good evening and welcome to the February 21st meeting of the city of summit Zoning Board of adjustment I'm Joe Steiner and I am the chair of the zoning board please rise and join me in the Pledge of Allegiance I pledge allegiance to the FL flag of the United States of America and to the nation indivisible with liy and justice for all thank you in accordance with New Jersey statute 10 colon 4-10 adequate notice of this meeting has been provided to the newspaper of record and has been posted here at City Hall this meeting is a Judicial proceeding any questions or comments must be limited to the issues that are relevant to what the board May legally consider in reaching a decision and decorum appropriate to a Judicial hearing must be maintained at all times for the benefit of the interested public this meeting is being live streamed to the city's YouTube page and also broadcast on summit's government Channel which is Comcast channel 34 and Verizon channel 30 a transcript of this meeting is also being taken using the video and audio so we need all speakers to utilize one of the microphones in the room please note that the fire exits are to my right to your left and at the back of the room where you entered the city has a listening system to assist the hearing impaired if anyone needs hearing assistance please obtain the system here at the dis and return it thereafter Miss suos would you please call the role of the members sure chairman Steiner here Vice chairman lyit is excused Mr Yuko here M Mr Nelson here miss Don here Mr Kieran here Mr Malay is excused Miss to here miss Cho here Mr feskin is excused Mr Chuli here you have a quarum you may proceed thank you Andy mul is the zoning board's attorney he's sitting right next to me on my right your left and he will advise the board members on matter of law um and and I'm out of pages uh I did this again I got him out of the the wrong place um and he will tell us what we have to do and how will advise the uh each of the this is really interesting he is the key interface with the applicant's attorney he does not vote on the applications Stephanie suos is the city employee and is the zoning board secretary she works with the applicants on preparing their applications and uh planning our agendas and keeping our meeting minutes she also does not vote on the applications also present are two of our city of our staff people uh Marie Rafi is from ker engineering and is our board's engineering firm and she is seated the table to our right uh the audience's left also seated at that table is Ed snikes from Burgess who is uh our our planner they provide input to the board and also they do not vote on the applications our board consists of seven regular members and up to four alternates all members can participate in the hearings tonight but a maximum of seven can vote most applications require a simple majority to be approved before we enter executive session to vote on the application we will once again tell you um how many votes are required to pass the resolutions each case will begin with the applicant or their attorney giving an overview of the application to process and the process that's gone on to date and the variances that are required we then hear from any additional expert witnesses that the applicant may have brought along to help explain the application and why the variances are needed board members may ask questions of the applicant their attorney and the expert Witnesses once the board members and the board professionals have completed their questioning the public will have an opportunity to tell us uh to ask questions this is not the time to ask to tell us what you think about the case that opportunity will come a little bit later before you ask your question again come to the microphone clearly state your name spell your last name and provide your address all of that's important that our court reporter is able to God bless you is able to uh keep a clear and accurate public record after all of the witnesses have been heard members of the audience now have their second opportunity to speak and that time you may express your opinion positive and negative about the application you will be warn for that process um and then the public hearing is closed and we enter into executive session where the board members discuss the case and we vote you will be able to listen to our executive session but you will not normally be able to participate in our discussion christe Anderson the city's zoning officer has asked that we remind all applicants that they must read carefully the resolution that documents the zoning board's decision and pay particular attention to the conditions contained in the resolution for example if a landscaping plan is required you must obtain one and submit it to John Linson the city's Forester if a grading plan is required you must have one prepared by a civil engineer and submit three copies along with the application fee to the city's engineering division failure to satisfy all the conditions in a resolution will result in a delay in approving your application as it will cause extra work for the city's owning staff the resolutions that document the board's decision will normally be available one month after we decide the case we have two cases uh for hearing tonight um James and Lucy nering uh would one of you come forward and tell us how many witnesses you have and um again using the microphone and whether or not you think you can complete your case in thir 30 minutes all right James nearing 28 Cromwell Parkway Summit New Jersey n r i n we think we can do it in 20 minutes or to 30 minutes and we have no Witnesses other than me other than you okay fine thank you very much and the uh Thomas holding I believe there's an our attorney is here as we carry this one forward hello Hillary all from dempy Dy and Shen um tonight we have four experts um we're calling back the engineer to go over some revised plans and then the architect landscape architect and planner okay so we're going to be a while in this one okay thank you thank you and well so we will start then with the uh 28 Cromwell Parkway if um the nearings would come forward and uh our to hold up pardon we'd like to hold up a drawing everything can we put it on the table there we can put it there for now I'll be away all right and if you can please raise your right hand I'll swear you in do you swear Fromm the testimony you're about to give in this matters the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth I do please state your name spell your last name James nearing n e r i n g thank you and if I understand correctly you are also a licensed engineer is that correct so can you provide the board with your background and experience please I've been an engineer since 1986 um I've been held various engineering positions throughout industry um done a couple houses uh in the past but my principal activity has been fire safety with Sean's engineering okay and your license in New Jersey is active and still good standing yes it expires in April 30 with the normal 2024 normal cycle sign great any questions from the board or would you like to accept him as an engineer any questions from any board members okay then we will accept your credentials welcome and please uh start the presentations okay um we've been residents of the summit for over almost 38 years we recently completed renovation of our kitchen and bathroom and we decided to put a p a sliding glass door out to the exit to the rear of the building building and we decided that be nice to have a deck back there um so we're asking for a variance for um rear setback uh the regulations are 40 ft we have uh 42 ft in the back we're asking for having that reduced to 22 ft so we can put the deck out you can see here the microphone the deck will sit out the back of the house um it's a 320 ft it's roughly uh 20 by 16 it covers an existing patio no I'm sorry please talk into the microphone or you could even use actually you can use the handheld if you'd like you just have to turn it on our first it's okay is it on we just want to put a uh 20x 16t patio rather deck across our existing patio leave the patio in place so we're asking for an exemption of the setback from 40 ft to uh 22 feet and that takes us to a fence in the neighbor's backyard the zoning officer had recommend that we pass out some pictures of the backyard so you can see there's not too many obstructions uh or nearby buildings so um while they're looking at them and passing them I guess that's what's happening here uh can you tell us when the pictures were taken who took them I took them I took them just before it's snowed the second time okay couple weeks ago couple days ago okay and do they truly represent fairly fairly represent the uh what what you're representing yes we looked at north south east west nor um Northwest and Southeast so we can take a look at this way this way and also that way okay and are all of those in that pile yes and La okay so we'll make the package A1 okay the p and those will remain with our secretary okay uh the patio was intended there was some question questions asked by Miss Anderson uh the zoning officer and the patio is first off the day of the original survey was partially cut off in the lower part of the drawing it's so was done on uh uh March 31st 1986 when we bought the house so it's the original survey for the house we haven't done anything to the house except they had air conditioning widen the driveway that's about it since we bought the house um there are no changes to the property which are not indicated on the submitted survey the patio is intended to remain um the if the deck were rotated by 90 de as suggested by Miss Anderson um it would leave a 20ft long by 4ft wide strip between the garden and and the deck which would be of limited use so we kind of would prefer not to do that but that would reduce the amount of setback exemption we're asking for um they said I've attached the photographs side screening of the generator was a question we had a generator installed two years ago when they've repaired the window they trampled down some of the side screening It's Our intention to replant that during the Spring um construction official Mr maritato uh ask for footing details that's on the original permit application which was submitted to the township several months ago um it indicated the railings were not shown well on the drawing they are in the orig on the original uh drawings for the property for the rather the deck they're 36 in high they surround the deck and they also two two both sides of both stairways of orange ball spacing environmental commission Miss Cho U added we should put some native plannings around the deck we've downloaded the uh suggested plannings list from the township and we intend to do that in the spring once the deck is completed um that's about all we have to say it's a rather simple deck um just looking for exemption for the setback to the neighbor's property and there's plenty of room back there there's no other decks or structures for our neighbors that are anywhere near the uh the deck so we wouldn't be looking into somebody's backyard or somebody's somebody else's deck so any questions okay let's begin M Marie so um just to confirm you're not widening your driveway that was oh yeah I'm sorry uh yeah you did have that question and I have some responses for you also here um my papers got a little jumbled just like yours did do you want me to just go through and flag things that I was thinking of that maybe that would uh let me just that would work for us right yeah go ahead so um so on this survey it sounds like this was your original survey so just for the record you're not increasing the driveway beyond what it is no the driveway was increased under permit um c19 2005 and 2019 so that was already done and it's complete okay um and just another point I'm not affiliated with Casey and Keller I'm sorry I'm not affiliated with Casey and Keller okay thank you um and uh let's see you're you're keeping the patio underneath I think you testified to that that was another question of mine um you know since there's a minimal um additional square footage being added to the property there's it doesn't trigger any um seepage fits or anything I it's 67 67 square feet and it's permeables it's there slots between the decking so it is permeable all right I think that's all I have okay you you didn't you you didn't have it okay uh questions from the board yeah I I have one question um you know you noted Chris AR's comment about if he would rotate the deck 90 degrees he wouldn't need a variance and I heard why we still need a variance well you wouldn't need the setback yeah we still need a setback it would still be a setback it's just 4T less of a setback okay fouret less the set back um and you made some comments about why you didn't didn't want to do that to Le could you say that again maybe point to pictures and diagrams I couldn't quite follow what you were saying yeah the deck is was be built over existing patio which is 20 ft from the house so if we made the we rotate at 90° it would be 16 ft from the house it' be a strip of cement here of the existing patio that would be between there' be 20 ft long between the garden and the deck and it would be unusable space for us okay the patio is is already unfortunately non- compliant it was uh there when we bought the house it was 1964 and it4 and uh that was probably uh I think Chris as Anderson suggested that maybe you could give us a retroactive variance for the deck as it sits right now that would be great if you could but haven't really to asked for that but that would be nice the patio the patio sorry yeah the the patio is a pre-existing non-conformity so that is not an issue we don't need to Grant a variant for that okay I have a couple of questions one so you put the the sliding door in I mean it would seem to me that that's not to building code right now without a deck underneath that I see you had a piece of furniture There we were going to put steps down right but because you can't have like a sliding door that opens to a drop right now it opens to a drop we were going to put stairs down but we thought the deck would be a nicer idea so that's why we decided to go with and are you are you demolishing those steps that are there or you putting the you know de you're covering it with the deck we covering with the deck we're partially taking it down so we can get the deck in and then as far as the installing this patio um to put in the footings and everything you don't have to the deck sorry you don't have to remove part of the patio I'm just wonder like the state of the patio is looking like it's probably not I don't know if anybody walked back there but it looks like it's not in you know in great condition and I'm just trying to I'm thinking about like what should you actually be removing that patio to put this deck in especially seems to me you're going to have to break off pieces of it to put in footings for your deck the contractor would drill a hole in into the they're 4 and 1/2x 4 and 1/2 fo slabs that are make up the patio separated by 2x4s I mean that's the way it was built so we're just going to get holes in the in the slab and drop the footing into through the holes but the rest of the patio beyond that is going to look like it is now it's not we had no intention of changing it maybe not look going be a little bit a patio sticking out from your deck um is that 8T about 8T yeah which is we like to keep a little bit of patio down there that's all my questions any other questions if you were to if if this were not to be approved uh what would you you said you're going to put a stairwell down um do we need uh would would there be a need for a variance or what would he need in order to do that Marie do you know I'm not I'm not exactly surek you are the steps considered part of the structure or does it need a a roof on it do you have that I think it would still be considered a part of the structure as far as setbacks are triggered but is is that within the rear yard setback area well that's what it looks like on it would it would still be an encroachment of the of the setback okay about by about 2 feet so we would you would need a variance either way probably yes right our attorney says yes okay and if it's a choice between the attorney and the engineer we take the attorney um can we exp uh the uh one of of our standing conditions is that uh you would accept any and all of the conditions outlined on the engineer's letter is that acceptable yes okay all right any other questions any questions from the public for this witness yes sir come you have to come forward and Y good evening uh my name is Courtney Jesy uh my wife name is Ryan Jesy we are residents at 32 beatman Jesy is JK so uh we're your neighbors to the backside um I had some questions if in this process I am not an engineer uh by any means uh we moved to Summit two and a half years ago um because we thought it was a you know a fantastic place to raise our three kids we moved from Florida we moved against the traffic up here uh to New Jersey and we love it we love the neighborhood the two concerns we have um question should just be questions have an opportunity to weigh in opinions or concerns yes exactly thank you sir um would be surrounding uh any kind of water runoff we have an incredibly incredibly wet neighborhood um and has that been analyzed or is that looked at okay I think our engineer would you like to respond or would you rather our engineer that's that's my that's really the question I could respond we're not doing anything that's going to alter the the drainage of the property at all even the 67 ft is going to be permeable so it's not going to be any worse than it is now Marine anything um so I I think there's some partial truth to the statement I think that I think Summit considers the deck as um coverage that has to be mitigated for it's over 300 sare ft they only have 67 and half Square fet so they don't have to mitigate for that in um in and with any storm water measures um so you know but I I I respect what you're saying that it's a deck and the water is going to you know just go down through the deck um so only 67 ft yes right it's the only 67 ft that matters so is going to remain the you know the deck is not adding any um is only adding ft out out of the entire so he is not required to provide any mitigation any other you want anything else sir question I I'll try to make sure it's phrased as a question versus a comment but um in this application I'm sorry I couldn't see it from where I was sitting has there been any privacy trees or anything considered in the application at this point we didn't because have um and so we figed that was just talking to the microphone please yeah yeah go ahead my question is is there we certainly could add some trees but there's a six foot fence behind the property now which is which is Mr Jess's fence so we didn't see any privacy issues but maybe he does you know we would we could produce some plantings back there that would be something we would certainly entertain if it's if it's a concern okay so we putting that in as a condition or if the board wants to see it as a condition usually necessary but that's my opinion that's not anybody else's I I agree I don't think that should be a condition all right sh when when the deck is built and particularly because it's used in the summertime when there are leaves and a lot more coverage than there is today it makes more wouldn't it make more sense to to wait and see yep and and for what it's worth the Forester had no objection SC for is very careful on those things he's extremely careful of looking at those things well there is you know one tree that I think is probably going to have to go because it looks like it's weeping over onto the where that would have to be trimmed the one maple tree would have to be trimmed the one branch on it yeah um yeah this one kind of looked more like a one Limb Tree that was hanging over onto the patio oh the magnolia tree um but you know to the point of Mr Jesy this deck what's the elevation of the deck 44 in so you know you're now your 6ot fence is now cut down to 3 feet right so if you're standing up on the deck I don't know just just to you know acknowledge the other side of that is that certainly the view is going to be different from the backyard if you're standing on a deck that's 3 and 1/2 ft tall versus standing on the ground so I mean a neighborly thing to do might be to yeah throw in a a couple AR braidy back there and and whether that has to be a condition of it or not but um I can see the the point of of the neighbor I I just have a com but that if you look the one property if you look at the uh the way the property is laid out it's the rear looks like it's the rear of the property on beakman is where um the African deck fa the we it's not like it's not like you're facing somebody's wind window you know it's not like house to house correct that is correct the house the house on beak is closer to the road yes okay any uh any other questions from the public okay you were the only witness I believe yes do you have uh any uh closing statement for us no other than uh you know we we've lived in Summit for as I said 38 years years we like to age in place we just did the renovation to the house putting in the Ada require supports and that's so we like just like the agent place I think this is prevents us from having to go down steps to get into the backyard and we can enjoy dining um private dining in the uh in the outside um so it's it's in compliance with the municipal land use laws for uh improving the look of the property I think it's as the environmental commissioner said it was very desirable um Improvement to the property that's all I so you think that's the positive criteria think there are any negative criteria that we should be considering um other than what Mr Jesy mentioned I don't I don't think there is if he's you know worried about his privacy a little bit I can understand that but uh we're not exactly party people you know we're all over 70 you know running around out there but potentially it's the next person who bought the house you know you don't know okay umer can I ask a quick question I'm sorry I should have asked before can I ask a quick question okay question um the the neighbor is that the house that is if you're looking at your house from the street is that the gentem to the right no he's directly behind us he's behind which picture has that house in it let's make it easy number three number four four he's do West from us okay take those if you we'll take them when you come up to comment testify okay so it's that that particular picture there yeah of of all I mean not to to make light of his concern the neighbor to your right which is actually facing beakman looks at your backyard all the time so um if anybody has a concern besides this gentleman I thought that neighbor would too but not to not to downplay your concern I completely understand what you're saying thank you sorry about that and Mr J I ask one question I meant to ask earlier I'm sorry go ahead I when I when I took a quick look at the property I forgot to look at the generator and I reminded the zoning offic has to comment that the generator must be continuously screened with either fence or DSE dense Landscaping is it screen now like said I I forgot it was screened it was screened but when we we had to repair a window and it got trampled down the screening on the side so the front is screen but we have to put plantings on the side to account for that trampling down that happened when the window was fixed and we're plan on doing that in the springtime okay so as a condition we would require that thing screening be replaced yeah that was addressed by representative or maybe it was Chris just Chris Anderson yeah okay any uh are we done with extra questions I have one question for I think for maybe Jo I just was wondering about abandoning the stairs in place essentially under the deck is this like code allows for that like to just put a deck on top because those are like crumbling and you know it as they are you could consider it a hazard um you put a deck on top of it I don't know is that something that the well I'm I'm thinking that in this case I mean this is probably more of a construction official kind of um question but um you know the the deck isn't very tall and those steps being kind of it sounds like he's taking off the top portion of the of the steps so that he can accommodate the the depth of the deck stringers so um he's he's taking off the top portion of it and um you know there's there's really I can't imagine what kind of Hazard it could be underneath that deck because it really is a low deck yeah it might come to it that when he's taking it down the whole thing has to come down because it's it just you know starts to crumble I don't know yeah okay any and and last chance for second question yeah quick question so this the map here this the one you said that's original to when the house was was done okay cuz it's like the metal building is is that that's gone that's gone okay okay thank you okay now we will open uh pardon just Clear My Throat now we will uh close the public portion uh of the now we will go to public comments so now you get to come forward and uh make any comments you would like we will swear you in to begin could you please raise your right hand do you swear from the testimony you're about to give in this matters the truth the whole truth nothing the truth I do and then please state your name spell your last name yes Courtney Jesy JK resident at 32 bman Road for almost three years thank you okay um just a a few things in the public comment section here um first I I respect your guys uh desire to want to expand out and have a larger porch in the backyard to enjoy the New Jersey Summers and I my public comment would be please approve that one one thing that I would say is uh there's a few inaccuracies that I heard in the comments about the visuals and the spatial distance between the two properties our property is perpendicular to the ning's property right so when they're coming directly back I have an aerial photo here that shows that is coming directly back to our porch that has been there where we spend a lot of time and the tree cover uh I don't know where the Forester is but while they're very mature trees mature trees are what they're very grown at the top but they are thin below and we can see directly from our porch into the construction in fact my wife commented you have a beautiful hood that you've installed um so I would ask that a part of this approval process however it gets done again I'm not an expert in the space so I apologize that there be some consideration about planting some privacy if they're going to be moving their late night parties um closer to our house and yeah you're going to be annoyed more by my three daughters than than that but I just think it would be nice visually when I'm on my back porch for them not to see in and we are with respect to a six foot fence our our patio is up probably 24 30 in and they're building one that's up as well so when we're standing I'm looking at them just as clearly as I'm looking at you so the six foot fence does nothing to to block that view so I hope this it's approved in your process that you have to do I would ask for um not only neighborly privacy but something to be put into it to ensure that it happens that's all I have to say would you like to submit those photographs that I would okay U these would be what 01 yeah I get to I just have three copies okay it's one photograph just one photograph aial photograph the Red Dot uh indicates Ely where the porch will stick out the a foot also allows you to see where our deck is behind and again is it it's it's a different kind of layout because our our houses do not butt up against each other right mine goes back and theirs comes in from the side just going to wait until I G is that different no I'll this one keep one keep one now oh have another okay are there anything else to add on the picture uh any questions generated from the picture okay thank you very much any anyone else from the public that would like to uh be heard on this matter seeing none um we go to conditions and votes so we have two and then the question about a third condition um first is as noted compliance with the conditions noted in the board Engineers memorandum second is that the applicants will replace the screening around the existing generator in compliance with the zoning ordinance and you know the open question is is um and I know the applicant said they would be willing to supplement the screening if necessary uh do we want to consider an additional condition something along the lines of the applicants will add screening between the rear neighboring property um to be submitted and approved by the city Forester well what are the thoughts go I was I think you know Mr jusy made his his point clearly and it's you know current in future you never know who who's living in a house and I think um the nearings are amable to add some sort of plan thing so seems like there's agreement there and it would be the right thing to do that this condition are you willing to accept that condition sir are you willing to accept that condition yeah yeah I just going to say the fence is six feet six feet so it's half heart 6 fet and trees I'm I'm lost well if it's not if it's not higher than six feet it's not going to do a better job def so how high would would these have to be that's up to you it's make it to the for can't we make it up to the Forester yeah so you know supplemental screening to be sub proposed to be submitted and approved by by the city Forest John Linson and presum so you'll meet with John before you buy them and make sure that John's but since since Mr Linson had no objection to what's there now should we add some specificity and say we want something taller than the current fence well we want I don't know that we want to do taller I mean let's talk about what the real objective is which is to provide screening between the neighbor with the raised patio and the applicant with the raised deck so that so that then the Forester knows what the you know what the concern is rather than trying to dictate the outcome yeah but if it's not taller they're still going to see he'll know that too okay well yeah our providing can grow four feet a year so if you put in an 8 foot one in a year it's 12 feet you know and that's it might not do the screening the first year might might take a little bit of time to provide my only concern with the screening is if there's already mature trees there will they get enough again that's uh sunlight that's sunight that's Mr linson's Department we can't get now because of the sorry we're in executive session sorry so we should base that on the expertise of the yes very good okay can you read back what we've got now yes so um the third condition then is that the applicant shall supplement the screening in the rear of the property between the applicant's property and the rear neighbor property and Sir what was your address 32 okay um with that particular property uh to be reviewed and approved by the city Forester okay you've heard the conditions and the number of votes needed uh there's only a c variance involved so four out of the seven voting members would need to approve the application okay who would like to open up uh discussion on the entire case not just our our um Forester issue oh I'll jump in with both feet because I love the crownwell Nassau Blair neighborhood and although it's not part of this application thank you for not blowing up your house um it's just I mean that neighborhood is just such a slice and it's changing so fast so I'm glad you're keeping what it is um and I think that this is extraordinarily modest addition to your home um I love the idea of of Aging in place and I applaud you for doing that that's what we want in Summit um and you know we appreciate your neighbors concerns I was impressed when I traed around your backyard how much space there really is between your home and the neighboring houses given the size and the density of the houses in in your little development um so I think that this really is an enhancement um while continuing the look and the feel of the neighborhood I think you've been extremely accommodating to your neighbor and I can certainly support this this application okay um anyone else like want to chime in yeah just just add that I mean I agree it's a reasonable application it's very modest addition and I think we can approve it without having any significant negative impacts on uh the neighbors or or any aspect of the neighborhood especially with the addition of the of the screening I think with the compromise that we have put together with the uh with the neighbor and the applicant uh and relying on our Forester that uh we will get the right result and uh I would entertain a motion to approve so moved second roll call sure chairman Steiner yes Mr Yuko yes Mr Nelson yes Miss Z yes Mr Kieran yes Miss toad yes Miss chfo yes the motion carries thank you uh well good luck with your project and uh may I remind you to read the resolution when it comes no it'll be about a month it'll come here and we will approve it and then it'll come to you I'm sorry can I sub my no not until after the resolution need need the resolution for the building yeah okay Thomas holding is coming up you know what you're doing I don't know that's this big one here let ready yes it's all yours all right um good evening I'm Hillary s from D Dy and Shen representing the applicant Thomas John Holdings LLC regarding property located at 502 Mars Avenue and 5 L Avenue block 502 two lots three and four in the r six and B Zone districts this application was last heard at the December 4th 2023 Board of adjustment meeting so two and a half months have passed um and it looks like there's some new members on the board um that were not at that meeting so I've prepared a brief introduction the applicant Mr pampalone is a longtime Hill topper whose business has been serving Summit and the surrounding communities for over 35 years he has operated his painting business out of the subject property for the last 12 years as a tenant and now owner Mr pampl is committed to investing in this community Through the thoughtful Improvement to this site which has many challenges his goal um his goals were to make the site functional for his business while also improving Traffic Safety off street parking circulation and drastically improving the Aesthetics of the site by upgrades to the facade of the building proposed upgrades to the existing garage which is in a state of deferred maintenance eliminating excess curb cuts and installing significant Landscaping which will provide an increased planted buffer between the subject property and the adjacent residential neighbor um and improving the curb appeal by beautifying the streetcape on Mars and L Avenues as Mr pampo testified lot 3 was purchased in 1947 and used as City autot top until 2018 in 1949 the Second Story residential Apartments were added and in 1952 Lot 4 was purchased the non-conforming garage was constructed in 1966 and has been used in connection with the commercial use since its construction these two pieces of property of function as one site and this application will formalize the longstanding interrelationship of these two lots through the consolidation of the Lots as specifically requested by the zoning officer the consolidation of the Lots will not remove the zone line which creates the need for certain variances previously stated and which will be described by the applicants experts this proposal will upgrade an existing substandard property by improving the overall aesthetic of the site promote Public Safety by the improvements to Ingress egress site circulation and provision of adequate off street parking in an organized manner while preserving the existing character of the surrounding neighborhood and provide for storm water management on a site that currently has none the applicant and civil engineer previously testified on December 4th uh the civil engineer Bill Hollows is here tonight to present a brief summary of his testimony and also to testify with regard to revised plans based upon comments received by the Union County planning board following Mr Hollows is the architect Mike McNerney the landscape architect John olivo and the planner Michael toia so if there are any questions for me I'm happy to respond and if not then I would ask that Mr holl be sworn to I think just we should uh put on the record that uh those board members who either were not on the board or um who are absent for that hearing have either read the transcript uh or watched the video or in some cases both um so uh you know the the uh the board is fully up to date on on what happened prior so but thank you for your overview as well excellent and let's go ahead with your okay first witness so he's um been previously qualified yep I'll just not note again for the record he Mr Hollow was previously sworn is remains under oath and his credentials were accepted at the last hearing absolutely excellent go ahead the drawing that I have in front of you is sheet to of the drawings that you have what we've done and this is has been noted as A3 and it's uh a colorized version of sheet 2 and it it shows what's there today if you were to drive out there today this is what you're you're going to see you've got the existing two-story masonry building with a canal lever entrance way in the back of it you've got the garage that's in the uh northwest corner of the property and adjacent to that garage is a frame shed behind the building you've got a little paved parking area and in front of the building and on L Avenue you've got some Cur curb cuts and some paved area you've got paved area across the front of the building and then you've got some gravel that was used has been used in the past for parking areas and um what you've got out there is very limited Landscaping if any You' got a few few trees in the back of the property got a little bit of lawn on the south side of the building and you've got a rather halfhazard parking system system out there now where you've got cars parking in tandem um there's two apartments on the upper part of this building and then you've got a small office in the [Music] front and again it's very limited Landscaping not the most attractive building on Morris Avenue and we're trying to make it more attractive and a little bit more functional a lot more a lot more fun this whole set's going to be submitted to the board as because it's colorized and we be these are both marked I just knowing that we had another meeting I took them back to my office right marked before at the last hearing y okay this is a this is A4 which is sheet three of the drawings that you've got in your package and again we've got the building doesn't change there's no additions other than a more compliance stairway off the back of that Second Story opening the building garage is still in the same place we have moved the shed forward um into a lawn what will be a lawn area we have eliminated the pave parking on the side of the building closing those curb Cuts we now have a walkway that goes from the back parking area which I'll speak to in very near near future walkway that comes around to the front of the building we're maintaining that front garage door and it'll just be a uh a decorative p uh driveway that that portion we've got a parking area now we've got 17 parking stalls one of them being a handicap stall we've got six tandem parking stalls in this area and that is for the um Commercial Business for the the vehicles you'll hear more about that uh you've heard it before as far as the initial testimony on the garage we're going to add a dormer to the back to kind of balance the building if you if you've looked at it it's kind of out of balance you got a dormer off what we call the front we're going to put a dormer off the back of the of the building and there will be extensive Landscaping um along the addition to the rear addition to the side addition to the front and down the um Northerly property line there'll be additional landscaping and you'll hear about that in a in a few minutes I think then we're making it again we're closing these curb Cuts we're making this more compliant we're going to have a stop sign there so that the traffic flow or is someone comes in and then they can go back out they're going to come out on L Avenue if they come out to moris Avenue it's a safer area than these curb cuts that used to be um on the front of the building excellent um and have there been any revisions to the filed plans dated June 15 2023 there have and can you describe the changes to the plans since that last meeting I revised the drawings in accordance with the Union County engineering office and I also had the lighting consultant take a look at the the plans because we had the hot white lights of 4,000 to 5,000k and been reduced to 3,000 which is a much more swelter weight L and compliant with the ordinance and comping with the ordinance we were the ordinance was 3500 which they don't make these types of Lights in 35 so we're 3,000 sorry I'm just going to jump in so this is sheet four five this is sheet four five the date of these plans it has been revised to January 31st 2022 you don't have these drawings so this I didn't want to confuse everyone with these drawings because these are just specific to the Union County requirements that I I did and you know I I believe I testified the original plan has some drywalls in this area at the corner of L and Morris on the south side the building um when we got the letter from the county it appeared to me reading reading between the lines in our engineering language that they wanted something different so we've got what we call infiltrator system it'll be in the lawn area going have a drain Inlet in the the parking area goes to the detention system and then it it'll come out at a slower rate into a outlet structure and then into a storm drain that's in already in Morris Avenue but that's and I kind of alluded to that in my uh my testimony on the 4th of December that there were that was going to change just based because I'd gotten a letter from the county and the other thing we for the county really they wanted brand new concrete sidewalk and brand new granite block herb on Morris Avenue those are really the items that the county wanted I thought it' be confusing if I shot some new or gave you some new drawings I think that uh we'll hear back from the county we can do everything at one time and hopefully if the board approves this application the other thing I did again this is the lighting plan which is sheet five revised on January 31st you don't have it you have the the hotter the hotter lights these are the soft white lights and we have some spillage onto L Avenue and also onto the Enterprise auto rental building from the north of us and that would the spillage on the auto Enterprise auto rental builing went down a little bit we change the light um a pth of the foot CLE which less than the moon would would give us on a property I doubt that they would even notice it and can you show the location of where that is yes that's that's right here the light fixture is the parking skall I don't remember the number but towards the back of the U site on the North side and it's just that one little spot adjacent to it's in their parking lot and then down along low we had that Village before it's just been reduced a little bit so can I interrup for a second I to lose a question miss all Mr holl are once they answer it um are you saying that are you testifying that this eliminates need for the lighting variants or it modifies it or what what are you what are you saying so the originally there was a variance for the color of the light you know the what is it the illuminate color temperature so that one is being eliminated we still need a variance for um spillage off the property line but now it's less than what was originally proposed okay do should we condition that zoning officer verifies the lack of me for the the rightness or the the Kelvin rating or whatever I don't know that that's necessary they're testifying that they're going to give the 3,000 Kelvin wood would within the range of the ordinance so I think that's relatively clear okay and then I just want do you want to Mark those as five A5 and A6 or no I believe that's what we're up to right um and then just to confirm the testimony from the last hearing um will the applicant comply with the engineers's report as a condition of approval that would be correct I I believe I testified to that but that would be correct that would be including the new drainage system and the new lights but everything that's in that letter and then what we're going seen the new drainage system No in fact um Mr Hollows and I were talking about that today because there was a little confusion from the last meeting I was unclear about what was happening with the infiltration system um and just to confirm he's he's removing the proposed seepage pits that were on the corner of the property on LOL and Morris that's coming out um and he and I spoke about this today that I haven't reviewed those calculations um so you know it depends on what the board wants to do but if you were inclined to um approve this you know you should probably have that as in condition that I would look at the the volumes and make sure that they were sized properly for that area um it sounds to me like that was a Union County comment that came back so he's actually switching out um the collection of the the water from the roof he's now not collecting it from the roof he's collecting it from the the uh driveway the parking lot itself so um no the answer is no I have not reviewed the calculations because I have not been they've not been provided at this point and it's a different method of operation because the one's tank and the this thing's infiltrator yes but um they they act in the same way these infiltrators we discussed them they're they're like an upside down bathtub really um so it they can be more shallow they're more adaptable to be used in um more shallow situation so um I don't I don't see that there would you know be a problem with um sizing them properly but I to answer your question not review them because I don't have those calculations okay I guess we can continue and get that I assume that condition that those calculations would be submitted for R and approval is acceptable yes thank you um yes I don't know if there's any questions for Mr holl okay questions for Mr Hollow I have so this infiltration system can you build over that that's why it's in the lawn you can't actually you can drive over them but they have to be have a certain depth to it which that does happen in this instance but it's not intended that anyone there's a curb line that would stop someone from from driving over them and then there's going going to be a fence that was on the original plan right we're just going to raise that to 7 ft but that's um from the corner of the building towards the property line so it really wouldn't it wouldn't behoove anyone to really try to to park there it's kind of leading up to another question for I think a different expert so but anyway uh is that because of the soil conditions there or the type of the soil conditions generally in this area are poor yeah all right thank you any other board questions any questions from the public can I before you open to the public can I just um I just want to make sure I clarify I made the comment that um that you were removing those seepage Pits on the corner of L and Morris but could you just confirm that so oh yes that that is a definite the the original plan had the the um secr pits in this area which were shallow too that um because we need to be able to get into the storm drainage system but uh they were were going to be removed in an additional Landscaping just Landscaping proposed for that area so so if I may chairman um so why aren't we catching the roof runoff we are oh you are it's not good we're catching more than our our increase in imperious coverage the roof leader drains as proposed would go into the storm drain okay I see I had hadn't mentioned that but it's good catch any other questions from the public I just have have a question about the number of parking spaces and how they're counted and I'm not sure if that's a question for you or for you know one of the other well I I did this plan so it's a question for me so um the first of all the handicap space the space next to it that's cross-hatched that's also 8T wide that's not a space that's this is Van accessible so it's a little bit larger than your typical so it's like that cuz that space the whole space is probably 16 ft wide so looks almost as if it could be used as an additional parking space I just want to make I you know just want to not the intent it's just when you have one you do a van accessible one so it's larger than your typical yeah it just looks wider than the typical space that you see for the van accessible so like wide enough that it could potentially be used as another parking space and I just wanted to clarify that it will not be used as a parking space that and then that's the intent and then also next to the building because there's pavement there there to me there's a parking space there that could actually be it's 8 ft wide it's 30 ft long that space that's not going to be used for parking either it's not intended to because the stairwell stairway is going you can pull past it though like if you're the way this park the reason I ask is the way this parking is being proposed is that the vehicles are going to be parked in tandem so theoretically you're going to be moving vehicles in and out if you need to get the the vehicle the front out cuz that's the one somebody's driving you you know you could do the same thing people do that in their driveway all the time I'm just trying to get a an better understanding of how many actual you know is it really 17 spaces or is is that a space too 17 spaces and they're going to be striped with hair pin striping and that area looks pretty narrow right where she's talking you could park a car there so that's why I'm at I just want to make sure this space right here it says 8 ft on my on my if it's possible to park a car there how are you going to prevent a car from parking my my feeling when I did it was that the stairway is the one that prevents you from going in there but there's no curb there so you could talk about driving over a painted line which but would the architect um perhaps have a who actually put the lines on the paper for this you this is sorry you okay I mean we could put right no parking a No Parking sign we all know what they do that kind of leads me to another question for parking if you're complete okay parking in Summit is a yeah spec not a spectator sport the reason why I asked about the depth and driving over that uh INF filtration system um one of the comments that I saw during the um video on when I read the the the transcript the other day uh is that you claim that the parking for those commercial vehicles is going to be hidden is there any way and what I'm concerned about is um and I kind of um when I was over there the other I drive by the site 10 times a day I live down in that part of the area um Lot 21 on low Avenue which is directly across the would be across L the last house before Magic Fountain yes they look directly into that yard the backyard of of this proposed plant is there is there any consideration given to moving those uh tandem parking spaces more forward so that those vans are hidden from the neighboring resid you might eliminate one spot at the top so you'd only have 16 the van's more pushed up more uh my NE and that leads me to to the question about what's the what's the wood structure shed for landscaping equipment blah blah blah I mean I might may have missed that in your video and the transcript but um I'm just curious as to why that wasn't given consideration or was it and you decided this is the best I I decided when I put it together I thought that this was the best way to do it um and I think why don't we I'll be here but why don't we listen to the landscape architect see what if he has yeah some comments on trying to maximize your parking I mean be honest you if they want 17 spots and this is the way to get it no I yeah I have one more question about that which reminds me because this was in the last meeting and sort of continuation of that but space 17 I think it's no 11 sorry 11 looks like it's sized for a commercial vehicle I know that Summit only allows like three commercial vehicles The Proposal is talking about six this actually looks like that space for a seventh it's wider it's the same length um can you speak to that and is there um you know I I'm concerned that that again once you put the space there and you a commercial vehicle that there will be another vehicle there I we do tend to use up all the spaces we have great so there might be um a regular size vehicle but the variance that we're requesting is for six commercial vehicles so that that's supposed to be for I feel like that space should be for a regular siiz vehicle then that's the intention well I think the space should be smaller I think that that'll be I guess for later discussion can you reduce the size yeah I made these parking stalls 10 ft wide just because of really a commercial vehicle but I could make this one eight and just bring this curb in I mean sorry nine your typical 9 foot stall white stall okay any other questions from up here I have a question in front of parin spot 11 it says one area on um so that's supposed to be removed that was um a comment from the engineer report so we've agreed to remove that it just was a carryover from okay okay drawing before that okay anything else yes sir just one question there was a sort of an openend question at the last meeting regarding floor area ratio has that been calculated it has and I'm the architect testif of that okay I'm sorry that I forgot to go to you go ahead anything else that the only one okay I went I went to her and I forgot to move on any uh any other questions from the board any questions from the public is there I don't even know if there is any public okay okay um let's move on to your next witness okay uh Michael McNerney all right if you could please raise your right hand do you swear from the testimony you're about to give in this matters the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth I do please state your name spell your last name my name is Michael McNerney uh MC capital n r NE y thank you and can you briefly describe your background and experience for the board oh I I'm an architect I I went to the got my degree from University and uh I received my architect's license in 1990 and I've been uh worked for various firms until around 2000 and then I've been on my own since okay and license in New Jersey license in New Jersey yes any questions from the board or would you like to accept those credentials any questions no please proceed all right can you explain the steps that you have taken to prepare yourself to give expert testimony uh uh yes I um I initially met with the client uh you know went out um visited the site and Drew up existing plans of the site um then reviewing the the ordinances and administrative uh I prepared a set of plans um I guess that's about it um and with with regard to the building on Lot 4 and the garage on lot three I would ask if you could go through your plans and explain to the board the existing and proposed conditions and highlight the proposed changes and upgrades okay the uh the existing the building on lot form for is mainly as existing uh interior um the at at at at some point um recently we we uh did an upgrade with the interior um we had we improved the fire rating between the the uh the first floor and the apartments on the second floor and um uh had added um I believe added fire alarms smoke alarms that type of thing um as far as as far as that the the um the the interior is is as is existing uh the exterior um will be adding a staircase in the rear remove we remove the the Old ST and then we're providing a newer staircase that's more Co co- compliant um right I think the plans had showed two options where we we're going to be going with option A which is shown on this plan here and the garage on lot three okay the the garage on lot three see if I get that okay the garage on lot three um um is is more initially existing wise is in disrepair so um it more or less needs some uh a slight upgrade some loving care it it needs uh it'll it'll need new garage do doors uh new roof painting um and possibly new new windows if necessary um so as far as existing okay and is the footprint staying the same yes the footprint the footprints is is stays identical that nothing is changing that way uh the footprint is currently um uh 24t in depth 30 ft in width uh a total of 720 Square ft is the footprint um I believe that um is is more than what you know is is the residential requires for that and um well as a so it's a pre-existing nonon it's a pre-existing non-conforming use um structure yes structure it's okay thank you the um if we if with the project we are going to um it Bec comes in an accessory structure and as a result of that the the accessory structure is only allowed to 576 Square ft I of ground space and so for so because of that and because of the because of the uh the change to an accessory you where you're going to have to get variances for for for square footage for d for for the dimensions as well also the the existing structure is uh 7 1 ft I've got 174 but I think in hear you were saying 17 ft 5 in High um but and and again as existing it's not conforming because it doesn't meet the height requirements uh for the um for the R6 Zone the it's it's 5T U five uh 156 right 15t 15 ft in height okay thank you and um so uh again as as an becoming as an accessory structure will have to meet and and also in we're getting into the newer stuff the the new the new work on this would be we're going to be adding a dormer to match the Dormer on the existing side what's the square footage of that the square footage space the addition the the the Lo the second floor Lo space existing is 76 square feet of usable space and we're going to be adding a 64 Square ft uh Dormer to it let's see what else we got uh the new Dormer um the plan was to match the existing Dormer uh mainly mainly just to to provide a little additional head room up there because it's it's it can be it's a little tight and um structurally it it works best to to build a dormer off the existing Dormer I I can put a rig be down the middle and support everything that way and what's the existing floor area of the garage existing floor area of the garage is uh 796 Square ft and the proposed floor area of the garage well okay floor area of the garage with the DOR brings it up to 860 square feet 860 ft yeah and accessory structures um under the ordinance only permits a floor area of 576 Square ft is that correct yes that's correct um and with regard to the overall f for the site um what is the um f for lot three the the required F okay the required f for lot three is 75% and lot three with with the garage ex is is and the Dormer is 37 uh 37.276990 14.06% so you comply with f yes I comply with lots yes if you were to combine the lots and you know figure out a new f for that it would come in at 27.6 present um and can you describe for the board the existing signage and what is proposed sure get there okay the existing sign you can see in this picture up here well that's the old sign the existing sign I'm sorry is just to the right of it um the existing sign is currently 4T wide by 4 it's the bottom of the sign is at 10' 7 in um the the new sign um it's currently a in it's currently a hanging sign off the side of the building and it's in internally illuminated uh the new sign we we're planning to match the the roughly the same dimensions it's it's going to be an oval but again it's going to be 4 feet wide by 4et 10 in high and and again planed to be a a hanging sign off the side of the building and does that uh the proposed signage require variance relief yes it does the um because it's a hanging sign it requires variance because it's um the character of the little painter it's over 30 square in again that I believe requires a variance also the height of the sign it's since the the sign is above the you know above the first floor of variance is also required and can you tell the board the reason for selecting a sign of this type and size and what the benefits are of the of the sign that's proposed well um the idea was to keep the same continuity of of of a type of sign that has been there for all the years and and you know and to and to to match it as best we can the um oh it's also an illuminated sign the sign colors are up here be white with like a red border the the reasoning of being higher oh kind of the same as it was is that it's mostly all glazing and Doors Down Below that hang sign from there the um the fact that it's it's it's a it's a hanging sign it's perpendicular to the building and in in in respects actually provides more visibility of as you drive by and and uh also to some degree I guess is a safer way you're not turning your head trying to lead signs as you're driving excellent I don't have any other questions okay questions from Staff first yes Mr chairman thank you um you would mention the building has been recently upgraded is there any other changes being made to theing uh no no just the just the stair it was it was painted though right uh outside the out oh yeah they had been painted in the past yes okay imagine being a painter take care of I'm sure um regarding the sign you had mentioned that the existing ones internally the proposed one is interally yes and it will match uh it's always hard to describe this but yet it's brightness um how would it will it be internally illuminated will be an LED type of system and is that going to be a reasonable level of lighting just trying to get the applicant to understand that okay got right that's something I have not thought of yeah regulations we you know currently have a brightness aspect of our regulations but it's always something we ask the applicant to consider right and now with LEDs correct get very you get very right yeah I think you answered my question on F thank you very much um the garage space when you calculated and also I I would ask you to submit your calculations so that we can review them as well as okay Christa and I I imagine at this point you're presenting that to the board with be understanding that they're correct and if there's any changes that if the board was to act favorably you would need to come back to confirm that but that's because we haven't seen the information ahead of time I just wanted to inform the board of that um and so when you did the calculations for the yes that oh in the for the the space in the The Loft area yes yes I did and you're not raising the height of theate no I'm not that stays existing thank you question and you just mentioned a potential submission of those calculations who would be reviewing them do you think I would imagent and does this make two items that we have not had submitted to us storm storm water calculations and garage Cal and this should have been right that we've had these for a long time right yeah it's something that they were going to provide to the board gu and it didn't didn't happen so we now have two items that were late on and I'm I'm questioning whether or not that should continue yeah I'd say the risk would be theirs uh if they're presenting that this is their calculation and it's right and if it's different then that's something that may have to come back to the board and describe why it's different and test that I would offer I've seen it done that way okay and I imagine that submission is acceptable and obviously you understand you're going ahead with that risk if they do happen to be off for whatever reason correct okay and they're not very close to the number anyway so there is someway there that there is some adjustment not let's hope we don't run to a third I don't think I'm willing to go there um okay any other questions from the board yeah I do yes couple questions about the sign so um when you were testifying you said sign up the proposing is oval then when you point at the colors it looks like it's rect this is the actual sign here this is this is just the to show the colors all right it's hard to see so it's okay so the actual physical sign will be oval yes it will be and the height of the oval you said would be about the same as yes it's it's also 4T 10 in so it would be the same as the existing okay all right thank you um I have a question about the sign as well um I know that the current sign is lighted within but I just like feel like it needs to be asked CU I drive by here all the time at night too frequenter of Magic Fountain um that sign is not lit though it has not been lit in a long time correct yes so we're trying to replace something that's lighted with that used to be lighted with something that is lighted so I just want to point that out like why I'm not sure I understand why that sign has to be replaced with I mean I like the idea that the concept of sort of a retro sign but it's not it's being made in 2024 and we have 2024 code for signage um you know I wondering if there's I heard what you said about that there not being a great place for a sign maybe not a sign that size but surely there's another place on the building where you could put a flush mounted sign as opposed to one that's hanging out and lighted trying to stay below the second floor line my first question question to this is if it hasn't been lit has the lighting been abandoned usually a pre-existing non-conforming condition has to be willfully abandoned in some way well they letter long time so we're we're just requesting a variance we're not yeah so they're not relying on a pre-existing nonconformity as carrying it Forward here they are asking for that variance I think if they were for example relying on a pre-existing non-conformity probably just the failure to maintain the bulbs or whatever is the reason for it not being lit uh not good enough to constitute an abandonment of that non-conforming use it has to show an actual intention to abandon the use under the law well given that it hasn't operated as an auto body shop in 12 years I would say then that's abandonment as well probably in some definition right it has the use of that has been abandoned since the tenant have changed then yeah if it's 12 years worth of time it probably could be considered abandoned at that point again we're just looking for asking for that a variance and we could also um have a condition of approval where they turn the light off on the sign at a certain time so that way it wouldn't be lit you know in the middle of the night obv this is a painting business so people are not frequenting the business in the middle of the night would the turn it off at I'm sorry would the signs that are in the windows advertising the painting business remain uh yes they will um they're they're roughly 24 in by 8 ft long so so did so are you allowed to have more than one sign like that yes I don't know yes i' have to find out about that in the business Zone you are true business any other questions I have a question um um since I mean currently it's operating as like two separate lots and you're trying to incorporate it all together are is I can't really tell from um the pictures can I just clarify I'm sorry to interrupt you but um it actually functions as one lot and it has been used as one lot since like 19 what was it 55 so are you the um the garage that you you're redoing are you using similar um materials or Styles so at least it looks like they I mean if you do if you're putting money into the garage you're going to make it look like it's actually part of the same um property I I think I think the uh the exterior was just to get a new coat of paint on it so we would probably match what was like the garage doors the windows they look a little different that's I was just wondering just those are a little those were a little modernized so well these are the doors on the building let's get the the garage I I think the intention for the garage just to make it look more residential because it is on a residential piece of property so the wind so we're not trying to like match the windows and everything just like I said because it's because it is operating you know this is It's a chance now since it is since you saying it has been operating as one um one business one property to be able to um have them at least style you know look you know go along together like for instance you know the windows it looks like it was like a like a Cott like a right craftsman style yeah yeah if you just just wondering what do we have over here can you repeat what the combined um floor area ratio is for Lots three and four yes you you put them together 27.6 three% CU you're you basically you're increasing the lot size by putting them together getting bigger you I see I'm just looking at the so any other questions can I ask a couple questions about the um the since we have the plans in front of us and it's showing us the apartments and everything and the garage underneath can I ask questions about the garage itself under the residential area why not I don't know you allowed to um I know they said that you're replacing or you have replaced the uh ceiling with 5/8 Type X fire rated sheet rock yes that's that's all been gone through the building department and has been approved and it's already been okay been done been done so there's been no consideration for fire suppression system in a commercial occupancy with residential uh no I think the the 1 hour raing is what they all they call for okay and um so all this has been approved by the building department um okay okay never mind okay lost my steam there any other question yes sure just just a comment on um the hisor historical preservation committee comments and the fact that they're maintaining kind of the Retro look to to the building and uh it was pretty supportive commentary that um as we kind of think through matching and keeping the you know I think the historical preserving the historical nature of of the property drive by there all the time it's it always catches my eye um because of I think the the time period but you know obviously it's a need of some upgrades and and Landscaping so aesthetic Improvement yes for sure can I just ask one one clarifying question um you mentioned that you were going to use option A for the stairs yes um can you maybe talk about what that does to that um that space that's next to it I think there was some questions that the board had before about it possibly being used as a parking space but in light of the fact that you're using option A could you tell us how that affects that that area next to the building that's possibly being used as parking space mean mean in this area here or yes for parking space right I guess you know it might have to be in conjunction with the engineers engineer yeah you might need both of you up here to talk about that okay so so that option is the same one that was on the engineers plans that right is I get you can you talk do you know how far that's going to extend off of the building how how far will it project off the of the building projects five 5T off the side of the building F feet off the side of the building okay so that leaves just to answer I I think you were asking that about what happens with that spot that's right next to the building so it only leaves three feet left for them to park in I don't know if that makes a difference I think it leaves I think my point was that if you don't have a car in the space in front first you can use that as parking space you can get in you can absolutely I mean yeah how many of us have to do K turn in our driveway maybe I'm the only one you if you drive by there today there's a we might have to try one of those parallel parking CS see if it can get in there if you drive by there today there's um a vehicle with snow on top of it that's parked alongside the structure right so that's just I don't see that you're you're doing what we're what she's asking today how will that change tomorrow would you put ballards up I mean you put no that's one of the things that we could do we could put Ballers there so you couldn't I mean I want a little space between the parking store in the stairs so somebody's not just driving in the stairs so possibly a couple of ballards there would would eliminate someone parking right up against the building and as long as we got you back up why is there a sidewalk from Mars Avenue coming off of mors and goes alongside the building that's where the door is to um there's a sidewalk across the frontage of mors Avenue but then it continues down along the building do you foresee people parking in that proposed drive to go to the residential spes no I actually someone that's wants to get to the office or the residential parks in the back the residential door is on the side and can you just show them where the four residential spaces are are going that are being reserved these would be these four four and then someone that's in the office that's parking their vehicle in the back there so am I mistaken that this is not a sidewalk or it is a sidewalk it's a sidewalk along the building right but then right in front in the front well there's a sidewalk along Morris Avenue so this this just bring a sidewalk out okay and front door to the office is there correct front door to the office is right right oppos the sidewalk so you so you envision perhaps a client stopping by maybe walking down the sidewalk to go to the office as opposed to well no someone's in the office and they want to get ice cream they come out the front I walking across the grass that's okay that's another story here well it does seem like that's another parking space though as you to the your point about the you know when I went by the other day there were 14 cars parked on the lot one of the cars was parked right there next to the sidewalk so well this is going to all be there's a curve cut no no I'm not talking about that I'm talking talking about where you're going to have the driveway that goes out to the road so that was being used as a parking space as well and and there's a sidewalk next to it so I can understand it just sort of connecting the dots with the questions here is in that could potentially be used as a parking space as well well I think you're reducing the size of that area from what's existing and that's also going to be an exit only um there's no Ingress permitted that was something that we had testified to at the last hearing that that area is uh exit only there a little there'll be a sign there so the the clients that pull in for a painting estimate don't park there I mean we can put one in I I would imagine that it would be dangerous to pull in because then you'd back out onto mors Avenue yeah I think I just think if you're coming from moris Avenue you might not even know there's a parking lot behind you're looking at you know painting store and there's a parking space and a sidewalk right there it looks like a parking space I think you could put a sign that says no parking or maybe something that says do not enter parking behind yeah yeah so can I go back to that parking spot on the side of the building sorry horse but I'm I'm wondering is there can you just curve it so that nobody can sneak in there to park a car or it's not used as storage which it sounds like right now now it's more like a storage spot there's a vehicle there with snow on top of it what if what if we just curved it instead of having the asphalt all the way up to the building why not just put curbing next to stalls 16 and 17 I would like to confirm with my client before I make that I have a little leeway but that may be more than I have but I will speak with him okay and then we'll hold off on that for a minute so sure you can do that are there any other questions are there any questions from the public okay uhor would chairman I'm sorry just I'm sorry to be a paying in that okay I believe there was testimony at the last meeting and maybe I'm not this is not the appropriate time to ask but there is a there is a a lot line going right down the center of this property correct so if we com are you ask you're asking to combine the Lots together to make one business Zone lot or you're going to keep them separate it doesn't change the zoning designation it so there would still be a zoning boundary line in the middle of the combined lot okay I just wasn't 100% accurate on that we don't have that Authority that would be up to the governing body to change the zoning thank you okay are there any other questions public board you have two additional Witnesses correct yes I'm going to suggest that we in the middle of Mr hollow's testimony that we take a f minute break sure which gives him an opportunity to get his answer and then he can answer that question before we move on thank you is that right that right sounds good to me e short deliberation we will put curbing in along this edge of this parking stool and I would tie it back into the corner of the building and we would remove the curbing that's proposed that goes into the building and just have a curve along that parking stall side so this would not be it would be lawn or gravel definitely not a parking spot definitely not a parking spot I mean we talked about ballards but we thought that the curb was the best thing okay any other questions from Mr Hollow or Mr any question to the public no you have another witness I do um John olivo the landscape architect [Music] good evening if you could please raise your right hand do you swear from the testimony you're about to give in this matter the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth I do please state your name spell your last name John olivo and I it's spelled o l i v o thank you and I am a principal uh landscape architect at bosenberg landscape architecture in Bedminster okay and uh Bachelor of Science from Ruckers University been practicing for 24 years and licensed for 20 years licensed in New Jersey and still in good standing it is uh number 938 thank you any questions from the board or would you like to accept as credentials questions from the board none will accept your credentials and your attorney will begin the questioning great and what steps did you take to prepare yourself to be ex tesy so initially uh met with the client uh at the site tried to understand sort of the the aesthetic goals uh the improvements that he was aiming to make to the property um and then sort of took uh the site Engineers uh site plans so he he did all like obviously the stuff that he just ran through all the technical aspects parking Etc uh they had some meetings with the zoning officer and then we overlaid sort of those aesthetic um desires uh into this site plan and in doing so we were reviewing the ordinance um this exhibit which would be exhibit A7 I believe is that correct um this exhibit actually reflects it is not in the plans that the um board members received and the board professionals received it reflects the commentary from the board professionals uh the city Forester uh the planning report engineering report um and some of those comments that are reflected on this plan specifically relate to uh there's a uh on the sort of Lowel side of the property which is the southern boundary there's currently a 36 in uh caliber oak tree or dbh oak tree sorry um and John linson's report mentioned that it was diseased and should be removed um especially with the new parking that was being proposed uh think there was a uh sort of a conflicting report I'm not sure if it was the planners or the officer it was it was zoning officer question if it could be uh maintained yeah so we did we did sort of run that experiment and really you would have to remove five spaces to maintain a safe um boundary around that oak tree um so we had sort of a question and then the City forest weigh in as saying the oak had some uh disease uh structural deficiencies and some disease aspects to it so with that he recommended adding U an additional shade tree to the plan that we had put together so we added a willow oak which is a um so more of a Southern Oak uh zone seven but as as those zones start moving up it's going to be something that is more resilient over time um the plan does Envision I believe it's 58 I'm sorry uh 57 Evergreens this this rendering which is 19 more than the initial submission um and I'm going to step back here uh Mr linon also mentioned there was a group of uh there was a dead ash tree I believe and a pinoke uh on this boundary here that were not in great condition and there was a desire to continue the Evergreen hedge um along the northern boundary line which would be actually behind a 7 foot um board on board fence um so we did also address that in this rendering and I'm trying to just recall if there were some other accommodations um so again 57 Evergreens three deciduous trees 110 shrubs 12 different different species so we were trying to make an effort to add a lot more plant diversity I would note that the Evergreens we have two different varieties and that being said it was to kind of create optimize the screening capabilities without um sort of uh encroaching on parking areas or neighboring property so they're very narrow upright plantings that will get uh the green Giants will grow 40 feet tall at their mature height which they run from the northern Corner uh down to the uh Southern low uh boundary and then along the uh Northern coming across to the Morris AB boundary we went with a uh Juniper Kettler eye which is a a narrow uh more um modest Evergreen only gets about 15 feet tall but still uh fairly large considering there are no screening elements currently uh in in especially this Morris AB boundary on the corner due to sort of sight triangle issues we proposed one shade tree but then went with a lower Evergreen hedge so we again still offering the aesthetic but this will um give a three foot three to three and a2t um buffer sort of softening the improvements that we're making to the project um there was you know Mr Nelson I think brought up a good comment about views in from the low AV portion of the property and I did speak with the applicant and we will explore um extending those Evergreens across the face of that but we will have to respect site triangles making sure there's like safe sight distances and additionally running the Hedge um the lower hedge across this Ada accessible uh area um um and I think um the Forester had also requested um that there be screening continuing um next to the garage yes so this rendering does reflect that and again this is your first time seeing it I do have um handouts if if those would be helpful or if this is adequate for now we can we can stay here and will those grow um tall enough to Shield the new Dormer yes maximum light would be about 45 to 50 feet um there are some existing shade trees here so I would say they'd probably be more in the 25 they're going to grow a little bit slower with that that shade aspect but still plenty to screen what's what's happening here and um how big is the buffer that's being proposed so this was the variance request from the landscape side uh the variance was the requirement was for a 30 foot buffer which would you know be about in the middle of the parking spaces here we're proposing a 20 foot buffer and I would say 10 of that is extremely intense I would also note however that on this boundary which is the western boundary there is a fairly robust existing Evergreen buffer there so we'd essentially be adding on to that existing buffer um again sort of Evergreens with uh being flanked by a mix of shrubs below and then a new planting of a willow oak um in that vicinity so in your opinion do you think a 20 foot buffer is sufficient to minimize the light from the vehicles I do I do because again we as I mentioned earlier we selected a very um strict habited Evergreen green so they're planted very closely together and they're going to create essentially a green fence um and again additionally which I haven't really touched on there is a 7 foot uh fence being proposed which I think would that lead us into our next exhibit here um is there also a fence between the property adjacent yes there would be a fence so you'd have your existing Leland Cyprus which is on the neighboring property which is I want to say it's every bit of I going say 20 ft right now maybe a little shorter 7 foot board onboard fence new plantings at 6 to 8 feet which ultimately will get a bit taller than that shrub layer and then lawn up to the parking areas which you know believe it or not when we do uh our landscape plans we do consider snow removal um um so that lawn area could act as as a snow removal area in smaller events additionally this larger lawn area may act as a snow removal area in in you know sort of larger events um should go to the next exhibit so this would be exhibit A8 this is A8 um these photos so the the top two photos are existing conditions taken on June 26th of 2023 so it's um sort of a view hitting the low Morris intersection and then a view more on the Morris moris AV intersection actually looking at this um the current the existing sort of parking area uh so what we did is we show a condition in both of these uh the next set of illustrations that shows sort of at the time of planting what what this will look like um and again I have sort of handouts if those would be more helpful but here's LEL coming right here Morris is running along the right side um we actually illustrate the uh proposed signage um um so again low hedge on the lower uh corner and then as we move up Morris you have your board onboard fence 6 to8 foot tall Evergreens with an a um planting in front of those of perennials one shade tree sort of uh moving which I can go back to that we have a red maple on the corner there which is which is right in this location and then in this sort of far right illustration that would be as you're looking at the structure uh across I was actually on the other side of Morris AV here uh looking to the Southwest so again board onboard fence Evergreens shrub layer red maple so so this was I thought a telling illustration because it again in in our illustration program these cars are in that photo and that fence is a 7 foot tall fence so um I believe there was testimony at the initial meeting about the height of vehicles that would be allowed uh the last two illustrations are after 5 years of of maturity so again with regards to the land landscape everything's going to get larger as long as it's healthy and I think the applicant has every intention of of making this a clearly a beautified um corner so again after five years your your Evergreens would probably be in the realm of 13 to 15 feet um so even reinforcing that that buffering of the uh the ve the vehicular aspect of this project I don't have any other questions staff um chairman just one question um in your professional opinion when you're looking at the buffer as well as the other uh improvements in the Landscaping um how is this improving the property what is it offering to the board for consideration in consideration of the use variance that's being proposed the commercial activity of the property from a landscape perspective so again um if we go back to I think the upper two photos are a good illustration of what's not there currently um and I think I want to say it's the transformational project but it is in some ways because of the amount of Hardscape that's being removed from the the facade and the the I guess the highly traveled way but again Mr Nelson brought up a good point about considering um other neighboring properties looking into the property so we will take another look at that because again um pull the plan view up but um I think you know if if there is an ability again respecting site triangles and safety to have an evergreen component on this this corner this boundary then that really really does a good job of concealing the vehicular aspect of this um yes you would see uh the architectural element um perhaps you would see one accessible vehicle but again there would be a continuation of that three-foot hedge so I I do think the the landscape aspect of this is is uh adding a lot of value to to to the project and there's a significant amount of ever right uh currently on this plan they're 57 and that that could be up into the 60 realm if we make these additions whereas currently yet yes it is uh unfortunate that this 36 in Oak has to go um just to I think it's a 26 in it was 26 on the survey but I think John mentioned 36 in his in his memo but that's a good yeah um so unfortunate to lose that but I think we are making very strong efforts to sort of reinvigorate the property with a wide variety of plantings thank you question thank you okay board members yeah I have a couple questions okay first I want to thank the applicant for allowing you to make this excellent plan I mean you know I I can't thank you both enough because it seems like you addressed all the Foresters concerns um I just want to make sure I'm seeing it right because it's kind of hard to see for me looks like that shed has been moved about half a parking lot width or half a parking space width or something yes um good that's a good point and I apologize for not bringing that up earlier but that was we did move that to allow the Hedge to be continuous which again um I I think the Morris AB um improvements and and I guess along this Northern boundary will help the visibility be or help the buffering of that utility space greatly um yeah and I I I really like the extending basically pretty much around the entire property and uh and with the with the possible expansion of that low Avenue to address uh Mr Nelson's concern great Improvement and I I guess um Mr Hollow just mentioned that the applicant's also willing to entertain whether it's gravel or perhaps a lawn space being curbed so that's not so much a a buffer but it is adding more planting to that current Hardscape area that's all I have I have one question just um something you mentioned right at the very very beginning just curious about it um the willow tree was the southern Willow from the willow Zone Seven willow oak or something um and we're we live in planting zone getting close to seven we're close to seven okay so it's it is for because you said something like it'll you know as the like it sounded like as the temperature start to increase in our area like that it might not be suited for our area now but it could be over time and I'm just wondering like is it suited for right now or is it you know Summit 20 years ago when I started was 5B and now we're I think Sumit 6B which is close to seven so it's slowly so point the reason this Oak was selected is because it's more resilient to some of the diseases that occur in warmer clim where Red Oaks which I believe this is a red oak is it's migrating northward meaning its range is so Willow Oak's more resilient to what's what's coming right so but it it's also good for like our current you know climate zone you know not 10 years from now but like today no no no it's still it's it's it's it's fine yeah but it is things are changing so just adjust you know modifying what we plant essentially I have a question um and it could be from for anybody before this but the garage door the garage is no longer going to be a function garage because you can't even drive a car into it correct I because I see on your diagram there's there's bushes in front of I mean this I guess the the asphalt doesn't even go into the the the right now um the drive does not go to the garage so it's just going to continue as is where it's not used for storage stor equipment any more questions from landscape architect questions from the public none okay shall we move final thank you Michael toia need a in here Mr chairman this is I'm assuming your system is working y it's my understanding it's supposed to be we find out right jure I [Music] doed that landscap okay Hillary said I you were there for a second yeah I know she said she'd rather me show you my travel photography that um technical drawings so we're not getting anything yet though are we where did you go why we I know it wasn't coun it just it just popped up I popped up for a second we saw your up there well he's also a child option if say it again please sorry sometimes windowology we just how do we survive um try unplugging it and plugging it back here I'm [Laughter] told superch this testimony doesn't count the bird does not speak we'll be ready to go in two hours just you all just sit down we won't be here and the next date's December 3rd anything don't move anybody okay so this is um some sfish photography I did in and you don't want to see that so what you want to see we still good okay I'm gonna give you a little slideshow we have swear in first if you could raise your right hand do you swear airm the testimony you're about to give in this matters the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth yes I do please state your name spell your last name it's Michael toia T o b i a The applicant's planning consultant thank you and can you briefly describe your background and experience sure I have Bachelor's in urban planning from the New Jersey Institute of Technology Masters in the same field from rers grad degree graduate degree work ended in 1981 I've been practicing continuously in this field since then with appearances before over 200 agencies of this nature planning board zoning boards as well as multiple appearances in Superior Court municipal courts and some of you know many appearances here in some of you and license in New Jersey is in good standing yes it is any questions or would you like to accept as credentials I see no questions please proceed your attorney will begin the question um so do you have anything to open up or okay we're going to walk you through the property um and um you'll see with with some um photography here um what we've been talking about in terms of basically um overall improvements to the site uh beautification to the site um with an applicant by the way that is only looking to add 64 square feet of floor area to the entire property okay so this is not unlike most of our applicants we're looking to add a lot of building space office space more apartments and so on this is about improving efficiency genes and operations on the site um this is a new exhibit I'd like to give you a paper copy um we on an exibit a n A9 and today's date is 21st 21 um so this is A9 um it's a PowerPoint of 15 pages photos dated August 1st of last year and uh and you'll send a copy uh a digital copy to missos tomorrow do you want to pass that way first okay so um we um the the u a A9 is dated um December 4th which was the date of our first hearing um and now let's go and share with you a couple things here we have an aerial photo of the site dead center on slide two and it shows the commercial building uh parking lot around the building moris avenue runs from up I'm sorry I'm sorry to cut in can you just move the mic closer to you they're not hearing you in the back thanks um so as I was saying Mars Avenue um runs from upper left to lower right on this exhibit and L runs from dead center uh to toward the lower left of the exhibit the garage is at the rear of the property as you know Mars Avenue is a commercial Corridor in addition to the school across the street the main land use nearby is Enterprise right next door except for some of you where the main land use nearby is Magic Fountain which if they had an application here tonight it probably would have been approved in five minutes right um so that's one of your local landmarks okay slide three um this this is the building okay the main building on the site as you heard has two bedroom apartments upstairs front and back two units total downstairs is the applicant's painting business TJ painting um and the building does have some historic long-term appeal certain industrialism to it the interior of it is done with old steel big heavy I beams um garage door at the front as you heard before a lot of glass up front um there is no physical change proposed to this building in terms of expansion slide four I've moved back across the street on moris and I wanted to show you the streetcape there's an oversized U curb cut across the front of the property which we're going to narrow down we've told you previously the garage door is important to us as a historical element it will be saved and used but only for occasional exit only traffic onto Mars no inbound traffic will be permitted nor will any cars be parked across the front of the building as you come around the side you see a side parking lot um that will be removed replaced with lawn as Mr holl explained to you earlier curb cut on that side will also be removed let's go to um Slide Five we come around the back of the building um and this is the main building still um that can levered element at the top uh second floor apartment uh stays um the staircase that you start to see here will be replaced on slide six you start to see some of the haphazard disorganized parking that's been on the site for decades and will be um corrected by what the applicant's proposing if this is all approved uh along low Avenue our Frontage here also has an extra wide curb cut toward the back of the property that'll get tightened up um and better organized than what's out here now okay now when we move to five L Avenue remember we move to a residentially PO portion a residentially zoned portion of the site this is an R six Zone it permits single family home homes and this Zone runs all the way down low where you do see a multitude of homes this is the dividing line between our business Zone and our residential neighborhood uh moving um down low all that's on it is the garage Hillary explained earlier it's been built on the site for decades it's been merged in use for decades with the commercial use that's been on the site um for for uh 70 plus years okay um so commercial use has been linked on this residentially zoned piece um for decades no residential use has been on the site um for all of that time um as we move to slide eight we're going to zoom in on this garage here I want you to note um there is an existing doorm on the second floor of the garage okay the proposal um that you heard from our architect is basically to mimic this Dormer on the other side of the garage left side of the garage as you look at the slide that's going to add um storage area to the building that's the only spot on the site where floor area will be increased and there it's by 64 Square ft most of our tool sheds in our backyards are are bigger than 64 Square ft but it will achieve symmetry up um on this garage most of it probably won't be seen from from passers by a buffer that I'll explain to you in a moment already exists to the left of that proposed dmer Edition and the entirety of the second floor won't even be heated it's only for storage okay next slide um I wanted to show you this um this is the the entirety the site from L Avenue um looking at both buildings on the property shows the main building it shows the accessory building once these two lots merge um the garage does become an accessory building that means although we're not changing its footprint a variance kicks in for the size of the footprint with 720 ft um existing 576 ft permitted if this was a garage in a residential zone so we need a variance moreover garages in residential zones are only permitted to be 24 ft Square the existing building has a dimension of 30 ft in length that's a variance even though once again it's in existing condition it's really intended to make sure our garages don't get too big in our single family zones really doesn't apply here but we had to notice it because we're changing the size of the building the other variance that relates here to the garage is the height we're working with an existing height of 17 plus feet in a zone that only permits 15 um we think adding the Dormer here is functionally important to the site it's not changing the overall height of an accessory building that's existed for decades okay and so um we get up got up into the attic and this illustrates um the Dormer now up there on the left side which has some seven feet of Headroom and no Dormer on the right side the idea would be to pop out this side of the roof and create more storage up here you can see it's not heighted heated we do have a light bulb up here um but it's going to be basically storage one of our stipulations that I'll go through with you at the end of the testimony is that if approved um the applicant will accept a simple condition that says no outside storage because we have the building for outside storage and the shed for outside storage and the first floor of the garage so you shouldn't see anything on the grounds anywhere around the um entire site um Mr olivo when he was just up mentioned the strong existing buffer on uh the left side of the site as you look at it it from L uh here you see it on the right side of this slide this is mostly offsite um even now when you stand on the site it's hard to see our neighboring home at seven L um Mr oliva's testimony uh demonstrates to me conclusively that it will justify our proposed expansion of our parking lot um our overnight parking of commercial vehicles because it simply will be impossible to be seen from Seven L as well as from Mars Avenue here we start to get into the main driver of the application which is parking on the site right now is a halfhazard mess okay things that are going to be added as proposed by Mr Hollows will be pavement curbing lighting Landscaping um Ada parking um stacked organized commercial parking for the vehicles that will will be on the site and they all one after another present uh special reasons to you all as a board to justify the granting of all the variances when we move to slide 13 you can see this halfhazard parking again stacked four cars deep and those are not the commercial vehicles um no striping either um and no storm order okay we only get a chance to look at these properties as board members and as professionals every 10 years every 20 years you know you don't know when an applicant's going to bring in a case but this is a great opportunity to make a comprehensive um review of the entire site here's the site I hopped up in the garage and shot out toward the Corner Magic fountains on your right okay and um mors is across the back of this building from this shot it shows you what's on the site now and how we can clear up um all the haphazard site design on the property now um Let me let me leave that up and we're going to go I want to go through the variances quickly with you many of them have been discussed already by prior Witnesses um the main variance um variances are twofold one our new parking lot um is placing nine parking stalls across the residential border into the r six Zone that requires a D1 variance from this board the reasons we submit to you that that works is is the organization modernization um and um Improvement overall of the parking lot now we'll have a double stacked parking lot with spaces that relate only to this building on a lot that will be used for nothing nothing other than this building's parking and storage needs okay um that's what we call a D1 variance um and the justification is just Bei beautification of the site um your ordinance permits One commercial vehicle to be parked overnight in commercial zones we are petitioning the board for six to be parked overnight in those stacked parking stalls that Mr um hollers explained to you earlier there is no better site um for the storage of these commercial vehicles than this site it meets what we call the particular suitability test if the commercial vehicles were parked any place else the applicant would be constantly um compromised by shuffling vehicles and finding other places to park stuff um and this is where they belong Mr olivo work at the front of this proposed stacked parking area is to add a fence add PL material as well as at the back the reason we don't like commercial vehicles parked on sites is a lot of times they look ugly but when they're totally screened from View and landscaped and so on um it's kind of no harm no foul and this is plainly the most important and suitable place for commercial parking to take place remember what happens by the way employees show up here in the morning pick up a van leave their personal car on the site and go to job sites okay um we've talked about um the hanging sign through architectural testimony all I would tell you about that is um we're proposing a sign that's about 20 square feet in size it's been hanging perpendicular to the building for 75 years we have a photo from 1949 that shows a sign perpendicular to the building advertising the old use on the site the reason we don't want to go with a conforming sign placed flat on the facade is its visibility would be much poorer to the traveling public because the building is so close to the street hanging signs are permitted in your um business district your crbd Zone which Springfield Avenue because buildings are really close to the street and when we turn signs perpendicular people can see them more easily that's why we want the sign if we put one flat on the wall it would be permitted it could be twice or more the size of what we're asking for so this isn't a question of overs signage it's a question of the suitable and logical spot for the sign um in our R six Zone because coverage is increased because of our new parking lot we need a coverage variance even though we're merging both Lots um the um proposed condition is um 53.2% in a zone that permits 35 the benefits of that coverage variance are first of all Mr Hollows has Managed IT um carefully with storm order management we've shielded it visually and without it we're defeating one of the main purposes of the application which is more parking and organized parking on the site overall by the way if we compared our proposed parking to the coverage requirements of the B Zone we'd be far below what's permitted okay um we talked at the last meeting back on December 4th that this applicant has virtually no loading needs whatsoever we're not getting tractor trailers coming on this site this is a a business that relies entirely on FedEx and UPS and Amazon for deliveries so we're asking for a waiver of your loading stall requirement recognizing that the applicant will have quick Del deliveries by um the carriers I just mentioned they'll be on the site for minutes at a time and there's no reason to dedicate a loading spot for something with such light loading needs Bill hollers has explained to you our lighting um uh waiver I won't go any further into that other than to say this is a lot that needs illumination because we do have residential tenants who will be coming and going all uh evening even though our business use on the property is basically a 9 to5 activity uh tandem parking has been explained um our accessory building variances have been explained and I wanted to talk to you for a minute where is John pointer you gave me a pointer right it's behind the microphone oh okay thank you one thing we haven't talked about tonight is a dumpster um which is being added to the site in an attempt to further organize the site Mr hollers is concluded the best place for the dumpster is dead center down the middle of the parking lot because that allows easiest access for our trash holders to get to believe it or not that dumpster then goes right across the zone line separating our commercial zoning from our residential zoning in the business Zone dumpster would be permitted it's not permitted in the residential Zone um so for that little design odity namely it's half in one and half in the other we request a variance to permit it recognizing from engineering testimony it's the best spot on the site for the dumpster and obviously every building needs a place to collect their trash so we ask for that variance as well um Hillary I think I got them all Hillary is always good at telling me I missed just one come on do it think we got that um couple things on your master plan which I think are helpful and they're repeated in your plannner report as well um the master plan directs you at page six um to protect the character of residential neighborhoods and distance commercial uh uses from residential districts um everywhere along Mars Avenue we have pressure points between our commercial land uses and one lot back is usually a home how you handle that interface is what the master plan's talking about here we're adding a 20 foot buffer we're adding fencing we're adding Evergreen plants in a moment I'm going to tell you we're going to commit to turning off all parking lot lights at 10 p.m. to further proct uh protect our homeowners to the rear this master plan goal is consequently met by the application um page six of the master plan says basically the same thing let's encourage effective transition zones between what's up on Mars and what's in the back we're doing that as well um and page nine same thing consideration should always be given to the impact of any development H that any development has on prevailing character and scale of the neighborhood we have to recognize our commercial use is not going away our garage is not going away the planning challenge is how to protect the friction between this and what begins at seven Lowel Avenue as we move down the street um so for newcomers to the board and I understand we have a couple um here um every variance you you you Ponder whether it's a homeowner case like the one earlier tonight or commercial case like this you have to ask yourself two basic things is it a substantial detriment to the public good which in plain language means is it really a bad thing for the neighborhood okay and is it a substantial impairment to your zoning ordinance okay are we taking your zoning code and totally ignoring it to get what we want in each case here the answer is no we're being extremely respectful of the neighbor behind us um in terms of the zoning ordinance we're dealing with a site that's in a b zone to improve it uh we have to Grant some variances to reflect the inherent awkwardness of only half the site being in the B Zone the other half being back in the residential Zone um we think our um our detriments here are minor what we've done with this uh applicant in terms of site design is really respectful of uh everyone in the neighborhood and in the city um I've been taking notes and and talking to my my client um through our two hearings now at one point or another we stipulated to the following which we'd accept as conditions if you all are inclined to approve this case one would be as I said no parking in front of the building where that garages exit only out of that building and we represented to you that that volume would be extremely light but cars might occasionally um want to come out the garage to Mars Avenue but it would be exit only we would merge the Lots that's already on the plans but it's in there too we would stipulate to no outdoor storage anywhere on the site um Bill Hollow said no lighting above 3,000k that I think is now on the plans but we'd make that a condition so it gets double checked lights off in the parking lot at 10 p.m. we only have two lights back there but we'd shut them off um the future use of the building um would be the same use that you have out there now um we haven't talked about this much but nothing's changing with the building we're not hiring employees we're not taking on new Services we're just doing the same thing that's been out there for 12 years now we'll comply with the city and engineer report um we'll add a sign oh I think some board me member wanted a sign saying parking in rear of site or something like that excuse me something like that we'll find a suitable site for that sign and then we talked about adding that curbing um along the the staircase in the back to prevent parking around that staircase which Mr Hollow has discussed tonight so um good application um I work rarely on cases that add this little amount of floor print footprint to achieve so much in terms of um uh nice sight improvements to the site um so that's all I got unless you think I missed something Marine no I uh just a few questions um regarding the overall uh varans requesting the amount of commercial vehicles on the property um typically the intent of that is to control the amount and scale of vehicles I was not at the December meeting but was there any stipulations as to the size uh and and I know the amount but the size of the vehicles um there're all commercial Vans it was represented at the last meeting that uh they are only 6' 10 in high no ladders on top of them okay so you see why we know a 7ot fence Works um and they're they're for the applicants exclusively for the applicant's use okay no trailers no no trailers no trailers okay because that would be one thing I just wanted to offer to the board is that obviously you're dealing with that that Nuance of the variant uh where you don't want to have something where in the future becomes a gr area where you can have larger Vehicles because what if this applicant no longer inhabits the vill the variance runs the land in the situation so you have to make sure you're putting safeguards to control that um we we'd step by the way if you wanted to limit it to those six Vehicles so you have that additional control understood okay okay um you talked about the um the overall impervious uh lot coverage for the residential lot or the residentially zoned portion of the lot right um can you talk a little bit about the intent of that variance the intend of that control so yeah that's a good question substantial yeah first of all it's intended for a single family home to be placed on the lot which means your zonian ordinance is saying if someone built a home there put a garage on and put a driveway there thre a patio in the back all that added up could not exceed 35% of the lot importantly when you move to the business Zone the same ordinance says well then you can go to 90% recognizing we use commercial we need we use our commercial sites much more intensely than we use our residential sites so intent here for the back piece really should not apply to what we're doing because we're moving more toward a commercial usage of it but the overall site itself is under its overall corre right right and I know you heard before by the way um about combined floor area you know we're at 28% you heard um and you know if you look at that against the business Zone 75% is permitted so this is really a low intensity use of the business Zone and even that F would be far less than what's permitted in the r six residential Zone true um overall in your testimony I know we have some new board members here I know you talked about the particular suitability of the property and the negative criteria just as far as the positive criteria you can touch on the purposes of zoning that are getting further by this so um okay so um I got it in okay so um for new members um you know generally what happens with justification of variances is we have we have basic goals handed down by the state that are are enabling legislation that creates zoning boards planning boards Master plans zoning ordinances the whole shebang at the page one of that legislation are basic goals okay and the goals say things like uh provide adequate air light in open space they say promote a desirable visual environment um promote the more efficient use of land most times when we have to justify variances we have to present to you that we've Advanced one or more of these goals my testimony um tonight has said we promote goals a c g i and m um and they are in plain language one we promote General Welfare of the neighborhood two we are still providing adequate air light and open space like our coverage is low we know we're still giving you enough Green Grass and enough landscaping for instance um goal eyes is a really important one in my field it simply says promote a desirable visual environment which means what we want to do here is figure out how we can can make stuff look good okay that was mostly Mr oliva's work on this how do you buffer how do you beautify recognizing it's still a business um use and the other one I wanted to bring up um is go M which says promote the more efficient use of land and here you saw all the slides the sight's a mess how do you make it more efficient how do you make cars park more easily lighting safer finally a spot for our barrier free parking space um and Landscaping lighting these are ways to make the site more efficient thank you okay any other questions from the board I have one and I I only came up Mr toia during your testimony you mentioned and normally we like the idea of of Lights shutting off at 10 o'clock at night or something like that but I'm wondering if their tenants there they're going to come and go after 10:00 would motion to teching lights be an option to address we could do that the the tenant spaces as you may one concerned about that I go ahead sorry um so I believe what they said is there's a light by the door and a light under the cever area those lights will stay on all night and where where is that in relation to where the tenants going to be parking so the tenants will park right here and there'll be a light under here and a light by the door okay I I if I think were me I'd like to have more light than that but I don't know if anybody else listen I I have a motion sensor at my place um we could add one if you want that could be directed toward those four spaces um you know Mr hollers explained to you last time these are LED lights now out here man we could adjust them in so many ways um if you want us to look at that subject to your staff review we could look at the one pole mounted light nearest these four spaces and adjust it accordingly you could do that thoughts on that anybody think it's necessary is there any lighting now for the uh in the just those two lights at the U what they go at 10:00 those two lights those four lights go off and there are two lights on the building on the building but there are lights currently there's no lights in the parking there's no in the park now there an issue I just which is why they Park Helter Skelter close of the door if I I'm just thinking if it's a business that's really there from till 5:00 p.m. do you need how much light do you need I mean the light lighting till 10 p.m. who's that really benefiting if the tenants could could be coming after 10 p.m. exactly which is my concern yeah you could light up those spaces those be motion the tenants parking space that's the only SP that we're going to we're going to pull up the lighning plan for you all just bill you want to take this it's not rendered but if you have this you have you have this drawing might be in the pictures lights yeah I could uh use the microphone take the microphone sorry what you're looking for the pictures on the build you could leave that that other picture on my so I think that's what he's talking about right that's correct there's a light under the CLE L right here there is no light at the door going up the stairs there will be one as part of the plan and then if we can go to a side so we got one light here no lights in the Attic hold on a second there's one light there's another light man on the building next to this door and that's this light right there right there and where are you parking the tenants the tenants right now just park along the edge of the where are the tenants going to be parking they're going to be the four parking stalls closest to the hole so they would be opposite I can come down through these four barking SS for the tenants so you would have a light under under the CLE lever area a light by the door and that was The Proposal was to keep those on and then there'll be a light maybe this one should be on a motion sensor because they not always going to come up this stairway and that was that's really our our original proposal was again leave the light by the door leave the light under the C lever I i' feel better with something by the parking spaces I don't know what I don't have the imagination to say what kind of like but motion build if they drive in the light goes on it stays on for four minutes it goes off I I think that's one of the reasons why the tenants currently park there a convenience and be lighting right under so do we want to add that as a condition do we want to add that as a condition okay yeah could you put something along the building side we're just talking about a motion to sensor either on the can lever to get those four stalls or on the edge of the building here to get those four stalls and on the motion sensor and they won't they they won't go out anywhere over the uh they won't leak out into any other property well we would okay make sure they don't sensor and let me clarify what we're asking for here are we asking for additional lighting over those spots or just a motion sensor for the proposed lighting nearest to those is there where is the nearest opposed lighting to the parking to the park residential parking here's the pole it's kind of in the middle of these these parking stalls then you've got another one on the mount on the building more so for the entrance and for the uh handicap so would a motion detector on the like you're proposing would that be enough do we I would have to I haven't done that on a plan but I could look into that to see if we can do that that'd be the simplest but I don't know if it's enough the light goes off at 10 and then the motion sensor comes on until next day time go on five or okay um so how do we craft that condition that's a good question so I think something along the lines of Lights in the parking lot shall be turned off at 10 p.m. um except for the lighting for the residential spaces which shall incorporate a motion sensor activate upon motion or something yeah something along those lines closest to those okay yeah we can I'm sure we can work the language out between these two August attorneys I have I think we have the intent clarified and we'll work on that language okay any other questions I have one about the I'm just a little unclear about the use of the the inside of the building besides the office it's sort of been described as many things possibly storage occasionally driving a vehicle through there but not all the time like if you can drive a vehicle through there sometimes why wouldn't you park two commercial vehicles in there in tandem every day and eliminate two of the commercial spaces and make that just a little bit easier to say well we're not asking for six commercial spaces we're asking for four I mean it seems like it's going to be used for parking at times that question came up on December North and our applicant explained the dominant use of the inside of the building will be storage and it has to be um and um we expect vehicular use of the building inside to be very light when that happens you're going they're going to have to move their storage out of the way and move build move cars around so there's that much storage that is needed for that building and the garage and the Dormer for for paint in I've been in the buildings the answer is yes yep there a lot going on when I walked by the other day it looked like there was a vehicle inside the building covered is there currently a vehicle being stored like an antique vehicle inside the veh inside the building I haven't seen one so we are storing vehicles in the garage is there gasoline in a car that's when it's stored I we could we could post applicant up if you want no I'm just when I walk by you know it's it's it's kind of contradictory I don't want to beat this to death I mean it's I understand what's going on here but if you're going to store Vehicles occasionally there's one in there with a with a tarp over it which looks like it's being stored so it's kind of contradictory to what the testimony is is the intention Tom do you want come back up for a he's gonna have to come up and be sworn he's been he was sworn he remains under sorry just all good we're getting to 1015 guys the intention to store Vehicles that's not the intention it's it's really storage very temporary well and that's not a commercial vehicle by the way no the that that's not there anymore it's it's another vehicle it's not a commercial vehicle it's very temporary okay will will they blue station wagon be moved off the lot yes it will the 1966 Country Squire will we moved see that's the old uh it's going home huh carbon oxide killer in a m exactly yeah but it's still got a lot of charm it okay other questions um I did have one when you were citing pages of the master plan um it's hard to follow along on my phone were you looking at the 2000 or the 20 16 and if it was the 2000 it's broken into section so there's like two Roman numerals followed by Arabic numerals so I looked at both I think it's 2006 and 2016 um and 2016 by and large carries over the ones from 2006 right okay okay and I wrote I mean just if you want to be clear goal one on page six yes okay and I was just trying to move things along I'm sorry but um and the remark about effective transition right right zones is goal one page six that's a repeat and objective 1.04 on page 11 thank you one more question for you we talked about you just mentioned effective transition which I would assume means that we're trying to buffer Residential Properties from commercial are we not moving that buffer that R six lot is a transition lot right are we not taking that effective transition and reducing it with your variance request we're putting parking in that spot which is kind of setting a besides that in the commercial number of commercial vehicles are we setting a a a a I don't want to say standard but we're moving that buffer so how many times are we you keep moving that buffer in in different like they just we just put a liquor store up the up the block was a different it's still a business Zone I would assume um but now yeah otherwise it would have been here and it was correct right so it it butts up to another neighboring residential property what we're doing here what you're asking us to do is effectively move that buffer and make it narrower I would um you can look at that one or two ways we're making it narrower because we're moving the commercial part parking onto the lot but that's why we got Mr olivo involved because coming from the residential property line at 7 L Avenue we're moving the buffer and making it 20 feet wider so the transition zone if defined by the buffer has been improved dramatically okay and this is what you have to waigh okay yeah ask fix the parking and how do we fix the parking without being a blade on the neighborhood and that's why Mr Aliva stuffed this thing with plant material and fencing and everything no it's a fantastic plan I'm very envious of the plant but my like just looking at this picture alone you can tell that the buffer is more than 20 feet the existing roundabout way yes yeah right okay any other questions I'm sorry I'm going to go back to the storage one more time um the because you were showing the pictures of the garage um are there any pictures of the first floor of the the garage or you know I there was some testimony about that in December but you know the the upstairs didn't seem it like bursting with stuff so I'm just wondering about like really the need for that Dormer because as the testimony provided you know the Landscaping is practically going to screen the Dormer really where it's situated you're really not going to see it very much from the road anyway so the argument of symmetry doesn't really resonate with me M um and I actually don't you know from the presentation and then also seeing a car parked inside the um facility not really seeing a lot of painting supplies or anything inside the building um I'm just wondering you know is this actually needed and are there any plans you know later down the road what happens here if we merged these two lots and now they're 60% sort of you know lot coverage is it it is that R six lot coverage always going to apply with that now it's 53% un unless it's unless it's changed by the council okay so if you come back and say we're going to change this or we're going to make this another apartment or something like that's another you know that's another variance another application yeah another application and we'll be talking about yeah for again yeah the other thing I just wanted to say is there's no storage in the garage right now because the roof is in such bad condition that it's leaking so he's not putting anything in there because it would all get damaged in the garage so where is everything being stored where are all the painting supplies right now being stored if we can't but like you know there's vehicles in the main building so it's I'm just wondering why I'm still wondering why we can't park any vehicles in the building it just doesn't seem like all this storage is being there's a there's understand there's a lot of storage in the main building a lot of storage in the main building so um that's where it is and there is some storage on the ground floor of the garage I didn't photograph that but there's storage down there also okay one more thing chairman Steiner um with the addition of the commercial dumpster has there been any consideration about pickup times as opposed to 4 o'clock in the morning so because I actually deal with that where I live uh I'm behind a commercial structure and you know 4:00 in the morning don't the truck shows up every Tuesday so it's a a common question as you might imagine and we could you know check with our vendor um and adjust times I don't know when they come to the site now we do know your the apartments on the site are just being by city city exactly y so is there a commercial vendor now picking up at the site or was that an addition now it's the city okay so there is so there will be another vehicle another J coming through which means he's got a back down last chance for questions from the board okay I'm done I'm I'm only looking at this side now okay to the public are there any questions for this witness from the public looks like we've gotten more public than we had before welcome um any other questions none okay would you like to provide a summary and closing statement very quick summary um I just want to thank the board for hearing the presentation tonight uh the applicant and experts have provided compelling testimony in support of the relief requested and Mr toia has thoughtfully and thoroughly outlined the planning rationale and proofs for the variances sought in connection with this proposal I'm not going to restate and reiterate what's already been said during the course of the hearing but rather just happy to answer any questions the board has any okay thank you are there any people in the audience that wish to come and make a comment or Express an opinion on this particular application I'm looking twice okay seeing none uh can we get to our conditions and the number of votes required yes we can with d variances we require five votes to get an approval um the conditions have mostly already been discussed I think I caught one that wasn't explicitly noted yet that we do need to confirm so nine total so far one is compliance with the conditions noted in the board Engineers memorandum two is the applicant shall submit the new storm water management system calculations to the board engineer for review and approval three is the one that I had noted but weren't wasn't specifically addressed we talked about reducing the width of I believe it was parking space number 11 down to 9 ft is that accurate of what we were going for and I assume the applicant made that representation are you okay with accepting that as a condition okay um fourth the applicant will add curbing to prevent parking in the 8ft space between the building and the commercial parking spaces fifth the applicant shall submit the garage calculations to the zoning officer for review and approval sixth there shall be no outside storage on the property seventh is that the lights in the parking lot shall be turned off at 10 p.m. uh lights for the residential spaces shall remain on with a motion sensored to be utilized for the light closest to the residential spaces um number eight there shall be no parking in front of the garage Bay and there shall be exit only only from the building signage shall be added indicating that parking is in the rear of the site and the ninth and final condition I have noted is that the six commercial vehicles to be parked on the site shall be limited to commercial Vans with a height of not more than 7 ft you're okay with all of those yes you don't have anything more than that I do not okay who would like to open up the Tom you've been taking copious notes all night I'm watching it uh you want to take a shot at it absolutely um so this is the kind of application we need to I think be very sensitive to because it's a it's a business right next to the beginning of a significant residential neighborhood so I think we need to be extra sensitive because of that um with this application hasn't going in favor of it or several things um the primary use of the property is not going to change um so I don't see any negative impact on the neighborhood from that or at least not more negative than it is now if if it is negative now um it would be certainly a significant aesthetic Improvement to the property uh you know the just the look The Landscaping plan you know contributes a lot to that but it's going to be very large aesthetic Improvement to the appearance and visibility of the property parking is going to be made much more Del delineated versus the chaos that seems to be going on there now um you know I I'm am concerned about the parking six commercial vehicles when one is permitted that's it seems to be a big a big leap but I I think the applicant and their planning expert made a compelling argument that it's it's justified in this circumstance and the significant screening will minimize the impact of that um I also think the hanging sign is justified by the greater visibility you know drivers won't have to be craning their neck to see what's going on I think it's safer uh to have um the the hanging sign um I already said it's not going to be I don't think it'll be substantial D to the neighborhood and actually I think it will enhance the neighborhood because I think you you turn on lull now it's a very unattractive property you turn on lol when this is done it's going to be a very attractive property so I think it actually enhances uh people are going to be driving through their neighborhood so I I I can enthusiastically support this and just for I guess Tom or anybody else who would like to comment I would like to also hear your thoughts on you heard the term that the site is particularly suited to the proposed use that's required because it's a D1 use variance um so I do want to get some opinion from the board on whether it is particularly suited to the proposal well is it useful say it's particularly suited because it's been suited for for for many decades to have some kind of a business there and we're used to having there is that that helps that's a good argument okay I will make that argument anyone else I um I think you know this plan most of this plan makes a lot of sense I appreciate sort of the concessions about the parking I think the Landscaping is great um you know to be honest this site for many years for as long as I've probably been going to Magic Fountain has looked a bit of an eyesore right in terms of what is going on with the parking there and it is chaos I think as Tom said um so I do like the organization the fact that a lot of this is going to be screened um I'm not sure um I yeah the the tandem parking is also not allowed and I don't really know you know what the reasoning behind that is but I know that's so it's one commercial vehicle and and nobody mentioned that but the T I mean it was in the notes but um tandem parking is also not allowed so it's really two different things regarding the commercial parking so that's something that um I guess we also have to weigh it is and is that just for the inconvenience like you're you're testifying that you will be able to handle this and manage the vehicles coming in and out of the site and moving everything around um and if so I think I can get around that I'm I'm sort of not in favor of the hanging sign I think it's too big I think that the existing sign is sort of yeah it's vintage if the business were still there it would be kind of cool old vintage sign but now you're doing so much work here to bring it up to sort of standard I feel like the sign should be something that meets the code um and should be just on the building I mean it's cute but it doesn't meet the code and I don't and it's you know not super I think people can still know where where the painting you know TJ painting is located without the sign hanging perpendicular so that would be the one thing that I I would like to see changed okay any anyone else want to hop in let's try this side I'll jump in I think it's a really thoughtful plan um it'll be really nice to see you know the improvements made to the property it is a bit of an isore um the cars are parked there today and to me nothing's really changing in the use of the of of the building is just going to be more organized more efficient and quite honestly it's nice to see uh the small business remain in Summit um and make these types of Investments improvements in Summit while they're staying here so um I'm I'm supportive okay um I agree that this would be a huge Improvement I can't get past the D1 variance requirements um Summit is at this point on the almost fully built up there is a crying need for housing in a way that there was not 70 years ago when this use first began um and in fact goal four of the master plan revision says promote a city that's welcoming to residents of all ages races ethnicities abilities and income ranges um this is an income range the the R6 Zone addresses an income range where we really need housing one of the outcomes for plan 4 is to increase housing options for young adults empty nesters and seniors again the r six zone is ideally suited for that and I cannot sign on to per oh I'm splitting in infinitive um permanently to remove a prime piece of R six real estate from the housing stock so I'm going to have to vote against this okay anyone else um I'm struggling with two things along with my cohort here um we are we're moving the buffer and it is a residential Zone it is I mean excuse me a residential lot um and what happened well we're we we're asking for a request for six commercial vehicles we're only allowed have one we're we're we're are we tweaking this too much uh and what happens when you need eight what happens when you need 10 what happens when somebody else comes along and says well we need 12 where do we draw the line those are the two things that I can't overcome um however um the positives are very positive I mean it's going to look fantastic it's you know I won't Rec if I Clos my eyes and drove down Mar Avenue and this was done I wouldn't recognize it in that area of town um I just and continued use it's going to be the same so it's not changing it's just being more organized um I just I gotta make a decision if the two what I believe to be two negatives uh outweigh the positives that's all I have to think about right so I'm I'm not going to give my opinion right this second I'll wait till the vote anyone else wanted yeah I I I think it's going to be a huge Improvement to that corner I think it is you know right now just looks like an asphal jungle with all the uh the cars and the mess in the front and the side um I like the idea that it's there is no um increase to the building um we have enough overdevelopment and I don't want to see anything being developed so the fact that they're leaving the um the low um Avenue piece of property with just the garage is a positive thing to me um the only thing I just don't understand is the lighting till 10 I still don't understand that aspect if the building's done if the business is done at 5 um you really only need the the lights for the for the tenants so I don't really understand why the back part of the park a lot really needs to be lit up after business hours um but I think the Landscaping plan is excellent um I think the view from you know from everywhere all around I think it's going to be good and happy to see you small business you know put it put money back into the town in in a nice way uh Mr gy well I've been driving past that building for 52 years and it I mean from what's being proposed here I mean to me it just seems like overall Improvement to the whole General view of it it just improves the site tremendously and I'm not too concerned about the buffer part because you know I look when I look I the Magic Fountain is right across the street and that thing's pretty well lit up at night in the summertime so I believe it's open later than 10:00 also and that's pretty well lit up so I don't think that's too much different than what they're asking for here and the property that's on low next to Magic Fountain there is no buffer cars are quite right up to that property so I mean to me there's just too many positives I'm just going to add a little bit more I mean I I I I think for me this major selling point is that it is such a major Improvement and you know I hear Claire's concern about about residential you know use but least the two units are saying there and I think the ship has sailed un lot for ever being residential um so I I I certainly hear the concern but you know I I don't I'm not sure how how realistic it is to to expect that that could ever be residential the way the the use is now it's basically it's such a huge improvement over what's there now that um that's really the overall exclanation why why I'm in favor of it well having heard everyone else I'll tell you my thoughts um I am uh looking at this uh first of all we're gang we're gang parking all these these uh commercial vehicles and I haven't figured out yet nobody testified as to how they're going to get out does everybody leave at 9 and 9:01 and they're all going to pull their trucks out I don't know where their cars are going to go but they're going to pull all their trucks out and then pull all their cars in uh we're going to have a wonderful mess there at that point um but I also have to tell you I'm guilty of parking in that parking lot to go to Magic Fountain because if there's a space there I'm taking it um but there's I do have a problem with the with putting the Lots together uh and I I think that um although the Landscaping is great uh the concept is good I'm not sure that it gives us what the master plan tells us we should have and uh nor does it uh uh handle all the parking the way we should be we we didn't get an answer about the uh about this the cars in the G in in the building today uh that apparently are there and all the storage is there and I guess what they're doing at this point is they're cutting down in order to be able to get everything in there that they need right now and having less storage uh buying fewer uh fewer things at this point uh in order to get down uh to to wait to see what we do and uh now that we're going to do it uh they'll uh they'll they'll have to move forward with this um I uh I I'm really afraid that I'm not going to be able to support this one but uh I would entertain a motion can I ask a question just uh because just because I haven't been to that many zoning meetings the let's just say there's a vote just can you go over what happens if this say doesn't pass what then their their application is denied and a motion a different application can be put a different application could become uh sometimes we get a request before we vote to do something if there think there's a way that they could uh improve the application before we vote but that's not uh that's something that I've heard at this point so uh we will go I sorry did you I have a qu I'm sorry you Joe you was um um chairman ster you was saying that it's combining in the properties but I thought that was were very clear that it's not that there's still it it will never be used separate properties again let me weigh in they are applying to combine the two lots into a single lot but that does not affect the zoning the zoning boundary still actually goes cuts through what is proposed to be now a single lot so if the property sells can the next owner say okay on the r six you know the residential build the house and can they change it the r six portion remains R6 they would have if that was The Proposal they would have to then subdivide what is now going to be if this is approved a combined lot to allow for the you know R six use as residential again so by combining them now even though they kept SE separ zoning is it make it easier for the next step for somebody to buy to combine it like is it is is are we working inching our way towards where it could be an all One commercial it's a separate process to go get that approval from the governing body to change the zoning boundary that can happen IR relevant of what happens here tonight okay did you have a we just have a moment is that okay all right what we'll do is we'll table this for a minute we'll we will continue with our resolutions and other um business and I'll come back to you very very shortly um we'll go to Stephanie and uh ask her to um handle the resolutions at this time sure the first resolution we have is 155 Canoe Brook Parkway that's zb- 23- 2221 block 511 lot six Nancy deliso and car sorelli our eligible voting members are chairman Steiner Vice chairman Letts Mr Yugo Mr Nelson Miss Don Mr Malay and Miss to can we have a motion moved second second okay Mr Yuko yes chairman Steiner yes Mr Nelson yes Miss Don yes Miss to yes the motion carries okay the next resolution we have is 19 Oakley Avenue zb- 23222 block 1703 Lot 4 Steven and Salange Burgermeister the eligible voting members are chairman Steiner Vice chairman lits Mr Yugo Mr Nelson Miss Don Mr Malay and Miss to would someone like to move that I'll move it second okay who second second M Mr Yugo yes chairman Steiner yes Mr Nelson yes Miss Zan yes Miss to yes the motion carries our last resolution we have is 16 Edgewood Road zb- 23-22 one9 Block 3402 lot 14 Brett and Amanda Newman all eligible voting members are chairman Steiner Vice chairman leits Mr Yuko Mr Nelson Miss Zan Mr Malay and Miss to would someone like to move that one I'll move second okay Mr Yuko yes chairman Steiner yes Mr Nelson yes Miss Zan um am I just reaffirming what I voted or am I approving you're voting to approve the resolution the resolution as presented to you for Ed so if I voted against it what do I do I say no or do I say if you voted against the application then you can't vote for the Sor I why I was thanks for clarify sorry about that um so miss Don was not an eligible voting member um and Miss to yes okay the motion carries so next we'll do the minutes for approval uh the minutes we have are from February 5th 2024 um everyone who was present for that meeting can uh participate in The Voice vote the only members excused from that meeting were Vice chairman lyit and Mr feskin who are not here at this meeting can I have a motion some moved second okay all those in favor I any opposed okay okay we have uh have we have had requests from the governing body to U look at two items uh one is the uh committee appointment to the shade tree uh advisory committee and I am pleased to advise advise that missan has agreed to take on that role uh I believe we don't need a resolution it's something the chair can do uh and secondly the council has appointed uh Scott our vice chairman Scott to the Mount Laurel subcommittee on affordable housing and I understand there's a resolution that we are required to pass even though they've named them I'm not sure how that works but that's it so we would look for a motion to confirm uh our approval of Scott to the Mount Laurel subcommittee on affordable housing so moved second okay and we'll do a roll call vote chairman Steiner yes Mr Yuko yes Mr Nelson yes Miss Don yes Mr Kieran yes Miss to yes Miss chfo yes Mr Chuli yes the motion carries okay um Scott's supposed to be here and was going to be here to talk about the annual report he has the flu he is not here um what I can tell you is that he and I will start writing it um and uh move forward as uh as quickly and expeditiously so you have one more shot at getting Scott any comments that you may have before we start writing this thing up so did you send them my comments I just sent I sent them on yes and uh I'll make sure that they're certainly included in that and I believe our uh we'll go back to our appc application um we've spoken and um I guess can we request um an adjournment to come back and make some modifications based on the comments that we heard from the board members okay um what's our next available date if any so how long do you think you'll need minimal amount of time minimal amount of time ballpark when is the next available meeting so I could probably get you in on April 15th but it would have to be it would have to assuming that it's fairly quick but they be last on the agenda first I could put them first if you can get it done quickly we we give them a half hour and if they don't make it we adjourn them till the end that sounds fine how does that work for you I'm good 15 okay uh is anyone okay can and so we we would need a motion to um to carry this forward and uh you would be granting the board time to act and notice and all I assume it's without further notice and without further notice because the public that was here was here uh which wasn't um is there a motion to that effect I'll make a motion based on the applicants request to okay second from Tom Mr youo yes Mr Nelson yes Miss Don yes Mr Kieran yes Miss toad yes Miss Chapo yes chairman Steiner yes the motion carries okay and just a reminder that we have some training coming up uh that you've all been uh getting some dates and the 15th is one of them right yeah so the 15th can't be long for sure okay uh then we would uh look for a motion to adjourn till our next meeting on March 4th so move all those in favor I I all those opposed I'm sorry did someone second I'll second it so is that train on the 15th going to be after or before going to understand