##VIDEO ID:KbCqYx2eaNo## e e e e e e e e the all right um good evening um welcome to the Titus schille environmental commission um we're glad you're here and um I guess we'll start with roll call chairwoman Thompson here Vice chairman maack member Tucker here member Perez here member Delgado here member fiss here alternate member young here alternate member COI all right thank you Lori so we we got a quorum um now we're going to stand for the Pledge of Allegiance please United States andice all right next on the agenda is approval of the minutes um you guys had a chance to look them over somebody want to make a motion to approve motion to approve the minutes second all right a motion was made by member Perez and seconded by member Tucker does anybody have anything they want to see changed or anything I I thought they look really good as usual um Lori does a great job you guys okay with him all right all those in favor of of the minutes with no changes say I I I any opposed okay the minutes pass unanimously um let's move on to petitions and requests from the public present and um what I want to say I want to reiterate that there's going to be plenty of opportunity for the public to participate in the discussion of this fabulous um study that that we're going to be talking about tonight so you don't need to talk about that if you want to talk under petitions and requests and you know while while I'm on a roll here um you know anybody that wants to speak they can speak for five minutes um I would like for the committee members to please hold your questions and then let allow everybody opportunity to speak for five minutes and then after that's done when we go into the committee discussion then you guys are welcome to call anybody back up to the mic that you would like to and I think that will help us move the meeting along a lot faster so we're moving on to petitions and requests does anybody want to talk about non-agenda items hey Tony Tony shiff the historic Norwood house I'm just here tonight because I was here last night I think I live here um I just wanted to say that the meeting last night there were two things on council's agenda about the Tec and they both had um were met with a lot of questions and fortunately two of your members were there last night your chair and and Mr Perez were there to field any questions and I think it's very important that when things come up before the city council that y'all be there because they don't really understand what you do or who you are and what happened last night I just want to congratulate you on finally getting to be in charge of tre City USA it is now in your job description and I do hope that we can go to town with It Go Tec go thank you yeah we became relevant last night somewhat anybody else still hello St Bailey poort St John Florida um at the recent city council meeting on Tuesday September 10th 2024 we had a council member who advocated for taxpayers to hire a public information officer she emphasize the need to address the city's negative image regarding water quality particularly in the light of a Rec recent settlement involving a child who was paralyzed after swimming in the lagoon following a significant sewage spill in 20 20 2021 numerous residents voiced their concerns during that 7.2 million gallon sewage spill including members of this board urging the council to put up a warning signs put their but their requests were ignored it's no surpris people are hesitant to raise their voices about environmental problems in this city and reach out to their representatives instead of using those funds to Li it to live stream this Titusville environmental commission meeting they prefer to spend tax money on hiring someone to promote their image making them look good instead of just doing what is right if they were seeking a public information officer to enhance education about the environment and informed citizens that would be one matter for years residents have urged the council to live stream these meetings by the way they're not posted which ones are Liv streamed on the website we don't know which ones are live streams which ones aren't but their pleas often go ignored with only a few meetings being broadcast an audio technician is already managing the sound for the meetings that aren't stream so adding video really wouldn't be a challenge the city council's proposal to promote propaganda is disheartening as it detracts from the Tec board's opportunity to engage with the community on water and environmental matters and to suggest meaningful projects rather than just spending taxpayer money to justify pass mistakes I believe this proposal will only further harm the city's image similar to the decisions to spend $165,000 to sue the citizens failing to quickly post signs and send notices after sewage spells suggesting planting a fake plants having a survey that showed only 1% of the Community Trust the drinking water trying to convince community that they weren't seeing or smelling pollution under a million dooll walkway and now prolonging the situation for this poor family of a paralyzed Child by downplaying their struggles in what way does investing in appearances truly benefit the residents of Titusville could this be seen as a tactic to Aid candidates in their re-election efforts instead of attempting to alter the narrative the council should concentrate on enhancing this board right here which serves as an outstanding educational resource it is Rich with presentations and valuable information and features experts and community members who are dedicated to clean water this proposal could come up this coming Thursday during the city's budget hearing on September 12th 2024 I urge this board members in this room anybody in the the community to question whether this is a wise use of taxpayer funds in an election year instead suggest a more effective solution that benefits the community by putting those funds to live stream every single one of these meetings and support real environmental projects rather than merely maintaining appearances thank you thank you anyone else want to speak under petitions and requests okay we have no old business so we're going to move on to new business um um I I just want to say that the report that you guys did I know you worked hard on it it it's outstanding I think it's really really good and I like how you made it readable for people like me you know it it's easy to read it's it's easy to understand there's I I do have some comments about the um the grid where you show all of the all the different um I think it's um the um recommendations we'll talk about that but it it I think you did a wonderful job and you worked really hard and a lot of people from the community got involved and I'm very very proud of the product um so I guess it's up to yall to tell us about it tell the TV audience all two of them about it good evening Madam chair members of the commission Chris D uh the project manager with Inspire placemaking Collective thank you for having us back uh to to take you through the final report or the draft of the final report um I have with me this evening uh Dr J exom he is with exem and Associates he's uh as you all know part of the the team and and participated and all the public engagement and and helped with uh preparing the the report as well as Gabby Castro she was our Deputy project manager on this and uh helped us and and was in every one of those meetings along the way um so do I have the presentation oh is it behind me oh oh okay here we go excellent okay so tonight I'm just going to take you through the the whole project and tell you how we got here um after going through all the public engag engagement and what you're going to find in the report and how we organized the report um as you know the the purpose of this project was to evaluate the concerns and the goals of the community based on the natural resources so we had the Titusville tomorrow comprehensive Plan update we kind of had to pull back a little bit on that when we went through that process the city did and so they they wanted to make a concerted effort to go through this process in a much bigger scale which is what our charge was um so these what you find in the report are recommended strategies based on that Community engagement that we went through over the the last several months uh this is the uh the timeline uh we kicked this off in in March we had interview sessions uh we had our open house in May uh we had our Tec Workshop we had some really good attendance you know we we didn't have a tremendous uh uh response you know from any one given uh engagement but I think the sum of the total was um really uh high quality involvement um and then of course we're here today and um at the the I guess the the final um report presentation to give you an idea of where everything's um where it's at and where we're headed because this is kind of the beginning really um of what to do next okay we had our project website that's where you uh the folks could U participate in the online survey we had the idea wall where folks could share ideas without you know the constraints of of a survey um we also uh provided the timeline of events and then uh provided updates on when we were going to hold the open house and the workshops and so forth and that is the the website still active but the the survey is closed is the idea wall closed as well I'm not sure I might still be open okay but the survey is closed because we have to at some point kind of put it into so that we can provide the the results to the community and so we did we had 83 responses to the survey not as high as we would want um but uh we'll take all the input that we can get so what did we find out and these are just kind of Snippets that uh you'll see in the report uh so we ask folks do you think the city does enough to uh sufficiently protect natural resources and as you can see there overwhelmingly uh uh no was the response um and then we kind of asked the followup so what are those priorities then if um that you would like to see the the the city improve upon so the sewage spills as we heard this evening that was uh one of the top responses clear cutting of development um and then the water quality of the Indian River lagon Lagoon uh the top initiatives that uh uh folks would like to see the the city prioritized number one conservation land and wildlife habitat acquisition improving treatment and disposal of Wastewater fluent Wetland protection number number four tree preservation or tree protection and then number five low impact development methods and that's related to storm water management uh when we ask folks uh about uh whether or not they felt like the city should provide for more stringent Wetland protections over and above what The Water Management District requires overwhelmingly uh the respondent said yes so uh what's that almost 68% uh we asked folks to to tell us what projects so if we were to you know give them a pile of money how much should we then prioritize in terms of funding in the next 10 to 20 years um overwhelmingly the the number one response were projects related to to uh improving the water quality of the Indian River Lagoon so that was number one uh number two again these kind of correlate to the prior questions again kind of confirming what uh that prior question asked Wildlife uh conservation Wetlands protection tree canopy uh what else here um and I can't see the last two there conservation and uh land acquisition and flood plane protection okay so where did this lead us they it it led us to several categories kind of as we started to learn more and more about what the community uh was looking for in terms of protection of Natural Resources the first one was water quality and Indian River Lagoon so if you joined us for the open house you'll notice that we synthesized this information into these categories that we then asked folks to tell us what kinds of strategies that we should uh evaluate for the the recommendations in this report and so that we were asking the community to help us build this plan because this is this plan is for the community we we are responding to the community's needs uh land acquisition and conservation tree canopy and tree preservation wetlands and flood PLS regulations and then finally aging infrastructure so those are those were the top five synthesized categories based on what we heard through the public engagement process and all of this should be kind of follow along with what you all saw uh during our workshops and our open houses okay so I'm not going to go into each one of these strategies because they kind of repeat if you follow along with the recommendations but this is kind these are a list of what we talked about during the open house uh with respect to uh water quality in Indian River Lagoon again being very transparent about how we get to the final outcome of the report so these are the topics we discussed during uh the workshop related to tr Tre canopy and preservation again we're going to talk a little bit more about these topics when we get to the recommendations aging infrastructure land acquisition and conservation and then Wetland and flood plant regulation again just to give you an idea what came up during those um public engagement exercises okay so what does the report look like it's organized into four uh main sections of course the executive summary we have the summary of public engagement which I essentially just gave you that full summary and then the topics and the findings so those five synthesized categories and then the recommendations the recommendations are that the big table that's organized by the the strategies to consider what the implementation may look like for implementing that strategy future considerations and that may be related to what types of resources the city may need to um investigate or employ as part of that uh strategy so in other words maybe it's um hiring more folks or hiring the right kind of folks to let's say uh Implement uh additional Wetlands uh outside of what or Wetland regulations pardon me outside of what the district requires um comprehensive plan policies this strategy may impact and then how that that strategy correlates with the sustainability action plan and whether or not we think that the the action plan should be updated to incorporate some of those strategy okay so again this is organized by those topic areas that we talked about the first being advancing um the Indian River Lagoon storm water quality and uh quantity improvements so what does that mean um we want to continue to prioritize funding and seeking grant funding for um implementing those projects we've got projects that we've uh we've gotten funding from sorl continue to push that um also you know we want more funding for those projects and how do we you know continue to push the sales tax if we can we know it's coming up you know U it's going to sunset here soon can we renew that and and have another slate of projects through that that funding apparatus and then examining the feasibility of establishing additional storm water parks we know that storm water capacity is is an issue not just the quality but also you know from a flooding standpoint and we're going to need that I mean we've got some uh you know issues we're going to have to deal with with resiliency and sea level rise and so these things all kind of uh work hand inand with each other um and then prioritizing funding for uh Shoreline restoration we talked about City own property along uh the river and and maybe reestablishing some of the Aquatic species and and and so forth um you know to help kind of uh Shore up the the shoreline and then continue to implement and promote uh the certification program uh with respect to fertilizing Lawns okay the next uh section these are all colorcoded so the first one's blue and next one's green kind kind of follow follows along with those uh topic areas but uh this is preparing plans to address the city's aging infrastructure again one of those really high prioritized uh issues that we heard from the community this again these are just highlights not meant to go through everyone but if we if we want to sit down and talk about any one of these topics we're happy to discuss and and edit any of these this is again a for your review and uh happy for your feedback and input um conduct conduct testing and evaluate the water quality degradation um the study should include an assessment of the magnitude of the impact um and recommendations for remediation conduct a study to locate assess and identify repairs to all existing waste water lines particularly near surface waters uh establish a priority list of Wastewater line repairs and replacement and then when those lines do break prioritizing emergency communications again this kind of goes back to what we heard uh this evening already uh above and beyond what may be the standard protocol I think is what we talked about here um aggressively seek funding uh opportunities for IR IRL projects again we talked about the sales tax encouraging the county to hopefully reissue that we want to U promote that because once those funds dry up it's it's going to be difficult to to fund the list of recommendations we have in this plan quite frankly um continue to uh pursue grants we already do that here at the city but there are also opportunities for Partnerships um not just Partnerships with your regular agencies that we work with you know at the regional level or the district um but even the cape and others that we we see value and you know coming together because we have a shared resource right it's the Indian River Lagoon and we really need to come together to make this uh you know something that not not a burden that only Titusville is is shouldering which you're not but you know to continue to uh share that burden um develop a land acquisition program with a dedicated funny source that sounds really easy it rolls off the tone but that's going to be that's tricky right um again Partnerships and grants um are really good way to continue to to uh push that the envelope there now again kind of like the the the projects for the Lagoon land acquisition comes with a pretty high price tag uh you know land is not cheap and it's certainly not any cheaper now than it ever was so um again funding is going to be really critical here um evaluating opportunities for that dedicated funding source whether it's assessments impact fees storm water utility fees sales tax you name it I mean there's a number of things that we can uh talk about um we do recognize that there was uh looking at a referendum right for Pur purchasing lands and so yes we need to continue to think about opportunities down the road and then prioritize the acquisition of lands uh identified as areas of critical concern that came up that was a very specific item that came up um with respect to the recharge lands and those being developed on um so if that is the case the city is actively seeking opportunities to maybe purchase those lands that that those are preserved um rather than developed if those you know indeed they're the the high recharge areas of the community we want to protect that take that into your own hands and that's kind of that is the strategy to do that because again those you know those folks have entitlements and right and protecting property property rights when the uh you know they come in and they have those development you maybe not development approvals then but they have those entitlements in place so they have to respect the the property rights um and then update the tree preservation ordinance I know that has um been a topic that you've addressed already but there are opportunities to clarify and strengthen the tree preservation ordinance according to the you know the what we heard from the community so again I think it's a good practice to eval as a board every 5 years look at the the tree preservation ordinance are there um uh practices that maybe the city can employ that maybe are you new Innovative things that we can consider um and maybe it's something like making it a little bit easier for staff to implement um but also um you know providing for additional protections um of the tree canop and then considering um the update of the ordinance and to retain the the sub subcanopy of of the vegetation here in the community and again we have we talked about Tree City USA a little bit uh ago um all very important as part of the tree preservation in the city and then um evaluate the the effectiveness of the fines levied as a result of violations are they not you know stiff enough to um you know keep people from violating the the ordinance okay uh update the Landscaping ordinance these kind of go hand inand uh with uh the tree preservation activities but establish and pursue the funding for an urban forestry plan that's something that's you know already in the work so that's good um we want to make sure we continue to do that and encourage the city to continue to promote that um amend the Land Development regulations uh to require all planting in uh new developments to be identified as Florida friendly that's not required today we want to make sure we do that um evaluate evaluate the ldrs to determine if all uses are achieving the goals of the urban forestry plan so in other words if there are specific uses maybe it's multif family res residential that don't have the same uh Landscaping requirements as maybe uh commercial development why is that we want to make sure that the it's you know um equally lifting up the urban forestry plan across the board so that you have a cohesive you know tree canopy throughout the city okay uh develop or amend existing Wetland policies so here we've got some very specific uh items came directly from TC members as well as the public um having the city evaluate the ldrs to identify opportunities to clarify or strengthen the city's Wetland regulations that may include um expanding the buffers or um you know uh providing for no net loss of Wetlands you know within the city or um again making it very difficult for Wetlands to be impacted um in the city I did mention that the you know the state legislature has looked at you know preempting local governments from this has come back you know time and time again so just we'll keep an eye on that but if if we do in fact want to create you know stricter Wetland regulations that the time is coming pretty soon so we probably should do that very soon if we were looking at a time frame for these um Implement a 1.8% maximum Wetland impact for developments this is something that my colleague had something to do with uh several years ago here in Bard County um that maybe we look at doing that for this Citywide evaluate Wetlands for preservation and pursuit funding to create a plan to prioritize the purchase of wetlands and funding the maintenance as well and then clarify the intent of the five acre rule in the comprehensive plan that is something that uh I think you know one of our very first discussions with City staff that that came up and so we do sounds like there's a loophole in the policy that we need to make sure we clarify that that that 5 acre Wetland is you know connected back to a larger system that that's you know really not up for grabs so to speak and and could be impacted okay um these are the the the last three here uh the green one here is uh increasing public education and uh Outreach through the city the city is doing a lot of things that we found out about you know through this process with with respect to you know Environmental Protection and I think the Community needs to know that um I think uh even as simple as some of the other departments you know outside of planning uh can provide uh additional information to the Tec members and then out to the rest of the public so they understand what types of things and programs that are going on here at the city um because a lot of things that we've talked about tonight the the city is engaging in a lot of these things but they may not be communicating back so uh communication is Big um assessing the impact fees talked about that a little bit um making sure that we're looking at the impact fees on a continual basis to make sure one the fees are are covering the costs right of of the impacts of development and that we are um establishing fees for the right things so uh I know um there some communities had looked at doing impact fees for conservation lands so that's something to think about um and creating a green space master plan so this is really a a great tool to when you start to look at development and they're they're setting aside open space that how does that how does that uh space then connect back to the greater Green Space plan and how those things connect throughout the community that also provides opportunities for Passive Recreation um as well as um you the saving and and preserving um a connected system and could help with you know flood mitigation as well I think we talked about it a little and with that that is the uh a summary of the recommendations of the of the report and we're happy to open it up for discussion yall want to hear cards first or you want to discuss first cards cards first Lori uh Casey l k an Maryland Avenue Titusville tree team had something prepared to say but I'm I'm going to vary it a little up if you don't mind um as environmental Advocates many tree team members appreciated the opportunity to voice our concerns for natural resources through this community engagement so thank you very much for giving us that opportunity um I I believe the intent of this is to is wonderful but having struggled for the last three years to do something that is not even remotely thorny the planting of trees and the preservation of trees these hundreds of recommendations each one is Monumental for our city to even think about considering our Council doesn't even want to consider these things and I I don't know how to get them to consider it I'm hoping you guys will stick around and actually help us convince them that these things need to be done not just provide us with these recommendations that are basically what we've been telling them all along we need some help to do this um because they just want to drag their feet continually it's not just a matter of budget it's just and I don't want to go into it I I do I just am so intent that I want this to move forward and these recommendations to move forward I don't want to Nix it by just saying it can't be done because if somebody were told me that I couldn't get a tree ordinance pass I I would have taken offense to that because by golly we did it's not good enough we just now we're standing in front of council and begging for it to be extended to multif family when it's so obvious that we intended it to go out to all residential and it's discriminatory just if provided for single family I mean we just have to continue to press and press and urge and urge something as simple as just plant trees and preserve trees when it's so obvious that you must keep trees because it's getting hotter and hotter and they reduce storm water just so obvious well some of these things are kind of nitty-gritty getting down into the weeds here that we need to do cost lots of money far more than planting trees so I just want to ask you how do we make this happen how do we make even a small percentage of these things happen that you're recommending you have 10 charts with about 10 recommendations for each chart I spent three hours I just made it through one two charts and then I said well maybe you should just focus on the ones About Trees and Landscaping because that's where in your expertise lies so I jumped over to then I just kept finding all these little like misleading statements for instance we are not in support of Florida friendly Landscaping we certainly don't want to update the comp plan and code to require Florida friendly Landscaping only we're trying to re remove the Florida friendly Landscaping from our ordinance and we've been successful so far so I I just don't I think that's an some s sort of error I'm going to give you some Grace on that but then as far as the tree City we've been just pushing as hard to try to get the city to implement the standards of tre City when we've been a tree City for 23 years and yet they just haven't been willing to do so and yet you're saying here that the city has leveraged their participation in the program to increase the number of trees throughout the city in the 23 years that we've been Tree City USA the city has allowed hundreds and hundreds of Acres of trees to be removed and didn't plant one tree last year despite the tree City's requirements over and over again the community budget that they are required to present says no trees planted no trees planted no trees planted why when we have the Lagoon that provides us7.5 billion dollars annually begging trees to absorb the storm water and the tree team gets our elderly people to come out and plant trees we planted 165 trees free of charge to the county to the city since since 20021 and we continue to maintain them so I really hope that this will be an successful initiative to finally get around to changing and revising the comp plan and regards to the natural resource I I really want it to work because we're work we've been working hard we have people being paralyzed from from paddle boarding and people's feet about have to be amputated because they weighted in the water with a cut on their foot and yet people swimming in there they don't know better so I wish you well I I will participate to the extent that I possibly can to try to make this go forward but um the our mayor coined a phrase paralysis of analysis and I fear that that's what's going to come here when we have such lengthy Report with so many many recommendations I just didn't feel like it was prioritized or summarized sufficiently um maybe one recommendation per chart would have been better helpful but but maybe I'm all wrong I just want to be wrong I want to be wrong and I want I want to see this succeed so please whatever we can do to make it move forward and succeed please consider that thank you thank you Miss zon next uh Jeff Greenberg wow that was passion and this is a passionate concept and I I come before passionate people I've talked to you guys before and I've I've talked to our city council before and what we're getting here is a new world of vision it's like going into you know a poor kid in a candy store and looking at all these bright wonderful ideas that are there and then looking back at reality of being that poor kid back out on the street again too uh I I recognize that um you know six of you um are advisory people wonderful people but you don't have any ultimate decision-making power and that is shown very obviously in the in the city of Titusville uh but a new world is coming and we can be very hopeful that this won't stay the same and we now have some new guidelines and I agree I mean it's it's so comprehensive that it's it's possible that a lot of things we won't get to but some of those and I want to speak just for a couple of those um two things I think that are extremely important and I you probably you recognize that I have been involved in the uh a movement of citizens and volunteers to do storm water testing this in spite of our city council is still alive it's mostly within the county with others we have gained a tremendous number of allies at universities and colle colleges high schools and others this will move on this will not be stonewalled by any kind of political will eventually it's going to happen and we're going to do it legally you know I wasn't there when the city council uh discussed proposal for doing this and then probably a good thing too because I hear it was pretty harsh things were said that they should have been ashamed of but anyway beyond that testing of storm water is extremely important our friend Bill Klein who's not here tonight is extremely passionate about that is it amazing all these old people that are so passionate about these kinds of things you know before we die we would really like to see some improvements and like to see some good things done the other side of this too is and I uh I owe a lot of this to to Laurel's um influence I think is this whole concept of land acquisition we're going to lose all these incredible natural lands within Titusville and nearby if we don't do something it's very very obvious that when you rubber stamp what developers want to do including filling in wetlands and doing other things two There Are Places you should not build I am a environmental scientist I'm a geologist I've been doing this stuff professionally for 50 years and I can tell you there's places you should not build we have plenty of evidence from the engineering from all the other you know all the situations dealing with things like flooding instability of of structures uh you talk to the science and at some point I'm looking forward to science being respected in the city of Titusville so far it hasn't been I think it can be I really really think it can be and I'm glad he's taking notes about this over there too because I think that needs to be conveyed to our city council because I really feel that there are things that could really help and there's a lot of us again that are not official we don't work for the city we don't work for anybody we're not making any money we're volunteers these people you see here and they're passionate this is their Community they love it they love clean water they love uh the a good quality of life for lots of people they they love intelligent responsible development which is inevitable but we do not like a lot of the things that we have seen we do not like living in a community where we know that one poor guy has become paralyzed and people can't go swimming in the water I think some things are changing already I think uh I I see optimism with the concept of going from septic to sewer and that's a big deal the city's been involved in that and there's credit for that and I applaud all of it but boy so much more needs to be done and especially we've got these big elephants in the living room one of them is called the space industry and the other one is the cruise industry and the effect that they're going to have on our immediate waterways right outside of our town here in Titusville and the quality of life and air and water and traffic and everything else is something we're going to have to deal with and I'll tell you science and volunteers and you guys I I really wish you guys had votes that mattered thank you thank you Dr Greenberg next Mary spar Mary spark Coco um can I first ask you I sent an email to you yes uh actually Monday did you do you have that can you access you you can access it did you um get the email as well okay okay good yes all all right so um let me say first of all I want to see this happen I really want to see the comprehensive plan updated and I believe that the purpose of all this public input and was and uh in you know public engagement was to lay the groundwork for um comp plan update so um with that in mind I really took a look at the report and I've got to really compliment um Inspire plac making on the Outreach to the citizens it was just excellent and um and I know based on a comparison with something else is going on in this particular County that you you really did a great job and all the information about the input from the public was very very well presented my problem is recommendations I just think it's too much for people to digest at once I mean we got this chart which you all probably have um you know of the recommendations and um I'm just afraid that what we're going to run into is stalling I mean how long is it going to take I've been around for a while and you know trying to be an environmental Advocate and I have seen a lot of stalling so the best way to avoid stalling um is to get a reasonable number of things that the local government um you know decision makers have to keep in mind if got to look like they can handle it um so that's why I suggest that um I hope actually that inspir plac making would um consider a little reorganization to their recommendation section um and I look through the recommendations and um you'll see that I sent you like a list um there's some that they can Implement right now there are some that require an ordinance update and then there are um four that need um complain changes so amazing I mean really it with the implementation you might think that um you know they might need a compl change to do some of this but um really the the the um public works department can take care of the infrastructure and and um you know finding the opportunities for um you know funding of the Indian rev Lagoon project and the public um education and the assessment fees and amazingly there is a policy that they're supposed to have created a green space master plan in the comprehensive plan found that so if they could just separate these out so you know the um city council could just kind of put those to the back of their mind and then the ordinance update as you know um you made some recommendations in um you know these came to city council yesterday and um are undergoing um advisability now with regard to comp plan um you do I like can't you I think you really do um need something in the compant about um a storm water park system um and so that's one change that could be made to the comp plan and then as far as the land acquisition program that kind of goes along with it um that would be another change to the comp plan and um you know the suggestions were made that it could be a storm weather Park system or it could be um purchases of some of the area of critical concern for the water supply and then with regard to the trees we have um you know a section in the conservation element um and you could add a little more language to that to require the urban forestry program and active participation in Tree City USA now the wetlands are my area of concern and um you do need some comp plan changes um do you mind if I finish yeah are you guys okay if Mary finishes yeah yeah go ahead okay um first of all um what we really need and I think we've talked about this at Tec before is it's not always clear to um appli uh for development um how these Wetlands policies are going to work because you have some policies which are in the future land use element and then you have some more policies that are in the conservation element now um the ones in the future land use element um had uh I'd say a major update in 2010 it was okay by the Department of Community Affairs at the state level but the conservation element policies the state said they were not in compliance and so the city had to go back to some older policies to get past the her with the state what this means is there's a mismatch between the future land use element and the conservation element and we have the policies there in the comprehensive plan to work with we don't need in my opinion any any stricter permitting rules because we're not supposed to be in the permit business anyway we're supposed to be in the land use planning business um what we need is a clarification so I'm going to suggest and I hope they'll think about it that they say um they say um gosh you know I I should should have brought that um you have some language that we supposed to um clarify the existing wetness policies and and maybe um add some that are um stronger than the state something like that well I suggest you change that wording I think we've got everything we need to clarify the existing weon policies and the comprehensive plan and remove inconsistencies um what happens is you say you going to do something strong this state I mean in another city in this County recently we've had um the development comp uh Community come out out of the woodwork um for um an upd dat to the Land Development code um and you don't want to set off of bar bels we've already seen some sort of the these fights and if you're what the city should be in is the business of is land use planning and there's some people that don't understand the difference between planning for you know the big picture of what lands you want um to have developed um if they're wetlands and the permitting job that the St John's does um you don't want to get in the St John's um hair you just want to do the land use planning and the way Titusville does this is that if forland is five five um Acres or greater in size it has a conservation land use and you have limited uses what happens is that um these limited uses need to be clarified a bit more and um so I would suggest that um you know that happened but that that's just a clarification and then their last suggestion um they got this piece of paper but this was about um conservation easement um unfortunately something in perpetuity that you might think like a conservation easement uh might not be so permanent and there's a loophole in the future land use element which um I think you know the situation has changed and now um these conservation ements are not so permanent so you need to get rid of the loophole and then they um have made a suggestion that um in a couple cases that perhaps bravad County could work with the city um when you consider that the um County language in their conservation element Wetland section is available and that most of the people that worked on this language are no longer with the county um I would suggest that the city of Titusville um do that um themselves or you know if they want to use these Consultants fine um but when you start trying to get another local government involved that just takes more time and um we really need to get it done and and another point is that Titus fi Wetlands language differs in important respect um from the counties um the county um addresses um by percentage um how much Wetland acreage you can impact the Titus fills addresses how much of what's to be done with the conservation land use for that um Wetlands 5 acres and greater they don't Titusville basically has very little um restrictions on smaller Wetlands so that's what I got to say if there's any questions I'll be glad to answer it sorry for taking so long no that's fine thank you very much and I'm sure that we'll have more questions are there any more cards L uh no more cards no more cards okay I'll open it up for discussion guys okay I have a question all right so the expectation tonight is to approve or not the product that is upon us yeah the expectation and and the hope is that we approve it you know and we can make suggestions and I see that they've been taking notes during the speakers and they'll take notes you know and you know um I I have a few you know I have a few things I have questions about but now is the time to ask questions and and figure out what what you know what would make this even better than it already is but send it on tonight okay M Thompson um I just want to add on to he I don't think this uh commission should be concerned about how overwhelming a lot of this might seem as far as recommendations um I would ask you to maybe look at this as more of a a long-term blueprint um this could be a long-term strategy that if you make a recommendation for this to go before city council they and if they approve this this is something that the TC could use long term in its strategy and its planning and its recommendations to the city council over time obviously all of these items you see in here can't be accomplished at one time that's not going to happen I can tell you that right now uh because each one of them has different needs for resources and what whatnot so as you prioritize your activities each year you could refer back to this plan this this document to say what we want to work on in this particular year as a part of a recommendation we want to give to city council some of them can be done uh together some probably need to be worked on individually so I just want to lay that out for you so you understand how this is this can be utilized in the future yeah thanks for that that was very helpful member Perez yeah thank you Brad I think that that helps a lot because you know I'm thinking in terms of exactly what you were talking about you know I think it's a wonderful tool okay and yes it's overwhelming in the sense that we touched on everything and we've been trying to do many of these things for years and years and years and years decades in some cases so yeah it would be overwhelming um that's not surprising uh but yeah it is frustrating and uh somewhat anxiety-provoking for some of us you know that uh are maybe worn out um but thank you wonderful job and I think with Brad's uh guidance that he just you know through out there which was very timely I think provides us with a construct of how to move forward with this uh we need to prioritize the things that we feel are most important and achievable and work with that and continue to sort of chisel at it I guess uh barring any other good thoughts I find that acceptable thank you member Tucker I just want to thank you for your effort and um it's I consider this a comprehensive bullet list to be fleshed out you couldn't you would be here next year working on it if you included all all the details needed so I'm just encouraged that we have like Brad says a blueprint uh it's pretty good um one thing was um uh you have the comprehensive plan and the other plan in there the so I guess there's all kinds of like the tree ordinance isn't in there but I'm assuming that's part of one the other noted in something else that there are so many rules and standards out there that you pick those guys as overbearing and plans to to move forward but I what I was looking at the thing that was coming up in our discussion is is how much is this being done I mean we have dreams and wants and like the tree plan is is part of I mean the tree ordinance that we not is part of that but I don't see a measure that says um uh one of these items that were that that our dream or plan is to be here and we're like 30% there is that something that should be put in here that say that that your your little items you know one to five or 1 to 15 or whatever they were should there be a number there that says we're 20% towards that or 30% towards that should should that be part of this or is that beyond what you're considering I you know that's interesting you you mentioned that because that's kind of the evolution of planning we're we're kind of moving towards this very transparent dashboard type evaluation of the plans and that wasn't part of our task it would be kind of difficult to maybe measure and evaluate each one of these right now but that could be part of what you have that's uh public facing is a a dashboard of these tasks and like you said a progress bar this is we're 10% of the way here you know and maybe action items associated with your your dashboard and so that's a really good comment because again so you can add to a place where we can take this document and and mark off that we're moving forward in this percentage ction inside this or is it something you you wouldn't add to this because that wasn't part of your original plan I mean or do we have to make something new to measure our our moving forward on this is that something we have to do and make our own document right that would be another another facet of this plan this is not part of what we're tasked to do but um doing something like that is a nice way to show how we're getting there that is something to CC could work on and have and utilize uh another board the historic preservation board for example has a historic preservation plan they got city council to approve several years ago they refer back to it every year to kind of prioritize what they want to do for the year so they look at it to see what we've achieved and what they haven't achieved and they don't go as far as creating a dashboard with percent complete or not but they do go back to it and refer so if that's the level of detail that the commission wants uh that's something that you can certainly work on and utilize and refer back to um but no that wasn't part of the original task of this this particular project so yeah and that I think that's a that's a great idea bill and the um if you look at the savear Indian River Lagoon website the County's um Happ peny sales tax website they have they have thermometers and they you know they they they have it shows the level uh of completion of the number of projects you know that have been completed the number of projects that are in process the number that are just in planning I don't think we need that right now a lot of what's in these recommendations is already being implemented and worked on and like you said some of them are 30% done I think what what we need to do is is give Jay and Chris whatever thoughts we want on what needs to be add added or changed in the document tonight and then we use this like Brad said as a road map and and we got to pick you know pick something that is of the highest priority well it it it's certainly straightening out the the complicated language that we have in the comp plan regarding wetlands and the loopholes that developers are using right now you know to fill in wetlands and and get away I I have a question um you know you talked about um and you gave a lot of emphasis to um strengthening our Wetland um you know requirements or policies or whatever beyond what is required for the state is that even legal or does that lay the city open to a Bert Harris lawsuit uh I believe it is legal um I'm of course not an attorney but um there there are communities right now in fact Orange County I believe is looking at dare I say a 100 foot up and buffer yes 100 foot right now they're considering that so yeah so there is you know there are communities that are um including significant um changes to their Wetland policies I know you know I think Lake County has a is it a 75 foot buffer in some instances and 50 foot that's already in the books today so thank you that's I could just add to that just my understanding is that those kind of restrictions though do have to get approval and review by fdp if a local jurisdiction wants to do something that's a little above and beyond and there has to be some Nexus for that regulation there has to be some study to justify that new regulation so that's something the city council wants to go forward uh with that's a something we would have to do to help justify that and just one point about some of those because there's those same buffers or you know extremely large buffers occur in the wakaba river Bas and the tamoka river Bas and and they there was a a study to show excuse me how significant and unique the resource was and why it needed this larger buffer so I don't know that we could do that cart blanch for every Wetland system in the city I also appreciated Mary's comments about the fact that perhaps we can accomplish that same objective by focusing on uh making the comprehensive plan consistent and we focus on uh protecting the land use and conservation status of uh of wetland systems and then when we do that perhaps that also changes the need to prioritize Wetland acquisition so if they are fully protected they don't need to be a part of the land acquisition strategy so some of these tools and recommendations I think um may have some Synergy thank you yeah I I think you know if we set out on a quest of trying to in enact stronger regulations than what the state requires it would be like throwing a big smoke bomb in a hornet's nest um the reaction that it might elicit um I think we'd be better off to just work on what we have and and listen to Mary um I don't see any other lights so I'm just going to keep on going here um on cover of it would it be possible to use a picture of the max Brewer Bridge instead of the W basso Causeway absolutely okay do we have a high quality image oh the Titusville has all kinds of pretty pictures of the bridge I we would love to okay absolutely all right and then and then the the smaller pictures that are inside um like the the ones that you use for the trees over the road and land acquisition and wetlands and the picture of the Indian River we we can come up with some local Titusville pictures for for those same categories if if you'd be interested absolutely I have tons of pictures I if you have photographs please share those we we'd love to include because I want to personalize it so that it it and people look at it and say oh well that yeah that's mosquito Lagoon yeah that's that's Old Dixie Highway so um we we'll get you those pictures great okay um amazing you said that because I was looking at the picture thinking that um it should be at the same place but looking across the wetlands and seeing Titusville at the end because right now see if you just show the bridge what I want what I like to see is the wetlands the bridge in the city so that the wetlands picks out from you and we off in a distance as a city so that that you know it's Titusville with the bridge but you emphasize most of it being Wetlands you know not looking just at the bridge because the bridge is cool but to look at the wetlands moving into the bridge in the city if that picture can I don't know if anybody has a picture like that but we'd have to look around and see but if we don't then just a picture of the of the of the bridge maybe with the pier 220 under it and people fishing on is that the railroad bridge no no that that is the W basso Causeway um so um let's see um on page five question two there's it talks about nitrogen and phosphorus but I think you need the word reduction after nitrogen and phosphorus just a little picky thing on page six question six you you have you you talk about the tree team comma and then it says tree tree club and Grove what is tree club and Grove it's on page six question six and you're you're you're listing the um potential possible organizations that could act as volunteer organizations to to help us do stuff let me find it came from could have been something that somebody had on one of the flip charts or something that was interviews theoretically yeah that was from the interview session so so the tree Club I believe is maybe that's what was they were from notes so it might have you know with people taking notes and okay over time we can remove it too it's not yeah I would take I would take that out sure excuse me maybe they mean the tree farm what CR we have a tree farm yes we have a tree farm ah well then change it to Tree Farm I don't think we have [Music] Tom's oh change it to the Garden Club Garden Club Garden Club okay Garden Club got it sorry about that club and I think the Grove is probably the Grove Church because I remember during the meeting somebody mentioned it yeah no some some one of the one of the people that were there had the idea that the Grove Church had a lot of volunteer groups doing things so that's what I think that was there's other volunteer groups I don't see mentioned in there um like y was here with the Eastern Florida State College they have an environmental group and there some other ones that I don't see mention but maybe none of those representes came to the meeting and put their name in so I don't know if we should name people that weren't there they're influential in the town do again this is based on the conversations that we had with you all so whatever came up during those conversations the individual discussions yeah so if that's the case um I certainly don't uh have any experience that the Grove Church volunteers or no volunteers would at all be a partner I think we should cut it out I think we should cut it out too and I think if we if we're going to include uh the uh the Garden Club I would say Titusville Garden Club Tree Farm okay okay okay and get tree club and Grove out of there so you only want to putes that were or we want to putes that we want be part of this and we we could add to that I mean we were summarizing the interview sessions essentially is that St that was the very beginning right who it was interviewed and talk to so we all add other people that we'd like to have be part of this this is what's taking place already those interviews were done individually with you now you're you're here together so you can discuss this and make changes to this report as you see fit so that section on page 15 of your packet which is Page with a report those Titusville environmental commission interviews if you see anything in here collectively discussing this that you would like to have change in here this is the time to do it right now we what of course yes of course yeah just take a look at page 15 if you're pack it you'll see yeah if you if you'd like us to add you know a couple that's fine you could change the native plant advisory to the Native Plant Society and I don't know if blue origin in the KSC and space Florida want to be mentioned in this but we they could be partners they certainly could it would be nice but um and if we put in blue origin do we need to add SpaceX so we don't insult one of the richest men in the world sure put in SpaceX are many groups that good partner we have environmental groups in our community that could partner if they were willing but we invite them to these meetings the friends of the Enchanted Forest right the native plan Society spoken to those groups times could the speaker come up to the Pod if you're going to speak you to the microphone that we I mean we could fill up this page with organizations I think we're okay with just picking out a few yeah okay I initiated the Titusville tree team okay my name is Kay and as such I'm asked to give presentations to various groups in our community who are interested in trees so we have the Enchanted Forest down that big eel project down in and and so they've invited me many times to speak in front of the friends of the Enchanted Force they also have in the same facility they have the Native Plant Society I've spoken to them a number of times I've spoken to the Garden Club that meets on Sison Street as well as the Garden Club Tree Farm uh and all those groups might be willing or some members of those groups might be willing to undertake projects um I've I've always encouraged them to come and U meet with City Council and voice their opinions and occasionally some have um but not as an organization and I'm I could give my reasons why I think that's true but I think if they were asked to partnership on a more from a more official source that they might be so inclined um so maybe that helps you out I wasn't part of the interview and so I don't really know what you're trying to fill in there um but I do want you to know that we do have a number of environmental groups those are just one I'm aware of so thank you yeah because eel eel is part of the Enchanted Forest which is part of this thing but eel I don't see eel when you're talking about who our partners are eel is a would be a partner they're in the town well that the county has the eel program um we do have people that have retired from the ill program that work with the tifi tree team um we do and I have talked with them before yeah I I think it would be good to add the environmentally endangered lands program yes that's you and I I from one of these meetings here I was asked to go to um we went to um the golf course where we had a meeting with the the fishermen yes who do fishing uh Charter charter fishing and there was like 75 Fisher I didn't know there was that many boat guys doing fishing in in the City and there they were you know talking about saving the Lagoon and saving the river because they're losing money because they can't get people to come and go fishing because well yeah we can't get fish fishing tournaments here and we so have the fish we used to have the major fishing tournament here Nationwide and now it's gone and guess what we used to have the largest bird festival and Wildlife Festival as well um and and lur still has that it's not as big as it used to be I don't believe because our bird population is declining so rapidly um but we still have a bird Festival bird and Wildlife Festival since I'm up here can I since I really would like you to change this update landscape ordinances that states update the comp plan and code to require Florida friendly Landscaping only we are are definitely that that wording needs to be changed we are not wanting to require Florida friendly Landscaping only we are wanting to require native plantings native what page are you on it's on page 27 okay thank you right uh we have updated our technical manual to it used to only have 33% native plants we've update and it was mostly Florida friendly plants uh and now we've changed it to 73% of the tech manual is now native plants we uh the Tec and the pnz have recommended to council that uh the that landscapers be given incentive to plant native over Florida friendly Florida friendly just does not provide the benefits that native plants do for the bees and the birds a Florida friendly plant can be from China from India it just happens to grow well here and doesn't need a lot of water and irrigation that's all a Florida friendly plant is my yard's full of Florida friendly plants but I also intersperse native plants and so my yard's full of butterflies and birds so I'm not totally opposed of Florida friendly but that's not something we want to require only Florida friendly we want to encourage more and more native which is what I'm trying to do in my yard too so you do it on an individual level and you do it on local level and hopefully National so so Jay and Chris it's in the top top of the chart there and you've got it right on the left hand in the very left hand column except I'd rather see native species listed before Florida friendly I would eliminate Florida friendly we want na put put native species first you know and and or Florida friendly but K's right it in the the middle column it it it says it re to require Florida Landscaping only we want we want to require that they use natives Florida Natives and if they can't use all Florida natives they can use a few Florida friendly but um if you can doctor that up would be good can we can we go back to page six please item six the question is what the problem is okay I remember when we had the interview and I struggle with that one because the way the question is worded specific suggestions for projects or Partnerships you don't have a project listed there at all zero in N of your dialogue that you copy you have potential partner ships of people throwing out names is that really what we want to do with that question because the two items that you're trying to get we as a community I think have failed to answer it keep keep in mind this was the the interview sessions with with you all right and so we're just documenting what wearn if you're documenting but now you're putting it as an answer sure that's what the problem is in my opinion that's why we're all struggling with with question six okay because you're asking for specifics we and I don't think you got that I don't think we gave you that we can relook at our notes and see if we can add some programs or um to better you know formulate this think about it because we're not answering that question we're just throwing names at it sure yeah well our people have been contacted or otherwise know that somebody mentioned them all since we since we're all important way yeah since we're all together and and we can talk what projects would you like to see it in now seeing it now so they don't have to spend time going back and looking at their notes even if we look at the notes they look at not that's possible they may find there's no projects okay so I can share with you that we would like to see more testing done of outfalls coming out of the city of Titusville we I would like to see more testing done at the at the sewer plant okay to know what what is coming out out of the city and what and what they're looking at I would like to know a study that tells me how volume of the of the water that we're putting back into the river throughout Falls and and piping okay just getting rid of uh all of that should be at the FD but but it isn't we don't do testing no no the the the seore plant doesn't get tested that's that's actually not true they get they have to get tested otherwise we'd be shut down and we'd have no sewage system the F the fdp requires testing periodically every two years but they also require that the amount of water that goes into our discharge our environmentally sensitive areas is recorded to the approximate gallons you know thousands of gallons or whatever it is so they're there they are there somebody is actually know the measurement they outfall lines with 16 inch capacity I don't think so okay well you know what take a trip down there and you'll find out that they do they have a measurement machines I have instrumentation it's all computerized now that measures every single out it's all computerized now I worked in a wastewater treatment lab so I know this is true and I've seen the the ones at the Osprey and at the on Buffalo Road so I know they have the instrumentation and I know they reg people I know they record it and I know that they have to send it every month they have to send a report into the ftep that tells them when they discharge what kind of tests was done on the discharge because every time there's a discharge there's a slew ATT tests that have to be done and then every single year they have to do testing on what goes out but at the park here they didn't even know what they had and they and they prohibited testing that's not the outfall that's an overflow and a spill that's not an outfall well but an outfall if I go to any of the one that they have I don't think they can tell me by number one through number 14 in the city what is put being put out they have officially the outposts are at Buffalo plant I don't think they do they discharge there anymore and that the ospr those are the official outfalls okay the other ones the broken pipes and things like that broken Pip this is like the house an out line you mean The Accidental overflows that they've had no there's a there's a storm water there's a storm water that's not the same thing as not the same thing no I separated that I said at aspring yes we I I would like to see more testing and I would like to see more data the data is not published nobody knows what it is the data is not published for the storm Waters you're right but for the waste water to inflence it is definitely no I'm sure it's there as a as a data but it's not published there are no other citizens that know what they're putting out okay we're talking about things that we would like to to do as projects is maybe the project should be to share data are we doing good are we doing bad okay how what capacity do we have and then on thatf what I would like to see is the testing on the outa lines whether it comes from s point or it comes from sanesa or it comes from anywhere else okay and that is not done either because we fail miserably October of 23 September of 23 we took it to council and Council refused to take measurements this gentleman was there and I was there okay and they use the words that we don't want to know Mr Green you had your hand up yeah let me uh respond a little bit to that I've I've spent three years now studying storm water in this area again to go back to 50 plus years as an environmental scientist and a geologist and working in all kinds of things like this and apparently I wasn't there when the when the city council rejected it you you all voted six and zero in favor they voted 5 to zero against and you know who I resp ECT all right but anyway I wasn't there to answer anything uh I was sent a bunch of questions that I actually got from Mr Parish which I sent back to them too so they got answers to their questions and apparently they didn't find those satisfactory um but I can tell you it Bard County alone has 1,800 at least 1,800 separate outfalls of storm waterer conduits of some kind and this all represents re-plumbing that was done back starting in the 1940s mostly and through the 50s uh what you're talking about with the sewage plants is exactly right those are the official treated water outfalls but you're talking about storm water and I can tell I think some of you already know um I'd like more people to realize too that we have what's called swirl now which is actually an organization we have independent funding very small amount we're doing a pilot study and we're doing it with Eastern Florida State College and we're looking particularly at chain of lakes at properties and Waters that are not under the authority of the city of Titusville for obvious reasons because they rejected us they rejected us and they made a couple comments like well we weren't we weren't trustworthy and we didn't have the we didn't do this we do that these are direct these are things that are on the record now as I've being told so they can't deny it um and that we would force people to you know to go on their property to to sample water that's that's totally toally untrue totally untrue and we have been continuing to work but again without the city of of Titusville it should be partners on this and with this sort of a study it seems more inevitable that someday this is going to happen anyway and we've got very competent professionals technical professionals uh biologists geologists Engineers all kinds of people that are working that they never even asked me about people that are involved and will'll be using the local high Astronaut High School is highly involved but Eastern Florida State College is going to be a prime partner in this and we're going to start in waters that are going into the Lagoon but are not under the authority of the city of Titusville because we're not allowed to because we might get arrested if we're caught sampling those Waters now if that's not outrageous I don't know what is and you can send that back to city council if you'd like but anyway the point being that there are a lot of outfalls and one of your own members who's not here who's in enjoying his time up in Maine right now Mike maack is actually one of our Tech experts and he's helping us put together uh a team of people who can sample at remotely realtime measurements remotely at these outfall sites and we're going to start with a small pilot project and then hopefully expand we've gotten the ear and we've talking we've talked to the uh the head of the Natural Resources Division for the county with Virginia bar work we've talked to many others we've had had to go around the city because the city rejected what we wanted to do everybody else is excited about it everybody else that's involved in the IRL all my other science contacts we're working with high school students we're working with college students this might be a revelation for a lot of people I don't know because I haven't been back again I didn't want to go back to city council I didn't want to confront them about what they did to our project uh which again consider to be shameful absolutely there was no there's no jurist Prudence involved with being able to answer those questions in front of them as they basically made accusations so we are getting ready right now to do what you mentioned and it's a small project because we have very very little funding but we're hoping that for the future there will be more funding available because this the kind of thing that needs to be done much more broadly not just Titusville some people say why you do it here well I'm here and and the notoriety of bad water is here which we cannot ignore so anyway I don't know if you have any other questions about this Mike is very very interested in looking at ways of determining how much fresh water is going into the IRL we we heard it at the city council meeting from a very very good researcher the University of Florida Todd Osborne talking about how freshwater into the IRL is the number one toxin that's bad for all marine organisms not just the seagrass and all that but everything else in that has to have higher salinity and we are pumping artificially we're returning all that water that should be out in our Wetlands the water that should be going into the St John's river system and sending it into the IRL and that was a big mistake it's the same mistake that was made for Lake okobi and we're seeing what happens with that with things like red tide and cyanobacteria deadly things happening because human beings have done things wrong and it's time to change anyway I know I'm preaching so thank you thank you okay so going back to what I was trying to say I believe in question six of page six what we have is a a nly of names that don't belong there because they're not specific this are a wish list of names and we might have given them to you I'm not discounting that but I do remember when I was in your interview that I brought up the issue of testing very loudly and to the point and so as a project I am requesting that we add the testing to item six question six on page six and perhaps remove some of those names that they're all well intended and it's a list of people that I'm sure do a lot of good work but they're not specific to your question okay and when you use the work spe the word specific it means something not just my organization or their organizations and somebody else's organizations so I'm giving you projects that's my point memory young um I was surprised last week not sure how this fits in but I was in my backyard doing yard work and I hear tractors and Machinery in my backyard uh behind my house uh 50 years ago was a gas station then it turned into a used car lot uh it's been sitting empty for few years and so I went through the gate to to this property that's behind my house and these machines are there being paid by Florida department of ver D and they to put down Wells so right next door here on my property these this company is putting down three Wells on this property to test the pollution in the water that I use in my well to water my plants and my vegetables that I eat and this water thing flows underground from my house to the river so you may have above ground flows but what about the below ground flows of water to the river so they're doing another test so they already had three Wells down and they're adding another three Wells and I talked to them and they gave me some web pages to go to and I downloaded a 50-page report that I haven't finished reading yet on what they're testing in the water that I water my grass and food with how do we put this to here into your report uh I just thought I'd throw that out that I just was burnt by this last week probably happens everywhere there is an old gas station yeah definitely happening at Sears down so I come get water at your house sure I don't have a well it would be Bard County Water up in Mims but yeah you can come get water at my house um I'd like to add a project um the concept of um and it and it goes along with with member Delgado and that is redirect fresh water away from the Indian River Lagoon and that that could you know that could cover storm water parks it it could cover all kinds of things just that that would be my project I'd like to add anybody else member Perez and then member Tucker and then member I've had this on for a while sorry okay so I like a second what you just said Laur Le but I wanted to go back to question number six I do think it was uh kind of a uh maybe not a very good question okay uh the intent of it I think got lost in the sauce uh in order to just Salvage something although I don't know I don't know how meaningful it would be uh just to restate the question do you have suggestions for Partnerships that could improve natural resources in or near the city I think that it's vanilla okay but the way it's it exists right now it is problematic just to get beyond that point so what are you what are you suggesting that we add or take out so it's no longer problematic to change the question to do you have suggestions for Partnerships that could improve natural resources in or near the city and get rid of the rest of it get rid of the word projects do you have any specific and then for projects so do you have suggestions for Partnerships that could improve natural resources and that pretty much lists what there is there and it's vanilla you know there's nothing I don't want to take out projects okay leave them in remember Jacker um this is totally off the current topic but um I don't know where this fits in I would like to see us try to find connective Green Space pocketed Green Space is is good but connective Green Space has many more benefits another related I'm sorry another related thought is connecting Parcels of wetlands that are under 5 Acres that's something that's come up in the past in order to protect them well that would fit in with green spaces we we'll say green spaces and wetlands how about that that that way we got Uplands and wetlands but we we have a huge opportunity here in Titusville to have a really really nice green Corridor there's still enough left remember F to add to your comment the um storm water culverts it would be great if we had a pro work get involved corporations to replace them and keep them keep them maintain them like the ones under I95 yeah like those like those like those all you guys have any more projects or organizations do you do you think that it's a waste of space to include BL blue origin KSC space Florida I do too I I I really I mean I I I'm trying to be realistic and I think that that's a pie in the sky pipe dream to think that they would they would partner with us you know to unless we had a great publicist yeah well somebody made the suggestion from this group well I think they need to be somewhere because they're adding to our pollution no question about that maybe that's why we need them as partners well leave them in there can we embarrass some of them to being a partners oh remember Delgado who who worked out at the Space Center for all his life said don't name the companies if you name companies you're going to be n minus one company because there are more companies out there than a lot of people realize today we just see a small number of launches from either SpaceX or Ula right now we're going to see blue origin we're going to see and there are 10 other companies out there with rockets at the pad that do you want to mention do you do you want to have a a spelling be on the acronyms which I can add to that after 36 years of living with a we used to have a book for acronyms by the way so maybe the the space industry at the cape or something okay and NASA okay and and space for Florida those are the three main institutes that are out there okay and then you cover everyone that's great so NASA space Florida and the commercial space industry any more projects to go on six I think so we've got Green Space red diverting freshwater testing storm water that's enough all right let's move on from number six any any more ideas or suggestions yes I'm sorry I've read the thing so is there a list that we can put together that says these are ready to implement is there such a list things that are ready to implement as in like that like shovel ready projects so to speak we we don't have it I didn't want to use that right right we don't have that list identified yet I think that would be something that City staff would have to help us with now um Mary suggested it and Brad and I talked about it yesterday maybe um on the right hand side under the when we're in the recommend commendations column I'm sorry on the left hand side for for each of the individual things that we we we need to know whether it would be like a comp plan change or re or added to the comp plan whether it whether it refers to the comp plan whether it refers to the Land Development regulations um let me see just some way to to you know kind of help us understand where where each one of these um suggestions goes so it it could be I'm trying to find it here in the notes just we need help being able to figure out we we you know we don't do we don't work like the comp plan language and so we kind of need some guidance so that we understand where each one of these things fits in whether it's an A Land Development regulation or a complain policy or a strategy or whatever absolutely we can do that that that would be good that would be very helpful and one more thing if if you don't mind also there are some things and we have heard today about that need ordinance change like the wetlands like and like other other items could we couch those into that category absolutely yeah and back to the wetlands you the the city is about to enter into the ear process again I can't believe it's already been five years orever how many and that's the evaluation and Analysis report I think I'm it I may not have the right words but it's like an update to the comp plan that the city has to do every so many years and so this is a perfect timing now um to to get those Wetland issues resolved so that you know the the um the the I don't know which the conservation element match is the future land use element and the ldrs are we we need to get it all where it's matched up so that that it can't these these issues with our language can't be used as a loophole for us to be continually losing these small Wetlands around the city or chunks of the big Wetlands too because part of a 100 Acre Wetland might have 2 and 1/2 acres on your property but you're looking at it as it's only 2 and 1/2 acres but in reality it's part of a 102 and a half acre piece can we put that on our agenda a future for the well I think what we would do is a after we get through beating up their work and get it to where you like it then perhaps we would then um identify what we want to tackle first and that would be my preference did you guys get a copy of Mary's email you did okay so I I don't need to go into under her comp plan she's got some specific things that she's got listed there but you've got that um you guys did you look at the email okay I don't need to go over these they're all really good suggestions but I don't since they have the email and you guys have had the email I see no reason to go over all of those are you I'm sorry are you suggesting to make changes to the report based on the email from Mary Spar yeah so maybe we do need to talk about it is that what the commission wants to do I think you could do that if the had nod and kind agree unless there's someone that disagrees with that probably needs to state that or motion however you want to do it all right why don't I read them off and make sure that everybody agrees with them so that it's on the record it I did include it in the agenda star app that's on or I'm sorry the icon that's on your desktop so you can retrieve it from there if you don't have a hard copy or you don't have it with you so if you need help finding it please tell me agenda so you click on the that's on the left hand upper upper left hand side what's an agenda star I'm sorry I I'm you close this oh close that no minimize just minimize the agenda that's on your two I got it okay is it the top one or the bottom one or either one should say just agenda it looks like a a yellow star click on that you see two documents one is the Tec agenda and the second document is the email or the uh attachment from Mary Spar yeah so Inspire recommendations open that up and you should see it there it is okay so yall read through that and make sure that you're in agreement with all the work that Mary did um yeah thank you br Madam chairman I'm I'm hoping I don't know what may come from the commission now but I I'm assuming you're going to say something like consider these uh suggestions as we edit the final report there might be there might be some words I would suggest changing from the way Mary approached it I think they're all good ideas but we may have some different verbiage or a different uh way of addressing it okay that's fine with me yes I agree with Jay um because what I've done um you know well first of all these numbers here um belong to you know the categories that they they so you see they're not in order 2 3 8 9 10 but in these comments um you know um I don't want to have anything um you know that is critical of you know the effort I think you know they've really tried and and they've done a wonderful job with the Outreach so um these are just kind of cleanup things um you know in fact you know the so they can kind of word them like they want um you know they should have some leeway you know you may not want to um include my little um you know recommendations to you about their recommendations you know um but just just give them some um leeway like I mean for example um the last one please consider deleting two implementation suggestion you know they could just go ahead and do that if they want you know I really to be honest I mean you look looking at somebody who who who um is responsible for 1.8% and that's a day um so you know give them some um leway and um maybe they'll people think they didn't have to engage the county or or some of the other things that's all I got to say one thing I was thinking Brad I think this might have been what you were talking about earlier that maybe yall discussed in a meeting there could be a column on the far side of this that that simply says something like next steps so the implementation I think would go further to say Seek funding opportunities for IRL projects assess impact fees so there be something actionable in that category rather than breaking it down into implementation that doesn't have something that's actionable and we would think about how to how to make actionable those things that perhaps are not comp plan or ldr changes so just my thought and that that then can come back to yall and I was thinking about this you know how you PRI prioritize things this dashboard is a great idea but when you think about it um I think about how you prioritize management actions sometimes that has to do not only with what you might prioritize the ease of accomplish accomplishment the substance of of what you're going to be accomplishment the time frame for completion the expense the likelihood of partnership whether it's a part of an ongoing effort the current status that uh commissioner young mentioned so all those things might be a part of a decision tree that would have you say we're going to do this first it's we're pick cherry-picking even though it's not the most substantive but the most substantive is so complicated it'll take us six years to accomplish so you know these next steps might help you with the decision tree about what you tackle first and so would you create that decision tree that we could then apply to these things as throughout the year as we're we're talking about it because we we used the decision tree when I was on the fishery management Council and it was extremely helpful in helping us ID I tell you for for Chris and Brad I will commit to putting these things down sort of the first steps of a decision tree but I I know it wasn't a part of our scope so I think some initial thoughts on that be happy to to sort of run that for the team thank you and and again all these are great points and the comments is where I would agree with Mary that perhaps because like for instance uh number seven number seven the title is exactly what we've been talking about develop and amend existing Wetland policies so so it refers to existing policies that need to be looked at again okay and create limitations of wetland impacts and so that's a product it's a product But it includes that dangerous language about create more limit on Wetland impacts so I personally would like to see any reference to creating additional um limitations or additional whatevers be beyond the scope of what we already have I think I think that's a dangerous place for us to go I I would just I I the way I would use that is take advantage of the wording and take up limitations and uh and we are looking for impacts on Wetlands but we do have a problem with with the with the policies the way they are and so therefore we need to that's something to be looked at and and I think it Inc it it takes care of the essence of what we've been trying to talk about with a wet lens we have policy issues and we have some other real issues and we need to bring them together and that is something the city Tec and obviously the citizens at large got to work together on that so in your decision treat that's how that would come together okay I see no more lights are you guys okay with the product I I am very happy with it I I I think you guys did a wonderful job you really did yes go ahead I make a motion that we incorporate Mary's words for you gentlemen to consider for the updated version of this is that is that good M and the other and I if if I may add and other additional comments that we have talked about yeah because we talked about about a lot of testing we talked about a lot of policy we talked about also a category that says what is ready I you know I think I think there's two different things here right right now we're talking about including Mary Mary's suggest then we vote on that and then once that's done then we vote to approve the whole project along that includes all of the discussion all right so we got a motion on the floor by member fiss seconded by member Perez that we um that we include the the gist of Mary's suggestions in in with the plan and let Jay and Chris work them in so uh let me make it easier for Lori that we approve adding Mary's thoughts to the to the document yeah okay all those in favor say I I I I or do we need a roll call on this L okay let's do a roll call member young yes member fiss yes member Delgado yes member Tucker yes member Perez yes chairwoman Thompson yes all right now can I hear a motion for to approve the document I make a motion that we approve the document with the changes that we have discussed included second motion by member fiss and seconded by member Perez that we approve this document with the changes that we discussed all those no roll call member Perez yes member young yes member Delgado yes member FL yes member Tucker yes chairwoman Thompson yes all right it passes unanimously so what is the next steps do you guys make the changes and it comes back to us or do you make the changes and it goes to p and z or what happens next Brad I can answer that so based on how significant the changes are we'll make a determination as to whether we'll share them with you we'll make a determination is whether they need to come back to you and I I could probably do the presentation to show you what's there um and if we need to get on another motion to approve the changes we can otherwise if the changes aren't so significant we can just go ahead and bring this before city council uh I'll share it with you and see if you have any uh questions about it we'll make that determination if it goes to city council obviously you'll have opportunity to make a case for or to come and and um speak on it about it at that council meeting um I'm not sure what our timeline is I have to look back to see but I think um we're probably going to bring this back to city council soon so I can't remember I have to look at the schedule again the our final was due to you by September 30th so I don't know when that Council next meeting was going so we'll determine whether this is something we can just bring to City Council on our with City staff or if we need to reach out to you guys depending on the questions that we've received if maybe we need to have someone come and work with you to maybe do another task to come and present at the city council for us we'll make that determination once we see the final product and share with okay and and you'll get with them with some pictures of the max buer Bridge yes we'll share everything we've got I'll send you some pictures if y'all have any pictures that you're fond of um but yeah I'd like to get some Titus so pictures into the document so it's personal for us and and Madam chair we'll make sure to do strike through and underline so you'll see what has been changed in the document okay all right so I think now that we've blessed the document we need to prioritize what we want to work on first I say Wetlands the Wetland language I like that I make a motion we work on the wetlands language first on the agenda second on the agenda second all right the motion was made by member fiss and seconded by member Perez that we prioritize cleaning up the wetlands language in comp plan and the ldrs first roll call member young yes member delado yes member F yes member Perez yes member Tucker I just had a question question is this a future agenda items that we're voting on work items first well what are we doing well um yeah I guess it would be an agenda item but we would be working with the planning department on on the the actual language that's in the comp plan okay so we're just putting this to the top of the agenda we're making it our priority yes chairwoman Thompson yes yes and and then we can you know once the document's done it it's it's going to be a road map for us a gigantic road map which we've needed all along you know because we can pick and choose from it for our future agenda items and and uh it's going to make life easier for us I think can I ask a question come come up to the mic sorry um just wondering I like this concept of a road map so this is a guideline for the future that we're gaining from what we have here to help us uh make decisions but it's not a legal document where the language has to be so precise that we okay is that yeah just to let people know I mean we were a little concerned about it because some things could be taken you know very very specifically and yet I think that's the the real Spirit behind this is a is a flexible guideline okay thank you I have a question okay so at the next agenda you're going to address Wetlands may take two or three meetings you only meet what 10 12 11 times a year is it remotely possible now that you have this big um they're asking you to do so much that you might could meet maybe twice a month instead of just once a month or maybe for longer periods of time because I I just want to see these things actually get done and I don't are you do you anticipate you're going to be able to do the wetlands all in one month one meeting or will it take two three four five like you know that I just want you to think about that maybe you could actually um meet twice a month we we'll figure out what we need I mean I I I picture this as a lot of meetings with Mary and staff personally but um um we'll figure that out and and and it's not going to be an agenda item at our next meeting because the staff is staff is staff is the ones that are going to have to do the the work how you know the the actual language in in the comp plan we don't we don't have the ability to do that ourselves but we'll be working with them but but I you know we're we're given staff direction that we want the wetlands policies to be the first thing that gets worked on am am I saying that right Brad so this document will go to city council if they approve it they are basically saying uh they support it they would be basically saying that the TC can we approve what TC will be working on and as you know as a guideline we we they bless it basically now if you're asking staff to work on Solutions of what LS now that's a recommendation you would have to make to city council basically an advisability asking Council to dedic to ask to uh direct staff to dedicate time to work on a specific project now if you'd like to have this topic of wetlands on your agenda to discuss that's you can do that so if I understood your motion earlier about prioritizing Wetlands as an agenda for discussion items at your next meeting that's how I interpreted it if I misunderstood that i' Ed out there yeah well we can we can do that I mean we've already got the advisability on the tree stuff so maybe we can move on to something new and exciting I think so I think we've talked enough about trees and you know right now we we got to wait on staff to to do their advisability thing you know before we bring the tree thing back so I can't say this the ER process that's the um seven-year cycle amendment to our comprehensive plan we're going to involve you at some point in that process we have a whole year to have to go through that process to make changes to the comprehensive plan to make him consistent with State Statute so there may be some opportunity where we can make changes add additional policies it's related that might have been pulled out of this document or somewhere else so you will get an opportuni to some point this year so if if so you guys are going to be working on in the future um is that a good use of our time at the next meeting to talk about Wetlands I believe at your next meeting you've already um placed a couple of items I think at your last meeting you had added a couple agenda items that you wanted to talk about at your October meeting so if you want to talk about wellins I think you're going to have three items to talk about already at that meeting so it's up to you I you can always table one of these items to another discussion as well we have my if I misunderstood please tell me but I was just going to add Wetlands as a discussion at your next meeting there may be other things that might since we're going to be working on Wetlands anyway for the ear thing maybe we maybe there's other stuff we want to be talking on look at the minutes from the last meeting and that should have that should have our future agenda items right at the end of the minutes I can't even remember what what it was we were talking about for October you have a request to talk about the native Municipal tree canopy and Landscape Management trust fund is one item no we tabled that until October November I thought no we we a motion I reive is that it was tabled until the October 9th meeting oh because Michael will be back then I I believe so that I don't think he was part of that motion that could take a whole meeting back 11 okay he's coming back when October 11 is that before or after our next meeting huh next meeting is on October 9th you guys this I I don't think we want to talk about that till Michael comes back that's why I thought we had tabled it till November so we meing a motion to to table retable that till November unless you guys want to talk about it and Mike's not even here that makes no sense yeah motion to retable that agenda until the November meeting yes all right the motion was made and uh by member fiss and seconded by member Perez to I don't know what you would call it retable move the table Advance the tabling um I about reschedule it for the next reschedule the tabling of of of the landscape trust fund to the November meeting um all those in favor say I I I okay so what do you guys want to talk about at the next meeting okay so the next meeting this report should be out already September 30th I just heard right we we are supposed to get it back from the consultant by September 30th that's their deadline and then we'll review it and make a determination I don't think we'll have it in time to bring it back to you about your October meeting okay if that's what you were asking for so we'll make a determination as to whe bring it back to you or to bring it straight to city council but that's that's what I was concerned that that would happen so do you want to see it back at your next meeting then is that what you're looking or at a future meeting before goes to city council yeah we'd like to see it okay then then I mean is that a yes from you guys or yeah I'd like to see it before it goes to city council okay that it will be brought before city council after the election so probably later this late this year or possibly early next year is the earliest where then we'll be able to give it to them so all this will do is just delay when city council ultimately sees it that's all so we can certainly bring it back to you I think when we get it back from deadline on the 30th we're not going to have time to get it onto your agenda for the October meeting I can tell you that that's not that's too close so probably at the earliest time would be the November meeting well I think that I think that it should go to the new city council anyway why why would we saddle the new city council that an old city council approve one meeting before they take take that's fine yeah I just I just want you to be aware of that so then it comes to you the earliest potentially be your November meeting and then it'll go to city council potentially um at the earliest will probably be the December meeting that's fine okay all right so what do you guys want to talk about next meeting where are we on the Synthetic Turf uh ordinances we're still working on a draft Council finally gave us direction we had to go to them several times but they fin gave us direction to work on that so that's something we're working on WE I'm not I can't give you a timeline when we give it back to them but we're getting close so all of the stuff the I think it was five items from several Council meetings ago that that they gave you advisability are any of those close close enough for us to be looking at one give me a moment I'll see what I can sure tell you I don't have a date for the artificial turf ordinance um I don't have a date for the minimum native vegetation and landscaping or that these are fairly recently approved advisability so it's going to take a few months for us to get those completed and advertised um those are the two ordinances I think we addressed the other items that you had asked for back several months ago I think there were five items that were approved by city council I can look into the status of each of those and I can respond to you in an email with the status of each of that if you like okay I just won't be able to provide that now all right actually I've gone off the agenda anyway we should be on petitions and requests from the public I'm sorry does anybody want to speak y all good all right now we're on to reports you have a staff report no man' no staff report how about you guys any of y'all have a report already my report at least you'll know what you're using to water your plants with before it was just a mystery scare you to death chwan Thompson yes I'm still confused on the prioritized wetlands in comp plan is that for the next agenda or was that just a request for staff that was a that was a request in for for staff you know I guess as we're moving forward with this report so yeah um that that's not an agenda item for the next meeting unless you guys want to make it but I don't see any point in should we take it back huh I withdraw that motion is that what we should do would that would that make things simpler I mean I'm I just wanted to be sure I understood it myself so we we could withdraw that motion so that there isn't any confusion because what I think that would be something that we would want to vote on at a later date actually so thank you for bringing that up you want to withdraw your motion so I withdraw that motion you withdraw your second I withdraw my second okay so the the motion to prioritize wetlands in the immediate future is been withdrawn we'll address it later and now you have any presentations that they want to bring up or friends that do something fun for a change okay we can bring back to you a draft one of these ordinances that we're working on okay that would be good I have an idea for another another meeting a next meeting now what's that okay so I was listening to NPR the other morning and found out that the State of Florida has about a year before we run out of portable water by some I don't know what the name of the organization is but it made me wonder how can we find out what our projected water use is and how it relates to our recharge areas and the amount of water that we actually have how many more customers can we how many more households can we sustainably grow before we want end up end up running out of water and isn't that something that we should start thinking about yeah I like that idea uh well we did ask that question at the workshop and that was a question about capacity which is not addressed in this report you guys remember that there was a report s couple of years ago or about a year ago rather was completed I can certainly share it with you that was uh brought before the planning zoning commission as part of a concurrency review and um city council and an an amendment that was made to the comprehensive plan related to water so it's actually before we've had all of this crazy outrageous growth it was completed last year yeah so yeah yeah if you can bring that report that would be fun to look at Brad could I comment on that a little bit the uh the concept of how much water is left is something that's being appointed all across the us right now in different places including Florida and there uh again we have so many divisions of different universities and different agencies that are working on parts of this but it it represents um a modeling project and I think it's probably been done a couple times you'd have to dig for IT University of Florida's got some people that are that are involved in that but you have to look at uh the capture of of rainwater storm water you have to look at groundwater resources and we know those are getting depleted and I think what you're asking is an absolute central question for the future of Florida that you know our state government doesn't want to deal with but I think all of us have to be aware of and I did see probably two months ago now a projection by somebody I can't remember who it was that says we are really not doing well and if you look at the projections for increase of of uh population and then with that it's not just the number of people but it's all that industry and what space is doing right now you just wouldn't not I think they're going to run out of water freshwater big time over on merid island with the space industry because the big Rockets take a million and a half gallons just for cooling over there each time they take off and they're and they're not just using groundwater they're bringing water over from cocoa they're steam so that's a huge question and it goes Way Beyond Titus bille but it's the kind of thing it would be great if we could get together with others with the county with the state with the federal government and kind of figure out what the best science is again about how much water resource is available we can't do de desalination here that's not that's not that's not feasible and um so great question but I think it's Way Beyond most of us to get an estimate no I think that it's not Beyond us to find out okay what the what our recharge rate is because they know what the recharge rate is they've been they've been collecting water from the wells for some time so they have a real idea about what for locally you mean for local for right right St John's river is is a primary uh organization I think the Water Management District and those would be the wealth primarily on the other side of 995 over there that they've been monitoring for a long time and I'm right with you I agree with you so what so my idea is that once we have an idea of the expected growth for the area with regards to how much what the recharge rate is how much water we have there are going to be other cities that have calculated that also and then we can as you're suggesting propose to the city that we get together with the other organizations and see the dire states where really because we really have to go around a particularly less inclined to recognize you know um increasing sea levels and reducing water levels governor and that's good to yes right right exactly so oops you're right and that's that's makes it more complicated too with climate change but even immediately next few years is what you're thinking about they one year year is what this group it's some kind of budgeting group and what they interesting to see how they what their numbers are like I don't remember the name I wrote it down somewhere but I forgot it but I listen I heard it on NPR interesting David before yester interesting project for Florida they said specifically Florida okay and then our own issue here is even more dire than a lot of places because of that development plus space and yeah so it makes it even worse all right so um with that we've been through the agenda we're good unless anybody has anything else all right thank you very much thank you Jay and Chris and Gabby great job we really really appreciate it um it was fun and um we we we're really grateful because we've needed this and and thank you Brad CU I don't know whose idea it was to to hire them but thank you