I'd like to call to order the Wednesday May 8th 2024 towns and Conservation Commission meeting at 7:01 PM can I have a roll call please jenan James Gates Pat you mind Mee Us in the Pledge of Allegiance no I pledge allegiance to the flag United States I know was Kev on and yeah um this meeting is being recorded is anyone else reporting uh Chairman's additions Andor deletions um we are going to remove three or 2.3 and um push that to next week um because of a conflicts the O extension okay conflicts of interest Y and we are going to add 3.2 42 and 22 W metal Ru determination clarification that was what you text me shair report last night at town meeting we uh were successful in our warrant or $5,000 for Education um education public Outreach and training um for the Conservation Commission so that is that's big for for us um because we blew through our budget relatively quickly with just our day6 review approved meeting minutes from 410 424 copy in here I caught something when I oh yeah c [Music] [Music] uh excuse me would anyone like to uh screen share uh no we're all searly thank you right now um I can send it to you it was minor I don't think that was just 410 it was that so we do not have 424 no did everyone actually we'll move the for 10 minutes to the next meeting so that I can write down what we're not approving them tonight well there's a revision y yep yep looked at it in my email and so is everyone okay with us want to no V report [Music] 1.73 Jen yes okay my agent report covers April 24th to May 8th we had building permit sign offs for 22 Laurel Woods Drive and 43 Hayes Road um Board of interdepartmental signatures for 20 Main Street McDonald's and 187 North End Road 20 M I did a site visit to 66 Bayberry Hill Road for preconstruction and current requests are for an order of conditions extension at 132 Pierce Road and current nois are 65 Adams Road and 88 Meadow Road um we had an open space and recck plan was just submitted to EA on 424 um order conditions let's see violations there was a violation paid for 10812 Meadow Road the first violation was paid and he came into our office and noted that um he uses a PO Box system so that's why at the last meeting he hadn't paid the fine because he he didn't get the the notice from us for a few weeks after he checked his is that 108 West Meadow or Meadow Road West Meadow West meow and then I emailed unit till about sending over those MSDS MSDS chemical and what the data reports are on them so we know what they're putting down if there's questions ask and to let us know uh notify us before they're spraying so that we can post it on the website and notify people and then I also sent a letter on behalf of the conservation commission regarding a need for improving the permitting process for open space restoration and Trail work that we discussed the last meeting thank you um 77 um through the correspondence zba decision three-wheeler Road for your review attached please find a copy of the of a special permit granted by the zoning board of appeals at their meeting of April 17 2024 for continuing operations of the existing Earth exavation operation referenced above that is three wheel Road Assessor map uh 4 block 9 lo0 which Bo me [Music] yeah that's what we're talking about what Wheeler Road we aren't talking about it it was just a correspondence all right 4.2 monachus Regional Planning Commission mrpc GIS app creation for known concom Juris jurisdictional areas in Townsen um good afternoon we are excited to announce that our department is teaming with monachus regional Planning Commission for a GIS project for concom mrpc will generate one a map of the town which Out Lines known areas jurisdictional to concom from the list below and two provide a list of properties intersecting with any of these jurisdictional areas that can be utilized for education and Outreach most of areas within pound jurisdiction to go into a map what Linds and 100 foot buffers Burnal pools and 100 foot buffer intermittent streams Dash lines on USGS toos and 100t buffer perennial streams solid lines on USGS tacos and 200 foot Riverfront area buffer ponds open water with 100 foot buffer unless with 200 foot buffer from any Pond or lake which is 5,000 feet or larger in the area and has either an inlet or Outlet which is a ma perennial stream and a pond or lake of any size which has both an out Inlet and an outlet which are perennial streams then the five 100e fe uh flood plane and 100 foot buffer uh mrpc plans to use mass.gov public information such as DP hydro hydro oh my God I can't say it um hydrography uh FEMA flood hazard in USGS topographic quadrangles layers for this project was an exciting project and I look forward to presenting the deliverables to the commission later this month from Jess Jess do you have anything you want to add to that quick I don't um it's just an awesome email our awesome project that we have some mapping hours with mrpc on um so if you guys are sort of familiar with how our the zoning Maps throughout the building are they have you know different colors for the different zoning design designations and then um things like the aquafer protection overlay have a diagonal line hatching things like that so we're basically going to get a map that's very similar in that regard um that outlines all those areas that are jurisdictional to kcom so that it's a kind of an easier reference for our residents thank you good evening I need step up for a second um can you have AR read that one please oh there heyting 4.3 please oh uh not can I borrow your document there I just make one copy of the correspondence oh this is a technical memorandum from mrpc which summarizes efforts in cy23 regarding the compliance toward section 3A of the zoning act mandate this mandate requires MBTA communities to have at least one area zoned to allow for dense multif family housing so um please distribute this memo to boards and committees and do not hesitate to contact me so this is from Jessica um regarding the MBTA Community zoning within towns in so it goes in depth about that if anyone would like to read it or um has any questions about it you can reach out to Jessica or I and I can share this memorandum with you I apologize we had a c there done that a good many times over the years not complaining the security camera told me was an animal I couldn't believe it um hi sorry folks if I can chime in real quick Kevin if you can announce that you're here and what time please uh Kevin Smith present tardy at 7 710 710 I took care of the Pledge of Allegiance thank you for that you know it um put 2.3 back on that K here no we're gon have 2.3 back yes 714 um again thank you for reading that we're g move on to 2.1 notice 10 uh twb 20241 74 D number 30877 uh Dillis and Roy civil Design Group on behalf of Timothy s location 65 Adam project status the proposed project is for the several build single family home and utilities construction of a seic system work will take place within 100 fo buer Zone bordering V W on file with is have receiv received your number and your comments yes so last time we were here um commission asked me to make some changes and some additions we have put the inlet in the outlet of the existing CMP on here uh you'll see that the erosion control is the same along this stretch of driveway but these darker red lines and it's noted on the plans that uh this will be silk fence down to about here Waddles up to here and then the rest of this will be silk fence around as we talked about being the most susceptible areas to any anything blowing right all outside where the out buildings being torn correct they'll be all on the outside um we also and I added the detail for for that Sil fencing as well we also added a water man crossing in here um D's comments were talking about the replacement of this it is not going to be replaced it looks like it's in pretty good shape we're going to be going over that with the water made uh we're proposing an inch and a half Water Service Water Service rather over this uh layering it with sand and rigid foam okay over the top of that um for insulating obviously with the yeah because we're going to be less than five feet coming over this and Freeze from underneath right through the PIP and then from the top down so we're going to be you'll see the water main right in here and then we've got sand uh a couple layers of sand in between sandwiched in between the the rigid just to protect that so it won't freeze yeah Our intention is not to yeah and we're going to be not this is going to be 5T into the ground here but we're going to be less than 4et here about four just about four feet that's so so you think the cover has good longevity left yeah doesn't seem to be what is it concrete uh CMP okay and I mean again it's under 5T of driveway now so it's been weight protected all these years from traffic and all that so so that's all the better less disturbance at the bottom in that area exactly as long as it's not going to pose a problem with that waterline freezing y small line but then everything up there's good changing that to Sil fence that's a good idea up there as well because you get a little blowing stuff blowing when they're doing demo and we find that any of those areas that we the so is you know taller it usually catches any of that stuff you don't want blowing into the wetlands are blown into the neighbor property case up there well this all SLS this way so yeah whatever's going to happen is either going to go this way it's going to go down this way the prevailing winds always blow this way yeah or for death as far as as far as things blowing yeah that's good but all the work has been upgraded you're going to kind of sink all the heavier up above down here and Below yep as for the details so as reposter everything you know you mended it as we requested I don't um have anything to add Pat do you have anything no it looks good to me aumn looks like everything's there gave AUM a couple of revised copies today I think I sent her a PDF of the the change yesterday so y so what's your recommendation Autumn on this standard order conditions with any special conditions that we may suggest well special conditions are outlined on the plan and I think they were already talking about return yeah so Kevin you want to do what do you want me to do standard order of conditions all right back to right I'll motion that we do a standard order of conditions for delis Roy group we got to approve it approve approve the um motion to approve issue order issue order conditions need for that to pass for the address B number right going to do that next is that you're all set yeah just waiting for the rest of the sirens go [Laughter] by it's been a busy day for those boys all right um then I can do it yeah I'll um order standard orderable conditions um for 65 Adams Road D number 30877 twb 2024 d174 we have a second second okay we have a second second roll call vote please James Gran James Gates yes Kevin Smith yes yes thank you to seeck Kevin I sent you an email earlier for tomorrow yeah uh no I'll look at it yeah easy AUM did you have a print out um 5.1 Mac courses offered throughout May um no I didn't because they have their website and I put the link to the website because I think that's where the calendar is located and that's where you register okay so I want to keep that on the agenda moving forward for anyone that might be interested but um are we uh 6.0 item. we s 10 [Music] minutes items for discussion at the next meeting um volunteer opportunities and Outreach um is on there and then website updates organization forms and checklist AUM been working on forms to simplify um missions some help along with other forms we also uh I'd like to discuss um our regulations and the need for um a PE on signed a PE to sign the uh submitted plans the state does not require it on notice of tense I feel that we should um follow [Music] that their guidelines we can talk about it next meeting and we can't vote on it haveing and everything is there anything else there was one other thing we wanted to talk about next meeting um I'm not sure what the other thing is but the docum that I've the drafts of the documents that I've come up with are in there to share um noi check list so people come to me residents and they're learn they're wondering about the many questions about the N process the requirements so I have I think this is a great way to simplify things for the I hope so you know for the people when they come in butter checklist it does it gets overwhelming right and they don't know which way to turn so if you have any feedback you can write right on there and share it with me we talk about it next meeting and like you mention how some of the other towns format and put it together it's a lot more digestible so yes no we looked at that right before you came back and I remember s was part of that conversation one night it you look at lunenberg and they it's like a menu picture what you what you doing and then which is kind of what we were trying to follow um which is what more straight forward a che yeah it's a straight checklist of all the things they require on their plant [Music] um so it was I [Music] think fairly simplified as well I think that we had a lot of questions about the fees schedule as well people are not sure what category they fall on into so I assist with that a lot also just so you guys are aware so that's another thing if you feel that we need to adjust that yeah we can discuss that we did it we've done it the I think I know twice in the last two to three years and if it's going to make it easier for you make it easier for the general public um to understand it it really should go hand in hand better for them more understanding for them it's going to be less explanation needed coming from you it works in both both directions um so those are things that we were looking to discuss the other one um so to see how littleon presents there is when I go there I'll make it a note to see I I don't we're two minutes before 7:30 I three minutes we we all you want to run through one more no we pick through all the easy stuff I got [Music] it just talking uh 2.2 uh is 7:48 p.m. this appointment is for 7:30 we're going to start it now notice vent th and Wetland bylaw 2024 170 de number um you do not have a completed number yet um applicant is David schaer address is 88 Meadow Road you notice application is for replacement of a driveway cul within a resource area with impacts to land under water bordering vegetated weapons this is a after filing Mr Shaker is joining us and you don't mind talking to us about you had a representative from d yeah yeah D sto by uh three people from D sto by to take a look and um essentially David Wong who is in water the Waterway division they'll be uh doing a water quality certification um they now consider anything any excavation below the uh high water mark Cor High Watermark to be dredging which was a surprise um David who else was there was David Wong he had a an assistant and Alice Smith Alice Smith do you know Autumn who was um Alice Smith called me to invite us and that's all that's the only person I knew that would be there so it's nice that David was also present yeah and there was a intern i iist okay I can't remember name that's okay yeah and one the kids from the college okay so so uh David W was um interested in you know when the when the wash out occurred how much material was actually in the Stream and and whether or not any you know additional remedi for the the material that got washed out was required um and when he when he looked at it he he basically said well this will looks like it'll assimilate um so he wasn't it was very gravel yeah it wasn't silty it was no no no it was all sand and and small gravel yeah I it wasn't even silty silty stuff very granular so correct that's what they and it's the same fill material that they used to back fill around the foundation and but the problem was when on the bottom of the cul released you had this reservoir of non-cohesive sand that was washing out and know continued anytime there was a decent increase in flow we get more sand washing out it was uncontained there was no way to control at that point so okay so um what other feedback besides looking at the in terms of in in terms of um the um meeting the requirements for the water quality sir um I have to collect some uh samples for Grandin size to distribution which we're in the process of bringing GZA out to actually uh so he needs a sampling plan um that he can uh approve and then we'll collect the samples to keep that process moving forward um and to do a due diligence environmental due diligence review 75% of the of the contributary areas forested so we've got the north 40 farm at the top but looking at the massgis site all of the you know there are some gas stations that have had leaks and whatnot um along 119 you know not so so they want to try to measure see if they pick up on anything well what the you know what the concern as soon as you start talking about dredging um and dredge material disposal you know there's concern there's a concern with the back material is what you're saying no I think if I'm hearing this right there's a concern because you excavated below the mean seasonal high water mark correct yeah the annual high water mark is what so you cleaned out the that's about a half full Culvert so you you cleaned out the organic material that was obviously underneath there to get to a permeable structural base to put the pipe back on and in doing that he went below the elevations on now DP is saying that that's considered dredging yes to me well so when the original when the original Culver I thought I thought he established it wasn't dring trying to determine if it was no looks like something to learning that when we dig tesol every day when they when they when they put in the when they put in the original pipe I think they crossed the stream probably at the narrowest location you could the best place to do it back in those days yeah and driveway lined up everything's good and they simply laid the pipe down and back filled it with sand um to secure the pipe and then and then they put in a head wall um made out out of Boulders okay so um but with this annual high with this annual high water mark what did what it is is they even they even analyzed it on the gauge at um sanook River at gr okay where you know they they take measurements of flow and they take the highest flow of every year um over a 20-year period and then take an average of what was the highest flow recorded uh over a 20-year period and so now they know what the and they call that the annual high water elevation or a high water flow for this for the sanut river at gr okay and then um they also looked at okay what is the what is the typical stream width what is the typical stream depth and you know uh basic characteristics so but they're all trying to key on key in on what is this average annual um discharge value so that they can then use the average annual discharge flow as the reference point for determining whether or not you're Excavating or dredging okay so and that's how they it's yeah that's how it's defined okay we're here for a straightforward emergency condition no not it was for a cul to be replaced we identified that there was that the bottom this C had transpired it was roded loose materials flowed through it some of the turbidity went downstream it was identified we realized what the solution to it was to be to replace that CET in the same way it was when we started I don't understand where we've gotten to a point we we were talking about water verification 41 and and all these testings it's gotten to a point where it's dreading we brought in some of the main players with the D yeah look at the dredging volume it is so small I don't understand where the verbiage has come into this and why it's gotten to the point where I've gone up there for three s sidewalks for the most simplest project I've probably seen come to this board and it's gotten to a $4,500 fine we've got phenomenal information Mr sha that you've recruited and presented to us it's it's amazing you are very inep in it in in what's going on I have no idea why it has gotten to this point I I will say no more um well we certainly we certainly prevented the bad situation from getting worse and allowing it to go all sooner but there are stream Crossing standards in Massachusetts and um the only thing that was authorized by the Conservation Commission was basically put in the two foot diameter we didn't put a size on that I know it was a replacement and I considered I myself looked at it as an emergency because the elderly sit situation at your home bottom of the pipe was completely compromised could have Crush any time I looked at that shoot me if I'm I'm wrong I looked at it as you know all I could imagine is your mom his mom trying trying to get a fire truck over there getting an ambulance against the building and having a fire truck collapse the driveway and thees can't get we were concerned about you know what would happen in uh in the winter because we basically weren't driving over it you know we were parking above it and but then we'd have three vehicles parked above it and then you can't plow then you can't there's nowhere to put snow so we work Emergency Services has to have access to in any way possible have access to your home well real this in yeah let's reel it in because we the way we worded it was if you feel the need or feel that this is a true emergency to proceed and to back file um again those are two two or three month period between that statement and the work being done and then from then to receiving it was over a month um because we gave you a one month um window to file uh after it was installed so you have a 3-month window to file of paperwork and it was we didn't receive it for actually I think it was two months regardless um during that time you approved fines um we have to continue this tonight regardless because we do not have a file number um p number still of and it's been Autumn did talk to D today regarding this and they weren't ready to issue yeah they they hadn't reviewed it yet but she did run through the question it's under ruse which is holding up this GP number that and you're working on the water quality certificate as well yeah brought GC we brought on GCA um we had u d also requested a formal a more formal Wetland delineation we had um Wetland specialist come out and deline and that was really to again establish this annual high water mark elevation um along the along the stream channel and and I've read a lot of documentation since this began at any rate um it's an intermittent screen a lot of the indicators just don't exist so we needed someone more professional to be able to identify that no and that's fine um I agree with to me that this seems to have be been blown way out of proportion at this point as with the requirements um but we still end up botom would you mind sharing the delineation with the commission to receive it um a gentleman by the name of Matthew Maro did did the uh set all the the flags and uh he he tried to locate them using um kind of a rudimentary GPS system and he he sent me he sent me the flight but they they were nowhere close to being accurate um they were you know one was off by 30 feet and One Direction and it was just a hodge podge so was he a wetland I think he is I think he is certified as the Wetland delin meter he was utilized on another project on V pond so you're saying that maybe there was a just his points weren't accurate so you don't want to share them is that what you're saying well they they they weren't accurate okay um I because what what you could do is superimpose uh superimpose his points on top of uh the one foot Contours and they weren't they didn't J oh some of the flags that are deline delineating the mean annual high water Mark um were outside the Supreme Channel I mean they it just so answer question Autumn he doesn't feel comfortable based on well no that's GCA is going to come out with and get accuracy we're trying we're trying to get them accurately identif so when we do get them accurately we be happy that would be great we're gonna have them actually generate the jimm I don't GIS I'm sorry Mr sh keep going I just have a question did we originally ask for a delineation on this when with the or well guidelines of a replacement it would have to be red when there's no diff no work being done on the waterways there's no increase or decrease of the CIT size everything was replaced you have perfectly the same way it was there you have stream Crossing stand nothing changed and we requested the lineation so the way the only way that the feels that that stat is valid is if you're crossing a gas line a water line any sort of utility that you can't move that's what allows replacement but that's still limited notice of intent this because you don't have any gas or water lines going up be drive that's unfortunate the DP wants existing CS information I understand to uh the size appropriately and I think from what I gather the states using Mr schaer almost as an example to figure out some of these calculations on these smaller projects or collecting data so because he was replacing it it has to be upgraded to um stream Crossing standards so we're gonna we're gonna have G there's anyone else in the room that can word it better I missed anything please we gonna have GCA locate the flags that's okay so up um make sure that the delineation is done correctly um and uh we're we're going to have I've already I've forwarded them a copy of the notice of intent um but uh we're going to take a hard look at what was done and whether or not there's any other options and and and Alternatives now until they see actual installation and what the constraints are they wanted a a hard look at that so we broke it up into a two-phase effort they come out they they do all this background field work and make sure they get the flags in the right place do the mapping collect the samples to satisfy the you know the water quality start and then develop a detailed memo in terms of okay how do we move forward and what is the appropriate way of you know how how do we scope something out to to be able to move it forward so that's the process GCA do they have a time frame on when they can have I haven't gotten a date C yet no so we need to we we will continue this to future date I will get back to that part though um we'd like to discuss the fines um that are have totaled $4,500 um and we like to understand how we plan on um SLE up essentially because we have imp Pat I'm sorry if I check um so I'm G look Commissioners ask questions aumn um or just a feedback questions concerns statements and Mr Sher or we open to him so me we're going to get a $4,500 fine from this find any more object from this this man you know I've been a little Boyer but I've never seen anything escalate to this point it's embarrassing but there's also I know I know there's a beutal to the point I say too much no um just don't think it's right Kevin am I don't I don't I don't feel right about the the fine to Mr schaer based on what he's going [Music] through you know I I think in the beginning he tried to do everything right and I I don't know how the thing got so far out of out of hand well like I say I don't care what he he thinks I looked at this I based my uh concerns about an emergency in the beginning it's too bad it wasn't deemed an emergency I kind of thought it was I just feel that there's any way the board can get the shap or some relief for this uh Ian they through an awful lot and they knock done now that this is at at the state it's in now we have D involved soil that but now we're looking at something called dredging I'm just having a problem with that part of it you know uh I look at the whole thing as hey I I'm sorry that that it was not considered an emergency because I certainly thought it was I just piece the board to try to to to work with the Shapers in my opinion as one so even if something's deemed an emergency you still have to file in after the fact it was understood you time for not doing it I I understand the time is Mother's elb and situation and you know things kind of fall through the cracks I I just I I just uh I feel bad for the sh just and uh and and hopefully we can try to work collectively to try to help them along you know everything presented itself that it needed to be replaced um the visuals of it the inconvenience of parking and not riding over it not being trustworthy of it and this Kevin said it was an emergency so it needed to be done let's get this done well I think it it is a high fee you know like you said they have through a lot and um if there's any way we can somehow reduce some of that for them on all favor I had a question for Dave um you mentioned that it was winter time and that you had to park way far away from the house and it was icy or snowing was it the winter before you did the work um because I know you did the work like late summer fall time and I'm wondering the work was no when this when this when this occurred 14 you know the things that popped up immediately is okay we can't get an oil truck over there I need to find an oil delivery truck that has 125t hose most of them are 75 ft I was able to do that um just from a just from a safety standpoint you don't know how big a void and so we we weren't we weren't driving over it looking at look where my mom was and you know we actually tried to get her into hospice twice during the the fall because she was having a tough time um but getting her to doctor's appointments you going if we couldn't have the driveway plow it was going to be a problem um and it didn't get though it didn't it was fixed before it snow corre okay but that was we were looking I was just wondering what the time frame was when you noticed it um asked for the Emergency CT fixed it and then you know because we're in the I get a lot of residents that come to me and they're they're like I want to do this work I need help with the noi and and I'm here to help them I answer questions on the daily um it is a long process but I'm not quite sure the four months from you know November 14th was when you started the work to you know March 1st was the last ticket so I don't know I maybe would have came in and made an effort to to get this submitted and done in that time frame you also have yeah and you have two months prior from when the phone call was placed it was looked at had a meeting so just knowing how helpful Jessica is um with the noi with residents and me as well I would just hope that you would have came in sooner and got that help to submit it noted anything else I don't thank you um it it is unfortunate that it's gotten to this it has gone this far and part of get getting this far is now now the state is heavily involved in this partment M um heav for reasons that uh I know why but I don't know why it's when you run up the the rank at D they're gonna they're going to pay attention to to your name when it comes in so I don't I feel that our our fine is fair for what um what has transpired but I only one vote so we can Jimmy could you get I just have a question you introducing yourself sorry my name is Lind you know the did it doesn't sound like David did anything on purpose no no this was you know maybe it went later but I would think a finding a reason for finding would be somebody did some work on purpose they didn't file they didn't you know what I mean so we had requested him to we told him there was we weren't know to stop the work if he truly felt it was an emergency to proceed obviously safety is key I felt it was it was requested of him to file a notice after the fact um because we and I believe you even thought you were going going to be able to have it installed sooner between the window of us um discussing that originally to the window that pipe was installed was two months to on where you could file before the work was done then after the work was done was period of four months three months call three and a half months where um we did not receive but you guys reached out to him and asked him um yeah you know I just think you know I'm my background when I was on the commission I didn't like to give out times but it was always for someone who was you know really trying to again I'm only one vote and I'm only one vot for me and also for residents in town you know I just think it's um unreasonable because they're homeowners you know and and uh Kevin will tell you that I would mostly focus in on developers because they know better um and I also lastly I would say that David you know he was a conservation he was the chair for a very long time for a very long time and he knows his stuff and uh huh also would have known that you know they needed to be uh dealt with in some kind the time they pass yeah I was I mean what was going on in your life what was you know I'm looking I'm looking I'm trying to look through that lens yeah yeah to uh now with that said we we might be able to obtain some data out of this um which I'm a data person but we can the Commissioners are free to make a motion on the the fine if they see fit we can vote uh and then in terms of the notice of ATT have to continue it to do you want a month you want number well and I believe they're waiting on some data quality test for the water corre yeah uh delation I don't you know I have to do the grain size distribution there's there's stuff that has to get done um last I'm just thinking maybe submitted you vot to reduce the but I also know huh no that's a good point but I also know if to have that in the back of my head of oh my God I ow oh well the priming isn't continuing is it no no no no no no that stopped quite a while ago no we're not we're not that bad no reason that's a great idea just we we need a motion to continue I motion to continue can we do any more on that motion but where we go with the F and get this done it's up to you toiss you separate you want motions yes please first motion I will let's zero this fine out you know I don't like fines for what good is it no one gets anything out of it Mr schaer how much more money are you spending for all this the delineation all these other pots the the replacement on and on it goes I can't for a moment put a nickel on your shoulder you weren't prompt about it such is life nothing we can do I want to see this F needs to go away let's find a way to get this done well we can't make anything go faster let's so we have a motion on on the table motion on the table I'll second that motion I couldn't hear that that what was that I said no I don't have anything else he's old he can't it's almost shot um so we have motion on the table no discussion or we call vote please James GR in favor James Gates no Kev favor I you said what I'm V with Jim on this one so okay yes it makes it hard she has she has to listen to this yeah that g next motion to continue to what meeting what time what date Autumn is will we put that date on the calendar contingent by the EP number or our quality test coming back it's going to be all of the above right May 22nd is our next meeting and then after that it's it's the second yeah oh my God definitely never get it from d by that in two weeks is the next meeting May 2 May 2 get all this together so we can be done we don't know June is it's June 12th the following meeting Mr shaper what would you prefer I so June 12 with a question I I haven't been given a firm schedule from G okay do you have a contract with them I will have a contract tomorrow now in the is six weeks out why why don't we tentatively they um yeah they they had to modify it to address the last Friday and trying can weely keep it open to the last meeting in June June 26 or whatever that one is that might give him enough time when would that maybe give off time to GA the information and if not we Fair up David yeah so 26 question mark again someone make motion for June 26 Kevin turn I'll make a motion to um move that meeting yeah June 26 he's got some leg meeting contingent on contingent on him getting the information from uh DP file number and quity samp from GSS I would think you might review it before that time and if you make a motion to continue until then you should stick to that Mo so he doesn't have a signed contract once the signed contract is which hopefully tomorrow um you still have a window of six plus week or four call it four weeks for them to collect the data then it has to get then D DP isn't going to issue anything that's the water quality CT that Dave is working with d on I don't think that the D comments from this office are related to the 401 Water Quality C comments possibly but historically weti I we haven't issued order of conditions without water without the oh okay interesting right right I feel that's a that's a fair timeline to bump it off to at this point end of June end of June continue at that point yeah I'm going to try to I mean I'd like to get these Flags located I'd like to be able to you will fav the June 26 meeting yeah um I noted your concerns Pat do you have any issue no if you just keep us informed of you know what's happening what you know whatever letters or what you get you know so we know where this is all going um so we have a motion on table we have a second second roll call vote James Doran yes James Gates yes Smith yes J yes thank you Mr shaper thank you Mr schaper um 2.3 o extension request Eep 38- 0666 Jimmy you get to James Gate's abstaining from this conversation for 132 what the o yeah the O extension request on 132 p well no I didn't get any information on it I didn't know he was going to have to obain what do we got going on we just gonna just a request to extend it yep the application is in the yellow folder okay we hear at 7:45 o extension request 308 Z 666 Kelly the ship at this location 132 Pierce [Music] [Music] Road so do we know what the time it is going oh so the request the extension for three years y okay do we remember the original project at 132 Pierce Road I was going to ask for the refresher yep house replacement um the house is built they're now continuing I think exterior work um grading stone walls like that so it wasn't complete it was a rehab the bones were good was that was a new lot that was a new was a new lot and they they built a California style home on that lot okay and they've done some extensive landscaping and Grading and stone walls and Fountain ponds and all kinds of stuff I guess I understand they uh you know they need a little more time the weather hasn't been cooperating with all right but we're looking at three years for the extension is that acceptable to the commission I mean that's allowable to them but is there any reason above and beyond it's just because there is a lot that much work to be done there's a lot there's a lot to do there they filed two extensions already one one year a piece so I think the push now is to give them the time three years can't you done with it move on okay so I'm going to basically word it is to Grant the threeyear extension to 52223 present date to what would be the ending date of the extension 26 so would be 522 27 26 27 27 24 yep 27 okay we'll put Kevin you're going to end up having to do the motion on that I can't I'm five so it's right there 522 23 is just mat add it on was I'll make a motion to extend theit for Matthew fornier uh three-year extension the D file number 308 666 yeah at the address of 132 Pierce Road so that they can finish up their final stone walls landscaping and beautification to the lot would be a up until June of 2017 yep 52227 May what's May I'm sorry we got the five anyway a second on that second James bran yes yes Kevin Smith yes yes thank you are we making Jimmy look that no and the check has been processed already was it for 110 no it wasn't it's it's I just looked at the fee down below at the bottom right it said 110 um unless that was the submit okay you want to give that back to jimy so put it in the front [Music] on up 3.0 um 3.0 work session votes may be taken 3.1 stand is Project discussion for cons jurisdiction sterlite Main Street come on up and you can how you doing good how we good thank you I'm here for if you can believe it advice or input and just give you a heads up that we're going to be this is this is ster building on Main Street and this is the far as you're looking at it it's the far left side this part of the building is so's that the Southwest Southeast Corner Southeast side yeah it's across the part the parking lots over this a going yeah this is about ready to fall down this part of the it's in really bad shape and this is about 40,000 square ft the rail trail is here there a wetland on the other side of the rail trail the grading from the building was down then it goes back up to the rail trail this Wetland is probably 30 ft below that there's no habitat we'd like to do this with an RDA pardon me nope nope it's all on the other side literally on the border right there's a section that doesn't have habitat but then you go down towards Depo Street a little more and then there's like creep 200 section then it ends theyed in video that theyed the so that some species could access the the habitat line is on the is on the other side of theend here and then it picks up again here something crazy this this area is all it's all it's it's parking it's a building it's it's all Disturbed I think it fits perfectly to it under an RDA and they're looking to move this process along as quickly as possible because that building is really in pretty bad shape and we're we're getting uh an opinion from the building inspector that we don't need any other permits although that's not you guys jurisdiction but uh we don't think we trigger any of the other uh threshold for any other for any other permits so so this would be the only thing in our opinion that we need to do and we'd like to do it with an RDA and not do full noi because that's going to take two months yeah by the time safy concerns let's let's look at the impact of the wetlands let's look at the let's look at the big picture which AS stand stated it's an uphill gradient probably what 3 four feet in some section building up to the ra Trail yeah probably more like more than that Jimmy there's a you know there's a well I know it vares yeah so you know if you if I M when I mow the rail trail I'm mowing the rail trail I'm looking through the fence and I'm looking down at the down the building so everything is Downs sloped away from away from away from the rail trail back to the building is the building square foot increasing is there any increase in fill in that area it was mentioned it's going to be under a decrease is it going to be a little less size no the building is going to be the same size so it's going to maintain the same footprint same footprint okay no no increase in imp previous area nothing no no increase in any any impervious area any new pavement or anything like that the building is going to get taken down the the foundation is is trash so they got to put in a new foundation and then bring the building how many of that material is going to as you were saying how much material they're going to have to re um regrade the back they G have to take they have to excavate how much how much do they have to get down or they haven't done the core sample they haven't done that yet so there will be material that comes out but it's obviously going to be taken away and then new material will be brought in and put struct right in place stru but the elevations will will stay the same because this is all integral to the whole building so it's not going to go up or down because they Flor level is the same be the same everything stays the same so it's very much an existing replacement matter correct that's our opinion not a lot of deviation other than the material underneath that is the reason why it's s the other thing I point out this there's only a small portion of it that's actually even in the buffer zone I know just you should tiny little tiny little piece there so Jim's a little upset you use the orange magic Mar on so no so we used this this came from the rail raail right before the meeting started because you know to see what the impact was do you have an idea of what the square footage is footage is the buffer zone I don't if I had a yeah it's proba maybe 3 or 400 square feet that in in in and that's in the outer 50 foot yeah okay it's in the Jimmy the closest point is probably 75 feet and there's a fence there so it's not like they can get closer to the white ons there a there's a fence on this side and there's a guard rail on that side and it's also down there's absolutely no way anything could ever get and again we will discuss things disc whatever when when we submit the RDA we'll submit this again we'll show erosion control and and all I just wanted to rail trail either right no so Pat do you have no and I know Jessica warned us that D is pushing back on on rdas now but I think ultimately it's up to the board to make that call anyhow yeah yeah but uh I I see nothing here I don't either but I just it's the impact to the Wetland that's what we have to look at it's um we all know it would be impossible to for there to be any impact to the wetlands that's way over there because one you got the existing fence you Downs slope from you're down slope from the high point it's like there's a dam between the building and and the and the rail trail I I see and it's all uphill over here yeah there nothing it's it's a nothing and and you've got a major factor that that for some reason people maybe you got a safety Factor oh a major safety factor it's kind of like it's it's almost like the last cust the in my opinion but I would be interested in seeing where the water the where the groundwater lays in that area if if the foundation is changing maybe existing building is probably 30 feet lower I couldn't reach it with yeah is prob 30t lower than that building the reason for failure here in my is is most likely from the barrel Factory was here a huge multistory building yeah 100 years ago it burned and you know I'm sure there was probably Paths of that old building that were probably underneath this building and with all the construction that had happened in there and excavation throughout the 1800s when when The Fan company was doing their work and then the previous contractor uh that that did the original stuff in the 60s it's it's probably simply compromised needs to be taken out and the determinations on you know for the RDA the negative determination then an area that isn't just the buffer because we're in the riverfront area no we're not we're not in part no Riverfront no habitat it's just it's just wel buffer I it's the perfect like number three determination so all right thank that's all I want to know so we can get this done and filed so just just make a note of the Pandora fa because when they dig down into that we don't know what's going to be in there we don't know how deep they're going to have to go it's probably just burned organic matter that's what seemed to be around around the rest of the and all that could be a condition of right we found it when we put our storage buildings in from the buildings over there that burn we found it at the we found it at the shopping mall when we just did the septic repair that area that whole area down through the all as you know everybody's in hry get to get things moving and and this they do need to get this thing moving because it's I'm not going I'm I try to to steer this conversation into the you know in the uh correct direction you guys can go around the table and if you're the three of you agree on an RDA or noi other than that I'm not going to comment on this any further for myself as a cont correct so I don't have a problem at all I know one the site like I know it let's be cautious about placing that under the reason why it's being done for safety let's be careful need to be replaced it need to be replaced because it's falling right and it seems there's no groundwater issues there's no we know that the like you said it's looking at 30 foot elevation knows we're not in the riverfront area we're less than what 400 s feet in that particular minimal and yeah that's what I needed to know speak up know upset um no I understand what to say and you know you don't know until you do start getting and see if there's going to no problems but as long as it goes well you it's going to go and stuff and there is let's get this done kind of attitude there is okay there's a lot of ducks have to be lined up here to get this done suck do can I make a quick comment please thank you Jessica you don't mind um I just hi everyone um I guess Stan I just want to confirm and we don't have to do it right now but maybe tomorrow the square footage in the buffer I'm measuring quite a bit more than or 400 square feet but um otherwise just for the for the commissioner's knowledge and and I know that you know time is sensitive here we did talk at the staff level about um you know how much effort would go into needing to cut off utilities on the inside of the building building so that while they're doing you know interior work and demo is when if the commission had decided on an noi that whole application process could be ongoing so so interior work could still occur while an application is underway um it's I mean it's a pretty significant I I understand the gradient and everything it's it's just a pretty significant size project for an RDA which is typically used for you know above ground pools and sheds and decks so just for your consideration they also be house Lots as well Linda does anything have to um play into the fact that it's I think it's the aqua for overlay district there any permitting as I forget is it in the aqua is it what in the aquer orlay well and then there's the AC so it's it's I I think thank you Ronnie you're welcome look this stuff up yeah let's go over take a it is not in the AC it's not in the AC it's on the other AC is on the other side of the rail trail I'll check aquafer protection but um aquer protection is typically zba or Building Commissioner right and there's and there's no increase in any kind of impervious area so it wouldn't trigger any any thresholds water or anything okay panut remains as has always remained right there's no increase impervious espec especially in the the whole yes right I will it is in ground water for protection sorry there's no we're not you we're not increasing any impervious I'll look at if there's any regulations we trigger there address no that's the thing this is an in kind it's an in kind replacement yeah I think for aquafer protection if you um if you're doing Earth excavation if it's down four feet or something yeah Stan I'd have to look again too but um storm I think someone mentioned it storm water was is not triggered based on the information provided by the applicant so um right we we've formulated a letter that we're going to get U the building inspector to weigh in on site um storm water and site plan he's ultimately the one that's going to make that determination so and I think the the trigger for the excavation would be a permanent ex if they were just Excavating material and bringing it back in I that wouldn't be really a change in grade it would be if they were lowering the grade any significant that's how I've always understood that right those phrases um what you're activating but you're replacing there absolutely no gr changes look at that a house foundation would trigger it corre you're changing the great Chang the yeah that's right so and that doesn't logically that makes no sense no I was yeah it doesn't make sense how does that I think I I don't think it specifically says that but I think when you when you've done it as long as I have who uh you know you read you say a grade change of more than four feet you think you think of a permanent grade change not a temporary temporary I got you so it's not specifically stated that way that sure that's the intent all right it's always interesting little like that right thank you stany thank you Stanley thank you Jess have a good night thanks I or not think she she's probably listen I'm still here guys don't worry [Laughter] so 3.2 42 and 22 West met determination clarification Autumn this okay the last meeting there was A3 determination made for 42 and 22 West Meadow invasive species removal which is uh not correct in that um lock broke is a perennial stream therefore that's the riverfront area not a buffer zone so it's treated differently according to the wetlands protection act and the towns and wetlands by wws so we're going to go to a negative -2 or should I just throw my hands up in the air and quit and go to an noi or just let the invasives do what they want I suggest read number two out loud and see what you think option number two see not really familiar with what all the work do he's probably gonna be one of the first to pull it off hopefully be substainable but right negative determination number two says the work described in the in the request is within an area subject to jurisdiction under the ACT but will not remove fill dredge or alter that area therefore said work does not require the filing out the no of intent simple enough we're not dredging I mean we're the whole object of this is to get a handle on the invasives you know I know will it Brook long enough since I was a kid we're going to do the work when it's at a zero I mean lock BR I know I hope we're going to be lucky enough this year you know but even last year she went to a zero flow a couple of times so I mean with that being said doesn't matter I can still work under a negative to you know it's just what Bas are you taking up oh the bit of sweet we've got um with the floral in there we use a handgun blow it up blow just kidding no what we joking I had to be with that trying to lighten up were you thinking of a handgun right it's we've got trees now that are to a point where the vines are as large as my arm coming out of the ground and we can't even pull it out of the ground around with a back and a chain we grind it we have to cut it it's a grinding situ it keeps I mean I have that's where we have that's where we that's where we're going to be able to stay after it and go in with the Mowing and periodic cleaning and everything in Nashville River wat shed Association is also doing the planting along it but to answer your question no not yet we couldn't do prevent any of the seeds or cutting one of the special conditions was a turity c at Bridge cat going down the field all the trees in there I know it's horrible it's traumatic what it's done but we we just cleared five acres out though successful so autumn guide us on how we need to [Music] Kevin I guess I I'll go back and say to youor should I just go and refile do it under the noi restoration notice did I did I ruin that there is one yeah I know there's one for that sort of work there's also the abbreviated notice yeah that's up to you Jimmy I mean would the stream be altered the removal of the trees changing the water temperature however the trees are in inundated with The Bitter Sweet they're completely Tangled with this invasive that I I think if we went there and went to see if those trees were leaing out right now they may not be they may be but so the temperature of the stream maybe those trees May inhibit the growth or the space for the new trees that that are going to be planted there in the spring also so I don't know how hard is it to maintain that area with your brush hog if you're going through there and minimal amount maintaining it once it's cleared you know the so I want to think about the best way to protect the Wetland but also create an environment where these trees that are already permitted to be installed can grow and that area can hopefully not be inundated with invasives but all you know so that's I mean we like I said and you've seen it we did close to five acres opened up a beautiful Maples most of that was done by hand yeah yeah but at the same time I mean it's going to be by hand it's going to be by a m ude of different ways of removal of it but we're not going in so agressive and then there's also the agricultural side of things because you are in chapter 61 Kevin yeah makes it so hard for po Autumn Ty every two months or so I get told I have to tell everyone but we are working on the both I am in under agriculture forestry and 61 agriculture with an nrcs F plant so and they are feel the need that you want to to retract your RDA and file a notice intent so you're a little more covered and gives you more latitude that's that's your choice uh leave those inv bases there for another year they're just grow back more and they going to spread and right right I mean we're poised and ready to go and start I think I'm going to stay with the RDA but as it goes through maybe by the end can I still flip over into the noi so we can do a degree of armor erosion you file separate okay I'll do that I'll save with the RDA so I I'm going to make a motion to I don't have any of the numbers in front of me what's the gwb number for I didn't bring one it's 172 I believe I can look real quick and well I'm also putting in erosion control socks that was part of the yeah special conditions we're going to stop putting them next week so I may a motion to retract the RDA with a ne-3 determination for 42 and 2 West Meadow Road uh twb 20241 72 um for reasons stated previously do I have a second second R call vote James Gates yes Kevin Smith yes Pat Jamal yes James Doran yes James dor oh yeah I'm speaking for2 Jimmy you abstain from that vote Yes thank you all words um I'd like to uh make a motion to issue a -2 determination um for the project at 22 West meow Road and 42 West meow Road um twb 2024 172 with the special conditions um we don't have a copy of that do we right now last meeting yeah I I I have it written down it's in the 4222 West Meadow that was forol y I'll read it on right there note I got a note to determination with special conditions to install a turbidity curtain by the bridge um or at the bridge that will be cleaned and or replaced as needed Ando controls such as havales suls or Waddles to be used in areas um that are being worked on um even if the brook is at a zero flow when we do that particular removal I'll still put the screen in never mind put it in I I said anything bring that up only that in your conditions you I'm in danger yeah I'm the only that's iner no I'm only it's the only and I don't know if it'll screw up the project I don't know there is no habitat it's across the street at mcgoverns but not on your side you mean I don't have any habitat over on my property any know map habitat yes you br it's because they just built that new million Bridge right there now they can just bring this together bring this together it's 37 um so there's no for they just necessarily aren aware that the line is there there is definitely have on the other side of the road so just saying it might be good to put a condition to be alert and aware because you know it's an arbitrary line what what what kind of habitat is over on that side species it's Habitat it's considered priority habitats of R species estimated so I think that in there that anything that's found reloc an additional special condition no don't just no no no you just you just have to do a yes that's just a daily sweep Eternal sweep oh I do that anyway you laugh though he probably does we had the Bobcat three days ago on the on the wall at my phone so I'm not gonna reread everything already recorded we're going to just include a um a daily sweet for wildlife do that you always do that when a commissioner just want to say when a commissioner is involved in something it's important that you eyes you guys are welcome to comein you have anything you want to are you kidding there's so many voices it's hard to keep track of who saying L I hope we keep the good notes yeah just I don't anything I understand that's fine all so uh James Gates uh in favor Kevin Smith in favor Pat J favor yes I can't say anything I have to obain I learn better off okay so we are caught up with everything else um our next meeting is Wednesday May 22nd and June 12th at 7M I for put both dates in board select chamber second floor of the meeting will also be held virtual be a virtual Zoom remote in accordance with covid-19 City meeting guines can I have a motion to adjourn at 8:39 p.m. my motion to39 second James dant favor James Gates yes Kevin is it two say yes yes you can still say I I had some documents for you to sign