##VIDEO ID:3Rq2bHdwjjk## good afternoon this is the towns and finance committee um meeting on Tuesday September 17th we call the meeting to order at 6:02 PM um as we have remote members uh roll call attendance please Geral mikas Andrea wood Dam Grant and Don Hayes with that we have four of our five members at this point so we have a quorum so we are good to go um the this meeting is being played live on Channel 9 and recorded and will be AA replayed on Channel 9 in the future and is also available on the Townson YouTube channel um the next uh 1.4 additions of deletions um not known to the chair when posted um we did receive some correspondence so I am adding in the work session section I'm adding 2.7 to go over the correspondence just so we are um we have it okay um sorry turn my mouse on to scroll there we go um so first item in in the work session is reviewing the meeting minutes um I don't have them open um do we does did anybody review review the meeting minutes or do we need to do we need to call them up review them online with silence I guess up [Music] okay so the first one is July 23rd okay do we want to take the time read them read them here um sorry I didn't share I thought I had okay okay so now I am sharing the meeting minutes I'm sorry um July 23rd we probably did already because this is we yeah sorry that's uh we had already approved these minutes um and this it was in my inbox again because um we had Sam Grant was missing from the initial attendance and so now these These are updated with that change so these will be submitted to town park that's completed uh next one is August okay I'm just checking my calendar because I think because it was 4:00 that was that was didn't we did we Monday meeting yeah yeah so that that's why the time is a little little off um I we didn't approve the um you think we approve I think we did on the fifth also okay because this this was going through our recommendation sheets that's right okay and last one be the 13th of August which was our last meeting this was again we we were reviewing the uh special town meeting articles up a little bit there going to say do we want me to be the teleprompter in keepy promp okay and these were the ones that we did questions on from the prior week um so these These are the Motions we made and went on our recommendation sheet that was presented at at the special town meeting motion um yeah I would make a motion to approve August 13th minutes second okay thank you Andrea um any further discussion none being heard uh roll call vote please general b is upst I wasn't here Andre wood yes Sam you with us same you're mute okay um Don Hayes is yes approved um um no because we have a uh we have we still have the quum with the three because it's five and so the vote is two two4 one abstain so that's still majority we okay we will try to get Sam to check in and so we'll we'll go back and so jump back too um okay item two it's the finance committee bylaw review um we had put this onto our list of tasks that we wanted to do this summer um earlier before the special town meeting and and all the work we did there we had a sign that we were going to look at that we're going to divide it since there's only six divided into into half and do one to three so I just want to bring it up again um I don't I haven't heard any input or changes so so um we'll bring that into our next meeting to review the action we have we have as a as as a committee review our bowas um and take next next meeting we'll do one to three and then the following meeting we'll do the 46 and um see if we can make any recommendations to the BW committee and get them submitted as as they make their changes to the Bas um as we're talking about B I will mention we're looking at a little bit of a conflict in the BSE right now there's two sections um that talk about appointing members um one is um with um in in two different one's one's on the charter side one's in the bylaw side so we and they're not consistent about how a replacement member would be appointed um so we want to make sure that we have um consistent or at least um do they differ that much about as to who as to who does the appointing yes it's kind of like one is the back back to town moderator and the other is the town committee the the for it it's says moderator what the charter says moderator for the remainder of the term right and within the BW it says the committee for the remainder of the year to be appointed by meaning what committee meaning our committee our committee can can receive a volunteer request and and vote and appoint the member but it's only good for the remainder of the of the term of the of the year not the term of the year right you know so um we have two openings one ends in 2025 so that's not an issue but the one that ends in 2026 um which was Josh's position um we would the way it reads we could appoint somebody until 2025 and then the moderator would would need to approve so we can if we skip it and get the moderator to to appoint it it it's kind of like we want to make sure there's no issues as we do it and and that the person we're appointing knows exactly what the appearance is going to be Mr chair well I thought I thought that when John appointed we get letters that say when I is going to we do but generally that's after our term has expired and and so PE these are and that's that's where a little bit of the conflict is if if we have John a point one would be till the end of 20 Tri and one would be 2026 so that that's our other option is just speak with John and have him write the appointment letters then then there's no question I don't know if they they conflict necessarily yeah I think they're for two different purposes and I think the charter says this is how people get appointed but the bylaw is like um more specific to if there's a vacancy in the middle right you know so that's not necessarily a conflict but I would ask Town Council that's that's where I think we need to go yeah so thank you and we have a new Charter that supposedly to be signed well the house is out of session okay the next few weeks right yeah see if that has I don't think I don't think we changed anything that okay thank you so um right now we don't know when the meeting is because that's later on we're setting that the next meeting's open for H for for us for us yeah the finance committee we don't have how many openings do you have now right now we have two openings one that in FY the um it ends once 2 so it's done um I think it's done it will be done in at at the end town meeting the next annual town meeting so it's still it's it's yeah is that one that's current and would run through that and need to be reappointed um for FY 26 and then the other one run runs through um FY 26 and we have to get appointed at end of town meeting in 2026 so we we um so that's that's our little little piece on the byw and and overlap into the finance committee membership so we we do have the two opening um we're looking and follow you know trying to follow up um and we have received um we've received one um one in maybe two um volunteer forms so we'll we'll take a work at them invite them to our next meeting um and then find out and give them a little little bit of what our schedule especially as we get to the the end of the budget season well the budget yeah we we you know we they may not necessarily understand what the what the requirements of their time would be especially the end so we want to take and and see what they so you don't want to set that meeting or you want to set that meeting um we'll we'll set the meeting but I have the is it six so we'll we um and I place on the the that that's all for the membership we we haven't recommended anybody yet I will as the forms come in I'll get them out to everybody so that and then send the invite to um our next meeting so that we can meet with the prospective members so you're assuming that the by you're going by the bylaw um right now we'll go by the bylaw um still having conversation with John that if he you know feels that he wants to appoint for the full time he may want to call down Council right yeah yeah um not sure how how the next next item goes item four I put review the impact of the pay as you throw to the FY 25 budget um I put in Beyond um just because trash is going to continue to be um a budget item but as we go from the FY 25 budget into preparing FY 26 because that preparation starts probably a m four to five months from now so we have to we have to see how it's going um so when we go back to the special town meeting that we had um and and we look at the line item so the trash line item is $822,000 in um Plus Min us a little bit in the budget um when we voted a budget in may we had enough money to cover it from the revenue sources that we had um at the time but the schools were funded at zero in the special town meeting the two schools because of the other towns having voted towns in had to come in and pay that so we have um a minimum a about aund a million dollar deficit at that point because in order to keep that 822 in the budget plus pay the million dollars for the for the two schools um we didn't have enough Revenue um at at that time so we are um um so the way we were doing it the rest of the town meeting was how do we get to cover the 800 22 um in the budget so the first line item was an additional $100,000 from ambulance receips so and as we heard from the chief on town meeting 4 there may not be that additional $100,000 in the ambulance receipts to cover next year um the next couple of items um the next couple of items we had were adjusting um little bits of money um we Ross went and found the special town meeting articles that had a little money and we transferred in about 22,000 from them and then there was about there was 22,000 that we took out between the Mis the it um and the Town Administrator lines the car and then the last one was the 47,500 for the um Cruisers which we is a lease and it's what for the Cruisers the police cruisers so all of those lines were reduced in order to get the budget so when we look at it that that's another 60 or $70,000 but we still love whether we reduced it or not we it in fy2 because we stopped the leas when we get to FY 26 that full 95,000 is going to be do do for that year it's kind of like so all we did is we delayed when we're going to start the full 995,000 right in the budget so these are all the pieces we have to look at between you know what we did in special town meeting um in August and what we did special town meeting last year we need to keep tabs on all of these pieces as we prepare the fy2 26 budget um and make sure we have all that well I just think that everybody ought to realize in this coming year that there's not going to be a lot of money to spend right and this year was supposed to I'm assuming you mean Town employees yeah this year was also the line was hold expenses to 0% zero Z increases to the best of your ability and only increase the lines where we would have things like a contract um a multi-year contract and the price of the contract was going up year over year as they do um if there's special paper that is needed for certain forms and there is in different places if the cost of that paper is going up then I think that they should be able to um make it much more clear what they really that's those are pieces I think we we we're going to be looking there's no more miscellaneous there's no more miscellaneous it it's going to be details when somebody says new equipment it's a detail with quotes and and purchase orders or um backing backing documentation um to how we're getting to these numbers right uh so going forward we have to be a it's going to be a lot tighter absolutely um yes yeah you said are you saying a zero increase for the 26 25 it was as best they could they were directed to do a z increase on their expense l on the expenses okay but that's a small portion of the of the budget of the total budget right because when I looked at it we've got a 10% in well not quite 10 9% increase on the employ side right now part of that is the oper some of the oper positions are coming into the fully exact this year so it looks like a 9% increase but it's it's an increase only in that we have to provide we have to have a revenue source to provide it at this point it is not being funded by opera on that's my point okay so I don't I don't care how it started I'm looking at this is what the time paid for the employees last year and this is what the count is paying for employees this year right and it's close to a 10% increase so so it doesn't make sense to me that we've got a 10% increase on salaries basically we have an increase we we have an increase to the wine item it's not that we have a salary increase it is um now no I know you moving some money but that's that's only part of it even if if you take out those three positions you still got an increase above two and a half% right because there there's contracts with the employees that that are authorizing exactly right we can't we have a contract and we we can't that that's where we next time we have to negotiate that it um that is better a little better it's kind of like a little better um but right now we have a contract and because there's another there's another um piece that gets affected by that and that is the health insurance right now we know everybody doesn't Avail themselves of the health insurance yes health insurance is up by 10% health insurance the the general liability insurance is are up all of those are increasing above the two and a half we don't have control over those so was kind of like yes the expenses are going up but how how do you make up for the for the items that are going up 10% will we don't have anything else to cut by going Z level funded on um on the lines we're trying to hold hold to a 20 small number but with with all of it you know it's kind of like pay for it's pay energy you know all all those different light items that we have that we're paying for just like in our houses the the increases are seen in significant the town has those same pieces so we have to um we are attempting I saw the I saw the dumpster in the in the parking lot we have a capital plan item that is updating the lights in facilities so that our and there a about a three year three and a half year on investment in the Energy savings so they will pay for themselves um but we did that with capital money and so that will be lower energy costs reflected in the FY 25 budget or could be could be um a surplus in the energy lines in these build not pretty it it's it's not I'm sorry Andrea oh I'm muttering to myself it's still tax doll no matter what it it is still tax dollars it it was just you know we we took some of the tax dollars to invest in more energy efficient technology for the lights and in the long run it will save us once we get to the three and a half year it will save us but from not having done the update we we'll be I I don't disagree with that back to healthc care you know health the healthc care line item is going to increase considerably but maybe even more than you think because it's very dependent on the uh program within health care that the person contracts for so I hopefully before we ever get around to estimating what um healthare is going to cost uh we should find out what program the employee is going to take for sure because if they increase to a greater program which they're allowed to do yeah um we may not have the money to fund it we we don't and we we have to watch that well there a contract the employee contracts too say what percentage the town pays it there there is and but the if the employee is say single employee gets married now all of a sudden you've got you're paying for a plus one so I mean we we what are we at now for a percentage that that the town pays the town cost I I don't know that number off the top my head I mean it would be in the contracts but it's been a while since I've seen them yeah so um but this year also at the end of FY 24 we did um Municipal transfer requests and put money into the healthcare line one of the problems you're going to have with that as far as I can see for this year a lot of these problems were problems that were foreseen the reserve fund is not to it's not an adjunct to the budget it's for unforeseen problems that come up and some of the some times we have had particularly the police isues to do this he would apply for something unexpected that happened in this department but things always unexpected happen this has got to be something over and above just unexpected right yeah and and again I think we put that on our list of activities to do so as I prepare the agenda for the next meeting I'll add this on there we talked about codifying some of these things what is the reserve fund for and get it out and and send it to department heads so that they know what they're responsible for and what the reserve fund is going to do um so I think that that is on us a little bit to oh cify it and um get it you know get it out and and actually publish it so that it's available on the town website either um under budgets or and or we can cross link it and also post it under finance committee um so so that that is on us to try to try to do that and and get that completed um sorry and I was starting on time number four we were going by the the um AG with throw um line in the impact the other so the rest of it was the 130 that were transferring out of Reserve fund or um not Reserve funds we're transferring out of um sorry kind of um can't yeah I know it's going of um yeah so it so we TR you know we we're taking the the 130 um and then like I say the the 550 is the big portion of it that their expectations or that's the revenue that the bag program will generate um so those total when we total up all of those lines that totals that um line for um in within the health department for for the the the trash um and again that's a one-year contract um and so as we go they need to be working on the next contract so that we can see what what the amount of the next next contract is and having a full year of the pay your for bags and see see where that I have a question yeah who I had an argument with a friend about this the other day the Board of Health I thought it was through recycling but I'm not certain now I I got lost somehow in how that was being handled um who buys the the recycling bags in the first place Bo Heth no um no it sounded like b b of Health they talked about the investing $2,000 so I'd say it had to be the um Board of Health was doing it because yeah so tax dollar um they probably do it out of their um Enterprise fund that they have for the revolving um on the recycle Cent I yeah um I thought that's what I when I mentioned the recycling cry that's what I thought at first twoo but I've been told I I don't understand where the money is going to come from that's all um the money to buy purchase the bags or to purchase the bag to purchase enough bag yeah what you talking about recycling or trash the it trash the new purple bag right Andrea said Recycling and I thought that was had nothing to do with this bag problem no sometime in the past um we I think we I I don't know if we did it at town meeting or if it was just under the power of the Board of Health to do but they purchased the extra bags not from their budget but from the money generated at recycling center M because they were just overflow bags they weren't daytoday bags right right yeah it wasn't the yeah it wasn't the quantity that we're looking at but they I'm sorry I think they changed it they changed it used to go through like Carla all right yeah but and she would distribute the bags to the stores okay but now the stores deal directly with the bag vendor right but I don't know how the money goes back and forth and then comes back here but there's a related question and that is the cost the money from those overflow bags was supposed to be dedicated to the budget for the recycling center okay that and which it's a revenue stream for the recycling center right in addition to the what what ST how are they going to split the money so to speak because you have you know 100 bags that you sell this week for regular bags and then you have overflow bags that the revenue for that is supposed to go to the recycling center expenses but you said that the um vendor I don't know interacts with the yeah I the vendor okay when I worked at mcnabs yeah what she did was and I I don't know if it's changed or not but she would put in an order to the vendor and the vendor would send her the bags and then she would collect the money as she sold them okay and she's collecting face value so there's no cost going to them so oh no no there's no cost so so the cost has to be paid by the town at that point to the bag vendor so it's it's it's a I I don't know what the bookkeeping but what concerns me more is who's going to pay for the recycling center right it and right now I believe the conversation was that they're going to still continue to use the same Enterprise fund and not set up a separate Enterprise fund and have and have to separate the the bags um eventually my understanding is that they want to set up a fund that all bag money will will flow into theow let me ask you about the Overflow bags again there's no no more overflow overlow because you can put out as much trash you want see that wasn't what I understood what I understood was you still have a limit to how many bags you can put out no limit on bag no Lim you could put out six bags if you want to and because they're all the same color you don't differentiate there there's no differentiation um it's all really what it is is based on the page and so when they did the original calculations for curite pickup it was 64 gallons per household would equate to X number of tons of trash and then anything above that you would have to buy a $3.50 bag for figuring that was the calculation now it's unlimited number of $3.50 was it the old the the Gite pickup of trash really has been eliminated and everything is considered over would look like overflow because it's all in purple bags so you don't have a limit of only putting out two purple bags except for your wallet ex ex for your wallet that's correct yeah that that is always the big piece yeah I just want to make sure that the recycle center is going to stay open that's all yeah there is there is no change to the recycle CER um the the bins that they do and the money they take in from what um the more recycling the more right no I know that but but I'm saying the Recycled Center to pay for what needs to be done for that that will it will still come out of this big budget for bags yeah I I will confirm that it's only one account and it's going to go into the same I I believe it's just we we didn't create a new Enterprise account that because we would have had to have done that at the special to meeting and voted in like we do in the annual to meeting and Enterprise account that was specifically for that so we weren't going for um a pay for throw at the special time meeting were we no no so there's a big gap on planning right there right so so after that because of the Implement on the implementation and the meetings it's kind of like we haven't had a separate request or seen anything that they want to come up with a separate warrant article to um to create an Enterprise fund so at this point because we [Music] are we are we have an account um that they can use the only thing we might need to do is increase the dollarss in that um of that uh Enterprise fund um but we'll need you know again we have to start seeing what the revenues are and taking a look at that when the state want proof that work um how much time do we have I think we have until the free cash certification we had December December January time frame but you can't get a free cash certification until you submitted your balance yeah think that it can be free cash certification is going to be for FY 24 this is an FY 25 thing so they they have asked us oh I get you for a projection of where in a balance of where we are with with the revenue at that time so right so that they can look at it and and identify it that um we are on target um and again with the with the initial um I expect to see a huge Spike I mean if if everybody buys just one roll of bags which is five bags which is five bags for $17 for for $17 but so we're going to have that Spike but that said if everybody only buys one one roll that's 15,5 100 bags for October 1 not everybody's going to go not everybody's going to use them there is you know if I think the target was 80 85% um use so but but but again not everybody's going to buy one roll some people going to buy two three maybe four um well it seems to me they will have to buy more because five bags takes care of one month if you only put out one bag right so I think it in yeah so I mean there's a lot of this but um again that that production and that amount if every if every one of the 3100 homes is buying bags that's the minimum you had to have with with one one roll being the only purchase I think it's going to be more like two people are going to try to buy two rolls as a minimum um and so that says that 30,000 bags have to be produced and ready and available for that October 1st date so I mean I know it's just a numbers game but we live through Co and toilet paper this is true a supply and demand in the beginning excuse me for interrupting the um where is the money this extra bags that we need to get if if the thing plan was still in place as before then mcnabs would order that and then go get the money from I don't I I still I I can't in my mind successfully follow the flow of money okay okay um back back in the day I worked with a billing department in when they were billing our service contracts and they had what they called bobos bill on behalf of um and so what happens is mcnabs would call the manufacturer say I need bags they would deliver bags to mcnabs and then a bill would come to Board of Health that said I delivered this this many bags to mcnabs then mcnabs would sell the banks at $17.50 a roll when whatever that the determination is whether it's weekly monthly they would send their money and their sales information to Board of Health and say I sold this many here's the here's the money for it so then the revenue comes back from these vendors it both handc okay so I have 17 uh um you know I take the bags and expect to sell so many what if I fall way short of that then and the money doesn't go to where it needs to go what then well that's wa gave my gu exactly so we need we need to try to sit with them and there there is our team and we and Carol Hy is our representative on it so we need to take a look closer at that um and see where it is and see what the plans are for um for monitoring it and Reporting on costs and revenues um because one of the things that the auditor had picked up on is we need to get better at our cash flow tracking using cash you not using cash but when we take cash in as a payment yeah I know make sure it gets into the bank how much money do we take in and how much got to the bank is that a new position no it's not creating another we're not creating another position we're just saying what is the tracking mechanism the town has in place to make sure when I pay $30 at the recycling center that they get my check for $30 in the Board of Health and they deposit it into the into the account the problem is using cash the the problem is yeah cash how do how do you write so why are we going to the now okay they pick up recycling yeah there's no more bag limit so why are we going to the recycling center well the recycling center is your big item your washer dryer that you want to get rid of your propane tanks the recycling center really isn't a recycling center for your household recycl recycling for mattresses mattresses tires yard waste and all of that they take care of all that they take yard waste because they're they have a big composting effort out right and then after it compost you can go pick up the composted material yeah yeah and bring it and tread it so they they have a very good system but that that's why the recycling center is there it's not for the house but they still do take cash and I think you have to pay cash when you go to mcaps to get the bags too mcnabs is Cash yes I don't know how I always get them at mcns or here yes well it it should be cash because otherwise they're putting it through on the on a credit card credit card companies charges right so right and checks bounc right so so when I read the materials Haniford says they will take it on the Hanford line it said they will take credit cards or cash for the banks so they probably have a good credit card exchange and and charging they do um you know much more than a small business small business gets gets hit with a two and a half% transaction fee in a 50 c fee per transaction so plus you get you got different accounts that things right and somebody I also heard and and I don't know how it will work here um they have it in Rockport and Rockport if you buy at the stores they charge tax on it because garbage bags are a taxable item oh so they probably have it just coded in in their systems as a as a tax I'm sure they do yeah so that that's a piece on you know how how it all goes I don't know never having bought any overflow bags I can't tell you how it how it works and whether whether it is taxable not taxable excuse me um before you said you didn't know the process for things coming in like this in the past now I'm not saying this is what they're doing now I I have no idea but um things like that and Grant monies that come in stuff are supposed to go to the treasurer you know and then they go out down to the account but for for noting they're for by the uh Treasurer the other thing I wondered if you charged and took taxes does it that tax money go to us isn't that kind of then like that would be like a state sales tax and it would go to the state with oh all right yeah yeah it's it's not a it's not a not a local tax okay I just wondered how you accounted for how it would be accounted yeah y that's that's that's my piece and again not knowing whether whether they're tax when you when you when you buy um it either the location it's kind I I suspect it's just a flat 1750 but not having done it it's it's a guess but I will be buying my purple bags as soon as I can find them well I I was told and I believe they said it at the Forum too was um uh the cost to the individual other than the bag the the that Hanford and mcns charge us nothing right yeah so they now we're causing them to do more work they have to have an employee do some of this stuff and there's a whole lot more volume I would expect that they would charge us something we we'll see how it goes I I suspect they like the foot traffic if you have to come in their store and you weren't really planning to come in their store um yeah you you buy your bags and a steak when you leave yes I understand yeah or you you pick up your edille or or aspirin or you know right um so yeah I mean foot traff foot traffic for for businesses is is always I would say usually appreciated it's kind of like um if if it gets overwhelming for them I'm sure they'll let you know they'll let us yeah they'll let us know and there will be addition addition the trouble is they will let us know and I agree with that yeah however will we have any money to address what they let us know see they they're just it just doesn't it go together well you know it doesn't you start at this point go to this point around here and this is fun it doesn't it doesn't form a nice solid plan in my mind yep so and those are the pieces I I haven't seen all the slides they um they had presentations at the senior center and the one here at Town Hall um they had multiple versions of the slide this one Thursday again to okay here umor Senior Center and then Touch a Truck I think they're going to do some things up at the library oh really during that um I did get the mailer in the mail today it didn't have it only had a few of the slides information um and on Channel 9 I have seen a few of the slides rotate around too but I haven't not sure I've seen the whole deck yeah um so yeah um I wanted to throw it throw it in here that we talk about it is something we're going to need to be to keep an eye on and be a part of and see see what um what they are and where where the revenues are you know it's kind of like um other they're reporting how the expenses go um the like I say from the audit committee side um the Auditors had already told us that we need to tighten up on our um on the cash flow process you know how do how do we how do we know that we're getting into into the accounts everything that was that was paid so that are they guaranteeing that they're G have enough bags on hand they should yeah the um the manufacturer was in the September 11th um and he said they had enough bags of heard things like he said he park a truck here loaded with bags that when they ran out did like 30,000 bags or something and the 30,000 bags to me would be would be the right number that's about twice as many if you need to KCK and the smaller one smaller bags don't come on until January January yeah kind of so those you know those are the pieces but we'll see how it goes and and again that all all of those numbers that all this is predicated on I believe an 80% participation in one and a half bags per house so I'm looking to see 3100 is the number that they've used I have a stupid question if it's one and a half bag is it one and a half small bags or one and a half big bags or one big bag and one small bag because price that they generate is different you you really don't want me to show you do you no I let me let me show you I I have not met with anybody yet um but um I put together a couple of couple of sides let me blow it up a little bit and we'll just work on the top um or let me go to the bag and a half it's kind of like please please yeah it's kind of okay so I'm I'm going to lose the titles so if I look at one and a half bags if I say 3100 at $3.50 um the First Column is weekly quarterly and then the N9 month value so um and that's just if we use the full 3100 so then I calculated on what's the participation over here if it's 75% 80% 85% what are the dollars in the 9mon um realm that we would be getting so as they said at one and a half on the large bags now I did not calculate any small bags into the 2025 fiscal year calculations um but when I get to fisal year 2026 I started I I have it I haven't put in um I want to take these 3100 and drop that to say 2500 and then here that would be 600 on the small bags something like that um and then we can start doing doing the math and seeing how it comes out um and getting the total so is kind of there there's ways of doing it I I just started messing with it but this is the this is the kind of piece that and numbers we want to see and then we want to compare back as we whether you know what's the calculation is it tonnage that Shaws brings to the dump and then they tell us how much how much ton that was and we do the math back to how many bags that equivalent equates to I don't believe we've ever gotten a scale out of the dump so I don't think they can give you an act an actual accurate right so you know so is it that we go out and do a do a sample count we we ride in the truck with them or ride on the back of the truck so um and and just do a sample you know um we do timbery Park you know one one trip a first truck through timbery Park one morning and um you know on the Western West in West towns and do it do it on another day just to get an idea how many you know so we're going to know how many sold so we're going to know the revenue that's easy knowing how much we're throwing is going to be the variable you know so so there there's the two halves of it there's the revenue plus than the the other side of it so um there's there's at least been some thought to it I I don't know how this compares to any anything that um uh I guess you just have to wait and see that yeah that the team's working with so I I have you know and I I was um I'll set up to time with Carol and uh and go over it and find out when the next page of meeting is and see what they have me um last time and the only time I've ever been to the dump a dump around here that takes you know of the waste from towns and all or these big trucks uh they drove across the scale I mean we had to drive across the scale then um drive back across the scale on the way out and pay for whatever was dumped right yep so therefore yeah every truck that Shaws takes to the dump gets weighed in and weighed back out right because that's that's the tear you know that's that's the tear we and or the Tipping fees and when we look at what we had present been presented for the fiveyear plans they had the Tipping fee listed individually so they had the Tipping fees and so that that is extra work and we have to see what if Char will do that for us so that we can we can see the measures you know it's kind of like I said we're going to we're going to know Bank sales um because we have the revenue numbers we're not the we're not see we won't see the other the other side of it so that's that's the piece that um I'll bring to um to the pay your throw team and and see if if they have any plans for the measuring on the back side um to see so that we can we can compare Revenue revenues to to pretty much costs or or bags bags being used I think what you've got there is is a very good place to start thank you yeah it again that's just one person's thought of thought of how how do we measure it and it's kind of like and if we could actually measure the participation then then we get into into that point of being able to um see where we are do we have you know the 75% participation and how many bags are we we going to have to have and and what is a potential shortfall that may also help us with proving to the state um that it is a viable Revenue source and and a um reliable that it's going to hit the target that we sa so that they can it will approve what we're doing um because that's the piece it's kind of like I think it's more about matching the balanced budget that we're submitting for FY 25 that they would be looking at is to make sure that the revenues we're projecting are are on target um and able to hit it speaking in that same vein how far out of a Balan budget are we now well that all that that all depends on what you what you know it's kind of like because we took the 100,000 the extra 100,000 from ambulance receipts because we decreased a couple of lines because we C back some of the special article money um and because we're moving um that 130,000 [Music] um in St sorry stabilization the stabilization money that's that's what we're out we're out of it for fy2 we're only out of balance by the 550 that they're hoping it that that that they're planning for Revenue coming from the pay you throw program so does does that answer it yeah thank you yeah so that's where we are for fy2 for FY 26 all of those things that I that I said the the the U 475 for the police cruisers is going back up to 95 next year the 100 100,000 the fire chief set up may not be there um the 130 from stabilization is not going to be there those are these are non-recurring funds that we're bringing into this year and we're using the stabilization fund as a loan this year waiting for free cash certification because because of the real estate sales that we had during FY 24 and we know there should because of that there should be in excess of free cash that we can pay back the stabilization fund that is the only reason why we had discussed it and and did it so we need you know just follow follow on with them and make sure that when we have the free cash certification that we're out there with a with a Warren article that says transfer to stabilization and love it to be more um okay so um so that's a little bit of page you throw and f 25 budget um I did send out um the other pieces um I sent minutes from uh the special town meeting of November 14th of 2023 and I'll just touch on this I don't um to go too to long on you okay so come back in here and open it um when we go back and look at what we did last November um in in the FY 24 budget um the last Town Administrator allowed us to put in the full dollar value for the positions so like on line seven the community services coordinator was 66,000 and we reduced it to 10,000 because that difference of the 56,000 was oper money paying in FY 24 in fy2 five we're going to take that 66620 up it by the the salary position probably four 4% like every other salary line and we're putting in 20 this year so with that we still have approximately 4 475,000 that we're going to have to bring back into the budget or know that it's it's not recurring Revenue so we have to watch that as we move forward and really push for the fiveyear so that we see when oper funds can no longer be used which is December of December 31st calendar of 26 which is the first half of FY 27 that we can afford all of these lines I don't know if we can afford all these lines we can some of them have already been brought in so we and this is where FY 24 versus 25 the fire the Fire EMS wages um have been brought in fully in 2025 the police salary was fully brought in um the and then so we we have to look at the lines the other the other one um that we they should yeah okay uh conservation there my understanding was and I don't see it um so we must not have changed it that Council on Aging I believe had a position that was still oper funded community servic community services coordinator moved from the board of selectman into the senior center um it it it may have I I know when we first put it in it was $10,000 coming from Senior Center and then the rest of the salary was coming from yeah but I think in this budget it moved totally it moved totally to coun on Aging 25 that's what I remember yep that's that's why I wanted to bring all of these pieces that are that are hide they could be hiding that we want to bring in and make sure um that I keep questioning whether we need all these positions we didn't have them before and right seem to get along just quite well well and if you talk to the employees um there's some I imagine quite a wide range of opinions on that very subject and and and those those are the pieces it when we when we start looking at the budget but we look at FY 26 those those are the question those are questions that we're really going to have to take take a look at Mr chair yeah I if you don't mind I think that I think that what Jerry's may be pointing to too is um I I feel the same you know and and yeah you can look at the numbers and you guys can massage the numbers and do all the jections but our leaders our Board of Selectmen need to say what are our priorities for the town right and I didn't hear that this year and I'm certainly hoping I'm going to hear it from the next board and and because you know you can't treat everything equally because everything is not equal it it is not it's kind of like and I think we we look at the Town administrators that in in the history that we've had with ton administrators we had somebody that wanted to be really in control and and do everything and that transitioned to an interim then we got two years of somebody that had a legal background and we were counting on that legal background to do a little bit more of the legal work and not go to a Town Council all the time so um but they can't be no but if if and and this is the balance that I think we have well they should have known better than no if you the primary responsibility is the board of Selectmen is budgeting it that is their first priority right and the and the thing that they should be the most concerned about because we look to them to spend money wisely and and again I I look at at some of them and and it was a transition when we when we transitioned from the the the controlling Town Administrator um he maybe didn't have as much of a legal background so he had to depend heavily on Town Council which would drive up a Town Council well no hold on because that's not true as part of the base Town Council charge unless they significantly changed the contract from when I was on there the B charge is that he's there for all kinds of things that you need on a day-to-day basis he is there for all that this this was in addition to it some of some of so you're talking about litigation kinds of some litigation kinds of things that they didn't need so now you're you're you're taking if you divide out a town administrator's hours that the person prior didn't have the we we had higher legal bills and they come down some of the legal bills transferred to the Town Administrator line because he was doing some that that litigation stuff but he needed help on HR HR is a very timec consuming issue when Once okay for for codifying and things like that yes it's kind of like but if you have if so HR work can be very very T to me so if you if you have that work to be done not not not the one time cify but the ongoing management for 100 employees you don't have much on boarding and exiting here no it's it's not that so much I had five employees in a call center I spent 20 20% of my time with a prod child it's kind of like that so and that's what you're paying legal counsel for but it's not no that's what you're paying H for you're not paying legal Council to bhr so in in that case we juggled a little of money instead of upping the legal cost it came over and the HR so all all the pieces that they were that are trying to be balanced I can understand why some of the people some of the Physicians were there are they needed there going forward that those those are the questions that we have to answer um so we'll we'll see you know it the skill set of each Town Administrator is different and so we have to support the Town Administrator with with what they need and what our expectations are of the work that they want they want them to do we set the um the um job description I don't think I don't know I'm not sure that we hired Eric as part-time lawyer we hired him as an administrat we we H we hired him as an administrator and took advantage that he still had his law degree and he was still licensed and so that we were able to do that and keep our legal bills down it's kind of like but again that was time he was spending on the legal bills you know for legal work and if it's litigation that he spent a good amount of his time on was then then some of that litigation ended up coming out in our increase in our liability other insurance I should say not the um squeezing the balloon do you know what I'm saying and yes and and that's what we're doing we're squeezing the balloon with the number of hours they have available and and trying to stuff in there how much they can handle I think I think to Jerry's point I mean talk about HR from my perspective once they've come in and as you said c codified all of the stuff we've got good you know we're in good shape in terms of our policies and you know we're consistent across the board with pan looks that's fine yeah that is the kind of job that you typically would pay a consultant to do it's in and out done right all right and then you hire somebody on an as needed basis to handle other things and then you don't have to worry about health insurance and you don't have to worry about all the other yeah yeah those there's other ways to get to where you need to go regionalization is one of them yeah yep it's kind of like so those are I'm just hoping that I start hearing those kinds of conversations I'm sure there will will be conversations but again I I look at this and something that's sort of hidden from here is I look at the it part of the budget um and that's that's a little bit of a scary part moving forward is who's going to be giving direction to the contractor and be the interface to the contractor going forward kind like what do you mean um the interface had been a Selectmen before so now you don't have anybody that but we don't know that we won't get one that has that type of background exactly I have not I think that we've had so much trouble with it in various ways that perhaps we what's really needed is to sit down and um reexamine the contract go over it to get a contract that fits our need and then the board managers not just an individual an individual isn't supposed to do that because that gives them an overwhelming amount of power right and well it's the charter it's in violation of the charter for the selectman to be involved in the day-to-day administration of the Town exactly and and and I mean I have a real problem with with that it's Ming not well no it's it's going over your your ta your ta is supposed to be the one that's that's administering the day-today stop so that's just I bring it up as a budget item that we don't we don't have an IT director we don't have money in there we only have money to pay for equipment and contract and what we end up getting back to and I think you're you're hinting at this what are our priorities what what are the priorities and how are we going to manage it it's kind of like in a budget going forward um that when you look at the big picture when when you look at the big picture of the town do we have enough positions and people in positions to function as a town or um maybe you got to do a little sh one maybe it is either the shuffling I I haven't been been able to sit down with Nelson yet um and discuss what his background is me you know it's kind of like but both Selectmen that had things to do with it whether they were on the it they the liaison they they have all liaison pieces that they that they have um so um those those pieces are changing and both both people that were involved with the it section are gone so it's kind of like so it's going to and we're not going to have new selection in place until November 16th or the M probably the Monday following so say that that's Nelson's right so I think at this point he he needs to he needs to step up and run it's kind of like but does he know you know does he know all the pieces that the where where all the pieces are that I think he's probably too new to I think that's kind of the the um I um I I know I like Nelson and he seems to be very sharp and goes on you do realize that this is the first position as an administrative assistant he's ever had he was the head of the DPW before yeah he is he is just now fing um think I think he's learning and I think he's reading and I think he's studying and he's trying to get it all in but you can only cram in so much in a short time right and so we we have to work and share our knowledge with him um just go after expect to do it yep so so again that's one of the reasons why I want to sit down with him and and hit that and and see if if he's aware of what what things may have been going on and um whether he's got plans for them or if he has to learn about them and make sure that they don't fall through the cracks so um okay sorry there's been lots of conversations back and some of it is the budget and Beyond like I say I don't know if you know items items that we don't want to fall off the off the table and we need to keep track of I don't want them to be surprises you're partway in FY 26 and all of a sudden you find you need a new position um those are the kinds of things we want to try to bring out work through and um make sure sure that we have answers for as as we're going in um and I know one of the things I talked about I would like to see when we get grants and when we have new positions that are hired in the board of Selectmen Do It um and and do appointments that if this if if we had a budget and had a position and in a certain number of positions in the salary set when they hire in partly through the year that there is a document that's signed off that shows where the money's coming from to pay the position or the expense um or when you we take a grant what follow on monies may need to be paid or what requirements Financial requirements they have on the town so that we have a signature and a copy I think we take grants but I don't know that there's a sign off and approval other than a Voice vote it says we approve um so I'd like again getting into writing and traceability those will be on my list of things that I'd like to work with the Selectmen to uh to follow up on and see that see that reference okay long long pieces so far um next item on the agenda setting next meeting dates um I didn't necessarily have anything planned um I will say in my correspondence and I had just mailed it out uh so we have a copy of it um and so maybe I'll I'll jump to seven and talk correspondents we received a letter in an invitation from Brad Morgan to have a an all towns um Financial Summit with um follow with the local rep representatives and Senators as as well as the three towns to start talking about the North Middle sex 2026 budget and that's October 1st what time uh I didn't read it October October 1 the time is in the the the letter the email yeah so this going to be posted as a public it should be posted it should be a public meeting Y what time is that um just looking at it now it's 6:00 p.m. at North Middle SE yeah at the high school yep okay that's for all Finance people and open to the public it's um my understanding was it was open to the public but the invitation is to fincom and select the invitation was to select yeah yeah and and count administrators yeah uh Margaret Scarsdale John Cronin um Andrew Nelson and Mary from as uh and then the rest and Edward Kennedy so because we crossed boundaries and representatives I guess or Senators yeah I'm sorry yeah yeah I think he's PE Senator and Cronin is ours and as so that's one of the correspondents the other um I will get out um I only had a hard copy today um when Ross was here on August 5th they sent a letter to um superintendent Morgan that was talking about working within a tighter assessment increase um of only 3% next year so it's kind of so that may be what precipitated comes into that budget meeting that they're having yeah yeah so um and so I'll probably have to there was a properties committee meeting that night so I may have to take out does it say what night that is um um Tuesday okay so um it does not say if there's going to be a remote dial into to it not but probably in the same location that the last one was um so th those were the two you know uh two correspondents um regarding the schools um we did receive um volunteer so it's like I said when we schedule our next meeting I'll invite them to the meeting so okay um and discuss what our what the roles you know a little bit what the roles are where um where we're at and as we know as we get to the end of the fiscal year our our time commitment really goes up so they may not necessarily understand what the what the time requirement is um or whether it matches with the schedule that they may have um so now next meeting if we're going to do in two weeks October 1st we're going to be meeting there do we want and going to the uh school meeting through want to go for October 15 as our next meeting I would think so um keep it at 6 o'clock for [Music] now yeah 6m yeah um and then we'll we'll start schedule hang on the 15th or what did I say October 15 um I think we're I think we're fine I don't think the select me can have a meeting that night because that's the third Tuesday okay and that would be after the second resignation so um I will double check I will ask for tkm and uh see if there's no conflicts and and if it is then we'll go to meeting room too okay so I I will double check on the 15th but for now let's the 15th at 6 o00 um that looks wild yep and then when we hit October then we'll then we'll start talking about our next meeting after that I at this point I don't know how far out we need to go and it's kind of hard but we and again the action for everybody other the members is to review items 1 through three on our byw and if you want to get and jump ahead and be the teachers fat you can look at four five and six and if we can get them all done in one whack then we'll get it done and move on these are the bylaws these are the bylaws yeah what day did you suggest for the next meeting 6 PM um October 15th October 15 o C15 thank you thank you very much okay and under that that's it for meeting dat I'm only setting one we'll we'll move on um I did just want to touch on the Financial Training reference documents not really yeah I had U received two links um to two different files which I was able to download they don't sell the books anymore and so now we have to print and it's 169 Pages no per document um so I'm going to speak with people in town hall and see if we want to print black and white on the machines here or if I take the files and go to Staples and get them printed out but I still want to do the two copies um plus if anybody needs it we have the electronic copy for the MMA Financial Training document so I do believe we have some expense money that that could be spent yeah we we still under dues and subscriptions I'd say that's a good you know that's that's a place we could do it and if we get them printed and bound um at Staples they'll they'll they'll be able to stay together because 169 pages is you know it's kind of like it's something you want to keep get B and uh keep together and then we'll then we'll have them in a library and available for for Mr chair yes if you have people who volunteered to you know that you said you were going to be interviewing yeah might want to send them a link so that they can look at that yeah yeah that's we we're stared to do that have and that's that's a piece that we want to build on the finance website is we you go for different pieces of that so not only the reference here but references to the MMA sites and the and the do or DS but those people you said you wanted to talk yeah you know so it might be a good thing to just pop off to them y y I'll double check and see that I thank you that's a good good idea okay so I am ready to entertain a motion to adjourn at 7:30 make a motion to adjourn I'll second that thank you Andrea um roll call vote Geral bazik is yes Andre wood yes Dan Grant yes joh Hayes yes and I thank you all we are now adjourned at 7:30