##VIDEO ID:e5wx-_mtBDY## this regular meeting at the Verona Township Council for the 21st of October 2024 Madame clerk would please read the open public meetings act and statement the notice requirements of the open public meetings act have been satisfied with respect to this meeting of the township Council the meeting time and date were included in the public meeting notice along with the public internet link and telephone call in information said notice and the meeting agenda was posted in Municipal Building s the official newspapers of the township OFA City Road times L leder at least 48 Hours proceeding with thir time of this.org meeting a public comment period will be held in the order listed on the meeting agenda and instruction how to comment provided at the appropriate time thank you madam clar call pleas councilwoman Holland here councilwoman McGrath here councilman Roman here Deputy Mayor pres mayor Toro here mayor also present tonight is Township attorney Brian alya Township manager J Aro Deputy Township manager Kevin myself clerk Jen thank you would everybody please stand for I pledge allegiance to the the United States first on our agenda this evening is the mayor's report so I'm be uh brief as possible for everybody it was a pleasure to participate um with the truck loading for the brona fights hunger week there was a massive amount of food that was provided both the Episcopal Church of the Holy Spirit and human needs food pantry of Montclair so thank you to everybody especially the Girl Scouts for helping to load the truck at our volunteers and the junior Women's Club for their amazing work it's just truly exceptional just said that day it really symbolizes what it means to be part of the community like Barona shortly after that the council uh dedicated the new sign the beautiful new sign at the intersection of Bo Avenue and pton Avenue that was graciously donated by DCH monair Acura um so it's a great spot we also have brand new flags up there because when you stand near those flags you notice that they're a little old so as of this morning we have beautiful new uh New Jersey us and Verona Flags uh I have the honor to present an award at the Verona Festival of bands which is another great Community uh activity that happened this weekend um and it's always pleasure to see our home uh Band program present they're not in competition at that event but they did an amazing amazing amazing job as well just before this meeting we had our Italian Heritage Month flag raising that was sponsored by Ron Uno and it was a real pleasure to do that uh Ron Uno is an amazing organization that give so much to the town in addition to celebrating Italian Heritage they provide assistance to many people in town regardless of the On's Heritage or culture um second to last this is our last meeting before the November election so please vote if you have not done so already um big election coming up and finally I want to thank the Arona fire department rescue squad Police Department Ro management office DPW construction officials office um and all our mutual Aid Partners the town had yet another building fire today uh before this meeting um in the the Wayland section of town and uh it was a it was a quick stop uh um but there it's going to be a long time as far our best be there because of some complications uh but they they did a really amazing job I was able to to stop in help with management matters and speak to the homeowners um and they're in good spirits so uh we do things quickly and gr and we support our community um so once again proud of all those organizations and services so we have some fun things on the agenda tonight including plenty of recognition which is what I love so our first first we're going to do our softball players um so the brona 12 summer travel softball team went undefeated this summer with a record of nine and zero which is amazing uh the girls accumulated a total of 74 hits including seven doubles five triples and two home runs they had an impressive batting average of 411 which is amazing um that's better than our professional ball players for sure um even ones that make like $30 million in a Seas so there you have some good Futures coming up ladies uh they had an on team base percentage of 584 they accumulated a total of 73 walks against only 34 strikeouts they stole a total of 87 bases but a 96% success rate while scoring a total of 113 runs which is amazing as well our pitch raise your hand if you're a pitcher pitchers never get any credit right so uh our pitcher struck out 61 batters over those nine games well walking 37 and only giving up a total of 37 earned runs and the defense committed less two errors per game or a total of 17 errors on the season Computing to a Fielding percentage of 881 uh which is another impressive statistic despite the fact that we have these amazing statistics I celebrate and I think we all do up here um the things that we can't quantify on paper the the teamw work that you all put in the strength and personal commitment you put in doing sports in multiple Seasons all year round is busy for you for your parents uh a lot of rides and a lot of time management um you all work together as a team you listen to your coaches to really improve you would not have had this success without desire to grow in that mindset that's so important in everything that you do um so I I congratulate to have of the township I want you to understand that your accomplishments is an accomplishment for our entire community in a place like Verona uh something that we can celebrate so we're thrilled that you're here this evening and let's give everybody a round of applause for the maybe at some point one of you can teach me how to hit a ball with a bat and then we'll be all in good shape um we have certificates for everybody who participated um I'm going to ask for the deputy mayor's help and handing these out and the entire Council wants to come up everybody when we call you up just kind of fill in behind we're starting to get pretty good at this so all right when I call your name come up we'll shake hands Deputy Mayor will give you your certificate actually let me I think I read all of that yes all right everybody has a certificate um first up at number 24 Lucy Caruso that is a good handshake by the way that's a hard one to Hard One to beat Zoe Dilla zo number 27 number 13 Mora field she couldn't make it uh Mora pretty heavily lobbied me for a dog park at one point I believe so she she's had her Civic involvement uh Olivia Lee number 11 number 44 Caitlyn Nan uh number 17 Victoria malva number six Sophie patr number 18 Ava schacher number two Sienna Spina and number five Addison Venia and we must also recognize our coaching staff and it's quite a coaching staff here we have certificates for you all as well uh Vincent Spina coach Spina uh assistant coach will Caruso congratulations coach well done assistant coach Dave field sir assistant coach Joe Dilla we'll get his assistant coach Victor malva an assistant coach and frequent guest at our Township Council meetings with his maroon kicks Paul patran all right now because of hype things we're gonna ask you guys to step forward we're gonna get around behind [Music] in standing on TI to back here for sure one more everybody keep smiling that ready wait a second I get check's I have it zo zo I have it I have it you won't find it rude if you don't want to say do you want to hear about our veteran BS you are welcome to stay because that's very exciting I got theying for the door dropping off so I'll be back in five don't now back to our original programming thank you everyone for joining us again this evening uh it is a pleasure to recognize the our brona veterans banners program uh that was the the brainchild of our Township manager uh Mr TCO was a combat Vietnam veteran we the ver Heroes program originally started uh with Rob Caruso who is a retired special agent with the United States Secret Service and an amateur historian took an interest in recognizing the fallen in Verona the 44 Verona veterans who either bravely lost their lives in combat or while otherwise serving an active duty uh the 44 veterans participated in some capacity in either the Civil War Vietnam World War I or World War II there's still a website that you can read all of these on as well um at part of the the banner project the township solicited residents Partners the donate to a trust fund to support the Hometown Heroes program uh the township work with a veteran owned and operated company military tribute banners to design the banners which will be displayed yearly until they reach the end of their lifespan uh the banners will be on display on November 1st so we look forward to that um I would would like to thank not only Mr dico but confidential assistant to Mr diarco Chris G uh who was instrumental in this process as well as our extremely energetic and professional summer intern greina Mel who we say is the chief of staff to the council for working closely with the administration to get this project done so let's C it for our staff so I'd like to recognize the um all sponsors and then once we've done that we'll call up the sponsors who are present to come forward like we did with the with the soft players that works for everybody um our first sponsor Mr Joseph Dio our Township manager and US Army veteran Mr Mrs Pablo Graham uh grown a residence and loving memory of Thomas Mulligan of US Army Waste Industries which is the townships waste and recycling hauler Bell engineering our tach engineer the Verona PBA uh and we'll call up I B saw detective McGuire earlier um Brown and Brown are insurance broker and um uh R management broker nle engineering the engineer for the ever field project Mark DTI who was a veteran lennium strategies the Tona grant writer Katherine falcon they on a resident American wear Dean D Filippo who provides DPW gear and clothing to our staff PF Connor Davies and Dave Ganon who gets to be here for yet another meeting in two meetings are are table edit are in a great supporter of many things that go on in the township veteran Mark Kaplan veteran Kevin Ryan and mayor amus of the township of Verona and Annette Heyman uh who is also a resident of Verona as well so thank you to everybody who sponsored a sign a banner I think it's going to be a beautiful addition and we cannot recognize our veterans enough um and in Verona as a small town we are we recognize everybody's contribution not only to the town but our Greater Community um and it's this is going to be a very special display that we have and one that can live on a fortuity as to remember everybody who participated um I invite everybody to our annual Veterans Day ceremony which is held at 11:00 a.m on the 11th November so please join us on the steps of town hall weather permitting if it rains we'll be inside uh inside the lobby downstairs but Town Hall but please join us it is it's always beautiful Ceremony this time I'll ask the council to come on down and we will distribute to those who arej all right we're gonna we're gonna we're g to do this correctly we're gonna be good all right from American wear [Music] Filippo mayor I'll give you all right from Bosell engineering C of engineer Peter tenkate Pete Travis lock from Brown and Brown is the best R yes here the uniform pretty good Joan and Mark deun thank thank Mr Joseph dioro hiding he's actually here look at this Jo you can keep that all right uh cam Falcon fall Mark and Ellen Kaplan we're gonna we'll stay up here for a thank you so much [Music] Anthony C from NE engineering thank you Dave Dannon for p Conor David detective Bobby McGuire from the Verona PPA thanu the president PBA thanks thanks thank you thanks Bobby and Glenn cerella from Waste Industries we have Kevin Ryan as well and B Ryan I got but I didn't miss anybody right all right now you guys can't take the pictures let's bring up Miss G and Miss Mel come join us up here please come on Chris let's also um make sure that we ourselves by height why don't we put the council around the back sure H yeah well let's make sure everybody everybody else wants to come to the sides as long as security we got come on the side Jo us it's okay all right at this time I'll ask Mr J CRA or on to come up go 9 and0 I'm not a veteran have a golf course day you're well let's put it this way it's always fun and enjoyable come to Verona enjoy my wife wants to know what I do on Monday nights but I come to can watch TV and C um this coming weekend again October 26 at Brookdale Park we have strut your mut from 9:00 a.m. is registration 9:30 is the parade and Boards afterwards rain date is Sunday and on the same day uh at Grover Cleveland Park registration 1M parade is 1:30 and just in case there the rain date could use the rain but it's on Sunday also and and October 31st is Halloween and at our Zoo we're having an open house it's $5 emission and it starts at 4:15 there's parad 5:15 6:15 7:15 candy being given out Etc uh the last submission to the zoo is at 7 p.m. so it's a great day lot of candies it's a safe holiday and that's what we look for watch your children more than anything else um and there's a new event for me and I have never been to this road to Wellness mobile health fair and I was reading over and it is at Sunday November 10th from 11:00 a.m. to 5:00 P PM in Branch park at the charry blesson welcome center and it's a public health event they're going to have mogram uh mogram screening papsmear screening prostrate cancer screening stroke and diabetic uh risk assessment HIV and STD testing dental and oral health education and an array of other things to that you're having a washer and dryer service and a fresh produce Farm marker so please come out it's a wor wild day to come out for your seniors or for anyone who needs testing uh like I said it's Sunday November 10th 11 amm to 5:00 pm at the new Char Blossom Welcome Center uh between hel Parkway and midle Street uh it's really probably across street from clar Moss hospital within the park um and finally we're getting to that time of the year it is let get so I have it in front of me Holiday Lights we're getting ready so the first opening is Friday Sunday November 22nd to the 24th then again Friday November 29th to Wednesday December 4th and then full-time Friday December 6th to Tuesday December 31st it will be the zoo will be closed on SE September September December 24th and 25th so we're gearing up I know they're putting them up already we bought some new trees there's a lot of new additions so it's an enjoyable month of December and hopefully everybody's gearing up for the holidays the last thing which was a reminder is like you mentioned mayor early voting it will take place one of the locations is the Verona Community Center which starts this weekend Saturday October 26 through Sunday November 3rd the hours are Monday to Saturday 10 a.m to 8:00 pm and Sunday 10: a.m. to 6: p.m. uh if you haven't voted already please go out and do so get your V by mails in if they came to your house please do so it's very important whichever side of the aisle you're on but come out and vote anything from the mayor and counsel any question counc Roman uh just a thank you to the county um I had to get a last minute mail in B due to some travel and the county clerk's office and board of election staff were incredibly helpful and we're serving a large number of people that were in the same boote down there which I wanted to say it's a very efficient process and they're there to make sure that everybody understands and is able to vote so just wanted to thank the county for those efforts thank you very much uh I've been down there quite often my wife was down there voting by mail so uh I I agree with you very efficient and all three offices do a great job yes uh and they still may be looking for people to work the poll so you can contact the office of the superintendent of Elections so uh somebody's looking for uh a job on Election Day but they're also looking they used last year and I don't know if they're using them this year is a lot of uh High School seniors who can participate so it's a great you know Civic that you get out and you get paid for this Kieran has run a robust program in that area wonderful anything else all right and next on our agenda is the brona municipal Alliance committee presentation corer and Jin M JN you come join us please thank you for inviting the r Municipal Alliance committee here tonight as you honor the safe homes program I'm honored to be here and humbled to be following um our great youth programs and our brave veterans and of course our distinguished County representative so um safe Homes at its core is a registry of like-minded families pledging to encourage and model positive behaviors neac is funded by a grant from the governor's Council on substance use disorders and matching funds from the township while the grant may be relatively small the impact is great due to Partnerships and Community Support I'd like to highlight that tonight first and foremost vac is a committee of 15 volunteers who work TIR tirelessly to bring our P programs to life and who reach out to the community Through social media town events and informational webinars bmac works with the public school system to deliver to deliver peer leadership and mentoring programs we partner with the Verona Police on in school programs at all grade levels Outreach to senior citizens and parents and in the medicine Dropbox and DEA takeback days the next one is actually coming up this Saturday we worked closely with the Verona Public Library last spring to bring art therapy to our senior citizens and we continue to look for ways to partner the Verona health and Recreation departments collaborate with us to deliver programs and information and the very popular family night would not be possible without the tremendous support of our local businesses so most importantly this evening we want to thank the members of the council and the community for supporting the safe homes program and the mission of bat our mandate is to combat underage drug and alcohol use and all substance abuse by pursuing our mission to celebrate and cultivate The Compassion character and confidence that people especially our youth need to make good choices in life and that would not be possible with the support of our partners so again I say thank you question from house before we let you go more just a comment again I just want to thank you and all the volunteers on vmac which I know some are here is here she's our chair newly uh sworn in chair wonderful and um I want to you know thank you and all the volunteers for all of your hard work it is a lot to even just coordinate family night but all of the programs that you do throughout the year it is a lot of effort um and integration with our school system our front Public Library and other partners I just want to uh really thank you for everything that you are all doing for us thank you and again it wouldn't be possible without you uh councilwoman Holland sits on our committee attends all of our meetings we really appreciate her input and again the support of all of you thank you as a as a former member of vmac by virtue of being an advisor to a couple of the uh the school-based programs um like test to the hard work that is happening there um but also the thoughtfulness that goes into all that programming and uh and personally um for those of you who don't know Miss Jocelyn was our coordinator and is now our coordinator again came back to what can be a a difficult position uh and is running great programing gasway and thank you for that and I hope as many families as possible will sign on to the safe homes pledge um because we can really avoid some major tragedies uh by by that ones I've un fortunately seen in my EMS work uh they're so incredibly praful so thank you for your work and and really getting that done we appreciate it we're proud to bring these programs and it's very rewarding work so we thank you for the opportunity thank you an and I believe that is it for my report today it is my honor to turn the meeting over to our attention manager thank you man um I one for you is the special meeting we have to schedule CL is attempting schedule for you for the review of the rpce for the street skate M she is eight for you getting responses back when you're available this for two months back we need to really have that companies have all submitted rfps and we've gone through Kevin and I gone through looking through them for you and you may want to look at all six but we're for you thank you um okay so we these are you know they're they're lengthy RPS so would you like the council to rank order who we would like to speak to like put in preference that's what m k I discussed so when she sends that email out she's going to do that and then we'll do the top three again I think that's what we decided right I it again and instructions on the right and yeah and a due date for us help know to do well the depy managers report as they know all the projects that are motion the projects that we consider bidding uh some of the special meetings that I've had during the month with Kevin and I with the rescue um on the Emergency Services building meeting with fire again I've had my regular meeting with the superintendent of schools coordination coordination of projects and keeping the lines of communication open within Bo ucation through um I am scheduling again with co colle co University D myself Co University to their facilties uses sure if you would like the deputy manager report first and then go into new jens's full stting hear from the deputy manag thank you mayor council um I will understanding that we have the pool rate study to discuss I will try to briefly go through my report I know we have a lot to discuss with the pool itself one of the items is the pool improvements we did receive bids uh we will discuss um the the cost of that project briefly in the rate study um but we will also require some supplemental uh funding for the award of that contract again we will work through the great study discussion shortly and uh in order to advance that project we aim to prepare uh supplemental Bond ordinance for introduction in November uh with Wastewater we have completed our smoke testing we've also completed the televising of the trunk line um that runs parallel to the pekan river between BR da and the Wastewater Plant uh there are obvious uh needs along in different sections and along that trunk line will be summarizing those needs and uh putting together a summary report to the council shortly uh number of the other projects are moving through their their different stages of of of each project most notably the primary clarifier pumping station is finally out to bid we did get authorization from the ibank uh to authorize and and uh advertise that project we will be receiving bids on November 22nd uh the for the drinking Wells L Drive well continues uh under construction uh the target remains to put that project that well back online in December and contractor remains on schedule for that date uh again Fairview Avenue well we do still await the authorization from the ibank to advertise that project and that's hinged on the Green Acres final approval uh for that um diversion application uh we also have our clar Drive Pump Station project uh that is probably about a two week delay behind the clarifier pumping station project so we hope within the next few weeks we will have that Pro we have authorization to advertise that project as well uh we do continue to reach out to our energy audit team that's performing local government energy audit uh they did indicate that we should be receiving the final energy audit which is the wastewater treatment plant um by the beginning of November and once we have all the energy audits we will circulate them to the mayor and Council we will also schedule them for presentation uh and we are also working with uh continuing to work with the solar consultant we will be uh scheduling followup meetings with the solar consultant um in relation to the feasibility study that they've been working on a number of road projects we've finished construction on most of our road projects that were open the next one that is uh queuing up for the next design and construction is Lyndon Avenue as everyone has probably seen there the temporary demonstration has been installed on Lyon Avenue again the temporary demonstration is a demonstration of three different controls which are attempts to um address speeding concerns along Lyon Avenue uh they've been installed we are collecting data that will be compared to the pre-installation speeding data that we have on file uh and then we're also performing a walkthrough audit with the uh complete streets technical assistance team on uh October 24th again the uh desire of this project is to see what methods are effective and which ones are not and which ones may uh fit into a final design on Lyon Avenue for construction in 2025 Mr uh Deputy manager I stop right there sure it may be helpful on this one um been getting a lot of unsolicited feedback in different places about this um and we might need to do a little more PR here as far as explaining what the purpose of this is so people are interpreting there is a survey that is out collecting data but people are interpreting this as a new traffic pattern and like these just markouts for a new traffic pattern and not what it actually is which is testing these different instruments so it might be helpful to get a blast out especially on social media you know where all problems get solved and and um to get some information out there that just says we're testing these things that this is not a proposed pattern and I think there has been some out there but definitely not enough to catch the eye of a lot of people and maybe even like some signage or something that it's like these are those things but just throw that out there before I forget because this seems to be a an item of public Intrigue at the moment does that is we can certainly do that we can we can highlight that temporary demonstrations will be leaving soon and we can also highlight that if people have comments they should provide them through the survey I real quick I I've got I think we've all gotten calls on it uh but I've directed people towards my Verona did an article on it and they were very specific about being temporary so I directed people that way so you can push that out too right that was um very well it was an effective Q&A typ of article that that served the purpose of sending that same message so we can certainly look to do the same absolutely yeah even like a Mixel whatever we call it Lerona L it just goes out and says there's a little more information and link to a page where we can take that Q&A and put that out there something with he a lot of question yes c um the walk through though on October 24th is open to the public as well um and like the invitation went out so the community can join the conversation so besides just filling out the survey um they can join the conversation on the 24th granted it's in the middle of the workday but yes that's correct it starts at one o'clock in town hall we will then move out to Lyon Avenue to actually walk and observe the uh the traffic and the the temporary demonstrations that are out there and then we'll return back to town hall and talk through the successes and or failures of the demonstration so I will be than you uh the ever field project continues through design Administration did meet with vbsl on October 15 discuss the building and coordination we'll have another followup meeting with both bbsl and meglia on November 12 uh pickle ball and Tennis Courts we did receive vids for that project last week as well uh there is a um a a need to also prepare supplemental Bond ordinance for the award of contract for that project uh the low bidder was 442,000 uh there were um significant number of of bids submitted for that project so there were competitive uh bids on the project um it is um uh a fluctuating Market but I think we did get a good bid based on the number of bid responses and that they were all clustered closely together so that is the correct bid price so we will prepare that supplemental Bond ordinance for introduction in November um continuing on sure so is there an both this and the Pool Resurfacing came in over so um is there an explanation on both why the estimate was off so the uh I think there're probably two slightly two different reasons I think the the cool projects in general it's a very specialized type of work there's very few contractors so to get uh reliable and accurate estimates prior to construction um one is difficult because it's such a Specialized Service with so few contractors um but it is also it is relatively volatile type of construction project as opposed to a repaving uh a Rec roadway reconstruction project where there are many more contractors there's much more stability in those types of prices and projects uh pickle ball tenis cours are somewhat similar uh again because they're it's it's a recreational project it's it's small uh small area repaving there's a specialty surface that um is provided at the end of the paving on the project and um there was uh slight elements where as you're going through the final design uh the determination the original estimate additional drainage around the site there was some additional site work and some additional Landscaping that was add so there were some additional Design Elements but there's also again it is a specialized uh contractor that there are not a lot of of recreation contractors that do these types of projects so again there's there's a little bit of uncertainty when you prepare those preliminary estimates okay thank you um with a couple of the sustainable initiatives I think the one to highlight is that uh we had a off meeting for the community energy plan on October 18th that was an internal discussion we had the sustainable Jersey intake meeting earlier today uh we will continue to report progress on that Community energy plan uh but there are a lot of initiatives that uh Verona has already implemented that they do recommend as part of the plan so it'll be helpful it's it's helpful to see that Verona is already ahead of the curve on a lot of these initiatives um we will report continue report on that as we move forward um the jumping ahead the affordable housing um Figures were released by the state uh the affordable housing Council afford affordable housing planner Township planner Administration will be meeting later this week um we've we' scheduled that meeting in anticipation of working together to prepare project timelines and work uh ensure that the affordable housing planner and the township planner are um are working together together to join efforts on each of their initiatives to make sure that we're hitting all the timelines and and syncing those up with mayor and council meeting dates and then planning board meetings as well um and the last bid that we did receive was uh again Town Hall windows and repointing and these are three bids that are all again um they are specialized work this the the town hall window and repointing project we did receive bids uh the intention on this project was to break the window replacement and the repointing of town hall into two separate phases one was to be undertaken in 2024 one was to be undertaken in 2025 uh the totality of both of those phases would have been approximately $800 to $900,000 in total Capital cost for the rehabilitation of of town hall the bid as it was prepared and and packaged uh that was just opened on October 17th uh it included a number of alternative uh bids it was the base bid plus four separate alternates um in total uh the the project exceeded the funding for capital in phase one uh however it is under budget for what would have been Phase One Plus phase two collectively so we're working with the CFO to review the bids and also review the approved Capital budgets to see if there's any reappropriation to see if we can wipe this project off of consideration for future years and and eliminate the need for a phase two of this project but we are currently reviewing what the options are that's you any other questions for thank you um I just want to go back to the affordable the statement you made about affordable housing um and just uh and thank you for you know listening to some of the concerns that I raised about the timing we all know this is an incred ibly aggressive timing um a lot needs to get done by June 30th and other Milestones because this will be a project that both the township Council and the planning board will be heavily involved in and we have two planners uh which is great actually two sets of experts we um I think I used the word we have to be really disciplined on um understanding our current meeting schedule when things need to be decided do we need to have special Mee meetings let's plan them now and where is there wiggle room in case we don't have agreement um and and we need to actually debate what is the best course of action these decisions that we're going to make in the next eight months will impact our community forever and so it is a very um serious and important project but the timing is so aggressive um and obviously 560 whatever other municipalities in New Jersey or or a fraction of a heavy fraction of them are all going through the same thing so do we have the right professionals lined up legal counsel all of that so I do appreciate whatever internal coordination kick off on Wednesday but we I would really like to see a copy of that timeline you know as soon as it's prepared I think I'm sure we all would um because it's just it's this is uh this is this is going to be a lot so thank you any questions for our deputy man any question okay believe we're at the pool rate study one moment set up fine I need a moment too thank you Mr May Council it's a pleasure to be here uh by myself before unfortunately with large numbers followed by the word increases uh but it's my pleasure to be here um my name is Eric kokia from New Gen strategies and solutions I'm here to discuss the draft results of our pool util pole utility study um couple things I want to say before I go through the slides um everything here um tonight is to Foster discussion all the numbers you'll see is an opportunity for us to provide you information um I would not consider anything written in stone right now so we're here to answer questions and provide you our initial draft results I have a brief presentation that I'll go through and again the the goal is to have a discussion so I'll be happy to answer questions after um I'll talk a little bit about the background and purpose of our study some of the data we we relied on the assumptions we made which are key to the results that we developed talk about the cash flow scenarios that we developed as part of the study again focusing on a financially stable pool utility and um some of the fee scenarios that we developed to match those cash flow scen are we've been working on this since early 2024 this year we've been working with staff uh who have been essential in providing us information to develop these results the bottom line we were tasked with investigating was how do we build a financially stable pool utility as you know the 2024 for Budget Pool included $200,000 of arpa money that is no longer going to be available as a revenue source for theol utility going forward 25 and Beyond we were tasked with developing a fiveyear and 10-year forecast using reasonable assumptions of how we generate the appropriate revenue or save enough dollars within the utility to meet that Revenue burden that is no longer available in order to develop these forecasts we wanted to use the most recently available data we use the actual operating costs as as much as we could from this 2024 pool season to make sure we're established in the most recently available data we did adjust for things that we know are going to happen I was here previously discussing water rates we know your water rates are going to increase that is going to impact the cool utility going forward we made some other adjustments again consistent with some of the um recom commendations and things you'll hear after this presentation about operating hours um cost increases things like that we've try to be as consistent with those as possible in our study our Focus always is to maintain appropriate reserves in the pool utility given some of the timing of the expenses and some of the forecasts the pool utility needs an appropriate level of operating and capital reserves to fund future expenses our focus is maintaining cash flow to maintain those reserves and you'll see that in some of our charts and you'll see detailed information of that our draft report this table here shows the operating cost of the pool utility the top two lines are primarily wages and benefits and operating expenses of the utility it totals approximately $543,000 in 2024 increasing to just over $680,000 to our 5-year forecast these are the labor costs these are tied uh closely to the minimum wage and how that's going to increase in New Jersey over the 5-year forecast operating expenses things like um uniforms day-to-day operations things like that opening and closing the pool things like that listed below that are what we're calling other funds these are costs that have historically not been captured in the pool utility however you've made an effort over the past year to include these we have continuing to include them the primary one of course is water purchases you purchase Township water to run the pool that cost is going to increase over the next years we've increased that from about $37,000 to about $50,000 beginning next year and increases thereafter overall this is relatively stable again because it's tied to labor costs and those are relatively stable in our forecast but it is increasing to the range of about six to four to six% per year over this 5year period the other key component of the pool utility is the debt that's in occurred to complete major capital projects occurs every so often you have one on the books for the splashback that you installed recently that will capitalize in fiscal year 2027 we've included that you will pay off some of those um existing debts in 2027 so there's a balance there you can see this chart overall Ines but this is all that this is all stuff that's on the books already um we estimated I want to make clear that we estimated The Debt Service for the 1.6 million Splash Pad um you can see 15year amateurz at 4.8% interest that is not final that is not a final number however our forecast is meant to be able to capture that if there's some variance there in terms of the interest rate cost there the next slide shows our forecasted Capital Improvement plan again these are some ongoing and one-time costs to maintain a sa a safe and and operational pool the largest one of course um Mr mentioned uh you open bids last week for the pool replas ring in our initial study previous to that that number was about 330 maybe $350,000 based on your estimate it is now 550,000 which is the mid-range depending on the engineering and design cost of that the good news is in our forecast that did not change our results that we initially arrived at using the lower number because of the amateurz of that and the fact that our Focus was on maintaining cash flow so that increased the cost by about $ 20 to $30,000 per year by almost doubling the cost of that project however our results in terms of fee increases remain the same when we plug that number in and that's what I'm trying that's what our ultimate goal is to manage either increases in cost or decreases in Revenue in a way that we can maintain a stable poal fund the other cost here the larger one coming up in the recent um future is um rehabilitating the basketball courts everything else is um maintaining trees placing Furniture things of that nature this slide shows the total cost forecast of the pool utility going forward essentially you're running a utility at about a million dollars a year and that's going to be increasing in the future in 2024 you can see that was offset by $200,000 of arpa Revenue that is not included in 2025 and Beyond which means in 2025 the revenue need from fee fees and passes and things like that is about $950,000 which is up from about $653,000 this current budget year the offsetting revenue here are related to um the rental fees that you charge uh the rental fees you charge for the concession these are offsetting but you can see in a million doll utility we're forecasting those to be no more than about 50 to $660,000 per year which means ultimately that cost is driven by your membership fees bottom line cost is driven by your membership fees and we did some forecasting on increasing the revenues from those non fee revenues I mentioned two cash flow scenarios again our focus is on maintaining a stable fund one way to do that is to immediately increase fees next year so that you no longer make use of the pool's fund balance to support operations that was our first scenario an immediate increase in fees to generate the $950,000 and whatever is necessary going forward beginning next year the second scenario is using time essentially to use fund balance over the course of the next two years and then in 2027 meeting a stable cash flow generating at least or slightly more than the the operating Capital needs of the system but all throughout those two years we are maintaining fund balance you'll see in the next couple charts that our fund balance decreases but we're over our recommended minimum and then we maintain that going forward one of the key considerations of course is your membership structure specifically current fees are only um offered to Verona residents under each of these two cash flow scenarios we developed an alternative scenario in which a pilot program was offered for the next two years to offer outside Rona residents from these specific communities listed here at a cost of $2,400 per family membership the only level of membership for out of town customers and 50 of those memberships available again this is assuming that each of those 50 memberships are sold at the $2,400 per membership going forward so the fee summary you'll see on the next slide and detailed in our report assume that all of those are sold and in each of those cases you meet the cash flow of the two scenarios one immediately raising revenue the second phasing in that increase over two years slide 10 shows a summary of those scenarios both including and not including out of town memberships I'll focus on the 2025 year increase and go through each one of those the top uh the top is our scenario one no use of fund balance immediately increasing revenues with existing memberships no out of town memberships we're using your family membership which is your most popular one as a representative um example here that would be a 35% increase in 2025 which is approximately a $210 per family increase to generate the appropriate Revenue all other memberships would also increase by that 35% across the board that is how you would get a cash flow neutral pool pool utility uh next year also shown in that is the St scenario one with outside members 2400 each 50 memberships available that resulting increase on the inside family membership is about $90 which is about 15% so that's the the difference there in terms of relative that pilot program and that policy the second table shows the second scenario scenario two we are using fund balance so the fees are lower in the first two years we are using uh pool existing fund balance to maintain the the cash flow of the utility the first year increase without outside memberships is 15% the first year increase with outside memberships is 0% so all of the revenue generated in that second scenario with outside memberships is essentially from the 50 out of town memberships and you can see the forecast going forward of how those fees would have to change under those two cash flow scenarios the last slide I have here shows the fun balance forecast under the two scenarios again both with and without outside memberships cash flow is essentially the same obviously there's a fee impact relative to that decision on the left side immediately in fiscal year 25 we generate enough cash to not use fund balance and that fund balance is increasing in these five years again looking at the impact on the number of memberships given the cost Capital cost that may be increasing operating cost that may be increasing we are able to develop this scenario to be resilient to those types of changes so although you're generating cash flow here you're contributing to a capital reserve to complete capital projects at cost or possibly increase cost in the fiveyear forecast on the right hand side this is a scenario where you see the fund balance dips for those first two years we're still contributing to a capital reserve however we are using the operating Reserve to maintain the stability of the fund over the two-year forecast beginning in fiscal year 27 is when the the fund balance is stable and then generating cash flow in the two subsequent years of this forecast both of these scenarios are consistent with the fee increases we showed both with and without out of time members the next um several slides just show details of the fees based on those increases so I think now is a good time to to stop and and answer any questions um about the results I want to call for questions this time not discussion just questions to ask to clarify the presentation and rep c um my biggest concern when we talk about full membership rates um I us phase that the economics teacher over here loves which price elasticity of demand um my biggest concern always when we're managing the pool rates is there is a point at which not as many people will buy these memberships based on the price is there a methodology by which this can be forecast is it something where it's only a weight to see did you kind of consider this in your analysis it's certainly a wait and see you are absolutely right this is a a very discretionary type of purchase for your customers uh for your citizens what we we did not consider any elasticity in terms of a decrease in membership spe because of the increased prices but what we did you can see is forecast and out years generating cash flow so this model would be able to withstand a certain level of that and maintain positive cash flow going forward in order to keep things relatively simple we did not Venture a guess as to what that may be but given what these results are anything from a 3 to 5% decrease per say $100 increase in fees uh if that's reasonable we'd likely be able build it into this forecast and maintain stability it's not clear though from you sort of inherently answered my other question here is well what pong well it does look like you have some wiggle room there that if we do dip below those levels we'll still be you know cash flow positive for those years and then the other factor that goes into this is you know we just had a fairly substantial fee increase this year and we didn't really see you know a substantial you know negative impact on on count of memberships it does feel like people do see that there is some value here but obviously these numbers are are getting larger and larger relatively quickly certainly there there there's certainly a ceiling there it was not last year's increase um because like you said we used the 24 membership which was an increase in the 23 membership to to generate these forecasts but you're right we were sensitive to that in in developing forecast if we made this you know cut to the bone that minimum and we weren't able to sustain some of that decrease um I don't think we'd be doing a good job we wanted to build in a consideration of that without committing to any forecast and then also the out of town memberships that $2,400 number is also a very large number but it feels like a lot of you know this proposal rests on the weight of being able to sell all of those um is the cash flow model still resilient enough if the if out of town memberships were considered but did not actually sell um you know that $2,400 number with non-starter because we have no back testing data on that at all it is so again we're building the full sale of those in this assumption but again that's relative to if you sell half of them um this model is still sustainable at that point and you're you're com about that the level of that fee again that is purely discretionary we arrived at that using the only comparable Community next door and also a just a it was a point at which we thought a reasonable forecast could be developed this course is heavily dependent on it in those two scenarios in which you offer those ships okay I'm GNA piggy back off of that I had the same question about how exactly the $2,400 came about with CED Groves being 1600 which I in my opinion I already um if you could just give me a little give us a little idea of where that 2400 came from why why was that picked as the number that was sure so that number is approximately three and a half times your current um family membership it would increasing based on the percentages that we saw here um we wanted to make it significant we wanted to show that that is a is a significant decision that alters these forecasts um we wanted to demonstrate that making that decision is important and it has an impact um it is a service that you would offer that is a very highly valuable service you operate a very nice pool um we wanted to make it so that that decision point was clear and we didn't want it to make you know the the impact of you sell all those or not make or break the system or the the forecast essentially my next question is I think based on that um so this place we talking about the resilience of the model previously um but $2,400 and we can't really predict how many people I can imagine it be that many to be honest and that's one of my concerns with the report but wrong questions now um would you foresee the necessity of of really based on the assumptions of this report having to write another report almost next year the year after um because assuming we we want to minimize use fund balance all these other items do you see the potential that these numbers are going to be completely um reviewed and reassessed shortly I wouldn't say completely certainly partially yes the the the number of memberships in each of your membership categories regardless of your choice from the pilot program for inside outside um has a big impact that's 95% of your your revenues for a million dollar utility so yes you would closely review that impact and do whatever you can to maintain that stability understanding that the price signals may may be defining that and it's hard to know what's going to come next year the questions for coule kind of with summary type question but um looking at this our basically our costs are going up at the pool utility $100,000 and obviously it's wages and all uh that go along with that but we have to find another 200,000 because we have to make up for the money that we were getting uh so I'm going through I was reading the more detail report and and notice like obviously our Splash Pad that's going to be coming on in 27 uh that's actually half of that payment per year it's me $152,000 a year for 15 years uh in the report it said that rate that we would be getting for that would be 4.8% for not 1.6 million why is it that we have now we have the Pool Resurfacing in the report it said that rate for the 570k would be at 4% it seems like they're coming up in the same year is there a reason why there was I mean it's almost a whole percent difference in the financing what is there a reason for that I have to go back and check I think we were trying to Target a an estimated amount previously for that for that 1.6 million um we should certainly be consistent with those percentages again the level of those percentages does not have a material impact I know it's 1% on a significant amount of money with within our model and within the the scope of the utility as a whole we wouldn't expect the results to change if we were to be consistent either up or down you're gonna have a slight variation because we're g to be we have Bond anticipation notes first and then we have to actually bond out and the interest rates will be slightly different due to the timing of the projects right sure any other question there were other more minor ones that I had but I'm not going to them now no I'm okay um thank you um I think um I guess my question is was there so this this was an excellent report thank you and thank you for all the cash flow analysis and the questions that my colleagues asked one thing that I was curious on but it wasn't addressed in this report is the relative um proportion of our different rate classes and and then of any analysis looking at utilization by different R CLA because clearly we have badge swipes and how would that possibly impact rates I mean sure you know there's assigns to rate making and you know what should seniors be charge versus a couple versus family and what is it all based off of even though the majority of the memberships are family so can you touch on why that wasn't one kind of focus in your own heis sure so in our scope it was sort of taken as a given the the current rate structure and forecasting it over we did look at some unit costs on an hourly basis about um know per person per hour type costs but we didn't utilize that to make any um conclusion about what those differences should be um our scope included the assumption that those adopted rates reflected certain policy considerations of council um that you were comfortable with and in order to keep our our cash flow modeling as as straightforward as possible and isolate the impact of the fee increases um we took those asn't given so we didn't want to interject any you know policy recommendation that you know one type of customer should pay more or less than they are paying we took your lead on that and assuming the the rates that were adopted reflect reflected your preferred arrangement of this piece okay thank you I'm going to reserve my questions for the policy presentation good any any comments regarding the report but I think we we have received a report I think there's a fair um any council members desire to see something additional we have a second presentation it would be helpful to provide some Administration some feedback after seeing both um so we'll talk about that because definitely some some items that we're going to want to hear more about uh in order to make decisions so right thank you absolutely thank you it's Rob good evening everyone I just put this in he evening everyone U thank you for your presentation uh that was great uh working with Eric uh and Aiden over the past few months has been uh a very eye openening experience uh in a positive way uh so tonight we are going to uh go through a little bit more of the scope of the pool in terms of uh the salary and wages that our uh staff receives um some of the policies in place uh and also some of the fee and fee recommendations that we are going to look at for uh the next year um so with that being said okay so the first thing we are going to touch on is uh salary and maintenance uh salary and wages sorry U I'm going to try to keep the first third of this quick uh because a lot of the uh wages and fees are things that we've done in years past and it's just uh a quick explanation overview um uh how we are going to proceed um okay so for office and maintenance we're going to keep the same scale that has existed for several years uh the first year of employment uh these individuals start with minimum wage and which is set by the state of New Jersey which should be finalized later this calendar year uh each subsequent year we have an increase of 25 cents um except for the fourth year which we do uh go up by a dollar and that is due to the experience and value of the employee that we've seen uh over the years uh lifeguards the increases are the exact same they do start with a dollar more than minimum wage due to the responsibility required and the additional certifications this is the hourly wage for the excuse me the management team uh they have an hourly wage that is going to now be tied to the minimum wage with a slight departure from what we did last year uh when the season starts they receive uh given amounts uh above minimum wage uh and in subsequent years they would receive standard 2% increases uh these hourly wages are only utilized when managers are performing duties outside of their typical 35 uh hour work week about just question we currently have a pool grounds manager or is this the Assumption of a new I'm sorry a grounds maner it says there's a pool grounds manager as one of the hourly wages one of the manager wages we currently do do not there was last year we had it was kind of a crossover position uh that was all encompassing he this individual managed the office he uh would come in on his own time and uh paint some things that were uh that didn't look great out of his own pocket so that's going to be a manager position that we're looking to confirm this year kind of shifted last year in real time uh we've always had four positions four manager positions okay now in addition to the uh stiens the managers will be able to earn small increases with various uh certifications uh the last few years we've had onsite uh pool trading for all employees um and some of the new certific some of the CER C ifications are certified pool operator lifeguarding WSI water safety instructor and uh lifeguard management okay uh in addition uh the to the managers we also have swim instructors and we do have a head maintenance position uh the the swim coaches are a small increase should they have the valid certification and safety training for swim coaches um all of these can be obtained through the American Red Cross uh the swim coach stien is slightly increased this year contingent upon experience from the previous year um we do propose assistant swim coaches receive a small 50 Cent increase above their lifeguard wage for coaching excuse yes um I think um your what your um your presentation was just one slide off so uh from what you've Advanced for the viewers at home so I think are we on swim instructor and head maintenance as your next slide I just want to make sure oh I apologize y sorry for those at home I just wanted to make sure they saw the same data that you're referencing yeah so now we should be on playground staff sure I'm sorry um so for the playground sta uh it's a similar scale to uh maintenance and the office the position increases 25 cents annually uh except for supervisors supervisors do receive a 2% uh increase each year um each year the staff does have an opportunity to apply for an advanced position uh and that position again will increase their wage based on experience and position thank you so this presentation is about the community pool Staffing and I found it confusing the reference to the playground staff because my understanding is that that's a recreation program that's separate from the community pool and while I do understand that they come to the pool and that you know maybe you would want to factor in a fee associated with that I I was struggling to understand why the salaries The Playground St counselors were included in a pool budget and fee conversation it was originally we were doing summer so um Summer Staff so it it is in line with the non- Lifeguard positions uh it was just in there for information we know this is not what we're covering the playgrounds it was just an informational slot well that's helpful so you are just to confirm saying that we would not be then paying for the playground staff of the pool utility budget no great we are not and to wrap up the playgrounds the certification uh to the supervisors they do get an increase of $5 per hour if they are a certified teacher so these are strictly poed uh policy amendments that uh as Eric said earlier they are or a wide array of things we're looking at to operate the pool uh as financially responsible as possible uh first thing we're going to look at for the pool and policies is to examine the splash pad uh hours and the Early Access separate from the rest of the community pool the splash pad is open for two hours per day Monday through Friday uh the average attendance for the those hours has been eight members per hour roughly under six just under 16 uh patrons per day um reducing these hours at Splash Pad in the baby pool um and keeping it only open during regular operating hours has the potential to save the town uh $8500 in 2025 um we do recommend examining this I think we should uh talking with uh po management and the office we propose that we amend the hour to two to three days per week um is it when you say 16 patrons per day is it 16 families per day no actually when so when I walk in as a roboam family yes we click how many people I'm with okay so if it's just me and my daughter it's two so this is actual patrons at the and where would you say besides the opening materials that we get as members where would you say you this is these hours are advertised to members this past year on the website on the initial information flyer they're in the rules um okay um so the next slide is for private rentals uh the next thing we are looking to the next item we are looking at uh over the course of the next few months is transformation of the rect tent the rect 10 is a wonderful um amenity for the pool to have um it's a great place catering to mostly children it does not um unfortunately have the numbers that it might have years ago uh it is defitely gone down in attendance since I have been in fona since 2017 uh and looking at the rec 10 it doesn't drive Revenue if we do not have Rec 10 employees we can still open the pool um that's not the case with some other areas so what we are looking uh at doing is transforming the rect tent into a Ada physically compliant facility uh that could be a safe safe space for children uh who learn differently this is contingent on securing um grants for the physical Renovations and possibly uh the hourly wages uh we are going to put in for three grants that uh we are hopeful that we can obtain some uh of the money there's a window of awards one is in up in October that we are going to apply for at the end of the month one's in December and one is early 2025 C I had a question do you feel that that's long-term sustainable as a recurring source of revenue for your operating expenses above and beyond your conversion costs it would have to be evaluated uh you know year to year I think turning that area into an ADA complying area can benefit the township long term yes it's just question of whether or not you know you're able to obtain operating expense Grant your first year and then it's back to you know coming out of your Opex budget yes so yeah you have to figure out what the operation would it seems like we cut to exep for what we're doing now ccil mcra um thank you um how do you measure attendance uh at the right yeah uh we asked the manager there to give us a report each day and it comes in weekly as to how many uh children were up at residents were up at the rect 10 and or participated in the different activities they ran so as a followup could we get a copy of the summary from this last year okay M on um right the township offers uh pre-season parties for uh nonprofits and Township organizations uh what we are looking at going to this year is being able to field parties from private organizations um for preseason rentals when the pool is not open at part of the membership uh we we will go over the fees uh later uh another potential way of Revenue uh for the township to create revenue is a nominal fee for family night um Family night's been very well attended it is um a great service there are several uh programs that the township runs at the pool that is more of a service and it is not generating a profit by adding some of these nominal fees we are able to keep those costs down such as uh water aerobics swim team and we'll discuss what the operating costs of those are uh in a little bit Dave can I go back one to the private rentals you know you don't have to do the slide but just a question since we're talking about like May June and September is there any difficulty in staff because I know obviously we all know we use a lot of college gree season there there we could staff it September would be difficult we've yet to do that so um some of the private rental uh Town some of the townships that do private rentals they have the company provide Staffing that could be an option uh where they're not paying for our staffing operational cost they're bringing their own lifeguards um but September would be a challenge I think May and June would be uh a lot more feasible for our employees thank you um can you refresh my recollection what are the times so it's so it's the 4: to 8:00 P.M for the family night yes that that's the admission so the the price that a resident would pay for that admission would be for that 4our window correct for a family okay so so it would be that flat fee for up to what like are you proposing like four to six people well if we are going to go with the fee then we have more numbers then we do have the numbers from each family night um and we would work out a nominal fee we were thinking $25 per family of four okay so I I just want to I would like us to think about how this interacts with some of the other passes that we have for example the day pass and others so if it ends up being $25 for four hours on a family night evening is that really worth it or do somebody buy a DAT pass and then they just get like the whole day um I later on in the presentation you have comments about you know the concerts as well so I just want to note that my comment would remain for that as well okay thank you um moving on to the rescue squad firefighter membership um although having those members at the pool is invaluable at a time of need um in case of an emergency over the course of the past five to seven years the the price of operating the pool has grown astronomically when I first started a first year employee made $7.25 that starting wage will be over $15 an hour in 2025 um so again this is just another area where we are hoping or looking to charge a nominal fee where some of those you know we're not going to make up the $200,000 in one broad stroke but uh looking at different areas where we can make a few thousand dollars here and there uh can can close that Gap and get us closer to um the S running the pool financially sustainably D May uh one quick question and I know I spoke to you today about this uh I'm not going to go back and tell you what I got paid as a recreation uh employee when I started but uh that's a whole another uh but uh going to the uh Rescue Squad and firefighters because we Now swipe in at the gate can we provide us with the number of I mean 135 individuals but how many of them actually use the pool facility so if we can get that that'd be very helpful for us moving forward making our decision how many swipes they have yes um I have a call into capture point they are working on it thank you um so can I just as a point of clarification when we say the 135 that's individuals not memberships because that's there's been a point of confusion of that at the record Rec committee at times so when a family of three has a firefighter and they get a membership there are three firefighter Rescue Squad memberships awarded to said family of three so the answer is 135 people total membership thank you um when your point two which I really thank you for providing this additional the um clarification because historically the complimentary memberships have been identified as an incentive for volunteerism but you're identifying here that you know there's actually you know a you a use for the first responders at the pool in addition to all of our certified staff is there an offset then to you know when we're offering this complimentary membership does that in any way offset like the number of employees that the pool um well I no because we can't predict who's coming when and there are certain guidelines that we need to follow follow to keep the pool staff properly um again although very helpful uh in the time of a potential crisis or emergency it's not something that we could rely on uh at this point in time the way it's structured to offset say the need for x amount of lifeguards or you know okay well thank you for that um also I know and I know that you're very familiar with it um that the rec committee did have different recommendations regarding some of the fee structures and including this and some of your other recommendations were those considered in developing this allc document so they were they were just all rejected because I don't see most of them in this document no there's a few that we with the guest books and some of the Gazebo things that we thought we could utilize and move forward with okay thank you okay moving on to the added Town memberships um sorry I skip one again no okay um the add of town memberships uh this would be a pilot program of 50 family memberships this is something that depending on the number uh coming from New Gen the third party know company that did this to keep the pool self- sustaining uh we would be on board with this pilot program yes sorry um so um I saw somewhere else but it's not on this slide that part of this pilot program would be that a current full member needs to sponsor an out of town member I don't know worry about that I more yeah one that we got so is that part is that your recommendation that there's a level of sponsorship so yes we would yes we so someone has to know someone who's a current pool member to be is there if it turns out that there is the out of town member does not follow the pool rules does that reflect on the with that reflect on the BR member we haven't gotten AB point and why not mon Clair because they are that is a very big Community why are they not on the list like they're very frustrated with their public pools at least as I read on Facebook um and a lot of them are joining a another country club that actually our people have said like our pool is way nicer than that right we would actually be competitive with a country club it's this is that's our pools that great I think the towns listed were the ones that we got the most information from in terms of uh the fee structures for the neighboring towns I don't think we would be opposed from offering it to an additional town if it again increased R okay thank youon we were talking a little bit about the source of the revenue dollar fig I was thinking did we actually look at private country clubs or other recreational facilities as to what a family might spend for a monthly membership I just you know I don't know not country clubs but yes we did look at the neighboring towns um for their Municipal pools uh and where we fell in line with that and the one toown Cedar Grove that does allow out of town uh family me memberships and what they charged I mean I I would be curious about since I I do believe that our municipal pool is truly actually a better facility than you know most other Municipal pools in the area I would be curious to know what people are paying for you know a membership at some sort of private Recreational facility obviously there's going to be social events and other things that we don't offer we don't have a golf course or anything like that but I'm curious if there's any kind of comparable facility that would be interesting to know what those rates might be like for something with a yeah that's something we could definitely take a look at Ste mayor just a comment I this would have been nice obviously timing is everything we didn't have this but when we put the pool survey out at the end of the year it would have been nice to say hey this is what rates might go up to or would you prefer I know we had it in a prior and people were against when the full survey was constructed um you didn't have as many specifics we are in the process of drafting a a very specific survey to send to the membership with this fee structure um and we would like to get it out uh shortly and and lastly second uh if we do move forward with this talking about you need someone to sponsor you does it have to it's not going to be just someone that's a pool member could to beat someone who's a verono resident that's a work in progress I wouldn't be able to ly sounds a little too country clubh for my taste and I would not endorse that as a just there now before we spent a lot of time talking about that but people should be able to you know SW those things it sounds a little little Le us and there might be some discriminatory practices that are that are unfortunately a consequence of that but go also look to ex expand the concert series at the pool um this past summer we had a great turnout with the concert uh that we ran at the pool and that was actually during one of the slower times uh with a lot of people taking their family vacation due to the Dead period with so much Sports and we had over a thousand people attend the concert at the pool that night uh we propose uh a Friday night concert in June that is not covered by your uh purchase of your family individual senior pool membership uh the money generated this concert again would be able to offset some of those programs like the Twilight aerobics the waves the mini waves um and now once we got to about 300 paid attendees uh for the night of the concert everyone after 300 at a rate of $20 per head would turn would generate a profit and cover the cost of the um so when you say a Friday in June I and it's not going to be part of for example a family membership of approximately $815 you're envisioning this to be preseason right when we're just open for the weekends this would be a Friday night the major okay um I think that's more palatable and you said $20 I thought saw later it was $30 um but I can confirm that something was out of town $75 there were yeah I I think but you'll get to your fee slides but that was helpful because that was a point of clarification I had which was were you going to like Logistics of doing this you were going to empty out the pool of the exting members so the only way this works is that you're doing it pre-season correct and would you then have sufficient Staffing for that because part of the reason why the pool isn't open full-time at that at that point is because of your Staffing concerns yeah we would be able to staff it just like the the parties uh and it would be in later June when most of the college students are home um I don't know I don't have the information personally as to why it's not open fully full-time I would imagine that Tona public schools are still in session and we open the day after they close as opposed to just being able to fully staff it okay but so just circling back though you would still be doing this Friday night before schools out of session it would not interfere with full-time thank you so you said I'm said your break even point you thought was at 300 attendees correct event um so there's a possibility that an event could lose money possibility yeah but again the concert we had for family night which there was no fig we had about a th 10 I think we can do the Restriction skip the disciplinary action piece I'm age restriction you want to just go through the these yeah I mean I think some of this is policy stuff that isn't really but I think we should do the AG restrict yeah yeah fine okay I also had a comment about disciplinary action just because it seemed out this order okay so for the age restriction um this is for the overall safety of the pool out of uh 70 reported instances with the pool managers 50 of those instances dealt with 12 and 13 year olds uh who were attending the pool uh by themselves without a parent there um the beginning of the Season that was our overwhelming uh majority of the behavioral concerns we had so moving forward we would like to raise uh the entrance age from 12 to 14 for 2025 America do do you have a breakdown of how many of those 50 are 12 because I I saw this and I just kind of started laughing because those of us I don't know if you're at the last couple concer meetings but a lot of our birthdays are August September uh I was 13 years old the summer I graduated from 8th grade going into the pool and obviously the last thing I wanted was to have to go to the pool with my parents uh so I I think 13 would be okay because you're talking about young adults that are now going into high school right some of them so I mean that's just a that's a tough when you have they're certainly not going to the pool with their parents that way but you have the staff who are disciplining them who are two years older so there isn't that much of a difference between so 12 I could say yes probably but 13 I kind of have to say split that that's our suggestion that's where we ran into you know uh a lot of the issues this summer so um looking to keep the full as safe as possible yeah that was our recommendation think a lot of this is more for knowledge for us but I'm just going to throw out there I don't think it's really the role of the governing body to be as incr involved in the decisions are to micromanage and the administration really should be doing this and think there's I think we might be getting to the needs a little so much on on certain items um so I would hope that we would consider the T Administration has thought through these things and can adequately rule make and recommend do Kur 13y olds get grandfather in if they change we back to the lawyers figure out all right Rob let's so do we want to go to the I I just want to point out that you've got a reprimand before a warning that seems to be out of order a a a reprimand is like an official rebuke and how that then relates to a call to somebody's parent I'm not sure where I think it depends on who your parent is if it was my parent that would definitely be worse than somebody officially rebuking me but I think a warning needs to go before reprend thank you thank you and I I appreciate the administration's support on that I would also just in general I would kind of agree with the comment that the administration and rul making for the pool is an administrative function of the township even though we passed those you know by by policy here but I agree that we don't necessarily need to micromanage kind of R making um probably a little bit more interested in just going through financial structure and kind of maybe I don't know whether we're ready to Give opinions on fees um but that's going to be kind of the biggest point of us managing the pool I think just finan yes M sorry um before we advance so too quickly I really do want to go through the hours because part of haven't got for the hours yet yeah well I believe it's the next slide next slide so let's let the circle them actually talk about the hours well he had Advanced because he was hearing some of the comments so I do want to talk about the hours because it goes to the value of what that membership is and so and a lot of the feedback we get on the annual survey is about when is the pool open so we covered the splash pad hour so I am curious to have this conversation so thank you all right so for for the the hourly amendments we're looking um that the Sundays before we open fulltime to close at uh 7M since the bulk of our uh staff are students uh and some of our managers are teachers uh this is between Memorial Day and the last day of school um and we are looking to close the pool at 6: PM uh the Monday of Labor Day uh with school opening the Tuesday the day after in 2025 so we're just looking to keep that in line okay so with the in town and out of town memberships um there are um two sets of prices that were established by uh New genen U we work closely with them to generate these numbers and their proposal uh moving forward uh working with them moving forward we'll have our full support okay so some of the adjustments for the posos items including the guest passes we want to bring back uh the guest book which will be sold pre-season uh in blocks of 11 instead of six um the other change is a gazebo rental which is a slight increase um everything else is going to stay the same so uh moving on talking about some of those prices for the services that we run for in town uh programs such as water aerobics going into the pool as a member of the playground uh there's three major programs that we uh run and dedicate the price and submit the price for uh we have morning and Twilight aerobics uh the current cost of that program per person is $178.96 we currently only charge $50 for this program uh the price per person for the evening program is $251 uh again we charge $50 per person uh we are looking at uh an increase in both of these uh programs and having some of those preseason forties can offset where that number lands but this is an informative number to know where our break even point is for those programs the next one thankfully is a little more palatable uh in the past we've not charged for the trip to the summer playgrounds to the pool moving forward we recommend that if you sign the pool permission slip as a member of the summer playgrounds it is a 21 or $22 fee to cover the cost which is 2151 in addition to Summer playgrounds if you're a member of the pool you wouldn't be assessed that fee if you have a family membership to the pool you wouldn't be assessed the fee to go with the summer playground or you that's it's separate it would be charged with your registration and it goes to the pool uh because this is separate hours this is not when the pool's open full-time this is before the pool opens okay and it's just a one time flat 2151 it's so it's not per visit no okay it's a it would be a flat fee like a field trip have curiosity where' that number come from that seems like a oddly specific number for a annual pass when we don't have a current price at 2151 based on the pool for that hour that they're there there's four to five different programs So based on the hourly cost for operating and the employment staff we divided it by five and for the amount that we had signed up last year for the pool that's what the cost would be per child 2151 thank you I think Skip waves so for the Verona waves um this is another program that runs during the morning uh again this program has been undercharged for the past few years or pretty keep employed is $21.86 per registrant based on growing pool cost uh this price has not been raised significantly we are proposing to raise this price uh to $100 for 2025 I'm sorry it would have been helpful to know what the prices are now for all of these slides so what are they being charged now uh for the waves are $60 okay so that and I believe we did raise it recently so you're saying to go to 60 to 100 yes so just a general comment on the last few slides I mean for all of our Recreation programs we haven't done this analysis and I know that that may be something you're working on but the cost of every program and then what are we charging in fees so you're basically recommending to this governing body or signaling this is kind of a first round for the pool correct of really kind of doing this Recreation analysis that we have not really seen or we haven't seen in a really long time for all of our other programs that are not pool related we are after we're finished with getting all the numbers accurate for the pool we've already done the first quarter of Rec programs we are going to continue and do the rest of the 2024 calendar year okay thank you can I just get a point of you said $100 but it says 2011 on the slide yeah that's the price to cover and we're currently well under that okay so this isn't it's a per person cost so this is the cost not the the fee that would be Associated no we're we're looking to recommend a $100 for the fee okay this is a confusing slide that thank you yeah okay the next is the cgar pool rental that's a program that rents the facility Monday through Friday uh 2 hours early in the morning uh for the length of the summer on we open fulltime uh again the way we come up with these numbers we looked at when the pool is open um and we take all of the costs chlorine the water bill uh all of our energy costs Staffing costs and we come up with a number per hour that we're open not for the full length of the summer when we fill it to when we empty it when we're open and when we can bring in Revenue uh the cost of the couger program that we recommend since they use 25% of our facility is option number two which is a significant increase um last year I believe last year off the top of my head I think we charged them around 8,400 so and this would be to cover the cost of the two hours um per day Monday through Friday next slide is for our veruna Recreation Department uh working with local nonprofits to host pool parties at the pool this is pre-season before the pool's open full-time uh with increasing labor costs we propose to charge uh $413 17 per hour for each party this is the operating cost just to have the pool open um a standard party of 250 people would be charged $857 per hour uh so the sard sapping levels for said party I know there was a question about uh the staff that we utilize to keep the pool safely open this this encumbers 16 lifeguards for a party two managers and regular oper operating hours is only one uh four staff four office staff and two maintenance uh before the preseason party what is the necessity of having two managers on duty for a party that seems to have fewer attendees than you would normally have attendees at the PO uh each party is different but a lot of them do require help with say checkin or uh things that maybe wouldn't necessarily want a 15 16 year old to do on top of that the managers they're not getting an hourly fee here this is already included in their site so they're helping supplement the staff Okay C ground um it would be helpful as a followup item to have a list of all of the pool parties from last year and what were they they were charged and what their attendance was so all of the preseason parties any special events that may have happened also during the pool season and then if there were anything posst because I know in the past we had like a senior's party and and I know that's not necessarily what you're talking about here but this is a sensitive issue obviously because a lot of these are nonprofits that are targeted to children they you know they're nonprofits in Verona they're doing some of them are doing a lot of community service so I would like to I think the whole Council would benefit from seeing just really understanding the scope of these parties aside of them and what they paid last year which I know was an increase me fire correct okay thank you okay so this would be the proposed cost for the private uh pool rental we propos charging an operating cost of 150% uh Cost Plus 100% in order to achieve the price for a private tool rental um first this is for standard 250 person party this would roughly cost well not roughly I apologize 3,00 2521 and I apologize I do see the 30 per Rona resident it should have been 20 that's a that's a mistake I apologize for the family night conference series well I mean are you revising the recommendation does it actually make you co faster if you have $30 versus the $20 per family or is it we went over this this it's per person um looking at it now this is a mistake okay we down want to go over the rule amendments we just get best them well I think everybody read them anybody have any questions let me just with through my notes um I think I just have a global comment um keep comments for well it's a question really it's a global question for some of these recommendations um so my question is for example how are you going to track some of this to make sure that you can actually enforce the rules that you're recommending so you earlier in the slides you had your multiple like morning and refer demand scale you've got proposed um diving board restrictions if somebody's messing around on the diving board all of this is good policy I agree but how do you actually enforce it and track it when kids are are at the pool like do you make a note on a membership or something how would that work and you know whether that's been considered at this time because you know the rules are going to be only as good as their ability to be enforced and good question last year was the first year that we kept track of them we kept track of them um with a date with a name in the manager's office all the managers myself and the recreation office were privy to them it was not discussed with uh the staff but there was a log of individuals that um had you know a serious consequence we kept a running tally that there is the ability to keep a family note that's confidential within Community pass we have not utilized that feature um it is something that we can consider based upon the recommendation moving forward um and my only other question I apologize was with regard to the new rule on the swim lessons so um private swim lessons are going to be conducted by public employees the vcp lifeguards um then they're going to be organized through private channels directly through the lifeguard but then paid through the front office at the community pool my concern there is that you're going to have communications that are done on personal devices possibly by like 15 and 16 year olds so I think you know perhaps well my question is really whether or not you've worked with the clerk or or with the township attorney to make sure that any Oprah issues have been addressed um and not at this point something we can look into moving forward the fees are always paid for at the front desk and communication goes through the front office and they just arrange the time when the Lifeguard is not working because they cannot give lessons when they're during an actual shift then then maybe it just needs to be clarified the way it had been described at Rec committee meetings is that you know it's like text messages and stuff like that with the live can reach out to confirm but it's still documented through the office okay so just please make sure that oer concerns are addressed move on to uh the last session the last section sorry for membership grow um what the rec department is looking to do is as much as we send out the mass emails and this year we're hoping to be able to send them out earlier and more often uh when we send those out through Community pass uh for the most part they're only going to people who are already pool members we are looking to get residents that have not tried the pool um and may be considering it so with that said uh we are looking to open or start a Verona specific uh Instagram account we're going to have to go through Administration to make sure we're doing all of that correctly um because the rec department the pool especially there are certain things where although we do have a public information officer and she does a wonderful job there's so many time sensitive specific things to the pool uh maybe on a weekend or at the evening with WEA weather closures uh that you know it would be something that maybe outside the scope of their traditional day uh and that we would like to have for the dissemination to make the dissemination of information more streamline another thing that we are proposing is for early registration to have a survey ready and vetted um to pool members that sign up prior to April 15 almost like a suggestion box that they can uh let the schol administration the town Administration know what they would like to see with uh the pool opening um our biggest goal is again to gain exposure uh to our Target our target market which is non-members um and by doing this maybe we can see what their expectations are as a first your pool member with that initial survey um in order to encourage registration you hear the public um again we would like to send uh the initial season feed feedback and we would like to keep that going throughout the season instead of maybe a midyear one maybe once a month uh to make sure that the whole uh membership is being heard and we're adapting and pivoting uh in a timely manner to their needs thank you right um let you relax for a second discussion from the council just on some thoughts and you might be able Prov an Insight of what we're thinking right now sure I'm G to take unusual step of starting in this process because I largely haven't been um as much participant as others yet um but it's the time it's the time Justa while um and you know take note of whatever uh and this I think this goes my comments go to Mr roboam Administration or new Jen well I I appreciate the detailed report especially from Eugen and and this item it has a lot to digest as far as doing this I think the report and this item leave me with a lot more questions that um than answers in certain circumstances I am very very very concerned concerned about basing a potential pricing strategy on an outof Town membership that cost $2,400 for a season um this is I think the number is doesn't make much sense to me as far as um the number seems to be more to me a number to keep people from joining the pool from out of town than to actually attract people to do this so I think that the council needs to make before we really proceed and I I need to see some numbers on it I think the council needs to have have a preliminary discussion on whether we want to have out of 10 members and and at what point we are going to assess them for that membership um before we can reasonably look at pricing strategy with this assumption associated with it um I think $2,400 is is we have a beautiful tool but part of the only way we make money on that is if people actually take memberships out right and going back to councilman Roman's point about the price elasticity of demand which is one of my favorite things um I I I think our our attractiveness on this is going to be pretty limited 2400 especially when we have a a neighboring pool that dis Charing 16 now our like everything related to S gr our facilities are superior um but the but the but the reality of it is are the $800 more Superior are people who basically want for a pool environment somewhere to whether for children to recreate for uh adults to exercise people to relax is it going to is it going going to entice them enough what we offer the splash pad is one of the big differences between the two facilities and that really only applies to a very small fraction of our population right um that is probably the big difference some of the recreation facilities having been to uh emsil and things that Cedar Grove are familiar with their facility um but same point I think we are pricing ourselves out so in my opinion I know that members in the past had said listen we'd rather pay more than have out of town members at the same point like how much more do you want to pay assuming that we don't want to use fund balance we're talking about a 35% increase in in fees in the first year which I think most of us would probably be less inclined to approve but at the same point that 35% increase based on the numbers that New Gen provided it's going to happen no matter what it's just in how many years it's going to happen right um so and that even with that fee it's under the assumption we're gonna have 50 family memberships that you know $120,000 of our Revenue will come from these out of town memberships if not we're talking about a significantly higher increase right so I think we need to to answer that question first um you know secondly we've discussed some of the elements of the pool that apply to small smaller groups like the splash pad and the rect tent that you know might have a a new um that new Tha which I think is helpful um I certainly I think we should also consider having a base fee and then having additional fees so whereas if you know we have we have these extra two hours you can come in early to use the splash pad or whatever which is attractive to to families with smaller children but we could charge a a fee for that for the additional hours if we're getting some benefit we could charge that and that'll offset and then we could always do it out if we have a 100 people that are willing to pay this fee then we'll open it up two hours early right um but have threshold points we don't want to have it and then let people pay and then we're s you know suffering a loss so I think we need to think creatively about how we structure like are you interested in this and we'll let you know if it goes and not assess the fee until uh everybody goes the I think the other piece of this and this is something that I've asked for multiple times and I have not received and I'm not going to approve any pool rates until I see it at this point is I need to have a clear picture of how many employees are working at the pool at a given time whether it's maintenance the office the managers lifeguards um and and what they're doing at any given time the one part of this that we have not really discussed is economies of um of staff and start having things open is there a time that you know do we do we need exactly how many staff we have um what what our staff doing and I think that is a big part of that being that aside from water and chemicals staff is Personnel is our most significant cost like anything in government and we haven't really had a a discussion about that um and and what we're actually doing and I know that there is a a concern that if you reduce staff and happens well then that could potentially lead to some kind of you know legal claim but people will pay for anything um at the same point if we have a if we have some data to suggest that um you know this is a safe Staffing ratio you certainly that would offset any of those issues but I in my opinion I think we need to really decide the out of town piece first what number we would feel comfortable with as a council and then let that inform the actual fiscal um numbers that we get from New genen and see that report revised I don't consider this a final draft of a report I'm to be honest there are a number of things missing also think that some of the assumptions in this Rob bathams presentation were not addressed in the New Gen presentation um so we need to have a conversation on on that side as well um and I also really want to hear from the rec committee on all of these items and I think the PowerPoint is helpful but we need a you know an executive summary piece of this as well um we have this item what are recommendations do we have a yes or no vote from our rec committee chairperson is in the room do we have a you know an up or down on this why why not if it's a no let's talk about why and if it's something's a yes but I think the council's really going up to show a significant burden to not approve something if the administration and the rec committee have have recommended the same thing um I think it's fine if the committee and the administration disagree is coming from different backgrounds uh and really go from there so I think we have a lot more work to do at this point before we can have a substantive conversation on rates um because I'm not I'm not sure we're at the point where we can meet the assumptions that are suggested in the study um and I I'll hold any other comments so I allow other people to speak uh dep mayor thank you Mr Mayor uh first I consider this a historic meeting because I believe you said start adding additional fees I to for additional service for additional Service uh I think that obviously the simple uh thing here is that we need to we have need to come up with more money so we do it by raising fees uh or we do it by allowing others to use the pool from outside of Verona so uh that is definitely something that we really need to dive into and talk about I I do think uh if we put 50 memberships out there I think we will get the return in no time at all I think people from around here would love to to be in Verona I think it would take away from the neighbors pools but uh we're solving our problems uh the end of your present Rob your presentation excuse me Dave your presentation was was fantastic uh I always love getting information the last couple slides you talk about trying to boost membership uh I think one way we can do that is we had this last year about people uh talking about the price of the private parties that we do uh and a lot of them are for local groups in Verona and I'm going to go to councilman Roman's statement that you don't want to price them out and have them have those preschool parties at another place I think we want to have end of year parties at Verona pool maybe that's a way to attract or get out to Verona residents how great the pool is by maybe keeping that price low and getting the entire maybe put that out to the schools hey bring the second grade class or first grade class and the kids will see the pool and go home and tell Mom and Dad this pool is great we want to join the pool so we may get more memberships that way so instead of maybe raising the price and maybe we lower it to entice more of those groups to come in and use the pool early in the year uh and then maybe we would gain I really think we would gain membership by that and we would get the word out there about the pool so that's just my quick thought on that obviously we have a lot to go through a lot we got tonight and I thank both of you for your presentations tonight for very much appreciate it that's Roman Orthodox suggestion here uh the the pool P cool concert is very interesting if you truly wanted to actually move the revenue needle here we had a concert where we sold alcohol I you know that's the I can yeah yeah I don't know in the parking lot or something like that you almost do like a you almost do like a fundraiser for the pool you know that's if you truly wanted to put some like large dollar amount on the books you know not the greatest thing in the world well the country clubs do it yeah we're charging what they are I mean if you're going to charge a fee that's honestly if you want to put a lot of money on the books maybe you do something like that where it's basically a fundraiser for in the pool um you know idea um I I worry about over you know us getting too far into the weeds we need to come up with a lot of we need to come up with revenue for the pool obviously this is a big chunk of money um I really really do worry about pricing people out and then having the negative effect of of losing out and that's you know a very kind of we have to kind of feel out where that point is is I was worried about that this year um it didn't come to fruition um I do think you know 35% increase in a single year is rate shock and might have that effect um so I did like new gen's strategy of using fund balance to kind of smooth that out um normally I don't like using fund balance for things like that but this is one of those rare ones where you know that may make sense and then the same thing with the out of town memberships I mean it's it's again we all kind of have our sort of our breaking point at which we're willing to do something that otherwise we wouldn't um you know do I believe that we're going to sell memberships at $2,400 a piece I don't know that's why I kind ask the question about what recreational facilities you know other Rec facilities would charge that are not Municipal pools um it would be interesting to kind of know that number uh if you could put that amount of money on the books I mean that's really my concern here is being able to sustainably operate the pool and to me that really requires large chunks of money um you know kind of talking about the small fees and cost recovery and so on is important as well but that doesn't get us up to the six figure dollar amounts that we really do need to be talking here we need to be you know kind of thinking big here rather than thinking small I think it's kind of there's a lot to chew on here but that's kind of where my heads out on some of this right now thank you thank you um I agree that we definitely need feedback from our residents on this in particular the recreation advisory committee um it's my understanding that they have yet to receive this study or the slide presentation that we just re received from Newen they did receive a copy of Dave slides so if we could remedy that that would enable those residents to actually um comment meaningfully on it they do have a pool subcommittee um that is very engaged and interested in these recommendations so I wholeheartedly endorse that I also think it's really important um to get that rate survey out to all of the residents of Verona um not just the existing members but you really want to get it out to as many as possible to to really get a stronger sampling of what the community thinks on this um and personally I am really troubled by some of the policy recommendations that I'm seeing here because essentially we would be substantially if we were to accept the recommendations that were presented today we would be substantially increasing the costs of membership to the pool and charge additional costs on top of that if you wanted to participate in like going to the concert or or other events um but then there appears to be a reduction in services that are available to in particular families that are joining the pool the reduction in the splash pad hours reduction in the rec tent unless we can get the grant funding so I I am troubled by that because if you're going to be paying so much more more like what exactly are you getting you're just is you know could there be an argument that you know essentially then contributes to people not joining the pool which is that you're ultimately paying more for Less that is very concerning I think it is an incredible asset to our community and we it is a place where families and children make summer memories it is incredibly important to keep it vibrant for our Township and I just want to make sure that we don't end up losing that um because of of these concerns so thank you c m well thank you it's hard to say something novel after you know a lot of uh comments that were made by my peers that I do agree with I do think um we need that additional survey data to get to for the for the town residents pool members and existing members to really understand what's selling out of town memberships gets us um and in terms of alleviation of their fees so I think when we've asked the question in the past it's a little vague um we need to get specific I don't know if I agree with we have you know just four scenarios presented given the increase in pool cost I don't know if we ever really should adopt a 0% increase strategy like ever so even if we were to do the out of you know uh pocket out of town members we should probably consider some nominal increase if that was the most extreme step um but I do think that is it is sort of like when we're thinking of a decision tree we do need to get to that decision fairly quickly um I was dismayed that um of the takeaway some of the things recommended in particular The Flash Pad ours only because it was such a consistent comment in all of our surveys to D about the expansion of that those hours for our families that have the youngest of children that are normally it's their first year joining because they have the babies that's why they want the early hours because children nap at noon and so you know to then like strip it away completely so again can we get creative one thing that wasn't mentioned in here was sponsorships look at the we had such amazing sponsorships to open this meeting talking about veterans I sure there's some children related businesses that can sponsor the rec tent for the season can sponsor the splash pads can we instead of scaling back can we get even more creative um and so I I do challenge us to keep thinking big um I do want to recognize that as I already pointed out with some of the program costs like the waves and water aerobics and a lot of people know my story I started swimming I took adult swim lessons at night they were very affordable it completely changed my life I'm like a huge you know supporter of swimming because of the opportunity that our Recreation Department provided um but you know would I have paid $40 more yes because it was such an affordable service compared to like the YMCA which I think is a good comparison point for some of these Services the YMCA of Montclair um but we do need to refresh all of our Recreation fees so I look forward to Future presentations I will say as just a point of feedback I do think some clarity on like for each slide like what are we paying now what are we recommending a little bit it was too much in the verbal notes so I think that would be great for a second draft I gave a note to U Mr oan for New Gen just to make sure we're not double counting uh the caregiver memberships um and I think we have a lot of serious things to think about I do want to applaud the administration for getting us this presentation this early so that we can have the recreation advisory committee feedback and make these decisions not with this time pressure of you know March we have to approve the rates we have to advertise the pool let's make this decision by January I think that gives us a couple of weeks and you know weeks to really sort all this out I look forward to the follow-up information though for me some of you know my my you know how am I going to vote is dependent on some of that followup information that I asked for so I do appreciate that thank you thank you I'll then you know we we caners with the rec committee chair and uh I think the one thing that we have to note at this point that all of us have to note is we are Beyond in many ways what we want for the pool and we have morphed into with the expenses and the the termination of ARP and all that what is going to keep the pool operational and that needs to be our focus is what keeps this pool open the lights on the water flowing you know that's what I I am going to be very focused on um I'm calling for especially when we are rap making so I hope that General all of us can move forward by not getting as into the Weeds on some things and recognizing that you know and really Mr roboam for including data on who has been using these items and things like that because databased decisions are be very effective um but I think we need to the first conversation we need to have is what keeps the pool open and the second conversation once we figure out what keeps the pool open is a lot of the other stuff doesn't actually have that much of an impact on the rate and we need to have a conversation of you know what is our rate just to keep it open and then how much can we save by engaging cost cutting measures and is that worth it and how much more would cost at that point to restore some of these items so I would like to really get involved in that conversation um and you know I think in many ways the both of these reports tell us that we were at a we were at a I want to use the word crisis point but we are at a um uh you know facing some significant challenges with keeping this utility uh moving forward um especially when we will hit a point where we start pricing people out of membership in order to keep the utility going so uh and unfortunately a lot of this is going to be um uh you know trial and error in some ways you know we I don't know we just don't have we don't really have the the economic analysis to know what the the demand for full memberships is at different prices we just just don't have that at this point and we can set up as many surve as we want but things change in a year for when people sign up um so the other thing that we have to really determine is and this has to be a part of it what is our backup plan if we don't get even if we raise prices on our memberships drop what's our backup plan for that um and I am certain that if we're going to relying on outside memberships that we need to have a significant backup plan for that if Ching we are so um let's keep we want to keep it going we think we need to focus on that piece first and deal with the minor pieces that are very important to some people but in the in the scheme of things they are more minor in uh in policy so all right we're moving on to council member reforce thank you Mr keep this short we want uh started tonight at 6:30 with the Unico uh Italian flag brazing I'm very happy they all came out and I thank Uno for all they do for Verona uh it was happy to attend I wish I heard the national anthem uh at the start of the Mets game tonight but unfortunately there was no Mets game uh I have to certainly mention uh the finale of Verona fights hunger week congratulations to the Verona Juniors and all their hard work uh it's just amazing seeing all those bags of food and just knowing what that's going to do to some families in the in the local area because they uh bring the food to the local food pantry so thank them again and uh it's a good great tradition and I I hope obviously hope they keep it we'll keep it going uh and speaking of traditions I like to thank again the Verona environmental commission for keeping walk and bite to school going that was two weeks ago I always enjoy going down to FM Brown and uh walking with the the kids down there was a it's always very very well attended down there and it's a good couple blocks to walk with them and uh that's all I'm gonna touch on thank you for your Suess stepan mayor C Roman in light of the hour I will wait thank you Council Roman councilman MRA H thank you um I share all of the um wonderful words about Bron fights hunger week um it was fantastic I already thanked uh BAC for family night um I do want to highlight that the Multicultural inclusion and accessibility advisory committee is meeting on Wednesday at 7 p.m. the annual Diwali lighting is on the town hall steps on the 30th of this month at 6 PM we will Council um everyone will be getting an email with those details um but I know many of you have gone in previous years it's really a great event it's once again being organized by residents and the Multicultural inclusion and accessibil advisory committee the neighborhood traffic and Safety Committee um is has moved its meeting and it will be on Tuesday October the 29th at 7:30 pm. on Zoom uh we will be talking about the lynen Avenue traffic Administration project and about uh the complete streets policy that they are working on um and shade Tre should have a meeting on uh November the 11 I do just want to reiterate everyone the importance of voting um and uh this is a great opportunity to try early vote um which was already mentioned starts on Saturday um October 26th at our Verona Community Center and that's my report thank you thank you councilman Holland I will just add that I recently attended the recreation advisory committee meeting and there was a robust discussion about some of the topics that we addressed this evening um I just want to compliment the engaged sys on that committee and I look forward to the vmec meeting tomorrow night thank you you this time I'm going open for public comment on any item Madame clerk would you please read the public participation St anyone from the public wishing to speak on any matter please raise your hand by pressing the raise hand button on your monitor star n if you're attending in person please approach the Lector once you're recognized clearly St on Le name Township required to provide your street address however if you these meetings will be posted on the Township's YouTube channel the addresses will not be reacted for you'll have four minutes to address the council there be no cross dialogue during this public for after everyone wish this speak has been heard cancel me this one over here I just want to these to oh thank you hi Jenn yeah hello good evening thank you for opportunity to speak my name is Alan firin I live in Essex Fels um recently I sent a letter to you May uro and to you manager de Aro about noise from the fields and um there is a problem the sound levels are too loud and they're too loud in two places at the fields and at many houses not only in Essex FS but in Verona I just handed um Jennifer a uh list of signatures I got years ago from people who were concerned about this half in the massic SPs half in Verona um I'd like to help you with this I can make this listening all night about how you're concerned about costs a zero cost situation um I'm a professional acoustic consultant I've been doing this for 48 years I know all about sound systems and sound I had a recording studio called sorcerer sound uh we recorded the eight Grammy winning Nora Jones Come Away with me um I've been doing this for over 18,000 jobs helping people organizations Town councils businesses and residents avoid noise problems at my house you'll see in the report if you take a look at I tried to make it comprehensive but easy to understand you can always call me ask me questions the sound levels are 60 DB Now 60 DB is about the sound level you're hearing from my voice at the distance you're sitting from me right now about 60 DB um 60 DB is half as loud as 70 DB subjectively every time you add 10 it sounds to the average person like about a 10 deel that 10 deel increase or change is a two time subjective change 70 is twice as loud as 60 80 is twice as loud as 7 and so on the 102.7 DB I measured sitting in the bleachers this Saturday is dangerously loud and more than 16 times louder than what you're hearing from my voice right now and you can clearly understand me of course with a crowd and people talking you know you have to have it louder but you don't have to have it 16 times louder it's dangerously loud and there's kids running up and down the bleachers and not just kids but adults can get hearing damage from this and it's unnecessary it doesn't have to be that loud the speakers in my opinion are pointed the wrong way they're positioned the wrong way and most importantly there's no sound limiter the sound limiter will not only prevent the levels from going too high but it'll prevent the levels from ever damaging your speakers so I can help with all this it's in my interest and I frankly it's in people's interest not just in my town in your town but also the spectators the people who's you know the parents and kids who are at the game uh the noise levels are actually in violation of the V the Verona noise code um I put that in the handout the um the problem is solvable um wa to help you with it I'm happy to help uh I'm busy but I always seem to be able to make more time I gave me two copies I have a third copy but you want to give it to appreciate it and it's got pictures it shows where I was sitting I was not directly in front of the speaker I measured 102.7 it would be much louder if I walked in front of it and people could walk in front of it you guys all know if you've been to a sweet 16 a bar mitz for a wedding sound levels are very often too loud and sometimes the speakers are in a position where you can walk by it or a kid can walk by it they that the pressure and the pain they feel is danger all my information is in there call me email me I'll help I'll make it zero cost for you thank for your comments we we don't respond until all you don't have to refund if you unless you want to we let everybody go and then we respond let anybody St say one he wants to say I would like to recognize that I believe you the studio plant that I used to take care of just in recognition of your experience in uh Acoustics I recognize your name so I actually used to take care of a facility that I will to the acoustical design for good thanks guys okay good night trans all right I start today I haven't been here in a while obviously uh just busy all right so let's start four minutes basically let's start with the pool um the pool I talk to everybody citizens residents you know you name it I'm all over the place my daughter plays softball my son plays baseball multiple Sports each kid the pool you got to charge you got to raise it up it's just like you said mayor you're not at a point of what do we do what do we do I mean nine months ago I sat in the rec department meetings I sat here and I listen to the same exact stuff how are we G to come up with this much money how are we gonna come up with pennies on a dollar here basically small money is not what you're thinking about you got to raise those rates and you got to make the out of town to like 2,000 and you gota you got to bring them in otherwise you're not going to be able to stay open because as I saw in the New Gen uh study he said uh our water bill is $ 37,400 and right now as I know the town was supporting that water bill um the 177,000 on the maintenance in the building so the taxpayers are doing that you've spent 200,000 in the American rescue plan money over this year probably the past three or four years so how much money are we going to spend until you guys just make the decision we have to raise the rates and you got to allow Out of Towners or you don't you got to make one option and you got to bite the bullet and do it New Gen did a study on the sanitary sewer few months ago and we increased all our sewer things no problem you had to vote for because it came down to it you had to do it well you're going to have to do this um all right lynon let's go jump totally down to that one now the Lyndon study uh is this Lynden road is the same as Claremont it runs parallel it's the same thing Claremont is the only Road in Verona that doesn't have the Belgium Block curves how you guys just replaced on windir and all that stuff um and the speeding is ridiculous on Claremont uh that's just you should have the same exact study that you're having on Lyndon on Claremont um uh the Starbucks on the end of Claremont you guys voted that down uh because of the residence and everything is what I've heard uh so now there's no light going in because well from what people are saying around town is the Starbucks is not happening but right now there's no light there there's no they took down the no left turn sign so there's accidents all the time so you need to put back either the no left turn sign or something needs to happen with that intersection because that's revenue for our town we need to get that property going um Everett Everett uh as you see I coach I've been in this for years since my daughter and son have been young um the reason my team is so successful is the parents that are there and the parents that show up right now vbsl there's a there's a few hundred parents that want to get rid of vbsl and make it to the wck department or something else vbsl you guys are talking to if you go to Everett right now it looks like a pig diey the bleachers are filled of garbage both dugouts home and away are filled with garbage it is disgusting so when you spend all of this money on Everett who is going to take care of it because it is a joke Liberty is locked up and you can't enter that unless you have permission is that going to happen to Everett probably not so Everett is a mess who is going to take care of that and the vbsl is falling apart so bad right now don't shoot the messenger vbsl but you know they are really bad there's parents leaving my son has not played for them since eight years old ever is 12 kids try 30 kids try out 12 kids make the travel teams same 12 kids every year you want kids to play you put it to everybody you give it to the ref Department you do something else with it uh pickle ball and Tennis Courts you have not one basketball court in this town that's not on an education facility or in the pool that I do not have a membership for but I pay the water bill and all the other stuff towards it basically so let's put a basketball court down there instead of pickle ball and Tennis Courts um are we running out of money because we have all these projects we have the sewer on derell the Wastewater test that just got completed on the trunk lines clarage Drive Pump Station the EMS building town hall Windows you have all this stuff coming out and where is this money coming from that's what I want to know it sounds like we're going in debt and please let's get some Belgian block CBS on Claremont that's for Richie thank thank you Mr any other we'll have we'll have another time at the end it's been a while since I've been here any other members of the public who wish to make a statement okay heing not I'm going to clst public comment um to Mr fiream is not here anymore but um I know Mr dico had emailed him back that we were investigating this issue um and that is certainly an issue that is handled by the out Administration um and I'm sure that the you somebody will be able to figure out a way to turn the volume down over there being done already um I just for there are certain Geographics locations based on looking at Maps as well that make the sound much louder um at that residence um just but at the same point um knowing the information about the uh deal level stands is for concerning um hopefully we can address that Mr petrang um there there have been some traffic studies related to Claremont Avenue one of them result resulted in the addition of the sign at comberland and Claremont um it had been a uh that has there have been several box uh data collections that have happened on there I used to live off of Claremont Avenue so I understand what you're talking about uh now I live on another street that people drive too fast on so uh another another story for another day um the Belin block curves or something that gets done when we when we uh reconstruct a Road Claremont had some work done on it not too long ago so it's probably on the low end of the um of that cycle um the township Council had no involvement in an approval or disapproval of any occupant at the um at uh uh 40 Pompton Avenue or 30 pton Avenue from what I understand the the Zoning Board of adjustment did approve certain variances for that and the Starbucks will be going in uh the council approved proved the owner of all of that land to um to put the light in that almost a million dollar expense to the to the uh owner of that property um and that is going in the reason that's no work is because apparently it is very difficult to buy a traffic light it's so hard to get the equipment and the materials uh in the current climate but that light will be going in we have not lost that light as far as the the sign the no left turn sign Mr O solivan I'm volunteering for him to have Chuck just put a new sign in uh that's an easy fix um that explains my Council ran and I saw a guy trying to turn left a the other day when we were coming back from the acur dealership on that day so that might be why if there's no sign there um and uh as far as your comment about spending money I agree with you uh we are in a constant state of debt as municipality it is one of the costs of doing business um and uh and one that I think that you see my comments have been pretty consistent in um in balancing those Capital Improvement projects um we we have a limited Capital Improvement fund that comes out of an operating expense budget uh which we have purchased certain items from this year uh so if we have a we have that or we have a certain amount fund balance that can be applied to that we do do that otherwise our only option is to borrow money to cover these projects we are borrowing a lot of money um so one of the things to note though at the same time is that we have debt that rolls off so one of the things that the council looks at very consistently is when we're going in is One debt is rolling off and one of the items that I have put my foot down on anything related to when we have a capital expense I want it to be expressed by our Administration in terms of what its effect on the taxpayer is going to be um and further we've engaged in the last uh year year and a half in a much more coherent um uh and consistent Capital planning process so instead of in the past we had reviewed Capital expenses kind of halfhazard le as far like one at a time and now we are reviewing them largely just right after the operating budget is discussed so that we can rank those things and um we do ask the hard questions especially if our department has on what we need now some of the items um for better for worse and and it's not really my role to comment on previous councils that I'm not because every Council has to make a set of decisions regarding what is important at that time um I but at the same point whe they're making those decisions not those spending money on other things that need to be done right away um and balancing doing the same Balancing Act we do puts us in a situation where we have to do another Balancing Act um and we are engaging in a lot of those things the one thing that you'll notice from this council is that when we spend money especially millions of dollars because nothing in government cost us a million dollars these days um is that we are trying trying to not only consider the financial impact of it but really make it a facility that or we're spending that is worthwhile so Thus We've expanded the concept plan for things like a field um and uh and our Administration Mr Deo especially has found creative ways to use funding from the county CBG state grants to offset some of the the costs of these items so um I uh what the reasons why I decided that I would like to sit up here um is to manage a lot of that Capital expense and uh and unfortunately I you know I will admit that we've spent more than I planned on at the same point most of our Capital allocations are 50 votes because we recognize the necessity of these items very you know and it's not something that we can that we we can really uh move forward on so you know that that sorry that we cannot move forward on that's probably a better way of saying things so we're in some of those those situations and I think that um you know as we start to reimagine things like grass versus ter fields and the cost associated with that we are going to start to see some long-term uh changes but at the same point I think a lot of the changes that we are implementing are going to take a decade for people to appreciate what the impact of them is going to be so out of fairness but that is my my long answer to your many points but um but as always I I appreciate the uh your forthrightness with your comments and the uh and the the courage of making them um it allows us to review certain things and and but and I will tell anybody in the future if you see a no left turn sign missing just all Kevin o solivan and uh and he'll get a sign that is that is going to be our new rule or just call Chuck Chuck will get you a sign uh Council mcgraph yes thank you on that though a resident did raise that two weeks ago to us so I do you know I'm wondering why it wasn't rep replace then or if it got knocked down or removed again so on that point a resident actually did already timely raise that the minute it went down so I was not aware that that was not fixed so if we can look into that that would be great Paul was out there with his base all that I say at one point in time I counted at that intersection and we had there were five of those signs up at that one intersection which I don't think there was an extra B you could put one if you wanted to and people still turn yeah so the light the light is uh is is going to work there but you know thank you for your comments um the mayor's comments were a very good response just on the capital expenditure piece um I will tell you that that is one of my larger concerns up here is you know our ability to finance all of these things but that is you know part of our duty as a municipality is to invest people's tax dollars in long-term assets on their behalf um communities that don't do that find themselves in infrastructure crisis um you know if you underinvested needs don't go away um one of the things that I do every year in this town is I go around I take a day and I go around with all of our departments and I physically look at every physical asset of this town um I've seen every single water tank every corner of the wastewater treatment plant I think we've opened every door in every single building in the township um and there's there's things that still need to be replaced you know every time like dealing with our roads is like painting a bridge when you're done you start over at the other end of it um that being said a couple of years ago we were operating in a in a very different interest rate environment than we are now um you know we were in an era of cheap money um relatively low oil cost which also made Paving roads cheaper um we are not in that anymore but the needs have car away but there is a time of public demand uh we also hear the op we hear from people you know you need to improve this facility you need to get this done and we also have to be responsive for that and the people are looking for us to develop maintain and improve Municipal facilities we do try and do it in a costeffective manner we ask T of administration a lot of questions about Capital Management we push back on expenses we ask them to you know to to try and find ways to do these projects for Less but you know I will agree with you it's just it it is sometimes overwhelming the amount of capital that we do have to spend but if we don't do it sometimes the results are worse so just please you know please know that we do very intently look at per um and we are now moving on to our favorite part of the evening is during adoption of ordinances the next agenda is ordinance number 20 24-34 on second reading Madam clerk would you please read the title of the ordinance into the record Bond ordinance providing for the Improvement of the sewer line near the pekman river in Township of Verona in the county of Essex New Jersey appropriating $60,000 therefore and authorizing the issuance of $57,000 notes of the township to finance part of theost Cl somebody please move this ordinance so second is made by the deputy mayor and the second is made by Council McGrath now sign for public hearing on ordinance 20243 before the same public comments St it applies or comments must be limited only to this ordinance there none I close public comment is there any Council discussion there none Madame clerk would you call the RO please Council Holland yes Council M yes Council Roman yes mayor M yes mayor Toro yes mayor ordinance 4-34 passes 5 will be published according to law thank you madam clerk the next item on the agenda is an ordinance on first reading labeled H1 Madam clerk would you please read the title of this ordinance into the recording chapter a 5651 schedule fee specifically store water Fe code thank you madam clerk will somebody move the ordinance so Move Motion is made by councilman McGrath is there a second second second is made by councilwoman Holland is there any Council discussion on this item very not Madam call please councilwoman Holland yes Council woman McGrath yes Council ran yes M yeso yes may ordinance H1 will be number 20 24-35 will be published according to Law Public hearing will be held on November 12th thank you madam Clark next up is our consent agenda we have one set of minutes and 18 resolutions anybody like anything remove from consent agendas receive none would somebody like to move the consent agenda J1 and K13 motions made by councilman Roman is there a second Deputy Mayor second second uh at this time I'll call for public comment on the cons agenda same public comment statement of now I close public comment I will open to council discussion uh I will don't see anybody jumping so I have a question on K5 Mr dico I have a question on K5 is the the two Mason dump trucks yes um so it says that the that the purchase of the two Mason dump trucks would not exceed $112,000 not new so these are used two used Mason dump trucks and we're getting both together is it 12,000 each or both together for $12,000 balance for this year this year for both of them collect so so this is a this is a financing Arrangement is this correct at how many years are we the the numbers seem very low so that's why how many years are we that's our strategic work uh I believe next our clients also provided no the the same dump trucks came up in the capital and the yes and we did not approve them because of the the necessity um of the the salt the salt Dome struggle so and we were just talking about the this just a minute ago with Mr pangel so um can we talk about why now we're doing this under operating instead of the capital same same questions I have superintendent that needed both items but in front of the council he requested the sto to is equally important and in advising him that you really can't trade one thing off for another when you get to Capital budgets those trucks were failing you would have difficulty in the snow seat I did get the reviews on this said essential and we really had to put pieces together to do this over a two-year period Well we' had problems in the winter I don't think you'll have that problem in next year's budget items that are needed need not to be concerned about presenting to the council the need and not trading off things that's what's happened here a lot in the past and this and this $112,000 for this payment this annual payment see if I this this is coming from the budget line so this is pre- budgeted money we're not spending anything additional beyond what we spend to 36 month so so three years at $122,000 a year we expecting a Lo payment at some point Le so it's going to be $772,000 next year correct are we leasing these vehicles are we purchasing them out right will we it's a purchase it is a purchase but we're financing these through the dealer rather than using rather than Bond it's a lease to purchase it's a don't the police cars correct so this is an interesting question I guess is that let's say what what happens in you know this this is an annual resolution right so we're right now we're doing this for this year so we have a resolution in January and the resolution Fails Like can you get the trucks back has that work I mean really I think it's I think we need to be clear that we're not spending $112,000 tonight and that we're spending $150,000 tonight that's what we need to be clear on under under DCA budgeting it's always up to the budget Council decision on funding and budgets there's always that Clause if unfunded not not one of the better options that we would have we major snowstorms come January February and we don't have vehicles on the road and the castle that you're you're really you're really pressed I don't see this problem happening again as there was extensive meetings over these trucks with the the CFO myself the deputy manager relative to capital budget requests and planning and what's essential needs to be presented to the council that it is essential and and you can't trade off items just so you're getting what you think that you need rather than what the township does need I explain I don't see that happening again I I guess my next question would be an alternative version my colleague is if we're now taking if we're assuming that there's be $72,000 expense next year is the Assumption also that we'd be increasing the operating budget by $72,000 or in your thinking on acquiring these vehicles have we somehow reduced the operating budget elsewhere by $72,000 exactly there's there's extensive maintenance to the the trucks that 15 to 20y Old adult trucks um so there is an immediate Savings in that you are taking these older very expensive vehicles to maintain p service and replacing them with new more efficient vehicles that's one under Gap you wouldn't be allowed to do this in this direction anything that results in the creation of a durable asset would have to be capitalized you know kind of to present this as an operating expense basically if we're just making the payments on this it's still Capital you know you're still creating a c so just from you know my opinion from a procedural standpoint this I'm challenged in you know how you go about this by simply just saying oh we're just going to have this operating expense here's a onetime request for the rest of the year um you know when realistically this is you know we're buying trucks I think it's slightly different when we lease the police cars because the police car leases are generally coming from the fund that we get from the road jobs and things like that so it's a different it's a different source of Revenue in budget of the municipality so this is just I'm worried that doing this this way that we are now creating an environment where we have less um say in the in the B Bud construction for next year which we don't need to talk about until March April and we don't even approve the budget until then so we're gonna have to be doing another resolution in December to pay for the next several months or whatever it is'll be part of the operating budget no but we have we have to approve we're only making two payments with this resolution as it stands now so this is a I'm not comfortable with the way this is presented I I'm comfortable with the fact that we need thump trucks um but I also to be honest I might have if I knew that this was going to happen anyway we might have pushed the salt d off right so there is a concern about when we kind of said what do you want right away and it was the SALT Thome and now we're the Thum trucks are coming now um can't more on it so I mean it's just one of those things that we have to um take so I procedurally the lawy I don't want to borrow money for these items if we don't have to but are we really hamstringing ourselves if we if we do this can we you know like what is what happens I'd have to look at the contract because as the manager indicated if you if you didn't have the actual money um that would certainly it's usually a reason to get out there's always a question right because what does that mean like if you're really not you know count own is that vibrant town so it would be more of a choice of yours um not funding it so I'd have to review the agreement that we entered into so I I guess we I'm not sure can we put this off until the following meeting so we can those documents I'll get back to you on that the problem is our next meeting is well and if we need these things for S removal we're putting ourselves in a pretty difficult situation um is this something that we could table if you that you could look at as we discuss other things and then we could bring it back new business um I could certainly try to give you an opinion right now sure we could we could we could table it from the consent agenda discuss some of the new business items because we have some that might take a couple minutes and then come back we have the addendum well we have the addendum well that's it yeah that's the only thing that we have business do that so one more one more regarding this particular purchase let me just let Council grab I no I mean I think this is just an example we we really probably needed a summary memo I mean you can sent Jen when when it's cut and dry but this was a unique situation we probably need a summary memo that this was coming our way that's my more that was G to be my last comment oh okay said this would have made a good memo summary complicated situations or changes like yeah this I did not um and you know this is why as five members it's we have different strengths and we pick up on different things in the packet so didn't appear in any of the departmental reports or you know manager is our financing rate through this scheme better than our own po capital I mean obviously the deal finan for Motor Credit are they giving us a lower rate than our bond read I think the intention from our finance officer is to ultimate move this into capital in 2025 so being a buy out so the the our own Finance rates it wouldn't be on the the board financing rat yeah I'm I'm definitely confused on this one uh because we'd be paying their this payment would include interest at this point already because interest is advertised into the into the financing so we would be paying and my concern is is that if we pass the if we put this into Capital are we paying what the the finance company for Motor credit is not going to we'd have to reamortize the the whole item because we would be making a a a summit of payment at that point putting on our own capital and they would have to actually revise the cost ofic I'm just asking one question yes so we went through the6 C so rate cost of capital I don't know I didn't look at our current capital and the co-op but the co-ops are usually at the same rates yeah but the question is can we let's say we wanted to capitalize this in the future but that's difficult to capitalize it because we can't we wouldn't get it until January February at this point right no if we had to capitalize this item and we did it as a bond and we just bought them out right we wouldn't be able to actually take possession of these things for several months because of the of the requirement to actually pass an ordinance for a bond and all of that stuff so this is the more urgent way of doing it but I guess the question is is that assuming now that we bought it through the co-op which is another complicating process can we if we were to capitalize this borrow to pay for it as a capitalized item can you um could we get out of the interest payments are they going to re are they going to release us from the interest payment if we provide a ballue payment at that time like you would in P or home right have to ask Jen and and is there any backup for it we have the resolution in our pack but not contract if we can't if we can't get this information now by recommendation is to have a special meeting on this item once we can get the information do a short special meeting because I don't feel comfortable voting on something until I've seen the contract out the answers to the questions but also don't feel comfortable pushing this off until November 12 right so I think we're in kind of a top position now if the vehicles are available immediately then it's not a big deal to put off until the 12 um but if we're going to do it this way but that's we need to kind of figure out we need to ask them if they can hold our Dum trucks for us I mean in a deposit we take him the deposit without authorizing an expenditure well Mr Taro can authorize certain expenditures as a positive it's going to come back to us he does have that ability if it's already in the budget do that we'll get you so we make the go tomorrow yeah I mean unless anybody wants to vote on this without seeing a contract or understanding this like we could have a vote I'm just a little I'm tough on this one I understand the need but this is procedur we totally backwards from the way that we buy vehicles and equipment I just don't think we have the answers all the questions yet I need to know what we're doing with this next year um custs um if when you're going back and we just understand um from a safety point of view by if we waited to the next meeting and there was a snow event like what would happen so I think I just have also that logistical concern um because we did have an ice storm I'm Halloween there at uh 13 years ago uh no 12 years ago so um so that would be helpful to know and I think that would inform then you know so I don't have a problem with the specials in fact we could have it on Halloween all right um pulling K we'll figure that out so I need somebody to re revise actually we can no I need somebody to because we have a motion on table so we need who made the motion for the conent agenda I need the deputy mayor to revise his motion to I made the motion councilman I need you to make motion to approve the uh J1 K1 through 4 and K 613 you okay with that I will revise my motion accordingly do you agree with that Deputy Mayor yes okay any further discussion on any of the items that is not uh K5 all rightor what you call the all please Council woman McGrath yes coun Roman yes Deputy Mayor mayor Toro yes mayor resolutions K1 to K4 and k6 through 2018 will be numbered one9 um and I'll hear a mo to K table K5 that way we can take off the table in a future meeting without any further issue the table that uh Roman has move to table day five is there a second second second tbling do not have debate Madam clerk was doing all those in favor I I opposed heing none the motion K the resolution K five is T all right we are moving on to our addendum this evening this all right uh we have addendum M1 is our discussion to amend chapter 140 vehicles and traffic which I'm guessing is why our white shirted friend is is here Chief Karan would you like to join us good evening everyone uh as you see on the um the hopefully it reads the same way um clerk cleaned it up for me but basically under 140-3280 6 p.m. Monday through Saturday there were the previous as we move on to the ones we going to the men previously there were supposed to be metered parking all the way up to Brookdale and uh Hill Crest meters have not been there for I've heard 40 other business owners have told me almost 50 years um so this is just more of cleaning up uh an ordinance down below that's not applicable or hasn't been applied I should say and uh in speaking with all the businesses along that stretch 30 minute parking because they are not in the central business district zoned 30 minute parking would do uh well for their businesses was a consensus uh moving down so if we did that 30 minute from Park Avenue East we would then amend uh the meter ordinance to reflect that just for between Park Avenue and H STS correct the 30 minute parking correct the two hour parking would remain in the center of town that is correct those are metered and also the option of Park no so the the amended the 14068 would just reflect that time limit parking that's above and then if you see the no parking certain hours this is 14036 this would be for Gold Street uh there is no parking as it currently reads on the west side of the street from 700 am to 400 PM school days and speaking with um the school as well as the library which struggles with parking for patrons much better to have uh no parking 7:30 a.m. to 900 am September through June um with that that is the heaviest spot for drop off we do have a school guard posted there to cross the children um but after 9:00 am to allow uh parking on the street there would be beneficial to not only people using the municipal building but again the library and the school as well as the business district so that's kind of cleaning up something and um and listening to the feedback that would make a lot of sense afternoon pickup uh is crowded however it's not as uh busy as in the morning when they use that area to drop I've been there in the afternoon and it's pretty busy but I guess the morning must be M why uh no parking on Saturday then if it's related to the school Monday through sat Monday through Saturday toight it should be Monday through uh Monday through Friday September through June that yeah see September through June Monday through satday Saturday oh okay yeah so we want that Monday through Friday that was my mistake that was F and that is it that's pretty easy pretty uh based on feedback and based on the uh police department uh looking at the usage does make sense any further questions or chief K just a quick one Chief uh the Park Avenue to Hill crest why why do we stop we better go to Everett couple spots there or just brookdale's cross you know it was always defined as Hill Crest so we we just mirrored that um you know you start to get into the Beyond Hill just the gas station in the one business at this time yeah that's what I was thinking the one business there they they're they're close to the crosswalk there as well so they're Limited in front of their yeah shop so thank you do anybody have any objection to this being on first reading at the next meeting okay thank you thank you good to see you he next up is our discussion on the town zoning changes our wonderful town planner good evening welcome um so last time I was here there were two things uh um You' asked me to revise the ordinance to uh basically have standards for the commercial entertainment to give a better definition um to look into ghost kit um and then uh also to delete certain language um regarding the existing Town Center requirements for where there was um a maximum seating capacity and the uses being permitted along um on on Lots fronting Bloomfield Avenue to make commercial entertainment or conditional use and it' also ask me to check the height uh for uh the principal buildings and then I I believe councilman Roman had asked me to look uh Research into professional offices um to see what the um you know um rents vacancies and so on and so forth so there was a memo I believe that was sent um as well um so regarding regarding uh the Town Center ordinance we have uh what I've done is uh given a a clearer um a clearer uh definition um and emphasized and I want to discuss that with you for commercial entertainment shall not include uses such as dance halls I think I I expanded it uh first to include uh in the prior iteration had bowling alley ice skating pool and or B rooms and then I expanded that to include Escape rooms indoor rock climbing gyms indoor tennis or pickle ball courts and um that commercial entertainment shall not include uses such as dance halls or nightclubs um I've also provided a def