##VIDEO ID:7oWIVZztH74## okay everybody has call meeting order 601 this is the C finance committee Mee in the S Chambers for January 23rd at 6m meeting is called the order at 6:02 PM as we have remote members call voice please JN bazas David Walker Carol hes Mary Jane Churchville Don Hayes samam Grant okay we have six members present um and that is a quorum we are good to continue um this meeting is being recorded uh for playback on Channel 9 it may be played live and it is also uploaded to the YouTube channel uh so all should be aware that four thein additions or deletions what I would like to do is change not change other than um I would like to do the assessor before the treasurer today so we're going to go to and Swap and session to is there anything not part to my attention that needs to be on the agenda tonight hey no additions uh we'll continue um tonight's session We are continuing our review with departmental budget we'll start with the Assessor coule question you okay um okay everybody question it's not big no it's really big I just have one question yeah on the percent change is that up or down or do we have or is it different are they all the same say what do you mean so FY 25 to F it's 5.2% change increase oh yeah it's increase okay I see I don't have a negative sign I get it okay I'm sorry 52 that looks like the treas is it ify 25 or 26 26 we're doing FY 26s yeah heading yeah we're in fy2 now right so the request is for fy2 we're looking at we're looking at the treasurer one right now not the Assessor ohas Collector right no we're looking at the assessors notas oh my God there we go okay okay so you couldn't answer okay [Music] all right now I feel better link to it's after the blue section so that the blue tab the first one got it account number1 so you see 141 141 141 um so what we'll see here is we we'll go back and and talk to Melissa but you're right you see that the FY 25 colum that's what it was for the current year and the FY 26 colum is what it's going to change to on the assessment on the assessment on the ass but the same but the same thing Falls true for the collector that you saw that was just a typo okay so FY 26 and the seconded okay let's just do One's On First okay what there is there was a wrong page it was the wrong person I was on the with with this it's kind of like um um if we go do we want to review the summary page or the deta page sum the summary just summarizes the information on the D page and so maybe we go to the page sure look at that and then make sure the other thing I like to do is make sure that value is carried through in formulas to the front page so if we start with the labor sheet which is lab page one page one but lab in the middleb worksheet is the worksheet name is going to be in the middle of the bottom in the other way they have it set up um okay so have wages yeah the wages um and you'll see did they go down oh no that's eight I thought it was a three yeah it's it's a little small but a little that's okay so we're going with 63 to 68 right we're gonna we're gonna save someh I thought that was three oh no it's an eight it's an eight and I will say that that percentage is two 2% 2% we don't yeah we don't have in front of us um and we know that the recommendation had been uh 4% 2% step 2% 2% for the annual raise 2% um let's talk about clothes clothes yeah clothing allowance cor right contct I don't understand that okay certain positions in the unions will have clothing allowances the Assessor's department is one of them they go up and they do field surveys oh they have to wear an outfit or clothes that you don't want boots and what oh I see they go the oh field outfit okay yeah because that's like if you're a girl you would say what's with the clo CL it recently increased last year it increased from 600 to 8825 and so you're still in the current contract at at 825 okay that's good and then what's long because I've been here so long oh too long yeah so you'll see some long oh I get it so it's like some five yeah five a teacher and you had Bachelor Masters get it so longevity is based on us of service to the town and you you'll see some employees don't have them because they're relatively new others have lower amounts so is that like Union requirements is that no that's that's not just Union we had it before we had a union I think that's state requirements or um yeah so before the unions we we still doing longevity it just continues this okay at the same level that's good now we know all that that's very good well and that's a piece of all this question we have I should be like that's okay good well I mean yeah so sorry okay so that's so we have two people in the department two people in the department oh oh the Administration Assistant clerk yeah she's getting her two or he's getting his they okay plus two% right it's kind of in and oh is this 1,000 longevity yeah but it's not same as yours no CU she hasn't been here as long as long I think it jumps up in increments of five years I believe so I wouldn't guys so sorry yeah but no CL supervisor the same same amount yeah yeah so why wouldn't that say longevity instead of other uh just because I didn't change the line item she's got her own field so so it's 2% and 2% again okay 2% for both both call it they both have longevity but they have different amounts because and they both have clothing good okay that's that's it that's your budget that's that's the salary budget that's the right and is she s or she no she's hourly hourly okay so I don't many hours do she work a week 35 35 does that allow her to have um benefit insurance 20 20 hours 20 hours is the 19 hours is the cut off 19 hours so how is that calculated where does that come from it's not per Department um it is it is not benefits are packag packaged and usually covered and we'll see that in in the treasur of collectors she has a lot of okay those health insurance is presented by the Town Administrator so a little bit of both but some gotta yeah so they they're not um each department is not responsible for each each piece they they you don't see health insurance in here but I think it's good for us to know that and maybe pass it on that are two and we call them full-time equivalents but there's also two full-time equivalent benefited positions in so as we go in each department you may find um less benefit you know you you may have full-time equivalent like the library for instance they have seven or eight or 10 part-time people but it says fulltime equivalent is [Music] four but no benefited positions for that so they have a formula for a full-time equivalent like how many fulltime equivalent sorry I'm sorry go ahead FTE whatever the job description is so if a job is 35 hours a week or 40 hours a week that's considered a 1.0 FTE half if a a person it's a halftime um then it's a 0.5 Y and if it's a quarter time then it's yeah okay B on one one yeah I used to manage of Workforce that was we used to count them in t oh okay yes down to the T we can do that Division and you can have you know four and a half yeah okay yeah so yeah you're right so Department can have a bunch of people and still only have yeah y okay got it and N benefited so that's why there's a different and that at the end that helps us calculate how many health insurance do you get health insurance through the state how does that work I'm just curious if there a cost benefit I mean does the state have like a Statewide for Municipal Employees or the town the the town goes out and gets insurance fotes and we Ure okay it's not like they go to the state to be covered by the state right it's we don't do that no we discuss all that during the benefit s yeah okay okay all right so off the supplies paper I'll send okay so you caught the FSA yeah how did you catch that um we we have copies of the BBA along with us so um and um appro SE tax um we compare we were comparing lines on the BBA to what was presented and there's a line in here that says on the board of assessors on the BBA um it says other FSA and it was not on I didn't put it in the budget so I've included it now and I'll send you guys an updated one that's um it's that's a union benefit for uh the person that works for me it's like that HSA FSA they put so much money on for the health yeah yeah are you saying that the town contributes that because I know my wife's FSA she contributes the money they the her Union they get $250 if they choose to do from the town from the town from the town oh okay so that's a union that's not on no I forgot to put it so I'm gonna give you guys an update when I'll send to there I see it so would it be on the wages sheet on the labor work that's where it should be under the assess question software that's not no that's software that's not the copier right I'm on a copier you're on The copier that's no copers for me okay so that's just regular software required updates yeah there's not a repair and maintenance line on your expense no is that so you're not planning on doing any maintenance next year well the the only thing that we actually have in our office is our software okay yeah everything else is computer supped by the town yeah using using software from the Microsoft Office licenses all of that is covered in the in the it so each budget does not have their own it budget okay it's a general it budget for the whole town which we'll find so so why is their repair and maintenance for last year this year because things were they were written up weird like I so we changed just changed the titles so this the repair and maintenance now is the assessment software okay yeah one of the things that we we did do in our reviews last year was notice that that the descriptions weren't really telling us gotta okay so you just changed that line I mean it was like that forever and I just left it like that until they question I'm like yeah it doesn't make any sense yeah now on the um training are you required to um have cert certific certific I certification and uh right now um Jody the administrative person is taking classes so that she can take over for me when I retire oh I see or at least that would be the game plan right you we'll we'll see training in several budgets way um couple years ago we started a program um the Town Administrator came in and T about um how we plan for future it's kind of like Vicki is going to join our ranks pretty soon I would we have a succession plan we have a succession plan for several departments it it again we we have to be prepared that's good move in order to be prepared we felt the town would support the employees by training them to be able to move up yeah that's great that's great yeah because it's so hard with Municipal jobs now you can't get anybody nobody's there's nobody out there yeah and if you've got an employee that's willing to commit to you good to know so that's that's we'll see that in a couple of budgets but this is the first one we're went into it here just what is Professional Services is that that's for mrpc they do our map changes oh okay mon Regional plan yeah they do the maing we know them oh yeah I know them I do know open space and Recreation committee I wonder if that plan have approved by the state unbelievable so so this year you have a dues and memberships line but it's not in the budget right now yeah I added it in I send you guys an updated one oh so we're gonna get it updated upated again comparing b400 okay so that'll stay the same as last year right exactly when you look at it you can see there was a difference that went down so um I started with counting the lines and you know just real remedial stuff and say you know there's eight here and seven here and this is the woman we let you m yeah just make it make it to our benefit for our text so the only increase really is just in that software business yeah yeah and it's going down by a little bit by a little bit yeah yeah that's incredible how come it went down because I usually ask um 5% increase and I actually called them this year to find out ahead of time what they were gonna yeah because we've been finding these forecasting things are not working out well yeah we like the actual nice um but we'll mention it where it's here because and if you would um talk to it because I I've been here and seen it before but we' got the three so the data verification warn article once a year we get money replenished in there because if we don't use it all we can move it forward to the next fiscal year rather than having it as a line item in here and it's do the cyclical inspections and so sometimes depending on the weather and that kind of thing you don't get out you can't you don't use up all the money and you can carry it forward and then this past time when we had to do we actually outsourced it and we had built up enough in the um line item because you have to every 10 years everything's got to be looked at that's mandated by the state and we just finished up so we've got another 10 years to replenish to get ready to do it again oh okay so how did the Outsourcing work versus the uh was a lot quicker was Yeah well yeah because we had like three people from that company that went out and canvased whether where it would just be me we used to have somebody in house that did it then they got rid of that position we couldn't we couldn't find anybody because it wasn't enough hours so then we kind of absorbed it but then realized we didn't have time to do it all the two of you yeah so when you when we did have that one person how was that salary versus Outsourcing I mean how much more I guess you'd have to I'd have to go back and look well just I'm really just curious yes because you'd be paying that person every year correct like for the Outsourcing we it was only three years oh I it was more money of course how cost thing on it just so I'm sorry don't y so this 8,000 for last year and 10,000 for this year that's money that we're building up for the next round yeah okay yeah and so is does that so that's not reflected in your budget numbers up here right no but if you look at if you look on here I believe show does it show on here yeah yeah that's this one but it shows up zero yeah oh they must just put it in before they printed these out for you guys because it was know would is it A1 account um no it's a0000 Z so it's kind of oh you know what they moved it they moved it to they changed the warn articles the last they on they were on the end of the sheet now instead of the so if we had a full BV okay see it on on the end oh okay okay um okay so so this is a warrant AR so does that mean this is something that has to get voted on at the special town meeting not special town meeting it gets voted on every year at the annual town meeting okay so so this will have to get voted on yep at the at the at the May town so that's okay so that's I wanted and we're dealing with one articles this is just going to be another one but it's for Rie Rie of the property so that we can so is the 10,000 that we're putting for fy2 set is that just a number that you pick or well we have to we've got along with the um cyclicals the state now mandates that our 504 is our um utilities uni which is UN gas and un electric we used to be able to do our own um appraisal on those now they make us Outsource that so it's $2,000 free it's 2,000 2,000 so it's $4,000 so that's included in there we have to pay it 10,000 yeah yeah okay so another state mandate exactly un believeable matter fact we have three and one's Mass Electric but it's such a small number and I said I refuse to because it's not even going to bring in enough money to cover the $2,000 that I have to pay out and they agreed so 2,000 no 4,000 4,000 State mandated oh and and question you don't get anything no but we do get quite a bit of money from un and they take a okay that's pretty now is that gonna change with the with this uh new it won't have anything to do with what not the personal property no okay I was going to say that's our rate piece on the electricity that travels the line anything else stays with by un so everything that they will continue to be un okay um any further questions or so will the 10,000 get added to to this no 10,000 will go to a warrant article line that I guess at the end of the okay yeah it's it's at the end of the bbaa so so it's going to stay at the end it's not going to get right and when we do them and articles the money stays in the account and can travel across fiscal years right so we approve it now for FY 26 if we don't use it all it's still there in FY 27 different than free cash if we put it into the budget and didn't use it we'd have to wait for it to be certified before we could use it again by having it in that budget if if Vicki needs it early in the year in FY 26 it'll be there to be used and and so is there any carry is do we anticipate any carryover from this fiscal year yeah how much do we think um I want to say I think we probably have 15,000 in there and then but and then within 10 within 10 years we're basically going to spend that y to do the to do the survey yeah yeah so I I would say probably uh I'm trying to think what what our update was was it for 24 so by 34 we have to have done it again so probably when it gets to be like 32 29 30 we start looking because it takes a few years okay to do it and my then will have built up yeah a decent amount of money so that should cover that yeah and we won't have to go through a special Town vote for that because if as long as we've been voting the Articles year by year oh I see yeah so we we're trying to keep up with it with a little bit of a year into this account I think last time I I wanted to take money out of my overlay yeah see and that's the piece it's kind of like and that gets to one of the reasons I'll go back to the um elections we we had a lot of elections last year um and we did the election fund but we did a turn article similar for that so we put $22,000 in an election fund so you could have level funded operating budgets but pull from there when you had and a year with a lot of Elections so this is this is similar to that I just wanted people to see it happens across the two departments okay that we do that kind of and again I just want to go back and touch the 2% umy told me that because at the to of the scale there was no room to go more than 2% so I don't know what the what the rules are but that that seems like when you hit the top of the scale you don't go beyond it you mean for salary increase salary increases yeah I mean that's how the federal government works see some of the unions did it so they fixed them so I'm going to go to my tell them I want mui so I get the 4% I shouldn't we just give everybody else two I don't think that would be so does this cost living thing happen every year yes pretty much we'll see what the well if you don't do the if you don't do a cost of living then your Matrix is Matrix is out of whack within five years and 2% isn't even the Cola in general it's should be based on the inflation rate which I think it was 3.78 or something dep know but it doesn't take consideration situation financially that's the part the part it's very distressing um that it leaves out the people who are paying MH yeah interesting so I've never gotten Co never 30 years I've never gotten a call no I get that oh it's a tight year again you get yeah have a job you work for the state or the federal government you'll get a call can change and Sam I'm sorry kind of like sort of left you out um did you hear all the conversation yes I've been listening on mute but listening okay y I just wanted to see if you had any questions no uh everything seems you got everything in there all three all of you do or many okay and I will mention it now um I'll get a book down to we all we all have um very well put together binders um see I it up yeah and there one with your name on it we'll I'll leave it with to CLK so you can stop in and pick it up what is it going is it there now I'll be there in the morning um yeah I'll leave it I'll leave it on the table by the office okay I I have phone all right get it there for you thank you okay thanks Sam that way you don't have to print you don't have to look at all the files they'll be they'll be in the book Thank you okay so review there's going to be a few changes and that should make a quick review in the future um we go we'll go with it thank you all right thank you guys for all your hard work thank you what number is that on the 14 14 oh it's 141 141 now Melissa Trier turquoise this is FY 26 we have updates to our book pass that there and pass two for your you and then two for these thank you [Music] um you can um I don't think any any OBS other than um in um in addition to the treasure and collectors and um we have other worksheets for the expense items and insurances things like that she is responsible for the debt um which is why I have go second because this may you a little buer oh so that so you're a 4center on it um okay Co yeah okay so I'm going to start with uh the treasur and the tax collector are two separate positions um so there's two actually separate departments so when you see at the top of the budget worksheet um which has now been corrected to say FY 26 145 is our department code for Treasure 146 is the department code for tax collector however you'll one of the things that I'm going to make a comment is I really think that the Omnibus and all of these spreadsheets that were sent out should have the GL account numbers attached to them um so I went in all my backup plugged in my GL account numbers because when you go and reference like the Omnibus oh line 82 and and next year someone inserted a line it's now line 83 you really guys really my recommendation is you should refer to the GL account numbers we we have had have conversation okay we we have to have that conversation with an additional party at the Town Administrator yeah because the omnius that is sent out and what is sent out to the department heads doesn't match the dbps so I went in and changed all of mine just so you know M which is the G numbers that is that are that that's yeah general ledger numbers I will say this grou has seen the Excel output from from the B so that we're able to export it to a file and it's much easier to bring out so with the assistant treasurers we can that that is something great so um you know any point I could always also send you guys the salary grid that is used for people's salaries any any anything extra you need oh I would love to see that applies to other I can send to thank you we'll do all right so um if you want to start with the first line on the cover sheet salaries that first one um is me um and I am 4% I'm on the grid um and I have a individual contract a three-year contract I'm not in the union um so uh my contract just started uh a second three-year contract started January 3rd couple three four weeks ago um the second line um is an adjustment from your original because the $1,000 was it up above and that's why it said 5.2% in the original oh okay yeah so this ,000 stipend is only for a Treasurer or tax collector and it's a Mass General law and I have it which we approved last year at town meeting y so so there was no money impacting last year's budget because she wasn't CER yet this year was the first year of certification oh oh okay so she's certified now so she gets increment right and and we voted in the town one of the Town meetings last year that we voted as the town to accept the Mass General law as how we compensate our text have it town clerk has it so this master laws that refer to okay if they get their certific for uh to cler or cessor Treasurer tax collector um the um they should get an extra thousand dollar is this a year or just when you get your certification oh okay yeah so so that's not increasing your salary really does that get no I understand I mean I'm sorry it doesn't impact the 4% no it does not right okay yeah so think of it in terms of um a bonus a bonus and also you know like I was trying negotiate longevity and I'm not in a union so I didn't get longevity so kind of think of it as a replacement for longevity so it takes three years to get a treasur uh certification and it takes another three years to get a tax collector certification the law says either or or both you the max is a thousand so I'm not getting a you know so so my three years will be I can take the test in August but you won't get a th for each certification you'll get a th only for certification if that makes you feel better give me the money I'm working hard for it tring yeah they m a lot we voted for that yeah yes if you didn't vote Yes I mean right but I thank everybody um thank you so that's the TC treasur collector stien for a thousand that wasn't in 25 and now is in 26 the next L yeah the next line is wages and that's really um uh the staff my staff so that's two um FTE full-time quencies I have a assistant treasur tax collector and I have a someone's in the clerical Union some I don't know what this title is Department something Department assistant yeah you know if I don't like it I don't learn it yeah no I'm just kidding yeah he was he was on the original sheet so in the backup yeah um for for um salar if you want to pull out the labor worksheet P I went through and um did my own little um backup which includes their hourly rate what grade and step they're on um how many hours per week they're working oh what is that um that's it's in the original Oh in original you want me make oh labor worksheet I so oh so this one didn't I mean so you didn't you didn't reprint this because it didn't change correct right because all you did really what it looks like what you did here is you broke that out yeah to show it to show it to us because it's already broken out in here yes because what happened was it didn't have it doesn't have a general ledger account line so I asked the to accountant to create a new one but here I did put it as a stien but when I linked the number I linked it to the 92124 yeah you got it yeah so that that's that's the piece and and the other thing she was talking about is the last three columns on the sheet is Right exist existing to the new I yes the gr step which you know we're calling like the salary grid which is or Matrix which is what I'm might send out will I'll send out to you guys that's pretty clear in the um oh you didn't get it but here's the article that that everybody voted on for my um oops for my salary so that you negotiated that yourself because United Union correct good negotiator take they voted yes I think one guy yelled out no I like excuse me wasn't it one just one guy like what you just want to be heard so that's the salary portion okay the second section uh called expenses I have an expense backup sheet that looks and I am am going to point out looking her comments column this is this is idea oh it's kind of right because you're explaining each IDE right it's kind of like I so did you print this out again because something changed or yes okay so I didn't change the bottom line on expenses but what happened was but let's look at the first um equipment rental is the first in it um I brought it back up because the postage meter lease um on the original said 2700 and then 170 and that didn't equal 1,670 because what happened was in FY 25 this year that we're in I made a request for a budget transfer from moving $1,200 from equipment rental to training because there was no money in training so in FY 25 so I did that in fy2 so when you're looking at your bvps bbas monthly budget reports bbas it says 1670 but originally it wasn't 167 it was $1,200 more but this report was ran after the budget reclass was done for FY 25 does that right so normally we would say the original budget and then the changed them amount in the second column so they um and not it's not in this report but it's it's in a different report to the media you can see the original one you can see the adjustment so you'd see it go up or down be able to see it so the training line was new for fy2 and in that I wanted to add more uh money because talking about success Su sucession planning I'm looking at my my crew and there's one person I'm trying to bring up to get um certified so that when I retire this gentleman hopefully we'll we'll have that so I wanted to put more money in training however I took it from equipment rental and I really meant to take it from Communications so what I did for my adjustment one was I put the money back I also did an analysis another analysis of all fy4 expenses for the postage meter and I have the back up here what I paid in fy4 for the entire year and it was around $3,000 so I upped at $300 so I upped ,500 equipment rental and then third line down Communications I reduced it by $1,500 I did um again what we paid last year actuals so I have the postage meter um and the other so I was able to do that without increasing the bottom line for you guys and I'm comfortable with that not you you shifted money around to cover what you thought your needs are yeah including sucession you got it so the the postage so if you want to go line by line or or do you want I I just want to what what's the tax title laer services yep so we Outsource um the someone who's experienced in tax title um situation so there's a lawyer we have on retainer kind of like the Adam your Town Council I also have a bond counsel for debt easi which is um and then Iris Ley is the name of the lawyer who's our tax title lawyer so if you know what tax titles are I know what they are there you go but um what did she actually do did she do their foreclosures nope uh so what she does is she does all the paperwork for um processing for land Court oh so we send her say okay these people are all in tax title we're ready to for on them which is the next step but to get to foreclosure I you have to go through land Court okay and there's only one land Court in Massachusetts and that's why it's another three years before you can even foreclose after once you start doing all the process oh yeah it's ridiculous so she does all of that and then she does help with foreclosures itself um um in terms of the paperwork with the auctioneers and stuff like that and and those expenses handy yes yes yes expensive yes they can be expensive but you're allowed to put them as a cost against the property you're selling so when you recognize the revenue from it's a recoup yeah oh okay so we have to pay up front but there is a recoup when we do the selling so when you sell you add all of your uh legal fees which would include her and uh interest um you can collect the can yes yes yes because you was saying that the law had changed where the they get the money you don't get all of the money they get potentially if if you sell for more than the than your cost you need to take that effort now to ref the person so it's everything above and beyond the costs and the interest and the actual taxes owed okay if there's a profit above and beyond that we have to put that in a separate bank account and wait for someone to come and say previous owner and say Hey you made a profit on me I want that I want that money and we have to keep it for like three years or so three years we can tell them to go pound you got it more I give them your personal phone number can tell yeah so I mean advantage to putting the properties is just to keep it on the tax roll live because you're not going to really make money on the sale oh no no no no I I think you said that wrong um is an advantage to what to selling these properties on at auction because you put them back on the tax earning money for the taxes correct yeah it's not profit center it's not a profit center it's not it's not an operating Revenue so it can't be used to fund your operating budget um that's going to be recuring revenues because always selling properties these Cycles so this is money that once it goes in and again the reason we have such a large number of free cash certified this year is that we have sold the three properties in November of 2023 which was part f24 so there was that but how did you if you can't keep the money oh over market value no no no no not market value over over the all cost of the rear taxes Etc yeah all the total cost for the town employ fees and whatever other fee you can and the tax but but at the same time the town ends up having a liability with these properties yeah because they run down people could break in hurt themselves the town owns them so is liability liability should we be putting offenses around these properties um notifications notice of Interest all of these different there there are new things that the properties committee is is looking at no trespassing signs right at least something well that that because if you didn't put a fence around it you it's all I've seen some properties like you can't even find the property wait I I was able to find find a house at 182 Warren because all the foliage has druck off I can find the house now if you put posted no trespassing signs would that protect you if somebody broke in and broke the L we need to ask the lawyer those things so because fencing can get expensive even if you're renting it it's kind of like and you don't know if you're going to recover totally and it doesn't stop anybody because it's chaining fencing and people still would climb over the fence yeah it's kind of like that'll be the final thing you know what what what of the recommendations to protect us and how long do you wait before you send the property to l I mean what what triggers how many years do you not collect taxes and say m law um so off the top of my head I've never been a treasury collect before so um excuse me I don't know everything yet but I've learned a lot in three years right and and they just changed the laws last year with these so it's inlux I want to try to pull it back to the budget not so yeah that's all for so so bottom line what what Don was saying is you follow Master General law after a certain amount of time then you've got to post it advertise it send out letters to to people blah blah basically we're not in the real estate business so whenever so I try to do um uh payment agreements with people if they call me I I can legally enter into payment agreements with people for P that um so anyway so um the moment we turn them over to from tax title to foreo and foreclose on them there's a whole bunch of paperwork and it takes another three years before they're actually ours but in the meantime just really important is we're not collecting taxes while it's in tax yeah that's my point so how does that affect interest continues to go up the taxes continue go does that affect the growth factor or um yeah here yeah okay I property yeah it's too long for that yeah we'll do we'll do 101 yeah you can go get [Music] youring so um so let's get back to um next one is oh um the next one professional and Technical Services anytime you see something that said Services it means contracted Services that's what they're talking about um and and um utmc um is unemployment so that's what we're paying for unemployment they went up their $450 a month for the service um we don't pay per unemployment we if anybody files unemployment we don't pay their full unemployment we pay because we very rarely have people go for unemployment the second version or second way of inputting into the unemployment process which you legally have to do is um by paying um a company into a certain um like a bond yeah like a bond okay yeah versus paying the actual unemployment costs oh you don't pay the state on everybody directly no we we pay this company $450 a month and it goes into some kind of other state account yeah is there an interest not our money no it's it's like unemployment so the the two ways of of a standard business paying unemployment one is you can pay a rate based on the salaries you paid out and you B and based on your unemployment history the other is you can pay directly when somebody files for unemployment you can pay their full salary this is a third option which we we can pay somebody a little bit of money so we're not paying into unemployment directly but they probably have enough other customers like an insurance company everybody pays an insurance premium but you're not paying the full value if you collect so it's it's like an unemployment pool but it's by a a certified company that has dis ability with the state to cover it so so it's a less expensive way for us to cover the unemployment yeah we're paying $400 a month rather than whatever it would be for everybody's unemployment rate or 1% of your total salaries that you pay to the town's employees yeah look it up yeah it's it's kind of like but we chose the cheaper of the way because we don't we're not a huge company that lays off a lot of people all the time so if you did get layoffs just say yeah it would go to that company and they would take care of paying them uh yeah it's still through the state yes um yes we would we still go through the state through the state but through this intermediary that we're yes they like the holding the B so we only give them $400 a month 450 yeah 450 and they cover it's like an insurance company so if so if if you have an unemployment claim there you go they cover what the state would pay because the state didn't get money from us that's okay sounds right yeah yeah it's a third party agreement and then if nobody if nobody collects unemployment then they get to get to keep all the money but when you do get unemploy yes I guess when you do get unemployment it gets dicey but that's their risk not ours exactly okay get yeah this is a much better choice for us yeah um the lawyer that's the tax lawyer she increased her rates this actually past October from 200 an hour to 250 she hadn't increased her rates in years since I've been here and I've been here three years so she just did that easi ufas is the acronym for uni bank financial something Services blah blah blah they're are Bond Council so um they're the experts on debt and processing um debt helping me process debt paperwork um when we borrow for capital projects things like that um and and they do all the paperwork I have to fill out half of it but they give me all the paperwork to process um that needs to be approved by them before I can go out to bid to get money like I have to go through all the stuff yeah so it's really you need so that's them labor logic Harpers is the name of our payroll software we're not really paying that much $4,000 a year really isn't a lot bartholomy services are um the name of the um uh trust call uh Investment Services oh so that they invest all our trust funds they have our stabilization funds they have our Capital funds um the cemeteries Perpetual care funds so instead of putting that money in a bank um we we invest it and bartholomy is the name of the company that does that got it so they need four five million are there are there um I assume there are state laws about who you can invest that with yeah I I was going to say was a I think in the last couple years a change to it because it was always banked before and so you were getting the low interest rates and recently they changed it yeah so it's called the Le legal list and I would recommend inviting bar ALU to come and talk to you guys it's you know but I mean like I assume that you're limited as to what companies like you couldn't take it all the Vanguard say here Vanguard it's called the legal list and that legal list is made up of only 10 companies okay and they just what you just said the law just changed they've expanded it to like another eight or two she thinks but you're absolutely right we have to go safe um because we're a municipality um we are only allowed for they are only allowed to invest our money in certain types of you got it what are considered safe or returns because we don't want to lose all our money and then be fake yeah and you know obviously that these law laws happen because that happened because Town lost like literally millions upon Millions years and years and years ago and so they're like oh my God we got to protect you from lousy treasure Tax Collectors who who are making for for taking taking it down a parwoods yeah so so that's really but if they hit that jackpot exactly so along with the barthol you Investments um of trust funds and stabilization and capital and some other um funds um I have 30 bank accounts so that I have to keep other money other revenues in by law that are not invested because I need to access I say I all the time need to access that money every week to pay vendors and to pay payroll so um for example all of our taxes for real estate property taxes I I put in UniBank um all of uh we have a lock box where people mail in real estate whatever and UniBank doesn't have a lockbox um capabilities or services so I go through uh Eastern Bank or Fidelity Bank so I have Fidelity Eastern couple of CDs um different revenues um when money comes in from the state for Grants and stuff like that that comes in I put it to one of the banks um permit link is building all all the money goes permanently I keep in a separate bank account because it's just EAS you to reconcile so um yeah and task task is what you guys were talking about earlier the FSA flexible spending that the name of the company is Task I do want to talk about so Communications postage meter um so for our department the postage meter that's in our mail room um that is accessed by everybody in the building it the payment to the US Postal System postal US Postal Service um for stamps um so that people just go in and run their you know um mailings like um it comes through ours thank you I forgot my mailing like I got my sensus today yeah and then the other that's something that would run through there yeah sens and then yes exactly yeah yeah and then Kelly and Ryan is the name of our uh again a contracted service they're are Deputy collectors so we Outsource a deputy collector which is what pretty much the entire state does every town so Kelly and Ryan what they do among other things is they prepare our tax bills and our excise bills we send them files they do the invoices and do the mailings and um the cost of that is around 15,5 00 a year for all of it for and for the for the purpose of um processing um so when you when you don't pay your your your excise Bill uh we'll mail you through my department a late um Bill demand and say pay up what's the problem and then if you ignore that then it goes to the deputy collector and they have two more um mailings or two more parts where they collect their fees like17 like it goes from $30 to $17 to another like $18 that they collect and then it it becomes a warrant through them where you can get arrested so for not paying your excise tax y I thought you could get a re yeah and you'll see on the website when you go to pay they will say are you paying a demand and you can't pay it in regular site they have a special location so if if you haven't used Services Kelly and Ryan and so we use them to do that dir work because that's a little more that's more efficient than having to do it in the within the department itself the actual service of the mailings are both both yeah so if we were to mail through my department like to everybody in town um their excise bills and their real estate tax bills that's all we'd be doing and all we have is a little machine for postage Okay so so yes so it's more efficient and they create the the forms yeah I mean printing in the form other than that you're ordering special forms so you can run them through the through the machines it's kind of like so it's a way of Outsourcing without having to buy all the materials and the expenses you'd have to hire a full-time person with Benefits just to do that you got it like so that that's and that the reason we have lock box um that's also an Outsourcing of of excise and real estate bills and water bills that you can mail to them and they process it and send us a file um because we'd have to hire a full-time person to do that the full-time person I have um Anthony for as a department assistant he pretty much answers phones and um takes Walkins uh and that alone is is 50 60 70% of his job sometimes for people there's a lot of um population in towns in um enough that like to that don't have computers so they won't pay on online they also don't trust mailing and they won't mail it so they will come in and plus they love us you like us let's you know so they will walk in so we need a and then get the phone calls and he does additional oh my God we'll find him on on the it budget later on payroll yep and he manages the system yeah yeah he's quite useful he's yeah say that I'm gonna tell him you said that no I I please it's kind of like he's been very well um going back to the technical services though so it went up by 3,000 I'm I'm assuming that's mainly by the increases from the 200 to 250 and I don't know the the utmc that contract did not changed this year um it changed this year for FY 25 but not for f26 26 no it actually went up um from 400 to 4 450 for last year and so so basically this 3,000 increases yes primarily for the for the for the for the lawyer change exactly okay lot but that's so you're estimating how much time we you got it you may need to use her based on what we needed what we used during the past yeah so what I do is when I pay the bills I sorted by vendor and I subtotal what I spent like for the whole year for that service um by vendor and that's how I do my um projections a lot of times okay hey you guys are getting it did yeah thank you for your time yeah other services um there are some bank account fees uh shredding services for the mail room and the rest uh travel training and dues um I've explained um my I go to I I'm not I'm not supposed to say it but I go weekly I want to say what day yeah switch it up to the bank um for all the money that comes into the office over the counter OTC that's what OTC stands for I put that anywhere um uh if people pay cash and which they do um I have to go to the the the bank physically go to Fidelity Bank uh down by route two in Pittsburgh um to make the deposit um the checks that we get we have a scanner and so we don't have to bring the checks we scan the checks um and that's um so there are Bank Services associated with the check scanning and uploading files and stuff like that Rebecca's my assistant treasure collector and Anthony the department assistant and I'm um I don't know maybe we could do a side note I wanted to to make a comment I I added the GL account numbers and some really I'm sorry needs to review the entire CH of accounts these these um the 50 anything that the 4digit number that starts with a five these um numbers are wrong I I I looked them up and I'm like so yeah okay well we'll have that conversation that's something we can take out of here what she's talking the the sequence of numbers that we have with the ones that begin with the the four digigit number the three digigit then a two then then the three-digit for the Department code then the next one the four digits they to find how you use them whether it's wages Sal there different different ways of use instead defin and um I will also they like an accounting line it's it's it's it's guidelines for how to use those codes when you set them up the M okay and I I will say Melissa's job she was in school systems before and we dealing with that so she has school experience with school budgets and codes I created the accounts for framing schools in the 90s so that that's where that bit information is coming from sorry about that it's kind we didn't I thought maybe finan yeah no it's kind of like we we haven't paid attention we just look at the code and the description and say okay that's what it is so saying some of the codes are misused or incorrect maybe yeah maybe incorrect or updated yeah like u y so there's a okay yep I'd like to I questioning yeah well that's a good thing so who does that who puts the codes um that would be the accountant would create them um the account and generally they have been you you Ed year toe they they don't create new ones every year so we have to go back into history and find out somewhere along the line it may have been something else and somebody changed the description which made it okay this the town account this is the town town and realize you've had multiple Town accountants over decades and that your chter of accounts which is but the GL numbers I'm talking about chart accounts was created 30 40 years ago and over the years when new accounts have been created a person might not know what they're doing totally with with codes it's a hard thing and it's kind of you learn on the job and chose a code to and they're called there it's the chart of accounts for the Massachusetts um State um called UMass Uniform Massachusetts codes and they're in court go numbers are incorporated into our chart of accounts and that's how everybody does it and you can pick and choose the codes but you really you might say oh I think this is a contracted service and it goes under 5270 and I say no this is a this is um task is a benefit it should go under 5170 is is there okay so so no that's okay you'll find that we go on is there an imp is is there any kind of a negative implication for having the wrong code yes in my book so when the schools so what happens is these codes because they're in your chart of accounts when you go to report support to the state and I'm just going to refer to the schools they want you to tell how much you've been spending expending on professional development uh teacher salaries special ed education uh supplies contracted Services they want to know this whole breakdown and they gave you these codes and they gave you a description of the code and they say okay so when you go to report your expenditures and the desie perent education um if you don't if you code a contracted service to a supply line you now have overstated skewed your numbers and said I spent $5,000 on supplies no you didn't spent 4,000 and so and then you your data is wrong and and and sometimes it is finci if that's the data piece of data you're reporting from is that group of four numbers and and that could could that delay like their certification to get the cash to get the the cash back and things like that who who oversees those codes being correct so your Auditors um we get audited every year but um it can slip through because there are very few through yeah yeah set enough got it slip through we got to watch the okay so we did take a while to go through ask another question about the slip so just say that this is happening Melissa and is does it just skew where the money goes or does it skew what we owe what we get back I mean how does that sure so how impact you're not right yep great question so I can't answer that because um this is my first uh towns side job I spent 25 years on the school a school example so the school yeah I yeah let's hear that I created I was the the budget manager um for 25 years for Framingham chicke all these places I've created budgets in Mohawk Regional School anyway so what happens is your data is skewed but there are some cases like with grants and things like that if you don't if you don't um it can affect how much money you might get on something from the grant or chapter 71 but I don't know what what it is on the town side I I don't know that is um I just okay but that's good it's good for us to know because that's a question we can find out that that could that could answer a lot of questions it could and it may be just in the reporting side in that people are doing it off the description and not the accounts and it would make it easier if we did accounts if we had them well see all I can think of is if you're in a doctor's office and the girl codes your diagnosis in correct and they take off your arm instead of your you right I mean that's the well I did have that issue with my daughter once they coded it as a car accident and so my health insurance refused to pay for an operation because it was coded as a car I had to go to the car and it took me collection agencies coming after me it took me o over over a year to get it fixed and it was only a code it was just a Miss Cody and and that's why we that's why these g account numbers codes is really what should be we talk about you know what I mean okay I'm talking about 5470 or I'm talking you know what I mean not line 43 you're absolutely right you you miscode something right I I I do typos all the time you got all your arms and legs yeah not not yet that's why they stop putting magic mic on the leg this this that's wow yeah yeah like my daugh had several surgeries where they say this leg this hip the it's likeed up I suppose it's not good to joke until you're Mar the wrong side that for but you hope they don't okay do we quickly want to go over so that's my um Department the department I'm sorry kind okay benefit the next thing so we'll another upate replace this in the book oh you want another one no you did kind this is the update oh I'm sorry yes that's your update I'm sorry so nothing yeah so nothing's changed from this update so we can just put this in the book and the bottom line didn't change either right we don't have a streaming go I'm gonna have to go home punch it I can go to my office okay I punched it in that's I see that job done I should okay we're good okay do we want to touch on the others or the benefits so so basically you are responsible for overseeing the benefits but doesn't come under your Department's budget um correct so it's not under the departmental department budget correct it's in a different section in the Omnibus and it's called benefits and insurances and um you can see why one of the reasons you'd be able to know that it wasn't my budget because my budget is the second uh third uh set of numbers in your general says 146 on mine and this says 911 so the the the department code for benefits is 911 9913 9914 right when you say add 6% by the Town Administrator what's what's the where does that 6% figure come from uh I'm assuming it's a guesstimate uh I'm not involved in the negotiations yeah again that's that's enough now that's health insurance and one of the things that I wanted to do is we compile the list we we've had Town Court two two employees to benefit we had assessor to employees to benefit now we have um tax collector it's three employees three benefited positions so it's kind of like so at the end with the benefited positions we have to account and hope that every employee is or you know we have to account in here that every employee with the heal with our with standard rate for health insurance cover and we have enough money in that L to cover that but I don't know that we've ever seen that before we haven't I haven't seen that before so now I want to see how many employees what's the cost how do we get this number if we put in this budget okay so you want to make sure that you to get another another gu it make sure that how many benefited employees we actually have versus then the amount and does that total oh yeah one we GNA do that um I think we'll do that with the Town Administrator border of Selectmen them what are the totals for your whole organization and how did you get to these numbers that yeah how do you get to the number is critical I think I it is I mean I think we we saw from um the budget and and the expens L how we got there on this on this presentation I me the other two people we saw were pretty but but I can see we're coming up against some big we're g to have bigger budgets that we need that kind of detail for yeah and especially when you one says you know I forecasted I guess it's a guess that that's the unsettling thing I think because that's how they made that big error right that found did you find it Melissa I'll take credit okay um so so for May I sure okay so for fy2 I just did analysis it looks like I'm going to come within budget okay y so what what it what I do um is take the current people right now and what they have for benefits so that's a real number correct right so you have that real number what you don't have is two months down the line you get a new hire and they take benefits what you don't get is someone gets married and takes a benefit what you don't get halfway through a year there's a a status change in something you can't project that I mean a baby right so so you have to decide how you want to want to project the best way to project is take the actuals and then you kind of call the insurance company you know BL clar Shield say give me a hint what what are you gonna increase your you know what's it they increase and they'll go 10% then what you should do is you find out okay are we projecting any new hires next year and you know with the school system Fring I mean it was new hires all the time oh I've got 15 new hires I'm going to budget $155,000 for each new hire and I would put that add that to the budget in the case of us where we're small and there's not be any new hires but I might say you know what I would add for changes 15,000 for two more people and and call call it a placeholder so I would add $15,000 on top of the actuals on top of the percentage increase by the insurance company that's your best that's your budgeting 101 yeah yeah okay thanks so and then if you have extra it comes back in three or the opportunity is we get to the last two months of the year and we we have the municipal transfer that we can do and sign and move that money to someplace that might need it that might have under budgeted right we have to have a special town meeting to do that no in the last two months of the year that's a form that is signed off by both order select and finance committee okay oh so there's special periods the last two months of a year and the first or yeah last two months of a fiscal year and the first two weeks of the next next fisal year you have the opportunity to change like fy2 we can from May 1st to July 15th we have the ability to move money from account to account using these MP transfer request signed off by both select finance committee so so from your example if if we get to June or if we get to May and there has been no changes for anybody's benefits so so that 15% that you prepared so all of a sudden you say oh that's not going to show up because there's not going to be any changes then we could say okay well let's move this money to somewhere else where it's needed exactly and does that include does that include like the stabilization fund and capital funds or not it does not no so we couldn't move it to those Capital fund and stabilization funds are going to require two3 majority there's majority so if we wanted to do that we would have to have a special town meeting we we would but you wouldn't do it then you'd have to wait for it to be certified as free cash and once it's certified then right make the motion to one of those so because the governing body of the town which is town meeting has to approve those okay so so if we say oh we budgeted 25 million for the town this year but we get to the end and we're like oh we've got 3 million all that we're not actually going to spend that 3 million basically goes into limbo until the state certifies it and we get it back and at that point we say okay what are we gonna now we have to have a special time meeting to decide how to deal with this three million got it yeah okay trash pick up but is is there a default place for that extra to go when when it gets certified just just the categorization of free cash actual cash itself well yeah so let's say we get let's let's say we get 3 million back yeah and we we have we we we say let's put it in in say stabilization but the town doesn't want to put it all in the stabilization they say well we only put one and a half it yeah what happens that that other one and a half that didn't get allocated where does that wind up so so all of all of free cash goes into stabilization and that's when I talked about Bartholomew so the money gets put into you then whatever is voted I call parom you and say send me 1.5 million and they send me a check or wire me the funds okay the rest States and it gets invested so it gets so so basically default is it goes into stabilization what when you say stabilization it it's um okay I thought because it's we we currently had one point about 1.1 in stabilization because we took the 140 yeah and moved it out it's kind of like so you're saying that free cash that just got certified with 600 whatever thousand is automatically moveed to stabilization I thought so but now that you say it that way I may be wrong so don't quote me so that's kind of what I'm wondering where is that I I think it stays in the general fund but is identified as free cash is above and beyond what your revenues are I don't I don't think where the actual money well the actual I I'd say the actual money is general f yeah no I mean like on the banking side like where's the actual money is it in my Banks I would say it's in your Banks because and barom is one of my Banks that's why I said that I don't know the answer okay I mean so I guess like another part of my question is what what's let's say we we get the certified free cash back and we have and we don't have any place we want to spend it this year so where does it wind up okay so this is the money we're taking in this year this is FY 2025 yeah now you just certified last year's money right it's still it's over here fy2 24 is free cash is in this bucket oh my no no no what I'm trying to say is it's in a single location but identified by the class that it is you have your operating money that you're collecting right and it's going to be in your right box and then your free cash is still in general funds but it's in your left pocket identifi the free cash if I don't if I don't spend that but I think together if if you ask a report you'd see them combined and you get one total for both pockets okay and then if that money doesn't get spent this fiscal year is it available to be spent next fiscal year without having to go any through any more special process yeah because free Cas that that's that's that was kind of don't we vote on moving things to free cash or from free cash to it yeah we vote on moving so so that's why we say okay now we're going to have a town meeting we say we've got this free cash we want to move some of it here some of it there some of it there right and anything that doesn't get moved stays in free cash and becomes available for next year's budget effectively or for use for another purpose if you if we vote on it if we vote on it yeah so when you say we vote on it you're talking about the people the town we are representing the taxpayers so yeah we we we have that so when you when you create your budgets like you're doing now you're asking everybody how much do you need for your expenses and then you guys got to turn around or someone's got to turn around and say okay how do I refund these expenses well we're gonna get some from Chapter 70 we're going to get some from the state some from the grants some from revolving accounts some from free cash some from fees some from taxes like 80 90% from taxes and you list all your fundings sources that and then when your funding sources are short you go to your budget and say well I only got 3 million and you want me you want 3.5 million you cut five million or you find Revenue sorry if I'm yelling or you say you find Revenue you do combination oh you say yeah those are the people we have to get all the request see what they are then we have to look um I just saw a note today that the initial FY 26 Cherry sheets are available so you can start seeing what the state is thinking about giving the town of town oh they doer yeah they Cherry sheets because when they came out like 50 years ago were cherry sheet cute I like it so um but the the initial FY 26 is out and we don't get chapter 7 then oh sorry that's that's right we spending yeah FY 24 free cash on those articles we just did last week Y and we have to finish up so okay y okay that's it thank you Melissa that was wonderful good information might want to we don't have to but if we you have any questions on debt I'm here guys yeah no let's go through these These are whoa we got a lot of so general fund debt yeah right that's the next page almost every line you might want the yeah the cover sheet kind of summarizes it now let's go through it I think this is important oh you don't have this so this for 9 million or is that 9,000 oh it's in the back okay behind various Capital expenditures various we went up 2.86% because of what we borrowed so every time you guys vote on a capital project you voted an article um like uh the fire engines and the ambulances and um uh buch stuff whatever Bridges and um fridge replacement Highway truck yeah two Highway trucks yeah and even we won't talk about the water but yeah yeah but the water water does there and you keep that separate because that goes to water Enterprise exactly okay so then we really start with Bridge replacement Series where are you I'm right here at GF 2023 um so is 2023 the year that the debt was incurred or is that just a number um I don't know what you're seeing okay um it says series2 series 2023 yes that's the year it was borrowed so if you looked at the above one it was 2017 um 2023 might I don't recall fire engine fire oh yeah that was the bridge replacement already existed so what happened was I bundled so if you have um so it's all before my time if it was before 2000 January 2022 so if you're looking at 202 the fire engine uh the fire vehicle and the highway truck were all on article whatever 13 and may of 2023 you guys all Town voted um to do that um what I did was there was a previous um and I'm sorry if I'm yelling there's a previous um borrowing for the bridge replacement and so if it's under like 500,000 or if it's the more you borrow the better rates you're going to get because you have to go out to bid so I bundled the bridge replacement which I think is from you tell me w i one the harbor is that the bridge replacement that was at the har that's 2004 um there was another Bridge replacement out of West Town oh Bridge okay so you're saying these these four were bundled together into one loan correct one one these four were bundled into one loan Lo these are yeah these are cor so somebody collateral Bridge replacement with vehicles well that's just an odd collateral bundle it's a bundle to try to get the rate well I get why you're doing it but I'm just interesting that they would say Okay Bridge replacement in a fire charart okay um okay get that okay so these were borrowed in 2023 and they're not due until 2025 so let me ask you a question on this fire engine so we just went to a board of Select meeting um on Tuesday and it was brought up that they need extra $86,000 for the fire so how does that work with this okay so thatt sure so in Article 13 um may want to grab that sorry um so article okay Article 13 back in May 3rd 20122 um for $745,000 it was to replace engine number two and um it's taken three years to get it there was another article on May 2nd 2023 to replace engine number three so the first one $740,000 was to borrow a straight borrowing through capital projects the the second one for replacement engine was to borrow it and then pay it back through ambulance receipts so that has not been borrowed yet um I'll have to get the money soon because we're getting it so what happened between 2022 when it was voted on and ordered there's been a three-year Gap right and 745,000 is not enough to cover the the cost of this fire engine today or whenever it's getting delivered it's going to be another $86,000 you got to find the money you hear my so you can't like throw it back into the bundle Finance no with capital project we cannot so how does that happen it's it had to be the escalation clause in the contract was not was there Clause said for inflation I I believe that's my understanding is that the contct I ordered a copy I ordered a copy we'll see get cont the contract and see how we were able to go from a number that was presented to a number that is different because now we have a gap that we have to try to find 86 $86,000 and a way to fund it that's big so when you ordered this fire truck don't look at me or whoever however however the town orders this fire truck so many years ago they end up paying more when it's we have to look at the contract Carol because apparently we're being told that there was an escalation cause in the contract so we got to make sure that that's accurate information and we can only know that if we see with our own eyes the paper Okay compare the number in the contract to the number that was put in the budget was was that was it was it just a mistake to transposition yeah that's point so so we don't we see the contract the 745,000 has that already been borrowed um yes um I did borrow it because um I don't care but when I I did just started and so I borrowed it no one said oh by the way it takes three years for fire to come here so has that money been paid to the company that's supplying the fire engine no I have it sitting so it's sitting somewhere a bank in a bank collecting interest collecting interest yes you get $85,000 for I'm gonna I'm gonna you know talk to barthol or whatever the name is I'm gonna give you guys some advice that I told the Town Administrator and I talked to the town account I'm gonna take credit for this so in years past whenever you undere exendin capital projects for example this forestry uh Tru for $75,000 I asked Katie for a report it only cost 68,000 in change so in that line there's over over 7,000 6,000 change so okay he told you no no I'm just so what I said was and I'm sorry if I take credit no one else gonna Pat me on back I'm like okay Katie okay you got to run all of your capital projects for like the past I don't know I don't think anyone's cleaned it up in a while and find out how much money you have in unexpended capital project I think you might find there's at least six in change that I know you know from just this engine since I've been here so so Nelson did tell Katie to do that and then Katie and I are G to work together um um and do a spreadsheet um and there are laws Master laws on how you um what how you can handle unexpended Capital Project funding funds yeah that was um that was done they found a bunch of not oh they um maybe seven or eight years ago if that long was it the capital budget or was it the other special the special town I know we did the special town meeting articles that hadn't been fully exended right um and we continue to watch that on doesn't that get done every year it is now but it process before that extra $6,000 where is that money now is it in just in the bank want to know where he can rob the bank and and we didn't and we don't we didn't necessarily know it was sitting there until you looked at it and said wait a minute this actually only cost this much yeah since since before me I don't know that anyone's ever done that kind of reconciliation on the cash side and reconciled between how much we borrowed and how much we spent um I just I on my side um just take care of paying back the debt and stuff like that really there there needs to be a better Bridge um on that so doesn't have the Auditors pick this up when they come and do an audit guess not guess not so wait slip through yeah slip yeah slip if that money was borrowed for Capital expenditures can it be used to offset the extra 86,000 on this other capital expenditure so here's where want me to say real take take it I don't know the details yet but I don't think you can do a simple transfer you have to absolutely not yeah so any unexpected any unexpected funds for capital projects um have to um be re if you're going to reallocate them to another Capital project then it needs to be another article oh right okay okay because you can only use your Capital specifically for what the town voted right and if it and if it's and if it's not used if it's not voted to use or something else does that money just can that money just get used to to pay down the debt that much sooner you don't have to take a vote on that um the uh exact yes on that specific item you so basic you can use it to reduce that specific item debt and so you reduce the term that it takes to pay it so what happens when it increases like this fire situation uh then you have find a funding source for that so she Katie might find when she does analysis of all the capital projects that there might be a couple that overexpanded but you just said six right oh no was under she has one that she knows is under but there might be some that might be over work to be done see that should be done every year I think well but I really think it should should we're we're in learning process I get it I get it I get it I get it all of us it's kind of like there there's a lot of this elev yeah we have to put that into practice right this year right y we we have to start um very similar to some of the other things there I think it's kind accountability um it it is but at the same time it's you're not sure what you don't know yet I mean oh I got to think about that yeah it it's kind of like we don't know what don't know yet until we uncover it I know but now we know Melissa is uncovered so now we got to move forward now we have to move forward with it and and ask you know ask the question Des for report let me ask you something now on this TR truck thing maybe I shouldn't get into it but um if we weren't informed of a um escalation cost or whatever you want to call it does a if we were given certain amount of money if if it was delivered on cost more and we only had X number of dollars what would happen so that's you guys can have fun with that one once you get your contract and it's all about contract it's all about the contract because anybody can say anything but what what they what they put in writing and everybody sign that's whatthe we got deal deal in the fact I want to get the 6,000 back for the for the forest truck how do we get that back where do we put it da where do we put it what's that the $6,000 that Melissa found in the capital fund has to go back into Capital no it has to be voted it can I hold so I want to go home you want to yeah you have so so with capital projects there's laws okay so there's certain things you're allowed to do so you want to talk to your town accountant um and and get that information from her I'm like the school side I knew what I could do like like I um and I think it applies to the town side as well but you need to uh you can reallocate it you but it you can put it towards principal you can um there's a couple things um as well other options I forget what they are so you really want to get your town accountant and assistant Town accountant in here to discuss that because I think that's important with our recommendations that if we're going to say at then here are the places we recommend that you put it so so so we just ktie and I just talked about this um a couple days ago and um we're gonna we're she's going to run all the reports for me I'm GNA put and she talked to the town account she's the assistant Town account and I'm gonna I'm GNA put my side here of what's what what it was originally budgeted at voted at this and then we're going to find this spreadsheet and that's what we're doing right this second oh good um so you might want to discuss it with the Town Administrator and the town account as to how soon you want it I mean the sooner the better obviously because when you write the article you might want to have funding sources which is what I think you were just saying you w't be able to say hey we need 89,000 but guess what we know a funding source for exactly because recommendations should have the solution as well especially if there's an issue so with these sheets that we have here with listing different debts and everything like that right how do those those don't seem to reconcile with the cover sheet like so so the the the cover sheet says FY 25 has a total debt of 394 225 Y where do I find that number for f oh there it is 394 yeah okay so what is this sheet showing um so I think in my uh what Don um I should remember that's my husband's name uh I think what Don printed out is the backup on my Excel spreadsheet and I did a spreadsheet and then I also got a a spreadsheet from they're called um easi my bond Council my debt people they and I kind of been put that into a spreadsheet and then so okay I just so it's different it's the same thing numbers were broken out differently okay because right because I like I see this one you've got a big number of 36 six down here for these different Deb and it doesn't it doesn't align with what's over here yeah so throw that one away just say reference only or something that so that's what I got from them and and it's broken out into water debt and um I even did one that's out that goes out till 2036 38 we may be coming back looking for that when we start doing the capital planning yes I have all of that the capital plan so like here's an example and it is the interest and the principal all the way up to 2033 for this particular Highway truck so every item here has one of these right that that tells me how much so that's how I'm budgeting okay transation sheet you got it so I think that's I have one for every um fridge replacement was from article on 2019 Article 13 and I have every a sheet you want see for every um thing that I borrow I think that's important to and I put it in so this sheet is basically just showing the debt servicing this was my balance this is this is this is the balance this this year after after the payments that we made and then and if a new one comes up then it gets added in so sometimes it's one off and another one how do more detail on this sheet for example how do we know what was borrowed well how do we know what was what was expense what what how much do it cost how much do we borrow do we always borrow 100% oh whatever you vote right whatever's voted borrow I only borrow and I'm only allowed to borrow legally what the town voted so see how it says yeah so is 24,000 is what you started with um sorry so this is as of 2023 so um the highway truck that's the one we did on 2022 so that's fairly recent so if you go to the article for 2022 um is it the fire truck no it's the highway truck Highway truck Highway truck two there's only one I think I don't know if it's yeah I I have one for each one so so Highway truck is that this one so Bor 75,000 oh no no Highway which one we Highway 2 Article 13 okay that's the new highway truck H 240,000 so I've 1.06 million and of it these are what made up of and the the six wheeel dump truck of 240,000 was the original back in 2022 so this isn't showing the 2022 that's only what's paid down here see okay okay really good questions wow but there was no ser cost yeah yeah $100,000 add-on well no okay so I don't know that's that's oh that's what you GTA say Katie did did they actually pay 240,000 okay got like that 75,000 one so was only we only paid 68,000 I don't know about the other one so we have to get that inform we need that information Katie's the one okay but it sounds like yes this excellent information for us who know a dump truck cost so much money with the weight and all that well you buy a pickup truck now at 70 to 90 100,000 so that's not that surprising scary is it here so here's the water department we don't deal with the water department because they're their own people so to do but we don't so you have the um backup now you see that the numbers match yeah this one page this page matches this is so is [Music] this question so um you might we all budgeted in so I guess my question is on a lot of these lines the numbers don't change from year to year is that because we haven't started servicing that debt yet um uh let's see see like a lot most of these the numbers haven't changed so the principal uh okay so the first section is the principal so the principal doesn't change when you go to the next thing so you can see the first one says land West fire station yeah 8,000 8,000 it's the interest that goes down land West fire station because the interest goes down because the principal goes the total right I guess and that's what I'm I'm wondering why the principal number here isn't reflecting that so because the principle stays the same so for example if it's a 20-year loan say the life of the truck oh you're saying you paid 8,000 in principle last year on that yes okay so this is showing what you paid it's not showing the balance right correct so you so last year you paid we paid $8,000 towards the L West fire station 3720 of that was interest this year we're going to pay 8,000 but only 3320 of it will be interest okay and then you've got backup sheets that show you this is the this is the principle yeah and then the the then that'll be the value of the principal at the end okay and then this page you said is kind of different so don't don't really look at that one yeah yeah um I just put it in for my own backup I didn't know it was going to be um given out um it's okay we pred everything yeah so um take it out no we need all information keep it deal um but I it looks to me um I'd have to go back and um well it should match so the principal is 266 525 for and then I have that 266 525 so that matches um a 996 matches 996 interest and the shortterm loans 10,000 is not on this page so this number is $1,000 short less than the front page because the $110,000 interest and short-term loans is um a a a a placeholder for if I need money for borrowing and a short-term ban or something and and I need $5,000 you have you have the ability to borrow up to $10,000 on shortterm to cover short-term expenses is that no you guys have approved a $110,000 budget for expenses that I that might incur for uh short-term loan so for the expenses that the lawyers the the the fees associated with with going out for a loan or a ban a short-term ban this is that money so that usually doesn't get expended uh fully um but at $10,000 you don't want to not have it available yeah so it would be 394 225 10,000 384 225 405 should be 390 yeah I don't know I have to go back guys did you did anybody ask the B huh no okay I had copied it written the town somewhere and I forget Bank something not is it what does mean note I don't remember what I copied oh right right um uh Rand is a b is a a a bond anticipatory note oh good lord yeah okay nobody use the word anticipatory yeah tricky we'll give you 50 bucks you say yeah anticipation note yeah so what is so is that something that we you take out a shortterm loan essentially because you're anticipating that that a bond is being issued and so um if there's not if if it's like only $500,000 nobody's going to give me a 20year loan sure like you go make a loan like no right Hit the Road Jack right um so I have to take out a a short-term ban um versus a debt loan that that like Debt Service schedule this is the debt service schedule versus it's still debt but it's it's it's a category of the type your money so we did some kind of small amount of borrowing that now last year that that now we have to pay back and we have to pay it back on this light item as opposed to these long-term debt yeah yeah I think it 472,000 and change from last year or something yeah I can give you as much detail as you want but uh like I have like 16 six ways to Sunday on spreadsheets yeah um trying to organize when I first started I'm like what the so yeah and um for example what if what if I didn't get enough cash flow to pay my bill pay our bills that's why the whole trash bag thing was implemented because there wasn't enough cash and all of a sudden I needed to pay payroll or pay the school assessment or someone you know anything the lights and all of a sudden I don't have enough money in the bank um and I I had to go borrow money short term you know okay I need a million dollars tomorrow for week for a week until the next yeah so that's I haven't done that since I've been hearing them um but so it all depends on the size of the or the amount of money that we're looking to borrow and who will lend it to us and at what rate and at what um what term what terms exactly and that's okay so basically last year we we had to add a loan that requires us to pay $29,000 next year to pay that off eventually not necessarily all next year but over whatever the term of those and it might be a couple of different things over different years and for the line item it's just you just combine it into one one and then that's why I have the backup right to tell which one's which right okay so we don't but we didn't print that that backup up back you didn't we didn't print out that backup for this particular exercise what's that I don't know projection of long-term debt service requirements oh man that's yeah that's the one I was talking about where I took it all the way out to to calendar year 23d so so this that's that I do have that I didn't know yeah but you might want to review stuff and then come back with more questions we may have more questions we there's a lot yeah there's matter watch this will I hope I didn't make anybody's head explode I think you guys um thank you for listening I think you're all so intelligent that you were like oh okay I get it now Melissa and then you would say something you be like we your back and i' be like oh my God that's exactly it so good job good job good job they're down there too yeah tomorrow morning it's going to be all gone okay yeah that's pretty much true but you guys you faked it well well no we understand it I understand it now I'm just saying tomorrow morning when you s when I sleep on it it goes movie lyrics from 1980 that I Remember music lyrics from 1980 that I remember figures from today forget it it's not staying know we okay okay this this is a lot of good information I appreciate your time we went longer than I anticipated just and we kept you from dinner home thank you for um it was a ctive audience you let me talk appreciate um I don't think I you need me for anything else guys or if anything else there's questions we can reach out on email and things and and that um and I appreciate you guys all volunteering um quite a good group um these two are veterans right oh there you are all right okay take care warm warm up okay I think that was a lot a lot yeah and kind of and again if we were trying to squeeze everybody in on this Budget summmer on Sat we we want have that kind oh no and that was so helpful because now we know you know that there are alternatives to yeah right I feel better knowing Katie is looking for yeah together the two of them you know they get they get it Katie is theist Treasurer so so she's account Town accountant sorry okay kind of like not Treasurer assistant yeah assistant Town accountant right now working toward and again that's that's a a position it's assistant with um a an Outsource and a professional service to be the town accountants to sign things that is certified Katie is working on it who is a dollar figure training for her she should be certified as a town accountant in year year or two more um of classes and and testing and when she passes um the idea is that the Perfection of services contract for the town of count will be reduced to maybe an on demand um as needed service for and we will only have the town of account so um we only have her we we'll have her as town of account we only have the we we won't have an extra Professional Services contract to hit it so that's it's Again part of the whole sucession plan you know how do we how do we get better as and and with the right people in the right places people willing to work for the town and take the training to to work towards okay yeah s okay um back to the agenda item 2 two2 the work session it says review the minutes I make a motion to accept oh I fix them right um well I had I I had one item that if you want to look at yeah look at the word um on the meeting on the bottom of the first page where it says article 3 through1 oh this word here we voted on that as a as a bundle but we're in the recommendation form individually I guess yeah we didn't do them individually we did them as a bundle because I was just going to take out the word individually and put Bundy um no I think I think just recommend these articles right oh the end just period strike individually okay strike individually and just leave it at that yeah because we we um right because we did one vote to say oh that's right we went over everything but then we bundled the we kind of said yeah these are all the same thing it's just different properties so let's just vote once yeah and in my mind I was thinking with they being voted on individually at the town meeting right our job here yes so I so that's why I suck the word IND because I was thinking meaning all right I have to ask a question because I I I've heard this term what is on Theus um on Theus is I don't want anyone to hear that I don't know we don't it it needs to go into our definitions yeah but when you see the whole town budget presented in one spreadsheet that's the Omnibus budget oh all business okay I get it yeah it's kind of like it's all of the Departments all in together separated by its sections of General government and starts with the board of Selectmen good thank you very much so so that that's did you know what that was I did so do you want to make a mo should we make a motion to approve the minut I move to the that we accept the minutes with as amended I AC take Jerry so we had a motion and a second in the room any further discussion about the minutes yeah about the minutes no I I may do it different than other people I I think they they try to do the motion in a second to have a discussion I usually no so no further discussion a roll call Vote Yes David Walker yes Carol hop say yes Mary Jane Churchville yes Dam Grant yes and Don haes yes thank you Sam um um okay next next item was to review the special town meeting warrant articles and the recommendation sheet um I I had printed copies in the room it's it's it's a work in progress where done just Tred to capture our our work uh so that we can put this and when they take a a town warrant one of these will be handed out to all the town people that want them at attending the special Mee oh these are our recommendations these are our recommendations on the article um so if we I mean if we look at how it relates to the minutes we just looked at um and this is a different format I had tried to mimic the warrant and put article one and then some words yeah I did the table this time try to break it up a little bit the article was listed our whether we recommend it and what the vote was um and then a little additional information about the to add to the article so we have to um we can um it's generally I I like to have it reviewed by somebody before before we post it and send it to printing make 75 for the article but um I just um again it was just the information we We Gather and discuss except sure what what on this first one okay the company is a medical supply company originally boundry Medical Supply sh to bound Tre for this article and then you get a about okay yeah that's a link that's actually a link to the about I can I can because it's a history that company is about 40 years old and they've had about five different names do you want to link on our I don't it only just confused me yeah that's fine but don't you think we should also put this is a late invoice wasn't submitted in time to pay last year um we can yeah because isn't that what there were a few there was one or two of those there were a few of those yeah so I think it's good to know that it's Medical but it's also good to know that it wasn't submitted in time to pay so that's why it's popping up yeah as 30 2000 yeah um oh that might be a that might be a controversial one right it it may be um but do if we don't like this format if we want to see the article information I can I can do it a little different so we see it I think maybe we should see I think this is I think a little too disconnected from the issue okay yeah yeah that's that's all it's kind of like it was a little different I because like for example the 32,000 yeah this she oh you're because it's not going to be right under the article in the same paper right and you got to do this kind of thing yeah look look so we should say so this is for recreation for the town playground for description of article two yeah I think we have to yeah unless we can put it under but I guess you can't can you um I can do another phone and shorten it up just say it it will crunch the description a little longer it's not a not a big deal it's kind of like if we want to do the table if we want to go back to the old style I can list the the whole item on the water and put put it below I just figured it was a lot of repeat information it is but I think this isn't giving enough information he just say maybe just adds a couple of words about it be for the U playground right okay I can do another does it have to be wrong no no but I think we should say something something about so that when somebody's looking at it they oh that's for the playground right it's not clear enough Sam said something yeah um no I I don't know if I had sent this out to everybody it's a but I but um that's that's good I I I was you know little short with it um and but as we continue with this um I did have some extra information oh good as we get to the Articles we didn't vote on that's good but on the ones we did vote on are we going to go back and look at those because the printer one is important because um which printer one we had voted we voted on one printer one article 12 main printers copers are 10 years old okay that's good we know this but on the actual information that you sent usest right from yeah from um yeah there was still questions like one of the is it per copy that we're paying on this they there will be a quot week charge for per copy yes I don't understand that okay um it um we're paying that kind of money for a printer why are we and we're using our own paper very similar to what software companies are doing and it it's a it's a peruse fee um black and white copies will be a half half a penny a piece and color copies will be 5 cents a piece um it's it's a generally accepted practice all we been do not no this this is this is a change in the industry in probably in the last seven seven years or so um and it's kind of like having come from the printing industry um I'm very familiar with it um because we we would do that we would have service contracts and we would charge per copy and depending on your band or how many copies you made the more your copies you made the whole the price was this didn't seem to recommend any banding um this but this this is this is how major copy system this town hall I mean you know so you're saying we're gonna pay a fee per copy and that covers the maintenance of the printers correct yeah yeah rather than paying rather than paying a yearly maintenance contract this is essentially the maintenance contract so we're not paying a maintenance contract the have a s p paying towards [Music] let me me not sure about that we're pay that of M for and we're for the toner pay for everything else but are we paying for the toner I thought the toner was included yeah it's included things like that are included only for cop so we only pay per copy we don't pay for maintenance we don't pay for toner I think I think so we're only paying for the for each piece of paper that we print for the toner maintenance and toner oh you sure on [Music] toner well I've never I've never well I haven't worked for four years but we always paid for but you know what you never know it depends on the contract signs up for yeah that's true product lines and even even the one that produces the plates go on the printers they were starting to go to a cost per they were going to lease the equipment and for every plate you made there was going to be a charge and that's how so do we know how many copies we make in a year or a quarter or a month or half year thousand well doesn't the computer count them yeah it's yeah the the printer counts don't fix your glasses I don't have my on sorry I was try to do oh so that would be me I have like five one for the computer one to ra one to drive so um so they did all that uh checking stuff okay yeah we just have to trust that the person who came up with this did their due diligence right but they're not related to the people that own the copy machine I guess well that could be that could be a true statement so that could very well be a true statement that's why I made it when you said that I thought about I said yeah that could that could be that could be I mean this is you know a PowerPoint proposal Z just we know that people did their homework that's all I just want to make sure because I understand what you're saying if if per per page includes maintenance and Tona that that probably is a decent day includes all parts supplies labor minus paper all parts supplies and labor minus paper is not a pot supp it is a supply Supply so sometimes you'll hear them called suppli sometimes you'll hear them called consumables well see you know that's the thing it's all about this language salad that the corporations have created right so in in this in the proposed solution it does say it and so the the monoc cost is is a half penny per black and white cppy and 5 cents per color cppy so now just saying are they going to be when you use that machine you have to use it per Department so is Department right I would I don't know that that that is and you know whether each department is going to come up or if there's going to be one single and again this the main bills will probably start coming in in FY 26 so when we see it we're going to ask Nelson who's you know where is exactly that is there going to be a charge per department and they going to get it in and reallocate the money you know single single bill paid out of the quter selectman yeah yeah and then they reallocate per per Department um usage yeah so that that that's that's the case that seems pretty reasonable I mean given this whole copier thing right yeah so it's kind of no color copies that's piece it's kind of like there has to be a little bit of um work done with it that when the printers are set up um that you set the default to black and white yeah because if you bite uh in error set it up as a color printer and then you run a big job that's a lot of a lot of pay yeah that's a lot of paper and you know maybe teach people how to cancel a job if it's if it's don't teach them how to change it to color though no whether it's you know whether whether it's two separate pages so you know it should always be default can you disable the color well might would there be a time when they might if they double if you double if you print doublesided is that one copy or is that two cop one page is it no because if it's counting it's going to that yeah yeah we we used to even have um account for blank how many blank pages here oh my how many what oh oh yeah you blank pages yeah that's not right now now I D no no no I'm saying it counted the blanks but it didn't count them as a oh oh it knew if it printed so it knows that okay I have 500 blanks so take away 500 from the print from the print chart all right so that's what to know and then we had the next one now is this I'm sorry it's kind of like if if we're if we we had already voted that article to approve it um so do we need to reconsider anything or is that just I don't think we need to reconsider now that we have some information the maintenance thing yeah information's vital here which is why we reached out to Town Administrator and and again that was just when I threw in we had already recommended it but I thought it was good first to have the additional information yeah we had it with the the presentation from zero was very well put together and and we were able to get that information so Article 13 is from Melissa that just left correct didn't she have shredding in no no that wasn't Melissa okay no this this isas oh she's not the treasure did I say treasur she's a treasur tax collector a treasur collector this is this is um the top one done this is accounting oh this is accounting office this so we haven't seen accounting yet so we don't know if it's going to be duplicate um okay so it okay so Article 13 is recommending let's see 1250 right and we had asked the question um how much for each there were two things in the article right and we were going to get more information on shredding for the whole time shredding is 600 whatever everybody okay so here's here's what this article is um the because it's it's in the one budget um the printer um2 the printer is2 the printer is 625 which the 600 for the shredding for the shredding now the 600 for the shredding is um and and again you're right Melissa had her shredding in but that's the daily shredding there's buckets that are collected around here oh you know it items that you printed out you trash so like when I cleaned out the the file cabinets it was a bucket that I filled up every day every time I came so it's not a so it's not a duplicate this this 600 um is was was reached out the the accountant office had $300 to $350 worth of um treading to be done it was done based on the volume um when I say volume it's not weight it's it's number of bankers boxes that they were going to do and there's no separate call out charge for the truck to get here it's just on the road they come over the 600 is the accountant reached out to other departments to get additional shredding in in there so there's going to be in addition to hers other departments are included in that they come in this case it's on demand it this just cleared out because there's records that are old that need to be destroyed and they're taking up the space and the ones that need to be stored clean out yes can't fit in the in the vault so these These are ready to be destroyed um and and again it it's kind of this this money is is in here um and it is two separate items but it's combined in one article but understanding it together okay all right sounds good do we have to vote on it again we we didn't vote on it before um so we do need to vote on it um and I need a motion we we need a motion um to recommend Article 13 for the printer and shredding for the account okay I'll make the motion to um vote on Article 13 to recommend that for shredding for the accountant and additional offices and a printer SC and printer to replace the printer scanner in the accounting office I'll second okay do we have a motion in a second any further discussion questions no okay then being heard uh a roll call Vote Yes David Walker yes car yes Mary Jane church for yes Dam Grant yes and Don yes so that will be unanimous that we recommend a printer do you want to change joh here in your in your information you say these for Article 13 to in this article one for printer for the treasures should that be Chang to accounting yeah yeah I was gonna say and Melissa would be happy that Katie is [Music] buing but Katie would be really disappointed because get one she wouldn't get one in the check would I definitely update that okay article 14 um we had heard that from Nelson on this article for additional information um and this article 14 was looking for $2,500 for um the town clerk to do the ecode update for the town Charter and Nelson's information back said that they would um make a motion to take no action on this article because they duplicate right um well we had Kathy in here to her and we BBA and she said that's that money was for updating so um it seems as though there was a communication gap somewhere that the article ended up on there uh but the information back from from Nelson was this so basically we don't need to do this we don't need to do this because it was already in our budget she already did it um so there's no need for the extra but we still need to vote on it at the town meeting because it's been posted oh it they may do a motion the Warr article will be there but the motion that Associates with it will be they'll make a motion to take okay so hopefully that one that one will go quick we don't we don't have people complain about that one should go quick um and and hit it so that um and I I did just just to make sure I did have a conversation with Kathy earlier today to validate that what we said was was true and Nelson had the conversation so all all groups finance committee Town Administrator Town CL are in agreement that that article and that money was not needed for good thank you joh good for us to find that now on 15 Article 15 Article 15 was asking for $5,000 um to go to the um building inspector line which is Line 39 which which is line 389 in the budget that was approved in um in Mar in May sorry it's kind of like um so what we what we I I copied the two lines that are that are sort of being impacted here from from the from the information I I'll update the column that says 7478 that was the fiscal year 24 budget for Building Commissioner the 58,000 is fiscal year 25 FY 25 yeah is 58,000 the budget that's what they want well that's that's what we voted oh we've already voted to pay that we voted to pay 58,000 to the Building Commissioner and and 4,250 to the alternate that's what was voted in may now they're asking now the ask on this line was $5,000 when we rebut it in the bbaa at the end of was $1,400 still still still there still there offsetting the 5,000 hopefully correct well they right so so um the response back from Nelson was the motion will be for the Le less than 5,000 less than being like 3,100 or 4,999 well5 if if if the siphon is $200 a week and it's 26 weeks left in the year in the in the payroll periods just as a so that that's roughly 3200 needed there's 1400 there so I don't know the exact number he hasn't forwarded the Motions the most yet okay um but it um if they need 3200 and we have 14 it should only about they might they might go a little bit higher they might go to 2,000 just in intra buffer in case he does extra work but that's three if it is 2,000 that they put in there that's 3,000 in cash yeah can we wait to see what they do just to vot no we have to be able to print 75 copies of these recommendations and the meeting's Tuesday and the meeting's Tuesday night so we we have to make our recommendation um but having done our due diligence we our recommendation is that the the number is is should be less than 2500 okay let's say it that way yeah okay can be less than 2500 yes because because it's still 1400 in there so that gives them and it's only until June J right it's only six months we're halfway through the year now that's being very generous and if we don't use it all then we can't get it back until free cash certification we don't want to give we don't want to give all money it's kind of like so our if our recommendation is 2500 it Max it should be probably in that area in in that area or less you know two 20 let's we can give it a range 2, to 2500 okay let's do that yeah I'll make a motion on that to uh to increase the amount decrease the amount decrease am decrease the amount from $5,000 to a range of two to 2,000 to 2500 for the alternate Building Commissioner salary second okay so we have a motion in a second get that here yeah I think so um any any further questions or discussion on what our recommendation for the article is so if as we vote on Article 15 our motion is going to be to recommend with our description that it should not exceed it should be in the range of 2, to 2500 yes so that's that's what we're going to say we're going to vote we're going to put that into our recommendations to pass out at meeting and get that back to to take um so the vote in the in the affirmative to recommend is is that based on our recommendation we didn't vote yet we have not so oh okay no it it I just want to make sure that when we're voting in the affirmative we know what oh if we say Yes means we say yes this is what we're voting for I don't want there to be any ambiguity into right whether's question Don just can I say something um that's fine I I don't really know if what the motion is going to be on the floor if it's if Nelson said it was less than that but if that's your recommendation you should be prepared to submit an amendment to the motion if in fact that's not what the motion is that's all yeah again he had said it would be reduced but didn't give an amount so it's kind of like um just doing the calculations we're trying to maximize thanks thanks Veronica um but we'll be we'll be prepared and and probably have a firm firm number in our in our range but so um and I'll work with Nelson see see what he's got for a number for sure um so what are we doing okay so we we're going to vote on Article 15 um and we're going to vote to recommend it with with our suggestion and also be ready at town meeting to um make a an alternate motion if it's if it's higher than the number we're put here if it's higher you can come down you can't go up yeah well right which so if if they make the motion on the floor to say be 3,000 then we would make a motion to amend that to bring it down to 2500 you can't we're recommending 2500 is okay okay and and again I think there's some we we in that Adam Adam's been on some we've had that question before and it's kind of like Adam thinks you can can go up you can can go up you cannot go joh saying Adam thinks we can so we we'll get clarification from Adam on that or yeah but isn't that like a Mass General law up or down will we'll see we'll see yeah it's kind of like that's a Town Council it's not a fact of of law confirm with the Town Council to make sure I I I can't I can't we don't know so we have to whether or not just kind of like oh I see what you're saying we don't know we don't know for sure so we we have to consult okay okay so we're still um going with a roll call vote on Article 15 to recommend based on our um recommendation for a value David Walker yes off yes Maring Church yes yes and John Hayes yes okay last article on the war excuse me I want to go back to this so I thought that if you had a budget and you we're gon to amend it you had to amend it prior to the voting so many days I mean I I you can spring that on the voter um we have we have done it pretty regularly yes it's kind of like if we go back to August we did this now when you when you do an article and you approve a line item um that is funding in line yes you but in the past I don't think we have been upfront with what is the impact of this article does it mean we so in this case where we're voting on a a labor line and putting more money into a labor account we're we're changing it so I think it's it's valuable to show this is the line that was in the warrant that you voted in May and now it's going to be increased by this value and to explain it now the other the other part of this that we we didn't bring up here and I probably will when we add up the two lines for this we're still running at a 10% lower um operating cost for these wages in the Building Commissioner compared to having the full-time commissioner last year yeah I see that so I I see what you're saying so so because we're lowering it in the amendment it's going to be lower than the $5,000 the amendment won't matter um no it it it matters to the line because now we have to change what the budget base is for FY 26 yeah so ultimately um this this line is going to come in with this additional funding so that we have the 58 58,000 on the commissioner line and this new value for the 4,250 with the increase whatever than whatever the line is um and I say that we we did that in about for the articles in the August 20th and we've done it multiple other times we we had passed the budget in F 23 and the town accountant came back later because we showed the full values of lines including aler funds and it was determined that that was an incorrect way to present the budget so we had to in September of that year modify about 12 lines in the budget that adjusted it to reflect the removal of the Opera funds that were being used to fund the operating budget so that's going down that that's that's reducing the that in some cases there was reducing did we ever go up on anything um I think we've gone up on L but we we didn't cly bring it to um to the attention of of anybody like this so this this is just we talk about the visibility this is the visibility into what this article is changing should we amend the motion to say not to exceed well now we're saying that we don't but now we're trying to discuss about we don't have the power to do that it won matter we don't know what Nelson's going to put we have voting at something we don't know we're we're voting on what we're recommending and we can we can we can modify the motion on the floor once it's been made if it's higher than I see okay if it's higher than what we anticipate between the two and 2, 2500 if they present 4500 on the FL and our recommendation is 25 we can make an alternate motion on the four that we recommend to decreasing it to 2500 correct okay all right that's what I didn't understand I I thought they were the final word okay but they're not they're the final they're they're the initial presentation to the town FL it says our motion is to fot this do you think in the explanation that you're going to put in that you should put that there's X number of dollars left this adding it comes to the I think you should do the math on that the 22 or 200 times 52 times I think people understand why why they change right right we can we can certainly put that in It's kind I be nice Nelson I I pulled this out today to put in here I haven't had a discussion with Nelson Nelson may agree that that's good number oh oh okay it's kind of like so this this this was our initial discussion at it um a after such time that I put it in writing and and Associated the the motion to to the line item to I had to go back to um the warrant and and what's posted on the on the town clk's website for the the approved motion I pulled out the lines that were associated with this then plck them in here so that we we have that visibility of exactly what are we changing yeah that's good but I like the idea that we can amend the motion based on our recommendation anybody can amend the motion on the oh you at town meeting any anybody can make an amend a motion on the FL you just have to get it the writing and get it back back to the town moderator who reads it and then there's a vote on the amendment to modify the motion okay thank you we vote from from visiting one we didn't vote on that one we did not vote on article 16 either no um because we we we were a little confused we because it came up and we we didn't vote on it we took the elction because we said something about we need something last year's cost and who did we pay and we wanted to verify the amount yes V transfer from free cash the sum is 6605 so I assume you got an answer I got an answer it was in it I did forward the I thought I forwarded I didn't see it yeah I think you did maybe I got this up to 15 I didn't see 16 okay so um okay with this um you'll see in the notes that I put together you will see a line 790 that we voted in the budget the description is general property liability and vehicle insurance and when we look at the BBA that line is 100% expended today okay so um we've got one line for three insurances and I think one insurance was higher than expected and anticipated and so now the workman's C is coming in and if it's a manual um or if it's in every three year there wasn't enough in the budget line to cover it because it's already 100% expended ince in December um so this funding would be to add to that line that amount of money so again um the FY 24 and 25 don't come so if we don't pay the that mean they won't audit us it's it's a requirement so we yeah so this is putting money into the budget line to pay to pay for this so it's going to it's going to go into the general property line so that they can pay or it's not just general property general liability it's all three of them work fun okay so maybe the idea is when we put a budget together maybe each one should be separ should be separate or maybe all three them should be in this section under General insurance as it lo line item so that we don't run into somebody stealing money from somebody else on the three insurances it's kind of like yeah I think it should be more delineated we put that as our comment recomend we can we we recommend that um in in the future and again we're into the F 26 planning so that's our recommendation planning um that that that we have that that the treasurer the insurance but the note will say TN ta suppies this information so that it's in her list of Insurance liability in that section but it's the last one on the line and it says ta will in the notes oh budgeted by ta y but that's General prop and liability then there's unemployment right so it's all it's all on the last line I think it should be separate separate okay but there's nothing we can do about it now because this is how it was done this is budget was put so for f 25 we can say the future f f 26 and out yeah so um that'll that'll be our notes going forward because when you when you combine things on the line that's what can happen I don't think that's a good idea so separate as much as you okay so she gave us her budget her Department budget so she didn't give us the Ben so but this is the benefit budget as well we didn't really right it's the benefits except for health that's coming I'm sorry General general property liability vehicle insurance and work is not on her oh okay that's gonna get budgeted by the T okay that gets budgeted by gotcha so that's when we when we see that budget from the Town Administrator okay okay okay so what are we doing with so we're taking the $665 from free cash and giving it to we're we're giving it to to the general property liability vehicle insurance and workers comp line specifically for the work workers comp section of this payment so again this will be an increase of the 3, 355,000 it would go up by 66 so we're talking do you want to make this motion um the motion going to be recommended the rest of this I think is the explanation how much money is it probably getting 6605 6,65 but it covers three different no only cover CS work but because the line all three we have to put it into this line so we can pay the work that's why was saying for the future we're going to separate out those three lines to make it clearer where the money is going not just or or or again in the explanation similar to what um Melissa did is give us specifically yeah that would help that would help GNA keep it at one line give us the break the line down whatever she calls it yes she did that she did a great job with that that was very helpful so the Motions just to recommend the um the sum of 6605 from free cash for the purpose of funding the cost associated with the annual audit of the town's Workers Compensation Program yeah okay so I just did that who wants a second okay we have walk with a second um any additional discussion or questions that a call vote and we we are recommending that the 6 approv David Walker yes car yes yes Carol yes Dam Grant yes yes um and then the last two we did vote it or we're making no recommendations on planning planning board articles that are being presented Y and that would be our whole warrant so update the recommendation sheet based on and input and I'll probably send you the minutes tomorrow because well I have it fresh my head the last time when I didn't have my computer for like three weeks it took me forever to get those like what did I I was trying to read my headst it's like so holy hell are we are we done them because we've got a couple more yeah I had a couple um we haven't done any um the review of the newsl we don't have anything additional um I did want to mention on the newslet um I think I sent it out a screenshot of the fin the finance committee oh I saw that yes I just that the manuals that we have are online on the finance so so in addition to having the hard copies that we have given out to the committee uh soft copy is available already online so don't you have to pay $24 to get into it no no the 24 the $24 was to print them and buy them from MMA oh but MMA provided us the file how we printed the manuals and so now we we have that hard copy and we were talking about making it available to anybody that wants to reference the information it is available on the finance committee website town and finance and finance committee yeah I it was the timing was I I went and looking for something at the finance committee web page and I saw them and then the next morning I got the note from the um Web Master that it was updated and available so timing timing wise was was right there so he had just finished it and sent me the update and I had seen it just hours before receiving that notification so and and I think car was copied on it because anything I do with copy he just so we got so we are going to meet on the 30th um we um okay so the newsletter will will hold off but I want to just mentioned that if and when we're ready we can post plus we can post it up on oh okay so I I didn't um do it because we had all those five questions so I work on it um and try to get it ready okay but if you're gonna have the recommendation page for this town meeting maybe I won't go crazy okay for this town meeting okay I'll think about it I'll let you know okay um and we still don't have the omnus budget we put put together we um I heard you me I thought I heard you mention earlier that we got the free cash certified for fiscal 24 we did uh if I haven't followed it out I'll how much do you know how much do I mean 25 you mean 25 or 24 it's 24 free certification was for fisal year 24 for last year's fiscal year yes they closed in June when it closes in June and that's why that's why when we tie up free cash and put it into where nine like this it's not available for seven months to be if we don't use if we don't use it oh I forgot this is 202 I forgot I forgot what year we were was how much was it certified for U I don't know just looking now see if I can 62955 6, 28,9 628 955 really yes again because we had the property sales ining from November of 2023 you sold three properties um probably rang so that would have helped balance out that 800 um well we we've just voted to transfer from these articles all am of money but that was that was before this certification so this was from me free Cas no I guess what I'm saying is that we had that great big drama over being so very short where was the 628 th000 during that okay episode tied up it's it's kind of if if we're talking operating budget roughly 400,000 of that is not available because it's not recurring funds it's from the sale of a property it's kind of like it's one time funds you're only you're supposed to support and fund your operating budget with recurring Revenue oh but so so we could instead of the trash we couldn't have used this 628 th000 instead of the page you go thing not really okay you I get if if you wanted it to to be included in your tax bill the answer is no because 400,000 of that was not recurring Revenue we have to find the revenue sources have to be recurring the pay you throw bag money is recurring the tax bills and you're saying 628 so the goal of us or the the budget is to not have $628,000 sitting there for a whole year that you can't use right well that's that's a piece of it but of that 628 400,000 isn't usable because it was a one-time property set and you're not going to have $400,000 theer not gonna have that 400,000 come in next year no I know but we had it okay I understand that it's not going to come in again but we had last year that's what I'm saying but we couldn't use it because it certified so it was not certified what I mean so actually so yes and so now these articles we're putting in next Tuesday we're going to we're are going to go through the process and the steps of potentially getting them listed getting it to the auction but if that auction doesn't happen before June it's not going to those sales won't even make it into the fy2 free cash they'll be Reven fy6 which means we'll be into 27 before we certified it's kind of like so timing timing is everything and there proba why we're doing it in the in the January special town meeting is to try to push it along want to be there before June right and again you could you can use this money for capital budget it's kind of like you know can you use it for for doing this 620,000 what I'm talking is the portion of it that is onetime fund but we take 400,000 off six we only have $200,000 you you have of you had a two let's and just to make it easy it's kind of like you had if 400 of this was one time was one time you had 228,000 200,000 usually is like not used or two to three yeah that's say oh okay what's anabil stabilization fund um um I don't have the exact number I think it's around 1.1 million because we were 1.2 1.3 um before we before we transferred 400,000 as far as recurring Revenue portion of it it's kind of like but that 400 could be used for Capital it could be used instead of going out and getting loans if it's not it's not that it's unusable but it's not a recurring Revenue that can be used to support an operating budget but right but fire trucks in other things are not so we could use it for the 83,000 that we have to find to fund finishing off buying the fire Tru Tru right one time because it's a one time that's a onetime expense this is a onetime income so it would be appropriate to possibly use that for that for some of those and and we'll find other items I mean some of to me some paying back stabilization that moved out we're we have crack down when you look at our town budget and how much we have in stabilization our percentage of stabilization fund to operating budget is shrinking it should be going is it suppos to be like 10% um that's that's deal when the Auditors are talking um that's the ideal number um it's good for Bond ratings and and things like that when you have lower numbers and you start going lower your bond rating starts going lower too and you have to pay more at interest so it's a it's a balance we it's something we probably haven't watched is we should be doing a chart and Publishing total total budget stabilization Fund in percent of of of that so we we watch the health of of where we are so that that's some again something new we haven't seen it before time to kind to look at it yeah that's a very good point and the other thing that's a little disturbing in terms of budgeting moving ahead this cost of living thing does that keep going I mean 4% is 8% is 12% is 16% over 40 that that's an uncontrollable cost right it's but once they sign the contracts it's known we we we don't we we see the results of the signed contract so we don't know what the negotiations are going in the negotiations going in should be we only we only get the guaranteed Two and A half% Plus new grow in could put you over they have a um like a pay scale right so like for I don't know if I think it works something like the federal government you know you get the step one through 12 and then you go over the years or something and then your salary goes accordingly so we have to really budget for that going out we need to we need to that can't be a yearly thing no we shouldn't be doing it the other year when when we look at the budget procedure and that's going to be one of the conversations we have to have is we're supposed to be of the 5e forward looking budget and we haven't had that everything has been year to year we need it we need we need the visibility and we should because that gives you if even if you can't be you you can't be sure five years out how far you're going maybe even three years a road map yeah yeah and and a plan because you know what's what's the plan for growth within the department are you going to need to add people are you going to are there new I can't wait I mean if there's a p if there's a pay scale that goes out so many years or so many steps at least you have a basine right well that's right we're handcuffed to it by the union the government but at least you can look at five years and say okay I have this many employees and what step what step or grade or whatever they're at so we know we know that that's the minimum amount of money for Sal it might be some cost of living adjustments or stiens in there that change it but at least you have something to that you could work with and have an idea what the what you're looking at for a minut right right right because I can see that that that that alone can escalate yeah over a fiveyear period so all right do we have any correspondents um it was really just the um certification for the did you oh I forgot about that I don't I did not I didn't I'm not FR right Friday 31st next week next week if did you do it I didn't do it yet I don't think I gotta look on my computer I do so much let you know I'll put you in if you yeah I think I I think I said yes I would go but I forgot until you said it so so there four of us any is Sam going Sam are Sam done am I going where are the meeting there there is a there is an invitation from the Sha Valley Technical right no I that we talked about that last time no thank you not this time I've uh got too much work to do around here you come to meeting Tuesday night um will you'll be in um in the building on U the 28th 31st I'll be there for the meeting down meeting okay we'll see you on Tuesday make sure okay do we have to sit up at the table yes yes yeah all right I'll do that it's okay no one's going to Hur you we'll protect you I'm not worried about when I sit in the back I get up and leave whatever want to back of the church yes back pew yeah the the only things we had we we had other meetings we had dis discussed in the February time frame I didn't get them on here um and that you know those dates yet the February I think one of the earlier minutes I if if you can email them out tonight that's or tomorrow whatever that's so we have the 30th to 6 o' again because the special time meeting is Tuesday um at at this point uh Nelson is trying to coordinate with us in the board SEL through February the days we're going to have joint meetings um are we having joint meetings with Board of selectman Bo so I we get to ask questions and things like that yeah um well that that has to be determined so that's one of the items for the 30th I had in thrown out that we're meeting at 6 o'cl on the 30th to see if um for S want to meet to plot the schedule for February so then for sure and and I do have a a few dates 11 February is a meeting with the fire Ms that's what that's what we had requested but if want to do it on a different day we have we might need to be flexible with the with those um is it always a Tuesday and or Thursday um it's for us it was the Thursday meetings were when the select Bo which is the first and third Tuesdays when they were when select board was meeting on that Tuesday we were going to meet on Thursday so yeah so every other week we go Thursday Tuesday Thursday Tuesday through the month oh you send yeah I'll send you yeah that's right because we can't meet every Tuesday because we'd be in direct conflict with the board of s however if they want us to invite to the finance committee and do the joint at one of their meetings then we'll be Tuesday and potentially leave the Thursday okay so we we'll try to meet once a week as long as we get just schedule done um and the Tuesday Thursday thing it's going to have to be so we don't know who we're going to be meeting with at the next meeting after the January January 30th yeah I I would say it's kind of like we're going to have that conversation but we can you know as early as we can and hopefully next Thursday we can we can seate the schedule so we can do the invitations to give the department heads that sounds good okay work I'll make a motion to adjourn second yeah we need the time 9 903 903 call vote David Walker yes car H yes chur yes Grant yes yes it's unanimous