yeah she was quite proud of herself every nurse that is a child my first would be y we good that's good all right good evening we are going to call the uh regular February meeting of the Verona Zoning Board of adjustment to order at 8:07 p.m. Madame secretary would you please read the notice of this meeting and call the role just wait one moment there look at that she heard your second thank you for coming the notice requirements of the open public meetings act have been satisfied with respect to this meeting of the township of Verona Zoning Board of adjustment which is being held in person in the ballroom of the Verona Community Center located at 880 Bloomfield Avenue Verona the time and date of this meeting were included in the annual meeting notice posted in the community center and sent to the official newspapers of the township the Verona the Verona Cedar Grove times and the Star Ledger at least 48 Hours preceding the start time of this meeting the agenda and instructions on how to comment will be provided at the appropriate time all meetings are recorded those wishing to speak during any public comment period should only provide their name and municipality street addresses are not required please be advised that should a member of the public choose to State their street address it will not be redacted from this recording Mr Ryan here Mrs Murphy bradus here Mr Matthews here Vice chair Weston here chairman McGinley here and M mcgallen McGovern is here I'm sorry um and we do not have the engineer and uh the zoning officer it's me we're so would you please stand and join me the Pledge of Allegiance IED Al to the FL of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation indivisible with liy Justice for All thank you um since you're new here we'll start with some general information this board deals with the issuance of variances from the Verona zoning ordinance that ordinance establishes specific requirements for the land area in the township and regulates not only the uses permitted but the size of the Lots setbacks required parking signs conditional uses and numerous other such regulations an applicant is never entitled to a variance applicants must meet specific criteria contained in the state Municipal land use law by satisfying certain legal standards of proof the burden is on the applicants to show that they should be granted the specific relief requested depending on the type of variance requested applicants will need to prove special reasons undue hardship a balance of benefits and other criteria these are legal proceedings public meeting notices have been published neighbors have been notified applicants and their representatives will provide sworn testimony and be subject to cross examination any action this board takes at this meeting will be memorialized in a resolution document prepared by our legal council that will be reviewed and adopted typically at our next regular meeting at that time any variances granted will become effective that said we are a board that does its business in a fairly informal manner applicants are sworn in tell us what they want to do with their property and what they are asking the board to do board members will question Witnesses and then members of the public May question those Witnesses at the conclusion of the testimony members of the public may make a statement regarding the application after closing the public portion of the application the board will deliberate and render a decision that brings us to item D on our agenda approval of minutes has everyone had an opportunity to review the minutes of our January 11 2024 meeting yes Mr sure um I will uh approve uh set up for approval for the uh meeting minutes from the Thursday meeting January 11 2024 second we have a motion in a second uh all those in favor please say I I I any opposed any extensions minutes are approved resolutions from that meeting we had two resolutions let's take them in the matter of resolution 20241 uh Walter Alo and Bonnie borgie at West Lincoln that was the house next door to the bank looking to put a generator in has everybody had an opportunity to review the document prepared by Council yes okay if so I entertain a motion to to approve resolution 20 24-1 second okay we have a motion in a second all those in favor I I any opposed any extensions you need a roll call on these all no okay no no okay uh resolution 2024-25 any opposed okay any extensions thank you that carries that gets us to items d and e and brings us to item F new business and tonight the first matter on our calendar in new business is 8789 Fairview Avenue Mr tanero if you uh would be so kind it to come up and stand for a second our Council will swear you in and then you may be seated and we'll talk um notice in order yes it is thank you counselor now we're good to go uh you please raise your right hand do you swear firm to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do please State your all name spell your last name for the record and get your address Nicholas p t t i n p a n a r o okay Mr temp you please have a seat okay as right has Council advised this is um this is the uh expansion of a pre-existing non-conforming use which in our language is a d variance so it requires a little stronger set of proofs than a typical for instance deck expansion or the generator that we had last month okay so if you would be so kind as to tell us what exactly you are looking to do at your property and what we need to do to get you there I yes please so I'm looking to add a garage on each side of the house it's a duplex doing two garages because it keeps everything symmetrical and the house will be the same on each side purpose of the garage is I winter in Florida and I would like to park my car in a garage and it gives me a little bit of a workspace as well just if I can run through yeah um the list of variances I mentioned the first uh the first one is that the proposed garages are considered an expansion of the existing non-conforming use the second one minimum side yards for garage is 8 ft and we're looking at 6.6 ft and 3 ft proposed minimum building separation distance between the garage as an accessory structure and the home as the principal structure is 10 ft we're looking at 5 ft and 88.1 ft maximum mag coverage by an accessory structure the side yard is 15% we're looking at 19 and 20.9 and the maximum permitted garage height is 15 ft both garages have proposed Heights of 17 ft if you would be so kind as to in for the record uh if you could address each of these variances as to why there's a hardship or what problems the land creates for this well okay I see there a problemist the Varian is so so the amount of R that's on the uh driveway where the garage is going to go um we need to be able to get around and the size of the garage I'm putting in is 16 ft wide by 20 ft long so I can get um the cars in there and I would have a little extra space for a little workshop for myself and extra storage um the variance calls for 10 ft from the house but uh there's not enough space to do that and need space on the other side of the garage so you can get by that's why you on the side yards it's mess but it's still in my opinion enough to get around the garage if we had get just keep in mind when we're talking one of the things that we look at is variances go with the land right and while you're okay with it being enough room on the side we have to consider how it looks as part of the whole process of the town and if new neighbors were to come in how they would approach it also okay I don't know what else you want me to say about it that I mean the basis of the um minimum side yard and the basis of of the to the house um in order to fit the garage that I want to put in there on one side you know um we're 5T from the house and on the other side we're 8 ft from the house so that's why we're looking for the variant so it could change from 10 to five leaving five feet is still a sufficient amount of uh a Breezeway to walk through to get in from the driveway into the backyards um as far as the property um Sidelines um it there's still enough room for us to get around the side of the house as far as walking if we needed to but the minimum of the 5T would allow me to even get a sit down mower to come down and through that area um as far as the height goes with the requirement um I'm designing the garages to kind of mirror the house so it has like you know like it's a Victorian house and it has the third floor Windows coming out so I'm trying to mirror that on the garage so it's kind of like when you look at it aesthetically it looks like it belongs to the house and not just a square box sitting in the back um is going on top of the existing driveway so we're not really taking up any uh additional um what's it called impervious ground because it's already there um and it would allow me to do what I need to do with the cars and keeping the house since it's a duplex and I'm you know like to see everything look the same I want the two garages not that I necessarily need the two but one on my side which is the 89 side uh for me to park my car and winter because I winter in in Florida and it'll protect it a little bit more and on the other side just to make sure that everything was aesthetically the same and it gives me a little extra storage too it's a big house a lot of people living in it talk to your neighbors about project uh yeah my neighbors all know about it they all know what's going on I've lived there for 30 years they don't they all know me and did you consider moving this garage anywhere else like to the backyard no I don't want to affect the backyard at all I have a shed back there that I have some storage and I have shed on the other side that we have some storage um but the yard itself is open for the most part like 100 by 100 basically and uh we do have family parties occasionally and get a tent back there but uh it's to enjoy the yard um I wouldn't want to you know impede upon the yard at all it's it's uh it's a very nice place to live and enjoy your family okay let me the South Side you have for three foot proposed what's the distance then between the fence and garage so that's the side of the white Final Fence um that that's a wooden fence existing there and it's my neighbors and we've I think I've already written an easement with him to have it on my property because he needed to move it there's some maple trees there which don't show so he came on the opposite side um I think it's it's a smaller area probably um maybe about you know a foot to 2 foot along that side if if necessary we could switch move the garage closer to the house um because that has a eight and uh I'm talking into that has an eight um foot between the house and the garage where the other side has 5 foot I have three foot on the other side so we could um Slide the garage over closer to the house to give a little more uh distance between the fence and the garage if you deem it to be necessary Mr chairman I just ask a question of the applicant okay uh Mr tanero if I understood you correctly in your presentation the only reason why you're looking for a height variance on the garage is basically for aesthetic reasons that's correct if you if you look at the plan and you see the this is I just make sure we're both looking at the same thing this is the one that I'm looking at okay it should be the same thing right yeah so if you see um the the picture of the front of the garage the H requirement is because of that dorm that's there so if you saw the pictures of my house and in the center of my house is a dormer on the third floor so you trying to mirror the house a little bit so atically it's it looks better no no no no I've also uh walked by your house a couple of times since you fell so I I I get a sense of what you're talking about just from having passed it uh on a couple of occasions I like to I like to walk by the properties just to see what sometimes pictures don't always show you every no I I agree it's a pretty house that's a very imposing structure but as as the chairman said you know uh we like to try to uh you know stick with the zoning requirements as much as as possible unless we're really placing a great burden on you know what you're proposing so if I understood you correctly um the if if we just held you to the 15 ft uh obviously from what you're saying and from looking at the picture you might have to eliminate that window that you have on the top too have to eliminate that dorm that that coming up on the top which would take away from the Aesthetics of the building which kind of mirrors and matches the house that is there I I understand what you're saying but those garages are also way back on the property so you know so in the back but when you walk by you walk down you're going to see it the driveways are pretty wide when you walk by you see right into the yard from the driveways so it' be nice when you look down that you see something that matches the house rather than originally when we just drew like a box I didn't like the way it looked so that's why I made them redesign to add the uh Dormer on not realizing that it would be a height requirement and it's not blocking the view of anybody seeing anything past there so I you sort of you sort of answer I think you answered my next question and that's was when you uh went to the architect okay uh did the architect show you a rendering with the 15t uh roof or that you just eliminated that right off the bat and at that right off the bat because it was just it was just a plain looking garage I wanted something that kind of mirrored the house when he sent it to me I'm like well I need something on the top here I have on my house because I'd like it to look as close to the house as we can um was this property when it was built was it built as a multif family property or was it converted at some point uh to my knowledge it was built in 1920 and it's always been a duplex okay it has has a single sore um that runs through the like the center of the house so it only has one sore line but it has dual water and dual gas and it's a firewall in between okay and they mirror each other the house it's always had one address though that's interesting even though it's got a divide 87 it is too I'm 89 okay so 87 is on the one side 89 is the other side okay thank you just some background you know that one of the reasons we have the limit on the height for the garages is because when you move and the new per will come in we're not looking to have convert Second Story space in the garage to living space it's it's it's not high enough to converted to living space that's just a small Dormer the the uh beams will be like at the roof line will be at 10 foot yes yes I'm not I'd rather have the height inside the garage while I'm bringing the car in this way if I have to work on the car or do something on the car inside the garage I had the height I'm not looking to put an apartment up there again yeah exactly it's only half to you and half to the Future yeah that the house is a family homeall so like I live in it my brother-in-law lives in it my children live in it my nephew so it's a family home that we use um and I don't plan on getting we're we're not asking you to sell it or we're not assuming you to sell it but basically looking at the picture following up on the Chairman's point the you really it's that little Dormer on the top that it puts you not in compliance is that an accurate statement over the window yes I would say okay so if that wasn't there you'd probably be right at the 15 foot level more or less uh yeah okay cuz we're measuring have that it was just like a plain hip roof it probably be at the 15 now at 17 is 2T because the roof on top is is a twoot SE because this is just my own verification so Mr sh I guess the it's the actual little peak of the Dormer that's at the 17 foot level from what I'm looking at the the blueprint here and then actually um K it's the roof line it continues on to the roof line okay if you're looking at the side view above which is number four propos side do do okay okay that much okay thank you you need two garages for sign yeah okay yes drive me crazy um looking at the war PL correctly so it's roughly about an 8ft door for the garage you have four fet on each side so like sort of the Symmetry is also what's making a lot of the I'm trying to keep it all uh centered and the and the door um because you tried to go in because if you try to go in then it's the door is now coming in to hit where the garage is so the Symmetry is also what's causing some more of the coverage and those side variances um making them smaller than probably what they could be like if that 16 then became your your eyes you have to take like 15 or 14 then it starts to become a little bit less on what you're doing towards what uh those variances getting a little closer at least definitely on the North side that you can get towards where that 8T is you're never going to hit the 10t mark so you're suggesting moving the I was just trying to figure out a way that how we can get it to be at least a little bit less some are some other variances cuz we have the one foot that's SP that fence and you don't you do sort of need to push that over because you can't really get in there to do whatever type of Maintenance or painting or anything on the side of that there's just not enough room yeah I have no objection to like pulling it from the fence on the other side but then you know and then and then symmetrically it could be a five- foot and then we would pick up three foot so then we would have the same thing on the other side with the fence so you mentioned you wanted a work area in the garage how uh where do you see the work area would that be at the rear of the rear and the sides I mean you got like four foot on each side so I would have some shelving so I could like store some extra stuff in there and then on the other side probably on the side where the door comes in closer to the house I would put a workbench so I could like you know do some stuff there and if the workbench is 24 in then I have two feet between me and the car if the cars in there um at the time so I could still work and do things and you know being being 20 ft deep I would have enough room to walk around the car as well without um having to interfere okay so the the sides is where you yeah yeah Mr TI you're not planning on putting any utilities in the garage are you like electricity heat um I I I was planning on put an electric so I could use a power tool you know so and put put an electric door in so yeah he no okay no and was it your architect's original plan with the 5T and 8 ft did the architect ever propose right up against the house when I originally talked to my architect we were talking about attaching the garage to the house but the roof lines and the way everything looked it was just not not really feasible to do it that way and it would not look nice at all so um we went back to like let's do it this way and have it be a breeze way so that you know we could walk through I'd like to have it covered but you know it's like it just wasn't feasible the way the roof line is in the back of the house cu the porch just has a roof going one of my concerns is always getting some sort of equipment to your rear yard should you need to do that yeah it's the 5 feet is plenty I can take the snowblower down there without a problem and I have a sit on mower that'll go um down the F feet and even make the turn and go behind it for five feet if I need to get in I have a gate on uh behind the garage as well at the end of the driveway so um I I had my landscaper uh Mark out everything so we could make sure if they had to get back there with their equipment they would have no problem okay and that's that's a level I was I was moving up a level I guess in equipment yeah take a tree down or something I know she several STS so yeah yeah trees I just had the two the two ashes taken down um on my neighbor's side the only thing that would be left to be taken down that's a giant Oak and that's going to need a crane start but the follow up on the Chairman's point which I think is a pretty good one if you had a tree problem in the open area let's there are still a tree line in in the in the backyard am I correct about about that okay so if you did have to get equipment in there even you know a bucket loader or whatever you'd be hard press to to to get it through if you put the two garages there yes or no I don't know well I I mean I'm not a professional taking down trees but like you know the gentleman that I use to take down the trees when he came in to do the two big ashes that were there um um basically no Machinery they climb up they just CL and they cut and they lower and everything was in the driveway and then they would just carry it out and you know get they just topped it and carried it out yeah topped it cut it shut it yeah we just got comments too from our construction official that they actually you actually have a little pond in that uh yeah yes I have a pond um it wasn't the survey that you're looking at was from 2008 so the pond went in afterwards the pond covers about 80 Square fet it runs like a 12T length down to a fall into like a six to 7 foot um pool that's about a foot to foot and a half below ground level so yes when it rains that'll fill up and then it just holds the water and the water slowly goes out on above it's never on any occasion overflowed but um you anticipated my next question because with obviously with all the rain we've been getting lately uh of problem we've uh you know there's probably people who've the just the groundwater itself is actually that's theing you know even if you're not on a a you know a stream or yeah no the only time that Pond's ever overflowed is because someone the hose in forgot about it but it did dissipate out into the yard it didn't it didn't go down towards the uh the structure of your house of what you tell no no no it goes the property goes down towards the back everything everything angles to the back of that everything go to the back okay reced to bring it back I was just wondering I know we a lot of towns have that and that would make this more in conforming what I didn't he you could you if a if if a town ordinance requires that a single family home have a garage like I as I understand it this is a two family house you don't have a two family Zone um so that if if garages are favored um that would bring it more into conformance but you don't have that as a requirement under your ordinance so swing we're looking for ways to swing so the board should be aware if this is a D2 Vari it's not a D1 so the applicant doesn't have to prove that he would be deserving of a new variant to begin with it just you just he has to just show that um it won't increase any of the negatives um he has to just show you the negatives and out the benefits outweigh the the negatives and some of the purposes of zoning may be accomplished courts have even said on a D2 variance that sometimes even just an aesthetic Improvement is sufficient reason so um well this is helpful to me that you're EXP right so I can give you some of the other um other reasons under the ml that promotes zoning purposes uh Mr tenero many times and I'm going to say as far as I'm going to go as far as to say most times when people have um a d variance they often hire an expert planner to be able to um give their opinion to the board but this board is experienced I'm going to read out the list of um potential um purposes under the NL that the board may feel as though fit this application if you so choose so um first would be to encourage uh Municipal action to to guide the appropriate use or development of all lands in the state in a manner which will promote the public health safety morals and general welfare so would it would it uh promote the general welfare to secure safety from fire flood panic and other natural man-made disasters um to provide adequate light air open space d to ensure that the development of individual municipalities does not conflict with the development in general welfare of neighboring municipalities e to promote and the establishment of appropriate population densities and concentrations that will contribute to the well-being of persons neighborhoods communities and regions and preserve the envir F to encourage the appropriate and efficient expenditure of public funds probably not applicable uh G to provot to provide sufficient space and appropriate locations for a variety of agricultural residential recreational commercial and Industrial uses in open space both public and private according to their respective environmental requirements in order to meet the needs of all New Jersey citizens H to encourage the location and design of trans Transportation rades probably not applicable I to promote a desirable visual environment through creative development techniques and good Civic design and Arrangements I believe that that's what the applicant has has testified to at this point um to promote the his the conservation of historic sites I don't think that applies to encourage planned unit developments that doesn't apply to encourage Senior Citizen Community that doesn't apply um uh that would be about it there several others that are more of a and going into scientific or environmental Contex more so would you say then we're dealing with you have to do with completely different types of development so um did you read that one that more or less pertains to the Aesthetics though I just sure absolutely that would be under I to promote a desirable visual environment through creative development techniques and good Civic design and Arrangements all right so that is paragraph I under the ml um promotion of of building purposes if the board is inclined uh to want to note that um in your mind as you're making your decision I'm as their expert no no in my mind that's really when you cut through the very legally uh language of the i in my mind that's essentially what you're asking us to consider the a you know the overall look of the property well yes yes the overall look on it and you know the purpose on I mean if I'm looking in my own to justify granting you that variance i' like to be able to hang my hat on something that's in the that that's listed in the municipal land use code uh so if someone comes to me and say well why did you you know approve this guy building a 17 foot garage I can at least now this is hypothetical obviously but I'm just trying to give you insight into the way that I think about these things yeah and if I have a you know at least if I have something to hang my hat on uh you know and you give me a a good Layman explanation you know and and it's permissible under the code uh you know that that just influences my thought process right I know when the board hears the word use variant you right away you know it's an enhanced proof but I want to remind you it's not a D1 variant it's a D2 variant so they don't have to prove that they have to they don't have to prove that they can have the two family house in the one family Zone they just have to be able to prove that this expansion by including these two garages that they would like has some type of zoning purpose that would fulfill it okay can I ask you a little bit more in detail about the vehicles that are currently on the property and the vehicles that you either travel with to Florida or don't travel with or just understand more about any vehicles or boats or anything else that might be on the property at the current time and sort of what there are four vehicles on the 89 side um at at this moment and there are three vehicles on the 87 side um on the 89 side you know my wife's car would go in the garage for the winter and mine would suffer and the other two cars are my daughter and my son-in-law cuz they live with us and so what car do you take with you to Florida or you have separate I have two cars in Florida separate yeah I'm going to try though and at any time while you've owned to the property have you expanded the driveways at all or they this is what they look like when you purchased the property basically it's what they look like when we purchased the property a few years ago we had the driveways all redone like weay paved resurface yeah we paved and you know um reserved and put proper drainage at the bottom of it so that when the water came down it was there um to disperse the water properly um you know we we didn't make them any bigger than they were they were just basically there and you said you've been in the property for about 30 years I bought the house in 1994 20 29 29 did you get a chance to read the environmental commission's comments I'm just curious on the uh on on on your application any comments on my application well you we we typically you know ask some of our uh other our Our Town officials and our uh commissions that you know uh look at environmental impact to review the plans as well and they provided some comments that I just was I I didn't I didn't um see any comments that I I I saw the only the only comment I saw was about the U um well we got I think we got two we got the environmental commission and the construction commission the environmental commission came in when to be heard first yeah please because I don't think I um I mean I got emails up to Kazo but um that's from July okay let me see this one okay for existing underground storm what they're basically asking is sure design I just I don't see the check okay um so yes when we had the driveways redone um at that time they removed the oil tanks and on each side of the house and then the contractor put the uh drainage from the roof into there and which went into the hole which he made as a dryw to take the water and on each side it goes out to the corner of the yard and flows along the property lines one is going like right by the Big Oak Tree over there and the other one goes on the other side which there's really no tree there um there were the two ashes down the end of the yard but they got sick um I'm assuming they're in good condition when we uh when we do um put the foundations in for the garages will probably be looking at those tanks at the same time to make sure that they can handle in whatever drainage because we do have drainage in front of the garages um so that when it comes down it hits that drainage instead of going through the garage um and that dra drainage will be connected to the existing drainage so that it's will take it to where it's got to go hopefully because we already have on the North side we do have a drainage at the end of the garage which comes down which was planned for the water coming down but on the South Side it just came into the an underneath the uh existing shed which was open for it to run straight through right to the Oak I I think the point that they're trying to make here and you know I think you you've adequately addressed it but it also popped into my head even though you're not increasing the amount of uh impervious space you are changing the flow of the water okay from the you know when when it hits these roofs so in your opinion you don't think that change is going to cause any flooding difficulty or you know water to collect in a different place we're going to collect it uh ahead of time okay and reroute it into the drainage okay so there like a French it will be like a a a drain around the no you have like a seage tank you have a seage tank where your oil oil tank was right okay so then these leaders are going to connect into that seid tank right and then go down your house already and then the seage tank has the Overflow which goes to the back of the yard where the other drainage ties into it from end of the driveway and then it goes along the north side between the property lines which has thank you Paul for asking the question better than a large area that no one uses that's just covered right and at any point in time like back when you had the tanks removed in this had anyone done the calculations to determine how much water was actually being collected and running through this system or this was just to knowledge I would no but okay yeah I mean the gentleman doing the uh driveways and and the tanks I would assume he calculated that with an engineer to figure out you know how much flow there would be but I haven't had any issues with anything um as far as when it rains that the yard is flooded or that the the one side goes into bushes the other side goes into tree and bushes and they seem to absorb everything that's there I don't get a flood in my backyard at all um you know and your neighbors Downstream yeah that goes into their backyards no no but that that's it's 100 feet away from the driveway so it's a you know the yard does pick it up absorb it how long ago was this Mr tempar did you have the just roughly did you have the tank repl at least 10 years ago okay that's that's fine just just so it's it's it's been a while okay and you never had any issue so when I when I bought the house in '94 they opened up and filled the tanks with sand sand okay and then when I got the things for the driveways to redo the driveways okay so it had already been converted to gas even when you bought out yeah yeah um we were told that we had to remove the tanks now right so then it just you know okay change the reg can't SC over them soon as you open the driveway you had you had to take the T I had to take the TX EPA had to come in go okay okay so I hate to keep coming back to the cars but so you so your testimony is that there are seven cars on the property right now seven seven cars on the property right now between the both sides yeah and I mean when I observe the property it looks like you kind of Park those cars far back you don't park them like in the front of the driveway Park them far back like on my side depending like we'll put two cars all the way back going to be and then the other two will be on alongside the bushes and sometimes my wife's call we just pull up in the front of the driveway and just hit the bushes are so it's easier for her to get out um same thing on the other side they'll put two side by side in pack the more along the side but if we put garages back there you won't be able to I mean those the are going to be one car garages yes yeah one car garage so one car will go in the garage on both sides at all times I don't know if you'll use it both on the other side as much as I'll use it winter time I want to make sure my wife's car is protected so that'll go in there mine will stay in front of it um on the side to you know and then the other two will be out because I mean I'm just thinking about what this is going to look like because your your house and it's beautiful you know but it's large and it takes up a lot of the property and and you're you're here requesting approval to build two additional fairly large structures and then to have cars sort of parked in front of that which now they're being parked back there I'm just kind of think like this is look very congested potentially pared um if you look at the plan forches okay if if if you put uh you can put one in the garage and if we don't we put two will be parked in front of that garage when it's not in it and the other two will be parked on the side and it still will not come out uh it'll come out maybe to where the walkway is on the on the porch and that's basically the way it works and the other side has the three cars and that's the same thing the two will be in front of the garage one and one along the uh fence line which is kind of the way it is now you know usually winter time I part them all along the one side so that this way uh the plow can come down and the driveways are wide enough that two cars fit next to each other all all the way through it's just it's such a it's such a pretty stretch of of Street skate in Verona the houses are beautiful they I mean it's just I I would I would hate to see it cluttered up and make it look like an apartment building or something that's my big fear it's one of my concerns with this is I just I would hate to ruin away from the beauty of the house at all I think it'll add to it because ni structure right down how many bedrooms are on each side um originally five on each side um and on the 89 side we just added a uh bedroom in the basement as my mother-in-law sweet sleep in while my daughter takes over to the upstairs getting ready to have chch so six on one 5 yeah yeah it's a big house you know I put a lot of time and money into it since we I've redone the whole thing inside it out just to follow up on uh on I think on uh jev's concerns uh and jenev you can jump in here if I'm if I'm not understanding it correctly uh the you you're you're feeling me that you he's basically taking 20 feet away from the driveway from each driveway from each driveway and and so right now and I understand what you're saying because I've looked at your house a couple of times sometimes the cars are way back in that area where the where the garages are going to be put up so obviously they are going to be if this is allowed out they are going to be the cars are still going to be more visible I I I don't agree that they're not going to be I think they will will be more visible with the garages there than they are now because you can't you can't possibly get them back you know as far as uh well at least one will be because the testimony is potentially one you know one car will always be parked in one garage but the other one may not be used all the time and that's essentially two cars on one driveway so one driveway will not be able to two cars yeah behind the porch so you can see where the porch the existing porch is and from the front of the garage to the back of that porch you you can put two cars side by side there which is probably what would happen when and one one go up car is in the garage there'll still be you can still have two out there and one along the side still not coming out past the walk Lan of the house front of the house and just maybe you know to the front of the porch which is basically you when you go if you drive past my house the cars are parked along the um Hedges and then one is in this as far back in there as we got but there's always enough room that passage out and you don't see the garages as as cring that ability to for them to get out again though no no okay I see also there's a like on Google Maps there's a there's a boat in one of the pictures in your driveway no no no no longer okay my uh my brother-in-law Liv on the other side we were Sailors so we had more than one boat um and he just want a place in Maryland in a uh kind of like a campground on the river and both boats have come to Maryland they're living their best life in Maryland okay yes he goes there every weekend it's got to be an old picture they tend to be that's why I have to ask yeah I saw one on Google was when I was having one of my sales you have aage you should have Mr Tim when Council was reading that list aside from Aesthetics did any of those other items seem to be applicable to your situation um I'm assuming promote the general welfare would be applicable because You' be able to use the house the two garages are Justified because it's a duplex so that General Welfare goes together um one of the other one of the other items they'd like to record this one of the other items that I think Council read was um something Community yeah me it was up to the beginning uh um I guess I was looking to promote the establishment of appropriate population densities and concentration you have we're looking at this as a very big property but it's a very big property that is actually two living units yeah so considering you know a garage for each unit is is not out of the question um and there was one more that could have applied but I'm just wondering did any of them well you know for me the garage is giving me a place with my car it's giving me a place with a storage we just finished the Mother-in-law Suite in the basement so that's less storage that we have um I have my daughter living upstairs with us and now we have all her stuff and my stuff and my brother-in-law is next door and his son's coming in because it's it's a community that we're trying to help each other out and live together every holiday is at the house so we have a lot of stuff so the garage is also help with me with the storage and getting things where I need to um keep them safe you know it's no longer buy a tree and it's out now you buy a 9t tree and you have to save it and it fits into six bags and put come to my house and you'll you'll get you'll get an education and we making a small garage home a lot of stuff I want to put the car in this I know I know just I've I've taken the other approach I have my daughter in the house up the street my brother lives around the corner and my sister lives next door to him in the two family house where my mother used to live with her so we affectionally call the house to calm down you you have population density here to say yeah we do and we we're the head of the family so it's like everybody comes to our house okay so um just because you seem like you General Welfare would be under a and that would be promoting um safety because you would be keeping your vehicle secure in terms of you know one vehicle on either side would be in a safer environment um also uh to promote and esta appropriate population densities what you're speaking of is that your extended families are living together and this allows an orderly um area for both storage and living space so that would be under paragraph e and then the um promoting the desirable visual environment um through good Civic design which is why you've designed it right which would require the height variance but aesthetically would fit with um with the home Giant and perhaps the neighborhood I rely upon the board to know what would fit with the neighborhood um and if you're so inclined to make that finding you should say you've probably described that because the one of the things about a board of adjustment or any planning board is that you're selected because you know the town and what looks good in the town and what fits with the town and the neighborhood specifically and I mean if you look because it also U benefits have to outweigh the negative so if there's any negative impact on the neighborhood the board has to consider that as well I I just like when you look at my house it's you know three stories high and you know every story is living space it's a big house there was a house on the corner where um was a big old house and they ripped it down landscaper built another house oh y and um he couldn't go as high with that house as the original house was because of high requirements I almost one house for for the record I used I lived on cres Hill Road for 10 years and would go to the bus on Bloomfield so for 10 years I traversed that section those are all big houses I remember when the weps knocked down the two houses and built the big one next to the what yeah what do we call them that fuel station used to be the fuel station whatever it's been since yeah yeah um the house the neighborhood from Verona High School to blomfield Avenue is all very large properties very large and are there garages on these properties to the point yes yes okay in cas yeah yeah and in some cases um the weights would have a five car garage the I would say that's the exception yeah yeah there there's a few more that the Yates who live there also have three three well I'm following up on the council's point that if you know if you have other homes along that stretch that already have garages Playing devil's advocate here he's just asking to match really what the surrounding uh homes have you know in terms of uh garage space yes yes I threw you nice softball you did thank you so much I like and I've been the scout master for over 20 years in to get you'd be amazed how many people come in here and think they're Boy Scouts I know a lot of Boy Scouts I I do want to revisit if the board is um back to details if you're moving a garage we're going to need specifics I see I see my friend to the left pen figuring out so are we looking at the garage on the South Side on the south side yeah that def what number house is that 87 87 so that's your brother-in-law side yeah okay and I don't have an objection to sliding that over um cutting the 8 ft down to to even six feet and putting 2 more ft on the other side um another you're not cutting the size of the garage you're moving it moving the garage over um two feet I see what you're doing no no I I you know I can you know does that create another variance it's still variance here still needed a variance sh one place shifting yeah so it would just be a condition of improvement if you say move to it would just be a condition a design it would be a condition that it's going to be shifted it would actually lessen the variance to some degree the sidey but youd have to incorporate that into resol yeah that's I'm trying to get I need specific would I have to submit a new plan no well or when I go for my permit to the building department when I go to the building department okay if it's approved here resolution gets written up and then you go to your architect and we make that move make that to submit the plans to get the permit to do the things we need to do no I think the building department would look at the conditions that we applied to the resolution heard and then to make sure you're in compliance with what on your plans and then you build it that way yes I to my extent I was almost thinking to to match the five on both sides um and this way definitely give you'll definitely have enough room between the fence to do whatever type of Maintenance you would need to do on side of the garage that's being built if that's all right yeah so um house 87 so so we can move at two feet towards the house would give us that space right now it's showing on your plans 8 and 12 ft right fo one and a half okay 8 fo one and A2 so it would then be moved so that it would be 5et why would go six one and a half if and that would give me the three feet on the other side I think um but if you want to go five that's fine that keeps everything's exactly yeah okay so we're going to move this to five so that would be three put block ENT entrance to that gate there the game in am I correct if you gate the show next to that garage swings into the yard into the into the yard yes everything goes in okay so that's 5 six so no it'll probably no you'll still have full you should still have full access into that because that's 5 six right there so we right here so access to that gate yeah it won't block the gate you still have full straight yeah we didn't solve problem no no no we and then there anyway in this direction that you still have solid Dimension there so you can come around the whole very close that plan yeah it's much too close to the fence to do you need them to do any repair on that you know a shingle something like that how would you or just take the fence down or just to clean the stutters yeah okay so we we modified two of the Varian is required I just yeah actually because one Vari is for the side side in the building and the other one's for from the building right okay and apparently the board is a little happier with your garage is being closer to the building and not so close to the neighbors yeah good um anyone else have questions in general because this I realize I'm assuming the audience is not going to question the witness although this be the opportunity anything you want to ask trying to throw me in theast okay she controls everything if there is no one in the public that has any questions of the witness uh we'll move to statements and if there's no one from the public who has a statement regarding the application we'll move to deliberation um if if the board would like we uh we've just kind of moved in the direction of discussing there there seem to be five variances required and what we've done is we've just modified B and C by sliding the garage closer to the house so that instead of being 8et 1 in it's 5 feet away which now moves it from 3 ft to 6.1 away from the property line uh um in in doing so we've you know kind of exacerbated the 10 foot now being only 5T from the house uh however those two went um how about any discussion on the maximum aggregate area covered by accessory structures is supposed to be 15% we're looking at 19.6 and 20.9 in the sidey yard can start generally because I I've been waiting for this but because I I I have let me start off by saying I'm not unsympathetic to your plate my old house was an 1897 house I did not have a garage it was very annoying my new house my current house does have a garage and it's lovely to have one I I think the problem I'm having and I I appreciate that you want to make it symmetrical so it looks nice and and I I you guys know me I am all about things that look nice in this town I think what concerns me is by making it symmetrical we are making a house that while it is a multif family property it really comes across as a single family property and and matches the character of the street my concern is that if we slap two garages in there it now looks like a it now looks like a multif family property and and and I'm very concerned about that that to me is like I feel like it's going to like really adversely impact what what it has two driveways when you look at it and they're both on each side of the house and they are numbered 87 and they are numbered 89 and the entrance is from the porch and it's you know most duplexes um at least I own a duplex in Bloomfield I only owned half of the house and somebody else owned the other half and they could do what they wanted to that half on the outside and I could do what I wanted to my half on the outside so I could make this green I can make this blue which was like ridiculous but this being one structure and being one property and assessed as one property okay even though it is a multi family it's like two single family homes they're independent of each other um the only thing that's shared in in the two houses is the sore line that comes down the center of the house and runs through the center yeah know it's really just I no and I understand still look and look I'm asking you guys to like if I'm being completely ridiculous about this and this is not a concern of anybody else then fine we can move on and we can talk about how big these things are being you're supposed to you know to Mr Tano's point when I looked at it obviously having the two driveways there you know there's more than one you know that that it's it's a multif family unit even though then that's I think it's obvious I think putting garages there if I understand your point you just think that would highlight that more would exacer I think it I think it's exacerbate it I mean look I'm also not a fan of those giant three car and five car garages though either I mean I don't love those either I think they're behemoths um and I I don't love how they look and and and actually let me I don't I'm not sure even the houses on either side of you have garages right now they look like they're older homes I don't they didn't look to me like they have um the the the one on the corner on the south side yeah they're they they don't have a garage they come in on street they come on Lyon the house on the other side has a garage but it comes in off of Kenwood okay so it's like you can't really see it from the street is thatway yeah from the right but you go across the street they all have garages all those larger homes that all go down I mean I'm just wondering like is it really so terrible to only have one garage on the property and is it tasteful looking garage I don't think it would I mean that would make it more in line with an older home that had a garage one garage it's just I don't it it doesn't make sense to me because I have two driveways and it it's it's not it it would drive me insane seeing that I get I mean I get it I'm just aesthetically it's like here's my house garage garage driveway driveway you know if it was not going to be that way if there's no driveway on one side and I just had a driveway on the other side and everybody parked there that lived in both sides I I would say okay but when I look at it and I have two driveways coming down and the way everything is on that house everything is symmetrical everything splits in the middle and is mirrored on each side how can I do one thing on one side and not on that's like all right let's put McAdam driveway on this side let's put pavers on that side it just that would like drive me crazy well if it doesn't bother anyone else I guess I can just keep thinking about it but see F me out of it I'll say I mean I I am conflicted on this because I I totally understand wanting to have a a garage and and even some some of the variances I'm like okay the 17t height versus the 15 like I I don't think that's a m you know a major deal um even the um kind of the the sidey coverage of the requirement 15% going up to about 20% on you know on one side 21 on on the other so like that I don't think is a major a major but it's I mean it's everything it's you're too close to your neighbor too close to the house the structure is too big It's Too Tall like it's and now there's two of them and there's two of them so so I I understand it and I think the way that you have it designed from the you know the aesthetic perspective I I get it but also from the aesthetic perspective um I don't know if it enhances it because sometimes having the open space looks better than having just you know another structure on either side um so that I I am a little torn or conflicted on you know on the the whole uh application here on on the 89 side um down the driveway on the between the two houses are 30 foot trees that run along the whole thing so you don't even see the house there so that neighbor would not even see the garage because there's already the line of trees that are there on the other side the where the garages would be would be um towards the back of his house in his yard that is below my yard so where the property line is on that garage when you cross the fence it drops down um on his side so I don't see that it's affecting anything that he's going to be seeing or doing and those are the two that would be the most concerned about seeing the garages you know um and and you know personally in my well I think looking down from the street it would be aesthetically nice it wouldn't be ugly um you would see a nice Garage in there with a car parked on the side uh you know right now you see cars there I mean I've had boats in there for years all along that driveway you know um that I think was a little more and seeing a garage well to the point that we talked about before though putting the garages there does move the cars that can't get into garages closer up towards uh Fairview for lack of a better way of putting it uh so you're still going to see cars and you're actually to have a a better sight line to see the cars than you do now well the cars the cars are there now yeah but they're farther back than they're going to be not no there's always cars towards the side of the porch towards the front you come out of the front of the house you can see the walkways you want to come out walk out and get in one of the cars right so there's always a car in that area because it's whoever doesn't want behind even if they don't move where they're sitting now now there going to be something solid behind them you know a nice looking garage and don't get me wrong I do I think they're they're very nicely designed I just think there's a lot of just I know you have no intentions on selling the house at this point or even you know go you know stays within the family but but these variances if granted stay with the property for you know per and having I would say a combined 11 bedroom rooms you never know what will happen down the road and I could see someone buying the house and then ultimately renting out bedroom after bedroom after bedroom and now you have 11 cars in here in you know in the driveway and those cars they're not parking all the way to the side as you as you do or in the back or so on and so forth and they are closer to the street so I'm also thinking about kind of 50 years from now what this might turn into as well it does stay with the property complains aate Scott that can happen now when he doesn't put garages in I mean that's that's you know this is a you know it is an outdated concept from the standpoint and it's wonderful follow he said that your whole family lives in there yeah but uh if you went to sell the house say Scott points out and somebody bought it they have to buy it as one piece of property though for what I the current uh yes correct they can't they can't buy either they can't split it okay because every every city town has a different version I grew up in Brooklyn in an attached house but there were two two different owns uh but in this case that could never happen or someone there would have to be a severe legislative uh action to do that yeah D1 VAR I'll tell you what would have to happen you would have to do a subdivision of the lot right and subdivide it in I'm a title off officer I own a title insurance company so you you would have to get a subdivision of the property so that you could sell half to one side and half to the other and have to go through the town town would have to approve Council no okay if I understand what you're saying Council that they would if someone wanted to split it up they would have to come back here variance would be a much higher threshold of uh to get an exception correct okay just want to clear that in my own but it's still two separate households yeah so it's it's no it's not it's one houseing well that's what I mean by household I live on one side someone lives on the other but amenities I have on my side um I want my other side to have the same so putting one garage on one side is ignoring the other side for not having a garage to have the same advantages that I would have with a garage with the extra storage and a place to put one of the cars especially in the winter time so you know I I mean well to follow up on that discussion in my mind I would I would either do both or none I mean that's the way I feel about it you either allow both garages or just say we don't want to put you know we don't want to put any additional uh structures you know on that uh you knowz cuz I I don't see the aesthetically I don't see that putting one and leaving the other one uh open is is really you know is really helping the situation uh and you know I guess the Symmetry argument uh comes into play there but uh and I do like the fact of that Paul suggested of moving them if we did approve it of putting that condition in to make them more symmetrical for lack of a better weight of put in okay have a problem with the height I I don't have particularly a problem with the height given how tall the house is the only way to like produce the covers narrow it and make it Shor I don't know what that does make it useful as garage that's well you could you could just make it a garage for a garage without a a workspace without work St yeah and that would also help you with the setback uh requirements correct be that kind of defeats the purpose of the garage as well because it's for the car it's for extra storage it's for a work area and if I understood you correctly by finishing your uh making a basement apartment and I assume you did all the proper uh paperwork on that uh yes definitely okay you know you know do stuff you you eliminated the uh you eliminated the uh uh you you increased your need for additional it was outside of the house it was already um a finished basement okay um but we needed to redo it um we we had a little water issue um in the center so I had to rip up with the floor put a whole drainage system in and then when we did that we you know made it into a nicer little um bedroom in the back I put an extra bathroom in with a shower for us so does the the basement not that side of does that stand both sides of the house or just one side one one side there's another basement on the other side okay so one is finished or both are finished only one is finished only one okay and and it comes out into the backyard okay to the point about the height I think the Scot I if we approve the garages I don't think the height is a problem because I think it does look from the drawing renderings it does match more of the architecture of the main structure by putting the ad Dormer I guess in that in that area that might be the easiest one to you know to improve I'm not I'm not a fan of having your house go from property line to property line especially if the house next door is 5T from their property line their house is already there at the property line and that's a little that's a tiny property for fa View Avenue we talking the uh house on the 89 side um on the North side north side yeah they had a variance to get to uh make that house that wide and encroach on that line that's going to be all l especially if the trees that are there it's going to be like end of the house trees and next house looking at the lot map virtually everything on either side of this gentleman's property is is a non-conforming lot if I'm not if I'm reading it correctly in terms of they would literally have to come anything they wanted to do they would literally have to come for a variant because they're very narrow uh and uh you know they're probably On's on Fair VI yes if I'm reading this correctly and correct me if if I'm wrong I'm looking at I guess the lot that's numbered 51 and the one that's numbered one uh it's an interesting little one actually has an L-shaped piece of property there I'll pull a FL by way but yeah but the garages would be somewhere uh towards the rear of those properties am I reading that correct you know I guess 48 and two 48 on right Len and two on Ken right yeah they would be in the rear because if you if you if you go down Lyon and you sort of look into the driveway of the house that's to the sou M you can right now see the back of your porches that are on your house from their backyard and this garage is going to basically line up with the end of that right sort of close so I guess this would be visible from this the one garage on the South Side would be visible from this the other Road House 49 is and cious covers on that house is the entire walk between their driveways that sing in the backyard so but between 48 and 49 going down the there is a a a tree line uh going pretty much down the entire side yeah but I think the problem I mean that's nice in some respects but I think here it exacerbates proud I mean on the one hand it's good for the neighbor right that doesn't have to see the garage that's right up against the property line but from the street you see house trees something that looks like a little house I mean it's just it's a lot in a small space you know I mean it's not what I think that street is kind of known for when I drive down that street it feels big it feels spacious it feels you know different than a lot of the other streets in the town you know you mean Fairview or Lon you're talking about I mean I mean that's one of the nice things about the street you know it reminds me I grew up it reminds me of mous you know because they they AR a lot of streets like that in um it's not shrinking the property property's still there the house is out in front and you still have the 20 foot driveways on each side of it that you're going to see on the street I'm not unsympathetic I just I'm really worried about making this look like an office building A really tasteful office building you know a really beautiful one I just I just store of multi you know like a big complex I don't know that's what they're building across the street here yeah we we did nothing you had no say and we're not governed by a lot of people think we're governed by President which we're not I think I mean we might take that into account but we're not uh it's not necessarily the number one factor that this board considers am I correct Mr chair absolutely thank you each property is considered individually for the uniqueness of the land that it presents it's a shame because no one variance would present that problem right no one variance would present a problem combined you just can't get any leverage to to clear you can't get enough room on the sides you can't get enough room between the house and the the auxiliary structures even between the so it's going to be like five foot from the house to the garage and then 5 ft between the back of the garage and the shed it's not going anywhere like it's just a l a lot of stuff I would much prefer to somehow see them see put a garage like in the backyard it's a big backyard I know that's not ideal when you live in backyard but I it's just you would prefer to see the garages beyond the fences but still you would still see it from the street it would only be another 15 20 ft back I know just it's a lot it's a big house on a it's a big property the house property there a big line and putting two more structures on lot all right well that's my issue my issue isn't going anywhere I'm going to keep thinking about it but I guess we should figure out if there's anything else about it that bothers us at all and if not um you okay who's going to cut the gordian that me kitchen back here okay just don't talk don't I think that was a challenge it's really a shame because it looks really nice and if those houses on the the two lots on the side were another 10 ft away the one on the uh lyenna side yes the fence is there but it's like a 10t distance between the fence and the house that used to be uh a drive way that came down and he still has the fence that comes around with the gates so that if he wants to convert there's still a driveway apron there so uh you know um that house is further away from my property line right that's not concern it's the one on the be there's already the trees that are there I think that exacerbates it in some ways because when you're looking at it it's just everything is there everything it's it's where everything's right on top of each other but I also I mean I I also am sympathetic to the fact that they got a variant and and built you know towards the edge of their property and they are not here to complain oh yeah no they're not complain for the for the for the record I've I've talked to my neighbors you know every everybody's like yeah whatever they understand what I'm doing you know they have no complaints about anything just they said we got to let letter from you twice nice letter% to to put it on record there are no um members of the public uh in attendance so so they're not objec we have to give them a chance to tell us why they don't want it and obviously they're not well I'm BL that the I mean it's clear to me from this map that many of these properties at some point were subdivided two smaller houses were built and that being the area more dense and that's what's happening here this is just making it a little more dense um I just think it's a shame to make it that's one of the more redeeming qualities in Street well you know my my opinion is it because the garage is all the way in the back of the house it's not if I was putting them up in the front if I was putting them in the front I would agree I would say you're seeing house garage house garage but what you're seeing is you're seeing a house a long driveway with a garage at the end of it a big house and then another long drive over a garage at the end of it it's not I don't think in my opinion that it's making it dense you know it's still making it the same when you come across the street you're still going to see the driveway the house in the driveway mean you look down the driveways now you see two sheds so you still seeing something back there said they a lot shorter they are but they won't look as pretty as was they are pretty I agree to make it look such a beautiful place bre condition that no one is ever like no one can put a Breezeway in can do anything like that you I think that we can do can we I believe we can do that if we were to condition that these which remain freestanding you can say that but in the future somebody could come back to whatever board sitting here and ask for relief of a condition but it would make them M to come back so you can make a condition because that's directly affecting the land it's not like some obscure thing like you know for some you know based upon something that can't be defined but that would mean that them or somebody else could come back and make a request for it um but they have to go back I mean they would have to come back to a board and present their reason and assuming that the Zone isn't going to change it would be again not only reling condition but it would be another D variant we are in the process of we doing our master plan now too is we get so they could change but that's not for us to consider tonight I guess but right it's not existing right now but for now the way that the Zone exist your your Zone plan exists you don't have a multi you don't have a two family Zone you only have a single family Zone um and you could add that as a condition if that if that helps you um you make it you you think that would be a permanent condition for Aesthetics or whatever you know fire safety or whatever the case may be oh you can smell wood burning up here I mean REM you can actually move thear one side back the shed wasn't there this we take yes then you're extending the driveway back forther to help the house folks is anybody interested in moving this application along we should um the south side we making motion to uh yes one thing that I'll request is the southern garage closer to house number 87 um move that 5 ft from the house to increase the um uh sides yard setback from 3T to 6t 1 and2 I also want to add in one of the comments from the um zoning department because of the storm water situation that we keep doing where with the storm managing to exemp since there no increase but they want the connection of the piping they want uh however the applicant uh proposes Tren strains with noted connections underground uh Connections in the pipe sizing and alignment with the location size Etc the storage is number two or number one recommendation conru yeah okay so that would be that okay storm order management yes okay must where it says S motor management is exempt however the applicant proposes trench drains uh the connection pip and size type in alignment is not provided uh the drainage aspect of this project will require engineering you so your your condition is that engineering review the applicate must have been for engineering review okay a good and abide by the recommendations of the town chief engineer as he so find your yeah yes noting noing no no use as living space yeah how do that let's say the town like M Flair recently voted to allow small access structures prod as you know uh or whatever they call I mean it seems to me like something like this would be right to be I mean now we have four families with four separate households living on a there is a there is a this is maybe not the S about it but there is a um significant discussion going on in Trenton about trying to uh create more living space for elderly parents and people of needs to like pods and there there is a lot of chatter about mandating um that garages and things be allowed to be trans it's it's I don't know how far it's going to go but there's discussion so some towns May pick up on it so if we make that I guess my point is were we to ever enact an ordinance that says you can do that and we put in this as a condition no living space the the ordinance would override the condition but for now there are still people that will make an application or try to get away I'm not saying you're would get try to get away with using their garage's living space and if they get caught you have a condition saying that you you know absolutely can't um and then if they want to make that application it's another hurdle that they'd have to come to the board to make that request I mean I don't mind making burd of unfair if everyone else is going be allowed to use their garage and fine I I I don't want I just I not that it's fine I don't want to make I don't want to put extra burdens on it it's just something to consider it would be over overridden it would be preemptive that would all get tied in I believe so with the affordable housing issue and maybe if a town has a shortage of affordable housing units and they may go to the the quarter say well the only way we can meet your definition is to allow for these granny flights and the we we're we're booked up otherwise and this is not this is not Beyond a realm of possibility this has come up in discussions that I've participated in uh when we talked about fulfilling our affordable housing obligations now that other Council can change that but right now uh granny flats for lack of a better terminology is not uh on the you know on the agenda because we've met the requirements now in 2025 when the next round comes due and they come up with a number God knows what that'll be if we've run out of uh buildable space theoretically the court could I mean to I think the council's point you know the legislature should say well in order if you if the only way you can meet the number is to change your ordinance to allow these auxiliary structures for lack of a of putting it to be converted to uh living space that that's a hypothetical though I mean you really I also don't think that's the only way it comes up I think eventually housing to skip so high that there's public pressure to simp say I want to stay in the town I've lived in my entire life and I want children live in my house and I want to live in the backyard and if enough people stay that well well that's that's affordable housing that's that's what the issue is okay I just wanted to kind you want another condition about the Breezeway yeah I definitely I no breezeways no connecting to the house uh I don't want it to all become sort of one giant structure um what about Aesthetics do you want the color of it to match yes I if you're going Sate difficulty you may but the next guy who owns it may not that's that's true that's true we're waiting to um paint the house and do some repairs that need to be done um to uh quite honestly you'd be better off if you paint it on the same color as your neighbors so it look like it yeah yeah well I have some termites in the front porch too I have to take care of don't extend the P that's the next project but I I don't think I need uh permits to repair not to repair not to repair however youg L you'll see two repairs under under construction now that are slightly bigger than what what was originally planned yeah can't wait to get my rocker and go sit done with those conditions we have motion no I'm I'm okay with those conditions what material your house have is it wood yes it's all wood yeah no no we shingle yeah okay we had a we seem to have carved out a motion to approve the variances requested as amended and we have count I was to seven or eight we started going crazy six okay we have six conditions that are included with that uh with that motion anyone need anything clarified just for the record yeah it's okay with those conditions yeah yeah I don't have any problem with that all right then you have a motion I would entertain a second I'll second it MO a second this one does require a roll call vote here we go Mr Ryan Yes Mrs Murphy BR I'll Mr Matthew yes Vice chair Weston no Mr McGinley I would say no by my count the motion did not pass why not you know I mean I don't understand why know I I mean I'm making it better um it's better for me it's better for the area um it it makes everything more liable it increases taxes in town um the purpose of the garages is to help servic me so that I can keep my cars and have a place to work um because I I take care of my whole family everybody's lives in the house and we have a lot of stuff so we need extra little storages and this is the purpose of this G is coming up I mean you know I'm a little disappointed I mean I was uh told early well not from here but when I first started um all I had to do is draw on a survey and send it in there be no problems putting garage up but because I'm non-conforming and pre-existing that I had to go through the board in order to get it and I I I was honestly led to believe that it wouldn't be an issue and uh I just can't understand why I'm being turned down I don't see a valid reason in my mind that you're turning it down um so if you could explain it to me you know either one I think when we started I have a good deal of experience going past the property and I have a problem with properties that require so many variances for and and create an un a situation where we're unable to fix it you know there there's no way we can't move the garages close enough to to the house far enough away from the property line far enough back um it's it it creates too many variances to make it acceptable I also have concerns about properties that go from property line to property line without allowing ample space in between the properties so that's that's where my reasoning was I disagree you I mean I can't do anything unless you guys approve it okay so like my options are what do I do now I need something there okay what you can do you have two options you can file an appeal which has to be done within 45 days it's something called the prerogative right has to be filed in the Superior Court down in nework where you make your claim that the board's decision is arbitrary capricious or un reasonable that would be the standard that would apply to the board's decision if you wanted to to attempt to overturn the board's decision again I must remind you it's a short time limit the time limit begins to run from after the resolution is prepared memorialized and then printed in the newspaper so you have a little bit of time it's not 45 days from today but it would be 45 days most likely from one month from now and whatever time that it gets printed I have the land use attorney to represent me that's the one option that's the first option the second option is that you speak with your architect and you downsize the application to some degree and come back with something substantially different perhaps and I'm not saying that it's it's not my decision it would be the code office's determination as to whether it's substantially different perhaps you come back with a request for one garage in a different area or a different size I understand that that's not what you want but that is that is another option to make another application that is substantially different than this one you can't come back with the same application because this board has already decided so your options are an appeal and the superior court or a different application before the port I mean I could also put up a 10 x10 shed at the end of the driveway and need no permits or no permission to do that because it's less than 100 square fet and that's umal actually it wouldn't be I think you need's Z per yeah to put a shed up yes MH I have two sheds on my property there's a limit to the number of sheds you can have on the property according to the zoning laws just now I have to go get an attorney and come back and ARG this because you know it just thank you all right back to the agenda yeah okay back to the agenda votes um we are going to move to Executive session item G okay so that's be a motion to go into executive session and then we go off the record and then we come back on the record to make a motion to adjourn the public meeting so um can we figure this out I'm sorry okay and then go back on so make the motion executive session okay discuss hearing none did I hear a motion to ajour I did yeah you did okay I make a motion toour I do we'll stand adjourned at 10:38 p.m. okay funny story C tells me that how is leaving and I said oh okay good so for whatever reason I forgot the date she was leaving I called up Kathleen maybe a week later and the they answered the phone and the voice at the end of the phone