every all the meeting to order will the clerk please read the meeting statement yes adequate notice of this meeting has been provided to the public in the Press on January 17 2024 and was posted on the bulletin board in the municipal building in accordance with the open public meetings Act njsa 10 semicolon 4-7 thank you roll call please council member bueri council member D benedetto pres council member Higgins here council member Sparta council president Ruda here stand and join with me in the pledge to the flag I pledge allegiance to the flag the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands Nation God indivisible Liberty Justice Mr Mayor do we have your comments please president yes I don't have much com comments but I just wanted to enter to the record uh at L use board class 4 uh I'm going to appoint Richard spel to a four-year okay and that's my comments thank thank you very much I'd like to open up the floor to the public comment may I have a motion moov move by Mr Higgins is there a second second second am Mr de benedetta all in favor please signify by saying I I oppos motion carries there's anyone wishing to address the council uh please approach the podium this portion of the meeting is for agenda items only and comment is list limited to three minutes per person thank you anyone wishing to address the council is there anyone online um Jesse padini Mrs paladini good evening just a couple of quick things why are you not following State Statute with the reading of the statement of compliance State Statute says that the presiding officer reads it it even says mayor if there's um a mayor uh manager type of government but this is your meeting council meeting why are you not reading the statement of compliance you might think it's a it's a simple insignificant thing but it's state statute can I know why you're not doing it I suppose Mrs paladini because as long as I've been involved with the council we have always had the clerk read that statement and I don't know if it really makes a difference um since nobody has brought it up including yourself until just recently I I don't know why we shouldn't may you know Vue well the truth of the matter is that I didn't bring it up I didn't even realize that somebody an elected official in another town brought it to my attention so I researched the statutes and in fact it does say presiding officer so the fact that you've been doing it wrong for as long as you're on the council is reason to not follow State statutes now I can only tell you why I think it is I've spoken with other people who have approached me to the contrary and they simply say does it really make a difference well it makes a difference if you want to follow State statutes but if you don't I guess it doesn't um thank you you Mrs paladine yeah I'm not done I'm I'm say is there anything else yes just um a couple of things I want to ask about on the bills list um I want to know what item 6098 is Snowshoe event what was purchased for $981 recreation program signs $153 that's number 660992 and also number 61002 exercise program for $440 for as long as I could remember volunteers did exercise programs so don't need an explanation for that last one I would like to know what program signs and what was purchased for the Snowshoe event for $981 and that's my only comment for now okay um are we able to satisfy Mrs aladin's request um sure so for the Snowshoe event we purchase um fleece jackets fleece blankets and stretch performance Gators I think it's those ones to go like here I'm sorry stretch performance Gators I don't know what that is but there was 125 of those will be yeah so more clothing for recreation is what you're telling me fleece jackets there was 125 Gators post purchase three zip jackets and two fleece blankets did they come out of the did they come out of the entrance entry uh fees um they came out of the trust account well how does that matter the point is we really need more clothing for the Recreation Department what are the signs for I can you tell me the uh check number again yes sure 6992 you know I mean it could come out of the I feel like buying myself a hat fund you know why do we keep buying so much clothing for the recre ation Department I don't understand that thousands and thousands of dollars last year now mayor Rosy in his first week of office eliminated a wasteful spending of $7,000 for a program why I've never known for the recreation department to be buying clothing for itself ever that apparently came out of Mr Bell's the mayor Bell's budget I'm sure yeah it the council has nothing to do with that I could only refer you to in this case to Mayor Rossy and I'm sure he's going to look into the into the situation so um that one was for uh Market here today signs turn right turn only um and 200 printed decals okay thank you thank you is there anything else Mrs peline okay is there anyone else um I had a hand up but I don't see it anymore just I don't see any hands up seeing no one else coming forward or nobody else on line ask for a motion to close the meeting to the public so moved moved by Mr Higgins is there a second second second by Mrs de benedetto favor signify by saying I I oppos the motion carries the review of the bills list any comment or questions on the bills list seeing them uh move on consent agenda resolution 24-44 resolution authorizing and ratifying a memorandum of understanding within National winter activity center for use of the municipal parking lot resolution 24- 45 resolution accepting the completion of Road improvements project to various streets within Vernon Township resolution 2446 a resolution appointment to the municip Vernon Township municipal Utility Authority of uh by the council and this particular uh reappointment is Mr Paul carne uh resolution 24- 47 refund for totally disabled veteran block 455 lot three miklovic resolution 24-48 cancelling taxes for total disabled veterans Movic block 455 lot three resolution 24- 49 approving active volunteer firefighter for membership in New Jersey state fireman's Association Styles resolution 24-50 refund overpayment block 631 Lot 4 belly resolution 24- 51 refund overpayment lot block 604 Lot 4 greeny resolution 24- 52 refund over payment block 492 lot 43 core logic resolution 24- 53 a resolution authorizing leasing of certain vehicles for the Department of police sourcewell national Cooperative number 060618 dfm through Enterprise Fleet Management Services quote number 768 8799 7687 991 7687 992 D3 times Oxford white resolution number 24-54 resolution authorizing leasing of certain vehicles for the Department of Public Works res sourcewell National Cooperative number 060 618 dfm Enterprise Fleet Management Services Incorporated quote number 771 8761 771 8762 771 8763 times uh three times Oxford white uh may I have a motion approve the consent agenda should anybody would wish to have any of these resolutions separated from the consent agenda please advise and I'll will so do so I have some questions on them but I don't know what the procedure is be to make the motion and we put it on the floor for questions okay so I move for that move by Mr Higgins is there a second second seconded by Mrs de benedetta are there any questions and comments on any of these yes just from understanding for for me from Dell you have a person that's totally disabled they deserve to pay no taxes they live in town let's say they were paying $6,000 a year who picks up the $6,000 the remainder of individuals who are not disabled the remainder of the citizens in the town yep and Is it proportioned by the 20% us 20% County 60% School Board yes or do we eat it all well the refund we eat that but in the future you're going to ask like where does that you know that $6,000 a year payment go to it gets spread out amongst the taxpayers so you just tou on my second question that if someone has a refund I believe the cap is about $997,000 a year earnings for somebody 65 and over and if they make less than that their taxes are frozen there's no more additional taxes on them and also some somebody says hey I challenged my tax rate and they get a refund do does all that come back on us or is it proportioned properly no the refund comes back on the township we end up paying all that then yes hardly seems fair right yeah by the way I believe the the threshold now is for this is for the freeze tax the freeze act freeze act hasn't been reduced I think 72 2,000 I think there's two different things that council member Higgins was referring to one is the age at which your taxes can no longer increase if you're at certain income levels and then also under the freeze act if you've successfully filed a real estate appeal with a municipality they can't then go back and increase your taxes for two years okay those are two different uh issues and Concepts right how about the threshold I'll check on the threshold I was told I don't know for sure thank you are there any other questions sir uh no okay Mr deetta no questions roll call vote please sure council member Dean badet yes council member Higgins yes council president rudo yes motion carries thank you um public comment limited to five minutes on any topic may I have a motion to open the floor to the public move by benedetto seconded by Mr Higgins all in favor please signify by saying I I opposed motion carries the floor is open for public comment for five minutes on any topic does anyone have any uh comments or address to address the council or the yes hi evil gree Vernon I was trying to understand what was said about the taxes when you say you have to make more uh if you make like if you have no income or if you have little income there's a freeze yes there's a if you go to the tax office they'll provide you with the background and application for the uh the freeze the basic tax freeze okay it's for people over a particular age and within a particular threshold um you should have already received uh your notification for your anchor act which was put out by the governor and this is a second uh program which freezes your taxes at a particular level provided you meet certain certain uh that has nothing to do with the senior fee though I believe it's the same thing they really same thing senior frees senior tax frees but you have to be a senior in order to qualify so that what I'm sorry I'm I'm completely sometimes I never understood what I understood is this just you get a $250 discount for a senior freeze um I'd have that have to be checked because that's what I've read so I said well it's it's not much but anything's better than nothing that's for sure um but I I think what the the freeze act does is it and I'm not sure how it works because I didn't I wasn't aware that I qualified the previous year so I never went looked at it so I think what happens is um if you you pay your taxes and if you qualify you receive the difference between what you paid and what the state says uh you're cover it up until and you get a check back from the state I think that's the way it works but it's it's so hard to follow so hard to pay the taxes too oh most definitely thank you very much quite welcome Peter N Vernon good evening I just want to recognize the really Superior work of our DPW and other responders for the work they did over the last two snowstorms um in the I wake up frequently from paint during the night and each time I heard U the roads being cleared so just want to recognize the fine work that the men and women do for us I'm sure your comments will be passed on Mr they certainly do reach up there anyone online yes um Jessica paladini Mrs paladini yes um the Vernon DPW has historically done a fabulous job I used to work in Bergen County and from pamis to the Vernon line the roads were always horrible and when you hit Vernon they were wonderful so I um ditto Peter n's comments um Mr rudo no re no need to respond to this but your statement that it comes out of the mayor's budget and you have no authority over it is 100% inaccurate the clothing that the recreation department buys comes from the recreation budget I just want to tell a moment please sure go ahead I when I said the mayor's budget it is the mayor's budget the whole budget and there are line items within that budget of the mayor's budget which is in this case the recreation portion that's what I meant if I spoke unclearly I apologize I normally try and make sure that my comments are accurate thank you you're welcome um as I said it comes from the recreation budget AB absolutely I want okay thank you I want to let you know about something that occurred uh back in June I spoke with the Department of Transportation on the signage for the scenic byway and I had been working with them on it for approximately four five years the state was prepared to put up the signage in 2018 except at the time mayor shortway went to the county and told them that he opposed the scenic byway and the director of the scenic byway program um got intimidated and backed off and she said I don't want to be in the middle of you know a political fight so I'm putting the signage on hold so that's what happened so June 20 23 I finally spoke with the um Department of Transportation and they confirmed to me that they were in the process of making the signs and that all the signage would be up by the end of the year so come August Sally ranker chairperson of the economic development committee meddled in the situation never contacted us falsified a presentation before the edac and misrepresented the whole issue to the edac and also to the legislators in Newton who then contacted the um Department of Transportation and I'm not going to get into all the nitty-gritty of it I'd be happy to tell it to you privately if you'd like but here's the bottom line what happened when Sally Rinker interfered meddled Miss represented and falsified the presentation is that a a back and forth began between the state and the county and what happened was the state finally said you know what we're only going to put the signs up on the state portion of the scenic byway the county is going to have to be responsible for putting the signs up on the county roadways I have all of this in writing and and um the bottom line is that the county can't do it now for several months because they're just really backed up so while we were previously going to have everything by the end of the year now we won't have it until approximately midyear for by the county and here's the kicker County taxpayers will now have to pay for that previously the state was paying for it all but because of Sally rinker's misrepresentation and meddling now you and I and all of the other County taxpayers will be paying to put up the scenic byway signage on the county roads so I want you to be aware of that and I also want you to know that it's now going to be postponed several months before it all happens and that is the truth of the scenic byway signage and as I said I have all of the documentation to back it up that's all I have thank you as you may recall I disagree with mayor shortway's uh exclusion of I do remember yes certain portions of that if you like if that bringing it up before the council or talking to the mayor seeing if his support and bringing it to the council's attention will in any way assist you in making uh things move more smoothly with the in your quest for signage and for completion of your project on the byways uh please consider my support with you on that and uh be glad to help in any way thank you very much you have always been supportive of the scenic byway councilman rudo and as the council president I was going to approach you sometime soon to do a presentation for the mayor and Council the long overdue one that we had postponed during covid and whatnot and um if we could do that at a meeting in March or at a meeting of your choosing we would be very happy and we uh we welcome your help and your input thank you meetings in March are quite possible the only thing I would have to check is work working with the mayor because there is certain timel likee considerations that he's going to be constrained with uh regarding the uh the budget so if there is no problem there's no conflict with any of those meetings I would be most happy to see what we can do and scheduling that type of whenever you wish we're fine okay and if that is imp possible certainly April would be great might even be better because um you're approaching early spring and I think maybe more people might be coming out then okay thank you quite welcome okay I have anyone else yes Peg Dy Mrs Dy good evening how is everybody happy New Year by the way happy Year to you too I would thank you thank you I would like two things I would like to uh speak about the first one is simple uh there was a new law that was signed in in June it's ps223 c75 which is increases the income tax for the senior freeze to 150,000 so I would suggest that it would be a good thing for all seniors to look into it it's very available on the New Jersey tax uh program so what you're what I really called in about was excuse me so what you're telling me I let's say this for the benefit of of Miss leas uh the maximum they've raised the threshold to 102,000 you said 50 150,00 15,000 yes yes the accumulated 2023 so the accumulated income for the household is 150,000 and so you under that and you qualify correct okay thank you so much that's that's what the new law says and now there's also a few other things they change but the income limit was the big thing okay now what I really uh started out calling about was that uh back in October ver received the results from the Wallace property that testing that was done by duberry and it was forwarded to Corey Stoner as the end uh the result now I have uh been informed by two sources that the information is available and my question to the council president as well as the mayor when are these results going to be released to our Community there are many of us who worry daily about the contamination that by the way I am told the report shows to our wells and our families and our life we would like to know when when are these results going to be released we have not received in a report from our engineer yet I reached out to Corey today to check with him I have not received a message back from him but we have not received any kind of report from the engineers you have received it from duberry I have it all right it has been received and it was sent to Corey Stoner back in October I'm asking the council and the mayor to please take I'm asking the councel and I haven't received it that I recall okay and uh and as far as mayor Rossi he was not mayor at that time and I don't know if anything was sent to Mr baral so uh would you be kind enough to send us a copy of what you have to make sure that we're talking about the same document hello they losta think I think she's talking about the results from Corey yeah we didn't get anything we didn't get anything right so we can we could follow up with him did we lose her I think you lost yeah she's not on the screen so we lost it all right I sent him a message today okay all right that was one of the questions all right uh if she happens to call back we can Rel my comments to her and we'll see what we can do perhaps if I want to make sure we're talking about the same documents okay thank you um I don't see any other hands up then seeing no one else wishing to come forward may I have a motion to close the floor move second moved by Mrs de benedetto second by Mrs Mr Higgins uh all in favor please signify by saying I I opposed motion carries Council comments Mrs dead I have comments actually so I didn't know if I was allowed to comment on the reassessment program but I checked and I am yes okay so uh I've been dealing with them recently on my reassessment and I've noticed some inconsistence inconsistencies so um first of all they rated my bathroom as old and when when I asked them why my kitchen was rated fair and my bathroom is rated old they said because everything in my kitchen was working but I previously been describing my laundry room to them in the very old washer and dryer in the laundry room and they said that they don't take appliances into consideration so and I said so then why in my kitchen since everything is original from when the house was built why is that fair in my bathroom as old she said well if everything is in working order I said well what would be in working order you don't take appliances into consideration so she said okay she would get back to me of course I haven't heard back yet that was the first inconsistency I found so I encourage everybody to politely pull your property card just make sure that everything on there is accurate and lined up because mine did not um I'm still waiting on resolution from that uh there was something else I had too but I'm it's slipped my mind that's it for now if it comes to you in between Mr Higgins yes I just want to verify that most of these uh ordinances and rules Come From the state such as a reassessment is that a state law that was passed down to the county that then manages it with the town how much of the responsibility do we have here in the municipality of the actual reassessment is it the methodology that we decide here or do we decide to do it yearly every five years what as far as I know Mrs Miss brigh if you have any conflicting information why should I try and do that perhaps you can uh sure you don't want to do it all right I'll pass was here um okay so as far as assessments um we're required to have everything um at 100% ratio for market value that's a state what happens yes so what happens is as you know the market goes up and down right when when you're not in an annual reassessment program which is what we're currently in so we have a full reassessment every single year um basically a full revaluation of the township every single year when you're not in that what happens is what happened to us back in 2008 2009 when we had a reval so we had a reval in 2008 2009 all the values were up shortly thereafter all the values tanked what happens with that and it could be the flip too is that you have homes that are maybe over assessed in certain areas of the township right where those people can come in and they can um what am I trying to say uh oh my gosh taxal their taxes I couldn't think of the word appeal sorry um to appeal their taxes right and now not only are they going to win because based on the fair market value they are severely over assess right we then have to issue refunds we have to pay for the tax attorneys we have to go through all that right um if if you look at the history of how much Vernon Township has spent in tax appeals um versus how many we've won it was not a good track record because of that Rebel what can happen over the years is that every single or I should say what does happen over the years every single year is that the County Tax Board looks at the ratio right and they might say Okay Vernon this year you're 95% that's totally fine once you get under I believe it's 90% they can order and mandate that you have a Ral so what happened in I believe believe it was 2017 2016 2017 the county mandated that Vernon Township have a reval because we were at such a low ratio compared to what we should have been at we had to do tax math and stuff so it took a couple of years for us us to actually have our revaluation that revaluation after we did that the township entered into a reassessment program so that we never got into that situation again where we were severely either overvalued or undervalued based on the fair market value the the difference in costs and I know Kristen has gone through this a couple of times right but the revaluation that we P we paid for was about a million dollars in 2019 right in today's numbers only a few years later we're looking at about 1.5 million there's not a lot of companies that do reassessments or reevaluations in the state of New Jersey um because of that they're all over the place right so they can kind of pick their price so we'd look at about 1.5 million right in the market right now now if we were to let's say let's say we didn't have the reassessments every year I mean based on our former reevaluation they could be hitting US every year with a mandated Ral I'm not saying they would do that I'm not the County Board of Taxation but they have the authority to do that um by doing a reassessment it brings us up close the closest we can it brings us at 100% And then changes a little bit in the following year until we do that reassessment again um what happens is that reassessment program will cost us $500,000 over year period versus one year one reval a million dollars which you might have to have done again a couple years later so it's a 10-year program and it's 20% of the residents every year so it's a fiveyear program then a f yes the reassessment program is a five-year program right and that was the decision on the town's part that was that was so the township chose to do the reassessment program um but the county can mandate that yeah so it's they demanded but it was up to us to pick out the terms I guess whether it's five years or no no no the reassessment program is a fiveyear program it's five so it's all been pushed down on uset yeah we're taxation is mandated and regulated by the board of Taxation there's no there I don't want to say there's nothing but there's a lot of things that restrict the townships you know if the township chose to not do reassessment let's say they didn't choose to do reassessment and then we had that reval in 2019 we probably would have been mandated already to do another reval because of the way the market is so what variable can we be criticized on by the taxpayers what did we do other than I'm hearing everything is being forced on us was it just the company that we chose to do it that was that something we could be having pointed fingers at or was it something else so there's there's still set standards I mean I don't I don't I don't I can't really speak not a certified tax assessor so I can't speak to when they go out there what they're looking at I have no idea about old kitchens new kitchens right um but there are set standards in the field and every company has a set not has their own set standards but it's the set standard across um the industry that are used when they go out and they assess properties I mean you're a companies that actually bid against each other to get that contract right yes I don't remember if we did a com I get an actual bid there aren't a lot of companies that do this work in the state yeah I I I'm just trying to understand it's mostly out of our hands is really what's happened here pushed down from the state to the county to us it has to be done is that an accurate statement could we say no we're not going to do it if they mandate a reval no I can't say well you're talking about a I think we have to be careful that we when we talk about the two different programs now is the 10year program that the that's required and T is very inspect very expensive because each residence must be visited and and checked against the uh property cards and so forth then there is the reassessment program which is what we're doing and right now and that takes place you know over a course of every year for five years 20% is taken as a representation in particular property you know uh neighborhood areas but the balance of the 80% are not visited but if I'm not mist Aken that 80% is evaluated against current comps if you want to take that yes that's corre so so every house can be influenced in terms of either by comp compar values or by you know eyes on situation and I think what's happened is many of the employees of these people people that come by sometimes may not handle a situation well I also think that sometimes taxpayers may say you can't come in maybe because um my husband isn't home I'm afraid of saying the wrong thing or whatever and they say you know you can't come in and I do know that they will offer to make an appointment at any time and that if you choose not to allow them to make an appointment or to come in they are able to make uh declarations on values based upon your your your uh exterior con what they what they're able to discern off of the uh looking at the house just in front of them you know number of rooms or number of Windows and what may be considered a bedroom what may not and then and if you don't let them come in they do have the option of declaring the highest possible uh uh levels my experience with the company that we we use right now has been very very uh fine I mean gentleman came up he was very polite said he wanted to come in I started chatting with him he said I said what happens if I can't you know I we weren't here he said I would just simply leave a message and so forth and so on and then I said what are you going to be looking at and he told me he says just just checking against your property card and we make a move from you know we go from there so uh and then the other but I think what people also have to look at if I'm correct me if again if I'm wrong is the difference between my assessment went up versus my taxes went up they're two different things yep yeah all right and in some cases you can have your assessment going up your taxes going down you can have your assessment going down and maybe your taxes going up or some other combination those two items but the fact remains that when the township declares how much tax it needs in order to fund its operation you can't get more than you need so and that so what happens is you either your your tax rate goes up or your tax rate goes down and that depends upon the universe meaning your total uh amount of taxable Pro property and when I was talking the other night on when uh when we reorganized the uh about the uh the uh the tax uh uh help me out um assessment I'm sorry so reassessments were you saying no for the the um it's the result of dividing the equalization ratio equal yeah right the equalization yeah the uh that's that that's based upon taking the net uh the net uh value of your last three of your the net Equalization ratio is your net value of all of your the value of your your properties in the township and dividing it by the average of the last three um valuations huh it's the are you talking about the debt yeah de your debt asset ratio yes right the last by the last three debt asset ratios and ours this year was 1.09 which was rather favorable uh for for the Township in in the county and counties weren't quite as favorite U so when you begin to start looking at what the Veron has a lot of property when you start looking at it we're I think something in the area of two billion something or other it's huh than that more than that yeah I think it was 2 billi 400 million something or the thousands it's an astounding number you're saying this this Township it's pretty good so I think answer your question the reason I asked I want the public to understand as well the difference between reevaluation reassessment how much of it is on the the town that has to do this as opposed to the state passing it down to the county we can't just sit here and say we're not doing it it's it's just right and and to be clear too um the revaluation so our reassessment program is a five-year program um the revaluation though I think historically people look oh it's a 10e thing it does not have to be 10 years if your ratio suddenly plummets because of the market which is what you would see today um they can mandate it and any time right the only thing that's really unfair to a taxpayer somebody buys a home for $200,000 that's all they can afford and then all of a sudden it's worth $300,000 and uh they're taxed as if it's worth $300,000 that's almost a capital gains tax without selling the property literally exactly what happened to me exactly what happened to me totally unfair it is arrary because the properties selling around me are selling for the price they are because you don't just sell your house you fix fix your house up to maximize the value you're going to get out of your sale I'm not doing that in my house I'm just living there I'm not fixing things I'm I mean I'm living there right so I just and to correct to sort of like um go back to the last point I was making because I sort of made it it was a word salad but my point was is pull your property card you can contact them to pull your property card and just make sure it's right just be polite when you do so please do it but the other thing that I forgot to mention SEC as these reassessments drive your value up let's say you brought a house at 300,000 after a course of a few years four years three years whatever it is your house is now worth you know $100,000 more well what does that do for me nothing except when you want to sell it which I'm not but what happens is there is a way of getting that difference back and that is when the market begins to deflate right and if it deflates then your by your values should begin to go down and your taxes should begin to decrease but in the meantime but in the meantime you're still paying the higher the higher Levy right you're in a cash crunch I have asked Kristen to possibly we can hold some kind of public Forum it's public meeting about the tax reassessments um and possibly looking to see if I can get the appraisal company in on it too so that be great anyone has any questions we can just Round Table it and maybe answer all so it's something that's in the works it's just a matter of just planning it okay thanks thank you mayor any other questions regarding that kind of arbitrary sometimes uh anyone else thank you Mr Bri appreciate any any other comments you on you on Council comments I do I have no further comments I do have um Mr stassy back on I didn't know if you wanted me to since it was a tech well Grant give her the opportunity to complete her thoughts Mr Dy thank you so much as typical in Vernon we had a little uh minor electrical interference that's the way it is here anyway my final thoughts and thank you uh council president were that I would like the council president pres and the mayor to please check into this what's taking so long to protect our residents thank you that's it have a great night thank you Mr Dy you're welcome thank you okay I've talked enough this evening and I have no further comments so I'll ask for a motion to adjourn so moved moved by Mr Higgins second am Mr de benedetto all in favor please signify by saying I hi motion carries see you uh in a few weeks fir up when we start talking about these re know