e how' you hear so fast will the clerk please read the meeting statement adate notice of this regular meeting was provided to the public in the Press on January 17 2024 and was posted at the municipal building in accordance with njsa 104-7 you please join with me and pledge the flag I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all counciler here council member de benedetto present council member Higgins here council member Sparta pres council president rudo here thank you very much I would is pleasing we have a proclamation whereas Public Work Services provided in our community are an integral part of our citizens everyday lives and whereas the support of the understanding and informed citizenry is vital to the efficient operation of Public Works systems and programs such as streets and roadways Parks sewers Recycling and public facilities whereas the health and safety and comfort of this community greatly depends on these facilities and services and whereas the quality and effectiveness of these facilities as well as their planning design and construction is vitally dependent upon the efforts and skill of Public Works officials and whereas the efficiency of the qualified and dedicated Personnel whose staff Public Works Department departments is materially influenced by The People's attitude and understanding of the importance of work they perform and now therefore I Anthony Rossy mayor of the township of Vernon do hereby proclaim the week of May 19th through May 25th 209 2024 as national public week Works week in the township of Vernon and I call upon all citizens and Civic organizations to acquaint themselves with the issues involved in providing our Public Works and to recognize the contributions which Public Works officials make every day to our health safety comfort and quality of life item for discussion I've asked for the issue of consideration of Zoom meetings and its necessity to be placed on the agenda now that's not to say that we're don't could discontinue that type of uh meeting other than the fact that it will be a uh live stream doing away with the phone calls uh I open the meeting members for the council if you have any consideration and if you think uh your feelings on this should be Sor yeah I'm in favor of Zoom meetings in favor of public participation whether they're here live or on zoom and I think if it's managed properly Limited in time and policed so that people don't take shots at each other and just state to the facts it's an effective uh method of uh joining a meeting I just I have two concerns with the with the ordinance right now and one is I don't know if it's with the ordinance or how it's advertised but right now it's advertised as a hybrid meeting and if we have issues with whether it be internet or or um power in the town not so much as a municipal building but if we have a large section of town that experience in issues with either internet or power do we have to stop our meeting or can we continue and I I have no problem with it being advertised as a meeting with the zoom live streaming as Mr Higgins said but I don't think the business of the Town should stop if there is is something that is out of our control and at what point do is it do we say that I mean is it a section of town or is it a group of 10 homes or is it it's kind of open for interpretation from a from a a legal standpoint just you know towns uh throughout New Jersey are are doing a variety of different things kind of postco so some of them continue to have fully interactive you know meetings a lot more of them um Le ones I've been exposed to seem to be going more towards hey we'll still live stream everything because that seems to be kind of here to stay most places not everywhere there's still T there's still some towns that have gone back to you have a meeting if you want to see it you better be here to see it period so there is that but I think a lot more towns are in the um the range of saying hey we'll live stream it so for people who can't make it um they can still watch but if they want to uh they want to speak at the meeting um then they have to come and they can either send their comments by email hey they can't make a meeting just like they would now they can't make a meeting you can email you can call up somebody you can um and obviously there's you know there's policy pros and cons which for all of you to to debate um legally people ask my legal advice I usually advise to go to the streaming nonin interactive method for the issue that you raised which is if you advertise it as a um as a completely hybrid meeting and there is an issue um it starts getting into a gray area of you know if a resident says well you told me it was a hybrid and let's say it's less of an issue of let's say the power outside going down right it's more of an issue where I've seen towns have technical difficulties on their end for some reason your internet just doesn't work today we all know that that happen for I'm a computer person but there's some reason why all of a sudden that stops and when that happens if you've advertised it as a hybrid meeting you may not be able to have a meeting because you've told people that they can participate virtually and now they can't there's no law it's kind of postco it's not there may be an argument that you could go for but if you do anything to do with that meeting opens itself up to being because challenged so we we had a situation it was last February I think Natalie was council president we had a zoom meeting because the weather um rather than cancel we decided to do just zoom and um I think somebody or group of people lost their internet connection and it was like all a sudden our our phone start buzzing the internet dropped out it's like well do we do we have to stop the meeting and yet it was only one dropped out so yeah I think in that instance um you know not to I don't know your PRI attorney advis so whatever he said was probably right but if came up with me I would say listen if it's if it's one res as a problem you're probably okay because it's on their end I would be more concerned about um anything on our end bad weather you try to do it you know by by Zoom but now we have a problem um that happened to us twice yeah when Pat and I got on the counc that happened to us twice we had to cancel meetings yeah so that would be you know legally I like the non interactive version could you avoid those issues at that point in time if people want to watch the meetings they can watch the meetings um and then they can send you the emails later on that night or the next day and say I can't believe you did this why did you say that um or if they know they can't make the meeting in person they have something that's that crucial they could do the same thing right they can email everybody ahead of time um but like I said towns do it differently that's the policy considerations legally the risk you run is that you do have to stop a meeting can't have one because of it the other issue I and I brought up about a month ago and it's about has to do with AI and dubbing voices and and stuff like that so right now anybody who calls in they just need to have their name on the screen and that's it so can we through our policy make it where they need to have their picture up in a live video because as council president rosuto is going to have to determine in a nanc if it is Joe Smith who was actually talking um or is it a dub voice and then that dub voice can go on and say slanderous things about anybody and we've provided a form for that to happen so is is that something that we can put in our policy that if we do continue with public comment that they must have their cameras on and if they refuse to have their cameras on that we can not not click on their thing to talk and then we are in the clear yeah I think I think you could do that um then region just like you control um you know the the for here give up the to the microphone they got to get the name and address um there's certain kind of Protocol no address anymore yeah name um but uh you could I don't see any reason why you couldn't do the same thing with virtual as long as it's properly know you kind of noticed that hey here are the rules just like here here's kind of the rules of public if you do want to comment virtually then you know you have to have your your camera on you know state your name and um you know we could you could put a disclaimer try to head off the solo uh issues that you before that says hey if you have a problem on your end essentially that's not our problem so if you do participate this way um if it's your issue with your technology that risk is on you that you are G to not be able to hear us um so I think that I think you could probably do that if we amended bylaws or I don't know what the um operative document is here or by the way AI will be on the agenda next oh yeah yeah discussion so okay since you seem to be the one that has more knowledge you know interesting question listening to something the news things oh yeah was a I think it was Senator Kennedy wanted to make not initial demanded an answer as to whether or not people had the right to know that they that a piece of legislation or any portion of legislation or any type of written document was generated by a robot yeah as to whether or not that's something that happen I don't know if I want to get to an argument because I don't know if I want to be able to say I lost to a robot do you have a comment Mar council president can can I comment certainly thank you you know I I run the meetings it's not easy um it's actually very stressful because of um situations where if I can't get on or you know we've had people with their hand up who their hand went down and then their hand went back up and then you know I didn't call on them or just technical issues which I feel are on their end because I always call if I say a hand up um right now I have people on that I just see a phone number I have someone with d that's their name d I have a JT I have iPhone 6 um so I'm just telling you that you know um Samsung smx2 200 so you know if you say you have to sign on and you have to use a camera you're going to have the same problem as I don't have a camera it's not fair you know not everybody has a camera on their compter I was going to say um and you know I don't know when when it's going to end where somebody um who is trying to get on is going to not be able to um follow any new uh policy that we might make yeah I don't think making video required is going to work I think it we would probably just have to end the public parci and also if if we have a 100 people on here with their cameras on you're the day is you know what you're going to see is a little square oh yeah you know I think it only goes to like a 12 panel doesn't it it it just it depends on I guess how many people you have on and you know it's I don't know I mean I I don't know what it's going to look like so I'm only required I I would I would only ask the people who are gonna call in not that anybody who's attending who just wants to listen that I don't think that's necessary I think it's more from if the person is actually calling in to speak I think you need to verify that it's actually them speaking not just with a a black screen with a name on that they change 50 times during the meeting well that's it too yeah yeah yeah I I think you you probably could um you know if you were going to go that route which oh again well you all know my opinion is on it but if you were gonna go the route of still having the zoom but you wanted to put more restrictions um yeah I think you would want to limit it to just um who's speaking but you do run the risk it's a good point about well hey I I you know obviously everyone has everyone but a lot of people have zoom on their phone well you get a situation what about the people who are in the car they want to call in and speak but you know are you going to tell them well you can't you know or they gonna turn their camera on and now it's pointed up at the roof of their car because you know danger camera on holding up while they're driving um or their passengers one think to this also if you go with the video I'm worry about what is in their background that may be entertaining Anthony could are there no like First Amendment implications if we require someone to turn on their video camera to speak um I don't think there's First Amendment um if you require it I haven't seen any towns do what's being talked about right now which is to have the the Zoom the interactive Zoom but then put other restri I don't know that you can't do it okay um as a general matter from a First Amendment perspective um as long as it is you know Viewpoint neutral um you know and you're trying to mimic essentially if somebody's here right if they're in like right now we don't know who all the people in the AUD well maybe you guys do I don't know who all the people in the audience are they're not required to say here's my name here's why I'm here they can just listen and sometimes folks do that right but if they come up you you see them you know we require we require their name and you can you may not be able to confirm when they say I'm Joan Smith that you you know they have actually confirm saying who they are but at least there's a there's a level of right right level that you know not gonna come up give a false name at least if they do we know what they look like you can kind of later um so I think you probably could without running a foul of any kind of First Amendment issue say you have to turn your camera on what you the what you run the risk of is not I say a First Amendment that standpoint but equal protection so equal protection is putting people into two different groups of of folks and treating them differently and I think that's where you run into the situation of one one group of people has access to a camera and it's stationary and one group doesn't and did is that some sort of dis for treatment when we're letting these people speak and not these people because of a technology basis now I'd argue no and it's a rational basis and the different legal standards so I think you'd be okay because they could still come and show up in person correct but that would be the argument would be you know not that you can't make people do it but the people who aren't able to do it are they singing them out because they're lower income and they don't have the higher technology computers and it's so you may open eles up for other issues but generally you can control the Forum so you can say you know I think you'd win on those claims but you know do you want to fight about in court I don't know if you want if you want to try it I'm happy to do it but you know think there I am I mean I've been a supporter of the zoom and the I think I've been a you know how how how did he phrase it a bitter Clinger right like isn't that what Obama said years ago um to because I like the I like the transparency um I do I am concerned with issues where we're not able to continue with Township business as Brad has brought up it and we have experience because of that on two occasions so um some type of Middle Ground where there is still transparency and if the public wishes to still see what's going on at a public meeting but isn't able to get here and having that Zoom option but perhaps not advertising it as a hybrid so that if there is a technology issue whether it's half the town has lost power but we still have it here or we don't have it here um you know we're still able to to carry on a meeting I I don't like the idea of not um being able to continue Township business um as far as you know that other the other discussion of of uh the a and um ensuring that we have um you know someone who is not I guess a bad actor you know someone could pretend to be another member of the community right like we there's um definitely some uh a possibility that could happen and um that doesn't address the loss of internet access or you know power again like you know so if if if we continue with the zoom option but require some different parameters for public comment so we can confirm that person is truly who they say they are it doesn't address losing power so I guess we just need to you know I see both sides I I still you know I I liked I like that the transparency I like people having access to our meetings not everyone's able to get out in the evening um you know with family responsibilities work children activities so I I definitely would never want to not have a streaming option I think um I guess I would just want to discuss with you know the council and see which way we want to go there's also been legal issues with people not the AI and impersonating but where they um franksters people try to act a beeting for all of a sudden kind of take over the feed and they drop in you know pornographic happened during the Vernon Coalition meeting you have that kind of that happens to you know not the impersonation issues but all of a sudden now and I get back into if you don't longer have the you've advertised as a hybrid meeting and you no longer do that you may have to shut down the meeting because that that's I mean there have been that has literally happened yeah and I don't yeah and that's happened in a lot of places it's not Comm common but it's you've heard about that kind of stuff yeah someone has a question they can chat and write out their question without being able to speak I guess we that would still no we don't allow that we had the chat and um people were on chat fighting with each other yeah yeah we had that on the Boe too we had had it and I I would actually um take a picture of it on my phone just to to show whoever because it was like they were literally fighting back and forth that that also becomes an issue with government records in terms of if people are in the chat to what extent do we have to somehow preserve is that part of a public meeting record yeah um with people chatting so my my recommendation would be if you want to do the you know the interactive version then you do the interactive version either as you have it now or with some disclaimers you know like we're talking about or the streaming is just to watch so if you want to watch you can sit at home in your kitchen while your kids are having dinner and you can have the meeting on as your television uh to participate but if you want to if you want to be able to interact you need to be in person or it's just zoom like it is now and it's let's remember where we where this prior to covid preco everybody was required not required if you wanted to address the council you need to the meeting there was no calling in a question as a matter of fact we sat here one night uh as a council for over almost three hours listening to emails I read that were called in from all over the country and couldn't tell where so we had to address that and then with C with the the covid situation uh because of health concerns people were given an option or presented with a way of having public meetings uh that were available to the public through live streaming and uh allowing them to question uh their their government uh with uh you know questions over the phone due to co now that seems to have you know subsided to the point of most of the towns townships are leaving the hybrid type meetings going back to live streaming or going staying with live streaming I think that's a very good way of being uh you meeting that compromise because people may not be able to uh come come out and go to a meeting uh and if they do want to address the council at a later date they can come to a meeting and address those concerns and for those that do have a problem uh with with Transportation remember the word clerk means somebody that acts on behalf of the of the the the council and receiving mail you know through the either traditional way snail mail or putting it into an email and having it presented there is always that potential and there's that possibility and those are normally read I know when I was on uh on the board of education we did that then and I presume they probably do this as well now so uh I think live streaming covers the concern for transparency asking the question back and forth doesn't create an issue of you know resolve that issue of transparency it simply shows an interaction but when we say transparency you're looking at the passage of legislation of questioning of the council to the administration being done in a manner that is available for the public to see live time live stream so that's my concern uh and uh I I think it also avoids uh getting into a uh a back and forth where in situations where the council really has no way of determining an outcome we have no way to affect a uh a resolution of compromise uh it's simply we would have to sit here and and say yeah or whatever or something like that you know so uh that's that's my concern so unless anybody has um anything else to say I mean we could move it forward I'll make sure we can can put it on the agenda for consideration on a uh passage yeah see how Council what's the council's feeling the the only other question I would have to build upon that would be don't we advertise all of our meetings at the start of the year I would just re I would just so you just have to read advertise it if change if we change your ordinance can I Matt can I ask you one other question if we advertise it as just a live stream and we have technology issues we could still have yes we can work out the wording but essentially what we would simply say is here's the you have your official legal notice and then there's some language that you can use say you know it'll be available live stream solely for the purpose of doing it and it's not okay that's an extra we're not legally required to to do it it's not a and so there's there's ways of of doing of doing that thank you any any any good good conversation thank you um mayor's comments mayor Russ thank you council president I just want to run through a bunch of things that I I just jotted down quickly I do apologize for being a couple minutes late here um one of the things I wanted to say is Happy Mother's Day to to thank you and also happy Mother Day moms and B I hope you guys had a great day yesterday last week we had some several great things happen in Vernon on again I'm just going to run so just just a little heads up on April 24th myself fire commissioner John K along with other members of The High Lakes fire department picked up that fire tanker in my G greed by Bor James Baki and several members of the marwa fire department who have loness their fire tenter at zero cost uh while while we wait for our new one to be delivered they even gave us a full tank of gas so thank you we were kind of betting on that one you think they gave us a so especially when that truck probably gets four miles to the gallon but um this is tanker for as long as we need it we we nearly brought this tacket to DPW to do a full inspection everything pretty checked out we did a couple of Maintenance items on the truck at a little cost but uh the feedback that I've been getting from the five punish which is they they're using this truck today has been overwhelmingly great the tank drives perfectly and they couldn't be happier so so good for those guys on April 25th was bring your child to workday thank you for organizing it children had a Blass early morning bagels with a cop visiting the downal shelter sitting evw trucks and then we threw a all jail so thank you for all that participated the kids really did out a blast and uh thanks to the police department again DPW uh for your time on April 25th we had a regr opening of he's Hut they've invested a lot of money in the interior and also they have redesigned their entire menu good so it out on April 27th we had a blue blue Memorial which was a huge sucess thank you to all thank you depart and former mayor Burell for initiating this Memorial and for joining us um also thank you to our DPW for getting that par ready on that special day where we got to honor our men and women of our owned for services I had the privilege yet to honor so many of our own employees who have served and some of them still sir again thank you again for for your service on April 28th the grand opening a black conb barber shop in h Lakes just over back of the owners she's been cutting my hair for years which I'm do again and also she does facial shavings which is something you don't see very often so guys uh you know you may want to check that out so I do wish her the best of luck May 5th we had uh our annual fifth uh 5K run which benefits local families need this year the money will benefit excuse me I may mess up the name Darius Michael theak um darus is a sixth grader at Glen Meadow who has gone through 12 M lifethreatening surgeries in his life so far so unfortunately I was not able to attend this event but if you'd like to donate please contact the p on May 8th we have finally Broken Ground excuse me on the 55 unit build 5 and over this this type of development is exactly what bur needed not only for the tax rable but for the the most the much needed sewer edus so many people would like to stay in burden after they retire without have to worry about trying to maintain their property this this is going to be a beautiful building uh and a pleasure to so far to work with these developers again I look forward to working with them in the future Mony has told me that this building should be done within 18 months they are working on their website so you can register to secure one of these units I will post that website once completed uh these developers uh will also be the ones to build out our mainstream so we p and have a down down as those those properties develop you'll uh on that on May 10th we had another grand opening for a new business called Al through Works they PR company Ser many different flavors of beer which is a great addition to Vernon they are located across the street from M theore again check them out also note that planet network is now accepting customers in High Lakes and soon buer Lakes for high spe internet via v um I know WBT is investing in on town as well but I haven't heard anything on their progress so again uh we they are investing in fiber fiber Network fiber cabling through our through our town and uh I think black of people are pretty excited about that another Hot Topic ISS I have some updates for you I said it from the beginning when I first told you that it's sold two weeks ago I've arranged a meeting with the buyer and with our attorney M Matthew J this Matthew butne um our CFO um the buyer and I uh are planning on en jooy a press release again June to discuss what the future of that building will become and also the three phases of construction we did need last week with their construction team and some of our officials here to uh just to connect do so um so after that meeting our attorney has contacted the buyer's attorney and reported back to me that the sale was legal I have also said that this transaction will take some time to complete because there are over 600 ta new properties inside that building this is not a simple one-on-one purchase the buyer has actually hired the company to help clean those titles up an expected time frame for completion is the end of July i' probably give it to August but just that was the time frame we were given so um guess that's the big question when we get so I think so hopefully the end of August so as you can see Vern is no longer sitting still we are moving forward all Qui up here in we are excited to see so many people back on our new business friendly initiative which is really our new mindset attitude willingness to work with investors on top having business can provide assistance when in need the feedback has been over this has uh this has even spot the surrounding towns last week on the radio station w W ghd 98.3 FM um and they were pretty excited to hear Vernon seems to be moving forward so um I didn't put anything out on that one it was kind of a it was a quick schedu thing so um but it was pretty cool to be on read so and finally uh we have the presentation of the budget we've been working on this for months we went line by line with each department I had and I questioned everything we we can continue to to to Deep dive into the budget to see where we can save money we we look to where we can C we look to where we can we can hold off on certain items I feel we did a great job and I'm very proud and thankful for staff who's helped us get us here today so thank you also um I also want to touch on the shared service the B so when I was running for office said a few things on my campaign Trail one of those things I said was I want to work with the board I would work with the board of B and find ways to help reduce C and extend our share services without sacrificing any services for the children after election day um it was around early December uh a meeting was set up at the request of the board B profal Rob plan along with my business administrator Tina Krauss and see out right I was pretty excited to hear that the board event has actually opened the door for us to have these discussions first time I met Russ I remember him saying to me we were uh we were walking down the hallway I remember this clear he said uh mayor L he goes we are here today because you said you were work with the board that on ways to save money we discussed many ways uh we can try and save money such as snowplowing parking lot sweeping parking lot patching P facing repairs and cleaning and maintenance so we're operating removal and assist with maintenance and repairs to the order trucks P up and so on maybe I would put grant right there too so um we discussed the use of the uh The Bard vs licens electricians and Plum so so we can use their help around town on specific products which we did just recently uh our help um you we can't cover all these services that I mentioned at at the moment but it covers many areas where we can build build back um each other for a ton of material but we will we will get there in due time we have made a lot of progress in just a few short months um you know they say actions we got on the work theate service agreement that's that's on the agenda today um has proven the actions uh that actions did happen and that the first time I believe in Burn history that we were finally AC board the Board of Ed and my Administration will keep looking for ways to help each other save money for the betterment of our tax pay if Service uh which has already been through the board of Ed's legal office as well as the Township's Legal Office M um have both and terms set forth and the council's job to to pass it that's all my comments thank you thank was a notable visit to Alias the new Brewery um I hadn't had a beer 62 years the last time I had had a SI of of beer was some was born and I found out that I really didn't care for beer maybe Bel so but I didn't want to be a bad you know a bad uh visitor to Alias and the owners there are really really nice and they schooled me in some different types of beers and I had one based on a uh Apple s and I found out also something that something that was interesting that state of New Jersey requires all beers to be 51% maltt I didn't know that why would I so I tasted it was very good very cold they have a unique cooling system that maintains a the temperature of the beer in the bats within I think a two to a three degree uh range and the valves automatically cut in and out and move the glycol around the cooling system and turn it off and turn it on when the appropriate temperatures are are really uh reached so I thought it was a great great thing it was really nice secondly the um the visit to the uh 55 plus construction site was very good that we have a very professional crew there and I'm telling you the the the one who runs that facility runs that company it's not who you think it's uh it's the it's the I don't remember her name I shouldn't have even said it Lauren Lauren that's right Lauren and she's the one that makes things happen she's also the landlord in the other facil one of the other facilities they have have and they're they are designating their daughter to be the land Lord at this facility the overseer and they're they're great it's all family and they have a great broke takes you right back to Ireland and I used to kid father Bolan about it he used to go back to practice up his bro he let went to Ireland every summer so we have a lot of things going in the township and uh these two people as the mayor mentioned these this company have taken positions on two lots in the uh in the Main Street area and it's their intention to add additional uh 55 plus facilities and anything else we might want so if you can think of something write it down on a piece of paper and we'll submit it for consideration uh Mr council president here this is a Diet Coke I am now opening okay um public comment may I have a motion to open the FL for public comment I'll make that motion motion made by Mrs Jer is there a second second seconded thank you I was looking at Irish all in favor signified by saying iOS motion carries meeting is open to the public here y thank you uh Scott Castle from Glenwood um I will say it's my favorite meetings far with all the talk about beer and everything so know if that could be an agenda item moving forward um so on the zoom meetings um I try to attend in person um but to me I would think we would still want to have as inclusive a number of methods for people to interact as we can because you know we do live in a town where people I work at a town a lot of people work out of town and sometimes it's hard to to get here on time and I think I get a lot of out of the calls that come in um you know a lot a lot of people coming up with things a lot better than I am but they have to call in for whatever reason um so I'm hoping that you know we don't have to cut that out and my question is you know and I'm no attorney and maybe it was discussed before but could we not have the policy or the ordinance that says you know we're going to have hybrid meetings to the best of our ability but if we have internet or other factors that affect that you know it it may be limited I mean that not something we could do rather than have to cancel the meeting I see that as a a recipe for disaster simply because you know somebody will say I missed the sign I didn't see it you oh I didn't realize it was not on this day I thought it was on another day my experience and perhaps counselor can offer his experience is uh either you have it one way or the other the the the issue with public meetings is that in order for what happens here to be legal to be you know to be a effective um ordinance or resolution it has the meeting has to comply with the open public meetings act and that means you have to comply with your notice requirements so sometimes it's a random meeting and there's nothing controversial and nothing nobody you say nobody cares but you know what I'm saying it's run of the- mail meeting well then maybe there's not an issue because of a of a zoom issue the concern would be hypothetically you know the the council goes and they vote they vote on a bonding for road work and then somebody comes back and says well I wanted to oppose that and I couldn't uh you know you didn't click on me quick enough I tried raising my hand and you didn't see it and you moved on now if somebody was really so inclined they could go and go to court and challenge the actions whatever actions took basically void the entire meeting and sometimes it doesn't matter it could be all right no big deal we just come back to the next meeting and we redo it and sometimes that is the answer other times it could wind up being a real problem depending on what it is so so that's legally that's the issue is that somebody comes back later and there's something that voided that causes a harm to the town because of a non-compliance issue yeah I get that and I you know I won't BL the point but I just thought that you know I think the council would know if we're having problems with Internet maybe you postpone then this big boat that you had or whatever because people couldn't you know whatever I mean that's just uh just a thought on my end I I really like that people you know are more involved now because I don't think like the number of people that I see that are online I don't think you're going to have them in in attendance um it's just some people live far away burn is a pretty big town um is the sewer considered still part of the agenda it was on the it was on the initial okay say yes I just had a couple comments on that I wanted to thank Mr Sparta and Mr Higgins I think you guys had some great uh points and some questions that looked at it more from the you know resident side of things um because I think it is a potential big burden forcing people to connect and you know this just my opinion but uh Mr zudo your comments were to me pretty surprising because they seemed a little uh I guess I would say you know chalice about people that have to do that like if they don't want to do it uh you know they should have to anyway and we don't know everyone's situation luckily this isn't affecting me right now I near that area but these are people that you're saying you know they're forced to pay this money and you know we've got the thing where oh well they can you know they can sa a hard ship case I'm sure you have to prove some pretty good points to do that and you don't know what's going on in these people's lives you know maybe they make $150,000 a year but they've got a ton of bills that they couldn't pay and now you know they're going to look at the hardship and say well you make plenty of money you have to pay this so you know those comments I really didn't think were too great honestly and then the other one where you had been saying that um sub please what's that that's what that alarm was oh okay the tax piece where uh you know the taxes are property taxes people would be happy if they only went up as much as the sewer tax as much as the MUA plus that to me doesn't make any sense I mean they're they're paying the property taxes anyway it's a totally different thing these are extra fees that are on there I think we just have to think about the people we affecting you know when we make statements like that so thanks sorry to you a moment yeah this Council Works under the basis of laws the reason why a lot of the things that the agencies do are based upon law whether or not we can uh pass an ordinance whether or not we can go to bonding whether or not do a lot of things are based on laws for you to come here and say I was very callous yes perhaps it seems that way because if you didn't have that that uh I guess callousness if you want to Contin to call it that I don't call it that I consider it in fact that the only way that's going to work is by requiring the hookups otherwise why go through the the mechanics it's not going to make any difference between whether or not it's a private company or a municipal utility story it's same thing there are ways of handling it it was it was noticed to the public by the count by the uh the chairman of the uh mua and that's the only way we're going to make this work and uh can say that I don't care is really wrong because I've lived in this town for 55 years and I've seen what happens with people who don't take an interest and make a decision and follow the decision as they would in a business you have a town center that has no water because nobody looked at it well long enough you have a Sorge area that has pipes going down the back into the uh back of the uh some of the other buildings in some Wetlands or not near the wetlands that you you know we don't have any way of being hooked up to any of the businesses on the other side ofout 94 and and these are and these were situations that were put together by qualified Engineers what they were doing I don't know all right and it we had a situation with a with a member of the public who was looking at you know being told to hook up to a particular uh area on the lateral and was told that he'd have to do a major you know reconstruction of his wall and so forth and as it turned out it just took the engineer and some and the uh a member of the another member of H the public a previous person who had been on the MUA to go over there and point out no this is exactly where we do it and so you to say that the people who are sitting on these uh committees are being coldhearted about something is not right but the only way we're going to get this Township to grow is by adding users it's as simple as that when I left this Council F five years ago or six years ago there was a study that was supposed to have been put into into effect uh by going down to to the D when came back on uh two years ago but studies still hadn't been acted upon and it's only been with the continued pressure put on the people who are making these decisions by our Administration I know that the mayor has done it and certainly uh the CFO so I could understand your concern especially you know being a a resident you know owner of a residence like myself I mean you know it's not what you want to he but this is not new I think if I were to talk to the mayor the attorney here who's also happens to be a uh mayor in Bridgewater uh that they probably have had situations like this and they have to give some answers that are very very difficult to to to you know to throw out uh which is the reason why the MUA was not brought in as a utility uh in the in the township but in Authority separate from the township because that way they didn't have to wait and they didn't have to uh uh ask for permission and the and quite honestly the township could protect itself from public uh pressure so to speak because the people didn't like something basically you have to go to the MUA because it's an authority well I mean thanks for all of that but I still feel that you know if people are if you're for if you have to force people to do something maybe maybe should look into what's being done to them because there there's a reason for that so you and I'll stand by I I do think it's I I'm not saying the whole Council says this I said your comment was callous and I feel that way still I'm not saying you're always a callous guy I'm just saying right now that was a callous comment and I sit on the MUA and I wanted to succeed not going to succeed unless we have users so let's Force everybody option forcing they're getting a value they are not getting a value you you were just I'm sorry I'm taking up n but we were just saying if I got if I got septic for $40,000 new put in three months ago and then they run it by me I should be forced to connect to that how is that a value for me there is you obviously missed part of the co conversation because the MU open-ended oh we'll take it into consideration that's right and we do and it has been done okay this is not something that it only happens once in a while it happens frequently but you have to be able to say that the the necessity to be hooked up to the the lateral must be followed through at some point and and it just can't be open-ended as you put it thank you hey one last thing I did Scott just I did notice that that um hardship process I witnessed it watched it through and they do they do pretty much they do work with people so it's something to to consider um it's not so true they they seem to work with people especially in situations so anyone else and lson Miss lson thank you here we go again um just a point in reference to this hardship process these are people that are paying taxes they shouldn't be reduced to having to beg for a forbearance on hooking up to a system that they clearly don't need if there's a benefit there they would be anxious to do it they're not if they have a system that's three months old three years old five years old if it's working it doesn't matter if it's an operational system and they have a they have an inspection done and it proves it's working we shouldn't be forcing anyone to do anything I know of a a businessman in town he had to pay for four connection fees on a brand new septic that he already had there this is an overbearing heavy-handed approach in the efforts to save the MUA I'm telling you the way to do it is to sell it we don't need to make a profit we just need to get out intact and pay for it once instead of forcing people with a $40,000 system to to hopefully you know s satisfy some need for edus this is insane okay it's not it's not the count the town's job to make money on an on on edus you were looking at this the wrong way I'm very sorry to keep disagreeing but this this is very heavy-handed thank you thank you anyone else yes Jessica paladini Mrs paladini yes hello again um I know that many of you if not most most of you don't really care about public opinion but I'm going to give my public opinion um let's see if you go into this new system are you going to allow email to be read at the meetings if a citizen sends you an email and says I'd like this to be read at the meeting are you going to allow that yeah why not [Music] no no because we don't know well this wasn't ined for you to have discussion among yourselves again I just want to be able to say what I have to say you did open it to the public right okay you know this attorney I'm sorry what is his name Mr mench Matt mench okay Mr mench I wasn't sure if you are our actual attorney or the substitute um you're s you're starting to sound a little bit like Mr zalinski and that really concerns me and um I'm going to tell you why couple of things why can't you just simply advertise that if there are technical issues with a meeting not being streamed the meeting will continue anyway why can't you just advertise that I don't see all of this hoopla about the meeting having to stop or any of that the meeting shouldn't stop why can't you just post the disclaimer that should there be technical difficulties it will not end the uh the particular meeting um you know this talk about dubbing voices and saying slanderous things I guess that's happened multiple times in the past that you're so concerned about it happening now did you forget that you have a mute button um as far as a hundred different people being pictured that's not the case um and I believe it was councilman Sparta who was correct when he said that you have like a 12 member panel and there are multiple pages and you could flip through those pages but there aren't a 100 people pictured at the same time so um I'm disappointed that the attorney says that he likes the non interactive mode you know you all talk about transparency while you're campaigning for an election but then it seems that once you get on you do anything but and once again you do have a mute button and I'm wondering how many problems you've had in the past with allowing a member of the public to speak that you now feel you have to limit and restrict transparency and eliminate the public I don't have a problem with you saying should there be technical difficulties the meeting will continue anyway and thank you Jess can you please wrap it up it's three minutes yes yes I sure will sorry and I think you ought to look into what the attorney said about legal issues and all that I don't see that being a problem if you just post that disclaimer that's it thank you thank you any yes is there anyone else I don't have any other hands up anyone else wishing to address the public or Council I have a motion to close the move second second by Mr Higgins seconded by Mr sparter all in favor signify by saying I I oos motion carries council member as received the copy of the bills list any questions or comments I have one well just notic that we have a check for our current uh labor attorney and we also have a check for our previous labor attorney is there a reason why we using past well the past attorney as well telling me the check num of finding here uh yeah 61 725 is the previous attorney um that's our prior labor labor attorney right um those were for legal services that were still done in January I know that there were some things that he was working on I can get you the detailed invoic not necessary so this is not it's not ongoing not an ongoing unless there was something that he was um continually working on I don't know if it's the last invoice I'm sorry I don't know if that was the last oh okay but all right thank [Music] you moving along may I have a motion to place the minutes for the meeting of April 22nd 2024 executive session minutes on I'm sorry they the only the regular session regular no executive just regular oh I'm sorry was me cl that out I have the regular session minutes place them on the floor who moov by Mr sparter is there a second seconded by Mr de benedetto uh any comments dels additions on that hearing none I'll call for a roll call vote council member bueri abstain council member D Beno yes council member Higgins yes council member Sparta yes council president rudo yes motion carries thank you moving to our consent agenda if you have any questions or or you like to have a particular resolution separated from the group please advise me and I'll do so resolution 24-1 141 calling for the modernization of open public records act Oprah and the Swift passage of s 2930 A- 4045 resolution 24-42 a resolution approving participation with the state of New Jersey Federal grant program administered by the New Jersey Department of Law and Public Safety Office of the Attorney General resolution 24-13 a resolution authorizing the execution of a shared service agreement between Township of Vernon and the Vernon Township School District resolution 24-1 144 proving a charitable solicitors permit burn and Township Fire Department resolution 24-1 145 a resolution of the the township of Vernon requesting that First Energy rapidly increased internal funding rapidly increase internal funding for jcpnl to quickly Rectify long delayed yet necessary modernization upgrades to its electrical distribution grid resolution 24146 resolution approving a charitable solicitors permit pochu Valley Fire Department incorporation resolution 24147 authorize the award of a Professional Services contract with Chris L I'm sorry mizic the CLM of Princeton Hydro LLC for Lake watershed management phase plan phase two in a required disclosure manner uh may I have this these items uh uh approve for uh consideration I'll make that motion motion made by Mrs bueri is there a second second seconded by Mrs de benedetto any questions or comments or forever hold your peie yeah on the Oprah yeah from what I've been reading it'll limit the uh public from requesting opah request in in some format or some form I I realize that Oprah requests are uh overdone and many cases is abused but from what I'm reading it would limit the information that the public should have and uh and it's it's public information when whenever these requests are made and it's it's it's a big it's a big subject it's a big problem right now and uh I'm against modernizing it to limit the information flow that the public is allowed to get if if that's the result of the modernization then I'm not in favor of it do you want to pull that one out bill then is it too late I would okay I'll be pull it out sorry any else okay uh do we need to have another motion to um just I'll just I'll just categorize it they have a motion to uh amend the previous resolution for resolution 24142 through resolution 24-14 may I have a I'll make that motion motion made by Mr Sparta again is there a second a second seconded by Mr Higgins all in favor I'm sorry roll callot please council member bueri yes council member D benedetto yes council member Higgins yes council member Sparta yes council president rudo yes carries okay um may I have a motion to place resolution 24-14 one on the floor cons move move by Mr spart there second seconded by Mr hiin um I will point I will point this out Mr Higgins I believe that a second May place you in the position of requiring yourself to vote so is there someone else who would like to Second this he can still vote no he can still vote no you're just moving for discussion right everyone can still vote however they like right on the merits of it um any other comments I do have a question so I I read a little bit about it bill so maybe you can help me understand a little because I was on the fence regarding this bill bill um and from what I I I thought it was more limiting but not really restricting access right it's it's not I I don't know exactly okay the definition of what's coming about from all the things I've read it it it the intent is to stop people from flooding request which I understand using up using up time energy money and and they they've overdone it but at the other hand it also from what I've seen does restrict and limit the information the public is supposed to get at the same time does it restrict the information or the timing I thought it restricted like yes yeah like it gives you more time and it could it could information is is public it has it has to be given excuse me it's just it okay I'm sorry the the issue that also has to be considered is that many of our records are required to be released to the public when requested for example dog L they used to have maybe they still do some type of identification with them and we have people coming in and asking for the lists and names for all dog licenses listed within a particular period of time right all right so people were using this to further a business requirement a mailing list I'm sorry like a mailing list like mailing list yeah we're also coming in and looking for names and address of uh marriage you know Vital Statistics again looking for use on a mailing list um there are a number of situations like this there are also and I I agree there are also situations where people are asking for uh the U the the addresses or or I'm sorry not addresses but the information comp contained in a uh uh a previous uh application for um you know other cars or you know for some type of situation either the township has to monitor for its fleet cars or uh for it for its police vehicles or or something like that and again this is something that they're doing so that they can update a um a meeting uh I'm sorry a mailing list not to mention the people who are coming in and simply asking for I want a copy of all correspondence between the mayor and this particular person and the or the mayor and this particular council person and uh you know and they they make a lot of time demands on the the clerk or the clerk's designate who has to fill these things out to the point where I remember looking at him and it was going into the multi hundreds I mean you were looking at a lot of times what AB VI is about it it can be so I I think my feeling in talking at a I was at a uh a new a new counil A New U council members class in moristown and I was talking with mayor of Marist toown and he was one of The Advocates because this is supported by the New Jersey League of municipalities and he was telling him telling me that the situation was getting deplorable it was just it almost required them to hire another employee simply to satisfy these types of situations so I I see both sides I would hope that cooler heads would Prevail when they put the uh the the ordinance together or the the law together on this the statute yeah this the state is the one going to do it yeah AB so this really is not a a vote no this istion of support put it through this support from another Township right not our law just so uh you're aware um this a version of this bill did pass both houses today oh so the governor has not signed it yet and you know the governor has um the power to conditionally veto bill so we don't know whether the governor's office will have its own markups of the bill but it did pass both the the assembly and the Senate today um I am not conversent enough to be able to give anybody a run-of the rundown of every change but there was significant changes that were introduced amendments introduced last Thursday in the Committees generally um uh I I don't want to say to to weaken the bill you know the finicial version of the bill I think was more restrictive of uh the changes were more drastic to Oprah and I think over the course of the process by which people raised the thought that maybe the bill was going too far in limiting Oprah um I think the new amendments of the bill have backed off of certain aspects of it so certain records that may have been previously excluded are now back to being reincluded um but uh but there's back and forth you know they have a standardized form now I think they they have different uh changes to some request um record and and they're successful right now under the law you have to get attorney fees going forward you can get attorney fees but the court can decide whether or not a town like if if you just miss something if it wasn't intentional right now it's almost like a strict liability if you just you know Miss it living on that yes they do yes they do so but I just want let everybody know at the end of the day there's a lot there's a lot in the bill and there's a lot even in the Amendments but it did pass both houses and it's now on to the governor to either sign veto or conditionally veto if you look on the the emails that our clerk sends us um they frequently include updates on legislative actions and you probably see that involved there anyone else thank you okay roll call council member bueri yes council member de benad yes council member Higgins no council member Sparta yes council president rudo yes motion carries thank you resolution 24148 self-examination of the 2024 budget resolution as required by Department of Community Affairs may I have a motion to put this on the Flor for consideration I'll make that motion motion made by Mr is there a second second secondly by Mrs de benetto um discussion this is basically a requirement uh we are chosen this year as a uh a Township that can do a self evaluate [Music] so may I have a roll call please yes council member D benedetto yes council member Higgins yes council member yes council president yes motion carries moving along we have the public hearing for the 2024 budget um if you like we can over here CFO can have it on can you um please yes and then do you mind making me a panelist so I can share with the public please please take a pen and pencil with you in case you want to have any questions on this could you all ready Donnie tell you that said he I it's not really why are we not oh come on was just um I could see it on oh you're good but it's like when I hit show it's not letting me do it which is weird Okay [Music] um okay well this is how we're going to do this so um just do it like this then it's fine oh so Vernon townships 2024 Municipal budget everyone can hear me right can you get micophone sure I'll get one of these I'd have to turn it on on the bottom pick the one that like there that has no button is that that yes yes uh Vernon Township's 2024 Municipal budget accounts for an operations budget that addresses services and obligations for a fourseason Municipality of over 68 square miles our Township is claimed as home by over 20,000 people and visited by tens of thousands each year for the beauty of the Appalachian Trail and active recreational activities offered year round by the township Mountain Creek great Gorge and other local businesses in town these are a summary of our 2024 current fund budget numbers so some to just focus on uh there's over $17.7 million in Municipal operations Appropriations almost four5 million in debt service and capital Appropriations $2.7 million in reserve for uncollected taxes I will review later um kind of the definition of that nearly $2.8 million in schuma Billing budget revenues of 10.7 million that does not include 1.6 million in delinquent taxes that we're anticipating and this year's amount to be raised by taxation is1 18, 888245611 m4,5 even there was a decrease in capital and debt expenses of 3.4% over last year which does reflect a reduction in cash capital and an increase use of debt obligations it is important to maintain the Township's capital and debt plan paying for certain items in cash that have useful lives over 10 years projects proposed have been reviewed and portions of the shorter term items have larger cash down payments to reduce their impact on the Township's Bond ordinance useful life longer term items like fire apparatus and large DPW equipment are put into debt obligations and just to let the council and the public know this past year the state did approve a change to fire apparatus that increase the useful life to 20 years rather than 10 years to fit more in line with real world experience decreases in revenues anticipated which we can see right here this year it's 10.7 million are really due to a decrease in the Grant Line which is expected since we had the community Project funding last year as well as other grants uh those grants there are some grants that come in throughout the year we will do amendments to the budget throughout the year when we receive those a good example of that is the clean communities grant that we get every year in the summer there was a large increase in the municipal Property Tax Relief Fund from the state last year which we do anticipate this Year we're also anticipating a decrease in the use of fund balance but we are using a one-time Revenue source for the reserve of property proceeds um which is funding that we did receive in 2022 for our property sale this funding again is a nonrecurring revenue as is the fund balance with the introduction of this year's budget the township will see a decrease of their fund balance to 15% of this year's total budget at 4,923 one7 7.37 through the used to revolving fund balance as well as this Revenue line and cuts in Appropriations the township is able to keep taxes from increasing for a third year in a row this is just a nice um pie chart that we have for the municipal budget the operations for our Municipal budget this year account for 55% of the total Municipal budget that's not the total um tax rate in your total tax bill but this is just a municipal portion debt capital and deferred charges account for the next highest at 15% followed by the reserve for uncollected taxes at 8.75% and our statutory obligations like Social Security and pension payments account for 9.25% of our budget the schuma bill does account for 9% of the budgeted costs there is an offsetting Revenue source for that though uh and this is then finished up by utilities at 2% grants and shared services which also have offsetting revenues at around 1% um if any of the council members have any questions during this too I know I'm going through lot of Appropriations numbers Revenue numbers if anyone has a question you can feel free to stop me and I'll answer in real time so the local Municipal tax rate compared to last year the assessed value is just over $3 billion we're currently at just under $3.4 billion the 2023 average assessed home was $262,600 this year it's $289,700 the 2023 Municipal tax rate was 0.612 this year it is decreased to 0.555 majority of that is obviously because of the increased in assessed value there's a 0% annual increase on the average home as mentioned before and the average Municipal Taxes are $169 which if you compare it to an average family of four cell phone bill which is just over $2,600 you're paying about $1,000 less than that average bill per year so just to review 2023 is uh budget items versus 2024 we used $2 m6500 last year from the fund balance this year the governing body is choosing to use another $1,750,000 of fund balance plus an additional $612,000 of property sale Revenue reserves to offset an increase in property taxes having fund balance is important for un unforeseen circumstances that arise like we did when covid hit in 2020 and to help offset large expenditures we do not anticipate for example large repairs and current operations for fire trucks ambulances Etc some repair is going to be upwards of $100,000 which we do not currently have in the budget with tight Appropriations lines and lack of adequate fund balance the township could be on the hook for issues should they arise this year we are still on track with paying down larger than minimum payments on our short-term debt obligations most of our debt ordinances have useful lives of around 10 years which means the township needs to remain D diligent sorry Vigilant in paying down ordinances that are obsolete once they go to permanent financing the governing body has also reduced the amounts in cash for our capital projects reducing from $1.8 million in cash Capital items last year to $1.5 million this year cash Capital expenditures and reserves reduce overall debt in the future while still addressing current and future Capital needs some of the 2024 budget highlights cash Capital items decreased by $29,500 from last year's budget there's an increase in debt service of $131,100 that's really in part to um the average uh note interest that we're seeing from year to year obviously this is not 2020 or 2021 when note interest was like 0.5% so um it is significant this year we have continued our shared services for animal control and are actively researching additional sh shared services for the future we are staying in line with our Capital plans for 202 for and moving forward on items that need to be addressed we're also still focused on better long-term Planning by putting money aside for future Capital needs um through the replenishment of capital reserves and the continuation of our Fleet program that has paid off in the past years um as well as this year for use our existing reserves to help pay for some large ticket items um a good example this year is the township uh will most hopefully be purchasing or approving um the purchase of a new street sweeper to meet all of our requirements um for the ms4 permitting in order to do that we were able to use $285,000 of our reserves for DPW to offset that cost I don't know if public is aware maybe some of the council but again I was at a meeting with the um this the the state uh senators and the uh assemblyman assembly assemblyman Fantasia and uh Gort Mike Gort yes and also uh mayor uh space I'm sorry Senator space I didn't want to demote him but he pointed out that that the this particular act which was brought forward by the state that carries a number of different requirements including the registration am I right literally registration of the the uh the actual catch Basin yes and uh the registration of those the the fact that we have to have our own Personnel going around monitoring and uh noting the condition of each one of of those catch basins uh I would say also that if any of them had to be replaced it'll be replaced with only catch Bas made uh by a specific manufacturer U so that you're going to be paying madeen made in the state's uh requirements uh and the uh I know that when I were we were on when I was on the council earlier and also on the board of education we were we're getting them from India because India does a lot with steel uh and also that the uh this requirement requires us to uh clean the streets four time three or four three times a year and those this whole change because we were elevated to a tier a I believe yes we received a grand total of $75,000 and it's going to cost us substantially more than $775,000 because of the time involved the number of people and again when I was at this meeting it required some of the people uh the townships there go out and hire new Personnel in order to fulfill the requirements on this particular program um moving on to services so these are just a list of the Departments um and some of the things that they are responsible for in order to run everyday operations of the municipality and maintain the required offices there are various departments within the town the offices process building and Zoning permits food handler licenses marriage licenses birth and death certificates opra requests Court transactions and animal licensing they also collect taxes assess values to properties in town process tax appeals process Farmland assessments run the zoning and planning board sorry excuse me land use board process invoices make deposits and handle payroll Public Safety encompasses our 247 service from the police fire and EMS Services the office of emergenc and the office of emergency management it includes contributions to our four volunteer fire departments and our volunteer Ambulance Service as well the DPW is responsible for the maintenance and upkeep of our roadways there's 34 Township roads and over 108 miles of roadway they handle uh plowing over 108 miles of roadway during each storm they handle drainage projects and maintenance brush control Recycling Center maintenance of all buildings grounds and parks recreation is responsible for all Recreation programs in the Township in conjunction with the palal they handle the farmers market as well as the community garden and extensive programming within the township Insurance also include insurance is another um service that is offered by the township it includes unemployment health insurance costs after employee contribution workers compensation liability insurance life accidental and death coverage Etc there are items that are entirely out of our control of our Municipal budget but they still have an effect on our budget directly and indirectly directly we're affected by FICA which is Social Security and Medicare and pension payments the state increased PS that's the public employees retirement system payments by 12% this year and over 6% for PF FRS that's police and fire retirement system uh by over 6% this year Debt Service is derive from our existing schedules and the urge to pay down some of our bad debt lastly the county and school tax levies which account for 78% of homeowners t total tax bill are handled and build in your total tax bill however they still affect our bottom line as the township is required to send the full build amounts regardless of our collections that's why we have something called a reserve for uncollected taxes this is is an amount that we calculate based on last year's collections which was 96.67% in 2023 can we go back to that l in the past we've had a number of situations where uh there were tax appeals and the township lost those tax appeals and and we were forced to refund the taxes to uh the company individuals or whatever uh so what you're saying is the board of education does not give us back the amount of money that we gave them when we gave them that portion for the their uh their requirement correct so 50% if it was based on this year it would be 50% 7% of the refund would be theirs but it's we're paying that back we're paying okay thank you any other questions okay in total the average run in taxpayers paying $440 per day for the municipal budget included in these costs are long-term issues such as debt management and a capital plan that continues to reduce our Reliance on debt for the future it includes plans that continue to reduce future debt burdens by permanent financing debt that has a useful life above 10 years foreclosing on any old tax titling on vacant Lots so that those properties can be sold and possibly put back on the Dax roles growing our fund balance for future emerg situations and increasing efficiency while still providing top-notch services to our residents we're looking towards the future moving Vernon forward and appropriating funds accordingly that's all I have one other question if one were to ask you in your operations structure H how much money in that structure that little piece of the pie or big piece of the pie if someone were to come in and say we're going to have to reduce uh you know our the amount of taxation by reducing that area what area would be affected that's not due to contractual obligations what dollar amount or what percentage or dollars so a dollar amount would probably be around just under five million okay um because a lot obviously we have contractual obligations with unions we have contractual obligations with actual vendors um that are in our o lines for the budget uh things like statutory um obligations Insurance like those those are dictated to us there's only so much we can do to control Insurance costs which the township has done in the past um just moving from State well we had our own plan in 2018 we moved to State health benefits when it was um economically beneficial and then we moved away from the state when they increased our our um amount last year by 21% so you know the township is doing what they can for insurance but you can only do so much um you know there are certain things that we are obligated to pay so I would I would I mean debt Capital deferred charges those are all pretty much set amounts the reserve for uncollected taxes that's a calculated amount so I'd probably say about under five million under five million which represents what about one and a one and a half tax points uh not no but you would say a percentage of that so right so the things that are not contractually obligated is about just it's like 4.7 million not contractually obligated um and then from there you would say a percentage so you like can't cut that whole amount out obviously um but yeah thank you yeah earlier today I sent you an email I guess that's this is your response to it which was uh so the email I sent was just a breakdown I requested a breakdown of capital projects yep and so on the budget it was listed as saying uh Park projects or parks and so I simply asked you know what's going to take place this year what's going to take place in the next year or two whatever is listed and uh you know could you just give a quick update as to what is going to happen on some of those capital projects um sure just me to grab so I did circulate to council uh this is more of a working document that we have um in housee just for my calculations and to send off to bond counsel um to do a bond ordinance or I draft a capital ordinance for anything it's cash items so uh some of the things we have planned the road Improvement program obviously that includes Main Road secondary roads that's about $1.3 million um that includes a cash portion everything that's put into a bond ordinance for clarification we're required to have at least a 5% down payment on those items um some of these items I choose to put more than 5% and the reason why we do that is to decrease the useful life of the ordinance so something like roads has a 10-e useful life but something like the lighting improvements at Veterans Memorial Park could have a 20-year useful life so you want the higher amount because if you're going to permanently Finance in the future you're financing something that's still useful in it within its useful life um so that's some of our some of our items there road the road Improvement program um we have trucks plows Sanders uh the street sweeper I mentioned before um there's some items for the police Animal Control EMS we have a new ambulance this the stretcher that goes with that ambulance um Lucas devices Fire Department we have another um mini pumper that's to keep them on schedule for replacement of their apparatus uh their Cascade system replacement that's for um filling their bottles so that they're fully filled um SCBA packs equipment their turnout gear for for departments to keep them on track again so that we're never in a situation we have to replace all of them at the same time uh for Parks we have lightings at Veterans Memorial Park um some fencing items some fencing replacement at the parks um uh and archival of the construction documents um some of these items like I said are paid for in cash that would be done through a capital ordinance the majority of them are paid through a bond which will be done through a bond ordinance um those Bond ordinances are detailed they give you an average useful life for the entire ordinance and that has to be obviously approved by Council so these are some of the projects that the mayor um has worked through and determined you know is how we're going to move forward good I like the way you're explaining things it's it's clear English it's uh you know like having a conversation and I think that a lot of people including me are benefiting from it oh I wanted to to just touch base too on the capital budget so people understand capital budget is more of um what we're anticipating right it's it's just a plan so if our bond ordinance does not necessarily meet that it the bond ordinance is written so that it amends the capital budget automatically it's the same thing with a capital ordinance if something changes or maybe a price changes and the price is less it doesn't mean like well you have to spend $300,000 because that's what was in the capital budget it gets amended through that process okay what percentage of uh our budget is Personnel Personnel salaries benefits and all the rest I would have to do that calculation I do not know that offand could you guess I would not feel comfortable guessing on that number okay because it from everything you've been speaking about it's totally different than the Board of Ed budget because I have the experience and it's a whole different setup you're you're talking about equipment Parks these are not people things and a good percentage of the budget is spent on those things rather than you talking about the yearly cost for all the salaries the yearly cost for all the salaries is that what you're asking oh what percentage of the budget that's all because he said salaries and benefits and all that I would have to do that calculation personel cost yeah I have to do that calculation all right other question okay okay it thank you oh okay watch budet if it's the projector or the screen honestly you get a better yeah you do Ang Mount that up there I'll gonna be a SPL I'm wondering Council yes I'd like to make a motion to amend the budget uh sir you want to wait for Bill I didn't was there oh okay sorry I didn't realize Bill wasn't there I can't know you're like looking well no not that you're that tall or anything Jessica it's just you know you don't you're looking through like people there he is you I think you can do oh he didn't do that yet yeah yeah do that first okay do the public hearing first sorry yes um I was going to suggest that as well as adopt as opening you know make motion the adoption of it and then Matt said to do the um Amendment first the amendment to the public yeah so so I think I think the public hearing on the yes yes so first we just do that and then we can deal with any after right so I'll make a motion open the floor make okay floor is open to the I'm sorry motion has been made to open the floor on the adoption of the 2024 Municipal budget I'll second second by Mr Sparta so it was motion by Mrs bueri uh may I have a in favor signify by saying I hi hi hi thank you hi um certainly yes is open to the public good evening council president council members Steve D um my first point would be to projects4 and half million listed there there's no addendum to show what they are now did tonight give a little bit of a thumbnail sketch of what they were last year it was mentioned in the meeting and I know it's been since denied that money goes into one big bucket and it's just put where it's needed it was said I think there should be I think that the council members should demand that there be breakdown of what $200,000 for Park improvements $290,000 for municipal improvements what are these improvements and how do you judge if they're following what they proposed if it's just a raw number I I really think the council needs to demand that there be an addendum to break out what these numbers are there's um guess I should have shown up here a little better prepared but um 1325 million for Road improvements 1.24 eight million for Public Works 200,000 for Park and improvements $290,000 for improvements to Township property with no real attachment to show what these improvements are so I would hope that the council would demand that they get some kind of a breakdown of what these monies are anticipated anticipated to be spent on so you have something to track to see if that is what it was spent on that's the one point my second Point has to do with uh the compensation line I don't know if council members are asking for an increase in their stien or if not but it's in there there's also an increase in the stien for the mayor I know there was talk in the past recently about salary I don't think the mayor compensation to be referred to as salary it's a stien he's not an employee elected official just like the council members are elected officials there was a ruling pass in the federal government just in the last 90 days that people that make less than $448,000 are entitled to overtime I would hate to see our mayor show up here in six months with a spreadsheet saying you guys owe me a bunch of overtime so I really think we need to get away from the terminology of salary and need to be talking about stifen when it comes to the mayor when it comes to the councel and my last point is on the um what is now being built as a grant to to the board of ed um last year our former mayor decided to um get the council to give $33,000 to the school there was push back it didn't happen new mayor comes in he U doubles up on it once got like five seconds him $50,000 um he's in sensed now last night put out a statement saying that it would be a grant to study that the buses are needed seems like a lot of money to be studying that I think it's the board of Ed's responsibility not the Township's responsibility thank you and this was discussed last year multi time multitude of times at the board of Eddie that a lot of people using the buses and that um even the athletic director said that he has more people turning out for sports now than he ever did right thank you Mr D so I I hope that you guys will take a hard look at this because don't think we should be giving money to the board of thank you very much thank you anyone else we have anybody else online yes I have Jesse paladini Mrs paladini hi um I don't really have anything to say about the budget but I I think I think you should have made your amendments before you open the meeting to the public for a public hearing because then how do we we don't get an opportunity to voice our opinions on any amendments yes you will we will okay great if there's a change to it there will be an opportunity because we have to read vertise and then you will have another public hearing okay um I just want to say one last thing I know that some people are not going to like what I have to say but even though I'm a huge proponent for bringing back the after school activity buses I don't think it's something that should come from the municipal budget and the other thing is that the Board of Ed has a um a question on the ballot and that question includes $50,000 for after school activity buses so are we being taxed twice for that that's my only um comment thank you thank you there anyone else yes I have John skull John skull John skull John good evening everybody I'd like to just State my name is John skull I'm 6 year old vet and I just want to be brief i' just like to say that from top to bottom the council everything that's being thrown Ates you you guys are doing a hell of a job a hell of a job um but timing is everything you know and if I had to say one thing you know my dad always said timing is everything and you know these uh to have the council meeting on a night like tonight with the Rangers winning with one more period to go I'm trying to are they go back forth and I'm just trying to get soak at all in but I just like to say that you guys are doing a hell of a job thank you thank you very much um Peg Dy M Dy how are you I'm well thank you how are you uh I would like to say that that I agree with uh Steve on everything I think he hit the nail on on the head for all of those items and uh I think the council needs to address them all the only other thing I would like to add is that having the open meeting for the budget announcement and the vote on the budget on the same night is a ridiculous decision whoever made it they should be two weeks apart so people who haven't had a chance to listen to the meeting could at least view it and then present their opinions but to do that on the same night is very unfair to all the residents that's it thank you have a good night anyone else I don't have any other hands out anyone else from the audience not I'll ask for a motion to close Bo of the public move moved by Mr spart second seconded by Mr benedetto all in favor signify by saying I I I oppos motion carries okay um all right so now I would like to make a motion to make an amendment to the 2024 Municipal budget certainly okay I would like to second on we need a second yeah second that but you can tell people want me to what amend is first before before you second it BR okay um so would be line on a section six line Y 012011 0-01 mayor and Council regular salaries hold on uh want to give that under Section six 51-2 [Music] 110-01 mayor and Council regular salaries I the proposed amount is 67,500 I would like to amend that to have it be the same as the 2023 budget which is 45,000 I have another amendment hold on just writing this down wanted to time that no no they can they can offer it as a a a hole and a and then there's only support for you know one or however many there are they can break it okay okay the second Z amendment is under Section 20 right and there's no the line for the group of Grants is y 01 41706 D20 Transportation aid grant no I'm sorry that's not it no you have to use um the budget sheet I'm using this budget can't use that um okay it's this I'm using the wrong one sorry this is the one I've been looking at no that that's just worksheet this is the um introduced budget right here oh okay I didn't bring that one with me sorry so what line is that one on Danelle or Paige sheet 28 sheet 28 okay thanks so sheet 28 and that is n transfer to board of education for use of local schools right uh FCA 29-45 5,000 um I would amend that that is just completely stricken okay can you give me the num slowly please sure 29-45 okay $50,000 right to be completely removed from the budget um I do have a couple comments about the two line items we have talked about changes to the stien but we have not agreed on as a council to those changes um that would have to be done by ordinance if that ordinance does occur we could always revisit that um in a future budget for 2 but at this time we have not enacted an ordinance we're already in May I don't see an ordinance coming anytime soon no you know we talked about um Miss D benedetto and Mr Higgins doing it like an exploratory committee um you know once we have those findings we can definitely I wouldn't I I wouldn't say it's completely off the table I think just this line item in this budget is really [Music] um presumptive you know it's it's it's putting the cart before the horse so we're not at that point yet um regarding the should we have a second on this I'm just explaining My reasonings is that a I think that it doesn't really at this point in time I mean there's you know motion you can have a second on it then discuss it if there's uh I mean if there's no second I guess EAS way to do it is just to a second okay do it that way I'm gonna I'll second Natalie's okay thanks BR all right um this my my second line item that I would like completely removed um I have a lot of experience with activity buses um from the board side as a parent of three students that have gone through the school district and taken those high school buses um I I was on the board when we actually did a survey of kids taking the bus bless you bless um I believe Mr Sparta was on that that too and there was not a lot of use for the the bus at that time time um I I I believe if it was a priority the school board would put it in their budget I don't believe that the council should be stepping over the line and insinuating itself into the school board's budget I don't think the school board should do that to our budget we need to respect um our elected officials as as the ones that have been tasked with the responsibility of the education the safety of the students that they've been entrusted with and I think um providing the funds for that bus is is crossing over the line and I don't support it thank you so may I have a motion to place this on the floor mve mve by Mr spart is there a second second seconded by Mr Higgins any other comments against it um regarding discussion on this yeah I I have a couple um like Natalie we we were both on the board of ed about the same time so we actually eliminated the it was the 3:30 or four four o'clock bus and at that time we were actually considering eliminating the the 530 bus at that time too but we figured we're eliminating one let's see what happens with the ridership we actually contacted the uh contractors to see if we could actually go down to Vans and uh we could do that but it was going to cost the same amount of money because we're at that point for the late buses you're paying for the the driver and and the the fuel and that's it so um you know back in 2012 and 13 uh we actually passed a pay to play for after school activities where if you were participating in that you would pay a fee if uh you were on the free and reduced lunch list uh that fee would be um zero paved or or amended uh if they went to a pay to play they could raise just about enough money to carry the buses if they really wanted to and lastly but certainly not least the board has to uh approve their budget based on a cap and uh I think if uh we were to um give them some money we are possibly circumventing or usurping that cap um and they have to stay within that cap so we already give them money and um it it's still tax money whether it comes from us or it goes directly to the board of education and I think we have to be cognizant of that and I think that would be uh towing a line that I am not willing to tow uh where they could be uh circumventing the cap it may not be circumventing it this year but next year might be a different story and the year after that might be a different story so um I support both of Natalie's uh concerns and we'll be voting in the affirmative for both of them Mr C president can from a legal process standpoint just want to make sure everyone's on the on the same page real quick so first of all just really a Ticky Tac item but I believe the initial motion was made by uh dider perer excuse me and I think Mr Sparta second it we didn't need to have a second you know motion so I think that's the original motion that's what should be there um from a process standpoint um if you amend you ultimately vote to to introduce a budget amendment it would have to be advertised it's almost like a budget process it's a twep process so you'd vote to uh for an amendment that Amendment would have to be processed by your CFO in terms of you know all the all the right numbers and legal Le uh or leg all the CFO language uh it had to be published and then at your next meeting there would be a public hearing just like you did tonight a public hearing on the amendment you would then vote on the amendment and then depending on the result of that vote you would then vote on either the budget as amended or if the amendment was rejected then you would vote on the original budget okay so it's a two-step process um just a few uh very quick things um uh you would have to I think just to clarify so I understand it when you reduce the salaries you are removing that money from the budget overall correct they're reducing just as opposed to moving it to a different line yes removing it completely yes and just going back to the 45,000 so removing that as opposed to shifting it to a different line item no not shifting it yeah just the so that needs to be clear in your motion need be clear CFO um the the um other items and I do think you want to make sure that your um your CFO uh comments on it just to make sure that you have all the information from the CFO on the Amendments the other thing uh to uh just so every understands the reason you have to amend it or to republish it is because it's a certain percentage of line items yeah uh so you can do certain things without having to republish it this one because you're either eliminating one line item or you're reducing it by more than 10% of the other you'd have to republish those gotta um the just again to make sure I think everyone does understand this but just to make sure every understands it that the money that's in the budget now under any line item including you know some of the public raised questions about um issues with like the U the park improvements things like that um all those items do need to come for the council for improvement for approval um so on these items um or any items in there you would need to have approval from the council if it were to stay in if it's removed obviously it's out and then the corresponding tax would or you know levenue Revenue would adjust and the last thing is you do need to make sure you see a folk in comment on this if you don't pass it budget tonight uh I do believe you have to um you may depending on how long your continuing resolution goes right now you're funding government through a temporary budget so we do need to hear from your CFO with regard to what that would mean in terms of being able to continue funding government um certain items by law they can fund kind of without like you can go like a maybe one pay period I think there's a rules on how far you can go it's not much um but there's certain things that you can do without a budget otherwise you're going to need to pass either either tonight or come back at a special meeting or how quickly it is to make sure you could fund government while the amendment that's legally that's all the comments I have essentially this is what I had discussed with all of you previously the next this uh would be brought up at our next meeting I'm sorry did you want to say something I I did but that wasn't I didn't say anything just now um our next meeting is going to be would normally be Memorial day since it's Memorial day it will be that Thursday Thursday we will be presenting everything at that time yeah is there is there sufficient time to publish for that Thursday meeting yes there is okay all right by this Wednesday I correct Marcy so this Wednesday so at this you have anything else well I you know you had you what you had just communicated Now Matt was that just to make sure we clarify with denell um exactly which I think she understands what this amendment that I'm proposing that the township attorney mentioned um I will need to go through tomorrow to determine how much we have um for Appropriations and temporary budget to get us through until the 30th because we do have two payrolls coming up we have obligations obviously for insurance I know we have another payment due for our liability insurance and workers c um so I do need to just make sure that uh and I will report back to the mayor where we stand with that tomorrow okay um if you're going to the amendment as proposed right now if do need to address the issue of the revenue side so it's not just an appropriation side side um if I could I would like to make the recommendation that you just reduce for property the sale of property assets by that same amount so that is it even on both sides that's 612,000 yes okay that would be my recommend I think that makes sense yeah no that makes sense that's fine so then it would be reduced by 50,000 for the school bus and it would be reduced by 225 for the salaries corre so that Amendment um um would need to include all of that okay so that when it's WR because I know that's what needs to be written up for if you're going to do the resolution from the floor that's how it has to be written up to include both sides so that everything is amended properly so the DCA accepts it as an amendment so that when it's published you can actually have your hearing at the next meeting gotta okay all right that makes sense okay do you have a uh we all set need a need a motion already been moved in seconded second I just wanted to also Express the fact that I agree with Natalie and Brad on everything that you've mentioned so far I do want to say however that in the very near future the mayor with the job that he's been doing this next year if we have this discussion I will in fact say the stien should be increased based on everything and the performance and time and it's not time no one's paying any for time paying for performance and he's performing and I'm seeing some very good things and I know he disappointed in the uh the busing situation but that's not our problem it's really not I'd like the kids to have the bus but somebody else's problem and uh you we'll continue to research out the proper I guess renumeration for stiens for other towns and just taking time to do it but uh I'm on board I appreciate that feedback just to make sure it is clear because there was a motion a second with regard to the reductions in lines now we just talked about where it should come from on the revenue side so I think uh just to make sure we're perfectly clear uh Asel mentioned we should I guess make a motion to amend the motion to include the just make sure it's on there so if you want to amend your motion you can amend your motion I'm making a motion to amend my motion to amend the budget yes um to include an a decrease in um using funds from the sale of the property is that it okay by um 72 725 725 right right I'll second that seconded by motion made by Mr y so more do you have this down so we can read it into the I I got it so so go ahead Matt so so right now we have you know the motion as amended is as everyone's talked about is to reduce those two line items you on the on the appropriation side and to take it from the revenue side for the sale of the property so that's what the motion as amended is and so there should be a uh if you're ready to vote then there be a roll call vote on that and then if assuming it passes then um you know we'll we'll work to make sure it gets um appropriately noticed and sent to DCA and prepared for your for your next meeting um and I guess then we'll also hear from the CFO with regard to if there's any some the temporary Appropriations as now and if there's an issue there then obviously she'll let the mayor know and we'll we'll deal with that okay roll call please yes council member Bushi yes council member benedetto yes council member Higgins yes council member Sparta yes council president rudo yes motion carries I don't know if it's checking required to have a motion but I think there should be a motion to carry uh final action on the budget um I don't know it's actually required but okay just to make sure we overly motioned everything I think there should be a motion to carry final action on the budget until the May 30th meeting May I have a motion I'll make that motion to move continuation of the approval process on a budget to the May 30th meeting I'll make that motion motion made by Mrs berer is there a second second second by Mr Higgins uh give a roll call vote just please council member yes council member D benedetto yes yes yes president rzo yes carries thank you comments sorry that's may have a motion to open the floor to the public I'll make that motion motion made by Mr is there a second second seconded by Mr de benedetta all in favor signify by saying I I I motion carries floor is open to the public for comment on any item to be addressed anyone here wishing to address the councel we have anybody on mine yes um Jesse paladini Mrs paladini yes I'm going to speak on an issue that you brought up at your last council meeting because since then I have been subjected to a tremendous amount of ridicule by individuals who claim that you made that comment specifically for me so I'm going to read a statement and it is as follows the Vern Township council president was in Era on April 22nd and also violated the town's own code for public comment when he announced we are going to change how we handle this portion of the meeting the council president asked that the public restrict their comments to matters concerning the township or its welfare there is no law that gives the council the authority to make that change the coun Council attempted to do that in 2011 and the ACLU came to the council and demanded the council give an apology to the citizens of the Town apparently the council did not learn that lesson from the ACLU and perhaps it is time for the ACLU to revisit the council the ACLU sites quote the public body cannot censor your speech during a public comment P portion because it does not agree with you or like what you are saying the public body also cannot prohibit comments based on subject matter so long as the comments relate to any issue that a member of the public feels may be of concern council code specifies there will be a second period of public comment at the end of each council meeting speakers will be limited to 5 minutes where the public May speak on any topic which incidentally council president rudo just reiterated before I began to speak State Statute njsa 10 colon 4-2 States the public May comment on any governmental issue that a member of the public Fields may be of concern to residents of the municipality while some council members have stated that Mr ruto's comments were not directed at anyone specifically at the prior meeting I had referred to to false statements a member of the public made to the council about a Township matter immediately following the meeting those same false statements along with ridiculing a member of the public who spoke at your same council meeting and I stated that I believed it to be a hate Group which the honer of the group took offense to my calling it a hate group I just want to finalize by saying my comment was about a Township matter it was about something that took place at a council meeting and it is ridiculous to even suggest that the council could call for a point of order to stifle such public comment in the future should I deem it necessary to make such statements I will make them again thank you for your time you're quite welcome please understand that I labored quite a while on how to term this statement that no time did I ask that anybody or mention that anybody was required obligated could not would not or cannot mention anything about a particular comment I simply ask voluntary cooperation by using the words public strict its comments to matters concerning the township or its welfare or issues that can be resolved by the administration or the council if somebody chooses not to cooperate I can't do anything about it far as I know I don't have a police you know Police Department that goes around and enforcing this type of thing it was simply a question of voluntary cooperation person chooses not to follow that that's okay if they choose to do so so be it so that's my answer to that anything else anyone else no I don't have any other hands up may I have a motion to close the floor to the public I'll make that motion motion made by Mr bueri is there a second second second by Mrs de benedetto all in favor signify by saying I I motion carries um Council comments Mr Higgins yes I once again with the with the budget Co resulted in municipality school districts state government uh increasing their surpluses tremendously and a lot of it came from the monies from the federal government others came from simply not having to spend what was already budgeted for because buildings were closed and people were home and uh this town this this Council three years in a row no tax increase and it was wise use of the Surplus money so I'm comfortable with having 15% in the budget which is Surplus for emergencies not comfortable going below 10% but we're at 15% and next year no promises of a 0% tax increase but uh I think it was well done and there's been some uh constraints on the spending so uh I'm happy to be part of that thank you by the way I concur better nothing spart uh I just have one think it's safe to say on May 13th I can ask this is it possible to have a review now of the snow removal with the contractors as opposed to the benefit of the Town whether it worked out better for us or if the reimbursement to the communi worked out better we can meet with the snow removal contractors I don't think you need to meet with them I think it's a financial question you knew what you reimburse the communities before you we already had the snowstorms here you know how much time was spent but where do we relate financially to using the contractors as opposed to reimbursing the communities has nothing to do with the contractors it's totally a financial question it does have to do though with the type of um year toe storms so there's that you used the storms this year and you said if we were to reimburse the communities this is what we would have spent reimbursing communities as opposed to this is is what we spent on the contractors very easy to do D very easy to do I can draft those numbers if that's what you're that's what I'm asking for thank you Mr guer um no I'm good no I have no I'll ask for a motion to close the meeting to the public I'm sorry to close the public move me moved by Mr spart is there a second second second all in favor signified by saying I I motion car hey good night everyone had many scribbl on your paper my gosh were you oh --------- new there's there's is newer yeah they just redid it council member bueri here council member D Ben nto council member Higgins here council member Sparta here council president rudo here for the MUA Paul Carney Dave mcdermit pres rudo here Mark Bower okay absent tonight we have Mark Bower Edie young and Kristen weaton you want to call Mark Bower again please I saw him on on yeah yeah he's not on not on no sometimes he joins after a few moments yeah he was on and then he's not but if he comes back I'll let you know thank you so Corney turn this over to you over to me um you have us do you have an agenda um I don't we have here I have the yeah I have it yeah good he is B yes all the order Mark bow at 5:32 adequate notice of the special joint meeting was provided to the public and the Press on April 26 2024 posted at the municipal building in accordance with the open public meetings act the purpose of the special trint meeting is to discuss sewer expansion plans all is s the flag un States for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all we already did a roller call I think we're good with that right y um presentation we'll hand this over to uh dell yeah um I just want to confirm that Council and um the MUA would like the actual presentation cast on zo I have no problem with it reason then you can make me a yeah we could change her over to a panelist and then um and then you can share your screen one second I just need Mark Valerie is on now yes I got him Mark is on and I believe Jessica D benedetto was also on oh good yeah I'm here just give me a second I need to pull up the link welcome to zoom enter your meeting ID followed by pound usually should just take you right to it why it's doing this well that's not me did you go to the um okay I should be in participants can you yes y participant ID followed by pound otherwise just press pound to continue promote p and then now she can share okay good you have entered the meeting as a panelist attendees can now hear you speak this meeting is being recorded I don't know why it's saying I don't know why it's doing that weird okay can you allow me to share or I think I already have abs I think I didol great good thank you make sure this works maybe I should actually connect it to the screen can everyone see that it's also behind that's easier larger um great great okay so we're here tonight um it is a requirement for the Vernon Township Municipal Utilities Authority to give an annual report to the ver Township Council that's part of um The Creation in the ordinance of the MUA um and part of our duties for that so that's what we're here tonight to do as well as just more discussion in detail about the sewer expansion through the community Project funding um so if we just go to page two members members here we're going to go over three things like I said the annual review of 20123 operations the review of the 2023 fiscal year Community Project funding and the sewer expand expansion so just a year in review for the btmua um we were able to stabilize rates in 2023 so they were the same as 2022 rates um that edu is equivalent to $1,443 30 um that was stabilized through the use of rate stabilization funds which are received from schuma as well as the mua's net position um which is increased over the past few years um we also began construction on Pump Station 2 that has been a project in the making for a number of decades um so that was really great we are almost just to update you on that we are at the very very end of being done with Pump Station 2 we're stillwaiting for issues with um the generator uh since covid it's been pretty much impossible to get generators and to get them on time according to project schedule so that's the only thing that's really holding us up um we did continue work on the sewer service area expansion which the MUA been working on for the past 10 years the good news again that just happened this year which will'll report next year obviously um is that we just got a I don't want to say approval but very very preliminary okay on the map that we have right now with the D um now we just go through the process of applying to the county and doing a Wastewater management plan written Amendment so I've been working with the engineers on that um go ahead actually you know what if if there's any questions during this because there might be some things that come up feel free to ask okay before you go to the next slide I just have a question about the slide um and then also during 2023 we were approved and the recipient um for the fiscal year 23 Community Project funding through the federal government which I can explain on the next page but go ahead so the um edus right can you clarify when you have the different rates there is that for like a a unit of time like what is that um an edu is an equivalent dwelling unit I actually so that is based on uh standard residential units okay the engineer but I also have a slide specifically about edus but this is like $865 198 cents so is that for a quarter an annual it's 6 edus so a one bedroom is that a monthly bill for that's annual that's what that's what I thought but I just wanted to clarify like this isn't monthly for annual bills okay for oneu annually it's $1,400 change um and then obviously for three three money to you gotcha okay yep okay that's what I just wanted to make T so it's not a problem um okay so Water and Wastewater funding sources um in addition to ibank which is what we used for uh comp station 2 um Rehabilitation and rebuild um there are two Wastewater and um water funding sources that we received in the past few years and they can kind of be a little bit confusing um they're used for two different projects the first one is the American Rescue plan so the ARP money is what people commonly refer to it as um those were funds awarded by Congress in 2021 through the American Rescue plan Act uh the township was given directly $2.3 million um that's not run through the state it's not run through the county it's directly was sent to the township uh that can be used for a variety of items as a revenue replacement um the funding originally was for very specific items including detailed Revenue replacement premium pay for essential workers Public Health expenditures water sewer and Broadband infrastructure and covid-19 related economic impacts so it was very specific when when those when that um Act was passed in 2021 but since then final guidelines were released in April of 2022 over a year later and they did relax a great deal of how those items were reported to the federal government Vernon Township opted to use the funds in I believe it was September of 2021 for water and wastewater infrastructure so the capital ordinance that was used for this said Water and Wastewater infrastructure because at the time we wanted to move forward for excuse me forward with water but we needed to meet with violia really have more in-depth discussions with them about using it to bring water to Town Center this use of funds would address uh the biggest issue the Town Center has feed since its Inception lack of water access initial estimates for water at Town Center at that time were around $3 million and the township felt that using these funds for this would be the best way to invest in the township for future growth the community Project funding which is the other side which is what we're really going to talk about tonight um that's formerly known as earmarking with the federal government that that went away a few years ago then it came back um it came back with a lot more oversight so now there's a bipartisan committee that reviews all of the requests of for every representative Across the Nation they do um review and approval of all all of the projects that are put forward and each individual um representative is only allowed to bring a certain number of projects before that Congressional committee um for review uh we did receive approval after our application for sewer expansion funds specifically um we rewarded $ 3.52 million at the beginning of 2023 for sewer upgrades in areas that are within the existing sewer service area without sewer access this funding does not expire whereas the American Rescue plan funding does expire we are required to have all cash expensed for the American Rescue plan funds at the end of 2026 um but there is no funding expiration for Community Project funding we have a time we have some timelines but there's no expiration for the federal government it did require a 20% match so it's just over an $800,000 match that the township made um through a bond ordinance last year so the total project cost for this is $4 m316 th000 $316,500 to be clear because I just want to make this very clear this is a joint meeting of the MUA and the township however all funds that were received from the ARP and the community Project funding are all Township funds there is no funds that were transferred to the MUA there were no funds there will not be funds transferred to the MUA um those funds are awarded to the township and are required to be accounted for by the township not the MUA okay again if anyone has any questions so um I just wanted to review first the proposed future sewer service area so we are going to be talking about the existing but I did want to review the proposed future sewer service area um map is one of the maps that was recently like I said kind of preliminarily very softly approved um I like to say that because the experience it takes a long time um so it includes if you just want to take a look up here we have town center right here um Mountain Creek if you can come down Route 94 here you can see past um M and Baldwin Drive Right Here brings you the Appalachian right around here Black Creek goes further down 94 this is the proposed Ryan Holmes project it looks very similar to this project down at the End by McAfee those two projects look very specific like that because they have preliminary approvals through the land use board so when we spoke with the DP about these projects because we had the preliminary projects before them those are what we incorporated exactly um in the mapping for the sewer service area expansion it also includes the legend sewer service area up here and then all of this um in Orange as well so this is proposed this is the existing approved sewer service area that's currently on file with the DP so we actually have two areas here we have the Town Center Town Center quote unquote um sewer service area down here and then Legends is their own existing sewer service area with the expansion they would be combined into one um but as you can see it does not include any of these areas by Baldwin M drive those are uh High residential areas it also doesn't include that area on the golf course um or any of these areas over here that were in Orange before or up here which is where we're going to start um at the Northern end of Route 94 going towards Warwick um that area over there so sewer lines uh the Town Center sewer lines were designed um nearly 25 years ago kind of estimated that uh the township began work in 2005 on the lines um so they were obviously done prior to that a lot of it is in paper they were designed a long time ago and unfortunately the lines were not run in a manner to connect as many users as possible um there are areas along Route 94 South which you can see right here if you come down uh Route 94 This Way South by Wings H&H CVS this whole area right here right along Main Street none of those properties on the opposite side of Route 94 have the ability to connect to the Sewer lines the sewer line runs down Church Street and then kind of adjacent to the municipal building parking lot um on the back behind the apartments and then way back here behind the PDL there's a sewer easement that runs along to pump station one um which is just off of uh Black Creek Drive so like I said unfortunately this whole side of Route 94 is not connected and has no way to physically connect um it leaves portions of Main Street out it also leaves um this whole area up here Route 94 running north towards Warwick uh these are all existing Sewer Service Area Properties however they have no way uh to connect and this area specifically right here um it kind of leads up towards the Veron in on Route 94 uh that's actually there's a stream Crossing there um so in order to do that connection it's a little more costly um you know to expand that line for the existing property owns in there would be very expensive for them to do on their own want to go so this is the the Town Center side I should say um of the sewer lines and then when you move further down 94 um that Force main from Pump Station one comes down this way when you move along 94 down here obviously none of these residences have any way to connect Alpine house the Ferguson Funeral Home the properties that are right here have no way to connect to the lines either because there's no main that runs down there um you'll also note Northwood just that everybody knows is currently owned by Mountain Creek um so it is able at some point to be redeveloped I would hope um they would have no way to connect either because they would have to go like completely around the appalation it's just not conducive to that type of connection um for them as well so what we're going to review in detail tonight um are areas that we've worked on to figure out and I by we I mean our amazing engineer to figure out the issue of connecting as many properties as possible in town center um these areas are delineated by the different colors you can see up here oh sorry um it's kind of hard to see up here but we'll start with uh the northern side of Route 94 coming down this way um moving south across H&H wings and then moving down past uh Baldwin Drive not drive um past cumulus and in front of um the aalach so that's kind of the direction that we're going to move in as we go through each specific location so this is I mentioned this before about edus because we're going to talk about connection numbers uh which we've heard in the MUA a lot of people come and say well how many connections but it's not really about Connections it's about the number of edus right so an equivalent dwelling unit means a me means a measurement of Demand on District facilities equivalent to a typical single family dwelling so everything is um kind of compared to what a single family dwelling is schuma defines that as 250,000 gallons per day and that's pretty much a standard across the nation um it's kind of hard to see here and I wish I could blow up a PowerPoint but I cannot um this is available on schuma website it has all the rates and how they're calculated um so if you take a look a little closely you can see obviously the bedrooms that I had marked out on the presentation before but they also do it based on restaurants Etc um the V the vtm bills are based on edus obviously which is an established practice around the world utilities that meter instead of using edus are those utilities that also use meter water so in the past the township has had United Water where they had meters for both Water and Sewer it was not a separate meter for sewer they based their usage off water water out um burn and Township does not own a water utility nor will it own a water utility it has a mix of water utility property owners and private well Property Owners therefore it uses edus as a basis of calculation connections do not equate to edus as I mentioned before so for example a restaurant if you just look at the calculation um a restaurant with 45 seats would be one connection however it would equate to 6.3 edus right so you're not going to just pay the equivalent of one connection one single family house it's going to be 6.3 edus based on water usage estimated water usage many of the properties in town center because of this um could be underutilized and expanded if they did have access to sewer it's the same thing with water that we've spoken about a number of times um once given Water and Sewer access some of the properties um are entirely vacant they can be developed um and turned into actual ratables for the township and payers on the sewer system this is the first area we're going to talk about burn and Crossing uh there's actually two um recommendations exhibits for burning Crossing uh the first one um will connect existing Sewer Service Area Properties um as well as future expanded service area um the issue that we will address mostly with this connection is the stream Crossing issue like I mentioned before this is a more costly um the most costly area for connection to the sewer system that we currently have and that's really because of the stream Crossing it's very difficult for property owners for one single property owner to be able to um connect to our existing means KN about knowing the stream is there uh the total property connections will be between 7 and 12 so this one connects 12 properties uh the estimated cost for this proposed is $1.9 million it runs it's a gravity main that would run down Route 94 kind of make a right onto Vernon Crossing Road you would have a pump station right about here um which is about across from where we have the um mulch area and the logs that are left out uh for people to come and take so it's about that area is where the pump station would be and then there would be a force main from that pump station that pumps up towards Church Street and connects to our main right there to create that gravity fed um lined Pump Station one like I said this is the more costly um one it does uh create an additional five connections um but this is one of our options for this area the second option for this area meets the same the same things that we need to meet we cross the stream here we're able to expand into the future um expansion area as well as the existing Sewer Service Area Properties it has that same gravity fed main down Route 94 but what it has here is a pump station um and that pump station would create a would be a pump station for a force main that pushes the sewer down um further towards Route 94 and the intersection of uh 94 and 515 that would be the where's the pump station on this plan I don't see it um on this plan it's right it's on here right in front of the Vernon in oh I see now I'm sorry right like it's kind of in front of the ver in yeah um so I the only the only hangup we would have here is speaking to Property Owners about being able to put a pump station on there um we're not talking about a pump station the size of Pump Station two or even Pump Station one um it would be more something like one of the lift stations that we have um and one of our other locations so the there's big difference if anyone's ever been to Pump Station 2 it's big um you know we're not talking about the G you don't need that size to take the gallon and that would be coming down though the proposed cost on this is 1.5 million it would connect seven properties but again we're just thinking outside of the property connections it's about edus um all properties I confirmed today are zoned Town Center they're also zoned for Town Center Redevelopment so um any other properties that are currently on there could eventually at some point be um developed commercial property so the next area we're look at we're going to travel down Route 94 um make a right onto Route 94 going south and we're going to hit the intersection of CVS as we run down 94 past Dunkin Donuts the H&H Plaza intersection at um Black Creek Drive and then just a little bit further down past there so again this addresses the issue uh with all the properties that are along Route 94 that are also obviously Zone town center and zone for redevelopment um those properties there would be 14 property connections it also gives the ability to expand down into this area which I'll review next um that this proposed cost is $650,000 for this um gravity fed main here that would flow into Pump Station one qu question why wouldn't we go up given and grab those houses up there as well that's the next one so in order to do given and Odell um we would need to include that gravity fed main on Route 94 in order to create that connection uh that would pick up 11 properties the there is $700,000 um it obviously like I said it's in order to do this the prerequisite is to do the gravity main on Route 94 so the next section is just kind of across from there uh on Main Street so we're just addressing again areas that are currently not able to connect because they have no Mains that run in front of their properties uh this connection would only connect two properties it's across from the fire department so you can see the fire department here on here uh CVS is right here so it brings it down this way to connect to the line um the kind of runs parallel to guthrey uh Drive was out to 515 oh so it's not in it's not in the road it's off the road right along the side of uh the pond is where the existing sewer line is the gravity fed sewer so this would kind of be an arm off of that along Main Street to connect those two properties um just something to keep in mind when you're looking at a lot of the any of these properties a property owner any or any developer could come in and extend existing Mains um so that's just something to keep in mind something like this it's a smaller cost the cost estimates $200,000 to do that connection um but I wanted to bring this before you so that you understood you know this is a possibility to do this one as well but it's only two it's only two connections again we can think about edus though and the number of edus that could be that next area kind of bounced away from that area Town Center to move further down to the very end of Route 9 where where we're going to talk about the root uh Route 94 um by the Appalachian hotel by Northwoods so this area um is required for the gravity main installation expansion into cumulus Drive which is right here um it'll allow for connection from Northwood which is currently owned like I mentioned by Mountain Creek uh and there are businesses already established along this line so they could obviously redevelop or expand or anything like that with sewer access and again just to repeat in order to do anything in this residential area this main gravity fed main would need to be installed the it would include nine lateral connections and the reposed cost is $900,000 and just so you can see uh the proposed area so that you un understand and kind of see like the dollar amount so these would be all the residential connections if at some point we were to move into the cumulus residences um the proposed connections are 63 in this residential area the cost is $2 million uh but it will address aging residential septic systems that are in that area the MUA worked years ago to get um documentation from the county to support that um in this area and also on not and Baldwin Drive that residential area has had aging septics um for a number of years so they've seen septic applications to the county um or failed septic issues that are reported to the county and they wrote us actually a letter to help us with our application to the state to expand into how old is an aging septic the line there do you know uh I don't know when this prop these properties were originally developed um so I'm not I'm not sure when they were done I I wonder what they consider aging is it 20 years old is it 15 years old is it 10 years old like what's the I mean I feel like that changes every year yeah I feel like five years ago it was like 30 years now it's like 15 so I don't sell your house you got to get a new septic right right right and some and some people are install I mean some people have installed septics now and they're on like an annual maintenance program because of the way they're installed now they have to be yeah there's a lot of bells and whistles right literally yes um so the next area so this is split into two um this addresses the residential area which we're not we don't have approval yet for this right um official approval but this in order to do the expansion into this residential area we would have to bring a gravity fed main um down Route 94 this proposal brings in 12 lateral connections on Route 94 proposed future not right now residential connections would be 36 to the residences that are on um Ma and Baldwin the proposed cost estimate for the Route 94 expansion um is $1.4 million and the reason why we have that is because there is a pump station that needs to be put in there to and a force man a thousand foot Force man to push it to pump station one um in order to be part of the sewer because of the Topography of Route 994 I mean people can drive up and down it you know you go up and down um we're not able to do full gravity straight downward before so we would have to put that pump station in right here and then the force M that way to go to Pump Station one staman and courland are in between Baldwin and cumulus how come that they're not in they're off a m drive you going across from the fire from the funeral home they're right as you go up m i mean they're uphill from 94 y uh so they could be like for for this area and the other area that are not in the um uh currently in the sewer service area we provided this analysis just for demonstration purposes is so you could see once you get into residential areas uh how much more value you get uh for um so we weren't looking at these are quite as closely as some other area so but does it like so we want expanding that does it have to go to the D or uh if it's an extension of of an existing meain that it would be does do you need an approval to be in the sewer service area uh if it's in the well so there's approval forp service area which is in progress and then for each you know for um for once you put new seers in the ground you need to get from D so any of this work all this work okay but my point being you have I don't know 15 homes here that is not colored out in any map so far so my point being would do we need something in the future to add those and if we do wouldn't it make sense to add them now yes so think I think I think what he's saying because to kind of like merge the Gap here um I think what he's saying is the sewer service area will be approved so it will include those homes will that's okay yes yes it will include those homes it's just not part of the project it's not part of yes currently now but that doesn't mean that the means can't be it could be part of the project later yes thank you y yeah it's a good comment if there's any areas that you see that don't have super Reliance proposed for any reason you know they bring it up maybe it's just an oversight maybe you know it's just part the valuation um okay so the next so just in summary um I did summarize the total number of locations costs um and number of connections for each area uh for your review so the total number of connections is 159 so every project that's here everything listed here 159 connection so total projects within the existing sewer service area though or 5.75 million we currently have 4. 4,316 500 um appropriated currently on the community Project funding that's all we have for review this is just foreview anyone yeah so the elephant in the room is what's it do for the current edu rate if we add all this in we always heard right yeah it's all we need more users under our system in order to make it sustainable and help out the current users so what's it do for the current edu rate so I wish that I had an actual answer for you but the issue is that the edus are based on developed there so we have a number of vacant properties in town that are not developed we have a number of vacant property we have a number of properties in town that are developed but not to their Max potential um I can't I really can't give you okay we have I can tell you if it's a residential home 15 connection 15 need to use because it's a res um but for anything business-wise I I can't give you that number I wish that I wish that I could well because this just gives the opportunity for a developer now to come in and you don't know what they're goingon to propose what they're gonna develop right and between thisal okay there will finally be Utilities in town center for development to happen right there was a plan for Town Center without having adequate utilities for either water or sewer but I would tend think that you would have some sort of projection as to what's going to happen to the current edu rate if this is not even to its fullest potential right because if you take what is existing now right not not saying that if you have a vacant piece of land that you're going to put a you know uh you know a six-bedroom house on it I'm saying what is there now if everybody that is proposed to connect because they have a sewer line there now what happens to the current edu I can't believe we go into this project and not have any type of prot projection as to what would happen to the current Ed rate but so here okay so here's the thing let's let's just like kind of unpack that right so we have current projects that are proposed for the sewers for sewers right so um if Legends let's say the Hard Rock plan that everybody talks about I'm going to bring it up here because we've talked about it a number of times people have talked about it in the public if Hard Rock came in and it was a hotel and also a concert venue right you would look at approximately what we looked at a few years ago 600 edus right if that was built out and you had some build out in town center and we had build out at the far end of Route 94 by McAfee you're looking at about a900 to ,000 edu which is a $400 decrease from where we currently are right now $450 to $500 decrease from where we currently are right now um that's a significant decrease however that's taking on Legend sewer service area so our current allocation with schuma is astronomical we can go on about how what we pay for versus what we actually send down um but the issue is that we're currently paying for air we're trying to close that Gap right so if we can bring in if we brought in 600 edus there we have the additional the minerals that came in it was 33 35 I think um for minerals we brought in 33 for the 55 units plus right that are over here um I don't remember the total number of edus but through all my calculation I think I got to like just over 2,000 edus whereas right now we're at 18 no at 16 it's like 2400 edus is where I'm at that brings us to about $900 or $1,000 in edu that's without a change in the existing budget Ryan Holmes that includes Ryan Holmes so Ryan Holmes estimates um I think they're about 170 160 170 because some are one-bedroom two-bedroom yeah um these locations though for Town Center are businesses that are wrong Route 94 that we could estimate based on their current usage but I can't estimate what they could be I can't estimate and that's not what I'm asking because there's never a projection that I've never liked or I haven't disliked right because if you're trying to sell something your projection is going to be there that's why I said existing so if there is a house sitting on 94 right now that may have a potential to become a restaurant it's not what I'm asking I'm asking with that house now added on to this what the current edu is that we can we can tabulate from this expansion without a shovel going under ground to change any anything else that's what I'm asking and I you would basically have an extra $200,000 if it was on I'm just going to say9 I'm going to use the connection number I think that's yeah he's gonna be like don't do it um if I use 159 I would say there's 159 edus which is about $250,000 in addition revenue from way right that decreases maybe $200 off of an EDU not huge it's not huge it's not huge but something yeah it's all step in the right and that's just these that doesn't include that doesn't include Ry that doesn't include Legends coming into the sewers area and what they would be able to do there then no it's a step in the right direction Al small wedding things right right and the other things that are planned along Route 94 that we know about um and that's also without any expansion at Mount Greek if Mountain Creek starts developing um you know that's G to that's going to take off if Northwoods is developed um you know we will see more it's about bringing the utilities to the location and the money we were given from the federal government to use for this I mean you know it's $100,000 and not 100,000 it's about $800,000 we took out in debt on this project that would be paid back through the rate payers through connection fees um or you know rates over time user fees over time the deal the idea the biggest um obstacle that mua has is the connections because we want we need the sewer fees paid annually it's not so much the connection fees that we really care so much about that's a onetime drop in the bucket a typical two-bedroom home long 94 M drive all those places what would the homeowner have to pay to connect so it depends on so the the townships the muas fee it's about $22,400 um the schuma fee right now is just over 8,000 8,000 so it' be a $10,000 connection fee plus any other digging cost or excavation cost or yes so now he could be talking 15,000 sure but what's the cost of the average septic nothing if it doesn't break nothing until you sell your house all right but then you also have the rate stabilization returns right so um for every connection fee that we get through schuma 60% goes back to rate stabilization funds so we're able to use those connection fees um to offset rates even more which is what the MUA has done in the past few years but it's a matter of getting connections because eventually that money Runs Out got it um as this project moves on are the are the people um going to have a mandatory time in which they connect or can they wait until their septic goes bad to connect so that would be up to the MUA right now the requirement is that if there's a main put in front of your house you're required to connect um but in the past the MUA the first for the first year I believe it was the first year right re um they did half of the cost of the connection B but that's only on the btmua we can't control with schuma charges we we could we could work and do what we can on our end to help people out but we have no control over schum B skuma is not making a mandatory to connect in any time frame are they well there's a mandatory period so I mean it's it's I mean you're you're mandated to connect right now as per our regulations if it's if it's within your property that's that's there's if there's a connection that you're able to connect you're required to connect but what he's saying is we can make through the through the vtm way you're required to connect are you retire required to connect through schuma there's a difference I would considering you're talking about 22$ and $8,000 I do know that there is a hardship application that you can apply for both so if SCH didn't have a requirement and we had a requirement to connect okay so I I I hear a lot of if and ANS and butts here it's very simple does schuma have a mandatory connection time I mean we have an mua here we have ATT turns here I why why can't I find out an answer if schuma has a they do not okay so then that leads me to the believe that the MUA then can change their mandatory connection fee and to make it a more reasonable time for somebody to connect where possibly they could wait until their sewer goes their septic goes bad connect if you do that you're defeating the whole purpose having a municipal Utility Authority but you could also do make it so when you sell your house then you do have to connect but what about the fact that other people are being required to connect and I'm not saying other people I'm saying universally going forward from from this point why have why because then you have the ability that when your your septic goes bad that you can now connect you don't have to replace your septic because honestly if I just if I live on Baldwin Drive or any of these areas here and I just put a new septic in two years ago and I paid 3540 $50,000 to put a new septic in and now a a main is going to come up through and I have to now pay $115,000 to connect I would much rather get use out of my $50,000 septic I got in for as long as I could before I have to pay that $155,000 I understand but you can't continue that practice because otherwise you'll never have the appropriate revenues that are coming in that you based your construction uh uh your construction uh estimates on you the whole idea of having an mua is this is what we're doing once the lateral is there then you're required to hook into that lateral if you have a septic system that is functioning I suppose there can be some type of consideration but that consideration would have to be the same for customer a versus customer Z that's exactly what I'm asking but I don't see any good reason to make it so uh uh fluid that that somebody who is sitting with a a an AEP a functioning septic system would be given whatever life there is before they would tie in it that's not the way these systems work I have a question what happens if the sewer line runs in front of your house and you're required to connect but you don't connect does your home go into like some sort of LAN status um no so if you do not connect um you would still be charge the fee the sewer annually got it okay you just wouldn't be using them there is um there is also a hardship application process that someone can make to the MUA and the MUA can does review those on a Case byas Case by casee basis um and address the issues with hardships and it doesn't just address only the connection fee so does schuma have the same hardship they have an a hardship application process yeah but I don't those don't those typically have like a a really low you have to make less than x amount of dollars and it's like no no okay could we recap what was just said because I think I understood what was just said not sure speak out the ter just like to hear that repeated louder what repeat it I don't the fact that I believe you just committed that everybody in town center is GNA be given a limited time period to connect to it no matter whether the septic system is working or not those those are currently the existing rules and regulations back so you're in the sewer service area and you have the ability to connect you have to connect that's not that's not a new proposal the existing policy otherwise as the Pres so we looked that showed where all the existing pipes are already all the people along those existing pipelines have already connected they've all connected because some of those existing pipelines where they put in okay but maybe we should maybe we should wait for public comment I'm sorry BR I don't mean to interrupt you but with the Pres that's it that's it any other questions we do have a public comment time after the presentation right we do on the agenda for this okay we do y by the way just so that it's noted 2018 the annual rate annual charge for a residence was ,80 uh through 2023 Rose to $1,443 which is a total increase of $263 our taxes only went up in uh six years six years uh that amount of money but I think everybody'd be very very happy in 2019 to 2023 the increase was $138 I think the uh the actions that the MUA have taken to stabilize rates have uh paid off we're g to keep trying well that's appreciated okay um you're all done done yeah if you want to you're running with meeting okay you make a motion or I just open it yeah motion make a motion open the meeting for public comment for agenda items only I'll second a motion all in favor I hi on this piece of paper just is a side note from what we talking about a minute ago in this book I have seven properties they all range in size from uh two acres to nine acres okay and there's seven of them all together these are intact town properties Zone TC has everybody on the Town Council know what you're allowed to do on a property that zone Town Center yes pretty much anything yeah pretty much okay so these seven properties are all large enough to have another 55 and older project done or something like uh Ryan properties can come in and do some huge building on these seven properties we as a community we need to be sure that these seven properties are a priority for us all right uh so that they can be developed quickly now another thing that occurred to me while I was listening was that what resoning plans do you have for the entire town center if I own a single family house in the Town Center what can I do to my property can I sell my proper property to a developer and have him turn my single family home into a four family home is that within the zoning of town center I think you'd have to talk to the language all right I think that the commu the people that are making decisions about our mua and spending how much is it 11 million did I hear 11 million how much are we spending all hold the MU is not spending any of this this is Township money okay Township money Township money the total project the total project is 4, 316,000 okay uh so if I own a single family home in the Town Center can I knock my house down and put up a two family a three family a four Family House ask but you need to be considering that that needs to help cover the $4 million as the strategy of where you're running your pipes you not only are running pipes you don't want to think one family house when you want to think I'm running my pipes to properties where I can knock the one family down and put up prioritization so and also implied that is exactly what Dell implied she said we don't know what currently it's a single family home but we don't know what it could potentially be with a developer but the Town Council just realized I own a single family house now I want to sell my single family house it's only a single family house it's only attractive to a certain number of people if the Town Council changed the zoning Mr Mr Clark no a developer would have to come in and go to the land use board and change the zoning also you got to remember something you bought a single family home knowing that when they sell a single family home you're talking about what ifs I personally I personally am tired of what if this happens what if that happens I want to develop this sewer service area and the system based on what we have not if this happens or that happens I want to do it on what we have you know Walt Disney might come from the dead and build a Disney World over there but I don't know what's gonna happen we're talking about 59 properties we're talking about 59 properties right is did I get that number right 59 properties 1599 they all have existing septic systems and there was a conversation that said that they're going to have a certain time frame to connect is that correct now all I'm suggesting is yes I bought a single family home 15 years ago hypothetically I bought a single family home 15 years ago if the town a aggressive took a an aggressive approach and changed my zoning from single family home to a multif family home zoning where I could sell it to it again I'm gonna go back to that conversation I also let you know already letting you go over there's a three minute on these so just if you could wrap it really so that's okay uh all I'm simply saying is as a single family property owner I could Market my property as a multiple family zoned multiple family and I'm opening up the interest in my property to a whole another group of people if the town if if I'm Own Town Center single family can only sell it as a town center single family but if the town changes the zoning so that if you're in the Town Center you can have a two family or three Mr Clark and the homeowner has the right to come in and change that if they want to go to land use board yeah it's not it's not up to the Town Council to change zoning to try to uh maximize the number of cus but that but so so if we were go ahead and change the zoning to something that might not suffice for every single property in that area that's why it's up to the individual developer homeowner to come in and do that on their own but it is it is Zone Town Center so it can it's already done like you've already done that yeah I I would know that I would encourage you to go online on Vernon Township's website if you go to the land use and zoning department online they have the zoning map and you can you can find exactly like where those specific properties you had a question about what they're zoned as a lot of the properties we were talking about here are Zone Town Center which has a whole description of what can be used in town center okay I'm I'm running beyond my three thank uh who's doing the work we're going to do the work in town using DPW or are we hiring contractors to do this no we would need to we would need to go out to bid for the project uh what zoning 159 okay just one last subject and you guys touched on it that property owners are going to have a limited period of time to connect or else they're just going to start getting built right they're going to be built if you won't accept system in the town center and you don't connect to the MUA you're going to get a bill whether you're connected or not is correct eventually eventually what kind of I don't know there's there's a time frame you give them right you give them some time yes I I don't I don't recall what it is but it was there's a certain there was a certain time perod happened on Church Street okay and then after that own business all right so is it five years is it two years I don't know I can't okay so of the 159 properties we don't know when they're going to come online but they're all going to start getting build at some point but we don't know when now I'm just looking back one more second I'm gonna bring one more thing up and then I'm gonna sit down your third one more thing but go ahead I'm a mad man sorry we spoke about their work there are pipes run that you can't connect but okay when I was sitting we had that quick exchange so there are pipes run in the town in the Town Center where you can't connect to and my question is have those buildings been all connected have we forced anybody to connect to the MUA so far or is this plan to to start billing people and forcing them to connect is that a new plan or is that something that's been in place and it's been going on I I don't say hey can answer that question without specific pieces of property reference right like it's too vague of a question are you enforcing any connections now I think that's a simple we have here's the situation you may have connections required that would be very substantial like from here to across the street you can't very well ask somebody that's the lateral out there and you're going to have to pay from your store or your commercial establishment from here to there and it goes up a hill and you might need need some type of a lift station or something each piece of property needs to be evaluated I was under the understanding that was stated during an mua I attend was mua has no to enforce I think we need to let someone else thanks Mr Clarkin there's a lot of people here well I mean online there's people online online too every list I just want to say the MUA has done terrific job on five six years stabilizing they should be commended for doing so like like Pat says this is really it's show the question I have for you these areas were they were they ranked where one was preferred over another this is just um a review of all the areas there weren't did did you look I know you talked about edu like are there commercial areas you mean where you get the biggest B for your ranking of what you mean where where you going to start when you get like where you going to get a return on investment I think yeah I think I ahead way I look they hasn't been done like like this is the this is to this is three but the way I look at it is gonna create the most continuous revenue is is are are more more important areas I also feel that because we have you know Federal money for this and it's a decent sum of money that we may not see the likes of again we have to we have to look at areas that may be out of our budget in the future like for instance on 94 Crossing that stream we have the money we have the money now we may as an mua not have that kind of it money sitting there again to to do that specific piece and anything after that stream it's all uphill from there which means it's all downhill from there into into a pump station eventually so we we have to look at the money that we have available to us and and and prioritize it in in I think those are the two ways what's a real expensive thing that we may not be able to do on our own without those funds also where we're going to get the most edus bank for our buck along 94 is that there's a lot of commercial properties so that you'll get a turn on investment in those areas you agre I age you would agree so so most likely what the plan is to is to look at this expansion and then to to rank it and make a priority list yeah and and the MUA has um a special committee for expansion um and one of those members just happens to be also on the Town Council um so those committee members and the chairman um as well as the mayor like they can all work together to really make the determination on who ultimately makes the decision at town so ultimately it's Township funds um the fund have already been appropriated for the 20% in a bond ordinance so the funds are already there for these Pro for the project um however because we have to go out to bid and get approval obviously the council has to approve the bid Awards right um so that like that would be the process what the timeline for that so there's a whole sow of paperwork we have to fill out for the feds yeah to meet their timelines environmental there the art money has to be spent by a certain time well the ARP money is separate that's not this so that's what so this does not have yes this does not have because it's Federal requirements this does not have um an ending for the fund availability right correct but Arc does yes yeah keep keep that in mind when when you I work with a lot of towns to municipalities who are being slow on spending that money and what will happen is the government will come in think we're moving forward with it with our Ark money yeah no we're moving forward with the AR just keep that in mind the worst thing not spend it and have them take I agree so keep that in mind yeah actually have quite a bit of that incumbered already we yeah all of it is appropriated is what they said has to by 2026 it has to be appropriated by the end of this year 2024 which it already is and then SP spent by talking and we've been working with violia to ensure that we do awesome So eventually this will this this this plan will be in a written kind of written very very prioritized written easy to understand available to the public yes finally when when it happens yes so thank you good luck everybody my only comment is Mr Clarken you had a lot of good questions you didn't get answers to all the questions it's it's as the first time hearing the MUA and listening to your presentations and all you don't have a lot of answers to a lot of basic questions and such as how long will it take to hook in if you're a residential person are you going to be charged the 8,000 bucks that's a yes or a no give the answer you asked the question you didn't get an answer there still there's still there's still quite a few strings hanging on the contrary the the attorney for the MUA said once the once the lateral is laid they have to hook in I said they have to hook in as part of the MUA and what we but what you what you didn't hear apparently was the fact that each connection if somebody just put in a brand new sewer before or septic before this happened you I don't think it would be unreasonable to expect the MUA to provide some type of relief but if the residence has a septic that's been going on for 12 13 14 years I think I don't think it's unreasonable for the MUA to expect that that residence be hooked up regardless of whether or not it's working or not if you don't do this there's absolutely no reason why you should enter into to some type of a project like this when you're going to have an you know an add a situation where it's only sold on when the product when the uh when the residence is sold and then you're forced to hook up some people may not leave but that's not the basis everybody leaves at some point in time yeah you might be six feet under but you're leaving yeah leaving feet first I'm I'm not talking in a in a in a uh jovial sense I'm talking in the fact that you have the respons you you just answered the question by saying if someone put a $335,000 system in a year ago that would be treated different than I had my system at for 35 years where's the policy don't say it's going to be made Up's a hardship us we had it well then why didn't she answer the question I did he said three times there's a hardship I said there's a hardship policy for the MUA there's a hardship policy for schuma and to be clear because You' mentioned before it's an $88,000 connection fee that's schuma connection fee our connection fee is $2,332 so and that connection fee can be changed by the MUA at any time and and we re and we did recently cut that fee down it used to be more last year we cut that fee or two years ago we reduced the fee from what it used to be to make it easier on our residents in this town we can't we have zero control over schuma fee and we've done what we can to to lower hours and if someone does have this is just me speaking this is not like an mua policy if someone has a a year old septic system that they just dropped a fortune on I think we may take some certain things to consideration if we're able to but with that being said if someone wants to argue the fact that well I have a septic system and it works we may have to Institute some you know if we want to maybe extend their time a little bit and I don't know if we could even do that legally but if we did then they would have to provide us with periodic inspection reports of their septic system you know if and if they if comes back that their sep that their septic system is failing well then their their grace period is now over you know I I don't want to you know if somebody dropped 50 30 $50,000 on the septic system if it was me I wouldn't be happy about it either but I also understand the needs of the edus for this system to to stay afloat pardon the pun but I um but I um you know I I I personally would listen to everything on a case-by Case basis which goes to the hardship and and we will do what we can as we have in the past you know it we had a when I first came up here there was a big to do with us and the and the the BFW it was in the papers it was ugly you know we came in even I specifically we went over there we sat down with them we talked with them and in a matter of half an hour we had the whole thing straightened out so we're more willing to work with people um but we can't we can't just change written policies and regulations uh if we feel like it for someone because they're a nice guy there that's a much more complete answer than we've given before rules I now have a better understanding because you went into the details the first time yeah it didn't come ACR there there's there's you know there's rules and regulations we have to abide by it doesn't mean that I'm going to turn a de ear to someone's request if you can always adjust your policies you can't adjust state law right and a lot of where a lot of what we are governed by is state law administrative code and you got to stay within the boundaries of what they give you yes s we have people online for a public comment oh one on person oh I'm sorry I didn't realize sorry step up real quick um I just want to follow up what Mr Clark because I didn't quite get the answer either so a as of this point has anyone been forced to connect like have they been forced to connect yes they have been yeah so the MUA actually does have the authority to force people to connect it if if they don't connect they you get build anyway okay and this is like uh it's and sorry I I don't I don't know any about that this is all new to me so this is written down somewhere that this is the authority that you have that you can make people or build them accordingly you know they have to pay one way or the other Rich that's in the excuse me can you tell us your name I'm sorry Scott Castle from I have public want me to Jesse padini hi good evening um what I'm about to say is not a blanket endorsement by any means but if I had the choice or the opportunity to connect to sewers I would take it in a heartbeat and a lot of people really panic when they hear about oh my God sewers they're going to make me connect and um have having been the recording secretary for the Vernon mua for eight years I've learned so much more than I did prior to the sewers going in when I was opposed to them and that is that first of all I would much rather pay the money to hook up to sewers than I would to redo a septic system and people often don't realize that sewers also increase your property values so given a choice hands down I would connect to a uh sewer system I wish I could but I can't my overall concern for the way you guys do it is funding I hate to say it but we know that Vernon has not had a good record for the way they've hand handled projects particularly the sewer project and has not had a good record with its funding so funding would be my biggest concern um just a quick comment about The Pump Station 2 it was not number of decades that it needed to be in repair we've only owned the sewers for 12 years so that's not a number of decades um I think I heard Donell say that there is somewhat of an approved D map at this time yes is that correct they gave us preliminary um approval to move forward with the rest of the application based on the map that we've been putting together with them okay that's a good thing I'm just a little bit confused about one thing I heard the number 3.52 million but then I heard 20% match 4,31 2016, 500 so how does one number connect to the other so the total project um was approved in a bond ordinance for 4 million 316,000 $316,500 that includes that includes a 3.5 million oh okay so that's our 20% match got it okay um to be clear you stated Donell that all of the funds from the covid relief money will be Township funds and accounted for by the township and not the MUA did I understand that correctly correct the American Rescue plan funds are Township funds okay one last thing I want to say um I can't for the life of me understand when the sewers were first put in why they only went up one side of the street and not the other I'm sorry but that's Insanity to me okay why they didn't do both sides of the street at the same time so my question is now uh is it going to be both sides of the street with the proposed expansion so um so the different locations do address the opposite side of Route 94 that I think is what you were referring to yes yes yeah that addresses the opposite side of Route 94 okay excellent thank you um one last thing um showed us some maps but they're tiny to see online uh going up along Route 94 how far up into the homes um will be required to hook up is it only Route 94 or will it go up into the homes to the streets and the same thing with McAfee for example on Route 94 in mcafe is our Pleasant Valley homes going to be required to hook up that's my last question so I think you're talking about um expanded sewer service area and that's not that's not yet formally approved by the D okay so you're only talking about on Route 94 and that's it correct but those areas are required in order to expand to the expanded sewer the proposed expanded sewer service areas okay great okay that answers all my questions will you please post the PowerPoint presentation on the website thank you very perfect thank you I have Annie L good evening uh an Larson here from Glennwood I I just had a couple of comments I kind of feel like we're in upside down world we now we are working for the MUA and we're doing everything we can to serve the MUA I think if there was ever a Time respectfully Mr rido I disagree if there was ever a time to sell it it's on the upturn when it's on the pro on the precipice of having more users it would work well for the people who are already on the sewers as the uh the public system would have price controls in place and those people wouldn't be at the mercy of the MUA I think it's a terrible idea unless we put it on the ballot and let the township vote how they want to proceed I don't think most of the Town wants to proceed this way I feel like it's unfair as uh as other people have stated for the people who have invested in a septic system to be forced within a certain time frame and you know you have to comp applying this is this is upside down this is not how it works it's the people that are in charge not the MUA so I urge you to please give you know give consideration to put this on the on the on the ballot if it's as wonderful a system as you as you seem to believe it is the people will agree and and vote it yes thank you very much I don't have any other hands up nobody else from the public step forward to close the public comment make a motion I'll make a motion to close public comment I'll second it all in favor hi thank you uh this is a c meeting with the MUA thank you very much apprciate taking the time now thank you very much for a very complete presentation thank you and uh I'll ask for a motion to First any any members of the council have any questions or comments I'll ask for a motion to close the meeting to the public mov by Mr Higgins is there a second I second Mo seconded by Mr Dave all in favor signify by saying I ition carries thank you thank you here pleasure you're very familiar me your last remember that [Laughter] one e