##VIDEO ID:fBQtqFV1A_0## pass the it's am good evening everybody it is October 15th at 6 p.m. I'm going to call the meeting to order will everyone rise for pledge to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all all right uh roll call we are all here tonight so thank you everybody for attending um we'll move into adopting of tonight's agenda do I have a motion in a second ation do I have a second second any discussion on tonight microphones please check check thank you um I just add met with Kevin uh this morning and we're doing some sewer repair work we got some new voices I'd like to add to the agenda for approval they just came in well they're estimates but and he need auth number three for new buiness sure anything else okay all right all in favor with the addition of our sewer addition to new business uh we'll go ahead and adop T next's AG say hi hi all right moving on to the consent AG a motion in a second make motion second any discussion on the consent agenda tonight yes I'd like to P the uh HBC minutes for further review and some updates okay to do that uh no can I just ask what page start up that HBC P 49 thank you both there's two there's two set there's two dates there um July 10th against September 11 September 11th okay so keep July 10th September 11th anything else all right all in favor of adopting the consent agenda say I okay we will move on to our public forum we have one public forum and Ponders please join us evening uh so I'm here my name is Peter smothers and uh I'm a resident of schaer Township but my wife Jackie and I own the what's colloquially known here locally as col Cottage short-term rental right down the street here big steel Red Roof hard to miss if you're coming down the street so um I've been to quite a few meetings lately and uh I'm here to speak to you guys on the short-term rental license proposal so I guess I just start with uh really thank you to your Planning Commission members who really have been doing a great job of a non-glamorous role to uh facilitate some public discussion on this um I think the spirit that is intended and actually um the entirety of what they came up with I I really like the the framework what I am here to suggest is that the framework that has been suggested be used solely as a new conditional use permit process okay um if you were to take a look at at our specific conditional use permit for our property when we were nestled Under the Bed and Breakfast chain it was quite messy everybody worked really well together to get there but this has been long overdue to fix um I'll dive into um why I think the cup process is much better than the license that's proposed and so um again I I'm in lock step with your Planning Commission on on what they're after but it's the mechanics of how we get there and my suggestion is conditional use permit only without a license um a City License is going to be redundant upon on top of the state and County requirements that we already have as business owners and the city already gets a say every year on our renewal of our County license so I would come in and see Liz and grab a signature from her and my proposal would be that included with your new cup process specific short-term rentals that we'd have a little one pager for every year when we come in to get our County License Liz gets to take a look and go oh problem with property Brandon and she gives a call and there's a discussion but most often I believe the answer would be yep check this box you got your insurance yep you check this box you have those guidelines that your license proposal already launs it's already built in here and the State Health Department top of the County License that we have to get does inperson inspections every other year on all the properties so we already have iners inspections done um and I don't know if their final proposal included a recommendation to have staff go look the properties or not but I would say now we're really duplicating the efforts of our higher level governing authorities um that would to address the uh the enforcement side of it would be to have them going and doing these checks your city staff okay but when we're already being visited it gets to be a little bit frustrating as um I can't remember her name Brian did such a great job and one of the Planning Commission members uh noted that she drove around town and looked at all them and she goes gosh these are really nice you guys and so what happens is that being a big proponent of the Invisible Hand of the market it's just way more so in the shortterm indry because if you're not five star reviews across the board on Airbnb it's really self- policing and self-regulating because you're not going to make it and so I think a city that's just getting back on its feet with getting everything organized which is commendable to everybody here I'd really love to see our city staff focusing on ke properties that when you drive by they're obviously in need of some attention right versus the 10 12 20 whatever we end up with where folks are gosh that's a nice house right so so that would be my my take on that one um and and I think the bigger discussion is that if we don't want to be here having this discussion every year one thing that uh Brian found out running the Planning Commission he did a lot of research was that everywhere that they have done licenses for the short-term rentals he's like man this comes up in their minutes like every year again over and over and we're talking about an administrative license process that you guys do you put your best for you go hey these are great ideas and the next group that comes in here goes you know I didn't like 20 we're going to go to 22 and I didn't like uh this and we're going to switch this around and it's all done administratively in the office and if somebody wants one they fill out the forms check the boxes they get one with the cup process they get to come in here and it can get to down to a specific as I've been sitting in this room when somebody comes in and says you know I see my neighbor wants a short-term rental but I don't want their guests going down my steps to the river on River Street well that's a perfectly reasonable request they added it to C so sorry it's okay so the the end result when I talk about Legacy is that if you can enact this Same Spirit of what's been proposed through a conditional use permitting process only without a license I think you stand a great better chance as a community to have something that sits under a statutory process that stays consistent for a longer period of time and I don't I know if you guys able to find out anymore but um the City attorney the discussion has come up and I guess we were told we weren't told we can't limit the number of cups for short-term rentals I guess I wasn't told we could but we were told maybe right that was unusual so I think for the legacy of of this Council and for the longer term view of uh of the community I think the C process is going to be far superior thanks appreciate it thanks is there anybody else that have to fill out like to speak okay we will move on to a new business then and superintendent Brian G here up welcome thank you thank you good evening Mr Mayor City Council Members Brian beat superintend to S Lake Schools uh last year we started tradition coming out here and actually talking about our school diss so I appreciate the opportunity to come again tonight and have that conversation again so I think for one thing for me it's it's important to make sure I get to do the best job my job best part of my job which is come and brag about the good things our staff and students are doing on a dearly basis so I'm going to start with a couple pauses first and then move into some things we're working on as well so I'm have my assistant come up here so to hand you some information I'll start with what he's going to not hand you first I want you know that we're a leader in the district and in the region for a number of reasons overall first and foremost an accountability perspective we actually do a really good job of making sure we're putting kids in the right direction so they can be successful throughout school we take a look at what we're held accountable for from the state federal level for test scores we're Excel we're the leader of the region and we're doing really good work to make sure kids get what they need in our schools each and every day what I hand you too was the information about our career pathway program schools are just are not just about the academic performance and getting to college it's also what career Pathways too when giving them an opportunity to see themselves in lights this sort of highlights the seven different Pathways we offer in our schools we are a leader in the state of Minnesota and what we do here we're really proud of the work because we have practitioners that are actually helping our kids develop these skills so they can go and be job ready with leave of our schools last piece too is that there's been new legislation the last couple years around literacy to make sure that our students can read effectively as they go through school and on to life as well I want you know that we're one of the few districts by the 1% districts in the state of Minnesota that actually complet the entire training we started 5 years ago and we are the leader in which we have the state department coming in using our materials to model for the rest of the state we also have other districts come in to see what we're doing because they know we're leading the way in that in that piece so it's I want you to understand that again the work that's happening here is really special and it's something I'm really prideful of because we represent the communities we're a part of incling tlor faults in the near future some things we're working on right now we just did a comprehensive facility study plan uh six months ago and we actually started reporting on that to our school board in the last month um it's important because again it gives an opportunity to really go into all of our buildings and have an opportunity to see what really the challenges are what the needs are that need to be met and to have a plan to really go ahead and execute that and take care of that from long term we've already developed a plan at least initially of what we would like to accomplish in a 15 20 year time window to sort of but up some things we need to take care of and address those needs so we can have some confidence in our communities that we can take care of our facilities for um there's a major report you have night time Leisure Time overall you can go and pull up on our website 38 pages but it really details every building in our district and the work that we're doing moving forward uh beyond that piece we also have a community advisor group we're meeting with right now this group of people in our community are coming together to help give us some feedback on how we can proceed with our appointment so with the information we put together we want to make sure we're going to our taxpayers and to our stakeholders and ask what else can we do what does it look like and help us s of again Forge that road and path to where we need to go as well we already met for the first time in September we have two more meetings at this point coming up and they'll actually bring recommendations back to our board to talk about the next steps for us too the last piece is that we are going to be starting this future planning process as well we haven't done one in about 10 years and as many you probably know is that things change PR pretty much every year especially in the last couple days that things change pretty quickly we're going to make sure we're in the Forefront of that by having a good plan to sort of guide our way of what we want to be in the future and how we want to serve our communities and help our students get to their fullest potential gr I'm end with this I just want to thank you for your service as well I think sometimes it's understated that again we have that old ad that it takes an Village to raise a child we need every part of our community to support us and we know we have that support from our cities like T Falls so thank you for your work that you do whether you know or not you make an impact with our students in our schools and our communi so thank you for that peace on that I will take any questions you have for me at this point I don't have any just a comat it's a great school district and you turn have great kids and I think that you are doing a great job thank you app I don't have anything but thanks for all you do yeah and I'd like to thank you for all you're doing too I think U community outreach is obviously important um your community advisor panel that you mentioned what is that who makes that of so we have people from our district uh come together and make recommendations with a community sector wheel it's a wheel that represents 20 parts of what a community makes up so you have faith community medical small business we took recommendations from about 20 30 people and then went ahead and invited people to be a part of that have representation from every different sector of our community and that allows us to have much more of a fuller conversation oppos looking at things from the inside lens of the school district where it's myself making those decisions the whole Community has a chance to be a part of that conversation first meeting was just really about our story who we are what we're trying to accomplish where we're trying to go next meeting is going to be more about taking some plans we're thinking about especially on the bond perspective and helping us to figure what we want to do and then present so do you know how many parents are on that oh we have about 30 members overall and I would say that there's probably at least 10 some play dual roles so some might be a Community member that's also parent in our community but I'd say there's five at least 10 parents on yeah nothing else I I met with one of them this weekend actually and she shared me with me what uh they were up to and she's really passionate about so I'm happy to see somebody from T Halls uh involved in this um you know representating our little school here as a big fure so anyway can help um when it goes to these meetings can public attend or these you know private meetings yeah and here's the best part too they can't attend those pieces we will be presenting everything publicly to people at the board meeting and then you'll see articles in the paper and some communication with me as well we want people to know this information because we have a lot to tell I think partment is trying to catch up with maybe in the past there's been a lot of good information that we need to share we're going to share as much as we can some people can look and say I see what you're doing thank you for your thoughtfulness and this is the plan we're absolutely awesome that's all I have thank you so much thank you appreciate you can you leave a couple of these on the back for us to put okay thank AB um going on to uh number two on the new business Charley rental for the 2025 Wan days uh it's for a deposit again we will be partnering up with s c Falls to cover 5050 um Diane on our EDC called around and U Got quotes from Stillwater trolley and then a trolley company that we used this past Wan days um surprisingly Still Water trolley was a lot cheaper and that's going to make it so that we can have troles both Friday and Saturday this year um which is going to be really exciting so from what we gathered when he started counting we were over 300 people Road the original trolley but he didn't count for the first three hours so we is that count the people who wrote it twice like no I don't have a clue that's a good um but you know I I'm super excited we need a $500 deposit and then the rest can be due um as you can see the dates um you know by June 18 so that'll give us time to work on um maybe getting some other people to donate and help us cover the cost so what I'm asking is a motion in a second we can discuss it and then hopefully we can vote I'll make a motion that we open up discussion on do I have a second I have a second um no I don't have anything at this point it looks good GL we can um secure it at this point I I don't see it as a burd of cost and I think you have a good point about giving us time to get some donations so and I think we will no it's a good idea especially GRE they can run it two days that would be great well I think it was a very successful program for Wan days it fit bit and pursue next yeah I know the W Comm support this they appreciated it last year I just have two questions are we going to just details are we going tolit the with Cy are we just paying for that and then we'll work out the details later and then what fund is it coming from just so much sure um we were just going to do the deposit and we'll take that off of our our total when we split that and then um I was I told Michelle to use the have 500 um if we get to a point where we don't get enough donations we can take the rest out of the EDC um fund as well um as their PL so their carry will be enough to cover our half that's I guess splitting it yes okay yeah yeah oh I know I know I know right I mean it's so the the full amount um is $2,587 for two days $2,587 for 2 days days versus about that what we paid last year for one day so um and it will be air conditioned and really nice just like it was this year so it'll be really that's the one thing that we got feedback on is don't go less we want the if it's warm they want to be able to ride in air conditioning so um I I'm super excited I thank them so much for um Diane for calling out and getting the numbers for us so um that's about all I have I I recommend that we go with water trolley versus uh Rene's limine just due to the cost and and having them for two days anything else no all right all in favor of um covering the $500 deposit to Still Water TR using the wanan days fund say I hi any post thank you all right and number three on new business is our sewer um addition all yeah we had a uh an issue on uh West Street and uh required some digging and uh it's going to require some asphalt patching as well Kevin has estimates on that um this would come out of the sewer fund not the general fund um the excavation and kind of the ration uh that was with accessing and repair and filling a line was 88 9826 um and then to do the asphalt patch U will require another $3,936 so what you have in front of you are the two proposals SL estimates and um Kevin needs to we've already begun the work because it was emerging with Most Wanted the seal TCH he was going to give them authorization as soon as we approved it so if we approved to so I just wanted to make sure that U he had the green light to go ahead like this so we Most Wanted are they done then have they completed or did they if they're not complete they're close Okay um and there just a little bit more information there was a sewer backup um it's now in the hands of the property owner and the city's Insurance Agency the city has stepped back and let the um insurance company take the lead on on what happens next so um 98 26 is the full is full amount 98 26 plus 336 it's in addition so two 39986 if I can just ask the balance currently is this accurate 114 16905 sounds about right yeah and I suppose beinging Insurance the insurance doesn't cover our portion so we couldn't turn this in do we know I don't know that I it was a it was a break in the line from what I understand so I don't think that fall was okay no looks like they did a good job over there you know they got to fill in with gravel right so I do have to say I know Paul's not here but thanks for Paul reacting really quickly that Saturday morning and getting over there and uh trying to help as much as he could for the situation so plol um he reacted really quickly so and thanks to the council that you know to just make sure that people know that we're aware when this stuff happens but so and thanks for Kevin for getting these quotes So I I mean I've kind of been in the back watching this all happen so I don't really have anything do you have any no it's got to take care of the repairs and take care of the streets so necessary to so I'll need a motion let's start with Seal Tech we'll do a motion in a second for the Seal Tech invoice and then a motion in a second for I'll make a motion that we uh approve um the the work proposed by sealtech in the amount of $3,936 do I have a second second any other discussion on Seal Tech all in favor approving the Seal Tech B for $3,936 say hi hi night okay and then I'll make a motion uh to approve the proposal submitted by Most Wanted for 9,826 yeah I will uh to come out with the sewer fund I will second that any other discussion on the most wanted our proposal okay all in favor say I I thank you thank you all right moving on to Old business uh number one on the old business will be um more discussion and possible approval of the 2025 staff uh health benefits um we had discussed last year and then we discussed during our um budget meetings um the employees have came to us they would like to have health insurance provided by the city um so uh since I put this on here I'll make the motion that we discuss um 20 25 staff health benefits um for possible approval of that do I have a second a second thank you um in the packet you'll see that um we have the heal Partners options um two different ones really pretty similar there not whole L um and this is for shering Michelle Elizabeth and Kevin Paul has benefits outside of the city so and he is welcome to join it but that would change this obviously so this time around he can't so it's going to still be like open enrollment like most of the S so um with this paperwork we do need to get it in before I believe December to make sure that we are ready to go so that they can start right away at January so Tim I stuck down here with you and we just kind of go down the line and talk yeah um I'm going to propose and I'll explain myself thorough more thoroughly but I'm going to propose that we table this for now until we've had our our next budget meeting um time is somewhat of the essence um I talked to staff today and uh want to make sure I think they requested by the 10th of the month but since everybody is to start the next month and since everybody is new there's a little anxiety around that so the sooner the better so we don't want to wait until December 10 sample preferably get it in sooner than that um one of the the reasons that I would uh suggest tbling it for now is we haven't finalized our budget that's the primary reason that I will propose tabling it we have our budget meeting next Bud meeting on a workshop on the 30th so what I would like to see is us talk about this more thoroughly then and then at our first meeting in November have it on the agenda to approve this component of the budget to approve this so I can get the paperwork in and get things ready to go for January 1st um I've not yet been able to complete the wage and benefit um assessment that we access to it's a little more cumbersome than I had hoped um but I'll have information ready for our budget meeting on the 30th so we can talk more about that um I plugged in the new numbers um the actual proposed numbers instead of an estimate into the budget worksheet so we'll have that available to us on the 30 as well thank you well you know to discuss this further makes sense to me um you know I'm just looking at two totals here but I don't know any any explanations for um what they actually mean so I would like further discussion if we can put that up till the next budget meeting which makes sense because you know it's going to be a cost to the city and we need to budget for it budget properly for it then I would agree with table I agree with those two we can see a little bit more figure where okay and I would also agree uh to table this one thing I I would ask is and I agree with um council member Jula K I don't I mean when we see this again can we have some other options what what our options what can we see differently this is 100% correct both of these yeah um so we can we can set any we can not approve it at all any health insurance we could do any increment from 1% employer P to 100% okay so so it's really that discussion do we want to do this and if so um what's the employer portion right that we want to contribute because I I guess I would like to see some of those numbers if we have this opportunity to do that can we see a 50% or do I just calculate it on my own well I've got that in the spreadsheet so um Just for kicks and Giggles right now 100% payment would uh cost the city 41322 75% would be 30 about 1000 so there's a $10,000 difference there um and again we can go in any increment we want 89 whatever so um I do have a 50% calculated as well but that really isn't going to do much for anybody it's going to end up probably costing more money than they currently have so um yeah I guess I I am I in agreement time look it over December 10th is it sounds like that's too late I we'd like to do something before that but if we can have some of those some of those options and look at them what you know what what are the people of Taylor's Falls going to pay what's their portion so it' be nice to have that and it' be it'd be beneficial to the employees as well and I will strive to have as much information on the wage and benefit survey as I can squeeze out of that database it is very very big and there's a lot in there I started playing around with just the wages side like and you can't export no can't no makes it even more difficult difficult um yeah I um I totally get it one thing I think we need to do is pull some of the information from our packets in the past too so we can look at um everything that we had once because it's a long time ago we first this process um I one thing I would like to do is see if uh the insur insurance agent from at group can join us at the budget meeting just so we can ask him any questions um he's a wealth of knowledge like his insurance that's went back for a few times so I get a kick out of it but I think he'll have the answers to some of them um you know because I'm sure there'll be more questions coming up so sh if we can reach out and see if he's available for that just for clarification these that we're looking at right now these are at 100% right and in the original budget work that we've been doing so far the numbers weren't quite accurate they were pretty close I just added 5% to what was proposed and um they came out pretty close uh but we've been working in our budget with 100% employer so okay well thank you um we'll just go ahead and table making any decisions on this till we can meet on the 30th and that's at 8:30 right Sher yes so if anybody wants to come to that meeting that'll be our um budget Workshop um we can't increase anything we can only reduce now so that's the name of the game is trying to get the taxes slower than lom's at 8 so we want to try to stri below that but uh truth and Taxation is December so we need we need finalization on this before theth because we'll have to improve our our budget thank you Tim you're welcome okay um we'll go ahead and move on to our big topic of the night uh the addition of a short-term rental license ordinance um we'll start with letter A and then move move through them all for discussion and um keep in mind we can change things we can work on them we can table it um we don't have elizab here with us so um if we wanted to wait for her we can do that too but the uh moror ends the end of November so if we do that we just need to know that any changes we make next meeting we have to I need a motion in a second to open discussion I'll make a motion we open discussion on short-term rental ordinance second Troy I'm going to start with you um right now I I don't have anything to add I want to thank Peter for coming forward and give um give me some things to think about this um I did have some I guess I did have some questions for Peter just to bring out some more information all that it's up to you I so just to understand and summarize you're more in favor of a cup only correct outside outside of the license correct just to give everybody a little background besides owning and operating this one I'm a real estate broker by profession and property manager I own and man properties just like the Sur state for other individuals have that experience there one of the big pieces I I didn't want to hammer on it here but why like as an owner the benefit to me is that a conditional use permit runs with the land and if it were a license many reasons i' I'd be against it but one of the reasons is if it's not transferable as a license when I were to sell my property part of this proposal requires that another document to recorded against my property to over the top of my cup that says hey yeah this guy's got a cup but now he also needs to have a license okay no big deal until we hit a cap and if we say 20 we can throw that number a you there's there's 20 licenses given out Peter and Jackie Smothers want to sell their their property well even though I've gone through all the boops 18 months ago and just been issued my conditional use permit and I paid the license fee and we all get along and things are going SW well I can't sell my property to be used as a to be used with its conditional use permit that we procured because they're going to have to get a license and they're going to have to get in line at the end of the line that was the issue that I picked up reading through this you know having it's probably a deterrent to you selling your proper it could be really significant financially and so that was my big question you know being that there's a waiting list um the person who wants to buy you a property use it as as a EV breakfast s goes back to the end of the line to get his license see and I think maybe that needs a little more discuss that would effectively strip us of our cup yes technically it's there you know it's still recorded but because I can't have it run with the land because of the license it really takes away all the work that we just did and agreed on 18 months ago you also talked about um the concern of Regulation right um with the state already your county coming in and then you mentioned the city staff um it sounded like you were opposed to City staff coming in is this is this like a are you are you concerned about their workload um how do I put this I i' I've worked with Liz a bunch you guys who did she's you got a great hire right and I got a list for Liz you know we were chatting and just kind of wrapping through stuff and I'm like you can go to this house you can go to this house and if you want help I'll go knock on their dooring get that long mod you know because we want it to look great and I am concerned about their workload and some of the other people who attended uh the council um or sorry the workshops with the planning commissioner I mean I would say there's a number of people who would be downright offended to have their door knocked on when the first thing you see when you pull out of this parking lot is like can we knock on that door first you know no offense to to to get run this business but my house doesn't look like that neither do the other 11 short-term runs in to are sharp they're really sharp um that was all I had at this point um thank I think I would be in favor of discussing this a little more through it but other than that I'm I'm interested to hear what everybody else has to say yeah I don't I don't really he anything I I'm kind of an agreement with the conditionally was permit rather than the license well like I just said you know having read through this you know everything seemed pretty airtight until I got to the license license department and that just seemed to be an obstacle to if you want to sell your department to somebody El and next person will have to go to the end of the line to get their license takes care of that s that probably needs to be discussed have a number of things um starting on page 74 um item G license Ral um it says somewhere the middle paragraph documentation of at least two rentals in the proceeding 12 months is required and I kind of hearken back to the cvd license that we had that somebody could just take a license and hold it and not use it um that's not advisable if we are setting a cab of 20 and let's say we get there and we have a house that only rents cars out twice a year that's a little low to me because you're prohibiting else from getting a license and I would say either we get rid of the cab or we do something different with this requirement um because that just seems you know I could rent it out to my my in-laws and my brother and I satisfi the requirement and I wouldn't have to do anything else with it for rest of the year that seemed a little low to me I think we want business coming into town um that's the advantage of the shortterm a big Advantage for the city is we get people who don't wouldn't normally come here they stay here they spend money here um we get tax incentive from property taxes on shortterm so I I think they have to be a viable ongoing business to maintain a license if we have a license so um that was one thing I picked up on that just seemed awful L to me um the non-transferability the County doesn't um allow for transfer either but they don't have a cap on the number the county has and that's where we're running in that's where we're putting CS um if we were able to craft language in here that would say that if bu Peter sold his business and the new owner had 45 days to submit for example to submit a request for a license before going to the pool those who are kind of on hold I could I could approve go go along with approving a license but if there's a waiting list and the new owner goes to the back of the waiting list that's not fair to the own at all um there's they' invested a lot of money into these homes to make it a viable business it's like telling Romain that um if you sold his business you got for other uh liquor licenses and we can't guarantee that the new owner of your businesses going to be able to open a bar it just doesn't make any sense to me um so if we can keep the the non-transferability but given out for a new uh new owner of an existing short terminal to get into the queue ahead of everybody else that would be my my preference um that's on page 75 further on page 75 um F2 multiple family dwelling units of five or more limit to to a maximum of two short-term L unites of license and I do wish if Elizabeth was here because when I read the county Orin they only allow one short-term rental per personal so this would be going against what the county the way I read it this would be in conflict with the county I can tell you why that's there because we have an individual that's waiting for her I'm just let you know this is why this is why we I can't really talk much anymore at the zoning meeting so I just kind of sit there even know everybody directs everything at me half the time but um that's why they put it in there because we have a a building down past um the dve in that would like to went to and so well three three out of four so in in Elizabeth's um staff report it said the most restrictive covenant or ordinance supersedes any other so it seems the county would supersede ours so um I don't know how we resolve that um sounds like we might have to work with the count again if I'm reading it right and I have the ordinance right here and it sure seems to read that way so um and the limit of 20 I I don't know I I I trust the market to we have a lot of in place to limit where they can be you can't have you have to be so much apart from another rules around that um so I'm not going to comment any further on that but just that comment um and then I was wondering is the waiting list prioritized first in first out so to speak so I get in line I'm the 20 I'm the first one in line of waiting L am I first to get an open license once one comes available or is it somebody just knows that one's available and they come in and even though they're 10 of this they can one I don't I don't know that it wasn't clear in the in the documents so something else to resolve um oh and then I think I think the fee schedule is a little bit out of line um um if we keep a license $650 for the original license a hotel motel license is only 150 and they could have I don't know how many units do they have they could have 20 30 50 units and we're talking about one residential type unit that's qu ruple the cost of a motel license um so I think that's to high um most cities that I saw that had license requirements um most of them were way lower than that most didn't include origination fee if you will um the renewals range anywhere from $25 to $650 I think even higher um so I think the few schedules a little off um and remember they're paying for a cup as well pretty rigorous process that's where we need to adjust our fees that requires a lot of City staff labor and right now that's set at $150 so we really need to revisit that I would I would rather see us increase the conditional use permit fee than to charge a short-term run on that kind of origination fee renewal fee if we keep a license $100 isn't a big deal we're not making a lot of money on it do a little bit of Staff time so I'm okay with that um and there is a CH County fee to remember as well that's $300 and as Peter mentioned um the county does require the city to sign off on the Ral for um I didn't see a state fee I don't know if the Department of Health charges something but it wasn't in the statute for shortterm it's under hotels it's under tell stuff um but it's just like with piling on cost for business owner not a real big fan of that um I think that's all my comments I I would propose tabling it until Elizabeth has a chance to review our comments and come back and have some responses for us if I can I'm just going to press council member for some some numbers um license feed so we can move this along what would you suggest you have a suggestion I don't know I had I just threw out 200 it seemed like um the cup I have no idea I mean it it kind of depends I I don't know how other cities do it I'm not familiar with it okay um but it could be something very simple that doesn't take much staff time at all or it could be something really comprehensive and and rigorous that take a lot a lot of time how how long did the SE process take process take for you well it was the Glory Days here right so it took a while and there was a lot of work and everybody was very agreeable and helpful but it's a process it's invol the um and then on G1 I'm going to go back up uh Tim uh G1 you mentioned right now it's at 20 licenses right discussing a cap and saying you trust the market so do you have a number there are you happy with M I guess is that what I I I am a little bit ambivalent on the cap um because I don't I think there's a saturation point I don't know what it is um but it gets to the point where it's you're not going to be able to competitively operate a short-term rental because there are we're not going to have 40 short short-term rentals in the city TL CU none of them won't be profitable unless there's some tax thing that people are are trying to get through and they only going to rent it out twice a year and just using this for a tax right off and that's not what we want yeah would Peak my interest I guess when you said you trust the market and right away went okay is he talking about the short-term rental market or the housing market the short-term rental I mean it's a business okay I mean you could open 40 bars in town too and they're not all going to succeed um so I think you make a good point on the County ordinance uh conflicting with the city on F2 and I think we should really track that down or get some get some more information on you know what we can do um I don't know if you have anything on that FR let want comment just the the the contradiction between the um County ordinance and and what we have there would it help if I what the County ordinance well the issue that's there is whether or not the County ordinance actually supersedes the city or Municipal ordinance and my initial reaction is that I would not okay um usually County ordinances especially when they relate to zoning issues and this kind of Regulation that's going on here they apply in um un civilized areas in other words ones that aren't governed by a municipality under the cisions so that was my inial response to that and some of this layering on I think might just be a as far as this city is concerned get health regulations are a little different but I don't know this apply I Vie this as as a zoning regulation primarily most C well that's good to know because it doesn't differentiate between townships and municipalities no I mean it's just it's the world you know when you're the county but their world gets bounded by municipalities with it it actually even goes further if if a individual owner owns multiple Parcels adjacent Parcels that applies for all parcels the county has I suest county has its own series of ordinances that apply they apply here if you let you know Wonderful case example are the septic um count they tend to be County ordinances and they tend to be adopted by reference just for purposes of for nothing else by the cities within the counties I've never seen a city adop septic they tend be uniform and they tend to be the ones that the county has done and there are some cities that will follow uh the County's zoning provision Provisions just to out of have some recently Incorporated cities for example in Washington County U have Municipal ordinances that remarkably similar to what was governing them while it was under County supervision but you're you're your own so if we didn't have an ordinance would we default to the county well that's an interesting question uh I would say no and and U and just leave it at that because once once you're bounded by you know the boundaries of a city or municipality or statutory City those kinds of County ordinances don't normally ever apply to the health ones are different that's a different category but the ones that regulate no this may be a rhetorical question but why does the county have an ordinance for short-term my guess is because there's a lot of areas in the county or at least historically that's what they already were doing and there must be parts of this County that aren't governed by cities I apologize for not knowing where those are but U you know that's what happens with the zoning in most of the state by the way um is regulated most land of the state is regulated by the counties for just that reason apprciate and then I got one more comment on the viability of G um just so we can move the discussion forward you mentioned documentation of at least two rental in the preceding 12 months I have a tcy to agree with you that that does not confirm liability to me um but what number does five you know book ability well that's I'm looking for two but but is it bookable right rather than what did you do do they have a block though so you can't I don't know if that would benefit we're looking for business here right so how many times have you done business in the past 12 months every weekend right yeah is it season I mean nearly It season not nearly as much as I had worried it might be it's done while and so um with the number we said the number at 20 yeah you would certainly be able to if you're full-time if it's not in your D if it's not in your home you'd certainly be able to book 20 weekends out of a year you know casually I mean that that's that's an easy number to hit even for Birds you know doing the reverse of you know maybe when they're gone and doing it that way even one a month would be better than two a year right on average and not every month Pro prove that you're running a business 12 absolutely and you could live in your home move out for two weekends and call yourself a I don't know what the advantage of that would be but and in my mind whatever number you have would would be something that you could have on that form a onepage form hi Liz I need my signature for my County license in my mind of my cup that I'm just entailing not a license and here's my rental proof right whatever number that is goes on the one pager and I to your other point I think that I I think the cup process solves your dilemma between your county and your city because you're in here with Council and the neighbors and the community gets to have their voice on that c and you get to solve that all up front yeah I'm a fan of the cup I I really think that's a good process for for us and especially the concerns our residents have about you know oversaturation of the short T impact on other aspects of the community the permit I'm those are all my comments two things we got into this because res don't want too many and again 20 came for me just saying how about 20 really that's how it came out right and so we just went with 20 there was no thought process so we could change that to 100 I I mean I I don't like controlling markets either I'm not I think people want to run their business if they're not making any money they're not going to keep on doing it um and you could say that for any business you know um but we got to keep that in mind that the residents did want some type of thing I don't know if a license can or license do it but can we I mean the C process I've been watching how long it takes um it is not you know quick can you limit CS I know we've never I know we've talked about it and I know we talked about it at one of the zoning meetings I mean I suppose in theory you could for the right reasons I've never actually seen it happen but um you could and you know there's some things here think gravitating towards waiting till Elizabeth comes back hearing between Lin here that's probably a good thing I I U this was exhaustively debated and talk about plan commission don't want to send you down that path necessarily um part of the problem that you've got with cs you should keep this in mind is you've got some conditional use permits up were granted where I would say um let less thought that would occur now was put into making this happen so the kinds of restrictions that are now part of and parcel to what they have attached to their properties there really nothing you can control unless you do a a review process and your only option for those circumstances you do a review process you don't like what's going on then you pull conditional use perit uh that usually involves people showing up employers that usually involves all that kind of you're taking away a property right so my understanding here was the idea was to get some uniformity and regulation with using the U permitting process for that purpose uh I don't think there's a real problem as I see it by having if you're selling your your property and you've got a cup which is the underlying requirement and then you've got a a license I don't see a problem this is going to be an annual renewal kind of thing allowing that license to continue to the end of the year and then allowing the city to to do some scrutinizing but that's not necessarily a problem at all um having them lose a license or you know I don't I don't know how they us it 20 I don't know how many are there right now you can set the number quite high and not have this issue ever really come up it's not like you're dealing with a problem right now so there's this kind of hybrid system that that came out of all of this um has a certain amount of wisdom behind it if youum C we've got conditional use permits that were never really granted but the use have been granted in for example uh you wouldn't be able to take that away from them but you could regulate in the licensing process so it's a way of easing into an overall regulation I think that's where I'm guessing elizeth is prob talk why this came up the way it was um you know if it were up to me I'd say do both so can ask a question the so they have the cup and the conditions are listed in there would new licensing regulations supersede the cup um no to the extent that the cup for example allowed something so let's say you've got a cup that says you can have up to five uh separate individuals staying at a location just as an example and your license only allows three uh cup under those circumstances I think would supersede the requirements of the license that's my initial take on but um you know that that's the kind of conflict I can see I think if somebody has that as a property right they've got an argument that that lure is restricting their property right do that but the trick is to make sure that whatever licensing that you do provide doesn't get into those kinds of weeds and take on some requirments one of the things we may want to think about is okay what kind of things because we know this is always going to be the property that this can always be transferred um what kinds of things do we want to think about that should be attached to the property and what kinds of things really don't need to be you know regulations about I idea but you know something like that could be handled on a licensed basis but what I would consider to be more serious stuff to do TR having to do with hours of operation those kinds of things that are normal cup kinds of things um is something that you may want to say okay that's what we want when we're doing our cup and and the LIC your Stu more routine do you have a license or do you have insurance for and um you know let's say that it's only cup regulated and you manage to drill to get everybody to to to agree as a condition of their C that they have to have insurance makes sense um and somebody decides to go without and so they don't have insurance so you don't like that what are you going to do this stop and the answer is the only thing you really can do is have a hearing notice everybody and then pull the C that's the only option under those circumstances you would have I think you've got more regulative options on in the license room at least that's what I'm understanding here this is all the way forward this is quite unique I think and how it's being handled it's interesting from my point of view so you know but um I don't think it's either or I think the two but you are going to have to as you get into regulating um you are going to have to think about what kinds of things do we think are more proper and appropriate or the C and all kinds of things are maybe more routin or general that would be appropriate for licing now one last thing one last thing on this is question whether you can limit the number of people that are engaged in this by using licenses and you know it's if if if this were a use that were allowed all over the city under conditional use permit you add everybody can do it and it might make some sense to use the license your process for that purpose but I'm going to suggest that what you want to do is you're thinking about what we're going to regulate under one and what what's going to be involved in license you may want to think about that question and where you want to put those most limits and there you actually to parts of the city and all the rest of I want to apologize I have another meeting that I'm going to get to but um I I do want to that last point about the viability and the the number of times I I think that is a that's an excellent opportunity for us to do a lot of things um not only regulate or watch over everything but we can also see what the Market's like with that right we're letting the market kind of help us make our decisions and regulating um the shortterm rentals it wouldn't be an issue if we didn't have a cap on the number of licenses we had but if we go up but if we're looking at 20 like a right that's quite a few and that and that's beneficial not only you know to the to the property but to the city the people taxpayers as well but then we have that people those people coming but thank you everybody for a great discussion thank you any other I you know um what I would say is we wait for Elizabeth um everybody get their ideas questions concerns to her and then R uh discuss and for during the good that way she can put things together and we can do it properly so as far as I'm concerned I I mean I I won't be here on the November meeting so I'll put my notes down and make sure um but I I mean I like the cup process I think it's good I see some benefits on licenses too but I I mean I really don't want to anti any business so that's that's where I'm at as far as the license go and stuff I I mean I know they went through six or seven different cities and I think they probably took the Mee I know they went I know still water is really expensive and I think the is pretty highy I think there's areas I think that we if we really wanted to not have some in certain part of town I mean like duth they don't allow it in certain spots when I was looking on their website so we can do that and just say we don't want any the rest of town so just my two cents on anything else okay so uh let's go ahead and we'll table that to the November meeting um any uh Council reports on reports uh from Public Works just to note that uh we had our kickoff meeting for the rate assessment process it went really well forget how long we met but was almost two hours yeah so um starting that process give updates as necessary par cor um as the uh as The Fall season closes I'd like to once again tell Kevin thank you for all his work he done in Cher Hill Park you really made a beautiful garden and a showpiece for the city and U you know it only owes well for the coming season so thank you for all your hard work okay well I'll need a motion and a second to adjourn tonight's meeting I'll make the motion second of joury say hi thank you everybody