##VIDEO ID:EmnbLzNEPaM## e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e good evening and welcome to the September 16th 2024 meeting of the city of summit Zoning Board of adjustment my name is Joe Steiner I'm chairing the board this year please rise and join us in the Pledge of Allegiance I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and in accordance with the New Jersey statute 10 col 4-10 adequate notice of this meeting has been provided to a newspaper of record and has been posted here in City Hall this meeting is a Judicial proceeding any questions or comments must be limited to the issues that are relevant to what the board May legally considered in reaching a decision and decorum appropriate to a Judicial hearing must be Main maintained at all times for the benefit of the interested public this meeting is being live streamed to the city's YouTube page and is also broadcast on summit's governmental Channel which is Comcast channel 34 and Verizon channel 30 a transcript of this meeting is also being taken using the video and the audio so we need all speakers to utilize one of the microphones in the room and they're all up front so when you come to speak uh for any reason you need to come forward please note that the fire exits are to my right your left and to the back of the room where you entered the city does have a listening system to assist the hearing impaired if anyone needs the hearing assistance please obtain the system here at the deis and return it thereafter Madam Secretary would you call the role of the members sure chairman Steiner here Vice chairman lyit here Mr Yuko is excused Mr Nelson here here miss Z is excused Mr Kieran here Mr Malay here miss to here miss Cho here Mr feskin here Mr Chuli here you have a quarum you may proceed okay directly to my right is Andy ball the zoning board's attorney he will be advising the board members on matters of Law and he is the key interface with the applicant's attorney Mr ball does does not vote on the applications Stephanie suos whom you just met as a city employee and as the zoning board secretary Miss ulos works with the applicants on preparing their applications planning our agendas and keeping our meeting minutes she also does not vote on the applications also present are our experts who are hired annually by the board to provide input to us tonight we have Marie rafy from CER engineering and also present is Ed snikes from Burgess Associates are board planner these experts are seated at the table to the right of the board The public's left and they also do not vote on the applications our board has uh seven members regular members and up to four alternates all members can participate in the hearings tonight but a maximum of seven can vote most applications require a simple majority to be approved before we enter into executive session to vote on an application you will be advised how many votes are required each case will begin with the applicant or their attorney giving an overview of the application and the process that has gone on to date and the variances that are required we then hear from any additional expert Witnesses the applicant may have to help explain the application and why the variances are needed board members may ask questions of the applicant their attorney and the expert Witnesses once the board members and the board professionals have completed their questioning the public will have an opportunity to ask questions this is not the time to tell us what you think about the case that opportunity comes at the end of the hearing before you ask your questions please clearly state your name spell your last name and provide your address it is important that our court reporter be able to keep a clear and accurate public record which once again is why we insist that you come forward and use one of the microphones after all the witnesses have been heard members of the audience have their second opportunity to speak and at that time you may express your opinion positive or negative about the application the public hearing is then closed and we as a board enter into executive session where the board members discuss the case and vote you'll be able to listen to that executive session but you are not normally able to participate in that discussion our City's zoning officer has asked that we remind all applicants that they must carefully read the resolution that documents the zoning board's decision and pay particular attention to the conditions contained in that resolution for example if a landscaping plan is required you have to obtain one and submit it to our city Forester John Linson if a grading plan is required you must have one prepared by a civil engineer and submit three copies along with the application fee to to the city's engineering division failure to satisfy all of the conditions in a resolution will result in a delay in approving your application as it will cause additional work for the City Zoning staff the resolutions documenting the board's decision are normally available one month after we decide the case two cases tonight and we'll Begin by asking each one to come forward to the podium and advise us how many witnesses they have and if they feel they can complete their case in 30 minutes so we begin with u Elena Holdings 29 Ridge R good evening Mr chairman members of the board James Weber and Samantha Alfonso on behalf of the applicant two witnesses we should be able to conclude in 30 minutes okay and the second one is 479 Morris Avenue Morris LLC for 477 and 479 is having me Mr chairman members of the board Larry C on behalf of the applicant we have three Witnesses 15 minutes or less for each so 30 to 40 minutes I think of direct testimony we're going to keep it as lean as possible okay um based on that we will begin with the first case at 29 Ridge Road is recusing just okay we have uh one of our members is recusing himself Caris thank you now I'll bet if he's out he's Weber you're not that we haven't seen you here before should let me use the chair do we have a new battery in that microphone uh I don't know okay I just thought we'd check on that handheld one thank you Mr chairman James Weber on behalf of the applicant Elena Holdings this is the corporation with which Matt michalopoulos is the managing member Mr mopolis has brought other applications before this board recently Hobart avue knew before that Dogwood and he's a resident of the city of summit living on deari what you're seeing up now is a perspective of the house that's currently under construction the roof is on now and it is moving toward completion they should be able to get to the inside soon and what this shows is the perspective of the proposed Landscaping along the front on Ridge Road if I can draw the board's attention then to the site plan thank you uh Sam sorry it turned on me the site plan proposes a uh steep slope disturbance of 3800 Square ft where 4,000 square ft exists on the site that 4,000 is basically uh due to two burn one along Fernwood and then one on Ridge that apparently were uh the remnants of the excavation that existed when the original home I think it was the Liss home uh Mr chairman so may have been LZ Pharmacy's home I'm I'm not sure but uh the original home uh has been demolished it was of no uh significance according to HPC and it had suffered from deferred maintenance over the years when we're looking at the site plan if we can scroll in toward the driveway to the north are the glass bands property and Lisa and Todd Glass band are interested neighbors they're here I also thought I saw Phillis sank here and I believe she is there there's Miss sank and she is to the left of the property with regard to the driveway the driveway is set 8 ft off the lot line as the board knows 2 feet is required this is four times the required setback in order to achieve a greater degree of space between this lot and the glass band property likewise the retaining wall That's proposed and that's shown as a black line is set back 5 ft from the lot line as well again more than is required with regard to the storm water and the area that is being disturbed by this uh or the amount of steep slopes being disturbed by the improvements they would include where the dry Wells are being installed and then to the right along Fernwood there's an area of steep slope that will be smoothed out and then A long ridge that is the burm that I referred to before that looks as though it's the excavated Spoils of the original house there's also a minor amount of steep slope to the west and then there is a steep slope uh right on Ridge next to the construction driveway that is not being touched and those four trees that were are currently there plus a fifth will remain likewise there's a tree in the far Northwest Corner that is also being re uh retained there has been discussions with regard to trying to work to save the Norway spruces that are along the north wall however the proposed development of this property will not allow them to be preserved they also suffer from what I'm told it's called needle cast needle cast is a fungus that apparently uh drops the old needles and so you end up with what would look like a lion's tail with regard to the beach that are also on the property they are suffering from what's called Beach Leaf Disease the uh disease is the result of nematodes and a fungus and it is affecting all of the beach trees in Summit it is a fatal disease unless it is uh treated but the treatment is only temporary with regard to the Landscaping if I can go to the Landscaping plan yeah the Landscaping is being prepared by Jared kest a certified landscape architect and a particular note in the landscape plan when we look at the row of of green Giants on the North property line it includes three green Giants at a 20 to 22t height at planting that is a remarkable number and usually what this board sees is 8 to 10 but out of uh consideration of the position of the glass bands along that North property Mr mopol has directed Mr kest to install three three and the reason I pause is I really in a future application by another applicant I just would hope that the board doesn't say can we get a 20 foot tall green giant on some other Landscaping plan this is a unique setting and it's one point that if the board approves the application consideration should be given to conditioning it upon a 2-year retention of jurisdiction because the larger the trees the less vibrant they are and they're not as capable of being transplanted so that is one point that would be suggested likewise there's uh 14 to 16t Green giants that are also in there and then with regard to the uh the rest of that wall the uh there's an extension of additional green Giants there are a number of deciduous trees throughout and one of the comments and this is for Miss s's ears she wants the hemlocks that uh are on the property line between her property to the left and the property under consideration to be preserved they will be preserved so they were due to be removed D and that has been changed so they will be preserved unless the board has any questions of me I would get into the steep slope uh application and call Andrew Clark to the stand to be sworn in to give testimony first of all thank questions from the board you're up first in fact I need the applicant uh the first thing I thank you for this nice introduction however I have a few uh questions that are uh necessary for me to evaluate the reason we're here is because there was a violation committed by the applicant at this location so I wonder at that time that is March 3rd in 2024 uh was the construction situation at that time was it completed was that house no the house was not completed house was it was under construction there was uh there was a house that was demolished when was that house demolished that house would have been demolished I believe in 2023 yeah is is the applicant going to testify we can ask him that question then I was going to go right to the steep slope but to the extent that we there is there has been a lot of discussion or a lot of concern about what happened uh and the fact that there had to be a stop order uh we are supposed to hear testimony tonight from somebody as to whether or not everything happened the way uh our city our city uh zoning folks and the Department of Community Services has ordered uh we're looking for that testimony from uh from I assume the applicant from you from whomever uh to know exactly what did happen uh and where we are in this situation very good with regard to the notice of violation there was no stop work order the notice of violation came out in March 13 and it had four conditions associated with it those four conditions have all been met if we can take what I let him answer the question first what I'm showing you is the report of uh Lindsay Knight who is your planner who acts on behalf of the city in lie of Christa Anderson and if we take a look we see that in her first point Mr shreer has confirmed the applicant has addressed all items identified within his letters those were the letters that were the notice of violation so uh Miss night has confirmed that that's all been done that all four uh steps have been met and that included getting the application in within 30 days so it's all all attended to in that regard with regard to the disturbance itself that came as a result of a tree removal as part of the tree removal while the contractor was there and the trees were cut down decided it would be efficient to remove the stumps when he removed the stumps he Disturbed the soil and as a result that's what triggered the steep slope disturbance were the these trees removed without perit no they had a permit to be removed okay and at the time that they then were cut down then the decision is well what do we do with the stumps we do it later or they did it then they did it then but let's go back to my question what was exactly the construction status conditions at time of this violation I believe that the Foundation would have been poured at that point the foundation would have ped I think so the foundation was poured uh framing have we're going to need to bring you up and get you sworn in if you're if you're going to testify I'm uh staying with the attorney yes so at this stage um do you have percentage of the disturbance that was available that required a uh this we've anticipated that question Andrew Clark will have that information thank you than you um so I understand that there is a letter from the Somerset County there an email that was sent to uh Andrew Clark and that was conveyed to Aaron Sher okay thank you that's all any other questions to the attorney from at this point from the board Mr chairman is the applicant going to testify to answer the other question otherwise I have I don't know if he's that's that's a question that the uh that the attorney will have to answer for us then I'll I'll ask the question to Mr Weber right now is what was the they took down the trees they were always going to grind the stumps what was the plan for the disturbance at that time at that time as with most steep slope disturbances and the board has seen this when you're in the midst of construction and you're constructing a new home the determination as to where the Landscaping is going what is going to be provided as an amenity for the prospective purchaser is still going to develop so as that goes along then the decision would have been made later on to say okay what do we need here that has been accelerated in this application because of the violation by the removal the Steeps uh of the stumps thereby creating the disturbance of the steep slope ordinarily the Landscaping those decisions all go with the the input from the perspective purchaser so are you testifying that you would have been in front of this board for a variance at a later date perspectively it would have been properly yes but at this point since the application had to be brought to the board we know that the board wants to see the full picture so as a result at this point it's the full picture that's being presented and some of the earlier things that we've seen uh indicated that you were going to clear the land completely and now you're not so there's been lots of changes the statement by Mr Linson of a clearcut is not that far removed so it's not completely accurate there are uh uh two significant trees being retained there's the four trees next to the construction area that are being being retained so there are trees that being retained but other than those most of those trees the ones along the front on the BM are going to be removed and and uh replaced with other trees uh the trees uh along the north property line the uh that suffer from uh the fungus uh the needle cast those are going to be removed and those are the ones being replaced with the green Giants of significant size there's also Norway Maples along the proper line with the sanks uh those will probably be removed as well those are shown in the removal of the uh trees there are three trees that are significant 36 in each and those are in the middle of the yard but because a yard in order to manage this steep slope is going to be raised up as Mr Linson indicated they will not survive what the applicant is willing to do is the city has adopted a new tree ordinance uh just this summer uh while it doesn't appli to this application nonetheless the applicant is willing to say on the replacement they will be guided and held to the standards in the new ordinance so it'll be the first time that this is going to be applied and we'll see how that works and so that will be something that they'll have to go for the tree permit if the board approves the application and then they will have to comply with the new standards for replacement trees and they're willing to do that okay any other questions for the attorney have a question um so um referring to Mr malle's question before so on uh was it March 13 at that point was just the foundation was poured okay Mr Clark the engineer just indicated to me that he's willing to go all over this because he had done the survey and he was on site he'll be able to answer that question uh more authoritatively than I will well we we may come back to it if we need to but uh we'll hold off at that's at this point so my question was is if there was um there was a violation on March 13th and we only had a foundation um by continu in building the house I mean the house looks like it's pretty much I the roofs on a lot more has been done since that point in time if this if you don't get this approval for this variance I mean why would you why would the build why would you continue on building until you got the variance what was what was the plan is it just assuming that you'll take care of it um you know that's a very good question let's call Mr Clark to the stand to answer it okay we'll get to him I promise I promise you'll get your answer not not now but okay uh are there any other questions from the board to the attorney at for what he stated up to this point Don I I think this might apply so are you testifying that um the drywell I just want to point out the attorney is not testify I'm sorry so you stating are you stating that the dryw the driveway proposed patio and uh the blocks to the patio um those are on the original plans the driveway in the original plan that the city approved M the driveway was there but it was not in the same location where was it it was in the same general area but tucked over closer to the glass bands away uh to stay out of the steep slope uh area likewise the patio wasn't included at that point and it was all trimmed so was the dryw still included in that no the dryw have I don't believe again Andrew Clark's here yeah I'm I'm sorry I wasn't I see what I see in front of me I didn't see the previous plans so it just it's just striking me funny that um you know we we rely on professionals to design our homes and we kind of know the ordinances that are in town and to um move forward with this knowing that we're disturbing such a large percentage of the steep slope and then to continue moving forward with that without the proper Guidance just kind of baffles me well it's it's something where in terms of the amount of steep slope while that is 3,800 out of the 4,000 uh the total amount of SE Flo is certainly not anything compared to what this board has dealt with on any number of other applications where they were in the thousands and tens thousands so significant amount of seep float this uh when you look at the steep slopes that are here they're really in a perimeter we're not looking at something where uh we're dealing with a slope that you're going to be putting up the 10ft walls that this board has seen uh 10t back in and then another 10 so we but we handle each case individually and we don't rely on other ones to decide this one so let's stay with that very good any other questions on his opening to this point because his opening is going to continue I believe um am I correct I'm ready to call Mr Clark okay so then I I am going to only because I've seen a lot of hands up uh if anyone has a question for the attorney now would be the time to come forward and ask that question question and questions only uh you can come up to that that that microphone there thank thank you Lisa glass band 42 Fernwood Road my property is adjacent to uh the applicant 29 Ridge Mr Weber I just wanted to make sure that I understood your testimony um previously is it correct that Mr Clark is going to be addressing the Four Points in the notice of violation during this hearing the Four Points of uh set forth in the notice violation have already been addressed and we have the uh board's own expert saying that they've been satisfied and we have the person who signed the notice of violation Aon Sher confirming that okay but we'll be able to examine um the witness on those four points you'll present evidence that all four points were met that's the reason why we're here today those four conditions were to be met as a prerequisite to this hearing so I just want to make sure that you're going not you're going to procedurally offer that evidence is all that's been offered and has been confirmed by the board's own planning expert okay well we l well there probably won't be any testimony to that if I'm correct because we have received certification from Mr shreer that it's been done so we we have to proceed I believe if I'm not incorrect uh that uh indeed the uh the matter is you know we has been has been done it's already been addressed and confirmed by the city so there there's there there's no need for additional testimony on that because we have it from our our experts that it has been done okay thank you any other questions for the attorney seeing none I would ask that Andrew Clark be called to the stand to uh be sworn in to give testimony in this matter where are you comfortable Mr Clark do you who affirm the testimony you're about to give in this matter is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do please state your name spell your last name Andrew Clark CL R ke thank you I know we've accepted you on a number of occasions including recently as an expert engineer I am going to just ask because there are interested parties that you do review background and experience for the board as well certainly I hold a bachelor's degree in civil engineering uh as well as a bachelor's degree in Lan surveying I obtain licensing lure in both my license is currently in good standing I have testified before numerous boards uh this board as you indicated um with some frequency um the chattan burough planning and zoning boards Madison planning and zoning boards Floren Park um zoning board are the most recent other towns where I've uh testified as an engineer and just to confirm you said licensed I assume you mean in the state of New Jersey correct correct correct any questions from the board would you like to accept them once again I think we will accept your credentials as and welcome back thank you thank you just a couple questions Mr Clark sure are you familiar with the development regulations ordinance of the city of s I am and are you familiar particularly with the steep slope ordinance within the Dr I am and you're familiar with the city itself yes and this site yes and how did you achieve that familiarity with the site uh I have been involved in the project um from the beginning of the project I conducted a survey of the property um I prepared the engineering plans that were submitted uh for both permitting and for this variance application very good and would you be so kind as to share with the board the plan for engineering that is up on the easel and on the video see if it works we're hoping we're hoping they replace the battery one of these years I'm going to have to bring my own battery so I have on the board here um to just describe first the existing conditions as per the survey that was conducted I think what's on the screen there is the actual uh grading plan but this this is the survey itself just to describe what the existing conditions were at the beginning of all this I conducted the survey in December of 2023 December 14th and at the time of the survey uh you have Ridge Road on the bottom of the page Fernwood to the right or to the east um there is an existing dwelling that existed with a a deck above a patio just behind the house some walk connecting walkways on the left and the driveway for this site uh was to the front facing Garage on Ridge Road on the left or Westerly side of the lot as was described generally there there are a couple of sections of steep slopes that existed on the property and largely still do um and how are they designated so your ordinance designates anything over 15% slope which in uh layman's terms mean if you go about 6 and 1/2 ft and go up one foot that's 15% um so as defined within the ordinance of slopes greater than 15% are shown and hatched on this survey there's a small section to the left of what was the existing driveway and then on the other side of the driveway along the front and then there's a break in that where the walkway came up to the house and then again picking up on the Fernwood side there's a section of steep slope right along the front edge all the way down and there's a little finger of steep slopes that's kind of just barely steep slopes that reached to the U Portico entrance of the existing house and then the final section sweeps around the back of the house as Mr Weber indicated it's reasonable to surmise that that was um you know fill from the excavation of the original basement in the house what's the survey so my survey is dated April 9th 2024 that's the date that I issued the survey but the note indicates that the field work was done on December 14th 2023 so all of these areas total are approximately 4,000 square ft of slopes it leaves a substantial area behind at the toe of the slope to the north uh where it's actually rather flat in here and most of the areas directly around the dwelling are um not steep slope areas so that was the existing condition um the X's that you see on here are are just indicating on the survey some of the trees that would be removed um and what was if I can uh what's the change in elevation from the Panhandle to the Northwest to the lowest portion so the area of the Northwest that that uh Mr Weber is referring to is the panh handle up here is at about 105 Contour 105 elevation 105 and then the lowest area is is right in this area it's about 99 the 99 area is is all over in here and it's pretty flat um and out front we have higher grades so you know the street out front is 107 108 and up by the house the existing house was uh about 112 almost 113 and then in the middle it's actually higher um so it's like almost 114 13.8 um in this area in the middle of the front yard it's a little bit unusual to have that sort of area that's raised up in front of the house what's the percentage of disturbance at this stage when you so when I did the survey can can we let him complete his testimony then we'll ask questions at the end yeah when I did the survey uh the site was not Disturbed in December so in December of 2023 there was the the construction had not begun I'm going to go over the timeline in a second I'll give you the timeline in just a second so the initial effort was to get demol I permitting which we needed some survey mapping and basic mapping for and the initial tree removal permit to remove some of the trees that at the time the ordinance um designated anything over 16 in as requiring a perp and so that was the initial survey was moving towards that and of course a plan um to get permits the next plan I have here is a lock grading plan dated February it it was dated November 6 2023 and last revised February 2nd 2024 this is the permit plan that was submitted for for permit and also to initiate the demolition process so that is dated February 2nd the demolition permit was applied for and the demo work well the demo work some of the demo I misspoke about the the date some of the demo work had begun just about the same time I was doing the fieldwork for the survey so at that time what they were doing was pulling down interior walls because they kept a lot of the the foundation was maintained probably 80% of the foundation the existing Foundation was maintained it was basement yes I'm sorry I didn't hear the question he said there was a basement there was a basement okay yes there was a basement um so so at the time that I did the survey they had begun some of the demolition just the early stages of some of the demolition to remove windows and the roof framing and so forth okay I'm not going to ask the obvious question without a permit you did demolition no no no they had the demolition permit by then so the demo permit was uh issued on November 29th and then by the end of the first week second week of December when I did the survey they had just started doing actual work okay I'm I'm sorry to jump in here I don't we're all doing it no no um this is this is more procedural I there there's so many papers here I don't believe we have a copy of the February 2nd yeah surve you either and so you we just might want to mark that as an exhibit yeah it's obviously on file with the city under the permitting but um it may not have been submitted as part of the package for the application so if we could please mark that as A1 how about A2 since the uh presentation would be A1 yep thank should we mark his entire package as A2 so that he gives us the whole package in case there's something else in there very good sure so that would include the original survey you have that in a one as well it's all right so at the time coming back to your question at the time the survey was done they were just in the beginning stage of the demolition work nothing outside was going on other than you know trucks pulling up and you know some equipment so then the plan was developed for the permitting which is dated uh revised February 2nd and the tree removal permit initially the tree removal permit was issued on February 22nd so few weeks later and the tree work took place like the last week of February first week of March by March 8th I think the tree work was done so I'll just briefly explain this permit plan so the permit plan um there there there was there's an addition in the corner you know the it it's basically like a new house but we used about 80% of the foundation so um let's let's talk about it as though it's a new house so we have the the house going in we're changing the driveway arrangement to come off Fernwood instead of Ridge Road this is just a temporary driveway that's indicated here for soil erosion and over here on the northeast corner is where the driveway was planned to come in and access the garage under so it's lower in the back so this is a garage under the first floor in the backside the sil fence in order to maintain the um limits of disturbance for the steep slopes for the permit we had the silt fence wrap around and stay up slope of this section of the silt fence that's in the back and then come across and down because there were a couple of trees right here by where the end of the driveway was proposed that we had secured a permit to take out and then the silt fence came around here and when you say around here you're along the Northerly boundary out to out to Fernwood Road and then coming back to Ridge on the other side of the construction road we ran the sil fence on the bottom of the steep slopes and then cut easterly across the middle of the front yard and then wrapped around to the Portico area the intention was to maintain all these steep slopes in here as undisturbed so what happened that triggered the violation notice is there are a collection of trees that are right in here that were all when you say here you're I'm sorry just to the east side of the proposed uh renovation area on the Fernwood Road side there there were a collection of trees that were 6 8 in 10 in um in that area that wasn't steep slopes so the the tree contractors when they came in went through this area so this area this little finger that's just by the Portico area and then reaching towards Fernwood Road steep slopes that area was Disturbed so that was one of the exceedances that was one of the excesses above what our limitations were from the permit and that's about a little less than 300 sare ft in area and then over on the back side the north side of the dwelling and just past the end of the proposed driveway where those two larger trees were removed that's one of the areas where in the grinding they they they exceeded that Sil fence area by probably 100 or 150 square feet it wasn't much um so so this area right here and this area right here werein two areas of steep slopes that were Disturbed that were beyond what the limits that were set that's what triggered the violation notice um in in mid-march and so that that violation was issued there were the four conditions to restore any fencing limits to this plan to to this plan I did provide a little bit of stake out to make sure that was restored properly um the soil erosion measures to be um reverified and and reconstituted to the extent that any of them were damaged and then recertification from soil erosion based on that so all those things were done the fourth condition was to apply the VAR which we also did so that summarizes summarizes the notice of violation and what led to it and how that ended up happening so before I go further if there any questions they wanted to know where the house construction was at do you remember well I mean we we can't hear you so you got you're GNA have to speak ler I was just asking Andrew to you have to ask say something at that point you know it was still tail end of of demo work cuz demo started in um mid December so they got the demo work done I I don't remember the exact date I did do a stake out for the foundation that was that was for the addition area in the back I did a stake out for that to help D that construction so so I think they had that point had the foundation up and we working on framing starting to frame it up thank assuming that you had a building perm the one thing that I haven't heard is a building permit for the new house was issued when November 2023 well that you have to be operating under under a building permit yeah I don't know if the demo permit was issued at the same time as the build building permit they usually are done together I'm I'm based on the sdl portal which I can try to pull up real quick to show if you'd like uh I understand the demo permit and the building but there was a building permit that allowed you to build the building that is there now because there could be confusion saying okay you got a demo permit but then how do you put a building up there definitely was and and uh I double checked in my emails that you know what I what I usually get involved in is the engineering part of it so on February 7th on February 7th I got an email from engineering saying that the last revision dated February 2nd was approved for engineering so on on February 7th we had engineering approval for the plans now I don't follow the you know subcode part of it is closely but usually it's around the same timeline or just after that as when when all that work comes through in terms of the permitting so it definitely is all being done under permit questions questions on the process to that so far um yeah in in this plan how much of the steep slope was disturbed by the proposed driveway so there was some disturbance obviously and the total disturbance per this plan was just under 1,000 square ft cuz that's the the waiver threshold okay so we had 970 Square ft as being disturbed that's why there really wasn't any margin going a couple hundred square ft of additional disturbance that's what triggered the the notice of violation and then in this plan is the driveway the I I guess it's the apron of the driveway is that meet within requirement I mean you you got the engineering approv far but I think it's four or 5T it's definitely more 2T that that uh Summit requires otherwise it wouldn't have giving you the correct correct and then we just had a wall framing that that The Backs side of that driveway we're coming up a little bit with the driveway and the grades lower in there question on this side okay back to my question from before you know March 13th you get the um violation um at that point what you say we said we had a foundation I remember seeing the site and there really wasn't actually no must have been after that I saw the site um you got the violation continued building at that point knowing that there was a violation there if you kept if you redesign the house and put the driveway back where it was on rdge road would we even be here if you stopped we thought the whole process of the design the house yeah we would be there for a front facing garage but I'm talking about for the Sleep the steep slope we wouldn't be here oh so to continue building the house when you were in violation right now like you like you're pretty much pretty far down the house is pretty almost it looks almost done you know at least on the outside to sit there and say if we do not give you the variance for this steep slope what are you doing your driveway is already set and there there's a garage set there whereas if you stopped and waited till you got the variants and said okay wait a minute hold on if we didn't you know if we don't get the variant we we could put the driveway in the front of the house like just reades on the whole house I don't I don't I feel like you went beyond where you can go back at this point if we if we if you do not think this variance what are you what are you doing we're doing exactly what's on this plan which was approved and permanent but if you can't get the variance to for the steep slope what are you going to do you if the the board were to come to the conclusion that the merits of The Proposal do not warrant the variance then at that point there would have to be a reduction in the amount of steep slope disturbance and put back but the point that is presented to the board and this comes from Cohen versus Fair law you have the right to bring the application and not you're not prevented the board is not bound to Grant the variance you're not you have discretion you can sit there and say yeah we're you know we don't see it the proofs have not been met that burdens on us on the applicant to show those proofs our position is that what is being shown is a better design is consistent with the purposes of the steep slope ordinance remember steep slap ordinance is not designed to prohibit development it is to reasonably control development so it doesn't it doesn't say prohibit it says reasonably control and that's what your uh what your duty is here and looking at the ordinance does this reasonably control development does this prevent siltation is the result of this going to be reduction in erosion are we going to manage storm water and the answer to all that is yes and so by the time this is finished when you look at the purposes of your steep slope ordinance and sit right there in the first sentence it's to reasonably control not prohibit so it's not a lockdown because this is Summit uh if you were to stop development completely in steep slopes people wouldn't be able to do anything so in in in that regard you're in a situation what you're saying is that there is or could be an alternate to what's proposed here if indeed the board feels you're not meeting what it needs to be met I I suppose yet it could be done and I'm just again when I look at the steep slope area requirements 35 H and 16.1 the purpose of this article is to provide for reasonable control of development within the steep slope areas of the city reasonably controlled not prohibit but there can be more than one way to skin the cat there can be okay let's move on okay um math question you originally going to disturb just under 1,000 square fet okay so the the the tree removal fellow Disturbed 100 or so Square fet here and 300 there okay so that gets us about, 1400 Square ft of steep slope but you came in with 4,000 square ft Disturbed that's right that's the next stage okay yeah that has not been Disturbed okay so yeah no that's requesting so that's that's the next step okay we did the violation now we do the next is it it right CU once you hit the violation and were in front of this board probably ahead of what what we were planning to do um then now now we're looking at the whole picture Mr Clark before you continue just one question um I noticed on the plans that I see in front of me the storm water management post drywalls was that not required in that plan that you're showing it's not in in this plan uh we were actually reducing the the lock coverage by about a little over 300 Square ft so the summit ordinance indicates that anything where you exceed more more than 300 ft of new impervious coverage than storm water management I'm assuming that's going to lead us into why we're going to 4,000 ft now of the disturbance 3,800 if I can so now I'm going to turn to the plan that you do have in front of you which is the lot grading plan last rage June 21st 2024 so understanding that we were coming in front of this for the steep slope violation uh it it made sense at this juncture to uh move forward with the effort to look at the whole plan and take care of it all at the same time in terms of the application and hearing this this uh application for development so the difference between what I showed you and what is on this plan is that there's a little more welldeveloped Hardscape and landscape and we're redoing the grading in the backyard for a couple of reasons uh first uh there was there's been a couple of questions about the driveway we we slid the driveway a little farther away from uh Lot 24 to the north I said 8T is it 8T so it's now 8 ft away um the balance of the driveway is in essentially the same location it's just a the throat and the um where it touches down at Fernwood the access point was just shifted a little bit and a radius applied um versus the previous plan but the bulk of that driveway is in exactly the same place so what what we're doing with this plan now is instead of having this low area that's in the backyard which currently uh water settles in there quite a bit um we get water from that's not actually Lot 24 to the West it's uh 26 the the S lot um just to the West we get some runon that comes from that backyard onto our property I actually stopped there on the way here and you can see the path where it comes on and a little bit of siltation from that big event we had recently and when you say big event the big rain event that we had yeah almost doesn't need explanation but um so so we take on water from the neighboring property and it it sits in here it's sort of a flat blow spot so what we're proposing to do is where the walk out of the basement is underneath the deck we're then planning to uh introduce a patio and then have this area very gently graded so leveled off so we're filling in that area to accomplish that and then placing a wall as Mr Weber indicated 5T on our side of the line and recognizing that the main issue with steep slopes is erosion and runoff those are the main things that we want to guard against um what we're actually doing in this backyard here is completely eliminating all of the steep slopes which in my view is the best way to control steep slope impacts is to not have them um so what we're doing is gently grading and at the top of this wall on on the uphill side we're introducing an infiltration drain a linear drain that's you know river rock or stone down into a perforated pipe that will that will connect directly into the tank system that we're introducing in the driveway now so we're going to any any runoff that makes its way to that wall we're going to pick up we're also putting a wall on the Westerly side of that line and this wall is like 2 to 3 feet high over there and then on the downhill side on the back side of that wall we're going to put a drain where that water comes onto us so we're going to pick up that water that's coming onto us and put it into the drrive and manage it in here we're also introducing a drain at the end of the driveway to pick up the driveway and we're taking the back half of the house and the roof leaders from the back half into the drywell system so this is all leveled out drainage here drainage here drainage at the driveway and the two tank system to manage that drainage we have dug a a hole to inspect the soils I don't normally do that uh in advance of construction work but since we had Personnel on site and we had equipment there uh in in the area of that tank I did do a test Pit and the soils do look serviceable in terms of the perk rate so so I don't think we're facing a problematic situation in terms of their function the front half of the house what I'm proposing is to drain it uh run those roof leaders to Daylight at the curb line which on Ridge Road slopes down towards uh Summit AV uh I think that's appropriate in this case Summit does allow that um and in this case what we're capturing here is about 1,600 square ft of roof area when you say here as I indicated on the proposed dwelling the dwelling under construction the front half of that house is about 1600 ft of of roof area but what we've done from the existing condition is remove the, 1400t driveway and then the existing dwelling that was there had its water moving towards that same direction dire so in net we're reducing the runoff contribution to that road there was a comment indicating um from your from your engineer Mr Fay that um it might be worth considering to connect the entire roof to the drywall I'd prefer not to do that for a couple of reasons one is I think it's perfectly reasonable to do as I just described with the roof leaders in the front going to the roadway second is I don't like generally and we try to avoid taking water that ends up in one place and moving it to a place that it didn't previously go so the in the existing condition the water in the front of the house and the driveway move to Ridge Road I don't want to take and put it in the backyard where you know the Overflow and an inundation is out down Fernwood so we'd be rerouting that runoff to a place it didn't go before so for those two reasons I think it's appropriate to have the the discharge at the curve when you're talking about the the existing uh storm water flow out to Ridge Road what was the storm water management that was there on the site uh before this roof leaders to Daylight and you know driveway would just run off to the to the to the road now to put some numbers on it um what we're managing roof area and driveway is 3,200 square ft where where our proposal even though we're not reducing the coverage in this scenario we're also not increasing it tremendously we're at about 5700 ft of existing lock coverage we're going to 6,400 square ft so we're increasing about 700 sare ft of impervious area but what we're managing uh ostensibly is 3200 sare ft of roof area and and driveway and the calculations for that yield a required storage of about 800 cub feet I increased that by 60% to try to account for sort of an un somewhat unknown quantity of water coming from the neighboring property so you know that would be the equivalent of another 2,000 plus square feet of impervious area if you were to think of it that way so we're we're we're providing storage for about 5, 5500 Square ft of impervious surface um in the in the review memo there was some discussion or question about the uh the offsite and it's not a clearly known quantity um that's why I did you know the 60% increase as a what I think is a pretty strong um movement towards handling that I could do a little more evaluation to figure out how much roof area is because in this area back here there's a couple of roof leaders at the back of this wall there's a few pipes that come out I have to go when it was raining and take a look at that there's also a some pump discharge in that area so there's there's a makes it difficult to quantify it's a little different than saying you know we have our new roof that we're putting in and here's the area but nonetheless I I I feel that this a robust system that's designed to make a net Improvement and a substantial Improvement in this backyard if I can Mr Clark what was required though under the ordinance were you required to account for the the 3500 no well that's that's what I was indicating technically we're required to handle our increase in coverage which is about 700 Square ft of new imperious so when you were handling more than 5,000 and but that that's more than 60% well it's more than 60% over just the 3200 ft of roof area and driveway that that we're managing because I mean look we're in front of this board asking for permission and so my my ammo for these kinds of projects is to go above and beyond because that's what's warranted in this case I want to make a substantial Improvement I also want to make a practical uh design that's going to handle what what what happens in this backyard to make it better for this subject property and and any you know existing impacts that might happen to the neighborhood property by virtue of the pass through so that details the rear yard what we're doing and the front yard and along these frontages in the front as I said it sort of comes up and and it's higher and then comes down a little bit to the house what we're proposing to do is make a more normal arrangement for grading in the front yard that you know you have the front yard and it grades gently down to the street with new Landscaping established that of course eliminates this steep slope that wraps around and and along Ridge Road here and then the same thing along the Fernwood Road we have the steep slopes that comes in this little finger in here again we're introducing more normal grading in there and what we're also doing is putting a wall along there to um affect that change in the front we don't need that and here we do and part of the reason is that the steep slope continues down to the curb line on that side and so what we're also introducing by doing that is in my view a safer environment for pedestrians in there because I don't know if you've ever walked down Fernwood Road but people go a little bit faster than they should and coming up the bend there's really nowhere to go other than the curve line because the slope starts immediately behind the curve there so you're talking about walking in the street yeah you have to walk in the street right and and so what will result here is a landscape area that's that's following the grade of the road up to that wall and then you'll have the wall that's about 2 to 3 ft and then you're going to have you know the graded area to the house so we're eliminating the steep slopes here here and in the back which as I testified a minute ago in my view is the best way to control steep slope effects and if it's done well with proper storm water management and Landscaping I think it results in an overall uh marked improvement uh in this case probably a dramatic improvement over that existing condition of that existing dwelling when it was there because previously this this entire Frontage was very overgrown uh not not managed or kept at all to the point where there was even maybe some sight distance issues at the intersection which will be relieved by this uh proposed condition so I I think the end result will be a beautiful property that functions well and you just mentioned you have a good sight distance I think that was one of the questions either from the planner or the engineer for the board as to the corner yeah so so there's a stop control here on on Ridge Fernwood is through and so there's a stop sign right here so the the the most important thing relative to our intersection is the stop vehicle being able to see to the north up Fernwood it's it's this this will end up in a very good condition in that regard um partially because you have the curve coming so it's a little bit easier to get that site distance but we're going to clean up this entire intersection with uh uh controlled and managed Landscaping that will not impair the view the only thing will be in the way is the utility pole that's right on the corner I have a question about the go Mr Clark can you remind us uh is the imperious coverage and the steep slope uh disturbance thresholds are they a fixed number or are they a percentage of the lot what's permitted yes so with impervious coverage it's a percentage of a lot area okay for Steep SL disturbance for steep slopes disturbance there's a waiver that is permitted it's not guaranteed it's it depends on the conditions but you have to be below th Square ft of disturbance of the steep slopes for in terms of grading and things like that there's there are other waivers for steep slope disturbance that are not grading so if you were to put solar panels in you could you could affect up to 2500 square ft and certain basic Landscaping projects that don't change the grade at all maintenance and Landscaping you can disturb up to 2500 square feet but the th000 square ft holds true if your lot's 5,000 ft or 25,000 that's correct all right that's correct would it be your testimony then that maybe a 25,000 ft lot is being unnecessarily penalized because of its size which is not the typical size within Summit in part and also in part as uh Mr Weber alluded to the fact that when the house was built and they said well let's just grade this off here there was no steep slope ordinance and and so it's somewhat a burden of of the way things were done when the house was built thank you go question okay yeah all right before we go to anybody else let me let's go are are you complete now with your testimony Joe I think Paul had a question we were going to walk through Marie ra well I was going to go to her for her questions at this point so she can yeah I think Paul had a question yeah I have a question about um you said something about eliminating the the steep slope in the back of the the property um when I was there when you're you know looking out the garages as soon you know not maybe 25 30 ft out it it drops are you saying you're you're going to eliminate that drop in there behind how you going to you fill that with with a wall yes yes yeah putting putting a wall and along that boundary and but you're filling you're filling that in y okay Marie do you want to give us your take take your report and sure um and so I I recognize that you're probably going to go through some of this stuff as well is that right that was the uh proposal okay so how about I how about I start with some of the things that are um cropping up um could you talk a little bit more about that driveway drain I know that your intent is to collect all of the water runoff from the driveway but it's going into instead of like a driveway trench drain it's going into like a point source which I'm not sure how you're going to get all the driveway water into that yeah well what I have established for the grading is is is that it's it's pitched in a way that is pushing the water to the far curve line where that drain is um I mean we could make a different type of drain I have a thing about trench drains I I personally and professionally I don't think they're terribly effective in most settings um they're probably the least maintained drain that I ever see and most of the time they're full of silk and that are rendered unusable um I find that this type of drain is more functional it's not going to get 100% of the driveway so there's going to be a little bit where you know the the cross pitch isn't catching and directing at all at the very end the driveway into that drain but the intent is to have that pitch down so you have the garage and you're pitching towards that far curve line and then the water should flow along that curve line that's the intent I I mean I'm I'm amable to putting a trench strain in if there's a strong feeling that that would be a better solution in this case um I'm just considering that if you are um planning on collecting all the water from the driveway that the asphalt um has to be exactly pitched to get into that drain and I'm I'm concerned about that yeah it seems like a point a point collection instead of you know a linear collection where it might be sheep flowing down the entire withd of the driveway I I see what you're saying how you're going to you're going to try and put Pitch it towards um the back property the northern property the the um the edge of the driveway but I mean it's not a dramatic pitch there there either so no it doesn't have to be too traumatic I mean 2 to 4% is is a is a good cross pitch to have you know water flow but again I'm not I'm not I'm not married to the concept I guess I was coming at it from the idea that we're already uh substantially over over managing the water so if there's a little bit of 15 20% of that end of the driveway quite making it in due to construction not going perfectly um I I don't think that's a big impact I I think I'd rather see a a trench dra across the driveway that's fine um the um if I could I'm sorry to interrupt is uh what is a trench drain so a trench drain is it's a linear drain so you see them at driveways or or or drive entrances to commercial Lots sometimes where you know they're variable size you know 12 in to 16 in depending on how much water you're catching and then it would span the entire with of the driveway so that as as Mr indicated there's nothing that's really going to get by it except in a 4in storm it's like a gutter that's below ground than with a grill on with a gutter guard on top um could you talk about some of the um the inverts the how that water is going to actually drain from the the lower Inlet down at the end of the driveway to the to the sure drive while it's up the driveway so the so so the dryw in my detail I I calculated about 4 in or 4T of cover over top of it so they're going to be kind of deep you're going to have about 4T down to the top of the tank so that that puts the inverts of the of the incoming pipes from the inlet in the driveway and the inlet on the Westerly line so so the invert at the Western line is 99 so we're going to be probably 98 we're going to have to be at the inverse of the tank where it comes into the tank and 99.5 is the invert out at the inlet at the driveway so those really by sinking the tanks down that's how you're going to get those in okay and then in in a worst case overflow scenario the the drain at the end of the driveway would just be you know surcharged with water and and water would run down the driveway and down front in an extreme inundation okay and um one of one of the questions I had was about um the collection of the water from the backyard and some of the runoff from the neighboring properties it's coming onto your property and you're capturing it and um and you you've testified already that you've increased the size of this by 60% that's right to account for you know additional runoff from the backyard that you're putting into it um and I also see that you're you're collecting the back of the house into these dry Wells the front of the house is going to the street where it was before and I and I appreciate what you're saying about um not taking the water from the other part of the property and putting it all into the dry well so um you're you're kind of keeping some historical drainage a little bit of it not all of it um I you know I understand that as well um let's see I think that I think that may be all that I yeah I feel like I covered a lot of the other points you had your my testimony Mr chairman just two questions um as you had indicated during the whole sequence of events that there was a tree removal amount that was sort of identified initially in this new plan with this the add added grading and filling of the rear area are you increasing the number of correct okay those trees were the trees that are identified earlier as being compromised in some way yeah I mean I I think we have Landscaping testimony and design that probably better covers that I start to drift out of my my area well one of the points that is important to note if I can Mr snickas is that when you show in your plan a tree to remain there's other trees around that some Norway maple some other uh voluntary trees those would not be in effect uh to be uh remain those would be removed and as indicated uh to the extent that the board approves the application those replacement would include those smaller trees uh we do know that there's another Beach backed by the 24in tree that's being kept that has Beach Leaf Disease as well but that will have there are yes in in that northwesterly corner the Panhandle as you referred to there are a few other trees that are up in there I I didn't cover it as extensively in my survey as I should have because I felt like it was so far away from what we were doing that it wouldn't be altered and likewise along Ridge Road you show four trees but there's approximately if I'm not mistaken eight trees yeah that that may be right yeah I think what I'm showing on here there were two there are two trees that are still remaining that I understood originally to be part of the removal for the initial tree removal but they're still there going with that a little bit so we'll wait for the landscape architect to tell us what's going on here we could uh but I'm thinking that if you may if you approve the application and make the replacement subject to the new tree ordinance and that is subject to a tree permit then you will have the ability of their new ordinance to take care of this within the parameters of that ordinance so that the board doesn't have to be burdened with walking down well is it a 6 in is it a 5 in is it a Norway maple think we'll we'll burden Mr Linson exactly so and I think we can do that with your landscape architect and testimony so we are all on the same page very good Mr chairman any other questions in the board okay are there questions for from the public again question yes sir come on up and you have to use the microphone I'm going to I have a bunch so I'm going to probably need this here uh Todd Glass band 42 Fernwood Road um okay so I I think we've been mull to sleep a little bit here and and some of the dates and all that were um we're not questions please exactly what happened but we're going to get to that so hello Mr Clark um so I think you said December 23rd was the first time that you developed a survey for this property is that correct not quite uh that's a little too close to Christmas December 14th the day that I did the field work okay um and you did the field work you you drafted the site plan um and I just I mean this lot we didn't talk enough about this lot before and what it was um but the constraints of one ,000 Square ft disturbance of steep slope I just want to speak to that quickly and ask you was it I mean it was very convenient to come up with 970 ft of disturbance before and now you're here saying you want 4,000 and the front of the house looks great and looks better this way and blah blah blah 3800 sareet where's the question so the question is why why didn't you come up with this plan on the front end was it you or was it Mr mopus who who set the standard of we need to be below a th000 square ft not to trigger the variance well the city of summit has that criteria so so so it's not coincidence or accidental that that we're below the th000 sare fet when we're trying to get a permit okay it's very did you recommend that he get a variance on the front end of this uh I mean there was some discussion about it okay and and what was the reason to or not to I'm just well I've encountered on on a number of instances with projects in Summit that have steep slopes on the property that often times there's an impetus for getting work done and getting started on the house so many times and it's also been my experience that homeowners and even developers often don't think at length about the exterior of the house so those decisions are often deferred or even if they have a decision they change okay so I I from the record I see this property was purchased a year earlier in 2023 February of 2023 if that's correct it was rented for a year and question where's the question can we get we have to stay with questions absolutely only questions okay so um okay so let's move on from the the variance we we at that time you you weren't sure and you debated and now you came back and figured it was a good idea um of the excuse me hold not objection the witness answered and the paraphrasing by the questioner is inappropriate noted please please don't summarize this is your opportunity for questions you'll have an opportunity for comment at the end of the meeting and it will be announced so regarding impervious coverage on the site we talked about that and we talked about they're not and what is the question the question is did you or did Mr michopoulos come up with the plan to keep the the increase in in impervious coverage less than 300 Square ft who who who was responsible for that I mean it it it's very relevant in the fact that you guys submitted a plan there he had a question where is let him answer the question sure he looking I I don't recall exactly who who deter nobody nobody said oh let's make sure we're below we're less than 300 square feet nobody nobody indicated that and on the design process the house design was done it included the deck with the patio beneath it and the and the garage under and it worked out that that was by removing the driveway in the front it worked out that we reduced the coverage slightly okay so again you guys had over a year to work on the plan again not going to say it again or sir if you don't ask questions we'll terminate and you'll sit down okay questions so okay I'm going to move on from that um so you didn't recommend a storm water management plan um and given the where's the question sir okay I'm GNA keep going GNA keep no you're not please sit down okay I've got it I'm I'm sorry I'm not you're you're not answer you're not asking questions this is the last warning after this you will sit down understood um Mr Clark approximately how many steep slope variances have you been a part of before this zoning board question is IR relevance but goes to probably in the dozens but I have never bother to quantify okay were have you ever appeared for uh in front of the zoning board after the plans were approved to come back for a variant yes yes we were okay um I'll just skip so we don't keep going here um can you speak to the tree removal on the lot okay I know that okay that's a question yes can you speak to the Tre no okay uh because it's your plan no that's it you've answer the question okay can you speak to the effect of tree water REM of of trees removed on the property in relation to storm water Water Management sure when you lose some tree cover there is a direct path for rain to the ground um so there are a lot of statements and ideas that that greatly increases or it increases runoff and I'm not sure that I agree with that in in total but those things are always offset by planting vegetation which grows and becomes mature trees and storm water improvements which is what I do okay um I just want to know have you read the comments from the environmental commission and the shade tree Commission on all the canopy trees to be removed from this property I have read that okay and do you know approximately how many canopy trees there are being removed I I do not I have not done that inventory on not the landscape designer okay uh okay moving on um how many projects would you say you've worked with Mr michopoulos on over the years probably about six or eight okay and would you know him to follow the city of summit development rules and follow all the stipulations and conditions on the site plans you created I'm not sure what you mean by that meaning do you well we' sometimes gotten variances which you know not Varan the rules notations and contingencies on your plans has he followed those in the past as much as any other contractor that I've worked with okay um so on your site plan the first point under soil erosion and sediment control notes could you just read this m you want me to read my first all soil erosion control practices shall be installed prior to any major soil disturbances or in their proper sequence and maintain until permanent protection is okay um were you aware that Mr mopis did not in fact install a Sil fence before he began Direction it's not in the testimony it's it's not so much asking the question as it has to be based on the he's answered he's not aware you can move on he's may I provide evidence to the court for not at this point not at this point okay um okay now on to the disturbance of the Ste slopes um when were you made aware of the improper execution of your plan and the subsequent flooding that occurred on our property as a result of disturbing the steep slopes again objection it's not in the testimony not there there wasn't any mention of flooding on the property you can bring it up under your comments later you can give us testimony when you testify fine let's go back so now um regarding the violation you spoke to the violation right this is something that you did testify about the timeline of the violation and let me just get the violation here and the stipulations that were set forth by Mr shreer we've already addressed the city as confirmed we have and this is extremely relevant so the third Point says that you and you've testified that you were this sounds like testimony it sure does it's a question no it's I haven't heard a question okay can you provide um proof of the revised approval from the somerset Union Soil Conservation District we have the uh report of the board's planner indicating that Aaron trigger has found everything to be satisfactory and he was the person the city engineer director of Department of Community Services who had issued the notice of violation so and that's it that's done I don't have it with me but it was all generated in done and and that was done in in your Tes that you did it or or Aaron Trager did it because all right sir the city confirmed you you saw we read through the comment that condition has been met the board is not addressing that point the board accepts the city's review and determination that's been met so that point is not relevant and we're not going to be considering that any further Mr Clark are you familiar with um Matt delandro um the district manager in charge of the somerset Union Cil Conservation District I don't know that I've met him personally sir we're we don't care it's been confirmed by the city that it's done I'm just going to say because I spoke to him on Friday you can say that later give us all that in your testimony sir this is for question abouty not a question told 10 times okay okay okay I think it's I think you've you've had enough of I think it's time for us to move on okay sure thank you sir thank you anyone else from the public with questions seeing none before you go to your next witness I'm looking at 9:00 and an hour and a half in and I think we all need about 5 minutes we'll be back at 9:05 if you may very good Mr chairman e e e e e e e e e e e e e administrative item there never mind e e if not we e e e two cases on tonight uh the second case we've uh kind of looked around and looked at our fellow Mickey and uh there is uh the probability that we won't be able to complete it tonight so there was a we've offered the uh the applicant the opportunity to carry do we have a date yes November 19th is that an acceptable date it works for my entire team Mr chairman the one thing I will ask is I know that's the start of the league of municipalities convention I just want to make sure that we anticipate having a quorum we've got D relief on our case so we'd like to make sure we've got a fully constituted board to the extent possible right now I don't know if is anybody uh is anybody planning to go League I'm not uh it's the league of municipality of Atlantic City and zoning board members are allowed to go if you choose to just but I don't think anybody's doesn't S Mr chairman you make it worth my while I'll go no that's not uh how that's going to work I believe you'll you'll have a quarum for that night yeah I don't see any reason not to have a quum that that's perfect then Mr chairman I think you have a full seven M that's Tuesday Tuesday yes okay just wanted to make sure Tuesday yes it's a Tuesday night work is there a motion to carry that case without further notice you've noticed for the tonight right we did yeah moved second and you're granting the board the uh we'll Grant an extension through the usual absolutely call yes chairman Steiner yes Vice chairman lyit yes uh Mr Nelson yes Mr Karen yes from the back row yeah Mr Malay Miss to yes Miss Cho yes the motion carries for the record show that Mr Curran did rejoin us for this uh piece of business and is now again leaving us folks thank you have a good night we appreciate it we'll see you November take care everybody take care okay we are back on the record Mr Weber thank you Mr chairman I'd like to call Jared K to the stand to be sworn in to give testimony in this matter do you swear from the testimony you're about to give in this matters the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth please please state your name spell your last name Jared kest CEST is k s thank you and I know you've two have appeared before us before but once again there's members of the interested public if you could briefly describe your background and experience for the board yes I'm a licensed landscape architect in the state of New Jersey I've been practicing for 25 years uh as a landscape architect uh my office up until recently for the last 10 11 years is right here in Summit and the majority of our work has been done in the town of summit any questions from the board would you like to accept the credentials Please Mr Weber Mr K are you familiar with the application that's currently pending before the board yes I am and how did you achieve that familiarity I was hired by the client to develop a beautiful landscaping plan for his proposed beautiful residence uh not uncommon for landscape architect like myself uh our approach was to create the setting that most people we work for are looking for and that is a beautiful Lush uh mature landscape that responds to the way modern families live uh usable spaces privacy and so on and with regard to the uh regulatory ordinances of the city of summit are you familiar with those as as well I am yes and you've indicated that you have been requested to prepare a landscaping plan would you be so kind as to uh walk through that Landscaping plan for the board sure so we have an image up I'm sorry Mr cast do you mind just talking into the microphone a little bit more closely sorry pretty soft spoken okay well maybe we'll just touch on the rendering on the screen uh this is a you as taken from the corner of ridge in Fernwood that is still A1 right that's correct thank you and this is a two-scale 3D rendering uh photo realistic rendering uh just so that our client and anyone who's interested can get a really good idea of what the finished result of our landscape uh will be uh it's a very useful tool uh because sometimes when a new landscape is installed you know time for it to grow and mature and fill in is necessary and this is an accurate representation of something that would be planted at the time of planting tree size uh and so on so like I said this is as seen from Fernwood and uh Ridge you had prepared and you prepared this perspective didn't you Mr C yes I did and you prepared another perspective as well uh that way looking from Burwood uh Burwood itself and somewhat in front of the property the glass band property so can you describe what's shown here uh yes I can so uh as Andrew Clark had stated uh the driveway opening is 8 ft uh from the glass band's property and what that does is it allows us to get mature plant material to screen the driveway and this backside of the house so along the bottom of the retaining wall we have approximately 5 ft where we have 14 to 16t Arbor planned but also have another 14 14 to 16t Green Giant arber planted on top of the driveway so as you can see in the exhibit on the screen at time of planting this is a very densely screened area and as I mentioned earlier these models are to scale there is some artistic license because it is not real uh but this is as close as we can get it and knowing how important it is and the Tre are here and the privacy and so on you know we did our best to make this as accurate as possible so what you'll see along sorry well when you say 14 to 16 ft uh tall that's at time of planting that is correct yes and if I think of a basketball hoop that's at 10 ft and the top of a backboard around 13 ft so that give an accurate description or a uh analog to what is being proposed in terms of the types of trees that are being installed seems to make a good visual yes they're tall trees these are you know machine handled you know very mature they touch each other at the time of planting I think what we're showing here is very representative of what that would look like and you also proposed and I interrupt but go ahead yeah so along this entire edge of the property um existing there are Norway spruce and the bottoms of these Norway spruce have defoliated largely because of needle cast uh that has caused that and the thing about Norway spruce and other conifers like Norway spruce uh these needles don't grow back so while it is providing some good screening at the high level the bottom screening is becoming non-existent and will just get worse over time so our proposal is showing a combination of the 14 to 16t arbori but also to counteract the height that is being removed we're proposing four 5in calber red Maples so now these are deciduous trees meaning these trees drop their leaves but for a good nine months out of the year they do have their leaves and they're quite beautiful and what they do is they spread a very wide canopy and Crown so while we're screening at the lower levels between the 14 and 16t height we're also getting the upper height a 5-in tree is a very significant tree so we're talking about a tree that's probably 25 ft at the time of planting or close to it um and we have four of them pretty closely spaced the other thing that is significant about the red Maples is that these are trees that are commonly found in wet areas so what that means is their root system is better suited than some other trees to to pick up any excess storm water in that area as we move to the West uh per earlier testimony also along the northern property line were there 20 to 22t tall trees yes that's what I'm going to touch on right now so the highest point of the house which you'll see in the rendering on the screen right in front of that we have proposed 20 to 22t arbores now these are monsters right in the landscape industry that's how we refer to them because they require a crane they're extremely expensive and they do a great job the day they're planted um they're the the cost is exponential to say a 14 to 16t tree even though it's only four to six feet taller the cost is five times the cost for that tree because of the execution use of the crane multiple men safety and so on so the combination of a 20 20 to 22t Arbor with a 3 to 4T retaining wall is getting us to 26 ft of screening at the time of planting So currently we have Spruce that are taller than that but these are needle cast you know suffering from needle cast and have very poor screening at the bottom in my opinion as a landscape architect this will be a much better scenario for all parties involved and the location of those Norway sprs they're not on the property line are they no I don't know the exact measurement but they're a solid 10 ft within our subject property now I had interrupted uh do you have any other uh comments with regard to the northern lot line so to to summarize the northern lot line has a retaining wall running along it about 5T off the property line we also were mindful to screen this wall as well uh so the arbor are on the downhill side of that retaining wall and also on the uphill side of the retaining wall so the intent is to get the maximum height of the trees by having the retaining wall flattening the area but also hide the visual impact of the retaining wall on the downhill side that much being said the the retaining walls that are being uh constructed are going to be consistent with what was built over on dogood is that right that is my understanding so Natural Stone retaining walls you know a beautiful material most likely the same stone or very similar that is used on the residence would you like me to continue we're waiting for a Google street view of the Dogwood rain wall face so that the board can see exactly what it is that you're referring to here we go or not Jim I don't know why this one's it's not working now all right give me a second with regard to the uh Western Property Line uh I had represented to the board that the hemlocks uh along that line are going to be preserved could you confirm that yes that is the case and what is proposed along the western property line we are proposing osing 13 Green Giant arbores smaller 7 to 8 ft because similar to the Norway spruce on the North property line these have dropped their needles at the lower levels like hemlocks do uh so what we'll be achieving here is again a solid privacy screen at the high level and also the low level and we have 13 like I said and what else is augmented along there I see another row of uh trees te yeah it so layers in the landscape we find to be more appealing than just like green Walls so and use of different textures so using skip laurel in front of the arborite in front of the hemlock gives us a nice three layers of different Leaf texture you know seasonal interest plus the skip Laurels will provide some floral and scent uh that is appealing usually to most now there's up on the screen the street view come off again well we had a glimpse I hope to thank you Mr chairman there we go and that is a street view of the retaining wall facing uh that is established on the Dogwood uh property that was built by Mr michopoulos and your representation on his behalf is that that will be the facing on the retaining walls throughout the site very similar if not exact yeah thank you is that the Dogwood house where it hits Hobart place at the bend yes okay then up in the what I call the Panhandle U what's proposed there so it's a unique part of the yard right we've created this beautiful usable lawn in the backyard but this kind of odd portion of the yard we decided would be a great place as like a a little Escape Secret Garden uh type area so we're proposing 2 and 1 half to 3in caliper uh Cherokee princess flowering dogwoods so these are native disease resistant dogwoods and a you know a really appealing Arc uh extending some ground covers and Lawn up through there and there will be an existing um White Oak remaining in there and so it's basically a sheet garden and then as we go toward uh Ridge uh Road and we look at the plants that are proposed there it has been indicated that that's the area of steep slopes that's not going to be disturbed and you show a couple of new trees there you show an existing uh tree to remain and you show another existing tree to remain and as Mr uh as it was indicated previously the four trees that are there now will remain but these trees you have what is this uh so we have uh red Maples or Red Oaks I'm sorry QR is Red Oak those are also 4in caliper again 20 plus maybe 25 feet at the time of planting significant trees and then you have a asgm that's a Green Mountain sugar maple again very commonly used in town I've probably planted 200 these uh in the last 10 years in town beautiful orange fall color so the combination of the red oak with its vibrant you know red fall color with the orange behind it really would be spectacular in my opinion and you'll be able to move these trees to keep them out of the steep slope area that exists next to the construction Drive the one red oak that's close to the property line most likely would have to move you know to the east a couple of feet to do that but yes then you heard uh uh the discussion with regard to providing a sight distance at the intersection of bridge and Burwood uh and what type of plantings do you do you propose along that corner so right now we're just showing it as a deciduous shrub meaning a shrub that drops it leaves like a hydrangea or similar uh nothing tall uh at this point we usually just specify trees and then we'll have the I guess the flexibility to pick the shrub but for this conversation those are hydranges and then with regard to uh the western side of the retaining wall what plants are proposed there so this is a beautiful Bosque of yosino cherries uh yosino Cherry is a white flowering cherry sorry a beautiful BOS BOS sorry landscape speak um a row beautiful row of um Yoshino cherries which are white flowering cherry these are the indicator of spring right these are the trees uh that you know signal that winter is ending and the Beautiful white flowers you know make everyone happy uh so along the entire top of that wall uh we have what is the quantity there 12 of them and these are also pretty mature we did a similar project on the corner of Bedford and Woodland uh where these really create a beautiful spring display you've heard me represent to the board that if the board approves the application that the tree replacement will be subject to the newly adopted tree ordinance uh and that would be in addition to what you're proposing here uh do you find that acceptable yes I do I have nothing further Mr okay Marie you have anything I do not have anything at this time Ed chair just real quick questions in that North Westerly corner I think it was indicated earlier that would might be more trees safe in that far corner do you know of that is that the case that corner uh if it it just shows one tree to remain and so the position would be that the other trees would be removed okay in that area um also your landscape plan you show a double line that follows along the front of the property it's adjacent to the walk as well uh but it runs parallel to um Ridge Road is that a retain wall or is that just a graphic for another Edge we should probably follow the retaining walls in that engineering yeah those are not retaining walls that's just signifying the edge of the bed where transitions to lawn I see okay so those are not retaining walls is there retaining walls also by the patio area back as well there are not okay those are just lines y yeah those are also the edge of like a mulch bed to Grass y okay thank you no further questions I do have further questions Mr chairman following the board question to the board from the board I have a couple go ahead um on your Northern side how do you propose maintaining the bushes that are planted on the down down slope from the retaining wall given that based on your design you would have to walk on the neighbor's property um not necessarily um these are mountain Laurels and Arbor VY the arbor VY are just Arbor VY right pretty little to no maintenance other than you know maybe mulching the beds but even still after the first few years uh they're so full that there wouldn't even really be required there would be drip irrigation there to make sure that they live um but beyond that I don't see much if any maintenance would be required to do that thank you yeah and then earlier there was a testimony about sight lines uh particularly coming up Fernwood as you go into Ridge based on this I'm not seeing any um well how much area is there between the curb and your plantings for people to walk on the property that's approximately I don't have the a dimension there we have before the radius you have at least 10 feet of flat lawn okay before you get to the hydrangea and then the retain lawn thank you I have a question hi can you go back to the picture from the perspective of the house on Fernwood um and where the picture the um illustration you did showed the house up on the hill the proposed the applicant's house um when you were discussing the heights of the trees you had mentioned regarding the height of the home um do you know what um what number did you use what height did you have for the building height for that I think we need Andrew for that right right I'm I'm not up to speed on the height of the home the plans that have been submitted to the board uh show a height of 37.9 okay um for this this is between r25 r43 Zone The Building height Max is 35 so you're saying 30 it's 37.9 it's allowed to be the additional 3 ft if you have a certain roof pitch and that was included in your building permit correct yes okay um I'm going to take this one uh I'm looking at Mr linson's comments both from 725 5 and 829 talking about this particular plan um basically says that your plan doesn't address any of his comments what would your comment be on that and how can we get the two landscape folks together with regard to his PR comments I think those were the August comments if I'm not misten I'm looking at August 29 and he says to revised landscape plan of 624 and this is what he testified to is the landscape plan of 624 do not address his comments and his comments go on including uh information from the board Etc and I would like to hear the experts feeling towards Mr Linson and the um comments from the shade tree advisory committee uh which are negative well if I can now I'd like to hear from expert very good let's bring up the uh report I think this cord might be dying on us the I think so because both iPads it's taking a long time to if I could just read John linson's report to clarifye Short this is the dated John linon City Forester July 25th 2024 report right and there's also 1829 I'm sorry there also one on 829 829 report 24 yes I see sure thank you I hope you were given it copy if you can well we don't have access right now I I don't have that I have the other one if you want that is dated August 28th the old one was we have two prior report 725 sorry the 725 report I got Jay with the microphone it does note uh this is a comprehensive tree replacement plan which includes planting 31 deciduous trees and 57 Evergreens the replacement landscape plans provide screening to the adjacent properties and is appropriate for the site they're my only copy I'm assuming I'll get another copy from you if we if I need it later then he goes on to provide with the shade tree Advisory Board and there's a page of commentary there correct I know you haven't seen it either okay no i' I've seen the comments you have seen this one so the comments that are dated 8 2924 refer to what he had marked on the attached plan which I haven't seen either we have not seen that either we had asked today whether or not uh it was filed with DCS I didn't have it so uh makes it uh a little bit problematic but nonetheless it indicat that his comments uh were dated 725-24 which we just received recently and again a lot of this went on in July so for example the report from Lindsay Knight your uh board's planner that was in July so there was the uh summer that we were dealing with this and in this report the landscape and may I Mr chairman and I'm quoting the landscape plan as proposed with the exception of the preservation of One Tree in the northwest corner of the property this is basically a clear cut and do over the proposed grade changes make it impossible to preserve additional trees the applicant has provided a comprehensive tree replacement plan which includes planting 36 deciduous trees and 57 evergreen trees the replacement landscape plans provide screening to the adjacent properties and is appropriate for the site so if you could Mr K respond to that and then we can get back to the shade tree advisory uh report as well sure so as I customarily do uh every project where there's going to be tree removal I set up an appointment with Mr linsen and I meet him on the property and we walk the property and that's what we did on this property uh I brought the landscape plan with me and he basically echoed the comments that uh Mr Weber just said to the board um he also added a few other comments while I was there that didn't show up in the report but I I feel it important to add to this conversation is that you know he knew that we would do a good job and you know he trusted that this would be a better result in the end he also felt uncomfortable with those three towering trees so close to this big new beautiful home so that did not make its way into the report but I'm testifying that that was a conversation I had with the city Forester so that will add to when we get to the shade tree commission comments about the three trees in question um you know partly why these trees should be removed in the backyard and then he had indicated that there's only one tree remaining there actually a few more sure there there's several trees remaining and a majority of the trees that we are removing uh the beach specifically have Beach Leaf Disease now this is treatable but you know this has to be treated in perpetuity uh we met with an arborist on site and unless you're willing to invest uh annually to spray these trees or inject them uh they're unfortunately going to die uh and that's un unfortunately true for all beach trees just like the American elm suffered Dutch elm disease uh many years ago that's kind of the plight of the beach tree so we are not currently planting new beach trees we're planting the what we're calling the successive forest in Summit meaning you know we have 7500 year old trees in in town uh but they do not live forever either right this is a Suburban neighborhood it's not uh nature it's not the woods so to speak so when we plant a four or 5 in tree what we're in fact doing is creating the next 75 to 100e canopy which has to be done right so it is a tradeoff yes we love the big trees three in particular in the backyard here but the net gain is so much more substantial over the long term in our opinion um and also allowing the yard to be uh sculpted in a way that you know helps with storm water management and also creates a usable backyard for anyone that's going to live in this house we feel outweighs you know the negative of the removal of those three trees Mr Kess do you have a a summary or a memo uh that talks about the state of ill health for the trees marked for removal has there been any information like that summarized and shared with Mr Linson uh no at the time when I met with Mr and I was not even aware that these trees had the disease we recently met uh with a tree company out there certified Arborist I don't have a written report but I suppose we could have one um but he educated us and showed us the Le be a bad idea yeah showed us the nematodes in the leaf I mean every single one of those trees has beach leaf disease in the report it says the trees appear healthy but that's a visual report that's based on study the review of an arbor that kind of training sounds like our executive session but we're not ready for that sorry not yet not yet just just if we go into the comments from the shade tree you wanted to go into those separately if I can read a out top of the page 2v I 24 I 2245 comments continued the shade tree Advisory Board discussed this application and offers the following comments col the existing trees on the steep slopes are all reasonably healthy period the removal of these trees and the removal of the perimeter steep slopes is not essential to the develop M of the property period the board felt very strongly that all of the trees in the proposed rear lawn area and the northwest corner of the property should be preserved period presently this area acts as a water retention area for this property as well as the property to the West the removal of these trees is not essential to the development of the property period and that basically was in addition to the uh 724 report that he made earlier correct so we have it dated Mr K can you comment with regard to the observations of the shade tree advisory committee yes well kind of backing up to my previous comment um you know a quick visual inspection they may have seen healthy trees and when in fact they're not healthy right so that's just the way that is um but anyone who has seen this property uh would quickly recognize that this has been you know an unmaintained kind of wild mess for a while um it looks nothing like any of the beautiful homes in Summit and especially along the front of the property where these diseased beach trees are currently living uh regrading of that area is is essential to creating what I would describe as a normal landscape that is appropriate for a home like this we have artificial BMS like Mr Weber and uh Mr Clark stated were created most likely from the digging of the foundation of this home decades ago uh these are not natively uh occurring trees these were planted and unmaintained for decades so in our opinion what we're planting which is you know four Red Oaks of 4in caliber and two sugar Maples of 4in caliber along the front you know far surpasses anything that is out there currently uh and will also be you know healthy Nursery grade A stock material you know maintained and you know really setting the canopy forward for years to come especially on the street facing side you know in the rear yard we have a white a black and red oak we have a 26 in a 36 well 2 36 and 126 diameter trees uh these are healthy uh but like the report says you know it's a retention area uh that is not a positive thing on a residential backyard that means it's going to be wet all of the time right so what Andrew Clark's plan is proposing is to flatten that area and the unfortunate consequence is that we have three trees that will be removed to do that but the benefit of that will be one we'll get rid of the steep slopes in the backyard that are shedding you know onto the neighbor's property and also creating a wet area on my client's property uh and two The Replacements will create that successive kind of suburban Forest that I was speaking about earlier so that we're getting healthy new trees and we'll have the next 75 to 100 years instead of these three looming trees you know in between these two properties other questions Mr chairman I do Mr chairman yes um when you say leveling off the backyard maybe this isn't your area of expertise I should have maybe asked the other gentleman how much top soil are we putting in there are we putting 5 feet 6 feet set four feet no the I'm I'm able to answer it you know the the elevation of the patio I believe is approximately 104 MH uh the and the grade slowly rises from approximately 99 to 104 so four to 5T maximum at but only for like a small area and then anywhere from two to four feet of fill and that retaining wall along the north side basically is creating this flat plane which creates this flat backyard that won't be wet all the time any question did I get to you guys earlier either if you have questions I'm sorry a I'm sorry okay that's that's okay um is it oh God cross exam I hate I always hate is it possible because it's possible um is it realistic um if we've got two two to four feet of grade change and these three really big trees to build some kind of well around those trees so that they can continue to exist on site and you still Level the lawn without regard to whether it's a good backyard uh to answer directly no um any disturbance I have found over the years especially in Summit not even actually near the tree is ultimately stressing out the trees so by putting tree Wells and things about that you're you're artificially creating you know uh three more fee for water and nutrients to get through to get to the actual tree roots so in my expert opinion no there's there's not a way to do that okay anybody else from up here no okay at this point we will I wanted to follow up with the environmental Commission uh comments go ahead thank you Mr T did you have an opportunity to review the report of the environmental commission um now there were uh environmental commission reports in July which uh were did not have an objection and then we have the most current one which was authored by a different environmental commissioner which then raises these points so uh and this would be the environmental commission report that has a date September 6 U I'm looking at uh July 30th 2024 and this is where Laura menen Hall on behalf of the environmental commission I do not object to the requested variant so we should go to the current one so there was a uh a view that did not have an objection to now the current one what was the DAT of that that was July 30th 2024 August well that was August no this isn't it no the one by m chub so if we can find the one by Miss CH that's September 6th September and so miss CH is the one I wanted to talk to Mr K about here you go thank you have you had a chance to review the report of the environmental commission that is dated September 6 2024 with the author being Francy chub yes I have all right with regard to the the first paragraph let me just stop there uh the first few paragraphs runs through the history indicating that permits were received and then we go to the second page we turn the page over then we'll be going to her first observation unless there's any questions with regard to the history of the permitting and the tree removal well the main comment here is that trees larger than 12 in uh in diameter at breast height um you know the city ordinance was adopted June 24th and our plan was created prior to that so you know our client is you know willing to abide by the updated ordinance so as far as tree replacement number of shade trees removed uh and replaced with shade trees uh we are you know obviously willing to do that uh and then as far as trees removed 12 in um because typically it was 16 in prior to the new ordinance so anything 12 in we would also be replacing uh with a shade tree in kind and then this next paragraph down on page two indicates that there's well established healthy Evergreens but if your understanding from your conversations and inspection with the certified Arborist and this is what the vice chairman was also indicated that needs to be supplemented we're actually suffering from needle cast yes we just recently this past week uh reviewed them again and they are suffering from needle cast uh and we did meet with an arborist on that there was also a comment with regard to minimizing the size of the pav surfaces and using green infrastructure on behalf of the applicant are you willing to consider it as part of the Harding absolutely I think you know this is a pretty minimal backyard program to begin with it's a a reasonably sized patio for a dining table and a sitting area uh and that's all but as far as you know using dry set material is more pervious than wet set meaning mortar set material so that's that's one option we can certainly explore and then with regard to the final uh uh condition uh to being the submission of an accurate landscape plan and further consideration you've indicated on behalf of the applicant that you're willing to be subject to the newly adopted tree removal ordinance of the city of summit that is correct y I'm nothing further Mr chairman but I would like uh I could also have uh a thre minute uh interval because I want toh speak with Mr mopis with the comment that the vice chairman had with regard to the presentation of a report confirming the uh Beach Le disease and the uh needle cast uh yeah that's fine I just wonder whether or not you want to handle the HPC first HPC actually had no comment oh no it does the historic preservation yeah they said no archit they they have a they don't have any any there were a number of count I can't find the one I'm I was looking for in Berg right I remember but I think he said it was if you have no comment on it we'll just leave it at that yeah okay then we will take a three minute which means back at 10 there it is I I know it's in here I just haven't e e e e e e e e I would okay Mr Weber you're back thank you Mr chairman uh members of the board uh Vice chairman had uh asked a question about the uh submission of a report with regard Ard to the beach leaf disease and the needle cast and at this point uh I'm wondering whether or not the board would prefer to have that additional information uh have a more detailed Landscaping Plan before proceeding further on this application so that was my inquiry Mr chairman if you have any willingness to uh see if that's how the board is feeling I'm always willing to ask them I'm not sure I'm going to like what they have to say um anyone have a would like to comment on that I think that makes sense and I think giving it to Mr linsen for his review as well also makes sense I would because there is a uh a large number of public here tonight would it I'm going to ask our attorney would it be appropriate to allow the public to make any comments that they would like they certainly would have another opportunity at the end uh to make comments because some of them may not may have heard what they needed to hear tonight so I mean usually the procedure is we wait until the end of all the testimony so that the public hears the entire presentation including the most upto-date plans um though you have the discretion to uh consider things out of order and consider comments at this point at at least on what we've heard so far but that's uh the only issue is if we waste time discussing previous versions of plans when there's updated information coming we'll try to ask people to be very concise in what they ask or what they say and it's now we're not talking about asking questions we're talking about opinions now and they'll be sworn if indeed we do this um Mr chairman just before we move Mr Weber said that there you may maybe make a change to a plan if if after this certificate comes out or meeting with the Forester did I misunderstand what you were saying well so one of the points that's been raised is uh the number of trees for example uh Andrew Clark had included a 2 in and a two and A2 in tree as being removed well obviously they're not trees uh likewise I've been referring to the Panhandle well we know there's additional trees there and so we don't have that definitive solid count uh we were hoping to be able to say fine will go through the new uh process of the tree removal ordinance and that way there will will be that definitive count uh but in terms of hearing uh the vice Chairman's question about the beach leaf it just would provide an opportunity let's get everything in a in a row and let's get it nailed down I'll leave it up to you that's why you're the chairman thank you uh I think it makes sense to do it that way I'm just torn at making perhaps some people that uh you know another what are we looking at as a date uh about how long do you think you would need Mr Weber well the glass bands have uh certainly expressed their interest uh my time would be 30 minutes well that's what you said tonight yeah I know so I think 45 minutes would probably be appropriate plan an hour then we have still all right of it so we would have to plan for 90 minutes I think okay if we're planning that much then I would say December second wow does that work for you we can do an H I mean that's appropriate I think that's fair I think that that makes sense okay um my concern is that we just have the right information not only for the clent for the I unfortunately I think we're going to have to ask the public to wait for their comments until the end I just want everybody to have the right information so that everybody gets their say the correct say that's my that's my opinion I I have I have a concern yes because here we are I I know what date today is um what's goes on from now on we can't I've said this before and I know everyone doesn't agree with it but there was something stopped in March things kept going on what's to say that things aren't going to keep going on and then December comes and they're following uh the building permit that and are being monitored by the city uh nothing nothing relative to what they were stopped for can come up again it's over well I think your concern is you they have a building permit they have a bur build and permit but they was stopped because of disturbing stuff and at that point the whole entire plan could have been revised and said wait a minute you know maybe where the driveway was going to be is the reason why you had to remove the if I can jump in just keep in mind you know we're not the enforcing agency we're here to consider this application so if some Enforcement issue comes up it can be enforced by the city if it's outside the scope of what we're here considering tonight so that that's kind of the remedy that if they go that route but you know we're here to consider the application and because there may be changes Etc I think we're going to have to ask the public to come back and get their uh get their comments in at the end uh as they would on a normal application I don't want to give anybody an opportunity to say we didn't follow procedure which we should do so can I just ask a quick question so I would look for a motion at this point uh to uh carry this to December the 2nd Mr chairman I think without further notice I'll get to him in a second um and uh you're going to give us the time to act and all that's correct we extend the time we extend the time within which that be the motion I'll look for after Don says what Don said so real quick so tomorrow if the applicant decides I don't want to move forward with this I'm going to go back to the original plan where are we that's not going to happen I know but let's just just it does amuse me well that kind of here they'll they can always withdraw the application for and they can build what what the original plan was if you choose to that's just but I don't see that none of us see that happening but that is an option but that's not in front of the board I agree Okay I uh I'm looking for that motion I just outlined so moved second I didn't hear a second did you thank you okay chairman Steiner yes Vice chairman lit yes Mr Nelson yes Mr Malay no Miss toad yes Miss Chapo no Mr feskin yes the motion carries okay thank you uh please we still have some business to do so as you're leaving quietly please welcome back we have some resolutions no we don't extension extensions resolutions for EXT resolutions for extensions welcome back the first one being um Gilman LaVine which is uh 226 Hobart Avenue this is the second extension uh we received a an email and then uh a little letter and then additional emails from them explaining what their issues are which are which are they need some additional time um to finish revising the second phase of their application which was um reducing the scope of the application actually beyond what they were previously approved they do plan on having those revisions done in August and hopefully refined by October uh and then being able to submit for building permits in early 2025 okay is there a motion to pass there is a resolution wait so this is the so wait this is the second right second second okay then we've been this is we have been doing this right that we've been giving everybody we've been granting two years now instead of just a one year so this will be under the current Grant of two years this would be their if you look at it this way this would be their first request had we given them two years initially like we do currently so it' be two years total not three this will be 3 years total which would be a first extension of what we currently Grant which is two years we usually Grant oneyear extensions on top of that and the project is the approval is good for one year yes right and then we're granting two years on top of that good there meaning the the recent conversations that we've had is that the correct we're Grant one year approval and then we've been granting people two years at least at the last meeting did that what we're doing is now the first the first approval is now for two years right and then we have added a third year on occasion and this would be in essence this would be their year third year got it but they but they didn't get two years in the beginning they got one year then they got a second year and now this would be the third so can we just say this is it like yes we'll give you no you always have to consider fure always have to they can always come back and you can deny it at that point okay yeah and the fact that they're making it proposing to make it smaller than yes what we had initially planned I mean as opposed to just sitting on a plan that we had already approved yeah they're um they're actually getting U removing a room if I'm not mistaken that they had initially planned to do I yeah or not adding a room they had initially planned to add it is removing the scope of in addition remember there are good plans anyway so done phase one yes so moved second okay roll call please yes chairman Steiner yes Mr Nelson yes Mr Kieran yes Mr Malay yes Vice chairman lit yes Miss to yes Miss Cho yes Mr feskin yes Mr Chuli yes the motion carries okay and the next one is uh for 47 Hawthorne place and they are hoping to start this one in Spring of 2025 and they have engaged Rosen Kelly Conway to get the construction drawings going and this is a first request right is there a motion so moved second second okay roll call please yes chairman Steiner yes Mr Nelson yes Mr Kieran yes Mr M yes Vice chairman lit yes Miss tote yes Miss Cho yes Mr feskin yes Mr Chuli yes the motion carries uh we've been overworking Stephanie so there are no minutes for approval and we've overworked I guess we haven't gotten the resolution the transcript yet so you can't haven't been able to get everything done has been 30 days because of the break in um uh August m so our next meeting is October 7th motion to adjourn a quick quick question um if we have an indication that it's not going to be 30 minutes it's going to be two hours and someone else has a simpler application can we flip those just because out of respect for other applicants bringing Etc yeah that's that's always within the discretion of the chair to decide the order of the applications on any particular evening and I'll be honest with you I didn't expect 3 hours but the other one wouldn't have been shorter no I expect one to be long I knew that one had some issues either one of them was going to be an hour and a half some move second all those in favor come back on October 7th I didn't get a motion or a second so moved yes and a second second okay thank you all good night we made it by 10:15