##VIDEO ID:VL91b5-NVJA## e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e good evening and welcome to the November 4th 2024 meeting of the city of summit Zoning Board of adjustment my name is Joe Steiner and I chair the board please rise and join us in the Pledge of Allegiance I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indidual andice in accordance with New Jersey statute 10 colon 4-10 adequate notice of this meeting has been provided to a newspaper of record and has been posted here in City Hall this meeting is a Judicial proceeding any questions or comments must be limited to the issues that are relevant to what the board May legally consider in reaching a decision and a quorum appropriate to a Judicial hearing must be maintained at all times for the benefit of the interested public this meeting is being live streamed to the city's YouTube page and also being broadcast on summit's governmental Channel which is Comcast channel 34 and Verizon channel 30 a transcript of this meeting is also being taken using the video and audio so we need all speakers to utilize one of the microphones here in the room please note that the fire exits are to my right and your left and at the back of the room where you entered the city also has a listening system to assist the hearing impaired if anyone needs hearing assistance please obtain the system at the Das and return it here thereafter Miss suio would you please call the role of the members sure chairman Steiner here Vice chairman lyit is excused Mr Yugo here Mr Nelson here miss Don here Mr Mr Kieran is expected but not yet present Mr Malle here miss to is excused Miss chfo is excused Mr fkins is excused Mr Chuli here you have a quarum you may proceed thank you Andy ball sitting to my right is the zoning board's attorney he will be advising the board members on matter of Law and is the um key interface with the applicant's attorney Mr ball does not vote on the applications Stephanie suos who called the role is a city employee and as the zoning board secretary she works with applic I just want to note for the record that M Mr Kieran just came in welcome uh Miss suos who just told us all that uh works with the applicants on putting their uh agendas on putting their applications together and planning our agendas as well as keeping our meeting minutes she also does not vote on the applications also present are our experts who are hired annually by the board to provide input tonight we have Marine rafy from uh Coler Engineering also Ed snikes from bures Associates our board planner these experts are seated at the table to the right of the board and the Public's left they do not vote on the applications our board consists of seven Reg members and up to four alternates all members can participate in the hearings but a maximum of seven can vote most applications require a simple majority to be approved but before we enter into executive session and vote on that application uh we will advise the applicants as well as the public how many votes are required we only have one case on our agenda tonight and that case will begin with the applicants attorney giving us an overview of the application process so far and the variances that are required when this uh these application this application was put in it was put in as two separate applications it has been combined and uh this may be the subject to of multiple motions during executive session so uh it doesn't mean that everything will be uh everything doesn't have to be decided in one vote it can be split up it can be certain parts may be a certain parts may not we'll see how that goes after we hear the testimony hear from the public and uh hear from our attorney on uh various uh conditions and then have our executive session um once the board and the members have completed their questioning the public uh has a CH chance to ask questions now that is not the time to tell us what you think about the case that will come a little bit later uh so when uh an when a member has when a person has testified a professional you can ask questions but again don't ask uh don't don't tell us what you think um all right we want you to uh when you come to the podium we need you to spell your name uh State your last name spell your last name and provide your address again that's for the court reporter to get the uh public record after the witness and all the witnesses have been heard now the members of the audience have their second opportunity to speak and at that time you can express your opinion positive or negative about the application uh and at that point you will be sworn in uh then the public hearing is closed and we enter into the aforementioned executive session where the board members will then discuss the case and vote you'll be able to listen to our executive session but you will not normally be able to participate in our discussion our City Zoning officers have asked that we remind all applicants that they must carefully read the resolution that documents the zoning board's uh decision and pay particular attention to the conditions contained in the resolution including Landscaping plans uh and any other documents that may be required because you have uh an attorney with you tonight and we only have one case I'm going to skip most of that uh but failure to satisfy condition in the resolution will result in a delay uh in your application and will cause extra work for the City Zoning officer uh the resolution documenting the board's decision is normally available a month after the case is heard and after we decide the case tonight's uh case is the canra country club and as I said we have two parts to it and uh we're ready to proceed and their attorney Hillary is here please good evening uh Hillary s from Dempsey Dempsey and Shen representing the applicant canra Country Club um they're the owner of property located at 30 Wallace Road Block 901 Lot 1 in Summit and 1108 Mars Turnpike block 5304 lot one in Milburn Township the improvements proposed are located entirely on the summit property which is located in the golf Zone Cano Brook originally filed two separate applications one seeking approval for the expansion of the second floor of an existing building with 12 dormatory style bedrooms two bathrooms and a lounge for employee housing which is a use that has been previously approved by this board for this building at this site uh the second application is for the installation of two 2,000g above ground fuel storage tanks one for gasoline and one for diesel where two underground tanks one is 2,000 gallons and one is 6,000 gallons existing exist on the site um and are at the end of their useful life these two applications have been Consolidated and require the following relief preliminary and final major site plan approval a height and story variance for the existing accessory building 15 ft and one story is permitted 34.14 ft and two stories is existing and there will be a reduction in height to 3387 Ft and two stories is proposed a use variance to permit the expansion of the employee housing which again is a use that was approved at the site in a 2005 approval by this Zone board a modification of a condition of that approval which permitted three employees to reside in the subject building which was based on what was proposed at the time of the approval and finally a use variance to permit above ground storage tanks as an accessory use where they where they are not permitted in the zone presentation will begin with the applicants representative Albert costantini followed by the architect for the employee housing project Wayne Jax the civil engineer Kyle Smith the architect and expert with regard to the fuel storage project Jas vender R Johnny and ending with the planner McKinley Mars questions of the attorney seeing none why don't you call your first wit us okay Mr costantini if you could please raise your right hand do you swear from testimon about to give in this matters the truth the hold nothing but the truth I do please state your name spell your last name Albert costantini c s t n TI N I thank you and just as operator right not as a expert correct thanks um what is your occupation I am the general manager Chief Operating Officer of canra Country Club and what qualifications do you bring to this job I bring uh 30 plus years of private club management um and have in both my current position in 13 years have presented before this board and the Milburn Milburn board uh for multiple projects uh that required different approvals um and in your capacity is Chief op operating officer and general manager are you authorized to speak on behalf of the applicant I am authorized and and responsible for this petition perfect and um can you just briefly describe uh canra Country Club Cano Country Club was founded in 1901 um as a private country club we are a family oriented Club um we offer golf on both sides of the highway we have pool facilities paddle tennis pickle ball regular tennis uh and various other uh sporting aspects as well as a robust dining program for our members great and can you explain to the board what is being proposed as part of this application using the aerial map um that would asked be marked A1 and the reason why the club is seeking these improvements uh take the portable microphone with you and let's hope yeah just please turn it [Music] on okay well both projects are within this dotted rectangle here uh the first is the renovation of the second floor of a a building uh for employee housing it will accommodate 12 rooms uh all double occupancy for 24 additional beds that will allow the club to enter into the international labor pool with H2 BS and J1 Visa employees uh and this is in an effort to augment staff uh that we've been having issues with for several years trying to um trying to hire people local uh local individuals to fill these jobs This Is Not Unusual for the private club industry to enter into the international labor pool the second project is uh right in this location as Hillary explained the two above ground uh fuel storage tanks uh we have been encouraged by our insurance company as well as the D and EPA uh that the tanks have reached the end of their useful life and that is all three of those organizations wishes that we put in above ground tanks for various reasons uh safety ease of Maintenance um being able to reduce the amount of uh fuel we held on site um we're going from one 6,000g tank to 2,000 because we just don't need the the size of that six gallon tank any longer the above tank above ground tanks will also be much easier to monitor uh because we'll be able to do visual monitoring as well as the electronic uh safety monitoring that comes with the tanks um they they do come in in various sizes as I said we are reducing the size of one of the tanks from 6,000 to 2,000 gallons uh safety the above ground storage tanks again um much easier to maintain uh much easier even though they do come with their built-in uh security systems they're being able to view them on a daily basis to uh preempt any uh maintenance issues that may uh that may happen uh environmentally friendly uh they are designed as above ground tanks uh um the inground tanks have the potential to burst and have fuel leech into the ground system uh the above ground tanks will eliminate that and can you just uh tell the board the distance of the improvements to the property line so the employee housing we're looking at four approximately 473 uh feet to Wallace Road and approximately 1,000 49 ft to uh Woodland Avenue the fuel storage tanks 244 ft approximately to Wallace Road uh wait I'm going to correct you sorry 786 sorry 786 I'm looking at the wrong number there 786 to Wallace Road and 1,123 to Woodland Avenue okay and with regard to the um employee housing you said that it was a common practice for golf courses to have staff on site yes we we currently have um housing on the uh Milburn side for 12 uh clubhouse employees uh there are a number of clubs in our area that have uh both on Prop on premise and off- premise employee housing um clubs all around the country that are involved in the h2b and J1 program also take advantage of these programs um and is there a kitchen proposed uh there is not there's a common area that would have a refrigerator a sink and a lounge area uh but all uh employee meals uh happen at the clubhouse which is on the MB bur side uh staff will either use golf carts or Club transport to get from the summit side to the Milburn side for old meal periods um and with regards to the 2005 approval um that was limited to three employees do you know why there was that limitation uh we have three rooms uh on the lower level and and I believe the three uh three house uh housed employees was the limit given the three bedrooms that also has a refrigerator uh sink and a small common area and what are some of the reasons that um make having employe housing desirable uh certainly having having the staff on site makes it easy uh for the for the staff to get to and from work um public transportation in this area is not very accessible to the club uh certainly housing uh in this area is not very affordable for for staff so um having having the ability to have staff on site um does make it more um U EAS much more easier for them to to come uh come to work also makes it for the club easier for scheduling our our industry does a lot of what we call split shifts where they'll you know staff member will come in and work a lunch shift then go home and then come back and work a dinner shift having them stay on site makes it easier for them to to do those transitions to the different shifts and again you said um there's no kitchen so the meals are all served in the clubhouse the clubhouse on the milir side right so um what about parking are any of these employees that are coming here do they own vehicles are they driving to and from the site uh no given that uh this will be used primarily for uh International staff nobody will be coming with vehicles uh there might be bicycles involved with for Local transportation but all U all all Transportation requiring either mass transit or individual Autos uh would take place on the Milburn side U Uber and Lyft would be directed to pick up on the Milburn side and there is a public transit bus stop located near the Short Hills mall that currently several of our employees use that to get back and forth to the property um and would this employee housing just be for employees of canra Country Club employees only it wouldn't be used for uh member use it wouldn't be used for any private events uh it would be for staff only and can you just describe the process of who qualifies for the employee housing and the relationship of the employees to the club well the uh in the international uh realm it would be um all those everybody applying for an h2b Visa or a J1 Visa would be vetted uh we would do uh interviews with them uh prior to them being hired uh they are vetted by the different organizations that provide uh these uh employees to the various clubs around the country uh and they would be depending on the type of Visa anywhere from a six n or 12 month uh time frame that they would be employed by the club and so there are required background checks for these employees um what about any married couples or families do not um have not experienced this uh we not we don't look for families these are all individuals um most are are students in Hospitality programs overseas uh that are using this uh as far as um different types of of of credits for their for their degrees um and the current building does that have an alarm system detection system and sprinkler system it does have all three and the second floor would be sprinkled uh to code okay and what is stored in the um the maintenance portion that the maintenance Port portion on the lower level is um existing Grounds Maintenance equipment uh that is predominantly stored over the winter to keep it out of the weather uh during the course of the of the year uh there is some um some storage there as well there's no maintenance done in that building it is strictly storage and is there private security on the site we have 247 uh security Professional Security on the property great um and can you describe for the board the site circulation and what impact if any of the proposal will have on trip generation and on-site parking demand uh we don't anticipate any um additional on-site parking demand as I said earlier uh there will be no additional automobiles uh as a result of these employees um currently we have about 20 employees uh that either are already existing um employee housed or uh daily U Grounds Maintenance staff that work on the property that the existing parking does satisfy all of those needs uh all of the um access on this side of the property is through a gate on Wallace Road uh it opens at 5:30 in the morning for staff 6:00 uh for deliveries and it is closed by 9 9:30 uh nightly um we would anticipate really no change in flow of any sort of uh Supply traffic other than the um the vehicles transporting the fuel uh the fact that we will no longer have a 6,000g tank uh will uh allow for smaller uh smaller fuel tank trucks to be uh visiting the site um and the fuel deliveries are is it the same same as existing in terms of how many you're anticipating yes and smaller trucks smaller trucks okay um and what about deliveries for the employees that live on the site so uh FedEx um UPS all of those deliveries are accepted over on the Milburn side at the main Clubhouse and then staff is informed um existing on-site staff uh they're informed when their packages arrive and they pick them up at our front desk it would be the same program for for these these employees great and can you explain how the trash and recycling is stored and collected sure uh in the uh lower garage area uh we would keep trash receptacles that would be uh emptied as needed into larger dumpsters that are housed at the main uh um Grounds Maintenance buildings those trash uh pickups are scheduled regularly for for uh regular trash and on an as-needed basis for any um any recyclables so these um additional employees will not generate extra trips from garbage trucks or recycling trucks things like that okay um the board engineer asked about the concrete storage bins located on the site can you clarify for the engineer and members of the board what is stored in those storage bins yes we have three concrete storage bins uh located right behind the grounds maintenance facility here uh they are used for sand soil and mulch uh all all organic material that we use on the golf course so there's no salt that's stored no salt no okay um is there any substantial change to the existing lighting as part of this proposal um we don't anticipate any um any additional lighting other than some emergency lighting for the Emergency egress but I will defer to the engineer uh in his testimony for lighting perfect um and the planner's report references a gas pump um on sheet five of the engineers plan is this pump proposed to remain okay we have we actually have two pumps one gas and one diesel that we've been using for the existing tanks they will be removed and new pumps will be installed uh again one for each type of fuel um and did the club hold a neighborhood meeting in connection with the improvements proposed we did we sent out approximately 9095 invitations uh to the residents uh surrounding the summit property on October 16th scheduled at 7 pm by 7:45 only one neighbor had arrived uh with a couple of questions so we uh we ended the meeting at that point and were those questions related to this application they were not she had it was was a neighbor all the way up on bellw side of the property that asked different questions about um lawn maintenance perfect um did the club retain the services of experts to assist in the devel development preparation and presentation of this application we did um as you mentioned in your opening remarks uh Wayne Jax with the architectural firm Kyle Smith with the uh civil engineers we have uh jez vinder uh with the um with the fuel tanks and U McKinley M McKinley I'm very sorry McKinley Merz as far as our professional planner excellent I don't have any other questions uh before I go to them could you could you the Visa program yes sir for those that may not understand what it is um can you explain what that program is and how it works and where the approvals come from because I if I recall correctly there's been recently a lot of issues trying to uh get those approvals and uh let's take it from there cuz I've made have some follow-ups yes the federal government approves uh a certain amount of these visas on an annual basis uh they are opened up uh to the public uh for uh let's say in can Brook's uh case we would apply for X number of these visas and then uh we wait and find out how many we are approved for um a lot of the um visas that are approved for 12 months um clubs share those employees so Florida clubs who are on a different um time schedule as we are up here in the Northeast uh they would work in the winter our winter they'd be uh working in clubs down in Florida for the for their summer and then switch six months for us um the um the applicants um and we are as I said just getting into this program uh people coming in um under these programs apply uh for the Visas on their sides and then they are vetted uh through the government and and approved what would happen because I know this happened to the U to the Jersey Shore if none were approved I know we had that problem down in in the Jersey Shore a couple of years ago uh where would you get your employees from and would those employees then be utilizing this housing yes um on as I mentioned uh prior we have some housing on the Milburn side uh they are um us residents that we we hire from different areas um whether it be Newark Jersey City areas that that you know people apply for the jobs and then if we have housing available we would offer it to them um if we were unable to fill all the beds with with the international staff we would look to augment it with domestic staff okay um let's go to our experts questions from the there um no I have nothing m a few quick questions regarding the quantity of rooms or beds that you're asking for what drives that is that a specific requirement or need uh it's it's what we is not a requirement it's what we feel we would need um also the way the facility would be laid out it would allow us to do um coed housing which we currently do not have the ability uh to utilize I see um in the fueling op operations do you have sort of a best management practices or procedure set up in case there's spills and how that's handled yes we do we have uh we have a documented um emergency response uh package that the grounds maintenance crew uses uh in the event of any type of spill okay great um you had mentioned the storage of some equipment in the in the garage area I guess of the building itself identified that it's fully sprinkler any hazardous materials stored there like fertilizers or kept in a separate facility okay thank you very much F question okay questions from the board Tom yeah uh couple first for Miss Al great questioning of the first Witness by the way is there another witness who's better prepared to answer Landscaping screening questions yes okay the questions for you thank you for sh me around this afternoon um this morning um so a couple questions I guess I hadn't thought about what 12 bedrooms meant so that could be up to 24 People based on what you're saying they're all all doubles correct you anticipate that would be full full year round is that very seasonal it be more in the summer or I imagine you're dining all the year round but I know Golf and such as just the summer spring yes we we certainly have a peak season basically mid April through mid October uh where we would hope to have all 24 beds filled um depending on the length of the Visas of who we would be able to hire um some of those beds could be 9 months some could be six months some could be 12 I really wouldn't be able to say exactly how many at this point until I knew what we were approved for okay and I don't know if there's a standard for this and I try to phrase this delicately is two bathrooms enough for potentially 24 people I me assume that means two showers and yeah there are multiple showers and facilities in both restrooms and one would be dedicated uh women and one would be dedicated for men okay and I noticed while I was there today that aside from the the existing structure with the three three rooms there's what looks like a house there correct what is that used for that's used for grounds maintenance staff uh that currently live on property there's six bedrooms in that house okay all right um got some other questions but I'll save with those other Witnesses thank you okay um I I have just two questions one and I'm not sure if this is right um so in 2005 you were approved to have three employees live in that building somewhere in here did it say that there are six are living there now or did I misread that no that's the other the building he's just talking about the yellow house okay okay and then um you mentioned that um you know not just across the country but locally a lot more clubs are moving to this can you give examples of very local clubs that are are doing this um baltis has several employee housing areas both on site and uh individual housing offsite Mars county has just purchased houses offsite uh they do uh housing um uh Spring Brook Country Club uh has has employee housing um is that offsite or onsite Spring Brook I believe is offsite a lot of a lot of facilities don't have the room or the ability to to turn any any existing buildings into employee housing like we we have this empty second floor of this building that side yeah I a couple of questions on the the fuel deliveries all those uh fuel deliveries going off wro correct and um you say uh you're reducing uh the gasoline or the diesel storage from six to two that would be the the gasoline the gasoline's going from six to two correct and what about the diesel two two to two same same size on the diesel 2,000 okay um if if you're going down to a 2,000g tank as opposed to six how many times a week month day do you get a 6,000g delivery and isn't that going to cause more deliveries for 2,000 gon tank we're going down to the 2,000 because we found we found that the 6,000 is not needed so it when we do get a delivery we're not filling the 6,000g tank especially now when since we've been told that they're getting to their of you anticipate getting a delivery for I think uh weekly uh bi-weekly um yeah it's one I'm sorry I I say it correct one time a month we get fuel deliveries one time a month is that is that how it is now yes it is and that won't change no just if this approved how many people would you be housing potentially maximum housing on profit on Summit side on the summit side or both sides 45 for both Milburn and Summit and that's split how it would be split uh 12 on the Milburn side and 33 on the summit side 20 27 in the one building six in the other I'm going to do this now because I know it's going to come up the um this is all affordable housing because obviously these are not folks who are um are your members or those kind of that that that kind of income level as you know Summit is uh looking at a 59 person unit requirement uh is there any plan to provide uh this to the state as an example of affordable housing is that possible to do uh are we able to uh to somehow provide a benefit to the city uh through this what is affordable housing I don't know the answer to that question just because it's not held out to the public as a whole these are specific people that are applying for these jobs so I don't know if the state would but they have to get their approval through the federal government they do I I just I don't see the government's involved here somehow have we looked into this or can can you give us any response to what we've heard yes so we did look into this and this wouldn't qualify as affordable housing um one of the reasons would be is that there's no kitchen um in the rooms so that's want a [Music] kitchen um so that wouldn't count well is there a reason that we shouldn't be when we're adding more than four units if I recall correctly uh we're supposed to be getting affordable housing for it now how do you get affordable housing for affordable housing I don't know on private land though so it's a little well these are all private land you know that's a golf land I mean it's if you build four apartments right private that yeah how how important is it not held out to the public isue that was my first reaction too I mean is it doesn't have to be held out to the public in order to even be eligible Mr chair if I could we actually talked about this in our office today and this would be a a great thing if we could find affordable housing credits for these units but unfortunately without the kitchen facility and also the fact that it's not publicly uh noticed or having people from the public apply for these units it doesn't meet the face value of the current rules I wish there was a provision like you're saying which is almost I'll use the phrase Workforce housing but there's some other phrases for that but to qualify for sort of a transient housing condition where the people are likely income qualified because of their nature um but yet uh that's something that doesn't exist in the current rules so that's why we can't get credit for them um and we can't require them to contribute to the housing fund from this um that's another question I don't know the answer for as far as the trust fund as far as the trust fund is concerned that would be the analysis of any increase in the assessed value as a result of this that the city would then designate but I do not believe I know you mentioned the potential set aside of units I'm not sure and I can try to look into the code but I don't believe this would qualify for the mandatory set aside yeah it's not it's not contemplated at least from that regulation by my experience trying to get a benefit for the city out of this somehow absolutely when we first there is a benefit to these employees obviously and it benefit to the employees benefit to the members is all that and uh looking for one more it when we first approached the town about this project a couple of years ago we we did have the conversation um and the club would not be opposed to the town being able to count towards their um you towards their housing goals but we wouldn't want it to interfere with the club's ability to fill those rooms and not open them to the public but you would be opening them to the public if there were no Visa program you would be opening to I believe you said New York and other other areas where people un York said yes well not public in terms of they have to work they have to be employees of the club they have to be employees of the club they wouldn't be able right exactly yeah they wouldn't be able to come live on property and then go work somewhere El work somewhere else right it's not a general lottery but wait a minute you just also said that they might be working for other clubs uh if uh balol has another major golf tournament uh wouldn't perhaps some of your employees be working there well if I can sorry I think he said that they they share them during the seasons with clubs that but maybe you share them with a you know a tournament area I know I'm being you're you're asking me questions I'm really not prepared to answer at this point but I um I know that you know when Balter hosts a major tournament they look for volunteers they they look to hire other employees but we're still operating during that time so I wouldn't be able to give half of my or a third of my Workforce to baltis for you think you think you'd be busier right okay I you hope for okay I'll if we find out any more before the resolutions if indeed this gets approved can we we can always revisit correct sure I although I don't I mean if we find something out okay um any other questions done so could you walk me through a typical day right now of who uses the Wallace Road entrance um how many times okay other than deliver other than the fuel delivery okay um staff as I said we those Gates start getting used at 5:30 in the morning for staff um generally that staff is leaving property between 3 and 4:00 in the afternoon um and then various throughout the week various times during the 9:00 a.m. I'm sorry the 8:00 a.m. to 9:30 p.m. time frame for deliveries such as sand uh mulch uh chemicals for the golf course fertilizers those sorts of things uh so it is intermittent use throughout the day throughout the week so approximately now how many visits do you think there are going through that c a day a week six to eight and so if we were I know you stated that if we if you increase the number of occupants for the the um housing most of them won't have cars but let's say 50% have cars I I would I would say none would have cars because they again if if we fill it with the international housing which is what we hope to do there would be no cars if it's I was told this all time no Hope's not planed correct um anyone else if if if we are filling it with local uh staff they would all be uh parking on the Milburn side in our staff parking lot yes all of them the only staff that would continue to use that gate would be the grounds maintenance staff and there that's who's currently using it now so the additional housing would be purely for grounds maintenance or for both the hospitality side and ground no the the additional housing we're looking for entirely for Clubhouse Hospitality so that made me think of one more question can you if you have 27 people living in that building who are going to have breakfast lunch and dinner at the the main Clubhouse I guess is this on a staggered SK how does that work and how do they I mean they're going to use golf carts while people are golfing like what's the path how are they how are they getting there so there's a main um a main cart path uh that is used to access from from the Milburn to the summit and backside um we train staff that are using you know uh beverage cart staff uh Grounds Maintenance staff we train them on how to drive through the uh the golf course what to look out for from a safety standpoint and playing standpoint um we generally are serving uh staff meal from 11: to 11:30 uh lunch and dinner from 5: to 5:30 in the evening uh we don't offer breakfast any other questions for this witness couple more you don't mind so if I'm a a person that lives in that which you're proposing a new housing and I need a new pair of shoes how do I get that done without you would arrange for a lift or an Uber or decide to take a bus mass transit it you would work your way to the Milburn side have your LIF or Uber pick you up there at the main Clubhouse or walk to the bus bus stop by Short Hill that all has to be done on the Milburn side yes or you'd order from Amazon I was about to say that that's where I buy my shoes my my point is you're still generating trips whether it be a Uber or a lift or but all from the Milburn side where our M main Ingress and egress to the property are another question why the preference for uh International understanding the turnover that you have in and how difficult that is but with housing I'd have to imagine there's got to be some good Hospitality programs with 24 jobs local jobs that could potentially be explored or is that you would think yeah um has not been our experience we consider ourselves an employer of choice and we offer very competitive salaries and and benefits and um we do work with um both local and Regional uh Hospitality schools uh universities uh and that's generally in in different types of um lower to mid-level management types of uh types of positions it's not filling for uh busers or servers or dishwashers or um those types of uh those types of positions thanks any other questions I guess I'm I'm also thinking about the lifestyle of the people who are living here um I I just haven't heard anything about any amenities like yes they could take an Uber to go buy a pair of shoes but it kind of seems like they're mostly stuck here right they they don't have a car they are used said Mass transit's not that great basically so that's kind of it they have their dorm room and then they're there for six or 9 months when they're not having meals or working that's kind of it most of them are they not leaving the site no they're they're definitely leaving the site they're you know close proximity to New York City um close proximity to other cultural areas um they wouldn't you know they're not locked into the facility they can go and we you know we again we were not in this program yet but our plans are to do welcome packets to provide them with maps to provide them with Transportation schedules provide them with all the different types of um literature we can on on you know the Arts music you know entertainment um Newark is you know is a hot bed for sports and and and um different types of cultural programs so you know certainly we would make programs like this known to to them and you know part of their onboard orientation um but it's really up to the employee to take advantage of what they want to take advantage of um from my understanding talking to other clubs that are currently in these programs these individuals are here to work they want to work they want to make as much money as they can before they end up having to go back home any other questions from the board okay any questions from the public if anyone has a question from the public please come [Music] forward again state your name spell your last name and ask your question Bill Janowski j n k wsk Ki I'm at 39 Wallace Road um the program the international program is terrific I can tell you it after a fact we use it in our Florida course and we get the same guys back every year and females and they do have families you can't curtail them not have families and they all have cars um speaking of cars Saturday question please we need questions only okay um parking you're going to need parking I think and I don't think they're addressing the parking situation sir this is for questions of this witness only there will be a public comment section at the end where you can State your opinions thank you um so I guess your question the total staff um for the golf course in season in season yes in season we could have up to 350 employees counting to CES CES not employees okay that's a lot of people that's your question but is is that what's existing or is that what's proposed that's what's proposed and what is existing anywhere between he's got to use a microphone currently what we have is is anywhere from 275 to 300 at any given time now um the additional staff for what we're looking to augment any other questions sir I have no more questions okay thank you anyone else who has a question yes sir uh Joseph Wagner wner R uh seven Wallace Road uh my only question right now is of the 24 proposed people how many are ground maintenance vers this in International you know staff that was to you know like a training session or whatever Our Hope would be that all 24 beds would be filled by the international Workforce our Grounds Maintenance staff is different from what we're proposing the house in this building so none you don't propose any you don't propose any to be ground maintenance staff coming in on on 24 beds not contemplated at this time thank you any other questions Mr Orin Gil oron 45 Wallace Road just a couple questions I read the uh looked at the file this morning and it's 29 is the number 24 is would be new but there's five there now uh I think think there should be three but there are five so that' be 29 is that correct that is not correct the original submission was an error it showed five beds on the first floor there were only three so it would be the 24 on the second floor plus the three existing which would be 27 27 okay um are there any now that are part of the international program we do not currently have housing to offer them so we have not entered into that program as of today on the domestic ones that are not vetted as the international one would be what is the vetting process for the domestics that are there now and are employed by you okay all of our current employees are vetted by Club staff we have a professional HR department that uh conducts the interviews does checks they're interviewed by the department managers at least one um I would say that our interview process is is very robust uh we we require uh references for any type of position somebody coming in new I I just like sorry I'm just going to interrupt for the existing three employees in that house um as part of the resolution in 2005 they are required to have background checks um are the rooms restricted to the people who are working there or can they have guests come in okay we have a guest policy where all guests need to be off property uh by I believe it's by 11: p.m. but they can't have guests they they can certainly we you know that people make friends they can have other employees as guests they if they're somebody that's been there for long period of time they could have they could have a guest in the room but the guest needs to be out of the room by 11:00 p.m. and where would the guest Park the guest would park on the Milburn side just like everybody else there will be testimony regarding the number of parking spaces on the Su side any other questions from the public PA Dian 61 Wallace Road Summit New Jersey um Mr costantino you sent us a letter October 3rd is that correct to neighbors yes I did and in does it say anywhere in that letter that there will be 24 employees on the site I I believe we referenced both projects and don't believe we put this I don't believe we put an exact number in the in the letter it was going to be explained in the program okay you didn't any number in the letter um do you know if uh apartments are allowed on on in the golf Zone they they are not that's why we're here seeking a use variance uh is multifamily allowed in the golf Zone uh that is why we're here seeking a use variance which has already been approved once before in 2005 and this board found found that that use was appropriate for this site was that for three employees at the time it was for three employees because that's all that was proposed I have no further questions any other questions from the public if not we should move to your next witness perfect uh Wayne Jax do you swear from the testimony you're about to given this matters the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth I do please state your name spell your last name yes my name is Wayne Jack j a c ques thank you and can you briefly describe your background and experience in three boards you've appeared before recently um I'm a registered architect um been registered architect since 1986 now is in Massachusetts currently I have 16 licenses um including New Jersey since 2001 bachelor's and master's degree from Oklahoma State University and I've been with the current firm that I'm at for um just over 20 years and just three boards you've been accepted before recently um Milburn River Veil essexfells pamis all right that's four that's four any questions from the board would you like to this credentials okay let's go ahead and move forward um can you tell the board and the interested public about the firm you worked for Force specifically whether or not the firm has a special expertise in providing architectural services to clubs yes um the firm's been in business for 41 years um our specialty is private clubs probably 85 to 90% of our work is private clubs um both golf City and yacht clubs that that's our special and that's what we focus on both in master planning and in doing the actual programs um can you just name a few of those clubs that you've worked for um essexfells Mountain Ridge balol Cano Brook and numerous projects um Spring Brook Spring Lake Rock cicus Fiddler's Elbow perfect thank you um and did can Brook Country Club engage your firm to provide architectural services in connection with the improvements to the existing maintenance and employee housing building and can you explain the steps that you've taken to prepare yourself to give expert testimony um yes they did we've been working with canberg for approximately 12 years um they hired us to look into this project as they do have in other projects um usually start with meeting with um Albert and his staff and the board or committees to develop a design program to figure out what needs to be what what their goals are and how we achieve it um sometimes we look at multiple um iterations to see the best use of um of a property and for the proper number of um units or program that they want and you've said you did site inspections and you've reviewed the ordinance yes okay perfect um so now that you've qualified as an expert um in the field of architecture and established an adequate Foundation can you describe the existing building and the proposed expansion using the architectural plans filed with the application um as well as Rev sheet p1.1 which why I would ask be marked as A2 and the rendering marked as A3 this this first diagram is the revised p1.1 and the only revision on it is shows the three beds as opposed to the five beds that were shown in the original um document that was give to the board um this this shows the proposed first floor of the building um which the current first floor is 43 4352 Square ft and we're adding approximately 120 square ft which is the egress a from the second floor that's only footprint change on the ground for this building um sd3 which is the proposed second floor um of this building the current footprint of the second floor is 2,22 Ft it's mainly used for storage um with with one stair going up to that level and what we're proposing is to um expand the footprint on the second floor approxim 1,712 ft for a total of 3,7 740 square feet on this level which is smaller than the lower level because there are some roof roof areas to create the architecture to make it uh not a two-story box this is the to be exhibit A2 I believe um A3 A3 um this is a proposed rendering of what the building will look like with the addition um these being the the doors to the maintenance level the existing first floor is stucco that'll remain stucco and the second second floor will be a clabbered material that'll match colors to the existing um other buildings on the property um and then again can you just um confirm that there is fire separation and a sprinkler system yes it's required by code for fire separation between the um residential use and the storage use um and the lighting that's proposed um the only proposed lighting is at the doors um we're adding actually one new light over the new stair which is required for emergency erress and those will meet the standards required by the by the city um and again the purpose of those stairs the reason of being added it's for the second means to be agress from the second floor there's currently one that's internal and this will be the second means from the second floor um and in the floor plans um again in those Lounge areas is there any oven no there's no no cooking in in this facility okay um can you describe the variances that are being requested with regard to the building um current currently it's a um it's an accessory structure which is required to be 15 ft and one story the existing building is two stories and 3 34.419584 and the um existing screening and the perimeter screening will this have any impact visually on surrounding properties and will the height be easily perceived uh we don't see it that have a negative impact to the surrounding areas then the height as mentioned is actually little bit shorter than the existing building I don't have any other questions okay questions from our professionals no Ed I just have one question regarding Mechanicals any changes to Mechanicals on site um well there'll be additional Mechanicals for the for the additional units upstairs okay will those be on ground yes they will properly screen yes and the engineer will talk about the screening okay okay questions from the board I just have one about the height just trying to clarify are you reducing the height of the building like putting on a new roof and lowering it or is the height lower because of the grade plane or something you know the whole roof structure is new so so you're just dropping it like half a foot okay Tom excuse me sounds like you've worked on a number of other country clubs as well how would you characterize the number of employees that would be living on this property if it's approved versus the other clubs you've worked on on it it really varies and it's similar to what Albert said that most clubs do not have the space that they can put additional housing and most Master plans we're doing almost every Club we're doing a master plan for is looking to add employee housing to their facilities just because it's just required in this industry to to be able to keep and get employees so you would agree that you're saying can Brook is fortunate they have the space that other clubs if they had the space would probably do more correct but they're all they all do as much as they can is that what your testimony is okay thank you any other questions yes questions there any provisions for solar power any uh uh Power storage so that could reduce the amount of the fuel um we have not looked into that no thank you any other questions just what what's like here say what's the square footage per person is that pretty standard on other projects you've worked on yeah the the the dorm or the two bed rooms are are standard for where we're doing in other clubs and what we see in other clubs so um so this is fully sprinklered top and bottom yes Central Station fire alarm I believe so any idea where the nearest fire hydrant is um I do not know that is it on site sure this civil engineer t Okay other questions from the board questions from the public yes sir um 3,000 you get to say your name I'm sorry Paul Dean 61 Wallace Road sumon New Jersey so you said that it's roughly 3,000 square fet right um what the second floor second floor 374 700 40 okay 3740 ided by 24 that's you said yes I I did say visual impact just from the distances and with all the the Trees and Landscaping that on the on the site I personally do not feel that would be a negative impact to the neighbors visually and what do you foresee families coming in using the dormatory rooms because he did State the uh golf person stated that there could be families living in there right that I'm not aware of no Albert said that there will not be any families okay that's all I have for your it was a witness who said that there would be I was a question or rather who indicated that might that said at another club there were families but that's not to happen not what is proposed here Mr Orin could we see that picture oh I'm sorry any other questions from the public yes sir Joe Wagner wh n 7even Wallace Road the building the only changeing footprint is a step The Stairway to get into the building right the second floor yeah the emergency stair coming from the second floor what's on the second floor now that that you're not expanding the building it's uh storage so well that's so you'll half the storage will be gone and the other half converted into the uh dormatory will be removed from the second floor and those second floor will be the dormatory so the second floor is 3200 ft or something you said yes 3700 but you're only using 1,600 no 3740 is for the the dorm the restrooms and the common area okay I thought it was 1680 or something for the expansion that's what they're adding that's adding the Flor 2,000 ft of storage see but you you're not changing the footprint you're just changing the axis what's being used upstairs not changing the ground floor footprint the upstairs is is being enlarged okay so you're adding square footage upstairs yes okay but you're lowering the roof line correct okay thank you any other questions from the public seeing none your next witness Mr chairman before we go to next witness I ask one a question I guess from Miss suos um actually this prompted by Mr Nelson's line of question I noticed the fire chief did not submit a report on either one of these cases and I'm a little little surprised do we I assume that he was asked yes it was sent out um and I just I didn't receive anything back okay I'm just surprised okay we didn't hear that answer uh repeat the answer that yes the reports were sent out on the date that's noted on the comment sheet I don't have it in front of me and they weren't sent back to me sorry now okay so yes I did send out the um sheets for the materials for staff comments and I did not receive a report back okay surpris yes it is surprising um I guess we should move to your next witness sure Kyle Smith so we have some exhibits do you want the handouts before we get started started will that make it easier uh probably the easiest and these are as a package they are what a um so I they're going to be um A4 five and six and they're also a copy of A1 which has already been okay thank you sir and can you yeah can you also make some available to the U to the audience we can share one okay you could have I'm sorry but all of you get to share and we will swear you in and qualify you before we start if you can raise your right hand do you swear from the testimony you're about to given this matters the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth I do please state your name spell your last name Kyle Smith SMI thank you can you briefly describe your background experience and three boards have appeared before recently yes so I'm a licensed professional engineer practicing civil engineering for over 17 years years I'm a licens in the state of New Jersey as a civil engineer and I'm in good standing um I received a Bachelor of Science uh in mechanical engineering in 2007 from the College of New Jersey I'm a principal at Dynamic engineering I've been here for two years where I work on private land development sites um prior to that for 15 years I worked in the public sector so I worked as a consultant to for municipalities and planning boards um so a lot of my experience is on the public side and now I've been working on the private side for the past two years um so because of that I've only actually testified in front of one board which was a few years back in free old Township and you were accepted there I imagine yes any questions from the board or would you like to accept his credentials I think we'll accept your credentials and uh ask Mr Alis to move forward uh were you retained in Your Capacity as a professional engineer to prepare a site plan for the minor expansion of the maintenance and employee housing building proposed by can Brook that's the subject of this application yes um and what steps did you take to prepare for this commission first we conferred with the Cano Brook staff the principal's there to understand what the scope of the project was then I worked directly with the Architects and the rest of the professionals to really dig into the design requirements I reviewed the applicable zoning uh ordinance provisions of the city of summit and as it relates to the dimensional regulations applied to the site then based on this I prepared a site plan um that was submitted on the for this project uh on the south course of the club Summit site and was the site plan prepared in accordance with acceptable regular and prevailing professional engineering standards yes and recognizing that the employee housing and fuel storage tank proposals were originally filed as two separate applications that have now been Consolidated did you prepare an updated site plan sheet that incorporates the lot coverages for both projects yes we prepared an updated site plan and a rendered site plan I would ask if those be marked as A4 and A5 so using exhibit A1 A4 and A5 can you describe the site plan with regard to the employee housing project from a civil engineering perspective yes I can yes I can so um Albert did a great job of explaining the the location of the site but um just to give it a little more perspective this is on the Northern edge of the city of summit um it's surrounded by the um Municipal line with the township of Milbourne uh to the north as well as Route 124 and 24 um and then it's surrounded by Residential Properties to the west south and the East um by Wallace Road to the West Woodland na to the South and bellw to the east um so Albert gave the distance already but I can just go through it briefly here whereas the um proposed employee housing is 473 feet from the property line on Wallace Road and 149 ft to the property line on Woodland a and the proposed above ground storage tank is approximately 786 ft from the property line on wildace road and 1,123 ft from the property line on Woodland Avenue um so with that the existing conditions of the site as previously explained two-story building um that has maintenance and storage and it also has employee housing which was approved by the board of adjustment in 2005 there's currently six parking spots directly adjacent to the building and there's um the footprint of the building is 4,344 square ft and that's existing and the net usable area currently for both floors is 5,870 Ft um and then what is proposed so as we previously described the the proposed building addition is a footprint of 177 Square fet um the and that I'm sorry that includes the stairs and the landing right that's that's correct okay um the existing and proposed block coverage for both applications so that's counting both the employee housing and the above ground storage tanks um that is 10 15,45 square feet existing and the proposed is 105,3 square ft for for a total of 1.96% of LW coverage which is well under the 3% permitted and and this is a net increase of 458 Square ft of impervious area so that 458 Square ft 422 squ feet of it is from the employee housing and 36 square ft is from the above down storage tanks the exist existing building coverage for the site is 19,41 Ft whereas the proposed building coverage will be 19578 square ft there's no uh building coverage limitation in the gzone um we're also going to have some as previously described U mechanical equipment will be located on the east side of the building that's going to be there's going to be a 7 foot high p uh privacy fence with privacy slots located around that um there's sidewalk on the east side of the building and uh Landing ramps um there's also a ramp leading up on the south side of the building and just a pad on the north side of the building for the doors as it relates to utilities the existing utilities on the site include a ceter Sewer Lateral water service we already spoke about the fire service um Gas and Electric and it's anticipated that the existing uh capacity of the utilities are sufficient enough that there will not need to be upgrades to the utility services um so Landscaping was in general was described the the perimeter of the site has trees and some buffers there's fencing and obviously with the distance from the um existing Road property line to the to the building um we don't anticipate that'll be a significant um view to the offsite public um we are removing one Evergreen um in order to install that proposed Edition so we're replacing that Evergreen right up here as shown on the rendering um we will also put some uh Shrubbery on the side to to surround both the mechanical equipment and the the the sidewalk walkway leading up to the building is there any signage proposed no signage is proposed just the Ada parking spine okay and with regard to the proposed above ground fuel storage tanks did you prepare an exhibit that shows the location of the proposed tanks yes I would ask if that would be marked as A6 um it's entitled Maintenance building area exhibit dated 11424 and using A6 can you describe the fuel storage tank proposal from a civil engineering perspective recognizing that Mr arjani will testify as to the specifics of that project certainly so um as you as you guys are aware we revised the location of the above ground storage tank on the site that was done in order to to reduce the impact to parking so it was shifted from the plans that you guys previously seen it was shifted slightly to the to the West in order to reduce the impact to existing parking so we will be losing five spots within this area um but we still were able to maintain four spaces based off of the ability to fuel and and get through the um do the buff ground storage tank area and how many sorry how many spaces are on site proposed 26 total okay and then just sorry going back to the um the parking area there um how many spaces are being proposed eight eight spaces are proposed seven seven standard spaces and one Adai compliant space and there was six there previously correct okay sorry um so going back to the above ground storage tank as part of this um there's a there's a existing verm which will be uh discussed in Mr anjani's testimony that part of that is being removed but our proposed uh setup we're also proposed to do screening on the North and the West sides of the above ground storage tank area um sorry I just want to clarify the whole burm is not being removed just a small portion just a small area of burm where they're going to have to grade around the the proposed tank site which Mr ojani will explain all right um but we're going to be screening that with a total of 16 blue girl and blue boy holes those grow to approximately six to eight feet at a mature mature height um and they'll be located on the top of the BM so the the tanks which are 6 and 1 half ft high will you know not be visual visible from from a distance based off of that um and then we will also require some lighting some safety sight Lighting in the area of the above ground storage tanks um that's going to be provided with mentioned sensor lights and as a condition of approval a lighting plan will be submitted to the planning board engineer for review and approval uh any proposed lighting that we will you know provide here on the site will not adversly impact the neighbors based on the distance to the property lines and the type of lighting that will be provided and it'll comply with the ordinance that's correct okay so using exhibit A4 and A6 can you describe for the board the proposed off street parking yes so the the ordinance requirements St such that there's one space required per bedroom so um the existing you know there's an existing building down here that has six bedrooms so that requires six parking spaces this will have the the proposed building will have 15 bedrooms so that's a total of 6 plus 15 is 21 parking spaces required uh Mr constantini already previously testified that the the require the need at this time is approximately 20 spaces he does not foresee that changing we will be providing more than that with 26 spaces that's completed by the seven standard spaces and one 8 parking space so that's a total of eight here and then very you know proximate to the to the building it's a distance of approximately I think I have it here 240 ft from the proposed employee housing building are all these parking spaces so it's a total of 18 spaces within the area by this uh maintenance building which does not require any parking and the new parking um those eight spaces they comply in terms of size and width and striping with the ordinance that's correct and we we've revised this exhibit to show the double hair pin striping as required for the ordinance great um and can you tell the board if any storm water management is proposed based on the addition of more than 300 Square ft of impervious area yes so I spoke with the planning board engineer um Miss Marie rafay and we've talked about the fact that there's an additional 458 square feet of impervious area being proposed as part of the combined projects um and we understand there's a a ordinance from the city to anything over 300 square feet will require drainage for minor development so even though the 458 squ F feet is di minous to the overall site we understand the requirement and we intend to address that by um taking a minimum of 458 Square ft from the roof um taking the roof leaders down into underground piping and into a dryw and that's clean water that will be um infiltrating into the ground and have you had an opportunity to review the engineers comments uh with regard to the staff housing project and you can you respond to any items that you have not already covered in your testimony yes so um comment number 10 related to the soil erosion and sediment control plan so as part of this project we're going to disturb less than 5,000 square ft soil soil erosion uh certification is not required from The Soil Conservation District but we will provide that plan as requested by the planning board engineer the soil erosion s control plan uh which you mean zoning board engineer oh sorry sorry about that zoning board engineer I apologize and then item number 15 um construction de detail was requested for the sidewalk and we'll provide that great I don't have any other questions so you tell am am I to understand that we do not have the drawings for any of the uh any of the mediation for drainage those have not been submitted not at this time but there was a conversation because this um the amount of lock coverage came up once the staff reports came out and as soon as we found out um Kyle reached out to the board engineer and they discussed Marie that's correct we we spoke on this um on Friday um and we talked about that storm water requirement and just as he had said it you know he looked at it as being di minous to the whole site but um in reality putting these two projects together combined um became something over the 300 square feet and I can see maybe where he he was brought into this project as just being the dorat right so then when these two combined I think it was like oh wait a second we didn't take into account the the um the upground storage tank puts those two together now it's above the 300 so he said he'd be willing to put in some drainage for mediation that's I think that's the time sense you would be looking for a condition that you see those drawings prior to the resolution that's correct I don't know everybody else on the board agrees with that uh I'm a little confused with the number of parking spaces earlier testimony said that nobody is going to be using a parking space now we know we have to have one per bit uh that's the ordinance requirement yes right and but we have to have one per bit uh I heard 21 spaces I've heard 18 spaces I think I heard 27 spaces can somebody give me the real number so it's one per bedroom not per bed so the total parking that is required is is is 21 so 15 from the proposed employ housing building and six from there are 15 beds or 15 bedrooms bedrooms and they are all doubles no the on the first floor they're singles so the three on the first floor are singles so there are 12 doubles is 20 correct four plus three is 27 and three us to the 27 but the ordinance requires it based on bedroom not beds okay all right let's go to the experts but I'm not sure you got your second question answered how many are proposed after all the improvements and changes 26 26 okay of which one is handicapped correct okay okay um the lighting you had said you'll you'll make it complying with all the standards the lighting around the fuel storage area that will also include um downward casting lights corrects okay um I think they've addressed all my other questions thank you so um I think I think you've addressed everything that was in my letter but something that came up in this testimony before was that maybe the um applicant or the people using that housing might be having bikes there is there any thoughts about putting bike bracks out there to accommodate that yeah I mean that hasn't been discussed as of yet but we'll we'll review that okay yeah board qu board questions Tom yeah just one um so I know you you made some Illusions to Landscaping plans on both of your drawings and the Forester had questions and concerns about Landscaping so I'd like to ask if it's a assum app gree at some kind of condition that the Forester sees these plans but I think he has not seen these plans yet correct that's um not the revised plans now only one he has not seen would be the revised fuel storage plan which actually is adding those 16 um holes as screening which is what he um I believe in his letter had asked for some screening there yes I would just ask for condition that sure these go to hit Mr linston for review and approval okay any other questions from the board um yeah you testified that the sewer line is sufficient to add 24 extra people the use for 24 people do you have information on how big one how big is the sewer line and two what about laundry I guess when when the sewer line came up it made me realize there's I didn't see any laundry in here is there going to be laundry in this building you know or the where will the employees do laundry all right we're going back to the prior witness Albert costantini U we do have uh laundry facilities in the basement of the six six bedroom building which is right across the driveway from this new proposed area and they would it would it's a shared laundry area okay but there will be increased use obviously with 24 extra people and so then you also have the extra bathroom so just you know Mak sure you have the capacity understood So based on the NDP Rags it's proposing to have an additional 720 gallons per day which a 4 in lateral is suitable to to handle the additional capacity did we ever get an answer as to where the fire hydrant is would you have that would you have that information yeah it's actually located between the the existing or the proposed employee housing building and this building that's located the the um existing six bedroom building there's a hyd right right out here yeah the yellow house as it was described earlier so where is that in relation to the new fuel storage tanks do I have to pass the fuel storage t get to the hydrant uh the fuel storage tanks are over here and the hydrant is approximately 200 ft away no the you you come to the the fuel storage tanks are past the where's the entrance for w Oh Yeah from Wallace all right so yeah so we're not passing the the fuel storage tanks over here so we're coming this way to the employe house so Mr chairman I this might be an unusual request but I'd like to ask for a condition that we ask the fire chief even he just says no comments but just to do we have something in writing that the fire chief is comfortable with because it makes me a little uncomfortable fuel tanks all these people you know I I don't I I would like to call him into tesy if I could but I can't well just have to put submit a report even if it's no comments or I'm fine with it just something that with something in writing that he's looked at it and approved it or if he has comments what are the comments can we do that condition yeah that sounds fair usually do misses any objection no objection okay okay any other no nothing else from you to any more from the board yes um so under the I don't know if this is your area or if it's the fuel tank okay whatever you want to call is there a retention based under that the catch fuel should rupture or so the next Witness answer that any other questions any questions from the public for this witness oh I'm sorry I do one more Jo I'm sorry go ahead the old tanks are being removed completely correct that's correct and the ground will be tested and all that correct as necessary yes okay any questions from the public Mr Dean called The n61 Wallace Road Summit New Jersey uh if the project merely saw the second floor renovated uh that would reduce the number of employees correct state that again sorry if the second floor were merely renovated that would reduce the number of housing units for the employees is that right if it was renovated into what uh just renovated using the existing square footage yeah yeah yes if if we just used the existing square footage we would not be able to fit the amount of rooms that we're we're seeking permission for here and that would also reduce the parking requirement then correct correct but we comply with the parking requirement that's not what the application is excuse me that's not what the application is okay um and the the uh person from the golf course said that they're they're not anticipating cars from these new employees um is it realistic to assume that the car there'll be no car traffic coming in from those new employees and or current employees using the uh Wallace Road entrance every morning to get in and out with their cars going into the site yes that is what Mr Constantine said thank you that's all but th those are all I'm correct those are not those employees maintenance employees not Hospitality correct correct it it would not change the existing condition of those employees I'm just trying to get straight my mind it can be any employee that goes onto the site who wants to access it from Wallace Road can access it uh any anytime when the door we'll have comments later but the question okay just wanted to clarify the question except on that site there's only a golf course in a maintenance building okay any other questions in the public is where I was okay yes sir David goodstein g o o d St n 25 Wallace Road um I'm just how long is this project going to take to do I are they all going to be combined together and all done at one time and how much heavy machinery because I know in the past we've had problems on Ros Lane where the road had to be replaced because uh there were too many trucks coming in heavy trucks mhm and they basically uh destroyed the road at this point I couldn't comment on the size or the amount of trucks for construction or the timing it is our hope that the construction weather permitting doesn't take more than 6 months for the renovation uh given that the fuel tanks are in a different location uh there's every indication that those projects Could Happen simultaneously okay and the heavy machinery how much heavy machinery obviously got a big big machinery to take those tanks out right there would there would be excavation equipment and and trailers to remove those tanks I'm not a contractor so I couldn't repine on the size of the trucks okay because I know in the past they've had to leave those trailers out in a road okay that's commentary we'll get to that I promise but uh the other question would be repair of damage if there were any to public property would be handled by your insurance company I assume or the contractors yes any other questions from the public seeing none and looking at the clock I think it's time for our 9:00 recess and we'll be back here in 7 minutes perfect thank you e e e e e e e e e e e e e we are back in session and we move on to your next witness okay Jos Fender or Johnny oh yes if you want to just pass through this is exhibit A7 it's again revised based on the new location of the fuel storage thanks you and I share and that way they can okay we're going to share so you'll have some left for the other thank you takes more thank you all right if you could please raise your right hand do you swear airm the testimony you're about to give in this matter the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth I do state your name spell your last name my name is jender arjani a r j a n i last name thank you briefly describe your background experience and three boards you've appeared before recently sure uh I have uh I'm a licensed uh I'm a registered architect in state of New Jersey since 2009 I have 34 years of experience in this profession uh I have a bachelor's and a master's degree in architecture and uh in I've been uh with I think I didn't State the address so it's Burton engineering I'm employed with Burton engineering for last 22 years the address is 66 Glenn Avenue Glenrock New Jersey and three boards you've appeared before recently not in front of this board but I've testified in front of various boards for last 15 years uh to name a few uh mawa fairon Freehold relle PK Union parip thank you any questions from the board would you like to accept his credentials I understand this is question there is there a difference between licensed and registered or is that just what he referred to for Architects it's registered architect ra okay so that that's it but it's the same thing okay but you have a license and it's in good standing in the state of New JM yes and in terms of um as I do I I am an architect and I have worked on various retail projects but many of them include retail and Fleet fueling and I have worked on uh above ground storage tanks recently for jcpnl uh Atlantic City Electric uh Dapper in for Bus and many others we accept your credentials and uh move ahead with uh your attorney will'll begin the questioning sure um can you uh explain what steps you took to prepare uh for your testimony uh I conferred with the U canob Brook club uh also the contractor who licensed for uh store installation of such projects they are licensed from the njd uh with them uh professionals uh part of the team and within our own office uh as per the construction codes uh NFPA uh the fire protection Cod the ordinance and I've visited the site and uh based on all these plans were prepared okay um Mr Smith just testified with regard to the updated location of the two above ground storage tanks the landscaping and the lighting um using the filed plans can you describe for the board the specifics of the above ground storage tank layout sure uh So the plan set that was submitted by our office has six drawings in it uh two of them are tank the last four are the construction drawings for construction permits uh two are for the tank plans and the last two are electric the first two are prepared for the S plan um application which shows the setback and the drawing that was uh just hand the exhibit that exhibit A7 that is provided to you is revision to drawing c2.1 which is the as location plan uh the tanks were originally proposed a little bit to the east to where this exhibit shows and uh based on uh recent discussion and how it was affecting the parking in that area the tanks have been relocated uh it does not affect how the tank Arrangement was on the original plan so I will use that to testify to the tank itself and uh it does not affect to the fuel truck deliver delivery circulation path as well the the change to the location of the tank to start with the existing underground storage tank is 8,000 gallons it's over 30 years old it's a split uh it's 6,000 and 2,000 right it's uh 8,000 split into two compartments so it's 2,000 gallon so it's a single tank split correct okay New Testament that's what I've been told I've not U okay yeah so anyway it it's being removed it it's being removed there are two dispensers and islands and all Associated piping will be removed the tank removal is also done by a state licensed contractor so they are specialized in this field and an lsrp will oversee the removal will test the soil around it and the removal of tanks and it'll be disposed of in according with accordance with the ngdp regulations to the facilities where they can be sent to now the new uh above ground storage tank facility will have two 2,000 gallon uh above ground tanks they are double wall steel tanks they are Fire Guard um rated for 2hour fire protection the outer and inner layer is steel with the inside filling of an insul fire fire insulation uh the tank diameter is 64 in uh which sits on a saddle and the top of the tank would be approximately 6'4 in or 6 and 1/2 ft from the uh concrete slab there's a the tank will be placed on a concrete slab 10 in thick uh two Saddles will be anchored to the slab and uh grounding will be provided at the saddles for uh any electric uh uh that's a code requirement for tanks grounding there are two dispensers proposed which is towards the drive side and the tank and dispensers are protected with 6in concrete filled pipe ballers in accordance with the nfba requirements and they are placed 5 ft from the tank and they uh spacing is 4 ft on Center the the setbacks of the tanks from the property line are testified to um with the reev with the revision at 786 ft to the property line at the closest and to the building it will be uh 61.9 ft that's the maintenance building that's closest to the tanks uh if you want me to refer to the plans to describe this I can but uh just to mention other things installed in the tank field area is a spill kit which will have a boom and um uh pillows just in case of any spill it can be used to immediately address that and uh the electrically it'll be tied into the existing um panels and the fuel management system there'll be emergency stops and alarms installed outside the building and uh the uh the tank itself will have on top of a fill uh where the tank will be filled when uh delivery comes and it with a overfill protection a level gauge emergency vents uh and um a pump that will uh pump the fuel out of the tank to the dispenser can you um just discuss some of the benefits of the above ground versus the underground storage correct so the the first benefit is uh to uh remove a 30-year-old installation which is uh not as per current standards and install new fueling system which will meet the current standards and in fact exceed most of the standards are driven by insurance companies so U the the new installations will meet all the current code requirements that is the first benefit of the change this uh above ground storage tanks as uh was mentioned earlier are easier to inspect because it's visible above ground and quicker to access for maintenance and repair uh in response time to any uh leak if observed is much quicker uh they are environmental friendly in in terms of uh the Coatings required for underground storage tanks some of them are not required for above ground storage tank they have longer lifespans and for that reason uh they could be reused if it was decommissioned here great and then can you just um referring to A7 go through the proposed grading of that burm right uh on the uh on the exhibit that you have on top right there is a a grading a window mhm in the dash Lin I think it's is it on yeah okay so the the top right of the sheet has a uh a window of showing the tank location and Grading around it at the bottom which is the I would say the South Side let's say uh it's paved and it's it's flat it slopes towards the east side and on the north east and west um there's a BM so the tank is tucked into the burm and the burm would be modified uh along keeping the high point roughly where what it is so it makes the inside towards the tank side a little bit steeper than what it is today uh other than that um if if you look at the the bottom of the tank is in line with the BM so it hides the tank completely and as Mr Smith uh testified to there'll be shrubs on top uh Evergreen which are 6 to 8 ft tall so the BM is approximately 4 ft tall with the shrubs it's approximately 10t of screening and the tank is only six 6 and 1/2 ft tall perfect I don't have any other questions gentlemen our professionals uh just one question regarding the um spill containment it's actually a double wall tank correct and there's actually alarm systems within that double w yes they the interstitial space is monitored as well is that connected to any other alarm system within the facility uh no it's its own alarm okay it has its own audible alarm correct would sound okay yes thank you further question is um is the fueling um system the same as it is right now is there like an employee key card that comes up or um what kind of protections are there for people to no uh I believe the existing system has a lock on it and the lock is removed in the morning and employees can access that and it's locked after hours and there's a camera monitoring the uh location but besides that they as I understand they do not have any additional uh measures to like there's no card or there's no um another system to monitor that or control that and proposed would be the same so you're say so you're saying that the system that was in place before will continue to be in place correct that was working before yes there were no issues with that correct okay all right um and the you know basically this people will access the circulation they will access the um fuel tanks the same way they did before exactly the same way because if you look at the circulation part on the exhibit the bottom the above ground storage tank is on front of the main M building and it's it's just shifting it further east but otherwise it's the same circulation path okay all right and I had made a um a comment on my letter um asking for Testimony about the greeting and where that was being put but I I recognized that that you've moved it and that has changed some of the grading and it's less impactful to correct what was originally on because the earlier location was requiring us to remove that section of the BM now it's tucked into the the bmm so the the burm side becomes steeper but the BM is intact also the although it's very marginal the impervious coverage addition is reduced with this location thank you Ed oh that's all the questions I have okay Tom yeah just following up with Ed's question one of his questions I ask a similar question the the alarm system so there's an audible alarm on the fuel tanks that the alarm is on the building uh Which is closest edge of the with the fuel stop there uh yes is would it be advisable or is it required maybe or would it be advisable to have a separate alarm actually inside the Residential Building just to make sure that the residents there know if go God forbid there's a leak or a fire with the fuel tanks is that something that might be advisable I it's not really required and the residential building is it's quite a distance over yeah I know I was there today but how far apart they are 284 how many 284 was that much I think okay in my opinion it's really not necessary but okay FL us closer so the okay but if it's that far away is the alarm going to be heard the uh it's not for the residents it's the uh Maintenance building and also it's linked to a fuel management system which which sends information to the the it's electronically will the fire department be notified then all of a sudden we got to leak and we got to go fire department I don't know if really would react to a leak if there was a fire this is like a leak like if you had an underground tank and it was leaking into the ground you know it's just letting you know that you need to service your and tank and typically with double wall tanks uh the idea is to catch the leak before it comes out of the second layer because the interstitial space is monitored so if there's a leak in the inner layer it's caught before it gets out so hopefully there would be no leaks that's the premise at which it's planed designed for okay yeah any other questions from the board sure yeah yes sir so this fact to this alarm so no one's monitoring it at all no it goes into a fuel management system monitor that it it's usually I don't know what the plan is the their U plan for tanks um they referred to earlier is there a but usually there's a Contractor on site and they they they come and inspect every I don't know what intervals they come and inspect that M I have a feeling the uh you you know more about this more than I ever wanted to Sir uh Albert costantini again um we will work with the contractor installing the tank to have that internal alarm to be able to um send an alarm to our our professional our our uh director of grounds Rob shipper who would who would be able to receive that alarm in addition to the audible alarm do you have a security office on site we do um could that be a secondary site secondary as well you yeah they're 247 and they're constantly going around the properties so uh we could have it sent to them yes it's nice to have the alarm but it's better to have somebody monitor because it doesn't often nobody sees it it's kind of would you accept that as a condition yes yes and then a qu the other question I had which I guess was is for you um I know it's a double wall tank but when they're filling it up walls of the tank really don't pay you know don't help much so if there's a spill from the top and it goes down to the ground is there anything to catch it underneath so it doesn't permeate the ground the The Fill itself is um the when the truck delivers the hose is locked to a pipe and then uh with the fuel the there is an overfill alarm and uh overfill valve uh which uh stops the flow of fuel if there was it would not it was not stopped uh and then the delivery man would remove that and if there was any drips there is a bucket that catches those drips so the system is designed not to overflow he pumps he pumps it in from the tanker no uh it's a gravity correct no it's on top yeah yeah so it has to be pumped up correct so back to my question if that hose disconnects where the guys it's 2:00 I don't know what time you get deliveries but let's say it's 2:00 delivery at night probably not going to happen but let's just use it amuse me guy doesn't connect it up right spills 150 gallons of fuel is there something to catch it no there is no third containment underneath proposed right now thank you okay any other questions one more I'm looking at your uh path of travel here mhm in front of the fuel pumps are there not parking spaces to the right of the fuel pump am I mistaken wasn't there didn't you guys say there were parking spaces to the right they are when when we had the plan it was not shown so we can update the plan and we'll show that it it'll work without the impacting theking so there are parking spaces there so really this flow the path flow is not really accurate yeah no the the path flow is accurate if you bring up the are there am I am I other parking spaces there isn't that why you moved it you're right that if I can ask a witness use a microphone please so you're right that the parking spaces are there and uh we will update the truck to demonstrate it'll work without and you use the how long is this truck this is uh Su 40 it's uh it's like a box truck so have you done it for any of the fire apparatus that the city has no we've not prepared for fire yeah thank you we we can prepare one I think we should know that the fire department can get there I'm sure they can but not usually they wouldn't go around they would just go directly directly in back out yeah it depends I think this all goes into the uh request to the fire chief yeah the The Proposal is not changing the path of well my my point is if there's if there's cars parked in those parking spots right the flow paths not going to this travel path's not going to work right for the for any for any for any truck no it's not back it's it's take the microphone with you sir if I'm wrong I apologize ol but you I thought there were four spaces or two spaces there yeah I'll I'll refer to the uh Mr Smith's uh exhibit earlier uh if these those are parking spots these are being removed these four oh they're being removed or they being added just these four ones that are saying back here one two three four I let Mr Smith justify to that okay confuse us some more sorry hi Kyle Smith um so I'm yeah so the four parking spaces will remain um there the four right here one two the four to the north so you are correct the path needs to be revised to reflect that yeah but is there still enough space to walk to go around if those four are that you could go that way yeah yeah that's not the path you show though but that's yeah that correct thank you any other questions from the board any questions from the public yes sir Joe Wagner 7 Wallace Road um just follow up the question from Mr Nelson if there's a leak I'm driving it back on accidentally puncture a gas tank or diesel tank there's nothing to to contain that there's no wall around this um the tank the pad it's just pad and ground so there's nothing contain it that the leak no the system the tanks them itself is a double wall tank and that's what the state requires and second layer of tank outside layer works as a containment the space between the two tanks is monitored so the leak is caught before the outside tank if I accidentally Drive a back ho or something into an puncture a tank and it leaks or the hose leaks it's just going on the ground and running down the driveway there is a there are there's a row of 6in pipe Ballers uh 5 ft from the tank installed for that reason that no vehicle so there is containment no no no I'm saying that there's vehicle protection to the tank so no car or truck can okay uh get close to the tank it's the if you see the you have the ex sorry I'll show you here but it's on your exib you have to use the microphone sir apologize yeah there is this little circles all around they are pipe Ballers 6 in thick concrete filled steel pipes that will prevent from any car truck tank from the uh vle correct but it doesn't address a leak from no no you you mentioned that if something hits a tank it's combination if something leaks on the ground it could still spread if the hose breaks and the guy's pumping fuel out I mean if if the the systems today are designed not like if the hose comes off the dispenser it automatically shut shuts off so if someone were to drive away with the hose and it snaps out of the dispenser the fueling will shut off right away it doesn't spill the things have improved uh over time one other question I'm not sure this is sort of a backwards question in the dorm rooms are they going to be allowed to have um microwaves hot plates or anything like that now as I've testified previously there's no cooking in the building okay and the employees would know they can't do anything yes no popcorn in the TV room I cre back any other questions from the public is where we are seeing none we'll go to your last last witness yes the planner McKinley Marts sare from the testimon you're about to give in this matters the truth the whole truth is nothing but the truth I do please state your name spell your last name sure McKinley MZ M TZ I'm a principal planner at higher gruin Associates thank you and can you just briefly describe your background and experience for the board please sure I have a masters in city and Regional planning from the blouse school at Ruckers University uh I have the New Jersey Professional planning license as well as the national aicp certification uh I have testified in front of boards before uh I was in front of this board about a year and a half ago for a townhouse development on the other side of town uh I have also testified nearby is in front of Wayne South Orange Elmwood Park and I serve as a planner on 10 different boards across the state including both the Planning and Zoning Board uh with your neighbor New Providence and Miss rafay next door any questions from the board or would you like to accept her once again seeing no objections let's move on yep okay so if you could just again explain the steps you took to prepare yourself to give expert planning testimony in this matter sure I reviewed all of the plans that have been presented to you tonight and uh attended team meetings with all of our other professionals to hear uh their testimony outlines ahead of time I conducted a site visit on October 30th where uh Albert was nice enough to give me a tour of the facility including the locations of both the fuel tanks that we're reviewing tonight and the staff housing uh I have reviewed the city's master plan documents the 2,000 master plan and 2016 re-exam as well as your current uh land use ordinance uh all standards within it specifically the golf Zone that we are within great and I would just ask you to go through your presentation sure uh just as a reminder we're here tonight for two different D1 use variances the first being the staff housing uh as has been testified to we're proposing 12 additional rooms to an existing building for a total of 15 rooms that will add 24 beds for a total of 27 beds within the building uh as a resident previously asked and as our team has talked to already that is not a permitted use within the golf Zone the only permitted uses within the golf zone are golf courses uh Second Use variance associated with our application tonight is for the two above ground storage tanks each 2,000 gallons going down from a combined 8,000 gallon system that was just testified to by my predecessor uh we do require one bulk variance tonight for the height of the building that the staff housing is in accessory buildings in this zone are permitted to be one story or 15 ft the existing excuse me existing building is two stories uh 3 4.42 ft we are maintaining two stories but that is going down to 2005 application since this building is existing but just to make sure that the record is clear I'll I'll address it again tonight so moving on to the planning proofs uh that are directed To Us by the municial Landes law for D variances I'm sure you all are no stranger to those and it is late so I will try to be brief uh part of the positive criteria associated with d variances is that we need to demonstrate to you that in particular cases and in particular reasons the variances that we are requesting ing are Justified and Advance the purposes of zoning uh again we have to demonstrate that the proposal will advance those purposes through special reasons and I'll get into what that means in a second uh part of our burden of proof is to uh prove to you that the site is particularly suited for the uses that we are presenting in front of you tonight uh to start with the staff housing use it is my opinion that the site is particularly suited for staff housing uh mostly uh more specific because there has been staff housing on this site since 2005 we have almost 20 years of experience with that and we have uh I'm I was not around in 2005 but my understanding from current uh from Albert and the other current uh professionals there is that there has not been problems associated with with that staff housing and any problems that may have Arisen early on have certainly been fleshed out uh in the last 20 years so we have 20 years of proven experience that this site is suitable and can accommodate staff housing units here uh Additionally the staff housing is very specific to a golf course use typically in a D1 use variants uh it's not our as the applicant's burden of proof to show that there are not other suitable sites in town but just that our site is particularly suited however I would argue here that this use is completely 100% particularly suited for a golf course use uh it really is accessory in nature to the golf course as was testified uh by the operator it is becoming more common in golf courses across not just New Jersey but the country I did my own research and and looked at the National Golf Course Association and stumbled across an article from June of this year where this is a national problem needing to provide housing for employees as uh there are housing crises all over the country uh it is an accessory use that was not planned for in your ordinance because I believe it is a little newer than than uh in the past uh but again it is appropriate for our Golf Course use and I would not argue you uh I would say it's not appropriate for a majority of the other uses that are permitted in your in your town again making this site and the principle use here particularly suited for our proposed uh staff housing uh again because of the nature of the staff that will be housed here they are more transient and mostly seasonal we have testimony tonight that the the stays will be between 6 9 and 12 months uh it wouldn't it really wouldn't be appropriate or feasible ible for most of those individuals to seek housing from a traditional rental where it would be a one-year lease where they might not need that full lease uh I'll touch on this a little bit later but I would also argue that even though you cannot assign these units to at your obligation for affordable units I do believe that they contribute to the overall affordability of the town and the region and I'll come back to that uh also the building in question is existing over 400 ft away just as a reminder we're in football season a football field is 360 fet in length we are far exceeding that so if you can picture how far that is uh it's it's quite always away we did submit photos as part of this application taken from Wallace and uh there was arrows identifying the improvements and from those photos you cannot see or you can hardly see I should say U either of the improvements the site is also suitable for the fuel tanks as proposed again these are accessory to the golf course and needed for the function uh and efficiency of the course they are replacing outdated and dangerous tanks that have existed underground for many years the previously previous testimony indicated that the above ground tanks will be uh they will be safer as they will be more easily accessible in case of leaks or other potential emergencies that might arise uh you do not have to go underground to access them uh the positive criteria associated with our C variance and again it's the height of the accessory building that is triggering our C variance relief uh it's my opinion that that uh variance can be justified under the C1 what we call the hardship variance uh that there are the strict application of your regulations would result in uh a hardship associated with with uh developments to the site the reason for that is that the structure is existing it has been there like I said for nearly 25 years uh we are though slightly lowering that height so we are ever so slightly bringing that non-conforming height towards conformance uh in order to be conforming with your ordinance uh a demolition an entire rebuild would be required and uh it would be my argument that that wouldn't be an appropriate alternative as it wouldn't be sustainable I never recommend the we always say the most Sustainable Building is an existing building uh because it takes up fewer resources to to have to reconstruct uh same U my argument would be the same for the other variants that your planner called out about there being an accessory building on a site where there is no PR principal structure we do have a principal structure it just happens to be in Milburn uh given the nature of golf courses I would argue that the course itself really also doubles and acts not just as a use but almost as as a structure uh but again my testimony would be that the building is existing and and has existed for 25 years so uh we are not changing that condition associated with it uh for both the D variances and the C variances we have to demonstrate that special reasons exist for granting those variances and uh case law tells us that those special reasons are derived from purposes of the municipal land use law uh so if you'll bear with me we have purpose a is to promote and enhance Public Safety and promote the general welfare there's a number of items associated with our presentation tonight that does support uh safety in the general welfare the first being the the restriping of the parking spaces in front of the staff housing it's during my site visit I noticed there was a lot of halfhazard parking happening there this is going to clearly identify where cars should go when they are there where they should Park and we are adding an ADA space which has not existed up until now so we will be bringing that condition into more Conformity additionally as was testified to by myself and the other experts the above ground tanks are far safer than the below ground tanks uh the impetus for this was Al the D and the EPA are requiring kuber Country Club to eliminate and replace those below ground tanks so this will be a safer alternative we're also adding additional storm water managements uh storm water management techniques that do not currently exist on the site so I don't have to tell you zonan board any addition to storm water control for a site with improv coverage is a benefit uh purpose G is to provide sufficient space and appropriate locations for a variety of uses including residential and recreational uh again we are expanding staff housing for a very particular type of residential use and the uh existence of that staff housing is going to support the recreational use of the country club that has been there for over 120 years finally purpose I is to promote a desirable visual environment through creative development and good Civic design uh as could be seen by the rendering that was presented by our architect the building is going to go through a substantial facelift I'll call it uh it is my opinion that what is being proposed is going to be much nicer than what exists now the rendering appears to be more of a carriage home feel whereas the current building very much looks like a storage building even though this building won't be seen by anybody except those uh living there or the occasional golfer who Drives By it is a substantial Improvement uh and the above ground fuel tanks are being constructed in such a manner so as they are pushed into the existing burm to help with uh screening of them and also they're positioned in a way that preserves as many parking spaces as was feasible uh the negative criteria we have to present to you uh we must demonstrate that granting the relief will not cause a substantial detriment to the public good nor will it substantially impair your zoning plan which is your master plan or your zoning ordinance uh the 2000 master plan recognizes uh the canoe BR Country Club as an existing golf course and really uh aims to preserve it with the proper shielding in place from the uh neighboring residentials uh again it's my opinion that our proposed changes are consistent with many goals and objectives as your planner laid out a few in his memo um specifically to promote the development of a variety of housing types and offer a diversity of housing this is where I think the affordable housing broader discussion comes in um by providing housing for our transient staff members they are not taking away other housing units that are available in town for more long-term residents and they will be uh coming in on visas that would probably not support uh a salary that would really allow them to to live close by so they are being provided housing that is Affordable and they are not taking away from other housing units in town I would agree with what your planner said previously in the conversation that happened it would be great if this type of development could be attributed towards the affordable housing conversation and obligation in New Jersey um I I won't go into much detail about that because I'm sure all of the planners in this room could talk about that for a very long time but I do think that we contribute to the broader affordability of the region with this also to balance growth and development opportunities with the established pattern of development uh it's a very established Country Club again we've been here for over aund 20 years I think it was uh and this is going to allow the country crub to grow in a way that will not have a a det to the surrounding area uh which leads me to my last couple points which is that we will not be an impairment to the zoning ordinance both of these are accessory uses that were likely not considered when the golf Zone was first created I couldn't find the original date of the adoption but uh it's been my understanding from uh the applicant and from my own research that this is these are uses that are becoming much more prevalent uh as the previous uh professional noted that the above ground storage tanks are now becoming the standard as they are safer technology has improved greatly uh finally it's my opinion there will be no substantial detriment to the public good uh the conditions on Wallace and woodlon Avenue are not going to change the testimony is that the likelihood of a resident or one of the staff employees coming on these visas to have cars will be very minimal if they do they will be directed towards the Milbourne side and the main gate which is how they handle their current staff that is living here already uh there's no reason that will change there will be no change in any deliveries because those will still be put forth uh at the Milbourne side which is how it is today same with any Uber same with lifts and the a unique characteristic about Cano bur Crunch Club is how it is accessed um from immediately from the turnpike but from Route 24 right there nobody ever has to go through a residential neighborhood uh to get to that main gate uh you're right off the highway so again all of the testimony tonight supports that woodlon and Wallace there will be no change in circumstance to either of those roads um finally just to make notes that all of these improvements are internal to the site they are significant distances from any of the neighboring residents uh and again I I think that all of the improvements here will be an improvement to the to the uh Recreation of the golf club and will not have a detriment on the neighborhood and I'm happy to answer any questions CH thank you uh thank you for your testimony I complete um with regard to the special reasons um can you speak to the general welfare as far as how the site is particularly well suited for the intensification of the use itself um I think he talked about the the uh impact to adjacent roadways and access to the site but just overall with regard to its location and its proximity to other Residential Properties sure so as um can be seen with the aerial image that is up here and is this on okay I know this is a it's a line drawing so it's a little bit hard to see but the uh existing area that's that's lightened here is the existing Disturbed area uh as we testified to the increase in impervious coverage is going to be very minimal so when we're talking about the intensity of the use uh they maintain over 400 70 ft away from the entrance the current entrance to Wallace Road and well over 1,000 ft to Woodline uh which also has a small entrance there uh because of the way the Canoe Brook already controls how their employees access the site and the testimony was that these new employees will be uh always going up to the clubhouse their their Hospitality they're not maintenance staff so they don't need to stay at the maintenance facility which is here during the day they will be headed to other parts of the of the uh golf course they will have absolutely no need to utilize those those two access points so any intensity of the site any uh additional use of the site that might come from these new staff members are all going to be pushed up to the Milburn side they will they're not going to have any kind of impact to the summit side here spec I keep calling out Wallace and and woodon I know there are other roads here but those are the two that create our boundaries uh so any intensity any all of the new intensity again they're going to go through this path up towards the other side of the site so it is my opinion that the additional increase in intensity here is really going to have no impact on Summit Milburn will bear it all for you know they might not like me saying that but that is the truth did that answer their question it did and also wanted to point out but that access occurs through a actual path that goes underneath correct correct yes they don't have to cross over any roadways physical connection and I rode underneath it it's it's very convenient and easy to to go back and forth there no F questions thank you I have no questions for this okay um I have a question uh earlier um someone testified uh that there are 275 to 300 employees now and that um that's probably going to increase to 350 um but we're we're talking about adding housing for 24 employees um and then you mentioned uh you said that these improvements will allow the country club to grow can you explain what you mean by allowing it to grow you know sure and I'll have to defer to the previous witness about the number overall number of employees because I I can't speak to that but when I say grow what I mean from that is they they have a need for these employees that's why they want to build this housing so there is additional and they're going to have to talk to the operations about what these employees would be doing on a day-to-day basis um but they currently are understaffed they they need help with the I'm going to call it the front of the house for a lack of a better term because I know a little bit more about the restaurant world but those front of the house activities up on the Milbourne side at the clubhouse and they obviously this uh golf club is not or Golf Course is not going to grow in square footage the golf course is what it is and it's it's fully surrounded but they do continue to offer additional services to uh all of their members who come and to have the additional seasonal staff would lessen the burden on some of their existing staff and so when I say grow I don't mean a physical footprint footprint growth I mean grow in what they are able to do in the level of service they are able to provide to their members uh the more employees uh the better service they're going to be able to have towards their members well is there any um because going from 50 to 75 more employees based that was what the testimony was um but adding 26 parking spaces um that's not enough parking for the other first that's doesn't seem to be enough parking but also is there is part of the growing increasing membership too because if that's that's where this all you know right if I could just interrupt just for one second there it's not proposed that there's 50 to 70 more employees that are going to be on the summit site there's only proposed to be an additional 2 for employes not living working was the question from 275 to 300 employees now and it and it's going to be moving to 350 employees potentially but I think Albert could clarify I think that it's two different things I think that were happen so we feel when we do our studies that we are optimally performing our best for the members at 350 employees that and where we are deficient currently is in the food and beverage staff Club House staff so front of the house uh servers busers bartenders banquet servers um that sort of position so these 24 beds are in an effort to get us closer to where we want to be certainly it's it's not everything we need to get but it does get us significantly closer the growth of the business is we currently have to limit say the amount of reservations we take on an indiv on a given night because of the amount of staff we have on the floor if we the more staff we have on the floor the more reservations we can take we are not looking to increase the size of the membership we are by our bylaws restricted in the number of members we can have and we are at that number we take in new members every month because we have attrition so it's you know our our new members are replacing members that are either moving away or passing away and we maintain an even number of members that are dictated by our bylaws is that answer question okay any other questions a question yes sir just as you think about um substantial detriment we're basically doubling or overd doubling the number of people who are actually living staff that are living on the course right on the property and today I think all three bedrooms are first floor right so now this is going to be 24 people living on a second floor I've heard that there's a limitation that like guests have to leave by 11 o' but just thinking about neighbors who are a football field plus away what's that experience going to be like for them lights are on up till what time music guests up till 11 o' potentially I know these are going to be hardworking individuals who are probably but still as you think through it if if I'm a neighbor what impact could that have on me uh understand the question uh all both in the Milburn and the summit side currently all of our residents sign a residential agreement that gives the the the different rules the no guests after 11: p.m um no loud music the 24-hour security we have monitors actually our director of security is in charge of all of the uh employee rooms so it is part of the uh security staff that they monitor all of the employee U housing units so there are noise restrictions there are guest restrictions there are dining restrictions there will be traffic restrictions on the south course um a u neighbor asked me uh on break you know what if they don't abide by the rules well then they don't work for us they're they're terminated and they're basically sent home if if they if they're in violation of their h2b or J1 Visa then you know then they're returned home so it is the fact that they're all here working to generate income for their lives they're not going to put that at risk by behaving poorly and if they are they're they're taking care of immediately is that answer to the question you you might as stay there for a second if I could I I just want to add also to that because I think you had a question about lighting as well and it the building is and I I'm assuming this was part of the presentation in 2005 and when they how they chose to orient this building it is short the shortest side shortest side of the building is what's facing towards the residential neighborhood so it is perpendicular and as can be seen in the renderings here there's only two windows that face that side so and there was the only lighting going to be added is emergency lighting so from a lighting perspective I I don't think they're going to see this hardly at all and I do believe that the landscaping that's being planted will eventually grow tall enough that that whole side of the building is going to be screened completely thank you so I'm just going to throw a scenario out here at you so I'm a I have a friend that lives there and I go to the house and it's you know I get there around 9:00 at night do I park on the Milburn side and you drive me over to the house or do I go through the Wallace Road entrance you come through the Milburn side okay so then when I leave I have to go back that way too correct now how about all the employees same thing excuse me all the employees if I want if I'm an employee and I want to go out at 11 o'clock at night okay and do I have to call up for the for the um yes the yes security security if it's after hours Security will come if it's during hours we have transportation whether it be a golf cart or multi uh multi- uh person vehicle that can that can transport are there any employees now that live in that yellow house that have a vehicle in the yellow house yes is it still yellow yes good how many so how many of them have cars currently I would say I think probably no more than three if I'm I'm just going to turn around and look two to two to three max yeah and how do those cars get out after 9:00 they're part of the um Grounds Maintenance staff that we say goes in and out of Wallace they can get out of Wallace after hours that's part of the 20 um not after 9 want to get on 11:00 I got to go to the hospital I'm well it's emergency situation they're calling emergency service I have to go to the hotel to pick up my friend okay then they're going out got get out how am I getting out I have a car how am I going to get out a vehicle can that time of night can Traverse through the golf course go through the tunnel and go out I never knew when okay as a reminder that conditions existing today and not changing and not proposing to be intensified right not proposing to be intensified any other board questions okay any public questions for this the Wallace gate closes at 9:30 period yes period questions from the public questions for this witness yes hi uh Jennifer Joon is 41 Wallace Road hi um the question is probably to both of you it seems like your testify your testimony and support and yours as well is contingent on this International Visa program a lot of the seasonal the parking all of it kind of seems dependent on them but does I haven't is there a plan in place for this do we have any idea if it's going to be we are going to you are going to be successful in entered into that program or there's going to be because it feels like to put up you know a housing unit for 24 people and have no idea if it's going to you're even going to be accepted is big risk yes it is and we're looking to spend quite a large amount of money on this project in an effort to make that program work I can't guarantee that I'm going to fill every bed with an h2b or j1v employee it is our wish it is our desire it's our it's our plan to do that but I can't stand here and guarantee that it will be if it's not and it's filled by someone in New Jersey or in you know surrounding area from New Jersey they will be subject to the same rules as anyone else where they if they have a car it stays on the Milburn side in the employee parking lot there's no travel in and out of the Wallace Road entrance for them that that answer yeah and then I just had one more question question for you you mentioned I can't remember exactly what you said but that had a history of I'm sorry I'm having trouble hearing you I'm sorry can you hear me now all right you you mentioned somewhere in there that kber had a history of Staffing and having success at it but don't you see the difference of going from 3 to 27 significant enough to not really have a history to base that off of that's a good question so yes I what I said was the uh the Staffing in this house was put in in 2005 so that was wor the about almost 20 years came into play and so my point was that uh while we are intensifying the use they have existing experience with staff living at this particular location abiding by these rules that we have spoken to tonight and have had success with that over the last 20 years so there's other parts of my testimony that touched on the intensity of it but just the sheer uh use of a residential at this location has proven success over the last two plus decades and if I could just clarify there's actually nine employees that live on site right now right the six in the other house right and then in Milbourne they also have employee housing so they've had that for years so they have seen how that's been working right don't you see that as a significant increase that could Garner some changes or some implications putting 24 presumably young people on one floor and with you know no kitchen and seem like like a prison not be able to get out as an issue well again as I've testified previously it's not a prison they can come and go as they please and again as I've testified before they are told what the restrictions are upfront they agree to it they sign off on it and if they don't abide by it then they're not not working for us and living there any longer I I understand that but to say that there's a history of that doesn't seem in harest because it's a big difference well I from three in one house to 27 well that's just in one location we have the six employees across and then we have another 12 uh beds on the Milburn side that are all subject to the same rules and we've had success for that for over 25 years so I so I I I I don't anticipate that being an issue any other questions from the public for this witness Paul Paul Dian 61 Wallace Road Summit new Jersey um so you've indicated that you need two use variances today is that correct correct and the use variances are the hardest to get isn't that also correct correct um do you know if the actual notice of the meeting actually says use variant in it anywhere I would have to defer to our legal counsil I did not write it it doesn't it refers to the ordinance uh 70 D1 um that is that is a use variance okay but it doesn't make clear the notification to the neighbors that we receive that you receive any use variance okay not not the commentary questions please it's my opinion that that's sufficient to identify a use variant how was the um density of this building calculated no requ there's no density requirement for this Zone and for several zones in the city so there's no calculation okay that's because it's not a permitted use correct well it's not a permitted use but I would argue there's no density calculation anyways so there wouldn't be a calculation to be not permitted use even if it was I don't believe there would be density calculation so the language that says modification you don't seem too familiar with the uh approval but it says the letter says modification of Prior condition of approval that was not a use variance that was granted it was yes it so if I can I can clarify that a little bit when a use variance is granted for a use and then that uh same use comes back in to expand which is what we are requesting tonight we have to do the exact same process over again so we have to seek another D1 use variance okay and I've heard this referred to as a dormatory are there any more any other dormitories in the city of summit not to my knowledge but that was my testimony which is why this site is particularly suited not just for the use but in association with the principal use that is serving because it would likely not be appropriate anywhere else in Summit and the density you know any other building in Summit that has the density that this building would well to be fair we have 125 Acres so if I were any better at math and could do that Math on the Spot I could tell you it's not a high density but I'm not familiar with the other density standards as I was focused on this Zone would be very density is a not subject of the building it's a matter of dividing the number of units by the number of acres and that is a municipal land use law definition okay and we've heard talk about dormitories and number of units and vetting of people um I would assume most colleges that have d atories vet their students is that correct I can't speak to that and um would you uh could you tell me if college students typically also work besides going to school I'm also not prepared to speak to that with this application okay well you referred to dormatory so and I assume most colleges have difficulties with students who work at their dormitories I just don't see what the relevance is I think it's a completely we're calling it a Dory because of the building style of the architecture we have communal living with no kitchen space and two people per room so that's more associated with the architectural style a dormatory with a college a college is way different from a golf course which I'm not prepared to testify to how colleges function in relation to their dormitories so I would agree with our Council I don't think it's a relevant line of I think I I again I'm not here to testify to a dormatory at a college so I have not reviewed that you heard that it's 155 doubt okay again not a commentary question okay from a planning perspective the size of the room is not unusual for two people to occupy without a kitchen but I'm that's a planning perspective you might have to ask the architect for more specifics on the design itself okay that's wel thank you um any other public questions for this witness if not we move to your summation Okay so um it is requested that the Consolidated application be approved by the board based on the testimony presented this evening which is demonstrated that the site is particularly suited for the employee housing use as it is a use that has been previously approved for this site and is currently and currently exists on site is a common practice for golf clubs based on the current economic environment the high rental prices reduction in inventory lack of transportation and affordable suitable affordable options and it is in close proximity to the employment the fuel storage tanks currently exist on site underground the proposed above ground tanks will hold a net reduction in fuel and as testified to testified to are safer more environmentally friendly easier to Monitor and have a longer lifespan the above ground tanks also provide the ability to identify and address issues immediately as opposed to underground where issues are usually discovered after it's too late for container containment both of the proposed improvements advanc the general welfare and numerous other purposes of zoning as well as many goals and objectives of the master plan and reexamination reports as just described and testified to by the planner the benefits of the proposals far outweigh any potential detriment both projects are located a significant distance from the property lines and are screened by Landscaping in close proximity and at the perimeter of the site so that there will be no visual impact on the surrounding neighbors the existing building will be aesthetically improved the existing height is being reduced storm water management is proposed there is sufficient off street parking and the improvements will not impact surrounding neighbors or roadways for all of these reasons and based on the testimony presented it is requested that the board approve the application thank you at this point uh we will open the floor to the public to tell us what they think of the project and you'll be sworn in for that if anyone would like to make a comment this is now the time to do so if you could please raise your right hand do you swear affirm the testimony you're about to give in this matters the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth yes please state your name spell your last name l gtino g g n t i n o 49 Miles Road thank you I think what what's what we're hearing here is that somebody wants to take and triple the living space that they have here now and they don't want their members to pay for it so they're going to go some kind of a public uh Arrangement here where their members don't have to pay it's cheaper for them the club that way maybe they should add a few members I don't know how you should get it but if people are in business sometimes they got to cut their costs sometimes they got to raise their prices and the club could do the same thing they don't need to trible the amount of people that they have working there under uh very low wages or under by whatever this Arrangement is that they have with the government I I believe you should not allow this to go on it's like they want to just triple the space triple their living space so that they don't have to spend as much money thank you can I just ask Albert to come back no let just let them Mr Orin Gil Oren I'm still at 45 Wallace Road need to swear you and if you could raise your right hand do you swear from the testimony you're about to give in this matter is the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth I do and can you just spell your last name for the record o w n thank you I wanted to clarify an implication that has been made that because it was approved for three uh people uh several years ago by this board that does not mean that four five 6 7 8 9 10 all the way up should be approved I think it's the numbers that is cause causing the problem um and the the the Visa program as I understand it hasn't been implemented where we can be using those people so it's going to be local people and the local people come down Wallace Road on bikes walking and so on I happen to get up early and they are there and they they may not they maybe they shouldn't be doing that you're saying sir my question is that if it's local domestics whatever you want to call it they have to go not if they live in our area over toward Marco Polo they have to go to through the main office the main um entrance they don't go through Wallace Road that's my question sir okay these are comments if if there's a reason for rebuttal we'll give the attorney a chance to answer can I just clar do you mean they bike and they walk on the street yes okay they well they have a bike they have a bike and they have you know lights but they're coming down Wallace toward the entrance at Wallace right now anyway and give you a chance according to your notice it's not because it was done once that for three doesn't mean that 27 can do it which is why we're here I understand but I want to make it clear that there was an implication I think this knows because it happened before it's okay now I think this that caused the problem Gil I think this board knows that okay any other comments Bill J swear again do you swear from the testimon no good I didn't swear you in the first time do you swear from the testimony you're about the K this matters the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth I do please uh spell your last name for the right j a n k o w s k i and address 39 Wallace Road thank you which is two houses away from the entrance into the golf community and when they say they don't need parking it surprises the hell out of me Saturday my wife and I were going to a party we walked out to get in the car 14 cars came out of the entrance on to Wallace Road from the golf course 14 in less than 10 minutes so I don't understand why they don't need more parking or or they're supposed to go up under the highway and out onto the highway um so that that's my worry more than anything is the amount of traffic that comes all out at once and if you're going to have a guest there the guest is going to have a car to get there or an Uber or whatever but there's going to be a car some sort of Transportation um and they're going to do an electric plan for lighting is that what I heard um so the the only lighting that's proposed right now we'll answer those questions afterwards okay you're asking is there a we'll make sure you get an answer before we're done anything else okay um but Cars come out of there in the middle of the night I mean when they make the turn on a golf course their high beams come right into my living room or my bedroom even with the blinds closed so there's some miscommunication with the amount of people that use that entrance that come on to Wallace Road or come down Wallace Road and go into the golf course thank you okay thank you any other comments if you could raise your right hand do you sarir the testimony you're about to give in this matter the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth I do please state your name spell your last name um Paul Dian 61 Wallace Road Summit New Jersey can you just spell the last name please Dian de h n thank you I wasn't really familiar with the um application until just three recently uh did not understand the import of it and uh but seeing it tonight I bought a home on Woodland across from a golf course I didn't buy a home across from a dormatory and the house is perfectly clearly visible from the street in terms of traffic on the street there's employees going in and out of Wallace Road regularly I believe employees also have a code to open the gate to come out on Wallace so they can do that anytime they want so I can only tell you that that's the traffic that's going on now and Wallace is a beautiful Street for people their kids riding bikes for people walking their dogs and it it's a beautiful neighborhood but there will be traffic caused by this but my biggest concern is the density it's not fair to anybody including anybody in this town to allow a density of 155 Fair square feet of living space with no justif base justifiable basis other than the the uh Club thinks it's a good idea the number shouldn't be that number it should be a definitely a smaller number number one number two if there is any approval granted it should be conditioned that they always have to come back here for another use variant because you're opening up the doors for additional housing units on the site the golf Zone did not permit that it was supposed to be golf only and those are my thoughts on the project and uh thank you for your hard work thank you Paul yes Jamie Janowski 39 wall and if you could raise your right hand do you swear firm the testimony you're about to give in this matter is the truth the whole truth nothing but truth I do thank you Jamie Jackowski 39 Wallace Ro I only have one statement to make when Cano Brook has their events their entire staff parks on our street we can't even get out of our driveways or drive two cars coming face to face it's it's not what I purchased two and a half years ago never thinking that a golf course I love the fact the golf course was across the street but now now I'm starting to think about why I went there thank you okay any other public yes sir you want a second shot at the Apple okay um we give every go ahead you're under oath Paul D in 61 Wallace Road Sumer New Jersey um again going back to my uh comment if the application to be approved my big which I'm not necessarily opposed to the golf course needing to do their their job my only issue is 24 units for that building is much too high so I'd ask that any restriction any approval just reduce the number of units to something livable for us and that's all any other public comments o sorry sorry hi if you could raise your right hand do you sore from the testimony you're about to give in this matter the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth I do please state your name spell your last name uh Jenny Jennifer jitas j o i NN DS I guess my only comment is in kind of support of the other residents on Wallace Road um that my major concern is traffic I have two young kids and the the appeal of Wallace Road is that it is a beautifully quiet street and we ride bikes and we rollerblade and we do all that stuff and I ALS and despite what what is said to believe about the traffic on Wallace there are cars coming in and out there all night and given that I think people think it's a quiet street they tend to speed and that is my biggest concern my other concern is that as somebody said that it kind of opens the door the the intention of you know the international students and and you know seasonal living isn't isn't necessarily unappealing but it's that that could open the door for just a Perpetual people in and out of there at all times and that's what worries me I think it will change the makeup of the neighborhood that's it thank you any other public comments okay last chance okay I believe there were some questions that were asked that you may wish to respond to Yes um okay so for the light can you just um clarify Kyle the the lighting that's being proposed um yes into a into a microphone all and then for both projects what is the lighting that's being proposed okay Kyle Smith um so for the employee housing project there's only one wallmounted light that's being proposed to be added to the one entrance to the building um and for the uh above ground storage tank there's sight lighting proposed to be in the direct area of the um of the tanks just safety lighting and it will comply with the ordinance and be reviewed by the engineer that is correct and that would be a condition yes okay okay um and then Albert Albert costantini first um the wages does cano Brook offer competitive wages I mean these people are not working for free correct Cano Brook uh we are a non- tipping club uh throughout the club so our starting salary for uh front of the house staff uh is in the $18 to $20 an hour range which I believe is significantly higher than what minimum wagees right um and obviously you don't have an issue with your employees biking or walking on Wallace Road like other residents in the neighborhood correct a lot of a lot of that traffic that's coming in and out of Wallace Road from employees are the grounds maintenance staff uh that you know come to come to that side uh and walking and bicycle riding is is a big part of that and and the people that are coming in and out are part of the 20 cars that you had mentioned that do come in and out of the site every day correct and the gate is closed at 9:30 gate is closed at 9:30 um does it ever open after 9:30 I can't answer that definitively but it is closed at 9:30 and that is that is our policy okay um and then with regard to on the events and people parking on Wallace Road oh um so there are several times a year where we do large charitable functions over uh in the clubhouse uh that take at least every spot of parking that we have on the property so we reach out to Summit Police Department and ask for permission to do employee parking on Wallace Road and then we bust them from that area over to the clubhouse um that does happen sporadically throughout mostly during the summer hours um that's when we have a lot of our large like I said charitable uh events both on the golf course and in the the ballroom and you run that by the summit Police Department we we get permission to do that every time we need it okay I would also like to comment on a a comment that was made about the members not wanting to pay for for this this entire project is paid for by member money whether it be dues or or assessments we don't look for any public support for uh you know for paying for these projects any projects we do is all paid for by the members because it is for the members from your familiarity with the uh Visa programs is that are there any federal funds in included in that or not no federal funds you know there's no dollars there no we actually it costs us to get involved in that program and what would your comment be about the comment that uh your employees have the code and use it and then anytime they want well there's a code that that they need to use on the outside to get in the from inside to get out it's a motion uh sensor that's what gets turned off at 9:30 at night so um I can't again I can't definitively say I'm not out there all hours of the night but you know with to my knowledge it's not happening just wanted to give you the chance to answer that and as a condition of approval um would you agree to um make it so that if you um are coming in and out just as you've testified too they have to go through the Milburn site yes okay and that condition would be specific to the employees that are proposed to live in that building not the main specific to that side period Well M no like the the actual workers that work on the maintenance and grounds that are coming in and out every day that work on that that's daytime we're talking night time that should still be allowed to but not nighttime I well some of those workers leave at night but before :30 after the clocks change and it's getting dark at 4:30 5:00 at night the the gate doesn't lock until 9:30 so we could have staff working in the uh in the shops working on the equipment doing different things in the in the shop where they're leaving after it gets dark so I it can't be a it's not an after dark thing it's an after after 9 o' yes sir or 9:30 whatever can I ask the applicant one question sure uh Mr castino I I forget the exact wording but the these 24 or whatever the number is people you get through these Visa programs I believe you said they won't have cars are you just assuming they won't have cars or is that part of the well depending on you know that these employees they could be coming from South Africa Eastern Europe Ireland um nor the Norwegian countries that could be coming from South America they're they're not shipping cars over here with them for the limited amount of time that they're here but I mean theoretically I grant you're not paying them a lot of money couldn't they theoretically lease a car or have I'm I don't want to talk theoretically okay they they could and again there's 26 spaces on site 20 are being used by the employees there's additional parking on the Milburn site and they would agree to come in and out of that site okay all right anything else you wish to comment on uh no that's it okay then the hearing would be at this point closed and uh I will turn to our attorney for conditions and votes I have require quite a few conditions um so first we have our usual compliance with all those conditions noted in the board Engineers memorandum second is that a lighting plan will be submitted to the board engineer for review and approval excuse me I can try to speak up so second we have a lighting plan will be submitted to the board engineer for review and approval third a storm water management plan which will in include a dryw to accommodate at least 458 Square ft of lot coverage will be submitted to the board engineer for review and approval fourth revised plans which incorporate screening of the fuel storage will be submitted to the city Forester for review and approval fifth the applicant will submit the proposed plans to the fire chief for review and approval uh sixth an alarm will be installed to monitor the fuel system which will be transmitted to both maintenance and security personnel and seventh um and I'll just ask Miss s to confirm that this is the correct understanding here the employees living in the proposed 24 units Must ALL use the Milburn entrance and exit correct so yes anything else you remember that was a condition um The Bike Rack did you want to look into a bike rack something had to do with a bike rack I would I would recommend that to the board that if you to this that I think you should add some bike racks in seems more reasonable yeah especially with the number of Stolen Bikes I've heard of like recently so add that as a condition is that what the suggestion is that's the suggestion yes and do we want to put a number I mean is there a recommendation for I I don't have a recommendation I mean I'm thinking if you're going to have 24 beds I don't know that you need I think you need at least I think you need at least half maybe yeah maybe 12 okay no there's no no no further testimony from the spr not a testimony it's a question no not question no answers no nothing this is now our discussion not even your attorney is permitted to give us accept to acqu yes yes or no okay Joe before we move on chairman wasn't there a discussion about the Revis the plan for the traffic flow that's correct that they uh the uh for the around the U parking around the the tanks and part of that may be by the fire chief appar and also the fire chief um getting a report from the fire chief which you did agree to we right I think he said that one yeah I have a general submission of proposed plans to the fire chief for review and approval but we'll also note a specific correction the indication of traffic flow which will include emergency apparatus right and again just to clarify the the plans were submitted to the fire department but we will yes we know it's been submitted okay Mr chairman sorry um regard can I offer one thought on the resolution go it had to do with the uh The Spill detection alarm I think it was going to be connected to the that's correct yes the spill connection that that was my sixth condition that the the alarm will be installed to monitor the fuel system which will be transmitted to maintenance and security personnel sorry about that okay I missed that one too okay could there be any condition that The Residency or the occupancy of these units be uh not permanent I'm sorry not what do not turn into a permanent V yes we will uh I'm sure that'll be part of our discussion with we're just trying to make sure we get we get on the record those conditions that have been discussed now if we want to add more we can uh um and we'll get to that in discussion um my as I told as I mentioned early I personally think that we need to consider these even though they were submitted together um they're two very distinct and different applications or items and I almost feel like we should discuss them separately and perhaps we should start with the tanks and uh does anybody uh wish to start the discussion on the uh request for the approval for the tanks yeah that's an easy one for me I mean the the tanks you know there's been testimony that the the tanks are at the end of her useful life which we have no basis to doubt but I'm sure I fully accept that that's probably true um and I know we've had this discussion before that above ground tanks are safer than in ground tanks so I I think that's a very good argument uh why they should be above ground um I I I didn't pick up until we saw the drawing tonight that they're going to be kind of recessed into that BM so I think that's a very positive step and the landscaping around there subject to the approval of the uh of the um Forester is is is a good move um you know I tend to worry about things like tanks but it it seems like the safety has been addressed as much as as we can um you know they've said it's safer and I the experts say it's safer so I guess I will believe that um I'll be happier once the fire chief uh assuming the fire chief has no problems with the access got there is a fire or other concerns that uh he that the fire department feels safe with that if they do have concerns obviously the applicant would have to comply with whatever the fire chief says so that that's I think that's understood um you know I I I think they've met their proofs on that that it's it's it's it's it's safer has a positive impact from safety point of view um and it's it's well screened um you know make make for better operation of the of their systems so I I can definitely support the tank don't have a problem with the tanks anyone else wish to comment uh I I don't have problem with the tanks but I have problem with ignoring any other uh source of energy on a 124 acre Land There are opportunities to solar and uh and other sources of energy that were not uh considered so I don't have problem with the tanks but I I see this as a source of energy that could be uh replaced otherwise I wouldn't stop this uh you wouldn't stop the tanks but the tanks you like them to consider doing some other consider other sources of energy I wondered where the electric uh charging stations were for the 26 cars um anyway anybody else have on the tanks I support the tanks I think it's a move in the right direction and every everybody gets a chance to talk so reducing the volume of the tanks is also positive right am of storage on the site so yeah and apparently it's one tank now that's separated into two things now you have two separate tanks which should be better um you know more about thans than I ever will it's it's it's half the volume that's how I see it to okay any other comments on the tanks all right let's then I think we have some consensus there um and we can decide in a few minutes whether we want to vote on them individually or if we want to have a combined motion um who would like to start on the on the uh dwelling units uh I'll start thank you um first I I mean it's a it is a huge change to go from 3 to 27 um there you know I think this happens often there's there's reference to this board approved it's not this board it's not and I say that specific to these people sitting here it was a board in 2005 and you know we know that standards change over the years um so I I that's not super compelling to me that three are approved have already been approved to go to 27 I'm also not sure it advances the purpose of zoning um it's advancing it for a private use not a public use all of these people are being brought in for a private purpose and there's also been a lot of testimony that most of the other golf courses house their their employees offsite um I to me it doesn't matter who's paying for that housing whether it's the golf course or the employees like if you're bringing them over and you want them to pay for their housing then you have to pay them that wage or whether you offer them off-site housing as part of the package sometimes that's probably part of I believe that is part of the Visa process um I I'm just not sure that it's it's not you know super compelling to me the all also you know to be honest there's no kitchen you have 27 people living in a building with access to two meals a day I I this is this is our executive session so please just let me talk um I just I find it it it's just very challenging also I think it while the planner said that there aren't many places in Summit where this could um happen this dormatory situation um I do think it sets a precedent and we do hear often people come in and say there's a precedent set my neighbor my this this street I it's it's a pretty big precedent and to go from 3 to 27 is it's a little too big a change for me so I I do just want to clarify quickly legally there's no precedent from the prior approvals on this site or approvals from other sites you know every application we've said it before it stands on its own based on the testimony that's been presented to us this evening they're seeking the D1 use variants for the particular you know additional 24 units that they're seeking tonight so um don't don't get bound up by what has happened in the past we are looking at this fresh this evening right and so looking at it fresh I see um I just don't see the case as for the advancing the public good so it seems like it advances a PR private purpose but that's what I that's all I have yeah um I mean I would yes sir I would just add I mean the benefits i' I heard you know strip parking handic handicap parking spot um putting the tanks aside for a second storm water control I mean not super compelling benefits and I think most of the benefits are are to the club themselves um I'm not not necessarily against it but I think the the word density came up and maybe we're not using it in the right term but I think there's a general feeling that you know I think 150 square F feet includes common space so it would be the living space would even be tighter for um 24 people and I really didn't hear much around well maybe we could do 15 or 12 or not sure what the right number would be um so I'm not necessarily against adding living space for employees it's just a matter of it feels like cramming 24 people in i' almost rather see a kitchen right so um it just feels more natural um to me at least so um just just my general thoughts yeah Joe so I I I can't say I've made up my mind about this one yet because I you know I I think I was concerned about the comments it's not really a direct answer but it did sound like most other country clubs do this offsite but on the other hand the applicant testified that they have the space and maybe other country clubs don't I don't know if that's true but that was the testimony so they they certainly have the space for it you know just the physical space um you know and I I you know it's um I'm really betwix in between because it does sound like a large increase we have the testimony from the applicant that the the the people who live there won't be or will be required to access not through uh Wallace Road gate but through the through the country main Country Club so that you know should address that concern if that's actually how it's going to work um I think the design is good I think the build if we were just looking at as a building you know it's it's it's it's a better it's probably going to be a more attractive building than what's there now it's not a sign it's not an increase in footprint at all except for the outside staircase um uh um so in that sense I'm not going liy but it's it's just the the increase in employees the number of people that that gives me pause um you I just I'm sure the applicants in good faith saying that they won't be going out Wallace Road and they sounds like they probably won't have cars they're going to be you know even though you're paying them a generous hourly rate it's not you know it's not not people going to buy people aren't going to go out and buy a car because when they're here free year some of them might lease the car rent the car occasionally I just have concerns about the number of employees wish I could be more coherent about it than that but that's it's what it comes down to here's some things that concern me uh this is right from the the applicant itself The Proposal provide sufficient off street parking unless there's an event so then you have proper off off street parking they end up parking on Wallace Road proposal is reducing the height of the building by by how much six inches proposals providing housing to employees of the club which will provide sufficient space in appropriate locations for variety of residential recreational uses and open space in order to meet the needs of all New Jersey citizens there's a proposal that we're not even going to hire New Jersey Citizens We're going to use the Visa program but how do all the New Jersey residents benefit from this propos this this application I that's kind of that's what I'm struggling with um it is a private entity asking for an increase uh I don't disagree with my cohort here maybe a smaller number would be better um but I'm I'm struggling as well as you know miss my cohort over there is with with the number of people uh I can tell you from experience it's been a while but I've uh frequented some of those houses there a long time ago and uh now with the new with the new requirements there that's good but I know years ago they weren't there so there are always those outliers but those three things you know it's it's supposed to benefit the entire um community and I don't think it does so just keep in mind if I can um the applicants have presented the argument that there is a shortage of housing in New Jersey in general so that this will benefit new the New Jersey housing market by providing those additional units at a lower price point than what they could get off site somewhere else so keeping that in mind in our deliberation sure and just one comment about the event parking I think the event parking is going to happen whether they get approved tonight or not I mean the event parking As I understood Mr Constantine's testimony that's related when they have a big outing on the golf course or a big charity event at at the main building they go to the police department police department I don't know if they ever say no but they at least go to the police department say we need this parking on Wallace Road I think that's GNA happen whether we approve this tonight or not so I don't think that's I do kind of wonder if they do it that they alternate between mbour and here thata why why would that neighborhood always have to be the recipient of that event of the part we don't know it we don't know there's always Tennison Tennison Road you're right uh anyway um only because I lived on it for years um I do want to tell the board and I've forgotten if we mentioned it or not but the based on these variances this would require five affirmative votes so do you have something you want I just have one thing and I it has to do with the kitchen the reason there's no kitchen is it's a condition of appr there is no kit because from the prior approval that was a condition of approval right we know that okay and actually you wound up doing a deed restriction over it if I no the the deed restriction was to deed restricted to never be single family okay okay um I have to tell you that I'm I have issues with the size of this um these are two people in a room you get up and you kind of like fall into the other bed um which is dormitories you know College college rooms and I I I know the kids down the Shore do it uh on the V on those visas and they have a grand time but you know they're down the shore they have great great things I don't know how you do that in a golf course um I don't know I'm not not not 100% sure that I can support the size of this I think it uh again I joined my fellow if it were a number that was a little bit smaller and differently designed I think we could perhaps EAS more easily move forward with it um and uh there's nothing to stop them from coming back down the road if it's a booming success uh to perhaps add more down the road in another location or other other places um go ahead so um based on what the board is saying the applicant is willing to um look at the number and come back with a revised number so you would like us to table this portion of it housing yes and but if you could do we have another date that we can hear this on I know you're going to hate me right I mean it should be pretty quick it's just going to be you know yeah I know I know what little quick means 6 hours later uh are we looking at January I mean everything is pretty packed up until February 19th that's the only thing so you're looking at next year um okay February 19th would be something we could do but we can move ahead with the tanks which is I think something that you d and a lot of other people would like to see safely done uh at an earlier date bifurcate the conditions then too right we have exactly so I would entertain a motion to approve the tank relocation with the various conditions that apply to it which where at least the fire department the Forester and what else lighting plan um her letter as it effects to them yes and the alarms the the alarms being connected to maintenance and security Personnel uh the screening will be reviewed by City Forester and that should do it circulation revised uh yes circulation plan yeah ju just a quick thought if they were to come back with a smaller number of bedrooms it would change the number of parking spots that would be required would that change the placement of the tanks are you comfortable with where the tanks are we're comfortable with where they are yeah okay I would entertain such a motion if there one I will move approval of the fire tank uh resolution the gas fuel tank resolution the tanks tanks tank and Diesel I'm obsessed with the fire s is there is there a second we got one from Miss Don thank you okay Mr Yugo yes Mr Nelson yes Miss Don yes Mr Kieran yes Mr Malay yes Mr Chuli yes chairman Steiner yes the motion carries I would then accept a motion to carry this particular uh case as far as the building for expansion of housing until February 19th with no further notice and that you will grant us the ability to extend the time the board has to act yes I'll make a motion to extended to February 19th second Mr Yuko yes Mr Nelson yes Miss Don yes Mr Kieran yes Mr Malay yes Mr Chan Chuli yes chairman Steiner yes the motion carries thank you uh as you leave we have additional business to go through so we will move on to resolutions for approval so the first resolution we have is 23 Cromwell Parkway that's block 1802 Lot 36 zb- 24-22 Maximillian and Carolyn leafrank our eligible voting members are chairman Steiner Vice chairman lits Mr Yuko Mr Nelson Miss Don Mr Karen and Miss toad can we have a motion so move um I'm G to take Mr Yugo in a second second done okay thank you chairman Steiner yes Mr Yuko yes Mr Nelson yes Miss Don yes Mr Kieran yes the motion carries and we have a I'm sorry we just need a little quiet folks we need we need to thank you uh what do we have and the extension an extension from the LEF Franks no 16 Edgewood Road wrong one okay 16 Edgewood okay so that's a brief description the applicants there we approved this uh back in January of this year basically right before we started doing the 2-year uh time frames for getting building permits they just missed that cut off so they only had a one year time frame to get the permit they are doing this Construction in phases they've completed their first phase I think they're in the middle of their second phase and the Final Phase is the addition that they plan to have plans for by this winter and get the construction permit by spring or the summer so they're asking for that one-ear extension which would bring it in line with what we're basically doing now as a matter of practice anyway make a motion to approve second okay second second okay chairman Steiner yes Mr Karen yes Mr Chuli yes Mr Yuko yes Mr Nelson yes Miss Don yes Mr Malay yes the motion carries all right so and the most extensive set of minutes of Nine Pages I've ever seen that's what's up um okay so next we will we'll do the minutes yep that is from from October 21st yep so we will exclude the members who were not present that evening which is me miss joh Mr Kieran Mr feskin and chairman Steiner do we have a motion so moved okay and a second second okay all those in favor I any opposed okay the motion carries um the last thing I have on here um I sent an email about the calendar for 2025 as I'm running out of dates to schedule anything on so I just wanted to add our March and April dates and I sent those out to you um I have March 3rd 2025 March 17th 2025 and then I have April 7th and April 21st for 2025 did anyone see any issue with any of those dates guess that's not a look any Irish people in there some might want to be Irish so are we thinking spring break might be a problem I think someone told me that they did look into it for me and try to remember who it was I think I think Miss toast had mentioned that if I'm not mistaken she gets these actually it doesn't actually anyway I don't think it was uh conflicting with it to be honest do you think we'll have a full set by next time um um it depends on Council to be honest to see if I have council chambers um so I what I will do is I'll check back with them to see where they're at with their schedule and then if I can move forward okay but they did give they did everybody look at these dates because we're going to try and do as many of them as we can by next meeting okay that's then you want approval toight I did I actually did if that is possible if you guys are comfortable with that we could always if we approve them this evening we can also you know amend them later if something comes up well my only concern is if we have a spring vacation in there I don't think it is and I don't know all right well okay why don't we move these dates and we can always change them name next time thank you that would be great can I have a motion so moved okay and a second second okay voice phone don't usually do aoll do aoll call just to be safe yeah okay chairman Steiner yes Mr Yuko yes Mr Nelson yes M zon yes Mr Kieran yes Mr Malay yes Mr Chuli yes the motion car and at our next meeting we will have an executive session immediately afterwards covering two issues including our Professionals for next year and uh a request from misson to discuss another issue so we will have that meeting then plus our regular agenda yeah so plan to be here early what minutes from a seven oh I didn't sign those no because that was when uh oh sorry it's any constellation spring break I looked it up is between our two April meetings so perfect yeah that's I thought we were okay may maybe March 18th instead of the 17th we'll figure it out next time I was joking not here we go I mean it is St Patrick's a do we have a problem with the 17 any Irish people here not me anyway that we there is one okay thank thank you all and at 11:05 we are a Jour all those in favor say I good night