call the meeting to order will the clerk please read the statement meeting notice adequate notice of this regular meeting was provided to the public and the Press on January 17 2024 open public meetings act njs 104-7 thank you do all please stand with me and join in our pledge to our flag I pledge of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation God indivisible liberty and justice for all thank you roll call please um just reading um council member benedetto is just coming on there she is council member yes I here council member G benedetto pres council member Higgins council member Sparta present council president rudo here occasionally when you're chairing a meeting like this it you have the great pleasure of recognizing a group of people or an individual for a significant accomplishment and that's something that we don't get to do a lot quite honestly the number of times that we hear the many of the comments that we receive you know are those addressed to us because somebody's dissatisfied quite the contrary on this situation because the young men and women who stand sit here before us um have had a very I would say a very uh recognizable impact on what they've done and the community is proud of it and I along with my fellow council members thought that it would be uh appropriate for you to come here and and uh be honored and uh we can't honor all the teams but I think what we have here are champions people who have gone to that extent uh who have competed and who have uh risen to the top uh certainly the individual work that that was done by Gabrielle Tavaris in becoming an the individual overall State title is something that uh we all want to recognize and Mr vars if you come forward gra is your parents with you please bring them with me you are being honored for your skate title in skiing uh move over here so you can see see over here there you go see you're on a big screen now there you go on the screen accomplishment you know accomplishment as well you she couldn't have been here without you guys so we really wanna yes present you with this plaque presented to Gabrielle tarz individual overall overall State title Vernon Township girl ski team 2023 2024 congratulations for your determination and athletic accomplishment uh today's date April 8 2024 uh you'll also be getting a I have a uh certificate that you could frame and uh it's signed by the mayor and myself thank you congratulations thank you so much we assemble people uh what it took to get to what you did went fast went fast down a hill thousand I don't know how big mountain creek is but yeah just uh practiced a lot that's a practice yeah I'm sure you uh you you're graduating this year yeah okay going to be going to school yeah whereabouts salv Regina University in Rhode Island Rhode Island do they have any big mountains in Rhode Island I think for her in Colorado okay thank you again congratulations congrats congratulations thank you congratulations thank you not to be outdone the uh girls key team did pretty well on their own right am I correct right overall state champions so you got the big banner you're going to hang in the gym good it's great we'd like to have the team come up here please bring your parents please join with me uh let me see where are the thank you thank you so yeah I know I know under the baby they're right here thank you than yes he'll get on picture sh on in yeah this is yeah okay they're all over here I don't want to be I need these Captain where's the captain there a captain your sister my sister is not here okay and uh coach I point how are you doing so we get you on the SC uh Natalie's over here Natalie don't disappear I want to get in front though a picture of them I don't need to Andi recognition of the efforts of the girl ski team Township would like to present to the Vernon Township High School girls ski team overall state champions 2023 2024 congratulations for your determination and athletic accomplishments April 8th 2024 we've got a great team that you captained and uh I'm very very happy to have you here and present this to you uh if you'd like to give out the individual certificates Gabrielle congratulations Kelsey Nadia Carolina I know you conratulations good job girls good job see your coach and moving you along and getting you to this level uh a lot of hard work I'm sure it is a lot of commitment that's what Champions are made Absol Comm they had that thank you so much and we appreciate you taking the time to come here this this evening thank you for having sh is proudy thank you congrats girls thank you nice job thank youat no one more one more basketball team not to be outdone boys had a great year this this year you really had a fantastic year uh I don't do Wells I'm sorry I don't do Hills well at my age but uh it's just a little slippery but I do do basketball courts okay and I came down and I saw number of games and you guys did a heck of a job a real good job when you when you put Glenrock away that was really phenomenal that really good nice nice going and uh I was not able to attend the the the Tri County championship theun and waren Sussex County U you know tournament but you guys want it and you did it convincingly so uh presented to the Vernon Township High School boys basketball team the hund war County Sussex County Champions 2324 congratulations for your determination and that on your athletic accomplishments uh April 8th 2024 so if you guys come on up oh my God yeah 5 foot eight that's what they told me right congratulations thank you so much thank thank you so much thank you congratulations congratulations congratulations there's a guide my size team captain here right here and Coach right here coach stand here is the picture of okay council members Tipp to okay thank you awesome thank you so much congratulations thank you very good Lu thank you who's graduated this guy this guy down here we have one other senior who's not able to make it tonight but we had the three this year everybody else will be back for next season thank you thank you so much thank you what Mr rzo failed to mention was that for the first time ever Mr Foley correct they made it to the group two North section one group finals down at Ramsey and uh I tell you you guys are right there with a few minutes left in the game and uh they didn't lose they ran out of time so great job everybody than you so much than the the working on it almost there Mr Foley how can I get one of these sweatshirts they're pretty nice let me see what I can [Laughter] do good very nice than great job thank you so much thank you I understand that you gentlemen have major undertakings tomorrow because of the vacation that you just had and you're going to be having to take a lot of tests and stuff so you you might want to leave if you want you're about to get bored feel like you have to sit here and we won't be offended listen listen do drown on okay I didn't see anybody walk in with pillows so I know you're not prepared to [Laughter] stay you parents thank you thank you thank you he brought the trophy trophy the trophy excuse me oh bring the trophy up we see that trophy Mr Foley bring the trophy up Gabrielle is she here kelse that for the team up bring it up so they can see it on TV maybe we can take a picture of that bring it broke up don't worry about it's a little crazy glue see the camera hanging up there on the top just so so so J so Jessica could see it yeah and do you know what that trophy is made of obviously not gold no it's made up a lot of sweat determination beams from the original uh Lodge oh really oh really oh yeah that's that's awesome thank you so much finished second in States overall so good weigh more than me guys stay open bill yeah thank you War here okay thank you very much Council for uh problem yeah have two Proclamation this month National volunteer and also child abuse um hiin would you like to read the designation of April as National volunteer mod oh you don't have it should be in here yes whereas volunteers are part of committees or communities throughout this country Vernon Township is well known for its spectacular volunteer Spirit large measure of Vernon's strength Beauty and unique character is derived from the outstanding contributions made by thousands of residents who volunteer and every facet of everyday life and play a vital role in many organizations and groups and whereas residents who volunteer their time provide assistance which cannot be measured in terms of dollars volunteers provide a spirit of helping that multiplies in value when each resident reaches out to assist another discovering their power to make a difference and whereas volunteers throughout the township of Vernon donate their time to a wide variety of programs such as arts and Recreation youth athletic leagues and through their service on multiple Township boards committees and commissions and whereas volunteers provide vital Emergency Services through all volunteer Emergency Medical Service Department fire department auxiliary and Emergency Management and whereas April is a month for volunteers with the occurrences of national service recognition day birth day and United ways National volunteer month and whereas during this month all over the nation service projects will be performed volunteers recognized for their commitment to service whereas the Vernon Township Council extends their deepest gratitude to the Fine men and women who generously donate their time to the community whereas ver Township New Jersey recognizes the benefits derived from volunteers and encourages fellow citizens to volunteer in their Community by volunteering and recognizing those who serve we can come together and make a difference and now therefore be it resolved by the Vernon Township Council that April is recognized as National volunteer month in Vernon Township New Jersey thank you Mr and certainly this month brings out a another uh concern we all have which is the treatment of our children and perhaps Mr sparter could read the Child Abuse Prevention month Proclamation absolutely thank you whereas child abuse and neglect is a complex and ongoing problem problem in our society affecting many children and SU County and whereas every child is entitled to be loved care for nurtured feel secure and be from be free from verbal sexual emotional and physical abuse and neglect and whereas child abuse and neglect not only directly harm children will also increase the likelihood of criminal Behavior substance abuse health problems and risky behavior and whereas the effects of child abuse are are felt by communities as a whole and need to be addressed by the entire community and whereas effective Child Abuse Prevention programs succeed because of Partnerships among families social service agencies schools religious and Civic organizations law enforcement agencies and the business Community now therefore be it resolved that the mayor and Council of the township of Vernon does proclaim April as Child Abuse Prevention month and calls upon all Citizens Community agencies Faith groups medical facilities and businesses to increase their participation in our efforts to support families thereby preventing child abuse and strengthen the communities in which we live thank you Mr spart the last meeting a member of the community brought up concern for uh the maintaining Integrity of their uh of their residents against potential uh un unapproved uh uh Waters no looking for uh taking taking residence otherwise known as squatting um and I thought that was a a great recommendation and following during this since then I've been meeting with a number of people in in our uh the Professionals in our Township um talking with council members and uh trying to see if in fact we can move on on this particular area and developing a uh an ordinance to handle this problem problem is is that as we begin to look into this and as I began to look into it speaking with a number of people there are no there's no statutes in the state that prohibit what this problem is it's a two-fold problem because it becomes at one point a criminal issue but then on the other hand it could become a civil issue and trying to get these two situations to uh to resolve them uh it's very difficult for the township to ask its law enforcement uh people to take part in this because they have no backing as police for on a criminal basis it's difficult to determine to ascertain whether or not there was a Breakin entry a burglar or something in that line or if the individuals who now uh occupy residencies in a particular home are doing so legally or illegally or with permission or without permission uh and it becomes a question of trying to make that determination and that can become a civil issue so there is potential for um legislation uh in the state of New Jersey and Trenton to uh to uh provide the township officers uh law enforcement personnel with a the ability to uh make that determination and to give them uh support in in the doing their job in trying to uh prevents families or individuals from occupying a home uh illegally until that comes around it quite possibly could become more of a hindrance an assistance in terms of passing an ordinance but that doesn't mean the township is without uh any type of resources to help our our residents and and handle this problem and it's something that something as simple and I forgot about it as calling Police Headquarters and saying to the police officer on duty that I'm planning planning to leave my home for a week I'm going on vacation can you please ask or schedule my home for uh you know to be checked on a regular basis uh I'm going to be at this number here's my telephone number uh I have relatives in the area I have a nextdoor neighbor who has keys for entry and no one is to be there during the time that I'm away so now of course police can go up make a check on the on your residence and if somebody's there they can act on it very very quickly and avoid the entanglement of a PO potential squatter because that seems to be where one of the problems is is that if they're there for a period of time and no one else has challenged their uh uh right to be there it the longer they're there without this challenge the more uh the stronger their case becomes especially if they have something like a false lease or a a bill that shows that you know they have uh ownership there because somebody delivered a pizza there or something like that so um in my discussions with the police chief and uh U members of the the council members of the administration they they look at this as as a definite way of handling this until something is done uh uh more uh more completely on a uh in Trenton as a uh as a statute that was put through um I know it's not what you want to hear okay we'd like to be able to say you don't belong here get out and if you don't get out I'm going to call the police and if the police come they'll they're going to arrest you it just doesn't work there no matter what we try and do I we don't want to provide any legal advice which is Inc correct and place you at risk or anybody else at risk and secondly uh working with our own Police Department we can move this along and provide the residents with a very very sound way of handling uh this particular problem not to mention that there are these ring cameras that you can put on your door which will provide you with up to date you know time hour to hour uh you pictures of your home and the status of that home the Integrity of its occupancy whether or not somebody is there or not so please you know use that it only becomes beneficial if anything does take place where you need to go to court and you have a photographic record of something like that taking place so uh we will not stop this doesn't mean we're just going to let it go by its own on its way it's just that we need a working uh basis to have this particular uh type of ordinance supported by the township and passed by the council Council have you any comments to say that I've missed that you perhaps you might want to be able to provide help to them sure um I think you did a great job summarizing uh you know almost everything um the council president made a good point about there's a civil side to this and also you know that's if you're a squatter uh you have to go through ejectment proceeding which is different from an eviction proceeding but still very rigorous and has different steps that a homeowner has to take um however there's a criminal side uh you know if you someone's in your home uh who has no right to be there and they're you know they're there for a short time uh that could be considered trespassing and that is that is a criminal uh violation so that is something that police could help you with um and I would just add uh the there's a there's there's a new bill um in Trenton that's being considered that would add uh criminal offenses to the act of squatting so the person who's squatting in a residence uh right now their only penalty is a civil penalty and um you know they would just lose possession of you know of the the residents that they're staying in if this bill were to become law they would Al be a criminal uh element to it as well so it's just even more further of a disincentive uh for them to do it um but yeah and I another you know um as the council president noted uh just given the the very strenuous nature of eviction and ejectment proceedings in the state um it is difficult uh for the township to put forward an ordinance about squatting um that would take matters into the Township's own hands so to speak um that would not preempt state law and thus be invalid on its face so while uh you know the township could theoretically pass an ordinance like that um is our belief that should it be challenged that the likelihood of it being upheld uh as valid or is very low um and and you know you don't want to get in front of this of the you don't want to you can't preempt state law you can't get around the eviction eviction laws of the state they're obviously very strenuous and their designed to uh I'm sure if anyone's been through before they're designed to um protect you know both the property owner's interest and the tenants interest but in this case um you could argue whether or not there is a tenant interest but interest that's for another day I suppose but yeah that that would just be all I would add is that that that would be it thank you I do I have aou questions there's there's literally no law against squatting in New Jersey um that if you don't I can yeah so there's a there's a there's obviously there's uh trespassing but then that's more for short term yeah that's more for short term uh so if you can if someone enters a residence of which they have no property rights to uh they can show you know let's say they they're there for a few months they can they can try to argue that you know they're they're in the process of making that the residents therefore they are squatter squatter is not a a legal term like how do you you know I'm being it's it's a good question you know so they don't own it you you have a snowbird who has a summer home here in Vernon and they're in Florida all winter so that's probably the case it's not for people gone a week on vacation it's really for homes that are empty more significant time periods right the the longer your home is empty more precautions you should take and uh so a squatter you know has to break in I'm assuming people lock their houses when they leave for a month yeah right that be another issue too so they have to break I'm going to on in the scenario they have to break in and then they turn on the electric and they fill the oil tank and they start acting like they live there that's not a crime uh well yeah so it's it's not a it's uh it's certainly I mean I'm not faulting you but no no I mean it's it's it's I mean I know it depends on the facts of the situation but you know they could be charged with trespassing or breaking entering but the real issue I think is the homeowner wants their residents back yeah uh free and clear um so that that's where it becomes a bigger issue because possession is not a criminal uh matter it's a civil matter it has to be you know it has to go through a court uh unfortunately so you have to go through that that whole you know ejectment proceeding or eviction proceeding if well ejectment is if they don't have a lease so that right ejectment is if they never had a legal right to the property e eviction would be is a hold over tenant maybe who stopped paying rent or you know something to that effect okay that's that is interesting so that's so that's actually probably a bill that uh mortgage paying tax paying homeowners should contact the legislators and support because um that would only just protect them because there would then be a criminal element to you know there'd be some teeth to it yeah and just for reference the the bill is a is Senate Bill 725 it's sponsored by uh Senator steinhardt and Senator Tesa Republicans s25 you said uh 725 oh 725 another road that you can follow is contacting Mr Parrot uh in Sussex County uh the county at the County Seat uh and asking to be put on a an alert uh they the township the county rather will put you on an alert notification should anybody make an attempt or try to uh do anything with uh manipulating ownership of deeds and ownership documents soon as that is they not they that's they recognize that something is taking place they will notify you and uh provide you give provided you give them the contact information and so forth and uh you can take steps to stop that that's something else that you can do well and as yeah our to our community if you are a snowbird and you do leave your home I think it it definitely makes sense to do what's suggested and let notify the police department and know if there's a mechanism within the township um to notify the zoning official or you know like some flani permits because I'm not paying for any new construction like you know whatever might be happening um interesting I I might be I might be very old school here but I think it comes down to get to know your neighbors as well you know um you know I have a neighbor that lives next door to me um you know when I'm away and I forget to tell them because we do normally communicate when we're going to be away and he'll call me up he's like hey there's a car in your driveway you around you know and you know I I appreciate that that goes a long way all of our our entire town is basically built on communities we have very few houses that are remotely um located that can't be seen by another house or something like that so you know if you live in a community and you're new here I encourage you not only for this but for other reasons reach out to your neighbor get to know them exchange cell phone numbers let them know that you're going to be away they see anything strange so please reach out to you um and you can um you can follow the other suggestions that we're we're listed here so um re get get to know your neighbors most of time they're really good people two other questionsly is it possible that people could say go to a state park not used in the wintertime and take over a facility there not a personal residence but a state owned property um I mean it's certainly possible I don't know if they would have any legal right to the property I'd have to look into it more about the about uh a state or locally owned property how that would work um my guess is that it it it would not be it would not go on my guess is it would be noticed before they could consider themselves a you know long longer term so it would be trespassing before it would be a squatter or you know establishing any sort of premises rights off that because it should commercial properties are different from Residential Properties as well in in terms of this in terms of uh landlord tenant yes uh I would have to I mean I'm not sure about someone who's trying to live in a commercial property and my guess is it's similar but um they are treated a little separately in landord ten Court um generally but my guess is it's the same process uh okay there any municipalities you know because it's obviously a state uh decision that have adopted the own um I tried looking through it I couldn't find anything that was really on point I think uh I think like I mentioned it's just hard to get in front of the state on this one because if you if you're circumventing or you SE to be circumventing uh landlord tenant court um you run into enforcement issues I think uh you know you you put I think you kind of put um you know maybe put law enforcement in a in a precarious position and then you put you know uh residents in a precarious position because they might rely on a law that on its face could be invalid and and you know may if they went through the proper channels it might be their issue might be resolved beforehand and if we you know if uh yeah so make a long story short no I have not seen a another Town's ordinance that has directly addressed this that's you know outright said you know uh no squatting no squatting um or made it a you know made it like a finable offense um you know with this bill in Trenton you know that this would give in my opinion in our opinion it would give municipalities some teeth and trying to trying what's your guess on time frame when will we see yeah I wish I knew I can't I hav work at in a long time so I don't know it's being May if we're sitting there in six months we will be a test case and pass that around that yeah it's you know it's it's I'm not I can't speak to the Merit or the uh likelihood of success of the bill I just know that it has been introduced and uh it looks to be adding you know I think at least three criminal offenses to uh fourth deegree crimes to uh to people who are trying to you know gain residence in a place that they're squatting stealing a house basically perhaps our Administration can comment on this as well what I can tell you is the chief was at a Chief's association meeting a couple of weeks ago and speaking all the other Chiefs in Sussex County nobody in Sussex County has any kind of ordinance on this that's just here I don't know outside of Sussex County but definitely not anyone in Sussex County has anything so I I just want to if you don't mind I just want to add the uh if you go to Sussex County clerk.org um you can register your block and lot uh there um and or your name um you can find your block and lot information at the www.sex.nj.us804anddate.com [Music] is is to understand that um you don't want to find out 6 months later that you haven't made a payment to your second mortgage right so you you'll know right away that there's been a change it doesn't prevent it but at least you can get on top of it right away um that's the whole point of of what was set up at the county um I will post the information and directions on on my site the police will be doing it on their Facebook site as well and I Look to put this link on our uh Verna Township website uh uh website page as well this way people can you know get this uh get them get themselves registered so sorry thank you jumped in now okay let's move on next item for discussion is consideration of the mayor's position in terms of uh his employment as mayor that whether it be full-time or part-time uh I'm sorry thank you whether it be full-time or part-time this question has arisen a number of times but I don't think it's ever really been addressed uh not to anybody's satisfaction uh we've had four Mayors um Mr marada Mr shortway uh Mr Burell and our current mayor Mr Rossi uh all three of them or I'm sorry all four of them including Mr Russy have started out and worked as full-time uh they've expressed the feeling that their presence is needed and they consider it a full-time job uh by nature of the fact that they are the mayor the chief executive officer the township and that all of the emergency uh Personnel report to them report to him or her um that brings the question that that person who occupies that office is available must be available 247 so in that regard it's a full-time job but if you're looking at whether or not they have to come in every day uh that again becomes a question as to whether or not they feel their their staff can handle the operations of the township uh without him being uh available or on site or providing oversight every day so it's it's a uh it's a it's a questionable situation and I open it up to the council for discussion anyone wishing to talk about it well it's been discussed I even before I've been on the council I was speaking to the mayor and last uh July last October it was a pretty pretty good discussion taking place Mr spart and Mr B you you had your comments and all sorts of different uh ideas thrown out and uh it was uh not decided obviously so uh the mayor ran knowing that the the salary was $30,000 the council members ran knowing that it was $33,000 a year for us and uh there were different options run out there maybe there should be a yearly increase maybe there should be a different definition possibly there should be a set of uh regulations and rules accomplishments like like in other positions if you go from quote a part-time to a full-time what are you going to accomplish uh are you paying for time or you paying for performance and then you take a look at the people here we have a business administrator CFO a mayor are the cross are the cross responsibilities on those different positions and those things haven't been done yet so to to S to say and to put in the budget that uh hey we we're going to recommend on a a sizable increase on what was elected we're not ready yet in my opinion to do that I'm not saying that I wouldn't support that in the future but that groundwork has not been done thank [Music] you um I mean we have debated it quite a bit um it I think most I think our current mayor and our our former mayor's position was that it was a full-time um responsibility I've never done the job myself reading the the job description it's it's definitely um encompasses quite a quite a few responsibilities I don't know if there is overlap between the business administrator and the and the mayor and if it could be a part-time position but I guess that's something you know I don't know if anyone else has opinions on that and how would we determine that you know what's what's the basis or what's the tool or measurement that would determine and can we determine that can the council make a determination um that the mayor's position is full-time or is not full-time maybe that's something for Council um yeah so the question is can you Des can the council recognize the a full-time position the mayor being yeah yeah absolutely I think that would be done um it could be done rather via I think it's or I think it's via ordinance um yeah that's absolutely something that the the council we could designate it full-time or part-time we could do either one or um yeah well I I guess it's uh I guess it's it's considered part-time now I'm trying to I was scanning to this earlier I didn't see I think that's part of the problem yeah so I I he's got it up there yeah I have it right here yeah yeah that might be something that needs to be clarified either way um my guess though is that in terms of the benefits and all that you know that that way it's it's part-time from the the Township's perspective but so the mayor is not eligible for benefits currently oh I don't know I'm I thought he was but I could be wrong not sure but I just meant you know otherwise okay [Music] um yeah so it's something we can codify if we so choose I believe so yep okay what are the ramification are you done Natalie I'm sorry what are the ramifications if we uh CAU a in an ordinance as a full-time position as far as does that lead to compensation um does it lead to uh different level of benefits does it lead to uh being eligible for pension what you know what are those things that those two words mean um yeah I it would if you if you were to change it um you know you would set you know from my experience with other municipalities another full-time position I you would set the salary via salary ordinance or resolution um all up the benefits question to the administrator and staff I I I believe so off the top of my head they would be involved in the pension but I would I would check with you so um yeah so uh as an elected official you actually cannot be involved in the New Jersey state pension system different levels um for pensions so a new um mayor like mayor Rossy would not be eligible for pension he would be eligible for um dcrp which is kind of similar to a 401k but it's a designated contribution retirement program so the township contributes and this is for all part-time employees but it's specifically for elected officials as well um they contribute uh 3% and then the employee contributes five and a half percent um and that gets invested and um vested as soon as first year is complete okay thank you what about insurance benefits so insurance benefits um when I came here in 2018 benefits were already an option for um mayors that were on because it it was historically considered full-time um so that was always an option we I don't know what happened under mayor marada I don't do not know if that was taken for benefits or not um I know that the three mayors that we've had I don't believe we had any benefits that were taken I'd have to look into that but but it's it's available I don't really care who took what but it is currently it is available it currently there's nothing that prohibits it prohibits it gotcha okay it would be if it was C I will say if it was codified time that would prohibit it and what about like a vacation or no so in a town say possibly where uh Council lives our May Council he's a mayor of that town right oh yes yes right his salary is what $155,000 I don't know off the top of my head I think that's what it is I think that's what we looked up so that's a part-time mayor or is it a full-time mayor um I don't want to speak for him I know he he I'd say he he's probably doing a both this his day job and that job a good amount of time I'm sorry what was the question I couldn't hear it uh the I'm filling in for my boss Matt MCH tonight he's also a a mayor uh so the question was whether he uh his mayorship is considered a full-time mayor uh mayor position and where was that where what him uh Bridgewater the other concern consideration is the fact that we operate under a fter form of government and by looking at the form of government we operate under but moving from town to town you see various applications of how uh the administration is recognized in terms with compensation as well as the uh the elected officials who serve as Council um the one that is always used as a comparison with or frequently used as compar as for comparison is Newark New Jersey which is essentially the same type of government that we have but of course because of the size and the number of people the the numbers tend to range higher but because of the uh conflicting nature of sharp James who was frequently cited as a contestant in any type of litigation along with the council who frequently challenged uh his ruling the fact that he didn't accept it uh they were there are many many uh uh judgments that have been handed down which might answer something like this but again I caution because the numbers are different you're looking at a city one of the largest cities in the state you're looking at people who uh are elected they're paid in council's paid in double digits and so was the mayor's paid in triple digits so looking at a different way of handling it but the the situation is the same in terms of what the law allows for that form of government so I I just wanted to bring that up um perhaps if we can if we we have a couple of members of the council would like to does Jess have I'm sorry Jessica I didn't you weren't here and uh I apologize just open public no worries in comments uh yeah well so I have uh I share the same concern as several other people about having a full-time mayor and a full-time ba I would like to also see what responsibilities overlap or what can be combined into one role all right can I just make a comment real quick certainly um we do not have a full-time ba she's part-time I would just be very careful talking about Personnel tonight uh there's a process we have to go through if we're g to talk about someone's position I just want to put that I just wanted to very careful that I know that's the the story but I don't think this question is out of line is there any statutory positions um that are needed in uh yeah uh the fauler ACT it's a you know think the mayor of the council I have to go through it but yes there are there are positions that are I think that would be helpful as well think a business administrator is a statuto required position yeah yeah the yeah Adat the clerk but those are those are my for my understanding statutorily required thank you would any rather than just drop it and let it plop and forget about it is there somebody member of the council two members of the council who would like to uh get together and put together some type of report or recommendation uh we can discuss this at a later time um maybe two months hence or something like that give you time give anybody time who's willing to do it to contact other townships of uh of of similar size with the same type of uh governing platform F right and come back and see what we can what we can do i' volunteer for that okay thank you Bill someone else don't have the time I I just don't have the time I just don't have the time right now I'm sorry uh normally as as count like Jessica well I ran with Anthony I don't know if I should well it's would you be willing to work with with uh Mr Higgin yeah yeah I mean if if people feel they trust me to be impartial absolutely and I will be okay well I trust you you you've proven to me you're pretty you're you're very impartial so okay yeah yeah I'm happy to do it so today is April the 8th uh April 8th May 8th how about first meeting in June is that soon or give you a little more time yeah certainly if you need more time just yeah I'll reach I'll start reaching out and June 10 June 10th June 10th the June 10th meeting okay so that gives you two months two months and you can all take you know if you have any questions or if you have any ask for assistance please do so sure um we look forward to hearing your your thoughts I'm in F I'm a supporter of our mayor I I like the three months worth of work the involvement the time spent and uh everything's moving in the right direction and I think to do the fair thing would be uh getting all the facts first that's all well the mayor has asked the council he thinks this is a problem and he'd like us to try and resolve the problem so for the betterment of the community we can move forward right because it seems to be a an evergreen issue that seems to continually you know see itself being the question being raised yeah going back to the first May or under this former government it became a big issue back then right 12 years ago so it's never been best practice of course I believe carries weight so I mean traditionally becomes a precedent I think that's something that has to be made um we can go from there too okay thank you anyone have any question any questions on it no okay public May comment on this at the appropriate time thank you thank you mayor Rossy your comments please perhaps you might want to step to the podium and no we don't we don't have that set up yet but uh the count the podium isn't set up well it's set up for that side but you want me to address the actually the only it's up to you no we we'll set that for another time actually the only thing I was gonna again I think that the council has already talked um about some of the uh things that uh that's that's going on um so again this uh this month is uh important to me it's uh it's not only my birthday which is April 15th just in case anyone was interested in having a my birthday is April 15th on tax day in case anyone interested in having a big celebration for me just kidding guys uh but tomorrow is our business administrator's birthday congratulations um but might how's that good all right um so I I just want to uh just Echo some of the uh the language some of the things that we talked about was which was the the child abuse right so um it is this month is child child abuse uh prevention month so child abuse and child neglect continue to threaten the lives and health of over millions which I believe is 7.5 uh children in in this country have have been uh reported uh uh of child abuse um their physical suffering and emotional uh anguish challenge us as parents neighbors and citizens to increase our in our attention to their protection and intensify our efforts to prevent their their Mal Mal treatment children may be endangered by physical battering denial of the basic necessities for life life and health sexual abuse and exploitation or emotional cruelty public concern can help prevent Mal maltreatment and help protect children action taken after cruelty has occurred is often too late prevention of uh of abuse requires that neighborhoods and communities be tentative uh to these problems uh of families in the in the midst and be willing to help when help is needed it it's it's requ ired uh the active concern for educational uh medical mental health law enforcement and Social Service professionals and the efforts um of volunteers and private citizens health and well-being of our children underly the future of our country and most importantly in our state so please if anyone suspects child abuse child abuse please contact the the police teacher a counselor I mean for God's say call my office uh and and and will'll address that so no child should ever be subjected to to abuse and uh I also want to thank the Vernon Township's women club for decorating the front of our uh to spread that awareness um also uh April is you know as you guys discussed the national uh volunteer month so I want to thank all of our volunteers past present and future this month is dedicated honoring all those volunteers who are vital to our community I also want to especially thank those volunteers of our fire and ambulance departments who put their life on the line for for us each and every day uh in Vernon we welcome all volunteers and we look forward to working with anyone who wants to dedicate their time and energy to serve our community so thank you um I know you touched on the I had a whole thing on the squatters but uh I think we we kind of beat that up a bit so um I don't want to touch on that but I do want to um uh add uh to the record uh Kathy zes um she will be serving on our senior uh Advisory Board Kathy will make a nice addition to the board and we welcome we welcome her and I know you guys talked about the Mayors full-time part-time and that's all I have thank you I have thanks thank you very much man may I have a motion to open the floor for public comments so moov by Mr Higgins second seconded by Mrs de benedetto all in favor signify by saying I I I I motion carries the please note that portion of the meeting is for agenda items only and is limited to three minutes per person anyone wishing to address the council please come up to the podium hello good evening good evening my name's Peter Knight I'm a resident in town um it's unfortunate I don't think I'll have enough time to address something that I hadn't planned to address and that is on the squatter situation but what I'd like to uh put my remarks to tonight is but has become a acrimonious uh debate or discussion argument whatever you want to call it concerning the compensation of the mayor and even defining what the role of the mayor of Vernon has um I understand uh uh council president rudo uh talked about um New York as um a possible uh comparison but under the fauler ACT there are four forms of of government um here we have a strong mayor council um and we operate organizationally as such um very often I want I have discussions with people suggesting how about we compare ourselves to Sparta now Sparta is also organized under the wner at but their form is called the B and that's with the mayor and the strong counsel so in that form the mayor is basically a figurehead um the council actually has um operational control of the township like to U share with people that inspire the mayor salary is between $ 49.7 th000 and $725,000 again I want thank you again I want to emphasize that's a Figure Head role in Sparta the mayor of Newton is 49.6 th000 to 72 zip recruiter which is a major uh recruiting site in state of well throughout the country um has shared that and this is in New Jersey that the average salary for Mayors now keep in mind this is mayors of all have 30 seconds left yeah some fortunate only 30 seconds so uh the average uh compensation for mayor is 63.6 the 25th percentile meaning the bottom quarter is 53.8 and next 75th percentile goes up to 954 so I guess this is something that's been kicked down the proverbial Road time and time again we've had three prev admin Mayors I'll wrap up with three Mayors saying that this is a full-time job so I hope that you do a fair and agnostic um analysis be careful of who you compare the role of our mayor to thank you very much thank you I'd love to talk about the uh water rule please understand back in 2011 the township underwent a major election changing the form of government from a uh from a Township manager and uh elected Council and then where the council was elected a figurehead mayor by figurehead the mayor did not have overall oversight responsibility on the township employees but was required to sign documentation and exercise the office responsibilities such as marriage and things like that the election was held and the result of that election was a strong mayor and a weak Council by that the council has the authority to develop the budget if in fact the budget presented by the mayor is not acceptable there are ways of handling this where individual lines can be examined and revised and there are laws requiring the level of voting to remove or to replace uh so to make the statement that we that Faulkner is all the same is not correct there are different forms of Faulkner and that's what has to be addressed I don't know what Sparta has I don't know what Newton has whether it's I think what Mr knif said was a uh a strong mayor and a strong counsel correct that's that's yeah right that's different from what we have here thank you very much thank you yes BR my name is Stephanie Blain I live in Glenwood and I apologize for the shirt I wasn't expecting to be here tonight or I would have put on a different one um speaking particularly to what Mr rudo just said I was going to suggest I came up here in 2015 from Orange New Jersey which is the exact same form it's the it's the mayor strong count mayor strong form of the fauler act and because I was in elected politics and held elected office down there it's even though it's much more urban it's a 2.2 square mile city with maybe when I left 32 33,000 people there it still might hold value for you to compare things like that there are other towns and townships uh I didn't come prepared to name all of them but I can certainly give that up email or something to whoever but think a little bit more outside of the box when you're looking for comparisons because that's a much more accurate in some ways a much more accurate comparison than Sparta for certain I believe Newton yeah and even though it's more urban there's a lot of similarities we might not like to say that but it's true that's pretty much all I wanted to say thank you very much thank you is there anyone else Scott Castle from Glenwood um I guess it's the Hot Topic the uh the mayor specific but I didn't realize that at the time but um I just wanted to add that uh I did like all the council's comments I think you know I'm on the same page with that um I think one thing that's not mentioned you know besides mentioning the salary and the benefits and all of that that that would change is that also coming with a full-time position is accountability I think you know if you're making it a part-time position it's hard to hold somebody fully accountable to get everything done where where you're basically telling them it's it's part-time when it's full-time now you've got full accountability for everything that you need to do you've got all the resources that you have that you know you should have to to handle that um and then one other thing I had just read couple weeks ago in a New York Post it was regarding New York state but I think it's relevant here and it was an article about you know local governments all that but in there was pce that said uh businesses that uh are moving or opening in rural towns really uh they they did a poll and I don't have the numbers under I wish I did but really prefer towns that have full-time Mayors because they feel like they're uh any of their concerns or the questions that they have they have one person to go to where and they're not going to get you know oh the mayor's going to be in on Friday or something like that like they have a full-time mayor there so I think with us trying to uh to get you know businesses to come here I think we need the mayor there and I know the mayor's putting a lot of work in to trying to get that done so I'm 100% behind the mayor being full-time I'm not uh you know thrilled with spending more money on salaries and all that but I think with just the small sample size that we've had so far he's putting a ton of work in and I think our return on investment for that money you know way outweighs whatever salary and benefits that he would get um and I think that was everything that I had so thanks thank you thank you there anyone else here that wishes to address the counsil we have anyone yes um Paul Weber Mr Weber good evening thank you it's actually Cindy Weber I live in Glennwood section of Vernon I would just like to address um something about the proclamations I'd like to know if we can add a proclamation for Autism Awareness Month um being it in April April 2nd actually was the U worldwide national autism awareness day but the whole month of April is an Autism Awareness Month would it be possible to I'm sure this is a little late for this month but maybe we can add something another we have another meeting we have another meeting in April and I'm sure this is a it's a problem that affects many many very many it's very dear to my heart I'm sure you all know that my son is an autistic child uh he does volunteering in the community when he can um you know we have a big community of special needs population here in Vernon along with lots of other towns I'm sure I don't know the figures on this but it would definitely be something nice to see um we could possibly do something for them give them a proclamation yeah well I I I'm certainly not looking to make something like this a you know a practice of citizens coming in and saying let's make this a uh cause for a proclamation but I think owing to the nature of what we're talking about that I I can't see anybody on the council or in town having any problem with that I hopefully it'll be considered on an annual basis that it certainly is a uh a problem that uh a way of addressing uh children who have unique ways of learning and uh having members in my own family who have experienced had an experience like this uh I I see no problem in making putting it on the agenda for next next month I'm sorry next next meeting make sure y thank you very much Mr Weber thank you for acknowledging that quite welcome I'm sorry um I have Riverdale Public Library okay Mr mlre yeah yeah yes good evening Mr rudo uh my uh comments concern Redevelopment uh as you know the sport controlling instruments that govern tax abatements and here it's number one is what aenda item is this it's not an agenda item oh you don't have development on the agenda yeah but there's no tax with that one where was the ordinance oh the ordinance okay all right I'm sorry Mr cler the Ord right uh yeah it is uh now I'm not supposed to talk about the ordinance no you can I didn't I wasn't sure what what agenda item you were referencing I apologize for interrupting you what Matt Joseph said uh I I don't know where we're at so anyway uh number one uh as far as the tax abatements which go along with the Redevelopment uh and JSA 4020 long-term tax exemption act that's the first instrument the second instrument that you need you being a Township a municipal ordinance title 10 finance and Taxation chapter 11 procedures of tax abatements and agreements enabling the introduction of the tax abatement act number three you need a financial agreement with each entity and number four you need a a specific Municipal resolution authorizing the municipal municipality to enter into a financial agreement with each entity having said that here's a kicker you have an ordinance from 1607 write that one down that limits tax abatements to 20 years now that's one of the uh enabling things that you need that ordinance 1607 so as I said at the last meeting you guys ought to look into your ordinances because you just passed you just passed a Redevelopment plan to an entity and agreed with the entity that you go into 30 years which contes not only the statute but the rules and regulations of Department of Community Affairs and with that have a great night thank you there anyone else yes uh Sean Clarkin Mr Clarkin good evening hi how is everybody good thank you all right I just wanted to mention that after we've done all the research into the mayor's salary it would be really really great if you set the question up as a as a ballot question for the November 24 election and let the citizens of Vernon vote on whether or not they want a full-time mayor at XX amount of dollars or whether they want a part-time mayor uh that would be very interesting to see if you were willing to put that question to the citizens of Vernon thank you very much have a great night thank you there anyone else yes El yes and I changed my name thank you to Brad Sparta figured it out so thank you um I have actually two points I wanted to make briefly in reference to something Mr mry just said about this the tax abatement I I just need clarification or I'm hoping to get clarification in the event that property were sold is there something like a roll back you know like they do for farmland and so forth I mean some an individual could sell that for a gross a gross profit if they've got 28 years left on a tax abatement and and they could uh you know certainly that could work out very well very favorably for them so I just like some clarification on that and secondly in reference to the uh squatting issue you know that each each lease is required to be registered with the township I think it's $70 and I think it would be very uh helpful for the for the actual individuals who are paying this sum of money the landlords to be able to either have it linked with the police department so that they know that oh Ann Larson is renting the property at 123 Main Street not Charlie Jones and at least it's a help when they're trying to if an issue comes up when they're trying to address it we already have this information being given to the town at at a at a price to the landlord why not have it be you know cross referenced that's it thank you so much is there anyone else um um sorry Jesse paladini yes Mrs paladini good evening um I did not have the attention intention of addressing this issue and I'm still not going to State my personal opinion on it however I am both disappointed and surprised that council members and the attorney do not know the responsibilities of the ba or role of the mayor your town code says that the business administrator is full-time unless you change that if you are able to change it pursuant to State statutes the business administrator is full-time as for the mayor's position the attorney said that it is considered part-time from the Township's perspective that's completely inaccurate and I'm wondering on what basis he even said that judge weisenbach ruled in a lawsuit that Sally Rinker filed against the township judge weisenbach ruled that he was satis IED and confident that the mayor's position was full-time and that the mayor who happened to be mayor marada at the time was in fact entitled to full benefits health benefits dental and so on so the CFO even made an inaccurate statement I apologize I don't remember exactly what it was I was trying to write it down quickly but she referenced something that was historically that way well historically the Mayors have been full-time now I don't want to have to say this but I'm going to say it when the three candidates or four candidates rather were running for mayor back in 2011 the reason why people got the impression that the job was part-time is because Vic Mora kept campaigning on the assertion that it was part-time and he would do it for $3,000 you have 30 seconds okay I'm gonna go as quickly as I can okay just try to let me finish repeatedly we said it is a full-time position so as far as overlapping responsibilities they are not overlapping responsibilities between the ba and the mayor and you cannot merge them into one position so I'm going to finish with this I'm glad that you held off making any decisions tonight because you clearly do not have the knowledge and information you need to make a decision thank you but let me finish I have two sentences please okay thank you you are really talking apples and oranges when you name towns and Mayors and their salaries you've got to look at all of the factors and you've got to make a decision based on that but the mayor's position has always been full-time and a superior court judge weissbeck even stated that thank you that's all I have thank you in terms of what the responsibilities of the mayor they're clearly delineating ated in the uh administrative F uh which was adopted when the township changed the form of government and secondly and I I hate to keep going back to this but when you were there when you had firsthand knowledge by virtue of being there and seeing how the situation was handled the comments of the mayor at that time mayor marada were taken out of context the context was that he was comparing his ability to do the job as an administrator by saying I could do this job on a Monday Wednesday and Friday parttime in terms of expressing his confidence in his administrative ability that was the basis for now whether or not you like that type of thing or not that became the statement that was used in campaign literature and in campaign comments you know so I I just want to have the public be aware of this that sometimes what we say in a situation that we really didn't meet it comes back to haunt us is there someone whistling no a police Cara that's where it came from yeah okay I don't think anyone's whistling at us is there anyone else I don't have any other oh Mr D I don't have any other hands up right now until you spoke oh geez Pat thanks Steve D yes bur in Township yes talked about what what mayor Burell ran on and the fact that he could do it three days May said said that I thought you said Morell and I'll resid and I'll take that back um I think Mr Sparta made the most cogent point about the squatters I don't think it's right to put this on the police department the police department have enough responsibility that they don't need to be riding by people's houses while they're on vacation and if they happen to miss something the township going to be liable because they were told to talk to the police I've lived in the same house for 29 years I would make sure that my neighbors knew if I was going to Florida for a month or two months that the only one that should be at my house would be my son who they all know um if they see somebody at my house then they would call me they would call the police and the police immediately come and remove them because that would be IL legal trespass to try to make the police responsible in my opinion just is not right they they've got enough to do without being riding by people's houses when they're on vacation for the for the for the summer so I don't even think that should be considered um I agree that an ordinance is troublesome uh because it does become a civil matter and we'll probably be all over in headline news Nationwide and there'll be a lawsuit against the township which we can go forward so I I I think the best way to handle it is as Brad said let your neighbors know if you're going to be away ask them to keep an eye on your house and if they see something that shouldn't be going on call the police call the owners let the homeowners call the police as far as the mayor situation I don't know why there was discussion about salary that wasn't on the agenda uh the discussion was about full-time part-time I think the mayor knew when he ran what the responsibilities and requirements were it was no different than it was under mayor shortway or under mayor brell um so I don't know who's actually pushing this right now I assume it's the mayor um he knows what he ran on he knows what he signed up for and I'll I'll just leave it at that thank you and I do look forward to seeing what you guys come back with you and Jessica thank you very much thank you anyone else I don't have any other your hands may have a motion to close the floor to the public move moved by Mr second Mr Sparta seconded by Mrs cheer all in favor signify by saying I hi okay members have re copy of the comment on this question I do I do have one quick question for denell it was uh for C International Corp for computer licenses it's uh check number 615 32 what licenses are those for one second oh those are for um Duo so we are required by Statewide Insurance um for the purposes of protection of our computer systems and obviously the Integrity of computer systems um to have a u multiactor authentication and that is for that multiactor authentication okay okay anyone there 61522 NJ mbf yes that's for um health insurance payments okay um and another one 61 541 uh retainer yeah 541 retainer for goshes form is that just a finish up of February yes also too is it possible um I I know we tend to use the same vendors over and over again which is is fine um is there any way that we can um get a list given to us of any new vendors that are on the bill list that we've never done business with before any new vendors yeah company XYZ we've never done anything with them before let me look into it let me see what kind of reports I can run yeah like that can highlight it on this report like could you just even just highlight on this report right so sometimes so sometimes we will set up a vendor like a year in advance oh so I won't necess you know what I mean yeah it won't be now I can run I can run like vendor history history reports let me look into it thank you no I'm okay Jess yes yeah because I'm looking through the builds list and there's always multiple telephone services when are we moving to our new phone service so um know that yet so we would have to go out for competitive contract for that item so I believe we were putting together specs still on that did we have a I think we have a date yet but we were still putting specs together on that to go out for competitive contract and we're also waiting for the fiber to to come at least close to this building so because yeah 61520 $944 for longdistance services that's a lot yep man that goes back a long way I know is that even around still I didn't know there was still in business long distance we pay long distance to call Hamburg ridiculous so but that that's coming to an end soon so hope fix that problem I think you're addressing that aren't you there no you're talking about I'm sorry no the MCI long distance service yeah that's yeah we pay long distance for just calling Hamburg or n right so you're addressing that aren't you yes I am yeah yeah that's part yeah we're waiting for fiber to to to get over here and then then we we already then we can properly spec it out yeah we can spec it out and then um we've already we've already met with with the the CEO of Planet Network and uh and Warwick Valley so we'll we'll see what they uh and they going out a bid on it so it's competitive contract not bid but competitive cont I mean somebody that has a contract will be able no so competitive contract is similar to bid it's a similar process um but the Township's not required to take like the lowest bidder um because there could be other things that are looped into something like phone and network systems that right might be more advantageous to go with but might be more expensive versus another one that doesn't have that option right so um the township has the ability to rate there's actually there's a rating commit comme um there's specific rating sheets that you have to rate and then they're submitted to our qpa Anon not anonymously individually um and then there's an award after that something is published publicly or through the uh yep yeah okay right the reason I was laughing is because I'm in the process of changing residents in town and uh I was going through a box and I had all my credit cards and one of them was my MCA MCI credit cards which I don't even know why I had it I haven't used MCI and I don't know how many collect side so it was funny thank you anyone else all men all council members received a copy of the minutes of March 2024 are special budget meeting minutes may I have a motion put that on those minutes on the floor for I'll make that motion motion made by Mrs bueri is there a second second seconded by Mr Higgins um any additions changes deletions questions no uh roll call vote please council member bushier yes council member D benedetto yes council member Higgins yes council member Sparta yes but obained on March 20th okay that's what we're on now March 20th what we're doing yeah oh you're just doing March 20th I I'm sorry I'm sorry I thought you were doing them all together council president rudo yes motion carries um minutes for meeting uh regular meeting of March 25th 2024 may I have a motion to place those minutes on theone for consideration Mo move by Mr Higgins there a second second seconded by Mrs bueri um any additions deletions comments changes on this particular uh group of minutes hearing none may I have a roll call vote council member bueri since I had I logged off I wasn't there for the full meeting I'll abstain okay council member D benedetto yes council member Higgins yes council member Florida yes council president rudo yes motion carries consent agenda any member of the council wishes to have any of these resolutions separated and voted on separately please advise and I will separate them resolu ution 24-16 a resolution appointing a fund commissioner and an alternate fund commissioner to the New Jersey municipal employee benefits resolution 24-17 approving active volunteer firefighter for membership in the New Jersey state Firemen's Association kurdil resolution 24-18 refund overpayment BL 273 lot 103 mlin Jr resolution 24-19 refund overpayment block 273 lot 105 mlin Jr resolution 24-11 refund overpayment block 345 Lot 2 mlock resolution 2 4-11 participant resolution leap implementation Grant fy22 4 resolution 24-12 refund overpayment block 599 lot 113 core logic resolution 24-13 refund overpayment block 335 lot 17 or logic does anyone have any wish to separate any of these if not then may I have a motion to approve to place the uh the consent agenda on the floor for consideration move by Mr spart is there a second second seconded by Mr Higgins any questions or comments on 24106 whether they members of a union that become Commissioners in their own fund is that it I'm sorry can you say it again the people that would be approved appointing a fund a commissioner and alternative fund commissioner what's what's that all about so we are part of the north Jersey um Med that is the municipal employee benefits fund um it is a Insurance Fund for municial health benefits so as because it's a joint Insurance Fund it means that we are members and we have a controlling interest in that group right so we go um there are meetings they talk about the fund in general and we have the obviously the opportunity and ability to voice our opinion in that so as a member then as a group people here vote for their representative for this year actually what we're looking at here is the uh the Chief Financial Officer and the business administrator is being affirmed as the fund commissioner for the fund year 2024 uh uh until a qualified successor has been appointed and further resolve that Chief Financial Officer is appointed to serve as alternate fund commissioner for the same period uh okay these are these are for the uh medical and prescription benefits as part of the employee benefits program which is effective until 2023 okay that answered my question thank you roll call please council member yes council member D benedetto yes council member Higgins yes council member Sparta yes council president rudo yes motion carries this year we sorry this next uh it is the introduction of the 2024 Municipal budget uh resolution 24114 may I have a motion to place this Budget on the floor for consideration moved move by Mr Higgins is there a second second second by Mr spart uh just as a point of information this budget is not the same budget that was introduced previously this budget is a budget that has been reworked with members of the council and members of the administration CFO and the mayor and it brings uh to the floor a budget that has no increase in taxes this is the third year we've done this first two years first year when I was president and then the second year with Mrs bueri was council president and then last not this year uh it's a budget that uh I think is very very very tight of course there's always people who may consider otherwise but it it relies upon substantial use of fund balance I believe it brings it down into the area of 15% of the budget this is something that I don't believe we can continue to do but I think it recognizes the feeling that the council has the residents of the community that owing to the nature of what's been going on Nationwide in terms of inflationary Trends with uh costs and of course the hope that as we move forward with the various projects that we will be able to experience some relief by additional revenues uh that may be introduced into our uh our budget uh so uh any council members have anything Mrs buer you have anything else to say um I do agree with the sentiments that you Echo that um we definitely this is an acknowledgement of the tough Financial Times that ourselves as taxpayers um are facing and our our uh fellow community members are facing and I'm I'm glad that we've been able to have a budget now the third year in a row without increases however I don't know how much longer that is sustainable with consistent increases um in costs on the municipal side in benefits in products and materials um so you know next year is next year we don't have to think about that right now but um it I think it is something that we need to when when that time comes I don't know how long the 0% increase is sustainable hopefully we will have some um new income revenue streams coming into our Township um you know that's always hopeful and a possibility so um you know that that's a discussion we'll have next year Mr yeah I'm happy to see that we were able to come in with a 0% uh tax increase to the taxpayers will be left with about 15% of the budget in reserve which is in my opinion a safe safe amount and uh the reduction from 4.58 to zero was a result of uh some funds that were uh $600,000 that were collected for from sale of properties and was sitting in a fund so it's been applied and to Echo uh Natalie statement can't do this forever and uh hopefully some of these Reven new ideas do in the future help us out so it's uh three years in a row it's it's a rarity so we're doing our best Mr Spartan uh first of all I think it's important for everybody to know that this is just an introduction and is not going to be uh hopefully it's not the final budget hopefully it's still will continue to be looked at and refined as needed um like my fellow council members I Echo the same sentiments that you know it's very very tough uh in this day and age to uh keep going at zero and I I think it's imperative to uh us as Council and and as mayor to start looking at our other revenue streams that we have coming in and start talking to um some of our um business members in town as to what we could possibly do um to raise some revenues that doesn't hurt the local uh Community member so uh hopefully you know there's some things on the on the horizon that are going to um give us some reprieve I hope um it can't come soon enough um but I I think we're getting into difficult times where you know we can't always be looking at uh going to our our taxpayers to balance our budget and with those times comes very difficult decisions um that have to be made and uh I think we need to look at our Appropriations uh ongoing and see what we can do to limit our our expenses um and our Appropriations um so we don't have to go to the taxpayer uh and Al and also in conjunction with that look and see how we can increase our revenues as well so I appreciate the time that um many council members put in on it uh the mayor and um uh the CFO and and their staff to go ahead and um scrape together the numbers to make this work to have support of of the council so thank you thank you Mr Mrs de benedetta yeah so I'm I'm also grateful that we were able to go with the 0% um I think it's well known I'm not a huge fan of tax taxes so uh and I want to Echo something Brad said about limiting limiting expenses um inflation is out of control and in the private sector we've had to learn to do more with less and I think that Municipal governments should start following that same model um I hope we can do that in the future I also hope for new revenue streams coming in to help offset the expenses and that we don't have to pass this burden on to the taxpayer and I'm grateful we didn't have to do it this time thank you so that in mind uh council member bueri yes council member D benedetto yes council member Higgins yes council member Sparta yes council president rudo yes motion carries thank you before we do don't we need um a public a motion for public for the next one I don't see that on the agenda comment for no there's no comment on this for the second reading there's no comment no reading this is the first reading this is the first reading this is for the I mean I mean for the ordinance yeah don't we need a public comment for the ordinance public oh but it's not on the agenda yes public hearing second reading or45 all right you don't get that special agenda oh my gosh okay yes it I'm having yeah I'm having a flashback forget it never mind public hearing second reading of ordinance 245 an ordinance of the township of Vernon in the county of Sussex New Jersey adopting a Redevelopment plan for the property located in Township identified as lock lock 525 locks 18 and 19 pursuant to the local Redevelopment and Housing law njsa 40a colon 12 a minus-1 at seor uh parentheses 151-161 njsh Route 94 this is the property known as the Ryan Homes property may I have a motion place this on the floor and open it to the public I'll make that motion motion made by Mrs buer is there a second second second up by Mr Higgins all in favor signify by saying I I I the motion carries floor is open for consideration and comment on public on ordinance 24-5 uh anybody wishing to address the council please can vot we have anybody online uh yes I have Sean Clarken Mr Clarkin got yes yes y all right uh I think that the uh Ryan properties project is phenomenal all right that's a great opportunity for the for the town um just I'd like to see it expanded where other properties of this size being located so close to the Sound Town Center also be modified have their zoning modified so that the flexibility of the property owner doesn't have to come to the town to look into developing their property in different ways if we're able to do this for Ryan properties we should modify the Zoning for other properties similar to this in size perhaps anything larger than eight acres and if it's larger than eight Acres it automatically gets this additional zoning so that we can expand the town uh other than that I think it's a great project thank you thank you there anyone else than Mr St again when this was first brought up and there was talk about buying the additional lot there's a east of the Stables I know they North and South but it actually runs East and West there that was mety property and they were talking about the taxes Ed and the the lawyer said we had to treat it separately we had to approve it it was explained that that was going to be an emergency entrance only um I understand now that they look at that as a secondary entrance as oppos to just the one for minerals can you clarify that or has that been changed is that now expected to be a a secondary exit so they can go in either way or is it going to be just a an entrance for emergency vehic Vehicles if the main entrance is blocked because of some kind of a incident fire police whatever you guys know that I the my the comments that I have heard were essentially yours because having a single entrance and exit by virtue of a traffic light which is down near the ski area it creates a problem in case there is an emergency secondly the uh by having an alternate area I I can only guess that the this was discussed with the uh the planner and who would handle this am I correct Mr din right um it it would be I don't know if they've even have they gone for like final site plan approvals I don't know about any that would yeah that would all be addressed at that point at land all I remember is when it was originally presented that was just going to be an entrance exit for emergency vehicles looking at it later it looked like it was just an alternate entrance so they could use e either one I know it's going to be problematic with having their entrance right across the street minerals there's probably going to have to be a red light um there a fair amount of traffic as it is just coming out of minerals in the condos so something maybe to look into maybe the land use Sports I don't know mayor can we make sure that that issue is addressed yeah I'm looking at the site plan here I mean I think it is to to uh an entrance and an exit but but again yeah it's it gets a I have to look back yeah when when I looked it looked like they had changed it to it was just going to be a secondary entrance and exit which was not the way it was originally presented playing guitar attention they would need um NJ doot approvals anyway and then then the land use board would have to get their approvals so and there's obviously public process for that too that you can comment on thank you there anyone else yeah yes Mr get up take your time again Peter and I um I would like to strongly agree with Johan Lin's comments I think uh this development is to our future um I'd like to also um particularly in my role as chairman of the economic development advisory committee uh I think we need to take a a hard look at what properties make sense uh to Zone differently to uh to let a a truly smart uh growth plan could be developed to allow commercial development um the issue about um what Mr dun just spoke about I'm sure this has either been or will be as DaNell pointed out a a DOT uh requirement to be reviewed and applied um the do is very very difficult um to work with um for instance in Frankfurt which I was involved with when Wawa wanted build their property um there was a big hold up by do because do wanted the exit um from Wawa to be directly aligned with the exit from um the Quick Check and this was simply so that uh without a traffic light both both those cars exiting can see each other and know what each other are doing and that that delayed the project for a considerable time but um I'm glad to hear what both Sean and uh Steve brought up thank you is there anyone else yeah I have oams to I hello yes yeah uh good evening it's Tom mcy uh yeah in case you're uh in case you're wondering whether I support Redevelopment plans uh Redevelopment zones no I don't uh what we're talking about here is a golf course and a stables uh horse staes and yeah it's just to benefit uh the developer and to uh give them more money on the taxpayers back uh so no I don't support it at all and this n Hole Golf Course was the former spray fields for Legends uh Sur plant which tells me the Sur plant must be out of order uh and it's also in the flood zone so it'll be interesting to see how they work this one uh and have a good night thank you you yes anyone else don't have any other hands up anybody else wishing to address councel that may have a motion to close the floor to the public move second second move by Mr Higgins second by Mr Sparta signify by saying I I ition carries may have a motion to place it's ordinance on the floor 2405 I'll make that motion motion made by Mrs chei is there a second second second second by Mrs de benad I'm sorry it was I I got heard Mr Higgins okay fine no problem any questions or comments on this adoption is is there a tax abatement on this because it's not defined any place in this ordinance yeah the no a pilot um would not be nothing would be considered okay that's right that's what I thought there was no tax no tax on this no a Redevelopment plan allows you have to have a Redevelopment plan in order to enter into any of those types of okay that's what confusing about the earlier comments and this um this just to be clear too because I heard it a couple of times this um there are a number of properties in town that have Redevelopment plans this is to approve I believe there might have been a change in the Redevelopment plan um based on what the propos the developer is proposing versus what the old Redevelopment plan was okay thank you may I have a roll call no the the development does have issues it'll have to be uh look that there's natural gas pipelines going through the property there's Wetlands there's a Route 94 traffic all the above so it's uh something that I'm sure the plan will be looking at well if they' got natural gas in there that would be a pluck yeah it would be yeah R please council member bushier yes council member D benedetto yes council member Higgins yes council member Sparta yes council president rudo yes motion carries my apologies for the [Music] confusion um public comment may I have a motion to open the floor for public comment moved moved by Mr seconded by Mrs bueri this particular portion of the meeting is public comment on any topic and it's limited to five minutes anyone wishing to address the council yes Mr n hello again uh I first want to congratulate the mayor and the council for this new drafted uh budget I know how much work it involved on everybody's part and um I'd like to as a resident thank you for that effort uh I do want to comment so that people understand that the mayor is responsible for initiating or developing the budget the council has the responsibility of going through it with the fine tooth comb and the mayor and the council come to an agreement so Kudos all all way around um I only remark about that to uh Express part of the responsibility of the mayor and we don't want personally I don't want somebody who just relies on subordinates to prepare that presented the other issue I would like to discuss has just flown right out of my mind I'm sure it was squatting I'm sure it was important was it squatting squatting thank you um this is more of a comment uh might be considered a political comment but how is it any surprise that in a nation that allows the president and our um Congress to allow squatters in the numbers of millions to come and squat in our nation and the second point is I'm very concerned about the issue of home rule um home rule has been a Cornerstone of our history and you would think that simple as something as simple that only affects the residents of a municipality that that municipality couldn't have an ordinance uh addressing that in the United States Constitution unless something is expressly um expressed as being regulated for the responsibility of the nation then it's open for states to to um create ordinance or laws um you go right down to the municipality um it it's just I think one of the many steps where uh municipalities are being controlled from far above and and not locally that's my comment thank you for the opportunity to speak you're welcome any anyone else wishing to address the council uh Scott Castle again from Glenwood uh just a question on the the budget process because I'm just trying to get my head around it um so when we went from what was initially a four and a half% increase down to zero I understand we used Reserve funds but were there also uh Cuts included in that yes is there do you know like what percentage were Cuts as compared to what was using the Reserve I mean I know put you on the spot but I'm just curious how that works it was substantially High the amount of fund balance that was used in terms of the total cut probably in the order of correct me if I'm wrong this right probably what uh 68 about 75% in fund balance 25% in cuts and Appropriations um not wasn't fund balance it was the reserves reserves yes um so there is over $600,000 in um Revenue additional Revenue used from reserves that are not replenishable and um on the appropriation side over 220 I think over 240,000 um dollars in appropriation Cuts okay and and is what is done is kind of a a lineup item review where you look at what was spent what's proposed and we cut it that kind of thing that's exactly what because I remember listening on the uh when there was the budget meeting and the department heads orever they are were reporting it and I know a lot of times they would say you know we don't need any increase here or whatever and just you know I know because I budget a lot it that's a great thing to hear initially but really the question is then if it's okay can we actually cut it back a little bit because all little minor cuts are what add up to a big one it's pretty rare that you can you know just make some huge cut on it um but yeah I mean I'm I'm not one to complain about no tax increase I just get concerned about uh I think previous Mayors would kick the can down the road using the you know just jump to using the fund looked good we didn't raise any taxes which is great but eventually that you know it's G to get us so I'm glad about this year I mean I'm hopeful that you know were included in there so that that's why I had my question but we looked at some lines where there might have been transfers there might have been over budgeting or budgeted and then had reductions that we didn't need at all and we looked into all that to where that came about as well okay thanks you're welcome I'm making up for the last time I missed you guys it's nice to be missed introduction of the municipal budget you guys voted yes what does that mean means it's placed on the floor yeah we have to introduce it by law so that we meet so the vote was just to agree to introduce it it's not the final budget right because there are some line items I still have questions about and it's not theight for that I just wanted to wrap my brain around what what you were actually voting on perfect anyone REM Mark yes um Sean Clarkin Mr Clarkin hello again thank you uh I just want to say that three years without a tax increase is phenomenal all right that's great news thank you very much you're welcome uh one of the council members mentioned that we'll worry about it next year and you don't have to think about it now is the time that department heads should be required to come back with out of the boox thinking of how they're going to reduce their budgets in 2025 this is the time the the budget work gets done for 2025 this isn't the time that we just move on and we think about whatever else we have to do we have to plan for 2025 and make sure that we get a fourth year without an increase and obviously the only way you're going to do that is by being smarter and spending our tax dollars in smarter ways uh with that being said I just would like to go back to something I've asked for several times I've been trying to find out I've been hoping to hear about a Vernon mua meeting where the MUA comes in and tells us what their expansion plans are uh we still I I haven't heard anything I don't know if the MUA has met yet this year we're in the month of April I don't know if they've met yet uh but I haven't heard anything about what the Vernon mua is doing with their expansion where they're running it what properties are being targeted I haven't heard any of this and it's concerning that at some point they're going to be ripping up roads and the Vernon property tax ERS are going to have no idea or have no say in what the MUA is planning to to do thank you very much the MUA will be meeting with the council at a date probably in May it it May 20th May 20th no I'm sorry I thought was May oh I'm sorry you're right May 13th 13 yes five o'clock May 13th joint meeting 5:30 5:30 I'm sorry 5:30 and and what's going to happen at that meeting well when the MUA was formed it was required by the council to provide a written report as to their their operations during the previous year and then to follow that report with a public meeting where it would uh again report its progress so that council members could question or see what's going on um the MUA I sit on the MUA and has been quite active in uh utilizing the funds that were dedicated to it in terms of handling the uh the requirements for uh sge connections and and so forth I think that's going to be part of what's going to be reported to the council at that time questions of course can be raised so excellent okay thank you very much you're quite welcome um Thomas mcre Mr mcer yes good evening again uh first off I just like to uh comment on the budget I haven't even seen it so comments are not going to be too much except uh Mr Higgins was uh right on the money and I have to say Mr sparter was uh quite insightful insightful and eloquent in his observations on the budget describe as eloquent Mr M's wait a minute uh yeah no it's the best I've heard out of the council in a long time but anyway let me go on and rock some votes um in the ordinance that you uh for the redevelop and basically let me drop back there was a side comment from somebody sitting on the side about Redevelopment it's not not about tax Abate abatements um I don't know where they've been going to redeveloping school but in the 30 years that I've been dealing with it it dawnn toon is uh and having said that I'll drop back to uh the uh ordinance you passed uh at your last meeting and in this one you didn't really the uh developer or the entity he followed the uh statutory language except for and this is in uh the pilot the attacks uh tax exemption duration uh Section 8 to Pilots of your ordinance uh they follow the statue except for the caveat at the end of the sentence where it says whichever shall be greater the way that you worded your or ordinance you leave it up to the developer to figure out which fee will be greater and send that money to the Township and here we're talking about the 20 40 60 80% of property taxes uh which is just like crazy I don't know who wrote this I don't know who who looked at this but boy uh they really have to do some schooling there and to send an audit the annual audit to the town attorney what's he going to do with it paper over his windows I don't think so uh the mayor no I mean the appropriate Authority would have been the town auditor not uh and haven't said that uh as far as the Merit position being full-time no I don't think so uh you can make all the arguments you want uh but at some point we have to start uh cutting costs we have to stop duplicating Services here I'm talking about the business administrator and the mayor they both do the same thing maybe you should get rid of one uh and we should have some if we're going to make it a full-time there should be some sort of professional expertise in municipal government they give uh courses on it that should be required attendance and having said that have a good night thank you um Jesse paladini Mrs padini Mrs paladini am I on yes I guess I was muted sorry um first I just want to say um rudo you are 100% correct when you said that Maya Mara's comments were taken out of context secondly I want to say thank you very much to your work on the budget both mayor and councel and I also want to add that I think that the mayor is doing a good job it is such a pleasure to see this mayor and councel working together so well lastly I want to give you a Scenic byway update you will remember that at the last meeting Economic Development Committee Member he lbre discussed um Sally rinker's dishonest and falsified interference with the byway signage that resulted in the wrong signs being put up and a duplication of taxpayer expenses to create the new ones but I am very happy to announce tonight that in less than two weeks contacting the deputy director of the njd T they had already corrected the new signs and the new signs are already up and they look beautiful and the county will be putting up um signs on the county roads shortly but it is with sadness that I want to say that within one hour after that meeting Miss Rinker and her Associates were already ridiculing Ms labre and calling her names in George Nano's group and that's really sad so thank you for the work you're doing and I'm very pleased to see how this mayor and this Council are working together thank you good night good night anyone else Peg Dy M Dy Hi how are you good thank you a couple of clar I'm good thank you clarification questions if I may ask darell um okay you're saying that we reduce the budget by about uh not the budget the reserves by about three million approximately and that's putting us if I'm doing my math somewhat correctly around five million left in our budget in our reserves so my question is what does that do to our rating with Moody and is this taking us back to Mara's time when our ratings were so low excuse me when we were put in a warning I I was on the council during that time and the ratings weren't that low were put on a warning we were put on a warning I don't recall that and I was on there four years D could you EXP it please that we were put on a warning list um so the it was not a warning list so the township um was moved to a uh downgraded Outlook a negative outlook uh towards the end of 2018 that's what I mean because of Mountain Creek that's what I mean andrup and the bankruptcy and and it's and because reserves had been hit by mayor repeatedly we so my question is where where are we falling Now by hitting our reserves again after in three years in a row where is that leave where is that leaving us with uh within uh the Moody's uh ra ra as far as somewhere along the line there seems to be a feeling that we the township is in dire Financial Straits that we are you know going broke that our uh our indebtedness is way too high and that we are bordering on poverty I don't know where this comes from well I've never heard I've never heard that so I don't know where well what has happened is we are working with a 15% uh fund balance okay and that amount of money might be better somebody might like it a little bit higher some people might even say lower I term it as we are trying to utilize our fund balance as smartly as possible statement I've made in the past is that the township is not the People's Bank okay that I believe the people have the right to determine how their money should be spent and if in fact there's a problem and maybe that their governing body comes to them and said yes said you know we we're going to have to raise taxes a little bit we can't Contin can't continue to do it like we've done in the past three years that showing that Financial restraint that we gain the confidence of the community and I'm not going to say they're glad to pay it but they will support that requirement that it needs to be paid now as far as how we handle our fund B the our uh uh indebtedness this past year we paid over reduced our indebtness over $2 million I spoke to a CFO who said what we ought to do is immediately go out and borrow $2 million to avoid having these spikes up and down and so there are ways of handling it because because right now this year we're at 995 I believe 952 952 which is right so we went down to half a point from last year that was almost almost a point yeah that that and that to me is a warning sign that's what I'm saying that's The Rao that's the ratio of our debt to our assets is very low we see differently on this Mr rudo I am a conservative on borrowing and on reducing reserves you are aggressive about it I feel I would rather see small increases annually than a zero budget versus being hit like this year the potential was four and a half percent if you didn't go into the reserves again now next year we're down to about $5 million in reserves what are you g to do then we're going right it's it's snowballing it's snowballing into yes we're going to have to identify higher higher rates we're going to have to identify sources of revenue that we can bring in and we're going to have to be very cautious in our spending this this year to try and generate exactly and my my question to increase our these devel projected fund balance both of these developments that are coming into town are more than two years out you're right so there's not going to be any kind of Revenue coming in for them for two years at least minimum yeah so what are you going to be able to do for next year that you haven't done in the last two years I'm just being cautious I'm saying the red flags are up we've got big issues here and I don't know where you're Mr St I believe you have every right to to to caution the Council on this I don't think we're being overly aggressive this is administrator three years in a row of a zer budget increase is aggressive no I think not reasonable I think it's a question of utilizing the budget and some of the reserves that have been in there that we were able to use you know when you don't when you plan for you don't get a lot of sow that type of thing so I I think million doll hit in one year is a lot I'm sorry that is a lot and I'm just simply saying that wouldn't have happened if last year there had been a a minor increase of maybe one% so what has happened is over the last three years now it is snowballed into that now you had to go to a $3 million Reserve hit instead of a reasonable hit things are not things are just snowballing and thank you very much got to be done to stop this I I agree and I I I'm hopeful that we'll be able to work with the professionals and see what we can do thank you very much I hope so because it's getting it's getting out of control well I don't think it's out of control 30 seconds three $3 million hit to reserves is did we do3 million this year denell yeah yes you did I'm asking denell I believe you didn't use this budget in this budget you Ed $1.75 million 1.75 million this year not 3 million thank you well where then your numbers are not adding up to what you said earlier that's earlier you said3 million I think your time is up thank you okay you can cut me off it's not gonna change I'm not cutting you off Mrs Mrs Dy I'm not cutting you off I'm just applying the same limits to you as we do to all residents I'm sure that if you hav sure that if you have any questions or comments you can address them privately to the the business administrator or the Chief Financial Officer or the mayor thank you good night good night um George nanov Mr nanov can you hear me yes okay my apologies I was not going to speak tonight uh but uh I decided to raise my hand uh at the last minute uh but I wanted to say that uh there's some pretty positive news coming out of the count out of these Chambers tonight uh but with that said uh regarding the budget I think there has to be some caution uh because as you mentioned we have had uh zero taxes for three years and the big question is how long can that model be sustained and I can see what people like Peg distasi and others are alluding to because at the end of the day um these develop these development projects are further out right so fiscally are we going to expect a windfall in tax revenue within the next year uh from those two development items no we're probably not uh so her point is very valid uh what we may see a development windfall from or tax windfall from uh is the sale of Legends and I think that's what this mayor and Council should continue to emphasize uh and push forward in order to rate the ship that's the one big subject that I think is on the minds of just about everybody uh in this town what's happening with Legends what's going to what who's going to buy it and what is going to happen to the back taxes boat uh I think if we get an answer to that uh and if we see some positive revenue and positive development out of that uh then I think we will be in a lot better spot and we're not going to have the same conversation on taxes next year that we're having today uh with that said uh I have mentioned last time uh regarding a point of order uh I heard my name mentioned again and a group that I run uh and you have failed to call a point of order once again uh I'm getting very impatient with being harassed consistently on these Council meetings for a group of people for a group that I run where I allow people to comment including people in this chamber freely okay uh I don't believe in cancel culture I don't believe in uh all those components all right and the people that profess to say one group is a hate group versus another versus another group that's a hate group look at the definition of hate before you start to continue to accuse and attach my name to to something to something that is detrimental to society it is unfounded I will no longer tolerate that and if I hear it again I'm Gonna Act thank you thank you anyone else I have no other hands up thank you anyone in the room oh thank you may I have a motion to close the floor to the public moved moveed by Mr spart second second by Mrs bueri all in favor signify by saying I I I opposed motion carries let's see Council comments Mr looking enough I'm good okay started uh I just want to acknowledge a passing of a sitting Board of Education member uh Mrs Kiani uh passed away yesterday and um I I I did not know her at all but I I have another level of uh admiration and respect for for people who um run for offices in the town and and sit on especially the Board of Education because all of us up here have done it for numerous years and and we know that that's a grind because this is a true volunteer um effort so I know she will be missed on the board and I I thought it was uh she needed to be knowledge here tonight thank you the uh second thing I want to discuss briefly and I before I get into it I don't want to get put on crucified for this but Bo I want to look at our ordinance for public meetings um from a couple different standpoints one I don't like how they're advertised as a uh joint hybrid public meeting um my concern is that if we have utility issues in town or Internet issues in town that we're not able to have our meeting and The Business of the Town stops because of that so I'd like to see if it's possible to advertise it as a public meeting with a virtual option so that way it's not depending on that virtual part of it has nothing to do with silencing the public or anything like that it is solely about moving the business of the Town forward in in a Time when when some of the Town can't can't receive it um the the the second part of of the ordinance I'd like to look at is the public comment portion and again please don't crucify me yet hear me out um two times in the last month I I've sat through um sessions that talked about artificial intelligence and what can happen and the concern I have is the artificial intelligence has gotten so incredibly phenomenal that when we have people calling in from the public and they're not their camera is not on and it's just their name we cannot tell if it's them speaking or not and I have a real concern from a town standpoint and from the person who possibly could be the victim of of an AI attack of somebody coming on with um you know a pre-recorded message that has somebody's name on the screen and they're voice that's talking but it's not them doing it they could go on a an attack that could be very slanderous to a lot of people and that person could become a victim of that so um I'd like to see what the possibilities are of doing that again it's it's to protect the town but it's also protect a potential victim um who that that uh you know calls in um to the meeting so if we can put that on a discussion um next month to look at uh I'd appreciate it thank you for the all Mr dead I just because I didn't say it when I was speaking about the budget I wanted to thank the CFO and the mayor for working with us so much on the budget thank you that's it m b no comments and I have no comments thank you very much for me may I have a motion to uh Higgins second second second second by Mrs bueri all in favor signify by saying I I ition up 1411 get home by halftime here it's 13 minutes left first quarter first half Ryan could you bring those Point attention