##VIDEO ID:U4ipbPYNi3w## e e e e good evening it is now 6:29 and I call the regular meeting of the victoriia city council to order um it is our tradition to begin with the Pledge of Allegiance if able we invite you to join us flag the United States of America and to theic for it stands na God indivisible with liy and justice for all all right the first item on our agenda is announcements our uh Victoria fire station will host a recruitment open openhouse on September 11th at 6:00 p.m mark your calendars if you are considering answering the call and would like to serve your community please attend the recruitment open house or reach out to our fire chief Dave shoger to learn more other announcement the League of Women Voters of Eastern Carver County will be a sponsoring we be sponsoring a candidate forum for Victoria municipal offices at our city hall right here in council chambers this week Wednesday September 11th at 7 pm. The Forum will be a broadcast live on the city's YouTube will be broadcasted live on our City's YouTube channel as well as Mediacom Cable channel 8 the recorded video will be later available through the League of Women Voters website and another announcement final announcement of the evening the city is hosting a blood drive in partnership with American Red Cross on Tuesday September 19th from noon until 6 at the Victoria Rec Center call 1 1800 redcross or visit redcrossblood.org and enter Victoria Community to schedule an appointment all right that's it for announcements our next order of business is to adopt the final agenda council is there a motion to adopt the final agenda motion second motion uh and second have been proposed all in favor I you we'll move on to the next item which is open Forum open forum is the opportunity for anyone to address the Council on an item that is not on the agenda and not at an application form that will be coming to the council at a future date is there anyone in the audience who would like to address the Council on an item that is not on the agenda and not an app in application form that will be coming to the council at a future date seeing none okay let's move on to our next item which is the consent agenda items on the consent agenda are routine administrative do not require deliberation or housekeeping items required by law uh consent agenda items are approved with one vote unless someone requests an item to be considered separately Miss Hardy does staff wish to pull any consent items for a separate discussion and vote none from staff Council any items that you'd like to see pulled for separate discussion and vote 5.4 okay uh let's noted that council member Gunderson intends to pull item 55.4 is there anyone from the audience who'd like an item pulled for a separate discussion and vote okay Council may I have a motion for the balance of the consent agenda please I'll make a motion for the balance of the consent agenda this evening second okay all in favor I okay now on to item uh five 4 which was removed from the consent agenda for a separate discussion and vote so I quote this item um because if you um if it is approved um as the privilege um to to be done um and I want and I want to tie back something else um holy family's been in the community is in the community um and we've done some things for Holy Family to kind of help and neighborhood to kind of correctively maintain an intersection I don't think that it I I was I didn't think it was warranted I don't the city and research showed that it maybe was warranted uh it hasn't really corrected any behaviors coming from coia uh today I almost got T-boned going through that same inter intersection okay the the driver was a holy family driver I've called the principal I've talked about how Holy Family drivers need to be better and need to do better I'd like to see a consequence happen that if we can't get that driving situation under control that this goes away that if we if Holy Family can't get better drivers or make their students their families anybody going there with a white Holy Family sticker on the back of their bumper to understand that we have done traffic mitigation efforts to make that intersection safer yet people are still driving through the stop signs that we put in then what do we put stop signs in for and you can tell when it's a holy family driver because they got the big white and green HF on the back of their car so I would not like to see this past if it can't put any consequences behind driving improvements that's where I'm at on this if they can't do it in this neighborhood if they can't get their drivers if they can't make them understand that being a good resident and being a good student and being a good driving student as part of that then maybe they shouldn't get to fundraise for their school any other comments on 5.4 uh I'll I'll make a comment on in respect to council member of Gund concerns I share your beliefs that we need more accountability from the few student students that do disrespect the traffic laws that we've established in this town um I I also share that we also have done a fair amount of accommodations to make holy family a good neighbor I don't feel that withholding this gambling permit is the appropriate solution to the problem it's what I said High consequences to well I I think that the reality that as I it is that we'll make a benefit that could UE to a large number of people and the community held hostage so to speak to trying to say change Behavior I I I think that an appropriate course of action would be to have and we can invite the members of the holy family community to a workshop to show that we're serious in this town about having the students that violate those laws uh held accountable now on the other side I also see other residents of our town who are not Holy Family committing the same egregious acts the four-way stop sign in in my view and the view of my neighbors is a massive approvement and I can recall that when those subdivisions were put before both Planning Commission and city council that this this was one of the things that we wanted and the Traffic Engineers told us no and then UL ultimately through our strength and resolve we said the the better decision here is not what the metric show but what the people show it's it is an intersection that does cause for concern and there are other we've talked about other Solutions as well um some of them might be a little bit unpalatable such as a flashing red line around that sign which would cause other concerns but uh I feel that the the benefit of having funds from this activity flowing with the community outstrips our need to try to hold students accountable for their actions so I'm I would argue that these are almost daily occurrences I understand and perhaps we staff to have our County Sheriff increase enforcement and be very diligent and have a conversation with the sheriff that warnings are simply intolerable we looked at on the consent agenda we see that the sheriff's report writes a number of warnings we need to maybe ask for more uh actual infractions be prosecuted for the message that gets around if it's one it's nothing for a student to get uh read the riot act by one of the sheriff's deputies they'll go back and they'll tell their friends yeah he pulled me over I got a warning a big deal we start racking up $200 fines and parents start having to chill out that they might have a little bit different activity on it that is where I think we need to be insistent and have a clear communication with the Holy family's team that we're serious about this and this is not a new problem we've had speeding on coia from the time I've lived here 23 years ago and I used to live at the house on that very corner I understand that this is an issue and we should be spending our time having open dialogue I I don't feel that this being held captive to is the appropriate Avenue for resolving I but I am 100% aligned with you on your concern that that that intersection is to me a very high-risk intersection because of the Confluence of the streets that are there the traffic that's coming through there the change in traffic pattern and and frankly more people are walking through there so maybe we need some other things there to have signs that say stop for people on the crosswalk um to draw just keep drawing attention to it um but we should pursue those Avenues and be diligent about it this particular approach to try to enforce accountability through this I I think we have some unintended consequences that I I'm just at this point not willing to have people suffer those consequences acting mayor yes yeah if I may uh so council member I appreciate you mentioned this to me as we walked in tonight together so I appreciate the heads up um as I said to you on the way in I think sort of raising this concern this is obviously a home holy family related action item and so raising a concern about traffic patterns around the school is fine for you to have done uh as I said to you before the meeting I guess I share a council member evans's concern that literally tying the permit to traffic enforcement or traffic behaviors and I'm not sure what metric would be used right I mean how many how many kids running a stop sign triggers a re revocation of the permit that that concerns me and it also concerns me that I think this intersection is not close to the particular uh establishment that we're talking about that the permit would apply to um I'm not sure that they're literally uh contiguous and you can correct me if I'm wrong because you know your community better than I do but so I I have those concerns I share those concerns with council member evansky I think be appropriate I I don't know who's going to make the motion if if anybody's going to make a motion on this item but uh you know tying them together to sort of Grant the permit but ask the sheriff's department to give you a report on enforcement activities around that intersection or something like that asking staff to check in with the county on enforce you know that that's all appropriate too that's all okay but I think I agree with council member evansky that trying to literally tie those together would be sort of hard for staff to enforce so my two cents on that thank you attorney Vos yeah and my comment here is I have trouble tying them together as well I hear your concerns but the tying them together but I think having staff um talk to the sheriff's department and really focus on that so I don't know Miss Hardy if you have any any comment on that um how we could approach that with the sheriff's department and have further focus on that certainly acting mayor members of the council this um this afternoon actually we had some conversation between um us uh City staff and the Sheriff's Office and um they did confirm that they will be increasing enforcement in that area particularly around the time that school begins and as school is getting out um and um also you coia is a the through coia is a relatively new um new like it's a new connection for us so with that um the the sheriff's office has been working on trying to um really Step Up enforcement in that in that area and we'll continue to do that so we've had some staffing issues with within the community and on different shifts um related to the deputy so we've had overall throughout the city we've just had a little bit of a decrease in enforcement overall um but I did also get information and confirmation from the sheriff's office this morning uh that will be um by the end of the month will be back at full strength with all of our shifts um and with that we expect more increased enforcement not only in this area but throughout the community um from appears as that there's Council consensus for the staff to connect and have have those conversations with holy family um and our Sheriff's Office so we are happy to have those conversations we've had those conversations in the past they are ongoing um there are some plans in place for doing a mock crash later in the school year um and just to really talk about the importance of good driving behavior um in in a way that be that feels very real with that if if you all are familiar with that and we can certainly have the Sheriff's Office come in later um in the year to talk to us about what that might look like um and and what the goals of that is um the other thing is we're we're happy to um ask for uh for more detailed reporting around this intersection or in this area or um as well um going forward we can either include that in your monthly updates or we can do a separate um um item and I can talk to you all in the one-on ones to see where consensus is on how that gets presented back to you excellent thank you any further comment on Council may have a motion I'll make a motion that we approve the charitable gambling permit for uh Holy Family in application operate activities at the Victoria can I get a second second I'll second it uh all in favor I I okay we are now going to move on to the regular agenda our first item this evening is item 6.1 downtown west Phase 1 development update kicking us off this evening is uh city manager Dana Hardy Miss Hardy thank you acting mayor members of the council um this evening we have um we have an update on our downtown west project and I'm just going to kind of set the stage and then I will pass the Baton over to uh Marco mlan um in in group so as you all know we have um downtown west is an extension of our downtown it's um a 13 1 12 acre parcel and we have been talking about that land for um over a decade that's been in our possession it is city-owned um and the vision we've done a lot of visioning around this um specifically in The Last 5 Years and with that um we've talked about really uh developing that site over three phases um in over a period of time and with that Vision um which was really conducted with extensive Community input that we envision a mixed use development with commercial office and residential Spa um space in there very active place that's connected and truly an extension of our downtown so um in September of 2022 uh we reached a purchase purchase and sale agreement with Marco mlan who will be giving an update here shortly in October of 22 uh the final plat approvals uh and development agreement and the Tiff agreement were also um were also approved and that would be for phase one so uh this evening we have we've Not Broken Ground yet or finalized um those agreements um in other words put those into action and this evening we're going to get a brief update on where we're at with that project so if there aren't any questions for me um perhaps um Tim and Mark May we want to come up to the podium any questions guys none for me great thank you can you introduce yourself and where you're from guys yes Tim Marco uh Marco mlan development uh my address is 17158 Stone Brier Circle in prer Lake uh my business partner Mark mlan here as well as our development Partners from Schaefer Richardson Katie Anthony and uh Brad Schaefer uh acting mayor members of the Council um we've been in front of each other uh numerous times over the last couple of years uh we're going to keep our portion of the update a little brief and then hand it over to our development Partners to to bring in some more detail uh we were here back in April um uh with an update and 2024 proved to continue to be a little challenging after uh our update we had to replace our debt partner and our Equity partner uh found a new debt partner found a new Equity partner partner and kind of go through that motion that unfortunately we're seeing in the development uh industry right now quite a bit uh but we're here and uh we'll certainly answer any questions that you all have after the update uh we think we've got some positive news and continue to put a lot of work into this project are absolutely committed to it and look forward to uh an eventual groundbreaking here so um without any more of my rambling I'd like to introduce Katie Anthony uh to provide more uh of a detailed update thank you good evening acting mayor and members of the council uh as Tim mentioned my name is Katie Anthony I'm vice president of development with Schaefer Richardson Brad Schaefer who's our CEO and founding principal uh is here as well uh we've been working with Marco mlan for o over a year on this project um brought us in to to partner particularly on the the capital piece of the project uh Schaefer Richardson is a 30-year-old company uh we've done a lot of work in throughout the Twin Cities including housing similar to what what's proposed out here in downtown west uh and we're really excited about working in the city uh we think the site is great um and we really appreciate the relationships that we've built with the city staff over the last uh year or so um as Mark mentioned uh the last update that they provided back in April I wasn't able to attend that meeting uh we talked about having a a a debt and Equity partner on board and moving towards closing unfortunately uh as has been the case for over uh over the past couple of years uh it's still a really volatile uh market and and the capital markets are are continue to be fairly tight uh for investment and for Lending uh you hear in the news about interest rates that's a portion of it uh but a big part of of what's happening in in those markets and we've seen it across the board on all of the project types that we uh that we uh that we develop um the good news is that despite uh despite those that partner uh not being able to perform uh on behalf of this particular project we've been able to to locate another partner with similar terms on the debt side and we've been moving forward to them they're very excited about this project very excited about the location uh and more recently we've been able to secure an equity partner as well uh and so we're we're remobilized with a with a project team uh and moving forward towards closing this fall uh with that being said we've been working with the the building department and the staff to make sure that we have all of our approvals lined up uh all of our permits uh ready to go uh and we're looking forward to getting this project kicked off later this year and with that I'll take any questions that you have just topical we've given a significant amount of extensions to this project how comfortable do you feel that you'll be able to you had a November 30th deadline to get closed by or are we going to make that uh it is our full intent to make that yes uh we as I mentioned we intended to close in the spring and start construction then uh we've been able to regroup and we are on a we are on a path right now we have a a critical path that's built out that uh foresees Us closing before that time just if you would take a few seconds to talk about your risks and opportunities that you have uh in front of you about those being able to perform Within that deadline yep uh there's a lot that goes into closing a lot of paperwork and documents uh we have a team that is uh that is understands that and understands the deadlines that we're working with uh and understands that we've had patient sellers uh you all as well as the Boyer family uh that have been along for the ride on this on this particular transaction and so uh if in terms of uh hurdles to closing or potential risks um they always exist um uh the the lender has underwritten this project they've been on board with us since about June late May June um the equity investor we've had quite a bit of back and forth with them so we you know they're they're committed to this project uh We've started spending uh resources on getting those documents in place uh that we need with them to close um we have all of the other players so title company uh design everybody contractor everybody is still on board uh with seeing this through so I think the risks are are fairly low not to say that there there's none I mean there's always risk with with real estate um opportunity wise I mean we are we are pushing and we have we do have a team of very experienced players and so I think in terms of of you know getting all the pieces in place and and getting it in the ground really before you know starting at least before the snow flies you can never predict uh the weather here um will be our opportunity and and you know from our perspective uh the project uh should deliver in uh the the first part of 2026 which is a great time to open a project and so that's that's an opportunity for us as well I will speak to the fact that um you know there has been a fair amount of Supply that's been delivered to the twin City's Marketplace uh over the last two years really and and will continue to be this year there are very little new starts happening in the Twin Cities and so in terms of of this project coming online at an ideal time uh the you don't hear of a lot of uh Market family uh market rate F multif family deals that are getting closed uh these days and so uh there really will be a dir and Supply coming on the market at this time which is an opportunity for Victoria as well as this project itself okay and then last uh I suspect you guys are aware of the highway five reconstruction 11 improvements we have to put roundabout in that how do those does that construction timeline you think affects your Construction timeline and being able to get materials in and out and completing your project in a time frame that you think that you've had planned for this yep uh council member uh we we are aware of the roundabout project uh of course we wanted this project to happen and kickoff earlier than that uh we'll continue to work and coordinate with uh our contractor will will coordinate with uh the city and the Count's contractor on uh on delivery schedules and and things like that but I think the the final construction and the delivery of the project should line up nicely with the the road work project okay great thank you uh construction costs I mean the longer you wait I can't imagine that they're they' stayed as low as they were and the project was approved are you concerned with the rising costs of materials and things like that and is that going to be an impediment that we get in 2025 that it's going to slow you down because you've got to wait for more funding or where are we at with sure good question uh council member Gunderson and and members of the council uh inflation is has been a a big top topic of conversation as of L late um really in the in the world that we work in uh it was particularly hard felt between kind of the start of covid and about a year and a half ago uh when interest rates started going up uh it made it harder for projects like ours to pencil uh and so actually from a supply and demand standpoint from construction Labor uh it's it's made uh it's kind of flatlined uh inflationary growth in the construction uh trades uh we have a really good relationship with the contractor we're working with and keep in regular touch with them on on you know potential cost increases and I think generally what we've seen over the last six to nine months is that while some items may have gone up others have come down uh and at this point we're we're looking at a flat uh a flat price um we will sign our contract when we start construction uh for a maximum price and they will work within that okay so interest rates are as they fall hopefully that evens out whatever labor and material costs you see you on a rise with longterm interest rates hopefully they're looking at being cut down and and nobody lets us make a bet on on what on positive news that might be happening in the future so what we have to underwrite is really uh a more conservative take so uh on a pricing from a pricing standpoint we'll lock in our price with our contractor uh at closing uh we we make sure that we have contingency on hand for any unforeseen uh items that might come up uh and then we we typically underwrite um a fair cushion on something like interest rates so hopefully hopefully we'll see some benefit from that but we don't generally count on that and and lenders and investors won't let us count on that either I guess overall uh I'm hearing some excitement and some positive momentum which is great um this uh we all want this project to to move in the right direction and move forward so um continue the open communication I I would highly recommend that and any other comments from my colleagues here none for me okay and this item was discussion only and so we will take no formal action at this point so uh I'll open the floor for any further discussion though at this point from staff or at this point team mayor members of the council just real quick I want to say it's been a long road but we really appreciate the partnership and the relationship that we've developed with the team that's sitting here um there's been a lot of collaboration and really working um working together to to get the vision of the council and the community built through this project so um thank you for for your patience as we work through this and uh we're very excited for this update and looking forward to um to our groundbreaking you will all be invited thank you thank you all all right thank you very much next item is item number 62 which is a public hearing to consider a temporary noise permit for 1150 Lilac Circle associate planner Mr Bry uh will present this item Mr R the floor is yours good even mayor and council members uh tonight is a public hearing for temporary noris for 11:50 Lilac Circle uh the request is for this Saturday September 14th and the reason for the request is for an outdoor wedding and wedding reception that'll have a DJ Play Music as well as announcements outside of the home the request is from 400 p.m. in the afternoon till 11 p.m. at night um in addition the neighbors have been informed not only by the applicant talking to neighbors but Al we sent out a public hearing notice the comments that we have received as staff have been positive and have been supportive of the permit uh normal quiet hours would begin at 10 p.m. so this would only be an extension of an hour past normally when you have you have to quiet down outside events and and then we would need to open the public hearing and I stand for any questions um this is is a public hearing and I'll now open the public hearing is there anyone who wishes to speak to this item is there I'll open it again is there anyone who wishes to speak to this item item 62 one more time is there anyone in the audience or who wishes to speak to this item seeing no one I will close the public hearing and I will open the floor for Council discussion uh I I don't have any discussion on this item acting mayor congratulations seeing no more discussion I will ask for a motion motion uh motion to approve the insurance issuance of a temporary noise permit for 11:50 Lilac Circle between the hours of 400 p.m. and 11:00 p.m. on Saturday September 14th uh 2024 can I get a second I'll second all in favor I I next is item uh 6.3 is a public hearing to consider amendments to our ordin ordinances related to the animals to animals and storm water management ordinances presenting this item is our city engineer Cara Garen the floor is yours I don't know why I was looking around for somebody else to to present it I was thinking there was another item in front of me sorry about that all right uh acting mayor members of the city council um I am appreciative to the planning staff for assisting with this item because you don't normally see me in front of you relating to amendments to ordinances but um so as the council's aware the city has an ms4 permit that um we are obligated to comply with that's issued by the state of Minnesota in association with um the Clean Water Act technically so um through our last round of permit update um there was a number of revisions to our program that were identified that needed to be made and an area of revisions related to ordinances um so what this specific item tonight before you is some ordinance revisions to really kind of clean up some old language that um has been in existence for quite some time but then also to comply with the revised permit so um related to animals the only uh real modification there is clarification of Maintenance responsibilities for pet waste on property both public and private um so we are required to have an ordinance that says people need to clean up their pet waste um and then more specifically um a lot of the revisions relate to storm water management so one of the things that we wanted to do so the city has a engineering design and construction manual that is also approved by ordinance and our goal is to make sure that all of the technical um requirements are really housed in that document instead of in the ordinance because as new requirements um are revised in the industry and by the mpca it's much easier for us to update that document than make um wholesale ordinance revisions so we wanted to clean up the section so it doesn't have all of that information contained in the code um we also are required to adopt the mpca um construction permit requirements so we specifically are noting that applicants to the city need to comply with their requirements as well as Watershed District approvals so if you're doing a project in the city of Victoria regardless of what's in our code you already have to get approval um from either the Watershed District or Carver County W mall but the PCA wants to see that written into the ordinance so it's clearly a requirement um so that's more formalized um another element that we had to incorporate into the ordinance was just um standards for bulk storage of decine materials so salt uh we don't have a lot of this within our community but as the community grows and expands if you had as an example um an industry in the South growth area that had a large parking lot and was storing DIC materials on their property this ordinance would require that that um DIC material be stored properly and then lastly um we did add some enforcement and reimbursement procedures and I'm actually going to um pull up the agenda item so I can um take a look at that language so um specifically there are four Provisions within the enforcement requirements and really having this having this language in here is important um as the city deals with violations of our storm water permits a particular example that's pretty common that we're wrestling with is erosion control issue so if you drive into a new development area and there's sediment all over the place um that isn't getting cleaned up or swept frequently that's an area that our Public Works team spends a lot of time um issuing notices and working with contractors to get cleaned up um this language spefic specifically would allow us to issue a stop work order if they're not complying with our requirements so um both the first two items really are what we would more commonly see um items three and four listed here are from actually all four of these are from the mpca model ordinance that they recommend that cities adopt and I will just note and and would ask um the City attorney to comment on any concerns he might have with the city's ability to actually Implement items three or four as recommended in the um mpca model ordinance so any any I'll send it your way City attorney yeah acting mayor thank you car yeah just as to three and four three of course says if you find there's a public health safety risk out on a property related to storm water management practices you'd go out and do something about it I I will advise you if that happens we should get a warrant to do that we shouldn't just go onto somebody's property even though they've p the permit um and so that goes to number three and then as to number four to the extent we would go that far we would find a public health safety problem and actually go out and make improvements on somebody's private property we would want to collect that money obviously uh number four speaks to that I would advise that we give notice to that landowner and uh give them a right to a hearing on that issue despite the language number four I'm fine with three and four it comes out of the npca as recommended ordinance language I'm just going to advise you if we ever get that far and as Cara said we're probably not going to ever get that far but if we ever did we're going to want to protect property owner rights because I don't I don't think you want to I don't think you want to press your um your language here that far so that was the caveat I wanted to make I think the language is good obviously having stronger language is is fine I'm just going to advise the protect landowner rights thank you attorney voice um and I think got to get back over to the right place I don't think I have any other comments on this does require holding a public hearing and this yeah planning department has noticed the public hearing yeah this is a public hearing and I will now open the public hearing is there anyone who wishes to speak to this item again anyone who wishes to speak on this it item one more time anybody who wishes to speak on this item item 6.3 seeing no one I will now close the public hearing and I'll open the floor for Council discussion AC on the amendment for that's the section is dog waste disposal these are probably like nitpicky but rules of construction our section is titled dog waste disposal but our language in the ordinance references any domestic animal so perhaps it would be advisable to strike the dog waste disposal and have it be domestic animal waste disposal as the the section name um and then I just would like to take your council members temperature on the proposed osed language speaks of um periodic removal within a property owner in terms of their animal waste so would we like to perhaps clarify our ordinance and per and Define more clearly what periodic might mean periodic to um having when I was a 10-year-old meant maybe monthly but periodic to my father meant every week so uh that said would we want to consider you know putting a more narrow definition of periodic to perhaps be at least monthly by weekly we certainly don't want to create um the animal waste Patrol but certainly uh I think what we're trying to do is not create a nuisance and at what point does periodic delve into nuisance but so I'd like to maybe give consideration to that maybe asking staff to make this modification and if we make a motion we would if we choose to further Define what periodic means is I would assume this is proactive and not reactive is this is I mean are we doing this because we have a problem with people not cleaning up after their animals or is this proactive meaning that we're get putting oursel in line to be able to tell someone if they're not doing it that we can tell them to pick up after their animals so I mayor members of the council we're doing this because the mpa mpca says we have to okay so that that's why I'm here with the issue I'm not aware and I'm looking around the table of us having known issues with pet waste other than some challenges within downtown that staff has worked with the folks who would be involved in that directly um but I'm not aware of it being a historic problem that's come before the city on private property because it's the the change is adding this private property language in right so I mean I'm not going to prescribe to something somebody how often they got to pick up after the dog I mean they want to leave it on their private property until it becomes a problem to their neighbors or smells bad you know we can say we have an ordinance that says you need to pick up periodically and if we're at the point where we're telling them they need to pick up then that would define periodically that it needs to be taken care of um I I mean we some areas we like to micromanage in other areas we don't I would we either micromanage or we don't micromanage and so I would just say periodically if it becomes a problem if Hobs my 130 lb NY creates more waste than somebody's three pound Chihuahua it's probably going to happen now what's per what's more weight what's creating more waste am I going to pick up after Hobs yep but is it becoming a problem for my neighbors no and so let's not micromanage this we put periodically in there if it becomes a problem we say we're issuing a warning to pick up after animals in your yard this is your periodic notice I think that's kind of where it is I it's and we're being told to do this not really having to do it so if we're being told until something becomes a problem then we can address it I guess I mean fair I I I'm just trying to you know we have had some experiences lately with staff having to be pressed by residents about a lack of specificity and saying it's not specific I don't have to do that or and you know clearly there becomes a question of intention that's sort of the direction I want to take the I think you you bring up a good point that if it is a problem then we've probably tricked the periodic trigger and then as such we should have staff note that when these kind of issues come up it has been addressed by Council it has Council has given their View on what this means and we they can refer to the minutes and they can refer to uh the our recording of this to clearly Define what the council's intention is around this I'm I'm fine with that and they can say that periodic means by the time we get to a problem you've already your Curiosity has been more reached has has been made okay thanks so so just again clean up the housekeeping of the name of the section yes I was going to say domestic animal yeah so is that something that's acting mayor members of the council yes I think as long as our City attorney gives the thumbs up um that's a pretty easy change that we can just do um if you are willing to authorize us to do that yeah acting mayor I I I agree with everything everybody said here so far um I think the clean up of the dog waste title is totally sensible and I appreciate that clarification and then as to the other issue I I understand the language to say you've got to clean up your dog poo poo um as often as is necessary to avoid creating a nuisance so if you've got a big dog it's going to be more often than a little dog so I I think that's that's right great okay seeing any more discussion seeing no more discussion I will now ask for a motion I I'll make make a motion to adopt these ordinances subject to uh section changing the section title to refer to animal waste disposal as we've agreed this evening is there a second second all in favor I I our next our next item number 6.4 is also public hearing this public hearing is to consider a shooting bow and arrow application for six 6920 Rolling Acres row presenting this evening is assistant city manager Alyssa Nelson Miss Nelson hello there acting mayor council members give me one second to pull out the presentation all right um here before you we have a uh special permit application to discharge a bow and arrow that was submitted to staff um for the property of 6920 Rolling Acres Road uh the purp purpose of the special is to provide residents the opportunity to discharge firearm or bow and arrow um within the corporate limits of the city of Victoria in residential commercial industrial areas um with the authorization from city council first hence the reason we're bringing this for you before you this evening like I said the application is 6920 Rolling Acres Road which is a residential zoned property it is for bow and arrow use only for recreational hunting just to give you an understanding of where that property is located uh we do have a map of it up on the screen um as you see we have uh several neighbors um surrounding the property um and as also part of this special permit application we are required to hold a public hearing neighbors within 350 ft of the property uh were notified of tonight's public hearing um another piece to that is written comment was provided to City staff prior to the agenda packet publication and we have included that as part of the agenda packet for you tonight so with that I will pause here for any questions um as well as allowing you to hold the public hearing let's start with the public hearing this is now a public hearing and I'll open the public hearing is there anyone who wishes to speak on item 6.4 hi hi thank you can you state your name and location for us Jane wisman 694 Rolling Acres Road right next door to Bill ask I'm adamantly opposed to this permit um I hope the council has read my letter um it contained all the facts and concerns I just wanted to add one more thing that was another thought that came to me um if I was interested to sell my home in the near future um and this permit was granted I would have to disclose to potential buyers that there is a hunter next door to you here and I would imagine that would eliminate most if not all buyers because I don't want to live next to hunting uh I wouldn't buy the place so uh that was the comment I wanted to add and then I want to hear what the council members have to say about this I I I can't believe this is even being considered so that's what I had to say thank you Miss thank you is there anybody else who would like to speak on this item 6.4 one more time anybody else who'd like to speak on item 6.4 then I will close the close the uh public hearing and open the floor for Council discussion May acting mayor if I wait if I may just uh so I I don't I don't know anything more about this frankly um than what's in your packet except one thing maybe more than than is in your packet as to to discharge of firearms so this is an an application as I understand it that would apply to both bow hunting and or bow shooting and Firearms as to Firearms within an incorporated city it's not legal and there isn't a mechanism for a city to make it legal to discharge a firearm within 500 ft of a house for hunting purposes so there is not an Avenue for that to be legal candidly I have not I not found or I haven't looked in your code for the land language of this special permit that's before you so I I can do that right now but I um as to discharging a firearm a gun in a city that's not something you're going to be able to allow um as to a a bow I guess that's a separate discussion but I'm not sure that's really what the application is after it sounds to me like it's an application to allow either or both of those and and there's not an Avenue to allowing that okay should it be clear attorney BOS there is not an Avenue to allow the discharge of a firearm for hunting purposes within 500 feet of a structure that's correct so with respect to that standing sounds like it's a statutory defined requirement certainly people who are find themselves into the self-defense purpose position this doesn't apply to that this is for hunting Within 500 ft of a structure yep so on the on the prospect of having somebody ask us to discharge a firearm for the purpose of hunting uh any lot that is probably smaller than 500 feet in depth would not be something that could even be considered correct so yeah acting mayor and Council that's what I'm saying I mean again I I uh I'm I looked at the packet today and was going through this so I'm I'm U I'm confessing to you what I know and don't know but yes that's my understanding is exactly what you just said okay thank you y someone who hunts and my I guess my my brain when I read through this didn't even go to firearms because you one you can't I just know you can't discharge within a city uh and two typical hunting practices aren't if if there's a structure even in an open field or on hunting land that you're hunting in firing at a building Within 500t feet is heavily frowned upon and in most cases illegal um so I my brain didn't go right to to to an actual firearm it did go to Bow Hunting and I would assume it might be turkey bow hunting um in that back area just based on the population of turkeys um that that are in that area and that I that I've observed uh even being at mon alvit that they walk the they walk the the lake back there um me you can see gaggles coming right through um so it Firearms is Absolut is no uh bow hunting still gives me heartburn over um where where you're going to um you know you get a little anxious on a big one and the next thing you know you shot your neighbors in the house up with you got a bow sticking out of their Garage on either side um or in their yard or God forbid and it's a car that's going by um whether it's in the front or the backyard we're not defining that either um and so I guess the question I would have for Bob is if we if we allowed is it is there trapping if if they is trapping something we would allow on a property if they wanted to trap uh hunt trap for the purposes of hunting and for food I'm assuming that's what this would be and I'm making the assumption that it's a would be a turkey style permit that's going through the yard um to do yeah acting mayor counsel um the honest answer to the specific question is I don't know but I think I would uh get around not knowing that by saying as I understand the request here it's not for that so I don't think it's a request related to to a trapping you might be right for the purpose uh you know it may be for U you know collecting uh food uh animals for food but um uh I don't think that's a request before you so that's my punt answer on that one Miss Hardy thank you acting mayor members of the council just for some additional background information and context um this ordinance that we're referring to has not been updated since 1999 so if you can imagine how much Victoria has changed since then um this is one of the the ordinances um that staff have flaged to to be reviewed um and we've started to do some preliminary research um on what other communities and how they are um handling these types of permits or whether they are handling these types of permits um so we've not done a lot of um deep Dives on this but um what I will share with you is what we've um initially discovered is that there are a number of cities um that do not allow um any um hunting in a residential area which this would be considered residential um and however they do there are a handful of cities that still allow for that to occur in an agricultural area so that is something that we um will be at coming back to you later to see if there's consensus for us to do some housekeeping changes on that ordinance that's not what our ordinance is right now um the process that you're going through right now is reflective of of what that ordinance um spells out for when there is an application but I just wanted to to make a note that um uh what we're seeing in other areas in the last time that this ordinance was updated thank you sorry any further comment I I think that we were asked a question by Miss Weissman why would you even consider this and I think we have to give her an answer and the answer is that somebody's come to us and we're we're required to consider the item and I I think also in in that consideration we also bring the benefit of these discussions to give us some formulation on what we need to do for the all of our residents in Victoria and how we're going to lead and guide for the future so um that by no means PL is reflective of my opinion to approve or deny this I'm just simply stating for Miss Weissman why we we we're bring we have to bring this before the uh the public for for discussion I would just offer if if it's not if the hunting isn't for the purpose of food and there's nuisance animals there are services that can be utilized to help mitigate nuisance animals live trapping removal live removal uh things like that so I would you know if if there's bring that to us so that we can talk about that as well if there's a nuisance animal creating a problem in the back um that you know or in the Pro on the property then that's something that I that we need to address but I yes if it passes or veils just the due consideration is what we're here for for just about every request well I I think to that point council member G said uh it's it's lacking in our summary materials the the applicant had a had had every um availability just like Miss White's been to before us and address before console as to what are the underlying purposes behind that yeah uh we don't have that information at our disposal what we do have is for consideration is the next door neighbor has um put together a very detailed memo and um I can you know I I I I believe that you know going through that effort it would not be something that is lacking a fact what you know appears to be seems to be a information that we can rely on to make a decision so um with that I I think we unless there's some further comments maybe back to there we consider a motion yeah seeing no more discussion I will ask for a motion I'll make a motion to deny the shooting application for William ass it's 6920 ring erses row second all in favor all okay our next item is item uh 6.5 a final plat and final P PUD for Victoria South residential development presenting this evening is our city planner Brian mccan Mr mccan the floor is yours thank you acting mayor and council members tonight we have an application from Golden Valley landco for a final plat and final plan unit development resoning or PUD for their first phase uh as you may recall this project was reviewed during the sketch plat phase in January of this year and their preliminary plat was reviewed and approved this past May and they have come forward with the final plat request which was reviewed by our Planning Commission at their regular meeting last week excuse me as you're also aware uh review of the final plat involves details for the development including finalization of the development agreement and approving construction plans and and things like that so looking at the location and existing conditions it's located just south of the marsh Hollow development and the railroad through the south portion of town uh the site conditions it is a vacant Farm stead with Fields there are some Wetlands on the west side of the site uh as well as some trees to the North Central and South of the site also West chasa Creek runs through the Northeast and previously there were some uh Farm structures here they have since been demolished and removed looking at the final plat for this first phase it's currently zoned agricultural after annexation they are proposing the final PUD as I mentioned with an underlying R4 high density residential they're proposing 70 units with this uh first phase as well as a clubhouse and out lots for wetlands and future phases now the site is just over 24 acres in size but for this phase they're only disturbing about 7.4 net Acres so they're looking at a density of about 92 units per acre as you're aware this land is got Ed for 12 to 36 units per acre uh but their preliminary plat approval did meet this guidance so we ran this past the Metropolitan Council and they did not have any concerns with a lower density for this first phase as you're also aware the planned unit development process is to allow Innovative creative and flexible development the the initial input is provided at sketch plat then the details approved during preliminary plat and then the final fin ordinance which has been brought forward to this evening as part of the final plat approvals so outlined in that ordinance are our deviations from our city code these were included with a packet with you this evening and they are in the ordinance presented uh as you know a typical Corridor width for a public street is 120 ft the lowest point that the applicant is proposing with this development is 65 ft the apartment parking also requires two spaces per unit with one of them being enclosed they're proposing a few reduction in the number of enclosed stalls bringing them down to 1.89 spaces per unit they're also asking to reduce the front setbacks for town homes and for the clubhouse parcel uh from 25 ft and 45 ft respectively down to 20 ft for both they're also looking at patio side and rear setback reductions to zero for both of those they're also proposing to increase the town home impervious from 75% to 95% the maximum number of apartment units in our R4 high density is 100 they have proposed 144 at preliminary plat for this project and then the landscape berms typically have a 3:1 slope but they have 2 to1 slopes on maintained proposed moving on to the architecture lighting and signage they did provide renderings at preliminary plat that show the town homes I've included them again here on the screen on the right uh based on our requirements for Town Home parkings and exterior materials they do seem to meet the requirements we'll have to evaluate the apartment building uh when they apply for a site plan and building materials application in the future and then we will also evaluate the lighting specs at that time and then they did not provide signed renderings for review but we will require them when they move forward with a building permit for those moving on to the Landscaping they are meeting most of their requirements so they have a minimum 25% required open space they have about 52% they're also required to have one tree and one shrub for every th000 ft of that required open space they are meeting that requirement as well they need Boulevard trees every 35 to 45 ft um that standard only applies to city streets so they are meeting the requirements since the internal streets will be private roads and then they need a 40ft buffer adjacent to County Road 11 as you can see they've provide the buffers on the plan with that 2:1 unmaintained slope that I mentioned earlier and then Foundation plantings are required around the town homes and apartment buildings they have noted on the plans that they will provide those at a later date but we have not seen renderings for those yet moving on to tree preservation they're proposing 29% removal throughout the entire site which requires 47 mitigated trees to replace that they're placed to fill on the North border adjacent to the rail road to act as additional buffer space they are not proposing a burm with that tree preservation area for the parking and pedestrian connections as I mentioned they're meaning the town home requirements of two spaces with two enclosed for half the units with an additional one enclosed for the other half so it comes out to about one and a half enclosed spaces per town home unit they're meeting that based on the renderings provided and then the deviation proposed as I mentioned earlier for the apartment building they are also showing Trail connections along the collector road that comes through the site and moves down to the Future commercial and flex employment areas and then additionally along County Road 11 with future improvements for that road for Park dedication at 70 town homes for two residency unit per our code they're required 1.86 acres of land dedication or $196,000 for this phase or some blend of Landing cash uh there is not a park proposed for this development so we are expecting a cash fee uh with reductions for the trail areas that I mentioned in the last slide with that I will pass it over to Cara thanks Brian all right so um specifically speaking about access and streets um this this is the same information that was shown on the preliminary plat so I'm not going to spend a significant amount of time um discussing the private streets that the city council approved with approval of the preliminary plat um but just to remind folks um the main roadway through here will be a collector Road meeting collector standards um public Street and then the other streets will be private um so specifically though related to Cony Road 11 so um with the proposal here tonight with the final plat approval and the potential preliminary plat application coming forward for the quick trick property that you all um had a presentation on at last council meeting um the developer of this property the developer for that property myself and Carver County are working together to figure out how we can facilitate the improvements that are needed to County Road 11 um to accommodate these two projects um right now the slide here shows that the County Road 11 improvements aren't anticipated till 2027 that's now been updated to 2028 uh the reason behind that is the County's project includes intersection improvements at 10 and 11 and we don't want to have Highway 10 any part of Highway 10 between wakon and 212 under construction while Highway 5 is closed in 2027 so um we're continuing to work collectively among the parties to figure out what the um right timing and approach to the improvements are um for County Road 11 so we're going to continue those conversations as the um project moves forward but specifically when a um development agreement I don't know why my brain couldn't produce the word development agreement um comes forward with for this project we would anticipate um it including some requirements for improvements on 11 site utilities so um proposed utilities are coming from Marsh Hollow development to the north um the engineer for this property as well as the engineer for the property to the South have been working in collaboration with the city's consultant to find the ideal Optical route for extending the trunk sanitary sewer through these Parcels that will serve the area to the South um but the other area of concern that's been flagged for the city for quite some time um relates to well number six so well number six is under construction in the marsh Hollow um site uh the latest update for the timing for that weld to be operational is now uh beginning of October we are waiting four parts that we need in order to complete the startup of the well um the other element that we've been working through is that while we will have the well completed and operational we do need to amend our permit with the DNR to be able to regularly use that well so that work is ongoing um but since the preliminary plat review for this development we've been working with our consultant who has the city's um Water System model and we have updated the Water System model to reflect some operational changes that the public works department completed to the booster station and then we've added the proposed units to this area for this particular plat and at this point staff is comfortable with moving forward with the final plat approval um allowing construction to begin in this area um based on our modeling work um the only condition that you'll see in a subsequent um slide is that in the um development agreement I don't know why I keep wanting to say preliminary something or other but within the development agreement will be including a requirement that they can't put sod down for all of these new homes um essent eventually in July next summer when we might have uh you know drier conditions unless the DNR permit approval has been granted storm water management um this one is subject to Carver County wmo rules um and they this development team is very familiar with those rules and I think you already have your permit from them um based on the plans that are in before the city so looking at the preliminary plat requirements that were approved back in May by the city council they are meeting uh most of the requirements they do have a few items left still including a traffic impact analysis per uh staff's review comments back in April they have submitted it as of last Friday so I wasn't able to update the case in time uh staff has not been able to review that thoroughly yet but we do have one in hand also the signage specifications I mentioned earlier um as well as additional documentation to our City attorney for review such as title work and maintenance agreements and then the well which uh Cara just gave an update on so looking at our preliminary plat conditions typically we see those conditions met prior to a final plat approval so we will need a determination from the city council this evening if approving a final plat is appropriate given the items mentioned in the last slide and that I touched on briefly here as well so a public hearing was held by the Planning Commission at their regular meeting last week they did not have any public comments submitted they discussed the water capacity issue that we discussed with well number six as well as the need for a trafficed impact analysis uh which also looked at a quiet Crossing for County Road 11 the planing commission did end up recommending approval with a - vote and then here are the staff proposed conditions for approval if the city council decides a final PL approval is um good for this evening and I will just note a change to number two as Cara mentioned uh not for the construction of subdivision improvements but that well must be completed and permitted prior to installation of s for the development and with that I have four motions for you this evening and some sample motions for you on the screen I will just note that number three uh absolutely should be to table the summary publication if the city council approves the ordinance because we need a four fist vote for that and we do not have four council members this evening so for that staff can stand for any questions and the applicant is in the audience this evening thank you Council I'd like to open the floor for discussion yeah I just had some questions so I'm seeing that in the deviations on for this plan unit development there's a slope reduction in the birming uh yes there is a reduction proposed and I don't know if the applicant would like to speak on that a little bit more I will just note that it's fairly similar to what you will see along County Road 11 existing today uh with those unmaintained slopes uh correct council member my name is Matt pavic um I'm one of the developers on the site uh the reason we did a two to1 slope we wanted to be unmaintained and we wanted to achieve the highest height we could get so but doing a two to one allowed us to get the highest uh tallest bur and I think that that was the direction is is by reducing the slope we essentially are pushing a higher burm correct okay thank you thanks for clarifying that um and then you maybe you want to take because I I think that we had some thoughts at preliminary plat about the the nature of this unique development it does serve a need I think we've we've addressed that uh but we there were several concerns about the nature of shrinking the road size down and then and as a result it doesn't conform with our city standards so that there would be the the private road agreement aspect of this uh I I believe that one of the things that we talked about was um the need to get into the development agreement a main you know like almost a sinking fund to address the future reconstruction of those roads that be that that have you know an analytical rigor to it and then have an appropriate amount set aside and I think we wanted that develop agreement to be locking in so to speak that should the a future owner of this want to seek to have the city take those roads over that there would be an adequacy determination by City staff and then an expectation of forfeiture of that um sinking fund so to speak so that the city is not in a position of owning roads that residents request that now have to uh reach into either residents through a special assessment or have the city share on those costs so I I don't know where we've gotten with that but I think that that's still something that's important for us to ensure especially given the number of units in here and just the overall size of this road in terms of length and square footage uh council member yes um we just an important detail on that topic is that these all of these units will be owned by a single entity so it's it's a rental project um that'll be owned and controlled and financed and maintained by a single operator and Ian Peterson is here with uh with with that group that could discuss those funding mechanisms for how they budget uh for maintenance of the roadways and the yards and the driveways and everything on the project um so you could give you those details it's different than I think maybe when we were having those conversations we were thinking more of an HOA type of a situation where you would want to have some kind of a back stop uh so individual residences weren't having issues um so here I think it's a different uh philosophy behind that but we're certainly agreeable to that concept to make sure that that uh isn't an issue in the future so okay great we're happy to work with staff on on that but I can let Ian talk a bit about the great thank you yes good evening Ian Peterson with integr properties um I believe when we were here for plary plat I shared with you that we have numerous communities just like this where there are private roads private drives actually just going through the buyout right now for snow removal for this upcoming year as it relates to that as it relates to uh the maintenance of the private streets when typically when we do this and these concerns come up within the development agreement itself there's a portion in there that um we do a five-year uh maintenance plan and submit that to the city as it relates to the streets the conditions chip sealing crack sealing whatever we're going to call it that we need to do and then that needs to be done within the next construction season but typically that's on a fiveyear fiveyear plan so we get done with the project five years later we submit that to the city and then address any concerns it may may need to have done at that time and in terms of reserves we reserve for pretty much everything for roofs for siding long-term window replacement front doors patios concrete and on this one we roll in the the private streets concrete curbing gutter repair um x% you know over seven years 10 years so that all gets rolled into the average rents at per se okay thank you for clarifying that yeah no absolutely C Merson um couple of things I'm not super enthused about 95% impervious is there any way that number can change um in my and I'll give you my my thinking in this particular setting is that 95% means more bituminous more cement more asphalt whatever it is which with no tree canopy is going to create a very hot environment in the summer which means heating costs are going through the roof energy energy usage is through the roof things like that um so if there's any way you guys can get it down under 90 that would be really beneficial I think not only to the people that are going to live there but also to the community as a whole um and then my second comment is how Future Ready are some of the are these units going to be meaning for alternate sources of energy solar uh charging stations for electric vehicles things that aren't the now but in five years six years are going to be more prevalent than they are now so not having them I think is going to put these residents maybe at a disadvantage not being able to have those types of things yes council member um I'll take the first question I'll have Ian to address address the second um the 95% number is kind of a a it's an indicator of just the platted town home lot itself which is a super compressed lot line and it's not reflective of the project as a whole so our overall impervious on the whole project I don't remember the number but it's close to I think 60% or something like that so it's a because of the nature of town home lots and the way that they're ploted that number is really high just because you pretty much plat the boundary of the house so that's the reasoning for that and we do have um we feel the importance to that open space and we do provide for that well beyond the required um minimum so do I mean in this in I understand the larger area of the project but in this area is it going to do do you see other developments like this are they warmer then without a tree canopy than maybe the a larger Pro area I Just Energy cons energy consumption in the summer very odd right correct and we do have a lot of trees proposed on the project um it takes a few years for them to grow up you know and provide that shade you're right um so uh this is part of the kind of the nature of the development but um generally speaking uh you know the design behind this development was to create as much open space as we could and hit those densities okay um so we think that uh we've done that as much as we can so um but I'll let y answer the question about that for Sight into the other technology thanks yeah great question council member uh wish I could see further into the future in terms of Technology needs that we that we that we need um I will share all the homes are pre pre-wired for electric car chargers um we don't put the charger in because if you're going to drive a Tesla and council member over here is going to drive a rivan and somebody else is going to drive you know cyber truck I guess that's Tesla but you you want your own charger yeah so that's uh we we pre-wire um there are Tech tubes that that during construction go up to the Attic So it's all ready for solar capability um every home is energy rated and energy tested uh blower door test as well as various insulation inspections and other things as it goes along the way roof placement is part of that equation uh in terms of so many square feet of roof in this territory facing south uh Southeast Southwest um and then yeah all of the homes are um smart rent homes and so you can control basically everything in your home off your phone so you can control your thermostat your lights uh there's leak sensors in there your front door ring doorbell your garage door um basically everything in your home you can control from your phone so if you have any other great ideas for further technology let me know and we'll try to incorporate them but that's a that's a huge benefit and something that we try to stay ahead of I'm heading to Park City in October to meet with some folks talk about the next stages of smart home technology and what that means good so thanks excellent thank you acting mayor y just a question I heard developer reps indicate that the in response to a question about the private drives uh that the intention to have the whole development commonly owned into the future goes to that issue addresses that issue to some extent I just wonder I don't know if it's for staff or for developer folks but um sort of how to the extent that would be an obligation are we intending that that would be a development agreement requirement or what how how would that be secured how would that obligation be reflected in something that's meaningful yeah I can share examples of what we've done in the past um typically it's addressed in the uh development agreement through exhibit H or something like that um the obligations as it relates to private Roads Maintenance report back to the city ongoing maintenance of all of those items um in the past we've also put in the development agreements because we don't create an HOA at this point um that if for some reason in the future these were going to be sold as for sale homes that we would need to come before the city council with those HOA documents clearly outlining show the financials and how you know the clubhouse is going to be supported and all those items so I can definitely share examples you may have some of your own but of ones that we've done in the past yeah acting mayor and Council I just would for the benefit of staff I mean staff in this city takes the first cut at development agreement so maybe we can have you s share some examples because I it sounds like that should be in the in the development agreement which is fine by me but it's I think it's got to be somewhere if that's part of addressing the potential for the roads to be something that the city's asked to take over at some prospective future date we we want to address that so very good right and and thank you attorney I think what we are driving at is not necessarily having the agreements you know to talk about the fiveyear plan and the monitoring and and uh you know ensuring that this de these things are cared for those are noble Pursuits and and they should be but I think the Crux of where I'm going is that we have seen where private roads have been asked for to be turned over to city property um at and residents have had to uh forgo their reserves held for those improvements as um a consideration for the city to take ownership of that Outlaw so I think our development agreements should be specific to a case like that occurring that the owners would in similar fashion be obligated to turn over those reserves for those items that is wished for the city to assume ownership and maintenance so and so and we'll talk about some of maybe some of the other things that we're concerned with when we start to consider the Motions but um that would be something that is didn't appear be on our list of um punch list items and I know that we did talk about that during preliminary plat any other comments for discussion um on that note there are four motions to consider um so for uh tonight and Mr mccan can you help us out with those yes absolutely um so I have the four motions on the screen for you uh each option has or each motion has the option to adopt table or deny uh as I mentioned at the end of my presentation number three though should be to table uh the approving summary publication because we do not have the four votes required are you ready to entertain motion yes coun Council can I get a motion sure on number one I'd like to motion to table the resolution approving the final plot for Victoria sou staff in their presentation seems to have provided a pretty fair number of uh items that remain to be resolved to um they don't appear that they've had enough time for consideration of certain items I think that tabling is an appropriate uh method to address this particular part of the what's before us tonight can I get a second just for clarification are we tabling everything and and having it come back or adopting the the summary resolution we would come back and vote on that and but we would approve everything else well for clarity council member Gunderson I I feel that with what staff has presented items one two and three I'd make a motion on each of those to table those certainly Table Three is clearly we need a four fifths um attendance by Council so we we statutorily can't do anything other than deny it or to table it so that's if we want to consider those three or we can consider all four I mean I I think that tabling Mo motion number one tbling motion number two before is tabling motion number three obviously for the reasons I just mentioned and then on motion number four I I think we can approve that so that they can start grading um while we're in in the midst of construction season okay I'm just consider I don't want to make I mean it seems up it's a final PL and most things seem to be ready to go if all we have to do is vote on the P summary public publication at the next meeting then that's then let's let's do that but I think everything else was sounded like it was going is handled or will be handled through development process M hard thank you AC members of the council I just want to note that if you choose to adopt um one thing that staff would do was we would not sign the da um and we would not file that preliminary PL sign the MERS or um record that final plat until all of the conditions have been met um so I just want to make sure that um you're aware that if you choose to do that there's still there are still some risk control measures in place um that that staff would be monitoring and making sure that there's follow through on that um I think from a staff perspective we don't have any heartburn on tbling that um we would suggest that if you table it you table it to a date certain we would recommend September 23rd for that um and as um council member evansky noted um the grading agreement in our ordinance we do give um some flexibility to um allow grading with a permit sometime between anytime between preliminary and final plat so um no heartburn on that um for from a staff perspective for approving that here this evening not sure if that helps but I just wanted to provide some additional information move to table Mo move to table items 1 through3 until 9:23 uh to just can we do that just move to table items 1 two three I think that you know I I'll I'll I'll amend my motion on number one to table date certain the resolution approving final plat for Victoria South September 23rd was it Madam city manager yes so if we want to consider all three motions then I'll yeah for just a minut we'll table them all just table then I'll make a motion to table to date certain September 23rd the ordinance approving resoning for agricultural to plan unit development for the Victoria South residential development and then U make a motion to table to date certain the resolution approving summary publication of the ordinance where we had the opportunity for Place majority to September 23rd can I get a second second all in favor I and then a motion to approve uh grading agreement for Victoria South second all in favor I okay uh next on the agenda is item 6.6 which is to consider an adoption of a resolution calling for a final assessment hearing for the steer Lake Lane phase one improvements presenting this evening is car Garen Miss Garen the floor is yours thank you acting mayor and members of the city council um so so you have two agenda items tonight um both related to the same action essentially but for two different projects so um essentially we've reached the point of construction um for these projects that we're ready to um call for the assessment hearing so the first item on your agenda for 6.6 would be to approve a resolution calling for the final assessment hearing for the stiger Lake Lane phase one improvements um as a reminder uh because uh this started quite a while ago the Stager Lake Lane phase one improvements include the Reconstruction of stiger Lake Lane from the bridge here on the West side of downtown out to Highway 5 um as the council's aware this this project has been a journey um it has taken significantly longer to get across the Finish Line with challenges we had with um private utilities located in the corridor a a big element of this project was bearing overhead um power lines for EXL energy and it it caused quite a few delays so um that's why it is finally in front of you tonight um the final assessment role here is shown on your screen um the proposed assessments remain unchanged from what the council reviewed and approved as part of the feasibility study completed quite some time ago um as a reminder at that time we had identified the potential to assess two Parcels that are owned by Three Rivers Park District and at the time we um the park district flagged um raised some concerns with our ability to actually um assess those properties so I'm noting with a strike through here that it is unlikely that we will proceed with actually assessing um those two properties but we would still give them notice of the final assessment hearing um so the action tonight is to adopt a resolution declaring the cost to be assessed and calling for a hearing on the proposed assessments so the council isn't taking any actual action on the assessments what you're doing tonight is calling for a public hearing that hearing would be held on October 14th mailed notice would be provided to the property owners and um published in the paper as required um one element for the council specifically to the stiger Lake Lane resolution is um one of the elements of the resolution is to um note what the interest rate will be on the proposed assessments on other projects and the way the city's assessment policy is written you set the interest rate at 2% over what the city issues debt for on the project for the stiger Lake Lane project you did not issue bonds for the street and storm SE improvements you paid cash um so I reviewed with the finance director today what she would recommend for an interest rate for um these assessments and her recommendation would be an interest rate of 5.7% that's the same interest rate that you're going to see in the next agenda item that we're discussing so the interest rate for the um 2023 Street Improvement project so that's 2% over what the city issued debt for in addition um she said that this interest rate is consistent with what the city is um making as interest on your money market accounts currently so um you know if if you had the cash that would be the type of interest rate you'd be seeing on it and so with that I would answer any questions otherwise would be looking for action on this resolution Council any discussion did we Bob did we ever get a legal opinion on being able to to charge essentially Three Rivers Park District or assess them for the land was there ever a I know I can't I remember the conversation and it was more of a grayish area are we still in that grayish like probably not going to be able to but yeah acting mayor counsel um and Cara will um remind me of what our exchange about the legal legalities of that were but uh yeah essentially that what you said is right I mean as a legal matter we could assess uh but um there's a question about whether there's benefit you you'll recall generally speaking that we can only assess up to the amount of property value increase that we provide to a property and there's a question about the extent to which that particular property and that particular use gains much benefit from the city's project so I think that's where we ended up focusing our attention and and I I think I agree with your city Engineers analysis that it's sort of um we're starting to balance Angels on the head of a pin when we start to figure out exactly what benefit um a publicly owned public property um gets from a new road adjoining it I the only thing I would add to that is the area of Park District property that's adjacent to this Improvement is is steep slope it's not usable accessible to the public park land like say if we were up by the Lowry Nature Center as an example so you know that this the type of land in this area is is not notably different than you know if you had usable Park land I'm just getting it that I I don't want there to be a negative impact to the to Residents that are paying that that their assessed amount and we if we didn't ask or didn't attempt to collect the assessment that we would be putting them at a disadvantage and other residents at a disadvantage over the cost of the project so I just want to make sure we're covering all our basis that we made an attempt to get all the information about collecting from Three Rivers to the benefit of the project and everyone else who has to pay for it so this assessment role that we're seeing in front of us that you've struck out this is substantially similar to what the assessment um in rough form was computed to be back when we had uh Council approve the project that is correct so we are not proposing to increase or decrease the proposed assessments um you know essentially the project costs did come in higher um than what was represented at the feasibility study but um staff isn't recommending that the council consider increases to those assessment amounts at this time council member gunderson's point that there's $442,000 that was in projected assessment role what we are not seeing is 21,000 of that being reallocated to the other residents impacted by it we are essentially in put terms other words the city of Victoria is absorbing the what would have been an assessment against the three revers Park District and and with the question that if we Prevail then the city of Victoria would be reimbursed solely and exclusively but aside from being able to Prevail we're in this we reach into the city's Pockets to solve the problem that is correct it just moves over to the city's bucket of funding responsibility we're and just making sure we're all comfortable with not continuing to go down the path of collecting that $42,000 and letting it being let it be absorbed into the but just cover us we've had the conversation we've done our due diligence right we're accepting a $42,000 absorption yeah I mean I think we have to sort of review the uh the concept of do we want to pay Kennedy and Graven $42,000 to get a legal opinion that we ultimately would not Prevail in any and maybe discretion is a better part of valor in this that we move forward close these projects and and go uh the only other comment I'd like to put before the council tonight and the public that um the because we paid for cash the 2% over the prevailing bond rate would be normally the calculation I'll I'll add that the United States government that the close of business today would borrow for 10 years with full faith and credit of the US government no spread on that at 371 so the rate that's being proposed is essenti giving our residents on this government funding for risks that are not government risks so being quite fair with where the city has decided to set that okay I one other number that I just want to note um for the record is that so um with this project the total cost of the improvements is 2.5 million so the you know the portion of the project that we're proposing in to collect an assessments from these Residential Properties is 60,000 so compared to the overall project cost it is a very small amount of the project um you know the city's assessment policy actually calls for up to 100% of the street and storm sewer cost to be assessed to the adjacent Property Owners at the time of the feasibility study the council concluded that you know we couldn't demonstrate that there was you know 2 million or $1 million in benefit to the adjacent Property Owners so the city council capped the assessments um the 12,000 per unit was based on what the city had assessed for the 78th and coia project um a number of years ago so the city directed us to the council you know concluded to cap it accordingly asking as is this cap are they getting the value at this cap do we is it a fair value that what they're getting with the assessment that is the council's decision again as uh Miss Garen noticed noted we are not holding the public hearing rather informing the public that we are calling for the final assessment hearing and declaring the final assessment cost so a motion to adopt a resolution declaring the C to be assessed and calling for a hearing on the proposed assessment for stiger Lake Lane West phase one improvements with an interest rate of 5.7% and the hearing to be held on October 14 2024 can I get a second second all in favor I I next on uh the list tonight is item 6.7 which is also to consider adoption of a resolution calling for the final assessment hearing for the 2023 Street and drainage Improvement presenting once again our city engineer car Garen great thank you acting mayor members of the city council I am sorry this graphic is so terrible I don't know how you're supposed to know what you're looking at there but um the streets included in the 2023 Street project were um 80th Street which is in front of Victor Victoria Auto Repair um and then uh Rose Street heading South to 81st Street sunflower heading south to 81st Street and then trillum Trail which is actually an alley that has homes um fronted on it were also included in the improvements so um that project is um approaching final completion we're just uh making sure the grass has grown and addressing some finer punch list items but um similar to the last item essentially um you were taking the same action um same situation as the last project we are not proposing any changes to what was um presented in the feasibility study I do want to note that um there is two different types of properties on this project so there are specifically commercial properties that about 80th Street um which is a wider Road has um slightly different conditions associated with it so the osed assessment for um the commercial properties along 80th Street are a little bit higher than the Residential Properties on the other street so um that's what you're why you're seeing the difference in numbers and then you also will see that there are two Parcels that are struck through on this um graphic and that is because they're properties who have driveways from 81st Street so under the city's policy um we assess and what our practice has been for a corner lot we assess them for the improvements on the street that their driveway is accessed from so that they aren't paying double what other residents are paying and with that the interest rate for this one isn't in question because the policy the city's adopted policy calls for it to be 2% over the bond rate um that's where the 5.7% came from on this one and so with that I would be happy to answer any questions thank you Miss Garen Council the two properties that got struck through they were they recently assessed on that on the on their street on the where they exit on to recently I just I I thought we talked about what they had been assessed for repairs and I don't remember they actually um haven't to my knowledge been recently assessed but their street was improved over 20 years ago so we did not try to go back into the records the county had actually done improvements to 81st Street as part of the County Road 11 project um but you know when that road comes back around we're doing a Mill and overlay for it now but at some point it will need to be rebuilt okay and so at that time likely they'd be assessed for whatever is under the current policy and then we would not assess these PR correct yeah any other discussion no none for me I I think the staff has clearly laid out what has happened with the street the drainage and Street improvements from that area thank you okay um again on this item Council we're not holding a public hearing this evening this the action is to consider this uh to inform the public about the final assessment hearing and declaring the costs to be assessed seeing no further discussion I'll look for a motion I'll make a motion to adopt the resolution declaring the cost to be assessed and calling for a hearing on the proposed assessments for 2023 Street and drainage improvements hearing to be held on October 14th 20124 can I get a second second all in favor I Council there are no more items on a regular agenda with that we will move on to reports and emerging issues attorney Vos any uh no uh acting mayor I don't have anything thanks okay thank you Miss Hardy any reports from staff none from staff acting mayor okay uh council member Gunderson Council membery uh none for me acting mayor okay if there are no more items to come before the body this this evening may I ask for a motion to adjourn motion second all in favor I I motion carries we'll say adjourned e