##VIDEO ID:y4VM3LgmN9o## e e e e e e e good evening it's now 6:38 and I call to order the regular meeting of the Victoria city council we begin with the Pledge of Allegiance so please join us I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all the first item on our agenda this evening is announcements uh we want to express our gratitude to everyone who took part in night to unite this year we had a record number of registered parties with 27 neighborhoods night toite provides a wonderful opportunity to connect with neighbors and friends both old and new and it was fantastic to see so many familiar and friendly faces that evening our Victoria fire station will host recruitment open house on September 11th at 6 p.m. if you're considering answering the call and would like to serve your community please attend the recruitment open house or reach out to our fire chief Dave shoger to learn more the League of Women Voters of Eastern Carver County will be sponsoring a candidate form for the Victoria's municipal offices at our city hall right here in the council chambers on Wednesday September 11th at 7 p.m. the city is also hosting a blood drive with the American Red Cross on Tuesday September 19th from noon until 6 at the Victoria Recreation Center in the gymnasium the next order of business is to adopt the final agenda Council can I get a motion motion to adopt the final agenda can I get we have a motion in a second all in favor signify by saying I I I any opposed motion carries we'll move on to our next item which is open Forum this is the opportunity for anyone to address the Council on an item that is not on the agenda and not in application form that will be coming to the council at a future date a little bit more about our open Forum before I invite those wishing to speak to the podium council members may ask clarifying questions but we don't engage in discussion during open forum and no action will be taken from the council this evening one individual has registered to speak this evening and that's Miss Sarah Clark Johnson Miss uh Clark Johnson please step to the podium and provide your name and address for the record oh perfect in very good good um you may step to the podium and say your name and address for the record please hello everyone uh neighbors thank you uh I'm Kyle AER uh Jackie Larson and I are homeowners at 800 Overlook Lane here in Victoria off of Rolling Acres um thank you for allowing us some moments to speak uh I'll be speaking on behalf of some of my neighbors and I'm sure others will have points they'd like to make uh I think we can all believe that the improvements on Rolling Acres Road are warranted needed and until spring of this year the residents and I speak only on behalf of the residents of Overlook at tamarak Lake uh neighborhood occupying both tamarak Lane and Overlook Lane have been in support of the project to resurface Rolling Acres add an underpass for the minaka Regional Trail and insert a roundabout at Mount Olivet Lutheran Church that's Swiss Mountain area all were considered considered needed early in the process uh to reduce traffic do traffic management for the church reduce noise all of those great things however in recent months the project has significantly been distorted in such a way that overall goal of the project has been lost these changes come at not just a great cost to the taxpayer but a significant cost to the affected homeowners in the communities on Rolling Acres Road we are one of them I'm sure you'll hear from others here tonight to research and hear out the project planners we've been engaged in the project for nearly three years uh there was a change to the project that was done last September to add a second roundabout move the roundabout and as such we have been engaged since we found out when we received letters asking for acquisition of pieces of our properties um since about May June time frame uh what we saw in the design in the updates is that the controlled access from the church via VIA interlock and roundabout was removed replaced with an uncontrolled entry south of the church um all the church traffic now departing to the South a new roundabout was added down at Overlook Lane and tamarak Lane where we live and have a community the residents of Overlook at tamarak Lake believe that because of the previous points the roundabout at tamarak and over Lane should be removed the roundabout at the church reconfigured and the width of the parkway reconsidered the current plan inconveniences creates inconveniences for residents in shz Lake St morit by back and forth turnabout to reach their properties now that we will only have right in and right out privileges it destroys property values for the Clark Johnson SOA hour and our Swiss Mountain neighbors by for forcibly acquiring land and placing Rolling Acres in their front yards our front yard and isolating us from the neighborhood that we purchased in 13 years ago it does not resolve uh solve the traffic problems for entering and exiting the church where the bulk of Rolling Acres entry traffic exists now and the northern roundabout has been shifted negatively impacting our neighbors at Swiss mountain in summary the new design for Rolling Acres appears to be over engineered unnecessarily wide caters to non- taxpaying neighbors and entities and is significantly wasting tax faer dollars the project started as a solution to what was a difficult problem and is morphed into a boondoggle of governmental overreach we ask your support in advocating for the affected residents your constituents returning to a common sense approach to dealing with this busy road which we can all agree there are some things that can be done to improve that overall and discouraging the bulldozing of the interests of the residents affected in such a Negative manner so thank you for your time thank you Mr AER is there anyone else who would like to address the council please step forward and introduce yourself and your address for this yes I'm Sarah from 820 Interlocken I actually thought I filled out the form last night online although I will blame my spotty internet last night rather than anything else because it was going in and out so I apologize for not having filled out the form ahead of time I would like to um say thank you to the mayor council members and the city staff for serving our community um it is appreciated by those of us who um you know put our trust in what you do but I'm here tonight to speak not only to the same um topic and have the exact same concerns but also to speak to the fact that I'm disappointed in the way that this has been communicated to us as the residents of Rolling Acres Road there was a small group of us that met with um City officials City staff back in 2018 specifically on this topic um and actually City and count and County staff um County members on this topic wanting our input we provided our input we had our opportunities for input in 2019 and 2020 that input has been recorded on County websit you know we want to reduce the noise reduce the speed um make sure the road does not um encroach upon our houses and all of that has been recorded on the County's website difficult as it is to find because the county has now split the program into two different websites there's the Arboretum area website which I have been Faithfully following and subscribed to about a year year and a half ago they changed it and made the highway 5 improvements project as a new website I didn't know that it changed names I've been following arborita Mary and not Highway 5 things have been happening on the highway 5 website that I didn't know about my neighbors didn't know about my friends on Minash did didn't know about because the name changed with the county so communication has been lacking for many of us and then we recently went to the open house this last week and as my predecessor said the plans have drastically changed the roundabout that used to be a four-way roundabout at interlockin and Rolling Acres or excuse me and mount oliv it Rolling Acres is now a three-way roundabout and the church is no longer entering and exiting Rolling Acres there and because they are not entering and exiting that roundabout has been pushed over onto interlocking and literally one of my neighbors is not going to have a functional driveway if they actually go through with this plan so again back to the theme of communication the communication on this project while it's out there in the public has been on the public website is poor if you pull up the public website the images and diagrams of Rolling Acres Road are still showing a single roundabout at interlockin with a four-way not the three-way and not the in the extra roundabout at Overlook so I'm looking to the city to help us as the residents of Victoria and residents of the county to work with us and make sure that our voices are heard not just the voices of the people driving through our neighborhood because it is our neighborhood even if it is a thway and we still we will still be living there in 40 or 50 years those other people who are driving through ODS are their jobs are changing and they're driving a different direction so please work with us the residents who are living here in our part of the city thank you thank you Miss  is there others who would like to address the council anyone else would like to step forward hi welcome hi thank you I am Nancy Nash I represent mon olivit church and I am so grateful um that tamy stabel gave me a call late last week and shared with me her concerns about the impact of the roundabouts um on Rolling Acres Road I have been in conversation like many of these folks with um Bolton M and the county to look at the best solution for all the reasons we've already acknowledged I was unaware A Ware of the impact of the change that moving the roundabout to the bigger roundabout where our access used to be would have an impact literally down the road it wasn't a demand or a request of the church it was the design of the engineers which we looked at and agreed it was a nice option so I am wanting everyone around here to understand that monolit thrive on the idea that we're good neighbors and we want to understand how we can best support one another and in what ways can we make this work not only for the church but the impacted neighbors around and um Tammy drove me around and we looked at the different spots and the different neighborhoods so that's all I wanted to say thank you thank you Miss Nash anyone else that would like to address the council please step forward last call all right very good thank you so much um next on our agenda this evening is our consent agenda items on the consent agenda are routine administrative and do not require deliberation or our housekeeping items that are required by law they're approved with one vote unless someone request an item to be considered separately Miss Hardy does staff wish to pull any consent agenda items for separate discussion and vote vote this evening none from staff Madame mayor is there anyone on the council that would like to pull an item for separate discussion and vote or anyone in the audience that would like to pull an item from the consent agenda seeing none may I have a motion for the consent agenda okay council member evansky makes a motion second by council member evening thank you second we have a motion and a second all in favor signify by saying I I I any opposed motion carries now moving on to our regular agenda this the first item on our agenda this evening is item 6.1 which is the new Fire Station design update kicking us off this evening on that is our fire chief Dave shoger Chief shoger welcome you can sit you can sit over there so you can good evening mayor and Council thank you for having me in tonight yep good evening so real quick I just wanted to go through a couple of pictures that show the design changes that were um worked through and make sure that you know we have consensus and direction to make sure the the decisions that are being made are correct and where you are all Landing as well so real quick I just wanted to show you where we were uh the original proposed design included that slanted roof the slanted Bell Tower um the pergola around the Outdoor Classroom and some red bay doors cnh offered us a few um Alternatives uh two weeks ago and um show them real quick here option one was shown with a flat roof the flat Bell Tower the same outdoor pergola and uh black apparatus bay doors option two was shown with um a flat Bell Tower overhang over the front brick entry an outdoor classroom small overhang matching that front one and black apparatus bay doors and option three showed a barrel roof section flat brick Bell Tower an outdoor classroom with small overhang and black apparatus bay doors what we heard from you is some consensus around um decisions that being that option one was favored with uh red bay doors and uh of a different shade than that were chosen in the original version that we were um working through so um a little deeper and darker red wanted to make sure that I had that correct that we were still in consensus with this and that we were ready to go ahead and move forward with cnh's decision or um building the rest of our bid schedule so just to clarify Chief shoger this option one that's showing here um is what we're looking for with the exception of we would add those red apparatus bay doors correct correct all right very good um do you need any Council um everybody in agreement with perfect looks like we have consensus here yeah I mean I I still think that that overhang is still looks a little bit heavy but um I I think that the in terms of attractiveness the option three kind of sets off and knocks down this rectilinear feel to it but I think that we discussed budgetary concerns and this would be a a lower cost option um So within that confine I think Can U make the trade-off between what will be something that's a little bit more pable breaking that up to bringing some cost savings to this very good all right Chief shoger carry on is that all you need from us that's all I need that's perfect very good then we'll be moving on I appreciate you yeah thank you so much Chief uh next item this evening item 6.2 is to consider the Professional Services for the Arboretum area transportation plan Highway 5 Highway 11 intersection improvements and presenting that this evening is our city engineer Cara Garen Miss Garen welcome the floor is yours good evening mayor members of the city council it is raining in case you did hard it's raining hard and it looks like it's plenty windy as well so we were we were observing um Liss is just going to pull up an aerial for me so um what were what this specific item relates to is the intersection of Cy Road 11 and um Highway five thank you by Floyd's so where we come into downtown and I don't have a mouse so I'm going to have to zoom in who I think it's just going to be easier I explained it in my staff report but it's going to be a little bit easier if I pull open a current aerial for you so um this impr mement to this intersection were identified as part of the Arboretum area transportation plan specifically to address the issue that anybody entering and leaving downtown experiences particularly during peak hours where if you're going to make a if you're going to go straight or you're going to make a left turn you find yourself wanting to make eye contact with the car coming at you to conclude if they meant to have their signal on or didn't mean to have their s signal on so as it's configured today um the the left and through movements are combined so if you're going northbound um into downtown or making a left to go to Waconia on Highway 5 you're in the left lane and then the right lane is a right turn only lane that configuration is the same when you're coming southbound from downtown to Highway 5 so if you're in the left lane and wanting to go east on five or you're going straight you're in the same Lane so what was identified as needing to be completed was to modify the signals at that intersection so that there's a dedicated left turn lane in both Direction and that the right turn lane becomes a through right lane um because the left movement is so prominent splitting the through movement into a different signal phase will help eliminate that risk and when we model this intersection it doesn't actually on paper look all that bad because the model doesn't account for the delay that comes from making eye contact making sure that the person's actually going straight or turning so um the reason why this is in front of the city council versus the county is that we want to tie the timing of these improvements to the improvements at 511 by Dairy Queen um we want to construct those improvements in a sequence that makes sense and the goal is to have this signal imp approved before the big Highway 5 project so that when Highway 5 is closed that we have this signal operating better than it is today um so the estimated cost for the design work is 79,000 um we so where we have this bump out here that's going to have to be REM removed the bump out is are you looking at weather on the yeah no stuff should I crawl under this desk or something are we okay yeah I'm gonna look at I mean Sirens haven't went off so at least here thund yeah they haven't they said nothing about tornadoes earlier in the day anyway that we're not but it's just so dark got crazy dark yeah look at the light PS look like they're look at that light P yeah yeah all right we are back we are back so the question to Cara was does anybody monitor those stop lights for Effectiveness from perod from time to time right yes so um the signal at 5 and 11 is um operated by mindat and it is coordinated with the other signals on Highway 5 and does have cameras on it so they are able to monitor that um and mindat is in support of this project moving forward to help improve that situation really regardless of whether or not we were making any improvements to five this would still be something that we would want to get completed good and Cara am I to understand that we have the ability to uh add those Lanes or those movements within the current right of way we don't need to acquire any property to do that that is correct but of course as they get into actually working on the design they'll work on preliminary design first and we'll know more once they start doing a survey and laying that out all right very good Council other questions seeing none I will entertain a motion motion to authorize boltman mink Inc to provide Professional Services for the Highway 5 South Highway 11 Victoria Drive intersection improvements in an amount not to exceed $79,950 we have a motion can I get a second second we have a motion and a second all in favor signify by saying I I I any opposed motion carries uh next item on the agenda item 6.3 is a planned unit development Amendment for hunters Brook Creekside presenting this evening on that topic is our city planner Brian mccan Mr mccan take it away yes thank you mayor and council members just need a moment here to get my bearings okay here we go yes tonight we have a PUD Amendment proposal for the huntersbook Creekside development from tradition development as you may recall they had to go through a revised preliminary plat process this past October with a final plat and PUD approval back in May for their third edition and then the final plat was recently approved back in June so the third and fourth editions approved 13 executive style Lots uh the proposed architecture shown at the revised preliminary plat stage showed Carriage Houses within the front yard setback they are requesting a modification to this PUD to allow accessory structures with a reduced setback from 45 F feet to 25 ft so here's an example that was provided at the revised preliminary plat showing the Carriage House closer to uh the road than the primary structure I will also note that the current PUD standard for the homes is 25 ft so it would match what's existing for the primary dwelling uh to give you some perspective on how that would look I've provided an exhibit here that shows a 25 foot measurement from the center line of the private drives where the properties lines are for these properties so you can see all the areas in red are areas where a carriage house would not be allowed all the remaining areas on those lots would be acceptable areas given they meet setbacks for the side and rear and then here's what it would look like for the fourth edition so still sufficient room on all 13 executive lots to have a Carriage House closer to the road than the home here's what was approved with the hunters Brook Creek Side PUD with the change being at the bottom to address the accessory structure front setback from 45 ft to 25 ft our Planning Commission did hold a public hearing at their regular meeting on August 7th we did not receive any comments from the public at the time and they recommend did the city council adopt the ordinance with a unanimous 60 vote so with that I have two sample motions for you on the screen this evening the first one being for the ordinance and the second for the summary publication of the ordinance staff can stand for any questions and the applicant is in the audience this evening very good thank you Mr mccan Council any questions on this item seeing none I will entertain our first motion motion to adopt the ordinance approving an amendment to the huntersbook creek side planned unit development we have a motion can I get a second second we have a motion and a second all in favor signify by saying I I I any opposed motion carries and entertain a motion for the second part of this motion to adopt the resolution approving summary publication of the ordinance thank you council member re can I get a second second we have a motion and a second all in favor signify by saying I I I any opposed motion carries on to item 6.4 which is a sket plat and annexation request for the Victoria commercial development again the hardest working sitter planner in the county Brian mccan thank you mayor and council tonight we have a sketch plat proposal for a commercial development titled Victoria commercial uh they have submitted a sketch plat to receive reive initial feedback from the planing commission city council they've also requested an annexation for a portion of this parcel uh so that will be the only approval or action taken this evening there shouldn't be any approvals or action taken on the sketch plat uh it once again is to provide guidance to assist the applicant in any subsequent preliminary plat site plan conditional use permit applications now regarding the location and existing conditions it's approximately 78 acres in size uh shown in the image on the left this is the entire parcel approximately 47 acres are proposed for annexation uh in the area I'm highlighting with my cursor and the remaining areas are part of the West Creek Village sketch plat that was reviewed last month now the area that we're looking at specifically uh is generally flat vacant Farmland there are some overhead power lines running through the property location wise it's north north of County Road 10 Engler Boulevard and west of County Road 11 Victoria Drive so here's the sketch plat that was submitted uh we really want to focus on the green parcel here this is a 4.26 acre parcel submitted uh with a proposal for a convenience store this would be our first South growth commercial user um as part of their requests they are also requesting gas pumps and that will be the item of discussion for this evening uh we did receive word that a potential second user is looking at this part for a highdensity residential product approximately five stories with 200 units so uh consider that as well in the discussion this evening to give the applicant some initial feedback all of these areas though that are shown otherwise are just speculation so nothing official those are the two that we have heard about on a staff level uh so the road Network would be coming from Road a to extend from The Collector road with the Victoria South proposal which would then connect to this road B which extends from County Road 11 Victoria Drive and then with a third small Road C connection to angler Boulevard County Road 10 on the South Side regarding the comprehensive plan it is guided for a blend of commercial Flex employment and a very small area of open space our commercial District does allow for 30% of the area guided towards high density uses between 24 and 50 units per acre our Flex employment area though should really be for high paying and high quality jobs more of a business park setting um for some uses think data center or manufacturing space these are all listed in our comprehensive plan for these types of uses uh so for a convenience store with gas pumps to go in this area a comprehensive plan amendment is anticipated to be required to line up with those commercial uses so here I've overlaid their proposal with the areas you can see the purple is the flex employment so the uh gas station concept here would need to be ruid to Commercial and then the remaining uses will just be speculative as they come in on a caseby casee basis requiring a compant Amendment or not for annexation and rezoning uh this parcel is currently within Laketown Township so an annexation is required our plan commission did review this at their last meeting and recommended approval tonight for the annexation request when the annexation goes through they'll automatically have an agricultural zoning class um and then regarding that it would need to be rezoned to one of our commercial districts that staff has been working on we believe that the C2 commercial District would be the best uh fit for this use because it is a community type commercial District supplying services to a community as a whole and not a certain neighborhood and then retail establishment is one of the uses that we've listed which would be a permitted use and then gas station pumps as an accessory conditional use which would require a cup looking at the bulk standards compared to their proposal they would meet all of the requirements as far as we can tell there is still one unknown which is the maximum Building height our district that we've proposed has a maximum Building height of 50 ft we don't anticipate this use to reach that 50 foot height but we will require a sight plan and building materials application with any future submittal to verify that regarding the parking for an automobile service station our code requires eight parking stalls with an additional four spaces for every gas pump uh based on their proposal they have 48 parking stalls shown which could serve approximately 10 gas pumps and meet our minimum requirements uh parking evaluations will be reviewed closer with preliminary plat subid once we know how many gas pumps they're proposing Brian can you go back to that picture just a second is yes um so these circled areas are the are the areas of parking correct I see the building are those gas pumps yes uh Central to the site here this would be the location of the gas pumps now we can speculate and maybe say you know two for each of these service areas um which would be our 10 and meet our requirements but until we get more detailed plans in the future with preliminary pl we can't know for sure very good thank you yeah moving on to the Landscaping they would be required to have Boulevard trees uh every 45 ft adjacent to the RightWay they would need a 30% minimum open space based on the proposed standards that we're working on for our commercial districts we'll have to reintroduce the open space requirement for our commercial districts plantings they'll need one tree and one shrub for every th000 ft of that required open space which comes out to about 56 trees and 56 shrubs Foundation plantings are also required along pedestrian walkways and Landscape islands and 4 foot plantings for headlights in the parking areas and then a 30ft landscape upper adjacent to the R4 residential to the north that apartment building as part of the Victoria South project once again we'll require land landscape plans at their preliminary plat midle but we don't need any tree preservation plans because there aren't any trees in the site that they're looking for for Parkland dedication the amount for their dedication comes out to be about a fifth of an acre or $22,000 in cash they aren't showing any land dedication for this parcel uh so cash is anticipated and the Parks and Recreation committee will review this closer at preliminary plot as well with that I will pass it over briefly to our city engineer for a few items good afternoon welcome back or good evening welcome back Cara great thanks so I'm going to cover a couple of topics grading and storm water management site utility and then transportation and access to the site um so grading and storm water management this parcel is located within Carver County wo so will those rules will apply not minata Creek Watershed District um Wetlands including buffers shall be located on outlots that'll be deeded to the city um what we would anticipate different from our other development within the city in this commercial area in this property however it ends up guided specifically or zoned specifically is that unless the land owner and the developer opt to do Regional storm water management will see storm water management on a parcel by parcel so as an example on these plans you were seen a proposed Pond um associated with with the building use so we would um in this type of situation we would anticipate that those facilities will be privately maintained by the commercial developer of the par parcel versus in our single family neighborhoods um the city maintains those ponds and other facilities um site utilities so utilities will be extended from Victoria South so sanitary sewer and water um are proposed to be extended to the property line with the development to the north what I do want to note here and this has been reviewed with um the developer is that well number six needs to be completed and permitted um for pumping by the DNR before we can provide services outside of the current city limits well number six um current substantial completion date is now September that has had been delayed from June I think maybe it was the last time I updated the council perhaps but um there's elements to the control panel that are backordered and are we're still waiting to get delivered for that to be up and operational um so the the well and the pump house are nearly complete but we're still working through the DNR permitting process so um applicant is aware of all of this and we stay in contact with information about timing for that as they opt to plan for how to move forward um trunk sanitary sewer will be extended to serve areas both to the South and West we're working with both this developers engineer and the engineer to the north to find the optimal route um for those facilities through the site so um transportation improvements are probably the more unique elements to this proposal compared to things the city has reviewed in the past so um what you're seeing on the screen here are the planned improvements to Highway 10 um that were developed as part of the corridor study that was completed for Highway 10 back like 2019 20120 time frame um if you recall the city council did not pass a resolution of support for the improvements on Highway 10 because the city has concern about how the commercial properties in this area and the fux employment properties will be accessed so um this isn't something we have to talk about tonight because they're only specifically looking at the two Northern um Parcels but as we've reviewed with the council this is something that now that we are having utilities down into this area and developments becoming a reality we're going need to re-engage in that conversation with the county about the vision for 10 as part of the same study um the plan the vision for Highway Highway 11 so from Marsh Lake Road all the way down to County Road 10 was developed as part of that study the city council did um pass a resolution of support for the vision of 11 and we in fact implemented those improvements north of the railroad tracks as part of the development of the um Land north of the tracks so as development starts to occur south of the tracks um we need to plan for those Transportation improvements that are needed to Highway 11 one of the complicating factors in terms of the timing to those improvements to Highway 11 is all of the other Transportation projects planned throughout the county so this is a snapshot of County projects planned between 2024 and 2029 and I don't expect you to look at this in detail only to note that the county is needing to coordinate all of these projects and the timing of the projects so that we don't again when we close Highway 5 we aren't creating traffic getting routed to a on a dour to a road that then's closed for a different project so originally the improvements to the intersection of Highway 10 and a Highway 11 um the intersection itself the county did get federal funds to improve that intersection but with the projects planned on Highway 5 that is now not scheduled until 2028 so we have potential Development coming forward so you know this parcel that I'm highlighting right here is the Victoria South project that the city has already granted preliminary plat approval to that has submitted a final plat application and then here we're talking about development in this area as part of a sketch plaque tonight um so the the portion of Highway 11 between where we ended the last project north of the railroad tracks through the access to these two Parcels can't wait till 2028 um you know when you're talking about a convenience gas operation and the amount of density that's proposed on the um Victoria South property property there needs to be turned lanes and access improvements on the county road to safely provide access to those sites um so the the developers both own the land they're also the land owners of this parcel and the bie parcel and so um we've been meeting and talking through what process might be able to be undertaken to get these improvements um completed more in line with the projects timeline so as these projects move forward forward we'll be back in front of the council with with more information about ideas we're generating to how to get that completed I should note that as part of those needed improvements um we are talking about quiet Zone um Crossing for the railroad track so the whistle is crossing to address the concerns that the council raised through the prior approvals of this area um those improvements would happen as part of the road Improvement project so I think that is my last slide before I hand it back over to Brian I'd maybe just check if anybody has any questions for me about that information thank you cara uh questions for Cara regarding traffic water sewer access and I'm not leaving so okay I can hop up there if there's questions all right thank you Cara and Brian back to you thank you uh at the public public hearing on August 20th with the Planning Commission they heard the annexation request which was properly noticed uh three members of the public did attend comment on the public hearing on items not related specifically to the request staff reached out to them after and had their uh concerns resolved the Planning Commission did recommend approval of the annexation request with a unanimous -0 vote uh regarding the sketch plat they did have some comments including traffic impacts and improvements with County Road 11 which Cara touched on just now uh as well as the water availability with wall number six they also had some concerns about the pond and berm locations and uh the implications if the annexation request was not approved so this evening no action is required for the sketch plat I do have a few bullet points available for you for disc discussion on the sketch plat and I have some Mo um sample motions on the next slide for the annexation request but we can save that for the end if we want to discuss the sketch plat first that staff can stand for questions and uh members of the application are in the audience tonight as well okay very good um great I think that uh with council's approval let's discuss that plat first and then we'll consider the annexation afterwards um anyone want te this up go first I guess my only question would be um uh talking about convenience store you know that can a is generic right now right so uh can you what kind of amenities this commun store might have please welcome to Victoria uh state your name and address for the record please uh Lisa Watson 9900 delage Road Bloomington Minnesota I am the real estate manager for this convenience store I will let you know this evening this is a quick trip this is a community that we have wanted to be in and um came to Victoria very very long ago to try to find out how we would get in this community and so that is why we are here this evening and the amenities would be a new 9500 squ foot store that we make um that we build that has actually new seating on the inside for approximately 12 to 14 people on a high top low top bar situation it has expanded groceries we now improved our store with a new vegetable produce Island and then expanded the grocery offering with meats and ready to eat meats and much more bigger grocery offering for the community so the 9500 also includes new self checkouts for customers who want that route instead of being waited on by our um co-workers um you saw in the in the sketch it is a 10 pump uh dual sided pump um and so that we can get obviously cars in and out very easily our lot is larger than most it's a 4.26 acres for safety for convenience um of the patrons so can I answer any other amenity questions um when you talk about the size sometimes right it's hard to understand so would that be similar to the newer station uh one in wakia versus the older one so the the the one on County Road 10 at the end in Waconia is the newer size store yes right and will it have a car wash it will have a car wash yes and a actually it's a one Bay right now and then based on feedback we can make it a two Bay if needed I believe okay good well it's great to hear that I mean we hear about uh groceries all the time so having you know even though it's not a full grocery store it has a lot of options so that's great to hear so we do um we do consider gas our secondary ancillary really we're here to provide a service for your community which is good food quality food and cost effective groceries for your community very good I'm just going to take a minute to to beat on your memory of some of your more what I would say more recent um quick trips that seen in travels so if maybe you can help me yeah so um and I'm going to couch it based on sort of my travel Direction so relatively recently I think within the last year and a half two years there was one that was built in Tomahawk Wisconsin okay Y how does this uh size up to that I believe it's the same size and Tomahawk even might be a travel station so we do two Travel Centers that are small and large and that one actually might be a small Travel Center so I'll have to check that and I can I can get back to you guys on that okay and I think you have one that's off of 94 as you're headed towards um I want to like say maybe Highway 63 the big competitor product might be a there was an existing U pilot yes um that one is a travel that's but that has diesel pumps it's a big so this would not be that size it would be smaller than that it would be smaller than that um we size accordingly to what the community needs um we will look at if diesel is of high demand and your work trucks in different vehicles within the community struggle with some of your other sites we will look at doing what we call a high flow pump on the outside Lanes so that anyone with a truck that needs a highflow diesel and doesn't want to stand for 20 minutes to have to fill their vehicle we do do look at that as an option so again as we go through um more approvals with the plan we will um look for feedback if if that is needed in the community okay let me just pep you with a couple more how about the the Medford Wisconsin one that's relatively that's a large one okay y that is this would be smaller than that yeah okay yep but the Medford one well there's two in Medford right there's the Medford that's north of the roundabout where the Walmart is and then there's the newer one that was south of that you destroyed the one on the west side of um kind of of uh 13 and then now there's one that's further south on the east side yeah I'll have to look at that but we would not do a travel center unless it was directly on a free usually a freeway access so this will be the it's what we call a gen 3 store um and it's our largest footprint and really again the expansion of it was for inside seating for people who want to have a place to eat lunch and then for expanded Grocery and expanded um coffee and drink bar so we can outside of a travel center will this be the largest this will be the largest store that we have okay we're actually working on a new one that you actually might be considered for if we get to that point that's a little bit better we can get there I know we can we're so competitive we can do it changing locations lot well that's exciting stuff I know we hear uh we hear very often from our residents if we can't get a grocery store can we at least get a quick trip so here we are so and now you know council member evansky is's a big quick trip we we thank you for your service Council you can guess who premium gas I keep buying very good okay uh any other questions for Miss Watson as long as we've got her standing at the microphone all right you may take a seat but don't go far just in case thank you um comp plan amendment I I am in favor of this I think this is the right place for this uh kind of a use so a comp plan amendment is not a concern to me I think um staff is right on the C2 designation um I don't see any concerns between the convenience store and the possible apartment building but what I would say is it would be great to have some kind of a nice connection to that that is walkable you know supports the a a trail that supports the pedestrian makes it look more neighborhoody um um Parkland dedication sure and yeah I think I this is a this is a use that I think we're excited about and excited to uh have it be a catalyst project to get the rest of that area going down there Council other questions comments just different thoughts council member Gunderson please heing on on a point that was made earlier about Parkland dedication are we going to actually ask for the land or are we going to ask for dedication and then are we going to use that money to put into an actual like planning for a park uh and I don't mean like a 3 Acre park or a Tot Lot or anything you know the plastic parks that we have all over town are we actually going to come up with some kind of park in that we've had uh and discussed in that particular area and had plans for other uses in those particular areas so um just think about are we actually gonna ask for the land and use it somewhere over there or are we gonna take the money and put that aside into a fund for a larger Park um Miss Hardy can you tell me do we have some restrictions around that Parkland those Parkland dedication fees if we collect fees we can only use it for Miss Nelson wants to talk about that go ahead please Alysa thank you mayor thank you for your question council member um one uh to answer your first question on if we're taking land or if we're taking funds for this I think that is yet to be determined and this is going to be brought to the Parks and Recreation committee um just to ask that various question on um what their preferences um and then obviously that would go back to you Council when it comes to um final um consideration but when it comes to if we do take Parkland dedication fee that is put a SE in a separate fund just for new parks within our city um we do have a couple new park developments that are on the pipeline however that is all reviewed typically during the Capital Improvements plan um each year through the budgeting process and that is also something that is reviewed um by staff but also the Parks and Recreation committee very good thank you M Nelson all right other comments questions when would the goal be to have this like open by I don't know how long it takes to build a yes thanks for the question councilman Roberts um we would look I believe developer is looking to finish their work next spring and then we would get it in the queue and that's why this annexation and sketch plat is important because it keeps us moving the due diligence process because once we put it on our Gant chart we like to stick to our timeline and say if we're going to build this store at this date so it would probably be end of 25 actually beginning of 26 somewhere in 26 that it would be completed that it would be completed somewhere in 26 so we know know that by the time they get the things done they need to do um then we'll come in and and build and our build is about 5 and a half months very good thank you all right can we bring the ghost plat up again I mean I'm I think I share council member gunderson's uh con conc ER about Parkland itself so I mean the on this particular parcel that's proposed I don't see practically speaking where we would get a space that's commensurate with what we're looking for so how do we ensure that when we're looking at um the 5.13 Acres that we in sure that we're going to get Parkland dedication from that because this what we've affectionately referred to as the triangle we' we've baded this back and forth about how that's not really been served with dedication and and really this is like this is where we need to focus on getting those amenities to the residents that are soon to be there and then the ones that are projected to be there in in a high density um mayor and council member evansky we have certain uh requirements based on the type of development that is occurring for Parkland edication so commercial is a separate category from apartments or town homes or single family usually a multif family product like an apartment building generates a lot more uh Parkland dedication requirements than a standalone Comm uh commercial buildings such as this okay so but I mean this is generating more dedication I mean I think where we're kind of headed is here is that we need the facility here we need the actual property not money towards you know hey there could be a park and I I think that part of our getting towards yes on the triangle as it was proposed with the green space was that you know the future South growth would would take care of that in the first project that we're seeing isn't getting there so um not that I don't you know I I share the mayor's concern I I think that this is this is a this is a good project for the space that we need and it ticks a lot of boxes and um gets a a product that's really meshes well with our community and and um and I'll an addent to that it it needs to have really good safe walkable uh access to the site because there will be a fair number of people that will be in the high density apartment building that's already been projected and probably won't have a lot of you know cars to drive around a block um and then the the town houses that are proposed as well I mean this is all going to be foot traffic that needs to get there but um I mean we I think it's incumbent upon us sitting here today to make sure that you know this area is going to get the land for a park and not get money in Li of it because I think we'll be uh doing residents here disservice if we don't make sure that those facilities are there very good all right other questions comments all right seeing none then uh let's move on to our motion to Annex can I I uh have a motion Council motion to adopt the resolution approving the annexation request from Laketown Township for Victoria commercial development we have a motion can I get a second second we have a motion and a second all in favor signify by saying I I any opposed motion carries very good thank you so much um next items 6.5 is a discussion on potential future amendments for our ordinances related related to fences signs commercial zoning districts and conditional and interim use permits who uh returning this evening city planner ran McAn and Associate planner you've got a coworker today okay Travis brierly thank you got Travis pulling up on the end there all right um very good this is a discussion item for us so Brian kick us off please thank you mayor and council members yes we are looking for some feedback this evening we are exploring the possibility of doing a zoning code overhaul a lot of our codes are from 1998 which are a little bit outdated at this point need to be updated to reflect our current comp plan as well as prepare us for the next round of our comp plan some of those districts that need immediate attention are our fence signs conditional uses and our commercial districts which we recently repealed and Reed some feedback from you all during a workshop this past April uh and as we just saw South growth applications are coming in so we need to have these commercial districts prepared for them to put them in the right place so the first item are our fence requirements for all of our fences we're proposing some different standards than what we have currently uh some standards that need to just be in place to have safe clean and orderly def fense construction consisting of a workmanlike quality with a single color with the framing inward these are some standards we don't have in our current language but are pretty common throughout communities in the Metro um it also addresses prohibited fences and inforcement and appeal processes and then also incorporating a vision triangle to make sure that there aren't any issues with fences at corner Lots so that cars approaching the intersection can clearly see around those fences and make a safe route through uh we're also proposing some specific standards as you may recall we recently approved an ordinance um regarding fences in drainage and utility easements stating that they're at staff discretion well now we have specific distance standards to incorporate in these situations so 6 and 1/2 ft to sidewalks or Trails 6 feet to storm water mains and 20 ft to sanitary sewer or water mains with that we also have height requirements so in a front yard a fence can't be taller than four feet with a zoning permit and then in the side and rear yard 7 ft with a zoning permit as well can go up to 8 ft with a building permit that is also a pretty standard fence language for the metro and then also incorporating some standards for commercial fences up to that 8T maximum uh for screening of outdoor storage with a building permit as well it must be compatible with the principal building it is required adjacent to any residential uses and a 15t setback from streets and driveways and now I will pass it over to Travis for the signs portion Travis welcome good evening mayor and councel um as uh city planner pointed out different for signs we want to make sure we have some specific goals when we're going through we want to provide cleaner language and definitions the overall regulations we want to have Fair non-content controlled regulations so we want to look at the type of sign not what's printed on it um we also want to make sure that we provide Fair a fair application process between residential and non-residential districts and overall we want to reduce some of the Clutter we have in around corners and in our non-commercial areas uh the other thing that comes up is with the clearance triangle we want to make sure that we reduce any potential hazards of science going up where could cause an issue with being able to clearly see intersections between motorists as well as pedestrians moving on to conditional use permits so our current language as I mentioned a lot of our other ordinances was last modified in 1998 so standards have changed since then um it does not aggress or address any Amendment procedures um and then also has requirements for Sunset dates and annual review CR criteria uh as well as denials not being able to be reviewed for a year after denial these are all non-conforming standards that we should address with this draft to eliminate those so the proposed language would clearly Define the intent applicability and duration of Cups it formalizes those processes that we've been doing such as public hearings ordinances and recordings um also creates that amendment process which is similar to our standard cup process IT addresses non-conformities and it also provides a link to our Shoreline district for any additional cups that might be required within Shoreland areas and then finally looking at our commercial districts so I've provided a few slides of the primary uses I don't intend to go through this list one by one we'd be here for a while if we did that but it was provided in the report so I'm sure if you looked you probably have some specific question or concerns about some of the uses presented uh we can go through those this evening otherwise if you want to look ahead at the next few weeks and if things pop up feel free to reach out to staff this isn't an ordinance adoption this evening we just want to get initial feedback from the council and we figured this was the best way to do it and then the same thing with our accessory uses as well so uh primary uses for the example that we just saw the primary use would be a retail establishment but an accessory use would be gas pumps where we have them listed as conditional meaning they would need a conditional use permit for the gas station piece and then we also have some bulk standards proposed now you'll see our Central business district uh doesn't have any setback requirements that's to promote the walkability that we've discussed what we have in our current ordinance we're really not proposing that many changes to our Central business district uh one of the them being the height maximum of 50 ft but then we have the neighborhood commercial District the commercial or Community commercial District which I just spoke about briefly with the last case and then modifying our standards for our current i1 light industrial district as well as part of the ordinance we're also proposing some design standards for screening of equipment and loading docks some lighting uh practices for any parking lots or building lighting as well as primary and accent material minimums and maximums as well as types of materials that would be allowed for the sightings as well as the roofing as I mentioned we're going to retain a lot of the central business district requirement design standards so not many modifications there we're also looking at parking lot setback so 20 ft from our right of way 5 ft for the CER rear yards and a 30ft separation between between any parking lot area on a commercial property and the nearest residential property then also allowing some of our local businesses to have accessory structures that are compatible with their primary building as well as instituting 10t setbacks um a number of structure per acre requirement and a maximum area of those structures this also would prohibit membering tents or shipping containers as structures Travis and I have seen in previous communities that those tend to create more issues um to avoid using those and then interim use permits so this would allow a limited period of time for a use that's not reasonably addressed in the code uh same process as a conditional use permit so public hearing would be required uh the only difference is that maybe 3 5 years down the line the permit expires and they'll either have to come back and get an extension or the use has to cease on the property so with that we're proposing conditions and termination timelines as well and then with the all the uses that you've seen this evening we also generated definitions for each and every single one of those which was included with the packet as well so uh lots of reading unfortunately but it's very necessary and useful information so with that that's what we're proposing and uh we look forward to hearing your feedback all right um I'm going to say right off the bat I have not read our ordinance book from cover to cover so can you tell me um generally uh you did a great job kind of with an overview but generally where are the biggest differences in what we have currently and what you are proposing that might cause some concern or some angst for our residents I would say out of the four ordinances that we have in front of you tonight probably the signs and the conditional use permits would be the two biggest changes uh mostly because we have language in there that is non-conforming with statute requirements and should be addressed immediately I would say those are the biggest changes a lot of the commercial District language um is pretty similar to um a lot of commercial districts that you'll see regarding like use is uh we do have some enhanced design standards and bulk standards compared to other communities not all communities have interim use permits as well so that would probably be another big change uh but all the fen's language is pretty boilerplate from other communities that would see mayor yes please may I comment um I don't want to editorialize because I don't have a legal comment I like you haven't read this carefully yet I'm I'm going to have been asked to but I haven't done that yet um you can appreciate Council that uh if you're a City attorney type lawyer half your day is spent dealing with zoning and subdivision applications and the zoning and subdivision code and interpreting it and sort of dealing with those issues that's a big junk of what I do all day I would say that that section of your code is the hardest section to write both because it's constantly gone through by staff and by the public and developers and land owners but also just because the concepts are sort of ephemeral Concepts that it's hard to put in writing frankly um so it's the hardest section of the code to write and then compliments to the staff I mean this is sort of a greatest hits of the hardest sections of the hardest chapter of the code to right um so that's all preliminary to what I was going to say and staff will correct me if I'm wrong now but my understanding of what I'm going to be reading when I start to dig into it is that there isn't a movement here to fundamentally change policies they're not uh staff is not proposing to change uh the way things are done or the policy objectives of your code there are just some things that I have over the years commented on need to be tightened up or need to be brought into conformance with state law or need to be written more clearly whatever the case may be again not at all a um not not the um casting dispersions on prior writers of your code this is just really hard stuff to write but we can do it better um in these sections and so my understanding is that's sort of the the object uh of this lesson is to try to get to sort of better clearer more defensible language not to fundamentally change the city's policies on these things very good thank you appreciate that well this I know I think maybe way back when I started we talked a lot about signage out right but a lot of development signs will this kind of help clean that up I'm hoping because that's always kind of a oh like the development right yes and there's like 300 on one corner right like yeah yeah we've that's that's a recurring them yes yes for sure other comments questions for staff about this I I'm counc struggling with eliminate non-conformities isn't a conditional use permit exact to address non-conforming uses where allowing it to be conditionally used and our is it eliminate what do eliminate non-conformity um sorry that's probably not the best way I could have put it in the presentation it's to eliminate non-conformities with state law not eliminating eliminating uh property non-conformity so sorry for that other comments or staff I I just kind of have a couple questions so with respect to the fencing what you've put in here in their Council packet where you're going to replace what's on the curent ordinance as published right here right in the code and replace it with all of this here correct that is the intent okay because I I see things in here that are light with respect to some of the things that we already do um and some of the things that we already have in here um make sense to belong and stay for instance um and you know the um the need to have a property surveyed before that fence goes in um I've looked at Chan hass's ordinance and they specifically state that the city may require a survey I don't see that in our proposed language I think that that's a huge protection that we need to have for instance especially when it's concerning people who are going to erect fencing next to city-owned outlots um Council has seen emails of other residents making it known that they have concerns about people encroaching on City Outlaws we have several examples of it we've had several problems where we've had to arbitrate these concerns because other residences residents have done that over time and um the best way to prevent it from happening is to be as prescriptive as we possibly can and have a clear and stated in our ordinances because as we all know we've had to make revisions to clean that up so uh I I think we need to take a a second look at blending some of the things that we have I'll I'll be glad to have a discussion with you guys offline about some of the things that I've seen but um you and then that sort of drives some policy implications because I think that certainly to our neighbors to the east they've they have crafted their policy for instance around what sits in their ordinance for instance they do an inspection and when they do an inspection they want these lot Corners to be visible so that survey markers can be seen so that they know that the these are sitting in the right spot um and the um and some of the other things that I think we might want to consider is we do a good job of if it's a commercial fence how do we deal with non-conforming instances and the the trigger Clause at least in what I'm seeing here is if the the business changes then that triggers uh you know a need to reexamine the fence well what if we have a non-conforming residential fence we don't have anything that protects um in those instances so should we consider saying hey if there's a property transfer and there's a non-conforming fence um property transfer should probably trigger those corrections to be made or if there's a significant amount of Maintenance to an existing fence you know perhaps a standard maybe over 10% of a fence that's maintained that will trigger that fence on that property be brought in compliance with the with the city um so that we don't have these grandfathered straggling problems that cons continue to persist and then when properties are sold to somebody else we don't get them cleaned up and we're sitting in this well in this situation of again having to arbitrate well that that already happened nothing happened about it why are we not taking care of that why are you coming down I mean those it just avoids those kind of complications and questions so um and like I said I'll be I'll be glad to have you know meeting with you guys about some of my other clearer thoughts but I think that those are the kind of things that we can start to make a better product for both our residents and the City um with looking at this thank you thanks all right other questions this is a discussion item only so we don't need to take any action on this this evening so um seeing no more no further discussion I'll move on all right um we are moving on to reports and emerging issues attorney B you're up first mayor council thanks no I don't have anything to report all right m Hardy anything from you nothing from staff Madam mayor all right and anything from the council yeah UMC member genderson my heart goes out to the 3,000 victorians that don't have power right now um so there is no timeline for estimated restoration and it's funny it's all along a corridor that all has aerial power so maybe we relook at our undergrounding franchise fees with that I don't have anything else all right anything else Council all right seeing nothing else I will take a motion to adjourn motion to adjourn second you have a motion and a second all in favor signify by saying I I I any opposed motion carries stand a journ go find out if your house e --------- ##VIDEO ID:7E3789PetY0## e e good evening it's now 5:30 and I call to order the workshop of the Victoria city council our workshops are informal so we'll get started we have just one item on the workshop agenda this evening which is our proposed 2025 fees and charges discussion kicking us off this evening is assistant city manager Trisha Pollock Miss Pollock welcome thank you mayor good evening mayor members of the council as the mayor said we're going to be discussing the 2025 fees and charges for services and in addition we're going to review our um arpa American Rescue plan funds and also um talking about our 2025 budget and Levy this will be the um last Workshop before we present the max tax levy to you in September starting with fees and services our sources of revenue are primarily taxes so 84% are property taxes and a small amount of franchise fee for um cable and um 14% are charges for services so such as permits licenses and then other sources would include some interest and some other miscellaneous um refunds and reimbursements how we determine our revenues and fees can be based off of a few different sets of criteria so um one is the market comparisons we set our fees at the upper quartile of the market some fees are set by external sources such as our building permits and then others may be set by a cost recovery method um um so that they can be self-supporting where possible this is our revenues um that include the fees and uh charges for services um this slide shows the three-year average for fees and also um the new building permits you'll notice have are showing quite an increase in the plan check fees as well and that's because um we are going to be basing those fees off of 144 new home permits where in 2024 we were at 130 so having those additional permits um increases our fees um we are also projecting facility rentals and Recreation fees to increase due to the number of uh participants and um also an increase on our interest income due to a trend in higher interest rates while we we know that we don't know what those interest rates will do however um we do anticipate to have um somewhat of a higher revenue from those interest rates do you have any questions about any specific one of these line items just Council any questions anything jump out at you that you want to bring up here I know it's a lot of information so I just have a quick comment I I would have a little bit of reticence thinking that interest income that we're going to make is going to be the same I think that it's been clear that short-term interest rates are projected to take a dive there's a lot of conjecture that might be three Cuts in this remaining year of 2024 by shortterm rates regulated by the feds and um if the employment situation continues on the path that it's been on for the past couple months there's going to be a propensity for them to lower rates so I would suggest that we be cautious on what we're forecasting in that so that we uh don't find ourselves counting money that we potentially don't have yeah I agree council member even um so as you can see because we' had such low some volatile lower interest rates in um some pre more recent years our budget was only 30,000 for interest for 2024 right now we're closer to like 200,000 so I felt like 80,000 was still being conservative um while it looks like a $50,000 increase is sign ific um I don't think that $80,000 is necessarily too high of a number and you said we're at over $200,000 for this right around yeah this year um and we have been able to buy some fairly decent um CDs with this higher um rate so we have some Investments that are going to hold us through 2025 um with some of those higher rates so which is good it's good to be able to purchase a few of those CDs um while we can get them at four or 5% Council other questions comments so when we look at these um proposed increases in fees these first four are Community Development fees and they are new fees so um the zoning compliance letter um City staff reviews the property records issues zoning compliance letters and outlines relevant zoning information um since we currently are not doing that um we are proposing to have a fee for that for cost recovery um that escrow um basically for the that same reason um the escrow would be refunded if it wasn't used so that fee um would just be for the time that is spent on that um zoning ordinance and then the minor subdivision escrow um again that's a cost recovery and if it's not used it will be returned and the resoning escrow um the same so um those four are new um and then that fifth one the Community Development the Service rates SE charge for staff expenses and excess of the application fee so those are cost recovery fees that we would build back um for those above the application free fee services and because our staff wages have increased we haven't had an increase or an adjustment to these in quite some time so this is basically to catch up for the um actual cost recovery rate um Public Works same thing um just adjusting those rates um to catch up with the increase in wages and benefits that the city's paying for those for that labor um and then Administration so those three items are um all cost recovery related and we currently use those we currently charge those fees this is just an adjustment to what that fee is exactly those three um so like if we have like a data request that we end up having to spend more time on then we would um bill for that service according to our fee schedule and so we're making an adjustment to that based on our wages and benefits and the actual costs on these um new fees that you're proposing at the top say a little bit more about those is that common for I mean I would assume we took a look at our Market cities to see if they were Jo you know if they were charging those kinds of fees I'm I'm sensitive to this because we are a developing community and we want to attract that development we don't want to deter people from doing that because of these extra fees so C about that and how our Market cities and others around us yeah good question mayor um so Jen and her staff did do some research to where they came up with these fees and gave me some examples I this may not be all inclusive of all of the research they did but for example Bell Plane um charges $50 for that um letter Waconia is $30 shwood is 50 Carver is 25 Ardon Hills is 75 and Chan is 65 so they um decided on 50 um again with the escros um other cities wona Shorewood Arden Hills were all at between 500 and 1500 for those escros and then um between a th000 and 2,000 on the minor subdivision as scross so um so for the most part we we went in the middle yeah for the most part we're in the middle to Upper Edge but like I said with the escros that's just an amount that they're going to give us they're going to get refunded if we don't spend the time on that on that on that task or that process so um it could be that if it went over that then we would bill at that rate as you see in the um lower section ction on line five then we would Bill additional services at that rate above the ,000 but it's just an amount that we ask them for um and then we'll determine everything can take different amount of work depending on what it is so it's at our discretion whether we can operate within so if it's standard and straightforward we would probably refund the Thousand escrow at what point do we kind of determine what's appropriate what's not appropriate can you give me an example of that um Dana has an example Miss Hardy please thank you mayor members of the council before I answer that question I maybe a little bit additional context into this so um we do run a fairly lean Community Development um department so especially in our growing community and and with that we've been spending a lot of time on I'll call them like these onesie TWY um evaluations and looking at at different things they take a lot of Staff time and um and and they're not necessarily um there's not necessarily the statutory time clock that comes with it like these other development proposals and so we're trying to balance um in some ways we're trying to recover our costs because we our staff is stret thin and we've been prioritizing those larger developments that have those statutory timelines um related to them so we still want to be able to to get to these things but it does deviate um our attention from some of these other things to to work on those items so this was kind of part of that discussion and solution and how and just being able to collect an usir up front um it also um kind of helps I I don't the word that's coming to mind is tire kicker it's not necessarily tire kicker I'm having a hard time finding the words tonight but um we we just want to make sure that we're using staff time wisely and we can certainly if there's something that's very St straightforward um I think our team is very good in making that judgment and we would not collect that escroll but there are some things that um might have a little bit more layers of complexity to that and I think that's when we would um collect that escrow and as Trish noted um we wouldn't we would return the escrow whatever the balance is that that we're not not using so so I think I think the pro the heartburn for me here is how much staff time are we buying for in a for $1,000 do does this person get 10 hours of our staff time do they get five hours of our staff time it it feels certainly it feel it doesn't feel very objective it feels very subjective isn't isn't we're going to have to do the work or potentially right so we're just asking for the payment upfront and we do the work and if it's less money than what we took from them we give it back if it's more we'll end up billing them more right so it's just saying like you want to come in and do this right like we need this upfront and if it's like and then we'll do the work and if we it's again if it's less then we'll give you your money back and if it's more I I don't to me I don't think this is going to dissuade people from coming right like we're talking about a th you know a small amount of money for when they're building multi-million dollar developments right and it's based upon this hourly rate right 70 for professional 50 for clerical so you get up to what 15 to 20 hours of time for that ,000 okay is that yeah makes sense yep okay okay so um continuing on um we're looking at the Victoria recreation center and some fee changes um the gymnasium they're proposing a half court rental they've only had a full court rental so this would be just half of what the full court rental is which is $40 so I'm just adding that option in there the birthday party package they're removing that bundled off option they're just going to do a all a cart for what each person and party um chooses um the multi-purpose room um they have a rate for if you want either room a or room b or you can rent both A and B so um those are new um the way they have that structured and then the park uh Lions Park pavilion rental all of the different levels um whether it's weekday weekend um or resident non-resident or nonprofit um there the rates are going up uh generally um most rates will be up $50 there's one that's going um up I think a little bit less the um weekend rate for the nonprofits any questions on those changes I would just say with the Lions Park pavilion rental uh I mean it's always busy so I don't think this is going to probably dissuade people from using it but I do think we should be cognizant of right like it's a great community um place to use it's I mean almost every night like I know from experience you pretty much have to get online at midnight the night you the year before you want to book it right and and to get your day that you want so um I don't think it's going to affect that but we should be careful like I guess in the future right how much we raise it so that our residents are able to you know take advantage of that great space agree okay um then for parks and wreck um there is a um adjustment to the cancellation and refund fee from $5 to $15 as for cost recovery um even to issue a check it it costs more than the $5 so um changing that process um and then the Community Gardens um it's a new small plot fee um they base that off a market at $40 and then all of these the rest of these Recreation Center rates are all changes um to the structure and how compared to how we're currently billing um our members so they're revising it um to increase efficiencies and how they manage their membership so both an employee and the patron side um it will be an advantage for so the yearly memberships are going to be eliminated so with our new online format um they are able to have the same feel as an annual membership um but also we'll have the freedom um being able to cancel or pause a membership throughout the year so it doesn't require new patrons to renew a membership every year um it will automatically re renew month-to month um they're also getting rid of that what we had was a gold membership um which um gave other access and benefits to the member and they're just opening up that those benefits to all members so um it simplifies it everybody will have access to the the fitness center the gym the group fitness classes locker rooms and open skate um and then they also have created one discounted rate for youth um active duty military and senior members so um really that is um the biggest change you're going to see is that we don't have those annual membership rates anymore how how does that work for somebody who has an annual membership today meaning does it just go to their expiration a Lista might know the answer to that because I I'm not really sure how they've decided to handle that I can see please thank you mayor thank you council member for your question um yes just how you predicted we would wait until their annual membership is expired and then transition them to this new um rate structure makes sense thank you and then um we're going to discuss utility rates and any changes that we make to utility rates um discuss our Enterprise fund budgets um discussion in November so this is all we have for um those changes utility franchise fees so this slide is looking at our utility franchise fees um this is the um electric and gas franchise fees um it's a 10-year projection so 2025 through 2034 um in 2031 our original undergrounding Debt Service will be paid off so most of our increases that you see on that right hand set um that higher fund balance really starts to to build more after that um after that debt service is paid off after 2031 and then [Music] um just to kind of give you an order of magnitude so our ster Lake L Lane West project that we did undergrounding on the cost is about 640,000 to do that stretch so right now we're projecting about $250,000 fund balance at the end of 2025 so we're really looking at starting to build some of that fund balance up in case we have another project that comes along um knowing how large those projects can be and how expensive um we're looking to start to try and rebuild that up a little little bit and then um without recommending any changes to the increasing the franchise fees Trish does this also take into account the increase in population it does that we're projecting okay great all right any questions on this okay then we're going to move on to the 2025 general fund budget and Levy so the June preliminary budget Levy projection was uh originally 7.49 when we talked in June um after the guidance that Council gave to staff um at that Workshop to try to even out the year-over-year levy increases we are now proposing a Max tax levy of 12.47% so what changed so the highway 5 Transportation projects and the fire station Debt Service payments are driving the levy increases for the year's 2025 through 2027 so we've increased the long-term Street Maintenance fund transfer by $4,000 which does reduce that Levy increase in 2026 by about 10% so we were originally looking at about 24% with that 7 49% or original increase for 25 now adding in that 400,000 to the long-term Street Maintenance fund we're able to go up to 12.47 and then 14.65 so it really um evens out that uh that increase quite significantly what else changed from June so um Additionally the change in the projected tax rate from June will be um about 0.55% um which is lower than what we had originally anticipated and the reason is um we we did um get some numbers from the county last week um that is showing us a higher than expected fiscal disparities numers so we should be receiving about $992,000 additional dollars that we um in comparison to 2024 so that that affects that tax rate in a favorable way so unfavorable changes to the budget since June include an increase in the Carver County Assessor and prosecution contracts and also uh anticipated higher increase to our health insurance so we had originally budgeted in June we had about a 7% increase but um from talking with our Brokers um there's they're suspecting that they're going to come in closer to like maybe 20% at the high end and probably at least 15 so we're going to go into max tax at a 20% and then hopefully we'll be able to lower that when we get our final numbers in October what we want to just make sure that we're covered um going into max tax okay this is saying we're budgeting for 133% increase the 12.47 yeah mayor members of the council I can clarify that for you that's a plus 13 on top of our 7% so we're adding an additional 133% than to the projection oh yes sorry thank you yes um so home value um tax rates so I just listed a range of different home values and between $300,000 home to $1.5 million home and as you can see the anticipated annual increase at that 12.47% Levy increase and a 30.3 37% tax rate um gives you about a $59 to just under $300 a year um increase in taxes on those home values so the general fund Levy includes both operating expenditures and transfers and the operating expenditures are going up about $9,000 or 1.4% where the transfers are going up approximately 2 million most of which is going into the long-term Street Maintenance fund for those road projects we talked about our debt service Levy is going down slightly about 178,000 and then overall the total City Levy um Pro proed to be about 99 million um with an projected increase of about 1 million okay so just to clarify here that transfer into the long-term Street Maintenance is what we're collecting this year to even out the debt for 26 so that money will stay there it will be used for a long-term um for the road projects that we've got going on just want to clarify thank you yes uh this is our updated projection so you can see here with the 12.47 um estimating 14.65 in 26 and then 27 14.38% um we get into like where we'll be bonding for our water treatment plant and then that will be in our Enterprise fund so that will not affect um these projections so so the city tax levy process um as you know the city can still lower the levy after Max tax um is approved in September but we cannot increase it so um we are required by state law to have a Max tax levy um certified to the county before September 30th now we're going to do a quick review I know you've seen some of these numbers before but I just wanted to um since we're coming to the end of our American Rescue plan funds um spending and planning um process kind of do a quick review of Where we've been then what we're doing now and what we still have planned to do um so in 2022 we received about 1.1 million uh in arpa funds we've been able to complete several projects primarily in the water and sewer departments these projects that um we did not have in our budget to do um so um it has given us um a a very significant positive effect effect on our operations for our utilities departments so you may have seen like I said many of these um projects mentioned in the past um but I just wanted to go through them in case anybody had any questions um these projects that you see on here have been finished and then these are the projects from 2023 that we did last year um so a couple of them there the water treatment plant effluent and influent meters um that was a partial completion that has now been completed in 24 and then the um water treatment plant remodel that was partial um that has also been completed and we did um significant um improvements to our fiber in security for booster stations and our well 3 and our water tower so 2024 year today um we've been super busy um making some significant purchases um for our our um utilities department so um we have to have all the money spent by the end of this year or under contract if it's under contract at the end of 24 we have till 202 end of 2026 suspended um but it has to be under contract so uh we're we're expecting to spend all the money this year um but they do have a couple of items on this last page that um are under contract those top two items those are remain remaining work that has to be done um and then there's a couple of items the booster station upgrade and then a jedhe head for new um 6in drain tile those items are estimated we're planning to do them and then we have a few items that have been ordered um so we're just waiting for the delivery on them um which include the the items for our lift station 19 upgrade and our um solid pump replacement and our easement reel um so we're estimating earnings interest earnings on um this money to be right around right now it's around 37 38,000 so if you add that into what we have left um we have approximately $160,000 um remaining which staff is recommending um using that money to replace all of our Park signs um our Communications Department has gotten an estimate for signs that the cost would be about 111,000 if we replaced all the signs at once if we didn't buy all of the signs at once the price to go up 25% or about $28,000 to to kind of do them in different phases um and we don't have an exact quote on install yet um because they haven't done a site visit but with the bases it would be give or take 50,000 so um we think that that amount between the install and the sign cost would um use up the rest of that ARA dollars and I trust that's a permitted use for those dollars yes it's not in our budget and um so and it we're not doing it to reduce the levy which are the two things that we can't use that money Council questions comments on this on the ARP pce or yeah ARP yeah let's let's stick to the arpa pce for the moment okay okay all is good there all right moving on then I have my Council discussion slide um to ask do you does council agree with the proposed changes to the revenues fees and charges okay let's start there um council member evansky does this does your question fit under that I yeah we we brought this stuff before I think it's still in time I would like on our fee schedule to examine increasing our part seems that the projects that we've been seeing are routinely coming in where developers are not giving a SL for these developments and just keeping the can down the roades that feels like we don't have the right sweet spot balance between where we could get the dedication in terms of land in places that we routinely see hey we're not doing a park here because there's one that's far away or relatively close um and if we we have a captive audience I think in terms of where development is coming from it's coming in there's other places other places around us where there less and uh I think if everybody just keeps hitting the pay the fee it seems to suggest that we probably have some room to take a look at that and bring in we're going to not um get the land which once development in you can't there's no land fa to come by so I think that we begs the question are we where are we at in terms of our neighbors and I don't really have won't lose sleep at night if we're on a high I think that it's it's our one chance to get it the we're going to look at a sketch plat tonight where that very topic comes up where developer wants to pay Park dedication so I'd like us to examine that if we have an opportunity to raise revenues in that area that um we push the envelope that okay um why am I thinking in my that there that's set by stat statute is that correct Miss Hardy or Dana was can Miss Hardy please so I thank you mayor members of the council um there's there's actually been a lot of discussion around Park dedication fee at the legislature and um within the different city policy committees and I I um I think it would probably be beneficial I I hear what you're saying I think costs are there's a lot of press budget pressure um for developing parks and putting in the amenities that the community wants to see and um and we're feeling that as we start to develop those Parks out um with what community members want in those areas so I think there's certainly an opportunity to talk about um all the different like kind of a park dedication 101 is part of our our next budget discussion um as we talk about um the just the park Capital piece I think that would fit really nicely into that um I think our City attorney probably wants to weigh in on some of that because there are some very um prescriptive legislative things that we must follow um when we're considering Park dedication so I think there's a really good opportunity to um to have a conversation around that as part of our next um budget conversation this fall thank you other questions comments I I would like to hear from my Council colleagues um those development fees that are being proposed those new development fees I'm kind of feeling like that's kind of the cost of doing business for a city who is under development and um just curious from my Council colleagues how they feel about that so your you're your questioning we we're at on perhaps the appropriateness of of us yeah I feel like for a cost recovery yeah I feel like um you know we've we've got a great staff and I understand we're pretty lean but oftentimes um those proposals can even though that one might not work it's good for us to make those connections to that development community and maybe be able to pull them in again at a future date and um I just I feel like that's sort of the cost of doing business and that's part of being a growing city so that's kind of my opinion on it but curious about other thoughts I mean I guess I would agree that it's the cost of doing business and I mean I think we just have to be cognizant right because we've you know we've seen housing first letters and stuff such right to make sure that we're not on the radar of you know overcharging type thing but I mean I think we've tried to do a good job of staying in the middle right or you know so well I think what staff has proposed here is feels like a good balance between not collecting anything for these almost there i' say time wasting efforts they they they work hard and they're trying to drive development and these kind of things sa them from those abilities to get those things done um our neighbors have imposed similar structures and were certainly from what I heard tonight price in the mle so I'm comfortable with them going and finding these places for Revenue we talk about Revenue all the time we constantly go over this we're inextricably linked to property taxes don't it we hear from our residents there I want grocery stores so that that can be tax AR iire paying property tax you don't develop a new business bringing tax so here's here's an opportunity to recover cost not necessarily Drive Revenue um I think I think that it makes a lot of sense and then U many of us are old enough to remember the television commercial you Fram oil filter pay me now or pay me later um if we continue to keep absorbing these things then next year we're going to be sitting around saying why are the budgets going up because staff is telling us that we need to add more people resources to keep up with the load of Demands being placed on on the city so I think it's it makes sense to have cost recover the potential for a little bit I think of a tap that breaks on these sort of hey this might cost me a bit maybe I need to think twice about going forward with my proposal on wasting time you know and so I think that these things represent a balance of reducing that moral hazard and you know bringing bringing our budget back into a little bit better thanks other thoughts I think if if it's justifiable and clear and it is a qualification in a sense of these I'm I'm okay with this approach I don't but I don't want to be on the other end of what they call nickel and diming and things like that so I think the way it was explained if I'm understanding is that's an upfront fee but again if the hours aren't spent you're going to get that back right and if that is the approach I'm okay with that okay mayor members of the council I don't have clear consensus yet on I've heard two concerns and to comfort with those and we certainly have until we typically don't adopt our fees schedule until the end of the year so there's certainly time for you to think through that but I just wanted to let you know at this time I don't have clear consensus on on I guess if I wasn't clear I I'm supportive of this so so you are or aren't I am supportive what we do then I okay very good thanks but lastly H how do we feel about you know what we're seeing as um what I'm interpreting and help me if I'm not that we're we're seeing some um fiscal disparities coming in higher than we anticipated and so U are we now looking to sort of offset that by lowering the tax rate with that is that the net result where yeah council member evansky that that affects our really just affects our tax rate so um we usually just project whatever we had the prior year because we don't really know sometimes it goes up a little bit sometimes it go down a little bit we don't know necessarily what all the other communities are doing um for commercial business so um what we get from other communities basically what our share of the pot is as they might say it's really hard to predict um it's really impossible for us to predict so um it could it could go down again next year but we just project it to to to remain steady I mean sort of there's there's a part of my head is the two-headed monster one side says hey this is great that we can lower our tax rate the other side says when we looked at this last we seemed reasonably comfortable with bring letting our tax rate rise so that we are good stewards about the future where we're not having this surprise pump and and people just really come in with a massive amount of hat like why did my tax bill go up so high so I think you're last time willing to stomach the bad medicine now and have things to increase maybe a little bit more or increase to the edge of our comfort level with it and say you know that we're we're making good decisions about where the future is so in that vein I'm almost of the opinion that we go back to where we were and use and this uh essentially windfall and fiscal disparity to plug into what we're going to need to pay for these road improvs that com for these it's no secret to us here that live in Victoria that a lot of this traffic that's going through here are essentially for other communities to make their way through Victoria and you know certainly benefit our own residents but if we can have fiscal disparities come in and fund some of that and we have what we originally projected for running Victoria the services that we thought I'm I'm inclined to keep try to move that fiscal disparities into the city of Victoria's favor you know and go with what we felt was where we wanted to set the tax rate before this we do have a fire station that we're going to talk about tonight that is expensive and that's going to have to come from um from our residents as well now we're a growing Community we need that station our that it's something that we have we will have to spend money on but I am also just really reticent about what's happening in the future and I I just we know that these projects are going to come in more expensive than we think and those Levy increases are probably going to be larger than we're projecting out I I would like to see us be able to use this opportunity here to be prudent like we thought we were and um have those really flow into these these road projects okay Miss Hardy you have something to say about that thank you mayor members of the council so as you're you're thinking through um what council member ivanski is um is saying I just wanted to let you know that um what's within your control and that's the levy and so to do what council member evansky I what I think you're recommending to do would be to increase that um to increase the pro the proposed Levy so from 12.47 to something a little bit higher to get to that um to whatever um amount is to get back to that original tax rate so um we can certainly do that um if there's uh consensus to do that direction to do that and um and that would just mean that we would bring you something that is higher as than the 12.47 that we're we're proposing tonight Council thoughts on that I understand you know saying this is not money we plan for this is a windfall let's let's take this money that we haven't planned for and park it into this um long-term streets fund where we can use it to pay for these things that were that are coming up um I which would increase our Levy um I'm I'm uncomfortable with the number of our Levy increase and I under even though I completely understand why we're doing it to increase it even further if you kick the can down the road you're looking at a 22 to 24% increase Chas has seen those three or four times over the last 12 years you're do you want a do you want a 20% increase in one given year or do you want to flatter we planned for this versus we got to pay for it now yeah this is this is why we're I increase I thought that's why we were going from the 7.49 to the 12 correct 47 right that is correct and then the 14.6 85 14.65 yep that is correct so to to flatten that right so we don't have those big spikes a little over 3 and a 12% is a lot easier to stomach than 15% because people go what the hell are you doing what did you do with our money why why are we not better prepared for this Spike so that's the choice we have I I we either be we either plan for where we're going or we don't and by 2028 If We Hold to our numbers we take a 11% decrease anywhere between 5 and 11% on a decrease in four year in well what would roughly be four years is is has people applauding so I I I don't think you see that if you do a 22 to 24% increase which is what I think it was is going to sit at uh if we see interest rates drop um and we're not getting back what we need on interest in some of the other things while we grow maybe offset some of that but projections going out next four years there's no way that I would gamble on things getting better because it seems every 10 years there's some something new we've got to overcome going back to 1999 for municipal governments so it that's where you're at I mean you went from the tech bubble bursting the housing bubble bursting to co um that's the last 30 years in in how how we're doing so you're looking at 20 32 probably for the next issue to come around so if we haven't planned for that we're probably not in a good position so I would say flat flattening it as best we can over the next three years the next three budget Cycles would be in the city's best interest uh residents best interest and then 2028 we're looking you know at you know we increase it say let's say we do it 8% we're still 6% from 2027 that's that's just me so you're agreeing with Greg saying that we should raise 12.47 up a little bit no I would leave it I wouldn't reduce it any and increase the the numbers for any other year going to inre I think you're saying to raise it though from 12 right but we wouldn't touch the next two years right because we have the fall is that what I was wondering yeah essentially would when we looked at this last we had an idea of how much this would interest and while we all had some degree of heartburn over it we said that this is going to you know get us to a place where we don't have these larger moves out in the future now what I think I understand is that we are not going to do that we're going to go lower than what we talked about last time because we had this 96,000 coming in from fiscal disparities and my position is like let's go back to the rate that we were comfortable moving towards and then essentially use the phal experties to have that much bigger and big budget that will then be able to move more into transfers to cover where these entire expenses are going and potentially you know like essentially maybe lower that 14.65% to maybe 13 and a half I don't know what the numbers are but I think maybe by the you know we don't have to make this decision today but you know like let's look and see what that looks like next time we meet on this so that we can make an inform decision can we look my inial mean is that we had a number that we came to you know a great deal of consensus with um and you know now we seem to be going the other way I I want to balance this the right way I I want us to be thinking about our future even though it might be a little bit more it even though we um we're we're being given an opportunity so to speak that we didn't know about before so maybe what we need to do is go back to that what has changed since June since our last conversation so we went from the 7.49 what was an initial up to the 7.47 12.47 I'm sorry 12.47 thank you because we wanted to level out those future increases so um so we were going to go to 14.65 and with the changes we got down to 12.47 is that does that seem right we so oh no that's the 2026 Levy was the the increase with the concern it was looking to be 24.68 most of that increase is because of the issuance of The Debt Service for the fire station and then the downtown west Phase 1 road project so um in order to Levy level out the 25 and 26 levies we increased the Street Maintenance fund by 400,000 and then we were able to um flatten that a little bit so it's 14.65 okay so I don't know to answer your question council member evansky I'm not sure that we knew what that number was before we said yeah we do want to even that out can you move to the next slide that shows where how much more we got in phisal disparities or they backside here we go so what's our maybe the question is is what is our net gain from fiscal disparities after all this other stuff so the well it's hard to say with the health insurance piece right now so um so our current tax rate is like 28.4 if my memory serves me so we were looking at an increased tax rate when we talked in June at like 29.82 so we're looking at like a 1.4% increase um from over 24 so this slide is just showing what the effects of that fiscal disparities does to that um that tax rate so it directly affects the tax rate so well yes we can increase the levy by putting more money into the long-term Street Maintenance fund um it it would maybe it would maybe put the tax straight up at about maybe 31% is so then you're looking at a 28 to 31% increase so I guess if that three4 of a percentage roughly I'm just kind of working numbers in my brain so um not exactly but if that's comfortable I mean we can certainly do that so what I'm hearing is my understanding is we can't really take this pot of money and move it over here like we'd like to how often are fiscal disparities favorable meaning how many years are we favorable in the last 10 versus how many years are unfavorable that's a good question I can go back and pull up that information and and get that out to you um I know it went down slightly from 23 to 24 um but we were seeing kind of of a steady increase not like huge jumps not I mean I feel like this year was like a larger increase than we've um normally have seen but I can go and pull the data to give you some more solid numbers and is this if that's money we can count on then maybe we can do something a little bit different with it but I still wouldn't count on a fiscal disparity to even out a budget yeah agreed agreed all right um other questions comments do we want to proceed with a Max tax of 12.47 or do we want to look at something a little bit higher I think we should look at something a little bit higher we have until our next Workshop to do it let's have the two side by side and evaluate the direction okay I I'm not opposed to that yes Hardy mayor members of the council thank you I just want to say um we do have to adopt our Max tax by the end of September um and so we won't have a workshop to discuss that unless you want to schedule an additional Workshop specifically for that discussion so um we will have the so this Workshop was uh we were hoping to get the direction that we needed to prepare that Max tax um certainly if you don't have the information or you want more information we're happy to bring that back to you but right now uh we were not planning to have another Workshop to to discuss that what I will say again and you all know this but just to say it out loud um the maximum tax lbby is just that it's the maximum tax lbby so we can certainly set that a little bit higher to give you you some wiggle room um to make decisions before the end of the year when you would be adopting your budget so you really have until the end of the year with the adoption of your budget to determine where you want that Levy increase to land for 2025 so you s you you have plenty of time to make that decision um that doesn't need to be done um tomorrow or next week but for maximum tax purposes um we need to certify that to to the county before the 30th so we would have the two meetings September 9th and September 23rd I think um and if we need to add another Workshop to discuss we're happy to do that so it seems like you potentially if we are considering raising it slightly that we look at a slightly raised one in September because later we can reduce it back down to 12.47 if we want to but we can't do it the opposite I I think that that summarizes yeah and I'm okay with that approach as well of looking at the option the other option yeah a slight a slightly increased tax levy just to kind of see what that does to our future and what it does to our rates if we take the 14.65 I think for 2026 which is what I think what 12.47 does to it what does that do for the next four years that would put more money in the bank for the roads and gives it and lets us understand exactly how much we'd be reducing spikes then and maybe reduc ing next year uh so it'd be a it'd be a we double the tax levy from last year roughly at 14.65 or a little less than that um on Max Levy and then be able to see where that where the road money that we're putting away goes what it does for f for the future of that project um if we're if we need a number that's the number to use um 14.65 yeah that because that's the Levy number that we'd be using for next year that would be 26 yeah that's 26 is Levy number that we'd be that you'd be talking about so um if we're going to raise it that's I'd raise it that number I wouldn't raise it anything above that um but that would give us the the dollar amount that we'd be using this year and then anything that we increase it between 12.47 and 14.65 we just add to that $400,000 number and that goes in the street that just goes into the street fund I don't see why we would we know what staff needs we know what the this is with $400,000 in it I don't know why we would try to add anything else to the budget that's not being asked for um on if we're not going to pair anything down uh on okay I yeah so if we're not going to pair anything down and get and the staff budget is staff budget then all we're talking about is a road budget uh which is right now at $400,000 because any reduction to this number reduces that number unless we're willing to reduce what staff needs to do their jobs and I don't think we've I don't think we've talked about that but I don't think anybody back here wants to reduce that number so $400,000 what we're talking about is adding to the street fund not reducing staff not reducing a staff bu budget um because that's what that number is the 12.47 has $400,000 set for Street fund we increase it any any amount that we increase this should just go to the street fund and that we're just putting more away and yeah understood um council do do you have a dollar amount or a uh tax levy amount that you're willing to that you want to take a look at that you want staff to bring back for us to consider are we looking at another $100,000 do we want to know what that 14.65 would do to our street fund thoughts well it's not really the street fund it would be what we're doing then how would that show what the projections for the budget for the next four years would be that's what because that's the levy we're using so then we'd be able to project out what do we need for the next four years to do these projects and we're just taking a bigger chunk of it this year Council anybody have any thoughts do we know what the tax rate we projected in sorry what was that question tax R sevener than 12.47 correct so the tax rate with the 12.47 um I think we started at 7 7.49 yeah we started at the 7 49 which is what that this 29.82 tax rate was and that was an increase yeah and over the current which is 28.4 don't quote me on that it's roughly mhm and then and then we went to the 12 to help even out those spikes and now we're talking about going even higher than the 12 so at the 12 it was 30.37 it is because we got the um favorable change in the fiscal disparities I can get that information you what the 12.47 tax rate would be without that fiscal disparities I think that's what your question is that's exactly where I'm going would so that I'll get you that information I just don't have it available right here I mean I would be comfortable with if you know if that if that rate is like 13.1% I mean I would comfortable setting our there knowing that we could always bring it back down to this we have to we have to come and we can't come in higher we can come in lower but this is our you know if we have to a deadline of September this is the time that decision Y and we can always bring it back down but we can't bring it back up okay I would I would just add to that I mean I I understand where Derek is coming from with the going to the 14 six I think whatever it was in 2026 I just that's a really big jump and I like I the whole point was to red right to minimize the amount of jumps we're doing and I feel like now we're if we do that we're back up to you know a doubling of what we were at so I right that just seems like I mean because we were at a 9% 8.99% increase last year so if you're looking at 8.99 up to 12.47 is you know still a jump so going 8.99 up to to 14.65 might be even a more of a jump do we have consensus for um finding out what the diff What that tax rate would be with that fiscal disparities bump and yes taking a look at that for a Max tax yes all right very good uh do you have what you need from yes I believe so I can get you that information tomorrow Dana can send it out to you okay very good any last comments on this I don't want to rush anybody this is big stuff it's important stuff no I'm fine thank you mayor okay anything else okay seeing no further uh discussion there are no other items on our Workshop this evening so may I have a motion to adjourn motion to adjourn second we have a motion and second all in favor signify by saying I I any opposed We Stand adjourn we will gather again