##VIDEO ID:tn5IgY3BsVc## limit or application of these new houses when it comes to water usage that's the only thing keep asking that question end up getting a consistent answer good evening this is the uh Planning and Zoning meeting for September the 18th 2024 would you please stand for the Pledge of [Applause] Allegiance I pledge Alle to the of the United States of America and to the repu stand one na indivisible andice Lori would you please call the row chairman Richardson here Vice chairman Aton here secretary Grant member Childs here member Gad here member fa here member Moscoso here alternate member finer here alternate member Rogers here School Board member mclin here we do have a quorum next item is approval of minutes of August 21st 2024 you all have a chance I assume to read the minutes are there any additions or corrections to make the minutes anyone care to make a motion Mr grd uh Mr chairman after reading the minutes I make a motion we approve them as presented second second second by member Charles all in favor please signify by saying I I I'll oppose motion passed there uh Chelsea will you read the Quasi judicial confirmation procedure yes sir good evening the notice on today's agenda provides that all persons who anticipate speaking on any public hearing item must fill out an oath card to be heard on that agenda item and sign the oath contained thereon these cards are located on the table near the entrance to the council chamber or may be obtained from the recording secretary this meeting will be conducted in accordance to the procedures adopted in resolution number 24-1 1997 those speaking in favor of a request will be heard first those opposed will be heard second and those who wish to make a public comment on the item will speak third the applicant may make a brief rebuttal if necessary a representative from either side for or against May cross-examine a witness anyone who speaks is considered a witness if you have photographs sketches or documents that you desire for the commission to consider they must be submitted into evidence and will be retained by the city please submit such exhibits to the recording secretary okay there is no consent agenda there's nothing under o business where there's new business item 9A small scale amendment number one 2024 staff hi good evening uh Christy Anderson senior planner the applicant is requesting to amend the property to the city's low density residential and conservation future land use designation and to rezone to the plan development PD zoning district with master plan the applicant is requesting a smallscale comprehensive plan Amendment with rezoning and master plan on approximately 38.6 5 Acres uh for purposes of constructing a uh town home Community with residential amenities consisting of 70 individually platted town home units the property is vacant woodlands and currently has a future land use uh designations of low density residential commercial high intensity and conservation and have General use neighborhood commercial and open space and recreational zoning designations the uh 38 uh plus acre property includes 24 .73 Acres of wetlands and has approximately 14.23 Acres M Mr chairman I recognized that the agenda was um Modified by our bylaws modification at the last meeting and there may be a delay in the way that the agenda software has modified our itinerary our agenda but in the bylaws modification that was approved by the Planning and Zoning commission at the last meeting you all asked for petitions and requests to replace number six consent agenda items and so that is what the agenda should say and I don't want to forego that opportunity and I will remind anyone in the audience that petitions and requests is meant for anything that is not on the agenda and there's two locations of the petitions and requests that have been added to the bylaws the second one comes at the end number 10 of the agenda but there should be one here at number six and I wanted to remind you of that and our apologies for the type of so we're hear any citizens to be heard at this point for a non-agenda item anyone in the audience okay I'll close the public hear and proceed Christie okay just continuing where I left off um the 38 plus acre property includes approximately 24.73 Acres of wetlands and has approximately 14.23 Acres of a developable area in which 4.99 Acres of parks in open space have been proposed the proposed design has limited Wetland impacts to under3 acres the proposed PD ordinance limits the permitted uses on the property to 70 town home units with a minimum living unit area of 800 square ft with supporting infrastructure site improvements including vehicular access Associated parking sidewalks residential amenities including multi-use paths walking trails benches and informational placards on Native vegetation and Wildlife recreational Lawns for multi-use recreation a male kiosk and a Rec recreational lawn in Grill area permitted accessory uses will be limited to recreational amenities their proposed master plan has been provided on page 66 of your packets and staff has found that the comprehensive plan future land use small scale map amendment is consistent with the city's comprehensive plan the rezoning and conditions of approval are consistent with the proposed land use Amendment City's comprehensive plan and Land Development regulations including PD and rezoning criteria described in section 33-8 and 34-40 of the code the master plan is also consistent with the proposed land use Amendment City's comprehensive plan Land Development regulations and master plan requirements described in chapter 34 Article 2 division three of the code staff had Rec has recommended approval of the comprehensive plan future land use map Amendment and PD rezoning with master plan with the following conditions of approval as described in the resoning ordinance as provided on page 60 of your packets and I'm just going to read the proposed conditions uh number one a final recreational plan shall be submitted with a sketch plat that illustrates the proposed recreational amenities including interconnected stabilized sidewalks and walking trails within the open space area and conforms to the minimum required open space acreage number two side setbacks will be increased by 1T for every 2 ft of Building height over 35 ft as measured from the boundary of the PD number three the developer shall work with the city to adjust the layout of the master plan to achieve the preservation of the Upland scrub Pine and Oaks were feasible Heritage trees should to the extent possible be preserved with the submittal of the sketch plat number four buildings may be Rel relocated or rearranged outside the required landscape buffers within the area identified as the developable acreage as stated in the conditions 1.7 of the ordinance and as Illustrated the master plan in exhibit B and number five direct impacts to Wetlands number one or Wetlands number three um in addition to that which is Illustrated on the master plan will require an amendment to the plan development ordinance and master plan and that's all I have unless you have some questions from staff well I just want to point out for the commission and for the audience these this is going to be taken in two separate uh hearings the first one is all the property north of 405 including the Forest Hills neighborhood is that right including the sorry can you Forest Hills neighborhood the the north PD will be SE is a separate request the second hearing which is 9B will cover to the South surrounding the Forest Hills Baptist Church correct two separate uh hearings okay are there any questions of the staff Mr grod uh one question on the con recommendations I believe it's number three the second sentence Heritage trees should be to the extent possible be preserved with submittal of a sketch plat uh was there a reason that staff didn't seek preservation and a more directive kind of comment pertaining to preservation as opposed to suggestion um well staff um proposed that that be increase to be reviewed under the sketch plat as well um so that was kind of an increased uh a review on that but um as I'm just saying the word should versus shall if the intention is to preserve the trees it would be more directive to recommend they shall be preserved to the extent possible if there's scientific evidence presented the trees in poor health there's an impact caused unexpectedly an act of God or anything of that nature then you wouldn't preserve it but if you only ask somebody should then I wouldn't say they would have to um I mean we could CH suggest a different language there from should to shall I don't know if that would change the intent of the the condition it would still it still have to adhere to what the code requirement is as far as a process and if they're going to re go through the process to remove a Heritage tree whatever that code requirement is whether it should or shall so if we can clarify if you want to just kind of strengthens the language to say that they are going to have to adhere to what the process is we did as chrisy stated though we did add an additional step so that the Heritage tree review or any tree mitigation review be handled at the sketch black process so you're going to get another bite of the Apple when that process is brought before you you get to see what exactly what that where they're Lo at and have some additional information which is typically not the process and I think I understand that's typical but in the case of what I'm summarizing staff reviews sees an identification of Heritage trees by survey makes a site visit sees healthy trees and makes a determination these should be preserved if you have a code that requires preservation then it would be redundant to have the language if it's not a suggestion but a directive then I would suggests the word shall be supplemented instead of should just to be clear the code does allow a Heritage tree to be removed through a process they have to justify it's just an extra step than our typical tree preservation mitigation process so it does require Heritage tree to be brought before a development Review Committee and justify through that process so at best that would be redundant language then we wanted to emphasize that the layout that you see here is not fixed that if there are opportunities to move the building or other infrastructure ancillary infrastructure on the property on the development to help preserve a tree we want that opportunity sure I I fully understand this my opinion is that they should be directive if the attempt is to preserve them I've heard a few projects here recently where there were some concerns voiced that preserved trees didn't end up preserved or preserved trees were removed and they wondered if it was a code violation if the alarm needs to be activated that the concerns pretty pretty strong then I would suggest the language reflect that by using Word words like shall as opposed to subjective word like should my opinion thank you member moso yes um I actually have two questions um my first question is um the entrance on Hill Crest is that absolutely necessary to have that interest go through a local neighborhood or is this project able to proceed with only one um Ingress and egress um well I mean it's I mean is the attent to extend that street stub out that's existing to provide that that access to the existing neighborhood to be able to to cross through as well um as far as like what what does our code require I I do not believe the the amount of units would would require two access points um it I can try and answer that generally you want to have a development to have pass through to through each other so you don't want to have Standalone dead ends and subdivisions if you can create those access points especially when there's an it was built with a stub out to connect to an expansion eventually and have a pass through to going to an arterial or collector that's ideal that's ideal Transportation Planning n planning that's ideal in um just in the planning field as well making sure you have a lot of cross connections to distribute traffic I appreciate that um I'll be interested to hear what the public have to say on that um my second question is um we're seeing a lot of zoning changes to PD and I'm just curious uh why is this being and this might be a question for the applicant why are we rezoning to a PD because with that the density increases now I know we're only talking about tow houses and with the square footage it's 8 800 square feet we're not going to get tall buildings but that increases our um the ability with a PD zoning to go to 50 ft and so I'm just curious if you know or this might be a question for the applicant why we're going to a PD and not um rezone to R2 um I don't think in this case that the density was what they were looking for because they're still proposing a low residential density development um likely it's the flexibility with the setbacks um on on the site is primarily um they did propose a maximum height of 50 feet I don't believe that they're going to be going up to that height I I think that they're going to be proposing two stories average 35 feet in height um so that's why we felt um with that kind of open-ended height limit um to be consistent with our other zoning districts that allow kind of those higher buildings to allow um for those increased setbacks is part of one of our conditions so anything over 35 ft is going to start eating away at those setbacks which will require the buildings to be pushed back from the existing boundary yeah I think my concern is we've seen um a few projects come before us and the plan that they present is something that is favorable to the surrounding neighborhood um and then whenever the the project gets rezoned we find out that it's a completely different project that's going to be put there so the the 50 fet for me is is a bit concerning um as well yeah staff staff felt like that that adding that additional condition with the setbacks would alleviate that but the applicant can probably go into more detail about the proposed buildings any other questions for the staff well I have one um in there is an environmental assessment and not much is redacted from that that's a good thing does that cover both the North and the South yes uh so the environmental assessment was done for both uh properties okay any other questions okay we'll open the public hearing and first we'll hear from the applicant you had to turn that mic on yeah good evening everyone uh my name is LESA kby I'm with kimley horon Associates representing the applicant uh today we have the applicant in uh in the building as well as their land use attorney um so I'll start off um so first I'll State my address our office address is 7341 office Parkplace Melbourne Florida 32940 so if you I can address your first comment if you'd like so to Christy's Point earlier uh the 50 Foot Building height is the PD maximum height uh at this point there uh the building elevations are not fully complete where we would note if 35 ft is acceptable or if it's closer to 36 37 ft for Building height it would be a typical two-story town home so it's looking like it will be very similar in in size to a two-story residence uh in one of the adjacent neighborhoods um and we are in acceptance with staff's condition of approval of uh increasing setbacks from the PD boundary uh to kind of limit that flexibility in regard to Building height while still allowing some flexibility uh without limiting it to 35 ft did you have any other questions you wanted perfect so uh I just wanted to give a a than staff we're in agreement with their conditions of approval um we've worked closely with Christy and her team at the city throughout this resoning and small scale land use amendment process uh and so I just wanted to hit a couple highlight points for the project before we open it up um the current zonings uh at this the north project um are neighborhood commercial General use open uh space Recreation uh and I believe those are it and so with this we'd be moving to as you noted a plan development uh and then the land use Associated are high-intensity commercial and lowdensity residential and conservation we moving to lowdensity residential and conservation with this application we'd be moving to uh I'll say Rectify some areas of existing wetlands in those areas that are currently not within a conservation land use but are greater than 5 acres in size to be consistent with city of Titusville code so if you see there's an area where we're zoning to conservation it's uh based on our updated Wetland delineation so I wanted to note that and then the remainer would be zoned PD with a low density residential land use the low density residential land use is pretty consistent with the surrounding neighborhoods we're proposing 70 Town hone units it's a lower density and lower traffic trips than a neighborhood commercial project would be in that area we're proposing uh to staff's earlier point interconnectivity between Hill crust drive and and one uh connection off of Singleton Avenue we're not proposing any connections off of South Street to limit the number of driveways on that fdot road uh we are proposing Wetland buffers adjacent to all of the wetlands minimum 15 foot average 25 ft to allow some separation between the limits of those formal wetlands and some developable area we're exceeding the open space Recreation requirement as per the PD and to staff's earlier point the reason we were searching the PD is the R2 zoning wasn't exactly right for a town home community and some of the single single family zoning districts had very larger uh lot lines that didn't also fit a town home community so the PD allowed us some flexib in proposing different lot lines and setbacks that were more in accordance with a typical town home lot while still allowing um to follow through with the open space Recreation uh of required of a PD and and other Associated items of development standards the only other item I wanted to note is that uh we are proposing minimal Wetland impact so the the project is significantly wooded with a lot of wetlands I believe the Wetland it's about 24 Acres of wetland for the 38 acre property we have about 14 acres of developable area and we're proposing very minimal Wetland impacts mostly just to make that connection to Singleton Avenue and Hillcrest terrace I have a question for you absolutely uh see where you have an entrance on Singleton Avenue directly across from that existing single family home development that single family home development doesn't wouldn't have near the traffic that this development would are you providing Exel and Dell Lanes with the current traffic study that was done as part of this project they didn't feel uh and the findings didn't show that they needed in any Dell Lanes outside of that uh it was done for a unit count of 196 between the two projects and a higher unit count on the North I'm not satisfied with that comment um member of mus go so um it's it's my understanding that many people purchase their homes um knowing that behind them was um a conservation and so my question is would would the um the owner be willing to put the land in a conservation easement what land behind the because we've done this on some other projects when we've had like wetlands and things like that we've we've been able to um ask the owner to put it into an e like a conservation easement and so that um it cannot be developed on in the future what portion of land are you speaking about if you don't so we've got Hill Crest where you're trying to enter Southern portion right there the portion I guess to the North and North part of the property that goes up uh near Singleton okay I think uh if I'm remembering the master plan correctly and I'm not sure if we could show that on the screen at all or not but there's only about two adjacent lots that back up to what I would say a 30ft setback and then the the building majority of it of the existing Lots will continue to back up to Wetlands which will be in a conservation land use and some already are okay thank you I think you were referring to the part that is poeta I believe it is divides it uh divides it into two parts you were concerned about does that um where it divides it well there's one that's on South Street you're right on poinsetta um that part which is I think you're keeping as conservation there's nothing that's going to be built on that but I and I'll have to go through and um I can probably answer your question in a second when I look at it again but I felt like there was more Wetlands closer to where the um town homes are being built yes that yes thank you appreciate both wet the designated areas of wetlands both the northern section and the section ofs um 405 those are the two the big chunks understood those will be proposed in conservation land use and it would be in a a conservation and chrisy did you want to weigh in and and it's also going to be required to be shown as a tract on the plat as well uh as part of the PD boundary in addition to the conservation future land use um I think page 103 shows those existing areas it's kind of a good snapshot and I'll add that the the PD limits show and include some of those Wetland areas uh so it's it's zoned as a PD but there are if you look at what our future Lage or small scale Amendment request is um we're keeping those Wetland areas as conservation they're just within the formal limits of the PD project member Gad um I guess I would like to ask um our attorney a question in procedure we're going through a comprehensive plan Amendment the discussions are focused on some of the more specific site development criteria site development concessions site development standards proposed by the applicant we are then going to hear the PD resoning request in our discussion and questions and answers uh appropriately motions and recommendations and conditions may be more appropriately placed on the PD as opposed to trying to conditionally or recommend alter alternative standards within the comprehensive plan Amendment or is this heard as one hearing approving one leads to the approval the others so conditional approval effect becomes part of the motion would be placed on the comprehensive plan Amendment as opposed to the PD resoning I'm used to that lad being more appropriate on the PD as opposed to yeah there won't be conditions on the land use Amendment correct so we can have this discussion but further discussions and rebuttal and answers and questions on those will be more appropriate in the PD hearing right yes the agenda is being um held as one item for both the quas judicial and legisla decision first you will make a decision on the future land use map Amendment and then the resoning ordinance which is separate we'll have a separate decision ideally we'll do it that way but the conversation is on both at this time and that's the the fundamental my question i' I've got some questions who are very specific to the development proposal that would be appr for the PD zoning canally approving the comprehensive plan Amendment so I'm going to hold my questions till we get PD she's saying do now do it now so it's all all the eggs are in one basket thank you then if I may continue I have some questions for the applicant um earlier you heard some concerns regarding the connection to Hill crest Terrace I believe it's called and you have a single access point for 70 town homes on Singleton um the purpose of dual accesses is also for emergency purposes emergency purpose access can be provided without vehicular access for the general public it can also be provided for pedestrian bicycle and alternative transportation modes other than vehicle trips another point of observation it's only an estimate but your internal roadways 1500 1700 feet in length other than the curve it's going to be almost a th000 feet probably close 800,000 ft of straightaway but the problem is the straightaway continues on up Hill Crest all the way to Singleton I mean all the way to Tropic with an exceptional curve uh your transportation Engineers spent a lot of time discussing a lot of the ADT the average daily trips peak hour PM turning movements uh the uh degree of U of analysis was thorough there's little question that this 70 unit project can add traffic without excessive traffic over and above the level of service and I appreciate staff pointing out that you've got projects underway on 405 South Street where they're putting sidewalks in I noticed that construction and wondered what they were doing improving shoulders so that's good we had a project recently that uh the recommendation went because it was multiple family and didn't have any other alternative access other than Vehicles they had no sidewalks they had no way to connect to sidewalks it was a bad place to do that where pedestrians can't uh utilize those systems in your project you got the good news you have a sidewalk on Singleton you got a sidewalk on 405 South Street you have no sidewalk on uh Hillcrest so pedestrians will more likely not be walking in the street if they chose to walk that way my particular point is I think your project um has an excessive residential length Street when you connect it more so than what you have but it's itself I believe excessive and when you extend it into Hill Crest um you're going to attract Speedy people are going to shortcut Transportation Norms they're not going to go up to Tropic and turn left to go to Singleton they're going to take the quick route or and other directions going west or I guess that would actually be South on South Street and that is a concern to me uh excessive Street links in residential neighborhoods so in my opinion and I hopefully you can address that as an alternative to connecting to uh Hillcrest for vehicular traffic connect to it for emergency access Breakaway Gates connect to it for pedestrian access with sidewalks uh or create a traffic calming design you have adequate areas right there at your entrance where you should be able to provide for that by traffic caling a traffic engineer knows what that means perhaps everybody knows but there's all kinds of Alternatives I've mentioned that in other projects where leave it to the design professionals that can reduce the vehicular straightway with a with a an objective to calm the traffic not stop it and in that sense prevent someone from speeding down a straight Street in this case that could be thousands of feet long and uh that and essentially does happen I don't think it's something that may happen it's something that does happen so my question to you which would you prefer if you were asked the choice I would prefer to have a design alternative including a traffic calming device and we would explore that in the site development plan with the intention to limit straight through vehicular traffic alternative save the money create a pedestrian access create a multimodal access for bicycles or skateboards but don't promote vehicular access into the neighborhood and back out of that neighborhood frankly through your neighborhood the Speeders go both ways so the whole neighborhood is affected by that what what would you what would you think to that I did Rich I'm not sure if you wanted to weigh in on on this at all about I don't want to speak in uh on behalf of the applicant and uh tell them what they need to do um but I'll say on on the traffic end uh K horn traffic engineer in Orlando office had done the original report um and so if uh staff and if conditions of approval noted them to look at that traffic study and propose different traffic calming methods or um use it for emergency access only then that can be added to the report at the time of um PR preliminary platin construction plan site plan approval to your point well that my point is I would anticipate at least my opinion is I'm looking for one of the two Alternatives I'm not looking for a report on traffic volumes that can use that straightway street and I would also point out and I I may have not read it I Tried reading all 829 Pages there was a lot of analysis done at the turning points Singleton uh at 405 405 at G all that was was was thoroughly evaluated I could be wrong correct me if I am I saw no analysis for um Highland Terrace at Tropic street so conversely if we don't limit the traffic the traffic is going to go to an intersection which dimed to a donut says it's going to impact that intersection not very well and impede traffic flows and create a problem but it however was not addressed that I can find within the traffic analysis understood and and often when we go back in you know we provided the preliminary traffic study as part of the rezoning it kind of analyzes overall traffic patterns and uh what the anticipated offsite improvements could be and then we'll need to resubmit a traffic study with a preliminary platin construction plant package at which point normally the traffic engineer irons out methodology with the engineering uh staff at city of Titusville um and so that will go over the streets that they analyze and so if that is one that needs to be added to the analysis at that juncture by staff when they flush out their methodology and streets to be included within that analysis that can be updated then so to your point no it was not included in that initial preliminary study but if that is an area or Highland and Tropic is an intersection that due to the cross through um needs and the city and Staff feel need to be added to the study scope that can be added uh because a traffic study would need to be provided as I mentioned with the site plan and construction pan package sure or you can save all that effort and simply not connect for vehicular traffic and make it a lot easier my opinion thank you member Rogers um so um I I was a little unclear on something uh that was said um you have some sort of and perhaps this is addressed to Brad as well but you have uh some sort of agreement about setbacks uh Min minimum or maximum setbacks with the city at this time you're in you said that you were applying for the PD or someone said you were applying for the PD um and that it gave you the ability to adjust setbacks but but you were basically you had sort of had an agreement that the setbacks would be no closer to the road than x correct so um I I'll touch on that so I meant more setbacks of a particular individual lot for the town homes uh you know say a 5 foot side set pack a 25 foot rear set pack items like that in a PD you're able to kind of propose your own lot lines and so in a R2 zoning that is more typical for a standard maybe multif family apartment complex where your setbacks are more thinking it's going to be you know a 50 foot building your setback might be significantly more than a 20 foot Town H home lot so a PD allows you to propose those particular setbacks that are more specific to those individual platted Lots while still adhering to the minimum buffer and setback requirements set forth so we have a 30-ft landscape buffer adjacent to 405 we have 32 ft minimum adjacent to um the the edge of the building to the the edge of um anyone in the adjacent subdivision uh and when it comes to additional setbacks agreed with staff and the conditions of approval it's more on the building height because we went for the the designated PD Building height if anything over 35 ft uh increases the setback from the PD boundary of that of that limits of building does that answer your question yes because that's kind of where the question was going I I too like m musosa um Building height is kind of my big thing I I really don't like very tall buildings and um in particular in areas of this sort um and uh so I guess if I've got this right then you know you say well you know in good faith you know our intentions are to build only to 35 ft but um you know but then once you've got the change if um somebody wanted to go to 50 they could but that means you've got to move it back another 15 feet from the uh from the PD boundary from the PD boundary so that would be that is uh staff's condition in the conditions of approval okay I I hope that's a sufficient motivation to to keep the buildings to 35 ft but I guess and I'll also just add that they also have to meet all the other requirements set forth in the master plan so the same you know rear side front setbacks um you know General Building footprint that we provided you know typical building Footprints for a four and a six unit town home build building and so uh you know the the ordinance reads a particular unit a particular density those sign those you know identified setbacks and so um if we were to significantly change anything that would be approved we would have to be coming back in front of you all to to propose that as well okay and just one more question um you said you you work with kimley horn correct um is there Melbourne office the main office uh we have multiple offices but the Melbourne office is the the one that usually uh works on projects in Titusville and and you work out of that one correct I work in and um what percentage at least of your office would you say of your um your workload is for individual developers who are doing developments in Bard County or maybe it's a bigger space but um out of our staff members uh I would say maybe have to do private development and and a you know a good chunk do public sector work as well okay I just there has been some discussion a little bit of concern that kimley horn who I understand is very well respected company um besides representing individual developers is also helping um Titusville to kind of rewrite its comprehensive plan and um there has been some concern that there is a potential for conflict of interests there um so I'm not really asking a question I'm just I was curious to know I'm I'm I'm actually relieved to hear that it's a 50/50 I was kind of thinking it might be 9010 um no definitely not 9010 I I'd say it's 6040 is probably a closer mix um we have folks that do water Wastewater work for a lot of the municipalities around here as well as Master storm water planning Aviation planning um items like that and and in our office in particular for the services that we provide and then all the staff that also assists out of Orlando or Beach offices um do a really good job of delineating that so if anyone's you know if someone's working on a private sector project like I am here in Titusville I'm not working on uh the city of Titusville public sector work I'm glad to hear that thank you okay before I call Vice chairman Aton is it true that kimley Horn's headquarters is in Charlotte North Carolina our headquarters is in Raleigh our main office that serves uh the Titusville Market is in our Melbourne office so it's not a small firm it's a nationwide firm yeah we have multiple offices throughout Florida Vice chairman Aon uh my question is more of a clarification uh education educating me more than anything we we talked about the and this is more for staff I think is is that the the conservation designation that we talked about versus a conservation easement I think the goal is that nothing can ever get built there do they both accomplish the same thing or is there one a stronger than the other the issue with easements is they have to go to someone and if no one is available to receive them they're not going to be created so um we believe in our comp plan and our code allow for the ability to preserve Wetland areas or conservation areas as part of a tract as part of a plaque so it's a little harder to change that later on especially when all the lots are sold because now every property owner has an individual stake in that whole development so to go back way to make it impossible to change nothing's impossible um but it does make it much uh harder to do um I think it probably provides more um protection than some of the other tools that we have available just as as an example if this project were to not move forward and somebody were to purchase the vacant land they could easily submit an application for a small scale Amendment as you're hearing today that would change the boundaries of whatever may be decided or what currently exists with conservation either coming or going based on the Wetland survey and as Brad stated a conservation e easement is a legal agreement between the landowner and another entity that accepts the responsibility of maintaining that easement one other thing I want to add about the putting this land into a tract as part of a approved plant the association or the property owners have to agree to amend it if if someone wants to try and use one of those Parcels to develop on maybe not impossible but it's very okay thank you okay do um member gr uh I had an additional question on the town homes height that's been discussed and you mentioned earlier 35 feet typically it m Varian sees Town Homes between 24 and 40 ft seldomly have I encountered a town home whose maximum height is 50 m one of the difficulties when you establish a PD as a Zone District you have a set of standards and if you want to alter those or alter your project you amend the PD if your foot's in the door with 50 feet you choose not to amend it you could come back and say I'd really prefer to do a different type of building perhaps it isn't fee simple sold Town Homes perhaps it's a taller building to a Ford first floor commercial neighborhood businesses more the motif of uh neighbor neighborhood design now um but the 50 ft wouldn't be an amendable standard it'd be a 50 foot high so my point is your project as proposed I don't believe needs a 50 foot maximum height wherein if you were to be allowed a 40 foot height you'd be in keeping with the standards that are more accustomed to that type of project design 24 to 40 foot high Town Homes I don't think it would restrict your development I don't think it restrict your architecture design that has yet to come by choosing 50 on the other hand it seems like it sets up a potential problem where you have a 50- foot high building notwithstanding a 30 foot setback behind a neighborhood residential single family home so I'm also of the opinion that may be an excessive height and I'm equally of the opinion I think you could live with a 40 foot height be well within an envelope for architectural design second question is on the building design so Town Homes interior units of course don't have side windows the end units can be designed to afford side windows or not do you know if your design is going to provide for side window views more particularly in the concerned area is right there where the proposed uh Road connection is in the single family homes that are going to have someone 50 feet in the air looking down into their yards and there's not much of a buffer you're going to do to prevent that perhaps in 20 or 30 years with tree growth it might but initially it could be eliminated if you chose to Simply restrict the design and architectural standard to remove the window portals so that you don't have a view to what would be I guess the Northeast direction is that something you could see working or maybe it's already been planned that way so so I'll I'll talk to the the windows first at this time there's not a one way or the other if there will be or won't be windows at that we haven't gotten to that juncture in architectural design I believe there's only one unit that based on the master plan would be within I think it's 32 ft is the setback from uh the adjacent neighborhood and so majority of those side units would be facing other town home units um majority of the back windows would be either facing 405 with the landscape buffer or the Wetland areas um when it comes to the applicant U we would we could discuss yeah provide please provide your name y Richard rosalo RMR Development Group I represent the owner of the property what we had already intended to do is to go ahead and provide additional buffering landscape buffering along that area uh to alleviate some of those concerns when it comes to architectural details we're not ultimately going to be the end Builder so this is ultimately going to get sold to some home builder um to go ahead and construct that so we won't have anything to do with regards to the architecture whether they have side bu side windows or not side windows but what we can do and we have already discussed is some additional buffering there and I appreciate the buffering again I'm of the opinion buffering is adequate when it's full grown it would seem as you put on the record you only have one unit to be concerned with and it would seem likely since you're not the Builder you're the developer and the project gets sold to somebody who builds it that a conditional approval that would restrict portals viewing Northeast from that one unit would be an acceptable restriction that shouldn't shouldn't prevent any architect from designing a unit that's only one of 70 that wouldn't have portals personally having come from the home builder world that does provide some additional challenges um as many homebuilders already have these units designed it's pretty much off the shelf um so restricting any form of side windows on the end units um would certainly be a challenge we'd look for other Alternatives there that'd be interesting hear what your alternatives are planting Landscaping on a 50 foot high building or restrict the height so that youd be in more keeping with the tree planting that would allow growth to possibly provide that buffer in a more adequate time period than 20-year buildout with tree growth I'm just not in favor of setting it up that way and I don't I don't see the buffer and you're the ones that are budding the neighborhood's residential existing conditions maybe perhaps they're not great conditions I don't per personally understand stand or know that lot or what that intersection looks like but for me what can occur will occur and when that occurs it creates a a difficulty for existing homeowners that didn't particularly want to see that just an opinion again this is something I'll discuss as we get to the Motions thank you anything else you would like to put uh the only item I wanted to just clarify is back to uh member Roger's Point um speaking when I was talking through 6040 approximately split I was mostly talking about our Melbourne office in particular so um I just wanted to clarify that since you did bring up you know kimorn is a multi- um office multi-state company and So speaking on the experience of our local Bard County Office uh thank you for that clarification okay I I did have one more since she came back to me man go ahead I just um we have heard from kimly horn and we've heard from um the owner current owner um of the intention not to go you know much higher than 34 35 36 feet um but but those are not the people who are going to be making those decisions in the future so I I am a little nervous about the uh about the 50 ft U possibility there any other questions okay is there someone else from the applicant speak good evening my name is Anna long I'm an attorney with the law firm of D located in Melbourne um I do 50% of my work just so you're aware in the Orlando office and 50 now 60% of my work in Bard County because it's growing um I wanted to go back across the board because as you were speaking with our folks from kimley horn I was taking notes and I'm going to try to address those so before the public gets up if there's things that were of concern and we have talked amongst maybe that will help um and if not I'll take more notes all right um with respect to the uh Heritage trees perhaps some additional language that goes to the effective shall be preserved to the greatest extent possible and as further detailed and set forth in the city's code now you're tying your condition back to your code so it makes it very clear that no matter what the process is in the end you comply with the code okay um with respect back to the um PD I think that's been kind of discussed at nauseum um we'll have further discussions but the 50 ft height is more to the issue of architectural design that it is for livable space I do understand your concern that if I'm not doing the uilding maybe I get really clever and put some crawl space up there and then I do this and then I do that so perhaps further discussion about that is warranted I think what needs to be is a little give and take so that it's not strictly at what would be typically a 35t height to allow some intricate or interesting AR architectural features because then the next comments we generally get from staff across the board are boy that's really boring looking and we don't want it to look like a bunch of row houses and we want something that's appealing and we want a new product and people that are going to buy we don't want them vacant all of those things go into the thought process of any developer coming in because in the end nobody's going to build something to lose money um one of the issues you had is connectivity making it a condition of approval as an and or excuse me of an or statement is not going to give anybody angina so when the final traffic report is uh presented to the city and it goes to the effect of when the traffic Port is updated uh the traffic engineer will look at either traffic calming devices or or um an emergency o emergency entrance only in and out of the Hill Crest area as well as looking at uh Hill Highland Terrace at Tropic Street I believe is what she said okay so putting those things in as they will be looked at and a determination as to what will work best but to making an or statement so that the developer has the opportunity to explore options instead of being locked in one way or or another I think gives you what you're concerned about that also gives some flexibility without doing this all over again um with respect to conservation designation that's been at nauseum but essentially putting in and as they've set as track gives everybody the opportunity come back to you as well as um city council to say whoa wait a minute what did you say there and in addition to that while they're going through the process of Permitting and dealing with their Master storm water plan they also have to address the Water Management District's issues so most of that area if not all will also be under a conservation recorded easement right now not because there's not that third-party oversight but when you go through the permitting process that's what happens right in order to get the storm water system in and in order to do the development they're going to have to have green space not only for you but for the state as well um I think so one last thing the uh end unit that you suggested can we take the windows off and you heard that that would be a difficult thing because again most Builders do have a product and it's going to look like this and if I can make it look like that then I can build it at less even if I make the facade a bit different they are willing and um the developer confirmed to place um trees in landscaping that are more robust at the get-go so mature opaque screening as opposed to uh saplings uh and I think that that would hopefully take care of your concern of it's you know going to take 10 years versus 20 and tree forms come in so they could put those trees up immediately that give you from day one what I think you're looking for okay member fa uh good afternoon good evening so mentioning finances and mentioning money uh right now we are having a housing Sage crisis throughout America so as you guys come in and want to build new buildings um here in this area here I have a question for you do you know what the Ami is of Titusville I do not you do not okay so the Ami right now has increased over the last few years from 54,000 to 71,000 so when talking about building and making a profit my question to you is what will be the price of these homes and will there be affordable or attainable housing for the local residents that live here currently and to answer that question you'd have to basically have the the builder at the end right the the developer of the land and is the one that comes in and gets the entitlements to the property and why they can't commit to a lot of the other details that you're asking for tonight is they're not going to be that entity so I can't answer your question because I don't represent ultimately whom will be building but I will say this it would be really foolish to build something that isn't affordable to the greatest extent possible of the people living in the area that you expect to purchase those properties because then where are you going with your product great so that's that's a great point we're currently right now right the home prices in Titusville are anywhere from 280,000 350,000 and with a with an Ami of 74 of $71,000 when do 30% of your income that's unaffordable so I would not say that it's foolish I'd say currently that's our problem right now in city of Titusville there are many builders that are building there are many Builders excuse me ma'am there are many builders that are building right now building homes that are not for the current residents who live here so hence that's my question to you see we see this every day that when Builders come here they're building for what they call market rate but market rate doesn't take into account the current residence and the current Ami of this area hence my question to you okay and so now so some of the suggestions that were raised to you for example Building height helps to lower the cost of of construction same way same ways removing that window on the outside helps lower the cost of construction so there are many things that Builders can do to lower the cost of construction to meet the need of today's current residents and that's my question to you Ma'am then I would suggest that those questions as well as those conditions are better addressed a little later in the process when you submit your site plan when you are submitting various um um architectural renderings what you're doing right now is simply doing the comp plan and the rezoning to get to you know potentially your height uses and your density but you're not to the point here where you are fine-tuning that end product um and until the end Builder is you know the lined up to do that I think it would be premature to expect those answers to be available to anybody that came before you in all honesty and it's not just here by the way that problem is all over I mean even when I'm working and I do work so we're all aware of many affordable housing builders those that have taken the advantage of the live local act those that are taking advantage of brownfields um I I do them all and hear them all I I can't force people into a particular product and do it this way but we certainly as we're going through it discuss all of the potential options um for having those different types of products available in of the municipalities um and Ami um over in some pockets of the um Orlando Orange County area when I hear the numbers I just don't think that can be possible I don't I don't think I I don't understand and that's the honest truth member gar I I just wanted to clarify when you were talking 50 foot in my comment I was speaking towards a maximum 40 ft which is Affordable by standard typical designs and from what I'm hearing it's going to be a box design provided by somebody that builds Town Homes the developer and the Builder are two different entities so restricting it to 40 feet may complement the robust Landscaping you mentioned and if a condition of approval includes the language you had for robust Landscaping in lie of restricting portals on that one unit facing Northeast on the project that's fine the language I'm sure staff can get the concept from if that becomes a conditional approval together with the comment was in the 35 foot maximum I was looking at I wanted to leave enough leeway between typical town home he as you mentioned boxes that are rectangular and two stories tall or 30 or 2 24 feet and you get architectural designs you get to 35 I was giving five more feet for flexibility I just believe 50 is unnecessary thank you member moso yeah I I appreciate the additional education but what I would say is um by the time the builders are involved we're going to be out of the picture so we won't have a say and so I think we have to make a decision based off the information that we receive right now I appreciate that any other questions anything else you have to say yes sir thank you thank you anyone else representing the applicant okay uh when she pulls the cards remember that there're two different uh hearings one is now on the North side and there'll be a public hearing after this for the South Side so if you can um make your comments about the north side of this development cards Steve leadford hello my name is Steve leadford I live at 2730 9 Hillcrest Avenue um we back up to the wetlands and that's what I would like to speak to for a few minutes primarily the impact of the wetlands we bought our house 20 over 20 years ago I'm a 40-year Titusville resident and uh when we bought our home we bought it because of where the location is it's on a culdesac it's backed up to the woods and one of the first things one of my neighbors said to me was Steve you live in a great location the best thing about living here is you're backed up to a Wetlands that will never be developed and I knew immediately that was not true that all it would take would be a developer that came in with a slick and Polished Proposal with Deep Pockets who could come in and start spending time around our city council members spending time with maybe our planning and zoning and rezoning could occur and this very thing could happen where we are today so I represent a lot of people from our neighborhood that are very concerned about this we're talking height limits we're talking buildings very close to our backyards uh that Wetland is a designed Wetland on purpose it's what it is it controls the the flow after we have rain uh during regular summer rainfall events like we've been having recently there are sometimes inches of water standing on the sidewalk on Singleton Avenue as I walk the perimeter of my neighborhood I either have to walk in the street or get wet that's that's normal rainfall when we have a significant event like a hurricane two years ago or so when we had 20s something inches of rain in 24 hours literally some of my neighbors had water within several feet of their backyards if you increase the footprint and decrease the wetlands we I think are looking for at a disaster we could very possibly have flooding in our neighborhood and we're very concerned about that also the animals that are there I know this is a different subject but we have seen alligators we have seen Bobcats we have seen a hog we have seen an owl and heard an owl which I heard at 5:30 this morning my son's rescued a bald eagle that had come to Fallen to the ground a juvenile that our dog ran into the woods to see what it was and got its nose bloodied and came back so our boys uh we called fish and wildlife or the wildlife organization they came out and our sons participated in helping capture and rescue this Eagle it got rehabilitated they brought it back they let us know when they were coming and they released it back into the woods these are some things I know these are some things that my neighbors and I are concerned about and one of my other last thoughts is just that we feel put upon by this by this development we really do it's frustrating when we feel like the interests of a few are superseding the preferences of the many I want to thank you for your time pray we make the right decisions on this thank you thank youy I have a question where where abouts do you live in in relation to this project I'm on Hill Crest 2739 is the bend you get to the culdesac okay we're about six seven houses from the end of the culdesac and you said you guys get flooding right there in your neighborhood no in my neighborhood on Singleton oh on Singleton yeah I was I was wondering the same thing cuz that that corner is like a big hill there and I was thinking like how much if you build in that area how much of that is going to drain onto that onto the street there but um okay all right thank you exactly thank you thank you next card delori Sean Mira Bill thank you Shan Mory 2770 Hillcrest Avenue my comments are going to be about the proposal to cut a road from the development through Highland Terrace into the Forest Hills residential neighborhood uh on page one is a traffic impact study that was done with two access roads going into the development the one access north portion of the site will be provided with a full access connection on Singleton Avenue and one full access connection on South Street which is 405 uh page two has a the diagram that was with the traffic impact study showing the access road going from the development into 405 um page three is a survey the survey shows that there's an access road going from the middle of the development into 405 so why is the proposed site plan not showing an access road to four of five then on the concurrency statement it doesn't even mention 405 and I don't know why this is perhaps it's easier for the developer to cut the road through to Highland Terrace this should not be the first consideration the first consideration should be how will this road going into Forest Hills affect the neighborhood and it will affect it negatively this would be against the Land Development regulations for a PD and it's clearly stated that this is to be avoided excuse me um on page five there's the PD 33.5 a plan development shall be so located with respect to arterial streets to provide direct access to such PD without creating or generating traffic along local streets in residential areas or clusters 33.8 on page six the proposed development shall not negatively impact the quality of life for any adjacent residential uses negative impacts can include a decrease in property values and any substantial increase in noise or traffic Forest Hills is a single family residential neighborhood the homes are on quarter acre or larger lots and people take pride in their homes and maintain them well connecting a road into this development will have a large impact it will affect property values it will cause a substantial traffic burden do you need another minute yes thank you everybody agree for another minute okay continue the street is narrow with no sidewalks The increased flow of traffic will be putting residents at risk Walkers bike riders children of play I would say the proposal to bring this road into Forest Hill should not be approved and if you turn quickly to page seven there's a diagram that came with the uh the SES plot that came with the 404 site inspection for the uh environment Al impact plan and if you notice the straight street that ends at Hill Crest has something there called a primary impact area if you turn to seven it shows it a little bit better this is where houses back directly up onto the development on Hill Crest Avenue and where they want to put Highland terrorists through this area already has standing water when it rains and these one more just one I promise this okay one more this um so originally it was going to be 67 tow houses now it's 70 so I would suggest that the last three that are backing up to Hill Crest Avenue not be built and that there's already trees there that are 40 50 feet high so just leave the offer there to protect these people from flooding in their houses and there's a lot more that can be said about flooding and then uh topography and animals and goer tortoises and but I probably thank you I want to remind everyone that the uh city has established a thre minute time limit but if you need additional time uh just tell us and we'll see if the commission agrees to extend your time we're a lot more liberal than the city council is next card please Victoria [Music] Robinson hello um I'm at a loss I'm not a public speaker and I don't speak the langu anguage um just speak uh give us your name address Robinson 2775 Hill Crest Avenue thank you and the same thing I I live at the end of a culdesac with nothing but nature behind me a buffer from the road to Singleton um the wildlife is extensive you just got a very small I it's extensive and it's all going to suffer um the echol you know they want to maintain some of the wetlands but it's it's it's not a little thing it's a very big thing um there's going to be a strain on Services the potability of our water is already questionable um they want to raise uh our Wastewater fees which is going to be considerably worse with 70 more families um our community identity is a threat we are a tiny little neighborhood with uh elderly people some of which who can't come uh and voice their opinions um it's quiet and it's safe and it may or may not be with uh Town Homes there is no need for this it was Zone this way for a reason and it's not needed we aren't in desperate need of housing there are so many places that could be developed that are different and don't have um the things that they have that they have to to change um there's things places that could be improved um you keep they the applicant which I find really sterile the applicant um they keep talking about it as a small scale it's a huge scale for us it's not small it's huge um we're going to we lose our privacy um we lose the quiet we lose the animals because I guarantee you they're going to suffer with the construction the um the dust the noise the pollution the trucks um I can't imagine what the traffic is going to be like on South or Singleton during construction or after um I don't see any accountability because the people here who are ask who are asking you to rezone an area are not going to be the people who do anything and that was evident with our very first meeting um and and basically I I wonder who who who's going to oversee and who if if you allow this who's going to keep them to what they have promised that they're going to do um again I I just think I think every one of you should just take a ride or a walk down to Hillcrest it's not that far away it's right down the street and see the neighborhood and see the area that they want to develop um and that's all thank you thank you thanks card please Vicky Conlan I had actually a comment may I make a comment I just wanted to um make uh just tell the lady who was just speaking um I believe uh chelse you might right about this that it's actually um against the rules for us to go visit um a location that we're supposed to be voting on it's not recommended but well I won't just to clarify I hear a lot of chatter the reason for that is because it's a quasi judicial decision and the judges before you are making their decision based on the evidence presented before them and they're not supposed to go investigate on their own and if we've lived here any certain amount of time we've seen Forest Hills as con thank you for your time Vicki Conlin 2920 Royal Oak Drive here in Titusville first of all I'd like to ask you all I'm hearing a lot of folks saying we can't hear anything I continue to do this every time I'm at this Podium if y'all could lean into the mic when you speak it would help a lot because we're all having trouble hearing what you're saying and it's very valuable what you're saying I want to thank Brad and the staff 871 pages I read it all I'm not sure how many other people have but it was a lot to read but the enormous job that you have in putting all this together I really appreciate that because it's really uh very uh exhaustive but but very complete and I thank you for that and you and the staff I also would like to thank the residents they in a very short time they got all of these folks together to be able to represent I know the rule is 500 feet for notification most of these folks are without that 500 feet in limitation and so they had to work very hard uh in the past few days really to gather people and let them know what was going on and educate them and we have a good showing tonight for them to represent their neighborhoods they're very invested in their neighborhoods many of these homes were built in the 50s and 60s from what I could determine many longtime residents many others new but they're very concerned about their neighborhoods uh it seems that this has been two years in the process and using data from two years ago some of it's been updated but not all of it has I think A lot's changed probably in the past two years I think extending Highland is invasive to the established homes it really disrupts their neighborhood that's already established but also I think that the development looking like it could be 32 ft from the rear property of existing of existing homes is also pretty invasive when you think about that in stating the 50 Foot height even though you don't intend to do that as Mr Roger said if it's in the plan and the plan's approved you could do it still and 50 fet is higher than the tree canopy that the people would be looking at in their backyards the Optics of driving on both sides of the street I realize we're addressing in issue a but driving on both sides of the street and having lots of lots of town homes on both sides it's like a tunnel driving through I don't think that's the Optics that I want as a as a resident of Titusville to see as I'm driving down South Street I think we need to do a better job of what we have and not be hodg Podge kind of buildings so I would encourage the planning zoning as I always do every meeting is to be good stewards of the comprehensive plan I'm a real believer in the comprehensive plan it's there for a reason the commercial zoning is there for a reason this is a major intersection of a collector and arterial it deserves to be commercial not residential so I encourage you to stop giving away our commercial zoning we need it for stores we need it for shopping we need it for restaurants it's a prime location for a restaurant you could use the water features to really enhance that so I encourage you to follow the comprehensive plan and to deny this proposal thank you thank you next card please Cas child hello uh my name is k Charles 476 Fern um I I live uh north of South Street so I go through that area all the time especially going on South Singleton where South Street meets uh when it floods a lot it will or when it rains a lot it floods uh right there where the two streets meet now I'm for development in our town because we need more houses but I also like what Vicki just said where we need you know more restaurants would be nice um especially in that type of area I think if they were to uh do single family homes instead of town homes I think a lot of people would be more preferable to that um I haven't really spoke to most of the residents who live here um in that area but uh if they were to keep the tree line up on Singleton and there's an area that's uh I there's the area in the I think it's the 750 lot that is on the on the corner of Singleton South if they were to make that into a retention Pond uh and then develop on the east side of the neighborhood that's already there and make uh slowdowns because that's a 55 mph area area and I can't tell you how many time I I was going 55 down South Street and all of a sudden someone just breaks to turn into one of those neighborhoods there or that one anyway so some slowdowns tree lines retention Pond that would probably be preferable uh or like Vicki said maybe some some uh commercial property there but no matter what uh if they develop at all it's we're going to have a lot of traffic so definitely that road is going to have to end up being developed to better handle that amount of traffic that goes through there because already uh if you are going down there for time to go to work time to go home it's crowded uh there I've been stuck behind lines and lines of people so uh no matter what we're going to have to develop that road regardless but I think if they want to do houses there I think they should do single family homes um and put a retention pond in on the on the west side near South Street in Singleton so that's pretty much what I have to say thank you and just for full disclosure um your father's up here on the planing and Zoning commission yeah so but I still like to let everybody else know just in case you know next card please that was the last card for this item okay does the applicant have any rebuttal yes thank you um so during the course of the public comment um um we discussed the um the ability to commit tonight should you all decide to make it a condition of approval that um they will live with a 40 foot height um as you suggested um also again to reiterate there are it's the the impacts to the wetlands are minimal to one of the wetlands um in the north portion of the property but away from where the existing homes already are and during the process of Permitting through the Water Management District they're going to have they'll be required regardless of who ultimately builds um out here to have a master storm water plan and the regulations for master storm water plans require that the pre and post runoff be identical so they'll be required the engineers to determine based on the impervious surfacing to uh calculate um how much displacement of storm water they'll be resulting in and they'll have to develop ponds um to compensate for that plus a fun 500e storm event it used to be 100 years it's 500 um and additionally the um I think the nice lady that was talking about the former study uh the traffic study I think that was for an older plan one that involved commercial not for what's being proposed today um um and I guess finally you need product right you need homes and even some of the comments are I mean everybody's passionate about where they live and and I agree they they did come together and it's one of the very few hearings where the where the public spoke that I've been at where while they were passionate they were clear and they made good points and we heard what they said and I think it's appropriate to continue to listen um but you can't have the kind of products that are affordable and have them all be single family or have them all be in a particular price point they have there have to be opportunities for different types so okay um any questions I have one yes sir I'll call on letters in just a minute as I understand it your community engagement meeting was 10 months ago yes sir and I was not part of the team at that time so I would defer back to the engineers that are here as well as the has any of this information changed a lot in that 10 months would you mind if I ask them to come up as opposed to me I don't want to give you a wrong answer yeah I'm happy to speak on that uh so on the North project since that's what we're talking about I'll stick with that we've modified slightly some of the recreational features I think at one point we had a cabana and pool on the south and we flipped it to the North you know we've been working through unit placement and and roadway layouts and um to your point they are two separate projects but we've been playing around with some recreational amenities we did propose a dog park at the community engagement meeting we heard a lot of feedback that um they didn't want a dog park that close to a lot of the neighboring homes so that dog park was removed with the master plan submitted formally after that we had the community engagement meeting believe it was November 2nd of 2023 um and that was a good three weeks before we made the formal submitt to the city I believe on November 27th so we did wanted to have that Community engagement meeting before we put together our initial uh formal proposal and formal submittal to the city the town home units went up from 67 to 70 and that's to compensate um we reconfigured some items on the south and lost some units there so with flipping recreational amenities and movings and buildings we uh increased the three but it was still within the allowable density and I did want to just also add to what um Anna had noted about that traffic study that was brought up earlier uh the traffic study was part of that kimley horn traffic study but it was done many a couple years ago as a preliminary study and in it it had a site plan that showed that access to South Street but we're not proposing with this master plan and access to South Street the study in discussion with City staff when we were going through this application process was because the traffic study was done for a much higher unit count it was for 196 units and uh this particular project going in with the master plan was significantly less than that the study didn't need to be updated at this point since it was a more conservative estimate for the total number of trips it would be updated with the site plan and um preliminary platin construction plan package so I just wanted to touch there is no proposed South Street State 45 connection with the North project as I understand it you said three units were added since that public engagement meeting are those the three units near Highland Terrace no that that unit's been there um we were originally proposing some four and five unit blocks and they changed to four and six so really I think it's similar number of buildings but with spacing and then the additional uh unit from a five unit to a six unit we we gained three units in the in the north with the final plan member Charles um one of the one of the residents brought this up which our comp plan says um for any PD that you uh can't cause any um extra traffic along local streets which would be that high if you connect it there to Highland there that it would possibly but um I don't know how many people would actually go in that new neighborhood to go up there because it's kind of going through a neighborhood it's not an easy way out but is that what we're saying I mean it it is I I see I'm looking at the comment from staff here but I mean it's you're saying that it's two driveways and that's why it doesn't affect the local street is that what is that the it says which page are you the P 379 on three um 379 that's the next agenda oh sorry sorry sorry all right so so with this one then um with that that not cause traffic on the local Street or is it because it's an extension because it' be PD and PD is not supposed to cause any extra traffic on local streets right this will be Highland Terrace or Highland Terrace I'm sorry gosh this is a question for the applicant and their traffic engineer I would say I would pose this question was the study and the methodology applied in such a way is to show the worst case scenario so if that's the case everything would go out to a candid demonstr that all the trips can go out to the ERS and collectors without having to go through Hill Crest it's I think there's an assumption that some trips are probably going to go through Hillcrest but the where's the real draw out of this development is most likely going to be out to the collectors and materials I think that would be my question to the applicant yeah I I would think the neighborhood would actually create more traffic for them but um because if you look at how it goes out I I I assume they probably think that too but um so are you you're saying probably the traffic study shows most of the traffic most of traffic going to Singleton correct I mean I assume that too but um I had something else but uh I just forgot it member garage um the questions and comments made about the connection to Highland Terrace my point I made earlier is where there was no analysis at Tropic Street at Highland Terrace so traffic is going to leave your project traffic will use Highland Terrace conversely and I think that was a very appropriate thing to mention conversely the traffic in Highland teris residential all due respect to the residents the quickest way to Singleton is not to go up to Tropic Street if you're going to go shopping if you're going to go over to 95 you your traffic is going to go through the new neighborhood the town homes there's no there's no definition of design at this point Town Homes can be designed with or without carports do you know if the Project's seeking to have carports enclosed with the fee simple town homes or will it be outside parking in the driveways which also tends to spill over in the streets which tends to also create some degreee of traffic Comming on one hand but on the other hand it does create some problems and those all Focus back to the concern I voiced initially which I myself am not going to support the connectivity even if it was traffic cing devices I believe it should be an emergency access only it ought to promote pedestrian access walking's good bicycling's good it's a nice neighborhood to Bicycle through I've bicycled through it in my time but connecting for vehicular traffic it's going to compound the circumstance so in all due respect I think every common I've heard keeps focusing back on why would you want it connected and then I have one remaining comment I read the staff report about the change in land use from leny residential to concer obervation and we've had several projects we've reviewed where the adjustments to the maps on the comprehensive plan and subordinately the zoning addresses the gross identification of wetlands based on the Wetland inventory map that was used when the plan was adopted so adjustments come forward routinely where they're saying the wetlands aren't as big as they were anticipated to be by the inventory mapping and we want to adjust it to capture our development potential this is the Converse because they're losing an existing designation of low low density residential and they're expanding as I read the staff report the conservation area it's the reverse of what we typically have seen people adjust things from is that correct that is correct there are areas because of the developable area that they were having to utilize that area and so for the neighborhood one object of this is to increase not decrease protective areas if someone has a land use designation and I also look for correction if I'm incorrect or correct or confirm I'm correct that if I have an existing residential low density land use and I'm willing to go through the permitting procedure I have a right to explore that permitting procedure and otherwise create a development footprint in what otherwise was a wetland designated area the city of Titus cil's restriction based on its comprehensive plan the permitting procedures going through the Water Management District so if I'm correct with that let me know and if I'm correct then the answer goes back to they are willing to expand the protected area by changing a land use that would permit development currently and restricting it by restricting it by conservation designation I can say that is that is correct thank you take a look on page 103 of your packet and you'll see the difference between what it's existing proposed and there is an increase yes and I just wanted the public to know that one of the things that I read was it's a conundrum in some sense of it but the project actually probably is doing more protection not less protection with respect to existing Wetlands what could be not what is but what could be what could be what is and what shall never be as they say VI chairman Aon um I I commend you for uh some of the uh adapting in real time as it relates to 40 feet and a couple the other issues that uh you know um seem to be but kind of distilling down what I've heard at least um it seems that two two remaining things could make a big difference one is and part of the question is the why is is the connection to Highland Terrace necessary was there a perception because High terce was stubbed out from the old original that people would actually look fondly on connecting the two or is it a requirement for emergency vehicles it doesn't sound like it's necessarily a traffic study requiring it but if a condition or a change was that that turns into a culdesac with an emergency vehicle exit gated exit whatever it might be if that's required are necessary um it seems like it clears away a whole lot of concern from the from the uh neighborhood and then the second is this discussion of 67 versus 70 units the the three units on the end it seems like and maybe it's not three maybe it's one maybe it's two but it seems like a prime opportunity to create more of a buffer between the existing neighborhood and the new development if a some of those units go away and and the thick trees that are already mature and already there are left undisturbed because those units don't need to get built um just wanted to kind of get your feedback on those two items so I'll start with your first uh with your second regarding the 67 ver 70 uh and so right now the master plan shows 70 units to your point um we will be going through full design with uh you know lining up storm water pum ponds we have storm water ponds identified and preliminarily sized and and as part of the overall design and permitting process truthing that up and I know um staff had put in that the buildings may be shifted or relocated throughout the property to accommodate um more feasible tree preservation those are all things that get uh further flushed out at the sketch plat level I know that we have that minimum buffer uh adjacent to the adjacent neighborhood um that we're trying to maintain as as as best as possible um at this point we can commit to removing those three units that were originally in the plan like I said this has been a little fluid as we've addressed staff comments and also modified gotten updated Wetland delineation limits from our environmental consultant so that's where updated the building Footprints like I noted for from a four and a five unit product to a four and a six unit product so with all of that in mind that's why it grew from 67 to 70 um throughout that site planning and sketch plat process with staff we would be fine-tuning the proposed number of units um this appc will lock in the density and the proposed maximum number of units without a PD Amendment but at this point we wouldn't be removing uh density proposed but all of that to say that there's a lot of moving pieces in the next steps of the process that go into that final Unit C proposed with Sketch plot yeah I think it's less about the number of units and more about a 32 foot setb versus a you know 50 or or 75 foot setb um but understand your point and then on the Highland Terrace connection I don't know if you wanted to weigh in but I think what we had said in response to Mr Gard was that we're willing to put that the traffic study must include looking at either traffic calming devices or making that access emergency only we just need to I'm not a traffic engineer and I'm assuming If It Go there would have to be a CU act there and whatever you know one or the other we're willing to commit to depending on what the professionals you know say is the best way to go and I I have not been privy to conversations with staff with respect to that nor the traffic engineer nor your fire rescue folks so emergency vehicles and such I I don't know how to answer your question but I heard it and I heard the suggestions and I think you know being willing to do one or the other one will happen um until that is further vetted I I I can't be I can't honestly stand up here and say yes I can say one or the other fair enough thank you okay any Mr CH I was going to say I wish that the residents could see the the plans that we have and and the zoning and the current zoning because um to on on this one it doesn't look like there's any change to the conservation besides a little bit of variance to update just kind of the boundaries of it um and it's ldr probably where you know it's going to hit houses and then the the corner is really um commercial high intensity and um I do know that is something that um we as a city have been looking to keep some of our commercial property and um um so I think and we haven't really been focusing on that during this hearing but that is something that we've tried to not you know get rid of as commercial property but um because we don't have a lot of it I mean we have less than 20% I don't know but um so just keeping that in mind all right thank you any other questions of the applicant or staff anyone prepared to make a motion well before we make a motion do we close the public hearing and open for discussion Among Us first we close the public hearing did you turn in a card or you thought you read the last card am I wrong all the rest are um for the next one according to the sign in sheet what was your name sir yeah me I do have a card but he put for the next one okay what was your name okay I can call those cards that's call the cards that appli to the north right well originally I did but they signed up for the wrong one okay so Mike mustard there will be additional re if additional public comment speakers are heard okay anyone care to make a motion I thought we're calling those they'll stop until the South case is talked about right but they made a mistake was okay well if it was North then come up come on come on up thank you my name is Michael mustard 2707 Hill Crest Avenue uh I have a series of things I wanted to speak about first when the uh civil engineer representing the developer came up she talked about Wetlands development and said we're going to keep all and I'm paraphrasing keep a out of these wetlands and uh it'll have minimal impact based on our you know our design as a based on what and I qualify that by the following um last Sunday evening I sent a an email to Miss Brenda Evans record manager city of Titusville for an information request it reads Miss Evans in the environmental assessment report contained in the redacted environmental assessment PDF on page 8 of9 it states quote an environment Al resource per resource permit will be required through the St John's River Water Management District and quote I did not find that application or the results in the information made available to me please send these and all related documents next paragraph on the same page it states quote the environmental limitations described in this document are based on observations and Technical information available on the date of the on-site evaluation this report is for general purposes only the limits of any onsite Wetland surface waters can only be de determined and verified through field delineation Andor on-site review by the pertinent Regulatory Agencies end quote I said I have not yet seen uh a wetland study including but not limited to he hydrology measurements and studies that supports or refutes the PD's ability to mitigate a 25e 24-hour storm please send me any and all information related to this also and on Tuesday I got a report back uh from Miss Anderson senior planner uh good morning Mr Mustard we do not have the required information on file how can you know the impact to the wetlands if this study has not been done this is this is we we live on uh I just like to clarify that that was the requested information was not on file not the required information I just wanted to clarify that okay uh anyways that H how do you make a determination on the impact of the wetlands which to a lot of us is key you've heard about the flooding if those studies have not been done um uh right now with the rains we've been having the last two weeks the ground is saturated now when you walk out there and you've heard we've seen standing water on uh Singleton also how much more time do you need yeah um I'll just finish this up and the other one's kind of been addressed quickly thank you um and then what what about again a hurricane that comes through with a 24 uh you know 25y year 24-hour storm how do you know what the impact will be on the wetlands if you don't have that information uh the last part we've already talked about the the uh great questions about access onto Highlands Avenue and Hill Crest I propos that uh we eliminate that make it into a bike path and the developer modified the site plan to have a road going from the PD directly on the state road 405 South street so that would be two points of access uh right there thank you any other cards Lori Stacy Johnson I'll be brief I promise I'm Stacy Johnson 900 Highland Terrace um right on the corner of Highland in Hillcrest been there 25 years um like rest of my neighbors were there because it is a very small um Community not a whole lot of traffic um on that corner individuals don't stop now so um I'm also with Mr Mustard um and your sir um for having that as an emergency um access bike path um so just I thank you all for your time very much my first time here so just um just trying to learn the ropes and um everything and look forward to um what the outcomes will be and I thank you for your time thank you any other cards I do not believe so okay I'll close the public hearing and before uh Mr Rogers I was going to join in the discussion with they they get an opportunity for rebuttle you've had it but go ahead no there's additional comment that they're allowed to respond to so I wanted to speak directly to Mr Mustard's comments so that he understood the process the project as it's provided or excuse me as it's proposed does indeed avoid the wetlands there will be no development going into those Wetlands um as far as well where's the information the information gets submitted to the Water Management District and to the city's staff at the time the application for the master storm water plan and the environmental resource permit are submitted to the Water Management District in addition to providing pre- and post calculations to ensure that any storm water runoff is captured within the development they're going to also be required to hire Wetlands biologist who will go out and flag those Wetlands putting Flags along the perimeters and the edges of all those wetlands and then on top of that they'll be required to maintain specific regulatory buffers from those Wetlands above and beyond what the city requires in some instances and they will also be required to avoid what are called secondary impacts to those Wetlands so all of the those types of things they aren't available as information right now and what you're seeing right now is what is being requested for the for the densities and the intensities but if when they go in for permitting they can't achieve those and still maintain the regulatory requirements everything that they've proposed will be shrunk or pieces and parts will be shrunk in order to ensure that all of the regulatory requirements from not only the city but the state regulation regulatory agencies are met as well thank you and I'm just gonna clarify a question raised by staff so uh the environmental consultant engaged on the project did uh perform a wetland delineation study and and that's the Wetland limits uh shown in the master plan and to Anna's point when we submit an environmental resource permit that environmental consultant will walk the site with the St John's Water Management District staff to confirm that those Wetland delineations are uh correct and they are in agreement if anything changes at that time we would modify what our formal Wetland limits are on our um uh civil engineering plans but I just wanted to clarify that after a question from staff that the Wetland delineation shown on that master plan is based on an environmental Consultants field visit and uh site delineation and it will be confirmed with St John's staff after Erp uh many years ago they used to do it at pre-application but because of just an influx of applications and so much work at the Water Management District they don't do it now until after that first Erp application the public hearing is closed Mr Rogers you had your l on first I'm I'm not voting um but I just want to make sure that I understand clearly and everybody understands clearly so three big concerns have been I'm sorry what's the name Hillcrest Avenue is it high Avenue um the proximity of the end units to the neighborhood and their height and I understand that the applicant says that the connection to Hillcrest Avenue can be mitigated in some way whatever the traffic people say that a 40 foot height limit has been agreed to uh as a prerequisite for this zoning change and so that the one that I'm I'm not quite sure about is whether there might be a possibility either legally or uh via an agreement to increase the buffer zone um on the very end uh the LA the end units um I wonder is that has that been proposed or or or not staff um The increased buffer I I believe that the applicant had discussed that um as providing a more mature tree canopy and robust buffer within that area so so not a physical buffer not a move and in in feet but there there's a required 20 foot buffer required per code now okay so they will be required to provide a 20ft landscape buffer adjacent to those single family homes minimum okay uh so a 20 linear feet from the next property line yes yes okay okay they are proposing that that setback I I don't believe that the the 30 they're proposing 20 or 30 I believe that the setback that they're Pro providing from the adjacent single family residence from building to the property line is 32 ft and then they were required ride a minimum 20 foot landscape buffer in width in that area oh I see okay um thank you um any other questions I have one of the staff um it's not come before us but I've heard a lot of talk at city council about the widening of 405 adding lanes and may be as much as two lanes maybe just one lane is that going to happen anytime soon um I believe FD fdot is currently working on a study to analyze that for for this segment from Cheney all the way to us one but there's been no date they're actively working on that study now and going through future public hearings and engagement okay if there were an additional let's say two lanes and that be four laned how how will the drainage affect the surrounding properties after would account for that in any plans that they propose so right now as chrisy said it's just a study trying to find Alternatives so it's they don't have the funding the funding is not available for that for any kind of expansion right now so it's a study is a prerequisite to doing any kind of engineering later on potentially but during that stage is when they would determine what kind of U storm water systems they would need to provide as part of that so we probably won't see it for at least five years because the state I wouldn't expect it in the next few years nice any other questions yes I do M fa uh good Brad how you doing it's been a while uh so the attorney had said kind of two different things when it came to storm water management uh during her first presentation she said that it is by code that um that they cannot increase storm order manage excuse me storm order runoff into that into the area during her second presentation she said that there could be some ways to mitigate that now I'm going to paraphrase again she didn't say exactly how but there are some ways that they can do that my question to you is what does the code State about this PD going in this area when talking about storm waterer management storm water runoff can they not increase it or can they increase the amount of water that run off that currently runs off now because what I'm looking for is for them to decrease the amount of of runoff right now someplace else cuz right now that corner floods it really does flood during during during Hurricane so I have a concern about that runoff in that area so they'll have to meet so this is approved what you got before you right now is a land use and then a a PD resoning after that it's really with a master plan so it's not a detailed site plan so it does not include a detailed storm water and drainage study so that would be something that would submitted be submitted to us at the site plan stage uh it's at that time we the they'll determine what is actually necessary and it has to meet the city's code they can't be approved unless it is so they can't impede or impact adjacent properties uh if there's additional measures that need to be done based on because of the topography or the environmental constraints on the property they'll have to meet the additional standards whatever those are at that time all right so what can we do today so what are some more options to avoid what happened on the corner of Garden Street 95 where a PD was was approved and then the developer went in and whatever they did but they increased the amount of water that flowed into that corner coming off 95 we've talked about that before so we want to prevent that at this stage if possible um to not increase the runoff into into that area it's hard to answer at this stage because the're resoning uh it's just a level of information that's not really provided to us at this stage if you would like to ask the applicant to volunteer additional information not typically asked for at the sketch plat stage so you can see that that's something you probably ask them for I would ask you probably want to ask the alant that question um I just can't anticipate what particular condition or requirement that we can staff could recommend at this stage right now okay okay I'd like to ask the applicant one more thing that just crossed my mind are these linked together 9A and 9B without one will the other one survive could pardon yeah we submitted these separately so that one could go ahead and Advance ahead of the other but some of these documents are linked to both that's correct okay uh Mr grd a question for staff and the applicant first for staff when specific engineering design plans come forward where existing conditions have neighborhood flooding which sounds like what we have in the intersection my experience is that can be remediated because it is existing even though the standards are post in pre-development runoff that's for what you improve for the existing flooding that can be remed mediated or it's often times required to be remediated not withstanding increased impervious areas there is also a potential that we in flood prone areas which I believe the plan indicates there are some flood prone areas here Zone X I think it was um and those flood prone areas probably include that flood prone area at the intersection that you can and correct me again if I'm incorrect um um you can consider uh requiring the developer to increase storm water retention to a different standard you spoke about one of the gentlemen Mr Mustard spoke about a 24hour 25e event the next one up to bat is a 100-year event and the third one the applicants representative spoke about a 500y year event that all volumetrically is the area of retention bigger the pond the more the volume so if concerned with this is the applicant willing to address the existing flooding conditions by accepting the remediation of the flooding in the intersection as a concept to do being General and let the engineers work that out or design the project for what would be a hundred-year storm event requirement uh which would absorb that existing flooding I presume based on there is no impervious surface if you increase impervious you're increasing volume and if you require an increased volume storage over the uh standard and and if that standard is not applicable please let me also know that we are in a 100-year storm event uh criteria for storm water management design this property is in the city's area of critical concern which has um a higher standard than you would typically find as far as requirements for storm water is it volumetric standard Improvement is that the requirement I think it does believe require that 100-year design standard that that's that answers the question and I would suspect by Design the finished product May remediate the flooding that's occurring naturally which left unchecked by no development isn't winning anybody's favor thank [Music] you before uh we take a motion I want to ask if any member of this Commission has had any contact with anybody regarding this development yes um back in May I was actually knocking doors and I met Mr leadford um and we talked a little bit about this project but I had no clue when it would come up okay anyone else okay anyone care to make a motion since I'm the talkative one some things never change I apologize along the lines of the discussion I want to uh I want to make the recommendation to city council that the project as presented uh be approved in the comprehensive plan Amendment and tied to that the PD zoning in which in the PD zoning conditions apply those conditions that apply for condition is to restrict vehicular access onto Hills H Hill Hill Crest parce for clarity of everyone in the room would you mind sticking to Just the Future land use ordinance and make a motion just for that item and allow a discussion from the board on that rather than combining the PD resoning I can conditionally approve a comprehensive plan Amendment or I have to speak about the PD second um it sounded like you were making a motion but I wanted to ask that you only make a motion to to um suggest your decision for the future land use ordinance and hold off on the resoning for a moment to get a decision from the commission I thought I understood we were just doing all at once but if there's a separation I fully understand it so I'll make the motion the comprehensive plan amendment is presented based on the staff's recommendations of that um uh be approved be recommended to approve to the city council is there a second second any discussion any discussion so I have a question so on page 165 there was a preliminary um um I'm sorry is it 165 I apologize so there's another there's another picture that was given uh um I can't find it now anyways but it it showed the the entrance onto South Street it's 159 it's in the traffic study yes that was the original yeah previous version correct uh it it was thank you so yeah so with this original one here that was originally submitted it addresses a lot of people's concerns so Mr garat had mentioned about you know straight streets where where here's a curve to kind of to kind of mitigate traffic patterns many of the many of the residents here spoke about you know going through Hill Crest and so if we put up you know a merity insurance just like we said you know a a bike entrance or whatever and then we have two entrances on to both Singleton and onto South Street um and this also takes the the the unit count down from 70 down back down to 67 so this original one that they submitted was one that we would have had no problems with initially or less problems with initially but yet they've changed it um I'm I'm not in favor you know I think that this one's more advantageous for our community than the one that they submitted so that's where I stand I just want to know what you guys think about that Vice chairman so I I think it's it's a different problem I I actually know people that were in a traffic accident because someone was turning they were turning they live in this neighborhood um they were turning at Point Z and got rear ended off of 405 so an additional an additional um entrance where people would be turning left off of 405 into this development uh just past Singleton and between adding another one between points set and Singleton I think compounds that issue I'm actually prefer this because it doesn't compound that issue there's a lot less traffic on Singleton than there is on 405 perhaps once the extra lanes are done desell Lanes Center turn Lanes all those those prps go away but theoretically this that entrance would happen long before that would happen so I think as presented you know if if we try to roll back that which is problematic probably for anything getting done tonight but still I think that creates a whole another set of problems I I think it does off of off of 405 as well but that problem also exists on Singleton um because of that curve that's kind that was kind of like a BL blind curve sometimes when people are coming from the other direction having to make that left hand turn into that neighborhood that same problem exists there as well and I think that by for example also that left-and turn to mitigate that 405 left-and turn right because that's also supposed to be where the lane splits you can put up an island there they can make that left hand turn on a Singleton and right to the neighborhoods and then that turn that way coming out of the neighborhood is all right only either right only or coming from um I guess you know from South Street you know that way um making only a right hand turn into the neighborhood so there's ways to mitigate the left- hand turn into that into that neighborhood by having them go down Singleton and making a right do that problem exists whether you're on Singleton or on 405 but overall I feel like the original submitted plan on that we see a 159 is a better option one that we've been given this evening that's just how I feel okay any other discussion roll call vote member Gad yes Vice chairman Eton yes member finer yes member Childs yes member moso no member facon no chairman Richardson no okay so the motion passes and uh this will go to City Council next week for first reading two weeks after that so if I could um we're on the future land use we had a pass of 4 to three but I would like to ask the three members who voted no to State their basis for the denial vote go ahead sure my um I'm not sure if this is the one I should but my um my reason is because of it being zoned to a PD it UPS the the um the height and so for me that's quite concerning who was the other no it was me yeah so uh number one uh commercial we are we are running short on commercial property that's number one number two as I spoken before about the runoff but bre address that with the uh critical area of concern but then also the traffic um I believe that they ought to have uh entrance and exit onto Singleton and on the South Street and not through Hill Crest I would agree with the concerns that member mus goo and member face and stated you know I'm familiar with the neighborhood at 60 years old that neighborhood is or a little older than that and I know it as if I liveed there and um I think um the water runoff and the flooding is a problem that needs needs to be addressed okay next item will be the next motion will be for the rezoning okay I'll try again to sequence myself so for the rezoning to the PD uh I will recommend to the city council that the project be approved conditionally in addition to the conditions provided by staff those to be conditions regarding access to Hill Cris on Highland Terrace I have a hard time thinking linear and remembering at the same time the uh the the connection to the existing residential Street Highland Terrace be restricted to non-vehicular access uh promoting pedestrian and and non-vehicular access by sidewalks the um Building height be restricted from the requested 50 feet to 40 feet and due to the concerns of the proximity to the existing home and the flexibility sought by the applicant um and the previous plan approved for 67 units the robust planning offered by the applicant to uh intercept visibility of those units would be enhanced by a further uh restriction another condition which would eliminate two 20 foot units that's what your plan calls for you said 20 and 30 so I think these are the 20s by eliminating two of that's 40 feet the 32 then makes it some 75 ft from the existing property boundary with the Landscaping standards provided by the city code and the Landscaping standards promoted by the applicant when they read into the record the idea of robust Landscaping I believe will go great measure to prevent the impact of 40 foot tall residential buildings against single story homes so the last condition is to remove move 20 move 40 ft of building you can keep the units you can keep the 70 units just move them around so you keep them increase the setback so your recommendation is for the setback and not the density change correct the The increased setback would an effect neate two units at 20 feet each 40 feet you can relocate them however you can with your engineering plan but that increases the setback from the proposed 32 to uh 52 is that right 72 excuse me did you get that five minute motion no sir I try to build a record bullet points man bullet points I don't know like I think we can restate what we think we heard I can make it simple I was trying to build a record in case there's an appeal the record is to recommend approval to city council based on the staff's recommendation conditions apply additional conditions apply and offered by the applicant regarding increased buffering with robust Landscaping on the northeast boundary adjacent to the single family homes the next condition is to restrict vehicular access to Hills the Terrace Road and provide for pedestrian access only with an emergency access uh Improvement for emergency vehicles um no public vehicular access and the third condition is to increase the setback on that um uh decrease accept the applicant's request to a 40 foot height as opposed to 50 and conditions we expect that those conditions to be restated at city council we I want to State them here just so the first one is limit access to Highland to pedestrian access only with an vehicle emergency access yes okay second one Building height no greater than 40 ft yes uh third one increase a set back to 72 ft on the East Boundary yeah Northeast East Boundary adjacent to the existing subdivision yes okay right is there a second to the motion second okay second at V remember Charles so you'd still have the street there but it had somehow be limited just with like how I guess how how is it limited I guess fire trucks have like a little like a so like a gate thing so gate but also but you're also saying in your motion that we would have buffer on that side where that street meets right Asos to right okay okay all right thank you member fer fendler uh so if there was a gate there for emergency vehicle access who would be required to maintain that gate because those break pretty frequently be the the property owners the proper development okay their Association okay any other questions roll call vote Lori member faon no member Childs yes Vice chairman Eton yes member Gad yes member finer no member Moscoso no chairman Richardson no so that means some that motion is defeated four- three anyone care to make another motion I'd like to make a motion for the the same thing we were talking about before but and this might also be shut down but with regular access to the neighborhood I think just from my perspective that it makes the most sense to have uh neighborhoods integrated to each other and so to kind of limit that it kind of defeats the purpose of making a community so I I like the idea of of making a greater setback I think that's fine you know I think limiting the height as we discussed and agreed to that that's fine that's workable but I I just think that we're going to make it more complicated to have that neighborhood and less attractive for people to move into to think about deliveries being harder trash pickup being harder all of those kind of access issues being harder versus a an adjoined Community as it was originally kind of intended when you look at the the map it was it wasn't intended for those roads to be joined so may I ask a question to the motion maker uh yes would you consider alternatively providing for the first conversation which is to have traffic calming designed in there to restrict vehicular straight through driving sure yeah so if we could if we can make the motion the setback being increased to 72 uh calming traffic uh uh initiatives or whatever and the um the last one being the limiting of the height to 40 ft is there a second of that motion Mo if before you make your vote I'd like to ask a question so just to reiterate the motion is to um condition replace the the the Highland AIS condition with uh that was initially proposed with proposed traffic calling measures correct at what point would the sketch plant to be submitted or at the site plan if the sketch plot's going to come before you if that's approved the site plan engineering drawings will not that's an ad administrative process so at the sketch plot okay and is there anything in particular that you would like to see or you just want to ask the applicant to propose measures and study and propose what they would like I don't have a preference there my advice is let the applicants Engineers present Alternatives and those can be decided upon by confirmation the city engineering staff as to which works best or we'll see it in schedu or we'll see it okay they can present the alternatives to us yes that's that's good thank you okay are you second the motion have you have you asked all the questions yes so the other two conditions that were initially proposed still stand with your motion okay correct is there a second stabbing at the dark I'll second the motion okay any other discussion roll call please member facon no member fendler yes member Moscoso no member Gad yes Vice chairman Eton yes member Childs yes chairman Richardson no so that motion did pass four to three and that'll be forwarded to city council for the first public hearing uh next Tuesday may I ask if member Richardson fa in or chair I'm sorry chair Richardson member of Moscoso or member fa and have any different reasons for your voting denial are they the same the same mine remains okay mine Remains the Same I would I mean in this is piggy backing piggybacking off of member facein but um in Our Land Development regulations 33.5 I do believe this will create more traffic along a local Street okay item 9B shall we go into that or shall we have a five minute recess or it's up to y'all okay let's take five everyone agree okay we'll take a five minute recess takes me more than five minutes e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e is great you like it yeah okay item 9B small scale amendment number two 2024 this is the part that is South 405 in South Singleton staff thank you um senior uh Christy Anderson senior planner um this is SSA 2-202 4 PD South the applicant is requesting to amend the property to the city's low density residential and conservation fusure land use designations and rezone to the PD zoning district with master plan the applicant is requesting a smallscale comprehensive plan Amendment with rezoning on 66.4 N acres for purposes of constructing a town home Community with residential amenities consisting and consisting of 62 individually ploted town home units the parcels are vacant with woodlands and currently have future land use designations of low density residential and conservation and have General use and open space and recreational o zoning designations the 66.4 N acre property includes 50.6 n Acres of wetlands and has approximately 15.7 acres of developable land in which 5.5 Acres of parks in open space are propos the development has been designed to preserve the existing wetland areas and proposes no uh Wetland impacts the the proposed PD ordinance limits uses on the property 62 town home units with minimum living area of 800 square ft with supporting infrastructure and sight imp improvements including vehicular access sidewalks Landscaping utilities on-site storm water management facilities and common recreational amenities including walking trails benches informational placards on Native vegetation and Wildlife a Tot Lot exercise pad for outdoor exercise equipment and a male kiosk permitted accessory uses will be limited to recreational amenities the proposed master plan has been provided to you on page 413 of your packets staff has found that the comprehensive plan fature land use small scale map amendment is consistent with the city's comprehensive plan and the South Street small area plan the rezoning and conditions of approval are consistent with the proposed land use Amendment City's comprehensive plan and Land Development regulations including PD and rezoning criteria described in section 33-8 and 34-40 of the code the master plan is also consistent with the proposed land use Amendment City's comprehensive plan Land Development regulations and master plan requirements described in chapter 34 Article 2 Division 3 of the code staff recommends approval of the comprehensive plan future land use map Amendment and PD rezoning with master plan with the following conditions of approval as described in the rezoning ordinance provided on page 405 of your packets the following conditions are proposed number one a final recreational plan shall be submitted with the sketch plat that illustrates the proposed recreational amenities including interconnected stabilized sidewalks and walking trails within the open space area and confirm to the minimum required open space acreage number two Wetland number one Wetland number two Wetland number three and Wetland buffers shall be preserved with the submitt of the sketch plot the developer shall work with the city number three the de developer shall submit to the city to shall work with the city to adjust the layout of the master plan to achieve the preservation of the Upland scrub Pine and Oaks where feasible Heritage trees should to the extent possible be preserved with the sub midle of a sketch plat number four buildings may be relocated or rearranged outside the required landscape buffer within the areas identified as a developable acreage as stated in condition 1.7 of the ordinance and as Illustrated on the master plan exhibit B and number five direct impacts to Wetlands will require an amendment to the plan development p the ordinance and master plan and I'll be happy to take any questions that you have from staff at this time member TOS um so you you directed us to 413 I'm I'm kind of I remember seeing another image of the zoning and but um and it looked like um that where Wetland 3 is um it looked like that was still going to be zoned not not conservation so it's not going to be conservation but there is a wetland there can you just explain to me what zoning that Wetland 3 will be in um I I I believe it's that uh let me try and find a good yeah if you get I can't remember what image I looked at I thought that that area was going to be um zon something besides conservation so on page 458 there's the existing and then the proposed that shows that area right um W so the cons it will remain that conservation future land use um I believe the there's a small portion that is changing to the ldr that is within the Upland area okay okay all right thank you um member of Moscoso um I I remember the liberman um project was um just south of this could you give us an update on that project as well because if we're going to see the development to the to the North and then perhaps that development as well I'd just like to think of the the impacts did the the leverman project do you remember that one there was a land use amendment that I believe was processed but I don't believe we have a site plan if that's what you're asking but has it been approved by city council the amendment that was submitted there was one that was denied and then they resubmitted I believe I'd have to check the status to see where we are with I I do recall it but I don't remember the status of it okay thank you any other questions okay we'll hear from the applicant first hello everyone Alysa kby with kimley horn representing the applicant my office is at 7341 office Parkplace Melbourne Florida 32940 so uh thank you to to Brad and chrisa and the rest of the staff for working with us on this application package we are in agreement with the conditions outlined that Christy just read through the uh few items I just wanted to highlight is that this project we noted the north project was within the ACC this project is outside of the ACC uh code most of the site uh is currently with a low density residential land use so we would be proposing to modify the remainder um it currently has a general use zoning and it would be going to PD we're proposing no direct Wetland impacts and additional Wetland buffers a minimum 15 average 25t to be in accordance with uh St John's River Water Management District standards to offset any secondary impacts to those Wetlands thank you any questions okay does applant have anyone else let speak okay if not I'll open the public hearing cards Lori Tom Dobson Mr Richardson if I can I'd like to answer Miss moso's question um the liberan application that you're referring to was approved in April of this year and can you tell me how many units or how many buildings I I I can't remember um I I'd have to check that as well okay thank you thank you no as a reminder any documents need to be provided to the city as well [Music] okay my name is Tom Dobson I live at 1400 Overlook terrce and I'm still the guy that owns the land that's surrounded by all these projects um the project what we'll call in Pink There is a liman project you've just been talking about it butts up to my property which is the green if you notice the area that says three very small there but that is the lake that's on my property that drains two existing neighborhoods in Titusville at this point for decades that lake is critical to the drainage of those two neighborhoods and this project on the southern side here is on top of a pretty big hill on the high part of this ground when they say it's not going to affect the wetlands that's because it's up on the hill water runs downhill it's going to run off of that project off of those streets off of that concrete it's going to run into my Lake which is already critical to the drainage of other neighborhoods and it's going to run into those Wetlands that are already impacted by by whatever happens two years ago we had 20 in of rain on this property that Lake was a little bit low which was fortunate because it got very high we don't need any more running uh runoff into that Lake during those count of events and that was a 20-inch storm a previous gentleman talked about major storms and 100-year storms and whatnot that was a big storm that that storm D 20 to 25 Ines in our area and that lake is critical to that we don't need any more runoff from any more projects on top of that Hill speaking of other things that run downhill part of their plan is their lift station will be down by my Lake in 2017 the lift station at Central and Pine Ridge the city lost control of that and it dumped raw sewage into that Lake for a week we don't need any more incidences like that we don't need that project on top of that Hill putting all of that impact back down into that Lake which is already draining the neighborhoods hold the time for just a second would you um that Lake you the lake you own or is adjacent to where you own it's on my property yes what sewage was yeah there's a lift station at the corner of uh of central it's tucked back off the End of the Street there at Central and Pine Ridge and it flooded and there was raw sewage going into that canal and on down into that Lake did the city was the city aware of this I don't know if anybody here now was but that was 2017 and that was happening I had neighbors calling me going Tom do you know what's going on down here it was a mess okay start its time again please okay so uh runoff is a real problem here we're talking about traffic we're talking about runoff this particular project here everybody in in that other neighborhood has a real concern which doesn't seem to be heard by some people on this committee everybody says that's fine we're going to prove it anyway uh I'm up here by myself representing the south side of the neighborhood but I also represent that Lake and I spend a considerable amount of time maintaining the drainage ditches uh uh uh working with the city to help keep that ditch that drains underneath two houses and goes into the ditch and then drains on down to the lake we have a a Cor in there that floods badly have a couple of flooding issues in that neighborhood and we work constantly to keep that flowing on into that lake so that we don't have any more of a problem than we currently have now we're going to have another project on top of that Hill do you need some more time um well I was wondering if anybody might have some questions about you know how that would work uh I think it's also kind of funny that you folks can't go look at these properties and see what you're really talking about or what you're really voting on it doesn't make any sense to me that you don't see how that works and and and we know the corner of Singleton floods we know that 405 is going to be impacted by all of this traffic we know you can't build enough roads to keep up with traffic after you overdevelop an area it just doesn't happen and everywhere around us is living example of that but I'm very concerned about this Lake and how this will impact that well in answer to your question I think there's three or four of us that have lived here my family moved here in 1967 I know member Gad has been here since 1955 am I correct 57 57 and M facon was born here what 73 73 old man so I had friends on Overlook ter I know all about Overlook Terrace in that portion and that was originally Whispering Hills was not the city of Titusville and in 1963 Titusville annexed Whispering Hills and any River City without the voters voting on it they were sucked into the city of Titusville and um they've they've had two or three times uh dispute between the way the streets and the the um uh Whispering Hills was laid out completely different than Titusville it's different easements and everything so I would just that subdivision directly north of me I think it is Whispering Hills or whatever on Elm Terrace there that drains into my Lake also so it's critical to both those neighborhoods and the streets all drained down Heritage and you probably heard something about the Heritage uh uh Street problems with the the that Canal runs around behind those houses and all the way down into that Lake and that's a problem right now also and uh folks have been trying to figure out what to do about that and get the city's help on that um chairman yeah I was going to say I'm definitely concerned about the sewage spills and um and overdevelopment and uh you know where what we do with the storm water um with with these especially like the last rezoning too is um it's already Zone where people could build like commercial and you know residential I guess just the density might be a little different um that's what's tough is like you know even if we don't rezone it it could still be built on and we could still have some of the water problems I'm not saying your your concerns aren't real and that's where our challenges is not necessarily in this part but the when we're doing the plat and we've seen that too just like member fac said at 95 in garden and uh you know everything went through approval and then somehow we got more water at that intersection and so I think what we're trying to do is have have everyone focus on that part when they're building that part of make sure that we're not causing any more water to flow anywhere else but the more I know the more impervious surface that you add there but we also it's already owned a certain way and they could build without coming here too for a certain you know this is Florida if there's a flaw in your plan Florida will find it for you yeah and uh you know and there will be a flaw on your plan and there's just no doubt about that I just want to clear that and uh I appreciate that but uh I also think that you know if you look at the overall picture here because you keep taking this in Little Bites if you look at the overall picture here there's 300 units being built within a quarter of a mile of that corner right there not 60 not 60 or 70 not 170 but 300 altoe and when you look at the big picture that becomes a bigger problem as far as I'm concerned particularly with this runoff situation yeah and runoff is what I mean traffic is everybody's everyday problem and that's going to become a problem yeah it's becoming a problem now with what's happened in Titusville but when you add that runoff in there look at what's going on North Carolina this very week people are are waiting around in water up to their waist and this situation is is not going to make this any better it's not going to improve that and it is going to run down and that lift station down by my Lake along with u gazebos and walking trails and whatever else they kind of have on their plan to put through all of that is going to impact that whole situation there's just no doubt about it Mr chairman side note um someone told me that the the audio has not been working on the live feed since the break so if the AV guy could um look at that please I assume he heard you hopefully okay do you have anything else no I'm I'm done any other questions M um member moscosa um mine's more towards um member of child's I mean it looks like we're resoning part of it as um General use to PD which is 27 acres and I and I can't remember the exact number but for General use I think it's I think for every five acres it's one home is that correct that's correct um and so there is a big difference I know that something could be built on it but um with the current zoning there could be single family homes um but there is a lot of wetlands as well yeah when you put a sub when you put an entire apartment complex over there that's not low density you can call it anything you want that's not low density that's not low density living and uh that's all there is to it you may have 100 acres or 70 or 50 acres to work with but it's not low density yeah I was kind of also since you like said about kind you kind of mentioned the previous thing I was kind of more talking about that than this because we haven't really got into this fully yet but I was saying the other one I always expected that somebody might put a few nice homes over on the other side of that Lake looking down on it or whatever I didn't think there'd be you know tons of apartment buildings over there and what that will bring as far as uh just Devastation to the property any other questions thank you thank you next card please roxan pistol Mr Richardson I do have another answer for M Moscoso uh the liberman project was approved with potential density of 169 but there was not a master of concept plan attached it was just a straightforward resoning so there we don't know how many buildings are the max the buildout potential is 169 units okay thank you very much so hi roxan pistol live at 1400 Bel terce uh so I'm in Whispering Hills I think in the one of the original homes built in 1957 so um with all of this I haven't heard anybody say anything about you know crime and you know we have anything like that schools how many more children are we going to have do we have schools that are going to you know be able to handle that type of thing when you're having apartment complexes coming in and connecting them into residential areas single family homes that's a big difference I don't blame the people from Hillcrest wanting not wanting a road coming through um t Ville tried to put a road through um to develop some of the property at the end of Bel Terrace a few years ago we had to come and fight that you wanted to charge us the one gentleman was going to be like $60,000 to put a road through that he did not want to bring more homes in to a deadend street that he did not want he bought that house for that reason so I look at that I look at the fact that you know like Mr Dobson said you're building on a hill a water's running off we're already low that is going to affect the wetlands it's going to make them wetter you know um the animals we have so many animals turkeys everything Bobcats the whole bit where are they supposed to go do we not have dry land in Titusville that people can develop or is it just that it's more expensive right so why why don't you promote people to look at those properties that are for sale that should be developed and again do we have the infrastructure to support more people if you're talking 300 homes you're talking at least 900 people and how many are on the other property that was just approved and how many on the next property or however many the liberman project how many is there can Titusville support that we don't even have enough restaurants to support that let alone infrastructure we're paying one of the highest water bells in the state because we don't have the sewage and things to take the water runoff and those type things so is this really a good idea to get rid of your wetlands and are they replacing leaving them here or are they going to buy a piece of property in O chobi to take over that Wetlands be replaced here because we see that happening all the time too so that's my thing I don't want to see my property flooded if it is do I have a recourse because something wasn't done here any questions thank you next card please SOI Amy wiset good evening I am Amy wisman and I also have my dad Frank wisnet who's a 98-year-old World War II veteran um we live on 1290 Bell Terrace right below Scott and rockand and we're at the it's a no Outlet road so every time we have rain I'm out and water up to my kns it it floods at the base of the driveway or at the beginning of the driveway where the road ends and it goes all through my yard I'm not in a flood plane but when we have big storms our water runs to Tom's lake and a couple years ago when we had a hurricane the same thing the lift station went down they had no power it was underwater I had geysers coming out the clean out pipes of sewage city sewer coming out and I did call the city every single day for two weeks until they came out with a truck to clean it up and and put a some line down or something to neutralize the stench and now since then I still have divots from all of that it went right clear through into my pond and also to Tom's and we have all these Wetlands behind and as well we have uh birds of prey that Nest we've watched babies we've got all kinds of animals Bobcats coyotes uh otter Turtles alligators and you know I mean we can't even take care of what's going on now as far as our street is concerned and that whole neighborhood because every time we get rain and the rain is increasing all the time uh with this weather change if you will um you know so it's not getting any better it's actually getting much worse and I get I get all the water from Park AV from Sun Terrace from Hope Lane and then some of elm Terrace comes on to H Lane and runs down so I have rivers on both sides of my road and then a lake which then comes into my yard it's ruined my driveway it's ruined my Gardens so I think this is just crazy that you know we have this beautiful area and nobody seems to care about preserving anything and you know that's my that's that's my opinion and I'm going to stick with it and my dad as well you know he used to be on the Department of Agriculture for the state of Massachusetts for several years he knows a lot he knows a lot he's still knows a lot even at 98 I rest my case thank you next card Tony chiffo speaking of flooding it's really raining hard vot on they're not supposed to know anything hi I'm Tony Shi on Tropic street I'm only here to belabor the night in the issue um I wanted to talk about this PD you know uh it's not just a 50 foot although they've agreed to go drop down to 40 foot height it's changing the um setbacks the front setback from 25 to 50 feet as it is now to 20 ft the side from 25 to 50 ft as it is now to 10 feet the side side corner which is you know where you can see from 15 to 50 ft as it is now to 10 ft and the rear setback from 20 to 50 feet as it is now to 10 feet so um you start messing around with the setbacks I I'm having problems with that in my neighborhood in West Titusville um with the live local doing away with setbacks so my friends from kimley horn are in charge charge guess what man they come here they write the rules and then they come back as the engineers for these developers out of town these developers are from Jacksonville I looked it up and and then they come in and they want to change the zoning to meet the rules you know that blah blah anyway kimley horn did the traffic study a couple of years ago and I remember when they did the traffic study on Tropic Street they found there was going to be n for 7 and A2 acre development there was going to be no problem with traffic but they did the traffic con concurrency study at 2:00 on a Tuesday afternoon and they only did one now I wonder when two years ago they did the traffic concurrency for this setup and they did it for both sides of the of 405 they did it for the north side and the south side and they found there was going to be no impact anywhere at any of the intersections you you ask them to go check at Tropic Street and and the other Street um they'll find there won't be any impact there too that's kimly horn I um was at I was at a meeting that fot had about the improvements that they're making on 405 now and a city manager was there and he was talking to a high muckety muck official who was from fot at that meeting and they were talking about widening the 405 and the F do person said to the city manager who said and that's supposed to come up next year this was last year so it was supposed to come up in 2024 and that F person said no it's not going to be next year but the year after and I did the math I said hm that's 2025 that they were going to start looking at it so you're right it's going to be a little while before that road is widened doubled but there's still going to be a lot of traffic and I got other things I've got pages but only three minutes next card Lori Kevin dargy I wonder who he's related to it's family night at finally stare you on your side of Kevin dark 2625 South Street is what I'm representing uh the church property and my parents house next door um there there's been a lot of cart before the horse talk tonight I understand that things aren't available we're not in that part of the stage just kind of wanted to get on record a little bit that of our two um two things that we had concerns about or were curious about traffic was one of them with the entrance to our church building versus the entrance way to to the South property which looks like it's coming straight off Singleton right across the road um we were hoping that we could talk to them about giving us a side access point to our property from their extension into their new neighborhood we would probably just tear our current entrance up because two entrances side by side that close would be a danger to our people um with all with all the traffic everybody's talking about it probably would be a matter of time before there's a stoplight at that entrance anyways I'm surprised there's not one there already to be honest with you um so we were just kind of we we've talked before I want to go on record just to see if that would be a a consideration to give our church building access from the new road that would go in so that we could safely get in and out of our building without all the extra traffic that's going on uh the other question that we had and this may not be the board I don't know uh but the church and my parents property is currently on septic and do we know can we stay on we we would want to stay on septic if that's or can there be a forcement to push us into sewer if that's going to be um is if it's going to be I'm sure they're going to be on sewer for the for the new property so we don't know if like I said I might be putting the carart before the horse on this one but those are are kind of the two main concerns that we have um as far as the the flooding and stuff were unlike the neighborhood that just I'm not for any of this or against any of this I'm just saying but unlike the people that were here before me I moved a lot around this town couldn't decide what neighborhood I wanted to stay in um all the new neighborhoods and we've so we've got we've been in the newer neighborhoods that have been under the new code under the new rules and that have been implored and that was an exception I guess at first I heard about the Garden Street s uh the Garden Street car flood that was most of the new neighborhoods that I lived in flooding has never been an issue with the new rules most of the flooding that you've heard tonight is stuff that was built before I was born before you know some of the new uh codes have been put into place so like I said my two main concerns were if we could get a side access into our church uh parking lot from the new uh neighborhood and are we going to be forced to tap into city sewer which we would would not want to do if possible um yeah I asked a question uh today of the staff that in essence Forest Hills Baptist Church would be landlocked it' be surrounded by development uh and what you pointed out is a good case they need to provide access into their entrance way and shut yours off and um that way you might generate more members hasn't worked so far any questions thank you next card please Cas child's okay next card that was last card okay applicant thank you for for all of your comments and feedback uh we've been taking notes and so there's a couple items that I wanted to hit based on some of the concerns and just items that were raised for discussion so the first one regarding storm water um we spoke a little bit about this in the previous one but I'll reiterate that as part of the storm water uh analysis that we have to go through during the full design of this process uh there's a pree post analysis where we have to analyze all the predevelopment discharge that the site currently um discharges into those adjacent wetlands and we have to show that with the new configuration we provide storm water Retention Ponds to provide storm waterer treatment and uh volumetric storage and then the discharge offsite has cannot be more than the pre-development discharge so uh and same thing you know we cannot take our whole property and just drain off site with no regulations or calculations so that would need to be permitted through both the city of Titusville and through the Water Management District meeting all of their stringent um codes regulations uh and and specifics uh and and we' not be flowing uh you know water wouldn't be just strictly running offsite it'd be routed through a series of interconnected storm water uh uh storm water pipes and inlets into those identified storm water Retention Ponds and then um at a certain elevation based on the calculations discharged with a singular discharge at this point based on preliminary findings but again that would go a little bit more in detail as we get more information and get further into the design process um it was brought up about schools so as part of the rezoning and comprehensive plan Amendment application we have to provide a preliminary School concurrency determination um a final one goes forward with the uh site plan construction plan preliminary plat process we have to project out approximately how many units at what which year uh and there was found to be ample space within the neighboring schools to service this development and I believe that is included course Corr respondence within the staff report as well it it's actually on page 713 is that analysis provided by the school board perfect uh I also wanted to reiterate that uh I understand sometimes Town Homes get a bad W but they're they're not apartment buildings where you're cramming significant units they're you know twostory Town Homes 62 units across the full property um they're in this like you know in between sometimes where people view them but it's not a multif family uh development when it comes to like an apartment complex like it was mentioned before so I just wanted to reiterate that it would be a true town home product uh it noted someone noted getting rid of wetlands I just wanted to reiterate that we're not proposing any direct impacts to Wetlands with this and we're providing an additional Wetland buffer to offset any what The Water Management District considers secondary impacts uh which is I think above and beyond what city of Titusville code requires but it's in conjunction with Water Management District standards uh City lift stations if the lift station were to be public which is with preliminary conversations with uh Water Resources staff it would be a public lift station to service this Southern development um it'd be designed to the city of Titusville Water Resources manual standards uh and and when setting the rim elevation of that wet well for the lift station we take into consideration our storm water design and uh staging so that way it's you know in in the series of a a large storm event it's still easily uh accessible for maintenance purposes for staff uh I think the setback that were mentioned in a previous comment were more specific to the individual town home lot setbacks uh for that individual town home lot of a a side or a rear setback we're still meeting all of the required PD setbacks as far as landscape uh buffers along State Road 405 and PD boundary buffers I just wanted to kind of clarify the the difference between a lot setback um based on our you know proposed building footprint and what uh a PD maybe setback from the full PD boundary would be and then uh to talk to our last gentleman's point about church access yes the applicant would absolutely be open to access off of their proposed roadway for the church and then removing that access to State Road 405 I think with our preliminary uh pre-application meeting with fdot before we went in for this application uh they uh had recommended that that is an option that's looked at as well I think lining up the access with Singleton and South Street on on uh that southern access point is What DOT would prefer as well it's a safer entrance for all parties and so the applicant would absolutely be open to that and then your second Point regarding sewer to the new property and staff can correct me if I'm wrong uh that would be a city requirement that would not be anything associated with our project the sewer designed for our project would just be to serve the limits of the PD any questions member of GAD well first of all member facon oh no I'm sorry I apologize okay member grod this is the second of two applications I can't recall is this also going to be fee simple subdivision for ownership individually platted correct so in the plat you'll dedicate the road through this project to the public correct so that's pretty much assured that you can work out the access to the church for that purpose alone thank you any other questions M time I terminate I'm fine with numbers um it since this is technically separate is the 40 foot height limitation acceptable for this application as well as the other one yes okay any other questions okay any other applicant representative won't speak okay I'll officially close CL the public hearing any questions any does anyone care to make a motion or I would just like to make a comment um I don't know if you remember when the liberman project came up Mary Spar who represents the Sierra Club she came and spoke with us and if you look at our future land use map on South Street you see all of the green which is um conservation and so she talked about the importance of this not just being these random spots of wetlands and and conservation but this is actually a a connected um I think she called it a green Corridor that was very important and so um I wish I had written down what she said um but I just want you guys to take that into consideration and also when you look at this neighborhood um behind you see it's I guess it's Overlook Terrace you can see the green that's surrounding it right here as well and I think that that's really an um as they've talked about flooding but this area it appears to me it probably was a lot Greener until all of this development has started coming in much shman um again this is an education for for myself question it I I think we're all want to be very sensitive to the storm water runoff issue um and and you know examples of like Garden Street and the things that have perhaps slipped through the cracks um I also don't necessarily know that we're the place to be the stormw cops that deny projects because we're scared the right thing won't happen at the Le at the spots along the way that they're supposed to happen as far as enforcement and things go how what is insurances do we the public everything have other than kind of best efforts that as we approve these things and those comments are made by by the applicants that yeah we're not allowed to and all that's going to be taken into account down the road that it really is taken in account down the road how does that work the code states that all storm waterer systems shall be designed with a discharge to a legal positive outfall I just heard the applicant state they're going to try and have a positive outfall to the wetlands I'm correct it also says an alternative to the provision is the runoff of development or redeveloped site shall not alter the existing drainage patterns or exceed the rate of flow timing volume produced by conditions existing before development or Redevelopment for the 100-year 24hour storm event so if if you're concerned about this maybe this is a question for you from you to the applicant as to what they um are willing to accept as additional conditions above and beyond um you know at the time of site plan is when when engineering is when they're going to determine really figure out what is really necessary um so it's un it's it's hard for us to make a recommendation or support something that um without additional information if you if you believe that there's additional information that needs to be provided you could do that it's just hard for staff to to recommend or or support any particular condition that's above and beyond what's stated here because this is something that you typically only evaluate at that engineering stage so if the legal positive alall is not an option then they'll have to design at a much more higher standard uh similar to what we just heard earlier for the other development that's in the area of critical concern so so I I think more of a question for the out well so one other question that I think does apply is does the I I understand that the outflow across the total property but in this case it seems like there may be a situation where the outflow from one corner of the property toward the lake could be an issue does does the outfall take into account so perhaps it's not going out one other corner but is it allowed to go it is that inclusive of that boundary and it can't Le you know I I'm having trouble getting across but is there leakage in one spot that in an overall calculation doesn't get taken into account I guess is what I'm trying to say I this I believe is a more relevant question directly to the applicant okay yeah um member Rogers um I was just going to mention I believe that this whole wetlands area is um of great interest to the Titusville um uh environmental commission uh as a potential location to move storm water to ex excess storm water 2 in cases of hurricanes to sort of store it and allow it to percolate down um so I think that's probably worth considering uh on the other hand um this particular piece of property is not a wetland it is a high uh it is higher ground um and so that's not going to be something that would be you know that that water would be covering and and and percolating through I don't believe um you know since it's since it's higher ground um but I do know that that area is of potential interest for that reason um to the to the extent that that's worth considering uh you know you decide but um I believe that they they have talked about that so R faing these two developments um cause me some consternation in a way um I know that we're talking just on B at this time but when we combine a plus b it's 136 units that we're looking at moving right off of South Street um where one unit says we can't put residents onto South Street the other one says we got to have two exits on the South Street it just doesn't make sense to me that doesn't bode well with me the other part was M moso here mentioned about the previous lady who mentioned look at all the green on these maps and I'll hold the map up so you can see not that I'm an environmentalist right but there's a lot of green on this map and it's been reduced and so we're asking today right now to reduce it even further with more impervious Pavements um that lady that she mentioned spoke about the importance of preserving our Greenery in this place again I'm not an environmentalist but the question that we haven't talked about is tyel is trying very hard to be a tree City USA so then my question goes into how does how this impact Titusville Tree City USA status when we continue to to cut down our Greenery our green trees our Green Grass and a byproduct of that conversation has been water runoff but the reality is we're taking away a lot of our Greenery in favor of development now I'm in favor of development I'm I'm not anti-development the next part of that then goes to as someone already said there's 300 units that are proposed on that side of the street and so the attorney here brought up dollars there's no developer in this to make money and I understand that I work with developers a lot I I I'm familiar with developers right but at the same time I I want development that is beneficial for my community as member Richardson said here I was born and raised here this is my town and I see no developers bringing development in for the current residents of Titusville thank you space center for bringing all high paying jobs is a wonderful thing but it's also made housing in Titusville unattainable okay the market rate in TI is ridiculously high one bedrooms are going for $1,500 $1,500 for a one-bedroom new home sales are anywhere of 300,000 and plus no one's building for the residents and I understand it it's hard it's difficult to make homes affordable these days I totally get it but right now we're talking about asking to rezone more of our Green Space for homes for residents who can't afford it that live here currently okay so we're talking about world runoff so my question to Brad is Tre the USA we are trying to be Tree City USA so if we cut down more trees how will that impact that status of Tree City USA I I'm not sure I can really answer the question as far as t City USA we just we do a evaluation or we reapply every year and just have to meet their their four benchmarks um as far as this particular development whether I think to your question is whether this how would this one impact our status I would take a look on I'd refer you to page 458 of your packet and you'll see the future land use map the current versus what's being proposed and you can see the difference in the acreage of Conservation Area is actually increasing I don't know if that means more trees are being preserved is more Wetlands being preserved so they got 38 acres when they're proposing 49 Acres of conservation well I don't see how we can save more trees by cutting them down to build buildings that that that that math ises a math for that math doesn't math for me so so you're asking I I can't answer the question as if our how this particular development will impact our tree City USA status I can't answer the one I don't know okay um but I as far as what's being preserved versus what's being taken out I can show you what's here the area that is currently um low density residential on the left side of that map is an entitlement that you can build on right now what the applicant is trying to do is not impact those Wetlands that are currently have that low density residential development and they're reconfiguring all of that according to the Wetland surveys they provided to us the net result is an increase in area that is Con that is designated as conservation land use and so the area that they initially were invested to develop on with 5 units per acre is now reduced so it will be an impact either the way the question is because of what they're trying to propose here it's less of an impact versus what they're entitled to currently thank you br member Gad I would try to chime into the question about tree protection preservation and planting I I think I recall the tree USA designation is multifaceted it's not just protecting trees but it's replanting aggressively and I also seem to recall recently the city's landscaping and tree ordinance was subject to review in which part of that was an exceedance on tree planting schedules and I believe there's also a provision for obtaining funding for aggressively if I use the wrong word but proactive planting trees so with the tree designation tree USA City it's more for new development post-development and Remediation of trees that are removed with new trees but it also has a component for protecting trees when they're as they're designated historic specimen uh other other Lon designations I don't know if that helps your understanding but that that's at least my understanding no so primarily the reason why I brought this up right is these videos or or these these meetings are televised and there are many of our residents who watch them who aren't here today and they want to hear that their voices are also being considered during these M during these these these these moments and so we know that we have it took us two years to get our tree ordinance passed and some of those folks aren't here today so at least let's speak on it and make sure that our residents know that this commission is at least taking them into account when we're making our when we're making our rulings or our our recommendations so that's what that was this wasn't a hot shot to anybody but it's there there are some some folks here who are very concerned about our our our community who watch these videos who are concerned about what developers are doing as someone said earlier most of developers aren't from from here they come here they build their products they make their money and then they leave and then we're left with what's left behind okay and that that that'll be me that'll be me my grandchildren my cousins my family is is who's left here okay so I speak for them not only for myself but for them as well remember Charles I was going to say um yeah I don't in this area and with the flooding concerns um I I'm not I'm okay with the future land use obviously it's increasing you know conservation but increasing density because we're what we would do uh like member moso said going from gen use to PD and um making it more dense down there um I I would you know obviously I could vote for the future land use change because you're adding conservation but um changing the density in that area um doesn't seem like a good idea but um I'd just like to add uh what was your name Tom doson the the map Mr Dobson gave us I keep looking at what's going to happen to the east of this parcel to the east of this parcel almost backing up to where Spring Hills Elementary was a parcel land that was adjacent to the former water tower that was in the estate of Judge Harris and that piece of property was sold to a developer lobbyist for $150,000 who then marketed it two weeks later for 1.5 million didn't do anything to the property and there's an agreement that a 501c3 uh um has signed to possibly purchase the property to build affordable housing making 10 times what he paid for it is not exactly affordable now I hear that a property that makes up the Whispering Hills Elementary is being discussed for another housing project so if you take South Street from Park Avenue all all the way down to where it bends right there kind of adjacent to the Swan Lake or whatever the name of that is that whole south side of 405 is going to be developed they they may keep some Conservation Area to prevent catastrophic floods but when you consider that and I think it was a member faing that said that if you were consider even the going over to Park Avenue just south of um Harrison they're building a new subdivision that was laid out so it protected the wetlands and everything but they've taken down a Heritage tree and that development you know that is probably 200 years old and was supposedly going to be saved because the bulldozers took so much of the the land around the the tree I mean if you consider that general area I mean you know it's my concern that we're taking a big chunk of Titusville and uh um we may be personally making it flood on purpose um I've got some reservations about this anyone else want to speak or get something off your you can keep speaking please come to the microphone please if you're going to speak General oh it was General I'm sorry yeah it's closed anyone else Vice chairman Aon uh Brad suggested I asked the applicant my question so I'm asking the applicant my questions as it relates to storm water within the boundaries containment versus leaking out um into this gentleman's Lake is does the storm water design requirement completely cover off all the boundaries that if there's a particular section that because of the elevation runs down and there needs to be ditch drainage pipe to keep it within the property that that's a requirement or so Norm so normally we'll see you know drainage sailes uh yard drains along perimeter boundaries behind town homes or single family lots we when we designed a neighborhood like this in order to capture that runoff so it doesn't run completely off into the neighboring property um it's all funneled into I think on this one it's it's two interconnected storm poms with at this point One Singular uh outfall location uh the outfall the pre-analysis takes into consider the existing topography based on the existing survey um the existing drain drainage patterns of uh the entire site and and both with the city of Titusville and the St John's Water Management District's approval um that that's a legal positive outfall to Brad's Point earlier that we can use um city of tusv code is is stricter for storm water if there is no designated legal positive outfall from preliminary discussions with St John's discharging to the adjacent Wetlands with a prevere post analysis uh would be a legal positive outfall that they would review and then approve during the Erp process but normally we've seen that you know our outfall uh discharge is calculated through the one control structure that discharges offsite it's it's we normally will capture boundary runoff so that there's not a you know a to your point a 50 foot stretch that just runs off into the adjacent property with the exception of the Wetland buffer area because there's no grading proposed improvements or anything within that that's kept as conservation and the positive outflow of the wetlands you're referring to who owns those where are those the wetlands on our property on the property it would be it's still within the property yeah but we'd look at the developable area we'd look at the existing topography the existing drainage patterns and we do a pree post calculation so it would be within that Wetland boundary um I think to one of the earlier points it's it's a larger Wetland system but it still would consider um what that 15.7 I believe developable acreage would look like so that would be the area that we're an analyzing as far as what that impact and what you know impervious surfaces are added what perious surfaces are added um uh and at that point calculating you know how much of a storm Pond we need we're proposing dry ponds to be in accordance with a lot of cidio titis codes in this area uh and consistent with other neighboring developments thank you U member Gad um kind of a followup in the same line so if I could ask you to come back up to the speaker um the speaker I'm sorry the microphone the um the has your preliminary engineering determined where the outfall is I heard you just say you were outfall into your wetlands and you were containing it within your site so the wetlands are part of a larger Wetland system um but the developable acreage that we'd be ass uh analyzing of what the prevere post would do it would not be any more than the predevelopment area correct we haven't identified a particular area but when we spoke with St John's in a preap uh they noted that was what they considered a legal positive alcohol based on on the survey that they had reviewed so uh and you may be familiar with this earlier I spoke about and Mr Parish corrected my understanding that you have an area of critical concern that has an increased volumetric standard this property however is not within that correct to my knowledge what that means the calculation is going to outfall a storm event that for the protection of the lake and the concerns of this peripheral flooding potential outfall on the wetlands the conundrum is that's good for the wetlands if you're containing it rehydrating it and you're actually artificially supporting the wetlands at a sight Improvement as opposed to protecting the flooding by increasing volumetric retention if you were to put this in a 100-year storm design instead of a 10-year you would contain that typical flooding that's not within the that doesn't exceed the 100-year event the 500y year event was referred to earlier um but on the other hand you're not hydrating the wetlands because you're containing the water in a in a in a containment Basin that then outfalls in the wetlands so the Dilemma of the horns is do you want to improve the quality of wetlands by having an outfall that occasionally may cause off-site drainage could it's all connected but probably in general wouldn't on a 10year event but if you on the other hand protect the potential outfall by creating a 100-year design you're not hydrating the wetlands so you you have a dilemma right there at least to my knowledge how I understand civil engineering drainage requirements understood and and I think and you can correct me if I'm wrong on this but I believe the requirement for this site both for St John's and city of Titusville would be the 25 year 24 hour that's okay yeah I believe we we still run uh St John's does require us to run uh the mean annual storm if it's over particular percentage impervious on the site which we'd have to identify later in the project um and they have other requirements if we're in specific delineated basins sometimes within what they call the Upper St John's Basin you may have to run the 10year storm as well but their true like Max design storm for this property would be the 2524 the upshot of what I was concerned with is if we're protecting the potential flooding we may be not protecting the wetlands by improving their drainage hydrology you can't have understood you don't want to hydraulically disconnect the wetlands and cause them to dry up and and understood okay thank you okay before you sit down fa do you have a question no okay I don't thank you oh okay any other questions anything else any questions of Staff anyone care to make a motion member m go this is a question for staff um just to confirm they're Bound by this plan is that correct referring to so the plan that they they're showing us that that's not um kind of a final um submission it can it can change the layout can change but the density is firmed by the PD thank you well I mean the the master plan is that what you're referring to um yes um it would have to I mean it would have to it it can't be substantially modified without coming back to you so it can't like we couldn't get a completely different plan say they sold off this piece of property after it got rezoned we we wouldn't come back and see um apartment buildings or anything like that it have to be substantially consistent with what is approved thank you yes and as I recall weren't the total number of units on this parel significantly reduced correct okay reduced from what what was it the units well reduced from the I mean it's a total of 62 units that's being proposed yeah but it was originally I think I think they had originally proposed 67 um they they'd have to correct me but um I think in the transportation report it was a lot more than that yes the the um traffic analysis that was provided was uh well above and beyond of what is being proposed here tonight I believe the traffic uh analysis propos 120 units on this the south portion any other questions anyone care to make a motion sorry I would like to disclose something I do a lot of door knocking and I did knock on their door and they asked me if they could show me the property and they actually took me on a golf cart right I didn't know that was going to happen can you say who is they I'm sorry um the do doson doson yes so didn't plan on going on a golf cart ride that day but we did so I want to disclose that okay [Music] motion comment you I was going to make a motion to uh approve the comprehensive planned use Amendment as stated is there a second of the motion uh question were the staff recommendations as part of your there was a I'm sorry there was a another member that had a question before the motion was made I don't know if youve caught that member Rogers I I just wanted to mention that whoever makes the motion um it won't be me but uh there was a mention of the limiting of the height to 40 ft um and I just wanted to I don't remember whether there were any other concessions that were offered regarding setbacks are buffering but I do think that was said if I am correct the height limitation I believe as Mr finer said will be on the second motion am I correct okay my mistake do I have to remake the motion yeah go ahead making the same motion as before to accept the comprehensive planned land use Amendment as stated is there a second to the motion I'll second seconded by member Gage any other sorry can I just ask a question this one is changing uh the land use from low density to conservation uh on 11.25 acres and then conservation to low density on 44 acres is that correct okay thank you any other discussion roll call please member faon yes member Childs yes member finer yes member MSC yes Vice chairman Aton yes member garad yes chairman Richardson yes okay the second motion anyone care to make it he okay okay make the motion uh make a motion to accept the change of the lot plan as staff recommended with the conditional use of the height being uh 4 F feet rather than 50 ft and they provide access to Forest Hills Baptist Church and the conditional the conditional uh requirement that they that it's possible that the church has access to the new road is there a second his motion second Vice chairman Gad just want to clarify so the so we understand the first condition your your motion is to approve as staff has um proposed in the PD ordinance all the conditions plus reducing the height of the buildings to 40 ft and and uh combining the entr the driveway of this development with the driveway or at least providing access from to the adjacent property owner where the CH church is to access this driveway on this development to Singleton if possible if possible okay correct okay any other discussion yeah you yeah roll call please member Gad Vice chairman Eton yes member finer yes me member Childs no member Moscoso no member facon yes chairman Richardson no and it passes four to three my main concern is the the flooding that's in this area and we've got to stop development in this area and one thing that I haven't mentioned is the concern of water pressure because of these developments that were passing uh and I have low water pressure sometimes in the afternoon so does people on Indian River Avenue and I think we're we're doing too much at one time uh M facing your light on fixed it any others any other discussion this uh will be heard before City Council next week at their first hearing Mr Richardson there were two others that recommended denial I think we I didn't know if we wanted to hear from them yeah I would agree with chairman Richardson um I wouldn't add the water pressure part but I agree with everything else I kind of stated that before I voted but yeah I'm flooding the flooding okay it'll be heard as I said next Tuesday night before the city council the first public hearing now we'll take another break if if you want to go in with a meeting or would you like to take the next items next two items at the next meeting just so you know your next meeting you have I think what five ordinances okay we'll take a five minute break see you tomorrow e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e a plan I'm only going to spend maybe five 10 minutes kind of giving you a quick overview I know you've seen this before these are amendments to the comprehensive plan that are specifically to the Future land use transportation and housing elements uh this all started about a year and a half ago with city council um telling us to go forward with the 2040 draft plan that we initially were about to adopt several years ago to just take what's out of there and kind of include it into our current plan so that's what we've done here uh we had the consultant with Kanan Associates who was later absorbed by kimley horn continue working with us on this there several presentations with the public with city council uh I've shared them with you I've included one of those presentations that provides some U background as far as uh data analysis and visioning it's not quantifiable data analysis kind of what their SWAT analysis with the consultant did which is basically just kind of looking at strengths and weaknesses of the city and seeing what can be done to help um achieve a better vision for the city so the amendments you see here tonight are compiled into divided into four ordinances the reason why we did that is because in case one ordinance or one set of amendments or part of this amendment is all under one comp plan Amendment actually but separated into four ordinances for several AC four actions rather if one passes the other one doesn't then that one that does not pass won't hold up the one that did pass so these were brought before you in a format of just a text Amendment strike through underline of the comp plan before uh you had recommended approval for transmitt to the state for review that recommendation was given to city council earlier this year they re they approved that transmittal during the transmittal hearing this amendment was submitted to the state for review we did not receive any objections the letters that I did receive I'm included in your packet from the St John's Water Management District um Department of Transportation and the Department of Commerce we had 180 days to turn this around uh we are close to that date so we did ask them for an extension so we have until February as our new date um the Amendments start on page 723 of your packet the first part of this amendment is the Citywide element it's a brand new element if you recall these are just policies basically to um kind of solidify the vision that the consultant was suggesting to us so page 722 your packet I'll just summarize what's here uh the ordinance proposes a new city-wide element goals objectives and policies that are brand new to the city uh they reflect the overall Vision that was originally created at of that 2018 Vision document this new element includes Regional economy addresses uh policies related to Regional economy quality of life place-based design and employment on page 727 of your packet is the second ordinance this is probably the one that's most important and the one that staff highly recommends approval this is the one for down the downtown and transportation so it affects some of the objectives and policies that are specifically related to downtown in the future land use element and in the transportation element the main point out of this particular ordinance or this portion of the amendment is the residential density pool concept if you recall what that is um I Mr fer was just knew on this commission so basically um for your understanding density residential density is calculated by acre for site in this case there is a policy that was included on page 733 and 734 of your packet this is brand new so it's uh the new strategy 1.10.2 point4 and 1.10.2 point5 so the first strategy defines what the residential density pull is basically calculating residential density of the entire downtown boundaries all the properties together and then as development comes in they can pull from that pull of residential density onto their property and potentially put a lot more residential units on a piece of property as long as they can engineer it and meet all the other design requirements than we would normally allow so right now we have a a 20 30 unit per acre of Max density in the downtown if a property owner can put more than that they can probably pull from that that residential density pool and put onto that property without exceeding the overall density of the entire downtown district so this amendment that we submitted to the state did not propose increasing density in downtown it's just basically a a different way of calculating it uh the Department of Transportation did not have any objections to that the Third ordinance that's part of this amendment um I do want to actually I do as part of this I do want to point you to uh page 740 of your packet um we added a note in the policy 1.21.1 if you see that table there that talks about all the different the maximum densities of each residential category or land use category we added this note number four to specifically state or kind of qual call out that uh there is an a different way of calculating density for the downtown we've also included the a reference to the Gateway or uh objective which if which is the third ordinance of this amendment and that is on page 746 of your packet and if you recall this is this is a new objective called Gateway quarters and this will be added to the Future land use element it basically will only apply to our commercial quarters specifically um you'll see on page 752 of your packet under the new object a new policy 1.24 4.1 specifically to US1 Garden Street South Street and Cheney Highway so this new objective will act like a like a land use overlay if you will if this is approved we have a code a land regulation that we will work on and bring forward as a separate ordinance and it will allow and Foster some Redevelopment of properties along these commercial quarters it does allow for an increased density however there are some things that have to be given in return or at least included as part of a development in return the specifics of how that will actually work we do have that um laid out um but that would be spelled out in the code so this policy or this new objective 1.24 Gateway quarters and the subsequent policies and strategies is just basically enabling language to allow us to go forward with a code that'll allow so come up with a tool for redevelopment opportunities along our commercial quarters the fourth and last or orance as part of this amendment is on page 756 of your packet and these are changes to the policy objectives and policies that are related to the housing element the background information I provided to you uh which were some excerpts from the presentations and studies that were that were presented by the consultant during the public meetings are on page 769 of your packet I've included that in there for you for your um information and with that I'll try and answer any questions you have any questions Miss moso yeah um it on let me see what page this is um page 734 of 821 um it says under strategy 1.10.2 point5 that um significant public benefits may be defined in the Land Development regulations and including the following and then you list how do we how do we um configure density bonuses based off of say if if someone says I'm going to um provide in uh improving parks and Landscaping is that that they get five more units or how is that calculated that would sorry that'll be spelled out in specifically in the in the code in the regulation so there there would have to be you know the Quantified measures the the how many any the policies you see here are just now allowing us to come up with that okay so that we don't have that defined we do have a draft do you okay yeah so we we will come back to you with that if this is approved and then additionally how do we um because I can imagine a lot of make possibly developments are saying well I'll just help with Landscaping how can we make it a little bit more balanced where someone would say Okay affordable housing so we have a a more mix um of these different um kind of public benefits if that makes sense that's a good question again I would have to say that that would be um spelled out in the code so we have anticipated uh live local and the need for affordable housing uh especially in the downtown the C the community redevelopment area plan really um harps on that and so that is something that's really important to the city so it's something that we would like to explore inside the development code as an incentive to say that if you want to utilize this full potential of this density pool the here are some things that you should provide in that in addition to that on the side project the city is doing a affordable housing study um to determine what our real needs are thank you member Rogers uh and by the way I'm sorry I didn't recognize you at the end of the last item uh it was it wasn't very clear it was fine I kind of muttered um you know I guess can I ask you guys to go to um 7 91 and we've got this fabulous picture of the streetcape this is from the U kimley horn PowerPoint um sorry I kind of need to shrink mine it's uh you talking about Palm Avenue yeah talking about Palm Avenue but I just I just want you to look at it and feel that Vibe and you know I think I think we'll all agree the vibe feels good all right continue on down to 792 that looks pretty good too this is Garden Street reimagined um and uh you know you got this median but you know you got those houses and the setbacks and looks good 793 now that looks pretty good too it's not quite as Shady um but you know it's this uh it kind of looks like Seaside or something like that it's great uh 803 go to 803 there's another kind of a different sort of little streetcape there showing you know how you could you could fit houses uh you know new houses um of a larger size in next to older houses I mean I think all of us can agree that all of those things can be a desirable look for the city um and there's a kind of a neotraditional sort of look to it and all that now I want to ask you why you like them so much and I'm going to tell you why you like them so much because every single building that you have seen here is either two or three stories tall you are not dwarfed by these things you are not made to feel insignificant they don't Tower over you they don't block out the sky and yet what we're maybe getting ready to approve here uh says on page 814 um with this incentive uh you know driven overlay that they can go to five or even six stories possibly and this overlay allows on all the entries into this city um the major entries that have been identified five-story buildings they say and again on page 814 it says 5 to six stories um and what I call that is you know a condo Canyon um I they tried to pull this a developer tried to pull this in Winter Park Florida and um I actually ended up writing a letter to the to the editor at the newspaper or the S star like you know that helped I would say defeat it but it's like kind of waving a a magic wand and saying you know well you know this everybody has to kind of have low buildings in the city because that's the kind of scale we want oh except over here you know or over here or over here and there's just this kind of like overriding sort of magic pass that allows this to happen um I really really don't like the special density overlay I am also very nervous about the density pool um I worry I know that there it has been explained to me that you know like the taller you go the more you have to set back and so that prevents you from having like a 70 Story Tower you know because you bought up everybody's credits or whatever you did but I I really really am nervous about the density pool but I'm more nervous about this density overlay because I think that's what you may end up with you like these pictures that they have shown you and notice they did not show you four story buildings fivestory buildings six-story buildings they showed you mostly two story buildings and a few three because they feel good five story buildings and six-story buildings don't feel as good especially when they're in a long line and you're in the middle of them you start to feel dwarfed Mr Rogers the on page 814 it says the increased density consistent with existing permitted Heights in a downtown which is five to six stories right now Mr Rogers do you have anything to respond to that okay member Gad um Mr Parish a question on the as I understand it and we've gone through iterations of this as it got to this this ripening um that the code will be written to address the implementation as tools and the development pool whereby in the geographic area you will allow so many units and to incentivize I'm sure that's got to be part of the background of this within the CRA to incentivize development Redevelopment particularly community redevelopment area that um you would have a pool and development proponents withdraw from that and intensify development in one particular tract of land which redevelops downtown which is what we want to do the pool is then reduced because you've borrowed units a transfer development rights kind of thing but it's kind of also sounding like what goes on in in the Florida Keys in the area of critical concern whereby they set a maximum number of dwellings for the entire Monroe County keys and you can buy a single family lot and then you can build a single family home somewhere else but you lose that you buy that development right uh Big Pine Key was where most of those are going from because it was a big platted subdivision and they turn into Condominiums H how do you see the development pool in terms of equalizing the value for homeowners property owners in general excuse me when you're taking a Mass area applying a mass maximum number of units and then you're reallocating them to here and to there where it's borrowed from is still within somebody's ownership how is that being Envision to work I'm very familiar with the the keys uh rogo system um it's a rate of growth ordinance and basically they have a maximum number of residential units they're allowed but then every jurisdiction has allocated uh out of that how many they can their share and so that's it that's all I can do so it's a little different than what we're proposing here so some communities have this density pull concept and so we looked at some of the other examples conjunction with the consultant came up with this language here that basically says and this defined boundary of our downtown here is the maximum density within this downtown that by right for all properties commun together so it's probably let say threshold is 2500 residential units but in the downtown we probably only have maybe a 100 or maybe 200 and then we look at the historically how what's the rate of growth going on as far as number additional residential units being created into downtown it's probably not much so we felt that there is a huge uh um potential of residential units that's being underutilized this Pro particular property has a vested right of res residential units is never going to be utilized because it's a city-owned piece of property where City Hall is going to be so this could probably be transferred over to some other property within the same district just by a property owner being able to utilize that pool we don't believe that there's going to be an issue as far as in the planning Horizon that all of a sudden we're going to run run out of residential units either we'd go through the comp plan Amendment cycle process to determine what we need to do possibly increase that if we need to anyway so we don't think there's going to be an issue there what we have is a uh an issue where each time a property owner wants to put in uh while I'll give you an example of a fairly recent example in um the uh uh Red Canyon development that's going on over the CAF chocolot building they re rehabilitated the whole property development it used to be a hotel they converted it into condos so there were never residential units there so they tried to equate each condo or each uh Hotel unit into a residential unit they couldn't do that so then when they calculated out with the 20 units per acre maximums allowed on that piece of property they needed an addition an increase in the density in that area in order to account for the additional two residential units they're creating even though the spaces are there so what the city did was go through a comp plan amendment to increase the density in the downtown from 20 units per acre to 30 units per acre mainly just to accommodate that particular development so the whole area increased uh dramatically that was passed fot didn't have an issue they saw that that it could work in this area because of our development pattern here could accommodate it further down the line though we're having an issue of some properties some particular um blocks where we have a proposed development protect uh for instance that might want to put an apartment complex the entitlement is up to 5 to six stories but they can't use that because 30 units per acre doesn't even allow you to get up that high so you have a lot of standards in place to encourage kind of re development and high density development in our downtown but they can't use it because of the the way calcul density is calculated so if they can engineer the ability to put in I don't know 60 or 100 residential units on a five-story apartment building on a block which our code currently allows the only way to do that without increasing the density downtown is this residential density pool concept we've come up with and I appreciate that sounds like a good plan and you work it out in the details if I give an example and I don't mean to be so abstract to be absurd but I think it's going to work to ask the question the city of tisol owns this property in its City Hall since 1967 I seem to remember when the groundbreaking was um and the city has the right to redevelop this to some extent they own it they equally have the right to auction it should they choose to move City Hall as some cities do to a new epicenter for the city because populations transfer from one place downtown to a new place Southside and when that happens communities are left with attractive land that's not attractive as a city hall because city services are now moved to a new location so cities look back upon themselves and say well on the other hand I do have this asset I have this 10 acres of valuable property that City Halls on and I'm going to auction it because someone will redevelop it if during the time it takes the city to find the funds to build a new city hall on the quote Southside end quote um years go by the development pool is being borrowed down on and one day lo and behold the developer of the rule finds out that they don't have any development potential on that piece of land for 20 30 or 40 unit Condominiums because the pool is eating it up but you could build a new city hall and of course the city's going to say but I don't want a city hall because I want 20 or 30 units on The Auction Block how exactly is the pool going to address that potential you're you're bringing up the scenario that we're going to come to a maximum eventually the last person in is not going to be able to use put residential development on the property because we've used it all up we don't think we're going to come to that point because of the rate of growth and even if it increases it's not going to come up that dramatically we are on a seven-year cycle of our comp plan too as you know so and then we're supposed to have it our Co our comp plan is a 10year planning Horizon we can increase it to 20 years if we want to but we just don't see ourselves coming to that scenario and even if we did what the city can do is incrementally increase density we could come up with a different policy to address that particular situation if we just pool okay that's a that's a fine answer I understand thank you um member faing uh you mentioned the CRA and I know this is a different topic but it pertains to the CRA and and with these pools so if we do find development my question is about parking um what is the city doing to address parking in the CRA so I got two answers for you if you look on page 734 of your package specifically just for the downtown in the CRA the incentives so that strategy 1.10.2 point5 so this is adopted of course we come up with a code to kind of spell out exactly how this will work okay but these are the kind of things if you want to utilize that pool to F some or full potential here are the things that you should do one of them is provide publicly accessible parking so in some communities what they'll do is they'll ask if the developer's going to put in a parking garage that certain number of those spaces should be dedicated for public use that happens sometimes so that might be a toll that but potentially be used there another hard to answer your question um in the same ordinance um page uh 741 of your packet and that same ordinance where it's a talk it's a amending the downtown policies in the future land use element the same ordinance we've included amendments or changes to the transportation element and I I can't recall which particular strategies or policy was but there we did make some changes in here to address that issue about parking the specifics about it though will have to be addressed in a code so there's L many strategies that can come up with to help address parking issues that might be in the downtown as we see growth happen I mean first thing is parking would be a good problem to have because that'd be a destination for the downtown but in many communities will can do um you can do a parking um uh fee so you basically uh you're collecting the fees for every develop to be able to pull to be able to create a parking garage or public parking in certain places um you can do agreements between different share property owners so that parking lots that are not utilized in the evening because the activity on that property is during the day that that evening time can be used for public space um the city at one point was in negotiations with faac to to use the parking lot that's adjacent to the old train station that's we didn't fulfill that but that's just an example of the kind of tools that the city could use so we try to include some policies in here to kind of address that issue and then the specifics would be addressed in the code okay any other discussion before we open the public hearing okay do we have any cards yes sir uh Vicky Conlin Vicky cockland 2920 Royal Oak Drive Titusville just a couple of points for clarification I wanted to understand more uh first is Shoreline mixed use that's objective 1.12 are there any RS in here that I've missed I wanted to know about the property on the east side of us one because I know we have condos there now and is there any move to restrict further development of high-rise condos on the east side of us one or is that still allowed the shorline mixed use zoning District that's currently on the East located on the east side of majority of um the of us one I believe allows development to go up to a height of 50 ft uh so we're not proposing changing that uh but this th those properties that have that Shoreline mixed us so long us one would be captured in this Gateway overlay um we in the comp plan we did not propose increasing the height we propose adjusting to density so but if you increase utilize that full potential of density I think it's up to 40 units per acre you have to provide these other things if you're going to do that so what we're proposing in the Gateway I'm sorry in the Gateway quarter is um this particular strategy in the code you can you if you have a piece of property has Shoreline mixed use or commercial zoning whatever that zoning district is you can redevelop on your property according to that zoning District no problem you have that vested right to do it so the Gateway or uh quarter uh policies is not taking that away however if you decide to rezone it or to increase add density to it or or do something that's currently not allowed in that particular zoning District that might trigger a requirement to go through some kind of resoning process whatever that might be that's when this Gateway coor okay overlay kicks in and so our what we're envisioning in the code the ordinance when it comes before you um it will have that procedure in place and so that'll be a public hearing with Urban design standards that need to provide and other incentives that are uh generally laid out right now in this uh comp plan but would be specifically laid out in the code okay it seems like we have what we have but I I I personally just discourage any further highrises on the shoreline is because we like to see our rockets and we don't want to build a wall against the river which is our asset so thanks for that explanation uh the next I have three total three questions the one is I would agree with um member Rogers about the five stories it seems like that as a neighbor that really puts up a concrete wall and then you don't get your sunrise sunset you don't get your Breeze it really becomes a block against you five story seems pretty much for our little Community here um but the third thing is access on the Gateway quarters and that's on page um 754 but I just wanted to make sure that to for so for me to understand that this was only impacting the Gateway roads that you specified uh one minute Lori go ahead and give her extra time because Brad and he took my time that's right thank you you're correct yes so I just wanted to be sure that that's the only roads and my concern is I wanted to make sure that we're not doing anything to alter in our comprehensive plan that states that um multif Family must uh enter arterial or collector and not local Road and I wanted to just have a comfort level of knowing that's not changing any of that there are current policies in the comp plan that talk about certain land use categories that allow that type of development even on local roads as long as it works correctly but there are other policies that specifically State how they where those those land use categories should be located mhm so we did not change what we're what this o Gateway overlay will do is primarily be located along those major corridors okay so those developments will have to have they have the frontage they have the access there you will see some so primarily that they could use that that that arterial where that's located but a mixed use development could have as part of that development a shared driveway going out to that arterial and then each of those types of uses will use that shared driveway to get out but that's typically something you see as part of a plan development so that's the intent here okay okay thank you very much next card Tony shiff chuff Tropic Street um this is a done deal already so I'm only beating a dead horse I wanted to point out on page 730 policy 1.14 the city shall not introduce approve or allow other land uses in an area where single family land uses are the predominant land use unless a proposed land study is ordered by Council so they can change it at any time so much for standards and things on um page 732 um strategies call for Arts but there aren't any downtown um I'm speaking specifically to strategy 1.10.1 point4 and 1.5 on 732 and it just it just says that you know we're going to have um art facilities and and the district is going to use um let me see where is it establish an active pedestrian oriented environment that includes existing art activities existing art activities maintain a robust presence of Civic facilities government offices arts and performance venues we have one theater that's atrocious blue how does utilizing on page 734 Brad I have talked to you about incentives until I am blue in the face and you don't want to talk to me anymore about incentives write the incentives that you want how does utilizing tax increment recapture programs cost sharing reimbursement grants tax abatement programs city and county impact fee assistance as a developer that's going to get me extra density in the density pool because that's what strategy 1.10.2 point5 says in order to increase the quality and volume of activity downtown these incentives are established to um and then they can get more Dent that doesn't make sense that's a bad I'm going to come in I'm going to use um impact fee assistance from the city to uh get more density in my buildings crazy crazy I'm worried about this because West Titusville is coming up and it you notice it's not here it's being delayed um and it's going to be a section all to itself that kemy horn designed and wrote Kim Horn again and then I just want to speak about the gateways um I didn't have time to go into that I was pretty tired after about 700 pages of your anyway before my time is up I just want to say the Gateway we're talking about the gateways and beautifying them and the city council is using the tree mitigation fund to pay over half a million doll to beautify the exit and entrance ramp at I95 garden and I95 Highway 50 half a million dollar what about the rest of Highway 50 what about the rest of Garden Street that money could be used for something other than planting some trees that are going to die and not be taken care of thank you for letting me speak any other cards Cas child one second I I had a question from Miss shipo yes sir yeah you left so fast so you were speaking of the Arts and you seem to be you I heard you say earlier before that you like the Arts one of the things the city doesn't have our street art vendors and there's plenty of space for it between the two corridors that are right there on on on U on us one um have you thought about participating in street art I have a very long career as a Performing Artist I have busked the streets of Paris I have been as far with my busing as Greece all around Europe Canada Jamaica Bahamas all across the United States I've participated in the Olympic cultural Olympics in 1984 in L LA all the way through the 92 Olympics in Atlanta I just recently was up in North Carolina doing music and juggling um no I've never considered working on what a story what what a what a story hisory I did jle Once in a city meeting though so and yet not here in this beautiful town of Titusville and yet now I must say now I don't want to be arrested I don't want to be cited for trespassing which I'm afraid would happen because you know most towns have real strict ordinances against street buing but but I I mentioned that because you mentioned about the lack of arts and yet here here you are a storyed artisan and yet you've not it done here in Titusville I don't know what the problem is I play in a band I'm going to Orlando Saturday for a big gig I can't get my band booked here there's no real venues here people want to listen to elevator music or they want loud rock and roll while they drink so my band doesn't fit there juggling um Street Arts I really agree with you there should be a program for Street Arts we should encourage it on weekends it would give people something to do other you know downtown um the Titusville Playhouse only presents what I call the Titusville Playhouse has a very particular brand of theater that they bring and I think that we should have other kinds of theater in this town and Street Arts oh my I could organize a program for you and run it and have artists that's a great idea I should go think about that by the way the Olympics were in Atlanta in 1996 oh sorry I can't remember everything that happened on I was there too okay did you see me I got to juggle in the I got to juggle in the Olympic Athlete Village next card that's the last card for that item oh I'm sorry Case Charles hello case Childs 476 Fern uh I'm just going to keep it short and sweet uh no parking garages uh keep the buildings the same height as what they are in downtown right now the highrises are already too much uh like Vicky said um we don't need a wall blocking off our River in the view of the uh in the view of the Rockets I mean when we have a major rocket go up 50 in Garden gets slammed and then so does South Street too uh so and I I hate the idea of parking fees as well so no parking fees no garages keep the height the same uh Art District would be pretty cool I developing that area where I think you said the corridor leads through right by the beastro uh I went through there for the first time and forever and uh I was like that'd be really cool if we had some Street vendors here uh so if we could have something like that I don't know if this is the right place to bring it up but uh that's my main thing short and sweet thank you quickly I'm sorry so Mr Charles so thank you for going downtown as you said you haven't been there in quite a while um the reason for parking is that a lot of folks want to visit downtown and see the same things that you haven't seen a friend of mine owns a business down there and so many people have come by and said how long have you been here it's like I've been here for 3 years I didn't know you were here I know because many of us who are from who have lived here for a long time don't go downtown because we don't think one there's anything downtown to go see M and two we know there's lack of parking so in order to utilize downtown we got to be able to park our cars yeah no I I get that um if we can find another space because I know on the other side of that uh tunnel area uh there's a bunch of parking right there but it gets silled up pretty quick um and then uh right there by the Veterans Memorial Parkway uh parking area that there's a lot of spot space there too uh we can we can make it more densely packed uh maybe widen it up and make make more parking in the middle instead of just on the two sides uh cuz yeah it's it's it's pretty wide there um uh I mean it's enough for some news trucks that park on the side and me still go through the middle of it because that's just what happened with the Polaris launch the other day um but what I meant by haven't been down there in a while was uh I had been to downtown a bunch of times but I hadn't gone through that specific area and didn't realize there was so much more on the other side so but yeah some more more art stuff would be cool uh I just don't I don't like parking fees and I don't like parking garages they those are the parking garages is where a lot of crime ends up happening unfortunately because it's secluded and no one thinks that anyone's watching and then it would just be more fees for the city to put security cameras in security guards and then you have to charge parking there too if it pay security guards security cameras it's too much so thank you right thanks well I guess that's all we have cards for police officer well that's that's point do you have anything to say officer okay we'll close the public hearing um I don't think what I've seen and with this comp plan is uh nothing but utopian in some ways because um Palm Avenue you got the courthouse and the theater on one side First Methodist Church and everything else I don't see any way it can be widened so I think some of this is utopian just a dream and uh I've opposed this since three years when it started when they decided their plan was to take all the parking around uh Indian River Avenue and make it into total Street vendors well that's reducing the parking but anyway I think I don't think this should come up now I think we got a new Council coming on in Janu uh December and it have at least two new members I think some of this stuff it's like I I told the staff at the last meeting don't go too fast with these comp plans it's for the new Council it's decide well I had my two cents anyone else Mr Rogers I um I just wanted to clarify something Brad you said that uh downtown that there were five story buildings or can we go to Six is that uh that's the standard the code allows it right now the downtime mixed zoning District allows up to stories and a with a um amend I'm sorry special approval up to six okay but when the like a with those um I keep W to say extra credits but the the density um pool could that go up by 50% um no the the comp plan that we're proposing is not proposing to increase the number of stories okay but what I was saying was about like picture Garden Street um right now there's there's not a single five-story building on Garden Street but if that zoning overlay um goes in then I much of Garden Street whatever whatever the section was or maybe all I don't know technically could be five-story buildings right are you referring to the Gateway quarters Gateway quars okay so let me see I'm looking at page 746 to 748 so the Gateway objective starts on page 752 uh well actually I'm looking at 746 uh yeah that's the the cover page that's a summary beginning of that particular ordinance is related to Gateway but I think you're referring to the new objective related to the Gateway Corridor only and that's on page 752 so it's a brand new objective with subsequent policies that are that currently don't exist but if this is adopted this will be part of the comp plan and this is where we're talking about these uh Redevelopment incentives along our commercial quarters especially properties that are um derel and could be ripe for redevelopment this will Foster that possibility I guess your question though is it what's the appropriate height for number of stories under this particular overlay yes okay okay uh P it's uh strategy 1. 2432 that's on page 7 at the bottom of 752 it begins there of your packet and runs on to the next page so it says here it's if this is adopted this is calling us to come up with a zoning overlay with incentive bonuses permitting higher density multif family residential uses and non residential or mixed use development with a proposed new Flo ratio of two and up to 40 units per acre with building Heights not to exceed five stories so if that's a concern that's something um we can either if the commission is has heartburn about this there's one of two ways that can be done if you want to go forward with this is either leave it as is or qualify with in um up to it says not to exceed five stories the way I would say that is that you know what that means that means five stories and probably means you know like well let me ask you because the the this policy is enabling language the specifics of how this is be um implemented will be in the Land Development regulations through that process we will identify where do we want to allow someone to utilize that full potential and some areas along these commercial quarters will probably say we don't think they should use that full potential this is the limit they should be allowed to use so with the policy would allow us to be able to you say that this this is what we want to encourage however when we go through the process of the land regulations and identifying where we want to see this fully implemented there may be some areas along these commercial quarters where it might be appropriate the downtown especially or even other areas along these commercial quarters but there may be other commercial quarters where it just probably is not appropriate and staff would make that recommendation as part of that code requirement and then bring that to you for input I just think I think that's a I think that's a really big change to suddenly go into this last minute like Amendment list or something like that to it's new you know and I I don't know I just like to say hey here's this you know I think this is a lot to chew on and I I don't like that and I I I think that the potential for really really screwing up the city uh is big and I also think and you know this more than I do of course but and always will but you know like I would say if you say you can go to Five floors and somebody comes to you and says I want to go to Five floors and you say no you can't CU you know like the guy down the street could but we don't you know like what you want to do or something then maybe you get sued and then you have to go to Five floors I don't know it's I'm nervous about this you can't the you can't violate the comprehensive plan can't what you can't violate the comprehensive plan so we can't approve a development that would be in violation of the comprehensive plan so if the code says uh to to answer the question that was brought the shoreline mixed use we come up with the code and we say well in this particular area Shoreline mixed use zoning in this particular area east of US1 this is the max we're going to allow you to utilize as far as this incentive two three stories whatever that might be or that 50 fet whatever that zoning says and that's it so that's a that's a code requirement but if they want to change the code or city wants to change the code or get variances they can't exceed what the comprehensive plan says because then that requires an amendment which then is another process yeah I just what I see is that this is an amendment to the comprehensive plan right yes this is a new objective and policy that's being suggested proposed in to be incorporated into the comprehensive plan I'm just still seeing what looks to me to be somewhat cart blanch to go to Five floors if you're on one of these three named um sections you know either Old Cheney Highway or US1 or Garden Street and I if I never see another five story building I'll be happy Brad I have a simple question for you was the um main uh the Palm Avenue widening and beautification was it not designed as a grand entrance way into the development that's going to take place in front of the marina those Towers you talking about Palm or or Marina no Palm Avenue the widening and beautification of Palm Avenue if it if could continues over Garden Street it'll enter that planned big development Sandpoint Plaza yes oh Horizon point I'm sorry yeah what are they're calling it now it's it seems to me it's going to be a grand entry way into there well just so you know what the consultant was doing as far as that study of palm when they first came to us several years ago before this project they looked at US1 and Hopkins like we've always I mean with the Ci's looked at many times and even wor working with fot to find out how we can redevelop or re utilize this street the consultant this time around tried to see if there's another potential and so they looked at Palm as an opportunity but they also what they were showing or what they were analyzing here was possibilities not what not to say that um this is going to happen but basically to help inform the decisions and recommendations they were going to make as far as the overall changes in the comp plan with that's related to the downtown so the examples you see in the in the the um visioning they were trying to they came up with for Palm Avenue was to help inform the decisions as far as other streets along inside of downtown and to help perform the decisions as far as which policies to amend or introduce new into the com into the comprehensive plan so yes I agree with you there's some things on here that's probably going to really long term if they would ever come to fruition but that's the nature of of a visioning exercise member fac just a quick question so during the the analysis was there a lot of traffic going from Garden Street to South Street and vice versa that us one needed an alternative thereby Palm no the cons no the consultant was I think that the last few studies and even the consultant noticed that uh with Fon I think the most recent one was a few years ago where they tried to look at what could be done along US1 um I don't know if you recall the peanut that was proposed at one point okay the round and there was another roundabout on gry street and some other changes um I think that was brought to city council at one point and they weren't supportive of it uh there was never funny it was just a a corridor study basically that's one examples there's several other examples even the consultant when they first started working with us was trying to see what can be done along us one what they decided to do was not kind of go through that exercise again they wanted to find another street that might be similar might be an opportunity for re revitalization inide the downtown they saw that Palm was a good uh case for that because it was not F maintained it's City controlled it's between garden and South Street so that's why they use that as an example thank you any other discussion Mr Rogers told you I had a lot to say so I'm just looking at page 753 um and where it's um where 752 starts to 753 and you know it's talking about targeted investment in the overlay I'm back to my overlay again she be supported by the Gateway Corridor objective blah blah blah blah blah okay so um lines 11 and 12 um on 753 higher intensity development along corridors so our five-story buildings shall transition to existing single family neighborhoods in an orderly fashion well like does that mean we have the five story buildings and then we have the four story and three story two story one story what that's asking us to do because again that's not a regulation it's a policy so it's kind of high level so it doesn't get the specifics of quantifying how that should be implemented this policy is asking us or the strategy is asking us that when we come up with the code come up with transitions so then the code will have to have some kind of um stipulations in there regulations there as far as form of development so if you have you allow some place to have a five-story structure and a sing you can't really allow something to have a single family right next to it so it's got to be some kind of scaled uh transition as far as maybe the ex original development needs to be lowered down and tapered down before it gets to that scale over a single I just think my my long lifetime of observation has suggested to me that one two and three story structures mixed in together look fine and feel fine four and five story structures you know but the you know and then continuing on you know I see um uh on lines 18 to 20 you know it said you know City shall encourage development okay encourage and incentivize through flexible zoning the development of multif family housing on underutilized commercial or vacant Parcels along corridors consistent with the infill policies so again when I see stuff put in writing like you know flexible zoning um to encourage multif family housing uh you know like it's I don't know that sounds like pretty broad language I mean sounds sort of no I I appreciate the question the city council actually addressed this just recently they've given us direction to come up with a code or an ordinance to address infill development on certain properties um small properties that are in between large developments but they can't be utilized because the standards are so strict the setbacks buffers whatever that might be the council has asked us to provide come up with some strategies to allow some flexibility so those properties can be utilized as well especially when they got the infrastructure there yeah you don't have to extend it why not allow that property to develop to its potential if possible so that's what council's asked us and this policy is basic I guess I was picturing like a taco place here and a car wash here and like you know looming over at all some massive you know apartment complex um and uh I guess that was kind of that was yeah here and the sermon okay anyone care to make a motion hearing none I'll make a motion that we approve the comprehensive plan Amendment languages presented is there a second second any discussion roll call please Lori member fa yes member Childs yes Vice chairman Eton yes member Gad yes member finer yes member Moscoso yes chairman Richardson yes I guess I still feel the same about it um next item is item 9d what I talked about the plan plain language initiative and we'll hold that off to the next meeting I was just going to say would this apply to member garan um so as I said we'll take that up at the next meeting uh can we get a motion to table that yeah I'll make a motion to table 90 Titusville plain language initiative until our next um meeting second yeah all in favor signify by saying I I my intention is was to have you all take a look at that and discuss it it was not intended that we had to vote on vot it on it tonight next item petitions and requests from the public present I'm looking down my glasses at y'all okay encouraging or discouraging discouraging had City staff report your next meeting we have several ordinances so just be prepared well seriously it goes and like we have a long meeting then we have no meeting then we have no meeting and then we have a long meeting that's true I understand we try to spread these out in fact we actually eliminated several items that were happened to ended up falling on this agenda but we're still left with four five someone from the staff should call me and discuss how long the meeting will be before it's published we know on a scale yes you do controversal controversial we get it Friday and y'all know about it Thursday afternoon how long it'll be how much is on the agenda well I mean I'm telling you now for the next one but I I could tell you that sometimes if you have one item on there that could take a long time and sometimes you have several items and it just happens to be a quick meeting so it's it's hard to gauge okay the council has a rule that once a meeting reaches 10 o' they vote on whether to extend the meeting or adjourn and that's not the way we do it but we'll do it next week at the next meeting well you kind of did it tonight we got to the break you want to go or you want take yeah City attorney computer just died no I have no report I have no report any member have a report what phone died it's 10:45 we stand a journ I'll be ar e