##VIDEO ID:ybTE1jYIUpI## okay um thank you for joining us at the select board meeting January 22nd 2025 and this meeting is being recorded um before we start I just want to um thank Nate Bim Nathan Kent and Joe duette for taking care of uh the video and the production here tonight and we have some special guests to lead us in the Pledge of Allegiance so if you could join our special guest from Big Blue Bargains um for the Pledge of Allegiance okay ready I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all okay so would you could you um take a moment and introduce yourselves to us my name is Ellie my name is Maxi my name is Penny Penny Penny and do we have somebody else here who's that Ben we have Ben well thank you very much for coming and uh saying the pledge allegiance we really appreciate that thank you you can come back again in two weeks if you'd like all right okay so now we are going to read the proclamation and Adoption of our January 27th 2025 International Holocaust Memorial Memorial Day let's just see if I find that do you have it hold on one second want me to read yeah that'd be great okay thank you whereas the town of swamp Scott will never forget the events of the Holocaust and the million of Jew millions of Jewish and other minority groups who suffered and died during the most tragic genocide in modern history and whereas anti-semitic Semitic incidents continue to increase in the United States once reaching an all-time high in 2021 with a total of 2,717 incidents of assault harassment and vandalism reported to the Anti-Defamation League whereas since the Hamas Massacre on the Jewish State on October 7th 2023 the ADL has recorded an unprecedented rise in vandalism harassment and ass assault directed at Jews and Jewish institutions whereas this year on International Holocaust Remembrance Day January 27th 2025 we commemorate the 80th anniversary of the liberation of AIS berken now death camp and whereas honoring the victims and survivors begin with our renewed recognition of the value and dignity of each person it demands from us the courage to protect the persecuted and speak out against bigotry and hatred and whereas on this anniversary we recommit ourselves to combating the global R in anti-Semitism and the evil that threatens not only those of Jewish faith but those of all faiths and backgrounds and whereas recent acts of hate and swamp Scott serve as a painful reminder of Our obligation to condemn and combat Rising anti-Semitism in all its forms including the denial or trivialization of the Holocaust and whereas this anniversary is an opportunity to reflect on the progress we have made confronting this terrible chapter in human history and on our continuing efforts to end genocide and whereas the definition of anti-semitism reads as follows anti-Semitism is a certain perception of Jews which may be expressed as hatred towards Jews rhetorical and physical manifestations of anti-Semitism are directed towards Jewish or non-jewish individuals Andor their property toward Jewish communities institutions and religious faculties and now therefore on behalf of the entire select board we do hereby Proclaim January 27th 2025 as Holocaust Memorial Day in the town of Swampscott Massachusetts and encourage all faith-based and nonprofit organizations residents businesses and public institutions to acknowledge honor and value Jewish people's historic and current contributions locally and Beyond while also recognizing the ongoing and interconnected struggles of all Jewish communities locally and Beyond at witness hereof we have unto set our hands and caused to be affixed this Great Seal of the town of Swampscott massachusetts's 22nd day of January 2025 thank you Katie okay so now we're going to um what we're going to do is we'll move to public comment I just have to set actually can you take care of the um the timer sure not a problem so we're GNA move to um public comment and I just have to remind everybody it's a it's three minutes and what we'll do is is 15 seconds before the 3 minutes we'll just give you a little bit of a heads up okay we want everybody to get there three minutes in and um and also remember for people who aren't aware the select board does not respond to public comment and in public comment you can say whatever you want you can read um whatever someone else wrote for you you can whatever it is it's you feel comfortable and you do your public comment so um is there anyone here for public comment Brian Watson oh and please state your name and address um Brian Brian Watson um in light of the three minute limit I'm going to just quickly read two or three sentences I know that um tonight you'll be talking about the formation of a committee for the horon site so just a couple of uh reminder thoughts that I'm sure you've got in your minds um when the committee's uh created it will be important that the committee is committed to a clear open and logical process and sequence of tasks that both assist and educate the town's people regarding that very process the goal being to follow a process that includes developing and diagramming a number of a number of simultaneous plans four five six seven we don't know how many but they'd all be possible options and those plans would portray a variety of solutions to the site the committee would assist the town in evaluating the various plans comparing them to each other and assessing the plans for their various pros and cons every plan will have things to recommend it and every plan would have things that could be viewed as disadvantageous the idea ultimately is that the town will settle on a plan eventually that it thoroughly understands and that embodies a smart combination of properties and characteristics it will be important that the committee members selected for the committee want to follow such a sort of deliberative process rather than endorsing any particular plan uh at least in this in the initial exploratory phases eventually it would be only natural that committee members might toward the end develop a plan that they like but but for the first stages when the town is being brought through a series of plans you know say there's eight plans on a board the committee has has to be an honest broker uh in evaluating each plan uh you know putting aside personal preferences or what have you we've got to we've got to measure each plan by a common yard stick establish the pros and cons of each plan and and so forth and then democracy will start to take over when it's ready to take over and people are are are informed about each plan and can then uh the town can start to you know focus in on on on a plan it likes um but I think I think the committee has to be an honest broker at least initially for a wide variety of plans let's let's look at all the options that that that are possible and viable and uh and then and then slowly uh go through a process that weeds them into you know one or two options so I just wanted to state that that process is important for the for the committee to execute uh we we we don't want to repeat of you know what happened two years ago where the process really was was not logical it wasn't deliberative one of the nice things about not having a consultant seconds okay one of the nice things about not having a consultant is we won't have the the Consultants hourly clock ticking so we can take our time we can go through the plans and make sure we've done due diligence on every plan thank you Mr Watson Rachel hi Rachel tadash 71 middle sex AV I'm also here with um Laura Lynn Hannah provance Katie carolly and uh our big boo bargain children this is five of our 13 children that we have between the four of us so um we came tonight because we wanted to talk to you um as we have many times if you we are from the board members for big blue Bargains if you haven't heard of big blue Bargains we are a local 501c3 nonprofit thrift store um we were started in 2012 we're staffed entirely by volunteers and all of our profit goes back to the community about 10 months ago just after we learned that we would have to evacuate our property on Humphrey Street um we came here and asked the public in the select board to help us find a new location for big blue Bargains since then countless members of the community reached out to us to show their support and suggest locations Doug David and Danielle each made a point to find board members during Town Hall summer concerts and movies we saw Katie at sporting events and Mariel and at farmers markets every single one of you let us know how important it was for you to help us find a way to open uh David and Max Casper met with us to tour possible locations at the old Clark school and after discussions with David and Mary Ellen we agreed that the Clark Portables were the right fit with the approval of the school committee we've found our new home we're here tonight to thank all of you the select board the school committee and each member of our wonderful Community who supported us volunteered shopped or donated items we're excited to announce that our grand opening will be February 1st from 9: to 1 our sign is up and we are excited to see you at5 norfol AV the Clark portals thank you very exciting thank you Ben did you want to talk are you resent comment okay okay Katie Arrington just for clarification this is the only time for public comment okay uh good evening I'm Katie Arrington 40 Roy Street to be prepared for this discussion over a week ago I asked for the town to provide me with any any opinions from Town Council regarding the citizens petition I filed in November I'm told that such opinions are public documents I receive nothing in response to my request I'm not surprised after all it's taken the board about seven weeks to even acknowledge a citizen's petition signed by over 200 residents I'm confident that any legal opinion will tell you that you can call a special town meeting at any time but the more I think about it the clearer it is that this is not a legal discussion so I'll leave the legal discussions to you and others this is simply about what's doing what's right so I'm here to ask you to do what the right thing by calling a special town meeting there is nothing Stopping You Tonight from calling a special town meeting you can rationalize not voting for a town meeting based on any legal technicality or any reason you like nothing you can say tonight however changes the right thing to do is to call a special town meeting for the first time in decades the select board has a Citizens petition signed by more than 200 residents if the select board did nothing wrong in its votes stripping the VFW from the Pine Street project then there's nothing to fear about scheduling a town meeting I've always always found town meeting to be fair-minded Tonight Show residents you are also fair-minded please do the right thing thank you thank you ktie Arrington Mr Smith good evening uh before I begin I just want to say say thank you guys for having us tonight um and I want to pull my full support for Mr Cresta as our next Town Administrator um I believe that he is the right choice and has my full support as well as many others um so Frank Smith Archer Street since June of last year this board has held more than nonpublic executive sessions than public meetings when public meetings are held they are often relatively brief and contain little actual debate or discussion most times when it comes to a vote on a matter appears the majority of the select board these days most often select boards feel in Leonard and Fletcher are magically on the same page with each other and little or no dialogue seems to have occurred you have to ask stop and ask yourself why when others including members of the select board recently raised the issue of the large number of executive sessions in The Limited public discussion select board member Leonard called such complaints and I quote sorry kids still here her words not mine I disagree with that sentiment but it does seem to represent the feelings of the chair and others if there is little to no discussion where do these discussions happen in non-public executive sessions outside of meetings we don't know because the select board has not released the minutes of these over 20 Executive sessions since late June because not much has happened publicly with the select board these days I think we should know what is happening outside the Public's eye therefore for the first time in my life in November I filed a public records request with the town clerk asking for records of communications by and between chairwoman Fletcher members of the select board and the Town Administrator at the time in response the town took extraordinary step of asking Massachusetts Secretary of State for permission to charge me $725 to get this information the Secretary of State rejected this request even so the town still required me to pay 325 to get this information very public information that's a lot of money especially for a school teacher teaching in a public school such as myself I paid the amount of money anyways because something had gone very wrong with the select board each one of you the current chair more so than anyone else ran on a platform of transparency and Community involvement does anyone besides me see the irony that I cannot even pay to get transparency about a lack of transparency over 60 days and 325 later I still do not have a single document from the town not a single document I received an email on December 17th I'm about 10 seconds away stating that the requested documents were in Hand of Town Council for review and I would have them in about 10 days here we are still no files only more questions in these documents so now I ironically enough I continue to wait for the request for transparency to be fulfilled while the files I requested and paid for are specifically and methodically redacted thank you have to see the problem here what you are doing is wrong thank you Mr Smith and while I appreciate everything that you guys do I really do as volunteers for this town thank you I really do thank you Mr Smith thank you but this needs to be addressed and the problem needs to be resolved thank you Mr Smith we need transparency thank you Mr Smith Mr RR good evening Kevin Rene Precinct 5 um I'm here just to comment briefly and directly quickly about the petition that is under discussion uh by the two previous residents ahead of me first off I'd like to say that I'm speaking for myself most importantly but it has also been brought to my attention that others were have feel uh felt the same way that I do most importantly the thing that I'm most frustrated about with this petition is the details the details weren't presented to all of those who signed and the actions with that with the information led to a form of Deceit it was frustrating because when we put our names to something we ALS o put our uh ideas reputations and our not just that but our families as we as we go through this I feel it's important now as we discuss this because at no time was it ever mentioned about a special town meeting when the petitions were presented um albe it very important I think at this moment a special town meeting would be a waste of money where we have one coming a regular town meeting just a few weeks away it also leads to a problem it leads to a problem that we are now trying to pit policy versus property what are we really looking at here what's the discussion for we know what we're dealing with we've elected you all to be the representatives of us you won the elections fairly you've moved forward you've enacted you have the responsibility that's been stowed upon you that we have put you in that place I think that should have some value and know that you are all doing your best to to move with that value I feel that this petition should be re-evaluated I feel that it should be looked at how many of others like myself might be willing to come forward if they want to speak up and say what information was this what was I signing because I didn't get that information I feel that the meeting should be canceled or postponed please re-evaluate this petition and do know that there are a majority of us that did not get all of the information regarding what the petition intended thank you thank you Mr arene Miss Arrington I'm not recognizing you you already you don't care so Arrington 40 Roy Street M Arington the petition is literally one sentence you we deserve transparence the petition is literally one sentence I'm sorry if someone didn't realize what it said and can't read Arington please sit down May no well yeah she she makes the rules this isn't an attack on people and what they presented and what they didn't this is attack in the methodology the details behind it I'm not going to get into the semantics and how it was presented to me but I know in the conversation that was taken place outside a place of worship where it was in a in a vulnerable situation what was presented in the sentences that were expressed what the petition was for okay that's all I have thank you thank Mr Barbera Depetro 94 Eastman Avenue Precinct 2 I did sign that petition as did my husband regarding the VFW Post um property at that time I believed we had enough information to make an informed decision and I found out later as Kevin has so well outlined that I did not have all of that um however I never thought that this would trigger um a special town meeting and I agree I don't think that we need to spend the money to have a special town meeting just for this there's a town meeting coming up if that's what they want to do but that's it and I'd like to thank Gino for flooding Abbott Park one of my f I lived on middle sex Avenue we spent all day there my kids we lived across the street at my mom's house and my my kids spent all day there and my grandkids went there first skating there so thank you thank you Mrs Dutro is there anyone else here for Resident comment okay seeing none we will move to the town administrator's report okay before I begin My Town Administrator report I'd like to request a moment of silence the two swamps good individuals that recently passed away first off Heidi Sher to quote reard post Heidi was the leading light of our organization a truly individual and an inspirational leader my condolences to David and his children secondly Frank defiz Frank was a legendary baseball coach who amassed over 400 wins while coaching the big blue Frank was also a football coach and a mentor to hundreds of young men some of you have seen it if not there was a great article on Coach D feliz's accompl accomplishments in Monday's daily Daily Item for those those who may have missed it my condolences to Mrs d f and her family thank you thank you Gina okay Town administrative report we've reached an agreement with The UU Church The UU church is willing to let swamp scut Elementary School staff use their parking lot I believe it's 60 parking spaces in exchange for snow removal services by the town the costs minimal will be out there plowing in the area anyways to swing around the corner I don't think it's going to be much of an expense had preliminary meetings with the tri chair school committee myself Mary alen Glen pasta superintendent angelakis Amy to start working on the preliminary school budget thank you Amy again for your help with that as always finished up the 20 2025 expectation meetings with all the department heads went very well everybody's on board um may have been some confusion about when we're going to be going opening up on Fridays since I knocked on the door on Friday February 3rd Monday February 3rd 11 700 am to 12 8:00 p.m. to 12 p.m. had a meeting with the Clair view representatives to get an update on their due diligence progress uh having well initiating talks with mission on the bay regarding the seaw wall repairs that's ongoing I met with lynw and so representatives to discuss construction of a wh wall inside the Stacy Brook covet the were wall will be necessary if the town moves forward with the UV pilot program hope to have an update on by next select boy meeting all right Kings Beach we will be opening the bids for phase 2A of the Stacy Brook sewer system Rehabilitation project on January 30th estimated value of that project is $2.5 million special thanks to the DPW staff for their efforts and another great job with the snow removal over the weekend I would also like to thank Diane Mari who reached out to me over the weekend to assist with getting out some information on social media regarding the snow emergency thank you Diane The Mall Street outfall sua infrastructure improvements project is moving along as scheduled and grenes and Sun have two to three weeks left remaining on the sewer main replacement and then we'll transition over the CIP Rehabilitation Finance continue to meet almost daily with Amy on the FY 26 budget development Amy is continuing to meet with department heads to review their preliminary budgets again thank you Amy Patrick has been meeting with the capital Improvement Committee in school department stakeholders for their 20 FY 26 Capital requests things are moving along pretty good I believe there's two more meetings scheduled one for tomorrow at 11: a.m and then a subsequent meeting the following Thursday to wrap up the department heads requests and we'll be sitting down with our team to finalize the request Community Development Mazy Mary Ellen and I met with representative armini in state staff to discuss support for infrastructure projects around the hady Kings Beach Fisherman's Beach and the like let's move on to facilities building department I guess uh receive bids for the auditorium lightting project Joe's happy with that town clerk is working working on getting new software for street lights and dog licenses he also recently mailed out the annual census I think that's due the end of the month Police Department made plans uh with a shat event last Sunday where there were over 300 attendees Police Department is reviewing all policies and proed procedures for and Pac accreditation many re revisions to approve all right Health Department continuing to work on the FI 26 budget with Amy collected annual data for textile recycling combined we collected over 21,000 Pounds of textiles that's almost 11 tons that we kept out of the solid waste system Human Resources continue to meet with the apartment heads to discuss the 2025 expectations things are going well Recreation Department is in the process of putting together their summer programs on the website and planning upcoming townwide events and finally Senior Center is busy planning the next conference for March 22nd this will be on retirement details will follow and Senior cater is also working with the room of color at the high school for a new black history month program the library opened up the bids for the library entrance entrance redesign with Max gasa does anybody have any questions so I have a question J sure um so the uyu church agreement for snow removal so that is all that that we're paying in exchange for what how how many parking spots in what parking lot is it that lower lot yeah it's the one lot closest to the elementary school the back they you know how many spots there are off the top for some reason I heard 60 I think it's between 40 and 60 between 40 and 60 wow so we don't have they don't have to pay anything for it you're just just to plow it just the cost of plowing and we have to ensure the lot as well under our policy so there's a minimal Fe related to that it's similar to what we did when we used St when we used St John's for the blay school okay oh okay okay great so that'll take relief off off with the teachers right yeah are you finished Daniel yeah um yeah go ahead David uh no just does that address all the parking concerns for all for all teachers and faculty at at swamp at the swamp Scot elementary school that's my understanding yes so like events and stuff like people can use it you know when parents or whatever are going in and like is it that same can they use that lot then do you know or that I'm not sure of okay yep okay I would have to look again at the agreement I don't know if it's just during school hours that the L can be used because that is how the easement is like we can only use the easement during school hours plus or minus an hour on each side okay so I wouldn't be surprised if it was similar but I I don't recall off the top of my head okay because I didn't see it but I don't yeah I saw that but I didn't see like where they spoke to well I would think if you reached out to The UU and yeah I think it's great I mean I didn't know it was even hope that they would be fine with that um hold on a second is this it ins I have insurance beverage seven and four on evenings of school days until 8:30 p.m. oh great wow okay awes even better and I had a question too about the Lynn water sewer situation so where where is where does it stand at this point you're refering conversations the discussions between swamp Scott and Lyn where are we at so we're talking about the UV pilot program yeah so we're making some Headway with them the latest estimate they came up with which increased by over $200,000 from the initial estimate is now $700,000 okay we're working with lind's doing the majority of the work right now because they have contractors on board we need to have a Mason on board electrical contractor few others but they have a general contract that we met with the pilot is going to be set up in swamps scut so it's going to be two trailers it's a trailer that's going to treat it send it back but then we're also going to need a generator to keep everything running we're working on the noise in attenuation now because we know we got to keep it under so there's a little bit of work ahead of us but they're looking to have the city of Al anyways a town hall Summit to discuss what is going on with both Lenn and swamp Scot residents when will they have all the information so that it can be brought to the board yeah so as I explain to the mayor Lyn we're looking for at least what I perceive the select board is looking for is a recommendation from the water sewer infrastructure advisory committee not sure they weren't going to be able to make a vote on that tonight because they don't have the firm numbers we have asked kleinfelder to firm up that $700,000 number because in a matter of months it jumped from 500 to 700 so before I could bring that to you all I want to make sure we have a firm number to know what we're getting into for okay and and do we have a location yeah right right now the location for this is in swamps Scot on Humphrey Street on the other side of the Triangular Grass Island so we didn't want to put it on linshaw drive or it's actually Humphrey Street on that side as well so it'll be on the other side we'll probably lose a bus stop and parking but it would still maintain two line Lanes of traffic and public sa is evaluating just for Sight lines and and just Public Safety in general yeah actually we haven't brought them on board but I will make sure that we do so so where exactly is that can you give me a landmark like yep so if you're coming heading from like to town hall heading down towards linshaw drive and you wanted to take a right on Easter a yeah take a right on Easter a and there's a stop sign right there yeah but it's right there on the right hand side of that trap at the island okay are there houses there is there like Butters or yeah there's five houses on the other side of Humphrey Street okay so will they have so what's really important is that the long-term costs and the you know what are the chances of whether or not this is going to work I mean if it's a gamble it's a gamble at least we you know I think many people are going to be good with taking a gamble but we also need to know let's just say it does work right what what is after that what are the numbers after that what are you what is being prescribed for where you want to put something I mean I think to to for us to really sit and get supportive of this there's a lot of information that needs to be addressed yeah I don't think a lot of those questions are going to be be able to be answered especially with the location of a permanent treatment plan if we were to go that way I know there's been one proposed location and I'm not so sure that location is desirable right now I can I can I'll I'll be clear right here I I will not be a vote for that location in that little neighborhood so Katie um yeah I just want to make sure for the um for the pilot it is a three-month period right and it's during the summer months absolutely so I want to make sure that we've evaluated that location that's been suggested for the pilot for how its effect on the neighbors um because it's not just noise but I mean if they have a porch and they look out at the beach every day now they're looking at this so we should be having a serious conversation about if understanding that that could work um just you know a cost benefit analysis of if it should be there and then if if it's determined by water sewer or us or anybody that it it needs to be there for lack of another source or something that we have an open dialogue with the abuts and the other members of that neighborhood just to so that that they understand that you know that it's a 3-month period what its purpose is how it will affect potentially the reopening of Kings Beach Etc so that they um really understand what it's there for agreed okay yep and has there been any talk of any other spot or is that really the well the pilot pretty much has to go down close to the ocean right because what we're doing is catching it at the end treating and then sending it right back out right so if we've pretty much identified the spot we're the end of January right I I think the summer is going to come up way quicker than anybody knows and I feel like we haven't really done any Outreach to the people that live near where we're proposing this right so I think that has got to be the top of the priority list right right so we can do that and that's part of what the town hall is going to be about there going to be representatives from Lyn swamps and the state delegation to explain and answer questions as best as we can Doug yeah I I think we yeah the $700,000 is just the beginning um it's going to cost $700,000 for a pilot how much is it going to cost to actually operate this thing yeah well the operational costs are unknown but the estimate that client Felder gave us back was I think between five and10 million to construct the facility I think we need to really have I I think we need some serious information and you know we've made that clear to the to the mayor um I think if asking this board for support we have to have serious information I think step one is to find out if the pilot or the UV treatment is going to work right right well step one we're never going to know till we try it right I mean in theory I don't know I mean that's a big that's a big you're I mean yeah it's everybody's point a large gamble if we don't know we have no other choice do we or well yeah other choices fixing the pipes yeah yeah but this is meant to run parallel with fixing the pipes so but we'll but we'll fixing the pipes alone solve the problem right probably not yeah I think we've talked about that a lot but we are making unbelievable progress see the condition outs that we're not talking about Stacy BKE right now but the pipes that we've replaced up on Greenwood a millet Road Aspen Road that were just deteriorated raw way just going into the ground right and I guess that's you know neglect over the years so we have to fix the pipes regardless what um I remember over the summer asking for the health department to update or do something about give us more information about the rat situation I haven't heard anything and what where do we stand with that what has anything I mean have you heard anything from Jeff or I haven't but I think Diane's raising her hand right now now sorry get us and I believe next meeting okay just so when you are bringing a presentation if just we just really want to know what are the actual actions the town is taking the actions the town is taking to correct it not the presentation we've had in the past or the homeowners but um what is the town actually doing right understand I mean I know we asked about it over the summer David asked about it recently like I just it's been crickets I haven't heard a thing and I think I mean from what I've heard from people it's still a very big issue for a lot of residents so thank you I I do want to just ask I want to go back to this um the pilot program again so what we're talking about here is the possibility of getting a a pilot together let's just even say it's a million million and um and then what what are we thinking as far as long-term costs and how would we Finance those long-term costs right and the chances you don't have to give these are the questions that are going to have to be addressed and what are the chances because um you know in the conversations I had with Shan um I think there were a number of things being addressed that how many days would uh would the UV really be able to be used I mean I just want to make sure we have all this information to make a good decision so we can get that for you thank you different topic yeah um Clear View can you say a little bit more yes up there so they reached out to me because they knew there was a little transition in management here and they wanted to meet with me we went had nice lunch together you you for your own right I paid I paid for everyone how's that was in a very productive Mee and I thought um they're doing due diligence right now I think the due diligence period is set to expire on February 28th they may be coming back to us for a two week extension they said they lost a little bit of time with the holidays and the new years which I agree I don't think the two weeks would be a big deal but I'll leave that up to everyone else but I think we're moving along they also asked for M to bring a Resturant restaurant tour to the meeting and that I think was very productive very productive so what is the next anyone remember what what exactly happens at the end of due diligence they have to say we want to proceed proce yeah they locked in uh they they still have the ability during their due diligence period if I remember correctly to um terminate correct um based on their findings um so we probably hear an assessment now of the remediation costs right that would probably be what I would suspect yeah is there a deposit do at that time I can't recall but yeah there is it seems like that would be likely I'll have to look at review the LDA and I can report back next week if I mean two in two weeks if that's helpful or [Music] email I'll talk closer so we don't have to do that briefly uh seall like are we ever going to see that thing fixed or is it just we are definitely going to see that fixed okay yep we're gonna um have to reach out to their engineer I'll do that tomorrow they brought forward three proposals for us on how to fix it and naturally they want to do the cheapest one is to pretty much leave the rip wrap there and put some revetments on the side of it but I'm not so sure that's in the best interest the swamp's got so does that something you bring back here or how do how does that work in terms of oh I'd be happy to bring but I'm just well I think conserv they've been they've been before conservation Committee in the past and I would think that and I believe the state making and put a 5 foot walkway around the building so that's part of it so Tony Tony is uh pushing to get all those meetings going any other questions um the only thing I want to double check on is on the srf loans yes uh I keep asking about that just to make sure we're in the queue and we're ready to put in our applications yep oh they applications in we have one application in for now but as we're going to we're going to keep having to put in srf who handles that is that klefi that's been handling a forest should we be handling it in housee ourselves with our own engineer we could um I'm not sure he may be ready for that client fell does that provides that service free to us okay with the understanding that if they get that loan we're going to be giving them the engineering work so I just uh I'm just a little I I would like to start looking I mean are we we do a lot of business with kleinfelder and I'm just I think it's time to also reevaluate I mean it might be a great a great decision but maybe we should be looking at all aspects here yep okay we have the new assistant engineer looking at all the contracts oh great that's good any other questions I have one one more um I think I had asked a couple meetings ago about just a list of open position positions in town hall and um the status of how long they've been open um if we could just get something along those lines that would be great I'll get that you I think thank you we just posted a new one this morning to oh nice Building Commissioner oh yes yesterday yeah okay we're all set with questions um now let's talk about the search committee oh hold on no I'm sorry Amy Amy's gonna be the search committee so hold on let get my okay so we have Amy sorrow giving us the six month update and I'll share it I got it hello everyone um so this is the second quarter or Midway through the fiscal year update um skip this agenda so just at a very very very high level we're at 48% recognized of our Revenue estimates and 47% expended of our general fund expenditures I figured before I start to get into the weeds I might as well Tarantino it a little bit can you just I just have a quick question historically we are at this number generally a little bit below on our estimates for for at at at this point in the year right because yeah usually we're always below 50% at revenue for this time of year one of our large local receipts is the 2 and a half million for mot vehicle excise and that first commitment goes out in February to be due in March so third quarter is when we really see that get recognized um so it it would actually be a remarkable well above estimate year to be at or above 50% at this point in the year um realistically we if everything was on target we 46% at this point so we're a little above Target um likewise it would not be an anomaly to see our expenditures above 50% because we do have some large items that get paid upfront such as the pension obligation um our insurance premiums and a lot of our debt payments now to get a little more into lued so our Revenue much like last quarter our meals and rooms taxes are performing well overestimate um R's taxes specifically we didn't go up on our estimate on that significantly um even though we did increased the actual percentage that uh was voted at to meeting so we are already 168% recognized of the full estimate for this year so that's been well above what we had had anticipated um our cannabis sales tax is trending higher so as I stated last month we had kind of assumed that with both cannabis shops being online that maybe they would cannibalize each other and that didn't happen so the sales revenues are trending higher they're about 34,000 over where we anticipated them to be at this point um short-term rentals are about 7500 over and just a notation that our motor vehicle excise is in March so please don't be concerned about that 14% number uh before I continue is there any questions on Revenue those are the highlights what's the low light those are the highlights um the low L is nothing yet okay good um in terms of projection we are you know and it might just be because we don't have a Building Commissioner to fill me in on what's in the pipeline right now but at this point we're estimating that maybe our building permits are not going to hit estimate this year um and that's kind of our big item that we're watching at this point okay so hopefully you know things will continue we'll hit it I'll know a lot better as the month progresses um I would like to also uh point out that we have a couple items that were not originally budgeted for um so part of our miscellaneous is uh our treasur collector Patrick cludy did a great job uh going out and you know collecting some past due taxes and some fines and forfeitures and that is in that non-recurring miscellaneous Revenue so um inclusive in that we have uh over $200,000 in completely unanticipated Revenue so way to go Patrick right good well um on the expenditure side I the the same the same items I feel like I am saying continuously so our legal line is trending over it is projected to be over if things continue throughout the year as it has been um likewise on January 2nd of this year after doing a quick estimate Midway through the year of projection and meeting with uh Town Administrator Cresta we had to freeze the police and fire budgets because if they continued at the five week average of overtime that they were at plus normal payroll they would far exceed their budgets um anywhere from2 200 to $400,000 this year so we have Frozen the budgets of both Chiefs at the early beginning of this month um Gino and I have a meeting bi-weekly going over overtime numbers we also have meetings with both of the Chiefs to really drill in and Hammer home that they need to come in at appropriation um I will obviously keep you updated on that and then like I mentioned at the beginning just a notation that the majority of our debt pension payments and stuff are made at the beginning of the year so in that debt service line and employee benefits line towards the bottom those are normally this high at this time of year yes um Amy so just looking at the legal liability insurance uh line is that mostly legal or is that liability and additionally like can we get more granular information on those legal expenses which seem to have jumped from fiscal from from actual 22 to actual 23 and have just sort of leveled off uh well in excess of that that that actual 22 yes would you like a breakdown just by which Council it was or do you want it broken down by subject matter I have both if you have both that would be most helpful please I think subject matter is really helpful to understand like if we had certain projects happening in those years why we would exceed the budget um based on those projects yeah I'm I'm just concerned that we're at 100 we're we're over we're over our our revised budget item at as of 1231 with six months to go and numerous projects and normal Town business yeah absolutely mhm no that is no problem I'll have that to you by the end of the week thank you absolutely do I have any other questions yeah what about the insurance the insurance it's the the legal and insurance line item yes so our property Casualty Insurance that one is fully expended so that's at 100% we do pay those premiums on July 1st do we do we budget for it at its correct dollar amount we we knew what it was going to be yes was there an issue with budgeting the elementary school in there so that one was um an estimate when we put it in so we actually don't have we just got that bill so I'll be able to tell you next week where that actually falls in it as of right now it is 100% with that bill it will end up over it what was that the line will end up over because of the um Elementary School insurance but why would it have been just an estimate because we knew school was going to be because we didn't know what the policy was going to be at and how much it was going to cost they were able to give us an estimate based off when we anticipated the building coming online but until they actually shot the policy around and got the official one we didn't actually have a firm number until then so it took six months from when the building was actually open to find out how much it was going to cost to it's about nine months because it's going to be September through June wow MH wait so you're saying that we don't really right now you don't know what we're paying for insurance in that no I do it's not recognized in the second quarter okay okay and when I send the legal I will just send you a copy of that policy well the premium invoice if you want the policy you can have it as well so when do we pay that bill like why isn't it recognized here because we didn't get that bill in the second quarter okay you just got that bill the last couple weeks yeah got it okay um so as I stated our expenditure concerns are legal Insurance end of employment I do want to state that we do have that compensated absence or Reser fund of 150,000 that was voted at a prior town meeting for right now I am I have the cost sitting in end of employment for any departures from the town in hopes that the tailings of this year will cover it and at annual town meeting we'll do a budget amendment to absorb that if it looks like we are not going to be able to absorb that within the total appropriation of this year those will just get reclassed to the reserve fund um we added a second local inspector to the building department so that is going to drive up some of the cost in that area the offset is obviously the vacancy right now in the billion inspector if that position gets filled that budget could potentially end up over as I stated the police and fire budgets specifically the overtime are already Frozen um and our unemployment we had an unemployment cost that came through they filed early this fiscal year um kind of at the last moment they could and then got their full allotment since they left it realistically should have been a last year expense had they filed when they transitioned from the town but that is but some good news our health insurance right now is projected to have a surplus in it um even the most conservative estimate we're still expecting to have at least $200,000 in tailings from that line um and we do have some salary vacancies that are providing partial year savings the diversity coordinator um because we have the consultant for the full year we do not need to fill that position so that is a 50,000 in savings that will be available to cover other areas we still have the senior planner vacancy of 104,000 the partial year building inspector and the deputy police chief in the police department obviously that money will probably be used to cover other overages in that department U just two things yes so diversity coordinator attempted to make a federal level joke but I won't um so um we're using money out of a consultant line instead of out of this line yeah so when the f25 budget was developed they didn't want a structural issue if we did end up bringing on a permanent diversity position so we budgeted a 50,000 kind of placeholder knowing that the RFP for the Dei cons was going to cover the entirety of fy2 and this was just supposed to be a placeholder so that if this position was in fact something that was going to be recommended from the consultant to bring on permanently we wouldn't have a structural issue of now trying to fit an entire salary I understand in but are we likely to have an overage in the consultant line because now we budgeted that as well as this no the consultant line was budgeted appropriately and has already been fully encumbered for the 880,000 and that was in FY 24 okay what about these other three positions are we actively and aggressively hiring for these three two out of the three I don't believe yes which of the two or yeah right first two senior plan and the building inspector we're advertising for right now and I don't believe we're advertising for the deputy Deputy police chief okay I'll hold from going down that RIT hole um um different from last quarter's presentation I want to break each Enterprise fund into its own slot um just so we could see you know the receipts and the expenditures on the same page for each so for our sewer Enterprise fund we at 56% of Revenue recognized in user charges for this year we have run the consumption uh based off the first two quarters and we are anticipated to hit estimated revenue for water and sewer um expenditures are 22.5% at the end of the second quarter um we were waiting on some billing from lyw sewer so it's not that we're actually going to come in under we just haven't received the billing on the largest item in this budget yet so let's just yeah let's just um spend a little bit of time on here because there's some comments out there that we're you know we are in the negative numbers on our retained earnings and things like that so there a lot of rumors out there if you could just address where we are with that situation so our retained earnings were certified by do in the negative at the end of FY 24 and that was due to a project that was not anticipated to begin it was debt that was authorized not yet borrowed the project began earlier than had been communicated to the treasurer so he did not borrow it in that round of borrowing it has since been borrowed this year the net result will be fine do obviously hit it on our retained earnings but did not actually have any penalty for us because debt is an obligation that has to be paid regardless so it was not a black mark in terms of actual deficit but it did result in a negative in our AED earnings that will be restored at the end of fy2 so it's really a timing issue it is okay because I think when we um last voted on the rates you and uh Patrick gave us a broad range of options between like getting up to 17 or 18% yes and that is we still think the net is that yes after being equal that's where we'll come out yes and once we have the third quarter data um which actually usually comes out in Fe February we'll be able to better project where the retained earnings are going to end up so when I give the third quarter presentation I'll be able to give you a rough idea of where we're anticipating those retained earnings so we'll have that at least before you're voting the rates for the upcoming year retained earnings at 17% is still below our overall goal is that correct yes our overall policy says 20% um because we had so many projects that we intentionally did vote to use below that the plan that was approved by the select board was to get retained earnings back up to 20% within three years so that way it wasn't too much of a hit on the user charges and we're still and we're still tracking to that to that goal and we'll we'll monitor that over the in your reporting over the next several quars yes and as we do the projections and look at it um as well as any upcoming projects that will be coming out of z um will'll give an updated recommendation of where those rates need to be to fulfill the obligations of the Enterprise fund and still bring up the retained earnings okay next okay the water receipts we have 41% on the revenue and 50% on the expenditures um the this one is we have been receiving the bills from MW so obviously our expenditures are on target the receipts are trending back just because they haven't been collected um not that they have not been build as I stated our projection and our consumption is trending on target for these to be fully recognized water is actually trending to be a little higher than estimated on user charges can I I just have a Qui question on the water expenditures yes are we seeing an increase in what the expenditures are really going to be or are we in line with what we thought those expenditures would be at this point they're in line with what we thought they were going to be the ones that are over um such as uniforms the employees who are part of the water Enterprise fund have a set uniform allowance per year if they choose to purchase all their uniform items at the beginning of the year the line would Trend over and I think we did have a couple new employees who probably did need additional uniforms this year um so there's nothing nothing that we are noticing as concerning at this point in the expenditures thank you um the peg Enterprise fund AKA Joe doat um the revenues are at 45% and expenditures are at 36% so far um we are going into negotiation year with Comcast so that is going to be renegotiated um and everything else here is On Target so we have no concerns with how well Joe is handling his budget did he leave no he back there okay he's waving um and then the solid waste Enterprise fund the revenues are at 37% um which is not concerning the majority of the revenues from this come from the uh tax subsidy from the general fund and we only book that entry at the end of the year so that one's not alarming to us at all um waste zero is almost at 100% that's the bags that we BU as well as the bulk stickers so we essentially budget for one bulk purchase each year we've already made it um in my meeting with the public health director he had indicated that we are no longer going to do the mattress tags in the next order because I guess there were some issues where they were either blowing away or people were stealing other people's mattress tags and they now have a good internal system where people are calling customer service paying for it the exact address and location is being given to them to be given to public works and that is exactly what is being picked up so we'll see a little bit of savings in sticker purchases for next year um composting is trending high and that's because uh Black Earth is continually increasing the bin fee we already got notification they are increasing again again um and each time we get a bill I remember exactly how much it was per bin when we first started with them um so that is one that is we're keeping an eye on Jeff had indicated that if need be he can cover some of the composting charge with his D recycling grant that is received um so we have a way to Pivot if that happens but as of right now those are the areas that we're really watching on that so we have a request so first um black Earth they don't have any competition right if they do it is don't know about very slim and narrow competition okay um so the other question is the solid waste advisory committee has been requesting additional composting bins in a few other locations in town and the answer that they're getting is there's no money for that and that would be correct so because the majority of the revenue comes from the tax ta Levy essentially you would have to increase your tax levy to provide more of a subsidy to this Enterprise fund to be able to allow them to do additional composting so that would obviously be the tradeoff unless there was a way to have people start paying a composting fee but I don't know how that would work is there a benefit with black Earth to like the more they pick up in in our town the less the charges right no it's a per bin pickup um right but if you get to a certain level they they lower the cost of a bin yeah they also increase it if there's any contamination in the bin and I unfortunately ended up on their email thing where I get all the contamination emails and every single pickup day I receive at least eight contamination emails that we get hit with contamination fees oh jeez for when people put non-compostable items in those bins okay there's some tradeoff you're reducing the solid waste fees right tonnage fees at all by no there has been no tonnage decrease realized we has to be well I mean you're saying you're saying you haven't seen the totality of the fees decrease the but there is a tonnage the tonnage trend from what we've been tracking over the last 5 years has not seen a tonnage decrease in what's being picked up in trash and recycling I understand yeah but there is a tonnage fee as part of what we pay right yes sorry I misund if there was composting done it's the trend would have been higher have we not been count yes but I think theid ways has said that the tradeoff isn't one for one and that's the right we maybe need some more education so that we're not getting hit with these fees does Solid Waste know that you're getting you're getting a number of contamination I've been giving them to um the health director when they come in so he is aware I've also kindly asked him to get me removed from the emails and have them go to himself okay I'll follow up with I'm the liais on to the solid way so I'll double check with way okay um so as I stated I'm having bi-weekly budget reviews with the Town Administrator um and that is mostly because we process our vendor checks by- weekly so doing them any more frequently wouldn't give us much Insight um the budget for Public Safety were frozen we're monitoring all the other budgets and will act as necessary um we're also getting to the point in the year we'll we'll start doing internal projections um monthly just to make sure you know if anything starts to look like it's starting to get away from us we can act quickly instead of waiting till quarterly um and we are doing the same projections with the user charges when we get those information from water and sewer and I'm as Gino stated we are actively working on the FY 26 budget development uh to come to you with the town ad Minister's preliminary budget we have completed all the department head budget reviews I did the last one yesterday with the police chief um so now it is just Gino and I hammering away to bridge the gap between what Revenue we can actually sustain and the request that came in um this is my little we are here on our budget timeline um which is the finance draft budget meetings with the Town Administrator and we will be coming back to February 5th to give that preliminary budget recommendation and then this is just can you sorry can you just go back one slide yes does that mean everything above here has already occurred the capital is trending behind okay everything budget development wise is on track capital is trending behind the Departments have been defending their requests with cic yeah and as jino stated they have another meeting tomorrow and another one last week that will get them through all of the budget requests that the Departments have submitted from there the Town Administrator and the finance team will go through to fine-tune what we can actually afford to stay within our debt policy and then that is what will be the amended vote of cic to to move forward in the process okay and that is a little bit different from how we've done it in years past just the transition I assume yeah that was just because of time the transition y so typically the Town Administrator would make recommendations to cic Prior does the pruning beforehand y okay well there's going to be some pruning yeah what I I so I have a question so two two of the biggest issues that we have will be uh the overtime budgets in fire and police and every single year it's it's always you know a lot of pressure on fire and police on on these budgets and I'm just hoping that there's something different that's going to happen to really sit and work with them work with the Chiefs on their budgets and not just getting upset and saying oh you're over your budget or whatever I just you know I think that I've said this that these are two individuals that's special ize in their craft and just a little bit of help with the management on it or maybe some assistance and I hope that that's what's happening yeah so I actually ran 24 years of overtime data for police and fire to get average hours Trends and hours um to really take the dollars away from it because obviously the pay has changed over the years from that we've utilized that data to back into back filling for personal dates vacation days training coverage vacancy coverage and all of that and I've really broken out the spreadsheets that I work on them with to give them all those pieces of data and nice little colorcoded tab so they can follow the Train on it so that way as we're discussing you know potential requests that they have to you know bring on a new program or do additional training we can actually set a specified number to that have that broken out at has its own item um so at this point in where we're at in budget development both Chiefs have expressed that they feel comfortable with the number that we have as the department had proposed overtime budgets for FY 26 and we went full transparency we went painstakingly through the equations on it so everything is covered we went through the contracts to make sure every single contract provision is funded appropriately um and we do this every year this is the first year we've actually broken it out to really like show the work so any person could just open that spreadsheet and be able to follow it without having to know any of the background behind it and then what about Staffing levels so we budget for full Staffing um and that was what we went through so every uh the police department has three vacancies right now the fire department has two those are budgeted to come in at their probationary levels um any training and field training that they need is included in their overtime budgets and then obviously all the current staff that we have is budgeted to step up in their contracts where necessary if they're not already at their top steps and any intended promotions are already budgeted for as well SS good I want to jump in but actually we spoke with uh Chief AA today he said for the first time in several years he has zero vacancies and nobody out on long-term disability you zero vacancies zero oh the the two people are um have already signed their offers and are starting this coming month that's exciting yeah and how about our favorite Department DPW I've hear that department head's great um they are fully staffed We Major to really look at the heart time staff that comes on on the summer to make sure that we have additional Staffing for that and we've also included a budget for additional part-time support in the summer to help with the beach water testing are you going to be looking at adding a winter winter line items for um skating rink yeah able to handle that in host we are going to have one vacancy at the end of this week you'll have you will have one vacancy Cony after eight or nine years with the Department is moved on okay so we be looking to fill that but you you have that's already en that's already encumbered okay I have a question that's okay um could you please reiterate because I don't think I really understand what we're doing this year different than what we've done in years past in order to make sure the FY 26 budget is overtime budget is more accurate than it has been in years past because it sort it sounds like you said we've done these equations before and I have to assume that every time we do them we feel confident right that they are working so either something unexpected happens that we don't account for or the equations maybe are not working so I just want to make sure I understand if there were additional precautions we took this year that we didn't take last year I wouldn't say there's additional precautions I would say there was additional time spent by my department to really put all of the work and all the documentation on there so that way the Chiefs know how these numbers came to be so they have a level of comfort with it they have a level of understanding instead of just being told hey you have an overtime budget of $500,000 make it work we're really going through being like okay this is the staff that you have this is what they have for time off if you have 100% backfill coverage this is how much it's going to cost assuming that it's the average overtime time for that tier so obviously covering a lieutenant is at average Lieutenant pay and really breaking it down like that so that way as they're making specific requests we add that as a specific line item so for example in the fire department we have those new hires who have to go to academy that's 10 weeks 10 weeks of overtime coverage so in that we take a completely separate line that says new hires at fire academy this many people 42 hours a week 10 weeks average overtime of that rank I want to say it's like $114,000 for just for that training Y and that way we know exactly who has to go to training obviously assumed all the new people and that way we have that broken down so at any point as we're going through if overtime starts to trend we can be like okay let's stop go back to the spreadsheet yeah instead of just being like overall we have half a million dollars for overtime we can be like we had 112,000 for right training what happened right and so it's an education so that when the Chiefs in fiscal year 26 are facilitating over time they can be making better decisions on facilitating it as well not just the budget but actually facilitating the budget or spending the budget right they're saying I have to make this decision and this is its impact on the budget and this is how much I have left and therefore I know I can't make this decision or I have or it's going to impact this decision that I have to make in the future yes okay and I think it will also give us the ability to Pivot faster so if something does start happening out of the norm we are able to recognize that a lot more quickly having it broken down into smaller buckets to be like hey why is this bucket filling up FAS than it should let's stop and look at that so and this was never done previously we did it just as the overall like a lump sum you have X to use but not actually break it down the way you just so we did I just never physically broke it down for them um and so that's where I was hoping this year and it seemed to be received well in the meetings with both of the Chiefs um they have more Buy in more accountability yeah and I think just being able to fully grasp um because specifically Chief Archer he was surprised by how much dollars it costs like cuz he always knew 10 weeks for Academy you know 42 hours a week we know this and then but actually seeing that like pulled out so per person it's going to cost this much in overtime and it was just like oh I never actually looked at it at that level right um and likewise with Chief cassada saying like hey we had this special circumstance come up this year we didn't anticipate that in our budget right you know we should potentially look at adding this into the overtime investigations line you know if we have to partner with you know a larger right group to do some sort of Investigation we think it's going to be X number of hours and therefore I can be like okay we're going to add that number of hours what level of staff is going to do that so we're going to take that average overtime so this is the request that you're looking to add to that and really flush that out so I think the bottom line is you do put a lot you in the finance department put a lot of time in figuring out what those overtime budgets should be um it's just that possibly communicating them to the Chiefs has been a little bit different or even the uh the non you know anticipated serious injuries that have come up you can't you can't anticipate those sounds like a decent amount of Education was happening yeah that was the goal your part so thank you was the unforeseen like right my concern is the police over time I just the chief they have three vacancies right now they have one on military leave one out on disability and one that's going out what could be a long-term disability that we're going to have to backfill stuff I think we might have caught a break with the fire department too because is one is it one of the vacancies filled by a former employee that came back fire department yeah oh I either way okay so where are we um so uh myself and the town of ministry will be back on February 5th to present the town of Minister's preliminary budget um the hope with that is that the select board will give any recommendations um or adjustments they wish to have before we return on March 5th with the final recommended budget um and the budget book published at that point through March and April um I will be working with the board to develop your annual town meeting warrant um which I already kind of started today by reaching out to some of our department heads to at least get an idea of any warrant articles that already in process already working with Council trying to get you know maybe bylaw language and stuff like that so that way when the discussion begins I'll have a full list of potential articles for you to review um per our timeline April 16th is the hopeful date that we will close town meeting warrant but we have until April 23rd um if we still have open items uh before that warrant gets closed and obviously May 19th for annual town meeting and just to be safe Diane has reserved the auditorium for Monday Tuesday St in Wednesday of that week it won't be under construction will it no the construction according to Joe uh it will be down from mid-march to uh towards the 20th of March so we'll be all set for May okay great that's it thank you thank you thank you so much okay now moving on to search committee decision and possible vote select board rep on the committee um well this is going to be a little challenging how to walk this through so um we have a few candidates I think that's see Marion did we publish this on the town website to solicit uh input and feedback from and applications and information from from residents no we didn't didn't um we just said it at the meeting actually historically well should say historically it's only happened a couple times but when when we discussed it last week I had just recommended um if if we decided to not nominate someone from from the our board nominating someone outside um you know we could do that if the board feels like we should put it out there and have everybody send in applications but we also are in a position where we need to to um we need to get this process going quickly so it's it's depends on what the opinions are here no I I I certainly understand the want uh to move you know to move the process forward I certainly want to move the process forward um I'm just thinking that you know i' I've reached out to a number of to a number of folks you know it's like hey I you know I can connect you know in a couple of days I'm not available today um so I I do think that it you know this is probably the second most important job that we have as select board members um other than choosing this the the actual Town Administrator is choosing someone who's going to make a recommendation uh for this so I I think it would be doing a a disservice to to take a vote today um on this but to post and maybe take this up at our at our first February meeting where we have you know and and maybe this is all we get but I think to have to have that as uh you know to have that up on the town website and to solicit the best uh and the brightest so we can make the most informed decision possible um it would be would be my recommendation what do other people think I don't have a problem doing that um obviously it is our representative right that we're putting forward so I think in the end we need to feel like whoever we're bringing forward personifies you know the ethos of what we would bring forward to that committee but we also have another bite at the Apple right when the Committees the charter says you know there the Committees kind of come forward with recommendations and select Board gets to get back into the process so I think it's a benefit that we should open up to the community um I think it would be then unnecessary to talk about some members now we should just talk about them collectively and then I also think that whatever decision we make we should forward whatever other applicants um we don't choose to the moderator because I think he has two positions that he fills on the committee and maybe he could look to some of these very qualified people who want to be engaged in this process um and maybe he could uh look from that pool also it does seem to be very consistent with the way we f other committees this committee hopefully is no less important than the other ones we ref fill to actually solicit the input so makes sense to me Daniel I think the whole process needs a little bit more clarity to be honest I don't think we're ready to vote on the couple of resumés I I know I haven't connected with all of these people um I really think that I think we said this last time too that we should consider sending out a survey to Residents to see what they're looking for but we really should also clarify what we're tasking this committee with doing um you know are they doing all of the vetting in giving us a list of finalists yes what is their task and and and be very clear and literal about it so that there can be no confusion um and then we can't come back you know have people come back say later well you know we didn't know what you really wanted us to do no let's be clear about it let's discuss it let's talk about it and let's task them appropriately with it um and at the same token I mean we could be reaching out to you know the mass Association of town select boards and town administrators and seeing what the vetting process looks like in other towns and you know what the prerequisites are or what the metrics are um you know do we even know what we're looking for have we had that bigger conversation well generally it's the search the search committee comes and and says what you know we would what is it we're looking for so at the same time you have a search commit and and also saying as a select board you know having a discussion here what are what are we looking for what does each one of us actually want to see in a future Town Administrator and you know no disrespect to any of us but I think that it's a big ask right it's a big thing we're tasked with all of us and not one to David's point to be taken lightly so you know the people that that we end up seating on this committee you know we've got to be pretty sure that that they up to the task right and they're qualified and and they're the best possible people for that role so I just think that I would like to see a little bit more clarity throughout the whole process right but I would like to see um you know be it like a a checklist or uh a listing I know I'll reach out to the Masters Association of Select boards because I just want to get a metric of some sort that you know we all can look at and understand you know characteristics of town administrators or qualities or what you know in terms of experience education you know all of the boxes so we're all on the same page for what we're looking for or or general idea of where we're going I just feel like we need that Clarity totally agree uh there there uh one of the person I suggested as a possibility did serve last time and uh let me know there were criteria at that point that the select board gave to their representative um on the committee for what the SEL board was looking for so that was kind of kind of some clarity about their direction right so the person that I had recommended also Naomi drien had recommended um that's that was again that was a person who was on it before so I think so how would it look so we should we advertise it in for the next um two weeks you know starting tonight and then we bring um all those names forward or do we just advertise for 10 10 days and you all have those names at least a few days beforehand yeah I mean how does that look we have to vote on Wednesday then we can't have the advertisement open till Tuesday to make an educated decision Wednesday especially if we want to so how about if we leave it these folks you want to leave it for one week is that do you think that's enough time I mean quite honestly like when I look at the agenda tonight I I didn't know if we were voting or just talking about it so you know to me you know the more time that we can give people to get out there and get back to us um the better because we want to make sure we don't miss anybody and you know we inform people that this is an open process let's you know let's have submissions let's you know I don't think we did any of that Outreach here we have to we are in a timeline too and the charter does you know Charter gives us a good idea but I'm just trying to think maybe is it I always saying that the first meeting in February isn't isn't enough um for the process I'm just just not really clear on what I'm hearing I think it is I think we just have to first thing tomorrow post it get it out there well D I'll post it right now well you know taking minutes too I mean you know and uh and get it out there as much as we can maybe we're sending it all you know an email to all households I don't know um we can do a call right put it on the website Facebook a robo call and the newsletter I think goes out tomorrow so I that would be great too might be able to throw on the newslet and I I I too know that I noticed some of the same names were some of the same names from 2016 as much as I appreciate the history and the experience we want to see if we can engage new people too because a lot has changed since 2016 in Swampscott so we want as many people new and old and everybody in between you know to be as interested as as they want to be you know we want to hear that okay so how about this we we put it out there for 8 days and then as you're getting the resumes in Diane you just if you could be the one to send them out yep okay and at the same time you could compile a list like a running like one pager of all the ones you know so that we have yep absolutely so eight days would bring us to Thursday the 30th if we start tonight great okay 31st whatever on a Friday yeah perfect the first week in February so I'll get it all out to you as soon okay probably Thursday because I'm off Thursday and Friday believe when if come in on that day you know the we could also make a folder in in the select board and then give them access to the folder so as they come in you can live drop them just post them and they'll just immediately have access to it just to be clear to the folks that you know we've reached out to can we assume that they will just be dropped into that that folder and they're not they don't have to make a submission that way I've already started okay so I just want to make sure if they're listening orense you know just make sense since they've already obviously reached out in some capacity to show interest how do you want me to advertise this because I can do it right now told you that we're looking for applications for anybody interested in representing this like wood on the town Town Administrator we'll be looking for one one representative and then ask them to attach their resume in their if they have a LinkedIn or something or whatever yeah or anything they want to tell us about what qualifies them for that all right okay okay so moving on to a discussion of citizens petition filed by Katie Arrington on December 3rd 20 24 so we have a let me see here we have a copy of the citizens petition the citizens petition that I actually have there's a copy in our packet is I have one filed from Daniel Arrington then Daniel Arrington and Katie Arington so we have a discussion on this this is this is a petition that's been filed um the petition is called a uh 0114 petition um it is a town meeting citizens petition into an article to submit what it says here an article to revoke The Authority um granted to convey certain town-owned properties pursuant to article two of the town of Swampscott 2023 annual town meeting says the this is this is what it I'm reading brief summary I'm actually reading the actual um petition this warrant article seeks to revoke revoke The Authority previously granted to the swamp Scott select board to sell or lease the property located at 10 new ocean Street site of VFW Post 1240 and 1224 Pine Street the passage of this warn article will provide opportunity for the select board to share with swamp Scott town meeting their current intentions regarding the future of the VFW 1240 post and these important properties to receive feedback from town meeting members so this is this was um that's the petition so um I I imagine this uh this conversation could be uh could be charged um so in order to kind of uh streamline it to get it rolling uh I would um propose a motion uh that we um proceed on the kind of intention of this hearing having having heard the various viewpoints from our public speakers public common people today that we do have a special town meeting I am understanding from actually uh and having kind of thought about the timing that it sounds like you know very being very practical the auditorium is actually not available um in any near-term capacity um to even have this maybe there's a place we could have it but um until something like March 24th um so I would propose a motion that we uh open a special town meeting warrant to have this discussion on Monday March 24th Joe when is the auditorium open when's the auditorium shut down for March 3rd through March 21st yeah I I think just in terms of like where we sit already and having to announce it and you know all of that kind of process and then there's school vacation week and there's what is the day that you're saying March 2th 4th not because I don't want it sooner to kind of keep with the the intent of this but it seems as though that's the first practical date as I understand it so so March 24th do we have a time well I think we normally do these at whatever 7 o'clock or whatever so okay I'll second that so we have motion to call a special town meeting on March 24th to talk about uh to address to address this petition correct do we have any discussion well I will have I I will I will bring it up there's the concern that I have is there's nowhere in this petition does it call for a special town meeting so that means that if you look at this petition and I look at the first name I would say does this individual know that they were signing a petition to call for a special town meeting if it said here this article this petition is to call for special town meeting then I think that that would have had to happen immediately but because it doesn't it says to put an article on the next put an article on the on the warrant that means the article would go onto a warrant onto the next warrant that's just my comment I mean I guess um I would sort of like to understand the special town I mean annual town meeting is May and we're already waiting till the end of March so so what what benefit in your opinion is given by putting this on a special town meeting all by itself versus adding it to annual town meeting uh I guess one is just Pur the charter says if you have 200 signatures um you know that you would have it and we really kind of should have had it under those contexts like back in Jan well by now um so I don't want to kind of punish the petitioners and the signers for the you know timing we're taking this up now and the practicalities of what happens in February March um and you know we have no idea what town meeting will say but I think the sooner that we get that direction and Ben R gets that direction uh the better for everybody um you know like I said if there was some way to do it sooner I'd be all for it um but I'm just kind of going with what I understand to be the first possible reasonable time I mean Mass General law is just it it's clear chapter 39 section 10 selectman shall select board shall call a special town meeting upon request of 200 100 registered voters or 20% of the total number of registered voters of the Town whichever ever number is lesser such meeting to be held not less than 45 days after the receipt of such request so I just want to be in compliance with Mass General law um I think there is you know I I went I went back and watched um and watched day one the end of day one uh of our May 2023 uh meeting uh I made the presentation on behalf of the select board and and it was very clear it was units affordable housing and uh a rebuild of the post uh to provide the highest level of care to Veterans and this was supported by the VFW leadership uh which C certainly shows the intent uh of the article it was unanimously um supported uh in conjunction with providing a new Ada accessible VFW post this was an and this wasn't an or um and article 11 allowed the issuance of an RFP which was unanimously supported by the select board 5 by fincom the affordable housing trust fund and it allows us to select a respondent as well as construct a new canteen on site I mean that was that was the presentation um so I I I just want to be I I want to make sure that you know there's there's disagreement now uh amongst us but I really want to have that Clarity from town meeting to resolve any potential issue and let's let's let's bring let's bring Clarity to our veterans to our residents um and to uh and to Bene brth I think I think I think everybody is is owed um is owed that there's 200 residents who signed this petition and to Doug's point I would I would have it it I would have it tomorrow if we if we could but I do believe that that March 24th um is the you know is a day I did I did call the moderator before this meeting the moderator is available um on March 24th so has this ever been done before that you guys have had a Citizens petition and a special town meeting is there any precedent has this ever happened before not that I know not not so so do we so it's this form right this is the form the only form that you could possibly use for this right that I don't know okay that I don't know I mean the only thing I know is there's nowhere on this forum calls for a special town meeting and you heard two people stand here tonight saying that I signed this forum I did not sign a forum for a special town meeting I'm totally aware of that and I've had more people call me and say the same thing so I'm not even going there I'm just trying to find out was this the intent the intent so we're being told the intent of this was to call for a special town meeting even though it doesn't say here anywhere that that's what it's asking for and we have had people come here and say that is not what I signed for but we're going to forge ahead and suggest that that's what we do regardless of what we've been advised by legal counsel or whoever else with no precedent this never having happened here before right we're kind of making our own all of us are making our own opinions judgments whatever so it just the whole thing is Muddy to me I you know it could pretty much go any which way uh I think to David's Point like you know he's going back to the 2023 town meeting so we've heard from the planning board we've heard from various people who all have a different interpretation of what was said what was voted What was decided so that's kind of like that's I can't go back to that because everybody has a different idea about this thing a different opinion a different idea of how it should go I'm like looking at this petition itself and it doesn't request a special town meeting it requests whatever putting it on a warrant right so it's just I don't know I don't have a problem really um the biggest thing that gives me pause is the fact that people came down here today and said that they signed this and they weren't told what it really what their signature meant I have had people tell me that they have signed this because they were told sign this to save the post when in no way shape or form was this body ever intending to not have a post sure maybe in a different location but at no point where we ever determining or making a decision to get rid of the post so I'm concerned I'm concerned about listen if you want to have a citizen's petition and you want to tell people in in plain language what they're signing for and what this is going to do and you get 200 signatures then you do then do let's let's give them what they need but I don't I don't know I don't feel good about it having heard Mr Green m is dietro people that have called me saying the same stuff am I are we supposed to just ignore that right I'm sure there can be 200 people that will sign with the correct parameters right or the the correct language as intended to be but this is not it right so what do what do we do with that so David would you mind reading the because you have the Mass General like law en you I think you read it when you started what you were saying yeah I just I just have an outline it just says Mass General Law chapter 39 section 10 uh Selectmen shall call a special town meeting upon request in writing of 200 registered voters or of 20% of the total number of registered voters of the Town whichever number is lesser such meeting to be held not later than 45 days after after the receipt of such request okay so I guess like to go a little bit into like just my background when you read something when you read a general law right for what it's meant to be we we are it is a shall we shall have to do this but the conditions to the shall are the if it's made in in writing right so I don't I think the com so I don't want to I understand the intentions Miss Arrington has said her intentions that that was the intention to have a special town meeting but I think what's unfortunate is that without it in writing are we doing a favor of adding language to something that isn't there like are we setting a precedent that well if somebody comes forward next time and said well my intention was to say this like are we opening a door of precedent to say that intentions matter instead of what's written on this paper matter matters and I do caution going that route because then it becomes very difficult [Music] to follow process and procedure when you also are in in intertwining intentions into process and procedure now that being said I believe it is a a special town meeting or an annual town meeting or it can go on the warrant for an annual town meeting so I I think the compromise here is that there would not be a special town meeting for this but we could discuss it at annual town meeting since special town meeting was not requested on the petition understanding that a large amount of people whether they today believe in their signature or not signed this we you don't get to take these Backes you should have understood what you were signing when you signed it and so I I understand that people maybe feel a certain way about how it went down but when you sign something it's important you understand what you're signing and they did sign it but it doesn't say in the petition that they're requesting a special town meeting so I don't know if the compromise here is to put it on the warrant for the annual town meeting and have the conversation so that folks are still heard and and I don't know and I can sit and think about it a little longer like what exactly those six or whatever five and a half weeks are going to how much of a difference it's going to make in the long run to to delay it but in to accelerate it I feel like puts a precedent in place that I'm not comfortable doing but I don't want to deny the petitioner and the petition the signatures what they went about doing so is there a way we can still get there without setting that precedent this has to go on to the next meeting no matter what annual town meeting yeah no so there's a so there's a but there's a there's a different there's a differentiation between um the number of signatures certified um to be put to be placed on the annual town meeting which is I believe the threshold is 10 um so anyone any Anyone who puts together a Citizens petition with 10 signatures would go on the annual town meeting at 200 I think by a certain date at 200 it you you shall and just to be specific from reading the citizens petition article submission form it's it's it's literally on the on the top article um the brief summary States this warrant article uh seeks to revoke The Authority previously granted to the swamp Scott select to sell or lease property located at 10 new ocean Street site of VFW Post 1240 and 12 to 24 Pine Street and the passage of this warrant article will provide the opportunity for the select board to share with swamp Scott town meeting their current intentions regarding the future of VFW Post 1240 in these important properties and they receive feedback from town meeting members Mass General law is very clear the brief summary mentions warrant article twice I I think it's I to me it's clear we should have this special town meeting as soon as possible we are still in the due diligence period with the developer Ben brith we need to give them Clarity uh and in an additional in addition to this I mean we've also received a letter from VFW councel um you know which threatens litigation against the town so I we need to we need to solve all of these issues we need to bring we need to bring Clarity to this we need to do this as as soon as possible I don't want to wait until until our our May annual town meeting we're going to we're going to spend an entire night talking about this this this one article potentially um why not do this as as soon as possible and if that if that date is is is made was it March 24th great and if it's earlier than that even better um but right now the develop ERS in their due diligence phase they're still working through things let's let's figure that out let's let's let's give them Clarity let's give the veterans Clarity and let's so I determine I think we have figured everything out as far as we we did have we had a vote three to two on where we were going and so we we figured it out on December 18th and I I hear what you're saying as far as what this says that is your opinion and I have a different of opinion this does not call this is when someone signed this they did not sign for a special town meeting if this had said to call for a special town meeting then I think we are under Mass General law required to call a special town meeting it seems to me that like we're kind of being two things one we have to remember when this was submitted right this was submitted before we voted right the whole whole point was to engage town meeting right so we have kind of not taken this up this whole time which now makes it seem as though it's kind of less relevant but when it was filed it was much more relevant and it's still not irrelevant secondly the kind of the personic about uh or misreading the the the text that David read doesn't say anywhere you have to say in big bold letters that it was special town meeting I mean that that's that's kind of like a a a a distraction all it says all it says is that you have to have 200 certified signatures once you have 200 certified signatures you must have a special town meeting period it's in writing yes it's in writing this whole thing's in writing yes you're filing it in writing but otherwise once you have 200 we don't have a choice that's what our Charter says it's what state law says state law says so why can you tell me marela what legal counsel then is advising us and why they would advise us of things that are not legal it doesn't make any sense to me Katie would it be helpful if I brought you the mgl sure in its entirety yeah the what the Mass General law we're we're talking about copelan and paage a Municipal Law Firm giving us a legal opinion that we are utilizing to make a decision that's that some of us are saying is completely okay not not true and not accurate and I would like to know the legality I mean I just I yeah I don't know okay so this is this is I'm not taking any questions um sorry I'm just I think I think that like the bigger picture is really what's the harm well that's the same argument I'm making what's the Harmon waiting six weeks what's the har and doing it I mean well the Harmon I mean but you're not I mean that that's just your what that's convenient for you but I mean someone convenient for you to to make the opposite argument no it's not it's I'm following kind of what what Mass law is and there's 200 signatures here so like why why why not because the interpretation of everybody else is that that's not what Mass law says I think I'm going by the actual legal people we asked hold on and if that's wrong and then might be I'd like to know that because that's what I'm going by because that certainly is not my wheelhouse I never would Proclaim it is but okay but again like then you're you're why why okay let's even assume for the moment that's the that that's that's a that's a technical possibility okay just for the moment even if that was a technical possibility why would you choose to not get this resolved as soon as possible that that's my question it's kind of like there's there's an open question in this community like let's get it resolved for everybody's sake as soon as possible why is that so problematic to do that it's not to me I voted the way I voted it's I I don't have any problem with that so here's here's here's legal um Danielle here's legal counsel um the select board is not required to schedule a special town meeting as the petition did not specifically petition the bo board to do so the petition was submitted on a form entitled town meeting citizens petition article submission form 0114 the form instructs instructs the petitioner to submit the document to the board of Selectmen Town administrator's office or the Town Clerk and indicates that for annual town meeting 10 signat certified signatures are required and 100 certified signatures are required for a special town meeting however the petition does not specifically request that the select board convene a special town meeting although in a separate email dated December 3rd 2024 the lead petitioner M Arrington indicated that the board is required to SCH schedule a special town meeting within 45 days General Law chapter 39 section 10 provides the selectman shall insert in the warrant for annual meeting all subjects the ins insertion of which shall be requested of them in writing by 10 or more registered voters or of the town and in the warrant for every special meeting all subjects insertion of which shall be requested of them in writing by 100 registered voters or by 10% of the total number of registered voters whichever number is less the Selectmen shall call a special town meeting upon requests and writing of 200 registered voters or 20% of total number number of registered voters of the Town whichever number is lesser such meeting to be held not later than 45 days after the receipt of such request and shall insert in the warrant therefore all subjects the insertion of which shall be requested by by the said petitioner in my opinion the board has two options as it is my understanding that the assistant town clerk certified 2011 signatures the petition first since has 200 signatures the board could elect to treat the petition as a request to convene a special town meeting on the intent of the petitioner as expressed in her email and convene a special town meeting within 45 days alternatively since the petitioner does not specifically include a request to convene a special town meeting the board could treat the petition as it would any other petition and simply include article on the next special town meeting warrant or if no special town meeting is scheduled on the annual town meeting warrant in my further opinion the town will need to inform the petitioner once the board decides how it would make to proceed any discussion should be held at a properly posted board meeting discuss as said forth above in my opinion the board should decide how it wants to treat this um petition one as a request to convene a special town meeting decide on a date for special ATT meeting with 45 days of the request or as soon as paral therefore or two whether it wishes to treat the request as it would any other Citizen pean and simply include the article on the next special town meeting warrant or if no special town meeting is scheduled on the annual town meeting warrant in May once the board decides a recommend that the board or Gino send out a letter to advise of the board's decision Tom so brings us back to what what is when somebody signed this what was their understanding little bit to Katie's point they they did sign it I I mean I don't think any clarity about like no I that they were you know the I think the only thing that one could say is that they might have felt this way then but they they wouldn't have they didn't feel strongly enough about it that they wanted it to be a special town meeting that they assumed it was an annual town meeting and therefore they wouldn't have signed it if they knew that differential something like I think it's a serious differential because a special town meeting as a taxpayer I mean that's using up you know that's using up your finances too I mean a special town meeting calls people out and I I do think that it but I think that when you when you're presenting a petition and you're leaving that out you know you question why are you leaving that out why why wouldn't you say that right in the beginning I think that's that's that's concerning that's that's not being transparent not following Mass General law is is is concerning to me and there's there are there are differentiation and escalation of levels so if you're talking about 10 annual town meeting if you're talking about a 100 special town meeting doesn't say automatically if you obtain 200 signatures you automatically get a special town meeting it doesn't say that the law says that you must request it in writing it is in writing she requested in writing where is it requested here in writing that she is requesting a special town meeting where does it say special town meeting on this document at all no one says that it's has that's what has to be said in writing I mean clearly to request the special town meeting in writing he can't even get there even though he's trying to get there he can't even get there so I I disagree because he's says that you can if you want to take her request from her email which requests specifically a special town meeting if you want to take that as the request that you can use towards the petition then that would be your request in writing if you don't want to do that which you have ability to do under the law then you would say this can go on annual town meeting because enough signatures were had I think that's the point Tom is trying to make so it's do you give the deference to the email and allow the email language to become the request in writing which meets the condition alongside the 200 signatures to get you to utilize the law or do you then not because the sign signatories did not have the benefit of the email when they were signing it then do you put it on annual town meeting and then it becomes what all these people whether they knew it or not when they were signing it that it would still be a topic at home meeting she says warrant multiple times in here which doesn't mean special town meeting warrant it just means town meeting warrant so I mean we're disenfranchising 2011 certified signatures and voters within the town of swampit I haven't heard from anybody saying that I haven't heard from any of these 201 people saying what are you guys doing I've heard from Katie Arrington and and you two I haven't heard from 201 people saying to me where the hell are you with scheduling a special town meeting I have only heard from people saying I didn't sign that with that thought in mind so what how do I ignore that no I think you hear from certain people and we hear from other people well sure but if they're as as charged up as I would be led to believe by listening to you and David say it has to be immediate why aren't they banging down our door or just emailing select or just saying hey guys what are you doing I asked for a special town meeting where are you if you want that that happen I'd love it I haven't also not been contacted once by this petitioner about this issue I want to talk to you I'm sorry no stop please stop but that's not that's not required I'm saying I'm only hearing this from YouTu to be quite honest okay I've not heard from these 2011 people if they are that in about having a special town meeting not one has contacted me personally I have only been contacted by people saying I didn't sign that with that intent I signed that because I thought I was going to save the post that's what I was told so that is what I have to go by like I I I don't I I'm still unclear how having this conversation at annual town meeting disenfranchises these signatories and I don't know I'm I don't know what is gained by having it at special town meeting I mean I would think a special town meeting called for this purpose versus a town meeting that has an annual town meeting I hope all town meeting members take their um commitment seriously but I would think that you're going to have a larger population to talk to and hear from at an annual town meeting than you are a special town meeting um and because it's on the agenda with other things that are affecting us like the budget and things like that that it would actually get get a bigger Spotlight to have this conversation at annual town meeting and if it takes a whole day it takes a whole day that's it is that is what it is I think we could keep going round and round so we have a motion on the table all in favor I I all against i i i motion does not carry so go get your signatures again miss uh Arrington problem we so then should we move to add this to an annual town meeting or just goes it has to be I know but should we just make that a public no you don't make a vote on citizens there's no vote okay great it automatically goes on to any meeting that we have next okay okay if there's another petition that comes in calling for a special town meeting it happens in 45 days okay okay so if or when so let's go to discussion and possible vote to establish the new hathorne reuse advisory committee I think what we have to do here is we have to take a vote and we just threw out um threw out what we were looking for last time I think the last time we said two fincom two planning One open space yep Diane you open no I think we adjusted that because Katie wanted um so then we were looking for people with architect landscape architect do we have this anywhere I say is it is it in the minut that are attached to this meeting hold on where is it where is itru that's what you have in your minutes there I know that I have that's have now and then do we have we had four it was a total of 11 so there's nothing in our packet about this total of 11 when was this conversation what date was that the 18th I think so yes December 18 meetings ago maybe that's why we're all having a little trouble remembering what happened it was a tough meeting yep okay so the okay so oh architecture construction AR Landscaping so Mar can you repeat the nose Arc that you had there two by two two by two uh we had two fin two finance committee two planning board we originally had said open space and Recreation and then Katie had wanted to bump that to one or maybe it was you just to add open more for open citizens right okay so that was one open space and then the rest was open citizens with a focus on um architect Construction Construction landscape landscape design and I'm looking for to see if I can find the last one I just want to be clear when we had the conversation we had thrown out some ideas of like folks who we would love to apply folks that we want to see but like that shouldn't Prelude anybody who doesn't have that background correct from applying because just I mean all perspectives need to be considered here and just a normal citizen who's got a stake in it right is important too I mean I know we're looking for skill set to help us move the ideas forward there was there nine people was I thought we were 11 I thought it was nine I have seven here so no so it's five it's two fincom two planning One open space that's five and six open to the public with a yeah with a view of hoping architecture AR architecturally inclined construction Landscape Architects um so a total of how many let me ask are we looking for here's the question do we want if we have the five solids that we have to you know we definitely need to have all right the next question is do we add another four or do we add another six I like smaller an odd number we have to have an odd number if people are voting or something like that for I'm G to say this I don't care I want it seated I just want to move like I I I'm I'm going to be honest and say I'm a little frustrated that there's not even like a one sheet here so that we can actually get this thing moving like I just I I don't care if seven or 11 so do you care well I I do care I want more I want more community members than you want the opportunity for yeah I want the opportunity of community members so now we're looking at 11 I think when we had that meeting and hundreds of people showed up in this room that in June that there were a lot of community members who had great ideas who are willing to give their time and energy to this committee so we should make space for as many of them as possible months ago so we're at 11 we're at so we're at 11: so then can we have a motion to approve 11 members motion to approve 11 members let me finish the motion a motion to approve two on the finance committee two from the planning board one from open space and the rest will be open with an emphasis on no sh open like I don't care all right open but but when we do look at this we have to remember that it's important that we have people that have specific skills I disagree I'm going to say it I just want people in this town who are interested to be there we I just want people we are going to be having multiple open meanings but it is imperative that people understand we need to have skill sets such as what M Mr Watson addressed here here and at the past meeting that we had we are going to need multiple drawings and things like that let's get people to apply right let's let's get it moving motion motion second Doug comment is it really that imperative that are two from finance and two from planning board I agree with that I agree I don't understand why we have to have two from one I get but right and maybe there'll be two but I agree I think with the planning I think with the planning board only because they are the planning board they're going to carry carry the mix and puts a little bit of push on them I think we could go with one each to be honest and more more citizens exactly yeah I'm I'm people friendly Amendment okay absolutely all right so you want to go one one one and then open and then okay eight open all right so that was friendly Amendment we well can I have a motion for the friendly Amendment yes motion second second all in favor I okay so now can we go back to the first motion for the 11 y all in favor I I do think um when this posts um for these now open seats whenever yeah tomorrow that we do we should have a little bit of an idea of time the computer because I think a lot of times people hesitate to because they don't understand the time commitment or they they do put their name in the ring and then they don't realize how big the time commitment is so I think like if we just maybe try to get a little timeline together to like are we hoping that this committee comes back to us in six months 12 months and we need to be clear on what we're task tasking them with right and that this is like kind kind of like you know Deja Vu where we're having you know we need to be clear in what we're tasking and asking people to do and and move forward instead of the deliberation can I make can I can I make a suggestion let's this is up on the website and it has been on the website for two weeks now I think and why don't we get uh why don't we get information from the planning planning board on what their recommendations are for a timeline and for have we had any submissions no so do people know they can apply yes you do have submissions I talked to Mary today oh you did yeah I haven't seen any I think they're going to her they're going to her okay right they're go they're going I think it says to go to her you this man wants to really oh no I can't take anyone I just have a comment on the timeline I mean it's a helpful comment if you want can you submit it to us in writing and we can consider it email it to me it's just I didn't have open comment through the night I have to be consistent that's um you said the word Deja Vu this does feel a little bit like deja vu I think did we not ask for some type of um timeline before yeah um so I don't know where that landed I know if it was maybe we asked it maybe through you of marsy can't remember how I think we asked Mar was she here I think she was here herself we asked maybe we can just get larzy are you here get that going anyway so Gina can you help us make sure that that like by the beginning of next week just to timeline and CR like kind of like how frequently timeline you know commitment yes but we should give guidance I think about is it four months is it six months obviously could always be extended but um right and we should have some experience because we we had a committe so we did a similar like it's not going to be the same I'm not saying it is but there's a parallel we had here and so what did that timing look like and so we have something to draw from to get some of that potentially prospective data and then there might be overlays on top of that that would accelerate ran there's nobody left here so go ahead you want to give us your quick timeline one of the nicest things about having a vol committee um is that it's not a contract that you that the town has hired people with you know when when we hire a contractor a consultant every meeting is is okay so many so you get so many meetings you know you get four meetings and you have to you have to settle on this plan by four meetings the beauty sorry the beauty of this is that the the timeline really should be open-ended in the sense that you know I'd like to be on the committee if I'm on the committee I would work hard with long everyone else we'll get done when we get done in other words the idea is to finish as soon as we can but the but we don't want to establish we don't want to say you have four months you have six months you have eight I don't know how long it would take it's going to take at least six months you want to have the freedom to just have it take as long as it takes but I promise you after two or three meetings the town would feel good about where the you know that progress would be occurring because they'd see a variety of plans they come into a meeting and you can have as many public meetings as you want because you're not paying anybody and and you and you have seven drawings you know and you and you start to talk about all the drawings and you bring people along and you you might even do the same the same exact meeting a week later because not everyone's going to get to every meeting and you don't want people to feel like oh my God I missed a meeting so now now they moved on it it's it's the process will be in a sense slow but not slow like we're going to drag it out but slow like deliberate so okay I mean maybe maybe I got it and yeah I'm sorry I have to object to several things said here I I disagree I I definitely think we need a timeline me too okay right um I think we're okay with having six months I'm GNA just put forward as a you Mary can you know further guide us if she thinks for some reason that's way too much or way too little or whatever but like we need a that we need a timeline I I think we also need from Marzi like with all due respect I think it' be very hard for for any person out there to in individual citizen to be the facilitator of this process um if Mary can feel like she can do that um that's one thing I I you know I get the consultant thing maybe it's a big bad word in this context um you could have but you could have a just a purely a facilitator uh not necessarily a landscape architect or a planner or this or that but I think to facilitate a public process proc it takes real work and real thinking and real structure otherwise you know again Brian I love you but like having you know having a meeting here and then having another one the next week because some people couldn't make it I mean that that's just like uh well look I'm speaking as quickly as I can because I feel like I'm you know I've got like two minutes and you're you're going to cut me off I mean it's a lot more thoughtful and deliberate and I participated in in these processes it wouldn't be chaos and would it's okay it it would be an orderly process right you're speaking of it coming organically as opposed you're going to have 11 people we understand trust the 11 people sure to be the facilitator it isn't it isn't that hard but you are right it takes it takes planning and homework and so forth uh and I think that's you know if I'm on the committee I'll certainly bring that bring order to it with the other people on the committee I think we I think a committee can do that okay and you'll know very quickly if we can if if you got to the first two meetings and it's chaos and you don't like it then then speak up but I don't think I don't think you'll be disappointed okay Brian yep I think I think the point is uh it's it's likely somewhere in between giving cart blanch and saying it has to be done by the right there's estimated there's an estimated structure there's a skeleton we have marsy Mary Mar's gonna get get everything together back to us in a week okay great all right but uh we're good on the we're good on the 11 okay so now moving to the discussion posible vote on The UU lease I think we talked about that earlier in your meeting so we I just need a vote So Max just texted me 45 packing spaces 45 okay great now now we're not are we signators to this to this agreement this license agreement I mean it looks like the school committee is the school committee um we I just have actually have to just sign the insurance coverage agreement but I'm not going to I don't want to sign the insur as a chair I sign the insurance coverage agreement but I don't want to do that without a vote from the select board okay so can I have a motion motion to approve the insurance coverage agreement that covers the lease that the school is doing with the uyu church oh and I just want to note that Katie Fallon did enormous amount of work going over this insurance coverage agreement when it first came out um even I picked up the language in there that needed to be removed so Katie went over it and she's looked at it again so we're good with itk this one page it's just this okay just this one page is what I'm going to sign okay so can I have a motion to accept this second second all in favor I I okay motion carries okay okay um okay discussion of possible vote to merge the climate action and resiliency committees into one committee so can you just give us a breakdown on what that's going to look like y total number so the two committees have uh mutually agreed that their overlapping jurisdictions continue um and therefore be much more efficient to have one committee uh that's kind of executing on our overall climate action plan uh in various respects and uh share with the board uh the you know very much right before this meeting uh the recommendations of the committee uh be nine people total um I can read out their names and their specialized Focus areas that would be um beneficial to the board we don't have this anyway right he sent email before should I read it out quick or go ahead sure that' be great thank you sorry so Martha Schmidt right now is the chair of both committees she would continue to be the chair oh easy uh Lily Worley uh focuses on Coastal resilience decarbonization Outreach and Mass synergize Suzanne hail natural resources resilience and vulnerability for those of you are not familiar with the details of the climate action plan these are kind of different pieces of the of the plan uh Hazel Hitchcock uh resilience and vulnerability also a student y um JN uh Falco Coastal resilience and vulnerability natural resources Diana edos buildings and Energy natural resources resilience and vulnerability uh George Allen solar power EV charging infrastructure transportation electrification uh heat pumps Community power Outreach David zanowski building electrification heat pumps Rich Frankle solar decoration Transportation natural resources tree committee and then there'll be additional people that are on the committee uh including this is pulling the select board member off the committee just being a liaison like other committees and then other working group members people that have been very involved but don't have to be on the committee but they would attend and help out Neil Duffy uh Sierra Munos uh Joe Roman and Jonathan Davis I just have a anyone else could be in that category as well but really the the nine members are the first people so so those so those last few members are not alternates they're just they're not technically alternates we could make them alternates but I think there was some debate about whether or not that was the way we do things or whatever but it's not necessary but are who made the decision on those people that aren't the voting members everybody collectively is okay with this Neil Duffy is okay with not being okay okay so everybody collectively is fine okay so can I say kudos to Doug for doing this because we have a well it's to the committee there was all there a smart move and I'm glad you did it so motion to consolidate second all in favor I I do we also have to make a motion to appoint judge as Le um I'm sorry Doug as liaison or because he was a voting member he was a leison and voting member anyway yeah okay so it's okay yeah action and resilien Comm great that's really great okay all right park so now we're out to our favorite subject again um so Ju Just so everybody knows um we did get an open meeting law complaint and uh because we didn't have the addresses of the restaurants we had to just re ratify this so um we need to ratify and validate and confirm the actions taken on December 18th meaning to improve and renew the liquor license come vict license entertainment license and class two licenses Katie you want to read the liquor licenses sure uh liquor license Cafe avalino 242 Humphrey Street chai Asian Cuisine 435 Paradise Road Dockside Pub 286 Humphrey Street Gourmet Garden 430 Paradise Road Haw by the Sea 153 Humphrey Street mexic Cantina 443 Paradise Road Mission on the bay 141 Humphrey Street New Haven 408 Humphrey Street Paradiso 15 Railroad Avenue tfic 146 Humphrey Street Pomona 3 128 Humphrey Street BFW post 1240 10 new ocean Street St John's 430 Paradise Road swamp skot Club 362 Humphrey Street swamp skot yach Club 443 Paradise Road Burl Street Liquors 205 Burl Street wien Square Liquors 371 Paradise Road op Aries Express sorry 408 hum Street and Richdale 444 Humphrey Street so um David you want to read the Comon Victors wait don't we have to motion and ratify those and then do the next one them individually okay so let's do them individually so I motion to ratify validate and confirm the liquor license as I just read Danielle a second all in favor I hi motion carries common vicard license is the secretary here David oh oh Jesus I'll read it if you want to vit's license Anna takaria 646 Humphrey Street Bootsie Berry 160 Humphrey Street Cafe avalino oh sorry boots Berry I said Bootsy boot boot booty Bootsie Berry uh Cafe avalino 242 Humphrey Street Captain Pizza three Railroad Avenue chai Asian Cuisine 435 Paradise Road Chipotle Mexican Grill 450 Humphrey Street Cindy suet 653 Humphrey Street Cookie moner 505 Paradise Road Dockside Pub and Grill 286 Humphrey Street Domino's Pizza 430 Paradise Road Duncan 980 Paradise Road Five Guys 980 Paradise Road flip the bird 450 Paradise Road G Bar and Kitchen 256 Humphrey Street Gourmet Garden 430 Paradise Road ha by the Sea 153 Humphrey Street Jersey Mike sub 425 Paradise Road Lincoln's Landing 156 Humphrey Street little G 250 Humphrey Street mexical Cantina Grill 443 Paradise Road newor Haven 408 Humphrey Street Panera Bread 433 Paradise Road Paradiso Restaurante 15 railroad AV Pomona Cafe I think it's Pomona 3 um uh 128 Humphrey Street Popo's hot dog Kell's cream 168 Humphrey Street kadoba Mexican Eats 10 16 Paradise Road Renzo's Pizza 197 Essex Street Starbucks 450 Paradise Road tyreic by the Sea 146 Humphrey Street Tony Lena sandwich shop 88 Cherry Street Tropical Smoothie Cafe 450 Paradise Road Volo craft Pizza 152 Humphrey Street we a motion to motion second Danielle all in favor I okay entertainment payment license Cafe avalino 4 um sorry 242 Humphrey Street chai Asian Cuisine 435 Paradise Road Dockside Pub and gr 286 Humphrey Street G restaurant 2 uh 256 Humphrey Street little G 256 Humphrey Street Gourmet Garden 430 Paradise Road Mexicali Cantina and Grill 443 Paradise Road Mission on the bay 141 Humphrey Street New yor Haven 408 Humphrey Street Paradiso Restaurante 15 Railroad Avenue St John the Baptist Club 40 Burpy Terrace swamp Scott Club 362 Humphrey Street the swamp Scot Yak Club 4 25 Humphrey Street the VFW Post 1240 uh 8 Pine Street I'll make the motion second all in favor I I and then our class to Four Seasons Motor Group LLC which is 460 Humphrey Street and Paradise Auto Sales Inc at 219 Paradise Road I'll make the motion to ratify second all in favor I I okay um so votes of the board approval and con consent agenda can I have a mo motion to approve the consent agenda move all in favor I I select board time Danielle I have one one thing that I want to mention just with the consent agenda in the minutes to Frank Smith's point when do we release minutes and why don't we I think that needs to be clarified because we approve minutes but to his point we haven't released minutes in I don't know how long what is our procedure J for releasing minutes so you're asking what is our procedure for releasing minutes in executive session any minutes if that's what well we release our minutes for example you just approved minutes they get released tonight tomorrow morning so we have approved executive session minutes that have not been released what I think we had a valid question someone came in and actually asked that tonight Frank Smith I think we should somehow respond to what you know why we don't release executive session minutes um we do release executive session minutes and there there are other minutes in executive session that we don't release and the actual legal terminology on that do you know what the legal terminology is for when we're not releasing well there's certain criteria that we use to determine whe whether or not minutes can be released we're Bound by open meeting law for the criteria that we can use to not release minutes we can't just decide we're not releasing it it has to fit into certain criteria I don't have it in front of me it would be better if we just brought it to the next meeting yeah why don't we bring it to the my point is we we have very specific parameters and reasons why we do not release executive session minutes yes and there has been an increasing amount of scrutiny on on this board in certain members of this board yeah that we are engaging in less than transparent Behavior right or that we're you know in collusion in in you know keeping things quiet and I really think you know at some point we we really should just put it out there and be honest about it and you know explain the process to people that don't understand right so people can't come down here and make accusations and claims that are not factual right I think it's time we communicate what our parameters are and what the reasoning is right so that we can eliminate this lingering ongoing back and forth um with people that want to make this a political or whatever they're trying to do right I think it's it's high time we put it out there and explain exactly why we do what we do good idea and and clear the air because I think it's time to move on there are bigger things that we're working on that we're tasked with and we're wasting a lot of time on this type of stuff and it it just frustrates me personally because you know it there's no reason for it I really just want to see us move on and and and be clear that's it that's it the only other thing I have is kudos to you and Gino and the DPW with the ice shink I know to a lot of people it seems like a really small insignificant thing but a lot of people in this town enjoy that ice rink they've been asking for it for a long time and a long time went by that no one could make it happen so I applaud you for making it happen again it's a small thing but it goes a long way and clearly goes a long way because it's all I've been contacted about for the past two weeks so thank you for doing that and kudos to you Gino that's it Doug um no nothing for now thanks good Katie um well as everybody has said I think the um very excited about big blue bargain going into um the Clark portable very excited to see that space utiliz number one also extremely excited to see them giving back to this community they've been a great asset um and if you have donations they are constantly posting follow them on Facebook they post Their donation hours on Facebook so you could drop in um also they're very responsive to their Facebook messenger and if you message them they'll try to accommodate you so if you're doing a big Purge and you want to you know not buy the extra bags to throw things out in the trash or you just want to be better about thoughtful about the environment please reach out um to Big Blue Bargains and make donations and donate your time because those four women plus I believe one more make up the board they said they have 13 children among them and they're still doing this so to say that you anybody doesn't have time to do something in this town that's crazy because these women found a need they took it on against some significant push back and they they figured it out sure with the help of a lot of people and they're grateful and we're I'm grateful for a lot of people helping um but they have they're juggling it all and they're doing it gracefully so I just want to acknowledge that um and as far as the ice skating rink I think the reason folks are talking about it so much is because it brings a Nostalgia back right for folks who have been in this town a long time who as Miss Depetro said her kids and you know there's value on that there's there is value and so as we move forward onto different things bigger things we also respect the history of where we came from and that some of that needs to be reminded every now and then okay and so so for my tri chair um I was just wonder Amy can or Gino um can you look up on Iraq if Iraq wants to make a change on their committee do we have to do that uh how do we go about making a change they want to drop the member of the planning board off of Iraq and I'm not sure if we have to do that through a bylaw um I'll on that and if you double check that um we've had three meetings with tri chair uh one week we had two meetings one week had one meeting Diane took minutes she's going to forward out all the minutes you know it is a it is a challenge you know we are you know we do have a gap between what the town is uh allocating as far as funding for the schools and what the schools need so tomorrow night we'll be listening to the schools and you know we're still in the process and we'll find a way to get there you still had something I just remembered I'm sorry I wrote something down for when Amy did her presentation about town the annual town meeting warrant um I believe the tree committee and Andrew's Chapel both have um items that okay I'll reach out to them thank you thank you um Mar can just a question on a question I can wait till you're done no go ahead um you're saying there's a gap to me it's like there's a gap like oh we've proposed something uh I didn't you know I didn't even know that we're proposing something and we didn't propose anything well if there's a gap between what we're saying the budget would be and what the school committee is saying then I finance director makes a recommend makes a the finance director gives a recommendation on the dollar amount and the school committee is putting together their budget so this is the pro this is the process yeah I'm just saying we're going to have a meeting with them tomorrow night and I'm feeling after all this time I'm feeling clueless about like where we're at and what that conversation's going to be um is there something I missed that we have in that regard or for the purpose of tomorrow it's so that you can watch the superintendent's budget presentation um ask questions in the moment if you have them and it's mostly to save the superintendent and Cheryl from having to give the same presentation in triplicate to each of the different committees to Doug's Point how will we know what the Gap is right or yeah we really don't I think what everyone is referring to is they came with with a budget right now prelimary maybe as it is 5% 5.7% overlast year so that's the number they're requesting right so that's the increase right so Mary Allen speaking to the Gap right from what Amy is proposing so I think Doug's just saying when how do we see those numbers to know what we're looking at or what we're even listening for tomorrow is that part of what was given to us toight is that what you were saying we're in the minutes is that what the minutes are about is that what we're well no what the minutes are going to show you what the minutes are going to show you is anything that happened in those conversations I didn't want to you know I wanted to make sure that the board had you know a good idea of what was being said in those two and a half meetings um I think that's what Doug is probably asking to see I would like the same just so we know what we can you know what we're looking at so and then you'll so tomorrow you'll have the finance committee um members of the finance committee select board and the school committee and this is pretty much in the norm is it that that we have joint meetings like this yes we've never had a we've never had a s Comm and the finance this is the first year that oh you know what is's the finance the I'm sorry the finance committee we always had joint meetings with the school committee to go go over the numbers I'm spent a lot of time on the finance committee so do like yeah we have it every year but so this is the process the first of its kind I from what I understand yes so the reason why because we didn't have the larger when we when we went to the school committee and said we'd like to have a larger discussion school committee said we would prefer not to have a larger discussion but we would prefer that we have this large have the larger discussion uh when we present our budget at that time okay so then I have a follow-up question what is the form for that so we're supposed to we're we're going to just be sitting here asking questions that are we yes in any type of format or just am I just interrupting line by line like is there do you know what I'm saying or yes yes so format L has that been worked out ahead of time or format wise you will all be in and open a meeting okay um so yes same as you can ask questions now I'm sure charl I'm try the to figure out how we get the most out of this thing because the whole purpose of this is to um get for the schools in town to collaborate and be um on the same page and to avoid what happened at last town meeting right yes so I'm trying to see you know understand the process so we can go about it with the right mindset so tomorrow when Cheryl is presenting the the budget I'm sure Cheryl is going to say how she wants to take questions okay great and we'll be able to ask questions and get a better understanding and and go from there so as I cannot attend due to a scheduling conflict should I just watch it and address my questions to Cheryl CCU and the chair of the finance committee yeah you could do that too okay okay any other all right so oh I'm sorry I was in the midd my sorry um okay so that's the tri chair uh the board of assessors uh they are beginning they're they'll be closing up the abatement application process then they'll be going into looking at their abatements um our assessor did meet with the do this week to get a better understanding of what the Staffing levels are going to be we definitely have to increase our staffing levels and we're just on top of that um the Council on Aging is dealing with the van issue and it looks like we're going to have to possibly remove one van out of the inventory because we don't really have a CDL a CDL driver and we don't really use that third van so they're looking at that and then last but not least you have um your Solid Waste advisory committee which will be preparing the numbers and giving us a better forecast of what it's going to look like in the next 12 to 24 months because so many landfills are closing there will only be one landfill left and we've got to really make sure that we're cognizant because that the cost of removing our trash um is going to be going up so our trash right now is shipped uh some of it is taken care of here in the state but quite a bit of it is actually shipped out so you know it's it's a really amazing committee they work really hard they do a lot of work and they will be coming in and doing a um a quicker presentation so and that's it for uh that's it for my my minutes so can I have a motion to adjourn can I say one more holy cow um could you pleas could someone please and I'm happy to just communicate to the moderator that we are tabling the that we did not vote on the liaison and that the plan is that we will be having this conversation so that the moderator isn't blindsided by yes I will send an email thank you from the car perfect thank you so can I have a motion to adjourn to adjourn second all in favor I I good night good night