[Music] [Music] hey hey hey [Music] [Music] hey hey y two seconds seconds do okay good evening ladies and gentlemen I'd like to call the July 16th council meeting to order uh the council has been in an executive session on the second floor to discuss labor negotiations we will now conclude that meeting and roll right into the city council meeting so good to see everybody um like to please remind everybody to silence your cell phones if you haven't done so already and please stand and join me in invocation and the pledge Lord we come before you tonight in prayer for our country remind us that the freedoms that we enjoy in this country come at a cost and also remind us that part of our system of government involves disagreement passion emotion and energy and different Visions for our society but also help us to remember that we're a civilized people and that there's no room for personal attacks criticism violence uh attempted murder um and that we are civilized please remind us to engage in government and open and to debate argue uh back and forth and in values that we envision but that there's no place for personal attacks we ask your blessings on our meeting tonight give us guidance and wisdom we pray for all those in our city who are sick or suffering amen amen iedge alleg to the flag of the United States of America stand one nation under God indivisible with liy and justice for all all righty thank you it's good to see everybody Welcome gentlemen so for those of you visiting with us I I think probably all of you here tonight know about this tradition but if not we start every one of our meetings with a fun or interesting fact concerning our city its history or uh the region that we live in uh we rotate that Duty and tonight that Duty falls on council member schisler who I think has something interesting in store for us thank you very much Mr Mayor yes um I'm going to cheat a little bit this this time and and and and uh I'm going to invite Mr alak hassi up to the uh firefighter paramedic alak hassi up to the to the podium he is our de facto historian for the fire department and I've asked him to give a the first 50 years of Temple Terrace fire department uh a brief overview of the history uh it's getting harder and harder to come up with some of these things and we're going to you know it's it's it's nice when we have somebody that uh uh could offer uh firsthand you know not firsthand but at least detailed knowledge of it so welcome thank you thank you uh so it won't be the first 50 years I had to short it to the first 25 okay we'll go with that we have three hours so no we don't no we don't um so good evening everyone my name is Al Cassie firefighter paramedic here in Temple uh I'm honored to present the fun fact of tonight's council meeting so today we know and love our modernized fire department as an internationally accredited in iso1 fire department uh status that only 121 fire departments hold in the nation but how do we get here our journey began nearly a century ago and today I'll take you through the first 25 years so I think uh Miss Mooney has a presentation or a PowerPoint that we can reference for pictures somebody moved it on I can get to it right now okay that's all right so I came compared so U somebody deleted it that's all right I will send it to all of you so you can reference it thank you uh in 1926 the temple ter fire department was established with a modern budget laying the foundation for what would become a pillar of our community today the budget was about $200 so very different than what it looks like here today uh the following year 1928 EA Fischer was appointed the first fire chief of the Temple Terrace fire department he was an insurance agent and he was very involved with Sulfur Springs and pering their air Fire Department in the early 1920s uh through or those role was initially more consultative he set the stage for the Department's growth so by 1937 our fire department acquired its first fire engine which was a 1934 Ford fire truck that we got secondhand uh and this early apparatus was equipped with a 35 gallon water tank and a lawn mower fire pump that they actually used to have to start with the pool cor and that was actually uh built handb built by the volunteers at the time in 1942 basil Brook was appointed the fire chief he was a professional golfer and prominent Temple Terrace resident and under his leadership the department saw significant reorganization and growth in a Q&A done with Chief Brooks in 1943 they asked is the old fire engine capable of starting quick enough and getting to a fire in time to put it out his respon respon was yes the old fire engine is in practically as good a condition as it was when the city first got it and it starts as well as it did then and also travels just as fast 45 miles an hour in 1944 the volunteer fire department reformed nearing the end of World War II and it was after we got some new equipment and appointed key leaders such as George Joselyn Harry roller am shans and Bob Nels uh in 1946 Larry wardwell and his family moved to the city of Temple Terrace uh in July and then in 1947 uh he assumed the roles of city manager tax collector fire chief city clerk City Treasurer and City purchasing agent he's a man of many hats something I don't know if we could do today we could try though maybe uh in and then in 1949 I have a clip of one of our budgets uh and it was $ 89.98 $89.98 is what was in the fire department's budget in 1949 in fiscal year 50 they did increase it to $542 75 so that would that would equate to about $693 with inflation today is how big the fire departs budget was at the time and then in the early 1950s and throughout the 50s the department was marked with significant period of development the first headquarters was established at the intersection of Kingsway Drive and Sunningdale Avenue uh utilizing the former Temple Terrace Country Club maintenance garage the facility served as the training grounds for the volunteer firefighters and that building was later demolished in the 80s that's all I have that's the first 25 years that's interesting so when did Alec do you know when it became came from volunteer to professional firefighters so in the early 70s they did uh pay the first fire chief and then they paid the first three firefighters so later on they got more and more people involved were still mostly volunteered throughout the 70s and 80s 1972 I think is the year that we had paid firemen when did we phase out volunteers do you do you know cuz I remember I remember volunteer fire departments in the county yeah oh yeah so um that would have been I think for us sometime in the late 70s cuz we had like a reserve program which wasn't quite volunteer uh but yeah Luke's had a volunteer fire agency SE their mango up until like the early 2000s so it was sometime in the 80s was it after the shopping center fire that they went to went to fully paid cash and carry burn not cash and carry but the ver Andy huh Library no just before the library it's before the library burned down it was the the shopping center where the old publ used to be when that fire after that I remember they went to we're talking oh God 50 years ago I have to have you come back and do the second 50 years yes yes thank you sir thanks Al thank you very much Alex appreciate that thank you sir all right so first order of business is approval of the minutes from the July 2nd meeting has everybody had an opportunity to review the minutes so moved second Motion in a second vice mayor AEL any corrections to the minutes if not all those in favor signify with I I oppose no Nays minutes are adopted next are persons wishing to be heard on items not listed on the agenda or items on the consent agenda um for those of you who are may not be aware we do have forms in the back of the room if you wish to address the council at this point in the meeting I currently have two requests to speak the first one is from Mr John mccordi welcome Mr McCord welcome back good evening first of all thank you um mayor Ross for your benediction I think in light of recent events it's important for everyone to understand that everyone's voice needs to be listened to with respect and that even if an opinion differs than your own it's still doesn't mean it was well thought out and comes from a good place thank you Mr McCord I did neglect to tell you we do need your name and AD or city of residence at the beginning oh okay my name is John mcord uh 548 River Hills Drive very good thank you and I hope my comments follow that principle um I'd like to stop I I'm here to talk about the sober house we talked about last time I was here I'd like to start uh by responding to the lady who spoke right after me um she said that her daughter was an addict uh um and claimed that people living in these sober houses uh are not necessarily bad neighbors and that's 100% true and I pray for her daughter's recover and Redemption I however have had a totally different experience with family and addiction it involved violence restraining orders the Baker Act family divisions stolen money and heirlooms I respectfully submit that if a person is unable or not allowed to live in your home please don't ask them to live 10 ft from mine two things have since happened that I think validate my and my neighbor concerns first a reporter who heard my last statement called to interview me the article he wrote wound up as a featured article in the Hillsboro County section of the Tampa Bay Times it's always news when something happens to your neighbors that make you think wow this could happen to me second we were contacted by a candidate for Temple Terrace city council this candidate heard of us situation felt it was not right and promised action if there were elected I know this is a campaign promise but it's definitely worth serious consideration lastly there's an age-old tale it involves minority people and people in protected classes who own Prime real estate our Halfacre Lots sit 30 feet above the river therefore are not in a flood zone they are very desirable real estate gentrification always starts with actions and policies that drive down property values there is no way anyone can convince me that this Sober House will have a positive effect on our beautiful neighborhood and make our homes worth more Deputy City attorney Ernest Ernesto Mueller claims that in the Times article that these requests are in the minority I say to all the residents and voters of Temple Terrace that what is rare often becomes commonplace once a precedent has been set so I ask the government what's going on here what are you going to allow to happen in this Sober House what controls are you going to put in place so that my neighbors and I concerns will be a priority we were here long before them your actions going forward will affect all of us for a very long time thank you thank you I just got that in just perfect timing yes sir Mr lobe good evening sir good evening my name is Charles lo I live in Terrace Park and I want to bring up several subjects first of all I want to talk about the heart briefly about the hard board meeting I want people to know that the hard is much more solvent than it was however it's on about a 75% uh level to what it was uh before covid what I have been trying to do is to uh going through aside from getting them routes and things like that is to try to diversify their funding sources as a matter of fact the consultant I walked over to the hotel I walked her back to the hotel she said to me to keep on them but I just wonder how much I can keep on them going every you know for 3 minutes each at the time but uh you know I think maybe have some success maybe not but again that remains to be seen as time goes on they will be having some plans coming up over for the new year and over the course of time that you will be seeing about it as time comes that's number one uh number two I have an idea for the Centennial uh thing for specifically for May 3rd uh 2025 that I want to test on both uh both on you all and on on the public I was thinking about the idea of a time capsule uh you know so you could varry things maybe for 2125 that we have around here or if you're real optimistic maybe have for 2925 for the for the City St year if you want to be very optimistic about it back at home I do have something that I gave over to the library uh another copy of that I think would be very very nice for a time capsule and that is uh from the TBT back in October 2016 with had a picture of the whole universe from the Hubble telescope the galleries uh I mean the galaxies they look like little spots and and dots on it it has a great big picture of the whole universe and if anybody wondered back or 100 years in the future wondered when that occurred when the universe was first seen on one picture that was when it was back in the fall of 2016 and finally of course speaking of the library because I gave one copy to it of course obviously one of the reasons I want to come up here and mention is about the sale in about a week and a half starting Thursday July 25th to Saturday July 27th from 10 to 4: a.m. 10: to 4 10:00 a.m. to 4:00 P p.m. at the library if people want to get some books or DVDs or whatever they have sometimes you see long playing records and a few other things that they have nice it's going to be uh it's going to be Thursday uh I'm going to repeat it again Thursday at 10:00 a.m. July 25th at about slightly less than a week and a half away to Saturday Friday and Saturday July July 26 and July 27th over at the library and you might be able to find a real bargain and help them raise some money thank you and good evening thank you Mr L ladies we are I saw you picked up public comment forms are you here to address an item on the agenda or or an item not on the agenda okay well you're welcome and I'm going to call on you to come up if you unless it's a specific item that we're going to have a hearing on or something I think she just got the agenda oh you have the agenda you didn't pick up so you don't want to address the council one question sure well welcome just um we do ask for your name and city of residence at the beginning um my name is mik zra um um live right across the street over there Victoria Terrace and your name again yeah it's Nina no m i e k e you want my last name there's probably only one in Temple Terrace I was born here actually no I I moved here when I was in second grade at any rate moved away and came back um but I'm just kind of curious about the recycling program if there is like one main hub for recycling or if it's up to each because at the town houses we don't have you know curbside recycling like they do at residential um addresses so I was wondering if the city has like a recycling program that was on question we we do ma'am if you'll leave your contact information with the city clerk we will have a member of our staff contact you and and answer all your questions about that okay great we' be happy to okay thank you any other public comment on items not on the agenda okay very well next item is a request for continuance uh regarding a second public hearing and second reading of ordinance 1567 amending chapter 12 of the code to change the terms of board of adjustment members and I will open the public hearing and our Deputy City attorney Ernie Mueller is here to explain welcome Mr Mueller thank you um yeah we um if you recall we had first reading on this a few weeks ago and in that time we talked with the Planning Commission and it was decided in an abundance of caution since it's in chapter 12 that we should run it through the Planning Commission get their approval or or their finding that it's consistent with the comprehensive plan we're on their calendar for July 29th so we'd like to continue this to the first to the August 6th meeting okay are there members of the public that wish to comment on this item and I'm sorry May did you open up the uh public the public hearing I yes I did um Council questions comments I do council member Fernandez uh my only concern would be I thought we were working with a deadline here so does this still give us enough time for this to come back before us to get the you know the terms yes recertified um one of the things that um the present uh ordinance or city code does is it keeps uh the members in their uh positions until they a replacement is found or they're reappointed so we won't have too bad of a problem there I think we're going to I can't remember what exactly the date that they expire but uh either way we're going to be fine okay council member Chambers I have a question of you mayor I know you'd mentioned that you wanted to attend the next boa meeting which is the July 30th um you can still do that and explain the program just it's not voted on that correct okay that's my that's my intent yes all right thank you Council M schisler when we did this ordinance did we have to go before the Planning Commission for that um I don't know if we did or did not at that time when we redid it um and like I said we had a just a discussion with the Planning Commission this this time it's it's because it's located in chapter 12 which is Our Land Development code and we just decided this time and abundance of caution we would go ahead and put it through feels a little bizarre that we have to go to them for that understand okay yes it does yeah okay very good is there a motion to continue uh till August 6 the August 6th August 6th second motion a second discussion all those in favor say I I opposed no Nays continuance is granted thank you Mr Mueller thank you mayor thank you next item is a public second public hearing and second reading of ordinance 1566 adopting a resoning of folio number 0373 4- with an address of 100024 Davis Road and unknown address folio number 03753 1 -500 I will open the public hearing and ask anyone who intends to speak on this matter to please stand and be sworn in by the city clerk do you swear to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing about the truth help you guys I do thank you uh Mr Shon would you please poll the council for expart communication uh at this time if any council member has uh participated in or received any exart communication ation regarding this matter please State what that is now uh if you received anything in writing a copy of that needs to be provided to the clerk as soon as possible and uh any communication whether written or oral needs to be reported at this time um I'll start with uh council member Fernandez and please state if you have had such communication with whom that communication took place when it took place and what was the sum and sub of that communication I don't have any communication that hasn't already been included in our packet in previous meetings the same for me same for me same same thank you good thank you Mr Shon all right our city planner Miranda annah is here to explain good evening evening mayor council okay uh this is the second reading and second public hearing of rzp 2302 this is an area of the subject property which consists of two Parcels at the March 19th 2024 hearing the southern parcel was annexed into the City and a comprehensive plan amendment was approved from a Hillsboro County designation to the Temple Terrace R9 future land use District the subject property is approximately 6.7 acres and is located within the Temple Terrace uh utility service area the northern parcel is uh 2.4 acres and has a zoning of R7 Temple Terrace and the southern parcel is 4.18 acres and has a zoning of agricultural single family conventional acs1 Hillsboro County the applicant is requesting to change the zoning of the subject property to PD plan velopment for 28 single family detached homes these photos are looking north south and east on Davis Road from the subject property here's a snapshot of the zoning categories and properties in the surrounding area uh that are located within Temple Terrace um in the dark purple bluish uh color uh those are zoned PD so changing the zoning to PD for the subject property would be compatible to the grounding area here's a survey of the property submitted by the applicant the existing structures will be removed if this uh project is approved and I won't go into full detail about the original master plan um but this was the uh master plan that was presented at the March 5th hearing that contained 32 single family lots this is the new Master Plan submitted June 6 2024 the new Master Plan proposes 20 eight Lots 26 of them being at least 50t wide uh the general proposed lot size is 5,500 Square ft 50 by 110 the plan also includes removal of the park adding parking spaces around the mail kiosk and relocation of the lift station the midle also includes an updated letter from the traffic engineer um elevations and floor plans and new bulk standards here are the bulk standards versus the R7 District um as you know the PD standards are based off the closest zoning District however the purpose of a PD is to allow for a negotiation standard single family lots than SE less than 70 ft have to be proposed through the PD process uh the applicant is proposing deviations from law area and with uh the applicant is also requesting a deviation from front yard setbacks maximum building coverage and maximum lot coverage staff is in general support of the project but has objection to the maximum lot coverage uh the applicant originally proposed lot coverage of 60% with the caveat that polls do not count towards that lot coverage uh but at the last Council hearing on June 18th there was concerns about permitting without a maximum percentage and so the applicant proposed 69% staff can support a maximum lot coverage of 60% in its entirety over 60% for a single family detach is not at all supported by staff all single family zoning District dists in the city have a maximum lot coverage of 47.5% the Land Development code States accessory structures including pools and and deck shall not exceed the total lot coverage one of the most powerful tools to measure intensity of land uses is lot coverage U 60% is the maximum coverage for one of our multif family districts and 70% plus is usually allowed for commercial industrial and other non-residential uses and in my professional opinion I have not honored an applicant proposing as high as 69% for single family lot there are limits of development according to L use uh the applicant is also uh proposing the building Envelope as the building coverage and based all the elevation submitted last time the building footprint is smaller than the proposed building coverage at the last meeting the city the city Engineers um since the last meeting the city engineer submitted information on possible conditions relating to prvious materials and drainage which I will present momentarily at the last hearing the applicant proposed two models uh one at 2400 ft of living area and the other at 2900 and this one is the 2400 and I won't go in full detail like I did the last time but uh this is a 2400 and I'll move to the 2900 square foot and since that hearing since the last hearing the applicant is seeking not to be bound by those elevations and has propose a new condition which I'll read out loud each lot shall include a minimum of three architectural features features can include two uh separate materials stucco siding brick um store uh sorry my came out SM I'll read that again each lot shall include a minimum of three architectural features features can include two separate materials stucco siding brick stone dentals cornices trim divisions of Lights within Windows porches porticos dmal Oriental or decorative garage doors ornaments such as Medallion shutters and coach lights Etc and and so um I did rewrite I number five to allow slight uh flexibility from these elevations that you see on the screen um but they would have to appear substantially similar to those elevations um it's up to City Council on how to proceed elevations are required for every PD so you can keep staff's conditions uh in the ordinance or you can swap out condition number five with the applicants proposed condition if you uh continue with the applicants proposed uh condition then at time of Permitting um the elevations may change and what you see on the screen um may not be what is built for the project moving on to the suggested conditions um along with the elevations condition number one States 28 single family detach dwellings um did not specify one story or two story and the applicant has told me that they're now seeking maybe a one-story house so if you were to remove staff's conditions and implement the uh the applicant's proposed condition um then by this uh condition number one will allow for that proposed condition number two for permanent purposes staff added that if the 69% is approved for polls that poll in and pull uh safety barriers are included also uh there was a uh report from the city engineer and it appears that the applicants needed to detail with calculations and um it shows that there is a smaller poll option which indicates 69% is not needed for a pool and the applicants last sub midle 51% was proposed for building coverage and the detail in the city engineers report shows it a bit higher than that so the applicant will need to clarify condition 3 and four remain the same from the last hearing condition five is is staff's revised condition regarding the elevations condition six is the new condition um the applicant is Seeking a deviation for parking spots anything over uh four bedrooms requires five parking spaces so the applicant SE is seeking four spaces St has no concern with that condition number seven Remains the Same condition 8 through 12 also remain the same this slide is about possible additional conditions so um to add to the ordinance condition number five is on the screen that uh the top one is staff's condition and the bottom one is the applicants condition so um you can either keep staffs or swap out the applicants condition number 13 14 and 50 are from are taken from the engineering uh report that was shared with the applicant um if you have questions further questions regarding these conditions I would refer to the city engineer for those um but I will read those out loud uh the pros development must construct storm water infrastructure to capture any runoff from the western side of Davis Road and elmd down Place intersection infrastructure improvements can include ditches inlets pipes Curbing and Grading to ensure no storm water ponding when entering the proposed development and I think that was um in response to public comment from the last hearing and uh when staff went out uh to on the site proposed condition number 14 is regarding the perious materials um all residential driveways must meet perious materials as outlined in LDC section 12- 921 um in the city Engineers report um he did list pros and cons regarding previous uh materials for the driveways and so um if Council wants to um have the uh development uh require prvious materials uh this would be the condition uh we would add into the ordinance proposed condition number 15 the developer must create a private drainage easement between lock grading type A on the southern side of the proposed development and the adjacent Southern parcel or as approved by the engineering division it's from my understanding that it's to protect if if pools were allowed that um that it would protect storm water from going on to the adjacent Southern Property um the condition also says or as approved by the engineering division uh because lot grading type A may not be necessary depending on the existing conditions of the site um but it is there to allow some flexibility and last ly the Planning Commission um recommended approval of this project Community Development has an objection to the lot coverage exceeding 60% other departments in the DRC had no objections and staff recommend city council approved the second reading and second public hearing of an ordinance with the proposed conditions adopting rzp 2302 thank you Mr the city engineer going to add to this or I'm I'm just ask it I'm you any question okay are there members of the public who wish to comment on this item okay seeing none council member questions yes council member schisler um I've got a few uh when did it change from 32 to 28 or did I miss something along the way and the at the last um so in March it was the 32 and at the last meeting I'm forgetting the date a month ago too 32 was at 40t so the 28 goes to 50t okay fine all right um the other question I have is in in in item number thir uh uh condition 13 if you could go back to that uh yes that is uh the second to last slide and you may need the city engineer for that one because that's 13 14 and 15 is from his report before we get off this before we get off this slide who what is that curved property that goes to the West I believe we actually own that property okay the raway okay all right okay all right don't let me move it so if you can move it oh you can go to 13 one more how do we enforce that after the fact how do we how do we ensure that that that that gets met I don't I don't know if you you live live a tet terce but Sunday afternoon's rain was quite heavy and we had three inches of rain in like an hour in my in my neighborhood um how do we know that what is chosen um the ultimate infrastructure Improvement will be able to deal with that amount of runoff is there is there an equation that you're using or go look at the um sorry Brian McCarthy city engineer and um what the developers engineer will do is kind of add the intersection um as part of their Basin calculations for their pond so typically your your roadway is going to be crowned drainage should be graded to the left on one side or to the west and then to the east is on the right side So based upon Davis Road anything on the West Side they can incorporate that type of drainage through some type of Inlet or ditch that would then flow into their Pond just in front of that intersection okay so we're going to take the excess water off the Davis Road take it into the pond as well as all the other run off from the other from the other 28 properties from their own development yes okay now I remember this is before I got on Council there was a a discussion on the ability of the infrastructure to handle a certain amount of rainfall in a time like a 90 minute time frame that's that's the relationship I'm looking for how do we know that how how can we ensure that I don't want to come back in a year and say we're flooding out the place everybody's flooding out how how do we are we going to verify that this the calculations are we you are you going to go back and double check these things or or is it or is it we're going to rely upon the their engineer to handle that completely so they'll also need a um Water Management District permit they'll also be looking at the storm water Pond okay so there's another set of is there's another agency that I'll also be looking at okay that's cool all right good I'm good with that thank you um I did want to bring up one of the conditions um I think it was 14 um um all residential driveways must be perious materials as outlined in the LDC um in our technical memo it was more of a it was in the engineering division we have no objection to it being pervious materials or non-p perious materials it's up to council's discretion it is a allowable Drive material if if you would like to have that as a condition I don't know what you just said um that was my was my question 14 my question was on 14 so as part of our uh review the city code allows for purose materials however it's not a requirement to have a Pur driveway prvious material type of driveway so if if that's something that you would like to condition as part of this I mean the Engineering Group has no objection to requiring it versus not requiring it does that that's mayor that's my question but in the condition 14 it says all so all of them have to be that way if we apply it this so yeah please do so the couple of things here so I think what what Mr McCarthy is saying but not not saying clearly but what stated in the report is that prvious driver are not required here um this came up in the last discussion I believe it was actually the vice mayor that brought it up um perious material requires maintenance um it's not NE we're not requiring it I I think if you asked us we we wouldn't even suggest it necessarily because it does have maint there a maintenance component to it that most people are not going to do and eventually over time that perious material will not work it'll that will stop functioning and so um to add the cost of doing that and that's not something that's why we said look it's up to you if the council feels strongly we're not going to object to it but the whoever is buying these homes needs to understand that they have to go through this process of basically vacuuming up these their driveway uh and maybe that's the homeowners association that might need to do that and relative to the slide so the slide if if you look at the the title of the slide it's additional possible condition so as as the council member Fernandez mentioned if you would like to we're following up on a on direction that was brought up at the last meeting if you'd like to add that as a condition then you can uh but we just want to make sure that it's clear here that if you don't want it as a condition somebody should have stated for the record if you're going down this approval path that you don't want that as a condition will obviously won't won't be part of the record so we're going have to slice and dice the conditions this was just additional possible based on the last meeting other questions yes council member Fernandez um this is back to Miranda with the number five the one we've proposed and the one that they've proposed so can you can you tell me because one of the things that people like about Temple Terrace is that not all of our houses look identical there we have a a variety of of facades and shapes and floor plans and all kinds of things and in a lot of newer construction you don't get that so with their proposal so I get that we don't want necessarily to approve some sort of concept an elevation and then have a someone come in and build something completely different we've seen that happen now a couple of times but what would be our objection to the proposed the Builder proposed number five which may result in some variety in the home stock like how would we keep it from being how would we keep it within what the expectation is with quality but yet um allow them to have the differences in facades I guess is what I'm asking as from our side from the city side if we if we went with their proposed condition number five yeah they're proposing some architectural features it's a minimum of three so it's really flexible um um I don't and I think that's a question really for the applicant about the uniqueness they might have certain models that they're thinking of and proposing they may be able to give you more detail um but the staff condition is is uh restricting the models that I just presented and then also to allow slight flexibility with maybe some of the features uh like the garage on the other side than what shown in in the models but as far as uniqueness I think that's more of a question for the applicant I I do think you can have three architectural features on any home I I well I guess what I'm asking is if we were to accept the applicant's proposed number five condition what's the city's concern that accepting that versus the staff proposal so uh you wouldn't see uh you might not see what's presented the models that I presented to you it might be one story The One garage it instead of the two two car garages that you see um it could be different form different I I without um without uh those models being bound by the project it could be any elevation really as long as they meet the three architectural features so for from the city perspective what we would want is to have the the floor plan or the models approved in this project along with a generic elevation but then would we be able to tell the applicant but you could come in but you could present the architectural choices that you would give give the customer and that would be part of the approval process would that be a compromise that we could have so if you went with the applicants proposal um right I I don't know if the developer going to pick the three architectural features or they going to leave that up to the um hone owner that's something that um again I think will be best um asked by the applicant um we're kind of walking into perspective yeah we're kind of walk py uh PD do require elevations and I have not seen um an approved PD without an elevation so we're kind of walking into unprecedented territory so it's really a matter if city council wants to see exactly what their uh what those models show or would you uh be willing to allow any any elevation with those three architectural features so and so then what we would want to see I I I'm just asking from the city perspective what what is going to give the city the protection that we're getting the project if the city approves it the project that the city approves however I'm also asking about how then the the Builder can incorporate some of the architectural or design features that they're saying that they'd want to add choices to so would they would we want them to come to the city with the proposed floor plans and elevations and maybe have multip have the elevations that they're willing to offer to build for people as all of them offered as part of the package that then would come in front of city council for approval uh that's specifically what the applicant does not want to do they do not want to come back to city council for their architectural approval um if you're talking about at a staff level um we could write you know something along the lines of it has to be submitted to our division before the permitting process um but again if you wanted to see it uh well it's not necessarily me specifically not you sorry yes the council well and not even I mean I'm not speaking for anyone here in the council but I guess my concern is we've had a situation with a couple of projects where they've come before city council right we've approved yes a a project and then it hasn't been built according to that approval and what has been built has not been it's not satisfied the intent of what city council approved originally right with removing those models there is no point of reference for staff okay so it'll be just those three architectural features and whatever elevation they can find a bu builder for so what would we need to do in order to I'm I'm not trying to say be flexible but but some flexibility in order to provide the guidelines for the project that gives staff a frame of reference but also allow some flexibility for people or the Builder or the home buyer to add some other features or make personalize their house a little bit um like I said they specifically don't want to go back to council the only thing I can think of is if you want um Community Development to look at it to get uh their approval before it goes through the perming process you know what I'm asking but there's no I think you you you might be asking I apologize if I get it wrong that if you want us to come up with some parameters is that what what you're seeking potentially well I'm saying if we want if if if in order to do this project sorry I'm meeting a candy too um in order to do this project according to our process we have to have elevations and the and the plans to to be approved as part of the overall project approval but it seems that the developer is asking to be able to do some architectural deviation from what they're proposing so if we approve not they don't they may not want to do those models at all okay maybe that's where the confusion is they seem to want sort of a clean slate to be able to come back to you I imagine what they're trying to do I would they can speak for themselves is probably test the marketplace see what kind of product might might might sell in this in this market and then they'll they'll have an idea right now it's they're pretty early in the process so they may not have done that that leg work yet okay so then where does that leave us when we're looking at approving a project I get that we could say yes to to their uh their condition number five but then we are in a situation where we have you're not going to be built right that's correct excuse me I think that we should probably hear from the applicant first might answer to this let's make sure that we're sticking with question questions and not getting into discussion at this point but we will hear from the applicant before we enter into discussion that's my that that's where my main question okay we have more but you haven't spoken yet vice mayor would you I don't have any questions you don't have any questions disc okay council member CH about this if this was a normal r s development would we have any control on what structure is being built features no but it's because it's a PD because it's PD okay that's all I wanted to know thank you that was going to be my question PD dictates that that we have limited number of architectural op options PD says you you're required to submit building elevations so um they have to submit models like you see there it doesn't detail the architectural features it just says whatever you do submit you're bound by that for so you with the PD you'll end up with the cookie cutter type houses there they could all be the same or very very similar to each other um there's a few variations in the two models I've shown but yes it would pretty much be bound by the essenti okay the PD designation limits what what can be done with that okay all right just a quick follow up on that so with the PD and you we've shown two models they could submit 10 models 20 models a subject to bring my PowerPoint I mean I know there's a lot of variation in the models they submitted in terms of floor plans options so for example yeah the model 2 is 2400 Square ft that's elevation a and then you have uh the left and right elevation and then you see there's a different variation of that same model elevation B but I guess and then you have different options for porch P PD doesn't restrict the number of models that they submit correct that's correct they submitted what they're proposing right okay okay other questions for Miranda I don't think so I have questions for the applicant please so before I ask questions I'll give you an opportunity to speak to everything that's been said so far if you like well I appreciate that Council Jeremy couch with Tampa civil um and I'm here representing the applicant I'm also a professional engineer that specializes in drainage um could we put up the conditions that were the optional um oh oh the clicker okay I get the drive nice okay one more there you go great so um you know Council when we make a zoning application the request typically is is this appropriate location for a single family subdivision with lot widths of 50 foot that's really what we intend to ask the code doesn't have the 50 Foot options so therefore we're defaulted into PD and then we have to follow the PD standards when thinking about 28 lots and at the time of zoning to come up with 10 elevation options is nearly impossible I mean the architecture costs more than the land for something like that so what we attempted to do with this condition is to give Council a guarantee that you're not going to drive through here and see homes that are nothing but stucco no siding no coach lights no cornices and so what we wanted to say is a minimum of three architectural features so that we can vary the looks throughout the neighborhood and if councilman Chambers comes and wants to buy a new home there and says you know he wants siding and board and Baton that option is available without resoning so that's really what the the request is uh one thing that is not in there which we certainly would like to add is that no garages will be less than two car um so that would be an option also the models if we develop a model that has a side entry garage we can't do that without rezoning the project and so the intent is really to have a set of guidelines that staff can follow staff is professional planners they can count architectural elevations and see that we meet that standard and meet that intent and proceed with our 28 individual permits as we ask them one by one so that's really what we're trying to do there um you know there may be a huge demand for one-story models and we don't have that in there and so to build a one-story home a lot of people do not want to go upstairs if that's an option you know we would have to come back and rezone so that's really what we're trying to do um with regards to the city Engineers report um it's a great report Brian does a great job uh he went out there after a gully washer and he pointed out that on the east side of Davis Road opposite of ours they have a bit of a flooding issue right there and so really what the intent is and I told him we can absolutely fix the west side of the road there's no infrastructure we can extend the curb out and take it in similar to the subd division to the north we're we're completely in agreement to do that and add that as a condition we also talked about the potential for um uh installing a drainage easement along the southern property line behind where any accessory structures would be so that there's no sheds or anything in there so if we need to Tinker with the drainage that there's a drain ad gement to the HOA to do that so we're in agreement with that um we we don't think that pervious driveways are a good idea in a single family community um inside of a parking lot and a commercial site we do it a lot we do it to save trees we do it to lower runoff rates but single family homes and HOAs that are saying hey pressure wash your driveway if you had like Turf block pavers and they were like or somebody's like well you know I'm going to tear it up and put gravel down I mean that would look awful so uh I would ask the council to not adopt that um and I think I think that was it unless you have any questions of me Council questions council member Chambers I know I'm beating this one up but just a simple yes or no with uh your condition number five if with that condition in could an A-frame be built like an A-frame cabin A-frame cabin yes yes okay council members I don't think we could sell it though sir I know but it could be sure okay I I would be okay to preclude any type of structures like uh the circle Huts that they build up north and iglo and anything else that in and require a minimum two-car driveway garage vice mayor can we go back to the presentation and go back I think two slides one earlier than that oh I'm I'm supposed to drop I'm sorry and one more before that oh gosh one more before that that's not the one okay this is the one so for these suggested conditions these are from you all right or is this from staff uh this is what we proposed to staff and what staff has included as the as as the condition the lot development standard for staff to uh Council to approve consider okay that's that's what I needed to see again thank you that's all I don't have a further question other questions for the applicant so I guess I'm back on council member Fernandez sorry I jumped in I'm back back on number five and the concern is I I don't want you to have to come before us to be rezoned for every every small change but at the same time in PD we're trying to do some sort of cohesive plan for staff to follow that has met the expectations of of council for what we think I'm not talking about specific I I know the floor plan is but I'm not saying what would sell on the market but I'm saying the overall project is a valuable it's it adds value to the city so I'm I'm but I have zero problem with differences in architectural features um there a question yeah the question is when would you know what you want to build and how do we reconcile the city concerns with a viable project assuming the city council approved us today and we went forward um you know it's going to take us at least a year to obtain infrastructure permits and develop the roadway Network um at that time probably nine months from now we'd have an idea of what the market is looking for you know right now the trend is like modern Farmhouse elevations everybody's excited about white homes with black shutters and trim and Dutch Dormers and cool stuff like that um i a a hard guarantee other than what we've put in there is difficult other than I would say this is a major investment into the city the cost of the land and the infrastructure is a huge investment and I I don't think our end product would be anything that you are not um excited about or that would not be a good addition to the city I understand where the PD guidelines come from it's typically commercial projects somebody wants to build a nice building on a very prominent corner and they tell you one thing and you get a metal building with no windows uh these are single family homes so I think in general it's different and it should be considered different and I'd be happy to talk I mean if if you consider that condition we could add you know it has to be I'm not a good lawyer WR in language but um we just don't want to like rezone every time and Staff feel like hey sorry we can't approve you to add that bonus room in the back you got to go back to city council are there other questions for the applicant questions I might I'm sure that this developer has the greatest of intentions but in speaking to the two conditions they can both be approved together um if you approve only the one proposed by the developer essentially what you can get is anything as long as they put three of those things on can we get to discussion before we have this okay I thought I was addressing councilman Fernandez comments okay so and so I understand that they may want to do the proposed elevations they may want to do a different elevation they could come forward to you with multiple elevations since they're not restricted and let you know now whether they want to you and get your approval of the two that have been presented and maybe two or three more if the market changes and they want to build a less expensive house but right now if you go with only the proposed one what they could essentially build anything so you are not really approving any particular type of a house at all it'll you're all you're approving is that it has three of those things on it and I saw that one of them is trim and that could I don't that's so vague I have no idea what trim would even be or how much or where so that that's what you're getting are there other questions for the applicant okay all right thank you sir if there are no other questions I will close the public hearing and ask the clerk to read the title of the ordinance and then we'll have discussion an ordinance of the city of Temple Terrace Florida resoning two Parcels of land located south of East fer Avenue and west of Davis Road addressed as one24 Davis Road in totaling 6.7 Plus minus Acres lying within the unincorporated area of Hillsboro County legally described an exhibit a attached here to by changing the Zone in atlas map designation on said property from zoning classification agricultural single family conventional asc1 Hillsboro County and residential 7 R7 Temple Terrace to plan development PD and Temple Terrace for rzp 23-2 providing for Amendment to the official zoning atlas map of the city providing severability providing for correction of typographical errors is repealing all ordinances or parts of ordinances in Conflict here with and providing for an effective date thank you madam clerk I don't I don't normally start the discussion but if you'll indulge me this time I'd like to I think we have gone and and partially partially my fault right but I think we've gone way into the Weeds on this project and I think we need to retreat back to our own rules I I think we are way down in Weeds on exceptions and things like that we're the or we're the ru makers right and and if we don't like the rules in the city we don't like the ordinances we can change them but and once they are there we need to live by them so let me start with the easier of the two things that I want to say one is the exception for the architect for the elevations I don't think that's a good idea at all a PD zoning District requires elevations for the building as council member Fernandez pointed out that has saved our bacon here recently a couple of times where we've said no you built something different than the elevations so I think we need to stick by our PD rules that say we require elevations now I don't have any objections at all I don't know what the ordinance says if they want to come up with more options to give them more flexibility and then come back for for a revision or something like that I would have no heartburn with that but I think we need to know the style of the homes that are going to be built there and I don't think we need to make an exception to the rules for that the more complicated one is the lot coverage and and this is this one's kind of on me and I take I I and I accept that and I apologize to everybody but at our first hearing I I kind of led the charge on what's the magic about the 60% thing and I without intending to catch you off guard and do the gotcha thing I kind of did it and it wasn't intentional I I honestly I do not do gotcha questions to people on purpose I didn't think about it until the discussion and I sprung that on our staff kind of unexpectedly and naturally they weren't prepared for that and kind of we had a and then we went down the rabbit hole on the discussion of that well since the first hearing I've had more time they've had more time I've talked to our staff I've read the the technical memo that we've got I've talked to our Engineers I've talked to the Planning Commission people to say okay what's the what's the downside remember me asking who loses if we do that well there is a loser and there's a reason we had the lot coverage rules we have on recommendation of our staff extended the lot coverage beyond what the rules say but our staff is recommending that we do so towards the greater good of this project that it's appropriate that we wiggle a little bit our staff is saying I don't recommend you wiggling any more than 60% right that's already wiggling a lot you're going from 47.5% coverage to 60 that's already a big concession don't go any further than that our staff has reiterated that to us several times in writing and given and now the Engineers are to the point of talking about perious driveway surfaces to accommodate all the runoff because we've extended the lot coverages so much we do not want a subdivision with gravel driveways folks that's ridiculous we don't want to a subdivision when we don't know what the houses are going to look like there's a reason the PD rules are the way they are I say we take our staff's recommendation on the 60% lock curve we take our Engineers recommendation on the drainage easement and the construction that they have to do whatever we stick with normal impervious concrete driveways like every other subdivision in the city right we didn't do this for the new 141 Home subdivision on Temple Terrace Highway they were able to come up with elevations as required by the rules they should too that's my discussion vice mayor uh thank you for your comments um the lot coverage thing gave me a lot of heartburn and um I agree with you that 60% is a stretch and we should stay within that um you seemed like you really wanted pools though so I was trying to like find ways to compromise so you could have your pools but um I'm right there with you on everything that you just said um I think that um the 60% our staff recommendations are what we should adhere to so thank you Council memb I believe we should stick with five number five the original number five um I believe that we should stick with 60% on the coverage um but I do think that but but there least three other condition or the two other conditions 13 and 14 or 14 and 15 you bring the optional conditions do we have to do we need to address those separately because they're not really part of anything well they may not be relevant if we don't do well 14 we don't 14 I think we need to kill okay okay um and 15 I don't think we really care because I think that's more of a more of a a procedure so I think we need to go with staff's recommendations except not 15 not 14 and the the not the not the alternate five and not number 14 I think 13's important I think 15 is important I don't know how to word that in there you know but that's my that's my opinion okay Council no additional I can support that council member Fernandez um with regard to the 60% versus 69% the way I look at this and I understand the lot coverage um but if we are willing to do the 60% lot coverage with a house adding the pool to get to the 69% doesn't actually change to me the bulk of your lot because you're still allowing the 60% for the structure so and I recognize that there would be maybe a pool cage or something but I I don't have as big an issue with that because I don't I still don't see that as being a bulky addition to the lot and without that we're still allowing 60% for the structure so that I mean that's that's the way I was looking at it and I I understand staff's recommendation but they're okay with the 60% with the structure and I just I don't see the pool as being such a a visual to add to the bulk of the project but everything else you said yes I mean that's what I was trying to get at with my questioning that ultimately we I'm in favor of staff's proposal for for condition number five my my concern with the 60% CU you just largely most of what you just said I said two weeks ago so since then and talking to staff and planners and doing some research I I've become a little more concerned about things that we didn't that didn't come up last time and one of the things is you know the PD zoning district is a that's a Sticky Wicket already because it's almost like the wild west of zoning it's like we put this huge burden on staff to come up with what's allowable and what's not based on a comparison to another zoning District that is as close a comparison as we can find but it's never the same thing so we're always comparing the closest thing my concern with the PD the PD zoning district is if we're not careful that becomes very subjective mhm and I think the council over since I've been on Council we've worked very hard to try to maintain some consistency that hence the push at the 50ft lot width because that's what we've done with some of our affordable housing projects is over their objections we made them do 50 ft so we've been pretty consistent with that we've been as far as I know 100% consistent with requiring elevations yeah um I am concerned about going against staff's recommendation on this because what comes next because any it seems like almost anything has got to be built in Temple Terrace has to be reone to PD I don't know why that is but we have this PD if you want to do anything you got to reone as PD and then we're left with the planers trying to figure out how that compares to R seven or commercial or whatever it is what happens when the next one comes up and they say well and their at that point their recommendation is because of the characteristics of a lot they don't recommend an an expansion they say no 47.5 is what it should be for single family homes there's no reason for an exception in this case and then the applicant says well whoa whoa whoa hold on you went to 60% plus another 9% for pool enclosures on this one what makes my indifferent so you truly are just shooting from the hip every time there's a PD that comes before you you're making these arbitrary decisions and that's I'm concerned about that scenario and us going off on this one further than we've gone before whereas I think up to this point we've been fairly consistent with our PD requirements in terms of lot width and elevations and other things if staff were recommending this for good planning World reasons whatever those might be because we don't understand that weird fuzzy world of planning but if they were coming to us and said well because of the unique nature of this project we're comfortable recommending that but that's not the case I mean we're going against our own professional staff recommendation into Uncharted Territory where we've never gone before and then I go back to we're the governing body here when we don't like ordinances or they need to be changed or revive because times change we change them we we task them to come up with different ways but when we do have rules that we passed or previous councils passed I think we are always better served by living by those rules or changing them and that's that's my response to that and and I get it I I I get it but in this case it's not I mean I'm I I get I I see both sides but it's not technically that we have codified the 40 the 60% in plan development or the 50 it's it's that it's best practices well no the 47.5 is codified that's yeah but that but I'm saying this I I I'm looking at the 60% and saying if we're okay with the property with the structure being 60% whether they have a pool there or not the structure is 60% so so I guess that's I I'm just I'm in I'm I'm looking at the reasoning behind it differently I'm looking at the slippery slope is what I'm looking at I don't think the world would crumble if they had a pool behind their houses in this subdivision but I think we might regret this in two years that that's my please uh I've mentioned how staff feels many times about the lot coverage of this 69% um but what I did want to show here is I I know you're concerned whether they'll have a pool or not but if you uh read the engineers report there's looks like there's an incent that the applicant submitted and it shows uh the two-story home at 51% and that includes the building Pad pool area driveway and everything else without the pool it's at 51% lot coverage so they can still possibly have a small pool at 60% the other thing I'm that I just thought of thank you for that the other thing I just thought of is we have cases that have been before the boa on this very topic where the boa has adhered to our rules as they're currently written we we could very well be opening a Pandora's Box here for anybody who's had who's been rejected for an increase in lot coverage because we're living with the 47.5 well what about them so you told me I couldn't do it I've lived here for 30 years I I just I get it I I I do get it I don't think the world would crumble if they had a pool but I do think we're straying into an area where we may not be you know we're trying to the right thing I get it but I I'm afraid that we're going into an area that in my opinion so where does that leave us somebody want to try to navigate a motion out of this I would have to see the pull up the presentation I can try you're going to try I'll try you want this slide up uh no um we'll we'll get correct I'll get corrected everybody listen carefully to make sure that we get where we're okay uh move to approve second public hearing and second reading of ordinance 1566 approving a resoning of folio number 03753 4- with an address of 100024 Davis Road and unknown address folio number 0375 31-5 00 approving the conditions 1 through 12 listed with the city maximum loot coverage of 60% and in addition the requested uh number 13 and 15 second put the can you put those up again 13 and that page 13 that's the storm water runoff and the dra eement drainage easement okay we capture it were you listening it sounded good to me to keep St submiss number five and add 13 and 15 now the staff sorry and also we're discussing the motion at this point okay staff did we get a second yes yes I have second okay go ahead the staff number five no I'm sorry go back to the go back to the other uh the list of all the conditions is that what I want to go back to keep going back that one do we need to modify that maximum lot coverage his motion did that his motion did yes what did how did it do it it said 60% you said 60% okay all right yes okay all right good I'll make sure we covered that okay yeah Max is 60% and then keep condition number five as is and then add 13 and 15 correct that is your intent your second yes discussion of the motion she was wondering if it if it needs to clarify that that means with a pool up to 60% with normal access uh footprint of the building and approved accessory structures well lck coverage is coverage coverage is lck coverage okay discussion of the motion if not all those in favor signify with i i oppos no nay okay ordinance is adopted on second reading okay uh ladies and gentlemen scheduling a special meeting to adopt the tenative millage rate under Council business it's recommended that the council schedule a special meeting to adopt the tenative mill rate on Tuesday July the 30th 2024 at 5:00 p.m. in the council chambers Mo to schedule second Motion in a second discussion that's a 30th correct yes just for the public edification this that meeting on July 30th if we vote here and it passes we will set the tentative millage rate for next the next fiscal year we cannot go any higher than that rate we can go lower if during the budget process it becomes apparent we need to go lower but this would be the cap okay so all those in favor signify with i i opposed no nay all right we're good we our any other carryover Council business seeing none new business or board reports vice mayor I have a question that occurred to me during the discussion today that I don't really need an answer now but I got curious about what type of um planning we might be making into our code to account for climate change like for example the 90-minute rain events that we experience that are causing you know increased pooling of water and I'm wondering it's probably a planning question or an engineering question is what what kind of um thought are we putting into the future with that kind of stuff in mind you don't have to answer now but it's just something I'm thinking about U sea level rise uh a few years ago fora statute uh put in that local government should have some language regarding sea level rise um and it should be implemented in the comprehensive plan I'm I'm not too familiar with the language in there but I can look into that and and let you know okay cool thank you thank you are new business council member Fernandez I just have uh the cultural assets committee that is part of the Hillsboro County County Commission that Awards grants to events that happen to be culturally significant or um increase Community involvement in the Arts or U culture or uh mostly arts and culture if you have a project that's going on and you think that you would like to see if those grants are viable for you you would go on the Hillsboro County county commissioner Hillsboro County webs site and that's where the grant applications are and the grants those will be opening very soon so the if you now would be the time to apply good thank you other new business board reports yes council member Chambers um um Mr L brought up two things one the library book sale that is done by the friends of the library that's the support group so the book sale are the ones that are donated all year so that's for the friends uh organization that raise money and that supports the library the second thing he mentioned the Time Capsule and I know the Centennial committee has talked about that and I have personally volunteered to help open that in 100 years so anyway just to let you know on that but also on the uh the city's uh community art public art project uh the railings are up in the hallway they were put up this week thank you to Public Works wherever Jason went but thank you uh uh for getting those up also uh a very extensive of document has been created thank you to our Deputy attorney Ernie Mueller and uh Arts council member Nancy katrick and the city manager for working on this document to protect the city and the artists that'll be displaying their work that all calls going out now that the railings are up to get Nancy Hudson no Nancy katrick just checking and we have two NES of but that's K Patrick's going to be the curator of this project for the city also the other part of it is uh the street mural uh that uh we're proposing I've talked to the uh city manager uh the city's come up with some also other alternative intersections that they're exploring to per uh to give to us and this item will be on the August 6th agenda oh cool to talk about but there's more than just a couple intersections they've been doing some extensive work on background on pavement you know we don't want to put a mural on something it'll be repaved in a a year or something so thank you for that work and that'll be on the agenda for us to decide on that very good thank you that's it the new business board reports I do want to say something I want to give the the public I know there's a few of you here but there's also people watching I want to give a little budget update um for those of you particularly in light of there's an article in the beacon U it's a good article talks about some of the things that are in our upcoming budget um on page two uh and it it's entitled workshops reveal plenty on the city's plate and it goes into detailing a lot of uh some of the projects that we have uh not even all of them and and uh some really good stuff going on in Temple Terrace right now we have a lot of things going on a lot of building projects a lot of Investments um really across the city but in our downtown area a lot of investments in the EOC the utilities Administration buildings parks and wreck Investments um a lot of good things going on but when my concern when I read this is that the public doesn't doesn't always understand how the budget process works and they think all government funds are the same and they are not there's silos of money there's different buckets of money and the different buckets of money can only be spent on certain things so you might have this bucket is full and you got plenty of money to do that but you can't spend the money that you would save from not buying a garbage truck can't be spent on something else it's it's apples and oranges and so right now the city is very well positioned in terms of capital money for a variety of reasons one is the downtown Redevelopment some of that t that tax money that Tiff money is starting to finally pay in more than what the loan payments are that's that's the first time this has happened um two is through efficiency uh from Mr be and our staff members going through Public Works and all of our our departments and finding efficiencies we've underspent in some of those departments and we've got some money that can be recovered for Capital um another is a community investment tax that we still have some residual money coming that's the money that we use to buy police cars and fire trucks and Parks equipment playground equipment those types of things so the capital funds are primarily healthy right now but the general funds the money that you see going towards paying salaries and towards day-to-day operations buying computers and paying the phone bill and the electricity and all that kind of stuff that money is tight this year um we've got a estimate from the property appraiser about how much property taxes we could expect this was an estimate we got a month or so ago and we kind of built a budget around that estimate and then when we got the certified copy of the real valuation it was significantly less and so our operating budget in the next year is very very close to the margin even though you read this and you say oh they got plenty of money because they're doing all these capital projects we do have a good amount of money in capital but that money can't be used in general and so remember that there's different buckets of money that can only be used in those buckets for in gas tax money can only be used in certain things things the street fund the sanitation fund there's different buckets so I just don't want the public to read this and think oh they spent all this money on Capital and then two years from now we bump the mill rate up 05 or something they go oh look they built all the stuff they couldn't afforded and now they have to raise taxes well that's not how it works so um I do invite the public to come to our budget workshops they're in this room there are public meetings they happen during the daytime they're not exciting but they are informing so um I do invite everybody to come and if we can sit through it you can sit through it so okay other new business and board reports comment yes um I we have not this the first time meeting since the 4th of July celebration oh thank you this this past Four of July the whole the from beginning to end was incredible thank you to all the staff Leisure Services everybody who participated every it was just great all the way through to the fireworks the fireworks I think were the most spectacular ones I've seen um in the city and and forever but uh I just want you know thank you I think you guys did a phenomenal job again you seem to outdo yourself every year so thank you yes thank you okay city manager report thank you Mr Mayor um I just wanted to Echo what council member schisler just said about the and thank not only this the staff um but also thank the city council for coming out to the parade and the members of the community were there so it was a great event as as the council members stated and also want to just disagree slightly with the mayor I thought the presentation at the was very exciting at the budget Workshop uh so I mean in the geeky way in a geeky way riveting it was riveting yeah but I have nothing else thank you City attorney I have nothing good anybody else directors anything we overlooked anything thank you again for all your hard work all right we'll be adjourned Ian you got a 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