##VIDEO ID:Fxpb1VaCrbA## e e e e e okay welcome everyone to uh the September 16th Park and recck committee meeting uh we will do a roll call as we always do we'll start at this end Greg McCurry Amanda kahill Terry cul Larry Schulz Mary Larson Jacob Paul okay thanks everyone uh the first item on their agenda this evening is approval of the minutes so has everybody had a chance to review those and if so somebody want to make a motion to approve those yeah oh sorry I just had one maybe typo to update um uh in one of the per end of the paragraph um said committee discussion and it's at the very end of a sentence um the the desire to have all Trail connects I don't know if that was meant to be trail connected or connections or something but okay all right anything else if not a motion with that correction would be in order I'll motion to approve with the correction okay Terry is there a second I'll second second by Mary any further discussion although in favor of approving the minutes with the correction uh say I I those opposed say nay the minutes are approved okay next item petitions proclamations suggestions or complaints from citizens committee members or staff don't have anyone in the public here this evening uh anybody on the committee have anything they'd like to bring up heard from anybody no no okay um then we have uh a couple of things staff has some updates I believe so Jenna do you want to yes ill Us in so um things have been a little busy on the park and Ro side so we've got some updates um in terms of projects that have been happening at the Victoria Recreation Center um so the painting project that was underway a good majority of the summer um is complete minus a few touch-ups here and there that our city staff will handle um so if you haven't had the chance yet to check out the recreation center uh it definitely looks a little bit more fresh a lot more bright we've received pretty good feedback um from the public that's been coming in so that's been wonderful um we've also got the concrete project that was scheduled for the back area to um increase accessibility to get rid of the lip between um entering the building and the sidewalk that has been completed and is done uh We've also um been working on fixing the flag pole to be able to get the um flag erected and so uh we've got the parts for that ordered so that should be um completed soon um and then the Landscaping in front of the Victoria Recreation Center we've been been working with the Parks and Recreation and the Public Works team to come up with a plan for how we're going to address that and so uh you can definitely check out um the parks and trails uh projects page for updated information ongoing but a very Qui quick synopsis of um what that is is this fall we're going to be working on getting um the weeds removed um taking away any dead shrubs putting down a weed barrier and mulching it to prepare it for um over the winter and then in the spring it will be um planted with new stuff and freshening it up around there and so again uh for any of those projects feel free to check that projects page and we'll update it when we have more information there um another update is to to um our Deer Run Park 1 location so earlier this year as you all know uh there was a installation of a new uh playground um unit um and so in terms of feedback from residents and um just in terms of space that we still have able to utilize we've been working with the contractors to add in some additional features there and so with the space that we have provided and the funding that was still remaining from that project we able to move forward with that so we're in the final stages of planning out what those would be and the intention for this is to be able to widen the age gap of um what this part can serve and so some of the amenities will be um some more climbing features things like that that are more appropriate for a wider age range so families with kids of all ages will be able to enjoy the facility um that also is listed on that parks and trails um page project page site so you can check there for more details um and then just in terms of upcoming events we've got donuts in and Victoria happening this Wednesday it's uh themed this this week is U meet your CSO so feel free to join us at um 9 at the rec center uh We've also got uh a first ever women's self defense class that'll be taught this Thursday evening so if you or anybody you know would be interested in signing up um that would be a great opportunity and then we've also got Barnyard Boogie happening this Friday um held in collaboration with uh Chan Hassen it'll be at the Chanhassen Recreation Center um so those are the things that are coming up okay any questions for Janna oh I do have a question I didn't see it on here and it still might be out there is the survey still open yes abolutely okay yeah how long is that open so the survey is going to be open until um Mid October and so there's still plenty of opportunity for people to get in there um and so it's available online we've got lots of signage around um the city in general but a lot of it around the rec center so um there's still opportunity to get feedback in there great we've had a pretty good response so far there's well over 200 that have already which is really good so we're hoping to get more in the next month or so yeah um to have a pretty good grasp on what people are saying and and then um another survey that I got separate from the rec center survey was in relation to a um program that my child had participated in over the summer yep so were their surveys sent out for like all programs or just like select Key Programs I mean I thought was great I don't remember having received a survey about like participation in a program and feedback on it so just I wanted to hear from you like what new there yep so new this year um all of our programs that were run inhouse so our two different playground camps as well as our youth um t-ball and Coach pigs leagues all received a survey um so that we can get feedback on how the season went things that we're looking forward to um you know potential opportunities growth things like that and so this is something that's going to be ongoing for any of our programs um that are run inhouse um and so we launch that this year and that's something that we will continue to do to make sure that we're getting the feedback from the people who use it the most okay great yeah that's great okay um moving right on there's no old business and we have a couple items for new business new excuse me new business the first is uh uh a sketch uh plat for the commercial area yes so um this first one just as a reminder um we are not doing any approvals or actions for the course of this meeting um this is a process um to provide guidance to those that are applying um to um have those developments and so this is for both of the projects that we've got coming forward tonight this is a great opportunity for us to give feedback before they move forward with any development so um I encourage you to share as much as is um you can about the implementation of this development um so the first one that we are discussing is um in that victorial commercial area and so if you look um at this so what I tried to do and you'll see this image um more than one time uh just for the sake of um trying to get a good grasp on where this image is um and so for this one we are looking at the yellowish um like Golden Rod kind of color that is the Victoria commercial section that we are referring to and only a portion of that commercial section is being um proposed to be developed we will see a picture later on in this presentation that has some potential designs um for other areas but I will make it very clear which one is the one coming forward as a proposed development and so this section is um the bovie property which is located to the northwest of Highway 10 and 11 intersection and the proposal that's coming forward today um its intended use is um a retail establishment slash um auto service gas station so um it is a quick trip that is being presented so on this page I'm trying to make it as unconfused as possible so for the the one on the far left um this is mimicking the same direction that is in that middle image um just so you can clearly see um which direction everything is facing um but the sketch plot itself was presented um in this direction um and so for these this is the area that it's covering but this um proposed development is happening right here these sections are potentials of what could that space be utilized for uh but this is the only one that is a actual proposal and so in this large space it's just this um quadrant up here that is being proposed to be developed currently any questions on this slide before I move and then so the Victoria South adjacent to it y so that um is a development that is occurring um Right Above It yep that we that's town homes that we sketch pet earlier on this one that says by others this is one that you've already reviewed yep um so you'll notice that on the other one okay all right so for a commercial um development they do have requirements for Park dedication as well um for that um The Proposal um did not include uh a dedication for Parkland um but they would be required to fulfill the requirement so either it would be um the acreage or the dollar rate um and so something that we will be considering later on is um how do we want to move forward with that with with fulfilling that requirement in this type of an area and so you'll see listed um what those that formula is um and what it would be for this particular location all right so for this um proposal uh first question that I have for everyone here unless you have questions before we get to this is should a park be recommended for future commercial development such as this that's comments so meaning in like it's already a requirement that they either dedicate land or Cash correct but meaning in any commercial development should we consider there a park to be there MH in over the cash yes essentially the question is in a commercial area would you prefer them um fulfill the requirement by dedicating uh the cash um fees or do you want them to develop a park in that commercial area does it does it depend on the circumstances for example in the downtown west uh there's uh what I've seen and I don't know if it's going forward or not but know apartment buildings with retail under it um that might be a little different I don't know if we need a big Park but having a like a Town Square or a some benches or some Gathering small gathering spot I think would be nice in that area for a quick trip on a corner someplace probably not uh so I don't you know at this point in time I'm guessing that the this commercial area self commercial area is you know other than Quick Trip there's do we know if anything else is going in there and what type of things going in there at all I right now the only development proposed um for that commercial area is the Quick Trip yeah yeah so so right now that is the only thing that we know of that is going in that area so so for that particular one my my thoughts are that you know really wouldn't need a park in the Quick Trip uh that area itself and I I guess I would my thought would be take the cash and if the other parts developed and it ends up being a lot of housing in there and we want to have a little town square or something we have some funds set aside to do that uh potentially as my own thoughts on that I don't know what others might feel differently I would agree with you Larry is this like a question that you're trying to kind of stream line a process where you yeah so um kind of two parts one do we want one for this development um and again this is only for that one small section of the commercial area not the not the thing at large but is it something that we want to consider so it's part part A is do we want it for this particular development and then Part B of the question is would we want it in um a larger development which I would say it to your point um if there are residential that would be a different consideration um we're kind of thinking more so if it's commercial so businesses not necessarily residences yeah so I guess my question is was like um was this originally zoned like commercial you know where we are right now with the the space here and the library and and whatnot because now we have the Beautiful you know bans shell park space I don't have the history to that Jon dates me yeah yeah I mean I I just I mean I'm thinking ahead to like I I don't you know for this in particular that little edge of Quick Trip yes it might not make sense but if there's other things that go in there that are zoned commercial but yet like it makes sense right here you know if this were Zone commercial and and that beautiful you know bansel Park area is now a park next to it like this does make sense you know um so you know basically dependent on what the other things are if it's a gas station slash convenience store probably not but if it's you know other you know businesses that not just office building but other things where people would gather uh it it it all depends on what I guess what it is it's could you go back to the kind of the photo and I had a question about the that that'd be helpful just to see while we're having the discussion that's perfect thank you this one or the main no this looks great this for me at least this helps me visualize what we're talking about do you know if the there's like a dashed line kind of along the a what top a dashed line on the top here is that a trail what is that where below ref like below the red yeah where it says Victoria Drive County Road 11 right to the right of I know what you're talking about so the proposed development on the picture on the right okay you have the proposed development and just to the right of that there's that dotted lines that go north and south yeah East and West that's a what it's a road it's not I think that's a power line actually but is that a I was talking about the one along that's parallel to the road that dash line is that meant to be a trail or is that just a no idea which line on the top you just point on the TV screen line oh yeah okay that's just the perimeter of the location it's not a tra you know and that's probably a probably a good I was going to say the only thing that seems like we might want something would be a trail in front of that quick trip like a trail connection I would agree with that we've talked about that whole um County Road 11 going out towards the lake town you know wanting that all a trail at some point so now would be the time to do it so at least on that side of the property MH uh I would think we'd want them to do that as part of the development and you know maybe that's I don't know if that suffices as their park contribution or not if Trails or not I would agree and I think as there's commercial developed into that corner there's going to be kids like mine who get on their bikes and go down there and buy candy whatever or the ice cream bar or something so I think from a park perspective we want to make sure that there is the ability for to safely move from the neighborhoods to the north of that down to that retail area um I think that would be something that would be important just because I know that as my kids ride around town and they always end up somewhere with a you know couple bucks in their pocket buying something so yeah and chasa has a pretty good trail system if you keep going south on Victoria D so you could just keep going MH so yeah be nice to be able to connect up to that other thoughts so what I've heard so far is we don't necessarily see a park uh solely for quick trip but we kind of want it open for dependent what else might go in there for other for other space and that we want to be cognizant of uh having a bike trail walking path uh Long County Road 11 so we don't have a gap there yes because once it's once it's there it's harder to we we found out it's a little harder to get things done so yep I was J I was a little surprised to see a road coming in off a Victoria Drive um to access this commercial is that isn't that a it appears to be a road coming off Victoria Drive into the the quick Tri Quick Drip area mhm right yeah I mean they would need a way to yeah drive into so is that going to be eventually round about there do we know what the county plans are for it it dep it depends on what the rest of the development ends up looking like so everything in this section here is not developed um and there's no proposals to develop it right now so as of right right now the only um Road addition would be the ones that would access the quick trip so the rest would come when the rest would got developed so that raises another another question and perhaps there isn't an answer at this time but is there any desire to have sidewalk or something through that area eventually I mean if there's a road goes in there to Greg's point earlier uh you know one thing they'll be able to access the quick trip but uh if the there's another candy store that goes down here in the corner uh I I don't know just a question yeah I think it would really depend on what else goes in there CU this has like high density residential in there and then you would definitely want some sidewalks and I guess I guess there's still room because that whole development if there's a road that goes in there it's going to abut anything new that goes in there so probably you know our thoughts there are going to be based on whatever comes in there at that time we'll still have time to address that but I think we're all in agreement that for sure County Road anything along County Road 11 should have a bike trail any anything else okay thanks thanks for the maps too putting them on the order so they match up and we know where they're at yes I was so confused that last meeting I was like I couldn't get straight which direction things were going yeah it's always a little confusing when the map that you're familiar with is a different orientation than the sketch plot itself um so did my best to try to Pro provide you uh the most accurate information a lot of this was my own self-discovery too so very good all right so the next one that we have to review is the sketch that was presented for the I can never say this one kuchenmeister uh residential development um so again same concept um as before no approvals or actions are needed um but please provide um any feedback on the direction of this proposal so for this area um back to that same map that I had showed you beforehand um the development that we're looking at is the one in the dark purple um far um to the left here um and so this one is proposing 163 single family homes and 80 multif family Town Homes um so this is the area and then just uh we'll come back to uh neighboring parks in a different slide so as I move forward I'll be pointing out where um the nearest parks are um but this is an overview of the area and then moving along just a little bit more this is the plat that's being proposed itself and then um a little bit more of a rough sketch um so this is um land that was the West Creek Village um development um and then something to consider is this is the Creek Side Lane and so there is a stretch here that could potentially be a trail connection um if that's something that you want to consider um but if you take a look um at um this one this is uh the layout for um the proposal for this um development yeah so they'll have access from Creek Side Lane as well as from Engler bouard if a trail is added but I will get to what they have proposed here in a second no I mean traffic traffic yes okay it will be cars yes from both Creekside Lane and um from Engler okay all right for this particular proposal um there has not been uh a proposal for Parkland dedication um so again they will be required to fulfill the dedication um but they did not make a proposal themselves um so you'll see the formula for that dedication um and if you jump down to the end um combined for this um entire proposal it'll be um that uh just over a million dollar point or just under 10 acres of land that would they would be required to so it would be one or the other um but as I had mentioned previously um there is not currently in this development a proposal for any sort of Park in um this residential area so uh to give you an idea of where neighboring parks are so we've got um this purple spot is where the development is being proposed um to the right of that is the Marshall uh proposed Park um that one is one that is not currently developed um this one is the closest one to this development um and then next to that um closest would be the uh huntersbook Park neither one of these are developed um and as of right now we do not have um the funding secured to be able to develop that so there is not a timeline in which that will happen um so that is something to keep keep in mind as we're making our decisions um and then from there we've got the Lakeside Estates Park and the Lake Town Park which are both anywhere from that three and a half to four miles or more um away for sidewalks and Trails um for this proposal there are also no sidewalks or Trails included in the proposal how so so how is that on purpose do you think like are they are they trying to like get by without it I have no idea okay okay I just they they won't be able to get away from the requirement yeah um but by not listing it um it gives them the chance to propose what they want but this is where our feedback comes into play um in terms of how we want them to develop the land because as I had indicated it is just a proposal so it still has to pass through City Council in order to move forward um and then so just to continue on the sidewalks and trails portion um while nothing was included developments are required to put sidewalks in um at least on one side of the road for residential developments and then for um you know density is over three acres per unit sidewalks um on both sides of the street are recommended um and so that's something that you could propose as a recommendation um so those are some additional things to take in mind I guess I would have the same question as you if if a developer has developed in Victoria before and they know the requirement is to put sidewalks on one side of the road why wouldn't they include it in the sketch plat like did they not research what was a requirement of the city of Victoria every time someone makes a proposal our uh planning uh team is very good about making sure they are aware of the requirements okay um and so they do know that if the thing will move forward that they will have to fulfill the requirements whether it's in the original proposal or not okay and this is pretty close to three units per acre it says 243 new homes and 83 Acres okay all right and then so we can bounce back and forth between the discussion questions and the um pictures um but uh first question is are do you have concerns um with there not being a proposal for a park in this residential development and I will bring us back to the development layout I just have a quick question is this adjacent to the one we looked at two months ago yes so the one we looked at two months ago is right next to it and there's no Park in there either cor okay you know when I first saw this and without knowing where the other Parks were uh I thought well that's quite a few people living in there without having a park or some space nearby but if there's one within a half a mile that we don't have funds to develop um this might be a way one option would be to use some of the funds that we get from the dedication to develop that closest park there and then everybody in that area would have have a park and it's 5 Acres so you could probably do you know something you know similar to meline Creek or something like that where you have playground and open space and or whatever but I you know I think normally for this many housing units you'd want something relatively close and I think our guideline is what is it a half mile or is it a mile best practices is within and a half mile okay so we're right on the we're we're just over that actually yeah and depending upon where in this because uh the way that it's been mapped out is the approximate is coming from the center of the development so if you're on either Far Side it would increase that so it could potentially increase it up to a half mile to a mile and that's probably too far for what our standard is if you know if we're the city of lakes and Parks um it's also a precedent Hunters closest park neither Marsh Hollow nor Hunters book are currently developed so the closest developed one would be Lake town which is three and a half to four miles away isn't connected anyways yeah um I drove out did anyone drive out to this I drove out to this so it's really quite interesting so Engler bulevard you can see where that farm is where the road will go in so I don't know I if this is someone's personal farm that they're keeping you know along Engler Boulevard but this just sits up you know you can see the the farm fields and everything and then it's it's quite a lot so I drove around the other way through Creekside Lane and there's that that's a lot of houses going in there and a lot of um um development so if if someone's coming in Creekside Lane I would say that it's an absolute that Creekside Lane must have trails along it because that's going to be the main Inn for so many more Vehicles right and so and then if you're a pedestrian and your closest potential Park is going to be walking along Creekside Lane to get to either that Meadows or Hunter Brook like I would say it's like not even a question that we must require sidewalks along Creek Side Lane um and I guess the the the question the biggest question I had is if we had any sort of timeline as to when either of the closest parks would be able to be developed because again you're not going to go out on um Victoria Drive because there's no Trail connections to get up to those other existing parks and then County Road 10 there's no trails along that right now either and it's 55 miles per hour right but Engler Boulevard is going to get or angler is going to be Carver County is going to be changing that to four lanes in the future they've been studying that road they know they've got to expand that so that is that's a long range expansion that's happening on on County Road 10 with Trails well I don't know about Trails but that's County Road so we don't have any on that yeah well they typically I think last a couple years ago and we talked about that the county was you know they didn't commit that absolutely but they said when they when they expand those they look especially in residential as they look at putting the trail in at the same time so but I don't know what the timeline is on that I have a and I'm sorry if this has been covered before but the allocation of the dollars is that does that money is it earmarked specifically for Park development in another area can it just disappear into the slush fund of the city no it's specifically for so it's specifically accounted for an earmarked for Park development within the city of Victoria yes okay so so our options are to recommend that you know a park space be provided within this development or we could take the park dedication fees and since we don't have money to develop one of those other Parks develop the one take some of that money and develop the park clo or the space closest to that that that's been set aside in whatever other development that was or maybe a mix of both right I think yeah even a smaller park within this would be beneficial and then taking some some Park some money and using it to develop either that park or one of the other bigger parks to your point earlier if we're the city of parks and lakes and you allow developments to be built with zero Parks it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to the kind of the mission of the the community wrer the Mantra of the community I agree is there is there a balance to find of take a half a million dollars and bring it over to this park and then allocate certain amount of space in the new development I think that could be I mean this is far out from any other park I think feels like it needs and then just to remind you of the conversation that we had with the West Creek development um because of the type of land that they were proposing um your um feedback was to take that money um instead of the land that they were proposing um and so that is something to take into consideration with that is that um if that proposal moves forward and is able to be carried through then the money from that project would be Parkland dedication fees okay Jenna can you remind me again how far it is to the hunterbrook park approximately two miles depending upon where in the development you are yeah that Marsh Hollow park I'm trying to remember that one so the the hunters book Park is marked clearly with the city of Victoria sign it's right along there that says future development City Victoria Park is this Marsh Hollow park not yet because it's still very much fully being developed and the developers are doing grading and things like that that's okay I didn't see it so yeah that's why I asked and this doesn't say oh so they're similarish sized parks hunterbrook and Marsh Hollow they have five acres and 54 okay six okay so similar similar sized but there's not a budget to build them I guess I really like what you said about let's find a h let's recommend that they find a happy meeting medium so that the development has a park but yet there's some money that can be set aside I think that's probably the winner um because obviously I think the developers Builders are trying they higher density allows for more profit more affordable housing or you know they so at some point that's why the Lots keep shrinking yeah so so we need to set Parks side apart or aside for that because people don't have the yards like I have at my house since my house was built in 2009 n the Lots now are half the size of what my house is on so you can't play soccer in the backyard like you can at my house right so I think that makes a park even more important um but there's probably a balance there to Jacob's point do we know and some of the that's that's excellent point do we know if uh there's any are we aware of any future development next to this which way I mean the yes right I mean answer yes unless that what we are I would assume yes but there is um nothing that's currently being proposed for any of the bases you know and you know so the question is at at some we need to park in the area yeah I mean there's no question about that and I think even with our standards and I didn't realize you know when you said you know if our standards half a mile we're already you know some on the one end are going to be close enough others aren't and so we either need something in the development so I think the the split makes sense and then we know we have it there um and then when we have future ones there you know maybe on the far end there's room for a park and some of these others I don't even know how the Farms or whatever breaks out in that area but um so any other thoughts comments I just have a question more questions sorry so how are parks prioritized then are they prioritized by like when the development happen so like I don't know if Hunters Brook development started before Marsh Hollow park development it did so uh they are would hun based on um city council directive okay so you guys can make recommendations to city council but it's City council's decision as to how we move forward yeah but okay so there's not a precedent like this neighborhood was built first so therefore they get the park funds to complete their park first that's my knowledge okay okay so what I've heard so far is there seems to be building a consensus about around this area needs some Park land and uh well not necessarily the full-blown you know what was it nine acres or supposed to have that we can kind of split would recommend having some of that Park land and taking some of the money to be able to develop you know other Parks or even that Park for that matter um and the only thing I would add to that is sidewalks yeah well let's talk about sidewalks and trails next alling sidewalks isn't that already a requirement uh sidewalk on one side is is required and it's recommended depending upon density on both sides C can we go to that uh map of the development itself that one yeah so that's Creek Side that goes through there the so that one we talked about there's a trail we've talked about a trail so I think that should be a trail at least the side of the road the right through Creek Side that that seems to be a main artery and will be probably even in the next development if it comes so that would be a good one to have make sure we have a trail on and so I don't know what the difference Trail and a sidewalk I guess a trail is a little easier to find for people who are out walk or riding their bike whatever so we have a chance to do it right let's do it right um so I think my thought would be at least on Creek Side we should have a trail and I I think sidewalks you know there's City Rules ordinances already you know they should meet that and I guess the Planning Commission deals with all that sort of thing too but I guess we can put our two cents worth in and say at least a sidewalk would get people to the trail um you know if you got a you know little kids that you're taking out for a bike ride or even bigger kids going on in their own be nice that they don't have to be in the street uh to get to the trail and then we don't also have people coming 15 years from now saying we want a trail because we can't get to our area Now's the Time to do it can't get to quick trip to get there slushy like my K I agree I I think where Creekside comes in and goes through it's similar to I live in Lakebridge and we have kind of a we have a Parkway that runs through the neighborhood behind the houses with a trail next to it and it's great because that carries most of the traffic to the further parts of the neighborhood but it also that's where the majority of these people are walking dogs and and biking and that's it's in my backyard right I look out my deck and the trail is out there I it's actually really nice because it saves on traffic going in front of all the houses and then we have sidewalks on one side and they all you know connect up and I think it's a nice model that it works well yeah um I think we would want so that the green line was proposed as a trail in the previous sketch plot I think from two months ago yes yeah that's the that's the side of the road when I drove down creek side that the trail is so I think we would want to see that continued in this development as well for whatever is ends up being built on the west side of it so it's all connected and and on the same side of the road so we are yes we don't have PES where people have to cross yes y unnecessarily do we want to propose a trail that goes north north at all we talked about that with the are we far enough on that side of the shooting range now to go north yeah yeah I don't know cuz that's just north of that right last I think is like over here oh it's still up over that okay we're quite a ways from that I don't think that's right Jenna I thought it was just north of the development we looked at last time yeah it's right yeah I think those lines are the shooting where all the I think the woods are right here right in here I think it's just north of that yeah yeah is there any Master planning as far as roads that will go north and south that we know of not that I know of that might be a question for um Planning Commission yeah I think I think that would be an important question because if there's a road that goes there's going to be a main artery that goes north and south there we'd also want to have a trail along that yeah uh if there isn't going to be um then it probably doesn't matter well I also if angler is redeveloped and if there are trails along angler then I imagine that would be kind of how people cross the train tracks so we might want a connection out of this neighborhood to angler a trail connection yeah good point yeah that's a good point it's it's hard when the it's kind of comes peace when it's peace meal and everybody each developer developer comes with their own thing because they're just thinking about their development and um yes we're trying to connect it to together so there's enough people looking at this between us and the Planning Commission and the city council but hopefully we all keep an eye on the bigger picture as to what the future is going to look like and not just one one little aspect of it that might make sense now but wouldn't make any sense with development around it so I guess that could go in a recommendation that um to the Planning Commission is just a comment about you know Master planning if there's going to be any North Main North South artery in there that goes through that development uh or connects it at development then we might want to consider Trails uh going north and south as well in addition to the creek side and we talked about sidewalks according to to uh what the current ordinances are and I mean Jenna do you think we would get an opportunity at Park and wreck or would it be a at will these come back to us or no for final review no they never will they'll go to city council they all go to city council so this is the opportunity for us to provide feedback yeah course sure we're all welcome to show up at the city council yeah yes talk about it then too yeah I just I just again when we keep looking at these and again they're being proposed by different developers I keep thinking like well how do we ensure that there's like consistency from one developer to the next when they're connect like they are they are right next to each other right so uh a resident isn't going to understand like oh why why would my town homes have sidewalks on both sides but the next development over my town homes only have sidewalks on one side so I don't know how city council could do that but inure that there's a [Music] consistent see between them because I would hate for for you know us to have said okay in one instance okay we can suffice with sidewalks on one side right and then the next one do to it's almost like well no then if they're both coming at the same time both should have the same re have to go to a city council meeting I think if the density rule applies the council needs to apply it equally amongst all developments and hopefully they are yeah you know and if they are then then there's no kind of there's no argument the density rule if that applies to this development then and then it has to it is what it is okay okay I do think the train tracks are kind of a concern for both of these how Trails would cross the train tracks is something I'm curious about and where's the train track on this the diagonal I think it's right between those two it's the diagonal line that's I'll point below Marsh Hollow park diagonal oh this I see okay yeah so if you wanted to get to the quick trip from or you know from here from the purple box you have to cross the train tracks y currently yeah but if the Creekside has a trail that will go out to Victor connects out onto Victoria Drive and they have access on a trail if there's a trail there yeah yeah yeah yeah train tracks are always not in the most ideal spots they were there a long time ago it looked great back went through the 75 years ago or 100 years ago well yeah now I mean we had trolley car train tracks all over the place too that we're now replacing with light rail we turned those into bike trails now we're building new tracks it all comes F Circle doesn't it other thoughts or suggestions that we'd like to pass along and I presume this is a council that's just a question I might be behind but currently guided is low and medium density residential is was that a Planning Commission recommendation or can you say that one more time I couldn't you oh the low and middle density housing it's in the in the uh proposed layout currently guided as low and medium density residential is that a planning commit designation or how does that there's a that's a very high density neighborhood where are you referring to um it's on here in the Agenda Report um it was um that was a discussion with the Planning Commission okay yeah sorry I didn't mean to throw you Loop there okay so let's for review again Trail on Creek Side that matches up on the same side of the road as the other development um recommending sidewalks that meet current ordinance uh area a trail that would connect uh on a potential Trail on angler from this development and then um asking the Planning Commission city council to if they have a master plan and there's going to be a main road that's going to go north and south through this area that to consider a trail on that as well and then we also already talked about the park thing so this is just the trails and sidewalks anything else that somebody would like to add or did I state that properly good okay so we're we have a consensus okay I don't think we we don't need to vote on this just Jenna can write it up and share with the Planning Commission and the city council abolutely any other thoughts comments questions concerns were you looking for you had a question about amenities on slide Jenna did were were you looking for just uh if there's any other neighborhood and amenities that you want to be considered for this area other than the parking okay what would an example of that be that's open-ended um this isn't a time to discuss like what would be in a park because we don't know what that would be um we would do engagement closer to the piece but if there's anything else that you can think of I mean I've said this before that I think we need more just natural areas Within These highd density area like we don't have to mow fence post to fence post and there needs to be more just land set aside for just natural Green Space I think that as the city of parks and lakes that's important and that's what what Drew us out here was that it wasn't one development after another with square blocks of suburban sprawl as far as you can see right we want to I think that's what draws people to this area and we want to I want to keep that in mind as we can because as you asked is there another Development coming absolutely it's just a matter of when you know um and we want to make sure that I I want to make sure that we still have that feel out here that it's not just square blocks after square blocks of homes as far as you can see so can you go back to the picture of the um site layout for this development specifically because they so they own the land along cha Creek there then too right it's part of of their space I'm not as familiar with this land as you are I'm not sure where you're referring to well so chesa Creek is in the top the very North End of the okay behind the the Red Blocks and those blue lines yeah so chasa Creek so uh um I think with with uh point on Green Space I don't know what it's like back there because I couldn't physically get back there but is there an opportunity for like a trail back there or a boardwalk back there like I'm guessing something that benefits residence right cuz right now this just benefits the developer what I'm guessing is any P piece of buildable land within this right now has a lot plotted out so anything that's not is we going to become green space because it's not buildable my point is can we have we need green space that's not just unbuildable property or property that's within a not a I wouldn't call it a flood plane but like where there's potential water running something like that I think we just need to be aware of having some just natural Green Space areas not clear cutting every tree that's on the property and you know regrading it great so back to another question on the on the top here the the line that goes from the left side up to the top I was wondering about that yeah what is that those white lines that yeah is that a retaining wall is that a uh utility lines um I'm honestly not sure yeah I think it's a suggestion of a for a future Road maybe yeah that could be oh yeah because that's posible because of the bottom what it says down here oh yeah there you go but I will say keep it keep in mind if if they're proposing that on another land they can't make that guarantee so do you know if this how this density compares to like the marsh Hollow or Hunters book not without looking it up this just just in looking at it this looks a lot more dense than some of the other developments we've looked at absolutely I think there's more units and and more there's more town own homes but there's more individual Lots here and it seem like it's this does seem more like a urban or suburban sprawl than some of the other ones and part of it may be there's some of the other ones had wetlands and other things that kind of broke them up this may not part of the natural landscape of this area lends itself to not having square blocks for Miles right we that's a that's a good thing um but some of it doesn't and I think we still need to be aware of trying to set aside some property just okay anything else for Jenna if not I think that was it for the agenda anybody have anything else if not a motions in order to adjourn to a journ all right okay motion's been made and second it all those in favor say I we are adjourned thanks Jenna for