good afternoon everybody welcome on this beautiful sunshiny uh Florida day here without the rain we wouldn't have any oranges right so we're happy to have it I'll call this meeting to order thank you for being in attendance uh the first order of business is to approve the minutes that have been mailed to each of you are there any recommendations for changes hearing none do we consider the minutes approved yes you're here thank you all right we do have a special guest here yes would you like a vote yes a motion okay we'll we'll do that okay last time I did that and everybody looked at me like oh that's not necessary so I thought I'll try it this way okay all right so I do need a motion to approve motion to approve and a second please second you g to do both I'll do it I do have a motion and a second all oo all in favor of approving the minutes please say I any opposed thank you Mr Ernie I appreciate that very much uh we do have a special guest in the house uh mayor Ross is here and so before we get on to our other business we'd like to invite him to approach the podium from that side of the de good evening board members and I am neither special nor a guest but I'm happy to be here and so i' ALS again I just want to thank you for your service uh to the city I personally appreciate it uh the staff appreciates it and the entire city council appreciates it so thank you again I do have a um subject I'd like to bring to you for your consideration um we as you I'm sure you probably know if not you're going to hear we are u in the process or we did probably today apply for the certified local government designation that process takes some time um and during that interim I understand that tonight kind of concludes the training process or some of the some of that and so after tonight there's a there's kind of a lag until we get the CLG and so um I I would offer this idea for your consideration is something productive that we could really be a benefit to do during that lag um I would like to ask you um if you would consider having a hosting an Outreach meeting perhaps at late foot like we did when we were considering this program to begin with and uh for you as as a board to kind of take the lead in this but in conjunction with City staff to invite certain members of the public and obviously it would be open to anybody but there might be specific people that you would want to reach out to and invite um the city staff would prepare a u a bit of a slideshow perhaps or a bit of a presentation um we could perhaps have some of the success stories that we heard from Tampa and some of the examples of the projects that they've done and how this has been a benefit to both the property owner the neighbors the city the value increase those kinds of things um and for you guys to kind of be on hand to field any questions or mingle or encourage or arm twist or whatever we can do um but also to get some feedback too about you know what would be meaningful for you to want to enroll in this um aside from the property tax incentives you know we're talking about the plaques and we're talking about different designations to maybe hear from the property owners you to hear from the property owners to say you know what what would be meaningful to you and what are your fears and you know can we talk about this and so the last time we've really engaged the public like this was when we were considering the ordinance and um anytime you do something like this no matter whether it's historical or roads or Parks it doesn't matter there's always a fear element you know people are always hesitant about what could happen I mean what what's the worst thing that could happen and that's what's going to happen and so um perhaps this would be an opportunity for you to kind of aay some of those fears and for staff to kind of educate people so um I'm not asking you to take another special event on on your own but our city staff would certainly be walking with you hand in hand but that seems to me like a good project a good Endeavor to maybe take in this interval so and that's all I have unless you have something for me Madam chair well any questions no questions hello so I'm I'm very easy to find I'm always around so if something comes up that you uh concerns or you know on on historic preservation or anything else always feel free to call me I'm sure everybody's got my phone number so um I'm very accessible so if something comes up don't get don't jump on social media and rant you know and and uh you know please give us a chance to straighten it out or call us or you know usually there's a story as you know you've did this for a long time so uh we're happy to help with whatever comes up and usually we can resolve it so but there's no retract button on Facebook so okay thank you very much again for your service thank you Mr Mayor you uh well we have a request before us but what do you all think you how do you on it or are we willing to entertain this event certainly I so I say yes I think it's important you know at this stage they kind of had a discovery meeting where they were gauging interests and now that the CLG has been applied for I think it's a good time to do it again I do too I do too um do you have a timeline or it sounds to me like this we're very agreeable we're more than happy and of course he said the magic words that staff would be oh managing this event I'm trying to think timeline uh probably just enough public notice so that people can plan to come to this event uh then we would need to prepare uh the mayor said he'd like to hear some you know success stories so just thinking perhaps maybe we can invite a preservation planner from either Plant City or uh Tampa to come and attend this and perhaps share some success stories and why it works for them that of course would depend on their availability so I'm I don't know trying to work through this how long it would take any couple months I I was just going to say this doesn't sound like a springtime event this is definitely either summer or early fall before we could get all of the players in place to Be an Effective Workshop exactly yeah so more there's more to come yes okay well as you can see the group is agreeable so I don't think we have to vote on something like this I think we've all said you know we're willing to participate and be more than happy to help however we can okay all right all right we'll move along we have a PowerPoint presentation from our Deputy City attorney thank you sir the man behind the curtain the man behind the curtain okay I'm Ernie Mueller from the legal department and today we are going to briefly discuss the legal Basics behind variances pursuant to the Temple Terrace city code VAR es from specifically enumerated provisions of the Land Development code can only be granted when an applicant has demonstrated that a literal enforcement of that provision will result in an undue and unnecessary hardship and that the variance request ensures that the public health safety and general welfare are protected unnecessary hardship has generally been defined as a non- self-created character istic of the property in question which renders it virtually impossible to use the land for the purpose or in the manner for chair while we're waiting um on that last item did you want to put that like on unfinished business that would come up on a future agenda the uh idea of the uh Outreach that's so it doesn't get kind of yes yes thank you very much hello I'm Ernie Mueller from the legal department and today we are going to briefly discuss the legal Basics behind variances pursuant to the temple terce city code variances from specifically enumerated provisions of the Land Development code can only be granted when an applicant has demonstrated that a literal enforcement of that provision will result in an undue and unnecessary hardship and that the variance request ensures that the public health safety and general welfare are protected unnecessary hardship has generally been defined as a non- self-created characteristic of the property in question which renders it virtually impossible to use the land for the purpose or in the manner for which it is zoned practically speaking especially for variances on residential property this means when the code as applied unreasonably denies the property owner of the ability to use the property for a permitted use as others in the same zoning District are generally able to do and this is due to a unique circumstance or condition of the land first we have to note that again this is only hardships as to the land I need extra storage space I want a greenhouse or we have have a growing family are not a condition of the land and these cannot justify a variance when considering whether what the applicant wants is something reasonable we can look to the surrounding Community for example does everyone have a pool but because the applicant has a triangle-shaped lot while everyone else has rectangular Lots is the applicant unable to have a pool in that scenario there would be a hardship and a very would be appropriate this is actually an example from case law in laying versus Zoning Board of adjustment the applicant wanted an inground pool that would be 35 ft long and 18 ft wide which was the minimum size pool that could accommodate a diving board it was a typical sized pool for the area but the applicant could not fit it on the property without a setback reduction because the location of the existing garage and driveway made it impossible to move the pool any closer to the North the court found that this met the hardship requirement keep in mind though if the pool had not been a typical size for the area or if had not been the minimum siiz pool for the diving board or if the pool could have been placed Elsewhere on the property the court may not have found a hardship let's consider another scenario what if everyone in the area has rectangular Lots including the applicant but no one is able to fit a pool let's say also the applicant wants this pool for physical therapy in this case a variance is not justified the applicant wants a use that no one else has a unique desire does not justify a variance only a unique condition of the property some classic examples of when variances are are Justified include exceptionally narrow or shallow Lots unusually shaped lots for example a triangular corner lot exceptional topography conditions if they are on a steep slope are there trees on the property extraordinary situations with a structure or building all of which are not common to the other properties in the same zoning District or vicinity something unique about the property is required to establish the need for a variance this brings us to another example from the case law in Waltman versus town of Yarmouth there was a large area all with undersized Lots the setbacks made the Lots impossible to develop but this was true for all the Lots in the entire subdivision here there was no unnecessary hardship where the hardship was not unique but was one common to the general condition of the neighborhood when everyone wants something but no one can fit it relief must come from city council changing the code not the board if a 100 properties have the same problem relief should come from the way of a zoning code change not a 100 variances along those lines common illegal structures will not justify a variance for example if everyone has built an illegal carport that will not justify the applicant also having a carport variances are only Justified when everyone else can legally have a structure or use but this applicant because of a unique property characteristic cannot achieve the same structure or use also what if the neighbor got a variance granting one variance does not guarantee granting another but identical situations should be treated identically so if a neighbor got a front yard setback variance but it was due to a Grand Tree in the rear of the property and the applicant does not have the same condition of trying to save a Grand Tree the variance should be denied on the other hand what if the front yard setback reduction was due to a canal that also affects this neighbor in the C same way now a variance May well be justified some rules from the case law are a hardship cannot be self-created if the owner did something to cause this problem that is not a hardship the hardship cannot be one of mere economic disadvantage many people ask for a variance because of the expense of tearing down an illegal addition this is never a hardship the hardship can not be personal it must be related to the land that is because all variances run with the land and because all variances run with the land an approval of a variance for a time period is not appropriate all subsequent owners will enjoy the same variance for the same reason it does not matter that the current owner bought the land in a triangle shape knowing that it would be difficult to develop that prior owner would have also had that issue however if the owner buys a property wanting to use it for something unique fully knowing the property cannot support that use that is a self-created hardship that would not warrant a variance here are two examples to help illustrate first a property owner buys a triangle lot that cannot fit a reasonably sized home the lot cannot fit a house similar in size are slightly smaller than those found in the neighborhood this is a hardship created by the property that runs with the land a variance would be warranted to allow a house to be constructed on the property however let's consider a second example if a property owner bought a rectangular lot that could only fit a reasonably sized house similar to the neighborhood and a small pool similar to the neighborhood but now needs a variance to build a five-car garage which nobody else in the neighborhood would have room for either this person has simply purchased the wrong property a variance is not justified likewise if they asked for a variance for the garage for just a few years until they can move their cars this would absolutely not warrant a variance now that we have reviewed the general rules for variances let's go back to the city's land development code which we said requires that the board find that the applicant has shown there exists an unnecessary hardship and that the request ensures the public health safety and general welfare will be protected the burden is on the applicant to make these showings through competent and substantial evidence let's talk about the level of evidence that the applicant needs to demonstrate evidence is only common competent if the witness is qualified to offer it the evidence should be from personal knowledge in addition lay Witnesses like the owner of the property or neighbors may only offer fact-based testimony for example if a witness testifies that the area has traffic problems that is a lay opinion and is not competent however if a witness testifies that there were three traffic accidents with fatalities at this intersection last year that is fact-based testimony and is competent evidence opinions can be competent but only if they are offered by an expert in their field of expertise some examples would be an arborist could offer opinion testimony about a tree's health or whether it could be pruned but could not offer testimony about the value of the property only a witness qualified to offer property values such as a property appraiser may offer opinions of whether something will increase or decrease property value similarly only a transportation expert may offer opinion testimony on traffic safety but note that a neighbor could offer fact-based testimony that when they pull up to a particular intersection that they cannot see traffic due to an obstruction other examples of testimony that would not be competent is subjective preferences such as nobody in our neighborhood wants this or assumptions such as I am sure they will park on the streets and not the driveway you may often hear that neighbors are in support or hear from Neighbors that are against variances whether a neighbor is for or against the variance request Falls within the Ambit of opinion and is irrelevant again you should focus on only the evidence given so the board is looking for this competent substantial evidence to determine whether there is an unnecessary hardship to Warrant a variance and whether the request ensures that the public health safety and general welfare will be protected to guide these core required findings the city's Land Development code provides nine variance criteria for the board to consider for each variance request all nine criteria must be considered though the individual variances might turn on only a couple of the criteria the first criteria are a there are extraordinary and exceptional conditions pertaining to the particular piece of property in question because of its size shape or topography B the application of the provisions of the city's Land Development code to the particular piece of property would create an unnecessary and undue hardship which is not suffered in common with other properties structures or buildings in the same neighborhood and C such conditions are peculiar to the particular piece of property involved these criteria focus on the uniqueness of the prop property or a condition thereon that the strict application of the city's Land Development code would cause a hardship not suffered in common with other properties the next two criteria are D relief if granted would not cause substantial detriment to the public good or impair the purposes and intent of the city's Land Development code and the Temple Terrace comprehensive plan and e no variance shall be granted for a use of land or building or structure which is not otherwise permitted by the city's Land Development code these two criteria focus on the impact of the variance requests to neighbors and the public as well as consistency with the city's Land Development code and comprehensive plan as stated earlier neighbors May testify they are or are not in support of the variant request which would fall under the lay opinion testimony however the board may ask questions such as will the variance request be compatible with or change the character of the neighborhood will the project increase noise or flooding one thing to keep in mind with regard to consistency with the city code requirements is that any structures Allowed by the granting of a variance will still be reviewed against the city's building code and Fire Safety Code so you do not need to worry whether those codes will be met City staff will ensure that they are the sixth criteria is f any variance granted shall be the minimum variance which makes possible the reasonable use of the land buildings or property any variance from the city's Land Development code should not be more than necessary to allow the project for example most if not all variances are and should be granted in accordance with the site plan presented at the public hearing shown is a property and the principal structure setbacks let's suppose that someone shows a structure on the site plan that encroaches 3 feet into the sidey yard setback if the variance is granted to allow the structure to encroach 3 ft into the sidey yard setback the property owner could encroach 3 feet along the entire side yard setback however tying the variants to the site plan presented at the public hearing will restrict the 3T encroachment into the sidey yard to that part of the structure shown encroaching on the site plan it would prevent the property owner from encroaching 3 feet along the entire sidey the seventh criteria is G the special conditions and circumstances do not result from the actions of the applicant this ensures that the hardship was not caused by the property owner so what are some examples of a self-created hardship if the property owner enclosed a carport to build another room but now wants to build an accessory garage or another carport but cannot do so without encroaching into the setbacks that is a self-created hardship if the property owner built an addition to the home but now wants a pool with a deck and bird cage but the pool cannot be placed in accordance with the city's Land Development code because of that addition that is a self-created hardship attempting to use land Beyond its means is a self-created hardship overbuilding for any reason is not a hardship the cost of demolishing rebuilding or modifying and El legally built structure is always a self-created hardship this is a good place to discuss how the board would handle a situation where the applicant has already built a structure that required a variance would this be a self-created hardship that would warrant the denial of the variance request no in this situation you must consider the variance as if the structure that needs the variance was not there the final two criteria are H granting the variants requested will not confer on the applicant any special privilege that is denied by the city's Land Development code to other lands structures or buildings in the same district or neighborhood and I allowing the variance will result in substantial Justice being done considering both the public benefits intended to be secured by the city's Land Development code and the hard hardship that will be suffered due to denial of the variance these criteria focus on striking a balance between the property rights of the property owner with the interests of the neighborhood and public at large so remember there should be something unique about the property not the individual or what they want to do generally you are looking for something unusual about the lot or its location a triangular lot Tree location unusually narrow lot compared to District standards if the entire neighborhood has the same hardship there is no uniqueness to justify a variance building illegally or overbuilding are not hardships the variance should not cause problems for the neighborhood thank you for reviewing the legal basics of variances today you for that yes any questions no no questions I do have a question and that is uh is this presentation available in print or our not uh yeah uh well yes I do have the uh PowerPoint itself I can have it all sent to you okay or actually I could probably what you're asking probably ask Jen to place it in the folder if you could provide us with that that would be great thank you so no questions it's interesting I was thinking back to quite a few variances I've listened to me too we won't go into that not the right place okay we're moving yes yes please I I am curious if someone comes before the board requesting a variance you said it's incumbent upon them to come with evidence or expert testimony um so if if they get to us they should have all of that in place and if they don't we just say I'm sorry you don't have enough evidence to support your request or right if that were the case if this board you know if they come forward again they'll have the burden they're the ones that are requesting for this extraordinary remedy uh to allow them to BAS basically violate the code you're giving them permission to violate the code with a variance um so the burdens on them to present the evidence that satisfies this board that a variance would be justified if you if this board does not feel that there's been enough evidence there's a couple of ways to go the um you know there could be a continuance to allow that applicant to gather that information if for you know you guys feel for some reason it would have been difficult for them to do that um and again in that type of situation just remember whenever an application is in front of you for a variance or anything along you know that that you're here to to provide the applicant always has the right to have that application voted up or down that night it's up to them to ask for the continuance you know the board on its own wouldn't be able to say let's continue this and then you move to continue and blah blah blah so it'll always be the F the decision of the applicant on that um so kind of the final way is if you feel there is no not insufficient evidence to Warrant then it would be you know you'd move to deny that variance now we are not taking the place of the code board so we're not going to be getting variance requests for things that are your normal requests we're only going to be getting historic nature correct actually probably better stated yeah if most you know variants requests if they're not his going to be on a historic property or someone that's applied to have their uh property designated as historic would go to the board of adjustment they do the normal uh variance requests yeah you would the board would only be getting those variance requests that are associated with uh basically a a project that someone's doing on their historic property that they're going to be permission from you FR to do and usually it'll come in this in in the form of a of a of an addition on the property or something along that lines one thing I as I was listening to that I thought I might want to explain a little better um Brian are you able to go to slide 15 which showed the diagram of right I put my mic on they're working on it they're trying to find it I want to kind of explain the setbacks I noticed in a couple of places I said they can't you know they want to put a house on but it won't fit it almost I could tell it almost made it sound like it wouldn't fit on the property fit on the property so let me explain that and what you know really where where you guys will have request for variances which is this concept of called to setback shows a structure on the site plan thank you all right as you can see the green outlines is really the property uh line all right and then if you take let's call the bottom of this uh picture being the front yard and the top being the rear yard then of course we got our side yards the city has uh developed through its Land Development code setbacks meaning you know you can't build in these areas and usually your front yard setback runs somewhere between 15 to to 25 ft so the house is kind of set back away from the street you'll have sidey yards set back so that everybody isn't on top of each other and usually that's for you know fire safety reasons stuff like that and then of course you have your rear yard set back so that gray area is What's called the buildable area that's all within those setbacks so as this picture shows someone was wanting to do something that would encroach into that side yard setback and that's where you're going to be getting probably 90% of your requests for variances they're either going to want to go into that rear yard setback sidey yard setback and in rare occasions they may need to push something forward because there's something perhaps in the backyard as that as the uh PowerPoint kind of tried to explain sometimes someone might have to push something forward is that any clearer did I as far as kind of setbacks how setbacks work and where you know people would be wanting a variance with regard to the setbacks yeah it's clear I'm just having trouble thinking about a kind of concrete example of like a his the an additional historical kind of element to the requesting a variance because the the building itself wouldn't create a condition related to the property or or would it the fact that the build being an existing building yeah sometimes okay I that's been I think if if I understood the Outreach last time we did it there was a little bit of concern that sometimes you know the historic houses are already non not conforming to Our Land Development code so there may be issues there especially you know and if someone wants to extend somewhere what I might what I will try and do is look for some look at the city of Tampa's uh Arc and BLC if you remember we talk the Architectural Review commission and see if I can find some where they talk about variances as it's related to a historic Pro uh property and then I can uh ask if you know Jen or someone to send those I'll get some links and send that to you um and that maybe you can kind of see it in action it's always easier to see in action rather than trying to imagine how this work that' be help thank you any other questions no a lot to digest and I'm sure yeah they won't don't expect you to know it right away that's what these training sessions right and everything coming before us will have gone through some process to get here meaning the staff will have yeah done some vetting on it and stuff like that okay well thank you very much any other questions hearing none we'll move on to discussion on incentives so I just listed a couple of things um these were things that we talked about with Council and I will um go over them with you see what you think uh the first one of course the incentive is it's voluntary you nobody's going to put a gun to your head to make you do this this is just a benefit to you if you so choose um designating a historic property both locally or in the National register is a prestigious honor and officially recognizes the historic or architectural significance of the property studies commissioned by the Florida Department of State found that designation of a historic property improves marketability and increases property values now this one we talked about application fees but um and I went over this with uh the community development director and our Deputy City attorney about the application fees we considered waving the fees but there are no fees we have not put any fees in place so there's nothing to wave so for a certain time period there's no charge you can just apply and at some point we'll have to come up with a fee schedule to be to go before Council through resolution but until that time no charge and in looking at what other cities um charge or don't charge there are some some that actually don't charge they've decided not to charge at all and then other fees go up to about $300 but that does not include of course the building permit that's separate so your your application for designation or your certificate of appropriateness no charge and as Mr Fernandez explained uh at the last meeting there's also access to financial incentives ADV vorum tax exemp iions on historic property improvements for 10 years and this would be fun a photo display of enrolled properties on our website so um anybody who comes into the program their property will go on the website with the history of the property and um a nice picture and I'm I'm sure that will be you know a wonderful addition to our website and then um Marissa is going to talk about about this last one it's about bronze markers which we have talked about before but she's going to go into a little bit more detail good evening everyone um I did leave a copy of the city of Tampa's bronze markers that they um provide for their historic landmarks and their historic properties um we are contemplating something that would be similar to this that would be mounted onto the facade front facade of the house um at this time though um we spoke with the marketing department and we've decided to wait until after the flag contest is complete to design the markers so once the flag competition is completed and we have picked a new City flag then we will go back and design our uh historic markers and so hoping that we can um coordinate something to resemble the flag so and we're hoping that these will be free as well they will be of no charge to the applicants so any questions on that okay okay oh no no I mean oh sorry so if it's free do we have an idea what this will cost the city to do City at Tampa charges $174 and that covers theost of this bronze black and nothing else so why are we considering it to be free just as an incentive again we can go back and we can create a fee schedule and add a fee to this um incentive I'm not opposed to it being fore I just since it does have a a it's not like it's $10 plaque it's you know hund and some dollars plus installation or whatever so I just wondered what what the idea was I like the idea that to incentivize it which makes a big deal yeah and it will be the rare exception for someone to have it yes yeah just to add uh by the time we get up and moving it's going to be you know a couple months out uh it's possible if you wanted to uh offer these to put this in a budget to present to the city manager to give to counsel however many do you think that you would need we can make that request okay that's that's probably a good way to do it so that we we know it's covered and then the city could always say well we're going to suspend the fee at this time or until we get the program up and running and everyone wants one right okay thank you very much thanks for bringing this and these are at in Tampa I take it yeah um yes ma'am didn't we talked about the budget for our board I think we mentioned you mentioned that you wanted to see if we could have money kind of budget and then maybe it will come from that budget yes yes that that was a dis mini discussion that we had and because we do at this time it really isn't our budget to determine is there is there a line item for the historic preservation I believe the advisory boards have a line item in the city clerk's budget I know Riverwatch task force has a budget uh does anybody else have a budget School support and Centennial yeah so um it's a possibility well we we at this point we have nothing to ask for so you know but definitely and I can see that we're going to be doing quite a few things where we talk about it at one meeting and then you know we we don't make a decision but I'm more than happy to bring it up again at a later time so of course as long as the uh Deputy city clerk Keeps Us straight we'll be fine on that thank you for doing that all right so uh we have an agenda item for the next meeting which is our website and who will be bringing that to us yeah I imagine unless there's something else you want to add to it I mean we can talk about the website and the Outreach when we can we'll have a better uh indication of when we'll be able to get that together I'm hoping by the end of May I think that would be good before summer starts you know that would give us enough time to put a presentation together and to invite you know for the Outreach yes okay before summer gets up and running if that's amable to you all hearing any discussion not hearing any discussion this is such a quiet board um thank you I think that would be great if you can look at at it and if it's appropriate to put it on the agenda please do so okay um you know I don't want to say You must come back to us in a month so I I would like for it to be you know open-ended somewhat if if it's not prepared if you're not ready then don't put it on the agenda unless you just want to tell us where you are that would be great that too okay all right all right any other comments ideas we're such a wonderful group mayor are you oh yes is there anything on um next month's agenda that you would like me to discuss further and in more detail regarding historic preservation I myself don't have any if if you do think of one please send it to Deputy clerk uh so that you can know what we're thinking because it's very possible that somebody will think of something as they driving around Temple Terrace or read something in about another city I know I anytime I'm anytime anything about that is comes up I'm now reading the entire article because I feel like I need to know what someone else is doing you know so yeah if there's anything else you want to discuss further I'm more than and welcome willing to so everybody understands the way to do that correct just send it directly to the deputy okay all right anyone in the audience have anything they would like to say chair I have one more thing yes sir chime in with um perhaps in the next meeting or one in the future I'll um kind of talk a little bit about the Motions you would be doing VI a motion to Grant motion to deny yes and I'll also provide a provide some scripts you guys won't have to do this cold I will create some scripts for you to deal with certificate of appropriateness uh the tax exemption uh the variances all that that'll help you out so don't think you have to wing it I'll try you know make sure you got some scripts in front of you I'm not sure how quickly I can get to them but I guarantee you will have them before your first case that and that's really all we could hope for and so would the applicants they're going to want to know that we have our Arsenal intact yes thank you okay anything else I have no no anyone anyone no no all right well we are adjourned at it looks like 5:45 thank you [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] hello I'm Ernie --------- e e good afternoon everybody welcome on this beautiful sunshiny uh Florida day hey without the rain we wouldn't have any oranges right so we're happy to have it I'll call this meeting to order thank you for being in attendance uh the first order of business is to approve the minutes that have been mailed to each of you are there any recommendations for changes hearing none do we consider the minutes approved yes you're here thank you all right we do have a special guest here yes would you like a vote a motion yes a motion okay we'll we'll do that okay last time I did that and everybody looked at me like oh that's not necessary so I thought I'll try it this way okay all right so I do need a motion to approve motion to approve and a second please second you going to do both I'll do it I do have a motion and a second all oo all in favor of approving the minutes please say I any opposed thank you Mr Ernie I appreciate that very much uh we do have a special guest in the house uh mayor Ross is here and so before we get on to our other business we'd like to invite him to approach the podium from that side of the de good evening board members and I am neither special nor a guest but I'm happy to be here and so i' ALS again I just want to thank you for your service uh to the city uh I personally appreciate it uh the staff appreciates it and the entire city council appreciates it so thank you again I do have a um subject I'd like to bring to you for your consideration um we uh as you I'm sure you probably know if not you're going to hear we are u in the process or we did probably today apply for the certified local government designation that process takes some time um and during that interim I understand that tonight kind of concludes the training process or some of the some of that and so after tonight there's a there's kind of a lag until we get the CLG and so um I would offer this idea for your consideration as something productive that we could really be a benefit to do during that lag um I would like to ask you um if you would consider having a hosting and Outreach meeting perhaps at L foot like we did when we were considering this program to begin with and uh for you as as a board to kind of take the lead in this but in conjunction with City staff to invite certain members of the public and obviously it would be open to anybody but there might be specific people that you would want to reach out to and invite um the city staff would prepare a u b of a slideshow perhaps or a bit of a presentation um we could perhaps have some of the success stories that we heard from Tampa and some of the examples of the projects that they've done and how this has been a benefit to both the property owner the neighbors the city the value increase those kinds of things um and for you guys to kind of be on hand to field any questions or mingle or encourage or arm twist or whatever we can do um but also to get some Fe feedback too about you know what would be meaningful for you to want to enroll in this um aside from the property tax incentives you know we're talking about the plaques and we're talking about different designations to maybe hear from the property owners you to hear from the property owners to say you know what what would be meaningful to you and what are your fears and you know can we talk about this and so the last time we've really engaged a public like this was when we were considering the ordinance and um anytime you do something like this no matter whether it's historical or roads or Parks it doesn't matter there's always a fear element you know people are always hesitant about what could happen I mean what what's the worst thing that could happen and that's what's going to happen and so um perhaps this would be an opportunity for you to kind of elay some of those fears and for staff to kind of educate people so um I'm not asking you to take another special event on on your own but our city staff would certainly be walking with you hand in hand but that seems to me like a good project a good Endeavor to maybe take in this interval so and that's all I have unless you have something for me Madam chair no any questions no questions hello so I'm I'm very easy to find I'm always around so if something comes up that you uh concerns or you know on on his short preservation or anything else always feel free to call me I'm sure everybody's got my phone number so um I'm very accessible so if something comes up don't get don't jump on social media and rant you know and and uh you know please give us a chance to straighten it out or call us or you know usually there's a story as you know you've did this for a long time so uh we're happy to help with whatever comes up and usually we can resolve it so but there's no retract button on Facebook so okay thank you very much again for your service thank you Mr Mayor uh well we have a request before us but what do you all think you how do you are we willing to entertain this event certainly I think so I say yes I think it's important you know at this stage they kind of had a discovery meeting where they were gauging interests and now that the CLG has been applied for I think it's a good time to do it again I do too I do too um do you have a timeline or it sounds to me like this we're very agreeable we're more than happy and of course he said the magic words that staff would be oh managing this event I'm trying to think timeline uh probably just enough public notice so that people can plan to come to this event uh then we would need to prepare uh the mayor said he wouldd like to hear some you know success story so just thinking perhaps maybe we can invite uh preservation planner from either Plant City or uh Tampa to come and attend this and perhaps share some success stories and why it works for them that of course would depend on their availability so I'm I don't know trying to work through this how long it would take any couple months I I was just going to say this doesn't sound like a springtime event this is definitely either summer or early fall before we could get all of the players in place to Be an Effective Workshop exactly yeah so more there's more to come more to come yes okay well as you can see group is agreeable so I don't think we have to vote on something like this I think we've all said you know we're willing to participate and be more than happy to help however we can okay all right all right we'll move along we have a PowerPoint presentation from our Deputy City attorney thank you sir the man behind the curtain the man behind the curtain okay I'm Ernie Mueller from the legal department and today we are going to briefly discuss the legal Basics behind variances pursuant to the temple terce city code variances from specifically enumerated provisions of the Land Development code can only be granted when an applicant has demonstrated that a literal enforcement of that provision will result in an undue and unnecessary hardship and that the variance request ensures that the public public health safety and general welfare are protected unnecessary hardship has generally been defined as a non- self-created characteristic of the property in question which renders it virtually impossible to use the land for the purpose or in the manner for chair while we're waiting um on that last item did you want to put that like on unfinished business that would come up on a future agenda the uh idea of the uh Outreach that's so it doesn't get kind of yes yes thank you very much hello I'm Ernie Mueller from the legal department and today we are going to briefly discuss the legal Basics behind variances pursuant to the Temple Terrace city code variances from specifically enumerated provisions of the Land Development code can only be granted when an applicant has demonstrated that a literal enforcement of that provision will result in an undue and unnecessary hardship and that the variance request ensures that the public health safety and general welfare are protected unnecessary hardship has generally been defined as a non- self-created characteristic of the property in question which renders it virtually impossible to use the land for the purpose or in the manner for which it is zoned practically speaking especially for variances on residential property this means when the code as applied unreasonably denies the property owner of the ability to use the property for a permitted use as others in the same zoning District are generally able to do and this is due to a unique circumstance or condition of the land first we have to note that again this is only hardships as to the land I need extra storage space I want a greenhouse where we have a growing family are not a condition of the land and these cannot justify a variance when considering whether what the applicant wants is something reasonable we can look to the surrounding Community for example does everyone have a pool but because the applicant has a triangle-shaped lot while everyone else has rectangular Lots is the applicant unable to have a pool in that scenario there would be a hardship and a variance would be appropriate this is actually an example from case law in laying versus Zoning Board of adjustment the applicant wanted an inground pool that would be 35 ft long and 18 ft wide which was the minimum siiz pool that could accommodate a diving board it was a typical sized pool for the area but the applicant could not fit it on the property without a setback reduction because the location of the existing garage and driveway made it impossible to move the pool any closer to the North the court found that this met the hardship requirement keep in mind though if the pool had not been a typical size for the area or if had not been the minimum size pool for the diving board or if the pool could have been placed Elsewhere on the property the court may not have found a hardship let's consider another scenario what if everyone in the area has rectangular Lots including the applicant but no one is able to fit a pool let's say also the applicant wants this pool for physical therapy in this case a variance is not justified the applicant wants a use that no one else has a unique desire does not justify a variance only a unique condition of the property some classic examples of when variances are Justified include exceptionally narrow or shallow Lots unusually shaped lots for example a triangular corner lot exceptional topography conditions if they are on a steep slope are there trees on the property extraordinary situations with a structure or building all of which are not common to the other properties in the same zoning District or vicinity something unique about the property is required to establish the need for a variance this brings us to another example from the case law in Waltman versus town of Yarmouth there was a large area all with undersized Lots the setbacks made the Lots impossible to develop but this was true for all the Lots in the entire subdivision here there was no unnecessary hardship where the hardship was not unique but was one common to the general condition of the neighborhood when everyone wants something but no one can fit it relief must come from city council changing the code not the board if a 100 properties have the same problem relief should come from the way of a zoning code change not a 100 variances along those lines common illegal structures will not justify a variance for example if everyone has built an illegal carport that will not justify the applicant also having a carport variances are only Justified when everyone else can legally have a structure or use but this applicant because of a unique property characterist IC cannot achieve the same structure or use also what if the neighbor got a variance granting one variance does not guarantee granting another but identical situations should be treated identically so if a neighbor got a front yard setback variance but it was due to a Grand Tree in the rear of the property and the applicant does not have the same condition of trying to save a grand tree the variance should be denied on the other hand what if the front yard setback reduction was due to a canal that also affects this neighbor in the same way now a variance May well be justified some rules from the case law are a hardship cannot be self-created if the owner did something to cause this problem that is not a hardship the hardship cannot be one of mere economic disadvantage manage many people ask for a variance because of the expense of tearing down an illegal addition this is never a hardship the hardship cannot be personal it must be related to the land that is because all variances run with the land and because all variances run with the land an approval of a variance for a time period is not appropriate all subsequent owners will enjoy the same variance for the same reason it does not matter that the current owner bought the land in a triangle shape knowing that it would be difficult to develop that prior owner would have also had that issue however if the owner buys a property wanting to use it for something unique fully knowing the property cannot support that use that is a self-created hardship that would not warrant a variance here are two examples to help illustrate first a property owner buys a triangle lot that cannot fit a reasonably sized home the lot cannot fit a house similar in size or slightly smaller than those found in the neighborhood this is a hardship created by the property that runs with the land a variance would be warranted to allow a house to be constructed on the property however let's consider a second example if a property owner bought a rectangular lot that could only fit a reasonably sized house similar to the neighborhood and a small pool similar to the neighborhood but now needs a variance to build a five-car garage which nobody else in the neighborhood would have room for either this person has simply purchased the wrong property a variance is not justified likewise if they asked for a variance for the garage for just a few years until they can move their cars this would absolutely not warrant a variance now that we have reviewed the general rules for variances let's go back to the city's Land Development code which we said requires that the board find that the applicant has shown there exists an unnecessary hardship and that the request ensures the public health safety and general welfare will be protected the burden is on the applicant to make these showings through competent and substantial evidence let's talk about the level of evidence that the applicant needs to demonstrate evidence is only competent if the witness is qualified to offer it the evidence should be from personal knowledge in addition lay Witnesses like the owner of the property or neighbors may only offer fact-based testimony for example if a witness testifies that the area has traffic problems that is a l opinion and is not competent however if a witness testifies that there were three traffic accidents with fatalities at this intersection last year that is fact-based testimony and is competent evidence opinions can be competent but only if they are offered by an expert in their field of expertise some examples would be an arborist could offer opinion testimony about a tree's health or whether it could be pruned but could not offer testimony about the value of the property only a witness qualified to offer property values such as a property appraiser may offer opinions of whether something will increase or decrease property value similarly only a transportation expert may offer opinion testimony on traffic safety but note that a neighbor could offer fact-based testimony that when they pull up to a particular intersection that they cannot see traffic due to an obstruction other examples of testimony that would not be competent is subjective preferences such as nobody in our neighborhood wants this or assumptions such as I am sure they will park on the streets and not the driveway you may often hear that neighbors are in support or hear from Neighbors that are against variances whether a neighbor is for or against the variance request Falls within the Ambit of opinion and is irrelevant again you should focus on only the evidence given so the board is looking for this competent substantial evidence to determine whether there is an unnecessary hardship to Warrant a variance and whether the request ensures that the public health safety and general welfare will be protected to guide these core required findings the city's Land Development code provides nine variance criteria for the board to consider for each variance request all nine criteria must be considered though the individual variances might turn on only a couple of the criteria the first criteria are a there are extraordinary and exceptional conditions pertaining to the particular piece of property in question because of its size shape or topography B the application of the provisions of the city's Land Development code to the particular piece of property would create an unnecessary and undue hardship which is not suffered in common with other properties structures or buildings in the same neighborhood and and C such conditions are peculiar to the particular piece of property involved these criteria focus on the uniqueness of the property or a condition thereon that the strict application of the city's Land Development code would cause a hardship not suffered in common with other properties the next two criteria are D relief if granted would not cause substantial detriment to the public good or impair the purposes and intent of the city's Land Development code and the Temple Terrace comprehensive plan and e no variance shall be granted for a use of land or building or structure which is not otherwise permitted by the city's Land Development code these two criteria focus on the impact of the variance requests to neighbors and the public as well as consistent y with the city's Land Development code in comprehensive plan as stated earlier neighbors May testify they are or are not in support of the variant request which would fall under the lay opinion testimony however the board may ask questions such as will the variance request be compatible with or change the character of the neighborhood will the project increase noise or flooding one thing to keep in mind with regard to consistency with the city code requirements is that any structures Allowed by the granting of a variance will still be reviewed against the city's building code and Fire Safety Code so you do not need to worry whether those codes will be met City staff will ensure that they are the sixth criteria is f any variance granted shall be the minimum variance which makes possible the reasonable use of the land buildings or property any variance from the city's Land Development code should not be more than necessary to allow the project for example most if not all variances are and should be granted in accordance with the site plan presented at the public hearing shown is a property and the principal structure setbacks let's suppose that someone shows a structure on the site plan that ENC enes 3 ft into the sidey yard setback if the variance is granted to allow the structure to encroach 3 ft into the sidey setback the property owner could encroach 3 ft along the entire sidey yard setback however tying the variants to the site plan presented at the public hearing will restrict the 3 ft encroachment into the sidey yard to that part of the structure shown encroaching on the site plan it would prevent the property owner from encroaching 3 feet along the entire sidey the seventh criteria is G the special conditions and circumstances do not result from the actions of the applicant this ensures that the hardship was not caused by the property owner so what are some examples of a self-created hardship if the property owner enclosed the carport to build another room but now wants to build an accessory garage or another carport but cannot do so without encroaching into the setbacks that is a self-created hardship if the property owner built an addition to the home but now wants a pool with a deck and bird cage but the pool cannot be placed in accordance with the city's Land Development code because of that addition that is a self-created hardship attempting to use land Beyond its means is a self-created hardship overbuilding for any reason is not a hardship the cost of demolishing rebuilding or modifying an illegally built structure is always a self-created hardship this is a good place to discuss how the board would handle a situation where the applicant has already built a structure that required a variance would this be a self-created hardship that would warrant the denial of the variance request no in this situation you must consider the variance as if the structure that needs the variance was not there the final two criteria are H granting the variance requested will not confer on the applicant any special privilege that is denied by the city's Land Development code to other lands structures or buildings in the same district or neighborhood and I allowing the variance will result in substantial Justice being done considering both the public benefits intended to be secured by the city's Land Development code and the hardship that will be suffered due to denial of the variant these criteria focus on striking a balance between the property rights of the property owner with the interests of the neighborhood and public at large so remember there should be something unique about the property not the individual or what they want to do generally you are looking for something unusual about the lot or its location a triangular lot Tree location unusually narrow lot compared to District standards if the entire neighborhood has the same hardship there is no uniqueness to justify a variance building IL legally or overbuilding are not hardships the variance should not cause cause problems for the neighborhood thank you for reviewing the legal basics of variances today you for that any questions no no questions I do have a question and that is uh is this presentation available in print for our notebook uh yeah uh well yes I do have the uh PowerPoint itself I can have it all sent to you okay or actually I can probably what you're asking probably asking Jen to place it in the folder if you could provide us with that that would be great thank you so no questions it's interesting I was thinking back to quite a few variances I've listened to me too we won't go into that not the right place okay we're moving yes yes please I am curious if someone comes before the board requesting a variance you said it's incumbent upon them to come with evidence or expert testimony um so if if they get to us they should have all of that in place and if they don't we just say I'm sorry you don't have enough evidence to support your request or right if that were the case if this board you you know if they come forward again they'll have the burden they're the ones that are requesting for this extraordinary remedy uh to allow them to basically violate the code you're giving them permission to violate the code with a variance um so the burdens on them to present the evidence that satisfies this board that a variance would be justified if you if this board does not feel that there's been enough evidence there's a couple of ways to go the uh um you know there could be a continuance to allow that applicant to gather that information if for you know if you guys feel for some reason it would have been difficult for them to do that um and again in that type of situation just remember whenever an application is in front of you for a variant or anything along you know that that you're here to to provide the applicant always has the right to have that application voted up or down that night it's up to them to ask for the continu you know the board on its own wouldn't be able to say let's continue this and then you move to continue it blah blah blah so it'll always be the F the decision of the applicant on that um so kind of the final way is if you feel there is no not insufficient evidence to Warrant then it would be you know you'd move to deny that variance now we are not taking the place of the code board so we're not going to be getting variance requests for things that are your normal requests we're only going to be getting historic nature correct actually probably better stated yeah if most you know variants requests if they're not his going to be on a historic property or someone that's applied to have their uh property designated as historic would go to the board of adjustment they do the normal uh variance requests yeah you would the board would only be getting those variance requests that are associated with uh basically a a project that someone's doing on their historic property that they're going to need permission from you from to do and usually it'll come in this in in the form of a of of an addition on the property or something along that lines one thing I as I was listening to that I thought I might want to explain a little better um Brian are you able to go to slide 15 which showed the diagram of right I put my mic on they're working on it they're trying to find it I want to kind of explain the setbacks I noticed in a couple of places I said they can't you know if they want to put a house on but it won't fit it almost I could tell it almost made it sound like it wouldn't fit on the property fit on the property so let me explain that and what you know really where where you guys will have requests for variances which is this concept of called the setback it shows a structure on the site thank you all right as you can see the green outlines is really the property uh line all right and then if you take let's call the bottom of this uh picture being the front yard and the top being the rear yard then of course we got our side yards the city has developed through its Land Development code setbacks meaning you know you can't build in these areas and usually your front yard setback runs somewhere between 15 to 25 ft so the house is kind of set back away from the street you'll have sidey yards set back so that everybody isn't on top of each other and usually that's for you know fire safety reasons stuff like that and then of course you have your rear yard setback so that gray area is What's called the buildable area that's all within those setbacks so this picture show someone was wanting to do something that would encroach into that sidey yard setback and that's where you're going to be getting probably 90% of your requests for variances they're either going to want to go into that rear yard setback sidey yard setback and in rare occasions they may need to push something forward because there's something perhaps in the backyard as that as the uh PowerPoint kind of tried to explain sometimes someone might have to push something forward is that any clearer did I as far as kind of setbacks how setbacks work and where you know people would be wanting a variance with regard to the setbacks yeah it's clear I'm just having trouble thinking about a kind of concrete example of like a his the an additional historical kind of element to the requesting a variance cuz the the building itself wouldn't create a condition related to the property or or would it the fact that the building being an existing building yeah sometimes okay I mean that's been I think if if I understood the Outreach last time we did it there was a little bit of concern that sometimes you know the historic houses are already non not conforming to Our Land Development code so there may be issues there especially you know and if someone wants to extend somewhere what I might what I will try and do is look for some look at the city of Tampa uh Arc and BLC if you remember we talk the Architectural Review commission and see if I can find some where they talk about variances as it's related to a historic Pro uh property and then I can uh ask if you know Jen or someone to send those I'll get some links and send that to you um and that maybe you can kind of see it in action it's always easier to see in action rather than trying to imagine how this that' be help thank you any other questions no a lot to digest and I'm sure yeah they won't don't expect you to know it right away that's what these training sessions are for right and everything coming before us will have gone through some process to get here meaning the staff will have yeah done some vetting on it and stuff like that okay well thank you very much any other questions hearing none we'll move on to discussion on incentives so I just listed a couple of things um these were things that we talked about with Council and I will um go over them with you see what you think uh the first one of course the incentive is it's voluntary and nobody's going to put gun to your head to make you do this this is just a benefit to you if you so choose um designating a historic property both locally or in the National register is a prestigious honor and officially recognizes the historic or architectural significance of the property studies commissioned by the Florida Department of State found that designation of a historic property improves marketability and increases property values now this one we talked about application fees but um and I went over this with uh the community development director and our Deputy City attorney about the application fees we considered waving the fees but there are no fees we have not put any fees in place so there's nothing to wave so for a certain time period there's no charge you can just apply and at some point we'll have to come up with a fee schedule to be to go before c through resolution but until that time no charge and in looking at what other cities um charge or don't charge there are some that actually don't charge they've decided not to charge at all and then other fees go up to about $300 but that does not include of course the building permit that's separate so your your application for designation or your certificate of appropriateness no charge and as Mr Fernandez explained uh at the last meeting there's also access to financial incentives ad Valor tax exemptions on historic property improvements for 10 years and this would be fun a photo display of enrolled properties on our website so um anybody who comes into the program their property will go on the website with the history of the property and um um a nice picture and I'm I'm sure that will be you know a wonderful addition to our website and then um Marissa is going to talk about this last one it's about bronze markers which we have talked about before but she's going to go into a little bit more detail good evening everyone um I did leave a copy of the city of Tampa's bronze markers that they um provide for their historic landmarks and their historic properties um we are contemplating something that would be similar to this that would be mounted onto the facade front facade of the house um at this time though um we spoke with the marketing department and we've decided to wait until after the flag contest is complete to design the markers so once the flag competition is completed and we have picked a new City flag then we will will go back and design our U historic markers and so hoping that we can um coordinate something to resemble the flag so and we're hoping that these will be free as well they will be of no charge to the applicants so any questions on that okay okay oh no no I mean oh sorry so if it's free do we have an idea what this will cost the city to do City at Tampa charges $174 and that covers the cost of this bronze black and nothing else so why are we considering it to be free just as an incentive as again we can go back and we can create a fee schedule and add a fee to this um incentive I'm not opposed to it being fore I just since it does have a a it's not like it's $10 plaque it's you know hundred and some dollars plus installation or whatever so I just wondered what what the idea was I like the idea that to incentivize it which makes a big deal yeah and it will be the rare exception for someone to have it yes just to add uh by the time we get up and moving it's going to be you know a couple months out uh it's possible if you wanted to uh offer these to put this in a budget to present to the city manager to give to council however many do you think that you would need we can make that request okay that's that's probably a good way to do it so that we we know it's covered and then the city could always say well we're going to suspend the fee at this time or until we get the program up and running and everyone wants one right yes okay thank you very much thanks for bringing this and these are at in Tampa I take it yeah um yes ma'am didn't we talked about the budget for our board I think we mentioned you mentioned that you wanted to see if we could have money what kind of budget and then maybe it'll come from that budget yes yes that that was a dis mini discussion that we had and because we do at this time it really isn't our budget to determine is there is there a line item for the historic preservation I believe the advisory boards have a line item in the city clerk's budget I know Riverwatch taskforce has a budget uh does anybody else have a budget School support and Centennial yeah so um it's a possibility okay well we we at this point we have nothing to ask for so you know but definitely and I can see that we're going to be doing quite a few things where we talk about it at one meeting and then you know we we don't make a decision but I'm more than happy to bring it up again at a later time so of course as long as the uh Deputy city clerk Keeps Us straight we'll be fine on that thank you for doing that all right so uh we have an agenda item for the the next meeting which is our website and who will be bringing that to us yeah I imagine unless there's something else you want to add to it I mean we can talk about the website and the Outreach when we can we'll have a better uh indication of when we'll be able to get that together I'm hoping by the end of May I think that would be good before summer starts you know that would give us enough time to put a presentation together and to invite you know for the Outreach yes okay before summer gets up and running if that's amable to you all hearing any discussion not hearing any discussion this is such a quiet board um thank you I think that would be great if you can look at at it and if it's appropriate to put it on the agenda please do so okay um you know I don't want to say You must come back to in a month so I I would like for it to be you know open-ended somewhat if if it's not prepared if you're not ready then don't put it on the agenda unless you just want to tell us where you are that would be great do that too okay all right all right any other comments ideas we're such a wonderful group mayor are you oh yes is there anything on um next month's agenda that you would like me to discuss further or in more detail regarding historic [Music] preservation I myself don't have any if if you do think of one please send it to Deputy Clerk and so that you can know what we're thinking because it's very possible that somebody will think of something as they driving around Temple Terrace or read something in about another city I know I anytime I'm anytime anything about that is comes up I'm now reading the entire article because I feel like I need to know what someone else is doing you know so yeah if there's anything else you want to discuss further I'm more than welcome or willing to so and everybody understands the way to do that correct just send it directly to the deputy okay all right anyone in the audience have anything they would like to say chair I have one more thing sir chime in with um perhaps in the next meeting or one in the future I'll um kind of talk a little bit about the Motions you would be doing be it a motion to Grant a motion to deny yes and I'll also provide uh provide some scripts you guys won't have to do this cold I will create some scripts for you to deal with certificate of appropriateness uh the tax exemption uh the variances all that that'll help you out so don't think you have to wing it I'll try you know make sure that you got some scripts in front of you I'm not sure how quickly I can get to them but but I guarantee you will have them before your first case that and that's really all we could hope for right and so would the applicants they're going to want to know that we have our Arsenal intact yes thank you okay anything else I have no no anyone anyone no no all right well we are adjourned at at looks like 545 thank you [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] hello I'm Ernie