e e e e e e is now called to order would you please rise for the Pledge of Allegiance I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all thank you all right our next item is we will do a roll call uh with the board members please state your name for the record Dr Mark mckenny byon Longworth Stan cope Tony Anderson all right thank you very much and have all the board members received the minutes from the January 24th meeting yes yes are there any corrections or addition to these minutes I wasn't there I see none all right do I have a motion to approve the minutes so move and all right all in favor of approval say I I any opposed I need a second oh I'm sorry a second excuse me I believe right past that excuse me do I have a second I'll second it okay thank you now all in favor I I and none opposed all right motion passes accepting the meeting minutes for the January 24th 2024 board meeting okay so I want to review um I will briefly explain the board of adjustment procedures for tonight's meeting uh please listen and if anyone wishing to speak on any of these matters discussed tonight has questions please ask after I finish explaining the procedures the variance request will be heard and the board May approve approve with conditions or deny the requested variance tonight alternatively the board may continue a case to a specified date upon the request of the owner or applicant a staff report detailing the variance request and the staff's recommendation will be presented to the board by Community Development planner mik Hall the board May then ask questions of Staff the applicant will present their application and answer any questions from the board next the board will hear from the other person's wishing to speak on the application comments should be limited to relevant factors the application the applicant will be allowed to respond to comments from the public the board will then close the public hearing for discussion on the petition upon no further discussion by the board the chair will ask for a motion the motion must State the reasons for granting or denying the application staff will provide written correspondence to the applicant and owners after this staff meeting regarding the approval or denial of the application if approv the owner May submit the appropriate building permit applications or the city May proceed with reviewing building permit applications that may have already been filed H as a result of the board approval of the variance however please note that any action by this board is not final for 30 days and if the applicant moves forward to the prior to the expiration of the 30 days they do so at their own risk does anyone have questions about the variance process at this time all right all persons wishing to speak or be heard on the variance petitions please stand up to take the oath and be sworn okay do you swear or affirm that the testimony you're about to give is the truth the whole truth or nothing but the truth okay yes thank you everybody did everybody say yes okay I only heard one person okay all right all right City attorneys sashon will asked if board members have any expart Communications at this time if any board member has received any expart communication either written or oral regarding this matter this is the time that you need to State what that is for the record if you received anything in writing then indicate so and a copy of that is going to need to be made in order to give it to the clerk um if it whether it's written or oral you need to State when that communication occurred with whom you had that communication or from whom you received it and the sum and substance of that communication and I will start immediately to my left doctor if you'd please State whether or not you had an such a communication I have not okay next I have not I have not I have not thank you okay all right the Temple Terrace Board of adjustment will now open the public hearing on the variant ba 2401 for 319 BR uh Brentwood Avenue is submitted by is it samna is that correct samna KH Brentwood Drive Brentwood Drive yes correct oh I'm sorry I have Brentwood avue with brimwood Drive okay great 319 brimwood drive thank you all right we will start with the staff presentation Community Development planner melee H please make the staff's presentation regarding variance request ba 2302 good evening board chair members staff uh for a quick correction my name is Malik Malik I apologize you're fine I just want to make sure I need to say it now before it gets lost so thank you I'm sorry you're perfectly fine so we're here March 28th 2024 for the variance request Quest application ba2 24-1 the subject property has a zoning District of r10 single family residential is located in the flood zone X it's acreage is approximately 40 acres and 17442 square ft the existing variance under this property is a principal structure sidey yard setback reduction which is under ba-22 d05 the characteristics of this single family residency is a two-story home at a square footage of 4,178 square ft which includes a garage and then the related driveway these are areas of the property so we have an overhead aerial and then a sorry a front facade so arrow on the left front facade image on the right additional image a more up close view of the front facade more so on the driveway area and then the angled View for the aerial the variance requested is to increase the maximum loot coverage for this property from the Land Development code standard of 47.5% to 52% the reason for this requested increase in the maximum loot coverage is the proposed pool exceeds the available loot coverage the available lot coverage left for this property is 123 ft the area of the proposed pool is 915 ft Dimensions being 40t and 8 in by 22 ft and 6 in so the 47.5% equals 8,285 so the maximum lot coverage for this property is 8,285 Ft the existing lot coverage for this property is 8,162 Ft the proposed pool is 9915 Square ft so if you were to add the area of the proposed pool to the existing lot coverage it equals 9,77 ft which also equals 52% which is why they're requesting to increase the lot coverage from 47.5 to 52% these are the specs for the proposed design it includes the concrete decking around the pool uh the body of the pool itself which includes a swim out a bench and a spa component according to the applicant the drainage issue causes water to collect on the property and if the section of the driveway that she is willing to cut were removed then it would negatively impact the foundation of her home whether there is a drainage problem or not the proposed site plan can be redesigned without the need for a variance based on the calculations submitted by the applic applicant the applicant may have a pull up to 123 ft without the need for variance there appears to be no hardship any grievances result from the applicant's opposition to reducing the size of the proposed pool or the size of the existing D driveway or any combination thereof as for the findings of fact saf finds that eight out of the nine findings of fact are negative are there any questions just me get the report real quick to look at her application you but I do have a question um so is your primary argument basically that I think what I'm gathering this is that this is a really big house and because the house is so big is why they're out of space and the driver right the improvements on the property are at such large scale that the proposed pool is not permissible because it exceeds the maximum loot coverage and your argument is that a pool could fit if it was just smaller right 123 feet or less correct did you see there was a previous oh I'm sorry were you still no okay are you good yeah okay please um you said there was a previous variance on the property as well yes but that was for a side yard setback reduction so that variance does not um relate to lot coverage it did allow a expansion of the garage but that's already included in the calculation so all right I it was a minor expansion at at that right any of the other board members have any questions for staff at this time all right thank you you all right we will move on to the applicants presentation um if you could come forward please state your name and address for the record and make your presentation you will have 15 minutes uh my name is S Khan I'm at 319 Brentwood Drive I'm the owner um I've brought with me my engineer he's the head drainage engineer at the do on McKinley so he's very local he also happens to live at 406 uh sorry 327 uh St Augustine so he's very local he understands the property um what happened is I had planned to do a pool and then decided not to and then as time went by I decided that I wanted a pool um we do have excess uh sorry excess lot coverage which I did offer to cut back so we were in compliance with the 47 a 12% I had told Abdel that I'm willing to cut it back but he stopped me he said if you cut back from the side of the property which is where I have the bandwidth to cut back he said it's going to compromise the foundation of the home the reason is the location well he'll explain it in more detail but every time it rains not even when it's rainy season outside of rainy season and Malik did make it clear that the videos will be available every time it rains because of where the location of the property is we have excess water coming in from Glenn Oaks and Brentwood which is lit flooding my property I put in French drain I think they're called French drains I put in drains you put in a trench drains we put in two there's so much debris coming in from the street that it even fills up the drains so anything that I've done to mitigate the situation is still not effective we went to the city and we tried to find a solution they said well you can build a pool but then you have 6 months in which to cut the slab back the problem is the city is telling me that there's no real timeline as to when they will fix the drainage issue and it is there's a term for it um uh it's it's that would be like uh inverse condemnation or adverse possession um to store you know public um U you know water on a private piece of property um so that would be adverse possession of M's um property yeah and he's the the application covers the excess water that's coming onto the lot so I think Abdul said it's the water that's com on it's it it it doesn't even account for any remediation that we might do so I had told the city that once they remediate we can cut the slab back we also offered to put in a Swale to counter counteract the uh the water and that was the last sheet that was given to you the reason the diagram is small because I wanted to point out the date on the email as well this dates back to February the 12th we met with the city and they had said well what is your solution so the solution is to put this trench at the back Abdul as a PE has signed off on that as well that would adequately support any excess or going over but we've tried to work with the city in every capacity available I'm happy to cut back that slab but they've not made it a viable up uh solution for us I will have take over because he knows more you can stay here I'm not much of a public speaker but but what I've offered um to do is to put in um an exfiltration system that would pretty much you know um capture run off from a 100-year um storm which would be like 11 in of depth and completely you know mitigate offside impacts and I guess I'm not much of a you know I don't have a background in planning but the LDC mandates uh 47.5% to mitigate off-site you know um runoff impact and what we've proposed is to like uh completely capture that runoff and per percolate it in the ground so that there's no you know effect to the you know neighboring neighboring or Downstream properties and um and and sumna was you know more than happy to cut the slab back and by happen stance I I you know I was visiting her house and there was a you know a rainfall event and I just looked out and there was a torrent that was you know passing by the side of our house roughly about 3 in in depth and uh you know that would be um very detrimental to the house and I stopped her from doing that and as of this day she's still willing to cut the SL back but as long as you know the city is willing to U you know mitigate the runoff from you know being incident on a property from entering a property so you can't walk on the land when it's raining and and like I say in off rainy season you can't even walk down there because there's so much water coming down I can't access a side of my property at all I'm I want to let make sure that you if you have more feel free to add it I can go ahead and open the 15 minutes no no no you don't have to use 15 minutes I just he said all that you know all that's kind of relevant uh you know basically um she's more than happy to cut the slab back and you know um the city made a point that uh that she she has 123 ft to build a pool so that pool would literally be like a very skinny pool that would be like 2T wide by you know I don't know 50 ft long I mean it's kind you know it wouldn't necessarily like you know fit the description of like a normal pool or it would be like a 10x10 pool you know which is well I've been willing to work with the city it just doesn't seem to be the other way around they want me to be able to put the pool and then cut the slap back which compromises the Integrity of my home yet they're not willing to for you know tell me what date by which they'll fix the drainage Problem by and the map will show you the the amount of water coming in did you say it's 4 yeah it's it's uh yeah the uh if you look at the uh the topography or the lay of the land uh roughly half of Glen Oaks that's like you know that runs north south uh yeah uh about th000 ft of Glenn Oaks and maybe th000 ft of Brentwood Drive are incident onto property her property pretty much sits on a sag so both these streets come down you know barrel down the driveway and and you know that's that's really what what the Crocs ofer you know problem is and I'm the only one actually affected as well my neighbors are not in the same boat both streets collide with the water flow straight onto my driveway yeah and and and you know and granting this variance would not move the gold post like you know off the LDC to where every resident in the city of Temple Terrace would say hey we want another additional you know thousand square ft because none of you know the problem is very unique to miss samna that her her house is the only house in that entire like you know know um I I I don't know I wouldn't call it a subdivision but on those two streets that uh you know um that affect her house so yeah and so far we've Abdul mentioned something he helped me write this um application it's not just the water that's coming from the road we accounted for that but then there's road coming off the golf course um and other people's property also which adds it accumulates into what's coming onto my driveway so well I've also had to put a barrier up outside my garage to make sure that my garage is no longer flooding as well because that's how much water they're dumping onto my property you know I did like back of the napkin calculations um and roughly there is about 20,000 Square ft of impervious area that's like you know incident to her property that would be the equivalent of you know lining up 20 pools around her house so that's that's the amount of water that she's getting and that's not including the green area from the golf course course you know the green area too once the ground gets saturated it creates like runoff so the green area plus the pavement um area she's she she's getting a lot of water she she she you know she deserves some consideration definitely so all right anything else you'd like to add and you will get another chance to speak so thank you okay thank you are there any question before you sit down are there any questions um from the board for the applicant I I have some questions I actually by The Format of this we're supposed to let you speak then ask the questions but I actually had this question the whole time I need some explanation if you wouldn't mind about what's the slab and what does it mean exactly the slab for the house like what is this I have I have a large driveway and I also did a driveway around the side um so the front driveway I don't want to cut I have four children the oldest is getting her driver's permit I think when she's 15 which is in the next couple of months so I want to keep that driveway so the only area that I have to cut it is down the side of the house that's what I'm happy to cut back but I cannot do that without compromising my foundation so basically I just understand correctly the argument is that this concrete slab on the ground is in some way stopping the water from coming to the house oh yeah because it go that's what I that's what I missed this whole time coming through like I want Clarity of this if you look if I tell you Malik had a good picture of but um if you if you look at this this boundary survey to black and white you'll see that is there any way we get that picture up again the the front of the house his can you go to the slide the presentation to come back up do no problem actually it is highlighted if you did get a color copy which I think you did is this is this blue line on the side your videos are also on the desktop okay just so you know can we mind if you play them yeah okay let me let me um jump here yeah if you hit escape the videos are on the desktop but the SL do you want the side or the that's good okay that's good so what we would cut back is the driveway to the side the slab to the side that's to the right that's what I would cut back but that's where the major well show the site plan sorry okay yeah that but what I should also tell you is that's what we would cut back to make it compliant however that's where most of the water's coming but it's not the only place the water's coming it's coming all along the driveway I I have one more question did this slab was this built did have anything to do with the water coming on the property which is why it was built or no no no this was a problem that was realized after we you know built the you know the slab but I might also like to add um a point here the bump out or the slab that missar is talking about um the road pretty much sits on a curve and it's very hard to like back the car out from the garage like right onto the road so the the bump out or the slab in the front of the house it helps her like you know make a te- I I got it I just wanted to clarify that if the if we were discussing the hardship the the driving that's actually not a hardship but the the the drainage stuff potentially could be but where I'm having an issue is that basically I've I've never heard of concrete itself being you know like a concrete slab being there to protect a house from runoff water that's this is the first time I've ever heard that so that's why I was wondering if it was built for that we can cut the slab back but the the underlying soils are extremely Sandy in this area so what that does is it starts like eroding and and and those some of those issues were addressed when the house was like renovated okay yeah the loss of soil and stuff like that they were they were taken care of so the more concrete we back it exposes more land gets closer and closer to the foundation yeah and then it will compromise the foundation all right I don't have any more questions okay great does any other yes please go ahead um so if you were to cut back that side M it would be in compliance yeah yes ma'am that confirm okay and then you said that the city is going to help with the drainage issues but you just don't know when I'm sorry let me hold a minute I think we've got an issue with the oh microphone it says it's on it says it's on yeah it's it's showing on do I need to put this in okay get okay thank you I'm so sorry please go ahead no you're um you said that the city is going to be putting in something to help with the drainage issues you just don't know when well when we had asked them they said they told me that someone else had had a similar problem and they were years away so when I said well when they said well it could be you know at least 2 years so they said you could wait to have the pool until then but I don't see why I should have to wait 2 years when they're the ones illegally dumping water on my property and then the offset is that we'll do the trench at the back so we at least have that solution still in place is there anything and Malik this may be a question for you um is is there anything that we can get confirmation of the city that they're actually going to be doing that work even though we may not have a timeline established I would defer that even further back sorry I just know your name so I'm G to keep saying it no time well I guess if the applicant wants to finish first and then I can yes please come on up um Brian McCarthy city engineer um so I can kind of at least show you what the city is I just wasn't sure if you wanted to continue discussing with the applicant before I answer your question my questions depend on your answer so well well let me let me tell you what let me do this does anybody did anybody else have any questions for the applicant at this time I may after I see hear his no we'll bring and we'll be back okay so I just okay please go ahead sir so this is just kind of where we are in terms of the city Side um so what you see here are Contours we went and surveyed back in 2017 I believe for a water main project um in the neighborhood so we kind of use this as our Baseline and so the 319 Brentwood Drive is the driveway that's to this South and to the left of the screen I guess to the bottom to the left where you see the 5725 and the 5750 uh red Contours MH so that just kind of gives you where the existing driveway was at the time um judging from the Contour you can see with the red lines um everything off of Glen Oaks is the road to the North and then Brentwood is the road moving from left to right um everything does go towards the applicant's house um look at the driveway specifically you can see as if it appears as if there might be a hump with the 5725 and the 575 it appears as if it's going up you can also see a small 5725 as well to the to the right of the driveway um and then there's a 57 57 this is just kind of give you an idea of what we got from our survey um six or seven years ago looking at Google Earth um this was a photo off of Google Maps from 2013 I believe this is just what the existing house and the driveway looked like at the time um this is kind of a closeup again using Google Maps from 2013 the driveway is to the left you kind of see a uh what we call like a stain line with the leaves that are kind of an indication as if water was ponding there as if there was a hump at some some point in the past all and this is just again another Google Map shot of the driveway with the assumed stain line with the leaves so this is the uh part of the permit application for the driveway um so there's a lot of numbers here and I'll try to pick out the ones that at least are um won't say relevant but are elevation related um so you can kind of see the 5723 there at the middle of the driveway um that's kind of where the driveway meets the road and if you follow that curve line that's kind of moving from left to right of the screen you see a 5756 to the left you see the 5723 and then you see a 5720 and again that's the assumption that the water is all draining from the left side of the road all the way down to the right side and looking at the driveway as you're moving towards the house you can see a 5765 and a 5757 um again kind of showing us what appears to to be a high point in the driveway uh this was just a field shot of the driveway when we went out uh back in December um it from our won't say point of view but from what we could tell it it it appears as the driveway has been lowered and this is just from the applicant's house looking towards the road um where again it appears as if the driveway is now sloping from the roadway towards the house so what we've asked um the applicant for is just an updated post instruction survey before we decide what our next steps are going to be okay question yes please go ahead um can I ask you sorry I have a question um you said you asked for the survey but I mean I I guess you can't give an official answer but would if if the survey shows that the elevations are still off pretty consistently would the city be willing to help with the drainage issues he having I know that's a tough question to ask answer and then until we have a chance to review what their post construction survey would look like um we're not prepared to provide a recommendation in terms of what we would do okay as as a rebutted uh uh Mr McCarthy's you know comments um you know we're when there's an elevation difference of almost like four feet that's like you know barreling down um Glenn Oaks and also Brentwood um you know we're we're we're beginning to split hair in terms of you know that we might be off like you know quarter inch so quarter inch is not going to like Offset you know 4T of fall in the street and you know the deposition of leaves on the driveway it shows that this is a historical problem that the city has not addressed um do leaves get deposited you know when runoff you know obviously is you know entering the driver way and making its way back and so so that's that's not a you know basically those leaves or the driveway the the driveway geometry that existed would not deflect you know runoff from you know heading due south and the back of the house we don't even know what time frame those pictures were taken in was it rainy season was it not the way Abel explained it to me with the amount of runoff coming in let's say there's a quarter inch difference let's just say that's the case even if that got remediated it's still like taking a bucket of water out of the ocean the 4T excess well from both streets is still coming in it's not going to remediate the problem keep going you got the floor so please go ahead continue on um would you be willing to submit the survey to the city to get confirmation from them that they are willing to help and delay your variance request until that time and then get a variance request with a condition that you can build the pool but once the pool once the repairs are made by the city you have to cut off that piece on the side yeah I'd be happy to do that and then the question is then do we still build this well in the meantime or not I mean we can mitigate for it I mean it's you know that'll alleviate any of the cities or you know concerns we're just going to capture all the excess runoff that's generated from the pool um and you know we'll we'll we'll store it on our site if I can interrupt for a moment I think we're like devoting a lot of time to some that's sort of an extra piece of this but we need to focus back on hardship here and also what is a reasonable use of the property there's not been any testimony with regard to why there needs to be a pool this large because application of our law does not prevent this person from having a swimming pool that's at least 12 by 10 which many people have is a normal pool so the question and if you do Grant a variance you have to remember it needs to be the minimum variance necessary to afford this person a pool and then you go back to they're not being denied a pool because they can have one here so the issue is why does it have to be 40t by 22 ft well that includes concrete I'm sorry when when a pool is already able to be built on this particular piece of property and then you have to look at whether this is a self-created hardship by putting in all of this concrete in the first place and I believe the answer too was we didn't put the concrete in in order to protect the foundation it just happens to be there and now the the issue is well if we take it out there's too much water on the side of my house yeah so so there there are other issues having to deal with hardship and with variance before you start talking about building sailes and when's the city going to fix you know deal with a drainage problem which this isn't the only drainage problem in the whole entire city there are other neighborhoods other people and other communities that are also dealing with water at this you know water runoff or excess rain due to global warming I don't know but we seem to be getting a little far a field here with with the city taking a responsibility for this especially when there's also been testimony and you can tell from the picture the driveway itself is is lower than the road and even lower than their than their yard I don't think the road you'll have your turn hang on everybody well I will yeah I was going to say I'll be go back I promise I will give you a chance to respond to everything so so you know my job is to to point out these particular facts and we have to focus in on what are the rules applicable to the law of variance so okay see the the house was primarily built during the dry season um and you know we've not had last year was an exceptionally um you know dry um period and we didn't really like you know uh the rubber never hit the road so to speak you know we didn't uh see that you know the rainfall like we saw you know in the recent past so there's no way to tell you know that the driveway you know protected the house it actually does it protects the foundation so so um I don't see I don't see you know uh the point that the attorney is making um that somehow we're trying to like you know have the cake and eat it you know this house is an existing house it didn't you know come off a fresh slate you know it was like it kind of grew organically it's a 1960s house the city should be happy they should commend Miss Khan to like you know turn a piece of junk into something that's worthwhile that you know presents the city in a you know favorable light and uh you know I don't and I you know and there's not going to be any adverse impact to anybody in the city from what she's proposing to do so um and yeah go ahead hang on second just let's u i if you don't mind you mind I go ask one thing real quick the what I want to make sure that it when you're talking that everybody understands is the board the only thing that we can grant a gr variance for is if there's a hardship due to the land not because of the city or or or anything else that's what we have to look at under the uh land use I mean a pool is permitted but it's not guaranteed so there is no right there's no reason that that you have to put a pool in I mean it's for a single family dwelling there's a single family dwelling on the property um I understand the desire to want to expand you know and put a pool in which you can without the variance as you noted it was noted around 10 x 12 but um the issue is is that you're saying I mean I understand everything you're saying but all of this has to do with drainage it has to do with working with the city it doesn't have to do with the hardship the land's presenting that prevents you from doing something that you're entitled to do with the property and that's what I that's what we've got to get to and that's what we've got to dig into what is that when you say 10 by 12 that's the space that's left there has to be like 5 ft away from the edge of the house so 5T Cuts in there needs to be a border at the back of the pool there needs to be sides for people to walk around what's left of 123 ft if we put all of that in the pool's what 3x3 foot I mean in all fairness it's not giving me scope to put in a pool at all and like we said sir like right from the get-go we're more than happy to take the laab up but as an afterthought you know it it is where the Overland flow is getting conveyed to the back of the property and downstream have a question pleas so this is a very specific question it's short is there if you you took the slab out is there any possible way you could stop the water from punishing the house without the slab no why but why why is there no no other remedy on earth like any be any sort of anything you could do to to help the to basically strengthen the foundation along that side of it other than this large concrete driveway I mean there has to be different things that could be done right let's say there is I mean I'm going to let him answer that but then I incur all of the cost for a situation that I have not created the water's being dumped on my land by the city's you know inadequate drainage system the Earth is draining it not necessarily the city but well the the the layout of the road well she has a power line uh that runs under the driveway so she has utilities uh potential you know gas line conflicts so if if if I may it I I I'm in agreement with the attorney here we we need to uh uh if you will Zero back in regarding whether or not there is there is a hardship that's being created first and foremost uh and I think that's the is that's the essence of the issue here we need to as as a board determine whether or not a hardship exists and whether or not you are are making a uh a definitive case to identify whether one exists as a board that's what we need to well I want to present to the board and and and believe me I understand I understand what you're articulating uh your your perspective whatnot but as a board we need to make sure we need to say is does a a hardship exist yes or no has to ask itself water that's coming on the S or well hang hang on let let please don't everybody talk at go ahead and that's from my from my vantage point that's what we need we need to determine does a hardship exists and if so yes or no and whether or not we need to move uh to the formative or to the negative regarding the approval of a said of variance well well the board has to ask itself a qu the question is like 4 Ines of water that's traversing on the side of the house is that a hardship or is that a benefit to Mass SM now and if you think that's not a hardship um I'm not I'm not I'm not saying that's the question you really need to ask yourselves and mik can you play that video please if you hit escape on the hit escape and then the videos are on well I guess U minimize the presentation okay I I would say that there we're talking about two different issues here the videos are right there next uh below the presentation or next to it those are your four videos I want to see the video I I want to see what it says and this this was not rainy season that's over that piece of slab yeah I cannot walk I cannot do anything the drain it's all the debris blocking the drains that I spent money putting in I have to keep having them cleared out picks up debris from all the roads and it dumps it all into my property are you you no you good I just want to make sure you were finished okay uh please go ahead I think one thing to note here is I see from the video this could be a hardship on your land it could be but I think the city has to help determine that so we do not have to vote on this issue tonight that's just one thing I want to point out I think he said it during the beginning and if you were to submit something in the city and the city were to say yes there's obviously a drainage is and it's because of XYZ you know you could come back and we and I'm say I'm not saying we would approve it but I'm saying you could repurpose this variant and we could add conditions on it where once the repairs are made you would have to remove that so I'm not telling you that's the answer but I'm telling you those are options available to you oh we were like ready and able to meet that you know I think there I think the proof you know that there is a true hardship with the land is going to be with the city right but what more is needed I mean I'm also suffering a financial hardship I know that's not your concern but I've paid the deposit for the pool pool prices have gone up and now I'm going to be out of pocket the longer we leave this the more out of pocket I become and it still it still goes back to even if there's a quarter or half an inch variance on that driveway I cannot that water that volume of water is still going to be there no matter if we raise that driveway half an inch or not and that that that's a static problem no and I I I get that and that part's tough because we can't really vote on that piece no I understand so my question then becomes so what if we get the and I I don't mean that flippantly but I mean so what if we get the new survey it doesn't change the situation at all even if it's raised another half inch it doesn't change anything even if it build it up two inches it's not going to change much well and and I understand that but I and I and I'm not going to put words in your mouth but I think what she's trying to emphasize is is that if we bring this to a vote right now based off of the information that we have then that's final you can't reapply you'd have to reapply I believe it's 6 months is that correct at least 6 months before you could reapply again um many other things it looks like there's an open item uh from the city with the from the engineering department that they still need to do some work um I think what we're not it is your choice if you want us to vote we will vote I want to make that very clear but I think what the suggestion was is that maybe take you know another month ask for an continuance talk to the city City see if we can get some more thing what is the status of this uh elevation the they waiting on there's this report uh the post construction survey what's the status on that I didn't pay for another survey because that puts me out of pocket again for a situation where the the the drainage specialist for the D his the head drainage engineer at the do even if we raise it half an inch it's not going to remediate the flow problem so what's the point in backing and for with engineering and I keep going out of pocket for a problem that's not going to be remediated well the problem the the issue is is that this is a pool that is not I mean you already are making use of the land as it's designed as it zoned uh you have a single family house on it while you're entitled to while you're entitled to a pool we can't the board doesn't have the authority to Grant a variance for a pool because a pool is not a hardship the hardship of the land would be is if you couldn't build a house to the minimum specifications or if it couldn't sit on the lot a certain way because the way the lot was designed some of the things but a pool is not something that is considered necessary as part of the house you have everything that the land has already that the uh zoning has allowed it to do I won't disagree that you have a very valid argument but what I'm saying is I don't think this board is going to be able to do what you want because it's outside of what our Authority is to approve a variance for so what I was offering is is if you want to go I know you don't want the delay and I completely understand that well and the money for uh you know and new elevation survey when we know regardless of the difference we find it's not going to it's not going to change the impact on my property like we we all agree that there's a problem with the drainage on my property we all agree that I I'm still like I appreciate your solution that can we you know um once once it's remediated by the city I will have to cut back that slab I've been offering that from day one and in the meantime we have the swell as the offset I can't offer more than that the elevation apart from costing me more money the elevation survey is not going to remediate the issue going back to his words which distinctly put it is like taking a bucket of water out of the ocean that we're back to that same scenario can I ask you a question yes why can't you make this pool smaller and not and not ask for as big of a variance as you're asking for well okay so if we Baseline for what I ask or versus what they're saying 123 ft what's the compromise in between because I still need the concrete land outside we still papers yes the decking that's the word and and there's a big concrete slab behind the house too so it's not just the one running down the side youve got a great big that's under the roof that's already under a roof so she'll have to cut the roof and the slab okay did you add that on yourself yes okay so you covered more of the ground Yourself by adding on that concrete out the back yes all right so that adds to your self-created hardship because once once you finally have covered so much of that lot with something you have reduced your own available space for a pool I understand rather very rather than I'm willing to cut it back I'm willing to cut it back but I cannot cut it back because of the water draining onto my property I have said from day one I will happily cut it back when it's not going to compromise the foundation and integrity of my home right that doesn't make sense to cut like a slab that's under a roof okay when she can cut it by the side that was the answer to that question thank you so now you don't want a 12x 10t pole any possibility that you'd be satisfied with a 30X 20t Pole or a 25x 15t pole the there a 40 a 40 foot 8 in by 22 and a2t pool is a pretty big pool but that's not the pool though is it let's be fact that includes the decking that's not actually the pool well I I can't tell from this tiny little drawing how big the decking is I can't read any of these dimensions on here okay then I I would if I'd have known I'd have made a larger copy but I did and it's not just a pool it looks like you got a spa added into that there's a hot tub and so you're asking for a lot more than a regular average pool okay you say that and I do understand what you're saying however to count the counter measure to all of this is cutting the slab to the side of the house and that's something I'm unable to do because of a hardship that's been forced upon me but you are able to reduce what you're asking for I can but my question is I'm not saying that I won't but the question comes back to why should I because I'm having all of this water illegally dumped on my property you is because you're just not entitled to a pool but I am entitled to not have the water excuse me just one second I'm sorry U no I think your microphone was not on I think that's what they were uh flagging me for so so so you know equal she'll she'll cut an equal or an equivalent area off like you know the slab to off said the pool she doesn't have a problem with that I've just I've been trying to say something for a while it sounds to me like the solution is pick the pool or pick the slab we kind of just are going to have to pick one of the two I don't think that we're going to be able to get through this I'm hearing the attitude of the board I haven't decided how I would vote yet but the attitude of the board is if you want the pool you have to get rid of the slab I don't know what the solution is to the drainage problem I get it but that's what it sounds like to me that we don't need a variance if we can cut the slab back that that's the simple answer basically I canot cut the slab that's the whole point and that's why we're here because I cannot cut I would I he stopped me from cutting the slab then it's a smaller pool or the slab like it's just it's going to be one of the two is what it sounds like to me about how that's Pro the vote's probably going to go if we vote today you know the the other question I have is this okay if you were to get this pool yes how does that address the unfortunate issue that you have regarding still has to get addressed the runoff has to get addressed how does how does getting this pool if it's granted say we Grant you the Vance for this pool how does that mitigate or address the issue of the water pooling where it is right now how how does the implementation or building I I get that we have to wait in good faith I I get that but that is that's one of the things we would have to consider if we were to Grant this and said you go ahead and get get this pool this the exist the the situation will still exist we we will have a swell on the back though this that's what that extra one single sheet of paper was that we will build a sale to offset the size of the pool right right but it still will not it it it won't mitigate for yeah okay um one second did you have something did you I just want one quick question so this will you're willing you would be paying for to get that in turn and then I just want one clarification if the city and he may need to answer this question I'm sorry um this may be a question for you um if the city were to determine that there is an issue here and that you were going to put the work in here that would is the only way to mitigate the issue is what you're saying correct yeah because I can't risk my Foundation issues when I renovated the home there were a few spots where because of the way the soil is and the excess rain I had to remediate when I bought the house actually um I found out later that the garage does that were on the old garage they had water damage on so clearly the problem had always existed I just didn't realize at the time what I was looking at it's only in hindsight when we saw the excess water coming in that was put two and two together and the only way the city can make that determination is by them submitting this survey and you doing the research you need to do correct that would be our first step yes and how long would that process take you average um I'd say right now with all the concerns of we addressing anywhere between after we get the survey we'll probably do some type of initial review just to get us whether or not this needs to be pushed further faster or slow it down um kind of hesitant to give you a time frame until we get a chance to see the survey plus or minus a year can you answer that um in terms of our review it' be less than a year in terms of the construction it would have to follow to the City Council budget at that yeah not the construction just okay thank you Mr Hall I think you had something you wanted to add yes can we go back to uh the videos I think it's this one oh I didn't know how to cut it off I just wanted to pause the well either way hey you guys see this driveway here why does this side of the driveway why is it unavailable to be reduced that the bump out that's that's to like really make a three-point turn rather than back the car out into the you know into the street you're telling me all that is necessary to conduct that maneuver I also have four children who will be about to first please please so we understand that you have four children and that this driveway is very important for their growth for them them to be able to drive their vehicles uh that is understood but in terms of the options available there's a slab on the side that can't be cut because of the the structural Integrity of the home that's also understood um the slab on the rear I guess that's also part of the structural Integrity of the home or because there's Roofing that's not available as well the last available piece is that section of the driveway that is the last available piece unless you want to cut out a portion of your house so when we talk about lot coverage which to inform you guys lock coverage is more than just um drainage concern in City Temple Terrace lock coverage is not specifically referen to drainage there there aspects of it that are talking about impervious material or impermeability but lock coverage does not equate to drainage for the city of Temple terce for our jurisdiction for our Land Development code so do Abdul is right what he's saying him being the expert drainage engineer that does not apply to the variance because it's for a lot coverage the drainage concern does not apply to this variance or may not may not even justify a hardship because is a variance for a lot coverage that's like saying if I as someone who sees a lot of the permits in our jurisdiction I've denied sheds because of lot coverage even though they said they be raised why because end of the day if you have a raise structure that allows drainage into the ground we still count it as lot coverage to add to that just a note name off a couple findings of facts finding of fact F any variance granted shall be the minimum variance which makes possible the reasonable use of of land buildings or property my comment in response to that staff's comment in response to that the installation of the pool at the lot coverage requested is not necessary to make reasonable use of the property and the applicant can enjoy the home without the need for a variance the chairman has referenced that in terms of you have reasonable use of your home the applicant could redesign the site plan to reduce the proposed lot coverage that has been stated by our City attorney and some of the board as well G the special conditions and circumstances do not result from the actions of the applicant the special conditions and circumstances do result from the actions of the applicant the applicant is not responsible for the location of the home however there are options that the applicant is able to consider improvements made by the applicant did not Reserve lock did not Reserve sufficient space for the pool that was explained to us when she said at one point she wanted the pool and said you know what I don't want it anymore and expanded the driveway now here we are again where the pool was desired but what happened the driveway was expanded to an amount that no longer accommodates for the proposed pool the last comment I want to make in terms of finding a fact I know you guys have the document but in terms of one I want to make clear I which is one I've been reiterating part of my power presentation allowing the variance will not result in substantial Justice being done and there is no hardship that will be suffered due to denial of the variance the applicant can have a pull of up to 123 ft without the need for variance as has been stated several times in this meeting a pool is not a right it is a privilege for our zoning districts there under the the the codes for the zoning district there is no section no regulation no condition that says you are owed a pool so I just want to make it clear that of course a variance is not necessarily about what is by right but in this case this variance is specifically about lot coverage which does not equal drainage and water mitigation it's it's it's it's it's simply do you have a structure covering your property sheds driveways homes pools any questions any questions for Mr h on the board okay thank you um we have additional questions for the applicant from the board I have one more question is that a is that a concrete driveway that leads up to your front door it's a path it's what like a walking path is that calculated into the it is it's 130 ft look I'm willing to cut back I am but within reason because I do believe the hardships created by the city and you know Mr madic U talked about the bump out the little parking area to the left of the driveway and that's exactly where the water you know funnels and turns around so you know cutting that out would pose some additional dangers to the house and the and I heard him say that the Land Development code um uh is not does not correlate with um water or drainage it does it has a direct bearing on on drainage I I used to work as a senior engineer at the southwest Florida Water Management District for 20 years and lot coverage was you know kept at a certain like you know uh whatever percentage to like allow for recharge and to allow like you know um you know excess runoff like off the property and we've said we're going to mitigate for that excess runoff by you know creating an exfiltration trench in the back of the house I I I think my difficulty is is there just seems to be too many options to do this that do not require granting a variance and I would also go back to it I mean it it is a large pool uh you know we also have to look at what is the minimum variance we can't just grant a variance for whatever we have to Grant the minimum variance and that's all we can do to overcome the hardship the lady to my left um was proposing we do it in 123 I mean what would the board like you know be happy with well I I could say my recommendation would be get rid of some concrete and then skip the variant that's really I want you to have the pool but I think all that concrete I I just don't a place to do a three-point turn we don't need that but you need less concrete or a pool it's just going to be one to two that's kind of how I see it that I want you to have the pool but just means get rid of some concrete even if we have the offset the offset balances it all out we even I know but you just kind of you got pick and choose which one matters more and the I guess basically the drainage I mean if this is just how I I personally feel that there's a lot of extra concrete there I'm not used to hearing that the concrete itself saves the structure from water runoff a driveway is protecting us for the water I've never even heard that before in my life unfortunately this is the first time I've got it I could be ignorant to this but I've never heard that before we can't fight with the head of drainage at the DOT I know but s okay I mean it's it's a fact like I I learned from him too I was in the same position as you cuz I was ready to cut it back there and then and he was like no you cannot well but I have to go back I think the problem is is that you know when you did put the additional Concrete in that was the choice I mean that filled up the space and I realize what you're saying about the side of the house but you and and and believe me I I'm every I'd like to give everybody that comes in here what they want I truly would I mean nobody likes to sit up here and do this but believe me but looking at what the rules say looking at what we have the ability to do and what the law we have to follow it there's it's very difficult to find something and that's that's what I'm struggling for that's why I'm saying if we want to if you want to take some more time another month and go back you can and see if we can come up with something that meets more of a minimum variant or you know see if there's some other way we can we can certainly grant that but right now what is that number what will the board support we can't give you a number all I can say is the minimum but that's going to be I don't want to come back every month and you don't want to see me every month well no no but but I'm what I'm trying to offer you I what I'm saying is is and I think uh you know you said that very clearly you can hear from the questions we're asking you know what where this is headed and I just don't want to get I want to give you the opportunity to try to get what you want I will vote if you want but it's I'm coming back okay every month what you have to help me with hang on one second okay go ahead did you want to finish your statement just help me with a number what what's that number I would say you buy some land get rid of some get rid of some of the concrete and you buy yourself more land I don't know no you can get rid of I I around hang on I'm I'm going to let me let's hang on we can I we we I mean we'll do everything we can to help but you're going to have to make some decisions and I wanted to give you the too but I was just going to say I think we can't give you a number that's not our job right we can't give you a number but what I can say is like that like I said that concrete path you have leading to your front door if you're going to remove that and you're showing that you are you know reducing the concrete on your land and you may need to reduce the size of your pool I'm a pool I have a pool I recognize the beauty of having a very large pool but I also recognize that it is what it is when it comes to how much of your land you're covering if you want to keep every aspect of the driveway and all the rest of the concrete it the pool's going to have to go down in size so I hear everything you're saying I just have one question why is the swell not acceptable the swell the offset why is that not acceptable because it's going to create recharge it's going to like you know Dall actually said it was acceptable the reason was because the pool itself isn't like a right that's kind of why like it's not like by not allowing the pool doesn't create basically it's like not a fundamental right breach to give you the pool that's our the issue here is that you have the land used for the house itself so it's not a regulatory taking by the um by I remember this in law school very well doing something very similar to this and also through these problems but it it just isn't a regulatory taking by not letting you have the pool basically and you have 123 ft for it but I really think though basically I mean I keep saying this like a broken record you have a lot of extra concrete and I want you to have the pool but you have the room if you don't have so much concrete that's basically it that's kind of really the solution here is picking between the two but we're still saying a variance will be acceptable just not this much potentially well I think basically the hint is cu we don't want to say what the amount is but by reducing the pool size maybe a little bit and reducing the concrete a little bit then you can have a pool that you can agree with a little bit less concrete so like I actually if you could get rid of a lot of concrete you could build the you want probably without having to get a variance at all and I can't without the house I know but it's but it's still the which one you got to pick though yeah so so let me I yeah part of the reason we can't give you a number because there's a few things that have to happen number one we have to Grant the minimum variance well I don't know what you're intending to do we would need to see what you're doing and see what remains we also need to have the city have the opportunity to respond to it as well you know I think you know you can look and see where we are that you know how much concrete would have to go to build the pool without even having to come back and get the variants you know if they you know there there there seem to be things here but there's they're not things that we can say yes to uh but if you can come back with something and say Hey you know this is the absolute most we can do uh and all of the other stuff you're doing then we can certainly take a look at it um but I'm I'm kind of with everybody else I think you can do this without even having to come back it's just going to be a matter of some choices but if you want to try and see where you get and then come back and say hey we've reworked this we've talked to the city you know what all the cases may be then we will certainly listen to all the evidence being presented again the city is saying no to any variance where does that leave me we didn't actually ever not you guys these guys well we're the ones who vote on the variance if we're going to accept it or not and we didn't vote yet technically but I you've heard the attitude of the board is basically how I my hunch is basically unless presented a probably a lot more about I I'd say my issue is mostly just there's a lot of concrete around your house I've never seen that much concrete around a house in Temple Terrace before except for yours and because of that I've never heard the argument before the concrete itself was put there with something to do with the stopping the drainage I it's and we've also so my thing is I'm like if you want the pool I my the reaction is I don't know if we have if this is an actual hardship or not but if it is it's cure if it's if it's not a a hardship the the way to get around is get rid of some concrete I mean you whenever I heard you say what's the point of the extra Block in the front you heard the three-point turn well we don't need that's if which one's going to be the three-point turn of the swimming pool I actually got denied for a circular Drive which is what I wanted and that would have made everything a lot easier then we wouldn't have had so much La in the first place well I'm I I'm going to say I think I think um I will board in just a moment if they got any more questions but I I think everybody's made their points um I think everybody's really I think we're all really clear on that um you know where we've got to go I I don't know that I can give you any more answers than we've already given you right now um but what I soorry what I am going to do let me ask this question does the board have any other questions that we need to ask at this point and I mean questions as opposed to comments no all right can I have a closing comment I am going that's where I'm getting to in just a moment um okay then at this point I'm going to in light of all the comments have been anything else you have five minutes for any rebuttal you would like to do uh we'll go ahead and start that now so that's back over to you sir yeah the um you know I appreciate the city vigorously defend defending their um Land Development code but the other municipalities around Hillsboro County for single family residence it doesn't have like you know lot coverage you can pretty much like maximize you can you know uh corner to corner you can put in building so so um you know I just want to point out that differential and the other thing is with the city of Tampa if you go over the 50% or 55% or whatever it is that is mandated in the law in the um code you can offset it by creating like storage on the site so and we've offered those options thank you quick question do I have to keep painful the barrance application every month then no no I keep me on no we're continuing it which we we'll have to vote on that but if it's continued so so the the applicant has the option of asking for you to vote on it tonight or asking for a continuance um what she would have to pay for if she asks for a continuance is the legal ad okay okay thank you all right thank you for your time all of you and and I will say she also has the option of withdrawing her requests so there were three options three options okay three so uh the one thing I will say on that what you have and I will tell you this from the board is that you know what the points that you're making I completely understand you're in the right room but you've got the wrong people up here that that need the city commission is the one that needs to do that we actually even asked them as a board to go back and review the rules and regulations for pools and everything else but that's not something we can do here all we can do with this board is deal with the variance in the land um I completely understand everything you're saying but that's we can't change that that that the rules have the ordinances have to change the zoning has to change I would encourage anybody who wants that to come and talk to your elected officials and and work on that but that's not what we can do but what I can't now and I think uh you know the City attorney just brought it up I can give you three choices at this point we can go ahead and vote which we will if you want you can ask for okay you can ask for a continuance or you can withdraw the application I heard you we'll do the continuance okay do you like to ask for a continuance may I have a continu okay uh do I have a motion on the continuance so moves I I third second okay well I think we know what this all in favor say I I any opposed right uh when is going to be the next date now is that so that is going to be April 25th will be the next statement if that is okay with is is that enough time is that date available to you and is that enough time that well it's available I'm going to ask I'm away from the 1st to the 17th of April um I'll be around yeah we'll take care we also need to make sure that we're going to have a quorum um so we need to make are any of you unavailable that day so at least four people you're unavailable okay so as of right now um I have two other people so I don't know that I have a quum until I speak to them because as of right now I don't have a quorum for that date okay so I would have to speak to the other two people um before I know whether or not we are able to do it on the 25th are we all available are you available yes yep I'm not available she's not AV she's not available and it's four on this one you are available but I still have I still have to find one more I'll do it so um so we can go ahead can we tentatively say April 25th so we can do that tentatively if not it would be May 25th is that correct yes I will send an email out on Monday to see if I can get anybody else for a definite for that date and if not then we'll move it to may wait minute how can that I was going to say how can 25th can't be right that didn't that math does we can't have April 25th 25th or May 23rd May 23rd okay that's this is 25th okay 23rd that makes more sense I'm just going to ask if we could do it in the April because my pool company's kind of P we we are willing but as she was talking about we have there's five board members one is going to be absent we will have to make sure the other alternate is available we don't have that information right now that's why I said we're going to tentatively schedule it for April but if we don't have a quorum then it doesn't make sense to bring everybody in here and all I have to do is say we don't have a quum and we go home so uh we're going to try for that but we've got to verify that we've got enough board members okay thank you okay any other questions for us all just one okay so uh with that uh believe we have the continuance so we will move on thank you very much thank you sir appreciate it all right is all right is there any new business or is there any matter that the board would like to raise all right is the any old business okay the next meeting of the board of adjustments is tentatively scheduled for April 25th 2024 at 6: p.m. if there's no other business to be brought before the board the chair will entertain a motion to adjourn motion to adjourn I have a second second all in favor say I I any opposed all right the Temple Terrace Board of adjustment meeting for March 28 2024 is adjourned and thank you for everybody that [Music] [Music] [Music] participated [Music] [Music] [Music]