##VIDEO ID:nkUnfFlQyMQ## e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e yeah good to go Kim you ready okay so um call to order the uh Planning and Zoning meeting for Monday December 16th 2024 um can do roll call can you hear me so Mr cuscus is out Mr VY is out is out Miss Frances here Mr Rockin here miss early here miss swon here miss Weaver here and um should we do attorney di a vote to motion to excuse the absences to to do what a motion to excuse the absences yeah yeah it' be fine yeah second yes well we're that's the Motions for so yes you want to take the roll call came um what was the motion I'm sorry to excuse the to excuse those that are that are okay who made the motion myself and I seconded okay are you allowed to check second as a chair I I think so do the Pledge of Allegiance uh Mr vessie is not here to do the invocation Mr rockline would you like to yes thank you chairman chairwoman uh let's just all remember that this time of year is about giving uh because to some degree we all receive uh sometimes it's just automatic and you don't notice it anymore but the giving has to be conscious the giving has to be uh originated in inside oneself and uh giving to our city that we know and love and chose to live uh is a privilege and uh I think it's something that we all feel that we need to do that we want to do and that in itself is a blessing because the volunteerism you know civically is is notably low but uh let's wish for peace and health and happiness for all those in the community and the continued recover from those who struggled from the storms um we only have uh one thing on the agenda tonight um under ordinances and resolutions ordinance 20241 uh Land Development code Amendment amending article 7 Heritage preservation and providing for creation of neighborhood conservation overlay districts application 22 2- 1112 which is a legislative item and um Pat okay um this is uh an ordinance to be added to article 7 your heritage preservation article in the Land Development code um for adding to the um uh ability to create something called a neighborhood conservation overlay uh you have seen and discussion in April and and then a later more developed draft in uh September of this this year uh so this is coming back with a final draft um you well this went to the uh Heritage preservation board on uh Monday um [Music] December 2nd I think um at the last HPB meeting so they have reviewed it uh they had one recommended change um but just to kind of recap what the purpose is this is really a framework for recognizing and preserving historic and cultural character and identity in existing developed areas um and that is part of the purpose uh that's stated on page 23 in section 11801 so it's kind of intended to be a a historic light if you will um this is to provide the ability to start to preserve some of these neighborhood characteristics without immediately going to a full-blown very specific very detailed historic district like the one which is what we have downtown the historic district so it's a little as stringent um right now it's starting with uh um uh guiding Demolition and addition new additions and new construction so that's kind of the the first things on the list that we have to choose from and it goes from there to establish standards where the community would choose to regulate more if they want to or or not um the format of this element uh is set up really to to provide a process it uses the the existing framework uh very well so it it it's a good um method to get in in place to set up set up this process uh each neighborhood conservation overlay would be adopted as a new District or new overlay in article 7 um and then the tables that are on in section 118 toward the end the ordinance like page 2324 those would be amended when a new uh NCO is is um established and the ncao would State hey we want to regulate demolition um we want to regulate new construction we also want to regulate uh doors and windows or something like that um that that's kind of where it's going so the article would be amended each time an overlay is added um the existing certificate of appro appropriateness process is the one that that's established to be used I mean it doesn't mean that a future neighborhood conservation overlay can't if it goes this far designate their own board or their own review process but in the absence of that um we've got the um existing process that can be used to uh to um Carry Out the NCO purpose and um there could be guidelines or not but we do have an existing working framework with with a board that reviews these things um frequently new addition demolitions and and write down to signs um all all the fences all those things so we do have a good framework in place um we did received comments from um uh Tina baves uh she provided written comments and the responses are in your packet I'll be glad to answer any questions on that we also provided verbal comments um at the uh Heritage preservation board meeting uh they had this at two of their meetings the first one was November 4th from Cindy terapan and then she followed up with some written comments at the last meeting um one change we did note uh that she she pointed out was the 500 foot mailed radius for appeals still said 200 feet we had changed all the mailed notice um radi couple years ago probably 2018 um and that one was missed so uh we went ahead and made that Revision in the ordinance before you tonight as on page 12 um and then there were uh additional comments uh really that we had most of our discussion at HPB was about the uh 51% of property owners how they weigh in on these ncos the uh Heritage preservation board specifically ask that on page six I believe yeah page six this is section 108 C and 108d 108 c um applies for to petitioning for designation it calls for 51% of the land area um and then 108d uh talks about providing evidence of support uh from at least 51% of the owners HPB wanted those to be consistent and they wanted to use owners so that was the only change they recommended um as they as we discussed at hbb one one feature of this uh you may have noticed is uh all of these designations this is just being added um to the types of designations you can do landmarks sites historic districts now neighborhood conservation overlay they all require a legal published notice um to uh for the HPB and a public hearing at HPB uh they all have to be done by ordinance so that means you would hold you would also uh this board would have legal public notice and a hearing and then the Board of Commissioners have two hearings for ordinances so so there's a lot of process and hearings uh that would go on with these um just wanted to kind of point that out um and I I don't really have anything else I think most of you are familiar with um and and those that aren't I mean this whole thing kind of started uh kind of um evolved from the Greek Town um sponged Talk study that we did this idea was put forward it sounded like a great idea to get a framework in place to start to protect um different neighborhoods that might want to come in um and and uh look at preserving their identity their character so that's how this started so I'll be glad to answer any questions or go through the ordinance you want to do this thank you Pat um any questions for staff anybody else I just have um one question did something change I know we reviewed it a couple times and then went to HPB um and I think there's something in there about 51% of the land owners like that's not Property Owners but like people that own 51% of I guess the land of the and I'm not sure if maybe I just missed that in the beginning or if that changed along the way well um actually okay so on pages five and six uh talks about the process for designating uh an NCO that's section 108 okay section c is who can petition for this who can petition the the basically the Board of Commissioners to do this one of then the choice that's written there one of the choices is um owners of basically 51% of the land area Okay and then the next section is um that the designation the the petition should include 51% uh of affected Property Owners okay support from so they do kind of conflict a little bit MH because you know it's a 10 acre District five people on five of the acres and 25 people on the other you know it would it would be different as far as what a majority would be whether you use land area or number of owners and is there a distinction between commercial and residential no not not in this so whoever's proposing their overlay geographic area would include everything unless I mean I I think that if there isn't a distinction I feel like it would completely die without a distinction between res because the the priorities are so different I mean yeah and an overlay could be proposed as only regulating residential or commercial I I don't see why not that would be one of the criteria I me because I mean remember the last meeting I think it was broken into Greek Town and the sponge doog so like that was the distinction was the doc sponge was the commercial GRE to was the residential I think that was a good compromise yeah because I think we'll get more accomplished I don't want to see all this work go to nothing with combining the two yeah we spent too much money and too much time going back and forth you know yes P wouldn't the Border then be adaptable to be set to what you know uh the land owners would like it to be in other words they would have the opportunity to include or exclude uh you know slivers say excluding residential or the residential people excluding commercial so it would become its you know they would they would be ownership of what the district would be and why more or less I mean this sets up the framework but I think that's what we heard right at the GRE at the Greek toown um workshops especially is yeah that the landos C owners uh want to really weigh in on on the geographic area what's regulated how much right so yeah the Greek Town sponge dob you know differentiate is a perfect example and the land area that's that could be problematic because you could have one property owner that owns 51% of vacant land and then you have you said 40 other property owners that own little slivers and guess what that one person with the one business on all that unused area would have the most say so I think there needs to be some sort of better balancing or or better definition or you know agreement that people are aware of what it could you know yeah and we could we could even provide that information so um you know yeah depending on the geographic areas so let's say we we we wanted to hear from 51% of the people um in that geographic area we could easily um pull those and this stuff is all pulled from property appraiser and say you know here's some extra information you know Mr E Mr Jones owns you know five acres and you know Mrs Smith owns you know a 5,000 foot lot like that so that's just extra information that can I interrupt you I just I just want to ask do we have a procedure by which Property Owners will designate who the voting person is for that property or that business like a uh it would have to be owners and we would use the property appraiser without records whoever wherever the tax bill goes the owner listed owner of the property well I mean if you have four owners of a property who's voting whoever they designated as their spokesperson no that's what I meant ra a good point yeah do we have a form so so yeah and Andrew can jump in if we need I the way I picture this is um you know we we either they get authors you know some kind like we do right now for an affidavit for for everything you guys look at we get an owner affidavit if somebody wants to apply and they're not the owner and we check to see is that the listed owner on property appraiser if it's an LLC we go to sunbiz and say you know and if there's a question we we look it up or we call them or or whatever yeah there's usually an agent but I think the intent is one vote per property right is that the intent so that's why I'm asking if there's a definition section or something like that we can put that in there to be clear because frequently there are many people on deed and or it could be a corporation and how deep into that Corporation do you really want to go so I think we need to make it absolutely clear that it means one vote for per what either parcel or whatever the definition is under the under the property appraiser okay we can do that and and also the this um 51% applies to the petition it is not a requirement to pass the ordinance so I don't know how you know detailed we get we get on you know trying to follow this owner Trail um I think you know we would rely on on the people then the appraiser the data we have we wouldn't probably dive too deep into it if the board wanted to Board of Commissioners wanted to they they could go down that road but this is just to bring a petition forward M swon did you no yeah better uh so is this altering the process for a citizen in the district to apply for some kind of variance or is the variance ordinances somewhere else uh the it would not alter the the um Ci's variance uh process under u under the board of adjustment okay so this is strictly just uh changing basically lines on a map for inclusion or exclusion this is setting up a process by which someone can propose a out lines on a map yes okay okay thanks and just want to point out too that to attorney Dickman's point you know that's I think why um Mr Terry pany had pointed out that that that's kind of not the norm to have the property owners vote themselves in because it does get rather complicated because they're not all in llc's and you don't know like the property that my family has is four people and it's they're not on the property you know it's it's kind of an inv invitation to a mess and then you have property for sale down there if someone buys that all of a sudden they own the most and they just walked in so um I don't know if I think when we initially looked at it it sounded like it was a good idea because we hadn't like known and then when we found out that downtown just was put in there by somebody else so I think that she made a really good point that that's just not how it's usually done again I don't want all the work that we've put in to try to be organized and and create a district to be for nothing because it's made too complicated like in the past right mhm so just suggestions I mean and yeah again this is for the petition I mean and it was pointed out that the board is not obligated to vote it in even if 51% of land owners and Property Owners even choose it the board doesn't have to do that that's in there as well right yeah yeah that's right and then um any more questions for staff public comments nobody here just so so I do want to mention that that you all are the local planning agency and your job not only is to be The Keeper of the comprehensive plan but also Your Land Development regulations this is a part of your code which is the Land Development regulations and so uh I think it I think where wherever you fall down on this if you're going to make a take a vote with a recommendation and if there's um part of that has to do with this 51% then I think we need to make that clear but I do think you need to have a formal vote on it so yeah you know and do we have motion before we do comments is that yeah so is it is it my it's my understanding that [Music] you're that the 51% property ownership uh uh piece of this is does not seem to um it's Troublesome be favorable to you all that maybe it should come out or that without you want you want to vote if you say you want to vote and uh recommend approval of this ordinance without the 51% ownership uh um caveat or or part and and I think was the radius also changed on that okay so so um trying to see so theit preservation board public hearing it's it's published in the newspaper and all the affected property owners are notified by by first class male so so instead of a male radius um and we didn't yeah Renee didn't put a radius in here she just got she we has put so all the owners so whether we have support from 51% or not they're going to get this notice um so that that maybe addresses part of it um you could take it out uh you could maybe let the board could uh have have the ability to wave it if they want to do that or um you could maybe say um the Board of Commissioners may ask staff to um I don't know poll or obtain a a vote of 51% if they want to when they get to that I mean there's different things you could do if you don't want to take it all the way out but they do every property owner would get the notice and they'd get that at the address on property appraiser so am I out of turn if I ask a question s staff comments okay yeah so so thinking that doesn't have a radius and it just has a percentage let's take harpon Avenue how many owners do we have not business owners Property Owners you mean residential no just business owners I'm tarping oh yeah how many I I don't know because I'm concerned that in some areas we have a monopoly of business owners and 51% I mean we have some people that own a lot of property and do they squeeze out the others that might have they're only still only get one vote they get one vote but they only get one vote even if they have okay I understand they only get one vote if four people own a property but if they own 10 properties do they get a vote per property yes one per property but it's not a criteria for making a designation so this is just for submitting it right this is simply that's this is like who can initiate it so you the the HPB board can initiate it this is just about initiating it so Pat is it I think maybe the distinction is that it's not the way that it comes off is these are the people that can make it but I think it's saying is there any support does do people want this right yeah the idea right but I think it's not coming off that way like I I think that's because and then there's like but also a nonprofit can which clearly they're not going to just say that they're support that's somebody who wants to like probably start you know P push push this through so and I think I think that's the the issue here is that that's the distinction is it dies if we don't get that right and I don't think that I don't know if it maybe needs to be almost like separate from what I'm saying like because like we've had Tina come down which you know Miss Bales who's for the Greek Town you know but I don't know if everyone in the you know Union like that they've been like notified you know especially with everything going on and then the CRA is kind of like an odd it's such a you know we just recently went over that which is very thorough now I I just learned all those boundaries myself myself mhm and the newspaper is technically the requirement but must be real no one's looking at the newspaper see these things are coming out I know so I mean we really want like with the new city manager trying to do all this Redevelopment and we're going to throw this in the mix I just want to make sure that like everything wouldn't want we've put a lot of work into this I don't want it to go like to you know just maybe like like a separate motion to pursue like you know I don't know if with to the interest before it goes to the bocc because I just don't feel like the proper parties have been notified it seems like it's kind of one district and the other two are just kind of there and it just go right through and all these other districts are just wrapped into it now of a sudden are you talking about doing that for this ordinance before you tonight well I don't know I'm just asking I mean this is pretty important from what T dick want to make sure the vision was that it could be used for other parts of the city Union Academy in particular and it's just setting up our framework it doesn't really do anything in fact so then like there's going to be like I guess maybe the platform like what happens next you know because this is like the first time we've ever done it right so what's next I think that's the what's next is uh if this passes uh it's in the the process is now in article 7 okay because like my fear is like what's next everybody has to come here to paint their door yeah someone would have to then propose an overlay that would be the next step I don't know who when or okay what that is at this point um yeah like next steps or something like that add maybe like what's next or something I think it's like a first time we've done anything like this ever right yeah I mean it's like a historic district but like I say it's historic light it's it's just a um but the historic district was put in here what you're um well the national was 1990 I believe and then local was 2010 I believe so so and yeah I mean I just want I guess to know the process because people are just when you watch the historic preservation meetings they're very like it's a lot like you know looking at windows and affording you know this is $100,000 they want them to pay $300,000 and that's really terrifying to anybody yeah so which is why we kept the table so simple if people want to add that in later for the overlay they're proposing that's fine if [Music] not yes yeah I mean some of the stuff some of the areas you all were concerned about during the comp plan South pelis um I don't know if this is something that could be used in areas north of the the river that kind of thing South pelis is a good example of there's a lot of older buildings there um that could be an overlay that starts to try to plan and address for the mix of annex and not annexed you know you've got some County standards that are pretty intense along that Corridor I mean it could be used this is putting the framework in place to to have some other mechanism to be able to to kind of mold into what you want for your character identity of your district and and T answer kind of your point um I would say um so we've started under CRA I haven't heard anything and and I'm kind of talking out of my because I'm just peripherally involved with that haven't heard anything about expanding the boundaries of the current C just trying to expand trying to reup it so extended so we can go past 2030 is that possible to expand the boundaries um yeah but I think I I think it is but I think it's going to be enough work to get it through the county to ask for 10 more years so that and so the rest of the the docks um you know there's part of that's that's in the CRA but but not a big part the rest of the docks like you're saying just the residential maybe that's an overlay by itself if commercial wants to do maybe that's one by itself um you know on once this uh CRA and smart code revision start to start to kind of where we're going to be we're starting on that pretty fast start to play out and kind of fall out where they are then I think we can see do we need conservation overlay um and and if so where you know so I think having then we will already have this mechanism in place if we want to if there really is an issue we want to tweak it again later we can okay um I mean if you notice doing this NCO we've gone back and changed a couple things like the 500 foot certificate of approval really should be certificate of appropriateness none of us can figure out why it was a chang everyone else in the whole world including this so we took the opportunity to change a few more things no reason we can't do that again um yeah is it ready for a motion are we willing to make a motion well I think we need to to do just to discuss it just to discuss even if so anyone want um do you want to I mean with regard to the 51% if you have a concern about it um obviously there's been some concern expressed and other from others you could you know vote that way like if overall you're in favor of this ordinance uh but have a general concern that needs to be expressed to the Board of Commissioners then you would state it like that um I don't think I think staff could probably come up with either just delete it or rephrase it or use it for something else I'm not sure I don't think you have to come up with the solution here unless you just want to say delete it I mean and we can but so just to discuss it someone make a motion to yeah so I I I'll I'll make that motion uh to approve application number 22-12 and ordinance 2024-the conser conservation overlay districts with concern uh as far as the definition and Clarity of the 51% of whether be land owners Property Owners or participating businesses or or homes therein okay the board discussion we start at the end and then we never we never start that on that side so so so so we've just basically made a motion now to consider it further or we're not deleting that piece out of the document is what you're saying so so to discuss it all at all we have to make a motion even if we're even if we don't want to approve it at all so Mr rockline already okay made the motion with that in the condition and we can we can clear it up but I mean it's it's a legislative item so I think it's just it's we're we don't have to vote for it we can amend it we can someone can make a new motion but we can discuss it now that it's been seconded so the the other concern was that who's who's actually enforcing this the city staff the St City staff City staff yeah the Land Development code is enforced by the okay so so once it's enacted um City staff's responsible for either denying or approving or s or um what's the word that you use it would go to the historic board first yeah so so what you do or not yes so so right now you're making you're the motion is to to recommend to the Board of Commissioners an action you want them to uh move it forward to approve it deny it or uh you could you can ask them to um to move it forward but you have concerns and I've got uh what Mr rockline has in his motion if the ordinance is passed it's like anything else in the Land Development code staff administers and enforces the provisions of the code in this case um the this the NCO is a process so staff would create an application take in applications uh these things uh would probably go um I can't remember if she put TRC at the technical Review Committee um it would go there if it specifies we would schedule it um advertise it for public hearing before the Heritage preservation board and and then it would come before that it has to be an ordinance it would come before you and it would come uh before the Board of Commissioners so staff would um when someone propos n staff would carry it through the process I'm trying to understand where this differentiates um from the the process right now it's a different uh District so the process right now only applies to the local historic district already established in the city this is different because um if you look uh let me just flip through to if you look at Pages 8 and nine8 to yeah8 and nine you're going to see a long list of things that the historic board looks at when they look at an app application that's the process that's in place this one would um puts a process in place that um does not have that detailed list it can become detailed if if whoever's proposing the overlay wants to to propose that if the board wants to do that but um the process in place only applies to the existing historic district so this is expanding the districts uh this would provide a process for someone to propose a new District do we do do we feel like we that our historic board is is at a point with their board members to handle the potential that's that's not really up for our discussion tonight so that's not really what we're being asked to vote on at the time so yeah and so technically we're past I mean it's kind of a nice night where nobody's here but technically staff you know questions are over most like board discussion but you I mean and just to attorney Dickman just to clarify for legislative we kind of have to just vote the way it is or not the way it is I mean we can't condition it is that I mean we can say what we yeah you can recommend you can you are a recommending body so your job is to recommend so right now the motion on the table is to approve the or orance with um with direction from staff that there is a concern about the 51% right um provision and that perhaps they'll come up with something more definitive about it now you can do your own word crafting if you want to do it here or that's thing so we don't have to keep like if we can discuss but as long as Robert's motion is on the we can discuss anybody else's you know type of what however you want to say it but but but for tonight's purposes we don't we can't vote like the other considerations as far as like is the board able you know to do that it's not really under our purview tonight to the historic board whether they can handle uh yeah I their job is I mean you really have to not think about who's on the board you have to think about like what the board's powers are in in the code because that's how it's set up is for that board to take on a number of different responsibilities just like your responsibilities are expressed in the in the code as well but I think one of her questions or concerns if from not speaking is that not all areas are going to be historic area they're going to have overlays and they're going to have requirements but they're not going to have you know so not everything is always going to go through s correct so so the ordinance uses the existing framework doesn't set up a new framework the historic when when you when someone proposes an overlay when the board if the board adopts an overlay it's going to have a list of items to be reviewed it may or may not have guidelines it'll have standards for those right now we have a board that reviews uh structureal basically structural architectural and those types of of items and that is our heritage preservation board so that's the board we would use like I said if there was a need for a new or different board uh that could be addressed when the overlays established you know you use not that we may do this immediately but you were even saying you can have templates for new areas I'm sorry I can't quite hear what think we were talking about you could even have these templates for all different areas and some areas could be like a new little suburban community why would they need the Heritage that's what this is a template I think it's the vocabul I think it's the words that are it's the word I think it's that the only board that we have is the Heritage it it's not that it's actually historic or right I mean you know it kind of came about more for historic areas but um I'm not sure I I mean if you're talking say the single family neighborhoods west of the Bayou I guess this could be used for that I'm not sure I think yeah I'm not sure what you would question I I would say that's probably not real likely that's what I'm saying is exactly what you're saying that's not an area where you would use I mean I would be concerned if we had to use the board for that that group for all different entities in this in this in our in our city because their expertise is really focused you know they could be experts in a lot of different areas but we're not going to set those tougher requirements I wouldn't think we'd have templates but in other areas of the city Miss early did you have a why would anyone want I don't think we can hear you why would anyone want or desire what's the what's to be a part of the district why why would you want that as a business a good question I'm no what no it is a good question okay it's a lot so um yeah huh no but it's so I think I think the the thing here is that if this is something that's wanted we might consider creating a board that could handle something like this if there's a need if there's a there's a demand for it right I think Mr vessie brought up in Duneden they have that like what was it that I think it was Rene was here and Mr Salman for the like the sun the sky like the sunset view or whatever like you have to see the sunset in your neighborhood or something you know what I mean so no one can build the house over there right and so his point was like well why do we have to in a historic but neighborhood to have a our own separate rules for where we live right and so then everybody could have their own clearly that would burden historic preservation board any historic preservation board not not you know not counting whoever's on there right now all our boards you know that's a different that's a separate issue but I think if there's a desire for it then that we would go from there that that maybe there could be another board because if there's nobody that wants it right based on the 51% and it dies I think is the kind of what would happen right like this this whole ordinance came forward because um the identity and character of Greek Town the residential area sponged dos the commercial area and and Union Academy an area that's not in a flood zone largely uh there's some danger of gentrification there uh you're getting some demolitions and rebuilds over there th those types of things so so so we did hear that there are people out there that do want it that's the whole reason it's came forward now you know when one is proposed then it'll work through the process and and you'll get down to the nitty-gritty of you know do the people that live in the area proposed really want it and if they do under what circumstances what standards uh what level which is why we only started with new construction and demolition so technically like an entirely different group could come through the CRA and apply it doesn't even not even named in here right like the Southside I mean it doesn't really apply to just one group these are just the ones that are identified so it's a frame work for if it's ever needed and if it's not needed then it just goes away right yes okay and then so I I guess and that's just talking through it because it's never had one before I'm just trying to understand it as well so I think that's a good question you know I mean if there was a lot of people that would want it maybe they'd be here tonight [Laughter] but no I mean I I truly I just I'm sitting here thinking what is the draw I mean what is the benefit of being a part of a historic district I mean what's the benefit why would they want it well I mean what the city I mean there's this so I mean so where I live and I live in the residential area of Greek toown and all the homes are a certain way you know and they're but they have been sold and they're still that way and there is a new home that doesn't look like that and I've been by her house she's a very nice lady and with Christmas lights it looks just the same as everybody else's house okay but you know it it's to keep that character of the framework of the the porches and everything like that so I mean and this is a very odd house but but here's the thing once you that's new develop you put that on everybody it's expensive as you know that's the HPB those people you know they now people that buy those homes are voluntarily buying into that knowing that that's what they're doing right here we would be voluntarily asking you know to put restrictions on ourselves which is yeah I mean we have yeah the C area to um generalized but there's a lot different socioeconomic area in a lot and I mean you got to be reasonable in expectations not that they can't do it in some of the areas but um some them haven't they're not developed at all I mean I mean we're not going to worry about the kind of Windows that they put on as long as windows are safe that's what I would assume you know we're not going to ask them to put the wood windows that costs three times as much and last half as long um in the but but we're kind of being better at in the I think I think that when Pat said the the origination of this came from one area and I think that is a concern because it's listing multiple areas and you know they're not here and those are not to me they're very underdeveloped some not developed at all I mean so they'd be putting restrictions on business districts that don't even exist yet so the res I thought this is meant for areas that are mostly developed have some kind of character and identity that's definable um usually it would be establish areas maybe you know it's not I mean I don't want to say certain areas can't apply for one but it's not really meant for West of The Bu use and newer neighborhoods there's there's really no need that I can identify to have have something this used for something like that and I think it's important to remember that we're just considering the process to provide people the opportunity to create something if they so choose if they have a preponderance of land owners and and if they feel it's important enough that they want to Galvanize or Define their particular area so this is just creating the the opportunity it's not going forward with the formal process who's going to govern it who's going to enforce it it's just saying if you feel you want to do this you know it's it's like the the phone number for a pizza rear you know here it is if you want a pizza call an order do you want it delivered or picked up that's up to you we're not forcing Pizza on anybody it's just the process yeah I mean don't think about the person that necessarily brought it up think about the opportunities it provides to other people you know how we how we to their this OPP uh we as we work with some of these neighborhoods assuming this this passes that that opportunity will be um provided um you know in community um the new city manager Eng you know has you know basically said that he's you know does like something called like a road show where he brings out you know that's what we did to no um so the board the board will it's an ordinance so the board will uh consider the ordinance and and pass some form of this if they so choose or not um if if they do pass it um then it will become part of our Land Development code um like uh Miss Francy noted uh we're having uh the new city managers having these uh um kind of town hall meetings we have connect tarp and Springs where we have a lot of people that get the city news we would advertise there um we're working with some of the neighborhoods like Union Academy right now we're working on a CRA for them they would be notified window those passes so they know the opportunity so we'll kind of get the word out that way and and I feel that this is just a step for folks to take or business owners to take whoever uh in what would be a multistep very transparent process yes so it's just that it's just leaving the door open a crack or unlocked basically for someone to come in and make a public comment for someone to come in and leave a letter or something of that nature you know it just just gives that hint of opportunity instead of saying a flat well we don't have we don't have that process and we'd have to commence it now at least this kind of puts the knife and fork on the table for the food always in anybody can appeal an HPB decision to the Board of Commissioners and their their criteria is basically nothing right just um yeah the um the appeal section in as we've got it here the only thing we changed right now was the male radius so you're right there's really no um set criteria in that section um yeah the hbb has their own criteria for the historic district but yeah so we still have the same motion you still have a motion on the floor y you've talked about it so the motion once again is to approve uh the ordinance with uh comments to staff that uh you have concerns about the 50 1% um provision and I noted um how that is applied uh what the definition and Clarity of it would be with respect to land owners Property Owners uh bu business owners that sort of thing so we've got all that Pat may I mean I don't know maybe if it is in there but maybe just just in this in the memor that it's like a framework for anything right I mean cuz I don't think the first thing I looked for was the three districts and you know like a small paragraph then it's Greek toown Union Academy CRA so it looks like it's like we're providing like these are going to be in this right like so you know that's how I read it right like this is going to apply to these areas you know but like this is a framework for these areas or other potential I mean maybe add like an or other potential overlays that are suggested or something like that maybe cuz I think the framework part I think we're just getting now yeah these these are the ones we heard about in engagement but I can add that to the memo yeah so formal um historic preservation districts are a lot of work right they're a lot of work you have to do reports I mean there's a a lot into them and they're almost very difficult to establish so this is kind of a a lighter touch of because you obviously have historic resources outside of the official historic district that's very clear and so the the idea is to give a legal uh framework for preserving the character or whatever for what the various reasons that are in here that um might be necessary so this is kind of a lighter a lighter process even if it's not is like enforceable like if somebody who's coming into the district sees it maybe they're just like I don't want to mess with that I mean would that might be like a deterrent well like so for example but for if it were designated uh NCO then it would have it wouldn't have to go to a public hearing you know for certificate of appropriateness so somebody might be like yeah I don't want to I want it just as of right you know I want to deal with the underlying zoning and nothing else and so this adds another layer where you do have to go to a public hearing in order to get your certificate of appropriateness correct yeah to um even if it's easier it's still it's a kind of layer of protection even if it's the light lighter one so yeah but so you know the reason why historic districts do work and they work in a lot of places is that when you have a when it actually functions it creates a Synergy where because like take South Beach for example largest collection of Arco build buildings and AR and and it was almost run down and torn up and it came back and same for you all every historic district it just takes a turnaround and then all of a sudden it's known as a a really important place you know because of its historic value what I mean like I think part of that's already there so I think there they're also what I experienced been some time now but where I used to live it was a little historic area and I actually had my office in that little historic area and um it was fabulous because there were Grant monies available to all those businesses if they want I can't remember the amount but to improve you know the property owners to improve and stick with the historical requirements or themes but to update their office fronts and their building FRS and it was it was pretty neat I mean a lot of people took advantage of it well there there's facade grants available for everyone in the CRA right now yes and actually we get benefits from just being in the National Historic District in Greektown as well which I don't think have been really related to everybody they've been given for things that maybe but yeah even that has given us words but no everyone in the C has facade Grant can get a facade Grant and some people have gotten more than one yeah so yeah those are already available good yeah yeah so do we want to take a vote at some point you need to do something with the motion it might die if you don't hurry yeah you ready to vote yeah all right Weaver Miss swon yes Miss early yes Mr rockline yes Miss Frances yes thank you all right um we don't have anything else in the agenda any um staff comments no merry Christmas happy New Year attorney no the moment of reflection was beautiful thank you for that very nice uh happy holidays to all of you I hope you you and your family the best thank you youim kimim Kim oh hi any board comments no thank you Merry Christmas yeah Merry Christmas and New Year Maye I was just saying Merry Christmas and happy New Year put your light on remember we were talking about the FEMA and the um if anyone I can if if you desde I'm not sure how much you have on the next agenda yeah I don't know um I can give you a brief kind of update on what's going on with the with the um you know flood stuff substantial damage and and that just just kind of a quick update next month if if you want to do that all right Merry Christmas Merry Christmas happy holidays bye e for