##VIDEO ID:3SpB4kvXSMs## evening everybody um call order the 10th 2024 veter City Commission meeting would everyone please rise to the flat United States of America the stands na liberty and justice Thank you Lisa will you all call please commissioner langra here commissioner Mento commissioner Mento is absent mayor Kel here Lisa would you please read the uh open public meetings notice pursuant to the open public meetings act adequate notice of this meeting has been provided the agenda has been posted on the city website the city in City Hall and on the city's website thank you would you please read the live streaming announcement you have enough breath the city of ventor offers live streaming and the option of public comment via remote access public who participates remotely will be muted during the commission meeting except during the public comment portions of the meeting any persons attempting to disrupt the meeting may be denied access at the discretion of the city in the event remote access is unavailable due to a technology malfunction or other reason be be beyond the city's control the city will not POS or stop the live meeting City commission meetings are held in person and the public is welcome to attend the best way to ensure an individual's ability to publicly comment is to attend in person so that the comments may be made in the event of a technology malfunction the city reserves the right to discontinue offering a public comment via remote access at the discretion for for any future meetings thank you uh thank you very much uh we have no presentations scheduled for this evening we have no department head reports um there is no Capital discussion but Commission lra you'd like to give some updates regarding any capital projects yes we have quite a few construction projects going on in the city uh now um first is Winchester Avenue bulkhead we're about overall 50% complete bulkhead itself is more than that but there's a lot of other work going on in that area um taking out the old bulkhead some tiebacks as well as um some Paving and concrete flat work that'll have to be done there so that we anticipate that being finished sometime late winter early spring um traffic signals the Little Rock Project the smaller one which was just a uh not a traffic signal but a um pedestrian Crossing signal is complete except for some punch list items we had a a volume issue that we seem to have been able to resolve we've lowered it as much as we're legally allowed to lower it there was a threshold we're down at the bottom of that so we hope that works out for the residents there um concrete work should start next week on Oxford Avenue for that traffic intersection uh that again we hope that should be finished by sometime early spring Somerset Avenue sewer that's really out to bid it's not uh we hope to award that in November that's in 90% design phase woodwalk Lumber we hope to award that also that's going out to bid award that in December just for the purchase of the lumber same for the basketball court that should also go out and be awarded in November one of our only meeting in November um sh ask we could talk to the mic okay we trying to do that in read to we have that the thing do you have that all right um Bolton Avenue storm that's really not too much going on there that's really it for Capital Improvements the Army Corps did advise us that they awarded the beach replenishment project to Great Lakes that will start sometime this winter uh they did not give us an exact date and the total project is $38 million we figured our portion of that is going to be about7 to $900,000 estimated um other stuff's really announcements so that's really just the capital stuff for now okay thank you yep did you um coming through your office Tom or I didn't hear it about any of the bids for the stage coming oh that's the top thing yeah the 17th 17th is we'll get the bid opening on 10:17 10:17 is a bid opening a week from today okay thank you um so going through the these uh these next items are um going to be taken action on in the in the normal meeting uh these are um uh this is our our Workshop meeting so we're open for discussion Among Us um first is the minutes of September 26 we're going to be pulling those um so that um we can hold off until commissioner Mento is back you were abent we here right um then we have ordinance introduction and this is an increase of the merchant heal license across the board for all um uh Residential Properties so our Merchant till license for all short-term rentals the ordinance increasing the fee from 500 to 750 mayor can I can I just clarify we had a tiered system that was 500 one bedroom 750 for two and a th000 for three or more uh but the the third party that manages this for us really isn't able to effectively do the tiered system so we're doing this is a recommendation to change those fees to a flat fee of 750 regardless so it's not technically an increase it's an increase if you had a one bedroom otherwise it's kind of status quo okay so all right I don't I it's still I I don't have any any issues with that no it it's a functionality thing we weren't able to like I said the um host group that we had that helps us manage these wasn't able to do the tiers so it came to us and said look let's just make it a flat rate and we don't have run many one bedroom so it's not affecting a ton of right okay good uh next item is uh resolution is um uh looks like I'm a little bit out of ordinance uh adoption public hearing adoption this is amending the vehicles and traffic section 21430 for parking this is provide uh the north Derby uh Avenue uh so it's public hearing for that um and this is so that we're changing the no parking on North Derby on the east side from the hours of 7 am. to 9:00 a.m. on Wednesdays only to allow AA to handle trash collection so I'm sure there'll be some learning curve for those neighbors to get used to that change but they basically asked for it so that because it's such a hard Street to navigate anything anything else to we had a a meeting with the residents there we sent out a letter to all the folks that live on the 100 and 200 block of North Derby and we met with them about 12 of them I say one Saturday morning um ACA was here um we had our PB was here and I think public works yeah Rick was here somebody from Public Works was here trash trucks weren't able to get down the street when everybody was parking there in the summertime so this will allow the inside of that curve right at thir before you get to the bridge no parking from the fire hydrant all the way to the to Dorset Avenue so that'll allow that to happen for two hours on Wednesday mornings allows trash and recycling to be picked up and they're going to actually add um yard waste the same day right so they're goingon to do it all the same day that's smart that doesn't happen anywhere else so it's good that's a really hard Street to navigate and with all the new construction on it makes it even more difficult so hopefully that's a solution um then we have uh a number of uh tax abatements so this is through consent um resolutions 2024 d2770 4-2 94 29 287 are all tax abatements these resolutions cover the following residen is 105 South suffk 100 South Portland 108 South of Rosboro 5115 a Atlantic Avenue 55 505 Atlantic Avenue 5703 Atlantic Avenue 3 North Buffalo 5 North Buffalo 210 North har 9003 North Cambridge and lastly one 17b North Portland Avenue so that's a a lot of tax abatements I still think that program is is obviously popular and works for the city and for the residents in my opinion um and then we go on to uh uh resolutions to dispose a surplus that's no longer in use um a resolution is another tax refund uh in the amount of $688 uh another resolution is another tax refund of $9,400 and another uh refunding a floor floor PL a floor plane permit of $50 so this is mostly um record keeping stuff and the last PQ andr are resolution uh interlocal government access agreement for the Atlantic City uh AC uh Utilities Authority to propose the purpose of interconnecting for the Water Systems this is something we renew every five years I believe that right that's correct and then um this and then the Q is a resolution they're author authorizing milling and Paving on Edgewater Avenue not to exceed 36 and the last of the um uh resolutions by consent is authorizing an amendment to our fire chiefs appointment agreement that is to um basically bring up into this similar conditions as our uh police chief we all discuss that in priate so that's it for the consent then we will have uh bills and payrolls um and uh any discussion items this even evening Tom or Lance do you have anything to discuss thank I think we have one thing that we'll discuss an executive that's I that's about it okay um and then um the only other thing uh I mean it's really just to to make you aware there's been a some discussion about uh parking uh grace period so that's something that we've been discussing internally and I believe the VBA has asked us to ask me to meet them next Tuesday if you want to join for that meeting um you're more than welcome commissioner yeah I have a hearing that night there's a discussion about the grace period which is normally from November 1st to March 31st um which is normally I'm sorry uh which is I don't mean to throw curveball here there's if I didn't I don't think I mentioned it but um we're just talking about how it works now and maybe adding some more time to it as well Thanksgiving to great it was uh it was uh Thanksgiving to just Black Friday to um to uh I think by resolution it was always to like January but then we extended it last year to March I think April right so we're talking about doing it even sooner possibly November 1 if everybody's in agreement on so look for that in the discussions okay and then um uh so uh at this point we can open up for public comment uh any any items that we've talked about so far um can I have a motion for opening up the uh for a public comment on anything that we've talked about so far make that motion second roll call Lisa commissioner langra yes mayor creel yes there'll be another uh portion of the meeting for open for public comment on anything this is for just about things that we've talked about so far in the workshop you like to speak anything we talked about so far if you have something else then you can wait till the till the very end anybody in the on the on Zoom that would like to speak about anything we've talked about so far just Anette in here so unless she has something she wants to ask nette okay she usually calls yes then we're good all right good good seeing n that um seeing none um motion to close public portion so moved second roll call Lisa commissioner langra yes mayor Kel yes that closes the workshop portion of tonight's meeting uh we will not be approving minutes from September 6 these will be scheduled on October 24th can I have a motion to introduce ordinance 20242 4 as described motion to introduce ordinance 2024 d024 second roll call Lisa commissioner langra yes mayor Kel yes I have a motion to open for public hearing ordinance 202 24-23 I'll make that motion I'll second I have a roll call Lisa commissioner langr yes yes anyone from the public have a public comment ordinance 023 anyone in the zoom have a public comment on ordinance 023 this is uh no parking on North Derby no hearing none I have a motion to close public comment so moved second roll call Lisa commissioner L yes mayor cable yes I have a motion to adopt ordinance 2024 d023 as described motion to adopt 202 24-23 second roll call Lisa commissioner lra yes mayor creel yes may have a motion to adopt resolutions 2024-25 through 24-29 4 by consent make that motion second at roll call Lisa commission langra yes mayor Kel thank you and um who's going to read bills and payroll I'll do it so we pay payroll from September 15 through September 28 2024 in the amount of $695,000 sense thank you can I have a motion to pay bills and payroll make that motion second I will second roll call Lisa commissioner langra yes mayor Creo yes seeing no announcements for safety reports this evening uh there any commissioner comments commissioner langra uh just a couple um I already talked about the beach replenishment um with the weather we've been having we're going to keep the pier open until November 1st uh October 31st or whichever was easier to do when everybody's on um also there's a post out there on the beach chair Corrals we're going to start you if you have chairs out there please take them out of the Corrals by November 1st if not we will cut the locks and throw them in the trash so not be time well this weekend was today was um the last thing is something we've talked about a couple of times both here and at the planning board meeting and that's these new um uh New Jersey pack rules that the D through the governor governor has proposed to change will significantly negatively impact we believe and most local municipalities are against them Senator Palestina sent out a a letter to the Press Atlantic City our consultant Jim Rell planning consultant um asked us or we already have a resolution that we passed against it as us we wanted to put together a letter to also send up to the D um this been a long ongoing process they've been published now and the comment period ends I think the end of next week I think the 17th something like that a week from today um and we we put a resolution together we can put a letter it doesn't we've asked them for two years to change these rules and they have not budged um they met with us they met with us here with K May County reps Ocean County reps Atlanta County representation and said oh yeah we list they good ideas didn't change a thing um these will signific ly negatively impact development on the Barrier Islands um they are looking at data that's old we are planning for the year 2100 for flooding at that point we should look at it incrementally that's what Senator palistine is asking for um in his letter it was in the press a couple weeks ago a couple days ago I should say um so I don't know if we want to do another letter we can put something together basically mimic his and just send it up to our Representatives so they can pass it on to legislature that's the biggest problem they didn't do this through legislature they did it through rul making which is problematic um it came up with the green team meeting as well and if you think about them looking for you know their sustainability and the and they are you know they are against it as well really yeah I mean they were discussion we did the state adopted and the FEDS adopted a lot of rules through FEMA these Su supersede FEMA those are the experts FEMA is the experts on this stuff you know they're a little busy this week and last couple weeks down in Florida but this is something that is is just too egregious you're going to have people that already raised their homes and they're not going to be able to get flood insurance because these rules required in certain areas to raise it another five feet you you're going to have lifts in the middle of the street to LIF people up to their house so I don't know what they're just from a practic bases our lots are small you get stairs around it just houses like that you're going to be into the RightWay yeah in almost every house they're GNA be internals what's going to happen you're going to put them in through the through the door and then into the house and take up all the space yeah yeah so anyway I agree we could write a letter we can also I don't know what Margate Margate or Longport are doing yeah they're just as impacted yep all right I'll we'll try and put something Jim said he would help write it so good we can do that yep he was on could you just clarify what that is because we're not sure what they're asking Lance sure so the state about two years ago decided to change the rules on how high homes had to be different development zones they created different um velocity zones um on the coastline and by implementing those rules if you went to rebuild your home or if your home was damaged by fire or something like that or you wanted to build a new home we're going to have to add 5 ft to what is already elevation 12 right now you have to build your finished floor in most zones at elevation 12 so the ground outside City Hall this is the highest part of the Island right around here uh I'll take my home for example the elevation on my driveway is nine so my finish floor has to be three feet above that right now add five feet to that so then you're at 17 feet above flood elevation above zero so that's exactly the problem it's not just homes businesses parking lots is the the most idiotic requirement you have to build a parking lot not a garage a parking lot above that elevation why if this area is going to flood no one's parking the car here if they are trying to get rid of it which happens but you know if if if if it's flooding that bad people aren't here we get it people left Florida we didn't have as many fatalities I don't haven't heard from Milton but people knew to get out of the way um it's it's frustrating that we rot we rais these issues and it's not just us Senator paltin is an engineer he knows this stuff hands down he does this work for a living and we brought him in he jumped on it like I said two years ago we met in this room and had the deputy secretary of or deputy director of the D here who brought our concerns to him oh there'll be off ramps off ramps don't work with the pay they just off answer some um waivers I should use a different term um they're very difficult to deal with we're running into it now with our Boardwalk project so we might not be able to remove vegetation while we're replacing the boardwalk how do you do that so it's frustrating your deal in the state agency um and that's why we're pushing back on it um knowing that we're not probably going to win this battle because those rules will be adopted in the next 20 30 days yeah for if you want to if your home is damaged or you're going to build a new home you're going to have to meet these new rules and if so for example say if you elevated your home after Sandy and you're at elevation 12 now the new rules are at 17 5 feet higher they will not your FEA insurance is going to go through the roof because your flood insurance you don't comply anymore so some people have spent $150,000 to elevate their house to meet standards FEMA standards and now they're going to go up I'm doing it right now my start oh and you're the exact person that we're concerned about yeah because now your flood insurance is going to be higher I'm I'm trying to pay my house off so I don't have to pay flood insurance that that's the answer if you don't you don't get flood insurance if you don't have mortgage you don't have to you can you don't have to um it's frustrating it's extremely we've been trying before Tom even got it we've been bat on this this whole thing and and it's just not it's fallen on deaf ears and I tell you the biggest issue I have with it is it wasn't done through the the ru making process it was it was just the governor executive order passed these rules didn't go through the legislature none of our one of our local Representatives had a say in it so after 30 days what are the options if they're going to adopt it in 30 days what what do people have our litigation you know are all the municipalities going to get together and file litigation against it and trying to get a judge to stop it I don't know that's that's one of our only ways around it so the clock's ticking clock's ticking and it does it it is kind of like the pendulum swung so far in the other direction where a gradual you know I don't think anybody denies that there's flooding problems that we should absolutely but but yeah but this just doesn't seem like we can we can respond what's to people that can't go steps maybe today they can walk them maybe tomorrow something happens and exactly most people put elevators in you have to get to the elevator steps to get to the elevator put elev they have so what I've seen in homes now that come before the planing board a lot is you you walk in a door and basically into your garage and you have an elevator in your garage that takes you upstairs exposed room yeah and all the Mechanicals have to be above that so it's really lifting it up it's not pushing it up it's a it's a sea change for the design of the entire all the residences and commercial buildings and the municipal buildings in town so it it just seems like like it's been rushed yep that's I have okay um yeah um the only thing I had was um I want to congratulate the green team again for being awarded a silver level certification this is something that um you know that's a that's a all volunteer organization they work Pressly I think where the nanet is on she is e haror city is the only other County in Atlantic besides ourselves that has this she was there first um to get the silver designation it um it does uh it does a lot of things it gives us uh um not just the recognition and Prestige but it gives us more access to Grants and funding um it uh the the actions that they take have real Community impact and environmental impact and if you've seen it over the years if you it's hard not to not to see the everything from the plastic B bag band um pollinator Garden they've been active in other things that we've done as a city like the charging stations uh they've done a tree inventory thing every year they do a number of these actions they brought them to a silver level where we got the the plastic um microplastics the microplastic from them came from Steve you know these are this is doesn't happen in every municipality these are all these are these are an active and very well um uh well thought of and and well educated Green Team so I just wanted to thank them um for that um I also had a brief meeting today with the acit on the conceptual design for the Ecco Park they seem very excited about putting it into their curriculum for next uh semester um having the having their students part of it um so we're gonna meet again next week um and they have some other professionals that want to get involved in that as well to sort of help with the students and be a part of that and I um uh Tom and I discussed proposals for uh designs from our pool of Engineers for that as well a get proposals for proposals I guess will be the next step and that's all I have um so uh this time I can open the floor up for take a motion for public comment so moved I'll second have a roll call Lisa commission lra yes mayor Creo yes so at this point the public meeting is open for comment to discuss any topic of interest if you want come to the microphone state your name and address for the record and Michelle Gratz 224 North nework Avenue I am here to propose new bike hours controversial topic I am sure there are people that love bikers on the boardwalk people that hate bikers on the boardwalk I love to ride on the B Boardwalk I went up on a boardwalk on a Sunday evening and and I was actually very surprised to see the class one officers telling people they had to get off because I love to ride my bike on the boardwalk and there was actually very few people on the boardwalk right so I did a little bit of investigation and I found that you know like I said people hate to ride on you know hate people on the boardwalk so I I look to see how many bike accidents there are and there really are actually very few accidents I had a friend who did an Oprah request found that this summer there was only two there was two in August and they actually were one was at 9:21 in the morning and one was at 8:05 at night on the boardwalk on the boardwalk so there's very few so I thought about it when is the best time to have people on the boardwalk riding it's certainly not when the lifeguards are there that's where you have the most people on the boardwalk right 10:00 a.m. is when the lifeguards go 6:00 pm is when they go off so if you think about it if you have if you let B people ride on the buttboard walk 5:00 a.m. to say 10:00 a.m. and then most people are off the beach about 5:00 p.m. let them on 5:00 p.m. to about 10 p.m. that's when you have most people are off the boardwalk because you're most people are going on and off while people are on the beach so if you think about it the reason why you want to let bikers on the boardwalk is during those hours safety and reduced foot traffic riding early in the morning and later in the evening coincide with lower foot traffic it also allows people to ride to and from work so you have people like your badge Checkers they can get from here to where they need to be to check badges you have people who work in Atlantic City who live in ventner like I actually have some friends who work at the hospital like to ride their bikes so they'll be able to ride to and from still to work and it promotes a healthy lifestyle which means physical activity for all ages it promotes a healthier Community the boardwalk is a safe place for exercise a lot of people don't like to ride in the street you know Atlantic Avenue Venter Avenue it's hard to ride alongside the cars that are park there I know I don't like to ride there I love the boardwalk tourism appeal the boardwalk um most people enjoy riding on the boardwalk it's a way to explore Coastal area it enhances the attractiveness of Venter as a destination for a visitor who wants to experience the boardwalk in a unique way there's environmental benefits promoting biking reduces a Reliance on Motor Vehicles contributing to a lower carbon emissions and a more environmentally friendly community and if we likee during those hours it's a limited disrup disruption minimizes potential disruption to drian so it's a compromise between the bikers and the pedestrians so I hope you'll consider this I think it's a good compromise I I like the idea we we've talked about it we were looking for hours to see how we could do it 10 to six already you're not allowed to ride we know that for the lifeguards and the beach access um well if you look at the ordinance during the week it's I think you're allowed to ride all day it's the weekends it says Saturday and Sunday till noon but then if you let people back on in the evening I think it would be enough compromise so I hope you'll consider that I like the suggestions um yeah no might even extend it later into the evening we're always debating this the the flip side side there's always a you know an an an action to a reaction um is that um people that prefer to walk don't wa to walk when bikes are on the boardwalk yes and that and it's usually old older folks that feel comfortable when bikes are going by that's also sometimes um that and that's usually incidental when there are people that are speeding on those bikes like those that could be those kids that you said that are Beach badge Checkers that then for them at that age they feel like it's their time so you're taking something away but for me and I agree I think that a b a more bikable Community is more walkable community and evenings when people are going to dinner potentially they could use the the boardwalk rather than the the bike Lanes on the street so I'm I think we just have to come together on on the times yeah yeah might be push the bikes in the evening after maybe sevenish you know what I mean let them don't let them come back on until after 7 so people are walking to dinner and walking after dinner so the other confusion or the other conflict is that the beaches and the lifeguards may leave at 5: but that means everybody's walking off so you have you're you're inviting that cross traffic at 5:00 if you allow them five so push it a little bit later you P seven six seven because you also want people maybe to be able to ride home from the beach on their bikes too yeah yeah and daylight hours is one of the rules and that's only that's during the um winter the winter I think it's all the time during daylight hours so were you at night on a Sunday when you got as we actually it was around five o'clock in August in August it was August so it wasn't it was still yeah we had a 5-year-old with us so we didn't go too late yeah yeah no it's I agree I'd rather be on the boardwalk and away from cars especially with all the the the you know that little ones you know but thank you for considering it sure thanks Michelle thank you Hi H here my name's Barbara Castle 713 at Cambridge Avenue um my goal today is to open a discussion regarding a city ordinance matter myself Shelley deria as well as many members of our community have expressed concern over the unpleasant facade of 6606 vetner Avenue the Dollar General uh which recently opened in our downtown business district uh the concern prompted me to ask what can we do as a proud City and Community to transform that situation into an opportunity to enhance Revitalize and create Something Beautiful by way of a thoughtful and professionally executed mural um of importance is the owner of the building as well as the tenant Dollar General who has a 10year lease have given permission to erect a mural in the front of that building um and also of importance is according to Dollar General Dollar General's manager it's the only Dollar General location on a moon Street in town rather than on the outskirts this Revelation is a further incentive to create a more aesthetically pleasing storefront with an optimistic mindset I have tentatively set up a neural art committee consisting of myself Shelly suan Dy and Patty Kiora to ensure the mural lines with the heart and soul of vetner in closing I would finally add that research shows that public art enhances pride in the neighborhood it boosts economic activity shows visual representation of history and its culture it provides a photo opportunity to the community and its visitors it elevates people's moods and helps to combat social isolation and anxiety I thank you all for your Keen attention and your consideration thanks Barbara thank you um we have Murs on other buildings there's one at vener Coffee there's one at um suntan place on the sides I think distinction is the front is what they're asking and then shoms has it on the side right yeah so all ins side of building right and so that if we were to have as as example 666 Venter Avenue I don't know if you're familiar with that building it's a whole street long um it's not very appealing to the white wall to the downtown and I went up and looked at it because I was on the Venter Forum everybody was talking about it and I rode my bike up there and I stood across the street and looked at it and thought wow this is just a blind canvas waiting for and I'm a huge art fan and a huge fan of uh mules and cities excuse me and I went back and wrote on the back on the S and so what did people feel about a mural an overwhelming response of people said oh my goodness it would be wonderful it would be the first it would be a big deal a real big deal here because it would be the first front-facing mural really around I knew Brigantine doesn't have any um it's not typical to have one in the front of the building so it would be a huge kind of innovative thing to do um but I think that I I guess what I'm saying is what can we do as a community a city when we have a building that is not aligning with how we want our downtown to look is there anything we can do excuse me and also to bring also public art into the Forefront um some people have proposed that a mural goes on the side of that building but what good will a a mural do on the side of that building and then leave the building blank um I just think it's something that would bring a lot of attention to vetner um I knew the Jane golden I don't know if anyone's familiar with her but she grew up in Atlantic City in Margate and she um went to land City High School she founded the Philadelphia mural arts program she's probably number she's probably the most famous person regarding new arts in the world is there a r they can't do it on the front of the building uh painting a signs directly on a wall window it says sign it's not a sign so so if it's not it doesn't advertise the product that's being sold or the business it's not a sign it's a mural it's art right we I think we have any jurisdiction over it yeah so that kind of where I was going I and I don't know that we want to create an ordinance that encourages it in a way because then you're so I've been involved in several them in Atlantic City and if as long as the building owner is okay with it the tenant's okay with it and it's not obscene obscene which well that's why I problem trying to what the judge say one time I know what it is I see it I just can't explain it yeah I know I'm talking about this not saying the right words so I think what you're also what you're also proposing is not just this single and this is where I think we have to draw a distinction you're proposing maybe doing a project across the whole city and for me I I mean are you or not to create a committee for this one particular Forefront would be between you the owners and the the people who rent it and then for the city's involvement it like as Lance said I don't think it would be it as long as it's not inappropriate it's G-rated yes absolutely would be G-rated and that's why I said we would have U forming art committee were suve and Dy and several people who are respected in the community with an eye for art would be the ones that would say yes this crosses you know checks all the boxs of what's appropriate and that would be I think what what I wanted to do is that would be the first mural and Shelly had an amazing extraordinary idea um and she said that down the line if other businesses said wow well we want we want a mural too um then maybe it could be something that falls under the beautification committee that we handle and they do a lottery and once once per year we one business has refund half of it or whatever is made up and then at least it's a slow growth it's one per year um and all the stores are much smaller but yeah I think that I mean I think public art is beautiful and I think it brings a lot of attention and I actually think that it would bring I think that I actually reached out to Jane golden because I I interviewed a couple of new artists um their names are uh the Barbons they have a um an art gallery in Brigantine and they were their name was given to me as the you know the top neural artists in the area so they came to the building and looked at it they told me a price of what it would be I told them some ideas and we talked about all those things and then in order to be able to say to you guys um this next statement I called Jane Golden's office and spoke with her assistant and told her we were from I was from ventner what my idea was would who would she um who who would she pick as her top candidates to do the mural and I was so happy that it was the people that I picked the people that I interviewed in the G so I know that um so I guess my question goes sorry sorry to Nicole it's not a sign it's not a sign I'd say we don't I'm was trying to see if we had any I have the here it says the only thing that would really came up was the last ordinance last the line of Ordinance one 102-118 that says the painting of signs directly on a wall window or other portion of a building is prohibited so it doesn't really say it doesn't use the word mural or use the word r but a sign is defined as advertising either a business or a product yeah yeah but I think what's being suggested here I don't want to put words in people's mouths is to create by ordinance a committee where somebody wanting to do this would have to file an application okay that would be reviewed by the committee yes and subject to their approval all right I don't know that's attic City works right Atlantic City has 110 murals I know I I them with let me speak a minute um so they have the Arts down they have 48 blocks Arts Foundation L city arts Foundation whatever they call it and it's residents some artists um business owners and some people from the city as well and that's what they put together I mean I don't have a problem doing that what you have to be careful of is if they come up with an idea we as a city can't say unless it's blatantly vulgar right it's hard to say no because it's art right well that's why you fli the burden on super bur Shelly right okay exactly I said I'm funds in Atlantic City have really sprued up a lot of the buildings in AC yeah and it's helped and that's the point I was going to make is that a lot of times that you see these very honorable mural programs are in cities like uh West Philadelphia where I you know had a friend that was part of that or Asbury Park where there are empty storefronts where there there as as a as an approach to change the blight into something that's attractive to help spur development I don't know that I don't really think vendor at the place where we need to need a a mural on every like that and so where you're going to find disagreement and with me is that I I I personally would like to see the downtowns of vender have attractive storefronts and where there's a a large space that's not facing the street that's where I would see a mural I I don't I personally think that the downtowns are a and or should be a a destination but they should also feature the businesses first and in that type of a light okay so you're going to find those you're going to find you know art is a subjective and so programs but as as our administrator says I don't think any of I don't think the two of us have any objection to you be you taking the burden of starting a committee that would then present the are you interested in having Nicole draft an ordinance that would create that committee for you I don't have it yeah objection to it start it off I think that's look and and look some of the murals might not be like as flashy as they have in AC but a mural in the front of the building that creates the downtown um that you're looking like almost in this case like a storefront of a of a GU exactly look like that and then you you can add that might be a little bit of a signage kind of thing we' have to cross that threshold when when we get there but I mean that's something that if you look at I'm trying to think which casino Tropicana had it y along Pacific Avenue they had was it was relief it wasn't really a mural it was actually carved into the stone right concrete but that's something you could do people looks like people are walking down the street but it's a mural yeah yeah that's something yeah and I definitely think too that um there's many many people get to the microphone Shelly if you want to talk there's many many people who um would enjoy that yeah listen that's um I don't I don't disagree that there's Merit um I just I yeah I understand your I understand I get where you're coming from too so thank you very much I I think sh wants to talk on else yeah come you have to come up and you have to raise your house shall we goio 5,000 Boardwalk you're okay I'm okay okay uh my opinion is if you keep with a seashore theme you won't run into a problem of PE some people being offended and it's a soft look rather than something very bold and see keep it flowing and this way we won't have run into an issue like we did with the utility boxes right something that I would love ens sure to find somebody who'll be offended by anything that gets a SE hard to trust me a SE trust me there's there pretty much there's a deep bench of folks that just art in general I mean you know there were you know there were Monae was was thrown out he was an impressionist and they who is this person they can't draw a straight line you know like there there's no there's there's no there's no right answer right but we want to keep it soft and flowing yeah and keep the concept you know rather than different you know something bold here something soft there just be consistent yeah to keep the down town looking very upscale I I I don't I don't disagree there's Merit just U caution and we'll support you with an ordinance and uh just keep us in the loop yes than you all right any other public comment commission be on Committee just do the final Mar is not here so we Nom n decide that later on but just one comment on on from the net says egg harb city has Brands only they don't have General T L well I said setting goals you'll get silver soon oh wow okay all right I'm sure you're on the way net um any other public comments in the zoom other than net no there's no one else here well hearing none we got ex section I close the public comments section we have a motion to close motion to close second roll call Lisa commissioner langra yes mayor Kel yes uh I believe we have executive session uh Lisa will you please read the statement the new jerseys open public meeting act permits the discussion of certain matters within executive session as an exception to certain provisions of said law the vendor City Board of Commissioners wishes to discuss certain matters which qualify in its exception in executive session no action binding upon the Board of Commissioners will be taken with an executive session and the discussion conducted in closed session will be disclosed to the public when legally permitted and when the public interest will no longer be served by keeping such matters confidential the matter should be discussed or attorney client privilege So Lisa you have a call yes uh we are back from our executive session during the executive session we talked about uh pending litigation in the matter of com Tech versus the city ventner um due to the fact that it's pending litigation that's all we can say at this point seeing no further business tonight uh ask for a motion to adjourn so moved second Lisa roll call commissioner lry yes mayor kbo yes cigar 63