##VIDEO ID:pl6Faxsat7U## okay good evening everyone my name is Laura Shian and I'm calling the meeting to order of the planning board of October 21st 2024 at 6:33 p.m. um we have no one [Music] online I would like to did that um let's do the Pledge of Allegiance no I sorry everybody I don't have to be perfect all the time it's too much pressure for me now um okay uh roll call please Carol hops is present oraryan present and laip and present I'll tell you that Lance male um Patrick and Andrew have been excused um and please join me in the pledge of allegiance to of the United States of America to for which it stands one nation God indivisible withy andice for all and I want to thank all of our veterans as well as our military and First Responders that are serving us today and we know that many of them have been busy today alone um the meeting is being recorded and will be uploaded to the town of towns in YouTube channel under 1.4 Chairman's Edition I or deletions I am asking to add 3.3 for a volunteer response form that we have received and 3.4 uh work order from graves I I'll explain that then any objections okay thank you next one approval discussion of the draft of October 7th 2024 minutes um I'll make a motion to approve the um October 7 2024 meeting minutes I second that okay any discussion were there any changes dels no okay um have a vote ter hoses yes Rob Teran yes CH yes thank you very much one point six um that service [Music] report for applications and anticipated applications um War Street Extension uh the hearing is tonight 18 Rain Street uh application for site plan review special permit and storm water management permit the hearing is November 4th um uh the board I have gotten U Got a cost estimate for the peer review of the storm water management application and if the board wishes I Can Begin setting up the 503g account this week that good please 249 Main Street application for site plan review special permit the hearing is scheduled for November 4th um the West Meadow Road storm water management uh certificate of comption filing uh has uh the St we still scheduling staff inspections the asilt and monthly inspection reports have been received photos from the field are in the folder um I prefer that we get a 1in rent to evaluate the system a storm for the RS but we haven't had one so this will be also up for your consideration on November 4th okay approval of that 27 scales Lane the certificate of completion is complete yay completion complete 22 Main Street planning board application for modification of the special permit has been received in the hearing is scheduled for November 4th 28 pburg Road still waiting for the permit holder to record the operation and maintenance plan um for 108 so for site visits and compliance cell Farm is still um under H construction so those certificate of compliance is ongoing all permits are in compliance with the sm8 construction phase inspection reports except for 66 b Hill and five turn bik um uh unfortunate news Jess Jessica consalvo our land use coordinator will be stepping down from her position next week her presence has been a delight and she has offered invaluable guidance to both the town and the land use staff throughout her tenure Jessica has achieved numerous significant accomplishments and she will be greatly missed the new flood plan maps in the Nashville wed is ongoing we are working on the wood plane District bylaw and the master plan implementation is ongoing uh hmp MVD implementation is ongoing accessory Department bylaw and state law compliance also ongoing we're waiting for the grant planning Grant um as well as the draft non discretionary site plan review bylaw again that's the planning assistance granted well MTA um the MF the multi overlay District bylaw and supporting documentation was received for pre-adoption pre-adoption review by the executive office of liable communities so that's been received and acknowledged as complete well I think the turnaround for that would be hopefully like within a month or two you know so that would be well before town meeting um planning board SharePoint resource folder uh is our resource Library including information for new members updated information for vetan members and joh in Pittburgh M sh is still running on demand service online that's it words call ahead okay thank you um let's see we have a public so I have to wait until 45 to call that work session [Music] 3.1 I go to the two additions first I think we can probably do those so 3.3 iste yeah so currently [Music] youte get one yeah it a the top right hey are we in trouble that's you see anything that says 3.3 I don't see anything but that's okay go ahead okay you can just read so we have a uh volunteer respon form from Robert and I'm going to spell his last name unless I say juel juel okay lives on 19 South Row Road in johon and his occupation is architect um public construction manager retired he has available 20 hours a week or 80 hours a month background experience is registered architect public construction 40 years experience and he has applied we currently do not have an opening but he has applied to Planning and Zoning zoning has an opening has a couple of openings I think one full member and three asso opening so that will be right so they really do need him you know at this point but but that's wonderful that that has come in and that came in on the 10th he's well suited for both [Music] board okay so then 34 is from graves engineering dated october8 to the town of towns in on the subject is oh Harbor Village Mall Starbucks nature storm water permit review okay so the reason for that is just to share with the board that I got the cost of work order and get authorization to go ahead and get contracted and okay okay and the to suggested initial budget for the work to be done is $1,800 okay so this is for our information only and did you guys have this one well may I anyway so that's fine and so otherw okay okay that's on spare box at where going into the the right we knew that we knew that last meeting okaying on coming up okay we are at get this open the public hearing 645 PM for one Depot Street Extension um applications one a restricted development two s red special permit three minor storm water management permit opening and hearing so the board please introduce yourselves Carol hop is present AR there in present and from present having said that we have three of five members here so the future of this and the other meetings we need to make sure that one the other members of The Board review the video and state that they have reviewed it in order to participate in the vote and we need a vote of all for the special permits right or a majority of or all but they have have had reviewed all of the okay so in accordance with Mass General Law chapter 4911 and code of town of towns zoning bylaws 14542 s cie special permit 14565 special permits and 145 5418 prescripted development towns and general bylaw chapter 85 n pdes Phase 2 storm water management and chapter 175 Article 5 storm water regulations the planning board will hold a public hearing on Monday October 21st 2024 at 6:45 p.m. in the selman's chambers at Memorial Hall 72 main street and Via Zoom online is online to review an application received from Kevin Smith and Ken Tully requesting a site plan review age restricted Development Special permit and a storm water management permit the applicant is proposing the construction of three residential duplex buildings consisting of six age restricted res itial units the proposed scope of work will include a pav access driveway drainage systems utility Mach and their oper that thank you that very well too the property is located at one Depot Road Extension identified assessor map 51 block 56 lot 0 and is in the ra zoning District interested parties can express their support or opposition during the hearing or submit written comments beforehand copies of the application are available for review at Town Hall during regular business hours or by requesting digital copy of the application by email planning board law e chair published in the Sentinel Enterprise October 1st and October 8th letters have been letters applicants and all the town departments were notified so that you had the sign in sheet those that are here notice okay um Kevin this is where I'm going to give you an going to need to present um well I can present a letter this even okay requesting asking for a continuance of this hearing based on planning board members the reason for this letter is ask board to continue our hearing for proposed project until we have finding by the Zoning for should be within the next few weeks okay so do noted and looking I did look at the calendar and we meet on the 4th but zoning meets on the 6 so um as we get further on towards the end I think we can first recommend November 18th that's our next meeting after the zoning okay um so I think I will well the board you can review the plans that we have received and if you have any questions of the applicant you can bring that up now we can do that for about 15 minutes and then I will go into the mandatory referrals was there a point in time that you wanted to speak I'm really only here the has questions about the application I know that there were some questions asked of me when the application was received just relative to whether it qualified under the vi to seek the special permit that's being sought okay and provided some advice I think as a consequence of that advice that's whatp application the zoning board of appeals for the variant I'm happy to provide more information in that regard or not depend on how much you want tonight um I do have another commitment that is tentative on the 18th so I'm not certain that I can be at your next full meeting on the 18th I'll add it into my calendar and if my T commitment drops off I'll I'll attend again but if you do have questions tonight concerning the application I'm here and happy to answer okay thank you you can start okay um just on the this is the storm water management um application anyways down in it says the project proposes one 16 foot access driveway at Elm Street but I don't see Elm Street on your Maps here it shows the driveway on the Depot Road extender correct type all there I don't have any of information I had copies of nothing because I simply came with a letter okay contining so I wasn't sure that any discussion would take place so I have so anything that we're discussing tonight is going to be given to you so in other words their questions will be given to you just like the um which is why I want to read the um mandatory referrals into the record so that you can then get a copy of them okay any issues that are being brought up you may want to address the next time you see us okay um which will be after zoning you don't have to write down question okay you have a question no that was the question was obviously I was write that down to make sure okay it says I mean it's not a big deal but it says Street okay so anything else well I guess maybe for the attorney because you said I know we've mentioned the uh the flood maps of 2010 yeah but if the but if the flood maps become and this is more for the attorney if the flood maps become available like December January and he hasn't started Construction does he have to go by the new flood plan um Maps if if they affected property they may not even affect for purposes of the storm water bylaw yeah um I I have to look but I think your storm water bylaw ref references the current the FEA maps that are currently in effect so even once the new maps are adopted at the federal level you need to amend your bylaw if you expect Al to operate Pur Su in the new um even if your said as amended from time to time and you could read that as incorporating future Maps if the out has received a permit and has that permit in hand then they play by the rules that existed at the time of the permit issue good thank you okay I'm sure your engineer is going to know that because right now he can only list what is legally in effect so that's why that's yeah so brought up okay and I think that's all I have that's all you have um the applicant is requesting three different waivers here one from the minimum land area requirement two a waiver being requested to allow the proposed maximum density to be 4.5 5 acres per unit and the third waiver is um requested for a 30 foot property line offset to the buildings so these are um what waivers would be required here to be provided for this project um so looking at the site plan um I see that the duplex unit five and six um really encumbers quite a bit half the distance of the setback requirement uh so that would have to be a relief um and then I don't understand how they arrived with 23 spaces for parking you mind if I step up to the table I didn't bring any Cofe with right I understand no whatever here a larger set I guess so it says here let's just pull this one up so we can see what we got going on here to do six units 12 spaces would be required for the units proper and then two one space for every three units so that would mean a minimum of 14 spaces yeah and they provide 12 spaces one garage and one driveway six spaces in the driveway how do you accommodate six spaces in the driveway I assume they were two car wide driveways um and then five spaces for visitors I'm not showing it I'm not showing it here we got to make a correction to the plan your plan is showing it this one's oh that must be an older version it is okay must well the date on that one this is dated uh [Music] 814 um anyway I I don't I question that six PES in the driveway how that's being [Music] delivered I don't I don't see how that's being delivered there's parking here one 2 three four five that's the visitor parking okay then you got two in each unit okay so that's 12 and five 17 17 only 14 was required I think we put the extras in so we'd have so we make sure we had plenty well anyway I don't know how that's arrived so that probably should be taken out um why you can't have the extra places in case you have the need for an extra well you need to show where they are I mean they're there aren't they no what do you got two four 6 8 10 12 and five right there 1 17 right so the required spaces was 14 so you've achieved that already with the 17 we said we provided 17 they should have put in there 17 provided they said 23 right oh they got 23 yeah oh no wonder that's what he's asking I'm like where do they where you okay something there's something else got 12 six and five which is 23 so something here is wrong um because these the drive eight doesn't show so that should be crossed out the six faes that one should come out then right okay but they should be able to have those seven should be 12 for the units okay so that six six spaces where it says driveway parentheses should come out right the N least 17 five guests in 12 yes 12 the two required they they meet the requirements without that but it just needs to be fixed on the plan number ofes okay um the 17 is fine it just has to show them it's written wrong on the plan well it should have so it should have said 14 required 17 provided and that's that's all it needed to show and they didn't have it in there okay 17 total so my other comment is that U you know the zoning regulations are pretty forthright regarding the amount of acreage the minimum required in our bylaw um so on what premise do you think that this board should consider increasing that well you've got a situation where the land mass area in the center of town you don't have any pieces like that anymore they're all quarter acre lots half acre lots you're getting down in the geographic if you draw a geographic circle around the center and you just keep working out and out you got to go a long ways for before you can find a piece of property that will fit those needs and still be within the requirements of um the original the the way the original article was written have walking distance to the town Services walking distance to the public safety walking distance to the town Comm and and you know that piece of land does fit the perimeter granted it does it's going to require a probably a variance before it's done we I'm not quite sure yet until it goes before the zoning board how they'll see it but but uh there's an acre there right acre and a half acre and a half well um the point being you know as far as the offset the offset you know that's uh the offset to the property line is 30 30 required in that it was residential would be 15 right on the sideline your Sidelines that there well yeah the point being is the zoning was established for this part of town um and that's why he seeking a special permit um however the bylaw which was approved by Town vote says a minimum required so I don't see where the benefit to the community is um and so we're asking you about that um um and then the site itself could accommodate four units without any waivers um I don't believe that to be the case well yeah I just took that one out I got four does he still need the two waers I don't know because doesn't age restricted I think it was eight wasn't it six per per eight I think as it was [Music] I four units per acre this is this is the this is the reason why I was contacted initially by the land use coordinator so you read off the list of the three waivers that have been requested by the applicant for this proposal there is no such thing as a waiver under a zoning ordinance Revival waivers are issued under subdivision control I your board's aware of that because you frequently review in group subdivisions and waivers are a component of the subdivision control that referen statute it referenc in your board subdivision rules and regulations there's actually a standard in statute under subdivision control for granting waiver if it's in the public interest and if it's consistent with the purpose and intent of subdivision control law there's no equivalent provision in the zoning act so when you're acting not as a special permit not as a as a subdivision approval Authority but rather as a special permit granting Authority in under your zoning bylaw you have no authority to Grant waiver unless the bylaw specifically incorporates the concept of a waiver some bylaw Provisions do uh you see this very often in newer bylaws for things like solar systems uh for things like um marijuana cultivation or retailers there are often Provisions that allow for waivers to give some flexibility with those those sorts of unique uses but there's no General provision in the state zoning act for waivers in fact a waiver in the context of zoning law is actually known as a variance and I'm sorry really hard to hear VAR a waiver under the zoning Act is a variance variance is issue by the zoning board of appeals so here you have the age restricted development bylaw um I know you're familiar with it I'm familiar with it because I reved at the time you adopted and I think you w't inv at the time Lori back seven years six seven years ago yeah um oh yeah so that was adopted there was actually an effort and I know that you were involved in this l maybe years later there was an effort to amlaw to reduce the AC reement from two acres down to one corre and to and to incorporate a a waiver a generic waiver provision in there we actually went so far as to schedule in this room a public hearing on that topic and ultimately it didn't go any further than that it was dropped it was postco yeah po but it yeah it never never it never got made it to town meeting it was withdrawn never made it to a warant so I say all this because when I look at the warrants that the the waivers that have been requested here waiver one is a waiver from the 2 acre requirement that's in the bylaw you have no authority to wave that two acre waiver number two is a waiver from the density standard you have no authority to wave that density standard that Authority doesn't exist in the BW today the third one the setbacks the 20 foot setbacks you do have the authority to weigh that because the way that the language of the bylaw reads it says that it shall be the setback shall be 20 feet excuse me 30 feet quote unless the planning board determines that A reduced setback is necessary to achieve the purposes of this section and will not have a detrimental impact on the neighborhood so you have the authority because the language gives you that authority to to vary that 30 foot setback and reduce it to zero if you wanted to or something less than 30 because the bylaw gives you that Authority so when Jess cons solo reached out to me several weeks ago when this application was received and said what do we do about these I issued an email with an opinion that said there's no authority to Grant those first two waivers so if the applicant wants to seek a a waiver for lack of a better term a variance really from those requirements the app has to go to the Z which is where we to go first when you open the hearing I ask for continuance yeah that's okay that's okay you can run the twoes but so so bottom line is this board even if this board were to issue site plan approval which can you would still be subject to the zoning board issuing um variances for both the density and for the minimum lot size requirement even if they issue those variances you're still not obligated to Grant S plan approval it's up to you because you withold you you have special permit granting Authority Under the restricted development bylaw to determine whether the whole project is in the in the best interest of the community and is consistent with the purpose and attent uh meant to be achieved by the bylaw so that's discretionary that's up to you but in terms of those minimum acreage requirements and density standards that's up to the zoning board of appeals at this stage and and I think we're good with that and so you know I've well I've been on here for eight years so yes the whole point of our work during that time for bylaw changes was to make it easier to build age restricted homes and and to have them hopefully F be on smaller lots and I've always said my standard statement if the bard of Health allows it it doesn't matter how big the lot is this is my opinion if we have Town water which that has Town water okay it fills a lot of the needs if you will there aren't many places as he stated to Robert that you can build and still have something that can walk over to the plaza that can walk to the post office that can can't use the word walk but they could roll themselves there you know um it would be okay for somebody who was older and still wanted to participate in all the things that were going on yeah and aging in place units so of course um and that comes from my Housing Authority background too to do affordable housing they will count towards the affordable housing units so there's a lot of will they come towards affordable housing units I think they will because they're going to be rented right no Oh I thought you weren't are you going to sell them we decided we going to sell them yeah okay we have no bearing on whether they go against a affordable housing stock I would imagine they would because of the price point for them right okay that's different that's different standpoint hat that I don't wear anymore but I would think that that would go against the housing stock short i' will it's not based on price point it's based on household size and area Medi income so unless there and there has to be an affordability restriction on them if they're going to count on the Shi so there's if if there affordable units that qualifies as affordable because they're de restricted within the development then those units themselves would count the project whole count right which is why I turn so I think um the whole point is laws are made to be changed and what makes Common Sense what makes common sense for our community what is it that we're trying to to achieve or finally achieve which we see takes years to do so do do you have another question well um just observing what's being proposed um a it seems like this five units would be achievable rather than six four units would be achievable on the same site rather than six um then potentially six units or more uh depending on the building configuration nobody's saying that all has to be on one level um so I see there's other options that could have been done to deliver this um aged housing project this one here is someone's concept of what they might configure it to be um so the point here is not opposition against age restricted housing um or any kind of housing the point here is of this particular profile um is not what the original tent of our bylaw was particularly where there maybe other options that could have been explored and um that's my perspective of this um so I mean I'm not the only one making the decision here but I think in terms of the applicant um the applicant might want to consider other Alternatives um so um and if if that could be achieved without the variances and the waivers required then then everybody will be happy I'm sorry yeah the variances he has to get the Varan Varan so zoning comes first but the comments were good Robert and I I appreciate your thoughts and we'll be in the record and I mean I like maybe there's a townhouse scenario that would work better or you know what I mean who wants stairs when they're older he's trying to be Aging in place I'm trying to be an aging in place thing all on one level Ada Ada in front Ada all the back trying trying to I understand it's a feasibility question and that needs you know you as a developer have to uh review all those options um um so I I don't know what to suggest than what I did already okay um let me go on to the um referrals okay from the assessor's office we support this project it will will increase increase tax revenue without our without taxing the schools okay from the Board of Health in regards to the special permit for one Depot Street Extension math 51 parcel 56 the Board of Health offers the following comments a septic system must be designed approved and installed that is compliance with 310 CMR 15 and the towns and Board of Health regulations two the property is proposed to be served by Town water should you have any questions feel free miss my my answer the board of house says yes it's okay uh Building Commissioner storm water management permit application materials um to Dear gentlemen you recently applied for approval of age restricted development at one Depot Street Extension parcel 5156 here referred to as the property after review of the data available to me and the town zoning bylaws here in referred to as CBA TBS I have come to the following determinations finding that your application notes of the property this will be located on is 1.4 acres in area argument section 15451 54-1 DB1 point a of the age restricted development section in the TCB States two or more acres of land as criteria for the track of land required for this type of development conclusion this property does not meet the minimum requirement for area as set forth in the zoning bylaw for age restricted development this letter does this letter does it guarantee I'm reading the words that are here approval I not sure what he meant but approval from the planning board this letter only pertains to zoning as referenced other approvals from other boards committees departments may be required whoever is agreed by a zoning interpretation order requirement direction or failure to act by building commissioner May file a notice of appeal to the to be heard of the zoning board of appeals within 30 days of receip of this letter and this letter was dated October 1st read you read well he he he States it on the other side this land does not meet the two AC requirement for yeah it's on the other side reading into the record too no I did now twice okay um Conservation Commission um is there a comment from conservation no oh okay no comment Highway Department applicant will need to obtain a driveway permit through Highway [Music] Department ly coordinator in my professional opinion and understanding of the Ard zoning bylaw two of the three waivers requested lot acreage minimum and unit density are not allowable unfortunately I do not believe this application can be approved under the current bylaws bard of selectman Border selectman agreed to leave it to the planning board to be decided water department each unit must have its own 1 in service plastic in a 2in sleeve okay I think that's it is that is that right that's my pile of okay [Music] still were there any other um correspondence received from a Butters or concerned citizens um for discussion of technical peer review for minor storm water management permit application for planning board regulation 17526 employment of outside consultant um we can wait if I wait until after Zing I think before we that um right yes okay um there's no public here so there's no unless Kevin do you have any questions um there's nobody else here to speak supporter opposition did you have any other the comments I don't okay I thank you for the ones that you did make only a reminder that between now and whatever continuent that you choose the members who were absent tonight should review the trans sign their M form so that they're eligible to vote and I did state that when we started so it's part of the minutes already I opened with that actually um so I will entertain a motion to continue this hearing until do we have a anything booked on the 18th yet of November then um I would do the same 6:45 okay what dat November 18 what time is your appointment already um um it's not really going to matter because it's a it's a second night of a special town meeting you know how those go it's as needed second night so the first night I'll be available if it goes the second night I'll be the whole okay that's but I'll put it in my book and presuming that I'm available I'll to be here okay if anything comes up after zoning that we have questions on uh that or I will get a hold of you okay um okay so the motion is to continue until November 18th at 6:45 p.m. okay I'll make a motion to continue the um one Depot Street Extension hearing to 18 November at 6:45 p.m is there a second I second okay any further discussion hearing none vote please Carol H yes Robert Daren yes and mo Shi yes thank you very much both of you for attending you to wasn't that [Music] bad good we got a lot of the way um so next up 2.1 discuss project proposal migration of multi- segmented Townson official zoning maps codified in code of the town of towns to a one single official inclusive towns and zoning map is that under approve there well it isn't that we're looking for approval land use office would like your approval of that project right now if you look in the code book all of the U districts are separate sheets of paper and they're all9 yeah I read I I did read that whole thing and I was like yes do do whatever you to do yes so mrpc okay that was like what was coming out of my mouth mrpc yeah we hopefully help us migrate everything into one Collective map and that would be uh and the planning boards role with then be to hold a public hearing because it would be an amendment to the zoning bylaw to admit the map and repeal the old map okay so that would be the role and then you know bring it to town meeting and yeah I didn't read that Flur but I said yes whatever whatever consolidates would you like um a motion to of approval you just if you're all in favor I'll record it as as such do you have any questions about the project no no no pretty clear thank you that's a good one um two planning board regulations review 17514 plans for def subdivisions 17515 require submissions for subt there you want to explain your int this is where the board off in terms of going through all the regulations oh okay oh okay I wasn't sure if you had changes or yeah so this is right from the code and where can we start putting or amending since we see the problems that we're coming up with language that allows for some common sense um without having to change a bylaw uh you can't because of legal stuff how how can you can't well there still has to be parameters yeah for anything right water Health you know those parameters must be met for conservation you know Wetlands all those have to be met no matter what okay okay I my question keeps coming up with lot size and setbacks okay we don't have that much land that's going to be built on okay once Town water does someday because the plan is that you know I have to tell you well two things I have to tell you I had a realtor annual meeting today that was a lunch and I sat with people from a couple of different towns um I always like to sit with people that I don't always see kind of thing talk about what's going on in the towns two [Music] compliments excuse me we're given to towns one the staff is extremely friendly they found these are other Realtors who have come into town versus other towns and have said they're so welcoming they're so helpful okay and I they're Nic people out of town versus in town but these were all from out of town okay okay so that's s yeah and then the other was wow your water department rocks yes they do I I agree with that they do a good job so we were very fortunate in that our commissioner went after grant funding to take care of this pest it's it's it's known Nationwide now what's going on here not just Statewide Nationwide but he did a tremendous job getting those grants right and that is his plan for 13 connecting from Townsen to lunenberg okay there there might be that parcel that might benefit from that someday okay um so do you understand what I'm saying I think you should use common sense still adhere to all the law safety laws water laws septic laws but if it doesn't make sense because you don't have the right topography you might have the acreage but not the right topography when you have a level a level piece of land that's sandy soil it's like Prime and when you have that next to town water that's gold so why would we inhibit because today it's very expensive anyway to build anything the materials are expensive the labor is worse um the clothes are tougher everything yes everything um the interest rates aren't what they were will they ever be you know to be able to afford the pricing of today everything is like a pebble in the brook and it spreads how are we going to make some sense of that do the do the most economical thing to do for example this afternoon the road is closed at Turnpike Road going past Bing school I remember that for quite some time fire police other ton of people there ton of cars there what they do exercises no a lithium battery really yes how good is that blew up how good is that for the environment well that's what I when those energy people came and spoke about you know we have to have electric cars everywhere what do you do with all these batteries what do you do with the panels off my daughter's house she's had solar panels on her house though for I don't know 16 17 years so she's got probably another five years of life left and when her happens to all that material what happen to all that material he couldn't even answer my questions because they don't think that far they're just say oh that's a good thing for today and they want to make what is it she what is the governor just said something about trucks every third truck that's being built has to be electric by what a cost Factor that's going to be who's going to it's in the building it's already in there it's coming January 1 it's 2025 something how much sense does that make in the building code so the building code is supposed to be about Public Safety yeah and it's turned its focus now on energy and at the risk of Public Safety and that's been going on for 10 years okay the insurance companies now but just imagine I deal with this all the time so if you had a Oceanfront home okay the code now is for protecting the building more as a priority over the occupants so just imagine now that you're in a twostory home and you have a child up on the second floor if you're within one mile of the ocean you have to have a laminated glass where you can't penetrate through okay so how is a fireman supposed to rescue a child there okay um so you know you have to look at the broad picture and not focus on one topic without looking at it all in general I agree right I agree and they don't do that no because one hand doesn't know what the other hand is doing and how it's going to affect the other department or the other thing or the other company or whatever or I mean I've even heard where they tell you not I don't electric cars in your garage because of five yeah they'll blow up yeah they'll burn the whole thing down no it's you know this is you look at it right now so in the last 15 to 20 years and we talk about the Hurricanes down in Florida okay they increased their building codes 200% and the insur at the pressure from the insurance company now those very same insurance companies are denying insurance or not oh yeah I've heard that right yeah so so what is five million or billion whatever they just promoted uh approved here at the state for building homes what is that going to do it's going to help the Developers do what it's a subsidies that we're paying through our tax they're gonna get how many units do you and who who's going to get those units that's a good question who's going to build those units that's another question get those questions all the people that they can't in hotel right I I I could tell you something is very wrong it's very anti-American it's very anti-American citizens to tax us to death and that's what's happening they're ruining small everything else um can I make one comment can I bring something to the attention of the board on what on as as a reference for this project in future projects okay but no don't do this one specifically because we're out of public hearing I'm sure we out of the public hearing you cannot discuss that until the public hearing give me a hypothetical do something a lot in general yes a lot of these new developments if you examine them or in many instances you'll find that they're designed for the benefit of the developer okay and as an example you have a pre conceived dwelling unit that is rubber stamped so imp planning the conceptual plan is based upon a predetermined unit profile okay what I'm saying that is a footprint okay so in several instances there are other Alternatives those Alternatives may require a more creative site plan or modifying the building rubber stamp to accommodate the site better are you following what I'm saying yeah I think so I think we had the same discussion for the one before well in other words there's no creativity putting in to this like I suggested earlier you know there may be other Alternatives okay well that's something that still can be thought about for let's get back to the bylaw though how do we how how can we be more flexible in using our common sense for a particular property because every property is different okay and most of the properties that are larger first of all they don't fit they don't fit the concept of what what we want to get done as far as being access for the elderly to have accessible to Services you just hit it on the nail head every project is different every design and profile has to be unique to that project okay agre all right yeah so when you have a in other words when I look at these site plans as an architect I look at other alternative creative ways to meet the client's objective so if my client is a developer okay then I would explore with him other alter Alternatives and providing the kind of structure there that would meet his program and and the same time you're thinking about your client and the cost that he has to or she has to have or entail in order to produce the product if you get so cre creative just to follow the bylaws okay even though it could be more than what the bylaw allows if you're just following what the bylaw allows and trying to be creative to fit within that bylaw that you think might be okay it may not be affordable to to obtain especially today well there did I make my point with that one I I get your point but there are other considerations all right tell me your other considerations right technology one construction management too okay there more um for example I was involved with an affordable housing program and it was designed for IR regular Lots so there was a basic building profile for a core building that would be generic to all of them with different configurations so that generic profile did not have a given front back rear or side okay it was a core structure that would accommodate things all of that can be computerized I did this in the 7s okay but computerized for what you're not the computer's not example in the 70s I had a developer that did 600 units a year okay so we through computers we had files for different floor plan we had four different Flor plans every year that we introduced okay that had eight versions so we can go down the street and there be 32 different houses that are almost the same but have different character okay timbery Park in the 70s um well 400 homes okay so not only that but when we did a project okay we avoided all the mle men there was no lumber yards we bought directly from the window companies from the from the lumber yards okay so that's technolog all right that's how you get cost down all right and in a community like this there's so many ways that our community can do more with typically lots that would be non-buildable okay particularly with a developer where we as a community link up with six or seven different towns each one offering four or five or six unbuildable Lots so a developer is not trying to make a huge project on six units he's making a similar or even greater project a profit on doing 30 at a time so if towns collectively got together and offered so many Lots then developer could take a prototype home and use it 30 times in one big project okay so here's the other thing we're dealing with we're dealing with a small town called Townsen we're also dealing with a lot of local people who who own and want to do things here why are we not helping them why are we interested in developers coming in from other areas and going from town to town to build a prototype wait no if you're talking about affordable you examine it what where are the costs going and how can you improve on I just wanted to know if you're going to finish the agend all right I okay I got my but I but I want us to think about this I want us to think about addressing the bylaw change to have a little flexibility in it so that the approving body who sits to listen to people who come in can have some kind of flexibility if it makes sense if it makes sense um and so this was a bylaw issue because you kept bringing up bylaw and so didn't Adam about having a some flexibility within our bylaw I'm not going to be here forever you're not going to be here forever okay and things change it today is not the 70s in any way shape or form you're never going to have a 600 600 being done again unless you're in Texas or some desert are you say that that's not true that's not true I I'm just if you look at how affordable is being addressed today it's with subsidies to released with do we have to do the um correspondence oh do we need to release items could you want to take action on the uh review of the regulations that I printed out for here or do you want to do that next meeting it's on the agenda it's oh do you want me to read the correspondence I'm GNA continue 3.2 to the next meeting okay okay thank you um I'm hoping that we got both of us got some points across okay on that um all right and that's you know kind of it you know want to go through correspondence yeah 4.1 can do that yeah okay decision of the voting board of appeals by the variance application of Brian gger 22 miles Lane shley property address 22 miles Lane public was held on Monday October 7th 2024 so it was the decision was preach came to to say what the findings were um you have to read the whole thing just as a result of coral comments and written submissions the zoning board of appeals made the following findings of special permit application and this Associated material submitted by the applicant and discuss at the public hearing satisfy the requirements of the to of shirle protected zoning bylaws in the -2 District made a motion Vice chief G made a motion to approve the special permit under section 210.8 of the protective Sony bylaws accessory buildings with the following condition but accessory building will only be used for housing livestock this is okay notice a decision 203 Greenville Road the decision of the board is a grant the variance to setback with conditions condition to array to be no closer than 60 ft from center of road with complete decisions f with the timeable dur business hours that's it Ashby um the town of Lunenburg will hold a public hearing on on 1028 2024 6:05 p.m. 17 Main Street lunenberg mass for management permit 70 Kil Street town of lunenberg will hold the public hearing on 10 well I guess it's already no 10:28 2024 at 6:05 p.m um at 17 Main Street lenberg mass for a site plan approval St Water Management permit for at 494 electric ad lenberg public hearing 1028 2024 at 6:05 p.m. 17 Main Street blumenberg Mass St Water Management permit for 791 moner Road and is public heing for lunberg on 1028 2024 for St one management permit 7951 Road thank you do we have any documents for 4.2 or are they just in the portal are in Port I didn't print them okay so 4.2 has received massachusett Regional Planning Commission and other agency notices and they're in our portal so we're not reading them into the record five education training these are just standards for you to look to see 5.1 CI planner collaborative and the call Winter workshops and there's webinars and then 5.2 plan board member resource library and thank you Beth for everything that's in there I just want to hop back up to 3.2 ask you Beth has printed off for us 3.2 17514 and 17515 and I'm going to ask that you mark them up huh you mark them up look at them and see if there's anything in these two sections that you would change to make it easier for us and everybody else okay so these two they're in your packet okay she gave them to you you should and this will be on the agenda again next month okay and we'll discuss it then right sure should be two y okay you off that's where we'll where we'll continue the discussion next and so now I'll entertain a motion and I want to again thank you for your comments you want to what thank you for your comments oh because I appreciate the back and forth discussion I think it's healthy for everybody um I'll entertain a motion to adjourn this meeting at 7:49 pm I'll make a motion to adourn at 7:49 p.m. I okay and I agree so we are adjourned