##VIDEO ID:Qhf4rpSMuQM## good evening everyone my name is Laura shiffon and I am calling the meeting of planning board uh to order on September 23rd at 6:35 p.m. um I'll just have everyone introduce themselves Carol hofus Rob Daran kuk Andrew shepher and Laura sheiff at the moment uh Lance is absent with notice and [Music] having said that please join me in theedge of [Applause] aliance Al the United States of America and to the for it stands one nation under God indivisible with liy andice thank all of our veterans out there and all all those is currently serving as well as our First Responders meeting is being recorded and will be uploaded to the town of towns and YouTube channel 1.4 Chairman's additions or deletions um Lance is is absent this evening so I'd like to appoint our alternate to be a voting member this evening uh Patrick you will be voting number okay thank you and then also session she was gonna add that okay um Robert you had sent an email with some discussion about Wellness verbiage yeah just go ahead I'd like to add that to 3 point to section and make that 3.5 for us to discuss is okay with that and the other change that we have this evening is that U Mr Bo has sent an email stating that he um was going to be delayed so he's on for 7 DM okay then so we're g to go into 1.5 uh approval discussion of the draft of the minutes for September 9th 2024 so moved um it's minor but my last spelled incorrectly well that it's correct oh okay it's incorrect in paragraph 1.1 okay no other objections thank you so just I I didn't always know this and maybe everybody else does know this but when you are looking at the YouTube video of the meeting the transcript is there so you can well it's not there automatically but there's a a button at the bottom of that you can push and close captioning yeah yes it tells you everything that was said yeah so it's a great way to um to review minut yeah oh yeah okay um then we have the administrative report oh no my motion I wish to approve the meeting minutes uh and change Patrick's last name in the section where it's SP wrong okay second okay any further discussion no hearing none all in favor say I I I and I okay very good the minutes are approved um phone I wasn't I don't mind let's just go into uh work session and we'll have Beth do the administrative report when she gets back up here I I'm not sure that we're expecting anybody else to come to the meeting me text her or you want to text her yeah you can text her and ask her if she can just come back up because we're not expecting anybody else and she can just leave the rock there um we'll make sure it's gone when we leave leave yeah while we're waiting um do you have uh I'm not going to do it I'll just do it when you do then don't so we'll go to 3.1 um CBA mandatory referral um is that the old gas station that's abandoned yeah down that way yeah oh okay because I was reading it and I was like well the only place I could think of was there was an old DE B the gas station so they want to make it into a a gas station gas station a coffee shop in a convenience store with the speed word was um that's a little before my time but I think yes that's what it was the speedway over by to for yeah oh cool yeah yeah good yeah I think we'll just go to 1.6 and have that hope the town support three gas stations I don't know yeah I don't know of your report oh of mine no I probably maybe everyone come oh yeah we're in session and yeah oh maybe that yeah the administrative report for the 23rd um we have for ation the board has received a Agri Development Special permit site plan review special permit and St Water Management permit application stamped in with the town clerk on August 26th and that is the property at 1o Road Extension the planning board public hearing is scheduled for October 21st um 645 18 Main Street the planning board has received an application for site plan review special permit um the project is a Starbucks at the Harbor Village Mall an application is under review by staff for completeness right now and um the planning board public hearing will probably be I'm thinking early November um 108 111012 West Meadow Road the storm water management permit application they have requested a certificate of completion and um staff is scheduling an inspection probably going to be out there on Thursday 27 scales Lane in your last meeting you voted to approve the certificate of completion um I've generated the certificate and Brett King has signed it so now we're it needs to be recorded and that's all wrapped up 22 Main Street as you know is ongoing uh the board extended the special permit uh the next meeting is the expiration of the special permit and a letter was sent to the owner on September 17 2024 with a friendly reminder that that deadline is approaching no no response sorry no response okay 108 Pittburgh Road um the board received recorded planning board decisions and um the only outstanding item for that project is the the permit holder um is also supposed to record the operation and maintenance plan for the storm water management um permit so that has to be done but everything is is all set for that uh site visits and compliance nothing new really um miscellaneous nothing really new there either and [Music] um yeah I think that's kind of kind of it a lot of it is repeat so in terms of things that are on your agenda okay okay any questions from the board was it I'm sorry there was a new application there were two new applications and they were for what uh age restricted development uh special permit a site plan review special permit and a storm water management permit and the second one is an application for site plan review special permit so those are both planning board applications and um public hearing for the first one is October 21st and the second one is yet to be determined because we're still reviewing the application to make sure it's complete what what are the two projects H what are the two projects uh we Depot it's an age restricted development for one Depot extension Depot Road Extension age restricted development site plan review storm water management permit and 18 Main Street is site plan review special permit for Starbucks for starbu Starbucks Starbucks Coffee coffee shop that's where we're at coming up in the world that that does seem like a status symbol for really we're moving on up here something be yeah I don't know if it's moving up or if it's moving down but my grandchildren would be they love Starbuck I hate Starbuck about we are welcoming accept all applicants I already said that um uh 2.1 I already announced that 2.1 was at 7 o'clock fantastic thank you so they all know and uh the next maybe this all goes with one all right sorry guys uh 3.1 yeah there's aint the most of the application is case study but there's a site plan if you want to look at it yeah this one here yep okay well I know to pass this down to the engineer this is just one big thing right Main Street commercial building what used to be the gas station on the left is that what you were saying yeah okay here's the plan great fix that yeah here's plan and then you were saying that this all is a lot of case study yeah from the attorneys that's all part of the application um a pre-existing business as you know okay so I guess all right I guess we know that but let me read the referral thing and you guys can look at this okay please review the attached application and relate to the zoning board of appeals any questions of concerns you may have by email that or Independent Mail this referral is required under 14565 of the to zoning by law under Mass Jing Law chapter 4A Section 8 ments should be provided within 35 days failure to make recommendations shall be deemed lack of opposition um on this if I may just add one thing um in the application if the applicant acknowledges that the project will um be going before this Bo for site plan review that's acknowledged in there okay that was one of my questions this looks more like a fighting board thing you know but it's actually you know right now before the Zoning Board of of appeals for the views okay so their date of hearing is October 16th at 635 I'm sorry that's a wrong date on that it's the 23rd it was changed 23rd of October so we as a planning board in terms of comments for the zoning board would be specific to use yes that's right it'll then come before us that's right exactly okay yeah so and so it's 324 Main Street Partners LLC uh Morning News the date in according with Mass General law 48 and town and Zoning bylaw Town zoning board of appeals will hold a remote anyway it's it's now the 23rd for the hearing at 6:35 the applicant is proposing renovations to the pre-existing non-conforming structures by renovating and reconstructing an existing vacant gas station and convenience store located at 324 Main Street the project includes reconstruction providing a new commercial building containing a convenience store second floor office space and a coffee shop with drive-thru service reconstruction of a new pump station and canopy is proposed providing eight fueling positions along with 24 marked parking spaces and a new sign location the property is in ra3 zoning district and the anle for protection overlay okay so um comments from the board is there any reason why they couldn't put like gas in an aquifer overlay District if there's like a gas leak or something I mean is anything they do have I I did read about like the double walled tanks and tanks protections and stuff that they have I'm sure they have all was I think that site was contaminated before and was I was gonna ask be new about or the Land There was that ever contaminated or has that been [Music] remediated I'm sure it does it's been a long time yeah not as long as the 50 years or about almost 50 years in the harbor but not too many years after that yeah yeah and wasn't it just two pumps yes two pums okay so now they want to do six eight um four stations picture The Bu station be a lot further back than what it is it's like two and two two and two yeah yeah so all right so this is the uses to retail store motor vehicle F dispensing station fast food restaurant and a professional office on the second floor the use area retail 1,200 square ft² restaurant 800 square ft it's the drive-thru take out no seats 12 2,000 foot office um spaces required one for every 180 square feet a minimum of five Restaurant t 10 spaces per takeout station office five spaces per 1,000 square ft or minimum five the talking demand is seven spaces um for the retail 10 for the restaurant 10 spaces for the office uh minimum require 27 the site site review the parking one handicap space a lot size yeah they should have it on there see it ACR maybe on the plan it's 200 feet FR and it goes 343 feet to the rear so it's pretty big L well not really uh it's 200 by 600 on we'll get it all right [Music] 200 321 so it's about an acre and a quarter a bland 6,400 yeah I don't have any comments okay so talking about electric vehicles or electric vehicle stations not long you can't suggest that they do anything with that right way to I wouldn't no but isn't there there was yeah when we wanted to um what's the right word here we were getting a grant for one down for the rail trail in that area I have no idea it's possible that's I hear that I did hear that they get some gr for station oh really it says 2 Acres but that that's a good idea maybe putting in one at a gas station I think in the master plet it's something like incentivize developers to put in electric I guess there's a coffee shop there so if you're sitting for an hour charging your car you coffee no there's no seeds yeah but you can there's no you can sit in your car yeah yeah I just I don't know what incentives we can provide to to do that um if any consider we urge you to consider yeah basically that's all you can do yeah because you you pay do you pay I see I don't know how these work do you put a charge card in the in that you pay for the electricity yes like you're paying for gas okay so it's not on the people that own the building they're not paying for the electricity so pay okay oh I have no idea you stick your charge card in if you have a charger there on your property who's paying the electric who's paying me I see I don't know how that works like a public charger is it just onard then part of me would think that is it they pay you and you pay Unitil that's what I would think if you if you own the property you're going to own the station sure yeah you're going to get the I don't know how might depend because I'm sure there's popup stations that get owned by I don't know different charging companies probably okay but for zoning purposes they want a referral so is are they going for a variance no it's a pre-existing non-conforming so it's a reuse or reconstruction of it they um if you see their their permit that existed before they have been granted special permits to operate at the gas station in the past so they want to revitalize that and reconstruct it and better I is a great idea I do too yeah I'm all yeah it's kind of been an isore for many many many years and something little Commerce coming back to town and in a little revitalization big so is it the same owner I don't then the owner [Music] is do you have the field card there or public record I did a SE and these are there's some gas stations associated with his name in pitchburg that I saw called the expr that that are bigger obviously oh than what we looked at when we look down here okay I think they just put one like that in North lumer too didn't they uh I potentially I've seen that to that kind of top this by no means is sure I just Googled it and that's what came up you know may or may not um consensus is yeah we would encourage that anything to toight so now why not Revitalize it and make it and income the town could be a good thing I always find towns in gas to be a little higher than some other areas so maybe a third player in the mix might uh well I like the convenience store aspect of it too because not a lot of places just to stop and get a quart of milk in town um so I just put we we encourage revitalization of this site yeah that sounds good notos to Patrick's comment I just don't know we don't really have any teeth or anything it' be up to I guess them you know if they think there's a business use in a business case right you know it's not like we have a bank account we can incentivize developers here's exra whatever do we provide the applicant once we do we provide do we provide the applicant pre pre review thing not for this project no no um they theyve already had a staff level meetings we will see them they will come before us as well looking at this and um I think in order to do a comprehensive review um I assume this is the dumpster location but I'm not sure it doesn't say and then u a lot of these kinds of facilities um they don't have outdoor trash barrels and um and it it can be a problem in in some of the drive-thru kind of things and um gas station usually has trash barrels well but they're not mandated yeah so for example if you go to the air rotary McDonald's has got trash barrels all around his site Wendy's does not have one so just a comment there uh the project will come to the planning board after they go to the zoning board of appeals and get their special permit and that's just the logical progression because if they didn't get the use permit they wouldn't be coming the planning board but they will be coming you know so there's nothing in here on lighting either I saw there is actually a whole written application as well there a number of pages to the written application but at this point it's before the zon Board of appeal so oh it is yes that that the year com is to you know give them some input on oh the the 300,000 foot view you know and knowing that it is going to come to planning board once they get a use permit from zba okay assuming they do all right thank you 3.2 acceptance of responsibility to riew and act on a and act with an application for site plan review special permit uh this is from the land use Court yeah this is from the land use coordinator and it says Dear members the land use office is in receipt of a three-part application for an upcoming project to be presented to the board at a later date one portion of this application package is for a storm water management permit given the proposed site disturbance reported by the applicant this project would fall within the minor project category as such the storm water permitting Authority for the project would be the storm water agent who at this time is The Building Commissioner upon discussion with the Building Commissioner we propose the planning board take on the responsibility of the permitting Authority for this portion of the application package to best allowed for fluid review and efficient updates to application materials if required the board would still review and issue a determination following procedural review as a minor project lanu staff can assist with the board assist the board with this process and is as it is less intensive than typical major projects that we are heard by the board board at this time I request the planning board to accept a one-time responsibility to act as a storm lad Authority for this minor project I appreciate the consideration of this matter respectfully Jess consola L's coordinator Jessica did you want to speak to this uh hi sure yeah quickly um we just Beth had had brought it up in her admin report already we have a site plan special permit an a restricted Development Special permit and then a minor storm water management permit so I think just for the applicant um just just trying to be as efficient as possible to have all three applications reviewed by one permitting entity I think would be the smoothest approach uh the Building Commissioner has given his Blessing for this and and also feels like it it would be the best process for the applicant okay I agree with the efficiency of it uh any other comments from the board no um if you agree I'll entertain a motion that um we accept responsibility we accept responsibility for this um storm order management uh minor project versus the build a commissioner what just exactly what are those responsibilities entail Jessica is going to take care of it okay not not us um what when they Chang the storm water permits uh it was I forget his name they reduced right they redefined it they reded when he would did the minor and the major was yeah so that at that time he was I thought he was the land use coordinator and um split up the job between the building department if it was minor and it defined what was minor versus major sort of there was some yeah was leeway for reading into that um and at this point in time we don't have a full-time Building Commissioner I don't even know he's fulltime one day two days two two days a week so um I think it's probably a good idea for the applicant as well as the board sure okay so um everybody in favor of that say I I any oppose nay okay I will sign okay um the next is 3.3 disc discuss oh and we're after seven so maybe he's not done yet okay um discuss approach timeline to updating town since existing accessory apartment bylaw to comply with the Amendments of mass Law chapter 40 in affordable homes act did you want that to be under fill as well well oh Jessica you're on I'm here again hello all right um so is everyone sort of semi-familiar with the the new upcoming Adu requirements from the state or would just a quick like one minute background be helpful for any members yes please all right got it all right so um the the the latest State legislation that has been issued in the in 3A there in the zoning Act is that adus or accessory dwelling units or or in our bylaw known as accessory Apartments um are to to be by right subject to reasonable regulation um but by right in residential district starting February 2nd 2025 so it's not ideal timing related to a town meeting for anybody any municipality Massachusetts um but the proposed allowable size is 900 square feet or half of the gross floor area of the principal dwelling whichever is smaller so the new legislation also indicates that there can be no special permit or other discretionary zoning approval for adus in a residential zoning District um with the contingency being if the proposed size that 900 square ft or half of the square foot of the principal dwelling if the proposed size of the Adu exceeds those then a special permit can be required locally so otherwise starting on February 2nd the state law will supersede uh any instance where there is a conflict between the state law and our local zoning bylaw so here it would generally be that um our Adu bylaw currently requires a special permit and that an occupant of the Adu must be a blood relative so those two are those two requirements in our bylaw will be conflicting with the state law starting in February so um the the new state law says that there there can be adus by right subject to reasonable regulation which was mentioned earlier so it that could mean a site plan review um like a a non-discretionary site plan review but at this time we do not have that as an option in our bylaws we only have that site plan review special permit the 14542 I think it is in our zoning bylaw so um regarding that fact I believe the board was previously notified that we are teaming with mrpc and have submitted a planning assistance grant application to review and revise our site plan review special permit bylaw um to firstly incorporate a non-discretionary review protocol and then secondly to review the remaining zoning bylaw for places where it currently would be conflict actually conflicting to require a special permit for a byright use so once that this Revis bylaw it's complete and adopted by the town at a town meeting the site plan review um the sort of the non-discretionary site plan review could be utilized for example for upcoming changes to the Adu bylaw um age restricted developments renewable energy projects it could also be incorporated into the future MBTA bylaw so um we will not hear about that planning assistant Grant award and for probably about another month at this point um we are expecting to be awarded but until that point um no none of these tasks would be initiated by mrpc um so once the site plan bylaw is revised using grant funding we can then work with mrpc further to incorporate that non-discretionary site plan review section into a revised Adu bylaw that meets the the new state requirements um that portion of the project could be funded using already established DTA funding um so the timing for improvements to both of these bylaws really does not align with a potential F fall town meeting vote um that would happen maybe in December or January of this year um so we are targeting to have both these proposed updates and amendments um for annual town meeting in the spring so if the board would rather propose that we do the site plan bylaw at annual town meeting just to see how that goes and then have the Adu bylaw to be at the fault 2025 meeting we can do that um utilizing that latter schedule would just leave the town and the Building Commissioner to rely almost exclusively on the state laws for any Adu applications between February and fall town meeting of next year thank you for the report y um at this point I think that your synopsis works I don't think we have any other choice but that and I don't know how complicated the changes need to be for they they're pretty cut and dry right the the only thing they unit is not a complex thing to address the the site plan review has to be addressed because it's not just um there are a lot of building types that require that or projects and so we can't it's it's more of an expanded view when you start studying that because uh um so the Adu is very Project Specific and it has to meet regular zoning setbacks and all the other things that we already have so that's not so but what is Jessica is presenting supposing somebody wants and to increase the 900 square foot they could go for a special permit huh they could go for a special permit that's correct and then they would have a site plan review so other things that come in that category are also guest houses and things like that um so I don't know if an Adu would be considered a guest house or not well guest usually means guest and well guest usually means you're just going to have guests you know so but uh an Adu is actually an apartment that or an accessory attached whatever to the house that would be occupied all the time is is there a different definition for guest what do yes I think you're correct okay so a all right so right currently we have accessory apartment it says apartment specific the state law does not use the term apartment it says unit which is very generic okay um so if we have an accessory use apartment that would imply that that was a year round residents and permanent occupancy if you're talking about a guest house um I don't know if we've really defined it in our a detached huh detached it does the Adu requirement by the state doesn't designate whether it's attached or freestanding so is that something that's a big concern To Us guest houses um well it's a it's a regulatory thing I mean what it's not a concern for us immediately in Townsen but it's a concern for other like Resort communities okay and these people end up staying long terms of time or don't leave so a lot of these what do they call it when you rent a house ental b&bs yeah they're having trouble with the people leaving is there a loophole that we're trying explain yeah it's a different world I'm just like trying to think of all the things that would impact this stuff you know okay Jessica do you have anything U to comment on that um I was just trying to listen and also read at the same time so I didn't actually get to read anything but um we do have the the new definition for an Adu um which I was trying to figure out if it mentions anything about detached or if it's a house or if it's just a one-bedroom um I don't I don't want to speak either way because I didn't get to read through it all um well I think they go by square foot I don't think they describe it so much as it can only be Des my understanding it's you could it's it it's either it doesn't need to be attached it can be a free spending structure yeah I think I think it can be attached or detached just with as long as it has its own um entrance but I mean we're we are lucky in Townsend that I mean apart from some of the the more significant subdivisions in town um otherwise the vast majority of our residential Community is on either two or three acre lots so having a 900 square foot unit wouldn't be entirely detrimental to the aquafer or whatever other environmental resources might be below um but that that is why it would be wise for the board to adopt a a non-discretionary site plan review process for adus so that not everyone in copper Smith for example is maxing out a square footage of a unit on the property and and adding in septic capacity and all that okay I'm gonna Jessica Joe is here now and he was on last on for like 7 o'clock but he's here now so would you mind um if we of course not at all okay thank thank you very much Jessica okay Joe welcome you're on mute Jo you're muted and now I am unmuted good evening everybody sorry that took longer than I thought um but I'm here for you now okay where Where Were You Joe if you don't mind us asking where are you taking us tonight oh I I am here tonight to uh for the final items on the uh MBTA hopefully we can uh finalize that and to talk a bit about the uh process going forward on the Adu bylaw Joe are you in your car I am in my car now yes I am sitting outside lemonster City Hall okay I have my stuff okay okay so we have your edits M um and would you like to quickly go through them and just one moment so I made edits based on the feedback that I got last time uh okay uh the purpose statement has been modified uh to oh it went uh I'm I'm reading directly from the we have your edits in front of us okay uh and the version the updated version uh I uh corrected uh uh as I said in the uh September 12th memo corrected a missing word in item two and to incorporate the concept of Wellness into item three in the purpose statement so that has been changed in the purpose statement uh I removed definitions related to the affordable H the affordable units be uh from the um uh definition section because we no longer have an affordable section in the in this bylaw uh I I made a a minor um formatting change to make it clear uh in the itional Services section that the numbered items uh the numbered statements below the charts uh apply to the entire district and aren't part of the single two Family Table okay the way I I I I had it formatted before those statements come after the two family the uh table for the single and two family homes which it has a statement the following applies to the single single and two family homes and so I wanted to make sure that each of those that those statements it was clear they applied to multif family projects as well um the setback from fitzburg Road has been increased to 35 feet uh item number five item two under dimensional standings standards the setbacks for free sing accessory buildings I has been Rewritten there was it used to say that there was a 5- foot setback for accessory buildings it now says that there is a 5- foot setback for uh accessory buildings uh except those that are used for human habitation AKA an accessory dwelling unit in a separate building those are uh it now refers to the land space requirement table which refers to accessory structures for human habitations and sets a 15ot setback so so that the existing 15t setback for a accessory dwelling units in your zoning is now being applied within the the MF okay and uh number six uh I created that 35 foot vegetated buffer around the edge of the district that 30 foot five uh setback for all multif family dwellings located within 50 F feet of the zoning boundary okay so whenever there is a multif family building located within 50 feet of the zoning boundary that is the outside of the site there needs to be a 35 foot vegetated buffer those are the changes uh it Incorporated each of the items that you brought up as well as a couple of things that iot which needed to change based on previous changes okay the the only thing I uh I remember we discussed was um when there's a separate freestanding accessory use building um the distance between them remember we had this conversation about the distance between buildings um yes uh which um I don't know if we gave you specific Direction on but we there was a concern about how close these buildings could be to one another on a common lot right yes I remember that convers I remember that issue coming uh being discussed and as I call it was left at there are other requirements the the fire code and the building code requiring setbacks as well as the site plan review um coming into play then that we could cover those under those um if you're specifically um as we draw up an Adu ordinance to um uh to cover rules about about setbacks a uh Adu setbacks from other buildings uh to cover it in that and when the other situation where that might come up was if there were somebody was to build like a multif family campus with with with multiple buildings on it and that would then fall under your your site plan review uh under your site plan review triggers if we had a multif family campus yes yes if somebody was building multiple multif family buildings on a lot and so that would trigger a site plan review uh the a yes we're writing the way the Adu bylaw the the multif family overlay district is written yes it would yeah between the multif family overlay District bylaw uh the multif family overlay District bylaw says that any project with in the MF requires site plan review okay okay yeah any multiple buildings that hasn't changed what's that I don't I don't think that's a change I think anytime we well when was the last time we had multiple buildings I don't remember but it would seem that the way we've been talking in the past that if there were multiple buildings especially for this now is where this is coming up right that there would be a site plan review remember we were talking about like even a mixed use of single two family three family and then apartment building or to units that would be side plan review okay that wouldn't just happen there would have to be all right I just wanted to be I remember having that conversation and everybody was talking about like a freestanding building and then I'm like what about if there's multiple numbers of them together then the only uh so Joe I think you did a great job covering everything we talked about last time thank you any other comments from the board regarding Jo [Music] um the um I think that covered what we discussed in our last meeting the uh it's is are we working with Joe on the um accessory use stuff too we we yes we have a a um contract with you we were going to do a uh review your accessory dwelling um unit by law even before all of this even before uh it passed you had a there was a different uh it was kind of you a different vision for how you wanted it amend it um we didn't do anything on that based on the fact that we had that we we were concentrating on the MBTA work and uh it quickly became apparent that there was this build under consideration the state legislature so we took a a wait and see attitude and now we see and uh we need to write up a new Adu bylaw based on that so I think we just take that existing contract and um uh work under that so that I can work with you on your adus so um that's what was stated but Jessica you just said something different about um the DTA Grant and another Grant y that's that's the same funding sour okay the other Grant I think is the site plan review special permit Grant we're waiting to hear about a pag oh my God I was just thinking about wording you call it instead of site plan review site plan approval those those are the words that lber uses in their code sounds a little more plan approval versus [Music] review our responsibility yeah the non-discretionary one you know not the special permit that you call a site plan approval that's what uses IE might think about Joe um Beth was saying what do you think about site plan re approval versus site plan riew your existing am I still muted I'm sorry can you hear me yes yes we can hear you now okay um uh your existing zoning with your site plan review special permit uses the term review and so I had been using the term site plan approval for the purpose of making it clear and keeping it distinct we're going to replace your site plan review section with a site plan approval section so that everyone know which one to just mentioning that that's what lunenberg uses the approval verbiage versus the review okay very good right but it's not in the the MF draft bylaw if you look at the bylaw he us a site plan review doesn't he which number is that is that what you're talking about looking at the bylaw here and applicability site plan riew is required for any project proposed within the msod a it's applicability approval okay apparently in one of your drafts in section A you use the term uh review instead of approval yes I see that good catch I see that okay that's Beth Beth caught [Music] that you yay um Joe we talked about uh on the accessory use stuff uh we talked about attach structures and um freestanding structures I'm just thinking of a scenario supposing somebody has uh a single family home and the topography doesn't allow a freestanding structure or or an addition how does that impact their right to put an accessory use on their attic level it does it does not a uh an accessory dwelling unit within the existing building is like a third possibility there's an accessory dwelling unit a freestanding building there's an accessory dwelling unit and addition to the uh principal structure and then there's an accessory dwelling unit within the uh principal structure and they would uh under the state law they are allowed if they're they're allowed to do any of those they're allowed to what they can to do any of those so if they if their topography precludes them from being able to put on an addition or a freestanding building they can do the adct of the basement okay all right so I'm not sure if it's in our bylaw but a lot of communities when you deal let's say in an attic level the bylaws restrict how much square footage can be used independent of an Adu unit in other words right now if it wasn't an ad unit and you wanted to have occupied space in an attic are area of a on story or twostory house I think there's I know another communities they have a restriction on how much occupied space that attic can be in their zoning is it the zoning yeah I'm not sure if it's in our zoning but I've encountered it in other communities so if you if you have a two-story home and you have an attic right walk up the attic right those are usually con conducive to finishing it off they are so and usually they even bring Plumbing up there so it is possible to have a bath and no no that's not that's not my point that's not my point but you wouldn't have how would you have when you have an apartment you have to have two egresses yes right so I mean it it you know depends on the building but but the the point is a we want to make it clear an accessory use can be allowed in an attic or it can be allowed in a basement meeting all the other building code requirements okay however in other communities I've had clients that weren't doing accessory uses and wanted to finish their addicts and those communities have bylaws restricting how much of the attic can be used in fact so restrictive bylaws defining what is considered an occupied space in other words you have a many addicts have a slope roof well they defined where you determine the square footages and if the stairs included or not okay why would we do that in access to whatever the building code is like there's certain ceiling Heights that's considered well that's building I'm talking zoning by law why be more this is a town saying why would we want to be more right that's a standard that they're applying but you're not suggesting that we do that well I'm cons I'm suggesting that we have to investigate it okay because I don't personally know if we have that kind of restriction on an attic now regardless of the use okay okay I'm GNA ask that back to check with the building inspector and see what we have and we can put it at work um a work session or you know if we if we feel we can ask the building inspector if he'd like to come and sit well personally I think you could use the whole added why not right but other communities don't allow that so I don't know if we have that just out if we have it or not so users of space and sell space correct yeah well basement I think we pretty much know but um antic space if they have a pitch how do they determine the square foot that you can um you can legally use finish off well I I think if if we were going to consider it I think putting those kinds of restrictions just make it far more cumbersome okay right I don't think we want to do that no so I would say that the entire percentage the maximum they can get out of their attic space is fine okay as long as for the building code yes not not our code but the state code right not nothing to do with zoning just Public Safety well I agree with that statement um so maybe we can just fit that in somewhere but but to to determine at some point all to know is if we have a restriction on the attic space okay in in our bylaw not in the building code okay okay other than that I think maybe we could let uh Joe start driving home okay good thank you Joe thank you Joe thank you Joe uh before I drive home I wanted to um make one more Point um based on i i i attended a really good webinar and um B based on further thought about this um I don't think that we can sit back and wait for the state to put out um uh guidance and regulations or not indefinitely I think that if they haven't put something out by the end of November we got to go forward and act on our own okay okay let's we'll address that then okay good point thank you everybody night thanks good night Jessica do you wanna um finish up any other comments that you wanted to make uh sure yes so well Joe just just brought in a good point too that um eohc is is in the process of determining whether or not they actually want to issue sort of like a model bylaw or further guidance so I guess there're waiting on the the complexity of questions right now based on the latest legislation that they issued and and that will be their determining Factor on whether they issue sort of a draft bylaw for communities to use and go off of so that's what Joe is saying so if we don't have any further guidance from the state by late November that we not do anything from scratch but but start look looking at other resources to just start making her own bylaw with her own wording okay so I don't I don't see that as being that difficult actually just removing a few things to uh get us through if you will until they have the state guidelines done right and I mean we can always you know propose sort of a basic Bare Bones one for annual town meeting see how it goes for a few apartments and if you know we can work out the as we go similar to how we we work with other new bylaws too so this is not the first and only time that we could we can propose this new bylaw okay sounds good um are you also commenting on yes you are 3.4 that's me too this is the last one I promise so um yes so I hope you guys had had a good conversation with um I believe it was Katie pagee from DCR your last meeting um and it was sort of just helpful for her to give an overview of the process and better understand the town's requirements so um how I this is all new to me too so how I understand um adopting the new flood plane bylaw that she was talking about would ultimately be for our residents to remain eligible for that reduced flood insurance the national flood insurance program um so if the board wishes to keep that as an option for our residents um then we we will go through the flood plane District bylaw and make the necessary adjustments um if the board does not wish to keep that opportunity for the residents then really all we would need to do is um make some changes to the flood plane District bylaw and also the Wetland bylaw to change the reference dates on the FEMA apps from 2010 to presumably 2025 but I feel e either direction that we want to go um we can we would we would propose these new bylaw amendments at the staff level so we would not need to hire out mrpc or somebody else okay um board members I felt we didn't have a choice we had to go with the Federal in order for people to get the insurance yeah that's true so if we don't do it then we're hurting them cor know how many towns and nightes use federal Insurance blood insurance no but I can think of a few areas where they must sure sure you know any um anywhere down there but a lot of that's dict anywhere in the a lot of that's dictated by the mortgage holders true sure sure yeah sure and then anywhere you know along here sure so and then probably some in the harbor so yeah sure I would because is extremely expensive sure 10 years ago I was looking at a $22,000 bill for flood insurance this for flood insurance I had a house in was 10,000 like a it'd be neat to have a number not necessary just I don't think it's gonna as it won't affect anything that we do per se I think I mean I think we see the need to do it yeah because if we either way we have to make some changes either way and if one way helps any of our citizens in town but doesn't cost us any sure doesn't cost any us any different it just it it it behoves them okay then that's what we should be doing can just vote that now or uh yeah yeah take a motion I make a motion we adopt the federal standard for the flood plan requirements as presented by Jessica okay well so that our residents can benefit from the uh lower Insurance costs for foot Insurance that's the motion there's the second I'll second any further discussion hearing none all in favor say I I hi all in favor unanimous thanks do great no problem yeah so we'll we'll work on this um obviously as you know we have a lot of zoning byla amendments up in front of us in the next six months or so so I'll probably try to take care of this one sooner rather than later so it's just teed up ready to go for when you're ready to hold a public hearing okay all right thank you thank you and then 3.5 accessory apartment is that Robert's Wellness you looking at a different you just said a [Music] 3.5 I had paper 3.5 oh this is Robert okay okay Robert you're on um make sure he has what we have do you I yeah okay okay I I'm like trying to get into our bylaw and find out what things would impact and stuff but one of the things that I mean the things that I addressed here uh is the accessory pment stuff and um it's exactly pretty much what Jesse had said 900 square fet maximum um it doesn't require it to be attached or detached um it's a pretty open thing um the so the text that you haven't read is your addition um actually I did this with color on what the it's what was I was proposing a change oh okay just said the top part yeah the first part yeah section 145 D true purposes the purpose of the B inclement not liit to the following lesson Con conest in the street to concern health and I'm saying we should add that was in color okay okay to promote wellness and housing to promote multi-generational housing integrate housing with outdoor spaces okay and then the rest of the language that was in the bylaw okay and the purpose of this and it's it's you know it's it's a concept now that's really become apparent and particularly in the architectural profession um and also in communities uh Community Development offices um so one of the things that's been happening and it's really a developer kind of related thing they're trying to do as many units as inexpensively as possible so everything ends up in a monolithic box that's replicated many many times and those boxes are a product of how many units they can get in a site and they're a product of of cost Effectiveness in construction they don't consider Wellness in the occupants of these buildings okay so when we have a defined neighborhood that's been classified by a specific profile in some instances that's can be considered a good thing in other instances it could be considered a bad thing I'll give you a couple of examples a developer comes in and he puts 80 assisted living units in well they're designed for a specific person or prototype um but the occupant in that unit is isolated from the rest of the community and if you are it's no different than living in a nursing home because day in and day out ambulances are coming and people are dying and it does that's not mental Wellness okay so the idea is to have multigenerational profiles where you don't have everybody classified by an age or or a monetary profile or you know so uh so we suffered immensely with this in the 60s when uh they were doing the cities were doing projects and the the obvious purpose of it was to buy housing without considering the occupants in it so here I'm saying okay every developer that comes in now has to consider the occupant so in the past we just approved two uh age housing things okay and they are a product of what the developer wanted how many units he could get in there and the most efficient way to do them okay so I'm like the the topic of that dumpster was a big thing to me because the people in those units are on Walkers some are in wheelchairs okay ambulances come okay so um we don't have a bylaw that um compels these developers to think of the occupant all right they're thinking of it in the profit scenario okay and so it's a human consciousness here about the people living in these buildings and some of the things that we can do is say give them an outdoor space okay when you have multi-density people together and they're on top of there's no ouch and everybody's trapped in a box and there's a hallway between you uh let me go outside and go on my balcony and let some steam off in other words making that a prerequisite um and so if um single mom's uh has to live in a third floor unit um she can take her baby and put it on the deck you do what I mean there's a personal private space that's Outdoors access through the outdoors and and things like that so I'm trying this Wellness stuff is compelling in a in a review process not just how many units can be put in the thing but here in this community of townzen um promoting multi-generational occupancy in a in a specific area of town is a healthy thing um and promoting a variety of unit types Okay so this isn't necessarily cost effective for a developer but it certainly makes a human impact on the people and how happy they are so when you for example if we just built a a four-story building and it was a corridor that was just banked with box apartments on each side okay the cultures the different cultures that would live in this building are different and we have people from from people and we have you know people from Germany or whatever all in a common building all right and so the social cultures are not compatible so when you give them their own outdoor space it gives them an opportunity to not be directly involved with their neighbor you know what I mean so okay if I if I can just say something so like a little summary your verbiage to me is fine okay to to include um the idea of promoting wellness and the integration generational integration um I I can't and I think we it it can be in the bylaw and it can be something that the that the planning board addresses with somebody in their review I do not see man I I don't even see how we can do this but mandating I I I like the idea of putting it in their mind that this is what we're looking for and I can tell you that mainly this would only come into play in let's say the overlay District okay at this point for a bylaw for the overlay District Because unless going to have um like a couple of two families and then maybe one apartment building which isn't going to be four stories and um maybe some tiny homes that is a lot of diversity in in one area and that's what you're talking about when you have that you're going to have enough land space to do this when you have enough land space to do this because we're still septic that's not going to change no matter where in town or what district you're in septic in town is not going to change you're not going to have public seore here we're not talking about septic at all it's related no it's related what how for how much land you're going to need to to utilize these different types of homes you're thinking of a specific building profile okay that's not true I didn't what did I just say I said single family tiny homes um townhouse condos an apartment all of them in the same district all of them on the on the same lot you're integrating everyone my point is because we have septic systems you are going to have plenty of open space you're going to have plenty of areas for them to have their picnic table and for them to go outside and blow off steam you're not going to have balconies I can tell you that the point is we just look at the last one we just passed here okay yeah all right thaty deck huh they have outside space yes they do have outside space okay but does it work for the occupant in that building no somebody who isn't going to like it isn't going to buy it what what would you what would you deter what would be different what would you do different to those buildings no I I just want them I want these kind of policies I right here we are we're sitting in Townson we make bold statements we're aarm Community where a such and such Community that's what I'm trying to do here make the a Health Community right so in other words we don't have to have specific rules and requirements we have to ask for performance okay show us how you've achieved that any of these things in your planning okay so is there a play area if you're going to have them all together are you going to do an El barbecue pit or or something to encourage that neighborhood and give those people opportunities to gather themselves meet one another not be isolated in a box okay so the so there will be space for them to do that are they going to provide the fire pit I don't know but we're not telling they have to we want to see where they've done that show us what you've done for the occupants in these buildings that's all was saying I'm not making requirements that everyone has to have so many square feet or anything like that okay then then your verbiage works then I say we I mean in my opinion uh Patrick any I mean we're going to ask is for a developer to show how he's promoting or she's promoting wellness and housing and multigen housing where it's not a c citizen 55 they come in with a plan here okay so and if you don't see that you ask the question right I just feel like it may be very subjective right so let's pretend that that it that um was it like a two or four family lot that just came through a couple weeks ago let's pretend that wording was there and he brought that plan forward are you going to send it back because the dumpster is F Fe away from the house we already had the discussion there was discussion at this table about that and um well for example in that last one I picked up his finished Flo height on that site plan okay and that's for elderly people so that means nobody thought about that and if we if I hadn't caught it it wouldn't you're worri about that and that's why I always let you look at the plans everybody has their talent anyway so they have an obligation here you know because they're coming and asking us for relief or to approve something okay and I don't have a problem with it and it's not necessarily it's not necessarily a cost burden to them what it is to get them thinking about the people that are going to be in there that's what I so they go to their Architects and that architect includes that in the design initi you know what I mean um just to label it what what we have is buildings that have a label on them but not designed for them so just to make sure I'm clear the two pages that we have that are your suggestions is the only thing that you've proposed to change is thep statement well my purpose is is bringing this up for discussion and to explain what I was trying to concept you're just looking to add to the purpose statement to say to include Wellness like it Joe did we already includeed promoting multi-generational housing but I think that should be in all multifam housing okay we're having the big discussion on adding those words to the mission State yeah the purpose I have no issue with that right that's that's fine and we've already done it and another another bylaw that we went over uh I added that too the same verbiage Wellness yeah I think it was when we were doing Scenic roads and stuff there was another bylaw I added that yeah we did we did add Wellness to another I forget which one but we not this whole thing not not this verbatim well I I went specifically Wellness found that chapter section and given how it's already changed or Joe already had it changed I think we might have you might have to retool Tool it a little bit no because it really wasn't it was just a word put in it didn't have a it didn't have the language about the wellness and the concept the purpose um so can you make sure that that's done specifically again yeah specifically to promote wellness and housing to promote multi-generational housing integrate housing with outdoor spaces quote unquote and um that is in section 45-2 purposes the defition it's in the company that you have yeah so just that section and do I have a motion for that please that am to the because that's the only section that we're I I made a bunch of Toms in in the document I left in the document I'm the guest oh cool all right in the next section I'm not seeing that it's it's in indidual document we asking so I went in and hit new comment is that not How We Do It okay yeah uh so you did it in red do you want to read it no I didn't I didn't do it in red but um Robert didn't right I did just re hit the review Tab and you hit new comment after you highlight a section like here oh yeah on the right so so Robert said Adit in its entirety the affordable accessory apartment and then it's the red paragraph paragraph the affordable accessory apartment so my comment to that was why why would we remove that paragraph why would we remove it the part that I asked to be removed was the affordability component of it oh yeah that was gone why would we remove that oh because um prior to the state coming in now it used to in order to get a accessory use permit you had to plead a hardship it was a family it was a special permission to a family to help them with some scenario okay and then what happened here what happened to us P I got it got he understands okay okay uh was on page two at the bottom there was I think this is the wording as it exists I didn't read the original bylaw but 139 okay uh second last paragraph on page two says in private access to an outdoor space of significant size so I highlighted the word significant like I think it's subjective what ises what does that mean like I have a 12 x 12 deck and that's enough um you can put couches all the way around but you can't put a table in the middle because there's no room to walk so what what's what's significant I don't know like so um it's subjective yeah okay um I don't I wouldn't specify but um it says each dwelling well access to an upor what did I write here [Music] so I don't know uh do do we need to specify what significant is 100 square feet of seating area I I wouldn't I wouldn't specify well I mean everything would every I think every situation would be different yeah right but if you're doing a review okay and we have a group of people dining so if you're sitting and dining should be enough people have dining room know I know I know we have a okay but you don't but I'm picturing couches or chase lounges plus dining you 10 by 10 might not be big enough to do got a half acre you have have to understand they have a lot of resources there okay they have outdoor projected spaces like a deck or a porch okay they have rooftops and they have the physical ground so there's absolutely no reason that they can't find an accommodation there all right I agree all right so that's how that's how 1392 reads today right that's what this word document has right okay yes most of my comments were just like questions just understand where you're coming from or where this came from um I thought the wording in 1394 was kind of funny but that's how it exists today so which one two or three 1394 uh purpose and intent it says it is in the best interest of the community to provide for housing that mean that is Affordable to specific Community right so I was trying to get that so related to mean values of the local real estate okay because we we we just did affordable here and there's nobody in town that can afford that so the idea is we want to preserve housing for our own town people and for our own fire department our own police department and you know the people that are living and working here um not have it tied to what a medium price is in Cambridge you your 139 is new huh your 139 section 139 is all new yeah entitled wellness and mul this is me preparing something okay so but the point is I'm I'm a I want in other words there's me you we I get a a news thing every two weeks about the real estate in towns and okay how many time what that mean prices and how long it's on the market and all that stuff so locally lenberg Townsen has a mean price that you can reference on a specific year okay um right now that affordable right now so if we just designated an affordable complex here um did Adult Community thing wasn't that affordable um are we redefining what affordable means here or are we going by the h definition the one of the problems we have is the legal definition by the state of affordable is tied tie a medium house price in your county okay I think we're going a little off topic and I'm gonna bring you back to something about affordable the state required us to be at 10% affordable we have been as high as almost 6 point something per in my tenure in this town a comment was made when uh Veronica was on at our last meeting about how nothing's been done here in 50 years that was affordable that's not true so I'm going to bring us back to what we have done the first affordable counting of the units was Atwood acres and at Atwood Acres was 50 units counted towards that affordable that the state wanted us to have mainly because it was a HUD project HUD 202 whatever it was then it took us and I don't I wasn't on Housing Authority then but then I got on Housing Authority Kathy aruo was our admin and for it took us seven years three tries to get HUD 202 funding we got the last funding available in the state took us seven years to construct that building 36 units were added for senior housing the first building was affordable in that it could be it was not age restricted the second there was dis ility or whatever uh affordable housing the second building the 36 was senior housing only also affordable as that was happening we got Turnpike Village remembering this but uh Benjamin Builders built turni Village another that took almost 10 years and another 40 41 units I think were counted and that brought us up to the 6 point something Copperfield or whatever that's called off of Highland Street another project took seven years to build it is mixture of affordable units and higher priced single family dwellings that was completed but all the affordables there was four or six I think only four got built in the meantime they all got sold affordable originally but then it's so restrictive when you go to selling it affordably we lost them we lost the count of them so and those have all been in recent years and it takes years and years to have that work the accessory Apartments we had somebody on road that wanted to make his unit affordable by state guidelines you had to use a lottery system went which was the case housing which was the case for all the other complexes to uh towns and woods the 36 units that were senior were lottery I believe turnike Village had to go Lottery because they wanted to go affordable by the state so all this has been done but it's not easy that was one of the reasons well Adu coming in by right we could get rid of the verbiage of affordable because it's a process that costs for one unit 15 to $225,000 to run the lottery it is not effective doesn't work so the latest and what Veronica is trying to do and I understand her thinking in this is to try to get and this is going to take an act of Congress is to try to get towns in in the low District which is M well the medium prices lower are lower than they are here in Townsen because we are middle sex South County so Cambridge impact our median price here whereas if you're in lemonster or Fitchburg that's Worster County right and it's way lower there so that's how that's where we are today so what it actually ends up doing the way it is now is attracting people from Cambridge here and not helping our people here so so she's G to try to change that but she has to go through legislator to do that you know through the state to get a change the other thing I'll say Patrick because we had some rental properties but even if we rent a property at what would be an affordable rate it just doesn't count because it didn't go through the lottery didn't go through the lottery and to have it so like there could be prices are affordable yeah the towns may have 10% affordable rental prices yeah May completely may have more but by virtue of the state's definitions and requ counted yeah they don't count and for the there's zero incentive I would think for us as a homeowner or rental owner to right wish to pay for that to it's not cost effective yeah we tried to get pineridge and Country Estates included in the affordable C because they were affordable okay and that's where people could afford to live so there are people who can't afford to live in towns and because that's where they can afford to live but because it wasn't constructed per the HUD guidelines affordably from day one they couldn't count so but you're talking about like aund 202 units between the two comp so they mandate this and then they handcuff you so you can't deliver it and it's misleading like you you may have it like you may be affordable like you may need to do some things to move the needle that are a lot smaller but you think you're in a way different place than you may actually you just don't really know where you are right so to get back to Robert um on your I see what you're trying to do with the wellness section 139.18795 139 is not part of the multi it is not so but he'd like to add it so we can look at it section you can tweak you can tweak it Robert and come back with some more sub substance on this at the next meeting yeah I I just want to get it on the table so we can start talking about but see I'm I'm introducing a new section here and I don't know how to I don't know what is I don't know what chapter 39 I was reading he made it up oh okay okay it's new and it's for wellness so I'm going to say everybody Che on it and we'll have it on uh our work session agenda next time okay I want to give that back no action on that right no action on that right now except um I think we're all in favor of the purpose which is an addition [Music] the purpose is in 145 D2 it's the first one and then he goes um on with the Omission which we did okay and then the other so I would suggest we read the rest of that yeah but we agreed with the purpose I don't know we did have a vote on that actually yes we did we did we did and the vote was to move that to add those words as an amendment to the purpose into the purpose move ahead with the amendment process then yeah okay any particular timeline no we we'll chew on this a little bit more I think as we get closer to um all the other bylaw changes that we're going to do that's something that we can include at that time okay I I would not miss the opportunity to do it when we were doing the rest okay okay all right uh 4.1 do you have anything yes I do I think it was quite a few thanks for the summary that I presume you did that that's cool that's efficient all right um notice of decision for the town of town in board of appeals granted an accessory apartment at three Ryan Road um this is one we've already talked about uh but this is a notice of public hearing for the zoning board of appeals regarding 324 Main Street the gas station convenience store office space coffee shop with drive-thru what's the date on that I think October 23rd you said correct is that tomorrow that's today October oh oh October 23rd yes at 645 um in towns and another the final towns and notice U public hearing for the planning board applicant proposing the construction of three residential duplex buildings consisting of a total of six age restricted residential units proposed SC scope of work includes paved driveway drainage system utility connections and their uh we did that eper intense close um we did that one toot Road Extension October 21st 2024 one Depot Road one Depot Road no sounded like the other one okay yeah yeah Ashby notice of decision the planning board granted a special permit for a dog kennel lunenberg notice of public hearing the planning board site plan approval for a change of use to a retail establishment that is September 23rd at 6:05 p.m so we missed it notice a public hearing planning board proposed um alterations to the code of the town of lunenberg amend zoning definitions to update with accessory dwelling unit amend to edit accessory dwelling regarding criteria applicable to accessory dwellings delineate accessory dwelling units by special permit from accessory dwelling units by right amend zoning dimensional regulations setbacks and yards regarding accessory dwelling units in Residence a b and outlying districts amend use tablet to reflect the difference between accessory dwelling units by right ande accessory dwelling units by special permit that was also tonight 923 at 6:05 p.m. and then a notice of public hearing for the lunberg planning board U proposed alterations to the code of the town of lunenberg regarding zoning use regulations water supply prot Protection District by adding Provisions including clarified definitions expand Ed prohibited uses and a section specifying uses and activities requiring a special permit which there's more which includes construction of new treatment work and related structures within Zone one uh that was also tonight we have two more for the town of lunenberg a notice of decision planning board approved a site plan approval and storm water management permit for a 6,000 foot steel industrial building associated with a contractor's yard at 236 240 and 244 Summer Street and then notice of decision from their planning board they granted a special permit for a freestanding sign um sign three located at three Lancaster app um peil there two notices notice of public hearing special permit application to convert a single family home into a two family that is October 7th at 6:30 pm and then notice of public hearing a special permit application to allow the reduction of the minimum yard setback such that the subject property can be separated into two lots uh town of Shirley notice of decision planning board approval of site plan review and storm water management permit for 182 to 188 crate Road for construction of public storage facility notice of decision the zoning board approval of a variance to 10 Valley View Way Rel relating to the minimum yard setback of 17 ft allowing construction to be within 8 ft of the sideline notice the final one notice of public hearing zoning board of appeals application for a special permit to construct an accessory building in the front of the property thank you um the rest is uh just notices of the Education and Training that's available State ethics one 52 citizen planner training collaborative um and then planning board member resource Library our next meetings are October 7th and October 21st do we have hearings scheduled for yes but not the seventh okay um is there a possibility that we don't have to meet would me now we going on I don't know all right so at this point in time we are meeting on October 7th the 2 21st okay so is there anything else to come before us I just want to bring one news thing that's coming that we're going to be dealing with um Governor Healey's office and advocating more housing has got an executive order all the language is not done but um lots that were declared unbuildable by other standards are now going to be allowed to be buildable how that's going to happen I don't know but that's coming up well Governor Healey is used to Boston and Cambridge and very small Lots they have public water public sore so they can enact whatever they want to enact but if our Board of Health isn't going to approve it it's not going to be approved well it has to work right yeah because otherwise how do you miraculously make them build the I don't know but this is what's I'm just telling what's com down the information yeah October 7th I'm going to be in New Mexico I can try to attend but I'm not sure oh but I'll take that into consideration we'll see we'll see what comes iner going to Albuquerque the Mountain San traway y I went at the traway oh did you yes I did we doing wedding planning oh really okay yeah I did the traway up the side yeah and I don't like tight very nice nice yeah Patrick you're on notice a b right now oh yeah even though I don't like [Music] heights I make sure was pressed against the way back oh yeah motion to motion to all those in favor I hi thanks heartley