##VIDEO ID:U770pQWV5ew## Order I wasn't aware that I was going to be running this meeting, so bear with me. All right. Call to order. Roll call. Roll call. Mr. Mrozinski. Here. Mr. Sprecher. Here Miss Kaplan. Here. Miss Howlett. Miss Ryan. Okay, we don't have too many people here, but is there anybody that has some comments that have nothing to do with the agenda and just have some questions? Nothing. Okay, minutes. We need to approve some minutes from June 3rd, 2024. Did everybody see those? Yeah. Anybody want to make a motion? I'll make a motion to approve the minutes as written. Do we have a second? Yes, I second. Okay. All right. We have a motion and a second. Are there any any discussion on that? No. Okay, then I'll take a vote. Miss Kaplan? Yes. Mr. Sprecher? Yes. Mr. Mrozinski. Yes. Okay. The first application 24 .5036 North Spring Boulevard for replacement windows. Unfortunately the applicant couldn't be here tonight. And my understanding is that she does not have an agent to present her, her case. So we, as a board, have an option. We could still hear the, applicant, you know, the application. We will not be able to ask the applicant any questions, obviously, because she's not here. So we could either move ahead with this application or we could postpone it for another month. What do you guys think? Just one question. Yeah. If we go ahead with it, can we postpone it anytime during the. Procedure? No, that's a good question. If I could. Yes You. Anytime during these hearings, if it comes to a point where it looks like additional information is needed or excuse me, Andrew Dickman for the record, I'm the one of your city attorneys. Sorry, yes, you could stop. And if someone wanted to have a motion to continue it to a date, certain, you could take that up if you felt like there was needed information. Now, in addition and maybe the chair was going to tell you this as well, because there's only three of you here that does constitute a quorum. But in order to have something approved, it has to be a majority of the board members, not a majority of the board members present. Three of us have to be right. So to prove it, it has to be an affirmative vote of all three of you. So, you may want to give applicants an opportunity if they come up to if they feel like they would rather have five or more than three. Yeah, okay. And thank you. I'm actually going to bounce back. I'm sorry, I, I missed the quasi judicial announcement and the swearing in. I'm sorry. Okay, great. Thank you, Mr. Chair, this is a both items on the agenda. Quasi judicial. You're right, this is a quasi judicial proceeding where the board acts in a quasi judicial rather than a legislative capacity at a quasi judicial hearing. It's not the board's function to make law, but rather to apply law. That has already been established in a quasi judicial hearing. The board, is required by law to make findings of fact based upon the evidence presented at the hearing, and applying those findings of fact to previously established criteria contained in your code in order to make a legal decision regarding the application before it, the board may only consider evidence at this hearing that the law considers competent, substantial, and relevant to the issues. If the competent, substantial, and relevant evidence at the hearing demonstrates that the applicant has met the criteria established in the Code of Ordinance, and the board is required by law to find in favor of the applicant. By the same token, if the competent, substantial and relevant evidence at the hearing demonstrates that the applicant has failed to meet the criteria established in the code, then the board is required by law to find against the applicant, so for your information, the there are two parties in these hearings. One is the city and one is the applicant, as you know, you, you know, expert testimony can come from your own, city staff experts, layperson testimony is acceptable as long as it's fact based, and when you conduct these meetings, firstly, anyone that has had any ex party communications or contact or information that might prejudice the application needs to disclose that openly here at the state law allows you to cure that. So if any of you have had any outside conversations about the application, went to the site and did your own research, things like that just disclose it to the record so that it's legally cured and then, of course, everyone who is going to testify here has to testify under oath. And I'd be happy to swear anybody in. Okay. Yeah Okay. I can ask you one more question on that. You said, you know, anybody doing their own research or going to the site that that's if you talk to somebody or can you go to the site and check it out yourself? You can and but you have to disclose it be disclosed. Yes. So if it's outside of what is in the packet, you know, so you're supposed to be here as an impartial decision maker without any additional information. So if you went to the site and you did some additional research, just say I visited the site and did some additional research and it's you're cured. Okay. So that if, if the if you just drive by it and look at it real hard, it's, it's so simple to say I drove by it, I looked at it, I knew I thought in my mind that that's coming up on the agenda, disclose it okay. When in doubt, disclose it. Disclose. Okay. I look at all, did did we, swear in the applicants? We have the first application, which is 2450. Is that the is the applicant. That's not that's not her. Okay. Do you do you want to just do everyone first or do we. Do it as we. I can do one at a time. That's fine. Yeah. Okay, then let's jump back to number one application 2450. As I was saying, the applicant, couldn't make it here today, and she does not have an agent. So, as I said before, it's kind of up to this board to decide if we want to move forward or if we want to, postpone it. But we just also found out that even if we go forward and at any point we want to postpone, we can. Correct. That's that's the way I understood it. That is true. Certainly. It would be better to keep the record clean and together if, if there was a request for continuance, if it happened before any dialog took place. But but as a general rule, that's true of your applications as you go forward, if it looks like you would need more information or there's a reason for asking for a continuance, like you, if you wanted to put a condition on on this, which you can, the applicant is not here to say, yeah, I agree to that or I don't agree to that. Right. So it may be fruitless to do that. If you want to know any one of three things, there may be a question and we should stop it. I agree with you. Okay. Yeah. Because I do have a couple of questions and you might be able to answer them, Carolyn, but I'd rather ask the applicant. Okay. I think this is too, too huge of a deal to just have us three. Yeah. To do it. So would you like to continue this item to next month. So I would make a motion to continue this to a date certain. So it doesn't have to be re-advertised. So, what's the date of that? The next meeting be ten. I don't I can't remember one second October 1st. No, I'm sorry, October seventh. October 7th. Yes, seventh. Okay. Seventh. Okay. So it'd be ten. Seven. Okay. I can make the motion. I make a motion to postpone this until October 7th. Do I have a second? Do I second any more discussion on that? No, I don't think so. You're good any more discussion? Okay. All right, let's take a vote, Miss Kaplan. Yes, Mr. Sprecher? Yes, Mr. Mrozinski. Yes Okay, and you'll let the applicant know. Okay. Thank you, okay. Next item on the agenda, application 2455 hibiscus House at 227 Hibiscus Street. Certificate of approval to install new metal roof. Is the applicant here? All right. The attorney will, swear you in and also swear in our city staff at the same time. Okay. Raise your right hand, please. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth? I all right, great, madam, do you understand that what we were talking about, the fact that there's a short board and yes, I did. Do you want to have a question to ask you about that? So if you could, I truly believe just in general at the microphone, please. I'm sorry. Thanks And could you and could you state your name and address? My name is Maureen Cravey. I live at 1504 Riverside Drive in Tarpon Springs, and I'm here representing Aries Roofing, I just have a question about that because as I understand, I have to have all three of you say, okay. And I truly, actually feel like you will say, okay, but, let's say you don't all say, okay, do I have an appeal process? You do. Yes, ma'am. Okay. So we're talking procedure here. We're not getting into substance. No, I know that procedurally, your your appeal would be to the board of commissioners. Okay. Okay. Well, that's what I was just trying to figure out. But you would have to file, you would have to file something within 20 days. Yeah. With the planning department. I know this is Carolyn. I'm kind of familiar with it, but, yeah. No, I'm teasing. No. Okay. And if she appealed, it would not come back to us. It goes to the. It would go to the board. Yeah. And they would either affirm deny or affirm with conditions. Okay okay. You wish to go forward or no or do we talk right now. No, no. Do you want to go forward with this? Yes I do want to go forward. Yes. Great. Okay. So then let me go through. We've sworn in the witnesses, let me read the quasi judicial. Yeah, I'm going to figure out a way to do this so that it's, covered covers everything. But give me bear with me, this is a quasi judicial proceeding where the board acts in a quasi judicial rather than a legislative capacity, in a quasi judicial hearing, the board is required to make findings of fact based on the evidence presented at the hearing. And apply those findings of fact to previously established criteria in the code. The board may only consider evidence at this hearing that the law considers competent, substantial, and relevant to the issue. So at this point, also, we want you to, if you have any ex parte information you want to disclos, I think now is the time to do it. For the record, I drove by the house. All right. Good Thank you. Anybody else? Nope. Okay then we are ready to go, Caroline Lanford, principal planner with the city of Tarpon Springs, we're presenting application 2455 for hibiscus House. This slide shows the location of, the subject property. It's located in the city's special area plan, here's the location of the subject property within the National Register Historic District. And the applicant is seeking a certificate of approval to remove the existing shingle roof and install a standing seam metal roof, so when I was doing the research on this property, I found some interesting things in the Sanborn map. So this is the 1913 Sanborn map, with the subject property, circled. And then if we look at the 1919 Sanborn map, additional structures have been built here. And then on the 1926 Sanborn map, we're seeing that the land has been cleared. So, the Florida master site file for this property lists it as circa 1919. But I am looking at the Sanborn map evidence. I don't know how accurate that is, this is the picture of the subject property in the Florida master site file. And this is the facade today, as you can see, it's a frame vernacular structure, again, we're not quite sure of the date. I'm thinking probably right around 26, 27, note the, decorative decorative pattern shingles on the gable front, and this is showing it, from the north side and giving some neighborhood context from the north, some additional context here and showing some context from looking south. And you'll note that we have one of our most famous buildings, right there in the background. And here's some additional context view of Sout, the proposed product is, you know, a standard standing seam metal roof. And really the applicable standards for review with this particular application is really the neighborhood and district context. The roof shape and texture, the architectural features and adherence to the Secretary's guidelines. So with respect to the character of the property, I'm off my game here a little bit, so there are no alterations to the roofline that are mentioned in the application. The change in materials from shingles to standing seam would alter, the, the streetscape. And the appearance of it, however, the building to the south has a shingle roof. The building immediately north has a metal roof, and there are both shingle and metal roofs extant throughout the district. And in the immediate vicinity, and with a frame vernacular structure. A metal roof is typically what they were originally. It was either, typically a metal roof or asbestos shingles. And now commonly they're mostly found with composite shingle roofs. So this again, the street shape streetscape would be altered and it's up to the CFPB to determine if that alteration is significantly adverse with respect to materials. Obviously there would be a change of material since we don't have it on the Sanborn map. We really don't know what that original material of the roof is, but it would be a change from what's there today. With respect to the historic features should be repaired rather than replaced. So again, we don't know if this was always a shingle roof or not. But it would be, replacing rather than repairing what's there, and then again, to not destroy historic materials. Now, obviously this this roof is probably not original to the home. So it would not be those historic materials, but are they appropriate? Yes And that's what's been there for a while. So that's the view shed that we've become accustomed to and has become historic. So, going on to our guidelines, we always want to retain and repair a historic roof when it's feasible. But if all the roofing material is going to be removed, it's most important that it's consistent with the architectural style, and we have two view requests for substitute roofing materials on a case by case basis, so again, as I was noting with the frame vernacular structure, the roofs are typically gabled or hipped and were usually originally standing seam or asbestos shingles, but they frequently now have composite shingles. So based on a very strict interpretation of the code and guidelines, I'm recommending denial. However if the board would approve the application, staff is recommending that we add the condition that the historic roof line must be maintained, and then our boilerplate of the certificate of approval will expire in three years. If a building permit has not been issued. And with that, I can take any. Oh, I'll enter my presentation and staff report as evidence and have any questions. Okay. Do you guys have any questions for Carolyn? Either one of you? Okay. I do. Can a case be made for a standing seam roof, that it would be appropriate. I know you said you don't know what it was originally, unfortunately. How could you? That's. Well usually I find it. I don't know, you should be able to. Yeah, right. Yeah And you do? I do usually wonderfully. But is it possible? When did you say this house was built? 27 or 26, I think I'm thinking probably right around then. Yeah. Would there have been standing seam metal roofs back then? Yes. So conceivably this house originally could have had one could have. Okay. So I think it's not as egregious as if, you know, you were going to put a metal roof on a mission style building. Right? It's, it's it was a frame vernacular. We have plenty of frame vernaculars on the block even that this house is on that has I saw the one photo here. Yeah. There's one right there. Yeah. Okay is there are there any other questions from you guys? No, no. Fine okay. I'm going to turn it over to the applicant to give your presentation. Yes sir, so what I did was drive by like you. And so I did notice there are seven standing seam metal roofs on that same road. Okay, there might have been 2 or 3 shingles. And, of course, just like Miss Carolyn said, and I have the same paper in front of me, and of course, that she sent out that were, of course we're not going to put asbestos shingles back on it. It could go with the shingle that's up there, but really a standing seam metal roof. Not only does it go just as Carolyn said with that period of time and as you drive around Tarpon and look a lot of older, older homes, you'll see that. But it's also it's really going to increase the property value. And it's actually stronger in protecting your roof. So when we go through our storms, which of course we constantly do, now we've got a roof that not only is true to that era, it will not change the pitch or any of the view of it. It's still going to look exactly the same, but at least it will be, a stronger, more valuable add to the value of the roof because it's because it is a standing seam metal roof. So that's what we're just pointing out. We just feel like especially since I'm like, just like Miss Carolyn just said, we don't know for sure, but we do know for sure there were lots of standing seam metal roofs during that time. And I know that there are seven on that on that road. So we just respectfully ask that you approve it and allow us to, replace the shingled roof right now with a standing seam metal roof. And we don't feel like it'll, you know, it'll hurt the heritage of anything because I think it's pretty much goes straight along line with all of that. Okay. Thank you. Okay Any questions from the board? I have 1 or 2, I this roof. I looked at the drawings. It is literally a standing seam roof. Correct. Because I've seen metal roofs that are just kind of wavy. They kind of wavy and go, no, this is a standing seam that they're going to be putting on there. And you're talking about the pitch of the roof. No, no, no, I'm talking about the actual material. Yeah. That's exactly what Matt said. Yeah. That's what it looks like in the drawing. I know what you're saying. Yes. Okay I've also seen metal roofs on houses where they literally look like it was just dropped on top where the eaves are now changed. And. Yeah, the whole look of the house has changed because it has this extra four inches or whatever sitting on top of it. So none of that's going on. So I, I don't want to say something when I don't actually have that exact information. Like what you're saying, but I can give to you or we can bring to you exactly what it's going to be because I believe Matt, the way he explained it to me is we're just putting it back as a standing seam metal roof. Matt couldn't be here tonight. Matt house that owns roofing. So he asked me to come and he said that it will look just like a standing seam metal roof. There's not going to be anything weird about it or larger about it or anything else. I mean, he'll be and he knows because, I mean, we are a roofing company. I mean, he owns it and we are a roofing company. So the I'm assuming the existing roof will be removed. Yes, sir. Okay And there'll be no changes into the of the roof line or any nothing gables that might be there. No, sir. Nothing is changing with the appearance. Nothing is changing at all with the appearance. We're simply taking off the shingles, putting on a standing seam metal roof. True to that period of time. And that's it. Okay but again, I can give you or I can get for y'all whatever you want. As far as samples and looking at it or, you know, whatever, we wouldn't be able to do that for tonight. Unfortunately. No, no, I I'm going to go by the drawings that are in the application okay okay. So obviously if this is approved that's what it has to it has to look like. Correct, sir. Okay. Do you guys have any other questions to the applicant? All right. To stay legal here I have to ask if the vast audience has any questions. Okay. It doesn't look like they do. So I'm going to close public comment. And I'm going to close comments to the staff unless you guys have one more question. Okay. All right. We're going to close those comments. Now it's up to us to discuss it. But before we do, we're going to need a motion and a second so we can discuss it. Okay. I'll motion to discuss it. Well, to it's a it's a would be a motion to either approve or not. All right. You could change your mind. No. Okay. I will, put forth a motion to approve. Is that what that that would work? And do we have a second, approve as written with the condition? Yes. Okay Okay. The second. Yes. Okay let's discuss it then. Okay What do you guys think? Okay. Well, you know, the lack of the lack of, houses, you know, they have both of them. And like you said, they don't know which one it is, right? It sits, you know, either one of those work. So I think it's, you know, up to the homeowner, on their preference, what they'd like to because it's both of them are acceptable, you know. Okay. And, it's up to them. That's that's where the weight should fall. As far as the decision we're here to sort of make that decision if we just left it up to the owner all the time, there'd be no reason for us. They still got to come. Okay? Okay But what I'm saying is, you know, you could it could be either a oh, I see. Okay, I understand ten or the other one, you know. So now the weight should be with them because I think what we have to look at with this board with any applicant is if it's appropriate. Right. I think that's the word we have to be looking at here, so you would feel that it would be appropriate. Do you have any thoughts? I think it would be appropriate. Yeah okay. Then if you guys don't have any more discussion among us here, I will entertain a, motion. You have a motion on the floor. I'm sorry. There's a motion on the floor to approve. So now we just vote on it, right? So the motion on the floor is to approve with, the conditions that staff has recommended. Correct. Carolyn. Thank you. Yes, thanks for that clarification. I would have got it. That's okay. You got it. You're doing great. Thank you. Doing good. Yeah. All right, well, let's take a vote. Okay. Miss Kaplan, yes, I approve, Mr. Sprecher. Yes, Mr. Mrozinski, I approve also. All right, so it passes. Thank you. I have a total side note. My husband was an FFA advisor for many years, and he taught parliamentary procedure. So it's just funny to watch people doing it because those kids were good to go to contest all the time. And my husband, he's passed away. But my husband's kids, they were excellent. So let's go to them next month here. Okay. Do they have FFA here? I don't even know if they have it in Future Farmers of America. I was in FFA. Oh, were you in FFA? Well then that's why you know PA Pro there you go. Okay. Yes, sir. Oh, no. We're oh am I done? I was gonna say we're done with you. Oh, okay. You're done with me. That sounded terrible, though. Thank you. Thank you all very much. Thank you. Thank you for coming. Thank you, any staff comments, any more comments from the staff? So I do. Well, it's not really a comment. It's kind of a question to the attorney we did have on our agenda to do, elections. Did we not? Kim. Well, it's not on the new one. Yeah, I don't see it on the, I didn't either. Okay. And there really isn't an election you're talking about chair. Vice chair? Well, I would probably wait till you have the other members here do that. Okay, well, look forward to that next month. Since you brought it up. And we're able to ask you questions. Why? Why did the chair that was just elected a few months ago, why is there another election, she got ill. And so she had to resign due to. Is she leaving the committee? Yes, she's resigned from the committee. So Oh, she resigned due to ill health. Okay All right. Any other questions for staff? No. From you guys. Any comments? Any board comments, anything you guys want to throw out? Pretty good. All right, the only comment I think I have is, I remember it's probably been more than a year now. Carolyn. We had talked about having like a meeting maybe when there wasn't a big agenda to discuss what we really we can do and what we can't do, what our power is. You know, I remember I don't know if you remember that, but we talked about it quite a while ago, and we never we never had that meeting. So it's something I want us to think about. I think that's great. I think that's a good idea, I do actually have something else to report to you guys, the state of Florida now finally does have a full time, permanent, certified local government employee again to oversee the certified local government program, which we didn't have for a couple of years there, which made getting training for our boards and things a little more difficult. So we have that to look forward to that we're going to have some more resources from the state. Wonderful, and that brings up another question that you don't have to answer tonight, but it would be something for that meeting that I think we should have at some point. Okay. We just approved a standing seam roof for that person. What if, when they go to do it, it's not what we approved. Who? Who is watching that now, that's actually something you know, that we're dealing with topically right now. And a couple of cases, before the building department is issuing final permits and codes and things like that. I am now, or Pat is going out and inspecting to make sure. Wonderful that it is what it is. So they don't get those final. I, I'm not going to mention any names, but when I did my addition and the inspector was coming out, I actually asked him, do you want to see the drawings? His or her comment was, if you're signed off by historic, that's all I care about. Well, frankly, I could have done anything and he probably would have approved it. I didn't. I did it according to the to the approved plan. So that was something that's sort of always bugged me. So I do think there has been kind of a gap between planning and the building department, and particularly with historic preservation. And I think we are making some really positive strides to close that gap. Okay, good. Well, if there aren't any other comments or questions, no, we are adjourned at 706. That's a good one. All right.