Yeah, yeah. Who's your candy? I think that's it. Let's go. I brought the I brought the noise free candy. Okay. Ready. I called to order the special session of the Board of Commissioners of the City of Tarpon Springs on Saturday, July 27th, 2024 at 4:30 p.m. Roll call please. Mayor Vatikiotis here. Vice mayor Coolio's here. Commissioner Eisner here. Commissioner Collins here. Commissioner DiDonato here. Okay, let's go to right off to public comments. Are there any public comments on anything that's not on the agenda? The agenda has, four items and they're all related to selecting a new city manager. So are there any public comments on anything that's not on the agenda? Mr. Jump, are there any remote access comments? If anyone online would like to speak on on this item, please raise your hand and you'll be allowed into talk. And we do not have any raised hands at this time. Okay. Thank you, Mr. Jump. We have four agenda items and the objective. The overall objective tonight is to select a new city manager, we have two, finalist, Mr. Maxeiner from Illinois, Mr. Rudd from Florida. I want to thank you both for being here. You're both excellent candidates, and, you're the two finalists out of about 38 or 40 that applied for the position. So, it'll be an interesting discussion this evening. And, and, I'm not sure how it's going to turn out, but as I find both of you, qualified, as far as city managers go. So good luck with, your this process, the, I also want to remind the residents this is the city manager, and I talked about this a little bit, and, Commissioner DiDonato, I did not talk to him about it, but he was part of it. This is the first time we're, selecting a new city manager since 1999, which was 25 years ago, since then, we hired, at that time, we hired, city manager who had been a department head in Hopewell, Virginia. There was not much, department or city manager experience there. And that person lasted, I don't know, 5 or 6 years. And then eventually, she moved on. And then, we've had the gentleman sitting to my left, picked up as an interim and continued on in. He's city manager today. And, Mr. Lacourse, I want to thank you for lasting that long. And Tarpon Springs, and, and also, Mr. Lacourse has announced, retirement date is January 2nd, 2025. So I'll let everybody know that as well. The first item on the agenda is, candidate presentations. If either of you would like to make a presentation or just say a few words, you're more than welcome to, you don't have to, and you can take as much time as you'd like, I'll invite either one of you, Mr. Maxeiner. Mr. Rudd, either one of you. Thank you. Mayor, I just want to take the opportunity to, thank you for this opportunity. I feel delighted and honored to be a finalist in this election. I want to thank the staff for the great tour and this process being so smooth for us, we had a great tour of a very comprehensive tour of the city yesterday and then last night with the public, the public was very gentle to us and, appreciate that. We had a good public, question and answer period. And then and then today, meeting each of you the opportunity to meet with you and share, my, my personal things about my life and my passion for working with communities to revitalize and redevelop. And I look forward to having the opportunity to work with you in the future in Tarpon Springs. Thank you. Okay. Good evening. I'd like to just take a moment to thank the staff and elected officials and the community for hospitality, for the welcome yesterday and last night and then again today, it was good to have those discussions with you to learn a little bit more about what your expectations might be, just as a refresher, I'm from Illinois. I spent I was born there, raised there, spent my entire career there. 32 years in this profession, 21 as a chief administrative officer, all of that in Illinois. I've served in communities between 6500 population and 150,000 population, the largest community I served in as the chief administrative office officer was about 43,000. So just a couple of quick comments here, I was born into a family that, values public service highly. So my daughter, my sister, my grandfather, aunts and uncles, my father was a firefighter. He, unfortunately passed away on duty, in 1990. I've always, striving to the ideals that he set forward, the standards that he set forward. He was a quiet servant leader, he was the one you turn to whenever things started to go bad, regardless of rank. They kind of turned to him. He even keeled, and he was a leader. So I've always tried to aspire to that type of leadership. So, I try to serve with, with humility, that's one of my key traits. I hope, one of my favorite sayings is there's two types of city managers. There's those that are humble and those that are about to be. So I would much rather be the humble one on the front end. So, we talked a little bit about my management style collaborative open, calm, even keeled, I don't get too excited about things, but, I am reserved a little quiet. I had a colleague, reference check, she suggested that, like. The old E.F. Hutton commercial. When he. When Doug talks, people. Listen, maybe I'm showing my age with that commercial, but, that's quite a while ago. Regarding your community, you have lots to be proud of here, from what I have seen, your authenticity and your heritage, you've been true to that. And you've worked to protect that, you haven't let development overwhelm that, which is a task in itself. You're becoming, a few and far between in that, in that regard. So, I could sense the energy in the community and the engagement last night and, walking around town. And I thought that was very, very important, and I just wanted to say that, I would like to be, if, if selected as your city manager, your next city manager, I would strive to be a strategic partner with the city commission. And, give you good information in a timely fashion so that you can make good decisions. And, we can move forward to protect the community moving forward. So with that, if, if selected, I would be I would be proud to serve, this community, to try to continue to preserve that heritage and, to protect the way of life here. So I appreciate your time. Thank you, thank you, thank you for, you two gentlemen, I, I've been asked to invite you to, to step out of the room while we deliberate, and I'm not sure. Do we have a place, now, you can object, and you can stay, but it may. It may be a little more comfortable for the commissioners up here to talk about you without looking at you, Paul. You take care of it. Mr. Smith will take care of it. Thank you very much, Miss Rudd. You get Miss Rudd, you can remain if you'd like. Oh, would you like to go with Mr. Rudd? Yeah, of course. Okay Okay. Let's go to, public comments, public comments on any of the candidates, or any anything that you might wish to offer as far as what you see as a selection process, the important things that this commission should be looking at for a next candidate. Peter Lack is 514 Ashland Avenue. For the selection was narrowed down to three. I looked at all five of the interviews. After that. I looked at the three gentlemen, at least twice. And then yesterday again, if you look at, what they said in their interviews, Mr. Max and I are his first thing he said collaborative team versus subordinate supervisor. And when Mr. Rudd, his answer for management style is collaborative servant leadership, support staff and training and tools. So I don't think either one will be a bad choice for Tarpon. They're both qualified. They're certified, they're the type of quality people that we're looking for. But who's going to be the best fit for Tarpon? I would have to say Mr. Rudd would be because he's from Florida. He's been in Florida all his time during his tenureship through the progression. He's worked in small towns and larger places, but he already knows a large part of the lay of the land. What's going on with Florida? All of our crises with insurance and mandates coming down from Tallahassee. And, I just feel there'd be a shorter learning curve in that regard, as far as their, management skills, they both seem to be open to speaking to employees and allowing employees to have a direct conduit to them. I would hope that in your interviews, you found a way to see if it's a mesh with our employees, because my biggest concern and I've expressed it, you guys deal with the city manager. I know Costa does a little bit more, but in in general, maybe a few times a week. A couple of phone calls, some emails, maybe an office visit. But the staff and employees deal with the city manager seven days a week, sometimes 24, seven. And who's going to be the one that staff is going to look at to follow their lead and willingly be willing to, as both of them have said, got on board through either education training or things of that nature. So not having been able to speak to them individually, I really can't comment on some of those or of my thoughts, but maybe you've got a gleaning into that, and I just would like to add one more thing, you mentioned 99 when Ellen was hired and she actually lasted ten years to 2009, and I was on the board when she left. And there were some issues with regards to how she was looking to progress her chain of progression in her career. But I have to say, looking back, even though she never was a city manager, she came from public works. She accomplished a lot of things that we can look back at that were successful. So I would have to say, don't overlook the fact that someone hasn't been a city manager or a long period of time. Other experiences can lead to that. Also, as far as Mr. Rudd being from a redevelopment background, we here in Tarpon Treasure what we have and instead of just rampantly building, we need to start looking at redeveloping corridors. It was mentioned at the meeting about the South Pinellas area, that area needing to be looked at and developed. So I think someone with redevelopment attitudes and what one of them mentioned in their interviews, the lens they look at, I think that would be at this point in our time, our best fit. Thank you, thank you. Are there any other public comments? Carol, make it 735 Chesapeake Drive in Tarpon, I went to the event last night and listened to all of the discussion and asked a few questions myself, I was very impressed with Douglas Maxner. I thought he came off incredibly professional and kind, so they sort of balanced out in that way. I do think that coming not from Florida can be a real asset, namely to bring new eyes to our community. And I'm sure that his learning curve will be short. He's been doing this for a long time. I'm sure he's already boned up on the issues in Florida. So, I wanted to say that I would vote for him. I think that he would bring a real considered professionalism to our town. I think that one of the things that we focus on is tarpon, but we have to remember that tarpon is part of Pinellas County and Pinellas County is incredibly active and has very strong leadership throughout the county. And I think that when we look at a city manager, we have to look at two things. One is how they'll serve the city and two, how will they serve the county and be able to bring resources to our town. And it's very, very competitive to do that. And I think, Douglas Maxner would be incredibly good at doing that. So, I wanted to put my views into your considered opinion. Thank you. Thank you, Miss Mikan. Is there anyone else? Miss Menino? Denise Menino, 470 Cypress Street. Tarpon Springs. I don't feel for you guys. This is a very challenging decision because both of these men are very qualified, I have to say, in search of our new city manager, I've really appreciated the public process and the opportunity to view the screening interviews. Initially and read the resumes and gain a sense of each candidate's style of management, which I feel are really critical to the vital position of city manager and our city government. I agree with what Carol said. I agree with what Peter said. I mean, this is a very, very tough decision. But at this moment in our city's journey with, the new strategic, plan, the comprehensive and the sustainability plans, and in the early stage of implementation, I value a city manager with exceptional experience with staff, with community, and with the ability to listen to the public and that kind of you know, seems like the person that has had a lot of experience might fall into that category. But at the same time, they're both excellent. They both have unique strengths, Douglas Myers, Maxner has held an administration position and larger city, government, and he clearly expresses his understanding of human dynamics and the needing to be artfully balanced in order for every stakeholder to be heard. And I really value that. But I also really value that. Charles Rudd is already a Floridian. He knows the culture. He's worked with the diversity in his community, and he has the capacity to grow with the city at this exciting turning point. And he's only applied to Tarpon Springs and valuing this as his first and only choice. And we'd be growing together. But like I said, I don't envy your decision. It's a very tough one. They're both exceptional and I think that we were really lucky that people like that came here and that through the process, you whittled them down to the ones that we could all really be proud of as candidates. So I'm certain that you're going to make the best decision for Tarpon Springs and the best that I can do at this point is just hold space for your wise guidance, because I know that it's going to be a challenging discussion, and I know that there's a lot to consider. And everyone that has already expressed their views has really valid points. Thank you. Thank you, Miss Menino. Thank you. Taylor 1991 Douglas Lane, Tarpon Springs I also listened to, went to the meeting last night and heard both candidates, which both gentlemen seem to be very nice men, and I listened to their interviews on YouTube. I would be leaning more toward Mr. Rudd because he seemed to have more experience with revitalization in neighborhood revitalization. So he's worked with communities. He worked with diverse groups. Mr. Max Meyer didn't seem to have that experience to me from what he was explaining last night. And Mr. Rudd is he he has redevelopment experience and his, the way he spoke just made me feel like he would be a person that willing to listen to the community, listen to all communities, not just 1 or 2. Everybody. I liked his views on, how he would handle implementation of a new system, new software, how he would treat long term employees to bring their salaries up to standard with new employees that that just got the job. It was just he he has my vote as was as, a person that I think would be better for this city. So. Thank you. Okay Thank you, Miss Taylor. Are there any other public comments? Hi there. Christie Howard, 915 Bayshore Drive. While I believe that we are very fortunate to have two qualified candidates, I see a better fit with Mr. Rudd. Well, as experiences within a smaller community, I think that working with the smaller budget is actually more challenging. The smaller budgets that he has had to work with and make him scrappier. And when I look at what has happened within Crescent City with their small budget, it's clear that he knows his way around a grant. This is important to me as I see how our spending has escalated in recent years and the looming needs we have on our budget horizon. While Tarpon is a bigger city population wise, we are quite small in terms of how we operate and for better or worse, we've managed to retain a lot of the everyone knows everyone. And I think Mr. Rudd will understand and work within our dynamic the best. Thank you. There are any other public comments? Zeb Atkinson six. We didn't want East Orange Street. Like everyone said, I do not envy your what you're getting ready to go through, but I think this is a good point to say that cities can do this themselves. You didn't go out and hire some high priced firm to give you 16,000 people that you didn't have to pay them to whittle dow. You did it yourselves. So I think you should be applauded for that, in my estimation and Mr. Of course, I think has done a great job, so it's no disparagement on him, but I think the person that has had the large town experience or large city experience can learn the small town experience and manage from there, and can help the city grow if the intent is to grow or to redevelop or whatever. So that that would be the person that I go for, again, I don't envy what you're getting ready to go through, but I admire the fact that that the city has done it themselves as opposed to hiring another firm to come in and do it. Thank you sir. Thank you. Just got a compliment, Paul, anyone else? Georgina Francis, 15 Athens Street, first, I just wanted to say that, and I heard this from other city staff that I'm very proud of our city staff and our city, our community, for the just the entire process this time. And I can't really describe the excitement that you could just feel from yesterday, it's just the opportunity for, you know, like everyone said, growth and a new, just, just refreshing, refreshing to have a fresh start, at the same time, you know, they know they have big shoes to fill. And I'm also proud of the BoCC for, you know, making the right choice last time so that we could do the process, you know, the correct way, which we clearly have. You know, as you can see from yesterday and the meetings prior, obviously, the transparency is working this time. So my choice is, is Charles Rudd. And, you know, I picked Charles Rudd from the nine immediately, and I actually had, called him and talked to him, one of the, one of the conversations I had with him, he was actually on his way to Tallahassee. And that just reminded me, you know, our focus is redevelopment, you know, it just reminded me of the conversations that, you know, Frank has said about when him and Anita used to go and, even, Commissioner Coleus mentioned it. One of the charter revision meetings that, you know, we need to we need to have people that have those resources and those relationships with Tallahassee and other areas in the, you know, the community that can help us. You know, best facilitate with our, you know, redevelopment efforts, the, you know, with Max and your, you know, both answered, you know, questions last night were very, you know, competent, you know, with, with Max and, you know, I did some research, some articles about him and he does kind of have like a, a no nonsense attitude. And while some people like that, I don't feel like I think, you know, tarpon as well as other communities, we have a lot of nonsense. And you kind of have to deal with that. You just can't say like, no, we're not going to do that. You'll just make you'll you'll make enemies really fast. So it's just part of the job. Nonsense, and the biggest thing, and I think that you'll hear that from you've already heard it from many people, is growth. You know, a lot of people talk about we don't want to change and everything, and it's change and growth are not the same thing. You know, we're we are constantly growing. We need to we need someone who can grow with the city. And I think Charles Rudd has that opportunity. He if you, you know, he does not looking for a job anywhere else. If he doesn't get this, he's just going to stay in Crescent City, you know, and Charles, Max is looking at, which is fine. It's nothing wrong with that, other places in Florida which are still active searches that are a little bit behind our search right now, another committee, another community didn't they actually agreed from their board of commissioners? They wanted a five zero vote and they chose him. They had three and zero. But because they didn't get five, they didn't choose him. So and it's nothing against that. But just saying that, you know, he's looking for places in Florida in Charles Rudd. I think you know, we always say how special we are. And I think he recognizes that he's choosing us and only us, to grow. And he's done a lot in these little cities. And I know he doesn't have experience with like, larger cities, but he's kind of done what he can in those other communities. You know, rebranded Crescent City, he's got a lot of experience with diversity, so and I think that's really going to, you know, come in handy, and then just, like I said, everyone I've talked to the, the first comment I've heard for Max near, not no one said anything bad about him that I've talked to, but everyone has chosen. It's been close, but that they thought Charles Rudd was best for Tarpon. Not necessarily the better. Maybe city manager overall with experience, but the best fit for our town. And that's really, you know, your job tonight, and unlike everyone else, I don't, you know, not envying your job. I think your job is pretty easy tonight. That is your job to do. So, you know, I don't think it's that tough, but. And I would just like, you know, again, everyone I've spoken with, I'll just be five seconds. Has said that has picked Rudd and, a wise person at the Charter Revision Committee once said, the collective public will always make the right decision. So I think it's pretty easy tonight. But, you know, you've always done a good job with your voting regardless of the nonsense. So thank you. Is there any other comments, Mr. Jump? Any remote access comments? If anyone online would like to make a public comment, please raise your hand and you'll be allowed into talk. And we do not have any raised hands at this time. Okay, I'm going to close the public portion of the meeting and go to the commissioners, what I'm going to ask is, you can any commissioner can do whatever he wants, but I'm going to ask as a courtesy. Just let's go through a first round and give us your thoughts on both, candidates. And then we can see where everybody stands on that a little bit, and then maybe go from there on a round two. I'm sure it's going to take more than one round to come to closure on this thing. And, and, and then at some point, I'll ask for a motion, but I would ask not there to be a motion until everybody has had an opportunity to, to see their what they've got to say. So I'm going to go through, seniority, Vice Mayor Killian, I'm going to let you begin. Please first, I just want to thank staff. This is one of the most neutral, processes I've been a part of. And I'm very thankful for, Mr. Paul Smith. Mrs. Jane Kniffen, and the rest of the staff who did a great job in, screening and interviewing the applicants. I think both candidates are exceptional. They come with a little bit of different expertise, I like Mr. Max Snyder for his, for his finance background, ability to look at, manage from a bigger city. But at this current time, I would like to support Mr. Charles Rudd, there's a lot of things in his application. And during the interview process that, that caught my attention, mainly speaking with, a lot of Main Street experience as well, and not so much where it comes from, you know, the city manager experience. We understand that there's been a little bit less than the other candidate, but we know our main streets need to be looked at between the sponge docks and downtown, he's very familiar with redevelopment and redevelopment planning, and I think we're at a crucial point in our city's history and point in time in government in which we build on this foundation that this commission has set. And I was able to go through certain portions of the comp plan to show that the hard work, that planning, and zoning had done to make the categories easy for future boards to look at when making decisions and for the community to be able to hold the commission accountable when looking at applications. Because that's what it's really all about. I like the aspect in which, in his resume, there's a lot of, updating to the land development code. Code of ordinances. And that basically means to follow through with what we've pretty much started. And another thing that's really caught my eye was that as an economic development director for the City of Newport, Richie, and the city of Newport, Richie may only have a population of 16,000, but the nearby surrounding areas make Newport Richie much bigger than what that 16,000 mark states. And when we have an opportunity. To have someone who's familiar with this area of the Gulf Coast region, who's has an ability to, with the experience of an area that's a river, a river based area that has a historic downtown like Tarpon Springs, I don't want to take the opportunity to pass up on that. And I think we should try to, as a community, embrace it with, his experience and working with the CRA and other organizations to help build that community enthusiasm and, bring some life to the community. I think he's a safe pick for staff, for the community. I did like his, ability to communicate. I felt he was very approachable from from everyone, from every aspect. And, I just want to make sure I don't miss any. And when it comes to very familiar with the master planning and pretty much what we have started for this community, and, as of right now, that's why I would like to support. And I would ask if, when the time comes, being the vice mayor, that I do have the opportunity to make the first motion. Thank you. Well, Commissioner Eisner, thank you. Mayor. Very interesting to listen to people coming up and speaking about their interpretation and their impression of people, let me let me retract what I just said because I did want to thank I spoke with Paul earlier today, and I did want to put you up on a pedestal. You and Jane, you both did an amazing job, they hand-held us every step of the way. Not that we needed it, but they did handhold us, they actually, just so you know, gave us a list of questions to even ask. Just in case we didn't want to do that part of the work. But so I commend you for it. And I did cross out the ones I thought were inappropriate to ask because I knew the answer. But honestly, I thank you for all you did and doing, it was it was a different idea. When you get to speak to people, one on one for 45 minutes, than it is to have a town hall meeting, I did follow up. I listened to all of the town hall meeting comments that people were making, so I was kind of, up to date on what the impression was, I did want to respond, I know somebody brought up, that they can get up on issues very quickly, and that was one of my questions that I just wanted you to know. I asked Mr. Maxeiner, if he was familiar with Florida law, and he said he was not, and, I would just tell you, one of the funny comments I make up here is I'm doing this two and a half years and I'm dangerous. And why I say that is because there are a lot of things you have to learn about Florida law before you can run a city. They're both two very good candidates, I was impressed with both of them, any choice that somebody would make, I would pretty much support, because they're both are very knowledgeable, approachable, people, as far as I also wanted to make one more comment regarding, representation. We have our own representation and if, DeSantis ever signs my name to it, we will have representation on forward Pinellas. I don't think that's what the city manager does. City manager does other things. But I just wanted to clarify, because we didn't have representation for many, many years. They both impressed me. I asked very, I didn't follow your questions. Paul. I hope you're okay with that, but I've interviewed many, many people, and you develop a bit of a flow and you let people speak, I didn't have that with Mr. Rudd. With Mr. Rudd. Within the first few minutes, I got a feel that he was more suited for many reasons, that I don't want to spend the 45 minutes that I spoke to him about, but I asked him a very unique question that, I mean, I don't know what the others spoke about, but I asked him to interview me because I was done with the questions of what I got from him. And it was very interesting because he pulled his phone out and he had 6 or 8 questions, all about, you know, what a commissioner would want to see in a city manager. What a commissioner would want, what future we would have here in town. And I was so much so impressed by that. It's always good to get people's side of what they would like. What what you would like that city manager to be. So, And I'm taking nothing away from, either candidate. They're both great, but I'm going to initially now go with Rudd, Charlie Rudd. I was very comfortable with. I've asked him about, hurricane. I've asked him about flooding. I asked them about, he asked about the CRA area that we're adding on, and I said it's a different CRA, but it, you know, we talked about the reasons of why it came about, you know, it's funny that every commissioner that you would be here listening to had a different set of questions and answers that they felt most comfortable asking, I don't think anybody up here has had the same interview. We didn't follow any routine. And, you know, I'm impressed to hear the input of what, Commissioner Kulas said about his interview because he went after a certain thing with the comp plan and, you know, and I, I kind of did a different one. And I'm sure I'm going to hear a different one from John and a different one from everyone else. So, it was just it was a great experience. I want to thank everybody. I want to thank all of the people that came yesterday to, to listen to the, the city manager candidates, it's a great town. I love the town. And I got a feeling that, Charlie Rudd would be. Is he's. He said he's excited to come here, and it was a lot of things that I could sit and tell you as it was going on. I just got a really good vibe that that was the person. And, I want to thank you, Denise, for your comments. It was very nice what you had to say. And everybody's input. I really appreciate that. And thank you. Thank you, Commissioner Collins, let me start by stating that both candidates are excellent. I believe either of them has the requisite skills to be successful as our next city manager. Obviously, a special thanks to Paul Smith and Jane Kniffen for, their systematic and analytical methodology. And that worked wonderfully. That brought us these two candidates, they should consider starting their own headhunting firm. There's a lot of money in it, and you're good at it. So you might want to think about that in your next career. Getting back to the candidates, as I stated, they are both qualified based on their experience or they wouldn't have gotten to this point, like this. Like we said, there's, you know, 38 or whatever, a number of candidates. And it got down to these two. So they should both be proud of themselves. And they are both nice gentlemen. They were easy to have conversation with. And I would enjoy working with either one of them, so please understand what I say about the candidate that I favor. In no way is a condemnation of the other person I favor one over the other by a hair. I am prepared to vote for the hiring of Mr. Charles Rudd as our next city manager. I started both my interviews by letting each of the candidates know that they both met the basic criteria of education and experience to be our final two applicants. However, my decision would be based on fit. The question most important to me is which candidate is the best fit for our community? It is an advantage that Mr. Rudd is already a Floridian. He has dealt with the effects of hurricanes, heat and the other issues specifically affecting us, understanding our area and having lived here is a big positive to me. I see a better possibility for a longer tenure with Mr. Rudd being having been a natural Floridian. He has a strong planning background with his time in Pasco County on Main Street development and property redevelopment. We had a very nice conversation about our objectives as a community, about controlling growth and maintaining our small, small town charm and heritage. He was, as the commissioner said he was excited about helping us with fulfilling that vision. I understand that he currently manages a small town with only 20 employees reporting to him. I'm not sure this is a big disadvantage. We have a department head type of system here in Tarpon Springs. Only 12 people report directly to Mark. Of course, the department heads oversee their employees. Charles had to wear many hats while in Crescent City, so not having as many having department heads to lean on, he had to get his hands. You know, into the dirt. He told me stories about being out there after storms, moving debris with his mayor, the staff will naturally, a concern of mine is the staff will naturally be nervous and apprehensive about a change after having worked under the same city manager for many years, Mr. Rudd described a solid approach to working through the change in a way that will move the staff from nervousness and apprehension to engagement and excitement. And I was really happy to hear that Charles has made a commitment to being green as well. On a personal level, he's told me about the things he's done on a personal level to, be part of, of the sustainability program. So our sustainability Sustainability Committee and our staff should find him a willing partner in fulfilling many of those initiatives on a personal note, I can see Mr. Rudd blending into our community. He appears very approachable, with an infectious smile. I can envision residents being comfortable speaking to him at a local coffee shop or a restaurant. Charles wife. Charles's wife, Valeria, was born in Brazil. I think her ethnic background will help her assimilate well into our multicultural community. I see them both being active in our community, in many of our programs, including the rotary or the Elks or the Ahepa or the Merchants Association. I see them pitching in and being again part of our community. My main objective in interviewing these candidates was to be able to envision them in the role and hoping that they would be successful as our city manager, while having seen the proper qualities in both candidates. I favor Mr. Rudd, thank you. Commissioner DiDonato, I don't really have anything left to say. They've already said it, I do, I I'm excited today. This this is gratifying to me because I do feel that this was a very transparent process up until today, but I think there were reasons for that as well, I. Guess Commissioner, I I'm sorry, I already have a deal with Paul and Jane. We're going out and do the roadshow, so I can't say enough about you. Paul. And Jane jobs that they did all the department heads, many of them were in on the interviews personally. One thing I like about this process is that I've not heard anybody say they didn't get enough information on these candidates, and I've not heard any staffer that works for the city that has said they they didn't know or anything about our our process, our candidates, we originally, I think, picked a five and then we went to three. We lost one and we have two. And I'll tell you, I could work with either one of them. They're both exceptional, but it's the process that we went through to get there. And I hope we never waste money again. On Headhunters because we we've got the pattern. And James, I'd like you all to sit down and format that so that if ever down the road we need to do that again, you you've laid out a map for us to follow because it it couldn't have been a better process to m, I as I said, I like both candidates. Mr. Maxeiner is exudes with professionalism and certainly with knowledge, and so did did Mr. Rudd. However being, born and raised in the South, I am attracted to people that have the a warmness about them. And I felt that that was Mr. Rudd just he just open, receptive, eager, eager to contribute, eager to learn more. He's come a long way. And his experience, I think that he will work well not only with this commission, but more importantly with our staff and our department heads. And that, to me is good. And one of the interviews actually was Mr. Rudd. We talked about the perception of the employees. I we ended up talking both with Maxeiner two about what I thought of, of the department, the people that work here, and I told him I had complete confidence in them and that I feel I get emotional, sorry that I feel that they did and have done a job every time we've asked them to do it, they because back in the past, when I was here and in present when I'm here, they get the job done. As long as they have some direction and, and the equipment and the money to do it with. And I think Paul and Jane, you've proven that it's phenomenal. I can't thank either one of you enough. But I strongly support Charles Rudd and I feel bad for Mr. Maxeiner because he's certainly a good candidate. But my, the one feeling that I felt says we need to hire Mr. Rudd. Okay my turn. Paul, thank you. And, Miss Kniffen as well. I know she's home. Or was, with, an illness. Let me just leave it at that. Or else she'd be here. I also want to thank Irene and Michelle for, kind of the, background sort of work that you had to do to put a lot of things on for people, ball and Jane were pretty much the face with the commissioners, and Irene and Michelle made things happen behind the scenes. So all this could take place. I want to thank them as well. I also want to thank the commission from, getting from point A to point Z, I guess, right. We're here. So, before, I came to the meeting, I got a couple of emails from, people who expressed their, you know, their support and, you know, I'm not much of a gambling guy. I'm an engineer. So it's got to be right. Or else, you know, I don't say, well, maybe it'll be right. I, you know, I just say, well, it's got to be right. So, you know, their comments, they favored, Mr. Rudd and I said, well, does it you know, I went back to him. I said, does it bother you that, you know, it's a small town of 1600 and, 22 employees and, and by the way, for the record, it's not a full service town like Tarpon Springs is. It's doesn't have a police department. It's got a one person fire department. And that one person is from the county. And, there's a lot of things that are contracted out, whereas, we have very little that's contracted out. So, project management, plans and things like that, Mr. Rudd has, has, has, has done that, Mr. Eisner Mr. Maxeiner has done it as a way of life and, 3 or 4 towns that he's done as city manager also. The I want to say that the Crescent City is, what I would describe as an agrarian environments, a little more rural, whereas, East Moline, which is right outside Chicago, is a little more urban, like you would have here as well, which is a big difference. And, and also there I know that we mentioned diversity and, Crescent City, but there's also quite a bit of, diversity in East Moline as well, as well as a Greek community. And there's actually a Greek festival there that, that in talking to, Mr. Maxeiner, he's attended that. So there's, there's, you know, there's they're both pretty much evil, even on that. And, and I said that, before I came here, I was going to support whoever the majority of the commissioners would want to go with. And that's what I'm going to do. I'm not going to choose between either one of them, I listen to what the residents were saying. I've talked to the city manager about it. It's pretty much, 5050 with him. We've listened to the, staff. I think that, informally, there was a little bit of a preference prior to them. They actually meeting face to face for Mr. Maxeiner. This would have been out of the three. Mr. Gore, Mr. Maxeiner and Mr. Rudd. So, you know, I'm okay with any of them. I, the one question that, so everybody knows, from experience, honeymoons are very short for city managers. So, you know, they've got the commission to contend with who's ever selected. And this is kind of like a little bit of an editorial message on my part, because I'm obviously the mayor, but I've also been in the city manager seat as well. And, the city manager's honeymoon. Mark LaCour is the only one that's had several honeymoons, they go up and down, up and down, and, you know, when I came, I became the city manager. Everybody remembered me as the little kid before I went into the Navy. And I was everybody's, you know, young vatikiotis to George boy, which is my mom's side of the family. It was only a short time after that that I was the scourge of Tarpon Springs, because then I would start saying, no, I can't do that for you. There's we you know, I don't have the authority to do that. And why not? And all this other stuff. So one, one of the candidates asked me, what do you see as my objective for the first six months? And I said, to survive the transition. I said, that's what you need to focus o, just surviving the transition. And and learning the system. What we've got in place, everything's in place. If you just follow the processes, there are good processes. The end result will be good as well. And so I think either one of them would be, an excellent job in that regard. And, you know, I, again, I, tend to prefer, at these at least since we haven't done this in 25 years, more of a sure thing as far as experience goes. But on the other hand, I'm comfortable with, Mr. Rudd as well, but we'll see how it goes. I'm only going the other part of this. The other variable in all of this is I'm only going to be here another eight months or so. And so somebody else is going to have to be here, and there's going to be some OJT with whoever it is, whether it's, Florida law or whether it's, some other aspect of Tarpon Springs that's not consistent with, where they come from, so I just wish, for my part, this commission. Well, and I just hope that, you know, I want to ask that everybody's patient in this transition and make it as comfortable for them. And I'm also asking the residents to do the same thing, don't start. Calling with, you know, this and that right away. I'm not sure how it's going to work, the other good thing is, I'm not sure when a new city manager will come on board, but, Mr. Lucas's contract ends, as I mentioned earlier in January 2nd, 2025, he's still going to be here. There's only one city manager, and that's going to be the person we select today. And when they arrive. And then Mr. Lucas is going to be here, if he's needed in terms of information, background advice, whatever else. At the beckoning call of the new city manager. And I know Mark's going to be real good at that. And, and, and so I'm kind of looking forward to that so that, you know, the I think the commission's done a pretty good job. I also want to thank, former vice Mayor Lunt. Wherever he is. I know he was there last night, I heard, but, he kind of resuscitated this whole process, to get us to where we are today, so I want to thank him as well. I don't want to forget that, is there any other comments that it seems like we've got four in favor of? I just have one thing. Yeah I fail to thank this commission, I know there was some skepticism in the beginning, but I again, want to commend us for moving forward in the process that that Paul and Jane carried us through. So thank you. Okay, are there any other comments from anybody? Yes. I just wanted to say, mayor, I, you know, I've often thought about how the last time I went around and, I think I could have handled it a lot better. And, you took a lot of pressure at the time, and I think it could have been at least from my part, communicated much different. And it's weighed on me for a long time. And I just thought this would be the, perfect time to just send my apologies as how I acted. And, I'm just thankful to be on this commission during this current time to help make a decision for, for the community. And, I really think this process was, it was great all around. So just, I just want to thank everybody from staff to the community and to this board. Thank you. Sir, before we go to a motion, the last thing I wanted to say is, when I came here, honestly, I initially I had wanted a unanimous vote for whoever selected. And in looking at these, both these candidates, I honestly could not tell you how all this was going to play out. And I was just hopeful. But for me, whoever city manager historically has always been important for that person to be come in on a unanimous vote. So it's not A32. Everybody's behind him. They want him to succeed. So I think we're there now with this one, which I'm extremely happy about. And the other thing too, is everybody needs to know, as I used to tell the commission way back when, nothing is forever. You know, they used to wring their hands over an ordinance, you know, what are we going to do? I'm not sure about that. Look, pass the ordinance. If it doesn't work out, there'll be another opportunity in the future. You know, change it, whatever. So I think this is a bold first start for where we're going. And I'm hoping I'm wishing everybody well and good fortune, with who we have. And but remember, Tarpon is going to be here, I, God willing, and another 100, 200 years and I hope, Saint Nicholas continues doing this thing and pointing the direction of the hurricanes this way, that way, and not this way. So, anyway, I I'm very pleased. I hope everybody whatever anybody was saying about enthusiasm, electricity last night, I hope they sense the same thing here on this commission rather than us, kind of rolling up our sleeves and duking it out. So, Vice Mayor Kolya, you wanted to make a motion? Yes I make a motion to hire Charles Rudd as our next city manager. Second. Second. Irene, I'll leave it up to you as to who seconded. Go back and listen to the video. Whoever did first, second is the one you can record, are there any further comments? Just, just take a moment to appreciate Mr. Lucas. Mr. Marko. Of course. He's been stand up throughout this whole process. I think, I think he's even surprised how we all got along for, so long as we did. And this man really deserves a round of applause and. I'm just thankful that everyone's here and that we're all here together. And, really appreciate your service, Mr. Lucas. Thank you. Commissioner Koulianos, you've got your light on. I did, yeah. I want to reiterate that as well. I know we're going to have time before Mark leaves to, do our, you know, farewell and all get up and talk about how much we care about him. But, you know, I was actually speaking to one of the staff, people about him, and, and I, I was so impressed. And I still am with how every day he knows he's leaving and he knows he's being replaced. But every day he gets shows up and he does what he thinks is the best for Tarpon Springs. He he doesn't kick the can. Oh, there's a new guy coming out. I'm not going to deal with that. I'll just let the new guy handle it. He doesn't do that. He is been a consummate professional. You know, again, we'll have time to get into the more mushy things, but, but no, really, he he is handled this process went so smooth, primarily because of him. He has been great. And, anyways, I'll, we'll we'll have time for. He's not gone yet. I was going to be another month or two before the new guy gets here. I hope he gets here. So, anyway, Mark. Thanks. You know how Mark and I, we have our differences, but we always put the city first. So that's all I've got to say about Mark, yeah. I can't resist. Before. Before kuleana speaks again, I want to have a whole box of Kleenex on Mark's desk. I'm going to do Frank, go ahead. I just want to thank Mark. I thank you personally, I've known you for over 40 years, and what you've given our town is much appreciated. There's still two months to go, so everybody's attitude may change about it. So thank you. That's the way it's been, anyway, roll call, please. Commissioner DiDonato. Yes, Mr. Collins? Yes, Commissioner Eisner. Yes, vice mayor coleus. Yes, mayor Vatikiotis. Yes, we have one other, We have one other, motion that we need to. It's not on here, but it's. We talked about that. We need to authorize the city manager, Miss Sniffen, and our personnel director, Aaron Jackson, to determine salary contract. And when his reporting date would be. Is that correct? Okay. Anything else on that Mark? No. That's okay. So I have a motion to that effect. So moved. Is there a second second? Okay. Any comments from the commissioners okay. Roll call please. Commissioner DiDonato. Yes, Commissioner. Collins. Yes. Commissioner Eisner. Yes, vice mayor Coolio's. Yes. Mayor. Vatikiotis. Yes Okay, who said this was going to be tough? Let's go to, staff board comments. Chief young, got anything? Welcome back, by the way. It's good to be back. Thank you. Okay. Anything, no. City manager, of course. Don't look so sad. No. All right, I see me, okay. And Oh, Paul, please. Yes Of course. I just want to say thank you to each of the mayor and each of the commissioners. You've all been a pleasure to work with on this process. And I have to say thanks for your comments to us for our work that we did. But I think I'd be remiss not to mention that I think just about every one of those good ideas you liked came from Mark originally, and I just think he was so gracious, in helping us guide us through this, that I just want to say thank you to him for that. Yeah Commissioner Combs, vice mayor Killian, do you have anything? I just have a lot of mixed emotions, and I'm just, thankful we were all able to work together and be one as a community. Thank you. Okay, Commissioner got anything? It's never a bad decision when it's a unanimous vote. So, I want to thank everybody. I want to thank everybody for their input, you know, like, like it was said a number of times, either candidate was just a either one would have done very well here. I think we chose, accordingly. And I just looking forward to working with them. That's it. Thank you, Commissioner Williams. Yeah, I think the operative word today is excitement. I think we're all excited. I think the community is excited, again, we've loved working all these years with Mark, but it's a new beginning. And, I think the staff should feel the same way. I think, ever have ever. After having spoke with Mr. Rudd, I think he's going to make them comfortable, and I know that he's going to have Mark's help in doing that as well. So I'm excited and I think you all are as well. So thanks. Let them know. Paul, could you get the two candidates, back in? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Is there any. This is the tough. If we don't, they could see it on tape. It's not a good way to find out. Would like everybody to stay here, please. And. They're listening in. Y'all can just hold on a second. I want to recognize the, candidates one last time and thank them for being here. I, I asked Paul to bring you all back in. I just wanted I hope he shared the outcome with you know, Mr. Rudd, we've selected you as the, the new city manager, and I apologize for doing it in such open, was hoping Paul would say something, and. But I want to thank both of you and, extreme gratitude for having the confidence in tarpon Springs to be here, Mr. Maxeiner, you I know from your record you're an excellent, city manager, a lot of experience and I wish you well in the future. I doubt that, given the need for good city managers around the country, there's not going to be any issue with you. I know we had talked about your retirement from East Moline, and you're looking for another opportunity, you could very well be, a city manager 20, 20 miles from here. And one of our 27 cities in Pinellas County. So I wish you well on that. And, Mr. Rudd, you had the confidence of the, of the commission of getting along with them. And, Mr. Rudd, I welcome you, as well. And so I want to thank, thank you both for being here. So if we can give them all a. Meeting adjourned at 536.