Good and welcome to the first Charter Revision Commission meeting. I know all of you know me. Um however, for our viewing audience, I am Irene Jacobs, the city clerk and collector And with me today is Michelle Manis. Who's our deputy city clerk, and Andrew Salzman, who is our city attorney. Before I call this meeting to order If I can have all members stand and raise your right hand and repeat after me so I could administer the oath of office. I I say your name, and Jennings will swear, firm swear and affirm that I will uphold that I will uphold the Constitution of the United States Constitution of the United States and of the state of Florida and of the state of Florida. The laws of the state of Florida, the state of Florida and the charter and laws and the charter and laws at the city of Tarpon Springs of the city of Tarpon Springs, that I am duly qualified. I am duly qualified. To serve as a member of the Charter Revision Commission to serve as a member of the charter Revision Commission that will I will faithfully and honestly, I will faithfully and honestly perform my duties as a board member, perform my duties as a board member without bias or prejudice without bias or prejudice, and that I will treat all persons and that I will treat all persons or parties appearing before the board or parties appearing before the board with courtesy and civility. With courtesy and civility. You can take a seat. Now that everyone has taken the oath. If everyone could please sign the oath placed in front of you and return back to the clerk's office before leaving today. I now call to order the meeting of the Charter Revision Commission of the city of Tarpon Springs on Monday, April 22nd at 201 roll call. Dr BU of Alice. Here Miss Jennings. Mr Cole, Mr. Dr Mrs Here, and Mr Chair here. We'll go to our first agenda item, and that's the review of the Sunshine Law. And public records and ethics by attorney Salzman. Is there anybody here? Who hasn't had this? Type of presentation before. Good So mostly right, it'll well, not that particular one. It'll mostly be an update. I hope for everyone, um And of course you have any questions? Let me know. So you all And I know I've heard from some of you that you've served on the charter review. Board before. I don't know if everybody has, uh, but you are subject to the sunshine law, Public records and the ethics requirement of Florida statutes. So Would basically are we talking about? The Sunshine Law, As you probably know. Is Florida statute. 286 and public records is Florida statue 119. Those well, relatively simple Uh, statutes are pretty pretty extensively litigated, and there are a lot of attorney general opinions on these subjects and they change all the time, so we're constantly looking at the interpretations as things have probably changed, and as I heard within the last five years alone , things have changed from social media and those kind of responsibilities you may have or may not be aware of. Um So what is the requirement? Of course it open. Being like you have here today. Um and, uh, making sure that all records you receive, uh , in your capacity in this position are given over to the city clerk's office so that if anybody comes in and asks for a public record, we have it. Those are the basic requirements that we're looking at under the open meeting law. There's a lot of this that you don't deal with one is giving notice. Uh, one is the requirement that we have a place that's accessible for residents. Anybody from the community that wants to come in. And that there available to speak before you adopt certain aspects of what you decide with the charter. Uh and they give you and you give them an opportunity to hear what you have to say. Of course, everything needs to be done out in the public, Which means you all as members of this board cannot have discussions with each other regarding what you're doing here or potentially could be doing here, uh, outside the public meeting. OK? You've already taken your oath of office. We don't have to worry about that. A lot of things. As I said the city clerk, um, office will take care of the notice provisions. You don't have to worry about that. They'll take care of where the area is. And of course, as you know, this is being recorded and videotaped, Um, live stream also , right? Yes Um, so that that helps out in a lot of these areas where people have any concerns normally what people are looking at to make sure that they have the opportunity. See what you're basing your opinions on what you're reading. And of course, as you may be aware, any notes that you take on behalf of this particular subject? Are open for public record, so you need to turn those in or you must turn in copies or we'll make copies for you. But those are public records. So just be aware of if you're taking notes that are just for informational purposes. That's probably OK, but I'm very conservative. In my opinion, so I'd rather we keep copies of everything that you write down. That includes if you're using a computer. Or an iPad and you're taking notes that way, So we want to make sure that we have copies of everything. And as you may or may not be aware, but generally the public records law does not have a time period for requesting a The ability to review a document. So for example, if I come in tomorrow, and I ask, and I want to see all the notes that were taken from this meeting. They should be available at the clerk's office and the clerk's office should be able to give those to me immediately. Now there is potential for, uh, a reasonable period of time, but really, they should be available if they've been done. So make sure at the end of the meeting if you have anything that you turn it over for us, As I said, we could make copies. For you. Again since you've you're basically understand what we're doing. I'm not gonna go through all the basics of what is considered an open meeting. Uh res will notice and minutes being taken, uh, the one interesting thing about minutes and that it's gone kind of contrary to what the initial discussion about minutes minutes used to be just who was there? What was briefly discussed and how individuals voted nowadays with the technology we have We obviously do. D verbatim, but it used to not be a requirement. Um so, uh, minutes Handwrit minutes can be very short. And sometimes people get upset that they're at meetings and they say, Well, I want to know I want to recognize that so and so was there and this person said this and there was discussion and I want that information in there. Well the law doesn't require that but in our case, you don't have to worry about that, because everything is being done verbatim. So if somebody wants something they could get a video of it. Or they could get a copy of the, uh minutes. By, uh, recording. So this is probably the most important thing and I touched on it briefly. What is a meeting? The gathering of two or more members of the same board to discuss a matter that will foreseeably come before the board for action. With you all that has to do with every part of the charter and remember, even if you've just discussed it the way this particular board works, and I know most of you are aware of this, but you were subsequently going to have an ordinance that you draft that's going to go to the city Commission. That's going to come back to you in some form, So the fact that you conclude having a discussion on a particular area of the charter, it's not over. And it's reasonably couldn't come back before you so there's nothing here that you're going to be doing that's dealing with the charter that will be concluded. While you're still a member of this board, so please keep that in mind. So any discussions you all have outside a public meeting are prohibited. If you happen to have a discussion, or if somebody approaches you and tells you what another board member has said, We need to disclose that at your next meeting, uh, in order to make sure the idea is to Sure that everybody has the same information when you're discussing or voting on something. And so if I'm a board member, and I'm having a discussion with somebody in the community, and it's going to affect how I'm going to look at a particular issue, it's important that you all have that same information so that you could make a judgment with the same information, so that's the important part about it. Doesn't mean that people can't come up and talk to you about this. Uh, they just need to not act as a conduit and they do not need to tell you what somebody else is thinking or doing. It's a hard thing that happens in, uh, communities. Um but you just have to be aware of that. We would hate to have something you know, be alleged, Uh, Normally we see these situations and you've probably seen them in the past. They occur on anything that is a controversial section. So, for example, if you were going to recommend Changing the form of government to a strong mayor form of government, and that's controversial. That would usually be the area that people would look at and say. Well, who did you talk to? Why did four of you decide to do that? Did you talk to somebody Do we need to look into that? Uh And of course , there are criminal penalties that go with this. There are simple fines. Um There is a commission on ethics, uh, which does Proceed with these cases. I have several, uh, clients right now that I'm before the commission on Ethics on and Trust me. They take this very seriously. And you don't want to be involved in that You have to hire an attorney, um, to defend you and it's not pleasant. So let's try to avoid those things. I know most people can avoid them. But the problem usually arises when somebody else is talking to you. OK, so when you say conversations, but that's not necessarily the general public. So the general public had a conversation with you. To express a concern. That's not Nothing wrong with that. OK, but You and I are on the same board. Somebody from the general public says, you know, Andy said. Blah, blah, blah. What do you think of that? Or what's your opinion? That's when you run into trouble , right? We can't have people acting as a conduit and it's something naturally that people do. They don't need me to do it on purpose. Um they might, especially with something. What you guys are dealing with is pretty sensitive area. You're dealing with the charter, which is very important as you know, from sitting on this before, and there's a lot of people that have particular desires that they want you to look at, and they're going to try to convince you if they can. Um but, yes, I would avoid anything like it. But there's nothing wrong with Coming up to you and saying I think we shouldn't raise the, uh, limit of, uh what we have to vote on for sale or purchase of property. You know something along those lines. This is the reason why or I think you should put in there that we should be buying empty lots whenever available something along those lines, so you just need to be careful from that standpoint. Yes sir. Question about a sort of similar situation That's a little more complicated for a couple of us, at least. Uh, Mike and I are on P and Z also, you know, and, uh There have been over the years in P and Z times when we've asked, Can we do something and You or other legal representative would say That's In the charter. We've got to deal with that when the charter is dealt with, so now Is it appropriate to ask our fellow members of P and Z to help remind us of what some of those situations were? Well, there's nothing wrong with taking that information to bring back here. Remember, information gathering is not a problem. Um In fact, any of you could act as somebody gathering information. In fact, the law says that if you decided to gather that information for planning and zoning and send it to everybody on the board, there's nothing wrong with that. The problem becomes when somebody on the board responds to you because of that. That's when we run into a problem, but getting information and to bring it here. Remember you all were selected on this board for a purpose, and the purpose was to bring your knowledge and expertise to this board and What other information is relevant, so that's important. Now the What I was talking about when I said what has changed in five years? Well it's what we're going to talk about. Next. It's social media. Right so social media has become a good and bad thing. Um from a government perspective, it can be a bad thing. Uh, because people are presenting their positions on social media and maybe on your page, and there might be discussions from more than one member or there might be the conduit aspect of it. Where somebody posts what somebody else, uh, on the same board as you on the Social media page, and that's when we want to avoid. The other thing about social media is there's Access. Um from everybody in the community, So you need to make sure that, uh In a perfect world. You have no social media. For me. For me to defend you. You'd have no social media. I don't have any For those that have social media. You just have to be careful if you're getting anything on social media dealing with Charter review again, I would forward it to the clerk's office. Um Therefore we have that information If you have any questions regarding, uh what's going on? Just don't respond. You cannot respond. I mean that. That's the big problem with social media. In fact, there was a recent case that went so far in the social media, not necessarily dealing with you all . But it's a Supreme Court case, talking about that Social media can now be considered a public forum for purposes of not allowing you to ban people on social media. If you Put in charge of a particular um, part in the city. And you were, uh, taking information and responding. You could create a public forum on social media, which is a very dangerous place to be because of things that can come out and things that are that occur and remember the other part and we don't see it as much Now. I've been involved in a little of this, but if you're using, um your own computer or your phone, um or your iPad and your It for purposes of being on the charter Review board. You could ultimately have that particular device subject to review by the court. In case somebody makes a public records claim. Or Sunshine Law claim and the court needs to review that. So that'll be taken away from you. So try to avoid doing that Also. Yes obviously, as as an attorney I get and I could see somebody maybe wanting to do this, but, uh, I try to get access to my text C information. Which, uh, there's a lot of attorney client. Yes. So we want you to avoid that. The other part about that, honestly, is what the courts have done lately because you cannot Put it on a disk and have the court look at it because the, uh, chief judge has said that we don't want something foreign going into our computer system. You usually have to print out everything or pay for those documents to be provided, so it becomes an expensive situation that the judge doesn't really want to deal with. So uh, the easy way is to avoid that. Just don't use your private, uh, your computer, especially, I mean that that would be a nightmare problem. You know we would hit and the hoops. I'm just thinking that we would have to jump through. Um, maybe even Retaining a separate council to review everything. I mean, we sometimes have to do that for public records and we've had to do it recently, and we've gone through tens of thousands of documents to make sure what is allowed to be disclosed. And what is it? So I want you all to avoid that situation, But if you do have something that comes across or you get something on social media that you feel is part of this just either make a copy or a screenshot and let's get it over the clerk's office and that takes care of your responsibility. Because really when I come in, and I ask for a public record The clerk's office provides a public record. They don't have to take it from you if you provided it. To that avoids that situation. I'm I mean, you may not. This may not come across, but you know there. We just wanna be careful. This doesn't really apply to you. But this is the exceptions for, uh, public meetings, which is, uh, usually under litigation. We have what's known as a shade meeting. Um, and also collective bargaining is the only thing that's completely exempt from the Sunshine Law. If any of you are will avoid this. I know. But if any of you are delegated for to make a decision on behalf of the charter review board your own individual meeting or gathering of information, if you're acting on behalf of the board could be subject to, uh um, regular meeting notice. So we've seen that the example of that is usually when somebody is reviewing resumes on behalf of a board, um, that that meeting would be considered a public meeting. Even if it's just watching the person, you know, look at the resumes and not taking any action that shouldn't affect you. Notice again is not something I'm worried about you knowing because notice will be taken care of the clerk's office going back to the other meetings . I have a question about the second item board members attending meetings of a different public board should take care not to discuss or debate items that come before them. OK well on a broad level isn't almost everything covered by other boards, part of the charter. Yes so, But the question and that situation is having two board members having a discussion at a Let's say two of you that are not on planning and zoning. Two of you come to the planning and zoning meeting and you take make public comment. And you discuss I want to put this in the charter. I think this is important that we put this in the charter and another board member stands up and says, I agree with you. Now you're having a discussion about a meeting that is not an advertised meeting for charter review. OK so it's not a matter of just discussing any item that OK, Thank you. No but I It's the classic example of not having you have the discussion. Um or attending these other meetings to potentially with another board member to have that discussion. Is it OK that it's a It's a public meeting. Better. Uh Then you go to a fundraiser and having that discussion but still not perfect. So we want to avoid those situations. Really I mean, the easy way of saying it is two of you shouldn't be talking about anything that you're doing in this. Forum outside of One of our notice meetings. If you follow that two of you remember so you can talk to Irene. You could talk to Michelle. You could talk to me. You could talk to mark. You can talk to anybody in the community. Just not any of you. And There's also what we call the appearance of impropriety. And that's what I would ask you to avoid, and it's hard to do when you all know each other and you all go to community functions together, and it's hard to do But you again. Here's how it comes about when there's a controversial issue. Oh, I saw two of them over in the corner. Um, seem to be having an intense conversation. And guess what they voted, you know. At the charter, One of them brought up a controversial issue and the other one seconded it. Where did that come from? They must have violated the Sunshine Law. They must have done something contrary. So that's where you have to worry about those situations doesn't mean you can't meet with each other. It doesn't mean you can't socialize with each other. Just avoid these conversations. So just to clarify if I go to P and C, and there's two people on P and C and make a comment about an item not directed to anybody, particularly but just to the topic at hand. There's no problem with that. Just no one else can comment about your comment. Mm. And that's a hard thing. Let's be honest, It's hard not to respond in some way. Um but that it happens and we can correct it. Uh, we bring the issue back before you for another discussion. We have it as if it starts an new Now, when I say we can correct it that corrects this board. Doesn't correct you individually for anything that you may have violated, but to make sure the work that you're doing will not be stopped and that we can move forward with Again. This is notice. I'm not going to have you dis discuss too much of this. Um, this is a One thing this comes up here in the city and I I'll explain it for people at least understand? You know, at the beginning of the year, the meetings are noticed here for the city. The general meetings are noticed. And then there could be a special meeting that occurs and people wonder. Why does it take so long? Well the attorney general's office has told us that you need to have a reasonable time period before you have a special meeting to be called, and that's usually seven days now you can have an emergency meeting. An emergency meeting is usually at least 24 to 72 hours, depending on what the emergency is. Obviously we have a hurricane coming. That's an emergency. We can call emergency meeting for that. But the idea behind an emergency meeting is it's a single subject that occurs, Uh and that whatever is decided, is ratified at a subsequent public meeting. So that's why we don't normally have quick. Special meetings because we need a reasonable time period because people need to be noticed and received notice that they may want to appear at that particular meeting. Uh, in your case, we will have all your meetings advertised, so it's not an issue. Again. These are particular requirements. Um or Special meetings, special districts. Um, gonna go through that relatively quick. We talked briefly. I talked about minutes. Um for me to verbatim transcript is not required. We will have that if it's necessary In this particular situation. The city goes beyond the requirements of the law. Clearly beyond the requirement of the law, and that that protects everybody. The one thing that people may not understand, and is that draft minutes are public record, so that's how sensitive public records are. Any kind of draft is a public record. You can't wait for finalization. So as soon as there's any notes that are taken, they are a public record for purposes of anybody coming in. This is the classic. I hate the Sunshine law, So I'm going to create an ordinance that exempts any board from that. Can't do that. You know, the funny thing about the sunshine Law is it applies to all local government agencies and special districts. Uh, independent independent districts. It doesn't apply to the Legislature. Um so they've exempted themselves from the requirements that you have. That's the beauty. Of being in the legislative Legislature, so What are the consequences? We talked about them recently. In addition to the ones I talked about, there are civil actions in the city is involved in a civil action right now. On a Violation of public records. I have defended municipalities in violations of the Sunshine Law. I have seen the criminal courts prosecute people for violating the Sunshine Law. Um state Attorney's office will do that. They don't do it often. Um but they did it famously years ago in town of Kenne City, when, uh individual commissioners sat in a room and discussed what color they were going to paint a building outside a public meeting. Uh, and they were prosecuted for that. And there are fines. There are attorneys fees, and it's just not fun. So If you can avoid that that would be the best thing to do. OK? Public records. Public records. Law is very simple. Anything at all that you receive in any format whatsoever involving what you're doing on this board as a public record. Simple as that. Any format. That's why social media is so important to recognize. Um it it's used to communicate or formalize knowledge. It is considered a public record. That doesn't mean everything's a public record. But when in doubt, I'd rather you turn it over to the clerk's office. I mean, obviously certain things if I'm telling you about, uh, a Fundraiser We're having in the community That's not a public record. Um, but anything concerning the charter for you all would be considered a public record. Uh, so easy part. Turn it over. We don't have to deal with that. The biggest problem with public records is really this. Somebody sends you something. And you Dispose of it. And they come in and ask for it. Does that happen? Absolutely. Happens all the time. People send you things and they ask for make sure that it's gone to the clerk's office. And if it hasn't Then there's a problem. And that's that's what you just need to avoid. It's simple enough. It's just a little harder now with social media. Um this applies to any record that you received not just from individuals, but it could be from corporations it could be from even government agencies to make sure that that you provide those if it's something generally that you see that has gone to the clerk's office. Also, you don't have to turn it in. Um if it's if it's already coming to the city, then don't worry about that. There could be some general mailings that you receive or people that contact you, even by email. They might also, um Be contacting the clerk's office. But I would Be careful in the emails. I would just forward them to, uh, Irene and Michelle, and then you don't have to worry about that. Yes So that includes you What you might provide to somebody. If you have a message to somebody or something concerning something you should if I'm If I'm doing it, there are some exceptions. Because of litigation and things along those lines, but anything that I receive. I Forward it to Irene and Michelle. Normally what I receive they receive at the same time We receive a lot of the same things. They forward things to me to review all the time, too, but I make sure that they have them. Some things in my capacity are not a public record. Um But but some things are I keep every email that I get just in case because of having done this for so long. Um It's just an easier way of doing it. There are There are a lot of exemptions from the public records. And this is when people wonder why it takes so long to maybe get a public record from the clerk's office. If it does, this is because they have to look through all the exemptions. Some of these exemptions are pretty significant. Perfect example is we can't provide anybody. Social Security number. So we have to look through and redact every document that doesn't have social security number. There are other things that are there's a long list of exceptions, some deal with, uh, obviously medical records some deal with, um, examination records. Some deal with, uh firefighters, police officers, home addresses, telephone numbers, family photographs. Those things are all exempt, but for the most part, if it's being received, it's a public record. Talked about this. It's uh, use of personal devices or accounts are not a shield. Um and that's an important area, although we don't see it as often as we were. There are Many cases out there. Where what I was saying in which, uh, you have to turn over your device to the court, and that takes a long time for the court to get around to looking at that. So uh, you'll lose that device for a fairly long period of time. It's just not worth doing. OK? Anything that communicates information from one public employee to another or prepared for filing, even if it's never intended for a later formal public product is still a public record. What does that mean? Those are the notes I was telling you about notes that you take here. Uh, even if it's not for a formal Position you're going to take on, um, one of the areas of the charter. It still is a public record, um, notes to yourself, which are not designed for that same purpose. Do not meet the public records. Uh, requirements what I would do what I would recommend. If you're taking some notes, and you're not sure. Uh Just talk to Irene Michelle or me. Uh, and we'll help you out with that. Um we certainly want you to avoid because what happens with public with personal records as you tend to maybe Forget where you put them, Um or, uh, throw them away, and then we run into a problem. Uh, this is, uh, the test that the courts have looked at. For drafts and notes. If the drafts and notes have been prepared to perpetuate, communicate or formalize knowledge of some type, they are public records. It's the intent behind the records that in important, not the form, so you know the old I wrote a note on a napkin. Um, still could be a public record. It's what you were intending to do with those notes. As uh, I talked about already. Um you have to give the record as soon as you prepared it. Anybody can request for those records and there's no automatic delay, although, ironically, when you do a public records request to the state attorney's office, you get a response of, um we'll respond within. Uh 2 to 3 weeks, which is actually illegal. Um, because you can't put a set time. As when you could receive the record, so it's supposed to be a reasonable amount of time to obtain the records. Now there are some costs that can occur based on what your records request is and how much time it takes to look at that. The normal rule of thumb is if it if it takes 15 minutes or less. There's no charge for the actual review or obtaining those records once it takes more than that time, the law allows the city or government agency to charge for the use of an individual to find those records , And that's at an hourly rate. One of the things the law has done, uh recently and has really pushed this forward is that If you make a public record for question, let's just say the charge is gonna be $11 and you tell the clerk's office. Yes I'd like those records and they prepared those records and you never come in and get them. City does not have to respond to your next public records request. Ever until you pay for the first one, and why that's important is that used to be an abusive area that people would do? They'd make public records requests and they would just let the you know, pile up and the city would be spending a lot of time and money on that. So that changed. Um we do receive a lot of and this could happen with you all and I would not be surprised. Because of the extent of social media and the ability to see these meetings on YouTube and those things we get a lot of people that are from either out of state or other cities that make public records requests, and they asked for it in the format of electronics, so it doesn't take that long to do it. Uh and we receive a lot of those just for the purpose of people want to see the records. Or they just wanna be. They have nothing better to do. Um and so or they want to see if we don't provide them. And they can sue us because they get attorney's fees and costs. And it's a little cottage industry that has occurred throughout the state of Florida. Um The courts are now looking at trying to curb that, but they're still out there and guess what? They don't have to put their name. And they make the public records request. They can do it anonymously and we cannot require them to give us their name or address or any contact information unless we can't Get them the record. We also can't inform you in advance that somebody's made a public records request. Uh that's not required, and that's not allowed under the law. So We do receive those. A lot of them electronically. Um and for purposes that don't seem to really be relevant to what you're doing, but we get them and we have to respond to them. Uh, they haven't fixed that in the law. I'm waiting for them to fix that. Um you know, there's people send emails also which Appear to be public records requests when they're really asking questions, and the law does not. Require a city to respond to your questions. They were require you to provide public records, and sometimes we could get people that abuse that situation and I can tell you I have one client that receives, uh, probably on a monthly basis. 500 to 1000 emails from one individual. Uh, making comments, which appear to be some sometimes requests. Uh and it's appears abusive, but there's nothing they can do about it because the law is very open. About what you're dealing with The Sunshine law. The courts have ruled, um, in favor of the individuals that are bringing violations. I'd say the majority of the time. So it's the courts. Look at it as you should not try to avoid having public meetings and you should not try to avoid providing public records. This is an exception, which is litigation. Uh, litigation records are exempt during the pendency of the litigation. Through this Um The records custodian. Here is the clerk's office. So there used to be something else that people would come in. They'd come into other departments and make public records requests because the courts used to say that any time the city receives a public records request, you have to respond to anybody who receives it. That's changed. You can declare an individual in in our case. It's the clerk's office that you must bring your public records request to We also keep the records for a period of, uh time. We're allowed to statutorily destroy some records . I don't believe the city follows. I think they keep their records. Those who keep your records pretty much forever. Yes. OK? I'm not gonna go through this. This is dealing with a private company when we contract with them, Uh all are just so you know all our contracts with the a private company require them to maintain , uh, public records for us, and that if we ask for them, they provide them for us. Uh, that's the famous White soft case when the White Sox were being negotiated coming to ST Pete, Uh , it was kept hidden from then The ST Pete Times who sued and were able to get those records because you can't hide them. There are exceptions on on something. So you know, there is also an exception as to security here in the city. For example, if you came in and asked, I want to know the location of all the cameras in the city, we would not provide that documentation to you, Uh, that's exempt under the law. Security and safety issues are exempt. Obviously for the purpose of that nobody knows what they are so they can come in and cause some kind of harm. Any questions on public records. OK, ethics. Simple answer Here is Don't take anything. From anybody. And promise them that you're going to vote a certain way. Um The Florida ethics statute, which is Florida statute, 112 is pretty significant. Uh, when it talks about Issues of Receiving gifts. Lobbyists and those requirements . The one that you would probably deal with is voting conflicts. So there's a little difference. Just so you know, between being an elected official and being appointed on the board. Uh, number one. If elected official has a voting conflict, they declared their voting conflict and they could still discuss the item. And the reason behind that is that you were elected to represent me. As a resident and your Opinion matters, right? You just may not be able to vote on it. Your opinion still matters because otherwise I don't get the representation. That I voted for you for You on this board. If you have a voting conflict, you cannot discuss that either. Now. What's the chances of you having a voting conflict? Well. Depends on something with your background, right? Do you? Is there something that's gonna endure a private game for you or a family member? That's really what we look at a business that you're in is something that you're going to do put in the chart are gonna benefit you. As different than everybody else. That's what we look at. And those conflicts. Are significant . You have to fill out a form. We have to send it to Tallahassee, uh, within 15 days of the voting conflict. But I'm also gonna tell you this in Florida. The law is when in doubt, you vote. Have to have a legitimate voting conflict. Here's the reason why you're appointed to this board. To do this job. And the idea is that you're supposed to be able to vote if we have continual conflicts and you shouldn't be on this board. Right? You're you're in charge of doing something that's extremely important for the city, and the idea is that you need to be able to do that. The conflicts can occur. We don't see a lot of conflicts. Um because there is it's really mostly financial. Sometimes people think well, I know so and so and it's going to affect them or my, uh, this could affect my neighbor. That's not a voting conflict that just puts you in a tough position. Um but it's not a conflict. It has to be a legitimate conflict. You're gonna get some kind of gain, or you gonna help somebody differently than everybody else. Those are the legitimate voting conflicts. Question. Yes. Some of us have Significant real estate holdings and how I mean how does that not a conflict cause I have several properties. How is it? Not a con? Well, it would have to be something that would significantly treat your Financial situation differently than mine. So let's just say I'm a resident of Tarpon Springs and you own some property in the same district that I'm in. Right, and we're doing a zoning change. To that district. Does that affect the whole district, or does it affect you personally? Right. If it affects you personally, that's a special private gain. Then you have a voting conflict. Otherwise I mean, basically remember zone instead of a spot. Zoning is illegal, so we won't And I'm using that as the example. Yeah, I mean, we could come across a problem with that in spot zoning. If you own an area, let's just say, um We're rezoning an area from, uh Commercial. To residential And you owned a significant part of vacant lots there then I would probably tell you you can't vote. On that particular situation. But if we were talking about, um, we're changing. Residential from 15 to 20 units per acre for the whole city. I don't think that would necessarily affect you. Right. It's almost going back at I if you look at it this way. From the commissioner and I have My brother in law works for the city. And we're voting on a cost of living increase. For the city. Got 1000 employees. If I vote for that, Do I have a conflict? Because I'm ignoring a Came to my brother in law. No because it's so massive. It affects everybody the same. If my brother in law is in the Finance Department, and there's five people in the Finance Department and I'm voting to give just that department an increase different than everybody else's. Yeah I probably have a conflict, so it's it almost comes down to what is the connection, right? How close is that connection goes along the same thing with, you know, um, not being able to promote somebody. That you're related to that's that's true. Um but you could still supervise somebody to that supervises your Particular family member, right? You could still if it's if it's there's a distinction between how close you are to the particular situation. So this is what it really talks about. Personal and affiliated. Uh, direct, special private gain or loss for that person who is actually on record as voting. Um Any measure, which a public officer knows what inure to the special private gain or loss. Of a family member of your business, Uh, business associate. Um something along those lines. If it's not there, then you don't have to worry about it. The easy thing here is , if you feel you have a voting conflict, just talk to me beforehand. Um, I just dealt with A case before the commission on Ethics on a voting conflict, and it was kind of an interesting one because it was a development in which the Um Had a Community development Association. And The developer still controlled a lot of the property. For the developer had Four members of a five member board that were basically Worked for the developer. And then there was the fifth member and every time they would vote on some kind of tax increase. Um that was helpful to the developer. The fifth member would file a ethics violation against them. And the commission on Ethics. Ruled in our favor, which said that's not a violation. Because you're not ignoring a special private gain to the developer. You're doing it for everybody and some of it. You have to do right. Water rates have to be paid things like that have to occur. Um so it's not always a situation. It turns on the facts. The circumstances that we're dealing with. And this just talks a little bit more about special private gain, breaking it down a little more. Like I said, the size of the class really affects it. Some of it is a remoteness. This is the same requirements under the Florida Constitution. That you are responsible for not abusing your position that you've taken your oath and that you take it seriously that you will not be involved in any of those issues. This is what I said. If you think you have a conflict you you could check with me. You can ask the Florida Commission on ethics. There's actually they're very helpful. Um all the, uh, they have a hotline, and they have their attorneys that answer these questions. And they're they're very good about it. Um I'd rather you do that before. So can you participate? This is what I talked about the discussion you might be able to participate. You may not. It depends on the conflict that in most cases, I would tell you if you have a conflict, you cannot participate in the discussion. OK? This is easy enough gifts. Don't take anything. You know, it's the old saying of, you know , a bribe versus a gift. I mean, we're where you normally see these in. You probably won't see them, but We have a concert coming in town. Would you like, Uh, you know a free ticket for that, By the way, Uh, when you vote on the charter, um don't forget Uh, so you want to avoid those kind of situations? It's you have to disclose. If you get a gift, you have to fill out a form. It's really not worth it. I don't anticipate you guys. Will we get any of these? But if you do if somebody comes up to you, obviously it's a problem and it's actually crime. Um So just be careful to make sure that nobody's doing that the classic one that we see for commissioners is Hey, I got a new roof for $1500, you know? That's a classic example of a what is considered a gift that that is improper when the roof costs 10,000, right. Oh, I got a great deal. You know you can't do it. It's obvious when something is like that. You You know the old line if it looks like a duck sounds like a duck. Well, then, if it looks like it's improper than it probably is, and you just should avoid those Free lodging. Something along those lines, food or beverage. There is a $100 threshold that we look at generally, if it's if it's more than $100. We look at it as a violation that you cannot accept . If it's less than $100. We still may look at it as a violation, but it's not an obvious violation. Doesn't mean that you can't receive like an honorarium or be invited to speak or participate in some discussion, and there's a free lunch that you have to, you know, turn that down that that that's not what it means. It's obviously if somebody's offering you something for the purposes of gaining something else, then you have a problem and that's a gift and it's a violation for both individuals. It's a violation for the person who gives you the gift, and it's a violation for the person who receives the gift. These are cases that they will prosecute. Become popular at the state attorney's office to prosecute. This is what I was talking about things that are not a gift. Honorariums plaques awards gifts from relatives, Uh, contributions or expenditures by a political party. Those are not Gifts. This talks about a lobbyist. I doubt you're going to have any lobbyists come To you. The problem with this is that, uh I like the first Full of point. Part of law assumes you're smart and that there's no excuse to skirt the law. I mean, if it's obvious it's obvious. You know that. You know, you shouldn't be taking that. You know, they're asking for something. Um and it's just not worth doing. This is acceptance of gifts. Um if it's from a lobbyist or lobbyist, principal valued under $100 that I talked about gets from a political committee valued under $100 anything over $100 on behalf of your board so long as you immediately transfer to the in that case, the district or to the city. I don't want you involved in that and gifts from your mom if she's not a lobbyist. Yes. But let's say someone, um Who's up for something with the city? Uh, comes to comes to someone, whether on a board or what, or or an elected official and says, Hey, let's go to the game. I'll You know it's on me. Does this not have the appearance of impropriety? Even if it's under $100, it could have the appearance of impropriety, which you would have to deal with separately than having to deal with the legal aspects of it. You're right, and that's and again I. I really like. You bring the subject because almost all the time that we deal with these is the appearance of impropriety. Even the one I was telling you about with the, uh, four people that are on the, uh, work for the developer. It's that appear well, there must be an impropriety right? Because how could four people work for the developer and raise our taxes? It helps to developer He's still part of this, uh, community development district so It's that appearance and in that case District had to hire an attorney me and had to we had to fight it. We had to prepare responses and you spend a bunch of money on something for an appearance of impropriety. The same thing that you know you could have here where we do an investigation based on the fact that there's been some allegations made. There may not be anything wrong, but you try to avoid that appearance. Uh and you have to do a disclosure. There's a state form form nine that you have to disclose. If you don't do that, Uh, the ironic thing, Um Once a month, the Commission on Ethics meets in Tallahassee and one of the things you see a lot of right now are fines for people that violate Not filing the right form. For their conflict for their financial They'll they'll prosecute you in that forum, and they'll find you for that. That's a frequent thing that you'll see if you look at their agenda. This is just evaluating gifts. Um, doing business with your own agency. Not worried about that. I mean, this is really what we're talking about. Misuse of your public position. Are you, uh, doing something? Because you're on the charter review board. And are you misusing that position by gaining some kind of financial or some type of advantage that you are not entitled to. This is , uh, making sure that everybody Well, you just kind of took an oath, So just make sure that um, anything that you're doing is that you're following through. Truthfully and not making any false statements. This has nepotism won't affect you. Elections have not worried about so I think that concludes Any other questions. So I expect no violations of the sunshine law public records. Thank you, attorney salesman. The next agenda item is to distribute the city charter and discuss the timeline in front of y'all. Y'all have, uh, a booklet that contains the charter sections as well as the, um A calendar and the tentative timeline. Um if you look, we I also provided at your at the dias there, uh, section 32 of the charter, which For the election. I had to work backwards. So that's where these timelines come from. Um Just to review some of the things um Between Our first meeting today and September 3rd. When is the first day that you would make the presentation to the commission? We have approximately 18 weeks to work on changes for the charter. Prior to the presentation to the board. Um during this time, the commission shall receive comments from the Board of Commissioners. Charter officials . Former charter board members staff as requested and the public. The clerk's office puts out a press release for the public to attend the meetings with information where one could send their input if they cannot attend. Also for the first time as I spoke to some earlier, uh we now are able to televise these meetings in this room and residents will be able to watch, uh live or view at their own convenience. The board of Commissioners, Charter officials and staff are scheduled through the clerk's office as advised by the commission, and that I usually would work either with this commission or the chair. And an affirmative vote of four members of this commission is required to propose any changes to the charter on September 3rd. A presentation is made to the board in ordinance form. Uh, for their review. After that time, they'll have 30 days within 30 days, which is October 3rd for the board to return any proposed recommendations. This commission will then review those recommendations for consideration. After that time on November 13th of 2024 a final report in ordinance form, which would be the first reading of that ordinance, with proposed charter language goes before the board of Commissioners and is adopted verbatim. The second reading of that ordinance. Would be scheduled on December 3rd and that would also be adopted verbatim. Then on December, 17th is the reading of the resolution calling for the election and the ballot language refer. Referendum wording then goes on the ballot during the municipal election to be held on March 11th 2025 ball language must state if the question is sponsored by the Charter Revision Commission by the Board of Commissioners or by public initiative. In the event of any conflict among proposals, the proposal receiving the greatest number of affirmative votes, um shall prevail, uh to the sentiment of such conflict. Um I , as well as Miss Manis and Attorney Salzman are available to answer any questions and are happy to assist you through this entire process. Are there any questions on this timeline? Will we be giving your, uh Attorney Souls Mi's contact information? Uh, yes. I can forward that to you. I don't think I placed it in the book at the time because we weren't sure which attorney would be handling this. Yeah, Some of the dates in here differ from what? You were just saying. Well we get an updated, corrected version of this. I assume you said October 3rd, and it's October 2nd on this and well, I it says October 1st is the meeting the 30 days follow within the 30 days. The 30 days are October. 3rd. If you see in the Parentheses there, it says within 30 days, the 30 Day Mark is October 3rd. But the To fall within that 30 day mark That commission meeting is October 1st. We have. They can't go past that before the right the deadline. OK, 58. And some of those have that same thing on, uh, within 100 and 20 days you'll see further down November 19th is the meeting the 120 100 and 20 Day Mark is the 11th of November. See, I don't see those dates on what I have at all. At the very end of those sections. You I I'll double check and provide it. This is Adopted verbatim with 100 and 20 days from election, which is November 11. OK? So it can't be prior to November. I'll I'll double check it. I have a question. It can't be before November 11th. So this is maybe for you. Maybe for you and Mr Salzman together. Your mic? Yeah. I'm sorry. Two if mr Casks and Dr Root can you put your bike down for the televised they just did for me. I'll turn it on when I have something to say. Oh, I didn't know you had yours off, OK? So on September 3rd. I get that that that our report goes to, uh, the board of commissioners. Right? That's correct. OK, so no. October 1st it says that the Board of Commissioners deadline to submit changes to the city clerk. So changes of what So if y'all present something to the board, um that you make your presentation on September 3rd. They might say, Well, would you consider changing this or tweaking this? They have 30 days to come back to review it What y'all proposed and come back with any changes. They might not have any. They might have some, um, so then it would come back before this board and the board would say yes, we're gonna Except that and change it this way or no, we don't. We don't want to. You don't have to What happens in that event in the event that you don't change it, then? That's why each right you don't you wouldn't change it, But then they could come back and in the board of Commissioners or by public initiative could come have it, Uh, contradicting or Question. Uh, you might say it's not a good analogy, but you might say, I want it blue. And they say no, we want it red, but And then whichever it could both be on the ballot. And that's where the commissioners the board of Commissioners, John at that time. What they do is they write their own. Example of what they want versus what we gave them, And both those will go to the public to choose. It's just not over with because we say no, we're not going to change, right . You have the ability to present something no matter what you think to the electorate and then on the ballot. It has to say if it's charter, uh, initiative or if it's board of commissioners unless it fits illegal, right, right and we have to be careful how certain things are written based on you know the requirements under The law, right? But once that's done whatever position you take, theirs could be contrary. OK? My experience gone. Two or three times I've been on this board is that the board of Commissioners normally go along. They might grumble when the Chairman is making that presentation but for the most part, they go along with it, because what what everybody will see in Doing this new charter is that It's Pretty firm around what belongs in the chart, and it's We're not here to discuss, uh Paperwork that they do on Tuesday nights, even though they agree to it. The charter is the charter. It's our our Constitution. I just my point. Was that. If they wanna have both. That's fine. But I don't wanna sit here for six or seven months and then they go. We don't like that, and we're going to do what we want anyway. So as long as what we decide is a Collective committee. Is put forth. That's that's good. The one that I chaired. It was one way and that's what the charter revision proposed was What went to the electorate. I mean, we interviewed the elected officials and we took it in. We took into account their Thoughts. But once it was And you were on that committee, Jimmy. Once that was decided, that's it. It's I mean, it's changed a little bit. I'm not. That's fine as long as normally how you see it. Uh, I mean, it's the only time a group of people like us We're going to tell the board of commissioners who have been elected. No. We now changing it. And it's over. At that point, they can put their They what they want in and the public. The public normally supports this board. And uh, you'll see as we go along. It's Makes you feel good that I don't want to say too much board members in the room. No, John, I'm kidding. It's Joan. It works out very easy. OK with the two way we did it one way, but as long as what the committee decides gets to the electorate, that's What I wanted to be assured of. And for those of you who didn't hear Mr Salzman. Ratify that. Typically it's done the way we did it years ago, which was what the charter revision committee says. Is what went to the electorate. 15 years ago. That way, I remember that. Order of commissioners at any time. To bring something before the election. Yes, they can. And a petition. If it meets the requirements of residence. They could bring something for If I'm not mistaken, they can do that. But they can't put it in the charter. Because you have to call the charter group back and say we wanna change this. So I'm the only time you want to be a bully to the board, and I was just relax, guys. And this way. This has been done this way since 1983. It was adopted this section, so I mean, there's changes along to this. Usually I can tell you though, from the last Five charters We handled personally, It's it works together. It's I. I don't think I've seen one Um, conflict of questions. You could make a recommendation to change the process. Around me. I do have one additional question. I mean, in the past, we've always asked the board of commissioners individually to come in and speak to this board about what they like or dislike. We're still gonna do that. Yes you could ask staff you could you know, city Manager, Uh, you could ask past, um, Charter. Uh, board members, the commissioners and like you said, however, y'all wanna do that We'll discuss I'll discuss it with the chairman and we could schedule you know, however, y'all want to do it one per agenda. Schedule them every 15 minutes. Half hour. Uh, you know, once we get Have have to the Board of Commissioners have have y'all given them a copy of the chart of the existing charter. They have They have that You don't know it, but they have it. They should. They should have it. OK? And makes it a lot easier when they come up here and then Yeah, um As well. You know, our code book is online. So the There were any cha. You know all the codes and stuff that is the most current copy of anything. Um we'll also have the authority to pop it up for the public once, uh, We start talking about each section. Quite honestly, this article. Conversation. I've never had any bad feedback from the board of Commissioners when I presented one of these to him, so it's it works out good. And then it's a good process. Once we have the questions, Uh, you know, we do. We can only state facts, But we would do a summary that this board would approve as well on each question. Uh, because you know, the ballot language is only 75 words. And the title is only 15 words. So we wanna make sure that we capture whatever the So people can understand the intent of that question. That's the proposal part that it is difficult, very difficult 75 words. Difficult. And it might be also that y'all talk about a section and then yeah, my kind of Move past it and then come back. Uh, the clerk's office does try. I don't know if that'll be helpful again to keep a track of Who brought that up and what meeting was brought up for each section. And what? Y'all decided not to what y'all decided to go for. To kind of keep a For each section. That's good. Any other questions on the timeline. No OK, we'll move on to the next and probably most important is the election of a chairman. And our chair, I should say, and, uh, so the way this will work is we'll open the floor for nominations. Um And then if they're more than one nomination, um Well, then, um As we do it by vote, the person with the majority all take the chair position, and then they would take over the rest of the meeting. So uh, if we can go ahead and open the floor for nominations, do we have any nominations? I'd like to nominate carry root. Second I would I Now this is a This is a kind of a complex process and, um I think Kris Probably bright, I think you said on the previous charter revision. Yes I was on the last one. But I think that the there's a certain perspective gained by Former elected officials, having sat on both sides of the Of the guys so to speak. And um so I would nominate Jim Kanis to be the chair. And I will say Jim was a great chair last time. You have any other nominations on the floor? OK, so we'll go ahead and close the nominations, and Miss Manus says. Can you take a Well. Do you want individual? Um, alphabetical. We would have to. Yes, OK, um, in the book of Alice. You know? Uh, so we just were voting for him have to vote on one of the chairs. No. Um Guess I'll go for Dr Root. Dr Root M Cos. I certainly gonna vote for myself. Yeah. Doctor. I'm happy to serve. After Well. Spirit of congeniality, Jim, I vote for doctor. There you have it. Uh, so now I need a motion to that effect. I moved in a second. All in favor. I know all opposed. To OK? Uh oh. I'm gonna do a vice chair. You want emotion in the vice chair or No, I'm well. First we're going to ask for nominations for the vice chair. I'll nominate Mr I'll second that We're not motioning yet. We're nominating. Are there any other nominations from the floor? We have a motion to nominate Mr Colon's vice chair. Did you get that Irene? All IN favour any opposed Pass. We just switched sizes. She was the vice chair and I was the chair. This works out, guys. I'm OK. We're we're a good team, Jim. We do. Right Agenda. My item number five. Let's talk about meeting dates and times. Uh, Irene, do you wanna leave this, sir? Um the city clerk's office, along with the city attorney would like to be sure that the charter meetings are properly staffed to better serve you. In order for filming purposes when other meetings are not scheduled, or staff are meeting dates will be set on Monday, starting at 2 P.m. going no later than 5 P.m. Unless we have a special a special meeting might be needed and that that time we would have to check room and staff availability. Um then it would be up to the commission. On how y'all How often you want to meet? How long you wanna meet? Um I. I think it beginning last year, just for example, we started every week could be every two weeks. I mean, it's up to the commission. How they wanna move forward with those meetings. Well since we're going into the summer season, I think it would be helpful if we started with a summary when everybody's gonna be gone just in case like Fourth of July week , it's empty or city staff can't support it or the attorney can't support it. We know that so we have, like a block out schedule and we go from there. The other thing I think would be Helpful to me is to see how many meetings we had last. Commission meeting because I know we met more than once a week on a number of times. I mean, we met a lot more than we. We Exactly what was necessary to get to that last right. And it was. It was not once a week. So, I. I think that it it would help the board to see what what we did last time. I. I can forward that to you. And I would suggest to the board that we considered, uh following, uh, the time protocols like we did last time, for example, setting our meeting time, but we had loosely aligned about an hour for at the beginning of the meetings where we had, um, invited people come in, Um We gave them that time to Share with us their thoughts on the charter and allowed us to question them. Um and I think I would go ahead and do that, you know, Start just start that right up front and get them in with their opinions right on. Um, the other thing? Uh uh. If you haven't If you're on this board and you have not read the charter, I strongly encourage you to do that. And if you don't have a chance to read it in its entirely before we really start the guts of this meeting. These meetings, um, at least be familiar with the sections we're going to be looking at at that next meeting. Um what I did find is there are areas where, um, For the most part, the charter is written. Um, so that There's not a lot of bleed from one section to another, but there are a couple of areas where that does happen, so it really helps to have read the whole thing in its entirety. Um So Mondays is a good start, but I think by next week it would be helpful to have a blackout schedule. So then we can go and schedule from there. I can get with you. If everyone wants to send me their schedule, or I can get with everyone as well and also get with you, Uh, Doctor Reid to, um, start scheduling people. OK? I think that would be helpful. Thank you. So yes. Are there any Mondays that you're not scheduled for that, you know of Right now. We've cleared our schedule for Mondays at two. 3 to 5, with the exception of a memorial day and Labor day, right? OK, I won't be here on, um May 13th Louder, Please. I won't be here. May 13th. OK That's what I have here. The 29th. We all have lives and the good news is the way this is structured with a chair and a vice chair. A good vice chair. Um thank you. Yeah that we we'll We'll do a lot of work arounds. Um, but Know that it's televised as well. We'll be sure that we forward the information if it's passed out if we meet And we're only you know, we only have one person not attending. Yes And the fact that the meetings will be recorded is really wonderful because they weren't last time. Um attorneys. When would you ask ? Answer a question. Um if you watch a recorded meeting and you take notes As a board member is I considered A public record. Interesting question. I have I really, To be honest, I have to look at Okay, well, we'll just play it safe and bring our notes. But the bottom line. It would be helpful to understand the answer to that. During a public meeting. I Yeah, I'll look, but I would probably say no. OK And then then the other question would be is, Uh, I did notice. There was a note about, um Special occasions when, uh uh , someone who is part of the commission can't be here but could participate remotely that that is allowed under special. I don't think they have those capabilities in this. Um Oh, I. I thought I thought I read that. No, would you Hm. Are you talking about that under our charter? No it wouldn't be under the charter of the charter wasn't doing that. At that point. I don't remember where I saw that Carrie. Sometimes a 10 attendance is allowed, but not voting. Um sometimes attendance is allowed, but not voting as it might have been in the Sunshine Law one in the Sunshine law. They allowed that when the governor uh COVID-19 COVID-19, and then he took it away. It was a wonderful thing, actually. Yeah. All right. So, I. I saw that it was you can have a majority not participating virtually So, um Agencies that do that. Where they allow some participation. I've seen that with the special districts. Um again. We're like you said you have Your forum here and can somebody participate? But we are. We cannot do that. Here. You don't have that ability. All right, but they will be recorded so that if you do miss one, especially if we have one of the charter officials or Um The commissioners here speaking to us, it's really good to hear what they have to say, as we consider changes moving forward. So um, I do have a question of the chair, So our next meeting will be Monday, and we'll decide on Monday whether we're gonna go biweekly or weekly and then ramp up. To the extent that we need to ramp up OK? Yes Bring your calendars next Monday. If you have not been in communication with Irene, please. OK so, uh, let's I'd like a motion to, uh, accept the Monday afternoons as they city currently can support and then we will go from there after that, but let's go ahead and have a motion for Monday afternoon. Seconded Melton, is that you both all in favor. And they opposed And Irene. You can help us with that next week, then OK, thank you. Thanks for my cheat sheet. This is just so wonderful, especially Color-coded. Oh, I think that Takes us through. Um, our voting. Part of the Center part of the agenda, or are there any public comments? And I assume we do need to identify ourselves and share address. Peter is 514 Ashland Avenue. Welcome to all of y'all. First, uh as a technical thing. That the meetings are being recorded. Someone who watches meetings afterwards. Please when you speak and discuss and ask questions, pull the mic to you. Because what happens when you're watching a meeting afterwards? What was that? John said. What was some John said, and you can't hear and then someone will come back and answer it. And you hear the answer. But you're not sure exactly what the question is. So I would please appreciate that fact. Secondly is, Mr Saltzman said. We're all different individuals. Were unable to come forward. Without certain viewpoints. And he mentioned prejudice and biases. So I would ask that all of y'all Look openly. Listen to the different people that may come before you. And try to come together. For what's best. For the city in the residence. Not any particular interest group. Party. Affiliations ethnicities or those natures and I confident that this group can do that. Uh, I do appreciate the fact and I have to Say you're lucky to have such a good helping staff that prepare so much for you. Uh but we appreciate their work, and I have to acknowledge that publicly because without Irene and Michelle and some of the other stuff that prepares all these things for you, I don't think you could go forward as efficiently as needed. So I thank you for your time. I know. 1820 weeks. One meeting a week. Two weeks is, uh, an endurance race. Uh, so please make sure you get your energy drinks or whatever. So you can handle a Monday meeting and any other subsequent things. So I thank you all for your time and appreciate greatly. Uh the challenge that y'all have before you. Thank you. Thank you very much. Um, Prince all taken My close enough. Can you hear me now? Um Any other public comments. OK, I'm gonna turn it over to Borden. Staff comments. Uh, I'm gonna start with, um Uh, our city clerk. How many comments? No comments. OK our assistant city clerk. No comment . No comment. Our attorney. No no. OK, um Mr Chair, Panny. I'm looking forward to working with everyone. Thank you. We need to do the microphone thing closer. I'm looking forward to working with all of you. Thank you. Mr Seaman. Also looking forward to working with everyone. A good group. Thank you. Dr BUCA ales. Uh, same here. Uh, very looking forward to this very much. Miss Jennings. I'll let go of the sentiments of the other members of the board. I'm really looking forward to it. I know everybody that's here and I just I, I think again. We're really good group. Mr Kano can only say that . I think this is gonna be a great group that we're gonna get through this thing very quickly, and, uh, everybody is doing Be very proud of what we've done. Mrs Yeah, I first III. I considered it an honor to be even recommended to sit on this board and to be able to participate in this board, uh, into the, uh, be able to give direction to the city. We all love so Thank you. Thank you very much for your comments. I'm going to add to them. I agree with it being an honor. We have the trust of our city commissioners. Um, that's why we're here. Um I think we have a board. That represents a significant, um, amount of, uh, talent that we will be giving a significant amount of our time to do this well. Um And I'm gonna start with the Statement of gratitude to Irene and all the work she's done to bring us together here. Thank you very much as well as Michelle. And with that, I conclude this meeting at 325 on April 22nd.