I call to order. I call to order . The regular session of the Board of Commissioners of the City of Tarpon Springs on Tuesday, July second, 2024 at 6:30 p.m. Roll call, please. Mayor Vatikiotis here. Vice mayor Kouleas here. Commissioner Eisner here. Commissioner Collins here. Commissioner DiDonato here, this evening's invocation will be given by Reverend Christina Gris, senior chaplain of Advent Health North Pinellas. If we can remain standing and turn and pledge allegiance to the flag. Posted this far. Good evening. Let's bow our heads for prayer. Holy God, first I want to thank you for this. Men and women who have dedicated their lives, their time and their talents to serve this city and contribute to its well-being. I pray for each one of them, for all their ideas, their dreams, their strategies, their plans that you guide them and keep them on the right path. I also pray for strength and wisdom as they face challenges and obstacles and difficult decisions. May you strengthen them and keep them focused. And now I pray for this meeting tonight for your wisdom, for your presence and for your spirit. May conversations be seasoned with grace and kindness, and may decisions be made for the good of this city and for those who call Tarpon Springs their home. This I pray in your loving name. Amen. Amen I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the pair of Georgia stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all, before we get started, I want to identify a couple of people up here, wanted our my far right is Assistant Chief Ruggiero. He's sitting in for our, our police chief, Jeff Young. And then we have our new general counsel, Mr. Andrew Dickman, who's sitting to my immediate right. Welcome Thank you. Okay, we're going to have one proclamation this evening. Good evening, guys. Agenda also standing to my immediate right is, Mr. Jamie Taylor. Mr. James Burke, and miss, de Juliana Day. Okay the proclamation reads, whereas proclaiming July as Parks and Recreation Month in an opportunity for our community and local leadership to officially acknowledge the importance of our parks and recreation and the benefits provided to the people we serve. And whereas since 1985, people across the United States have celebrated Parks and Recreation Month to promote building strong, vibrant, resilient communities to recognize the workers and volunteers that maintain our community parks. And whereas parks and recreation programs enhance the quality of life for our residents by providing places of enjoyment and allow opportunities for young people to live, grow and develop in a place for older citizens to maintain healthy hearts and minds and to easy to easily access the great outdoors. And whereas during Parks and Recreation Month observance, it is important to recognize the contributions of our dedicated employees and volunteers who provide and preserve the quality of our parks and the recreation opportunities offered to our residents and to many visitors that we serve. And whereas it is most appropriate to recognize the hard work and dedication of our parks supervisor, James Burke and staff and our Recreation Superintendent, Jamie Taylor, and staff for the enormous value we receive every day from these departments. Now, therefore, I, Kostas Vatikiotis, by virtue of the authority vested in me as mayor of the City of Tarpon Springs, Florida, do hereby proclaim July 2024 as Parks and Recreation Month. Congratulations gentlemen. I have two of them. There you go, would either of you like to say a few words or Miss Day? I'm not sure, if you can just introduce and introduce us and. And then also maybe, say a little bit about the 4th of July. Oh, well, go ahead. You got it. Honorable mayor, board of commissioners, thank you very much. It's a, quite an honor to be up here. Really just, appreciative of the support from city leadership from the board. For recreation programing for their special events that we have as well, throughout the city, we're fortunate to have a great staff throughout the city, different departments and in particular, really proud and fortunate to have the staff that I have under me at the Recreation Department, everyone from all our part time staff, all the way up to the full time guys, they're, extremely dedicated and, definitely very fortunate. We also have a lot of input from our citizens, like Miss Day on our Parks and Rec advisory board, that help us with make our decisions and shape the future of recreation here in Tarpon. Thanks Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Thank you. Board, just want to say that we couldn't accomplish the things that we do on a daily basis without the dedicated employees that we have. Thank you. Yes, sir. For yesterday. Thank you. You're welcome. No problem. Thank you, thank you, yester, we had a little incident with, Bay news nine reporter dropping some electronic equipment in the bayou and weren't sure what we're going to do, so we called. I called public works. I didn't I thought the city was right. At lunch time. I knew the city manager would be out. And, James got on the phone and he came down with Mike and, swimming pool net and fished that thing right out for him. So I'm not. Anyway, I'm not asking you to call anybody, but this was a special thing, and I very much appreciated that. Thank you very much. I forgot to mention we're having a 4th of July celebration at Craig Park on Thursday from 10 to 1. Come on out. It'll be a great time for the family and everyone, do it every year and it's always a good time. Thanks. Thank you, thank you. I should ask, whether there's any public comments on the Parks and Recreation. Proclamation If anyone online would like to talk on this item, please raise your hand to be allowed in. Go ahead, Mr. Delicas. Thank you. Peter Lack is 514 Ashland Avenue. Not having a copy of the proclamation to read some of the excerpts that you read, but the overall tone is the city is interested in keeping a good parks and recreation system going. And one of the things it says, it increased the quality of life. And we've seen that in many reports since the pandemic where people did start going outdoors more and it helped them with stress, health issues because they're out walking, breathing fresh air. And on one of the lines it says, increase your awareness of the great outdoors. So I implore this board to look at places where they can maintain or create additional open space and parks for the people to get out to relax, enjoy, meditate, hike, experience nature in its true grandeur. The city has that opportunity and I believe coming forth that will be a potential. So I looked at the city, looks at all options of increase in their park land and these amenities to the citizens here who are quite concerned about the environmental degradation degradation that's occurring in our area. So I would implore the board to continue to support our parks and recreation department. As it was mentioned, we do have a hard working staff, and both of those departments that provide amenities to us here. The residents of the city, to remind them that one of the reasons we are a great city is because we are a full service city. Thank you. Okay is there anyone else? Good evening Anita froze. 901 Bay Shore Drive. I have two items to bring before you again. 11th time asking about the no smoking signs for the library. Yesterday I went to the library and as I came out, I don't know what they were smoking out there, but it tasted very, very smelled. Not too he tasted, but you could smell the sweetness of whatever they were smoking. And these are children coming in and out of the library, adults coming in and out. We need to have and they've done it in other communities. No smoking on library property and on our government property here. I'm concerned about the library because this summer a lot of children are using our facilities, and I hear the mothers talking and it's not good. So I don't know what the problem is that you can't make the signs and put them out there, in the courtyard, there and in front of the building. No smoking on the property. The second item, I'm asking a question. What have you all found out about grants for the sewer hookups? Because we are tarpon. People who sleep here pay our water and sewer bills, pay our taxes, support our community and our elected officials. And I have people on my street, Bayshore, around the corner from me that are getting ready to sell their houses. They've had it. And also when I heard that one family, one resident on South Florida Avenue was quoted $80,000 to hook up to the city sewer. And that's what his son told me. That's appalling. If you can buy property and we can do all this stuff, you need to be able to take care of the residents of the community. That is part of your job. Thank you. Okay, I we're not quite into public comments yet, but. Mr. Licorice, I know the staff's working on an outside smoking policy. That was the last time with the library, the last time this came up. I'm not sure whether we are on that or. Yes, but that won't hold up. The, the signs. Okay, we'll work on the signs and. Okay Do we need any kind of an ordinance change or anything with that, we'll look into it, but I don't think. I think the signs will take care of that. This is just going to be a library policy or, just the ones outside the library. The other policy will probably need something that we're working universal wise. All right. But that's the one we can take care of now. And you know, the compliance will come with the signs. Compliance usually comes. And I know the grants are still in progress. It's too early to tell, too early too early on them yet. But they're in progress. All right, are now I'm going to open it up to if there's no further comments concerning the recreation, proclamation parks and Rec ROC proclamation, then I'll go to public comment. So, Miss Taylor, you have a comment on the Parks and Recreation Proclamation. Go ahead. Taylor, 1991, Douglas Lane, Tarpon Springs I wanted to commend the Parks Department. Jamie and James and Julia for doing an excellent job at the park for Juneteenth, it went really smooth. And parks and Rec really represented the city well, so I wanted to just tell the commissioners that. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. Ditto, Zeb Atkinson, 621 East Orange. Ditto for the Juneteenth celebration. I have been to several of the celebrations at Tarpon Springs. Has. And but this was the first time that I've ever really interacted with parks and RECs prior to and during, an event. And from Ashley, Jamie, you know, everybody on down, they did a great job. I know the guys from the, maintenance like whoever cuts the grass, they came out there before and made sure that the park was all nice and clean. Grass was cut and everything, and really was an excellent job. And I'm looking forward to next year. Okay. Thank you, I apologize. Okay. Are there any other, Are there any other comments on the Parks and Recreation Proclamation? And if not here, Mr. Morais, are there any from a remote access? We do not have any raised hands at this time. Okay. Thank you. Let's go to regular public comments on anything that's not on the agenda. And speakers have four four minutes. Is there any public comments, Mr. Graham? Graham Jones 2056 North Point, Alexis Drive, Tarpon Springs. Honorable Mayor and Board of Commissioners each month from the clerk's office, I received my utility bill. The email version is remarkably unattractive, akin to technology from the early 1970s, but the paper bill is well constructed and clear and I applaud that. I propose, though, that the city enhance these communications to better serve the citizens of Tarpon Springs by including brief notices of upcoming events and new items on Connect Tarpon. Updates to projects on the project manager's spreadsheet, and similar information. These communications would be very useful and helpful. Secondly, I appreciate that the city publishes the working copy of the detailed budget as it evolves, revealing all of its intricate details. Many citizens myself included, study it carefully. However, it is disappointing that the provided PDF contains only images of the printed pages instead of searchable text. This greatly limits the functionality of the document, and it would be of significant benefit to the community if the budgetary figures were presented as searchable text within the PDF. If someone could take care of that, maybe for next year, I would greatly appreciate it. Thank you. Okay, Mr. Jones? Yes, sir. The searchable PDF, I'm going to suspect that you under you know, that that PDFs can be searched and there's types of PDFs that cannot be searched. Is that correct? Yes. Okay So you're basically, you know, that this one cannot be searched. Yes. Okay. Got it. And it would be much more useful if it could be searched I understand. Thank you very much. No, you're right. I search PDFs all the time. And they are how it is helpful when you can go to what you need directly. Unless you're the NSA and you can search things in images, which I'm not. All right. Thank you. I want to apologize. I thought you were through with the recreation. Go ahead. But I want to welcome our new attorney. He's a Gator, and I hope he's as tough as the Gators are with all of you. Thank you. Okay. Are there any other public comments? You guys have a fight right here. Oh, don't do it, is that back in season six, 21, Sean Street again? Again. Parking regs did a wonderful job, and I did that during Parks and Rec. So just in case you guys have to leave that, that's fine, while we were at Juneteenth, we thought it was a great opportunity to take a survey of the people that were there about some of the things that the community has been talking about. And I have the surveys. I didn't want to kill too many trees, so I don't know if I can give it to give it to miss Jacobs. Okay, one of them was talking about a community pool or splash pad or splash splash pad, and there were 46 people that said that they would like to see something happen in the in the park, around the a pool or splash or pool slash splash pad. And then the other thing that the community has been talking about is opening up Disston Avenue. And for whatever reason, that's a sore subject. I know we just took a couple of different surveys to see what people were talking about, and there were 39 people that would like to see Distant Avenue open, so I can give all this stuff. There's another one. We talk about a flashing light at Martin Luther King and Distant, but we're talking with, Officer Boone about that, later on this month, and whatever the results are, we'll bring that back also. All right. Thank you. Katie Taylor, 1991 Douglas Lane, Tarpon Springs, Florida, to the commissioners as a citizen, born and raised in Tarpon Springs, from my childhood, I attended schools here. And I'm pleased to at this point in my life, to be able to volunteer to be a dedicated committee alternate member on the Publix Arts Council. I look forward to one day becoming a seated member on this board, which I have found to have very good a group of dedicated people with good intentions in the in the last commissioners meetings, I was glad that a colleague who had been an alternate for over a year before I came on board, became a seated member as we know it. Take years sometime for seats to open up on the board, on boards in this city. What I did not appreciate was Vice Mayor Coolio's comments before the commissioners voted, which appeared to be an attack on my character for the second time, with only two candidates on the ballot myself being one, this is the second time Vice Mayor Coolio's has told other. The other commissioners they must be careful of people getting on these boards with special agendas. With my name was involved. It is very unbecoming of a vice mayor, who may be planning on running for mayor of this great city, to not hear the concerns presented by citizens or board members without the appearance of attacking them. I would like to reiterate to the commissioners and the Art Council that I volunteered to be on this board to do my best to help bring positive light to the city of Tarpon Springs and for the betterment of all communities. I recommend that the Art Council and the commissioners be more in tune with the community or members of their boards when offered ideas to help avoid negative media. Their input has thus far fallen on, has fallen on deaf ears. As we all know, this election time and we must be mindful of who we elect as mayor of this great city. It's important we know that person's agenda, a copy of this will be sent to, Irene Jacobs. And thank you all and God bless us. Okay. Miss, at the end of the public comments, I usually wait till the end of public comments. If somebody's named in a comment for allow them to respond to it. Miss Cruzado give you. Good evening, Mr. Mayor. And commissioners. I welcome you, Mr. DiDonato. Nice to have you here, my name is Wendy Cruzado. I live at 616 Palm Avenue. Tarpon Springs. I would like to address the issue of fireworks. I have nothing against the celebrating of holidays. I am aware that there's three legal holidays in the state of Florida, which is I believe, New Year's Eve, New Year's and Independence Day. And we have a lot of different people that live in this city, and a lot of us want to celebrate and let off, fireworks and bombs, and that's fine. And I appreciate the city doing the big display at, Fred Howard Park for us. And, it's safe there, but what is going on over the last ten years, I've lived here for 34 years, and I've been watching an increase of just just craziness happening right in my own neighborhood. And I get around the city every day, and I'm it's not just in my neighborhood. And I talked to a lot of people, and we're going from, you know, fireworks to pipe bombs and smoke bombs and explosives and who knows where we're even going to go with this. It just keeps getting worse every year. And right around me, I am being bombarded around my house and those who suffer, the veterans that suffer with stress disorders and elderly people. I myself suffer with migraines. You have no idea what it's like until you're trying to just exist with a migraine and you have bombs going off around you, let alone the animals and trying to comfort your animals. Again, I am not against celebrating. I'm not against fireworks, but I think that we need to do something more to regulate where they're being set off, like we're we're providing a place, but people are getting carried away. And it isn't just the kids, it's adults too. And I see it and the it isn't just one day now for the holiday. It's sometimes one day before or two days before. It's already started. In my neighborhood, they're doing it right now as I came here and it lasts. Usually the people that if it gets rained out, they'll be blowing them off a day, two days later. And there are people who actually work and have to get up and I know for myself. 132 in the morning, they're still going off. And people with newborn babies, I mean, you ever have a newborn baby and try to get the baby to sleep and the baby's crying all night and you have to get up and go to work the next day. And I just think it before it gets even worse, we need to do something and work together again. I'm not saying we can't have fireworks. I'm saying let's do more responsibility and hold people more accountable who just are just acting crazy. And I'm open to suggestions. That'd be great if we could come up with something to try to bring more unity here for everybody and make it more pleasant. Thank you so much. Thank you, Miss Corchado, just hang around, if you will, at the end of the public comments, I'm going to discuss this briefly with the city Commission. Are there any other public comments? Giuliana de 413 East Oakwood Street I can tell you last night, 3:00 I thought my house was falling in okay. And I live not even one block from the police station. That's how loud it was. Also, the speeding cars in the neighborhood. I want to address late at night, two and 3:00 in the morning, and they keep going round and round the block. I mean, burning rubber, speeding through the street in Oakwood Street is a street that is not safe for speeding because we have a tree that comes out into the road, the roots and stuff. So we have that going on. Now. Did I get the call? No. Why? Because if I live a block away from your office, you heard it too. Thank you, thank you. Mr. Are there any other public comments for, from anyone that, that hasn't spoken yet? Good evening, Mayor and commissioners, tonight's reading will be from Proverbs 12. Various verses. And again, as I mentioned, I looked up honesty this time. The plans of the righteous are just. But the advice of the wicked is deceitful. The words of the wicked lie in wait for blood, but the speech of the upright rescues them. Wicked men are overthrown and are no more. But the house of the righteous stands firm. The way of a fool seems right to him. But a wise man listens to advice. A fool shows his annoyance at once, but a prudent man overlooks an insult. A truthful witness gives honest testimony, but a false witness tells lies. Reckless words pierce like a sword. But the tongue of the wise brings healing. Truthful lips endure forever. But a lying tongue lasts only a moment. So I really wanted to kind of go on, move on from explaining, Frank's. I wouldn't say lies, but maybe misinterpretations or beliefs as to things that may have occurred and were known. So at the last meeting, Mr. DiDonato mentioned that the board had discussed these issues. So if you do go to the website, documents, public document access, you put in abr's the search you do from various dates and three items come up on July 27th, 1999, a work session where the ABR property was talked and what that was about was they were wanting to let me see where that one was. 9922 Amending the future Land use of 11.54 acres on the ABR property that were brought forward by Mr. Armstrong, representing ABR. So on that date, there was a workshop. Then on August 3rd of 1999, there was a regular session meeting where a number of three items were discussed regarding various comprehensive plan changes that they had to send to the Florida Department of Community Affairs to get approval. And then once they got approval on that, it came back to a meeting on August. Correction the first reading was August of third of 1999, and the second was March of 2000. Now on all of these, they discussed the land use change, which again, as Mr. DiNardo said, I could have changed during my time there, but again, the land use change or zoning change, as you all know, have to come from the owner of the property. I can't change it even if I'm a commissioner. And if I was to have initiated any some action after the end of October of 92,008, maybe early 2009, when Walmart decided no longer to build there, if we had done anything one, it probably would have caused suits if we had changed it because they would have said, you've downgraded their property. So and all four of these meetings that occurred from July of 99, work session, August 3rd of work, a regular session and then like I mentioned, the March 2000 were the second reading was done and they approved it. They did change some of 11.54 acres of commercial general to, preservation. So one, they did change land use. Two, there's no record, as Mr. DiDonato referenced at the last meeting, that this was discussed before the board. And I have read that letter a number of times where I did say they were b.c.c. Mr. Delicous, but I'm giving a copy. Is after the fact. Thank you. Are there any other public comments? Mr. Mori, are there any, remote access comments? We will unmute the next zoom attendee. Zoom attendee. You are unmuted. Please state your name and address for the record. Is there any more public comment ? Thank you. We do not have any other raised hands at this time. Okay. Mr. Sachs, are you got any public comments? I'm going to. I know you don't show up here to listen to all of our machinations, but please go ahead. Yes, I do, I agree with the lady about the fireworks. The reason the ancient of the fireworks were in regards to winning a war. I think it would be a beautiful idea of tarpon Springs just to spend all the fireworks. I got a couple of dogs that run through my house. Crazy. Every time there's fireworks, and it'd be a statement to the entire nation if we did that. It's glorifying war. We don't want to glorify war. That's my opinion on that. There's another issue I wanted to discuss. The parks. I wanted to bring up the stone anchor thing again. I was hoping that I could get the commission to vote on the stone anchors at the old son Bay motel, the reason why I would like a vote by the commission is I feel a little hesitant to do that, without a vote for the from the commission. Because I would like the city on my side putting a stone anchor circle over at the Sunbeam Motel. And the only way I can get the city on my side is to have a unanimous vote for that project. When I started this project, I started it with Frank DiDonato. How many ever years ago he was mayor. And then I went through Anita and Bev and Dave and, Chris. And now we're with Kosta. That's six, six mayors. I've gone through trying to pitch this idea. The city of Tarpon Springs is a glorious town. I know that from Archeologically speaking. And I believe that that the town actually represents the Greek garden of Hesperides. So it's appropriate to have a Greek community with all the evidence indicating that Tarpon Springs was that Greek Garden of Hesperides. And the way we can, geodetically. Mark the Spring Bayou. That was a spring of rejuvenating life that Poseidon built. I know when I talk about Poseidon, a lot of people think I'm out of my mind. But the evidence is there that he dug out the Anclote River by hand and that it was an 85 foot giant. He may have been from another planet, but he did justice to this area. And so I don't know if the commission has enough of my information to vote positively on that stone circle, but we would have the only ancient stone arch anchor circle in the world, and it would draw a lot of attention to tarpon Springs. That would make it a pilgrimage spot for all righteous people all over the world. So those two things I wish we could get rid of the fireworks glorifying war, and we could put up that stone circle of peace. That's all I have to say, Mr. Saxer, you know, it takes three votes to do anything up here and in the back, on that little table, unless things have changed, there should be a business card for each of the commissioners. So I encourage you to get those cards and call each one. Explain it to them a little more in depth than what you've done tonight, right? I could also provide literature that they would be able to see too. Thank you, Mr. Saxer. Thank you. Are there any other public comments? Okay, Vice Mayor Kelly, I'm going to turn it over to you if you've got any, a response. Sure. Thank you. Mayor, I just wanted to respond back to Miss Taylor and you know, those comments, they were never addressed specifically to Miss Taylor. As she may have stated, there's been several times in which I've stated on the record at least three different times recently in which I stated in general, that for public art committee members that their job is to help come up with art that best reflect Tarpon Springs and not just come up with their own ideas. And I also stated it at the PAC annual meeting that happened about three meetings ago. I also stated it two meetings ago when we went to do the direction of the art statue, as well as last week when we went and did the appointment. And so those those comments were directed just as much to Miss Jennings, to Mr. Graham and everyone on the public art committee. And so, you know, Miss Taylor at one point came up here and said she liked me for my transparency. Well, I try to be as transparent as possible and, you know, my agenda is to look out for tarpon Springs, the community of Tarpon Springs. And it's that simple. So at times, each commissioner comes, may take the lead of looking like the bad person or the bad guy. But we do have to come together as a commission to move forward. As a community. And I would also recommend that we do our homework when it comes to agenda items and each and every board before they're brought up. So we can see the full transparency on these items. So I appreciate Miss Taylor's comments and, her volunteering on the public art committee and look to see more projects in the future. And, we'll come together as a commission. And so I hope you like my transparency, because I am being as transparent as possible. Thank you. Thank you, Commissioner DiDonato, do you have any comments? Well, I'm not going to dwell on the matter. There is a procedure. You're correct. Peter, in fact, it's been done in the city before, and I'm happy to be one of the people that did it. You do have to go to the person who owns the property and ask them if they would consider a rezoning, or you have to suggest or get the city to approach and try to negotiate that kind of deal. It was done on Jasmine for the football and soccer fields, and it might it could have been done again. My point was that he didn't make the effort to do that. And you know, the procedure. You also know there was a do which which for everybody. That's a development order on that same piece of property that he keeps talking about that that deal was through 2004. That was out of office in March of 2004. It was there that whole time. It's been there the whole time. There. Again, there's nothing from the county ever indicating that they were going to purchase that land other than hearsay at a city manager's meeting for Pinellas County. So I'm just simply saying it is possible to negotiate a zoning change, and it is possible to make it more affordable. It's exactly what happened on the football and soccer fields. So that is there. Okay, miss Crystal made some comments concerning the fireworks and honestly, I'm I'm on board with her, especially in the wee hours, you know, fortunately, we don't have anyone living with my wife and myself that are that are sensitive to the noise except our pet, who we have to wrap in a thunder jacket each time these events occur. I'd like to get the thoughts or comments from any of the commissioners that, just to kind of give a little credence, to the city manager, if that's the direction that the commission would like to go in terms of a little bit stronger enforcement on these in the neighborhoods, I know that might be it's not going to be a perfect but but, effort. But maybe it would be something that, it would be helpful for the city manager to hear what the, commissioners preferences would be. And also the public's as well. So, Vice Mayor Kelly, do you have anything to say about this? Mayor, it's going to be tough to regulate and have the police officers show up for days at a time. I understand people are going to call in and it may be a direction to have those police officers show up, but when they leave again and you're hearing them all around your neighborhood, fireworks going off, it's difficult. And I, I used to have two dogs that would literally eat their way through the drywall at my house when the fireworks were going off. So I understand the frustration. I just don't know how we can make a policy that's going to put stress on them, like the police department for days at a time before. So I'm not so sure about the policy, but it's more of the enforcement and that would be the city manager's responsibility. I'm just, if it was kind of a mixed, opinion up here, then then the city manager would view it one way. If he's got a sense of the consensus of the commission, then he's probably going to look at it a little different way. So I'm just trying to get that, out from each of you. This evening. Yeah. I'm I'd like to hear from the rest of the commission on how they'd like to proceed, but I don't see a policy or enforcement that we could be stretched on. All right, thank you, Vice Mayor Eisner. Anything please. Vice mayor. Pardon me. It's okay. Oh. I'm sorry, were you finished? Go ahead. No. I'm done, I'm done. Okay. Vice Mayor Eisner, so the question wasn't for us to decide, how to enforce the fireworks. Our question was how we feel about it. That's right, so I am not the police. I am not the city manager, so I'm going to make my comments accordingly as what I feel. I also have a dog that suffers from this, and I also have compassion for the people that have babies that have, people that have to get up in the morning. And we could, give this back to the city manager and, our excellent police force to decide how best they could, set guidelines or not, I'm not interested in how it gets enforced, but it is gets carried away, I am also into being very patriotic and celebrating, what goes on, I'm going to celebrate with my two grandkids and watch the fireworks, but I'm going to leave my wife to hold on to my dog, who's going to be pretty much shaking in the bed. And, you know, it's not a comfortable feeling, I've always believed that your party should not infringe on somebody else's well-being. And that's in effect, what really goes on with this when you don't have the animal or the kid sleeping, it's fun. It's a celebratory night, but we also have to be a bit compassionate for the people that are being inconvenienced. So I would look to give the city manager, to try to strategize with the police chief and see what is feasible for them, us to do, whether we're able to do it or not is irrelevant. We're trying to stop speeding, and that's sometimes irrelevant. We try to stop people from running through stop signs. That doesn't mean we remove the stop signs. So I don't agree with what I just heard about how we get it done, because it's not us to get it done, it's theirs to get it done. So that's my comment. Thank you. Okay, Commissioner Koulianos. Yeah I mean, I too have, a dog that hides under the bed, and shivers just like every the other commissioners do. You know, I'm hesitant as a commissioner to advise the police as to how and when they enforce laws. I don't think that's our job, I mean, we as as citizens, can tell the police when we're, would like them to do things, you know, for example, speeding or, you know, this whole thing with, with bombs. It's it has gotten out of hand. I mean, we, you know, the celebration, it, you know, it's like an excuse. It's an excuse to go overboard at times, you know, I, I'm wondering how if it's all, patriotic li motivated or whether it's just an excuse to, you know, let's get the bombs out. So, you know, again, I'm not going to tell the police how to enforce their laws. Now however, if the police came to us and says, hey, we need to increase our budget so that we have more officers in force on the holidays so that we can handle this better, then that would become our business, and it would be more than happy to look at that, to help them to do their job. So that's kind of where I'm at. That's good. Thank you, it's a difficult issue. I still believe that we're fortunate in this community right now to have both a city manager who is also a chief of police, and we have an excellent assistant chief and chief and police department in this community. I believe it is a more of a matter of that. But I also think that all of you in the public know that that's a really hard, hard thing to enforce. But we do need to at least try and control it, it does get out of hand frequently, and it is gotten to where a few days before and a few days after, and I guess they didn't use them all that night. I don't know, but whatever the, the police department and along with the city manager's expertise, if they could come up with something. But I can see the complexity. I see both sides of the issue. And I would authorize the city manager to look and see what can be done. Okay. Thank you. You know, I think the idea is, obviously not to tell the manager. City manager on how to do his job. It was just to hear some comments from the commission, and maybe that would be helpful to the city manager, from my perspective, I think every American needs to celebrate the 4th of July. It's the founding of our country and we should celebrate it. We should let people know how we feel, and I think that excuse works in my household till about 9:00 in the evening. And then from about nine till ten, I'm a little bit on borrowed time. And from about 10 to 11, my I, my wife has reached her limit with this. You know, celebrating the 4th of July and then after 11:00, she's got the police department's administrative phone number, and she's called them several times, and I'm sure she'll be calling him this time as well. So I for me, it's not the issue of the fireworks. During the day or early evening. That's fine. I think. But after a certain period of time, it does border on the ridiculous. And you're really infringing on other people's, solitude, whether it's, interrupting baby sleep, putting fear in pets and things of that nature. So that's the only thing I wanted to say, city manager, that I understand. I've dealt with it for 46 years. I know, and it's the same balancing act that it is not much of a change, and you're not going to go into another city and find that they've got this grand master solution to solve it. You balance, you take the calls that come in, you try to control it the best you can. I've heard people say, well, go out and arrest them. Well, let's say there's blank number of officers on board. I guarantee you in the first hour there'd be no officers on the road to patrol because they'd have arrests. So you have to balance and try to shut it down. Now you have somebody blatantly when you come up and tell them to do it, they throw one at you or something. Then you take care of that. But calling the complaints we have usually extra people working and it's just the balance of trying to go. And again, it's the same speech I've been giving for a lot of years until somebody state laws and that loophole on fireworks, Pinellas tried to close it up, but all you got to do is go just past the flea market in Oldsmar, or go over the county line and holiday and those stands that you sign, you're blowing up gopher holes or gophers in a field. You sign the thing there's no enforcement on. You can carry out a truckload of fireworks and stuff. And still till the state legislator, that's not going to stop it. People want them, they can get them. But it sure would help, if people couldn't drive again, the two places to drive is out Tampa Road to Hillsborough County line and to the Pasco County line. And you can fill your truck at these things to go off in the neighborhoods and stuff. And you know, sign the false affidavit committing perjury that you're you're, you know, controlling gophers. So that's that's another thing you can do to try to get that loophole in the state law done. But otherwise it's a balance and call in. And the police are going to go enforce and try to keep it down, especially the later hours that they can. So they will do that. And that'll be their direction to do two days from now. Yeah I think at least now the people that are watching, the video understand how the commission feel about it. Maybe that'll encourage people to be a little more sympathetic to everybody. So thank you very much, city manager. Of course. And Assistant Chief Ruggiero, you, you know, our police department is excellent. There's no issue with that. So we just wanted to share our thoughts. Thank you, Miss Cruzado, thank you. Let's go to the consent agenda. Do any of the commissioners wish to pull any of the items on the consent agenda? Okay. Consent agenda is item two. Approve signing of addendum to the Pinellas County Combined Mutual Aid Agreement. Item three, ratifying increase to file number 230110. Body armor and ballistic vest utilizing State of Florida contract. Item four is award number, file number 240141 single source purchase of sulfuric acid. Item five is renew file number 220153. Wireless data. Voice accessories utilizing National Association of State Procurement Officials master agreement, are there any public comments on any of these items? Mr. Mori, are there any remote access comments? We do not have any raised hands at this time. Okay, commissioners, any comments on any of these, I have a motion and a second to approve the consent agenda. Second. Okay. Roll call, please. Commissioner DiDonato. Yes, Commissioner. Collins. Yes, Commissioner Eisner. Yes. Vice mayor Coolio's. Yes. Mayor. Vatikiotis Okay, what I'm going to do is. Well, we'll just go ahead and continue with the, consent agenda. Item six is discussion and direction on mixing history and public art. I'm going to turn that over to you, city manager, chorus or do you want me to talk about a little bit or, why don't you go ahead and. Well, the city manager, licorice and of course, myself from a historic perspective, many years ago. This is a this is not a new issue. This is always a, when you start mixing history, especially personalities. And in in Tarpon Springs with art and, and, and actually utilizing real people to, celebrate, some aspect of tarpon, whether it's unity, whether it's women's contribution to the founding of Tarpon Springs. I think all those good intentions sometimes go misunderstood. They become misunderstood, and they think it's more of a of a memorial or a commemoration of the individual families. And it's not. And unfortunately, Tarpon Springs has had a problem with that, whether it's statues and, and the model for the statue is, is, you know, it's a Greek sponge diver. And the model of the statue is not Greek. And so forth. And I think that we've probably need to rethink that policy and limit, the historical, aspects of our public art in terms of personalities, individual personalities, families and so forth. And I'm not saying that there isn't a place for that in Tarpon Springs that there is a place for that, but that should not be, basically, championed by the public Art Committee. That should be championed privately, as was the sponge diver, sponge diver that was not part of any public art effort. That was as a result of an individual donating, wanting to donate the Sponge Diver statue. And there was a whole lot of, fuss over the location of it, but nevertheless, that was resolved. And it's there. But sometimes that sponge diver statue becomes a lightning rod of the fact that that's there. And why isn't something else there and so forth. So I think we need to rethink, the policy, of how we, commemorate certain aspects of our city, our beautiful city, unity, it some, aspects of it like, people's contribution to, the city's development and so forth without actually, putting that burden on any individual family or, or, specific personalities, that find themselves in some way or another in the artwork. So that's what I wanted to say. And again, you know, this the mayor and I have been around a long time. This precedes the art committee, or this goes way back into time, even to do with benches, with, with all things this, this has gone back a long way and stuff. And I think, as we've seen from some recent ones, there are a lot of issues that come up for them. And again, it's not just related to the public art, it's happened back before. So we need to be careful. We need to look at it. And this board really, you know, you know, the purpose of this item is to give some direction on how we're going to, how we need to look at these things, how we need to not cause controversy, and, it's just something we need to talk about because we've seen some things occur that's repeats of things that's happened for the last 46 years I've been here. So that's why this item was put on to discuss and hear from everybody. And try to get to some medium, whether, you know, we need to just go back to some pure art from the art committee, and there's a whole nother process involving, you know, a bunch of different people, entities and stuff. If we're dealing with something like history, with a statue or something like that, it may be another method to do it. Aside from, the public art committee. That's right, vice mayor. Yeah Well, it's, I understand this. This has been going on for a while, but there seems to be a certain issue that helped bring this conversation back. And so, you know, it's I would still like to see the public art committee move forward. There's certain projects that have to have a historical perspective to bring with art in certain neighborhoods, to bring out and enhance. If you look at the mission statement, the mission statement for the public Art Committee talks about using these items to help enhance the nearby surroundings in the area. And so, you know, we're I would still like to see the public art committee move in that direction. And, we just have our due diligence. I'd like to, you know, everybody try to be involved as much as possible. And when you do have an opportunity to be involved, don't just ignore it or push it to the side and then try to address it at some point later, because it doesn't help any of us, especially when you have an influential voice in town. And so I think I would still like to see the public art committee be able to use, you know, projects or present projects that do have some historical art. Doesn't mean it has to be every one of them, but the residents don't want to see the Naiad statues at the sponge docks. They don't want to see certain things that have happened. And I hear it a lot. And so it's a balancing act. But you know, we need to try to get people from each community. And, you know, when art's being presented to try to get involved. And so that's just where I stand right now. I don't want to say no art in general. It doesn't have to do with any historical perspective, because then we're I mean, I don't know that the categories of it all, but then it seems to go into abstract art. And I don't mean necessarily abstract, but just a whole nother direction that I, you know, may not necessarily enhance the community. And so I really would like to let the art committee keep going the way they're going and just try to bring out all the information they can for items to, for everyone to see before making decisions. Thank you. Okay I should point out that, this isn't in response to anything concerning the sponge docks. The city manager and I go through a lot of things behind the scenes that you all never know that deal with individual families. And I want to point out that the city manager's, he's nodding strongly right now in that regard. So we do see a lot of things that don't make it up to the podium that we have to deal with and actually try and calm things down, in order for the work to get done. So there is a lot that goes on. And that's in addition to the things that you hear. And we receive emails on. There is a lot of things that have to be done behind the scenes to avoid any controversy. As well. So, if I I'm sorry, Commissioner Eisner. Thank you. Mayor. We all received a, request from the Sun Coast News, and it was for questions. And, we some of us may have answered them. Some of us did not. I answered every one of the questions, in in my interpretation of what happened at this past meeting, for some reason or another, none of what I wrote was printed. So I am here to read what I wrote because it's a public record, and, I've never shied away from transparency has been said earlier. I also was at the Dorset Park for, Juneteenth and, I was there and the ex-mayor, Archie, and I spoke and he said to me something that was dear to my heart. He said, you didn't answer me. I said, there's no reason to really answer you at this point. What you'll see, I'm going to say is in the newspaper . And then I was embarrassed to see that none of what I said was printed. But everybody other, every other commissioner was printed. So believe me when I tell you if anybody knows me, I called them and let them know my feelings. So I'm going to share that tonight. One of the questions that was. Asked was, I believe, in, what is your comment about the concerning installation of the project at the cap and how how was he left out of the loop? Is the question. And I believe they were referring to ex-Mayor Archie, and I said, I believe he was left out of the loop because the artist Stephen Oliver used previously published pictures readily available and didn't ask enough people, and he didn't ask enough people in the Union Academy. That was my comment that was left out. Question two do you think the city should address his concern and remove photos of his family from the fence project? Fair question, I wrote. This is between, I believe the artist and the park to decide which is right. I wasn't involved, so it's not going to be my decision to make. Number three, do you think Mr. Archie's concern should be discussed at a city commission meeting I wrote? We can discuss it, but we should be using the advice of the pack and not micromanaging their decisions, which is actually what happened. And I was a little bit annoyed that we were micromanaging the pack. We shouldn't be micromanaging any volunteer board, we're policy makers has been said numerous times. So then the last was feel free to expound with more of your opinions on the topic, and please see to it that you respond to this email so I can get it in the story. As soon as possible by Tuesday, which of course didn't happen. So I wrote and I think Mayor Archie knows. I know him for many years through rotary, and I don't have to read what I wrote because he's a quiet man. He's an honorable man. I've never heard one bad word, mayor Archie ever said about anybody, even when we've had actions that he was excluded from because we didn't see that he was there. I've personally gone up and said, mayor Archie, you're here. Let's announce that you're here. And he's the type that just will shake his hand and go, that's not for me. Ego is not his thing. Okay, so now you have an idea who this man is, and he's sitting here. So I wrote, I think, commissioner, the commissioner that brought this up has caused false accusations of an honorable ex-mayor, David Archie. I have known Mr. Archie for years from rotary. He's always been nice and respectful. This is just another false accusation coming from the same common denominator. He's falsely attacked me. My wife, the current mayor, the ex vice mayor, the city manager and the commissioner he's running against in the next election for mayor. We never know who's next. It's embarrassing to have to respond, but he leaves us no choice. He claims to be keeping people transparent while he himself is got the most questionable background. So I don't understand why all top quality people that come up here to devote their time, their effort and their lives to people who constantly claim transparency by doing character assassinations of people I am, I apologize profusely to Mayor Archie, and he knows that. And I felt mortified. And he said, it's not your fault. I said, it is. I sit on this board. I'm responsible for what comes out of the board's mouth. We should never be characterizing people the way it was characterized for 45 minutes while we had the PAC, Joan Jennings, sitting up here or trying to stand up here while she was, she and the whole PAC was being berated for something. We should not have any business dealing with. And that's my comments. And if anybody wants it, public record, it's there. I wrote it out of my email. Thank you. Okay Commissioner Collins, anything? Yeah. In regards to, history and art, you know, these these folks that choose to be on these, as Miss Taylor said earlier, when she came to the podium, they're volunteers. They they're not paid. They're not. They didn't they don't want any accolades. They're not, running for office. And they just want to serve their community. And, they appreciate art, and I appreciate art, you know, but again, when we get into history and art, there's oftentimes controversy. You know, it's I I'll date myself because I watch, The Andy Griffith Show, on, on on YouTube and, and they and they had an episode where they had the exact same problem. They had a statue. And, and then there was some controversy about who this guy was that they were putting the statue up and, and the and the town in Mayberry, which is, you know, this glorious, you know, wonderful town that they were having all these infighting between people over what was, the statue. So you know, and so, you know, this, this whole art piece, has kind of gotten a life of its own and, and, you know, it's and it's kind of a shame. I, I wouldn't mind a more a moratorium on historical art. And we just go back to things that, you know, make us happy. Right Like, I actually personally, I know it's not a real popular thing up here. I actually like the clock. You know, the clock by Craig Park. You know, it's a clock. I know what it is. It's nice. It's a pretty clock. I don't need it to tell time for me because I have my watch and my phone, but, it, it it is a nice accouterment to the, the community, you know, if you've ever been to Paris and you walk around, you'll see, obviously you got the big things. You got the Eiffel Tower, you got the Louvre, you've got all the beautiful those those things. But but what makes Paris so special is the little accouterments. Like, you might be standing on a bridge and you see up at the top of the bridge, there's a little angel sitting up there, you know, like , that's pretty cool. And you know, that's obviously art. I don't think any anybody got offended when they put the little angel up there, but it makes the town special. So you know, I don't mind if you guys spend more a little more time on the, just pretty just to make us happy, that would be nice as well, but, but then again, you know, maybe we need a policy or just a procedure that when we're doing, when they. And. And I don't want the art committee to be, you know, the targets of so many people there. Again, they're just volunteers trying to help. And then, you know, they're they're villainized, so I don't want to see that. So maybe we need a, some kind of a procedure that when you're going to get into historical stuff that it has to go through the, the, you know, Tarpon Springs historic Board or it has to go through a litany of, of filters before it actually gets, and then it has to come up here and let us be the bad guys on, on, approving something that, you know, may be controversial, but, for a while it would be nice just to have some pretty art. And let's stay off of, things that will divide us and things that we can all be happy to see. So that's just my two bits. Okay. Commissioner DiDonato, much of it has been said I we live in an historic area, an historic city, and throughout our the world history, as far as my knowledge, is concerned, the associated art and history frequently together, there's it's sometimes hard to differentiate, but it's obvious that because we all have personalities that probably a little more vetting should be done on anything that could be considered historical. But I again want to thank the Public Arts Committee. They've got a difficult job. And like Commissioner, Commissioner Kulina said, they don't get paid. They spend their time and they're doing the best they can. I was I was a little surprised because I talked to Mayor, former Mayor Archie as well. I've known him for years. I had the privilege of serving with him. I know what a reputable man he is, and I know he doesn't seek the limelight. And I know that for him to write that letter was difficult. I have a hard time understanding, and maybe that's just something we need to clarify when we put these projects in that, that because it was in his front yard, not his, but where he works, you would think that he would have known more about it and where it was going to be located. That was something I think we can improve on and in talking to the city manager, I know that we will, but I think anything that is that comes out of the art committee, if it has an historical significance, somehow we need to try and vet it as best we can, or maybe not. Not even do it. I, I don't know, it's hard to make everybody happy all the time, but my hat's off to the Public Arts Committee for doing what they've, what they've been doing. And, enough said. Okay, I'm going to go back to, commissioner vice mayor. He's got his lights on. But let me just say something, this is a policy discussion. It's not really related to any, one incident that has happened recently, the specifically with the issue with the artwork there at the cap center that is being dealt with, through the public art committee currently, along with the artist at that time. And there will be some, basically some information coming out of that at a later date. This is just typically of this is for the typical problems that we continually have in trying. To, commemorate some aspect of history of Tarpon Springs through artwork, and we get tangled up when we get into specific families and, and, and give them recognition over other families in town. And there seems to be some feelings on that. So it's not tied to any one specific, event that has happened recently. So, Vice Mayor Kolody, let me go back to you. Sure No, this just this one from, a direction on giving direction towards art to a little public attack, but that's okay. The point I wanted to bring up that same individual accusing of the public attacks actually followed the lead of the direction we gave during the discussion, and now seems to have a different approach on it for whatever reason. So, there are a lot of people proud about the way I had spoke up too, because it was important that people up here who are who are from this community do in fact speak up, especially when it comes to items that, are self-evident in recorded history . So, you know, we those comments towards me were were what they were. But at the same time, I stand firm and proud to love Tarpon Springs and keep focusing on projects and agenda items to improve this community. Thank you. Okay I also want to state before we go to public comments, this has got nothing to do with the public art committee as well. The public art Committee is an excellent, outstanding volunteer organization that does what they need to do. They do it well. It's sometimes that we bring it upon ourselves, all of us, as a community and, and, no, it doesn't matter how much effort you put into it, there's always going to be some little crack or fissure in a particular issue that will allow somebody to have some traction or something that they don't like. And art always has its critics. Let me put it that way. So, when I'm going to go to public art, comments. But, we have with us tonight, Miss Joan Jennings, the chairperson of the public Art Committee, also Miss Diane Woods, our cultural affairs director. Mr. Graham Jones is also in the committee, Miss Taylor, you're way back there. You're on the committee as well. Is there anybody else that's on the committee that I haven't recognized? Okay, miss Jennings, miss wood, would either of you like to have any comments at this time? I'll defer to Mr. Jones for the moment. Mr. Jones, did you have anything you wanted to say, or. Yes, I do. Go ahead. Please. Thank you. Yeah Graham Jones, 256 North Point, Alexis Drive, Tarpon Springs. And, a remarkable coincidence on the public Art committee. Mr. Mayor and board of commissioners, as you deliberate on the future of our public art installations, I wish to present a perspective that urges us to keep history and art as distinct entities. Each flourishing in its own domain. Number one Arts. Freedom of expression. Art at its core, strives to evoke emotions, provoke thought, and inspire individuals regardless of their background or knowledge. It speaks a universal language that transcends time and space. History, on the other hand, is bound by specific events, dates, and contexts, and when art is constrained by historical narratives, it loses its ability to communicate universally and becomes limited to the facts of the historical context it depicts. Number two, the risk of historical bias. History is often written by those in power, reflecting a specific perspective that may not include the diverse experiences of all communities. By making history the focus of public art, there is a risk of perpetuating a narrow or biased view of the past, and this can marginalize unrepresented, underrepresented voices and perpetuate historical injustices. Art should aim to be inclusive and representative of all, rather than bound to a potentially skewed historical narrative. Number three potential for controversy, historical events and figures can be subjects of controversy and differing interpretations. Public art installations that focus on history may inadvertently spark debates and divisions within the community. Art that is free from historical constraints can instead serve as a unifying force, bringing people together through shared esthetic and emotional experiences. Number four encouraging contemporary relevance public art should reflect contemporary values, issues and aspirations of the community. It serves. While history is important, art that is too focused on the past may fail to address current societal challenges and opportunities by keeping art and history separate, we allow artists to engage more directly with the present, creating works that are relevant and meaningful to today's audience. Number five educational versus artistic freedom. History is best taught through dedicated educational means that prioritize accuracy and context. Art, on the other hand, communicates through symbolism, metaphor, and abstraction. When we ask art to fulfill the role of historical education, we risk compromising the integrity of both disciplines. History may be oversimplified and art may be burdened with the responsibility of conveying factual information . In conclusion, while history holds great importance and deserves its own dedicated spaces and means and methods of commemoration, public art should remain a realm of boundless creativity and universal expression. So please let us keep these disciplines apart so that we may truly serve the public good through art. Thank you for considering this perspective. Thank you, Mr. Jones. I think that was excellent. And, I'm going to assume that that was, something that would be discussed by the public art committee in the future. And Miss Jones, Miss Jennings, I thank you for deferring to Mr. Jones on that, let me go to other public comments, are there any public comments concerning this now that the commission has spoken and you've heard what they have to say? Is there any public comments on this? Is there? Atkinson 621 East Orange Street. I heard a long time ago that Art often imitates life. So I agree with a lot of what Mr. Jennings Jones Mr. Jones had to say. But again, art imitates life. My first date with my wife was to the Museum of Art in Maryland to see the Monet exhibit, and I don't think that the lily pads that Monet drew were exactly representative of what he saw, but it was his image of that life event that he saw. Right? If we don't want to talk about people, then we just take it off world, right? If I was from Pluto and somebody else was from Mars, I would talk to the people that were on Mars. If I was on the Commission, and I'm doing some art about Mars, right. Where do they want? What do they like? I would have it at a time when the Martians could get there so that they could have their input before it got put out. I think Miss Jennings does a great job. I've looked around and seen the art that that's around. And, you know, I don't think it's bad, but sometimes I would like to go to our meeting. That's not at 2:00 in the afternoon because I work and I think if there was some more give and take even comments, you know, talking to the commissioners, I don't know, you know, what the proper way is to talk to the commissioners all at one time, where we can have a conversation as opposed to four minutes, and then you can't, you know, give some feedback back to the CRA Commission. They come to the community. We know when they come to the community, we can sit and talk. We do all those things. The historical society, you know, when they come, you know, we know when those meetings are. They have them, you know, at a time when people can get there. And I think they get more input, that way. So I think if there was some more notice, like he was saying, we did an after action report for Juneteenth, one of the things we talked about was maybe we can put a notice in the water bill so more people will know about it, because how did how do people know about things in Tarpon Springs if they're not on the Facebook page or if the Facebook page is not updated? So I just think some of those things could be fleshed out a little bit better. Art imitates life. Thank you. Katie Taylor, 1991 Douglas Lane, when I came to the art Council, this project was already completed. It was done years before I got there. I just seen the aftermath, the things that I tried to put at the Art Council level was to correct some things that we could have corrected on that exhibit. I also asked, I called and I got all the minutes from 2020 to 2024. I wrote them all down. I've seen where though the panel was professionals and they were also citizens. I sing that that art that the meeting was that art project was not even discussed for six months. Maybe it was because of Covid, I'm not sure, but the community, it's important that you talk to the community. I think art and history runs right there together because the longer we live, it's going to take an artist to draw pictures of what we cannot. We weren't there to see. So it takes pictures for us to see. That takes an artist. I love murals, I like to see a story be told in murals. That's what Art's Art Council should be about. Is depicting stories through a picture so it doesn't have to be a statue. It doesn't have to be a man. It doesn't have to be a duck. It can be a mural that tells a story and incorporates the history of what you see. I think that when we do have a project like that that has a mural, it should be coordinated with, with, with the historical society, because it's important that that your mural tells the story properly. And books, just like I spoke to Phyllis, the books that's in the in the library, some of them didn't even work with the books that that she had at the art at the, at the cultural center, the historical society. Because I'm working on another project. When I talked to her, the library wasn't connecting with the art with the historical society. Same thing with the with the Art Council. So I hope that art and history do not get divided because that's a story being told. Every everybody should be recognized. The in their own aspects of Dodecanese or how that whole area down there got established. So if you got one thing, it's how we do it. Work closely with the communities, make sure that people are being brought in, not just a couple of people telling you to go to a couple of people. It should not be left in the hands of the artist. It should be left in the hands of the community and the panel. But the panel should also the panel of professionals should be working with the with the members of the community. If whatever community they're working with that they're trying to depict this art from work with the people in that community. Because I know that the professionals on that, on that time frame, a couple of them stepped away. They dropped off. They quit off that board because they weren't meeting with the community. They kept asking them, are you doing history? Who are you talking to in the community? I even asked, did anybody call Mr. Archie to call a community meeting at Union Academy? That wasn't done? That wasn't done. It was all left in the hands of the artist. So I think we can just do better on the next time around. What has been has happened has happened, but we can do better. I'd like to see murals that tell stories, not statues a things. Murals tell stories. And that's what the art committee should be about. Thank you. Thank you. Anita Prose, 901 Bay Shore Drive. I agree with what she says, old photographs of tarpon down at the docks. People would love to see those people would like to see murals. I hate when I see on the on the highway all the bright flowers and the different people. We need to show what we're made of. The, building uptown with Dudley Sally's, relative. That's not who that that is. That piece of art with the little glass pieces in it doesn't even look like her . It's. It's ridiculous. And David, Archie's father. How many of you knew that when he came to Tarpon and he brought his bride? He wrote a song about Tarpon Springs and we used to always have him sing it at a at a on, gatherings and at occasions. Did they ever talk to David about that? Go, Daisy fields, the first black woman for the, Democratic Party in Pinellas County. Her sister, Miss Lambright, she was the first black teacher to be recognized by the school board in Pinellas County. They lived in Tarpon. They worked with all the children in Tarpon. No matter what nationality, on Saturdays. Ruth, you would have reading classes because I know my grandmother made me go to them and she worked in the library on Library Lane. These are the people who made tarpon. And there's so many, many more. Mr. Eisner told me he knew everything about tarpon. He doesn't know half of tarpon because he wasn't here in the old days. Thomas Craig, his family, these are people that made our community. And when I say something, you can bank on it because it's the truth, the whole truth. And nothing but the truth. I have the records from the sponge exchange, pictures of who built that sponge exchange not who they say built it. You know you can't change history. Peter Deluca's grandfather, one of the business leaders in the Uptown community. What he did JP the park uptown wasn't parking lot, wasn't given by the women's club or any other organization. Businessmen paid. I've got a picture of the gentleman handing the check over to the city. When they bought that property. But another story was told and people don't know the truth. We must tell the truth of our community. Because if you don't, everybody that moves down here is going to change it and you're going to lose it. So we need to we've got artists in this community that know the history. Let's use them and give them the money instead of bringing other people down with big bucks. Come on. Is there anyone else? I'll let you go. Last Appear to lack is 514 Ashland Avenue. Art does need to have history in it. For some purposes. You can have art that doesn't have history. But art is an important way to portray history. A lot of times you don't need words, just a picture tells the story. So if we're going to talk about pictures a little bit one day I was my wife and I were driving back by, passing the Newton Academy Center, and we had seen the quote unquote, corral. We didn't know what it was. It was going by you just see these. We stopped and we thought it was a great exhibit as far as being able to portray part of that history. But where you put it like right at a corner and it looks like, like they say it's a drainage ditch. No, no landscaping, no tree in the middle, maybe a great oak to come over it eventually to shade . But I think this goes a little further and I understand the frustration from the African American community. As Miss Protas has said, and we know that they played a big part in in Tarpon. And I think part of what why this is bubbling up and let's take the band aid off the wound. The African American community feels shunted, not recognized. You put this exhibit over a drainage ditch. There was big arguments about the thing that's next to the, city Marina. They were right. You drive by, you don't see it unless you go. Go there. Then they were talking about having something with the Bahamian spongers and the Greek spongers and such. And I know we pride ourselves in being Greek, but this town is not just Greek and Greektown. I know the Sponge Docks does a lot to generate our attractions, but when it comes to recognizing our history and if we're going to use public art as the mechanism, as Miss Taylor mentioned, and it's been mentioned, we need to have more openness. And when these things are coming about, and I applaud Miss Jennings and Miss Woods and their attempt to reach things. And as it was mentioned, you guys are micromanaging. You already have a hard enough time trying to get people on boards. And if you have people come up with ideas and trying to do stuff and you keep beating them up on this or that or this or that, you wonder why you haven't hired problems. And when Miss Taylor's, chance to become a regular member came up, there were two of us that spoke for her. We weren't in the audience, but we did call in. And yet it seemed like, nope, we don't want to put someone on there who's going to have more power to speak and vote to increase that diversity that we need in these types of decisions. So I'm glad we're talking about this, but the art that we put out as Commissioner should be, in some ways, to make us unified. But it's not always happy. Sometimes we have to see where people have gone through and struggle, and then that creates empathy and compassion. And then it leads to good deeds. And that's what I would think. Hopefully public art would lead us to. And as far as the stuff about Mr. Archie not knowing and being done, that goes back to what we've kind of talked about before, about making sure people that are going to be affected are notified, as it says in the rules of procedure. Thank you. David Archie 512 East Martin Luther King Junior Drive, you know, I came here because of the thought that, you know, should history and art go together. And I was looking up something and now it seems to be kind of absurd because it was saying you know, art and history are entwined because art shows us what life was like in the past. And there are some reasons, but it seems like the Arts Council now don't want to mix history and art. But let me tell you, this is that, my objections and my letter and the reason I'm talking about it, I didn't even say anything at public comments. I wrote it because and I talked to Commissioner Coolio's Saturday and I told him that I wrote it because I got tired of hearing my name with the project, and I put his name in there because he insinuated that I was lying, because I knew about the project. And then he writes all this stupid stuff about for months why I didn't say anything, and rusted because I don't work like that. I don't work like you. Okay? I try to do things behind the scenes. I don't have to come up here and do all this here. I don't even like doing it. I didn't say anything bad about the city commissioners, city manager, the arts Council, anything. Not one thing did I say in there? Except I don't like where it's at. I tried to overlook it. I tried to say, hey, you know, it's still a safety hazard because of the incline. There When it rains, you can really tell it's a drainage ditch. You know, maybe we can do some. You know, landscaping and do something to make it look right and rusted. And I got tired of people assuming that because I worked there and I was a former elected official, that I knew about the project. So what I decided to do, and this has nothing to do with history, because if people in the audience that know, if you look around at those pictures on there, people don't even know who half of them are. Some of them I don't even believe are from tarpon. And one of the things that I can say this is about the Arts Council that got wrong, is that those pictures are not in any public domain. This is a copyrighted book, copyrighted. That means that, hey, you should be getting somebody's permission to be able to go in there and do what the artist did, which, hey, listen, most of the time people are are coming and telling you, why was it my family there? He did a great job of doing some things as far as my family is concerned , he did. I'm not up here talking about my family should be up there. I think there are other families that should be up there, you know, definitely. I just asked to take it down and I wasn't even going to talk about it here because it seems like this body here is deferred that to the arts Council. So I said, I'll wait till you know the committee meets. But I think that, you know, my thing was this is that hey, listen, if we couldn't find a better place to put it, then it should have been back. And let's do it somewhere else. But I basically I talked to a few people behind the scenes talking about this, you know, when we met up there for the, the little dedication I talked about that. Are you going to talk about you can tell. Okay. I take that for because it bothers me. And I say this to Commissioner Coleus, as I said in my letter, I've never said anything disrespectful about you. And the rest of that. I look for you to call me and apologize for saying something that was a lie. That's what I look for you as an elected official. When you say something that's wrong, you admit it. I've done things that's wrong. I sit there and I call people, and I told them publicly, if I said something that's wrong, I don't mind admitting that. Because me. That's what a man does. This ain't about no transparency. And the rest of that stuff like that. What's transparent is I would take any of you down there any time, and I'll ask you tell me what that is. It's not history. It's a blended art that has people that I know and love that's there. And the only thing that I know to do to disavow anything that I have to do with that is to ask a simple request. I didn't ask you to put anything up. I just asked you to take down people. That's related to me. And some of them. That's related to me don't have nothing to do with tarpon Springs at all, except they're related to me. And there are other people I think that should be up there. From a historical perspective, but I would never ask anybody. I take mine down so you can put so and so's up. If I don't like it, I don't think anybody should like it and I don't mind any time. I'll take the art council down there and let them look at it and tell me what it is. I walked around with the artist. I asked him, there's one up there that I say, man, where's that in Tarpon? Just tell me, just for my own knowledge. It's not in the book that is copyrighted. So with that, I still am requesting from the city, from the Arts Council, all you have to do for me is just to take down photos, that of people. That's related to me, period. Thank you. Are there any other public comments? Mr. Moray, are there any public comments, remote access comments ? We will unmute the next zoom attendee. Zoom attendee. You are unmuted. Please state your name and address for the record. Hi. Georgiana Francis, 15 Athens Street, I agree with all the public comments that we can do better, I think the situation really could have been avoided, and I'm going to actually steal somebody else's quote, at another meeting in which I think someone was trying to gift us these large trees or something, and, the commenter said I didn't get permission to repeat her. So, but one thing this board does extremely well is plan. We have tons of plans. We got our comp plan, strategic plan, the sustainability plan, and I think, I think people have forgotten that the public art committee has a master plan, actually looking at it right now, and the same commenter had brought this up. She was a member of the public art committee for many years, at least some of the meetings I can remember. January 10th, 2020. April 14th, 2021. May 12th, 2021. And Mr. Mayor, before you took office, after you were elected commissioner on March 10th, 2020, you actually brought this up the master plan. So obviously, you know, you became mayor, you know, things got the bigger plans, took precedent. But the point of the master plan is basically to we have it online, but the point is to pick locations and put an open calling out before budget season for priority locations and specify and designate which locations are priority for the artist. Otherwise, it's a free for all. And that's exactly what happened here. And it happened before. And Mr. Mayor, you actually mentioned that in the meeting. You said to get this straight in that meeting so that this doesn't happen again. And we don't scramble at the end, which is exactly what happened here. And this is more fair to the artist and it's more fair to the community. And I would represent and recommend that for the upcoming locations, which are the Marina Innes Park, the golf course, Sunset Beach, dumpster, corals. I don't know what that is. Sizzler field, the water tower, Public Safety Memorial Garden, and underrepresented areas, all in caps of the city that you get with those, the people of those neighborhoods and discuss this with them because we do have something in in place to stop this, all of this. And I don't know why everyone forgot about the master plan. And basically the person on the committee got tired of doing this, and nothing in this plan solves the problem. It just lists all the art that we have and where they're going to go with the next art. Miss Francis, could you out to the communities or anything? Miss Francis, could you wrap up your thoughts, please? Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't get. I don't get the response. Like everybody. It's two minutes. It's two minutes for, phone call comments. Oh, did we change the rules? Okay. Yeah. Well, thank you very much. I think you got the point. Goodbye. Thank you, Miss Francis. Mr. Mori, anyone else? We do not have any more raised hands at this time. Okay. Thank you, let me go back to the commission. Commissioner Eisner, you've got your lights on. Yes, I want to address two things, I know it's been. It was said that there was a decision made, about diversity. It had nothing to do with diversity, this board at least. And I don't want to speak for the board, but at least for myself, when you have a alternate that is there from November 22nd on and they've spent a year or more on a board that would be my first selection. It had nothing to do with Miss Katie Taylor, as she knows I like her. That would not be. I would not put her in because, she joined November 23, a year later. So it had nothing really to do with it. And I don't choose according to what was brought up. So that's my comment with that, another comment that was made, I heard my name, said Eisner, and as usual, it's from someone who's extremely disrespectful to me. I've never said I know everything, so I haven't spoken to this woman and I don't know how many years, and I don't plan on speaking to her in the future. So I don't know where she came up with this new nuance of hers, but that that wasn't said by me. That's all I have. Okay Commissioner Koulianos. Yeah Yeah, I want to reiterate, Peter, I think you impugn the whole board, and I don't think that was correct. Did you speak a little louder, please? Yeah I think you impugn the entire board that we made a decision for some, improper motive. Reiterating what Commissioner Eisner said. You know, it's my policy, and I. I bet you it's probably the same with all the rest of the commissioners that, you know, the next person up, whoever has, you know, these people are, again, are all volunteers. So somebody has served as an alternate. I served as an alternate before when I was on the planning and zoning, and I got put up when it was my turn to get put up. So normally we, in my opinion, I would honor seniority unless unless the committee itself requests that somebody jump over and. And for what? And they have to make their case to the board that there's a reason they want to jump somebody. It could be, you know, somebody attendance, the first person up has had poor attendance. It could be that this other person, has some unique skill set that they need on that board, and for whatever reason. But it again, I'm telling you, from my perspective, I never made that. I did not make that decision to vote for, I can't even remember who we voted for, but whoever the next person up was, if for any reason other than they were the next person up, that's it. So thank you. Okay vice Mayor Gulyas. Yes. I just wanted to follow up the, you know, the whole location for that. The Union Academy project had been decided for some time before we even got on this commission. And, you know, this this communication thing needs to fall on the fault of the board of commissioners doesn't fall on the city manager doesn't fall on the public art committee. We had several meetings in which we gave discussion and trying to get this communication done. So, I understand the difficulties of all this and, Mister Archie, I understand your frustration, too. And, you know, I think my point was that, you know, being around that facility, and monitoring everything at the pack center and being able to live close by, you know, that project that started during the summertime of 2022 for months before art was put together, or the actual construction of that, corral was being done. And so it was done for months before the actual artwork came on. And so you know, I'm not accusing you of not knowing that at this point, but as I stated, you know, we if we all have an ability to be vocal and be influential in our community, we need to be able to do it. And if we're looking at, you know, we're in charge of certain areas and you know, the city manager is a phone call away. It's a phone call away when you're leasing property from the city to find out what's going on. And so, you know, the I'd like to move forward with it. But at the same time, we all have to be involved. And as a former public official, none of this can move forward without recorded meetings, public art meetings and people being involved. And so, you know, I like to move forward. But as I said, we all need to be involved when we know we can make a difference in our community and not just have an ambivalence to the project moving forward. Thank you. Okay, Commissioner DiDonato, first of all, I too voted for the senior member. Miss Taylor, I have all the respect in the world for you , I've always supported the person that's been on on the waiting list. The longest, and that it's as simple as that for me, but we need to address what former Mayor Archie has said here. There are two factors that still bother me. One, he's he's he's taking his time to come and say, please take his photos off. I think they should be taken off because he asked for it. Number two, he has stated about the safety factor. He's 100% correct as far as I'm concerned. If you get too close to that thing, you're going to slide in. We need to correct it. And I think that staff will do that. But I commend you, former mayor, for being here. I told you eyeball to eyeball. I apologized again, I wasn't even aware I this happened after I was appointed. As far as it being put in. But they've been talking about it for years and I still think the effort to do the right thing was there. It's just it turned out to be a bad spot. I the only person I know that was born on this face of this earth was Jesus Christ. He was perfect. The rest of us are here to do the best we can. Let's admit a mistake and move forward, and I would ask the staff to that. I already know that our city managers address that, and we'll be, finding a remedy soon. So thank you, before I go back, and , Commissioner Eisner, I hope this is going to be the last one, because I want to get refocused on the original, idea behind this agenda item. Was this issue of history and art, the issue with the Oliver artwork at the Cap center is back with the public art committee. Actually it's back with the artist, first with the art. I'm sure it's going to get resolved, but there's a process that we have to go through. I've I've, I've mentioned this to a couple of people. It's governed by federal law. There's intellectual property issues that only the artists can resolve himself before it goes any further. And we've gone through this a couple of times with one artist, where their mural was painted over on a building downtown without their knowledge by the owner of the second part was their artwork was painted over, with unbeknownst to this, federal statute in place and quite frankly, I, I, me personally, I don't want to get the city into a bind with doing something without the artist being involved in it. So I think it's going to be amicably involved. But there's a process that we go through. I don't think directing the staff by the commission at this point is the proper way to do it. Given and I don't think Mr, Dickman is, I haven't asked him about it. He's brand new on board, but it's, US code title 17, chapter one, section 106. A if anybody wants to look at it, it's entitled rights of certain authors to attribution of integrity. It basically, it says shall have the right to prevent the use of his or her name is the author of work that visual art in the event of a distortion , mutilation, or other modification of the work, which would be prejudicial to his or her honor and reputation. And it goes on. And the idea is that, the artist can give their permission to alter it, as has been requested. And that is noted, are the artist can say, well, you can do whatever you want, but you're taking my name off the artwork. That's the other option. But that is something that, the public art committee, the artist, Mr. Oliver, is going to have to deal with, along with our general counsel on this. And then once that happens, I'm sure there may be some additional expense involved. And that's going to come back to the commission on this. So, Commissioner Eisner, let me go to you. So, I pretty much haven't spoken about the, art piece. So what I would like to speak to is, I've apologized, I've heard lip service, but not an apology. And that's what was asked for by Mayor Archie. So I know you to be a man of integrity, mayor Archie. And I apologize for those who do not wish to apologize to you. And, how this moves forward, I'm hoping that we can make a good decision. It's not going to be for me, but I am going to be in in touch with at least the, the city manager and the public art to see that everything gets at least discussed, but it's my apologies. And I've apologized to you a number of times, and if I have to apologize to you a number of times, more, I really mean what I say. Sorry for what happened. Okay. So let's let's wrap this discussion up in the sense of the history versus art. I think, what Mr. Jones presented to me makes sense, at least it's a point of discussion with the public art committee. I think the majority of the commissioners up here would like to, soften the historical aspect, if not eliminate it altogether. I'm not saying there isn't a place for commemorating history in Tarpon Springs. There is. It's just it's not the public art's role, public art committee's role to do that. They are here for public art. And if there's an interpretation of whether they're dealing with history or it's art, that's a problem. There should be no, question of what they're dealing with. So unless this commission has an objection, I'd like to get a motion from the commission to, city manager. Of course, I apologize. Would you like to say something else on this? No, but I, I think it's going to be again. We're kind of gone off from what the original subject is here. That's right. The subject that seems to take all the attention is going to be addressed by the public. It was immediately after the letter from Mayor Archie came in. It was put on the agenda and it's going to be addressed at the at the meeting, coming up with all those factors you mentioned and some additional information, we found. So I think that part is going to be be taken care of. Okay, so just for where that's gone, that's the next step of the process for Commissioner Nanos that that was already set after the letter came in the proper course of action to go through and get it done. So that's going to work. Obviously some direction, especially with Mr. Jones saying what he's going back to the board and dealing with also at the same meeting. I think that's going to go a direction, you know, to do it. And that's all I want to say about the other. And, Mr. Dickman, I should ask you if you have anything you'd like to stay or add, obviously. Obviously, I'm new to this, this particular thing, but, you have a huge amount of, codes, your public art program, which reference other documents that are part of your program. So if you were to look for any kind of amendments, I'll send you a memorandum or an email with that federal code in there. I'd appreciate that. Yeah, yeah, I'm looking at your you have a lot of language in there about your your program and a lot of different guidelines. So that's where I would be looking first as an attorney to try to thank you, find an answer to some of these questions. We just it's the idea is that I understand what Commissioner Archie wants. Former Mayor Archie wants. I have no issue with his request. It's just that we've got a process to go through on that. What I'd like to get is a motion from the commission and a second to, direct the public art committee to reevaluate the role of history and their art. Keying off the comments of, of Mr. Graham this evening and, to moderate the role of history in the public art program that we have here in Tarpon Springs. Is there a motion to that effect? So moved. Can we have a discussion after the second? Yes, yes, and I'll second it. That's just a recommendation on my part. So we can at least converge to a recommendation that people can support. Is there a second. Yes sir. Okay. Let's have a discussion. Does anybody want to refine that motion or, Commissioner Koulianos go ahead. Thank you for making that motion. You're welcome. So you know, I think there's a difference between art that depicts a time and art that has definitive names in the art, you know, Miss Taylor and I spoke several times about a piece with a Greek and a black clipping sponges together, and that would have been a piece of art that depicted a time it wasn't anybody in particular. I think that, again, when we get into particular people and names, you know, history is very cruel when it comes to remembering, I mean, I read things in history and I'm always skeptical that who that like, I can't remember who said it. Maybe I think it was Mr. Jones that said that, you know, or might have been Peter, that talk about the powerful that end up getting credit for art for things, and it's the politically connected that get credit for things. And so many people in history are lost and it's just the way it is. I'll give you a perfect example. Anissa. Marcus, is responsible for the preschool in Tarpon Springs, and I don't I don't know, are you. I don't think you're. You've gotten any credit for that. And probably in time will go by and it'll just be forgotten and. No, but I'm. And I'll. And I'll be gone and anybody who remembers that you did that probably be all gone, and that's the cruelty of history, it's just the way it goes, so I don't think we should participate in that if we can, if we can avoid it, so let's again look for, art again, not avoiding depicting history, but avoiding, trying using our art committee. We have we have a historical society. So we're not avoiding history. We have places where, the history of our town should be depicted and names should be named, you know, Thomas Craig and all the people that should be named. There's places for that we have that we have, you know, the old train depot. We have the heritage, buildings. We have all those things that depict people. But I think our art needs to maybe avoid, getting into names and families and stuff, and we again, we don't have to avoid depicting history. We just have to quit trying to pick names. You know, I'm always hesitant when people die in town. That there's a rush to memorialize people, you know, I think the Catholic Church has some kind of a tradition that they wait, 100 years before they, canonize somebody to wait and see if it if it really stuck. Right. What they did, you know, spans the test of time, we often rush, I mean, there was a there was a commissioner up here who's a friend of mine, but he rushed to want to name something after some person who died, and it was a big hustle to, to name something, and I think it should be the opposite. I think it should be slowed down. Let's let's slow down, you know? And so again, I don't want our art committee to get caught up in this controversy. I don't it's they don't need it, let's do art for the sake of art. It can depict history, but let's stay away from from names and people and, and, let's, you know, have art that that, like you say, like Mr. Jones said, it's so, so well, you know, evokes an emotion, I was I'm always leaning towards happy stuff, Peter, if you want a little, something a little more, solemn, that's fine as well. But, let's just try to do that. And if that's what I don't, I was kind of. I would have made this, made this motion quicker. I just didn't quite understand it. But that's kind of where my head is on it, so. Thank you. Okay. Vice Mayor Kelly. Yes Commissioner Kelly, it sounds like you're you're on the fence a little bit because I, I'm feeling the same way. We don't want to necessarily name any one individual or person or or group, but there are going to be projects that have to have a historical perspective to it. And we've we've even heard from individuals on the public art committee just now talk about, one and a half, some type of historical perspective, you know, so, you know, I don't want to support just separating it because then we have, you know, I don't want to see all this abstract art at the sponge docks and the residents don't want to see it. And you know that Mayor, you know, you get that vibe and that input when you talk to a lot of residents, when it comes to certain stuff. And so I get it. So and that's why I'm here to tell you. So we got to have this mixed, you know, applications and projects that may be fuzed with the historical perspective and again, communication is the key. And just trying to get people involved. So I'm not going to support separating it completely. And again it's another reminder to the public art committee. You don't come up with projects that you feel are best for the community. You come up with projects that fit the mission statement that come in and enhance the nearby area with what you're bringing. So thank you, Mayor, Commissioner Eisner, I, I also am not going to support this, I don't want to micromanage. Not only do I not want to micromanage the public art, I don't want to micromanage any of the volunteer boards, if they come to us with a problem, I'm happy to be here as a decision maker of one of five votes, but without them coming to us, this is their. This is their show, whether because they could have something that's historical, and I don't want to stifle them from making something historical. I don't want them to stifle something. That's art. Worthy. Again, if they come to us just for an approval, then we either approve or we don't. If they come to us because they have a question of whether something is, to be decided by us, that's fine also. But I am not going to support making a decision for them without them making their own decision. That's why there's a department head, a chairperson, a vice chair and everybody else that sits on there. They discuss this just like I wouldn't want them to decide for us. I'm not deciding for them. So that's where I'm going to go. Okay could, Miss Jacobs, could you read the motion as it as you have it written down? I don't, to be honest with you. I don't have all of it. I'll have to go back, but basically, Mr. Koulianos to restate the motion and to the best. And that would be helpful. Okay, why don't we. Yeah Let me preface before I restate this motion. Okay. The my understanding of the motion because I. Yeah you don't need to make it. Exactly what I'm saying is you make it the way you would like the motion is to direct the art committee with our understanding of what your role is in art and history. That's different. That's said I, I I'm confused by the whole thing. But, you know, again, if, if, if the, if this was put on the agenda for it says a discussion and direction on mixing history and art. Okay, I gave my opinion about where I would like them to go. I, I'm not telling them what to do. They can do what they want. So I'm with Commissioner Eisner that we're not I don't think we should be telling them. They were asking. I think this motion was to give them some direction. That's exactly right. And that's that's. Yeah. And give them some direction as to our feelings about where art and history come together. That's. Again, I'm confused. I'm not even sure this should be in the form of a motion. May I speak whether this should just be a discussion? Because, again, this the item here is a discussion of direction I understand. Let me let me, let me before would you, would you clarify it. Yes. I think this is your motion was to have to, direct the public art committee to have a discussion concerning the mixing of history and art and to come back with some kind of a policy that they would develop, not their an advisory board. Right We are should not act like we're the experts on art. They're the experts on art. So we're not saying this is what the new policy is going to be. We're asking for them to have a discussion to consider this mixing of history and art, and to come back with a policy recommendation to us to adopt. So moved. Okay. Well, no, you have to make the motion and then. Okay, I make a motion that we direct the, public art committee to discuss the role of history and art and come back to us with some recommendations as to how they would proceed in the future with projects that have both history and art, in, in the mix. So you're actually just rewording what you had previously stated. Otherwise, there's already a motion on the floor, and I hate to be picky about those things, but if you reword, I just reworded and amended my motion. Okay, as such, then I'm seconding it. Okay. And I asked the point of clarification because I too agree. We don't need to be micromanagers up here. I very much against that. I respect the Arts Committee to be able to do their job. I think that this process has expressed the feelings to all and I think everybody understands. Mr. Jones defined it well, in my opinion, and I would would encourage us to go back after they've discussed it and come back to us. Yes. I don't want to be telling them how to do their job because they're much better at it than I am. That's right. Okay If, Vice Mayor Kolody go ahead. Sir. I just wanted to. As far as this micromanaging, I don't believe we micromanaged. And the whole board supported that decision last time. It was the fact that there was evidence that supported some projects had been fulfilled. And we're going to see that during the unveiling coming up. Is it this next Monday? I believe, but fulfilled in every way. And so we didn't micromanage, I was outspoken, I may have looked like the villain out of all this, but it's what needed to be said to move the commission forward in the project and not ignore public art committee minutes that were recorded. So I thank you all. Okay, roll call please. Commissioner DiDonato. Yes, yes. Julianus. Yes. Commissioner Eisner. Yes yes. Yes, mayor. Vatikiotis. Yes thanks, everyone, for your cooperation. I want to apologize to Mr. Galanakis. He's been very patient. We should have done our resolutions at 730. But there was too much time before 730 not to continue the agenda. And unfortunately, this was the next item on the agenda. So let's go to resolutions here. Can we have you want to take a break? Okay, let's take it again. I apologize , Mr. Gallery, let's take a ten minute break and reconvene at 850. Trust me. All right. I said that's all. I've already talked. I'm sorry, I said that's already when you see the. When you see August and things. We'll see that. So just shrink right back. Yeah, I said that's already. I'm. We're ahead of you on that one. He she was here when he was here. Yeah Or she I think she just came I think. In advance I apologize. Turn to their seats, please. May I have everyone return to their seats? Commissioners Okay. We reconvene the meeting at 852, what? We're going to do is go to agenda item nine. Since Mr. Galanakis has been very patient with us and then we'll do ordinance 2020 4-05 later after we finish the, item seven, which is the approved Reiser agreement for the fire inspection compliance engine. So, Mr. Dickman, if you could read resolution 2024, Dash 21 by title, please. Absolutely Mayor, resolution of the Board of Commissioners of the City of Tarpon Springs, Florida, approving application 24 Dash 44 requesting a one year extension of a site plan approved under resolution 2023 Dash 21, which extension shall establish a new expiration date of August 8th, 2025, providing for findings, providing for an effective date. And Mr. Mayor, I do have some preliminaries. If you would like me, go ahead. Oh please go ahead. Okay. All right. Great This is a quasi judicial. Absolutely. Yes. So this is a quasi judicial proceeding where the Board of Commissioners acts in a quasi judicial manner rather than a legislative capacity at a quasi judicial hearing. It is not the board's function to make law, rather to apply law that has already been established in a quasi judicial hearing. The board is required by law to make findings of facts based upon the evidence presented at the hearing, and apply those findings of fact to previously established criteria contained in the code of Ordinances and the Land Development Codes, as it relates to this, in order to make a legal decision legal decision regarding the application before it, the board may only consider evidence at this hearing that the law considers competent, substantial, and relevant to the issues. If the competent, substantial, and relevant evidence at the hearing demonstrates that the applicant has met the criteria established in the code, then the board is required by law to find in favor of the applicant. By the same token, if the competent, substantial and relevant evidence at the hearing demonstrates that the applicant has failed to meet the criteria established in the code, then the board is required by law to find against the applicant. Now, Mr. Mayor, anyone who's going to, speak here tonight will have to do so under under oath. And I can swear them in. And then all the commissioners will have to do an ex-parte disclosure. Okay. Mr. Galarraga's. Okay. Would you like me to do it? Yes, please. Okay. I'm sorry. Raise your right hand. Anybody who is going to speak here tonight on this item, do you swear or affirm that the testimony you're about to give in this hearing, is the truth? The whole truth and nothing but the truth? I do thank you very much. Thank you, any commissioners have any ex parte communications that they want to report? Okay city manager, of course. I'm going to go ahead and open the meeting. Yes. Renee, will you present this, please? Good evening. Mayor. Commissioners. Rene Vincent, planning and zoning director, the request before you tonight is a request to extend a previously approved development order under resolution 20 2321, the location of the site. I have a map here for reference. Is a little vacant. Sliver of land on Athens Street, the proposed project was a small, little infill walk up restaurant, facility, we did receive a letter of request from the applicant and the owner, Mercury Gallaratese, stating, it's been challenging to find a builder that can do the do the project at a reasonable cost and is looking to, you know, have additional time to put the project out. So, under this was a previously approved under the Board of Commissioners, under the previous land development code, an older section that's been revised where you could ask for one year and one year extension, and that's what so we're treating it as that even though the code has changed since then. So we do recommend approval, of, of resolution 20 2421, which would provide for a one year extension of the approved site plan. Okay. Let me go to, commissioners. Anybody have any questions for miss, Vincent. Go ahead, Commissioner Eisner. So when you say the code has changed, would you specify what the original code is versus what has been changed? Certainly the original code, allowed for a one year extension of an approved site plan, that has to be approved by the board of Commissioners. The new code has required, sites that a site plan will expire in six months. And then there's an administrative procedure that the city manager can approve a six month extension. So that's the old code versus new code. Gotcha. Thank you. You're welcome. Any other commissioner? Miss Vincent, I have a question. I today is July first. Right or second? When did Eileen come through, Idalia, the last hurricane that that was Idalia. That was actually August 26th. So there is a there is an executive order out there that would probably pick this up, Mr. Galarraga's probably didn't know that he could. No, he doesn't have an attorney on his. Yeah, exactly. He doesn't have an attorney representing him. So if the if the extension, as I read it was, was invoked here, it would take him out to August, of 2025. Anyway, so this is actually this extension lines up pretty closely with that. Right. And I guess for the future, if, if this hurricane, if we do have a, an emergency across the state, God willing, it's not actual emergency here, then that would be added on to this one year extension. If the commission goes that way, this evening. Is that correct? I'll, I'll defer to the to the attorney. But essentially yes, they'll they'll amend their own executive orders based on new things that happen. Right. So in order this is a Florida statute, 225, two points, 363. Tolling and extension of permits and other authorizations. So when there is a, an executive order establishing an emergency and the county, Pinellas County is named in it, then there is a procedure to, write in, and have an extension of not only the time that the executive order is in place, but also 24 months. In addition to that, 24 months. So but they do have to initiate it by, with a writing to the city, I'm not going to try to give you legal advice, but it's okay. It's in there. So it probably would have been gotten picked up in that situation as well. But I think more importantly is if they continue to ascend amend those executive orders, it can be extended even further. So it's something to be tracked on. So let me just take this a step. We're doing one year, but Mr. Galanakis could technically have two years if he wrote. Well, it would be two years from August of last year. So it really so it kind of lines up with the. Yeah Okay. And I will research whether or not there's been any additional extensions this up then. All right. Mr. Gallo, do you have any questions for Miss Vincent? No. Oh. I'm sorry, Commissioner Eisner, you didn't go ahead. I'm. I'm good. Is there a difference in cost from applying for this versus going for the two year extension, not not for Mr. Gallo. No, this is the extend request to extend no cost to him. Okay? I just want him to just just my staff time. I'm asking you so that it makes him aware. That's all. Thank you. Okay. Mr. Gallo, do you have any questions for Miss Vincent? I did not, okay, miss Vincent, do you want us to enter your staff report as evidence? Yes, please. Okay. Mr. Gallo, do you have any, questions or presentation or anything you'd like to say? You don't have to say anything. No, I do not. Okay let me go ahead to, public comments. Are there any public comments on this item, miss produce, you rose your hand, you raised your hand. Okay I'm going to go ahead and, close the public hearing, and, go to any commissioner comments that you might have. Anybody. Okay. May I have a motion to approve resolution 2024, dash 21. So moved. Second, there's no further comments. Roll call, please. Yes Commissioner Collins. Yes, yes, Nicholas. Yes, mayor Vatikiotis. Yes. Okay. Thank you, thank you. I like spicy mustard, by the way. Thanks. Mr. Gallo. All right, let's go to item seven, approved price or agreement for fire inspection. Compliance engine. City manager. Of course. Fire Chief Scott Young will be coming up to make this presentation. Good evening, Scott Young, fire chief, I bring forward to you a, a program for approval with the Pricer company to assist with the fire departments, fire inspection program, there is no cost to this city with this program. This program is to help streamline the process, related to scheduling of fire inspections, reporting generation and regulatory compliance tracking. And, uses a third party, compliance engine and will help maintain the consistency in the inspection procedures. And with the documentation, and ensures all businesses within the city are, under the same fire safety standards. And it helps contribute to a safer community, the city attorney, the previous city attorney, Mr. Lewis, reviewed this and, gave his. Okay, I also sent it to our new attorney, Mr. Dickman. He was so generous to look at it on short notice. Thank you. And, this agreement also can be canceled at any time if we at the fire department, the fire marshal feels it's not doing what we want it to do. We can cancel it without any penalties. I also reached out to the chamber and talked to, Jean there, and she was good with it. She's actually offered to help spread the word with the businesses, with any literature that we may want to get out so they understand what the program is all about. With that, I'll answer any questions that you may have. Okay. Let's go to public comments. Any public comments on this item? Mr. Murray, are there any public comments? We do not have any raised hands at this time. Okay, commissioners, any comments from the Commission? Commissioner Julius. Yeah, I was hoping to see, prices. And I know they can vary from business owner to business owner, but it was more towards the smaller businesses just to give them an expectation on what their annual or, you know, biannual inspections are going to be on some of the items requested. So how it works is the, the company's currently each business has to do depending on what they have, we'll use fire extinguishers for this, 90% of the businesses only have fire enforcers that they have to have inspected by a third party company each year. Bracer charges a $10 administration fee to help with the paperwork, gives us a dashboard to keep track of what's going on with the inspections. And that is added on, this this is going kind of a nationwide type program that's starting to build a lot of steam, and a lot of departments in the county have already started using it. There's more. I'm hearing coming on board, but that's the cost of by an annual basis for, companies or businesses in the city. I should say, if there's bigger thing items like Walmart and they may have, fire alarm systems, there's a little bit of like, there's $20 per item for that. So And when would this effectively take place? Once the agreement is signed, there will be a time for us to get with the company to make sure they have the businesses in town, addresses that we have in our database and that database will be able to grow. Currently, we can do about 400 inspections a year. There's about 19, a little over 1900 businesses in town. So we aren't right now. We're aren't able to get to all of them with this new program. They will get to all the companies within the first two years. We should have almost 100% compliance. That's great if we can just do a really good public relations campaign to these businesses to let them know about. That's our plan, what we're what we're doing, what they're going to be expected and their inspections just to just so they're just not caught off guard. It would be great. So yeah, that's that's our plan to do it. And that'd be perfect. Yeah. We'll make sure that happens. You might want to say that you've already contacted. Yes. We contacted I talked to, the Merchants Association and also, Reggie Gibson, today also, I talked to her and she was good with this. Talked to the chamber. They were good. They thought it was a great idea, and they were actually going to help us spread the word like you were asking. So, Commissioner Eisner, I know these answers, so I'm just going to ask it so we can clarify. There's very little excessive cost to the people that are going to be using this service. Correct Yes. Minimal cost, like I said, they have to already spend, some dollars to have some of these items inspected already. Right, and they, some of these companies charge the administrative fee. Some of them don't, just so they can try to get more business. Right. So there's a little competitiveness out there with that. So this is also almost cost free for the city. It's helpful for the city correct? Yes. It will help us tremendously. It helps safety wise as well. Correct Because we have now a way of freeing up our people. And at the same time, we have a better database of people that are coming into compliance, correct? That is 100% correct. Thank you. I have nothing else to say. Okay. Are there any other commissioner comments, if not, may I have a, if I if not, may I have a motion to approve the ricer agreement for fire inspection compliance engine? So moved second. Okay Commissioner DiDonato seconded. No further comments. Roll call please. Yes Commissioner. Collins. Yes, Commissioner. Eisner. Yes, vice mayor Coolio's. Yes, mayor. Vatikiotis. Yes. Thank you. Thanks, chief, okay, let's go back to ordinance 2020 5-05, authorizing a referendum question to purchase the Stamets property on Eleanor Boulevard. Mr. Dickman, could you read the ordinance by title, please? Yes, mayor. I'd happy to do it, an ordinance of the Board of Commissioners of the City of Tarpon Springs, Florida, submitting to the electors of the City of Tarpon Springs a referendum question and ballot title for the purchase of, quote, the Stamets property comma located on L and r Industrial Boulevard from Anclote Properties LLC for the use as a permanent dredge spoil site, expanded water utility facilities, recreational trail parking, slash access, and other municipal uses, and providing for an effective date of this ordinance. And mayor, I do want to mention that, the second reading is going to be scheduled for July 30th, which I believe is a special meeting. Okay. City manager course. Yes, this is the first step. This is the first reading of the ordinance to purchase the Stamets property, the city attorney said, and, the second reading, we will have, because of advertising, we'll have, probably a 530 meeting on the 30th, which is before we have our second budget work session. So and so there's no need to call a special meeting that gives plenty of time for Irene to get everything in. We've got an August ninth deadline. So by doing it the 30th before our budget meeting at 530, she's got plenty of time to file it. When we come back the 30th, we'll be doing the second reading of this, of this resolution of this ordinance, and then also we'll be bringing after you approve that, you'll approve the actual ballot language, that goes on the referendum. So by resolution, by resolution. Yes. And the election costs. So that'll, that'll be on the five on the five right now. 530 if you know, $10 said. And we'll make, make permanent the 530 meeting on the 30th. That's what you'll approve the ordinance and then the resolution of the ballot language. Okay. Thank you. Public comments, any public comments on this item? Mr. Jones ? Yeah Graham Jones 2056 North Point Alexis, Mr. mayor, Board of commissioners, in the preamble to the proposed ordinance, it's noted that the city leases the property currently. And over the past seven years has paid about $770,000, which is roughly 110,000 per year in the financial year 2025 proposed budget. I can't find where this year's lease payment is. Can someone please direct me to the appropriate page and item, you don't have to do that right away . If you know, just I'd like to know where to find it. We can get Mr. Herring to send that to him tomorrow. Thank you, also in the preamble is the proposal that the city should pay Anclote Properties LLC $5.25 million for a property that's appraised at $3.75 million. The purchase amount, the 525 .25 being funded by a debt obligation. And I just don't know why the citizens of Tarpon Springs should be asked to borrow $1.5 million to pay a 40% premium for this property that just has a very undesirable odor to it. A million and a half extra on top of the appraised value for a property that you already lease. It just doesn't smell right. The next anticipated dredge event is in 15 years time, but the preamble does mention using the land for other uses, including water utility facilities, trail parking, and other uses. I urge the Board of Commissioners to reconsider this grandiose proposal and negotiate a much more sensible deal, and failing that, to seek to use eminent domain and take the property for its appraised value of 3.7 million. Thank you. Okay, let me finish up with public comments. Maybe we can talk about that a little bit. Go ahead, Miss Taylor. Public comments. Katie Taylor, 1991 Douglas Lane, Tarpon Springs, Florida I wholeheartedly agree with Mr. Jones on that. And, we've been is there any other property you can look at to do what you need to be doing, rather than pay such an astronomical amount of what the over what the property is even valued at and Commissioner Koulianos read off a list of projects that's not funded. So could that money be better utilized to resolve some of the projects that y'all have? No funds for right now than buy a piece of property that's grossly overvalued and won't be used for another, what, five, six, seven years? Just a thought. You know? Thank you. Okay. Thank you. Are there any other public comments? Need a protest nine one Bay shore while you go to borrow the money. Borrow the money to help the people connect to the source so they don't have to pay like other communities have done. Okay Are there any other public comments, Mr. Maury? Are there any public comments, remote access comments? We will now unmute the next zoom attendee. Zoom attendee you are unmuted. Please state your name and address for the record. Good evening. Peter Lucas, 514 Ashland Avenue. I know the mayor and the board wanted to put it before the voters, and we voters can turn it down, but I hate to see us go through all that expense and energy where it does get turned down and all the legalese and things that have been worked. But we're at this point, as it was mentioned, this property probably would not be used for a while. I had mentioned it before. I think the Stoffer property is more valuable to the city, it's been mentioned that it's not for sale, but I don't know if we can reach back out to AstraZeneca or whoever is handling it for them, but that property offers more value to the city than the one that we're purchasing from the pharmacist. One you could create your Marina and a boat launch right there. Two you can use part of the property for solar panel three you could also move your yard waste facility out there and four you could use part of the property for your dredge fill. It has direct access to the water. So you could have the ability to tube or, you know, flow your, your, your, your dredging to that property. But before we go, spending 5.25 million and enriching the stamps again, we already gave them $700,000 over the years. They thank you and let's move on. But this is at a point where I don't think you can turn back. So I just would say at this point, I would urge the voters to turn it down and the board to begin looking at other alternatives, especially the Sopher site, which offers much more value and bang for the buck per acre. Thank you. Okay Mr. Morey, anyone else? We do not have any other raised hands at this time. Okay. Let let me. Do you want to say anything? You want me to talk? Do you want to say, go ahead and then I'll pick it up from you or. Again, this was pretty well discussed the last time we were on there. We do have a signed contract, to go forward with this, to let the voters decide. There's a lot of information kind of been left out. I understand the concerns, but there's a lot of other information available, including in the language of the ordinance that shows the cost. And there's a little word in there, that says, you know, 2025 is probably going to cost $1.4 million, but there's a little word called if and that is if land is available. And the way things are going, the other consideration is not what it's going to cost. And, or we can get it again. Is there going to be any land available for anything to get this by? So there's a lot of things, and there'll be information put out for the voters, of all the information for them to examine and then make the decision that, that they think is right on it. But, you know, there is other information out there, to point to in this, in this case and this support this. So, let me just add a couple of things. One, the appraisal was 3.75, I'm going to assume that that's correct, historically we've always offered 1.25 125% of that value. We did that a long time ago to try and avoid having to take land when it's necessary. And the 25% represents attorney's fees that would be added on to the appraised value. So rather than the attorneys getting the money, we offered it to the property owner. And so sometimes that worked, sometimes that didn't live oak. It was a mix of individuals. When we put Live Oak Street through our the city manager at that time, some people accepted the offer, others didn't. And honestly, the ones that we did the same thing for the library when we put the library on, a couple of people accepted that offer a couple of people didn't. And honestly, the way the people that did not accept that offer, did not make out as well as the people that did take 125. We did that with the sun Bay motel. We did that with the, Hoffman property there on the corner of Spring Bayou and Tarpon Avenue. That would take it up to some amount. I don't have the number off the top of my head, but then in the other part of the discussion was the additional value of this property. In addition to the spoil site regarding to its location adjacent to the, row plant, the reverse osmosis plant , and for the opportunity for future expansion of that plant, the 5 million gallon, storage tank that's going to have to be built there. It gives us opportunities for additional solar panels if we wish, additional expansion of, of our public works. There's a whole list of other things that that property affords us. The opportunity. Future opportunity, because of its location. Also, the trail goes by that. And then probably for me, from an engineering perspective, the most important part of that property is when you put water on land that comes from the river, which is always pumped. It's a slurry that's pumped of mixed sand and water. When it pumps on there, it has to get off somewhere. The route that it gets off from that location goes down. Basically, it's an abandoned railroad right of way now, which is the new trail location. But it it's owned by the county or is it owned by us? I don't know, it's the county. I think, owns that part of it. But in any case, that makes its way from that location all the way down to alternate 19. It's a negative grade. It flows that way, goes under alternate 19, gets through the wetland there, and then comes back into the Anclote River on the east side of the Anclote River bridge and the purpose of that is to allow for all the sand and pollutants to get polished out of that water before it gets back into the river. The other land that we looked at, briefly, there is no obvious route for the water to leave that site to get back to the river, there was only there was one other site. So we stopped at that point as far as the Stauffer chemical plant. The city manager and I have a long history on that plant. I've encouraged them to look into that, there was a small, two parcel piece to the west of the most western part of that that's clean. That wasn't part of the EPA site, but there's riparian rights issues with that. We don't have access to the water, which. So it would have been just not just buying the property for boat ramps and other things, which is what the idea was. But we'd also have to buy the riparian rights from Seneca, the most eastern part of that land is also another piece of property that historically had been used as a spoil pond site. Unfortunately when they put the cap on the Stauffer, the polluted area, it spilled over into that. What otherwise would have been a pristine property. I know that site very well. And then the rest of that property, the majority of that site, at that location, is basically a cap over the, phosphorus pollutants. And other materials that was scraped up and put in that location. Then there's the property across the street as well that, I'm not sure how you would get the water from that location back down to the river through the property in front of us. Give us given that that would be a Superfund site. So that site has been explored. I don't think it's something that the city would want to buy. The whole thing at all, you would be buying the liability of the Superfund site and Seneca has already told us it's not for sale. They had they've told us that there's been another buyer. We've tried to identify that other buyer, and we've not been able to. So we're just taking them at their, words, value. And we've just left it alone. Did you have anything else to say about that? Okay. So that's an explanation of those. So I'm, I, with that, the question would be posed, to the residents and it'll be up to the residents to decide whether they want to purchase it or not. I think that that's we've done our due diligence on that. I think it's in my opinion, given that the, and I think as Commissioner Koulianos said it perfectly, it's not what the appraisal, the appraised value is, it's what the owner says it's worth to him. And that's what we're dealing with. But fortunately, in my opinion, there's additional value on that that could justify the $5.25 million. So Commissioner Eisner. Yeah. So the only little shortfall was the amount of money. So I did the math while the mayor was speaking. And it's a difference if we did an eminent domain, it's a difference of about $550,000, and that $550,000 would have to go to law fees and probably, bad faith, I do encourage the city manager to look at other locations in case the referendum doesn't go through, because that's a possibility. So we should always have plan B and possibly even plan C, but that's just so, you know, because you asked the question, it was about 550,000 different. So when you say something's overpriced and, you know, for us to take it away from somebody, you know, there's all sorts of logistics involved. It's got to be, you know, justified under our eminent domain rules, so it's not just as easy as that. So that's pretty much it. Thank you, Vice Mayor. Yes yes. I think it's important just to let the residents decide, you know this a property should have been purchased, decades ago to help take care of this. Dredging. And when you look back at the numbers and you talk about the importance of the river and what it brings back annually to the local region and what this property can potentially do to help future, future generations with this, dredging, it makes sense to let the voters decide. And if we didn't let them decide, then we would in fact, be micromanaging. So let's let the people decide. And the importance of it and how it can shape the community for generations to come. Thank you. Okay any of the other commissioners? No Okay, if there's no further comments from the commission, we have a motion and a second to approve. Almost two 2020 4-05 authorizing a referendum question to purchase this property. I'll so move it for the third time. Did you make the motion? Yes. Is there a second? Second? Okay. Roll call, please. Commissioner DiDonato. Yes, Commissioner. Collins. Yes Commissioner. Eisner. Yes, vice mayor. Yes. Yes, mayor. Vatikiotis. Yes. Okay. Thank you . Does that end the agenda? Thank So, do we have another one? Easy, tiger. I think that ends it, right? Yes Okay. That's all. So let's go. Thank you. Everybody That's why I'm just an object. Get the agenda done. But I don't know when it ends. So let's go to, staff and board comments. Assistant Chief Ruggiero, we have none, sir, attorney Dickman. No, I just happy to be here. Thank you for the accommodations. Okay. I'll see. Of course. I don't have anything. Just come out. I hope to see all of you all on Thursday. It's going to be a great picnic. And of course, the fireworks that at night, from Sunset Beach to watch at Howard Park and surrounding areas. Yeah, you'll you'll go ahead, Irene, I'm sorry, I have no comments. Thank you. Okay Commissioner DiDonato, anything? Commissioner Eisner. So just the very quick, I know there was a discussion that we should come up with rules of procedure. Okay? I don't happen to have them with me, but I know I'm constantly listening to rules of procedure being broken, we have rules of procedure that it's, people coming up is supposed to address the board as the board. They're not addressing the board. There are personal, names being said, and I think that has to stop. So let's before we even go to change our rules of procedure, we should follow the ones we presently have. Okay So, Vice Mayor, just looking forward to the 4th of July picnic and the fireworks display that's going to happen. Also, I did want to address the unwarranted personal attack by Commissioner Eisner. And, no one needs to apologize for me, but we do have to. In fact, apologize for individuals up here that won't speak up to follow the mission statement, which is to protect, preserve and enrich the heritage , traditions and independence of the city through quality services and a commitment to excellence and so, for those who haven't been here that long, when you take points and you're you're not aware of the information being presented to you, then you in fact, are not representing the citizens of Tarpon Springs. So I would encourage some commission members do their backup, do their research, do their homework before they start speaking out, and they need to apologize for their own actions. And that's all I'd like to say. Thank you. Okay, Commissioner Yanez, I'd like to welcome Mr. Dickman to our our wonderful city. And, wish everybody a wonderful, 4th of July. We celebrate the independence of our great nation. So And let's be mindful of our pets. Thank you. Okay. Let me just say, with the rules of procedure, as Commissioner DiDonato said, there's only been one perfect person that's walked this earth. And, from my perspective, we have our rules. But I also like to keep peace. And I love to give the ability of people to say what they say. I extend pine for people when I know they haven't quite completed beyond the four minutes. I say do the same thing on the remote access. I reopen public comments when Mr. Saxer comes in. I didn't have to do that, when commissioners go around and around and around 3 or 4 times and keep coming back and lighting up the light, I don't say anything about that which I could and just call the question on the first round. There's a whole lot of things that I can do. If you want to follow the rules to the absolutely stickling excruciating, detail, I can do that. But you are going to be a miserable commissioner because you won't be able to get anything off your mind. And that's going goes the same thing with the public, too. They're going to be frustrated and I'm going to have shoes thrown at me. So I don't want to do that. And if those that don't feel that way, if I don't follow the rules and you don't like me following the rules, you can also do something that Commissioner Koulianos used to do for a habit point of order, mayor. You're not following the rules. And then all I have to say is. Okay, Commissioner, may I have a motion to waive the rule so we can get, so and so to speak, for the third time at the, at the, at the, you know, on this particular agenda item and, and it's as simple as that. So my point is, let's pick our battles and let's live and enjoy each other and have peaceful moments up here. So I wish everybody a 4th of July, a happy 4th of July. And, please moderate the use of fireworks after 9:00 or else the police department's going to be busy listening to my wife on the telephone. So thank you very much. And good night, everybody. Meeting adjourned at 931. Mark, we're going to typically start and extend the one. Oh, yes. Thanks.