meeting minutes from September 28th 2023 does anybody have any comments or changes or any corrections seeing none would somebody like to and by the way the appendix of the um resolutions are not being voted on they've already been voted on but they're just packaged together with this so would somebody like to move the meeting minutes from September 28th 2023 move did I get a second I'll second them so moved by Mr katsof seconded by chair Pearson uh do we roll call I for minute okay then it's I all members I'm abstain I was only here you're abstaining we have two exensions we have 1 2 3 4 five yay votes got it okay um okay we have no consistency determination we have two resolutions on the agenda this evening uh resolution Mr coody seconds can we get a roll call vote please on resolution appointing Kathleen MCH as secretary to the planning board Mr Bernardo yes Mr cser yes Mr Heyman obain Mr coody yes Mr Jacobson yes mayor Toro yes chairperson Pearson yes the uh resolution passes and the second resolution resolution 20 23-18 appointing uh the planning board Township of Verona appointment of professional planner uh h2m um can I get a motion Mr coody moves I'll jump it's a it's a it's a dig it Tommy Tommy seconds can we please get a roll call Vote for This Mr Bernardo yes Mr capes yes Mr Heyman Mr coody yes Mr Jacobson yes mayor tamboro yes chairperson Pearson yes the motion passes or the resolution passes um this evening on our new business which is our next section uh we will be handing this presentation over to Carrie bass and Jamie bornat from sustainable Verona on uh their findings and uh Research into the heat Islands in Verona please welcome thank you just make sure your mic is on ready for me here M okay thank you yes ma'am thank you for having us I'm Carrie 30-year resident of Verona chairperson of sustainable Verona um the Green Team also work full-time in finance for a health care company and Jamie's an engineer uh we are here tonight to present to you our findings uh regarding heat Islands in Verona um just in case anyone is not aware there is a nonprofit organization called sustainable Jersey and their uh mission is to assist municipalities with becoming more sustainable and in order to do that our requirement is to have a green team so that's why Verona has a green team in case anyone ever wanted to know um it was started a few years ago and in 2021 um we achieved I wasn't on the team at the time but the Green Team achieved uh bronze certification and what that is is is it's a sustainable Jersey provides a framework uh which is uh a points system of of sustainable actions that the the municipality can uh complete uh a number of points and that that gives you the certification so to continue with that momentum the Green Team Will Be applying for silver certification in 2024 um the way that that it works is a lot of the actions uh are renewable so an example of an action is uh like prescript the prescription drug drop off I think that was something that was developed as part of uh the bronze certification we can renew that it's still ongoing it's still active it it it's a it's a functioning action so we have a lot of actions that we will be renewing and then there will be some some new actions which is brings us to the heat island action um Additionally the psng institute for sustainability studies which is is I believe they might be housed at monair State University they offered a program where you can apply a municipality can apply and receive some assistance in completing actions from moner State graduate students so we applied and we received um the assistance of three graduate students this past spring uh on the application we had to list four actions that we were interested in completing and they chose one and they chose this heat island action and that's how we ended up working on this action the students that we received were all gr we got three graduate students and they're uh all graduate students in sustainability studies um so basically what they did uh they we met with them and they chose to research three topics that were related to heat Islands uh one was albo one is green infrastructure and one is Turf um so I just wanted to give that background before we go into the paper which I know you all have a copy of um the paper is what we put together is what we will be submitting to sustainable Jersey and part of the requirement is to go ahead and say this have haden't said this already the part of the repart is to present your findings to the planning board so it was an interesting action um and when you think of heat Islands U I'm actually going to jump to let's see that we have a a table of contents and really the way we broke down our table of contents was by the requirements um for the points so there's tier requirements you can get 5 10 15 or 20 points for this action like I said for silver certification we have to get we have to reach 350 points so it is a point system and you have to complete a certain number of um initiatives to to get your points so that is how our table of contents is broken down you'll see we have really part of tier one is is showing where your where your heat islands are um the map um the inventory and your planning board presentation and then if you take it a step further you can identify m a mitigation plan or strategies to address your hotspots um and that is kind of we based that on the research of the students when we came up with the mitigation plans um when you think about heat Islands uh I think you might hear the term Urban heat Islands so it's really something that you might see more in a city um um through sustainable Jersey website actually you can go onto their website and you can see all the towns that have applied for this action and you can read their reports so I did do that just to see who else has done this um a couple towns actually didn't really have heat Islands but Newark was one of them new Newark has 17 heat Islands um hotpots uh Woodbridge has eight um and Verona has two so the heat island is really a a parcel of land that where the surface temperature in hotter climates is hotter than the rest of surrounding surrounding areas did I capture that okay all right so let's go to uh we do have an executive summary which kind of explains what the paper is for that's page three and let's jump to Verona's heat Islands uh on page four so this is the map um this map is provided through a link on the sustainable Jersey website uh they use landat 8 satellite imagery um to show surface temperature and you can zoom in anywhere in the country and you can see where your heat islands are which are represented by like a dark red or a dark orange so the first map that we pasted in we had the the borders and we're just showing the aerial view where Verona is yeah where Verona is is the borders and and then where the heat islands are um and then we specifically profile them so I think I'll just jump to the next page where they're they're numbered so now we're on page five and we do have to number our heat Islands so the first heat island in the dark red you can see that is actually the turf fields at the high school um the the Paul GS field the second heat on is the pilgrim shopping plaza and then we did number notate um 3 four five and six which number three is at Centennial Field number four is the municipal center actually kind of around the police station uh number five is really asphalt parking lot at uh Richfield and then number six you can see is the the corner of um Pompton and Bloomfield Avenue and it's I think it's the Acura dealership those aren't showing is dark red but we do we did Point them out um we wanted to note that when we started with this action the map on the sustainable Jersey website was from 2016 and so we asked them for a more recent map and we're actually and we were actually able to do a comparison so in 2016 I actually don't have this in the report um but you do but it's a little blurry so I might we might add it but um in 2016 the two Islands were Centennial and the pilgrim shopping plaza and in the past 6 years the Centennial Field got a little lighter and we believe that is because of the uh maturity of the trees and then the doc uh doc GS field the turf field wasn't there six years ago um so now it is showing as more of a prime primary Hotpot so we thought this was all pretty interesting um didn't know these existed in Verona and um does anybody have any questions up to that point so then we take a look and we have do if we as part of the requirement we H we have to do a couple different views so if we go to the next page page six they have a and this is all through the heat Island map the link through sustainable Jersey um they want you to show the tree canopy cover um and obviously you can see you know where Verona Park is and and where the the darker aspects of Hilltop um we did I did ask them why uh The Hot Spot number one shows dark green and they said it's a little misleading because the turf shows it that way even though we know that there's no really no tree cover in that area um they also do uh the next page on page six they um want you to show kind of a social vulnerability map the social vulnerability is the community's capacity to prepare for and respond to the stress of hazardous events um brona doesn't really have a lot of social vulnerability this is what showed up and then we also have to had to provide a grid a table and inventory of Verona's hotspots um so that that concludes our profile section that's our inventory that's what's happening in Verona um and that is what we saw kind of over a six-year period then we move into tier two where we get into our mitigation plan kind of our strategies so when you think about heat Islands I actually heard recently that 2023 is now considered the hottest year globally on record so when you think of heat Islands you think of them in relation to um extreme heat um we're having some more we're seeing more extreme temperatures we're seeing um longer dur ation in heat waves and then you think about how does that affect your town and how does that affect um you know if you have if you have heat Islands so the first um we did walk the field um with the students we did site visits and and we did notice you know there's there's not a lot of trees planted around this field uh it gets very hot in the summer um we have some notes Here I actually if you go to page eight I actually bought a surface temperature thermometer uh off of Amazon and I was interested in all of the reading there's such an abundance of literature out there about Turf itself um but this report is really regarding Turf in relation to surface temperatures so how hot does it get um so I went I believe it was on my phone it's July 29th it was like a 90 degree day and I went over to that the field and I stood over the 50 yard line and I took a temperature reading and on the turf it was 130 degrees surface temperature when I did leave I said oh I I should probably take a temperature of the grass I probably need to add that in here but I was walking on the asphalt path and I just saw a patch of grass and I took a temperature and it was about 98 de so was so you can see that it's pretty evident that the turf the surface temperature of the of the turf during during a hot summer day can get exceedingly warm so when you think about that as a Township as a community you know what does that mean um can we cool that now obviously we're in the Northeast so this might be more of an issue in Texas or Arizona yeah uh you know when they when they're having you know 100 100 degree days uh so we did have to come up with so so how do you want to address that what would you want to do about that we did notice um on the field again back the we're still with the the doc guls field there is patches of grass along the fence inside the fence running along Samson so we thought that that would be a good place for tree planting um the shade tree commission did work with the Board of Ed and they applied for funding for trees and they had a few trees that they wanted to plant there but the they got a response that the funds were exhausted but we do think that that would help um another idea that that you know the students and and we came up with in in doing the review is maybe um and these are things that we also saw that were have been successfully um carried out with in other places or maybe installation of canopies removable removable removable canopies maybe over the bleachers or over the um the dugouts uh I know that when the marching band had a practice they use they set up some tents um I know that the the marching band camp is the last week of August uh we did look into there are products out there that actually are designed to cool Turf I there's you can water down the fields there are um there are Turf cannons there's actually a product like teac cool I spoke to the owner of the company to ask him how that worked and that's another pellet but it's a more natural pellet but it's actually you you spread it I think like a fertilizer and it cools the turf um and then there's also you could restrict the use of artif where I'm on page 10 uh D you could restrict the use of art artificial turf um in future development and and you consider the use of of something that's um more natural and doesn't get as hot um one of the things that I saw in the research was that you can restrict the times and the usage um my daughter's a softball player so when you think about um that softball field and she was a pitcher so the pitcher is really the player that's in motion most of the game she played in a summer travel league and she did end up getting heat stroke it was a 90° summer day so when you think about your players um your marching band members you know how can you protect them from extreme heat uh so we had a couple examples here this is from Maryland um the the Maryland the Montgomery County Public Schools so they have developed heat guidelines and they're posted on all their artificial turf fields and those are that these are the three bullets like anytime the outdoor temperature exceeds 80 Dees coaches exercise caution in conducting activities on artificial turf fields when outdoor temperatures exceed 90° coaches may hold one regular morning or evening practice before noon or after 5 when the heat index is between 91 to 104 degrees between the hours of noon and 5 School athletic activities are restricted on artificial Turf to 1 hour uh with water breakes every 20 minutes so these are things to consider um regarding that field these are some of the mitigation strategies that we came up with and how to deal with the you know extreme temperatures the any questions before we go to the next Heat Island um the second heat island is the pilgrim shopping closet have question sure or two sure um just on the um the heat index from what you just said um is it more about like public safety for people like in that area or is it yes are you also trying to like mitigate say like you know the the it's it's you know diffusing into the climate and you know as a as just a spot to cool down climate change it's in that area right so as a municipality okay we have two heat Islands what do what can we do toing protect the people that are there at that time that are there at that time yeah right okay I'm sorry guys yeah just and um listen plant trees wherever you want but you did mention you know more trees the better I I just you mentioned also funds being exhausted so use them wisely and the places I see uh particularly on Samson that's on the North so I don't know if you're going to get you know based on that that the sun is more Southern so I don't you know if you're calculating that just we were thinking of what I was thinking of Cu my son did marching band and I remember delivering him lunch one day I'm shameful to admit I delivered him lunch um because I probably hadn't packed it in the morning uh they all had the break and they were all under trees they just ran to the trees so I was thinking at least at least it's a place to go if you're feeling overheated um and so right you may not get the index down yet thank right may not get the index down but it's a respit right in for like say parents watching or something like that so okay or elderly yes thank you that was our thought I had a question uh just in terms of additional mitigation strategies like the you you noted installation of canopies um have there been any products like reflective tarps or anything that have been successful and at least keeping the temperature low when not in use and then you roll it up when then you need to use it what things like that could happen and also uh the color of the turf they've used lighter color Turf kind of for the same thing so it's more of aent thing where um the turf is naturally reflective so yeah that that would help yeah and one of the ideas what we noticed was the the boys baseball field they kept the initial dugouts which are pretty much completely covered cement but the girls dugouts had like a plexiglass back so they're kind of uh so the sun could beat right in on their backs so there's no relief there's no um hiding from the Sun so maybe installation of a canopy over the you know the the girls that are warming up uh the ones that are sitting in the Dugout the coaches Etc that was where that idea came from that was gen's idea Carrie I don't know if you said it before but is the lower Athletic Field is that sprinkler I don't think so we didn't I don't think we saw sprinklers I know Centennial was sprinkled I don't know if do sorry I don't know if I missed it but were their mitigation strategies offered were I guess items two three four and five I see I guess one and we focused on one and two the hot because they were the dark orange right and um really the other four locations what we wanted to note was in the six years they've gotten darker so when you think about the ri and we were going to say this in the conclusion but when you think about the rising temperatures you want to not only focus on your heat islands that you have now what can you do to keep them from getting worse what can you do to keep any more from forming you know think about what what's the map going to look like 6 years from now what's what's the relationship between the the major hotpots and the ones that are now developing what what is there they're just not as like they're not 130° surface temperature on a 90° day they're not they're not emitting as much heat yeah so like if you look at the types of of um for the less hot ones so one of them is is also a strip mall but when you compare it to Pilgrim shopping center Pilgrim shopping center is huge and like the the all the asphalt and all the dark roofs it's it's a much bigger thing so it's going to just the sheer mass of it just compounds it and it makes it hotter just because it's it's not broken up so you do have a strip mall um also at Pompton between uh Pompton and Bloomfield but it's just not its big so it doesn't get at hot and there are more trees trees cover in the area same with the parking lot um the Richfield Richfield parking lot it's it's hot because it's an big asphalt area but it's just not as big as Pilgrim so in comparison the longer that those main areas go untreated the greater I guess what we're saying with the six years is the longer that that those main areas go untreated the worst these sort of waterline areas will become over to yeah especially if if we're seeing hotter days days in general everything's going to be compounded like everything's going to get a little worse so if we have naturally hotter days in the summer those areas that were once orange or maybe just be red if all conditions are the same just hotter days they're going to be also hotter yeah so it it would be good so the requirement for tier two was just to do mitigation strategies of the two red spots of the um but we were supposed to we are required to profile all the the yellow orange and reds but give mitigation strategies just for the Reds um but you know if we can tackle the Reds the other ones will use the you could use the same mitigation strategies there so like we should talk about yeah we'll talk about that um because there's there's a lot you can use in in these areas as well so moving to page 10 I don't know if you any of you have been to say to grocery shop at the pilgrim Shopping Plaza on a hot summer day you I have you know you can really feel the heat coming off of the asphalt um and they also have a very dark roof so it it's it's it's defin and you see this like uh and when I looked at wood woodbridge's paper one of their hot spots very dark red was a Walmart Super Center so this is this is you know usually usually what this is very common um so the pilgrim shopping plaza we did reach out to the owners we didn't get any response because we do feel like there are some things that you can do um so we did look at uh albo which is you know the amount the the solar the reflection um so uh VHS it looks like it has a a lighter roof um and the I don't think the high school was showing as hot um but the dark roofs definitely make a difference when you think about you know we talked a lot about the pilgrim Shopping Plaza because I don't know who pays the energy bills but you know with a lighter roof and and and more trees um and maybe awnings you know maybe you can take the temperature down a little bit you also want to think about your I mean if I were the owner or if I owned uh a business there you think about your clientele and clarage is right around the corner they they Pro I would think that the elderly probably avoid that Plaza in the In the Heat of the day um and then I you know some of the stores uh I noticed a lot of them pull Shades because at 6:00 in the afternoon the heat is beating right into their windows but some of them like there there's a new stretch lab they want PE I think they want people to see into that into that business and see what they're about so they don't want to cover their they don't want to pull blinds so you don't know what they are but the sun just beats right in there so if you think about an option like having awnings at least the awnings would cover that big cement walkway provide shade provide rest from the Sun provide some coolness um so we have uh albo as a as a possible mitigation we have one of the students studied green infrastructure and we did take a picture this now moving to page 12 they really have nothing in place as farest trees or even any type of um green infrastructure and they do have these little Islands there and they're mostly filled with stone um that's that's an option and and Awning so that's what we talked about regarding the shopping plaza um you know it's privately owned so we can only do so much I I tried to reach out to them because I thought they might be more amable to maybe just say listen this we have these students and they and they did some research and they want to present to you their findings you know you don't have to do anything that we say but we just wanted to let you know you know your shopping plaza showed up on our map as as a heat island um it gets extremely hot one would think as a business owner you know can we do to cool that down so that people aren't avoiding us super hot there uh in the summer so that's that was our second Hot Spot um and that's that's what we came up with for for the pilgrim Plaza and that was basically it uh we have a conclusion you know that we recommend implementing some of the recommended mitigation strateg outlined in the report so we would get another five points if we can prove that one of our mitigation strategies is implemented and that could that could even be just restricting times um use times on the the field in hot days um we do recommend to start with Hotpot number one since Verona has more control over that space um and then the committee recommends exploring and implementing alternatives to Art artificial turf incorporating green infrastructure and increasing albo for any future maintenance and development projects so we just would we just one thing I've noticed with sustainable Jersey is is a big part of the mission is just building awareness um you know I didn't know these hotpots existed before this before I joined the green team so um just being aware of of what's happening in Verona uh and and um from a sustainable perspective you know what you can do to mitigate any of these things uh so thank you for hearing us and taking the time to read our paper and we hope that um you've gained some insight about it just a uh I thank you for your presentation just a couple questions have you spoken to the school district about this I mean the township really doesn't have a lot of say of the school district property have you spoken to them and if you have what has been there I haven't spoken to them you know the sustainable Jersey has a whole another program called sustainable schools uh it's like an arm um where they do a lot of stuff so that is kind of on we we just joined the green team last year and then I took over as um shair in the spring um because because people had to move as often happens in these committees um so I would love to partner with the um the schools I feel like what I'm seeing in one of the reason one of the main reasons I joined because I really wanted to understand recycling better and um coming from a finance background I feel like there's a lot of opportunity in this day and age um to to become more sustainable um but also maybe um defay some budget items right so uh you know and then meet and then working with the schools would I think would be a good partnership I know that Carol Thomas on the shade tree commission she's the one who applied for the grants for the trees so she does work with the schools because she has that in with the schools um but no I haven't spoken to them yet about it I think she made them aware that it that this is exists um I mean I I would contact the superintendent I I think the if one of the goals is to get the recommendations implemented implemented the the owners of pil Plaza I have a suggestion for you on that but okay po pla aren't going to be super responsive unless you organize a little differently right um but in this circumstance with the school district the superintendent of schools is a scientist by by training okay um and would certainly be receptive and in my experience is receptive pretty much anybody coming in um I'm not going to you I don't speak for the district but I would reach out to her because there are some things you know the fields are not being used right now obviously you have about four months before they start to be used again this is a good time to start thinking about some of these items that may I would start with the ones that are the lowest cost items and easiest fixes before going into the other the other pieces um because I think that we we' get further as far as your certification if we got something implemented I'm happy to make that connection for you m the on the um pan Plaza piece the owners of pan Plaza may not they don't necessarily care about people get going to the businesses or not because they get their rent regardless it's the tenants who are going to push the landlords there to do that so my suggestion would be start presenting your findings to the business owners and managers within of the individual businesses and suggest to them that this could actually reduce their energy costs right it could pull more people in um and certainly I mean that that facility is highly unattractive also right so you know even you know planting a couple trees would be big I don't know if awnings further in the front would be possible because of the fire Lanes ENC on the fire Lanes but there is a large covered area there already but it has a a dark roof right right um but I would I would start to talk to the business owners directly and then get them to see we think that we think that a white roof would have some impact yeah I mean anything along that line but the problem with that facility is it's not you know it's it's not a it's it's a difficult facility for a landlord right um where it is and with long-term rentals and things like that so um it's one of those things to consider but okay individual businesses they're the one who want more business right um and potentially have some uh remedy to the situation so start there I mean they generally would have more access to the landlord and a lot of people call landlord might be more willing to respond I was I was going to also bring up whoops I was also going to bring up that when we were doing our master plan uh we did have a long discussion about basically redrafting the zoning code around the pilgrim Plaza um obviously we all probably saw in the news that Target is coming to West Orange and there's a lot of people that are very upset that even that parking lot is being underutilized from the green infrastructure perspective um and that is something that we really uh got a lot of support from our planner uh when we were talking about that section now obviously as you brought up it's privately owned right um so any Redevelopment plans are going to basically have to come from them but if the zoning code is redrafted then they would have to comport to uh some of the regulations and requirements of the zone so I I did want to just add that and if I'm not mistaken don't they really I mean I remember cuz I'm helping Carrie with some of the actions to get um certified as a silver certification and I've spoken to a couple of the people at Sustainable New Jersey on the phone because I obviously I don't know sometimes there are a number of things that are necessary to qualify for the action right yeah and you almost have to talk to somebody they're very strict about SE separating sustainable schools from sustainable municipality and they they're like well you can't really talk about that unless your town government had something to do with it in other words if it has to do with the schools then it's almost like they're almost telling you you're wasting your time doing work with the school system if you're if you're looking for points unless you're doing it from the sustainable schools have you found that to be the the case in your for the you know while you're looking to get certification or do you think that there is an opportunity to get both sides to work together and be able to glean points for for certification from that you know I'm just looking at the the yeah the fields for for tier three like so we're going up to tier two on this one I think for tier three where you have to actually Implement something I think that's where we separ out this is just a profile recommendations we're not contacting the board or the um you know yeah the education board so I think it's it it is separate right and then once we actually have to like get things into the ground I think that's where and we'll look into that yeah and the other question I had is obviously I saw the pictures of other areas as uh Chris brought up before you know different areas one of them that looks like it's on its way to Turning is Evert field which is obviously a discussion that's being had by multiple arms of of our Township right now in so far as what its future may hold it actually looks like it's on its way to becoming a problem spot so if Turf were installed there what are we looking at we're looking at bright orange right okay I just wanted that to be stated clearly thank you yes in relation to yes um we as sustainable Corona have um and and U one of the students chose Turf and there's more problems with Turf than heat Islands um but that's what we focused on for the purposes of this and you know yes it would it would it would turn yes and I I find it interesting that you one of your mitigation tactics for the turf fields was reducing the play time on them which is the exact opposite of the reason why people put Turf on fields because they think that it's going to increase the kids play time but not in the summer it's not because that's when it's dangerous right it's it's literally dangerous okay thank you so much Carrie could could you just um review certification again a little bit and the benefits of C certification and also as it relates to the private properties uh properties like pkon Plaza I mean we have these sites all the state are there any incentives that are coming from the state or the FED to help Drive some of these mitigation tactics especially in in properties like that good question looking up our actions like our our planned actions um so the act so the actions are very varied and so here's an example well there's the actions that the environmental commission is completing have to do with enhanced storm water management um open space plans natural resource inventory we have the shade tree commission completing actions regarding a tree a tree Hazard I think what he's asking if if I could clarify is in order to implement some of these mitigation tactics he wants to know if the state of New Jersey is giving any incentives for property owners that own these properties that have these issues any sort of financial incentive to install any of these mitigation tactics is that what you were asking yep okay so if the state is helping Aid or fund some because I think Christine was mentioning them too um we would have to look into it more but I believe I believe there are especially like um the roofs like the converting to White roofs I believe there's some subsidies yeah I'm just trying to link it back to our what will ultimately be a larger master plan discussion and kind of link it with what we're trying to achieve here right and tie it together with additional incentives to see how there might be a relationship between the two yeah I bet you there are yeah just yeah I bet well yeah I mean I mean obviously the pilgrim Plaza site right is um I mean it's 1960 storm water manag right it's it's clearly a it's clearly a it's clearly a problem but it's also a problem that is being experienced throughout the entire state right and so there there should be um I would suspect that there's there's a way to sort of tie it together with what we're trying to achieve here through the master plan I would just be curious to see if in the last budget cycle if if um if any incentives especially you know with the larger Statewide discussion that we're having about sustainability I'd be curious to see if there was anything in the last budget that um that uh allowed for either tax incentives or other incentives for properties specifically like that to uh to make some of these changes because they make you know a lot of sense um from a number of different perspectives so I I will tell you this Chris that the state has made storm water utility system so I would say what they're doing is they're disincentivizing creating what we see at Pilgrim Plaza by allowing and enabling municipalities like Verona to basically pass a a storm motor utility that would create income from those properties that have little to no green infrastructure little to no infiltration on their site and they would have to pay a fee per year in order to continue its existence in the same manner um I don't know if any municipalities have actually adopted the storm water utility it's obviously um it's very new and I think a lot of people a lot of municipalities are a little bit uh intimidated to start passing that as a as a rule um those utilities could even apply to homeowners that have gone over on their impervious coverage percentage wise uh according to the the zoning code so it gets tricky because you can't create two different classes of citizens the commercial properties versus the residentials it would have to be across the board and I think that that's why it's not been passed but so there's the opposite of incentive that exists out there but nobody's using it at this point I mean that that's just there's a lot of grant funding out there so Carol is from the shade tree commission she's now applying I think she's applying for a grant to expand the community garden right so there's a lot of grant funding there's a whole page on grants but as far as for incentives for private and that's what I was getting at like the list of actions most of the actions are around they they improve the municipality sustainability not really they don't really affect like private businesses um but there's a lot of grant money uh as far as incentives for private I'm not sure yeah we look into it it's interesting question if I may uh I think a couple of uh to if uh incentives to to get Implement things implemented there in the private property think two one is with the albo with the roof you could sort of in incite the uh the tenants as you said you're an engineer with like I don't know how I'm sure you could calculate it but you might need to know their HVAC systems but you'd be able to say look you know crunch you would be say you know that's you know you would save $50,000 a year because I'm sure it's a lot um or you know in that month and you know they might doce the landlord just paint the roof I mean there's you know there's whiter than white these days so dark um and it would be a you know big difference in an incentive uh because their bills will go down and that's a true environmental savings it's sustainable because that means less energy is going there to cool it um the second one this goes more on our side is the only thing I could think there is on the the green infrastructure is the it's very odd exits and entrance to the the lights now it's County Roads so that makes it if there's some way we can say hey we could improve the traffic here by by not doing this you know ridiculous kind of turn in and go right and out of that find an opportunity to put some green keep in mind they also have to you know I always think of the piles of snow so um you know not just not designing their partn um anyway the it somehow maybe the traffic going in and out is is a hook for us to put some influence you know the town or something they're they're going to end up resoning that property at the council level and come up with some kind of a brilliant and genius plan to force their hand to to change that kind that ridiculous parking lot to make it a better fit for everybody for everybody and I mean right now that water when when it rains right ppon Avenue right into Cedar 100% of that water goes right there yeah I like you know it's a hydrogen dioxide tax it shouldn't it shouldn't even be leaving it should be infiltrated somewhere but anyway that's a whole another subject that needs but the ask what the timeline is for for that resting um they're going to be working on it in the very near future they just the the projects in progress we've retained the same planner that was approved t tonight um so and the planners have started working on it it's going to be in two stages at this point so we're looking at probably um some drafts by the summer and then it would take a little while longer after that to fine tune and Codi we're probably looking at a year out from now realistically yeah I'm finding that the timing of this action has been actually beneficial yeah bring these things to everyone's attention so thank you thank you so much this is very helpful thank the students for us time and effort you guys put into that it's a great report thank thank you is there anything else from anybody from the board if not motion to adour Second mayor makes motion second Mr Jacobson second dinner time