##VIDEO ID:W3xMPoPOQpw## 37. Yeah, I know we. Criminal justice. I got married at Pasco and Hillsborough and Manatee and Sarasota. So we've been like that. We bought a house that was like straight out of 1980. And we've been renovating it. And like, you could make it brain dead. It's close to being done. First one we renovated and it's been some utility. I mean, like I would do it again. It's all. What everybody else is doing, you know? Yeah. I've worked with a lot of places right around here too, which is really interesting. And Indiana, Manatee County, this I don't know. What do you see for Jacki? You know. This is really. Yeah. Except Miami. Broward County is Fort Lauderdale. Their their sheriff. Their constitutional officer is a former football player. All right. It looks like it's 630. Florida State College is the seats a little high. Got a let's see if I can lower it. All right. We can call the meeting to order, please. May we have roll call? Yes, sir. Present. Miss Rich. Present. Mr. Grossman's out. Mr. Wood. Present. Mr. Fuchs. Present. All right. Thank you so much. If we can please have our attorney lead us through the quasi judicial. Yes, ma'am. So this, as you know, is a quasi judicial hearing. As probably most of yours are. The job. Your job is to be a quasi judge, which is essentially to look for competent, substantial evidence that can come in the form from yours, the city staff, or from the applicant applicant's experts. Then you want to listen to the public as well and apply that to the criteria. That is relevant to the application, and that will be presented by staff. And make a decision with regard to that. Everyone has to be that's going to testify, will have to be done so under oath and I'll swear them in in a moment. But then also, you all will have to disclose any ex parte communications before we get started. Thank you sir. So we're going to swear in anyone who wishes to speak today. Okay. Anybody going to speak? Stand. Raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. All right. All right. Thank you. Thank you. Gentlemen. So we'll have our one application for the today is number 20 468, which is a variance to reduce the required rear yard setback for the purpose of constructing a new screen enclosure with a solid roof property at 1013 Rose Tree Lane. If we can, please have our staff presentation. Miss keen. One second, Madam Chair. You will all need to disclose any ex parte communications. Are you familiar with that or do I need to explain it? Okay. Yes. We do. We have any any communications, visit the property, any outside research that you've done? No. Okay, great. We're clean. Everybody saying no. For the record, the packet. Okay. All right. Ali Keen, principal planner with the planning and Zoning department. The subject property is outlined in red here on the screen. This property, as well as all the surrounding properties, are within the are 100 single family residential zoning district. The applicant is here today requesting a variance to reduce the required rear yard setback. And this is for the purpose of constructing a new screen enclosure on the back side of the home that has a solid roof. They are proposing to construct approximately a 435 square foot enclosure. It is shown here in orange on the drawing. The enclosure is proposed to be set back 26ft from the rear property line. The R 100 zoning district requires a minimum rear yard setback of 30ft. According to the survey, the existing home sits right at that 30 foot setback line, so the area that's shaded in green on the drawing is the. It's a little hard to see on the scree, but right at the back line of the home represents basically the rear yard. And really anywhere in that rear yard of the home would not permit a structure of this size that has any sort of solid roof covering. The R 100 zoning district also requires a minimum ten foot side setback. The existing home sits about 38ft from the West side property line. The structure could potentially be redesigned to fit in this side yard. We did talk to the applicant about could it be redesigned? He indicated that it could potentially block some access to the rear yard. There's a gate at their fence. But staff is of the opinion that the required ten foot setback still would provide adequate access to the rear yar. The land development code, as you guys are all aware, does have some specific standards in regards to pool screening, closures, specifically with an open screen roof. It does allow reduced setbacks, specifically with the rear yard. It would allow a minimum five foot setback or outside any sort of easement. This property has a ten foot easement along the rear property line here. But if the structure had a open screen roof, it would be permitted to go up to ten feet to the of the rear property line. And we could apply that setback requirement as a screening closure. We did talk to the applicant about that option, but they did indicate that having a solid roof was really kind of vital to provide adequate shade on their patio. Here are your variance criteria, and I'm happy to answer any questions. Thank you so much. Are there any questions for the board? For the staff? So really, if I'm understanding correctly screened versus covered is where we're coming into the hiccup here. And the request is for the setback on the rear of the four feet. Correct. Correct. So we're okay on the side? Yes. The side meets it right now. The structure has a 22 foot side setback. So it's far exceeds very adequate. Okay. Any questions thoughts before we invite the applicant up to present information and or questions. Okay. Thank you. Yes. Yes, sir. Up to the thing. If you could please state your name and address for the record, sir. And you have been sworn in. So thank you. Okay. Preston Dellinger, 1013 Rose Tree Lane. Yeah. So I did include a supplemental letter. So I'm not sure if everybody had a chance to read that one yet. It was very verbose. I apologize. It's kind of my thing. I'm a short story long kind of guy. But yeah, to your point, you know, kind of the original thought here was, I look down my property line and I can just see screen porch on screen, porch on screen, porch on screen, porch to the right, to the left. As far as I can see, the only difference is when I look up there is open and ours wouldn't be. They're taking themselves all the way up to as far as our property line will go, where we're trying to reserve green space. We know Tarpon is a green city arborist. You know, many, many years in a row, as Ali mentioned, we talked about potentially redesigning things and kind of just coming off, what would be this west wall and using that just the property doesn't really conclusively lend itself to have that area be nice because of the way it kind of shapes itself. There's walls here where we'd want to put TVs and entertaining sessions anyways. It doesn't fit for our needs. Yeah, sorry, I'm getting a little flustered up here. Let me see. I'll take you back a little bit. You know, when we first moved into the property, there was a deck there in this exact L configuration. It was a wood deck built by the guy who owned the place, who I guess fancied himself handy. It fell apart on us in about two years. Regardless of our best efforts to push stuff down. So we've really grown accustomed to that kind of space there. There's a nice wall there where a TV can be mounted. It will be plenty wide enough to get a dinner table in there and to entertain and do the things we want to do. So in trying to redesign the property, we looked at kind of just putting it all on that wall. There just isn't anywhere to really hang a TV. It's going to push us further to our neighbor's house. It's going to push us further south on the property, which will basically eliminate some additional planning we want to do. I wanted to put a little small barbecue spot in there. I wanted to be able to pull a little car trailer in there. We do a lot of camping, so I wanted to be able to store that trailer back there with the reconfiguration to get a very similar square footage, to get us far enough to a wall where we can mount a TV and do all the things we plan to do out there. I probably come back here asking for tree removal and stuff like that in my front yard to get into my back. So we felt that that was the most disruptive option of all the available options into trying to get the space made for us. My wife is very much into local native gardening and planting. We have so many plans for green space back there, so we're really trying to reduce the footprint, trying to give us a little bit of space. We can still get around there. I can get into my gate. I don't have to rearrange it. I don't have to take trees out in the future. So those are the big things. But yeah, everything's in there. Essentially, I did some quick cocktail math. My square footage in the backyard is about 5000ftS of green space, give or take, right? Just real quick looking at this variance, you know, and I think my research shows that the variance when this house was built was actually less than this. It might have been 25ft or 20ft. So somewhere a long time this might have changed. Maybe the developers wouldn't have built it so close if they had known it was going to change. But looking at the available green space, they're like, what we're asking for is 1% of our total yard. It's 3% of encroachment within the actual space. So we're just hopeful, you know, again, we get desire isn't exactly the one of the six questions we have to ask. You know, Ali was was very gracious and let me know. It's like, hey, desire doesn't, you know, Grant a variance, but it will it will make additional hardships. We won't be able to use the space in the way we do it. And we're likely just to scrap the project if we can't get that little space because, again, that that little wall, even if we come back from it, it's just not wide enough to do anything in there as is. We'd have to come on that west wall. We'd be closer to the fence, closer to our neighbors, reducing access potential tree issues, you know. So we've we've thought about it. We've considered it. Just tried to make what's worked there and said, hey, that little space we had is exactly what we enjoyed. It's we're familiar with it. We know it fits everything we want. So let's just go ahead and submit it, put the money in, you know, went two months waiting on the project. You know, because it's important to us really to get that little piece. And again, it's, it's, it's four four feet I think, you know, plenty, plenty of green space bill. I think you know, equipment can still get back there. I think that's the concern. Right. With the roof situation. You want the 30 foot because you can get equipment back there. If you have to do something, you know, from the city or whatever it is. So yeah, that's it. I think, you know, the supplemental letter went over most of that. So I'm happy to answer any questions or, you know, whatever it is, we're just here gracefully. I'll tell you, it's been it's been a miserable process this entire not the city, by the way. Sorry, I meant to start with that. I did want to I did want to go on record and say, everybody said, hey, you got me working with Tarpon. You're going to have a difficult time. This is not going to be fun. And it's been the exact opposite. I have to say, you know, Patricia McNeese was was fantastic, super communicative, really fast to reply. Ali's been I mean tremendous wonderful. I mean just super informative and quick with things and the technical review committee with the information they gave back was super helpful. So I was like blown away, impressed, compared to like what I've been prepared for outside of the city part. Everything that this has touched, this project has been an absolute nightmare. Between getting the HELOC financing to get this, I'm five months into this thing on some other parts of this project that are still going on. I'm basically project managing this thing, working a full time job. It's been miserable. So I went to hurricanes because why not? Right, right. Two hurricanes. So really, really, I'm really just trying to get a little bit of sympathy here because I'm literally throwing myself on the floor here of like, can something please just go right and go our way for once? But understand all the all the thoughts and concerns, you know, with it and again, at the end of the day, I go to my neighbor's house, I look left screen. I would look screen, I look straight screen. They got screen, I look right screen, they got screen. I look behind me house, they got a house. The only difference is when I look up it's a little different. So plenty of green space. We're going to plant awesome stuff back there. I don't want to mow more trees down. Yeah that's it. Sorry. Can you clarify for me? You were referencing that there was an existing wall. It sounds like the previous homeowners you said had built a deck. Where is that wall in reference to this? Yeah. So if you're was that in one of your pictures in the letter by chance, right. Right, right, right. I have a letter. Maybe. Yeah. No, I don't think it's going to show it too well, but maybe so. No, not the pictures back. No. So basically it's of the neighbors, right? Yeah. Yeah I wish I would have more drawings. So it's basically I wish I could go up there and point. So where the where it's coming out there. Yeah. That that wall right there to where the wall comes up like exactly where this where this drawing is, is where a deck used to be. So the guy had built the deck. It's almost to the inch. Like the exact thing we're like, let's just keep the property as it was, like, it's already. You can see the sand pile where the thing used to be. So that's where it was. So that deck essentially we enjoyed it out there. We sat it on a lot. I mean, the noseeums got us the Noseeums are terrible anymore. I don't know if it's the storms or what. So we're like, we got to get something screened in because we can't sit back here anymore. But yeah, it was popping up. I bolted it down. I treated it as best I could, I cleaned it, but he just didn't do a great job. It wasn't wasn't structured correctly like on the foundations and stuff, whatever they did. So the dude fancied himself handy. I think he was like an electrician, so he thought he could do a lot of stuff. Like we've we call it getting Hob Dade because like, like, oh, there's a he must have done that one because it's like 80% of the way there. The last 20%. So, so the wall. So sorry. Your question again. Sorry. Yeah. So I guess when you're talking the wall it's the exterior, the house walls. Yes. Gotcha. Yeah. So and so you're looking to pour concrete slab on the orange screen and put it like a I think they're doing footers and then it's going to be some sort of like base or whatever resin base or whatever it is. Gotcha. Yeah. And the gosh, I have that screen roof. What the heck is that called? What the heck are those panels called? Something they're like the metal and the metal and the foam in the middle. Is that what you're talking? Oh, yeah. Like Hardie board or something like that or the roof material. It doesn't matter. Yeah. So that's the idea, not the corrugated. It's. Oh yeah I know, I know exactly. I'm not sure I'm learning a lot in this process. It's like a panel roof. Yeah. Yeah. It'll be a panel roof. Yeah. So it's not going to be like hard, like, you know, wood or anything. It'll be like your normal. Just like your little screened in porch roof. Gotcha. Okay. Are there any other. I'm sorry. I got on a tangent, folk. Any questions? Miss Rich? Hi. Thanks for being here and writing your detailed summary. You had mentioned with that previous deck. It was like a wood frame with, I think the foundation was just wood. Concrete, whatever. Yeah, yeah. Like so right now you said sand. It's just like an open area. All that has been removed already. Oh yeah. Previously. Years ago. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And the exterior wall that you were talking about where he had some things out there. He's already put exterior outlets out there. There was one exterior outlet already out there. Yeah. And you were saying in your letter there there wasn't a way for you to do electrical on the other, on the other wall, there's no electrical. A lot more expensive. Correct? Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Because everything would have to come in there to that side. There's nothing on that other wall at all. So question for you. Sure. So the big deal is we're talking about is the roof correct? I believe so as far as I understand it, that's the difference is my neighbors can all be ten feet up there because theirs is an open roof. So just out of curiosity, would it be possible to do half the roof solid, make the variance, and then the back side be denied? I mean, I guess in theory it's possible it just wouldn't be desirable just again, because the water getting in there, the moisture to the ground. And as you know, it's like we got a pretty low lying area back there. So I don't know, your electronics would be on the house side wall. Right. I'm sorry. All the electronics like the TV you're talking about are on the house side wall. The idea would be right now, you know, visually would be put on you know, it's hard to explain. So you're going to come out, make that sharp. Right. And then you're kind of in that spot here. There's a wall right there where we plan to mount everything or refrigerator. But when you look up there, like where the existing houses, there's the wall that goes off there. Is it on part of that or is it that's what we're talking about. Yes, that would be the idea. But that wall is nine feet, I want to say. And by the time they construct it and they get us in there, it's going to be like eight feet of usable space. And if you do a dinner table there, it you ain't fit in before people around there. So that's the idea is my uncle has a great outdoor space. Our in-laws have a great outdoor space. We really enjoy that aspect, and we want to be able to host entertaining and watch a football game. But that wall will fit it. But it ain't going to have any tables and chairs there unless we get that little bit out. Come in here. And again, the problem is redesigning it and coming only on that west wall would be I'd have to go all the way to the east to be able to get a wall to mount things on again. Now we're up against the fence. The fence door is there, so I'm going to be moving a fence and all those things and, you know, the concrete or whatever. The footers will be different. It'll be using a lot more of that space. Okay. Thank you. Sure. Am I allowed to ask Ali, can I ask you a question? I'm sorry. Please go. Yes, sir. Ali, can you help me understand what the logic behind the variance with having a covered roof versus having the screen roof? What? What that difference is, is predicated on. So it's really been staffs interpretation of the pool screen enclosure section that a pool screen enclosure has an open screen roof. We have applied across consistently across the board. Anytime someone has a screen enclosure that if it has any sort of solid roof covering, this can be if it's actual pool screen enclosure, any portion is a solid roof. We apply the zoning district setback standards to it, so anything that has a solid roof gets those standards of the zoning district setbacks applied. Another example where we apply that say if people some people ask us if they can do like a pergola or something, you know, a covered pavilion out in their yard that's larger than our accessory structure, you know, 200ft■!S. It's extra structure allowance, zoning, district setbacks apply because it's a solid roof. Really, the only leniency that we've provided is if, like, what they're doing is just a screen enclosure that doesn't have a pool. If it has an open screen, we allow them to or allow people to take advantage of those reduced setbacks. So that's really the interpretation that has been of the code. And it's been applied consistently across the board. So anytime there's a hard roof, we apply the zoning district setbacks. Thank you. Okay. And to double check any points of support or objection submitted from neighbors, we did not receive any responses. Anything. Obviously no one is here. This evening with that. Got a lot of looks. I can tell you that everybody loved the sign. The big yellow sign. Oh yeah, that those yellow signs tend to pique people's interest. They sure do. Hang on. What are you doing? We have to remember to ask. And I was like, I want to put something in cool. I guess no one did. So thank you for that point of clarification of the roof with having some sort of affiliation with pools. And obviously you don't have a pool. Yeah, okay. So since yes, ma'am, just follow up question for Ali related to that, if it if it was not screen, but if it was a glass enclosure, an extension of the house roof line, would it be the same with a roof on top. Yeah. Yeah. Same. We would still apply setbacks. Yes. And I think if it was. Yeah. Yeah. Because you wouldn't have a screen on top of glass. Yes. If there was a roof like a Florida room. Yeah. It's really. Yeah a solid roof. We have applied it like a structure. So to go one level up, what if it was an addition zoning district setbacks. Yes. Okay. So if it was an addition they are still at the. Yeah. The 30 30ft. Yep. Really the only there's very specific encroachments that the land development Code allows you to have. You know, reduced setbacks or allow you to go into a required setback. So one are, like I mentioned, accessory structures, like a shed of certain sizes allow you to be, you know, five feet from your rear inside property line, the pool screening closures we have and swimming pools have very specific setback standards, which we talked about how if it's an open screen, they can be five feet from your rear property line or outside of an easement. There's also a section in the code that just talks about encroachments. So you know, a deck, for example, with no covering or whatnot is allowed to go so many feet into a rear yard. So there are some allowances, but it's very specific in the land development code. So like I said, with any sort of hard roof, hard covering, it's been treated like any other typical structure and it has, you know, we apply the zoning district setbacks. Does it make a difference that it's attached to the house? Or if it was detached from the house? So, so in some instances, depending on like sizes it would make a difference. But if it's attached to the house, it's essentially usually an addition. But this size if it was detached would still be larger than the accessory structure. So you brought up a good point about the which we've dealt with a lot of pool screen enclosures and setbacks for not only the pool screen enclosure itself, but then the setback for the pool with the water's edge. So if there were, what what what are the setback requirements if there were to be a pool, not thinking of the screen, a pool here. So if a pool screen would be five foot and then if memory serves correct, I want to say it's like three. So. So if a swimming pool. Yeah. So we'll just talk about a rear setback. Typically a swimming pool has to be I should probably pull this. Oh I'm so sorry I got my rear and my sides confused on my poo. So it's so the swimming pool from the rear property line is measured actually from the deck. So it's five feet from the pool deck, whereas the side is measured from water's edge. And then there is you're probably thinking the three foot separation distance between water's edge and a screen enclosure. Correct. And that's something that's in addition to a screen enclosure setback. So that's why you've seen several variances where say there's an existing pool on a property that's been there for an eternity and someone wants to screen it in. They don't have the separation distance. So sometimes they'll ask for either a reduced setback or reduce separation. Those are some of the variances that you maybe are thinking of. Right okay. Yeah. Thank you. I got my the rear and the side of the pool. Yeah. And then and just and as a caveat for pool, just to clarify if there is any sort of easement like there is on this particular property, there's a ten foot rear easement. The code is specific that you have to be outside of an easement. So even though it allows you to go five feet, in this case you'd have to be at least ten feet. Gotcha. Just to put that on the record, and I think correct me if I'm wrong, but in some of our discussions, you know, with when there's an existing footprint and it's been pretty close, the fact that that existing footprint carried some weight with this board, I would say that's up to the board. Oh, I'm just I'm so typically if there's in some ways it would be easier if it was still there, you know, the and it was fixing. I wish it was. We enjoyed it. You know like fixing it, upgrading the fact that it's been completely removed is a little more difficult question for you. Was there a roof on the existing deck? No. It was open and we enjoyed it. But again, it was getting to the noseeums. It was like, God, we could only be out here. So often and then the sun beat you down. There's not a lot of shade in that property. Unfortunately. It's blazing. It's hot right? Sir, we can well, obviously close for public comment, given there's no public. So open things up to continue for any board discussion. I appreciate everyone bringing up some very valid points, asking some thoughtful questions of Miss Keen and. What, what I always try to remind myself of is why we are sitting here today is being the human element of the black and white written codes to give some sense of logic and understanding of the actual usage of our of our properties and our homes in respect to our codes and the spirit of things, as opposed to what our fine counsel has. The duty of upholding the letter of the law. So if we don't have any discussion, any further discussion, is there. I'd like to have a call for possibly a motion. I'll make a motion for approval. Okay. Do we have a second? I'll second. Okay. We have a motion and a second. Can we have roll call? Mr. Fuchs? Yes. Mr. Wood? Yes, miss Rich? Yes, miss Turner. Yes. Thank yo. Happy building screening. Thank you. Planting. We'll get there. The fun's just starting now, so I appreciate it. Definitely. Like I said again a tremendous job to Ali Patricia the staff the technical review committee just everything has been great. And to your point it's like as I understood it, the way Ali explained it is like, look, I'm here to give the letter of the law. This is what it is. But the board can do what the board does and I appreciate what you've done today. Thank you. Thank, thank you for caring and loving for your home and our community so much. And we are very fortunate to have talented and caring staff. Thank you. Yeah, I've lived in Florida or Tarpon 45. Well, I'm 45. I've lived here 35 of those 45. The only ten I was away was when my wife went to college in UCF. As soon as we had a kid, we were back home, back to Tarpon. So we're near lifelong residents, been here a long time and super happy and proud of the city. Love it. Well thank you. We wish you all the best, sir. All right, mayor. All right, am I good? Yes, sir. Thank you all. Will give you instructions moving forward on during normal business hours. Sounds good. Thank you so much. Take care. You okay? Do we have any news or business from Miss Keane? From the staff? I don't have a lot. I'm sorry, because it's been three months since we've all joined each other. The only couple items I had were one. Officially, our comprehensive plan has been accepted by the state and it is effective and going strong. So again, thank you. Over the past, like million of years, three years for everyone who participated through that process. So we're happy that that is done. And we can now apply it. I will provide to you the 2025 schedule. I intended to bring it to you tonight and then I failed to do so. So I will give that to you at your next meeting. We do have one application on that agenda. And then other than that, I wish everyone a happy Thanksgiving. And we have two openings on the board. So share, share the news. When is the next. Can you remind us when the next meeting? Sure. I believe it's December 18th, but let me double check. So we're skipping November with the holidays. This is November. This is November 20th. Hard to believe. Couple months. It's okay. They're with you. Oh yes, it's December 18th. Is the meeting. No. Yes. We have one item on the agenda. Okay, okay. All right. Well, thank you. And congratulations on all the hard work with the comprehensive plan. We are very happy. Huge undertaking. Do we have any comments from the board? Well, I'm sorry we didn't get to wish George goodbye since he served, like, decades here. Well, George is watching. We appreciate all the time and effort that he put into the board and his time serving his community. We appreciate it. And I know he's happily being around the country and he's enjoying his retirement. We did send him a thank you card. Yes, we did send him a thank you on behalf of the city and the board. So thank you for doing that. All right. So if we don't have any other comment, I believe we will see each other again come December 18th and I will adjourn our meeting at 659. So let's go. Oh, I know, I know, I said I you're rambling.