1998 master plan we note that it also is consistent in terms of promoting new development Redevelopment that is consistent and compatible with existing settlement patterns and directing New Growth to environmentally suitable areas with existing infrastructure and I will also note that it is consistent with the state development Redevelopment plan because this is a planning area one where new develop uh Redevelopment of existing sites is encouraged with that I'll take any questions anyone might have question from the board questions from the public like to sum up or you finish that that covers it um that that tried to to the Redevelopment plan into a handful of slides um but obviously if anyone wants to get into the Weeds on anything happy to answer them but uh that's about it okay uh ask the board for a motion to approve Liberty Avenue Redevelopment to be referred to the township committee so moved second second roll call James Johnson yes Michael Cohen yes Jeffrey East yes Stephen Lee Yes Alfred Miller yes Patty faser yes James Bowser yes Joseph R Yesa KH yes thank you everyone okay Mr hail I understand we're doing a redo on uh creative Property Management yes and what I'd like to do and I know I I'm assuming some some of the crowd is here for your presentation I just want to share the form of order of the way things we do here so there's no confusion uh what happens here is the attorney Mr hail will uh call a witness the witness will be sworn in to tell the truth uh Mr hail will ask him some questions and the witness will make pres a presentation after that's done as a form of order uh the board will be given the opportunity to ask the witness for questions after that the public will be asked to uh give questions to the uh to the witness it's a Q&A only uh you'll have plenty of time to make whatever comments you want to make after the witnesses have been called and that's fine and the board will certainly consider it uh the last time we met here I believe it was April Mr Hil believe so meeting uh there were we had quite a few us uh residents who uh came to the meeting some of them had very legitimate questions on the application and frankly some of them had some very unrelevant U questions on the application we cannot um when it comes to things like and I'll give you an example uh we had a witness or one of the residents asked about illegal aliens and people running around with no clothes on and things like that we can't consider that uh it has to the that's really irrelevant and also we can't consider it because we are bound by federal and state uh housing laws but if you have any relevant questions on the actual application itself you're more than welcome to ask questions on it but as far as anything else about uh those two topics that I just mentioned then the board cannot by law consider it okay Mr Hill you like to call yes great uh thank you Mr chairman now we again we were here a couple of months ago presented the executive director of uh Community Access unlimited 501c3 that has throughout uh Union County numerous Community residences uh presented testimony from architect as the design of the house and also uh our engineer took a suicide plan we hadn't gotten to our planner yet but let me just again recap and exactly what you've indicated uh Mr chairman we're here uh for a community residence and under State Statute and I'll paraphrase Community residence for persons with developmental disabilities shall be a permitted use in all residentials districts of the municipality and the requirements therefore shall be the same as for single family dwelling units with within such districts so we're governed by it's permitted use it's mandated by Statute just as you indicated and we uh are bound by single family residential standards um so in essence as you've indicated Mr chairman we're here because we we're seeking relief minor relief we consider for two variances one is the setback and you'll hear from our professionals we want the setback because it'll provide area where again we have people with disabilities so there may be a vehicle where a wheelchair has to get out and you'll hear from our engineer that by pushing the homes back it provides an area where it's flatter and they can do it without ramps and and the like so it it provides that and the steep slope is more of a a technical or engineer and or plan will touch on that but uh we've been investigated there's nowhere on this lot that it could be utilized without some steep slopes to serpent s or minimizing that so from the last hearing what we did there was concern uh regarding the front yard fence so I think we indicated at the hearing we're going to withdraw our request for that so Revis plans were submitted to uh eliminate that front yard fence and then uh the other was there was concern about know buffering and landscaping again we're we're bound to single family residential standards but we've agreed and the revised plans and I'll recall our engineer to touch on the additional Landscaping that that was provided so uh again we're here before this board seeking relief and again we consider a minor for the set back and then the deviation for this steep slope but again even if that was some front back wherever we're going to need uh uh deviation from steep slope and we'll have again adequate justification for that thank you Mr how many witnesses do you plan on call just our we recall Mr Bachi our engineer and Nicholas gravan our professional planner poter Architects are here but I will also add that the house complies with all bulk standards we don't need any deviations for impervious coverage height setbacks other than the front yard setback we don't encroach on any front uh too close to the street too close to the back too close to the sides we we maintain all of those thank you Mr ill and I understand that there was a community outreach yes we did after the last meeting we had a community Outreach meeting over at the kns Columbus there we got into just so people would if they hadn't heard of Community Access and and the community uh residents throughout the county we held that at the nights Columbus we had members of Community Access there along with some of the residents and and other and uh they explained how they work work in the community some uh uh work at different places throughout throughout the county so it was a nice it was a nice event thank you your first okay so I'd like to recall Mr Joseph Bachi Mr B would you recite your name for the record please Joseph vachi B AI thank you please swearing the witness Please Mr V you swear the testimony about to give is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth yes and Mr Bachi I know you're previously sworn and qualified but if kind you briefly give your credentials to the board sure uh 2012 graduate of Ruckers University with the BS in civil engineering uh been been licensed since 2017 as a professional civil engineer my license is in good standing active um I've appeared before this board a number of times and many other boards throughout the state I would offer Mr bot as a professional engineer so order okay great so Mr fi obviously you're uh well familiar with this project if you could highlight for the board the revisions that were made to the plans focusing on the elimination of the front yard fench and the additional landscaping and I think you did want to then touch on the uh from an engineering standpoint the relief for the setback and the steep slope yes we'll do uh there a pin required yeah but I think got loed out thanks uh so I'll go through the changes we made on this plan uh previously went through the whole site plan um as Mr hail mentioned so I'm just going to highlight the changes uh that were submitted to the board and what you have up there I the latest version that was in fact submitted uh in connection with the application yeah these were revised um sorry uh July 12th 2024 uh so I'm going to jump to sheet two which is a revised site plan um as Mr hail indicated we did uh we we saw the the board Engineers comments uh and general you know comments sorry from the public this isn't working toing great um and I'll direct you to the bottom left here we have um our Landscaping plan I know that was one of the concerns uh a you know the number of trees uh being removed uh and buffering of the neighbors uh so we do have quite a few just typical Foundation plants around the building we're also proposing a number of trees along the along the driveway here um so it doesn't show the full picture uh we also are proposing a number of trees along the property line bear with me for a second I think that's a touchcreen too um so yeah apologies so we do have a number of trees being just to give you a reference point trees uh in this area on the North and and to the South here along with the foundation plantings um we did remove the proposed fence in the front yard uh we are still seeking relief for the 100 foot front yard setback as Mr hail touched on you can see we have this drop off area here uh so setting the house back further and elongating the driveway allows for room of this uh drop off area um likewise we have from the sidewalk we have a nice 5% maximum slope on this walkway coming to the house if we were to put the house at the 25 foot yard setback up here we would need fully compliant Ada ramps that would include railings um we we just don't think that would be aesthetically pleasing so pushing it back left is to lower the the slope of the ramp not require handrails um and that way it's just I think more esthetically pleasing than have these metal railings right in the front yard at 25 ft or or a little bit closer in front of the house um regarding the steep slopes I'll go to the survey which is not up uh has not been revised um but you can see here on the survey the steep slopes really exist to the on the Northern portion and then cut across the site here so there would effectively be no possible way to develop anything on this site whether it was you know you know single family house anything could not be developed on the site because the steep slopes come across the the site here so you would have to disturb them to develop anything there um and I think there's justification in the ordinance uh regarding unnecessary hardships for the owners um you know if you're you're kind of exempt from from the being prohibited from develop from developing on steep slopes if it if it provides that hardship there so it would have to remain an empty lot without uh disturbing them I think that really covers the the changes we had right Mr chairman I have no further questions at this time question from the board Mr BOS you where's the uh FDC going to be for homes fire department connection is that do I ask you or is Mr Hil for that fire department connection where's that for the sprink think the architect might Mr Potter punted that away last time pot wherever wherever the we'll work with fire wherever they feel it it's most accessible certainly comply with any requirements okay yeah well said Mr chairman um I have a question how many staff would be employed here and is there parking for the staff on site and not on the street uh there is yeah sorry there's parking in the rear let me zoom in here uh so there's four spaces in the rear there's also you know plenty of room within the driveway um as additional parking as needed but we um the last meeting we Steve I forget how many employees total it was but I there's there was adequate uh parking we want to make sure there was adequate parking on site so I know there's those those four spaces um and yeah I want to say it's only it's two to three staff maximum and the residents don't drive okay thank you yes um so you you talked about the the tree coverage and the trees that are going to be planted uh one of the concerns is sound buffering with the Garden State Parkway which ab buts the rear of the property uh would it be possible to uh plant additional trees along the property line perhaps to a depth of 10 feet or so to provide a sound an additional sound buffer in the rear yes uh yeah I think we we can comply with that there are existing trees back there but we can plant additional trees um if you maybe make that subject to your engineers riew is there and I'm I apologize I did review the plans but is there going to be a fence along the property line as well uh no fence proposed okay landscaping and there's a there is a oh I'm sorry there is a fence I misspoke on the sidey yes yes on what about at the back yes and in the rear I'm sorry there's a fence to delineate the wetlands that's what it is gotcha okay thank so really just protects the wetlands back there uh we obviously can't plant trees um back there uh without going through all the hoops and ladders of of njd approvals so this area that's really I will say though you're in line with the house here um so I think that actually provides some sound barrier itself for the residents you know at least on this side of the street uh I would say We'll PL trees to the extent practical in this I mean most of the Yards there wouldn't be a problem back here and that grid is a a drainage basin correct yes we'd be far enough away from that any other questions from the board just a couple questions just to follow up on on the trees in particular in your Landscaping plan um actually if you could just scroll back to where you were and I just want to get clarification in terms of what some of these sys May mean so the U kind of the jagged Circle represents basically a tree right um uh yeah I'm not which one in particular they're all kind of jagged circles asking for a particular Tree in part because I'm not I'm not a tree specialist myself but basically any of those uh for example you scroll up a little bit any of the circles that that look Jag it that had like a number and a debris sign next to it I assume that that represents a tree right yes uh these three up here trees pink flowering dogwood oak tree uh the other symbols represent uh ground cover and smaller shrubs mostly for the foundation plantings so the the trees are really limited to to this area up here and and down here so kind of on the side yards in the front Okay um so the areas that you have the X on these are trees to be removed these those are trees we removed yeah and that's for grading purposes and so when you scroll back up and the reason why I just want clarification here is that really when you look at the trees that that are adjacent to the parkway um closest to the parkway that are adjacent really you're disturbing maybe one two three arguably four and meanwhile you have all those other trees represented in those jaged circles still being maintained especially in I guess in that Wetlands buffer area as well right yes okay question from the board I have a question is there any reason why there's uh equipment and construction material on the property now I'm not aware of that the last four months no I know all right so yeah I've wasn't involved in any any of that everything needs to be done the right record please and if you want to during the Q&A you'll be offered to opportunity answer questions but it has to be on the record and it can't be from the because our our the system we have just doesn't record it we have that everything on the record I hope you understand that Mr chairman a followup for Mr Bachi could you uh move the drawing to the left a little bit to get back to the front yard no the that's it so it all of those xout trees must be removed in order to be able to do the the site work yeah we're we're significantly you can see all these thicker dark lines here we're regrading the site to make it you know work and be feasible so you can't leave the you can't regrade all that and keep the trees okay thank you question from the board yeah and I will I will check as to what the purpose of the construction equipment is thank you Mr all right now for questions from the public uh like I said what we'll ask you to do is come up and sit s next to the microphone identif identify yourself um and you can ask the but it has to be Q&A it has to be question and answer the time to make a speech or whatever you want to do will occur when they rest and when they're finished with their presentation okay all right yes sir come on up thank you for coming up Sir you please recite your name my name is Edward Hardis Edward Hardis I reside at 1249 smage Avenue New Jersey question WT um Mr lawyer can I just ask you one question if you sir you have to speak in the mic yes uh I believe you have a meeting you had a meeting with few of our uh colleagues at where I reside and um this were your statement I'm not going to quote but the message is the same I'm going to say did you tell them that there is a fund of New Jersey allocation to the board of Union that what everything we do the project is going to go on because there's a fund available by state of New Jersey and it has been given to the union board so it's weaking our people from coming deciding that did you tell them sir question don't sir you saying that uh there is a New Jersey allocated a fund all right sir you'll have a chance to make a presentation when they rest they're not rested yet they're still no no no I'm asking a question did he because that is why most of our people are not here today they saying that decision has already been made we are just wasting our time coming here no I I'm not trying to stop you sir I don't even know what question you're asking so I'm asking you as chair what this the question yeah he had a meeting a few of our people were there about six or seven and he make them to inform that we are just wasting our time to come and fight who's he the lawyer Mr hail yes sir that would be I would be stunned if Mr halil said that to you sir totally untrue you weren't there that's no that this is this is what I'm trying to tell you the message you sir he gave you his answer excuse me point of order point of order you can't have this while we have cameras going on and everything all can I have the engineer please sir he answered your question sir I know you're an engineer professional but can you fight nature because what you are showing us now you're going to give a diagram saying that there will be drainage of water you know when it rains in New Jersey all right sir you have to ask give me an opportun I'm asking a question now you know it rains in opportunity to answer sir and uh they have a slope on Earl Street all those people that live on Earl Street down at the slope don't you think their basement will be flooded when it rains because you're going to cut down the trees no we have a detention Basin proposed that'll collect all the rain water from the site sir now can you find nature sir sir he asked you he answered your question what did you say go on we have a detention Basin that's been designed in accordance with accepted engineering practices as this work because what I'm saying is I have never seen any new engine that fights nature because no one has for if if you can fight nature trust me you'll be a billionaire because this is rain you're going to remove all the trees sir I'm going to cut you off you have to ask a question give the opportunity to answer okay okay other and I don't want to have to cut you off but you really have to ask a question okay yeah I've already asked him the question are you going to remove how many trees do you have you seen this land have you have you've practically seen this land yes I have we're removing uh 10 to 20 trees do you know how many Tre there have you estimate approximately counted them now but it's very common you know this is you you develop land that's all you know every every house that was is built in Union was previously vacant and then a house was built okay Mr lawyer I have another question for you are we aware of any ordinance in New Jersey stating that if you cut down a health tree you have to replace it with two trees so you're asking for legal advice no he's not going to answer you question asking for legal advice you have you have to ask him questions I want testify okay you going to cut down you said 10 trees uh this site I believe is uh 14 14 trees for a two structural building where are the do you do you have the structures I don't have the architectural plans now are you going to cut down just 10 trees does that make sense sir yes it does no sir okay any other questions sir there's so many but I have to sit down and I give others opportuni to come we a few others to come up thank you thank you sir uh Mr Bachi uh you might want to explain to the uh residents that uh as part of your Landscaping plan uh you're going to be replacing a number of these trees is that isn't that correct that is correct yes we have uh we're proposing six trees uh forget how many of are being cut from this lot but we are replacing some and again we have a detention Basin into mitigate the impacts from tree removal and and construction of the home um and again designed in accordance with accepted engineering practices to detain the water and then meter it out slowly um it's done on just about every project I work on all right thank you uh before I call the next W I just want to emphasize the question is for the witness not the lawyer uh the allegation that was made against Mr hail is something I would be stunned if it was accurate and I really don't want to get into that uh he's an honorable lawyer one of the best in the business and if you want to make allegations of impropriety on Mr hail um that's not what we're here for and frankly I I I I'm not buying it and it doesn't help your argument at all so um it with that said please keep your questions to the witness and please be professional and let's get through this okay okay all right uh anybody else have any questions sir come on [Music] up good evening everybody even name is mororo m o uh last name is b b n a r o ta thank you I'm on uh Earl Street there and I would just like to know uh when's the start time for this uh it depends on getting approvals um I I couldn't answer that I'd like to know to how long's it going to take to do uh say a few months few months yeah for you know grading construction of the home um what would happen uh during this process with the street is going to be shut down the street I wouldn't anticipate that because there is no line of sight I'm sorry questions only um I just like to know about the parking and the street being shut down it's a very busy street as it is right now I just want to know what are you going to do about that um you know there'll be some temporary disturbance here on the within the RightWay um that wouldn't I imagine last long the construction of this concrete sidewalk uh but generally there's plenty of room on site to store construction equipment okay um Etc I I wouldn't I can't see the street being shut down for that you know maybe no parking here uh for a short duration well there's no there's no parking here now anyway okay okay those are only your questions for now thank you sir thank you sir any other questions from the public uh the W oh hi you were here last time come on up how you doing I can't complain you please recite your name for the record and your and your address please sure I'm Linda revak and it's 68 Earl Street okay please ask questions of the witness please okay um I did have some questions and I believe for for clarification are we talking about one of the properties or both of the properties just one uh the southern so so so I don't know what uh down downhill the the bottom of the hill not the top of the hill correct okay so I know I read somewhere that 19 trees were being removed that was from one of the properties I don't know which one that was yeah I just confirmed it's 14 for this property so it's 14 from this property and 19 from the other property those woods are very thick and they do block the noise from the parkway so the small trees that you're going to replace these with they're going to be small these are huge oak trees and maple trees are are they going to stop the sound the same way that the current trees do uh I'm not an expert on sound mitigation I will point out though that you have this whole structure here that's you know spanning most of the width of the property within the sidey setbacks but the structure itself should block sound as well it's not the same as a tree the other thing is is that you you mentioned that there's um a f a fencing from the wetlands uh so yeah to clarify we have fencing proposed over here that kind of blocks out the um we're trying to kind of keep the wetlands protected and putting fence around it I understand but won't that fence stop the right of passage for the Wildlife that goes through there I was there today there's deer in there and the deer should have a right to pass through to those wetlands and go through the way they normally do now I mean they they'll be able to get around it it's not blocking this whole area so limited so if there's a fence it's not going to block anything what's the point go they can move around the fence what's the point of a fence if it block if if it doesn't block anything it's not going to like trap the deer or anything the deer will just walk around the fence then I misunderstand so the on on your plan isn't the line in the back the fence this this is fence continues up here comes into the house so if so I don't like so how are the deer going to get around a fence if it blocks it in I guess hypothetically a deer could come this way and and go that way but isn't that the second property above it and won't there also be a fence there I suppose a deer could come down this way and go through that property no because that's that already has a fence that already has a fence for the property on the bottom so in another words Q&A so so from what I see that fence looks like it's going to stop the wildlife from their right of passage is there a way to correct that so that that will not affect the wildlife that exists now uh I'm not really sure about the deer's uh kind of how they move and and where they want to go and Etc well they they go to the wetlands right so there's water back there I couldn't hear you um so that's an issue that I see is an a problem um the grading of the trees I know you said that you did studies and that um you're going to have the water run down a different way when you in in your um profession when you pull tree establish trees out and how do you do the grading like do you like take bulldozers and flatten it so how is it is the the driveway going to go down to the property cu the street is up here yeah yeah so just to zoom in a little more uh these are our elevation you can see the numbers elevation 85 down to 80 it continues going down driveway specifically and sorry touch screen's not cooperating um in this corner you see here we have a um an inlet to collect that water coming down the driveway as well as this is all grading down and it all gets collected and we have uh gets piped to this detention Basin here and what happens in there is it it stores all the water and there's a small 2 and a half inch diameter I believe or you know small pipe coming out of there so it collects all the water the water level rises and it slowly comes out of that bottom orifice there so that's how we mitigate excessive runoff to the neighbors is by you store it it's a big tank and then it slowly comes out of this small you know orice this big so majority of the site is being collected it's not going to run off to the neighbors so the so maybe I just don't understand which so here's here's the here's the top of the hill right you're talking about the property on the bottomm so you're going to get rid of some the the trees and you're going to get rid of the dirt so how it's going to be grassed but I'm sorry I didn't mean to cut you off yeah so you have to grade it so that it's a slope which it already is a Ste sleep steep slope so how are you going to level it out so that it goes to the property without there being a steep incline I don't understand it'll still remain relatively steep in this area we're softening it a little bit but you know drop of water that falls here where my cursor is it it comes down this hill this will still be a hill it flattens a bit on the driveway so it comes down we'll enter the driveway come down collect here be piped to the detention Basin I I don't know if I'm answering your question and maybe I'm not answer asking it correctly so the driveway for the bottom property is going to be at the base of the Hill uh correct yeah yeah yeah this is the bottom here so this is like the low point in the corner here the current state that's an existing low Point still going to remain a low point right down there and that that does go against the property at the the next property over my concern have you done the traffic study because if anybody could ask these folks anybody who goes up or down that Hill people coming down the hill can't see the people going up the hill it's quite narrow and I mentioned this last time it's quite narrow there so anybody going up the hill can't really see the people coming down the hill so if people are coming down the hill and somebody's trying to come out of your driveway that's going to be a traffic Hazard so I believe last time we were here the thought was that a traffic um plan was going to be developed also because of the parking situation there is no parking anywhere so so H have you done a track traffic plan or check to see the safety of that bottom driveway with the consistency of the road and how it goes down uh first regarding parking we've established that there's adequate parking on site uh regarding the safety of the driveway it's not uncommon to have a driveway on a hill at a bottom of a hill um I think it's perfectly safe for a single family home to have a driveway at the bottom of the hill I grew up near one it just you have you know people when you are at the crest of a hill you're usually careful when you're coming up a hill drivers are careful it's well I saw a near Collision the other day just we also the the the change in grade and and red and removing some of the trees that are along the property line here will help visibility as well that won't help visibility because the site of the um Street there's no trees on that on the hill um so has a traffic study been done I've not done a traffic study no in my opinion it's not a hazard okay um have has there been an environmental study to see the effect on the wildlife or the removal of the trees you mentioned in your comments that because of the grading really nothing could be built there and on honestly that's probably why nothing has been built there when all of our homes were built so has there been any environmental study done to check the effect on the wildlife the Green Space the effect that green space has on community residents uh not by me is that something that we would consider we would like to see something like that done and although I know you say you have this whole plan with the the way the water drains and all of that from a logical point of view to many of us it doesn't appear that that's going to stop possible flooding especially into the bottom of the hill um question so would there be any consideration of doing any other type of study especially I especially for the bottom um property the the next property down that that there is definitely no um flooding issue I mean if if the board wants I could do a more comprehensive um analysis of the storm water but I I would say this is a yeah we've done a a detailed engineering plan that's been reviewed by the township engineer and we'll be subject to their review because I I read in something here I'll I'll tell you this is a for a house of this size this is a a very large Basin and the wooded you know the wooded area has was a consideration this is relatively large compared to what I'm typically designing for a house of this size and I would think that it's large because of the slope and the fact that this is a potential for for flooding the other question I had was um the last time we were here it was stated that each home is going to be 4,6 62 I think it is square feet and we raised the issue of um because the executive director says they try to fit into the neighborhood so I know someone from the board had asked us well what's the square footage of our homes so my home the square footage is 1,500 square fet these are going to be 4600 square fet and how does that fit into the neighborhood it's going to that's that's not quite engineering not really my expertise a little more architectural but I will say that it complies with the height requirements for for the zone and the side yard and rear yard setback so it fits in what the town is looking for but it does change the the the way the community it looks because it doesn't look anything like us um and maybe this isn't a question for you but every place that I've seen Community Access build homes they're much smaller and they do more or less fit into the community why would it be such that these homes are going to be so large really not a question I can answer okay okay um and the and I guess maybe this question you can't answer either all of the other areas where Community Access has has Built Homes there one home in this case you're putting two homes and I I guess it's because of the property that was the town sold but that brings on an additional burden on the community to have two homes instead of one okay sorry um would there be any opportunity instead of having one two to just remove and just have one I don't think that's really any I I can't answer that I'm really just here for the engineering of the sites we do have okay and when will we discuss the second home that's just that's the next application when this one's completed right we're doing one application at a time man okay um so from from what I get you're willing to do a more extensive environmental study as well as a more extensive traffic study this is governed as we said at the outset we're governed by the rules for one family homes and that's the zoning that's required there's no requirement for environmental study there's no requirement for a traffic study it's no different than if someone is building a one the single family home for themselves that's the rules that apply for Community residents so that people can't come and try and keep people with developmental disabilities out of the neighborhood thank you Mr any further questions ma'am I I guess not would there be any consideration to move the driveway because that is going to be an issue for the safety of the community uh if the board would like that we'll consider that okay those are my questions thank you ma let's see person all the way in the back under the sign in green all right you oh oh he's ladies first as far as not concern please recite I don't know if this is a question for you my name is Roberto Jones I live 1240 schmir Avenue the last time the lady was here she said that it's going to be two adults that's going to be supervising these children and it's only going to be three I guess they going to be adults or children that they're going to be taken care of just now listening what do you need 46,000 46,000 ft for five people this is what she said yeah that's out of mother engineering so that question doesn't get answered because this is why we here we here to find answers and question to the answers that we want because we live around 12:40 Smith Avenue Earl so my question is what do they need 46 ft for five people in one house I would say the building is we're not asking for a variance for building size or square footage or anything like that we're looking for a variance for front yard setback so setting it back uh and disturbance of the steep slopes the size of the building has okay do with that question with all your knowledge you don't think that's a lot of space for just five people no because that's what my concern is if you're going to do one of these um housing at 46 Square ft and you're only going to house five people why like she said why do you need so many rooms why can't you only build one that's outside of my expertise but there are other Witnesses ma'am who may have may have your question for you thank you sir hello again sir how are you uh my name is Richard Bowman I reside at 1219 Schmidt Avenue I have uh basically two questions this is uh this is the southern one at the uh bottom of the slope talk the mic sir please I'm in Schmid Avenue so I'm more can angle it up hi I'm at Schmid Avenue so I'm more concerned with the northern one but watching this um presentation I guess what's probably putting people off on the drainage issue which is my first question is as you describe it the catch Bas will be north of the bottom of the hill the the catch Bas is the sketchy lines yeah you just had it up there this is the this is the catch Basin that I mentioned that collects from the driveway this is the detention Basin it's it's underground so how does the clear yeah no I'll understand that but at that point um I guess what people are seeing because of the Hill St gravity is going the wrong way you want to fill a catch uh the retention Basin is north of where it the water will all flow and then you want to push it back up the hill to there it's not it's not being pushed up this this the detention Basin is at a low point it's all you know underground so it's yeah well that's part uh that's another part that'll be leads into the second next question how are you retaining with what you're doing to the property the Integrity of Earl street so that there's no you know considering the steep slope of Earl Street itself that there's no giveway back into you know that the road doesn't start crumbling you know there's still going to be soil up against it um we Max outed 3 to one slope that's considered a stable safe slope uh so I don't see any reason to think that hurl Street will will subside now the uh then it comes to a question you made a statement about the property not being developable because of the grade there I'd like you to explain more on that because that is pretty much most of what the community's concern is they considered this property as not being able to be developed because of its state so what is it that allows this project to go through when you said just before if we didn't do that this wouldn't be a viable project yeah so you can't I meant you can't develop it without disturbing those steep slopes because they come across the site yeah that's that's why everyone in this community just never considered that area to be even H apolog to be developable so that that presents a hardship for the owner that they can't develop on their lot without well you chose to purchase that lot I mean it's not like it's a surprise that the the lot has an inconvenient grade it's also why it was I apologize uh it's also why it was significantly undervalue I mean that as I understand in the last discussion we determined that this was purchased at only $20,000 and will forever be property free uh property tax free sir question please well the question is um what is it that makes this viable now a project when you described before it wouldn't be viable with these uh so describe that process for us rephrase you can you can develop on you know anything right what I was saying is you can't without you wouldn't be able to do it if you didn't disturb the steep slope so you have to disturb the steep slopes to develop on this site that's yeah why do you have permission to alter the SL slopes because that's yes it's the natural grade of the uh of the uh of the of the hills it's why it was ignored for 70 years and the road was laid out that way so why do you have permission I don't know if it's from the board or we're seeking relief so the well the question is considering the natural state of the land why should the board agree to having the the land altern so you're asking we have a professional a professional planner that will adjust the planning justification for the Rel okay uh will they are they testifying tonight you go on the record okay then uh no sorry in your micophone okay thank you then I'll put that question to them uh then in the practical application of that describe to the audience what it is that what's going to be missing when we when you just like if you're a regular commuter who's just driving up that street right now we know what it looks like what will it look like once you're uh what what you've done to the road looks like how will it be different besides you know your facility yeah I mean there'll be less trees the facility as you mentioned will be there and the slope will uh the grading will be a little bit different in the front you're talking from a road perspective yeah if I was just driving I'm at the bottom of Earl I'm driving on up right now I know what it looks like what will it look like afterwards because no one here can actually picture the PO uh the actual development as it is and everyone's got these mental block in their head where none of this makes sense to them sure I mean the the slope of the area is going to change the grading is going to change um some trees are going to be removed so you'll see more of an open grass area with uh slightly more gentle slope okay in some areas and and maybe steeper in others uh is uh the northern uh building being discussed today or is that another night that's tonight as well thank you then okay so thank you any other questions from the uh the lady in the white top or the my my eyes are bad it might be yes it's you I'm sorry my eyes are bad it might good evening just give us your name go up to the mic and just give us your name and uh your residence please hello everyone um my name is Vita bman I live on Earl Street 1652 um I come to learn about this project in the beginning part of May I'm not sure if it was planned before but how I found out about it was a notice in my mailbox it wasn't even um like saying who it was from clearly but um I'm really concerned I have children question question um well he's the architect is really to the board okay we're going to have that after the after the uh applicant rests part of questions for the board right now we're just we're in the Q&A portion of the meeting for the architect only no for the witnesses that he calls okay okay for all the witnesses that he calls you you have plenty of time to address the board in that regard okay but let me just ask he's the engineer there is an architect that will testify in a few moments okay okay um and you're more than welcome to I do have a lot of questions really about the safety and the traffic pattern of it I know someone brought up um has it been a study about it I'm not sure if that's mandatory or not but it it really needs to be addressed because got ask a question oh um I know you you really not sure about that but are you able to address the safety and traffic concerns of our community regarding um how it will be or how it's proposed to be um after the project is going on and after it's finished as I said before we're here for Community residents that permitted in the one family Zone we're here seeking relief for setback and steep slope there's someone was building a one family home there's no requirement for traffic study these are treated and that's why there's a statute to protect people with disabilities I'm not really talking about the people with disabilities I'm talking about how it's going to affect our community we'll comply all all required sorry yeah you still need to ask a question and one more one more question okay is the um the is this just a formality because I'm really not clear about that is this just a formality you know the question answer towards the the witness that the project is going forward or this is for the form of order that we have here is to do exactly what we're doing okay this is not a formality this is a hearing the witness is under oath so this is not a formality whatsoever okay we are giving everyone a fair shake like did last time to ask questions of a witness and afterwards to uh present whatever information they have to the board they'd like so what you see here going on today is normal it's what we do all the time and this is the Q&A part and so as far as this being a formality it's absolutely not a formality I can tell you okay one more question maybe for you no I can't answer your question oh maybe not for you well someone who can answer the question because there was a a meeting that was supposed to happen in may like right before Memorial Day and it was postponed then in June it was supposed to be another question for him yeah I don't know who my questions are for because I'm TR I'm I have these concerns and I'm not I'm trying to be respectful and understand the process yeah sure but I I don't should I wait until after well if it's about the me are you talking about the community outreach meeting that they had I not reached I'm sorry I wasn't reached and I live Community I'm not sure about anyone else okay I think that sounds like what you're it sounds like what was it the Nights of Columbus no I didn't know anything about it I don't know how they um re how did they go about reaching out to the community called no that's that's the name is community outreach and what happens is what we did last time is we suggested to the applicant that they do a community outreach to the residents so that their information is presented to them before the next meeting and that's done really more as as a as an information session uh than anything else and I wasn't there either don't get me wrong but ACC to Mr Hil one was conducted at the nights of Columbus uh a while back and when was it and how did you reach out to the community I I because I don't know man I don't know how that was done okay do you want to answer or who should answer he's the lawyer he he the lawyer I don't know who's going to answer how did they reach answer for you today um because I I wasn't there either uh so but I I do know that it doesn't sound like uh our witness has the answer for you so we'll have to find it from somewhere else okay so I'll wait until yeah wait see what happens to what to how the other winess the other where come in if you still have questions if we don't have an answer for you I promise we'll get back to you that's all I can tell you okay okay thank I'm trying to go for the ones who are for the first time okay sir in the green is there any other than the gentleman in the in the gray shirt is there anybody else that wants to do a uh Q&A over here okay good thank anyone else okay hi hello your name and your residence please Scott Watson 1641 Earl Street sure enough and again so this is a Q&A is a question and answer so I understand thank you sir you stated regrading the property by regrading do you mean the destruction of the forestation that's currently in place yes we're removing 14 trees we're not destroying all the trees or you testified that you did not count the trees who counted the trees sir uh what do you mean the total number of trees on site sure asking who counted the trees sir um you specifically stated 14 trees who counted I counted 14 being removed total existing trees I don't know off the top of my head you don't know who counted the trees I counted 14 being removed sir did you go to the location Sor believe he answered your question he doesn't know he doesn't know who count he doesn't know who you have a are you yeah surve our surve go out and identify all the trees so surveyors have gone out and counted each individual tree they identified them on the plan I don't know if they were counted okay you have testified of a basin that's being created for the runoff correct correct so that Basin being designed is designed to hold all the water in event of a rain to prevent flooding correct yeah it's it's designed to mitigate Peak runoff off site it depends on the size of the storm whether it'll hold all of it or not okay so in in Peak run off when this Basin exceeds its capacity what happens I mean that it runs off uh it gets discharged into the scour holes and runs off site sir when this Basin exceeds its capacity where will that water go it'll go off the property so it will not impact the residents whatsoever it will not I mean if if there's a massive hurricane everyone gets impacted right what what we do when we design these basins is you look at what the existing condition is and how much runoff is going off site currently and you now you know right we're taking down trees we're we're increasing the impervious coverage so you're going to have more runoff without a basin so you put a basin in to counteract that so the the goal is you have the maximum you have running off site is equal to what's currently running off how many of these project for example how many of these projects have you worked on of projects in general yeah in your career hundreds has the Basin ever been exceeded not to my knowledge okay I mean if you're talking about catastrophic events you know uh Hurricane Sandy I'm sure plenty of basins exceeded their capacity but it would have to take in your opinion it would have to take a catastrophic event for this Basin to exceed its capacity yeah what you typically do is you design to the we we look at a 100e storm you know a 1% chance of a happening a year and with that storm the goal is do you have uh no increase of peak runoff rate in your expert opinion it would take a catastrophic event a 100-year storm for this Basin to be exceeded I I believe he answered that question sir I didn't hear it yes I'm sorry yes for the peak runoff to exceed the current Peak runoff yes okay you have also testified to the behavior of animals and various Wildlife on record I wouldn't say I testified to them I answered the previous person's that's testimony sir sure I testified okay are you an expert in that area no that's what I stated that I don't know the patterns of you testified to you have to let him finish answering question I testified that I don't know the travel patterns of deer but you did testify to the travel patterns of the deer no I testify that I do not know the travel patterns of deer hypothetical about how they may travel okay is there a wildlife expert present not to my sorry that's not a question for you I I withdraw that uh you also testified to traffic patterns specifically addressing that you did not feel that there would be an impact correct the traffic patterns I don't recall him testifying to that sir what are you talking about he answered questions in regards to I said there's adequate parking on site no you specifically answered questions in regards to the traffic on Earl Street I heard you answer the questions sir are you qualified to answer questions about traffic patterns as a civil engineer I can discuss traffic yes okay so you're qualified so and I'm not an expert in uh Transportation traffic engineering but uh civil engineering under that umbrella is uh yeah traffic you feel comfortable answering those questions some questions regarding parking and uh no I mean specifically to the impact on Earl Street there was no traffic study done so just like there wouldn't be if a when you you know if you were to build your house down the street you wouldn't do a traffic study I appreciate no further questions my house isn't 4600 feet sir thank you I want to get the who want to go first then I'll call you okay sir anyone yes you in the green shirt sir yes good evening sir please recite your name and address for the record into the microphone please Gus Lorenzo 2774 large Mountain Road pleasure to meet you sir I got a question I have a question about uh the trees right you say you removing 14 trees she said correct now the person who la laid out white trees is going to remove be removed it's going to be like a you say in the uh civil like uh not to cut you off we have them laid out on here identified with the X's the question was who determines that it's going to be 14 or when you get to the site it might be 21 who's who's going to who determines that we do we're showing 14 on our plan and the town will hold us do that okay now the other question was removing you're removing the trees because of the drainage right you're going to cut back on that uh what is it go ahead sorry not quite I I when I talked about the drainage relating to trees I was speaking how the drainage is compensating for the for the lack of trees but we're we're removing these in the front because we have to regrade the front of this property change the slope and everything and and also there's trees within the footprint of the proposed and what about the one on arrol Street you're removing trees there too on the side there in this right along ear yeah yeah yes so my question is and you're saying those trees can't go back in right because of the way you're cutting the slope down right for drainage um I mean we have to remove them in order to grade it yeah because you got to get the machine a the equipment and all that to get all that done but why why can't you finish this answer sir please go ahead um like you have you have to remove them so we're able to move all this dirt around yeah I understand that uh the question is I after you get all that done and everything right you get why can't you put a retaining wall to pring you know and put proper drainage on a retaining wall so you could plant some of those trees back in place I've seen that done plenty of times I um I just don't see a need to do that is it a need or is it a cost I mean I worked in construction for 42 years and Sor you got a let him answer the question I'm sorry I just don't see the point we can naturally grade the slope I would always choose that option over a retaining wall if I have enough room to grade and have a nice natural lawn and less concrete and and everything it's that's how I see it the question is what you see or what the community sees you follow what I'm saying I I know what you're looking at see what do you think it's right and then when you plan these trees what are the size of these trees are these are going to be like at planting uh I think two and a half two to two and a half inch Cal at planting okay but just put it to like a something everybody would understand what's the the length how tall is going to be the tree yeah maybe six foot something like that all right six foot and you re you're taking trees that are what 20 foot I mean how long does it take to a for a tree to reach that height I'm not sure off the top I I understand that I'm not trying to be a wise guy but uh what I'm saying is like why can you put a a tree like that you could probably put a but it's going to cost a lot more money right to go out and buy a 15ot tree compared to a six foot tree and that's what it comes down to it comes out to the finance the cost and how fair should move this project but at the same talking you got to worry about what the you know what you got to do for the community question sir question yes so U that's all I had all right thank you sir thank you all right I think I saw yeah ma'am come on up how are you please recite your name and address I would love to chassity Santana 400 Forest Drive thank you so much welcome everyone so I don't live on this side of town and um I'm sorry Mr civil engineer as a civil engineer you look at this and you you you see it you have the vision right and just like this prior gentleman just said as a community we don't see it I I is this the only thing that you use in the civil engineer world to to show what things could really look like because I believe from from what I see here the abrasion is that we're looking at a black and white flat flat map right or or whatever you call this if we had more life and could see just like was saying at the bottom of the driveway top of the driveway all of that it it if it could if the vision was up here I think that the community would feel more comfortable with what is coming right so for example when you said the flat you have a question yes the question when C can you pull that up on on Google that address uh we don't have we don't have uh internet uh I'm not sure I don't know I would defer to the board we have we have a what's required we submitted our plans and it's been reviewed by the engineer including drain no yes and I agree and I agree with you what what I'm ma' yes we're governed by what is governed for one family home or in in and I love that and I love that and and I'm a friend I'm here I'm a friend of everyone the community I live here everyone on this side but what I'm saying is for example when we when you were talking about the prior slope I think there was the question of if I'm driving by and I've never driven by the street or I probably have and don't know what what's the difference going to be so for example if we saw the difference of it right now it looks like this but once this is over it's going to look like this maybe that would that would have helped with the the comfortability of the community knowing what's to come so that that's what what I was looking at because I I understand the impact and the importance but looking at a black and white flat surface and and envisioning what's going to happen in your community is scary for the for for the com for moving forward so any questions in civil engineer world is this the best you got no I'm I'm serious is that like so for example I I work in in Corporate America I have PowerPoint I have word if I was to come here like what is it I I think you I don't know that um if I was in court I would um Jack for badgering the witness oh no so I'm not badgering I'm just no I think you are so please just ask a question so is this the best that you have as a visual to see it when when you're like for example moving trees or or doing things things of that nature what would that program look like because this is just a PF we provide uh it's developed from AutoCAD and we PDF it no no I don't think it's what he wants us to see aspects of it um Architects typically have some nice renderings and elevations that could help yeah okay yeah oh the last meeting they had it last they presented have illustration yeah architect provided that got it got it thank you so much thank you Miss antenna any other questions for the all right round two sir you want to come up hold up I'm sorry I'm sorry sir one second is there someone else over here okay up thank you and again sir would you please recite your name and address for the record Edward Hardis 1249 SM Avenue it's just a quick question Mr engineer what plans do you have in place for these animals when you start this project project because we have lot of them there are they going to end up in the highway and you know what is going to happen disaster what plans do you have for the animals when you start doing this project that's outside of my uh because I have lived there for 13 years and I've seen this animals that's what we bought the property for is a beautiful land what plans do you have who who can answer I think he answer that already sir that several times we said this is the first time I'm just and me and you have sir you have to go into the question you always come in all right sir I'm going to cut you off again and I really talking he always come in the lawyer we actually the weakness you asked him the same question three times I did not come to the microphone please sir micophone all right ask the question I've already ask can you answer the question please that that has nothing to do with this application of wildlife plan a plan for wildli sir I'm going to give you an opportunity to ask that's the question I want ask I've already asked can I ask it again you can ask it again but if he's already answered it it's asked an answer sir I don't think has he ever answer question ask the question please sir what plans do you have in place for the Wildlife and morals when you start this project because to me sorry sorry fin yeah go on go on at this time there's no plan in place it's not required to be in place there if if there's endangered species are discovered there or something you know that excuse me you say it's not it's not what are you trying to tell me that is it's not uh what what you call me what you don't have nothing in plan with this for in place for this animal that question so you're just going to leave it like that and build it is he answered your question sir that really has no bearing on the application no but trust me when you start this project you have to to you have to have plans for them because they're going to end up on the highway you're destroying the the inhabit what you expect them to go okay sir any questions it's yeah it's going to be disaster that's what I'm trying to say this is the Highway D that's not a question do you have a question I already asked him where why how you know just ask him a question ask the question has no answer he has no they have no as a do have other Witnesses coming up so you can feel free to ask them questions as well that might be more applicable to them all that thank you sir any other questions from the uh public any other second around any questions from the board all right Mr H would you please call your next witness please yes I'd like to call upon uh Nicholas graviano a professional planner we The Architects are here but they did present the plans at the last hearing yes Mr gr how are you sir good evening chairman please please uh recite your name please Nicholas graviano please swear in the witness Please Mr gravano you swear the testimony about to give us the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do Mr graviano if you could please please give the board and the public the benefit of your work educational experience area of expertise licenses you hold yes I hold a bachelor's degree from rucku University a master's degree in City Regional planning from rucky University a law degree from the Temple University School law where I received it to distinguish class performance in state and local government law I've testified in over 100 municipalities in 18 different counties I'm a licensed professional planner in the state of New Jersey and also hold an aicp certification and well if your licenses are in full force and effect then believe you testify before this in the zoning board uh in the township yes I would offer Mr gravano as a professional planner all right Mr graviano as you know we're here before this board seeking relief for the uh setback and steep slopes if you could please provide the planning justification for that relief certainly um the applicant is before the boort this evening requesting SE variant relief uh to construct a community residence you've heard the background of the community which uh the applicant serves uh this is an inherently beneficial use protected by the municipal land use law you heard Mr hail indicate that on numerous occasions I I agree with his statements on that um so what when you cut down to the basics of of this application there are only two real areas of relief that the applicant is requesting uh the first one relates to the front yard setback this Zone requires a front yard setback of of a maximum of 35 ft uh the applicant is proposing 100 ft uh second uh the applicant is requesting a disturbance of the steep slopes uh whereas the applicant proposes disturbance of slopes that exceed 20% now with respect to those both of those variances you heard Mr bachchi give very rational and reasonable explanations to why these variances are being requested before you this evening and Mr botch's placement of the site plan before you illustrates the good reasons why these variances are being requested I'm going to touch on the Steep soap variants first um as you heard Mr bachchi indicate there are no way to develop this site without disturbing the Sleep steep slopes uh so therefore this variance would be uh necessitated by the placement of the building anywhere on the site so when you look at that condition it certainly could be granted under the C1 criteria whereas it relates to the Topography of a specific piece of property and strict application of the township zoning ordinance would create an undue hardship upon the applicant before you this evening certainly the granting of that steep SL variance could be done without substantial impairment to the Zone plan zoning ordinance or or master plan uh relating to the front yard setback variance being requested uh Mr botchy indicated two main reasons why the setbacks being requested this evening the first being that it creates a sidewalk to the dwelling that does not necessitate railings and rails and keeps it at a percentage that helps people navigate the site who have Mobility needs secondly the placement of the house beyond the front yard setback also helps accommodate uh Vehicles into the site and also helps load and unload people with Mobility challenges out of the house into the car without having to do that from the street uh touch on that note there were comments related to parking there are six surface Park parking spots on this site in addition to a two-car garage there's certainly more than adequate parking needs to meet the needs of this residence so when it comes to the uh front yard setback variants that can certainly be granted under the C2 criteria whereas it advances purposes of zoning of the municipal land use law specifically purpose a uh to promote the public health safety morals and general welfare the use itself does that and the requesting of this variance does that by creating safe uh loading and load un loading and unloading in vehicles as well as safe uh pedestrian or wheelchair uh navigation through the site additionally it advances purpose G to provide sufficient space and appropriate location for a variety of residential uses to meet the needs of New Jersey citizens and as you heard in the applicants operator testimony at the last hearing there's certainly a need uh for this type of housing uh in the community uh lastly this proposal advances purpose I a desirable visual environment through creative development techniques and good Civic design and Arrangements uh you saw the architectural plans it's an impeccably designed house that is certainly befitting of the neighborhood Additionally the design of the driveway the design of the rear yard parking which eliminates the front yard parking so you have a nice lawn leading to the front facade of the dwelling as well as the accomodation of additional Landscaping C certainly helps provide the desirable visual environment um as with the C1 variants uh indicated for the slopes uh there's no substantial impairment to the Zone plan or zoning ordinance with the granting of that variance I would also like to touch on with respect to the steep slope variants uh section 170-20 6 as Mr bachchi indicated does allow uh for disturbance of the steep slope areas and circumstances where there's no feasible alternative this is certainly a case where there's no feasible alternative um it also allows it to prevent extraordinary hardship on the property owner there would certainly be an un du hardship on the property owner if that variance is is not granted um so uh in all uh the two variances requested tonight can be granted under both the C1 and C2 criteria thank you Mr grao thank you very much Mr gravan uh no questions at this time Mr Mr chairman thank you Mr H uh questions from the board questions from the public on white sweater good evening please recite your name and address please Regina crudup I also live in lont pleasure to meet you ma' uh same here okay why here why do you want to build here this is a permitted use in the zone that the applicant is before the board this evening requesting two relatively minor bulk variances did anybody consider the impact on a community other than I just want to build here there will be no impact on a community with this proposal as as indicated it's permitted by the municipal land use law of the state of New Jersey in this community did you consider other sites the application is for this site did you consider other sites yes or no I wasn't wasn't privy to the selection process but this is an appropriate site for the proposed use okay did anybody realize the impact on people who live nearby or right around was that considered at all or was just said I'm just going to build here because I like this area I do not agree that there will be impacts from this proposed home I beg to differ because you're not listening to if this water thing um you moving out to trees I own two properties questions ma'am question okay and I pulled up the bushes of one and I got a lot of water and where I kept the bushes on the other house I didn't get any water with these storms Sandy and Ida and so it does make a difference when you pull out trees people's basements are going to be flooded and it seems like you don't care and or the owner of this project doesn't care question please ma'am this this project has been designed by a licensed professional engineer in the state of newy Jersey it's been reviewed by a licensed professional engineer in the state of New Jersey so great care and detail has gone into designing the drainage system of the site by which the applicant's engineer has testified under oath that it was designed to work and the the second Safeguard is that it's reviewed by the by the Township's engineer as well okay um the engineer couldn't give us an answer about where the extra water going to go when this gets full the engineer testified that it was designed to all applicable standards okay all right I'm done okay thank you I'm trying to get the first ones and then we'll go I think we have are we all done with the first timers few second all right all right uh this is a we have another application that we have to do right Mr Hil yeah okay so let's see if we just wrap this up real quick with the second time around ma'am you want to come up again and I just put another it's 8:35 right now we have to 10 o'clock so I'm trying to move along hello um your name again I'm Linda rev and from 68 Earl Street so the other fell the engineer said that there's four parking spots spot and parking along the driveway but you're saying there's six parking spots and two car garage so which is it there are two spots within the stem of the driveway there are four spots in the rear part of the of the driveway as well as a two-car garage so so is that along the driveway or or are they I think I explained it pretty clearly there's two in the stem of the driveway you see them on the plan that's where that bump out is then in the rear can you show show me all right if you see um if you see in the rear part of the driveway there's four spaces that are along the grided area which is the underground drainage system you uh top of the page AG do you see the grids there are four spots here there are two spots here and then there's a two-car garage here okay so there's six spots in other words okay plus the two-car garage okay now you mentioned here that without great this sleep steep slope there would be no feasible alternative and you also mention that the home is befitting the neighborhood to go back to our previous comments the homes are, 1500 square fet this home is over 4600 ft and because you're going to make it this that big how is that befitting the neighborhood because none of our homes sit back more than I don't even think it's 10 feet from the street this is going to be sitting back I believe it's 100 feet so how is that befitting or fitting into our neighborhood well frankly I believe it creates a desirable visual environment by creating a 100 foot Green Lawn from the street to the house that's always a very aesthetically pleasing scenario additionally I'd like to note that this Zone allows a building coverage of 40% the applicant is only at 8.89% with the pro proposed dwelling before you this evening so this is by no means a an extremely large home this is a home designed in a way to meet the needs of the residents that will live there when there are people in a home uh with Mobility challenges you need bigger space you need space for people to get around uh so I certainly do not feel that this house is out of character for the neighborhood okay well you maybe you don't live there but the other homes that Community Access has built are not this size home and yet they are able to handle the needs of developmentally disabled individuals so why on this particular site is it a necessity to make them this large that doesn't give the appearance of being in our community um as I said this is not in my opinion an exceptionally large house for the community the applicant is far below the permitted building coverage the applicant is far below the permitted impervious coverage 60% impervious coverage is permitted the applicant's only at 28.8% can you explain that to me I don't understand that so the applicant would be allowed to either put buildings or structures or parking areas on a lot at 60% the applicant's only at 28.8% so all of the so from my understanding the drainage area the parking lot the building the driveway the sidewalks that's only 20% of the 28.8 the drainage Bas is underground it does not count as impervious coverage there's there's soil and grass above that and the fenced area that's beyond in the back does that count since it's fenced off that's all undeveloped land that goes into the non- impervious coverage calculation okay well all I know is the look of our community and the fact that our homes Sit Close to the to the um to the street and they are much smaller so although in your opinion it befits the neighborhood I believe in the rest of our opinions it does not beit the neighborhood but thank you for your information thank you uh sir you in the green shirt sir want to come back up hello again sir would you please recite your name and address hello I'm Richard Bowman I reside at 1219 Schmidt Avenue uh okay I guess the first question is the setback you're asking it because it would make the uh the the facility would be unviable without the setback as the way it's been described no that that was not described that way oh okay uh uh okay that's uh when we hear uh that the um both the previous testimony and yours you're saying without uh while you can uh the grounds for the setback is hardship on the developer but uh the community sees no that's that's not my testimony either O Okay uh that's how it comes across um the question we have is is uh What uh I you mentioned that you did not uh were not there for the selection uh of the site but looking at this it it looks like it's a poor site for this development and the community considered the reason this uh this area was not developed for 70 plus odd years is as we see it it wasn't fit to be developed and yes there are current rules probably different from when 1954 1934 when the most of the houses came down but uh people felt that that uh this fac this area was not going to be developed and we're surprised to find out that there had even been a sale and only learned of that now uh the question is with what how do I phrase this none of us can seem to picture how this will work with the existing slope of the you you're not redesigning the Earl Street it's not going to be ripped up and repaved and redone you're just building on the facility none of us see how any of the these projects make sense in the term of that question oh okay uh well I wanted see I seem to be confused about what you're saying about the setback uh as I was hearing without the setback this project wouldn't be viable you're just saying that's not your testimony sir You' heard by two professionals yeah that without the disturbance of the steep slope relief over 20% this project wouldn't be feasible what I testified to is that there is a rationale for the setback variance request in that it provides a sidewalk at a slope with PE that people with Mobility challenges can navigate that's the first one okay secondly it provides space to load and unload in the driveway without burdening the street which is the big concern of everybody in this building well their concern is also as you've described it there's plan uh there are two things then that come from that one is there's transer eight cars to be here at the same time on a very narrow and very already busy and basically congested and dangerous road no there is space at the there is space at the residence for eight cars no one ever testified that there will be eight cars there at one time well we we all see nobody ever plans for situations like that but that is something that can happen and second the applicant has gone above and beyond to provide off street parking to eliminate any park concerns of the board and the community okay the other part you brought up is is there the possibility then a future expansion of this of this facility you described that the by uh by the rules this is only 20% and they're allowed up to 60% uh can this community expect at some point you to come back and say well we're adding further facilities here we're adding an addition and a uh an expansion to this building and adding more people and more further parking you heard the you heard the oper testimony regarding plans for the building and the site at the last hearing okay okay uh now uh I'd like a theoretical then let us pretend that the committee made a decision and said no to the setback what happens in that scenario when you go on to continue the project please describe that to us in the community I'm not going to get into that I provided the planning justifications the positive and negative criteria for the application that's before the board this evening I'm not going to get into that hypothetical you don't have a plan without offense the reason people some people in the community say oh this is a formality is that attitude the board has the ability to say no to this setback yes but I'm not going to taint the reord with a hypothetical that could damage the case of my client so I'm not going to do that oh okay you're just refusing to answer the question thank you all right then all right any other uh questions from the public yes ma'am good evening how are you good evening man please recite your name and your address please my name is Lauren o good and um I'm actually here and I don't know if I'll be able to do it repres sir you'll have time to do after after we adjourn okay I'm sorry mad I'm here representing someone who is out of town who lives at 1666 Earl Street okay so I basically um I don't want to open up cam of worms but um something that maybe the community have not considered is the fact that I know you're saying eight parking spaces but some of these people who are disabled may possibly have family members who come to visit yes yes that was that was provided an operator testimony yes and parking will be provided also for those family members that come to visit the parking on the on the home is is for all um employees or visitors to the site thank you thank you man' any other questions from the public sir in the green shirt and it's I just acknowledge it's 8:45 we're getting a little late we can wrap up then we have another application we got to go through no problem Scott Watson 1641 Earl Street pleas to meet you pleasure sir you testified that this house is befitting the neighborhood uh multiple times the house size is 4600 square fet at what point what size house would it stop be befitting the neighborhood in your expert opinion uh when the applicant's requesting for a building coverage variance what size house would not be befitting the neighborhood in your expert opinion I just gave you the answer the township of Union has no F requirement the township of Union has no maximum square footage requirement uh you have an applicant before you that this evening with a site that's 35,40 square feet whereas 5,000 square fet uh is required in the zone so you have a lot that's seven times the required size of the district um you know this is this is an area where if you combine these two sites you could feasibly have a residential subdivision with a culdesac I think the community is actually fortunate to have two single family dwellings on on on these site sir sir sorry question did you just say that we should be fortunate sir I think there are alter development scenarios that could get more than two single family dwellings on these Parcels yes I'll take that as a yes thank you thank you all right I'm going to cut off the question now for this application only because it's getting late and I don't want to keep everybody unless we have to um do you have any other questions from your no no we have no further Witnesses at this time okay and for application 2024 to03 yeah well we would start that one yeah no yeah yeah um all right so my thought is because it's essentially the same property to just do all in one because like I said it's getting sure is that is that yeah I mean it's uh that was going to be with the with the second one um say basically the same it's basically same operational same house except for some Aesthetics so what I was going to do is maybe call Mr Bachi to explain the layout the the uh site plan on the on the second house okay how long will the presentation take should be quick because it's essentially the same so okay all right so so now we' moved on to 20 okay we're going to review application 20243 hello again Mr B hello sir good to go yeah and again uh Mr chairman Bor in public yeah this is now the 1760 Earl Street the adjacent property again Community Access unlimited uh Community residence again permitted in by Statute and under our ordinances uh and very similar design of the home same type of operational testimony but there's slightly difference now in the in the site plan and by the way on this lot also uh from the previous application we withdrew the request for the front yard fence and the only relief again that we're seeking is the Steep slow and the setback so Mr Boi just for the record you are still under Ro understood um so as Mr Hill said this is uh the lot adjacent to the previous application we discussed this is block 1804 lot 13 um I'll try to be brief uh for time sake um like the other lot boun the north by Earl Street uh to the east and west by Residential Properties on either side and to the South by uh Garden State Parkway property uh and a residential unit there I'm going to jump down to the survey I'll briefly discuss the existing conditions um again we have steep slopes on this site it's currently vacant um trees uh vacant with the exception of a small concrete sidewalk remnants of uh some previous Construction um again we have steep slopes Crossing through the site uh if you kind of follow my cursor that's essentially where the steep slopes are located um again it would be impossible to develop anything here without disturbing them as they as they come across uh the site and and are located towards the front you know to get access or anything in there um again like the other site we mentioned it does slop down from Earl Street down uh to this corner of the site uh here here that's the southern Corner um so not not much to say on existing conditions sloped treed vacant uh I'll go to our sheet two the site plan you'll notice it looks very similar to lot one uh again these are revised July 12 2024 um so we are the project consists of kind of re regrading much of the site um we have a proposed dwelling kind of little cockeyed uh on the site to kind of work with the existing slopes that are there uh we are requesting a 100 foot uh front yard setback here um make sure I'm hitting everything uh we do have Ada access provided from both the proposed driveway uh here on the um Eastern side uh again a bump out for unloading uh and loading and parking uh access from Earl with a a nice um 5% maximum sidewalk so again we don't need railings and and that and kind of have have an ey sore out there um no Fen is proposed in the front yard as our previous plans uh were submitted with a fence in the front um again we have a a relatively large detention Basin that will collect a majority of the stormw on site and ensure that Peak runoff rates do not exceed existing conditions um four parking spaces in the rear two-car garage uh is proposed uh very similar to lot one um and I think that really covers it's very similar to to the previous application just touching on assum as you testified last time the the setback helps again people with disabilities and providing the parking and removing that parking back and pushing it back from from the front you know at the front y parking and uh that that's correct yeah and as Mr gravano and you testified that in fact I just under the under the ordinance it says that U um the the uh with respect to the Steep flope it's not really a Prohibition it's a Prohibition unless yes unless you have a unless it's you know necessary as there's no feasible alternative so and there is no feasible alternative in this case that's correct again steep slopes are kind of coming all across the site so you wouldn't be able to build you know even if you you have to get into the site so with them coming across the site you know from top to bottom you you're going to have to cross them okay and with respect to I know just like with the previous lot this one also you added additional Landscaping as a result of our uh last appearance yes so let me focus on on that for a minute we have um a bit more of a buffer on this one uh considering that uh this one backs up to the backyard of a number of neighboring properties so let me just zoom in you can see a number of uh sorry this touch screen's not great but we have a very well defined I hope that's clear to everyone all these dark uh you know various shapes in here uh these are all various plantings we have uh trees shrubs um you know a nice variety here some Evergreens it'll it'll maintain that buffer in the winter um and some nice looking perennials that that'll provide a nice aesthetically pleasing buffer to the neighbors uh to the West great uh no further questions Mr Bachi again you touched on a lot of that in the last uh presentation questions from the board and uh I want to jump ahead to as uh what Mr Goan indicated no objection to working with the engineering department to provide additional Landscaping to the rear of the property to help uh sound mitigation we can work with Mr Hatter and cers on that and and fire department and fire department also question for the board uh Mr Bachi how far would these homes be apart um if they were approved let me get that for you so we have a sidey yard the two homes that we were proposing um so you got a 24 and change foot side uh side yard there and let me just look at this one about 13 um so you have 13 on one side 25 on the other all right and just so I understand 43 the size of these homes are part of the reason so they are ADA Compliant because you're going to have the clients would possibly be in wheelchairs is that uh that's my understanding but the inside of the home isn't really my expertise I would okay but I mean that's possibly one of the reasons yes we no I won't understand that thank you any other questions questions from the public hello sir back up I hope Richard bman oh uh 1219 Schmidt Avenue uh I hope these questions are for you uh first for my personal concern I reside and I guess this is on behalf of all of Schmidt Avenue residents I'm 1219 where would that be on this uh illustration uh where your house would be yeah 1219 I Hon so I can have a proper visual ization I don't know all the I understand take take your time I mean if you know what I could give you a you know what Lot number you are oh um let me look I should be uh yes so excuse me I should be lot eight lot eight so you're towards the rear of yes our property so on that map where does lot eight show apologize I'm going to be a little greedy on that one I believe that would be uh back in this area okay let me zoom out again take your time I'm not not great with the touch screen said 1219 yeah 1219 should be the third house of uh that's why I believe it's number eight third from the parkway side yeah uh yes so I think you'd be you'd be right in this area Okay uh that brings me to the three questions I have the first is on this one I don't see that um fence for the animals that was spoken of that does show up on the other one or is we have fencing here see the darker line with the X's the thick black line yeah sorry I didn't mention that in my testimony thanks for pointing that out so yeah this line I'm I'll just go over with my cursor okay okay thank you um in the resloping regrading that's going to go on there what kind of drop off would the all the residents on Schmid Avenue see from that is there going to be like you know a significant gap between the redone re uh reconstructed area and you know their whether it be a dangerous drop off or is that is that going to be a smooth slope that's going to be uh constructed well if you look at you see the gray out area here so that represents you know the closer The Contours are together that represents the smaller very steep so we're we're softening it I mean we're keeping it here immediately adjacent to you softening it slightly um over here I would say if you're talking immediately behind your property yeah well and also since for all of Schmid Avenue what they expect yeah what would yeah what would the residents expect as they go along that I guess I get the least yay I'm I'm a winner but uh yeah I would say minimal changes um there like nothing that nothing unsafe okay you know people have children I'm I used to play all throughout all their throughout my childhood so it's the kind of thing where you know you just go down the hill and that's normal but if there's significant reconstruction you know we have to ask about that uh can I follow up on that so again if you see where the fence is the fence happens to uh kind of protect this steeper area I wouldn't say it's a dangerous area by any means it's going to be same as existing for the most part immediately adjacent to your properties uh then when the fence ends it's much uh much more shallow slope here after the fence is no longer there I'm trying to phrase out the second uh the the other parts of the question thank you for the clarification on the fence the third one um see and again um while your uh colleague uh wasn't interested in saying anything that would in his opinion hurt his client in your opinion um a house that's three times larger than anything in the surrounding Community you feel that fits in or is that outside your uh that's outside my field that was number three thank you question from the public hi come on up again thank you Linda R your name Linda rck 68y old so I know one one of you fellas asked about whether or not the size of the home is that large because of the handicapped individuals well I do know that Community Access has other homes that are handicapp accessible and they are not this size so is that an accurate statement that you're making or is that just a guess so I don't design the home itself my focus is on basically mostly on what's going around the home the site itself the grading Etc so I didn't pick the size of the house by any means I understand so they could be other uh smaller a smaller home put into that area that could be just as handicap accessible as this one is that correct that's outside of my interior ada8 compliance is outside of my expertise okay so then perhaps you didn't answer that question correctly okay the other thing um is the property on Schmid those properties some of it is pretty steep in the back is there any thought of a need for a retaining wall behind those properties so that their um backyards don't fall down into the grading than now so we're I mean we're not touching the grading back here you can see the darker lines is what is proposed right that's kind of where Ed's area would be yeah I mean it's very it's pretty minor changes uh and I think I testified on the last application what what's typically considered acceptable and safe is a is a three to1 slope and we do not exceed uh that steepness okay is there a reason why the properties are not parallel to Earl in that they're put on such an angle so for example the some of the like the the the way the angle is the people that are living on Schmid where that top is the the point of the house they're going to be like looking right into their backyard so why is it on a all of the homes are parallel to Earl why are these on such an angle it's inconsistent with the neighborhood yeah it goes back to having the steep slopes on site it it works a little better uh for us on on regrading and making all the grades work if you tilt it and kind of have it if you see this existing um again these kind of halone lines here try to kind of put it in line with those uh makes it fit the property the existing condition of the property a little better so you don't have to do as much improvement and regrading and and steep slope uh disturbance so you're more concerned about the property instead of the neighborhood in the way the neighborhood is set up with the houses parallel to the to Earl Street yeah as an engineer uh I'm really focused on again making sure it's it's safe from an engineering standpoint not Aesthetics aren't quite my uh perview okay so so there's no concern about the way they look in the neighborhood it's just concerned about that property so how far is the the point at the top how far is that to the um property line uh 12.78 ft which complies with local ordinances that's pretty close because their backyards are very small so that's going to be a very short distance um okay well most of my questions are were answered one thing you did mention again you mentioned that there's four parking spots the other fell said six yeah so I if I misspoke I apologize there's four strip parking spaces in the rear you have room for two vehicles in this bump out here and there's a two-car garage if you so this is curbing just to make it clear this is a curb so you would come in and you have a garage door there and the other fella said in the other property there's six parking spots and two car garage why is there a difference between the two now let me explain once more you have four striped parking spaces in the rear you have room for two vehicles here so that's four plus two six and then twocc car garage they're both the same I might have I when on the last application I mentioned there was four spaces in the rear these four striped ones here and then room for two cars here and a two-car garage and where is the driveway on this property it's on the uh downhill side as well so it's on the crest of the Hill it's towards the bottom so that's the crest of the Hill okay take my word for it's at the crest of the Hill which again from the cars coming up and down could be an issue okay that's my questions thank you thank you very much any other questions from the public right Mr Hill your next witness I'm sorry oh hello G sir come on back up again and it's 90 I'm just acknowledging it's 907 so we really have to I'll make qu I apologize for not getting it through the first time um this may not be for you or uh as you can see with Earl uh with most of the residences on Earl and on Schmidt they're much smaller Lots I understand this was purchased as two large Lots uh why was they uh even though the purchases of the single large lot uh presumably they were left intact that way because they were seen as undevelopable at the time why have they been allowed to stay one large lot to allow a large building like this as opposed to being now that it's being developed chopped up into smaller single more normal house uh you know uh compatible to single development uh things you know you put seven houses along the same distance on Schmidt you could put seven houses here I know that's not your plan but if you divided this up the same way that uh Schmidt has divided how how large of a building would you be allowed to put on that kind of development if you had you know the same amount of space as the people say on Schmidt if this was divided up I'm not sure if I quite you're talking about a potential Sub sub combining them and subdividing into small Lots yeah once the uh the single housing lots of Earl and Schmidt were put into small Lots this was left a large lot because presumably at the time development was seen as financially unviable you've purchased the the facility as a lot I guess the question is if this was divided up the same way Earl and Schmidt are which are a series of small Lots what would be the allowable size of a building on that because it wouldn't be this large item add yeah I'm honestly not sure off the top of my head it would probably be similar to the size of the houses on a Schmidt Street okay uh sorry about that is that more like a board question why it's allowed to is that more of a board question why it's allowed to stay a single lot as opposed to being chopped up that doesn't S okay sorry right um any other question from the public all right your next witness Mr yes I'd like to again recall Mr Nicholas graviano thanks Mr B did just for this application again provide the planning justification this is for 20 2024 03 right talking about yes oh the applic I was looking at lot in Block just for the record sir you're still you're still noted thank you and you're still qualified from a couple couple of minutes ago thank you so Mr gravano again uh with respect to this property very similar relief provide again the planning justification uh yes uh in context of this property it's the exact same relief that was requested with the last application uh the applicant is requesting the 100 foot uh front yard setback whereas 35 ft is required uh the applicant uh is also requesting the uh sleep steep slope disturbance in excess of 20% uh as similar to the other application there is no way to avoid the Ste steep slope disturbance on this property um as well with the uh condition of the other property uh the applicants plan here allows for the uh loading and unloading of people with uh Mobility challenges um in the driveway as well as a uh safe path of uh sidewalk uh to the dwelling uh similar to the other application with respect to the Ste steep slope uh request it certainly could be granted under the C1 criteria however um you know chapter 170 that d2106 does allow um for those disturbances so the actual necessity for that variance could be debated but we've put on the proofs anyway um with respect to the front yard setback that could be granted under the C2 criteria uh furthering purposes a g and I similar to the previous application with no substantial impairment to the Zone plan or zoning ordinance thank you uh no further questions of Mr graan thank you Mr Hill question from the board question from the public okay thank you thank you any other witness Mr Hill no we have no further Witnesses at this time and you'd like to sum up well I don't know if do you want to have the public first or whatever I was going to have you that's fine again thank you again and we appreciate the board we appreciate the public being here uh again this is an application for uh a community residents uh and I heard me say it several times they're permitted in all residential zones and dictated by single family residential standards uh it's very very large lots and again uh we're seeking relief from two uh sections of of the Ordinance one is the front yard setback and again we feel that uh the benefits of granting the front yard setback certainly outweigh any detriment provides people again these are people with developmental disabilities provid safe grade and the like and it also pushes it back that you know there was concern with Earl well now you know there's a longer driveway better better area of Ingress egress provides the additional parking the parking uh in the front in a nice green space in front of the home so I think certainly the justification as Mr graviano said under the C2 criteria for uh relief on both of these application for front yard setback and again with respect to steep slope uh as Mr graviano noted technically we may not even I don't even think we need that relief because the ordinance reads it's prohibited it said unless new disturbance is necessary because there's no feasible alternative or creates a hardship so the ordinance allows it doesn't say you can't do it there there has to be justification ation for that that being no feasible alternative and Mr bachchi indicated that there is no feasible alternative and it's designed uh in that way so I think uh the fact that we're supporting people with developmental disabilities with a 501c3 uh Community Access unlimited that has a great footprint in Union County providing uh housing for again adults with developmental disabilities uh is a certainly something that's uh warranted here and we appreciate the board's time and consideration of board professionals and the input from the public and look forward to the board granting this application if I can ask you a question Mr Hill uh we as you know the planning board is obligated to do a balancing test and try we try to be fair to both the public and the applicant if we were to approve your both of your applications um would you consent to the board revisiting it if we get complaints from the public sure that's that's certainly that and I think there was a question by somebody well suppose they want to add on or things like that uh we've come to the board we're seeking relief I mean uh if we were seeking to change put an addition on or change uh we'd stipulate that we would need to come back to the board if any of these individuals come back with complaints we're going to ask client to come back you understand that's no issue and we also again have no problem in providing working with the fire department as indicated and also uh providing additional Landscaping working with the township engineering department to provide that for additional buffer thank you Mr Hill no thank you all right public commentary no public commentary come on up and just again just to revisit the form of Bo this is where you get to make your own summations uh there's no Q&A since it's 9:15 I'll ask you to short and sweet if you could that would be great it's it's unfortunate that that um many of our neighbors are away they're on vacation some are traveling um so others would have been here if it was a different day so you need a drink of water man ma'am are you okay no no it doesn't sound it you why don't you take a break we'll have somebody else come up first well let me just go so obviously this is very stressful right um I've been living there since I was a little girl and we played in we played in these woods and if it wasn't fit for building then why would it be fit to build it now it's kind of like shame on the town for putting all of the stress on our community for the sake of eight individuals that could be how some somewhere else you're you're not only affecting the environment the deer the fox the owls the other birds that are there but you're affecting all here who also have disabled individuals in their homes the the sound level is going to increase because all those trees are going to come down and although there's all these professional that say there's not going to be flooding logically if you remove I wouldn't say that there's 30 trees there there's got to be 50 trees in there if you remove 50 trees and you reslope that there's going to be runoff and it's going to come down the other thing is it the executive director said that they're trying to fit into the neighborhood there is no way that 4600 Square fet homes fit into a neighborhood with, 1500 square feet homes so I don't I don't quite understand that concept there's also safety issues as far as the the way the driveways are set up we live there so we know what goes up and down there's parking parking is horrendous it's to the point where people are now parking in front of their driveways because there's no place to park we mentioned this at the last um time we met pulling out of Earl Street onto Oakland Avenue is a living nightmare we've asked for the sign to be put back a few feet so that people on Oakland Avenue can see us come out no one's helped us with that this so you're saying that there's eight parking spots on each property they might not always be used at the same time but there's going to be Vans and buses and whatever Transportation needs to be made as well as visitors that's going to increase the level of traffic and the the the amount of cars going up and down the street and it's already over the top all of the trees have been ripped out of Earl Street in Oakland Avenue that's increased the sound the noise and the traffic is so much much it's it's terrible and then the effect that it's going to have on the people on Schmidt that's not me but it's going to definitely infect affect their backyards and it's going to affect us on Earl Street I'm at the top of Earl Street by the stop sign and that's going to be more um that's going to be more traffic so it's you're negatively impacting our community and every other place that I've seen Community Act access put up homes it's only been one home this is two homes and that's giving an undue burden to our little community and the size of the home so they say that the application say up to 10 in each home the executive director last time said it's going to be four in each home none of us here have the confidence that it's going to remain four in each home and there is is safety issues there are many stories and and I don't want to sound mean but there are stories of developmentally disabled individuals who have caused uh problems within neighborhoods but I know we can't say that but can't consider it I'm I'm just letting you know we just can't consider it yeah I'm I'm just letting you know how we feel so that's an that's definitely an issue too um it's going to change the whole concept of the neighborhood and the fact that the the homes aren't even with the properties the way the rest of us are it to to us it doesn't make sense and it's kind of like shame on the town for selling these properties without notifying any of us if you were going to sell it for $25,000 there's enough people in here that would have bought the property and kept it just a green space because Green Space helps people's minds and just to see the animals there's no way that deer are going to jump over those fences and be safe they're not and the runoff into the the wetlands that's down there that should be protected even if it is small it's unfair to to the the community it's un unfair to the environment and honestly for the sake of eight individuals this is going to cost 2.4 million dollar to put this up and there's other properties I have friends on the other side of Union that they had some green area instead the town is asking to put a little Park in there why put a park there that's flat that could have been used for this without all of this additional grading and removal of dirt and removal of trees why this property it doesn't make any sense to us and if wasn't feasible for the last 100 years why is it feasible now and in the long run it's going to caused a a problem on Earl Street with the traffic with those driveways and and it's going to cause problems for us we appreciate the fact that Community Access is a great organization and what they do but this isn't affecting us so why do all of this for the benefit of Aid when you're negatively impacting hundreds of people who live there so that's all I have to say thank you very much [Applause] ma'am any other comments from the public yes sir and the green oh okay hello again name it name res again pleas yes um Vita Bowman 1652 Earl like I said earlier I wasn't sure how the process goes but I didn't find out about this until May so I feel like I'm a little behind but still my concerns are still valid um my I have children in the area so the the construction at the top of the street there's a um a bus stop right there so I you have to think about how that's going to affect you know the kids and the bus stop it's already when it's when school is in session it's a lot of congestion right there so um I'm thinking maybe you should really consider a traffic study if if you're going to move forward with this um and I'm really just thinking about my quality of life that's why I come out and I'm listening and I'm showing my concern to all of you I'm um I'm hearing for the first time from Community ACC as I didn't know was two buildings but now I know um so I just want to make it known that there are a lot of other people that could not make it tonight but the meetings kept getting pushed back push back change Chang of dates so that's really a a lot of uh the citizens concern is the quality of life that is going to be um for those who live in the area and my concern is safety as well because I'm not I'm not um aware of the type of if it's just people in um wheelchairs or other disabilities or what type of disability is it I need more information I was told it was a community um meeting I didn't know anything about it I wasn't um reached out to I wasn't um contacted and I live right on the street okay so I just want to make that known thank you for your attention and have a nice evening yes sir come on up again hello I'll make it quick Richard Bowman 129 Schmid um what we have is a very laudable goal in the wrong location I believe we're here because in 2019 somebody came across looking through for available space they saw two large lots that were not in use and were able to get it at a very cheap bargain price and they said this is where we're going to put our plan which will help people and it's a good plan but it's in the wrong location both for the traffic purposes for the fundamental of just the physical location for the environmental conditions the fact that we have to go through these kind of Hoops the building cannot even in the most basic sense face the road it must be at a tilt to conform with the land the potential for already choking traffic on Earl I live there all my life I avoid Earl simply because you're at that top of the hill you don't know what's coming up at you and if there are people parked on the street you just it's it's not worth it it's easier to go around or go through another exit because it's a blind down and boom uh I've avoided did that from a good chunk of my life even when when when there's basic construction and I have to come up through Earl going up that hill you have no idea what's going to come at you and you're looking at the sides hoping there's hey if somebody shows up I need to be able to move out of the way this is a very Noble goal just in the wrong location because somewhere along the line somebody was looking at there's a large lot that hasn't been used and we got it Dirt Cheap I wish them well with their goals but they're in the wrong place place and as I said the facilities here are three times the size of any house in the community they don't match uh they change the nature of the community they kind of kill the Privacy that we're all everyone on both sides are used to by having those woods the environmental concerns for example when this literally just came to me just now we're talking about the catch bations and the runoff well you've got one catch bent on top of another so when there's a problem one's already overfolded into one that's full and then you got a real pig problem so is the kind of thing where it just feels that this is a very Noble and laudable goal just placed in the wrong place because of the chance of a cheap availability I thank the uh thank you for your time welcome sir any public input from the from the public uh again it's 9 we're almost it's almost 9:30 so I apologize Scott Watson 1641 Earl Street fortunate resident earlier we heard testimony that the two facilities are befitting to the neighborhood I'm assuming that we're all constituents of this Val Town prop volunteers here excuse me we're volunteers and we live in Union right so we all live within Union as we go home this evening I want us all to consider we pull into our driveways looking across the street and Imagining the house across from your home being three times the size of yours be fitting to the neighborhood growing up on Earl Street the hill that has been spoken about was nicknamed Suicide Hill because when you're coming down on your bike you couldn't see the bottom of the hill conversely the car coming up couldn't see you it was a cute nickname but it was somewh accurate I ask as a constituent of the township of Union for 54 years that you decline the two variances I ask that in lie of declining of variances you at least do a traffic study to determine the feasibility of those two driveways and that location thank you thank you anyone else oh you sir wanted to make a you're you're good okay thank you sir all right uh any commentary from the board okay Mr chairman um I recognize that our purview relative to responding to these applicants are specifically related to the Varian is being uh requested but I'm given Pause by some of the testimony that we've heard from the from the residents in the neighborhood and I personally would feel better if we did get commentary from our Township engineer relative to whatever impact the additional vehicles for these two properties might be relative to traffic and as I mentioned earlier through my questioning I want to see a condition on the approval that requires there be as many additional trees planted at the back of the properties as possible to provide sound buffer I also question relative to the concerns regarding um environmental impact despite the fact that it's not part of the application whether or not there might be openings in the fences that would allow U access egress through the fence for any uh transient Wildlife that may be living or moving through the area thank you any other uh Mr colem U if I might respond to your question uh I can tell you that uh uh under any circumstance we would not require a traffic study for two group homes next to each other on Earl Street we would not require that that is not the appropriate use of resource uh thank you any other commentary from the board okay be that as it may uh I would like to address before I make a motion I asked for a motion on whether or not to approve this I want to make it very clear to everyone here that we appreciate the uh position of the citizens who came to testify and ALS or to make their presentation also to ask questions I also appreciate the applicant and the lawyer uh Mr hail uh I thought that the uh the witnesses who came and asked or were asked very difficult questions and I thought they responded as well as they possibly could here's the problem that we have as as as a planning board our job is to give both the public and the applicant a fair shake and I will tell you haven't spent seven years out the planning board uh most applicants are pretty applications are pretty simple either it's yay or nay this isn't one of them uh it is complicated and I don't doubt whatsoever the concerns of the uh public concerning if I may um negatively impacting the community I I'm not doubting that whatsoever but that doesn't end the analysis we still have to be fair to the applicant and especially when the applicant is an applicant that's going to house the disabled we are bound by law both federal and state to provide our own housing for the disabled uh the name of the law or the name of the case is Mount Laurel and we're Bound by whether we like it or not we're Bound by it and we cannot give the Optics that we are doing anything to adopt a not in my backyard approach to housing we just there's laws against that with that said however um I have to say that everything that we've asked of the applicant we even having the community outreach and I know that we have testimony here that the uh one person didn't hear of the Outreach and that's obviously quite unfortunate that doesn't take away from the fact that we have a balancing test to do and we have to be fair to both now I have asked Mr Al if in exchange for approval of the if he would agree to as a condition to come back to return to the board if we get a single complaint from any of you here he said that would be no problem so I don't think that that approval or disapproval today is the beginning and ending of this project it's just the beginning um and I want to make that very clear um I think that sometimes as a board we have to take a leap of faith and it's not easy and I do think too if this was any if this was not a ation for housing disabled I think that um we would obviously look at it differently but the fact of the matter is it is housing for the disabled and we do have an obligation to house the disabled and that's just the way it is also having Mo both myself and members of the board have reviewed the transcripts now thankfully tonight the've overwhelming majority of the questions and testimony were very very productive I thought um the last meeting we had wasn't so much and one of the things we have to be careful about optically is being accused of doing something that violates the Fair Housing Act and the laws against discrimination we have to be very careful about that because we're not allowed to do either one of them so what I'm going to do is this I am going to uh ask for a motion to approve the application both applications one at a time under the condition that if we receive a single complaint from any of the public on on this project we will be revisiting we will be coming back and we will be addressing the issue so Mr chairman can I ask a question when you say that a single complaint what what would be the nature of a complaint the constru complaint any any parts of the application um Mr L has agreed as a condition of approval that they will come back yeah meaning it's uh if it if there's issues with respect to violation of any of the terms and conditions of this approval it wouldn't mean it it's a construction noise or something like that we're talking we're talking the terms of the application and again this is just leap of faith and I understand that I don't disagree at all with the argument that there's a CH it could potentially change the neighborhood but we have to be fair to both parties yeah and frankly you you're you're you're your your client has been above and beyond the Call of Duty for giving us everything that we asked for so uh but but alternatively I am very con I convinced personally that the individuals here have a point but we also have to be fair to both parties don't we so U my my view is normally when we ask for approval it's a straight out approval here's a little different what I'm going to ask for approval with the condition that if we receive any complaints regarding the application moving forward that we will revisit the issue and we will be bringing your client back and we will be addressing the issue again and again related to the actual application again not construction or things like that yes ma'am pretty much the same thing that you've done here would you call up the engineering department and you make a complaint about whatever's going on over there make regarding the application it wouldn't it's it's a it's a phone call it's an email whatever it is I would recommend it be in writing because that because like I said uh the they have agreed as a condition of approval to revisit this issue if there's any problems down the road and that I normally don't go out of my way to do that normally it's either a y or an A but I think that's the fairest thing to do for both parties you would you come up here ma'am please you have to get it because this doesn't get you all the way over there Mr chairman while we're waiting for that for clarity so as a result of the vote of approval tonight there will be a resolution memorializing the agreement right it would be a complaint relative to non-compliance with the resolution is that correct cor thank you so so what does that mean so that it means if you call our engineering department and you say those folks over at the um at the um at the home are not abiding by the then we will bring them back or when we're doing it there we didn't put all the trees under the plan that we were supposed to put we destroyed trees we said we weren't going to we didn't put the fence in we put a front yard fence in when we said we weren't going to do it if we don't comply with the terms and conditions of the resolution we have to come back but then that's going to be too late because they're already going to have ripped out the trees well we I guess that's a it's a what we're doing what I'm suggesting is we take a just take a leap of faith um and I understand it's not perfect and I I I get it but that's our job on the planning board to think of resolutions where we do do what we think is best and best and fair and uh I think in my own view that's is the fairest thing to do I mean they we they have already offered to uh come back if there's any problems down the road and you know I I just don't know if a more fair way to do it to tell you the truth and the time timing of this like when is this going to all happen is there a way that they will not start to rip out the trees when the animal that was during the hearing Mr hail I'm sure that you'll you'll continue your community outreach yeah I mean if there's issues cu the Animals still have babies down there yeah we we we'll we'll address that we we will address that all right any other question anything else all right all right I'll like take a motion that under the conditions we're it's getting late sir you want to come up go ahead just want I just do want to say um and because this is part of the problem we would be objecting to any development that's happening on this location we understand the sensitive nature legally for the board because this is a home for the uh mentally or physically disabled and all that but any development that be happening at this locations we'd be objecting to on pretty much on these same grounds that on the record we're we're Bound by uh state and federal law in that regard sir all right I'd like to ask for a motion to approve application 2024 -02 creative Property Management B1 180301 under the condition that should we receive any complains from the public regarding the application or any violation thereof that the that the could we just take a two I I've got my client calling me and I have to talk to for second okay five minutes yeah all right let's I'll withdraw the motion for now and we'll Circle back in five minutes thank you e e e whenever you're ready you e e yes they not all this yes thank you Mr chairman yeah all right thank you very much yeah actually my client who's quite ill uh was watching and was concerned concerned about uh the condition I clarified that it's a violation of the terms and conditions of the approval meaning the the site plan we don't comply with the site plan we don't comply with terms and conditions that were articulated here as opposed again someone says there's a noise violation there's there's that there's garbage and those are all code enforcement issues it's and frankly I think even without that condition if someone embarks upon a project and does to comply all you have to do is ask Mr manguso how many times people have gotten approvals for projects and then and then they don't comply so I I I hope you Cent we we have been fair to everybody oh yes everybody has been given every Fair opportunity to address the board it's it's a very difficult task to decide trying to be as Equitable as we can we have we're trying to stay within the law as you know the F FHA is a very unforgiving housing statute cannot uh treat the disabled and worse than anybody else so yeah and Council and I will work out the terms conditions that in the resolution so thank you again all right all right so um I'd like to have a motion under the condition that if the board or the engineering department receives any complaints uh as to any potential inconsistencies with the application um that the uh board will approve the application 24-02 creative Property Management B is and Bravo 1803 L1 have a motion please second second roll call James Johnson yes Michael Cohen Michael Cohen no Jeffree East yes Alfred Piller yes Patty Frasier abstain I was not pres for presentation James Bower yes Joseph FR yesma no anybody else you didn't call my name sorry Sten yes sorry okay and for the record you please put the the uh the vote on the record please the vote for yay and ver yes how many I have two names okay all right Mr held under the under those conditions that we talked about and I want to emphasize to your client we'll be we will'll be holding your client to task if we've receive any type of uh complaints about that okay so that's been approved for now all right thank you very much you're welcome sir with the same conditions uh that we did with application 202 4-02 I also ask for motion to move application 202 24-3 creative Property Management b184 913 be approved with the conditions as set forth in the PRI previous uh motion so moved second second roll call James Johnson yes Michael Cohen no Jeffrey East yes Steven Lee Yes Alfred Miller yes Patty Frasier same James Bower yes Joseph FR yes Al no okay all right would you please put the uh tally the on the record please uh six yes two n okay thank you all right um they're approved and like I said I hope we don't have to come back on here but if they if anyone makes any complaints Mr Hill we we'll be back right thank you very much and appreciate your time and have a great night Mr chairman just uh just a brief remark on Indulgence um the community outreach does not cease at this point um considering that there was a lot of Fe back a lot of concerns I think what is immensely important what is immensely important is to maintain that communication maintain that transparency there's obviously a lot of questions and concerns with regards to the timing of the construction um how long this project will take things of that nature and so I I I think the onus is is definitely on the applicant to ensure that there is proper transparency and communication to the community and that continues throughout the entire project uh and it didn't it didn't stop after tonight that's not Community Access has always had that in their mind okay thank you than I joined Mr Lee's remarks thank you again okay move to adjourn y uh second second all in favor I I got