I'd like to call this meeting to order at this time I'd like to ask you to join me and stand and salute the flag and cite the pledge I pled Alle to the flag United States of America and to the repblic for it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all this meeting is convened in accordance with the provisions of the open public meeting Act of New Jersey let the official minutes reflect that adequate notice of this meeting has been provided by publishing a notice in the Asbury Park Press on Tuesday January 9th 2024 The Star Ledger and also forwarding same to the Toms River Times Toms River patch and wobm news on January 9th 2024 and thereafter posting same on the town hall bulletin board for such notices and filing same with the Township Clerk this meeting was also posted on the township web page Council Sosi here councilman lamb here councilman ion here councilman quinlisk here Council vice president otou here council president Coleman here item five are the minutes from the reorganization meeting on January 1st 2024 move the minutes make a motion to move the minutes a motions made by councilman lamb and second by councilman nion councilman lamb yes councilman nion yes councilman Sosi no councilman quinlisk yes Council vice president otou yes council president Coleman yes item seven will be an appointment to fill vacant Ward 2 Council seat the toms Municipal committee nominated the following three names George lomman Joseph Duff and Ashley shabo I make a motion for George lman I'll second a motion for George lomman was made by Council vice president otoul and second by councilman lamb Council vice president otou yes councilman lamb yes councilman Sosi I'm going to abstain councilman ion yes councilman quines yes council president Coleman yes we will now have the swearing in of the newly elected War Two council member lman being sworn in by his daughter Natalie zanowski [Applause] do I want hear what you said before will government in the United States and in under the authority of the people under the authority of the people and that I will Faithfully and perform all the duties of the office of to the of my [Applause] abil [Music] thank [Music] you item nine is a resolution of the township Township of Tom rer Ocean County New Jersey supporting the hiring of eight additional full-time CSO EMT emergency responders and providing for additional 247 Ambulance Service in the interests of Public Safety and Health especially for the elderly infirm and other vulnerable populations and to ensure comprehensive and responsive Ambulance Service throughout the township the township Council hereby supports and pledges resources for strengthening the Township's Emergency Medical Response Unit through hiring eight additional CSO Mt emergency responders and dispatching an additional ambulance for 24/7 coverage like to call for a vote on the approval of the resolution I'll second we have first oh it's first reading we have a second second AEM motions made by councilman lamb and second by councilman Lin councilman lamb just first want to thank the mayor as we all know as my a lot of my one constituents are in the crowd we have an emergent need right now that we build our CSO program we don't have a 247 365 day Ambulance Service year round for our beach barrier irland residents they've had many problems over there and the last Administration did nothing so again mayor Rodrick I want to thank you for leading the charge on this it's a difficult one but it's got to be done and I vote Yes councilman Lin yes Council m co um I'm going to vote Yes but um I don't know where the money's going to come from from what department from where how they're going to juggle everything but it it's needed so I'm voting yes councilman ion yes councilman quinlisk I agree that uh there is a need for more uh ambulance services but there's also a huge cost factor to keep in mind when you hire eight additional Township employees including benefits and pensions and everything else that goes along with it but there also needs to be a feasibility study done before we make such a leap uh there are other ways to provide this service to the uh to the Barrier Island and the rest of the town the county has already uh introduced something where they Prov they uh they plan on providing some ambulance relief over on the islands and there's also Partnerships we can do with tri burough and Silverton first aid squads and other avenues to do this to save the taxpayers money however I'm going to vote Yes for today but contingent on getting more information before we make a permanent stance on something like this Council vice president OU council president Coleman yes item 10 is an ordinance of the township Council Township of Tom zerver Ocean County New Jersey amending and supplementing sections 50-3 b 50-3 g and 50-3 R of the township code to revise the roster of positions within the Department of Law Enforcement this is a first reading may I council president yes okay any comments yes speak I'd like to thank the members of the council for supporting my initiative to add eight additional emergency medical responders to the police department tonight this will put an additional ambulance on the road 24 hours a day 7 days a week 365 days a year we have a very large vulnerable senior citizen population they can't wait 20 to 30 minutes for an ambulance and it's not just our senior senior citizens people on the island and in all parts of our community need to be able to count on a rapid response this is a matter of life or death and it's not an easy decision but we've begun the process and I want to thank the council for their support although the township was facing a $3.5 million shortfall this year we're doing this without any additional cost to the Township in the coming months there will be two captains retiring from the toms Police Department the salaries are $242 ,000 a year and the pension payment that the township is responsible for is an additional $180,000 a year all in with health insurance these two positions cost the township approximately $800,000 a year this will not impact policing and these two retirements alone will cover the cost of eight new emergency medical officers these are boots on the ground and it's going to save lives so I want to thank the council for supporting the initiative thank you is there a motion yeah there's there a motion on on the ordinance ordinance number 10 motion to move ordinance I'm sorry I apologize Jim thank you um yeah the tach clerk has read the uh agenda item which is number 10 ordinance of the township Council uh and at this point a motion to uh move the ordinance on first reading would be appropriate motion to make the uh bring the motion to the first reading okay uh is there a second I'll second that a motion is made by Council vice president OU and seconded by council president Coleman Council vice president otou yes council president Coleman yes councilman lman yes councilman Sosi absolutely not councilman [Applause] [Applause] [Music] lamb let have some order so we can move on here please I want to thank all the police officers in the room um that you're here tonight because it's an important it's an important vote what's more important in my eyes and after discussing with the administration also meeting with I've met with the chief over the past two years and I want to thank also councilman quinis for sending me the efficiency study from 2021 in that study it was just discussed how important that the CSO program the police CSO program remains in your house it shouldn't be Standalone it shouldn't be with the OEM it shouldn't be by itself it should be under the police department I've asked the mayor in all fairness to go to the unions and say look if you incentivize police officers to get their EMT certification which is very hard to keep and maintain would you incentivize your officers by having them supplement the csos for overtime and and need and and especially on the Barrier Island he said he would do so I consulted a study tonight carefully thank you to councilman quinis and Beyond being a standalone being under the police department going forward it was discussed that the technology increases with the CSO program that you have certain tracking software certain ability to schedule these officers and the reason for that is arguably the csos Beyond just Patrol officers are the unsung heroes out there as well and I don't think they get enough credit and I think that while it's painful to sometimes hear about attrition when you lose spots at the top Captain Lieutenant deputy chief it's it's hard to hear that however when you only have 16 or 17 csos out there or less and the mayor calls for adding 50% more I don't know how you can deny that's not important I don't know that you can deny when when residents come to every meeting and say we can't get a first aid call answered after 20 30 minutes the last Administration said too bad the federal average is 10 12 minutes if you have to wait six more minutes good luck well the residents don't want that so while I feel for the positions of Captain and deputy chief how they're needed in certain administrative aspects as of this date and time the mayor feels and this Council feels that we don't have enough ambulances on the road and for those reasons and for more I can even expound upon after the meeting I vote Yes councilman Iverson yes councilman quinlisk I was hoping for the big Applause that Dave got but my vote is absolutely no defunding our Police Department it's not defunding our Police Department that's not it that's a mischaracterization and you know [Applause] that it's a reallocation it's a reallocation of personnel thank I asked for more Ro time to talk it is my time to talk actually we moved on you don't want me talking now it's his time to talk it's your time to talk okay from out there I'm take uh let's let's get back in order please we are essentially defunding the police officers moving that trying to move that money from from the first people to every call the first people the csos are not going to be the first people to every call taking away our our officers uh taking away the uh the uh the captains in charge of making sure that everything uh flows is is cutting off our notes despite our face anytime that 911 call is made it's a cop that shows up first okay most of them most of them most of them do know basic life saving skills or a CSO or CSO if it's called in for a medical now I believe I said it before that we should have ambulance I wish we could make some division between these two subjects do not mess with the police department they are what keep keeps us strong now the same report the same report that Mr lamb just referred to said back in 20 or 2002 that our Police Department was already under man that was 20,000 people ago we were already under staffed they called for us to have over uh 173 officers at that time we're currently at 163 it doesn't sound like it's prudent that as our town grows as social concerns change as more handgun permits are issued that we should be cutting the police department absolutely not find another way to fund the csos and I'm for it thank [Applause] you item 11 is an ordinance of the township Council Township of Toms River Ocean County New Jersey amending section 165 45b of the township code to eliminate the adoption fees for dogs and cats from the town conserver animal shelter this is a first reading any discussion council president please okay um is there anything else in this uh ordinance that just to eliminate the adoption fee or is there any other things attached to this mayor can you address that question please well council president actually I think we should just ask the one of the township attorneys I I think it was drafted by Mr Mr Marino Mr Marino would you be able to answer that question the answer is no it's just the elimination of the fees but if you would like to hear from the township attorney that would probably be best that's thank you that's correct the only change in this in this ordinance before you is to eliminate the fee for the adoption of dogs and cats in the animal shelter apparently there's an overabundance of them there and this will encourage more adoptions it is eventually will will this be closed down and the county be taking it over that's a policy decision made at between the mayor and councel that question I can't answer okay thank you anyone else can I like to call for a vote on this Ordinance do we need a motion to adopt the ordinance on first reading would be appropriate yes a motion to adopt the ordinance I'll second a motion is made by Council vice president otou and second by councilman lamb Council vice president otou yes councilman lamb yes councilman lman yes councilman Sosi yes councilman ion yes councilman quinlisk yes council president Coleman yes item 12 is an ordinance of the township of Tom Zer Ocean County New Jersey amending and supplementing the township code to one establish the divisions of Road and sanitation Within chapter 40 Department of administration two repeal chapter 54 Department of Public Works in its entirety and three place the division of parks buildings and grounds under the department of recreation Within chapter 56 this is a first reading I make a motion we accept for the first reading second a motion is made by Council vice president OU and seconded by councilman lamb Council vice president oul yes councilman lamb yes councilman lman yes councilman seosi no councilman nerson yes Council CL L uh much like the attempt to defund the police department the original version of this ordinance was hastily put together and thrown at uh the council as well as the public uh this is a revision to uh make corrections to what was put together very very poorly and I hope that we can look at ordinance number 10 and and make corrections to that as well uh I will vote Yes to this Jes slow down council president Coleman yes item 13 is an ordinance of the township Council Township of Toms River Ocean County New Jersey repealing chapter 253 of the Township Code of the township of Tom's River entitled continued use and occupancy of residential dwellings this is a final reading and I have to open the public first have to open to the public i' like to open this to the public comment yes sir yes sir please please state your name and your address I don't see anybody being against this my name is Chuck Lang I live in 37 Cedar Drive THS River I'm a retired home inspector um and I've worked together with the building department in this town for many years um I have a question first it says that the ordinance will be repealed in its entirety does that ordinance cover the department that inspects rental housing as well as it says in it is very confusing to me that it says continued occupancy which sounds like your inspectors that inspect rental housing but it could also mean transfer of real estate property so clear that up for me first please so I understand and everybody else will understand all this only applies excuse me this only repeals the prior ordinance that was adopted twice over the last two years with respect to the continued CCO requirement and getting such a document in order to transfer title just for a transfer of real estate then correct thank you drg appreciate that uh that that would indicate that your inspectors that inspect rental department will rental housing will continue to do the same job am I correct there is however some safety issues uh associated with this this change first of all a previous group of folks in your position decided that it was in the inst of Public Safety to put this ordinance in place and I've seen many cases where there's improper workmanship done on homes homes get transferred and can leave in fact a safety hazard in that home if it's not properly inspected the job of a home inspector is very clear their their standards of practice are very clear and I'm very familiar with them the the purpose of a home inspection is to determine the general condition of the home by a visual inspection only at the time the inspection's done home inspectors are not required to reflect on building codes they are required under their standards of practice however to address and assess safety ISS issues glaring safety issues so you may be putting yourself in a lious position in what you're doing in that transfer Real Estate because it's been been past practice that you look at a piece of real estate before it's transferred and now you're eliminating that you may open yourself up to some liability that you wouldn't otherwise have you have any questions about those standards if you like and subject to the council president first of all this I don't first of all this ordinance was put into effect under the old regime I have been the president of Holiday City for quite a number of years and we've had a major problem with this ordinance we've had people that have done work in their homes maybe three or four owners prior that didn't get a proper permit the work was done correctly but they were being harassed by the building department they were being cited and the person that was trying to to sell the house was being held responsible for work that was done maybe 20 years ago and I don't think that's fair I don't think that's right and there was no alleviation from this and it caused several people quite a bundle of money to fix what somebody thought was wrong that wound up not being wrong after what was said and done and the building department had a lot to do with that and they weren't listening to anything that anybody had to say so there was a lot of wrongs with this ordinance well this Township is not the only Township that requires a an inspection by the building department upon transfer of real estate most townships require that right and it's a money maker for the most part I don't I don't think that's the major objective of it if you want to look at it that way that's okay but I think safety should be the the perspective here any more questions of me um have you ever been to court because of a I'm sorry am I you ever been to court because of a bad Home Inspection no but but I've I've been uh testified I've been I've testified in court about construction issues and improper workmanship in the past I've spent about nine 10 years as a professional witness for construction litigation so I'm familiar with the process thank you any other questions thank you gent else comment and yes sir please come forward Paul Jeffrey 1661 Bay Boulevard ortley Beach I'm here speaking as an individual not as an officer of ortley beach voters and taxpayers Association I understand that the ordinance was was very honorous um I heard from the real estate agents how terrible it was to get through the process that doesn't mean that it's not needed um I live in ortley Beach I can tell you a neighbor a few doors down bragged to me about how as soon as he got got his Co he would convert his third floor um room into his bedroom because he had all the wiring and the plumbing done Behind the Walls he just needed to open up and do it himself little neighbor the other way bragged to me about the fact that they had put all the plumbing under the cement pad in advance so that as soon as they got their Co they could break up the pad and install their ground floor bathroom ortley Beach is rampant with illegal Construction um part of it is the fault actually in the in the past as well of the township uh the township records are disaster um I still have a 12-year-old building um permit open I've tried three times to close it they've come and inspected many times over the 12 years it's still open I want to sell my house God knows how long it's going to take me to find someone to finally look at my final approval and say yeah let's correct that in the records so part of it is historical but I am fearful that we are going to see a disaster there are too many people who were converting third floor wreck rooms into bedrooms and guess who's sleeping up there the little grandkids there's not necessary fire erress um I don't know the situation in the northern part of the township but I know there's been a lot of converted basement as well they don't have fire erress you can repair this ordinance but you are going to have a disaster so you need something it to replace it to be sure when a house is sold that everything done in that house was done with a legitimate permit and is safe thank [Applause] you anyone else would like to speak towards this ordinance come forward good evening mayor members of the council Bruce Shapiro representing New Jersey Realtors at 10 Hamilton Avenue in Trenton I want to thank you for uh putting this ordinance forward I'm I am here tonight on behalf of the Realtors to speak in support of the ordinance repealing the town's MCC requirement or certificate occupancy requirement we strongly support your efforts to streamline and ease the home buying and selling process here in Toms River by repealing the requirement which as many of you know uh after it took effect led to many delays uh in home sales and in some cases home sales falling through um in addition when the ordinance was adopted the fees were among the highest not just in this area but all across New Jersey um and we were able to work with the previous Council on some amendments to the ordinance to make it a little better but we do believe this is a positive step um to take this ordinance off the books and also we'd like to thank the mayor for um I believe suspending the enforcement of it at the beginning of this month uh by repealing the ordinance the count Council will be sending a statement to the current homeowners here in Tom's River as well as those who may be looking to call the town home that the town supports its residents both uh past and present while the ordinance will officially repeal the town's inspection requirement that took back back in 2022 I would point out and this might address some of the comments that you previously heard or may hear that prospective home buyers often do have their own inspections done uh before they purchase a home which can uncover many issues and they can make a decision uh based on what they find whether they want to purchase the home negotiate for changes to it or look at another property whether it's here or elsewhere um by eliminating this requirement which could be viewed as implicative Toms River is creating an environment where homes can be sold in a war streamline while still safe matter in addition lastly I would point out uh that the requirement does not repeal one of the mandates that is in effect from the state that a fire inspection still Tak place that being the inspection for the smoke carbon monoxide and bio extinguisher so there is still going to be some inspection done by the town in addition to what may be done uh by a private home inspector so in closing I would ask the council to vote in favor of this ordinance uh to repeal the mccu requirement but also whether it's on an ordinance like this or anything else that might impact the towns real estate market or homeowners please feel free to reach out to us as the State Association using us as resource we do work on ordinances all across New Jersey having some type of impact on real estate or home ownership and um with that again I ask you to vote in favor of appealing this ordinance and if there are any questions I'm happy to answer them council president I have a question gentlemen um how do you feel or what's your opinion when your fellow workers come up and they represent the buyer of a home in Tom's river and they always uh stated caveat caveat edw how do you feel about that I mean did you're representing a buyer and you're basically saying tough luck if something's wrong it's not our fault I mean there are numerous things that can be addressed when a home is being sold one obviously and this is something more on the seller side there's the property condition disclosure statement that many sellers fill out with information about the property whether for example let's say there was water or mold damage uh flood damage anything about the physical condition of the property and again a lot of the issues that may be uncovered um would be uh Unearthed when the the U potential buyer has a home inspection done using a private home inspector listen well I agree with you and uh Mr Jeff that the I think the fee I was always against the high fee I think $50 $75 is more reasonable but we do need something and to protect the township you know uh other towns have uh hold harmless agreements you know for the new buyers if they find something wrong that there was uh you know the basement was finished 20 years ago garage uh I'm I'm for that okay and and and I think it just has to be streamline but we we we need something simpler and more reasonable I think for fire inspection is like 775 and um so but thank you for the information no problem and on the issue where let's say a basement was finished 20 years ago uh without permit and the home was sold 3 times since then without any issues we have go ahead oh uh we have seen towns do something uh where you know once or twice a year they hold um uh days where you can get the permits addressed no questions asked that is something that can be looked at here if that is an issue in Tom's River uh and if this is something that is repealed tonight and down the road uh like I indicated the town is looking to do some type of inspection requirement we obviously love to work to on that but we do think this is a positive step to have okay thank you thank you sir Phil brilliant 79 Holly Trane so comment and constructive comment first of all the mayor has already put out M it's an executive order ceasing all all inspections ceasing all Need for cosos I think it was January 2nd or 3rd that came out it was on the website went out to all the residents it has stopped so why don't we stop right now why don't we listen and think about the fact that we have an opportunity to correct the wrongs of this ordinance as opposed to abolishing we heard the price is too high okay um councilwoman OU I heard you saying that people were in their house they didn't know 20 years ago 15 years ago people had done work and now they were being called to take care of it by the inspectors of Tom's River Township not right not only that but these people bought a house in good faith now they are being charged for permits inspections all kinds of things that were done 20 or 30 years ago you got to remember in an adult community I hate to say this but there's a big turnover I mean houses come and go come and go and some people follow the letter letter of the law and they do the right thing they get the proper permits and all some people don't something slide through the cracks as the gentleman said before that he was waiting for how long for to close out a permit 12 years uh that's a failing of the building department as far as I'm concerned You're Building Department the building department your building department you are now the councilwoman we need to fix that yes I understand that we are we are by getting rid of this right no no we're not no all we're all we're doing no we're not all we're doing all we're doing is not uncovering the improper Construction in homes okay let me let me ask you something so I get three minutes when when you put your house F thanks yes did you have uh proper walkthroughs did you have people come in and and investigate that usually happens with most of the that are sold completely and usually things that are improper that are not right are asked to be fixed to be modified whatever so this is done you can see and that the inspector as Mr Lang said for the most part this is done when you buy your house correct so the owner has to take care of whatever but can I ask you a question and I'll ask Mr what part of that inspection requires the inspector to go downtown to see if there's open permits nothing should be relied upon by your professionals your attorney you hire you also should have a very good realer there's a couple reers in the crowd that are good at that that's who you should I believe you're an some type of Inspector right okay you should be a professional and do that is it a requirement is what a requirement that somebody go downtown to see open permits I don't believe believe so no it's not and if we remember what's happened here in the past few years open permits have been uncovered that haven't been done because why because they had to look at them okay why why because of the co okay we're getting rid of that tonight so know but I'm saying though is you've already gotten rid of it what I can't hear you what you've already gotten rid of it the mayor put an order what I'm saying well it's the final reading just so you know it's I I know but what I'm saying though is stop right now stop what don't approve the final reading no look at the or look at the ordinance and amend it to fix it cuz what you're going to have happen is what Mr Lang said okay you're going to have uninspected electrical you're going not going to have in different areas where they've built out you know how many people you see parking in their driveway on Snowy nights you know why because all the garages are Apartments okay these are things that yes buyer beware okay but at the same time Township beware open permits and improper construction is the responsibility of this Township I disagree with that it you you enforce the law sounds like you should be a good neighbor if you see your neighbor doing something wrong why don't you call see something say something don't you think is that the government's job or is that your job you know what be a good neighbor I but that's not my job that's your job you tonight no tonight we're going to end that again here for the resident tonight we're going to end that you are here for the resident River read the room we are what you're doing no you're what you're doing is you're abolishing something and why should government be involved and then why should government be inv in it tell me say again why should government be involved ask me questions because you know basically why why because this is an inspection of your code okay when the home inspectors and I could ask Chuck Mr Lang does he go for code inspections or looking for safety and everything like that okay this is a town that enforces code this Council enforces code if there's a problem with the bilding Department fix it again I'm not not saying I'm saying that what you have in the books is crazy I agree it's gone the size of the letters your house garbage cans have to be the crack garbage cans there can't be a crack in your sidewalk that's what they're failing people for you aware of that or no they're fa I'm hearing you're failing people for rooms that were built they're failing well I'm telling you what they're failing people for for wrong numbers in your house wrong size numbers wrong garbage cans you don't have the right requirement is the requirement it's in the code it is it's the code well we're getting rid of it tonight again no it's working out think also failing people for improper construction electrical egress yes it is excuse me I think we're rehashing the same thing over and over and over again so we need to come to a point and make a decision what I started with it's already been stopped it's over you have the opportunity to amend it as opposed to abolish it okay take that opportunity tonight and work on it better towns all around us can make it work Why Can't This Town that's what I don't understand thank you thank [Applause] you uh anybody else yes sir please come forward oh it's a woman I'm sorry I couldn't see you there you go Pat claso ortley Beach um one of the things you Justin you said if you see something illegal report okay and people would do that however they've changed the rules that if you report it you cannot report it anonymously the problem is I'm still going to be living there and I'm going to have a neighbor that's going to be pissed off at me and as Paul said there's third floors going up I have a neighbor that has a third floor it's for storage but you put a deck there does your storage need to look out at the bay there's so much illegal going on that something's got to be done you have to write an ordinance to catch it now the other thing about oh something was done 20 years ago and if it's a problem that could cause something to happen at what point do you get to the place and say everything's up to code because then it's going to be 30 years then it's going to be 40 years then it's going to be 50 years so I'm not saying that you do away with it but you may want to look at revising it so that we can get the entire town in line with the codes you know when the they did the re-evaluations people that had third floors and stuff or or put an extra room in or something they're like no don't come in what they should do is when you have an inspection or whatever come in if there's a third floor and they don't let you in you say okay because it's being taxed right now as an attic they're finishing it off and they're get getting extra living space space that's not being taxed which is affecting every other person in town that are following the rules so I'm losing money because somebody wants to put something illegal there because they're getting more space now than before so that's all I have to say just look at something that we can do to get things in line thank you thank you anyone else yes sir oh Ma'am I'm sorry it's hard to see back [Music] there yeah if you can pull the mic down a little bit no you could take it out also just pull it out there you go okay uh Julie Adam 69 Cedar Grove Road Tom rer um I just want to let the council um know that I think it's a very foolish step um very shortsighted on your part to repeal this uh ordinance there like the other uh members of the audience have said there's a lot of illegal work that's been done in Tom Sher people that have not bothered to get permits people that have not bothered to use legal contractors and uh things that are dangerous just think back to that young teen that got electrocuted at that dock where that electric uh the electric wires had disintegrated and she got electrocuted and died uh we've had we there was people in Beachwood where they had an illegal apartment and the person died in a fire because there was no egress from that basement of fire and that was just a few years ago within the last five years so as much illegal work that's being done and if you repeal this that's going to mean that all the people that like to do illegal work that don't want to follow the rules that don't want to pay $75 to get a permit or to have their work inspected they're all going to flock to Tom's River because the other towns nearby are requiring an or requiring to this uh Co so I think it's detrimental to the town and I like I said it's very very shortsighted on your port I just add one more thing I personally think that this the short the other reason I think this is shortsighted is because I sold a house three years ago so I I had my experiences with real estate attorneys and Realtors there's good ones out there there's bad ones in every single field and as far as Home Inspections home inspections are not mandatory so you you keep saying that the owner can get a potential buyer can get a a home inspection it's not mandatory so there can be a fire a blatant fire hazard that that new person walks into um so like I said you're just endangering the public with [Music] this okay anyone else yes ma'am please come forward good evening mayor rodri uh and members of the council my name is mar I am representing MTH ocean Regional ra our adress is 1144 Hooper Avenue I'm here to speak in support of the ordinance before you tonight repealing the MCC requirement here in Tom River on behalf of Mammoth ocean Regional railair I'd like to first thank you mayor rodri for suspending enforcement of the mccu requirements until this ordinance can be formally adopted as you know the ordinance while it may have been well int uh intentioned present uh presented many challenges and unintended consequences for those buying and selling homes in Toms River when the mccu requirements first took effect in 2022 as you know there was much confusion surrounding the enforcement of the ordinance and many of the requirements either delayed for a substantial amount of time or LED to home sales ping through in Tom's river in addition fees to obtain an McCoo were much higher not just then uh not just then for other towns in oan County area but also for towns all over the state of New Jersey because of the unintended consequences associated with requirements in the original NCC ordinance the Council made several amendments in the for a later part of 2022 to try to ease some requirements while we were supportive of these changes we also believe it is prudent that the council move forward tonight with the repal of the MCC requirements here in Tom sh we would like to point out even if the town moves forward with repealing this ordinance homes being sold here in Tom serice still likely will be inative at the request of the buyer who often has a home inspection done prior to the home so they're aware of any potential issues with the home before they buy it in addition homes still have to obtain the state mandated fire inspection again on behalf of M oan Regional Rail servs I would like to thank you for considering the consideration of this ordinance tonight uh mayor rodri for suspending the your requirements and urge you to vote guests on this ordinance have to answer any questions if you have thank you anyone else seeing no hands like a motion I'd like to I'm sorry like to say a few things here for anyone who thinks we're just going to turn a blind eye to Illegal construction and any anything that's been done illegally we're going to be working on a a task force an illegal construction task force so any of these safety issues we're going to try and address those but the previous administration it was a money grab and we all know it safety might have been in there somewhere so we're not just turning a blind eye to safety any IL legal construction for anybody who might be thinking that so we're going to take a long hard look at [Applause] that motion to close public comment I'd like to take a motion to close public comment on this ordinance I'll make the motion second have a second all in favor all in favor I I I what's council's pleasure on the I'm sorry what's the council's pleasure on what's the council's pleasure on the ordinance anybody is there a motion to adopt I make a motion to adopt pres to table it second the motion to table this ordinance appeal can we have a vote on that please to table a motion to table this ordinance was made by councilman Sosi and seconded by councilman quinis especially in L of what uh uh Mr kniv just brought to our attention because killing this ordinance without without putting something in place is going to be difficult to do ahead of time uh I think uh um correcting the wrongs of this are more important than killing it um as far as it being a money grab I'm sick and tired of hearing that if anybody has any clue what it cost to put employees in place in Tom's river or anywhere this is definitely not a money grab it's not a money it's not a money maker for the town reasonable it's not about money it's about safety and uh officer lamb the size of the numbers on your house are important so that we can identify it when we pull up for an emercy mergency just see you now there is a motion to table the ordinance again the motion was made by councilman Sosi and second by councilman quinis councilman Sosi yes councilman quinlisk hell yes councilman lman no councilman lamb no councilman ion no council vice president ouul no council president Coleman no [Applause] is there a motion to adopt the ordinance I'll make that motion I'll second that motion second Tom second a motion to adopt the ordinance was made by councilman lamb and second by councilman ion councilman lamb first off I just want to say I'm I'm a Believer in small government I think I said that a few times since I've been on Council this ordinance was overreach extreme overreach and Jim yes you should have have the right size numbers on your house do you know how big they should be 4 in is it four exactly well the idea is that there's people getting failed for it and they're getting failed for crack turn sidewalk they're getting failed for I mean we got to talk about the rental Co next there's people getting failed for having worn out carpets holes in their screens I mean these are issues that have to be resolved so we got to stop government overreach and I think the mayor is is uh going to lead that charge and arguably even though I heard both sides speak I think again I I listen to both sides about the issue I though believe that the township is possibly at risk of exposure of lawsuits by having this in place and I do believe that um I want to thank mayor rodri and those council members that again agreed to pull this because this was a money grab $300 plus a fire inspection of 75 is a money grab Jim so for those reasons uh we've been fighting this for over 18 months I vote Yes councilman ion yes councilman lman yes councilman Sosi uh no of course but um I feel so strongly that we need something in place streamline the fee 50 to $75 no reinspection fees but we do need something okay it's not for the good people it's for the people who take advantage of it so I I think it's going to come around and get us so I vote no councilman Quin I still say no you're diminishing the quality of uh I don't want to say it that way but you're diminishing the the value of the properties in Tom's River if you've got this coo ordinance uh and and a buyer presents it to the seller the seller knows they're getting a good product they don't have to question all this stuff uh whether the house is safe or whether the house has legal rooms whether they're paying taxes on a room that that that doesn't exist or not uh it's it's a matter of safety on top of everything else and I do want to point out that that the biggest uh opponent to this uh this this ordinance was Kim Bell uh realtor for Remax who by the way uh Set uh was number three in volume from Remax and number one in overall unit sold so she did a great job so I don't understand how it hurt the real estate industry at all thank you no council vice president OU yes council president Coleman yes and I'd like to just um say my experience with this I have friends who've been trying to sell a house now for several years and told me some of the issues that they've had to address the downpipe on their sink drain um changing all the gfis even though the house was protected by gfis for many years my house is protected by gfis not the most current ones but they work just fine because when I get a rainstorm it knocks out the GFI so they're working just fine it was some of the silly things that people were failed for and then when they made the correction uh the inspector would come back and approve the correction and hit him with another fee so I think a lot of the residents are fed up because they think some of the things that were pointed out and Fa failed them uh were unfair and unjust therefore I vote Yes we'll now move to the consent agenda all matters listed under item consent agenda will be enacted by one Motion in the form listed below there will be no separate discussion of these items if discussion is desired on any item that item will be considered separately do any members of the council wish to uh have any of the resolutions discussed further and pulled from the the consent agenda okay at this time I'd like to have the public have a chance to address any of the resolution yes sir come ready up good evening Paul Williams Broad Street Tom's River uh item a now I don't know if you want to do the comment now or do you want to go through it and do your vote first it's up to the council president he asked for comments so you may do the comment now sir thank you sir uh with regard to item a the resolution of the township warning Laura pako as Municipal Alliance coordinator for this fiscal year just curious and it's a very brief question do any of you know what a municipal Alliance coordinator does say that again do any of you know what a municipal Alliance coordinator does I think she has other um duties in with that not exactly no so I'll Enlighten you a little bit on something that you're about to vote on that you have not been informed about a municipal Alliance coordinator is something that's created by the state for every County in New Jersey for every municipality in New Jersey to have a municipal Alliance coordinator that is supposed to in theory and in writing help to address alcoholism and drug abuse in this particular area it's a pretty significant issue and I almost want to be surprised that nobody knew what a municipal Alliance coordinator does particularly from our Council but nonetheless there's funding attached to it and if you don't have a coordinator you lose that funding so I'm not opposed to this person being appointed to that position but I want to urge you and urge all of you and and the public as well to hold these people's feet to the fire because the previous person who was a coordinator it's my understanding did practically nothing in terms of what that position and what the funding was intended for as a municipal Alliance coordinator and that's no particular knock on that previous person because I would venture a significant bet that the person before that person like wise didn't do it it's a political patronage job typically I urge you and I urge the public to hold this person's feet to the fire addiction substance abuse it's no secret we all know it's a significant issue it's a significant issue for me particularly and and many people are aware of this some of our new council members aren't aware of this I'm a formally incarcerated person by the time I was 21 I had three armed robberies my record could probably fill a filing cabinet and that's no brag that's no flex it's just the facts I've served a total of 17 years in New Jersey state prisons through two different prison terms probably a couple years in jail on and off it wasn't about drugs or alcohol though I had life management issues and state raised foster homes residential placements as a juvenile by the time I was 18 I had gotten arrested I had plans to go into the United States Marine Corps but that arrest squashed those those dreams of mine to go into the Marine Corps but through my time almost every person that I've encountered in jail and prison had some form or another of an issue with drug and alcohol the last time I was in prison was in 2011 and I've had bumps and bruises along the way but I haven't resorted back to the life of crime and in 2012 I Incorporated a nonprofit to assist other formerly incarcerated men and women who were like me that were returning back to the community and on a very fundamental level needed a guiding hand and through those men and women that I've enountered encountered since then they also have had issues with either drugs or alcohol but it's interesting you can look in almost any direction in this area and spit and hit some kind of drug treatment or some kind of nonprofit that's supposed to be about addressing this issue the municipal Alliance coordinator is also supposed to be about addressing that issue we are failing that popul ation of our citizens our fellow citizens for many of us it's our family members we're failing them by an inept effort to address and resolve these issues but nonetheless I hope that all of you will heed my warning my urgency to hold our Municipal Alliance coordinator who's the person that you have the closest contact with to hold that person's feet to the fire and ensure that they do the things that by Statute and by state policy they are supposed to be doing in order to maintain that funding other than maintaining a position thank you Mr Williams I just wanted to let you know there's no salary attached Mr Piro she's going to be heading Senior Services here uh we brought her over from the county she does a fantastic job uh she worked for the town once before for Senior Services she was able to work miracles uh and get people their heat back on and she ran around doing good things for people every single day and I'm confident if there's anyone that can ensure that the grant monies are spent correctly it will be Miss Pico and again it's not a patronage part uh position I had no personal friendship or anything or no one else here um with Miss peuro she's just a talented person that we hired to do a a much needed job through the council president if I can touch on that for a moment touch on that I would like to be mindful I would like to add something to that go ahead I know this woman for a number of years and in my community she worked miracles again with people who couldn't afford heat but she got them heat whatever the circumstances were whether it was ill health whether it was the housing whatever she was there she did it she has a track record that very few people can beat it's free and is responsible so totally so here's what I want to touch on just very briefly because I know my time is up both of you spoke on two things with regard to this person that have nothing to do with the responsibilities of the municipal Alliance coordinator however as as the the department that she is going to head up that's great those things those are great she she seems to hold that but understand something when it and I'm sure some of you may know this when it comes to Grants if her energies she has to keep a time sheet in order to get paid and reimbursed okay in order to make even if it's not a salary there's a grant attached to that and she has to keep a time sheet of where she's going with this and if her time sheet shows that she's working 120 hours between her Municipal job and this grant-funded uh uh item there might be an issue for the township so again hold this person accountable if they are working in a municipal position great do that I can't speak against someone who's helping people get their heat turned on I can't speak on that I'm concerned with I'm concerned with anyone who occupies the position salaried or not that they are not doing the fundamentals of what that Grant requires of them to do for the for for the benefit of our community as well as the people who are suffering with substance abuse well excuse let me can I just we would certainly be interested in your help Mr Williams and I'm sure curo would be you certainly have my number Mr Mr I'm sure she would she would be willing to to to to accept your help and if anybody has the um drive to make sure that this is done correctly working for this Township right now it's Miss peuro and again it's I don't doubt it toally thank you El any other discussion on any resolutions in the consent agenda I'd like to have a motion to approval of the consent agenda I make a motion to approve the agenda second can't hear you I heard you a motions made by Council vice president OU and second by councilman quinlisk Council vice president yes councilman quinland yes councilman lman yes councilman Sosi I consent to a b and c and I guess I can't uh question D I'll vote Yes councilman lamb yes councilman nison yes council president Coleman yes moving to the approval of the Bills take a motion to move the bills we have a motion to move the Bills second Sor first motion councilwoman no tool motion it councilman quinis seconded it a motions made by Council vice president oul and seconded by councilman quinis Council vice president oul yes councilman Quin yes uh I have to abstain from all bills payable reming Vernick and to Tech elevator yes to the balance counc lman yes councilman seosi yes councilman lamb you abstained from all bills payable the bar of Lavalette and uh bill number 24- 00186 magistrate salaries yes to the balance Council yes council president Coleman yes elected officials comments hey we start off with Mr lamb thank you chair first off I want to thank Chief little deputy chief I see in the back and all the fine members of the toms Police Department my own personal opinion you are the finest Police Department of State New Jersey and perhaps the nation this was a difficult vote and it'll be a difficult vote on the next um meeting and I would willing to meet with anybody to talk about my feelings on on how the CSO program is important to this Administration to this Council and again just rehashing what I said briefly before in order to supplement the police department CSO division the right balance has to be struck with certain administrative titles list at the end I don't know and I believe that this ordinance can achieve that the CSO program arguably should have been worked on a decade ago or at least in this last Administration now I give the mayor credit for taking this on as fast as he is because he realizes there's a need we sit here every meeting every month with countless residents residents who call me that live on the beach that live in Green Island live off Fisher Boulevard living Guilford Park my neighborhood where they have to wait 15 20 minutes for an ambulance it's unacceptable so by again supplementing the CSO program by hiring eight police csos we're creating a situation we're going to make hopefully make protect our residents and protect them right now and we need that now I look forward to Chief little working with the mayor and administration in hiring the most qualified csos that we can and keeping an inside the police department bubble I've also asked the mayor to begin looking into the near future prior to this summer season to acquiring at least an ambulance more Emergency Equipment like the Luc and like the Lucas chest compression of device and more aeds at our Township properties in addition to more Personnel also though I told the mayor there's got to be some caution in the fact that if we do hit a certain Milestone with the CSO program to revisit these titles again and to make sure that there's a reallocation of those Personnel adequately that you need whether it's now in a few months or in the coming years I Know Chief that I'm here for the next two years and I won't let you down with that okay thank you no one more thing I just I just want to thank the mayor too for the weather event we had the other uh day I believe the Public Works was excellent they were out there I believe the mayor tomorrow I also want to thank the newba Scott terella for jumping on the garbage collection tomorrow I believe that if you have garbage coming tomorrow it'll be out an hour early that was on a website so make sure you get your cans out early um and again I I know the mayor is jumping all over tomorrow because we're having a major event tomorrow and I I look forward to uh again seeing how quickly he's uh getting his crews out there again I thank you for that that's all chair thank you thank you Mr Quinsy uh again I think I I understand the CSO program falls on under under the police department but I think we're we're we're making a grave mistake transferring uh our Poli or sacrificing our police officers for the CSO officers um I also want to point out a couple of um discrepancies and conversations I've had with the mayor and what I've heard here tonight uh last night at our agenda meeting uh the mayor told me that he had the support of both unions to cut these police officers and then yet yet today I have a letter from each one of those two unions saying to the contrary and then somebody else brought up the um subject of are we going to do anything with rental CSO or rental uh cosos and uh he said no just tonight and then Mr rodri pointed out that he had conversations that they are going to do something he's devaluing our town he's devaluing our Police Department we're going to be rolling more like uh uh Washington State uh when we have bad rental units and low income and nobody's checking slum Lords and nobody's checking our we're heading down the wrong path so I ask everybody to be vigilant in supporting the police department make the mayor do his research and his homework I'm all for finding more ambulances more ambulance drivers more more EMTs but find another way to do it cutting the police is not it keep our town strong keep our town safe and keep it beautiful it's what I ran on two years ago it's what I'm fighting for today thank [Applause] you Mr nson just like to uh say one thing I've never met a man who did more research than this man right here before he brings up an issue okay we're all for the police department we're not taking Patrol men away from what I understand these are two people who are retiring okay that's all I have to say thank you Mr Len I guess I start off by I've been uh living in Tom's River do Township originally since the 70s early' 7s uh I've worked through almost every basic community in town I've lived in three or four different communities uh I've raised all five of my children and now three of my grandchildren are all in Toms River schools all successful good people so the town itself is just the best that I could ever imagine it being it just is that way and I have 34s of my family the the younger members of our family are police officers in one place or another state troopers uh local police Min ballad it's it's just part of life is that we protect the police and I absolutely do intend to do that um I have a lot of uh a lot of time in this town and I tend to be here and do the best I can uh all of of us in this room have somebody and knows somebody who's been drug addicted or impacted by it and myself as well I have a younger brother who's been in jail for a long time and it's because of the drugs and I would do anything for anybody to help in that area for the drug addictions and the community for sure um I just I've known Dan for the better part of six or seven years uh came to me and asked me for my vote I said yes uh after talking to him 2 three hours in my room and uh came into the house and we sat and talked and I said well it's a wrong party but makes sense I liked what he said and I supported him he got elected then a couple months later a year later I guess uh he realized that he was in the wrong party and he he switched that doesn't make him a bad guy it just means that he got as he was going along he realized that he was in the wrong spot but I've always admired him he's always had more to say than anybody else and usually 95% of the time I agree with it that's why I'm here tonight I offered to take his seat for one year I have no intentions of running for the next term I'm here now as a friend to the community as well as to my friend Dan uh I will do everything I can the right way but it's going to be what I think is the right thing for the community I've been here a long time thank you thank you Mr Choi you picked a great night to start believe me it's not lost on me all right I feel for you okay um I don't even know where the hell to start you know it's just uh these last two weeks have uh been something to me uh uh and I do not like politics I want no career in this and and and it's ugly a all backstabbing deals behind the scenes it's nuts it's it's bad and I appreciate the phone calls this week and from everybody and I mentioned it in the past I don't like to get phone calls from people in town not the residents not my constituents but from other people I just don't just don't do business that way so I I want to talk here before the meetings uh concentrate on the agendas and and go from there and um I did want to say uh last week uh the uh I want to thank our professionals that went to the Ocean County uh Commissioners uh re uh I don't see Craig here but U almost uh every mayor in Ocean County Council people were at that meeting and they they talked uh um about a lot of things uh you know the 60% of uh Ocean County Land is undevelopable over 60% can't be touched its owned by townships the state the county and the FEDS so um and they talked about uh the you know 10 years from now 20 years from now 50 years from now the population the growth the building and everything and uh it was very interesting uh ocean county is uh including in our town but we was number one in recycling in the state and we have a i live at the public works department uh I'm there two three times a week with leaves branches uh and stuff you know for my house and uh the guys they do a wonderful job there everybody pling the snow it it's hard work and and um and I love our Police Department I can't tell you uh how many times they help me uh uh personally my kids and uh and a gigantic raccoon in my house at 3:30 in the morning that came down the chimney they were there in less than five minutes two police officers two cars so uh uh I'll just do my best I'll I'll try to work with everybody but um uh I want to State my opinion and how I feel and uh my ward is W for down here you know every ward has different problems has different needs than you know other Wards and Bley Beach and portley Beach if you want to succeed I'll help you okay you can make your own town and I'm saying in a kind way in a right way okay so um and and I'm afraid of the way the uh the town's going now and um so thank you God bless everybody God bless Tom [Applause] rer Mrs OU I really wasn't prepared to speak tonight but I am going to say something about Laura peuro as I've said before I've known her a number of years she did work out of the senior center a number of years ago and then she went to the county I have never met a person with so much compassion or empathy in my life when it comes to people I've never heard her use the word no or I can't or I won't she's always been right there and nine times out of 10 she prevails and she does that because she's dedicated she loves her work and she loved the senior center and I think that she will bring it back from the doldrums that has attacked it for the last several years and quite frankly the mismanagement she's already looked into different ways for funding and grants and whatnot and on top of all of that she's one of the most honest people that I have ever met and I think that she will be a shining emblem for this town when it comes to us seniors because we have become somewhat of the Forgotten people we have a government today that wishes us gone because we use all the resources they don't look to us for the lore the learning the experiences the Young people don't come to us anymore to ask for advice they don't look at our experiences but she does and there's a few other people like her and I think the town will do very well and Dan will make an excellent mayor and he will do that because he truly really cares and that's a commodity that's been missing thank you [Applause] I'll be very brief um my last job was principal in The Vocational School District specifically at Tom's River I had to walk that thin line sometimes between teachers parents students administrators but I always voted and took charge of what I thought in my heart was in the best interest of the largest group of people and I will continue to do that and I know it's hard because sometimes you become very unpopular but I'm going to vote from my heart I love Tom's River I've been here for 27 years and I want to see thas River prosper and I want to see everybody to be as happy as we can be I know there's going to be some dissension that's just public but I'm going to tell you right now I'm going to vote from the heart I don't own nobody owns me and I don't owe anybody and that's the way I'm going to run this Council okay at this time i' like to open the meeting for mayor I'm sorry oh I'm sorry mayor I didn't mean to slight you there president no no you know I'm still new to the job so just you're doing a great job you're doing a great job uh it was sort of Lost in the shuffle but I'd like to congratulate George lman he's been a steadfast advocate of the toms of taxpayer and a strong opponent of overdevelopment we first ran together back in 2019 he's a good man a proud father and a committed public servant the taxpayers of Tom's River now have another Advocate councilman lman on behalf of the taxpayers of Tom's River I want to thank you for volunteering to serve congratulations sir I'd also like to take a minute to talk about the um where we're at with the animal shelter and what we're doing uh the shelter is currently at full capacity with many animals uh being with us for over a year tonight we've begun the process of eliminating all the adoption fees at the shelter and if legally feasible I will sign an executive order tomorrow to stop collection immediately we are also working to shift the schedule around so we can be open during the evening until 7:00 on a few nights and opened on the weekends as well it's our goal to place every eligible animal in a loving home in addition to changing schedule and eliminating the fees I'm asking members of the press to please help us with the task by covering this story and featuring our animals if possible being cooped up in a cage for over a year is torturous for an animal um also I want to thank the council for repealing the co it caused people months of aggravation and thousands upon thousands of dollars uh I know councilman Sosi said he believed that people were taking advantage of the system uh I know there was an elderly woman she was in her 80s her husband had put in a small concrete patio for a picnic table and a barbecue grill and she wasn't able to sell her house without either removing it or getting an perment and she was crying and she was 80 years old there's no reason to do that to people uh people were failed for beetles in trees I mean these are not people taking advantage of the system these are people who had the system taking advantage of them so again thank you to the council for for repealing that own ordinance and uh I have nothing further for this evening thank you mayor again this time I like to open the uh meeting to any additional public comments uh sir I'll get to you a minute Mr Williams okay but let this gentlem go first good afternoon ladies and gentlemen good afternoon guys back there as well now my name is Carlos Amur I live in uh Winningham now today I got three different topic I want to start the first one is we do need more pedics at there more ENT why because I've been calling 9911 at least twice or five times a month when I be finding people outside the first responder is usually an officer and then and you know the Mt so I agree with the mayor we do need this so we can cover every angle now we do have to find a way to make a police officer happy as well we have the opportunity this year to make a lot of changes where we all win the real estate I agree with that I'm a builder I've been going through a lot of headaches I believe the Realtors should be hold accountable to get an inspection for their sellers make sure they hold their sellers or their buy accountable so like that there's no headaches in their home now my main concern is I live in winingham I see most of these guys I see the bad and the good in my community we do need the EMT but we need them because without them in my community where I live it's chaos I would love to sit down with you guys personally and bring a business where I will guarantee out of my paycheck that commission that you guys L for them I will put it back into their [Applause] pocket because guys like I said to you guys in the first meeting I love it that you guys don't get along why because that mean we're going to make the right choices and we're going to hold each and one a cannibal I like that but we got to find a way to make sure we all kind of agree in an angle and it's possible mayor I do believe that you got a heading team you got a great team right here so I know we can make this happen and in eight months we can come back and I guarantee you Chief you will be proud because we can make this happen guys I'm going to be going this in two weeks out in a tour around the United States and when I come back if I can sit down with you guys I promise you our revenues the taxes that you guys need for our school system for our olderly people for our females because I live in an area where I see most of our females got two jobs and nobody's taking care of the kids I was part of that system I'm that special ed so we have an opportunity where we can make our town great and fix every little headache let's stop blaming the previous administration let's just face all those headaches so we can make history as the best team that t ever had so please guys once again thank you for everything keep delegating because that's the only way we're going to get to the you know to the finish line but let's keep everything you know everyone happy especially those guys right there cuz you see I'm the troll maker they run after me but I'm here because they need our help as well thank you man once again Mr Williams thank you again council president Paul Williams Broad Street Toms there's uh there's some irony in Hell there's a lot of irony and some things that I'm about to say most of you heard me earlier when I told told you that I was a formerly incarcerated person who had spent 17 years in New Jersey state prisons uh several years in in jail had three armed robberies by the time I was 21 and a host of other property crimes predominantly um the irony is that I was I was moved mostly to come here tonight and to make some comment because of the ordinance that frankly was quite vague in fact it was absolutely vague this Council voted on an ordinance to amend and supplement an ordinance that will significantly impact our Police Department without any specification of what that Amendment and supplementation will be you have left the public to flail about what it means what it's going to be you have disabled the public from being able to come here and give you intelligent unemotional comment on the ordinance that you're going to look at again in a couple of weeks if you look carefully at the ordinance it specifies three sections that pertain to our police department but the only way you know what those three sections are is if you go and actually read the code had a conversation with mayor Rodrick recently and even he was confused how I knew what those codes were thought that I had some inside information no because in addition to being a formally incarcerated person with an extensive record I'm a badass pargal and I say that with my chest poked out I'm really good at what I do and so I read the code that pertains to those sections and so I understand that you're going to amend and supplement Provisions that pertain to positions within the police department one of them is for captains another one is for police officers and a third one is for the confid confidential uh media specialist now of all those positions there's only there's only one position for a social media um specialist I'll come back to that we're left to hear what we hear today about what you mean as far as captains we're left to hear what we hear today about what you mean as far as what you're going to do to the line officers the police officers we don't know this we can't speak on it intelligently I can only speak on what I hear and candidly that might be why this room is packed for public comment more than I've seen in quite a few years as much as I want to support our new mayor and the new council members this made it very challenging for me it put me in a very precarious and awkward and uncomfort occasionally uncomfortable position where me of all people feel the need to come here and speak speak on behalf of a police department I'm very objective and I speak truth to power with no equivocations and sometimes that includes police departments I'm very much in support of our constitution I want myself and other civilians to be left alone unless there's a real need for us to be interfered with particularly from a law enforcement perspective so I'm no cheerleader for any Police Department no law enforcement agency I am not a cheerleader but for me I tell you that this ordinance concerns me it concerns me and I hope that we have more conversations and I hope to Enlighten some of our new council members I've had some conversations with our mayor but I hope to have some conversations with our new council members that you know who I am and where I'm coming from and what my concerns are as you go into the next council meeting to address that ordinance [Applause] yes ma'am come forward please Dana T molan messenger Street Tom's River I'm here tonight in regards to the cuts mayor intends to make regarding our Police Department on January 1st during the reorganization meeting mayor project stated and I quote our residents want Safe Streets good schools and low taxes so let's go right to the safe the safe streets that he spoke of our Township has been in the midst of rising car thefts and break-ins now for approximately a year on January 1st he also stated that he was going to rid the township of certain jobs he felt were not necessary and stated that this would pertain to confidential employees not Rank and file yet here we are mayor Roger looking to decimate was the word I was told to use decimate our Police Department he is making changes not to do what's right for the best of the township and the resident some of those who voted for this Republican mayor but to actually hand jobs to friends and acquaintances so ultimately he is not ridding the township of confidential employees but instead providing himself with his own he wants you to believe that the men and women summon in the in the administrative positions especially are not as well educated as he is and doesn't deserve their pay I'm not sure if the mayor is aware but for an officer to rise up the rank and filed they spent not only countless hours studying for mandatory tests needed to be promoted but they also continue their college education earning master's degrees and such to be fair he also believes our teachers make too much money and some of them also have multiple degrees he's looking to cast to cost people their livelihoods but for six years on the council and working as a public school teacher he's collected health benefits paid for by the residents of Tom's River so back to our police Department a town the size of Tom's River as stated earlier according to studies going back as far as the early 2000s needs more officers this mayor is not only looking to decrease the amount of officers but he'd also like to implement a hiring free he's voted no repeatedly on the police budgets yet he has assured the residents of the Barrier island that they would get more First Responders but how is that possible with less officers and less working equipment so I say this to the council are the mayor's person vendettas worth not the worth not only the loss of well-educated well-trained police officers but more importantly the safety of the residents of this ever growing town and its growing crime rate I know some of you have negative feelings toward the police so M UL I'm going to State this to you are you willing to jeopardize the safety of your neighbors by having less police are you even listening defund the police was a democratic war cry just three years ago so it seems very interesting to me and I'm sure to many other Republicans that a Republican mayor is doing just that defunding the [Applause] police right so anybody else from the community yes sir came from cing Bill brilliant 79 Holly Tree Lane first a request to the mayor and maybe to Mr mcgucken also so the other night there was a meeting BASF put on it was a virtual meeting relative to what is going to happen on the siag gagi place property the second meeting is February 28th which coincides with a council meeting um I had put a request in that they changed that date it's an inperson meeting at High School North it'd be great if we could have that meeting changed so that our public officials can make it as well as the public so if we can do that that'd be awesome we we've had this discussion with Miss forsberg great thanks okay um couple others so um when you uh commented before mayor uh about this ordinance relative to the police department you had made a comment about two captains retiring and about $800,000 which will cover the cost of the CSO um but again as Mr Williams pointed out and also reading through the uh code there are two other um types of police officers that are in that ordinance tonight so you had said that the cost will be covered by the $800,000 of attrition is there more loss at the police department just to be clear there is no loss at the police department the csos are community service officers they're part of the police department so to be clear we're having retirements at the police department and we're funding more ambulance drivers who work for the police department they're boots on the ground they're people that save lives right now you have people waiting very long time to get Emergency Medical Services sometimes 30 minutes we've had a number of very scary incidents so this is not defunding the police this is the retirement of two senior officers they're not making they're not making calls they're not coming to your house if there's a situation the other folks that we're going to be bringing on are going to come to people's homes when they're having a heart attack or they believe that their spouse is undergoing a stroke or someone is choking these are people that we need we're we're we're tied we have a $3.5 million budgetary shortfall good okay it's good you think it's good to have a three and a halfon understood oh okay I'm sorry $3.5 million budgetary shortfall it will cost approximately a million or maybe a little more to put an ambulance on 24 hours a day 7 days a week uh I do not believe that a public information officer is uh more important either than ambulance drivers so that's part of this we have a public information officer here at the township uh we could obviously publish those two or three uh Public Relation press releases out of the township that person is going to work in conjunction with the Department to do that uh so that's not needed uh I was told that there was a retirement by the president of the PBA and that there's another position that he would like to see filled and I agreed to fill that position once it is through the process so I had conversations with the PBA and with the fop these two letters were a surprise brought on today I had those conversations long in advance of this meeting I was led to believe that this would be all right uh so but all of a sudden popping a letter on the so that is where we are with this and if I have to make a choice between rehiring or adding another $250,000 position and health insurance and a $90,000 payment toward the pension for each of these employees $400 ,000 or putting 8 EMTs on the street to answer calls when people are um dying frankly uh I think the choice is pretty clear making those decisions it's a it's a tough decision to make but in this circumstance it's the necessary decision to make the people elected to me to make these tough decisions again they're not easy but I'm always going to put what's the best interest of the public first and that and and that's all that I have to say about that sir you can do both you can save our police department and get csos just find a way to do it without killing the other so you you just to be clear councilman quinas councilman quinas just to be clear the $3.5 million shortfall you haven't even presented a budget yet the $3.5 million shortfall is equivalent to 4% the addition of the csos would be equivalent to a 5% taxing increase sir are you going to vote to raise taxes 5% is that what you're asking me to do not at all but you haven't presented a budget yet I just told you what the shortfall was so can I have some you had not presented a budget actually we should allow the the resident to to continue with their comments I appreciate this this is great and so it goes back to you kind of circled back around to the $880,000 $800,000 but during the the answer you gave that you're eliminating other positions in the police department and so in 18 days what you said people have told you to cut the police department that is what you're hearing you just said you've heard the people tell you this is adding I just told you we're adding eight people to the police department adding eight to replace the retirements there will be eight new people within the police department only two people are leaving uh well the other person is not an officer no there's more and you look at I don't want to go back and forth let's just give me give me my moment I appreciate that goad finish yep and I think that you know you're not being 100% honest you're basically you're saying you're speaking out of both sides I know I'm already over my time I had something else I wanted to say but you're speaking out of both sides of your mouth I think this is something again that needs to be looked that need to be studied you have two new letters tonight that basically say no we don't agree okay I don't know why 18 days we feel like we have to do the world's work I mean I know God did his work in six days and rested in seven but you're no God and it's definitely not going to happen why why do we have to go so fast I mean I've listened tonight to the council and I really again and I've said this to you in an email you are my mayor this is my Council this is my town okay and I really hope that at the end of the day we all can work together and we all can do what's in the best interest of the township of Tom's River because otherwise it ain't going to work so I heard you tonight and a lot of people on the council said you know I hear what you're saying I think we should do this but right now I vote Yes so I vote no well 18 days we are making dramatic changes here cuz it's a mess the Township's a mess I will tell you I've lived in this town since I've lived in this town over 35 years and I'll tell you there is no better place in the state of New Jersey to live it is not yes we've had we have people you come to the last meeting we have people coming saying there's no ambulances going to their houses um excuse me just a minute Mr Williams just a minute Mr Williams excuse me excuse me sir sir I think you you've made your point I think you've been very clear I think everybody understands I'd like to move on and see if there's anybody else that comments to be fair to the rest of the people okay I get any additional time because all my time was taken sir you've made you've made your point and I think we got it loud and clear I remember the first meeting I'm allowed to come back up again right you've already been back up no that was a different topic that was different time so thank you very much Mr President all right woman in the ham the When anybody is interrupting a just call somebody just call somebody a question um who else wanted to speak I'm sorry I saw somebody else wanted to speak yes please come forward Sor excuse [Music] me sir please enough excuse me Mr Williams and you have to give other people a chance to speak all right you've had two shots so far this gentleman has had none give him a chance thank you sir glad Sir Mr Mayor councel my name is Ron sarini I'm the president of the Fraternal Order of Police Lodge 156 I represent 32 supervisors in the town can you hear me sorry I represent the 32 police officers in the Tomer Police Department I all always have and will continue to support the community service officers in our Police Department they're an important function that we need every day I do agree with that but I do believe that we should consider other ways of funding that program without the expense of losing an officer or a supervisor leader in the toms of a police department in a day and age where the liability on the officers that go out there every day is never higher do we really want to take take away from the supervisors and the leaders that oversee these officers every day especially when you consider a department our size and you look around at the municipalities of comparative sizes we are not an overstaffed Police Department excuse me I think you would consider us understand when it comes to our csos they are EMT certified some of them are paramedics but they're not police officers yes they are part of our family I would I would say that every day and I'll I'll repeat that they are part of our family but they are not the officers that answer calls they're not the officers that wear the vest every day and answer the every day those calls that come in by the hundreds when all said and done all I'm asking you is to consider funding that program in another way thank you for your [Applause] time I think I saw somebody over here that wanted to speak is that correct no okay ma'am come right ahead deer Martin 1921 Ocean Avenue orty Beach I don't even know where to start first of all gentlemen I want to tell you that I am one of your biggest supporters Chief little knows Chief Mard used to call me they used to say I was a fan club president I have utmost respect for you but I also in the 25 years I've lived in ortley Beach Mr chosi trust me you would never get elected in ortley Beach I've had two ambulance calls at my house that took over a half hour and that's when we had a first aid Squad superstorm Sandy took our first skirt they squat away I don't know if everybody in the room is aware that just as Mr lamb said the Barrier Island Tom's River portion does not have an ambulance Squad not one single ambulance except in the summer we were finally fought for from 7 in the morning till 7 at night so we have to plan our heart attacks and our Strokes Mr quinic you commented about trior first state Squad Justin's been at our meetings Chief Litt had been at our meetings Lieutenant Ponsky has been at our meetings every first day Squad is short handed triau cannot handle us we have asked them if you had spoken to Mr lamb or chief little or Lieutenant Ponsky you would know that Trio does not want us they can't help us everybody in this room if your grandmother mother father sister brother baby whatever needed ambulance would you want to wait a half hour I don't think any of you can say yes I don't know how to handle the difference in the money but it needs to happen along with it something that hasn't been discussed tonight at all what are we going to do about our beaches since I've been told today the Army Corps does not plan on coming until after next fall I don't know have any of you been over to the beach I live right across the street I can't get on beach most of ort Le cannot get on the entrances so that's a whole another big lump of money but I really hope everybody just works together tries their best Mr Choi I'm just really upset about that comment about ortley Beach I'm really upset no I don't know what your ward is I don't care where your ward is we pay some of the highest taxes 7.38% of the municipal tax comes from ortley Beach thank you and I just spoke to representative Smith's office recently uh actually today because they commented to me about the situation with the beach because I've been in contact I mentioned him that over the last assessment I went up $3,000 on a condo from8 over 8,000 to over 11,000 he cannot understand that he's supposedly has his staff looking into what happened with the assessment there's people in ortley Beach paying over $30,000 taxes so I think we should at least have the ability to have an ambulance nobody arance thank you Council Mr chosi I've been to ortley beach I've seen that that damages from all these storms so far this winter and uh and hopefully you know there's going to be no more but um the way I see this Council now I was trying to to help you guys over there that you know I want to help you and you got my support if you want to hook up with Lavalette or it been talked a lot of people because you've been unhappy with us for over 2 years and rightly so and rightly so ma'am let let Mr chosi finish and then if you want to come back up you can answer Dave what are you proposing I I didn't get that what you say he's proposing succession oh supporting succession where 1 1% of the town's population is paying you're saying 10% that's just ortley Beach the beaches are paying probably 25 to 30% of the taxes of the community and and you're proposing that we let them go and or better yet that we just tell them to go why would we let they want to stay I think they want to stay not only that it's it's public it's public comment I think we should all right let's go on let's go back to the public comment portion of this meeting please I saw another hand I'm sorry yes sir come ready forward good evening my name is Bill Hutton I live at three Pearl Drive in Tom's River I first want to start off congratulations Robert um with that being said members of council I do have some serious questions as far as the movement in the police department the first and foremost is you are adding eight CSO program csos correct that is a wonderful wonderful thing for the community however they are not answering calls for emergency services other than first aid call you are aware that that's what you're looking at these eight spots are taking patrolman away from the streets councilman land as a sergeant lavet you're aware of the amount of paperwork that goes along with everything goes on in police you're aware of the different forms of state now these positions that you're cutting these people have gone through all these processes and they're the ones that are teaching the younger generation future police officers how to handle those situation so I guess my question really comes down to is we're going to add our csos which again they're amazing people they do amazing things and they save lives but what are we looking at as far as real cuts to the police department can we get an answer with that well not on the patrol level on the administrative level none my discussion with the mayor was and I to thank Jim quinis he sent me over the efficiency study and you should look at it from 2021 in fact Jim if you have a copy maybe we can start you know sending it around you should look at it because it talks about 2002 that your Staffing levels back then should have been 173 back then yes so we need more boots on the ground and the mayor promised me he's promised us on councel that we got to work on that and this is a start he's only been let me finish he been in office for 2 weeks about 15 16 days here this is a big step now I know it does come with a sacrifice but we've looked at it and I believe that the the mayor spent time with Chief little and I think that we are experiencing an issue with no ambulances especially on the Barrier Island I know for right now but let me finish my issue is not with the no I know that but it's about Patrol my question is is when there is a serious emergency in town the ambulance is going to respond second right all right you don't have children yet I do all right if my 14-year-old is not breathing I damn well want one of these guys that are back here no doubt flying to my house getting there first you know my proposal was now I sure hope that they come with everything and they have they've been to several houses in this community I told now the first ones there are the police officers and you know that you can I can I jump in yes the yes the police officers the guys the boots on the ground the officers the patrolman the captain's not coming the captain's not coming to your house in that situation he's not on patrol he's in management and personally at this point in time I think that Chief little and one of the captains is sufficient to supervise six lieutenants that would be one supervisor per two lieutenants these captains are $240,000 a year their pension payments are $90,000 and their health insurance is another 25 we all support the police we all want more police on the streets so do it we also need ambulance drivers it is a more desperate need right now it is not an easy decision we are not hurting an individual police officer these folks are these folks are we're respectfully these folks are retiring sir you've said the same point over and over but you asked the question my question is now are you going to keep more police officers and you keep circling back to we're going to put community service officers we did not lay off a single police officer one person is retiring and based on my conversation with the PBA shortly we will be hiring another one okay okay so we had that conversation I had the conversation too with Ron as well I understand that there's an outcry of folks in the fop that that I I get it there are people who want to be able to be promot Ed I understand that but the promotions are not more important than having ambulance drivers decisions are tough sometimes again it's a $3.5 million shortfall these eight csos will cost somewhere between $800,000 to a million dollar and we need them now if we have more money in the future I'd love to put more police on the ground and it will be a priority right now the priority is the ambulance drivers so your plan I want to make sure I'm clear is to replace police officers with no we will add more police officers when we have money right now we have no money and we need another ambulance this is not that difficult this is not that difficult of a decision for me to make I do recognize that people want to be promoted but even the lieutenants are at $225,000 a year what when is enough enough right now yes we could use more police on the ground but we really need ambulance drivers people are waiting 30 minutes this is a life or death thing if we sat down and we looked at it and we really investigated how many people do you think we might find that passed because an ambulance didn't get there on time I mean I very few really I would say yes how would we how would we know that because Mr Rodrick I'm a first responder I worked these shifts for years you're you're you're um I am a police officer in Tom as well you're a patrolman yes sir awesome thank you for your service have done CPR on numerous peoplek as all of these other men and women women behind me and the issue is yes do we need csos absolutely they are more highly trained than I am but the ultimate question is the community itself needs the police officers more than they need the csos because I can do CPR for 10 minutes these gent these gentlemen can do CPR for 10 and 20 minutes you're talking about a Lucas device that will do the CPR for you while I use all that's fantastic and we applaud all your efforts and appreciate everything that each of you guys do all right there's a police officer who's retiring there's another situation that's going on that will result in US hiring another officer there won't be any change in the number of police officers right now that are on the ground and when we have money and can invest in more First Responders more police we would do so right now the priority is getting more ambulances and I'm I'm sorry that it'll impact some folks promotions uh I'm sorry that it may impact the number of people that a supervisor has to supervise but at the end of the day what we're asking is the chief and the deputy chief to supervise six lieutenants that would be about three people each so this is not like we're asking you to supervise 20 or 30 we're asking the chief and the deputy chief to supervise six people I think that they are very capable of doing that and I really believe that we need ambulance ders and thank you very much for all your service and like I said this is not an easy decision unfortunately Mr may I I respectfully disagree but again thank you for your time in ma'am the other may never had a chance CL orley Beach is this will be very quick with respect to the amount of money that goes from portley Beach to Tom's River in the past everybody kept saying oh we give 25% we give 25% last year I the um head of the council the director of Public Works and the tax assessor got on a three-way conference call with me or four-way and um sat down and discussed it ortley gives about 8% to Tom's River now it may not sound like a lot but if you drop 8% from Tom's Rivers roles if you think you have problems now you're going to have a lot more later on ma'am 64 could you say that again a little louder please Kimbell 64 beus Le Toms River New Jersey I'm going to keep this brief it's my bedtime so hopefully it makes sense um I just want to close um in reference to the MC CUO the reason that we became so vocal including myself I was one of the first or actually my client was I don't care where I sell houses I could sell them anywhere I love Toms River I live in Toms River and I do like to sell houses in Toms River but my client was I think the third inspection and it was very problematic when it first rolled out as admitted by the former Administration and it cost him like $155,000 he had lived here for 30 years put his kids through the school system very loyal to the town loved the town he unfortunately had to pay the price that was done um for something that was done 30 years prior to his home ownership that's why we became so vcal now I myself you know realtors that are seasoned we do check rope and permits Lacy Township you do have to have a letter of no interest maybe you could do that showing that there are no open permits perfect see I know to check for that but I do know a lot of people don't I don't go into a house without a home inspector it's four five $600 they're licensed they're insured continuing education no conflicts of interest they're afraid of getting sued so everything oh the heat looks okay but refer to a licensed heat person oh the the hot water heater looks okay but refer to a licensed uh plumber you know so um the only time that I don't do that is if it's an investor so um you know hopefully uh going forward I just wanted to get that out there and clear the air I mean I'm sure you're not personally trying to pick people's pockets but if you and I and I understand you know people do illegal things I go into a listing in ortley beach if I see that there's a bathroom below blood I say Hey listen get rid of this before we list the house this isn't legal and you know you take it from there during attorney review attorneys like like Mr lamb they ask have there been permits for all work done I'm smart enough to know if I see a finished basement or I see a converted garage hey when we do the op request let's make sure there rep permit's full I mean it's just a matter of hiring the right person admittedly the gentleman in the red shirt who left earlier lives in ortley and he said um you know my neighbor he threw a bathroom in oh the neighbor's words as soon as I have my co then I'm going to get the bathroom the neighbor who did the third floor converted room as soon as I have the co I'm going to convert the room so getting this Co I understand those are problematic things but having this mccu I wasn't going to save that you could close on a house tomorrow and we don't know what people are doing in their basement after the fact once the co is issued so you have to come up with some other kind of remedy to um get rid of that like The Other Woman mentioned earlier now I don't know because I don't P town on people I work a lot and I mind my business but apparently I guess if you call to see something say something you have to say your name so I would understand that that would prohibit people from wanting to call the neighbor with the illegal third room or legal basement or whatever the case so maybe look into getting rid of that that's it have a good night yes ma'am hi my name is Jillian missina op Court Tom Sher um do any of you know who I am thank you I am the media relations specialist at the Tom police department and some of my tasks throughout the day well first of all I work about 60 hours a week I get paid for 40 but I love my job so much that it's worth it to me I have spent yesterday was my seveny year anniversary with the police department um I am so blessed to highlight the things every day that these men and women from our officers to our administrators to our employees civilian csos every single member of our department is a family and I am so blessed and lucky to have theob job to communicate that to our Township I have spent seven years building relationships with this community getting information to this community building great networking with this community I don't know if you're aware but um and I apologize I'm going to talk directly to Mr Mayor but I have helped raise over $600,000 along with the foundation and the PBA for our Police Department so that you don't have to find that money for things [Applause] I'm proud of [Applause] that I've paid for my salary quite a few times sir um but what I will say is that relationships with the community are important and every single person in this Police Department deserves the opport Unity to have those relationships for their safety and for your safety because the better the relationships that we have with the township and with the community the safer they are and the safer you are and when we have had incidents our residents have had our back because of this and if you would like to take two captains away I challenge you to tell me what their daily jobs are what their tasks are how many people they supervise and what they do because Miss Al you said something earlier that really resonated with me and I thought about it and I sat back there and I said wow she's right you said that this young woman listens to the older community and the experience that they have to offer if you take two captains away who have the experience and the knowledge and the wisdom to give to our young officers who are you serving I have worked to get grants I don't know if any of you are aware but there are tons and tons of community policing and policing grants so I urge you before two weeks when you have the second reading I urge every one of you to look up the amount of Grants you have a shortfall don't hurt the csos they are amazing and they are important and they are part of our family but don't hurt the captains and the new highes find a grant and find the money because it's out there you have a $3 million shortfall let's see how much money you can fill that in with grants take a break there's no reason to rush this there's no reason to rush this I'm begging you to take a minute and look at all that we have done we have had other police departments come to ours and model our agency and RTO which is a table of organization and they do it after us because we are so efficient in the time that I'm there when we do have people retire that the positions excuse me can be civilianized they are we are so responsible read that efficiency study just read it find out what we do and in that study are some of my tasks you'll see that I'm underpaid and I don't care because I love it I love this town I will do anything for it and you can get rid of my position Mr rodri but you can't get rid of me because I love this [Applause] department [Applause] okay is there anyone else who would wish to speak sir yeah normally don't make a habit of coming up during public time to speak can you say your name and address please I'm sorry Joe Coco 161 Walnut Creek Lane Toms River and Silverton and as I said I usually don't make a habit of coming up during the public time I leave it for for the residents but uh A lot's been said tonight a lot of things have come up a lot of good things have come up on you know on all ends and um I've been in this town since 1965 10 years old I moved here since that time I've been involved in every part of 33 Washington Street every part of something that goes on Town whether it's Recreation Scouts Police Department EMS I'm an EMT I stood here at this very mic well maybe not the same mic but 25 years ago and the reason I was here 25 years ago was because at that time we had six volunteer squads in this town and every time you turned around you saw an ambulance going back and forth from every one of those squads you all can see what happened within that that 25 years almost 25 years we don't have that so yes there is a definite need and and and again the other thing is some other towns will come in from Mutual aid but you know what it's to another Town's advantage to come in here because they're making money on our residents okay or our residents insurance companies they get paid it's not a lot of volunteer squads still out we still have some hanging on to to help us out a little bit so that that need is there I've seen the csos be like yo-yos back and forth okay at one time they they were under the police Department then they they went under Administration and I think back to the police they're in the right spot they're in the right spot and they are in the right spot for you know command and control and and what they're doing I understand what the mayor is is doing I've you know had some time to talk to him again I don't say I agree with the mayor or disagree or or anything else okay but those men and women standing back here and it was hard to come up here after Jillian believe me but again those men out and women out there should seen them during Sandy well I had damages during Sandy at the same time I was working OEM so I had to work with every one of them but again that is all good what I do want to say as far as the csos and is you know an area maybe I can help you with or not okay the csos we could be that town making the money you know once you know we take a good hard look at the number we have on the road what the expenses are at that some point that money could be you know could come here into this town and obviously go into the police department because it's under the police department so you know that that can be done um you know and I I know mayor you you do ask questions you know so I know you've you've asked a lot of different people about that there's a lot out there there were some people last year sitting right up here that could have done Ju Just that and they didn't so you know again think about that like I said if we have to have other people come in Tri burough again being one of them Tri burough is is a paid Squad now for the most part and that's you know but they also have their hands full on the beach in the summertime so I am all for a beach you know squad on the beach um again that's it the other thing where I want to help you for and I'd like to be on this task force all right I I was proud I I retired from the from the US government from you know US Army as a civilian at Fort Mammoth I was a facility engineer so I was in and out of all kind of buildings and houses and and what have you but when I came got done I put eight and a half here years in here at code enforcement and I was proud of that eight and a half years and I I retired with mixed emotions that's how this came about my back was not you know not ready to continue with that but I'm I'm still here and I'm now I serve on served on the um disabilities committee so what I'm trying to say is there's a lot of good that's being done by people in in this in this town around and you know I do want to say that that whole group behind me wait way in the back there they they they are the best they are the boots in the ground and that they came through last year when we had nobody almost demand to staff those ambulances and they they they came through so we we did have officers on those ambulances last year we had dispatchers on those ambulances do I get do I get another minute okay do you have some main point you want to State sir okay yes my main point basically is what I'm saying I would like to offer my services at no cost and my experience here in the township at Toms River to help with that risk management and to help and see what can be done as far as getting EMTs out here at the same time being able to keep monies in that in the police department and working with what what we can so that that's that's my offer to you thank you very [Applause] much now I know it's a public meeting I know it's on the air oh my God but anybody tells my wife just don't tell her all right thank you again I'm going to have to cut you off thank you I'm cut all right thank you everybody has to cut me off anybody knows me thank you thank you anyone else yes sir Jason Kowski uh Fountain Drive theol EST States President Tom ever since 1981 became an EMT in 1991 sir can you talk more direct than microphone so people can hear you thank you became an EMT in 1991 and rode with Toms over first aid Squad Mr Ranken was on the council at that point in time um in 1999 I became a nationally registered EMT p as well as a New Jersey uh micp um and I uh will say in my time served as a first responder ambulance driver is a derogatory to term and I no nobody's fault to know that but uh highly insulting to call a certified EMT and ambulance driver um CSO anything other than that um in my time the biggest complaint was always our numbers it's always there's never enough there's never enough EMTs it's a loser every ambulance company has gone under alert monok the life Paramedic program because there's no money to be made in it so yes the town should 100% put on EMTs but I keep hearing from the council that there was great research done in this and I would like to know what governing agency did you to use to determine and again I'm not expecting you tonight it's not a gotcha question to determine how many ambulance you need per 100,000 do do we use uh a governing agency actually I think I think what the folks on Council were referencing was a study commissioned by uh mayor Hill it was an efficiency study uh it did not really pertain to the number of ambulances we would need I simply feel and members of council and members of the public feel that we need more ambulances also I know the folks that are members of the CSO program talk about how they need more drivers that they're just being pulled in all different directions um so there is no actual study that says the wh the World Health Organization which I think is a garbage organization but unfortunately they have statistics for that do do we look that up and does anyone know on the council again you can see as a citizen from so you're saying we may need more than eight no it's one per 100,000 from the who which I disagree with it's a garbage organization and I told you as an EMT I say we need more but but that's the governing so if we meet one ambulance per 100,000 residents we've met the responsibility there do we know what the FBI uh number is per 1,000 residents for police officers again as as a resident and the taxpayer in the town that that's frustrating to me that nobody knows that it's 2.4 per 1,000 now that's over 100,000 so you can say well Toms over is less and that would fall into um 17 per 10,000 which would come out to that 170,000 Mark so by the organizations that do it now granted we're doing FBI which I'll go off on them too and tell you what a garbage organization that is but those are the statistics we have to deal with the FBI puts out numbers the World Health Organization puts out numbers as an EMT put on 20 more that that would be great I I I I 100% support that but as as far as the agencies that monitor this we meet the standard right now for the only the only thing that I would like to we are grossly under on the police side and and and that's it's a problem we can't the FBI says we're under the World Health Organization says we're over thank you for your time today [Applause] sir uh again I would just like to reiterate if it's all right with council president that uh these are Captain's positions these folks are retiring already it would leave the chief and one Captain supervising six lieutenants that would be one supervisor per three employees we do need the EMTs our entire population it's very heavy senior citizen we have more retirement communities than any other Township us and brick and they need the services he thank you anyone else Mr Williams try to make it brief because uh it's getting late thank you thank you council president again Paul Williams Broad Street Tom R I just wanted to be clear clear again about um something that I had said earlier about the about the way that the ordinance is written the ordinance as it's written that you all voted to approve and go on to the second reading does not specify what uh amendments what changes are going to be into that into that and I pointed out to you that according to the code the sections referenced in there pertain to the positions for captain and according to code the times of a municipal code there are three captain of police and Deputy police chief a total of three then there is G police officers 113 113 positions for police officers and then the last one was R confidential media Rel ation specialist there's one and the point that I want to make in bringing this to your attention very clearly is that the ordinance that you voted on tonight particularly with regard to the captain and the police officers it does not specify how you are going to amend the code that I just read to you in other words everyone of these brave men and women in the back of the Toms River Township Police Department any one of them any number could potentially be on the chopping block the only assurances what what we have is lip service tonight about what may or may not and is only the constant conversation about the captains no conversations about these men and women in the back these line officers the ones who actually respond to incidences first okay none of it none of it in the ordinance that you approved this evening was specific and for that reason you may have you may have opened a Pandora's Box that I don't believe that any of particularly the new council members anticipated because it wasn't specific and council president I must remind you that the agenda is put together by you sir the agenda is your responsibility as the council president and if you don't know about it next time it comes up double check double check because it's on you that people are going to talk about when there's something on the agenda that don't smell right I only offer that as a suggestion sir last thing last thing and I'll be very very brief last thing my time in prison was extensive but while there I was a prisoner Advocate I was the one who spoke up for prisoners who were facing disciplinary and in that regard I learned the the organizational chart I knew whose responsibility was what Mr William I'm going to interrupt because right now you're going off on a bit of a tangent and I respect what you're saying but you are going up from the tangent and I don't think that what you're going to tell us right now has any direct impact on what we're doing here tonight so I would like you to please end a conversation these people have been very patient they've listened to you a couple of times please let's conclude this so people can get home and get some rest please just two sentences number one I have full faith and confidence in our chief and there's no way Phil Stilton the municipal public information officer is going to be able to do what this person does Jillian MSA he can't do what she has done in the years that she's been there I ask you to take that in [Applause] consideration okay anybody else yes sir mayor rodri uh excuse me your name and uh address please Township Council uh my name is Ted Maloney I live at 1442 Sequoya Circle um throughout the night we've had several conversations about replacing the police and whether or not this was a defund the police matter or if we're just not replacing two captains so the way it works is usually there's a trickle down effect when you have retirements if you have one retirement and you don't replace that officer then you're essentially losing a patrol officer because everybody goes up one notch so you take an off someone who's unemployed you bring them on patrol officer makes Sergeant Sergeant makes lieutenant and so on now I know of three retirements coming up in our police department and mayor rodick I do know I overheard you say that you were short of chief that you're going to replace one of the retiring officers with a patrol officer correct the conversation I was discussing that I mentioned had to do with the PBA president and for reasons that are legal and um confidential I can't really elaborate on when we'll be hiring the next police officer but it's it's on Deck um as far as the captains I I do disagree that we're taking someone off the street uh by eliminating the position by attrition no one moves up and therefore the officers stay on the street when they move up if you don't replace them at the bottom then you lose an officer on the street but if someone retires a captain and again I just want to repeat uh in reference to Mr Williams comments that I do think the chief does an excellent job so does the deputy chief and I have the full confidence that the two of them are capable of supervising six lieutenants that would be three each um but I disagree with the premise that eliminating Captain eliminates an officer it's it's completely the opposite if you didn't backfill an officer and you left the captain you'd be sure to police officer but but people from the PBA don't move to the fop unless a sergeant position opens eliminating the captain's position leaves those positions on the table um those sergeants and lieutenants do most of the management and most of the work um and I'm not saying the captains don't but like I said I do believe in this circumstance we uh owe it to the people to be able to provide Emergency Medical Services and we have to do it with the monies that we have we're facing a budgetary shortfall I'll repeat again I support the police I support everything that they do I do not believe that this takes an officer off the street I believe it's the opposite again there's the elimination of two management positions but again having four people supervise six people is unheard of and in this situation waiting 30 minutes for an ambulance is also unheard of respectfully yes sir I completely agree with that and that is that should never happen and there's not a police officer in this room or in my building or in I probably would say any agency in America that does not stand behind csos and EMTs since you've brought that up though you're adding eight more employees to the police department they're not police officers but the CSO program falls directly under the police department yes okay so that's eight more people that need to be supervised they're supervised by a civilian right now I'm sure you're aware of that you're there yes I am so they're they're not supervised by a captain they supervised by a civilian that that civilian supervisor is supervised by a police officer okay but he's not supervised he's not supervised by a captain the table of organization the table of organization currently has three captains again at 242,000 supervising six lieutenants and I didn't really want to get into all these details but if the public is aware of that I I I don't think they'll be I think they will support what I'm doing and I I wish that you guys would as well it's really a matter of public safety like I said the council and myself we really appreciate everything that you guys do it's a tough choice we want you to be able to be promoted we want you to get paid well you are paid well we want to continue to pay you well in this situation we need EMTs and we need them yesterday so uh I'm sorry that some folks might not get promoted as a result of this but I do not believe we will be failing in terms of supervising because I have full faith and confidence that the captain and the deputy chief and and you could extend your time uh if it's up it's up to the council president but I'm sure he will I believe that the chief and the deputy chief are perfectly capable of supervising six men uh and again that that's my position but I this does not take a cop off the street and when we we have the finances and the town is back to a balanced budget we will look to increase the number of officers on the ground right now this comes first sir can I have another minute yes sir you could have you could have five thank you sir I I appreciate how cordial you're being um the only thing I must warn is there is something in management called span of control okay we are we have as of right now I believe our to is 162 but however we do have about 30 35 class 3 police officers we have about another 20 class one and two officers we have Park security officers now we have what's becoming an even larger CSO program those captains do not only supervise our lieutenants they are in charge of budgeting they're in charge of our finances are purchasing they're what makes the world go around they really are and I I do think obviously Patrol comes first but once you take away the spanic control and you add more responsibilities to everyone it becomes an enormous liability and that's when you get yourself into quite a quiet mire and and you're right there is something called span of control and the federal government recommends 5:1 5:1 and and it would work through the pyramid at 5:1 based on their recommendation and we're we're about 3 to one through the whole department the sergeants of the most overworked yes they are 5 to one and uh frankly we could probably use more sergeants and more officers on the ground right now we have a desperate need for these EMTs this is the way we can pay for it again I'm very sorry that some folks might not get a promotion um so I I don't mean to cut you off no it's okay I I'm we're having a conversation it's fine it's not it's not about a promotion what my fear is as a lifelong Township resident who who's raising his family here my fear is that this is a slippery slope there's always going to be something we need money for and the public safety budget in every municipality across the country is the largest it's easy to pull from it oh we don't need this because we can just reallocate it over here all right and you're basically going to start robbing Peter to pay Paul but it's Public Safety we're going from one area of Public Safety to another it stays within the police department and it brings in eight people eight people people who who are in contact with the public rescuing them right so this is a tough decision but I'll tell you what I want just jump into I was shocked by that efficiency study where in 2002 we should have had 173 now Chief little wasn't the chief at that time I'm shocked that during 2002 through arguably Sandy that nothing was done about that nothing was done let me finish nothing was done about that I'm really concerned I told the mayor that while this is concerning it's a tough It's a tough cross to bear I also suggested about a plan talking to the unions about having officers have to incentivize because it's important it's a lot of work to get that EMT certification but make sure if these officers want to go out and do it you let them cover these ambul and shifts and for you know again compens comp sorry overtime or or overtime but any way to cover because it has to be covered and we need more we need more coverage and that's how I feel about it and and I did make that offer to the PBA the fop and the chief of police I offered to compensate police officers with overtime during their regular shift maybe people in management people that were let's say lieutenants or sergeants or captains that if they had their EMT I'd be willing to pay them overtime during their regular shift to just hop on an em to Just sh hop on an ambulance and at first we were told yes I spoke to both presidents of the unions they like the idea aide but then we've come to find that the folks don't have the EMT anymore so it's not something that we can do immediately but that was my initial attempt to fix this was to give your guys overtime give you more money because frankly even pay in an extra $500 a day if you pick up and answer an insurance call you pay for your shift with one Insurance call so it works out but you don't have your EMT sirch according to the chief maybe that's something that we can incentivize as well but again we need an immediate response to an immediate need and I apologize that there are folks that are not going to get promoted as a I'm going I'm going to discontinue this discussion uh we're going to have a public hearing on this at the end of the month at our uh meeting on the 31st so this has been hashed out very well tonight I think we've all understand what the issues are and I'd like to move on from that is anybody have any other comments other for another topic if not then I would I'm sorry I'll guess ma'am I'm going to ask you to make it very brief you've had two times up here already whle Beach you keep saying you don't have money and you got to let these people go why are we hiring two new people for the MUA uh SC going back to the mua if if I may council president the MUA is not a hire it's a statutory requirement uh currently in our ordinance that the people get appointed to the Municipal Utilities Authority it's not a job uh it's my understanding that the MUA they do give each other they do give themselves health insurance that is a cost but right now it's in the ordinance for a very long time it's an established Authority it's not a job and again we're not letting anyone go they're retiring they're they're a FOC retiring and we're using that money to hire ambulance drivers so no one has been uh let go except for the public information officer which is uh a civilian position that writes press releases for the chief but we have someone at the township that does that as well so we're going to just consolidate that so I hope that answers your question I just think that the there's so many people in the MUA so yeah it's required five it's required okay anyone else with a different topic if not then I'd like to have a motion to I'm sorry didn't see your hand sorry I have to Circle back for the same topic and I know you want to table it just give me one minute can you please say your name and address my name is Anthony Basher thank you trolling with the toms police but I'm also the vice president PBA 137 okay Tom pleas so I just have to address one quick inaccuracy that was stated here tonight there's two letters drafted one from the fop one from the PBA against this agenda here and there was something stated that said that this was a surprise both of these letters were a surprise the mayor that's inaccurate now I can't speak for somebody else but I have counseled with President Kenny Thomas which is president of the PBA 137 and I can tell you this that the PBA has been staunchly against this proposal from the very beginning and this these letters should have never came as any sort of surprise period I don't have the letter but Mr quinas does thank you for your time thank [Applause] you s a different topic I hope no no okay uh my name is Andrew tck I'm a sergeant with the Town Police Department uh Mr Mayor do elected councilman want to congratulate you on your uh election but I would like to ask you guys since you've been elected how many times have you came into our Police Department to look what we actually do how many times have you reached out and came and saw what a captain does how many people out here have gotten a firearm permit right sir please just address the council please all right thank you firearm permits that wouldn't be get done if we don't have a captain right there's numerous functions of the police department that you guys just think that three captains supervise six we actually seven lieutenants and it goes from it's a pyramid it goes all the way down so the captain's got Hispanic control goes all the way down and I think that your span of control facts that you're you're giving us are incorrect okay that's all I'm to say about that but I just encourage you guys please come to our Police Department see what's actually done before you start cutting positions all right thank [Applause] you yes sir same topic uh Brian Doyle uh petto drive I'm also a sergeant with Tom Police Department uh and and I'm just going to kind of go on what Sergeant jerck just said uh besides just coming to our Police Department have you looked around at surrounding towns okay Brick Township Police Department slightly smaller 140 146 officers they have a chief a deputy chief and three captains okay Lakewood Police Department 170 officers a little bit bigger a chief and four captains Manchester Police Department right next door half our size 80 man Department a chief and two captains so so why do you guys think that uh we deserve less than that okay a proper uh to have a properly um I'm sorry I'm just a little bit nervous but you have to have a properly supervised Department to have it run efficiently safely and properly thank you I see no other hands so I'm going to ask oh sorry sorry you're okay because the pumpkin doesn't get here until midnight so here all right I could dance still midnight good good evening everyone my name is Christopher Anderson I'm from Baywood Drive in Tom's river in Silverton congratulations to Mr Dan Rodrick mayor appreciate you and congratulate you on your new ter Mr lamb congratulations for your service as well I'm 51 years old I'm born and raised in Tom's River I probably been here longer than most of you but certainly not all I'm raising my family in Silverton and Mr R's Ward former Ward and also been a police officer for nearly 30 years uh one thing that I like to encourage the council is to use expanded thinking because not only being an administrator in the police department you're now administrators of our Township so with it's important that we open our eyes look for new ideas invent new ways to find funds and to drive our department into the future we may introduce one ambulance now but as everyone said our Township is continuing to grow so we're going to have this conversation two or three years from now Mr rodri I know you frequent Southwest Florida as well as I do uh as we look at the great Republican state of Florida we do see often it means a service and hybrid Services I respect your idea of putting a police officer in an ambulance because it introduces new thinking and I respect that but when we look at the State of Florida particularly Southwest we see the fire department operate in ambulances with EMTs it's a great idea too yeah so these are just extra ideas that you know we can probably consider we've heard First Responders talk tonight we heard police we heard EMTs we heard paramedics I did not hear anybody mentioned fire department I know we pay our taxes to a different commission but it's time to empower our Township our police police chief our governing body to form a summit and Mr nison you mentioned the the very strong words of forming a task force to look over Building Inspections there's no reason why we can't form a task force to find solutions to outfit ambulances and to also save our jobs at the police department thank [Applause] you my name is Michael Beller I am the first captain that is retiring here February in two weeks I'm the administrative captain and yes I have two lieutenants that report directly to me I have several civilian employees but I am also responsible for our entire jail all class ones twos and three officers our sro's the csos that's a lot and now to dump that onto Deputy Chief delain or the chief is ridiculous those all those people I can delegate my authority but my I'm still responsible for those all those people and that's probably 150 or so at least employees that I'm still ultimately responsible for so to say that it's just a couple lieutenants it's absolutely incorrect the other thing I'd like to say is is anything going to be done about Silverton first aid Squad sad and the thousands of calls they take every year from the csos well I think I think it's safe to say that if we had more ambulances on the road from the township that we would pick up more calls yeah but there is a contract that is in place that that has never been signed it's been it was in put in place several years ago rolled over as I'm sure you're aware um it's a legal matter and I can't discuss anything further but as you know I'm a uh staunch advocate of making sure that our CSO program is properly staffed and is taking care of our residents I I can't discuss the Silverton EMS thing at this time like I said it's a legal matter that is something that taking that is taking thousands of thousands of dollars well as you know former mayor Tom kellaher put out a letter letter to the entire Community about it um it's something that we are reviewing again right now uh and I can't really comment much on it okay the other thing I want to address is that you said something about having police officers you you wanted to have police officers EMTs to ride the rigs we did that last year last couple years now we've done that with our dispatchers and have been had to stop doing that because this the CFO and the previous business administrator said that that was costing us too much to do that so those people are making a lot less money in their overtime rates than the police officers are and we couldn't do it then so why could we then now do it all a sudden with police officers well Captain Miller I think you understand then what I'm trying to do yes do you I'm trying to add csos okay well so that we can answer those calls so that we can safely uh get people to hospitals and that we collect the insurance money uh that is a service that is frankly uh a service that the town has a right to render and if a private entity is um giving that service they're supposed to be it's supposed to be bid Tom Kell put out a letter about that um nothing was done um again this is a legal matter and I really shouldn't discuss it the other issue I just wanted just address is I know some I don't know if any of the early people are still here they talked about Long Way times for ambulances and it's true that the ambulances they're covering a lot of square we have 41 square miles that we have ambulances that are covering and csos may be only a couple rigs on Silverton usually has one to two rigs on and we have repeatedly tried this past year policy that I wrote within the last two years that when there's no ambulances available on the on the beach we would have a Mainland ambulance stationed down at the at the base of the bridge Silverton refuses to do that okay they refuse to come Central when we have no rigs available anywhere in town our general practice is we're going to have an ambulance come hang Central in our town whether that be 37 in Hooper or at our headquarters so they can easily get to any part of town again refuses to do that and they repeatedly refuse to do that EMS is a top priority I've been in discussions with the president of their Association as well as well as other csos all of these issues that you brought to light here at this meeting are going to be rectified I hope so and I hope everybody remembers those issues those are the issues with the ambulances and coverage thank [Applause] you well I see no other hand so I'm going to ask if we could have a vote to adjourn the public portion of this meeting I'll make that motion I'll second all in favor I I'm notw anyon for is there a motion to adjourn the meeting there is a motion to adjourn the meeting may have a second second second all in favor I thank you folks