##VIDEO ID:S87TrVRBDsA## e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e Qui e e e e e e good evening and welcome to this the October 7th 2024 meeting of the city of summit Zoning Board of adjustment my name is Joe Steiner and I chair the board please rise and join join us in the Pledge of Allegiance I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible liy and Justice thank you in accordance with New Jersey statute 10 colon 4-10 adequate notice of this meeting has been provided to newspaper of record and has been posted here in City Hall this meeting is a Judicial proceeding any questions or comments must be limited to the issues that are relevant to what the board May legally consider in reaching a decision and the chorum appropriate to a Judicial hearing must be maintained at all times for the benefit of the interested public this meeting is being live streamed to the city's YouTube page and also broadcast on Summit governmental Channel which is Comcast channel 34 and if you're on Verizon it's channel 30 a transcript of this meeting is also being taken using the video and audio so we need all speakers to use one of the microphones in the room please note that the fire exits are to my right to your left and at the back of the room where you entered the city does have an assisted listening system for the hearing impaired if anyone needs that system please obtain it here at the Das and return it thereafter Miss suio would you please call the role of the members sure chairman Steiner here Vice chairman lit here Mr Yuko here Mr Nelson here miss Don here Mr Kieran here Mr Malay is excused Miss to here miss Cho here Mr feskin here Mr Chuli here you have a quarum you may proceed thank you you're welcome Andy ball is the zoning board's attorney sitting next to me on my right he will advise the board members on matters of Law and is the key interface with the applicants attorney Mr ball does not vote on the applications Miss zulos whom you just met is a city employee and is the zoning board secretary she works with the applicants on preparing their applications planning our agendas and keeping our meeting minutes she also does not vote on the applications also present at the table uh to our right your left in front here are the experts who are hired annually by the board to provide input to the board tonight we have Carl O'Brien from ker Engineering also present is Tom Barons from Coler engineering Al um I'm sorry burges Associates I'll get it right skipped a line anyway and he's our Bo board planner these experts are seated there and they do not vote on those applications our board consist of seven regular members and up to four alternates all members can participate in the hearings but a maximum of only seven can vote most applications require a simple majority to be approved and before we enter executive session to vote on an application you will be advised how many votes are required each case begins with the applicant or their attorney giving us an overview of the application process to date and the variances that are required we then hear from any additional expert Witnesses the applicant may have to help explain the application and why the variances are needed board members can ask questions of the applicant their attorney and the expert Witnesses once the board members and the board professionals have completed their questioning the public will have an opportunity to ask questions questions this is not the time to tell us what you think about the case that opportunity will come out at the end of the hearing and please be careful as to how you phrase your questions they should not be preceded with a statement about the case but should be a direct question to the witnesses also before you ask your question please clearly state your name spell your last name and provide your address this is important so that our court reporter is able to keep keep a clear and accurate public record after all the witnesses have been heard members of the audience have their second opportunity to speak and at that time you may express your opinion positive or negative about the application then the public hearing will be closed and we enter what is called executive session and that's where the board members discuss the case and vote you'll be able to listen to our executive session but you will not normally be able to participate in that discussion the City Zoning officers have asked that we remind all applicants that you must carefully read the resolution that documents the zoning board's decision and pay particular attention to the conditions contained in the resolution for example if a landscaping plan is required you must obtain one and present it to John linsen uh who is the uh City's Forester if a grading plan is required then you have to have one prepared by a civil engineer and submit three copies along with the application fee to the city's engineering Division if you fail to satisfy all the conditions in a resolution that will simply delay approving your application and will cause extra work for the city's Zing staff the resolutions documenting our board's decision are normally available one month after we decide the case uh we have two cases this evening and we'll begin um we're going to suspend with the uh bringing you up to tell us how many witnesses we're going to take them in the order that they are uh on your agenda and uh we will begin with 23 Cromwell Parkway uh Maximillian and Carolyn lefran please you're representing yourself okay um if you could please raise your right hand I'll swear you in also that microphone works as well if you wanted the handheld it's up to you hey we made them do you swear from the testimony you're about to give in this matters the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth I do please state your name spell your last name maximilan lefron l e f r a n c thank you okay can you tell us a little bit about your application uh do you have any expert Witnesses I'm sorry it's not on you just have to switch it on I apologize I didn't want it to die well the the one on the podium works too does that work is that better both of them I don't see the green light on but uh the one on the one there is working I believe I help you with the handheld if you would you prefer the handheld no no either is fine I I'll just stand here yeah just move it a little close the yes thank all right perfect um so yeah happy to uh so as mentioned Max Leong I'm the resident and owner at 23 chrw Parkway block 1802 Lot 36 rzone and we're hoping to install a backup generator uh in our sidey yard because we're a corner lot we don't have a uh a backyard as as you would classically uh used to install a vup generator and so as a result we're asking for relief from the ordinance to deviate from the minimum of 10 ft uh from the plot limit um and uh so that's the location that was suggested Ed by our um our contractor um but unfortunately there's no way to fit it within the the 10t limitations so guess just to really put it in context I got the map where let's put it this way like this is the the side of the house like the idea would be to install it right here and as you can see there's just just not enough room to install it within the 10 ft but as you can see in the next the idea would be that it would fit nicely like right on the back we'll be able to put the shrubs to isolate it and so that it's not a nuisance for uh the neighborhood or for our neighbor direct neighbor um but however is the first uh drawing the first drawing that you gave us is that the one that we have okay and the second one we'll have to enter as uh A1 okay and unfortunately you get to leave it you'll have to give that to miss suio okay no problem at the end um and and we did explore alternative locations uh the the key issue with the alternative locations are either that they're right in front of the property so much harder to to Shrub and hide from the the neighborhood or right in the middle of play area for children uh which obviously we' like to avoid with that U happy to take any questions obviously have all the detail of the specs Etc any questions from our experts I'll reiterate a few points so I think what I heard is because it's a corter lot that presents a hardship as far as locating the unit um and that it's a better location than the Alternatives um question that I would just ask is from a super practical matter is if let's say the board approved the application and understanding that your position is that'll be well screened is just I don't know if there's a a distance requirement let's say between the house and the bush you know sort of a clearance so just again Building Code Compliance yeah you will comply with whatever is there but uh Mr Linson indicated it was very well screened I mean it's apparent from that uh there are two other units there uh they're both air conditioners correct correct okay uh there is a third item that's covered against the wall uh do we know what that is is that something that's just a storage that's a storage that's just a storage unit yeah yeah where we keep seats for the for the yard it's not a actual piece I just I saw it was covered I didn't know what it was yeah yeah it's just for for debris um so I would say that all three units will have to meet the that's exceptable as a condition there's the uh the two air conditioners as well as the U they're also within the 10 ft right so I'm sorry they're also within the 10 ft of the property line or less than 10t yeah they're like in a row yeah but they have a variance for those already two I don't know I didn't see the the reason we just to clarify that the generator is much it's much it's bigger and it's also it's harder to put it right against the the house an AC unit you can put it right against the house the uh the generator would need to be slightly off to respect I believe it's a 10 feet distance with any window so it'd be slightly off the house so that's what brings it closer to the plot limit did you install those air conditioning units they were there when you bought those correct yeah um so it it's in one of the um the the staff comments but is it your testimony that your house is 9 ft from the property line so that it is physically impossible to put a generator 10t from the property line um my my understanding is the generator itself would be within five feet so it's it's not that the proper the house itself that I would have to to to confirm back okay if that was in the zoning officer's um comments okay so that it was would be physically if if you put it 10t the property line would be inside your house it' be inside the house yeah okay yeah okay have you had any conversation about this with your next door neighbor I think it's seven Blair yes he recommended the contractor uh he's got one exactly on the other side of that that that tree line so so there there it it it is okay with them that this is I mean the fact that they're not here um suggests that they're not going to speak in opposition at least okay yeah less than formal but I've definitely had the direct conversation with them yes so so there's actually another issue I want to bring up and I discussed with Mr ball earlier the requirement in the code and in our ordinance and the uccc is that generator cannot be within five feet of windows and doors and this generator is much closer than five feet to W their windows in that side of the house so I think and I think that's a more serious problem than the 10- foot uh setback so I Andy I don't know if you want to address how with that I I thought I heard that you mentioned you were going to locate away from the windows but corre what is the the distance that you're proposing the generator from the closest window or door it'd be more the again the the generator installer uh that's what he was most focused on is the distance to the window so it will be located at least 5T from any window or door cuz I was by there this afternoon I can't imagine where that would be more than 5T from a window there basement windows there there were other windows above if if yeah like the B window is right here right sorry there's one on the side of the house though too on where where the hedges where the generator is going to come and and the generator would come right here and to your point we need to move the shrubs right to bring it a little closer to respect the distance with the window above are there are there windows on the the back side of the house there are there are but they're they're further away so I I guess I'll take you for it I'm looking at at a picture I took today and there's a window there's a basement window maybe that's 5T there's another window above it which is closer to the which I didn't have a yard toti with me I didn't measure it but I my thinking was it's probably closer than 5T but I I may be wrong yeah and I'm happy to put it in the specification that it must be with it because that is that we spent that's how we Sol for the location that's why we're we're asking for the just be aware that you won't get a building permit even if we were to Grant a variance for the location tonight as a matter of building code requirements you won't get a permit if it's located any closer so you have to meet that totally understand um I was also wondering about uh you know fire hazard and you know how I don't know if it says in here how far does that unit have to be from do you have some pretty um you know established Arbor VY in the back there that's it's a really narrow plot that you're putting it in I mean I was able to walk past it but it's probably going to be like three feet from the trees is that also like it may not it may be fine with the fire code relative to the house but what about the unit itself that you're putting in we we discuss that briefly with the the contractor their their their um their argument is um that there's no real ignition unless it's inside so it's all of it is happening inside so unless there's like some massive blow up of the unit which would happen with any like generator you know natural gas um any like the distance doesn't really impact at that point and then um is this going to be put on a generator pad or is it just being put like on the ground so um I think that just to be clear you need to have what your pad size is on this we don't have that so for your like your building area the generator pad would count in that I think um or it counts in some of the the calculations anyway just from a future zoning perspective that if you are putting in impervious cover um it's not captured on this what you put in here so I think those numbers would have to be um you know you'd have to show that there's some impervious cover just so that next time if there something else somebody says oh well you already had 15 feet so you're whatever it is 300 square feet di Minimus right then you're only up for 285 if you come in for variance for an addition or something like that without requiring storm water management um right there's no I just don't see that the same with be probably going to be four to five s well but the same with the um the air conditioning units that are not on the survey right so those are all I'm just saying that all that should be cor it should be correctly reflected in terms of what the square footage is for that it sounds like a small amount but you know three things so I'm sure your surveyor can update your drawing with yeah yeah that drawing was done in what fo a while ago correct surprised that the the air conditioners aren't on there this was done in 2022 so normally those would be on there just the Curiosity on on the survey where you have the proposed location it sounds like T going to be pushed a little bit farther out towards the yeah I mean again I didn't see the actual but when we were window yeah it might be slightly off to respect the the window rule for sure yes Carl did you have anything engineering we're fine it's less than 300 Square ft storm water isn't required for this so okay uh engineering side thank you any other board member comments questions any questions from the public seeing none uh at this point then we'll go to any comments from the public anybody want to tell us what they think about this see none uh is there anything you'd like to say in conclusion no thank you for for for thank you for being here and and handling it best okay thank you uh before we go into executive session do we have any conditions and how many votes all right so it's four votes to approve because it's only two variants that we're talking about um there's no engineering memo so we don't have our usual uh compliance with conditions in board Engineers memorandum the one thing that we discussed was potentially updating those in prvious coverage figures and would the board like to see updated prvious coverage figures being submitted to the zoning officer for review and approval would it be sufficient to get them in time for for the um resolution and have them in the resolution normally how would we I mean I just don't know what normaler to enforce okay okay if if with the zoning officers the easier enforcement then so is that acceptable just you'll ensure that those any additional impervious coverage as a result of the generator and the air conditioning units that you have on the property you'll just confirm th those figures with the zoning officer so that the city has an accurate record okay no problem that's all I got okay uh who would like to kick it off nobody okay go ahead um I can certainly support this application I think with the existing hardship the fact that the hbj units were there with when you purchase the property um the screening is more than adequate and even the neighboring the neighbor on that side the home isn't close to the property line have a couple hbac unit I think on on that side as well so yeah I think my concern would have been that uh the generators can be a little loud like my neighbor has one and it you know goes off and tests every week however your neighbor has the exact same generator that you're putting in on the like opposite side of their house so I guess that sort of will balance um out uh so it seems like it's less of a concern there since they're doing the same thing and I too can support this I mean we testimony has established that it is physically impossible to to meet the the distance re requirements on that side of the house and any other location would be visible from Cromwell Parkway which is a slightly more major road than is that Dorset or Blair um so so this in fact benefits the neighborhood by not being visible um okay anyone else well I think what we have here is I don't I don't see any negatives to this I mean that's one of the things we have to look at is one of the negatives and I don't see this uh affecting the neighborhood in any uh negative way at all uh I see it as a positive for the family that's there that uh won't be uh without uh whatever it is that they may need during uh what unfortunately are becoming more and more power outages than we would like uh so uh I uh based Bas upon everything I've heard so far I would entertain a motion to approve sove second may we have a roll call sure uh is Jay voting can he oh you know what no yeah he's not let's get let's get a new oh I'm sorry I did not I'll second well we need a new motion J made the motion right okay so we okay somebody has to make the motion okay okay then I'll still second yeah uh Vice chairman lyit yes Mr Yuko yes Mr Nelson yes Miss John yes Mr Kieran yes Miss toad yes chairman Steiner yes the motion carries okay thank you thank you the resolution should be on our within a month okay we are going to go to uh the um Beacon Hill Club and I believe there are a number of people that are recusing themselves Scott's going Tom Yuko is going are you leaving us to yes okay oh boy so we are left with uh six two one two three four five six okay we have a full board for you so I just wanted to make sure we did with everybody who recused themselves um we will turn it over to the attorney uh are did anybody have to read transcripts for that's left here in these seven no okay okay I just want to make sure that we have everybody signed on properly and uh I will turn it over to Beacon Hill's attorney all right um good evening Hillary OLS from Dempsey Dempsey and Shen representing the applicant Beacon Hill Club located at 250 Hobart Avenue block 2203 lot one in the r43 zone um I just wanted to do a quick recap of the application um the applicant seeks approval for improvements to their lower campus specifically to update modernized repair and improve the carriage house uh which had some minor updates in the 9s Pet's house which is a pre-existing non-conforming accessory structure and to reconfigure the upper and lower parking areas which will result in additional off street parking spaces on site ADA compliance spaces um an electrical vehicle charging station um as well as improved site circulation Beacon Hill Club is requesting preliminary and final major site plan and conditional use approval and variances for lot coverage um for an additional 0.65% so less than 1% disturbance of steep slopes for 2.12% of the steep slopes on site off street parking spaces for nine spaces rather than the 18 required and for an increase of the pre-existing non-conformities at Pat's house to expand the Second Story with an increase in height of 8 1/2 ft for approximately 75% of the building and for an additional 55 ft of ground floor area at the last hearing the board heard from Beacon Hill club's president and tonight the presentation will continue with the engineer Bill Scott the architect Brian Cooney traffic engineer um Craig peroy landscape architect Benjamin heler and we'll wrap up with the planner Paul Phillips so if the board agrees I'd like to call the first witness any questions for the attorney seeing none please proceed all right um so I'd like to call Bill [Music] Scott all right if you can please raise your right hand do you swear from the testimony you're about to give this matters the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth yes I do please state your name spell your last name William Scott SC T thank you and can you briefly describe your background and experience for the board uh I'm a licensed civil engineer and a partner uh at at enser plan we're an engineering firm in Bedminster New Jersey uh I obtained a Bachelor of Science degree from Clarkson University School of Engineering um I obtained my Professional Engineers license in New Jersey in 2004 I've had that license in good standing since then um I've presented um multif Family single family um subdivisions and Commercial uh presentations before the zoning and um planning boards of summit in the past and I appeared before several dozen uh other boards in central New Jersey in the past 20 years and including our own relatively recently as well y does the board have any questions or would you like to accept them once again no questions please go ahead and proceed thank you okay um can you explain the steps you've taken to prepare to give expert testimony in this matter uh well I visited the site probably 12 times over the past year so I'm very familiar with the property uh I did stop in there earlier today also to refresh my memory uh our firm prepared the updated survey which is the basis plan for the site plan that I prepared um I reviewed the architect's initial proposal for the site improvements um I pulled out the prior approval for which that was the site engineer and reviewed the um documentation for that uh I attended a number of meetings um with the uh club membership uh as well is with some of the uh neighbors of the of the site and I also reviewed the ordinances uh and the city professional review memos perfect and recognizing that the site is fully developed with existing buildings parking and other improvements did you prepare civil engineering plans in accordance with the requirements of applicable city ordinances in the municipal land use law yes I did okay uh using sheet three of the plans that you prepared and that were filed with the board can you describe Des the existing conditions of the site sure so she3 is our existing conditions and uh existing parking map and I'm going to go through the site as if you were driving into the site uh first I'll explain the property itself is 9.77 Acres um it's bordered on the North the South and the east by roadways uh we have Brantwood drive to the north we have um the Route 24 access road to the East and Hobart Avenue to the South uh to the West the site borders lot uh 23 and 11 and those are Residential Properties in the R15 and r43 zones um the site has an access off of Hobart Avenue uh that's at the bottom or the south of the property as you look at our map uh this is an entrance only uh off of Hobart and it brings you into the parking area in front of of the manor house uh to the left or to the West uh you'll have tennis courts uh it's the main parking area um for people that are entering the main entrance to the manor house which is just above those two curbed islands that you see in in the center of the parking lot um that area of the site is is um demarked as the upper campus uh if you follow through the parking area you'll see there's aop driveway which goes around uh the east side of the manor house behind the manor house uh you'll pass another uh entrance and exit off of the uh Route 24 access ramp um that's in and out exit entrance as you continue into the site you're going to pass a parking area to the north which ab buts the paddle tennis courts and the paddle tennis building and to the South there's a smaller parking area um which is used generally by the employees of the site and the driveway continues uh down towards the um Carriage House which is the main building of that area of the site which is called the lower campus uh there's also uh the hockey rink the pool area um and there's a one-story building um a the mid midpoint of the hockey rank uh which is known as Pat's house it's a warming building and a a viewing building for uh hockey or ice activities okay uh referring to the remaining plan sheets can you describe for the board what is proposed from a civil engineering perspective sure if we can go to sheet five um this is the sheet that's showing the proposed improvements to the site and I'll just take you quickly through the site in the same manner uh so you see we have the entrance off of Hobart that's unchanged a louder I'm sorry sure I will try uh we have the entrance off of Hobart into the parking area of the manor house uh you'll remember that we had two curbed islands in the parking area there what we're proposing to do is expand the parking into those curbed Islands uh we're also proposing proposing to relocate the two non-conforming Ada spaces to create um code compliant uh Ada spaces with proper ass signage striping and uh slopes going into the building um another minor Improvement in this area is just off the corner of the manor house uh we're proposing to put in a small um backup generator or residential size uh backup generator we're proposing a 42in screening fence around that on our plans and when you hear from the landscape architect you'll note that there will be additional planting screenings in that area as well uh to the rear of the manor house as you continue along the driveway to the back there was the employee parking area there's an existing refuse and recycling area which is uh fenced uh we are proposing to add a screen gate to fully enclose that area um it's my understanding that the dumpster is emptied three times a week and recycling is picked up once a week there and then as we enter the lower campus into the down the main driveway towards the carriage house we're proposing to reconstruct the entire existing parking area uh we're adding new properly striped spaces uh properly designed Ada spaces signage and a turnaround area uh and drop off area it's also proposed to add one EV charging space uh along with proper striping for the um gate off of brandwood and then the Carriage House itself is proposed to be improved in several locations you'll hear from the architect but very briefly uh there's an addition proposed to the front entrance there's an expansion proposed for the maintenance and storage area on the ground floor level there's a pool roof deck which will be added and a patio created below there's an expansion of the existing kitchen and there's a very small proposed expansion of the kitty pool just to add a little more width to the um concrete surface around the pool uh and then as I mentioned earlier there's a small building by the hockey Ranch Pat's house uh this building is currently a pre-existing non-conforming structure as far as the height and the number of stories to this building uh a minor variance is required because we are proposing to add 55 Square ft to the floor area of this building uh essentially you'll hear from the architect but it's essentially a reconfiguration of the windows um it's also proposed to add an enclosed space on the existing rooftop deck and a viewing area on the rooftop deck and since we're expanding uh this previously non- conforming building there would be a variance required for the stories uh and height as well um The Patio around Pat's house would be slightly reconfigured just um so the new Landings and staircases will match in and a slight reconfiguration of the fencing in an area uh just to the west of the carriage house we're proposing to add an enclosure um this will be composed of solid masonry walls on three uh sides and a wooden fenced gate at the access point and this enclosure would be for the uh new uh upgraded uh Chiller equipment uh generator and one other thing condenser I'm sorry uh so this equipment will be completely visually screened it'll be within uh the walled enclosure um the equipment itself will be an upgrade it'll be quieter it'll be more uh environmentally friendly than what is existing today uh to the west of the enclosure we're proposing a pedestrian sidewalk and a staircase uh it's also proposed to control the access from the new drop off area up to the pool area and to the hockey areas and then paralleling this sidewalk is a path which is proposed to uh provide access for maintenance vehicles uh this is not a roadway for full-size Vehicles it's a path that's intended for vehicles on the scale of a golf cart that they use to just for the maintenance people to get around the site so overall the parking and circulation throughout the site should be improved uh both for vehicles and for pedestrians on the upper campus new parking is proposed proper striping uh crosswalks are proposed new ADA Compliant spaces are proposed to allow safe and convenient access to the building uh at the middle parking area behind the manor house there are existing parking areas which are on striped those are used by employees uh there's three existing parallel spaces on the roadway itself uh which are unstriped um we're not proposing any improvements or changes to these site or these features as they tend to work well and are seldom used um can I just interrupt you quickly can you show the location of the tire stops oh I'm sorry upper parking area so there's you're going to have to use a microphone take the take the the handheld I'll try so uh we have a these three spaces at the upper parking lot they but is deep slope so we're proposing at the recommendation of of the planner to add uh pre-cast uh wheel stops to those spaces and you agree to provide a detail of those right yes thanks so again the main parking area of the carriage house will be reconfigured um we're widening the aisle width to provide proper backup spaces for the vehicles um we're providing proper striping for the spaces we're providing proper emergency access striping to the gate off of brandwood again code compliant uh Ada spaces um uh the Ada spaces will uh allow access to the sidewalk to the building the sidewalk is properly sloped for wheelchair access uh once in the building there's wheelchair access to a um elevator which will take people to the second floor if they desire uh we're proposing a turnaround area for passenger vehicles and this will eliminate the current confusion of uh trying to exit the site as people are uh making K turns and and backing out and awkward uh Maneuvers to try to figure out their exit path through that site uh pedestrian access from the parking area to the hockey rink and the pool are better controlled by sidewalks and painted crosswalks um I wanted to point out on our plan we are uh stating that the ordinance requires 18 new parking spaces rather I'm sorry the ordinance does require that we need 18 parking spaces uh 17 is shown on our plan and this was a result of a a rounding era that was taken in the wrong direction so that will be corrected on any prior or coming iterations of the plan uh the net addition of parking spaces proposed including the bonus space for the EV charging station is nine spaces and you'll hear more detail testimony from our traffic expert should you desire uh on parking and circulation throughout the site uh there is an existing propane tank on the site this tank was installed in 1978 it predates the city 1999 ordinance prohibiting uh tanks of this nature the tank is a pre-existing non-conformity uh no changes are proposed to the tank although we are proposing a screening fence on two sides to block the view from uh the adjoining properties if we could uh switch to sheet four so sheet four is an exhibit uh which depicts the impervious surfaces on the site uh the gray shading exists uh propos the gray shading represents existing impervious surfaces uh the green indicates an a new perious or grass surface so it's a change from impervious to perious and the blue indicates a new uh impervious surface the existing impervious uh cover on the site is 19459 3 Square ft uh which is represents 45. 72% and this was approved at the uh past application on this site uh the proposed addition of imperious surface is 2755 Square ft which represents a change and increase of 65% less than 1% of the impervious on the site and this would bring the variance relief required up to 46 37% and then I would point out as you see the uh the coloration between the blue and the green throughout the site uh combined with the change of the topography on the site the buildings on the site and the screening plantings throughout the site it will be very difficult for anyone to notice the change of impervious coverage from any given point as they view the site uh runoff from the impervious surfaces uh is proposed to be uh directed to a properly sized trial system uh we'll go to sheet eight which shows the proposed Lighting on the site so we are proposing three new pole mounted lights uh on the reconstructed um Carriage House parking area you see them here by the movement of the the cursor uh those pole mounted lights comply with the 15 ft height restriction uh they all are proposed to have houseside shields um and they are all rated uh dark sky compliant by the manufacturer and they are all at a temperature of 3,000 Kelvin temperature rating color rating uh which complies with the city or ordinance we're proposing some Ballard style lighting uh along the sidewalks low intensity lighting and then there is some um additional Lantern style lighting proposed on the building uh that you'll hear about from the architect then if we can go to sheet two of my plan that's the steep slope plan we do have a steep slope variance proposed I'm sorry before you go on you you said page but I actually it's actually page nine yeah I'm sorry I think I have two page nines yeah it's the first page nine so again we have the the Reconstruction of the parking area in the carriage house so we have one pole mounted light here here and one here to the left of the turnaround area and again they fully comply with the city lighting uh ordinances uh then along the walkway that um comes up along side the side of the building here abing the screening for the chiller and condenser we have a Ballard site Li in very low intensity just to light the sidewalk and then along the rear of the building and the front of the building we're proposing some Lantern style lighting like a residential Lantern style um and the architect has some information on that for you so are you the person we should ask about when those lights will go on and off or should that be somebody else I don't have an answer for you for that another another witness okay so uh sheet two it shows the steep slope information so you'll see uh areas that are indicated on the screen in pink those are existing steep slope areas that exceed 15% and you can see that approximately 30% of the property is currently uh steep slopes there's an overall grade change on the property of 51 ft and we're proposing to disturb 2,79 square feet of the steep slopes uh that res represents just over 2% of the the steep slopes on the site and it represents an area of less than half a percent of the lot area um I feel the disturbance proposed is reasonable it can be achieved uh still while meeting the purpose of the steep slope ordinance uh we will have a an approved uh soil erosion and sediment control plan enacted for the project uh grading will not cause erosion or unstable uh runoff conditions uh we are proposing protective measures such as silt fencing Stone tracking pads and Inlet protection again the storm water runoff is controlled directed to a drywell all the existing runoff patterns are maintained uh therefore I feel the steep slope disturbance um and the amount proposed can be accomplished uh without affecting any of the neighboring properties of the health and safety or the welfare of the community uh I think that brings us just to the storm waterer control is what I have left for you so within the uh new reconstructed parking area under the turnaround area we're proposing to add a below grade uh drywall storm store chamber uh this is proposed to accommodate uh the runoff from the new impervious surfaces uh it was oversized by approximately 34% um and the manner in which this will function is there's inlets throughout the site which collect and direct the storm water from the site to this area all of the storm water from the site um exits an existing inlet at the North End of the turnaround area so it's proposed to intercept this water with our drywall system which will add an incremental storage for all the runoff from the site uh any water that bypasses the system will continue on its natural path to the exit Inlet from the site okay um have you had an opportunity to review the engineers report and if so can you provide any comments to the board with regard to that report that you haven't already covered in your testimony sure [Music] I did review it um and we have no problems complying with the conditions within the engineers report if there's any specific question I'd be happy to to try to field it okay um what about the comments with regard um in the administrative comments made by the fire chief and the environmental commission uh so the fire chief had asked that a fire department connection be added and of course we'll comply with with that it's a safety issue and you know we'll gladly do that uh the Environ environmental commission had asked if we had considered the use of uh permeable pavers throughout the site um it was something that we had looked at in some of the maintenance path areas I didn't feel it was appropriate for um the parking area reconstruction itself this is be an area which is going to be plowed sanded and salted um and these activities tend to degrade the the effectiveness of that uh over time uh So currently we are not proposing um any of those measures excellent thank you I don't have any other questions okay um let's go ahead and start with our experts Carl thank you chairman uh you you went over pretty much everything in our report which is good few questions here and there uh the soil logs before you dig for your SE fish we need a copy of the soil logs make sure the soil is good if for whatever reason the soil is not good in that area where they're proposing they would either have to relocate the see if it fits somewhere else on site or possibly come up with an alternative design for a shallower system or something like that to handle the volume of water um as far as the Overflow for the the pipe that's leaving over the drywall what's going on with that how are you doing the Overflow uh essentially it's a continuous pipe that traverses directly across the top of the dryw and has a opening on the bottom so it it'll let water in as the drywall becomes full um that pipe just becomes the the conduit for the remaining water to go bypass to the inlet so it's going to the next Inlet right which is the existing um the existing one Inlet out of the site yep understood uh and then so you already received Soil Conservation approval for your prior version so you're going back for we have to update that sure amended version so we'll need that before um breaking ground the the uh pathway the golf cart pathway um are you going to be using it for maintenance vehicles too if so what size uh again they're they're small like I said golf cart size Vehicles they're not they're not running yeah the Gators they're not running pickup trucks throughout the site it's maintenance uh two guys on a maintenance guy Gator with a a basket on the back and then the emergency access gate on the Brantwood uh can you give a I don't know if you're the right person for this but a little detail with that as far as access who has access uh is it only being for emergency situations or are we dealing with deliveries employee entrance and exits from there the maintenance vehicles coming in and out what's uh the the intent is that that is an emergency uh access uh we are proposing signage for that I'm trying to find the language that we are proposing to add to the sign I believe it's going to say authorized use only no parking is allowed and that's emergency access only thank you and then for the garbage pick up and recycling you said three times a week for garbage for recycling yes guessing early mornings I don't have a time on it now I don't know if that's hard here but um don't don't normally address it unless there's a particular condition that's proposed but but you're looking at three times a week for garbage one time for recycling right and then any comments for the trees that are being removed I refer the board to the city Foresters report for that so the landscape architect will testify to that got it thanks and that's really it for engineering okay just a few quick ones Mr chairman you answered most of my questions so thank you for that um not the harp on the propane Tech but is it shown on the current generation of the plan uh it is t uh the propane tank is to the north of the paddle paddle B Court the most eastern most not proposed to be reped right they're just adding a fence near it right a two two-sided fence going to have more screening yeah as far as signage goes you mentioned number of types of new signage indicating people Park in certain places can you give an overview of again of those types of signs more specifically no so mostly traffic right signs um and then finally more of an engineering issue but we just had a question about the eight unstriped parking spaces there's five in one and and three in another I guess you're okay with I'm not going to yeah it's an existing condition they're existing on stripe now we we didn't comment on if you exist if they were looking to um address it prove upon it then maybe they would look to reconfigure that I don't know what your what your intentions are but I'm assuming it's time it's yeah ROM as is I have Mr thank you okay questions from the board um I have a few questions and I'm not sure if you're the right person to ask um so you said that You' visited the property over 12 times over the the course of how long did you say was it about the last year or so year so you've seen like seasonal activities yes at the club um can you um address and I'm not like I said not sure you right person the the traffic the traffic flow over to um where BAS that goes with there the turnarounds and the drop off area I'm just one is when what is that drop off area mostly going to be used for is it SE like you know the pool in the summer the ice rink in the winter I I think the intent is primarily for winter use but it also is going to add a um a an appropriate turnaround area for that parking lot itself uh currently it's very awkward it's almost striped in a in a one way but the wrong way configuration so so the cars have a hard time backing out so we're going to provide the proper width uh and then if if if the car would like to turn around and come out facing forward they can do that rather than turning out so right now what's the drop off like if there's no turnar around there's no right now I mean from what my understanding is that they try to park if they can or well there sorry I'm just going to there is an existing turnaround it's just not welld designed it it's an expans of of pavement and your parking person I can assume with traffic engineer will testify to this traffic engineer will discuss this further I think would probably could answer your question better um I have some questions about the storm water so um you first she mentioned something about um the prior approval it was about six a little over 1600 under 1700 square feet of impervious cover in the late 90s or like early 2000 um so there's an existing drywall for that is there any other um storm water management on site any other any other drywalls or anything like that um the the last um site plan I don't know the year but that was the addition to the U manor house um we did propose uh a drywall behind the manor house house and in that particular um site Improvement not all of the proposed impervious surfaces were constructed so actually what we have is a very oversized drywall for the work that was done behind uh the manor house uh we also did a storm sore Improvement reconstruction I'm going to guess 10 years ago uh and we added a a dryw um yeah it's it's within that grass area to the rear of the of the manor house at the bottom of the slope there so how much of your impervious cover are you managing the storm water runoff on site as opposed to a storm sewer right now because that's kind of not I'm not clear on that I see what you're adding and I see that you had six but I also see that and on on sheet one I think there's an error it says that that zoning allowed in r43 uh 30% impervious cover but it's actually 15% so the reason I'm asking that question is that you know existing conditions are already 45.72 imp previous cover and what I see you know when you come up um and I so I know it sounds like you're just adding a little bit and you're managing the part that you're adding but I see a huge property with a lot of impervious cover when you drive D up off of Hobart all of that storm water basically runs down and it doesn't get managed on the bottom of the property it runs off the property onto the service road for 24 um so there's not one storm catch Basin or drain or anything from there's one you show well I don't know if you can see it on that drawing but says there's one by the house um you know the main um the basically the main Lodge house up in the top right left corner of the parking lot um but that's actually not capturing most of the storm water and runoff that's coming there so I'm just I'm I'm trying to understand where you know how um much of your storm water is actually being managed on site because it is a really big property and that's a lot of runoff so the the way that the the runoff from the site currently functions is there's essentially a high point at the site which runs generally around the front parking area and this driveway which goes back out to Hobart so you have a drainage area which drains uncontrolled to the South uh through the wooded area here down towards the tennis courts uh it's then captured in uh storms inlets that are at the concrete curb gutter line uh at the intersection of Morris Essex and Hobart um that's not the main portion of the site certainly estimating 75 to 80% of the site drains uh to the Northwest uh that's generally Overland drainage uh all of the roof uh gutters are piped to uh a series of inlets that are throughout the site uh all of the runoff from the hockey rink uh the building of the developed areas travels via piping to an inlet uh which is in the area uh we're proposing the um turnaround uh and there it enters the storm sour system of brandwood drive you have a storm water management system on brandwood Drive is that storm storm to the storm sewer storm Source system so most of the runoff is just going to the storm sewer the current currently right because there are there are four drains on the when you're coming out of the hockey rink the top on facing the hill on the right hand side you have like four storm drains but that's not necessarily capturing all the runoff either in a sheet flow like condition most of the of the site sheet flows or is piped Into the Storm Source system but about 80% of the runoff from the site enters the existing Inlet uh that's at um right here at the northern point of the turn around area and there it enters into an existing pipe where it goes into the storm sour system for brandwood drive and has there been any like overflow of that system that you're aware of in storm events or do you know I I don't know I'm not aware I mean I've done three projects on the site uh We've added three drywalls each time each time they've been oversized for what was required [Applause] so are those dry Wells that from previous projects on this plan [Music] [Music] uh so on sheet two which is the steep slope plan you'll see some of the the piping throughout the site but there's an inlet here um which was was an inlet uh we converted that to a dryw well uh and then just off of the patio to the back of the manor house we added another dry well but they're not on plan uh the one is the other one's not well the one it's an inlet then the one that's at what is that okay and I have another question about the can you just clarify about the parking you mentioned something about how um 18 spaces would be required um and I'm I'm not sure I think I misunderstood because I'm looking at the zoning it says 149 spaces are required you have 74 and you're proposing uh 83 so adding nine but I I wasn't following on the 18 with that yeah we we had on the plan that 18 additional or SE 17 additional spaces were required uh I had a rounding error it's it's 18 not 17 so why are I'm I'm not understanding why 17 versus 18 are required when what it actually is required is 149 right for the site so if I could just interrupt the traffic engineer will explain it but there was a prior approval that granted I believe it's 74 spaces a variance for 74 spaces which this board felt was was adequate for the site so it's only anything above that is related to these specific improvements so these improvements require 18 spaces got it and we're providing nine okay question couple questions um so the the the new proposed water management system in the lower lot yes what's the cap this is probably your more your engineers perview than mine but is that what's the capacity of that and what is it collecting and you're saying it's oversized but oversized compared to what so the the way the ordinance is written is that we need to collect um 3 in of runoff off of the new impervious surfaces MH so we have a building expansion we have the 2000 some 100 squ ft of additional perious surface uh we run the calculations out um with the 3 in we come up with the volume not sure if I can read it off of here can we just move up a bit so here's our our capacity calculations um so so the the overall requirement was the 689 cubic feet of uh runoff storage uh our dyal is providing 928 so about a third and um again the storm sore um we are adding inlets throughout the developed uh portion of the site that we're reconstructing and we're proposing to capture the roof drains and we're piping that into the drive wall directly and that's well within that calculation obviously yes and then this is going to be a silly question but I got to ask it anyway uh in the roundabout you're putting a new storage system underground storage um is that going to be designed to hold heavy apparatus or heavy equipment yes it be traffic rated okay if you are U with the parking uh you're adding you're only covering what you need to above a prior prior uh approval how does that relate to drainage are you only handling that which you need to handle because of what you're adding or is there a possibility that this entire piece of property could be proper L drained through this project so that there won't be any problems from this thing over here or that over here that we will have a completely controlled drainage on the Beacon Hill Club well all the most of the drainage from this site as I said it it finds its way to that that Inlet and enters the storm sour system of brandwood uh the city Summit Engineering Department publishes a a list of drainage problem areas uh where they have a storm sore system on their city property where they have found that there's not sufficient capacity um I'm not aware that this is on that list so um this site has been here for 50 some odd years it's been functioning correctly 70 70 years 70 Y and each time we've modified it we've provided incr incrementally additional storage to what the ordinance requires us to do I don't know if the city engineer wants to weigh in on this C eng mean Consulting engineer so as far as I would agree with the statement that as the improvements are done you're you have been addressing whatever improvements are made to that particular area in this case you're handling the the um increase in impervious area the net change let's call it that net change so uh we reviewed the Cs um we agree with the Cals that were the calculations that were provided uh there's substantial room in there and there's excess in there for additional storage of the runoff so as far as the storm water goes we feel adequate for what's being designed here for what they're adding for what they're adding yes okay and how do we analyze the whole project the whole property the are we are we do we have any authority to do that no because I figured I was going to get that answer from here so our our code specifically requires that what they have to address cumulative increase in impervious area of at least 300 Square ft um that 300 Square ft it per the ordinance is measured as of the date of passage of this ordinance and cod s doesn't say what the date was but in running that question by Christa quite some time ago I believe it was approximately 1993 don't quote me on that but uh so that's the date that we're focused on and it sounds per the testimony that they've been addressing any impervious coverage increases with all these projects since 1993 so we can't go back to the beginning of time and ask them to address more storm water uh that's the uh the requirement that were mandated by Under the code okay annual report time okay okay um I've got a couple of questions in two different areas one sorry still on storm water um okay I I I understand you you you probably were not on site on August 18th when we receive take your pick four or five inches of of rain in two hours is there somebody on the team who can testify at as to how that storm water was handled or how the site handled the storm water I believe the manager spoke the last time it could be so um right he's not the general manager is not here tonight um it's just the president of the club but if he wasn't on site then he couldn't testify to that okay um and then you had I know there's a traffic engineer you had also provided some testimony about parking and I had questions there and I just want to be sure I'm asking the right person if it's you or the traffic engineer probably the traffic engineer okay I'll hold um but he'll be here so if he has to come back we'll get an answer one way or the other you will okay so there's any other question any other questions from the board for this witness okay from the public are there question questions for this witness please come forward state your name spell your last name and your address Andrea dug L Liu 35 wood Fern Road Summit I want to ask about the large puddle that seems to exist outside of the gate on brandwood if you're facing the gate it's on the right hand side there always seems to be a large puddle of water there on the right hand side of the gate if you're facing the gate as you're facing the gate going in okay correct okay this is on the the outside of the gate yes is it on brandwood Drive yes right I I haven't sorry I haven't done any specific study of of what is happening on brandwood Drive I know the city just reconstructed it about 18 months ago so I'm surprised to hear that there's ponding happening there has that been happening before the Reconstruction and now after again that's probably a question for public comment and not necessarily public questions portion right well the answer is you know nothing about at this point so we'll we'll have to bring it up elsewhere is the puddle in the street or on their property it's on the property it's on in the and their within their line on the other side of the stone wall but it's between the curve line and the and the stone wall yes okay we're supposed to see that I think that's in the right of way so I'm not sure that that's actually their property perhaps you could look into that and get back to us when well this is we can but it looks like it's outside of the property line so whose property is it the city of summit okay we will bring it up we'll ask you to ask your question on the comments any other public questions hi um I'm Leah no Calahan O Apostrophe your name and address yes I'm lead no Calahan O Apostrophe c a l l a g h an I live at 24 brandwood thank you um just had a question if the um garbage or recycling uh collection times would be changing as part of this proposal or were were you just citing the times Just for information I I I didn't speak to the times only that it's occurring three times a week so I'm sure there's someone else that can give you talk to the times and what's intended for that I'm not aware of any changes proposed but there there's no change proposed okay any other questions from the public seeing none um okay how long do you think next Witnesses um what's the architect so that's probably the the longest one of all of them so okay then I'm going to suggest that we take our traditional five minute break sure uh which means that we'll be back here at 9:00 thank you e e e e e e e e e e e e e e next if you would Ryan Cooney the architect please raise your right hand do you square from the testimony you're about to give in this matters the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth I do please state your name spell your last name uh Brian Cooney Co o n y thank you and can you briefly describe your back background and experience for the board please um I have a my masters in architecture from Catholic University um I've been licensed in New Jersey and New York since 2016 and I've uh appeared before uh two boards in the state New Jersey Wai and pump thans any questions from the board any questions from any no we'll accept your credentials and if you would proceed sure um same question can you explain the steps that you've taken to prepare yourself to give expert testimony in this matter sure I've surveyed the site um I surveyed the existing buildings on the site I've prepared the plan to see before you the 3D renderings um I've uh reviewed the city ordinance the uh the application and uh uh also responded to the administrative letters uh that were sent to our office and can you tell the board what was the objective of this project given to you by the applicant yeah so the main objective um is to really modern the two buildings that are on the site uh the both of them were renovated uh a long time ago uh 1989 for the carriage house and is the '90s for the Pat's house um the carriage house uh really at this point in time is uh it's at the end of its useful life with most of the portions of the building the uh the the roof the the HBC system the windows the kitchen the hockey Chiller was just replaced but most of the main spaces are all kind of tired and old they renovated 1989 so the main objective was to bring it into the 21st century uh it was to make it more Ada accessible and uh while we're doing this is to upgrade the Aesthetics of the building as well uh for Pat's house the the main objective was to uh kind of increase the visibility of of hockey it's a hockey viewing house that it's hard to see hockey out of so uh to make that visibility better uh and change the the uh the front facade so you can see hockey better and it doesn't uh Frost over uh that was the main objective of it of that is to update that as well uh to kind of Club standards these days um did you prepare plans to meet and address the objectives you just laid out for the board I did and can you go through those plans and describe what is existing and the proposed improvements sure and I'll go through the plans on the screens the sides here and you can see my cursor moving that's I'm pointing to um and I know Bill Scott the civil engineer went through the site I just want to go to the site one more time with our coloriz site plan just to orient you um our our building is in our two buildings are in the dark ray here and here on the lower campus the upper campus is the main Clubhouse uh at this portion where they're adding the Ada parking spaces and the new park spaces our main focus is down here and our new additions are the darker gray so you can see an entry Edition on the front off the parking lot you can see the Side Edition here in the dark right and then the kitchen Edition on the right then a Pat's house to orient you is uh on the middle portion of the hockey rink here in the dark right here uh taking through to the demolition plans so the majority of the interior of the space uh is is really getting reconfigured we're keeping some spaces but um and the actual us of them are uh staying the same but we're rehabbing basically the entire building uh the the lower portion of the building as it sits right now has um as you enter in here there's a front Courtyard and as you enter in there is an entry Lobby in stairs and an ice skating shop off of that um on the back side there is the guest locker rooms and Zamboni storage and maintenance are all put in one space right here as you can see and on the lower level over here to the right which is going to remain are is the pool equipment and uh really a large maintenance room and on the back side of the building it's Subterranean there's a vault here that has uh pump equipment for the uh uh changed hockey Chiller and this is basically what circulates all the material to keep that the rink going uh as we move up on the demolition plan uh as you can see I don't know if it's apparent in the screen it's kind of small but everything uh that's dashed is getting removed we're essentially removing most of the Interior partitions uh to allow for a new uh new layout on the left side of the building there is a external um egress stair which we're removing because uh our egress is compli with the new layout and it's fairly unsightly and if you look on the left side here there here's the existing path up to the hockey rink right here I'm scrolling on it now uh and also to orient you uh to what's in this building which is staying is there's a kitchen on the right side uh adjacent to the patio and that has a a window open up to the side for people to get food for the pool uh there's two windows to the pool side off the dining room uh uh next to the kitchen there's a small bar off of that that kind of serves this whole Space there's a central Atrium type um Lobby then the locker rooms are on the left side now moving through the building uh one of the main objectives of this was also to uh upgrade the Ada uh pathway through the building do we want people to be able to get upstairs because the topography Topography of the site didn't doesn't really allow for a full ramp to get up to the hockey rink it's not compliant it's very steep so uh we want to make a path uh and egress path from the the downstairs lower Lobby up through the building and out through the back of the building to the pool so as you enter in uh this is the new entry Edition it's only an upper story so it creates a covered entryway for new people to for people to come in um right now the current entry is a little understated and we want to create a real uh sense of entrance to the building uh we also want to keep the same scale of the building as well so we didn't want to go above the the ridge line we want to keep with the Aesthetics of the building so as you come in uh this is your entryway up and the skate shop still exists right off the lobby uh the pool equipment room is all staying as is except for uh some food storage which we're Walling off uh there's Storage off the back side of the lobby for uh for General use the Zamboni storage uh is is going to stay here it's a parking space for the Zam Zamboni machine right now this was all maintenance facility and really a big portion of this Edition this this whole bottom portion of the new addition is an upgraded maintenance facility now that they have this larger space this Courtyard right here where currently you see these three arrows this is the driveway where they have to house things out there they to perform maintenance out here now they can cover everything and enclose it inside they they can kind of clean up the the operation and have um more SP for themselves uh the guest locker rooms uh I don't know if you can see the small key plan here but the roundabout is to the upper left on the plan uh for drop off of guests so a guest would be dropped off and then they would come into these two locker rooms here for either hockey or pool uh for swim Meats um the other thing that uh Bill Scott also testified to was the relocated Chiller you can see here this is the um this is the new Chiller location on the left side of the building uh this is screened in the front with uh a fence and Gates and this is in the back side it's essentially not completely subterranian but it's it's within the slope so it's uh covered from view the the electrical vault is also staying this in the subterran vault is staying in the back side uh as you move up so imagine you're uh in your Ada uh pathway you come up the elevator and you can access the pool and skating rink through this hallway and out this door uh there's a 1T change from the pool surface to the actual building floor so it's two steps down so to make it ad accessible uh with the landscape we found a pathway through the building if you can see in the green and out here so you can either go to the ice rink or to the pool uh in with wheelchair accessibility um as you arrive in this Lobby uh the new addition of the front um just give you some Square footages here it's uh 640 ft it's a new living room space so it' be uh additional pre function space for the dining room um or it's usable for uh people to uh use as a lounge the new addition on the left side as you go through uh it houses on the Upper Floor uh employee offices for both hockey and pool and it has multi-purpose room it' be used for Camp it' be used for referees it has a lot of uses for between the seasons uh it has we have ada8 accessible bathrooms and uh two ad accessible bathrooms electrical room storage so a lot of uh updated amenities for the space which don't exist right now the the people the staff that works there eat their lunch essentially in the the kitchen so we're giving them space for that in the office in the multi-purpose room as as family changing rooms right that's right that's correct now as you can go through the north side of the building where we had the locker rooms previously we have a new layout which has women's and men's um with new Ada accessible showers we have uh the appropriate amount of uh toilets for this amount of people um and new lockers just complete uh interior refresh of the space uh as we move into the dining room in the bar uh the bar is expanded uh to have this L-shaped bar and it's uh also has an expanded uh it's a 320t kitchen so now the the kitchen that exists now uh is inadequate to really uh feed the amount of people or cook the amount of food for the space now can actually feed the amount of people here they would be able to um and they be able to have full service down here um similar to what they have now but now the the kitchen's adequate uh so renovated dining room space which now um the two windows that were existing we are uh connecting to a covered patio on the outside so you'd be able to connect the dining room space to the pool space in the seasons where it makes sense uh this this is the lower part of the added pool side patio you can see the the this small elk here on the bottom is the actual pool itself so there's room for chairs and then you'd have a covered place to either uh eat or or have Refuge um the main entrance uh two entries are in the back side are the ada8 entrance here and then this is a covered uh Portico entrance on this side here oh and the uh the access to the the uh upper pool deck is here the stairs here on the right side so this is a roof plan of the existing uh structure in the new so on the left we have our new addition on the front we have our new entry Edition which is standing seam roof um all the ridge Heights are all not exceeding what's there now we wanted to keep the same uh roof Ridge height throughout so we didn't change the scale of the building um the other thing that uh we want to remedy on the back side of the building I don't if you can see this dark line here left to right of the page um it was a oversized facade which they called The Castle which we wanted to change in scale to reduce it it was it's way oversized for that portion of the the building so the roof deck adds kind of scale to the middle middle of the castle facade and gives gives this backside a better appearance from what it has now it also adds uh pool decking space because the the pool itself does have limited chair space as it is now so this is another place for family to use for the pool you you can also see here this kind of diamond shaped entry it's also standing Ste roof to match the front and it would be uh an entry point to the building now moving through uh page 87 uh this is a this is looking essentially straight from brentonwood drive straight from the driveway you can see the areal arrow here looking straight at the uh side of the building here you can see the new addition we're proposing on the right side uh you can see we're keeping the same roof line of the building and we're keeping the same materiality that was one of the comments from the historic um uh historic comments yes thank you um they they requested that stone be used at the bottom of the building to match the existing to keep the character and um we we're going to do that we're going to match the stone as best we can uh to keep the look um from the from the existing building so the top would be stucco as the existing is and as the stone the lower portion would would match as best we can uh the the roof which we're now replacing all roofs because it's it's time for a new roof it's leaking a bit uh we're going to be replacing with an architectural uh shingle roof uh that would give an upgraded look uh the front entry you can see here it's on 45 degree angle so kind of hard to see well the next slide will be straight on you can see uh on the top is the existing you can see the kind of the smaller smaller scale just windowed opening now we have uh covered entry uh point of Ral uh the other the other uh thing you can see from this uh elevation is the air conditioning screening so these two pointed Chimneys in the back I don't if you can see my cursor moving that's the that's the oversized uh facade in the back side of the building the pool side so with the new screening you can you can see it here uh on the left side uh it blocks all the air conditioning uh air conditioning equipment that's back behind on a flat roof it's an existing flat roof that uh houses equipment now we're reutilizing it and putting all our condensers up there and screening it with a believe a 5 foot fence to um to block it from view um this next page I scroll to next page A6 uh this is the new addition on the front front entry uh it has a stuck e o veneer top uh the roof line and the gutter line all match uh you can see we have a colony below which you can enter under and have cover um and it has the same FL floor as the existing 128 um we're keeping that uh has an existing Koopa which we're keeping and we're going to repair as uh best we can so we want to keep that character of the building as well um I think that's it for this one but really this is really this just shows the new entry and then rehabbing the rest new windows and paint and making the rest of the building look a bit better uh these elevations are the pool side so uh this is on the it's a two-part elevation so you can see the dashed rectangle we're on the right side so you can see that elevation I was talking about the tall this is just a straight facade right now these are the two windows we are turning into doors and this is the raised uh Upper Deck area with the covered area below you can see the new snack bar window here on the right and you can see an opening to the bar on the left that would open up in the warmer months and you'd be able to sit there this is the left side so you can see the you can see the Ada entrance here and you can see the slight elevation change to the pool level here here we would uh behind you you'd be able to get to the pool level uh from this entrance here and this is the covered uh front entry point uh on on 45 degree angle to the building right here this view is of the side so you can see the uh entrance to the new deck so this is the kitchen Edition um which has a lower uh pitched roof it just covers the the new 320 ft Edition and that is over an existing basement um but there is uh no building Above This is just this is fencing showing our border and board fencing we're planning on putting everywhere Uh Wood Bard and board fencing um will be within the height of the ordinance uh with all of our fencing uh looking back here this is the existing maintenance entrance right here uh we're going to keep that and we're going to replace the roofing uh and then this fenced area is a maintenance area will which will house the future generator um and it'll it screens any uh items that might be stored there we want to screen it from the neighbors anything any maintenance activity could be happening in there uh this stepped this stepped wall here this houses the new hockey Chiller so you can see the rectangle right here uh it's so it's uh cut into the slope side here um and we're going to have safety fencing along the edge so uh it's uh it's adequately high enough to be safe by code uh moving on to the uh renderings these are actually an earlier version I just want to preface this as an earlier version of the design The Walls by the front entry have changed a little bit but it's in general it's the essence of our design is what it's going to look like um this is the pool side this is a view from the back side of the pool the tennis court side of the pool looking forward you can see the uh back addition here with the uh with the seating under it and uh you're able to have uh pool seating on the front of it as well as seating uh underneath here's the entrance into the dining room here and then you can see the new addition on the left side here's the opening into the uh the new bar area here so that concludes cludes The Carriage House portion I'll go into Pat's house this is the hockey viewing house it's uh it's located Midway down the hockey rink and used for warming Hut and uh parent viewing uh well actually viewing any hockey that's on the on the rink as you can see the existing facade is stepped here so I've actually seen a couple hockey games here and you find yourself going around the windows it's hard very hard to see the hockey um and it makes it challenging to follow follow the game so uh Our intention is to straighten that out to make it a much more easily viewable um experience for the hockey games there's also an upper roof deck which uh is access to this very small uh spiral stair uh the spiral stair is uh very unsafe and can only be used at one person at a time and uh during larger hockey games this area seems to be full of people and seems very unsafe so our our our um proposed plan is to remedy that make it more easily accessible and more room for people to actually View and not crowd the space here's our here's our new plan uh that we're proposing uh lower level is on the bottom where you can see uh these are the portions of the facade we're infilling this is what's causing a variance is uh our addition of square footage in these 1 2 3 four places uh this is the only added square footage of the space um are these four uh and that is to straighten out the facade to make it more easily uh viewable to the ice this bace is uh Remains the Same function it's a warming Hut and viewing uh it's essentially a uh large open space um and uh it also has a a fireplace which we are not changing we're keeping that as is as well your your entry into the space spaces here on the left side you can see the stair um we would have a metal stair going up and that would access this portion up here this is the open roof deck which is now not access by a spiral staircase it has a a code compliant stair staircase um and then entry into an upper viewing area which would essentially be a large upper space as well open space as well with a new fireplace as well here's a roof plan just indicating uh the the roof deck and the the roof uh these are the elevations of Pats house so uh currently we're keeping the height of the lower level um more or less the same within a foot and then we're adding a level on top of it this causing a height variance I'll get into the variances after I run through these elevations um uh that causing that's causing a height variance there's a um width variance that we are actually not um seeking anymore because of changes to the plan and the air conditioning systems this little portion of the building this in the back side the non- rink side we are not building because we don't need for air conditioning anymore it's not used so we're just not building it so we're not seeking a uh dimensional variance for the building here are views of the existing and the new so on the right side as existing you have uh an access Tower with the spiral stair here and here's the viewing area up top with the railing here's that stepped facade next to the ice rink and here's A View From Below and then this is our new uh proposed Edition with the straight facade on the bottom uh keeping this line here not going further than the existing uh front box Bay portion of the the house um and and then here's a view of the uh the stairs going up these are a couple views from the ice so you can see the existing Pats house on the right again and the new on the left okay um using what I would ask you mark As A2 and A3 can you describe the materials and colors to be used for the proposed improvements to the buildings and a32 will be the car so 82 this is a carriage house so our proposed materials are keeping the existing Stone stucko and the paint would be a neutral collar uh we're proposing a architectural W shingle as you can see uh that there and a standing steam roof for the front entry portions uh we're staying with more neutral colors um the stone we're picking you can see here there's two stones on the bottom portion of this board um on the right or on your your right this is the existing and on the left is the proposed uh Stone we're going to be placing on the new additional bot so we're trying to match it as best we can um it is over 50 Old Stone so hard to match but I we're going to do our best to match it um the best of our ability uh the this uh this material here is a uh it's a it's a fauxwood uh for the ceilings so underneath the covered areas will have uh it's a PVC material uh that would be a woodl material for the the bottom of the the open areas so the front entry and the back addition and you can see copper gutters or um Brown gutters to to go around the entire A3 for Pat's house similar materials uh similar in nature uh the majority of the house uh of Pat's house on the upper portion is covered by horizontal siding uh and on the lower portion we are using a brick that's going to match the existing so we want to keep the character of it having a brick base and then we're adding the the siding on top um you can also see the architectural shingles uh there that we use for for the roof perfect and can you describe uh for the board the proposed lighting for the project oh before he does that could he show those to the audience because I don't think they had a chance to see any of those put them up so that they can be seen the a this is A3 this is Pat's house this is a A2 which is the car thank you uh describing the lighting of of the new additions you ask that okay so I will I'll go back to elevations to explain um our building has uh Lantern style lighting at the entry points for entry lighting uh these are decorative nature residential nature uh the match what's on campus um they're going to be kept atow wattage levels and really will be decorative uh they'll be within the 3,000 Kelvin zoning limit um fixtures of this nature are not dark sky compliant because they're not parking lot lighting they're decorative lighting that we're going to keep at low level so we're these are really just face mounted decorative lights is what we're proposing so that's going to be at the entry points on the front and the back of the building uh for the Carri house and for Pat's house we have one at the go here the entry points up above will they be controlled by a timer yes and interior lights will also be controlled by sensors and timers as well um and can you describe the Ada accessibility sure um I went through the path but we'll do the direct path through the uh the plans um as you enter from the Ada parking spaces right off the front the front gate here you enter in through a Ada sloped walkway to the front entry through the front doors uh and you'd be able to enter in through the ADA Compliant elevator and as you get upstairs you exit and you can either choose to go to the dining room or you can uh turn and go through this uh accessible walkway out and either go to the hockey side or the pool side it's fully Ada accessible and this allows for direct and seamless connection with the locker rooms and dining areas as that's correct yeah so the Ada pathway from the elevator connects to all Ada facilities so bathrooms changing rooms anything required by Ada code this this path will connect to it um and have you had an opportunity to review the administrative comments and can you resp response to those comments yes you want to go through the variances sure um let me go through I'll go through the go through these first so um we we went through the administrative comments uh we gave our responses the fire chief uh had uh a request for um hbfc fencing access on the roof which we will comply with so this screening up here we're going to provide a opening in the side for firefighters to get to that equipment if there was ever an issue complying with that uh on on Brent wav they requested a uh a sprinkler uh connection which we're going to comply with uh they requested full sprinkler coverage for the car chest which we will comply with the the one that we are in discussion with them about is full coverage of Pat's house um it's not required by code at the moment um the way it's designed we are co- compliant they request it to be fully covered uh it's it would be an extremely hard uh hard thing to get to Pats house just by the topography and uh we're we're having that conversation with the fire chief and uh whatever they request we'll comply with um the construction official requested plans showing uh full co- compliance smoke R smoke alarms um fire readings uh we're going to submit our full architect R set to them when we're done and should comply with all those requests um Health Department comments they ask for uh them to be uh filed with the Westfield um the Westfield Health Department which we've sent in so those are under review um and then the environmental commission um they had comments about the permeable Paving but Bill Scott the civil engineer testified to that and then if you want to just run through the variances yeah so the variances for for to find it here for Pat's house there is the dimensional variance I mentioned that here we are uh that we're not going to be um we're not going to be requesting is uh the the uh accessory buildings um are only allowed to be 24x 24 um we we're going to be over that but we the existing buildings and non-conforming uh building over that it's 21 by 56 and we will not be changing that Dimension uh the height is another one um it's also a existing non-conformity accessory structures in Summit are allowed to be 15 ft um and the existing structure itself right now is 19.2 ft to the upper roof and our new uh height is um is going to be 8.5 ft higher than that uh there was um I just want to note that in the front of or in the application there the height was listed at 33.5 ft which I'd like to correct um that's uh to the ridge height is actually 30.5 ft and the actual grade plane height per the zoning ordinance is 27.7 Ft so um the actual design height is 27.7 Ft uh to to The Ridge of the building given the grade plane where is that on our um where is the 27 the grade plane on this can you just so we can fix it quickly while we're here I think it's um if you look on uh the drawing you're looking at now that's number one of the Civil plans uh you can just see Building height ISP yeah I see for the height but I didn't see about the um grade plane that's all so that's not on here somewhere else his it's a greatan that's a car house I believe not great plan I think he did it for both okay would have to to come back up and explain that 27.7 30.5 well no it's 30.5 but in the grade plane where they take the average from the front and the back of the building is 27.7 you want to just keep going sure the last variants um that we um did not mention is for an accessory building uh uh the allowable stories is one and the exist existing building is two and we are proposing um two as well uh so we're not changing that uh that part of the U existing non-conforming the allowable what was the what was it uh the allowable uh stories only one for yeah for an accessory building is one and the existing is two we're keeping it expanding expanding greatly just for record keeping sake I I think there's a floor area for the access oh yeah yes you're right we got we we shifted all this around uh yes so what's permitted uh under thank you for reminding me the permitted square footage is uh 576 Square ft for an accessory building uh the existing building is 1120 ft and we're adding those four portions of slab for the new facade and that raises our proposed square footage to 1,175 square ft and can you tell the board in your opinion as an expert in the field of architecture if the proposed improvements will provide an aesthetic benefit as well as meet other purposes of zoning yeah the the building right now uh needs a bit of um help aesthetically so we feel that this design will not only add uh front entrance Aesthetics it'll it'll in general the entire building of the carriage house will look better with the new roof paint finishes um and the new additions are going to keep in kind with the existing building they're going to keep the stone and the stucco and the look of the existing and and try to match the facade as best we can um from the maintenance side uh the the lower portion will allow for much better functioning maintenance um system down below where a lot of times now things are out in the open now they'll be able to be enclosed uh the the staff will be able to do things indoors which they couldn't before uh in general the front facade um we believe is uh add a benefit to in front of the house of front of that building um let see um the pool area is also going to be improved but that is internal that's uh Club only adjacent um the lighting around uh the facade of the building the lighting in general won't be on the facade of the building anymore right now there's spotlights in the side of the building that'll be improved where the sight lighting will be on posts and dark sky dark sky compliant in the parking lot instead of the facade uh and any architectural lighting will be low grade um mean mechanical equipment uh as I mentioned the hockey Chiller and the new hvbc equipment will be environmentally friendly uh much more than the the current uh equipment right now uh it the uh proposed site improvements uh it maintains uh it maintains uh the character uh permitted under suit ordinance so we we want to keep the same look of the building uh and scale as best we could uh the improvements will also be screamed by uh significant uh Landscaping on the brandwood side which our landscape engineer will uh review with his board um but we feel like this project will also help with the screening from that side of the project as well um and the new mechanical equipment will that be quieter and energy efficient as well yes all the new equipment will be energy efficient and much quieter than before um the old equipment was from the 80s and quite loud now it'll be up to today's standards I don't have any other questions okay our U professionals do you have anything can uh we do have a few thank you for the good overview of architectural plans um I guess the first question would pertain to programming and I know this was touched on in the first hearing but obviously you know there are certain improvements proposed in certain spaces within the carriage house and Pat's house I don't know if it's appropriate question for you or somebody else but um again will there be any changes uh to the site's programming with respect to utilization of spaces number of people on site number of events I believe that's for the traffic engineer probably best or pascala he hasn't been sworn in yet right he was at the last I'm sorry at the last time Shing okay Pascal aland l a l nde we expect no change in programming as a result of these upgrades and do you expect an increase in membership we don't no that's not the purpose of this application right it's not the purpose it's just to improve the existing space that we have for our current members okay thank you for that and as far as the ice cream CES I have in my notes that it goes from 7 a.m. to 10 p.m. that's correct currently Clos yes and and how long has it been 7 to 10 p.m. approximately 50 years okay will the utilization increase as a result of the P's house no we have no expectation of an increase in utilization um is the ice rink or any other part of the campus we'll call it um can be rented for third party utilization MERS we occasionally have private events in the main house upstairs the ice rank are you talking about the ice rank or the whole okay yes so the main house is no changes contemplated here with the plans uh I'm guessing no quote me on it it's maybe 8 to 10 private events per year we don't expect that to change it consistent it will that's it for unless the board ask questions while it's here I have one question to follow up with this um the food and beverage program that's planned at the Carriage House what are the current hours of operations and what proposed it's seasonal um at the carriage house so the hockey rink is a seasonal limited use facility it's primarily used um during the pool season the hours of the carriage house for dining during the pool season the pool opens at noon 11: or noon and it closes at 7 um for for Pat's house um it's it's primarily used by the younger children and the families of the younger children they're on the ice from 5:00 to 6:00 p.m. usually um The Carriage House can be used for dining after hockey I believe it closes at 10:00 okay thank you um I have a question too just related since I think you're probably the person to ask it but it touches on something that you had brought up um it was about the food and needing to change some of these changes um to accommodate the number of people and that was referenced a number of times like the number of people so I guess I'm curious I know you said your membership's not going you're not planning to increase it but I'm wondering how many members do you have now versus how many members did you have in 1991 when this was last when there was last approval for a site plan I don't have the data from 19991 unfortunately we could try to dig that up I I don't have it here I can tell you over the last 3 or 4 years our membership is basically flat well while while we're asking questions we probably should have asked last time um when you said that the hockey rink is used from 7 to 7:00 a.m. to 10 p.m. does that include maintenance within that I mean the the prepping it before and after um or is that just skate time so so the it's it's both so during the week um we're contemplating hours of 7 to 10 p.m. 7 to 10 for the the maintenance during the week can happen early in the morning because the kids are largely in school except on holidays so the maintenance would be from 7: to 9:00 a.m. roughly and the on Ice activities would be from after the maintenance is done until 10: p.m. after 10: p.m. to in order to prepare for the next morning there's some amount of Maintenance that has to happen we expect that in most cases it will be completed by 10:15 to 10:30 M so you say that's during the week what about on weekends on the weekends the it would hockey always ends at 10: we there's there are no on Ice activities Not Just Hockey any on I activities past 10 and then the maintenance schedule after that would be roughly the same the only difference on the weekend is that's when the kids play hockey we host games from teams that come from Long Island other parts of New Jersey so the games have to be on the weekend and the first game starts at 700 a.m. so we are proposing in our conditions of approval to be able to start maintenance at 6:00 a.m. which again is consistent with how we've operated for the last several decades and is that also consistent with other clubs in New Jersey that have outdoor ranks it is we've gathered data from other clubs in New Jersey the tri-state area that are in our club League that Beacon Hill participates in and it's substantially similar I have to ask the question how loud is a zamb boning or whatever you're going to be using to treat your ice I mean I don't think he's qualified to answer that question well do we have somebody who is no I mean I would say it's we don't allow a whole lot of uh things to happen in Summit before 8:00 in the morning like lawnmowers gardeners Etc and I want to know what the what the equipment that you're and maybe you're not using as zoning I apologize it whenever you're using how much volume and how far will it go to affect neighbors so I guess my response to that is over the last 50 years Summit has never applied the noise ordinance because um and same thing with these other clubs uh summit's noise ordinance and New Jersey noise noise ordinance are similar um so these other clubs are also operating on the same hours um a Zamboni is like a snowplow or the snow maintenance removal equipment which is actually exempt from the portion of the noise ordinance lawn lowers or not exempt from an or I don't think you're comp and Apples to Apples sambon is an option snowall how we kind of you know clear streets to get the hospitals and stuff so you're not really comparing Apples to Apples well they're talking about on private property lower right yeah okay I mean I I would I would again just state that for 50 years Summit has never applied the noise ordinance to the site it has always been outside of the doesn't mean there isn't a first down and it doesn't I would say the the loudest tool that we have used in the past is actually the ice edger which is a handheld tool that's used to smooth out the ice in the area that abuts the boards where the Zamboni can't reach and we've replaced that equipment with the electric version so it's much more quiet um I would venture that none of the neighbors can hear it anymore we had a a bobcat machine that moves snow ground on the property as it comes off the ice we're going to limit the use of that Bobcat into the hockey and maintenance operating hours okay and excuse me I'd like to also point out there is significant landscaping that's being proposed that will buffer a lot of the sound that's existing right now I'm sure we'll ask your landscape people about that any other question I guess can I just go back to member question yeah so the zanon thing okay it was just being discussed I Googled it based on Google and what I found the decibal level that is being discussed from a couple different websites is 77 Deb so looking what an equivalent that would be the equivalent like a vacuum cleaner that's what it says I don't know if it's truth or not but just to give some perspective cuz I was curious with everybody talking what it is that's what I was able to pull off interesting I don't know if that helps or hurts but facts never hurt yes yeah so I I checked three locations and they all say between 75 and 80 77 popped up twice and you said that's similar to a vacuum cleaner I'm sorry is that's similar to a vacum clean that's what it states but the thing is I don't know the distance of where you're hearing this I don't know how the Zamboni would be affected with the with the boards up if it's if the sound is bouncing off and echoing it up I don't know any of that stuff so um if if it's a something that is determination I would recommend maybe a sound expert involved I mean I if I could also just say though the the ice rink is not a part of this application there's nothing but the chill the chillers but the chillers are okay I'll ask question number three on that when you put in new chillers do you have to those chillers obviously deal with the ice are you going to have to put in new pipes underneath the um underneath the ice or is the old and how old are the current pipes to be able to have what it needs to do with the new chillers they were replaced I want to say three years ago the two two years ago all the pipes under the rink which was a significant project I think so yeah they there's no need to replace those they're still those were done with a with a permit from the city I was not inv was not involved at this time but I would say imagine almost certain the contractor would have had to have gotten a permit I would hope so okay just asking the question as to because then you know if you had to replace those that then the whole X ring would be in it to do the chillers right and so I'm trying to trying to get to the bottom of it understand so just any other questions from the experts yep yes sir from the expert back to the arit okay back to the architect I appreciate that want to get all that out of the way good oh okay we got more more info the chillers were put in last year these aren't new different chillers that were putting in here they're they're ex being relocated relocating from one place to another CU right now it's right against the they're being moved yes yes they're being okay before before they're the same equipment that's there now yes so if we listen to them we're hearing what we're going to hear just in a different location correct so okay so chairman before we go back to the so zambon add a question except for when it goes from the maintenance garage to being driven to the ice correct correct so really zimon is not added the question because it is being used outside of the ice rink to go from the garage to the house to the rink and then the noise is still there whether it's on the ice rink or being driven from the garage to the ice skating rink so I think it is kind of relevant to to the discussion about noise am I wrong you and I agree anybody else will again I think when you hear from the landscape architect you'll see that there's significant Landscaping that should buffer any of the uh noise um I have some other questions to related to not the Zamboni but are you all right are we working on him or are we working on the architect uh I guess just one for you do you know how many members you have now since we don't know how many you have in 1991 just trying to we have have 350 give or take a couple regular members okay and that's family member is like family so a member is an individual but there's yeah there's a family with yes great thanks does that increase for the hockey season though is there hockey hockey memberships we do have a limited number of hockey memberships that are renewed annually um I'll have to see my notes if I have the the numbers on that okay they're obviously seasonal be above the 350 though or would that it would be above the three it would be incremental to the 350 but we the hockey membership they're used to fill slots on team it's not it's not the core of the hockey operation that's it's designed for the membership of Beacon Hill question okay is there majority of your members there for hockey I mean part playing the I mean playing hockey or having a part of the hockey program well people join Beacon Hill for various reasons that is the unique asset that is at Beacon Hill is the hockey rank the next closest one would be Essex hunt in the Bedminster area um but people Everyone joins has different motivations obviously we have the skating program also there's the pool rackets um but the Beacon Hills policy is to to guarantee a spot on a team for any child or adult member that just trying an idea of the use of of Pat's house just you know is it most like three and a half three months out of the Year basically and majority of the members are participating in the hockey program that that they are using that facility Well so the use of Pat's house that that for hockey activities the players will usually get changed in the locker rooms inside the carriage house and Pat's house is used typically by the families who are there to watch who want to stay warm and watch the kids play um way back in my ancient history I used to have and I don't know if this disqualifies me but it shouldn't um you used to have uh the Downtown Association all had dining me memberships for launches uh do you still have those and would they be able to utilize some of these new facilities do you still have and I don't know if we do have dining members but as the name suggests the scope of that membership is very limited to dining so so the answer is no that's above the 350 correct it's roughly next another 100 of these limited classes of membership that have limited access to the facilities Beyond dining but if they happened to show up and wanted to go out to Pet's house and watch a hockey game they they could go watch a hockey game in the same way that my in-laws the kids grandparents could come watch a hockey game if they choose chose to yes yeah but that that may increase the use of the restaurants downstairs the new the new dining areas I not really beyond anything we do currently I wouldn't expect because we have dining in in the carriage house now Pat's house will not have dining it's it's just a Ming facility it'll just be a nicer one I'm thinking of the uh you went through you went through a number of places that were now a new bar and a new dining area so I'm thinking of that more than more than Pat's house there is an existing bar and dining correct and the car now yeah yep in there okay any other questions for the club okay can we go back to the architect yes okay pardon but got that out of way back to back to architecture um one of the primary concerns is impacts to the Residential Properties yeah I'm sure you're aware of that so the question as it relates to P's house is how you're going to mitigate light impacts so the the lighting will be on timer similar to the lighting that's overhead so will be controlled that way it also have sensors um also the light levels will be fairly low um in there and the with the new landscaping and the distance back of 170 ft from the street um we feel that it's going to be a low impact to the actual Neighbors on that side and it'll also be controlled with sensors and timers anything with the glass oraz we could we could explore that um just we don't know the I'm sure we the yeah obviously I'm just thinking you know second floor illuminated at whatever time of night I know it's you close it what 10 p.m. everyone's out okay um as far as I guess what you could do with the windows would it be a film or type of glass or what would your recommendation be um I'd have to look into it it most likely be a film but I'm not sure what would be the best for that instance usually we're trying to block light the other way from coming in not going out right going yeah yeah yeah final question would be are there going to be any audio system improvements to the outdoors to the outdoors uh whatever is existing is going to remain so nothing proposed no that's it for me Mr chair okay Carl nothing more board members actually have a question for Mr Paul um we've talked about elevated dexs how do the cover paos on the second floor count for f do they if they're not in closed they wouldn't count okay questions from that side I have two questions go ahead um one was your a question about Pat's house or was it about the M the carriage house that patio it would apply to both because I was actually wondering that same question with respect to the square footage of Pat's house like initially when it was calculated you know whatever um was 1120 sare ft that's the that's the building the ground floor and then when you add in the second floor how how many you know what is that foot uh because I I feel like that's sort of um not not might not be represented here because it looks like we're just going up 55 Square ft but we're actually adding a whole second floor of usable space right where there was like basically a little porch there before so the uh the new uh roof deck is 360 ft give or take and the new uh addition on the second floor is about 885 Square ft okay so plus 885 okay so what sorry not I just give you a little more information the existing second floor is um 155 ft okay yeah um what is the um capacity of people in those two floors Force um don't have that in front of me I know we're we're keeping with co- compliance for it well I'm asking because there was something about the fire code not being required for an accessory structure and I think that's because we're assuming an accessory structure is a drive is a garage and nobody's spending a lot of time in their garage but now you have a lot of people in this accessory structure right and you have a fireplace in there and you have now extra people in there cuz yeah who doesn't want to go look at it the second floor they're not going to be in the carriage house they're now going to be in Pat's house more people viewing there and I think that that fire um you know mitigation is is super important you're going to have a lot of people in there right we're going to comply with what the building department but but I but the way that you addressed it was that there's no code right now it doesn't apply because it's an accessory structure and I feel like that I would like to see something addressed and not sort of this was so yeah know complying with something that there's no rules for yet but acknowledging that we're going to have a lot of people in this building so it's not really an accessory structure it maybe by definition of what the building is but the use of it is an actual building structure not like a garage with people in it I just think that this we need to hear some address you know little bit about that um the way we calculated it was with an assembly space so this was is building code not zoning ordinance that we were referring to for uh sprinkler coverage so given the assembly use and the amount of square footage in the construction type were within those limits of the building code were within the limits to not have a sprinkler system that's what I was referring to so it wasn't accessory structure it was assembly space actually that we we used in our calculations so that's what we're discussing with the fire department um with the way it's built now and with the code compliance in an assembly space will they deem it acceptable for no sprinkler so we're going to have that conversation with them and we'll comply with what they suggest for clarifications have they deemed it necessary for the sprinkler would you comply um and it's for clarity for the fire department to declare that not us we we'd have to explore it because of the difficult nature of doing that and piping that through the actual site extremely difficult we'd have to explore that okay so you're not compl you're not agreeing to comply with it at this point correct okay any other questions yeah yeah can you um so you're using that space as an assembly use does it need need to meet ADA requirements then so it has an equal viewing space uh the lower floor is the Upper Floor that's the same use and the lower floor is Ada accessible so because has an equal use so you don't need to meet a no Tech I'm the wheelchair and I want to go to the second floor I can't technically not no and can you go back to a11 your drawing sure I'm not sure I quite understood that that drawing lost our connection here well it didn't show a garage for the Zamboni oh uh we're keeping the zambon the same place that's parked now I thought you said there was a bay for it in the house in the carriage house this is theage show a garage door for it it only showed an act man door unless that man door was in the garage door and I just didn't yeah so there's a man so if you look so currently the zambon is parked here in the maintenance facility we're going to keep it there right and there's the overhead door here mhm and then there's this large overhead door here for the Gators and all those those pieces of equipment to be parked inside here so they're not parked outside can you go to A1 now sure maybe I missed it maybe it's just me here you go maybe I'm getting old so this is the existing door okay with the man door okay so that's the garage door that's existing yep that that's where the zambon is going to be parked and then the Gators and other equipment use this new door here it's just my eyes I thought that was just just a entrance door and we're not we're not using that as an erass door either it's just just an access door but that building going to be fully sprinklin yeah okay any other questions from the board any questions from the public for the architect questions from the public seeing none sorry question questions for the architect from based on his testimony okay seeing none uh next witness is the traffic engineer Craig caroy at the end of the hearing I work around it there all right if you could please raise your right hand do you swear from the testimony you're about to give this matters the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth yes I do please state your name spell your last name sure my name is Craig Parago p e r e g o y thank you can you briefly describe your background and experience for the board uh sure I have a bachelor's degree in civil engineering from Virginia Tech I'm a licensed professional engineer in New Jersey I've been working as a traffic engineer for 24 years now I've testified pretty much on a nightly basis including here in Summit many times as a expert in traffic engineering any questions from the board would you like to accept them once again questions on credentials no please proceed uh what were you requested to do in Your Capacity as a traffic engineer with regard to this application and how did you prepare for that commission sure um I was asked to review the the site plan the site layout as a um referencing vehicular and pedestrian circulation take a look at the parking Supply traffic impacts and just a a general assessment of the uh overall development program so obviously I've been visited the site worked with the project team reviewed the plans reviewed the the the city's review letters uh and made assessments based on you know what's actually happening in Bas on it data which is what we as Traffic Engineers utilize it's uh more generically when we don't know the operation here we do yeah it's pretty nice color one that's okay um can you describe for the board the existing conditions as they relate to off street parking and on-site circulation sure uh as you heard for there uh 74 parking spaces on the site now uh the appr there was an approval granted in 2020 that referenced 72 parking spaces I don't know where the two extra parking spaces came from but but there are 74 parking spaces now uh you heard a lot from the engineer earlier I won't completely go reiterate everything he said but there are some challenges on the site the way it's laid out that upper campus or the the bottom of the page there uh there's a row of unstriped parking so you know we say you can fit however many vehicles in there but if everybody doesn't Park neatly then that's not happening it's a a narrow drive a and a little bit of an awkward configuration with those two non- compliant Ada spaces uh the lower campus again there's angled parking where it's not a one-way Drive aisle which is a traffic engineer that drives me crazy that's completely uh not not something you should have because if I'm going to visit this facility and I'm parked in an angled parking space and I want to leave I assume that I can only go One Direction and then you hit a dead end so that's being solved for here uh in two ways we're putting perpendicular parking spaces with an appropriate Drive aisle so you know it's two-way traffic and also providing that that drop off or that called the sacker uh turnaround space at the end um serves two purposes allows for a drop off you know somebody wants to drop off their kid with the hockey equipment and then go find a parking spot and also if you get a little greedy and try to get one of the better parking spaces and there isn't one available you're not stuck making a k turn you can use that Loop to turn back around so big big Improvement M ments uh on the site from a circulation perspective uh I I did take a look and and do my best to see if we could find any more parking or any more um little things and there's really not much without increasing the impervious coverage which we don't want to do and even then I I could maybe get two more parking spaces on there I don't think it will be worth uh the change especially considering that um prior testimony you heard was that the membership's not increasing the programming is not increasing this is all being done to improve existing deficiencies uh you you know it's an aging facility so obviously they want to uh um upgrade those existing facilities to make it better experience for the membership and they're doing that on the site with that improved parking and circulation I think I might have gone more than just your question but go ahead that's okay um and then you referenced the prior approval um what effect does that determination have on the current application yeah so essentially you know 2020 the board approved what's out there today with 72 parking spaces so then you know that that sort of becomes the number number that is uh was deemed adequate by this board we're increasing the square footage which based on your ordinance at one per 250 square ft creates an increase in parking uh requirement of 18 parking spaces now one per 250 is that's pretty high that's a retail type of uh parking ratio um we're providing additional spaces we're actually providing um eight additional spaces nine if you count the the EV credit that that we get the state but we are providing eight additional spaces again for the same membership same programming everything's the same you you saw the architex presentation almost all the expansions are are it's sort of back a house type of things the better locker rooms the expanded kitchen uh better accommodations instead of having people squeezing in the Pat's house there's nothing here that's creating in Mass more parking demand but the ordinance requirement is based on square footage now I look at as I mentioned before the it uh that's the The Institute of Transportation engineers and they give me some guidance on you know we use it mostly for traffic generation but also for parking and uh the it for an athletic club as this indicates a a Peak parking demand of 0.12 spaces per member and you heard there's 350 of the full members and an additional 100 the number that I was given was 456 total when you add up all those members that comes to 55 spaces uh with that it number we have 82 so realistically based on the experience that they're having they have enough parking and based on that empirical data also to back that up that there's no parking provided um and then using sheet five of 10 of the engineering plans can you describe for the board the proposed off street parking and onsite circulation plan yeah and I think the engineer went through it again I won't rehash it too much but this the upper parking area we're providing a conventional uh I would I would call Drive aisle whereas right now these spaces are unstriped and there's sort of an awkward I guess drop off loop with two parallel Ada spaces so that's a big Improvement and I think really the biggest Improvement and the focus of this is the the lower campus like getting rid of that two-way aisle with angled parking the dead end k- turn area providing a nice drop off area which is like I said it's good for if somebody gets too greedy there's no parking available they don't have to do a kurn if if you're unfamiliar with the site and you're directed the wrong way you don't have to do a k- turn uh it can be used for pickup and drop off not only for hockey but you know Uber and lift and things like that if somebody's coming for an event and you know especially if there's alcohol involved that's obviously a good option um so a lot a lot of lot of benefits to that and a lot better than sort of just this empty SE of pavement that people are using to turn around in today um and what impact if any will the proposal have on off off-site parking or traffic on surrounding roadways yeah n i mean again the the membership is what drives the parking and traffic that's not changing uh I I I mentioned the it data for the parking and there also is for traffic the membership doesn't change so there'd be no increase if I use the square footage rates that they give uh the maximum weekday increase in trip generation in a peak hour would be 28 cars and 37 uh 37 uh 28 trips and 37 trips on a weekend uh what's typically considered a significant increase in traffic is 100 trips so well below that threshold that you'd even notice if there was an increase in traffic again with the knowing the operation here we know that there isn't going to be and the programming is staying the same but just from a empirical standpoint if I was looking at this Clean Slate didn't know who was going here that would be the increase in traffic that I would forecast that would be minimal great I don't have any other questions gentlemen Carl so the layout compared to what's there right now I agree with this testimony better functional better than the angled wrongway parking aspect so uh for what's going on right next to where all the improvements are going on I agree with with with testimony add for traffic engineer okay Tom no questions okay from the board questions uh I do um so uh I've I've been here for hockey games so I know what that flow looks like during uh drop off and um one of the things that I noticed like even when I I'm not a member there but I go to the skate shop and most a lot of the cars are SUVs right they're Expeditions they're 20 21 ft long um the parking spaces that you have shown there are about 16 and 1 12 feet on one side and on the other side they're like both just over 18 or 18 and a half so it's not really reflective of sort of what I'll call a hockey car so my two question and the EV space that you have um do you think that that's actually going to be usable space because it's only 13 1/2 ft where you enter the curve right if I scaled it off um I'm drawing but I'm just trying to like is that going to actually be a functional space because if you I'm envisioning an SUV large SUV going around that it's a very tight Circle I did it in my Ford Expedition my Explorer today it's not an expedition and I'm just trying to make sure that that is enough space to get a car there and those cars around yeah oh AB mean these are standard size parking space is not it's if you look that the line on the left is only like 13 1/2 ft the straight part before you get to the curve where you're going into the circle yeah let me walk over here so I can see what you're are you you're talking about this how this is just a little bit short yeah yeah you know what and it maybe it makes sense to actually stripe that out it it's it should be a full length space that it's it's just because the the way the circle ties in you see how here it ties in evenly so this we could either have the curb tie in evenly or just stripe it just to keep these people over but that's that's a normal size parking space okay but I think it probably should be made a full part like to look like a parking space yeah I I see I I didn't know what you meant but I see what you're saying now I think it's just the way it's depicted but yeah that that'll be a full sizee typ parment space the applicant agrees to do that yeah and then in the the space in between the par because now the parking is straight as opposed to when it was I think the thing about when it was angled I don't know if you had more or less or it's the same space I think you may have had more driveway space we actually increase the drive aisle the drive aisle is like cuz I that's I have that like 16 and 1/2 ft right so I guess during like drop off this this dotted line is where it is ends today so you can see it's going yeah but but they were angled so they didn't come out as far into the road like you know when you straighten it out comes out one right right right I'm not sure that it's like actually a net the the in between Lane um how do you propose like during drop offs just because uh there used to be more space for that drop off and you would see SUVs sort of lined up there um to manage flow of traffic just it seems kind of tight for me like one car can go in or out you know um compared to they used to more cars that fit in that during a drop off now it seems like it's sort of one in and one out no this gives more room and is better this this the way it is now it's not is not really wide enough to for two-way this is a two-way aisle and you have this whole Loop that can be us can fit there during the drop off uh I'd say at least six around the outside of that thing yeah so this and then and this is wide enough for two two-way traffic this is going to be a better this is better than what it is today it'll be easier I know it's kind of hard to visualize on the screen but it is cuz I was just trying to scale off on this and it looks like you know what the width is the distance between the parking spaces the end of the spaces 24 ft 9 by 18 it's it's same size parking spaces and drive a that you'd see at at not the you know the left and the right the travel the path of travel 24 ft okay cuz when I scaled it off it looked like it was less I had yeah it looked like it was actually less than that maybe in yeah now the idea is to make it a you know conventional parking aisle like you'd see at any commercial facility out there which right now is not is it your testimony there's enough space there to make that work 100% yes absolutely more than enough like I said it's the same dimensions that would be in in a in a Walmart parking lot well on this it's very more than adequate can I ask a question along with that way so you have the cars going in so you have like say like a little kids hockey so everybody's getting dropped off the cars are going in how are the cars getting out of the parking spots if I mean it's going to be backed up just I mean it seems like you H you know could drop that a kid off and they're getting out with nothing in the hand they have to open the back of the I I would guess you have to open the back of the trunk get your hockey bag out and it's it's a and the idea is all that's going to happen in this circle you're saying if if there's but there's going to make cars waiting to because there be on well yeah I mean then they have to wait to back out if somebody wanted to back out at the same time that I just have to wait till the line moved up I mean I can't imagine now I I haven't been I I wasn't involved in this during a hockey season but I can't imagine how it's working now it's way tighter than but like said these you know we've seen the hockey car they're they're hu people you know have a couple kids playing hockey they're driving huge cars yep 9 by8 spaces are big enough for the all vehicles on the road um can you also um earlier um the engineer mentioned the employee parking and where did that I did it move did it disappear it's well a this is generally used by employees these spaces but I think we were talking about the unstriped spaces there's a few uh unstriped spaces where we don't want people to think they can park there that's kind of the idea of leaving them unstrip the employees use them and they know where to park their cars I think there's two parallels along here and then there's a few yeah there it says five unstriped three unstriped so the idea is don't don't invite a guest to park there it's it's for the employees okay so that parking lots for the employees and then the non striped spots yeah well these eight these 14 from what I understand the employees tend to park there they're not restricted to employees these unstriped ones are the intent is for them just to be for employees so so how many employees are there a typical shift I guess that might be the general manager I don't know M so if there's 10 if there's 10 employees you don't know changing well I don't know what the answer is and that's why I'm asking how many employees are there during an average shift I'm not sure I'll I'll text you because if there's answer you know during an average day if there's 12 that's 12 Spots You're losing unless you require them to park that's in the employees spot unless you require them it's they not there's no increase in the number of employees we're incre number of parking spaces but not the number of employ no I get that so this application makes it better whatever the answer is in terms of the number can you um explain the the driveway that goes by the clubhouse with this new parking um why did you keep the driveway there or you know would it be an option to just add some more parking spaces if you had them along the curve like that kind of like what you have at the bottom you know this this lot you're talking about no by the main club house FR door the where it down here yeah so in instead of having that straight like could you have gotten more part does it make sense to consider putting you know to a che you closer to the number that would be you know required um instead of having it in there put it where that driveway that goes right up up against the house it seems like you would be able to get more parking spaces in there and then your um Ada spaces would be really right close to the building if you made that oh you mean put the pull the like pull in here and then you have this would become an island just seems like you could fit more spaces around that curve I I was going to ask the exact opposite question maybe but again like the same the same situation like I don't you know we don't want to we don't really need the extra parking necessarily but we want to provide a better layout it happens to give us more parking spaces I I you know I looked at you know how can we reconfigure this this there's nothing that's not going to create a D it's worth I guess I'm trying to see if we can get is there a way to get to closer to the number of spaces that are required not substantially I mean like I said every way you look at it I mean maybe there's a way to do with a lot more improvements and you know unnecessarily two or three more spaces which I don't think is going to make any difference we're adding we're adding we're keeping the existing operation and adding more parking spaces so it's going to be an improvement we're we not finding another 50 spaces or whatever it is on here there just it's not going to happen without well that's not going to happen at all but you're not going to find a substantial or meaningful number of spaces without compromising the layout or adding unnecessary impervious so as long as we're talking about that driveway are you going to allow parking there or are you not going to allow parking there along like parallel parking uh I mean it's not I don't know with the fire Department would say about it if if there was a kind of why I'm asking a big event or something and they were okay with it I guess I mean it's wide enough that you could have cars park there but there's no intention to do that so so that goes back to kind of my question about the employees I i' like to do see the seed seed engineering there's 350 members if half of them show up for an event that's aund something cars where do they all Park oh if they have it if there's like a big event they the they can increase uh with valet parking they've done that and then they use offsite parking resources if there's a big event like that it's not they're not they're not going to show 7 cars on this property I was there for an event a couple weeks ago yeah and that part that main entrance was parked to the left and were parked everywhere yeah so I know from experience that that driveway gets packed yeah and that's I mean they still could that that still could be used as probably a valet situation they still could I think that's something that should be explored at the'll emergency services in town but now there'll be nine less cars not in a parking space I mean you know it's none of none of that's going to change those events those things aren't going to change but we're still adding parking I I had some slightly different questions about parking and it was just counting um the memo with the original submission wasn't numbered I went ahead and number numbered it um so on page 7 it said you were adding 11 spaces but also going from 74 to 79 spaces on page 14 of that memo it said the net increase was from 74 to 81 spaces um and now the engineering I'm I'm on page five of 10 which is consistent with April it says 83 spaces I've counted it many times I can only get to 82 because you get a bonus for the EV space the EV the so one EV space counts as two spaces One Carpet okay so this in 2020 this board approved 72 spaces and said 72 spaces was enough for this exact operation I know there's 74 now I don't know how that I don't know what happened in the five years I don't know if there's two extra or somebody didn't count right then and now we're going to 82 now we're really going to 82 right but technically 83 because the EV space but there'll be 8 there will be 82 cars that can right okay cuz there were just a lot of numbers in all of this inform Chang from when the original application was submitted and there is one less of the spaces is down in the lower area by the hockey and the paddle courts um then there used to be I think 30 and now there's 29 down here and obviously you've added spaces up here so it's sort of Shifting the balance a little bit too that's also to make those spaces compliant so just the just to clarify that um what was memorialized it was memorialized in 2020 it was really the 1991 zoning what zoning passed in 1991 was memorialized in 2020 for the parking spaces is that correct so it's really a 91 there was an application in the way it's written here is like it's it makes it look like what was passed in 1991 wasn't memorialized until 201 20 and I feel like there there was a an application before the board in 2020 for the M clubhouse that needed a variance for off street parking yeah okay so 7 and 72 was approved CU it it's the building Edition is zb1 19-1 1991 so and then you know that's a 2019 2019 got it so was approved all right I thought that was the year 1991 that's trying to clarify thanks I have a question about the um EV spot is there hours that you can be charging the car is it's something somebody could go park their car overnight and leave it there um I mean does the that would be up to the the club I but doesn't shut off don't shut off they stay on all night long yeah generally but I don't think the club would allow somebody to leave their car there overnight there are EV stations that can require credit card and things like that so I don't know what they'll install I don't believe the club permits overnight parking maybe the own drives a Tesla though [Music] exception when do they make the decision that okay we got to go to um valet parking and you know what what what brings that decision along and at what level of usage I I asked a similar question I mean there may they may have more specifics but it's just know they know which events it's usually not close like day-to-day operation they have more than enough parking when there's going to be an event that requires valet it's they know they're not going to there's not going to be enough parking I don't know what they're internal thresholds or numbers are but you know they're aware okay any other questions any questions from the public for this witness questions only from the public I don't see any and now I look at the clock and we normally you still have one more to go two a wrap up landscape architect which should be fairly plan and then you have the plan uh board members I'm I'm seeing you all shaking your heads or a number of you going this um Mr chairman I would just say one statement given that we've had a number of interest from the public that make sure we allocate enough time for comments um so whether we want to hear somebody fast or not we're not going to hear anything fast we're going to hear this properly to give them enough time yes so that we're not pinching pennies later on no we're not going to they'll get the time they need to make the comments they wish to make um what are we looking at if we adjourn this um our agendas are pretty packed uh but I guess we can do November 19th is that a date you can sure okay anybody U is it okay so we would need a motion to um Carry This to November 19th without further notice and you're going to grant us the time to act right just waving the time frame for the board to act thank that's what I asked okay is there a motion moved I'll second sorry the motion was from Miss to correct and the second one Mr [Applause] Nelson Mr Nelson yes Miss Don yes Miss toad yes Miss Cho this is to vote to to car to caright yes okay Mr feskin yes Mr Chuli yes chairman Steiner yes the motion carries okay um we're going to welcome back our uh our members that have recused themselves and have been very kindly sitting and waiting and we have some more business to take care of um first one is a resolution for extension at 14 wi J did you which one of you want to explain [Music] it okay yeah so the resolution for 14 Winchester is requesting an extension they had actually obtained a building permit previously in within the required time frame under the original resolution uh due to financial constraints and complications that that they couldn't complete the project the building permit lapsed within the one year it was it was granted so now it's about 6 months after that laps they're coming in to ask for another extension um until May of next I believe it's until May of next year yeah um and they anticipate completing everything getting a new permit completing everything by that point so they started no work at all I I'm not sure I assume because the building permit was deemed lapsed and revoked um no at least no significant work was complete so you said six months from when it was approved that they came back to ask for they they obtained a building permit it went a year and then that building permit lapsed so it was almost two years after the resolution was granted so they they got it they got the billing permit within the oneyear period and then one year on top of that it lapsed and that was in May of this year and they wait until now to come back to say yes they may not have wanted to proceed with it they may be looking at it but extending it is in line with what we've been approving recently but even if they wait that long to we have done approvals of extensions after the fact in the past just for reference and and it I mean it may be that it took until now to get their financial Ducks lined up in a row and know they could go forward that is what was indicated in the letter that's what the letter indicated it was challenging to figure out exactly what was indicated in that letter we all know who wrote it lawyers unless there's any questions can we just motion so we would look for a motion to approve the resolution uh extending this all got I get so moved so moved okay Mr Yugo yes chairman Steiner yes Mr Nelson yes Miss Don yes Mr Kieran yes yes VI never mind Miss toad yes Miss Cho yes the motion carries so the next one we have is we have one more resolution yes we have a resolution for memorialization 71 Pine grve yes so that's 71 Pine grve Avenue Christian and Katie M McCormick zb- 24-22 51 block 3102 lot 16 our eligible voting members for that one are chairman Steiner Vice chairman lyit Mr Nelson Miss Don Miss to miss Cho and miss Mr feskin do we have a motion so moved second I'm sorry who second it it's on okay chairman Steiner yes Mr Nelson yes Miss Don yes Miss toes yes Miss chfo yes and Mr feskin yes the motion carries and we have two sets of minutes yes so we have two sets of minutes our first set is from September 4th and we will exclude the members who are excuse that evening which were Mr Kieran Mr Yugo and Mr Malay do we have a motion so move second okay all those in favor I any opposed okay the motion carries and then the next set of minutes are for September 16th and we will exclude the members who were um absent that evening which were Mr Yuko and Miss Zan do we have a motion moved and a second second okay all those in favor I I any opposed okay the motion carries and our next meeting is October 21st y so thank you all appreciate it motion to adjourn all those in favor please leave everyone e e e e e e