##VIDEO ID:fb_pnJi_85I## e e okay uh welcome to the November 20th select board meeting tonight we're GNA we have a lot on our agenda and um we're going to try to we are going to get through the majority of it I am removing line number eight discussion of Clark School memorandum so if anybody's here for line number eight we are taking that off the agenda for tonight so being recorded we're being recorded and we're being recorded um we have a special guest with us tonight Mr Connor Maloney um Mr Maloney what would you like to tell us something about yourself uh I'm in third grade and I like pineapple okay um Mr Mone is our special guest to lead us in the pledge and what we try to do is we try to have some of our youth come in and lead us to The Pledge so if anybody has any um youth at home or next door and wants to come over please send them down thank you Mr Money I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all thank you Mr [Applause] Malone okay um Okay so what we're going to do we're what we're going to do tonight is we're going to start with public comment but we're only going to do public comment um that has uh that is not part of um our discussion around Pine Street we're going to do public comment with Pin Street during that article just so we can consolidate it and make it a little bit more concise okay so if anybody here is for public comment that has nothing to do with Pine Street or the VFW please come on up to the mic you have you'll have three minutes to chat please state your name and your address good evening my name is Jackson Schultz I live at 23 hamton Street and I am the chair of the harbor and Waterfront advisory committee and tonight uh the liaison for the harbor Waterfront advisory committee M Leonard will be putting forward three new candidates for the committee I greatly appreciate the vote the select board took at your last meeting to table these appointments until such time as our leaon and the harbor wise heis chair myself could meet to discuss the appointments we did meet and at that meeting which lasted about 8 minutes uh I said that I wanted the name of Tom poia and Al Williams a commercial fisherman to be two of the three candidates presented to the select board Miss Leonard rejected my suggestions and instead will be putting forward her candidates regardless of my objections Miss Leonard said that she wanted a commercial fisherman on the H hwac board uh which has been past practice mikali was one one of Miss Leonard's picks uh was a member of her many years as was Bob debias who recently moved dat Swampscott now miss Leonard wants to add not one but two commercial fishermen to the committee that seems a little lopsided to have two commercial fishermen on a committee that represents the interests of only six or eight commercial fishermen as well as a diverse population of 15,000 residents Miss Leonard and Miss Fletcher Miss Fletcher have often said that there are too many yach club members on the Harbor Advisory Board yet John angles one of M Leonard's picks is a member of the syc I recruited out Williams to submit an application to be on the H the hwac not only because of he's a commercial fisherman but because the town Pier is named after his relative who died during World War II how fitting that would be to have him on the committee Tom poera and I met the end of last summer and he has shown more enthusiasm to be a member of the harbor advisory than any other applicant Tom has spent multiple sent multiple emails and had meetings with Town officials and clearly qualified to be appointed to this position as it stands now Mrs Leonard intends to put three names forward for consideration by the select board despite my objections I am requesting that the select board Grant the appointment of Miss Leonard's choice of Amy Langer as well as Harbor advisory chair's Choice myself Tom poera and Al Williams to the open seats on the committee thank you very much thank you Mr Schultz do we have anyone else fores somebody online hand up okay we'll get them second we'll get the person online MK MK if you could state your name and your address hi Mar what was that thank you Mike hey how are you guys uh I want to thank you all for your time and I'll be brief um I just wanted to um bring it to the board's attention that you know I just think I as a I'm a youth basketball coach for girls basketball I've been for the last few years I'm doing it again this year and I just find it really frustrating that we have 8:00 practice times for the Youth Basketball when we have a brand new gym that's not being used because I'm told to takes six to n months to learn how to use the electronics I don't really understand how having basketball practices or other sporting practices in the gym would take more than turning the lights on or off so I mean if we really developed a school that's that difficult to learn um I think we probably made some bad decisions along the way by everything I've heard is great but I just think it's frustrating that you know we have a new gym for the taxpayers and lots of youth kids are playing basketball to the we hours of the night and um you know trying to coach Middle School girls at 8:00 on a Friday night is uh is is not the most optimal time when you're trying to coach girls and especially when they have 8:00 games on Saturday often times so I just think we really need to relook at that and I wish we could uh you know open up the gym the new gym that the town built and let more people see it and use it and you know let youth basketball and other sports uh get to use the space but uh I hope you have a great meeting and I thank you all for your time but I just find that extremely frustrating as we start any new basketball Fe that we have unused gyms in our town and we're making people stay all day all right thanks thank you Mike okay Katy Arrington 40 Roy Street prior to becoming select board chair on May 29th Mary Ellen you regular regly expressed concern about the lack of transparency by the select board and publicly criticize your colleagues yet as chair you have been even less transparent and I I respectfully ask that you stop this immediately since June 1st the select board has held virtually no public discussions about the Hawthorne site virtually no public discussions about the Hadley hotel until your last last your vote vot last week virtually no public discussion about the pin Street veterans affordable housing and BFW until tonight yet since June 1st the select board has met in non-public executive sess executive sessions 18 times in 14 of the 18 non-public executive sessions the executive session agenda hosted by the chair references a discussion of multiple Parcels of land not once identifying what specific Parcels of land were to be discussed behind closed doors moreover since June 1st the select board has not released minutes for any of the non-public executive sessions under the Massachusetts open meeting law for the select board to discuss property in a non-public executive session the chair must first determine that discussion in Open Session may have a detrimental effect on the negotiating POS position of the Town it is not credible to believe that the chair in good faith could make this determination in all 14 non-public executive sessions relating to every property the select board discussed since June 1st tonight the select board will be discussing and possibly voting on a binding agreement to lease the prim Street property and land on which the VFW currently sits for the construction of at least 42 affordable housing units with a preference for veterans on October 9th Mariel and Fletcher met with representatives of the VFW and informed them that the select board had decided that the VFW would remain where it is today and that the affordable housing units would be built solely on the Pine Street property purchased by the town in 2023 this was done in non-public executive executive session tonight however it appears this is no longer the case and the chair intends for the select board to vote on a plan that removes the VFW and builds the afford housing where the VFW currently resides you decided to change this important Project without any public input without discussion with those most impacted there's no excuse for this violation of trust last week I filed with the Town Clerk and chair Fletcher an open meeting law violation complaint against the select board and its chair demanding that this secrecy stop and the chair and the board be held accountable Mary Ellen I ask you to practice what you preach and choose transparency and stop the secrecy I ask that you postpone action on the pine streetel if you won't stop then I hope your select board colleagues will use their voices and their votes to make you stop thank you thank you very much is there anyone [Applause] else Frank Smith Archer Street good evening I wanted to address the select board tonight to voice my concerns stemming from the recent conversations around town concerning speculation of what may or may not have occurred in one or more closed door meetings resulting in the potential reversal of a decision to preserve the VFW Post in its present capacity a promise that was made to the veterans and documented in past meeting minutes I am quite concerned about the seemingly excessive amount of closed door executive sessions that have occurred this year and moreover that these style of meetings deny the very people for whom the board is tasked to represent the transparency of process that is intended to serve as the primary function of the board and its elected officials in all matters impacting the citizens of Swampscott to that point if it is determined at any any point in time that this select board has knowingly violated the terms of the open meeting law I am calling for the immediate resignation of Select board member Mary Ellen Fletcher from their present chairperson position of which would be reassigned following a public vote among the remaining select board members that is all thank you Mr [Applause] Smith okay do we have any more individuals like to get up oh Mary the chill just want to make sure this is not about Pine Street we're going to talk about if anybody has public comment for Pine Street we're gonna have a Pine Street comment too Mary I'm Mary Dillo from uh Precinct 4 town meeting member also uh I am a member of the disclosure full disclosure of a member of the VFW auxiliary 1240 um just so people know where coming from um I have feeling I have comments about Pine Street but I have more of a comment about um to the select board I think and to uh people who are present here um tonight um I've been a member of town meeting since 1999 when I first moved here in 95 so um I've tried to um my best during that period of time to keep a breast of town Affairs sometimes I've been better at it sometimes I haven't um as others have gone done long before I moved here and will hopefully continue to do going forward I have cast my vote in town elections a town meeting and as a member of elected and orted appointed Town committees about issues that directly affected the town as a whole individual groups and various neighborhoods like the select board members those of you sitting here tonight and others are here tonight um we're volunteers we're all volunteers and this government that we have in town functions on volunteers and the very essence of what we do and how we do the work and and how we go forward is going to be how do we work together so I'm kind of going off script a little bit here tonight but um I really you know I'm kind of a polyan sometimes in this you know sometimes I can be on one issue sometimes I can be on another but I try to use my head head and my heart to make decisions and I've made some really hard ones and I've made some easy ones at Town Meeting of hard ones and I was a select I was a school Committee Member hardest job I had to do was vote to close michon school and at that point when that closed I said to that part of town that I would always have this side of town in my thoughts we also had I also worked for the High School to get the high school here this side of town took a hit and a hit and a hit and they continue to get hit by overdevelopment by people not paying attention and I stand here tonight I don't know what the outcome of this is going to be or what the answer is to this but it is there's got to be some coming to to to of Minds here about how do you get different groups dis groups focused and to try to get the veterans needs met the neighborhood needs needs met the idea that when I drive by on Essex Street and I now see this huge structure on Essex Street Mary it's over three minutes okay okay but think about it folks we have not had a planner for two years we've not done planning and what worries me about all these decisions is that we need to be thinking our way through this not thank emoting our way through thank you Mary okay do we have anyone else who would like to speak see somebody standing up and leaving okay so what we're going to do now is um we are going to go to um the discussion Madam Madam chair would would we be able to take the uh the Land Development land disposition agreement for 10 new ocean and 12 to 24 Pine Street out of order and move agenda item number nine up to the front we do have about three dozen veterans we are we are doing that right now yeah that's what I perfect so we are we are going to take number nine um and we're going to move that up to the beginning so what we're going to do first is we're going to walk through the project with marsy gaska our community development director thank you it's my pleasure to provide to you um a timeline of perhaps how we are we arrived at at at today's date and maybe just go back um in time and to really talk about um the um the project trajectory and and how the the project has started as you know affordable housing and especially um senior and Veteran housing is something that uh a lot of communities lack including swamp Scotch so in the sprink of 2023 town meeting um took a vote to acquire um land at 1224 Pine Street um there were two articles um during um that town meeting it was Article 10 and article 11 and both of them looked at um acquiring land and also um disposing of land to create um affordable veteran housing um the article passed had a favorable vote from the uh town meeting and after that point um Town issued an RFP to create uh veterans affordable housing and a veteran Center that will be located at 10 new ocean Street and um 12 to 24 Pine Street so basically combining the two proces together on the map you see uh what's in front of you you see the uh the structure at 1224 Pin Street that was that has since been demolished and you see the um veterans uh post um on the structure um so both of those Parcels were part of the articles that um created um that um town meeting um voted to dispose and in order to create affordable housing in the fall of 2023 um Town received or or select what I should say prior to that held uh meetings and discussed the need to issue an RFP so in the um fall of or actually um in the earlier fall I should say or maybe like um in July I want to say the town issued an RFP um that um was seeking proposals from developers to create affordable veterans affordable housing and to uh create a um a new or to incorp op a VFW post as part of that uh new development uh we received one proposal in September in the fall of 2023 The Proposal was from Benet Bri um a lot of us might be familiar with them as they have developed uh the michon project they have a long history of uh being an amazing advocate for creating affordable housing um and the uh select one moved forward and awarded the bid to neth to um develop affordable veterans housing at 10 new ocean Street 1224 Pine Street The Proposal um or the bid that was received from Bernay Brit included um uh a new um included a u a component of the development that would incorporate the VFW as part of that project uh the proposal included about, 1500 square fet for a um for a veteran space it also included some Flex space as well as two offices um that would be uh located on the first floor of the structure of this new structure that was going to be developed on Pine Street um in the spring of 2024 uh Town held a meeting at the senior center with the v v uh VFW uh leadership as well as residents of pine streets and swamp Scot residents uh to hear the presentation about demolition uh plans that the town has had for the structure adjacent to the VFW and also to talk about the proposal as well as to share uh the uh the bid or the proposal for the Redevelopment of the site um talk about the concept and talk about um potential the project timeline um for this this R development uh since that time in the early summer of this year we have had an opportunity to meet with the VFW uh leadership um to really further discuss the the plans and talk about um their expectation and the needs for the site it was determined that the space or the square footage that was proposed as part of the Benet birth um development was not sufficient it was uh it was too small so we have gone back and forth have had several discussions um to try to find out what is the ideal space that would be needed as a replacement to the existing um um to the existing space that uh that the VFW as well as the other branches of um veterans you um have at the VFW Post right now um a developer was great as the uh VFW leadership asked to see if we can look at options in regards to being able to um you know relocate the building perhaps maybe build one building on on the smaller parcel how can we coexist together uh we looked at a variety of different options we also taught some uh parcel potential Parcels for relocation of the VFW to um different U Town own spaces and then also spaces that were not owned by the town um um ultimately the VFW uh presented a proposal to us from a architect or a member that um has uh proposed that uh you know we could still accommodate uh the 42 units of housing adjacent to the parcel we shared that Proposal with uh the development team and they came back to us and said yes you know we could accommodate 42 units of housing but unfortunately we are not able to have structured parking underneath the the building and parking would be an issue in the neighborhood um a lot of us I'm not sure if there are any number neighbors of um of the project when the planning board was going through the previous proposal on the project um there was a plan for 22 units of Housing and there were a lot of concerns about parking neighborhood characters and other issues um so um we still have gone back and forth looked at the the various options um basically there were three options that were available to us number one is to um have the vwb part of the project but unfortunately that was deemed not enough space in there the second option would be to um um you know remain keep the building in place and kind of build around it but unfortunately that was a option that was not feasible by the developer because of construction cost and other issues and obviously the third option would be to relocate VFW to another preferably Town owned parcel uh where we could make improvements or try to um build out a space that would meet the the current needs of the uh the DV OFW and the um the various um uh uh branches of government that are that are used in the space right now uh so this is sort of how how we arrived where we are today um I know that selectwood has had a couple meetings in in the past and what's in front of you today is a Land Development agreement that talks about um building um up to 42 units of affordable um veterans rental housing um but that would call for relocation of the VFW to another location um I'm happy to um U just maybe share with you yeah maybe this is question this is um what's on the map right now is a concept drawing and again I just want to preference that that this is a concept this kind of shows the context of the of the uh structure what potentially could look like so the development would be a three-story structure with some parking uh adjacent to it uh one thing that I wanted to say is that the Land Development agreement also talks about the fact that the developer will have to go through permanent we would have to go they would have to go through S review they'll be working with uh with the town with with the planning board with the zoning board of appeals in regards to the actual location of the building how that's going to be structured how it's going to what the materials will be used for um for the build building envelope for landscaping and and other um and other features of the new proposal of the building you have a question M gaska can we could we go back to the previous slide so it says 2024 fall select board holds meetings to discuss the impacts of the project to the neighborhood and direct the butters three options were discussed when what do you have the dates of those meetings that that we that were held um we've had meetings with um with the leadership of the um of the uh VF W so I should probably rephase that not the select board there were two select board members that have had meetings with uh with the VFW leadership and I can go back I don't have the dates with me right now but I'm happy to were those were did were those meetings were those meetings in October October 9th um I'm sorry I don't have to I can go back and and try to get the DAT M Fletcher when were the when did those meetings happen I think you were at the meeting well I was I was certainly at I certainly I certainly you and I were at a meeting together I was certainly at one of the meetings but these meetings weren't public meetings so I just want to make sure that we're not giving the impression that we had that these were public discussions these were is that what that says there these were closed door discussions it says the select board holds meetings these were Pro I'm sorry these were project meetings so these were project meetings with uh the leadership of the VFW and okay thank you um and another question I'm just following up from Miss arrington's um public comment that there was an open meeting law complaint filed against the town or and against you and that wasn't shared with our board against the select board yes that's it was filed on I don't know Friday or Monday I didn't see it until Monday so that's that's coming out to everybody it was just sent I just sent it to KP law okay thank you so I have one question um Marcy did you say that that Benet BR determined that building the 42 units on the one site was I don't want to mischaracterize what you said was feasible they they said it was feasible yes so they could fit 42 units of housing um the density obviously would be greater the height would be greater so instead of having a a spread out three story building now you're looking at a five potentially six-story Bill structure when you look at maybe perhaps um the flooding issue flood zones in terms of trying to raise the building to um the flood elevation they need to have utilities on the on the roof site so they said that yes we could build a building on the single SP spot at 1224 Pine Street but unfortunately they will not be able to meet the parking requirements and um obviously the density and the and the structure would be much greater okay that that's not what I understood um through this process um so um I'm glad you clarified that because I thought you said they they said it could be built and then I thought you said later that they said it couldn't be built so it could be built and my understanding through all of this is that the only distinction was one story between three stories and four stories so I've never heard five or six stories before um and I know we had discussions about parking um but those discussions were more in line of how would we make it work how many spots really would be needed what would be needed on the street versus off street that type of thing so I just want to make sure that we're kind of characterizing this if something's changed I'm open to understanding that but this is the first time I ever heard that potentially it couldn't be built which I'm glad we clarified that wasn't really what was intended and that exactly what the differential would be doing it on one site versus two sites so just wanted to make sure I understood that absolutely so there were a couple issues right in terms of building the structure of the building envelope yes it is it would be feasible but it would not again parking would be would be something that would not be able to be achieved on the site and um then you know obviously the massing of the building was something that potentially could be a um detriment to the neighborhood or concern of the neighborhood I have a question so in the other the other issue is they said that they could build a four-story building but what was it wasn't disclosed that it would also have to be elevated because we're in a flood zone and all mechanics would have to go on top of that that's correct correct which would also be the case if it's on two sites still a flood zone right that's correct you still have to have the mechanic on the roof that's correct okay so I just want to make sure we're all being clear here so we're really talking about but the story difference on two sites the massing would be far less than the massing on one site so that's that's another a very very important issue that the size of the building would be smaller and I would also say that you know do we go back to Tom meeting because the Tom meeting vote was to utilize 10 um new ocean Street and 12 uh 24 Pine Street that was that was the vote of Tom eating okay David yeah Miss gaska um just this I know there had been a market rate project that had been previously approved by the planning board and I believe the size of that structure that was previously approved which did have different you know a variety of uh of unit sizes was approximately 34 35,000 feet uh the proposed development by Bene brith was approximately the same the same size correct just a different unit mix the units were going to be a little a little smaller maybe 600 to 650 square feet is that is that accurate um I don't have the the height in front of me I'm not sure if Angela if you recall um in regards to the the previous um development it was 37 Feet to the roof no no no I'm talking about the square footage of the of the actual of the actual building so while there were fewer units the the size of the actual structure that was going to be constructed solely on 12 to 24 Pine Street I believe was was of a similar size um well we don't know what the I'm I'm sorry if I I don't want to speak um we don't know what the what this this any new proposal would be I mean they're saying 42 units on the same site but I have no idea what the size of the building is I believe they've I believe they've they've provided a square footage yeah okay um I haven't well I clearly haven't been privy any of that so I don't I don't know um the gross floor area of what was approved by the zoning board is 35589 square feet 21 units um it was three stories but the the bottom level was parking so was two stories of Housing and underground parking I mean under the under the building Park under the building parking which automatically elevated the building all the units um facilities being on top and that required multiple U dimensional special permits from the zoning board of appeals as well as a variant okay Katie yeah I just want to be clear that what Mr buo is talking about is the development that was approved prior August 2020 in August of 2022 and that's not what B proposed B did not propose parking on the ground floor and the building being built on top of that we inquired as to why when the veterans asked to stay in place because we thought that would solve the parking problem it is because that for that developer it is cost prohibitive for them to do that they said it would not work within their funding structure to build base level parking and then to build on top we did inquire about that I'm I do have I have one question because I have um had a few people make comments that this is not veterans housing and that this is senior housing and my understanding since day one is that this is Veterans housing this is a project that Mr grishman was very passionate about and to be honest at the beginning I was very apprehensive and um but I changed my mind after listening to what a number of Select board members say but now I'm hearing that it is not veterans housing so is this veterans housing it is Veterans housing 100% veterans housing excuse me we're going to let the we're goingon to let the public speak right after we're done okay go ahead this is the the Ben bre has committed to um build affordable um housing for uh 55 plus with a local preference of veterans with a second preference of swamp Scotch veterans um to be included and we have Kim Martin Epstein here tonight from the affordable housing trust and Kim can you please just reiterate what Mars's telling because it was very concerning to me to hear that that PE that people from the veterans organization actually the commander told me that it was not going to be veterans that there's a very serious concern here which I would be concerned with too because the only reason I got on board with this am I am I on okay you're on I have no reason to believe that this is in federan housing I was in the very very earliest of conversations before this in my own capacity as a town of swamp Scott person who happens to do affordable housing for a living I was in very early dis design discussions I I happen to know the people at Ben brith really well asked them feasibility questions this has always been housing that was intended to have a veteran's preference the thing that you probably can get muddled I think when you talk about housing that's for um pref preferential housing is that when an when a developer sets out to maximize the number of units to provide the most amount of housing that's feasible on a site they need to fill up those units so they have to look at the population of people who need affordable housing which I think we can all agree is great and then when you decide to do Supportive Services and offer them to certain groups like veterans or people over the age of 60 or whatever it is you decide are you're going to provide services for you also have to make sure that you can fill the units with people who are fit the affordability profile and fit the need for the services we were we were we came to understand after conversations that involved veterans and and and the and town people planning and economic development and everybody who wanted a weigh in that we would propose and be proponents of a project that would have a Veterans Preference that would be designed to provide veterans Supportive Services and because the units are going to be designed as small units they will necessarily obviously not be family units um the idea was that there would also be a preference for people who are over I guess 55 but these are going to be small units that naturally in the marketing process they're going to be more available to people who are not looking for multi-bedroom apartments and they're going to have Supportive Services on site which are going to be directly provided to people for whom these units are marketed there's never been any discussion that it was to to be anything other than this you cannot deny somebody a unit if they fit the affordability if you have no other veterans who apply so the the way that the marketing will work uh will be that the veterans applications will come in and the marketing and Lottery folks will look at it and pull pull out all the people who can qualify under the affordability restrictions who are veterans and they'll get reference and if there are units after that then people who are interested in those units who fit the afford the affordability will never the affordability units will never change but the next pass will be people who are not veterans if there aren't enough veterans to fill the units that are marketed but again never was this not a Veterans Preference with onsite veteran Supportive Services provided through the development of this and funded by the developer you know who will obtain a lot of State support to provide the housing and the services okay um does anybody have any questions as to because we also have our lawyer on the phone um does anybody have any questions as to the ground lease red lines that we had received on Monday or on the LDA do we have any questions on that that should be addressed yes had his hand up Dian I don't know wants to speak you should be able M and your camera are enabled uh good evening folks um Kurt James been assistant as the attorney uh working with the select board to negotiate the terms of this land disposition agreement and ground lease I just just to that point about veterans preferences I um feel that it's pretty critical for everybody who's listening to understand exactly what the languages um Marilyn I thought I would just read what's in the LDA I think that will help um supplement what Kim just mentioned thank you so what it says now is uh that it's going to be available uh is 42 one-bedroom units of multif family senior rental housing the residence of each unit being at least 55 or older as follows if available based on funding resources up to 23 units will be reserved for extremely low-income households who have an annual income at or below 30% of your need income and the remaining units will be reserved for low-income household to have an annual income of at least 60% of are Income there should be a preference for town of swamp Scott residence to the extent permitted by applicable law to the extent permitted by applicable law the preference category should be prioritized in the following manner first veterans second town of swamp Scott residents so as Kim indicated first and foremost it's going to be an affordable housing project secondly it's going to be limited to folks or older and these are all one bedroom units as you indicated so there going to be appropriately sized for that uh population and to the extent that there are eligible veterans who qualify meeting both those requirements they will have first priority for any available units okay so we don't have any questions on our well I I'll just say that I frankly haven't even reviewed these last comments um because I feel as though you know somewhat appropo some of the comments have been made here tonight that we've been trying to negotiate this LDA going back and forth on these different options that Mary laid out haven't had the benefit of the Public's input to to understand the ramifications of the different options we've kind of been we've had meetings some of us have had meetings with the Vets to understand where they sit and stand on this as I understand it as marsy laid it out the Vets came up with a creative idea that all the same units could exist on one site and after that extensive process we had a discussion in executive session and determined that wasn't the best option so to me I I can't even really look at this LDA in detail without having heard from people about the ramifications of one site versus using one parcel versus two Parcels moving the VFW Post or having a next door you know adding one floor you know versus you know so it just it just feels like we we kind of have things we're trying to rush through to like sign this document I actually all I'm asking is if you've I'm not trying to rush through signing the document I'm asking while we have our lawyer here so that I don't have to go back into executive session is there anything that you would like to talk about in this document right now and any questions that you have right now because he's right here we're right here in public so do you do you have any questions on here and and let's not forget you know in executive session we did have to discuss things as far as could it fit on one piece of land and at that time we didn't have any open meetings at that time either because we had to make decisions in executive session because the POS because of a possibility that it could have a conflict or hurt our final decisions I think in hindsight there's some ambiguity from my perspective about whether or not we could have should have had discussions about these different options in a public session that's you know water under the bridge or a violation depending on how you want to look at it and I'm not I'm not trying to you know I appreciate that I'm trying to play to the crowd I'm just saying like on on hindsight I think maybe we did the best we could but all I'm saying right now is that it's hard to really examine the nitty-gritty of this without getting the larger context from people about their perspective on the different options so I have a suggestion um I'm really kind of tired of hearing us talk and on that topic that we just raised I want to stop I want I want to go through the first piece about it being veterans housing or affordable housing or senior housing and I want to hear from people that are here if they have questions on just that first piece before we get into the rest of it and then I want to hear because that's what we're here for we're here I've heard us talk about this for six months I want to hear from the many people that are clearly here for this but I want to hear first of all on that first topic is there still confusion out there on whether or not it's veterans or lowincome or affordable housing or senior preference hold on hold on a second hold on a second so I I would propose that we open it up to people that have questions for just that one piece right now and try to get that piece worked out and then we can move on to the next you know piece of of of this whole thing so if you have a question about that topic please come up to the mind there's anything lingering out there where people think it's not for veterans first preference I want to hear those thoughts so that we can we have the lawyer here we have us here we can at least address those concerns good idea all right Charlie Charlie P my name is Charlie Patos Atlantic have swamp Scot um it's very interesting uh we have a veteran he's he's returned from Afghanistan a veteran of a foreign war but he's not 55 years old but he needs housing assistance this housing would not allow him a roof over his head so it's veterans housing but the stipulations that you've placed now restrict the very people that we care about the most actual veterans returning from war that need our help that's my question okay that's a good question so can I don't know if Kurt can speak to that k Kim Kim Danielle Kim go ahead this housing like all the other housing that we're building is basically achieving a teeny little drop of success to in an enormous problem that isn't yawning unending need and I don't think by creating housing for veteran that is that that involve single you know one roomed single bedroom um and it's and it's got a lot of density so we can get a lot of units suggests that other housing for people who are not 55 or over who are veterans who are younger than 55 is not needed but the project that we approved on this site and one of the reasons I think we talked about this early on on this site was because we could achieve density and create a number of units this these projects don't work if you don't build enough units this we've talked about this in other contexts over and over and over again respectfully to everyone who wants three-bedroom units or big units for other people to to live in they they're not going to fit on this site ever because the numbers will never work so you always are making a decision do I do something or do I do nothing because something can be done and nothing will just leave us talking about this over and over and over again so town meeting and the affordable housing trust and everyone else after there has decided that this is the project we're going to work on now does it mean we won't do more of course Nots But to answer the question it would not so to Charlie's question if it's a veteran who's under 55 they would not get first preference here is that is that fair they wouldn't even be allowed to live there right okay so just to answer Charlie's question I'm sorry okay Mar I know if you see Kurt hello my excuse me one second Mr Kurt yeah sorry I just wanted to to kind of amplify what what Ken is saying so in order to allow for two or three bedroom apartments you know for family siiz units um it would reduce the number of units and not make it feasible if this were just for uh veterans with no age limitation again it would not be financeable it would not be approved by the state with their public funding sources and so again just would not be a financially feasible project so I'm hoping that folks will focus on the actual benefits for this select group with the understanding as Kim says that there'll be another project down the road that will serve the needs of other veterans all right thank thanks Kurt thank you Kurt that's that yes just your name and your address uh David Emon uh 10 new ocean street I'm the quar master of the VFW Post 124 we need your we need your address my address 108 felsmere Street Lynn Lynn f what you say what was that Bell pdon Bells Bell Street bsme f e l LS m e r e thank you up in the great F State uh well any anyways uh I don't mention names but I met with a select board member two days ago and I was assured that all 42 units 41 42 units whatever it is would be for veterans only whether they lived in swampit Lynn Salem pey Framingham around the western part of the state it should be strictly the veterans that's all I'm saying okay and that's what we're saying that's we we haven't clarify that we haven't said anything different than that as we we can reiterate what the preference will be the preference will be affordable so the income restriction is excuse me this is an affordable housing project in order to build it we have to provide restri income restricted that's the project that's always been the project so the applications will first screen for affordability if somebody has limited income they will fit into the income tiers that are being you know that it's designed for veterans first preference veterans who are of lower income will have first preference if all 42 units can be filled with veterans who are of lower income then then we're done that's it if there are not enough applications for veterans who qualify on the income level then the next tier of preference will be a achieved which is town of swamp Scott and after that but but veterans from another town will still I mean it's first it's the first preference level as we said is Veterans I don't think we said anything different than that I know it's hard to kind of figure out how this works in real life but when the management company starts to receive the applications they have to you know start with the tier each tier and the first tier is the affordability and then the next tier is affordability and Veterans and the next tier is affordability veterans swans Scot or you know how however they however the applications come in would it would it be fair to say like we can all collectively you know wherever this gets built however it gets built if we all collectively work on making sure that every vet that qualifies on the income scale applies and this will be a veterans project I mean we control that effectively we talking about any veteran in the state right I mean any veteran in the state so I I right I think I think you know we're getting to the point where it's the developer and and their expertise in affirmative fairh housing marketing that would really need to take over I'm not speaking for the developer I'm trying to be educational about how this will work and I will assure everybody at least to the extent I've been involved that it has never not been a Veterans Preference project end of discussion I cannot go further just because it's not my area of expertise exactly how these lotteries will play out yeah and I think we discussed that very early on and we talked about creating a sort of task force that would identify Veterans as local veterans that would we would be able to help through the application process so that when this gets marketed we would be able to already have designated a large group if not 42 folks or however many units get get built to say you know these folks we already know based on the marketing that's been put out we already know that they meet the criteria one they meet the criteria two and so you know we are trying to reach out to and I know we've reached out to the veterans we've talked to Mike Sweeney we've talked to folks to try to be able to inform as many veterans as we can so that we can understand how many units could be filled in this region hi Susan Bishop four First Street Salem Mass but um did you say First Street for First Street Salem Salem very briefly uh I'm with the VFW Post 1240 I'm the auxiliary president and a business owner in this town for over 12 years come from a long line of veterans so this is dear to me grandfathers great unes have purple hearts Uncle Paris in the thresher submarine four of my six brothers served in the military one in Vietnam and another did four tours in the Middle East you sold us a vision of veterans housing in a new VFW facts revealed it is not veterans housing there is a difference between veteran and affordable housing and we would not have an equally great VFW that we have now you entertain our engineer in the new design which built your apartments and left the current V alone on October 9th one of those 18 executive meetings you stated that you sided with the veterans and you would go with the new design leaving our building alone October 29th you had another meeting without the veterans and changed your mind and told us to go to Rears a VFW Post is a safe place where veterans fellowship with other veterans there's a camaraderie among them and understanding that others in this post may have experienced similar events missions in combat control an air of peace and belonging they cannot get elsewhere the post is priceless to your reach Arts Building respectfully amen [Applause] God bless sir hi I'm uh Steve Peterson I live on lynore Drive Number Nine excuse me Mr Peterson what was your address again number nine Lyn Shore Drive and swamp Scott Lynn Lynn will um I'm a friend to the post an associate member and I was the one who put together some study sketches to for for conversation starters they're not architecture they're not design design but I did some studies to depict how you might fit 40 42 48 units into a box on that lot and the intent was to preserve the capital asset that the post has now they have the parking that they need the building serves their needs they might need an elevator they might need a new roof that's a different that's a different set of needs for the residents whether it's all veterans or 50% or whatever the conversation was if you have a bedroom you have a parking spot that might be a starting point if you can't get there based upon the geom geometry of the of the site then that's a that's a thing then you maybe put some people on the street or park on the street and deal with the neighbors or do what you can to keep things in the sh the shadow of the building the first first floor is a little bit irregular uh you could probably put some parking in there I laid out 40 parking spots but that was with a vision of how big the lot was I did not have and it do not have Dimension drawings of how big that lot is but I kind of you know Googled how big is a parking spot and then I stacked them up and I did 40 20 by 30 one-bedroom units and laid them all out Mr Peterson I just have to ask you are you concerned that this is not veterans housing because that's the topic that we're talking about right now that's that's not the that's that is to be decided that's that's not what I bring to the table okay my my my conversation is you can put 40 20 by 30 units in my on my sketch whether my sketch is accurate or not they might have to go from 600 square F feet to 540 or whatever whatever maybe the 40 parking spots or 48 parking spots Dro to 38 or whatever that's what that's what I also did a couple of studies where um I depicted one two and three bedroom units in that box if you have 42 one bedroom units you've got 42 bathrooms and 42 kit Mr Mr Peterson what we're trying to do is we're trying to focus right now if anybody has any questions about whether or not it's veterans housing and we we had promised a few people to speak so if I could ask you to give us I I'll give it give it back the the point is the user requirements of the club and and the residents maybe it's to benefit keeping them separate so that the needs are metk thank you very much thank you now we're just going to stay focused on Danielle's question is there anybody here ma'am I think you want didn't you want to speak about if it's veterans housing I can speak you don't have to okay but your your name and your address my name is Adrian Javy I live at 97 Ocean Street in Lyn Massachusetts and I work as a bartender and a volunteer at the post 1240 I'm also on the auxiliary and I come from a long line of um veterans and my concern is that the veterans should have a home and if this is the proposed issue that they want to tear it down and give them a home give it to the veterans don't do it for subsidized housing don't do for anybody else because like anybody else in here I don't own a home I can go to subsidize housing but these veterans need it there are people that come into that post they live in rooming houses they have roaches they have mice if they can get into that building let them get in but now what you're saying is you're going to put it for um other non veterans before this person no no that's that's not what we're saying okay so no one no one said that tonight and if if you know people that are in a rooming house what get the list of the people you know they are going to be our priority that's what you're hearing here tonight that well then that that's that's my thing it's like get those veterans into the that apartment if you're going to tear it down unfortunately get those veterans in there but we're going to put you on that committee all right all right thank you I think I do is there anyone else that has an a question or wants to talk about their issue with veterans housing Mr Driscoll thanks your name and address sir Tom Driscoll 28 Crossman EV and swamp Scott this is actually me not knowing anything about fobal housing so I'm going to have to ask you So when you say affordable housing what it's based on the swamp Scot market rate correct or not oh glad you asked um that's why I'm here I always like to ask a good question anytime I have an opportunity to have Define and make sure everybody's using the same terms I would love to take it when we talk about affordable housing we are talking about housing that is Affordable to people at their income level so the concept is that nobody should be paying more than 30% of their income and of course ideally way less but when we start out figuring out how we can build housing for the population that needs it we our goal is to to to provide housing to people so that they don't pay more than 30% of their income whatever that income is the way we determine these tiers of income is we have to use um area median income information and therefore rental like it's like a grid that HUD puts out basically but every year HUD provides information about the area median income and the subsidized rent allowances for those income levels um Swampscott is in a statistical area that includes Boston and Cambridge so it's an interesting large area it includes areas with considerably lower probably gross incomes of residents and higher too so there these numbers are knowable there this is information that HUD publishes every year but when we end up financing this project the rents will start out um whatever the rents are from HUD the year that the project gets financed and it'll be based on um that Year's in statistical information but it'll be the Boston Cambridge Metropolitan statistical area whatever it's called look it up I'm not lying but it's a big area but it it includes you know so it includes Boston Cambridge it includes Marblehead it includes swamp Scot it includes Lynn it includes Salem I think it includes parts of the Southshore too it's it's a big area can you give us an idea of what that would a rough estimate of a oneperson household a two person household what the income level look like this particular this is information that has been recently right so the 60% income level so so somebody at 60% of the area median income right now is listed sorry what is what is what does that mean one oh a oneperson household at 60% of the area median income is earning $ 68,5 120 a two-person household who's earning 60% of the area median income is at 78360 and the 30% income tier which is what we call extremely low income this is people who are Poss you know 30% or lower so you know marginally employed like really vulnerable population a one person household is earning 34,2 or less to be in the 30% category and a two person households is at 39,000 so you know that's based and so that's 60% of whatever right now is the area is considered the area of median income for this area so it's it so it's earning 34,000 or less that's right one person household at the 30% income level is earning $34,000 or less so someone in a rooming house and to be clear Kim we had said before that the way the proposal is written 30 I'm sorry 23 units are reserved for 30% income or less so that 34k or lower that's right and then the 19 orish remaining units are 60 or lower so so that means that the income can go up but if if we filled all units with 30 or lower that is not an issue correct not 30 no no no right so so the Restriction will say 60% or lower and 30% or lower if everyone's lower it's not a violation of the Restriction 30% still lower still lower than 60 one of one of the problems that we have found I will tell you I did a little bit of research on michon because we didn't get as many swamp Scout residents into michon and what was explained to me at the time was one of the problems is we will have people on a possibly bringing in a lower income however they may have uh a very large asset such as their house and one of the concerns that we have is if we have enough time to really start to look and see when this project is going to be finished and when we can get ready right now if we can identify veterans in this area right now and then try to figure out what we can do as far as preparing them with their assets to qualify to get into uh a facility like this that's going to be a big benefit for them so and just to just to piggyback on that you know I've had conversations with our with our vsso Mike Sweeney um he's identified that there are approximately 500 veterans within the town 4 Yeah well yeah yeah it's it's it's approximately 500 400 of the of those 500 veterans 80% are 55 plus so uh he's he's age he means age age yes so yeah 80% or 55 plus and what he's looking to do and you know we we did authorize the select board I believe in April or or may did indicate that we wanted to establish a veterans housing committee specifically for this Pine Street project where we do want to we do need to work with uh work with the veterans and have a select board liais on and really have a project that allows us to go out and market and communicate and ensure that these that that this you know that we're that we're knocking on the doors and we're notifying each and every veteran within the town of swampit uh to get uh to to make them aware of this particular project get them to apply so that we have the most success uh possible Right can I do a followup to because I've just learned I mean I've gotten a little more confused the so is there any way that for example the the owners of this building to isn't their ultimate goal still to get the most money that they can so for example wouldn't they tend to be the veterans who can afford the higher rate what have a preference or not no so the way this I mean they're coming into this project well first of all nobody builds affordable housing to get the most money that they can no what I'm saying is like no no no it's really important to understand this the the the the operating budget for any rental housing is the same whether you're providing rental apartments that are luxury or whether they're for income restricted people so you've got an operating budget you have to meet these projects have to be built they take on debt they oftentimes they take on permanent permanent debt right loans that have to be paid so you've got operating costs you have to pay you have Debt Service you have to pay and you have a market rate building that's taking on the most amount of rents and then you have an affordable housing project that is has consider less income so so the first thing that these projects have to do is satisfy their operating budget and pay their Debt Service the developers who do these projects earn a developer fee at the beginning for doing the project that's what keeps nonprofits who build affordable housing going so they can do the next project but they're not there's very very little cash flow that comes out of these that's available to do anything but pay operating costs pay back debt and occasionally fund what I'm asking though isn't I understand I used to bet I use the bad analogy and make them more money I mean I've been on the Retirement Board for 30 years okay I can look through here to some of my retirees and tell you right now what they make and to I guess what I'm asking is some of these men and women who really can't afford housing and they're going to present themselves whatever under that formula to not be able to afford housing wouldn't won't it be the veterans who can afford it more than the veterans that can't afford no it goes it's the inverse I don't I mean look I I don't know the income profiles of any of everybody here and I certainly don't know who's going to apply at the end of the day all I'm saying is that this project will be restricted for people who have incomes at 60% Ami or lower it'll be based on one one basically it's going to be based on a single bedroom occupancy so one or two people right because so a single person or two people in a single bedroom unit and this will have top tier Veterans Preference we don't know who's going to apply we're talking about hoping that veterans who fill the income profile will apply because then they will fill the units and that will be but we don't know who's going to apply we know only can design this project with the restrictions and the requirements that we said we were going to do we it's not me but that we as a town agreed to do and we're going to do that and then we'll do our best to get people who fit that profile to live there I mean the biggest problem units you know restricted units have is usually more people applying that qualify than there are units it's usually not the other way what you know what I think we're going to do is we oh you're all set yeah I'm not going to ask another question I'll get I'll get more all right good so just I'm just want to I just want to say Focus if if there's anyone here who has a question as to whether or not this is going to be veterans housing please come up to the mic and express your concerns okay so we're all set with any possible issues on Veterans housing no Mr patios no we're okay no you you already go okay so okay okay it just occurred to me that there is enough parking you gave 20 spaces to the pot shop oh yeah take the 20 spaces back from the pot shop and you've got enough packing for the veterans housing and you can make it everybody [Applause] happy Mary so Mar Mary you want to you want to talk about the now we'll go we'll talk about the parking at in terms of how many parking spaces are there um right now there are six parking spaces hold on sorry how many just to clarify Mr pao's comment how many spaces are currently shared six parking spaces are being shared right now not 20 no okay thank you no s thank you Kurt James has Kurt James is back it's not Kurt James uh go ahead $2000 yeah sorry so to answer his question you are taking back those parking spaces you're going to be terminating the license that the pot shop has to use those spaces that's right so those will be available for the project great okay that may be news to them now okay now that we just let them know why we don't know we should all right so and actually just one thing that I wanted to point out that currently the um cannabis um operator pays the town $2,000 in for the use of those parking spaces and that $2,000 is being paid to the veterans on a monthly basis right now okay yes that's income for the for the veterans for the VFW so the town is the town is effectively taking away $24,000 a year in income from from the veterans just to be clear just to be clear if the town also has the veterans in uh recharts the capital expenses for recharts would be uh eliminated too so just to be clear and um okay so there's no question so no one on the board has any questions on here and I do want to make sure that people have other comments that we take some time you know that that is not focused on just whether or not it's for veterans so we all in agreement this is Veterans housing I just want to make sure that if people no well not all in agreement but okay I I think we've done our best to to try to explain that um but if there's if we have other comments if you well hold on um I was wondering if maybe um kurk could just explain the timeline the Milestone timeline that was attached to the Umba so that I think the veterans could understand and the folks who are sitting here sort of like if this were to happen how the timeline would sort of span out as we understand it today Kurt yeah no I I think that's a good idea um what I wanted to say up front though because it came up in some of the earlier comments what we have now is a conceptual design for this project there is going to be extensive review not just by the select court but by the CBA and other pering authority about the actual design of what they want to do and there will be plenty of opportunities for public input um and reflection on that so I I just want to you know you'll see that as I go through this timeline but I did want to kind of emphasize that up front just because I know some folks are Express concerns about maybe not being included in all these conversations um so what we're hoping to do we don't have a final agreement with Ben Bri yet there maybe a couple three issues which we have left um which we are still negotiating so that process is still ongoing um but what we do have pretty good um agreement on is is this timeline so if we let's just say that for the sake of discussion um again we're not agreeing to this but let's just say we get both of the documents the land disposition agreement signed and the ground lease the form of the ground lease approved by December 1st so that would be the effective date if Ben nebit then has 90 days to to do due dilit so that will include looking at the title looking at the environmental report the survey Etc assuming there are no problems there they will uh uh continue on with their um design process um as part of the design and permitting approval process the town needs to divide U the existing parcel so that the um pot shop is is going to be on one parcel and the housing on another par um that will take place within the next 120 days after December 1st uh the the developer will then have uh until so that basically takes us to April of 2025 the the developer then has another 30 days to submit schematic design plans to the town so that will basically lay out uh what the apartments will look like how many floors there are where it's going to be located on the site Etc and that will start the actual approval process for the design part of the project uh at the same time the developer will apply for a 40b comprehensive permit and I think folks are pretty familiar based on what shown in other project that that is a fairly long and intensive process um the uh next stage will be um once the select board has vetted uh the design subm Tak into consideration public comment and the zba has approved the design zba will issue a comprehensive permit uh the uh and that's expected to be at least targeted January of 2026 it could obviously happen sooner than that but that's leaving in a pretty considerable window for those for that dual process of the select board approving the design and the zba approving design to occur um as get get to the end of that approval process developer will be applying for various types of financing that is going to include Bank financing low-income housing tax credit financing um various public sources from the state to help subsidize the project um generally speaking th those uh types of um proposals for financing don't get approved by the state in the first round if they get approved in the first round uh the de would hear back by probably the summer of 2026 if they need to go through a second round which is pretty standard they probably won't get uh funding approval until December of 2027 and assuming that that takes place then they probably will start or they projected to start construction in the spring of 2028 so if they actually got approval for financing a year earlier could be the spring of 2027 but in all likely it will be this the the spring of 2028 before they actually start construction uh and then they have uh about a year and a half to complete the construction so folks would not start occupying till the fall of 2029 so that seems like a lifetime away from us but I will assure you as Kim will that that is pretty standard and it's unfortunate but that's just the life of an affordable housing project and Kurt could you clarify at what point in time we would have to provide the parcels tenant free it would it would be at that construction closing so that would be in EI the 2028 time frame which is likely or possibly 2027 but more likely 2028 okay um i' like permission to speak um please about would you like me to get up or just use this microphone I think whatever makes you happy okay um thank you did you just your name and add my name is Angela ialo I live on pan rhod and Swampscott I'm a member of the planning board um I think it's really helpful to have this timeline to talk about this project but I'd like to back up before we even talk about the town meeting vote to the project that was um brought to the planning board in 2021 which was for 22 units on the Pine Street site um initially we got you know plans for a building that was just basically a big um rectangle and worked with the owners the developers at that time which are they're not in obviously in the picture anymore um and over the course of a year we were able to um redesign the building somewhat so it was somewhat more or I should say somewhat less offensive to the neighborhood and less offensive as um detrimental to the spot that it's in which is a flood zone um as of both lots are our Ocean Street lot and the Pine Street Lot are both in a flood zone and they both sit within 10 feet of the Stacy Brook Culvert which as we all know um we are paying some pretty hefty um fines right now to the EPA for you know problems that we've had with our pipes that the town is spending millions and millions of dollars on I think it's $8 million to date we have another three and a half million scheduled to be spent repairing these pipes and we're going to put a very large building within 10 ft of a concrete Culver which personally I think is is a big problem we also are mandated by the state to update our flood plane bylaw because there are new maps and there are new regulations and there's actually a new template for the flood plane bylaw that we will be bringing to town meeting in May that we are obligated to adopt um which has even more rigid restrictions but to back up so when we looked at that building before um the neighbors were were we're very distressed about the the size of the building the Shadows that it cast the you know the the dangerous turning on the corner so on and so forth is a very large building that kind of loomed over the area it finally went to zoning zoning had to um to uh Grant several dimensional special permits as well as dimensional variants which is you probably most of you know is hardly ever done just so that that building could be built and it was redesigned designed in a way that was um somewhat more appealing then it had 21 units in it um as soon as the U developers got the permit from the zba which was in August um they tried to um they they put it they tried to figure out how to finance them Finance the building of the structure themselves they couldn't by November of 20122 they put the building on the market um they had several different developers come to them and look at the plans and say we you can't you know you can't afford to build this on this site so fine so at that point um I think it was the following spring that the town um the select board and you know uh decided that we would try to pursue uh purchasing the lot because veterans housing had been a PRI affordable veterans housing had been a priority and and it is it still is so when now I'm going to catch up to town meeting so we went to town meeting in May of 2023 and we voted on articles 10 and 11 article 10 was to vote to spend the money to buy the lot to buy Pine Street we already own the Ocean Street Lot the one with the current VFW um uh unit on it the um the thefw site on it but the other site the Pine Street was privately owned so we had to buy that to explain why we were going to buy that property the article 11 came along and the discussion was that we would put these two we would use these two lots as one the goal being to build affordable housing with a preference for veterans which is the exact language in the bylaw says um and seek and Lead Redevelopment of the property in in order to provide for affordable housing with a preference for veterans and a new VFW Post 1240 um so that was the plan and the only reason that I voted for it personally was because I said Okay a big building like that is never going to work on just that little Pine Street property but if you spread it out over those two lots and you did it the right way you could make it work and the other piece of it was that I felt you know because we need affordable housing so badly and we need the veterans housing so badly i' very much would have been in support of building 42 units on the two lots combined where there is ample room to do so um I'm not going to speak to the um uh replacement of the the VFW well I will speak to this replacement of the VFW space because what the B brith proposed was completely inadequate and we are obligated in my opinion and I think in your opinion to meet our obligations to provide the the proper uh facility for the VFW vets and there's I don't think there's anyone here that's going to dispute that um so you know I don't know how the the feeling is about using the recharge building which is you know about a third larger than the current VFW but that's neither here nor there I want to focus on the building that's being proposed the reason I bring this up now is I feel that I understand that benth would need to do a larger building than what we looked at um you know when it was going to be privately developed because they want to put 42 units we had only approved 21 okay and I understand that they'd all be you know one bedrooms basically because you got to get it all in on that spot so they're going to try to squeeze a lot of which is I get it it makes perfect sense it's you know they can afford to develop it I get all of that regardless there's if they building is still going to be by and large much larger than the building that was that had been planned for the site true um and it will be and and the fact is that we haven't been provided any kind of U massing plan so you know time will tell we have a little floor plan looking thing but my point is I I feel like that's I feel like the town is making a mistake for a couple of reasons first of all putting that property all on one lot is not what we voted for it's not what I voted for I voted for using both lots to put that housing on that was the town meeting vote that was the the information we were given upon which to base our decision to spend $1.7 million on that on the Pine Street property if we if that had not been the understanding and a very clear understanding and it's right here in the town meeting warrant the language never would have voted for and I would pretty much guarantee you that a lot of other people wouldn't have either um it's not a responsible way to put to build this building I know it makes the most sense financially for B BR and I understand all the reasons why I believe that there's got to be a way to do better um there has to be a way to use both Lots um where we have will have have a lot of trouble trying to put a nothing but a whole parking lot in a flood plane I mean there's there are there are so many problems on multiple levels here um the biggest one for me being is that we're we're not building the building where we said we were going to build it and you know I never would have voted to put a larger building there and to spend that money um that's all so so can you read the second part of that of of 11 because certainly um I want me to read the whole art the whole article please article 11 says disposition of land uh first of all the article 10 talks about that the town um it's authorizing the town to spend $1.72 million to acquire um to acquire the Pine Street property okay um and the intent of the article to allow that town to acquire the property in order to provide a need in the community article 11 says disposition of land 12- 24 Pine Street and a portion of 10 new ocean street so it's a portion of 10 new ocean street because the KX Peak property and the VFW property are all on one lot those are not two separate Lots it's one lot and the town owns that entire swath of land that that's why they say a portion of because it doesn't include the kaix peak property um and the article reads to see if the town will vote to authorize the select board to convey certain property as follows a parcel land containing 360 Acres more or less and all improvements thereon located at 12-24 Pine Street identified as assessor map 340 and described in a deed recorded with the Essex South District registry of deeds in book 4542 page 4 and B a parcel excuse me no I Mr Belo I I thought there was a mention uh of the fact that there was going to be a a new VFW post that was also constructed I believe that was that's it's coming up and it's in the yeah sorry sorry to interrupt that's okay I'll I'll try to skip over some of the page numbers and stuff like that um let's see and uh and T new ocean Street um let me jump ahead of all the assessors map information said parcel shown on a sketch plan as set forth in appendix C which is was an appendix in the um town meeting warrant and on such terms um let's see excuse me an appendix C on file with the town clerk for affordable housing with a preference for veterans and inclusion of a new VFW Post 1240 and such other purposes as the select board shall determine and on such terms and conditions as the select board shall deem appropriate and to authorize the select board to enter into all agreements and take any action as may be necessary or convenient to accomplish the foregoing purposes or take any action relative there too so it's clearly talking about building the affordable housing on those two it's also clearly talking about building a new VFW that's that's I'm not disputing that okay I I think may I try to neutrally uh I mean we've had this whether or not it's veterans housing I think many of us feel that absolutely there's an intention for this to be veterans housing we have a lot of lot of sway to make sure that happens I I believe that at this point obviously what Angela just read is is what was voted on and to David's point you know there's two pieces to it yes there was a town meeting vote it said it was going to be using both these parcels and there was going to be a VFW there so as time has gone on no option on the table at the moment it's perfect satisfies both of those pieces okay just as everyone just I want to make sure we're just clear on the facts right could I if I could interject one little thing just let me just make sure I finish go ahead so just restated so we have two options and Marcy said earlier there were three options right one that really was what we originally started with which was using both parcels and having the VFW Post inside the new building right okay but a full post a full post inside the building well it doesn't say a full post right so this is the idea is to rep Angelo let me finish okay it said to build a new VFW post it didn't say of the exact same square footage of course that would be a reasonable interpretation right okay but when they went to design the building that didn't seem to be possible doesn't mean it was impossible but that's not what we got back from okay that's not what they bid y just to state that okay there was a post that was much smaller okay so we sat there and we stared at that and said that's not good all right so what are the other options can we try to keep the post as it is wasn't the first thing we said but it was a a suggestion from the Vets to keep the post as it is and build all the housing on the other site which would be in contravention strictly of what to me vote was and Associated issues with that which would be one floor higher and there would be more challenges with parking we don't know how many parking spaces really would be needed it's near the train station etc etc etc that was one option and then the other option is spread the building out use both Parcels but then have the post be at recharts just maybe this is completely obvious to everyone but I just want to make sure that we're being clear about the options have I laid them out fairly as far as people are concerned yeah Angel um I will say that when Ben Bri and I'm not I understand how they have to get around these numbers so this isn't a criticism of them per se um it's the it's the situation the circumstances okay they responded to an RFP the r R FP clearly states that the the building is goes on two lots and it incorporates a new 3,000 foot VFW Post 1240 to include a canteen restrooms and meeting spaces for the VFW and Veteran related organizations that that didn't happen didn't happen so that didn't happen so but when they responded to this it's you know I'm not a lawyer but I'm sure the lawyers can speak to this that's our expectation that's what we needed um so and and we didn't get it um and and far it it falls far short of what we voted on and what we specify in the RFP those are my concerns Katie seed my time to Kim first please okay I'm we obviously have a situation where there's no there is no perfect solution to what we've set out to do we made we made a meeting a town meeting vote which made a ton of sense you know it included a new VFW post it didn't actually specify that it was going to be on the same site but it was a commitment to make sure there was a post it was a commitment to build the housing it was a commitment to the so we did this thing at town meeting then we put together an RFP that stated something that was a little more specific and Ben Bri responded to it we didn't like their response but they responded to it in keeping with the RFP they did they they gave us what we asked for and we are now saying it's not it's not acceptable because we don't like the size it didn't work out it they were they as you said they were constrained with with the response they gave a response the the bottom line is we don't like the response so now here we are with a parcel we purchased a commitment to build housing a commitment to provide veterans housing and we don't you know we're not happy with 100% happy with all the options so we have but we have to come up with an option we have to come up with a solution because the town spent money on the site we made the commitment we want to do this and it feels like everybody's going to have to give a little bit to get a to get something that is more than a little bit great like really great and not perfect and you know the affordable housing trust committed money already and it's going to stay with the project it's going to defay acquisition costs early and we committed that and you know I think the trust is indifferent you know ultimately where the post ends up obviously we want we want to honor the project but you know if there's a solution that like gets everybody substantially what we need that's where we should be focusing our efforts we can pick apart the RFP we can pick apart the RFP we can pick apart the town meeting vote you can be annoyed that there were meetings with people that you didn't like or whatever but at the end of the day you heard Kurt's description of how much time it takes right and the more we ring ring our hands about the process and not make a decision about the outcome the longer that timeline is I agree with you cim if you don't mind I just wanted to you just I just want to make sure that Katie Fen has a chance oh I'm sorry K that's okay that's okay so I just really want to Echo some of the things that Kim M very clearly stated which is we actually she said something very sort of profound earlier that it was like do I do something or do I do nothing and something is not always Perfection we know through this process we can't attain Perfection right now right so we are trying I am trying to take all of the stakeholders at the table the veterans the neighbors the 350 town meeting members the affordable housing trust the seniors who need housing and come up with the best possible solution to make some if not most hope best case scenario all but likely not all of our wants and needs occur and yes that is going to leave people wanting more I I can't deny that that is absolutely the case but what what I what I hope we can do here is figure out the needs list out the needs make sure the needs are met and all the stakeholders needs are met not just the neighbors not just the Vets not just the post because the post is part of the veterans community but the veterans community is obviously greater than the post although the post has a great presence in the veteran Community here and and determine whether or not we can't find a balanced approach to move forward so that we can meet all the needs of all the stakeholders in a way that gets something extremely incredible to occur in this town never before to my understanding has this occurred in the Commonwealth that there has been affordable housing that has been produced which has a Veterans Preference and a residential Veterans Preference never before has a board of five people stood here and committed to you that we would do everything we can to put together a committee to make sure that we would get as many of those 400 veterans who would might be able to meet the economics guidelines get under understand the application process work through the application process with them have them apply make sure that we fill the coffers as high as we can with veterans so that it is totally veterans but we are constrained by state funding mechanisms Federal funding mechanisms our developer Benet they have their own board that they have to answer to so we are doing the best we can with all the stakeholders to get the best scenario possible I just want to reiterate that that point and I'm just I'll just follow up to finish my thought and then I let everyone else speak to this so I I agree with what Kim had to say I agree with all of that when I brought forth my concerns I didn't mean that and that's it you know I mean obviously we need to do something but I I look at it like there are there are the reason I bring this up now is because I feel like the Train's on the track and we've got to at least start thinking about some of these options okay so if you look at that lot even and I'm just riffing off the top of my head you know you look at those two lots together why couldn't that building you know be stretched out a little bit and perhaps cover both lots and take that whole corner of eie Street and Pine and maybe it has some outdoor parking but it's more parklike and has a lot more green space you a slightly shorter building maybe we can pull it away from the Stacy Brook a little bit I'm not asking for or I'm not asking for anything I'm not suggesting that you know we throw the whole thing out I'm just suggesting let's look at this a little smarter than without you know kind of blowing it out of the water for B br but just saying how can wean we've got all this space let's do a better job using it and at least alleviate some of the problems that are there I I think thank you can I just follow up to Andrew yes please so I think that the thing that we also need to reiterate as Mary stated the picture that was put forward is just a preliminary sketch of what could be done on the lot it is not what B is proing proposing is the final um building guys the only thing in the LDA C correct me if I'm wrong is that it's a three story structure and that it doesn't go greater than that so that we limit to the size to the neighborhood the sizing and the shadowing the sun coming in but building has to remain three stories with the mechanisms on no greater no greater than three stories with the mechanisms on top and whatever people much smarter than me develop on that lot has to meet the conditions of the LDA and then has to to come to people much smarter than me at the planning board for the permitting for the 40 no no if we review it I'm sorry the zba I apologize the zba for the um the permitting process which is another public process so whether or not there's Angela to your point whether or not there's a park on the side or whether or not there's parking on one side versus the other that conversation hasn't even started yet right because there's a whole process that we have to get to before that even happens so if if we don't don't agree to an LDA and we don't agree to a ground leas then we never get to that conversation um and and I think I just want to be really clear that that process doesn't end tonight it doesn't even start tonight it doesn't even start till we get to an agreement with these documents and once that agreement is or is not determined then the whole process goes through with public engagement involving where trees are and where parking spots are and where the front door is and and all that conversation right but the decision about where the post is does get made with this document sure just to be clear yes yeah no I I I love the fact that we're having this conversation tonight I love the fact that we're having this conversation tonight in public it's probably several months uh delayed uh we should have been talking about this uh long ago we should have not been talking about all of these various issues in executive session how tall the building is where the post is going to be located parking these are all public these are all matters that should be discussed publicly period um you know that that we determination has been made as to any of that but but we're but we but we as a board we discussed this behind closed doors this is that's not an executive session agenda item that should be something that we should be discussing publicly just I just want to be really clear I I'm I reached out to I reached out to legal counsel to just double check to see whether or not because I thought oh should we be talking do we talk in executive session or do we talk in open and it was made very clear to me from Town Council that we needed to be speaking in executive session so about negotiation of the Land Development agreement not about negotiation of where the post is located or parking or height or any of that I I'm I'm sorry I completely disagree with you madam chair um dis with kpw and I'm I I will disagree with KP law um you know furthermore you know I was part of at least two dozen conversations you know with these veterans working groups you know I spent the last two years uh meeting and building relationships and having conversations and working really hard in conjunction with Mary uh gaska Community uh director of community and economic development the Town Administrator and various members of the BFW and the VFW executive leadership on October 9th you joined our discussion marielen for the first time and we met with leadership we told them what we were going to do and later that month we changed our we changed our tune and while the developer was updated to the changes the veterans were not you know two days ago Mr Excuse me excuse me two days ago you had a meeting with Mr emerton I'm the liaison to the veterans I wasn't notified there was little notice to the veterans uh that they could even uh be part of this so after two years of of my personal involvement dozens of meetings I wasn't notified I wasn't present it's disappointing but not surprising given the lack of communications and transparency from from you the chair you know and tonight we're going to take a vote to move the veterans from we are not we are not taking a vote Mr grishman we're not taking a vote we don't have the documents okay but put back on your but let me let me let me continue so it was determined that we had to move from Pine Street to another location I I'll give you this uh the plan for the parking at re Arts was counting the street parking around the recharge building as a solution to the parking issue however no we can't we can't count we can't count the parking the street parking on at at the Pine Street location furthermore if we're moving the V if we're moving the location of the veterans uh post at a date to be determined 26 27 28 whatever that may be this is going to result in a relocation of a liquor license which we haven't noticed so we're taking we're we're we're potentially taking action here and there are ramifications where we haven't had further conversations again it's extremely troubling and there's a pattern with the lack of transparency and the lack of communication I mean last month the town made a promise to its veterans we sat and we said you can stay you can stay at your post we're going to build around you and this month the town should follow through on that promise that we made amen [Applause] I'd like to hear from Mrs deuta me too we're you near the whole room hi Barbara Depetro 94 Eastman Avenue and I am the senior vice president of VFW auxiliary and I'm going on a little different track I'm speaking tonight to express our concerns about the recent act closed door actions which David spoke to um and moving the veterans post from Pine Street to the reach arts building at the corner of barl Street and Thomas Road and for anyone who doesn't know that was building was built in 1923 for the returning veterans from World War I and it was called the American Legion post it fell into the hands of the Town a number of years ago that's a whole big story I won't get into um so for over a year the veterans of this community have worked in good faith with the town and were promised that they would stay at the post at Pine Street um and a week later we're shocked to find out that they were not so I have some questions about that area has there been an independent feasibility study of traffic and parking in the barl street Thomas Road neighborhood I have a dentist over there in that neighborhood you can't park there I three streets away and walk um there's maybe four spots maybe five behind the building we have a lot of veterans who are um handicapped in two different degrees um that's just one little issue and will there be public meetings with the community or the Armstead community in particular regarding moving a liquor license into the residential neighborhood I don't even know if you can do that the other issue is the condition of excuse me the condition of the building the rarts building there is a ramp I know that I've been down that ramp into the oh I call it the basement but whatever the ground floor is there's a ramp into the into that room the floors above it I don't know who did this but it's all stairs and doors and kind of crazy and then there's a large room on the third floor called a ballroom but it's a big meeting room that building would require an elevator for the veterans to be able to use it and I have recently seen an estimate that it would cost $200,000 for an elevator I I don't know if that's accurate or not I just saw that but but maybe um so the parking that the neighborhood is a neighborhood of families and children where we are now they all try to be respectful of the neighborhood but it it's in a commercial little commercial strip there it's not got a house right next door to it and a house right next door to it on the other side not that they're noisy not that there's a problem but it's just good where it is and might not be good here so I know that this is coming up at town meeting on the 9th and I would like to respectfully ask you to request indefinite postponement of this article at the meeting until all of these issues can be resolved thank you second [Applause] just clarify you want to just let her know it's it's not on town meeting it's not it's not on town meeting it it's it's not on town meeting it's not on the warrant for it's not it's not on the warrant it's it's not on the warrant it's not on the warrant it's it already was on the warrant it was on the warrant two years ago no no no is there anybody from I I just want to there two things Mr grishman keeps talking about closed meetings a closed meetings would be an executive there are executive session meetings where we bring things up and it is not open to the public and because there's a possibility could bring possible negotiating problems with what we're looking to do he also brought up the fact that we had approved that there was a vote we had approved putting the the building next to recharts what he failed to say is at that next to the I'm sorry next to the post thank you next to the post what he failed to say was at that meeting we did not have all of the information brought brought the meeting back together we discussed additional information and we changed our opinion one thing that's very important to understand from I'm G just say from my perspective is to put a four floor building that has to be first it has to be elevated because it's in a flood zone and then put Mechanicals on top of it condensed right on that corner is too big for that neighborhood as far as parking the parking issue is a problem both in that design and also in moving the veterans to another spot it's a problem in either way we look so that's really a moot point but the big issue here is we are having serious push back on the size of buildings in our neighborhoods right now we've got the westcot we've got multiple people complaining about the W see people don't like the westcot the size of it and so to Katie's Katie's opinion here is trying to find a balance that's what we're trying to do trying to find a balance so you know I think it's really important that people understand a five-story building in that neighborhood is a problem and if there's anybody in the neighborhood who hasn't spoken yet that would like to get up and speak feel free I just have a question if you could just wait one second I'll get your question okay Maran I just I just have to again I have to note like characterizing it as a five-story building which we have no indication that it's a five-story building we don't need to add to the lack of clarity here okay four four stories elevated with mechanics on top you can call it whatever you want let's call it four stories elevated mechanics on top understood and just to be clear comparing that the other option is one that's elevated with three stories with Mechanicals on top okay so let's just like not we don't need to keep fuzzing the issue here okay there's facts like we're talking about the difference of one story that can mean the world to someone and that's totally cool okay but let's just be clear that's the distinction right as best we understand it right now and back to Angela's point we do not have any indication that this building is any bigger than what was proposed and approved before okay and you admitted yourself you don't know exactly how big this other building is going to be so you can't say that it's going to be bigger um so it's just there's this actually comes down I think to something relatively clear as you said the parking is going to be a challenge in either option in one neighborhood or the other right the issue of a liquor license is actually a new piece of information for me I had really thought about that in a residential neighborhood put that to the side for a moment but we're really I think all authentically trying to assess whether or not you choose to keep the post where it is is that's a process we went through with the Vets we got feedback said that was really important try to honor that and yet the corlar are to that is that you've got a building that's one story higher so that has an impact on the neighborhood just that's a fact right your other option the building shorter one story shorter and move the post I think actually like that's what it boils down to here right so it's a matter of just you know trying to just you how do you weigh those two things this is going to be veterans housing it's going to be in a flood zone either way um you know all be parking issue it's going to be a parking issue either way so like try to like boil it down so we're not kind of overdramatizing it okay so I I do want to hear what you have to say but I also want everybody to understand we've been talking about this now for just short of two hours and we also have other things on the agenda so I really want to make sure everybody gets a chance to speak but we do have some other things so we do have to consider whether or not we end the discussion and then pick it back up after we get through some of our other things or I just want to ask this select board I just want to ask the select board what you would like to do but would you like how about if you speak first and then my name is Christine Johnson and I am the only abutter to this property 12 Street 12 eie Street a okay and swamp Scott right I'm sorry swamp Scott yes so fact that you're thinking of a four or five story building is going to mean I get no light at all in my yard will block anything into my house and I just want you to consider that as well say I'm the only Ved of the property thank you Mr Johnson thank you no Susan Bishop thank you kindly as Kim mentioned we all have to give a little so why does it have to be this big monstrosity why can't we go down to something smaller in leave alone originally proposed why does it have to be so big uh can I answer yes go ahead so in order for it to be financially feasible for banet breath it has to be approximately the the developer it has to be approximately 40 units if they can't go we have asked are we married to that developer they're the only ones who answered the RFP but what if we asked for a smaller building well we asked for 30 to 40 in the initial RFP um um uh RFP ask like when we when we put the RFP out we didn't say we want 40 units or we didn't give a specific number we gave a range all the way from 30 to 40 the they answered with that number it's a shame okay so we're going is there nope we're gonna is there anybody new that would like to speak I'm only going with somebody new I'm only going with somebody new here Mr patios because we're going to go I will I will come back to public comment after our meeting but we've got people that have been sitting here for two hours that we have to address we also have to open and close our warrant tonight so if there's so we're going to move on to other topics and then if if public comment first they haven't spoke right there's a gentleman there's a gentl is there a gentleman no no hold on is there a gentleman who has not spoken for public comment sir okay you know what El I will I will pull you I'll put you in first he's under the petition he's under the petition I'm sorry he's on he's in the consent agenda okay God okay go on and get a snack come back here okay all right so we're going to um should we pull that out of the consent agenda to get are we gonna are we gonna close want to talk oh I'm so sorry Dave okay can you just approach the mic though because otherwise people at home won't hear what you're saying and I'm sure it's they want to hear you thank you sorry about that I got your address so I yes I just wanted to say the VFW was established in swampit on August 19th 1924 that's 100 years so let's do what's right for the veterans all [Applause] okay okay so we're going to um we're actually going to put the Town Administrator report at the end what I can I inter I just want to make sure that if anybody hasn't spoken yet they would like to speak about about this matter just want make sure they're really clear you you've been given two opportunities to speak Mr P what what more would you like to speak about Mr Patos yeah honly honestly this is very easily solved when you open your warrant you put this RFP back out because when it's every as an elected official I had to take certain courses and one of those happened to be with RFP I'm also the governor's appointed to the housing authority and the chair so when we issue an RFP that RFP has to be responded to precisely the way it's written if there's any changes to that RFP it has null and void it has to be resubmitted and publicly advertised for respondents you only had one respondent nothing wrong with Benet Bri but they're not the sole source and I bet you if you put it out today you'll have other respondents and make the rules clear it either includes it there or it doesn't include that by the way I think it's not a bad idea the former American Legion Post but there's de devil in the details I think that all the ingredients here require a resubmission of an RFP that clears the ear and everyone can vote at it in town meeting that's the solution thank you okay so do you V hold on Mara Dalton need a mic hold on Mar hi I Masha Dalton 37 Pine Street in swamps of course swamps sorry um I just have one question am I right in assuming that nothing is going to be decided tonight that's a good is that okay that's right what I wanted to know thank you thank you yes okay so if people want if you want to leave uh you could leave and then if you want to stay and we'll come back to this at at the end you're welcome to do that too but right now we're going to start to go through our agenda okay I just want to give you the opportunity in case you do want to leave but you could stay I mean this is pretty interesting stuff take me with you I have to say that I'm really proud of the fact that we turn people's anger into chanting for an RF I've never heard I've never heard the RF toally feel free I'm good for the moment but I'm good I already went no okay everybody's good I to go find let's keep moving okay so uh next on our next on our agenda you want to Mr ptio Mr paos we're just trying to get to our agenda so can I make a motion to pull the item National Grid out of the consense agenda so this gentlemen can move along can we have a second we have a motion on the floor to pull the National Grid out of the agenda Mr National Grid Mr National Grid where is it hold on he's in the inent agenda right where's that there's nothing I don't have any idea second hello my name is Stephen I'm here to represent National Grid um we have a petition for two underground um conduits about 4 in that goes from pole two to 11 Boon Street Mr acting Town Administrator do you have this information are you good with this with this yep so yeah so there's a new development going on at 11 Bo Street they've already agreed to pave curb to curb there because it was a bonded Street the developers Paving it because the new water and soore this is going to be inside their limits they're just running the electrical instead of being above grade it's going underneath the ground across the street relatively simple I have no issues with it does anybody on the S board have any comments or issues no so can we have a motion to accept the um changes for National Grid so move second Katie sure second okay all in favor motion passes sorry thank you thank you you have to tell us next time first well to be fair we had started before he arrives okay he's getting paid by the hour all right okay so next we're going to have a um update from the water and sewer infrastructure advisory chair Elizabeth Smith here hold on we'll get you a mic Diane right up here oh right here I got you got one everybody spring working okay I'll be brief I was oh don't be brief you don't have to take your time you're really brief okay we just wanted to kind of give you an update since the last time we spoke with you was in July and we've been doing quite a lot of things um we have two meetings a month uh we approve minutes from our last meeting meeting at our current meeting almost all the time our meetings have been recorded since June they're all available on the um cable channel um and we can be reached at WS Swampscott ma.gov you can reach to me directly or any member of the committee anytime that's anytime that's yeah you can send it anytime okay I'll read it once a day um and that's for all of you guys and for uh the public um we have formed several working groups uh among them are sewer water storm water technical testing financial and rules and regulations so they are a various sizes usually two to three people never more than four um so that we can be really Nimble and look at things uh between our meetings um for communication we're expanding through the town website through our uh water and sewer page and the DPW page you may have noticed that there's an update on the fisherman's Beach sewer rehab work now available on the town website both through the DPW page and through the water and sewer page it lists the streets that are going to be worked on it has a map to show the areas that are going to be worked on um and uh Gina will probably mention a little bit more about that work but that should begin in two to three weeks by mid December anyway um we're looking for other ways to uh improve communication to get information out to people but all of our meetings as your meetings are public so people have lots of different ways that they can find out what we're talking about and what's going on um we are reviewing the water sewer and storm water rules and regulations um and looking for ways to update and strengthen them uh one one quick example is that um it was found that there are some apartment buildings on Humphrey Street that had some pumps connected directly to the store pipes that is not good for the store pipes it fills them up with water um increases our costs makes them less efficient um and also that infiltration of storm water and groundw into the seore pipes can force sewage out of brakes and leaks so it works both ways and it's just not a good scenario when we looked for what rule or regulation would cover that there's not a specific uh bylaw or rule in town in Swampscott that addresses that specific issue there is a state statute uh we checked with Town Council because you might know sometimes State statutes aren't always clear or sometimes they seem vague or they rely on President so it's not always apparent what state statute might cover the situation they said to us that the state law would cover us and we could use that to inform the owners of these buildings owner of these buildings that they need to rectify the situation but they also recommended that as many many towns have done we develop a bylaw that specifically addresses this issue of infiltration of storm water sunm pumps Etc into the source so we're working on that among just a general review of all of our rules and regulations and bylaws to make sure that they are as as good and solid as they can be um we're looking at sewer laterals we're evaluating um how they contribute to pollution um and what we can do to um make sure that they are updated and upgraded on a regular basis as they should be we want to make sure that we have a comprehensive approach maybe you know that in Phase One Of Kings Beach consent to cre work we repaired about 470 laterals um which is about 10% of the total in town as part of the fisherman's Beach workor there's a plan to uh repair another 52 or 55 laterals um there is an approach that says if a if a s lateral goes over a storm pipe then it's automatically repaired because if it's leaking it's going to get into the storm rain system before anything else does so we're looking at that does that make sense is there a way to make that even more stringent or more robust um so we're reviewing all of that and looking at what neighboring towns other municipalities in the state are doing to to upgrade the approach to Sor laterals um storm water were investigating the practicality and feasibility of a storm water Enterprise fund um many towns in Massachusetts and across the country have established these it's it's not quite as easy or as straightforward as water and sewer Enterprise funds because there's not a fee for use of storm drain system so we're looking at different options and we'll come to with a proposal when we're ready uh technical we are exploring the town's GIS maps we are um in the process of getting one of the licenses that kleim Felder holds for us and um we'll be looking at what they've already built out which is specifically for the town and includes maps of all the all the pipes as well as the sewer laterals and ideally eventually we'll be able to map out where work has been done where work is planned to be done and really use it as a communication tool as well as a management tool um water you may know that there's a whole a grant and a process going on with respect to leaded pipes so there was a mailing that went out um about that as we build up uh the database it says you know where we might have lead pipes and where they need to be addressed we don't think we have virtually any but we are um required to build out this map um Financial we're working with the DPW director slash acting Town manager determine the capital needs for fiscal year 26 and Beyond um testing we are pleased with the work that was accomplished over the summer uh those test results identified issues at Fisherman's Beach specifically the Marshall Street outfall but also the cityy outfall and they supported the need to begin that work as soon as possible ID testing that uh was performed in those areas indicated high levels of pollution coming from the Greenwood AV area um do you know manag get a camera looked up those pipes found seven seven brakes five five brakes which have all been repaired in the Greenwood a and Rockland Street area but um we think it's prudent to line the sewer m in those areas to to really make sure that they're secure they're built on ledge they have a tendency to shift so we haven't lined them right no okay not yet that'll be part of the project it'll be added to the project um and king king's Beach um we talked about this a little while ago we learned that there was a watermain leak in the curry circle area that was artificially depressing bacteria levels so that when the ID testing was done in the spring at the stasis Brook area the bacteria looked really good I like wow this is great but it was because of the chlorine coming from the watermain leak we fixed that water main leak but we still shouldn't fix this week right this week we showed High chlorine levels there as well so there has to be another leak so we're investigating to see where that is so we can fix that and then we can get true readings um and finally we are looking uh investigating the ultra ultraviolet right ultraviolet pilot and we're going to talk about that we talk about that next but um does anybody have any questions I do um can you give us a sense the work at Fisherman's to either of you um that's underway right now I know we found some juicy situations that have been corrected I'm not sure if those are the same ones yep exact same going up Greenwood yeah um uh so I guess minor question is have we done testing at the outfall have we kind of materially do we think we've materially impacted the flow of eoli uh from fixing that not yet okay we haven't fixed it yet yeah well we fix the braks but before you can do M the mains you have to fix the broken pipes for us so step one has been accomplished and Gren is going to start digging and coming into town in December 2nd the lineing will probably start at the beginning of January okay and then um just to follow up on that the original 1.8 million or whatever contract that we have y am I getting that right yep um when do we expect that chunk to be done July 1st 2025 okay thank you I have a question um on Humphrey Street do we have an issue with Humphrey somewhere up on Humphrey Street by Kings Beach with um any homes or anything like that leaking uh tapping into the the um storm water that's the one I was talking about and and G's already met with the management company for the buildings so there's repair and so when will that be repaired probably in the springtime oh but that issue I think is a little different it's not it's sewers tied into the drain it's just the opposite it's drain tied into the seore so essentially what that's doing is costing us more money because we're treating clean water right and because it's over taxing exactly it does it does yeah yeah that's great listening but we're looking at we're we're looking at having that completed or fixed by you're saying Spring by the spring is that a reasonable are we evaluating all of our all of our multif family or structures to ensure that this this you know the I guess the the drainage into the sewers is not a more prevalent issue across town with other with other structures yeah so every time we do a a home gets sold in swans we have to do a final water read the water department goes into each one of the houses single family two family multi family whatever it is and make sure they do not have some pumps tied into the soore no understood but but I believe I believe there are structures in town that have uh that have their their gutters that are going right into the they're going right into the sewer no that's what we're checking on that's what you're checking on absolutely got is yep okay so would some pumps got his okay so so okay so you found that on one on one building or no we on the multiple buildings multip somebody right we don't allow them we don't give them a final read until they correct the problem got it okay okay just as simple as taking the discharge hose and pumping it into your backyard okay so or you can get a permit in to to tap into the storm drain system right however there's not storm drains on every street in town okay I have a quick just one more quick question I'm so sorry what happens if you have a a yard and the yard is is flooding quite a bit and year after year it's getting worse and worse and worse what can people do with a situation like that can they tap into the if there's drainage on the street you can get a permit a license excavator on our town okay can tie it into the drainage system prior to doing that you have to sign a waiver now because if it ends up backing up when not can be held liable okay so there is a some type of a mechanism to help somebody with that okay right okay but we worry about the system being over tax that's why we make to sound way yeah I just had a question for for chairperson Smith um so so Liz um just just real quick um I know you know we had we had chatted and you had mentioned the need for potentially a warrant article or or two at annual town meeting is that something is that something that you're yes that you're working you're working with related to the to the bylaws and rules and regulations yes so you anticipate that through work with KP law we'll have we could have something you know later this later this winter so we could yeah I don't I I have to actually investigate what the the time frame I would say probably by beginning of February you would have something ready okay I just wanted to make sure that that that that was that that was that was shared amongst uh amongst us uh and the public and that way we could uh we could make sure that we move mountains to accommodate that request to include it on the annual town meeting warrant okay that is very transparent Katie um one comment uh question I had regarding in the the bylaws I assume correct me if I'm wrong we are looking into um I think this has brought been brought up multiple times about laterals about having like if you the sale of your home would require a lateral spring in inspection and then that inspection would allow for a pass or a fail and you wouldn't be able to trade your home unless you passed so that we were not perpetuating issues right long longer than necessary we're looking at that as part of a comprehensive view of the of the laterals in in addition to you know if if it's a hardship for someone y like how do we help them Y is it fair that we've fixed you know 10 15% of the laterals in town but not the others and can we explain that and rationalize it um so we we don't want to and you know we want to make sure that people know that homeowners property owners own the laterals up to the up to the Sewer main which is typically in the middle of the street not always but almost always so we want to when we we don't want to piece meal information out we want to have a comprehensive view right so there's a a a piece of Education to the homeowner alongside potentially a recommendation for whatever happens going forward well are you talking about are you talking about in the someone goes to sell their house you need to have a certification that your house that your Lal is satisfactory right right right so just so you know I do know that Andrea Mory had sent a um some work in on uh on those bylaws from other communities yeah we have that we we're pulling together information um it's you know it's a good thing to have it's important but it's a very very slow process to address your lateral issues so we don't want it to be the only tool in our tool box all right um the other thing just I forgot to mention that the Kings Beach Phase 2 work is in the design process they're expecting to go out to bid I think beginning of January probably middle of January now with the holiday okay yeah so then that work commence second quarter to Junes okay can I say one more sure just it is n just had a quick question for G just about the relining of the pipes is it weather dependent can you can Reign the pipes any time of year 12 okay great I have a simple one too um so um the low uh low interest Loan program I forget the name srf srf we applied do we know what the next step in that process is when we might hear the next it's a really juicy situation so I don't know if we're going to be able to talk about that right now yeah we applied for 3.5 million and off the top of my head I forget exactly when we hear about it but it's um I want to say January January that's what I thought okay okay I just want to acknowledge the work that this committee has done it's an extraordinary amount of work I mean the amount of hours that the entire committee has put in yes from its establishment is really um continuing to be noted and will be noted every time so appreciate it I think at the end of the year you probably are going to win the committee of the Year award we're definitely given solid the solid waste advisory committee is now on their heels gu pigy back on what you said as most of you know I've been a we and assistant engineer for a significant period of time and there's my deao system times been phenomenal another hat you don't think it's living wage so now let's uh we're just now you can change your hat we're just going to talk about discussion on Kings Beach proposed UV disinfection disinfecting system um what there's no material on this right no okay no um just just to recap um mayor Nicholson met with Gino and I it wasn't a secret meeting or anything but it wasn't posted out there but Gino and I met with the mayor and uh and Jenny Armen and Brendon Brendon Kon and um the mayor is very very focused on trying to get a pilot set up and he wanted to um get swamps got on board with that and form a partnership the mayor at that meeting disclosed that he felt it was going to be $250,000 and that we could work it through our no in our meeting he said $250,000 it wasn't each in that meeting and I think that's what it that's the way we interpret it used to be 500 each in that meeting with us it was only 250 so that's what so we're we're going back and forth to try to understand that so what we did after that meeting is we made it really clear to the mayor that we have a water and sewer infrastructure committee and that we were going to be giving that information over to them and let them make some type of a recommendation and then so you and your water sewer infrastructure committee can just give us your update after just a this short amount of time that you've been trying to look at it so so we have talked about it but we don't have enough information right now to to even make a recommendation right we're still waiting on um the mayor was really asking if the town if the select board would commit to um booking the so-called Pilot truck for a specific period of time for next summer um but the very preliminary time frame and timeline that CLE Felder has put together does not get us to a pilot next summer it gets us to a pilot starting the FastTrack version gets us to a pilot starting at the end of August so they are spending the next six weeks um and about $20,000 worth of Consulting that Lynn has agreed to pay um to see if they can fast super fast track the plan and get it so that it can be in the summer because the mayor was also very specific that he wants it to be at a time when we can say the beach is open and let people swim and you know not just test out the theory of does UV work in our specific Stacy's Brook environment but can we also while we're piloting if we're going to do all that and spend all that money to Pilot it let's do it at a time when we can open the beach and let people swim at least during dry weather because the system does not work during wet weather so um they are work working to find out what the terms and conditions would be to book the truck it's 40 $40,000 per month so for three months it's $120,000 just for the pilot truck we don't know if we if we book it and we miss the date because of Permitting or some engineering something or other and it slides out and we say well no we don't want to do the pilot in October November and December so we just want to cancel the machine we don't know what the terms and conditions are for making that commitment so we're waiting for that information and we're waiting for Klein felder's work which they think will take about six weeks to come back and answer about 15 questions um that we had right off the bat such as what are the specs of the pilot unit um what kind of noise factor is there where would it go what kind of Permitting is required in order to put it there they're talking about the triangle where Eastern um Humphrey and l or drive come together that is the outfall DCR property um so what kind of Permitting will we need to do it's a flood it's in a flood zone it's within I think conservation commissions 100 feet of wetlands etc etc so there's a lot of questions and in order to Fast Track we probably can't use a general contractor we would probably have to do the work Lynn and swamps got inhouse like we wouldn't have time to put it out to bid and wait for the bids and analyze it we would just have to say Okay this is what we need to do this is how we're going to do it go that's the only way to get it done so there's a lot of unknowns so right now we don't have answers to pretty much any of those questions and just to make sure level set like we've done a very very mini mini mini pilot right no we haven't done a pil we've just done testing testing that was the mini mini okay testing on what four samples and none of them are of turbulent water is that it okay right that was my point okay um do I understand this never really been done for this purpose before I don't know Newport Rhode Island has done something similar right the DP said that they didn't think it was a good example because it didn't really open their Beach any more than it was opened before I know that some people went down and looked at it I think know was on that team but I I personally haven't seen it so I don't know um but isn't there a thing like this has been used more for SE waste storm water right the only place we know is as Liz was saying Sean and I took a trip down there with kleinfelder Newport Rhode Island that was storm water storm water yep on a significant scale on a significant scale yep but as just said the results were mixed but I also don't think it was it's not like a Stacy Brook type of big flow of water system it was more of a bring it in and treat it right and then let it flow out like contain it treat it that's my understanding it was it's almost like there was a detention Pond behind the unit the water filtered into there they treated it and sent it back out into the ocean more controlled yeah interesting the other issue that I'm going to just keep bringing up is if there is an issue is if this works and it's really great there is an issue as to where to put a facility and we have we just spoke about an incredibly dense neighborhood and kleinfelder has really in my opinion not significantly identified whether or not that space is relevant for for the project or or whether it will even work what the impact is to the neighborhood and they don't they haven't even given multiple different places so I think that's a real serious problem that needs to be discussed and anytime I have brought it up the answer that I'm given is we will figure it out and I don't want to see hundreds of thousands of dollars spent and then later we're trying to figure something out on the backs of people in that neighborhood well the that triangle is only for the pilot I I think I could go out on a limb here and say not be a permanent location and there is no good permanent location just ready and waiting so that that does that is a big unanswered question yeah the location I think you're referring to that has been discussed is three new ocean squeezing you'll be using every square foot of that lot to put the facility in and then when you have trucks coming in that have to park out on New Ocean Street are are we still also running tests or design on the out on on an outfall extension are we still looking at that or that's that's the table at this time tabled right so this the only thing we're talking about right now is request okay but but your point on what we're looking for the Outsource because we we have to remember is Our Town Administrator is very Pro Outsource the outfall outfall and you know I think we've heard enough about the pros of outfall that you know so from the steering committee we are still very Pro we haven't taken that off the table okay right we just aren haven't no have we taken ozone off the table that's the third alternative yeah it didn't we allocate funding to move all three of those forward some beginning way yes we're just the U is just the is is the first piece of that am we just pushing some of that has already been expended sorry some of it's been expended it's been expended some of the 200 that you are already allocated has been spent 75,000 of it went to the paa and UV mini mini mini pilot you were talking about the bench testing um and also the report the original report so okay so we're uh thank you Liz for your hard work and um thank you Gino for jumping in there and um so what what is like when do we need to make a decision by we don't have the information so once we have oh the six weeks once Liz comes back with information then we'll we'll we'll discuss it again but there's nothing more we can do I mean if they come back tomorrow and say oh if you book this you know if you commit to the pilot truck but if the whole thing slides you can get out of it with you know for Zer then you know that's one discussion if they say something else then it's a different disc discussion and then we won't have any of the other information for at least six weeks I would say yeah and and just in my opinion I we should be running this test in the summer so we should be doing this Memorial Day to Labor Day um that makes absolute sense it does not make sense for us to run this test at the middle of August end of August September um let's do it during Beach season yeah right agreed yeah I don't want to speak for the mayor but that's why they're exploring the UV with the hope that we could get the beaches open yeah June July and August yep okay okay thank you Liz sure all right so moving on real quick um we've already we're moving on to the collective bargaining agreement or AFS CME Council 93 local 2610 administrative um professionals we've already seen this and so if uh there are any we're good can uh we have a motion to approve motion second Katie second all in favor hi hi all right the men know how to Second Ela designated driver designated second the designated taught me that always the bride never the Bri all right so um now we'll just go you know what we don't really do we need an update on the arpa funds right this second I'm just going to constantly keep it on there oh did you want to talk about resiliency on that all right so let's just yeah now Martha left she left I don't know if she happens to be online um or do you want me to just you want me to pop it on to the next meeting or it's your call no okay unfortunately timing is of the essence all right um all right so let's go to um the update on the arpa funds okay um I don't know if there's any other besides Liz uh um can't leave yet um uh if Martha happens to be online or or Jackson or Ryan um so is that the group that you had yeah okay so we were hoping that people could be here tonight um so quick refresher we went through this process it will last six months we applied for MVP uh we applied for czm didn't win either of those had you know comprehensive proposals um that you all you know have a kind of an outline um um in front of you uh let's see where is that um it's not that one you don't have in front of you um I don't know if you have from last time but we had this summary I didn't bring we don't have I did okay so after last time got together with uh chair uh chair Smith here and chair Schmidt from uh climate action resiliency and uh chair of Harbor and water um and we went back through this proposal to kind of try to get to the meat of it the essence of it to keep it within roughly a $200,000 scope and uh what we' like to recommend is that as you may recall there was a 30,000 for project Administration we'll come back to that um there's a community engagement piece here which made sense in the big big scheme of things because it was really taking it from Soup To Nuts like the whole process we believe that if we uh zero in on more like the analytic piece of this up front that there's really nothing reasonable that the community needs to weigh in yet until we have the right information to present so we can greatly diminish the community engagement process at this point um and that would come at a second phase once we have the information that I'm about to go through so we definitely need this Coastal vulnerability analysis it basically updates as a refresher everything that we did in 2016 um with all the latest flood models etc etc that was that dollar mon 40 38,000 call it 40 um we definitely need the fisherman's Beach Alternatives analysis the way they categorize it here that's 36,000 it's kind of like layer one really in their kind of evaluating Alternatives Layer Two is what they call Fisherman's Beach neighborhood flood protection approach that really gets to really costing out you know you basically kind of it's a funnel there's like 14 different solutions you like funnel them down to maybe eight in this first phase and then you you really go to town really modeling out and costing out the last8 that's what's the 85 and we do believe that one one of the optional add-on Services is very very critical that's the rainfall based flood model that's number 35 so what you get to here is about 200,000 um and then the project admin there'll probably be some project admin on that it won't be the full 30,000 let's call it maybe 15,000 very roughly again we're going to have to put this out the bid so we're just using these numbers as kind of a guide right now in terms of scope that fits in your budget this is all in the budget okay can you so was Ryan hail part of these conversations Ryan hail could not make it the time we met this weekend but we've received input from him by email um and um I think one of the concerns if I can try to reflect it as accurately as possible is that there's a desire to make sure that this is an open procurement um and that we get different bids and different approaches to this type of scope I think is one of the most critical pieces to this there is um definitely some uh we got some feedback from coastal zone management yesterday on the proposal we put in and you know as we understand it we've always understood it one of the 14 different options here is a living reef and there is definitely a great deal of debate um amongst parties here whether or not that should even be on the table as an option um and how much resource we should commit to that because there's definitely kind of a high hurdle to that becoming reality um it's my opinion that it should be on the list and should get that initial layer of review within this $38,000 of this uh sorry within the $36,000 the first level of analysis um I would not be surprised if it drops off at that point in this process and doesn't kind of make it to the Final Cut but I don't want to S this was the whole point of this is that different people have different ways that they wait that and I don't with all due respect to all of us I don't think any of us are the experts on this and that's the whole point of doing this process but did the people from czm did are they are they making recommendations as to where we should be spending no didn't say what they did say and I I think the most czm is about we need to get to a point where we know what project we want to build and the problem we keep hitting with all these things is we want to do this big study to figure out which project and they don't want to fund that they want to they want to know that you know what you're doing and we can build a project but but the question is are they saying are there projects that they're saying you know what we're not we're not going to we're not funding this or so I specifically asked them about the living reef because it it does keep turning around and what they told us was it is a wave mitigation effort it does not stop a surge of seawat coming at you and flooding you know flooding p and road so that is why they tend to say it's not a flood mitigation strategy it's more of a you know it calms the waves um it's and because of the Eel Grass situation right they feel like it's probably not the best solution for that area um but what they said was because I said you know we're we're talking about doing the analysis that we had put in our request for a grant from you self-funding that so that we can be ready next year with a specific project does that make sense and they said absolutely two things they will help us along the way we can talk to them about what we're learning before the grant applications are due and they will give us guidance they also said the most important thing for us is the really rigorous Alternatives analysis why did you choose this over this don't just tell us you think a living reef you know is a good idea or you think you should raise your sea wall prove to us analytically why that's the right choice for you at this time as part of your your plan going forward so to me using the money in this way after all those conversation makes the most sense yeah okay that's a lot that's really good Insight I think basically what they're trying to say is show us that this isn't a want it's a need and the way you do that is to justify it by removing other Alternatives saying why those things don't work so if you take all these things will you be able to immediately get contracts ready because I think Amy are you are you as on that screen there okay oh does he hold on Amy Ryan Ryan did you leave us no he's right there did he have his hand up he did he did and then he stopped maybe because he heard something really fantastic and decided he didn't have to say only if you want to only if you want to all right we're gonna take so so yes right that's why time is of the essence because basically now we need to turn this into actually a procurement get it out there two weeks get bids back evaluate them get to a contract by 12:31 okay and Amy that works within the time schedule right yeah don't have the time schu down on that you say it again a little a down down oh Doug's got a down P I know it was hard to believe no not that I disbelieved her just sounded muffled okay all right so sorry we don't need to take any action on this yeah okay we're good all right well that very helpful good one other thing we took out of that meeting from CGM is they said they funded $5 million worth of projects and there were 40 applicants total in 24 million so wow only 20% of the projects got passed that's just we need to be in there next time and and Gino or Liz do we have an idea of whether storm surge and storm surge is is causing flooding or the wave action is is causing the flooding or are they one and the same I think it's more the surch It's a combination of the surge coming up and the storm water coming down and that's why that's why I think we need to do both we need to update the storm water coming down from the rain precipitation does that make sense you look like it doesn't make sense because I've been there and then the rain's not doing anything it's those it's the waves coming up it's the search Ryan are you back see is that we're not leaving I think so you guys shoot Ryan can you hear me now yeah yeah we can still hear you okay great so I I just wanted to clarify um the role of czm in our plans as a town so I'd like to hear from Doug or from anyone whether the relationships we have with czm or with kleinfelder or anybody are exclusive because what I understand is that the coastal zone management organization in in Massachusetts is a source of uh knowledge and guidance for us and a source of funding but it is not the only partner we can have in developing in a plan and implementing a strategy to make our community more resilient towards the uh effects of you know sea level rise and more intense storms and all the stuff that's coming in the future so I I want to make sure that we're uh aware as a as a community that there there are lots of other uh you know Partners out there there are lots of funding sources out there there are a lot of um you know vendors who will want to sell us services and concrete and other Solutions um and I just want to make sure that we aren't not restricting our options uh and and sort of hitching our wagon to czm or to kleinfelder uh too tightly absolutely not we're happy to take the best bid of course and we are happy to get money from anybody that wants to give it to us um you know I I think the natural gravitation is towards czm is one of the biggest sources for these big types of coastal projects um but you know ideally as we've talked about before we'll actually get a resiliency and climate manager position to reinforce the efforts that Mary can put forward so that we are scouring high and low for every possible opportunity um but in any case having this base understanding of what our options are uh will put us in a much better position to you know know which Grant to go after because we're going after nature-based Solutions purely or that maybe one grants for that another ones where we might need to increase seaw walls or you know whatever it is um but first we need to know what we're going after okay I just I have a followup to Ryan's question okay relax I promise be fast you probably answer this but if you can't maybe just come back with it um if we when we hopefully go through with all of this and get a recommendation as how to proceed in our grant writing going forward if we are going in multiple directions generally when we write grants we're not precluded from multiple fund sources or like it's not just one pot that everybody takes from and so if we get one we don't get another it's if we've determined that five areas are of interest and these are the reasons why we should be stretching our net as far as possible so that maybe we could possibly do three or four of those five interests absolutely okay so there's no reason to say that if we take the ad the advocacy and help of czm to get to a point that once we get to that point we then Branch out into other pools of funding and with other partners totally okay okay so R set I do have one other arpa thing oh okay sorry and it's it's a a relatively significant one oh wow yeah um so I'd like to just introduce this tonight it's not something that we have to decide on um but as I was kind of reflecting on what uh we have funded through arpa you know as a like a really quick summary right we way back when there were funds put towards staff um right during the pandemic um then we committed 1.7 or so um for the veterans housing um and then we went through another 5 1.5 for Fisherman's and then a whole list of other kind of smaller projects right and we had a fun debate about that at that point um couple couple different debates actually um but what I realized when I was kind of looking back over the point of arpa is that one thing we really didn't do is address directly the negative economic impact that the pandemic had and inflation had particularly on Lower inome people here in Swampscott and there is a very clear provision in fact it's the first purpose under arpa is to kind of address the negative economic impacts that people experienced and uh municipalities States whatever can make direct cash payments to People based on different criteria that you can set um you know it could be the under the poverty line it could be you know however you want said it basically so I'd like us to consider um utilizing some of the funds either that are not going to get used um and we probably should talk about some of them that are looking that way um and some of the funds right now that we have dedicated to Fisherman's not to change the overall amount that would be spent on Fisherman's repair because we would supplement that with more of the lowincome loan funding but that we would take a considerable amount I'll propose $750,000 total of the arpa funding and distribute that for example $750 to 1,000 households here in swamp Scott who have EXP experienced the most significant impact from inflation so a lot to digest there Doug but um as you've thought about it the most what sort of how how do criteria yeah what's the criteria for determin financial impact because of inflation yep well ultimately we can decide um and that others have chosen different benchmarks for that um you can choose the poverty line um you can choose the 30% Ami level that we talked about with housing you could choose 60% Ami obviously you're adding more and more households depending on what the criteria are there um I don't believe as far as I've understood it that there is any um direction that you must choose one of these kind of established Federal benchmarks um but that's something that obviously we we could um look into more so go ahead David I already asked no I was I was just curious if you see this as a as a direct payment y okay that that's as I'm proposing it may maybe there's some other way to do it but um that's clearly in the regulations and um it seems as though that would be the simplest uh way to go about it but I'm you know flexible about you know I I I'll be us we've known we've known about that since day one and here we are November 20th we've got to get everything squared up by 12:31 yeah and as great as that seems I just I feel like we've already done our work and that's pretty tough and has this been done in other towns Massachusetts I don't know about it in Massachusetts do you know about it anywhere else um I'd have to figure out where the example was that I started thought but so well we do have a precedent for redirecting arpa funds so if there's money not spent I think it's worth understanding I don't think that's what he's well first he said let's look at not spent that's not going to be it say and but yes okay but but I'm saying let's look at that dollar amount first we have to look at where exactly it would come from right I mean right yeah it's not being spent and it can't be spent and I don't want to leave money on the table we're not leave any money so let's see what that number is and then I'd also like to understand if from any of the um proposed criteria like how many families are we talking about what if we what if we end up with 1500 Families how do we decide how do we decide getting it well that's why we set the criteria so so I just I don't even know if that's those criteria are feasible based on how do we criteria so definitely interested in understanding more and then if that's uh from Amy if it's even feasible say we decide yes we're going to do it and we're going to give a th whatever a thousand families this is the criteria how then that actually comes to fruition before well we just have to we just have to say we're going to do it before December do you have any thoughts here or any you have your hand up right she does yeah am am I a reasonable volume right now you are you okay um there are some communities in Massachusetts that have done this great um one community did it as just a blanket they gave an entire uh the graduating class after covid they gave every student from that graduating class in high school believe it was a $1,000 scholarship wow um other communities have set up various benchmarks you do need need to prove that you were um negatively economically impacted from Co so it can just be a poverty Benchmark it has to be directly tied to co so you'd have to prove that your income was directly impacted from Co um there's a lot of benchmarks most of the communities that did this are the larger cities who hired an ARA person um who handle it but I know exactly which communities did this so I'm already drafting the email to them to find out what their criteria was so we can piggyback off all of their hard work um if this is something we want to look to so I'll get that information and circulate it to the board so that we can have more a conversation around it okay and then Amy the timing piece of it it would just be that we would commit it by the end of the year it doesn't have to get paid by the end of the year right it doesn't have to get paid by the end of the year I do have to check and find out how commitment would look in this context because there wouldn't be any sort of contract right um so that's the other thing that I have to follow up and check on I guess to the other question that just came to mind is if we have to identify the thousand people before and that's part of what the commitment is or if we just say this is our commitment up to this dollar amount and we commit to do that and then that's what we have the space to do post the end of the year I do not believe we would have to have the persons or the families identified I believe you would have to have the criteria and the rubrics identified before okay the 31st Amy did any of these towns ever do just you know every resident gets X or is it no no okay there's a qualifier yeah there has to be a qualifier Ty would there and most of the ones that did it did it the first year right right like 2021 or 20 yeah the first year of Mara was when they did it so I don't know any Community that's giving direct cash assistance at this point right right that's yeah good point okay interesting dou so can we now move to a discussion and possible vote to open the warrant for special town meeting some move second because that's my job all in favor I I I all right so now let's review the town meeting warrant including review discussion votes on articles for inclusion and warrant is Doug is is your article in here the one that yes okay did it make it in there all right thank you let's not call it Doug's article but okay so um let's just start with start with article one um do we have any questions Amy you want to walk us through article one these are the Bills approve bills are there any questions list seems a little larger than last time yeah did we lose them no still here um yeah we do have some additional bills that were added um that were brought to our attention so because we have them in hand we wanted to get them on the war the large one that you have on there for the insurance we were going back and forth with the broker because we had paid that bill and then they sent us a refund check and told us that it was double paid oh God and then after the fiscal year had closed they sent it back to us and told us that we do still owe it so we were going back with the insurance company to find out if that wasn't pass the load it's a big Bill it's unb um what else was added here because there wasn't this much what beach pass fulfillment from 611 20124 oh maybe the it came in too late yeah that was probably this and don't you WR don't we have purchase orders that we're setting aside to we do and so these these were um either above and beyond the pur disorders that existed or we were um told by the department head that there was no more use for it and we released the incum funds okay okay and we're good we don't have any legal bills in here right we do don't we there was two yeah adver Ms right okay all right so that's article one um article two sorry to interrupt you it's Patrick oh hi Patrick um just to remind you in the draft of the warrant you have each article we have to identify tonight who is sponsoring the article it's either usually the Town Administrator or the select board for all these articles so as you go through if you can just tell me which you want to list I will add that into the document tonight while we're going through it is it is go ahead okay so it's I think we started we we started getting a little bit more focused on select board in the last warrant yeah okay so it would be but the finance committee is the one that's reporting on all this correct yeah and that's listed at the bottom in B I see it okay just quick question question have have any of these articles been discussed with the moderator I I know we're opening and closing tonight not yet not yet not yet okay so so we will discuss with the moderator and then we will schedule information sessions for town meeting members yes um article two amended appropriation fiscal year 205 operating budget collective bargaining agreements that's the one that we just voted on you just approved this so this is just moving the funds from Sal Reserve into their respective salary lines yep so it's coming out of town uh the it's coming out of the Sal res human yeah okay all right hold on one second I'm gonna interrupt again sorry um I wrote in the draft in front of you it says on every article the select Bo will report on the article at town meeting if for any of these articles you want to recommend favorable action tonight to have that printed in the warrant please do so okay otherwise it's going to say select will report at meeting so I would be good with doing that would the I got caught in this before has finance committee though waigh in on that first oh no right right right yeah so we'll wait for the finance committee okay right so we'll just have we'll report a town meeting for both select board and finance committee well they might be I think they're meeting tomorrow so they might be able to you know you will be closing the warrant so they won't be able to right okay so we'll report at town meeting so for the first two it's sponsored by select board right okay okay number three approved transfer free cash homeless Foster Care Transportation this is uh this is the school money that falls down and comes to us later on yes and we did check with Department of Revenue and Dy and there's no mechanism to have this automatically given to the school so we will have to do this article right okay so that's select board all right article four final settlement what is this oh J this is Thea okay so article four is the final settlement for uh eminent domain and we need to speak to the finance committee on how we're on this amount right and where we're going to take this amount from yeah it's not even the amount it's not even any M uh do we have a final amount Patrick Amy uh I do not have the final amount um off hand Amy do you have it I do not not so that is why we left a sum of money as the language in there and Amy are we are we bonding this or is this a 2third vote or is this a simple majority 50% plus one how we want to do that that'll depend on the recommendations of the finan it could be bonded or it could be paid with avable funds yeah I know the conversation I had with Sean was to to take this from free cash okay but you know let's hear what the finance committee has to say because the other the other issue we have is um now we have the approval of transfer free cash uh for adjustments to tax rates okay but just can we finish four yeah let this so can we close the warrant without an amount in here yes yes yes okay he has review that an a sum of money is the correct language okay and we're talking about taking this from free cash temporarily but the uh point was that there were other funds coming in eventually that will fall to free cash that will fall to free cash that will actually kind of replenish that correct so this is really a cash flow issue timing issue right cor right however if the finance committee makes a recommendation to not do that that's another opinion on it okay has the finance committee been educated about the select board's vote in this regard um I think the chair was was educated after we had made that vote so I have talked to him a couple times but okay you know I will give him a call in the morning okay all right so are we good to move on yeah okay so now um approve transfer free cash adjustments to tax rates this again we're looking for the recommendation of the finance committee um Amy do you have what is your free cash projection um we got certified at higher than last year so we got s 3.9 you do have over a million available to stay with above the threshold and our issue continues to be keeping the tax rate within within the promised amount uh with the new school yeah Patrick and I had a discussion this morning on the preliminary modeling of the tax rates um but we can start modeling what the recommendation from the finance team will be to keep with the intention of the new school okay so say that back again when so we got we're certified at 3.9 when you certified it 3.98 and we back out article one and then the foster care article and that leaves us over one and a half million to stay within our threshold for the reserve position did you say one and a half million three and a yeah no a one and a half available to stay above the threshold so not actual cash balance but to stay within that 3 to 5% recommended what about the other thresholds that we have in capital stabilization so with General stabilization fund we want to stay between 9 And1 % we're at 9.05 right now M so that's about 39,000 that could be used and then Capital stabilization we're at 1.46 which is 2.02 we want to be between 2 and 4% um so there about a little less than 20,000 there that could be used M but you're saying that with the Free Cash There's basically one and A5 million that can be used to offset offset the tax rates in line with the desire to keep them stable with the new school debt financing yes we we won't need to use that much to stabilize this year based off our preliminary look at the tax rates this morning really and still and still be within the the thresholds for that yes to stick with the recomend of keeping the school to under a dollar a day of Debt Service hitting the new hitting the taxpayers so what so what is that amount Amy that that is what we are still modeling got it can't quite get there yet they know it's not the whole 1.5 but okay no some something below that um Patrick with the money from uh the school the excess money that has to float to the has to float to the bond um when does that actually have to be moved over did you say it was March um we have a a note outstanding on the construction that's maturing in March so when that comes due we'll use any excess msba monies on hand to partially pay that down and then any of the um inflation reduction at money that are received by the maturity date of the note will be put towards that as well and that will that'll end up having a significant well not much of a significant impact but an impact on our Capital how much room we have in there yeah I my My Hope and my hope is that it would pay off the the note um completely so that we wouldn't have to issue any more permanent debt for the school beyond the initial Bond we did in 2022 which is great we may even have um Surplus monies which would get reserved and be used proportionately every year that that bond has outstanding to reduce The Debt Service on the project that's how the state wants us has regulated us to use that inflation reduction act money so we'll stay posted for when that actually comes in because I haven't seen it yet but I know they're working on it okay so we've got to um all right so we'll work with the finance committee on that so article six appropriation for capital projects um the first one on here the auditorium this is uh the 451 now do we have to put out the four the full 4551 957 and then we get a credit back or how how does this work the motion language is most likely going to read that you're authorizing borrowing for the full amount of of the project and then what will happen will be we will only end up borrowing the 252 assuming we receive the incentive that's how we typically appropriate for the projects when we're receiving a you know a reimbursable in Grant we don't necessarily get the incentive upfront um so cash flow okay and on the second one with the design of the senior center rooftop HVAC um I think we need to have a pretty serious conversation about about this because a $50,000 design is going to leave us where versus a $50,000 repair how long will that take us out take us to so um capital is going to get in is Ryan still on here no um Capital has got to get involved in that and I don't has Capital even has Max talked to Capital on this yet that's has not been discussed with the cic they have a meeting scheduled in I want to say like 10 days or two weeks they're going to have a meeting so I'll be sure to bring this before them and get you know their recommendation okay so we should put it on here and then weigh in right yeah so I had a conversation with Max about this and what is a a section of the air conditioning failed at the senior center and he was able to you know get it up and going but he said that the senior center is very vulnerable to it failing again and that it could do a design for the entire space or could just turn around and fix it and it sounded like doing a design for the entire space there were some long-term benefits but also if we just spent the 50,000 to fix it it would get us x amount of years fixed um so they've got a weigh in on that do you want to change it to just say Senior Center rooftop HVAC unit and not design of I mean I don't know how much flexibility yeah a little flexibility I don't know what they need if it's going to be bonded but they can we can change that we we can change we can change that after they look at it but I guess should we change it now or should we change it on the floor of town I think we should change it on the floor we couldn't amend it with a you can amend it on the color piece of paper Mrs Cameron will hand me my warrant okay um so article s where is this word that yeah where did this come from what is this this is the concom article oh that's no there's two of them for con okay okay so these are just basically um articles so that they can have an alternate member and this is what the state uh this is what the state is telling them that they have to do in order to have an alternate voting member correct yes okay is there a reason that we're pushing this through at a special town meeting instead of an annual town meeting yes because they're already con like constrained by the fact that they don't have this available to them now it helps them okay yeah so sooner as better um article nine amend General bylaws uses of land yeah okay is that you Doug is that the Doug article wait where is that this is n back the liaison to the Scott historical commission um I don't have an article n it's just on the back you didn't the other just okay I'll uh yeah I only have the I don't know I so many versions of this thing do you we don't have the bylaw though we just have don't even have the BW oh no I have that Daniel okay no I think we you have this don't you just this little piece on just a little piece yeah yeah yeah yeah I think that's all we all have yes okay so uh quickly as we discussed last time um briefly um you know we continue to try to work with the landowner at uh the Glover property um still not responsive and um so in an attempt to kind of just protect the building um from further damage because there are some holes in the roof and things falling against it Etc um we're trying to figure out creative ways to just take those minor steps to preserve the building um and so there was an attempt to put together and there has been a lot of work between the chair of the historical commission and uh people KP law to draft the bylaw and you know technically in the appropriate way they went back and forth especially over the last couple days to get that bylaw in place uh in a form that is appropriate um so that's what this is about is creating that additional tool um to prevent demolition by neglect of swamp Scott's historically significant structures and buildings okay so u i suggests that we continue to have this on the warrant and in the process of engaging with KP law um we were informed that there is existing Authority within our bylaws and um the uh state code that gives us the power as the select board or the health director or The Building Commissioner but certainly including the select board to order the owner to make necessary preservation repairs we actually already have that power so then why do we need this frankly because this is coming up at like the 11th Hour that we have this power and there are some discussions still going back and forth about whether or not this gives us an increment more Authority than our existing Authority and that this may take a while uh but it might be useful in other properties um so at this very moment I'm recommending that we keep this on the warrant it may be by the time we get to special town meeting that we can indefinitely postpone this because we're assured that there's another route and that I would it's been requ requested that on our next agenda we bring forward very specific language about a vote we could take to order the property owner to make the repairs um and that would then snc into what's allocated for arpa and whether or not we need it or not but that process would as I understand it we could uh vote to order the repairs the owner would have to respond in three days if they don't respond in three days then we could proceed to court and this would be a supposedly um a relatively quick adjudication um of that that would uh Force the repairs to happen okay so when you say Force the repairs to happen so the town would go make the town would then go make the repairs yeah and would we would the town be able to capitalize those costs and attach that as a as a tax lean or something on the property that that is the piece that I believe that is correct uh but as a Nuance that may be the distinction between these two things which is why we're still trying to sort out that detail Fair okay does anybody have any comments I would just like I guess I would just like to understand better as you are trying to you what power we have now how this is different from that and then um the benefit of of having both right I don't think that's part's really clear for me right now but not saying that that means to do anything but keep going full steam ahead but I would like more clarity on that absolutely I'd like some clarity on what's the downside for I mean you I read it and I think there's no downside but that's correct you feel like I I I agree the only downside is you got some additional no bylaw excess that we really never needed because we have all the authority we really need right now that's the only downside so if we do have all the authority okay I got it well I guess the downside would be if a home was ever deemed historically significant and you were the owner of that home and you didn't want to make those repairs that that would be your downside don't talk about for the town no I understand but I'm saying that is a downside that we should acknowledge that obviously we're coming from position of where the town we'd like to save it we'd like to see it live on in its Glory or whatever is left of its glory and the opposite position is their land owner it's theirs they didn't ask for it to be historically significant and if they want it to be in dis repair then that's their prerogative okay okay so it's very thoughtful believe that in there trying to be the balanc approach all right so we're not going to make a vote on this we'll we go over to the um go over to uh capital and fincom and then at our next meeting we'll vote on all the Articles do we have to close the warrant and so now we need to vote to close the warrant make sure it says to attach thees elect sotion okay so can we have a motion to close the warrant and attach our electronic signatures that's all needs sure all in favor second Daniel all in favor I I motion passes unanimously okay now moving down um The Who determining who speaks and on what article we'll do that we can do that next week plenty of time for that it feels like we have plenty of time David but somehow the night before we're always well because we're gonna have one meeting before this happens well you didn't come last time remember you had to do all of them because you were here that meeting before we were like Doug's not here he'll do it y okay let's go on Mission so now uh to the consent agenda do we have just one thing on the consent agenda and we only have we're missing part of the consent Miss on the actual I don't know discussion and possible vote of the approval of the minutes we already pulled out National Grid and then the harbor and Waterfront we pulled out Harbor and Waterfront no the harbor and Waterfront and the minutes are left we pulled out National Grid what did these minutes okay so we pulled out national g so does you know what actually can you pull out the minutes I didn't get a chance to double check those minutes so now we're going to delay the minutes to next time so the only thing we have left on the consent agenda is discussion and possible on the members of the following boards Scott Bernie um my consent agenda it says Ted duly Scott MC Bernie Amy linger Mike gambal John Eng Les okay so can we have a motion to um approve the uh the members for the harbor and Waterfront advisory committee Danielle motion Katie second all in favor discussion oh sorry discussion um I assume based on the comments this evening you have no further thoughts on the matter um you know Doug to put it gently we had a pretty unproductive meeting this past Wednesday the chair and myself at Town Hall and I don't think we're going to see I no matter what and aside from me coming in and saying who would you like me to put I don't think I was going to make any Headway with my suggestions so I still feel strongly about them and I feel strongly that my suggestions are the right thing and that this board this commission committee whatever you want to call it needs change so that is my comment okay so can we take a vote I mean I'm just I'm just I'm just concerned about how we move forward I mean we need we need there needs to be communication and collaboration between the liaison and and between the chair of the committee I'm not sure we have that so I'm I'm really just curious as to how how we move well I think we have to be professional and appropriate David right so I would ask the chair to do that I know I will be and that's how we move forward we're not always going to get along we're not always going to agree but I'm not um I'm not going to back down from what I think is the right thing to do unfortunately I think that the chair has been the chair for a little bit too long in my opinion and needs to understand that his way is not the only way and unfortunately you know over time you will get people that are not that flexible and and collaborative but hopefully that we can develop that maybe maybe that's my hope that going forward we can be professional and adults and still try to get the same things accomplished that that we would on any other board right can can you read the the it was Amy linger and then what were the other two Michael gambal and John and John Les and the first two are reappointments of existing um board members one is here Ted duly um you know and in again my point in reappointing too was not to my intent is not to throw everybody out you know the baby out with the bath water right we want to keep as many as we can but we do need change we we sat at that meeting in August and we clearly heard that change needs to happen it's not always easy it's not always going to be a popular thing um I do feel the fishermen do deserve representation I know that's a controversial thought um perhaps in this town perhaps it's not but you know they do have an interest um they do have concerns and I do feel like they were pretty much ignored I don't feel that's appropriate could I have nominated five of them yes there were more than five fishermen that applied out of the 21 people that did that is not what I'm proposing to do if I were then then you might have a case to say that I have a you know specific agenda or I'm trying to do something UNS which is what the chair has um suggested of me which I find insulting but that's for another day um so no I'm trying to balance it I'm trying to give everybody equal representation um and quite frankly I would like to see the chair um rotated I would like to see somebody else's chair that can be a little bit more collaborative and open to new ideas and dissenting opinion because that is how growth happens and and that is what I think we need um so that is just my professional opinion my observations um but again it's not an easy call I get that it's not a popular call either but nothing worthwhile is easy in my opinion does anyone remember um there were two other people that chair talk about El Williams and Tom poera Tom POA and Al Williams now Al Williams I spoke to he was actually here the night that the fisherman's Alliance showed up to speak and Al Williams said to me I'm happy with any fisherman being appointed not necessarily himself the chair spoke tonight that he preferred him because his I don't know family was named after the something or other that that did that doesn't come into play for me that wasn't something I considered when I was deciding who could be on there Mike Gali has been on there before he mentioned that as well so he's got a historical perspective as well as a fisherman's perspective um John Les is on there and he as he mentioned he is a member of the yacht club as well as a fisherman so I thought that served a purpose right he incorrectly characterized me as saying um that I think there are too many yacht club members on the board I never said that I don't feel that way obviously I'm putting one up that I know full well you know two actually that I know are on the yacht club so yes Mar he characterized you as well sure um I've said it you said it said sorry you said it there you go so I didn't um you know Tom poia I've had multiple back and forths with Tom poia I know him very well he approached me on the beach the summer and told me he wanted to be on the committee and also told me you know why and how many how he knew Jackson and Jackson's son and this that the other and again that didn't come into play for me I I really intended to put fishermen on this committee that was my my goal I completely honest about it I'm not making any bones about it I feel like they deserve a spot and Amy linger I I don't know Amy linger very well I spoke to her I interviewed her completely neutral party to me seemed like someone that had no real interest other than wanting to help IM mediate you know she attended that meeting in August with 40 other people that had concerns about how it's been running so I think change could be good here but it's going to be hard it's not going to be easy okay so can we take a vote now well actually we are going to take a vote now all right so all in favor Katie hi oh we're taking a roll we're gonna take a roll call Vote Yes please Katie in favor marel I'm in favor David no Doug um it's not an answer we can come back to you Danielle yes Doug yes okay so that is four to one motion carries now we we move to the town would you like do we want to have the town administrators report do you want to take that down do you think you could do it quickly I'm going to do it very quickly go in the interest the time all due respect to the rest of the departments in town I'd like to acknowledge the police department probably saw it in the newspaper last Sunday Ranna Nicole and Angelica formed an all female Patrol shift this is a historic person swamp Scot y i I bet it's pretty historic in the state in the state that's that's it that's all that's all you're reporting everything else the most important you're going to hit the most well very very good we like that 30 seconds I skipped the public works department um this this just so this report is also online will be online too onl okay okay great so uh with that then can I have a motion to adjourn no no select John I'm so sorry I'm tired select board time can I speak on of course oh my God you know what wait one second we're just going to do select board time and then I'm going to put you right in there okay all right I have not I sued my time I'm going to yes so am I yeah I just just just really quickly uh just to follow up on Gino's Point um I did I did notice that we had an all female Patrol staff I thought that was did you pulled over no I no I didn't get pulled over uh marielen but uh I I do think it was um I thought it was I thought it was awesome I applauded it uh I think it it just shows how far we've come since we've left civil service uh I think you know two years ago we had you know we had members of the department talking about how we needed to change hiring practices a year ago we stood here and we we swore in I believe uh seven police officers and three uh three firefighters and uh and now we have this news I would love to get an update from our police chief and our fire chief about these hiring practices and and and just a general update um on a future agenda so absolutely I think that would be uh I think that would be awesome absolutely awesome thank you sir ma' Tom Kelly six manura Street swamps good all right so uh first of all I wanted to I know that his name was mentioned but vssl Mike Sweeney was he on today at all because this is a pretty important thing for the veterans right and uh when it comes to uh swamp Scott and Lynn we have a very symbiotic relationship uh all the veteran services for swamps cut veterans like myself go through Lyn um you know so having him here I think would have probably been uh rather important uh that's what it says on the website Anway veteran services for town of swamp Scott residents go through the veteran services department of ly uh it's clear to me that from tonight's discussion uh this is not veterans housing we're talking about uh it's a lowincome housing but with strong veteran preferences so uh you're you're going to build this place and possibly level a VFW right now that I'm going to go into some uh some information on and put veterans in this house that will discuss the low income portion also that aren't going to be able to get to the other side of town if we end up moving it if if you don't put a place inside that can hold 20 to 30 people, 1500 sare ft it's questionable uh with all with everything you need need and then move the by the way it's a VFW allegian and department or a disabled American uh veterans which I'm a member of all three so uh you move that to the other side of the town now you've just put these guys into housing here and how are they going to get over there other than us swinging around and getting them when they say they want to uh and it's not about drinking it's about socializing uh to to give you a little bit more information about the VFW I have some of these spaces down at the VFW so I appreciate that uh it is three organizations pulled together to keep eye on Veterans because it's not always that veterans at are at the Forefront of people everyone has their own problems that they have to solve so uh we try and take care of each other um we have the strongest social uh group that I've ever seen at a BFW uh I've been in several vfw's I go to them every time because like we talked about earlier it's a comfortable place for a veteran to go and know that he's either surrounded by people that have walked my path or are friends of the people that have walked the path and our social group that we have that are non-veterans have been an unbelievable addition to the BFW uh so you have your veterans and you have the non- veterans there uh that helps to give that swamp and Lynn Community a better feel for each other okay uh if you level that building not you but if this building is leveled and one two three years goes by until we have a place for that we have now killed something that took 20 years to develop a a a great bond between uh the veterans within each other and also the uh social community that we have coming to that building so um I don't think it's a horrible idea to say um keeping that building is the BFW that was promised because now if you do truly intend to have veterans in that housing they have a simple walk over to people that have walked the same steps that they have uh I you know I honestly am grateful to you guys for your volunteerism and what you're doing right now uh realize that once the draft ended everyone that you're going to meet that was in the military was a volunteer also so uh volunteerism in the community uh federally state is is very important um Miss Martin Epstein mentioned that uh there will be onsign veteran services on-site veteran services I noticed that $93,600 were allocated in the uh budget from swampit for veteran services is that money going into this did that money already go into this is it shared with Lynn because Lynn is the one that takes care of our veteran services so these are all questions that are circling in my head I don't have the answer to I I I don't even uh I don't expect you to have it either but uh it's it's something that that I think about when I'm looking at our on what what's online and what's being said uh in in this community so um I I guess to wrap it up uh I'm well over any three minute type of uh limit here but to wrap it up what do you want swampit to be uh in five years 10 years 20 years uh in my neighborhood we we're already starting to take hits we have a single family and two family dwellings and uh Miss iolo was here today and and you could tell that uh uh affordable housing versus more housing uh has driven a thought process in swampit that allows us to waver eight items to put in a six condo house on a single family uh lot so as this continues and we continue to break down the mechanisms that make swamps get great that brings Community together what are you going to see in our town what is our town going to be in five years 10 years 20 years all right uh so I I would just like to end with that from unless anyone else wants to talk about the BFW post the American Legion Post or the uh Disabled American Veterans um I'd just like to end on that so that it's in the Forefront tonight after this very very long day I appreciate your efforts in this once again uh but something to think about as you drive home thank you Mr KY thank you thank you is there anyone else that would like to speak okay so can I have a motion to adjourn so move I will second the motion oh she beat you it's all yours ajour shall we vote Yes yes yes yes