##VIDEO ID:yn5v3PpMtf4## like to call to order the Wednesday October 23rd 2024 counc Conservation Commission meeting at 7:01 p.m. May roll call vote please James Duran present James Gates Kevin Smith present to the flag United States of America the rep stand na indivisible jice all Jess oh gosh this meeting is being recorded is anyone else recording additions Chairman's additions and or deletions um and I add a 3.4 to discuss things forward chair report um anything I have should be covered in the staff report and approve meeting minutes from 10 924 did everyone have a chance yes yes motion a second motion to approve the minutes from 10 924 second jamesian yes James G yes yes 1.7 staff report hello hello um anyway um all right good evening um real quick before we start is it still like 85 degrees in that room 81 81 nice so as much as tempted as you are as tempted as you are to turn on the air conditioner don't because that's actually how that all started because it's already been switched over to heat so it goes into overdrive apparently since someone switched on the AC so I'd go turn that off because it seems like B based on your faces something's already happened so it'll get even hotter if you turn the AC on so it was 90 it was 96 in there earlier so okay was going down but windows windows are good just close them before you leave please exactly thank you no bats all right I'll forget so I got it I will make sure they close thank you all right um staff report from October 10th to the 23rd um pretty light the building permit sign offs were done for 40 Gilchrist Road and 40 Wheeler Road the referrals completed actually at your last meeting um all three for the planning board for 22 Main Street 18 Main Street and 249 Main Street um after the last meeting you issued the or or I I issued the negative3 determination of applicability for 21 sauna rro the tree cutting we have a bunch of applications in right now oh my gosh my cats sorry bunch of applications in right now um the noi for 22 SAA Road road is still incomplete but I know that is getting worked on and wrapped up soon the noi for 153 Wallace Hill Road that was opened at your last meeting and it's going to be continued to your next meeting on November 13th um I just contact the horse paddocks yep uhuh and the stream Crossing um so I actually just emailed the applicant a few minutes ago seeing if he was open to a site visit on November 6th which is the Wednesday preceding that meeting so we'll keep you guys posted on that um we have the noi for 18 Main Street which is the hearing will be opened in about 10 minutes for that um and then just today we got an noi in for one Brown Road that's a single family residential project so that hearing will be opened on November 13th and we also have a site visit for November 6th before that um compliance stuff nothing new to report on your since your last meeting and then finally last but not least I'd wanted to let you guys know that next week will be my last week in Townsend we're still sharing tear oh oh you already know okay well anyway so I think that's what our our 3.4 discussion will will sort of revolve around not me but moving forward a plan you're not gonna be in town anymore sounds like you're we're moving to Hawaii yeah no I wish please but Jessica on a lighter note we we me and Jimmy and Kevin and Pat we discussed this between ourselves and we we kind of like came up with the decision you can't we can't you it might be easier for the kids and you really had your hot set on the time off and stuff but yeah but it's been denied yeah that's that was some of what we said denied yes got it so I mean no worries then Then I then I resend what I just said so appreciate that we didn't mean to be hard about that but yeah we really came up with it we we don't want you to leave so thank you for working with us you know yes thank you guys for all your the time that you volunteer couldn't do it without you well we couldn't be where we are now without your efforts greatly appreciated definitely would be in trouble i' not com anyway so that's all I had for tonight but yeah I'll be I'll be around till next the end of next Wednesday so um happy to catch up more offline about anything St hold it up until the meeting's stick a chair suck it up you're right Jessica it was proba it'll be 92 in here a few minutes no Jessica we still love you when Pat get here are you gonna tell her through the owl too that you're leaving or gonna whisper because I know she's not going to be happy and like I said I haven't told that yet so see um was there any building permits Jessica yeah I start with that yeah 40 Gilchrist was I forget what that was that was a few weeks ago but they didn't have any Wetlands down there and then 40 wheeler was like a pool or something but they're way up on the hill super far away from I think it's Willard Brook down there along yeah 40s up beond Mrs forman's Beyond forsman there's no yeah there's no Wetland up there that's in the High Country it is that's the High Country high mountains I'm surprised it's not snowing up there um we have five minutes before uh so our first hearing jump down to 3.1 request for certificate of compliance 94 fishburg Road D number 30807 15 is that for the cber pipe which one was that again next to that over 55 over 55 building that uh oh Culver okay the drainage extension yes 94 fitzburg okay 94 FB that yes was lengthening lengthening 40 into the Wetland Jess is there anything it's all done stabilized yeah it's good looks good I actually looked at it yeah price I'm going to get five okay um so Jessica was there anything no it looked good I took a a walking tour of it everything looked good it was pretty stable um so I recommend issuance of the COC make a motion to issue a completed order of conditions D number 30875 second second sorry can you reword that you said approve the order of condition that's not it sorry no okay yeah sorry uh approve the completed order of conditions what was do number on that approve a completed certificate of compliance oh wow okay completed COC C I make a motion to strike that all that the record so move see I told him we'd be in trouble Without You J see already falling apart so I on your agenda yet just the thoughts of reling terrible okay somebody somebody second please motion for Co to issue the coc for 94 Fitchburg Road De number um 30 D 7107 I had that right second second James yes James yes kevi yes man embarassing only Wednesday I did today half the day and I didn't enjoy it y to get how to eat up to minutes almost time to put the other one up I'll provide an update um the the prop the proposals from Dillis and Roy for the survey of the three properties those were signed by Our Town Administrator and sent back to Dillis and Roy so they have been officially authorized to to proceed with the work and we had full complete funds for all three to be completed with something left over yep cool nice that worked out well hey Jesse you ready for me to Fumble this totally SC up confence is high all right um cash in it no like to make a motion to uh open the hearing for 18 Main Street twb 20241 194 just we got the DP number yet we did right here D number 308-7707 17077 0715 was the other one amazing twoing us 716 did you get that I got that and the Scooby Snacks announcement yes both are going into the record C happy Halloween I love you P if you were here you could have one too I'll say some well maybe not maybe not listen to that Jimmy all right motion to open that is applicants keypoint Partners LLC representative is Lucas environmental LLC project status Redevelopment of a building to install a Starbucks and Associated infrastructure within the 100t buffer of bordering vegetated Wetlands this is Leed to be a Starbucks in the previous Santander B we have to finish uh do I have a second second roll call vote please James Darian yes James Gates yes Smith yes yes um pursuant to the Massachusetts WPA and towns and bylaws the towns and comcom will be holding we'll hold the public hearing on Wednesday October 23rd 2024 at approximately 7:15 p.m. the hearing will be held uh via zoom in inperson town hall on a noi file with conom by ke Point Partners LLC the property is located at 18 Main Street cessors map 41 partial 4 the proposed project uh involves the demo of an existing commercial building and construction of a standalone Starbucks restaurant drive to is taking it down um it was there there are associated improvements to the parking lot and storm water management system proposed portions of the work all or located within the 100 foot buffer zone to bordering vegetated weapons parties wishing to speak in support of or in opposition to this application may do so at the meeting or in writing prior to the meeting probably over the application are available for at Town Hall during business hours thank you Jessica did you get a chance to look at the butters yes and they all uh added up they look good so yes on all the green cards yes nice one more question this is a tear down and a complete rebuild no it's a renovation renovation um that was a mistake okay um so if you don't mind introducing yourself who you're representing and who you're with um and then you can yeah present project uh good evening for the record my name is Tom ly professional scientist from environmental um as you noted um here representing uh Keystone Partners LLC um EXC me key Point Partners excuse me um joining us via Zoom is Alicia bone from uh key point and here with me tonight is Waki from RJ con associate they of the design engineer uh for the project um so I'd like to start off with some existing conditions um show you where the wet ones are we'll get into the proposed design and and uh answer any questions you might have um I'm sure most of you are familiar with the site um we had a site walk uh last week um and we walked over the areas uh Main Street is to the north TR east to west uh existing AIS driveways located here um the existing bank which is vacant that will be uh redeveloped is located here um there's obviously a large detention Basin um just north of this uh structure uh which drains through a uh series of metals um drains down through a lengthy drain pipe and discharges to the Wetland system to the sou here so um and and Jessica and EP a question about the Basin of whether it would be regulated um BBW weapon resource area uh we dug up some of the old design plans for the project back from the 80s um which showed uh the T the Basin being rided out and was uh depicted as a proposed storm water detention Basin um it's been maintained regularly through the years and they mow it at least annually um so given that we feel that it should be considered a detention Bas and and not a typical ww that would be an natur occurring we because I think we did mention at the meeting we recall that having been put in by one which was never there and it was originally put in for set use right and then and so I believe I think it was you who told me the um Basin used to drain down through this Channel and continued off to the South um and they must have plugged that up because the Wetland ends right here now way and then yeah the 100t buffer zone extends onto just barely this little s here in the existing parking lot otherwise this W systems up to the East and the South and drains um that new rail trail down watered and you're only on the upside of the parking lot very small area how many square feet in the 100 foot buffer around 400 420 I thought no more than five minimal so it's really that just off to the edge of the park of the of the existing asphal correct correct so by two minutes work is well outside buer but we'll go over all the Environmental Protection measures to make sure it's not um an adverse effect or construction so we have uh this is the gr and utility uh plan that's included with the plan set um under propos conditions again here's that large St water basin um this will be a 2,470 foot uh Starbucks building with two drive-throughs uh traffic will be routed around the building this way um in addition there'll be some uh significant improvements to the parking area and some regrading um a lot of that asphalt that there's now will be converted to Green space um there'll be new catch basins here any of the pitches or greeting of the drive areas that you're redoing changing it all are we pitching it towards the building or towards the Wetland uh if I may for a record Steve with audre o Associates principal with audre o Connell as Tom mentioned with the civil engineers on a project uh short answer is yes there's some minor tweaks of those grades but it's really just to capture some of these some of this drainage specifically driving drainage along the edge of the curb here away from the drive-thru and then we're driving drainage down to this area where there's already a catch Bas we're sort of pushing it over so that we can now put a treatment unit in a man hole in a catch Bas with a sump in the light to improve water quality finally we added an additional catch Basin down here simply because we were isolating this with these with these so you're upgrading if anything water control your drainage Etc that's right by virtue of adding the catch basins we have uh deep sumps now in the catch Basin hoods and uh finally it gets channeled through a a treatment unit uh which obviously helps CL you know clean water before this CH don't let you don't you water correct exactly so with you know obviously Kevin's got far more knowledge of this that is good to see we're we're working the water better we're filtering it better so whatever move you are making it is a betterment which is good okay yes so so in terms of uh this fully meets the storm water Master stor water standards for redevelopment projects um we're coming away with improvements both in heat coil and water quality through the additions of the water quality treatment that Steve just mentioned and the reduction of prus site wide um there's a reduction of approximately 600 6,795 and then with the buffer zone okay because it's a small area to begin very small yes yes and then so we also included in the noi this will requireed a Nifty Swift with EPA um we included an operation and maintenance plan and a long-term pollution prevention plan that outlines uh maintenance requirements and and schedules and everything like that so um we did get four or five comments from the EP last week we submitted we prepared a response subed electronically to Jessica yesterday and uh Steve handed in hard copies um and so could do you have a car you're going to say the same thing on well so there's poppies in the packet they gave us unless they have on what the D comments were the six well I was going to ask him to review them with us yes I have them right here awesome he's on point awesome um just want to sure so their first comment um and I can I can hand this off to you guys after if you could yeah and this doesn't have all the attachments with it that's in your your pack in page correct um so their first comment pertains to the storm water basin specifically uh the upland states is a larged uh maintain stor management basement located Northeast the site the provide proof of Maintenance demonstrate this feutures not area subject to protection and that's exactly what we went through um not only this meaning but we talked about a lot is it and so we just include a reference to those old design plans and uh so feel like address that comment um they had questions about the TSS removal worksheets that are included in the stor Water Report um they wanted just some updates to those uh TSS sheets um which we provided and then they wanted a discussion on recharge usually in a typical project you need to recharge whatever groundwater is lost however when you have a project with a reduction in purus you typ we don't have to do that so we just outline thatly yeah because you reduce you reduce the payment area so you incre existing you increase the recharge significant recharge y um they ask for snow storage areas to be depicted on the plans and so we in the on M plan that was submitted we revised one of the figures so that'll demonstrate what snow will not be pushed into any of the Wetland areas right so this W offsite to begin with but I think maybe one of their concerns is also not just launching it into the storm water basin well that's the other concern that I had I was concerned about the increase of activity in that area with coffee cups straws all this other material that that's where they've been putting it for years Jim I know as well as down around the backside it's even closer to the to the W Jessica kind of squared me on you know that's well off the back of Haner yeah off end the far end right so so with the Starbucks you with the increase in we identified on the on the sheet that this any snow the Starbucks place in SK par me if I'm wrong but in the new LA area in island so um and that's outlined in the on M plan as well that was submitted um um and then so they overloaded call easy and then uh DP States the commission may incorporate longterm plan as a special condition order conditions that approv so it seems like they're suggesting to the commission that you reference the onm plan specifically in the order of conditions that's how I interpreted that so they give us a little EV on that sorry they give us a little bit of Leverage on that or input to our concerns and what we would like see implemented Etc in our next meeting this plan doesn't get kind of lost reference specifically in order and you guys have you know enforcement capabilities with conditions that was pretty much it that was what we that's just the cover letter with um what we submitted yesterday attachments are so that that's the general overview um if you happy answer them otherwise um and I want to speak for Jessica she's she's emailed me a couple questions I think we we have everything resolved um this is going to planning board but given the The Limited work in the buffer zone in the jurisdictional area um you know unless you have any outstanding questions or comments might right and that that there's a tiny little wedge that's in in our jurisdiction six you say it's under 600 feet or under 500 under 500 right here just this little little sver right there look like a good yeah a thorough nice presentation um I mean I feel it was good job nice job I didn't have a chance to attend s but I know everyone did dry sight Jimmy yeah um any concerns or I'm already I'm I'm good um J said would um input um it was I mean Jim brought it up at the site visit and then I kind of talked him off the ledge and then today I was thinking more about it so sorry Jim but about the so how your bylaw is written and I'm not looking at it so it's not verbatim but it basically means that things in your jur ition include you know stuff that discharges to a resource area so what I was getting clarification on from the applicants team today was where exactly that storm water basin discharges to and maybe I missed that just because I can't actually see the plans that you're pointing to but it literally discharges into the Wetland so therefore you know to a certain extent the what goes in what's being discharged from that that detention Basin is something that you guys do need to to think about and so we're talking about the snow which I agree I think the snow is always plowed like right there behind the um the drive-thru line I think part of the reason is because it's been vacant for so long the contract that building's been vacant they stuff it all in that corner yeah so um but I mean it it seems like with the TSS and the the storm water standards and everything that the water that we'll be discharging is is being treated as best as it can be um but but just something else to include that's you know under your consideration for jurisdiction in discussion but as he had said and Kevin could probably better explain it they're increasing storm water treatment where it flows from etc etc so everything they've done they've increased the water capturing of it gotten it away from the Wetland diverted it treated it and treating it got mans so and I love going down the snow stuff because with snow you have salt puding and rubbish that's the other thing that yes um salt um chlorides every street towns is salted I understand that Bri and rock it's not being there's no Brian put down here um if they put Brian there would are you referring to what's going on the highway right on the other side of the ejection Basin correct yeah well and that's a different that's a different animal contract the contractor that's maintaining that site will use not is not using R using just no but they should not that's a different discussion yeah but so being mindful of where we put Snow on you know not just on pavement but also um grass you know if if the grade is or if it's an island the water's going to shut off it's going to th every day refreeze every night and then they're going to have to Salt it every morning yeah um sometimes it's better to pile the snow right next to a catch Basin so it's a shorter distance for it to run not doing we used follow ice control every night um and it also allows for trash pickup at the end of the season and sand pickup if they use sand which I hope they don't use any sort of sand there because of too much nobody it'll be just too much drin now well some guys still use sand love it so that that has to be in U taken into consideration I review the with the snow location is it you guys see where the snow locations were y just where the snow proposed snow sort has added to the plan but been added to the uh to the figure that Tom mentioned in the M okay but there you know the snow PL back here um well you can't put it here you got a guard rail uh I'm sorry push from this side that's one area in the past yeah it had been gathered here but as was pointed out you know this was a vacant operation now they're going for to keep the word clear for that reason so you know as you mentioned going to end up down yeah down here where it can where it can these catch Bas to your point about getting treated so as it melts there a chance to go through these catch here unfortunately you know this one's at a drive lane and I I'm just stting the storm water line we you know being mindful of the C locations because you know water could get trapped here depending on however you have it gred but regardless going that wayy store snow there because you got a sidewalk yeah right so we've created a bowl in here so that water can drain down into this by the way which is an existing Bowl currently yeah and so we're sort of aiming for that uh to try to utilize modifications but you know the intent would be to make sure that the snow can melt off go through those and basically get treated and captured by the CT exactly and like Jimmy was saying it will be good to be able to wherever the snow was built up and caught either they'll be rubers clean up or so and that's the thing you know they do it in the spr they usually got guys right in there yeah back that Park and as part of the operations and me agreement so there's a couple things going on here with with this sort of re refurbishment of this building the operations of maintenance agreement that's part of the storm water management requires now that they obviously do maintenance and the maintenance would include pickup of Refuge trash out of this Basin area right in addition to the street sweeping and the like and then finally you know Starbucks is going to have their own staff of course walking around and making sure that the buildings not an eyes saw where in the past you know yeah debris may have blown to that corner and there's nothing happening there so um we think that those several measures that was sort of locked into as part of the uh omm would help keep just a clean area you know and those were my concerns it's taken a drastic change from a bank operation to this operation the amount of input people cars etc etc yeah is increase on that front but they've done a good job putting it together so and you can also look at again I'm walking the line here when was the last time those catch basins were backed or cleaned well that's probably better than maintenance agreement with allall that would that would be the LLC overseeing the big the big the property management comp or the yeah yeah part part of the Improvement of the system that that's part of the problems you know if you look at these old centers right they they they're designed I'm sure you've all worked on they designed where you have cat Bas and Cat bases they don't have a sum because you're just blowing Sim through so any sand that's ever been in this par blowing in the weather you know that's that changes now because we're going to have those structures probably were right in this time when they changed it to went from like a two foot sump to a 4 foot sump that was that's not that old those probably have sumps in them uh potentially but the the issue with the you know and why we've gotten away from doing the catch Bas the catch Bas is because the water blowing through that catch Basin causes keep up so with those offline we can start that no the overall big picture of it what you doing with the water treatment where it's being moved from Etc ET is a betterment well it's got the hoods baffles yeah and it's already been as he just explained they're going to have a stronger overview of cleanup etc etc due to the change of usage really educated really good thank you yeah I just want to note again I can't see like what you're pointing to but in terms of plowing near the catch basins so near them but not on top of them right yeah okay don't a flooding problem of course only for opening the skaing ring um yes you've been quiet tonight just listening do you have questions concerns um observations that you want well are are we going to look into the catch basins to see or are they going to you know to see how they're upgrade they're going to be all right they're going upgrade they already set St and designed on the pl no you're asking maintenance wise no well I mean have they been cleaned or do they need cleaning now before this all begins or well they're going to be completely over overworked they're going to be clean they're going to be upgraded and that little portion um what that little portion of the parking lot you you had a yes you're probably going to clean you're probably going to go through and clean the existing structures well within B of that that P so anyways I would imagine I want to hear though from them they're going actually if somebody's going to do that before just guys I think I think someone from the property management team wants to speak to this thanks Jess hi hi everyone this is Alicia from Key Point Partners um I I can answer the catch Basin questions so we um we clean the Bas twice a year um so we do them in the spring we do them in the fall we'll do these catch basins kind of after all the leaves fall so you know end of this month somewhere between now like the first week of December so we so we hit the basins twice a year so you work for the maintenance you man I do I do we rep we I'm I'm from keypoint Partners awesome this is that's a very helpful piece right now for sure I got I gota ask are you guys do you have any plans on repaving that parking lot anytime soon yes so part of that so we did some um extensive work um about I don't know we finished it about about a week week and a half ago um and then we'll go into a couple different phases of Paving we did one phase in front of if you're looking at hanford's hanford's to the right um the SEC up through that the entrance um on the what I call the lower level the second phase will come with and Steve can point out the second phase will come along with the Starbucks uh retrofit for this o santand building and then the third phase will be kind of what I call like the rear to the upper parking lot so we're going to finish the lower lot first and then move to the upper part parking lot that's kind of why you saw the work that we did this year just to make everything weathertight and then we went and restriped thank you Alicia you're welcome questions nice job yeah yeah I was just curious did that answer your question yes it did eloquently if anything I yeah right on point so Jimmy do you have anything you want to add I've already said enough this is pretty straightforward Kevin up Jessica J only that I I know we're talking a lot about storm water too and just letting you know that the planning board um this this is also considered a major storm water management project in the land use office so planning board is also reviewing a an application entirely dedicated to the storm water management system and and its operation and maintenance into perpetuity so um that is underway and I believe one of the uh options that they're going to choose is to have a peer review of all the work as well too so it will it will sort of get double checked as well so um actually triple checked I guess you guys planning board and a peer review so um if you do have more concerns about sort of those fine details you are of course more than welcome to attend the planning board public hearing for this in early November so okay so this is still going to go on under the scrutiny of the planning board the storm water management that's it correct the planning board and then from there they're going to bring in a second party to do the review yes that's correct we were contacted by Beth about uh initiating that and that in fact what I dropped off to you earlier was a check to for that process so that the pay review would start and it two or three week process and once the peir review will be able to address any comments should there be any of our storm match everything up get all the comments together move forward outstanding for the planning more effort in the water department as well nice I think so just a standard order of conditions with a special condition uh that mentions the operator operations and management PL with STM water operation maintenance um yeah that works I did not draft the paperwork for tonight sorry so I'll have to chase you guys for signatures another time well you've been busy um so I make motion that we issue a standard order of conditions with a special condition to mention um to the operation and maintenance plan of storm water um for 18 Main Street twb 20241 194 D number 38- 0717 um before anyone or if someone wants to second second second for discussion I forgot to ask before I made the mention so it's outlined isn't it with your silk control and everything oh yeah I don't have the plan here but it's in the plan set a robust erosion control we usually you know talk about it sometimes in depth sometimes not um I I didn't bring the specific plan but no that's it's in our it's in our planet we're okay and I know you guys went through it on your site so yes um I thought that was pretty much that was behind us I just want to make sure it is on record that it you're very thorough and professional I appreciate you that second uh roll call vote please James D yes James Gates yes Kevin Smith yes patal yes thank you gentlemen thank you outstanding presentation well articulated make a motion to close the uh hearing for et Main Street uh TWP 224-1 194 D number 308 0717 at 7:48 p.m. second it K second it roll call vote James yes James Gates yes yes it wasn't too bad it was smooth thank you you much you two okay thanks put them in the box it is a little war up there I got tell you no no don't wor we're here for you we should have we had knowing now about the heat issue I would have had you set up over there so they shut off the bill for the air conditioning is turn you have to I know winter here they've changed things around just took my AC out yeah I mean it is almost Halloween what I just took my take you thanks for coming to towns um thanks for it is 750 2.2 volunteer response form to fill vacancy on concom with a term ending June 30th 2026 seat J what happened to all the chairs in here they were there earlier I don't know there's only four at the big table oh there were more earlier I don't know sorry Mike make sure you get right in front of the tree the best place to sit we it's been so long I don't remember how we do this let the other Commissioners open the discussion or you can said tell us why you would like to well I think I have a lot to offer I've got a strong science background um right now my thing is wild flowers I'm in the process of uh writing Mike Pet's Wildflower book a pecka away at that it might take me longer than I live to finish it but at any rate I'm working at it it's one of those uh Journeys not necessarily the destination and I'm having a good time on the journey I you know I'm familiar with the the the wetlands area uh that we were talking about uh I so I I think I do have some perspectives to offer but I will admit that I'll have to um f i mean I understand what you were talking about at a certain level but I don't have the expertise that you did in talking about drainage basin and all that stuff so I'll be care about conservation you care about the we on yeah that means a lot and where you where you reside uh in particular in this town is very sensitive area remarkably beautiful area and you know you've uh Chown in your recent uh comings to the board that you really care about conservation as to how you're pursuing your project and that means a lot and like Kevin said you're in a one of towns and National Treasures so I'm sure you understand that and oh yeah it it's you know that's why we do what we do it's for our environment it's for our Wetlands it's for it's to keep towns in moving in good direction in our environment if you're on board with that let's make a motion to give him a raise and put them on the payroll do you have anything you want to add Com or ask questions no not really any thoughts we kind of feel like we know him pretty well he's been here enough tonight well what stood out to me was the quick on the flight thinking on how we were gonna resolve that issue erosion on that Hillside made sense I get on my hands and knees every day waiting for those little right I think this morning somewhere somewhere til tilting up it looked like maybe they were setting some Roots down in there I hope water they already cut the trees out and everything that's all done already no the grass no I got to grow the grass first I had to reflect back to the meeting I was getting way ahead of myself I apologize um so we beet twice a month uh Second and four normally twice a month but we do actually November and December this year we're running a little short which is good once a month site visits I'm actually kind of looking forward to the site visits I think that'll be an interesting so we have site visits we try to schedule them typically Wednesday sometimes we have to it can vary um than Thursdays uh usually mornings well yeah yeah I yeah I can't and I mean one of my questions I don't know if this is the right time for it's like so there are two site visits on November 6 I mean how are they how do I learn will I learn about them you're going to go to the site is itd how will that be communicated yeah right right so uh through the meetings like we just did no typically an email is sent out okay right right now it's Jessica but we do and then we also will you know there will also be text messages um there's no way for getting to kind of bounce around and we're not all perfect we all forget we yes right right we both have him and I both have a responsibilities working where we have to work and sometimes it makes it difficult for us thank God we've been Jimmy and Pat pack up it's all volunteer yeah you know it's 100% volunteer so you know I I I don't want to scare you away or anything we have the right so we have because this has been posted uh for longer than 30 days as a commission we have the right to appoint you with a simple vote tonight and okay majority and then what you have to do is get sworn in by the town clerk um cath she'll explain to you the requirements they have to do there's some um conflict of interest stuff you have to complete okay um and then um MC the Massachusetts Association of conspiration Commissioners offer trainings um with a schedule that you can look up on their website we will give um them your name and email address and they'll contact you with how to set up an account and then they have different class offerings where you can expand okay and Jessica mentioned that in fact that I thought tomorrow are you there J she's there she's you know what you gave me here let me do that you you made me feel guilty so I'm here the headless horsemen yeah I had some questions about what is it Mac and the class work and all that oh the one thing I did print out what you had sent me except for the regulations from the state yeah those are I was ready to press the print button and it said 248 pages and I do we have copies of that or how do how do you work that you just sort of check things as you need to or is this for for what specific yes we we check on as review pieces as we um have to deal with them um because there is a lot of stuff that is associated with the coast salt Mar really apply to us um so I believe we have at least a copy in the office um but you you individually don't have copies you just refer to the website when you need to no we we rely on Jessica inter I like I mean I like the the electronic version because you know if I'm looking for a certain word I can just search for it rather than flipping through 300 Pages um but each I mean it it's pretty organized it's very daunting to look at it but it is pretty organized um in that it's broken down ultimately sort of by process and procedure is sort of the first of the three sections and then the second section is all the coastal stuff that's not applicable to us and then the third section is all the different jurisdictional areas so there's you know there's a wetland category there's a stream category there's a flood plane category and under each of those categories is sort of a definition of it why it's important why it's valuable to the environment um and then sort of what is allowable what's not allowable and it explains sort of the permanent process per each of those so you know if you were looking at a project that is exclusively going to be impacting a bordering vegetated Wetland then you can just go to that section which is only a few pages so um it it does narrow it down pretty quickly I got I have a ton of books MC water soils lot of lot of stuff she's got a pleth in the office too so the classes they the town pays for them yeah um they pay mhcc directly so there isn't a reimbursement um we uh unless if something's changed but it uh yeah you can take all the education you want okay it is they do have requirements to be a be certified um which are on their website which have so many um credits and you can do it through a combination of courses of St mandatory courses and electives yeah and it's kind of nice to go to the Mac classes it either St anlon or wherever I think they're at Fort De for you get to meet a lot of nice a lot of interesting people from all the the surrounding towns but there is huge amount of people you know everything else you name it Birds Aon all the different entities that there's a lot to it you know so you you will enjoy it okay and there is somebody else there like you oh boy J Kevin's picking on I mean really see you just got the thingy Kevin un acceptable strike one okay oh so I make a motion I'm going to make the motion that we appoint Mike pot said pot said uh to fill a vacancy with a term ending June 30th 2026 second that James bran yes James Gates yes Kevin Smith yes Pat G yes nice thank you very much thank you sir you happy to get sworn in okay I have I have to either me or Sabrina I'm not sure we have to actually issue a formal appointment letter and then he takes that to the clerk so I if if I can do that um I will do that tomorrow but I'm not sure if it has to be me or Sabrina technically on behalf of the BOS so I will find that out seems the BOS didn't appoint I know that's what I just I don't know that if that just automatically means that a a staff person of kcom can then issue an appointment letter or not I've just never done it so I don't know can I ask the question what we do not have a BOS no that's why Sabrina can do it she can do the yeah nighting well no we just kned all right but it's not I don't know this is an administ come to the round table until he finishes getting yes get War so all right and it's usually the selectman are the yes it is the Selectmen are the board that will approve or disapprove of him no we just appointed him right because still has are you sure yes Jessica trust him yes it's in our Charter if there's a an for an appointed board if the V if there is a vacancy that has been posted for greater than 30 days which this one has been then you know said board shall the charters written so that that board shall I have no idea Our Town manager told me got appointed I had to be appointed by this uh I don't remember how it work yes you did got appointed to the Historical Society because it was an excession of x amount of time and they approved him that night so Bing where we've appointed y m and now the formal document has to be submm and he has to go down and see with the after which which Jessica may be able to do for you tomorrow even if yeah we'll try okay you I'm G to just ask two silly questions do you text message I do okay with M or Jimmy don't stop don't stop you're lucky if you get a I've been really making some head wise your email you check regularly yeah okay that's all I care about I don't respond to this I don't either no I don't I don't that's fine Jessica's Amica right Jessica sends it to my phone it makes it so much easier Jessica were you hoping I could could learn how to use a computer by now smile goodbye to that am I allowed to say no comment yeah never mind we can't let you go look at that smile a thanks so um yeah our next meeting is November 13th yeah do you want to 7 o' he can come to our he's actually he's got to getn in first so yeah but that doesn't mean he can't come to the next two sidewalks whether or not he is or he isn't sidewalk um would be a good good exp wouldn't it it's two weeks away so he should be SW should beautiful but yes you're I I agree with you so I'm going to move on it is 805 3.2 uh request for determination of clickability 76 spker Hill Road twb 20 24-1 uh 195 Appliance Jesse Chamberlain project is a request for a status of a stream at the rear of the property to be overturned and changed from a maap unnamed perennial stream to an intermittent stream Jesse Chamberlain is here uh to present to us and I'll present to you we got tell us what you doing all the facts and I apologize I didn't make it to the sidewalks the only one this year I missed we were commenting about that huh that you did not make it to the site counting backing actually Jesse I G to read the legal notice pursuant to the mass WPA and towns Wetland bylaws uh towns and KC will hold a work session on Wednesday October 23rd 2024 24 during their 7 PM meeting the work session will be held via Zoom at and in person at Town Hall on a RDA filed with concom by Jesse Chamberlain the property is located at 76 Parker Hill Road Sor map 20 parcel one lot 6 the proposed project is for the request for the status of the stream at the rear of the property to be overturned and changed from a mapped unnamed perennial stream to an in and stream par wishing to speak in support of or in opposition to this application may do so at the meeting or writing prior to the meeting um Kevin where is this back I know I'm back where is it near Benjamin Benny Newton's old house up up top of the hill for the up up it' be the old um yeah it's on the left it's it's one of the one of the ones was owned by the Rea fan oh so 200 okay it can't be one of the not from the re one up from rep going up to Hill halfway up to gry's house that's how I know is it before the old house is it before the old house on the left the old house on the left got torn down and was rebuilt and there's a whole new house there right we did that one yeah three houses off two houses three or two houses there was actually two properties there one was really old house y yep y y y okay I know what know right where we are I'm goodon yeah ponies the sales John salesman no no no Beyond it's beyond Hatfields hope you can contribute to the conversation as well as these we know the towns in better than anyone else we just need to get to the sidewalk so that's why I had to get and I apologize don't miss there are just uh can you um inform us on what are the requirements to go from The Perennial to an intermittent stream and also about the phone call you had with uh d d earlier this week regarding this that's complicated um um okay uh hold on I'm doing a control search of the WPA as we speak I couldn't do this flipp it through papers all right um okay so um ultimately the stream that is mapped at the the rear of their property is a solid blue line on maps um when a is a solid blue line versus a dotted or a dashed Blue Line the solid blue very often almost always indicates that it is a perennial stream when it is a dashed or dotted blue blue line it indicates it is a an intermittent Stream So this particular stream is a solid blue line which means it's perennial and has that 200t riverfront area so um what Jesse is trying to do is is have the commission review the material submitted to see if that stream is intermittent um so how the process is sort of written in the WPA um is the stream can be uh mapped in a program called USGS stream stats and if it has a watershed size of um uh half an acre or greater it typically indicates that it is perennial um so yeah so he he brought that stream stats report which shows it's like Point 01 or or like 011 square miles so well under half a square mile um and then the other provision is that you have to do a documented field observation um at least once per day over four days during a non-drought period that basically shows that the stream bed is dry so um he submitted several different months worth of consecutive photos that indicate a dry stream bed so most recently there was a drought declaration but the photos that um he provided were from before that became into effect June and July yeah but these are from this year right June and July when of course being The Devil's Advocate if you took these pitches the same time last year it would have been a big difference no every year so in other words you've gone up there oh yeah for x amount of years there for seven years and every year it's it's probably in the June late June early July time it's it's dry and when rain and in weeks of rain it does start flowing again yeah but it does dry up all I'm what I'm seeing here briefly in all these pctures I'm seeing a lot of root scouring a lot of all Fern I'm seeing exposed large Rock so when it does run it must have a torrent to it it must have a strong flow so the the the rains that we had last year just to the of that property there's the C that goes underneath the road and you know heavy but it was gone within short time y yep so and that terrain on that side of town is very Rocky it's very yeah um right a lot of when you look at that you tell me there isn't a strong water coming down through there I know I had six out of control you know I mean some of those  are going to demonstrate a large amount of water that flows down there at any point in time I'm not disputing the intermittent perennial but when it does and it is so that's that's acceptable Jim so you know perennial stream is typically going to have a groundwater input which allows it to flow year round intermittent or ephemeral stream are those that are more prone to flowing in response to precipitation events so if you're seeing you know observations and the photos of you know piling of leaves and materials and Torrance then then that does kind of give you an indication that it is more of a precipitation fed Waterway correct in some of in one of those particular pictures you could see weing debr 3 to four feet in the up on the tree so all I'm saying is when it's running it's running but as you said it's a very rare turns only during the Torrance and heavy rain so so the reason I'm trying I was Rec starting to try to build a garage yeah Jessica brought me up to speak yeah so that's why I went down this and I'm doing it myself you know I'm not hiring a yep contractor so I'm trying to I don't want to say do it inexpensively but I'm trying to do the right thing trying to do it inexpensively notice of intent but it's another four to5 th000 to hire somebody gotcha you see all the work that they had to do for all that I'm trying to not have to spend that absolutely I 100% agree and the fact that the stream does run dry um even this year last year it did we had a ton of rain but we had a lot of torrential rains this year too yeah there was a lot of groundw still cuz the river was very high and you kept seeing um whatever Brook that runs next to your property lock lock proper you kep saying it's going to go dry and the amount of water that was going through it in May it I was surprised it was still going Jimmy this isn't going dry is this the point of its Inception yeah well that's the assumed point of inception but this is also now did you happen to go out there take pictures once a month with the dated newspaper on four days and it's so pictures which areed on your phone okay then got you no same idea some engineers get real tricky about it so they can prove their point fitzburg you know here it is dated on that ground in the middle of that dried up Brook because and the reason I'm asking is we built that we own that one right yeah how long have you lived up there we moving very little bit so you know I gu you know dries right up no yeah you're right um Jessica you also had a conversation with because we built that house we actually own that one below you oh that little intermittent stream is right there it and runs drives up runs and stops when it when there's a Toral rain it comes Hill yeah comes right off the slope gets on it runs down you know they what I to find my way there Y what I was looking at um Jessica you there m um I was just letting letting them chat stream talk um thank you I mean this is probably just going to add confusion to things so I don't know if you actually want me to mention this but I'll start and you guys can just stop me um so this is the first stream reclassification that you've considered any of you and including me so I didn't really know how to initiate this so I contacted d a few weeks ago um and was told by someone at D to do the the classification process through an RDA um so that's what we that's what I then communicated to the applicant um and then yes two days ago I got a phone call from the same person at D that then said oh well at D they use a different GIS mapper to review stream and on the one that she was looking at it showed the stream was intermittent um so all of these efforts then were unnecessary sort of um so her mapper showed different than yours so don't shoot the m so that's fine though that's in our favor I mean well yeah so so um so the two you know it's it's a USGS map at the end of the day right that's what you're using is the US GS map so in you know the public map source that the state of or the Commonwealth of Massachusetts promotes to use it's called Mass mapper so Mass mapper has a USGS option so on that map and then specifically on the USGS website where you can view and download the Topo quads both of those sources showed it as a perennial stream and then apparently there's this map source that D exclusively uses that has some USGS information but it shows that this particular stream was mapping as intermittent intermittent so I mean we weren't like misled it was just caught too late I guess so um sorry Jessie but anyway so so it works in the applicant's favor and then um we we learned to finish so the the two options the the original way of approving this if you guys chose to approve it as intermittent would be through um you know taking the RDA request and issuing it as a POS what did I write positive 2A I think which basically says that like you guys agree with all these findings um or alternatively now that there the the mapper that D used is shows it as an intermittent stream you could issue a I think it's A6 determination which basically means this whole application's non applicable it's nothing in our jurisdiction so I think it's I think it's netive six I'm not looking at the form but um I mean I would recommend that because you know the applicant prepared all this information and it's it's already how I drafted the forms I would recommend going with the Positive 2A um which still means at least for the next three years that you guys agree to it being an intermittent classification it could change in three years well after that do they have to does matter does it wouldn't matter so I don't know probably really confusing Jessica after three years they'd have to come back do they have to come back depends what the maps show at that time but if if D still uses their secret Source um and it shows intermittent still in three years or whenever then I think it's safe to assume no they would not need to come back unless they wanted to do something within 100 feet of the stream of course that changes things but um then why can't we why can't we give it A6 I mean both both options are are valid for three years so I don't think it it really matters but you know since the request is written to overturn the status of a stream um another map status of the stream is what he's requesting the one with the so it's a tough one and the last time we went through this was on Dudley road with Sean toy we had to go through the changing of Waterland area so and he did get improval I'm okay with this Pat you attended the S sidewalk yes did you have any questions concerns it was you know dry when I went to go see it and I mean you could tell you know that there was water at one time you know just the way it laid out but it was you didn't see any any no I didn't side we Jason you're 100% familiar what goes on up there familiar with that Crossing yeah with what I was doing while we were working there on that site and of course as kids we went on both sides we were at old man happy or we were in the down in the back where the monkeys were so yeah I'm we go way back there's a story with every sidewalk trust me all right um so I'm true why don't you make a motion I'm going to make a motion um doesn't matter 64 whichever way right I'm going to make a motion to issue a positive 2A 2 a um with a note indicating CC overturns the uh perennial classification for three years um I that yeah James D approve James States yes Kevin Smith yes and we did establish after three years he they will have to reapo or to see what the classifications stands yes it's number two right so that could deviate in three years so the EP could go to a bral and the right so after three years I'd have to come back and reestablish see what the current status of it is because I we said M Mass mappers in so I'm doing this to build a gage do matter it's a mo point in years right be I didn't I didn't want to say it but I already did I don't problem moving forward and everything grass is gr and everything is established all right so Jessica did you hear uh Pat's vote P had a she had a sec what V on this we got the Pat and so someone talked and I want just want to make sure you heard it it was it was it a yes yes got it 104 copy V all right we will sign this and just go fill out any of the other parts and get it out to you and we have two openings if you're interested I have no time oh come on we don't either we only we show up it's only twice a month I mean yeah and all you can see we a lot of fun all 3.3 town and Wetland byock schedule review um we all we we really should try I know but thank you um Jessica do you just want me to write on the sheet what we think it should be or not make anyone happy doing it um you can do that and or I can edit I guess um why you do both well didn't we review some of the other towns as far as what they're getting and we're way behind the curve no they are no we're the we're the opposite oh yeah surprise all right they're actually jumping on it pat do you want need a copy of what the existing yeah I didn't get to print it I trying to be careful with my okay comp can you share with M please yeah um I remember in by hack is there some of these increases I did 14 15 years ago we did some two years ago yeah and a year ago yeah um so that's why I actually now say it's good that we're at least I mean current to so Jessica I I think administrative approval across the board should be 50 bucks and then anyone here at this table please stop you if you disagree no I agree P um I'm sorry I was signing what you doing administra approval administrative approval right now is $30 be50 yeah well how much time do you can you 50 bucks enough um I mean we've done a few of these and just between like project introductions and running down the form that you have to do a site visit um you know I mean they're very they're very simple projects so probably at least I would say three hours probably of effort we can't shock the system by doubling it no right but I think where you were with that number is good but I would say since we since we adopted this like over a year and a half ago we've done like three or four of these only so just if that puts anything into perspective and like Jen Jessica's been said you know the amount of hours it takes to do an noi you've done four of them all the time but right I think the ones that you does all the time so you're going from I was just going across the board here I I I I know one of the goals Jessica had was trying to consolidate um this is just the first line in it and so $50 for administrative approval right it's not enough but but it's reasonable and it is like you said a shock I think they ought to have a I think the auto flat rat for the RDA is 150 bucks right across them rather than you know I agree because we got bring the cost Jessica okay wait so hold on administrative approval $50 for everything got I don't want to have to go go back to it um I'm just updating the word document as we're going just to be efficient um okay so got that so rdas yeah I mean at the end of the day they're they're all pretty similar you know like the process to follow is is similar so these prices do not include advertising correct okay what the posting with the advertis got wicked expensive when I did mine I think it was no no it wasn't that I think it was 85 what what I think I think they're about between about 70 it it depends how many words you put into it but it they're between about 75 to $100 yeah yeah I think I just paid four five 400 400 a low 400s and the high 400 yeah the the planning boards has to they have a more yeah you you have a lot more that goes into it but for kcom we keep we try to just keep it simple because it no one reads it and yeah not true all right so we read it you know n RDA Kevin you said 150 I I don't know we we need to I I don't think that's I don't think that's off the wall what is it right now A existing single family house or Farm is 50 uh new construction or re developed single family house is 60 multi single family house um 120 is 120 and all of the projects are 170 I don't want to pay 150 more anybody else we bring a lot of stuff but no obviously work I can see the cost are you looking which one are you looking to increase Jimmy everything's on which one I mean you're going to go so another you're going to go 50 then you're going to go to 110 this one's going to go to 170 what 150 150 150 150 so in other words you're going to take the 170 and bring it to 150 yeah I mean you could because all other projects tend to be quite large so you could you know have the residential be 150 and then all other projects be 225 or you know whatever but that's an option I don't know why we don't have a flat price right across the board that's what I'm wondering it it's well because then you have like there's more involvement in each one as it goes up RDA is not necessarily nois definitely yes the more the more complex the project yeah but you can put four hours into an RDA and not even notice it easy yeah oh our RDA is probably what six to eight hours at at minimum all right I don't at 30 bucks an hour cost go across the board and that's not even cost I see what you're saying and the only thing that disrupts me a little bit is when you go to 170 so you're reducing that 120 no no no I I agree with J all over the project should be 225 or 250 all right so in other words we're going 50 up on everyone no 150 on is going to be the total for each one up until all of the projects so all you g to go to two and a quarter there yes okay I'm following you okay 150 150 all right 150 so that's going up 20 does everyone have a copy the the copy is right outside of if not everyone has their own copy Mike and Jimmy are sharing okay but but it's awful hot in here you know yeah and Jimmy's had literally a bowl full of candy I'm so sugar is just it's I can hear the rappers through the zoom sound you know Kevin I'm looking at one two three four Reese's so I'm not the only one I can't believe you're going to miss us I know you are y are fun it is probably 80 degre in here is it really I don't I'm telling you it was it was 96 earlier during our bid opening so all right so abbreviated notice of resource area delineation and rad um how many of these have we done I have done one since I've been here which one is that again James abbreviated notice of resource area delineation been a long time even in my corner and how much is it what are we looking at on that 125 delineation maximum of 125 I'd like to hear what some of the other towns are at do you know Jess what well yeah I have talk that but not every town is true but they don't charge it but their fee schedules are you know they're harder to follow yeah I was look at them too see now they max out here 125 Max 350 Max all others H right big variable on these last two so that one for example the first first one um 125 per linear foot 125 Max so that's basically saying there's 100t worth of boundary delineation on somebody's property um which is probably not I would I would think that's below average yeah so I think you can keep the Purl in your foot but up the max if you wanted yeah just because we don't we don't do enough of these to really make an educated decision on what it should cost so so make both of them or make the existing single family home I 250 Max 75 up I guess I'm in agreement with couple hundred bucks Jessica when you have to do an anr is it they're usually an RDA or noi associated with it no so an RADS are are used more exclusively if you just want your Wetland lineation confirmed outside of any permitting process so maybe you know maybe you you some some developer buys a 30 acre parcel and wants to know where all the wetlands are before they sink more costs into designing it for subdivision purposes or something um so if you're kind of seeing if you're going to Doom yourself or not I do remember the one we did for this it was off of 119 yeah right behind the highway yep yep so that was that was in advance of them doing a an anr a subdivision of a lot which one was that behind the town bound yes uh to the South to the right of the yes to the east of the DI yeah okay the right side um all right so yeah so yeah that I think 2 250 Max would be appropriate then if you're you know you're obviously in this planning stages and just part of the engineering cost so you going into existing family houses SL or Farm you're going to go up to 2at cooking so you're going to go from the 125 to 250 yes we have only done one in the last three years and yeah I can't even remember when yeah that was when I was out I'm sure right I would have know I would have remembered it so all right 250 it is yeah all right here guys I gotta I gotta hop off real quick I'll be back in a moment okay don't yell at him um I was really hoping she they can hear us we're in a meeting what do you want to call that to me when I oh you want to call 200 what I I think 250 there is still W work okay 200 200 oh so I got to cross out the 250 and go what I originally said was 200 on redevelop single family house somebody's buying a house they're going out there and they want to rehab it I got to pay 350 I say that we can leave that I guess you probably thank you okay you don't have to do any of it no I get you needs to be there to cou acrost but and we're all I'm all the way I'm looking at is we' been one I'd go 200 bucks on one business as usual on the single family house or Farm yeah y you know white G the F and 350 alone yep yep and and leave the other ones alone you never get them okay all right yeah plus plus your at 250 now you you come down the line now notice of intent 110 bucks they she can't even do paperwork for that no so you know right to cover the cost that should be 150 bucks so in lunenberg they have an advertising fee obviously application fee for filing notice oh that's after violation um they have a so $40 advertising fee a BW fee of $25 inspection in office fees of 100 um up there 150 bucks yeah you're already at a buck and a half right yeah over that right um so and then and then no no don't you don't add so it's you're at 165 and then Basics oh that's enforcement orders never mind that doesn't make sense hold on that doesn't make sense bring her up to 150 they still don't think that's enough can't the people but I'm back do you want to be 200 bucks Kevin's getting mad with me no I'm on the other end of this all the time I know do you want to be 200 bucks is that what you think we need to be 200 bucks make it 20 bucks would I'm all done crying Jessica can can you give us a basic idea of with an noi existing single family house or farm is where are you with the 110 is that are we losing money or oh absolutely oh yes how how much oh my gosh in other words would you say twice as much if that was 200 more more I would say I would say eight times as much but can't do that no I would say for so for an noi I mean you know kind of a basic standard like oh I want to put a a pool in or I want to put an addition um yeah you know that's probably 10 or 12 hours if it's if it's a little more uh like for for example the um the Wallace Hill the hor the horse paddocks like that's already been like a solid 15 hours and we haven't even issued an order yet so and you how many hours did you say probably like 15 just like because just how much goes into reviewing it no that's too much of a for the system you right but at the same time you know go go go down construction Constructor redevelop single family home 200 hold on I yes single family existing single family house or Farm 200 but for a new construction or redeveloped family house you know there's a per square foot disturbance in resource area buffers maybe that we shouldn't even have that maybe it should just be you know I don't know Rec I'm not disagreeing with you on the 300 bucks because what what the and I'm not just go with it and people are going to have to but if we go with those numers Weill you by the hour it'll be 600 bucks is this is something we're doing every year the review of the um the uh Fe schedule we hav we haven't raised no we did it last year yeah but it was we didn't raise this all particular ones we did we only did what two effective September 19th 2023 and yes I believe it was only hand it was two but cuz I was going to say each year you could go up but we only did two last year you never get any of these multif family ones so just leave them alone because they're already high I would I mean I'm with Kevin gr you know I've only been here for three years but we we rarely see you know you don't see like multi single family houses coming in as a bunch of nois I mean I know we've had like the Alyssa Drive subdivision and copper Smith but those are so few and far between so you guys could potentially oh gosh like just completely strike this whole category what and just have a single line item for notice of 10 because I mean what you would do for a subdivision right is you would or what i' what I've seen done in other subdivisions in town is someone pulls an noi for the you know sort of we'll call it the parent parcel you pull an Noy to put in your storm water infrastructure your utilities and your your road and then once you go and subdivide the Lots you know say it's a 20 lot subdivision maybe there's five lots that will be within the 100 foot buffer so then those five Lots get their own individual nois on it too so um so in that case you would have one big noi for all the utilities as an all other project and then the you know the small new construction Lots would be under the one new constructed single family house so I I don't see what type of project would utilize the multi- single family houses get one or two pretty soon so I say we leave those be what do you want to do with the one turn 165 what do we're basically more concerned at looking at the existing single family house or Palm House with the NY at the 110 300 bucks to help cover the cost of the of the uh you're looking at the paperwork that doesn't that doesn't cover the the town's cost 300 bucks doesn't cover the town's cost I'm just saying when somebody sees 180 100 night they're going to want to understand and a reason for it because it will have to come out if it takes 6 8 hours so to do this and and our staff cost are x amount of dollars per hour M that $300 don't cover I guess my argument with with with the taxpayer in the town would be why don't we just bill you by the hour for the time get touch and then and then going to Bill them once it's going to be $600 and then they're going to say geez I wish that I would have kept my mouth shut 3 bucks that's just the time we're we we're try to talk not even the mileage that is re which is minimum you know I get it it uh so in other words Jessica would short but a jump from where it was I think we should get it to that point don't forget we also have a 25% search charge on applications within an area of critical environmental concern or and or river yeah I mean I'm I'm with you guys on you know not wanting to like double basically but again I mean this it's not like this is the last time you'll ever do this looking for triple how dare you no um so so you could you could increase it but you know with the intent that you'll increase it again in a few years too um so you know if increasing it by any means now will'll improve and increase your resue Revenue so Ain going to go down just like as in business right so I think you know I know Kevin you're kind of saying like use the lumpsum approach which is easier it's cleaner but you know using the the plus a nickel or a dime per square footage of disturbance you know that also incentivizes people to try to minimize their footprint of disturbance too actually good point and you can go back yeah and pre measure the Disturbed areas all right I'm a little sketchy on the 300 mark but I I 250 Pat 260 what are your thoughts on on the notice of intent um you're right I me just listen what she spends in time and I with especially nois rdas are a whole different they can vary these can change right Jessica as far as with an noi yes yes some are simple we have with the one that we just got in today is for an addition on a house that's really simple but this one like the Starbucks it's obviously a lot more complex where is it and it is going to escalate n oh um well Pat that's what we're speak of Pat what did you say Patty I think we should do the 300 you and Kevin for both of them no 200 on 200 on the am I not allowed to talk yet so you can make a public comment yeah okay thank you comment yeah so the idea of building by the hour I think that's a little tricky you have to you know but this a possible you know if Jessica were to look at each category and sort of get the average some are shorter some are longer get the average and then for each of these categories and you decide well how much per hour should you charge for each of those hours so let's say in one category she comes up with six hours and you decide that $50 is per hour is a reasonable amount of money so would be what $300 uh another category might be only two hours on average and so that would be $100 you know unfort much of that right but um you know most of that stuff is you probably get a 4our minimum right Jess yeah you know although I wish Mike I wish I made $50 an hour that'd be nice put a good word you know if I got you $50 an hour would you you do yeah with L coordinator we haven't told Pat she was a few minutes late uh Jessica's is uh gave her notice and she she's leaving us how dare you guilt trip I know right crazy told you she wasn't going to take it oh my God I can't believe have to be the one to calm her down after this well see now instead of having a nice little baggie of treats on my windshield tomorrow they're going to be smashed against the front of my car what do you mean I'm GNA put eggs there want cook I Told You So on side again you know there is to 300 let's be done with this 3 wait wait wait no no no no 110 300 165 300 um I I don't feel good about that no it it should be I think it should be 400 I'm going up higher well it's 165 those to 330 right so you might as well go to 400 because there is more involved in it wow we've not seen the C right yeah it might be heat in this room that's counter ra what I I I got to stick with the we don't want a shock system right well then 330 because that doubles it the triples it triples it we're talking about the regular 165 is yeah 165 * 2 she's right no I thought we were talking about the existing single family home or Farm I'm sorry no 300 for that one okay so so what do you want make the other you want to make the uh 3 one new constructed or redeveloped single family homes 300 bucks I know about 330 want to keep Bo across the board yeah box across the board ex the new construction you still have 5are foot 5 cents a square foot of disturbed area yeah 5 cents so the 300 is 3 more than that anyway by the time they get done with us it's usually 400 did you follow along with that so you want 300 for the second one yeah yeah I think there is a all right okay so I I still had 200 for existing single family house but you want to raise that to 300 right correct okay and then the next one the one new construction is a 300 base plus 5 cents they stay the same yep okay and then multi single family that just a flat price of $300 if you're not talking a lot of money at 5 cents a foot no you're not come on Jimmy stop it 25 okay so so say hold on hold on hold on let her talk say you're gonna put a new a new house right and Lawn and septic and a driveway so say you put a 2,000 foot home plus 10,000 square feet you want 10,000 all right so if you're disturbing 10,000 square fee okay so it say disturbing 10,000 square fee times 05 that's $500 so you have a $300 base plus a $500 buffer charge or whatever so that's $800 a lot of money it is I I also don't see I think we just go 300 right across that's I mean at the grand scheme you know it's a whole new house Cost Plus the building permit associated with that so $800 maybe isn't a a ton in the grand I don't know I don't know you guys but when are you leaving us here just make it $500 just make it $500 Wednesday of next week agree they still paying a lot it's still it's cheaper to raise the even price just have a flat fee for 500 bucks then you don't have to sit down try to figure out the square footage oh was only 6,000 ft oh it's 8 no I got 8200 yeah you know 5 cents adds up it does you know just 500 bucks 500 bucks a lot but no matter how many square feet you you disturb a flat fee let me look up um what the DP charges because remember you still get yeah so we so we get two fee checks for every application for for every noi application we we get the check from the fee schedule that is in front of you right now the towns and Wetland bylaw fee state yeah and then we also get the state filing fee so I'm going to look at what the state filing fee is for like a new construction okay so I'm going to jump down because obious we're not going to do anything no no we're almost done yeah no no I mean but the multi- single family holes in the all other projects you know those those were not gonna table them no we don't need to table them it's per lot yeah so just let it go um but the request for phasing of project filing per phase I I think we we don't have anything under existing single family what you're not going to you they're going to be few they're going to be scarce let's put it that way good well but there is extensive amount of work when you have to explain to D the phasing aspect and then monitoring it and then this and that follow Pap for you what are you seeing Jess um Harley can I have screen sharing permissions so you're right you're not going to see many of them but we should be able to cover the cost if we have to no I I'm fine you know we make simple revisions now and we can revise it again next year so let it sit till next year you're not g to have anying section let that sit till next year because you're not going to have any this year yeah no right all right can you guys see this yes oh there one of those can you read it yes so okay what lunberg does it like this no sorry oh um I don't know this is this is the WPA forms or or fees so we get H for for a lack of better math we get about half of the bolded fee and then about half goes to the state there's a little bit more complicated form but for your purposes just half these numbers and that is the the amount that we get at the Town level so we get 250 we get 300 bucks but that fin the town gets back from the state am I right Jess so yeah so for construction of a single family house we get the amount that we end up getting is actually $2 26250 yeah okay and then for um work on a septic system which you know that's 80% of the nois we get the it's half of this plus 1250 so it's like what almost $70 or 6750 I think so y sure um so anyway just for your reference so so some um you know if a community does not have a Wetlands bylaw they exclusively rely on their share of these fees um oh absolutely some communities I think also just opt to like double the fee so whatever whatever their portion of of this category fee is multiply by two and that's your submittal fee so now you're telling right we're on the OC's now submission for of revision for very minor modification to O I think the prices that are there are fa cuz it doesn't take that much well if we we're nicking into all the other ones will kick these up 15 yeah m i mean minor modifications that we still have to process and bring it back and revise the documents 50 bucks across the board 50 bucks across the board yeah Pat yeah that's I'm waiting for Pat to see 100 across but yeah I say shoot across the board five hours all right request for amended or extension of order conditions so these um these are kind of different actually because amending an order of conditions you have to hold a whole new public hearing and do another legal ad whereas an extension that's they're kind of two separate processes so you're looking at 85 for the for the posting well so the request for amended should be 100 and extension 50 single family farm again what are you looking at you're going from 55 up to what well separated into two separate rows yeah for amended and extension yeah for the amended portion 100 for the first two 200 for the other two and then under the extension row just make it F 50 across the board okay does that make sense everyone well it's reasonable it's not too obtrusive Jessica you want to again look at that sure um yeah I mean with the amended I think sounds okay um the extension I mean with that we still go out and do a site visit for compliance and then do the paperwork too and then the extension we have to make sure that it gets recorded So make 100 100 and then multifam 200 bucks 200 bucks all other projects 200 bucks yeah is that for both of them yeah two for would you say you average out an hour um is no I don't know I mean it depends on the size of the site too like yeah yeah um you know someone's just building a new house down on Pierce Road like that's pretty small but an extended order you know other other sites have for all of projects yeah it could be like a transportation project or something or a utility project so anywhere from like 15 minutes to 45 maybe yeah or more okay okay so 100 across the board for po or separated across for the existing single and the redevelop single and uh 200 for the multif family and all the projects yeah it's 82° in here I know it's off on time I pretty much if there's any way we could we could have that last little right here and just call it and I I am literally done you can if you need toce excuse yourself go ahead we have to do 3.4 so that's that's yeah what I that's what I just that's right yeah we we can handle that which one are we handling hold on hold we're we're just about done so Jessica did you follow with what the discussion was because I 100 100 200 200 for both right okay yeah okay U request for certificate of compliance during time of O we have 100 um or 22 I mean sorry free and free and then 350 and 350 if it's after the ex expiration of order of conditions it's 100 per each year Beyond expiration date for the first two and then 125 a year okay everyone good with those remaining the same yeah I'm okay with that Y and then request for emergency certificate I'm fine with those I you don't it's a rarity yeah I mean realistically I don't think a exist single family house would have an emergency certificate because really the emergency is defined as something like public health or safety so it might only be applicable to an all other project it's a rarity Bridge washing that um you say we all go to get an ice cream you guys should try the pump the pumpkin Oreo it's so so good the what pumpkin Oreo pumpkin Oreo not worried about pumpkin Oreo worried about trying to get you to stay and you're just trying to spin with it with pumpkin Oreos so if we're good with the town bylaws it will have to go in front of the S board Whenever there that cluster is fixed yeah which isn't any time it's in sometime in the end of November November right everybody stay tuned so 3 St yet uh we need to discuss a Administration plan moving forward I am meeting with Nelson the town admin on Monday um I I I I will try to go with you okay I can too we okay um we have to be careful how many people I'm not going to go hold you now um Jessica has done a great job doc so didn't Autumn um but with that said no one's going to be in the office to answer phone calls and I I can't check that many emails addresses so I already have to main three of them so I we are J has there been any discussion intern of what their plan is we will have it on Monday if there has been any so there hasn't been any discussion with um HR or Nelson you know outside of our commission then I mean not that not that I've been involved in at least no and you don't know do you know what they any certain expectations moving forward that would be a TA question I'm not sure yeah I'm not really part of the the planning Endeavors after next week that well that makes sense also when are you leaving Jessica next Wednesday my last day what happened to A month's notice that would help us noce would have better I guess I'm happy for you I know you got your hands pulled with the two and the third one coming but still we're gonna miss you a thank you guys I like I don't want to scare you away with all of these this predicament that we our town has gotten Us in um to bring you up to date our Regent resigned in July June whatever and town because of the budget crisis never posted the job position for agent in the year years past at some point the that position sounds like Harley must have fallen asleep and Dro on to the computer you all right we had a uh I guess we had a a brief loss of the internet connection I I think we're back now I I apologize I don't know what happened so I'm not trying to put um Jessica on you know on the spotlight here to answer these questions um she is going to I hope I hope she uh you know she will hand everything over or have everything prepared that she can prepare for when she departs which I greatly appreciate I know all of our commissioners greatly appreciate can't thank you enough um if the town isn't going to offer support um can't be done let's just be straight and honest about it no way a chair can sit there and do more time Jessica's barely able to do it with VES part of this discussion that has been f part of this discussion is just documenting the frustration that yes the commission has currently in concerns of our future with his board stands yes I like I said presently this town structuring is like turn no it's melting down you know we have a new Town Administrator that just walked in to both selectman leaving and another one that's soon to go you don't know that I don't but you never know hope she's had some personal tragedy hopefully she'll just over I know you're tired we're all tired I I wish there could have been a there I I hope I'm hopeful that there could be a plan put in place um other than that I just want to make sure that's on public record that I can't give any more I don't I can't expect anyone else to give more than they are given in time and um thing is I don't have the knowledge I mean I come in answer phones and and but I'm not up to speed with everybody you're commissioner P You're I'm a commissioner you're a commissioner we're Commissioners we are not all the employees nor should we for a minute be expected to pick up on a job that the town has predicated money for no year after year this is position yeah this is yeah this is not anything new J no you know so but I mean it's a you know and I've seen this a commissioner gives freely of them of themselves many hours a year and I'm be on the call too exactly it's s and it's tough always taking a call from somebody when the when somebody starts doing some work next to the house and you know our family's an old family from town I get a phone call and but you know sometime after supper on the only night I think I'm going to sit down and you know what do you think so we all we all have we' all G all go through check uh projects we all keep an eye out on things we do we try to do our um try to do what we can without with the absence of a agent but with the absence of our core Administration to our commission yes it is going to be very difficult for for us to function um your discussion with the town administr for canot and cannot function and keep this Commission in operate without Jessica and another Advent period And if they have expectations of it existing and and moving forward that way the only the biggest thing is I can well and again I do this to document it um and God we only have two more meetings in 2024 but um Jessica I can't thinkk enough for the everything you've given us and um the progress that you've you with in our Small Town Massachusetts good well no oh thanks no guys it's been a pleasure and I'm glad that we could really try to get things back on track um I full faith however we move forward you guys will do right right Jessica may I also add I very much enjoyed working with you and I concur with whoever it was who said you have a very beautiful smile a thank you so do youy thank you you're most welcome with that it is 9:15 we have a correspondence there are we are in a mild drug status uh declared by mass I'm not going to read it um our next meeting is November 13th and December 11th 2024 and January 8 2025 7 P.M border select chamber second floor uh it will also be held uh via Zoom um so I make a motion to adjourn at 9:16 p.m second Jimmy second roll call vote please James yes James Gates yes Kevin Smith yes P J yes thank you J all right thanks guys have a good night unless we scared him off already