e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e you know my feeling all right welcome everyone um good evening Welcome to our first Commission meeting in our new city hall new commission [Applause] Chambers this is the um March 26 2024 City commission regular meeting um we're very thored to be here I just want to thank all of our staff for the hard work over the past week in particular and getting um moved in sorry I have to remember to talk into the mic a little bit closer um it looks amazing and we're just it's this has been a long time coming so it's it's kind of surreal to be sitting right here so thank you all for being here in the audience and thank you again to the staff so if we can we'll get started with the Pledge of Allegiance everyone please stand all right um our first item on the agenda um is our swearing in ceremony for newly elected Commissioners so as you all know we just had an election last week a week ago tonight um but before we move into that I just wanted to recognize commissioner Wetzel and um thank her for her service on for the last four years representing Sunset Beach and just wanted to turn it over to you and if you have any parting words sure absolutely um I first I would like to acknowledge this beautiful view that we have here from these Chambers which is um I'm a little I'm a little bit jealous that I didn't have this view for a while and that this but I am glad that I get to see it um but I would like to thank the city staff who is just amazing um they are we have such a great just the from the full Administration here from the top down everybody works so hard and always has the best interest of the city at heart um all of the Commissioners here do I know that a lot of people get um a lot of criticism and not enough Kudos all the time but um there are so many things that go on behind the scenes that I had no idea until I was in this position just how things are done and how they get done and how we how we make everything run and everybody has been absolutely oh I forgot to turn off my phone believe that that's so embarrassing the first time in four years um so the um but I just our staff is just um whether it's um somebody picking up um items on the beach or you know getting driving those little garbage trucks on the beach to you know doing the most highlevel um things here it's just a a great great staff to work with and and we see how hard they work and then um as Gary was just pointing out at 6:00 everybody was quiet and um you know where they were supposed to and everybody was as acting you know as as they should when a meeting starts and I said that's because it's Sunset Beach people here tonight district four people because I always say when we have things going on that our District 4 people are I mean I I love all of Treasure Island don't get me wrong but and I maybe I'm just a little biased but I love our district four people so much um we live we have the opport we have the opportunity to live in um you know such a a wonderful place all of Treasure Island and then we have our eclectic Corner down there where um it is uh quite a variety of people and but I do love all of Treasure Island I I all of the um as as you sit here you're not just working for one neighborhood you are working for the betterment of the whole city so I really appreciate the opportunity that everyone has given me to serve you and it has been a pleasure it's been quite an experience and I will miss it so but I'm ready to move on so thank you and congratulations to Art and Dicky I know that um he will do a great job all right thank you we'll turn it over to our city clerk Seline to do our swearing in thank e e [Applause] we also had two seats that were uncontested so now those individuals also have to be sworn in for their um next term [Applause] e e e all right thank you everyone and congratulations to all those that are sworn in tonight and um we'll go ahead and get started with the rest of our meeting so roll call please commissioner Toth here commissioner doctor here commissioner Min here commissioner dicki here mayor pay here thank you thank you all right next we have approval of regular and workshop agendas do we have any changes that need to be made on our agenda this evening no okay hearing none we'll proceed as the agenda is is published uh we do not have any proclamations recognitions or certificates of appreciation this evening so we'll move into public comments for non-agenda items I have a few cards um I have Carrie arbach hi everybody bu Carrie arbach Treasure Island adopted Beach um I live in St Petersburg and I just I'm so excited for all of you this is just so great um the building is fantastic I just want to remind people that April 13th I know it's a busy day the community appreciation day is going on um but in the morning at 830 across from Waffle House there's a special cleanup and it's going to be a little ridiculous and a little fun and very educational uh we have trash Colin we have trash wolf if you've never seen him he dresses up in a wolf costume I kid you not um and he cleans all over St Petersburg but he's joining me and uh keep pel's beautiful and the sea turtle trackers and we're going to have a cleanup fun games giveaways food and uh just learning about the turtle season coming up uh and then I'm going to scoot over and see you all at the community center so just wanted to let everybody know and congratulations and uh this space is just beautiful thank you thank you all right uh do we have any other public comments for non-agenda items um we will move on to commissioner reports start with commissioner Toth um good evening congratulations ardan I wish you well sure you're close to the microphone sorry not used to that the other one used to Echo over great thank you for attending in person Welcome to our new city hall and I'd like to remind everyone that the ribbon cutting ceremony is April 2nd at 6m I'd also like to Echo Beth and thank our city staff that's persevered and got us here and also kind of like to remember Amy Davis our former city manager that also had a huge part in getting us moved into here I would also like to extend a huge thank you to our Treasure Island his Historical Society for the amazing mural and I look forward to seeing some of the treasures they've collected when we get them put out around this our new city hall I'd like to remind everyone that the AARP Foundation tax help is ongoing at the library on Tuesdays from 10:00 a.m. to 300 p.m. please call ahead to reserve your time also the library is expanding the events at the library to include painting ma mang children's programs look it up on the C updated calendar on the library website you can also follow along the library on Facebook other upcoming events include the chicken the children's Easter egg hunt this Saturday at 10:00 a.m. in the community park and that's sponsored by golf Beach's rotary and thank you thank you all for coming in our new Hall you commissioner Dr yes thank you um I just want to add one thing thank you very much for uh promoting the Easter egg hunt um what we would like people to do if they're going to go down because it's going to be over here at the community center and uh we'd like people to arrive around 9 o' so that the kids have some excitement and then they're going to start taking pictures with the Easter Bunny at 9:40 so if you want to get any pictures of your grandchildren with Easter Bunny or anything else uh be a little bit earlier than 10 and and that'll work out very well um also the uh aisle of Palms is right now as we speak having their spaghetti dinner and it looks like it's going to be a great success uh my wife and I went down there and had dinner before we came over here uh but if anybody needs anything to eat they're still there and they will be until 7 and then last of all the sons of the American Legion uh usually we do a car show and it's in April well this year we're changing it we originally said it was going to be in April but now it is actually going to be May 25th so uh don't show up in uh any weekend in April but uh we'll give you a time and all the information as we get closer to May 25th thank you thank you all right Comm minning yes a couple of items um I think the residents of Paradise Island District 3 uh have been aware of two issues that have been uh more or less front and center and that is the revation or the read Landscaping of paradise Boulevard uh as one and I am happy to tell you now that that's I ask city manager Gary if you want to give us a little more update on that please well we're actually G to talk about at the work okay we've got ideas we've got some ideas and we've got some ways that we're going to recommend we go forward from here we we had good feedback from uh residents of Paradise Island and we put that together and so at the workshop okay the workshop item will be a discussion then of the Landscaping along Paradise Boulevard uh and the second one is what do we do about the um living Shoreline um the golf course uh at Treasure Bay um and the um and there's help you with that we're stuck in a bit of a permit issue right now soon as we get that last one soon as we get that permit bids are going to go out for both okay in the trail there'll be three separate elements uh the bid package um so um the city can take all three they can take two they can take one um but it'll be up to their discretion so what I want to say is stay tuned dicki I have a couple of uh let people know about on 5th at the uh there's going to be a bonfire on the beach at the jti by The Pavilion starting around 6 pm we'll have food there uh beverages available for sale as well as selling T-shirts and uh membership so uh that's always one of the biggest events the Sunset Beach Community Association does and it's lots of fun I've been to several of them and uh and and had and bring relatives to that one too because that that's always a big hit uh a second uh upcoming event is on Thursday May 2nd will be the annual barbecue Sunset Beach barbecue at the Lions Club Mr I gotam will cook the food and the beach ratch will provide the uh entertainment so tickets for that event will be on sale at the bonfire they'll be uh charging $30 and there are a limited number of tickets only uh 35 tickets can be sold for that event uh and finally I just want to thank the voters of District 4 for giving me the honor to serve as their representative on this city commission that's all I have all right thank you um for me I just wanted to I think it probably been said but just want to make sure everyone's aware next Tuesday right um April 2nd at 6: PM we will not have our normally scheduled commission meeting because it's the week after Easter so when we set the schedule we decided to um cancel that one but instead we are going to be doing an official ribbon cutting for the City Hall at 6 PM um so even though we're all here tonight s the staff has moved in we're going to make it official a week from tonight on Tuesday April 2nd at 6 p.m. so please join us we'll be joined by the Tampa Bay beaches of Chamber of Commerce and the Treasure Island madir Beach Chamber of Commerce I believe um to help us with that ribbon cutting um and we'll have our former um city manager Amy Davis will be here as well for that since she was so involved with the the whole project and that is all I have for my report so so we'll move into approval of minutes we have one set of minutes to approve for the commission regular meeting on February 6 um do we have a motion to approve sure I'll make a motion that we approve the regular commission meeting minutes on February 6 2024 second okay it's been moved and seconded do we have any comments or discussion on the minutes okay any public comments all right hearing none roll call please commissioner Tod I commissioner doctor I commissioner Min hi commissioner dicty hi Payne hi all right uh we have no items on the consent agenda so we'll move into our items of business and first up is an election of a vice mayor have a introduction of that or sure sure um let's see to nominate elect a vice mayor is accordance with our city Charter section 3.04 and City commission rule 2.1 the vice mayor will serve as mayor in the absence or disability of the mayor and as a proceeding officer during commission meetings um this is something that we do um every annually this year and um annually excuse me all right thank you um so I'll open the floor for nominations for vice mayor I'd like to nominate John doctor you accept the nomination yes we have any other nominations all right um then I will entertain a motion to nominate um John doctor as our vice mayor so moved second all right um any comments or discussion think you'll do a great job thank you for being um any public comment all right hearing none roll call please commissioner Manning I commissioner dicki I commissioner Toth hi commissioner doctor hi sorry mayor pay hi congratulations vice mayor thank you okay next is item J2 first reading and public hearing of ordinance 20245 amending chapter 68 zoning regulations regarding public boardwalks we have a staff report mayor if I could I'll read it by title oh yes thank you ordinance 2024 d05 an ordinance of the city of Treasure Island Florida amending chapter 68 zoning regulations of the city of Treasure Island code of ordinances is by revising Article 1 in general section 68-20 Dash I'm sorry to add a definition for Boardwalk amending section 68463 miscellaneous lot regulations to include public Boardwalk as an allowed structure overwater providing for severability providing for conflict providing for codification and providing for an effective date okay thank you Mary Ellen right can you hear me yes okay um so this is the first reading in public hearing for ordinance 202 24-5 amending the zoning regulations chapter 68 um the purpose of this ordinance is to clarify the Land Development regs by amending chapter 68 to add a definition of a public Boardwalk into include a public Boardwalk as an allowed structure over water um so we evaluated the Land Development regulations recently and determin that a clear definition was needed to be more consistent with existing public boardwalks um a couple of them have approached our department about repairs and things of that nature and in looking at that we realize that we don't have a definition that um meets what's currently out there um so we want to uh kind of bring these structures into conformance by creating a definition that will meet what currently exists okay is it also in preparation for the living Shoreline Boardwalk it will it will work for that as well yes right any other questions for Mary Ellen I I have a question could this definition change and any way change our relationship or our arrangements with lands in and mansions with their responsibility to maintain those boardwalks there I don't believe so now to make sure and it would allow them to I know the one at Land's End has been torn down and they're planning a new one and this would still allow them to reconstruct correct Yes actually that's that's kind of what triggered us looking into this was the discussions with them all right any other questions thank you um I will entertain a motion I move to approve and and schedule ordinance ing on April 16th 2024 second it's been moved in second in do we have any um comments or further discussion all right thank you for putting this together do we have any public comment is it Amy Dennis hello hello my name is Amy Dennis I'm a student at St Petersburg College in the public policy program and we're learning about analyzing policy my address is 1307 Crossbow Lane Tarpon Springs Florida 34689 I'm here to speak to agenda item J2 thank you for allowing me to speak on this topic today I met with Mary Ellen Edwards to gain a better understanding of this topic and after speaking with her I think the definition of a boardwalk should be established I feel it is important because some of the existing Boardwalk structures do not meet the current criteria for the definition of a dock currently the definition of a dock is the only reference for Boardwalk Boardwalk repairs without a definition for a boardwalk the existing boardwalks have no guide for repair and it is important to have that guide for safety reasons and to suggest alternative methods of repair other than pilings reducing the number of pilings will protect the water quality and the Sea Life lastly it will benefit the community by providing them with a safe place to gather and to access the water plus bring more traffic to surrounding businesses thank you for your time thank you all right do we have any other public comment all right hearing none um we'll do a roll call please I commissioner Min I commissioner dicki I commissioner Toth yeah I near Payne I all right um next is item j3 first reading and public hearing on ordinance 20243 amending section 3-4 proximity of establishments to church or School Exception by removing the 50 room requirement for hotels from the exception and amending section 68-4 184 accessory uses in hot motels or hotels by removing the 50 room requirement from the incidental services and clarifying alcoholic beverage establishments for accessory uses in motels or hotels okay ordinance 20 24-3 an ordinance of the city city of Treasure Island Florida amending section 3-4 proximity of establishment to church or School Exception by removing the 50 room requirement for hotels from the exception amending section 68- 484 uses in motels or by removing the 50 room requirement from incidental services and clarifying alcoholic beverage establishments for accessory uses in motels or hotels providing for severability providing for conflict providing for cation providing alen so um um chapter 68 of section 68 484 states that incidental Services used in conjunction with motels or hotels including cigar and Candy stands restaurants and lounges personal service shops and similar uses um maybe per pered by special exception provided they have at least 50 rooms um so we spent a decent amount of time evaluating that 50 room requirement to see where that came from and from what we were able to find it traes back to like 1920s 40s liquor laws um that have been amended over time um and changed a little bit I think right now it's it's um for certain type of licenses you have to have I think it's 5 50 50,000 residents or 100 rooms in the county um so that 40s one has changed over time um there's also a chapter 79 554 laws of Florida um that had a limitation on uh hotels in pelis County um but there was some research and consultation done with uh the county attorney's office and it was determined that that law is is no longer in effect so there's no no conflict with that special act either um so we kind of determined that that room that uh 50 room requirement is outdated and since it's associated with liquor laws that are regulated by um the Florida Department of Business and Professional Regulation uh the division of alcoholic beverages and tobacco um it really doesn't need to be in our regulations because it's it's already regulated by them and essentially what it does is it it doesn't allow hotels of less than 50 rooms to have personal services or like a small cafe or or a restaurant if they have the the the um the space to do it so um we're kind of recommending that that 50 room requirement be removed from that okay we have any questions um my question ining the the change to the code so we're striking out um in section 68 484 um section A we're striking out the 50 unit part of the conditions but the second condition is that not more than 10% of the total floor area within the building shall be so used is there a reason that that is in there I mean that seems equally as restrictive as the the 50 room rule so and conceptually if someone order to build in order to have a 3,000 ft restaurant in their hotel they would have to have a 30,000 ft building I see what you're saying I mean it's been in there since this section was put into place probably back in I think it was in the 60s I think is when when this went in um Katherine do you know answer that just reason for asking is because the part of the intent in modifying this is to allow a hotel to to have a restaurant in their in their hotel and I mean to me it doesn't I don't really care if the hotel is it consists of five rooms on top of a restaurant on the whole second floor like I don't if if that's the model that they want to go with and they can have economic viability with that model I don't really see why we would restrict that um so I think the origin of that was that would with the 20 squ foot exception where you could have that without having that count towards your square footage that would be allocated to the restaurant versus um it's part of the density calculation so I'm not sure that the way we have it crafted at the moment is quite what we were intending to do what was to leave that 200 square foot exemption that would not use part of the density of the not clear on that were were two areas and and one of them was the 200 square foot thing which is very very small and that's just available somebody as a matter of right not involved not Tak away from Nority Rao we may is what is starting to sound to me like we we had intended to eliminate all of those barriers and so if we didn't do that properly we will fix it did you have a question yeah I think that's the proper approach is to fix it and then bring it back because you've got two conflicting statements you got one that says 10% you've got another one that says not more than 200 well there there is a difference between those two so the the not more than 10% is by special exception that goes to the Planning and Zoning the 200 square feet is just permanent as a as it's just allowed they're allowed to have 200 square feet and it doesn't have to go to Planning and Zoning so that's the difference in those two so they don't really conflict one has to go to pnz for approval and the other is just it's just part of their site plan 200 sare fet is just part of the site plan correct it's Exempted from going to the pnz as a special exception thank you would everyone does everyone have the same sentiment that that 10% rule isn't really necessary I agree what would the process from here be to change that would it need to go back to LPA or Planning and Zoning or could we amend that would you like more time to kind of make sure that that doesn't have any unintended consequences I mean I can tell you that we've advertised this for first reading so and that change would be of substance we would probably need to re advertise it at but I would want see what do we yeah what do we need to make a motion to table it or no you don't need to make a motion either way I think I me other than that I guess you could you given direction as to how to change it so we'll bring it back to you evaluated ready consideration sounds good um do you have any questions for us so just and honestly I think you may be able to even just eliminate all of the conditions well that's what I was going to say if we're looking at one two and three and I've been talking to a developer who may have two separate buildings because it says it shall be in the main building and I don't really see a purpose to that right yeah okay is everyone okay with that yeah no condition so basically it'll just say um it is permitted at a restaurant or a um bar essentially is permitted as allowed in the zoning District by special exception of the Planning and Zoning Board no condition all right um I will open it up to public comments since we have this on the agenda if there's anybody that wants to weigh in on this all right here no public comment we'll go ahead and um we'll move on so thank you next is item j4 which is approved two Grant amendments for the Treasure Bay living Shoreline project good evening mayor and Commissioners I will be Stacy Bo's Voice tonight no no just answer answer question just answer all right um this is just a little administrative housekeeping on the two grants for uh the living Shor line on Treasure bit the two uh the city entered into two grant grant agreements for the Treasure Bay uh Shoreline project it was the uh Treasure Bay SRO program Grant which uh its effective date is June 16 2020 the first minut effective date was December 4th 2021 which provides a total of 202,00 $1,099 to go towards a project design construction of the first 50 feet of the living Shore 500 I'm sorry feet of living I'm sorry getting whispered in the a um provides construction of the first 500 feet of living Shoreline Pond restoration and educational signage the other Grant is a resilient Florida Grant and its effective date is June 23rd 2023 which provides a total of 1.49 million towards design and construction of the living Shoreline burm boardwalk and restoration P of ponds uh the Strategic P plan re re relevance uh is to proactively maintain and improve infrastructure that meets the future needs of the city this was a part of our strategic plan due to the extensive permitting duration a no cost time extension is needed to the grant agreement provided by the Tampa Bay estro program in addition to extending the task deadlines the Second Amendment redistributes task funding but does not change the total funds being provided the Florida Department of Environmental Protection resilient Florida Grant First Amendment the amendment does not change change the task requirements or the funding provided it provides updates to the standard terms and conditions which are listed below I can go ahead and read all these thank you no thank you at this time no funds are required uh I move to approve the that's our part never mind um yeah two motions uh also we'll take any questions okay do we have any questions I just wanted to clarify the date on the first page where it says resilient Florida Grant it says an effective date of June 23rd 2033 I don't believe it's it's 23 I think it's actually 2022 and I caught that yeah it's 2023 2022 because we 2022 yeah I looked at the right it was signed in 202 it wasn't 33 22 okay any other questions um I have a few if no one else does um so specifically on the um Amendment to the resilient Florida Grant there's a list of those changes it sounds like most of them are pretty just kind of boiler plate changes to the agreement but I noticed that the name one of them is a name change for the project and it calls it the instead of the Treasure Bay project it calls it the Treasure Island Bay project project is that intentional or is that it says in the whereas is it says the um project title shall here and after change from Treasure Bay living Shoreline and resiliency project to the Treasure Island bay living Shoreline and resiliency project I don't know if maybe it was supposed to be just Treasure Island living Shoreline and resilienc project yeah that's funny we were looking at technical changes that we didn't notice the name do you see is that an issue or okay um and then in attachments see so in that same document the addendum to the resilient Florida Grant in section in attachment 1 a section 25 where it references um investing in America does that section apply to us which section did you say um investing in America it was in one a so attachment 1 a section [Music] 25 um the terms that are included here are terms that you would be help I was just I assume that there's some like boiler plate language in here that doesn't necessarily applied our project so this was a um grantee of an award for construction projects in whole or in part by the bipartisan infrastructure law or the inflation reduction act our project isn't funded by that right and then I think awarded and in attachment to it talks about retainage can you explain whether there if there's what that concept is and whether that has any implications I think it's just saying that it's not required practice it is right so there have been a lot of bills that come out recently with regard to retainage so generally when a local government does any kind of construction project you have a certain level of retainage um that you hold back on that project um until they've met substantial completion and then there's now the law is is then there's a list that can be created and you can return any retainage beyond that this is just saying that under the grant they're not having a requirement that um for retainage so when we bid that project it would be in accordance with um the current law and what our practices are with regard to attage all right so there's no retainage required but we could incorporate that if we wanted to yes um there's another reference to the SE level impact projection study requirement for that the S slip okay so is that included in the project cost already we do it in house we do it in house okay great and then in attachment 6A it references the vulnerability assessment and that being a requirement of the project have we so for this particular project our application referenced the watered management plan which we were able to use adjacent properties to demonstrate the vulnerability of the site but going forward it is becoming a hard fast requirement that you meet the state's vulnerability assessment protocol in order to qualify for resil Florida funding this again was one of those ones that was awarded prior to that criteria being establish but if we're amending the agreement to reference that it says for all planning Grant agreements the grantee must submit exhibit I vulnerability assessment compliance checklist certification with the final Grant deliverables this is so we have a planning Grant with the state um this is a implementation Grant so the planning grade that we have under resilient florid is to develop the vulnerability assessment this is a implementation okay so that section doesn't okay it's not a planning it's not a planning Grant okay all right those are my technical questions I have some overarching questions that commissioner minning started to hint at just about the Treasure Bay project in general so um and Gary already touched on them a little bit just but just so he can have a status update on the project the we're only waiting on one more permit right for the for this project to move for the yes and no um so we've gotten um we have a permits from the county um from the state which we permitted through Swift line they are waiting on the division of State lands D to sign over a boundary line agreement the Army Corps has indicated months ago that they're ready to provide us the permit but they have to wait on the state so really we're being held up by what seems to be a technicality at the division of State lands and Jen drafted a a note to them today to explain our positioning in that which not only affects our project but many other living projects so what are we yeah what are we doing about that to push this along okay so the first thing I did was reach out to um our contact at State lands who we deal with on a poost of different projects um and that's Brad Richardson and uh we wrote kind of a lengthy email expressing what our concerns were hist of the project how all of the other permitting was done also with regard to what appears to be their concern um the fact that there are numerous other projects that have been permitted um regardless of that concern and providing additional information and kind of ending it with let us know if you need anything else or you should conferm it um and he acknowledged the receipt of it and asked that we give him a week or two to digest and discuss so like I said there was a a good bit of information that was provided arguably I would say that that information had been provided before just in a different format um and so at this point we're waiting on state okay so he asked for a couple weeks to review one to two one to two weeks okay so by our next commission meeting we should be able to have a better update or hopefully have that them signed it well yes okay all right and that's just for the living Shoreline are we do we have any grants that or any permits that are outstanding that we need to get for the golf course or that will all be able to be once we if we go out to bid on it that'll be some that we just permit in internally um and are we going is the plan to move forward with the living Shoreline independently of the golf course or we still trying to I know at some point we were trying to really time those together but at this point are we just going to we move forward with the living Shoreline as soon as those permits are ready we're ready to move forward it's really the living sheline of okay so what's the next step on the golf course is just to publish the invitation to bid yep so we're going to have asay launch is a decision that you all would make the trail is a separate one so anytime we have a grant it's best practice to schedule because it makes tracking of that Grant much simpler and cleaner and it gives you all the opportunity if something comes over and something doesn't decision of what you okay so it all be one invitation to bid with the shoreline and the golf course and those are all required submitt on the bid so in order to be a responsive bidder you respond on all of them and the design team on both ends have identifyed contractors that could perform as a team to overlap that work we' started to reach out to those folks interested in B it's the most cost effective way to do it um it takes a lot of liability of work performing um multiple contractors on one site should minimize construction duration you choose to okay um do we foresee that it's will there are contractors out there that will be responsive yeah we we um we've had this conversation as soon as you all told us to go forward with the design of the golf course that was a conversation that we had with the full team together looked at qualifications and how it would overlap when you really when it comes down to it a lot of it is Earth moving work on both sides mhm so they're going to have some specializations in there um but it would be a team type of response to a bit okay um so so we are waiting on the so we're ready to go with the golf course it's really the living Shoreline so once we have that per last or that permit once we get some movement with State lands then we should be able to pretty quickly get out an invitation to bid out they've already even done the advertisement there's a 21-day public advertisement requirement notification and responses for the boundary line agreement and that's already all been done in everything so it's really ob' been in the loop during the process so it's coming out of nowhere we should have been out to okay any other questions I was gonna ask just ask a question I had recall somewhere hearing that we are on some kind of deadline as far as the grants are concerned that if we don't start the work by a certain date we risk losing those grants is that still I understand that correctly so the Estuary program Grant does expire at the end of this month which is um what the agendum is doing for us here ising that out so it's giving us that time that we need thank you so the responses that uh will will come into the bid package can be submitted individually no to be a responsive bidder they must respond to all of the because that's how you achieve the um the nonoverlap if you want to pursue both projects and you get the most cost reduction benefit by grouping it as one project but we could move forward with only select parts of the bid if we want it so we'll we'll have an idea of what each one of those parts of the project would cost but if we if the cost of the golf course is so high that we want to scratch that part we can not accept that one and still move forward with the living Shoreline that is correct so when the bids come in we then select the lowest bid right the sum total of all four of them so everybody had it's unresponsive if you don't put one of them in there right unresponsive so all of them come together you get that cost and then you bring it to you and you you go down the list and you go I want to do one three four or whatever it is and you select what you want to do at that point so if some of it doesn't match up with what we think it's going to be then you can cancel it do we not if we proceed along that line do we not lose the advantage that you have just stated uh of a onetime mob demob that is correct suppose the uh living Shoreline we didn't just for example didn't didn't approve it um so how does that figure into the m and M cost well it'll be based upon the percentage of the total so if their mobilization for the total project is $1 million and we only did one three and four you take one three and four add them up put the percentage which let's say is 75% that's your mobilization cost that's included in the documents each individual when they when we traditionally do bids like this you have a bid project and then you have the bid alternates and so the bid alternates should stand on their own as the alart menu for you all to choose from and so in determining who's the lowest bidder you'll look at all you know they'll evaluate all of them and whoever has the lowest bid will be the lowest bidder which will be brought before you um and then you can choose which Scopes you want to actually move forward with and what are the four um aspects I said there is actually much more than four you have the first 500 feet of Shoreline which is permit or Grant separately you have the ponds which are granted separately the trail which is a separate Grant have the kayak launch which could be a take it or leave it on your end if you want to pursue the kayak launch um and then the other portion of the living Short Line so it's quite complicated but it's not uncommon for projects where we have multiple elements and it doesn't even have to be a grant funded project it could be you have multiple Enterprise or non-enterprise funds that are intermixed to fund a project you want to account for those discreetly so it's not uncommon okay and a lot of it schedules okay and one of those will also be the golf course will be its own one Golf Course will be its own is that clear to everyone how that's going to work with the seems skeptical okay um that answers my questions thank you any other questions well I'll wait and see how it comes in that's one of the reasons why we did it this way also it's IND individually it's Grant based then it's where the money is going so that you guys can pick and choose so when it so when it comes in I can just take the total bid price all projects together and I can assign a percentage uh to each of those of the total and that's equivalent to the percentage of mob and deob each of project will have a line item in each bid schedule no well typically when we do one lumpsum project that is how it is but each each individual bid schedule will have a line item for mobilization okay thank you sorry you'll be able to pick off a menu That's was my impression but I got confused with yeah well that was because of the voice okay um so we have two motions before us in the um memo so I'll entertain the first motion motion for the um D permit I move to approve the First Amendment to the contract 22 fp8 with the Florida Department of Environmental Protection okay it's been moved in second do we have any further commission discussion any public comment on the D resilient Florida Grant Amendment that's fine sure shuning thir Street East treasure is um I didn't think much of of this particular um agenda item because I know it has to do with permitting and things like that and grants and what have you but I have heard some things up here that I I just have to speak up about I've done I'm a professional engineer I have constructed somewhere around three 400 Acres wor landfills in my life I us to work for Waste Management I buil transfer stations recycling centers all kinds of things and I want everybody to understand something M demob does not mean what you think it means what describe contractors use that particular line item on their bids to vat up up front do that so that they have money coming in for cash FL purposes so it does not if you had a bid say a million dollar bid and it150 mobilization it does not cost them $150,000 to put on trucks cyle that is not what's going on um so that's that's a a misnomer also I want to remind everybody that when we talked about the golf course before um that we were going to get a cost estimate for demand cost estimate uh so that we could figure out whether we go any further and spend any more money and spend any more effort not what's going on here now here today so that's very disappointing to me as well um so um and as far as permits go um you know Swift Mud and things like that they're they're very specific to what you're going to build so it seems to me like we're we're again going down this path that where the camel's nose is going a little bit further underneath tent before we've all really decided what this thing might cost in the future that's one thing I like to talk about number two the last time I was here uh I told you I have a lot of experience with building motorial shelves particular um Wetland mitigation and actually building ws and um I love the living Shoreline idea I think it's a great thing but I just want to again caution you that you you should get a second set of eyes on this because Mother Nature you can't control it and I've seen wonderful projects spent hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of ,000 building Acres of wetlands and shorelines and stuff like that are destroyed like that so I don't know who's in charge of the longterm maintenance of this thing but again I support it just take the time and get second or third set of eyes and make sure that what is designed and what is built as built proper and make sure that a contractor has some some responsibility and accountability to make the church done that thank you for your time okay thank you any other public comment okay hear none any further commission discussion I just wanted to com like address what you mentioned about the cost estimates we do have cost estimates on this so the the next step in this process was that we were going out to bid and we're going to evaluate what the bid price was and at that point we will make a decision on whether or not to move forward with the with the golf course so that was that's what I've communicated to the public those are the conversations that I've had and what has been um stated up here so I just wanted to clarify that um any other comments all right uh roll call please vice mayor doctor hi commissioner minning hi commissioner dicki hi commissioner Toth hi mayor Payne hi all right I'll entertain the next motion for the Tampa Bay estro program Grant I move to approve the the Second Amendment to the contract with Tampa Bay Estuary program okay any further commission discussion on the tbep grant okay any public comment all right hearing none roll call please vice mayor doctor hi commissioner minning hi commissioner Dicky hi commissioner Toth hi mayor Payne hi all right thank you everyone um next item is J 5 authorized the city manager to sign contract renewals with applied sciences Consulting trans systems and Stant for as needed Civil Engineering Services and authorized the city manager's purchase Authority in the total of amount of $60,000 for applied sciences Consulting trans systems and stantech for fiscal year 2024 um so for this item uh the city entered in into a professional service contract with um trans systems uh it was cardino at the time now stanch and applied sciences in 2018 um they were selected through the RFQ process and each contract had a duration of five years um which included the option to provide up to three one-year extensions uh to those contracts um the three firms were selected so we had a stability for multiple um Engineers to use um they provide as needed civil engineering reviews and inspection services for subdivisions site plans site mods and permit submissions and um there are additional services that they can offer outlined in the contracts such as um surveying surveying I think mapping Environmental Services other items that the city may need throughout the fiscal year um the majority I wouldn't say the majority but a portion of these fees um are actually collected through the permitting process so we collect a portion uh that's allowed through our fee schedule um for the engineering reviews that they do for our permit applications in CDD um so we were looking to renew these contracts with these three Engineers um through believe it's 2026 so we're we're recommending that we take the three one-year extensions and combine them into one so we have time um because to go back out through the RFQ process would take some time um and then we're um asking for uh the city manager um purchasing Authority for these and I think it's important to note this money is in the budget currently um so it's it's we're not asking for anything that's not already in the budget um we're just looking for the authority to spend and I guess it's up to if we think of one one of the engineers is going to exceed 25,000 then we need the purchasing Authority for that okay any questions just to clarify just because the money is in the budget doesn't mean it has to be spent I agree I was just letting you know that it it is in there especially the new that's not an automatic understood I was just saying that it is it is per currently in the budget I was just saying I wasn't asking for more money and do we know how much was spent last year on these Services I did pull the numbers and from for the fiscal last fiscal year it was like 42,000 and have the rates um gone up or the rates all the same they have gone up um so the the initial rates were in 2018 and now we have new rate sheets for um for this contract and they uh the way we did the contract they're for the term of the contract the new rates we run through 2026 okay and do those increases seem reasonable what were the yeah they're all consistent across the board with the three three engineers and with the inflation over five years now I think they're consistent also with what's going on in the marketplace okay any other questions all right I'll entertain a motion then I move to approve and authorize the city manager to sign contract extensions with applied scientists Sciences Consulting Inc trans systems and Stant for as needed Civil Engineering Services and authorize the city manager purchase Authority for up to $60,000 for ongoing Civil Engineering Services with applied sciences Consulting Inc trans systems and stantech Inc for the fiscal year of 2024 it's been moved in seconded do we have any further commission discussion we started this contract in 28 cories correct remember was for that um we do recoup some of the costs from the permitting it's put back in so it's not a total f000 right of remembering approving the companies when we search through them so depending on whether it's a project that's for a um someone externally applying that would be charged to their permit fee right if this is something that we had to correct do because of someone applying for a permit but we also may use these services for certain things that are internal to the like a city project right and not just CDD it could be used by any Department in the city so so that's why the funding comes from either the general fund or could potentially come from the building fund if it's for a project relating to someone who's come in for a permit right yes any other comments all right any public comment sure yes they have moved so everything has I think they're actually out in the hallway Jing 11253 Street um I I certain as a civil engineer I certainly understand a city needs to have a civil engineers on staff you know things come up and what have you I think the concern that um that I and others um that you talking to recently is the concern is is that when you do this and you have a pot of money you know how do you really control that to make sure that it's being focused on things that is really necessary and important to the city and the direction the city wants to go so that's part of it number two I think the increase um is questionable because we're not you know I I know there's inflation but um I know that my salary is not going up and um so I question that that that amount I haven't done the math but it sounds like it's somewhere between 20 and 30% increase so you know maybe something less than that would be more reasonable and how do you monitor to make sure it's being applied to the right types of projects that's that's my comments thank you for your time okay thank you can I address that for just a second please sure uh because what Mr chuny is saying is is accurate to a point uh this $660,000 provides us Engineering Services that we do not have on staff we don't have an engineering department we've got a public works department that happens to have an engineering it but we do not have an engineering firm so this is a capability we couldn't buy a single engineer for $60,000 a year and so this for a couple of different reasons is why we're ready we do this one is we can scale it up and scale it down depending on the volume of work uh and then second of all it is over time less expensive because we don't have to hire people train them and lay them off when we don't have that as to this point about managing this money we manage this money on a monthly basis uh and they talk to me about why it is that we're spending and what it is we're spending it on so there is QA QC on where this is going and why it's going okay thank you any other public comment Carlos hi my name is Carlos murl uh I live at 10231 Tarpin drive and um just this facility is beautiful really uh really pleasure to be here and I love the Muro the uh that Treasure Island Historical Society did a great job um and so I'm speaking in regards to this oh by the way uh uh vice mayor doctor congratulations and uh commissioner Dicky congratulations um but um I'm speaking in regards to this uh and and I I know that the um the budgeting Authority and and the uh the uh the commission's uh responsibility over the fiscal uh health of the of the city is very important it's really basically the the primary responsibility that you all have and I know that uh you're checking to see how much time I have thank you coming in and I I I I I know that you'll take the your that responsibility very seriously Mr Min I I very much appreciate you saying that if the money's in the budget we don't necessarily have to spend it um so in regards to this particular um thing the cost is as I understand it is um 60,000 and and I have to leave immediately so I won't be able to stay for the entire discussion I apologize for that but the cost is $60,000 for the current fiscal year but the request is to reinstate the contracts through November 2026 so the question I I had doesn't necessarily need to be but hopefully the Commissioners will will have it answered is um um so it's a three-year U renewal process right through November 2026 and then three one-year renewal periods that mean $60,000 will be you know will be coming back each year for an additional $60,000 fiscal 2024 $60,000 so I guess what I'm asking is 2025 is there going to be another $60,000 requested and so forth and so on um and then it mentioned that the costs are are paid in part through review fees for for the applicants permits and development applications just wondering what percentage of that of that cost is paid by those fees U is it 10% is it 90% that would be you know a question I would have and I know that the Commissioners take that fiscal responsibility very very seriously and I'm sure that you all would would be be interested in knowing that if you don't know it already thank you so much for the opportunity to talk in this beautiful space and Mr Mayor is always pleasure to to see you priding and and uh Mr brunck uh thank you so much for all you do for your city we we all appreciate it that thank you perfect thank you all right um to address some of those concerns um I believe you're correct that it would be while it's a multi-year contract we'll have to do this every year because we have to approve the spending Authority every year just as we do with every other vendor um so while it's multi-year we will approve it each year I think that covers the we can find that percentage what for what and okay sounds good just a comment the um it's it's a double whammy here as part of this we're approving the contracts to 2026 but we're only approving your authorization city manager authorization for one year that is correct okay come back okay um any further public comment all right hearing none roll call please vice mayor doctor hi commissioner Min hi commissioner dicki hi commissioner Toth hi mayor pay I all right um on to item J six our last agenda item which is appointment of City commissioners to local boards yes the City commissioners are appointed annually to represent the city on various local boards um following uh the swearing in of a new Commissioners so for your consideration and discussion Commissioners um appointments um we have the barment council so Big C we have the G beaches public library um and we have the pelis co the Continuum of Care we have the Sun Coast League of cities and the Tampa Bay Regional planning Council and also Treasure Island and Madera Beach Chamber of Commerce so for your consideration and uh discussion okay thank you all right well we will how about we just open it up to start um who is interested in doing what I can I'm GNA kind of wipe the Slate clean for you guys actually because I so I currently serve on the big SE um as the primary representative and I have done that for three years um and I am ready to step away from that and turn that over to somebody else if they would like to um I think it's a great group mostly Mayors um but there are some other cities like clear water who have appointed other people from their commission to be on there um it's a great learning experience um I just think three years I've I've done enough of it I also am by function of being the mayor I have access to the I'm a member of the pel county mayor's Council as well so um I'm also going to be I put my name in the Hat for the tourist Development Council through the mayor's Council they get to appoint someone to that so that'll be voted on at the April meeting I'm hopeful that I'll be able to Garner some support for that but um I have a lot of boards that I serve on and I am kind of trying to streamline a little bit and open up some opportunities for you guys so with that being said I would be happy to serve as an alternate for some of these boards but I'm going to open them all up to for you guys to um take your pickup not just Big C but I I don't need to be representative on on any of these so who's interested in doing what start with a vice mayor I'd be interested in serving on the big sea and the Treasure Island de Beach Chamber is everyone okay with that or is anyone else interested in The Big C right there none um I'll I'll do the I'll be the alternate for that if that's and how about the gulf Beach's Public Library all right I'm also interested in the Continuum of Care I need a little Clarity on when they meet first Friday of every other month then I could do that that be great any everyone okay with that okay and and the sunos league of cities and just as a reminder for this one since I'm the I'm a past president of the Sunco League of cities so by virtue of that I will always have as long as I'm in elected office I'll have a vote um as a delegate of the sunos league of City so I will stay involved in that but it um if we have another appointee as our designate we'd have two votes in anything that they do so is anyone interested in sunos League of cities I would be interested in that I think you're good with passing that off it's a great learning experience so I think that would be a wonderful way to it's a great way to learn um about what other cities do and commissioner Toth and I participated in the Florida League of cities Institute for elected Municipal officials um which is kind of uh so Florida League of cities is the larger umbrella over the Sun Coast League of cities so I encourage you to look into that they do like a weekend course um somewhere around the state and it it gives you the groundwork for everything that you need to know about municipal government it's a really great program in Orlando year it was on the East Coast last year um is anyone interested in being an alternate for that um and the Tampa Bay Regional planning Council you to do that too yeah yeah I'd certainly like to do that one too I'll stick on his alternate okay when do they meet I can find out and get back to the primary and the alternate know that I had do you mind if I serve as the alternate not yeah because I have to take a Le thanks all right I think that covers everything um anything that we missed there's not there's not an alternate for uh treasure the Chamber of Commerce I don't think it requires one do you ever I I think that's a that's also a function of their bylaws so I don't think they allow us to point altern I would assume their bylaws probably require that the person voting be there um do we need an alter do need an alternate for the library please thank you to our city manager for sitting in for me on Monday it's really grateful I have no alternate I'm gonna do some targeted Outreach on that one and try to see if we can I can recruit someone so I will let's leave that one open and we'll see what we can drum up if we can't find anyone I backing you up we bud sorry we do vote on the budget so it would be a discussion with the budget oh yeah so two people on yeah from the public well let's let's get to recruiting that's fine all right well I will entertain mayor I'm sorry for the Tampa Bay Regional Planning Commission they actually meet on the second Monday at 10:00 so let me just make sure I got this correct so the Barrier Island government Council The Big C we have the vice mayor as the representative and mayor as mayor pay as the alternate GF Beach is public library and then the citizen representative once we we get them okay the pelis Continuum of Care will be commissioner Toth and there's no alternate okay and then we have Sun Coast League of cities that's commissioner dicki with um vice mayor Dr as the alternate and the Tampa Bay Regional planning Council again commissioner dicki and the alternate is Mayor Payne and then for the Treasure Island and madira Beach Chamber we have vice mayor doctor with no alternate perfect you want to make a motion to approve as she just read off sure little easier for you I I move to appoint the City Commissioner was just listed by the city clerk for the board's year of 2024 second and I my one request is that we make these effective on April 1st as we do have a big c meeting tomorrow morning um so I would like to go to that and um let everyone know that I'll be passing the reins off to vice mayor doctor all right um we have any further comments or debate any public comment all right roll call please vice mayor doctor hi commissioner Min hi commissioner Dicky hi commissioner Toth hi May pay hi all right thank you very much um with that we'll adjourn our regular meeting and um we'll reconvene in about five minutes for our Workshop e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e all right welcome back everyone this is the Board of Commissioners Workshop meeting for March 26 2024 we'll go ahead and get started with our city manager and City attorney reports I don't have a report this evening okay I've got a a couple most of which two of which two of the three have been already talked about before one is the April 2nd ribbon cutting second is the April 13th Treasure of the Island community appreciation day and then the last one I know I've talked to you all and we've mentioned it before uh in this meeting but I want to just reinforce to everybody that that lateral project on Gulf Boulevard starting tomorrow and uh and we it's explained to we're limiting theot to 300t to minimize the disruption in traffic we're going to be starting on the south side we believe that by the time we get to where we expected to be the biggest problem which is up by 112th that spring break will have passed it's going to take us a couple of weeks to get there so because the contractor was unable to get all of the supplies that he needed in order to project off we've been delayed about a week and a half which is actually going to end up serving in our best interest because it's going to take it out of the heat of you said you're starting on the south side where specifically and what what will happen on that go from one lane two lanes to one lane so um when we say on the south side we're going to go from 99th to 112th but we're going to start on the south side and move our way North okay so it's going to be about 350 feet of MOT one lane is going to be uh closed down and it will be on the southbound lane most of the work is going to be on the southbound lane which helps us out because it's it doesn't get clogged up as bad once we get closer to 107th and 112th you have the stop lights or you have the signal lights those are going to cause us a little bit of problems but I believe we can get through it it's going to be in the South Side so we come up here we're looking at it probably 30 to 90 second delays because it's only 350 feet right so you can't really back up too much till you get to lights once lights start to happen now you have the light each light is about 60 seconds so you have to add that on to theot right so if we're at 30 to 60 seconds and you have a 60c light you're two and a half minutes so that is the area that we're going to be looking at causing the most problems we're going to do that at the end of the project so as we progress we're going to go 350 feet once we finish that we're going to move North 350 feet we're going to move North 350 ft the reason why I say 350 ft is we have to have 50 ft to get everybody over and the length of a the manholes are 300t so once we get past that I have to have that whole 350 blocked off because we have um we have the um we have the truck the vac truck and then also the truck that actually puts the uh the liner inside but that will be done in the that one southbound lane on the outside Lane and I think we can get all that done um in the next you know I believe that it will be done in six weeks has this been communicated on the on the Treasure Island website yes and the newsletter as well all of our yeah and we've been doing it yeah the date the date has changed a little bit but the the duration is not so we didn't start two weeks ago so it's just gonna get pushed two weeks all thank you okay any other questions on that is that the end of your report the end of my all right thank you all right um on our discussion items we just have one item which is discuss the Paradise Island landscaping project scopes okay bad meeting for Stacy to not have a voice I'm going to do the reading and she's gonna do the answering okay okay this is the just a discussion item uh we're going to discuss the Paradise Island landsc landscaping project scope Paradise Boulevard me Ian a Paradise Island resident with professional experience in vegetation maintenance for power companies raised concerns to the former mayor a former city manager regarding the paradise Boulevard Palm Trees interfering with the power lines staff has also had concerns about the frequent failures of the old irrigation system within the median areas in September 2023 the city commission approved a work authorization and spending Authority with half Associates Inc in the amount of $ 76,6 6838 for landscape architect services for Paradise Boulevard mediums and the shoulder areas along the west Causeway from Paradise Boulevard to the West Causeway Bridge according to our ground maintenance supervisor foxel Palms around 12 feet in total height were planted along the medians of paradise Boulevard approximately 12 years ago today today they are growing into the overhead communication and Power power lines the lower lines are about 17 ft High Duke Energy has been known to cut off the tops of palm trees during vegetation maintenance or to resolve issues in July 2023 City staff contacted the vegetation management division at Duke Energy to request their analysis of the paradise Boulevard medium palm trees and this was their response some Palms are going to be actively burning in the lines in the next 6 months and others probably have another 5 years before they touch the lines when reliability issue start is probably somewhere in between that time frame in January 2024 the city reached out to a couple of Palm Tree Brokers to see if they had any interest in purchasing the fox tail palms on Paradise Boulevard or removing them for free one company said they had no interest in the palms and another said they might might be interested in taking maybe four or five of them for free there are 33 double fox tail palms on on Paradise Boulevard and six singles which were doubles at one point there were three other doubles that were cut down due to disease in the past there are also a few cabbage Palms within the median Paradise Lane and treasure Lane the reestablishment of a drainage swell was planned on the North north side of West Causeway shoulder from Paradise Boulevard to the West Bridge which would require that the existing bottle brush trees be removed and the irrigation be replaced additionally residents contacted the former city manager requesting new Landscaping along Paradise Lane and treasure Lane to fit this project into the Landscaping budget staff proposed a simple design that could be added and uh added to in the future in January 2024 a public engagement meeting was held to vote on plans that were proo proposed for the paradise Boulevard medians following this meeting several concerns were raised about the removal of the palm trees a door hanger was provided to all Paradise Island residents requesting Landscaping feedback in mid-February a summary of the feedback received and the votes from the engagement meeting are provided um as attachment a the split results for the voting was palm trees votes at 15 other trees at 14 during the engagement process the paradise Boulevard uh during the engagement process for Paradise Boulevard several comments were also received about the proposal to reestablish the drainage swell along Paradise Lane the complaints centered around the aesthetic appearance of the depressed areas and the length of time that storm waterers held Within in the areas after prolonged rain events project Alternatives in lie of moving forward with the Rel Landscaping of the paradise Boulevard medians with vegetation that can be maintained lower than the utility lines one option is to Simply replace the irrigation and any impacted grass while maintaining all the landscape components this alternative recognizes the request to keep the palm trees within the median medians although the Palms will continue to grow into the lines and may present issues in the future if this option or another option is preferred staff will generate will renegotiate the scope of work under the work authorization with the landscape architect in this instance a revised project scope with the landscape architect would come back before the commission for review and approval additionally if any if a greater storm water project is preferred along the west Gulf West Causeway I'm sorry staff would propose holding off on the Landscaping along Paradise Lane and treasure Lane at this time staff will present project Alternatives during the fiscal year 25 budget review process this change would also require a vis revision to the work authorization that would come back before the commission review and approval no funding is requested at this time and I'll have Stacy answer any questions okay we have any questions for Stacy let's parse this out into two the two topics which is the paradise Boulevard portion and then the Paradise Lane and treasure Lane so let's start with the paradise Boulevard median do we have any um comments on what was in the report is that a feeder line or is that a main line for the rest of the island where does it start stop it's just for Paradise just for Paradise Island so it won't affect anybody else's electricity Storm Power it by it should not that all um what section was supposed to be undergrounded there wasn't part of paradise that was over on um yach Club Tarin and yeah that was done by Duke Energy uh just the undergrounding that was part of their uh hardening project yeah none of that was supposed nothing on Paradise Boulevard is undergrounded we did calculate what we thought the estimate for undergrounding that was and we're talking about probably 2.5 to3 million and the only reason why I know that is I'm comparing it to golf Boulevard you had mentioned that trees that are problematic right now that they're in the next few months uh that they're likely to uh be a problem with Duke Energy is there are there current plans to take care of those trees right now or are we going to wait for Duke Energy to remove them or remove the tops at least yeah they won't look good so we should um depending on what you all decide tonight if you want to leave the ex trees we would have a contractor come and take care of the ones are problematic now there's about five that are within the high voltage area now um and then there's other few that don't look great that look very unhealthy well the company that volunteered or offered to take four four or five of these off of our hands uh at no charge it seems like those ones that are problematic might be a good one to ask them to go take out yeah those would probably be the hardest for them to remove also but we could ask they weren't honestly thrilled about it they were like maybe we could take a you but we could definitely ask and two-part question would those I'd like to know which ones those are and then where would they be um would they be replaced with smaller palms or would they just be taken out because if it's in a I guess how many you said there's 33 all all the way up and down so um that is just the fox tailes there's 33 doubles six singles where one of the doubles is died yeah um others that have just died over time and it should be noted this is weird but they're actually prone to some kind of a fungus where when it gets in the spores of the soil you can't replace certain types of BS in that same spot um and then there's um a good handful of cabbage BS as well okay um I just don't want to create like an incon consistent look where we're removing those five palm trees so if they're like ideally they're we don't they're we don't have a choice of which ones they are but we just don't want them to be like at an if they're at an end cap or if they're in between two other palm trees can we replace them with something else or can we removal process is more expensive when you do that just because you have to get like the full rot system out it's not just like a stum grinding yeah but we can certainly remove them and replace them okay I'd be curious to hear what the public thinks about that so we'll ask when we get public comment um does everyone I so I'll back up too because personally so I live on Paradise Island and I've grown up there my family's lived on Paradise Island since 1970 um I get the hesitation to remove the palm trees because they're they're the staple it's what you have on the Medan there but if we delay this we're just kicking the can down the road if we're having to remove five of the 33 now or call it 40 and we're going to have to remove more in five years just delaying this problem for a future commission to have to go through the same Agony and discussion in the public that we've gone through over the last several months so I would personally prefer to C us we've already allocated the money I'd prefer us to see move forward with the landscape plan and we we engage the public as best as possible I I understand that it's it's it's a difficult conversation to have and it's something that people are pushing back on on removing the palm trees but I just I don't see it as a a decision we're making we're we're just punting we're just deciding to push this problem down the road it's not we're not coming up with a res solution we already have a solution that's been provided to us so that would be my first preference but I understand if we not comfortable in making that bold of a a decision in the face of some feedback and criticism that we've received for the prospect of taking down those those Palms I think we put together a great packet of options and we voted on them and we had a engagement meeting that several people came to um so if we don't do that I mean I'm okay with moving forward with just this simpler design of removing a couple I just want to make sure that we we definitely need to improve the irrigation and we need to replace some grass because there's dead grass there too there's also several palm trees that are dying in areas that I believe were flooded during Hurricane Adalia and the other storm Adalia in particular we had a lot of water in the road on Paradise Boulevard right in front of the paradise towers and that's where a lot of the grass has died but there's several Palms there that are also turning brown on the Bron so are those included in the ones that are going to be those aren't necessarily the ones that are growing into the line so are we going to remove those do we think that they're going to come back Grounds Maintenance supervisor did recommend removing about the five that are going into the lines now and then about another nine that look unhealthy now we're could have an AR come out and look and see if they believe that those might come back the my sense was that if if you have palm trees there that are that have another five years of life in them and and there's not an urgent need in terms of them interfering with the transmission lines that you that you not necessarily kick the the bottle down the down the road you this is we still have five years of life left and it sounds like the the people that uh live there enjoy those Palms so I I would keep them there until they approach becoming becoming a problem but now with that information so if we have nine additional ones that are dying which aren't necessarily overlapping with the ones going into the trees we're looking at half of them that could potentially need to be taken out I think it might be prudent to have an arborist look at them I don't know how much that costs but yeah so for the fox sales there's 39 um 14 under the 30 you have any thoughts commissioner from Paradise yes um I uh pair what commissioner Dicky just said I don't I am not in favor of removing the palm trees if they've got another five years may be longer um Li ban maybe it's going to be next year if we get another flooding and those trees happen to succumb to um the salt water um but I don't see the urgent need right now to go ahead full boore and then remove good trees take the ones out that are interfering with the with the power lines that are burned as we speak uh if there's ones that have suffered from The Saltwater intrusion um and there's no chance to rehabilitate them okay those can be removed um but the ones that are alive and healthy let them be alive and healthy so do we just cut them down and not put anything back in their place or the ones that would that would would be removed no I mean if you're going to cut them down I mean I think there's a couple Alternatives I was at that meeting where the presentation was made by the arborist as to what the potentials were for filling in if the trees were removed and there's a listing in our packet here of the uh the score card so to speak um and those are in there um you know there was a handful of people um at the meeting and so let's say there's U let's say 10 people were at the uh at the presentation um if we're going to let 10 people dictate what goes in as the replacement we're falling back in the same old trap that we do in that handful of people dictate public policy um that does I don't buy that um so um one of the Alternatives that I hadn't seen considered is put put U Foxdale ponds in there that are only six feet high and how many years do you buy 15 20 would be fairly um limited of where you can place those with because without having eight feet of clear trunk you run into issues with the visibility triangles visibility corridors at the noses of all the medians you just kind of be stuck with the center we're also then setting ourselves up for the same problem once those grow higher then we're just kind of then put something in there that doesn't I iur with that yeah the Christmas Palms seem to be do you know if Christmas Palms are one of the species that can't survive in the area where those diseased ones have been I don't think they can I think they're kind of within that family but I will certainly look that too do you guys have any thoughts um whatever we do put in there it does definitely need to be self tolerant and maybe something nice that would burn a little smaller tree a mytle or something of that sort I believe they're pretty Sal to so that way if we do have a have out putting something in that's going to last a while and not grow Too Tall and okay any thoughts I think that uh what commissioner Dicky has said and commissioner minning has said makes a lot of sense and that's all I have okay um I would like to ask that before we like make a final decision that we see can you doesn't I don't need to do to go to the landscape architect or anything but give me like in an Excel spread sheet format or something like a map of where those Palms are where a Palms have already died or been removed like in each median and which ones specifically are going to be removed identifying the ones that are growing into the power lines and then also the ones that are diseased because I think once we have a visual that will give us a better idea of if we need to replace them with something else or if they create magically create their own little p pattern that doesn't look terrible um so I'd like to ask for that before we I'm good with it sounds like the consensuses to just leave them there but I just want to I think the next decision is do we replace them with something else so I don't know that replacing them with a different type of palm tree is going to create a different aesthetic and a different look very inconsistent but maybe it won't if I see that map I might be able to digress that a little bit better um let's hear Do we have any public comment on the paradise Boulevard portion go with Gary first and then Ray thank you Gary penano 15 treasure Lane when we first embarked on this back in January I said to myself my God we're doing a project right we're going to have the people come in we're going to take a look at it we're going to develop a scorecard we're going to come back take a look at it we haven't seen the scorecard we haven't had a second meeting and we fell back down on our on our butts again doing the same thing of this thing we need to have a follow-up meeting with the residents they owe they deserve a meeting I wonder how many came we deserve another meeting and talk about this thing everything you guys said is true but we need to have them involved in this whether we go forward we don't go forward we keep what we have uh what are we going to fill in because we haven't seen that and I think you owe it to the residents the commission to hold that second meeting what scorecard are you referring we picked a couple uh that's in the packet it's meeting it's on the website too I I haven't seen it so I haven't seen we've looked I haven't seen it anywhere it's in the agenda packet for tonight's Workshop it has been so it has it lists every species and it lists the total number of votes that each one of them received just to I'm I want you to have the opportunity to review it but it is in the packet Tano I'm um I went to there was probably of us a lot of couples probably five of us try to talk into the microphone there were really five of us about okay um I have we've owned this house since 2011 we've never lost power we've had tons of flooding at our house okay not in the inside but we had water this high in our front yard in the back okay we um have salt tolerant plants we have Palms Christmas Palms um we didn't lose any of those okay so but we used our sprinklers a lot so we immediately put water on there to you know make the reactant change they didn't do any of that on Paradise and in the front there I've had the county out a few times to try and address this the mosquito problem that that barrier has had and he told me that is wrong it's wrong the way it was put together so we have a lot of standing water constantly there that high and then we have um mosquitoes and you can ask all my neighbors it's horrible and it's because of that that was built right there and the county pelis has been out spray and they've found beds in places and they said they develop within a few days I complained to the city they told me it wasn't worth my time and it was going to be seven days to two weeks before something like that would happen County doesn't believe that so there's issues with that and I think you guys need to address it I don't think the trees need to be pulled out I have I'm asked for public comment specifically on the paradise Boulevard portion I'm going to come to the we haven't discussed the Treasure Land I'll do the treats the trees I don't think need to come out I've never lost power since I've been there since 2011 never lost power yes there's a few trees that are in the lines but they don't look dead to me so why are we doing anything with them if they come and top them they top them we fix them we put one in and replace it you know if they're disease that's different I had never heard there's been a diseased trees on those Lanes so that's the ones that have already been removed where they're missing those were dis she said nine more yeah have to unhealthy unhealthy okay well I just I don't agree with taking a a good pal out that's my thought okay I just don't agree and I think we need to have more people come and talk about this instead of just making a decision on five couples or 10 people that showed up and that's all that really came well we've tried I I know I know do you have any thoughts on replacing them the ones that are taken out should they be replaced with something else I know that Gary you're still the the beautification person for the civic association hello hello there you go um I agree keeping the trees in to replace them with what I don't know that yet to should we replace them with something or should we oh absolutely and keep it the flow I mean you don't yeah you don't want to pull something out and there's like it's like you know you look at somebody's and they have done work and they to take the tooth out you don't want that to f up in there so let's let's let's make it look nice okay ray do you have something on the paradise Boulevard part okay while he's coming up I just did want to say with regard to the voting our staff did put door hangers and flyers on every single Paradise Island Property we received all that feedback and it's all tally so the people who wanted to have a same air did respond okay so these tallies also don't just include the people that came to the meeting they also incl in people who emailed in their feedback as well okay so I I don't live in Paradise Island obviously but um my uh my wife's stepmother does actually she lives seven try to speak into them okay sorry and um so you know I I I I really wanted to speak on this particular one because I like what I'm hearing which is a common sense logical approach that when one goes out you can put it in so I think the first step would be what are we going to put back in there and my thought is because I go up and down there a lot to go visit her and take care of her she's getting getting up there in age and um um think about a a palm that that has a singular trunk just because of vision nothing else I I have Christmas Palms they did not survive too well they got wet salt and I also have Fox taale terrible it just died right away so just think carefully about that and I'm thinking something with a trunk that you can have good Vision as you're going down the lane you got to turn or whatever it's hard to see people as well that's all I got okay thank you yep you can come just come to the podium and state your name and address yeah hi uh thanks for letting me speak my name is Petra ree I live at eight Island Drive on Paradise Island and um I just wanted to um also voice voice my opinion um I guess I would want to offer two pieces of consideration one is um I also had a palm tree die because of the salt water so I think 5 to 10% of regular replacement of of palm trees in this salty environment are probably normal and just part of maintaining um so take taking some trees out and replacing them I would I would put forth might be just normal maintenance that needs to be expected in this environment and then the second consideration um kind of going back to what my neighbor here said um about power outages I just came down Park Street um which you know all of the uh power lines are covered in trees and I think it's part of the appeal is of covering ugly power poles with trees is what makes the the median really pretty and I feel like there are prob you know if you drive through St Pete there's tons of neighborhoods where there's trees covering the lines and if we haven't had large problems with power outages then you know maybe we can um think about how concerned we need to be about that and I would just um you know appreciate if you all took that into consideration thank you thank you okay so do we do you guys have a good gu on where to go with Paradise B to have that map bring it back to another workshop and then we can kind of make a final decision does that sound good to the rest of the commission okay um now on the Paradise Lane treasure Lane portion um this I think gets a little bit more complicated so the current your suggestion right now is to essentially do nothing right um so we do have that $50,000 in storm water funds um that was planned to go on Paradise Lane West of paradise Boulevard to establish the similar drainage situation that we have on the other side the water is there whether we want it in the roadway or want it on the side of the road is really the decision that we're looking at right now is a shortterm fix the money that we have available in the budget that would require um the removal of the bottle brush trees there because there's Roots um big roots that are growing into that area and that's also where the irrigation system is so if you did want to reestablish that uh drainage feature on that north side of the road we would be removing the trees and um replacing the irrigation system as well so kind of the domino effect there um if we wanted to look at pursuing other um larger storm water options that had a piped outfall where the water would not sit as long um we would plan to look at different project Alternatives and come back to you during our budget process and talk about what that might look like um so we could carry that money forward and save it at that time um we don't want to wait too long before doing anything that was designed to be a ditch um and it does undermine the base of the roadway on the edge um when we allow water to continue to sit there okay um sure how was that tied on Treasure Lane and Paradise Lane tied in with the um Elevate TI elev the Elevate the road so as as the project stands right now it doesn't tie in at all um we are looking at a project that could be Grant funded um to elevate the West Causeway um that would be Rel Landscaping the medians the shoulder areas along the lanes um replacing the pavement all at one time and then we would like to bring before you a second alternative that's a lesser project that basically um provides a water quality component and then has an outfall similar to the situation that we've designed on the east side of the causeway so you're not tying the two you're not tying the two together I'm not sure what you mean Elevate the causeway and the drainage we would that would be one alternative a costly alternative that we would only pursue if Grant funded I believe okay with another alternative that would cost so one in the Watershed master or watershed management plan and I think that's where which watershed management plan and Elevate TI go together yes so in the watershed management plan it calls for the West Causeway to eventually be at 5.1 foot of elevation right and it's currently where 3.45 on average and that doesn't sound like a lot of difference but when we're looking at like three Ines is uh shutting down a lane it it is a huge impact so ultimately that would be the to be in conformance with the with Elevate TI and the watershed management plan it would need to come out up about a foot and a half that doesn't necessarily need to be done all at the same time is that a so so what you're saying is it would be a really to get all the way there would be a very big project so I would recommend doing that one all at once um there's other in the city where you kind of have to do it incrementally because you have constraints of neighboring properties that is one that would be obviously like definitely the most cost effective to do it at one time because you can raise all your facilities at once um so that kind of ties into this because if we're deciding what to do with Landscaping on that road and that sort of a project is on the horizon how far out do you think a project like that could be realistic so one of the things that we wanted to develop for you after we got through the adoption of the delev ATI terrain modification program was a decision Matrix of that would allow you to have a tool to decide how to use these funds um there are arguably other areas in the city that have worse flooding now but may not be able to get to that full elevation goal right now um and there's different Grant applications for different projects as well so there's just a lot of factors for you to decide so several years ago when we first started looking at the adoption of the watershed management plan the West Causeway was the top priority then there was discussion that that may shift other areas so it's a very big decision for you all to make um in terms of planning TimeWise it would depend on a grant you wouldn't want to get too far into a design you wouldn't want to get Beyond conceptual without having a grant commitment um and getting those Grant funds um to put this way we still don't have the Federal grant agreement for the master Pump Station that we were awarded quite a while ago it just takes a long time so three years five years I think I think three to five is a good estimate and and it's not that we can't put other Landscaping in I I just would be hesitant to put trees in and I think those residents do want trees because they want that screening between their house and the roadway but we would be putting ourselves in the same situation again potentially 5 years from now where we're looking at removing trees and that's a very you know heated subject so that's the question I have for the commission is with a project like that potentially out three to five years or the other alternative was to do a a a medium project potentially next year where we would improve the we could design next year you're looking at two to three in three to five years right so we're looking at either a full project to bring it all the way way up to where the Watershed M management plan wants us to be or with 3 to five years or an intermediate plan that would come one to three years from now is it is there a return on investment in doing any sort of landscaping along the causeway now the benefit being having better landscaping for that span of time or do we leave it at is we've heard from a lot of residents that the drainage is an issue the water you can see that the water there doesn't drain the same way that it does on the East Causeway which was just redone and a big project there to really have that done that stays there probably like 24 to 36 hours would you say on the East Causeway it's it's up to 72 to 72 on the East Causeway too yes so that's how many days is that three days um so the life according to CDC the life cycle of a mosquito larva is like 11 days it doesn't look pretty though yeah um and how long are we seeing water standing in the swailes on the west caway I think the weekend that we had um a couple of months ago where it rained all weekend long it was it two and a half inches four and a half inches so it was it was about four days we still all water there that was the most we've ever seen it yeah it took longer than 72 hours but it was not the whole next day so it was like three and a half to four days at the most and that was then now we have a raised water table if you don't you've lived out in um Paradise Isles Paradise Island and um the water there's a floating uh brackish water table that goes up and down so when the high tide goes up guess what that brackish water goes up also and so we could have a a king tide and there'd be water in the ditch not from rain but from the water table the water table is less than 2 and 1 half fet below grade out there and Paradise Island well as you just noted the water table fluctuates with the tide also fluctuates with otation so how much head do you have to work with well between the the invert elevation on the ditch and the the call it the nearest one be the there's okay so on the there was no outfall from those ditches ever built so there's no structure what happens is is once it fills up at both ends it pops off goes into the road treasure Lane and into our drainage there think I know the the question that you're getting at and it's nothing that's not my question it it's it's it's inch it's fractions of inches and so that's why what we're going to find is when we look at this massive Elevate TI project and then we look at the cost to do the other piped one it's it's it's still going to be very expensive because we're looking at a very tricky piping situation that would be a narrow elliptical style pipe and trying to get that through existing ement to to develop outfalls to drain those areas it'll be I'm excited to look at it CU it's an interesting alternative to look at but it's probably not going to be an expensive an inexpensive alternative and I don't think it's the uh be all and all no because if you're already experiencing water in the ditch at a king tide you don't have any head to work with that's right so I'd hate to see money spent on expensive drainage system when you're going to wind up the same as they do down Sunset Beach so I think our our options are are somewhat limited any further thoughts I still come back to my question is if we have these two potential projects out a year and a half or a year to two two a year to three years or 3 to 5 years is it worth doing anything with the Landscaping along the causeway right now or do we just leave it as is and this is something that affects everyone so I want to hear everyone's thoughts because this is along the entry way to the city um if you're looking at as we just discussed um if you're going to redo the vegetation just for vegetation purpose um as U Patty um get something in the salt to because as you just discussed a king tide you've already got it up about two and a half feet when when a plant is is described as salt tolerant all bets are off in ination for days um so we we definitely do our best to try to pick those and that's what we've kind of identified in that species list are plants that are more salt tolerant but it's just not a guarantee is there a problem with leaving the bottle bre there I think it's the best short-term solution because I have heard from several of those residents and they really want trees they want that screening from the road and I'm I'm leery of putting trees in to take them out could we trim the bottle brush trees back any more than they are currently some of them are like growing into the road and those those bottle brushes I believe are about 40 years old they normally last 25 years that's why I'm asking these questions so so those many bottle bottle brushes their their root systems are very shallow they don't go very deep so their Roots just go long and wide and then they start to twist a little bit right because you're now looking at those trees and they're you can see them twisting they are they're very old and they're very brittle and when we get a a storm coming through and they break off big branches of it that's what is causing us to have to push all that when we have a storm if you we're here during Irma the bottle brushes were what prevented us from getting into the city because those bottle brushes broke their limbs broke and and got in the way so we had it took us probably four hours or so to remove them and I was just to push them off to the side of the road so we get emergency vehicles there those bottle brushes we had looked at by an arborist I want to say right after that storm and the arborist basically said these are old and they're they're not in really good shape so we went through and tagged which ones to remove and as you remember any of the branches that got broke we cut the trees down because they were going to be brittle anyway so bottle brushes you know how many of them have already been removed well most of them were removed on the east side so they're all gone now the E okay the East Side have been removed side all of them have been removed so east of paradise Boulevard and light like between the between the light and the draw East talking about after the storm before we did the East caway project went through the east side and took a out but on the west side we primarily just removed the ones that were leaning really hard over like some of them were like almost 90 going sideways I know they've been removed from the East CA but on the west Causeway it's been very selective okay yeah estimate on how many we've taken out like 20 and what sort of feedback have we received from I know you just said from the people that live on those roads they say they want trees eventually and in the until they have different trees are they okay with the bottle brush trees I don't think soes are better than this project originally came about because of resident on Paradise Lane who went to the former city manager and said we need new Landscaping here and it is I mean we we hear that even from people who don't live on the lanes because they come in from the East side and it looks beautiful and then you come in ours it's like what's going on here um so it's it's a common thing that we hear like we need to do something to the area okay yeah let's take some public comment thanks uh Gary penano 15 treasure Lane uh the trees are in need of some TLC no doubt about it but it's better than nothing and I don't want to see us throw money on something that's probably not worthwhile um we haven't gotten many complaints on the treasure lane side about it but more just the ditch and even after the water after the water dries up it's muddy it's junky cars run into it looks like a you know racetrack through there so that's the biggest issue John you know that you've say it all the time so I I don't know it's not a simple answer it is there's mysteriously I can't say anything about it because some the trees are bad but we still need something that's better than nothing maybe a little trimming uh there's a lot of utility boxes and power boxes that need to be fixed it looks like they've been crushed kicked everything else I try to fix them when I go by but I can so many things there so maybe we take a little that and if we can plant some other plants around I I don't know what the answer is it's definitely not spending good money after bad Gary F if you would speak to the project that we just did uh that would answer some questions for Gary And for Mr tuning as well and that that project is the uh the two gentlemen that drove the city um and took a look at all of the utility boxes of any sort of any company and uh and basically now we're working with the the utility companies and everything else so I don't know if if Mike you're best or yeah at at your request through uh the city manager we uh did a survey of all the utility boxes and I'm when I'm saying boxes it's not the big transformers we're talking about the little smaller ones and most of them are uh cable companies and so we went around and we basically tagged each one of those through G GIS so we have a map of where all those are located I am right now about at 50 out of 126 in the whole city 50 of them identifying who they belong to now I can't tell what cable company it is because they don't tell you and if it's GTE I don't even know if anybody has on it so I'm going to go to the cable companies the the electric company doesn't have much from what I can see right now the electric company does not have many boxes that are in dire need of being replaced that Duke Energy however there are probably a hundred or so of these other little bitty boxes or cylinders with uh cable Connections in them so my job is to figure out who belong who it belongs to and then I'm going to print it out and I'm going to send it to the cable companies and say fix or remove so yeah but there's 126 of them right now we are sorting through and tagging who they belong to and Ray that was a one of the issues that your wife had and uh that's why I did bring it up to the city manager and uh and they they've moved on it pretty quickly um okay do we have any other public comment on this so I I have a little the causeway so you've received my stuff on the on the causeway and in particular the Southside where the water stands um so at some point uh I don't know when it was a year or two ago uh you guys dug that ditch deeper and it and I think the problem's gotten worse to be honest with you and if you look at the tire uh marks I think there's a big safety issue a huge safety issue um every time the water water goes up on the street you can when it recedes and I I heard what he said but I can tell you I've been monitoring the water in that ditch as well and it's been about five days it sits in that thing at times and even after it's gone there's a certain layer of mud muck at the bottom of it and you can see the tire tracks where they're going off the off the road there's no shoulder anymore um because the way it was cut last time it goes at an angle so it should have stayed flat for a while and actually it probably should be paved but um I I hear what you're saying uh mayor in that if this is a one to threeyear project well that's one thing but if it's three to five and three three to five could turn to be you know four to six or five to seven then I think we'd be going in the wrong direction I think the fix for that ditch there is pretty simple I sent some sketches to you guys to consider and um you could fix that side the other side has a similar but it does have some drains you have to F you have to look for them but there there are some drains there and um and it's and when it backs up it's not nearly as bad so um I was asked by a friend of mine to relay and I you should do some more work and talking to the people who live on Paradise Lane and and and treasure Lane I don't live live there but there's a lot of people don't want those trees anymore they're old they they're messy um they keep breaking off and um and I think if you do whatever you're going to do closer to either Paradise or treasure Lane um and and leave more room in on the on the side of the causeway then you can probably get some short-term ditching going in there try to relieve this the safety issue and the one on the Southwest um really really needs um need some sort of an outfall so I think if you dug the ditch properly you put in the right drainage to handle your first flush one inch rainfall and um and did it correctly like I had showed you could push a pipe and you could probably make that work keep the invert high in that particular area and I think it'll work just fine again if you're thinking something in one to three years I might feel differently about it but you do have a safety issue and you should address it and and and you know you we don't want to see anybody you know even if they're on the phone doing something stupid but go into that ditch and and hurt themselves or or you know hurt somebody so um how do we resolve the safety issue though I'm not I'm confused at how instead of you having a a deep ditch you have a shallower ditch and you put a a much more permeable Rock uh like mcaer gaban or stuff like that with an embedded pipe in it and so it's flatter and so it's not going to the cars aren going to be driven down into that and put more of a shoulder so because when when it rains you can't see that shoulder anymore and it doesn't you know people are pretty much going blindly so they they slow down for the most part but if you're next to somebody you you don't know where you're at and and you you don't have to look any further than the fact of looking at the ditch after the rain and you can see tire tracks in it they're there and I saw one it was a bicycle I don't know what happened there I mean I if they lost control and got into the ditch and then you could see the foot marks where they had to you know walk their bike out so it is a safety issue and it is the entryway into Treasure Island and so I think that is one that should look really nice my opinions thank you I get the aesthetic issue it is an issue but the water's either on the road or it's off the road there's a safety issue regardless yeah unless the whole soil and side of the road is St constructed right unless you add and can that be could that be done like he's suggesting is adding outfalls as it stands right now that's the project alternative that we want to bring before you for Budget okay as opposed to eleva okay um last qu so just kind of coming back to the my question of is it worth doing any Landscaping there now and and utilizing some of the budget that we have to respond to these residents that are asking for some improvement there are a lot of areas where those bottle brushes have already been taken out and there's nothing there we did a really great job I think on the north side of the road coming right o right as you come over the drawbridge where we there was an issue of the people all the way down at the end of the road we think kind of cutting over to get out quicker um and we added like fountain grass kind of in an S shape would that be an option to add periodically down the causeway to beautify a little bit in areas where the bottle brush have been removed we can certainly put more between the trees that are there yeah that be something that we would if it's a one to three if it's one to three years until we do something there I know that that would eventually get potentially taken out but to and I need to play fresh eyes on how much there is that I would would want that in but any thoughts on that um if you were to take the bottle bush trees out and just put in the grass like is on the North side just immediately west of the bridge um you lose all your there's no visual um barrier yeah I'm not take I'm not suggesting taking the I'm saying if we leave all the bottle brushes as is there are still a lot of Open Spaces where they've already been removed moved so could we add in some Landscaping in the meantime where those bottle brushes where there are big voids of any sort of landscaping I would think if you're going to fill in fill in with something that can be a visual area which would be more expensive though and would potentially need to be taken out later on if there's a bigger project we don't know and so if you want to go down that path let's go down that path and find out what trees are there how much would it cost what are the alternatives for filling in and take it from there see what the costs are yeah talking to your microphone sorry I'm used to our old mic sit actually picked up the sound um but um there's some spots that look just terrible along the causeway and it's our entrance to the city so I think we really do need to do a a cost analysis of what we're looking at and what we can put in that's what I'm suggesting is in the areas where they've already been taken out and it looks bare could we add something just until we have a bigger project exactly beautify it a little bit I don't think it would cost that much so maybe that's something we could look into would that be okay with at least getting some cost no trees not taking out any trees but filling in where and I can work with you to kind of Identify some of those spaces um but just trying to beautify it a little bit rather than having those voids good with that all right any other comments is that sufficient for now okay it doesn't solve your the ditch issue in the meantime but I think we got to see what they come up with as far as a design and find out how much that's going to cost and evaluate whether we want to move forward with that or the like ultimate goal I'm speaking for another person that I talked to just could be here tonight um would you object to maybe if there one of the um home owners ERS there that had one of those trees in front that they the ones that have to deal with it all the time and looking at it would you be opposed to pulling one for one of those particular people that wanted it pull it you're going to have to pull these trees eventually right something to consider anyone want to respond I I think it's worth all us having a field trip out there uh as a group and meeting with some of the residents there as well as a couple of experts that might be able to tell us what our options are both shortterm and long term fortunately we we'd have to formalize it we could do that but we'd have to formalize it and have to be a noticed meeting that the public would uh would be able to attend it's it's doable just it's a little bit more can done is that something we want to do or do we want to just rely we can probably rely on some could we get some drone pictures from out there that we could look at and some ground level pictures we have great Google Earth is your best bet well it's not current it's Ain nine months usually it's a lot changes in nine months I believe Jason can do it for us then we at least have some visuals to kind of face off of and I can we can I can work with Stacy we can go or we can go out there individually so we don't deal with those issues but but somebody's going to have to point us in the right direction because I'm not that familiar with with some of the areas that you're talking about I don't say areas I mean specifics I'll make we'll I'll be there tomorrow all right sounds good this sounds like a good direction everyone yeah all right all righty um we'll move on do we have any other public comment on any any other topic all right hearing none we'll adjourn thank you everyone