on the uh the Denver Street Frontage um uh and then we got this is the rear of the site from the office view looking at from the office office parking lot you can see again the Second Story Terrace up here just beautiful architecture and I do have Sean suku here who did the architecture he's the architect if you have any questions for him um and then this is the uh the side adjacent to the existing single family home um and this is our garage which is adjacent to their garage and you know this is the steps that that are going up so again we're proposing a setback there to just enhance the landscape um you know the code require um allows for zero setback all the way around the site but we you know we're providing setbacks in order to enhance the Landscaping um so the the recommendation is two uh points of contention that I'd like to discuss a little bit further and I told John when I first got involved with this project that and everybody knows that parking in downtown Stewart is an issue so the last thing we want to do is not appropriately Park the office building and so um so we I want to talk a little bit more about that and also the the sidewalk so what I asked John to do uh as part of our analysis was to identify the tenants in the office building today and it's 100% occupied it's it's um it's you know he's he's one of the tenant um as well and so I asked John to go out there during the peak season which was was just from February no from January to March go out there twice a day once during the morning peak hour which is around 10:00 and you can see um but on here you'll note that out of the 10,890 square feet you know there's only an 8,910 feet of leasable area I mean the building is constructed with a lot of of unique and enhanced common area it's just the style of the Forum building uh has a lot of common area that can't be leased so uh we're you know John is has has um is willing to commit to a maximum leasable area 8,910 ft in order to secure this parking rate but you can see on the parking data I had him count the the the the number of of uh Ed spaces on the back lot the front lot um and we evaluate it based on the 25 spaces that are going to be retained uh around the office building and you can see in just about every case um the the rate is about 50 the the maximum at any one time during this study was 56% % of the 25 spaces were occupied on the entire site so so and you can you I'm sure you guys go by there there's this parking is Never full around the office building and and there's there's more than adequate space for the parking so this study went through March and um uh resulted in this type of analysis the average parking occupancy of the office building based on the 18 data points we did during the peak season peak uh hour of the day only 47% of the 25 parking spaces were occupied and that's on both Lots so we're counting you know both lots and the lot in the back is never used actually but the actual parking rate that that works today is one space per 74 uh uh 742 Square ft and that's based on the 100% occupancy of the gross leasable area and what we're proposing based on the uh I'm I'm sorry the the the net leasable area of 8,900 10 square ft we're proposing one space for 356 Square ft again based on the leasable area and the 25 available parking spaces around the uh the existing office building and we agreed to add a note on the plan to record the affidavit so that we would lock in this parking rate um and restrict the leasable area to 8,910 square ft for the life of the existing building so no one could go in there and and convert common area to leasable area no one can go in there and and add on to the building to increase leasable area John is willing to commit to this uh this this parking right for the life of the existing building so this is the data that's on the actual site plan you know the first floor area we very detailed in and the square footage that's the that's the I'm sorry oh boy I knew that was going to happen right at the end you not turn that back on closed it down got all the there you go okay sorry about that all right let me get back to the you want to get me back there okay uh tell me when I got it right here I got it okay thank you I apologize so this is the data that's on the site plan and and we are proposing um to to fix the the parking rate based on the net leasable area 8,000 so so the note on the plan actually says the proposed parking rate for the exist office building is supported by Affidavit of John E mauchi managing member as recorded in O book and we're going to record it um and shall remain in full force and effect for the life of the existing building so so that will be not only on the site plan but it will be recorded in the official record as well so the two points of contention we agree with everything else that staff said are very comprehensive and detailed re appreciate that Scott and we work closely I mean Chris we we work closely with Chris during the review of this um but we just don't feel that the the payment in lie of parking is applicable because we're dealing with an existing office building not a proposed office building that has a track record um and and we're we're willing to fix the leasable area uh to what currently occupied 8,910 Square ft so so again that space is we've never had a situation where more than 54% of the of the existing 25 spaces were used during the peak hour peak season so we think that's a reasonable request and then as far as a 6 foot sidewalk we're willing to donate the two foot sidewalk easement but the construction of the sidewalk should really be done as part of a road Improvement project the the road is is needs to be repaired and and the there are numerous utilities underneath the sidewalk and and another um you know drainage that's going to become needed as part of a road Improvement project so we'll repair obviously we'll have to repair the 4ot sidewalk if it's damaged and where that current the the current access are are um are located we'll we'll install the 4ot wide sidewalk but um if we to do a six foot sidewalk in the middle of the four foot sidewalk is a peac mill approach and it will probably have to be uh torn up at some point in the future to build uh the road Improvement that's really required for Denver and all so so we we would rather just keep the sidewalk at 4 feet repair it where we damage it and uh dedicate a two- foot sidewalk eement so the the city can can can expand the sidewalk as part of a railroad Improvement project um so that understanding John do you want to say a few words just so he can kind of reinforce our presentation because he's thank you Morris good evening I'm John mauchi I the owner of the Forum building and this is where I will be living just to give you a little bit of a history this home is based it was designed is being designed by Sean it's based on a home that exists in Palm Beach that was built in the 1920s and 30s I did that because I thought that the city of Stewart would want something there that was historic so that's why it's designed the way you saw it my father bought the Forum building in 1989 and it was built several years before that and one of the things I'm objecting to is having to pay this parking lot fee and I'd like you to know why in the 35 years that we've owned the Forum building we allowed for three decade for people to park there because we knew they were going downtown and going to local businesses and we were trying to be a good neighbor I also allowed people to park there during these festivals and these art shows we allowed them to put their uh trailers there their motor homes there were times over the 35 years that when there was an art show down there the Forum parking lot would be completely filled with trailers and customers and so forth but we did it because we tried to be good neighbors it's only about two years ago that I had to start cracking down on it for the reason that Morris stated I reached out to the city two years ago for some assistance with that but didn't get that much back I still have to uh go put up um cones before each of the festivals maybe in the future I I can work something out with the city in that regard so it was two years ago that I really started to crack down on the parking the reason I don't want to pay the parking fee is because the Forum building has never needed the city's parking we don't stress your parking at all in fact people have been coming for 35 years onto our parking lot and we've helped you with your parking problems even when I build that house on the back based on the affidavit I submitted the parking lot which remains will still have extra spaces and people will still come on from the public park in the Forum building and go downtown and frequent the business business is because I can't post somebody there 24 hours a day so basically we've always helped you with your pro parking we'll continue to help you with your parking with the parking lot that remains after this and in the future we'll continue to help you with your parking so we're not doing anything at all before now or in the future to stress your parking that's why I don't want to pay that parking fee uh let me see if there's there's anything else we've also paid substantial taxes in the 40 years that the form has been there and I don't believe that it's right to ask me to pay that fee for that additional reason in terms of the sidewalk I'll just reiterate what mois said if you go out and take a walk there to make me build a six foot sidewalk that funnels into a 4ot side into another 4ot sidewalk it's it's unfair and it's not right also in view of our history of paying taxes into the city I don't think it's fair for me to to require me I'm I'm simply putting a house on an ugly parking lot where a house once was for me to live in that's all I'm really asking of the city I don't need your parking I've never needed your parking and I won't need your parking in the future again to repeat how Clos is I opened even when I build that house your excess parking will still be going onto my parking lot and again I would ask that you not require me to build That Sidewalk just because I'm coming here to build a beautiful dream house that will enhance the downtown area thank you all right thanks Sean um let's uh go through here and see what kind of comments we have and uh let me start off by saying saying that uh because I think it's appropriate I've known John for a while I live downtown as many people know I love it downtown um I've run into him a number of times he he's told me before what he was looking at doing i' I've met with Morris when when the plans were drawn up um and I and I do come with an open mind as they say at the commission meetings but but I do want to make it clear that I I've known because I do live downtown and he's downtown all the time that um you know I see him on a regular basis so um I was familiar with this plan before it was brought to to this board so I just wanted to make that clear Frank do you have you want to start off or I can start off it doesn't make any difference go ahead all right I'll start off then I'm GNA get on a soap box I'll stay on it for just a couple minutes and then I'll get right off right so this is the kind of project that I think the community wants downtown this is the type of thing that we want to see we want to see mixed use on the property we want to see the owner of the property who works on the property live on the property we want to see this type of of structure that most likely is going to stay in the family and not be knocked down to become an apartment building right and and this is what we want yet our code makes it so that this individual who wants to build what we want could build easier a four-story or a three-story building because they would meet all all of the requirements than to build their own single family home and that's why I've been saying for a while we need to look at this code in in our in our CRA to so that we're we're not taking away what we want we're you know we're taking away most people wouldn't mess with this and then we're throwing these costs on top of them wouldn't mess with it um and you know say okay I'm just going to sell it to somebody who's going to put something else there they can make more money um you know so that irritates me a little bit it tells are codes broken when somebody wants to build what they want to build and they can't do it under our existing code that that's the the first thing on that the second thing on this is that I find uh very ironic is that if you build under the codes that apply to seol street instead of the codes that apply to Oola Street you could probably do this in a heartbeat because seol is residential and it's designed under the code it's the only place where it's residential really and so you can actually do that so he could split this off with no no requirement at all and potentially build build that house there so I I I mean I just I'm just saying it's just kind of I find it odd that that we have this kind of thing and then um my other comment is relative to to parking and and this is a personal thing because I have the same situation in my area Town up here at this side of town I'm the only one that has parking but I'm told we don't have a parking problem but I'm the only one that has parking and I'm supposed to provide it as it turns out John's kind of the same thing on that side he's got extra parking he's providing it but other people are building right across the street basically and right down the street they're building four-story buildings with multiple apartments and they're you know there areund parking places short of the requirement they're not doing that here and charging for that and so I have a I have a problem with that so um I I really like this type of thing because I think this is what we're about um frankly the only thing on here that probably could be done that is more of what was originally thought of in the original design was to put a sec small Second Story on that garage so that it could be Workforce housing and um and that's really the the only adjustment that I would suggest is that uh you know you consider putting you know about a 450 or 500 foot apartment on top of your garage and but um but anyway that's why I wanted to kind of lay it out there because I know we struggle sometimes to find stuff and I think this is what we want downtown but anyway that's just my opinion on it so Frank I don't have any questions go ahead the uh in the staff report um what part of the item report so this 41 parking spaces that were obviously required in 1989 Morris said that changed to something else recently is what what is so what is the parking space is required for that commercial building it's not 41 today what is it today so to answer your question I'm not uh aware of what the requirement was in 1989 for the parking but today's code requires one parking space per 350 parking uh square feet of gross floor area and as the building is existing today it requires uh 31 parking spaces so of the 41 only 31 of them are required one's a new one right so that there's where you get the just just uh losing six spots cor I got you and Frank um I'm sorry I would just mention too because this that was another item I'm glad you brought it up you know that's based on Gross floor space not occupied floor space that's here's the thing so the the gross floor space versus leasable floor space and this uh parking affidavit study it's all irrelevant to me simply because of this this is a commercial building in downtown Stewart and all those things I just mentioned assume we can predict the future and say that this building will be in the same ownership forever and ever and they have the same leasing tenants forever and ever it's the type of tenant that that determines the amount of traffic in now not not the square footage I mean if you have a ITI versus a I don't know archaeologist all right it's different so all that is irrelevant so bottom line is we're going to lose six parking spaces somewhere um you know what what when I when I looked at the place physically what would really help me is if you brought up the aerial the TR aial okay where it shows the the entire the entire property from the sky real picture okay good I assumed wrongly okay so now do me a favor so we got uh let's see North draw draw me a line North I mean sorry draw me a line with your with your cursor East West the backline of a new residential property so from here okay to here all right so when I saw so when I saw all the parking being being lost I I thought that maybe you were taking out that whole row of parking there okay so your numbers have us just losing six parking spots for commercial commercial building in downtown Stewart uh okay if you say so um and and just the the whole presentation the whole presentation to me and and Mark just kind of put the squash on that a little bit uh all I saw was the all these things that they're asking for you know that don't go with the existing code it's a lot I mean it's like bang bang bang bang front set back you're not supposed to have anything in between your house and and and in the front street there's all kinds of there's all kinds of stuff they're asking for I figured this would be like the in a negotiation this would be the opening Salvo from those who want to get everything they can and uh I thought I saw a lot of negotiation in there but but uh and and as far as the the the Palm Beach historical building I just see something that doesn't jive with everything around it that's what I see I see Willie Garry's H Gary's uh monstrosity down the street with the same S type of architecture other than that I don't see anything else in the area that's you know that that looks like that so I'm wondering uh what does Marty think your next door neighbor over there what do have you talked to Marty have you have you have you talked to Marty I don't want to speak for other people oh yeah I stopped and spoke to Marty and Kathy okay yeah and you can call them they're elated okay great okay that's all I want to know I've knocked on doors and everybody's elated okay um thank you for that y all right I'm I'm done thanks R um I had a lot of parking questions and um I think I think we've had most of them answered um this I mean yeah I think someone had mentioned they never had a request like this before I was really surprised when I read it and before I got to the site plan I was like there's no way this is going to work um and then I looked at the architecture and what it looks like on seminal and um I thought about all those res residents that were here a couple months ago when the restaurant wanted to come in and they didn't want it here um and I don't see any residents here today okay I've got one and I would love to hear what you have to say um my point being that in my 10 years of Consulting and doing public Outreach with communities if people don't want something they show up and so um I I want to hear what you have to say before I make any decision um I I think you have to stand up and speak I guess my f um I mean it's empty parking lot so it's kind of like isur mhm my only concern if there's a problem with parking are they going to be parking now over at riverhouse okay so I mean that's a problem because people Park where we are now already M um I mean it wouldn't be my choice of the architecture of the building but you know his his property he can do whatever he wants and I think it's definitely an upgrade from it what what's there now which is nothing okay my really the parking they going to be flowing now in theous park okay thank you I appreci you pill out a little blue card there yeah sure Joseph I he also does he have to say his address yeah go ahead uh 51 Southeast seminal Street okay thank you you're welcome I don't have any more questions that's Aon you're up um well I as someone that I actually frequent the coffee bar across the street from the office so I remember remember when you started putting up the signs and having to get people not to park there but um it all kind of makes sense I mean the setbacks you know as someone that is uh I know the urban code quite well um and the setbacks the pool the balconies the um even the sidewalk I think uh the what you're asking for the sidewalk I think all of that makes sense I think that the only thing I would agree on for the recommendations from the the department is to pay for the parking spaces um I know that the it does make sense to reduce the parking based on the leas space I I would say so just because of it's an office building now if it was retail or if you were trying to build a commercial building we'd be having a different conversation but I mean I believe there's two other that whole row back there is also houses and then there's another house in this line of houses that has a pool similar to this um kind of in the same setup so I don't see it as some as something that would stand out too much from the rest of the community um but yeah the only thing I would agree with is um on the recommendations that uh you pay the parking fee so that we can use that money later to invest into better infrastructure and more parking okay do we have uh any f further comments from Mark yeah um the word negotiation the more I look at it it's like so the give and take here would be what would you guys have to do to not lose those six parking spaces downtown for a commercial building and so you're you don't you've got that space on the front side where you only you not required any setback whatsoever there's I don't know is it 10 ft my point is in a negotiation if someone said no I do not want to lose those six parking spots downtown for a commercial building because we already have parking issues The Negotiator I would at to negotiate I would say well you know couldn't you just have a little smaller house and and uh maybe work with us a little bit I know it's your property I get that I'm I'm for property rights as much as anybody else but again your it's your admission that we're losing six six parking spots downtown and you know you're getting it looks like you're getting everything you want and we're losing six parking spots so that's why I'll be voting against it but it doesn't you know I see three other votes here so I'm done okay we can vote on it with conditions right uh yeah we can yeah we can talk um do we have any um any comments from anybody else want to make a comment welcome to you okay I'll make one final last comment on this thing I think when you're looking at parking and you're looking at something that's going to go there that is large and has never been there before I think that whole concept of how much parking it's going to use is is more loose because you don't know how many people are going to use it I know again I can only go by on my own situation I've got an office building I know what my office building is required to although I thought mine was UN leasable space I didn't know a portion of my building actually needed to park when there was nobody there but I guess U but anyway I um and I know what mine is but I also know since I've been there for 20 years um how many places had actually takes and it hasn't changed you know in 20 years and so you know that's kind of what gets me a little bit here we're asking somebody to pay something when they're really not changing if this was being proposed to some other project and you were putting residential in downtown you could probably get that at one and a half maybe maybe less you could probably negotiate that out because it's mixed use property you know some day some night and you double count spaces like we used to and he's not you know he's not really doing he's just and and even there he's going to move his car from his garage to his office building right next door so he's two of the places they don't count right so you know I I just I don't see where there is any added cost to the city for what he's going to do there that's why I have a hard time charging a property owner for doing something we really want him to do um for something that really isn't going to change it's it's kind of opportunistic on our part from a city standpoint we're we're we're like okay we got this guy so now what can we charge him you know and and I just don't think it's fair that's just my personal opinion but you know I just don't think it's fair to charge for that but well you know to some extent I agree that's why I think the sidewalk uh his asked for the sidewalk makes sense um because the city is already planning on doing a streetcape on the other side of seminal and I wouldn't be surprised if later down the line we end up uh trying to improve the Eastern side here so and kind of like what he said about building it from a six foot or going from a 4ft to a six foot and then back to a four foot it's you know doesn't quite make sense so I think that um allowing or him not having to build the sidewalk makes sense but as far as paying for the uh parking the in the parking I think that that is beneficial in the long run for us to have to invest into a better parking situation for the entire downtown in the high peak of Seasons maybe the parking is not always full but there's I'm sure there's been times where that parking has come in handy for the broader downtown yeah I understand um all right um can I have we need a motion right so you're looking for a motion from us tonight or what are you looking for again for the record City attorney Lee bag it um besides the chair c Bill three of you make a motion whoever makes a motion first to make a motion with conditions or make uh make a motion for approval as uh as request uh you would ask that question so if you want to make a motion for approval with conditions you can but whoever goes first it would have to be seconded up for you to make the motion Mark you have to pass the G something like that yes he could make a motion he would have to pass the G on here it says providing for conditions already so are the conditions what the department uh suggested is that what you can make a motion for approval with your conditions that you want and then if it's seconded you vote Bo um no one makes a motion I'll pass the G let Me Bonnie here you can have it no idea what to do with this thing you can just you you beat people if they don't agree with you that's what I found um I make a motion to um to uh approve the uh the project uh with the modification for the sidewalks and without the pileup um so second without what was it I'm sorry I said I made a motion for approval of the project with the V the modification that they proposed relative to the sidewalk but without the pileup cost are can you clarify are you saying you want to keep the condition that they do have the six foot sidewalk or what I'm saying is that I wanted they've proposed modifying the staff's recommendation from putting in the six foot now to granting an easement and then adding that easement to the four feet that the city would replace when they do Street work and um and then the uh second is that they've asked for a variance on the pileup fee and and um I have um recommended that that variance be allowed okay so all right no second so we'll try again all right the uh U I guess why don't you go ahead yeah I'll make a motion with the condition that we uh allow for the setback on the sidewalk instead of them having the build it and with the pileup fee okay I can't second anything correct um yeah H yeah you can second now right but I'll uh I'll I'll second it for discussion and uh all right I'll second it so the um so um we got a first and a second the only comment I'm I'm going to make uh really again and this is just a personal thing you know I hate it that those of us that happen to have parking in downtown Stewart we end up always having to pay something and the people that don't don't and it just irritates me that's and and it's more of a personal irritation I said it before you know he's got a building that has parked itself for 35 years I got a building that's parked itself for 25 or 30 years and yet if I come and ask to do something I got to pay because I've been providing parking to the city all along but now I have a project that needs three more places and so it's just I'm just saying that's that's why I have a problem with that with that pileup fee but anyway call the question all right go ahead board member Moser yes board member mccristal no board member Hawkins yes Vice chair Brookville yesk very all right all right thank [Music] you all right next uh order of business by the way I do want to make one comment while Chris is still here Chris while you're while you're still here and and I do appreciate even I might disagree with something I certainly appreciate what staff does and the efforts that they go to on this and you know we all have our own personal things from time to time and I don't want anybody to think that that means that we don't you know we don't value what you do in your and your the way you do it you know so just so you know Chris yeah I I wasn't supposed to work today I end up working today I was gonna I was going to track you down and and would that be is it is that would that be fine if I had questions before they come to come and approach you okay good all right thank you all right the uh last uh well wait a minute we've got um CRA is this the budget this is the budget oh this may take a while right um again panal Gandhi saada C director for the record I'm going to walk you through our fiscal year 2025 budget um so the city's taxable value and its millage uh millage rate along with the County's millage is what drives uh the contribution to the increment financing in the C's trust fund so the C's uh original base value is$ 299 million uh this is when the C was established and the current taxable value for the city is 883 million um so and the taxable value for the county is different because they have certain exemptions that we don't have um so when you take the current value uh of uh of 500 there's there's an increment of $584 million um and then what you do is you add the millage rate to that increment uh which is 5.0 millage uh for the city and um which comes out to 2.7 million uh contribution from the general funds and the County's contribution to the CRA is 3.5 million uh total Tiff contribution to the C trust fund for this fiscal year is $6.3 million um so this chart here shows a breakdown of all the CR Revenue uh from different sources uh like I mentioned this County's Tiff revenue or Count's County's Tiff contribution is 3.5 million the city's contribution from the general fund is 2.7 million additionally um there are other sources of revenue which includes the Grant in the amount of 5.1 million uh CRA fund balance of 12.2 million which is like the savings account for the CRA uh and I've been reserving funds uh for downtown undergrounding of overhead utilities and seminal streetcap projects um for over the years because I know it's going to be a large project for for the CRA uh We've also been reserving some funds for the guy Davis Park over the years um there's an interest revenue of 20 uh $75,000 and then the way finding signage program we do collect fees from the businesses so there's a revenue of $2,700 so the total revenue for the um for fiscal year 2025 is 23.8 million um the total expenditure uh for this year is 19.7 million so the remaining of approximately 3 million in Tiff Revenue uh will go to the fund balance as a c we do have responsibility budget we can't just sit on this money we do have to appropriate funds to Capital Improvement projects and we have to implement those projects within the C boundary um so the CRA has appropriated funds for Capital Improvement projects as set forth in the 5-year Capital Improvement plan uh which was attached to your agenda item I'm just going to walk you through some of the bigger projects um the downtown undergrounding project which includes undergrounding on Oola seal St Lucy and Colorado Avenue um this is the core of our downtown uh this project is not just aesthetic I mean I I continuously hear that it's aesthetic enhancement project um no this project also improves reliability safety um it preserves the historic fabric of our downtown um you know we we will help to eliminate any threat of falling poles or down fire U Down wires which could cause fire uh in downtown and destroy our Historic downtown um in addition to all of this we're also pursuing the national register of historic district designation for our core downtown so we want to remember that like this is to protect our downtown and this will be a huge honor uh for our downtown uh to be part of the national listing so this is undergrounding Project is not just about aesthetic there is more to it um the SI has been working on the undergrounding project since 2019 um since we did the feasibility study uh we went through design process um uh initially we were just going to underground seminal Street um but then uh we added Oola Street also because uh we received uh permits from fpnl they were going to harden Oola street so we said hey no we we plan to underground Oola Street also um so they are U they know of our timeline as far as doing undergrounding project um as soon as um you know if they find out that we're not moving forward with undergrounding project um they will look at their U their work plan and and Harden uh the polls in downtown so we will end up having large concrete poles in our downtown and we want to avoid this this is our Historic downtown this is where everybody comes um we did um contract with burkart uh to provide guaranteed maximum price for the project I went out for bid couple of times we didn't get the right bid first time we didn't even get a price proposal second time when I went out for bid um you know the the numbers weren't accurate there was a lot of errors in the math um so and and then they came back and they almost doubled their cost uh for improvements so um we just didn't feel comfortable accepting that bid so we we decided we need a better way of doing this um barart is experienced they do a lot of undergrounding project uh they recently sent out bid packages to 11 undergrounding companies and there were four companies that did respond and they attended the pre-bid meeting um they walk the the downtown with with these contractors uh so that they can submit their bid uh so we expect to have something back from barart um sometimes beginning of October and I hope to bring back the actual um guaranteed maximum price to the board uh sometimes at the end of October so I can get direction from the board as to how we're going to move forward with this project um but however at this time I am budgeting $4 million uh for this project and then um we'll wait for the direction from the board on how we'll move forward yes can a question sure so the the total cost of this just the seol street was it 11 or 14 million this is this is for the whole downtown seal Oola Colorado St Lucy so understand for the fiscal year but you you have told us in the past the exact right so initially just seminal and I believe it was 11 yeah it was for everything the whole four streets 11 million for the whole streets so initially they okay well that's okay I believe the streetcape or just the utilities just the utilities so you're breaking them apart okay the whole Pro the whole seminal project right that's a street was like $1 million no so that whole that amount was for streetscape just seminal streetscape and undergrounding which includes the four Street okay okay thank you good thank you yeah I do separate the cost but um when we when I present the project it's it's a it's as a whole project so for the so what you want for this budget this year is is enough money for the the I don't have the guaranteed maximum price it is possible no no no but but you're just looking to get the uh the utilities taken care of this year for for everything okay I got you okay very good thank you and you're saying P you need to leave those in there so that it's it's a viable project otherwise they're going to put those ugly big cement poles in downtown is that what exactly yeah okay and yeah that's right we don't have the guaranteed maximum price yet I don't know what that looks like so that's I'm waiting for that present that to the board it is possible that we might have to do a budget amendment this is just saying hey it's going to be at least $4 million for undergrounding and at least 1.2 million for streetcape so we're looking at about I'm budgeting about $5.2 million for underground and streetscape together right now and and there's no grant money matching grant money or anything for undergrounding your utilities there is no grant money for that I did get about $274,000 for the streetcape project uh because we're using um pervious pavers so we get some credit for that um so we did get some uh water quality grant for for streetcape project painting uh FPL as the wolf at the door is is uh you could sell some cars are giving us credit because we are um we are uh Going Underground so now they don't have to harden so they are giving us credit for that okay good okay all right sorry go ahead um so seminal streetcap project this is the improvements um between St Lucy and Colorado Avenue um as I mentioned earlier we did receive $274,000 in water quality grant for this project and I am budgeting $1.2 million for this project again the complete package from barart will be presented sometimes in October um you know we do go into holiday season if it if you know if it's just not feasible for me to present it uh before the holidays then it will be the first uh first uh month of the year for 2025 project lift um the city received 6291 million dollar in cdbg Co funding for acquisition and new construction uh of the formerly known as a Willie gar property to serve as a job training center um this this project was presented to the crb last month um when it went to City commission they did ask um to revisit the rezoning that the C was proposing for this project um they uh the board requested that uh we keep the zoning that it is today which is the cpud um so I will be bringing this item back to all the boards and just what to keep the rezoning the way it is um so this is a reimbursement Grant so I do have to um budget for this project uh we already spent $1.6 million for the acquisition in fiscal year 2024 uh we have contracted with kimley horn to prepare the design we had to do some environmental and Appraisal so there were some expenses uh that we incurred in 2024 uh but we still have about 4.3 million remaining in the grant um that we have not requested reimbursement for yet so that's being budgeted for in fiscal year 2025 um we hope that uh we get everyone's approval all the board's approval by uh end of October I hope to go out for bid in November and start construction in early 2025 and complete um 8 to 10 months after that so hope to open this facility um by early 2026 guy Davis Park um again we've been working on this project since 2019 but even before I took over I know Community Services have been working on this project you know back in 2014 um so right now we're at 60% design for this project um we're at the final stretch and uh we have we expect to have one more community outreach meeting by the end of this year and go out for bid process uh early 202 five I'm I'm budgeting $7 million for this project we did receive $500,000 from uh State appropriation for the construction of this project um so that $500,000 is included in that $7 million budget uh it's a reimbursement so I always have to budget up front and then get reimbursement um later on which becomes the revenue for the CRA uh we anticipate 18 months to complete this project and open to public by Fall 2026 [Music] um Dixie Highway improvements project you just heard that presentation um since we received the grant for this project uh it's for fiscal year 2027 um so this project is uh will go through design process in 2526 uh we have to meet all the deliverables for the grant and start construction in 2027 so I'm budgeting $1.5 million um for this 60 Highway Improvement projects so the CIP is actually a Five-Year Plan um so we always have to look to invest into CRA and and and the projects that we want to invest in uh in the 5year period a Martin County um Martin Luther King Junior Boulevard complete Street project we've been working on this project for a few years now I'm budgeting $5 million for this project we um we already are in the design process we're almost at 60% design we want to go back out to the community and get um get their feedback on the proposed plan and again continue to engage with the residents until we're ready to um goer bid uh so this is still a couple years out um We are continuing to seek grants for this project I hope to apply for cdbg Grant um in um next year uh in fiscal year 2025 and then hopefully we'll we'll have some additional funding available for this project and at this time uh staff is recommending um requesting um that the crb board uh recommend approval of resolution number 11- 2024 adopting the C budget for fiscal year 2025 and capital Improvement plan all right um any further comments Frank you got any questions on [Music] this I've mixed feelings the only thing that I really really support is is the undergrounding of utilities downtown you sold me on that um I don't know I saw the um displeasure a lot of the East Stewart Community has over the P project lift and uh the whole Martin Luther King Boulevard thing we're again same same idea where they feel as though they didn't really have a voice in anything so uh yeah I've got mixed views all right um M any comments um I did have a question that I I didn't ask last time but the project lift site that was an old gas station is that correct correct does it need remediation is that why it does not no gas tanks everything's been cleaned up I was curious if that's why it had sat there for so long um I don't have any questions I'm excited about um all of these projects um really excited about MLK just because um that's a route a lot of kids take to school and so any improvements you can do to make that street safer for kids walking to the Middle School um would be fabulous for our community Aon uh no no comment I mean MLK still in the design phase so and I'm remind me if I'm wrong but I think the main issue people had was the switching of the parking spaces people didn't like that they were going parallel and they wanted them to be slanted right so right now there's some angled parking and we are converting it to parallel parking um we did uh we are proposing um like a surface parking lot that would be available uh to the residents uh where uh the right where Where the Boys and Girls Club is there's a city-owned property so we are proposing some on Surface parking that we would provide as part of this project and that that is something that was uh that came up at Outreach meeting at the last Outreach meeting we have not met with the residents yet after that so that is something we'll discuss with them am I seeing more pavers for the design of that yes you are you're we have to re we have to reexamine this I mean the the gentleman who's in charge of streets what's what's his name Milton who Milton Leed yeah Milton let's get Milton's opinion on who's going to maintain these these all these papers throughout town I mean and again if you dive deep you've got the people that that put it out there for a living not really defending defending it heavily as far as it being a very durable long lasting cost efficient way to get traffic from point A to point B you can do all the other safety stuff and all the other multimodal make it a beautiful place to walk even though it's a thousand degrees eight nine months out of the year you can do all that stuff and still not have to use pavers okay Soap Box anybody yeah you just got off your paper soap box right I remember that but you got to remember to oil that every so many years FR fall so uh um I I did uh I had one a question because of what Bonnie brought up this property on that's being redone there for project lift who owns the property now city the city actually owns it all right so we've done environmental on it and there's no way there's any issues right because I remember on the triangle property over here it held up the whole the city bought that property and then we couldn't actually effectively use it because there was no real contamination but the potential because there had been a gas station on it so we ended up basically losing about a half a million dollars I mean about $500,000 or or $300,000 on that because we couldn't do what a private developer would do so I'm I'm just wondering if if it's in our hands already I guess we got the problem but if we have those situations based on what we learned in when the triangle when the zoo was built you know we got to be careful of that because as a government entity our liability is potentially higher than um than it would be if it was a private enter prate private developer PR private developer would just say you know no there's no problem here I'm good you know it's passed but we we got stuck with a delay on that we did have to go through state and federal regulations for environmental on this project so it was you know we did have to take some steps and it was approved by Florida con okay so we got that okay good that's what that's my concern there okay any other questions or um we need a motion yes okay res I'm not passing my gavl I get to keep it because I'm going to bang it here in motion to approve second motion second um I guess we need a roll call we do board member Hawkins yes board member mccristal no no board member Moser yes Vice chair bville yes all right uh the last thing is uh wrapping up uh wrapping them up so to speak we're going to wrap up a few uh signal boxes I think so let's uh let's talk about that all right Jordan you got the floor got his F good afternoon board members Jordan pingston CRA program manager for the record the traffic box art program initiative enhances Community character and celebrates the city of Stewart's natural beauty under this program vinyl photographs are being are planned to be printed and installed on 13 traffic control boxes dispersed throughout the city CRA the initiative transformed traffic signal controller boxes from functional infrastructure into colorful and inspired works of art all revolving around the city's environment and nature the art is meant to contribute to the vitality and attractiveness of our community enhance neighborhood identity turn ordinary spaces into creative landmarks and promote Community dialogue although public art can be aesthetically valuable case studies and research have demonstrated that public art can offer critical benefits to Residents such as improve Public Safety well-being and a sense of community studies show that the public art has Community Building powers that can combat feelings of anxiety and social isolation art allows us to stop and take a breath from the fast-paced society and can influence how we move think and feel in our environment it releases pre pleasure related neurotransmitters such as dopamine making engaging art mood enhancing many cities and communities are brightening their communities but oh I'm sorry in counties are brightening their communities by enhancing the dull metal plated traffic signal boxes with colorful themed photographs using a vinyl wrapping method in the past few years a similar project was completed in Palm City Martin County the project was initiated by a county commissioner of that District the bird themed photographs were donated by the county by a local business owner in Palm City to implement the project other neighborhood cities such as the city of Fort St Lucy and city of Fort Pierce have also implemented similar projects in 2020 commissioner Ula Clark requested staff to undertake the research regarding the potential of using vinyl wrapping artwork to enhance traffic signal box boxes within the city limits the Ws did not receive support from fellow Commissioners at the time but Direction was given to keep it on the long range plan in 2023 the CRA gave staff direction to move forward with the process of Designing and wrapping the traffic utility boxes within the CRA the board encouraged staff to showcase the natural beauty of Stuart by using photographs that reflected nature and landmarks the project was added to the 2024 budget and approved last year by resolution 11- 2023 the total amount alloc ated was 25,000 however the total costs are expected to come below budget at $1,719 30 the goal is to add attractive and creative artwork along the CR corridors and enhance the appearance of residents and V and visitors beautification of the traffic signal boxes is consistent with the CRA plan and within the purview of the board as part of the C cra's continuous mission to Advocate and promote public art in the city of Stewart the CR reached out to mult multiple local photographers seeking uh sample photos that would best represent the vision for the boxes Stephen Martine was selected to provide the final artwork and staff will be using Amper stand to fabricate and install the vinyl wraps on each box currently Martin County owns and maintains the boxes and approves a study wrapping the boxes however the maintenance agreement is being amended to reflect that it's the city's responsibility to maintain the wraps in a reasonable condition the city of Stewart has 37 boxes within the city limits of the total there are 25 boxes within the CRA however Martin County staff has advised us that some of those within the CRA are warning beacons and do not have cabinets to wrap and others are being reserved for a partnership with the fdot to provide pedestrian safety messages on the cabinet wraps at Key intersections along Federal Highway the CRA will be moving forward with wrapping 13 boxes within the CRA staff strategically selected photos for each of the traffic boxes based on the Box's location and Scenic backdrop alternate images may be necessary based on the traffic box dimensions visibility and picture orientation and graphic quality but staff will work with our vendor to determine which photo fits best um for each location staff has selected the main image as our first choice and the smaller images as alternates Northwest Green River Parkway and Dixie Highway the the traffic box is located as a gateway to Haney Creek preserve The Preserve provides this area with nature trails Lush landscape and Wildlife the BM Blue Bonnet flower photograph was taken at Haney Creek Northwest Dixie Highway and Northwest right Boulevard this box is adjacent to nautical Landscapes and marinas the new landscape was recently planted around the box which will further highlight the artwork the Red Crab brings out the red and the brm ads behind the box Northwest Federal Highway and Northwest North River Boulevard this box is located near the Roosevelt Bridge which overlooks the Waterway and Marina and eget is a native bird in this area and when blending with the natural environment Northwest Federal Highway and Southwest Ocean Boulevard this box ABS to the city's very own Shepherd's Park the location has water views and boats and marine life a photo of mangr reflects the nature you can find when walking on the board Boardwalk Southeast Ocean Boulevard and SouthEast Georgia Avenue theox is the closest to the Memorial Park Memorial Park is Rich with nature including beautiful Banyon trees the Banyon trees represents grow strength and self-awareness through reflection Southeast Martin Luther King Jor Boulevard and Southeast Lake Street an entry point into the East Stewart Community baseball has played an important role in the history of you Stewart and staff thought we could showcase the importance of local sports in sale fish ballpark on this box Southwest Federal Highway and Palm City Road natural flowers and Greenery will be cohesive with the surrounding backdrop Southwest Federal Highway and Johnson Avenue located on one of the access points to the creek and arts the Creek Arts and Entertainment District Johnson Avenue has a direct view of the water tower in the distance Southwest Federal Highway and Southeast Central Parkway located outside of the Martin County School District building pink B and vilia brings a pop of color to a Green Landscape Southeast Dixie Highway and Southeast chrisy way and eagr is a native bird to this area will blend in with the natural environment Southeast Dixie Highway and Southeast Florida Street this location is closest to the airport and Ibis birds in Flight will simulate planes in the sky Southeast Palm Beach Road in 10th Street these flowers are photographed at the 10th Street Garden Garden down the street and the orange flowers complement the brick on the corresponding wall um South Colorado Avenue and Southeast Federal Highway this box is in a key location and acts as a Gateway into downtown staff was able to work with the county and add it onto our list the image gives you a glimpse of what you can experience in downtown Stewart the water and Greenery will blend in nicely with the surrounding landscape and SE Coast Banks color pallette Federal Highway leads you to the Roosevelt Bridge which is also featured in this photo um and then as far as CRA recommendation goes this did go to the last CRA meeting commissioner Clark suggested highlighting the pond on MLK or Royal Point siennas instead of the sailfish ballpark on the photos you see now are possible Alternatives but staff will work with commissioner Clark to make sure she's happy with the final image um commissioner goob requested amending the inter local maintenance agreement language to ensure that if the county damaged the w on the traffic box then they would be responsible for the cost of replacing it um the city proposed revisions to paragraph number four stating that in the event that any County staff member damages the wrap on any traffic signal system cabinet within Municipal limits while performing operations or maintenance in or around the subject traffic signal cabinet and Report said damages the county shall be responsible for the cost of the damages to the wrap um unfortunately Martin County's attorney did not agree to this amendment so staff will be bringing the original agreement back to commission for direction and City staff is excited to implement this project and um as traffic control boxes serve as an important infrastructure role in our community every day this concludes our presentation thanks Jordan um Aaron any comments questions no not really I'm for it M we're not voting on anything correct oh I think we are just a presentation just a presentation okay Frank any comments come on you got to have them because I had them you want one you want one go ahead and just when I thought we were going to escape one meeting without going into the artsy fartsy mode I'll I'll say the same thing I said at the uh I'll just I'll just let that go but the record you can put that on that was prank um I'll I'll say the same thing I I I said at at C and that um a couple things it's uh those boxes are places nobody's going to have a chance to see them because they're they're near roads where people are going to be driving by it and they're not generally in walkable areas so you're not going to get to see them I I think that we're going to have constant fights with Martin County and that was probably only the first you know it's it's a li ability that we're taking on that we didn't have um and now we're entering into yet another interlocal agreement with Martin County that could come back to buy this and and I understand you know what what you're talking about and yeah it's like uh commissioner Collins said you know well it's it's not that much money but as um Cher cenny said um yeah but it adds up you know it it just adds up over a period of time and you know then there's 30,000 over here and there's 12,000 here and and it eventually just get and you know so from my standpoint I just don't really see the need to it you know it's not because I love art stuff and if it was stuff where people could walk by and I mean I'd love to have it where there was a historic site and it was right near the historic site you put that there but even things like for example the sailfish ballpark you're putting that in East Stewart you know sailfish ballpark was the white ballpark you couldn't play on that ballpark if you were black really yeah so you know so you know some of that stuff really grinds the old-timers uh you know because they they were told they couldn't use it before now you're going to take that and stick it in the middle of their communities some they're not going to be real thrilled so anyway I just that that was just my comment on it it it continues to be I I think you did a good job of finding stuff and doing it but I just think there're at locations where it doesn't ultimately uh you know get the the look that it should for what we're spending but but anyway that's my mark you know I was going to be nice and uh to to pile on you could even suggest that those art exhibits in those locations actually will contribute to distracted drivers well that's POS that's possible you want but on the positive I'm I'm glad to see that a local business is going to get get to work I appreciate that yeah I mean I I think they've done a good job of of uh you know getting local people involved all right any other comments or suggestions or questions any comments from staff I want I wanted to say I agree with youa suggestions I did want to ask so like what what is the price of maintaining the the vinyl rap like is there how much would it cost sure so just to replace one would be $500 and the life expectancy is probably about five years based on what I've spoken to other municipalities about okay and I and I did want to I I you might be touching on this City attorney but we already have a maintenance agreement we've it's been in place since 2014 so this is just an amendment to the current agreement yeah just a um background it's been in place since 2014 we brought forth an amendment because we proposed to Martin County hey we want to wrap your your boxes and they're basically saying if you want to wrap them you're going to be responsible we got to do work around it and it accidentally gets damaged you're on the hook not us you guys are the ones who want to rrap it that's argu so uh we've got to take it back for the the uh City commission to approve the way it was PR and we're just the wraps that's all we're responsible for so if anything else gets needs to be replaced that's the only issue was the wraps the damage to the wrap itself the county doesn't want to be responsible for it if they have to do some sort of maintenance service around it to get scratched or so if we stopped the rra program we wouldn't have any liability going through right we I mean no correct I mean uh unless we were doing something to them which I'm not sure what participation we have with the boxes on a normal basis they in our city we do have an interlocal agreement um I do want to say I don't know what's around these boxes if City stuff is there we working on it I'm not quite sure sure one of the reasons why we can't wrap um all of the ones in the CRA is that um the county did indicate that they were working with fdot to wrap some of those on the Federal Highway Corridor so I'm assuming if this does not move forward that's what you'll see in on those particular ones instead of our pictures I used to be a deputy City attorney for Port St Lucy and I recall they did it their boxes up there they they have I've seen them seen and I remember driving by and seen it so do notice yeah but uh yeah but it's just kind of some of the locations where they're at you know you don't you're you're not going to see him as easily but anyway all right um well thank you Jordan appreciate it and uh again thanks everybody any further comments I'll take a motion to adjourn somebody better move it because to got it motion to adjourn second all in favor I oppose none done thank you Mark you're welcome sorry about e e e e e e e e e for