##VIDEO ID:ggObvVMjIbI## e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e good I love you I'm kidding oh you're kidding about loving me I mean I just get my I just get I just get my Intel from your husband so no you don't did you tell them I'm going to take you home after today's meeting no come on let me just pick you start picking you up pleas bonding time right if I need anything no because that bad appearances before the meeting for Sunshine laws well it does you usually wait till the TV comes on I don't yeah thought I thought so I just usually wait anyway because of that welcome to the city of Treasure Island local planning agency meeting for September 12th already 20 24 if you wish to speak on the topic which is on today's agenda a members a speaker card is available on the table over by the entrance and must be completed and given to the chairperson please do not address the board from your seat but rather from the podium where your comments can be heard by all and recorded as required by Florida statute unscheduled topics may be presented under the public comments section of the agenda if we could all stand for the Pledge of Allegiance I pledge aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands nation under God indivisible with li Justice okay if everybody would please silence their cell phones and we need to have Oath office for the reappointed and newly appointed members of these two boards could I please have Diana krael Ross Sanchez Grant Smith please stand and raise your right hands I your I Ross Sanchez do you solemnly swear or affirm that you will support protect and defend the Constitution and government of the United States and the State of Florida that I will well and Faithfully perform the duties on the local planning they need to be repated just go through okay we'll start with Grant I grant swe do solemnly swear that I will support protect and defend the Constitution and government I will support protect and defend the constitution of of the United States and the State of Florida of the United States and state of Florida that I will well and Faithfully perform the duties I will well and Faithfully perform the duties on the local planning agency of the city of Treasure Island Florida local AG city of treas Island on which I am about to enter so help me God about to enter so help me God okay said we got to repeat it yes this G be trouble okay it's not the same yeah it is can I just read it yes this one right here yes yeah ready yeah I Ross Sanchez do Solly swear or affirm that I will support protect and defend the constition in the government of the United States and of the State of Florida that I will defin I will Faithfully perform the duties of the Planning and Zoning Board and the local planning agency of the city of Treasure Island Florida on which I'm about to enter so help me God thank you you may set thank you Diana I Diana Craig all do Solly swear that I will support protect and defend the Constitution and the government of the United States and the State of Florida that I will well and Faithfully perform the duties on the planning and zoning board and local planning agency of the city of Treasure Island Florida on which I am about to enter so help me God thank you okay with that out of the way we'll have an official roll call when you get a chance Stephanie roll call Gary penano here Grant Smith here Marvin shavin here Ross Sanchez here Diana crell here Richard Harris here absentees are L Lynn fiser Chris Downing and Michael thank you and welcome to the party Grant Smith he is taking the place of uh Linda Drisco who unfortunately has left us and she was a very nice woman and uh we hated to see her go okay election of the Planning and Zoning SL local planning agency chair well I've been chair for a while I'll continue to do it if you guys want me to I'd like to make a motion that the current chair and vice chair stay as in their current positions second we do that roll call Jer penano Hi Brent Smith hi Marvin shavin hi R Sanchez hi Diana kille I Richard yes thank you very much for your confidence yes indeed okay approval of minutes we don't have any presentation of items uh review LPA resolution 20246 which recommends approval of ordinance 20 24-20 to the city commission this is a dock ordinance which has a lot to do with inside corners and Mary Ellen go ahead with your presentation I will not on inside Corners though it's on the paper in the paperwork well that's in the definitions but I'll explain it here in a second so the the main point of this particular ordinance is to um clarify some regulations uh relating to repair and replacement of a dock um right now the code says that if you replace more than 50% of the dock boards you um it's it's a replacement basically so what we're going to do is we're exempting doc boards only from the requirement for a permit so and that's consistent with the county regulations and they do not require a permit to replace just the deckboards if you're replacing the the pilings and the stringers and Joints you you still require to get a permit but if you're just doing the deckboards you don't have to so we're just removing that dock surface area um from that and then we also had some questions from residents on um the maximum width for um multi-use private docks so we just clarified um because in the regulation it says um that you can have more than one dock but they're combined m m but their combined width can exceed um the allowable width of each individual one so we clarified it to say that their combined width can't exceed 25% of the width of the property that just clarifies how we Define it that I can explain that a little more clearly as to what you've seen we were trying to clean up um a question on multi-use private docks so for instance if you have a condo with 10 units you get multi-use that would have multi-use what are called multi-use private docks so you would get you could have five docks because you get one for each two units and then each dock was limited in width and the total combined with the slips was limited to 35 ft so under those rules that we had until last year we had to make them split those docks in pieces and the Marine contractor said that makes no sense just cost money for the owners so we changed that but it wasn't clear in the way that I wrote The Language last year so all we're trying to do is clarify what we've already put into to place but that was the reason those multi-use private docks could be connected yeah I think we had that situation at 295 110th Avenue that b Vista Apartments that's over there I think they had they showed us plans where it was two separate docks yes you've seen a lot of docks that had that little tiny foot split or something in there and what it just did was cost an extra set of pilings okay let me know when we can ask questions those are the main um changes in the r in thein a other minor clarifications would you say that the the width thing is more kind of falling in line with the same type of width parameters for like single residential yes it's limited to 25% of the width of a lot it's just how you split it up you you allocate it however you want you know within your property okay and then I have two more questions sorry the um are we keeping the percentage on that like resurfacing the same or are we getting rid of that are we saying like doesn't matter how many boards you're going to replace right we removed the 50% okay so now you can you can replace just as long as it's just the deck board you can replace all oh okay so okay which is consistent with the county regul with it without getting a permit yes okay are we addressing any of the docks that have lifts that they're putting deckboards in is that that stays the same right I know that that's like a somewhat of a gray area so it's an actual lift that goes up and down and has deckboards in it mhm I'm just saying like there's I don't there's new docks these are not the floating ones though right CU we've already addressed those companies out there that sell like lowprofile Boat Lifts and they deck them you know there's people that deck boat lifts or wave runner lifts I'm just curious if we're not touching any of that not because that because we don't allow that anyway no because that would count towards that would count towards your surface their surface okay okay well that brings up a question let's just say that uh you had a boat left and you wanted to uh lift wave Runners on it and you put some two bu sixes uh down on your uh your bunks in order to uh lift those wave Runners is that not allowed right now if it goes over the square footage it technically would not be allowed well and if its sole purpose is to support the boat or the jet skis that's one thing but if people deck it to use it as a you know additional deck surface I mean I've seen where there's more than one like a boat lift just has the rails on the outside and one like a sling right yeah a they call those would be the bunks the buks I don't know those terms but yeah so if you needed more for a boat to have jet skis you had two or four that would still be a boat lift okay but if it's a solid surface deck then that becomes something else how will confess my sins I decked over my boat lift many years ago and then I took them back off after I got rid of the wave Runners and then one of the things I remember when we would do when we were talking and just because we're talking about multiuse so I'm just trying to figure it out um many of times we've had these site plans or the the the dock lifts the The Boat Lifts come in and there I can't recall what it was but we'd always ask the question why why is it coming in front of us when it seems like it's so simple like from an administrative side to pass it through so is that something you used to see all the multi-use private docks in the rm15 zoning we changed that about two to three years ago okay so that you don't see those anymore okay um so the ones you should be seeing now are mostly commercial okay or in a zoning where it's not meant to be multif family okay I just want to make sure that that was buttoned up because if we were going to edit it I'd like to do it now but I guess if we did it three years ago then yeah okay I have a question go ahead and I don't remember exactly where I read it but where you have neighbors sign off um because it is close I I think the only time that happens is when it gets close to those inside corners and that type of thing with us changing some of this as far as the deck boards and that type of thing and that signature from the neighbors is not a variance then when they have to go and get permitted again for doing something are they going to be required to get signatures from the current Neighbors at that point again so if they replace the same thing they have like it's wait a minute let me think about this I I think I had it's going to sign off on the specific doc that's there so if it's changed it's going to have to have a new signature does that answer the question but if they do if it's but if they have to pull a new permit because they're doing more than 50% on any of the polls or anything then do they have to go back to the neighbors or does that still fall underneath the other part I think if they're replacing more than 50% of the pilings it's a new do it's a new Dock and we get a new permit and therefore they would be required to get even if they're replacing the same thing exactly the same as it was before they have to get somebody else to sign off again well what I'm concerned about is that you have people that are sitting there at 80 and 90 years old and they agreed to it because they don't want to have a boat now they go and the family moves in and now the family's younger and they want they don't want to allow that so they would have to wait until you had a new one put in even if it was the same way should be because that it wasn't a variant so there's not anything that goes and stays permanently with that land a really good question hold on one minute I'm going to look up exactly what the code says so we can advise you better really that's a really good question thank you I get it so like let's say someone 30 years Go Signs off the neighbor signs off on a boat lift that's over to the side yes 30 years passes that dock is going to get replaced new pilings new strings everything if they submit a permit does the sign off from the 30-year-old need to be signed off again if they're going to put it in on property on on the side property correct because they're because they're getting a new permit right assuming they didn't get a variance I don't know it says a notorized statement of no objection from the property owners to be encroached upon has been submitted to the city in addition the city shall require sign the doc plans being proposed so that's pretty clear they're going to have to sign even if it's even if it's identical replacement it will require a new signature okay I'm good with that I'm good with that too as long as the variance now we're talking the variance because it's no it's not a variant there's two different things give me give me go back then okay okay so there's an exemption for that only applies to private docks for single and two Family Properties doesn't apply to multif family doesn't apply to Commercial and allowing your neighbor to sign off for you to be in the setback okay so that's an exemption that's a simple notorized signature okay um the other is a true variance which is what comes to the Planning and Zoning Board and if you obtain a variance the variance runs with the land yes so it's there once you obtain it it's there forever but neighbor sign off is not a variance correct no correct correct it's just an exemption for that one specific that's and that's why I was asking the question to make sure we had CL that's crazy I mean that's a that's a good Again Jennifer it stays there right the V the variance doesn't go away it's there if you get a variance it stays there if you get this sign off by your neighbor which is not a variance it's an exception it doesn't okay you good Gary I can I can give you a really good example I'm good okay okay any other questions yes go ahead Marvin um how long does it take to get a permit to um repair or replace a a seaw wall typically it's dependent there's two basically types of seaw wall there's a a just a repair which is a quick turn around ass repl um but a replacement there's two different kinds there's a replacement where you're going back at the same height that's um also probably a week to two weeks um the other one where you're elevating it and you have to have drainage plans reviewed and structural plans reviewed that goes out for civil engineering review and probably more like four weeks well the reason I'm asking is because you've got this 30-day you know this thing the um hazardous seaw walls and it says they have to be completed in 30 days from notice section 69 in today's world getting anything done in 30 days is like almost impossible so and I I see I know there's an extension of 30 but I mean if we have a if we have a bad hurricane come through and you've got several people trying to do that are there going to be enough seaw wall contractors right to be doing like every other sea wall and stuff I had that same question I was a little lary about the 30-day also Marvin I mean I think do 60 days and with an additional 30 if you need it I mean the city manager has the discretion to extend those do we have type of cases in a state of emergency we also have many other powers that the city commission can adopt is that kind of in our comprehensive plan and in the and just in state law that there would be automatic extensions if we had extraordinary circumstances as you know a hurricane coming through and damaging quite a few sea walls or that type of thing so it depends so there are emergency powers that the city commission has under their Charter as well as in statute okay and so oftentimes you'll see like if there's a hurricane that's anticipated to be close by the city commission will convene and do a a state of local emergency okay as well as's County will do one and um the state will do one and so each of those has um different and it depends on the emergency sometimes the governor instructs certain things in his um state of emergency that um do I want to say extend or um suspend certain activities and the city also has that Authority within its jurisdiction to certain limits okay because I would certainly like to see some limitation on there because if you have a seaw wall at property a or let's say property B and it's not getting taken care of that could affect properties A's and c and you could you could find some scrupulous right um contractor that keep on signing off 30 days and we wouldn't want that to happen but that's probably isn't the normal I'm thinking of if when we have acts of God or that type of a thing that right that we're protecting the property owner of not you know getting code violations when it's really out of their hand they're doing their best right right so I think that in here what this is talking about is for you to obtain and accomplish the task um and and that that restriction is allowing them to give more time for you to be able to accomplish that but as far as the permit extensions that we've dealt with like General that's something that's put forth in statute and the city has no control over okay all right I'm good with it anybody else if I may I have a couple questions good um so on page 11 of the packet where we're saying that permits are not required to replace deck boards there's a stipulation there that says uh shall not require the issuance of a permit from the city but all deck boards will meet the minimum construction criteria as required by pelis county in any applicable manufactured product applications if the permitting process is eliminated what's the accountability to assure that uh that folks comply with the materials requirements that falls under your contractor's license we do need to put uh some responsibility on Engineers Architects and contractors and uh believe me every doc uh Builder out there is either using uh the new TRS or plastic wood or they're using uh PT pressure treated yeah our concern we were looking at this I know we talked to about it and it was a concern that for instance you know the deck board may be 8 ft long and they're coming back with track Stacks which which can't span 8 ft and so that was trying to make like material you know that that could bear the the flex and the load cuz but show me so it's direction for compliance with the regulation but there's not a permit or an inspection that's going to occur to ensure until there's some other reason you know and that that's not an issue that's not a concern it seems to be in the best interest of the homeowner to have compliance right I mean it's you can either not specify the materials and just let it go or you can specify it so you've given them some guidance but you're not necessarily going to be you don't have an inspection or a permit maybe there should be an inspection well then you're back to permitting it I know but what he says makes sense mean not really Marvin once again I'm one of these people that believes if you have a contractor's license I'll turn you into the Board of Professional Regulation in a minute and I've done it before and if you don't meet standards you're going to get it and uh that's up to the homeowners and every doc I've dealt with a lot of dock Builders because I used to sign and seal dock permits and uh every one of them is very protective of their license no I agree with that I agree with that Richard 100% so there's some recourse for the homeowner with oh yeah but it it believe me it never gets to that point I mean you're not going to go out there and try to build a dock with a one by6 you know everything that's uh built out there is pressure treated 2x sixes or this new Trek stuff which it's getting better let's put it that way it's being used a lot now now it used to be really marginal stuff I mean it'd fall apart after four or five years I know the city used it on some walkways and it fell apart but it's getting better okay I believe we're at the point now where we can uh make a motion on page lost the page anyway how about a motion to uh send this to the city Commission on page four we need to read the whole just uh where it says motion on page four I moveed to approve resol resolution LPA 2024 d06 which recommends adoption of ordinance 20 24-2 to the C City commission could have a second please second all right motion by Marvin shaelin second by Diana Crill roll call please and just for the record there's no public pardon me I was just explaining there's no public that's why you didn't call for public comment there's no members here yeah always always forget to do that but that is correct there's nobody here Gary Pat Pano yes Grant Smith yes Marvin shavin yes Ross Sanchez yes Diana krabo yes Richard Harris yes okay we get some new Docks but uh Mary Ellen I was looking through the whole document of course my favorite subject inside Corners was had like three diagrams on it and I'm like oh I hope we don't re uh reopen this thing because it is that is probably the rant you'll find out that is probably the worst case that we have before this board is these poor guys that bought the inside corner of a lot and they want to build a dock with a boat lift and it ends up blocking their neighbors View and it it never has been clean anyway moving on local planning agency issues comments or discussion anybody have something I have something but uh I'll let y'all go first uh I have something um because I know that so Katherine when it comes to our ldrs and with the Consultants I don't know if it's on our list because I know we're in the process of redoing them or revising them um one of our previous meetings we had again one of those situations where the um property had three front yards from a fencing perspective and I just wanted to high like ask to put that on the list for like review so we can like actually Define something other than three front yards we had addressed that in the ordinance that was written for elev TI we had cleaned up all the fence regulations so we're still working with the commission to establish a schedule and when you know what we're going to how we're going to move forward with that okay so we're going to make a determination staff-wise if we've got the time to bring some of this stuff sooner um depending on what kind of schedule they set out seemed like one out of one out of the last three one of the last three meeting one out of the last three meetings going back whatever 12 24 meetings it just seems like that front yard has come up each time um so I just want to make sure that we're in the process of addressing that no we are and there were a lot of other things like this dock stuff a lot of this dock changes were in the Elevate ordinance but since we were bringing you this doc ordinance because we wanted to be consistent with the county on the repair replace um criteria we went ahead and brought some of the definitions and Clarity that we were trying to put into code but that did not have anything to do with Elevate okay um but we have eight ordinances written ready to go that are now have to be changed so we're once we establish a new timeline with the commission as to what where we're going with that program then we're going to make some determinations as to what we need to bring forward sooner okay we're also at the same time as you well know working on the ldrs which have a due date of June so we're we just don't have the capacity to write these ordinances and these ordinances and these ordinances and these ordinances and add a bunch of uncodified ordinances to our city that no one knows about so we try to bring things in more complete packages whenever we can okay yeah no thank you um and then when those Consultants are back because I know that elevate TI or whatever I know that we're going to like revisit that can we and I know I emailed you about it if we can if I can just for the board get an example of some of these houses that are being built that are a couple of feet garage above the ground which is above the driveway I just want to understand what that is versus what we were trying to do from like an levati perspective be happy to do that yeah and I've sent a couple examples um you know we'll look at those yeah it's just very interesting to me on how some of these new build constructions the garage I mean you look at it from the road and the garage is already no your pictures were kind of stunning to be honest I have not seen that and uh I do know there are two houses that I'm well aware of because the neighbors have been complaining about them that um they dug deep sailes all the way around their yards and use that they redistributed the soil on site but I don't know if those are the same ones that's fine I mean there's three that I know of there's one that's completed there's one that's probably 50% complete and there's one that's like 30% complete but I mean you just yeah no stand there and look if your feet are on the on the road and you look at the garage floor it's raised you know 2 feet 3 feet and I'm just trying to figure out when we talk about it it's a very good question I'm trying I'm trying to understand the difference between what we're trying to accomplish and what we're going to revise and things like so they're taking basically Phil not it's not Phil it's basically dirt existing dirt and I don't know how I don't know how they're doing it I'd like to learn I'd like to learn how or why it's allowed they able to do that you can do that as long as you don't drain on your neighbors and your jaage plan accomplishes that but at the same time you've got some other things you're trying to which is draining half the water off your seaw wall and half the water to the road cuz that's even though that's an Elevate that's still the provisions now in our code um or if you're an inland lot draining all to the road so it is difficult to SW to sell this out and make it work in a in a physical form but it's possible yeah and I'm not trying to like call people out who are you know building or just moved into their houses I'm not try I'm trying I'm trying just trying to understand again the direction that we want to go if this boy has to take a field trip to a couple properties I think it may be beneficial to like actually look at it and I'll I mean it makes sense when you look at it or I can take more pictures and send them Bo just and we want to make sure they meeting code I mean they got they got cos so I mean okay you sent pictures to the staff yeah okay be interesting to see them because uh yeah that's one of my pet peeves and uh you know we have a lot of uh houses and one of them I'm getting a lot of calls about uh of your next door neighbor draining onto your property and uh it that is something that is not new with uh removing the prohibition of Phil on Treasure Island it's uh it's been in the code for years and years you can't drain your uh drainage onto your neighbor thank you Katherine okay well I'm going to start off here I attended the August 20th meeting at City commission meeting Diana Crill did as well Chris Downing uh did for a little while but he left and it was not the most Pleasant of meetings uh that I've ever attended but uh Elevate TI was discussed a lot uh basically the upshot of that meeting was everything was put on hold um actually I was going to rename it remove the prohibition of Phil on Treasure Island is what I wanted to call it um because that is with sea level rise which is happening and just the regular storm like uh hurricane Debbie tropical storm ETA uh gosh you name them all it's not a bad idea to raise your garage up a little bit and obviously what you just described Ross people are figuring out a way to do it even without hauling in Phil um the upshots of that meeting and this is just my opinion opinion but I'm going to lay him out to you in order to move this forward in a form that is not going to get the residents of Treasure Island all worked up that they will show up again and oppose it um number one issue was yeah let's remove the prohibition of Phill on Treasure Island so you can haul some some dirt in I mean technically we violated our own ordinance when we rebuilt the sand dunes down on Sunset Beach that was an emergency situation obviously nobody had any objection to that but technically we hauled Phil on some onto a Treasure Island the second thing that everybody got into was no time interval between building permits for houses uh below the hundred-year flood I agree if you want to do it you're just throwing uh you're spending your money I mean if you were like uh I'm going to pick on Bob minning because I can if you're uh as old as Bob menning and you just want to renovate your house but it's going to cost more than the 50% value of the uh house just let him do it I mean uh maybe when whoever buys the house from him or the next owner will fix it third uh thing that everybody was worked up about was the mandating of the floor levels Catherine you came up with a good uh example of what if a spec Builder doesn't want to raise the finished floor of a garage and my answer is number one is you're being irresponsible but number two that's also a selling point I raised the finished floor of this garage up higher than the flood you know up higher than I could have but uh the push back on that meeting was I don't want to be mandated and uh so we got a lot of push back on that I know that I would hope that between the city staff convincing these Builders they need to do this and the builders themselves saying yes I want to raise my house I mean I've said it a million times I tore down my house if I could have raised that finished floor in my garage another foot to two feet I would have done it in a second it's a smart thing to do um somebody told me there was a lot of discussion about the 50% versus the 49% um limitation on damage to your house I didn't really get that I mean um I didn't get the feeling that that was a big issue but this one individual said oh no we don't want to change I don't consider 1% a whole lot a big deal but if it would uh get this uh issue moving forward I'd let that go too and just say hey maybe it's not the city of treaser Island's responsibility to Lo lower flood insurance cost if you have a house above the 100-year flood your cost isn't that much um one of the big issues number five was the big issue was when we came up with the cost to raise the roads you know thing was the the price of $10 million per mile came up you know it took no time to say 24 miles times $10 million quarter of a billion dollar you I wouldn't even address that is isue the roads in front of my house I've lived there for 38 years they've never been rebuilt they've never been even repaved they were slurry sealed once 38 years you know the main thing I got out of elevate TI was we're going to raise the roads someday and it will be you know this is a 76 year project this will be one of the last things to get done what we want to do right now is give the uh future home builders of Treasure Island the ability to raise up their uh garages if you're tearing down a house and you're going to build a new one you're going to have to build it above the hundred-year flood anyway uh let's see uh my personal comments Advanced engineering did a great manual on how to grade your yards I mean there's three types of grading in the FHA manual where the backyard drains to the front where the front yard drains to the back back and then what is mostly common here in Treasure Island is where the lot splits and the uh back half of the lot goes to the seaw wall the front half of the lot goes to the road you know it's it's a good manual and I'm glad they prepared it and it will give the city staff a good tool to uh show these Builders hey this is what you have to do uh don't want to hear the complaints of the the Gary Gary D on type situation we all have heard about him where the house is built too close to his house and it drains on to him um and then last but not least this is just a reminder to uh everybody who was there at the 20th FEMA is the bad guy in this situation if your house is damaged more than 50% you have to tear it down and start all over I mean you either have to uh jack up what's left I don't know why you try to do that or you tear it down and start all over um city of Treasure Island staff and I kept hearing this trying to run us out of our one-story uh ranch style houses no we're not y City staff is not trying to do that whatsoever if you want to live in that house more power to you this is just a situation as some as our citizen re ages cuz the average age in this city is 57 years old as we get older and sell off our houses the big thing to do right now and you see it everywhere is you buy that house you tear it down build a new one and uh this gives you good guideline of what to do and uh like I said before raising your garage I mean I know you're not supposed to finish your garage that garages are designed to get wet well people put a lot of perishable stuff down in their garage I know I have a lot of paper down there right now it would just be wise and nice to uh be able to do that and so it bowls down to one issue main issue and that is the removal of the prohibition of fill on this island and I know there's a lot of uh items we have to u to revise in order to make this happen but mainly it's the idea that you can go to a borrow pit somewhere here in the State of Florida buy dirt H H structural fill in and put it on your lot and uh that's what we want to achieve that's the main thing that I got out of the August 20th meeting was there's folks out here that are waiting to build their new house I mean I know of two myself and uh they don't want to build a house with their finished floor of their garage at elevation 5 they want to aim at 7.6 you know 7.6 I'd have to study completely um Justin's rationale for that I know that FEMA says you can't raise more than two feet but as long as you're not draining water from your lot onto your neighbor's lot it would be nice to uh raise these Lots up but because the storms seem to be coming more and more frequently I know we're doing this mainly for uh title rise but the side benefit is you know I've lived here for 38 years I can name the storms that I evacuated for and I can name the storms where the uh water was coming up my driveway and uh makes you a little uncomfortable if you could get it a foot higher that would be the thing to do so you know the the big upshot of that meeting was you know the LPA had not made our recommendation to the commission yet the Commission in my opinion kind of uh overtook our responsibility because the mayor asked for a consensus and it was almost like how are we going to vote on this thing well hold on guys you're getting ahead of yourself we need to uh get this thing back on Center and see if we can't push it along and uh uh that's my uh 10-minute dissertation uh anybody else have any other comments or anything but uh I for one would like to uh see this thing the main impression after that meeting was and the messages put out on social media was okay this thing's done and we don't want it to be done the citizens really don't want it to be done we just want it to be in a format that is uh digestible to the uh citizen rate that uh they understand and they don't get the feeling that they're trying to be run out of town because that is not what this is intended to do so any other comments by the rest of the board yeah I do uh why do we want to go to 49% just keep it 50 it's there keep it at 50 I have no I don't see any advantage going to 49 keep it at 50 why change it well that was we were going to get a reduction yeah we're not getting anything for believe me not the thing is you know the the thing that I heard was that it would save a few bucks well it wasn't that many much dollars and quite frankly if you're building your house to uh the new elevation you're you're you know to um required elevation your flood insurance rate is not that high but if you're below the 100-year flood yeah you can get some pretty heavy duty cost on your uh your uh flood insurance rates well I'm not lowering it to 49% Gary like you're saying just doesn't save that much money no I say we keep it 50 no this is more of a curiosity thing for fil dirt when you look at this whole thing it's massive I know do you break it down into Commercial Business and residential or is it a one no there's a manual and there are four sections in the manual there's one for seaw walls one for commercial buildings one for Residential Properties and one for public in going to have to be addressed right to so they each have different design it's like as Richard said it's an engineering manual it's all that manual is it's not a a as I think Justin calls it a cookbook you know it's how to do it it's not the prescription the prescriptions in the code you know that to do it or not to do it but the the actual how to so that manual even though I've heard a lot of complaints that it's very very long there's about 15 to 20 Pages for each one of those subjects okay the rest of it's um like tables and charts and you know things you need like an engineer needs to design what was the fourth item you said seaw walls residential commercial and uh public infrastructure like roads Road I just didn't did not hear you know the thing is once again and I'm repeating myself because I want to make sure that this is well understood that uh one the big complaints is oh my God we're going to saddle the residents of uh Treasure Island with a $300 million bill when we try to uh raise all these roads well commissioner menning brought up the fact that the State of Florida has no plans to raise gold Boulevard whatsoever today and the city has no plans to raise any roads today yeah I agree with you and you know that's one thing that was one of the misunderstandings was wow it sounds like we're getting ready to do this tomorrow we need to uh no this is a 76 year old time frame and it's probably going to be longer than that I mean I was talking to there's a guy on my street who has lived on Bay Plaza for 70 years go the road's never been rebuilt so you know the thing is unless the road is totally falling apart and if it's in pretty good shape it's not going to get totally rebuilt and raised and uh I know the U the handout the five-page handout had a great uh graphic on there where the roads were raised twice I can't ever see that happening and when they get raised they will be raised once the the first thing to do is get all the houses and elevation that the roads can be raised and really well that's the point is that you may not be able to raise it the two feet that the goal is it might only go up one foot 40 years from now because that's the houses on the road still going to control that you really can't raise it until almost virtually all the houses are raised right exactly so Catherine that's why I had asked you before this thing blew up what percentage in the last five years what percentage of the um Treasure Islands redeveloped yeah get an idea for how long is it going to take till everything redevelops because that's what's going to have to happen yeah and it's going to we're thinking 100 or 75 years it may be a lot longer than that well if Mother Nature gets involved change but otherwise it's going to take a long time well Mother Nature has been real nice to us in knock on wood they continue to do so I mean the last hurricane that was really mean to treaser Island cut John's pass through and that was about 1920 something I couldn't tell you the exact year but uh it's been been a hundred years Cather I could recall that with I don't know which consultant it is there's so many of them but when it comes to that 50 to 49% thing I had asked for one of the takeaways to be from a dollar perspective or percentage what type of impact that that actually saves us so hopefully when they come back they can provide that information yeah I believe that was in the presentation to the commission I'll pull it out it was yeah it was I mean because like if it's minimal then so I need to go back again Katherine back to my my question of curiosity then so is our directive we got this big we're making this big cake out there with this fi dirt is our goal to start zeroing in on the uh seaw wall first is that the goal is that what we should strive for is that we should recommend I mean well I would like to see it start to get going I mean getting motion here because we're holding up a lot of stuff no I understand I answer the phone to all the seawalk contractors all day long and a lot of people who are not happy that they can't raise their houses right now so um we are as soon as we get a direction from the commission what direction we're going we're going to have to sit down and figure out what we can do and I realize that seaw walls are are a high priority item but we have to remember this was a storm water plan and this was to help the City storm water so it's not as simple as just phille it's all tied into drainage and storm water I I didn't watch any of the commission meetings because I refused to because I was more just frustrated that we got the end around on it I mean we were told the entire time that this was going to be up to us and then we would submit to the commission so whatever um when it comes to the present day you know the commission is going to give us Direction I still feel like we were told from the start that this board is going to put it together and then submit it to commission so now that's changed right because the commission wanted to get involved now they're going to give your feedback then it's going to come through your we coming back to you okay but it's from the commission's feedback it's the commission's feedback as to what they think the program should look like okay not the PE like I mean I understand we're taking a look like everyone here has spent time when it comes to site plan modifications and construction builds and beachfront and all this stuff so you know where the commission's not seeing that every month like like like we are so I will I will make it very clear that I was not happy at all about um this going in front of the commission when we had spent hours and days in regards to putting it together and let me clarify too this was supposed to be a workshop to answer questions about it because there were so many questions this was not supposed to be a hearing on the on the project way obious was scheduled to come back to the LPA the next week that's what it was supposed to do but it ended up and I agree it didn't it you know I sat there to The Bitter End and the Word was used what's the con ensus on this and I'm like damn we're having a vote and that's what it was I me it wasn't an official vote Jennifer but it it was a tacit vote and uh you know and of course the citizens you know the reaction was you're running me out of my house and I'm like of course we're not I understand that you have a lot on your plate when it comes to everything that's going on within the city cathering but when it comes to the revisions so is it just for my takeaway the next time that LPA one of the next time that LPA meets you'll have those revisions the concepts the concepts to come back and discuss the concepts for us to review okay which is the fill dirt and and yeah how it's going to work like what what is the plan like I think we all heard we heard it from you today we heard from the commission 49% is 50% um that I believe we've heard that it's not cumulative anymore we're going to stick with the 50% limit on any given permit that we already have I do think there's a huge misunderstanding out there and I just want to put it on the record the 50% rule already exists yeah right and I I think there was a lot of public comment that led me to believe that people think that do does not exist they didn't know they didn't know and it exist today uh you can exed for for a long long time forever yeah basically for you know they wouldn't know unless they tackled it and we're doing a project so if they're if everybody's happy they're not dealing with this so I just you know so those are two of the things I know but the question about how we deal with storm water is really a consultant question and how we deal with storm water if this is not a mandatory program so that that's really where we are and we have to figure that out so I like I couldn't you know speak to what the program might look like okay so but it we come back to the LPA I'll go through the whole process again just out of curiosity because I think that it's important and I mean this town I mean we've got to figure out something I mean I I don't know if anyone else has noticed this but when you drive outside of Treasure Island on the bridge has anyone seen the big towers in the background from downtown St Petersburg oh yeah oh yeah pretty interesting right I mean that's a straight shot from downtown St Pete for people to go to the beach cors and right now if people were to want to go out and visit a beach front that got stuff going on they're probably going to come to Golf Boulevard maybe go left or right because obviously if we look around we have nothing the reason why I bring that up Katherine is because is the commission talking to these large Parcels of land that we have on the city John's past Pirates Square in regards to what this what their intentions are whatever these edits are going to make to where it maybe probably helps some of that progress with some of these large Parcels of parcels of land yes and there's a lot that we are talking about right now okay so yeah there's a lot going on that you will see shortly because the and the only reason I bring it up is because when we had met last time with those consultants and they had asked us our takeaways something that consensus that was from the board was from a positioning of we should look at something that potentially helps these areas grow so that's the only reason I'm bringing it up I know it's not an agenda item but it's why I'm bringing it up because if they're going to make comments and you're going to come like I want to make sure that the people that have big Parcels of land in this town are somewhat included because right now it's stagnant and it's just a lot of people are pretty it's wearing on a lot of people oh yeah thank you I'm aware thank you the one point I'd like to make up is uh she's been trying to talk for like go ahead Diana you know you men are just railroading me today it seems like you got mic too speak up speak up I was taught not to interrupt you weren't interrupting I just turn around and ask me if you could speak and speak yes go ahead please I would think it would be beneficial for this board and the commission to meet instead of putting staff in the middle of all of it I think we almost need a come to Jesus meeting for lack of any better phrasing that we need to find out and get some things ironed out with us we did it with the comprehensive plan we need a workshop with the Commissioners and the city manager and this board I think we would be able to hash out a lot of this and try to get it going instead of Staff will you take it to the commission commission back this way if we just get in one room and discuss it I think we can make some good Headway I love that idea can we call it on our home turf like on a Thursday at 2 o'clock they got to come here it does have to be a public meeting the one you know the thing is I would ADM what I did I met with every commissioner everyone and I discussed uh you know what I felt and the upshot of the meeting on uh August 20th was what I had been pushing to the Commissioners I mean every one of them came back and said oh yeah we don't want to have uh time increment between building permits uh they did want to mandate the floor levels but uh it's pretty obvious the C citizenry didn't want to do that and the biggest thing was they want to get rid of the prohibition of fill the one last point I want to make was September 4th and you reminded me of this uh Russ we had some great rainstorms here like 3 Ines per hour storm drains are not designed for that kind of uh uh rainfall they're designed for like I heard an inch I heard as much as three Ines but anyway whatever it was the city of uh St Petersburg storms system couldn't handle it roads flooded everywhere during that day I was just looking at my tide table we had low tides flood at all the only time we get flooding out here and the last time we've had water in the streets was on uh the last New Moon here in August and I went out and took pictures I mean it's coming up out the sea out of the storm drains so we don't flood from rainfall we flood from tides and that's uh and that's that's what we're trying to guard against and uh the ultimate bad situation is Hurricane Debbie 100 miles offshore and a full moon high tide and we're going to all get we're going to have a bunch of houses with water in them again that's what we're trying to uh alleviate thank you everybody we'll move on uh any reports to city the attorney staff for board members hold on for d for Diane's comment is that something that's doable could you hold a joint meeting yeah I mean a joint public meeting could be held we just have to okay so where would that be an LPA or a pnz thing a commission thing a commission thing but um they rank us but that being that being said they also get they also get paid and have free health insurance there's no LPA next LPA meeting on this document hold on I'll fix that um so what we'll need to do is we'll need to bring this request to the commission that the LPA is requesting a joint meeting to discuss these issues and see if they want to have that joint meeting and if both boards want to have it then we'll set up a joint meeting yeah I I'm okay with that I'm in agreement I would like why don't you pull everybody well you can request can we just take a vote or just take a vote do we have to vote on it I you don't have to vote on it I mean I can just ask them boards just exp I mean I've heard from one two three four five members that they'd all like to have that meeting let's do it well I'm not sure we need to at this point I knows after the 20th of uh August what the main thing I think this Board needs to do is finish our recommendation we just did a uh a motion and an approval on docs and we gave him a recommendation to the commission that they go ahead and approve it um you know one of the items that came up during the August 20th meeting was staff recommended denial of a variance this board recommended did uh approval of a variance and I got up there and spoke for the board and uh you know once again on the 20th I spoke about elevation uh T Elevate TI to the board they they're pretty familiar with what's going down but we really need to go ahead and finish our recommendation to the commission and if they want to have an joint meeting to discuss our recommendation then go ahead but uh no I really I agreed with you 100% Ross I didn't like being uh run around I mean you know we were did an in run around this board our you know was almost like we had no use I mean we've got a lot of experts on this board and it was our job to say we recommend approval of this with these conditions and you know I know we were trying to push things along get things going it was supposed to be a workshop it did not stay a Workshop I'm not trying to delay like Catherine's timeline I think it's just instead of the commission reviewing what Catherine's re excuse me when it comes to the commission doing their exact feedback for then Catherine to work and then Catherine come to us and then we say well we got to do this that and the other then then there's a potential that it's got to go back to the commission because it changed which direction that they were going in so D Miss cille's comment is more along the line of like let's head that off so Richard it kind of meets your ask of getting it done it's just going to be like I mean granted they're probably could be some other topics that maybe we talk to the commission about about what's going on but right now I know that this is a Hot Topic and I think that Diane's idea Richard is just trying to get there quicker without another round of back and for are we basically just wanting them to tell us what they want I mean in no that's that's kind of what you just said though basic meeting so that we know what they want got to come up up with what we want and make our recommendation I I agree with you but let's just just cuz I think they pretty much got the message at that 20th I saw I watched that meeting on TV let's say we let's say we put together what we want to do in regards to the handbook Katherine then submits it to the commission and they say nope it's got to it's got to be a different way then we we're back in we're back in the same spot and we've wasted a lot of time Ross I know that you you work so you have to take off time to come to I'll do anything for this city well the uh the thing is no but I appreciate that that's why I'm trying to say like do I want to be here at 8 o'clock on a on a Tuesday night no no I don't I don't I really don't I'd rather I spend the time on these Thursdays I think my attendance has been great other than one meeting in March um there's always that that meeting March that I miss so you know I'm I like the idea because I just feel like we keep putting them in the middle we're not getting anywhere I know that Richard wants to get this thing through I know other people want to get this you know get whatever this fill dirt situation is but it just feels like we keep going in different directions and we're probably going to be behind the timeline well the thing is Raj I job is to make a recommendation to the city commission they can agree or they can disagree but the thing is they can always take the ideas to take our recommendation and enhance that our recommendation they can modify it as well too and uh but the thing is in order to uh keep everybody in the loop and keep the discuss question in the open is yeah let's come up with our recommendation and then let's have a public joint meeting and we'll discuss it cuz uh I was using that variance as an example why was there s such a difference and I got up there and I explained it to them and oh okay understand it and it happened to be the variance for the reduction of density yep I was watching and uh you know the thing is let's do our job and yeah let's have a joint meeting that way uh we can sit there and we can express uh to the commission why we did what we did but we I really think we need to go ahead and get our ducks in a row and get our recommendation done because I really did not like uh them getting up there and voting because they voted do you Katherine do you want to get there didn't vote but if I could real quick I think what's G to end up happening is um that staff um is going to have to come back to the commission and so and to report on where they are and and kind of get feedback from the commission on next steps and what's going to go through this and at that time staff can easily identify the fact that this board has expressed a desire to meet with the commission to a to avoid um going through a process that could end up feeling feudal and that um and so I don't think there's any problem with that and then we can talk to the commission about when that timing could be because it may be that there's a certain amount of work that has to be done by staff before there's anything even to bring to you for you to consider to recommend okay so so can we just say that Katherine provides that feedback to the commission about us trying to meet if our next LPA meeting is on the calendar that they are invited to have this joint meeting with us and if they don't like the date and time then whatever at least we tried um we can I'll friendly we can all friendly remind them that they kind of put us in this mix in regards to the back and forth and I don't mind saying that um but I think that that's the best next steps and just see what they say and again I know that that may not be the next immediate meeting because of what um Jennifer just said okay thank you I definitely we'll we'll feed that through the city manager back to the commission um anything else because I was just going to talk about dates uh the next uh second Tuesday of the month is October 10th yes so we don't know if we will have anything for the LPA on October 10th so for we will be in touch we do oh I'm sorry we do we do have something we do have an October 10th the 17 we could do it whatever the way they'd like we could do it at the LPA or we could do it following pnz on the 17th I know for pnz on the 17th we have um four cases but it's really more like two because one Cas one address has a site plan a special exception and a variance application so technically it's three staff reports and three different uh you know decisions I know this board always likes to have the LPA following the pnz so so I think we could do that I don't think it's any it's is there I mean I may struggle on the 17th either if it's the LPA is going to be after because I have a hard stop on the 17th unfortunately like 4 4:30 do we I know some people don't like to start early do we want to start early no um well let's take a v just one person shouldn't be deciding I'm not I'm not saying that what would be the other options for the LPA uh we could do it on the 10th which is it's regularly scheduled what time would that be at um it's scheduled always for six but we can move it to the daytime if as far as we're concerned I believe Jen yes okay that's that's a key that I always forget whatevers on the 10 how long would you say that LPA meeting would be projected for like an hour probably yeah I mean I would propose LPA on the 10th at 4M because then that's kind of within the doesn't matter to us scope of work and that gets them out decent time I don't I don't want to be the you could do so if okay no but you're not good on the 10th in the morning or something or no I I was just usually these meetings are in the afternoon so I was just why don't we do it why aren't we doing it at 2 o'clock then like we know I don't know I was just trying to be convenient because the initial time is six and the other time is fine I think for what we a real estate broker and meet in the middle seems like that always happens you know in negotiations it doesn't matter to me so why don't you send out your usual uh email and we'll all respond we're all in agreement that 2:00 works that is fine with us well I know you always follow up with it anyway so let's aim for 2 o'clock on the 10th and then the 17th 2 O on the that be fine okay with me the the two two and two it's easy to remember and the 17th at 2:00 for pnz yes we may have one more case but if it is something I think it's only a preliminary plat and I'm not sure it's ready because I haven't had a chance to look at it okay okay moving on public comments anybody in the public unless you want to speak motion to adjourn please make a motion to adjourn today's meeting second thank you