##VIDEO ID:wjkQmqf0LQc## uh 53 to call the order October 24th 2024 ventor City Commission meeting would everyone please rise to the flag I pledge un States Lisa roll call please commissioner langra here commissioner Mento here mayor Kel here Lisa would you read please read the open public meeting notice pursuant to the open public meetings act adequate notice of this meeting has been provided the agenda has been posted in City Hall and on the city's website thank you uh would you please read the live streaming announcement the city of ventner offers live streaming and the option of public comment via remote access public who participate remotely will be muted during the commission meeting except during the public comment portions of the meeting any person attempting to disrupt the meeting may be denied access at the discretion of the city in the event remote access is unavailable due to a technology malfunction or other reason be beyond the city's control the city will not pause or stop live streaming will stop live meetings City commission meetings are held in person and the public is welcome to attend the best way to ensure an individual's ability to publicly comment is to attend in person so that the comments May may be made in the event of a technology malfunction the city reserves the right to discontinue offering public comment via remote access at the discretion for any future meetings thank you uh we have no presentations this evening uh we have no department head presentations this meeting I believe we're going to be starting those up again soon we you have that in mind believe so um we have uh nothing scheduled for Capital discussion um and we will be approving um minutes from September 26 2024 regular meeting uh we do not have any ordinances for introduction um we have an ordinance for a public hearing and adoption ordinance is 2024 d024 this ordinance amends chapter 1492 of the code which governs our resid Cal properties meranti license the ordinance will be setting the registration fee for for all size um rental properties to $750 per year any questions on that that's for short-term rental properties correct short-term rental properties correct as merchant license for short-term rental property mayor I have which will it be a public comment on that it'll be at yes at the end um we have resolutions and contracts uh by consent the first is 2024-25 the first resolution is a chapter 159 this is uh dlps Emergency Management assistance 2023 in the amount of $110,000 so this is accepting um that Grant um 20 next is 202 24-29 7 this resolution confirms that we have reviewed best practices 2024 best practices inventory and we are in compliance to receive 100% of that funding we do that every year uh 202 24-29 is a resolution accepting uh the award of the ffy 24 emergency performance Grant in the amount of $10,000 202 24-29 this resolution accepts the retirement of Mary garfinkle Mary works at the public works department she began working here in 1990 we wish her best uh in her retirement last year anything you want to add to that just that Mary's been there a long time 34 years um integral part of of keeping the boys in line over there sometimes so uh she'll be missed um and hard to replace we we're finding that out we've got interviews coming up in a couple weeks so uh good luck to her we wish her well and uh thanks for her 34 years of dedication to ventor city thank you so um we will be adding From the Bench tonight uh resolution 2024 D300 that as that is the asphalt payment right but it's Blackjack yeah it's for blackjack this is for um project AV Lafayette Avenue we just redid the other side of the street there's a crack opening up it's been there for a while it's gotten kind of be problematic right out in front of the school so we're just going to do a repair there uh 4 foot wide by whatever length it is to repair that it m up and repair that section okay thank you the resolution um uh as you described not to exceed the amount of 2,242 uh I believe we're adding uh resolution 301 correct Lisa well I don't know after discuss after discussion after discussion yeah same with 302 same with 302 um we'll be uh approving bills and pay this evening and we have four items listed for discussion uh commissioner Langer if you want to take a first one pedal assist pedal assist bike ordinance extending and extending bike extend bike hours yeah so we've been talking about we had a a woman come in last month or two weeks ago at our meeting looking at increasing the hours of of biking on the boardwalk in the summertime uh right now it's limited after 600 pm. um there no bikes are allowed I know we want to certainly keep it open for walkers but I think if we did something maybe after after 800 PM um I don't know if we've come together on a on a time yet on to to allow that but I think later in the evening is is a lot of people still use it to go down Atlantic City in the summertime um back and forth so there was I heard several complaints this summer from people getting pushed off the boardwalk when you know they've always used it in the past just we were enforcing it so right now you're not allowed to ride from 6 pm to 6: am on the boardwalk so I would think we would change that to I'm open discussion on the hours it's just something that so you're talking about summertime yes and still day winter time they're allowed to they are in the dark yeah it's still light till 8m daylight hours except for Saturday and Sunday July 1st the Labor Day right so what about Saturday and Sunday would you it would be open to evenings I guess throughout can I clarify what the word that says yeah yeah it is dusk or daylight hours correct daylight hours right except between Memorial Day and Labor day Saturday and Sunday right 6 a to noon 6 AM to 6 AM to no daylight hours ET on Saturday and Sunday you can't ride from so 6 PM no no Saturday and Sunday you can only ride till right correct want ENT till Monday right something to where 6 to8 like 6m add right you want to add evening hours on the weekends up 9.m or something 10 p.m. yeah after 10 p.m. or or shut it down at 10 p.m. shut it down what's the issue of having bicyclist up there because it's lit well one of the things that we have concerns with the juvenes yeah hanging out for certain criminal element understood using it as to enter and okay so and I think so we could do it in in the summertime we could allow it on the weekends up to 10 p.m. or something like that that's what I was thinking like 8 to 10: on the yeah then that gives the Walker time while L Up is on holidays so those three holidays memoral dayly July laor day if they're on a week day we struggle in those afternoon early evening hours with tons of bicycles people to the beach right everybody stays late that's the intent of kind of cutting up when I was a you know young top class one back in the 90s this is much more restrict than it is now every day 6 a.m. to 10. and that was it I remember that from May 1 to like through through September and then we kind of little by little made it less restrictive yeah I think we got also keep in mind that the intent is War Walk is narrow we have influx of people coming to from the beach you know keys so for using those showers up in the boardwalk so you know you allow the bicycles up there yeah most people are going to BU by and ride in a cautious manner but going to get those that don't right I think France that could cause problems so I agree during the the beach hours you know 12 to to 6: PM definitely no bikes there's people walking back and forth I agree with that completely um but like again during those like a busy holiday weekday or even Friday you're the work daylight hours I think we could probably do better at setting in time instead of daylight hours wouldn't that be you think that's a better way to handle that yeah I think as long as 8 n o' 10 o' summer time yeah the riding of the bikes at night would be after whatever period we think people are going to be up there walking yeah a lot of people walk right after dinner maybe walk two dinnner they're coming back 8 n o'clock so maybe it would be you know 9 to 11 I don't know if it's just an hour I don't know if that's even worthwhile doing no whatever it is I think you should be specific with the time though daylight hours is open to interpretation and it changes every day right right Setter doesn't mean when it gets dark because it takes another 20 minutes half an hour after the sun is down before it's really dark and you'll have people that will argue with that be in court arguing with Nicole or with somebody so yeah and the intend is people safe 9 kind okay all right in the summertime 9.m all right we just set weekend you afternoon they're going to be king people off right right now Monday through Friday the way we enfor it Monday through Friday is basically up until 9:00 p.m. after 9:00 p.m. you're going get to get off walk okay all the weekends it's 6: a.m. to I don't think the issue is with wintertime hours I think the wintertime hours are working fine yeah it's more the summertime when people want to ride and the shoulder seat long right May September shoulder God all the signs have I was about to mention that all the signs have to be managed somehow either changed or labeled I hated that we had labels on the last set but we were actually talking about redoing those signs to make them a little bit more Compact and to add a larger presence of no dogs allowed because we still see a lot of that yeah and we see a lot of um so if the hours are going to change we have to change all 50 signs I think that's about how many something like that I think it's 24 times two but there's two at each yeah so crossover but the but I think we could give it a try I would my thought would be 8 to 10 as as a evening hour um during the week and then weekends no yeah because Atlantic City has no no no wait no weekend hours in the summer at all they 24 hours all other days except summer weekends okay y um it isn't the need on the weekend right yeah it is but that's what I'm saying we allow from 8 to 10: yeah but you you said during the week oh on the week yeah not even on the weekends right yeah I kind of feel like you might want to do the weekends like eight to8 to 10 it's just gonna be that's where the conflict is gonna be from the the other side after or after the Saturday and look I gota tell you we write one ordinance violation for Bing no it's just right to get off it's kind of unless they're actually def yeah I think it's over why don't we take a stab at a at an ordinance Amendment where we could extend it 8 to 10 in the summertime during the week see where that goes you have to consider weekend as well as Memorial Day right what do you want to do the rest of the year Well Nicole why don't you get with Chief put something together you've heard our comments and then see throw it around as a draft we can all make our comments on it we'll have public Ben when we get to public sect so changing daylight to a hour yes daylight to hour so what hours were we to 10 o'clock yeah during the off season like now yeah remember what do you want till 10 o'clock because presently it says daylight hours except for July July 1 to Labor Day it's where you have the hours six to 10 or 6 to noon um but otherwise the rest of the year it's day daylight hours right and that's will it all be the same all year no the other thing was with the chief just mentioned about Memorial Day this has it's it starts the summer essentially July 1 right so I don't know if you want to back that up that's probably a good ideaal one of your difficult days the Memorial Day like maybe the Friday before Memorial Day Weekend yep yeah well I looked at like couple other ordinances they SP out the holidays if they do have like big week yeah well we won't put that on sign that just longer than the weekend they but in the offseason you're looking to go to 10 p.m. yeah yeah so all year and it's not it's just till 10 p.m. no in the a no 6 to no 8 to 10 in the summertime 88 to 10 right I would say 6:00 AM to it's dark in the morning hour so I don't know when you 6 AM to 10 pm. in the offseason to 6 am and then the summer there's mornings on the weekends then the evening hours and sum 6 a. to 10 p.m. except for weekends summer is 6 AM to noon during the week it's during the week it's during the week you don't have yeah off 10 a right right right but the weekends will be 6: am to noon and then 8:00 pm to 10 correct I'm okay with that we're need big sign these are the biking hours we're going to drag one of those trailers up one of these days we're going need a barart get a plane and a banner plane there b plane this for Ben's Bike he can just drag it up the board during during the week in the summertime it's all day long no it's not it is now yes it is now it is now yes okay I thought it stopped at at 10 no no only on Saturday and Sunday okay and we're going to keep that oh you want 10 put time to it except on holidays correct so then so it's always going to be 6: a.m. to 10 p.m. with the exception of the weekends in the summer and holidays correct correct that's a better way of putting then the summer weekends are 8 to 10 yes at night at night 600 am to noon 6 to noon and then 8 pm to 10 p.m. play back the recording of the meeting you got this and chief does that make sense is that what what you're recommending okay and then the other aspect of it we had talked about it back in March I think about pedal assist right and differentiating that from these throttle bicycles that are basically motorcycles right you know they're just so I know we kind of ended that discussion without doing anything on it um we like to Circle that back up we're don't have to dive into it again tonight unless you guys have well Lance I think the the issue that that left us stumped back in March is still the same issue and that's from an enforcement standpoint it's almost impossible for the police to distinguish between a pedal assist and a battery operated one that's a block away you know so here here's here's where do you get to and this is just giving teeth to what we have so so as long as someone's up there they like CH said before acting appropriate driving the bike cautiously and they're not flying down at Full Throttle at 35 mil an hour which these bikes will do but once that person is on that Throttle Bike doing 30 mes hour and we do stop him we have more teeth saying look you're not allowed to be up here here's the fine if it's a pedal assist guy and they don't do you got to Pedal like crazy to get them up to 20 miles an hour um that's what I'm looking to get just so we have some way to there's there's I want to say elderly there seniors out there that that's their exercise that they need that that pedal of to be able to get them out and do something um that's what I'm the niche I'm trying to help with that's the people that came here those those times back in the spring asking if we could do something um I'm just looking for a way to try to help that part of the population out um I don't know the answer I know it's difficult for the and I don't want our our specials or our police officers out there you know stopping everybody hey is this a battery bike or not it it's something that if you do stop them and you you see that there's a throttle on it which it's it's kind of obvious um when you stop them um that's something you can some of them don't even have pedals they just have pegs they don't pedal at all right um foot rest they're just foot rests um John Henderson had one buzzing around the the uh Ski Beach for during Seafood Fest and that thing will do 35 miles an hour it does burnouts it's crazy um what's that that's a motorcycle it is it absolutely is it looks like looks like an off-road you know my concern is the unintended circumstances of people that don't understand the ordinance when you say electric bike is it going to be everybody with no matter what type of electric bike is the higher power of the other they're gonna it's gonna and from coming from Atlantic City they're you're gonna have you're G it's gonna feel like open season for electric bikes no matter what and we are going to have to post officers up there to slow it down if we do that yeah and I mean I think going off with a classification type of bike that's kind of out there the state's kind of going that way roers I talked to two of the bike shops right here that classification that we're looking to all permit they don't sell if they sell 100 of them they sell like people might have them from other towns um just they're they're they're much more expensive and the other bikes have better capabilities of going faster and with L Chief are you hearing a little bit off topic are you hearing that the the state is going to require helmets and things and have those those I can't even call them bicycles yeah I believe so they would have to follow traffic laws well they have to follow traffic laws because they're considered a bicycle yeah but we know how that yeah but they're kind of in between so they get on walks and I was driving sidewalks Route 30 Monday and I'm slowing at the traffic that and guy doing 35 mil hour right right the red light made it time but no hel going the wrong way I'm going westbound he's coming eastbound you see it all over Manhattan is here is a complete a it's a freefor all in Manhattan down I think based on a lot and now you're starting to see unfortunately you're seeing fatalities you City I just saw that yeah area um so I think the state's going to Happ okay maybe maybe we just hold the the pedal assist stuff until the state comes out with some better EGS on them um I'm I'm okay with that I just want to keep the discussion open because I do get asked about it all the time oh so do I and I'm just fearful that if we allow that one component now we l the enforcement aspect of it and it's a freefor all right and they are dangerous they are it's not the person riding it's still the person they get hit yeah those are heavy we have two downstairs the one I got from the the PBA I can't lift it alone yeah so it's I can but it's it's difficult what's what does Atlantic City allow none and I talked to Chief SOS they have that's where anything motor completely yeah and they have the same problem we see all time they enforce it yes when there's police on all right I I I I I I I agree I think we keep the conversation going and when that when they become insured and they become a little bit more regul registered and all that stuff yeah all right I'm I'm okay with that I will I'm okay with tbling that part of it all right so we I just want to point out one other piece and looking at this bicycle ordinance if we're going to be changing those hours there's a lot of stuff in here that's probably outdated and should be cleaned up so would be my recommendation to kind of 100% do it all at once if we're goingon to beang mention of staying in the bicycle path and things like that yeah that's gone there used to be a path up there I even like registering or having them inspected by the fire department yeah we just just need to do some bell it's on there yes a bell lights and reflectors brake requirements have you seen the button now it's like a sock horn I want one of them thanks so it'll be a bit of a overhaul on that bring it up a speed yep all right um okay move on to the next one y everybody uh suspension of parking metters I think we we we through Tom talked about this a little bit yeah um we I did a bit of the table and analyzing what other cities do when I met with the the BBA on the subject um Asbury Park doesn't care they meter everything every day every month but we are we are a little bit more restrictive than other cities like Wildwood Ocean City Cape May Seaside Park Point Pleasant felmar um we are metered in April and in October and um where others are not in some cases so any we we kind of discussed this um and have a model ordinance does anybody you have any other comments on that anybody else um I think to dates that that have been kicked around I think kind of bring everybody's comments into into one I mean we're all different on the dates but this kind of well I think what we're looking do this is going to be kind of two-step process too though we're looking tonight to do a resolution that deals with the upcoming season from November 1st through March 31st and then come back with an ordinance that addresses whether you want to go from uh November or October right and put that in an ordinance so we don't have to do this every year you just right modify that as the rule and the signage can then reflect it yeah what I think and and I'll ask Rick if we can reach out I don't know if you or um Lisa reaches out to Park Mobile that's getting them to have signs posted on each of their Park Mobile signs that to parking Holiday from this date to this date for this year they don't Supply signs at their expense for modifications purchas right from them we choose to we can do our own but but the app will notify you if you if you sign in and try to park it'll tell you that they're not accepting okay I'd still like to get some signs up if we could maybe not on every post but most of them um and then splash it out social media and our website that'll that'll go up assuming you adopt this resolution that'll get up tomorrow we have it planned knowing that this was kind of coming the existing signs plate maybe with a plate a plate that right over Bo parking parking fees from this this right over when seon opens back up P theard chares won't accept anything anyway each block has one or more mobile sence we just say try I like that yeah we change it next year we have to redo all the signs no it would be like we do the boardwalk where we flip the ones on the back no no if we oh yeah yeah we go to October I'm on the fence on that one yeah I think there's still debate about that October might still be a date anything you don't raise in parking meters winds up in the tax rate right comforable with November 1 yeah so I think we're leaning in that direction so I think that would be we can make these signs up and get them start to put that would put a square in the middle um Cap May meters October Seaside Park Point Pleasant in Belmar they all metet her in October where Wildwood Ocean City through March so what was what was the business and I don't know if it was VBA putting that position out or was it just certain members or attendees at the event were they what were their thoughts on it they don't want it at all no no they were um I tried to Circle back with them to get a consensus and I think they were um to be honest it didn't they they they were more concerned about the the use of the app it felt like but I think they were on board with uh extending it um I think the whole point of it and they understand is that it's to um I think they're appreciative of extending it they were the whole point of it is to drive is to allow more people um to to park in the downtowns because the other you know more easily without being the the threat of getting a ticket you know in the offseason and which also focuses on locals so I think it's a way to to assist the business districts in that way um and they they were have some complaints you said there last year from businesses yeah so that's where that's where the discussion led to um uh you know some people thought you shouldn't we shouldn't have it on Dorset Avenue but except the businesses that were there said no we you know we want to have parking enforcement on Dorset Avenue because all of the businesses have a residential component near them in some way so um I think it was I think it was clearly that I I don't think I'm I'm speaking for them to say that they were they they would appreciate a larger grace period now last year I think we excluded the municipal lot didn't we you can you still paid to use the municipal lot well offseason the municipal lot September uh to what uh the two municipal and Maron place are oh the municipal lot on on Newport that's 24 hours a day by ordinance 365 right you're talking about Newport New Haven SE seal yeah right the municipal lot last year when we did the free parking I think that one still required parking piece the lot did I think that I think that confuses it don't you yeah I would I would say we pull that out of there pull that out of there and make that for those months if it's free parking it's free parking in our business district that's in our business district I think it's confusing look I'd rather I'd like to get some revenue revenue revenue people that aren't using the business district parking probably you get some you get some residents that'll park there but but but the city is they have a deal with some church they Park but the city is basic I mean that's the whole thing about parking in this town we we have a parking issue for a 100 days of weekend not now not right now my street is practically empty and most of them were City Hall workers that's probably why we still had money in those months too right well we had the meters too people were still put money in the meters even though it was right so we still had income coming in but we also had the lot forgot about that I don't I don't think that lot produced much I it was cheaper to park on the street yeah yeah think the lot gets much in the off seat no I would include that in the holiday I would try to keep it as simple as possible and make it all the same the plan is and I think the resolution is worded that way is that you're waving parking fees from November 1st to March 3D good y I mean if you I would perit parking the residential permits are still required right that's going to open up that Municipal lot to those businesses and those residents they're going to stay in there one of things remember that we still have on veter endorsed Avenue is Street clean so technically the car has to be moved every Monday or every Wednesday depend on vcation that Municipal be G to be filled with people moving it's gonna be what used yeah us want the cars off the street I think he's saying it's not going to be able to be used because it's going to have right now they're not using it because they had to pay for it there so there's a chance that somebody park the car in there could sit in there for six months whatever the time frame you're looking to yeah months technically no there street cleaning racked up tickets right the street cleaning which then could be as what if we 39 what if he Municipal lot you have you know other businesses that you can put a minimum on the lot what if he no overnight parking I'm not as worried about it yeah no parking for more than seven days seven days right seven days right who's GNA track that no overnight someone that someone that that'll someone that complains will track it and then we'll figure that out but I again it's not a right now there's plenty of par so I don't think they'll fill that lot up I'm willing to take that gamble to keep it the same I would you know I don't know if in a car park uh well the business is there where actually was the next conversation was to reopen up permit parking with those businesses I'm Scar the farmers market unregistered Vehicles trailers no because it's still City yeah they um I I still think it makes sense to keep it and deal with those on it Case by case you know turns out to be a problem we'll revisit yeah exactly I would say keep it all open and then if it becomes a problem we address it right is that enough to move forward with that for the next item or well this one this one's just for this year so right yep all right so we'll we'll add that to the bench y that is 301 yep and do we want to discuss 302 or we're still in discussion I you could it's your choice if you'd like to talk about your topic of discussion was the Echo Park or you can do that we had that as number four so the Echo Park this will be brief um just in keeping with our master plan there's a there's a portion of our master plan that calls for an ecological Park potentially in a trative land known as Glass Beach and known as a former city dump and known as a lot of other things um so over the years I've been um advocating for that Master Plan um to Some Way start in some way or another to to move that forward um over the last few weeks um acit reached out to me uh to propose a con natural design for their students over the next few months though uh so I met with them um last week and they two of their instructors their intent is to do a topographical map and do some conceptual plans um for uh their students and then present them at the league of municipality so I think the I think it's an interesting opportunity because there are a lot of um a lot of people in that field that work through acit um that could offer a lot of uh education to the students and you never know sometimes the best designs come when you don't know what you don't know and you try something a little bit out that might not be um not might not would not not be hampered by conventions that we all learn as designers over the years so I'm curious to see how that plays out um I I I invited them to join a base camp free website that allows us to keep um the documents that I've um kind of gathered over the time that they're using so that's um that's that coincidentally the D um uh contacted us about the version issues that I think we're working through as much as we possibly can under the deadline for this year um if you have anything you want to add to that I'm not sure you want me to okay okay we can talk um it's a little bit frustration I can see that but the Green Acres management and uh and the LAN clients representative um seem to be chasing each other around emails over that and then um in that conversation I reached out to Ed to ask him what um maybe some of Ed Stinson here our engineer what some of the pathways forward for this sort of thing just so I could understand what the concepts what the path would be and maybe what the pricing would be so that with so that you know I could I could have an attain whether I'm shooting for an attainable goal or not that's so um whether you want Green Acres funding yeah right you might not want their money well so just so the impetus of this whole not the impetus but the cause of this problem with Green Acres was they tore down the ice rank that was built in the 70s with Green Acres funds we now have to replace that same beachfront space with equal value property that's what's difficult so but the only thing that that holds us up from and this is really what the email was the other day it holds us up from applying for any Green Acres funds uh I don't think we need Green Acres for this project that we're talking about at least not at this point in time work you're developing a concept plan you put out an RFP we've gotten uh something back from cers through Ed and and I think maybe you want to touch on that but but we're still working on trying to resolve that issue of the diversion uh we met with representatives from Green Acres a couple of times this year they required us to do a pre-appraisal survey of the properties that we were looking to uh com use for compensation and of the uh diverted piece and submitted to them for their team to review we did that we sent those uh surveys several months ago at this point that was a prerequisite before we could hire an appraiser to do formal appraisals for the diverted property and the compensation property and hopefully we get those and we're able to work out the numbers and make it work uh what's immediately at stake is that they're still holding $330,000 Grant from several years ago I guess it had to do with the fishing pier uh and we can't get those funds released until we settle this diversion issue right and then but again the immediate that's the immediate thing and then the other is that until we get it diverted we're not eligible to apply for funds okay they did release a big chunk of that money after we met with them they did their first year right in office that was most of the the peer house money but yeah you did get a nice chunk of money but they're holding the last piece of it okay it what that doesn't hold us up from doing these it does not no what about School issue is that the school issue or we you know that's a separate diversion issue and we're not dealing with that okay so so I so um So after talking to Ed about this he recommended he look at some of our our pool of Engineers that might have experience in this and um and Colliers which is a very large company did put together a a brief of sorts I was very impressed by Ed do you have that do you want to talk about what the possible maybe baby step would be for that I because I do feel as though there's enough to gain either federal or state or local or private funds to do some of this in the future and I think this will be a good step and and I think generally to that point you start something start with a conceptual plan maybe do some environmental um work out there and you have something to present as part of an application maybe maybe that that kind of scores a little higher in those in those various applications than others in comparison to other cities that might have applications correct just an application we want to do this so I I I did reach out to three of the um firms in our pool of Engineers send them the kind of the scope of work that the green team had put together kind of the concept um RFP uh and and as kind of the top priority uh for experience in doing this kind of work so so if you have experience share that experience um and then and break down how you would approach this Eco part and kers is the only one that responded and and they showed in their in their response they they do have experience they work with the city of hobok and um camed in there's there's a few in the response um similar not not exactly the same but along the Waterfront and natural Trails so I do feel that they they have a team that that has experience uh they have a team that has experience in uh various grant funding that could help help us or help identify for us opportunities maybe for additional Grant funds uh and they and they kind of laid out a plan it's it's like 11 tasks um and how they would approach and each task has a fee associated with it on how they would approach the design um and then and then Tim you ask that I I reach out to them and find out like can we do it in in phases rather than do all 11 rather than a word of contract for all 11 tasks then we start with task one which was a conceptual plane so I did have that conversation with cers today um and they felt they feel as though um you need the environmental look as well so task one and two in the proposal right task one is a conceptual plan task two is an environmental impact and and an environmental review and thought that that that was those two together are are very important um and then you also went one step further task four and six which is the trail and pathway plan and also the educational piece that they're important and it really depends on on how detailed you want the conceptual plan to be the environmental piece is important because you got to identify areas that you're not going to be able to um distort right and that you should protect um but if you want to start having an idea of where maybe you could lay out trails and lay out observation decks and things like that that's ask four and task six six would be the educational piece that would go along with the trail so they recommendation is if you're looking at a phase the very minimal phase they would suggest is tasks one and two which is a conceptual plan with the environmental piece but they they went further to say we we would recommend you do as phase one you would do tasks one two four and six the conceptual plan the environmental piece the trail plan with the environmental component to that right and that's I think that in in their numbers that would be about doing all four would be about 28,000 uh doing the first two would be about 20,000 just under 20,000 but that would be it um so I'm not suggesting that we make a decision on this today obviously but I just wanted to get it out there so you see that this is where the number potentially would come up to and it could be an investment for something that we then get further um get further along and I think I was very impressed with their work they had some spaces that they worked in that were much more challenging I think than or as challenging peninsulas and uh and an old Shipyard an old Shipyard things that had some environmental issues that but they you know and you know it could potentially there's a lot of stories I think that you that that piece of property also that I think would bring to that this this educational piece could bring um to the public as a you know as a as an environment that is susceptible to to flooding and and and all the environmental aspects of it I think would be a could be a huge benefit for not only our school kids but everybody in the county um it's such a large piece of property and it would protect it from from potential further development which I think it's been toost around not you know not not all of it but it a large chunk so I just wanted to put that out there for the both of you yeah and you know earlier you mentioned and you know there's some you know possible that we can get some federal funding or state funding I would still go back to the county and ask them for open space funding and I we ask them over and over again and every year they say no 10 times let's just keep asking y well I think this acit project is a great way to engage them and say I want I'd like you to come to these meetings I'd like you to come and see what the students do other they could be part of it um it's your py too and and uh and and you know invite them I agree keep keep asking I I knock on doors for a living sometimes so I'm not afraid of being said no to a couple hundred times um it happens but um good so I I I I I may bring it back up if um depending on the timeline did they give any indication of how long it would take to get one of those phases or a few the first start first phases you know I I I didn't have a long conversation with him I I had a conference today so I had about a 10-minute opportunity to call so I didn't get it into that kind of detail we're g to talk tomorrow I just um I just wanted to kind of get their thoughts on phasing it yeah so my suggestion is that we that we take that minimum step uh to do these first four four phases because it's going to give you a product that you can then go out and sell you know when when you're trying to raise money you want to be able to say this is what we want to do we want you to pay for it right so you said I'm sorry you said phase one and two was 20,000 so so their their proposal has 11 tasks yeah and they recommended at a minimum at the very minimum the the first two tasks and they total $199,500 was like 15 and five but they urged us they said if you're going to go really the four tasks that you should do and they would total about 28,000 which includes the environmental assessment the environmental assessment the trails which I think to the types of things that would appeal to people the conceptual plan would appeal to the the educational component and the people that want to use it for outdoor activities but then the trail and I think I think the whole you know the the whole thing is key on the environmental assessment I can't have Jim Rella look into possible grant funding for the design for this stuff that's that's what I would reach out for him to sure look for that yeah if you want to slow the process down we do have money for this we have we have money budgeted in in the operating fund for engineering this fits right okay uh I'm in favor four were the four tasks pardon me were the four tasks yes in fund all four yeah absolutely okay all right move on all right move on on thank you uh the last item that we had was the bid for the Bandshell at um the library structure Tom do you w to Nicole's asking me do you want a resolution for the next meeting to authorize the contract with cers for these four Tas you want more time to think about I would still like to look for some money but that's my you can get it done for free I'd rather do that but I I understand people no we've talked to Jim Rell about this and I think again I would think once we have something more concrete I'm not sure what what sources there are but we'll talk to Jim again he's been on the he's been yeah he's been helping us with the diversion issue he's long as we reached out and ask that's fine U I'm not sure if you want to talk about how this also ties into the other project the living Shoreline Grant is that's also in this same plot of land is it not correct it's on the far point of this land that's already been right that's a for National Wildlife Fishing Wildlife right yeah so I think also yeah so the fish and wildlife Grant I think it was $60,000 part is is meant to execute that so that would be part of this design and then yeah we're going to hook we're going to hit them up for more funds for this too fishing Wildlife R Cruz jao and um uh number of other groups are interested in the being a part of it so I think that'll help our broadcast our and the and and the VCC and acua are also interested so i' be okay with another with an ordinance be a resolution resolution just to enter the contract with cers and I'll I'll call uh Jim talk to him to Jim Ral uh next item is a vid for um received for the uh SP shell did you wantan to I mean we all I you want to do you want me to do it go ahead you do okay you've been talking to all of us about it yeah the uh as you know you we have bid the band Shaw project twice now once back in June uh bids came in too high you rejected the bids went back out made some modifications to the plan to reduce some of the concrete work and the ramping and stuff like that uh the new bids were received this week on the 17th uh and they're still over budget the uh so the recommendation at this point is to reject uh the bids again um the mayor and I met with our architect this morning or yesterday when was it this afternoon at a zoom meeting to talk about how we can scale it back uh and he has I think distributed uh a draft very um preliminary draft concept plan for how to cut this back basically what it comes down to is essentially making it smaller uh small a little bit smaller footprint and with a Target we're going to go back out to bid with I don't even want to put the number out there because then the biders know where it is but anyway uh he thinks we can hit the number that we need to hit hit with that new uh proposal that you received today think I sent you an email all three of you with the bullet points of what we discussed so that's the plan at this point going forward and the first step is to reject the bids and to authorize him to redo the plans and go back out to bid again yeah so don't support of that it just we can't yeah spending that those kind of dollars on a Bandshell is not it's just not fiscally responsible so yeah Tom when did you send the email because I'm having email issues uh probably around two or three o'clock oh that's why okay so the but so he he discussed taking away some of the details like the curve making the size smaller but the other one was fairly large so this the new the new footprint would be clo would be would be somewhere in the neighborhood of 16 by 24 which is still larger than the temporary stages that we put up there that we got through the summer which was very size so it's that size and it's on this side of the bulkhead not the opposite and and then it would have a different steel shape not as not taking away some of the curves as I know with with design and construction anytime you curve something it triples the cough what do you mean the side of bu uh on the on the beach on the beach side of the bulkhead we we put the temporary stage on the street yeah so this is it's not in the street no it's not in the street it's on the on the on the be on the library side on the sand yeah so I think there's some Common Sense things that'll bring it into a more realistic number probably more appropriate for the amount of use and then we can look at other things doing around it over over time that's a real that's what bill sent out is just a quick sketch sketch of of what he's thinking it's smaller I like it still very nice I would still I would still recommend we do it in the same types of uh materials materials and finishes that we're using in other parts of the city the gray white and red lettering and then there there will be things that are not included in the contract that we'll do later like landscaping and stuff like that right and we can still get this done in time hopefully he's trying to get the bids out if we do this tonight he's trying to get the bids out in the next two weeks yeah if we get the bids out and we get numbers that work then we should be able to get it done by the summer right okay and a smaller project takes less yeah yeah all right so that would be 302 right yes yes right okay now for those who have been patient to wait for the public comment portion um can I have a motion to open the workshop meeting for public comment so moved second second we call Lisa commissioner langre yes commissioner Mento yes mayor cre yes at this time the public May comment on anything we have discussed so far there'll be another public comment SE meeting to discuss anything you like if you wish to speak please come up to the microphone State your name and address for the record we ask you limit your comments to uh 3 seconds three minutes one North n just some clarification points number one on this land that you're talking about reclaiming and is that out in the wet Lanes on off of West End Avenue is that what we're talking about where the rains and everything it no the uh the land the reclaim plan or the the PO possible Park the park and well everything you were just talking about with uh you the hiring carers to do study so there's 140 acres of land that is when you go towards the school on lafette Avenue okay and you head and drive towards the bay follow that S turn there's a way that you can go straight it's called Glass Beach there used to be a pump station there and there's a beach where some folks go and pick up Beach class okay and then there's another Direction where if you prior to that you make a directly towards Atlantic City that kind of frames it in an L shape of what that land is if you go on our website and you look up the there's a there's a Drone footage of it okay I wasn't aware there used to be a an ice skting ring SK rink was where the library was oh okay that was the diversion that's a different okay so that's a different Greenfield so you're trying to swap the greenfields funds and so many words okay now I have a better understanding and as it relates to the bicycle hour extension I'm all for it because you all know I'm an avid biker but I was looking to maybe get Saturday hours you know extended you know so that you could bike ride the boardwalk to see the concerts on Saturday night so maybe you might want to reconsider to having you know concerts start at 6 usually or 5 you know it would be nice to be able to bike your you know ride your bike down the boardwalk to to do the concerts as well yeah there's a lot of Walkers there too but since we're spit B it's still and lastly and the chief just left unfortunately but as far as Atlantic City and the motorized vehicles on the boardwalk they do not enforce it because these people people go swinging by bikers and people along side of the road and you know and then they wind up in in vent here as well I don't know how how well how many citations we've issued to take care of it but it's you know I still see them on hard Boardwalk especially now that Summer's over so for for about three weeks middle of the summer acpd was up there every day with with vehicles literally parked like a blockade at Albany Avenue and up the other end by Hard Rock ocean I'll say there was a I got to be very careful um this is blending jobs um there was an agreement between the crda and acpd where those police officers were deployed up there period about three weeks they were pulled back they we are hoping to get them back up there this Atlantic City issues but it still affects us St um and it helped when that was occurring in Atlantic City that they were enforcing their bike rules it helps us um because they Atlantic City does have a lot more it's a wide Boardwalk more of the motor bikes are up there but for three weeks it was nice I'd go up every day for lunch and there was no bikes up there right and if they did see one they were on the PA right away please get your bike off the boardwalk there are my motorized or regular everything yeah they they were kicking us off yeah weeks exactly but but the the biggest issue is motorized both on hard boardwalk and Atlantic cities and secondarily they've you know I don't know where the state's at and I don't how much Trump we have with the state but there's got to be some kind of regulations these people are riding on the wrong side of the road they're running through lights they have no licenses they have no insurance kids it's not just kids there's adults that are probably have du that are out there driving bikes because they don't have a car because that's the only method of transportation and without without without any TS or registrations you're just going to have more di people driving motorized vehicles and going to hurt somebody I think that's where the state's going the sub they got to it's just terrible I spoke to Senator patin about it and not necessar just on the boardwalk just for the our surface streets so yeah that's a that's a big issue okay I would also just reminded me that um in the past we had arrows directing traffic on the boardwalk and you know that people some I'm not saying everybody will pay attention to it but you you can cast a wider net and having people go in the right direction I don't know if you have control if it's just we got hear you and I'm talking yeah and the last thing I had was about the mertile fees which you have brought up already or not yes we did so is that you're going to go a flat fee whereas before on the on the shortterm rentals it was an escalating fee depending on the sides how is that going is that going to be Revenue neutral or is that going be a revenue enhancer or are some people are going to get a break that they doing this and others are going to you can think that um nobody's going to get a break so where we had it where we had one bedroom it was cheaper now we're all going to be 750 and you feel that's so what the issue we ran into was our monitor of that um I'm trying to think of the name of the company that we hire to do it and I'm drawing a blank on it right now post compliance post compliance thank you Nicole um they couldn't differentiate that in their system so that's why we were having trouble doing that um so that's why we're just going to go to a flat fee went to the highest fee 750 so you made it painful then okay I'm fine with it then I thought you would be thank you thank you for your time and again if you have issues with the ones in your neighborhood right please call it in even if it's a a minor thing it it tags that site that one we can make sure it's licensed two it goes on the record that they've been non-compliant and if they keep doing it we can pull their mer deal so I know you guys don't want to bother the PD but they're there for that reason so we'll do it thanks Ben commissioner thank you thank you commissioner I actually just wanted to I believe it was a thousand was the highest okay it was ti so we did we didn't do the top we did 750 was 500 750 and a th000 so they went with the middle one I thought that there was a three tier most were in the middle anyway if I don't remember correctly and we'll look at it after this coming summer and see if you know if if it's not Revenue producing how many how many do you have an idea how many there were how many how many registered have 280 I think something like that in that range 280 290 we feel that uh we're not getting short sheated on that that there's other ones you know as we hear about them we heard about one Marion um that didn't have a license and once they're advised that they don't have the license they get they get so many days to do it or they're fined or they're shut down um they were advertising for Less nights than were permitted uh for their number of bedrooms and they've been advised of that so that's when a complaint worked you know we found out about one and but if you're asking about monitoring them there is that's part of the host compliance correct yes so they have an they have an investigative part of that service where they if they find they they actively look for people that are advertising in our city and make sure that they are registered and they handle the registration that's part of what they do have you have we had many has our monitoring service reduced that weren were not legal I don't have numbers on that I will say we've got limited complaints this summer very few um and that's the reason why cod I think brought it on was that that we it was the technology required that we have something that met that technology in order to enforce it so we couldn't do it just by I knew that when you were writing the ordinance you said you had a monitoring service to be able to sort of help you with it so yeah okay thanks thank you any um any comments on the zoom room Jan anybody on Zoom wish to comment any of the items that have been discussed disc so far no thank you Jim um I would like to ask for a motion to close public comment so moved second roll call Lisa commissioner langra yes commissioner Mento mayor Kel I'd like to close the portion of the workshop the workshop portion of tonight's meeting and call to order the regular session can I have a motion to approve the minutes of September 26 2024 um Regular meeting and I have a second so moved second got have a roll call L commissioner lra yes commissioner Mento yes mayor Kel yes uh we have uh no ordinance introductions tonight um can I have a motion to open for public hearing ordinance number 20242 4 I'll make that motion second I have a roll call please commissioner langram yes commissioner Mento yes mayor Kel yes any public comment on the ordinance discussed for the 750 Merchant heal license hearing none in the chambers and none uh any none on the zoom room correct Tim no nobody in Zoom with to discuss this this ordinance no and I have a motion to close public hearing so moved second roll call Lisa commission langra yes commission Mento mayor Kel yes I have motion to adopt ordinance 2024 d024 I make that motion second roll call Lisa commissioner langra yes Comm Mento yes mayor Kel yes thank you can I uh can I have a motion to adopt resolutions by consent resolutions 202 24-29 through 2024 d299 and adding 2024 D300 301 and 302 I'll make that motion second a roll call is commissioner langra yes commissioner Mento yes mayor cable yes thank you Lisa can you read bills and payroll please I have payroll and from 929 to 1012 2024 in the amount of 6346 352 cents we have bills in the amount of three million well gosh now I'm sorry sorry my goal is to one time have zero set sorry Lisa CL I anybody want to fill in the change so sens means I have no sense have a motion to pay bills and payroll so moved second second but I recuse myself from from the payment to the ACA for 351 37077 roll call Le commissioner langra yes commissioner Mento yes mayor Kel yes I see no announcements for safety reports at this meeting at this time uh commissioner reports M langra do you have any um comments um just one thing I said at our last meeting to clarify the pier is open all year long for keyh holders want to make that very clear misspoke with the last meeting what closes down at the end of the month is the bathrooms and things of that nature because of weather we can't the water out there would freeze so we have to close those down for the winter uh the peer Masters won't be out there after the end of the month um so the keyh holders are on their own after that um today we had our new Street opening in Venter ospry Place uh we had a dedication to that this afternoon um we had Talon which is the ospry mascot for for Stockton um was very cool having having toal there and Alex Marino and his team there brought brought that together so it was nice thanks Rick for putting everything together signs look great um it was nice we had Mark REO pull the the um the bags betters or something some burlap or something um pull the bag off the The One sign he's the owner and developer of um the plaza he done a great job out there it was a nice event we had representatives from some couple of the stores there Penza was there pellis was there um right at the end I saw Burger King guys coming over so it was kind of nice um really kind a joke for me to tell but I didn't have time to to go through it where Burger King was serving uh you know osy burgers and you know osy wings osy wings that's what it was um just update on some of the some of the construction projects in the city traffic signals are moving well on Venter Avenue Great uh the drainage work is all complete so the roads won't have to be shut down anymore the side streets as much uh to get those pipes across um they're working on the flat workor the concrete and the uh the pole bases is ongoing um they've been moving pretty quickly so we're we're happy about that as long as the polls come in on time we should be done for the for the springtime um when Chester brookhead good question sure the on um there's a parade on December 7th that runs through there is there planned to have that cleaned up someplace I'll work with Ed to make sure I've briefly talked to him about it good reminder we we'll sit down and and talk about that and push things aside somehow we had the same thing for when the county did their work so right we can mirror that same um same contractors right he knows the drill good um good question now so Winchester Avenue bulkhead is moving along fairly well um we ran into an issue with our border with Atlantic City um their bulkhead that was recently replaced is already having issues um they either ran into some problems under under the the grade there when they ran into material that the piling not the piling the sheeting didn't go through so it's already listing outward um we can't tie to that so Ed and myself reached out to Atlantic City uh their engineer and their legal team I think Nicole you were on some of those emails as well trying to get them to hire Walters either through us or on their own I think they're taking the tack to hire them on their own to fix that it's a lot cheaper for them to do it while Walter's Marine is on site um we have a decision to make we have some sheeting steel sheeting that we pulled out that was already in our project we pulled it out to replace it with all new stuff if they do it through us or even if they do it on their own we might include allow them to use that sheating to save them a few dollars I just want a good bulkhead um so if you guys are amenable to that Ed's gonna get me a price on what that cheating costs it's probably 30 feet of of of sheeting that we'd have to kind of donate to their project to make ours sound if we don't tie to them and we do just a return the water's going to come in so we want a solid vol head going across there it's poor construction their AC is in litigation with their contractor on it um and that's going to take time to to resolve so we just want to get it done and get it done right um put materials on their their part I think they had some issues with yeah it looks different from the water well they used um fiberglass fiberglass using steel I see oh I see when you use steel if you hit something in the ground it goes right through it right hopefully not a pipe but uh the the fiberglass will bend right and Ed thinks that's what's happening there is um is the bhead getting are we gaining sidewalk it looks like it's forward so we did move it out towards the water yeah so we will gain sidewalk and that up that end VI atantic City we've always had sidewalk for most of it yeah I used to putb on it when I kid we will be adding sidewalk to tie in to Jackson Avenue looks like a couple feet yeah well it'll be at least four that's nice so it'll be a good good size walk with there um Beach replenishment did they agree to that meeting they're going we're going to host it here yes okay so November 1st I believe it is it's next next Friday so Army Core reached out to us to host their um islandwide preon meeting um I can't be there but Tom and Ed you're gonna or at least Ed's gonna be there um just so we have a say in what's happening there um that's the major stuff um veter of pirates um I did get to attend their pep rally last Friday it was fun not you know it was mostly for the kids a lot of parents were there U they appreciated that the city's supporting them our taxi Squad finished the season undefeated they have playoffs this Saturday um that one o'clock they play for the championship so so they're they're doing good taxi and I think the um the second group did very well this season Varsity not so well they're rebuilding are they playing at field they are we're hosting the Championships um if one of you guys could stop by I will not be in town um last thing uh it was going to get tion so if you've read recently there was a plane that went down out in the upper left in Washington state um part of evans's group my son um his it was not his plane it was not his type of plane but it was pilots that he knew um it was what they call a growler it's an f8 um it's an electronic warfare plane that a pilot that Evan flies with on a daily basis it was his wife that was the pilot of the plane um two female um pilot and rear um both well decorated um military Pilots one was a marine um just it's a shame they don't know what caused the the crash yet but it's um it's a tough time for those guys right now so sorry he's he's having a rough rough week so just thoughts going out to those guys so thank you thanks sorry it's to go on a on a down end and on a downer but no it was it was a rough week for him we appreciate it thank you um that's all I have so thanks again sorry to end on a a sour note but Antonio it's you know it's pretty much business as usual usual and where Finance but um we have begun working on the budget and um we're looking at a new payroll system and new time clocks that everyone will use you have to give blood so is that movie GAA everybody watch that you had your finger in it I met with Amy today and she's pretty excited about what she saw um so far and I think she's gonna schedule another demonstration we are gonna schedule one for you yeah y demonstration you're going to give it right with that same tone You're Gonna Miss Me In negotiation so that's all I got really um thank you I just have uh one thing that I was shared with by the um Chief kill the fire department um just another example of how I think you kind of take for Grant I take for granted some of the mundane things that they do that are actually very important so they're using this cloud-based um text text um program with uh all of their um uh inventory and you think of inventory and it may be something that's not that you think it might just sound like busy work but this this program PS track is a a digital inventory that so no longer if a officer or a or his someone on the platoon um uh is keeping track of things they have to go to a file to find out if they those those um those those uh assess those M those tools I think about a ladder truck that has everything from chainsaws to jaws of life to to uh a half a dozen battery operated tools that all have to be maintained and it's not like you can afford um a batteries not to operate when you're in the middle of the night you need lights and you're on a on a on a on in a situation so um he's found that um that uh he's given the guys up until the beginning of the year to get uh versed in this program and uh he said in in a number of weeks just a few weeks they've all um become very proficient in it and feels that the the the digital inventory will keep um the record keeping and the the efficiency uh and most likely the the the upkeep of those um all all on the all in the cloud and um out of paper and also uh easier to access so and this is every every piece of um uh uh of equipment that we have it's a big a big LIF he's doing a great job wanted to share that make sure we thank him for bringing the guys out today too yeah asy yep yep he's got I will he's I always appreciate that as well wanted to bring Talon in on the but that he's not allowed he's not checked out no he's not checked out um that's all I have um if uh it's a okay I will uh ask for a motion to open the meeting to public comment so moved second roll call Lisa commissioner Lam yes commissioner Mento yes mayor Kel yes so to open the meeting to public comment now know the public to discuss any topic of interest uh if you have any topic please come to the microphone state your name and address for the record any Topic at all you're done I'm done for the night any uh any anyone in the zoom virtual room that has any comments for any Topic at all everybody's left G yeah there is nobody in Zoom oh sorry all right um can I have a motion to close public comment then so moved second roll call Lisa commissioner langram yes commissioner MTO yes mayor creel yes I believe we have executive session tonight Lisa would you please read the disclosure New Jersey open public meetings act commits the discussion of certain matters within executive session as an exception to certain provisions of said law the vendor City Board of Commissioners wishes to discuss certain matters which qualify as exceptions in executive session interaction binding upon the Board of Commissioners will be taken with an executive session and the discussion conducted in closed session will be disclosed to the public when legally permitted and when the public interest will no longer be served by keeping such matters confidential the matter to be discussed as acquisition of property for public per purpose attorney client client privilege um we were in executive session to discuss the acquisition of property and the the legal proceedings potentially with regards to that and that's all we can say at this point Thank you seeing no further business tonight I'd like to request a motion to adjourn so moved second roll call commissioner Lang Grant yes commissioner Mento yes mayor Kel yes meeting adjourn