##VIDEO ID:fopCRONsiF4## i' like to call to order the uh Wednesday September 25th 2024 towns and Conservation Commission meeting at 7M can I have a roll call James D present James Gates present Pat present Kevin Smith present Kevin yes Allegiance the United States of America to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty Justice for All amen this meeting is being recorded is anyone else recording Chairman's additions and or deletions I do not have any time uh chair report um I attended the select board meeting last night and asked them about the current or what the status is for the um agent position crickets correct they have no plan to poost it um and why is that they can't tell they don't have an answer how difficult is they just they just they just don't at this time it's an index and a fun yeah right now you You've Got U you know some challenges in that so one of the challenges challenge I heard was our part of the uh conservation agents pay is from ARA funding which you have to spend that ARA funding on that line item which is a Federal yes funded say Federal Federal Federal so other words to a degree it's a mandated position no it's not mandated but the funding for it has to be from arpa has to be used for it but I'm under a misunderstanding we are supposed to be structured with certain people yeah x amount of members land use coord Ator and a field agent as a state would look and perceive it they want them implemented in no because there are towns that do not have that do not have agents so it's not a state requirement but we fund it it's it is it's not there's no requirement but it is a fun it's a line item in our budget it is funded so what's the problem if it's funded why aren't they doing that because we have to buy purple bags to put our rubish on that'll begin the whole process and explanation and that's $800,000 I'm gonna move this along but Pat has you know Pat is voicing that everyone here in this room is concerned and I said I have to answer to are my Commissioners they had no logical or legitimate reason of why it has not been posted so feel free to ask was that b even though there's only one select person who is ear Lea on that we haven't seen in six months regardless could you town that please that we have not seen hiot her hair of for six months spoke so shouldn't have been was me last time come it wasn't on the agenda and it it was a um something else that was discussed that I was there for and I just asked to vote okay I'm G ask to be at the meeting the next meeting then discuss well there is no scheduled next meeting until November yeah so either way I'm not going to get into that political side why did people complain because they couldn't find the purple bags or whatever I mean I had something just to have but either way I encourage everyone at this stable to write an email write a letter or come visit our town ad in I already come and spoken to everybody about it so I do have one question that has to do with that though are we still paying shs to pick it up then I mean don't well because we the purple bags and I'm like okay so is the town still paying them well of course they're paying them there that's going to rear its ugly head yeah that's going to it's ugly head I don't know how long you want to discuss this but that's a good point us yeah um yeah let's move on that's I am not about this above and beyond the trash bag thing which I have my own opinion on that is no reflection of anyone else at the state I understand that for we have we have a AAP position that is not being posted no one is answering and I can't be the only one that is poking I think maybe I'll do letters to each one there's only one flip and we only have one flip question right now that's all you got now oh that's wonderful wonderful and watch some of what's going on just to give you get if you want me to bring you up to speed we're D to fire right now as simple as that so any of these opinions are that at least when I'm speaking are my opinion and I would I didn't go last night I would have just not been probably going at the risk of that meeting being shorter than this one can I I'll make a I'll make a comment hi I'm back good someone we're still crying but I did what I could um I was told that once the BOS is back in action in mid November mid to late November that um the position would be posted oh so we have to no that's not the answer I got from the town admin or anyone else at that meeting last night okay then that has been my unofficial discussions I suppose but until that point you're stuck with me sorry we appreciate that you love for for doing this job as well but was a concern of mine she should be her Dean so they did approve someone helping but that's five hours a week in the meantime we'll keep Jess so she gets five extra hours she can work at the well no she doesn't I don't want to get into that she is being compensated five hours of all that what the the bre that a agent would yeah can I ask who Selman is on TES Teresa yes she you know who she is yes I know so who want oh no she's not up there oh no she's not listening me watching TV which my kids are all right can we move forward that's my CH report that Jim's niy tonight dad 1.6 review and approve meeting minutes from 911 did everyone have a chance to review yes yes Kevin yes yes I can I answer one second Jessica hello yes I'm here sorry okay okay um listen I did up uh actually more than a few of the last minutes that we had because I couldn't remember which one I end up fixing so I just went ahead and did them all and gave them to James so oh great okay okay thank you you're welcome and they're all CLI together lovely thank you so Motion in a second to approve meeting minutes from 911 motion to approve 91124 minutes of our meeting discussion roll call vote James BR yes James Gates yes Pat yes Kevin Smith yes 1.7 staff report sure sure this is from September 12th to the 25th um building permit sign offs for conservation for nor uh 14 Northend Road 36 westbow Estates Drive 83 Fitchburg Road 47 Maplewood and three Ryan Road we did a referral for the zba or last meeting for the three Ryan Road accessory apartment uh Board of Health interdepartmental sign off for 324 Main Street the completed approval is done after the last meeting was uh issuing a -2 determination of applicability for 46 Emory Road and a -3 determination of applicability for 30 Shirley Road um in applications in right now it's uh 22 sauna railroad noi is still incomplete we have a request for a COC at 21 Emory Road which you'll cover tonight and then at your next meeting we will cover an RDA for 21 sauna ro road um so just some quick compliance updates I did a preconstruction inspection to 94 Fitchburg road that was the remaining extension of the Town storm pipe into the Wetland buffer um and the owner actually just came in today saying that that work has been completed so we'll probably try to wrap that one up by your next meeting um um still have some outstanding compliance issues at 75 Pierce Road we still awaiting their plant survival count and then 187 Pierce Road um they had indicated recently that 59 of their 100 stems had survived and they need to have at least 75 so um I had reminded them that they need that golden number and have not heard back um miscellaneous stuff we're going to talk about your wild and Scenic Grant tonight um under a work session so I'll skip that and then upcoming site visits um I'll email SL call you guys soon too but next Wednesday morning starting at 10:00 a.m. we will meet over at Wallace Hill Road so I'll send addresses and project Scopes um in the next few days but next Wednesday from about 10: to 11:15 Please block off your calendars I'm sorry what was uh the number at walls Hill uh 153 I'll I'll send an email or a text to you guys yeah can you text me please my computer just died today can do after I printed stuff mine did too okay thank you all right James I think I printed out the um this report too so you can send around those addresses if you want but anyway that is all thank you thank you Jessica okay um thank you Jess 3.1 uh request for COC 21 Emory Road D number 30807 one um just that you uh not says s visit good issue uh replacement for yeah okay Jessica your your note says looks good yes yeah it was just septic sort of out on the out Outer 100 feet and it was a very very flat lot so yeah it's all been resta so I think we're good so I I make a motion to request certificate of compliance 21 M Road D number 308 0711 second I second that second roll call vote please James Dr yes James Gates yes J yes Kevin Smith yes 3.2 vote for officers can I motion we what what offices are we moving forward on chance all okay I'll motion Kevin Smith is vice chair I'll second thought James I vote you president you you have to motion to motion president I can no I can't accept that position oh sure look at the twinkl in your I'm gonna I'm gonna make a motion that Mr Dyan stays for another term as Vice chair I'm not Vice chair you're not VI no we do not have a we've been flying with our Ace I'm make a motion that Mr D I already did it first I you are Vice chair Kevin there's going to be a ceremony there's a suit and everything oh yeah really lot of a lot of important people are going to be so I thought that went incredibly smooth okay and do we next go with you to your position Jim made a motion um we like Kevin is vice chair and I second we had our banter uh so Jimmy will do a roll call vote starting with Jim James D yes James Gates yes P J all yes congratulations I think there was a little hesitation there Pat but I think you I feel better I've already been voted out so I'm not gonna vote is that allow Jessica Kevin didn't vote Kevin you can vote no but they would win anyway you got one thank you Jessica you have a chair to wait sorry truly for Mo a motion meeting minute purposes I do need Kevin to vote um on what yes I think unless you have to abstain when it's your your own vote I actually don't know can I AB you can no you can vote can I abstain I we have voted for ourselves I can't vote for myself right though I I must obain in any other election you can I'll be abstaining a lot this evening I can I think to be fair to be fair Kevin even if you voted no it's still three to one and the motion would pass anyway who knows that I I recognize that I've been beat up already so what's your what's your final call yes or no he already said yes yes he did okay I missed that all right got it I said no I said no earli I said no but it doesn't matter majority no no in the r call vote Kevin said yes oh I did thanks a lot okay so it's a so it's a unanimous yes got it okay now you have a chair and a clerk I I I make a motion to for Pat is you know admit that she wants it Jam story and oh you can go clerk just think you'll have your name right there it'll say Pat jalo clerk just like next week Kevin's is going to say Kevin Smith Vice chair I mean that's a position it's beautiful I'll my position over to you I'll do the clerk let's just get this done do we I nominate jimy for clerk uh James D for clerk is there a second I second that second roll call vote starting with Jim James Doran yes James Gates yes yes Kevin Smith yes I seemed a little reluctant you have a chair to nominate and vote for I motion that we bring James gates to chairperson of the town's Conservation Commission The Honorable chairman roll call votes Jimmy James D yes James Gates yes good is Kevin Kevin yes Kevin lost that too Kevin yes now here's the incentive we get another onto the commission we have to do this again that's good so to do it again technically supposed to and then once a year what we we we just need some good Downs people to give freely of their time for any of the boards in town any of the boards in town you know it's probably won't be this year anyway I'm sure people are too ril we don't have any purple bags you Jessica you can cross this off your list finally thank you so much I appreciate that have you been pinging on Jimmy about that Jessica well it's been on your agenda for months let's just say I got a Stern talk to last we passed it we've been passing it we've been passing it along for quite a while all right peace tonight I think it's outstanding uh plan for wild and Scenic Grant property surveys of uh 19 80 19- 80-0 4-20-1 and 49-7 uh for surveys and before I forget I have Jessica all the pap I can we have all papers to sign no this is the money we allotted the 10,000 well it's part of it it's part of it coming through now right and we're still looking at 13 okay hold on James had a question yes the forms form yes yes they're in there to sign they're coming to pick them up tomorrow um the grant you had a question uh we have $10,000 so far and we we just we just got the we just got the remaining 13 today actually I didn't get that email you may not be Aon got it this afternoon so and that's good our little Commission successfully you got 13,000 or 23,000,000 awesome that's going to go aways of getting some of those bounded so those three lots we have one uh quote from Meisner Bren uh Corporation to survey uh lot 19- 80-0 25.6 Acres established Corners with proper monuments in flag blaz lines is $111,000 um land survey for lot D four 4-20-1 35 Acres um established Corners with proper monuments and flag Blaze lines uh 9,000 and then uh land survey lot 4-19 D7 6 Acres established Corners with proper monuments and flag Blaze lines so this is $800 over our budget um so it's 23,800 total for these four properties is what we have for the grant going to have to have a chat with them that the last line item is to record the plans at the registry so I don't know if you guys actually want to do that or not so that would save you $2,000 but if not you you have line item for Professional Services in your budget as well did you get hold on hold on hold on that 23800 I don't think includes that I think it does how I was reading it8 well I'm gonna ask the same question did this go out to bid Jessica has the answer that to that no it does not it is an exemption from chapter 33 30b procurement um this the 23,800 total at the bottom does not include the boundary plan record so we would be 28 in excession that we'd have to come up we would have to be we would be 800 2800 no that is want to record that in the registry I'm just saying do we want to I don't see the need when it's bounded when it's when it's bounded bounds are there that I don't I don't see the need well I don't know I guess it's up to the whether the town wants to have milear down of the three of them because the acreage is certainly going to be different on those Parcels once they're survey well you're on the properties committee what you well it it's it's awful nice to have it done because of what it well because let's just say for example this Lot 19 80-0 11 Grand a survey it's x amount of Acres say they get a survey bigger P say 20 30 Acres sometimes they'll survey them they might come up with five extra Acres they might come up with five less Acres you know these surveys were done probably back in the 1800s you know a lot of times a lot of times not right his property's been sitting that long with okay who knows okay we you'd have to look at the registry of these you who knows how many times that Land Is transfer end too probably only transferred end maybe a couple times several times God only knows you know the best thing to do was get a recorded plan and have a my record can they I I would I would think it would be prudent for the town to try to get another estimate estimate other than just Jeff brm or you know just because right other guys that have worked on work I I think whether or not it's excluded it's excluded from it or not it's still not a bad idea to get at least get one more see where they're at I think that's standard operating procedure for anything when we have we're working with $23,000 we worked h four on a grand stand and reality AB immediately but we really want to spend 25,800 no we really want to spend $15,000 $23,000 have everything done and pl recorded right or even that's what I mean or less and I I almost believe that it's possible to do that I you to where's Curt me are out of gentlemen says to do you have any thoughts on some place down there Jessica what are your we your input okay Jimmy but at the same I I would I mean I support if you guys want to get some more proposals that's fine um you are not required to this is a surveying and other you know sometimes other Engineering Services are exempt from needing to procure or solicit proposals um I would ask though that Autumn had first reached out to this company so in the absence of a staff um if you guys are interested in getting more seeking more proposals that is a tasks that I would request that someone on the commission takes on please um but I think it's fine to look for competitive proposals thank you Jessica I I have to agree with Kevin in in the regards of that it's see $23,000 we're limited to the F ABB to the to the number we're limited to the we're we're limited to that dollar amount we want to see what we can we want to see if we can get the most out of that dollar amount any any this is a business we have to look at it and run it that way I think if prudent the way I look at it three I'd say we get several more estimates a little bit it's you know three it's a standard procedure isn't it Kevin when you go out to bid you usually go for three bids and see who's going to do the best work who's coming up with the best numbers who's got it we've been using the same subs for 40 years so you know it's a different situation most time you know we do we do that from time to time and I think the best way to handle this is is just to reach out to couple more surveyors and and uh an estimate to an estimate to do it we don't have more funds that we're going to be able to add to it because we're only getting 20 not any more this year hey but we can say it's not the town's money yeah we still would you know let's see how far we can make that allly same before I interrup I'm sorry no I'm just thinking where's the other money going to come from then because well yeah so we have that's why we have to shop it I think it's just a good standard Opera I'll reach out to reach out to find we'll get the information we we'll get the information justess get the information over to me well on those lots and we'll make a couple phone calls text me yeah text me your email or I'll get your email and I'll uh text just text me just text me I mean if we can get it for a lower number then we're going to get the same end result that extra money goes back into our carof well no so that's part of the thing you have to use the $23,000 that doesn't just get absorbed somewhere right now right now with 20 no no no 20 we're we're 2 if you include the boundary yeah we're we're we're ways off we're ways off from where we need to be to to to get that money to work work we need to get a little bit more work done for it simple and seems like uh with a couple of phone calls we ought to be able to do that you do James might be able to speak more to this than I can um you do within your budget I think don't fully take my word for it but I think you have some sort of conservation land fund don't you do we do and I think your like your WPA fund I think I'll have to see like what these can be used for but I I feel like you guys have some sort of fund that you can put toward Property Maintenance and Improvement mecc events and such I I I think we can just make a few phone calls and and get the pencil a little sharper to I don't have I don't have a I don't have a problem doing that and then the second action would be is if we can't find bid that's a little less we can do it all under the grant we I can talk to Katie and um and see where we can get the money from yeah worst case we got to get closer than where we're at Katie Kazan she's the town treasure or not treasure sorry the we just we just got to get a little closer than we're W that's that's a little heavy she she's the account okay okay so the course of action we want to take is well and I we're going to do a little or prices and see how far we can do you um next by next meeting maybe we can make a decision y just is that a good course of action for you yep that works I I'm just I think it interesting to see for the surveying for those three properties came out to $23,000 our grant amount was $23,000 23 yeah that's all well well you know andum came up with the guess put into the grant I'm just saying I think should we have been disagreed about the number that we got allotted so that number so you want to know the secret to this I I'm going to tell you the secret to this you know wait to hear when you do when you do public work the way you want to the easiest way to successfully bid something is to watch past meetings and to look at the documents available online because there's almost always a line item so is you go in that number was out there and once you have that you bid 10% under so you have a little bit of safety uh for when you above and beyond cost or unforeseen circumstances um and then you submit Bid And if you could do it like that and Works to your cost very simple way to be successful in the B so you answered my question it was a long way around it but that's the ACT that's the truth that's Jimmy got you guys guys are ening MERS many times doing it like that Y no I so I asked the question for a reason you you two answered it and I knew what the answer was I just wanted it to be verbed put out there if only they had done that for the sidewalk project they going up for the third time down in the hob okay right next one right Pat do you have anything you want to add to our banter you just aboring it all I'm just yeah so you got the gist of the whole point of yes where that number came up is to where he came up or the number interesting okay moving on moving on um and it's not just public from the town it's also natural River Watershed that public information he goes and he's got his so 3.4 planning board manatory referral one Depot Street Extension I must abstain okay from as I am one of the owners of that property um mandatory referral notice in accordance masteral Law chapter 48 subsection 91 the code of town towns Z bylaws 14542 site plan review special is that good on house okay sub section 14565 special permits and subsection 145 54.1 age restricted development towns and general byw 85 DP phase to storm water management and chapter 175 Article Five storm water um regulations the planning board will hold a public hearing on Monday October 24st 1 at 6:45 p.m. in the second Chambers or on Zoom to review the application for f Smith and kentell requesting a site plan review a res Development Special permit and a St Water Management permit proposed project involves construction of three residential duplex buildings and Associate paved access driveway drainage systems utility connections and their app [Music] perces you make fun of me for that later what is it I can't see what you're looking at you could do it either the property is located at one Depot Road Extension identified on the cessor map 51 block 56 lot Zer and is it in the ra Zone uh District Das claing board um any questions within 35 days please return um so jessco that [Music] says um not nothing in our jurisdiction correct correct half the property the back half is mapped as habitat but there is no um 200 Wetlands or flood plane for you I think it's like 400 Jimmy answer yeah all right um so I make a motion to isue no comment to this there a second I'll second that yes roll call vote starting with Jim James Ryan Yes James Gates yes Kevin Smith abstained it will be a nice location for such seems like it very much so could you tell me who seconded that motion please Jimmy Dori and did thanks um CBA referral notice uh for 324 Main Street Partners LLC 324 Main Street assess with map 50 Block 17 lot zero um copies available in land use Office the date of hearing is October 23rd 2024 6:35 p.m. virtual public hearing only link Mr chair abstain from that project as well for that also apure 10 um the applicant is proposing renovations to pre-existing non- conforming structures by renovating and reconstruction an existing vacant gas station and convenience store located at 324 Main Street m 50 Block 17 lot Zer the project includes reconstruction providing a new commercial building containing a convenience s second floor office space and a coffee shop with drive- through service the old Speedway we need another coffee shop reconstruction of a new pump station canopy is providing eight fuel fueling positions on kin uh eight fueling position positions along with 24 Mark parking spaces and a new design location property is in the R3 zoning district and the aquer protection overlay District um my note says it's non jurisdictional yeah that's will they be selling purple bags that's all I care about here we go purple bags are you selling cof at the one I don't believe we'll be selling coffee there either what is the um what's the acreage overview on that I have no idea I can't recall is it two actually actually can't recall the plans in my truck moot I just had a brief question to it that's all that's all what's your question eight pumps right it'll be eight pumps yes okay I think it's about one and a half or 1.75 Acres I think I did the map the other day Okay I sounds right just I have remember the gas station two less it was one there for 50 years mhm moving forward progress in town we're getting there the brick stor is open now everything's looking sunshine and butterflies right so um I make a motion to respond with no comment is there a second second that James G yes yes kin Smith OB [Music] St is there a date when that will be started are we in the infancies of it okay [Music] Rie we could get this done with us real keep it going 3.6 bylaw schedule review J um you had some things you pointed out to me and uh some things you and I talk about like phasing of projects yeah so recently we've just had some people come into the office or submit applications um that I don't really know how to interpret the fee schedule to best guide them um for example you know if it's a if it's a new sorry if it's a addition on an existing house does that count toward the existing single family house or one new house um obviously it sensibly falls under existing house but it's a new structure New Foundation so I might just recommend that we revisit the wording of the application type um to provide a little bit more clarity uh based based on what what you guys feels right um and then just something that we typically come back up about is sorry Ethan I'm talking that's my son has lemonade wants everyone to know um is that you know a notice of intent for an existing project or even a proposed project is $110 or $165 so the conservation hour rate the conservation agent hourly rate is $27 so just for easy math we'll round it down to $25 an hour so that thing that a conservation agent spends between four to five hours on an noi which in reality even me being three years seasoned in this you know you can spend between 50 to 20 15 to 20 hours easy on a pro an noi from application reviews site business it's prepping all the documents um doing compliance site visits and everything so I'm not saying we have to you know Bill out or or charge at 20 hours but um it is just something of a fee that you guys should consider in terms of revenue for the consom um and you know it's people that want to make improvements within the Wetland buffer who are primarily using the conservation agent services so um just things to consider if you would be interested in revisiting the numbers on the sheet I think I think we're going to have to yeah and I think we could just so the one question I had was what do surrounding towns get for rdas you know when we talked about this I meant to look it up and I never did I have not done that I think we can do pretty easily just combine the the residential the basic residential and farm what do we com some input from some of these other towns see what like couple of towns we working they're 250 we're 165 that yeah you know I mean uh and where are we what we maybe we need to be to be 250 and that's not I don't even know if that's enough based on the time that Jessica is spending you know the uh you know I'm not even sure 250 is enough well and we one thing we've always talked about is not shocking the system we mentally gone up but um I I agree with Kevin you know we can't do this without we need to put a notice in the newspaper public notice well but I think what we really should do is what we really should do is ask Jess if she has a chance sometime to reach out to town of Gren down lber we can coup see where see where they're at or look it up overall amount of people that are in that town what their commission would like get get some cross referencing I I hate to say it but I think we need a raise well you just heard it from Jessica that she can get hunkered in a lot of time on Enon and noi yeah not obviously not tended to make a profit but boy it be it could be nice if the town could cover some of the cost or at least make the shortfalls uh not so heavy because like you say she gets $10 or 10 hours into something like this that's she's 28 30 bucks an hour that's you call 300 bucks you know we get 110 bucks you know yeah you get a lot of handholding yeah we've experienced yeah it's noted yeah it'd be nice if the concom could at least cover some of their costs know I I agree I think you know we should be raising it you know she put a lot of hours and and you know try to do that and all the other work she has you know that that takes up just one day for doing one of those I mean yeah by done you e get a days work combined time I find it to be the same kind of a scenario that we're looking at let's look at some other towns see what they're doing before we jump get some more bids for that 23,000 make a couple comparables I think we just should have a couple comparables to look at yeah and then I think it' beas whatever hey you lunenberg our neighbors next door yeah gr Ash wouldn't be just Ash is you yeah I don't think that the population of of Ash is smaller you get down into the area you get to the per R too so you get a comparison of all them yeah Jessica did you follow along with that banter and or you drinking lemonade it was in a cute little cartoon cup too um no I'm following it and I'm I'm trying to find fee schedules on other websites right now and I just I'm having a very difficult time so they're hidden why we table till our next I think we we that was going to be the result anyways it's something we got start something to look at we can chase some we can chase a surveyor in the meantime sure inste but this I would like to get both of those put this pass out by next time you can do a comparison um just does that work I can take this as an action item okay yeah that's fine um I think I don't know like for certain in writing or anything but I want to say for example our building department pretty much sustains itself financially so um not that we should do the same or we we can do the same but maybe you could I don't know but I mean I I believe like last time we really checked it was like 2022 or 2023 and our revenue from application fees was like5 or $6,000 and a 32-hour conservation agent annual salary was like 40 like mid 40s thousand so like that's very insignificant ific in terms of Revenue versus costs so but you also have a build an inspector that see up there because I we don't even have a fulltime inspector right well that was back though either way think an action item I agree try to cover our cost Jes [Applause] so I'll take that with me I'm G to Jess I'm going to take the proposal also with me that's okay yes that's fine that's just a copy um so for the next meeting or move on uh 4.1 MACC fall conference you can keep that Jimmy uh fall conference is at devans October 19th 2024 full day water related workshops and CC fundamental courses key note speech from Beth Lambert uh director of the mass division of ecological restoration and plenty of networking opportunities what's her name again Beth what Lambert moving on next meeting we have uh discuss um survey proposals and then Fe schedules yeah yeah and you're going to be both of you will be poking around to see what the surveying prices can be yeah next meeting is Wednesday October 9th 20 in uh 23rd 2024 7 p.m. border Chambers second floor meeting will also be held uh on Zoom a motion toour at 752 thank you Jessica thanks Jessica I motion second I motion that we adjourn I already did oh yeah no Jimmy did go you can't second yet yeah I was just going to say you won't ask for a motion go ahead I'm sorry I mean just jump in the gun you should speak to him about it get it take G up so I can second it wants to be the vice chair he's got toar the pencil no no no I motion that we adjourn at 77 752 I'll second that now roll call vote James Jan yes James Gates yes yesi yes