##VIDEO ID:WmMsS07bfwE## e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e looking to see you did it again there call this meeting to order if I can good evening welcome to this November 19th 2024 meeting of the city of summit Zoning Board of adjustment I'm Joe Steiner and I chair the board and uh we have got one chalk full of agenda tonight so uh we started I think a minute early uh please rise and join me in the uh Pledge of Allegiance I pled to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liy and justice for all thank you in accordance with the New Jersey statute 10 col 4-10 adequate notice of this meeting has been provided to a newspaper of record and has been posted here in City Hall this meeting is a Judicial proceeding any questions or comments must be limited to the issues that are relevant to what the board May legally consider in reaching a decision and decorum appropriate to a Judicial hearing must be maintained at all times for the benefit of the interested public this meeting is being live streamed to the city's YouTube page and also broadcast on summit's governmental Channel which is Comcast 34 and veran channel 30 a transcript of this meeting is also being taken using the video and audio so we need all speakers to utilize one of the microphones here in the room please note that the fire Act are to my right your left and at the back of the room where you entered the city does have a listening system to assist the hearing impaired if anyone needs that hearing system uh please obtain it here at the dis and return it thereafter Miss secretary would you please call the role sure chairman Steiner here Vice chairman Lett here Mr Yuko here Mr Nelson here miss Zan here Mr Kieran is expected but he's not yet present Mr Malay here miss to is excused miss chfo here Mr feskin here Mr Chuli here you have a quarum you may proceed thank you Andy ball is the City Zoning Board attorney and he is excuse this evening and we are pleased to have Dennis Galvin as his substitute Mr Galvin was the board's attorney for nearly a decade uh he will advise the board members on matter of Law and he along with Mr ball are the key interface with the applicants attorneys Mr galin does not vote on the application Stephanie suio whom you just met is a city employee and is a zoning board secretary she works with applicants on preparing applications planning our agendas and keeping our meeting minutes she also does not vote on the applications also present are our experts who are hired annually by the board to provide input to the board tonight we have Marie rafy from colar engineering and Ed snikes from Burgess Associates our board planner these experts are seated at the table to the right of the board The public's left they also do not vote on the applications our board consists of seven regular members and up to four alternates all members can participate in the hearings tonight about a maximum seven will be allowed to vote most applications require a simple majority to be approved and before we enter executive session to vote on an application you will be advised how many votes are required um we have three large cases on our agenda tonight and in order to facilitate the number of cases we're going to provide an equal amount of time to each applicant this evening and then carry the case to a special meeting on December 9th in that way we hope to get all of these cases completed in 2024 relieving the pressure of what appears to be a jam schedule for 2025 in each case will begin with the applicant's attorney giving an overview and update of the application process to date and the variances that are required we then hear from additional expert witnesses that the applicant may have to help explain the application and why the variances are needed the board members may ask questions of the applicant the attorney and the expert Witnesses once the board members and the board professionals have completed their questioning we will allow the public to ask questions this is not a time to tell us what you think about the case that opportunity comes a little bit later uh but what you can do is ask questions and we ask you to please be careful as how you phrase your questions they should not be proceeded with a statement about the case but should be direct questions to the witness also before you ask your questions please clearly state your name spell your last name provide your address it is important for our court report order to be able to keep a clear and accurate public record after all the witnesses have been heard members of the audience have their second opportunity as promised to speak and you can then express your opinion positive or negative about the application the public hearing is then closed and we enter in what is called executive session where the board members discuss the case and vote you'll be able to listen to that executive session but you will not normally be able to participate in our discussion uh the City Zoning officer has asked that we remind the applicants that they must clear carefully read the resolution that documents the board's decision and to pay particular attention to the conditions that may be contained in that resolution for example of a landscaping plan is required you must obtain one and submit it to John linsen who was the city's Forester if a grading plan is required you must have one prepared by a city engineer and submit three copies along with the application fee to the city's engineering division failure to satisfy all conditions in an engineering division um will uh cause all kinds of problems for the uh staff and will delay in the approving of your application the resolutions documenting the board's decision are normally available one month after we decide a case and we will begin tonight with 479 mark Avenue all Mr chairman far away good evening folks for the record Larry C on behalf of the applicant for 79 Morris LLC Mr chair members I think you have a pretty stacked evening I know you're spting theight judiciously among the applicants so I'll be brief in my prop or I'll let you folks know what it is that we're doing here who you'll hear from tonight and then we'll go from there with our first and three Witnesses thank you so the property just for the record is 477 to 479 Mars Avenue uh it's block 507 L 5 which just under 10,000 ft of land area this at one point had been two lots you can tell if you've inspected the site or you've seen it on the plans that this had once been a essentially the visible vacant lot uh bounded on the sidey yard by a structure pinched over in the corner of the lot on the other side so we have a void on this property it has since merged um probably by way of common ownership the City Records ultimately reflected as a single lot so the application before the board is to subdivide this back into a total of two lots to fill that void where there is nothing there today with a three- family structure very similar to what you see along the corridor now on the streetscape now very similar to what the applicant currently owns and operates on the property today um what brings us before the board here is there's D relief associated with that we are not proposing to activate the first floor with a commercial use the first floor is proposed to be residential use the Zone requires the first floor to be a commercial component of the use with the mixed use residential above we're proposing simply residential which is what exists next door exists several places along the corridor here on our side of the street and the other side nevertheless it triggers D relief uh there's also D relief technically for the expansion of a pre-existing non-conforming use relative to the ex existing house now we're making that a lot smaller we're bisecting it there's case law on that that says that's enhanced relief you're intensifying the use so that is technically the other aspect of the D relief very limited bulk relief it essentially impacts only us between our two lots that we're proposing it has to do with parking lot uh percentage of development and then the buffer between the property lines I'll let our project engineer call those out shortly our project planner will justify them and that brings us to our witness deck Mr chairman and members 3x experts you're going to hear from our project engineer first John fan of E2 PM he's the scrier of record of the site plans before the board we'll walk through the property what's there today the Delta of what's changing and where relief is triggered um time permitted we're going to go to our project architect Rob Forbes we'll walk you through the elevation the floor plans as well as the enhancements we're going to propose and provide for the existing house that's there right now today and then again time permitted our project planner Paul Ricky will testify to the variance proof we think it's a very appreciable and justifiable case nevertheless we have to our case before the board supports and we'll do that uh this evening if uh if the clock is looking good for us Mr chairman okay any questions for the attorney none go ahead and proceed to your first question thank you sir so I'll call John forany our project engineer is our first Witness John raise your right hand do you swear or affirm the testimony about the giveness matters the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do state your full name for the records by your last name yes John Fang f as in Frank e r r g and you're a licensed professional engineer yes I am and uh you've been practicing for a considerable length of time all right uh tell us three boards you appeared before recently yeah the most recent ones are marown Morris Township Chad and B Chad Town chairman do we accept his credentials I believe unless anyone has any problems we do and the handheld does work if you just you could turn it on just switch it on thank you no problem and John just to confirm your license is still current in a good standing as of today right yes good accept it Mr chairman yes thank you okay John you heard my profer to the board and you know we're sort of up against the clock here we have the benefit of the board reports a decent amount of time pass since uh we've been de complet in here if you wouldn't mind I don't think we're going to Mark anything with this witness Mr chairman either okay so everything you're going to see tonight is already on file with the board um John if you wouldn't mind walking the board through the existing conditions and then the proposed uh just for the record the the drawings that you have in front of you are revision D dated March 7 2024 I have the drawings here that I can put on the board uh I I have a colorized version I'm not sure if the board uh has colorized version colorized version we have to uh introduce it we'll just call it A1 all the drawings for the full set just submit the whole set to us as A1 no so the full set will be A1 thank you yes colorized version with the colorized you're going to show us the colorized drawing right correct that'll be A2 very good and uh if you give me a bear with me for a second I'll uh the drawings up where would you like me to stand on this side or take the microphone with you I I will should stay where he is over that's the mic I'll just provide a a quick overview of the drawings that uh I've indicated the this is the title sheet figure one revision D which provides the uh the tax map overlaying on the aial and uh and the zoning we are in the B2 Zone and we're bordered with the r10 Zone the residential Zone to the north uh just to to orient the board we're on Morris Avenue we have a car dealership to our immediate uh West Side uh our neighbor to the left lot six is a mixed use residential we are lot five and four in fact uh the tax map still shows the lot five as uh two lots but it is a single lot know as uh noted as the lot excuse me lot five uh to our to to the east of us we have two two smaller Lots uh lot three and two with with residential uses a a three family use across the street we have residential diagonally across the lot sizes are are pretty uh slightly larger uh than ours but it in essence what I'm trying to demonstrate and we have offices so the commercial Corridor is uh has residential on both sides so what we're proposing for you to here tonight is that we're in keeping with the car there to the rear we have the uh oratory uh High School uh parking lot uh but it is a uh it's part of the r10 the we're fortunate that as far as in the B2 Zone all a lot of the the typical uh bulk table we meet all the requirements in fact uh uh lot area lot width minimum yard uh requirements in the frontage lot Max maximum lot coverage building coverage and height so with that I'll I'm going to turn to the existing condition drawing which is figure two and you see the lot five which uh is the entire lot which we will subdivide by uh creating two equal equal size Lots the existing residential three story residential three fames on the east side and uh we we're proposing minimal changes uh to the to the existing uh residental structure we uh we have we remove only two threes and then as as I'll show in my Landscaping we are providing a a considerable amount of landscaping to uh to Shield proposed use uh uh also very important this lot has parking in the front yard which we know that uh the summit does not uh uh favor parking in the front yard and we we're going to correct that condition as well as there is only one curve cut for the entire lot and we're maintaining a single curve cut with that I'm going to turn to figure three which is the site plan as indicated we are proposing the new structure sort of equal in size and height roughly the the in the same just slightly smaller actually than the uh existing house but in essence we're proposing a single driveway uh We've uh were able to uh uh make the the size of the driveway larger larger than a typical 12 12T but it'll be a two-way two-way traffic to the rear we do meet the parking requirements and and we were able to place all the parking in the rear single curve cut uh we uh we're setting the uh existing structure back nine less just slightly under the 10 ft from the prop from the rideway line property line and we providing all these stor Water Management uh the the board engineer did comment on the potential conflict with a car entering the site and a car exiting the site uh we uh we would uh uh require the parking uh anyone leaving the parking lot to to yield to the incoming traffic so we don't create a problem with the on on Morris Avenue uh also even though we have a a parking lot to the rear we are providing a a 40 40 inch tall uh a solid fence on both sides with fence with a gate to get to the back and a six foot board on board fence to the to the rear and I'll with that I'll uh present the uh the next drawing which is the the grading plan this the site does slope to the rear so we're capturing all the storm water from the site both the roof the parking to the rear on the two dry Wells for lot and to catch bases in the rear and all that water will be brought back to the to the spor water uh uh drywalls lighting obviously we went with uh the parking lot with the low bers primarily to to also Shield we take the neighbor the neighbors from uh any like uh encroachment we do meet the lighting standards at the property line so we went with the ballets as you see there we have the detail and the rest of the the fixtures the the type fixures are buildon fixtures all the fixtures we're proposing are docar compliant and we're proposing a the fixture to be 3,000 Kelvin which is under the 3500 Kelvin that the the township required as far as uh uh Landscaping you see you're providing a considerable amount of uh uh trees in the front three in the front for each lot and uh six in the rear and we uh we did receive comments from the the for the city Forester and he provided good comments and we would uh stipulate that we can meet and incorporate those comments uh as when we revised the drawing but we are providing uh Shrubbery on uh as a buffer and the other thing that uh I I'll talk about the variances but I think our attorney did cover some of them but I will address them as well we uh we have to meet soil erosion sediment control we are greater than the 5,000 square ft and uh obviously as far as the going back to parking we are requir six spaces and we are adding uh electric vehicle spaces in the parking lot so that theoretically gives us a a bonus of an additional space so theoretically seven spaces but we do meet the required six spaces and uh and but we are providing also the EV EV spaces regarding EV spaces since this is a private lot private lot it will be controlled by the uh by the uh uh the owner of the two buildings as far as assigning the electric vehicle it's they're not uh electric vehicle public spaces for the public to come in and utilize those spaces but so if uh if the uh the r the rent ERS have electric vehicles they'll be accommodated by that if not then those spaces can be used uh as parking spaces as far as the uh the uh the uh the variances the the one variance is has to do with these the we are required to have 9 by 18 parking spaces and to be able to for us what we did to to maintain the the buffer we have 5 foot buffer around the parking lot we uh we have slightly substandard spaces that we're requesting a variance instead of 9 ft we have 8 and 1/2 ft uh we were given a common to utilize uh uh air pin striping in the lot which we have provided and revised the drawing the lot is relatively flat flat so the amount of grading is very little and uh the other variance is uh as indicated is the use variant of to the residential use on the first floor and the third variants uh well lot lot five has an additional variance of a uh expanding in a a use that's not a non-compliant use but the in essence uh going back to the figure one which is a title sheet uh we we as I said we meet the parking we were taking care of the drainage and we size range um much larger than it would have to be as far as what the city required the the board engineer has commented it and uh and they've agreed with our uh sizing and calculation so the again just to as far as the vantages permitted use that uh we discussed uh the 5ot buffer between the parkings they are required by by by the township ordinance to have a 5ot buffer between the the two Lo which having the common driveway we cannot meet that so we ask for the variants the obviously the the two lots there'll be access agreements back and forth because they do have share the the lot that's a quick overview and I'll be sort of sorry Mr uh Larry I didn't give you a chance to ask me any questions but I just wanted to give a quick overview and uh I'll be glad to entertain questions that's fine John Mr chairman any questions the board members here professional staff professional you're up first sure um you didn't mention anything about snow removal could you kind of go over that sorry the snow removal on the back parking lot right that's uh the that was a a good comment you see there's not a lot of room in the lot to to stack snow removal as obviously we would think that the snow removal will uh will will try to bring all the snow to the rear uh but we we we uh we thought about that and I think we discussed uh that we would stipulate uh that the snow would have to be removed from the lck and and we just literally can't stack otherwise we would lose paring spaces right right or or kill the bushes that are on the side what I was we don't um and could you talk about the um the ballards um just could you could you uh make sure that they're you know right SP that they're not going to get hit correct we've we've located the ballers in between the parking spaces thinking that as the car pulls in uh they will not hit the baller but I think knowing the way I let's say I I drive I would probably hit those so what we'll do is a recessing slightly away from the parking there still be enough light so we're not going to suffer like pulling them away from the from the space okay um will there be any um parking assigned to the residents that are in there yes and and how will that be done well and maybe you don't know that maybe that's from the owner the property owner would but in essence uh they would assign based on uh the cars and as I indicated EV if someone has an electric vehicle they'll be assigned electric vehicle space uh and the other ones will be distributed amongst the uh the owner the renters uh of the two the so since there's limited amount of parking on there if nobody has an EV car what will happen with that EV SP that space will be used for parking so it's not restricted from being used okay so it's not there's no enforcement of the EV spot somebody can park there correct okay um is there is there anything else that can be done to help navigate cars in and out of that narrow long driveway just because there's I I I understand that the person coming out is supposed to yield to the person that's trying to get off of Morris Avenue but in practicality could you could you elaborate on that maybe excuse me just yeah just elaborate for I thought someone asked it a question yeah we've thought of that the obviously the uh uh the signage from uh from the parking someone exiting there'll be a yield sign to to yield to uh incoming traffic that obviously that's important uh the the the other thing the other concern we have is uh obviously cars pulling in at you know sort of we could limit the speed that that I think it will be valuable to to to reduce the speed we could have this 5 mile per hour sign but in essence though the the cars coming in from uh from Mar is either a right hand turn in or left turn turn in there's since the buildings are set back uh almost 10 ft there'll be enough warning as far as if the car is is trying to come out now if a car is let's say has advanced deeper into towards the driveway they would literally have to back out back up to let the car in but the signage is is important so that we we believe that the amount of traffic that created by six Paces should not cause that uh because the the cars coming into the rear or people that live there uh so this uh this space we could limit the visitors for example because that's uh if people start coming in to the to the back that could cause additional uh uh conflicts for that issue so that could be as well and we don't anticipate any uh deliveries coming to the back in fact the one of the comment was a waste how the waste we do have a spaces for the waste to be stored in the rear and uh we do not anticipate the waste truck coming into the into the rear so all the the waste will be brought out to the street as it currently I I believe speaking with the owner that's currently how it's done now the the each each and individual renter brings out their garbage or is it the property man that part I I'm not sure exactly how that would work but uh I would see that uh I'm not sure there would be a the building manager for this small amount of units but in essence yes each each renter would be garbage um I I think that's all the questions I had Mr chairman thank you um with regard to the variances that you identified you identified three variances I'm looking also at Christa's memo and I don't remember where we landed on this issue uh I know there's been revisions on this plan as a subsequent to certain comments uh Christa's memo of April 8th 2024 where she had identified a buffer requirement variance for the rear uh area adjacent to a single family zone is that something that we're asking for in this application or does theant have a position yes uh you're correct the way we've interpreted the the ordinance is that as far as we are a residential use so we are the the the more protective use and the fact that we do have the uh the the high school parking lot to the rear we believe that that variance is not applicable because of that fact at least uh our plan we can get into more details on that but okay when we initially looked at the we didn't think that that was a variance because of we are residential use it's interesting because there's a Nuance in the regulations that talks about uh when you're abing a residential zone or to any non-resident non-permitted use on a lot I know that we're talking about a use at the lower level of the building so it's something for us to discuss but I just wanted to point it out for the board that there may be a variance specifically for proposed lot five um but yet that that's something that we can talk about as we get further down the road on this thank you uh with regard to the site plan layout um I noticed that you have a a garbage area to the back of the building that's on lock five will there also be a corresponding garbage area or collection area for the existing building on lot four yes and I think we we show it on the drawing flipping back to uh our figure four it's located it's located here pry sure yeah it's under the wood back here is similar to the the the storage area on and are those areas large enough you have three units in each building um thinking about the number of cans things of that Maj we we believe that it's wide it's wide enough in length to to to be able to have a typical waist uh Bin plus uh recycle bins I think uh the the the residen is will probably uh probably try to share the recycling bins and try to limit the amount of uh bins that would be there it would be unsightly if everyone has two two bins with the recycle bin the waste bin times three six and six 12 it just seems like how many bins can you have within that area and I'm trying not to get we're showing just uh as far as the size of typical typical bin is 30 in in width you can you can have easily before you get to the entrance uh six bins there okay thank you um is there a sidewalk along the driveway that goes we yes unfortunately uh what we I think it uh some of the comments that we have received initially we had made this uh smaller a 12T Lane we were uh one of the comments that uh in getting to a division D was to make that wider uh but we do have on the on the lot five side a a 2 and 1/2 ft and on lot uh four a two foot by which is obviously it's narrow we recognize that but we we did try to provide a uh a at least an ability for people to walk uh but I think we we favored uh and we agreed with the commons that try to increase the size of the of the lane uh we a 12T Lane would work for for this type of use but uh so we've increased it uh because of the comments we had received so we which makes That Sidewalk look substandard just have 2 and 1/2 ft and 2 ft normally you would want 3T so you would have probably a 2 and 1/2 foot wide sidewalk on the lot four side lot five side is lot four to the left lot five is to the left okay lot four is to the right okay um so it would be on lot five thank you um regarding the landscape plan I know uh the town uh the city Forester had commented on the landscape design um yes we would as I stipulated we would be glad to to work with him to to make the revision that he requested adjusting species of trees things of that nature uh one of the things would offer for consideration is you do propose to shade trees very close to that driveway exit realizing there's going to be a lot of uh visual queuing that's going to be necessary there um maybe those two trees should not be that at that location from a site plan standpoint it's a good good comment we what we can do in the next revision uh show these side triangles to make sure that we don't those trees do not block if they do we'll relocate them I'm just trying to make it apparent that someone's coming out or someone's going so are we uh putting a condition in that the F that you'll uh submit a final Landscaping plan to the attend Mr Linson is that acceptable is that acceptable we can agree that Mr chairman okay uh that's all the questions I have this time I have a question two actually one is in the very front of the property I look at the picture of the sidewalk in front of the building is that going to be repaired or replaced yeah we uh good question I think we we had noted that we are redoing the uh the the entrance uh Entrance Drive sidewalk that you'd walk in front of the building you know just along more we have not indicated that the sidewalk be re uh refurbished but we'd be glad to uh to look at it uh in better in Greater detail and if it needs to we we can agree to that yeah I can tell from the Google Map just down doesn't look yes the other thing is I heard you say two and a half 2 and A2 foot wide sidewalk on one side of the driveway and then two feet on the other side wouldn't it make more sense to make a three foot or 4 foot sidewalk on just one side yes we we could do that well I'm just I just it's I'm just a lawyer I don't know what other people think we take all we take all comments I mean I mean I know we're trying to make it fit but why not have something obviously we would uh have to respect that we don't want the the not to have a curve but to protect the well I didn't say you shouldn't have a curve I'm just saying you know if there's a way to just move a little concrete to one side so that you have a a legitimate you also you also don't want people hitting the house in car I've had girls driver teror yes well would you consider um reducing the width of that building to make the side make an actual sidewalk I mean a twoot sidewalk with a car coming it's really not it's not practical right and if someone has mobility issues um or Mobility challenges that 2 feet is going to be right up against a house buffer so would you consider reducing the width of the building I would defer that to our AR okay we we as civil engineers would not object simple question what is the minimum width that drive aisle needs to be for two cars to pass by each other 12T as I said to get two cars passing by cars two cars would need at least uh 24 16 to 18 ft which is tight a normal Lane Street Lane is 12 ft which is more inadequate if you note the parking space is 9 ft wide but the cars is the cars are slightly narrower than that so let you say we use an average car 7 and 1 12 ft 15 16 ft but that that would be tight so adequate would be roughly 18 we don't have and you're proposing roughly 15 right now 13.75 okay thank you I have a question so the way the buildings are designed first of all it's multif family are they these are rentals or these um the rentals right I believe it's rental but U yes okay and yeah there's always this sensitivity about asking the question of whether they're rentals or not there's case law that says we're not allowed to get too far deep into that okay I understand why you're asking so the entrance to the the units are they in the back or it looks like the back that's where the staircase is so everyone's going to be entering through the back is there any entrance to the buildings from the front yes yes yes you'll see that from The Architects presentation the existing there's an entrance in the front and there'll be an entrance in the front for the for the new residential as well as the there'll be uh uh access to the rear as well so access to all three units from both the front and the back or was it just the the ground the building to the building so you can get if you're on the third floor you can go in from the front yeah and from the back so you're not so if you park in the back technically you can go to your go to your unit and leave through the front if you're going to walk I don't think Mr fany knows yeah you know he design the building our Architect by that shortly and he'll be up next and and he heard the question because I hear him answering kind of back there okay we'll get to that okay we promise and okay and then I have question about the garbage but yeah the uh the city does allow a single family house to have four cans a week so I don't know what the apartment limit is but but the city doesn't allow you to bring this garbage out to the streen right no they in the back and what I'm saying is if they have four cans each apartment because it's a once a week pickup it's not a twice a week pickup so they're two cans twice a week it's four cans um it's a lot of cans but and they're not going to fit there we know that my comment about the the entrance has to do with the sidewalk so if it is the if if the entrance is if everyone's going to if anybody leaving the unit has to go through that the driveway SL walkway that's that's why I'm I'm concerned about how you enter and exit through the buildings right each building has its own entrance on the front we'll hear that from the architect this end questions yes excuse me I have one done or a couple if I can get it out um is there enough obviously what happens with the excess water that comes out of these drainage tanks you say it's going to drain to the sewer system in the street there's enough pitch all that kind of fed by gravity no pumps anything like that correct okay and then if I'm looking at the plan right um the building is three 3.25 ft from the property line is that correct for the side yard on the which would be the right hand side or the east side of the building the the new building is 3 25 on the on the build on La four to the east the existing building is 5 ft to the uh yes to the uh side yard and by any chance do you know how far the other building to the right of the proposed building is from the property line yeah uh we don't have a we don't have a dimension to the building to the east but just comparing uh looking at the scale it's comparable so they're about that far away from each other cuz I'm 6' tall well uh if you aggregate the let's say three and 1 half three and a quarter on the on our lot four and to the neighbor you'll have about seven feet between the well three and a quarter and three and a quarter six and a half almost seven if you're paying me I'll take the seven if I'm paying myself I'll take the six and a half we can uh add those Dimensions so we're not guessing and then um just ping out the driveway I apologize the survey shows that it's 3.88 okay to this point and 3.95 to the back for the new building for the our neighbor okay so it is around 7 ft so it's a foot longer than that my hands are short so um cars coming out of the driveway onto Mars you visited the site I would assume correct um during the day the deal the car dealership real estate office lawyers office they all Park on Mars Avenue so we talked about you mentioned maybe limiting visitors maybe where do you propose they Park so is it is the city or the county now providing parking spaces for individual who's building right a building as as I indicated I'm now referring to figure two there's an existing single curve cut for the parking lot on lot let's call a lot four it's really BL east side of the existing building so that that's really not changing so if you compare figure two to figure three we've located the the the driveways already in I'm not talking about the driveway I'm talking about where people are going to park if they have if there's you put in three units in one and you already have three in the other right now it's a whole parking lot so three unit has has three units in it currently plenty of parking so you're actually reducing parking for the occupants because now the visitors if the if the parking lot's full they're gonna have to find someplace else to park which then puts a burden on their neighborhood John maybe go back to your testimony that the parking has the code is conforming to the code standards corre within the code standards whether it's portion of RSI is adopted or just the city code that factors in not just the tency but factors in BU as well maybe that right and I was mentioning that we we do note as it also indicated that parking is allowed on the street but as far as our this application we do meet dep paring require correct for for the for the occupancies correct the the code factors in the totality of what it anticipates for that unit that's baked into rsis that's baked into every local Cod Mr snikers can can explain that further on we have our planner will as well but there is no secondary overlay for where to the visitor's partk that's part of the metric that's already in the code that this application meets corre okay and then in your professional opinion do you feel that 10 ft is adequate space for someone coming out of this driveway to react to traffic on Mars Avenue with vehicles parked in that area yeah if we limit the the the speed I'm now I'm referring back to figure three the a car exiting here as far as uh if if I superimpose a a typical sight triangle mhm the the is view onto mors Avenue it's quite broad obviously uh we will add I think the board engineer correctly said what other what other measure can we do there'll be uh a stop sign obviously we're proposing a stop sign we uh a Stop Bar uh so we we we want exiting traffic to you know to be careful and be able to see the the traffic on moris okay thank you any other questions from the I just have one I just want to confirm that there is no plan to have a fence that be your point about the property being seven the building actually being 7t from the neighboring building in the neighbor's property there's no plan to have a fence there in between those right there we are is again referring to figure three uh we we have the fence starting at the end of the building which is also past the end of the our neighbors buildings and we have a gate to to to to to limit access to the rear uh but there'll be no fencing we're proposing along the the building uh uh envelope if you will both along the the residence to the East and to the residence to the to the West I think I mean I don't know if there has to be a stipulation that there isn't but I'm just thinking about fire access if there is a fire in either one of those buildings and in anybody decides that they're going to put a fence up in between those buildings I don't know how that you know putting up a 4-ot fence is allowed in Summit without like much permit issue um you if you if anybody puts a a defense up there then I don't know how the fire department would access either building on that side if there was an issue so I don't know if that's something that needs to be I wrote it down we can we canose it that's not they're not proposing fencing they're not going to care if we set we impose condition says no fencing along the building or in the front yard that's right right okay okay and I don't know if this is your perview or not or The Architects any consideration for fire protection inside the building such as a sprinkler system well that may be the engineer I mean that would be u under the international building code whether it's required or not I know it's whether it's required the question is has there ever been any consideration to maybe do that since they're so close to each other limited access should wait for okay very good good question any other questions from the board I have one other question um if all the the parking spots are taken up including the two um UV spaces and so say a car came in to go look for parking and they didn't realize that whatever somebody parked some one somebody's um visitor parked in the spot is there enough room for them to turn around like cuz basically you can't all the parking spots are full besides back it without backing out that rway yeah it's a it's a great question uh the assuming that all the spaces are occupied and someone enters the the property there's there's L we have a a normal space between uh 90° parking would be 24 we are we are we're fortunate we we have 29 but that 29 feet it would it would be difficult for a car to try to uh uh to make a turn turn around and exit his site so uh again that's probably it's a what we can U do as uh to alleviate that concern uh we could put uh not only signage but a lighted uh indicating that the parking lot is full so some kind of electronic uh signage to say that the lots are full I think you should think about you're going to come back anyway guys get that's thought that's a good comment it's a great comment thank the okay any any other questions from the board Mr any questions from yes sir just one last question it sort of reminded me as the board was asking questions um it may seem obvious but are you consenting to cross access agreements things of that I wrote that down right cross ACC to be reviewed and approved by the board attorney and must be recorded prior to the issuance of a building permit yes thank you I think you're right you can't let that escape and one more from you yes I well can I have two you can have two I have two followup um could you could you just go back to um talking about the Overflow from the dry Wells I just wanted to make sure that that was adequately represented yeah those two overflows in the back where where do they drain to well uh currently the going back to figure two which is the existing grade as you can see the site currently slopes Al all everything that all the rain that falls to the site goes towards the back to the to the to the north uh what we've done to alleviate that is that I'm turning now to our detail of the design of the dryw we as you can see as far as what the what's required for as far as the the amount of rain that's falling on the site for us to handle it would be 400 cubic feet of the dryw volume that we it's required we overdesigned it by factor or two to 9912 so the our idea was to oversize the dry Wells to to so that the uh bit so that the amount of water that would have to overflow from the dry Wells to the neighbor would be limited to where obviously a rainstorm that's not not not an average rainstorm further what we what we will do we uh we will infiltrate so we are not taking we're not counting on the amount of water that we'll infiltrate that adds additional capacity to the dry wells and in New Jersey as we all know to dry Wells require soil testing you have to confirm that the the groundwater table is 2 feet lower than the dryw so we have to do all that uh testing and uh and we will do that provide all that information okay to you okay um and then one other thing is I was looking and I'm gonna have to figure out which plan it was on hold on one second um I was looking at the yield sign and it seemed to be contradictory to what you had talked about let me see is on on figure three okay figure three it looks like there's a yield sign that's facing the cars that are entering the lot isn't it isn't it something that we're saying that people that are exiting the lot are supposed to yield to somebody coming in correct that so I think that sign might be facing the wrong direction is that right yes okay and that's that's all thank you okay questions from the public for this Witness I don't see any um so you want to move on well you're you're getting close to being out of town how much we have left I don't want to less than five minutes I put 45 minutes into the into a thing on my watch and it's at 40 seconds and if we had to get some questions I think we could do it but I don't think you can start another way you just I I don't I don't like the the a few minutes of he's going to come back anyway arit so at this point Mr we thank you for your time tonight um we looking for the next dat did I hear 129 129 129 or March what was it it's a date in March it's not the December 9th it's the uh we can make December 9th any you wave the time which the board has to act we do all of that Wonder good so we need a motion we need a motion from a board member to carry this to December 9th without notice correct yes without notice and with all these other wonderful good and a second second thank you chairman Steiner yes Vice chairman lit yes Mr Yuko yes Mr Nelson yes Miss Z yes Mr Malay yes Miss chfo yes motion carried right 70 730 thank you folks have a nice Thanksgiving everybody a few weeks yep we move on to um beon H and we do have a few people who are leaving us I'm sorry again welcome and are you leaving us again he just got here and now he's leaving uh we have a number of people who are so you know he didn't like the spot uh we're back to zambon okay y hopefully we'll get to it uh we'll get there all right uh you wanted to give us a quick uh update of where we are and what we need to accomplish tonight yes so I'm I'm actually going to give a little bit of a recap just because there's been some time in between the first hearing um Hillary from Dempsey Dempsey and Shen representing the applicant Beacon Hill Club 250 Hobart Avenue block 2203 Lot 1 in the r43 zone pacan Hill Club is a permitted conditional use that has been located at the site since 1955 the applicant proposes to construct additions to the existing Carriage House to provide easier accessibility to areas of the club that are currently difficult to navigate to and around due to to due to the Topography of the lower campus provid provide for indoor storage of existing Outdoor Equipment as well as dedicated maintenance area and garage and upgraded and modernized space for existing members and employees minor expansion of Pat's house um which is an existing non-conforming accessory structure and reconfiguration of the upper and lower parking areas which will add off street parking and improve traffic circulation the variances requested are for lot coverage of 65% disturbance of steep slopes of 2.12% and height of an additional 8 and 1/2 ft an expanded Second Story and 55 Square ft um of additional space for Pat's house and nine off street parking spaces where 18 are required um so at the first hearing the applicant testified um as stated above that Beacon Hill Club is a permitted and approved conditional use and has been a part of the neighborhood and Summit since 1955 the applicant confirmed the outdated and deteriorating condition of the existing Carriage House and Pat's house and the critical need for significant repair and modernization in the many areas where improv functionality are necessary the lack of accessibility for those with mobility issues in young children as well as the need for storage maintenance and employee space the applicant offered conditions of approval that were the result of ongoing neighborhood meetings and discussions designed to address and mitigate any areas of concern the civil engineer testified with regard to the unique characteristics of the site including the topography and existing structures Mr Scott detailed the areas that contribute to the additional 65% of lot coverage proposed and describe the storm water management that is designed to sufficiently capture runoff related to The increased coverage Mr Scott stated that 2.12% of regul percent of regulated steep SL will be disturbed and explain the disturbance was designed to meet the purposes of the ordinance and not cause erosion or other unstable condition protective measures will be in place that there will be no negative impact or effect on community health safety or welfare as a result erosion siltation and runoff will be contained and storm water management is proposed as previously described Mr Scott also confirmed that the existing non-conforming lighting will be replaced with compliant sight lighting that will not have any off-site spillage and be regulated by automatic timers and that the new mechanical equipment proposed will be quieter more energy efficient and environment environmentally friendly the traffic engineering expert described the on-site circulation and off street parking concluding that a variance for nine off street parking spaces was required under the ordinance Mr Parago went on to state that the new spaces proposed as a result of this application um sorry Mr want to state that the new spaces proposed as a result of this application would not generate additional demand or trip generation due to the nature of the proposed use and that the improvements are for existing membership and employees storage and access his conclusion was that the proposal will improve every single condition relating to off street parking site circulation and accessibility without question under all applicable standards the architect took the board through the floor plan and new elevations for both the carriage house and Pat's house went into greater detail of the compliant building lighting describe the Ada accessible improvements and confirm the representations by the applicant as to the outdated unsafe and deteriorating nature of the buildings Mr Cooney called out the minor variances of per Pat's house including the expansion to the Second Story the additional height of 8 and 1/2 ft and the additional 55 Square ft to be added in between the window bump outs to allow for better viewing experience Mr Cooney's expert opinion with regard to both areas of improvement was that they would result in an aesthetic improvement over existing conditions and that the additional height stories and area for Pat's house will not be easily perceived due to its location topography and proposed screening Mr Cooney is here again tonight to testify with regard to the fire chief's administrative review and subsequent determination that was filed with the board that a sprinkler system for Pat's house is not required and that out of an abundance of caution a second egress door is being added to the second floor of Pat's house which will be described in more detail by Mr Cooney the acoustical engineering report will be introduced into the record which confirms that the sound levels and that the which confirm the sound levels and that those levels as measured at the property are currently in compliance with the state and local noise ordinance regulations for the hours of 7 a.m. to 10: p.m. with the club's commitment to continued compliance the landscape architect will testify with regard to the landscape plan which includes approximately 120 new trees and shrubs resulting in significant screening and shielding and overall beautification of the lower campus and brandwood drive streetcape and finally if we get to it we will conclude with the planner Paul Phillips who will discuss the justifications for the relief requested as required by the municipal lanus law questions for the attorney proceed with your first witness okay uh Brian Cooney still under you I'm sorry you just have to switch it on got switch it on okay no it's I believe it's on the microphone yes got you hear me now there we go much better all right you're still under oath I suppose right yes he was SW yes in last time yes all right um at the last hearing there was discussion regarding items in the fire chief's administrative review since that hearing have you had the opportunity to speak with the fire department and clarify what is requested or required uh yes I spoke with the summit fire department it was uh Lieutenant lemons who uh was reviewing the uh Pat's house application and we discussed their technical letter and that we were going to compl apply with numbers 1 through three of their technical technical letter um but fire suppression of Pat's house um was under under question last time and uh for my last testimony um within the IBC uh we don't meet any of the thresholds to have a sprinkler system we're uh exempt with our use um but we want to discuss with the fire department based on the board's recommendation um they agreed with us that um if we follow the code that it was not Acquired and in their opinion it was just it was a request on their part just to make the building a safer structure um and upon further review and speaking to him um we uh came to the conclusion that a second means of erress to the new second floor would uh create a a safer building so we've created a a new plan which is on the screen now so those will be marked um A4 and A5 and in this plan uh you can see just recapping the plan uh from my first testimony that currently we have uh a one-story structure so this is on the rink level and we are straightening out the facade uh the new addition above to add uh square foot to the second floor would be an entrance to this roof deck an entrance here and viewing space and our second means of egress we are proposing putting it on the backs side um and there's a there's actually a path along the back side of the building here that you can uh eress out of and it's about eight steps down to grade and the stair we'd propose would be uh a metal uh access stair so it' be open grate so it' be essentially transparent to to precipitation be it wouldn't add to the perious coverage of the of the building we also looked up uh other variances uh that it could potentially uh impact such as the building Dimension and uh uh coverage but uh for the per the zoning ordinance definitions uh we don't uh we don't actually impact those uh those variances we're seeking as well so the the back stair really is just a a safety bonus to the building and we feel that it would uh greatly increase the life safety and um that's about it for my testimony that's all I've got anything from our professionals on this no I have nothing board members I have a couple um is the second floor of of Pat's house Ada accessible uh it's not but there's an equal viewing opportunity on the first floor which is Ada accessible and as if there's an equal opportunity on the first floor why build a second floor so well the idea is that more people can view from the building okay but not if you're ADA handicapped well there's an ADA accessible viewing platform from the the first floor okay that you can get to through a ramp on the sides gotcha so just off the top of my head how much are you guys investing in Pat's house uh I don't I'm not sure that answer that's not I'm just I'm just trying to I know I'm I'm a I know what you're thinking but we generally shouldn't ask that okay I'm sorry I apologize for asking that question let me let me rephrase it you're making a pretty big investment in this property and I'm a big proponent of sprinklers you have a fireplace I know it's not required by building code and and I'm not questioning a fire department's expertise at all I want to make that very clear but you are making a significant investment in the property overall one sprinkler had each floor boom done somebody forgets to put the fireplace out or an Amber sits there building burns down down middle of the night is there an alarm system going to be in the building yes okay so you have some for warning for that but you have an on duty you have an on duty Farm in 24 hours a day I know it's an investment in capital to do that I get it but it reduces your insurance rates I'm sure helps you out makes confidence peace of mind you don't have to worry about it just my two cents but it's definitely your decision I have a question about what is the occupancy of Max occupancy of Pat's house oh the max occupancy um I don't have those numbers in front of me but um I believe it is um I think it's 15 foot per person I would have to get back to you on that any other questions question can and if we've covered this I apologize but the um architecturally why why did you go with a roof the way it's designed versus potentially seeking relief for a lower pitch roof to get away from the 8ot height the the the Peak the peak here is triggering the 8ot variance compliance um we felt that this was the the best look for the the house itself and I remember from my last testimony there was um some discrepancies on the height it was 8 foot you're right but um our feeling that if we went with a lower pitch that uh it just it aesthetically wouldn't look right for Pat's house um if you were to remove the roof and do a flat roof what would the variants be required um possibly none probably no but do you see a benefit in having a roof like this because it matches the other architecture on site correct so it would yes it would and I do there is also a benefit with um rain and snow removal with this kind of roof as well so there's an aesthetic benefit and again consistency the architecture throughout the site okay and what is the square footage for the second floor we've talked about 55t addition but what's on the second floor versus the bump outs on the first floor so the second floor is I don't have the number in front of me um but it is the building is right now it's 30 30 ft Deep by about 50 ft I think I believe I have to get the exact numbers back to you well perhaps while we're talking to other Witnesses yeah I can refer my notes and I can give you the exact numbers any other questions for this witness I have a question that this the extra staircase that you just put in the second floor like the exra extra exit that what was there so basically that was the the building ended there yeah I can I can bring up our previous plan so previously we had a rear structure for our air conditioning which we actually don't need anymore because we changed our system type it's going to be a um a onall unit um because we don't need that we can put the stair there and it was just a a blank wall I can show you the elevation it jumped this is that same elevation without the stairs and back behind you it's just a wooded Hill that you'd be seeing so it's just going to be it's a flattened area and then a wooden hill behind you so the staircase will have like the supports will be in so can you go to the elevation of the stairs correct yeah right here so it provides an additional means of eass and you think it adds to the look of the building um the roof added that's what he was asking about no I was asking about the stairs what adds the life safety back to the building that's theas life safety yes so the at the base of the stairs when you get to the bottom of the stairs is that a new walkway or that was an existing I mean how are you getting you can let me go back to the plane we would have um a walkway the pl down there we go there there' be a walkway that would essentially go wrong along the back side here so that's being added the walkway it's currently dirt but we would add we would add probably impervious papers back there that would lead you to the side any other questions I have one more that when we talked about the roof is that what type of material is the roof made out of uh the roof um currently it's being shown as a metal type roof but we're going to have a matching shingle roof that will match the the main building yeah cuz I was worried about this where if it was a metal roof where would the snow fall right exactly that was the issue that's why we moved the shingle roof and I actually got the U the square footage of second floor um second floor is 885 Square F feet addition thank you yep but the that doesn't include the roof no that's that's built square footage the roof deck uh is about 360 okay uh questions from the public is there anyone here from the public that would like to ask a question of this witness on any of his testimony both the last time or this time I don't think you were subject to questioning the last time I no he was I let's take the finish the public first then we'll come back to the board members nobody no one please did you say you had another had another question no I was just I was interested in the occupancy but if it's 15 square feet per person then it's about 150 people counting the roof does that sound about right it sounds about right yeah I'd have to go through the exact numbers but it sounds about right okay anything else for this witness okay and okay uh next witness is Bill Scott do you is Bill test already tonight previously or previously in the hearings yes all right Mr Scott you're all good to go so Mr Scott you've been previously qualified by this board in connection with this application as an expert in the field of civil engineering yes that's right and were you present at the last hearing during the board discussions regarding the Zamboni sound levels yes and based on your participation at that hearing as a civil engineer what steps did you take to follow up with regard to an EV valuation of compliance with state and local noise regulations as they relate to the zambon use of the subject property um well following um the last meeting we had discussions with the Beacon Hill Club and it was decided that they would retain a uh acoustical engineering expert to do some studies at the site um there were uh concerns brought up by The Neighbors in the BR brandwood area uh so we wanted to ascertain some sand levels at that point um sound levels were studied at the site for the Zamboni the diesel power Zamboni and sound levels were measured um offsite at the men and Arena on a electric Zamboni um and did those measurements form the basis of a report that was prepared uh dated November 15th by Benjamin Mueller of uster guard acoustical Associates yes they did and that report was filed with the board yes and have you reviewed that aort report and the applicable state and local noise regulations and conferred with the acoustical engineering consultant I have yes okay and so based on your understanding of the noise regulations and your review of the report uh dated November 15 2024 can it be said that Zamboni used by Beacon Hill Club complies with daytime 7:00 a.m. to 10: p.m. sound levels of 65 DBA and that if an electric zambon were to be used for operation during nighttime hours which is 10: p.m. to 7:00 a.m. that the electric zambon would comply with the sound level of 50 DDA as required by the regulations yes those were the conclusions of the report and can you go through the conclusions sure so essentially um there's two different sound levels one for daytime uh one for nighttime daytime is considered 7:00 a.m. to 10: p.m. uh that restriction is 65 DBA uh nighttime which is considered 10 p.m. to 7 a.m. uh has a lower threshold of 50 DBA um the report um shows that the existing diesel Zamboni as measured by ostergard complies with the daytime limits uh it's my understanding that the club intends to purchase a electric Zamboni uh and again the electric Zamboni was measured for comparison purposes at the men and sports arena uh and the report shows that the electric Zamboni sound levels would comply with the nighttime um threshold for sound levels at the site okay and the state has established the limits of 65 DBA during the daytime hours and 50 DBA during the nighttime hours specifically to assure that sound emanating from a source does not dis rupt surrounding neighbors based on your review of the report can you comment on that well again the report clearly shows that the um daytime level um the expected sound from the diesel Zamboni is lower than the daytime threshold and the expected sound levels from the electric zambon is lower than the threshold of the uh nighttime the for nighttime perfect I don't have any other questions questions I have I have two one of them might sound really silly the Zamboni there's the sound of the diesel engine but then also isn't there the beeping noises when the zimon is going like in rever I mean is that that's all measured what what was studied was the um travel of the Zamboni from the storage shed to the rink uh with the engine at maximum rpm um I'm not aware if if they did a backup or beeping so that that's what was studied so the Zamboni does not um have a backup beeper so it doesn't beep at all no okay um and so if you're going to purchase an electron electric Zamboni for nighttime because it's quieter what is the disadvantage and why not use that I mean obviously you have one already but is there any um reason why you wouldn't use that during the day also yes so um if if you want the applicant can answer that question okay um that's it I have he can he can answer the question go ahead come on back up you've been sworn before so go right ahead Pascal lant l a l o nde we've done extensive due diligence on comparing a diesel powered machine gas powered versus an electric zambon we spoke with the manufacturer Zamboni and they discour encouraged us from using an electric Zamboni as the only Zamboni and currently we only have cap capacity for one in the projected plan there's space and storage as Miss s mentioned to have a second Zamboni and that's why we're we want to purchase an electric one the limits are due to just the constraints on a battery powered machine and foul weather um battery life temperature sensitivity it wouldn't be able to operate below a certain temperature threshold they're designed to be indoor machines and we're an outdoor facility so they'd be used you know together obviously and then to reduce the but I have a crazy question not that should surprise anybody yeah so uh we're arguing over the 10 o00 hard cut is there how late night is the hockey rink going to go even if you're using the electric s so we um had submitted proposed conditions of approval at the beginning of this um which outlines all of the time so it's I believe the cut off is 11:00 p.m. okay right got it just for clarity because that was going to be my question the use of an electric zambon is not to wave what you've already proposed correct you're staying with that cudle we're staying with the 11 yes it would not extend it thank you good right there's a whole two sheets of agreed to conditions that is correct and that's in there yes for those that may not have seen it before it includes equipment storage the emergency gate number of things correct um okay other questions from the board professionals no okay questions from the public for this witness I see none all right then we would like to call the landscape architect Benjamin heler is this your last Witness no um we have a planner after this okay you got 20 minutes okay we could probably go through Landing got a little more than that based on the way I'm helping you no relax I want to get them done okay I don't want to have too much over done so he is not yet testified all right so we'll get right to it um sure kindly raise your right hand do you SAR affirm testimony about the given this matter is the truth the whole truth in eth yes I do uh provide us your name full name last name SP your last name uh Benjamin heler uh h l l r and and you have appeared before board recently Prov us with three boards that you have seen Washington Township T New Jersey Franklin Township and I was here in February all right do we accept this cred yes we do excellent far away and this is uh this is new yes so this is this is going to be a A6 okay thank you okay um can you explain the steps that you've taken to prepare yourself to give expert testimony in this matter certainly I have taken multiple site visits to the site uh most recently this past weekend uh reviewed the application reviewed the land use ordinance and site plan conditions Etc prepared the plans that are before you today as well as the revised plan that's before you uh reviewed the administra administrative reviews and obviously reviewed any applicable ordinances perfect and you said you prepared plans in connection with this application did yes indeed uh the plan that's before you today is the landscape plan that was revision da 94 um we have revised uh plants that were 14 green um sorry Norway sprues and we've substituted them for 30 green Giants which I will point out to you in a moment perfect um can you describe the revised Landscaping plan data 9424 um which is marked as as a six for the board and the members of the interested public absolutely I'm going to good can you hear me can you hear me yeah all right good I'm G to walk over there all right so before you today you have the landscape plan um I have at the top of the screen uh Brantwood uh the existing structure as well as the proposed editions and Pat house is is right here as I'm pointing to it um this landscape plan is designed to have three levels of screening from brandwood um I will explain those screenings but in addition to that we have plenty of plants throughout um the first level of screening as I mentioned prior was the 30 green Giants um which I'm pointed to right here originally we had 14 Nori sprues we now have 30 green Giants that have been planted uh they were planted about a month and a month and a half ago um in addition to that we have an additional 31 green Giants that continue to line brandwood on the um interior of what is an existing just about 3ot wall uh masonry wall that exists today that separates Brantwood from uh the Beacon Hill Club in addition to that let's call it Green Giant screening we have what I have what I'm I'm going to call streetscape screening which is shade trees um that are at the top of the page there are seven they were originally U red Maples uh at the request of John Linson I have now changed those to swamp White Oaks which are a native species and that as a whole will act as a kind of beautification of the street in addition to um some screening as they mature shade trees in general have a really nice canopy so they have a tendency of providing some not just uh shade but also really nice screening measures that can take place and the last level of screening is the Norway spruces which you can see here they're kind of a dark uh Circle and those are proposed to be um uh on a threefoot BM and my thought process behind them is God forbid there's actually any views into this place those will capture any views in so three levels of screening by the time they're planted by the time they're they' mature uh you will truly not be able to actually see into this um we have some exhibits that I'm going to show uh after this which are uh renderings and in addition I actually have uh a photo that I took this past weekend um put this back all right Everyone likes to talk plants so I also like to talk about numbers um we are removing one tree that is an 18inch Pine um that's in red kind of tough the seed it's near Pat's house um that is the only tree that requires replacement um we are planting 61 green Giants 15 nor sprues which is a total of 76 Evergreens we are planting seven um yeah thank you we are planting seven uh Oaks in addition to thank you uh we are actually planting 14 Oaks and 12 um River Birches which is a total of 26 shade trees and then if that's not enough we also have seven flowering trees that are going throughout the parking lot um and throughout the site as well so a lot of trees that are being planted um a lot of what I'm going to call Visual impact that's taking place here um beautification of the street um and and a very dense Evergreen screening the trees that I mentioned just so you understand the green Giants have a tendency of growing from anywhere from 2 to 3et they can even grow more per year uh the Norway spruces will grow just about 2 feet a year and the shade trees that are being proposed along Brantwood will grow 3ish feet a year just about give or take um in addition to that we are proposing a drip irrigation system on these trees we have already uh installed like I mentioned the first 30 they are currently on a drip system although now it's winter eyes it's a temporary drip system a permanent one will be installed uh at the onset of construction or at the I should say end of construction um the stone wall I mentioned is along brandwood uh there are there are some areas that are in need of repair we do plan on repairing them um and then the last sort of one of the last things I would like to mention um is uh the noise reduction that that naturally comes with evergreen trees uh there is a uh us-based nonprofit called the noise project they are funded by the National Science Foundation which is run out of and it's run by Cornell University they are sort of the standard for when it comes to trees as noise pollution uh and their assistance um they make reference to multiple studies I've been through all the studies uh there is a very clear indication that trees have a tendency of uh reducing noise pollution and in addition the best tree to plant our Evergreens as I mentioned we're planting 76 of them perfect um and as a result of neighborhood meetings has there been discussion with the club to add additional screening by the paddle courts yes there will be four additional uh trees that are planted sort of to the right of my uh plan I can get up there are they on the plan or do I have to add that as a condition they'll be they'll be added as a condition as a condition yes is that it um no I have a couple more questions uh did you and the architect work together to prepare an exhibit that shows the existing streetcape views from locations on brandwood road as well as renderings of what those streetscape views would look like upon completion of planting of the landscape plan and 5 years after growth we most certainly did and I am going to take you through those right now um what I have up on the screen so um what is it L1 through nine so those would yes I have actual hard copies of them as well separate exhibit yeah what want to mark them yeah yeah okay that's fine are you going to send her this in electronic El there's hard copies here as well for um okay so A7 would be the first A7 is L1 ask so on L1 you can see a picture that was taken this past weekend uh on Saturday uh this is the 30 original Green Giants that we planted um as I made reference to on the plan they are 10 feet tall uh they tip out at 10t um they will grow very very quickly uh green Giants have a tendency of growing very very rapidly as I mentioned they can get about three to three feet um a year especially with the irrigation system this is uh the same you know stepped back view essentially from where we just were again you can see all of the green Giants that were planted and you can see their visual impact that they will provide and as I mentioned with a rapid growing tree like this in no time at all you you will have essentially an Ever Green Screen oops sorry on L3 so what I've done um these trees are actually rendered um and the intent of this is to show what it would look like in about 5 years so as you saw in the previous they are a little bit more uh pyramidal in form let's just go back they're a little bit more pyramidal in form when they're started and as they grow in they have a tendency of growing into one another which is exactly what you want them to do to create a green screen this shows in about five years the uh additional height that will be added um the lack of use sort of into uh the property and and it would be the same on the other side you can also see in the distance the shade trees that we're adding um these are actually a little bit let's call them young right but after five years they'll probably get a little bit more than that than what I'm showing them at right now but I wanted to be a little bit more conservative in my renderings uh and you can also see the wall in the distance that's existing wall today that separates the property from the street oops um L4 shows the existing conditions uh as you're looking towards the rink and as I mentioned we're looking to repair that wall so what you're seeing here is a rendering of of just that so this is the next layer of the of the green Giants I had mentioned that have not been planted yet but will be planted this is showing them at about six to 7 feet tall today the reason that it looks like they're so much taller is because on the actual back side of the wall there's actually some retaining that's happening so you actually have about 3T or so give or take uh of grade change and so you have an added benefit of that height so the trees look and would appear from the street side that they're actually much taller than they actually are today uh in addition you can see sort of the red circles on the ground those are just to indicate where the shade trees would be so you know what's not being shown here is actually that you're getting again another layer of screening from a shade tree and beautification for the street side and this is again what they would look like after 5 years so I'm going to oops going to go back and then you can start to see them grow in and what you're going to end up essenti with is a green screen now in this picture you can see two of the layers I was talking about and that's because that third layer which is a burm 3ot tall BM with Norway sprues you can't actually see it right it's back there and the intent of it is for twofold if for whatever reason you would be able to see it it's back there and number two it's going to help with that noise reduction and also going to help from a visual aesthetic um this is the brandwood street view um uh you can see the the little line I put in to indicate the 10 foot height that was again those these trees have been planted and that would be sort of the indication of what they would be like over time so in 5 years down the road they will have grown pretty sub substantially and pretty significantly you can also see sort of to the right of this image the the line that indicates 13 ft those are the ones that have been planted that were six to 7 feet so we're getting a big mix of of heights that are going on but more importantly you're going to get a very nice Evergreen screen to faces the street in addition to shade trees that will make allow it to act from a from a a much more residential perspective perfect um and you stated Beacon Hill already planted the 30 green uh giant Arbor VY has there been discussion about the possibility of planting certain additional portions of the proposed landscape plan prior to construction absolutely as weather allows we would would love to do that and then consultation obviously with the construction manager yep consultation with the construction manager and John Linson as well um and then I think John linson's report the only thing he had requested was the substitution um of swamp White Oaks for the pin oaks which we've already shown yep I don't have any other questions um so I I'm looking at the uh let's see it's the Norway spruce that you have on a a three-foot firm but I don't see that actually reflected on the grading plan that was done um can you comment on what that might do to redirect water on the property I could certainly we could certainly bring the engineer back up to testify to that if he'd like to but but the reality is is that from a if you're asking from a plant perspective on what it would affect the how it would affect the plants as a whole um it should absolutely not affect the plants we're actually going to be adding that soil in from a uh perspective of trying to get the actual um root ball to to grow in right so for the from a plants perspective when you add some fresh top soil in it has a much better effect on the actual plant itself but from a grading perspective we can certainly bring the engineer up he can testify that if he needs P okay yeah I I mean I it just it's not reflected on the grading plan so I don't know if there's any change in where the so we can always um as a condition make sure that we revise the plan to show that okay thank you um and then just one more thing um that was in John linson's report um does Beacon Hill Club agree as a condition of approval that all material will be Field located um by you being present during the selection and installation of the plant material yes and I was present for the first 30 I will be present for the next what did we say 700 or so what's that condition all material um it's um that all material will be Field located um with Mr heler present during the selection and installation of the plant material and the engineering condition was what was the drainage that the plan would be Revis the grading plan to show the BM is there any chance that grading area is going to be impacting the steel appearances no questions from the board um just uh one I have one which um would you say that an added benefit of all this Landscaping besides the noise is um some storm water management benefit sure absolutely yeah I mean plants have a tendency of of soaking up uh of water right so the trees themselves have a much greater chance of soaking up any additional water that may or may not be uh you know present in the area especially the the Norway spruces have a tendency of liking the water the green Giants love the water yeah River Birch River Birch is is one of the greatest for water yeah you'll notice I put those River Birches close to the rank on purpose um Miss Chief yes the um I was just getting confused on where sure when you looked talking about where he planted the uh green Giants um have you looked at the latest City Foresters comments um that is concerned about the impact of the driveway wall on the north side of the property on the neighbor streets I don't I don't think that that's our oh VI I'm sorry wrong one sorry about that joh on me just want to see if you're paying attention right did not see that one okay sorry about that any any other uh yeah questions I got a couple um so when did you plant the 30 trees I am going to say based on my notes 924 but I can double check are are they in the city right of way no okay so who's responsible for maintenance we are why would you plant 30 on the one side of the wall and the rest of the plantings on your I'll say your side of the wall as opposed to the city side so I can most certainly point it out but the site conditions would not allow for those initial 30 the proposed say conditions would not allow H go ahead I I can figure it out iig so that's kind of leading me to the next question um why wouldn't you plant those trees on your side of the wall to have a kind of a uniform landscape on one side so it doesn't impinge upon the neighbors you know I might get I might be getting picky here but it kind of looks and then you know I know why you did it because it's going to interfere with your proposed parking and all that so yeah no it's a good question so in one of the neighborhood meetings it actually came up uh the neighbors actually preferred oh then I will be quiet those 30 for them to be there so we put them there I'm yeah thank you and and they actually preferred the Green Giant over what was originally proposed so that's why we switched out we switched it out from the Norway I just I find it kind of funny that there's 30 trees on one side of the wall then you go up and everything's on the other side that's all I'm done we're good questions from the public yeah I see a hand come come on up please and your name and your address please spell your last name Andrea du last name spelled l IU 35 wood so Mr H you mentioned the repair of the B wall what about the wall to the left of the entrance gate on brood when is that going to be repaired yeah could you maybe point to the could you maybe point to the plan if I zoomed in could you go there and yes I do but if you don't mind clarification may want to help help her Orient herself please right here okay so right here this the wall right here is completely falling out you guys all know this yeah we'll we'll fix when we fix the wall we'll fix so the the wall as a whole will be repaired on both sides both sides yes okay thank you that's no other questions from the public what else you got uh just the planner let's yep you've got uh 15 minutes all right thank you uh guys we will be taking a five minute break at one point and I mean five raise your right hand do you swear affirm a testimony you're about to give this matter is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do Mr chair Mr Phillips has appeared before this board many times in the past accept his pred we do welcome back thank you Mr chairman go ahead okay so uh I'll sort of cut to the chase I mean you've heard the uh proposal uh from a number of Witnesses in terms of the uh modernization and upgrades and improvements to the existing uh club uh they do trigger a number of variances none of which I would characterize as being significant or substantial in nature uh nonetheless we have to advance planning proofs in support of the relief consistent with the requirements of both the municipal land use statute and relevant uh case law so as you've heard this property is located in the r43 district it's principally a residential district uh however private recreational facilities are permitted as a conditional use uh applicant meets all but one of the conditionally use standards for the use as you you've heard and that is for lot uh coverage and that triggers a D3 variance which is why we're before the uh zoning board uh the applicant is also seeking C bulk variance relief uh for the number of parking stalls for steep slope disturbance and for the size and height of the uh accessory structure uh which we've commonly referred to as uh Pat's house uh in terms of the planning proofs I'll start with the D3 variants for coverage uh interestingly the the maximum lot coverage for private recreational facilities as a conditional use standard in your ordinance is 15% as you've heard the applicant's proposal is for 46.3 7% but clearly uh I think we all have to recognize that the existing coverage at the facility is 45. 72% so the actual proposed increase is relatively uh di Minimus I think it's on computer it's not mine not me um 10 10 bucks at Rotary but that's a conditional use I'm sorry the lock coverage was always um over yeah what I was going to say is that the The Zone standards postate the original construction of the uh club and they also apply to other lands in the city of summit this isn't the only uh land that's within the limits of the r43 uh District so regardless uh we still need a C3 variance uh the standard of proof as the board is aware uh basically uh emanates from the seminal case which is known as Coventry versus Westward where the court clearly indicated that the burden of proof isn't the same as a D1 use variance recognizing that the underlying zoning contemplates this particular use so instead what the court said is the applicant has to demonstrate that the site can overcome any problems that may be associated with the fact that the lot coverage that we are requesting exceeds the uh exceeds the ordinance standards put another way can the site still function adequately and without also adversely impacting the public at large again not withstanding the uh the deficient lot coverage I think the short answer is yes I think from a special reason standpoint uh while significant improvements and uh upgrades uh are being proposed uh to the club as I mentioned the increase over the existing coverage is really imperceptible uh as a practical matter and for the record I believe that the upgrades are tangible in terms of overall uh benefits to the club and the members the guests and the public that utilize it and again just to summarize modernizing sort of older outdated buildings uh increasing formalizing the parking Supply uh enhancing the on-site circulation providing for additional uh storage uh for equipment uh ADA compliance uh you've heard the uh from all the witnesses as to what the uh the benefits overall are to the property uh secondly recognizing that uh the purpose of a lot coverage from a regulatory standpoint is essentially twofold one is to control storm water runoff and the other is to assure aesthetically that the property contains adequate open space and Landscaping so it's basically twofold the purpose of the coverage requirement uh the applicant's engineer testified with regard to storm water how it will be appropriately managed on the site you just heard from our landscape architect who described the new landscaping and then and the associated plantings that are to provide a visual relief not only internally but perhaps more importantly to Screen development and related impervious coverage from the public realm and adjacent residential uh properties I would also point out in terms of the uh Coventry Westwood test that the applicant complies with all the other conditional use standards including the building coverage requirement it's well below the allowable building coverage requirement uh as well as the other relevant r43 Zone standards which also apply to this application including for setbacks and including for f where as much as 25% is permitted by zoning and we're roughly with this proposal about a third of of that so I think it's readily uh evident from a planning perspective that the applicant can overcome any problems associated with the minimal excess coverage and I I see no substantial detriment uh to the public good or substantial impairment to the Zone plan if that D3 variance is granted turning to the bulk variance relief parking uh number of off street parking stalls I think it's either 149 or 150 are technically required for this use you heard from Mr perago our traffic and parking expert at the last hearing on this variance I would emphasize from a planning perspective I think what's most critical is that the board had previously granted a variance to the applicant essentially concluding that uh it was I think either 72 or 74 spaces were adequate to serve the club in other words at that point there was an establishment of sort of a baseline need and that couple with the fact that the site improvements here as you've heard are not intended to increase existing club membership or result in any change in the current operation still the applicant is adding physically adding eight new spaces as part of the current application although the improvements are not again adding to uh parking demand as a practical matter I see this as a C2 type variants where the benefits associated with only providing as much parking as necessary not withstanding the ordinance requirement and therefore limiting overall site disturbance and avoiding additional pervious coverage substantially outweighing any uh detrimental impacts steep slope disturbance your ordinance regulates any disturbance of slopes over 15% this is being proposed in relation to the carriage house uh expansion and it is also relatively minimal in nature it is roughly about 2700 Square ft uh of exceedance of the ordinance limits on slope disturb over 15% I think in this instance the key is that the area to be disturbed consists of slopes sort of within the interior developed portion of the site next to the existing Carriage House uh this area has been previously Disturbed uh I think you can make a a distinction between these slopes where the ground has actually been modified over time with the bulk of the property slopes which are along the perimeter have not been touched they remain vegetated and we are not proposing any disturbance of those slopes on the uh property I think the if you look at where the existing uh Carriage House is located and look at the proposed expansion it's really sort of unavoidable in terms of the nature and scope of the uh proposal again with the the applicant seeking to upgrade and modernize the carriage house uh as was described by our site engineer there would be no adverse impacts association with this disturbance either on or off site due to the on-site storm water management uh measures and safeguards which uh our engineer as I mentioned had testified to I actually see this as sort of a combination C1 and C2 type variants again recognizing that the disturbance allows the applicant to upgrade the club facilities in the most logical location to accommodate the uh expansion and I do not see any substantially adverse uh impacts to the public good or to the Zone plan should the board uh Grant this uh variance again only a small amount of slope disturbance again within sort of a previously uh developed portion of the uh site rather than the perimeter areas where there are what I characterizes sort of natural slopes uh and then lastly there are a number of technical variances associated with the improvements to Pat's house uh and this is because Pat's house is considered an accessory structure and we're in an underlying residential Zone as I mentioned r43 uh and these variances stem from the fact that the city has sort of strict limits for accessory structures in residential zones and as I read the uh ordinance the I think they're principally intended for garages uh as EX accessory to a single family house and maybe even sheds uh as opposed to P house which is really integral to the club and already exceeds the ordinance uh limits so the ordinance has a limit on the size of an accessory structure of 576 Square ft also uh dimensions of no more than 24x 24 which if you do that multiplication guess what you get 576 square feet and to me that it is sort of intended for up to a two-car detached garage those particular measurements Pat's house in the existing condition is 1,120 square ft so it already exceeds and the proposal is just to do a minor 55 square foot addition on the ground uh floor uh again bottom line I see this variance is really insignificant and especially in the context of a club which has multiple buildings and improvements it's not a single family house where you looking to control or limit uh basically a a garage or a shed or any other perent structure that goes with a single family development I think the same rationale applies for the increase in the height of the structure again there's a 15t height limit I think again it's intended for single family structures rather than a club with sort of multiple facilities where you may have issues in determining what's principal and what's an accessory uh structure uh and you already it's already partially a twostory uh structure the applicant proposing to raise the height which I think is 19.2 feet now to 27.7 Ft uh and and we also increase the two-story portion over what currently exists and the balance would comply with that on story 15t height limit so again given the conditions the context the function and the aesthetic up up grades proposed I think the relief uh in this instance can be granted and I think it would be a C2 type variance uh I'd also uh kind of would indicate that the distance of Pat's house from the nearest Residential Properties which are actually the ones at the higher elevations uh they they're intervening uh Woods there's a significant separation and with regard to the houses across brandwood uh Drive uh there will be significant new Landscaping which will basically uh screen the structure which I think is 170 ft away from that property Frontage on brandwood so again I think this relief can be granted without substantial de detriment to the public good or substantial impairment of the Zone plant and then just lastly for the record since I uh am profer C2 variants relief uh I believe all of the bulk variances would Advance at least three purposes of the statute they would be purposes a g and I and just briefly a would be to guide development in a matter that promotes the public welfare G is to provide sufficient space uh in appropriate locations for a variety of uses and uh purpose I is to promote a desirable uh visual environment and I would also just cite one of the other master plan goals which is the city encourages development proposals which uh PR OTE recreational opportunities within Summit to serve present and future residences so I I think that covers Mr chairman the all the the relief that we're seeking questions no questions thank you um I don't have any questions either it was a very thorough presentation okay thank you questions from the board I have a question Mr chairman um you had mentioned 55 sare ft on Pat's house but you mentioned first floor what the second floor expansion so I noticed it in the plans here you're only showing about 55 ft but we're expanding the second floor what is I'm sorry the built portion is 88 you have to come up and use a microphone and identify yourself um the architect bran Cooney just about earlier the that's yours uh it's 885 ft built and about 360 uh of the deck portion the second floor right so so I I'll the reason that it's 5 is because the ordinance talks about um the the ground floor area so that's what we're noting that it's an additional 55 square feet to the ground floor thank you yeah other questions um if it's an older building Pat's house why did we talk the fire department out of suppression and why wouldn't we want to have that in there I think that's a question for the architect no I'm I'm saying again know I'm thinking it's more in uh if if you're looking for variances on that building don't you want to protect it yes but I think the variances unless I'm mistaken Mr chairman don't relate to the additional improvements that we've made that the architect described in response to the uh fire officials uh request uh I think that I didn't think that triggered any other relief other than the relief that we originally had requested if that makes any sense if I I think I have I I don't I really don't do not understand not putting the fire suppression into an older building but that's I don't know who I'm supposed to ask it of but uh you're the last witness so my shot not my expertise though I mean I I I would you know I would stand by the they may want to consider it testimony of our AR if I can expand on a little bit it's not required by the building code it's not because of the size not required I heard you say that it's always but it's always a good choice in my opinion you know I still come from the old time when the fire fire department said we'd like a thing you got a thing there you know that's what they wanted unfortunately you can't force them to do it but you well you know we're doing a lot of other things and that we're letting them do maybe they do something for us any other questions one response to the last comments so uh we did look at fire suppression for Pat's house and the closest fire line to the building is down steep slopes through the hockey rink down to bronw half it would be 170 foot trench that we'd have to go all the way to the street is cost prohibitive very cost prohibitive to actually adding it for about eight sprinkler heads which by code we don't require so it was it's really that it was that was our our imp doing it the other thing is I mean the building's been there for 70 years and they haven't had any problems they're adding an additional door for eass in case there's a problem and there are alarms in the the building so I think there is sufficient um fire safety precautions that are being taken would you say that the building use is going to significantly increase with the addition of a second floor and the num and the viewing area because not necessarily I think it provides a better viewing for people watching but it doesn't necessarily mean that more people are going to actually use the building at one time is there another place um where you could draw the water for the sprinklers besides running a trench I mean you have a pool and a rink both use water on either side of Pat's house and then you have your main building so there are obviously other water lines I think a trenches you know I could see where you maybe would say Okay digging a trench specifically for Pat's house but just pulling water out of another line on the property have you looked at that um yeah we've explored uh we've actually had all the options uh looked at and the way to get sprinklers to this building you'd have to if you could follow my Mouse um you can't pull off the other buildings um water source we it didn't have it doesn't have enough actually water capacity to do it so you'd have to go all the way to the street to get the capacity you would need B our engineering so you'd have to go straight down this path essentially around or under the Carriage House Edition and through all the way to brenwood maybe this I should have asked this earlier maybe is a tradeoff forget Pat's building how about the main building the new is the new area already sprinkler oh yeah okay yeah so you know depending on the occupancy use of Pat's house I can you know it's always nice to have a wish list if you could get it done but in this case at least they put the extra exit in and it is does have a fire alarm system so it has early warning so you I'm because you're not required by the building code I get it so you're good all right other qu only because we're running out of time uh other questions from the board I have a question but to our attorney um for the electric vehicle spots what is the regulations for this type of um property oh they're complicated to be honest I mean I I'd have to Def you know they're the states made all these requirements now with the electrical vehicle spots like you go buy a WWA and they have them there and then they don't count them in our parking calculation things like I haven't looked at it recently so if I could just jump in the traffic expert actually answer that and he did in his testimony state that only one is required and that's what we're proposing and then you get a bonus um counted towards your off street parking so even though we're putting in eight spaces we get the bonus so it's nine spaces so you only put in one EV in one EV which is that's the only thing that's required thank you sorry about that I okay anything else from the board any questions for this witness from the public seeing none I think we're going to have to conclude tonight for this case and bring you back on the I just have a summation and that's it how much time do you think you're going to need seven minutes I can do it uh I can do this in five no uh no okay let's go there's also public comments uh yes it's not going to work the seven minutes they tell me it's not going to work no your comments have to come before the before the uh let us do the public comments because you're here tonight let us do those um if there are any public comments please come forward now um give us your name your address you'll be sworn in um and again use the mic and kindly raise your right hand do you swear affirm the testimony about the giveness matters the truth the whole truth and that's the truth I do state your full name for the records by yeah my name is Matthew Rosen CR I live on 24 brandwood drive all right do you need to spell you're good I'm good okay uh yeah I live uh directly across brandwood drive from The Beacon Hill ice rink my wife two daughters and I moved uh here in 2021 and uh we love our neighborhood and living in Summit one thing we hadn't expected about our otherwise quiet res residential neighborhood was the ice rink activity including the use of Zamboni and the small tractor that moves ice and snow uh back and forth from it uh my daughters will be awakened uh on or before 6:00 a and uh often after 11: p.m even on school nights well last six months the C leadership and employees especially Pascal and Russ have given us reason to believe they are acting in good faith and want to maintain Good Neighbor relationships they have agreed to shorten the weekday Rink hours we thought between between 7:00 a.m. and 10:30 p.m. that is correct tonight I heard 11: p.m. I'm a little confused on that um except in emergencies except uh such as inclement weather um this means my daughter will be able to sleep my daughter will be able to sleep properly and wake up ready for school they have agreed to turn off the bright rink lights when there aren't people on the ice uh which they have recently been doing um which also uh helps us greatly um so far this season they appear to be keeping the new schedule and it makes a huge difference uh in addition as I understand the club has the opportunity to acquire an electric Zamboni which will reduce noise and we would surely appreciate that um however we can't ignore the difficulty of the first two Winters we spent in Summit the club's attorney has Justified the use of noisy equipment earlier and later than normally allowed as being permitted by regulations intended to facilitate emergency snow re removal which I think kind of flies in the face of Common Sense and neighborliness regardless of its technical legality we also feel that at times they have understated the level of disruption produced by their current equipment this makes me nervous many years ago uh our uh neighbors who have been in theor neighborhood longer shared with us that there was another phase of Club planning and construction where another agreement was reached between the club and neighbors that agreement promised among other things that the ice rink would be moved to a different side of the club um of course that never came to pass and that agreement was long forgotten even though as I said that was years ago and the club leadership and its membership has changed that history also makes me nervous therefore in case the club um at sometime in the future cease their Good Neighbor practices uh we hope that the zoning board will ensure that the agreed upon restrictions and noise be made enforcable and that um the these new plans and and plantings will be maintained through the future thank you is there a Poss we did this once before I'm forgetting how we did it um to make somebody carry out various um requ request requirements of um actions um well we do have this so we have the conditions of approval um which are enforcable by the zoning officer right can can we explain to the to the uh to the public how that works go ahead we we've shared the conditions of approval are part of a negotiation with the neighbors just several meetings we've had with them over the time and you they've all receiv copies but if a um if all of a sudden your successor 10 years from now stops doing these yes are we intending to record record the conditions um we could record the resolution you want to record the resolution the the whole resolution just record the resolution sure we can do that then we're not you know that's fine then there'll be a record there'll be a public record because when it's 11:15 you do that you got to have to come up and get under Ro if you want to talk can I ask a question before we get the next sure um person you're the boss no I'm not far from it I think my wife is um well that's true can I just get something to clarify the Zamboni drives itself or is it pulled by a tractor no somebody drives the so it's self-propelled yes okay raise your right hand I was up here before no but I didn't put you on the road right it's a difference when you ask a question and when you when you're telling us what you think different process do you swear firm testimony about the G matters the truth the whole truth and not the about the truth yes State full name for the records by your last name Andrea dug l l IU 35 woodfern Road um when the zambon is going at 11:15 so what do we do we don't want to call call the police I don't want to go out over to the ice rink and say in my pajamas like could you turn it off I I think what you do is the the next business day you contact the zoning official and you say you know if they do it once we're going to Live and Let Live right but if it becomes an all week pattern you call the zoning official and then they will contact them and warn them that if they don't stop doing it they're going to get issued a no a violation and that's the and how much weight does that actually carry I don't want they don't want to go to Municipal Court they can be fine $22,000 or you know it's it's a pain in the neck they're not going to no nor do they want the pr correct so I I believe I believe that if we record it it I think it should be mostly okay okay I mean do I know for fact that they will never go beyond 11 o' I know for a fact they will but I hope that they and they testified to that they've testified to the fact that there will be occasions when there are games that will go past 10:30 that's going to happen and the Zamboni has to go out afterwards time out no no time Mr chairman I don't think that was I don't recall that part of the testimony that there were were going to be games past 10:30 that they could there's no skating after 10:00 right no skating after 10:00 but they have to clean up and get but we're talking about being transparent and honest exactly so when the club absolutely means that they're going to stop based on their promise to us but might it happen sometime that they go a little Beyond everyone has to understand that that might happen that's all the intention is to comply with the conditions of approval which we will record right okay anything else any other folks wish to aine on this particular application seeing none uh before uh we we're not going to have time for your summation sorry okay um so if everyone agrees we will carry this to December the 9th the same as the prior one is there a motion to do so and you'll grant us the time to act and yes I'll make a motion and carry to December 9th second okay chairman Steiner yes Mr Nelson yes just want to ask the question nobody else in the public needed to be heard on this case that's what I asked him for I'm sorry I missed it okay okay Miss Z do yes Mr Malay yes Miss Cho yes Mr feskin yes Mr Chuli yes the motion carries okay we are going to take a f minute break because we all need it quter Rob will be back e e e e e e e e e e now here he comes okay it soon he walks in the door he going to listen while we're going um a board member I am yes well I came out why did you let him in you don't need his vote you can start uh well actually what I am going to do is announce that I'm going to change the agenda slightly uh I'm going to table the U part of the Clos session relative to the uh um rfqs and we'll do that at one of our next meetings which we'll take that out but we will maintain the uh the review of uh how do we quote it the review of uh policy and procedures we'll leave that in the Clos session well that uh that just gave you an extra few minutes there so uh we we will keep going with you uh until probably 10:35 or so okay thank you hopefully we won't need all that time do we have any exhib do we have we're still waiting for them do we have exhibits that we are going to Mark during the proceeding that we can Mark now yes um can we mark this exhibit A1 I did have send it to Stephanie if we could Mark that maybe M La is here so we can he's going to listen while he wants nothing else should you're up easy peasy okay now we're ready good evening Mr chairman members of the board Samantha Alonso of Alonso and Weber Jim keeps getting upset with me by the way for not mentioning our uh firm name hi Jim I know he's watching thank you um um uh here on behalf of the applicants Bill and Emily Eckman for their property at 44 lenux Road they have been working since 2021 on the construction of their new home it is mid construction I understand near completion I'm Sorry Miss Alonso can you just get a little closer to the mic yeah I can't hear you too well maybe lower is that better yeah much better thank you yeah it's better after purchasing their property in 201 21 uh they started designing their new home it's currently under construction this proposal is really for the exterior improvements for steep slope disturbance of 3,800 Square ft where none is permitted of the 15% or more slopes to allow the front walkway I'm just going to uh Circle the areas that we're talking about out on the screen can you see that blue circle no I need to be a little bit bigger why don't you leave that why don't you leave that to your professionals show us the Ste so just the I'm just showing what areas we're talking about as part of the proposal and what is part of the construction permit go ahead okay this the pool and this area of the patio is part of this proposal everything else has already been permitted as part of the construction permit okay so that was less than the amount of steep slope that can be disturbed I'm sorry that what you did was less than the 1,000 ft or the 1500 sare ft that can be disturbed right what's permitted under Con on the under the construction permit yes yes it's under a th000 square fet now you want to add the pool so now you have to disturb more area and the walkway they'd like to move yes we're good we're good okay I'm trying to help thank you I'm not you know I missed you Dennis it's been a while I'm a distraction could I have Bill and Emily sworn in yes raise your right hand do you swear affirm ATT morning you're about to give this matters the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth yes yes State your full for records by your last name ladies first is a mul School Emily Cru Emily and last name is spelled c m i x Bill emman e c all right we're good to go thank you uh bill could you please uh let us know first you own the property is that right that's correct and can you tell us a little bit about uh the the existing and proposed um yeah look we're excited to uh to be here um as as Sam mentioned where um you know the exterior of the home has been um virtually completed so now we're focused on the landscaping and the storm water management uh plan um the first priority and why we're here is improving the slope um to the ensure the runoff of the uh excess rainwater is is permanently handled properly um the rear downhill neighbor um had had during this summer storm in July and August um had uh had some excess rain water from our property um so that's why we're here to get the approval and then we put in um retaining walls at the rear of the property um I think a sort of we're here for this the high the high slope or the steep slope um to get that approved so we can then put in the retaining wall um as well as the uh drywall system to help uh help manage all this R off permanently and you're also proposing a pool in perula is that right yeah a pool you're going to have to speak up louder yep uh yes we're looking to do a pool um the pera patio um as I mentioned the retaining walls the Landscaping the related drain drainage and then this um the walkway in the front to to lenux Road and did you have a chance to take a look at the administrative reports of the boards professionals and agencies yeah we we did and and we agreed to them and I'm subject to the comments that our experts um have uh did you have experts assist you with this application we did uh right there and Andrew Clark on engineering and then um uh Harmony Design Group Mark Mark niss and you had a chance to speak with your neighbors you briefly mentioned but could you just discuss that a little bit further yeah Emily and I spoke with you know all of our neb in the past month we gave them you know sort of an update on the project and the plan and they were all here planning to we cleared them out um we're up and told them we're planning to move in the spring um and they're positive and and look forward to the construction being finished um and they're they're happy our house is is now finished and we've moved on to the Landscaping um as I mentioned due to the summer that summer storm we had um in early August there was erosion on the rear neighbor um so after that happened he he reached out to us it's Emily and I um I immediately connected with him looped in our professionals um we sent you know confirmed to him that this is the plan we sent him a detailed email um to properly ensure you know adequate storm water management and Andrew's here today to help walk through that um those details to ensure it's properly addressed thank you uh that's all I have for any questions for the uh for the owners okay move on thank thank you thank you you just stay there you you want to hold the mic I'll kindly raise your right hand Mr Clark do you swear affirm a testimony about give this matters the truth the whole CH but the truth I do and Mr chairman will you accept Mr CL yes we do welcome back see me too much clearly not too much all right is this working all right I'll jump right in um I'm making reference two plans that have been submitted as part of this application the first um sheet I was going to reference is the topographic survey uh dated December 17 2022 and then last Revis June 133 2024 uh the topographic survey I conducted um initially in November of 2021 when the project uh was getting going uh I did the topographic survey of the property and I'll just briefly outline those existing conditions that uh were in place before any work took place so this is uh lot 20 and block 2501 I have an inset up here uh indicating where on lenux road it is wit regge is just to the um North the intersection with RIT regge we had an existing dwelling um in the location as shown on the survey there was a driveway coming around the right side to sort of a big parking area in the back and then extending further back to the detached garage which was uh positioned pretty far back on the lot uh there's also a patio that was servicing and its modest walk to the front door the steep slope areas that are in question and are subject of this application there are two areas of steep slopes there's one in the front that that sort of wraps around a little bit there's a piece in the middle that's not steep slopes by definition and that was all just to the left of the driveway along the frontage and then then in the back left corner to the left of that existing detached garage there was another smaller area of slopes that area in the back is about 1,250 ft the area in the front is about 3700 Square fet um those areas um on a relative basis I've been in front of this board a number of times for numerous steep slope applications and in this case it's not a predominant characteristic of the property which is sometimes or often the case in Summit certainly for the variance applications you know the the steep slopes make up about 135% of the property here just for reference um the existing drainage pattern sort of in the middle of the house everything from the about the center of that existing house forward flow towards and Pitch towards the road and from there back uh it pitches from the left side by that Lot 21 towards the driveway um and then to the rear so it comes around the drainage patterns was flow would come around towards the driveway and then head towards the neighbor in the back to the right of the driveway and garage area was pretty flat but ultimately also pitched to this area that's sort of the low spot behind that original existing detached garage and there were no observable storm water measures control measures on site in the original survey the roof leaders discharge at grade and um there there were no dry Wells that were identified or observable so there was sort of uncontrolled runoff condition in the existing condition so as was indicated a permit was secured that permit did make maintain thresholds and have silt fences established that respected those steep soope areas there was a little bit of disturbance in the front where the walkway was coming out but we were within that um permitted waiver limit of 1,000 square ft um and and a permit was secured for the dwelling and the driveway and a walk that was originally planned to come out and then turn immediately to the driveway and of course the patio area originally what was contemplated pled was the the pool arrangement in the back right corner as this project has progressed uh the the owners have had a chance to contemplate the outside a little more carefully and so what's driving the need for the disturbance of steep slopes at this point is the decision uh for two things primarily one is to take that pool that was being considered in the back sort of past the end of the driveway and position it in the back left corner where it's better connected and oriented to the to the outdoor space in the patio and also much more directly visible from the living areas when it was in the back right it was sort of past the garage and it was a lot harder in in considering it that to have line of sight which you know is usually a an ideal condition certainly if you have kids um so that's that's driving the disturbance in this rear steep slope section in the back and and we're not quite proposing to disturb all of it but a good portion of it um 1,000 ft of the 1250 and then the other factor is to create a more formal front entrance where you have the walk coming straight up uh to the front door instead of coming off over to the driveway I think the the the driving um intent there is to not have guests that have to walk you know partially up the drive driveway in order to get to the walk but have a more conventional sort of I guess old school formal entrance into the to the front door and and so the disturbance of this in the front we're not really like restructuring it so much as accounting for the disturbance that will occur by putting that walkway in and then when it's done the the grades will be a little a little more modest along the walkway area and then landscaped so that's what is driving the um the disturbance of these two areas to um frame out then how we're approaching storm water obviously whenever we do these kinds of things that's one of the main concerns in fact for any project in Summit it's a main concern but certainly a heightened concern when we're disturbing steep slopes and seeking variance relief so what we're proposing to do is have a tank system in the front it was originally in the permit plans contemplated to be in the backyard but in like of some of the uh effects that we saw during the construction with the uh big rain event we had in uh mid August I think everyone probably remembers that 4 Ines that came in two hours um it it seems to make sense to redirect that drywell system to the front if for no other reason that when there's an overflow condition in in an extreme storm event it won't be overflowing to the rear to the neighborhood who's already been affected uh during the construction process so the proposed storm water system is going to account for the uh surround of the pool the entire dwelling roof area and the driveway there was a comment um by the board engineer about converting the inlet at the end of the driveway to a trench drain we have no problem doing that uh that's not a problem what we have in the back in terms of picking up this patio and any runoff across the yard area this yard is going to be um it's a little irregular now in terms of the grading so we're going to get a pretty regularly graded backyard it's going to be about a 2% 2 and 1/2% slope that's going to move towards the wall that we're putting along the back this wall at its highest point is a little under 4T and the rest of it is less than that it's only uh less than 2 ft here at the backner corner and so that where the belly of the yard is where all that flow was going before is the highest point of the wall at about 4T a little under so what we're going to do is on top of that wall we're going to put uh an infiltration drain so it's a passive drain with a 6in perforated pipe and a stone trench and usually put some PE gravel or river rock on the surface so it's uh got some some aesthetic value to it but any water that makes its way to this wall will be C captured in that perforated pipe routed in piping down and to the drywell all the roof lers of course will tie directly into the drywall for permitting purposes in Summit you're required to manage the increase in impervious coverage for a project in this case that's about 2,800 square ft of new impervious that we're proposing what we're proposing to manage with the drywell system is about 7900 Square ft so it's not quite three times what you would normally be looking at a requirement for a permit um it's like 2.7 times that amount so so it's a very robust system that's going to result ultimately in a net Improvement in the storm water especially considering the existing condition had no formal storm water management to speak of so that's the proposed storm water system uh capturing the driveway and and whatever makes its way from the patio I think that truthfully under most the the overwhelming majority of storms the runoff from this patio or even this patio isn't ever really going to reach our system in the first place because we have a very gently graded yard landscaping normal storms you don't get surface runoff across a big yard like that unless you have really intense rains and you know know just to keep it in reference the system is designed to handle 3 in of rain uh so a 3-in rainstorm that so far I just double checked before it came out tonight we've seen that three times this year of course the one time was 4 in and it was in two hours so it was that's captures everyone's attention but we three is about a normal number for for my observations over the past 15 20 years usually get between two and four events that are 3 in or more in a 24hour period so we're in the in the norm right now this year so far um so that type of storm only happens a few times a year and we're designed to handle that so it would be that extraordinary storm like that 4 in the the the problem with that was it was super intense so even if you have a robust system design sometimes it doesn't capture at all CU it's just coming so fast um but that's the summary I think that we've presented a very strong storm water plan and that the disturbance to the steep slope areas is going to be properly managed in terms of the construction process and at the end of the the the process with a fully landscaped site um and and properly graded area with the storm water in place uh I think there um should be no problem um with approving a variance like this uh as long as it's as I said managed properly during the construction process the finished product I think is going to be uh beautiful and welld designed and and have a strong storm water component to it and with that I could either run through the memo or uh we can start with questions however you want to do it let Marie pick up the questions that she that you haven't picked up um thank you um I wanted to talk about that that dryw system you could go back to that maybe you said it and I and I missed it but that um that Inlet that's back by the patio right that's um can you can you talk about how that is supposed to collect the patio and bring it to the front yeah so the inlet that's near the patio is more for I'll say uh owner purposes in that the the left side of the house there's a it's pretty flat in there it's pretty gently graded and so I wanted to put that in there just as an extra measure in case we get some accumulated water near the pool area it would get in there but in terms of overall grading and how any runoff from this patio would end up in the system it would be any water that passes into the yard from that and then makes its way to the wall in the back again I think except for those you know larger storms it's not really even going to reach that but we have that drain along the wall in case it does for those few storms where it does um you know that's instead of having a drain right along the edge of the patio you know I think that in other words the passive reality of that yard is that most rainfalls are just going to go into the grass in the yard and then they're going to infiltrate into the ground on the extraordinary storms or the bigger storm events where you get flows that develop those flows will make them way to the drain that sits at top that wall okay so now um let's talk about that drain that's along the wall um I I just wasn't it wasn't really depicted clearly for me that where that 6in PVC comes to the back of the garage I'm not sure how it's getting to the front right so yeah there's a lot of line work in the back there so it gets a little hard to follow but so the the the drain begins sort of just behind where the pool in the pergola is and and we may want to extend that all the way to the end of the wall but that comes down it wraps the corner of the wall and then the drain ends at the end of the wall but then the pipe continues down along that 207 contour and I have it turning towards the house there right and then and then running in another trench probably alongside the house along the roof leaders as a separate pipe um that would come around and tie into the tanks in the front so it's going to sort of follow around where the roof leaders are going okay that makes sense and and you did ask about the inverts I I did attempt to label them but again there's a lot going on in in some of these areas but I have an invert labeled here the invert of that pipe from here to the end of the wall where I have another label for the invert it comes down 2 feet here and then from there to the tank it comes down about 5T okay so there's definitely enough pitch and that was all considered that's really what I was concerned about right I just want to make sure we left okay um you know one thing I I don't know that I said this in my letter but I was I was noticing the um the emergency generator and the air conditioning units right they're they're I I know that they're not part of it but are they screen yeah those are required to be screened per the ordinance as as is the pool equipment in the back I think I think you may have mentioned the pool equipment or certainly that'll have to be screened in accordance with um the the the ordinance requirements okay um I and I did note that you your your SE kits are in oversized so I just wanted to make sure the board noted that that they were they were robust for what you were collecting um yeah and and you had asked a question in the front end of your memo about um the variance plan versus the lot grading plan I think it's a good point I deliberately made this and labeled it as a variance plan for this purpose so we wouldn't get confused with the loot grading plan that's already on file and undetermined so what will happen is if if we have a positive result tonight I will fully revise the grading plan to match what's on this variance plan with all the detailing and soil erosion notes and we'll have to update the soil erosion permit which we have so it'll have to be updated to the changes okay all right that makes sense um I I think that was I think that was all I needed CL you know what one more thing um so your your total disturbance on the lot is that 3,800 Square F feet of steep slope you're like my Checker sorry yeah no no no that's that's good it it's it that that is a typo down in the in the little U legend that I have there it should be 3,800 sare ft² is the total disturbance okay quite right okay I think that was I think that was all my questions you Mr chairman just a quick question regarding the disturbance that you're proposing in the front are there any trees that are being removed as a result of that I'm sorry if I don't know the site very well okay so it's not disturbing that but it's more for aesthetic reasons yeah and because we're going to put a walk cutting into that slope so you know we're going to have to shape out you know the ground around it and sort of normalize that for landscaping but not a removal of any significant Tre no result that's also in that back area the benefits of you leveling that back area with the retaining wall and the drainage is to help control and convey and redirect some of the certainly yes thank you for members um th this drawing that you have up here um I think the one that I have maybe the only differences is that does everybody have one like that where the house is not shaded or I'm just making sure we have this shading the shading is is a little Hit or Miss depending on the printing so so this one I printed tonight at Staples and the shading is not as prominent as as as those is the same plan it is the same plan this is this is last last revised no November 5th 2024 so right by my signature right down where you just your hand just the right well this one says right under your finger the one that I see says July 20 so I'm looking right but the revision thing is right there yeah so that is the same plan your shading is just better on that one okay I just make sure we're looking at the same thing and then um was there a walkway in the original house there was no walkway design or there was well you mean in the original permit plan in the original permit plan right so the permit plan we came out and then we came straight across to the driveway okay so that what looks like a heavy line there okay and then um the last question is can you clarify you had said something about now our our storm water always has to be designed for a 3-in storm but you mentioned something about it being 2.7 times right so so maybe that was a little confusing I was looking at the volume I'm like it's definitely not 2.7 times so so yes we're required to design for a 3-in storm and that 3-in storm shall be applied to the increase in impervious coverage that's being proposed correct and so in this case what I'm pointing out is that the increase in coverage is about 2,800 square ft but we're managing 7900 Square ft so that 7900 square fet that we're managing with this system is about 2.7 times what you would normally be required to to handle for a permit process okay thank you to say a little different the capacity of the system you're designing is 2.7 times more than you're required that's right okay yeah and it's also a functional design so you know we want to handle the whole roof and then when I put it out here and put a Tren strain now I have to handle the whole driveway too so so the sizing is key to what am I actually managing it just turns out that what I end up managing in this case quite deliberately is a lot more than what would be required by permit so can you clarify something for me sure so the drainage system was placed in the front yard because of the trench system for the driveway no it's because when you when you design a system like this there's always an overflow that's in play um for that extraordinary storm when I put it in the front and have a trench strain at the end of the driveway that trench strain becomes the Overflow if if I had the system in the back which I originally did the Overflow would have been the drain at the top of the wall and so for me it it it seems a better design and less potential impact to a neighbor in the back who's already been impacted by the construction process to move this out to the front so that on on the unusual case where we have an overflow Condition it's just flowing into the street so so by placing it in the front yard like this that becomes part of the steep slope disturbance no actually that where we're putting the tanks is not within that it's kind of hard to see on this plan but it's just just outside of it the the the steep slope disturbances almost primarily because of the front walk and maybe this isn't your perview but this that front walk if you get to the second set of stairs from the house that dark line is that a patio this dark line that comes no they're they're framing that side with a wall just to so it's not sloped they want to have sort of a leveled planting area that's around the the the house in the front there so is that currently done cuz the grading drops off on that side is that currently done that wall has not been constructed yet so that was that part of the original plan yes so we're kind of stuck CU can't use we can't use the original plan because your plan is to put a retain a decorative wall there and if we don't approve the sidewalk what do you do with the wall well the wall the wall is is part of the permit plan so the only difference between so is part of the original plan yes the only difference between this and the permit plan is the walk turning and going towards the driveway or coming straight out to the road and that would significantly reduce the steep slope disturbance if we if we turned and went straight to the driveway that's right and really the only reason we want the straight sidew is because we want it to look more formal correct it's it's in a certainly um I have one more question too the X on this is that where the 28 in Maple is right there where the pera is correct that's correct any more questions from the board note that there is no public so I'm not going to ask just a quick question if um with the tree that was called out right there be any other places to put the equipment is that what's requ well the the the tree removal it's it's Square in the middle of the pergola that's there the pool equipment is actually just behind the pergola and I think you have to disturb that area anyway you can't keep that tree right and have the pool no that you're going to disturb the roots too much yeah so again I don't know if there is for you I guess that's the architect over I'm not sure um was the pool in the original permit plan yes but in a different location correct yeah it was in the back right okay and the patio and all that was in the original permit plan the patio uh adjacent to the house was all on the original permit I I wasn't involved with were there any variances for the original per plan no it was 9.99 Square ft right almost a th000 square ft steep slope disturbance it's well it's the front that's killing you at this point I I think it was recommended right that they come and get the variants and and you know look at what they can do to the storm water and improve their plan as best as they can since they were going to have to come to the board anyway just for everybody else a question is the front formal walkway very common on lenx Lennox is is we were just talking about this there's there's a considerable variety along Lennox in terms of the front yards and the the presentation of the houses you know some of them are set a lot farther back and so they don't have that walk because it's almost just too long uh some some have like a loop drive that goes in front um so it's a little bit of a mix bag but there are some that do have that that that type of presentation any other questions okay can we go ahead and move to your next witness yes thank you you want me to talk about the trees real quick can we one we do have comments from the forcer that I think bear uh quick commentary on so so the Forester commented on um the the particular comment that I was addressing is there is a a wall along the driveway sort of framing that right side of the driveway it's about 2 2 and 1/2 ft at its highest point but uh John linson's comment one of his comments was about some trees that are on the neighboring property and a concern as to whether they'd be impacted by the construction of the wall close to the line I went back out and surveyed those and that there are uh there's a double Hemlock right where that number eight is in there and then a little bit lower down near where the 2T Dimension is there's another 10in Hemlock and then there's a couple larger Pines the hemlocks are about 9 ft off the line the pine trees which are bigger and more substantial are about 16 17 ft off the line so I think we're okay with it but it in response to the comment uh We've agreed that you know we'll have an arborous look at those trees and evaluate whether or not there's anything we should be doing in terms of maintaining um you know and protecting the the health of the trees on the neighboring property and communicate with the neighbor on that and and address John's concerns in a meaningful way so I just want to make sure we put that on the record so I I was actually saving that question for the landscape architect so can we make that a condition that there will be further certainly one of his comments so you know we we agree to to address that yes thank you and I know it's late do does the board want to hear from the land AR you've got 15 minutes and you're done okay let's be quick U Mark nissum with Harmony Design Group um M you swear from teson be giveness matters the truth the whole truth and nothing but trueth I do and restate your name yes Mark niss hary Design Group uh 1520 Pine grve Avenue Westfield New Jersey I'm a licensed landscape architect give three boards you appeared before sure I've been before this board uh Westfield and Scotch PLS accept credentials we accept your credentials and she's got questions okay do you have questions for me or do you want me just go okay all right so we were on board to do the landscape design for the property uh we looked at the positioning of the pool in relationship to the living space in the house and the Terrace that we the rear patio that was already approved um so Shifting the pool over which allowed them to have a little bit more flat lawn space and contiguous lawn space Also better Vis visibility for their children uh uh from inside the house to the kids swimming in the pool uh so that facilitated the Steep slop or uh variance that um our engineer testified to uh the front walkway way was a design as we talked about mostly from an aesthetic standpoint to give that formal Center Hall Colonial look uh to the home and the the wall on this right side was already previously approved or in the site plants from um the original uh design we did do provide uh plantings to privatize all the equipment on the on the side of the house there's Evergreen screening uh to that uh the pool equipment is behind a uh wall like a focal wall behind the pergola and there's the Green Giant arbores that are going to line the entire perimeter which would provide uh privacy from the neighbors but if additional plantings need to be adjacent to it we can you know of course add a couple more evergreen shrubs um as necessary uh we do have a note on the plan regarding the arborist uh John linson's comment I was in contact with him regarding uh bringing out an arborist on the client's behalf and they've spoken to the neighbor about the concerns of the U Forester and they'll work with the neighbor and you know if Remediation in terms of feeding or um air spading to like Al loosen the soil compaction potentially if there's any compaction due to the construction of the wall that would adversely affect the roots on the trees you know that would be coordinated with the neighbor so that's been added that that note has been added to our plans to address that concern any and then you added three shade trees correct yes with John uh Mr linson's comment we did add three more uh shade trees in the rear uh two White Oaks and a u red maple so all Native shade trees to add additional shade trees as you know as reflected by the U Arbor uh Town Foresters comments okay and any questions professionals any the only comment I would have is that the other consideration in addition to the airs space is possibly root pruning root pruning before you construct the wall yes I have than you com okay numers I'm sorry so thank you chairman Steiner what what prevents the roots from all these trees infiltrating the drainage system in the back against the wall the the rear retaining wall but is an a drainer system on top of the on top so so you're saying the arbites the roots of any of the shade trees are the arbites right so honestly I think you would have to come up to but we we have a you have a Filter Fabric lining the trench correct that's right so uh so there's a fabric barrier between the soil and the stone in the gravel in the French drain so that fabric would prevent the roots from infiltrating into the into that uh drainage condition than okay other questions how big are the shade trees that you're putting in what's the diameter of the so it's it's caliper uh so three to 3 and 1 12 in caliper which is going to be um I'm using my hands now I'm going to say it's a shade tree about 3 Ines in diameter it's measured a foot off the ground that's how Nursery um stock is measured so height wise that's going to be about a 15t tall tree installed but the tree that's there now is is 28 in diameter is that right is that what I read on there correct yeah okay that's why we're complying with the uh replacement ordinance I think before we added those trees right more than more than because of all the green Giants we have 79 green Giants coming in plus additional other trees that were already on the plan shade trees and Native all you know native trees addressing you know some of the concerns so how many trees totally have you at are added in in this plan not just this plan but the whole plan oh okay you know because we we're talking about a a variance plan and a other plan because I think that 100 11 plus 79 that's uh 798 90 trees total okay comp the other landscape architect on the number but you're saying some of those were part of the original plan some of those were trees that were already appr to I mean when you go out there there's no trees yeah yeah right if you went out there there were no trees I did ex there will be the one Maple or Oak what is it o hopefully there'll be seven there'll be 90 when done okay any other questions yeah I don't know if this is maybe I should have asked the engineer the whole front yard going to be regraded slightly right there are a lot of steps yeah it's it's it's an accommodation for the walkway installation so it's not a dramatic regrading um you know so it's not like some of these project where we're tearing with walls and that sort of thing it's leveling you know sort of evening the grade a little bit as we install the stairs right now it's like all dead if I remember correctly it's just like dirt so it's really B basically beinged anyway cut a couple of the utilities in front so yeah that's that's why it looks that way now okay other questions for this witness not asking the public okay when do you have a summation for us I do not unless you need a little summary of no I don't mind not taking the time okay um I I have a question but it's kind of out of order the original plan that had the pool was the pool the same size in the original plan when the pool was in the right corner or did the pool get bigger Mr Clark's head is nauy so he's agreeing with you yes the same size was in the right side instead of the left side here comes here comes a drawing okay got me uh so the original pull was 20 by 40 and the new pool is uh proposed exactly 20 by 45 I don't think that might yeah it's 20 by 4 I don't think that microphone is on is it is the green light on okay yeah 20 by 45 is the proposed pool they do have a a child that's on the swim team our 10-year-old just made the swim team at the summit y so we um as part of that we just he's going to be swimming laps so we extended the pool five feet because we had the room and does that include the whole surface area around the pool too did that change like I mean all the the patio Stu talking about the Imp yeah can you take that that whole little thing and put it in the corner yeah everything one second I don't know the answer to that question we're doing lock coverage calculations in the back right now well the patio is probably comp with coverage right yes yes so it's yeah the the pool surr the pergola was the same size the pool surround is is like 70 square feet more mainly because of the dimensional change in the pool okay any other questions seeing none we will move towards uh no sumission from you anything that you as the applicants would like to say in closing as long as your attorney isn't going to we'll give you the option now just thank you thank you for the time okay uh we will go into executive session but first we will ask for conditions and the number of votes that are required uh well you only need four votes because it's just a SE barass that's good and I have four conditions as it turns out one the drainage plan will be revised as explained by Mr Clark at the time of the hearing and is to be reviewed and approved by the board's engineer all Mechanicals the AC and the generator are to be screened for the ordinance three the grading plan is to be updated and submitted to the board engineer for her review and approval and for the applicant is to retain a Consulting arborus to evaluate any impact on the neighbors trees that are located within 16 ft of the property line along the driveway they will discuss this disturbance with the neighbors and suggest tree save measures Tock those trees and five is our traditional one that uh they accept at the engineers report which is made aart part thereof got it who would like to start the discussion tonight Don you're can I make a can I make a comment first no sure yeah no I I was when I started here was probably 20 years ago and right around that time somebody brought in truckloads and truckloads of dirt to make a building go up into the air so they could see Manhattan and the governing body realized what a terrible idea that was and they wanted to make sure that nobody else would do that and that's why they created the Steep SL board and in the time that I did serve this board every time we had a steep slope case our Focus was on making sure that it was aesthetically correct that the steep slope was stabilized ized and that we improve the drainage conditions so I think those are the things that we should be focused on that the strict compliant with the steep slope coordinates is not the same type of ordinance as say coverage or setback or density or size of the structure just wanted to give you that that background because when you're trying to test out their missing what why they have a miss we have to see I think we should be giving some consideration to are they doing those other things that make this property work and the other thing that I noted was that although they told me the just inside of it that if this was a flat piece of land it complies with the coverage requirements so don't don't you know uh put those two things together that's that just thought that'd be helpful for you well said Mr go thank please um I just thought of another condition that we might want to add and that is to retain um especially as we're dealing with a neighbor that already had a problem that we retain um um storm water jurisdiction on storm water for two years is that acceptable yes of course thank you I've made it thank you so we'll add that Don I started thanks chairman I appreciate it um yeah you've been talking all year it's time great um I'll be quiet next time um I can support this application I was originally a little skeptical about itol um and I'm not blaming these applicants at all believe me uh but one of the things that I don't like is you know when a plan submitted it's approved and then we come back and then there's more variances required because it almost seems like things are um intentionally left out I don't like that but I don't you know that being said I don't think that's the case here I would be a little happier if the stairs went in the front stairs went the way the way they were originally um designed but I can still support the project uh I walked that street many times a couple of weeks ago for other reasons and um I it's it it's basically flat now anyway from the construction equipment so it's it's um not a big deal I can support it um and you know the drainage system is going to be hopefully a vast Improvement um to what is there now although I guess not what's there now is Mother Nature and I don't know how we can improve our mother nature but we're going to try uh so I can support this this project so I vote Yes yeah following up on what Mr Nelson said uh I too can support this application uh clearly they're here because of a design change so I don't think they're coming to ask for forgiveness like we've seen few too many times right Don um I also believe that uh steep slope disturbance should be a proportion of a site so I I don't know that a almost an acre site should be treated the same way as a 10,000 foot site but that's for us to deliberate as we go down the line um so I think the public benefit is clear this is going to vastly improve uh storm water management for this site so that's reason enough for me yeah I can support as well for the same reasons they Above and Beyond in terms of storm waterer management I do want to ask one question it's nothing to do with deliberations but and it's nothing do with the application but the historic reservation commission noted that they weren't notified of this Demolition and they were supposed to been is that that's something they did I assume is that something I don't recall that ever happened before I honestly don't know okay just I just want to make sure it was on the record that what we'll do is we'll ask Stephanie to follow up and get back to get back to them and let them nothing thecan did yeah it doesn't affect our deliberation yes you know but I I can support the application I think the Steep SL variance it's not we've had some much more extreme steep low variances lately this one seems reasonable given the circumstances um and like I said very effective storm water management to go along with it I can support it yeah I I actually like this one uh for a number of reasons uh moving the pool to me is a believe it or not a safety issue if the parents can see the uh the summit SEAL swimming back and forth and his friends or her friends and all the friends that get to to come over and uh you know what's it 4 seconds something happens and you know we regret it for the rest of our lives so uh moving that pool makes sense to me uh then rather than having it over by the driveway it's closer to the ambulance but that's not who we want um I'm sorry but uh there's a lot of uh a lot of good portions here and safety is one of them uh I would look for a motion to approve if someone would like to S so moved second Vice chairman lus yes Mr Yuko yes Mr Nelson yes Miss Zan yes Mr Kieran yes Mr Malay yes chairman Steiner yes the motion carries thank you and again make sure everybody will read those resolutions thank you again for staying so late as well we appreciate it okay we are going to continue our meeting because we still have some business to do uh resolutions so the first resolution for memorialization we have is 10 walren Avenue that's block 2608 Lot 29 zb- 24-22 32 Peter and Christen twohill the eligible voting members are chairman lyit Mr Yuko Mr Nelson Mr Malay Miss to miss chfo and Mr Chuli can I have a motion so move or second whichever yeah all right I'll take Mr Nelson as the motion and the second will be Mr you go okay chairman loid I mean Vice chairman loid sorry it's okay get me m Mr Yuko yes Mr Nelson yes Mr Malay yes Miss Cho yes Mr Chuli yes the motion carries the next one we have is two Woodmere Drive block 2103 lot 18 Z B-24 d225 n Thomas and Gretchen oan the eligible voting members are Vice chairman lits Mr Yugo Mr Nelson Mr Malle Miss to miss chfo Mr Chuli can I ask a quick question sure thank wasn't there a memo about some clarification between construction being done and not being done on this prop was this the property for this one yeah did I misread that is that going to be a problem or no I don't want to make it more of a problem than it needs to be but we can hold it for no no no no no I'm I'm I'm comfortable with I just wanted to make sure I understood that's all you'd have to tell them because I was I I was off that game well didn't I just see I don't have my phone did something just come out from Andrew ball about um there was a clarification for the for the um something yeah did he just update the resolution was it I don't recall maybe maybe I maybe I just misread it I don't know was yes there was an update on that resolution but we're voting on the revised resolution that's fine y okay good I want to go more okay it was for 174 Springfield yeah that was oh but it was updated then I have the wrong one then I'm sorry yeah I don't I don't think it's for two okay I'm sorry okay okay can I have a motion so moved and a second second okay Vice chairman lyit yes Mr Yuko yes Mr Nelson yes Mr Malay yes Miss Cho yes Mr Chuli yes the motion carries the next one we have is 174 Springfield Avenue so we're okay with this one right it was just he updated it okay that's what I thought that's block 3401 lot 52 zb- 24 - 2257 Ryan Horvath and Katie Prince the eligible voting members are Vice chairman lyit Mr Yugo Mr Nelson Miss to and Mr chanul can we have a motion okay and a second second okay Vice chairman lits yes Mr Yuko yes Mr Nelson yes uh Mr Chuli yes we have a res a request from the uh bergam Meers to uh extend their um the resolution for another year uh they're requesting a one-year extension of the approval in order to properly prepare for construction this would then uh get them to the two years that we've been granting on a regular basis so uh we have a resolution prepared by our attorney to do this and would look for a motion on it motion to approve okay second second okay chairman Steiner yes Vice chairman lit yes Mr Yuko yes Mr Nelson yes Miss Z yes Mr Kieran yes Mr Malay yes the motion carries and we have from November the 4th okay all eight pages of them I know they're getting a little long there she's getting longer and longer I'm sorry more and more days seriously okay um you need a motion yes but we are going to exclude the members who were uh excu excused that day which were Vice chairman lits Mr feskin and Miss Cho can we have a motion so moved and a second second second all those in favor I any opposed okay the motion carries okay we need a motion to go into executive session you guys are thank you very much we are not going to handle the uh the uh rfqs tonight so okay very good no you know if anybody's asking you about it tomorrow the answer is we didn't touch it thank you very much um have a great holiday thank you guys enjoy your bird okay um should what we're going to have to improve that okay what when you move in yes we have to have we need a motion not only that but you need a formal resolution that you should be signing so we got we have not we've not done that in the past all right and why are we going to move into executive session for policy and procedures okay um discussion of policy and procedures as listed on our agenda okay so whereas Section 8 of the open public meetings act chapter 231 PL 1975 njsa 10 colum 4-12 permits the exclusion of the public from a meeting in certain circumstances and whereas the public bodies of the opinion that such circumstances presently exist and now therefore be it resolved by the zoning Board of adjustment of the city of summit the public shall be excluded from the discussion of policies and procedures um and the U minutes of this executive session will be disclosed uh when specific subject matter is resolved do we have a motion I'll make a motion to move to exe executive session is that need to be said good second all in favor all right anyone opposed Jo does our TV Guide noted shut downon yeah hopefully he's done that I turn it on