##VIDEO ID:t611Yr9MPTg## e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e we'll call the meeting to order um we have roll sure chairman zooker here Vice chairwoman balson Alvarez here Mr spur here Mr felet is expected but not yet present council member Hamlet is excused Mr dalmaso is is excused Miss McGee is excused Mr forelli here Mr stern here Mr Bell here miss Bowen is expected but not yet present and then we have Mr fiser in in for Mr Warner tonight you have a quarum you may proceed all right thank you now for the adequate notice statement in accordance with New Jersey statute 10 4-10 adequate notice of this meeting has been provided to a newspaper of record and has been posted here in City Hall please be advised this is a no smoking building fire exits are to my right and your left and the back of the room this is a scheduled meeting of the planning board there may be other meetings currently running simultaneous with this meeting if you're not here for the summit planning board your meeting May upstairs or elsewhere in the building um we can do the uh Pledge of Allegiance please join us I pledge aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all okay let's see we'll save the minutes for later uh first on the agenda is a public hearing we have uh saf Summit LLC for 367 Springfield Avenue good evening um Hillary s from DC D and Shen representing the africant saf 367 Summit LLC regarding property located at 367 Springfield Avenue loock 1908 Lot 1 in the crbd zone the building that is the subject of this application I believe everyone knows as the old Bank of America building on the corner of Springfield Avenue and Beachwood Road recognizing the historical and Architectural significance of this building the improvements proposed have been carefully and thoughtfully designed to ensure that they would not alter or change the historical character and AR tal Heritage of the existing building the improvements include a 913 ft Edition on the third floor that is set back from Springfield Avenue and tucked behind the existing parit wall relocation of rooftop rooftop mechanical equipment a new exit door and interior Renovations this proposal allows for the Adaptive reuse of an existing building that preserves the Integrity of the site and historical architecture of the building while providing in high quality office and retail space in the heart of downtown Summit the subject site is fully developed and no site improvements are being proposed the improvements that are proposed are fully conforming with the development regulations ordinance of summit and the applicant only seeks minor site plan approval with waivers the presentation this evening will begin with Kieran Flanigan as representative for the applicant followed by the architect Nancy Dy since there is no site improvements proposed it is not the intention um to have the civil engineer present any direct testimony but he is here in case the board has any questions thank you um you like to call your first witness sure Karen plan again hi everybody please raise your right hand you swear to tell the truth the whole truth to nothing but the truth so help you good yes okay your sworn uh Kieran flan my last name f l i n a g n you may want to move the mic up because they're not okay that better what is your occupation I'm a real estate developer um and what is your relationship to the applicant of the subject property I'm a principal at saxum real estate uh and we're part owners of the property and are you authorized to speak on behalf of the applicant yes um and in this capacity have you brought an application before the board with regard to property located at 367 Springfield Avenue yes can you provide the board with a brief history of the site um as you said it's the old Bank of America building it's a great building um right the center of town built in 1928 Benjamin white was the architect and uh that's really it I mean is there anything else you want me to say um can you briefly describe the existing conditions and the prior use of the property um yeah it's it's it's the old Bank building um it's got a historic designation it's fully developed it's in the crbd zone three stories um and it was a bank you know it was a as many of you may know it was a Bank of America for years and years and uh so was first floor was retail Banking and the second and third floors were uh support office areas for the uh Bank of America and the basement storage I mean I think historically it was like that's what booths yeah C you know uh coupon booths or whatever they call them but that's been yeah there's a vault down there yeah and um what was the existing F uh 218% okay and can you tell the board what the objective was for this property um we love the building uh we really wanted to you know just renovate it modernize it on the interior needs some uh needs some work on the inside um adaptive reuse repurposing the existing building uh you know to preserve the Integrity on the outside uh which is important to us and uh but also to you know make it into uh something that'll be useful for other tenants down the road so in an effort to meet the objective objectives just stated can you describe for the board what is proposed in this application uh as you mentioned we're planning on a 9113 squ ft addition on the roof on the third floor and um you know really on the interior it's just modernizing all the infrastructure um you know making sure that we are you know really not not doing anything to the detriment of the building or the building's character on the outside and uh just making a little bit more efficient and then uh you know I think I think Nancy will talk more about specific about our Renovations but that's about it okay and with regard to the rooftop areas um is there any anticipated use of this area as an amenity space no okay and what uses are contemplated for this building uh office and Retail back of the building would be office uh pretty standard office space um and then the front would be or in front of that the moding wall would be retail okay um and can you tell the board if this application complies with the off street parking requirements in the crbd and what is proposed in terms of parking for tenants and visitors to the site uh yeah I mean it will complain it will comply just like uh it did previously um you know tenants will use the parking you know get uh parking permits and park in the public Lots um that are pretty close in proximity to the um building itself and the same thing with visitors there's I think three Municipal lots that are correct close proximity yeah directly behind yep um and is there any signage proposed as part of this application no okay um and what about the trash and recycling collection and pickup uh trash would be private hauler uh be brought up from the basement um and then just loaded directly onto a garbage truck okay um and are there any variances associated with the improvements proposed no and did you have an opportunity to review the administrative comments yes so with regard to the construction officials review does the applicant agree as a condition of approval to comply and provide the requested plans referenced in that review as required by applicable New Jersey codes and statutes yes and then regarding the comments does the applicant agree to take responsibility for maintaining the three tree pits adjacent to the subject property on beach forood Ro yes and did you retain any experts to help you in the preparation and presentation of this application yes uh Nancy dhy from Studio 1200 and Eric Keller from uh was a civil engineer I don't have any other questions thank you for who you're with now uh well actually hold on hold on Sir first first of all do we have any questions from the professional staff no I do not actually was gratifying I from the questions questions obvious that my report was R and they answered the question that I had in my report okay um at this point I don't have any questions for this witness and um you know same same here I I think they they read our reports so uh how about the board there was one question for confirmation from the HBC on the windows so the architect will uh speak to that got it any other questions from the board for this witness no how about from the public anyone from the public have a question for this witness all right thank you thanks a lot so next witness is Nancy Dy please raise your right hand yes do you swear tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but to help you back I do all right here thank you sure Nancy the last name is Dar d o u g h e r t y um good evening board I members of the board do you you want to go through her qualifications first is that uh how about just some basic introductory qualifications sure okay okay sure um I'm a licensed architect I'm a principal at Studio 1200 owner and principal at Studio 1200 in Short Hills New Jersey I've been practicing architecture since um 1995 I'm licensed in multiple States my license in New Jersey is in good standing um I've testified in numerous municipalities including Summit I don't know that I've testified in front of the planning board but certainly the zoning board many times well thank you I think it might be your first time at least in might you're here we can accept Miss Dy as a expert and architect thank you thanks okay um so good evening board um as described by Kieran Flanigan this application is for a warm shell Renovations and a small third floor addition that are required to transform this historic Bank building into a fully accessible multi-tenant building appropriate for future retail a future retail tenant on the first floor in basement and office use on Floors two and three um my testimony will be based on site inspections review of the ordinance review of summit's design guidelines and historic preservation um recommendations conferences with the applicant and the civil engineer as well as preparation of the architectural plans and the exhibits you'll see tonight um we're going to start with uh this is actually the The Bowman survey it was submitted I don't know if you want to um tag it as an as an exhibit it was part of the application it's stated 7724 have but we'll just we'll label the whole presentation that you're going are you going do so there we can label the whole thing then okay that's perfect um so as was mentioned the legal owner is saf 367 7 Summit LLC it is uh block 1908 Lot 1 and it's located in the crbd zone um the site is 6,653 square ft and it's entirely built out with the building and paved areas the building is three stories with a building footprint of 6,259 square ft um the construction classification is 2b and the building will be fully sprinklered um the existing height above average grade is 39.6 ft where 42 ft is permitted um there's one street tree on Springfield Avenue and three Street trees on Beachwood um the gas sewer and electric uh all enter the building on Beachwood and there'll be no change to where the utilities go into the building um in addition there will be no change to the building footprint and there are no site improvements proposed so um we're going to go now to uh one sorry one clarification is this the present uh structure not sprinkler um part part of the existing structure is sprinkler it will be fully sprinkler correct yes thank you um so perfect as everybody knows uh so this this is labeled existing site photos and dated 121 1824 um as everybody knows this is one of the classic iconic downtown buildings in Summit um the Springfield and Beachwood facades have a smooth ashler finish with beige brick um at the alley the bank Bing Hall is double height with columns at the main entrance along Springfield Avenue um the excuse me the roof is capped with a stone parit and an impressive Stone ballustrade the existing windows are single pan painted steel with a combination of stationary and oper operable panels the existing RW iron railing on Beachwood will remain and it will be repainted in a bronze color to match the new windows the only changes to the building exterior will be the third floor um addition which is 913 Square ft the relocation of the HVAC equipment from the existing roof uh to the third floor roof the highest roof and the new exit door and security light at the alley off of Beachwood the existing ceiling fixture at Spring at the Springfield um Avenue entrance will remain as will the existing scon at the Beachwood um road entrance and they will both be refurbished there is no exterior signage as was mentioned being proposed as part of this application um if we go to the next this is just labeled site context so I know everybody's very familiar with this corner as we all know it's a prominent location and there are sort of classic buildings on three of the Four Corners um also shown in this exhibit is just uh 40 Beachwood which underwent a major renovation a few years ago now I would like to spend a little time on the site history which is always um interesting and and where we start with the these projects so um as was mentioned it the building is located in summit's downtown historic district and it is a nationally and state registered um building and listed as contributing so here we have two of the old sandborn Maps they're hard to see at this scale and also um from the New Jersey uh DP office of um Heritage for individual structurers survey that is what you see on the Le hand side and I thought it was just easiest to quote from there so this is the the uh part about this building the summit Trust Company first opened an office on this site in 1898 uh photographs show that the early building was an Eclectic mix of Queen Anne and Romanesque features unfortunately I don't have that because that wasn't in the report uh for the 30th year of the bank's operation the structure was entirely redesigned so what exists today was constructed in 1928 that's what we're seeing um as was mentioned the architect was Benjamin V white who designed many homes in Summit and was a resident of the community the bank is a late use of the neoclassical style but it is a finely designed building and incorporates the correct use of classical features into a functional commercial building so I didn't write that but that's what they say um it's an interesting description right a little dry but um okay we followed the design guide Principles for additions to Historic structures as noted in summit's development design guidelines and its summary of the Secretary of the Interior standards for rehabilitation in particular number nine um in those standards uh and I'm quoting new additions exterior alterations or related new construction shall not destroy historic materials that characterize the property the new work shall be differentiated from the old and shall be compatible with the massing size scale and Architectural features to protect the historic inte of the property and its environment and then um item number 10 says new additions and adjacent related new construction shall be undertaken in such a manner that if removed in the future the essential form and integrity of the historic property and its environment would be unimpaired so that's what we were uh very um purposefully following those guidelines and finally the the um Secretary of the Interior standards also talk about improving Energy Efficiency and so there will be new insulated Windows throughout I'll give you the specifics um in a little bit but um that and the new rooftop equipment uh should will do um wonders for the building in terms of its Energy Efficiency as it as it gets populated in the future um so now I just want to run through the statistics this is the submission set that's dated 10524 um so starting on zo1 uh just a few statistics as was mentioned the building is four floors three of which are above ground um the existing and proposed gross floor areas for the building excluding mechanical spaces um total the existing is 14,474 square ft and the proposed is 16,6 12 square ft and that includes an addition of 913 Square ft on the third floor building coverage and loot coverage have not changed from the 92.3% um and the floor area ratio has increased from 218 to 250% uh since this building is a compliant use 300% is the maximum allowed if for the F so there is no variance required for f um now going through the plans uh again I know people are familiar with this building so we'll go we'll go pretty quickly um so the first floor has the banking Hall which I'm sure everybody is familiar and then there's support offices at the rear there is that um quite magnificent open stair that goes down to the basement the fire stair that accesses all levels and there is a small elevator in the building the basement um has vaults down there I I forgot to mention there's also a big Vault on the first floor um the basement has multiple vaults it has viewing rooms for the safe deposit boxes bathrooms storage and mechanical space um if we go up to go to sheet Z3 which is the existing and second third floors uh the second floor had Bank offices and bathrooms and it had the void of the double height banking hall and then finally on the third floor there was a a small area of office office area um with the elevator and the stair that accessed that space and then finally the roof uh so the roof has um is at three different elevations which are labeled on our drawings as front middle and high so I certainly can't read what's up on that screen but I know you all have the drawing so the front roof uh that the height of that is at 424.10 N3 and the high roof is 4 so now let's go to the proposed plans um so the proposed as I said the intention of this application is that it's a warm shell um so that it will be ready for leasing to future tenants and the idea is that the first floor and the basement um any basement areas that are not for storage will be part of that retail tenant and then uh the back of the first floor will be um uh Lobby space with a new stair and a new elevator and then the second and third floors will be for um an office tenant um so all of the interior walls that are not structural the intention is to remove those so that we create this warm shell envelope uh for potential new tenants um as I said there'll be a new stair and an elevator um the bathrooms and trash will be located on in the basement so to for the first floor in the basement um the existing Elevator Shaft will be Pres Reserve so it can be used as mechanical space um and then finally the window that is furthest from the street in the alley has been converted to an accessible entrance from that side of the building and it provides um egress a second egress out of the retail space which doesn't exist currently um so if we go up to the the sheet Z6 that's the proposed second and third floor plans um on the second floor we have created an open floor plan with an you will see there's a a bathroom adjacent to the new stair and the elevator core um and there's also a small amount of mezzanine space when you walk in the front doors of the banking Hall that's also being removed so um it will just be open space in the in the banking Hall as I said the third floor is being expanded by 913 square fet and it's basically taking up the space of the middle roof if you will um and it will include the the overall floor plate on the third floor will include a bathroom the two exit stairs and the elevator and the addition will be clad in glass which I will show you in a moment um and then finally if we go to zo7 the roof plan the the new hbac equipment is going to be moved from the middle roof to the high roof um and there will be screening all the way around it uh the proposed equipment is 8.4% of the overall roof area where 15% is permitted um I know there was a question in one of the reports the screening is approximately 3et from the equipment so well within the 10 ft that uh there was a question about um the roof access will be as it is right now coming up through that existing Penthouse um the roof drains for the third floor Edition will tie into the existing as we have an increase the the um roof area and finally I think it was already mentioned the roof will not be used by tenants it's only for equipment um and we'll just have equipment access um so now and there's on the roof plan is also the the uh specs for the equipment that's going up on the roof so let's go to the existing elevations which are sheet bo8 um and I'm just going to give you a couple statistics so we can follow these when we get to the proposed elevation so okay the top of the existing Penthouse is at 24.05 FT sorry my apologies the top of the existing Penthouse is 24.05 ft tall um with an elevation of 444.hu implies but if you took it above it's it's split in between the middle and the high roof um so next I would like to present the rendered elevations and we have um blown them up and taken the dimensions off of them just for clarity so you can understand the design then I'll quickly go through um the drawing that was submitted with the statistics so I'm going to start with the East Elevation which is the one facing Beachwood because it's the easiest to understand what the design is doing um so this shows the extent of the glass um box on the on that's sitting on the roof um when I had read the historic preservation sort of guidelines it was very important to the team that this box sits back it's behind that um ballast rod and it sits behind that uh the the portion of glass is approximately 10 ft high and then um comes down behind that ballast rod and I'll show you that in a moment and it sits on a 12inch stucco curb um behind the glass Bo and and just to speak to the windows the windows will all be replaced so they're going to be uh the company is called universal windows uh they will be a combination of fixed and operable panels similar to what's there right now um and all of the Mion patterning will match what exists currently um the specifications we did have uh correspondence with the historic preservation commission and Caroline King has sent us a very extensive email with some recommendations so we followed all of those um in terms of color um mulon size Etc so I think uh she was very helpful in that memo um in terms of of what we should be doing with the windows um the just uh the addition up there will be clad with an old class old castle um curtain wall system so it's butt blazed um so it will just appear here as sort of a seamless um glass box up there it will have glass that um matches the color of the new windows so they will be coordinated um let me just see yep and I spoke about that okay um let me just make sure I'm not missing anything okay you can see here so the existing um um bulkhead uh the one that Marissa is pointing to that's the existing one that's 24.05 ft tall to the right of that is the new um elevator bulkhead and also the screening for the um the HVAC equipment and all the way on the right here that's the existing chimney that is in beige brick that matches the existing building so there is we are doing nothing below where this um glass box is going on the roof um okay let's go to the Springfield Avenue one so on Spring Field Avenue you won't actually see the addition it is um 68 ft back from the Springfield facade uh so it's not visible at all from Spring I mean you'd have to be you'd have to be a drone or something you know we got to have a little drone humor right um anyway so you won't see it from Springfield Avenue um but that's what the front we're not making any changes to the front of the building let's go to the next one so this is actually a section it's a little bit harder to read but I think this helps to show what you're seeing in the big black box is actually the banking Hall that's a double height space and then this addition is sitting on top of there um and as I said the glass is approximately 10 feet high and it has a 12 in um stucko curb that it's sitting on and then you're seeing behind it um the existing bulkhead and then the new elevator bulkhead and the enclosure for the HVAC equipment and the chimney all the way in the back um and then finally let's go to the the alley um again you're seeing that stuff from the other side so this is the facade um in the alley the only thing that's being done is that we are adding a door so that we have um an another exit coming out of the retail space and there is a light that's at 8 feet I know there was a question about what height it's at so it's 8 ft above the ground it is shielded so it only shines light down but it has to be there because it's an emergency exit um so that covers all of that um so just um I just wanted to say the HPC feedback which I think it is worth um just mentioning and I'm quoting here the HBC believes this is a to be a good example of adaptive reuse and the preservation of the downtown's street Scapes streetscape excuse me and supports this application so um I wanted to get that in there so now we're just going to look at z9 which are the proposed elevations that were submitted um so the building height above average grade has increased from 39.6 ft to 41.836899 72 ft where 47 ft is allowed and finally the maximum app pertinence height which I already testified about um is an existing non-conformance at 25 24.05 ft where 15 ft is allowed um so I don't know if there's any questions about the statistics before we go on or you want me to I I just have a couple more comments on the materials and then or we can come back to questions um so let's just go to the last sheet there so this is Z10 the exterior materials um so we've included the specifics about the exterior materials um it does have the specifics about the windows the glazing system that's being used um on the rooftop addition uh and as I said before the windows comply with the feedback um were based on the feedback we got from the HPC they will be painted a bronze color so they will be dark bronze as will that fence as I mentioned and then the bulkhead are a um the color Marissa of the it's mentioned in there sorry I should remember yes Kendall it's a historic preservation color it's called Kendall charcoal so any of the stucco elements on the roof will be that as will the screening um enclosure for the rooftop equipment um so I think that's that so just a couple of final comments the addition and Renovations will meet the building code the required building codes for fire ratings and Fire separ operations including fire resistance rating requirements based on the fire separation distance at to the lot line I know the the building the construction official had put that language in there which we know and and will certainly comply um as I said before the building will meet all requirements for handicap accessibility so it will have a new larger elevator and full compliance for um all floors of the building and in conclusion there are no variances required for this project and as was mentioned before there's no off street parking that's required either thank you very much um questions from the board Mr B okay couple of small questions for you um is this property connected to 40 Beach wood um there is a there's a uh I don't what we want to call it Bridge a sky Bridge right yes not part of this property it's on the right it's beyond the property line but there's I guess just so I understand the use of the property it maybe it's a question for the applicant is it possible that it would be rented and that pedestrians would flow between the two buildings I I just a question yeah they're separated right now do you want to come so I mean it's potential I mean it could be it could be reactivated but it's deactivated now is what you're saying it's not connected right right okay more curiosity a resident anything so thank you um in terms of the Mechanicals on now the high roof I'm not entirely I'm trying to imagine the building directly to the left if I'm looking at the frontage um is this with the Moval the removal of the Mechanicals from that mid tier to the high tier impact potentially in terms of noise even with the buffering that's going to be put in place any potential negative impact on the neighboring property I no imagine there more mod equipment quiet anyhow right know moving it up would I'm not sure what's on that highest of the building it's residential I presume I don't know I'm not sure if you know that I don't know that but um we're set back from the property line pretty significantly I think I think it's behind it's going to be behind that building anyway you know know if there's or anything no there's nothing in the back there and again the the equipment definitely will be quier more energy efficient and I think the barrier will also help for sure do any noise and then uh you've provided a number of renderings not really from The Pedestrian perspective because it's not relevant frankly from Springfield Avenue or that Beachwood right maybe from DeForest some of the Mechanicals would be visible but not over that building there's no real negative visual impact from any conceivable angle right no so I just was curious if you'd consider real true street level rendering kind of that perspective but I not sure I mean the right the reason we chose to do this was so we could see all the detail of the you know sort of historic elements of the building um and then my my last question is I learned a new pH today warm shell um yeah just can you explain a little bit what the spectrum of potential uses of it are reference to retail and office of course sure but is there a range of examples you could provide of potentially how this very unique building would be used used I've heard rumors of restaurants and all kinds of exciting things um but tell me a little bit from your experience how this site could potentially be used be occupied sure I mean so um the testimony is that it would be for retail use on the first floor so a permitted use with um using the first floor and a portion of the basement so as I said there'll be bathrooms and then storage and trash and other things in the basement so any typical downtown permitted use retail use could be in there um and then second and third floors would be office space okay great thank you mhm Mr thank you I want to add my commendations to the testimony so far and the written reports including from the historic preservation uh commission uh plans are excellent and I wanted to also read into the record the fact that you're very modest about your credentials 2023 New Jersey AI architect and um on your website your firm's website it shows some very sensitive um new and and adaptive reuse buildings including marown South Street um and this gives great credibility to the proposal uh which very happy to see that said I have a few questions sure uh because um while I used to serve on the historic preservation commission I always wondered why people didn't try to do more than they're doing um there's a three twoot difference between the lowest roof and the middle roof was there any thought given to extending further to the South than the filling out the uh missing tooth if you will of the third floor not having the same footprint as the second floor [Music] um there was discussion I would say at the beginning but I think from a planning perspective so there are a couple things right in terms of those elevations of those roofs figuring out what actually made sense there and so the the front roof if you will is higher right than the middle roof about 3 feet or so a little bit uh yeah it's actually right it's about I think it's about four feet because when I had to get up there it it was a scene right when I had to Ho myself yeah um so the discussion was that it really didn't make sense because we didn't want to jeopardize the ceiling of the banking hall right because if we had gone further forward based on the floor the you know the floor elevation at the back yeah we would have had to um sort of destroy the banking and it's awward to make the change going higher yeah so leaving that's what I assumed you know just if it were allowable by variance or otherwise on the F you uh would have added a whole lot more potential office space possibly on the second and third floors that could have uh potentially brought in more income who knows right but that said the potential for using the low roof if you will over the banking Hall over the ceiling of the uh banking Hall it's twofold one bring in more or a different kind of natural light uh doesn't seem to be any indication of that on the proposed ceiling plan proposed roof plan right or uh with all the uh testimony you gave about enhanced environmental characteristics uh bringing in solar on a effectively a south facing roof with nothing particularly High across the street right uh were those considered or could they still be considered or the cost include that maybe that's not a question for you that's probably a question over year so your colleague is hitting right and I and I would say that the you know the warm shell the the you know intention of this warm shell was to get the the the bones of the building ready so that it could be leased and as we know somebody could come back with something you know a tenant could want to make other improvements in the building and they would have to come back obviously to the appropriate board so I think that's okay two more questions I won't delor it um you mentioned in your testimony that the building will be 100% um accessible meeing presumably all Ada and other code requirements yes um there's a ramp indicated without designation of uh slope uh um for the front entrance which I think I recall is visually recall as having one step is the banking Hall isn't that great so there's there's one step on Springfield Avenue to get into which is a tripping Hazard so now I see it slopes up but so the the the the entrance on Springfield Avenue is has a step right right the the accessible entrance is on Beachwood where there's a Lobby and there's a fully accessible ramp there all well that that leads into the second uhuh of two or maybe three questions though uh any multi-story building where there's a very primary Frontage um and um kind of a ancillary if you will entrance to back of the house space as as I would characterize currently and in future the Beachwood entrance to the second and third floors the connection is a little bit tenuous you know um if that is the accessible entrance to whatever the retail space with its primary ENT insance by architecture and Logic on on Springfield Avenue um I see how the plan has changed from the ramp connection that was there before I never used that ramp although I banked there um uh never used that side entrance uh that side entrance is primarily for the second and third floor tenants uh I don't know if who would have a well it is a building common Lobby so I we we had a lot of discussion about the accessibility into the building so the only way to sort of get a ramp on Springfield Avenue if you look at the way the granate sits at that entrance um there there would have to be some serious work done to that entrance um and in um honoring sort of the Integrity of the building the decision was made if you look at the entrance on Beachwood that entrance even though it is secondary right when it was designed I mean it's you just look at the architecture there's no there's no there's no getting around that but it's a pretty um uh I would say it's a very well detailed entrance um it has a the one thing that I did not mention is it has a really crappy door right now and that it will be replaced so it will have a beautiful new door and the the existing door was actually built in so if you go over there and look at it that will be replaced and last question I guess has to do with adaptive reuse of structures of this kind particular particularly uh banking halls and the most famous adaptive reuse if you will in Manhattan is Manny Han uh which was very very contentious at landmarks preservation commission um for a variety of reasons uh building for those not familiar with it is on 43rd Street Fifth Avenue fronting on Fifth Avenue and uh landmarks preservation Commission in New York insisted on uh the bank vault which was visible from the east facing window uh being retained in what is now a a clothing store uh the biggest controversy though was not so much that the retailers agreed to that heartily uh was the direction of the stair uh and that's what I want to get at in terms of the as you described it glorious there going down to the safe deposit vaults uh uh I don't know if you're going to be doing the interior design or not looks like your firm has done that for other Comm clients U I won't that's a question irrelevant to this commission but but um do you see that's there remaining in perpetuity uh no matter what the use is on the basement or that depends entirely on the future depend it depends on that it does depend on the tenant um so you know it's a it would be great if it stays but I I can't speak to that because it really depends on the ten and hypothetically again speaking hypothetically Beyond what anyone knows perhaps at this point is if if the highest and best use is a restaurant not not a clothing store you know or a ski shop or nail salon if the highest best use is presumably restaurant um are any considerations given to how how the kitchen or ventilation would take place or is that way premature um I think right now again the intention is retail so right that's all right yeah all right well I'll finish by commending you again in the project and I look forward to seeing it thank you any other thoughts from the board just maybe John I'm not sure who to direct this question to but following up on Mr Bell's comment is it outside the purview maybe the attorney can answer this question um is it outside the purview of the board to condition the acceptance of this application on the preservation of the staircase interior it's an interior characteristic I'm not saying Pro or con but considering it's a minor site plan with no relief required my answer would be no okay I tried that's on the record anyone want thank you I did have some questions about the interior but I wanted to thank you for for uh talking about the historic preservation commission and working with them on Windows the windows are Monumental and super important to the character of this building so the fact that you're putting them back in the same configuration the same appearance is phenomenal thank you thank you you Mr owner over there um please paint the fence black because it would never be a bronze color um think about it anyway it's a recommendation it's not a requirement um and getting bronze right in a finish coat on what I presume are painted windows and not bronze is going to be tough so it's just it's it's difficult to achieve a good so do a mockup or whatever for sure yeah yeah um and then with regard to the interior can you just share with us not that we can do much about it but can you share with us what's in the interior currently is it a Tazo floor is it a marble floor is it a are what's the vestibule isn't it uh bronze sort of I haven't been in there in a long time I'm seeing nodding over there right it's a trazo floor and it has uh decorative plaster coffered ceiling yes correct yes um what's the general condition of the Interior I mean I you know I don't know if um it's INE hasn't taken care is the intent to leave it in there and see what a tenant wants to do in the space overall or is the intent to sort of take it out immediately as part of are you preemptively taking it all white boxing or or warm sh no meaning the ceiling no we think that we want to keep as much as possible well actually you should be up here speaking to the intent yes okay uh the intent is to keep that that big beautiful ceiling uh you know intact and going that's one of the reasons why we didn't mess with going out on top CU even doing the structural you know studies we'd have to tear it apart um so we just want to keep that we think it's very attractive and then you know the perimeter walls are all you know they're pretty cool they're fluted and all sorts of nice stuff so that's all going to be attractive we want to keep it as much as possible and then clear out the partitions and stuff like that to open it up right and so what did some of the other materials there's bronze um something bronze as you walk in in that vestibule right a secondary door and yeah lot of character there too to replicate that now would cost hundreds of thousands of dollars yeah um the my last question is nothing to do with your application but because you're doing nice work and you're wanting to keep the character of this building uh have you considered a historic tax credit because this is an eligible building in a national register district and the state has one too okay now so it's something to definitely consider yeah I will I didn't even know that know a little about that you talk to me about it we're now your favorite board yeah exactly um I just had a question uh there's no signage being requested in this and I understand that a tenant may want their own branded signage and stuff but it'll have to be conforming to the uh the general rules of the town and to the zoning conforming did you consider though coming in with sort of a signage design that would have sort of fit your vision of the historical preservation of the building that way you would have really locked it in or at least the locations kind of saying where you want them how big you want them you could do that yeah well I mean we don't know what the actual tenant is going to want um you know Bank of America took their signs down uh I imagine that they complied so we kind of presume that somebody that coming in would do something similar to what back of America had and I'm sure that you could work with the tenant to um explain to them the importance of the historic character of the building and try to help them Lo locate the sign in a place that you would feel comfortable with yeah you could even put that in your lease yeah the you have design review on their signage yeah I we whoever no matter who's and there's people that have come by and taken a look at it um we've stressed the the the fact that this is a jewel in the middle of summit I think everybody can appreciate that so we're not going to let anything obnox just go up there okay good thank you the professionals uh two simple points one could you confirm that the retail space will be minimally 1500 square fet per code yes number one okay and number two just for the board's clarification in the construction officials excuse me the zoning officers report we were talking about this before the meeting uh he implies that there's a variance needed for Exceed the 15% Factor the 15% Factor actually applies to Rooftop ofart is only you know mechanical equipment and the like and they do in fact comply thank you so I have one very simple question I think um because you've covered everything so well could you talk anything about any roof leaders um are you just going to bring them down to the existing roof and then follow the exist PA out yes yeah so they're no gargoyles no they don't exist and we're not adding any that might even be appropriate right not go thank you any uh questions from the members of the public for this witness seeing none I think we can now Talk Amongst ourselves M thank you thank you for your testimony thank you so who any you don't have anybody else no nobody else all right um risk of being redundant um every project where uh an approval of some nature is required should seriously consider solar in the stain age and it saddens me a little bit in a project this excellent and the sensitive where that is not um done where it could so easily be done in the low roof so it's a recommendation not a requirement solar panels to defray some of your energy cost over the long time over the long term you you you have the low roof over the banking Hall which doesn't have a grand and glorious Skylight as far as I recall could you know maybe a restorator would want that or somebody else would want that but if you have that low roof which is pretty much devoid of mechanical equipment as far as I could tell the roof plant is silent on that um be very easy to add lightweight solar panels hidden by a parit so I I think you know they can look into it and see yeah it is yeah oh you know I suggest that for every building in every instance where the sunlight isn't blocked by orientation foliage or you know other high buildings nearby uh it's this is a natural and it would be a great Exemplar and a great marketing PL you know you're you're moving the building uh through time without changing its historic character uh into you know true Energy Efficiency not just you know obligatory pardon the implied insult window improvements you know was your code required I think it's something they can look into yeah no I I I I could imagine how that would play you know in terms of marketing it to especially the upper floor tenants you know it might supply all the energy needs for the second and third floor tenants thank you I second that any other thoughts well I thinkk thank you I think this is a a really welcome project and um a wonderful adaptive reuse of a historic building so I'll be voting in favor of this application and uh any conditions I don't think there are any conditions I don't think we I don't think we have you know there's the condition to the um the maintenance of those tree pits and the um that we're going to comply obviously with the construction officials request for those plants do we typically incorporate also the like Engineers rep as a matter of practice just to capture those requirements I usually the zoning board does that fine thank you Mr we do that too yeah as a as a general condition of approvals yeah you've already given testimony agreed to so yes you've given testimony of agreement to all the comments All right so um can we take a vote sure do we have a motion do I have a motion I move to approve this application okay second okay Vice chairwoman balson Alvarez yes Mr spur yes Mr forelli yes Mr Stern yes Mr Bell yes chairman zooker yes the motion carries thank you very much appreciate your time tonight thank you thank you yeah yeah yeah uh given the time why don't we take a uh 12 and 1 half minute break we always throw these numbers around take as long as you need but it'll won't be [Applause] long e e e e e e e e e um get back into session right yeah we have the resolution um on the Reeves read Arboretum to memorialize anyone have any edits or comments ments on the resolution as presented yeah that adequately reflect what we agreed to okay hearing no comments no I don't I have no comments I thought it adequately reflects what we voted on so um I'll just share that our voting members our eligible voting members are chairman zuker Vice chairwoman balson Alvarez Mr felet who not here Mr dalmaso who's also not here Mr forelli Mr Stern and Miss Bowen all right so basically this side of the day I only want to hear from this side can we have a motion so move second okay Vice chairwoman balson Alvarez yes Mr forelli yes Mr Stern yes Miss Bowen yes chairman zooker yes the motion carries good uh next up is if everyone's had a chance to see the calendar of our meetings for next year we have the publication right hang on second the one that I put on the Das is the is there a difference between the two yes I just changed one date so the September date was originally September 22nd I believe and I changed it to the 29th due to rashash Shana okay I can already identify just one date when I know I'll I'll be unavailable which is the March 24th meeting but I think I can Strongarm one of the two people to my left or someone else to to cover um okay fine does anyone have any other comments on the dates or should we adopt the calendar is that what we do we do a motion to we'll do a vote yeah we'll do a roll call vote so yes Motion in a second all right we have a motion to adopt the calendar I have a question can we make the December 17th Wednesday instead because I find people start dropping off a week before uh this year this is Wednesday yeah right yeah it's after council meeting I could check so long as they didn't do uh an odd date for their council meeting CU sometimes they'll do that so I would just have to look back at their schedule I don't have it in front of me unfortunately I do have it upstairs okay yeah does anyone have any thoughts on that or are we okay with letting Stephanie look into uh we can do this at the end and she can check okay yeah maybe it's if if you check 17th is free great if not leave at the 18th yeah okay all right so you want me to check 17th or 18 okay okay so you're in charge okay no problem okay this be like Groundhog Day I have my eye doctor annual eye doctor appointment then I'm going to have it the same day next year happening over and over so then should we wait to vote or do you want to uh adopt it now and say it could either be the 17th or the 18th I wouldn't adopt it if you haven't decided okay that's fine so we'll adopt it in January we'll do it for January yeah I'll put it on the agenda or we can just put this at the end of the agenda go over all the bur of stuff because we're going to be here forever that's fine doing that I can do that all right we'll do that thank you Jo okay so we'll move this to the end of the meeting all right next up um is our drro oh why we do the minutes okay uh I'll ask the board if they've had a chance to review the minutes and if there's any comments or edits before we memorialize them seeing no comments I'll take a a motion to approve the minutes all right Miss bson Alvarez moves Mr former Chelly all those in favor I any opposed okay the motion carries thank you now moving on to the drro Amendments all right I'm going to run upstairs then thank you okay very simple this past week we submitted the draft the updated draft of the ordinance amendments uh in all instances I believe we've captured exactly what we had all agreed upon at the last meeting um I don't know it's necessary to go through each and every one I think it's fairly straightforward to find uh we did that the one item I would suggest we talk about a little bit is on page six which is the rooftop amenity spaces because that what happened um the one that we didn't talk about all these issues uh at the last meeting probably the critical thing because you can't read it sorry page six six I'll tell you what it is yeah I don't think it's the same it's um it starts with I guess it's section 10 um rooftop and vanity space maybe it is just formatting and at the last meeting we had discussed about how we should have different regulations governing non-residential uses and residential uses so we broke it up that way uh well bless you well we talked about some of the standards uh one of the standards I did want to highlight is item uh 1D on page six talks about rooftop of enity spaces shall not occupy more than 50% of the roof surface on which it is located there's no magic percentage to impose here um we checked a couple of different ordinances that seem to be the most common percentage I have seen it as high as 70% 75% um you idea what like milour Chad Madison I remember um Hoboken was 50% I just don't recall specifically some of the others that I make us at some sort of disadvantage with our neighboring towns that's a good point I I think we did look at Milburn but this is not going to be introduced until the new year obviously you can't do it this late in December um so I could double check that for you and you mentioned in addition to Milburn chadam it's probably the two most relevant I'll double check what they have and we could report back on that I like from uh the fact that our downtown in particular is a national register district and viewsheds you know it's better to have it set back 50 you know a certain amount and then you can go for tax credits and it kind of self-correcting so you don't have to that's why I was comfortable with the 50% yeah um but I wanted to point out that there's no magic number to select and every building's going to have different challenges to exactly get into that and and they'll it'll be limited by setback requirements any anyway so you may not you may not be able to get 50% if you can't meet the setbacks correct from the ledge but if you could meet the setbacks why do we care what the percentage is well for example the one we saw today that there was no setback on the Beachwood side it was right on right next to the ball sh but that was that was the office itself that wasn't the rooftop right the rooftop amenity the glass addition went right to the yeah but that's not what this is right this is more like open roof deck type space if if I'm understanding this correctly opposed to a railing for and all that right right but and I was thinking sort ofly John the same point like if you had uh I just pick just pick whatever the largest building in Downtown might be pick this one for instance yeah that I mean you're you're right there there could be a version of that where like why why wouldn't you allow them to do it if all of the the sight lines were appropriate that's the the sight lines need to to not be adverse to the the character of the building and unless I mean I mean there's other stuff that come into play there's other stuff that will come into play that's self correcting like like fire code issues and egress and course yeah how many people can all all other Essentials being met do we care what the percentage is that's a good point do we have to Define it should we add a statement about uh provided sight lines as viewed from the street not adversely affected or not impacted or we could just go that route entirely which is you know the visibility factor and but then it put the the a little more visibility and safety visibility and safety are our priorities right and to prove it though it puts a little more pressure on The Upfront soft cost end because they have to actually show you view sheds and render it from several you know that's what we do in my biz you know they have to give you is meant to allow for rooftop amenities as of right though so the potential for us or zoning or even administrative review of something conceptual is out as long as they meet these minimum requirements so we can't rely on that is there some language around Sight lines that we could yeah we can certainly put that in I mean the zoning board I mean the zoning code official can certainly tell if it's if it's very visible but you know there's a point to be made for minimums or maximums you should we should then add I'm sorry I want to make one other flip side thought about it that I I'm not expressing a strong opinion about it but I could see where where maybe that restriction might be like the just arbitrary percentage is if beyond the technical parts of seeing it and and measurements is is there is does this this is this a soft way to control noise and activity yeah so there's like another side to this that maybe could that's that's a good point to Paul's Paul's Turn Point um is I think when we have some understanding of what the neighboring communities allow or don't allow this doesn't necessar have to be punitive was 10% then for sure we'd be out of the norm but this may also be a way for us if this becomes a regular occurrence to start seeing some real life applications tested and perhaps some further revision necessitated in future years so it's a reasonable starting point maybe it's 60% or something but I doubt chadam at you know 100% and some you have a history of doing that and when we did the comprehensive update a number of years ago two years later we looked at okay what was working or wasn't and made some adjustments then that's right okay I have a question on page eight so I'm sorry so did we did we conclude that we're going to leave a 50% recommendation in or Jo G to do something to check check and there's two minut palities and then add some like language about view shed impacts what's the rationale um so we say music's permitted via audio equipment or live AC acoustic performances from the time Yet TV screens have to be muted just ask your fellow board members you're the ones that voted on the last meeting um good question I it just seems contradictory right yeah if you're going to allow If You're Going music but it can come from a DJ is it it does it have anything to do with the duration of that like a TV droning on all day long versus a band maybe being there for a three-hour period is there I don't I'm not sure either but maybe that's I don't remember conversation with TVs but they can have they can be playing Spotify Outdoors all day I mean you know we're not I yeah I kind of agree what's the I don't know why TVs need to be muted I wonder if music considered less of a noise less of a nuisance than um television I don't know it's just a question yeah I don't know why that vote was taken but it was so I added it in yeah I tend to agree with you that it seems contradictory I mean if anything it should be muted during the same hours that music isn't permitted right if we're not going to allow sound right between you know after 10 o'clock on Mondays and Fridays and after midnight on Saturdays and Sundays if just just trying to think of what we were trying to is is it a Content issue too is it just the you know having a TV on depend is just you know music you're you could make the same argument I guess about music but but with the TV it's just a wide variety of noise that comes out of it whether could be music could be explosion you know like could be anything on the roof M trying to think of where when I go to a restaurant t on it's usually not doesn't have the volume going what's that I think I'm just trying to they're good questions when we're in when you're in a restaurant and there's a game on it's usually muted isn't it right most it's like a sports bar only only in a sports bar is it on yeah but otherwise it's not I'm open to the board thinks I don't think we need to restrain it unless it turns out to be a problem and then we'll probably address it but I can't I'm not to Sure I'm I'm not it would be interesting to hear the context that made made arrive at that for sure should we go and rewatch The I was thinking more about the television's not being you know aimed at the neighborhood you know for light distraction but that's it's not a sound issue we're going to go with we're going to allow music I think this is meant to be more restrictive than what the existing noris ordinance would control for um to be even more specific in its application around some passive or active use of a rooftop right it's a very unique circumstances which this would fall into I would feel comfortable eliminating the redundancy of sorts right and the the point e and just limiting it to the hours as specified in point D and kind of seeing how it plays out Steve are you when you were started talking about that like are you almost leaning like could it could it in theory be like abuse as almost like an advertising piece or some kind of signage thing potentially right I mean you know the way I always think about this and and Joe you've seen this applied across more municipalities is we have things like like ordinances and noise ordinances that are meant to control these potential negative impacts upon residential commercial what kind of uses um so this particular consideration I mean it's it's conceivable it's advertising but it's application is is meant to be as part of an amenity of likely a residential building or a commercial use so I mean I don't know if even we could conceivably allow for a rooftop bar like that that's really what we're exploring here I'm not sure I mean maybe the sax people are going to surprise us with something crazy local ordinances in the state ordinances restricts decel you know the decb to 50 DB in the evening so that would all already apply here I like what you said about you know if you've got a bar with music and then you've got a competing TV all on the same rooftop that can get a little yeah messy um but we're not necessarily trying to control for in that instance I would leave that bar that would be too disturbing to me right and we're not trying to control necessarily for that impact more so the impact on the surrounding properties that's how I view these controls right if a Baro chooses be Elks choose to have football and basketball and golf and God knows whatever else God love you go do it you don't like you to go to summer house whatever um but I'm more thinking about the negative impact and that's typically noise just noise generally the noise level is controlled by the noise ordinance and then we're trying to provide some further constraint on that in this case by the hours with which noise may be present yeah and that seems like a appropriate First Step At least agree so let the TVs be on let the TVs be on yes okay you you can share when we're off off the norm you know you don't have to wait for us to figure it out every time you have an opinion you can ignore it I I often tell you when I say you're clearly going wrong but my if my notes do reflect that it was a unanimous vote there oops um the other item um just to confirm my notes indicated that you did not want a cap on the number of seats for patrons correct correct okay we're not trying we're not trying to manage that either and what's the downfall there Joe because you clearly are holding back again no I was not okay okay we were relying on like the occupancy requ fire code exactly I just wanted to make sure I had my correct all right um so I'll clean this up I'll get the answers about milber and chadam make the other minor adjustments and then that should do it the other issue s jum before we jump away from this I just I'm going to expose my ignorance on this so we will vote on this this this will be referred to the governing body yeah the governing body May accept or reject or may amend it themselves how does how does it work they can do all of the all the above okay um the way the statute reads uh once you make a recommendation to the governing body they will take it in whatever form they Cho choose to take it okay at first reading and then they got to refer it back to you okay for your consistency review with the master plan when it goes back to them as a recommendation they can either adopt your recommendation in full reject it in full or adopt it in part they have that right have you ever seen just as a practical matter because I'd be interested in establishing a process where this is to the extent possible uh proed in a regular rather speed to with a certain speed to it is there any instance where you've seen like a subcommittee formed where say two members of the planning board and a member of the governing body were to sit together like should we have deia or a future council member sit on the drro Committees here to try to avoid any disconnects between the governing body and the planning board yes in fact if I believe I made that recommendation here okay with respect to the upcoming affordable housing issues right I had a terrible instance in two or three municipalities where the governing body acted behind the scenes as they were required to do under round three and then they presented their planning board with a p housing plan and to he adopt this and in two or three municipalities the planning board purposely rejected they refused to adopt the housing plan just to send a message to the governing body it was a political nightmare was it it was not pleasant um and then they met together and it was all about you can't just give us something in the end let us participate so in the fourth round the first thing they've done is create that subcommittee and I recommended it here first of all with a subcommittee because of the truncated time in which we're going to be working in the housing plan um we may need uh quick responses to recommendations and probably need to be able to meet during the day if possible at least through a zoom call with a small number of people to tr to try to resolve some nitty-gritty issues so thank you okay I have a question I think I may have missed discussions that would have answered it in advance but if we're looking at um controlling difficult to control circumstances on rooftop amenity spaces particularly say on the very next to last page page 7 item 2 B and C [Applause] um I've seen circumstances where a member of a club not in Summit but say in New York or pick a place is the nominal host of an event and that individual invites many guests none of whom necessarily have any link to the space where the event is taking place and that event is invariably a fundraiser um and I'm not sure whether that constitutes commercial use or not uh but my question is really not as a lawyer I'm not on nomenclature and Clarity and how the intent what's clear in the intent relates to what might be enforced so for example in 2A a tenant or takes advantage of having legal access to a rooftop amenity space and organizes a uh party for 100 of uh or his best friends uh as a fundraiser for a not for-profit organization is that permissible or not it is because that individual has legal responsibility could get kicked out from ever doing it again if it's too noisy that's probably covered but I'm not so sure that a clever lawyer couldn't get around this uh and I just wondered if there was a lot of discussion about it a little discussion about it or no discussion about it in the meetings I missed let's go with not a lot right that's a good point no it's i i i how much can we really I think it's I think it's a it's a sof way to deal with it but it yeah if you could probably get around it meaning meaning it could be challenged by another tenant who's upset about the use so there's something in there in case there's problem if there's anything vague it could lead to people being upset like if the like if the Elks said instead of saying a member is having their own party there if they said this child making this if um if Grace wanted to have a fundraising event there and leased it from them they they and used the rooftop space they could be sort of in violation of this but the question is where's that line exactly kind of that's my question yeah I mean the L you can rent out the yeah not the roof not the roof second floor second floor yeah but then we're talking about the rooftop yeah well I guess what maybe to this point that we don't have to get into the El too deeply necessarily specifically but like what stops them from yeah what do they self- policing or do they just don't like to use because that's the space for the members and they use downstairs for you know commercial purposes if you will this this had Arisen in a number of zoning applications where the intent of the board trying to guide if not outright condition and applicants operational plan for for residents was such that when it came to amenity spaces on the rooftop we wanted to reduce the likelihood knowing that people break rules all the time sadly um the likelihood of mass Gatherings with an intensity of light and sound God forbid smoke or God you know any other kind of nightmare scenario um that would you know really amplify it was meant to ensure that um rooftop rooftop amenity spaces were more passive use we kind of questioned grills for example or Mr Flanigan had another application here with a dog run on the roof um some pretty creative things which you know go forth seek variances and let the Bo decid or planning board um but at least the general intent in this case is for some to make a statement that rooftop many are interesting but meant to be largely passive could I could I suggest that the owner of the building they would have their own regulations governing this we're just allowing them to to do it through zoning but in the end whether it's a a condominium or whether it's just a rental building they're going to be have their own controls on what's allowed and typically they do not allow commercial activity on in on these kinds of spaces unless it's useful to them financially which they encourage it in market and to that but to that point right and this is where someone could always come back right if it was a social flub right that's right there these are the requirements right if if if the club wanted the ability to use the roof for renting it out for for Charities or what have you they can always come in see of variance and that's I think the the lens with Le I look at this is like the best use of this is to ask a question be it for the zoning officer be it for planning or zoning to ask the question if an applicant came in to say the purpose of a commercial consistent regular commercial high intensity use to be like oh wow maybe that's a little out of conformance with the expectation at least it raises the questions otherwise kind of cart launch and do whatever they want the Hillary Oles of the world the Jim we of the world are always going to read this before they come and put forward a variance application and have a sense of where generally kind of our our policy preference may be so useful reference that answers my question don't know what'll answer people see what I answer question right and I mean you know I mean the roof the owner of the property can have a sign that says maximum occupancy based on the fire code is 55 people and that's it however much money you can raise from people more power to you I mean okay any other thoughts on that you want to make any changes to the language based on the discussion okay we're good thank you Jill okay last on our agenda state plan we have to approve it I think oh we have to because we have to send it up to the city well he's going to come back to us oh that's right we have a couple change he's coming he's coming back to us one more time one more time very briefly on the state plan yes um the state plan as as I think everybody knows was adopted over 20 years ago at that time it was like a 425 page document and about 10 years later they tried to amend it and they submitted a 36-page document which nobody liked and that was quickly in the trash can and they were supposed to have a new draft last March and every month since last March we would receive an email that saying we're still working on it it'll be next month and then down at the league of municipalities for those that were at the session with DCA and the state plan people they said we will be releasing it by the end of the week well the end of the week finally came last week and they submitted 168 page document oh this is well and good this will start the cross acceptance process where we review it and submit comments to the County planning board because they have already agreed to be the entity through which all the municipalities in the county will be responding and as we went through as we're starting to go through this document in the 168 Pages it does mention that there's five different PL planning um sections um planning areas one through five just like the last time but the key has always been well where are the lines being drawn are they being changed they haven't submitted the maps yet so while we can start the cross acceptance process you from the little I've read so far the document itself hasn't changed all that much in terms of intensity and in interest and whatnot but we really do want to know if the lines have changed because that has dramatic impact on planning in the municipality so I called them and said where's the maps and they said Oh They'll be delivered shortly from March to December it took that short amount of time to get the document so I will keep you posted on that uh we are going through the documents and we'll be you'll be receiving a memo from us some of the issues that it ra it may be raising but it's really important to get those MA and by the way the county has not yet started um scheduling when they will hold meetings on this DCA is going to be holding one meeting Per County but they haven't set up that schedule yet either so once that comes out I'll let you know when it's going to happen here in Union County then if so uh people get the comments they'll receive them and adjust the document accordingly The Next Step will be that they're going to hold six hearings County as Statewide but they haven't identified where those what counties that will be held in um and then they will be adopting it so this is going to be stretched out for a good long period of time I think okay thank you so stay tuned thank you all right any other good and Welfare or we minutes I mean thear oh the calendar that came back yes I did come back so it looks like the council meeting is on December 16th so um if we want December 17th that should be okay that's W yes that's what m b Al okay are have any objections or thoughts it's all good sounds good all right let's do it can I have a motion for approval okay and a second second okay chairman zooker yes Vice chairwoman balson Alvarez yes Mr spur yes Mr forelli yes Mr Stern yes Mr bellain and Miss Bowen the motion carries I don't never mind because I I don't know right never mind um just one explanation of abstaining uh this is my last meeting on the planning board and I just want to express my appreciation to all of you it's been great pleasure being here sitting here having a chance to uh not only talk a lot but listen to applicants and to you all and to uh uh experts uh on both sides of this divide I'm going to miss it uh but I have many other things to do so I won't miss it that much uh but I'm I'm really in awe of the things that you accomplish in the level of detail of the analysis the clarity and and principal nature of that so uh we wanted to just compliment you all and say farewell I may be in one of those benches from time to give it if there's a project of Interest I can speak for I'm happy to speak for whoever I can speak for that we are very grateful for your service I think you've really elevated the level of analysis and and questions and and education that we were able to experience here so I thank you thank you you'll be missed absolutely you'll be you'll be missed thank you so much for being here for as long as you could okay with that thank you folks and have a wonderful holiday and safe and I'll see you in the new year all right holiday [Music] all right okay