um and I'll vote I'll vote Yes as well so that's enough yeah probably more than enough all right um are members pardon are we having are we expecting any else to join us for the board members CBA I don't know is our other member joining us Anthony um sends his regrets he's he hadn't got he didn't catch the early train so I'm sorry he won't be coming okay we have we have enough to conduct business today yeah yeah we need four votes so four people will do it um let me see here I wanted to so we don't have uh Mr Shephard on on board yet is he coming or is he sending an emissary um I'm I didn't get a definite but I think you'll see uh Stan delis or someone from delis and Roy they're not on till 640 anyways yeah oh that's true all right um has anybody read there's some minutes to be approved has anybody read them they looked okay to me I I read them they looked to yep I read them and they looked fine um so why don't we go ahead and get a motion to approve them don't moov second second anybody second okay so that was two sets of minutes correct just one just the January 30th sorry I've read so many documents today and second sorry yeah so polling the members John yes Darlene yes Vicki yes and Bill cigan votes yes as well so the minutes are approved and what are we getting we're 6:34 so we got another 6 minutes anybody have any burning issues no it although um and Darlene and I had talked about something uh not having to do with the zba directly but in doing a little bit of homework we do variances we do special permits um easements but unless it's something that directly impacts the land parcel uh recording at the registry of deeds should not be necessary it's only the things that that you know again a variance or a special permit um but I think we've been having people record stuff that they don't need to record yeah I I actually never I never never dawned on me before after all the years I've served on the zoning board we tell people you'll you know we have two weeks to to write the decision you're going to get it good and Bill always instructs them how they have to record it at the registry of deeds and blah blah blah um never realized that a special permit for an accessory apartment does not have to be recorded to be valid so um only things like like a variance or or an easement because the special permit for an accessory apartment doesn't run with the land it runs with the person right so that was an attorney um you know we we did a little digging on that because I don't think any of us realized it including the building inspector and and the land use Department yeah and I ran into that recently where um there were previous decisions granted and they weren't recorded y so they were trying to tell me that they weren't valid when the opinion is that they they certainly are valid they valid is so need to be recorded right well but I mean the the whole point of record I I I have to disagree with you because it's a special permit it needs to be recorded I mean that that only protects the applicant as much as anybody else because you know if um lose all records what there's nothing that would preclude them from from recording it if they wanted if they felt that that was going to provide them some additional but as far as statutorily for whatever my humble opinion is worth and I spoke with a couple other people about this who do land stuff and they say unless it's something that goes directly to the property uh but not just to the per because the special permit is is for people it's not any the other part of of that is is the permit expires upon transfer of a property it expires anyways so I mean hey if it would me I would recort it actually Darlene it only expires if we say it does on the transfer of the property uh if we don't if if we don't explicitly say that it expires on the transfer of the property that there's nothing intrinsically there that says it expires I agree because we used to have it they used to expire what did we they were good for what three was it three or five years had five years on the on the accessory apartments and I just thought we changed it so it ran with the property to the point of transfer so what causes that we just arbitrarily decided to do that or is that in our rules or I guess now I'm curious to understand that and Dave Chanel recommended it theet yeah the sunset Clause yeah um because you know these accessory apartments are in single family homes and if they choose not to continue the use they don't have to it would just be a single family home so the special permit is for the use not the actual property um so that's where that opinion that legal opinion came in well I'd like to see that opinion and confirm it with Town Council that's all um but I I think it's much smarter for the applicants to record these decisions because then there's no argument about it you know I agree with that I mean that's the whole purpose of the registry of deeds is to record all these things so that um you know they're um not hanging out in the breeze somewhere in somebody's strong box or safe deposit box or you know heaven forbid town hall right so the the recommend it's recommended but not required to register well can we can we send is there any reason why we can't um send a memo to Our Town Council to ask that question and get their opinion I actually have to talk to Adam tomorrow about something else anyways I can just throw that into the conversation okay if that meets with the so the host just tcam just let in somebody with the label anonymous anonymous wow so there was a there's a new presidential candidate with that some some similar I guess now they're gone folks Anonymous left but thank you we no we can't prevent somebody from attending a virtual meeting and force them to identify themselves I've already checked with the state on that all we can do is monitor their activity and if they do something that is objectionable we can boot them out of the meeting but we can't prevent them from coming into the meeting to begin with yep and that's why I just noted it so we would be you aware I saw it I'm sitting here watching thank you at least it wasn't unanimous what was the name of that presidential candidate I can't remember it was pretty good was like the last Joe Biden no no no Burman Queen the least least U something candidate I I don't know least objectionable candidate I think he changed his name officially to to something like that it was pretty funny he was up in New Hampshire wasn't he I don't know well we're at 6:41 if we want to open the hearing for the special it's usually it's usually um more useful to have the applicant around but I mean I mean I can go through the I can go through the mandatory referrals but you know it's one of those at the tree falls in the forest did it make any noise there's no one suppose we could have the clerk read it open it up and see what happens I move we open the 645 public hearing for the application for renewal of an accessory apartment special permit located at 355 Main Street assessors map 18-8 d0 no no that's not tonight on the wrong planet John that's no no no no that's what I have this is a Gary Shephard this is this is Earth removal tonight you're reading the minutes oh my printer is not working right that was in the minutes from the the three accessories that we did all right fine you want the legal notice then for Mr Shepard sounds good in accordance with Mass General Law chapter 4A and the towns and Zoning bylaw the towns and Zoning Board of Appeals will hold a remote access only public hearing on March 27th 2024 at 6:40 p.m. on the applic of Gary Shepard for a special permit under the zoning bylaw sections 145 to 46 145 to 65 and 145-40 the applicant is requesting a special permit to continue existing operations and remove 109,000 cubic yards of gravel from the property at three-wheeler Road assessor map block assessor map 4 BL block n lot Zer the public May attend attend a remote access only public hearing on tcam hosted Zoom meeting at and so on do we need all of that no you don't have to read it all I think that covers it um so is there a motion then to open the hearing I move that we open the hearing second okay polling the members John yes Darlene yes Vicki yes and Bill cigan votes yes as well so the hearing's open um moving right along to the referrals um the um let's see how does this work um I've got one from the land use coordinator who happens to be on the horn tonight um APPL application complet list comments provided to staff previously I recommend zba requesting a construction activity schedule phasing plan be submitted annually to help monitor activities under this permit sounds good to me um then we have the um who is this oh the select board um thinks that we're competent to to handle this and thanks us for our hard work um let's see having a hard time telling who this is from uh oh oh okay planning board says that they uh support issuing a permit for this project and that's signed by Laura shiffrin the chairman um kcom says no comment and that's signed by I don't know who that is can't read it the clerk of the kcom um the Building Commissioner says no comment and the um what is this one oh Board of Health Board of Health says removal of gravel may not create a nuisance um condition and dust controls must be used so as not to create a violation to 310 CMR 7.0 did you mention the police chief he was no comment as well yeah that's I see that down in the last one as the police chief saying um see no no issues um says Mr sort all right [Music] okay anything else we're still I think um I don't know that it's worth having any discussion without the applicant present right did they like forget the date or something I think what we should do is um continue um continue the hearing to the next um meeting or whatever let's figure out what the date is and and we also need to I think to do a site visit I'm particularly concerned about what's going on with the old Craven property uh which ab buts this and um also belongs to Gary sheer now so oh okay I don't I don't know what that's going to do to this project or whether he's trying to keep them totally separate or what the deal is there was a comment in the application about that but um I'm sure when they present they would would assume they'd give some clarification and um some more information but yeah I would I think what did we give a special permit in 2016 and again in 2020 that was a really long time ago um I think the 2016 we did a site visit for that but yeah like I mean that's that's a long time ago um yeah so I I would love to I'm a visual person I I would love to see what it is and I'm talking about and if if they could have do you guys want to do I'm thinking we should do a site visit that's planned not everybody go on their own because you've got to got to get into the property it's not just from the curb ECT um and the one thing I would ask is if someone could have an actual copy of the plan there so that someone can say we're standing here or we're standing here because it's a it's big yeah does that make sense I've got an eiz version but there's probably bigger ones around there I'm sure there's one in our file you know the thing fold and full size yeah um all right all right so um what so what's good to set a time for the site visit I mean with Saturday morning work or um is that bad for uh this Saturday I have it yeah I have yeah I'm available I'm available I don't have anything on Saturday morning okay so probably do but I'll work around it 10 o'clock maybe so Beth can you call them and and set that up y great Saturday yeah all right all right I'd like to make a motion to continue do we do we say you like a motion to continue till next time yeah you'll need a date and time uh what would why don't we pick a date to continue the hearing to that wouldn't be the um the site visit right right so yeah site just looking around not not talking about the application no talking yep so if we go uh so do we have to go so I make a motion to continue uh the Wheeler Road special permit hearing to April 10th at 7 p.m. and site visits Saturday um which is the 30th at 10: a.m. y and we want to make this a a hybrid meeting instead of just a zoom only or or what that's fine yeah I can arrange that uh I trying to think if conservation is meeting on that night avilable for they are you'll see who's my favorite if I show up here to consom you'll never know um Bill to your point about hybrid I I caution on that having some people in the in the meeting room and some people online it's a nightmare I I would go for either one or the other um that's my opinion yeah especially since you started with a virtual in terms of opening the public hearing you should probably continue in the same way okay all right I know well don't want to make a fuss that's for sure there's so many issues when you have some people in the room and the restaurant virtual it's like whole different setup so did you guys um you want to second that motion to continue and vote on it I'll second that okay okay pulling the members uh John yes Darlene yes Vicky yes and Bill kigan votes yes as well so the motion carries we're going to continue the hearing till Wednesday April 10 at 7 o'clock I have a question about the site visit what if it doesn't work for the applicant or somebody to show us around um well I'm not sure I would ADM I've um actually requested a number of times for the board to come out um but no offer was ever made no time was ever scheduled by the applicant so at this point I can't say whether they're going to respond or not because they've been nonresponsive to multiple I'm talking about a time that's good for them to be around not whether they're interested or not um oh I can um ask the engineer again I did read reach out to the representative engineer uh via email and heard no response um I called and emailed um so I would do that again you know primarily I would suggest doing it this way send him an email and said the board would like to do an inspection on Saturday at 10: a. uh please let us know if that's going to be a problem for you okay and that that way if they don't get back to them we can have our inspection we'll just show up at least we gave them notice I would I would also let them know that we met on this date we opened the public hearing and we continued it because I have a funny feeling it's really unlike people to show up for something this important I have a feeling somebody messed up yeah I did calendar yeah I did send this out on Thursday to both the applicant and his representative engineer and the engineer did respond so the applicant did not but the engineer his representative engineer did I assumed he was all fat it's unlike him to not attend a public hearing you want to ask the probably down at Town Hall looking for the meeting oh no I told him it was remote they're well aware I said you cannot come in person want to H ask the individual who's in the meeting if they want to speak the member of the public perhaps they have some information Christie I don't know oh hi um I moved to Townsend over the winter I live up um West Meadow Road and so the scope of the project has been notable and I am attending to learn more okay thank you thank you also nice to meet you you too thanks for coming great so then we'll again um we the board will resume uh on again April 8th at 7 so um log into the town calendar for the zoom link okay April 10th to clarify not the 8th yeah I was gonna say I thought that you said April 10th yeah yeah April 8th is the eclipse and that's all anybody's going to do that day yeah I was going to go up to Vermont for that [Laughter] but I'll end up sleeping in my truck and then it may end up cloudy right do we have anything else to do well um I oh I just wanted to note on a couple of Correspondence items that um there is a planning board public hearing April 1st at 6:30 it's also hybrid um proposing amend amendments to bylaws and proposing um changes to planning board regulations the amendments to the zoning bylaws are in preparation for a 2024 annual town meeting um so that's on Monday and um I'm sorry yeah Monday the 1 and it's going to be a joint meeting with the bylaw Review Committee and the planning board um the bylaw Review Committee is bringing forward a number of um amend prop OS zoning amendments and a number of uh bylaws to to Springtown meeting so we're taking care of just the zoning um amendments at this planning board hearing because that's a statutory requirement um I would ask you guys if you haven't already to take the uh survey for MBTA 3A compliance um I don't know if you've seen that it's under my email signatures I just wanted to ask again hard to miss Beth yeah so I'm trying to think we had a couple of things oh um and the B I'm sorry the master plan um is going to be uh rolling around for implementation and um if Jessica has a minute to chime in I would love to let her introduce um our role in our our goal hello sorry I'm not prepared for this but I do Under pressure no worries simple simple doing um yes so we the master plan was issued or reproved um I think about three years ago at this point and to my knowledge it's pretty much just that collecting a little bit of dust so and whatever else is in the L used office so um what I've done with with best help is just unearth all sorts of different town reports and plans um and we started making sort of a master list of goals free to the boards and committees and departments in town and lucky zba made the cut in the master plan for some implementation um so I'll just real quick read through what y'all's um responsibilities are hold on one second all right so under um so so all different recommendations in town the town should you know consider adopting or moving toward based on the different goals of residents mainly and and town representative to move the town forward so um one of the zba implementation goals is working in collaboration with the planning board and the water department for a water recommendation to ensure potential developments impacting water capacity are reviewed by T the town Conservation Commission by the planning board and the board of appeals during projects review that might have an impact on the groundwater resources that's one we have three total under the recreation and Open Space chapter the zba would work in collaboration with planning board and massachusett Regional Planning Commission to encourage balanced land use consistent with New England character through zoning and development review that is sensitive to Wildlife corridors cyclical review of zoning districts to ensure land use suitability and preservation of agric agricultural resources [Music] um there was one more hang on and then um last but not least in collaboration with the planning board and the Apparently elusive towns and Business Association under Economic Development uh that the town needs to develop bylaws that support businesses while at the same time support the rural nature of the community and protecting the environment so um just over the next few years few months um we have sort of a a working table that we'd like each board committee Department you know whichever responsible entity is to just start filling in the table so maybe some things that you've been working on the past few years that we don't really know about or that you never even knew we were in collaboration with some of your goals um to start filling in that table and then see how we might be able to continue to to move forward to meet our goals so can I say something yes hi John Pidge hey John I'm on the zoning board and also am slash was the chairman of the charter Review Committee that process is excuse me hung up in the Senate and I'm just concerned that there are things that may get implemented or proposed that are going to be contrary to what the town voted for to move forth with a new town [Music] Charter okay well what's the process yeah what's the process approval let's see I I am almost living in the homes of Senator Cronin and representative Scarsdale trying to get this thing push through before the end of session because if it doesn't then we have to start all over again and then the question from a legal standpoint is are we existing without a charter um so like I I said I I make daily phone calls I was charged with seeing this thing through and I am bound and determined to make it happen uh but it's looking increasingly scary that's [Music] unfortunate yeah because because we had we had a committee of nine people and we worked for several years to make some changes to the Charter and now it's been almost several more years is that we're still waiting for all of our folks down on Beacon Hill to get off their back ends and this is not a big deal doesn't cost anybody any money it just brings towns in up to up to speed in terms of requirements for Charters yeah thank you okay yeah I I um it's interesting to hear Jessica's U three three points there and and um you know the the issues always I've always had with the master plan is it has no legal Force you know it's it's like an advisory thing it's what the town wants based on the survey and the input from the various people that create the Master Plan update but um you know as a regulatory board you know we're not specifically responsible for creating zoning bylaws uh that that's more of the purview of the planning board and right now we have the bylaw Review Committee which is kind of you know sticking our nose into the planning board business so it's going to be interesting to see how that works out at town meeting but anyway we'll uh we'll do our best but um it's hard to get everybody singing off the same sheet now in those three goals does the zba have to create any bylaws or not necessarily well see I mean the what the Jessica what was the first one because that that one um that rang some Bells with me the water yeah I mean our you know our water protection is is you know it's difficult I mean we've the problem is the town has all these shallow Wells so protection of our water is wicked important and regulations to protect it are not very good I mean we have limitations in the uh in the zone one of contribution to the Wells and you're you know you're not supposed to be able to build in there uh and but you know we had uh for instance copper Smith way was built we um we had them use these um I forget the name of it it's a special type of septic system that reduces the nitrogen loading by 50% um and and we we also had this awesome uh map that showed the water flow from that piece of property into the cross street well and um you know we we lost that map and I know who who's who has it but you know I haven't been able to get it out of them they won't they said they would only give it to uh the guy who went belly up there that on coppersmith way I forget his name but but I would think the town should try to get that map because that would be really useful information for us to have to be able to estimate potential nitrogen loading from other projects on different resource areas because you know it's not it's not a trival um exercise to get all these field observations in in place to create a map like that and um but the problem is you know we'd have to pass a B on that said hey you know if your nitrogen loading is over a certain amount in this particular area we're not giving you a building permit because you know it's it's just like these people that want to build on the beach and uh you know the beach is being eroded by climate change and big storms um and you know we're all footing the bill for those people's uh flood insurance uh you have to the town has to learn how to say no we're we're not going to let you build there because of if there's a reason this is a good reason and um it's very difficult to say no to developers they don't like that at all but anyway I I think it's great I mean we should definitely be talking about that and uh if we could figure out a framework to have that conversation that would be good yeah I mean just as a recommendation if you sort of the the spearhead of this responsibility is listed as the water department and then collaborating entities are planning board and zba so I mean I think it's fine you know if you guys wanted to have the the current water Superintendent at least to to a meeting maybe your next meeting or you know just one over the next few months just to see you know what language might be helpful what review techniques he's already using that that aren't necessarily in the bylaws or where everyone thinks it might be a good fit to do something like this yeah that's good and you know we're we're going to be uh doing a a a zoning well both zoning and general bylaw review over the next couple of years so it's kind of the IDE ideal time to have these conversations right we are um we're in the process Beth and I are meeting with the Town Administrator tomorrow to to see what Avenues we have to get a more technical review of our bylaws um you know there's there's a lot of legal review options out there and editorial grammatical type of review options but we um you know we we think it's important especially for towns and where environmental resources are are so precious to to ensure that our bylaws are you know are written in ways so that development is done sustainably with with a lot of consideration toward natural resources so we'd like to get a more technical scientific type of review and a assessment of our bylaws so I think a a lot of these points will be hopefully will be brought up during that review sounds good great all right well I have to hop off for another me good to see everybody have a good night thank you okay you too all right that's it anything [Music] else all right well I'll see you Saturday move to adjourn anybody what time are we on Saturday again 10 o'clock 10 o'clock I just wanted to make sure I had my calendar yeah all right motion to adjourn move to adjourn second fing the members John yes Darlene yes Vicki yes and Bill cigan votes yes as well so meetings adjourned thank you very much folks