Discussion of the Board of Commissioners of the City of Tarpon Springs. On Tuesday, June 11th, 2024 at 5:30 p.m. Roll call, please. Mayor Vatikiotis here. Vice mayor Coleus here. Commissioner Eisner here. Commissioner Collins here. Commissioner DiDonato here. Okay this is a special session. We, scheduled this at 530, this afternoon. One of the reasons, is that, each of the commissioners was able to go through the applicant packet. For the city manager, and we needed to get some approval done. Before too long. So we felt that this was important to do that, it's just a one item agenda, and it's the approval of City manager applicant's list to proceed with in-depth background checks, city manager, of course. I know you know, you're here and we've got, Mr. Smith and Miss Kniffen here. I'm going to turn it over to you. I'll go ahead and have Mr. Smith and Mr. Kniffen get up and just explain the fast version of how we got here, how we got to this list, and, and then the board will take it from there. On what they want to do. And moving forward. Okay. Janus and HR director, we took the all the applications and went through them with an eye to qualifications and whatever, we thought was important in the job description , there weren't a lot of factors in the job description, but we also took into consideration, the job announcement and the wishes of the commission, so this is just a what I call a thousand yard overview. It's not a ranking. It was not a ranking. It was just showing you the facts and laid out a few parameters that, were important for a city manager. Paul. So since that list was put together, we spoke with each of the commissioners and from there got their input on which candidates they wanted to look at with further detail. And so the list you have in the back up is an alphabetical listing of those candidates that the various commissioners put a yes next to, that's what your list. It's meant to serve as a starting point. Whether some commissioners had some maybes that they want to add to that list or perhaps you all want to work together to make that a smaller list. As we move forward to the next step, we stand by to assist. Okay Is that it? Between the two of you or. Okay. Always very brief and I would hope that this whole process goes that well. So we'll see, I think, each of you, each of the commissioners spent time with, Miss Kniffen and Mr. Smith and, and, now, remember, we've got one hour for this commission meeting when we adjourn this meeting, we we're going to start the other one at 630, which is the public hearing on the budget. I, I don't really have anything, we're how many applicants do how many applicants are on this list that we've, that we have 10 or 11 on this list? Yeah. On this list in front is nine candidates. External candidates. Okay. So I hope, there was an email sent out. Information was sent out. So I hope each of you have had a chance to look at that. So let me go ahead and go to each of the commissioners and, we'll start with the vice mayor, congratulations. This is your first evening as vice mayor. Thank you. Thank you, I like the list of applicants, the ones that I had that were, in my top selection process are in here with with the rest. So, I feel good. And, just waiting to go through the rest of the process. And I was happy to see that we could get it a week earlier, because things can happen and change real quick with some of these candidates. So thank you all. Okay. Vice mayor, I'm sorry, Commissioner Eisner, that's going to yeah, that's going to happen. But for just a little bit, I pretty much, had all of the same as what was on the list, some of them I had, double check marks, too, which were ones that I preferred. And I think there were a couple in there, I think there was one in there that I did not want, but that was about it. So I mean, I'm happy to reduce my list down. I could reduce it down to about five people. Okay well, the objective is to be inclusive so that, for this evening and, well, let's get all the commissioners and we'll go from there. Okay, Commissioner Collins. Yeah, I'm I'm happy with the list, I want to thank, Jane and Paul for doing an excellent job of. I really like their their weighting criteria. I thought it was well thought out, and I think it got us a good number of people that, we should do our backgrounds on and see, see who they are. So I'm happy with this list. Okay, Commissioner, DiDonato, first of all, I just kudos to Paul and Jane. I think the job you all did was tremendous. Having gone through this now for a second time, this is even way easier than the first time. So I just want to commend staff for the way in which they did it. But, my candidates, I basically had eight, six of whom were on the list that we were given from Paul and Jane, two were not. And I, I just want to recognize Renee Vincent and Scott Young for filling out applications as well. I think you're both would be great choices. And you are on my list. So. But I would hope that we narrow it down to 4 or 5. It's up to you guys what you want to do, but that's that's my preference. And then we go forth with the background checks and set up interviews. All right. I think the idea was to, to, have more rather than fewer at this point, there's, you know, there's some there's some people on the list that, from my perspective that, you know, I've had conversations. They wouldn't be on my list. But the fact is that, in the, as attorney saying abundance of caution, you don't want to wind up having too small of a list and having a couple of people get kicked off, not for anything really wrong, but just because of something that's seen that doesn't sit well, with some of the commissioners. And maybe that changes their mind and that reduces the number of their, ones that they are keen on to, to those that are, that to, to a number that would be fewer. So, I'm happy I wouldn't even mind doing 1 or 2 more, the question I had, though was on this, not that I've got anybody that I would add myself, but if some commissioner wanted to add another name or two, I don't have an issue with that. At this point, the I probably would not be too good about, reducing the number to 4 or 5 or or at this point, I'd like just to go through the process, have we have we gotten that person that's going to do the. Well, that's the thing I was going to bring up. What what is the update? What's the update to tonight on where we are with the, with with the with the firm or the people to, to do this search. We are currently, pursue doing. Thank you, we're currently pursuing, the of the background checks through the company that we do use for employees, but we will be asking for a very much greater list of things to check, I don't have a price list for you yet, but, they've been fairly reasonable, I can't give you an estimate, but we will update you as we get one, but it's a firm that we've used for probably 4 or 5 years. Well, and I've seen some of the different options and backgrounds and the ad on there, I think it's a, I think it's going to be a number that certainly these it's a manageable number. If you do all of these candidates. And again the idea of course you're not really going to knock them down until you get this full in depth one and then knock down. But again, even if a couple are added, I don't think I don't think what the cost is in of being. I think it's going to be a little less than I was predicting the 750 to 1000. It looks like with this company and all the add ons, and we may need to add another add on, I don't think I think we're going to be be, below or at that. So I think we're good price wise, especially the money we're saving by not doing it. We're good price wise. We're not worrying about cost of these. If 1 or 2 are added, definitely we can hand this list. I don't think it's going to be cost prohibited. So don't let don't let cost do it. I think the cost is going to be fine. However we do it. So that shouldn't influence if you add one or if you want to take ones off to get the price down. Price should not be an influence on this. We're going to be in a in a good place, to handle. And the in-depth background may show you a lot of different things that you need for these. So Okay. Are there other comments from anyone ? So we've got the nine and, do we need to read those off to have a motion to accept the list that, Miss Kniffen and Mr. Smith are putting forward? You want to read the names, Mr. Smith and Miss Kniffen, could you read the names of the applicants that we've decided on for the background check, please? This is the list of nine external candidates for city manager that the board of commissioners is directing staff to do further background research on and bring back for further consideration on, these names are Eric Bostwick, Joseph GA. Thomas Hutka, Patrick Jordan, Douglas Maxeiner, Scott Moy, Charles Rudd, James Slayton, and Jacob Smith. Okay And these were in alphabetical order. Yes, mayor. I just want to be clear about that. Thank you. All right, is there any questions to that list, Commissioner Eisner? So, I'll just I'm going to say what is on my mind, and I hope people know, James Slayton is in a run for he's in the finalist of two different counties right now as a city manager, just to let you know. So I don't know if it pays to you know, when you have somebody in a finalist, whether you. We should go through with that. That's just my only you're basically saying because he's on the finalist list, maybe we should take him off our list. I do, but I mean, you know, that's not my vote. That's just, you know, that's what I don't. I mean, I think you Miss Kniffen. Go ahead, as of Friday, we had contacted all of the people, and each and every one of them is still interested, including Mr. Slayton. No. Yeah. He may decide to wait and see what happens with, the city. I always love updates. Yeah. Okay. Okay. So I am going to, ask for a motion and a second to approve the list that Mr. Smith read off of the nine applicants, so that we can pursue the background investigation based on the in-depth investigation that, Miss Kniffen, I would suspect would need feels that we need to have on that on those applicants. Is that is that acceptable? Yes Is there a motion and a second I just want to clarify then if we do all nine, then we're going to go later and reduce it down to the number we're going to interview. Or are we planning on interviewing nine people? I'm sorry. Say it again once the background checks come, come on. These nine people, are we going to narrow it down to 4 or 5, or are we going to interview all nine people? Oh, no, I think the Mr. Smith. Go ahead. You're standing there nodding your head. Go ahead. There is a process. Go ahead. Well, I think the discussion was to narrow it down once we do that background check to revisit all of this and bring it down to a list of candidates, that's big enough for you to have choices, but not so big that it's a cumbersome process. We're well, just go ahead. I shouldn't make any difference, I guess on on on time factor. But as Commissioner Eisner is noted, I to know of at least one candidate on this list that is strongly being considered by another municipality in Florida. And the longer we take in this process, the less chance we've got. So yes. All right. So my question is, I know we spoke on what our ideal amount of candidates should be. Did you get a consensus and are you willing to chat about what you felt? All of us thought those numbers would be? Well, that's something we thought that should be a conversation in the sunshine with all. All y'all to decide when these come in, what the next step of doing that with, there's several different ways you can go. You can have, you know, there's several. After we get the end of background and you have all the candidates and all their background, there's several different ways you have you can go before you actually decide on the ones that you got a group of people that you're going to fly in, bring up, do all that stuff with, and that process would be one, you decide. And there may be a preliminary thing you want to do to examine the candidates, either by zoom or something else . Before you bring the final list. You could just go with the information you got and come up with a final list, you have to think about it's best that you discuss and think about what that's when you have these nine and all the information on them, how you want to get to the candidates that you're actually going to, you know, fly in, set up the two day process, go through and do is there another step of looking at them that you want to want to do, so that's something this board very much, is going to have to decide what that next step is and maybe talk about a little bit tonight about about what the different ideas are. And we can research and they can research and see what steps you need to take. What is that? What else do you need when all this information comes in, to break it out, you may want you may want to establish something to find videos of them in, in meetings and commission meetings to look at something. There may be other things you might want to do, or you have enough information available to you to get it down to a manageable three, five, or however many candidates you think to come forward and go through the process. That's something all you need to talk about together and figure out what that what that next step is when you have all the information, okay, I'm ready, but let me, let me let me ask a question before we go further on these background checks along those lines, as far as additional information, are we going to be given those reports on each individual? We do plan on sharing the information with you. Yes Okay. Is that going to be is that typical of what's done or, different organizations do it differently, in, in in the view of transparency, as long as we're within the Fair Credit Reporting Act, we're, we're allowed to share it with you. Yeah, they are public documents. Is that. Yes Okay. They will have to be information redacted, probably from from some of them. Okay Commissioner Kelly, you have your light on. Yeah. So I think what we do is we empower, Miss Kniffen and Mister Smith to get started on this tomorrow morning. Get them. We empower you to make the decision on, how you know, the background checks, whatever the alternatives you think are, you know, how in depth I don't know if it's like an a la carte thing you guys do what you need to do. Get started on it first thing tomorrow morning, then hopefully these things will start. They'll they'll jump on it right away. Get these background checks. It's Tuesday. We may have background checks on most of these or all these guys by by Thursday. So then if we do, then you get us all into your office like we did before, either on Friday or Monday. And we use the same process we did to come up with this. Nine what once we see the background checks, we'll probably be able to all, you know, it looks like, you know, we're all pretty reasonable on seeing things pretty similarly. So we may be able to knock this down to 4 or 5 people. Then we they come back on Tuesday. They put it on the agenda for Tuesday to come back with a list. And we can jump on this thing. So I think you got out of state, you even on our own, you've got out of state people. And that's right. That's that's 2 to 3 weeks at minimum process on out of state to get the full that much to get the full the even the background check, we at least empower them to get started, get this thing cranking as fast as we can. And if we have to have a special session the following Tuesday, we do what we got to do. Well, the plan was to get on once you decided out of the plan was to get on the first thing in the morning, okay? And get them processed and done as fast as possible. Get them all back. It's just the depth of the out of state ones is going to be the holdup, because we got some that's gone to several states and stuff. So that's that's the that's the whole deal with technology. Now they find stuff out. You know, it's not like, okay, we're not going up to those states to deal. You're going to go on the internet, you're going to do what they do, the bad things are going to pop up quick, I think we're going to be able to do something fairly fast, so at least we can have something by at least if we can't do it on Tuesday, we have it the following Tuesday. We have a special session. We narrowed down our last 3 or 4. We agree that we're going to interview them and get this thing rolling. So anyways, that's my two bits on it, I hate to rain on your parade, but, the city manager mentioned the fact that there are a number of people out of state, that in itself will take some time, even when they're searching databases . But for the depth of the investigation or the background check that we are doing, some of those take a bit longer. So I'm suggesting that we would be lucky if we get the process wrapped up in 2 or 3 weeks. Well Miss Kniffen, the way this before, Vice mayor, let me go to you. I've got a question for Miss Kniffen, but go ahead. Sure. I like, Commissioner Collins, area. I understand we're going to have the two three weeks for the background checks. At some point, we're looking at coming down to 4 or 5 candidates, and we just got to decide when that day is going to be. But I'm all open for special sessions, anything we need to help, keep the process going. So I'm very open to it. Okay. Miss Kniffen, when we, contract or direct the person or agency that to do this, they're not going to report back to us until they've got all nine completed. Is that correct? Yes, the other thing that, it's not a, it's just a, a process that we have to go through is that we have to obtain a release from each and every one of these candidates to conduct that background check. So that's a legal requirement. So it depends on how fast we can get. We can send out the document for them to sign. And when they get it back then we can proceed. That's you know, this is, going back to, our consultant. Slovin. And associates, if you all recall, there was quite a bit of time that was kind of dead time between him collecting and then whittling it down. And that's what all this was. And he was going through these background checks, you know, talking to them about, well, what is this exactly mean? And that's when he came back to us with the, the 3 or 4. I'm hoping that we'll have a number of great larger number. I think right now, we just have to move on with the process and then if we don't see anything back in maybe two weeks or something like we can inquire about a status report on it, and you can maybe we can ask you to do that. Now give us a status report in two weeks. If we don't, my memorandum would be fine. Yeah. That's good, if we don't hear anything back from the organization, let's go to, Commissioner Eisner. Thank you. Mayor, I have I have two things, one, I would like to request that there was one resume that came in with a font that I couldn't even read. So I would like to have that if possible. If they could send out to that person and have that redone, and also the second thing, if the board decides to agree with me that we should also have all of their requested salaries because just a few of them put it out there, it would be good to have an idea of if they're out of touch with us. Why? You know, this would be a consideration before we bring it down to the three, 4 or 5. However, however many, you know, some I did go through all all of the resumes and some of them gave, you know, a lot of information and some of them, you know, won a cover shoot. You know, I mean, and everything in between. So I'd like to get as much information on the people that we've selected rather than going back into, you know, just get as much as we can on their request as well. So we're making an educated decision, that's all. Okay, Commissioner. Would it be possible to get the signatures for approval by e signatures online? Background checks. Can you get them electronically? Yes we will. We will definitely scan them to them. So. So, and ask them we should be talking days to get permission instead of weeks though. Yeah. Okay. All right. The only other thing you see, Commissioner, I think that's a good point because there were several, even on this one, there was one candidate that I chose based on some other parameters, but when asked, asked for the blue column, which is one of the ones I used, they didn't have anything. So if to me, if you're asked to fill it out and you don't provide all the information, then I'll go on to somebody else. But I'm up to whatever this board wants to do. I agree with you. Okay? And, regarding, Commissioner Eisner's point, you'll ask for any missing, salaries that are not there. Okay. Yeah. Anything else? While we're here tonight? Anything else you want to ask of them while we're in the background process? We, you know, we'll we'll give them anything else the board wants, tell them, you know, they're required to send to us to get get to you. Okay. Vice mayor, I'm looking at the calendar right now, and I really want Commissioner DiDonato to be part of the selection process. It's. You know, I know we have the special election going up, coming on, how realistic is it that we can make a selection even before that, before the August 20th or the swearing in? Yes You made that point before, and I thought it was a good one, that, that the person that's going to be there for the next year and a half should be making the final decision on that. No, no, no, I think Commissioner DiDonato right now should be involved in that. Yes. Okay Well, as of right now it's June 11th. If you, go three weeks, it's going to be the first week of July. And I would suspect that if we don't have a decision made by August 20th, we're in big trouble, so I would suspect that, we can probably work assuming three weeks for right now, let's go ahead and schedule a couple of meetings. You know, work with the commissioners, maybe in three weeks, schedule a special session to go over the, the, investigations or whatever. The background checks, and then also to talk about those things that we, Commissioner Koulianos brought up as far as, or was it, somebody or as far as, whether we're going to be looking for, City manager qualification certification and all those other things that we had, requested is that that's what you were talking about, right? That we need to have that conversation at some point. Well, just if there's anything else you want to ask of the of the group. No, there was some discussion where I can't. I thought it was Commissioner Kelly, and it may have been, maybe, Commissioner Eisner were there, we needed to look at the actual qualifications of individuals. They may not satisfy everything that we've got. The Icma certification, and I don't think all nine are Icma certified commissioner. Yeah, well, there's not brought that up. Yeah there's. Yeah, in the beginning, but there's some that aren't Icma certified. But I'm. I chose them anyway. And then there's others that just under under license and certifications training. They don't have anything. So it's. Yeah, we went I didn't include anybody like that. No. But we went through that with, the, internal auditor. We had required them to be, CIA certified certified internal auditor. And I don't think Mr. Poulos was, but we had a requirement that he become city. I'm sorry, CIA certified, within a certain amount of time, we could we could do that. As far as any applicant as well. The other problem. Well, it's not a problem. It's, it's I'm sure they're going to learn more of the city as they go along as well. I just want to make sure we when they've got their brochure. I think when you compare the licensor and certificates to the, the training and what the job titles they've actually had or experienced. In other words, I think those those can balance the scale somewhat depending upon how much experience they have. I mean, if they've been a city manager, if they've been an assistant city manager, certainly they can get on board. But and then we can encourage them to get Icma. I wouldn't want to necessarily exclude some of these because if they've already had the experience on the job. So all I'm saying I it's up to again. So why don't we in three weeks have a special session scheduled for, whittling it down to, x number of candidates. The commission will decide. There may be two, there may be four. There may be six that we want to interview. We'll decide the type of interview at that time, whether we will have it like the last time they will come forward, or, we would have zoom, like we did with the attorneys, there's, there's a number of ways we could do this to get it down to. I'm not sure whatever the commission decides, 1 or 2. Finalist, I don't know, and have them come forward for an actual in-person, interview. I think that might be consistent with you as far as flying people in from out of state, I think. I think the team will talk with each of you along the way while we're going through the background to try to get everything, all the different ideas together. So we have more information when we come in three weeks to that meeting. The I think that would also be give them an opportunity to see the town as well, unless they've already come on their own. The one one question I wanted to bring up, that I've talked to the city manager and we need to kind of roll this in at some point, I don't think last time we did this, and I think it was a timing issue, and I think we had wanted to do that was somehow, involved of the and I know maybe I don't quite remember maybe there was some objections to some of the commissioners on this, but, I think one of the concerns is that you have from some of our city staff is not wanting to upset the apple cart. From what we've got right now in terms of a smooth running engine and, and, there's quite a concern as far as, someone you coming in and, not knowing this person is until the first day they show up at, let's say, a staff meeting with the city manager introduces them, and, and then that's when they get to know them. I think it's I think we need to think about a way of having these candidates, I don't want to say shade, but somehow, looked over by our city staff to see if there's something that may be an issue with them, or maybe they might have somebody that they could, you know, that they could. I don't know, maybe talk to you individually about or I know a lot of you have personal relationships. I maybe there could be a, an employee committee that we formed to look at this, let me let me go to Commissioner Collins first. And then Commissioner DiNardo, I'll come back to you. Go ahead. We discussed it, in my in my breakout session with, Paul and Jane, we discussed the department heads having a chance to meet these candidates as well. And having a, a information sheet, some kind of a thing that they could fill out anonymously. They don't need to have their names on them, but that way we can accumulate those and get the opinions of them without, because they're not going to want to say something bad about somebody who ends up being their boss. Right? So it could be anonymous. They, you know, it's handed out to all the department heads. They fill it out after meeting the and we and we set the criteria of what we want them to evaluate of these of these candidates. So that would be a nice. And then we could get that information to get a sense of how they came across to the department heads. And that would give us something as well. Okay let me go to Commissioner I that's not a bad idea at all. I will say that as I, as I remember from when we did this once before, department heads were welcomed, you know, as long as their job permitted for them to attend the interview sessions, they don't they don't ask questions, but they they attended. We also had a little social that night, before the interviews that everybody was welcome to, including the public , were several people from the public came and talked to the candidates as well. So whatever this board wants to do. But that's what we did in the past. Okay, I think at that special session, that next special session, we need to make a determination on that process as well, I again, I don't have any ideas, but I think it's important for at some level, the staff to be involved, the social, watching the interviews, maybe, I don't know, I think these are all good ideas. That and I, I'm hoping that Miss Kniffen can come up and city manager with some feedback from the staff, as well as maybe they've got an idea and we'll look Largo I know had a process involved in their process involving the department heads. I think Saint Pete, we'll look at those because there's been a lot of recent city managers in Pinellas County going through, and we'll look to talk to you about what their process got. But I know at least Largo had a process where they're, you know, when they're going around in their different interviews and stuff. One of those sets of interviews was was with a group of staff selected. So we'll have all that information for you at their what some other cities have done in the process. And to modify or, you know, to give the department heads, you know, some involvement even just to meet the candidates. Right Okay, let's let's continue. Is there any other, business concerning this item that we need to finish up on, or you'd like to have some direction on anything at all? They say no, no, I think I heard the part that I wanted to hear, which is another special session coming up to formalize that next process. I really think you all as a group, that's going to be the way it's going to get done. That's right, we didn't quite finish that. So in in three weeks plus plus meaning a few days or whatever. Right. The special session. And so let's plan on perhaps a week after that to have the final selection or do it that same night. But I would say at least give it one week between that special session where we talk about this criteria, establish the process for the, staff. And then one week after that to give that an opportunity to kind of mature a little bit, or maybe should it be longer than that two weeks after that, one week after that. Yeah, let's plan on one week after that to go ahead and have another meeting to reduce the number to either a finalist or a couple of finalists. Is that it? Yeah. Or was it five? We're going to go from nine. Whatever you all choose, you may have 2 or 3 top candidates and that would come through. So why don't we have the special session and then the that's where you and if we need another meeting right after that we can do that. But right now at least two special sessions to finish up this process. How's that? Is that acceptable to everybody? I yeah, I just it seems like we're adding an extra an extra thing, as I understand it, we're going to get the background checks on nine people. And then from that nine people, we'll either agree to interview all nine or we'll agree to interview 4 or 5. Well it shouldn't I don't think take very much time to do that. In fact, we submitted when we did it before I think we submitted our top three. We made sure the clerk had that. And then then we voted right away on it. And then the interviews were set up. So, you know, I mean, you can't at least I wouldn't want to make a final decision. And I don't think any of us would without the interview. So but I want to get to those interviews, is all I'm saying. I don't I don't want to lose somebody because we took too long. I think the easiest to set up like the budget, a meeting and then a second meeting if necessary. Or we could just just get the two dates set up. And if you do it in the first one, fine. If not, you've got the next date a week later, to continue. So we'll, we'll get two dates set up if we can do it in one, fine. If for some reason you need extra time. But we'll have the two dates set up. All right, for whatever comes up, okay. Commissioner Koulianos, I think what we do is we, we follow the same process we've been following. We you you go ahead. And I think the first motion should be to approve the nine, candidates for, for, background checks and then power the, the staff to go ahead and do that, and then secondly, we use the same process we did to get down to these nine as these background checks come in, you can get us into your office together because it seemed like that worked well, because then you you get a, a survey of the commissioners. And then if we're all kind of picking the same 3 or 4 people, then it's going to narrow it down by itself. They'll be able to do it for us, just like they did, narrowing it down to these nine, because what they did was they kind of they talked to all of us, got the consensus and came up with this. Nine so now when we do this next process, we do the same thing. We just keep meeting with them and they will. Then if it narrows down to like four people just let me just throw a caution to the wind, okay? I don't think we should be whittling it down by to anybody in private so that they come back from 9 to 3 based on what we told them behind the scenes. We need to be real careful with the Sunshine Law. Now I understand that, okay, they did that to come up with these nine. No, we didn't eliminate anybody. I said, who do you have? And they came. I had three people, but I could care less whether they had 10 or 12. But they're going to give us these names, okay. They're going to give us these background checks. We're going to we're going to evaluate these background checks. Then we're going to come up with the names of people we want to go forward. We're not necessarily eliminating people because we're just going to pick the ones that we want to go forward. If there's a general consensus of these same five four names keep popping up, they can come back the same way they did here with, okay, we got four names and then we can vote on those names. We it may it may take care of itself rather than having to constantly set up further workshops that slow this process. Like the mayor said, your attorney is going to tell you that's that's that's going too far. All right. They gave us they gave us the list of they gave us a spreadsheet of the applicants ranked according to some point system that they had. And I went back and I said, okay, well, look, you know, I could, you know, cut off or 60, 55, I don't care. The people that are above that, I'm not so sure about this or that, but I also said, I don't want you to eliminate them based on what I'm saying. These are just observations. Right? So they came back with nine, based on on what they felt would work in terms of the point system and the qualified options. And that's what we got this evening. I don't I think it's good that everybody said, well, my finalists are on there is this stuff, but I don't think that was their objective is to make everybody up here happy. I can tell you there's a couple of people that I wouldn't have wanted on there, but I could care less at this point. So, the next round ought to be the background investigation means we have a public meeting to, you could have your private meetings on each of the individual will, but we still have to come back with all nine individuals and have a discussion on each and every one to eliminate them as a commission publicly. Whatever expedites the process. I understand, but it's I understand, I know, but go ahead, Commissioner, vice mayor. Yeah. So, mayor, July 2nd will be three weeks from today. We're looking at a special session to narrow down to whatever our final candidates are between July, the week right after, between July 8th and 12th. Does that look right, city manager. Yeah. And again at that meeting the second, maybe you've got that decision whittled down and then we're setting up for the whatever process you do. So if, I'd like if, if all the background checks come together at once, then I think we should be able to dwindle it down to our final contestants on July 2nd. I agree. Okay. No, I don't have a disagreement with that. I mean, I think that's a good idea. I mean, I think that night , for example, we would whittle it down to five we can talk about. Okay, let's do a zoom on these five between now and next week or the next special session, and then we will it down to 1 or 2 finalists. Then we still have to invite them in. And then also at that July 2nd meeting, I would like to have that process with, you know, memorialized as far as the staff goes, how they're going to be involved in this, as well. And then so just for me talking right now, so we'll July 2nd will be the target for the special session there. We can we can go through given that we've got the reports back there, we can go through the, the, the nine individuals will it down to some number that we decide on and then schedule the next, and then between and then also agree as far as how the, the staff is going to be involved in that at the next commission. And then between that meeting and the next one, have a zoom perhaps zoom meetings with each one of those 5 or 4 or whatever. We I, I will do a zoom, but I prefer we invite them and sit them down and talk to them. That's what we did before they actually came here. You want all five to come here or. No, I'm. I was ready to pick three. Final three. That's what I'm saying. After you do the five and we eliminated, we have the next meeting that, basically eliminates it to 1 or 2 finalists. Then we have the, selection. Why? Why don't we just go to the three then? I mean, it just seems like we're adding an extra step. The commission. No, if that's what the commission wants, that's fine with me. If we want to go from 9 to 3 and then interview all three, that's fine with me too. But somewhere along the line, I'd like for the city staff to be. You're right, though. We need. We need to establish it because we've talked about this 3 or 4 times. So why don't we do that? Let's see how it goes. Do the July 2nd schedule. Another one about a week after that. Is that what we're talking like, are we looking at a 5:00? Because remember, we have a regular meeting that night at 5:00 before the second, and then the 630 meeting will just be advertised, conclusion of the at conclusion of the. It might have to be a little earlier than that. 430, maybe 430. Yeah yeah. I mean, if we're talking about going from 9 to 5, everybody's available early 430 ish or something like that. Before the regular meeting to take care of that on the second. Okay. Is that all right with you, I'm ready to make my selection tonight. So anything after that, I'm. I'm agreeable. Pretend for a while. I'll pretend. Okay. Whatever you say. All right? I think we understand. I think we understand. Yeah. Commissioner DiDonato, you're on board with all of that. Okay, so, Miss Jacobs, do we have a motion and a second on the nine to do the. Okay, may I have a motion and a second to do the, background investigations on the nine individuals that, miss Kniffen and Mr. Smith presented to us this evening. So moved. Is there a second? Second? Okay If there is no further comments, roll call. Commissioner DiDonato. Yes, Commissioner Collins. Yes. Commissioner. Eisner. Yes. Vice mayor. Coleus. Yes Mayor. Vatikiotis. Yes. And then, city manager, of course. You don't need a vote on the July 2nd meeting, right? Or anything. Okay it'll be all set. Mr. Smith and Miss Kniffen, if everything's clear. Crystal clear to you. All right, all right. Get more information. We're actually. Honestly, we are relying on you. I mean, no matter what we say, if, you know, it's your experience, that's, you can listen to us if we don't make sense sometimes, it's like the king has no clothes. You need to tell us, you know? Hey, you're walking around naked here, so I will say, since you opened the door, I think when you get to that final interviewing of your external candidates, you should have more than one and probably more than two. I would think you'd want three, because if one of them or more does not turn out to be what you think, you got some other options. I, so you want my. I think we're not short of eagerness here, as you saw this evening. So, is there anything else from anybody before I adjourn this meeting? Anything else? Okay. Meeting adjourned at 615. And for information, we'll be reconvening at 630 with the public hearing. Budget. Yeah. This is. Gonna go down. Yeah. I called to order the budget public hearing. Special session of the Board of Commissioners of the City of Tarpon Springs on Tuesday, June 11th, 2024 at 6:30 p.m. Roll call, please. Mayor Vatikiotis here. Vice mayor Coleus here. Commissioner Eisner here. Commissioner Collins here. Commissioner DiDonato here. Okay. The purpose of this meeting, this public hearing, actually, it's a budget meeting for the public to provide the commission their comments, observations, their wishes, concerning this year's budget, it's an it's a charter commission. I'm sorry. A charter requirement that was put into place a couple of years ago. And I think it was, something that was badly needed. And so we're here to listen, to hear, to see what the public has to say, we have I know it's the weather's not been real good. We've got, a couple of people here, and we've also got several emails as well for, expressing their observations. City manager, of course, I know we've got you for introductory comments, so go ahead and start that. Yeah The main thing I want to do before Ron gives a brief presentation and then we go to the real purpose of the meeting. Hearing from the public is that that this process of the citizen input for the budget is not just this meeting tonight we have had connect tarpon open, for 2 or 3 weeks before the meeting to get input, and I must say I'm disappointed because last year when we did it, we had a lot of input. This time we only had six responses, but the good news is that you've got from this meeting tonight until the first public work session of the budget to get your information to the commissioners, what you want to see. That meeting is July ninth, I think their first workshop, remember, that's a workshop. So that's not where the public speak. But you've got a chance to go on connect Tarpon, between now and July ninth and put any input you want, for the board to consider when they go into their budget work sessions and budget session process. So before you have an opportunity, tonight is an opportunity again with the weather. But that's not your last chance. You've got about a month. To get that input to all the Board of commissioners on connect Tarpon and we get the information. So with that, I'll go to Ron to give the brief report that we can see. Or if people watch the tape from tonight and then can put the input in, I'll have you start, Ron. Okay. Good evening. Mayor, commissioners. Ron Herring, finance director and as the mayor was saying, a couple years ago, the voters approved the city conduct a public hearing before June 30th of each budget cycle. This will be the second budget public hearing last year was the first, it passed when it did at 88, this next slide is more of an informational slide where you can view the latest draft, trying to tell you where to go to view the latest draft of the fiscal year 25 proposed budget. On the city's website. Then down below, there's as the city manager saying, the short survey that we had on the budget priorities for the city's community engagement web site called Connect Tarpon Springs and the link for that, as the city manager was saying, I think we started the survey almost a month ago, and I also provided the results of it through June 9th on your De-esser, getting it just more on the, on the city charter that were the requirements were put in there. The first one, section eight E was the conduct a public hearing at the beginning of each budget cycle, no later than June 30th. And also section eight. I was to review and update every three fiscal years beginning October first, 2023. A citywide strategic plan and how it incorporates with with the budget and the strategic plan consisted of the mission statement, the vision and the core values. And one of the core values was the fiscal accountability. And that's where the budget came into play there. And down on the bottom there, we've highlighted the section of that, fiscal accountability, the strategic plan goal f two, objective one, which was to utilize the strategic plan as a tool to prioritize budgeting. Annual and long range capital expenditures just to go over the budget process. To date, we've been working already for about four months now, departments entered their budget requests. All the funds have been balanced. The general fund was balanced with no use of unassigned fund balance. That's the unrestrict money reserves in the general fund budget Advisory Committee has met with all the departments. They just completed their last meeting last week. Just a timetable on the budget process, June 11th. Tonight, the first, this budget public hearing, the first budget workshop with the board was scheduled for July 9th, the second one for July 30th, and if necessary, another one on August 8th, September 4th is scheduled for the first public hearing approving the tentative millage rate and the tentative budget. And in September 18th, we're scheduled for the second and final public hearing on the millage rate and budget. Just where the budget stands right now. It's early in the process, but just to show you, we've got the budget about a little 85, almost 86 million, the largest revenue source. This is a revenues by type, the largest revenues at 45.2, being charges for services, which is mostly your enterprise funds, your water and sewer, storm water, sanitation, and then taxes at 28.7. And just a little summary of the expenditures of that 85 million. Expenditures by type, the largest category is physical environment at 39.9, which again is the enterprise funds with, say, water and sewer sanitation, stormwater, coming in number two is public safety at 28.7. And that is my brief presentation. If you have any questions, I'm happy to answer them. Let me let me just say that I'm really, really happy and pleased that the very first part of your presentation, and that's the one thing that I get worried about the most, the, where priority should be coming from. For the commission, the strategic plan, the comp plan update, those were all based with large numbers of community meetings, both positive and ones that didn't work out so well. There was a lot of, comments that made just the opposite. But but that's what we should be using. We should be using a plan rather than devising what priorities are the a commission, developing what priorities are each year? Those have already been done in the strategic plan and the comp plan update. So we're going to hear public comments tonight, and then just remember they also have to be consistent with the strategic plan and the comp plan as well. And I suspect most of the ones I saw in the connect Tarpon Springs are just that. So, let me see if there's any other commissioners that would like to say anything. Okay, public comment, let me make sure I've got this public comments. Any public comments, miss Taylor? Katie Taylor, 1991 Douglas Lane, Tarpon Springs, just here to see if the, splash park is going to be in the budget. So that's why I'm here to see if the water park is going to be a part of the budget for Dorset Park. I I think the best way to describe it is we're here to, to listen. As far as his recommendations go, this is the first cut of the budget. I think that there's a number of, projects, capital improvements that you'll see that, funding is requested for those. There's, and then also at the list that there's a list of capital improvements where funding was requested, but were not funded. And so we're here to take your ideas on board and then discuss those as we go through the process. Yes. So, you're interest is in in a splash park for the, Dorset Park area, is that correct? Right, and a lot of parents was up there as well. They, they they all think it's a great idea to have such a facility at the park because there's a lot of kids go there after after school when they get out of the school next door, they go there. So it's, it would be a behoove a benefit for the kids. Besides the splash park. Is there anything else that you'd like to splash? Park is my main objective, right now. I just want to remind Miss Taylor my, my, what I would put in before that. And I've told her and give her my timeline is the is the reconstruct and possible reconstruction or re renovating of the concession stand that is before in my list of priorities, the splash park. But that's just that's just me. So I just want to remind her that that my first thing, budget wise, I think the splash park was 2 or 3, but my priority is the renovation of new kitchen facilities and renovation of that building. But again, that's just that's just me. I just want to remind her, everything is open and the process of what goes first is open. I just want to remind her that would be. That would be my recommendation. The first of the Dorset Park improvements. Yeah. I'm hoping also we'll see some cops and kids. Youth center recommendations. You're it's going to be at the next meeting. You're going to see the next steps at the at the 18th meeting, which is important to tell everybody. Miss Taylor, they'll be bringing forward to what our next step is, on the cops and kids center and the general outline of where everything's going to be, which might dictate where the splash park or something, you know, where it's going to be. So that's going to be the 18th to let everybody know, okay? Because there's a lot of room in the back. Near the end and near the back over there for the splash park. And my only concern about it going on cops and kids property is that the public kids won't be able to know, not know. I'm talking about the new center . Oh, yeah. For the new cops and kids center. But yeah, still, Dorset Park is still Dorset Park. But you'll see the whole outline of the whole Dorset Park in the field. And you, you'll see there's a good map presentation on that for the 18th to look at. And that may be a consideration of where we want the park. So make sure everybody comes to that one because that's an important meeting. The 18th okay. Thank you. Thank you Miss Taylor, Miss Francis. Thank you. Georgiana Francis, 15 Athens Street, so first, I'd like to address, the connect tarpon, in theory, I think it's a great idea, in practice, it is not so great, the screenshot. I just went to it as we discussed. I thought maybe there'd been a new update, but I did get the email, and I'd like to share this email that everyone's so disappointed that nobody responded to two questions on this email. Please provide your ideas and priorities for the city of Tarpon fiscal year 2025 budget. That's it. No options. You can't pick and choose. That's it. So I mean, what are we supposed to go off of? We're just residents. Okay number two is even better. Please tell us your relationship to Tarpon Springs. And in parentheses, these are the options. Resident business owner, visitor, community organization, etc. Property owner is not listed. So somehow now a business owner and visitor and community organization gets it gets listed in these people that have a say in our cities budget. Okay. So and I submitted my responses I but then I went to go edit it. I couldn't submit it. I didn't even get a response of what I submitted. Usually when you submit a vote you get like a response back or anything you submit. You get your reply. I can't even I didn't screenshot what I wrote, it was submitted before I could. Like I went to go back to edit something and I must have hit the wrong button. It was gone. But I do remember what I said and it was prioritize our priorities. We need to prioritize our prioritizations we don't. We have 40 projects ongoing that is insane. That is the problem with the budget. And I will say we didn't get to comment on your comment. The prioritize, prioritize is the priorities. That was my comment and that was anonymous. Now I know who you were. That was me. And I think that that's the truth, is that that's the biggest problem is that we got too many projects going. So and that's not and, you know, a knock on anyone in particular, we address this in my P and Z at our PNC meeting. And we talked to Renee about it. And I think this should be for every advisory board is that we should all have a say in what goes on to connect Tarpon, because that's why it's not useful is because the people making the questions, well, I don't know who they are, but if the board can make the questions and then at least then they can be useful that way, because I watched the budget advisory board meetings and they're really they bring like it makes oh my god. Like I didn't realize what our benefits were. I didn't realize that at all. I didn't know benefits. People got those types of benefits anymore. So again, but of all these people that and I know, Commissioner Collins has raised this before about people wanting to be on boards, especially the budget Advisory committee, because people complain a lot about not listening to the Planning and Zoning Board, but the Budget Advisory Committee, like, they don't even they're like quieter voices that want to quit. And people don't even hear about that, but they ask very good questions in those meetings, but they're just like, no one listens to their advice or their questions. They have good questions. If they could help create these questions. There's there are private business owners on there that are very intelligent, that can bring a lot to, you know, our city. So if they can help, if all of our advisory, including the sustainability committee, and I think that they would be another great source if you're going to like, have any committee take over the connect Tarpon, it might be them because what their whole focus is community outreach and bringing the community together, which is a very difficult thing. You can't really legislate, bring people together, but if they are in charge of at least maybe connect tarpon and maybe some type of like a go between between connect tarpon and every advisory committee. Sorry, I'm doing my time, but no, that's okay. I have a question for you, on the prioritize the priorities, can you just kind of talk about that a little bit? I mean, I saw that and I, I think I understood what you were saying, so I think, like, as far as the Bayshore project went, I went through a lot of that, and I tried to figure out what happened there. And I, I still don't know, I think I think it's an unfortunate situation. I think the city did the best thing. I think even if they had been noticed more in advance, I think the outcome would have been the same. So I really don't know how to fix that. But but I do know that I went back and I look and every month there's an update on that 40 project list that Mr. Robertson puts out. Right. And it's extremely hard to follow. And it's like it goes from like 10% to 100% to 0. It's extremely hard to understand what's going on. And it's too many projects. And I think at one point Miss Vincent told our planning and Zoning Board, and Miss Kardash was on the board at the time that actually the Budget Advisory Committee can work with the planning and zoning to kind of go over, not necessarily capital projects, but to prioritize projects and that they are allowed to work together. I haven't I don't know if that happened, apparently. You know, I understand. I appreciate that because we don't get a whole lot of feedback concerning that. I mean, we just have a list of projects, you know, and we don't have as far as their priorities, they are what they are. And I think the priorities are the Board of Commissioners priorities. And I think that desensitizes the staff and so the staff, and I think if you watched the charter committee meetings, I know Commissioner Dinato does, and a lot of this is like, well, it's a lot of, well, how do we make them do what they say they're going to do? And it just keeps rolling over. So with the election process, I'm kind of for it. If it's laid out longer because the staff is like, well, why should I work on this project so hard when I know the next two guys coming in are going to be pro this, right? I'm not going to say what that is, but pro whatever, these people aren't. So I'm not going to work on this flooding project for the docks because these people are going to worry about development. And so this goes down the drain because you need to get that funding in by a certain time. So it goes in the trash and nothing it just keeps funneling and just cycling and cycling and cycling. So it's better, I think, to actually have the election process, I guess broader, so that the staff is more enthused to be committed to a project without being like, oh, well, the new commissioner or the new mayor that comes in is because I know what he wants, and if he wins, I'm not going to put my staff through all this trouble because as soon as this guy comes in, he's just going to squash that. Okay, so that was just kind of my point is just trying to you can't legislate obviously your projects, but I think the capital projects you can do is one thought that I have, and that's tying those list of 40s to the strategic plan to see where they fit in, in the overall priorities, and that automatically, because we do prioritize the things that are important to the residents. Like this is their number one choice, two, three, four. And we can actually take that list of emphasis on priorities and match them to what the 40 projects are that you're talking about. Well, 40 is a lot still. But the other thing. Yeah, and if I just have just like 30s was that the strategic plan, comprehensive plan, the sustainability plan, it's a lot of plans for a lot of people to not understand what each of those things are. I'm still having my dad and I. We still discuss the comprehensive plan. I'm like, it's comprehensive. It just means everything. But it's not that simple. So I think when we reach out to the public, it has to be like more just simple language, like, how do you, you know, what do you think will best sustain the community less, you know, how do you want our parks to look? If it's a Parks and Rec thing? Not like this is the Parks and Rec master plan. Community workshop like that doesn't really engage people. So that was kind of my comments. No, those are good ideas. I think we can make some improvements. Not I think I know we can always make improvements too. And a lot of the applicants that I looked at, about 2 or 3 have some in, a lot of redevelopment. And, somebody had some Parks and rec experience in there too. Okay. Thank you. Thank you all right, let's go to, Mr. Jumper there. Any remote access? Comments. Public comment. Please raise your hand and you'll be allowed in to talk. And we do not have any raised hands. Okay, miss Jacobs, we have a couple of emails that came in. I do. The first one is from Tanya Goldman, nine, five, eight Bayshore Drive as impact as an impacted resident of Bayshore Drive, faced with expenses and other municipality fees have covered, I respectfully request that budgets be set to cover the installation and maintenance of a fully functional sewer system. My household will bear the new cost of water and sewer after all, this should be afforded to all those in a similar situation . The second one is from Lucy Ann Robinson. Hang on. Is there any is there any comments from the Commission concerning that or. No. Go ahead, Mr. Jacobs, the second one is from Lucy Anne Robinson. 948 Bayshore Drive. Thank you for implementing this new way for residents to participate in the budget process. I'm requesting that you include in the budget a commitment to own, install and maintain the entire low pressure sewer system on Bayshore Drive, including those pumps and elements that have been designed to be residents responsibility. This is not just my harebrained idea, but the recommendation of the EPA on its wastewater technology fact sheet, and I quote page six. Generally, it is in the best interest of the municipality be responsible for maintaining all system components. It is clear that city governments is that city. It is clear that city government is committed to the sewer type, fully owning that commitment through complete and adequate funding is the next step. The water and sewer fund, I suppose, is the right glance, but I do not pretend to grasp all its revenue sources. It does seem to fund a good chunk of city government activity from sustainability to program administration. Further guidance from the EPA Fact Sheet, page five. Routine operations and maintenance requirements for step and GP systems are minimal. Small systems 300 or fewer homes do not usually require full time staff. Service can be performed by public works. Note that the Bayshore Project has fewer than 100 homes. I am confident that once you decide to include this item in this and future budgets, the Able finance staff will figure out a way to fund it as an accepted normal part of city operations. Temporary spot grants won't solve this issue. My thanks. Those are the only two I have. That's it, and Mr. Rocklin, Robert Rocklin sent an email in to everybody, his recommendation was, streets, roads and then bicyclist safety and, which I think is consistent with what, several of the people had, listed in the connect Tarpon Springs, comments. And, let's go to commission, vice mayor I'm sorry, vice Mayor Coleus, is that you? I mean, right now. That's right. Okay. Well I I've still got you as commissioner on the light, but I just want to make sure the seat was correct. Go ahead. So So I think it's important for the public to understand that, when these capital improvement projects come for us, there is a list of roads that need to be taken care of. And staff are the ones who drive the priorities for those projects. I mean, when they come in front of us, there may be the top 4 or 5 that are going to get addressed for the year, and we may have the ability to pull one out or pull one in, but it's I don't think this commission has veered off from what some of the capital improvement projects that have been set these last 2 or 3 years. I know there is. When we first got in, we made some changes to the comprehensive plan. When it come to some building issues. And one thing I know, we put a stop to was, the gateway entrance sign to the sponge docks. But, a lot of everything that we've been, scheduling has been scheduled by staff by prioritizing. And, our limitations are really about, bringing up one project or not, but it's very similar. It's very high up in the priority when we do try to bring up a project. So, I just wanted to get that clear. And, just get that understood for everyone. Thank you. Thank you. Is there anyone else, Commissioner, I had my light on. Pardon me? I had my light on. You did? Yes Oh, okay. Okay. How you do it? Thank you. Okay. So I'm going to call out Miss Katie Taylor. Hi, Katie, Katie originally came up and spoke to me about, a number of issues that were going on in the city, and my comment to her was, you can't show up for dessert and complain about the appetizer and the main meal, and I want to congratulate you for coming for the appetizer and the main meal, because she's doing exactly what the perfect resident should be doing. Come here as, Miss Francis as well. Share your opinions. It's unfortunate that there were only, of 88% of the people that voted for this referendum. We got only six comments, and, you know, I know it was a very bad day today, but I would have loved to hear, I was looking forward to having a full audience of people giving us input on what's important to them so we could make a selection, I always find it difficult to take blame unless, you know, if we're not informed of something and when we're left to make the decision and then it was the wrong decision or it wasn't the decision somebody else wants. With that, I agree with, Vice Mayor, my pronunciation was sorry about that, because there were, as we hear, things which is the only time that we're really going to bring it up to, staff. Otherwise, staff has their once a week meetings with the city manager, and that's how the procedure gets done. And then the list of priorities come to us. Unless one of us or all of us bring up to the city manager, something that that that residents bring up to us, and that's how this whole procedure goes back and forth. And I don't know, if changing, the questions, as Miss Francis says, is going to change. I watched all the, charter commission meetings, and in the Charter Commission, they were figuring out ways to get people to join, volunteer boards. And, you know, so far, I haven't seen anything that really is going to hold, hold nails, the same thing is with getting people to come here and to give their opinions. How are they going to get involved, one of the comments is, the chief made today was that the people, that. Sorry, it was yesterday. I saw it today, some of the people that are coming up, some of the younger people are have a different venue and a different idea than the older folks there. They want to do their 9 to 5 and they want to you know, not have any overtime and things like that, this city takes a full fledged it takes a community to run a city, and we need input from, the people, that that we that our residents, our residents should be giving us dates. And I know we all get them, but, you know, he'll get one. I'll get one here, or I'll get 2 or 3. But we're not really getting a good cross-section of what's the 88? That said, they want to put their $0.02 into the budget. And I don't know, you can't force you can't legislate, people to force them to come in and say, you must step up to the plate and, and make your, your knowledge known. What do you want done? And of course, then you have to explain to them how it falls into the comp plan. So I read these, surveys, the responses that were in there. I mean, I could agree, two questions are not going to really, you know, change what we're thinking. But I don't know if five questions would have changed it. I don't know if seven questions would have changed anything of what we're thinking. You know, these are just broad based, broad brushed type things. Yeah. I want to see better flooding or I want to see less flooding or, I do think we need more, response from the people I just don't know how to get it. And I don't know if sending out, letters. I mean, everybody made a comment that we got, that postcard for the comp plan, and I know Vice mayor was at that comp plan, on Saturday, and I was at that comp plan on Saturday, and he'll sit there and tell you, I don't think we had five people there. And am I correct? There were like 4 or 5 people there, right. And I just I don't know why. You know, it's like at the end of this, I'm looking at this saying, I don't want to be insulting, but it's like, you can't you can't not show up and not get involved. And then all of a sudden at the end, just go, well, what happened? Nobody told us. Well, you kind of have to get somewhat involved and show that you care, because as you know, they say nobody is going to take care of you but you. And if you don't get yourself involved or say what's on your mind, I mean, I don't even mind if I'm going to a forward Pinellas meeting and someone says to me, hey, when you're there, could you speak about this? And this just came about and I just did that. You know, if you're at a so and so meeting, could you speak about this, you know, that's what we need. We need more input from the people, from the residents. And I think things would be smoother. And in answer to you, Miss Francis, I'm happy to walk you through, since I think I was voted as the auxiliary liaison. What happened on that? And, you know, there's a lot of misnomers out there just to tell you. So just to let you know, go ahead. Thank you. That's it. That's what I had to say. Commissioner Koulianos. Yeah, I've got some comments, but I'm gonna wait till mine. Go ahead. All right. I'm. I'm not. I didn't plan to comment on, Commissioner Eisner's comments, but, you know, sometimes people communicate in these formalities that we set up and sometimes they communicate with us, as in the community. Right? So when you're at a coffee shop and somebody walks up and says, hey, this is what matters to me, you know, I, I tend to ask people when I meet them what matters to them. And I get a sense and, and that's, you know, before technology, that's how we found out stuff. Not everybody comes here and walks up to that podium and wants to speak in public. But anyways, that's that wasn't what I want to talk about, the, I've spoke to Ron Herring about this. What's what's what people don't understand. And I'm not sure I understand. It is when we look at these different, expenditures types and, you know, whether it's under transportation, public safety, this and that, whatever these, these parts of the pie are what I need to know is how much of that is discretionary. So when, citizens do tell us they want a splash park where or where's that money coming from? And so when, when and I've actually offered I'll definitely be popping in your office, is we you know how much I would want to know how much of the budget is set, payroll, you know, facility maintenance, the stuff we have to spend money on. And what are we actually playing with? You know, what do we have in that budget that's discretionary. Where we can make a call and, like the vice mayor said, there's some of these things are already set. And they would go in the Nondiscretionary column unless we want to pull them out. But normally they'd be in the nondiscretionary because those are in, capital improvements that we've already put into, into the process. Right. So when we're looking, for example, you know, we're we're I'm going to I'm jumping ahead to, the possibility of buying a piece of property out on Anclote Road, right at and it most likely would have to finance that. And it would be, you know, half $1 million a year in, in, in, in, in, debt service. Where's that coming from? You know, and how much in our budget is the discretionary amount that we know we can that we actually have some say in what we play with because most of this budget is already like locked in, you know, we're not we if we make a overall decision where, you know, we're not cutting staff. So that means staff is there. Now there may be some play in there when it comes to we've budgeted for a hundred people, but right now we've only got 85 employed. And, we could be you know, we may have some play there, but I just want to know, how much do we have to play with, how much is discretionary. So when a citizen comes up and says, I want a splash park, you know, where would we get that those funds from? And sometimes this budget, you know, I went to one of the budget meetings. This is just an observational thing. And I went to one of the budget meetings and, Miss Howard made a comment about it, and she goes, you know, I she said something about what? How we determine spending. Like you know, in government, you know, you come forward and you say, okay, we spent this much last year and we're, we think it's going to be a 3% increase. Therefore, we're asking for this much. And she was asking, well, you know, what's that spent on. And she actually was like, I hope you know that I'm, I don't sound stupid. And I said, no, you're not stupid at all. She was because in private business we do that. Right. We might start with a clean piece of paper. What do we need? But in government we don't necessarily do that in government. It's always a build on of something we've spent in the past, and I'm not I'm not making a commentary on on whether that's right or wrong. But what we don't and I don't think even this is my second time in the budget process. And now I just need to get a handle on what do we have, what is discretionary, what do we have, how much funds do we get to actually make decisions on that aren't already locked in payrolls locked in facility costs, are locked in these capital projects that already been approved and working on. They're already locked in. So again, when a citizen comes up and says, hey, I like this, do we even have that play? I don't know, and that's why I think that when as we go through this budget process, I'm going to I'm going to work with, Director Herring on trying to identify what that discretionary funds are so that we can make decisions about if we're going to buy a piece of property and there's going to be a debt service on it, where's it getting paid from? And do we have the funds and what is it and what are. Because every time we make a decision to spend money, it's a priority decision. Right It's we can do this, but we can't do that. And we don't always know what it is we can't do. We just you know, we've and we've had, you know, the last couple boards have, you know, had a, they had big increases in, you know, appraised values of properties. So they got a big increase in the budgets. They also had $16 million of money that came down from the government. So they had, you know, they had a lot more discretionary things. We don't have that much. I don't and I don't think we do. But I don't know that unless I can have a sense of that. So I'm, I want to get a sense of that from, from, director, herring on. You know, how much of that is our discretionary money? Let me so I hope I don't sound no, but this is what's going on in my head. I think there's a simple answer. Mr. herring, can you put that pipe? You've got the pie chart there, right? It's not that. It's not correct. These are all, recurring, sorry. Recurring costs. Are there any capital projects mixed? Mixed in with this pie, yes. There's about $15 million worth of capital projects. Of that 85 million. But those are those encumbered are are they proposed? Proposed. Okay. So those would be brand new budgets. Correct? Okay. That's your discretionary. Yeah. And you can go back in. You can you can you know, those are things that are based on, needs that have been identified or else they wouldn't be there. But that's the discretionary and, and then the other stuff that is recurring is basically fixed unless you start wanting to cut employees and, and cut into this, you know, or crystal ball in terms of insurance cost, increase in things of that nature. Those are the hedges, the, the, the salary increase increases adjustments, raises those things are all in there. So, I think the only way you're going to do that is to actually sit down with, Mr. Herring, I think right now we're it's extremely premature. Other than, you know, it's just coming out of the staff right now. No, no, I'm I'm not saying it had to be done today. I think as we move forward and go and get to the final process, I think we need to be able to communicate with the with the residents that here's what we have to play with. And we've made these priority decisions like you say, some of them are already in this strategic plan. They're in the comp plan. Those are things we we've had agreed to. But as part of that, it's as I mentioned to Miss Taylor, I can't tell you how many projects are proposed or on the books to be completed, but there's a whole lot that are non funded that are very close to being just as important. Right. And I think, and some of those are ones that have come from residences in a more, implied manner, not anything explicit through comments. That you taught. But for example, the meeting we had last year would we have 30 or 40 people in here because of pickleball courts? Right. Well, we were able to implement the pickleball courts, and that's the squeaky wheel gets the oil in that particular case. But that's also consistent with the strategic plan in terms of the, the, the, the, the hometown or whatever you want to call it, the, recreational, the, the, the feeling for the city. In other words, having a, a feeling for the city of, of, recreation and walking and things like that. That's very high in the strategic plan if you if you look at it. So the answer your question is the, the, the discretionary in this pie chart is about $15 million, you'll see that in all of our general fund, no, non enterprise fund. It's pretty much non discretionary. Until we get into the there are some minor capital like the old days 25 years ago it used to be typewriters. Today it's computers. So new laptop and stuff like that. That but that's usually something that has been asked for. I'm going to let you talk. That's something that's been asked for 3 or 4 years to before it actually gets in the budget. Go ahead. Yeah. All the department heads will tell you that, that. Oh, you're getting these. Yeah. The city manager's cut it the first two years because of the bomb. Finally get in the third year, it, they're in a process for many years getting to that point. It's just, again, by priorities and stuff. I know we're going to get to the point where you go and do your your, you when you go back to all the departments, say, hey, find 3% and get us and get us down into a livable spot. I know we haven't got to that point yet, but, I'm just again, as we move through this process, it's important that we be able to identify and be able to communicate with the with the residents where the discretionary money is because like the vice mayor said, if we've got all these things locked up, then what are we actually playing with? When a citizen says, hey, I want a splash park? Well you remember, but remember last year we came up with $40 million of $50 million worth of projects? Remember that? I know, and you were concerned about borrowing money and not borrowing money. And my point is, there is no shortage of things that need to be done in terms of flooding. I'm not talking about, recreation things. I'm just talking about basic things in just to give you my thoughts, I'm going to be gone in in nine months, but I predict in 10 or 15 years if we don't solve the flooding down at the sponge docks, that whole economy down there is going to be shot. Because right now we have flooding two or 3 or 4 times a month, and people are paying good money to rent buildings down there. If that jumps up to a good week or so, then basically they're paying a whole lot of money for, you know, something that they can't actually we can't even predict when they have to be open or closed. And so we need to solve those. Those are high priorities . And, and a lot of these other things. And, but on the other hand, a lot of them are all enterprise fund driven too. So that's that's the whole point, so I agree with you. And it's a learning experience and, and, and, you know, I don't know, you're going to have to deal with, you know, kind of coming up with not coming up with kind of, educating everybody. And again, it's real important before July ninth that all of you that's got questions like this to sit down with Ron and get all that so we can really hit the hit the ball running on the ninth and have all those answers and then get to the hard part of setting that final budget. So Ron is open from now until the first budget, you know, meet with him and, in the, the, the one poison pill of every budget for municipality is recurring cost. When you put a capital project online, like a splash park or anything else like that, there's a recurring cost to maintain that that automatically jacks up your need for your your general fund. A lot of people don't make that connection they need to. And so like, for example, the, the four pickleball courts that we put online, we're, we're putting them in. But that doesn't mean they're not going to cost taxpayers anything. Once we go forward, there's going to be a cost of maintaining those as well. I'm talking about cleaning and sweeping and mowing and all that other stuff. So anyway, did you have anything else? I wanted to go to something, Commissioner Williams, you have anything else? I wanted to go to some of the other commissioners that got comments. Okay, let me go back to, vice mayor. You had something else you wanted to say? I just wanted to follow up. But from what I remember, our, the first budget we had there was, there was about $600,000 left over for us to, you know, make some decisions. We helped transfer that back to the employees, to help get the raises up and their their wages up. And I believe last year, there were somewhere similar about five, $600,000 left over. We ended up hiring a few police officers, we made some, hiring decisions for the building department, and I can't remember what was left with a little bit of the other money, but, see, I, I know that the capital improvement projects are discretionary. We can move them around, but they're they are sort of set where the funds are going to be paid towards those projects. And our margin to make some elaborate changes at all or add something in, is really stuck between that. You know, I don't want to put no numbers this year because I don't know, we'll come up here, but it's going to be somewhere similar to what we had the last two years, you know, 4 to 600,000 somewhere around there. It's not that much for us to really work with. Once Ron gets what the other departments and, and really finalize his the budget to, to get everything matched up. Thank you. Okay, Commissioner Eisner, so I wanted to follow up because there was a couple of things said, when I first became a commissioner, I asked that exact same question that you just asked Commissioner Koulianos and I got back. And this is not to offend Ron, but I got the comment that there really is no discretionary fund. Everything is accounted for, it's when you want to place something on a, a wish list, you've got to take it from some place else. And that's what I learned. And, and as you get this budget sheet that what you normally comes out, we are like borrowing money into year 25, 26, 27. You know, I have people that come up to me and will tell me, well, we could just do that. Take that from the penny fund. And I'm like, oh, okay. The penny fund is spoken for the next 4 or 5 years. Ron, what about two? Two? Okay. But you know, once you get through all of the known payments that you have to make and then, the other thing is, you know, what I was going to ask was we should know how much a splash park is in the first place. That's, you know, that that would be ground one to find out whether it's even a feasible thing. But, there is no discretionary funds that I know of. I know that when we need to do a project that comes up and it's serious, I know that, our city manager will sit there and turn to Ron and say to Ron, pull something out of your magic box, and you know, and try to find the money for this, and, you know, but it is it's borrowing from Peter to pay Paul because it's taken priority. That's really what it is. It's not discretionary. It's what's what's a priority, so that's that's what I wanted to say. The other thing, I also wanted you to know, I do drive around and I get everywhere, and I ask everybody their input. I don't even tell them who I am. I ask their input. So I do get around as well. I just would like to see a heavier influx of comments so that we have more things that we strategically can think about. That's mainly what it is. But I agree with you on on all that you've been saying, the more input we get, the better, you know, the more consensus, the more we can do. So that's pretty much it. Okay. I'm sorry, Commissioner, I don't want to echo what's already been said, but I certainly understand , Commissioner, what you're saying, and I understand what you're saying, Commissioner Eisner. There's not as much as you think, most of it is, at least in my experience, is positions that are budgeted but are not filled. That's one primary, area. But I learned something the very first week I was in office back in 91. And anyway, I asked about a project that the city had actually purchased land to commit to, expanding the Little League fields at Sisler. The city, I think, was eight, 8 or 12 years. Surprising number of years, they said on that property and didn't do anything. And when I got into office, I sat down with the city manager at the time, which we all do when we come into office. And he asked me what some of my priorities were, and I, I mentioned the expansion of the Little League fields, and he told me, said, we can't do that because it's not in the budget. And he was 100% correct. So I learned right away that if you want something done, you need to get it into the budget. That's the first thing we need to do. So if we want to talk about a splash park, Miss Taylor, we need to find a way to get that in the budget. Or at least plan when we're going to move it forward. And mayor, that's that's where you're coming from. And miss Francis, the priority we do need always to look at our priorities. We need to look at our capital improvement projects and look at that and decide we may want to change the order. We need to look at the comprehensive plan. We need to look at our strategic plan and do all of that. And as we do that and hear your comments as we use that and prioritize it, it makes it easier to plan ahead to budget. So that's what I'd like to see us to continue to work towards. But we need to not surmise across the T's in some of these areas, and primarily in those three things, the capital improvement projects, the Comprehensive plan and the strategic plan. If we can, maybe we need some workshops on that, I don't know how many you've already had on that, but that's where that comes from, primarily , but I commend staff. I have all the respect for them. And if I'm here to say if you want something, it needs to be budgeted or just not going to happen, the. Thank you. That's basically, let me pick up on that. That's what I was saying. And Commissioner DiDonato echoes that. And then also, up until last year, we spent an awful lot of time on creating the strategic plan and updating the comp plan. And I know that, there was a little disappointment with the comp plan update, public meeting we had. I'd gotten a call from one of the businessmen and asked me to explain to him what was going to change to affect him. And my point to him was that, the comp plan is basically the update is a reality check. It's Tarp and the way it is right now. And the only thing that so whatever you own in terms of property, it's fine where you get out of the priority is when you start asking for a density increase, not so much that it's needed for the city, but it's needed for you as far as maximizing your profit on it. And I said, I don't know that that's going to be that easy in the future just because of the way the comp plan update was written, that we've got sufficient land and, for our, growth of the city and we don't need to, look at density increases to make up any shortfalls for it. He understood that. And getting back to I think that, one of the reasons why I think that residents, are the majority of residents, the ones I know, the ones that are somewhat quiet individuals, the silent majority, the ones that enjoy their lives, they love their families. They go to churches on Sunday, they're just a quiet group of people. I see them all the time, and there are a lot more at rest right now. There are a lot more peaceful because they've gotten some idea based on what the commission has done. And I'm not taking, it's not an issue of credit for me. It's an issue of something that needed to be done because they're concerned. Their biggest concern was they didn't know where the city was heading. I mean, we would see these kind of projects being thrown on the table, like, where is this coming from, this sort of thing. Well, now when we talk about projects, we can actually tie it in to the strategic plan and give them an idea of, you know, well, you know, this isn't this is a priority that went through all this discussion and workshops and things, if it was facilitate the comp plan, update the whole thing. So I think that there's a little bit of a quiet attitude right now that people are somewhat, I'm not going to say, happy, but they seem to be content right now. And, and I think that, we can always get their, their opinion on where they feel that their priorities ought to be. But I think that, you know, they've already told us that, and it's in the form of the strategic plan and the comp plan, and I think that the priorities I agree with Miss Francis, and not so much that the one point that I think was mixed, that those list of 40 projects were for the Commission's purpose, because we kept complaining to him, where's the status on this? We don't see it anywhere. That former commissioners used to tell him that all the time. And so we've created everything on there. It's not necessarily for the residents to we it's a tool for the commission because it's assumed that the commission already knows what that project is about. That's why you see that little information on it. But nevertheless, it ought to be tied to for us as well, to educate us where it's tied into the strategic plan or the comp plan, and whether it's, you know, one of those items up there that, in both of you are right, Commissioner Eisner's right. And Commissioner Koulianos is right. It's discretionary and it's not discretionary. It's discretionary as if the Commission could reprogram it that money to do something else. But they they better understand what the consequences are and what the ramifications are and how that affects the public. Before we do that, it's not discretionary in the sense that if you don't do anything that's safe and then you start looking at future funding and looking at it five years down the road and programing, funds for that, what was I the, the, I had a question concerning the Bayshore sewer. When did that project first begin? Well, it first began in 2019. That's when it began. The in the funding and planning pipeline five years ago. This thing that's being built today was play in five years ago. And so, you know, that's what I'm getting at, it's just too bad we can't print our own money like the federal government. Well, the other thing, the other problem solved. Well, no, the one thing I want to kind of, circle back to some of the emails that we got, the ones from Mrs. Goldman and, Miss, Robinson, I we're kind of like, at a disadvantage right now because of the attorneys, we don't have anyone on board, Mr. Salzman has. You know, he's very, very busy, but we need to get an attorney on. There's some what they're asking for is an is an extreme. First of all, I'm not so sure of what they're reading that the MP EPA suggesting is, is what is what they have in vision is what they have envisioned that the EPA is. In other words, the EPA says you should pick up the cost. But I'm not so sure that the EPA is talking about single resident grinder pumps. And then there's also some nuances, such as easements and a whole lot of other things and liabilities and other things that go along with that, that I think that as soon as we get an attorney on board, maybe he could create or she can create a joint paper just to go through that and do a little bit of focus to provide that form as well. I don't I can't do that. I know, Commissioner Eisner, you've been busy trying to help that, but I think that's out of, the expertise. Well, I could just tell you this, I have not heard where a city can go on to private property to service somebody's private property. They can't. But but they can. If there's an easement that's provided, which then you give up your. Right. Exactly. You can't do anything in your easement. And that's the nuance that I think everybody needs to understand. I think what EPA is talking about is like, a Mindy mini, lift station that's installed at a business that like a Marina, for example, I know one, I know a couple of marinas that have their own lift stations. They have they wash boats, they've got 200 boats installed. There's all kinds of activity going on there. They need a lift station that where all that water goes into, and then that lift station is pumped into the city sewer. That is, they maintain that. And there's been other instances where, subdivision development, such as, including Wells, had to build a lift station to get their project approved, and we wound up taking over the taking over the maintenance of that. But that was in public right of way. But they actually build it. And so there's a whole lot of news as to what you read that isn't explained. And it's simply not translates one for one. Anyway, that's what I wanted to say about those two. So we need to kind of think about that when we get, another attorney on board, Commissioner Collins, you've got your light on. Yeah on on the Bayshore thing. I, you know, I think we it's this is a perfect example of citizen, you know, citizens make expressing their concern. They came to city hall. They they, had their issues. We heard them. And, you know, we're going to do everything we can to try to, address the issue the best we can, like you say, those those things were a lot of these things were decided by boards before any of us were on up here on this dais. So and I think that we've done I think we've done a great job of, of, listening to them and trying to do the best we can going forward to figure out the best solutions we can. Again, we always have to be careful of. And that's why it's going to be important when we get our city attorney is we can't make unilateral decisions of one street that doesn't impact other decisions, because we have to be consistent. We can't, you know, do something for that uniquely for one street in the town that we can't afford to everybody else when those issues come up throughout the town. But you know, I was I was reading, and I'm glad that we found who the anonymous author of this was. You know, when we talked about Reprioritizing, what we need to prioritize prioritization. That's Miss Francine. I know it was her. She said it, but, when I first read it, I was laughing. I thought maybe, you know, the person just repeated the same word by accident, but, there's actually some strange brilliance to that because I think that is what our job is in the budgetary process. Right, is we're constantly reprioritizing our priorities. They're going to, you know, we're going to do it again this year. We're going to put all the stuff we have to spend now. There's going to be stuff that, because we have we have our hands tied a little bit when, when it comes to Arpa funds, right. That we have to have those spent by a certain date. So there's certain things that are going to make us have to move on on stuff. But but again, going back to my discretionary thing, that's, that's what I'm talking about is what she wrote here is we're going to have to identify why. And then again, the citizens know. So when we have to say if we do end up saying no to a splash park this year, it's we can illustrate why we can't address that this year. But it could be something that, like, Commissioner DiDonato says it could go on to a subsequent, budget. But again, the better that we illustrate this to the public, they understand that we're dealing with choices. We like the commissioner said, we can't print money. We have to live within our the dollars that we have available to us. And again, prioritizing the prioritization is the whole concept that we're doing up here. So anyway, I want to request, now that I'm thinking about it, I want to request, I don't know how you want to do it either. A separate agenda item, but it's going to take some time or a separate meeting on we talked about it, not just you and me, but we've talked about it as a commission. And your comment was, we better do it soon. And that's that sponge docks at the corner of Athens and Dodecanese. That's four point something million that we've got tied up with this project, and we haven't we, we've got that cost estimate on it right. Yes. There's one more thing imminent and again, hopefully it's within a month to get that on. Yes. That that's got to come on an agenda. We got to make a decision that we're just waiting for one one thing okay. And then that's coming on the next agenda. Because again, that's a big that's a big chunk of money. And honestly that's one intersection, four point something million dollars. And I'm going to tell you I was an engineer. I mean, we have our engineers do the best we can, but they don't. They're not underwriters, you know, they're not, the oracles at Delphi, they can't predict whether that thing is going to work 100. And again, as I mentioned to you before, we need to make we need to have a clear definition of what our objective is, if it's to prevent flooding down there. During a rainfall, it's, it's not needed if we have, if we have a just in general, if we have an objective to prevent flooding during a hurricane when the water is above our major storm, where the water is above the seawall, this isn't going to help it. The only situation this is going to help is when we have that perfect situation where there's raining and the tide is high to block the hydraulics, to prevent water from the street of draining into the into the into the river. This thing will be a check valve. And basically all the water will be pumped out over the top of the seawall or figurative speaking. That's what we're buying with this thing. Just that, just so you understand. So the concern is I understand it. I'm pretty sure you all understand it. But if the residents are down there that we're putting this bulletproof project, then they're don't understand it. There's going to be a lot of issues. They're going to have to be addressed as far as spending four point something million dollars just to take care of this one situation that's down there. And, and again, my suspicion is unless we do something a little more, aggressive, live in 10 or 15 years to address that seawall issue where it's coming over the seawall, it's not going to really matter whether that thing is down there or not. So anyway, we need to have something to have that just broad experience and maybe have the consultant in here that that that has designed it was it was it still the, the guys from the Dutch company or was it our own guy? Remember, we, no, no, we had our own guys do that. Okay? I mean, our own consultant, engineers. Okay. That's that's a priority to get on the agenda for you and to make for us to make a decision on Vice Mayor Coleus. No comment , no, no comment, no comment. You you have us switched again. It hasn't been okay. Do you have a comment? I do, but I'm not him. But. Okay, I just want to. I wanted to follow up. I got a call from another one of my neighbors who actually has a grinder pump and, but he didn't call me about that. He called me about something else, and I happened to just ask him what he. What he's run into because he's living there probably about 6 to 8 months longer than I am. So he said that he did have a failure similar to mine three years when he first had it put in, which just proved that the builder put in an inferior pump and he hasn't had any problems since then with the grinder pump that he put in. And I said, you know, I really want to thank you for letting me know that because I'll share that with the board. You know, like I said, these things, they, they work, you know, we just had a bad representation on how this was going to go down, I also spoke with a couple of plumbers and, you know, if you're taking an evaluation of one house on the block and not the entire neighborhood, it's very easy to sit there and say, oh, yeah, you know, gravity would work here for your house. It would. Yeah. But it would be sent to somebody else's house. And he's not saying that part. So that's the part that, you know, you have to understand. You know, you just can't have, have, you know, gravity and, and low pressure in the same place. I've also been to some people's homes on, on the street where they do realize now that it's been explained that there's no way possible that they could even get their gravity because their house is so much lower than the street. They would have to have a gravity a low pressure pump behind the pump to send it upstream up to the street. So, you know, I think in answer to what Miss Francis said, a lot of the people do know, they're more so now at the, at the crossroads of just trying to get some of the money paid rather than fighting the system, because they all mostly realize it's, it's the best system that you can have in a low lying area. So that's just my input. Okay Are there any other comments in general from any of the commissioners, city manager, of course. You got anything to close this up that Mr. Herring? Maybe or no. Again, we'll be. We'll we'll hopefully, get some more comments in, to have for you public comments from this. And then we'll look at this about making some changes at Connect Tarpon. We'll look at getting it out there. You'll take the recommendation. We'll take the recommendations. The thing is we did the exact same thing last year. And if you remember when we came to the board, we had those we had a whole we had 30 something responses. I don't know what the difference is from this year. Well, I think people are more content, but I think we can stimulate. We got we got time to bring before you to have that information for you. Get it out more. The changes that's been suggested, again, we just wanted to give them an opportunity. We want to ask a lot of questions. We wanted to give them an opportunity, say what you would have said here at the meeting. If you can't make the meeting, let the commission know. So we'll work on that for there. And again, any of you meet with Ron for your questions so we can hit the ball running on July 9th, everybody he's he's willing this next month to meet with you at any time, each of you. So set the appointment with him and, get whatever background you need. Let me ask, Ron, I have one question for you. If you can help me, getting back to this Athens and Dodecanese, what percentage of that money is, is Arpa fund money, do you offhand do you know, or for the, for the sponge docks pumping station? None Right. Well, we used it's in the penny fund right now. There's no money in the Arpa fund right now since it was going out. We're not concerned about that. No, because we took that out just for this very reason. We were concerned about the timeline, getting it done with the Arpa rules. And getting it spent. So I feel a little better about that. We switched it with the penny fund. Any other questions? Meeting adjourned at 741. Thank you everybody. First meeting as a vice. Even likely. Oh, see, I was gonna I was right. See that? See you. Good job. Ron.