##VIDEO ID:TO_nykmpOfo## call the meeting to order for the Townson affordable housing trust for September 4th uh beginning at 116 PM could I have a roll call please Dave warland present oh City Bounty present sorry and verica Cal present so um uh I'd like to announce that the meeting is being recorded we are not live on Channel 9 um and um to see if anybody else is recording the meeing I have a hidden camera on all right uh Chairman's additions and deletions I don't have anything does anybody else anything no you know what I'm probably real quick I probably shouldn't even bring this up now were we supposed to get morning in my uh you you two do need to be but there's a period of time okay so you and Beverly yeah yeah oh me and whatever's in might not be able to vote if we have anything to vote on today yeah I'm trying to remember I can look at the email really quick I know I thought I was going to get here early before the meeting but I got held up and they're they're closed they just open oh they did just open okay when I came in they were closed oh jeez what did it say iint letter let's try that let me see if I have it in the are we voting on anything today are we doing um we don't have any huge things to vote on I don't think um I if they're open I can run downstairs and get SW in right because I'm just doing I swear that's true you can do that you want um by the town clerk additionally town clerk will declare the position vacant if an individual has not been sworn in within two months of the effective date of appointment oh so I'm still good two months right isn't what's the effective date wasn't it um August uh wait July no it's August 6 August so I'm good yeah I can do you cannot assume your duties and responsibilities she can vote within next I can't assume you have go down and should I run down sorry you guys yeah let's take a um let's take a five minute recess so um so I have the minutes here on my thing did you print them out too we don't need to I did not but I can have yeah I don't have them did you email them to I didn't check email this morning yes I can I can print them if you'd like you'd like to print them yeah go ahead and do that summer did you do anything fun okay excuse me are you guys uh going into now yeah we're taking five minutes um while Cindy gets sworn in okay I will uh I will stop the recording and then we'll resume the recording when you resume the meeting perfect thank you okay we are now recording again all right we are back from our recess and all members are eligible to folks so all right so um uh we right now at um 2.1 approving the meeting minutes so um any comments on the minutes no I think we're good so was there a motion to approve commend are we doing both sets because I'll make a motion I just have July 29th oh oh June 17th oh can we not approve them I don't think so because I don't know I forget there was some problem didn't we wasn't that why June came up I don't think we approve June so we have June 17 and July no June was not approved last time I didn't have them ready yet yeah and I don't mean that as a thing so do you have the June ones in front oh yes well when you're are you yeah I I just I looked at them quick at home um all right well I don't mind being on the Spectrum or being fluid but I'm Mr whing it says M but that's okay I mean maybe you know I didn't see that just saying say there's been a couple spots where I notice it after so I'm when I'm typing quickly and then I just I go through and I look at everybody's last name to make sure that it's spelled correctly but I don't check the Mr Miz or we just say we can say my mom my mom was it to me let's just um and that's in the June set June set yeah the fourth bullet down okay I can fix that oh it's all well it's also under hanburg wo Road the Third one but the forestry one it's me so I guess my mom was here also the haes road um one it's under that to the third bullet down see I will go through and make sure that they were all Che oh yeah my mom was under hand it's so nice her to attend oh good all right so looks good to me it looks good to me so is there a motion to accept the June 177 um meeting minutes with those Corrections with the corrections I I I move to accept the minutes for June 17th with the with the corrections I will second all right all those in favor further discussion no no all those in favor I I all those opposed all right and um how about the July 29th meeting minutes is there a motion to accept I move to accept the July 29th minutes I mean no I yes I second I'm sorry my my brain I'm a little all those in favor I I you're in favor corre yes I'm in favor all in favor I know and I will get my brain into where I am right are all right so so that's the meeting minutes all right moving on to um 2.1 um the apology from tcam has been accepted and I just want to discuss what open meeting law says about recording meetings um so um my understanding was that you if you are recording a meeting you need to announce to the chair that you are and that is in fact what's in the open meeting law so do we have copies this is on page 18 the current open meeting la which is from um 2023 all right so um if you look this is under public participation um so second paragraph any member of the public may make an audio or video recording of an open session of a public meeting a member of the public who wishes to record a meeting must first notify the chair and must comply with reasonable requirements regarding audio or video equipment established by the chair so as not to interfere with the meeting the chair is required to inform other attendees of any such recording at the beginning of the meeting if someone arrives after the meeting has begun and wishes to record a meeting that person should attempt to notify the chair prior to beginning recording ideally in a manner that does not significantly disrupt the meeting in progress such as passing a note for the chair to the board administrator or secretary that chair should Endeavor to acknowledge such attempts at notification and announce the fact of any recording to those in attent so in fact we were correct as far as the recording of that meeting goes and we are asking that anybody recording a public meeting please notify the chair as required by open meeting anything else to say on that I do have it's a little squished it's been in the bottom of my pocketbook do you need to C it's a little squished in the air here that's making I think it's like it's allergies you know what I don't I'll take I open I think it's been there a while these are traded Joe's but it gets squeezed in the bottom of my pocket book so okay do that or I should run out and get oh yeah I I have this one this's a oh it is you can't get the paper off these these don't look much better sorry maybe your recaller is better what you like can give it to Ronnie that all right so anything else on the open meeting law and recording before we move on no I'm I'm just I'm glad that we figured that out you know that it's clarifi yeah so all right um easement review zo West El street again I sent that email and I didn't check today to see if you had responded to me um yes they were both so both the documents that I sent over in the packet um were from uh Town Council um and yes that is the only document the map that we have um the one that is um I believe it's handdrawn or most handrawn it's handdrawn it's the one that we were looking at yeah um do you want to screen share the certificate of trust so the easement that we approved for the water department on the property that we're hoping to develop with Mass Housing Partnership that easement has never been recorded why I know was the water Department's yeah thing and they just never did T can you enable uh screen sharing for me okay stand by please thank you for me forgive me what what's your name Ain steepfield okay eron my apologies hold on okay thank you um so we had requested at one of our meetings back in the spring that this get recorded so that's what this process is now so Adam I talked to Adam about it too maybe in April when I met with him so he said the water department had to um contact him I don't know if it was the water department or you Aon who talked to Adam to get this rolling that was me yeah yeah so Adam said that he had things that could be um Ed to get this process going so what we need to do is look at the documents here and uh get it filled in and signed so that's what we're looking at here so if you look at this um a certificate of trust has to be recorded um there already is one recorded at the registry I think that this is just um REM memorializing it I don't know what the word is for this but um just a statement of trust that would go in so it doesn't change any of the terms of the trust okay this is what we did when we all got reappointed B okay right is that what this this will to this is for the blood Road property for the easement for the water departments okay that's what I thought we were doing so okay so Adam says that we have to like put a certified the who we all are on the trust granting the okay because the one that was recorded was recorded back in 2020 when it was first when they were without were the people that on all thank you I it's to thought I was losing my mind I was like I don't understand what this has to do with the with the EAS me and I'm like okay no okay I get it I get it all right I'm good sorry so it just says who we are yeah and then we're still then it will be recorded these we are still acting as um that we're allowed to Grant the easement yeah is the way I read it and um now sorry property that we are granting the Ean on oh is right there registered with [Music] the the board of registry so these are the ones that we um that this suppes too I wondered how they got the land it was a judgment a tax lean that's how they got the land huh okay believe that's the end of it just okay and it's really only on that one property because there's two properties there yeah and then we um I believe that the town clerk's office has so do we have to sign it in front of the town clerk more than likely yes okay so when will that happen um we'll decide that yeah uh because we're going to have to fill in uh might we wait until the water department um records the easement what does this have to happen concurrently it's Adam is the one that will do the okay um recording at the registry so what we need to do is just read through this make sure it's okay I I think it is and um have Aaron fill in the did Adam draft this yes okay um we voted this like in the fall like I you weren't here Aon um we voted it in the fall so we have to figure out exactly which meeting that was at for number five I guess it is and then we are the trustees we were the same trustees back then as we are now we haven't changed that so Aon would need to put in our names on this and I should be go back and figure out what date it was I'll get ear in the date and then we could come in some when is our next meeting um 16 no we have September dates oh next Thursday oh that's the joint meeting The Joint meeting and then I thought we had set up a date for the 16th I think that's correct but um and we'll talk about that more in the executive session so we could do it on the 16th we could sign all of this then because it's a daytime meeting [Music] um and uh yes dat is available um uh we could sign it down so so let's go to the next document which is the um there was the certificate of trust and then there's the Declaration of easement or whatever I don't know that I'm using the right words but the grant of water and easement and drainage easement so Erin's going to share that one as well and then there's a the handwritten picture which we've all seen already the easement plan so this is the um on the property there on West down a Perpetual irrevocable and exclusive right ement in a cross over under a long and upon the land identified as the water Ease on a sketch plan of land entitled proposed West Elm booster pump towns and water department undated but annexed here to as exhibit a this was the one that was brought to us it was last summer it was like August that he brought it in August or September and we voted it I think in our October meeting but I'll look to be sure um so he describes that based on that picture um a drainage easement that got added um but it's also in the picture why is there discrepancy between 2500 square feet and 2 50 square fet what why is there a 450 square foot discrepancy between oh that's a good question is there any reason for that or is that just a Mis is that a inversion of the two numbers yeah um is there a reason for that further down that I can't see uh bring up the picture I didn't print these three my guess is that it's just a m type yeah but there are two pieces that's what I want to look at there are two pieces that he has drawn on the the picture [Music] yeah there's 2050 on the left type oh this is the water easement so this actually is 40 it's 4550 square feet yeah yeah yes I remember when we went there and we said oh this is a little bigger than we thought then it was right okay um because had just talked about the water easement he hadn't talked about the drainage easement understood um and but it's still provides us with 200 feet of Frontage on the main road which is important for us of course so and and it is just that one lot we do have that second lot you know in farther down on blood road so anyway um so we've already given that up but anyway that is not a typo that is what it is so thanks for checking and thanks for noting that so um I I didn't I missed that completely but I didn't see anything terrible about this when I read through it the other night um it just it gives them the right to do whatever they need to do so it gives them exclusive rights to um use that area proposed pump house and other Waterfront infrastructure as the case may be so it pretty much grants them all out whatever you need I assume they're not putting a six foot you know six story structure on it um a Perpetual drain AES um yeah didn't they say it was going to be like on West meal Road I think like it's yes that's what we were told so is that it or is there more okay so it gives book and page so it's still part of our title of our property we still own the property we won't do a conflicting easement on on that section of the property that's number two so I think this is standard yeah it looks three looks pretty standard so the water department can transfer if if the water department would become something else in the future but it's all for the purpose of the water utilities right it's pretty much all inclusive though but I couldn't think of anything that oh we should say don't do this don't do that could you think of anything Aaron do you think it's it's pretty broad but yeah it'll allow us to have water on that site yeah is what does and we need Town water on that site big ass I wonder if you would want to ask something like um I don't even know if this is possible but to have sort of right of first refusal for something that is goes beyond the scope of General pump house or something I'm not sure if they wanted to like create something that was larger scope or say this would be a great place for our new water tower I know I know yeah yeah I know because that's pretty the the is yeah it is for incl so but but yeah you're right like maybe there should be something that's just like this is just this like not something else because yeah what is there another page after six or is that just the end of it oh yeah that's just the end of it okay let me see number seven can scroll yeah I it's hard for me to imagine anything anything Happ would really be an issue and you could ask Adam if he feels that it needs to be more more do that tightly defined do that yeah ask you know I I think that's a good point if it's ever more than yeah just six the the easement is for the benefit of of the water department I mean just you wouldn't want it to intrude in any way to the enjoyment of people who are living on that adjacent property yeah exactly there something of that yeah that's kind of the yeah yeah so Ain if you could ask him that you know I mean Pump House and drainage is one thing putting in a water treatment plant even though that's a tiny piece of property really yeah but but still yeah yeah but you know it smells and it's intruding on the enjoyment of people who are living in in the adjacent property so something like that something like that yeah I'll bet there's a little boilerplate thing he can just pull right out and and pop in there yeah the basement is just for this it's just for a so ask him about for the sole purpose of just to yes and to make sure that it doesn't intrude on the enjoyment of the property of the res the residents yeah so so where we're good with the pump house this seems to give them a lot of uh leeway well ement granted for the sole purpose of a pump house and then the drainage thereof that maybe that's all you got to say and then if they wanted to do something else they would have to come back and ask for and ask for so I would keep it as simple as possible okay so the sole purpose of a pump house I guess is what we're looking for Dra and drainage which is which is what the water department wants so it shouldn't be an issue at all all right and then um the 16th will sign for whenever we next meet at 1:00 all right so is there anything else we need to do with this I don't think so all right moving on uh West blood Ro property type of housing to explore for the site discussion on developing an Outreach plan for types of housing for the blood Road plots um we were hoping to hear from MHP by today do report on that Aon sure um so I reached out once again um and haven't heard back from um Laura MHP um but when I do you all will be the first to know and we will move on from there but um hopefully we will yeah be able to continue this soon I mean I I know that she had to speak with the engineers and I'm sure that they are busy um but hopefully to yeah hopefully we'll be able to get some answers and um have something to look at or at least to consider in in the short term it's been a little bit I mean I suppose it's just I'm sure everyone's busy and then it's August people are on vacation and um but yeah well we's see good it's so slow it is it is just but I've learned over the years that everything goes like this just so slowly I know time it'll get done so all right so let's defer this question to our next meeting we'll just keep it on every agenda until we have reason to change the wording yeah so that's why they're like yeah we definitely we do this the time this what we do definitely sign up with us we're like okay it's been almost a year it was October when you and I went to see their development out in western Mass that's right and where they suggested that we contact them and and the contact took two months to get anything rolling and then it's just been glacial glacial but but you know CH moves faster yeah and you know what it's not a no it's not enough no one has called and said hey you know what you guys have a problem here no we're just we're in que and unfortunately you know take a number we had it back we'll get to the FR event and it's true I mean what the minutes from was it our last meeting the July um we had we did have a report so that was July this is September now but it's kind of our a this meeting so and I did not read the whole piece on the adus but I assume that you might have some little synopsis on it look through I didn't look through all 150 pages but um I but you get the gist of it yeah there was a radio show I was listening to on my way to Native today um all about the adus but they were talking about chat movie Tennessee other places this is a thing very very big thing well when I went to that um thing in uh in June um I don't think it had been quite signed yet but it had been in discussions right but what they said is that you really wanted to keep your accessory develop uh accessory dwelling units and your affordable housing piece separate okay so I'm good with that um but do you want to talk about the Adu bylaw so we're moving on to 2.5 new state law regarding accessory dwelling units adus and affordable house so um yeah so it's a very long uh law that was signed in it's yeah something like 150 or 200 pages I did not read it all I read quite a bit of it in fact there's something that I had to explore a little bit more but we might have um funding incoming for creating affordable housing here in Townsend I read a single line in uh a very long section that said 250,000 was coming to Townson we do um it's a bond Bill okay um and uh actually I have set up a meeting with Margaret Scarsdale um for September 10th okay um I was going to attend that um to discuss that and how that works that process and also I mean this is kind of conflating the next you know further down um uh the affordability piece in 2.7 but also how we can change the community that we're in for afford you know affordability but we'll talk about that with 2.7 okay but but yes there's 250,000 um for each of the uh NBTA Community um no each of the communities in Margaret scarsdale's District okay she managed to um uh see that we were all going to be afforded that with I don't know how it fits with the bylaw but it's part of that deal and so each of the communities out here that she you know so lunenberg peppol Townson is she Ashby I'm not sure yeah Ashby I think she is that we will all be getting 250,000 which is a drop in the bucket when you're developing but something something that we would not otherwise have so you know I'm I'm grateful for that I attended her office hours um for two reasons one was to find out what she knew about this which you'll get later um and also how we how we go about how does that 250,000 work is it being put in the general fund and then we have to see at a town meeting that it gets transferred how is this going to work um you know into the trust account will it be but it's specifically for affordable housing right it is that's how it's listed in theall yeah okay so that's just a practical matter of right of the how the money flows but it doesn't go into a general fund to be used for anything it has to be used specifically for this I'm asking um that's the question come um you would think that would when you meet with when you be maret starsdale I would ask the question yes why we set up the meeting going to be pertinent to every town that she's you're marked that money for right they're all going to ask the same question more than likely yeah yeah so um I know you would think if it was for affordable housing it would go to affordable housing but yeah you're absolutely right I mean if you don't have a trust where does the money go um before our account was established what a year ago yeah where would that money have gone if it came if it comes to a town it's going to the general fund so what is the mechanism get it where practical issue that be addressed yeah okay so anyway um and I want I want the town to have their eyes open and be aware because affordability in towns and gets lip service and not much else so that's me editorializing but that's what I see so um so for the affordable homes act which is the legislation that was just passed um the big thing for uh that we're looking at is the adus which are now um it's sometime I I want to say it's a February 15th or something like that um it will be ad are allowed by right in any single family District residential district um you are only allowed to put one by right so you may not um you know put four on your property or something like that they are limited to either 900 square feet or half of the primary residences square footage whichever is smaller and it must have you know kitchen bathroom bedrooms things like that so you can't just have um a uh a bedroom with a bathroom or something it has to be some place somebody could actually reside yeah um and this does uh go over towns and Adu bylaw which means that um we would be referring to the state for going forward for the Adu bylaw we will likely be looking at changing towns in's bylaw zoning bylaw um to either say look towards the state zoning bylaw for um adus by right or we will be sort of reflecting it back into the zoning by law towns and Zoning by so I attended the planning board meeting do you want me to talk now sure a couple weeks ago where they took the 10% out of the MBTA bylaw um and uh they discussed the Adu bylaw and they um the question was and it was the mrpc guy who was there um are they going to allow more than one unit and the answer was yes will towns in town okay on a on a single family unit um so I I could put I'm just so make sure I understand this it's everyone's allowed one single on a single family unit to put in an Adu by right by right it's 900 square feet right maximum or yes yes okay yeah or half the right but that's the which whichever is smaller right um if you have a 4,000 sare foot house you could do half is 2,000 you could do 2,000 no you could do whichever small okay so 900 Max okay all right and towns in would let me do two I could two by special permit you'd have to go and say I want to do a a second or a third but um you'd have to go and do a special permit for that I believe yeah I heard it differently okay but that it could be I don't I haven't gone to a planning board meeting since um so I don't know if they've changed that yeah it could also be that when we if we change the zoning bylaw for the adus it could be um added in differently that for instance um you know in towns and you're allowed to adus by right or you know it it could be something like that yes as long as you the state is saying you can have one correct and then but but they don't care if if Townson says we want to have two you know by right yeah I think if I think if they said you want to expand this so that more people can have more affordable housing housing options because the idea is that adus while they're not affordable they are less expensive to build because they are smaller and therefore can be people who are starting out or people who um are looking to you know have their have their parents move in with them but they don't want to be in the same home they want a little bit of Separation it provides more affordable options but little a not big a affordable but here's the thing and um I didn't let you finish on the Adu um the primary residence or any of the residences do not need to be own occupied so they don't have to be own occupied correct so they can be rentals is that they can all be rentals the main house and however many adus as the town decides um can go on the property and fit given that we don't have you know septic everybody's private septic we don't have the town sewage system um as many as you can fit they can all be rentals which is my problem with that bylaw if I remember right it's a practical matter most of the town is UN septic right all no oh the whole town that's I'm sorry I'm confusing I'm confusing us with the neighbor so that being said wouldn't that self-limit one think you would think it would yeah yeah you'd have to change your septic if you wanted to put in multiple but I think I want to double check on what you just said about the primary residence because I know that there was a couple of different sections one was specifically about um communities that have been deemed like like vacation communities they don't that's air that's to do the airbn they were okay um they were trying to make it so that these adus did not become airbnbs vacation rentals so there are certain communities that are called out yes in there um so that they will have housing available for workers in the community but I think that there was I'm trying to I'm not finding it very quickly but I thought I saw something about how um oh wait I just find it um I read um I didn't read the whole B I read Adam um it says under the legislation's amendment to gl4 A3 aka the do Amendment no zoning ordinance or bylaw shall prohibit unreasonably restrict or require a special permit or other discretionary zoning approval for a single accessory dwelling unit or the rental there of in a single family residential zoning District the new legislation also removes municipality's authority to impose an owner occup okay yeah you're right requirement on an Adu oh on an Adu in a single family residential uh I don't um my understanding is that you don't have to I mean because the owner occupied the owner doesn't have to be in the Adu right um for ours the owner had to be somewhere on on property um but if I'm re remembering let me find this I know it's gone you don't these can be I'm to sound like a nimy person and I'm gonna sound like the the antithesis of affordable housing but you could have people that come in and buy a house and that's on three or four acres of land or three acres of land and they could put up turn everything into a a rental thing because there aren't any rentals in towns and that's one of OD things you know and I don't know I don't know that's kind of something to think about I don't know how I feel about that like if that's like a good thing or not a good thing or this what they were talking today about the radio was that you know there's a supply and a demand issue and you know you you have to address both and you have to somehow incentivize both but you know I think historically the the the rental market has has been addressed more than the construction the supply end has not been subsidized or incentivized as much as the as the rental side there's been more things for rentals yeah yeah and so they're trying it's it's a it's a it's a balancing act that the government's trying to do yeah um you know there aren't there isn't enough housing period yeah yeah and so it's c supicious Circle where if there's not enough housing then the rents go up because there limited housing rents get more expensive with the interest rates mortgage rates and the construction not being subsidized that people can't afford to buy homes yeah so the homes that exist are limited so the rents get higher and higher and then people have less money that they can save to be put down at down payment to buy a house yeah you know I mean I've heard there's a proposal now to give $25,000 on a down payment I don't know I'm not sure there's got to be a lot of fine print with that yeah but it's I mean it sounds like a sort of a good idea but I don't know if it'll get this for first time buyers have you heard that this is this is an idea that's being proposed um I don't think it's a bad thing to have encourage more housing on a when you get on a practical level like in this town because what you're saying yeah there could be a gazillion of them but because everybody's on septic I think it presents a self-limiting kind of deal because it it gets very very expensive to unless I don't know how the zoning works I mean could you could you put on an acre of land could you put like half a dozen adus and then tie them all into one you know six bedroom if you were doing one bedroom adus and just and I mean is that how you read that you do that so I mean it it would depend on yeah how the single family because there it has to be attached to single family residence right so you can't have just oh and it's done it's done by wait is it done by bedrooms or bathrooms why can't I remember when I put my septic is yeah I mean your septic system is set up for like two three four five bedrooms that's for the but that's the single family house right so your house has what three four bedrooms yeah you got a septic system for that yeah now you're going to add an Adu you you can only tie that in if you have it maxed out what you've got I have on my sub and if you maxed that out then that one has to have its own system or you have to take the system you have and upgrade it upgrade it and that's expensive yeah so that's why I say some would control it it could also be that in um you know in towns and if we decided to allow more than one Adu by right or it could be um you know it's uh you know one Adu by right and then up to you know I'm completely making this up but you know up to six by special permit or something you know these kinds of things um that would have it would be a longer process and so fewer people would do it but it also might create the incentive for people to create more of that housing because we we do have a lack of housing stock yeah um and I mean the the lot sizes here are huge compared to a lot of other places and so you know you could have an Adu on your property and never see it if you have enough land you have that's true that's true you wouldn't have to then split your you know split your lot or anything but you would maybe be able to provide housing to you know to a family friend or uh put it out for rent on the open market and you know get get rental that way um but it it these are different things that can be built into your zoning bylaw and so I think if if towns were to create a different a we're going to have to create something different for the Adu bylaw it would have to be a discussion and I'm sure that um the planning board and Zoning would like to hear what um the trust thinks about that and what's you know have that sort of longer discussion about you know how can we make sure that we are providing um small a affordable housing at least more housing stock so all right let me ask you this I I guess I sort of know the answer but if you have a you need 200 feet of Frontage for a single family home right and then you put particular your number 68 to use 6A to use on that property that still is okay with just 200 feet of Frontage yes is that what this says yeah yeah it's not based on your Frontage it's based on um at least for the for this one by right it does not matter you don't have to have additional front right right for the one by right now what so now you want a special permit for three right 200 that might be something that has to go and have a longer discussion about because yeah if you're if you need for instance three extra driveways or something then obviously you need more more Frontage in order to put that in somewhere yeah um so I think it's yeah these are all things that are going to have to come up and well you can use the same driveway doesn't it say that there's no additional requirements for um parking um we had had parking requirements in our Adu bylaw but I thought I read somewhere I think it's within a half mile or a mile of Transit but there's no additional parking requirements where where can I find that by oh um no additional parking spaces are required if the unit is with than a half mile of Transit there could be no requirement for more than one additional parking space per unit otherwise okay half mile of Transit meaning within a half mile of a road what does that no um of what bus line train oh well that's self limiting right there yeah well you know but does it count that we have you know service now MBT you know the um monachus Regional transits so within a half mile of where it it picks up which is Town Hall you have to call to get it now you know if you're going to if you need it you have to call usually they will um and it could be that you know this is obviously just Adam's uh summary of it it could be that it's in the longer um legislation that it might State like fixed roots or um if it is um train station right yeah it might call out specific Transit options typically when they say trans Transit they mean right exactly yeah I you know what I think Title Five is going to be a big issue with this and I think that they probably wrote this they wrote this for the whole state so it's written for cities and towns that all have public SCH um because I think Title Five for a town like towns is is definitely going to limit this you know um so yeah you still have to go through and get all the proper permitting it's not you know just because it's by right does not mean that we Sweep All permits under the rug right so you still have to go through Health you still have to go through building you still have to um have a lot of checks and balances and but there will be an uproar because I saw this on conservation with approval not required what do you mean I can't put my house there this is approval not required I don't need your approval um and they'll people will say the same thing with by right I'm allowed to have this what do you mean I have to put in a septic system to support it it's by right therefore it is my right um it's your right to to poison my water supply no it's not but but that's what we will hear and things will go in that's all I have to say Devil's Advocate anyway so I'm yeah the only thing is this in the whole law I can't find it in here is it owner occupied or not own occupied doesn't seem to matter I that's the way I read it when I looked if you're trying to encourage more housing then it's going to be either way right I mean if that's if the idea of this is to create more housing and it doesn't have to be going to occupy and supposedly if this enough units then it'll there's enough competition it'll keep the rents reasonable Market you knowon they won't like they won't be crazy because now there's so many of them that's the theory that's the theory um I don't know that that's really going to matter I I think a long time for I think though that I don't quite understand why we are even talking okay um are we still on the state law regarding adus and affordable housing I think it's a lot of food for thought I don't think we know enough to really yeah to have a just not sure how how we can take advantage of that yet well here's the thing I think it's mathematically impossible for this town to ever get 10% of housing without inclusionary zoning without having 10% um required in MBTA communities with it is mathematically impossible to get 10% of homes in towns and on the state housing inventory for affordability um it's just mathematically impossible we don't have any inclusionary sing I'm kind of moving on aren't I well since say you're nicely segueing into the into 2.7 I'm kind of skipping over 2.6 so let's come back to 2.6 and go to 2.7 so even though you read in the minutes that the a able housing 10% was included in the M NBTA bylaw uh they took it out for exactly what we're talking about to provide more stock that will get more houses built if we don't have an affordability piece to it well that's cool and maybe that's true oh and the houses in towns that are already affordable which they are not uh not anymore you used to be able to make that case but you can't anymore so I have some stuff to give to you um so I think I already gave it to you guys yeah I oh did I have more copies or so a couple things so this is affordability um it was actually um ran broughton's housing person who work these up for me so for uh if you look at these two to affordability three-bedroom house in towns and using the index that we have and this other paper is the indexes which we'll look at um is 33675 for a three-bedroom home and right now I mean I've been looking on the uh on Zillow and we don't have any affordable houses in town anymore have they sold any of that three unit piece on Route 13 um they dropped the price to 479,000 1,200 finished yeah with the option of more the basements the walkout part in back is unfinished okay um and uh but it's the one floor I think is 1,00 all right um so and they have not sold but I'm told that they will sell and that people from Boston will come and buy them because being a town person who's 55 and over there's no way I'd sell my house and move there and pay 500,000 even 4 no I mean I look at that and say if that's true then mil house is worth $2 million maybe three I know but I don't know that's kind of hard but those the pricing is too high yeah um and you know and there's a second set uh that was just permitted of 55 and over market rate housing um yeah same area of L 13 little bit farther closer to town and um it's it if the selling Target price is 500,000 they're never goingon to they're not going to sell to the people in town they might sell to other people but not to people who are already well and now what when do you think the little village they're building now in Bron is going to be ready five years less uh the one at the old um yeah did checking account check making yes no Delux it used to be nebs that's going to be a like a like a village like yeah like 250 units yeah it's huge um I mean that I wonder how because I'm sure a portion of that a good portion of that is going to be affordable hous correct and okay so let's look to this table then okay all right so affordability in Townson so Townson is in the Boston Cambridge Quincy so our loow income limit for four person is 13,250 and that's what these numbers were done all right Bron and pepper tingbo Westford are in the L Mass region and there it's 97,500 so the income limits are way lower which means the affordability the amount that you have to pay for an affordable house will be lower it will be cheaper if you live in Townsen to buy uh an affordable home if it's 55 and over and you want affordable it will be cheaper to go to Groton to buy a home then it will be to stay in Townson to buy the same house or the same because of this affordability index you know you will pay less than GR have to pay for affordability this was that the affordability guidelines were done at the federal level right by H they are done at the federal level how does H figure how do they get group these places together is beyond me so idea I have an idea I think it's because of they use the registry of deeds and town County yeah middlex County but for the registry of deeds our Deeds go to Cambridge because right years ago they followed the railroad line and our Deeds went to the Cambridge and that's why we're in the southern registry deeds groten peil and those towns go to L because the train went to L the train line went to low so I think HUD sat down and what the heck do they know about the manua of all these towns and was like okay central registry I mean the southern registry of deeds we're going to lump all these people together these there can you bring that up when you talk to Miss scar I intend to I'm I'm providing this so here's metropolitan area classification of metropolitan areas from the HUD website um or I I at least found the reference this is chapter 13 and they do it by commuting where they think you're commuting to which fits Cindy's theory of trains because they probably figured oh if you live on that train line you're commuting there if you live on that train line you're commuting there and that's not at all how it works here anymore I mean maybe it did in 1920 yeah um but it doesn't now and they haven't changed it and it's also well that needs to be changed Census Bureau um my my guess is so anyway on the back of one of these pages is who you want to call and so I called Wana Matias Robert for and Ron cilian and left the message and they have not called me back they were out of the office when I called them not this past week but the week before they were out of the office and would return calls when they came back and they probably thought I was in that case when I said I was you know the chair of the affordable housing trust and really wanted to understand why we were in classified in the Boston Cambridge Quincy uh metropolitan area when br and peppero are in the low area and we're farther west so could you please just call me back and of course they never did so I can copy this for you too but um that is why I went to Margaret's office hours and set up the meeting for the 10th they should also look at median income ex I'll bet you brought a higher medum oh it's way higher I have those numbers I have those numbers somewhere I did it yeah look at that too all of those towns tingbo Westford um Dunstable dunable in that area sure um Groton uh peppol are all higher than us all of them yeah and they're um their median income their median home price all higher than us right we're way lower and yet affordability uh if you look at the cost of an affordable home you are better off going to gr then you are looking in tensed yeah by the affordability index um so anyway we really need to have that changed and the mrpc person who was at the planning board meeting that I attended where they took out the 10% affordability from the MBTA commun bylaw he said well you guys should really look and see if you can get your your metropolitan area changed your designation changed and he suggested that we look at wer um us and Ash because it really is an issue yeah like more line like lenberg but Worcester is the same as LOL the numbers if you look at Worcester which is the bottom of the back side it's the numbers are the same as this so I'm good either way it really doesn't matter but um anyway uh L and Worcester are equivalent as far as numbers go yeah and so we really need to be in a different area affordability here is way higher I know I know because you know for Townson to be on power with Cambridge Newton um these other is absurd it's crazy for Westford and gron and D be in those igboro to be in line with Cambridge then so anyway I I don't know what can be done about it but something needs to happen and if they do it at the census break you know it was 2020 was census 2030 and and that gives us six years because it takes that long to get anything done they I sound negative I really it's the truth so so that's this piece of it um and so now Aon has another I'm handing off to you for that I was very upset that the planning board took that out and it was actually Chaz thr Chaz under the bus here who suggested if you watch that video that we not put an affordability piece in it um I don't know why he did that but I think it was because of what you were talking about earlier Dave that volume of housing that volume of housing will cause prices to be less and that is true for a while but it takes a long time um well it for for what to have the housing stock go up significantly enough to to have that impact yeah all I know is because of Timberly Park when that was developed in the 70s early 80s all right that caused um that that provided a fair amount of housing in towns that people could afford um but that's no longer the case those houses now cost in the 400 to 500 range that's what they're selling for now which looking at this 336,000 as being affordable is no longer affordable for people so it is true that we Ed to be able to say well Townson is an affordable Community it's not anymore it's certainly doesn't cost as much as the houses in Groton but it's no longer affordable for people with normal incomes you know 130 teachers salaries you know I know because nothing nothing is nothing I mean Littleton Littleton thousand of a million dollars you know um so I don't know as you get more affordable housing in say Littleton West Bron what does that do to our housing stock does it make the price go up or does make the price go down eventually you know because then people are going to say well gee I can I can go to Groton and get a house here you know and not have to drive all the way out to towns and I'm just I'm just you know if you qu standard wise yeah yeah they so you know because will that bring our prices down in ter May and I think that's what they were banking on when they decided to take out the 10% affordability where my thought is okay there's a state housing in index your town is supposed to have 10% of its housing stock as affordable we never will unless we're going to start building projects which we never will so um or redefine affordable or redefine affordable right which is exactly yeah which is that's the other option is to redefine affordable but if we don't have houses that are built as affordable houses that can be put on the state housing inventory even if our pricing is Affordable we still don't meet that Mark that 10% affordability market and we never will because MBTA communities is such a you can put what how many houses on an acre supposedly um you know if you don't have 10% and the rest of and you only have two to 4% of your house housing stock on the affordable index it's mathematically impossible to ever get there the you know 30% or 40% of whatever we develop will never meet the um Mark once MBTA communities by right housing starts going in and never well so why are we even talking this for the Housing Authority joint meeting why are we even talking about maybe sometime being able to manage affordable housing we're never going to have it so why are we spending time worrying about that if we do have affordable housing that we need to manage we should contract that out as opposed to in our little town trying to set up a system to manage it it doesn't make sense and where I'm still thinking it's worth us developing affordable housing because it is it's not worth us worrying about that state housing index I have to just let that state housing index go and if 40b development comes in 40b development comes in you know that's all there is to it and maybe the planning board will have a backbone enough to require a certain percentage to be affordable um yeah because 40b housing is not in and of itself affordable housing I don't believe I think you have to have a section or 10 percentage of it be affordable yeah do you I I believe so I'm not 100% on that but I 140b yeah yeah but even then it's you know we'll never meet that Mark I don't think not to be negative usually a w down or negative but well you're being realistic but that's the way it is is and so I can't I don't want to spend a lot of time spinning wheels about the state housing inventory anymore I don't even want to hear about it because why why are we even talking about it do you think that's unique to towns can't be there must be other communities probably other communities but the same issue I I queried the Housing Network and um in Bedford they're all right they're way above 10% for the state housing inventory because they've been building houses that are and they did not put that 10% on because they're so far off on the so far above on their percentage that it really doesn't matter um and so they figured okay forget about it you know um but here in ton we don't have inclusionary zoning so I'm handing over to Aon we H we have elective inclusionary yes um so I'll bring this up you all can see it and nobody since the late 1980s when this was put in place has elected to put in affordable housing the only affordable housing units are in 40 BS really that's it yeah okay um so this is our zoning bylaw we have a little thing way oh maybe shouldn't it down or something yeah um yeah so this is our Zing biog this is uh section 148-08 the affordable housing uh conditional density bonus and basically what this says is that there's an opportunity for for um anybody who is doing an open space preservation development or an open space multif family development to um have 30% affordable um but it's not required it is uh allows for um what's the right word here discretion on the part of the plan yes they yeah like it says here um through a partial relaxation requirements so it it's basically saying we'll make it a little bit easier for you to do your development um if you add in is 30% affordable however it's never been used so obviously it's not that great of a incentive an incentive right so um I was thinking about a lot about this after Veronica and I chat I was ranting I wasn't gonna say that um and so if you know if it's never been used then perhaps we should take a look at it and see if we can change it to make it something that's or S rather suggest changes um to see if it's something that we can change to make it more useful so the thought is that perhaps we say that um it is mandatory right so take out the word conditional and say mandatory which is a scary word but and it doesn't necessarily have to be 30% affordable because I think 30% big number I doo I I'm good with 10% I really am good with 10% because if we said so you know 10% is mandatory or and this is I think the thing that because I was looking at a bunch of different um towns um they have inclusionary zoning and something that they will do if they don't sometimes they'll have really good like density bonuses and things like that so you can you know um if you have a um a three story Max in town they'll allow you to go up to four or five if you're providing your affordable housing or you can have a a better density on or um a higher density on your uh your property or we could look at doing something like say if you do not want to if you cannot or don't want to have any affordable housing as part of your um development then uh you can also provide uh payments in Loop affordable housing and we would also look to add to those two different types of um developments the age restricted because that um already has a higher density and is another form of development that is allowed in town and I'm good with that I I think that would be reasonable I mean especially the i' talk to a developer and see if that was something that was enough of an incentive to make a difference I mean does sound reasonable well I the developer for the new um 55 in over I I went to the planning board meeting in June I think it was and requested that one of the units be an affordable unit that's 30% um right which one talking about the new one it's eight units oh I'm sorry thinking of the one it's eight units and one of them be affordable and I was told that it wasn't worth it um that they it couldn't be developed for that uh the planning board had no interest in making it affordable um people from Boston are going to come and buy these I think that's the quote I said who's going to do it in town nobody body that lives in town will be buying those um and and um the word from the planning board also from one of the meetings I was at was that they are there to make things easier for the developer so where it's a good idea to maybe talk to a developer you have to talk to a developer who has um whose bottom line might not just be dollar signs right who might have the community in mind it's kind of a terrible thing to say yeah well you know it is hard because for the developer you know I mean they're in this business to make money they're this is their business right and it is it's hard to build affordable housing because everything's so expensive you know so so I don't know do you put it on the developer or do you although for something like this like if you say okay we'll give you this land and we're going to let you know give you these options to be denser or to have more units on this acreage you know maybe they would maybe they would go for it but that that's how I feel because otherwise without invoking the 55 and over bylaw for that property you get one house it's three acres you get one house and existing what and 6 adus well now but you know yeah one and um with the possibility of fighting and it's it's just all kind of I mean I think we need a philosophy in this town of are we or are we not interested in affordability for the residents of the town are we or are we not um because what I see from the planning board is we are not so um where I I back in the 80s I agreed with the percent you know we were giving a gift with an open space preservation development or a multif family you could you didn't need two acres or three acres you could do it on one acre you know right and and so you get more houses right but build a ball field for us or you know or you have to keep some of it open for whatever yeah um but but this is in place because the town voted down the bylaw with the affordable units back in 1987 88 time frame that was voted down and this was the well you know we can do it this way if you ask the developer they're going to say no because the bottom line is they are it's a business and they are there to make money so how does the town develop affordable housing what is our philosophy as a town so I that kind of Segway to the CPA we're not there yet right um no we're not there yet we come back that but anyway so I think an affordable housing density bonus that's inclusion Arizon 10% or you pay a certain amount you know into the and you there's I'm sure there's some way to figure out what that me is I mean I'm certainly not prepared to say what that would be but something into the affordable housing trust for development of affordable housing um so this is something that the trust is interested in because obviously this is a much bigger conversation right and something that we're going to have to think through but if this is something we want to pursue um I can finish doing more of my research because I've only looked at a few different towns in their um zoning bylaws which have inclusionary zoning and then um we can come together agree on you know what we like and bring it to uh the planning board and have a joint meeting to sort of say okay we've done the research we've figured out you know what we think would work we understand that you know the NBTA you felt that the MBTA bylaw was not the place to have this how about we beef up what we have and make it so that it is more um useful for the town I guess to get affordable housing right yeah that sounds that sounds a good idea I think I'd be oned um yeah you think what do you think yeah think I know I think it sounds good but I would get rid of the 30% that's scary yeah I think 30% there is too high I do I mean for us because we are developing that's one thing but for something like this I'm good with 10% if you don't do that you will never get your 10 you'll NE I'm not even talking about that hous index anymore what what good is it doesn't apply here yeah you got not a thing but there has to be something yeah so um all these things boy oh boy I think yeah I'm on board are you do we need a motion for this or I don't know do we probably more clearcut if you have a motion otherwise I can just okay I move that we um I guess my motion would be to um have Aaron take a look at wording for an inclusionary um bylaw for um the the zoning that allows for greater density than two and three acres in similar communities or I I think maybe what we should do is as you suggest take a look at some of the other towns and what they have I mean I just jot it down quickly Gren because I because I know they must have something going on over there with this new devel clemer Fitchburg I know Dunstable has inclusion okay I mean I know I think take a look at that and let's revisit this next next meeting and then make the motion because I think there's really nothing that a motion to direct Aon to to look into beefing that up do we need to do a motion you don't have to okay then we okay okay but you'll you'll look into similar towns let look into that and then and then let's revisit this and then and then we can talk I think too that when you bring like for instance I have Hadley Mass right here when you bring um other places like this and say we're not the only towns trying to do this I think that it really helps push that you know this is something that um as a as a as a state because I did something the bylaws it's the zoning bylaws zoning bylaws are section 145 okay yeah so it's part three which is the zoning by law I can I can send you um I can share this section with you guys oh okay all right all right just um um because it just take a while to try to find it in there if I don't know where I know I I I struggle with that anyways my computer I'm I'm in trouble with my computer I think I need a new computer but um but yeah that would be awesome if you could thank you thank you all right that's 2.7 the discussion on affordability all right um the next one is uh Comm back to 2.6 um the community preservation Act is on the ballot for November it is um yes the petition was turned in WoW it'll be a valid question um we are we the towns and affordable housing trust together with um the recreation the recreation committee um commission and I think they asked they asked someone else to join us for this um presentation the we are hosting um the affordable house and trust is somewhere here I have the paperbook over here I turned this in this should be um for for hosting it in uh the hall here Memorial Hall the only thing is I am not going to be able to be present because I will not be in the stat oh that's great so I need to ask if one of you could attend um to be the TT representative for the community clation and Bill ride out is chairing committee I've gone to the committee meetings the past couple of them for CPA yeah and there will be signs coming guess next Monday is the next CPA meeting but you don't you just need to be there on the 26th um and so that I can tell Bill who yeah I could be um I maybe um because I I have a my day it's m in towns I don't know if I'm going to get back um so let me yeah let me I I I could be a maybe I don't know Dave if you are I have to talk to B I'm not sure yeah maybe yeah I could be maybe I probably can I just have to yeah so it it would be good if someone from the Housing Trust was there was there yeah yeah um a little better than the last presentation you have to be present I know right I know I'm a little gun shy I'm busy that night yeah yeah we had to there there rules for we serving the hall and so anyway and it is in our fiveyear plan to advocate for the community preservation I know I mean I yeah so way I know all right so that's that for that bill is doing the um uh Bill write out is doing the presentation you won't have to speak you just have to be know um and uh there is a a business person I think from Shirley who's going to you know talk about how how they benefit and I think they might be trying to get someone else peppol has the community preservation act so oh that's a good idea so um who what was the what was the town that you sent that they had they had a whole list of things that they did was that peppol or gron or gron has received Millions was it gr remember you sent us something that they kind of bullet pointed look we got this and this and this and this hey but anyway I gave Bill everything and he's he's doing the PowerPoint yeah yeah I mean it's such a no-brainer that it it is mindling to me it's just a mindset of people who just feel doll or more no yeah and they don't think long term they don't think about the benefit of the community and Heth family in a positive way it's just another dollar no and that's the mindset right and then there's this total misunderstanding about what it will really actually cost somebody in terms of you know the value of their house and their taxes and what what it's actually going to cost and what the benefit is is it's so enormous compared to what you're putting out you know so give up a couple of dinners or a few bottles of beer or wine or whatever that's all it's going to cost you yeah no you I I think to a lot of people it kind of it's almost like they're punitive like and not only am I saying no it's because I don't want anybody else to have anything either I don't know about that I don't get that part I get the idea that you know you know it's it's the government the the government's always taking more and more and more now you know what a general no it's not even I'm G to think about this and have a dialogue understand it and then maybe I can constructively tell you why it's no it's just no I don't like I don't like the idea of you reaching out my pocket anymore I know it's it's kind of crazy just yeah I just know like with the schools and and the the comments on the override people are like why should I pay for that kid to play sports after school I don't care if there's no Sports yeah like why do we need a library we don't need a library we have we have computers we have the internet why do we need a library yeah you know so it's kind of I don't know and then by the way that was an argument that went on for a while for the library oh yeah oh my God I was involved libr you were a library trust I had I thought I was going to be T and Fe Town Hall that was 20 years ago but but see now you look back and you go look at all and how great it is and the kids that grew up in this town with the library as it is yeah are so much better off and and it's it's yeah the people it's just humans are just very short-term thinkers I that one of the big things for the library because it's funny I was thinking about this one of the arguments was like you know this whole if you build it they'll come is is that's not even gonna work because everyone everyone G to have computers and no one's gonna be going to libraries that library is so busy but now I get concerned because people are like why don't you just close the library for a couple of days a week so we canra pickup I'm like oh my God I don't know why I pay taxes for trash pickup I have plenty of land I could just dig a hole be careful with that D I'm talking me moving on so that's CPA so you know let me know I'll let you know yeah yeah so yeah I actually I I thought I was going to Boston and it's not it's the next week so me yeah they still put me in as a maybe but and you know like maybe we'll show up you can I got talk to yeah yeah so anyway it's 7 p.m. and it's uh it's and it's gonna be taped on that night okay good you just want to know how is it being promoted so that people will know that it's happening um Facebook pages they actually bill has already put out once on Facebook pages about this presentation you when they dedicated the rail trail I think they spoke about I think he got up and spoke about it yeah he may have so it'll be out on more just Town Facebook pages and then um there are signs that are going to be put up um more vote signs there won't be something stuffed in in everybody's mailbox or it's not that's not going to happen we talked about that too much money um it's it is a lot of money um so I don't know the exact result on that yet maybe they can put you know the the electronic the electronic billboard that sits out in the street and one at the common there's another one you know up by the ice cream place that wouldn't be a bad thing to advertise presentation um just in case people start there is another meeting here at 3 oh okay um I don't know if we're going to get kicked out or if Sabrina said she might move them downstairs to meeting room too I don't know okay but come in and let us know let let me finish here because we're almost to the executive session the financial reports um did you guys all get that I think so I didn't open it I just I'm sure we had a little bit more is there anything else to say on that Aon no I'm I'm still waiting for some more information okay uh any announcements from what what's the maybe I missed it in the beginning so where are we at with the for stre just I he he's reviewing it yes they're reviewing it right now and when how long ago did you have that last conversation with emailed me today saying I'm going to review it because I emailed saying hi haven't heard from you oh good okay all right so it's still in play it's just we're just a year out from where we thought all right well like I there was a mandatory referral firm form that was sent about let me pull up what the property is um I did not think that necessarily affected you all um three Ryan um it's for an accessory dwelling unit um so I did not think that that would necessarily affect um the trust but I figure I'd let you know I can send it around if you'd like to take a look at it and see if you would want to provide comment but since it's not an affordable unit yeah um and it's just somebody adding an Adu to their home um I figure I would just uh let you all know that it is happening and if you'd like I can send you the M story referral form okay put on three Ryan Road yes okay yeah I don't know to read I know I don't I mean yeah do you want to look at it do you want to look at it probably not I okay I mean I don't I don't know I don't think there's anything in it there's nothing in it though I mean they're in the same neighborhood as as our land but um but it's not I don't think it's anything that right that we have to yeah yeah I can share this really quick the uh the meeting on the 12th is that a zoom meeting or is that here how's that working um that the 12th is the joint with um and that I think it's here and soon okay so you'll send a link out we'll know yes yeah okay um this is the proposed Adu so it's just oh let's see that looks kind of nice between the house and the so where the Adu is the addition yes proposed Edition huh is it actually connected to the house I looks like it is so that's like in-law or something that's what I was thinking yeah that looks like is it an in-law thing ISU doesn't have to be freestanding it can be connected um is that it this is the layout of it yes so that's 900 square feet roughly uh yes although I think ours is actually 800 square feet I say 800 right now yes yeah okay wait this whole thing that's that's not the Adu unit is that the house um this is the Adu I believe so the garage is probably separate garage doesn't count because it's not it's not a living space not heated whatever so it looks like it's 28 by some other amount it's a nice little Adu you're not kind in the sun room it's it's a it's a little rectang it's a little square that's I know I think so CU this oh first floor new construction um um kitchen [Music] living I think that's the Adu I don't know I can't see I think this is the Adu or is this this existing deck so maybe they're just adding it into here yeah well see the top the sun room that was that was in the the other one here yeah so that's probably it yeah so I think this is probably the is there a bedroom there's no bedroom is there anything else that can't be right there's something that's can't be right yeah where's the original went with the I'll just that for okay so the proposed addition is behind the garage right that one yeah to this what it currently is yeah yeah so there's adding it on here I guess yeah in that space so the sun room is will be next to the Adu that's the way it looks so it must just be coming off um yeah so the sun room is here so it's and this must be the garage so it's just coming off like that so we're looking at it sideways I guess this must be turned is there another this is another floor is it one floor this is all I think that's the house because this the garage is it and there's the sun room so it must be behind the garage it's like it's not on there I think there's another there there's another story that has to be I agree yeah plus if that's like 28 by that only looks like 400 square feet anyway 450 that's that's only half of it yeah yeah the other thing's just a manory referral form okay so interesting well we're knowing that all right okay all right so um were we going to I thought we were going to host the gentleman from the uh the ever expanding tree cting Miss property okay that's the executive session that's coming up so um we've talked about Let's uh we we've done all the correspondents we have a joint meeting on the 12th um we'll confirm our our meeting on the 16th after we meet next in executive session and we have a meeting scheduled for October 21st at one 21st yeah October 21st but perhaps September 16th but we'll talk about that in executive session okay so I need a motion I need someone to read what is there to move move into executive session and adjourn from executive session so we technically have to reopen the public meeting afterwards correct no we can adjourn from executive session yes so you want me to read this yes okay I move that I move that we going into um journ are we we're Jing our meeting first no no no our meeting is still open but we will obs so we will adjourn from executive session okay so I'm just going to read this right okay right s okay I make a motion that we for executive session pursuant to open meeting law 30A section 21 A3 to discuss strategy with respect to collective bargaining or litigation if an open meeting may have a detrimental effect on the bargaining or litigating position of the public body and the chair so declines declares do you want me to give the regarding yeah regarding 34 hannes Road property is there a and we will adjourn from and we will adjourn at the end of discussion from executive from executive section second all those in favor say I hi hi all right and with that um ly you may stop the recording um we we will be going into executive session thank you very much you're very welc and we'll adjourn from there