e e e e e we're ready when you are all right well uh what time do we have it's like two minutes after 11 so we'll call the meeting to order come on be official okay all right and everyone is here so let's call the rooll okay Cher kovas here Vice chair Clark here board member gch here board member McBride here and board member Stanley here okay and Miss Mary you're taking care of everything for us so um let's rise for the pledge of aliance I pledge aliance to the flag of the United States ofer the for stand indivisible andice and had an opportunity to read the minutes yes ma'am okay can I get um Tove I I make a motion to approve the minutes I will second all in favor I we do have um Advisory Board Oaths item number one on the agenda we'd like to um go ahead and do an oath for all the board members for a new year it's just been some time okay can you direct us through that what are weing doing do you do you all have the oath uh for the record leag bag at City attorney you do not have a copy no if you read it and have them all right all right I'll have to do short version um so if yall will stand and raise your right hand and um repeat after me um I then state your name am qualified under the Constitution qualifi laws of Florida laid and the code of ordinances for the city of Stuart Florida and to to serve as a member Ser as a m of the Stuart independent Review Board of the steart independent review board and that I will well and Faithfully fa per perform the duties perform the duties of an Advisory Board member of an Advisory Board member on which I'm about to enter so help me God on I about to enter help me thank you may be seated thank you I will have the Oaths for you to sign after um any comments from the public see none any comments from the board members okay so um our action items first one is the review of the citizen complaint by Susie heatherington against officer chair may I also mention um we have the annual board reorganization um if you'd like to do that after the items we can do that okay okay good everybody or you're going to review it first right I will review if the board pleasure of the board however you want to do it okay so just a little bit of history as to why we haven't been here is since I've been chief of police for six years now give take um we have minimal complaints against officers which is a very good thing so I kind of held on to these so we had at least more than one so you'll notice that one of them the one that I'm about to go over happened back in 2023 in August so if something major comes up obviously I will certainly bring it to the board um but starting with uh the complaint against officer heitfeld uh this complaint was filed against officer heitfeld back in August 25th of 2023 as in your packet you can see the complaint for um during this complaint Miss heatherington uh who resides within the city of Stewart and on asra Lane uh was complaining that officer heidfeld was rude to her while he was conducting an investigation regarding and both of these cases involve HOAs uh so there's some tricky laws within HOA common areas who owns what so officer heitfeld was dealing with a basic essentially a neighbor problem and what happened was is that a person came in to complain and heatherington Miss Susie heatherington was the person of interest who was essentially messing with some patio furniture in a common area of the property so during the conversation um offer heitfeld did call Miss heatherington um she was during that time she was uh spoken to about the incident and his ultimate goal was to go and track hasp pass her from that location however the sergeant sergeant basio intervened in that incident and said no no no we're not doing that because it's an HOA it's all it's kind of you know not necessarily the right thing to do because it's a common area so while on the phone with Miss heatherington um oser hefel is having a conversation with her and as as I know prefaces first as police officers we have to deal with the public all the time inherently it's always a negative contact with a police officer most of the time you're getting a ticket whatever the case may be so during this time we have to have patience with people and I can tell you that during this incident um officer highest Fel lost his patient with Miss heatherington and during the conversation he actually hung up on her and I feel that's very unacceptable to do um and in your packet as well you do have I usually write a memo on it but I agreed immediately with the findings of the sergeant to write him up with a letter of counseling um so ultimately this was all caught on video um he hangs up on her which I I believe is unacceptable he did receive a letter of council uh Shift level and documentation of appraisal notes for this incident and that's how it was resolved at my level and it was moved forward to city manager Morel for comment and I believe he did agree with me on my findings on this case against officer hyfil and that's all I have if I can answer any questions if you have them as well um and as I recall what we have to do is agree with how it was handled yes ma'am and just as a clarification Mike Morell for the record um I did uh read the report and I do agree with the chief's assessment and it's interesting because the citizens review board is designed to provide a transparency and to make sure that there's some oversight in making sure because as staff we develop relationships with the officers and for example uh both officers in this case but in particular the first one officer heidfeld I've been you know working with for over 10 years and he's actually a a a a really a great cop so to speak and he was last year was selected to be the new uh K9 Officer because of his accomplishments and as a result sometimes we get blinders or what it might be and have a tendency to let things overshadow Shadow it but I agree with the chief that it doesn't matter if somebody's good bad or indifferent there is never a circumstance that a city employee can hang up the phone even if they're screaming at you and saying bad things you work for the government and if you choose to work for the government that's part of it and you've got to be prepared for that and I think the chief uh counseled him appropriately and and he gets it and he understood it but like like the chief said there really is no excuse for that the good news is that while that was rude and inappropriate it wasn't something that caused any harm to anybody or didn't do anything that would be you know considerably worse and fortunately we've this has been a learning and teaching moment and it hopefully will never happen again well I personally when you deal with hmos it's very ho hmos too they're not as fun either a problem with those those I when I was working as a caregiver it was a shock to me that's why when Bob wanted to sell the house and move into when I said Over My Dead Bob there's no way I would put up so I I commend the officer I understand what happened but he wasn't he needs all of our all of us need training when we go into those situations I agree and I think I think reactivity I think we've had this conversation many times in the past at many of these meetings is is working with our um law enforcement on reactivity and how to take a breath and and and yes um this was an educa this was more educational than circumstantial which is is a great thing and it's very frustrating working with an HOA I belong to one and it's yank yank yank and I I have some hairs that are missing um but what what's important to me is that um um with with my career and what I do that apology was given a personal apology and I don't know if I read that in here but I I do believe being hung up on I don't care what happens what circumstance who it is whether it be my kid my neighbor my whatever it it it feels horrible and and even just if the guy sat the phone down and went and walked somewhere else and said the last two words that she said you know okay well I hear that you're frustrated because this was done okay should he didn't have to hear it and we all know being hung up on is it it's it's so painful it's a slap in the face it is it is it's a slap in the face and and you you call this person and everyone's tempers are raised so I guess I would just and I didn't read it in here that an apology was given to Mrs heatherington and I I do think it's whether it's you know 2003 or 23 or whatever it still means something you know for him to call and just say you know what we were all in this frustrated situation I it's been a few years but I've thought about it and I'd really appreciate if you you'd allow me to apologize and hopefully assist you in the future in a better and deserving way cuz I'm here for you cuz sometimes that's all it takes and it's simple and I get that and I agree with that however from the standpoint of local government does that put us in a position of liability for an officer to call up and say I mishandled this or I want I think be my only concern I don't think it's a m liability as much as an empathetic oh you know I don't know yes I agree with you we don't want to get in trouble for saying sorry right I I don't want to jump uh the attorney but you know an apology by heidfeld is not a bad suggestion however he's already received his dis discipline for that issue so I mean it's kind of like how would you this board doesn't have the right right to us their comments can be taken into consideration from us and like the next time I see him I plan to tell him what your consensus was and that it wasn't just in passing that it was unanimous and that they affirmatively really felt strongly this way and and maybe on his own initiative he can that would be great heed that advice and and do something about it right and to go further the facts in this the exposure is very minimal just hanging up on someone if it was a police brutality type case totally different right if you're concerned about liability this might this might be a courtroom and it and it is again and I and I get that it's not you know detrimental or anything like that but I think we're all as human beings and again I'm not recommending anything I'm just because obviously we can't but I'm just saying if you had a neighbor that you don't like for two years and she came up and say hey I'm just really sorry about this situation I think they'd have more feeling towards our our police officers and anything like that like oh gosh even two years I was still given this opportunity to say so that's just me um I always feel it you know it's just a good place for forgiveness in the world and and Mike that's how I'm not I'm just giving my two cents and it's it's a teachable moment for humility too it is and um I think everyone feels better in the long run and if something happened and and that police officer was there and she was there it could go worse because an AP you know I don't know but we're hypo hypothesizing but I think the everything that you did was the right thing to do the counseling was good hopefully I mean you did what you could do and hopefully he was there and understood it and was empathetic I can tell you that the sergeant did intervene and he did not trespass with heatherington and if I'm not mistaken Sergeant BOS did go speak with heatherington regarding this issue as well great right I I I I agree with um the counseling that was done I think he took the right right action okay so we're taking that as a motion I motion I second all in favor I I okay and our next one is the review of a citizen complaint by lever mullings against officer Le again for record Chief J Joseph tanelli this complaint uh by Le Mullin is on officer Cory Lee uh another as Mr Morel said these both of these off officers are very good officers for the police department and have long tenure with the police department as well this complaint was filed on January 11th by L melons again an HOA issue it has to do with Christmas decorations so um the complaint is rudess um off-putting Behavior towards Miss Mullins and she's coming racial overtones as well um during this call aler Lee was field training a new officer named Eric lot so the complaint was that Miss Mullins was starting to take down again in the common area Christmas decorations um and a the police were called about her actions so what transpired ing this incident is a little bit more than the previous one to where an actual arrest was made on Miss Mullins so I'm going to go into a little bit of criminal law as a police officer you need probable cause to arrest somebody that means 51% that I believe that you committed have committed or about to commit a crime so a court system means 100% which is called Pro Beyond A Reasonable Doubt so the officer has a lot of discretion to whether we can make an arrest or not during this case um officer Cory Lee did give Miss Mullins a summon to appear in court he did not handcuff her he did not put hands on he gave her a ticket to appear here in court for criminal mischief for cutting the ties on the Christmas lights in this condo association which is also in the city of Stewart It's Park Square the case was ultimately dropped and the CATE attorney said it's Petty so on a legal basis officer Lee had the legal authority to arrest her because the criminal adist did happen was it the best thing to resolve the situation apparently not because we're sitting here today um he did resolve the situation by making the arrest the state state attorney's office did um dismissed the charges on her so she not was not necessarily taken into custody or taken to jail it's just like getting a um traffic ticket but she was required to go to court um and as you can see in your packet um they did dismiss the charges on her um during this uh I assigned this to Lieutenant Michael Gerwin um my internal affairs investigator and in the complaint and and the overtones of the complaint um she was I guess uh implying that she was only arrested because of her color she was a woman of color um so I didn't instruct Lieutenant Gerwin to go into uh our uh racial profiling policy and stuff like that he took it upon himself to do this and completed the investigation um in addition to adding open transparency regarding how the St steuart Police Department treats all of its citizens breaking it down by race and stuff like that which I thought was very good he did that on his own I did not ask him to do that um so we added the racial bias allegations made by Miss Mullins in that case um could have officer Le not arrested her yes um did he have the legal authority to do it yes um was he doing it because she was a woman of color no so I agree and this one I obviously did amemo on um I do agree with what off or excuse me Lieutenant Gerwin uh came up wrote to the to the investig ation um emphasizing the fact that you know this was not a you know a bias uh allegation and if you read his report he gave he gives an over overview of of what the police department uh does on arrests traffic citations and overwhelmingly you know there's no disparities amongst I mean it's pretty pretty well uh spread out um I reviewed this and I don't think well I should say I concluded that there was no basis for a complaint I think officer Le could have handled it possibly differently um instead of uh you know giving her a ticket to go to jail but based on the Stewart Police Department policy law I don't think he had any violations and I unfounded this case um based on the officer actions based on the Lieutenant's investigation and based on what I also saw as well any comments I I have I have some questions up on a little bit so what what happened is Officer Lee who's new to the no not L how how long has been I thought he wasain question You' have to ask the chief but oh he's training somebody else I'm sorry some else thank okay um and this this all goes the fact that she was taking down Christmas decorations well so if I briefly I'll tell you what happened I I read it but it's still two neighbors one lady wants to put Christmas decorations up she goes to the board of the Association and says hey can I put Christmas decorations up on the railings they Grant her permission to do so she purchases and or owns Christmas lights and puts them up on the railings her neighbor who doesn't like the Christmas lights for one reason or another instead of going to the association and complaining about it takes it on her own initiative to decide to take those lights down and decide that they're not allowed to be there and takes the lights down without permission essentially I mean it's not really stealing because she wasn't intending to remove them from the ownership of the other person but she was you know taking down if somebody went under your property and took down your Christmas lights without your permission you would be upset right and that's what happened the neighbor took him down she took the position that I took those down because you're not allowed to put them up even though the person that put them up had permission to put them up and I think she damaged some of them and yeah and pulling them down some of them were damaged and Corey's involvement was to go there and again try to get two neighbors to not be angry at each other during Christmas and um the lady that filed the complaint accused Corey of siding with the other lady because of the color of her skin and it had absolutely no relationship to the call it had no relationship to what happened and what Corey did was address it of look you criminal mischief or trespassing you that lady was didn't have permission to take down those lights if it had been the association that put up the lights or if it was the tenant or the person living there put up the lights it didn't matter who it was the lady that took them down did not own them and did not have authority to take them down period there is no circumstance When Corey gave the notice to appear to the lady that took him down he didn't arrest her or handcuff her like the chief said just look this is a criminal mischief you're vandalizing essentially and it'd be like if someone took the Christmas tree down in front of you know the city puts up a Christmas tree in the thing over here and somebody took it down because they didn't like it they don't have the right to do that they to come to the board first and express their concerns what that lady should have done is gone to her board and said hey I use that railing or that common area and I can't walk down the stairs because the lights are interfering with my ability if that was the circumstance or whatever it was instead of taking it upon herself to do it when Corey gave the notice he didn't care one way or the other if the state attorney prosecuted her for it he was just following the guidelines he alleviated the problem right then in there and got it over with couple weeks later a state attorney looks at it and it's like am I really going to prosecute some lady for taking down Christmas lights he dismisses the case and once the case was dismissed the lady who received the citation filed the complaint against Corey and made it a racial dispute and I can't tell you what her motive is or isn't but you know I think it was in the chief's report it it looks like someone that would be setting up a claim and so you know that is what you know quite frankly I didn't care what the motive was I read it I looked at it to to see if there was any possibility that she could have felt like he was being racist in any way and if there was any indication that he swayed one way or the other because of something of that nature and it was really a nonevent I mean the truth of it was Lady put up Christmas lights she had permission to do so from the board her neighbor took them down she called the police because her lights were gone the police told the person that took him down of course it wasn't you know the person that took him down was not friendly about it she was you know frustrated and he said that you know it's against the law you can't just go tear other people's property down and so he gave her a citation for criminal mischief it had nothing to do with her race religion age any protected class whatsoever it was that she admitted that she did it and that was it and so the reason that Corey didn't uh receive any reprimand or punishment is because the he followed the procedures he issued the citation which is what he should have done I mean could you imagine if he had actually arrested her for bringing for taking those Christmas lights down we'd be standing here going we don't that's not reasonable a reasonable society would not arrest the neighbor for taking on the lights even though they got damaged the appropriate thing to do was to just give the citation and say you know what that's not my job a state attorney or somebody else is going to address this and move on and that's exactly what he did I thought she was arrested it ended in Reon she was she didn't go to jail she was issued a notice to appear in court and she so and then it was all dismissed but then she came back after she got her way of dismissal went to the state attorney dismissed fur with well that and of course that further issue that she did afterwards the racial number that wasn't any racial that was a between her and the the lady like there was some damage and bleach poured and stuff like that we can't prove she did that it was the the the what she said was that when Corey wrote her that ticket he didn't listen to her and he did it because she was black it wasn't because she took down the lights it wasn't because he the person called the police to make a police report that her lights had been taken down it was that Cory took it on his own initiative to somehow do this because of a racial racial motivation and there was there was Zero evidence to indicate that that occurred I have a question for Lee when the state attorney decided not to file through the case did she still have to appear in court um it depends on when uh the dismissal was sometimes it could be in court um I was wonder when she said she had to pay a lawyer I mean if it was dismissed and nobody showed up in court right I'm not lawyer I'm I'm not like uh noticed of the criminal case but maybe you know I don't U I can tell you what it was dis just I'm curious in relation to that it can be dismissed at any time by the prosecutor I don't know when it was so for instance if the court date is today yeah I could receive a letter cuz it's 30 days from the arrest so the court dated within 30 days I could receive a letter saying that my case was dropped and I don't have to go to court um I'm just trying to look at the documents it should be in there of one the day it was dismissed um well he's looking it this is kind of akin to receiving a you know traffic citation you can perod to court fight it or pay the point or what not that's kind of it was no arrest and handcuffing it's here U I'm citing you for this and it is it does require a court appearance does it stay in her record yeah you can't pay off points or um if she was convicted but it was misdemeanor would be on her record but it was dismissed so there's nothing on her record and it goes away you know make I'll use myself if I got the ticket and I thought I was innocent I don't think I'd hire a lawyer I'd go and I'd explain it to the judge but that's the way I was taught to do things so I but I mean to hire a retain a lawyer just the other side to it is is I don't think there's any dispute that she damaged the lights and took them down I mean the the the if she actually went to trial she'd be found guilty I mean all the elements of criminal mischief had had occurred it was just that the state attorney rightfully recognized that escalating two neighbors over Christmas lights if he prosecuted her for that it would have ended up worse right over time that animosity would have grown and it would have turned into something worse so the state attorney balancing judgment said look this has been deescalate the matter is resolved I am not going to make these neighbors any worse off than they are with each other unfortunately there is a second event that occurred and I don't think there's a video or any specific evidence as to who did it or how it happened or what occurred so no one been charged with that so the way I read the court system it's called CCIS the arrest was made and filed on and the arrest is the citation the arrest is the citation she like I said didn't go to jail uh was it was made on 124 uh judge Steel Set the trial or set the uh arraignment date for January 4th and actually the case was closed and dismissed 12:27 so a week before she would have to even appear in before I had to I use myself and she filed this complaint on January 11th so that's after the fact I get it so I I I have a few questions okay are you finished I'm sorry I interrupt you um so we're we're up here to to determine what you what your consequences were so for the first one obviously he went to counseling for the second one no um um Punishment No it didn't result in any sort of um we didn't we didn't find he did anything wrong okay if you as a board disagree with us then you would actually have a motion to say I motion that I did find that he acted in a racially motivated way and here's why and here's what I think happened you can't issue a punishment one way or the other but you could in fact as a board have a finding that that we got it wrong and that because of our relationship with them or that our biases or whatever those might be caused us to miss it and therefore you could in fact find it and then what what happens after that occurrence I mean it does it reopen no it doesn't change because there's a under the state law and the police officer Bill of Rights that case would be double jeopardy and it's closed however so it would still be a record the city of Stewart would have this document for anybody else and if in fact this lady wanted to continue pursuing a claim against the city for being discriminated against this would be another piece of evidence that she could use in her civil litigation against the city to say yeah look an independent review board even found that there was a racial basis for this and does this stay on the officer's record that you know no action was taken but it was dismissed and you know everything was so yeah yeah I mean everything I'm just saying if we nothing goes away this this complaint will always exist against this officer regardless of what you find if you find that there that you agree with us the complaint doesn't go away the complaint still happened right but if we find we don't disagree we disagree with you it's just a disagreement in this file also there's no circumstantial well and the purpose right the purpose for it for us is that if you were to disagree with us the the code has you delineate the reasons why and that would assist the chief and I in administering the city and it would say to us listen Mike you didn't think that was racially motivated and these other residents of Stewart saw it in a different light you need to look at it from a different perspective and you need to pay closer attention because you're missing it and and you know you need to and the same for the chief and you need to you know personally I would you know do things differently maybe and I would you know go back and interview the neighbors and I would go back and find out exactly what happened and I would go back and and and and do things because you found that I the reason I didn't find that it was racially motivated was because Cory had no reason to go there he's just doing his job he gets dispatched because the owner of the lights called the police because she was vandalized he gets there she says I think it was so and so over here he probably knocks on the door or whatever in investigates it has words with the person that says yeah I vandalized it I had the right to take those you know I tore the lights down and threw them in the backyard or whatever I did and he says well you don't have a legal right to do that I have to issue a criminal mischief on you she had the right to put up those lights because she had gone to the board to give permission and I say to myself well if the woman that took down the lights was white or was Hispanic or was Jewish or Christian or whatever would he have acted differently or would he have treated it any differently right and my conclusion is no I mean he technically could have arrested her and in my mind if he was racist or he wanted to be mean to her that would have been the solution if you really want to do something to bother somebody put them in jail that that works but and I'm just asking this question because typically we always have where they've been to counseling they did this this is one of these cases where we just kind of let it go so I'm just wondering what the ramifications are if we decide different because it's we've we've always decided and I think you did is what is what you did is right I I'm I'm saying that I'm not going with that I'm just out of curiosity for future for what it's worth I don't want to promote people to continue filing him because obviously we don't we like it when there's none filed but but at the same time it it it actually actually helps me when we do have these filed because I have to slow down from my day-to-day stuff and I have to read through it and pay attention and then I have to look and say okay well did the chief of police follow the Tri Pro protocols like did Corey's supervisor first investigate it and then did his supervisor make sure and then it' go through you know to the chief right and this the pro process of procedure I have to review and then I have to go back at it and look at it from perspective of the victim which is the lady that called the police but I also then have to go back and look at it from the perspective of the person making this complaint that was charged with the ticket and regardless of what it are whether it's this one or whether it was the one where the police officer hung up on somebody um it makes you slow down and it makes you think about stuff you need to remind other people about and like the hang-up one believe it or not since I read that report in passing probably six times since I read that report I've been in other departments and I've made the comment of no matter what we know not to hang up on anybody you know just or whatever the randomness is so these these situ hearings or whatever they they have an effect no matter what even if there's no changes or even if you were to agree with us that there was no finding that there was a uh racial basis for it to me I really don't think there was a racial basis for it but it also tells me that the lady who received the citation feels very strongly and is very sensitive to that issue and whether there was one or not she thinks there was and and what what can we do to change that to to to build that trust and to make it so that no nobody thinks that it was and and whether it was or wasn't doesn't matter because the lady that wrote that report thinks it was you know and so what can I do to fix that no matter what and and and so each one of these things is a learning experience for us so so this whole thing right now is the dismissal of the citation but now we're on to a racial thing and was was was the officer okay racially is that what we're working question before this board right now is the complaint the complaint the racial complaint or the fact that she was taking down the not the lights that's just what happened okay because I don't know with being again HOA my only question is is I I'm on the board of my HOA someone can come up to me and in my board and my two other people on my board and say is it okay if I put my lights up oh I had a perfect thing is it you know no one asked me but if there was a real estate sign they're not allowed at my HOA she didn't ask any she she asked somebody who's on the board and put it up there was no meeting there was no nothing and it's part it's not part of our HOA board it's part of our bylaws agreed and so if it's part of the bylaws that there's not supposed to be things in common area and it's not a thing way to approve then she is not wrong well except to take them down she doesn't own them nobody has the right to just walk in and start taking the Landscaping down if they think it violates has the right to put it up either if it's not allowed by the by law that would be the question if you were a resident and you saw something in violation right you couldn't if somebody's car was parked in somebody else's spot you wouldn't call a towing company have their car towed away you'd go to the board and say that car is in the wrong place you don't have the legal authority to take it upon yourself to make those decisions you are supposed to go to the board to make that decision in this instance the lady that put up the lights actually did go to the board to the meeting got permission and did have authority from the board to put the lights up whether the bylaws said no well the bylaws don't it doesn't say they yes or no it's a common area the board authorized it it was allowed the lady that was against it if she she she doesn't have the authority to paint the railing a different color she doesn't have the ability to take the lights down if she didn't like the lights her Duty would be to go to the board and report it to the board no individual of an HOA has the author to do anything in a common area the board is the only person that has Authority in a common area so when she and again this is my thing I don't care if she had the right to take the lights down or not that part doesn't matter the steuart police officer is called he is given a set of facts based upon that set of facts he made the decision that this particular woman removed the lights as a result that equals criminal mischief the question before you is not whether she was guilty or innocent of that criminal mischief charge the question is did the steuart police officer issue the citation because she was black or did he issue the citation because he thought she removed the lights without permission and again going back to the HOA if the lady had the right to take the lights down or not doesn't matter if she had the right to take the lights down then she took them down why did she damage him I'm not sure but again the question is when the officer issued the citation he confirmed with the board that they had given her permission to put him up he confirmed with her that they were her lights he confirmed with the lady that took him down that no one gave her authority to take him down and as a result he issues he's like look this this amounts to criminal mischief I can't do anything else about it he issues the citation whether she get convicted of that or not doesn't matter to me under this circumstance because the issue before us is did this officer go there and when a woman of color answered the door did he then decide he was going to find her guilty of a crime okay or did he go there because somebody called for a criminal mischief complaint so this is not about the lies this is about if she if he she on Race okay because I I don't feel comfortable with the light situation but I do feel comfortable with the fact that he wasn't being racially profiling because of it so if it's a racial profile thing then I agree that I don't think that there should have been any reprimand because he was doing his job with two individuals whether they were whatever color they were then that's fine um I will motion to that but I will not I I I can't I don't if that's what we're motioning against but if we're motioning against the light thing you're not touching the lights and for what it's worth I wish I could tell the steuart police if the word common area comes across the phone don't respond that's what I was because yeah there's always that you know the condo association common areas are always terrible the the point of it is the officers are trying to deescalate it that's all they're ever trying to do right and in this instance if he had said to the lady that took down the lights sure you can do that to anybody you want in the whole area just go rip down everybody's Christmas ornaments it probably wouldn't have had a good outcome right so what he was trying to do is get everybody to slow down and go back to the board and figure out how you're going to move forward on this in the future rather than authorizing one over the other right and so my comment also would be there's a common theme here these were both HOAs and could we do a tutorial for the officers because it is very complicated and I know each place has its own set of rules and regulations but just kind of a general overview of like how things work common areas and responsibilities interestingly enough um Lieutenant Garwin is actually the president of his HOA so he knows the ins and outs and if I if I can just chime in real quick and I understand the concerns of and Mr mortell explained it very eloquently um if if an officer any officer with any tenure within my department makes an arrest based on race color creed we wouldn't be having this conversation corre it would be termination my job is to make sure that he follow policy law and did it in a fair and impartial Manner and in this case I believe he did and I should add it's not on the record anywhere but the chief has brought one of the captains with him to observe the proceedings it doesn't matter what the outcome is the reason for that is so that he can disseminate your guys's feelings and like your comment about you know the HOA stuff Z will be back at the police station making sure the rest of the staff gets the tenuous circumstances that arise under those for sure just from being here today but he would have done that anyway yeah I think she's right with everyone's HOA is different and if there's yet they're all the same oh yet they're all they all have them they all have yes they all have that person we all know who she who they are um you know them more than most um I have a statement please yes ma'am my thought as we talked about this is is her prob the complaint afterward and saying race you have black officers am M yes ma'am so what if that was a black officer which be fing r a relevant question and then that's and that's it's funny you say that Miss Clark because that's when I was looking at his report and I said how I have to look at it from the eyes of the complainer in the eyes of you know everybody one of the things I I said to myself is if Cory Lee the officer that did it if he was Black Or Hispanic or whatever would he have done something differently and the only thing that I could think of that any officer would have done differently is actually make an arrest because there was the legal basis you could have made an arrest I'm grateful that Corey didn't because I would hate to think we were arresting somebody over Christmas lights like that but if he did arrest them it wouldn't have been even then it wouldn't have been founded but when I was as Miss Clark was pointing out I thought to myself well what if one of the black officers had been responding to this how would they have acted here what would they have done here and I said to myself they would have issued a citation and just walked away from it and that's exactly what Corey did and that's one of the reasons I made the determination I made that I didn't believe it was racially motivated and I think that's a great check mark with everything almost that you guys do every day is in this situation because what would this person have done and even even if you need you bring in front of you know a white person a black person expand officer and say this is the circumstance that we have how would you have handled this and then have them write it down put it in a file and keep it for these s sort of situations we've talked to three of our our best officers and different diverse backgrounds and they all said the same thing and you can tell this woman and you can tell you know I mean it's a great way to have a little backup and say this is what we do at our department now when this actually happens and we feel racial profiling is a thing we can take our three people three different you know diverse backgrounds ask them how they present themselves and see what the response is and and as the chief said if anybody got an indication that there was any racial profiling at all of course it would be more than just asking three people in the department what they think it would be hell on Earth it would not be I mean there's zero tolerance for it especially this you just just you can't have somebody in your department that does that right well I think I've ruined most people's lunchtime so I'm going to go ahead and I'm going to motion that I think that he did the right thing and made the right judgment so I'm going to I second all in favor I all in favor I okay so and we've got we do have to go back to item number two the board reorganization the selection of chair and vice chair it's a new year all right um do we have any nom I think I would love to renominate you Anita I think you are fabulous and fantastic and you you look comfortable you play the parts and nice second go thank you very much okay thank you um and vice chair Nom Christ Vice chair I would be happy to be Vice chair yeah that would be fine Madam Madam chair you need to go back and vote on the chair first before get to the vice chair we have a vote on the chair all in favor I thank and vice chair I I have the vice chair was um the nomination was by um board member gch who seconded did we have a second did you second vote yeah I thought I did vot I thought we all second it can all second it one second we'll go ahead and take a vote on that all in favor fav I okay thank you is that both or is it and lastly just before we adjourn I know that we don't have regularly scheduled meeting and I know that they come randomly I just want to say the city really truly does appreciate you guys taking your time to volunteer and to show up for these um hearings because as you can see even from today it it it really does help in the administration of the city and it's an important role because it's it builds trust among the community to know that there's independent folks that do review these things and make sure that we're not going in in a the wrong direction or anything like that so thank you for is this something that they can come to or are they not allowed anybody's allowed to attend I mean these people could have come yeah sure it's open to the public we just don't allow the introduction of new evidence because it has to be based upon what was known at the time but they could be sitting right here I just feel like if this if they're so hard that that says something to me unfortunately you know but I don't know I do believe they receive a letter oh yeah they get notice of it I don't know why we're in 2023 still though that's the only it's she may not live here we don't even know what's happening in 2023 we'll fix that at the pleasure of the board I mean if I get one we can do one at a time I mean I was just trying to consol days entirely up to you 2023 is a little M it's just the officers he doesn't know what we're going to decide so really sign it is it matters it matters to the I mean because Bob with the phone you don't want that complain in your so you did you say a signature right you know that's the only thing you that's going in F and hanging over his head you may not think so but he's still thinking oh I wonder what those group what the group is going to do and I'm sure he is because Common Sense who knows for the board's information as well is that even exter even internal complaints so if a lieutenant or Sergeant writes up an officer it it remains in their file we have a full documentation if you pull up Joe tuminelli there's not going to be much in there because I was an angel I was like I can feel if you if you if you if you pull up an officer's name it'll give you anything that officer has done if someone complained if they were written up by a sergeant for no shiny shoes or whatever the case the only time that it has to come before for this board is if a citizen complains so we would be here a little bit more if I had to bring every complaint to you but um the only time and it's by law that I have to do this as well is bring these citizen complaints but for whoever asks that question of do we keep documentation the answer is yes and it's it's in their file you know we we spoke Mike Michael um last year and Mary I think that you're part of it there was there was something that had to do with where the complaints were going into the City and there were some way we were going to facilitate something different with the do you remember that it's always the police essentially but it doesn't have to that's not over here the code isn't the police that's what it was so for what it's worth after that meeting I did speak to the department directors and I went and took the form that the police department uses and said to them look you need to have the same form because right now if you walk into the police department as a citizen and say I want to make a complaint against any officer they hand you this form and have you fill it out the other departments weren't doing that and as a result it wasn't coming forward but I've talked to some of the other directors and they did have the form and they were doing it but when they tell the person if you want to write a formal complaint that will be reviewed by a board about the person the people back off and don't want to they don't want to be involved they don't want to the thing is I think in the police side of it it it arises to a civil liberties concept and like it's a criminal investigation and the person like if somebody's late getting their permit although they're frustrated that it's late the person making the complaint doesn't want to arise to a public hearing and the whole thing because they got their permit and they're moving on but when someone feels like their civil liberties were imp imp acted that person does want a follow through on the complaint and they do want a pound of Flesh so to speak and it just for whatever reason we just aren't getting people just won't fill out the form in the public works department or if someone has a complaint about a garbage b or whatever they don't in theory that would come here right that would if they filled out the form and the form is in each department and that's for the city the city not like this this um store owner was very disgruntling mean that wouldn't come to this correct it would just be through the city through the a city employee okay and so right now there's a um lady that came to a city commission meeting a few weeks ago um and is mad at Dave dis and I and how could that be I know um I could I could understand the Dave Das part I thinking the other way around um but in any event she has asked for the form and I sent her the one for the police department and she responded back no I want the one for other people I and I explained to her know it's the same form it just says steuart police on can we modify that form so they're not but I suspect that it'll be coming back and you'll be having a hearing um in the next six months or so actually and it won't be a police officer that'll be the subject of it but I think that it should be changed to not now theity form I didn't have a blank form so I just did it to get it the make sure she didn't come I wanted her to have it that day so she didn't say I delayed she did I believe I believe she was before the board time she didn't ever make it on the police officer because Dave Ross canel that hearing that's okay any EV there's a very good chance you'll have one this year that's not a um police officer but as the chief said when we started that this is a good thing that we don't get together that often because yes I mean it's a positive that we don't see you perod right and and it it's funny too because it's I we had them a lot more oh go um before we had chest cameras and then when we had the chest cameras we had a few that were in the beginning it was we had one one time where it said the officer got out of his car and jerked me out of the car and his belt scratched my door and it was before they knew we had video and then at the hearing we had the video of the whole thing and the officer didn't touch the car didn't jerk anybody out of the car walked up and said sir you're getting a ticket for speeding because you were going 25 miles over the speed limit or what it was just completely the opposite of what the report said and back at the time Dave Das was the chief of police and I said to Dave I said do you think the chf's cameras are showing that the residents lie or do you think that it's changing the behavior of the police I both and he said right that's what our conclusion was that anybody knows they're being videotaped behaves differently and the good news is that everybody seems to be behaving appropriately and as a result with the a the video and audio of 99% of these events the uh and there was video on at least one of these we didn't produce it because yeah there there's nothing to show but we could have if you requested it um but as a result those the ability to have this video of what actually occurred has made 90% of them go away because there is no dispute about the facts and you know obviously we have the ability to produce the video if if it um is necessary and if you guys want to see the video and I think in your packet you mentioned that we could produce the video if you were interested the one woman asked for the video and the complaint and that's what I thought well if she saw the video she would no B work but the problem is they produced the video but the complaints already made yeah and that might be why she didn't come but the fact is she didn't withdraw the complaint either no so we have to go forward do you have the equipment to be able to um automatically upload from from um the body cam as you drive into the uh station uh I think well I can tell you that if they dock it into their docking station it will I don't think we have the Wii to where it automatically docks in okay yeah that's more money that's more M I know it's more money but you can put that in the budget the company that we have the contract with maintains all of the videos I don't know if it's 30 or 60 days it depends on what the case well I mean like no matter what no case like today's video from the police off doesn't get deleted today right I think it's 30 days 100% of the video is maintained for 30 days no matter what so somebody could go back and request that video for any purpose for I think it's 30 it might even be 60 it's actually it's actually 60 or 90 if it doesn't get categorized as a crime there's a category it becomes an event they hold it for a year but if the guy if an officer was just walking down the sidewalk and his video camera was on it will it will drop off keep a car of data oh yeah I mean you've got that in the cloud but still public records nightmare I have one single person doing just video surprised you only have one and it's a off of that it keeps them busy oh yeah so I'm sure you have a lot more strike that gav please all right ad Jour thank you all for thank you all for coming