##VIDEO ID:wU-bOuCnsFQ## That's what we go on cruises. I'm like, it's good, but it's not. So last year we went on a Royal Caribbean cruise and yeah, some of us just why not? Life is God's gift to humanity. I was like, that guy's burger joint down there. I was like, just give me a burger. People love that place. Okay. There's. You used to have, like, a late night kind. You have a little neck problem. You gotta go up. Love it. I now call to order the special session agenda for the Community Redevelopment Agency of the City of Tarpon Springs on Tuesday, January 7th, 2025 at 5:00 pm. City clerk roll call, please. Chair Julius here. Vice chair. Collins. Here. Commissioner Eisner. Here. Commissioner DiDonato. Here. Commissioner Banther. Here. Thank you. Item one on tonight's agenda is to approve RFP scope for branding. And we have a city manager who's going to go over it from here. Thank you, Mister chair. This item is the RFP for the branding that we spoke about. I think it was in December of the meeting, and I mentioned I'd bring back to you. I wanted you to see the scope in case there was any more input. You had to see what the deliverables deliverables would be, what the timeline was going to be, and so forth. And then if you're good with that, what you see, we'll proceed and issue the RFP tomorrow. But I wanted you to have one look at make sure you understood the scope of the project and what liberal deliverables would be before we proceed. Thank you. City Manager. Are there any public comments on this item? I see are there any zoom comments and we do not have anyone in attendance at this time? Okay. The chair will make a motion to approve RFP scope for branding. Motion to approve. Second. Is there any further comments or discussion? Roll call please. Commissioner. Painter. Yes. Commissioner DiDonato. Yes. Commissioner. Eisner. Yes, vice chair. Yes. Chair. Yes. Yes. Item two on tonight's agenda is. Approve scope of services and authorize the city manager to execute an agreement with Inspire Placemaking Collective for CRA downtown master plan update. And we have Miss Vincent, planning director and Miss Lemons for economic developer who are going to go over this item. Thank you. Karen Lemons, economic development manager. Today, the agenda item is to approve a scope of services and authorize the City Manager to execute an agreement with Inspire Placemaking Collective for the CRA Downtown Master Plan update. Now, this is one part of three different planning updates that we are pursuing, all under Inspire Placemaking tonight. This one is specific for the CRA agenda for the downtown CRA Master Plan update, and then the other two planning update projects you will see at the BoCC agenda. Those will be funded through the General Fund, through the Planning Department, and those require BOC approval. So the city intends to use Inspire Placemaking Collective to do the task of all three plans. And again, right now we're just talking about the CRA Master Plan update. Inspire was one of the city's prequalified planning consultants that was approved back in September through the RFP process, and they had demonstrated a extensive experience and expertise in the field of redevelopment and planning, and have done quite a few CRA master plans from creation and updates as well. Our master plan update, which we call our CRA plan, was originally completed in 2001, so it's almost 25 years old. It does serve as the guide and work plan for the CRA and all the activities that we do. The document has had only very minor revisions since it was originally adopted. There were some projects that were completed. There were some projects that were not completed. Others were not completed because they were no longer viable. And so we need to do a major update to it. It doesn't even reflect the special area plan that was adopted back in 2011. Another reason we are looking to do the master plan update is we, our current TIF expires in 2031. So while it seems it's a ways out, one of the requirements to ask for an extension is to have an updated master plan. So this would be one of the first steps that we'll be taking in order to even request an extension from Pinellas County. I know we've had some discussions about an extension, and I believe we all are on the same page that we'd like to extend it. We could get up to another ten years from the CRA. So the scope of services is attached in all of your backup. Essentially, there are six tasks kickoff and data collection. There's an extensive market analysis. We're also including parking garage and a parking assessment. Given discussions that we've been having about potentially a future parking garage, we feel it's feasible that we do a study to show what the parking needs are a conditions and data analysis. An extensive and robust public engagement campaign. And staff will be doing most of the stakeholder focus groups for the public engagement campaign. And then the plan itself, and then the presentation will be finally finalized to the CRA board and also be shared with our Planning and Zoning Board for their review. The cost of this as as you can see on the attached is 127,000. And that would be funded through the CRA. Updating a master plan is an eligible activity of the CRA funds. So with that I'll be able to answer any questions. And we also have Laura Canary from Inspire Placemaking here as well. If you have questions on the process itself. Thank you Miss Lemons. Are there any public comments on this item? Good evening. I'm Cindy Trapani, 22 North Spring Boulevard, Tarpon Springs, Florida. And I think it's a great idea that you're updating the CRA plan, as Miss Lemons mentioned. I didn't realize myself that it's quite that old, but when I look through it before the holidays, I realize there's quite a few things in there that have either been done or may not be appropriate anymore, for whatever reason. And there's a lot of new issues that you guys would like to address, I think. I mean, 20 years is a long time, so it's time to take a look at it and see what needs to be fixed. When the first special area plan was done, I know, I understand this is all part of the same effort, so my comments are related to both the CRA plan update and the Special Area Plan update. When the Special Area plan and the smart code were done, there was a focus group that was established of stakeholders and it was over 40 people. Each commissioner appointed so many people, I don't know, 3 or 4 or something. And then what I thought was really clever is one member from each of the city boards was also on that focus group. So you got the background from the Planning Board. Planning Commission. You got the background from the Preservation Board, from Budget Advisory Board. So I would suggest and really encourage that we need to have a meaningful public involvement process, not one where the draft is delivered to the public or to these groups to talk about when it's been done, but to brainstorm at the beginning of the process about what needs to be done, as I said, what's what's just not relevant anymore, what's new stuff we need to look at and things that we can build on in the new plan. So I would I think you could probably use the same group for all of these documents, the CRA plan, the special area plan, and the and the code update for a variety of reasons that we've just talked about. Another really important reason, as you know, is the hundred and $27,000 for this is being paid for by the CRA property owners. So if they're not engaged and they don't appreciate and they're not in support of where the plan is going, then you've done all your work for nothing. So I would really encourage you to have a very positive and productive public involvement. And thank you for your attention today. Thank you ma'am. Are there any other public comments? I t are there any zoom comments? And we do not have anyone in attendance at this time. Okay. The chair will entertain a motion to approve scope of services and authorize the city manager to execute an agreement with Inspire Placemaking Collective for CRA downtown master plan update. So moved. Thank. Thank you. Do any commissioners have any comments or questions? Because I'm going to have a few to Commissioner Banther, please. Yes. Thank you. I do want to reiterate what Mr. Penny just just said. I was a part of that focus group, and it was about 15 years ago, probably. And I think that worked out very, very well, how we had representatives from different boards. We had people that were appointed by different city commissioners. And I do think that's important to get them involved, to get to get that, that buy in process during when the, when, when, when these documents are being, you know, formulated and not and not just afterwards, I think you get a lot more buy in and support from the public. So I hope to see that happen when the time comes. Thank you. Thank you. Commissioner. Commissioner Eisner thank you mayor. I also agree with what Mrs. Turpin said as far as having people engaged, it is the CRA area. And from the day I was originally a commissioner, I did send out. And I believe that we should get all the input. I did send out some requests for what the CRA area people, the business people would want to have in their own area. They're the ones paying the bill. So we make the decision, but we should get their input. And I do like the opinion that we should have, you know, one person or maybe even more from a board to give their input and also have public comment into that as well. So thank you. Thank you, Commissioner Eisner. Commissioner DiDonato, I would excuse me, I was just going to concur. I definitely feel that the involvement from the area should be should be implemented, and they should have their say as well and plan it. And it's we need to keep the CRA going in my opinion. So we do need this process. Thank you. Commissioner Donato. Miss Lemons, I want to talk about during this plan, this placemaking or downtown master plan, will this address you know, things that we've talked about rezoning the trail to promote more mixed use and of land use down in the CRA area? Yeah, there'll be a mix of that. Some of it will be part of the CRA. So if there are activities that we want to do within that, that would be part of the master plan. Costs be associated with that. Some of that also would be part of the two other planning documents. So they all kind of fit together as they overlap the CRA. Okay. So yes. And in this document it talks about the scope of services. We I know we mentioned the parking garage, but is there would this board b, you know, object to including some type of hotel or, you know, boutique hotel in the area that fit the CRA? That would be that would be part of the process as well. If a hotel was recommended in the original plan. So I would assume that that would be something that would be recommended. Again. Okay. And when we talk about the parking garage, there's I want aspire and you know, everyone who's going to be working on this. I know we talked about a parking garage in the future, and we know what main properties we seem to talk about, basically where the property is. But I also would like to look at this, you know, and staff and everyone together to look at even possibly the parking, having a parking garage where we're currently renting property that's basically behind the bank on fitness, you know, by those property owners down there, I think it might be a good opportunity to not have to purchase a building to demo it down. And it might be a way to help feed some of that southern part of the city that's going to need parking for future businesses to grow as well. So something to consider. We can also still build those mixed use shops that we sort of saw in that diagram, still in that property over there, and help be able to feed parking that way without, you know, we could still promote walkability and more businesses on that side, but also consider having the parking garage over by between Lemon and Court Street west of Pinellas Avenue. Just so something to consider as well. And maybe there might be a trailer situation we can do to for boat trailers, because we know the issue over there in the neighborhood. So just something for this board to consider. And I'm really interested how our codes are right now in the CRA. We have an item coming up soon, and I'd like for us to we understand the historical aspect of everything in the CRA, but I'm looking to increase the f.a.r of what's currently allowed there at 200%. I'd be willing to listen to something between 3 to 400%. And also, I'd like to be able to build have buildings go up to at least four stories. If we're going to have something in the future, we're going to set a precedent. Let's do it right. And so we already got good codes. And when it comes to the historical aspect of it all, so we're going to maintain our historical perspective. But I think it's time to look at, as some people have discussed in increasing f.a.r, increasing height and trying to spur economic development with some good development here in the future. And with with that said, it looks like we have City manager just turned your light on and then we're going to go to vice mayor. Yeah, I just wanted to put in there. That part of this process is we create a vision and a plan. Then we look at our code and see, will our code allow us allow that to happen. And then we'll we would end up coming back to you with, with revisions and or by updating the special area plan all at the same time. It'll all be incorporated in. And then so we're, we're certain that we can actually do what we've envisioned by our own rules. Okay. I just want it to be something that we're only envisioning by what's set by our current rules, because then that limits us, and we want to see the true potential come out here in the future for this community. Vice mayor. I'd like to yeah, definitely concur. With what Miss Trapani recommended. Maybe she can share if she has the information on how those committees were chosen and how that committee was chosen in the past. Maybe you could share that data with us. Not. You don't have to do it right this second. I mean, you could just send it to send it to the city manager or send it to me. I'll be. That'd be great. I think these are excellent. All this master plan visions, I think all foster a public private partnerships. So I'd like to see that inspire us, that they look at incorporating public private partnerships. Obviously, I think the next discussion item is obviously one that where we're we'd be exploring a public private partnership. But even on the to piggyback off what the mayor is talking about as far as the garage, I think a public private partnership is ideal for something along that line. And so anyways, if you could I don't again, I don't know how this process is going to work, but once we if once we agree to utilize this, this company, then I guess we're going to give them direction where they would come before us. Is before you now okay. Yeah. But so when and what I want that in the scope is, is exactly again like what the mayor is talking about. But that's most of these are going to be done public private. And I know there's things that we've done in the past, but I think we need to do them in a, in a bigger fashion. So that's it. Thank you. Okay. Are there any comments or questions for the commission for staff. Okay. Vice mayor, can you entertain a motion that includes some of the amendments we were talking about? Give me those. Give me those items again so I can I'd like to. I'll make a motion to approve the scope of services and authorize the city manager, city manager to execute an agreement with Inspire Placemaking Collective for CRA downtown master plan update and to amend that the scope of work include a hotel boutique hotel location within the CRA and to also include potential land code FR changes, increases in size height to. To understand the full scope of the future of the CRA and include public, private and include public private partnerships. Well, I would I would be concerned at at directing us to put a hotel site in there. I think the economic analysis that we're going to do, will will examine that and bring us the data and help us show where it might be appropriate. And if the process can yield that. But to set that out at the beginning I think would be different. No. Thank you, sir, for clarifying that. That makes me that understands that we don't have to include that in the motion and that it will come out naturally within the scope. Okay, so with that said, I retract that motion. We're just going to make them approve it. Yeah. Make a motion to approve. Item two, approve scope of services, and authorize the city manager to execute an agreement with Inspire Placemaking Collective for CRA downtown master plan update. Mayor, we do have a motion on the floor. It was from Commissioner Eisner with the second from Commissioner Banther just waiting for a roll call. My apologies. It's been that long. Okay. There are no comments. Roll call please. Commissioner Banther. Yes, Commissioner DiDonato. Yes, Commissioner Eisner. Yes. Vice chair. Yes. Chair. Yes. Now we're on to item three, discussion and direction on RFP. Scope and process for CRA owned property at 144 East Tarpon Avenue, Forbes lot. And we have Miss Lemons economic developer to go over the item. Thank you again Karen Lemons economic development Manager. This is a discussion and direction on an RFP scope and process for the CRA property at 144 East Tarpon Avenue, which is informally called the Forbes Lot. For a brief background, the property was acquired by the city through a lien foreclosure, and it was sold by the city to the CRA in 2012, it was sold to the CRA to provide the ability to offer incentives for redevelopment incentives that the city could not do if the city owned it. There were many attempts over the years to redevelop the property through several RFP through Lois, and we had some unsolicited proposals, and for various reasons, none of those proposals were successful. And I think Commissioner Banther was here for several of them. So he has the background. We've got the time. I put together a timeline for you. So you had some information on what's been done over the years. So you can take a look at that for the discussion tonight. Staff is really looking for confirmation that the CRA board does want to pursue an RFP and then input into what you may want to see in that RFP. In the past, we have had the series board setting the vision for the property, as well as any incentives that may be offered. In prior years, the land was offered at no cost. We've included impact fees. Some of the impact fees cannot be waived, so the CRA would pay for those impact fees. In more recent years. With the last RFP, we did not include the land at no cost, but we said it was negotiable based on the strength of the proposal, as the proposal was closest to the fit that the CRA wanted to see. More incentives would be offered. The last RFP was issued in 2018. There were some unsolicited proposals then that were received in 2020 and 2020 that that project did ultimately receive approval by the CRA board, and a lease purchase agreement was signed. However, the developer after several months. Declined the project, so that one that lasted a couple of years, and since then the property has been used for event space. It was regraded. There's been discussions on several different uses, but it's been used as event space, primarily for First Fridays and the bandshell. And. Seating for patrons. I would like to just also add that the city manager has asked the city attorney to review the process by which the selection process and the bid award can be done through the CRA. We've done it a couple of different ways over the years. We've used the standard procurement process, where city staff acts as the reviewers. They look at the proposals and they make a recommendation to the CRA board for approval or denial. And we've also done a nonstandard approach where the CRA board reviewed the proposals, and they made the recommendation and they made the bid award. So just not quite sure if we can still do those procedures, but that would be something that I know you'll be interested in. So we'll have information for you on that. And then on this proposal as well, if you choose to go forward, we're also recommending to do what we're calling an industry day. It's like a pre-application meeting. And we've had those in the past where we invited developers in to talk about the project, get information from them, listen to what they need. We tell them what we're looking for this time. We're talking about actually going out to the lot itself with staff, having them look at the property, telling them about it and then having a Q&A afterward where we can learn from the developers and the interested parties on what they will need to develop this project, what kind of incentives, what are they looking for? What works, what won't work. And so that will give us information as we craft the RFP. And then we can provide them with information on, you know, what we're looking for as a city so we can learn together. So we think that might help the process along. Once we do that, then we will formulate the RFP. And then if and then we may bring it back. If the city manager would like to bring it back for you to look at again. So with that, then I just I welcome the discussion. Thank you. Are there any public comments on this item? Good evening. Mayor, vice mayor, commissioners and city staff. My name is Casey Smith and I reside at 115 North Grosse Avenue here in downtown Tarpon Springs. I own one amazing fine downtown as well as our newest gift shop gifted at the Sponge Docks. Thank you for the opportunity to speak tonight about the potential development of the Forbes lot in downtown Tarpon Springs. This property presents an exciting and timely opportunity to further enhance the vibrancy, economy, and community spirit of our city. Currently, the lot remains empty for most of the year, used primarily for around 11 nights of First Friday events. While these evenings are a wonderful community tradition, the space has the potential to be so much more. A place that serves the heart of downtown every day, bringing continuous value rather than limited seasonal use. The city's comprehensive plan focuses on smart growth, including infill development that revitalizes underused spaces and makes the most of existing infrastructure. The city's Infill Development Survey defined infill as development on vacant land or redevelopment of an underused site in an area that's already developed. Redeveloping the Forbes lot aligns directly with these goals, creating an opportunity for a dynamic, mixed use or commercial hub. Thoughtful development could include retail, dining, residential space, or a combination or a combination. Increasing foot traffic, boosting economic activity, and strengthening the community. Historically, this site served a similar purpose when it was developed in 1906. The two story building that once stood here featured retail space on the first floor and living an office space above, reflecting the traditional mixed use design that was vital to early Tarpon Springs economic and social life. This kind of setup wasn't just about buildings, it was about people. It was about neighbors working, living, and connecting in the same space, making our city feel like home. That sense of connection is something we can continue to honor as we consider the future of this lot. I would also encourage the board to prioritize local partnerships in this endeavor. Local developers and businesses are uniquely positioned to reflect and honor the distinctive character of Tarpon Springs by working with stakeholders who understand and cherish this community, we can ensure the Forbes lot becomes an asset that feels authentic and rooted in the culture of our city. The time to invest in this space is now developing. The Forbes lot will build on the momentum of downtown's revitalization, creating new opportunities and delivering lasting benefits for our residents, visitors, and local businesses. I respectfully urge the board to seize the opportunity to transform an empty lot into a cornerstone of Tarpon Avenue's continued success. Thank you, thank you ma'am. Are there any other public comments? Good evening everyone. My name is Julia Bodwell. I live at 608 Penn Street. I own the Gilded Page bookstore downtown at 123 East Court Street. I just wanted to express my support for the development of the Forbes lot. As a business owner downtown. I believe completing the street by building on the empty lot would benefit our town. Overall, I'd love to see the lot developed and more businesses open. I believe it would allow our town to grow and flourish even more than we already have. Thank you, thank you ma'am. Are there any. Thank you ma'am. He's got a poster board. Oh, dangerous. So, hello. My name is Christy Howard. I reside at 905 Bayshore Drive, and I own the property at 155 East Tarpon Avenue. It houses my business and another business to come. And maybe a couple more upstairs one day. And I'm here to say that I've invested heavily in the community, and I love the community. And I recently appeared before the Heritage Preservation Board to get approval for my building to have the balcony restored. I don't know if you know, but it's the Gourley Building and there's the door to nowhere and all of that. And Panthers well knows. And if I'm going to spend a couple of hundred thousand dollars to make this happen and it's going to look lovely on the street, I need the city to fill that lot across the street. It doesn't look good. It's not helpful to my values, so I'm willing to do it. I want to go all in, but I just want you guys to do your part. And, you know, I spent the 40 bucks. I'm going to get my money's worth here. I use this at HPB to show this is my building. Back in the day, I think they actually had an even better picture that I didn't have blown up. But before the building next to me was put there at the corner. And you can see here. See that nice two story stately building that really anchors the area. And so that's what we need. We need that completion there. And I think it would look amazing. And primarily though with the RFP, I just want to ask that maybe we give a lot of guidance on what we want to see there, with some importance to having it open to both sides Court Street, Tarpon Avenue, like some real specifics, so that we don't end up with a lot of RFPs that don't really suit our needs. I know Gilded Page would love it to have like more traffic coming out that way. Like really get people moving around on both sides of the street and hopefully we can do the parking garage and it would really come together. So thank you so much and I hope you all can find a path to making this happen for us. Thank you ma'am. Are there any other public comments? Hi everybody. How are we doing today? I just wanted to. Ma'am, can you state your name? Oh, Tracy Suede Kearns restaurant. Thank you. Kind of piggyback on a little bit of what Christy said that we definitely need more than we have utilized right now with just a band and snow place like tarpon. So I would love to see either a restaurant or retail shops on the bottom, condos or townhouses, and maybe a rooftop bar, like something really cool that would bring business to the downtown community, yet keeping it historic so that it goes in line with everything that we already have. And I guess that's about it for me. So thank you, thank you. Good evening. My name is John Trapani, 128 East Tarpon Avenue. What I handed out to you was a letter that the downtown property owners and merchants sent to the mayor and commissioners in April of 23. At the time, it was a discussion about parking and the Forbes site. So I don't want to get conflated with the parking. Just what I ask you to look at is the two paragraphs on the second page that have some ink drawn around them. And I would like to point out to you that the tsunami people who were awarded the bid on the last proposal didn't just walk away, they were caught in a crisis of economic magnitude that the country hasn't seen, you know, in more than 100 years, which was the Covid crisis, the prices of materials jumped up. The numbers of return on investments wouldn't work. So they they were first forced by market conditions to walk away. They didn't just say we don't want to do it after they negotiated for months. It took months to get to the agreement with the city. They had drawings that were they spent tens of thousands of dollars on drawings and attorneys working with the city. So I just want to be clear that there is an interest from the business community to and from the merchants to see this complete the street. I can't remember who came up with that idea, but the idea is complete the street make, you know, fill in the whole. So and then the, you know, there was it's not the lack of desire to see something there, it's that the city hasn't really gone out and promoted that this is available. There's no signs. There's nothing on the city's websites, the internet, the anything saying this is an economic opportunity for you. So I think the ladies made the case for us that you need to see a building there. So I think the process is what you need to focus on. And the process seems to be a little flawed. I mean, the memorandum from the city says that that property has a 1.25 F.a.r. It's really the code allows a two, a two F.a.r they're not a 1.25. So the report is in your packet, material is in error. It's just the right thing to do. Mayor coleus, the I can tell you from being around a long time. Concepts of a hotel. You can't just say we want one on this piece of property. It's you can say, we'll allow a hotel in the downtown, but you can't force the market. Larry Travis and I learned that the hard way. We owned the seven acres that we bought, the seven acres at the top of the sponge docks and held it for 10 or 12 years. Water for seven acres on the water. We couldn't get a hotel. We tried. We tried every hotel chain in the country and they all well, we don't we don't like the location. So Live Oak went through. So what I'm saying is don't pigeonhole the property for just a hotel. Say, you know, what are the proposals? If a hotel comes, okay, fine. But, you know, say in this area you can have a hotel for like, what the city manager said a few minutes ago, but so I think the process is you just need to be careful on the process and make it the last time I've witnessed these things. And first of all, let me just say this. I don't have any financial interest with anybody who's wanting to do this property. I don't want to do it. I'm capable. I'm financially capable. I'm I've got the skill sets to do it. I don't want to do it. The problem comes in if the RFP isn't specific, like you get this many impact fee and that impact fees. Let's talk about those. There are impact fee credits due to the property on what was there. If the city wants to give impact fee credits or by impact fee credits over and above what the existing building was, that's a different thing. Parking. I think the city and I spoke to Mr. Rudd about this. If you go 3 or 4 storeys, there's a certain amount of parking credits that are with the with the property. If you go above what was there, then you get into the same thing that we were raising hell about with that letter on the coach. So I just I have to cut you off. I gave you about I ask for a consideration for a long time resident, former commissioner in downtown property owner to continue the discussion. I ask you to waive the rules on time. I'll. If this board approves, I will waive the rules for two minutes for you, sir. We need a motion for that. That's a motion to approve. Second. Okay. Roll call please. Mr. Banther. Yes, Commissioner. DiNardo. Yes, Commissioner Eisner. Yes, vice chair. Galanis. Yes, yes, yes. So. So thank you. So thank you. Commissioners. So I was talking about the parking. There's a certain amount of parking credits for the existing building that was there and was torn down over and above that. The city should be looking for some parking, that the developer should be looking for some parking spaces. What I would suggest to you to do is very quickly create a parking fund, almost like a tree bank fund, but parking fund where if they're short ten spaces and they're pick a number 5000, 7500, then they have to pay that into a fund. And you could put that towards a parking garage or some other surface parking. That's that's what I wanted to say to you about the parking. Sir, I'm going to ask you one question, because you know that downtown very well, if that f.a.r was increased to possibly 3 or 4.0 of what? That square foot. What do you think the difference in quality and everything you can fit into that building would provide to the downtown. And that's that's the real truth that I'm trying to get at and doing the best we can with this one time shot. I think a three would probably be the max of what you you would want. Other than that, it would be what's called out of scale. And yeah, I think a three would be okay. But the problem is you got to be careful about increasing fares, because if you do that, then you get people wanting to tear things down to build new. And we're in a historic district. So I think there's a balance there. But I think easily a three could work on that site or in the downtown. Just don't create a situation where you have people wanting to tear buildings down to build new ones so they can get get an extra two stories or something. All right. So you still have a minute and 20 left if you'd like to speak. Still happy to answer any questions you have. But like I said, I have no financial interest in anything other than being a good thing for the community. Thank you sir. Next speaker please. Good evening. Happy New Year and happy birthday to me. Happy birthday. Happy birthday. Thank you. Had to get that in Juliana. Day 413 East Oakwood Street, Tarpon Springs. It's good about the property on top and Avenue, but what all includes downtown. I'm going to talk about Safford Avenue. There's property on Safford Avenue that's open, that's available if the city you purchasing property dual buildings, Safford Avenue, the corner of Lime Street and Oakwood. That's all I got to say. Are there any other public comments? It are there any zoom comments? And we do not have anyone in attendance at this time. Okay. So this is a discussion and direction item. City attorney put his light on. So I'd like for him to speak for the commission. Yeah I just wanted to address the issue of purchasing services and goods, which was brought up by staff under state law. 163.370, paragraph five. It specifically says that this CRA will follow the same procedures and guidelines of the governmental entity that created it. So whatever your, your, your administrative codes are or whatever they are for procurement of services, that's what you have to follow as a CRA board. Thank you, City attorney. And now I believe we had Commissioner Eisner tonight. Light was on first Commissioner Eisner. Thank you mayor. So when I saw this, I was a little bit taken back. And I'll say why I'm listening to all of the opinions here. And they're all great opinions. We've had the Hoffman property for. I can't tell you how long. I think it's almost since I've moved down here. And if you go on to connect Tarpon, you will see every single person that has put an opinion out there is different than the next one, and I'm sure that's going to happen with this as well. You know, I'm listening to hotel, I'm listening to, you know, retail, office space, what I kind of thought and what I'd like to see done is that we have this branding and scope of, you know, inspire that's going to be there doing this inclusive to find out what we should have there and what we shouldn't have there. And, I mean, I don't mind discussing it this evening and getting people's opinions. They're all great to hear, but I would like for the inspire to go through and get us all of the information from the boards, from the CRA people, from the public interaction, and for them to come back and to give us a summation of what the people want, because that's what we are here for. It's not what we want, it's what they would be best suited for. So I was a little I thought this was the horse in front of the water instead of the water in front of the horse. Like I said, I don't mind speaking about it. I would love to do something with it. I mean, I heard the comment of 11 days. We use it out of the year. It's true. And it's not useful. But we should have a strong consensus of what we're going to do with it, whether it's sell it, parking lot it, hotel it. I mean, you know, it should come from the CRA people that are paying in the money. We're spending their money and we make the decision. But it's it really is the business people that are paying for this. So let's get this input first from inspire. And I think that's only 2 or 3 months away. They finish up I think March 4th, and they'll come back to us with a response. And at that point we will have a better consensus of what everybody wants to do. So that's my take on it. Thank you, Commissioner Eisner. Commissioner Banther. Yes. Thank you. Yeah. I go back to this property when I was on the commission, the first 1 or 2 rounds. And I think that when we talk about this and absolutely, in my opinion, it needs to be developed 100%, but I think we need to understand when we go through this process, assuming we do that, you know, performance is everything okay. When I was on the board and we awarded it to CrossFit Tarpon Springs, which is no longer in Tarpon anymore, we awarded it to them and they could not perform. I think there was somebody before them had the same struggle. And then the most recent one was during Covid and Nami Holdings, for reasons I don't blame them, you know, pulled out. I have heard that they still have strong interest in the in this property, and I do know they are developers that can perform there local. So I think whomever we end up choosing, if we go the route of, of quote unquote selling the property and we start the process of choosing the different applications for this, I would encourage the board to stay focused on, again, who can perform, because I think we've just been around this so many times and people can, with the best intentions, present plans and get financing and whatnot. But we need to be able to this, this finally needs to actually happen. I don't fully disagree with what Commissioner Eisner is saying. I do want to have all the input possible. However, I do believe, you know, in my opinion, in my experience, this this, this, I don't want to say it's settled. It has to sell. But I mean, that's a majority consensus that that, that I hear and we're put up here in this capacity and the CRA board or in the Board of commissioners to make these decisions, obviously, with all the public input we can do to his, to his, to his comments. So I, I'm, I'm in full support of us going out to going out to bid in whatever way is appropriate and seeing who is still interested. But I think we should give some deference and some attention to the most recent applicant for that, for that property, due to the fact that I believe that they have the ability to perform, because the last thing I want to do is, is go through this whole process again, we award somebody the bid, and then we're back to square one. And I think this we need to get this on the tax rolls. I think just just as we saw, you know, the picture. Thank you. Of what downtown looked like back in the day that that building was there. I remember when this all happened and the city obtained it through code enforcement and it was since torn down. So I just think it's time, but I just can't reiterate enough that we need to, you know, focus on performance as, as a, as a metric and not just who has a bright and shiny plan. Thank you. Thank you, Commissioner Banther. Commissioner DiDonato, I would concur with my colleague just said I and I think the input from from the public here tonight or today depends on how you look at it. But anyway, I have felt for a long time that property should be developed. I'm all for the RFP and I agree with Commissioner Matthews statement of being qualified and ready to make this happen. So and I think that individual should be given some consideration in this process. But it's an RFP. It's all open. So I'd like to see it go forward again. My thing is you talk about it, you talk about it, you talk about it and we don't get it done. So I'd like to see this done. I want to see that kind of thing. You know how we're going to do it. So thank you, Vice Mayor. So I think that filling that spot is critical to the downtown. I don't need I don't need inspire to tell me that that hole needs to be filled. So I don't think there's any reason to I mean, if they came back and said, oh, they don't think that hole should be filled and it should be a park, I'm not going to go along with that regardless. So I think we know that that spot needs to be filled. Yeah, I think it it we need to take whatever historic pictures we have of that, of what it looked like before and try to replicate as much of that as we can. I think that would be important. I think we should direct the city manager to give us a look at all the incentives that come along with the building of a, of a piece of property, and come back with some recommendations of what you think we could offer to incentivize that that project. I think that, like Mr. Trapani said, I don't think we should be overly specific on exactly what goes there. I think we should allow the developers to utilize their own imaginations and their and take advantage of different artistic proposals or not even more market driven proposals, because they'll know, you know, we I don't it's not really our job to say, okay, we want you know, hotel there, we want this there. We can't we can't mandate that. And even if we did, nobody's they're going to only build what they can make money building. Right. So we got to let them let the process and trust that we'll get some good, some good proposals. And these people obviously are going to have to get return on their investment, and they're going to build what they think the market can support. Yeah, I agree with Commissioner Banther on the strength of the applicants. Obviously, whoever had proposed before should be allowed to propose as well. But, you know, we may have some new players in the game as well that come up since that time. I think that, you know, the whole idea of a garage and this kind of goes back to the prior discussion item, the whole idea of a garage isn't, to me, isn't to just facilitate the businesses that are there. Now. I think it is to spur economic development for the whole area. And that goes with what Giuliana, Giuliana was talking about. With that Stafford corridor. So if we have the parking adequate to support all of that area, and that's what we should be looking at, not just a parking to facilitate what businesses exist. Now, you know, I'd like to see Pinellas Avenue more developed going down right now and having downtown be more expansive, you know, and then it goes to the item that's coming up. I don't know if it's I think it's the next one we're talking about, you know, little vehicles moving people around, which, you know, I think would be really cool. But I think that all has to be part of this whole plan. But again, that garage is, is again, I wouldn't I wouldn't be supporting a garage to only take care of who's there now. I would only support a garage if we had the vision to expand our economic footprint in the area. So but I think this is, you know, filling. I think we obviously have a consensus on filling that spot. And I think that's a great idea. So thank you. Thank you. Commissioner, do you have your light back on. Yeah. Sorry I wanted to clarify. At no time did I ever say that I wanted not to be filled. And at no time did I say that I wanted to inspire, to tell me that it needs to be filled. But if you look through what inspire is doing, they're doing a community redevelopment plan update. So it's got strategic framework, it's got illustrations, it's got parking garage, infill commercial sites, infill residential, single family. So they would be able to do the legwork for us to get the feedback from the CRA people and the public. At no time did I say this shouldn't have been done. I started my conversation off by saying it's only been used 11 days a year, so I didn't want anybody to misconstrue what I said. I would like to see it used also, but as we also said, it's an RFP that we're going to do. So it comes in as a bid. And you know the bid gets chosen. Whether that person that wins that bid. Is able to go through with the build or not will not be up to us. It'll be up to them. We hope that it goes through and we hope that it doesn't fall through. But things happen. So that's that's all I just wanted to add to it, and I want that I would like to move ahead and have that filled as well with something that fits our historical Tarpon Avenue and adds to the businesses that are there. Thank you. Sure. Thank you Commissioner. Now, what? I'm looking for everyone. And as vice mayor said, a vision to expand. And what I mean by that. And from what I hear from residents who don't own property at downtown and really don't have stakes, they want a park. But we know as people here and as economic, you know, what we want our downtown to be and the vision to expand and how we want people in and out of the shops, a park to be there permanently is not the best situation. And so, you know, we have to create incentives. As we talked about impact fees, even even properly, given the property away. I don't something along those lines. But that free and as Mr. Terry, Mr. Trapani pointed out, when I looked at it and I saw it had the building for 1.25, but it's currently 2.0. And I'm telling you, if we want this vision to expand, 2.0 is not it? It's got to be bigger and it's got to be a 3.0, potentially a 4.0 with a rooftop experience. And you know, and I mean this in a nice way, vice mayor. But when you go into a development agreement, we do sort of have a say in what we want and what we don't want. And so I don't want to move this forward yet knowing we have a placemaking strategy going out, then we're really putting the cart before the horse because we're right there. We're on the cusp, we have this placemaking ability and I'm telling you right now, I'm not going to support a building there just for a few people to buy some condos and live there forever. What type of turnover are you going to get those people living there, going in and out of those shops, down this, down at the downtown that need the support for the restaurants, that need support for the gifts, that need the support of walking around. You're not going to get it from people living in that building permanently, and you're not going to prove otherwise to me on that. That's why I'm trying to support something that's got the height, got the ability to want a quality developer who knows how to do this, who's done this in other cities time and time again, you know, I'm thinking of even people like Mr. Kokolakis and their company. There's a lot of good developers in in this area know to put in the quality work, but they're not going to attempt it knowing that the code restriction we have and, you know, it's great that we have these historical guidelines that are, you know, keep our town the way they are. But at the same time, you know, we're going to we're going to suffer from potential development opportunities because they're restrictive and they're only going to include people who, you know, it's going to only limit a certain amount of people. So we got to find that fine line on what, you know, as I was we talked about this historic board and, and the guidelines for it, because we've seen some buildings that, you know, have been approved that somewhat, you know, tiptoe that historical line. So I'm not going to open up the door for development agreement on that property for 2.0. I want it bigger. I want to set the precedent. Vice mayor, you've stated in the past you're willing to go to buildings five stories up or five stories or less. Excuse me? Well, you know, I'd like to look at four stories on this one property. How often are you going to get people to go buy these buildings, especially a lot of the locals who own the properties down there, to knock down the historical perspective and potentially build. So if the heights there, you're going to get quality development that we're all seeking. And if we give enough incentives, you know, this, this place should look sharp. It should have beautiful balconies, should have views. It should have potential for to be that center of the downtown market. But if we start thinking that these current codes because we're talking about updating, but yet updating the FA is seems a stretch, it seems like we're going to destroy our downtown perspective and the quality which is not. And also in here there's a parking exemption which shows that there's no it doesn't it's not required pursuant of the table for the smart code to have to provide adequate parking. So do we want to build something that's going to have people come, come people in and out of shops? Or do we want to build something and just have a retail store downstairs? Three, four condos on the second story and that's it. That's not good enough. And I'm not going to support that. We're going to open the door. We're going to do it the right way. And that's what I want to support. So I don't know how this direction is going to go. I'd like to see if this placemaking situation we talked about will help guide us in what we're looking for, but I don't I don't look at it right now where we have our downtown and the way some of the living quarters are upstairs in some places, you know. So if that's what we're looking for, that building will turn into that 30 years from now. But you get the quality development there. And that's why I'm digging this in, because I'm not going to fold on what I think is quality for this community. We'll get it. We'll build it. We have retail. We can have in and out hotel or overnight stay. We're going, we're changing. It looks like we're going in a direction where we're changing the Airbnb rule to no minimums or close to that somewhere along the line. So we're making that attempt to help all those property owners are doing Airbnbs. And so I don't think I'm just not I have a good idea that that place seems to be something where there's turnover and condos. On the second story, which we've seen in other buildings in downtown, I don't think it's going to work in the future, though. City manager, you have your light on. Yes. Thank you mayor. So I just wanted to basically hearing all your comments. What I would recommend is we're going to hold a day where we hear from the development community on, you know, what the market's doing and what kind of they'll ask about incentives and so forth. I'll bring you back incentives we can offer, and we'll bring you back a scope that we think encompasses the comments we've heard that specific enough to get the kind of project we're looking for. I think the master planning will kick off and continue. We probably won't be back. You know, if we were to put out an RFP tomorrow, it would still be March before we, you know, had something ready. So we're still going to meet with the development community and get more input. We'll craft something, show you what we've got. You're if you're happy with it or we tweak it, we'll then we'll put that out and it'll be several months. This this process is going to be you know, we're not going to rush this. And so the, the analysis from the consultants will be occurring simultaneously. And we'll be getting that input as well. So I think the timing will be all right. And I think I've gotten enough information here tonight to move forward with that. We'll go forward with our, our pre-application meeting and then come back to you with something to see if we've captured what we think the be a good RFP. All right. Thank you. And like I said I'm going to state for the record again I don't think 2.0 F.a.r is the quality that we're looking for in this potential in that property. We need to think bigger. We need we need to think of a vision for this community and have another stable hub, a building that's going to look like Tarpon Springs, that we're going to make enough incentives for these people to be able to want to do it. But I'm looking for turnover people to go in and out these places, have breakfast in the morning, shop during the evening, stop at one of these restaurants at night and walk through downtown or potentially go to the sponge docks. I believe it could happen if we make the incentives right enough so that that's what I'm looking to support in the future. But let's see how everything plays out. Vice mayor, you have your light on. Mr. Mayor. We're not in disagreement here. What what I what I'm my point was that we have an open. Palette. Right. Let's let's allow the RFP to go. Let the developers come back with their proposals. We don't limit things. I'm agreement. We don't limit. Let's again, the market will. They're going to tell us what they think they can build to that. That can get them a return on their investment in that spot. And then and let's allow that to come forward, because we may get some great ideas rather than us saying, okay, we want exactly this, you know, let's just let it be free. But I trust that we'll get proposals, and I think we'll get proposals that probably you would that you might like as well. So I think that, that that's my, my point. I wasn't now the when we even if we go three stories or whatever we go again the historic look has to be there. That's why, you know, I made that comment that the original structure we it'd be nice to see the original structure and see if we can put together something that that's going to be important to me. Everybody's got everybody up here has something that is important to them. Obviously, height has some something of importance to you. Quality. Yeah. But obviously we want quality. But quality also would be you know we don't want some metal modern structure there. It wouldn't fit the downtown. So we have to it's got so it's got to meet all these different criterias. I think we leave it as open ended as possible with giving again the general ideas of what we want. As far as, you know, look this and that and let the developers come back with ideas because I think they may have ideas that we haven't thought about. And that's not our I don't think there's anybody up here who's whose expertise is as, as, as deep as some of the people that are going to be making proposals to us. So okay. Anyways, that's my two bits on that. Can I ask the city manager or the city attorney that through this development agreement, how are we going to, you know, developers are going to come to us and, you know, for this RFP and submit, but they're going to build, you know, the specs to the codes that we currently have. Correct. They can't build the codes to 3.0 F.a.r or anything greater than that. If right now we're saying it's only 2.0 property. So I don't want us to limit it to that. And I want us to be able to have the potential to see what the vision is from quality developers at a scale that's that's a little that's above what our current code states. So I don't know how we go about doing that. Well, my experience with development agreements is. It's sort of you sort of create the conditions you're interested and you you come to an agreement and negotiate what what we want and what they need. You come to an agreement so it could include a change in the FA. And meanwhile we'll be looking at the our overall regulations. But if it doesn't line up, the development agreement is like a the name escapes me. But when you do a larger plot of land like a neighborhood, you do a development agreement that's like its own zoning, its own set of rules that have been mutually agreed upon. And they have to and they have to follow that agreement. No, actually, I feel very comfortable hearing that. Commissioner Eisner, your light is on. Yes, ma'am. Thank you. So I don't feel comfortable putting an RFP out for this, and I won't vote on it. I want to get feedback from the people again. I'm going to say this till I'm blue in the face, from the people that are paying the taxes and what their input is into this area. They have the businesses. I do not have anything invested in there. So I want to make the decision according to what they want, not what we want. I can't I mean, you could put out an RFP and then you could get developers to come in and just want to do only a hotel there. Well, that may be good for them. That may not be good for the people there. You may have it where a developer only wants to come in and put in an office and retail space. Again, I don't know. I know I want to have it filled, but I don't know what is the what the public wants in there or what the majority of the people want in there. I think it was a great idea that we heard from Commissioner Banther talk about having all this input from different boards and the public input. That's who paying the bill. And I will not go for an RFP until we have some clear guidance of what is going to go there. I just don't want to fill it with, you know, the first wealthy investor that comes in and says, okay, I have the money. This is what I'm going to put there, and it doesn't fit our style. So that's where I'm at. Yeah. Well, this this item is, is a discussion and direction on RFP scope and process. So City Manager, let me ask you something. Can we take the approach in which maybe you talk to some of these developers who have been locally a part, you know, originally a part of it or any potential local ones, and you get their opinion on what they think. You know, a property like that would potentially build and yield or make it, you know, incentivize them to want to do something like that. I mean, I think that'd be a good process and direction. I know we got this placemaking master plan, you know, but I don't know if that's necessarily going to dictate that building in itself. But, you know, I want us to stretch the code a little bit on this building and. Well, we're, we're not asking you to, to approve the RFP tonight or to have us go ahead and issue one. We're just want to get this discussion and we will have those discussions at the Preapplication meeting, the industry day. And then we'll come back to you with an RFP to approve, and you'll be able to modify it. And edit it as you like. In the meantime, I would I would encourage you to talk to folks about their feelings about the law and what what they would like to see happen there. And then you can provide that input when we bring that RFP. I'm not sure when we've scheduled the I think we've scheduled the industry day yet, but we haven't yet. We'll talk to Janine about that. And then we could also we have a the Let's Talk business meeting coming up in January, which is a local business owner. So we could discuss this project at that meeting. And then we can get input from the business owners in the area as to what they would like to see there or their ideas. So then you'd be getting the input from the public that way, and then you'd be getting input from the developers at the industry Preapplication meeting that we have. And at the same time, I'll reach out to all of the previous developers who have applied, most of all of the local developers who are very successful and some have been mentioned here tonight, have all looked at the RFP and have submitted projects or have indicated why they haven't. So I'll reach out to them, make sure that they're at the industry day, and get some input from them as to what they might see code wise, incentive wise, that would help make a successful project perfect. And I'm just going to say it one other way. I don't know how many ways to say it, but if we have to have staff and planning, rewrite the codes before we can see what a potential of a development is of a building, you know, then that's something I'd like to push for direction, because I'm not supporting that 2.0 f.a.r as written right now. So any more questions or comments from the board? City manager I know you got a lot of direction. Got what I need. Thank you. Thank you so much. We are now moving on to item for discussion and direction on RFP for shuttle service. And we have the City Manager to present this item. Thank you. You gave us direction to bring back an RFP. And in the meantime procurement came to me and said, hey, you know, we do have the option of piggybacking on an existing contract like we do in many cases. And I had indicated in my cover that it would be, I think, still about four months minimum. I found out today that they said if they can use our chargers, it could be as little as two months. Implementation. The challenge for us is the season is going to be ending the tourist season. So and I think that's about probably April or probably after Easter typically. So if we don't start till March, are we going to get a good feel for it or do we go ahead and issue an RFP, which we have already, I believe, and we would shoot for next fiscal year, October, the next tourist season, basically to get the proposals in, you all consider them. If you select someone, then we'll we'll target the next tourist season to start that service and see how it goes, but that we have the option of going with Donlands piggybacking on Dunedin's contract. But it still will be probably two months before we could have the have them on the road picking people up. Thank you, Mr. Rudd. Are there any public comments on this item? Hi. Sue Swenson 327 Manatee. Just have a quick question on that. When you talk about the RFP and piggybacking on something we've discussed before, whether or not there like, how's that structured? What's the process? Do they go from point A to point B or do they stop at C, D, E, and F? Is that going to be part of that too? Well there what this this particular service we piggyback has an app and you can call for a pickup. And it needs to either start or end in the CRA. So it'll be funded by the CRA. So it could bring people to the CRA or take people home at the end of the night. So for example, you go from Sponge City up to the sponge docks. Yeah. As long as it starts or ends within the redevelopment area. All right. Thank you. It does, it does. Yeah. Are there any other public comments? It are there any zoom comments. And we do not have anyone in attendance at this time. Thank you. I know this is a discussion and direction item. So we're going to have a commissioner banter. Your light was on first. Yes. Thank you. I said in in past discussions that I would consider this item, and I definitely am not 100% opposed to it, but I think in light of what we discussed tonight and what we know we have to do here, I think this might be a little much. Also, the price tag of almost $20,000 a month. I have some concerns with and as well, I'm not sure this was his point, but I like what he said. As far as the city manager mentioning seasons, I think we need to account for that as well in the sense of do we need this 12 months out of the year? I think we have a lot on our on our plate right now. And while this isn't like a planning project and something terribly hard, I just think this might be getting to getting too ahead of ourselves. And for the price tag of almost 20 grand a month, especially for 12 months when we're we are very seasonal here. I just have some concerns about this. So I personally would not be in support of moving forward at this time. That does not mean I never want this or I think it's a bad idea. I just think timing and cost wise now is not now is not the best time for this. Thank you. Thank you, Commissioner Banther. Commissioner Eisner, thank you mayor. I don't know where you got the 12 months, but we were looking to try to do this. Yeah, I looked in there as well. I see that we have it for 4 to 6 months. The phase to use this, I know that we were capitalizing it is a little bit confusing because we were looking at the Dunedin presentation, not what our presentation. Is that correct? City manager. Because there's wording in here like with $219,000. But that's Dunedin not us. Correct. We would amend the scope. Right. So we clearly states I just want you to know, if you've read the backup, it clearly states that we would amend it for what we want. They have three vehicles. We were only looking for two. They're they travel a different area than we do. What we'd be doing is getting about four months worth of in season and having to keep them on for two months out of season. If we were to rush into it, as was said, which if we're trying to do a test run, I think you can get away and do that and figure out whether it's worthwhile to do for the following year. I don't think it's going to be 20,000 a month. The way I figured it, and I don't know, does that include the kickback from the advertising that goes on there? Is that our final amount? Because they do give us 50% back for the advertising that goes on there. I didn't see that in here. I'm sorry. I'm not certain. Yeah. What that result would be. So that could be 50% of what the costs are as well. I would like to go ahead and get a little bit more information on this, but we still have four months of full time usage. In answer to the question of where this takes us, it goes from mirrors all the way to the sponge docks and it covers, you know, all of the CRA area. So it's from the Spring Bayou, almost a little bit past Safford, but it's just not an even line. So but we're only be using it three days a week. I mean, I'd like to know what the price is for three days a week. You know, we're trying to capitalize and leap on to their deal. But their deal is more in depth in hours in days of the week, in every, every aspect of it, in the amount of time. We're not going to do this for 12 months now. Maybe next year we could do it for the first six months. We could do it for eight months, I don't know. We've got to see how it is and the feedback we get and the feedback we get from the people that, you know, they get dropped off around the CRA area. So that's where I'm at. I'd like to try to move on it, but I do need a little bit more fine tuning on the prices and what we'd be asking for. Thank you. Commissioner. Commissioner DiDonato. I would agree with what was previously said by Commissioner Banther. He pretty much took the words out of my mouth. We we've got a big bullet to bite for the next year at least, and we need some stability in that direction. And I think the more we keep adding spending. We're talking about a garage. We're talking about development. Property. I don't think it's a bad idea down the road. I just I just feel strongly in my heart that right now is not the time to be doing this project and spending staff time. We've got so much that they could be spending time on. I just feel it's premature at this point. Vice Mayor Koulianos yeah, I'm I'm in agreement with Commissioner Donato and Commissioner Banther. I'm actually a taxpayer in the CRA, so it's actually some of my money as well. So yeah, it's premature. It'd be nice to have these things. I actually made an observation about that on Facebook. And no, it would be nice, but I think it's we're ahead of the we're ahead of our skis on this one. So I'm not in favor of moving on this right now. Commissioner Eisner light is on. Thank you mayor. So I don't want the board to confuse the fear of the lack of sales taxes and all of the things that that we had from the hurricane. This is not tax payer money. This is cra money that we have sitting there. To help stimulate their business. That's what it is. It's the CRA. It's going to help the CRA area where we're actually taking their money, if that's what they want to do with it and have more commerce. This would just stimulate it. So I don't see this being a loss at all. It's not like we're making the people of the town pay for this. This is coming from their money. As you said, Commissioner Koulianos, this is yours. Taxpayer money, but it stimulates the business. It allows people to move around, which is the number one thing that we have a problem with. People cannot get from Tarpon Avenue over to the sponge docks or vice versa. It opens up, it makes Tarpon Springs more viable for people to be able to go and spend money all around town without having to park. So that's my statement. I would be, I will be for this, even if you all vote against it. City manager, I want to ask you a few questions, didn't we? This is for it to have a contractor potentially come and provide these services. But right now it's stated that, you know, in this agreement that the days stated is what Commissioner Eisner is saying. Do we have an ability to set a proposal for three days? If we piggyback off of Dunedin's, we modify the scope and they've they've expressed that they're willing to do that. Freebie is willing to we wouldn't need if we did two days, two vehicles. Okay. And have have you had time to consider maybe if this can be done internally at a cheaper rate during seasonal time because like New Port Richey has remember they have like two six person golf carts and they shuttle people around. Is there just some other way to possibly consider doing this at a at a cheaper cost? Well, as I presented, I think last month I had the cost of those units. And those are actually a little fancier than a golf cart. There are those stretched golf carts that are less expensive, and then you would have a part timers that would drive those and so forth. So there is that avenue where we could just own them and schedule them as we wanted, and use them as we needed to start with one as an example. That's an option we can research over the coming months. If the commission doesn't go forward with this. And as we see, because with this, even with this, we if we triggered it today, we'd only I think we'd only get about two months actually of season. We get we'd get maybe March, April and then it would drop off. So my feeling was we either way, we kind of looking at it next year, even if we issue the RFP now and get input. I think it would be more effective to do it as part of the next fiscal. We budgeted in the CRA for next year and catch the next tourist season. If we don't go forward tonight, we have time to keep looking at those other options. We can look up the cost of just those long golf carts and bring that back to you. Yeah, what I would like from this commission is to us to consider at least bringing something forward, whether it be done in-house, potentially to look at it or come back with this, piggyback off the two, three days. You know, I, I know we keep hearing about we need to be conservative and conservative, you know, and I understand we had the storms. But you know, we got to see these numbers in front of us from we went through the worst part of the storm. So I want to see what we've actually missed out on and sales tax opportunities and other things. And I understand the rest of the nation may not will still be reeling too. And that affects them coming into town. But we got to focus on what our numbers are and how reflective they are. And at the same time, we got to try to invite people to move around town. And so even if you don't support it in the future, I'd like for at least support to move forward just to look at it, because we're saying we're being conservative, you know, we need to look out for our money, but we don't got no numbers in front of us, you know? And so I just, you know, I'd like to hear from Ron telling us on some of those decisions as well. So what I'm looking to do is potentially have an RFP come back with the limited days. Now, can we potentially do it for three months if would they be interested to do it just for three months that we know is going to be somewhat seasonal city manager or at least approach them because I don't want the whole year, especially during the summertime. That's what I'm scared about. I agree. Well, the RFP would define the season that we're looking for proposals to operate within these months, this number of days, these hours each week. But again, if we if we piggyback off of Dunedin, I think we're only going to catch a little piece of the season. I don't know if you'll get good data to know if next year you want to budget it in the budget process, like, let's go all in. Will we still get enough data to help us consider in the future for in-house, or maybe to move forward? Because I'll tell you what late February March is a busy time here in Tarpon Springs, even even April going up through Mother's Day. So if we can capture some of that and not be obligated throughout the rest of the months, I really like to push that RFP and see what those numbers come out, and then also help the city manager in seeing if we can do this as an in-house thing in the future, so that that's what I would like to see. Is that, okay, city manager or. Well, when you say RFP, that's a longer process. So that would be excuse me fall. Yeah. So we could piggyback right away just like on Dunedin if you you will have to bring that back for you to vote on it. Perfect. And I wouldn't mind doing that. I just want to try to see what, what can come up with this. And you see these business owners, we're here to say no, but these business owners are nodding their heads yes. So let's try to listen to them. Commissioner Eisner, your lights on. Last but not least. Okay. I just wanted to give you an idea. The scope of service for Dunedin is three vehicles. It's a great deal of ours. It's for 12 months. It's 12 hours in a single day. Three vehicles. I, as I said, compensation. The city shall pay a maximum amount of 18,000, but it's for 12 months at an annual cost of 219,000. So that's their contract. That's not our contract. So if we can get away with something that could be, I don't know, 30 to $50,000 for a couple of months and we could get this. The whole idea is not to do anything more than stick our feet in to see the temperature of the water, see if this works out for Tarpon Springs. If it works out for Tarpon Springs, we could continue it next year and expand on it. If it doesn't work out for Tarpon Springs, we could forget about it. And so you could get those numbers come back to us with a potential approval or denial at next BoCC meeting. You think? I believe so, okay. Yes, Commissioner Banther, your light's on. Five minutes. Yes, but this might be a middle ground. Again. This is not a bad idea. I want to make that clear. And this is nothing about. This is bad. I know it's two things. Well, maybe more. I think it's timing. We are near the end of season, not near. But by the time that that's what happened to. I don't like rushing things. I don't understand fully the rush. We got to maybe try and get the last two months of the season, and the cost is a concern. Now. I know we would be cheaper than than like than than like Dunedin, but we all know how this goes. I've seen this a hundred times from my time on the board. How we piggyback off things. Yes they will, they will discount it. But I also believe we might have a larger surface area to cover than like than like than than like Dunedin does. That might need to be considered too. I think this would be best brought back up in the next budget cycle. You know, I'm not saying we can't review things in the meantime. It's not like it's a bad idea and should never come back and come back, you know, come back before us. But personally, I don't see the need in rush to get this done for the last two months of the season. I would like to see this fully vetted and explored. Mayor, you brought up some good points of some alternatives. Possibly might be some like liability issues with that if we're operating ourselves. I don't know if that's the best idea, but I, I think this this would get a fair shake and a fair review in the next budget cycle, which is only a few months away. We're not talking, you know, we have to start this up in June, right? So that's what I'd be in support of. I'm not in support of rushing it back to catch the to catch the, the last the last two months of the season. I would be in support of hearing this in the in the appropriate manner and time frame and the budget cycles that start in June. Okay. Okay. Do we do we have direction I guess, or do we need a motion? I mean, I was hoping we could at least try it out or at least say yes to this. And you wanted to say no in two weeks from now, then say no. But I'd like to get some numbers out there. Go ahead, Commissioner Eisner. Okay, I said last but not least, but I got more. The only difference that I have with you, Commissioner, is the reason I personally want to push this is because we did have two hurricanes back to back. And I know I speak to storefront people all the time. They're all hurting. And if this could be the shot in the arm to regenerate and rejuvenate their business, I'd be willing to go for the 2 or 3 months just to see if we can get more people out there to spend money. And that's that's the only reason I'm pushing for it right now. Not for any other reason. Otherwise, I agree with you 100%. We could take our time. We could do what we have to do. But I'm just going to share this. SBA loans have not been there. FEMA has not been there to help these people. And that's our position is to try to help them. And if we can get this for 2 or 3 months or four months and even have our own people utilize this to some degree, I think it would help stimulate the business. That's what I say. Okay, so I see where we're at. I'm just going to make a motion as it stated, and we'll just see what goes from there. But I'm also include that. That it be brought to be brought at the next BOC session. That way it can be quick and hopefully 18 days, we can at least have some numbers to look at. So with that said, the chair will entertain a motion to approve RFP proposal for shuttle services. Or no, not an RFP, not RFP to approve with excuse me, the chair will entertain a motion to piggyback off the meeting contract on the shuttle services and be brought back with numbers at the next BOC regular session meeting. Second, no, you got. Nope. Oh, you want me to? You didn't make the move. He was entertaining. Oh. I'm sorry. Then I'll do the motion. I'm sorry. Is there a second? Pass the gavel, mayor, just so it comes back. To pass it that way. And you second it. Okay. Is there a second? I make a motion to move with the direction and piggyback off of the Dunedin shuttle service contract. And those numbers be brought back at the next BOC regular session meeting. To be made by Commissioner. You did you second it? Passed the gavel over the gavel. Okay. I'll second it then. It doesn't matter. We had a motion. Do you want to second the motion? I'll second it. Yes, I second it. Okay. Is there any any further discussion? If not, roll call. Commissioner Banther. Yes. Commissioner. DiDonato. No. Commissioner. Eisner. Yes. Vice chair. Yes, sure. Chair. Coleus. Yes. Thank you. All right. This concludes the special session agenda. We will now go to board and staff comments. Police Chief Young, which is none, or Major Mathis. All right. The city attorney. No. City clerk. No thank you. City manager. No. Commissioner Banther. No. Commissioner. DiNardo. No. Commissioner. Eisner. Nothing. Vice Mayor Giuliani's nothing. And I have no further comments. This concludes the special session. Meeting adjourned at 6:32 p.m. We're going to take a five minute break and start the regular session at 637. Thank you. All of the people together, you know, religion. Nice. I now call to order the regular session meeting of the Board of Commissioners of the City of Tarpon Springs on Tuesday, January 7th, 2025 at 6:42 p.m. City Clerk roll call, please. Mayor coleus here. Vice Mayor Collins here. Commissioner Eisner here. Commissioner DiDonato here. Commissioner Banther here. Thank you. Tonight's invocation will be given by Reverend Milton Smith. Tarpon Springs fire rescue chaplain. Please stand and remain standing for the Pledge of Allegiance. Let us pray. Father, we thank you for this night that you have allowed us to come together. Lord, we pray, Lord, for this Board of Commissioners and Mayor, we pray that you would just grant them the wisdom and knowledge and understanding the decisions they make. Lord, would be a positive impact upon all the citizens of Tarpon Springs. Those that come here to live, work and play and worship. And father, we pray, father, not only for them, we pray for the residents. We pray for the city staff, especially our first responders, our fire and police who are out there every day to protect us. We thank you. We ask you to bless this meeting tonight. In your precious name we pray. Amen, Amen, Amen. Pledge allegiance to the of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Okay, I have a few announcements. We're going to have. Item 16 will be heard at 730. Ordinance 202401 Land Development Code Amendment Amendment, article seven Heritage Preservation providing for creation of Neighborhood Conservation Overlay districts. And at the request of the applicant, I will be moving item 15 directly. Ordinance 2024-06 future Land Use map for property located at 42501 US highway 19 North. Application 220-02 Legislative Second reading right after the consent agenda. Now we're going to go to proclamations. The first proclamation is Doctor Martin Luther King Day. And we were going to have Reverend Milton Smith please come up, sir. The city of Tarpon Springs, Florida, proclamation. Whereas Doctor Martin Luther King devoted his life to the advancement of civil rights and public service, he believed in a nation of freedom and justice for all, and challenged all citizens to help build a more perfect union and live up to the purpose and potential of America. And whereas, celebrating Doctor King's life and spirit through community wide recognition and service on the holiday is an appropriate way to honor Doctor King, bringing our citizens together and strengthening our communities and nation. And whereas the city of Tarpon Springs joins the community celebration and observance of the holiday honoring Doctor Martin Luther King Junior, and Whereas each of us can and must contribute to making our communities better with increased opportunity for all of our citizens. And whereas the City of Tarpon Springs urges all people to recognize the life and works of Doctor Martin Luther King, Jr and apply his life and teachings of service to inspire others to serve and remember his spirit of community. Now, therefore, I, Panagiotis Kollias, by virtue of the authority vested in me as mayor of the City of Tarpon Springs, Florida, do hereby proclaim January 20th, 2025 as Doctor Martin Luther King Day Junior. Reverend Reverend Smith is the man, and he has to say a few words he doesn't have. Thank you. First of all, I thank God for the city of Tarpon Springs observing Doctor Martin Luther King Day. Thank you, mayor. Thank you, city commissioners. I do want to say that the Tarpon Springs community will have a celebration on Saturday, January the 18th. We will have a breakfast at 8 a.m. At First United Methodist Church. Afterwards, we would line up for the parade going down the streets of Tarpon Avenue. That was to kick off at 11:00, followed by a festival in Dorsett Park. So on behalf of the Doctor Martin Luther King event and Scholarship Foundation, we invite all the citizens, not not just a part, but all the citizens out on Saturday, January the 18th to celebrate Doctor Martin Luther King with us. Thank you, thank you. And the next proclamation we have State of Florida, Arbor Day. We have Miss Shannon Brewer, our city arborist, is going to come forward. This lady, believe it or not, she knows where every tree in Tarpon Springs is and she actually knows how many branches come off of them. And like, you know, just the number of leaves from each one. Two. It's fascinating. So here we go. City of Tarpon Springs, Florida. Proclamation. Whereas in 1872, J. Sterling Morton proposed to the Nebraska Board of Agriculture that a special day be set aside for the planting of trees. And whereas this holiday, called Arbor Day, was first observed with the planting of more than a million trees in Nebraska, and whereas Arbor Day is now observed throughout the nation and each state has adopted a state Arbor Day and the state of Florida has designated the third Friday of January to be observed as Arbor Day. And whereas trees can reduce the erosion of our precious topsoil by wind and water cut, heating and cooling costs, moderate the temperature, clean the air, produce life giving oxygen, and provide habitat for wildlife. And whereas trees are a renewable resource, giving us paper wood for our homes, fuel for our fires and countless other wood products. And whereas trees in our city increase property values, enhance the economic vitality and beautify our community. Now therefore, I, Panagiotis Kollias, by virtue of the authority vested in me as mayor of the City of Tarpon Springs, do hereby proclaim. Friday, January 17th, 2025, as State of Florida. Arbor day, let's give her a round of applause, ma'am. Please say a few words. Hello, mayor. Commissioners. City manager, I want to extend my heartfelt thanks for this and highlighting trees and environmental stewardship within Tarpon Springs. The municipal arborist like myself. And sometimes they're called community foresters. We have all teamed up this year to help celebrate virtually for our community. It's we are doing it Arbor Day across the Bay. I have fliers out in the lobby on the credenza on the back side. There's ways for you to celebrate. Make sure to scan the QR code and use all the hashtags on the back. Thank you again very much. Have a good evening. Thank you. Mr. We will now go to public comments on items that will not be discussed on tonight's agenda. Please state your name and address for the record, and you will be given four minutes to speak and two minutes to speak. If you are on zoom, are there any public comments? Hi David Ballard Geddis Jr I live on Georgia Avenue down the street in Palm Harbor. I'd like to make a couple comments in regard to the shuttle service in Dunedin. I believe it's called the Freebie shuttle service or the freebie. Little town, you know, golf cart, you know, thing or whatever they have down there. Walt Disney has had a shuttle service for 50 years, and Busch Gardens has a shuttle service, and Key West has a Conch Train shuttle service, and Saint Augustine has the ghost tours as a shuttle service. My question with the freebie shuttle service in Dunedin is who financed the freebie shuttle service? And was the freebie financed by attorney Freeborn in Dunedin? And where did Freeborn get such cash for the freebie service to start up that business with? And how do you know that Freeborn isn't using money that he embezzled? Freeborn and my mother are responsible for a forgery of my father's will, and I would question doing business with that. Should that be the case? I have a very serious issue with Freeborn dealing with my father's will, and if he has any financing of that freebie shuttle shuttle service, I would refrain from doing business with that. Thank you. Thank you. Good evening. Katie Taylor, 1991 Douglas Lane, Tarpon Springs. On September 16th, 2022, I was elected by the members of Rural Cemetery Association as president of that organization. And until further notice, I'd like for anything that's happening with roles with the city that could be notified. I greatly appreciate that because on on December the 19th, a couple of weeks ago, I was in the cemetery for a burial service, and I seen two people walking through the cemetery and they were with Rachel Kangas, and she was with F Pan with the University of South Florida. She was meeting two city officials, two city employees at Rose Cemetery to discuss the hurricane damage that was done in Rural Cemetery. One was from Arcadia and one was from city of Tarpon Springs. Neither one of those, although they very qualified in their positions, one with similar with Arcadia. I'm sure she could have answered all questions if Pan needed to know about about Arcadia. I would have liked to have been notified if they were going to ask questions about Rose. So that's why I'm asking here tonight. That City Manager, Rudd, if any city departments until further notice, until you're notified that I'm not that that I could be notified when somebody want to go into Rose Cemetery on that level and ask any questions. I would greatly appreciate that. That second thing was, I know it's old news now. We got to keep moving forward. That million dollar deal still bothering me with the with the land thing. Commissioner Eisner, at the last meeting, you said you were something to the effect that you were doing the will of the people by voting for that, for the city to purchase, pay $5.2 million for a piece of property that was only valued at 3.2375, something like that. If some people at my division that I complex that I live in, they get a master water bill. So we weren't notified individually. I spoke to the city clerk. She willingly explained to me how that worked. So all I'm asking now, maybe she can help us out with the question, because all I'm asking now is if the city purchased any property of that nature in the future, that the 250 words that y'all can put on, that you can only put on the ballot, the referendum, have a whole page. Can't put that on the ballot. You have public meetings, people not attending. It's like they don't attend some of these meetings on the ballot in that 250 words, can I ask for four words property value and sale price. That's all the citizens need to know, because people said that if they had a scene that big a difference in the price, they would have voted no. Commissioner Benton was right on point last time, last meeting when he said some people that checked the box, they don't read it. They just check the box because they're trusting in y'all. So basically, I'm asking for in the future, maybe Irene can tell us that. Can the verbiage on the ballot have specific price, but market price value and the price that y'all want to purchase this property for on the on the next ballot, unless you can give me give them an opportunity to answer me on that one third and not final, but not least on a just a Joshua Glover here with the with the with the mayor. You asked me the last time when I was here, when I asked you can you can your salary be deferred to the employees of the city to enhance their maybe get them promotions? You told me to ask. Ask the financial director that question. I need your advice. I ask him, and yes, you can defer your your salary. So with that, I don't know. Irene. Can you give her opportunity to answer me on the. Can those four words be put on the ballot? Market price, sale price. Miss Taylor, don't go nowhere. We're going to have the city clerk address you real fast, and I'll be able to address you myself, too. Okay. Go ahead. So, board I would. I miss Taylor contacted me about a week ago. What I explained her question was, was the appraisal value on the referendum. And I explained to Miss Taylor by Florida statute, the title, the question title could only be 15 words and the body could only be 75 words, and that the appraised value was not in the actual referendum question. However, it was in the ordinance that had two public hearings was advertised, and also in the flier that went out. She said she did not receive it because she's under a master meter. I did check to make sure that her subdivision was getting not just an E bill, but a hard copy as well, where it would have contained it in both. And she explained to me that she was going to check with her property manager to see if that was distributed to the residents in that area. Did the did the verbiage have the price of the property and the value of it? The referendum had the price of the property. It did not have the value. There was two appraisals. Sometimes there could be more than two appraisals. That was in the flier and also in the ordinance, which is explains about the property and all the additional language that did have two public hearings and was publicly advertised. Thank you. And so I'll address you myself, Miss Taylor, because I want to be able to make myself very clear when 8700 votes are to approve something, as opposed to the 4200, the easiest thing to do as a commissioner or board member is listen to what they say. And that's why, after we had our discussion, we were able to get that approval. So listen to The Residents is one of our biggest decisions. I personally didn't even support the item, but I made sure I brought it forward, that it did get voted on and the bonding did get fulfilled. And I'm happy I passed the gavel over or we would have lost out on $535,000, plus all the attorney fees and legal fees set up to get that in order. Now we have a property in place that secures the future of our city. And as far as the commission, when we were trying to increase the salaries, the reason why I'm trying to do that is to get more people involved. Nobody's going to do this job at the price it pays. Now, $8,000 for the commissioners and $12,000 for the commissioners. And no, I'm not going to give up my money. I've actually sacrificed about 30, $40,000 of my own salaries in which I'm making commissions and sales to come do this job, because I love the city. I'm learning so much for it. And so that's why in the future, I want future board members to get paid more. Because honestly, we're not going to get anybody involved at this current rate that we're at. So I'm very proud of the motions I make and what I continue to do up here. And my job is to get everyone involved, no matter what, and not just to keep this to the limited people, because this isn't a hard job. It's a time consuming job. But that's the message. I'm going to get out to everybody to get more people involved. So thank you, Miss Taylor, and that that's your your time is up, ma'am. No, I didn't hear the buzzer yet. So that that your time is up. Ma'am, I thought I hear a buzzer when my time was up. And I apologize for addressing me out. Thank you. Next public comment. Are there any other public comments? Hello Nisha, I live in Tarpon Springs for 4 or 3 years. You need my address, please. Okay. 817 Lincoln Avenue. Thank you ma'am, I come to you to address an issue that happened on December the 25th, which is Christmas. Okay. Approximately 655. There were a lot of police officers, Tarpon Springs and the Pinellas County Sheriff's Department there to shut down the park. The first, we didn't know that the park closed at 7:00. The city apparently took the signs down. It used to be from 6 a.m. To 10 p.m, so we wasn't aware that the park closed at 7 p.m. Another issue as the officers was walking down the road with their batons and guns, addressing kids go find your parents before I take them to jail and I will tow your car. Now, this is a Christmas event that didn't happen since for three years that I've been in Tarpon Springs, I can understand stuff may happen after hours, but during the times of maybe 1:00 pm and 9:00, everybody is sitting out there enjoying each other time, you know, getting to reconnect with family members and things like that. Yes, there are four wheelers, kids riding in the street with bicycles. You know, as a community, we watch out for that. We try not to have any incidents occur. However, this incident where sheriffs came out and the Tarpon Springs police came out threatened to tow our cars, scaring the kids was unacceptable. A lot of kids attend cops and kids, so how do they go up there and trust the cops when it's police officers saying go find your parents or your parents will go to jail for trespassing. Trespassing where we don't have any signs. We didn't know that the park closed at 7 p.m. And they could address the situation in a better manner. And then just basically just harassing us for no apparent reason wasn't no threat out. There wasn't no violence. Everybody was sitting out there having a good old time. So I would like to bring that to the Tarpon Springs Board commissioner and the Tarpon Springs Police Department. I'm not sure if y'all can talk to the Pinellas County Sheriff's Department, but it was unacceptable for the community to trust the police when it wasn't anything going on. That's it. Thank you ma'am. Mayor Oakes, do you have to comment on that or Major Mathis? Yeah, absolutely. Major. Absolutely does. Let me do this. I want to hear the rest of the residents who want to speak to this first, and then I'll address at the end. Is that okay? Sure. Next speaker, please. Hello. My name is Helena Thomas, 523 East Morgan Street. I'm just piggybacking off of what Nisha said about. The patrolling of the Martin Luther King or the Citizens Alliance community and the over patrolling. Okay, I just want to know under what pretense were the sheriffs called and under? For what reason? For what reason were they called? And to storm the park in that manner in which they did so, like I said, I've been in this community all my life, never seen anything like it before normally. So just to give a little background, Christmas time is like a family reunion. It's a bonding time. It's a time where we get together, we celebrate in our way, we have fun, camaraderie, we cheer each other on happy holidays, whatnot and so forth and so on. The kids have a chance to come out and enjoy each other's presence, and it was just very disheartening to see the sheriff's. I would, I would say over at least 50 police officers walked down the street guns and, you know, guns in tow, batons out. And there was no rioting. There was nothing happening at that time. I'm not sure if somebody called about something else aside from what was going on actually in the park setting, like the four wheelers and stuff like that has nothing to do with the civil, with the citizens at a public park. Okay. So that should be addressed separately, right? Loud music or whatever that could be addressed separately. But to tell everyone they had to leave a public park, go home or they will be arrested was to me, that wasn't okay. I felt like if we are trying to bridge a gap in and build relationships between law enforcement and the citizens in the in the Martin Luther in the Citizens Alliance community, that was not the way to go about it. So I feel like some questions need to be answered as far as why that happened and to move forward from that. How do we build a relationship moving forward to where that doesn't happen again and where the children are not? For example, my daughter, she she attends cops and kids. She was she was terrified because she had not experienced anything like that before, which I was like, you know, and she only has one perspective. She goes to cops and kids. She loves it, and she interacts with the people that are there. But for that to happen and for her to feel that way, I was like, this is not cool. And what was the reason? So that's that was all I needed to say. Thank you, Miss Thomas. Next speaker, please. Are you doing okay? 817 Lincoln Avenue. I come here to piggyback off of what they say. Also, Miss Martin, can you try to pull the microphone just a little bit closer to me? Yes. I mean, I'm here to piggyback off what she said also. Plus the tennis courts. What's going on with the tennis courts at the park? I noticed they are down, you know, so I was just wondering what's going on with the tennis courts. And the net is down. So that's it. Thank you. Thank you ma'am. Yeah. Are there any other public comments on any items? Not on tonight's agenda. Mayor, did you want me to respond to that? Oh, yes. After public comment. It's up to you if nobody else wants to speak on that issue relating to the December 25th or New Year, New Year's, I'm going to have major address it. All right. So you guys got one more coming, okay? Yes. But please, if it's a situation with that, let's let's please get your comments and we'll have major address it afterwards. Thank you. Good evening. Joanne Murray, 817 Lincoln Avenue, Tarpon Springs. I'd like to address the situation that happened at the park on the 25th. Really, it was unacceptable for the sheriff's department to and Tarpon Police Department to come in and simply harass the neighborhood. It was unacceptable. And we need an answer towards that. Also, there was a Christmas party, no New Year's party, and I was coming home at 12:00 from church. We had a midnight service and I couldn't get into my home down the road. As I said, in front of on Lincoln Avenue and Harrison Street for about ten minutes before I was able to drive down my road, one of Tarpon Police Department, they didn't stop me, but he looked at me and said, where are you going? I said, I live here. Well, we're just trying to get people off the street, move people around off the street. You know, I can understand that. But my understanding these people had a permit and police department also monitor the city. They had the sheriff's department blocking the roads. It was very hard for me to get into. I had to go all around the neighborhood to find a place to get into my to my home. Because of the sheriff's department had all the roads blocked off where no one could come in and no one can go out. And I just don't understand, you know, in our neighborhood, why do we have to be harassed? We feel violated because listen, to my knowledge, there was nothing really going on at either one of these events. It was a lot of crowd crowd control. I can understand the crowd control, but let's get real. Let's be crowd control. Should be not over excessive. So we need to make sure that the citizens in Tarpon Springs feel safe, feel wanted. Because sometimes we don't even feel wanted in our own neighborhood. So, you know, it's just I think that we as a as a citizen in Tarpon Springs, we need to all come together and think about what we do to violate others rights in this city. Thank you. Thank you. Ma'am. Major, would you like to make a few comments? So yes, I appreciate everybody's comments as it pertains to what happened on December 25th, but I will be remiss if I didn't say that there were some things that were going on that shouldn't have been going on, and it's our job as a police department to protect city property, city assets. Four wheelers and stuff on the playgrounds and stuff like that. It's not acceptable. It damages city property. The taxpayers have to pay to replace those things, and it's our job to replace it. There was some illegal like if we say that there's no illegal activity that were happening, people drinking at the park, smoking at the park and everything else. I drove through it, I saw it coming back. So we're not going to pretend that there is nothing going on now. Are there things that we could have done better? Absolutely. Are there things that we could do better? We could always learn from something? Absolutely. But to sit there and to say that we did that, there was nothing going on, I don't think is very fair as it pertains to other events. I've reached out to several people that are here. I've reached out to the chief. We are setting up a meeting to meet with these these individuals involved. I don't know who all wants to be involved, but I did talk to the chief to find something on the calendar to speak about how you felt and things we could do better, and how we can work together as a community. That is something that I spoke to him about this morning, and I think with some of the people I spoke with today and even you guys included here, I think we can move forward. But I also think that the police department has been a very, you know, good partner in the community and collaborating with other things as well. So I think we need to acknowledge where we've done some things right. We need to acknowledge where we can get better on both ends. And I think we can do a great job moving forward. I'm not dismissing what your child felt. I can't dismiss that. But I can tell you I use this analogy in football. I can win a game 52 to nothing and find out that I had a false start here or an offsides there, and I can get better. But we have to acknowledge on both ends where things can get better and how we can quell these things, and how we can move forward. And Mr. Major, was there a permit in place? There was no permit in place for any event that we had. And so my only suggestion is that in the future, come together as a community and create a nonprofit organization to have maybe, you know, someone willing to put in a permit application. I don't see why I wouldn't support a permit application on a couple of those special days, but there have been rumors that outsiders do come, and it's sort of, you know, it's not only just the neighborhood, but a lot of outsiders come. So, you know, I believe if there was a permit in place for, for you all to have this control a little bit more, you know, good things can happen. You can have a security. I wouldn't mind having a, you know, late for a special permit on a couple of those nights. And it's really not that much to set up. So I think it's a it's a good way to be able to get your, you know, get the celebrations in place, but have a community understanding with everybody. And that way it you know, we want we want, we want to look out after you at the end of the day. Let me just add go ahead. Everybody that spoke today, I have not only a professional but a personal relationship with. And it my only goal, and I know I'm speaking on behalf of the chief, is to make sure that this police department is a fair and equitable partner with every community in this city. And I think the chief stands on that and echoes that. But I think we can do a lot to work together and do things. And I think there's a lot that we can work together and improve on. But it takes communication. It takes accountability on all sides, and it takes us all to be a better Tarpon Springs. It's not just a police department or a community. It takes a group and a partnership and a joint effort. So I want to keep that in mind that I'm not going to say our partnership is perfect, but I do think a lot of people in here have called me for things and asked for help with the PD, and I think we do our best to reach out and help, but I do think we can get better. I wasn't there, I don't know the ops plan, I don't know, I can't answer your question when it comes to why the SRO was called. Whoever asked that one. But we will have a meeting and we'll find out what those things were for the tennis courts. Yeah, those nets were fixed. I watched them get fixed, and then they were broken the next day that I went to cops and kids, and then I called Tom function back and fixed them again about a week ago before I went on vacation. And I don't know how they got broken again. So I don't know who's tearing down the nets or what happened, but I do know that they were fixed at least twice that I know about. But if they're broken again, I can get with staff here. Somebody we can get those nets fixed. Yep. And I'd be willing to support a permit of some type. So that way the celebrations are going. And just reach out to me. I'll get you copies of other permit special events that really they're not too strenuous to fill out. But as long as you have your ducks in a row, things can work out. Good for it. So thank you, sir. Thank you. My name is Mike Bryant. I'm owner of wine at the docks, 850 Dodecanese. And also in 306 Monroe Street in Dunedin. So I have two businesses in two separate towns that I have some issues on that I want to talk about this. But first, right now I'm just going to discuss. Thank you. What happened in the last two storms, the professionalism of the public works, how they clean the street. We focused on our businesses to get up and running. The police chief was there every day going door to door. The police, the fire department meant a lot to us. As business owners on the docks. There's some issues here that we'll talk later about that will help the docks. We're hurting. It's slow, but I just want to recognize the city of Tarpon and how professional every department that came down to help us to get businesses back. So thank you. Thank you sir. Are there any other public comments? It are there any zoom comments? Please raise your hand and you'll be allowed into talk. And we do not have any raised hands at this time. Okay. Please state your name and address. For the record. My name is Mason Murray and my address is 510 Triplett Street, Tarpon Springs, Florida. 34689. Yes, ma'am. Thank you. Good afternoon. Okay, so you're the chief? No, I'm the mayor. Only until April. Who's the chief? Oh, I'm sitting in on behalf of the chief. Oh, okay. So what I'm hearing is we got to put a permit in to have a good time in our neighborhood. Ma'am, a lot of events that happen have to have special permits. When there's hundreds of people out having a good time together. I'm telling you, it's a very. I'm not going back and forth. I'm telling you, there's an avenue and a source. It's not that hard to go through it to obtain it. It costs you a little bit of money up front. Having communication with this police department and some great things would happen. But that's all I'm going to say for now. If you can please get your public comments and you'd be more. You have 3.5 minutes. You can say whatever you want, ma'am. So when you and your neighbors get together and have a good time, do y'all put in a permit? Just asking. Three minutes. I can't remember the last time I had a party in public streets by the hundreds, in which I'm sorry. If you're asking about me in my neighborhood, I live on the west side of town. I haven't had a party with hundreds of people in the streets, so mama, I can't really relate to that. So like I said, I'm not going to go back and forth with you. You got three minutes and 10s to get your comments out, but I'm not answering like two minutes left. So. We live to all high life. So in order for us to all get together, our kids, our grandkids, we get together on that those certain days. So for us to get together, we gotta let y'all know. That. All right, I come in peace, but you're going to see my face because I love my city. And I'll put it to you like this. When there are events at Craig Park and there are events at the Sponge Docks, and there are events over at the second Saturdays, those are all special permits, and there are two page applications with very simple answers. And as you obtain an insurance policy and you can show in goodwill that, you know, these events can be put in place, you know, the board will consider it. And so, you know, it's not an event. It's a get together with family and friends. It's okay, I'm out. But, ma'am, when they take on the whole street and you can't walk through the street, y'all on every street, they all take up every street around here. I live on the next block. I can't even park on my street because y'all got the whole street part from Tarpon Avenue all the way over here, past the over to where you got, you know, the little, little game you got going, pickleball. You know what I'm saying? Don't nobody complain about that. I see about two officers all night. I hear loud music on my street all night from the clubs down the street. I don't call the cops. They enjoying themselves. I just want to know why we can't get that same piece. Ain't nobody getting killed. Ain't nobody hurting nobody. And when they get to that, I'm sure he'll be somewhere close. And I'm sure I'm not on my minutes. Thank you. Ma'am, are there any other public comments? And we've already gone online, so now we're going to go to consent Agenda. We're going to go to item three which is award file award RFP number 250046-P-JL request for proposals RFP compensation and Rate study and item for award file number 250014. Dash b dash p h. Urban forest Management plan. Commissioners, are there any items you would like to pull? Are there any public comments on the consent agenda? Items three and four. The chair will entertain a motion to approve consent agenda items three and four. So moved. I need a second, second second. There are no further comments or discussion. Roll call please. Commissioner. Panther. Yes. Commissioner. Donato. Yes. Yes. Vice mayor Giuliani's. Yes. Mayor. Yes. Yes. We are now going to the business items of the day, formerly known as Special Consent Agenda items. Then we have item five is discussion and direction of revising the rules of procedure for the Board of Commissioners. Oh excuse me. Yes. Because we're going to get through that real fast. We're actually going to do item 15. Which is ordinance 202406. Future land use map amendment for property located at 42501 US highway 19 North. Application 22-02 Legislative Second Reading. Miss Vincent or City Attorney? Can you read the title, please? Yes, sir. This is an ordinance of the City of Tarpon Springs, Florida, amending the future land use map of the City of Tarpon Springs, Florida for a portion of the 64.17 acres more or less of real property located at 42501 US highway 19 North on the east side of US highway 19 North, that portion being 36.64 acres, more or less in size from future land use map designations. Residential office. General. Commercial general and preservation to future land use map designation. Recreation. Open space and preservation providing for findings and providing for effective date. Thank you. We are now. This is legislative, Miss Vincent. Thank you. Good evening, Mayor and commissioners. This is ordinance 2020 4-06. This is a future land use map amendment associated with the project, known as the Enclosed Harbor Project on US 19. This is second reading of this ordinance. It was approved on first reading several months ago, and then the associated county wide land use map had to go through the county wide process, and that was also recently completed and approved. So this is back before you for second reading. And essentially what this land use map amendment does is it puts a significant portion of this property into the designations of recreation, open space, and officially adjust the boundary on the preservation space to match reality of what's on the ground at the wetlands. So there's been no changes submitted for consideration since the first reading. The staff recommendation is to approve this as it's presented, and I would enter all the agenda staff reports attached to the agenda and into the official record. Thank you. Are there any public comments on this item? Good evening, Mayor and Commissioners. Cindy Trapani, 128 East Tarpon Avenue. For the applicant, the Morgan Group. Just be very brief, but just to confirm what you all have done before at your hearing in in September, what this does is take 14.5 acres of uplands, upland habitat and take them to the recreation open space plan category, which means no residential development will ever be allowed to occur on that 14.5 acres. The second thing it does, as Renee mentioned, is recognize the 22 acres of wetlands that are throughout the site. That's based on the Swiftmud approval of the wetland line. And again, no development would occur in the wetlands, of course, because they will all be designated as preservation. So I think and also this this was a requirement of our site plan approval to submit this application. And we're grateful that the commission approved it in September. And it got unanimous approval at both Forward Pinellas and the countywide planning authority just last month, in December. We respectfully request your approval and final approval tonight, and thank you very much. I'll be happy to answer any questions. Thank you, ma'am, we'll let public comments. And if the applicant you need to come up again we'll ask you to come up. Thank you. Can I just say to no one said it tonight, but I just want to congratulate the city, the church, police department, the fire department. Y'all did a great job for epiphany. Where I sat, it was it was seamless. It was flawless. And it was a beautiful day for the for the city. Thank you. There was a very beautiful picture from your dock over there that's been surfacing. So yes. Are there any other public comments on this item? Thank you. Mayor Sir David Ballard, get his junior Georgia Avenue, Palm Harbor. I balk at anything Swiftmud has been doing over the last 50 years from the Resource Act of 1972 up to the present time. Today, all of our wetlands have been mitigated, excavated, redefined in order to suit development practices. The eco destabilization that's taking place in this state is horrid, for crying out loud. Gopher turtles, rattlesnakes, birds on the beach. There's no fiddler crabs left on any of the coastline here. Locally, we have to a responsibility to maintain some sort of eco establishment here for the earth itself. Can't we at least preserve some sort of coastal habitat? That's all riparian wetlands in my mind. And the amount of devastation that's taken place here to the graces of God himself, have been appalling. Thank you, thank you. Are there any other public comments on this item? I t are there any zoom comments online would like to make a public comment on this item. Please raise your hand and you'll be allowed into talk. And we do not have any raised hands at this time. Thank you. Does the applicant have anything else they want to say after the public comments? Thank you mayor. Again, Cindy Trapani for the applicant, the Morgan Group. I'm just to clarify the record. This entire site had about 20, has about 22.5 acres of wetlands that was that was delineated by swiftmud only less than a half an acre on the entire site is going to have any mitigation on it. And so, you know, 99% of the wetlands on this site are being preserved not just by the site plan that's been previously approved by this plan amendment that recognizes it, and by the Swiftmud permit permitting process, and is all y'all know, Swiftmud is the only entity that regulates wetlands in this area. So again, we have a very, very, very small mitigation of wetlands on this site. The smallest I've seen in any project I've done in my 45 years in the business. Thank you so much. Thank you ma'am. If there are no commissioners, are there any commissioner comments on this item before a motion is made? Okay. Seeing none, the chair will entertain a motion to approve ordinance 202406 future Land Use Map amendment for property located at 42501 US highway 19 North. Application 22-02. So moved. Second. There are no further comments or discussion. Roll call please. Mr. Banther. Yes, Commissioner DiDonato. Yes. Commissioner Eisner. No. Vice Mayor. Yes, mayor. Yes, yes. All right. We are now since 731. We're going to item 16, ordinance 202401 Land Development Code amendment amending article seven heritage preservation and providing for creation of Neighborhood Conservation overlay districts. Application 20 2-112 Legislativ, first Reading and City Attorney. Can you please read the title? Yes, sir. This is an ordinance of the city of Tarpon Springs, Florida, amending the City of Tarpon Springs. Code of ordinances. Appendix A comprehensive Zoning and Land Development Code. Article seven heritage Preservation and Establishing standards and processes for the creation of Neighborhood Conservation overlay districts. Providing for severability. Providing for inclusion in the Code of Ordinances of the City of Tarpon Springs, Florida. And providing for the effective date of this ordinance. Thank you. Do we have any public comments on this item? I see? Are there any zoom comments on online? Has a public comment on this item. Please raise your hand and you'll be allowed into talk. I do not have any raised hands at this time. Miss Vincent, can you give us a brief overview of this item, please? Certainly. This is an ordinance amending the Land Development Code that we've been working on, on and off, actually, for a couple of years. And the final iteration of this kind of arise arises out of the Greektown plan that was recently completed, whereby we were really looking for a mechanism to provide for preservation of historic properties that may not rise to the level of a full blown historic district. And so what what's before you tonight? And this has gone through several iterations over time, basically using the same process that you would to establish an historic district, but it allows you to establish what we're calling a neighborhood conservation overlay. And, you know, the intent is to provide kind of a preservation light, if you will, district that, you know, through the through the approval process, you would determine, you know, the community that where it would be in place would determine what they actually want to regulate. Is it just demolition? Is it new construction? So it's provides some flexibility and it provides a mechanism to establish this, you know, kind of an additional tool for preservation throughout the city. It is intended to be, you know, neighborhood driven, if you will, there there has been some, you know, input back and forth from, you know, stakeholders through the process. You know, I think one of the big discussion points that I would like to get direction from on the board tonight prior to second reading, if this moves forward through first, is the question of, you know, how much demonstrated support from the affected landowners or property owners should be required to establish a conservation overlay or historic district for that matter. Throughout a lot of the Greektown plan and working with, you know, with the folks that were interested, there was a, you know, there should be a significant portion of the of whatever that would be, would, you know, property owners in support of something if you're establishing regulations that are going to impact those properties. So we did include a 51% threshold for and it's written a couple of different ways in two different sections. We can certainly make that consistent. But, you know, demonstration of support from at least 51% of the landowners or the land area of the district in order to establish a new, you know, a conservation overlay or as amended, in historic district. So I think that is the big kind of question mark that I would like some input on. It's in the ordinance as it's proposed. Now, I don't know that, you know, that that would be the one thing that we've consistently received input on. And I have people on, you know, you've heard it from on both sides that, yes, you absolutely should have that kind of demonstration or no, that's really impractical. So but again, this does not establish any neighborhood conservation overlay any way, anywhere. This is just a tool that we're putting into the ordinance that we can take advantage of. If there's community interest in the future. I'll if you have specific questions, I'll be happy to answer them. There's there are a lot of other amendments in the entire section for historic preservation and the Land Development Code that's updating it with current terms and things like that. But the significant change is the introduction of the neighborhood Conservation overlay and the 51% threshold, if you will. Thank you, Miss Vincent. And before we go to commissioner comments or questions, we have one email that needs to be read into the record. City clerk, can you please read it? Yes. Thank you. This is from Tina Bucuvalas, 115 Athens Street. As I previously noted and drafted, the Land Development Code Amendment Neighborhood Conservation Overlay District is an excellent effort, but several places would benefit from minor revisions. In some cases, this would reinstate items that appeared on the 424 draft. They deserve further scrutiny because they provide extra protections, allow more mechanisms for action, or otherwise better serve the community. While I have a number of comments, I believe that the most important is to ensure that exterior building renovations, in addition to new construction and demolition, are consistent with district identity. Although the staff thinks that the draft language in 106.01 B will cover renovations, I do not agree that the current language covers that intent. In fact, it implies that only new construction is covered and thus the renovations are not covered. There will be future problems if this is not explicitly stated as a possibility in the ordinance. Each NCO can decide which exterior renovations are relevant, but this must be explicit possibility. Also, according to the National Register and State of Florida, the name of the existing district is. The Greektown Historic District is a regular historic district with an added overlay of significance in terms of traditional culture. In the future, I hope to see the official name. It's not difficult to get this right. Why has this always been treated as a problem? Thank you for attention to this matter. Thank you. City Clerk Commissioner Eisner. Thank you, mayor. Just a couple of things in this. So first of all, when we do a overlay like this, is it normal for 51% or do we have like the filibusters where you need 60% of the, the, the 51%, you know, simple majority, right. There's no this is a this is new. So it's I mean, I hate to use the term, it's somewhat arbitrary, but I was looking for a bright line because that's what I was hearing during the public meetings with the Greektown plan, is that if this is going to be imposed on the property owners, then they need to have a say. And so we established this threshold idea of minimum of 51 show of support from, you know, at least a majority of the property owners. At some point, the Planning and Zoning Board was very adamant that that be included when this went through there, their process, the Heritage Preservation Board was less enthusiastic about the 51%, and they did want it to at least be consistent, you know, whether it's 51% of the property owners or 51% of the land area. Just be consistent with those two sections. So it you know, I think you can achieve the same outcome without putting that threshold in there. Frankly, it's going to go through a process and ultimately it's going to have to be approved by the board of Commissioners. I think you're going to hear from people either way, that and have a good sense of whether or not something should be adopted or not, whether that 51% is there or not. So a better question, more in tune to what do other locations do? Some some have a threshold, some do not. Yeah, I've seen it both ways. What is the benefit to having the threshold versus the. It gives you a bright line you know. So but if you're comfortable in working in the gray which you do a lot, then I don't know that that bright line is necessary. Now with this 51% B for each overlay because there is a multiple, would we have a 51% on the whole overlay, or would it be the 51% per overlay? It would be. So it would be for whatever the area seeking the overlay. So whatever that boundary is, however it gets established, the 51% would apply within that specific area, not because the people that were putting people that are being affected, right. But the people that put their comments in all were speaking about their particular area of choice. I suppose. Yes. You know, I mean, I don't want to mention names, but I read all the names of who said what, and it varies from area to area. Exactly. Yes. Whichever area is under their auspices is what they were more concerned. They didn't want that area to control their area. I mean, I, I think, you know, as I've and I've gone through several iterations of this, you know, and the thought process is, you know, I think that because of the public process that one has to go through to establish this, and there's a lot of public hearings, there's a lot of public notice. You're obviously going to collect public input if you're trying to establish this, you know, an overlay district like this, that the vetting will be there and you will have enough information to make a decision whether there's a 51% threshold or not. That's that's my thought process. But the Planning and Zoning Board was very adamant that they wanted it in. And so it's still in. Yeah, I saw that. The other thing is I don't know if we need the 51%. I just think we need the majority of what the people input. That's more. So how do you even figure out 51%. It's a well they recently did one. And down in Saint Petersburg, you know, a new district that was being established. And they literally did a postcard return postcard mail to all property owners and to get at least 50% of the property owners to acknowledge that they were in support. So there are mechanisms to do it. It's on staff really probably to do the work to do that. Right. But we have people here that even if you send that out, they go. They didn't get it. Exactly, exactly. So. Okay. I mean, I think we can accomplish it without it. That's that's where I'm leaning. I don't I don't want to set a guideline of 51%. The majority is what should rule period. So that's all I have. Mayor. Thank you, Miss Vincent. That the way this is all written and this is going to stop, how you know, there's a house that's recently built off of grand. How it looks, the way it looks. Is that going to prevent houses like that being built in the residential areas? And somewhat it could if there's an overlay in place. So keep in mind this doesn't establish an overlay anywhere. It's just establishing a process to have an overlay. Okay. So we still have to, you know, if the Greektown really wants to have their, you know, an overlay, then there's going to be another process to establish that. And that's what this this is setting up a process to allow it to happen. So each individual overlay will will be unique. And they will decide when we go through the process what they actually want to regulate. And yes, that probably would have been something that, you know, new construction would probably be, you know, something that would absolutely have to go through a review process and be looked at for compatibility with the neighborhood. Okay, okay. So when we start this process, I'm just hoping we have somewhat of some guidelines in the residential areas because I don't want, you know, places that look like fast food, homes popping up everywhere, so to speak. And I understand the docks, you know, the main strips and few of the business areas, property owners are going to have differences in opinions. But if we could just try to get them to work together and moving forward with this and understand our land use down there, certain things can shift around. I'm thinking we can go in a great direction. So that's all I have to say with that. And there are no further questions for staff of the chair will entertain a motion to approve item 16. Ordinance 202401. So moved. Second, there are no further comments. Roll call please. Commissioner. Oh, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Vice mayor comment. Yeah, I think the pursuit of the 51% is worthy of. Pursuing. I think that we should attempt. And to get that, I think it's important that, you know, this is this is an area of town that there's a lot of passion. And without attempting to do that, we're I believe it would be be remiss of us to do that. Also, the as we go through this process. You know, coming up with how we distinguish what that consistency of district identity is. And, you know, I'm going to be in favor of a completely separate board that oversees that, not the existing HPB. I think it should be stakeholders in that area that. Decide things that create the identity. So those are just comments of mine. It doesn't affect the motion or anything to that effect. But that's kind of where I'm at. But I do think that 51% is a noble between first and second reading. Let me I'm going to tweak the language a little bit and try to get the intent, but allow for some. Yeah. I mean, again, board discretion. Yeah. It could be you know, again, our, our, our intent is to get 51%, you know, acquiescence to this, this project. If, if we see that that attempt is futile and we're not getting either like the return on the postcards or whatever, then we obviously we go to plan B, but we shouldn't start in plan B, we should start in plan A, which is to get the, you know, to get every have a majority buy in. So we know when we do this that, you know, we have we have that. And I think that's important. So to I don't want to go down a rabbit hole here. But you brought up something that. So as this is written right now, we would continue to use Historic Preservation Board as the for anything that would require a certificate of appropriateness so that the way it's drafted now and that's that because I don't expect to have a lot of these. Right. But that could be that we can change that later. We can it can be changed later with ordinance change. Yes. I'm just telling you that's how I feel. Understand? Thank you. Okay. Thanks. Commissioner Eisner has his light back on. Okay. Thank you. Mayor. So I need to differ with what Commissioner Killian has just said. You, when you put out a survey like this, you shoot for 100%, period. You mean you want everybody. If you put a stipulation that you need 51%, 51%, then what do you do when it's 49%? What do you do when it's 40%? I know he changed by saying, you know, then we deal with it differently. Look, I'd love to have 75%. You know, the more the merrier. The more people that are on, on, on in agreement. It's always the best way to go. I just don't want to put a 51% ruling onto something when if we have an issue and we don't have that kind of response, which in most cases we don't have that. The one thing that we do hear here always, and I say when we hear here always, is people always saying, I didn't know, I didn't get it. You know, we have five phone numbers back there that sit there that anybody could contact us at any given point and get the answer that they want. But you have a situation where it's always, nobody told us if you're interested and you want to get a an answer, you can get the answer. So I don't want to put a 51% or a 60% or anything like that. I'd like to get as many people as I possibly can. So that's where I think I could tweak the language to bring everybody together on this. I'm good. Thank you. There are no further comments. Roll call please. Mr. Panther. Yes, Commissioner DiDonato. Yes, Commissioner Eisner. Yes. Vice mayor Koulianos. Yes. Mayor. Kalia. Yes? I'm going to ask this commission to take a ten minute break and start back at 8:00. And let's run through this whole meeting, okay? Thank you. Meeting in recess until 8 p.m. You know what the business side of us. We got five through ten. Yeah, five through 11 to 13. Quick. If you press the if you press that button, Commissioner, you're not you're not going to get there tonight. You know the airport. I got it I don't doubt I don't doubt it for one second Commissioner. Meeting back in session resumed at 8 p.m. We are now going to the business items formerly known as a special consent item five discussion and direction of Revising the Rules of Procedure for the Board of Commissioners. Mr. Dickman, can you take it from here? Yeah, I'm happy to. This is really a collaboration of myself and Charles and the city clerk of. You know, we're your charter officers responsible for helping you with these meetings. These are rules that you have adopted and are stated in here that you would review every year. We have taken my office has taken a kind of a first stab at it. And that's why you've got some red line changes in here. I've been reading it again, and there's probably a few more things that I would cover. It's a big topic. I won't lie to you. There's a lot of things in here. You know, there's some things in here that are for me anyway that I would definitely take a second look at, especially the part under quasi judicial proceedings and things like that. But we just wanted to get the dialog started. I know that the clerk had circulated on your on your desk here, an email where she documented some of the comments that were made, made when this was previously brought up. So I think what we're trying to do is try to get the keep the ball rolling so that we can get this back to you in a resolution format with underline and strikethrough at a, at a point in the future. Okay. Thank you. And the city clerk, did she pack it together? A lot of our discussion and comments from the last meeting. So I just wanted to state that. City manager, do you have any comments you want to make about this item? No, not currently mayor. Thank you, thank you. Are there any public comments on this item? It are there any zoom comments? If anyone online would like to make a public comment on this item, please raise your hand. You'll be allowed into talk. Not have any raised hands at this time. Thank you. The chair will entertain a motion or actually we're going to discussion direction. So, Commissioner banter, your light is on. Yes. Thank you. I wasn't on the commission when you all discussed this originally. And I reviewed the notes that we were given. And I think you guys have a lot of good points in here. You know, overall, I get torn when it comes to limiting public comment in the sense of the avenues that that that we that that we provide, such as zoom and emails being read into the record. But I definitely think if we keep those, which I think we should in some aspect, there needs to be some very strict guidance with it to, you know, I've had to utilize them in the past when this board was not as it is now. Others have as well. We had a comment, read it, read it, read it in the record tonight. I don't want to I don't think we should just say no more emails and no more zoom. But, you know, come to a consensus, perhaps find out what Dunedin and Dunedin, Clearwater and Oldsmar do to maybe just limit that. And that's not to limit residents speaking their mind that can't attend, but rather being respectful of staff time of the public's time in these chambers. And obviously we do want to limit any kind of personal attacks or insults. And I know that can be I was talking to the city clerk about it, and that can be hard because like, well, what's you know, we're we are, we are we are elected officials. We are supposed to have thick skin. You know, what's appropriate and what's not. So I'm open to some thoughts on that. But I do want to be careful that we don't just get rid of those items, but rather maybe put some more guidance in place. Thank you. Thank you, Commissioner banter. Commissioner Eisner. Thank you mayor. So I want to go down the list because I don't have too many here. But when you were vice mayor, I'm going to start with you. You had he had no zoom comments for proclamations, public comment, consent agenda. I think that's a good idea that just, you know, shouldn't be there. No emails should be read into the record for proclamations, public comments, consent, consent, agenda and do not single anyone out. We do have that in our rules of procedure that everything has to be addressed to the mayor. We have anonymous letters that come in and they're addressed as attacks. Those should not be read into the records. And that's under mine. I have I do not want to have emails read into the record that are fake emails. It just doesn't accomplish anything. So and then we have Commissioner Koulianos. He asked the city attorney to research if posters are allowed or appropriate at meetings, which I don't know if posters are inappropriate unless the posters are inappropriate. You know, the hard part is to determine what's appropriate and what's not. But I like the thought of it because I don't want to have any hate speech. I don't want to have anything that's derogatory to people. If it's just to give you a description of, you know, for clarification, I think a post is helpful if it's there to rip apart the commission or any one person, I don't think that's helpful. So that's where I would go with that. And I agree with his last comment. Public comment should only be conducive to conduct the business of the city if it's not something that's within the city, there's no need for us to hear it. There's nothing we could do to change it. I know it may be the person's legal right to announce what's going on in Dunedin or Saint Pete or anywhere else, but it doesn't have any effect on us. And there's no reason for anybody to say that. So if we change that, that would be another thing. Then we have Commissioner Donato's comment about 730 restriction. But I think we're dealing with that as it is now anyway. And then we had former Mayor Vatikiotis comments. So he also said he'd like to see the 7:30 p.m. Rest revoked as well. And he'd like to improve the process on public submissions to be read into the record, but also preventing fictitious names. ET cetera. Because this is that's just a game people send in. And he'd also like to see, you know, his comment was he'd like to see social media policies apply to advisory boards and charter officials as well. I think social media has gotten out of control. People feel they can post anything that comes to mind. It doesn't matter who they hurt, what they say things. At least we should carry that out, that we should not be posting anything that is negative or poorly written to hurt other people. So I don't have anything else here, and I'm just willing to listen to whatever anyone else wants to say. Those are my comments. Thank you. Are there any other commissioner comments? I'm just interested. If we talk about the rules and procedures, is that were we able to memorialize having once a year in which we get together and have staff to work towards appropriations for federal and state projects? And I know you guys have already been doing that, but did we get that memorialized in some type of writing that way for future boards to have? I'm not familiar with that legislative appropriation. As we talked, we talked about during like the charter, for example, which I wanted to be able to once a year us come together as a board and, and have staff reach out to legislators for appropriate for projects and, and all types of stuff, and which we started doing recently. And you guys have done a great job. But just do we get that in writing that once a year we're at a certain time we'll be looking at this, or is that just an ever going process for anything? It's just an annual process. There's a deadline for submission of the forms, and so our staff knows that where to look when those forms become available. And then they find the deadline to get them submitted. And then we schedule meetings with the legislators. It's a little different here. Other counties I've worked in. There's a called the legislative delegation where they come and all the cities show up in one meeting, and everybody walks up and pitches their projects. But here we met with them only one on one. And then we'll go to Tallahassee in the spring to advocate for our projects. But we don't have anything memorialized like you're talking about where it's become a it's a set policy that I'm familiar with. Yeah, I just want I just want to make sure that we're constantly doing that annually or however, you know, we're doing it that way. We can just try to get the most funds possible for any future projects. And like you guys have focused on a lot of projects that help storm situations like that arise from the hurricanes to, to be sent out to state and federal officials and stuff. So no, I appreciate it. Yes. Sorry. One one thing you're going to see in your CIP this year when we bring all the projects, capital projects to you, the funding sources, one of them will be legislative appropriations. So you'll have an idea like next year, we're going to ask for these projects and we'll and we'll talk about that. And you guys can give us direction. We think the legislature can help us with these three projects or these two projects for the for the next 5 to 10 years. And then every year we'll relook at it and maybe restrategize. So that'll be part of the capital improvement budget process. That's perfect. I think that's exactly what I was trying to say. So thank you. And as far as. I mean, I'm indifferent about social media posts and stuff, I really that's where I try to reach out to a lot of constituents. And, you know, most of the time they're good. And then sometimes they can have some, some other, you know, post. But at the same time, I just think we need to try to be able to communicate without, you know. Criticizing our fellow commissioners and in a, you know, in an unprofessional way or anything like that. But I'd like to be able to still have social media posts and be able to get information out there as needed without personal attacks. And so and as far as as we talked about with the zoom comments, I'd like to be able to have zoom comments for ordinances or hearings or some of those special aspects in which, you know, applications and some individuals may not be here, but for consent agenda items and the proclamations and everything else before, I necessarily don't think we need to have zoom comments. So that's the direction I'd like to see. There are no further comments. You I believe we have the discussion and direction to move forward. Will we need a motion? I believe this will be brought back in resolution form for approval with the corrections. Perfect. So if I can make a suggestion, if I may, I'll, I'll go ahead and take another. Based on some of the comments I've heard today, I'll my office can keep working on this and we'll confer will confer with Charles and the city clerk and get their comments on it. That way we feel like we've got it as clean as possible and bring it back in a resolution format. Thank you. So I'm just suggesting we don't need a vote or anything. We can just take steps if that's okay with the city manager and city clerk that we do it that way. Is that right? Okay, good. Thank you. Okay. We are now going on to item six approval to move Bahamian art pieces. And we have City Manager Charles Rudd for the presentation. Thank you. Mayor. As indicated in your packet, this is the two art pieces that we've talked about. We're requesting permission to move the one of the docks out to a more prominent location along the sidewalk between the oak trees. And then the other one is at the Union Academy property to move that we'd like to do is permission to move it. And then the public art committee will have a whole sort of a community input session on where exactly the community would like that. We've talked about putting it inside the Heritage Center or outside the Heritage Center in Craig Park, but get there, get community input on that. So I guess what we're looking for tonight is authorization to move both pieces with the one of the sponge docks moving between the oak trees and the one in the at the Union Academy Center, to be determined, but either in the Heritage Center or somewhere approximate to that. Thank you. Sir. Are there any public comments on this item? Hey, Tyler, 1991 Douglas Lane, Tarpon Springs. I am on the Art Council committee and I would like to see that part brought back to part of it, brought back to the Art Council to have a panel, because we had brought it up as part of our meeting to have a panel put together for the citizens to kind of give their input on where to relocate, the one that's on MLK and Gross Avenue, and very comfortable with the one that's at Dodecanese, in the back of the visitor's bureau, to be moved up where those two potted plants is right in the front on the street. But the main thing is the one that the MLK for the community to be involved in, where to relocate that at? Thank you. She's speaking for the council or personal? No. Yeah. Ma'am. Are you are you speaking on behalf of the public Art Committee or just personally? Probably personal, because I'm not I don't have permission to speak for the board right now. We haven't met. No. That's good. At the last meeting we did on the agenda, public agenda that was brought for we're going to discuss having a panel put together for that. But that part that's that's for us to go to the Art Council. But as personally. Yeah, I'd like to see both of them be moved. Thank you ma'am. Susan. Susan Swenson 327 Manatee Lane. I personally not speaking for any group or anything. I'm in favor of moving both of these. I did take a walk down and saw the one on the sponge docks, and I think it's so hidden that people really can't see it and understand it. And also the one, the other one to me, and I'm not an artist, should be moved. Looks like it's just a fence around a sewer system. And again, I don't want to hurt anybody, but I personally think they should both be moved. Thank you. Are there any other public comments? It are there any zoom comments? If anyone online would like to make a public comment on this item, please raise your hand and you'll be allowed into talk. And we do have a raised hand. Allow the person in. If you can state your name and address. For the record, Stephen Oliver, 2516 11th Street South, Saint Petersburg, Florida I'm the artist, the creator of the both of those sculptures. Can you hear me? Okay. Yes, we can hear you. Great. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, I wasn't consulted on this particular motion. I, I am aware of, of a desire to revisit the sites, which has been a long that's been going on for quite a while. As you may know, I, you know, and I, I just the. I don't know, there's a couple things here. One of them all let me just address first that I think some of the concern is coming from things that were not intended in the first place. And I'll focus on first the MLK, you know, that the Bruce Avenue corner, that corner was initially, as you all know, had a fence surrounding, you know, that retention area which serves for, you know, extra water off the parking lot. It's not a sewer system. There's a trash problem in the neighborhood that's completely separate. I've actually cleaned up that site, but the intent was to actually make something beautiful there. And what was growing there before actually included milkweed, which is attracting monarch butterflies. Now, the previous there's been a transition with the city pastor, city manager. He did a great job of grading around that sculpture to try to address issues with it. But the center of it really ought to be. I always imagine it. And I even emailed Mark, the former city manager, about making that a rain garden. So you have some beautiful inside. So I'll just address that because I think people are responding to the way that looks, and it really shouldn't look like that. I agree with that. But but on the other hand, you know, extensive work went into trying to, to, to site these two sculptures by not just me, but by public works and by, by, you know, our committee people and by the city past city manager and, and in both cases, I found the working collectively ended up making the sculptures and their placement better and more efficient. You know, in terms of that sponge dock site and the trees, I actually initially proposed between those trees, and I agree with that. I actually agree that that it wasn't the best spot. And I'll tell you some once I dug further into it. You know, those trees are a shallow root system, so disturbing those may actually really compromise the trees. Not only that, you've got a potential for those things to, to uproot anything planted at the base with a storm the sculptures really withstood. I've been out there recently. They really withstood all everything I designed them for phenomenally. Given there were three hurricanes that came through here or nearby. So. But in the bottom line is, I believe and I read the memo, the budget has not even any, any close to, to reality of what it would cost to move these sculptures. I really believe, truly believe it's in the best interest to leave these sculptures and improve the one on gross avenue and follow through on the plan of the of additional information around describing them, including the QR code that enables people to add more of their history. And so that and that's something that came out of the city, you know, arts department itself. So that's what I really you know, I think that the $1,000 is that won't actually won't even quite cover the insurance alone. Right. So just to get anybody to get involved in that. So I really believe there I mean, I think it's great for the community to come together and that that could always be expanded. I think that's part of the misgiving now that it wasn't, wasn't, wasn't enough of an effort. It was a tremendous effort, though initially. So in any case, I, I just think your the city's money and effort is better spent creating more work, more bringing more artists in while bringing the community together. And, and that's just what I just, I want I want to say so I would chime in. Thank you, Mr. Oliver. We appreciate you commenting in on this issue. Any other it zoom comments and we do not have any other raised hands at this time. Thank you, Commissioner Banther. Yes, thank you. Thank you again. I was on the board when this happened and I believe it was of course all with the best intentions. We have a volunteer art committee who are citizens that volunteer their time and I appreciate their, their, their input on this, but I'm kind of even more bothered now here hearing the artist's comments because they just seem out of touch. The one off of MLK, I think the site is extremely inappropriate. I, I don't and I'm from here my entire life. I don't see how you would choose a drainage ditch, a fence around a drainage ditch to be a memorial for the African American community that helped start this town, so I'm in full support of moving it where it goes to that's, you know, not mine to decide per se. I would like to hear the input of the public art committee and of the stakeholders involved. I just want to know, is this going to come back to us for, for like final approval as to the site, if that's your direction, I that would be a whole hearted direction. I want people more involved to, to decide where it goes, whether that's that, that's, that's, that's the museum a different place on MLK or in Craig Park. Totally cool with all of that. But Wendy, to not be around drainage ditches or anything like like like like that. And then the one at the docks is beautiful. But I think we all agree you can't see it unless you're right up against it. So I think we need to move that as well again with that one as well. I want both locations to be brought back to, to this board for, for final approval. All right. Thank you. Thank you. Commissioner. Commissioner Eisner. Yes. Thank you. So I'm in agreement to what Commissioner Banther just said. My only drawback on this whole thing. And I was glad to hear what Mr. Oliver had to say, because the one thing he didn't bring up, which is what I was hoping he didn't bring up, was that we didn't have the right to move his art. He didn't bring that up. And I'm I'm that's the only thing I, I have no issues moving this and making things fine. What I do have an issue is I don't want to get into any sort of legal jargon where we had no right to move something. So before we do move this, I just want to make sure that we're legal in what we're doing because I do not want to get a lawsuit from Mr. Oliver or anybody for that matter. But as I said, I mean, I would not have put it over a drainage ditch. I was not involved. I was on the board, but I was not involved in where it goes. It's not my forte. Art is not my forte, and I know better to stay out of that. And I know there was a whole lot of back and forth with the sponge docks. So is it in a place that you can see if you're walking to the water, but it's all the way in the back? You know, if it makes everybody happy, where it's more, you know, I'd rather see it, where people can acknowledge it and appreciate it. But we just got to make sure that we do this legally, that's all. So that's my only take before I go to Commissioner DiDonato, city attorney. You're like him on. Yeah, I just I kind of anticipated this question, but. This is under our contract that was done in 2022. And in my opinion, while the there is an exhibit that describes where the art will be placed, this artist was paid for. It's his art. And there was a transfer of rights to the city. So in my opinion, once the art was finished, the artist was required and did sign a transfer of ownership to the city. And basically it's under 7.1 ownership of the project shall pass to the city. Upon final acceptance, the artist shall confirm in writing that the ownership of the work belongs to the city. The artist hereby irrevocably assigns, conveys otherwise, transfers to the city and its respective successors, assigns title to the project. So, in my opinion, I think the city has, if it has good cause to relocate them. This is this is city property. At this point they paid for it and they have the right to move it where, where they like to move it. I'm good with that. Thank you, city Attorney Commissioner DiDonato I too am in favor of moving both. I, I felt all along what the attorney said was true, that that was my feeling that we owned it and we can move it. So I just I think it it's been suggested by many. So it's been discussed and I'm in favor of going with the discussion. Thank you. Commissioner Donato. Vice Mayor Giuliani's. So. Do we have any a with the with the price to move it come out of the out of the art committee funds? Are you aware of I'm not certain where exactly we would take the money. I got the estimate from my staff to for the piece of the docks. And what was that? It's $1,000 to pour a new slab. Yeah, and we'll move it. Oh, no. Okay. Our people will move it. Yeah. I think the issue I think this was discussed with when the former mayor was here, that moving is one thing. I don't think we can. I think there's some artistic license in altering it. So we just have to make sure that when we move it that it's it hasn't been altered, I believe, and I don't know, the city attorney can look into that. And just to make sure that when we move it, we don't alter it. So this is a whole nother side note. But Renee. You. What if she dies? You're on Candid Camera. Yes, sir. How much are we going to get for the art contribution from the Anclote Harbor project? If they choose to pay in lieu $100,000? Okay, great. They have not made that decision officially. If they're going to pay in lieu or actually do an art project. So thank you. So yeah, I'm I'm definitely in favor of moving. I, I know when we went to see the, the one at the docks, I don't remember that fence being there. Was that fence there because I know now it's got a sign on it says, you know, only Marina parking in that in that space I don't do you remember that being like that, mayor? I, I remember it it's been there for some time. I think it definitely was there before the project, because I know that one of the things was that, you know, I mean, it was it's really pretty when you get there, you know, when you see the water behind it and everything, it was really pretty. It's just not the general public just wouldn't go there. So it's not going to be seen. So obviously that and then the, the drainage ditch that's that's a no brainer that needs to get moved. You know, I'd like to once if we get that 100,000 and, and right now the, the public art committee has 173,000 in their account. You know, I know we had talked about a, you know, a unity piece, a sculpture. I'd like to see the art committee pursue something like that and come back with some idea on that. I think that would be great. But as far as this, I'm I'm all in favor of moving both. Both. But again, I concur with Commissioner Mantha. We need the item on the on MLK needs some community involvement to determine where it goes. But thank you. Thank you, Vice Mayor. Well, I'm just going to I'm going to tell it like it is. And I'm I'm vice mayor. You go back and look at that piece. That whole piece is unity every side of it. We've gone through the records of the minutes to promote another unity piece in which so many, you know, experts, artists have participated in. It's got us to where we've gotten at. So this I'm not pandering to anybody, but that mission, that master art plan has been fulfilled. Go look the pictures. It's nothing but unity in Greek. It says onward together and it says it in English, too. So this whole idea that this unity piece has been ignored is not the case. And so I'm not supporting anything like that. What I did tell Miss Taylor and tell everybody we have a chance to do things and make things right to, to certain parts of the community. And so I don't mind moving that piece towards the front between two trees. We understand from the time when the city manager said it would take up a couple parking spots, I'm willing to sacrifice that. That's that's not the issue. But the next issue is going to be we're going to have a unity piece and where is it going to go? You know, and people want to cause controversy. And just because someone says no doesn't make them a racist. So I'm putting that out there just like it is. And so when I'm looking to do here is rectify correct two issues. Okay. I'll support moving that between the two oak trees off the sidewalk, sort of in front of the Marina. I guess we'll decide how many feet to the left or how many feet to the right on the sidewalk. It's going to go. We'll decide that. And I'm not going to I'm not interested in in looking at any other Sponge Docks art piece until we get those arts pictures filled in with historic sponge docks, photos of this community. That's the next project I want to work down on the sponge docks, and I'd like the Art committee to work on it. As far as the Union Academy piece, I have no problem moving it either. I have no problem moving it, and I've actually spoken to that one night where it got pretty heated between a few of us. I got to speak with former Mayor Archie. You know, he goes, that perfect place to put that would be right outside the Heritage Center, where people can walk around and they're going to be thousands of people a year looking at it. You're going to have seafood festivals. Sometimes you're going to have other festivals there, and you're going to have people being able to walk around and enjoy it at Craig Park with the others, right next to the heritage building. Now, there have been some suggestions that you just want to cut it up and put it on the wall inside the Heritage Museum. I'll let the board go with that, but I don't. I think it's an art piece that should be at least put in its circular format that it was. I think it would look sharp somewhere down at Craig Park. You know, where thousands of people a year are going to be able to see it way more thousands of people than walking inside the heritage building. But that's up to this board. And but so that's what I would like to see. So its final location between those two projects support the one bringing it up from the Marina between the two, or between the two oak trees somewhere in that section in front of Marina. I'll support moving it over either inside the Heritage Museum, but I don't think that's the best use of it. I think it still should be constructed in a format that it's somewhat was, or somewhere close by outside the Heritage Museum. So people walking through Craig Park can easily see it and be able to want to walk up and look at it, because it's got some great colors and it's inviting people to go walk and look at. And also, I want whatever pictures are supposed to be removed or added. Let's get that corrected so we can move forward. You know, I'm ready to move forward on all that. So but like I said, go do your homework on these minutes. I'm not pandering to anybody, but I'm not supporting another unity piece just to satisfy a couple people that were upset that they weren't involved in it from the get go. A lot of people took their time in. A lot of people moved forward, and when they actually did, the history of everything, they realized Bahamian meant a lot more than just what she thought her intentions were. So that's all I'm going to say about that. So with that said, do we need to amend the motion or just make it approve, make an approval to move the Bahamian art pieces, and we'll choose a direction at a location at a later date. Do you want me to is it is the direction to bring both pieces back, or can we place the one between the oak trees and then bring back the. I'm fine with that. The piece that's I just yeah. I think the one of the sponge docks we there's kind of consensus on that but the corral. I want them to come back here for approval. Okay. So that could be the motion. I make that motion if you want me to. Yeah, I'll motion that. We move both of the Bahamian pieces. The one at the sponge docks. I'll say this. Sorry. A motion to move both of the pieces. The location of the sponge corral has to come back to this board for approval. Sir, there are no further comments. Roll call please. Mr. Banther. Yes, Mr. Donato? Yes. Commissioner Eisner. Yes. Mayor Giuliani's. Yes. Mayor Kalia. Yes. Thank you. We're now going to item seven approved scope of services and authorize the city manager to execute an agreement with Inspire Placemaking Collective for smart code dash SAP update. Miss Vincent, can you please give the presentation? Thank you. So this is the follow on to the agenda item that you had on the CRA agenda earlier this evening. This piece is just for the. Tasked to assist planning staff and updating the Special Area plan and the Smart code. This portion of the scope is $41,000 that will be paid out of the city's professional consulting services budget. It's already in the budget now, if you have any questions about this, I'll be happy to answer it. But it really is kind of piggybacking on the CRA item you had earlier this evening. Thank you ma'am. Are there any public comments on this item? It are there any zoom comments? If anyone online would like to make a public comment on this item, please raise your hand and you'll be allowed into talk. And we do not have any raised hands at this time. Thank you. The chair will entertain a motion to approve scope of services and authorize the City Manager to execute an agreement with Inspire Placemaking Collective for smart code. SAP update. There are no further comments or discussion. Roll call please. Commissioner. Panther. Yes. Commissioner. Donato. Yes. Commissioner. Eisner. Yes. Vice mayor. Yes, mayor. Yes, yes. Item eight discussion and direction for food truck ordinance. And we have Miss Renee Vincent, Planning and Zoning Director, to present the item. One second here. So we have a. While. She's looking for that. I'll just make some comments. This was an issue that was was brought to staff asking if we could look at the food truck ordinance kind of came up during the storms and so forth. And I, I discovered that we have a restriction where Lowe's can have a food truck. But if example of our breweries wants a food truck, they have to own it. And so which is was is really unusual in my experience. So I wanted to see if this is something to have a discussion and get some direction from you. If that's something we want to revisit. I think it would be a really economic boon for, particularly for our breweries. It's a very common thing for breweries to rotate trucks and to have that available. And breweries, as you know, can really be an economic driver and community. In redevelopment conferences I go to, there's whole sessions on how to recruit breweries to your community. So this is just a simple tweak, we feel to the to the code, which would kind of open it up a little bit and allow for more growth in the community and support our business community. Thank you. City Manager. Do you want to give any more follow up on it, Miss Vincent? Yeah, I'll just so at a high level what you know, I've given you a strikethrough underline to just kind of react to but just for discussion purposes, when we put the mobile food truck ordinances in place and then they were amended again in 2022 and we expanded the opportunities again a little bit. Right now, the, you know, if you're within. Certain zoning districts, which is highway business, commercial plan development, it's outside the downtown and the CRA and the sponge docks. If you're in those districts, you can you can only have a mobile food truck. As the city manager said, operating in conjunction with the existing restaurant or or brewery. But it has to be branded. It has to be your own food truck. So you can't invite, you know, another food truck to come on and set up serve, you know, on a given evening. So what this proposal would do would be to open up the right. Now we do have an allowance for mobile food trucks to operate. As I said, in certain zoning districts between 7 a.m. And 10 p.m. Like Lowe's is a good example. They can just they can have one on their property. So the proposed changes would expand that area to include basically nonresidential property zoned and utilized. So that would open it up for other areas of the city that are mixed use or commercial. Under those same operating restrictions, they couldn't be there permanently. They have to they could come in and park, operate and then leave. They can't store them there. It would open up that opportunity. So I think that's kind of the high level of what what this, you know, proposed amendment would do. So that's probably a good jumping off point to discuss not making any proposed changes to the ordinance, because we do have some restaurants in place now that do have a branded food truck that is their own that. So I don't want to we don't want to take away that because it stays there 24 over seven. That's part of that process. These are you can bring them in for a day, every day if you want, but they have to leave at night. They don't sit there. So that's the that's kind of the difference in what we're proposing. The other piece of this is that within the sponge docks or within the special area plan altogether, not just the sponge docks, but the special area plan. There's a we would add as a conditional use that would require site plan approval, a food truck court, and that would be somewhere where you would have to you'd have to go through P and Z and the Board of Commissioners and be approved. But it would be two or more, kind of like a place where trucks could operate on a regular basis. Two, three, however many. So that I realize is a little bit heavier lift. That's why I made it a conditional use as proposed. Again, if that's not palatable, you know, we're trying to get input from the board this evening on these and to see if where we want to go. Thank you. Miss Vincent. Are there any public comments on this item? Yes. Barry Butler, 913 Westwinds Boulevard. And also the owner of the Tarpon Springs distillery at 605 North Pinellas. I think this is a great idea. I mean, the thing that I think would be the most exciting about the food truck, in addition to bringing business in, is it will bring younger people to this town. If you look at my demographic of my business right now, which I've been looking at the last couple of weeks, doing the end of the year books and looking at social media marketing and so forth. 85% of my clientele is 55 years and older. Okay, yet when we had a concert recently, I know we have two twice a year where we can apply for a food truck conditional use. And I might add that it's the same process I would have used to fill out papers to build an apartment complex, but regardless, when I did that, we brought in the Gorilla King food truck, which is a famous food truck from TV. The guys got Korean-mexican fusion tacos and the population that came out for that concert was visibly younger than the traditional gray haired people like myself. And I think that's what this community needs to grow, is to do things that are going to engage and bring younger people in, so that Tarpon Springs is viewed as as like Dunedin is like they go there to have fun and then they'll eventually move here and so forth and so on. Anyway, that's that's kind of my comment. I think it's an awesome thing to do. I don't intend to have a food truck every weekend. We really support Katarina's next door and the burgers and beignets, and we have their logos on our menus. But, you know, ten, 12 times a year we have big concert. We're going to have 2 or 300 people there. It'd be nice to have a food truck bring in some 30 somethings for once. Anyway, that's my comment. Thank you sir. Next comments please. Mike Bryant, owner of wine at the docks, 850 Dodecanese and 306 Monroe Street, Dunedin. So I use the food trucks in Dunedin often. Not every weekend. It brings about 20% increase of revenue to my business every time I have a food truck, and it also brings almost 20 to 25% to my neighbor. Because people come in, there's an avenue that I think we're all missing that with the food trucks is that the food truck is the Tampa Bay Food Truck Association. They do advertising. So there's a large group like like, well, well spoken. That was very well that there is a younger group that that's that's what they like. And it's going to bring a younger group into tarpon. It doesn't have to be. It's all different kinds of food. And they have a following. And if you're afraid that it's going to take business away from this restaurant and that restaurant, I'm in between three very busy restaurants. And you know what they say to me, if you succeed, I succeed. We don't want you to fail. This is the first words those restaurants said to me. They don't have a problem with the food truck that I have because it's good food. I don't have a food truck that's, you know, it's got to be well rated and it's going to be part of the Food Food Truck Association. And they do advertising. And there is a large number, I don't know if it's 10,000 or 50,000 members that they follow it nightly. I'm going to go eat there. They don't want to sit down and have a three hour meal. They just want to eat and go shop. That's what we need on in Tarpon. We have plenty. We have great food, and if I have anything on the docks, it'd be good food, but it wouldn't be very often. But I didn't understand the food court. That's new. I never that's I don't understand that at all. That's new. Right. Please explain that. So. The concept is that if there's a if you own a piece of property that you want to establish, you know, call it a, like a permanent food truck court. So you would have to improve the property. You would have to have bathrooms, seating. You know, the city manager's got some experience with these. So he may want to jump in and bail me out here. But so but it would be an approval process to establish a food truck court. And it would be a place where trucks could rotate through. And what's typically common is there'll be a building, empty building. And so someone will turn that into the restrooms and maybe some indoor. So it's a restaurant seating. It's not a food station there permit, alcohol permit. And then there's maybe a couple trucks are there regularly and others rotate. And so it keeps bringing people back because there's a new food selection ongoing. So it's a it's a new business in town. And the way they provide like subcontract the food out with the food truck regulations. They have to have bathrooms. Exactly. Yeah. They have to meet wasn't just a blank parking lot and just throwing food trucks that can be there at any time, but I I'm a business and I got regulations on me. Right. That doesn't make sense. And there's a distinction of like a food truck rally is a special event. It's a temporary thing. And we have a whole nother process where we vet special events and they have to go through that process. That's one thing. When I first, I didn't understand that you could have food trucks during the street closure, but as a business you couldn't have a you know, we have street closures in Dunedin. And it's and I think it's a great idea. It's going to help a lot of other business, not just my business, if I ever decide to do it, because I got losses, a three hour wait, rusty bellies, the three. I benefit because they come in and they sit down and they they watch a football game or something and have a glass of wine. But I think this is very important. You need to really think about it. Hopefully I'm not amusing you guys on this. This is this is a very serious issue for the docks in downtown and fellow businesses that this will increase their business and just not their business. Like I said, the neighbor right next to me benefited. If I have a food truck there on a Saturday night, he benefit. He he makes or she makes 2,025% more that day, you know, so I I'm in favor of it and whatever I can do to help and educate. And because it is the Tampa Bay Food Truck Association is a class act that well, they're very good. You know, there's really good food on it. And there's a large population that follow the food trucks that will bring people to tarpon that never would come to tarpon. Thank you. Thank you sir. Next comment please. Hello Eric Ness, I live at 109 hibiscus. I also work at Brighter Days in Tarpon. The brewery there. I'm the piggyback. That's the word of the day apparently off mike about the food trucks. I I'm the guy that pretty much is up front bartending most nights and Fridays, Thursdays and we have events going on. So many people are looking and asking for food trucks. They're calling for food trucks, they're looking for an eating option. And, you know, I gotta tell them, we don't have anything. I have bags of chips and that's it. And they make their way somewhere else. Either they leave tarpon or they go somewhere else. It's unfortunate because the amount of people we could keep and bring in, especially when you're drinking alcohol, is a is a huge thing. And I'm going to reiterate that part again. When you're drinking alcohol, it is nice to have a food option. Bags of chips, which is what we have, is not an option. So having those food trucks for those bigger events would be a an amazing item. They talked about younger people as a gentleman in his mid 40s, which I hear is the new mid 20s. It does invite people to come out more often than not. I. New Port Richey is a great example of the food trucks that work. Businesses seem to be succeeding all around New Port Richey. That place has ballooned up since I've been down here. The food trucks work down there and I'm confident they can work here in Tarpon Springs. Meanwhile, if you ever want to come by brighter days. I have not seen many of you. I think I've seen the mayor there a couple times. But come on by if you want to try. We have 16 taps. I can make sure you can find a beer that you like. Ciders, wines, all the things come on by work. Thursday nights, Friday nights. So, yeah. Thank you. They got some strong IPAs. Yeah, some really good IPAs. We have. Again, bright Light lager is my favorite. We have a good variety of sours. We're into it, but we'll make it work. I'll have you sample things. You'll be fine. Thank you. Next speaker, please. Jane Harrington, 1021 Jamaica Way. I'm not a tarpon, so don't hold that against me. I moved here five years ago, and we love tarpon. The one thing that's missing is food. If you don't want to go to a big restaurant, I. We go to the breweries, we go to brighter days. We go to wine at the docks, we go down to Dunedin, we go over to two frogs. And I'm really tired of taking my own food to go out to enjoy myself. I went to Brighter Days last Friday night, and my friend sent me popcorn from Pennsylvania. She is the nth degree of kettle corn and she knew I was going to breweries, so she sent me popcorn. When I told her I had to take my own food in my own town to a brewery or another wine shop. So as a person who lives here, I love to go out, but I'm not going out all the time to loss, to rusty bellies, to the wine society, to currents, to the other places. They're nice, but not just to go out on a Friday or a Saturday. My husband and I like to go out. A couple weeks ago we went drove all the way to Saint Petersburg to go to the food truck below 716, because finally they came up to the Saint Petersburg area. So that was an hour drive to go to a food truck. People follow food trucks, and if you ever have a chance, eat it below 716. It's very good food truck, but I would encourage you let these people have it. You'd go there more often. Local people will go there more often when they can get variety, experience different things and enjoy the establishment. They have music and you have to take your own food. Something's wrong with that. Thank you very much. Have a good night. Thank you ma'am. Are there any other public comments? Hello. Jason Leonard, 311 North Sanford Avenue, Brighter Days Brewing. Just to piggyback off of everything else, we want to do the best we can. I'm third generation here in this town. It means a lot to me. We were unaware that you could not have these when we first opened, you know, kind of pre Covid this there's a synergy that happens between breweries and food trucks and amongst the community. It's just assumed and understood. So if it's not daily it's multiple times a week. Hey why don't you work with food trucks. So it's kind of confusing to our customer that they don't have that option. I can understand the mentality of local businesses, kind of the famine. You want to hold on to what you have. We don't want to change anything because it's going to take away from what we have right now. But I think the feast mentality is more people to the area is going to be better for everyone. You know, we've been open, we're going on year five now. We bring hundreds, thousands of people to the area. They come here. Oh, I didn't know this was here. I didn't know this was here. I think it's just overall good. We really just want to do the best we can. We're bringing you the feedback of what our customers bring to us. So this would be extremely helpful. Thank you. Thank you sir. Hi Margot Lee, I live at 221 North Stafford Avenue. I live across the street from Brighter Days Brewing. When I first moved to Tarpon almost eight years ago, it was a pretty sleepy little town. There was only one brewery open and there was a lot of antique shops back then. Since then, I've seen the town grow. We have more breweries, more restaurants. Downtown has really changed. More young people are coming here. And during Covid the food trucks were allowed and I saw brighter days do they were just opening and they did really well. And then after the food trucks weren't allowed, business really slowed. And especially in our area where we are off the trail, it's really kind of like a food desert over there. There's not a lot of foot traffic from downtown or the docks. So I do think that food brings people. And I also think that community over competition is important, that we can all work together, even though it might be seen as competition to other restaurants, they're also further away. But then it also brings more people to the area that don't know about the area. I work in Dunedin right now, and a lot of people don't know about tarpon or the things that we have going on here. So I think the more businesses we can bring to Tarpon and the more people we can bring to tarpon, and that is good for the community. Thank you ma'am. I wasn't going to speak on this, but I thought I'd better get up and say something because I'm not. I don't usually go out. So last weekend I went to the distillery. That was the first time I had a cocktail in about two years. And I tell you, when we when you want to, like he was saying, when you have a cocktail you want to eat. So in the in the olden days when I used to go out, we used to step outside the club and you can go to the fried chicken little. It was a little food truck where they sold fried chicken. And you bought your meal right there. If they had a food truck in that parking lot, I'm pretty sure they did pretty good. But people buying something to put on their stomach really quick because we do patronize the restaurant down the street. But our food truck was Uber bringing us a pizza from Marco's when we could have had something right there in the parking lot. So I kind of promote the food trucks, especially if you can get one to the distillery. Thank you. Thank you, Miss Taylor. Are there any other public comments? It are there any zoom comments? If anyone online would like to make a public comment on this item, please raise your hand to talk. And we do not have any raised hands at this time. Thank you back for discussion and direction from the Commission for Staff and Commissioner Brandt, your light was on first. Thank you. First off, I want to thank the all the residents that, you know, stayed late here and oh thank you that that that stayed late here tonight and talked you got you guys are very passionate. This is long overdue in our city. I've often tried to think of how we could balance not having a food truck free for all, but also promoting the things that, that, that were that, that, that, that, that were all, you know, doing here tonight. I'm in bed by usually this time at night and I prefer bourbon. So I'm not a big food truck guy or like a bar guy. But if y'all get Nashville hot chicken out there, then I'll be there. All right. Thank you. Thank you, Commissioner Eisner. I got to recoup after that one. Thank you. Mayor. So I am pro food truck. I never even heard of such a thing when I came down here. Being an ex New Yorker, every single street corner had six food trucks on it. You could get donuts, bagels, dirty hot dogs. I mean, anything you want. It was anything you wanted was there. So I understand the reason why it was restricted here. But I am going to be voting for it. The only issue I have in some of the backup, it states here to remove the limit of one food truck per property. So that means we can have. Six, ten, 12. Where do we stop? You know, I got to see every business owner come up here. And I'm definitely for having a food truck at a business. But does somebody rent out a piece of their property and have 15 trucks there and have like a, you know, a food truck party? I don't know if I'm if I'd like that to be in there. So that's problem. One. Problem two. When we first did the ordinance, we had to have the food truck had to be attached to the facility and it had to have the name, you know, if it said brighter days, then the truck got to say brighter days. You can't do that. I mean, you know, this this would remove that requirement. I will I agree, because, you know, one day you want to have tacos, the next day you want to have hot dogs. I mean, you know, you can't just have the same food there all the time, but you also have something here that says remove the 30 day separation requirement for commercial food truck event. What is that mean? So we had a requirement. For we put in an additional process for a temporary use permit for non residential properties. If you're having like an event where let's say it's a three day, you want to have a three day event where the mobile food truck is going to stay there 2 or 3 days in a row. That's a temporary use process. When we set that up again, we were being cautious. So we said, well, we don't want a free for all. So let's say there was a requirement. And if you look at the strikethrough underline, you'll see where this is that you can only do it four times a year. And you had to have a separation period between events. So this would basically get rid of the four time per year limit. And a 30 day separation still requires a temporary use permit. But again, it's just relaxing that a little bit more. That doesn't really apply to that's again, that's for like an event that's you know, I don't know someone's having you know, I don't know what a two day event would be. Maybe the way that the new ordinance would be written would be allowing a truck like Brighter Days could bring in a truck between 7 a.m. And 10 p.m. And 10 p.m. It's got to go. If they were having an event where they knew they were going to keep a truck on site for 3 or 4 days or whatever in a row and not have it moved, it would have to have the temporary use permit, and that's where that restriction would, would come into play. So we're again, we're loosening that up a little bit. So would the distillery be able to have a food truck every weekend? Every Saturday night they could have a food truck every Saturday night. As this is written, they can't store it on the site overnight. They would have to go back to wherever its home territory is. So the normal operating that doesn't require a temporary use permit or anything like that, brighter days or a brewery or whomever could have a food truck come in between 7 a.m. And 10 p.m. At 10 p.m. It's got to leave the site. It's got to go dispose of its do whatever it does, go back to its home operating base. But they could do that. They could do it every day if they want. Under the way the new ordinance is, is proposed. They just can't keep it there overnight. That then it kind of falls into that event category. We'd want a temporary use permit. So there isn't where they have to have it every 30 days. No, this this would remove that because that's this was a little misleading. Okay. I have no further questions on that. I think I was answered enough. Thank you. The city manager had his light on. So we're going to go to him first before Vice Mayor and Commissioner DiDonato. Sure. I just want to address the number of trucks issues. I had put that in there because I actually I have a unique perspective. My wife and I had a truck for about six months, a Brazilian food truck, and it's very common. You have a savory truck and a sweet truck inside. And one of the realities when a business has a truck and it takes out a couple parking spaces so they really can't have ten trucks in there unless it's a special event, which we have a process for that. So we attended an event at High Dive Bar in Gainesville. They would block the entire parking lot with 15 trucks, and there were thousands of people there. You couldn't move. There were so many people there. But that was a special event. So they didn't have on site parking. But the reality of everyday operation is that the businesses are going to need their customers to be able to park, so they'll sacrifice one or 2 or 3 spaces, cram those trucks in there, maybe, maybe a sweet truck and a savory truck, or maybe two savory trucks. And it just wouldn't be to their benefit, I think, to build their parking lot with trucks, and then they've got nowhere for their customers to park to use the trucks. Right. But the only thing is with that, when we have our first Friday, we have our fire inspector who has to walk in between each truck to make sure that there the propane tank is not next to the person's barbecue. That's, you know, so you have to be careful when you do this to make sure that safety's. Would. We have a fire inspector going and looking at these things? I mean, these are the kind of things that when you open up that door, you want to make sure that the what we're doing is not going to cause us to have a 40 pound propane explode. Sure, sure. I mean, what I experienced was the trucks always went nose to tail, so the driving compartment was up against the you had to let the other truck be able to get out the back. And that's where the propane tanks were. So you just automatically left a space, you know, you didn't you couldn't go back to back because you serve out of you'd be serving out of opposite sides. So they all serve out of the same side to go nose to tail. You pull in and leave room for the guy in front of you to get out his back door, and his propane tanks were typically on the back. I think logistically even a barbecue truck has a cooker on the back, and the next truck behind him is going to have his driving compartment. Closest thing to his barbecue cooker. All I'll share with you is when you've been through a couple of years of First Fridays, we'll talk again. It doesn't count for like, a tent setup, I know. Thank you. City Manager. Commissioner DiDonato. Yeah, I just want to add that I for this project, I think we should do food. Thank you, Vice Mayor. Yeah, I'm all in favor of liberalizing these food truck laws. I, I when I go to New York, I always go I go on my formerly Twitter. Right. And there's a food truck called the Cinnamon Snail. And every time we go, we find out where it is and go there and get something to eat because it's, it's great. So I it actually I agree it promotes business and then I end up in an area and then I end, we end up going and shopping there and walking around and, and my wife always buys more stuff than, than we need. And so it always cost me a lot more than the food truck money to go there. So no, I'm all in favor of that. And, and the, the man back there. Did you say your name was Jane? Yes. You are a tarpon. You live here? You live in tarpon? You're a tarpon. I all right, thank you. That's it. Thank you. So, yeah, with the food trucks, I just want to go over. So, for example, a restaurant that serves as a restaurant, they can still have a food truck to connected to us. Okay, this I'll tell you what. Three years ago, I would have said no because I want to look out for the docks. And obviously I'm happy to see business owners here. But I'm telling you right now, you know, sometimes you a change in perspective. We have a new city manager here. Bring some ideas that initially I may have not supported. But you know, we got to listen that stuff. We got to try to evolve it and create opportunity for these businesses that, you know, need food with all their their great drinks that they provide. And so I am concerned about the parking lot situation. You know, I've talked to you about it plenty of times. I'm worried about our docks being turned into 4 or 5 big parking lots with food trucks through them. And can we talk about that a little bit? Because I would like some direction because I think that is a legitimate concern that, you know, so parking lots that are operating as pay for parking lots, you know, that's their sole purpose is to be a parking lot. I think we probably should have some consideration for what can or cannot go into those big parking lot areas. And I can we can give that some more thought. But this is just a draft. It hasn't gone been advertised or anything like that. So. Well, let me ask you this. Could an idea be whatever amount of parking spots they have? And I'm just putting a number out there, 5% of those can end up being food trucks. Is that like a you know, is that something we could restrict or not? Because if you have 100 parking spots, then of course you could have, you know, we'll see. So and I guess in my mind and again I'm going to look to the city manager. But I to me that would be more of a food truck court type of scenario, because if you're parking a truck on a vacant parking lot and there's nothing else there, there's no seating, there's no bathrooms, there's no wash facilities or anything like that. I think that's problematic. So maybe that falls into the food truck court issue, but we need to be able to make a distinction in the ordinance for that. Yeah. Because what what I would recommend I want to make sure we can allow an example I thought of is, you know, we really want to activate the old Winn-Dixie Plaza. It's empty. Sure. And one way to draw attention is, for instance, I've seen it in the Orlando metro area. They'll have a food truck rally on a Saturday night. The circle of food trucks. People go there, they have a great time, and it begins to draw attention to the property and what's around the area. And then maybe the next weekend there's a car show, and then the next month there's another food truck rally. And so it becomes a place. And my experience has been that then renters begin coming in there. And so I want to be able to make sure we can have, you know, events. Food truck rallies. But if you're worried about an ongoing setup day after day where they've swapped out the previous use of a parking lot for a food truck thing, we do need a mechanism to say, you're going to have to build bathrooms and, and meet our building code and it becomes a business. It becomes a food truck court, which is a full time right business. The way it's written now, it says mobile food dispensing vehicles shall not operate from vacant. And slash unimproved land. That was the intent to capture that. But someone could turn around and make an argument. Well, it's an approved parking lot. That's not that's improved land. So I just want to kind of put a box around those, you know, parking lots that are operating as their own business, but there's no facilities there that, you know, they're somehow out of the there's not even an opportunity for somebody to try to use a, use a restroom or anything like that. So as opposed to if it's even at the Winn-Dixie Plaza or something like that, if it's a big special event, you can probably those are going to be limited anyway because they're going to be 2 or 3 days of events. But the daily operation where you can come in and park and operate, that needs to be a little more tightened up so we can put some thought into that. But between getting this stuff to a first reading, I think that's going to take the most thought. And I'm not even I'm talking about the sponge docks, right? But the parking lots and the sponge docks, and that's my biggest I would love to have every all these businesses, even in the sponge docks, have one food truck by, by their business. But I'm worried about the 50 food truck place. You know, on one side of the dock that's, you know, not going to go all the way across the other side. So I'd rather have it spread out. And I know we talked about potentially a, a distance between food trucks maybe, or something like that. Minimal. I don't know if that's something we could look into for the sponge docks, but when Dixie put a thousand food trucks, if you can bring people there, you know, but we still have to look out for some of those property owners or business owners at the sponge docks without creating a parking lot. That's a haven of 100 food trucks. And that's my biggest concern. I'd rather see every one of these business owners have one food truck spread out through the sponge docks, than just one area where people are going to come to and not be able to float around. So that's my concern with that. But no, I'm happy to move forward and new people bring, you know, some old ideas and it's time for us to come together and accept them. So okay, I'm ready to move forward if we have the discussion and direction that doesn't meet any motions for amendments. Right? I think we have. Good. Yeah. We're good. Thank you. Thank you so much. All right. We are going on to item nine discussion and direction for sign code changes to allow flags, banners for newly opened businesses. Miss Vincent will be presenting this item. All right. So we had a request to consider expanding our allowances or the types of signage that can be used for a new business. Or we use the term grand opening specifically, you know, like the feather and flutter signs, things like that. We have a temporary temporary banner section of the code. 19202 so I have a draft written that would allow and commercial and industrial zoning districts, you know, a newly established business can display feather or flutter signs. Those are defined in our code for a period of 45 days, it says, in support of a grand opening. If that makes the city attorney queasy, we'll just say a new business. So there's a content issue there that I think he wants to make sure we don't run afoul of. So I don't know if you want to address. Yeah, I think sign laws have to be content neutral. So it can't just you can't say it has to say this. Right. But you can describe time, place and manner like a business that has newly opened can get this type of flag and this is how it looks and that kind of stuff. But the message we can't prescribe what the message says. So this would allow them for 45 days. There's a series of criteria, especially for the feather and flutter signs, you know, had to establish something to work from. So it's based on your lineal feet of property frontage and one per ten feet. It's got to be set back five feet. You can't block visibility. Police can enforce visibility. And in lieu of all that, if you just want to have a banner not exceeding 35ft■!S, eight feet in height, that's kind of our standard banner size that can also be displayed for 45 days. So it's just an allowance for that 45 day period and you can choose it. It doesn't have to be the day you open, but when you put them up, they can be up for 45 days and then they need to come down. Thank you, Miss Vincent. Are there any public comments on this item? No we're not no we're not. Mike Bryant 850 Dodecanese Tarpon and 306 Monroe. Business owner. I like that we have that in Dunedin. It's new businesses can. But I think if we could as you know, sitting here, I'm sitting here thinking, if I could put a flag out right now, it would help my business. So there is an allowance for that already. Oh there is, yeah. It's already take it down. Yeah. So just so you know in. In a oops. So in, in commercial and industrial districts you can have a temporary banner sign. We have a square footage requirement or limitation on privately owned property four times a year, up to a maximum of 14 days per occurrence and 45 days between. So we do have a periodic. You can just put them out. What I'm asking is to look into this and add to it for the businesses that because we the two storms to because people like oh and I know you're open, you know they walk right by it. And a lot of businesses that you know, we're trying to do get everybody, you know, down to the docks. And I think if we could just waive that for six months, I mean, I don't want I don't want it to be flag crazy down there. But, you know, the business can say they're open, but come, come talk to me when we have a chance or visit the planning department. I'll go through what you can do, because I think there's enough allowance that you can do it now days. But I'm just saying that I'd like to keep it up if I did. If I did it, you know, I had flags. I was told to take it down. So we're working in that direction slowly but surely and again and again as a business owner. Public works. Sure. After the hurricane, they you guys, all you guys, the police, fire the trash. You did a wonderful job. You look at other towns on this coast and they're still struggling. So thank you. Thank you sir. Any other public comments? It are there any zoom comments? If anyone online has any questions about this or would like to make a public comment on this item, please raise your hand and you'll be allowed into talk. And we do not have any race hands at this time. Thank you. Any questions for staff? Thank you. You know, I initially reached out to Miss Vincent and the city manager just coming up with ways because there was businesses that are saying, hey, we can't promote ourselves and we're new. And so I just I thought maybe there was just a way to as they just open up to, you know, for a certain amount of days to be able to let people know driving by that they are open and they are a new business. And so they were able to articulate that and put it in, in writing. And just so we can help everyone who takes the time to invest in our community. So thank you so much. You have the direction city Manager. We're good to go. If yeah, there's no other input or comments we can draft and bring it back. Thank you so much. For flag. So I'm okay. We're now going to item ten Discussion and Direction on changing the rule for utilities meters on the docks for vacant land. Miss Vincent. My last one for the evening. So we've had interest expressed repeatedly for quite some time regarding docks on vacant land. So in 1991 the code was established or code change was enacted that that allowed a vacant property, residential property to have a dock. And that was at the request of the realtors at that point in time, and probably the property owners, to increase the value and marketability of the properties. But to do that as part of that ordinance, there were several restrictions put in place, really to primarily at that point in time control Liveaboards, which was not allowed. So one of the requirements was that you would not be allowed or restrictions. You could not have water, sewer or electric service to that dock. We've repeatedly had requests for, especially for electric service. Because you have a boat lift, you need electric generally. Otherwise you got to haul a generator and all kinds of things so that, you know, I kind of spot checked our map, and at this point in time, I'm going to guess we don't have probably more than a dozen vacant waterfront lots available. So I think the opportunity for abuse is somewhat limited now. So what's been drafted is just a proposed strikethrough underline that would remove the restriction on water, sewer and electric service for docks on vacant land would keep all the other restrictions. And in addition, similar to what we do with accessory dwelling units, we would require restrictive covenant to be filed on the property, acknowledging those conditions that you cannot have a liveaboard and you know what those other conditions such that if the property is bought and sold and if they do a title search, it will at least pop up for a new property owner that, okay, I can't just buy this and go put my sailboat there and live on it or rent it out as an Airbnb because it has water, sewer and electric service. So that's the intent of the strikethrough underline. Happy to answer any questions. Thank you. Are there any public comments on this item? It are there any zoom comments? Anyone online would like to make a public comment on this item? Please raise your hand and you'll be allowed into talk. And we do not have any raised hands at this time. Okay, this is a discussion and direction item. Commissioner Eisner, your light is on. Thank you. Mayor, I think you overestimated the 12 properties because I'd like to know the other 11. So here's the first thing. I live across the street from an empty lot. It's been like that for years. There's been electricity going through it. If you're talking about a liveaboard, a liveaboard has to be in the water, not a liftable dock, because you need to have air conditioning. You need water source. I mean it. So anybody that would put a lift in, you cannot have a liveaboard. Second, there's so few of these out there that it has become a obsolete ruling that just has no bearing, except for one property that I know of. And I just think it's something that we just kind of have to get off of the, you know, off of our rules and regulations for this. I don't see this being an issue. We can always if there is a liveaboard, we can always deal with it. Then, I mean, you know, I know of a liveaboard who for the longest time sat out on the Anclote in between a couple of the islands. And I think actually a couple of the police had to make sure he was still alive. So, you know, if you want to be a liveaboard, there's tons of liveaboard right off of the Anclote by the, you know, by the power plant. I just think this is something that we just need to get off the books and just allow people to have an ability to lift up and lower their dock without having a ruling of having to have a generator there, which would just annoy the heck out of everybody else. And then you got to keep it chained to your dock. I mean, so I just think it's something silly that we just have to pull off the records. That's my comment. Thank you. Thank you. Commissioner. Commissioner, no further comments from the board. I think we have the direction to move forward. So thank you, Miss Vincent. Thank you. We are now going to item 11, resolution 2025-0 for ratification of Executive Orders 202426202428 and 202501 and extending a declaration of state of emergency for Tarpon Springs due to Hurricane Helene and City Attorney, can you please read the resolution title? Yes, sir. This is 2020 504, a resolution of the Board of Commissioners of the City of Tarpon Springs, Florida, ratifying Executive Order 2024 dash 26, extending the declaration of local state of emergency to December 31st, 2024. Ratifying Executive Order 2024 Dash 28. Extending the declaration of local state of emergency to January 7th, 2025. Ratifying Executive Order 2020 501. Extending the declaration of local state of emergency to January 14th, 2025, and providing for an effective date hereof. Thank you. Are there any public comments on this item? I t are there any zoom comments? Anyone online would like to make public comment? Please raise your hand and you'll be allowed into talk. And we do not have any raised hands at this time. Thank you. Hearing none, the chair will entertain a motion to approve item 11, resolution 202504. So moved. Second, there are no further comments or discussion. Roll call please. Mr. Panther. Yes, Commissioner DiDonato. Yes, Commissioner Eisner. Yes. Vice mayor. Yes, mayor. Yes. Item 12. Resolution 202505 ratification of the of Executive Orders (202) 427-2024. Dash 29202502 and extending a declaration of state of emergency for Tarpon Springs due to Hurricane Milton. A resolution of the Board of Commissioners of the City of Tarpon Springs, Florida ratifying Executive Order 2024 Dash 27 extending declaration of local state of Emergency to December 31st, 2024. Ratifying Executive Order 20 2429. Extending the declaration of local state of emergency to January 7th, 2025. Ratifying Executive Order 2020 502. Extending the declaration of State of Emergency to January 14th, 2025, and providing for an effective date hereof. Thank you. Are there any public comments on this item? I see it, are there any zoom comments? Anyone online would like to make public comment? Please raise your hand and you'll be allowed into talk. And we do not have any raised hands at this time. Hearing none. The chair will entertain a motion to approve resolution 202505. So second, there are no further comments or discussion. Roll call please. Yes, Commissioner. Donato. Yes, Commissioner. Eisner. Yes. Vice mayor. Yes. Mayor. Coolio's. Yes. Item 13, resolution 202501 city employee bonus program. And we have Fire Chief Scott Young to present the item. I'd like me to read the resolution. Oh, yes. Please read the resolution. A resolution of the Board of Commissioners of the City of Tarpon Springs, Florida, authorizing a city employee bonus program with specific eligibility and consideration requirements to be administered by the city Manager and providing for an effective date. Thank you. And fire Chief. Good evening. Fire Chief Scott Young, back in November, you gave direction for staff to look at a policy on doing bonuses for employees. We found out during after the storms, when you tried to give the city employees a bonus. We didn't have a policy in place. So that's what you brought forward to you. We work with the labor attorney to help draft something up. This is what we've come up with. It's a two part policy. The first part allows the city manager to do bonuses for employees that during the year that may have done some extra stuff on projects, done exemplary work, or doing their merit increase, that he could do that on his own. It also lays out a certain conditions and eligibility requirements. The other part allows the board to be able to give bonuses after events or whatever they feel they need to do as a whole for the whole city. So that's what we brought forward to you. Have any questions? I'd be happy to answer them for you. Thank you. Are there any public comments on this item? It are there any zoom comments? Anyone online would like to make a public comment on this item? Please raise your hand and you'll be allowed into talk. And we do not have any raised hands at this time. Thank you. The chair will entertain them. Oh, sorry Commissioner, your light is on. Also, make sure that does this include police and fire. It does not include the police and fire union employees because they're contractual. What we did. If the board wanted to do something for them under all this, I believe they'd probably have to get an MOU established and done. Both contracts are coming up in the next couple of years, so I would imagine we can probably try to put some language in the like a me too clause type thing that if the city employees got it, it would be inclusive to them also. So I assume that's more of a legal matter. We can't just put them in. Okay, correct. Well, hopefully like like like like like like like like you said in the negotiations that we can do that. You know that like you know me too clause. Thank you. Thank you Commissioner banter. Vice mayor Giuliani's. Will this be in a budgeted. Will there be like a contingent item in the budget for this. I'm not sure how you do this discretionary on your part without having any of it budgeted. Yeah. We would have to consider that in the budget process to allow for to allow for some contingent. We'll have some fun that you can use to tap into. Right. Right. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. There are no commissioner comments. The chair will entertain a motion to approve item 13, resolution 202501. So moved. Second, there are no further comments. Roll call. Commissioner. Banther. Yes. Commissioner DiDonato. Yes. Commissioner. Eisner. Yes. Vice mayor Kelly. Yes. Mayor Giuliani yes. The final item of the night. Item 14, resolution 202502 approving date and rules and procedures for candidate forum. City attorney, can you please read the title? Yes, sir. Resolution of the Board of Commissioners of the City of Tarpon Springs. To co-sponsor a candidate forum for candidates for city office to be held on Tuesday, January 14th, 2025, and providing for rules and procedures for the conduct of the Candidate Forum and providing for an effective date. Thank you, City Attorney. City clerk, do you want to add anything to this item? This is just our standard perfect resolution that we do that was approved by the City Attorney's office. Thank you. Ma'am. Are there any public comments on this item? It are there any zoom comments? Anyone online would like to make a public comment on this item? Please raise your hand and you'll be allowed into talk. And we do not have any raised hands at this time. Thank you sir. The chair will entertain a motion to approve resolution 2025-02. So moved. Second, there are no further comments. Roll call please, Mr. Vampire. Yes, Commissioner. Denato. Yes, Commissioner. Eisner. Yes. Vice mayor. Yes, mayor. Yes. Yes. That concludes the regular session agenda. We will now go to board and staff comments. Staff comments. Major Mathis, no, I want to thank the mayor City manager for allowing me to answer some of the public comments as it pertains to the police department. I do appreciate you giving me that time. And on another note, I just I'll leave it there. Thank you for allowing me to explain that and get that out there. That is more. Thank you. Major city attorney. Yeah, just one real quick ask. You'll recall, I think it was November in the case of City of Tarpon Springs versus Hinton, which is a foreclosure matter related to an underlying code enforcement matter. I had asked for a stay in that case to allow me to have time, my firm time actually, to work with Miss Hinton to try to resolve her issues. I'm happy to report that she is now in compliance. The building. The structure has been demolished, and I've been told by staff that she's now in compliance. So what I'm asking is, since that's the case, there's no reason to go forward with a foreclosure matter. If she's in compliance. I'd like to go ahead and wrap up that case with your permission, and then give Miss Hinton instructions on how to come forward to the city if she desires to do that for a lean reduction or whatever she wants to request. Thank you. So, yeah, we'll I think just so long as there's no opposition, I'd just like go ahead and wrap that case up and put it to bed. Okay. All right. Great. Thank you sir. Yeah I appreciate everybody on the staff. City staff helped me with this. It's a good, good outcome. Thank you. City clerk I just wanted to remind everyone today a press release did go out of the candidate form that will be taking place next Tuesday on January 14th, from 6 to 730. That is only for County Commissioner seat three. That has opposition. We'll have from 6 to 630. It would be a meet and greet and from 630 to 730 the public would have the opportunity to write questions down for. To be answered by the candidate of this. As you're aware, the candidate forum would be co-sponsored and the League of Women Voters, North Pinellas would be assisting us. Thank you, City Clerk. City manager I just had one thing I'm not really sure of the hour procedurally, how we close City Hall. I realized or discovered we are not. We are closed every federal holiday but Juneteenth. So we're not observing Juneteenth. And I request that we do that. If you're not comfortable closing City Hall another day, Presidents day is pretty unusual. We are closed on Presidents Day. If we wanted to make that switch. But but my request is that we observe Juneteenth this year and federal holiday. Right. It's a federal holiday. Yes, sir. No. Represent the last the last slaves who were free in Texas. Absolutely. If we could keep them both, give them another holiday. Yeah. Thank you. Every day is a holiday, right? Tell him thank you. We're now going to board. Comments, Commissioner Banther. Yes. Thank you. First, I mean, if we discuss food trucks and alcohol, then I feel like we got to sample something, you know? But that's just my chicken and rice and my energy drink. Long more off. So I do want to thank and it's been said before, but I lived here my entire life. And the bayou this Christmas was the best I've seen. I don't know who designed that or, you know, whatever it was, but kudos to them and the crew. Y'all did a great job here at this city. I, I don't think you'll find a better. And we're not a small town. We're actually a medium sized town. If you look at the numbers, you won't find another town our size that has the light display we have. And of course, as we said, it'll be wonderful when that when that gold cross comes back on the bayou as well next year. So thank you everybody. Thank you. Commissioner Banther. Commissioner DiDonato, I would echo that I happen to walk by you when the lit the candles. That was the most beautiful I've ever seen it. And I think we could even maybe even make that grow a little better because the number of people out there was phenomenal. So my congratulations and hopefully we make it even bigger and better, bigger and better. I remember that, Commissioner DiDonato. Remember that. Okay I will. Commissioner Eisner thank you, mayor. So let me start by saying tomorrow I will be at Forward Pinellas representing Tarpon Springs from 1 to 3 or however long it goes. I was able to go to the blessing of the boats. I felt this was my first time I was not in physical shape, foot wise, to make it to epiphany, and I did get to watch it on the webcam. I got to tell you that webcam was the best seat I have ever had like that. I've been on the boat seeing this. I've been looking at the back of people's heads when they were jumping in the water, and I got to tell you, this was the best to be on that webcam. I am considering taking that seat again next year, and it was just really nice. I was overly blessed that the weather held out other than a little wind. It was warm. I just saw nothing but unity. You know, unity in town. I saw all smiles. I saw it was just it was just a blessing all the way around. So many people posted stuff on Facebook, so I really felt like I got to be there, even though I wasn't able to. And all I could say is, it just made me very proud to be a Tarpon night, even though I wasn't born here. We will go back to that tarpon business, but it was just really nice and there was almost no issues, almost no issues. Everything went as smooth as possible and I just like I said, I was just very proud to be here. You know, I felt part Greek yesterday, you know, so you are part Greek now I know. Thank you. Vice Mayor Koulianos. For the, the epiphany celebration was amazing. You know, I want to give commend the city manager and all your staff for again the lights, the town never looked better. And so you guys are you started off your first epiphany. You get an A. All right. So you did great. And luckily the weather held out. We didn't get the rain till four. It was all over and that was wonderful. You know the there was a lot of security. I was the I think the chief said we had what, close to ten different agencies that were helping us from all the different police departments. And, you know, we had those special barricade things and all that. And, you know, and that kind of falls after, you know, the tragedy in New Orleans, you know, we couldn't let anything like that happen here. And it's scary because, you know, that guy who did that in New Orleans was an American. He was a veteran, you know, and then you had that guy that piggybacked off him. It blew that Tesla up. And in front of the Trump building and in, I believe it was the Las Vegas. You know, it is it's scary when you have these people that are in our, you know, in our society that have these hate this and, and hate doesn't know any, you know, any boundaries. And it was it was scary. So again, I saw that extra security that seemed to be extra beefed up. And I'm sure, major, you could I, I just want to say that I was I was on vacation the last week before this, but Sergeant John Gibson, who did the ops plan with Assistant Chief Frank Ruggiero, really went through that thing and scrutinized it to make sure that we were on a good footing. And Sergeant Gibson, that it's a thankless job to coordinate ten different law enforcement agencies to come up here together. But he did a darn good job. He did getting that done. So I just wanted to say that publicly. Yeah, please, for him to the board that he did a darn good job getting that plan together. Please commend him on our behalf. You know, we also had the death of a of a president, a former president Carter, you know, politics aside, he is an example of someone who, you know, in the fourth quarter of their of his life was amazingly productive, whether it was habitat for humanity or, or, you know what, all the good things he did at the Carter Center. So, you know, that's always sad to lose a president. And so anyways, that's just a comment on that. And since I'm someone going into the fourth quarter of my life, I hopefully can be as I don't know if I can match that productivity, but I'll I'll do my best. So anyways, thank you very much. Thank you. I let's talk about the bayou lights. You know, this has been a couple of years in the making and what we told staff, hey, increase the budget. Let's get some more lights out there. Let's create this unity piece for the region to come to. And so I did help micromanage it a little bit, but it was it was all in good blessings for the community. So I think we got a scale that we can live up to in the future. So it's awesome to see because a lot of people are complimenting about it. There's also I want to send out a letter. I'm sending out a letter to past mayors these last few months. We've the city, the mayor's office has received many gifts that stay in the mayor's office. And so I'm going to send a letter out to some of the past mayors asking that, you know, any non personal gift items be returned back to the city, just in case. I think it's, you know, the mayor's office needs to be decorated. And so just giving you all a heads up, if there's any objections to that please let me know. But just want to make sure that that office is decorated into its fullest and showing the community and unity we have between other organizations and cities and everything involved. So I'm just letting you all know about that as well. I want to congratulate the whole Theofilopoulos family. It was a blessing to have the cross be a retriever. Someone from Tarpon Springs who's deeply rooted in the community. And congratulations to Luke Bullet, grandson of Father Trifon and who was a staple priest in the community for almost 30 years. So it's a great thing to see. And as the holiday season of epiphany, it's been staff's done the best job with security. And I said it's truly been an honor during this holiday season to serve as mayor and be part of these events. It's like I said at the last meeting, it's been one of the greatest times of my life. And I say it in a way where I can almost choke up thinking about it. And so I just appreciate you all and the opportunity that it was. And so it was just a huge blessing for me. And I can't thank you all this board enough, because it means a lot and I'll never forget it. So with that said, this concludes the regular session. Meeting. Meeting adjourned at 9:45 p.m.