name [Music] oh [Music] oh [Music] [Music] oh [Music] he [Music] he hey [Music] hey hey he [Music] welcome to the vucha County council meeting the meeting will begin in 10 minutes [Music] he [Music] okay [Music] [Applause] [Music] a [Music] [Music] w [Music] w [Music] w he [Music] a [Music] [Music] [Music] welcome to the vucha County council meeting the meeting will begin in 5 minutes [Music] [Music] now [Music] you [Music] w [Music] know up [Music] welcome to the vucha County council meeting the meeting will begin in 2 minutes [Music] [Music] guys [Music] if everybody could find a seat we will start in 60 Seconds [Music] [Music] good morning we will call the May 7th 2024 County council meeting to order at 9 9 a.m. um just to give you some information of how we will start um in just a moment I'll ask you to stand if if you care to for the invocation and then for the uh Pledge of Allegiance and um this morning for the invocation um we have Rabbi Paul Faulk of the Ariel congregation in Orange City um so so Rabbi why don't you come first and then we'll do the Pledge of Allegiance as soon as you're done stand let's stand Masia King Redeemer Savior and shield father we come before you um we begin this day just giving thanks to you for the blessings that you have poured down on us um we thank you for the ability to live in a place of Freedom um a place that we can enjoy um and seek out happiness seek out those freedoms that are so bountifully given to us we thank you for the blessing of living in this place with so many pieces of creation that are such a blessing to us day after day um we lift up all those in the cross PRS of the struggles that are happening in the world we lift them to your hands at this point and what's all that's going on there we lift up those in front of us um that have come to stand and to serve in this community um to be protectors um overseers of the resources that you have so bountifully blessed us with um we lift them up um we ask that you give them wisdom um and the strength to go forward um with what's best and guidance in regard to the decisions the hard ones that need to be made um again we bless you and we bless them too father um for the incredible role and responsibility they've taken on and um we just give you glory amen and amen I pledge aliance to the of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation one God indivisible for in justice for all thank you nice to see you just so you know I usually uh say this first um it was it seemed very uh time appropriate to have the rabbi here this morning there's a lot going on in the world and I was able to speak to him a little bit before the meeting and he uh assured me that his congregation feels safe and that's that says something about valua County and we will pray that that continues and I just thank you again for coming the invocation is open to all Faith groups in Valia County if your faith group would like to participate just send an email to k the letter K green ata.org and uh Carissa will um get you all set up to do it and uh we appreciate the uh the participation okay uh would you call the role Please Mr Kent here Mr Reinhardt here Mr Robbins Mr Santiago here Mr Dempsey here Mr Johansson here Mr Brower here thank you do we have public participation I don't have any yet but before while we're waiting on that to be walked over um without calling undo attention to it I would um okay thank you Don I hope you don't mind this I wanted to let everybody know that um you lost a your mother last week one of the hardest things to uh to go through is losing a mother or father um thankfully not a child and U just wanted to let you know that we appreciate you being here today and you are in our prayers okay uh I will call your names as they were uh turned in in order you will have three minutes to come up to the podium please make sure that the uh microphone is right in your face so that everybody can hear you and it can be recorded for all times so keep that in mind as you speak you will have three minutes and at the end of there there is a monitor on the over on the there there is a clock 3 minute clock on your monitor and in the overhead large screens so um please keep track of your time um uh first we will begin with Paul Richardson and if you would as you come up tell us what part of the county that you're from so your representative knows uh where you are morning Council my name is Paul Richardson of the land I have two things to say today I once came here to speak out against the thoroughly unamerican ESG after the last hurricane came through well it looks like the State of Florida her me and other citizens from the from the Florida voice article uh Governor Ronda senta signed legislation on Thursday protecting businesses from financial institutions that promote environmental social and corporate government policies also known as ESG the legislation HB 989 expands consumer protections and amend certain roles and responsibility of the of the state's Chief Financial Officer unquote this is great uh I will leave you to read the details of HB 989 for brevity honestly ESG has something to do with environmental issues and that's why I only use the acrm I also hope that you consider a resolution also warning about the dangers of ESG to businesses in bla County on a similar note uh fot has finally is finally doing something useful quote from the um article uh local Rissa County's Nova Canal is getting a major makeover from the state right now Florida's Department of Transportation crews are working on a 7.5 Mile Stretch that runs through Holley Hill Port Orange and Daytona Beach unquote this is a great start from the article they are expanding and deepening the canel as well as cleaning it up rusa county has been crying out for something like this for some time now I look forward to seeing fot service canals in West bla County as well if that would help with the funing here God blessa County God Bless America and her interal Ally Israel thank you uh Felicia benzo I didn't see you she must have been here to turn this in okay hold it to the uh jerich shalani I'm a little nervous um good morning my name is Jerica shaani and I live at 2093 Halifax Drive I'm a third generation living on tamoka Farms Road and I have a lot invested in my home my town and my little slice of country that I have my home where I'm raising my two and 5-year-old are a half a mile away which is 2,640 Ft from the proposed Motocross site for reference that distance is from the Cracker Barrel on International to the speedway I will be a full-time homeschooling mom with my two kids in August for their school career their primary place to focus and learn will be at our home um the amount of noise that a few hundred people's 40 plus bikes every single day would really just change our lives um we know that this entails much more than just a 4-Hour race window this is starting bikes and all um sorry guys um flooding is a huge issue out where we're at um we've been out there for over 14 years been on Halifax for four years and have had some pretty devastating flooding that needs to be addressed before any of this stuff comes to play in our front yard and in our backyard during an interview with the news journal Don Dempsey described and I quote we are now a destination State a lot of families come from New York you know North up north wanting a place to ride and they have nowhere to go so I think fuchia is more than ripe for a facility that will allow this this is no longer about our neighbors this is about other people not the residents who reside here and have been for a long time this again sounds like a wonderful idea I think this is something that we should have my kids are going to be the first people to ride with their dirt bikes but it should not be in our backyard um my question to you is why is there no other proposed site in the beautiful valua County such as Barberville Dillion Springs Deltona Dand Emporia Lake Helen Orange City Pearson Aster why not again I leave you with this when I met Don Dempsey at the open house on April 23rd I asked him would you want this in your backyard he said no this speaks volumes for someone's kids who rode he knows what this entails this is going to be devastating for our country life our peace everything that we worked so hard for we were told to get a career buy a home buy land be in country and all I ask is that you guys really think about this motocross track that I really want for my kids just in another location if you guys could really please think about this for my sanity to homeschool my children for the beautiful valua County that I want to stay in sorry thank you John chiani good morning I'm not as prepared as my wife but I want to talk about uh the motocross track track going in there's a back in 2009 there was a B21 watershed management proposal plan that was supposed to be going on with the all the issues with the flooding after the towns west went in we were that used to be all percolating land for us out there I've been out there almost 20 years now and I'm just uh wondering why this is come up now to put this in our backyard when we haven't even figured out the flooding syst situation so I'm just you know we went out we we moved out there for a reason we pay a lot of tax dollars a lot of insurances that is extra for land and you know we uh went out there for peace and quiet and if this goes in it's going to be not only the noise but now the flooding issues that's main concern for me other than the noise is going to be we're already inches away from destroying house and when we just get a big rainstorm and I have neighbors that been out there 50 years and they've never seen water on their driveway but the last 15 years it's been just getting more and more going on so that's uh that's what I got to say I think uh we got other people that are going to talk and appreciate it thank you thank [Applause] you Judy Campbell is there more than one Judy Campbell okay so it's not Judy Campbell is Trisha penti yes okay good morning my name is Trisha penti I live on Halifax Drive in Port Orange um one of the concerns that not against the Motocross project nobody is we're just against the location of it due to the fact that it's in very close proximity to Halifax Drive and the neighboring homes the feasibility study does not mention the close proximity of Halifax Drive and we're wondering why it doesn't mention it the other thing it doesn't mention is watershed where is all this water going once the project is in and complete if it does go on that proposed site off of shuns Road Halifax drive has a tendency to flood we ourselves receive 6 Ines of water in our building everything in our building was destroyed the insurance companies are leaving the State of Florida due to the fact of the amount of damage that the current storms are causing and they're also limiting on what they're paying and they're putting a lot of that cost on the homeowners so what is going to happen if there's increased flooding on Halifax Drive and the insurance companies don't want to pay who's going to f at that bill it's very expensive to live there I myself pay nearly $122,000 in taxes to live there the noise pollution we are approximately 6.6 miles away from the NASCAR track and we can hear every every race that goes on we are 7.8 miles away from the new SMA Beach track and we can hear all of that all of those races I'm sorry am I interrupting okay thank you so we're 7.8 miles away from the new smna beach this particular track is going to be less than a quar mile away from my front door how is the sound barrier going to help we can hear all the traffic on 95 so how are creating burms going to help prevent the noise pollution and then we have the issue of Lights there's going to be light pollution with all the lights that needed that are needed for the 50 RV spots that you're proposing in addition to All In addition to the three tracks that you're proposing soil we're concerned about um soil erosion and conserving the soil where is all that soil coming from to keep the track maintained where is that going to come from the city of Port Orange has all their Wells on there how are you going to prevent leakage from gas and oil contaminants going into the ground and preventing from getting to all the Wells on for the city of Port Orange none of that is addressed in the feasibility study and why is that the other concern is I have a neighbor who lives approximately you're out of you're out of time okay great I'm sorry that's fine thank you good job thank thank [Applause] you so Judy Campbell is not speaking I have a card for you so good morning Council good morning my name is Judy Campbell and I am a resident of of U to Farms Village and I am concerned about the motocross track again not against Motocross I am against having a commercial uh facility in my backyard uh I think that we do before this would be voted on in this location our hope is that you will do the feasibility study to see about the Watershed to see about the how a parking lot that is backed up onto the property at Halifax how the lighting will affect the uh residents there uh we have uh many concerns we have retained an attorney uh Dennis bear and um we had uh he unfortunately was unable to be here today but uh we hope that the county will do more studies you can certainly uh believe that we will be conducting our studies too to see about the feasibility thank you thank [Applause] you Elana craft good morning my name is Elena Craft um I am here to just shed some light on your double standards five of you were so worried about being sued by badier for imposing a legal heavy industrial moratorium that you betrayed a whole community of people and voted against this much needed measure I want to believe that your concern about the financial liability was sincere but it's really hard to when the same group of five are now pushing for a 10 million publicly funded Motocross facility which comes with a much greater financial burden and future liability I am here not because I'm against Motocross facilities as has been mentioned in fact I believe having a privately funded one in valusa County away from homes would be a wonderful addition to this area I have good friends who love this sport I'm here because I really don't like double standards so please Don't Close Your Eyes to the following legal risks associated with government funded Motocross facilities lawsuits alleging negligence if a writer or spectator is injured due to unsafe track conditions inadequate maintenance or for not enforcing safety rules lawsuits related to injuries caused by hazards on the property such as improperly maintained jumps or obstacles lawsuits related to negligence supervision or inadequate instructions lawsuits by en environmental groups or concerned citizens alleging that government funded Motocross facility is causing environmental harm such as soil erosion water pollution or disturbance of Wildlife and lawsuits by neighbors such as the ones who spoke living near Motocross facilities alleging that noise levels exceed local ordinances or zoning regulations you see everything comes at a cost it's just a matter of priorities with the way you've handled these two issues the fuel terminal and the Motocross facility you've clearly shown us where your priorities lie you've shown us that you don't really care about the fact that you're causing thousands of people young and old daily distress by closing your eyes to the dangers associated with an open-ended heavy Industrial District close to homes it's been almost 90 days yes we're counting since the infamous February 6th moratorium vote and what have you done in these 90 days to fix the negligent open-ended heavy industrial district absolutely nothing nothing whatsoever in fact you didn't even bat an eye when Mr Santiago cancelled the zoning workshop at the 11th hour with no explanation whatsoever as to what was so important that a critical Workshop that had been in the books for months was now cancelled your actions speak louder than words and the people of alusia are listening so in conclusion please do your job and fix the heavy industrial district in vucha County thank you John Nicholson Johnson beat side uh a couple of things one driving here I pass over a bridge right next to 5 on ISB at what point is that on our schedule uh I went through this with our city there was a bridge on LPGA that caused massive traffic jams because I knew uh barville was going in Mosaic was going in once the traffic goes in any repair or any change is going to make even more massive backups well guess what I told you that the last land on ISB I at uh lpj was going to be developed up soon it's coming down they've gone through everything it has to be approved with two votes on the city commission and they're building on ISB and lpj uh there's four projects going in a fifth one is being discussed today with regard to the uh Motocross there's a lot going in on smoka Farms Road we have to address that as well um regarding Motocross you've got, 1600 Acres there why does this facility have to be built right across from the only residence of those 1600 Acres I mean it doesn't make sense I understand that they were looking at a location and it's high but I went out for the meeting and God it was packed lot of residents opposed it okay when I drove in I looked to the right where I would like to have it because there's no residence there's one like 3/4 of a mile down the road one there's dozens across the street from this location I was told you can't because it's swamp land well it's all full of pine trees I've never seen a swamp full of pine trees so I'm guessing that would be a better location than this one right across from a bunch of residents affordable housing you're going to hear that all right I'm asking you at this point to uh look at your affordable housing tell the public cuz I I really haven't heard where the need is because when I talk to some it's well it's for senior citizens a lot of them they came before you saying they were in a trailer park rent was so high they're kicked out firststep shelter says they've got 14 they've been kicked out at trailer parks they're senior citizens at this point in their life well to me that's an issue all right secondly what do you do with the kids that um well age out of uh foster care there's a little thing youve got it uh uh the old former marks or whatever it is facility but where do they go you don't want to put them in a bad situation you want to give them the most help you can so there you got to find out tell us where the need is because apparently you're doing really well on affordable housing but the question is are we doing enough in the right location the right need and I'll see you at the end of the meeting bye Christian Brown good morning council members I am not speaking to a line item this morning but I appreciate you giving me three minutes to speak I live in Deltona I've been in Deltona for about 30 years now and I'm here to represent Catalyst Global youth initiatives it is a nonprofit that has been active for about 14 years now um active with Youth Empowerment we've had mentors in vucha County schools for over 10 years and we've had summer programs off for our youth here in Valia County for about the last 10 years you may be familiar with the yeti grant that was being administered through Career Source um here in vucha County it was allowing our high schoolers between ages and 15 to be in professional development and career development programs well that Grant has since dropped right up um Career Source is no longer facilitating that um it's gone to another area outside of our County so I'm here to represent the interns that were active for the last four years in that program I've had the privilege of being able to be the facilitator for the professional development program for about three um this would be the fourth for myself we um are out of funding and we're here today to request funding from the County Council no programs such as this exist in high schools throughout Valia County this is an opportunity for our young people to be trained with Real World skills that they need in order to be successful in the Work World in the job World those that might not be College Bound and not all of our youth are College Bound those that need these types of skills learning how to interview learning how to have a cover letter and a resume learning how to dress professionally um during an interview learning how to carry yourself properly when you are actually hired and employed these are very useful skills that unfortunately when they graduate from high school they're without and it's impeding their progress these individuals are future constituents and also future taxpayers they'll be future homeowners what we're asking for is the county to invest in our youth so that they'll have a Fighting Chance once they get out of high school so that they'll be able to be prepared to get the career positions that they have especially again those that might not be College Bound you know this will assist them with getting vocational um positions getting Council County jobs city jobs you know not just here in the the land area Deltona orang City Daytona Beach um Catalyst was handling four different cities and on average we were helping oh thank you thank you sir good job Amanda Balboa you weren't Towing me were you no not yet my name is Amanda baloa I'm with Aeros service and towing I am also the vice president of the Sunshine State Towing Association uh the towing Community was present about two weeks ago in an attempt to get on the agenda in regards to a rate increase for non-consensual towing in the county of Valia uh we appreciate your time again then and now uh there was in the closing comments a few statements we felt could use some clarification uh it was mentioned that we were referencing trespass Towing uh which would be the private property Towing uh that's actually not what we're referring to we do not do that kind of Towing we're referring to the police sanction Towing so DUIs accidents arrest Sease tags Etc uh it was stated that the contracts go out for competitive bid which they do however the only rates that change are the rates that we pay each individual municipality as a towing company the public rates have not changed since October of 20 too uh we were also for some reason compared to Miami dat and Broward counties which we are not close in proximity or in population but since we are being compared to them I provided the rates um to the young ladies this morning for your reference I also included Palm Beach County as well they do charge a significantly higher amount than us so I'm not sure where the numbers derived that we were in line because we are not um if we're comparing them Broward County Sheriff's Department toes 50 to 65 vehicles per day uh my zone in valua County toes about 12 to 14 per month so there's a significant difference of course uh the caveat is is that here in vucha County I still have to keep people on payroll 247 hell high water hurricane holiday it doesn't matter we have to respond within 20 minutes so um I still have to pay people on payroll of course that comes out of the profit uh that what we would be charged so um you know it's 2024 people aren't working for free of course and you're not paying the same for a gallon of milk that you did 25 years ago so we're just asking that the dialogue gets opened up um willing to communicate in any way or be a liaison in any way possible a meeting email phone however we need to get it done we just need to get it on the agenda please thank you thank you Wayan n good morning everyone good morning my name is Wayan nce Dand Florida vice president of the Dand and West Val uh greater West valua Chamber of Commerce the chairman of the volish county affordable housing advisory committee past president of our wonderful Main Street D land and the president of many other organizations uh in the community little context before I go uh I also want to state that I do uh believe in capitalism um before we get into this this I'm going to read as opposed to just speaking if we do not as a county and a community take Serious action regarding housing and its affordability including the incentives for the development of affordable housing we will continue to see a rise in homelessness and households becoming unstable this will affect our taxes overall as it will affect the health care System the transportation system the education system the private sector and more we will see continued increase in substance abuse and related deaths not to mention the emotional mental health aspects that come with instability due to the rising cost of housing and instability of homelessness in our area according to the Alice report which stands for asset limited income constrained employed so basically the Working Poor and this does not take into consideration unemployment rates which would actually drive the numbers up about another 7 to 10% in our local community in 2007 the report showed that Bela County had a 36.2% poverty rate threshold we are currently at 46% threshold with a median income of $50,000 the economy and the market have not corrected themselves for almost 20 years our large politicians they're not going to change this while it is the responsibility and moral duty of our government overall at large but it is especially the responsibility of our local government to act for those in need in our community equitably not equally the rising cost of insurance healthc care daycare groceries Market rates for all housing and more are forcing people out of their units into a state of chaos again the market has not corrected itself in nearly 20 years when will we take action our Statute of Liberty States give me your tired your poor your huddled masses yearning to breathe free The Wretched refuse of your teeming Shore send these the homeless temp toss to me I lift my lamp beside the golden door this is the American way we do not we can do this but it takes compassion dedication and yes it even takes compromise we are responsible this Council to make Community healthy holistic anded Elizabeth pompy pardon me Elizabeth is it Pompei pompy I thought that's what I said I'm not as prepared as some of the others but I do have a passion for what I want to speak about today um I'm Elizabeth pumpy I live at 1891 Halifax Drive District 2 um I am here about the Motocross um we are all exacerbated about the proposal for this we I've called multiple times about the flooding we already have in our area I have spoke to you one time at a meeting about the flooding in our area and this is just going to compounded um there are a couple things I have a question about um back in 2009 there was a local plan in place for the tamoka Farms Village that protected our agricultural environment is that still in place and does that does this Motocross fall into that plan I don't think so I think it's going to be detrimental to our our way of living um um so a question about about the local plan uh somebody mentioned something about the feasibility why are we even going to spend any more money on this this should not happen in our backyard and um I have um if if we hadn't been a a close unit in our neighbor in our area I would have never known about the open house that happened over there at the Landfield where more than 200 people showed up some were Motocross people but most of them were not from Valia Valia County that were we are I I haven't met anybody that that's for it in our area and like other people say yes there there needs to be an environment somebody has told me that Florida Cracker Ranch down in bonell has Motocross so why do we have to build one here I'm not opposed to the BMX that's happening in in and that you guys do have on the agenda today and I understand that the motorcross came through on the back skirts of this BMX proposal um they don't have a bunch of of noise going on for the BMX um the noise the flooding flooding flooding is our biggest issue and as somebody else spoke we have le learned that that place was purchased by valua County years ago for Watershed and I don't understand why we're not making a full do something with our money to make that area uh take care of the flooding in our in our vicinity and and and there's going to be more there's that that growth that's getting getting ready to be built down on the end of tamoka Farms Road at I4 that's going to have hundreds of Acres developed and um so anyway flooding flooding flooding and the noise I uh give my objection here to this proposal for the Motocross whenever it comes up it is very difficult to find out on your agendas when something's going to happen as the one lady said we do have an attorney and he was told it wasn't on the agenda and then on Friday he was said oh yes it is but yet now here it is it's not very difficult to find out when we can come and give our voice on such a thing when you were actually voting on it um one other thing want to bring up the apartments that are being talked about thank you Felicia benzo I saw you come in we come here and ask you as the adults in the community as I am to support our youth in their journey to adulthood we did do the three years that Mr Brown was talking about with the support of the Yeti funds that is not available anymore and I just don't understand as a community why we don't see it import important enough that during the summer we have these young people occupied and productive activities so what we did over the past three years is exactly what Mr Brown said these young people have graduated from high school some of them are working for the hospitals some of them are in the C colleges some of them are in the military and some of them are in the trades programs as well come on guys we've got to do better give them something to do do during the summer with supervision they weren't shadowing anybody they were actually working for your hospitals for this County as well for the food distribution programs these kids were active if you don't give them something to do they're going to find something to do in fact the Predators are going to find them and give them something to do you know what a predator is right all right so I don't want that so what I'm saying to you is help us this summer have the funds to support 33 youth as we have done the past three years I actually have to documents there I'm so sorry I was late but voten uh was late to pick up my mom so I'm doing the best I can please I need your help to do this it's not a lot of money and I have it in that folder that I had left back there help us we can still put the program together for the summer and have these kids active thank you thank you uh Michelle uter good morning everyone I know we talk about a lot of things and I'm probably the last person you want to see stand before you but we talk about improving our C our County and things like that but we also forget about people that are being hurt from mandates working at hospitals or being in the military we took this we did we abided by our government and we took this vaccine from it I have chronic inflammation dilation poly neuropathy I have cardio issues vascular issues this past year I got worse and I have microc clotting in cast and more this year I worked I was on disability I'm waiting for Social Security disability and Advent decided to terminate me so now the infusions that I take that cost $155,000 a month because I having an autoimmune issue and it helps me do my everyday living it is now taken away from me I'm over a month overdue and I'm still trying to find insurance and things like that but people that have lived a good life have worked and served in the community because I'm seven generations here in fuchia County we are told that we need to get on food stamps that we need to get on Medicaid but our injuries are real you won't see us on the news you won't see us on the social media because we're censored by the government and nobody wants to hear us I stand out in public and speak and I'm also told that people don't listen listen to me on the board because all I do is yell I don't yell I'm asking for help not just for me but for other people there's people there's another person in Valia County Lindsay that we both served on Governor D santis Round Table along with lpo we've spoken many times but they have cut off information cut off communication with us were we use as political props I don't know but we deserve more we should be H be able to have our disabilities turned in quickly we should be on Medicare Advent also has um a long covid where they study them and help them but they don't help me I called and because I'm vaccine injured they refuse to treat me I have to go to Alabama I have to go two hours away to see doctor because no one will treat me how do you think that I feel I'm not yelling at anyone I'm not asking for just help for me but for others their only people that help us are react 19. Gord which their our nonprofit organization um there's also real reactions in the Hope House Hope For Humanity because they're working on things to help give free treatment but until then we have no resources I'm asking for your help and find other ways so we don't have to end up being on the street thank you thank you [Applause] Michelle okay that ends the uh public comment for this part of the uh meeting Mr chairman just point of personal privilege yes councilman Santiago um I know sometimes you uh mentioned to the audience that we typically don't resp Bond if you can address that that way people know that we're just not ignoring them yeah it's very uncomfortable sometimes sitting up here and listening to these sometimes very personal issues and and all the important issues that you bring up and then you look at us and we don't say a word and you think ah what a bunch of dards that they're you know they don't care about us it's a rule that was established um for the council for mostly for time to get people as many people in here to speak as possible and we don't respond to you or it could go on you know all day just with that one last issue there's a lot there but your needs are dealt with often time before you leave this room one of the county staff will Corral you and get the information they need but I guarantee that um uh like can't guarantee for everybody but pretty sure that each of these council members when they hear something in their District they will reach out to you themselves on the which is why we have these with your email and phone numbers so please don't think that you're being ignored um you're not do you have anything else you'd like to add Mr sanago no Mr just you know sometimes we address these things also in Council comments at the end of the meeting which I intend to a couple items okay so stay till 11 hopefully it won't be that late so uh thank you um I'm really not allowed to call on people in the in the public you you can fill out a form to speak I'm sorry what was your name Mr tamaine I believe that you were speaking on agenda item five is what your form says okay yeah what I have your card but it it said item uh you wanted to wait till item five um if you don't want to wait for item five we can you did or didn't I to okay how about if I call you then well okay it says item five at the top maybe St wrote it so I I apologize I'm really not arguing with you would you like to speak right now okay please come up Eric to tamman tamman in Port Orange yes I live on Avocado Drive um and everybody has mentioned most of the things that I wanted to say um flooding um probably has to be our number one uh issue I'm not opposed to Motocross for kids to have a place to go but it shouldn't be in an right close to a neighborhood where we are um noise is going to be a problem big problem when we sit in our backyards it's very quiet that's going to go away um traffic we're going to have increased traffic do anybody you know when the Daytona 500 is in town it's you know 4:15 is two lanes so we're going to increase traffic we're going to not be able to get to 92 I mean it's it's going to be a nightmare um and not to mention you know we did a lot of studies what is it going to do to all of the values of our homes I moved out of Broward County four years ago to have peace and quiet I'm not going to be able to sell my house selling peace and quiet that's what I have to say please don't approve this thank you and that brings us to uh item one thank you all that participated in the in the uh public participation period item one is a consent agenda does any council member have an item they would like to pull for comment or a vote uh I just want H for discussion I do not want to pull it I just want to have discussion on the economic development stuff okay and I would like to pull why just for just for discussion and um question chairman at this time I'll make a motion to approve the consent agenda item as proposed by staff second motion to to approve the entire agenda as proposed by staff from Troy Kent second by David Santiago Mr Brower you do have a public comment for for item L and for item l and who is that I don't know his name but it's this gentleman right here Jackie mole thank you how could I forget you how can you thank you and this is for you want to speak to item L yes want to speak to item L and um representing faith and support and encouraging you to Jackie Mo red sag drive and port on Orange um I'm here representing Faith by encouraging you to vote Yes on the agenda item cons uh project under construction that is a $7.8 million faith is so excited to see our County investing projects like these that are bringing in matching funds from private investment and federal dollars our $7.8 million investment will leverage an amazing in return on our investment faith has been pushing the County Council to invest in more affordable housing and we are grateful to see the county moving forward on projects such as this thank you for your leadership in our community as taxpayers in valua County we believe in this project and see it as a good investment of our tax dollars please support the staff proposal for more affordable housing and thank you for the opportunity to speak thank you sir uh councilman Jake Johansson yes sir I I I believe I just want to clarify for uh the public that this isn't particularly uh the the agenda item where we discuss the $7.8 million uh uh Gap funding uh but in fact uh just a a construction of a previously uh approved uh um uh financing of um rehabilitation services and Community Assistance that that's correct but your information stands and is well taken we understand your support uh so let's have the vote on the consent agenda it was the motion was to approve it as presented um all in favor say I I any opposed and the motion carries 7 to zero um if we would could have someone uh come speak to item H or did you have a question you wanted to propose first uh staff okay thank you Mr chair good morning Mr chair gentleman of the council Cyrus Callum Aviation and economic resources good to see you all again hey Cyrus thank you very much I think I think last time this was on the agenda I think I did a similar uh pull for discussion um but thanks for the update um it's nice to see um the the Trends on how the state's doing how the uh nationally we're doing and and how uh It Gos down into the local level in our cities and in and including the county and corporate areas I wanted to to talk about and and if we can propose and for the council also is I want to focus in on wages in our County um seems like we're kind of maybe in the middle of the pack Statewide I'm gener speaking generally um but I'd like to see if we could have discussions in the future or guidance from staff as to what targeted Industries um that we could look at um that we can raise the wages in vucha County um I think that that should be a focus of ours um and I see that I think there's a pretty big gap between us and seminal true um and is do you feel that I I see a lot of construction happening in the areas do you let me ask you this question do you feel that um there are opportunities out there um for us to raise the average wage in vucha County absolutely absolutely in the Aerospace industry which is something that I've been working very closely with Team valua also the CEO business Alliance as well as staff with valua County we're really looking at ways to kind of close the gap of course our neighbors to the South they kind of have a strangle hold on that and we've been getting some inquiries from some businesses that want to kind of spread their footprint and look at opportunities to develop in our County so yes we've definitely been seeking opportunities to increase wages that way and you know we have our partners of course Embry riddle who has been phenomenal with bringing a spotlight on you know that type of Industry as well so definitely that's been something we've been working on hopefully uh in the short term we'll start to see some businesses with that Focus come into our community I I want to add the idea again this just popped into my head now that um Southern I guess Southeast volia county has the greatest opportunity to to benefit from those high paying Aeros space jobs absolutely um we have the project down there that very large project that's happening down there farmton which is mostly a community but I wonder if there's opportunities to explore um with that development um commercial opportunities on the southernmost point of that to try to attract some of those those jobs or manufacturing whatever it is in that southern point so I mean I don't know if if there's anybody in the council that doesn't like that idea maybe chime in but um I think we have huge opportunities over there and you know farmton I think has been a good partner in responding to the county and in different inquiries and maybe that's one um but we got to go after it and think uh outside the box I I'll I'll tell you another conversation I've been having conversations with space Florida as well about that very situation um we're trying to be a lot more intentional instead of having businesses come to us actually do a little bit more of an Outreach to let them know that we do have and we want to be in the game in terms of bringing that type of Industry here so the discussions are being had and I think uh and sooner than later we'll start to see some results start to pan out we do have land at the airport that is uh on the verge of being shovel ready and so that's going to help significantly but definitely in southeast vucha uh as we start to reach out to industries that may be outgrowing what they're doing in our neighbors to the South there might be some prime opportunity for us to take advantage and two more uh questions um I think I asked this one last time also on the unemployment rate I noticed that we're just slightly above uh the average by 0.2 I think whatever I think your answer last time had to do with um um new entrance into vucha County is that still the trend that's driving that that is still the case so uh there's a slide in the presentation and the actual cue is going to take place on the 17th of this month uh our new economic development director Luke parish is going to take the HM away from me and present the information for you so uh you all will be uh if you haven't uh made your reservations to attend um I would encourage you to do so there's some good information in the report as a whole our available labor force is has never been higher uh which is great um the unemployment rate is inching up ever so slightly but the available labor force is due to that net migration people are still moving into Valia County they're still moving into the State of Florida as well so we're we're all benefiting from that influx people my last question I know it's not in your presentation but I also asked this one can you tell me a brief update on avello airlines I read a lot of what's happening in the news how is that benefiting vucha County and what are the results some of so far oh uh I am pleased to report aelo Airlines has added another flight into our Market um so they're doing a Monday Wednesday Friday uh opportunity their loads have been phenomenal uh well over 85% and so uh actually had staff do another uh economic impact uh report on on how that's been helping our community and I I'll come back with those numbers uh for specifics but uh they are doing very very strongly uh as a matter of fact um there's some discussion about potentially having Wilmington Delaware come back but I do want to be cautious about that because there are some other markets that we're looking at in the Northeast that I would like to see that I feel would probably generate a little bit more of a higher yield and a higher low factor and that's going to benefit us as a whole so when you come back with that update can you please include um whether or not they've tapped into the funds that we've allotted for them absolutely absolutely um I know for the Wilmington Market uh uh they they did tap into the funds for the New Haven Market there have been months where they've actually given us money back so it be nice to see that update absolutely thank you thank you Mr chairman you're welcome before you leave I'm not sure if either of these questions are for you but uh councilman Johan real quick I guess I'll ask you as a question um you know David mentioned uh raising the average wage and we talked a lot about bringing things in um uh article recently in the news about Embry Riddle UCF and hypersonics uh that hypersonics just sounds increased wage to me yes um uh Daytona State uh uh uh pivoting to respond to Workforce Development at the ATC building buildings out west for nursing and and law enforcement and so I I believe our our um our universities are and and colleges are are coming forward um I I wish our our I wish our local high schools would would move back into that that that trade business but uh uh a little slower than i' like but my question is how much down in southeast fuchia how much industrial land is down there for for the farmton area of South fuia to to develop and and have those people start to migrate up North so that's a really good question councilman Johansson um without having specifics on you know what acreage we have available of course we have a lot of green area a lot of historical trees um we're have to coordinate a lot of that activity uh with my counterpart uh growth management to see how we can responsibly develop that area there there are some uh acreage opportunities down there we'd have to connect a lot of uh you know sewer and and water and utilities uh to that area too but uh the the opportunity is is is primed if we plan it appropriately um in responsibly got it so I'll get you those numbers well I appreciate that and um you know one of the one of the separations that that I I hate but but I get uh rewarded with an explanation every time I mention it is the the kind of The Silo of what team Valia does and and what our Chambers do right with the with the trying to recruit from without and trying to grow from within and uh uh you know I think one of the things that that we as a county and and the cities can do is is to support our Chambers in supporting local business to um to raise the wages of the of the people already here by by helping small business um um you know don't don't go to Amazon and buy a book when you can go to a local bookstore I guess is what I'm saying yeah so thank you very much welcome sir thank you and and perhaps one more uh Troy Ken thank thank you chairman and Cyrus I don't I don't have any questions for you I just have a couple comments for the council and I just wanted to publicly thank um Mr Santiago for for pulling this for discussion because it's a healthy discussion that needs to be had from time to time and you know we get these updates from from staff but Mr Johansson I couldn't agree with you more you know go buy it local a absolutely but to me you know when when I look at this line graph on uh the presentation h-3 it makes me think about one of of our largest exports in Valia County which are our children uh because the jobs that many of them um desire are not here and I had a discussion with uh my baby boy last night and he'd have a fit if he heard me publicly call him my baby boy he's 17 and you know um he's he's graduating in three weeks from high school but part of our discussion last night was about this which is when you finish your your college studies where do you think you want to live right you know because I want to help him want to come back to valua so we we talked about that but back to slide H3 you know looking at this data from 2010 to 2022 vuia is well below Florida's wage very much behind Florida's wage but the trend has been pretty regular until about 2020 to 2022 and that Gap increased even more vuia has fallen behind even more and when I go to the next slide and you know you look at Duval Broward Hillsboro Palm Beach and Miami day compared to valua it's it's just embarrassing you know and then the next slide with the bar graph you know flaggers a little well they're below us putnam's below us Lakes just a little bit below us but then you have St John simal Bard and orange which are well above valua so I thank you councilman Santiago for pulling this for a discussion because this is the discussion we as the elected leaders in valua who sometimes get beat up thank you councilman Dempsey but we something smart if it's to be my I'm GNA try um but you know looking at at that data to me you know it just it it amplifies the point that we sometimes get beat up whenever we look at an incentive for a company to locate here to bring High higher wage paying jobs but it is desperately needed in Valia County I mean the numbers don't lie and I love data over time line graphs bar graphs you know they they do a really good job of showing a true picture of where we are and I'm thankful for CEOs like Charlie licker with Foundation risk Partners who decides that vucha county in Orman Beach is going to be his his home for his business with higher paying jobs and for Emory riddle for for working in this area to try to bring more high paying and better jobs so I'm thankful for that and um I'll just close with uh again um Mr Johansson spot on you know buy it local if and when if and when you can thank you councilman Santiago thank you Mr chairman and I'm glad I wanted to see what comments came out of uh pulling this and talking about it but I think you know we need to go a step further you know we got a great person at the helm here um I think the council though needs to take it to the next level with giving him a little bit more specific Direction um because it's it's a broad comment to say we need to raise wages I'll use an example um you know I'll use Oola County for the past probably four or five years they've had the vision of becoming the chip uh manufacturing area for FL or Capital if you want to call it for Florida so they that their Council set a goal is to this is what we're going to do this is how we're going to invest in it this is the Strategic plan this is how we're going to go to the state and this is how we're going to go to the private sector and they're seeing some enormous results there you know it's taking time it's taking the county manager taking a lot of lumps and beat ups for you know the money that they've invested in in it but they're starting to see the results in it so where I'm going with that is that it probably is going to take a more specific convers ation of this Council um with some data and Trends and giving a a vision more specific to Cyrus and his team in George to saying this is what we want to go after and and what's it going to take and what would be the net results of it so maybe it's a workshop in the future I'll bring it up again but um we need to give him more guidance as to what we want to see other than very broad broad you're going to see incremental changes right and it may go along with the rest of the state but I think if we want to bridge that Gap that that you pointed out clearly we have to go Bolder if that makes sense to raise the wages and and improve the livelihood here in vucha councilman Robbins uh thank you chair David I think you're hitting nail on the head and I believe too with the uh Workshop coming up um we can have a much broader discussion in terms of deregulating uh the local economy and trying to counter some of the stuff that we're dealing with inflation all stuff that's happening not just in in vucha County and in the State of Florida but allr the nation so um uh good good job with that and and I'm looking forward to uh to talking about it and uh government getting out of the way so we can uh pay our workers more thanks County Manager George Reon Wald yeah and I I just think we'd be remiss uh previous councils uh have met on this and I think we this Council needs to uh weigh in on what uh new and uh different ways we want to go uh we' really been working off really space uh supply chain has really been our uh um targeted Industries over the last New Years we do have a space overlay uh we have other things we have a utility program uh for expansion down in the Southeast uh we have a grant program for that as well uh that was brought forth by uh the previous economic development team so we uh we are working on those and I would really welcome uh uh to to exactly what you're saying and zero in on some new uh or updated ideas and I and I will say Cyrus is uh uh been out there uh there's a lot going on a lot going on with the colleges I think uh you'll be hearing uh things this summer uh along those lines so um a lot of good things we definitely that is the purpose really like you said and thank you for bringing that up you know for you iomic development it's all about trying to get good paying jobs wages we're a we're a destination we've been found people want to be here but now it's part part of that what what how can we um direct things to get the right paying jobs to help the community it's long did you I am happy to talk about anything that helps our economy I just wanted to add this uh this comment part of that discussion U I think needs to be you know what we're currently doing and what you're currently doing now um in your Economic Development uh Department um if when you drill down on the issue how do you get high-paying companies here one of the ways that you can do it is to improve uh the business environment I think that's Mr Robbins just mentioned mentioned that several people have and the quality of life here um to to draw those new companies so rather than targeting one company and giving them an incentive we give an incentive to the whole country to be able to come here because it's a it's a safe place to live uh we have clean water uh we're working on on uh flooding problems um streets aren't a mess they're well-maintained um all of those things and that helps our local entrepreneurs as well you you have one of the best programs in the state with the incubator for developing entrepreneurs and they stay here they they leave there and open incredible businesses here usually high-tech businesses um not always but um so it it goes both ways we can we can wisely spend money on our own community that lifts every boat in the business Community makes it easier for them to do business instead of taking months and month this is I'm not blaming anybody on staff you have to follow the law it takes months sometimes to go through the permitting process and get everything that you need that's something that this Council um has has said that they will look at so thank you for your report I just wanted to to add that um entrepreneurs want to live somewhere where there's stuff going on that's fun where there's things downtown where they can get around easily and walk the streets safely so thank you you sir thank you gentlemen Ben Bartlett if you would just what what I wanted you to do is kind of give a a 30,000 foot view of um uh the Lake Monroe project we've heard flooding mentioned numerous times already today along with flooding inevitably comes water quality issues because all those flooding that all those floods carry stuff into so tell us why Lake Monroe Port is important and how in the world does a baffle box separate um nutrients I just I would like to public to know this is a good project absolutely Ben Barlett Public Works director um basically uh we are stakeholders in the uh State's uh bmap for the Middle St John's Lake Harney which requires a certain amount of nutrient reduction load reduction uh from each of the stakeholders this project helps us helps us achieve that by installing these baffle boxes with a uh a filter on them essentially that removes nitrogen and phosphorus from the storm water before it enters the Lake Monroe so we've identified uh multiple outfalls that have no treatment they were uh constructed long ago before storm water regulations existed for for treatment uh they don't go through any retention ponds they basically just collect the water from the roads and discharge them directly into the river uh there's it's primarily in the Enterprise oin Deltona area land is at a premium so the baffle boxes allows us a way to treat that water without having to uh purchase a bunch of land to maybe construct Retention Ponds or something like that so this project is uh arpa funded it's it was identified um as one of the projects when we initially were assigning the direct allocation of arpa money and it's been designed and bid out and now it will be going to construction one last question on that just explain several people here have mentioned by local do it local this project went to a leberg company there was a Delan company who was I think $20,000 more expensive what goes into those decisions it's not just the bottom line um it I would defer the procurement on that but yes it is the uh it is a uh it process and it goes to the low bidder um looks like Pam's coming down and talk about that believe we have Federal money in play and remember local to the feds is the United States of America right so we a lot of times we get into we do have a bu local uh uh ordinance but we also include our neighboring counties because a lot of our businesses don't just work in vucha County so uh if you like Pam could go over that real quick or we could have a uh further discussion but uh the one of the driving factors and especially in our construction projects is where's the money coming from and that usually dictates uh if we can do any kind of um uh local incentive and most of the times we cannot because if it's state money then they see the local as the state of Florida and if it's Federal money it's the United States of America so just uh just keep that in mind when it comes to that bam anything that I you've said it all everything that's all correct the only thing I can say is that if local preference did apply for this it does not because of oura funding Lake county is included in our local preference so it wouldn't have made a difference okay thank you thank you all right that brings us to uh item two name of the City Island courthouse and Janine Jennings will good morning Janine Jennings uh Director of Business Services and I am here to introduce item two which is the naming of our City Island courthouse uh renaming it to the Steven C Henderson judicial Center uh this is a result of a request that was provided at our April 4th meeting of last year to come back and we have worked with the courts and I think judge case has stepped out but she'll be back but at this point I'm going to turn it over to Danny Robbins for some comments I also would like to thank um the Henderson Family for being here with us today and thank you for taking time out to be here thank you Janine good job uh Council I just want to say thank you for um first and foremost considering uh this uh very impactful uh and and great cause uh in in in hearing this case before today uh Council audience uh judge Henderson was born August 22nd 1972 uh military family born in uh to a military family at the Fairchild Air Force bace in Spokane Washington judge Ed Henderson earned his undergraduate degree from bringham Young University and his law degree from Florida State University Steve has a long history of Public Service throughout his service he has served as a prosecutor for the seventh Judicial Circuit Court uh before becoming a judge he was then appointed in 2012 to the county bench presiding over family law Steve was then elevated to Circuit judgeship in 2017 by former Governor Rick Scott Judge Henderson passed away on August 25th 20121 while serving the seventh judicial circuit keeping while keeping Courts open and trying to keep Florida free Steve work tile and will be remembered not only for his dedication to his beautiful family but his service to his community as well for those that don't know the annex Courthouse was built in 1970 and in over 50 years has never carried a name in Council I couldn't think of a better candidate and servant leader to the dedicate to dedicate the annex Courthouse to then Steve with that being said Council I'd like to make a immediate motion to approve this item and cement the Henderson name and his legacy into Valia County History forever thank you second and the motion is uh made by councilman Robbins to approve the renaming second by Matt Reinhardt we do have a member of the public who wants to speak to this I'll call him before we uh uh vote uh John Nicholson johnsona beach side this is not something that somebody would normally speak on um I'm glad you answered who he was because I had no idea who he was um I've only been here 40 years so um but the question is uh we're supposed to be moving this Courthouse hopefully to Beach Street what happens because normally when you uh tear down a building or you move a building the name doesn't go with it so uh it would I'm asking why do it now if we're anticipating moving the court house I me we've been talking the court moving the courthouse what 10 years now the judges don't like the layout of the uh Courthouse that's now existing so if we do move it are we going to say we will move the name with it whe if and when it does happen um secondly what are we going to do with that location um my city manager keeps asking uh you go to the commission the council meetings what are they doing with it what are we doing with it what happens to that 124 million from FEMA if we don't do anything with it for 10 or 20 or 30 years uh will fima just kind of say okay we'll let you have it in 10 or 20 years um that's a lot of money to not use uh it's a great location um I've been talking to staff about uh selling that land in the front half of it on Beach Street for condos uh it would be a great boost for the downtown for Daytona Beach uh to to put condos there uh bodies first of all secondly it is the best location on all of Beach Street to put condos the other location in front of the marina we put for Hut housing no income a lot of crime so this would be great to have it in that location so I'm asking you what are you doing with the land and what happens with the naming of the new because I'm guessing that's the best location to put that Annex would you move it so what are you going to do with the name thank you thank you Janine are you down there oh will you have do you have more um when we're done voting further presentation um I'm going to bring up judge Cas for a couple of words okay and also um the board I can see down here I don't I just want to say this is a rendering of the very um this is what is going to be placed outside of City Island courthouse if can we get that on camera Walk This Way said Steven Taylor Tyler got it okay but this is the sign that will go right outside of the City Island courthouse renaming it so it's it it'll be I think it's Caston bronze thank you okay thank you good morning gentlemen uh my name is Leah case I'm the chief judge of the seventh circuit and um I want to appreciate or give appreciation to the county manager and the assistant County or Deputy C County Manager for for reaching out to me regarding the naming of the building um I think you guys had already vetted it but she uh called me to see what um what my thoughts were I said my thoughts are that it's a county building and the county gets decide what they name their buildings um the judges do not have a say in it uh we shouldn't have a say in it and but having said that let me just uh say a little bit about Steve Henderson I'll get a little choked up excuse me I were I was Steve Henderson's boss um when we were at the state attorney's office and um I kind of felt like his mentor in a way he became a County judge then a Circuit Judge he couldn't ask for a better or more hardworking judge um having said that I recognize that probably you all have heard from different judges saying we have judges that have been longstanding 30 plus years giving service to the community that's why the judges stay out of naming County buildings because that's a county decision um but Steve Henderson served the community um well he was hardw working he was kind and he passed away in the middle of Co like so many other people that were had to work the judges had to work we had court he was in Family Court he had an open courtroom um and so I think it's a great honor um again that you guys are doing this um so I'm here to speak about that and to give you my blessing but in no way am I saying you should do one thing or the other thank you thank you councilman Dempsey yeah I got to watch what I say because the chief judges here and she grades my papers so um yeah I I got to kind of be candid with everybody I'm not big on naming buildings after politicians and Steve was a politician but let me tell you I got to know I'm voting in favor of this okay just to kind of let you know where I'm headed but I I knew Steve as a prosecutor when judge case was his boss I knew him as a County judge and I knew him as a Circuit Judge and I've practiced in front of him in all three Realms and uh he was a good guy he he he had a great demeanor and uh saying sorry he uh what I liked about him and the reason I'm going along with this is that he exemplified what judges should be he had the best demeanor I mean I pulled some Antics in front of him as a prosecutor judge case or judge Campbell will tell you the stuff I used to pull in her courtroom and uh and I pulled Antics in front of uh judge Henderson and he put up with my nonsense and he was always polite and the thing I remember most about him is he sorry he would always ask me about my family always how's your son doing how's your daughter doing and then inevitably conversation always came up about his family he was so proud of you guys and he loved you and like Jeff said um what is this T we B I buried my mom Sunday at 81 years old and I believe your dad was 49 when he passed and my heart broke for you guys because you missed out on on another 32 years that I got to enjoy with my mom that you'll never have with your dad so I'm going along with this not because he was some great legal scholar there's plenty of other judges 30 years senior to him who were equally smart but I want to see you guys have a memorial of your dad for the next 32 years so and further because just because my heart breaks for you guys what you're missing out on with your dad because he really really loved you guys that's all I'm sorry guys thanks well well done well timed thank you Don for for adding that uh anybody else on the council have a question or a comment before I call for the vote I'll in favor of um renaming the City Island courthouse the Ste St C Henderson judicial Center please say I I any opposed motion carries 7 to zero and I think it would be fitting for us to uh stand up and applaud this family [Applause] thank you boy is it all boys there I I can't see the last seat any girls two girls very good uh councilman Johansson um Janine or or somebody what's the the timeline on when this will be put down and will it be announced for ribbon cutting or something of we will do a press release we're just waiting for the when we can actually get the casting um installed and it's very soon so we will um I'm going to work with Community Information so we can schedule um a proper unveiling give us enough time Absolut to schedule thanks thank you thank you that brings us to item three a presentation by Tara McHugh aicp executive director of the East Central Florida Regional planning council is this on okay good morning thank you chair thank you council members for allowing me to come and speak with you for a few minutes about the regional planning Council and how we've been working with uh valicia County for a number of years I'm going to really highlight the last couple years and what you can see uh moving forward we are one of 10 Regional planning councils across the State of Florida we are established in 1962 to support the counties our eight counties valicia County included as well as our 78 partner cities Regional and state Partners as well in addressing Regional issues on a local and Regional scale uh when you look at our funding sources what's really important to highlight is over 70% of our funding sources are from federal and state contracts and grants um and as you can see from the return on investment when you're looking at a regional return on investment for the past 5 years we are bringing in a lot of funding into our region to yield a 13 to1 um return on investment valua as you'll see through my presentation the reason why you guys are at a 14 to1 return on investment as a state authorized agency we do have some um requirements that we need to complete every single year the only one I'm really going to focus on today further in my presentation is the lepc because we do a lot of training here in vucha county and work closely with your Emergency Management we like to consider the regional planning Council as an extension of local government so what makes uh our local government run Community Development emergency preparedness Economic Development like you heard today and so on we need to make sure that our program areas and experts in our staff reflect that and our able to provide services and technical support for our partners so with that little bit of background I really want to talk about where we've been with valua County and where we're going together since 2017 every single year we have been engaged with your staff um in the realm of resilience we started the conversation in 2017 with the TPO and are currently right now conducting your 2024 vulnerability assessment to make sure that the county is in line with State Statute and eligible for funding from the resilient Florida um program if you look on the screen these are just uh um copies or covers of all the reports and studies that we've done we've worked with the TPO we've worked with a variety of your departments as well as the um office of emergency management and all of the projects have been funded through grants um from D from Florida SE Grant from National SE Grant um and then Emergency Management contracts what we're doing right now with the um vulnerability assessments and the power um that the regional planning Council gives to these um projects is that we're working on more than just one we've just completed Pon Inlet we're working on Orman Edgewater Valas a number of cities we're pulling into Valas but we're also working in Bard County and the uh what comes out of that is that we're able to streamline our process and so vucha County can pick up the city of satellit satellite Beach's vulnerability assessment and speak the same language and be able to coordinate um across jurisdictional lines bravard County Line vucha County Line and speak the same language and work together to um identify projects and ways that we as a region can be more resilient um especially in light of flooding low impact development and design I know is a priority for vucha County it is also a priority for the regional planning Council and we had the privilege of working with your team through a now economic develop um e Florida Department of Commerce Grant on an award-winning project where we looked at your um your ordinances and provided recommendations to incorporate Li into those which I believe you are now working with UF to move forward and we also developed a low impact development guide book um with um IAS and other partners that we pulled together in order to develop this the um QR code on your screen you can access that award-winning product as well as other products we developed through this opportunity again it was funded um through State contract but what we also did was because fuch County staff really wanted make sure that they were able to set the state AG to have these conversations um previously we had worked with them through funding from D to create um resources that they could share uh throughout the community uh with stakeholders when they were having meetings and um and workshops about what liid is what nature-based Solutions are how they can be used and their benefits so on your screen are just a couple examples of those I was really um intrigued with the conversation from your Economic Development team earlier uh we have a really strong relationship with the US Eda the regional planning council is designated as our um as the economic development district for our region for our eight counties and what that does is it provides an opportunity for the county as well as the jurisdictions to um to obtain money from the federal government and over the past several couple of years um valua County was on the receiving end of $5 million of infrastructure money for the Daytona International Airport and the Plex research hanger so I really hope that especially in southeast um valua we have been working with some of the um the jurisdictions down there to coordinate with Eda to get them shovel ready or um project ready to try and get some money for that um also the Eda after Irma and Ian um funded a disaster recovery coordinator we're about 18 months into our current coordinator and they were really instrumental in working with the City of Deltona to secure their recovery and resilience partnership project know it's going back a couple years but we like to use the funding that we have and give back into the community so we did receive cares funding from the Eda and we were able to work with our partners in southeast valua to develop their economic strategic um plan and so we continue to work with them to help move that forward and identify funding sources for infrastructure projects um IND and working with them to bring some Industries into the region um valua county is one of our 44 partners for our regional resilience is collaborative I am not going to go into everything that this amazing group is doing because that's a presentation in itself um some of the things that they're working on right now is on the right side of the screen but what I really wanted to do was highlight the Partnerships and the value that that this um this program of the regional planning Council brings we are bringing in million-dollar grants from some of our federal Partners including um the Department of Defense and the EPA as well as working with um some of the brain power behind projects such just Stetson and the University of Central Florida so we're able to bring together um funding as well as technical assistance into our region to help priorities move forward within counties and the region as a whole and I do want to um thank council member Johansson for speaking at our leadership conference um that we had back in October down at the Kennedy Space Center I talked about the local emergency preparedness committee this is one of our biggest programs um that we are so proud of and it grows every single year uh through this program we are able to update plans we uh teach training courses do exercises um we have a great staff that uh works very closely with your First Responders and Emergency Management last year through our regional trainings we were able to um train 53 students from valua on a variety of different topics they also participated in our regional cix cyber security tabletop exercise that we had um the pictures on your screen are are from that exercise and then coming up we are working with your um emergency management team to hold a functional exercise as well as a tabletop exercise around hurricanes and we are updating the local mitigation strategy and flood planate management 5-year plan one of the our biggest events that we hold that we're so proud of that we bring nearly 700 individuals into the county is our hazardous material Symposium we hold it every year in Dayton Beach um it's a 3-day event and we just kind of not express our gratitude to vucha County and their fire rescue for hosting our competition um on their uh training facilities and then volunteering their time to help set that up and um score and and be be a part of that competition through our lepc funding we are also able to um pay for uh and sponsor 16 um First Responders from valua County to attend the QR code on the screen um goes to our video which really gives you a greater um it's a video of the the Symposium and you really get a feel for just how important this training is for all of our First Responders around Hazmat one thing that we're also another thing that we're also really proud of with our em team is that um they're here to assist in response and so not only within our region but outside of the region so we are part of the all Hazard Incident Management team along with valua County and others within our region and um we get deployed or they get deployed and they were deployed to um Hamilton County after idalia as well as Across the Nation for some other previous events and then of course we like to recognize the great work being done throughout our region um so we brought back our our Diamond Awards our 2024 was our second annual Diamond Awards celebration and so um when we do our 2025 I really hope that we get to see some great work coming out of Lucha County in your partner jurisdiction so that we can um celebrate your successes being part of the regional planning Council means that we have an amazing board and I I can't thank enough council member Robinson Johansson for being part of that board and coming to our meetings one of the benefits of that is that they get to talk to and engage with elected leaders from Seven other counties and participate in our board meetings that we do move across our region so they can see what's going on in in other areas in East Central Florida this is just one of example where we went to visit some State College to see how their programs were being run and um for the new upcoming Workforce and then some members of our board participate on our Florida Regional Council council's Association policy board and we meet twice a year with all the other Regional planning councils where they get to engage with elected leaders from across the State of Florida talk about Regional issues state issues legislation um and how Regional planning councils are working together um and individually to address Regional issues and that is all I have and that is an uh link to our annual report and I'm happy to answer any questions councilman Johansson uh no questions but comments and Terry you may want to elaborate a little bit um so if you recall uh gentlemen this was a request from me uh to kick off uh having folks who who re we write checks to every year to come explain what they do for us and and what our Roi is because um uh come budget time we always kind of ask what do they do and and and why are we spending that much money on them so uh since I was on the executive committee I asked George and terara to be the first to bat but I imagine team Valia and others will follow um I have the privilege of of being on this board with the uh council member Robbins and one of the things that that I very much appreciate is the collaboration with the regional the other counties uh I know most of us are on boards where uh where there's other counties involved and and the the collaboration and the and the the thinking in each county is different but I get to take away every time something to bring back and poor George and Suzanne usually uh well they're already ahead of of it because the practitioners are already thinking about things but uh it's amazing some of the things uh uh the regional planning councils do and and I appreciate the East Central Florida Regional U planning Council uh uh very much David brought something up at the uh about the Q presentation about H how do we how do we raise our our average wages well East Central Florida Regional planning probably has some study or a bunch of people that have that answer for us how we can how can we can kind of chip in on some um uh some Niche and and make progress so uh I appreciate everything you do thanks for allowing me to be on the board and uh I'm looking forward to many years of collaboration and coordination with you thank you thank you any other questions or comments by Council thank you very much for coming in uh can I get a motion to accept a report uh yep I was just going to say chairman thank you a motion to uh accept the report as presented Second Joe Hanson motion by uh Vice chair Kent second by councilman johe Hanson all in favor say I I I any opposed thank and you're accepted thank you item four approval of award for affordable housing development Gap funding Dr Brad bbal good morning council members uh Brad bbal Community Services director so included in your Friday update with the packet in addition to the reading materials was a PowerPoint that um provides an overview of who needs help and who we're helping in our community uh what are the housing needs what this Council has done to address the needs as well as others um how we've maximized our funding streams which is a strategy um as well as the terms of the agreement so I'm prepared to go through the presentation if it's council's prerogative Mr chair I just uh request a brief presentation since we have it already in front of us also okay Carman Hall our outstanding community Assistance director is going to join me we're going to tag team uh this presentation and get through it um pretty quickly we'll stop at the projects that are funded and see if you would like us to go further just cursory review but I think most importantly we've seen some unprecedent unprecedented changes in the housing market in our community um in terms of rampid investor buying what we haven't seen before um the in increasing renter housing demand 450,000 people moved to Florida in 21 and 22 um and we only produce 165,000 new units so that's what's contributing to this affordability Cris crisis um you know as well as the there's a production issue you know the the decade following the Great Recession was the lowest number of houses built since the 60s so um all of those kind of have created the a storm in our housing market but here are the people that we really helping and and I think the point here is that these are workingclass people these are people who are disabled these are people who are on fixed income that need support in terms of the housing crisis um many of these are full-time workers they're just struggling um there are essential workers there are teachers our healthc care employees our law enforcement our firefighters um are highly impacted and they're the cornerstones of our community really um we have to keep people s safe and healthy and educated and those essential workers are really having a hard time finding a place to stay in our community so that's the um those are the people that we're helping it's it's people that are working it's the Working Poor it's the working class that need a hand up and not a hand out okay so on this slide you can see on the top we have the it says fmr that's fair market rent So currently that is the highest acceptable rent within our County that would be considered affordable you'll see a lot of rents that are higher than that and you could see some that are a little bit lower but it is rare So with this fair market rent for a two-bedroom apartment it would cost to make it affordable um it would cost some or it would take somebody making $25 per hour in order to afford this okay so this is a 35% increase in our local prices since 2021 so at $25 an hour that would mean that somebody is making right over $52,000 a year to get an affordable two-bedroom apartment within our County the average the mean renter wage in vucha county is $17.48 so that's right over $36,000 so you can kind of see where the Gap is in the income within our County fuchia County currently has 34,000 renter households that are cost burden that means they're spending over 30% of their income on housing expenses and 50% of those households are spending over 50% of their income on their household expenses so that gives paints a picture of where a lot of our residents are right now and one of the things I think to contextualize this slide so you're looking at a 35% increase in local rent prices since 2021 and I asked Cyrus and our team for this data how what was wage growth in those two years and it was 6.1% so where you see rent increase by 35% you're seeing wages increase by 6% so there's a a dir there in terms of um the wage growth versus the it's supply and demand essentially what's driving the price so just to provide an example um you know from the shimberg studies of a local example to contextualize this in 2014 the average monthly rent was $900 in the Daytona Beach area in 2014 in 2023 it's $194 so $1,000 increase over those um few years over 100% so what has this Council done and I think that a lot of times um people don't understand the depth and breadth of uh what this Council and elected officials have done um to basically you know get more supplies out the door and preserve what we have in affordable housing stock that's really evidence-based strategies in terms of how do we keep people in affordable homes because the cost to put the cost of them being homeless Central Florida did a study on this cost taxpayers about 30 $5,000 a year per homeless person so institutional care as well has a much higher burden uh on the taxpayers than helping people stay in their homes um that has been our Focus as you will see almost 100 million uh but also creating more affordable housing units since 2021 this Council has um supported the development of 119 afford new affordable units with this 302 that we're presenting today it will be 1321 units that this Council has supported along with the state okay so how are we maximizing our existing funding streams this is a goal in our affordable housing plan and so by this proposal um there's $8.7 million made available through this RFP that funding is all federal and state grants and they're federal and state grants that have to be used towards affordable housing so I think that's really important to point out um the intent of the RFP was to bridge to bridge the gap these are develop ments that already have access and been awarded funds um either through the state they have local um private financing um there's a variety of factors that we'll get into later but they still have a gap in order to complete the project and so that was the intent of this proposal all developments needed to be a minimum of 50 units and they were capped for standard units and um permanent Supportive Housing units which you'll see the phrase that's um permanent support of housing for those individuals that might need a little bit um extra help in order to live independently than to transition them into permanent to permanently being able to live independently and then the committee just recommended $7.8 million so the terms of the agreement one of the things I think that's important to point out here is that um we've turned to the private Market to incentivize development um this approach is uh not socialism we're using um the the tools in the the capitalistic system to try to help us solve this problem so um you know not everyone got what they asked for in terms of this uh request that nearly 12% of the there was a 12% Gap presented by the projects that were awarded um and we are awarding 7% so they're going to have to go back out to the market or find a way to make it happen so again um you know if if this was socialism we wouldn't turn to the private sector for Solutions the public sector would be the development firm and the owner of the facilities which we are not we just provide incentives for the private sector okay so on this slide this just provides an overview of the capital stack and so you can see majority of the funding for all four of these projects makes 56% is our tax credits at the state level they have competed for those funding either the 4% or the 9% and they have received that funding so that's majority of it there's also local State funding mortgages and Loans deferred developer fees and then there is still a gap like Brad just mentioned of $12 million so this funding is proposing 7.8 million in local County Grant funds um to help close that Gap and one one of the things that point out is this is a one-time investment of Grant funds to get these projects into an affordability status for 50 years so I was talking to my contact at the Builders Association and that you know they said there's a ripple effect to this investment in terms of the data that they use when they present to the state legislature and that is um for every 1 million and and government funding um it generates uh $7.6 million in economic activity uh every 1 million generates over 2.98 million of earnings or income and for every 1 million of government funding 77 jobs are created in the affordable housing sphere so this your investment today if approved of 7. 7 million represents 59 be the Catalyst towards $59 million in economic activity 23 million of new earnings and income in our community and 600 jobs created so this is just a a snapshot of of the um need in our community so our Gap is about 11,000 rental H or rental affordable rental properties um and this is the category that the the individuals are proposing um we've assisted 264 some of one of the development um you know just needed some money for some specific units but it really will bring 302 uh units online at the end of the day so these are uh kind of the requests from each of the projects and what was awarded I'll stop here if there's any questions if you'd like me us to continue no can continue I might have a question on another development um Don Brad that study that you were referring to you said back in 2014 the average rental I guess that was a two bedroom three-bedroom it was an average it was an average okay I can I can pull the the report for you it's in the home matters report that's published by the Florida housing cor Finance Corporation okay in that study do you also have 2004 rental rates no sir I can I can find that for you how long would it take you to find that is that easily accessible to you or is that not standing here at the podium I couldn't find it but if you gave me fair enough fair enough um but actually I'm looking at uh a couple of sites here rent Cafe and rent.com and they're showing that uh I mean would you agree with this that the rental prices have actually dropped this past year by 1% in Daytona and Florida two and a half percent I would say that they've stabilized they haven't you know yes they've stabilized okay all right if you happen to come across that stat for 2004 I'd appreciate it the sir thank you I just just a quick question on the projects that are in various cities do they also have to get city uh Commission approval it depends on the project and where it's located um we do have one that is in unincorporated um fuchia County but they are working with the local municipality Orange City on utilities and then the other three if I am correct are all located within Municipal are all located within municipalities so they would have to work with them also just like any other development project the one that you have on the screen now danan did that I think that was already by the city commission did it make it through so um blue Ian is here and Shan is the you know the I believe President of the organization he can speak to that but my understanding is this was a cursory informal review last night it was not an approval it was each commissioner um expressing um you know their sentiments and comments about the project but it was not a vote uh I based on our conversations with Shan this morning um he and Mark Watts feel that there's a pathway uh for the issues that were identified by the um by the Delan commission so what happens if we vote for all of these and then this one or another one is turned down by the city's process cost correct so it's a cost reimbursable just like many of our grants so if they don't incur the cost of development they won't get our money and so we would use that money for a different project okay uh David did you have a question at this point com mment and a motion Mr chair okay thank you Mr chair um good job staff this has been a lot of work in in the making and several meeting discussion I think you took it to where um the council had guided you all um the best part of this is we're using Grant monies is not recurring funds and with that Mr chair I move to approve David Santiago makes a motion to approve uh the funding is there a second a second second by Vice chair Kent and they sit down so they uh there's probably no reason to go through it all we do have several members of the public okay sorry Jake I see I oh by the way question Brad um can you go back to the the capital stack please sorry about that Chris or whoever's putting the screen back up the capital stack slide there we go yes sir so the the tax credit Equity is that is that money that we we will not uh we will not collect revenue from because it's a tax credit so I'm going to tell my team to correct me if I speak out of turn so um this is the loow income housing tax credits at the state level essentially what they're doing uh is my understanding of the process and our developers are in the office in the in the audience as well is they basically it's vouchers so they sell these on on the the market to reduce corporate tax rates got it um and then the local and state funding of 19 million local is that somebody other than the county so one of the projects has previously received a local County contribution of $460,000 probably about two years ago for the development of one of the projects and that local contribution made them competitive for the tax credits at the state level got it so they've so really that's an additional $400,000 of Gap it was just Gap from four years ago correct correct we wouldn't look at it as Gap we would look at it as a contribution without that contribution they wouldn't have been competitive for the tax credits at the state level so so there's a 4% tax credit which is um available to most folks and then the 9% is high competitive and we luckily this helps us leverage those by having a local um contribution ship gives us that allocation each year of what we need to give to one of those local projects so it's a requirement of ship funding in the $8.2 million and deferred developer fees those are are County fees and City fees no there's are these are fees paid to the developers my understanding so what they're doing is they can defer it to later in the project rather than upfront so it's not included in the financing got it where in the funding is the developer skin in the game or or is it totally paid for by OPM other people's money I think it's other mortgages and Loans is the the private sector contribution here so they would be required to to repay I appreciate it thanks just I hope this is a quick question I don't know well it's quick question I don't know if it's going to be a quick answer but what are all of the things that you look at to decide I mean not everybody was picked uh that submitted so what's the criteria that you're looking at to to uh determine which one makes the cut so a lot of this since it's maximizing our funding stream and and using multiple different sources uh of funds a lot of the the funding has different requirements um the really the at the end of the day chair Brower uh the team and I's approach is to get the most affordable housing units for the least amount of money at the end of the day so the ones that you've that we've proposed your team has proposed uh on average uh is about $25,000 per unit in support um in contrast you know the the individuals that were not selected for this RFP were asking for 50 on average $59,000 per unit okay thank you thank you yes sir uh I don't see any other questions from Council so I'll call the uh I think there's four members of the public that wanted to speak to this first is Shan Wilson good morning Mr chair excuse me and members of the council staff members of the uh public my name is Sean Wilson I'm the president of Blue Sky communities and we're an affordable housing developer we're based in St Petersburg and I want to um thank staff for the recommendation and compliment staff on um uh running a really good process we participate in a lot of rfps and other counties um that are similar to Valia County for example Sarasota County and P County um for similar types of funding and um you know what I want to what I want to express to you guys about the process is excuse me to the council um about the process is that you are um you're you have the luxury of having an affordable housing development machine it's a nationwide machine all cities and counties participate in the 4% and the 9% low-income housing tax credit program it's a Reagan ero program it was passed in the 1986 tax reform act and it is a very successful affordable housing development program uh it's heavily monitored it's administered by the state of Florida so you can be sure that the developers that you're awarding the funding to because we all have state funding that we're all experienced that we know what we're doing and that not only are we going to build it efficiently and effectively without unduly enriching ourselves or um or um damaging the county financially but we're going to manage it and it's going to stay nice for decades to come and there are examples of these kinds of communities in Valia County that have stayed nice for a long time and I'm sure that these four will as well um with with respect to my particular development it's uh it's basically right behind this building it's a high-profile site in downtown Dand and we did have a very nice meeting which y'all can stream or you can have your staff look at um last night with the city commission and we have already been in front of his historic preservation and Technical Review Committee and uh we got really good comments and I think that we definitely have uh have um a path forward to get uh formal approval uh by the city Commission in due time and not in due time in an in an expedient uh manner such that we can uh spend the funding um and you guys can meet your goals and um uh one comment that came up before about what happened Happ s if you approve the funding today and then a particular development does not move forward you you will not have spent the dime before that happens we because what we do is um we're we will if you approve it today we'll get we'll get a commitment from you but then we'll actually do a loan closing together with all of our other closing after permitting is done right before we're going to break ground so no money is going to get spent until we actually start construction thank you very much Mr chair thank you uh Gary is it yes yes yes big I couldn't tell if that was a b or a uh or a g thank you chair Brower and council members my name is Gary yesbeck and I live in the far north northeast side of the county and Orman by the Sea um and I'm I'm here basically to to support this Initiative for affordable housing my background is uh believe it or not over about a decade ago I retired as a corporate sustainability officer for a large multinational company with 67 companies all over the world that made uh building products and one of the things that we realize in sustainability is that the company can't Thrive unless the community around it the system around it is also thriving and so we made investments in the community we did a lot of work with um Habitat for Humanity at the national level and at the local level we donated tons of cabinets and faucets and all kinds of products and goods and services and provided labor on those projects um so with respect to that I also want to mention that I heard earlier about this Economic Development uh effort and wanting to raise the average wage in the county which I think is laudable and we have to be careful because I think the Temptation is to jump to well it's just a track some big industries that pay a lot of money uh and that'll raise the W raise the wage and it will raise the average wage but the people that we're talking about that need affordable housing are the people that take care of our parents and nursing homes you know the people that beg our groceries they teachers and others and those are a a part of the community that will still be here and so these are not lazy people most of them are full-time employed people that would need our help uh so we have to take two prong approach and raising the average wage and we have to help these people I think with affordable housing uh I'm also part of the Faith organization in valua County which has these annoying t-shirts that you probably have seen before um and I as a person of faith I fully uh think this is part of our responsibility and and taking care of those that are around us uh I thought the presentation was done EX extremely well uh I realize that uh the rental housing has kind of stabilized more recently but in the last several years it has raised it has gone up much more uh than wages so I urge you to approve this uh and thank you very much thank you John Nicholson John Nixon totona beach side uh several years ago the county had a workshop on affordable housing uh it was found that there was a need for it uh secondly um about a year no about two three years ago uh there were four projects uh that came before the council uh two were in Daytona Beach one on Martin Luther King one on uh Madison the one in Holly Hill which is in this presentation and the fourth one I can't recall where it was was um there's a need for it and the one that's here I only know the one I wish you would have given all four so I could had something to compare uh you only presented the one and then the other one I already knew about um but there's a specific need that the Holly Hill project does it's different from what was presented uh four or five years ago um but we we definitely need to Target affordable housing I know for those of you that are capitalists those of you that are Republicans everybody pulled themselves up by their own bootstraps but some people can't all right you had several people come before you years maybe a year ago uh were in trailers senior citizens and they never foresaw that their lot fees would go up so high so fast uh they can't afford it and they're at firststep shelter so uh I'm asking you to support this and in the future anything that you could do to help the senior and those that are in this this Market thank you thank you uh Jason Myers thank you Mr chair Jason Meyer Holly Hill Florida Synergy billing and Fountain Head developers thank you so much for having me and for hearing me out U I started my first business when I was 15 I'm born and raised here in fuchia County I've never received W2 income from a business I didn't own I don't believe in handouts I believe in hand UPS right help people that are trying to help themselves I've been hearing about affordable housing for years and we keep trying to throw money at it more and more government money more and more tax dollars we've got to think differently about how we solve this problem that's what I challenged my team to do we submitted an RFP we submitted a proposal for a new type of affordable housing that is actually built affordably and delivers a great product to seniors and to working individuals now Gap funding doesn't specify how large of a gap when you're getting $100 million in incentives to build 302 units your Gap is smaller than when you're a private guy putting 7 million of your own dollars into a project and you're asking for the threshold that the County's established of 60,000 a unit okay so these guys are professionals are going out there and shopping around getting the money I'm trying to solve the problem differently deliver something great for our community for people that need it I've recruited a business into town that's going to serve seniors they're going to employ 100 people people they going to be on this Campus A lot of these folks could live there open to the public right also have another Primary Health Clinic coming to this campus can employ people a lot of those people are working individuals that could benefit from this so Holly Hill is definitely a community that needs affordable housing but we've got to make it sustainable and we've got to think differently about this problem when you look at that Capital stack how much of that money is skin in the game right the amount of mortgages they're going to have is the amount of money I'm putting into the project I've spent $8 million already I'm about to spend 10 million in new construction and then I would invest another millions of dollars in the development of this so to me that's a public and private partnership I don't think the ask is too significant it's the threshold established by the county I think that staff got this one wrong they looked at it as just a normal scoring process and I get that but I think we've got to think differently about this problem and that this is a way to create something that is sustainable in our community onetime dollars and maybe the percentage is a little bit higher but as far as total tax dollars and how much we're going after from the government not nearly anywhere like that so this is a beautiful project that is going to create Studios and we're using alternative materials to create this and this is something that could be replicated throughout the community and other people can build affordably too without a lot of subsidies so thank you for your consideration but I think at this time it shouldn't be an approval should be a reconsideration of how we're allocating these dollars thank you Derek Collins how you doing nice to see you guys again um this is on a different type of scale you know me when it comes to me I'm dealing with the youth and youth only um so I deal with ages seven or nine to 18 17 technically um right now and the reason why I'm here regarding this situation is is I wanted to after that age group I I have no control over what I can do with these Youth and the families I have to pretty much just let them go to whatever Services deal with adults um and the RP that we um are looking to do is allowing youth that don't have foster care kids that age out so after they age out of foster care they have to go to a location sometimes they're group homes sometimes there shelters sometimes there's just apartments that they can kind of work with um so what we were proposing was to allow of same 50 units as these some some of these other programs were doing but it's catered towards kids aging out of Youth um kids aging out of fosta care um and a lot of these other agencies we're dealing with homelessness the youth in population that I'm dealing with will turn into homelessness if we're not able to provide a a smooth transition from Foster Care to to adulthood so our program will be dealing with kids aging out of foster care transitioning from traditional foster care into aging out type of Foster here and will continue the services that we provide for those kids 9 to 18 along these kids these are now transitioning into adults from which will allow us to serve these kids from 18 to 24 which allows me to uh broaden my scope of the services that we provide um to to my population um I know that um we were asking for all of the money for our presentation um so we did not partner and have loans and stuff like that like they already like some of these other agencies did so that was the reason why I believe our program was turned down is because we were asking for a higher amount than than they were um we met all of the other qualifications but I did like Mr Jason Meyer said I just want you guys to reconsider where some of these money where some of this money is going because um like I said the kids that we deal with will turn into homelessness um and and statistics show it the statistics show it so um I do think you guys should reconsider um some other options outside of just the traditional agencies that we that were chosen [Applause] Elizabeth pompy I just have a statement as I was listening to all of this um as to an idea I don't know if it's ever been considered and how it would even be done because I don't do this stuff but we have lots of defunct malls that are throughout our County what kind of incentive can be given to those land owners to use that property to build this type of housing instead of just letting the space sit there and rot away is that something that can be considered and be addressed that's all I have to say thank you uh Randy from Dand I am uh Randy Williams I'm actually from Michigan originally um and I'm actually supporting this gentleman's uh comments here I graduated with a BBA from uh a college in Michigan that um was all about free enterprise and uh I think the stack that Jake uh identified the private investment in the projects was in the teens and the rest was coming from other uh funding sources that were involved government and if you're not um I believe I haven't been really accustomed to keeping up on the news lately but our federal government and other places are technically bankrupt and so to continue the process of uh obtaining funds for a very needy um uh purpose I'm not denying that um I'm just saying you got to rethink or you ought to consider rethinking how you uh fund these types of projects and some creativity and um some um Ingenuity uh you could uh possibly be at a uh a stepping stone for other counties to um take your example um there's all sorts of other uh things that I've minimally read that could do do uh great Justice in helping uh affordable housing and um the homeless of which I am one um and I've purposely not um taken housing um for my own conscience because I have a lot of different reasons um but I think the private sector is the way to consider the funding for the stack funding was in the teens and uh we're we're getting funds from uh organizations that are technically insolvent and um including our federal government for a lot of different projects so you have an opportunity to show a good example I appreciate everything you guys have have done for me thank you thank you and that is the end of the public participation period uh Brad or or Carmen I just had a one more question for you this am amount of money that we have today that we're voting on is that uh is that all of the money dedicated to this and for what period of time and how do we replenish it so um as part of this solicitation we had 8.7 I believe and you can see we're awarding 7.8 so um that was because the the permanent support of housing funds that we had and these are basically units um that align with our housing first strategy to get homeless people off the street we've seen a a significant over the last 10 years going to this policy that was you know formed under Bush senior where we provide housing first and then we address the other issues has decreased our homeless population by about a thousand we're seeing that prob we're seeing that slowly creep up again um so these units will be important in addressing that issue and it gets people off the streets and gets them the services they need um we have more money in that pot than we were able to award so I have committed to Jason and his team um after the solicitation I turned to them there is no doubt there's a need for the the foster care um you know Continuum there needs to be a facility to address that Continuum um my advice was that I will work with them we'll put some this money back out on the street we'll also have some additional ship dollars um now again ship only a small percentage can be used for rental um some ship dollars back out on the street and you know committed to helping them be successful uh with their projects as much as we can okay thank you that's good to hear I I'm wondering is how do we replenish this do do you have another round of money besides what you have in reserves now that will come I know that depends on the state and the federal government okay this is all that you know of right now so this was a combination of multiple sources so it was program income from our federal program and our state program as well as some allocations um from the state and federal government as well okay so do you want me yes please so just to elaborate a little bit um we do receive program income throughout the year it's pretty nominal but we do anticipate ship funding in July of this year and then additional home funds in October of this year and so at that time we would have more funds to be dedicated to projects thank you both there's also if I may and I I'm leaving this out but this Council approved I I believe 50 I believe 50 million um for rental development uh as part of cdb gdr so the folks that were not eligible for this one um you know can certainly apply for that funding stream which the RFP should be going out on the street um you know in the next few months okay thank you uh Danny Robbins thanks chair uh Brad uh Carman M Carman yes sir um how much should we just dedicate through transform 386 for affordable housing and and some of uh these incentives just off the top of your head roughly so I believe so I if I'm Donna will text me if I'm wrong and I'll correct the record so I believe uh was it 200 million for uh housing rehabs yeah um 5050 million for rental development the team is frantically looking 50 million for rental development and then here's another one I know uh Miss Hall it sent out an email and I I use it as a reference time to time but it's been a few years and I think we're in north of maybe 100 million it was 80 million at the time for like local rehabs whether it's AC units and some of those prop I know there's a lot of stuff like that that we do locally is the Sadowski still operative in the state yes sir that's a ship dollar that's where ship comes from um where is it here does programs like this pay for its impacts like impact fees and all that stuff yes to date now this Council approved a deferral as part of the comp plan changes which we'll come back to you in an ordinance form and Mr Johansson had asked earlier um so there's also deferred tax credits with this kind of stuff as well um or defer deference in the tax uh the taxes corporate taxes so no they actually so they get credits and they sell them to corporate entities to reduce their now one of the things that I've read recently is you know before the the um you know the the Trump tax bill they would get a dollar for dollar but now that we've reduced the corporate tax rate they're getting about you know 70 to 90 cents 90 cents um to the dollar for for those tax credits okay thanks Brad sir Council I think this comes down to principle with with me I know Don and I have been on the same page throughout this and I don't know if we're just preaching the choir but you know um on the principle and I think you know once again we we do a tremendous amount in this area um and my question has always been and and we heard some some testimony some statements earlier you know how do we keep things sustainable but ask the taxpayers the taxpayers are paying for this at some point uh you know so how do we how do we make things uh sustainable um because these are government plans trying created to combat government created problems you know we have uh wage growth 6% when inflation is north of 10 inflationary spending is is rabid um Mr Meyer is absolutely right we have to really re-evaluate how we're coming up with some of these formulas because you know we have a need for 34,000 rentals but there's 564 th000 residents uh should it be the the Gap they uh responsible for funding uh a minority population like this when there's a lot of things I know we're we're too far down the the road for some of this stuff if I don't support this it' be on the principal end I I want to focus more on uh getting people back to work um working uh giving them all the tools and the options to be successful government getting out of the way so we create less dependability uh both present uh and in the future and just relieve this this burden from uh the overwhelming majority of the taxpayers thank you County attorney Michael Dyer I apologize my tablet hit the speak button okay so you have to say something now councilman Matt Reinhardt thank you chair um a lot of the questions the chairman had asked with respect to um how to replenish it and I understand that uh what is it uh you said ship dollars available in July home dollars in October um 8.7 is available but we're only using 7.8 um and there is an issue affordable housing is an issue I I'm I'm only going to speak to it as a local um these bigger developments that are out there that that want to do this I commend you sir and those that want to do that and Jason I do as well um when I lost my mom about a year ago she had a big heart and there was a young couple that lived in that house and it was a three-bedroom one and a half bath house just not an apartment complex but if you want to talk about affordable housing and she rented it to him for 850 a month there a corner lot it's nice home and when she passed we tried desperately to keep it at that my mom was a little bit better off financially uh we're in a position now that it's hard to do when you're paying property taxes and insurance and I'm sure these gentlemen have that issue as well so there's a lot to take it in um I had the pleasure of listening to uh Jason's proposal and I liked it I did I'll be honest I mean I thought about he showed me the concept of it I I really did like it I mean it put people to work uh a little while ago we were talking about um the workforce housing issue we just brought up the salaries and Corrections I know I keep bringing that up but we we have an issue we have a need still uh 25 more in the academy we're trying to bring even more we're trying to keep those people walking across the aisle when they're receiving their diplomas to come back and stay here and work here in valuchi county and I think a program like that would would do that Jason so um I agree with what you're saying so um I'd be interested to see the rest of the my colleagues say thank you thank you councilman Johansson thank you chairman um you know so I don't like spending taxpayers money uh without without thinking hard about it uh but but the the problem of affordable housing is not going to go away and we know that that people that live comfortably in a house um uh are stable there's social cohesion there's Community uh there's a lot of things that that come with that that that are are not maybe tangible to us but um uh when people aren't struggling to figure out where they're going to put their pillow in their head at night uh they they become more more more a a part of of an impact on our community and so I think it's important that that we don't not fund this uh these are these are government dollars with with a lot of rules tied to them that if that if we don't use it somebody else will I get that um so so the question becomes do we do we use it for for what the staff has approved or recommended or do we use it for for other items that may or may not have been approved U my question to staff last week and and I I got a soft answer of yes is that can can all these uh things that have been proposed both proposed and and recommended and not recommended um fit in some better bucket and be approved because I do like Mr Meyer's plan and I I do like the the Mr Mrs uh uh mentorship um uh issue and so so can we get there from here and the answer is a soft yes we just have to work for it so um I would I would like for them all to be approved um and and that isn't to say there isn't a lot of transform 386 money out there but but all these things have to happen and we are never going to catch up and that's that's the other side for me is no matter how much investment we put on this we're not to solve the affordable housing issue part of it is is David's concern we also need to raise the wages so people can afford the homes that we're building now um so I I think there's a balance there uh we're not going to please everybody uh but but I do believe this is a a good start in the right direction for this money um that that has to be used somehow within the confines of all the rules of of ship and from from what I can see it's probably the the American Rescue plan money that kind of has a little bit of more wiggle room than the rest I don't know um but uh but but we I believe we need to spend this money somehow um and and I believe that investing in affordable housing um it it reduces crime rates uh provide stable housing sense of security sense of belonging and um uh and to some it includes support services that address those underlying conditions that that that uh that are linked to higher crime rates um so uh I I think this is important um uh the governor thinks it's important because he funded it uh the governor thinks uh um uh affordable housing is important because he executed the live local act uh uh so I'm going to put a little more Credence in how we spend this money and uh um and and kind of follow along with with what the state uh wants to do uh before we lose it and it goes to somebody else thank you chairman Vice chair Kent thank you chairman uh Dr bbau a couple of questions for you so I I hope I'm not confused by some of the comments I've heard from on the deis but maybe I am can the affordable housing development Gap funding can it be used to getting people back to work yes sir tell me how so as I as I mentioned my contact with the there's a ripple effect and so in terms of uh what's being proposed uh as by your by your team is that these units essentially leverage $107 million and outside investment into our community a point of clarification is that's not any local tax revenue this is federal income tax um uh is my understanding so with your that $107 million you're Le you're you're creating 600 new jobs I think the based on the Gap proposed by individuals who were not awarded um you're looking at I believe in the application was a little over $5 million outside investment so you're looking at $107 million in outside investment versus 5 million Dr bbom so sorry to to interrupt you um so the new jobs are the are the buildings that are being constructed yes sir right so there and then and then there's affordable housing for the individuals that are going to live in the building but it's not creating new jobs for the individuals that are living in the buildings that is correct okay I want to make sure that I I had that clear in my head because when I heard you know creating you know want to get people back to work or create new jobs I was like did I did I miss something in the memo where that we're not only going to create affordable housing but we're also going to create jobs for the people living inside of the affordable housing all right that's okay no it's it's it's okay I'm glad that we um we had that so the model that they use if I may is the construction jobs um you know and also when when the facility develops how the the community will develop around it and those jobs that are developed there right and these aren't permanent jobs in the sense that that I mean it's not like they're going to a place of business for years and years and years once the building is built done yes there's a percentage that are not permanent and that's in the equation yes sir so I heard my last question I believe is I I heard one of the speakers I thought I heard them say that the process was flawed and we need to B basically go back and re-evaluate the formula can you elaborate on how the process is flawed and if it is how if it is not how is it not flawed well I think that you know we we follow the policy of this Council who sets the direction for purchasing and procurements and your team did that here um we actually were Innovative in our approach which only a handful of counties have done in terms of combining different sources of funds to create a bigger pool to have impact in our community where we're looking at awarding 300 units instead of onesie twosies is what I'd call 20 here 15 there um so in doing so we followed the policies and procedures set forth by this Council so I didn't I didn't hear you say that you felt like the process was flawed I heard you say you follow you followed the policies and procedures that this Council set forth to spend these dollars and have the biggest most impactful um positive for our area yes sir that's going into it our goal is to get the uh most amount of units for the least amount of money thank you yes sir councilman Dempsey one we're we're in debate right is that where we are I know Jake's keeping score down there I don't know we um well I'm gonna go into just debate and let you guys know like Danny said I'm I'm against this as probably no surprise to you guys um again I keep uh on prior discussions from the Das we've talked about um issues like this and I'm I'm a big proponent of Laz Fair economics and capitalism uh this it was even brought up this isn't socialism it sounds like socialism it walks like it and quacks like it and I think this is a socialistic type of program I'm all about helping people in a pinch but there's got to be a limit um as far as the numbers that I'm finding um according to Zillow you know the average Dand apartment two-bedroom apartment everything is two-bedroom is 16 I'm sorry is500 a month orange City's 1,550 a month Deltona 1600 um Lake Helen 1269 and uh Daytona 1675 I'm not seeing anywhere on Zillow except new samna beach that's above 19 at or above 1900 so I don't know where those numbers are coming from um also looking at Florida housing data Clearing House another website and they've listed vucha County's average as being $1,400 a month for a two-bedroom house interestingly like I've said before we've got to let the fair the the free market dictate pricing like Dr bbau said it's supply and demand yes 100% supply and demand our demand has gone up since covid a lot of people left more restrictive states to the open door policies that Governor DeSantis put into place and because that we've had a lot of people move down here in the last two or three years again supply and demand because of the influx of population the demand is going up so the supply went down so the prices go up that's economics 101 and now these guys are saying the market is stabilized that's also a nice way of saying it's cooled off and it is cooling off we're about to get into a crash scenario Zillow has has labeled Orange City as in a cooling phase in the housing market the land is in a cooling phase Port Orange is in a cooling phase according to Zillow new samna beach is in a cooling phase uh Deltona is warm Lake Helen is warm Daytona is warm I didn't see oring in here actually but nowhere is it hot anymore I would say a couple years ago it was hot because the prices have gone up now they're coming down these prices are showing a trend coming down so why does the government why do we think that we're smarter than the free enterprise system and capitalism and things that our forefathers fought for as capitalist pigs I think we were called in the war we're capitalist this is a capitalist Nation so let's let capitalism do its thing and quit using taxpayers money to try and come up with a fix you know all we're doing is just again competing against priv industry we got landlords out there who are dealing with a 10% inflation increased property taxes increased Insurance on their rentals so of course the numbers are going to go up because the landlord's costs are going up but think about when you start creating all these affordable houses and the landlords are losing tenants then what's going to happen to the private sector we have no business putting our hands in the free market when it comes to this scenario and the other thing that I think is a paradox we've all at least recognized that we're for responsible growth we've all heard from conuence that there's too much growth slow it down traffic is horrendous listen in to Troy's car coming over here to the land in that one meeting I mean we got traffic it's backed up going eastbound off of Kepler on 44 it's backed up to the state college now it's like three traffic lights to get through there and we're offering incentives to bring more people here I'm just totally against this this doesn't make sense we got to slow down the growth and quit offering these incentives to increase density in our community that's already I think overdeveloped thank you councilman Santiago thank you Mr chairman um since we're kind of like in that mixed area I just wanted to ask Brad a question if I may real quick and then go into comments Brad the the the 7.84 6 million that we're proposing in this um item where's that money coming from state and federal grants no County dollars none zero if you'll see the6 million that this Council and others have invested Over The Last 5 Years 98% has been state and federal funds okay 2% from the general fund and if we don't approve this what happens to that money that would be direction from you if you want us to send it back or we could read advertise or you could um change the award on the board floor okay and the the the the money that is not County tax dollars that we're discussing it's it's guided for this particular purpose proposed in the agenda item yes sir to utilize only for those in in that area yes sir okay I I'll say that you know well you know Don you you always make good comments you know and I support your capitalistic approach to things too right but I think you know one element that's left out of that is the people right and you know we're a nation of giving and helping others when we can right and I certainly support uh hand UPS right and there's a fact that a lot of people are struggling in different categories in finding housing um we have $7.8 million here that were not assessed to our residents here as a tax collected by us um and staff did their job they did exactly what we told them to do um created this process they they utilize the procurement process to implement uh uh a program such as this um though I don't know Mr Meyers program it sounds like a good program itself um I I I don't know anything about it but just what I heard right now sounds good but the fact is Staff did their work here um and I think we ought to honor it um I understand that there's also potential more money coming forward that this particular program that Mr Meyer would like to uh come see to fruition would be available that's what I understand but um to send $7.8 million back and when we know people some people are struggling that would benefit from this I think is it's a disservice to our community I think we should approve this and acknowledge staff's good work at the direction that we provided thank you Mr chair thank you councilman um I I agree with you I want to I want to just make a couple points before we vote um I would I would like to see this approved and am I 100% comfortable with it no I'm not um I'm glad to hear that Brad said he will work with uh Jason on the um Falon head project I think the Fountain Head head project project Troy actually does bring permanent jobs because part of their project is is um is a job creation for uh for people that need jobs um so I'm glad to hear uh staff say that they will go to work with them my issue with this is that I I know we're all going to hear tomorrow on social media in an email that we're we're grasping uh socialism the problem is um Dawn for me is that housing doesn't follow supply and demand it's not a free market system it is so overburdened by government that the free market doesn't work in it we can reverse some of that in a local level and I think that we should um and I'll tell you what I mean by that in a minute so for me this money truly is Gap money it's money that fills the yeah because we I don't believe this is pulling people in from Maryland or New York for housing because they they've heard that well vucha county has given all this money away for affordable housing I think it's helping the people that live and work here right now it's it's the working people of uchia County who can't afford normal rates now maybe the maybe the market is stabilizing I've been waiting 30 years for it to stabilize and I just see this trend that keeps going up and up and up um the reason I say that housing is not a free market system is because housing is no longer shelter it's an investment everybody buys a house for an investment and they expect it to go up and up and so our whole economy is based on that and unless we want another 2008 crash we have to reverse that um slowly the house now we have Federal funding of mortgages we have um all this Government funding that our economy is set up on and so the government doesn't want housing to be a free market thing because then the then the economy crashes um we also have things that we can do here and the reason I say this is not a a free market system is just look at what government has done with zoning you can't go in and and build a duplex or a triplex in a in a neighborhood um cuz zoning doesn't allow it um we we can't let neighborhoods mature um because government doesn't allow it you can only have single family homes I um in in most areas and you can't have any uh commercial you can't have a a neighborhood store um in a in a um residential area that would prevent people from having to jump in their car to to go everywhere the Florida building code makes it incredibly expensive to build house how do you have affordable housing parking requirements are one of the biggest culprits for everything that's built you've got to have an enormous amount of parking um that's something that that we can work on the other thing is that there's a whole another industry here that government is stif I'm not talking about the county I'm talking about from DC on down um and that's incremental development there's an industry of young entrepreneurs that could go into a neighborhood and build an affordable house we took a we took a bite of that with accessory dwelling units and saying that people could could enclose a garage and rent it out put a mother-in-law Suite in their backyard and rent it out it helps them especially older people to supplement a a uh limited income and it helps the people starting out so well I would like to work on all of those things it's not going to happen tomorrow and so this is the Gap that I believe is needed to serve the people that live here right now that can't afford it I don't I don't know where Zillow gets their numbers um I know I talked to people my own children who are looking for for houses to rent and it's it's insane so um while we while we need to make it a Level Playing Field and bring in free market sources we don't have that right now it's almost uh a monopoly so I hope that we will approve this I hope that staff will go back and work with uh uh with Jason both the other uh projects that are represented here um so I I'm I'm going to vote for it and I just urge the rest of the council to do the same councilman Robbins thank you chairman I think we should uh make it notable that tax dollars are still tax dollars no matter what level they are on um and and the whole moral this story is is to become less of a I don't like using this term but Nanny state but uh at the end of the day we're handing out money when in my opinion when we haven't established um why we need affordable housing you know and I compare these situations to uh you know trying to solve uh pick one climate change you know here we have uh homeless veterans and here if we throw tax money uh you know uh uh give the government tax money uh to try to change the temperature of the world you know give me a break uh if we weren't doing so much of this in so many other areas I'd be more inclined uh you know to to to do this but I I just I'm kind of with Don on this you know uh this isn't sustainable you know we're asking ourselves why things aren't affordable we're taking land off the market in Valia County and buying it up governments in the real estate business there's no land why do we think housing is expensive right our kids aren't going to be able to afford to live here our grandkids aren't going to be afford to afford to live here we've created a system that is government dependency through and through and we have to look at this um we do a lot we do a lot um Council I I know if I'll be able to support this thanks councilman Dempsey I wasn't going to say anything else but I had to respond to a couple of your statements Jeff chairman um well if if you're saying that this is not bringing new people into the community then where are these people that are going to take these houses are they living in the woods right now because I think not you I think later on in your statement you said that these are the people that're going to move out of the expensive rental and move into the affordable rentals all right now let's look at the landlord who just lost a tenant what's going to happen to him how's he going to pay those doubled Insurance costs that he was paying or the higher property taxes that were creating by this program contributing to higher taxes for these landlords through programs like this and then how's that was his investment that's his retirement so now we're again the government is competing with the private sector and to say that this has nothing to do with the free market and there's a lot of people ask Donald Trump how he got his money through real estate there's a lot of wealthy people out there who made it in this country based on real estate flippers uh in real everybody is to say that real estate is not a factor in a free market is I think disingenuous um and to take these to take the private landlord's tenants away from him yet make him expect them to pay taxes and expect all this increased cost to be just borne by him I guess is kind of it's unfair it's almost like a Robin Hood type of thing where we're going to take tax money from him and compete against him give it to the poor and Pat ourselves on the back thinking oh we're doing something great for the community yeah we're helping one segment but we're punishing another segment of the community and it's not Fair it's not a government function and again this is going to draw more people to already overcrowded Community Jeff you're you're the first proponent of talking about overdevelopment and responsible growth this is going to bring in countless more issues with traffic potentially flooding I know you blame a lot of the flooding issues on overdevelopment well we're going to have a 300 and some unit uh affordable housing complex right down here on 44 you don't think that's going to add to the traffic problem out there on Kepler and 44 of course it is and there's flooding in that area so is this going to add to the flooding I don't know I'm not an expert but listening to you in the past you attribute a lot of the flooding issues to development so we're adding just a bigger carrot to dangle for more development and I I just I can't see how we can in one breath say responsible growth responsible development but yet add all these incentive incentives to bring more growth and more development and that's why I'm a hard no thank you Jeff thanks thank you um I'm going to reply and I'll let everybody know Don is my friend I I like him a lot so this is not personal it's it's it's two different perspectives coming in and I understand your your argument first you know who are these people that are going to come it's the people that are living three four and and five people in a house several families um because they can't afford it on their they can't afford to have a private home to rent with their children it's it's single mothers and single dads that are now living in our community paying 50 60 65% of their income for rent and they're eating crap because there's no money left over for food they they can't afford to go to the doctor their kids don't go to the dentist it's um we do have to work on on um raising income levels in in the county I I agree with that but I don't believe that this is uh some giant draw from every other state to come here I think it's a I think it fills a gap for the current extremely uh extreme shortage in in housing in our community um and you're you're right I do do you know I I'm constantly talking about responsible growth and the flooding I don't this is not that these these These are um projects that are built where there's already infrastructure where there's already storm water where there's already um uh sewage and um is it is it growth yeah it it is growth it's the most responsible kind I have to look at each one and say what is responsible I'm not just no growth we can't build any more houses um we need we need to build some houses and we need to build a whole lot more commercial facilities for for jobs and job creation um so I think I'm being consistent I understand your argument um but the problem is we have a huge um housing shortage and the people that already live here in our County you can talk to some of the people in the audience that work with with these people um that are living um in in government facilities or living in um squalor trying to make ends meet and um we until we change the system until we get government out of this with the way that we Finance housing with zoning with parking with all the things I already mentioned it's we need to do both this is a gap for for me that helps those people uh councilman Johansson thank you sir um one of the things that that I think important is we have excuse me we have X amount of people coming into this state of year SSI 275,000 uh I think that's a little overdoing it but maybe not so when these people move into affordable housing and there was that gap for the uh the the person who rented out to those people I think there's somebody coming in right behind them to move into that place so uh I'm not too concerned about rental units going empty based on the amount of rental units that are going up uh in this County uh number two one of the things that that I'm very critical of uh is is the live local act because I think our our tax base has to be divided amongst industrial commercial and residential units and so as far as I'm concerned the the commercial/industrial areas that are now up for grabs for affordable housing uh worries me a little bit uh none of these projects are in in industrial is that correct Brad I don't I don't believe they are I believe they're probably close to zoned as they should be in the they're not using the live local act they're not using the live local act so so that for me to put to put affordable housing that we can vote on that we can make a difference on uh and approve right here and and two other that are good ideas that we're going to try to work on um uh that are not live local act this puts more affordable housing where we not want it and not where we don't want it so I'm a big fan of that as well because if we I'm not saying if we don't do this I don't know but 300 units of affordable housing we could say no to this send the money back walk around like good Republicans and say we did it and tomorrow Jason Meyer will go to an industrial area or somebody else and build 700 units and we got to sit back and watch it happen and go well there goes our industrial property and and our and our tax revenue for the future so uh I'm not saying this is what I want to do but this is the best of the worst maybe in my situation and um uh I'm I'm going to support it for that amongst other reasons thank you one last thing Mr I may councilman Santiago I I just want to add all all good comments and I'm glad we're having this this this dialogue we've had it several times actually in the same genre I guess but I guess the the fact is no one has disputed the fact that the affordability crisis exists out there it exists in valua County this is a tool that will additionally help to mitigate that crisis in a small scale but and it's dollars that are not being assess to uh through the county so thank you Mr chair thank you Carissa Carissa's not here oh who's G to who's going to call the role Mr Kent yes Mr Reinhardt yes Mr Robbins no Mr Santiago yes Mr Dempsey no Mr Johansson yes Mr Brower yes 5 to two so the um motion to make the approved uh award for affordable housing passes 5 to2 thank you great great discussion yes Tim I'm sorry to disappoint you but I'm hearing from the rest of the council that it's it's time for a break um so we will pardon me the presentation we will uh adjourn it's 12 o' we'll we'll join adjourn until 1232 yeah be here for the next e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e [Music] [Music] he [Music] he [Music] welcome to the vucha County council meeting the meeting will begin in 10 minutes [Music] he [Music] he [Music] he [Music] a [Music] [Music] w [Music] w [Music] w [Music] [Music] w [Music] welcome to the vucha County council meeting the meeting will begin in 5 minutes [Music] a [Music] y oh [Music] [Music] n [Music] welcome to the vucha County council meeting the meeting will begin in 2 minutes [Music] yeah definitely make okay we will resume the meeting with Tim Bailey and item five yes good afternoon Mr chair honorable County council members uh I'm Tim Bailey V County Parks Recreation and culture director today before you you have the Hunden strategic Partners Sports Complex feasibility study now if you recall we did pull out the Motocross we spoke about that earlier so today it's just going to be about the sports complex and the BMX uh today I have Rob Hunden and Lexi cuff and I'll bring Rob hundon to speak to topic thank you sir um um and do we have the presentation here boom look at that all right good afternoon all I hope you enjoyed the lunch we did um so yeah we're pleased to be here today to uh just deliver the results of the uh the um Sports The Outdoor Sports Complex and the BMX component of the project study um so uh that was the primary question what's the feasibility of that on a specific site and so in order order to get there we we looked at uh obviously where you are now in terms of supply and demand um how you stack up um kind of your locational attributes and other attributes what are the opportunities out there and then how do we how do we get there um during the course of the project and the study um our team really interviewed all kinds of um stakeholders including elected officials staff um Sports Representatives those that manage facility tournament operators and other stakeholders um and you can see a a list of the of the folks and the organizations there on the screen um in terms of the SWAT analysis for um really both of these projects they sort of um divvy up a little bit there are some similarities and differences but obviously in terms of strengths you're uh like most places in Florida you're growing uh quite rapidly and so that always is um beneficial in terms of a supply and demand uh situation for new new uh facilities especially you sports facilities when you have more families um in the area um you have a generally centrally located um location here in Florida which makes it easy to access um strong local and Regional demand for sports that continues to increase you have county-owned land uh which is uh always a benefit to the situation um and then you've actually got uh proven demand through your existing BMX facility um that also because of its distance from this site makes it just far enough to make it uh a potential opportunity according to um the BMX Florida or you uh uh uh BMX USA so in terms of opportunities we do see the opportunity for uh what I would call sort of a metrowide uh tournament grade outdoor and and maybe future potential indoor but uh at the first uh an outdoor facility um uh this would compl Regional facilities that would host larger uh Regional and National tournaments what we're looking at here is something that would be more to serve local needs and countywide needs and maybe some uh uh easy drive time around but we're not necessarily trying to do something that's going to be um you know state or national level with 16 plus fields and that kind of thing um uh we're looking for uh private sector Partnerships with tournament operators uh recommending a new BMX facility to to expand the footprint and increase uh tournament capabilities as part of um as part of the the growth of BMX in the state um there is some um commercial development um potential in surrounding sites and this should increase the quality of life for residents in terms of weaknesses actually it's a weakness that becomes a strength for the project um right now there's limited outdoor fields for local use for both play and practice um in terms of the tourism side of it and um the benefits of that um in the Western and Southwestern portion of the county there are actually fewer uh hotels uh there so some of this impact in fact a good chunk of this impact uh would probably spill over into seol County um uh but again we're not necessarily doing this for tourism we're um the focus was really more on uh for County and local area use um and then in terms of threats um there are some other much larger uh Sports complexes being proposed um in several areas to the North and South um along the east coast of Florida none of those have been financed and and all of those would be quite large and would not be really competing directly with us we would be again looking at something that's going to serve more local areas um in terms of the Youth Sports um you do have um the acreage on the site for uh something of this site however because of um the water and some of the other things um we're recommending some overlays where you have these sort of combination Fields where you can have rectangular fields in the outfields of the softball baseball fields uh to really kind of make the site mostly optimized I ideally you would have much more space to to spread out and have individual Fields but this allows you to sort of pick um the use um during different times of the year uh for those Flex fields um in terms of tournament needs um you're going to be right in there in that uh sweet spot for smaller tournaments that eight turfield um tournaments um in terms of supply and demand um there's really not a lot around here that is going to be uh directly competitive and so this does fill a gap and a void and an opportunity uh and yet doesn't sort of try to step up into that level where a lot of these others are really trying to compete U for those much larger events um and then of course we looked at case studies and that flexibility um and really Nimble management to make sure that um the the fields are getting used as as often as possible but then can um really get all those groups in there that want to use them when they can uh throughout the day and the evening is going to be uh important for really optimizing use and benefiting the local uh citizens um in terms of BMX um the current track and um Dayton as I mentioned sort of proves out of the demand level that is is there and in speaking with um usab BMX there is a market opportunity to grow that Supply in vucha County at that about 35 mile drive or 35 minute drive from the existing site and so that's just far enough to sort of kind of put it into their to their ideal of their master plan for um having 30 plus of these around the state um and then um in terms of a premier racing facility uh that's the ideal is to have a premier BMX uh race facility in vucha county that offers that more highend experience with some support amenities and um a partnership with usabmx um so um anything that I missed there Lexi before I go into the next one okay very good so in terms of our recommendations what we're looking at is uh again those um uh lighted uh artificial tur Fields eight of those that have that overlay that I spoke of and we'll show you some graphics of those with um seating for 800 um and then um those grass surfaces for those fields to Overlay as well as then the outdoor BMX track and then there's a future possibility of an indoor uh facility but we didn't really focus on that today is that's sort of a phase 2 future down the road um this is this proposed site at Bennett Park as you can see and then we've overlaid on this slide and I can just sort of go back and forth there so you can see that's the same place um those overlay Fields um that can be both the rectangular fields and the softball baseball fields um the future indoor facility is is uh suggested to be sided to the south of end of the site and the BMX course is right there in the the lower middle left um and then we have the pure grass fields on the lower right um so that's the site um in terms of market demand um what you're going to see here is that you do have a number of outdoor um uh facilities um however uh most of them are relatively small in terms of the number of things that they offer so the largest is oron Beach uh Beach Sports Complex and that gets the most visitors um and it has of course the most uh fields and diamonds they are grass not Turf um that is by far the largest and it falls down pretty quickly from there um so we've got a much uh a lot of smaller and really if you look at the visitation and the visits from over a 100 miles it drops down pretty quickly after those first um five really that get over about 200,000 per year um and in terms of indoor there's uh you know really not much in the local area um in terms of more than three basketball or volleyball courts in a single facility in terms of regional Indoor Sports Supply um if you're going UH 60 plus miles out we have some you can see of course um that there are some big ones out there of course ESPN Wild World of Sports visa center is the big one as well as the pick ball uh Sports Complex in Deerfield Beach which of course is quite a bit uh farther south uh but these are all the larger ones around the state and as you can see here on this map uh most of those we've got one under construction in Panama City Beach uh area but most of them are in Central Florida um so those are the larger Indoor Sports tournament um uh facilities that I think you're going to have to be very mindful of uh when looking to to add anything in terms of regional outdoor supply um you've got bomba which is in Sanford so not that far away um and uh that's over a million visits per year and 51% of those come from over a 100 miles away so they're doing some serious tourism there the seminal Soccer Complex does some as well then you have the UA Space Coast complex in Via West and then ESPN wild word of sports which is of course the Kingpin um in Florida nearly 3 million visitors with 85% of those coming from over 80 over a 100 miles away so definitely drawing a lot of tourists from around um the state and the nation um so a lot of these larger Regional facilities that's what they're going to be going after as you can see most of these um uh actually are grass uh as opposed to uh Synthetic Turf uh but they but diamonds is the real sort of all around the state and you can see that there's sort of that nice linkage at the Orange City project site uh right between um Daytona and Orlando so um I think uh that sort of lays that out and then I think I feel like I've talked for a while so I'm going to turn it over to Lexi to to keep going yeah and then just to kind of run through some of the major conversations that we had with tournament operators what do they typically look for um this one highlights baseball tournaments it was noted that it's not only a great local demand but there also is that Regional demand for either ancillary sites that do have baseball diamonds to act as kind of a complimentary facility to a boomba that has those 15 diamonds um so being able to act as a player in that sense for the regional and larger tournaments but then also really catering to those local needs um turf was definitely noted as a great positive especially with the weather unpredictability in Florida uh rain delays and weather constraints are definitely something that grass and natural Fields do require a lot more maintenance and upkeep but a lot more unpredictability as well um there was noted that there are a handful of tournaments that are being put on by UA within the Valia County Market um one being the one at new Suna uh sport Beach Sports complex um but also quite a few so very familiar with the area and just noted that strength of accessibility um there similar to the baseball soccer tournaments also noted as a significant demand locally um as you can see this kind of graph on the right here breaks down what the use type would be so at our recommendation of about 12 Fields those eight turf fields um that are the multi-purpose but then also those four rectangle grass fields gets you to that primarily local um and it would be able to achieve some Regional tournaments but again like Rob mentioned really catering to that local demand there um and then kind of segueing segueing into our demand and financial projections so in terms of event projections in terms of the kind of overall complex with BMX with the traditional Outdoor Sports taking a look at the Outdoor Sports first and foremost so projected to host around 16 events in year one and then reaching uh 35 events upon stabilization which is in year five so a lot of these facilities take a few years to really ramp up and get secur during their operation so reaching that kind of Maximum ability of that 35 events upon stabilization for the traditional Sports which would be about 34 and 74 event days um just based on the tournament but also event activity and then the BMX facility is pro is projected to primarily host those practice days throughout the year so upon stabilization about 150 days open to the public with the option to kind of pay a one-time a one-time fee uh using the facility like a day pass for fitness center so to speak um or having that kind of season shareholder pass so being able to pay a one-time fee for yearr round use um really catering to those local needs in that market there and then based on those conversations with USA BMX the regional and National BMX tournaments would be or larger events so to speak would be three to four times per year um they do rotate throughout the state and they have a plan to continue expansion of BMX fac facilities throughout Florida because of the demand um so that being noted as a big strength there as well and then in terms of attendance projections so Rental hours during the week is projected to play that key role um generating revenue for the facility but also accommodating that local demand there uh the projected number of total rentable hours by surface type um is shown in that utilization projections there um and then average attendance by event type we use kind of industry standard but also understanding what those local and Regional Tournament landscape really looks like so year five that stabilization year being around 590,000 or nearly 600,000 visitors um to just the outdoor traditional sports complex and then taking a look at BMX so in terms of what that local demand would look like and then also those season passholders um based on conversations with other facilities we projected that a season passholder would have to go to the facility roughly 19 times throughout the year to break even on their uh onetime fee versus paying that $6 daily rate um and then all of those kind of assumptions and projections flow into our proforma so we analyzed uh the traditional Outdoor Sports Complex separately from the BMX just to show you how they operate a little bit differently um as you can see here there's a slight net operating deficit for the outdoor sports complex um I'm not sure if you want to kind of touch on the fact that this is typical especially for a local uh local use catered Sports Complex like most Parks and Rec style facilities even though this would be a premier facility uh for that um they do tend to um have an operating deficit just like most Parks and Rec facilities do however we actually have this coming pretty close to breaking even which would be you know almost 100% cost recovery from a parks and wreck perspective if if you want that route there are also of course um um like sfc who run these facilities based in Florida they do know what they're doing they do charge a decent fee to do that but uh their goal is of course to maximize uh utilization so um you have those Cho choices down the road and then taking a look at the BMX here so it is typical especially for these facilities in Florida to operate at a profit we have a a slight profit here in year five at about 24,000 um and this is based on those Revenue projections and expenses there is opportunity to potentially increase that Revenue depending on whether or not concessions are outsourced or if that's something that becomes inhouse um that's something that was noted by usab BMX but they typically partner with the larger events and they'll take a portion of the rider entry fees but also that concession um and parking Revenue there but looking at um our economic fiscal unemployment impact So based on the attendance and overall generation do you want to talk about the day trips and room nights yeah absolutely so uh for most of these it's going to be mostly day trips uh a minority of folks um would be coming for overnight stays uh or long enough distance um that they would be uh overnighters and so we've looked at those that would stay in uh in hotels um but again that's going to be a minority of the of the folks and then what we do is we break that down into five different spending categories from lodging retail restaurant transportation and other and assign spending uh to those in terms of net new spending to Valia County and so if we uh look at that on the next slide uh what you see is that there's uh by stabilization you get to about uh 145 million in annual net new uh direct spending to the county from this because of the location of this um near a node of hotels that is outside the county uh in a different County uh seal County um a lot of that overnight spending uh will ACR to to seal uh versus you all but again that's not really the focus uh is our understanding of this this is more again quality of life fre you all but there is a significant uh impact to you community-wise and just quality of life over time so we see it here of uh over 30 years of over half a billion dollars um in terms of direct net new spend and then if we go to the next slide uh we have the summary there of uh the development cost is looking at a about 4142 million based on our estimates from you know today's dollars um uh a good chunk of that would be spent in the county but not all of it um and some of that would be sourced from outside of the County uh sales and other taxes generated uh both from the construction and the 30-year operations look to Total about $4.3 million in uh local capturable taxes so um that I believe is the end oh sorry the cost there that I already sort of gave that away but this was the cost estimate on that on that uh that layout that we showed you earlier is about 41 A5 million and I think there we have it so happy to answer any questions or I'll make you answer the questions thank you um let's take uh questions first we've got three names up are they all for questions mine are okay uh Vice chair Troy K thank you chairman and and Tim maybe you can come up as well because you might be able to help with of these so the total I just want to make sure I've got this right the total to build this out is $41.5 million okay and um you know for the West Side representatives and Mr Johansson and also our chairman I I'm when you when you speak if you don't mind telling me what kind of um ask you've heard from your constituents for this because I I mean I I know and maybe this is normal because I don't represent Orange City but I I've not had anybody ask for this from me so now to to staff or the consultant um is the idea to charge anybody that's going to use the facilities yes there would be a permit fee for each use whether it be a lighted field it's a little more than a daily use fee but there would be a use fee per hour of each usage gotcha so I'll say that in a minute um so we'll have other ball fields from municipalities nearby you know maybe Delona or Orange Orange City themselves or or um the land where there is no fee you know they can just go and hit a ball and and play on their field at no charge so right let me explain that a little bit so if you as a father and you bring your son out you want to hit a ball on one of the fields as long as it's not permitted in other words a little league group hasn't paid the fee then it's free that's correct correct um and you know the BMX I'm looking here I see uh grass fields and a multi-purpose field and uh future indoor facility and and that's not part of the cost by the way 41.5 million no and then and then a BMX course and it makes me think about something councilman Dempsey always says about competing with that private sector you know the other BMX complexes that are that are that are around all of them are us the ones in that map we had with all of those no no the the the we have another BMX course in in Strickland park right right I know I know about that one I know that's us that's the only one we have in County that's correct okay okay so um I'm I'm anxious to hear about the the need from the community a what how much they're asking for this um I do believe that it's part of of government's job let me just say and we can start actually I'm going to stop because this is questions and I'm going to follow the process my comments will come later thank you councilman Santiago thank you Mr chairman um you proposed Turf can you tell me why I'm not adversary to Turf but tell me your methodology behind that and why it's that good mhm yeah especially from a usage Pro P projection um and based on that demand the ability with Turf is you are able to play in any weather in any constraint and then it is you have the ability to program it during the week and then also having tournaments on the weekend A lot of the time with the natural grass fields they do kind of require that off time for maintenance watering them making sure they're not being torn up basically um so it just just allows for more usage throughout the week but also the tournaments and then with the weather tournament operators really do look for it um when they're when they are looking to choose a facility to host a tournament at um especially just with Central Florida and the weather unpredictabilities that give us a competitive advantage over say over across the river for the natural Fields yes yeah so bomba does have turf fields so they do have the the turf outfields um but also than the clay INF Fields but that also I think provides a competitive advantage to just a regular you know local parks and wreck facility that doesn't have that same offering or that level of quality um but also then being able to be that off-site host for those larger tournaments when they do need some extra fields in order to accommodate all the team demand because right now they are turning teams away okay so um would you say that the turf concept is part of part of their competitive advantage of why they're successful um yeah I would say so okay um did you look at any um emerging uh sports activities or other things um um I hate to be a follower I like to be a leader uh and are there any opportunities over there that maybe came on your radar and can you tell us what and why where we're at with those yeah we um we spoke to uh obviously a lot of dedicated ter tournament operators but then also hearing how they will program Fields let's say during uh a baseball offseason or not peak season so with those rectangle field abilities you could do soccer but then you could also do flag football you could do lacrosse you could do things that don't have as many I would say Supply available to them on a year round basis so being able to really have that flexibility and I guess it's not even just a dual um ability to have more than one sport but Ault multitude of sports um and being able to really program it on a year round basis and not to get Sports specific but I will um what I've learned and I've had the opportunity to go visit a couple of facilities actually one I shouldn't say a couple um Cricket seems to be getting very popular um and um I think in particularly Fort lale yeah I don't play cricket but I mean in Fort lale they have a pretty big successful facility from what I understand that is going to soon be hosting a national or worldwide event are you familiar with that well I'm familiar that Cricket is be you is still a bit of a niche uh that's growing uh around the country um obviously it has adherence from around the world es especially um uh South Asia um and so as those communities continue to grow um the demand for that grows uh it's a completely specific style of um surface that you know is not necessarily going to be compatible with a lot of these other uh surface types so I think you'd want to have a really strong feeling that it was going to be full consistently to develop um a a Cricut pitch um that you would want to use on a consistent basis but um did you hear anything else Lexi during your um during your analysis I mean if if you're looking to do I think more regulated cricket matches so to speak then it would kind of require that specific surface but if you are just wanting to accommodate local demand I have we have heard in conversations that they're they are able to play kind of on that typical soccer surface it might not just be you know regulated or preferred but it's definitely something that wouldn't be turned away and my last question for now Mr chair um would would this be capable or is it is is in your programming analysis is it contemplating multi-day events yes I'll stop for now Mr chair thank you thank you councilman Joe Hanson thank you sir um are the are your diagrams are are those um to scale they they appear to be kind of handdrawn so I was curious the the multi-purpose Fields you have two baseball fields and a soccer field on one field are they are they a scale well U they generally are yes I mean he knows the mentions uh convergence design Drew those and so they you know that's what will fit on that site got it and and are those are those fields um um are they major league fields are they softball fields are they t-ball fields that makes a lot of difference to me okay yeah I don't have the exact um uh Dimensions handy but we can get those to you yeah so can I add that yeah go for it sorry about that so um the way we we would design these fields if we got to that point uh is there'll be the key word is flexibility so uh because different age brackets have a different home run uh to first base uh distance pitching okay home run fence lines all different so these fields would be able to accommodate each one of those different age brackets there's pegs in the in the field in the turf and our staff would modif those pitching Mounds base pass home run fence lines that kind of so so when we're talking about you know I got a kid that plays baseball I had a kid that plays soccer uh throughout the state and and one of the one of the issues is we talked about Turf turf's great well you can't make a major league baseball field into a Little League field into a te- ball field if you have turf and maintain the same clay surroundings and then all by the way successfully make it a competitive soccer field when you're overlaying it on a Turf baseball field with Clay um so so you're trying to stuff 10 lb worth of sports into a 5 lb sock is is my fear and and the reason I'm saying this is because again every summer all we did was complain about that stuff um Additionally the the I I love Turf because you put it down you forget about it basically and it drains well uh I hate Turf because in the summer it's about 20° hotter on the field and you got kids dropping you got CLE smelting at 140 bucks a shot so um uh is the return on the investment worth the the the kids passing out and and the cleat smelting I don't know so let me let me add to that a little bit so uh we we actually went to buma U me and Suzanne and a compliment of Staff folks went to booma they took a take a look at their fields over there right uh met with their leadership out there talked about some of the things that you're talking about right cuz the Heat Is For Real it's it's not make believe or it's it's for real I mean when you walk on that field and we did and was middle of the summer uh you can feel the heat all the way up to your kneecap you know on on how hot that field is when you're walking out on that artificial turf uh when you're on a natural grass it's different right um however I did ask U the The Operators what would you rather have yeah the and and I thought natural turf was going to be natural grass was going to be their answer and before I got the sentence out it was artificial turf hands down if we had to do it all over again it would all be artificial turf so now if you talk to the users they probably be just the opposite where you know they'd rather play in the natural grass than they would on an artificial surface but um uh people have learned to play on both um you could definitely have a lot more activity from tournament play on an artificial turf than you can on a natural Turf so there are some benefits there on on why bomba went to a hybrid which is what we're kind of proposing here is it's a hybrid right because you still got all those natural Turf right across the street right so it's it's kind of a hybrid right good um and and uh a question for later research um I would like to know what the injury rates are at New Smyrna turf soccer field versus every other City that probably uses uh um grass because I having having watched that for six years with my kid somebody always got hurt in new Smur and the same teams were playing equally as hard on grass so uh that that's something we we just need to think about um and and lastly 41.5 million do I guess that's a question thank you Troy thank you chairman you're welcome just a couple questions I think Jake just cleared up one for me when Santiago was talking about Turf I'm thinking natural grass Turf is is grass but for our purposes when you say Turf you're talking about artificial turf synthetic that's right called grass natural grass okay that's right and and just as an aside there there are some places that will set up actual sprinkler systems to sprinkle their synthetic uh during you know the hottest times of the day to cool P them down um so that they can still use them during the afternoon but there are some places even in Kansas that they'll just not allow like if it's 90 plus degrees they won't allow usage just you know during the hottest two hours of the day but they'll still get their mornings a late afternoons nights and dark times so it still will have more ability to be used and if you can sort of manage the heat they also have cooling beads that they can that they've started to develop to put into the the Synthetic Turf um so again all those things would be you know more in the weeds uh no pun intended to to look into as you're getting into the design of this and just to add bomba does also they'll start their tournaments especially in the hotter months at 7 a.m. and the teams don't have a problem with it because they get that cooler weather and they are able to then continue to play to the early afternoon sometimes if it's too hot and if kids are dropping obviously that's not the goal of a tournament so they'll stop play and then with those lighted fields have the ability to then resume when it's night time or when it's cooler out interesting I I know when when I was at University of Florida it was artificial and I would go out in the field it was miserable just as Jake said but then when we R won a national championship coach had come in and ripped all that out and put natural grass in so maybe some of its uh preference you've you've gone back and forth a little bit on um this is the primary focus is for local needs and to answer your question Troy um it's not been a huge thing that constituents have asked me about but it's been a consistent thing especially from a group of very a Avid athletes in ar City Delan and Deltona area uh which is uh West fuia so uh it's it's not something I hear a lot but there are are um it is an item that I think has some public interest you're focusing on serving our the the local base the valua base but yet you've said a couple times we're going to lose some money because people will go to seol County because there's not enough motels here um I'm wondering if in your um I would like for this to to bring people in from seol and and whatever so they can get on sun rail and and ride here uh and play cricket um in your experience do you when something like this is built does it draw hotels and motels to be built in the area have you ever seen that yeah it's funny you should ask that so we do a lot of these studies all over the place um so to I guess answer your first question obviously it's more of a policy decision how you want to orient the usage but typically it's local use during the week and then tournament usage for farther away people coming in from farther away during the weekends um obviously if that's your idea then you do want to induce demand from out of County and you will get it from out of County it's just that that particular site is much closer to a not of hotels in seminal County than it is to a note of hotels here uh as it relates to this um facility um drawing or inducing the development of a new hotel certainly U proximity Is key uh the number of room nights is key and then also does it like how does it work seasonality wise well luckily seasonality is not as big of an issue here for you as it would be for us in the midwest or something or we're doing a a study up in Prince William County Virginia right now where that's their very question if we build this you know eightc Court indoor facility how many new hotels will be built and basically you know for that particular thing we said well it would support basically 90 more hotel rooms in terms of if you Divi up those room nights over the year however we know that those room nights actually happen on weekends um and so there may be um there there may be the possibility at least with that facility up there that it might induce more than that here it's a little more modest because we're dealing with a complex that just Rises to the level of being competitive for tournaments and so it's kind of a tweener as opposed to something that's more like you know a a big Regional or or Statewide National play I understand thank you good good explanation a I'm I'm a little bit confused on the BMX that's that does seem like more of a local draw and you approach it that way but it said I think I read that BMX uh would be open for practice for use four days a week um which would be 208 days but then you say it's it's 100 50 days what's that Gap there yeah so that is to be conservative in terms of our attendance projections conservative consultant just to not overstate you're going to attract two million people to this facility year round where it is that's kind of the the base case so to speak in terms of that local demand of what could be accomplished but you also then want to factor in when there is the need for maintenance or during holidays weeks if if the facility is closed um that it's not going to be prom to be open 365 days a year okay MH all right thank you and then my last question is really not for yall and maybe it's not for right now but the biggest consideration for me is is going to be $41.5 million will you at some point during this discussion do you have any ideas about uh funding that well of course it would be you know Council what we end up Council decision um there 's multiple um mechanisms for financing these facilities um I think we're in a unique situation here where we have Echo dollars to support um outdoor recreation facilities um for our County other you know um municipalities and counties around the the country have used bonding or used a percentage of the TDC dollars um but I think Eko excuse me um that could be used in this case through the direct County expenditure program okay thank you uh councilman Dempsey yeah um I guess I'm want to First address your concern Troy um I mean I bet you don't hear a lot from your constituents um in Orman because you guys have 25 outdoor grass fields and diamonds baseball diamonds whereas on the West Side here in D land we only got seven so you got more than three times what we have right and and Orman paid for it okay good do we know what they and I'm I just want to say CU because well I I I I voted for a lot of that so Orman Orman you know let let the rubber meet the road and said hey we will we will fund this and they did I applaud you for that too that's that's great because you're meeting the demand of the youth over there and I'm just when this came up like I told you guys over a year ago my son used to practice little league in storm waterer retain ditches because there wasn't enough ball fields for them to practice on and I've had the the coach The head coach of the Delan dogs tell me yes I did in the [Laughter] snow um but they practice on uh pastures I mean there's nowhere for their football program I these are a lot of underprivileged kids and who've got nowhere to practice it's a wonderful program so we're left over here to play in storm water ditches and pastures for those Sports and you know we have no problem spending 1015 million a year on SunRail or the vot Tran issue that's coming up we subsidize all that but I guess we have heartburn when it comes to subsidizing youth activities to keep them out of the basements of their house from playing Nintendo all day and getting them out being little kids that we kind of grew up as um the other thing and I I you all you may not know but I know staff knows and I think hyunda knows I disagree with your numbers you guys have caused me a lot of heartache over this Motocross facility with the $10.3 million price tag um I don't I don't I can't believe this would be $41 million so I'd like to know where you guys got 41 million for instance how does it cost $25 million to build a BMX track yeah so so our um design consultant converges to sign uh prepared these numbers and so we would leave it to them and and I would say everybody thinks um that things should cost less than they do these days so every meeting that we go to um people are shocked that things cost you know double what they thought they should but I mean it's just the reality yeah obviously you're going to find out when you have it figured out um there's also a lot of water there so you may actually have to bring in I mean I'm not a hydrologist I'm not anything but um I would say this actually may be a this might be a low number I don't know this might be a low number two and a half million I mean if if you get into having to raise the the level of the the dirt and the ground just to keep it from being uh in the in the water table how how big is the BMX track I don't have the dimensions they're about what 50 yards in length by about 10 yards wide yeah or I mean sorry about 15 ft wide 5 yards wide and it's 2 and a half million to Pal dirt we're talking about a premier facility that would be sanctioned by uh usabmx so they have their requirements and so listen we're obviously we all hope it's less and and you know that that would be you know we always say the phase the next phase after the feasibility study is the business planning phase where you get into a lot more detail and and sausage making on the business plan and so I think that that's a great set questions to ask how can we contain costs on these kinds of things but you're the expert well I'm not a cost expert but you threw this number out here I didn't throw it out there it's our subcontractor who put that number there but your name's attached to this proposal okay $2.5 million to do a 50 yard by 15 foot wide run of dirt is what you're saying I'm just letting you know I mean our our I mean I where did you guys come up with 20 $24.5 million for eight soccer fields where did that where's your quotes where's your estimates so those are based on comps and when you're doing lighted synthetic Fields uh those are they years ago they were at least $2 million a field and these are very complex Fields actually because they're overlay Fields with both um the the rectangular field over the the baseball softball fields you've got Synthetic Turf you've got lights you've got you know it's all specialized um 10 years ago it was $2 million a field so I'm not surprised that we're over $3 million for a complicated field now so do you know what Orman paid to have their fields built in what year I don't know did you look at any comparables of any of these facilities to see what they paid to have them built like I said our subcontractor would look at that and and give you those those numbers based on what's being what's being priced and built in today's Marketplace so the answer is no you did not I'm not saying that I'm saying that um construction costs and just general inflation have gone up 40% since covid so whatever your basis is I mean you can you're going to go into the marketplace whenever you go into the marketplace and you're going to get your bids and I mean I would invite you to to dive deeper into that in the next phase if you believe this is a worthy project to see if you can get it figured out but the feasibility study was not to do a down and dirty on the cost it was to give you a highlevel uh order of magnitude number so that you could start debating whether or not it was worth a public policy decision to invest this type of dollars into this type of facility okay so where did you get the the four grass rectangular fields $750,000 to plant grass on an acre of land my answer is going to be the same for all of your questions so well you you understand my concern sir is that your price tag of 41 million is scaring these guys and may have a ripple effect of not have of this being turned down not because of a lack of need but because of the sticker shock of $41.5 million do based on numbers that we really don't have any what I see as any type of rationalized basis these are just numbers out of the air and not really based on anything in my opinion well then that's your opinion I appreciate it um all I know is that what I I would love to be the guy that that said this is what it'll cost and you got it for less but I can tell you that in every study that we've done over the last 5 years when they actually go out and get the numbers unfortunately our numbers are too low so I we try to hit it as best we can based on very little information on a on a Fe feasibility study that was really focused on market and financial feasibility and not cost okay so what cost feasibility studies have you done in Florida this past couple years we don't do cost feasibility studies this is an order of magnitude study or projected cost I should say Sir so project how many times have you given out a projected cost of a BMX track elsewhere in Florida we talk to those people who are in that business to get these numbers and where are their numbers it's not part of the report okay well we can we can we can let you know where we got those okay we did not make them up okay that's all thank you Vice chair Troy Kant thank you um [Music] Tim do you have enough employees to run this and if the answer is no are you planning on hireing them if the answer is no how much money are we planning on giving I'm sorry um providing to a company to collect our money right so um first question no um facility like this like for instance Bennett on the other side of the uh Veterans Memorial Parkway uh we've got eight Fields there and I've got 33 FTE per field right and we're the lowest in the county in terms of uh FTE per field right so when I'm looking at bomba it's one FTE per field meaning 15 Fields 15 bodies so if we were to meet in the middle on this new facility 12 Fields about six bodies and that would have to be added to our FTE that we have now gotcha and that's of course not included in the 41.5 million that's correct and and what's also not included in the 41.5 million is equipment now let and let me add something to the previous piece here so um you know if we're looking at the 415 right as as a as a deal breaker potentially right uh you all were be getting to crack at this on a competitive bid and then you'll know exactly where it's at based on the market because we could scope it put it out a design bid design build and it comes back before you before we spend any money so you know exactly what at that point so you're so trying to make a decision here on the 41.5 might not be important what is important is if if you like the program the process the the the concept and then the rest of it we can go and tackle and then those costs come before you again that are competitively big right and I I I get what you're saying I'm I'm not going to argue with you over it but the price tag is hugely important when you're the person saying yes or no to the taxpayer dollars and and you're you're held accountable for it and I'll just say Don just because misery loves company 21 years ago we were putting in a restroom a men and women's restroom in Orman Beach and the price was $100,000 for two restrooms not gangway restrooms two individual restroom 21 years ago 100,000 I lost my mind two houses for that much buil 21 years ago you could have built me two houses for that much and I I'll just say this La this last piece if we put an RFP out for 41.5 million someone's going to come in and bid 41499 they'll spend every penny to build it yeah just a couple of other notes from our study so usabmx said that to do a you know Top Class BMX facility would be 3.5 million um so that's a million doll more than what we had in um also uh what was um what was uh included was that it wasn't its own line item but because of the wetlands issue there if you could find a dry site it would probably save you a lot of money um because the wetlands issues they did include a a pretty generous allotment for just site prep and wetlands mitigation that really is going to inflate um or cause the numbers to seem more inflated to you than you'd probably like councilman Reinhardt thank you chair first question Tim is for you if I could the this BMX facility honestly how much will it negatively impact our current facility that we have right um so I did meet with our current uh president of the the BMX operator at Strickland park right yep and there was a concern right so uh we did um understand from our discussions with Hunden is that usab BMX believes that there would not be an impact it should be an add-on so uh there would I mean they get about 30 riders or so a night on practice uh Monday through Thursday and then there's some tourn some races on the weekend um we the usab BMX believes that that would still occur and additional activity would be happening at the other track so there's not this uh C analism uh going on I guess the reason why I asked that is somebody brought up the hotel yeah industry and and we have them over here you know so Strickland is closer they can utilize those it may draw more of that currently over here obviously if you have a new facility you're going to want them to take advantage of that but they're going to be spending their dollars in seminal County for those hotels because they're closer yeah there are nine u if you look at the study deeper there's nine hotels just under 600 hotel rooms um so there would be some leakage you know depending on the size of the event right uh there might be some leakage over to some a state-of-the-art facility that we're talking about building there may be more of a draw to that yeah and you know I understand it's and I got that that it's for the purpose of of getting those kids out and doing something the entertainment value that it brings but being involved in tourist dollars and sitting as chairman on the TDC I also look at it from a tourist uh perspective as well and and Revenue it brings back to the county um lighting you mentioned that when you said that the tracks or ball fields or whatever they would pay a higher premium for nighttime deal does that cover the entire cost of lighting because FPL rates go up and down yeah so so uh when you look at the rate per hour for a ball field lit uh when we initially set our prices which there's a $10 difference between our normal rate plus uh if you're rent it at night it's an extra 10 bucks basically and that one hour and it's per hour right so that one hour of lighted use is less than the 10 bucks we collect okay okay all right well that now now if you go with LED it's even better LED saves you about 20 to 25% of your electric bill moving from an incandescent bulb to an LED bulb you reduce your electric build by about 25 25% and so we would go LED okay I'm sorry next question I don't know if you can answer it or you sir um on the artificial turf what is below that just had of here forgive my ignorance what is that what is the surface underneath that that causes that heat I guess is what I'm again forgive my end what's so the cooling beads are what they would put in you know amongst the turf to try to keep it cool but it's it's really just the fact that there's no heat absorption really it bounces the heat back and the light backward so it's regular ground it's not a harder surface anything right well it's it's very specially prepared I don't know all the it is Rock okay all right the you it is has to be prepared uh obviously I'm not an expert in yeah no no I get that but but yeah the heat part is it's just grass absorbs that that sunlight and it's nice and cool the uh the cooling beads I guess I was a little confused on that that was an option so obviously that may increase the cost as well because you're talking about multiple fields that would have to have this correct if we chose that correct um and then you know heating is an issue you know the heat um Mr Joe Hanson actually was uh talking about his son playing on the ball field over in seminal County and the fact that often times there these kids are under these extreme heat issues and medical personnel is needed and I I guess I'm always worried about that you know that element and if it is a County facility that we have to take that into consideration and think about that 100% I will say that there are many complex with many complexes with more Fields I think your issue is you're a little constrained on Space here yeah but um some will have some synthetic some natural so that because the players of course like the natural but you have to let them heal and repair and and replant seed and all that um so uh that that could be an option if you had more space to to spread out oh yeah that does that's an issue how long do those turf fields last just out of curiosity um I want to say about um 10 years 10 years yeah what's the US well you can't really give a projected cost of what it would cost us 10 years from now either to replace and drainage um because it is artificial turf that's part of the infrastructure part there's obviously drainage built in or right so you're on some crushed you know the Rock part that you were refering there's nice drainage and all that okay thank you very much appreciate it councilman Santiago thank you Mr chair I want to try to bring this back to why we even brought up this whole topic if you can come up can you talk from a Parks and Recreation perspective can you give us your synopsis of the need right uh of the in this area right so we have PFC Emeral Bennett in Orange City right you've got three little league fields a baseball field two softball fields and two multi-purpose fields which share the Outfield of the two softball fields right um we have that site utilized now during the daylight like right now you're not going to see a lot of activity out there it's at four from 4:30 on till around 9 10:00 at night every field is packed and every field especially those two soccer fields because that's all we have are heavily burdened and trying to keep up with the turf turning people away because they can't play those are the kinds of issues that brought this need up that's why we that's why we're here right in addition to it being one of your missions uh statements for your your goals during the year right so that's kind of where we're at in terms of meeting the need that we have in southwest fuia and plus meeting the mission Council so it's is safe to say that we have a huge shortage yes based on the population yes okay so there's a need we can check that box yes um I can I I can say I think you tro you did ask the question so I mean I don't go around asking surveying people for this I I am kind of semi uh involved a little bit in the Parks my my 81y old father still plays in the Senior League and I hear it all the time from them you know a certain segment and the the younger uh softball players too that like he uh he plays pitcher he's been hit several times in the face too oh no I'm trying to get him to play cricket it's safer um but uh I hear from from from the seniors and I've heard it from some of the other ball players there that they struggle they they go to seminal County sometimes so there that there is a struggle there I can't speak for every sport though but I I've heard it um in particular to to West Valia and and it's confirmed by our Parks guy um you know there's conversation about the economic I think there's hotels conversation um I think you know we don't not invest this is just an opinion we don't not invest because someone's going to spend portion of their money across the river right we have to we have to invest and try to be Visionaries not only to facilitate the people that live here but when people do invest like in hotels and stuff like that they want to see what's happening in the area um with the hopes that they come and invest over here to capture that market so I wouldn't necessarily put that as a uh no no no no no I'm just I'm just I'm just speak because you weren't the only one a few people said it so it's um I wouldn't make that as our our the niche because I think it's important to think of right and the economic impact but I think in in in the consultant's economic impact analysis that showed around years four and five is when it started kind of leveraging out did account for the fact that we do have a shortage in hotel facilities is that correct that's correct so that's that's accounted for in in in the numbers um I don't think we spoke enough about funding sources and I don't know the 41 million 42 million 20 million uh I I I I don't know but I think that's where we're going to need to get to the next level but I think funding sources are important I know Brad you did speak about uh Echo money so we unique as as one of the counties that has access to those funds how could eeko contribute to whatever dollar amount this comes out to whatever we decide to build can you give us a synopsis on how Echo can contribute to that um and what it could potentially offset over a certain period of time I know there's a load question yeah so I think that one of the things for for council's consideration when we talked about hourly rentals you know Don you had brought that up at a previous meeting so the team did the analysis and those rental fees offset the cost of of of operating these facilities and that's what they're proposing here just on a larger scale the the revenue will offset the cost of operations um really you know it is council's prerogative on the amount uh of echo dollars considered as part of this process what may be helpful to council is if you give us Direction like you did with the Motocross facility to come back back with some options for you in terms of do we want to do a phase we want to phase this project and meet local needs first Tim and I have had that discussion and got a number in mind of you you took my next question so you know this is what it would look like in phase one and then we meet the local needs and then we grow organically based on not projections but real demand um the other if we want to go so that's a more incremental approach that we would propose to council um the other end is the whole hog approach if we're going to go go big or go home is what I read in this report if you're going to go that route in terms of tournaments in that sense I would recommend exploring a P3 option which is a public private partnership where we are you know engaging private investors um with also those initial conversations of um hotels how will that come about as part of this facility as well so we're not you know they mentioned leakage but for you know very transparent about 24% of those room nights 5,000 I think they're proposing would be in Valia County so it's a small it's a very small amount um but if we have a P3 partnership um there are firms that specialize in securing investors and kind of you know shepherding us through the process you know those would be two options and we'd hope to maybe come up with something in the middle as a hybrid as well for your consideration um thank you for that and I'll talk a little bit about the what I I want to propose oos hopefully we can go next but uh on Echo If This Were an ex could could something like this be categorized as exceptional so that's the grants and aid program so the the the projects that's through the grants program the ballot the resolution that puts that authorizes the echo uh on the ballot provides you the opportunity to do a direct County expenditure which is your judgment in terms of the amount and how much the ballot initiative also gives you the um authority to bond up to 40 million I believe okay so e exceptional okay um but yes this would be an exceptional project given if you use the parameters of countywide importance will serve a significant number of people this um would meet that criteria one of the things to add to Tim's comment if you read some of the you know themes from the interviews is we have a lot of people traveling to new samno sets in as one with their with their teams um that travel to new samna because there's no field availability on the West Side how much do we have an echo right now we have non committed I'm sorry non-committed in reserves right now we have 15 million okay not suggesting using it all I'm just asking general questions um I don't want to jump all over me here um yes bonding Authority up to 40 you said yeah um one moment Mr chair so I think there's there's there's definitely questions to be answered I I think Don has has has often been critical of estimates um and and I appreciate you're questioning those estimates but we won't find out what those really are until we go potentially to the next phase where gives you a little bit more Direction saying maybe phase this like you said do the uh uh the the the local um impacts first but with an intention to phase it the overall design concept um and what the cost the hard cost would that be then potentially then you can come forward and say these are potential funding sources to do phase one phase two or the entire project right um it we're also contemplating the possibility maybe we can go to the state I you just took the words out of my mouth so when I was in clay took us a few years but we got I think it was 3 million State appropriation to build a complex that was similar in size yeah I think um next section um might be a unique session for us also with the people that are going to be in the in control of the pur strings I think fuchia um can definitely capitalize on that on some of the individuals that will be representing us there so we got to make our economic case certainly to them so I I think that's a potential um I I I'll tell my colleagues um you know everybody I I seen 41 has scared me too but it's it's all relative is all relative to what we want to do right if we want to build two Fields 10 Fields 20 fields or or everything um the costs are today's costs um you can't build that two homes for $100,000 anymore like you know you were describing um Don could he's his hammer right well and I will say as good staff members we anticipated Don's push back and uh we did an analysis of what the costs are across the region and they're they're pretty on point on that number um in terms of comparisons of what's been developed um and I'm just making the argument the cost are the costs when we go out to Market it is what it is right um and then certainly staff would look at you know I think the example I think a worthy example that you said Troy when you said if you put out 41 million it's going to be you know 4999 but I would expect our staff at the same time to say wait a minute this same soccer field was built for 1 million and you got 1.5 million here and do that analysis but I'll just say colleagues um I hear the rest of the comments or questions but I think the need is there the costs are the cost do we want to address the need is what we need to decide and and how far do we go to address the needs we won't know until we give staff the direction to look at the next level I think this is too important to kill it we we owe it to the constituents um not only I think this will have a broad valua impact but especially in west valua but we owe it to them to find out more details and send staff in some direction to the next level so that we can make those hard decisions at that point when we have better numbers and a better plan so um I ask that as we go through this that we don't kill it we get it to the next level um to be more um knowledgeable in the final decision thank you Mr chair councilman Robbins thanks chair and Don I I share your frustrations being you know in the private sector a long time and and I compare government work and like Union work that's like the the the golden egg you know it's like the uh I don't want to do- it price that you get as a homeowner and and i' I've seen all this um but I don't think we can eat this elephant in one bite um David brings up some some good points um uh Brad hit the nail on the head too prioritizing breaking this down ball fields are out of shortage we're traveling right now in in in tenu around can hardly find Fields um I mean it's a it's a nightmare anything from parking going any anywhere locally there there's there's no Fields um I think it's very worthy of um uh addressing this and seeing how we can um break this down and maybe put on a timeline say hey we want to build two Fields right now in a couple years let's build another two and another two uh but also too I don't know you know funding wise our Economic Development uh some of those funds I I don't know if we are able to use uh as that as an option to combine with uh kind of like what we do in and around the airport you know we own a lot of those properties and Lease them to certain businesses restaurants hotels to all support the airport you know I don't even know if some of that stuff is is feasible here or if that funding is feasible but um I think there's a lot of options that we can take here I think scratching this thing and letting that number scare us uh would be very shortsighted uh in my opinion but uh looking at a uh uh the structure of this how we put this together uh I think this can be a longlasting very fruitful um uh Endeavor for for our kids you know we as Government we spend money in my opinion on a lot of stupid things this isn't one of them um and uh don I'm going to support you and however you want to handle it it feels like we've gone from uh questions to debate which is good I don't have a question left I wanted to kind of push it into debate and decision anyway but Donna I I will tell you that I don't think there's any question that there's a current need in West valua that one of the issues with it's Troy brings it up a lot that sometimes we'll Council will wait 15 years to direct staff to raise a fee somewhere and then you've got this huge fee increase that looks really lopsided and um so now we're going to ask staff to uh to consider catching us up and maybe we can do that in one felt swoop I I don't know but what I hope is that we will hear a motion um to bring back to the council from staff real cost based on putting out rfps or local cost um do we do it incrementally we do we do it give us some options do we do it step by step and will there be public private partnership which would be nice the last thing I'll say that when when we were talking about how to spend money to attract new companies I think this is one of those ways this is economic development companies that will come here um wealthy companies that will hire a lot of people want to come to a place where there's actually something for their employees to do um places to go and places for their children to go places for the young entrepreneurs to to go so um I I think in concept it's good it is the uh the price tag that we all have to consider so let us look at that that would that's where I hope that we end up with um uh next we have County Manager George rectenwald yeah thanks uh actually Brad kind of um said some of the items I was going to say we definitely could look at the scoping of this uh and do um some sort of a phase approach I was already there when I saw the the price tag uh a while back so we'll we can look at that I think to look at the needs of the local um um leagues that are out there right now I think is a high priority and we could always look at uh building it uh in such a way it could be expanded uh and add some of the other more expensive amenities um but again without really having competitive pricing it's hard to uh know that I will say having spent a a career both in the private sector in construction and and a long time here too uh building a ball field is not the same as your yard uh there's a lot to it there's a lot of drainage you're grading to a TBL top uh accuracy uh there's things underneath usually drainage and things like that um so you when you get into it it's not just site work uh I've asked our teen to look at some recent projects around here I know uh ston university has built some recent ball fields uh so we'll take a look and look at the other projects that are out there and make sure they're in line we always do that we'll continue to do that and uh and look at ways maybe we can save money I I'd like to point out uh the property was bought out there for emry Bennett uh I think it predates even uh my time here so it' be uh well over 30 years uh and they put uh part of it in and that's what we've been dealing and working with for these years uh but they had the foresight to get that other property which I do remember at the time there was and this is before I was here just remember reading it in the paper there was controversy then about what they paid um to get that property and well that's an advantage we have today we're not buying property we have you know so there's one advantage already we have a site uh and it was paid for uh a long time ago so uh another thing when we do look at these estimates always uh keep in mind too they they are projecting several years out usually about three years and right now construction inflation uh has been at the worst uh that I've seen it um so I think that's the other thing why the price tag things could be slowing down there is some cooling going on um so there's some optimism that it won't be uh at that number as well so so uh we can definitely scope it and we can put some uh additive alternates in there and uh get some ideas about what uh the real cost would be and come back and say Hey you know uh this is really what we want to spend and and by the way we don't uh we know that people try to um uh build to the budget so we're aware of that too so when we put out the budget uh we often uh try to make sure that they're working uh for what we can really uh um afford and uh that goes out there not just not just a $40 million number that would be um um we we do realize that people do that so we we compensate for that that's all I have Vice chair Troy Kent thank you chairman so um there was a discussion earlier about you know these going to be Major League size fields or you know little league or t- ball I I think it's important to State at this point there's a drop off every time you move up to the next level of players but your t-ball Fields have to be premium they got to be the best to start with because they're little kids it's the parents first look at what you have to offer it's the kids's first look at what they're playing on so you don't want ratty Fields where the you get a bad bounce on a ball you know hit hitting a kid and I say they have to be the best because beyond that all the other ones have to be equally as good because they expect that from you so if you're going to build it you you got to do it the right way so we have uh about $15 million in Echo that was one of my questions I I heard that and Don I just I wanted to just touch on one thing you mentioned Orman having 25 Fields but we don't we have 41 baseball fields in or and you're like Troy why are you bringing that up cuz I'm I'm an honest guy and and and I played I played on on the Nova Rec field as a kid okay so we have 25 at the sports complex 10 at Nova recre six at the South Orman um Sports Complex there on Division Avenue and Orman paid for all of those you know which brings me to my next comment which is so I look at Port Orange I think they have S Fields when I added them all up Pearson has seven Orange City has six we're talking about this in Orange City um these Echo dollars should the conversation segue into talking to our partner cities and saying hey Orange City there's a need in your area okay and and just being transparent I've not heard of the need except for listening to you gentleman up here and I believe you're 1,00% so going to Orange city going to Dand and saying you know there's a want for this apparently let's use your property let's commit Echo dollars to you and let you have some skin in the game City cities I think it's a conversation that we should talk about a little bit you know I mean my belief core responsibility of of your government blch County government you deserve clean water great roads to drive on the best public safety we can offer and then Leisure Services and art in public places I mean that's what defines a community it makes you want to live there not just the good water and the and the and the smooth roads and the good Public Safety but the extras that you can go and participate in so I think I think that's important I like the turf for fewer maintenance dollars on it but I like grass for every other reason I'll just get that out there for everybody uh I think grass is is better and it was interesting to me that the price tag 41.5 million will recoup it in nine years and did you pick up on how long the turf is good for 10 years so now yeah good it was a great question because I didn't think of that um Mr Reinhardt but hey we're back into buying more turf at at that point and I think that stuff's pretty expensive and let me just check and see anything else yeah I I I think we really need to tap into our Westside cities and help them provide these services in their core communities um because you know you've got this in Orange City but that's a bit of a drive for people from other parts on the west side you know we might be able to do several of these I've got a minute left really quickly um Tim how many ball field multi-purpose fields and grass fields is this for 41.5 million and then I'll take 2.5 million off for the BMX it's 12 yeah there's there's eight uh artificial turf fields and four natural grass fields right so we're looking at a little $3 million a field I mean there's more to it there's parking and um site work improvements and irrigation all of it you know there's there's all of that as well but we're looking at $3 million a field basically and I think that we can solve this problem help solve this problem with the partnership of our municipalities and say here and and I'm not and by the way I'm I'm not GNA hold um I'm not going to you know hold and say Hey you know we owe Port Orange and we owe Orman Beach and we owe new samna you know because they did theirs on their own we should I'm not doing that that's not what I'm saying I think from this point forward we can we can assist and help with things like like Echo and and uh and things like that thank you councilman Johansson yes sir uh now that we're done with questions I think David I'd like to make a motion if that's okay and I'll probably Cobble this up but I'll give a shot uh I'd like to make a motion that staff uh investigate all options uh for building a sports complex uh uh all options being a phased approach a total approach uh including different locations that may involve cities uh and different funding streams that may involve cities Echo State and anything else any other OPM you can come up with uh does that sound George clear as M we definitely work with that that's good okay Mr Johansson I'll second it only because you said OPM the other people's money piece OPM thank you for bringing that up all right and and then there there's a second now we're in discussion can I keep going um so the the the things I see were were the goodness here I just did the the traveling distance from uh boomba to Orange city it's about 30 minutes driving uh I've driven as far as 40 minutes for a a morning travel ball game and an afternoon travel ball game down in the fort Meers area so so traveling 30 minutes to have a big tournament is is doable for for families of travel ball soccer and baseball so uh I don't see that as an issue and and what I appreciate out of it and we're talking about tourism here I know but weekend stuff is now we can be an additional field that that all these sanctioned bodies are doing tournaments and we can just they can like you said in increase their amount of teams available and make it well worth our while so I like orangan City I I do think it's important did you want to say something PR about that supplement and thank Rob and Lexi because they've had those initial conversations with boomba before us where they could use us as overflow a couple times a year a few times a year absolutely yeah there's been plenty of people that have been turned away um I think the phasing plan is important um I I I tend to agree somewhat with uh uh with council member Kent on the on the funding Orman Port Orange New Smyrna the land they all approach the county for Echo funds to pay for baseball fields and and and they have skin in the game um and and this this field we're building is is going to be countywide but I guarantee you the new SMA little league is not going to go to Orange City to practice uh majority of those practices are going to be travel ball practice fields because I've traveled to Orange city for travel ball before so I I think that's how it's going to end up and and I want to make sure that that the cities have a stab it having a little bit of skin in the game because it's a majority of their kids and some unincorporated kids that'll be going to these things uh so so I think that's that's important and I want to make sure that that our Echo dollars or whatever dollars we use are are used wisely because um uh there's some people that'll be taxed twice and never use the facility or not often um and uh that's about it I think I think soccer has the same the same additive value as the baseball so I appreciate it thank you very much councilman Santiago thank you and thank you for making the motion Jake I think it definitely moves us forward um I did want to mess with Troy a little bit not to be adversarial just for fun but you know and I think orman's done a great job and um I think the challenge that the West valua has had is that the cities not as quite as old Orman was incorporated in 1950 and I don't know if this data is right but I just Googled it real quick so I may be wrong Port Orange it says 1867 I don't know if that sounds right but oh and so they've had a lot more time to grow and and plan where you know the Berry's new you know Orange City is much new not quite as new but newer and and Deltona 1995 so they've had their struggles and I I do like your idea they'll find a way to get skin in the game right because it is going to serve those constituents through that entire region right so how do we do that um 1880 1880 1880 okay so um uh I think that that mentality is good for all of us to partner together this this particular site in mind was back in the days it was going to be a like a a conference center and it was called the um I just forgot the uh Partnership Center I was a part of that back then and it was the county and the cities in the areas to build a facility so it's not lost on that location for the cities to you know to to play ball no pun intended um and so I I I think that approach is good however I still like the regional approach of a complex because it gives us that added value of being a venue uh that can have an economic impact versus just saying you know three Parks three ball fields for Deltona three for Orange City those types of cont so let's let's think from an economic perspective where we get the best return for our value um and I think this site also I don't like the con concept of other sites because I don't know of any other sites that can have the potential of this site because it's right near I4 it's kind of in between the three cities or four cities in in that region um and hopefully one day we'll have the Rhode Island extension that'll go over I4 and hopefully have some type of service exit that people can get off I4 and be right in the back door of this property so it's got a lot of future potential um though I I think the concept is good but I don't know if we're going to find anything that matches all those boxes and it's easy to get down to from Sanford if they're going to do any overflow support services so and it has property available around it that can turn into hotels so thank you uh uh Jake for the motion I think it covered all the basis thank you uh Jake is that yeah over yeah one one last comment um um as I get out of the travel ball business a lot of places we go to have mandatory hotel stay nights um if if you can somehow throw that into the feasibility or the next step I appreciate it okay we have a motion on the on the floor um uh the motion I think is the one that we were all hoping for to investigate every option um that being is it phase do we do it all at once total is it uh diff a different location and then investigate all funding streams um we do have uh some members of the public that want to speak to this before we we vote on it uh the first one is John Brandt you stayed to the very end of course good afternoon this is about the BMX track um my name is John Brandt I live at old train Road in Deltona two years ago I I brought my vision of a world-class bicycle and skate park to the economic director of Deltona and to usab BMX the park will be around 50 acres that's room for a bmx racetrack huge skate park mountain bike trails Kitty bike Park Campground and so much more um the park will be a place for Riders of all ages disciplines and skill levels from beginner to Pro this bike park will have scary jumps for the kids who like taking risks and we are not doing anything to to put those kids on a place other than the motocross track that's really all we've got um but here we can uh get those kids the uh the wild kids the ones who have nothing to do they're not in regular Sports they don't want to be in regular Sports they want to go out and they want to do something fun on their own without a coach screaming at them Unfortunately they have their parents screaming at them we've all seen that um but instead so instead of stealing Kia we can and posting it on Tic Tac these little Daredevils can post videos of themselves doing backflips 360s and something that is not going to land them in jail like the kids on that stole the Kia and ended up up on my road um the BMX track Pro proposed for Bennett Park is a great location but it doesn't serve the residents of Deltona my goal is to expose 100,000 people to BMX racing and extreme cycling the population of Deltona um this park may even spark investors to start investing in hotels uh it may be the last piece of the puzzle to get them to start because they really haven't been going um I respectfully recommend we delete the BMX from the Bennett Park and take the bike park concept back to the drawing board and find a way to make the complete bike park a reality in Deltona I want to thank Mr Bailey for including this into the sports feasibility study the county has spent money on this idea and I'm tickled to death um again though I'm looking forward in Deltona have always been looking forward in Deltona to give these kids something to do there's nothing for them in Deltona so um but thank the council thank you everybody if yall have questions later on uh I've been in BMX racing for 11 years with my son um I watched him go from uh a little 8-year-old at Daytona when we first got out there uh and we were volunteering then I've been a volunteer at tracks the whole time um in the rebuild of Daytona four years ago uh there was a dozen of us include the uh the president of uh the association was here earlier I don't know if she's still here but um we all the 12 of us got together and we rebuilt that track into a phenomenal little Jewel it's just a perfect little spot it's not going um what we're proposing here is not going to take away if we build a BMX track in Deltona or even if it ends up in Orange City if we build one here it's not going to take really anybody away from there because you all know what it's like to go down I4 and um in in the evenings how much did it cost thank you that was volunteer work oh but I spent two weeks on my tractor out there I don't know um um that it's volunteer work I have his phone number you can call him thank you thank you Lisa Leman oh U she she had to leave okay uh John Nicholson I didn't know John did BMX I can see it I think he criet not in the last 100 years anyway John Nicholson Daytona Beach side uh a couple of things um you do know that Daytona Beach has 600 acres a few feet from this all right about 10 minutes all right they're planning on 15 to 20 ball fields would it affect your ball fields uh I didn't hear it mention whatsoever uh there they've got to study out they're looking at how much they're going to put into it uh what they want to put into it um so when I get home I'm going to recommend that we talk to the county because there's no sense in oversupplying uh ball Fields uh for tournaments it doesn't make sense there's only a limited time period that baseball softball whatever happens and if you have all of these fields all trying for the same number of people at the same time uh secondly I wasn't happy with the idea that we will send all of our money over to seol County uh I mentioned more than once that we have hotels uh on in Daytona Beach uh several of them as a matter of fact I think 12,000 hotel rooms uh which is not nothing to sneer at uh that would be enough to do any baseball tournament softball or soccer uh probably not Cricket though um I know we did soccer in Miami 70 years ago soccer was the new thing soccer was going to take over football and it's been 70 years and it's still just barely getting there with Messi so Cricket in about 70 years we'll need Cricket Fields U give or take um the amount of money I know it's only $40 million it doesn't sound like a lot um Don had a a a hissy fit over just 10 million so but the 40 million or 41 million is not really 41 million with the 10% override with the water beads with the truckloads of dirt and inflation so it would only be 50 million and that's not the whole thing because then you have to add the $100 million for the other facility that you're not talking about so this complex $150 million I think will get some some people's attention all right in the middle of nowhere with no hotels so um I understand they're talking about local but the locals can't pay for this and they will refuse to pay for it so you need the outside to come in and pay for these fields and I found out like with the city ton be had just renovated a park for the locals only they lock it up because they don't want it to destroy it so we have fields that we lock up we have uh four baseball fields we lock up so that the locals can't use it so they don't destroy it so how often is this going to be open up or were you going to at a point lock them up so the locals can't use it thank you thank you uh Council we have a motion on the table and and fortunately uh those were all good points that John Nicholson brought fortunately they were all covered um uh by Jake Johansson's motion which included investigating all options in including City participation because we certainly don't want to build right next door to Daytona Beach including uh funding from private sources what would the public private uh participation be do we do it phase do we do it uh Allin one Swoop a total project do we uh please look at different locations and then uh give us options for different uh funding sources um so it was a pretty comprehensive uh um motion here that I that I cover all your points thank you um thank you Mr Nicholson for bringing bringing that up but I just wanted you to know and all of us to realize it that's uh that will all be part of the consideration um all in favor of that motion please say I I any opposed and motion carries 7 to one and we're already on item six um it can't carry seven to one pardon me it it can't carry seven to one it can carry six to one or seven to did I say to one yes is it seven to zero or six to one I was considering that Don's heart really wasn't in it item six proposed vacation that sounds like a good idea so 70 70 Tad you got 10 seconds all right I canid petitioners are requesting the vacation of Third Street and the remaining portion of Armstrong and the High Ridge uh States uh plat it's approximately a 50 foot rights of way for both of them neither one is has improved it's in the I one C zoning staff recommends approval councilman Santiago move to approve second Johansson councilman Santiago moves to approve the vacation it's seconded by councilman Joe Hansen uh any questions any debate all in favor say I I any opposed and this one carries 7 to0 pardon me 8 to3 long as it carries item seven another proposed vacation you're heading in the right direction amen all right this is a uh the petitioners requested the vacation of a utility easement along the back sides of their property uh these were dedicated as a part of the original plat it's approximately 606 Acres there are new utilities within that uh easement and we are recommending approval is there a motion David Santiago move to approve second Johansson motion to approve uh by David S Santiago pardon me yes this is a quasi judicial hearing did anybody have any expart to declare okay uh who was the second Johansson Jake Johansson made the second questions debate all in favor say I I any opposed beat the both on that one motion carries 7 to zero item four also a quasi judicial hearing is ordinance 20243 smallscale comprehensive uh plan Amendment and uh uh clay are we going to do eight and nine together yes sir okay let's start before you even begin is there any um expart to declare on item eight or nine yes on nine yes on nine okay uh same for me spoke with the attorney for the I believe uh um Michael Woods met with uh many of you this is the one on New York um yes yes yeah I I think at least sitting here all of us but Troy can't um okay uh clay good afternoon Claire director of growth and Resource Management before you uh as uh we just discussed I'll be addressing a comprehensive plan Amendment which will be affecting the future land use map designation of this property as well as uh related resoning to PUD the current property has a designation of Rural and is looking to go to Urban low and tensity and Commercial uh the property is located at the northwest corner of State Road 44 in Grand Avenue the uh aerial shows that it is currently being utilized for planted Pine uh there's basically two Parcels identified there uh the next is a location map that gives you an idea of where it is located and what is around it this shows you the current future land use map designation what is the proposed so the green represents the rural which allows uh upwards of one unit per acre up to five and urban low intensity does allow up to four units per acre the commercial has a floor area ratio as well that is tied into the limitations of our comprehensive plan it's 42.360531 the uh Associated resoning to planned unit development has a limitation of 121 homes so this would be on 50 and 60 foot wide lots and then roughly 36,000 square feet of commercial retail use that could be allowed in that area uh we did have um we we as staff looked at the proximity of this property to the uh uh proposed to land SunRail station looked at the intensity of development around it the area is served by utilities by the city of Dand we see this is a area that can be allowed to be uh developed for these more intensive uses be a complement to the to area that's you just immediately to the South and also as part of the uh resoning you will see that the concept plan if I could go have the presentation for the uh resoning um we would be able to integrate the proposed rail system or excuse me trail system into the project as well so what you're seeing is that the uh applicant has addressed the factor of proximity to Transit proximity to the trail system uh there was some questions in regards to the access off of State Road 44 and line of sight and visibility there is to the West an overpass of the railroad there was concern that the elevation change uh would create perhaps a site visibility issue the applicant has provided us with um review comments from their traffic engineer that's been sent on to our staff they did not see necessarily a site visibility issue but they are going to be working in regards to the appropriate location of both the um uh access points from State Road 44 as well as what limitations could be done Incorporated in there as part of um what's being done to the South and to the existing to the east so both the comprehensive plan Amendment and the resoning to PUD came to the planning and Land Development regulation commission with a recommendation of approval uh there was a public hearing there was a resident of the area who objected to the uh proposed intensification there there was an understanding that there could be some use of of higher impact but there was concerns with it initially the uh recommendation was a tie vote so therefore it would have been denied but the planning Land Development regulation re considered it and it's coming to you now with a 42 recommendation of approval the applicant is here and he'll be able to provide additional details if there's any questions for staff we are available couple questions um probably that you can handle does does this area have a watershed study when you say water said you're talking about a basin study that we've done as part of our storm water I don't know I'll have to defer to uh Ben on that Ben Bartlett as to whether or not there's one for this area um again this would have to go through our storm water management uh review through the staff as well as St John's River Water Management right now I was talking about the comprehensive plan chapter nine Watershed study is it the is this area Delan rid or or uh St John's I believe it's part of the Dand Ridge but again uh I will have to confer with Ben Bartlett I'll let me uh check with that and be able to provide you with a more detailed answer on that um but basically again what the chair is referencing is there's a requirement in our uh storm water drainage element that we have Basin studies we've completed the urbanized areas as required by the comprehensive plan to ensure that we have those basins well Del delineated and as part of the money that you all approved as part of the increase in the storm water fee will be updating those basins studies as well as expanding into areas that uh are on the cusp or in the process of being urbanized so I can double check with Ben and get you an answer after I've talked with him as to whether or not he has a basin study on that or not okay and this is Ben Bary yeah so Ben Bary Public Works director this area is right on the edge of the Dand Ridge in the St John's area and we have studies in both those location overall Basin studies you do have the studies in both they were included in the information provided weeks ago okay um clay any idea where the city of Delan gets their water where where their Wells are they've got quite a few different locations I don't know exactly which ones would be providing specifically for this area is there a specific area of concern in regards to draw down or impacts uh yes I I don't know where they get their water but there is specific area of concern on draw down I know that in silver Glenn you gave us I believe it's uh page n says the parcel directly adjacent to the site um there's going to be a rail yard do you know what the rail yard will the Martin maretta site has been approved for a variety of more intensive commercial uses over there immediately to the West so uh again it's located right here that is the Martin Mary at of site did it come I don't see it but uh doesn't sorry it's it's basically just du west of the property to to the CSX line there and that parcel next to as of right now we don't know what will be there well there they had approval they've not operated on it uh there was an initial uh plan for a mixed use industrial office commercial area over in that area uh it was approved right before I would say the economic downturn in the early 2000s it's been seeing there it's still vested for it but it's not had any kind activity on it recently no okay uh page nine also there is a discussion about the Delan 2050 plan does this project comply with the Delan yes sir uh we've been uh working with the danan staff to make sure we have a clear understanding of where they're at with that and and what it is is it's identifying within their water and sewer service areas areas that they feel are appropriate for more intensive development and those areas that should be remaining as a more rural or less development and this uh is consistent with the Delan 2050 okay and then on page uh 12 says a development consistent with the future land use map shall not occur until concurrency services and Facilities have been determined and and are available have these have these uh um improvements be made or do we know when they will be made or what they will be what's required concurrency is uh evaluated at time of either subdivision or final site plan in which case uh we analyze impacts on water sewer storm water roads Recreation for uh for residential and at that point if there's any deficits they ha cannot proceed until they've identified what mitigation will be required ired so that's hence that's why you see a lot of the prop fair share agreements that we have for the transportation improvements or where they would have to do specific roadway improvements if there's a situation in regards to Recreation they would have to provide for that as well um and so right now we do not see necessarily a significant issue with this other than getting into the details of what the transportation study would show based on the information provided by the city they have sufficient uh capacity their plants to provide both sanitary sewer and centralized water um other than that uh right now uh the in at this level of development they are consistent with our concurrency requirements but there will be have there will have to be additional review and details identified as to what is necessary to ensure concurrency okay so there's additional review required is is that the same for what page is this page 13 um uh BL County shall require that all new development which is located within an area encompassed by an adopted Municipal Water Service Area agreement shall comply with the pable water subelement and level of service standards adopted by that municipality um has that been done or are we in process or will it be done at some other point as part of the comprehensive plan and resoning process we coordinate with the city of Dand and part of that because this is tied to a planned unit development we have a very clear picture of what the impacts are going to be 121 single family homes and upwards of 36,000 square feet of commercial so when we send that over to their staff they're able to identify what the generalized water demand would be based on standard coefficients and come up with the total demand at that point if there's any issues that's when the cities would or whoever may be the water and sewer provider would let us know whether or not they had adequate plat cap plant capacity or whether or not there was adequate Distribution Systems at this point city of Dand has not identified a difficulty with either one of them again it will be incumbent on the developer to have to go through and get those approvals to ensure that they have adequate uh capacity if they don't it will be their responsibility to address the deficit okay is that the same for um the couple paragraphs down discussion about urban sprawl um there is um uh requirements there's no me find it here urban sprawl is the following pursuant to section 16331 164 Florida Statutes a development pattern characterized by lowdensity automobile dependent development with either a single use or multiple uses that are not functionally related requiring the extension of public facilities and services in an efficient manner and failing to provide a clear separation is do we know yet if there will be an extension of services roads or anything to this area in order to make it and and will that be efficient ye yes sir right now there's existing Utilities in that area there's adequate capacity as I said for water and sewer there are existing roads out there uh they may have to do certain improvements from an operational Improvement or pay into a proper prop fair share to address some of the capacity issues but it is identified as a Transit oriented area it's going to be incorporating in a Trails area so that's why from your staff's analysis this does not constitute Urban sprl okay I think with all these questions what I'm getting at is when when will that we're going to be we're being asked to vote on it today yes sir with without a lot of this information but the information will come sometime in the future which makes it for me it makes it difficult to vote on it um today um uh just a a couple more questions for you um according to the applicant trip generation analysis there proposed 121 dwelling units um and 36,000 Square ft of commercial development would generate approximately 3,162 daily trips and 356 peak hour trips um therefore the proposed amendment would result in a maximum net increase of 2,6 98 daily trips is that the is are the roads there is that area able to handle that kind of increase there will be have to be obviously operational improvements such as access so that you'll see turn Lanes those types of things there are uh intersection issues over at 44 and uh the truck route we are aware of it has also been identified from do so what will happen is if there are any deficiencies in the road segments or at any of the intersections their proportionate fair share of what would be required to repair that is what we would charge them as part of that agreement so that is how concurrency for transportation specifically roadways are addressed here in the State of Florida uh we have to have the pay and go pursuant to Florida Statutes 163 this this says that the um tra traffic impa impact analysis is required it's been reviewed by valua County but it doesn't say if it was approved or not yes sir otherwise we wouldn't be coming forward with there were significant issues that the applicant did not agree to or any of those types of things and again at why does it say here has not yet been approved because at at this point in time we use a conceptual of the 121 identify those issues when they actually come in for their subdivision we have to look at that point in time if they come back here two years later their with their Subdivision plat there could be much worse traffic conditions than there is at this early stage we want to make sure concurrency is done right before they do development so that that way we can get the best existing snapshot of the condition of the roads so that that way their impacts are best assessed that way okay looking at page 48 single family residential um again this is trip generation 464 total 3 3,162 um and then in your conclusions it says the proposed flu Amendment would result in a net increase of 2698 daily trips and 311 peak hour trips we just looked at that all study roadway segments within the impact area of the project or it's expected to operate below the adopted capacities again I guess what I'm asking you want we're going to have to vote on this right now when will we have this information again right now you don't do a full concurrency analysis with a comprehensive plan and a resoning at this point we're basically identifying what are the critical issues so that you as an El elected body understand what we at staff are going to be looking at when they actually do come in for the final subdivision uh because this is going to be a residential and a commercial development you got two situations when they come for the subdivision which is phase one which is 121 homes that's when we will require full-on concurrency analysis including roads schools water sewer Parks and Recreation because it is a residential component and that's where if there's any deficits they have to be identified in regards to specifically Transportation concurrency the State of Florida has stated that if a local government chooses to do Transportation concurrency they must include an option for a proportionate fair share where a developer can pay for it so that's why I was saying is that if they get the approval of this PUD at this point but put off the development for a year and a half and come in for the uh the subdivision at that time we will have a better assessment of actually the traffic impacts at that point in time than trying to take a picture of it at this point in time and assessing what the impacts would be so that would account for growth that may occur over the next year and a half so that that way if we do have additional Road segments going down we can make sure we can capture that we cannot charge for anything above and beyond what their fair share is and we cannot withhold development approvals for transportation concurrency as I said the state mandates that if you're doing Transportation concurrency you have to offer the pay and go as a remedy to any kind of deficits so we'll get all that in the the second another hearing when we see the final site plan no sir the Subdivision plat goes through the staff uh there's the process includes an overall development plan preliminary plat they go to construction they cannot do anything with the properties per se um yet and then the final plat comes back to you it is the preliminary plat and final platter part of the final approval through the basically a uh consent item to the council okay uh don't go away it's we're still in questions uh councilman Robbins thank you glad just to recap uh your presentation thank you is this consistent with the Dand um Future Vision of the area yes sir so in in plain terms do they want this yes sir it's consistent with what they're seeing out there uh moving on to uh the growth on the property um this is not virgin growth correct no it's as you can see it's pled upon I just wanted to to to reiterate that so the planted Pines is it's man-made um do do U planted Pines like this thrive in in Wetlands uh environmental sensitive areas or recharge areas yes or no uh Sandy soils yes those would be considered recharge areas because of the Sandy soils okay but I don't see uh much much any other okay uh that's all I got for now thank you great job councilman Dempsey clay if you remember at our meeting on this project um I expressed to you my concern about the location of the uh driveway location on uh the 44 on West New York um and just toh educate you guys or refresh your memory the reason that roundabout is there um is because that grandmother and three children grandchildren were uh uh in an accident where the gentleman was pulling out south from Grand Avenue and uh hit them they burned in their Jeep and I believe that was identified was I actually was involved as an attorney in this case very deeply and uh so I'm very very familiar with this location and the hazards of it I believe uh Sheriff Johnson at the time or I don't know if he was the sheriff at the time or not but I think he identified this mentioned that this was one of the most dangerous intersections in the county and that's what preceded the uh that accident is what finally caused this roundabout to come in existence the danger of this is traffic coming from the West going eastbound they Crest the bridge that goes over the railroad tracks and as you're going down the decline you get to Grand Avenue which was a blind which I've actually almost been hit there coming south out of Grand Avenue onto eastbound New York and you can't see the traffic coming over the bridge me you got to be moving out at a good clip so my concern and that was I can Circle yeah okay I'm going to circle right here okay so this is where the in the incident happened the the gentleman the elderly gentleman was pulling out here and going eastbound and the grandmother and her grandkids were coming this way off the bridge this is where the accident happened they burned alive and um that's what caused the the roundabout so my concern now is I think what they're proposing is a driveway here and here and what I've said to Clay is my concern is when people were coming from the West cresting the bridge and coming this way there may be stacking here of people trying to go left into the subdivision so two parts clay uh I'm in favor of this project but with the one caveat that we could be assured that the Ingress and egress from these intersections or entrances could only be right in right out what I'm afraid of is people coming eastbound from the West cresting the bridge a car will be stopped here waiting to turn left and then we'll have stacking issues and that's a what 55 65 mph area it drops down to 40 and then 15 through the roundabout um I I I I want to clarify is that State Road 44 is a DOT road so we do not have any permitting restrictions over it so we cannot guarantee or main or from a county staff perspective the applicant I'm sure will be addressing it because their Engineers did look at it and they have some ideas of what they want to do in regards to restrictions also uh they'll have I believe they have an exhibit that compiles what's being developed on the south and around around in that area to give the council a better understanding of what the roadway conditions may look like in the future so at that point they can make a determination and you know it's again up to them if they uh if they're going to have to go through uh the driveway permitting or excuse me uh access permitting through the do on that again if yet the properties to the South don't concern me because it's going to be right in right out or if they're pulling out onto westbound New York they're not sitting in the middle of traffic waiting to pull out they're sitting in their driveway my concern again is eastbound traffic coming from the West stopping to pull into this neighborhood and waiting for other traffic coming from the East going Westbound and while they're waiting for their Lane to clear up so they can make their left turn a car crests the bridge and doesn't have time to stop we have another repeat of that I'm just wondering what assurances could we get that people couldn't make a left turn into the subdivision from the eastbound Lane on New York I mean if it's if we could limit that to just right in right out and not allow people to make left turns in and they have to turn in from Grand Avenue wonderful I'm just really scared of uh stacking on eastbound 44us obstructions but can that be done can we get that Assurance okay I'll be quiet councilman Joe Hansson I don't have any more questions um move to approve uh item 8 second Jake Johansson makes a motion to [Music] approve and uh David Santiago made the second to have approved the smallscale comprehensive plan Amendment uh and for comments and debate yes David Santiago thank you I believe this is um near the uh the future station that we'll be having in Dand over there too so I think we've talked about before how we need to support putting rooftops in that area so that it supports the the economics of that train station that we're investing a lot of money in so um that's another part of my decision to support it thank you Mr chair okay is yes this is the applicants attorney Michael Woods all right could you uh pull up our PowerPoint presentation or the PDF either one's fine I'll be brief for me I'm sorry uh good afternoon for the record Michael Woods with cob Cole t31 North Woodland Boulevard happy to be in front of you today for this project this is one that we've been working on for a good bit of time and one that we're really proud of of with respect to how we've kind of approached it and and um trying to take into all considerations and Comm uh council member demc I'll follow up at at the end I've got a presentation for you so we can discuss through through that we've got a couple uh suggestions for you uh we'll just wait for that okay what's that you don't have my PowerPoint on there I've got a flash drive but we emailed that in do you have a PDF thank you no no problem I apologize for my lack of tide today um either all of my shirts shrunk over the last two weeks or I've not been paying attention while I've been growing this Beast of a beard the beard has grown I noticed that well I was going to have it gone before today but I did the bike ride this weekend and I've got a sunburn pattern that I think is underneath and I thought that was a little bit more distracting you're not going to work in the mall in December are you no we'll see okay wonderful so this will uh what do I point to just thank you I can deal with that okay um so for our overview for both the land use and resoning Clay obviously gave us a pretty good presentation here uh again uh though the land use provides for slightly more than the 121 Lots that's what we are proposing as a Max Level they are 50 foot and 60 foot Lots uh we did uh carve out a commercial uh out parcel I want to talk about the thought process for that again that goes to our overall thinking for the area um the tree preservation and the uh open space you can see there I'm just going to put a bookmark here because we meet all the requirements as kind of described for your code I do want to get back into Li standards open space standards tree preservation area they're all very siloed and segregated right now under your current code causes some limitation to overall design I think you're going to see that problem come up more and more as you push more liid standards so I think there's some things in the work at staff level but if not this is just on my soap box we need to look into that because it can lead to a better program if you're able to allow for you know a fully TPA area with the trail and have that all count for open space I think a lot of people would like that but you can't really get to that point with your current standards anyway the next slide uh we'll just scroll through these next this one and the following one um as you can see all that Western portion of the property is the old growth uh Pine for harvesting for Timberlands it's fua land and Timber was a previous owner and then where you see the wet spot uh on the top on northeast corner there you'll see with our next slide for our concept plan our approach has been to put our development over on the west side where the planted Pines have been and to really retain the natural conditions of topography in that Northeast quadrant uh Sean forier is here with kcg he's been working extensively on the other portion of of D land out on Orange Camp and is familiar with the challenges there so it's paid very close attention to the issues everywhere in Dand I don't know if another engineer who's up to speed on the surface and subsurface issues for water as much as Shan and again very early on with this concept dating Back to December of 2022 when we started looking through this the thought process has been to keep that as natural as possible and here again I just to kind of point out you know the dark green is your tree preservation area and then the light green is technically the open space ideally would like to be able to keep all that open space in kind of tree covered area but there's we have to go through steps to check the boxes and get the percentages correct uh as you can see here you've got access on Grand Avenue that'll be our primary access point we also have access on New York servicing the residential project I'll talk to uh council member Dempsey's concerns on uh 44 we've got that um location on the drive aisle for the commercial area just as kind of a placeholder and we'll kind of show you this was an earlier concept the thought process here is you've already got access for that Circle K and that's not part of our project whatsoever it's an existing project um but they have their drive a right on that corner and what we contemplated uh is that when fdot comes in for their permitting uh for the commercial they probably won't allow for additional driveway certainly not full access and maybe not even right in right out so we have on our residential AIS coming in off of 44 you can see that gray bar that cuts to the east to give an access point to a rear loading for commercial in in talking about why we're keeping the commercial there um and kind of carving that out it's twofold uh one it has a bit of internal capture and I'll scroll through here at another couple of slides um but you have actually if you go down to the next uh keep going those are just the black and white uh one more okay uh so as you can see there uh the the commercial there is twofold one we've got a gas station in our Southeast Corner we didn't want to hem them in because gas stations when they want to redevelop typically need a larger footprint to be more modernized when you don't give them that space and that ability they'll typically have the national Company sell off to a local company and then you don't get the the corporate standards to apply so we've kept that um and if they come in we don't have any plans with them they haven't approached us on any Redevelopment but it's there for them if they want to if that doesn't come to fruition there's enough square footage there to allow for local kind of commercial uh activity to capture our population but a lot of that and we'll show it in a in a later slide lines up with the commercial element for the project that Rick wolfart got approved on the south side of 44 that straddles both sides of Grand Avenue uh and we'll kind of walk you through that so one of the concepts here and we're certainly a smaller part and and definitely a smaller um footprint than wolf Art's project and then even the other project pelum Square to the Southwest but you're kind of establishing a little bit of a commercial node out here pulling some of that traffic away from the East and into this area to better handle it a better long-term plan uh next slide if you could please uh again there's our land use um uh conditions next slide um that's a lot of text but that was talking about the urban sprawl that is within your development agreement I'm happy to talk or within your staff report I'm happy to talk through that but effectively we try to do as much internal capture and then get into our our bike Lanes if you go to the next two slides on our to our rezoning we've got the standard amenities within our project obviously a lot of open space uh a lot of tree preservation we have a few pocket parks in there and obviously buffering uh surrounding the property but our our big amenity that we're really excited for if you just kind of scroll back down I until the walkability is about three slides four slides keep going I think you're going the other other direction sorry okay so we like to give this slide of most of our presentations uh the developers here are the ones that did the Trinity Gardens project you guys approved that in um a a road cost sharing agreement in your consent agenda today we like to kind of show our walkability and the distance uh traveled so if you click onto the next element here this is or the next uh slide this is showing our interaction with r Forest project to the South and if you can recall that uh the white space the top right corner of his project those are 40ft single family homes if you go down the center line there those are town homes and then in the southwest corner you get to Apartments all building to that SunRail station that's coming down the road you can see the SunRail station right there in the red at the bottom if you scroll to the next uh slide please so this is uh slightly less polished this is my uh efforts on my iPad but I want to kind of give you the sense of the scale that we're dealing with all of these lines are tracing from the existing roadway or the platted roadway that goes through the pum Square stuff in yellow from Sun Rail to points of interest that are already out there so one mile by following the road it's a little bit closer as the crow flies uh on Grand Avenue to get the roundabout that orange line brings you over to Em's timeout Tavern if you've been there for frame of reference and then the purple line that's also just under a mile that's the stockyard so as we have people coming to visit our our sun rail station the idea that this is kind of a an opportunity for something special to developed out here is something uh again soap boox trying to beat the drum to get people engaged in this uh next slide if you would please so this is your um connectivity or this is your Trail uh map uh you can pull it off on the county I want to focus in on the light light purple that's running between Lake Beford and and uh Grand Avenue the missing Gap and tell you why we're real proud of this project you can go to the next slide please uh next one please so right now you've got your multi-use Trail uh that is planned it runs you know Beford Trail All the Way North up to Delian Springs it's supposed to pick up into the state road uh fdot project to go all the way up to State Road 40 uh running South goes into DeBerry uh connects into ostein shoots across it's a fantastic thing but we've got a couple gaps uh and one of these gaps are right in this area uh if you scroll to the next slide please okay so the concept is to run the trail somewhere along Grand Avenue wolfheart's project provided for on the south side of 44 the challenge that you have here uh is you've got about 19 individual Parcels that are on the east side of Grand Avenue they certainly didn't want to have any Crossing of their roadway and you don't want to have a whole lot of driveways cutting through the trail system so the West Side makes a lot of sense the bigger problem in my opinion is when you got to Minnesota Avenue uh and so those are about the 20 to 26 that's there that portion of Minnesota Avenue is all prescriptive so you all have no rideway whatsoever to work with anything there and that big chunk of property that's in in kind of the southwest corner of that intersection that's a cndd recycling site and it's basically edge of asphalt a little bit of tree buffer and then a a grade change down so no room there whatsoever uh if you can scroll to the next and that kind of shows you just the the challenge that you're dealing with with that site scroll to the next place please so what we're proposing with our project is um and and the county we've been working with them again for about 2 years uh with our green portion of the trail that's along Grand Avenue and then cutting along our Northern boundary you get about 4/10 of a mile of this Trail Gap um the 0.12 miles going to the north there's a little bit of a challenge there with a a conservation easement that's been worked on um the 0.19 miles is uh property owned by Mart maretta material and then you go farther up to the north is a vested uh subdivision that I believe one of Butch Paul's entities has uh permitted uh and with that one mile and that Gap and working towards connecting for that you effectively are able to then come into sun rail or be a resident and ride from the sun rail station North unencumbered and on a safe Trail uh to Lake woodriff Reserve to get pancakes at daan Springs to go into other Points North so both a amenity for the community amenity for our residents certainly and then an amenity and a business attraction for getting folks into the area uh on SunRail uh next slide um that's just kind of explaining the thought process there and then this you know we will work with staff this is kind of where our concept is I understand you've got a bit of a grade change from where dead ends on Grand to where you get to us so making sure that the curves can kind of round out properly we'll work with them on that and then I believe there is a requirement in the PD now for some fencing along the backs of our of our units for privacy but we're really really proud about this Trail uh next slide please so this gets to your concerns uh council member Dempsey uh because um you brought it up and we did uh a good bit of digging in into the nature of conditions back when the accident occurred on on Grand Avenue and what the current conditions are right now um we are pretty open to working with whatever fdot requires for us um in our wor wor case scenario uh isn't really a worst case scenario if we are limited to a ride in R out only on State Road 44 the Saving Grace with that is you do have the roundabout so even if you're traveling eastbound on 44 and wanted to do a ride in right or turn into a drive aisle on 44 you can travel through the roundabout loop around and come back in right it's not a U-turn and I I see your face or follow me kind of with what I'm I'm saying just well I'm I'll show you I I'll show you your uh uh that as well uh so next slide so these are the current conditions uh as you're traveling on the roadway uh hopefully the color comes through on your screen the blue is 45 miles an hour or 40 miles an hour I'm sorry and that's as you're traveling north and south as you approach the roundabout 15 is the uh speed through the roundabout it starts a little bit sooner as you're travel in from the West to the east uh at the top of your page there and then there's a 50 mph speed up once you go past the recycling facility to the north so those are existing conditions as they exist today uh next slide um at the time of of the accident when there was no control at Grand and State Road 44 the speed limit throughout that was 50 mil an hour um what we have shown for here on our driveway is uh contemplating what we think fdot would require of us because in our conversations thus far they've asked us to align ourselves with the driveways as proposed to the South Side uh on the Rick wolf har project um so there's a driveway connection on the western edge there uh heading down to the South that's what's on the concept plan for Rick wolfart that's why we lined up our driveway the way that we did um you scroll to the next page please we'll get a little bit closer detail there so what the concept provides and our traffic engineer is here to answer specific questions is that if they would allow us a left turn the only way that they would allow us is to is by providing this type of stacking onto the property there so you've got a 50ft taper you've got about 185 ft of diesel lane and then you've got that I believe reads 25 feet so a grand total of 200 I'm sorry uh deceleration Lane of 185 ft a total westbound left turn lane including a taper of 210 feet and that's assuming a operational design speed of 45 miles an hour when what you're already starting to slow down on is is down to 40 um if we scroll to the next page so I just wanted to get in from a line of sight because I I do remember the conversation that we had of looking from Grand Avenue I'm sorry from yes from Grand Avenue East and trying to judge the distance and again at that time they were trying to judge the distance of a 50 mph car coming down here what you have here is my best effort and you can look on Google Images as well I I drove out there and then I remembered Google existed and so I took the pictures from there um an unfettered View and a clear view both looking from the West towards the east so you're not going to come up over the hill and be surprised by anything sitting there because again you're you're decelerating down to 40 m hour at this point um and then looking West at the entrance so the image on the right hand side is looking back towards the west from where our driveway would be proposed and again I think an un un um interrupted view so you'd be able to see that uh from from a from a visibility standpoint so the main reason for doing that was your concern about having a blind turn or something like that but I think you can see even though we are shifting farther to the uh West than where the intersection was where the accident was that had some interesting um topography at that time as well so that basically once you get west of where we are there's a little bit of a of a of a of a divot going towards the grand intersection and that may have been a factor um I don't think I included a photo of looking at that like on the historic photos um but I think if you see here the uh nothing's going to come out and surprise anybody from looking at it now again I'm happy to have the conversation what we don't want to do uh and we'll do whatever fdot requires us to do I think we'd like to keep our option open to see if they would allow for the for the left turn in uh for full access mainly because we don't want to create a problem with fdot down the road if we agree here that says it will only be riding right out and that screws something else up for them fdot typically knows what they're doing for traffic but if you do feel strongly about that even with the information we provide there I think we can accommodate a ride in right out uh as well and we're happy to have that discussion um all in all uh this is a project that we've put a great deal of thought into uh trying to incorporate it with the surrounding area trying to get prepared for the sun rails that comes in uh and trying to accommodate the concerns have been raised and hopefully we see you all out on your bicycles because um again that's my pet project on this one and I'm really happy for it happy to answer any questions you have or to have some further discussion uh with council member Dempsey again our engineer for traffic again engineering is here today thank you any questions for Mr Woods Jake no questions for him got a question I mean Don Dempsey could I mean would you guys be willing to limit it to write in write out and make it other ways if dot approves it I mean I if the Dell Lane you know there's already the diesel Lane to the east for your commercial site which is great yes yes but there's no diesel Lane to the West Which is closest to the bridge and uh that's what's concerning to me D so for westbound traffic looking for traffic from the West going eastbound cresting the bridge y coming over the bridge there's a car sitting there waiting to make a left turn and that's what what we anticipate is if we ask for full access fdot would require that Dell if you can go back up one page so you can see there that that is drawing in where the Del Cel would would go and that based upon the standards fdot would require that but are you willing to limit this project to a right in right out there with no left turn in God forbid do does not allow the Dell Lane left in yeah yeah oh yeah if if FD if fdot yes absolutely no no I understand that but are you willing to limit yourselves to write in write out only regardless what regardless of no no no if do gives you the Left End I'm all about it okay yeah yeah yes and can I can I just say something so you guys don't think I'm out of you know mind here there's a News Journal article and uh it's dated right after the ACT April 8th 2016 the state adds immediate safety measures at the intersection where four were killed in the crash this is the intersection that caused the roundabout the state pledged Thursday to expedite the safety improvements of the intersection where Delon Springs woman and her three grandchildren died in a fiery crash earlier this week the decision followed a written plea earlier in the day from Valia County Council and Sheriff Ben Johnson asking for safety measures at State Road 44 and Grand Avenue the site of 42 crashes in the past 5 years so I'm not talking about just one incident I'm talking about 42 crashes in a 5year window it's a dangerous area I love the project it's needed out there you guys God bless you for doing it but I'm just concerned about a 43rd 44th and subsequent crash no and I think I think we were aware of that as well I mean I I was around here for that as well um and I mean 44 going out to new samna when I was a kid was the Kill Zone because it was the two lane and you know and I I know people that we we lost out there um so we have taken that seriously um I I think I think there's a distinction with the as it's structured right now there's speed control cuz you know at 50 m hour back then what were people doing CU there was nothing to stop you like that BR was like a blip on the way into town and we all remember have her when used to drive with that but I we take your concerns very seriously and so as as you stated we're we're happy to make those uh references that you need us to okay yeah and we thank you for bringing that to our attention okay thank you okay thank you uh Jake did you have a you didn't have a question you had I'm ready for comments if Troy has a question go ahead Troy yep thank you um Mr Woods uh just a couple of things your storm water ponds are they going to have fountain in them with a light they have to have a light too no I I at this point no I think our our our goal uh particularly on that Northeast qu quadrant there is to go with the LI standards and try to keep it as as natural and functional as possible I'm going next with after the fountains that I've want I want it to be lit up as well I'm not joking by the way um so I'm wonder if that's something that your um your client would would consider yes yes it's a oh okay there you go if it's a wet Pond then yes you'll have a fountain there perfect thank you um and I want to make sure that we include that in the motion whoever the maker of the motion and the second is in just a moment there and then um I really like the commercial aspect of this I'm I'm pleased with that uh I've got to tell I wish they weren't 50ft lots and if you know I I this is a bigger ask but can we go back um a couple more slides to where we have the aerial of all of the Lots there we go right there I just looked at this and it was like paint by numbers you know like you're proud of this and I'm sure you know that they are as well is there any wiggle room to remove some of these some of the sheer number of homes going in here well no I think the yield is is pretty acceptable but I do you didn't you didn't even ask him well know I've done I've done work with them but this go this back to my point about kind of breaking things up okay in our early phase in design particularly on if you kind of call those two super blocks on the west side there where they back to each other and they're all 50s we had a Meandering sale running through there to do Li standards but it couldn't count as open space because it was technically storm water and so instead of having that to kind of break things up and it was going to meander through we compressed those together to be able to make sure we had the open space and the tree preservation on the other side um we I like like it aesthetically pleasing it was good those are the limitations that kick into play that keep us from kind of breaking stuff up a little bit when function doesn't and I I I get it but I also get that if if we don't talk about negotiations right here at this level then there's no negotiations so I'm I'm appreciative for the fountain I'm appreciative for it being lit up uh and there are some times where I think 50 foot Lots you know not everybody wants a big yard to Mo you know you get to a certain age where where you know you want different things but um you know at some point before we vote on this I I would be interested if if your clients would would be willing to to cut down a little bit on the the sheer number just because it's like house on top a house on top of house on top of house well now and on some of that you know when we got to that number two because you know obviously ly um I know the council I'm coming to bring this before we have those kind of conversations we looked at the development pattern across the way um I don't know that you can see it through here but those were developed through unrecorded subdivisions over time and they're all flag lots and so they look like they have a larger Frontage and they're a little bit more shallow but if you overlay their density particularly since again you've heard me beat the drum before they've got no storm water they've got no sidewalk they've got no other landscape buffering that gets developed higher density than what we have here why you have the 50s and 60s here is we have the storm water we have the sidewalks on both sides of the street and all that good stuff but but I appreciate the the conversation on that thank you 50 foot is is just small and and I'm the guy that in Dand not even you know I've got a little tiny sliver of Dand actually in my district but I'm the guy that's voted no on two or three new developments in the land because of the Fountain unchecked growth and no Fountain so um I don't know council members I don't know if any any anybody else feels like this is house on top of house and and maybe maybe a few less would be a good thing but that's where I am councilman Johansson yes sir a couple as as far as changing my motion for the for the for the fountain I'm not going to tell people how to live you make a fountain you don't make a fountain you you make it multicolored you don't make it multicolored um uh I pay an HOA fee it's got a lot of fountains in it it pisses me off so I'm I'm I'm an l no Fountain kind of guy um and and lastly um you know I've been fortunate enough to work with some of the professionals here on the county staff um uh some of our our traffic um consultants and many people at fot and and I'm pretty convinced 99% of the time they know what the hell they're doing and if we need a turn lane we'll get a turn lane if they can't make a turn lanane we're not going to have a turn lane and they're not going to let us sit in traffic coming off a hill to turn left and back that traffic up and it'll be right turn only so uh I don't want to mandate anything uh on the developer before after do weighs in I'm I'm thoroughly convinced that fot can can figure this out and the reason I say that is because a lot of times in these meetings we have people come up and I'll tell you I'm I live there I know how traffic's going to work and and nobody comes back two years later and go hey it's not working like you said it would one or two% of the time we get it wrong but uh um uh I'm I'm I'm pretty pretty impressed with what I thought does uh and and I'm hoping they they can make the right decision on 44 and give us a a left turn Dell Lane um or or or not do it at all so um I'm not going to change my motion gentlemen because I I I trust the the folks that are that are professionals at that that's all I have thank you just two quick questions one of them might be for Sean um in fact it will be for Sean uh when you get done this you build these roads you going to dedicate the roads to the county to maintain they residential roads they go to the county okay uh Sean um you're you're an excellent engineer so I feel confident in asking you this what liid was just brought up um what makes this An Li development well we want to implement as much as we can but but the main attributes that I'm using in this one that I'd like to use is try to oh sorry is that better cross down a little um so in general most of the projects I've been doing I've been trying to implement them because to me it's a factor of safety if I can run as much water as I can through a dry soil which is one of the better systems in my opinion um and it can be vegetated with uh plants that are low fertilizer requirements you know zeroscape Florida friendly those sort of things we work very closely with landscape AR protect on these if I can run as much water through those as I can before it goes to the traditional Pond then it's just infiltrating a lot of water and like I've said I think I've said this before this report but we've done studies where we you know we actually built these things across hundreds of acres and pumped water to them just to see how well they perform and then we end up implementing it on a few commercial projects and we put them all over so almost every drop of water went through one of these systems and end of the where its ultimate receiving water the pond that we had built the traditional Pond that met Water Management District requirements went out that went out there during a major storm and there was hardly any water going to it so we saw at firsthand how you can Implement these little swells and different infiltration systems and have a huge impact on the volume of water which is one of the bigger concerns in the land obviously there's the additional benefits of um nutrient removal and those sort of things um which is pollutants you know going to a receiving water bodies but in this project um I have to be careful because you guys do have requirements that the open space cannot be storm water so the requirement States it a certain way where it says retention or DET so I still want to run it through these systems and and hope it counts as open space which the indication it would be I just can't use it in my traditional storm water so but I still want to use them wherever I can so in this particular project we're going to try to put them you know you can see the light blue throughout the project so I tried to put them wherever we had it a good spot for them um and you know the backs of those lots that back up to the Wetland by letting those lots be a drainage pattern that goes through the back of the lot instead of the front of the lot that just goes to the road the impervious I want to let that R off to the Back store that water up before it overflows into the traditional pond so that's what you're seeing on the back of those lots on that back up to the Wetland um the other Blue Area to the left of that um west of that um is a natural depression that was there and that's another feature I like to use if I cannot fill in existing holes because those depressions get water now so I'd like to keep send the water that same depression and then on the far side of that which you it's not this is an engineering drawing but I'd pick I'd let that water store up to a certain capacity and even let some of the road water go into there let it go there first before it goes to our traditional Pond which would be the one ugly pond in the whole project which is the one in the north um put the fountain there with a fountain if it's wet correct um so I want to build build layers into this project um and then the last thing would be the Wetland itself um you know a lot of Engineers don't touch Wetlands too much with um because you don't want to dry it out you don't want to overhydrate it you can't you can't just send water there because you can actually impact the Wetland by staging the water too high so but we've done quite a few of these where we work with a B biologist environmental consultant he goes out there and he Stakes the hydro periods which is how the water fluctuates in that in uh any given seasonal high seasonal lows we a lot of Geotech boring on it we study the vegetation around it and then we model that predevelopment elevation of that Wetland and then we utilize utilize that Wetland where we try to match that Hydra period going through that Wetland um so we don't dry it out we don't overhydrate it and usually it's they look at the mean annual event the most closely but we'll utilize that and to me that's just another feature to not we can make that Wetland better now than it is today even by having a more Continuous Flow going through it and um more consistent flow I should say um where we don't dry it out and don't overhydrate it control it per se and then there's also talk about possibly land putting some additional natural trees and foliage in that Wetland because it is around it and stuff we can make it better and that's one thing I want to work on what what did the uh core drilling tell you where where is the hard pan so there's not a lot of hard pan on this one it's deep sand is a lot of sand and I can show you that later I we have borings from 2022 too and we had a slightly different layout then we just sent out for more boring so I'm going to get a bunch more now um assuming this gets approved and right where the boring right where all the ponds are and right where all the lads are so I can see how deep all that is um one other thing I you know I definitely want to get those Basin studies from Mr bartlo um but you know he mentioned that the ridge was right on this and I can testify to that because the ridge on this site it kind of runs right at the middle of that main road coming off of 44 everything to the west of that flows toward St John's river everything to the east of that flows towards that the depressions on site so we do actually have a part of our side dis positive drainage which is good okay do you have any idea maybe you don't because this wasn't your something you had to deal with perhaps do you have any idea what percentage of the property was clearcut or would be clearcut for this um I don't know as it's proposed right now how much would have to be clearcut I'm not I'd have to look I mean right now the I can tell you the 15% tree preserv environment we can't clear into and then we have the 20% open space which a lot of that we're going to keep like for instance the a lot of the green around the Wetland are trees we want to keep I just from a accounting perspective between open space and tree preservation I can't okay tree preservation you know we're talking about L Troy said what he said about paint by numbers and apparently we had similar we don't get to talk about this before we get up here but and I don't you just to be honest when I've when I looked at this conceptual I thought well this is not anything special it looks like we can what we continue to see clearcut put houses you save that area to the Northeast um I would like to see less but one of the things that you both have said that really perplex me CU it I think you should have had the option is when you did design the uh Retention Ponds is I think you said kind of a Meandering but you weren't allowed to use that in your calculation for Open Spaces this is a negotiation could you did you negotiate with with anybody in the county could could we change that well I'm not going to speak for County staff and that was an integration going back to December of 2022 was it that we had those meetings no um and so it's kind of been evolving but when we got it was basically kind of a hard no on on making the open space and it's it all all your regulations always have good intentions like there's always a good reason for all of that and what you didn't want to do is have go back to the old school days of playing in the retention Pond now that's where I played football when I was a kid and I was awful at it but it was the dry retention Pond that you kind of played in so I was wasn't here when those regulations were adopted but presumably it's to make it functional open space as we come up with the LI standards and it just requires more surface area we start I mean those old standards worked out pretty well we still had some issues with them uh Mark Watts has a great example and a great exhibit of a trail in Lake woodr or lake Woodruff the national you know it's tens of thousands of Acres of a beautiful natural area but according to the calculations of what's open space for the county it's just the p way just block everything out that's all you get as what is open space I think that there's conversations to kind of work through that but we've we've made adjustments we we're we're happy to try to you know we focus on where we had to for like the storm water and the drainage I understand your concerns about you know if we could have broken it up a little bit more over there but we're this far along now that impacts how the roads align with the driveways to the South um and I just I just think be aware of that as we move move forward and maybe expedite how we can start having those kind of conversations because I think there is some opportunity for more creativity to work through some of those things yeah I think Clay's gonna I think Clay's going to answer that and I'm I'm really not I'm really not asking you to redesign the whole thing I think it's beuming on the on the county the council and to work with staff to say that if we really I really want lid if I really want lid then I'm willing to talk about um changing that rule that those could be considered open space otherwise we'll never have lid because there's only so much space so clay part of the direction that the council gave us to do was to go and utilize the audit tool to identify uh potential you know conflicts in our existing code that was identified and as part of our changes that we're going to be recommending to the council coming back to you once we've completed all of that um issue is that my kid right on the head is that in the past you know before we put the Restriction that common open space common open space accessible to the residents of that development had to be something other than a big dry ditch it you know and that was the thing is that in the past people would try and you know basically get multiple uses of the same piece of property to double or triple count towards their minimum requirements so that was done to prevent that now we have an opportunity where we can sit there that if you're utilizing liid and it's part of it and it's being integrated we will be able to count it towards your open space okay thank you uh Vice chair Kent thank you chairman just a a couple of things Don to your comment about um the number of crashes over a fiveyear period uh you know I'm not saying that fdot gets it wrong but maybe they got it wrong with five crashes on one area 40 some I mean sorry 40 some odd crashes over a 5year period sounds to me like somebody got it wrong you know in fact they realize they got it wrong that so quickly they wanted to make an adjustment and make changes immediately so sometimes you do get it wrong Council I will never apologize for negotiating up here on the de I think it's actually part of my job to do that for our constituents um I've seen extremely positive benefits from that it blows my mind a little bit that the applicant is willing to put a fountain in and light it up but the maker of the motion is hard strong no not going to happen not I'm not going to do that okay you have you do you I'll do me but I I look at this and I said paint by numbers because you look at this Visual and to me that that's what it looks like how many homes can we fit in this postage stamp and I'm going to vote no on this and I and for the reason of the fountain and if it votes no I want you to hear from me I will then make a motion to approve it with the fountain that you agreed to because I think you're okay with it at least you told you said you were okay with it are are the are the owners of the of the property developers are they from this area uh they've got about five or six projects through here we've been working with do they live here uh no they're in the Orlando Ido area gotcha yeah even though I'm not crazy about the 50 Foot Lots um I'll stick by what I said and make that motion if this gets voted down if it doesn't well there you go you don't have to do the fountain thank you uh councilman Dempsey I'm G get a fountain at my house um I got to tell you guys um um unless I get a firm commitment to writing write out I'm a no on this um kind of like what Troy was saying but without the fountain deal I'm just I want to write in right out and just to kind of talk about engineers and how smart we all think government is 42 crashes in a five-year window this is the news journal article from April 8th 2016 where the state allot I guess do in April 8th after the eth fatality the state adds immediate safety measures but let's look at the article neighbors complained we all say a neighbors they all complain no neighbors complain because they know the area better than anybody neighbors complain 2007 42 crashes so what do they do they get the dot out there in 2007 the experts that we're all hanging our hat on do says no problem couple years later fatality 2010 first fatality there so neighbors complained some more Told You So told you it's dangerous dot comes out again in 2012 and all their wisdom no danger no need for a traffic device no we don't need nothing 2013 another fatality still nothing happens then 2016 three children are burned alive and their grandmother burned alive Ben Johnson the sheriff and the County council at that time gets involved there's a danger and they get immediate action and get this roundabout so if we're going to hang our hats on the accuracy of these experts we need to look to the past to predict the future maybe we'd all had deck chairs on the Titanic because those experts all said it was Unsinkable so my point is as much as what we all say about this I'm really truly concerned about the ninth fatality of somebody crusing that bridge going eastbound and here we are again so unless we can get a confirmation that we're not going to have an Easter or I'm sorry right in right out only if we could do it where the commercial office uh parcel is and have the access from there because you already got a Dell Lane there more power to you I think it's great but if we can't get that Dell Lane to uh the residence from where you got it in the drawing here I I've got to be a no guys and I'm not trying to be orry it's just I am that concerned about a ninth fatality in that little area that's all thanks or go ahead and answer if you want but yeah I was just going to say as an engineer and I'm in our traffic consultant too we've talked about this left turn before it actually came up and he even stated in his report he wouldn't be comfortable even if it wasn't required by traffic counts but we don't think that would be the case we would we wouldn't do this entry without a left turn lane like a Dell Lane or have it be right and right out so from a engineer perspective we wouldn't want to see this as a a car waiting in the through Lane to make a left turn either so I think in the initial presentation I got you guys didn't have that decent show a lot of uh roadway improvements on our um PDS because it's also go through D and D won't really give a thorough review until we actually submit construction PL so I apologize for that so we did draw that in after the fact to show you what we' actually want um what we'd actually bring to do but um it's either going to be that or it's going to be right and right out one of the two what but I I guess obviously you know my distrust of dot because they've gotten it wrong twice already at the L the cost of eight lives um I just want an assurance that if dot doesn't allow it and says again for the third time there's no need for it what Assurance do we have that there won't be left ends going in right that's all and then his traffic report addressed it as well so yeah good afternoon Iman s with traffic Mobility Consultants um would like to go to the next slide with the pictures in it please no one more the one with the with the Google Street [Music] View one more yeah so uh I want to add that there has been many studies done that determine that roundabouts are not only traffic control measures they're also traffic calming devices so they actually by default they calm traffic down which is a major safety uh feature and roadways and you see a lot of me round inside uh subdivisions mainly for calming traffic down and in this picture on the right and all the Middle top picture you see the sign it's not very clear on the right of the bridge that sign is a sign that there is a roundabout coming up and it's like like a warning to reduce it's like an advaned warning for people to start reducing their speed and they put these signs by their Le their required every time you have a roundabout before you approach the roundabout they have to be signs telling drivers that the roundabouts are approaching which basically gets the driver in the mode of slowing down because they're going to approach a 15 m per hour round about to maneuver the round so you cannot they're designed the roundabout is designed to enter it at 15 M mil hour speed limit so when you're driving at 40 you're going to start to slow down before you get to the R so by the time you get to the entrance where there will be a turn lane if obviously as we just said if the approves it we will have to put the left turn lane but regard you know even with that by the time you get to the turn lane you're going to be at a lower speed even lower than 40 mil per hour because you're Again by default slowing down just wanted to add that I may ask you a question then so in these pictures the top left picture that's a looking East while you're on the bridge yes in the Horizon there is the round correct so using that logic why did we even put a roundabout in why didn't we just put a slow down sign up because slowing slow down sign there one there's no sign that says slow down I mean there's no A reduced speed limit why why if it wasn't necess not it is necessary that's that's why they put it because of the fatalities what I'm saying is the roundabout is serves two two uh purposes it is a traffic control measure meaning it could be a traffic signal is traffic control a stop sign is a traffic control roundabout is a traffic control which basically controls the movement of the traffic at two intersecting roads the second purpose of a roundabout and in my opinion actually the first purpose of the roundabout is calming traffic because by default again you have to slow down to maneuver the roundabout you cannot go through the roundabout even if you're going straight you cannot go at 40 m hour or 30 or or it has to be down to 15 or 20 Max so so that's that's the reason again why they put that on the but and just one of the points to kind of clarify if you're looking at that top left corner image it actually doesn't show the roundabout in the distance because the issue with the original accident with the view ability the road kind of comes down and over like that so what you're looking at is Eastbound and you will see where our driveway is that visibility is there but it's not hard to say that back in 2016 that there wasn't there was more of a of a topography issue because that's what you you had brought that up initially and we looked into that and that Topography is happening West I'm sorry east of where our driveway is so from a standpoint of if if your concern's coming over the bridge and being surprised you've got a clear view corridor to the point where you're at our left turn lane and you're already starting to slow down uh because of the roundabout that's coming up I I wish I had the capacity to kind of like play video as you kind of come through um but that skill eludes me entirely so uh one more thing Mike we we uh designed the turn l in length the left turn laye length long enough to handle the maximum q that could be there for the left turns so that they don't block the through traffic so that if you're coming up someone is in the left turn they will never block the the the through traffic you're talking about the East you talking about traffic going eastbound going eastbound turning left into the project that turn lane the left turn lane is going to be long enough to handle the maximum queuing potentially there at the left turns so you will never have cars that are long stacked longer than the turn lane backed into the the through Lanes into the main road you have no control over 44 in creating a turn lane there dude you no we are creating a turn Lan off of Center from eastbound traffic going North yeah that's what we're saying we're adding a left turn lane SC I thought you said do had to approve it well yeah do has to approve it if they approve it that's that's the plan oh that's yeah but this is the same do that said that's not even a dangerous area twice but if they don't approve it then we're going to the right and right that's what we're trying to point of order well that that's point work I want to know I want to know what posture we're in cuz I think we're beating a dead horse here and I want to call the question because I don't know where we're at well where we're at is we're this is a quasi judicial hearing and there's still a lot of questions from Council so yeah but I think we've already passed questions and we're into the motion uh that passed that not sure if that's if that's the case at a quasi judicial hearing as we get more information it creates more questions thank you Mr chair then what I'll do is I'll just make a motion see if there's support but I'll just go a step further I call the question I move to call the question okay there's a motion on the floor to call the question uh I'll have to call Immediate vote on it that vote has to be um uh 3 fifths and it's uh not debatable no this is a motion to call the question or to vote on the actual issue I want legal guidance oh call the question first we have to have a vote on call the question because you're shutting off seven people that want to speak I'll wait for guidance it's a two-thirds vote two-thirds vote for what to close debate and proceed directly to the vote okay okay so you made a motion to uh to call the question was there a second to his motion second the second was by Danny Robbins motion by David Santiago to end debate have an immediate vote um all in favor of ending debate and calling immediate votes um call the role Please Mr Kent yes Mr Reinhardt yes Mr Robbins yes Mr Santiago yes Mr Dempsey no Mr Johansson yes Mr Brower no but the yeses have it to uh silence the uh the debate and um so now we will uh all the questions staff needs two clarifications the first vote is going to be on the underlying Amendment to the Future land use map and that would be changing it from rural to Commercial and urban low intensity if that is passed then the second vote would be on the rezoning to PUD and again that would allow for 121 single family homes upwards of 36,000 square feet as shown in the conceptual plan um and we did hear that there was concerns in regards to the driveway access or access off of 44 um that without the Dell Lane it would be restricted to a right in right out only yeah Mr chair I just Mr irin you tell me if you if I'm wrong so the discussion I heard about the churn Lane and the fountain requirement that would be appropriate discussion for item nine the Pud requirement correct that that that is why my motion stands without that information in for item eight which is the only item I opened okay chissa would you call the role on the the development um chairman yes sir Mr yes sir I I felt like those that had spoken had had their time but I don't like that Mr Dempsey voted no on that and I felt like he had more to say about that I want to change my vote on call the question okay so now it's not 2third correct so I just want to make sure we do this correctly I I want to give Mr Dempsey and Mr brow or anybody else that wants to finish this I don't want to shut them off I wouldn't like that if that happened to me I think that's council's will there I I just wanted to clarify that I think the discussions that you had Mr Dempsey had would be something that if you wish to put in the Pud not in the comp plan Amendment on item 8 so just item nine and and thank you that is that is why my motion held and I have my question up chairman I was going to bring that up that I could speak to that and maybe this is something Council wants to deal with I think part of the confusion on it because the presentation was dealing with both eight and nine together it kind of combined both issues so I understand why the discussion was going to that level of detail so where do we stand Mr chairman yeah before before we before we go any further Mr Kent has said he would change his his vote the vote was completed is that uh doable I question that as a parliamentary procedure because it would have to be a motion to reconsider the vote that was already fulfilled Mike no no you're right Mike lead lead us what we need to do because what you know what I want I want to change my vote I was on the prevailing side of it so I want to bring it up to change my vote to give councilman Dempsey and and our chairman opportunity to to finish their thought okay I know and if I may Mr chair CU I I know where you're going I'm just playing procedure here because I think you would have to make a motion to reconsider and then that would have to be considered it be I know we're making it complicated but we if be a motion to reconsider Mr Trent can make the motion because he was on the prevailing side of that motion it's majority vote correct so he would have to win that motion to reconsider correct yes I the reason why I made the the point though because I think a minute much of your discussion was about the churn Lane and the fountain and Council will have that opportunity for the item nine I because your vote that motion was only on item eight so so don you you'll have an opportunity at item nine to talk to finish your your talk on that okay okay I'm I'm I'm good okay so we're back to where we were and uh calling the question um chrisa call the role Please Mr Kent yes Mr Reinhardt yes Mr Robbins m Mr Santiago yes Mr Dempsey no Mr Johansson yes Mr Brower no motion carries 5-2 for the uh small scale comprehensive plan amendment that takes us to the followup item item nine the rezoning of West New York Avenue from the rural agriculture zoning to a planned unit development staff or attorneys or anybody from applicant have anything to say before we I open it up here no okay um is there a motion motion to approve second motion to approve by councilman Robbins and the second when second was by uh Jake Jo or Matt Reinhardt okay uh is this for questions everybody that's up here okay uh councilman Robbins thank you um Mr Irving please as always no one is is discounting the need uh or the the um the reason why there's a roundabout there with this roundabout did it alleviate or decrease the number of crashes or injuries or deaths at that intersection I don't have that statistic handly available to me I would have to go back and verify the reason why it was put in place was to improve the overall efficiency and effectiveness of the intersection so that it could be traversed safely and REM again address the concerns that were identified okay now moving on is there a turn lane in the plan moving forward to address what we've heard in the prior item what we've heard from the applicant and they've made a commitment to is that they will work through with do and if they are seeking a full access driveway or excuse me roadway intersection on 44 or the only way they would do so is if they were to put in a turn lane with adequate stacking and transition if they are denied the full access then the turn lane would not be put in okay so there is an additional layer of protection here with the uh review by obviously dot uh and their experts they've heard us loud and clear on what we're looking for I don't want to absolutely beat this thing and just turn it turn everybody completely off here um okay so we got that covered um is it a requirement uh you know we we talk about uh uh getting out of U um The public's way or land owner's way is it a requirement uh for these plus plus plus plus pluses in terms of fountains and all these other chachkas that that we personally may like or is this something that um are these required they are not part of the requirements of the code they are part of an ability that the council has to negotiate sure in order to balance out the reduction in development standards to balance out for public benefit all right I think that covered the majority of everybody's concerns thank you okay um I've I wanted to vote uh yes for this for this reason we're building SunRail it's going to cost us somewhere between 6 million1 million a year I actually want people to be on that train um will this help it I I don't know one of my fears is that now every development within um you three or four miles of SunRail will be uh you know will be qualified as a a SunRail Community I don't I don't know this one actually stands the possibility for that the 50 Foot Lots um don't bother me uh Troy in fact I think it's I think there is a good market for 50 foot Lots um and I think it's one of the ways to get to a true lid development um we probably could have got to that here's a reason I'm not able to vote for it today I'm going to be a no because there's too many unknowns for me yet that I have to wait and see how it all works out like the right turn right only um like the can can the the engineer change the way the retention area uh goes um um I those things I think we need to we need to settle before we let people get this far um so um I'm just going to stop there Matt Reinhardt what about me chairman next on the list I thought Troy Kent would would you like to speak thank you yeah I appreciate it clay quick question for you clay is it is it appropriate to negotiate from the de items like air rated fountains that can light up on items like this staff will never never tell the County Council what they can and can't do on the smart smart smart move smart moved by staff um yeah you know was it was referenced by uh a councilman that is chachis I don't think an air rated fountain that helps with algae and aesthetically is pleasing to have it lit up at night is a Chach key I would consider a keychain a Chach ke morocca maybe visiting you know a country to the South a Chach ke but but not something like this so um I'm I'm still for that and I hold through what I said earlier I'm I'm going to vote no and if it if it goes down no because the maker of the motion knew I I wanted this I purposely didn't jump out and do it because I wanted to see and I saw so if it is voted down no I will make a motion to include the fountain with the Iration and uh and the light wish you the best councilman Reinhardt thank you chair I just clay I have one question for you just clarification because I think I heard it right so the turn lane has been identified if fdot approves the turn lane they will include the turn lane that satisfies some concerns correct yes sir if the turn lane was not approved by fdot did I hear correctly that you will do the right turn in right turnout that's my understanding of what that's ID so check check yes sir thank you and let me just kind of clarify um and I'm sorry for going on about this do will look at it in regards to a variety of different factors how many cars are projected turn left into the site etc etc that will dictate the length all of the issues in regards to the length of the uh turn lane the transition area and if it doesn't meet the requirements of do they will not approve got full I got it my my thing was if they don't do the turn lane which you're willing to do that you are going to accommodate the right turn in right turnout only so one way or another it's safe or thank you councilman Santiago thank you Mr chair and thanks for asking that clarification Matt because I think that does solve um Don's uh questions or concerns at least it gives them the the safety U portion of that it'll be looked at from that perspective one or the other is going to show up um but I just wanted to say that you know I don't have a problem with any council member me individually um when we're doing a PUD to to ask for something um is if it's reasonable and the applicant is willing to accept it they know their numbers they know how much buffer they have to do certain things so I would you know if any of you at any time had something that's reasonable um and I I I can see myself supporting it so I'm okay with that so I know it's not in the motion give my friend his Fountain regardless of what happens okay um and um Mr chairman I I guess I just wanted to respond to your comments um not adversarial but just from the perspective of that you're stuck on voting no because the unknowns I think you'd said right and the problem is that that's the process right there are certain things that are in this already um well documented process to get things approved and some of are State uh requirements and some of our requirements that we would probably never get to some of those answers at this stage of the game um and I get it you maybe you want to change that process right but I think it's it's something that we can't change Alone um I just want to to share that I I respect your thoughts but I don't know if it could be applied fairly to the applicants because it will never happen unless things happen in other areas that are beyond our control so I just wanted to add that to my comments thank you councilman dempy um so Mike I don't know if this is a question for you or clay what guarantees can we have that there will either be a do approved left in from the eastbound lane or if that's denied that it's only going to be right in right out on 44 at that location well there's two ways we can handle it one that can be uh added to the final uh development uh order for the Pud that access off of 44 at the Western driveway shall be right in right out only unless d allows for full access including a left turn lane in eastbound State Road 44 if you want to make that as part of your motion that could be a condition because I believe what I'm hearing is the applicants have agreed to that that that mean that's a commitment from y'all Mike it'd be a motion it'd be a motion to amend the motion on the floor you can add that and um anything else it is a PUD so okay all right I don't know how what where we are in this process but I'm I'm a yes for this if we can get that guarantee that this project will not happen unless there's a left in left out approved by dot for eastbound traffic looking to turn north into the subdivision or right in right out only because I don't want there to be a ninth even that paper Ben Johnson said I advise my family to go around the intersection whenever possible it's D dangerous there guys I'm not making this up to try and Jack you around I mean it's dangerous and I'm concerned about it that's the only reason why I'm saying all this and you can make that motion now as a motion to me you there's a motion on the floor to approve as is but you could make an amendment a motion to make an amendment and then we have to vote on it and if it passes you get what you want and then we have the vote on the main motion I think I can make this simple what's that what I can make this a whole lot without through all this um I'll make a motion to amend my motion Don say your motion say say my amend to approve subject to the limitation that the southern entrance to the neighborhood is limited to either right in right out from the northbound lane of 44 or if do approves a left in from eastbound 44 turning left into the subdivision to the north um then that that be approved otherwise it's right in right out only at the along 44 and I'll keep my second okay thank you okay so that's still Mr robbins's motion Matt Reinhardt second and um Don gets a a turn lanane uh and I don't see anybody else that wants does everybody understand the motion okay uh just one final thought since you you um uh uh directed your comments to me um Santiago and uh I think it a a fine and acceptable way yeah I look at a lot of what we do that I understand the process and that we make a vote and then it's out of our hands and it goes somewhere down the line and often we have projects that come back to us that um are not beneficial to the public that they suffer from either from traffic from from flooding um in in this case the uh the traffic passed I you know I question that school board said no problems I don't know if the school board has ever denied something saying that they have okay um uh so I have to deal with what we can deal with here and and not kick it down the road but the motion on the floor is to approve uh the rezoning um subject to the uh South entrance uh limitation and the right on right out that um that um councilman Dempsey has brought up uh Chris you want to call the role again Mr Kent uh no Mr Reinhardt yes Mr Robbins yes Mr Santiago yes Mr Dempsey yes Mr Johanson yes Mr Brower no and the motion carries five- two we that was that was the main motion now Mr Santiago restated his motion or Mr Robbins I'm sorry okay clay item 10 ordinance 2023-the forever for acquisition it is changing the designation to be consistent with purposes of uh um conservation yall have already approved it for transmitted to the state they've come back with recommendations of approval with this it's the adoption of the comp plan Amendment to the Future land use amend map motion to approve thank you and we have a motion by Danny Robbins to approved second by David Santiago uh questions for staff then all in favor say I I any opposed John Nicholson I see that I missed you in the last one so you can speak at the end motion is carries was everybody in the room was Troy in the room pardon me yeah we'll have to get his vote when he comes out unless you want to Don you want to go in the bathroom and ask him not really no I'm kidding item 10 at 60 until we hear Troy Kent's vote yeah tick tick tick when we get to item 11 it will be um ordinance 202 4-13 update to Valia County ordinance chapter 14-45 yes okay so item 10 was 7 to zero all right Mark Swanson good afternoon County Council and Staff Mark Swanson public protection director item number 11's an ordinance for amending Article 2 of chapter 14 repeal and repealing section 1445 by deleting Provisions relating to licensing of dogs cats and fer ferrets and amending Provisions related to feeding of feral animals the ordinance only applies to the unincorporate areas of the county and L of strict licensing requirement animal service will be promoting pet uh microchipping as an alternative to increase pet retention and prevent loss pets within the community and these proposed changes are presented to the Animal Control Board on 320 of 24 and with a recommendation of approval any questions we'll be happy to answer okay questions uh Danny Robbins motion to approve the removal of the required requirement for licensing of animals in the unincorporated areas of Belia County second councilman Robbins makes a motion to approve uh Matt Reinhardt makes the second um any questions for staff debate comments then all in favor say I I and we have all seven of us here so the the U update is pass 7 to zero and here comes the Votran lady item 12 Votran fairs discussion good afternoon Bobby King transit services division director I'm here to talk to you about um the process for uh the consideration of a fair increase um so if there's ever going to be a consideration for a fair increase we must go through a federal process um it's pretty detailed so I wanted to share that information with you so we are regulated by uh Federal Transit Administration we have to follow um a pretty strict guideline on uh the process for um a fair increase so that includes sorry I guess I could start my presentation sorry okay so that would include um quite a bit of public Outreach um we would go countywide uh multiple meetings at least six um in-person meetings possibly seven um at least one virtual meeting and during during those um during those meetings we will ask for comments uh written we'll put um requests on the bus for people to uh give us comments but we must have a 30-day window for comment period and we also have to go to the tdcb to share the uh pair Transit rates with them as well so once we've finished all of our public meetings we have to put together a full report on it um it's a title 6 uh Fair Equity analysis report and we will bring that back to you when we're done we're looking at that possibly being in August then the fairs could take possibly take place on January 1 20125 it's a rather lengthy process uh we would need to um change our uh tickets um our marketing information our fabox um data all kinds of stuff so let's get let's get into it so the first slide you're looking at here is our current our current fairs um single ride uh just one way is a $11.75 normal um rate we also have reduced reduced fairs for every single rate that we have as you can see and it's um uh currently we're seeing about $2 and5 million dollar in Revenue our pair Transit gold service is $3 um and we do do um uh roughly um 900 trips a day so this is what we're proposing for an increase um minimal increases um obviously the single ride is a 25 cent increase what I've prepared for you is also what we expect for revenue from those increases so um we're basing that on our current ridership numbers for each of those um individual Fair types and that can fluctuate um you know from time to time so there's no guarantee that's exactly what we will bring in for next year but if if it were similar to what we currently have this is uh kind of a guest on what we would have in Revenue um the following year so um we are discontinuing the 10day pass we don't see a lot of um interest in that pass so there's no reason really for us to continue to have that pass produced it cost us money to produce it and we do believe that people will migrate to a different pass um right now the the most popular pass is the one full day pass so you can get on and off all day long um as much as you want um followed by the 7-Day pass and Then followed by the 31-day pass we are recommending um or suggesting a $4 per Transit uh rate so we're allowed to bring you um double what we would charge for the fixed route cost so a single day fixed route cost would be $2 you can go up to double that and when I say you can um I think I mention to all of you all that we have to follow we have to follow kind of some rules about um keeping it Equitable we're not um it's really not it's frowned upon um to increase dramatically and we certainly can't go more than double what we choose for the fixed route um Fe so just a breakdown of how it changes of course um looking at uh 14% uh change in uh cash single cash ride 177% on the reduced um it's really minimal until you get to um the par Transit gold service chart that's a 33.3% increase you can go lower than that if you choose um a $3.50 rate would be um a six 16 and a half% increase uh so be similar to what we're recommending for all the other Fair types and that annual revenue uh would change obviously by a couple hundred, doll from what we proposed for the $ four so there's some assumptions that we have to take into account um anytime we do a fair uh increase the ridership drops a little bit um in at first and then it will pick back up so we expect kind of a 3% loss in ridership at first uh we also expect those 10-day ride pass holders to do the three-day pass or three three-day passes um and then here's a just a breakdown of of what we expect um in Revenue we expect fixed route to come in about $130,000 more a year per of Transit $267,000 combined about $400,000 um with a annual overall uh Revenue expected around $3 million so I want to also bring up bide um we incorporated bide into our service model back in December um we've now initiated um zone two in Delona de and Orange City area and it's uh very popular already in that area we do charge $2 um per oneway trip currently but we wanted to make sure that we didn't get into a situation where we have very long trips and now that we're into the second Zone we have a lot of area to cover and so a a $2 ride really becomes very uh inefficient when you take a 20 mile trip so we asked other agencies what they're doing in the similar scenario and there's a couple ways we could do this we can do this by adding um a dollar uh above what the average trip ride is which is 1 to eight miles right now and another dollar for anything over 15 to 20 most of our our trips are uh 1 to8 um miles right now that's about 70% of our our r Riders and then we would cap it at a 20 mile trip those are going to be very few and far between 15 to 20 and 20 miles are going to be very few and far between but if they can't find a way to transfer to a fixed route bus it could be possible and we don't we're not really wanting to eliminate somebody from getting a ride somehow So eventually um if we incorporate the extra dollars you know you could see a $5 or ride still a reason a $4 ride it's still a reasonable um Fair okay so where do we go from here um the reason we're bringing it to you ahead of time is so that we can go out and to the public uh we wanted you to see what we were proposing um we'll take this information out into the public and do meetings um we'll also ask for comments um and then we'll do that Equity analysis and bring it back to you for approval uh we're guested meeting in August and then again Fair changes will begin um January 1 if approved and that's my presentation thank you Bobby uh David Santiago thank you Mr chair move to approve for staff to go to the next step is there a second motion to approve and the uh second is by Matt Reinhardt so um you will bring back title six analysis and uh and recommendations we're not voting on a fair increase today right um so uh Vice chair Troy Kent thank you chairman and we're not voting on that fair increase but I will just say publicly that the Votran in my opinion is absolutely one of the best bargains on public trans that I have ever seen in any City where I've ever been and I think you have heard me before talk about small incremental increases and I think going from $1.75 to $2 is exactly that and even going from $3 to $4 you know um a 33% increase on that when you look at it percentage wise but when you look at how everything else has gone up in our everyday life this is the best bargain around so I absolutely support it as presented councilman Dempsey Bobby I know we talked about a week or two ago about this um and I guess we're not voting on it today but did you have a chance to go out and look to vot rides comparison to private taxi fairs or Uber or lift fairs so um I couldn't get anybody to talk to at Uber um but I did contact a local taxi here in Dand and asked them what their per mile rate was um and so this is the information that I have within a 5em trip here in town is a $10 ride over that is a $12 ride long as it's in town is what they told me and anything over uh I guess um that would be $2.40 a mile and that was from Primo or whom it was from Primo mhm okay um as you're aware um I was never for V Rod I'm all for Votran the buses I think that's a great thing but V Rod I don't like when the government starts competing with Private Industry because now we are in competing with Primo a private company and Uber and Lyft as well um so I guess my this probably isn't the time but the direction that I'm looking for is for us to make sure that VOD doeses not basically snuff out these other private sector businesses and at least make our rides fairs equal to Primo lift and Uber so that we're not unfairly hurting them in their efforts to try and stay afloat because it's got to be hard for them to compete with $2 fairs when they're charging $10 I mean doesn't take a genius to to see that they're going to tank before long so I just asked that if we can try and keep this at least to work we're not competing them against them with price differences thank you thank you uh Bobby I just wanted to say that um you know Don makes a good point I think that we've we're looking at different riders for different reasons I think there'll always be a a need for U uh for the Alternatives what I wanted to say though is that you have presented not this not fair increases but the whole V ride program at at the um Central Florida Community rail commission and I want the council to know that you have put Valia County on the map in Florida and maybe outside of Florida for this whole concept and I think it was both seol and Oola have asked you to come and to their counties and um show them what you're you're doing so you're uh you're you're breaking the rules here and and thinking out of the box and and making Valia County look really good and I I think we should all um recognize you for that and be thankful for it so I don't see anybody else that wants to uh speak so the motion on the table is to accept your report and ask you to bring back the uh the in the title six analysis and recommendations all in favor say I I any opposed and motion carries 7 to zero thank you item 13 Award of contract with Bentley Group Inc for the architectural engineering for the mosquito control services facility yes sir good afternoon Tad casbeer County engineer this is an approval of the contract with Bentley uh group to perform the architectural and Civil Engineering Services for the Mosquito Control Office over in new smna Beach uh the amount is listed the scope is included staff makes recommendation for approval motion to [Music] approve motion to approve by councilman Robbins and the second was by councilman Santiago questions comments all in favor say I I any opposed pass a 7 to zero item 14 annual comprehensive financial report combined countywide annual comprehensive financial report good afternoon County Council rowski Chief Financial Officer I'm joined by uh ly rice our accounting director uh this item is to present and then the auditor has a presentation he wants to go over uh that's been included in the packet uh kind of the standard uh slides that he always talks about uh this book is over 600 Pages your staff puts together about 500 of those pages the rest of them are uh either provided by the clerk of the court or the Sheriff's Office who prepare their own separate financial statements or the auditor's individual reports which now with our combined entity are over 60 pages and just audit reports of opinions on compliance and fair presentation of the financial statements Etc uh this report is for the fiscal year ended September 30th uh 2023 it's kind of the last chapter of 2023 if you think about it the budget was approved almost two years ago then we go through the year and then we actually come at the end and say where did we land where did our assets land where did our liabilities land and what were the real results of operations at the end of that year included in this book is a section called Management's discussion and Analysis if you have some time and you want to get like a summary kind especially in in history if you go back and look at prior years you can see the big Financial transactions or changes that occurred in our government over the last uh at least four or five years we've been doing a real thorough job of writing that Management's discussion and Analysis which is kind of it's a more English presentation as opposed to looking at hundreds of pages of just numbers and statements uh I'd say that this report is as complicated as it's ever been uh we got a new accounting standard that we had to implement this year which basically treats it subscriptions like your software arrangements as an asset and a liability because that's what the accounting standard Setters want to do to us in government accounting world uh every year they Implement something new and there are lots of complicated things in this book now not the least of which is the fact that it's all amendment 10 based and I give tremendous credit to the accounting division who has kept the same FTE Staffing number even though this book has basically doubled in size increased in complexity and quintupled in the amount of units that are involved because all of the Constitutional officers are separate Audits and separate financial statements uh with that introduction uh I think Lynn wants to add a few words of recognition just really quick I would really uh like to thank my accounting division all of my staff they all have a part of this whether it's the um the journal vouchers that are keyed to the um the reporting of the payments of the vendors to make sure that gets all the acrs are done and most notably my accountant uh professional accountant staff who is all here in the in the audience here and I would just like to thank them um I also thank the finance department grant accountants as well as the budget team um and of course just the finance department itself along with Mr O that's it and I would like to um introduce Zach chaler from James Mo company all right H good afternoon Zach sh for partner James Mor and Company uh I don't know if we have the PowerPoint in the packet or if I'm going to be live on here there we go um you know as Ryan said and Lynn also echoed there's a lot of work uh that goes into this so I just also like to take the opportunity to thank first the council as always for the opportunity to work with the county uh big thanks as well to Ryan Lynn the entire accounting and finance team within the county as well as all the Constitutional officers as Ryan indicated we effectively now this is year three of issuing really six separate audit reports we have the countywide audit and then each constitutional officer has an entirely separate set of audit reports specific to that office so lots of work from all sorts of people that really goes into uh this report uh in and kind of watching things to know when to come over I I know you guys have had a pretty long day so I'll try to keep it pretty brief um but of course any questions as I'm going are at the End by all means please feel free to jump in uh as Ryan noted the the county does prepare an AC for an annual comprehensive financial report uh last year's was awarded the certificate of achievement for excellence in financial reporting uh we expect to see that uh show up once again for the fiscal year 23 financial statements uh there are five reports that we issue on the countywide financial statements uh four of these also show up uh for each of the constitutionals so a very similar uh process no changes to the audit reports from the prior year so as Ryan talks about accounting changes it's kind of nice to have a year off where we didn't have to totally overhaul the uh actual audit reports uh the first one on the financial statements we did Issue an unmodified opinion which says that the County's Financial statements are fairly presented in all material respects this is what you want to see here effectively it's a clean audit report and then our second report the first of many in the very back of the document is on internal control and compliance uh while we do not audit the Count's internal control there's separate engagements that Focus uh on internal control if we come across any major audit adjustments or in our testing come across deficiencies and failures to follow process and controls in financial related are areas you know accounts payable payroll and so forth those could potentially rise to be reported here uh we had no material weaknesses or compliance matters identified in this report uh the second report is every year we perform a federal and state single audit just based off of the grant dollars flowing through the county uh this year we did on the um Grant side have one uh comment related to a Votran Grant which related to effectively we could not substantiate compliance uh in certain areas due to some IT issues with reproducing the documents I'm discussing with Ryan and team I know some of those issues already um had kind of been addressed with some of the transition going on there so it's one where um better to say know we just couldn't see it versus actually there were non compliance things not being done right when we looked at it so we did have to report that um but again you know from what what we've seen everything has really been addressed going forward we will be required to look at that grant program again next year and from what we've seen um you know hopefully we be able to clear that up in next year's audit uh the last two reports are those required by the state of Florida kind of a catchall looking at Financial condition any other potential red flags the state would want us to report back uh there were no such items identified in either of those so effectively two clean reports uh from the state requirement side there uh looking at your fund balance uh every year we like to look at your general fund balance say okay where are your Reserves at at the end of the year uh of course over the year the number of subf funds that roll into what we call the general fund for financial reporting purposes has grown so I show two numbers there to say here's the rollup totals versus here's what's in your 001 kind of your budgetary uh general fund the way that you guys look at it to show those differences in amounts in terms of when you look at the roll up why is that number uh so much more different from what you see uh on the budget side and that note there does identify all the different items you all your constitutional officers the EMS fund homeless as well as the the cares act and arpa money still being a good chunk of those dollars uh so again it's not exact because we're just drilling into the 001 but looking at the assigned plus unassigned fund balance really kind of your unrestricted residual Reserve about hundred uh $8 million most of that being assigned um in next year's budget related to emergency and other reserves uh relative to what you spent about 47% so about 5 A2 months there I will note again with this being just 001 uh general fund this denominator the expenditure side doesn't include you know EMS and other operational items that you know don't have a lot of reserves but do have a good chunk of expenses and we try to look at it holistically um bottom line here really is you know you guys are over the minimum looking at the minimum recommendation from the gfoa of two months although they do acknowledge that when you factor in being Coastal with susceptibility to hurricanes other natural disasters that being reasons to be higher and of course there's many capital needs out there in terms of what's in those budget reserves uh for the future use of those monies but again bottom line as a county is in a in a strong financial position uh going forward making use of some of those covid arpa monies as well as um you know where you're at with everything in your in your base operational funds uh look at your proprietary funds your Enterprise funds a four-year Trend here of your unrestricted net position kind of a very similar bottom line number uh some of the funds do have movement up and down we kind of look for any you know sustained movement to say hey are are these fees too low because you're not recouping your costs uh no major red flags kind of you know some movement up and down can be normal just based on timing differences of capital activity uh things of that nature the parking garage does show as a negative but moving in the right direction as that debt ultimately rolls off of the books and then just a couple other highlights on the grant side uh almost $80 million of federal and state Grant dollars spent to supplement uh the County's own funding uh Ryan did mention the one new accounting standard related to it subscriptions and I always just like to touch for the record that in the financial statements does show a massive liability called your net pension liability but really the key there I just again like to note for the record is that's really a theoretical number provided by the state for the county to disclose but the ongoing obligation with f FRS is every month BAS based on payroll the required contributions are made and we did note that was done on both the county side as well as all of the Constitutional officers uh so with that again wanted to make it quick but I'd be more than glad to answer any questions and thank you all again for the chance to be here councilman Reinhardt thank you chair real quick because I I may have missed it why was there a negative in the parking garage so there last year I believe was was there a transfer last year Ryan probably has the specifics so with the parking garage they're going through the deck uh the different decks resurface so oh that's for the maintenance issues okay and uh I think it was last year but it might have been the year no I'm thinking in terms of the audit was the year so in 22 the council approved a $1.9 million loan from the ocean Center to the parking garage that loan still for this book's purposes shows as a liability so it makes it look like there's a negative it's not like governmental funds where you're allowed I got you okay you're allowed to keep the the loan is off the books almost on a governmental fund basis so in the parking garage you record that loan as a liability so that loan Ocean Center makes it look like that fund is in a negative and I know that Zach mentioned that it's headed in the right direction aren't they doing a floor per year a preview of what might be to come there are more capital projects at the garage so there might be in the future another request for a loan but we do see in the long run the ability to repay that loan and then for that actually to be which makes sense I mean how it's exposed to the elements of nature absolutely okay all right thank you and uh councilman Santiago thank you a question on the Evac I don't know one of you can answer probably him over there but did I you you mentioned Evac briefly but is does Evac operate um Revenue neutral or is it our loss or subsid every year the EMS fund receives a subsidy from the general fund okay so the EMS fund right now has reserves related to uh mainly the pemt program it's the program where we draw down additional Medicaid dollars that has been a real influx to that fund uh it's been able to build up a little bit of a reserve but given the fact that that fund is subsidized by the general fund if if it was needed that whole Reserve legally is general fund money which is why it's part of the this book's general fund approximately how much do we put into it every year approximate I'm not going to hold you to it 6.7 million thank you Mr chair thank you can I have a motion to accept the uh audit motion to accept the audit as presented by councilman rinhart and the second by councilman Santiago all in favor say I I any opposed and it carries 7 to zero thank you one once again and now item 15 we will discuss recommended changes to the echo guide book good afternoon Brad bbal Community Services director so go over the echo guide recommended guide book changes so this is a process that your appointed advisory committee goes through each year after the grant cycle terms of modific recommended modifications this is part of the charge uh that is part part of the enabling resolution uh as you can see here um you know that they they periodically look and make recommendations to council you know the what they did on April 11th 2024 um is have the eight recommendations before you um that I will go over and explain the rationale and be happy to answer any questions as quickly as possible so the first change that's recommended is and this is just for consistency sake because and in one breath we say that you know that Echo values Echo values public private Partnerships um here's what the book reads eeko recognizes that public private Partnerships may be mutually beneficial private for-profit entities may be engaged to perform Management Services only if the echo goals and application commitments are maintained all management agreements existing our future must be approved by the county to ensure compliance with these objectives so uh what this is doing is just for consistency sake this does not allow for-profit entities to access uh the the grant program or Echo monies what it does is it allows for-profit entities um to manage or run facilities that are Echo facilities um so that's why the modification or or recommendation is an example of this um which will be coming before you in the future is Jackie Robinson so the Tortugas are a for-profit entity they lease and have a management agreement with the uh city of Daytona Beach uh to manage that facility any questions on this change I think this was the most the one I figured I'd get the most questions so I'll put it up front nope all right uh Danny no okay so this is just a clarification so when we talk about modifications or clarifications a modification is is a policy adjustment so for your sake um and a clarification is just clarifying um the rule to give the applicant more information so we say that if you are not completed you know with a a project on time that you'll not be eligible for additional funding and what this does is just operationalize and tells the individual uh until the project has been completed change three uh you know Council to um incite Trail development because it was um a priority of this Council or of previous councils um have said you know when you're developing a trail that's on uh the County's master plan so this is mostly for our cities because we have the trail set aside for County projects um you can use that property value as 100 up to 100% of the the value as the match um additionally what we're recommending or what the committee is recommending is to add a trail heads here as well they were not included so right now in order to close the gap on the river to Sea Loop we have about $70 million in funding from dot in their five-year work plan mostly in our m mostly in our East Side um Municipal Partners so what we're saying here Trail heads are not funded in the dot work plan so this gives them an opportunity or hopefully as a incentive to come to Ekko to develop those Trail heads so people can access the trail yes yes sir go ahead Mr Santiago has a question for you so let me explain a little further for you so right now 25% of land can be used as as match that's the max what we're saying here is that you can use up to 100% of the value of the property as match gotcha but aren't the trail programs County programs help me understand who can submit for a trail program Municipal Partners so we are we are not responsible for trail development alignment of within the cities um that is within their purview so they go to the dot as part of a secr they have to go to the TP do a feasibility study get it on the list um discuss alignment it's very political and those urban areas um you know for example I would say that our Municipal Partners on the east side are a little behind the county because they are going through a more urban environment and there's more consternation about the alignment of the trail um so as I said uh $70 million is in the work plan to to support the connection of the river to Sea Loop which is our kind of our signature Trail um just for consistency and looking at the entire program where other types of land projects considered um and what I'm saying is that you know I'm not obviously let me first put a disclaimers before I get all you know beat up I'm not against Trails I think they play a part right and I like them and I've used them same comment though I think looking at the big picture I want to make sure that that we are looking at policy changes such as this holistically that maybe other and I don't know the answer to this I'm asking there may be other worthy type of land projects that should be considered for 100 uh% or 75% or up whatever it might be why specifically well question would this be the only one that has a 100% match I it's like a two-part question I guess so this would be uh Trail and Trail heads so Trails is current so if you're developing a trail I'm talking about the entire Echo program I just want to make sure clear is would this if we may adopt this change would that category be the only one that are eligible for 100% match Trails of trails Head trail heads yes okay so all other types of projects are not eligible for 100% match 25% yes sir see there there's where my my problem lies and I didn't know that um again nothing specific against or for trail heads um but I would be more interested in looking at how do we what do we want to look at category-wise that may be more worthy of a let's say 50% 30% I don't whatever the number the council decides but to single out one without what I probably guess is not a very thorough uh uh a vetting of other potential worthy projects I'm particularly bothered by that I'm not blaming you I'm just just saying for the council to consider maybe we ought to look at broadening that if we want to and I'll I'll leave my comments there Mr chair to see what others think toward the end but I think there's a lot of other potentially worthy projects that could be worthy of this and I hate singling out one BR did this come from the committee or from staff it came from staff okay based on my conversation with our Municipal Partners um who were trying to establish some trail heads um the so I I totally agree with you this was put in there as an inducement as an incentive to try to get some of the I like the reasoning don't get me wrong don't take if you want to make adjustments based on your priorities that would this would be the place you go what what other potential priorities do we have that can participate in Echo do we want to give a little bit more leverage to um and I don't know the answer so maybe based on the comments we may want to wait on this but that's it Mr Cher is is Tim Bailey in the room no is this um the it doesn't matter you'll know the answer the County's trail system is nearly complete our I say our signature Trail our portion of the signature Trail uh is close okay yes now there sorry no go ahead finish so there is if at the master plan we have the signature trails and when we're finished that there's a bunch of arteries that connect our rec recreational assets would would be the next step right what I'm wondering is if this is really to help the cities who are who are kind of behind because of what you said it's it's easier for us in rural areas it's harder for them going through cities um right aways all of that does this help the cities complete their sections of the trail it would help it would help them fund portions that are not where funding is not provided by dot as part of the okay um their work plan so Trail heads are not included um in that fdot funding whereas we we have six more Trail heads to construct based on the master plan and the county portion we'll use the echo set aside to do that okay thank you any other questions about this section uh Danny Robbins thanks chair and and David I kind of the roundabout way same concerns um with this and I think it's worthy discussion if if you're going to pull 10 and 26 I'll second it uh that way we can look at things um uh holistically and see if there's any other um projects or properties that that we can adjust as well while we're on this subject and and if we decide to go with uh 100% hey we we can go with 100% but I I think it's worthy but um just a couple other quick things David and then we can come back to that um I agree with the cities also need to play a little bit of role in this too if if we're close to our development granted this is everyone's money so I'd like to have their input as well and see if they can like like we talked about earlier if they can come to the table with something uh to to help out um do our new or updated I shouldn't say new are updated Park impact fees can any of that uh impact fee money from the parks be applied to this to Trail construction yeah since it's under Parks I would have to defer I think that it needs to be a regional or a local park and I don't know if Trails would qualify to meet that definition um Pao is the one who's helped us and he's just I think we we increased it by hundreds or if not thousands of percent uh impact fees and that and also to we Council approved I think it was last Council uh million and a half dollars additional for Trails how are we sitting with that that money in the kitty is some of that going to be able yes sir when when when you are elected was a million dollars and the recommendation of the echo advisory committee was that year to increase it once it was reauthorized to 1.5 million um there is a plan for that money um right now we're using do money for the construction of the trails but none of that money can be used um for the purchase of the for the purchase of land to run the the trail through so there are some parcels that will have to um be acquired some probably have to go through the imminent domain process you cannot use Dot money for that right but that that 1.5 million what what can that be used for again can that be used for what we're trying what you're trying to accomplish to purchase and build the trail heads yes sir okay I just I'm trying to see how many overlapping funding sources do we have here and when do we consider possibly um looking at other things uh to allocate this money for um what else is there something specific that U other than just Trail heads do we have anything in the hopper uh that we need this for uh or this funding for immediately that we couldn't tap into possibly the impact fees if applicable or that million and a half dollars there's something pressing where we had to do this today no sir okay David I'll I'll support you if you wanted to so again this was for the municipal Partners we as I said we have the set aside what we use to to build these these six Trail heads that are left on our signature Trail program so we're we're talking that these the grants and a is separate from the set of the 1.5 which is kind of like a direct County expenditure okay before we leave this uh Jake Johansson yeah I I have a a quick question I guess I'm not confused but I want clarification so the the trail head right now is 25% it theost it could be yes it could be 25% now so so let's let's play the John nichon scenario back with the sports complex say we call Daytona and Daytona says yeah we're doing this we got this big section of land out here we go let's glom onto that with our with our Echo would we say to them that well you're the cost of that that land is only you can only apply 25% of it according to the echo guide book right now if they applied for Echo for that program that is correct so the land value they could use up to 25% of their match so a quarter of every dollar would be if they applied for a grant the the value of that property they but if it was a trail head and we changed it it would be 100% yes so so I I I now have the same question that that David does what what makes a trail head more important important than some other recreational thing that a that a city has land for uh when they can only use 25% I I I I'd like to I think I'd like to investigate that more I I don't want to I don't want to Discount Trail heads I want I don't want to favor it's kind of like everything else why can't we speed things up for everybody why does it have to be only for affordable housing why just Trail heads why not for for everybody so if if we can do this and and more or do less all around and and make it Equitable I'm I'm interested in that thank you David Santiago I was going to make a motion I know you got the rest of them but I don't know if any of my colleagues got questions on the others I I'll make the motion then we go from there I I moved to approve uh the recommendations with the exceptions of number 10 and number 26 so we can have further discussions with staff as soon as possible so page number 10 and page number 26 both related to Trail heads so it would be moving removing this one and then our definition of trail head which is this I I believe they're labeled number three and eight and eight okay um it's page number I'm so sorry I'm reading Pages yes so that that's what I'm referencing was recommended change number number three and number eight we will deal with them together and and whatever else we want to include so you want to approve everything else and except for three and eight is there a second to that okay uh councilman Robbins makes the second and you're not going to get to make the rest of your brilliant speech okay any other questions all in favor of of of uh approving all of the changes except for three and eight uh say I I any he opposed one one thing if I may add and I think what would provide some relief to our Municipal Partners what I'm what I'm hearing from folks is to when we set the the maximum Grant award the construction costs have risen dramatically since then so I think if you were looking at some kind of wholesale relief to our Partners um across the board that may be the the right strategy yeah I think ideas will be great for us to choose Thank you Mr chair sorry okay that brings us to item 16 one that we all have to deal with um property insurance yeah they don't like me good afternoon chair council members Dana page Human Resources with me today is Charles Spencer our risk manager and in the audience is Justin ancelmo from Brown and Brown our broker of record we're requesting approval of our renewal of property insurance um the policies are with various C carriers that are outlined in the agenda item we saw an overall increase of about 16% of which a little over 6% was due due to an increase in values and at this time we're here if you have any specific questions councilman Robbins Mr Shel do you have any questions go ahead can you repeat the uh the the changes the increase in what I didn't hear it clearly increase in values is was about 6% of the increase and assess values of of the buildings is that what you saying or replacement cost I'm Charles Spencer the County Risk manager the buildings you have to declare a state of value on your property schedule and for various reasons they can increased it could be through the purchase of additional new properties which we've had as an example this coming summer we'll be adding on Woodland Square which will cost about 125,000 more a year so that's one example can you speak a little closer to the mic I'm sorry property values are based off the value to rebuild the property from the ground up and you have to declare that value on your property schedule and you're charged a premium based off of that but since construction costs go up each year your values even if you don't buy any new property or build any new property will continue to rise because you have those values need to rise so we raise those about 4% and then on top of that we've added new properties to the schedule as well so we put on about an extra $505 million do our do our carriers require us to ensure up to replacement cost yes to they have to declare the replacement cost on there so if it's undervalued as an example when I started we had the Ocean Center on there for $89 million well that was what it cost to build when we built it which was a long time before and I went out there and I looked around and realized it's worth at least twice this because they came along and did another extension so I had to increase that from 89 to 150 million at that point in time are there portion what portions of the County's uh liability is self insured and what what types of policies I should say well workers comp general liability Auto liability public officials um Employment Practices and then we have the we have the uh deductible large deductibles for your for your property insurance and what are the percentage of those is it by percentage or it's percentage or minimum in the new policy it's 1 million minimum for Windstorm with a or 5% of of the value of the property that's damaged not all the properties of the county owns just the damaged properties so whichever comes first sorry colleagues I'm just trying to the larger drill out some some questions here um I'll just use this facility this is a kind of like a bunkered facility for me you know I'm not a construction guy but I kind of consider it a bunkered facility when was the last time we had a claim on this facility that penetrated our our uh deductible we haven't had claims on this facility but if we take it off it won't be insured in the event there's something that happens like a fire whatever so we also have uh FEMA requirements and uh I don't see uh Ryan right now but uh they review us and they review our insurance and if we're not carrying enough then they're not covering us so and if anything they're getting tougher okay uh as time goes on they want communities uh to be better insured remember they're the insure of Last Resort yeah no I get it and and Al my intent with the questions just kind of drilled down there's there potential for are we over insuring ourselves I don't know the answer uh and do we need insurance on everything based on historical uh uh analysis that's the only reason I'm asking the question there are things that we don't put on there uh we do I do look at those in the past we we didn't have um the restrooms out at the beach on there because you have a lot of those the value is not much of them in those days it was $100,000 and they were concrete cinder blocks that was it with metal toilets or something like that but recently we did have to purchase coverage on those because For the First Time in our history we lost one of those things so FEMA comes in and says well now you have a duty to obtain and maintain so we had to go back otherwise we wouldn't be eligible for future FEMA funds and the deductibles are based on each individual uh facility or is it an overall deductible for the county by the policy well there's a um there's a minimum of a million so if you have less than a million dollars spread across 10 buildings of damage then you don't get anything at all once you cross that million then you're looking to see is that amount more than 5% of the total values of those properties and if it is then you get the amount that's over the 5 per. understood thank you Mr chair Vice chair Kent thank you chairman so we're looking at a 16% increase $94,400 800,000 some out there might say a million bucks close to it right yeah the coverage limits are 25 million for a currence for a nam storm for flood it's 20 million that's the limit deductibles 5% with a minimum of a million doll ACC currents so my question is how many claims we have last year none none two those two would have were in TW those yes but that was in 2022 that wasn't last year was it we had storms last year in 2023 we had hurricanes that was September we're not having any misre what we might be thinking is a difference in fiscal year for fiscal year 23 both September 28th was Hurricane Ian so all the rebuilding and stuff that's occurring now uh all the FEMA claims so definitely Nicole and I classified Ian when I said that hurricanes don't go by fiscal years insurance policies go by by the insurance policy year that's where I was going to go with that that was two policies ago that was thank you it was I agree with you it was two policies ago so we had zero claims last year yes sir but we're having an increase of almost $800,000 well the principle theoretically behind insurance is that we all share in each other's losses and by doing that then it's affordable for everyone and so I I could go along with that if we also shared with everybody's profits well I mean I I'm in the insurance industry and I I I'm I'm not trying to to give I I I think you are doing a wonderful job and thank you for the information have have we how long have we been um with Brer Brown and have we have we shopped around and looked at prices and how if so when and what's it look like every five years we do go out to bid and then we get the responses back and it has it's been with brown and brown since before I was here 800 Grand with no claims I'm struggling a little bit another question if I could interject well if I may interject if you take the amount that we've paid out that they've paid out and claims over the past several years it's actually exceeded the amount that we've paid into premiums and one one year we got $8 million and we had only paid in maybe three million that was the year that was in 2017 and then um we've had several others I appreciate you sharing that councilman Santiago nope I'm done he answered my question okay uh councilman Robbins motion to approve second have a motion to approve the increase by uh Danny Robbins second by uh Matt reinard any other questions debate all in favor say I I any opposed thank you to it's a tough vote okay that brings us to our final we've got uh two request to speak the first is John Nicholson John nson Tona beach side um going back to something we talked about earlier that small $41 million baseball field from Echo a a singular Grant of 41 billion $41 million for a ballpark um the super grants are like usually three million if you get a super Grant from Eko it's three million and no none of you blanked I was just I was really surprised because are we changing the policy of Eko to that we give out $41 million to whatever cities want um but it shocked me but I also want to say that the staff was gracious enough to um uh give me a some meeting thank to Mr uh Kent um for a long time I had mentioned that the city of Daytona Beach uh contributed to volution Forever and got nothing back well it's true we don't get anything back we also don't have anything that we can buy in our city but uh I do want to say that I always estimated we were giving in about 20 million bucks it turned out to be less than 19 million so my numbers were off but not by that much I don't think uh secondly um the Motocross I'm sorry Don but um I'm seeing a much larger uh venue in the future um I was in Miami when this small little tiny flight school left Miami to go to Daytona Beach and turned into Emy riddle Aeronautical University huge increase NASCAR they raced on the beach built a venue out west huge fa facility I'm anticipating if we do it right that the area that you're talking about one would hate the neighbors would hate it you'd get like 2,000 signatures on it but secondly there's no room to grow and if it did it would really destroy the neighborhood that's why I recommend the North End especially since I heard earlier that the um softball diamonds baseball diamonds uh were in a wetlands and youd have to fill it in and I was told we couldn't do it on the North side because it was Wetlands well if you can do wetlands in Orange City you can do wetlands in Daytona Beach uh third on Race uh I was at a uh City Commission meeting last Wednesday uh somebody asked me to vote for her candidate and I said no because I'm I'm voting for The Other candidate because I know her she was on our C board I helped her husband uh renovate their business and then she said oh you're you're not going to vote for my candidate because she's black and I'm like I didn't know your candidate was black she refused used to show up at a beats Side neighborhood watch debate so I never saw her knew nothing about her but the first thing that came to the person's mind was race we've got to stop thinking about race thank you Pamela Walker afternoon my name is Pamela Walker I've been here before I'm here to speak on homelessness I'm a victim of homelessness I've been here in this city for two years I moved here in 2022 to a home off of 1209 South Delaware this home was not in any reasonable should have been rented okay after I was put out the home had eviction on me I'm not able to rent anything I got that eviction probably off my record so I filed for another one when I moved to Daytona to this slum Lord this abusive uh landlord that I had so now I'm dealing with it this is a copy of a um where I file for a second stay and I you know I'm just at a at a pinpoint I mean I'm out here living in my truck with my animals I'm I'm being abused by animal trolls saying I'm abused my animals I'm not going to jail for any animals I have four animals that I've been dealing with since the storm end female refusing to pay for my housing because they said that I didn't have no hotel receipts where if you're living in your car with your animals you're not going to have any hotel receipts so you know I'm dealing with this now and I mean it's just really ridiculous so I need somebody to try to help me to get this last eviction off and it's not just me I have two elderly men one is also living in in a car another one he's he's a past cancer person and he's been putting out of his house because the person has sold his house and he was living in a room so he's out there too we're all working people in our 60s so we need some help here thank you thing I'm in a program that's called disability Solutions in Daytona that's supposed to help with housing I'm finding out now they have two Extended State hotels ever since August last August I was in this program still don't have any housing because they being I'm using my Social Security money to you to buy rent a U-Haul to get around with my animals in in the U-Haul renting motels and then they taking over a month to refund my money back so somebody needs to investigate them also thank you and that brings us to uh closing comments uh we'll start with the county manager uh yes sir thank you uh a couple things I just wanted to uh let everyone know that uh uh we officially launched the vuia County permit and code conier Service uh it's staffed by Economic Development folks and it does provide residents and business owners with a dedicated liaison to act as a single point of contact in assist with their pitting and code needs and navigating those processes uh they could help uh with a variety of other County services including planning Land Development building permits fire code requirements and uh that is now officially up and operating um the other thing I wanted to bring up uh the workshop that uh we had uh previously had scheduled it's been moved uh we went back and ran uh calendars and dates uh it looks like the week of July 22nd U specifically Tuesday July 23rd if you wanted to keep on a Tuesday Thursday schedule at 3 uh there are openings for everybody who would be uh in the workshop so if if that uh works for everybody or could we could do the 22nd or the 24th but I was just trying to keep to the Tuesday schedule so it could be anywhere between there 22 to 24 23 being Tuesday you think is the best can we have you sent this out at an email to everybody yeah I well if you guys are good with it all I need is really kind of a head nod that everyone's good uh I'll put it yeah can everybody look at their calendar and see if that would July uh 22 23 or 24 and I'm Target 23 for 3 pm Workshop good good all right that's good hold on chair can we lock this in I can lock it in with a motion cuz we got to yeah Ser yeah let's um and if if somebody can't make it we we still do it motion to have the workshop on July 23rd at 3 P.M second all in favor say I okay July 23rd lastly uh just quick uh tomorrow uh there'll be quite a few of us and I don't know if any of you will be there but uh we are honoring National tourism and travel week and uh there'll be a I know quite a few County people uh I'll be there as well given a little uh discussion and thank you to our all the folks in the tourism industry in Bela County which is a one of our largest if not our largest employer so and that's it Mr chair can you clarify who seconded the the motion for the workshop uh second for the workshop was um the motion was Danny Robbins the second was anybody second it motion was Johansson I believe second by Robbins right okay yeah I did have the the motion by Johansson so we'll say Mr Robbins made the second okay Mr County attorney Michael Dyer yes uh on March 5th you discussed uh you requested some more information on dissolving the animal control board Library advisor board uh we can bring that send that out to you or just generate an agenda item with the proposed ordinance and you can vote it up or down that might make it one agenda item instead of two discussions but if you if Council has a preference for how us to proceed happy to follow it um there was a third board reference that's your business incubator board I'm going to send an email to you about that that is required in our contract with UCF so um we can terminate that contract I know you weren't discussing that but that that's a unique board it's required by our contract yeah and and let me just add the incubator I think it's a separate different animal different animal something we're going to be talking as we move into the budget similar to what I think uh councilman Johansson said earlier these are some of the things where we're writing a check said so there'll be discussions or presentations uh from those agencies so I would say set that aside yeah uh and just concentrate on uh the uh so unless you had an objection we can just generate the agenda item with the proposed ordinance for animal control board and Library Advisory Board and you can vote it up or down if you wish okay any objections do it thank you thank you and that brings us to council members uh Mr Troy Kent thank you chairman Council just a few comments um earlier today we were talking about the importance of better paying higher wage jobs in our our County and Foundation risk partners and their owner CEO Charlie ler shared with me that of course their headquarters are in Valia County on Granada Boulevard and Orman Beach they're almost $700 million in annualized revenues with 2,500 employees countywide national headquarters of course are here with 125 very high high paying jobs right here in in Valia County I wanted to share that with you all the next thing I want to to share with you is I know that you all because I received several emails recently about um some individuals that don't that they want us to stop immediately the um dog friendly section of our beach or um it what's it called what are we doing pilot thank you the pilot program so I didn't reply all on an email because I didn't want to give Mike Dyer heartburn even though some of you do reply all and truly I'm not the expert in um the sunshine law but I truly believe by me replying all to someone that wrote All of Us there's no violation unless one of you then respond but I was cautious anyway so Mr and Miss Taylor from the Georgian in which by the way is a time share from the best that I could find find out this this couple uh lives up north and is here maybe a week maybe two weeks out of the year I wanted to share what I what I wrote to her so all of you could hear uh her and him Mr and Mrs Taylor thank you for reaching out to me with your concerns I live here full-time and I'm down there often and I've never seen what you describe ever we have a team of volunteers who Patrol that section of the beach 8 to 10 hours a day daily and they have never seen what you described we have hired Animal Control Officers to patrol this area and they have never seen what you describe how can all these groups not see this yet you're seeing it there are not dogs off leash running free come on that is fear-mongering and totally inaccurate by the way the volunteers Patrol the beach in that area for dog waste and they never find it for you to say the sand smells of urine that is more fear mongering because high tide comes in twice a day and mother nature cleans the sand naturally with the tides I've never smelled urine there but I have seen a few dirty diapers left behind our volunteers have already picked up over 500 lb of trash from this Half Mile Stretch like I said I'm down there often with my family and my children and never have SE have we seen what you're reporting I have seen residents and visitors alike be able to enjoy their beach with their dogs for the first time in 35 years please know before this change happened people still brought their dogs to the beach they just did it illegally now they can do it legally if you and your other part-time owners don't want to visit an area of the beach where dogs are allowed then you can literally walk 50 ft to your South in front of the Andy Romano Park where dogs are not allowed I hope you have a good day Troy count County Council last year I just want to make sure you you all heard it I put it on the public record I won't be bullied I'm not afraid and I will defend and fight for what I believe is right there was a petition by the way I was a little late to lunch I did I did two interviews in here with Fox and West news today and I'll just tell you there was a petition started by an individual who lives in the tidesfall condominium and after X number of days or weeks he had like 220 some odd signatures nette mck Petrella started one and within three or 4 days um she had over 500 signatures on hers uh I'm just sharing this so that we we hear the whole story but for someone to have a fear of dogs I don't think that needs to be projected to the public 80 people die every day in vehicle crashes in the United States maybe someone will make a petition about stop stopping driving so that uh they can get to and from their safe face safely so I just I just put that out there uh so that you all are are aware there is fearmongering there is there are untruths and then here are some facts that we actually have we have real data that I don't want to steal staff Thunder because I know they're going to be presenting to us in the future but the last four months there have been 6,223 dogs counted in this area there have been 204 warnings when people have seen a dog off leash that's 3% by the way there have been two warnings of a dog using the restroom and it not being picked up 100% compliance our staff's data this isn't Nanette mckel patella and Daytona dog beach this is our staff's data 100% compliance when they've said hey glad you're enjoying everything I don't know if you know but your dog's supposed to be on a leash sorry had no idea hey those two people your dog went to the restroom you're supposed to clean it up sorry let me do that right now 100% compliance and um I've heard from the Sheriff's Office and staff's heard from them that some individuals outside of the dog friendly section of the beach when they are approached they say this is a service animal done done discussion right there over and done with they can't ask for proof that's it so I just think that it's important to see that and and I'm very appreciative of the individual that sent us the pictures of the dogs on the beach and I wrote them and I don't think they like my response because I wrote and said thank you so much the dogs and owners look thoroughly happy in these pictures in fact I swear the dog looks like he's smiling oh and by the way they're all on leash thank you for that also so anyway I just wanted to share with you uh Council the or Beach City commission tonight is going to be talking about a new hotel brand new going to be built the Old Quality Insight on seminal approach I want you all to know staff talked to me a couple of months ago because there was some discussion from the attorney and the developer that there's a sidewalk that um there was some discussion about who was who was going to have to take care of the sidewalk if they put it in and I was like like you know I that's where I grew up surfing and there's a beach ramp you can get access to and from the beach ramp I didn't get to look at the conceptual plan until last night and when I did um it makes total sense to have a sidewalk so that you and your family aren't walking down a beach approach where you've got the Outrigger and then you've got public parking and people are backing up or pulling forward while you're trying to walk down or with your kids or the elderly it just makes sense to have a sidewalk there we get one shot to get this right so my hope is that Orman Beach tonight uh holds the developer um accountable and says you know we're we're going to approve this but you have to have the sidewalk I just want to let you know about that two short things left um I I wish we really stuck with that time limit on presentations that we talked about as a group in here I I think that almost everybody uh unless it's a qua I do judicial hearing I think everybody can get what get out what they need to say in 5 minutes we've limited ourselves to 5 minutes we are given the material ahead of time I know I do my homework I know you all do your homework so George My Hope Is that these can be uh down to five minutes who was the winner today was it Bartlett was it Ben Bartlett is see the one Tad was it Tad casbeer who who did that and last but not least um I wrote your I wrote you privately and I wasn't going to say anything publicly but because you mentioned it I just Don I just want you to know that the Kent family collectively you've been in our thoughts and prayers and I'm so sorry about the loss of your mother kelman Reinhardt thank you chair first off I'm going to bring a little levity before I get serious Troy I'm going to have to have you buy a home in my subdivision because we've really trying to get a fountain there and I'm thinking you'd have more luck with it so all right I appreciate that so I had to do that uh don also you have been in our prayers I know what you went through I just went through it you know a little over a year ago so we're with you if you ever need anything please don't hesitate and it's not a Sunshine Law violation if you if you reach out and ask for help so we're not going to vote on it okay all right lastly on a serious matter I know you guys are going to roll your eyes cuz every time I bring up the jail you roll your eyes I just wrote down I will tell you that it's not about mate programs this is something very serious to me uh and I hope I have your attention um yesterday I had the opportunity to present the proclamation for Corrections offers week um this event coincided with some recent promotions with Inc Corrections many of these officers had their families present which is something that wasn't done when I first started back in the 80s seeing their families there was so important and all their families were there children wives girlfriends husbands as this may be the only recognition many of them will ever receive even close to being public this event made me start to think and brings me to my point uh Mr Santiago and I attended a law enforcement appreciation event just recently and both of us had the same idea these Ceremonies for our law enforcement for our sheriff's deputies sir I thank you is there another deputy here I thank them very much for your service beyond measure I mean you guys are phenomenal and we thank you and it's important that we recognize you trust me fire Services same thing EMS doctors nurses all the First Responders are important but so are our Corrections Officers in my 30 years I've never seen where they've done a recognition for them outside of the jail I found it necessary to ask if I could do the proclamation inside the jail I was accommodated I appreciate that um now I know we they don't have to worry about handling Riot situations or breaking up fights being inves in physical altercations themselves or being assaulted with a weapon being spit on or have other bodily fluids thrown on them being cursed at threatened their families threatened being the recipient of a broken bone cut stabbed or the worst situation being killed in the line of duty 8it yes they do we've seen it in fact during my tenure I've had five knee surgeries two neck surgeries several blows to the Head the last knee surgery was a total knee replacement all of which result of physical altercations with inmates therefore my plea to the organizations that are out there that put on these events consider these brave men and women of Corrections to be included I know for a fact that our very own Sheriff Mike Chitwood wouldn't mind sharing the state of his brave men and women within the sheriff's department as well as our fire chief Joe King or EMS director Kevin Captain I wanted to reflect for just a moment on what our new director of Corrections Joe deore which by the way outstanding he is for the other 51 weeks out of the year so when you're in public please do all you can to recognize these brave men and women in the Sheriff's Office your firefighters your EMS your nurses and please your Corrections Officers I will give a shout out to the Hispanic chamber of commerce uh lordis she is uh going to make every effort to put them on for next year uh for their recognition but it is very near and dear to my heart I've had friends uh one close friend that uh is retired now had the pencil stabbed in his eye we had a CO right down the road at tamoka Correctional Institution female that was killed by an inmate it happens every day there are the ones that you don't want to talk about but we know they're there take a moment when you see them and just tell them thank you for keeping that criminal element out of their neighborhoods that's all thank you councilman Robbins thank you chair uh Council for a couple meetings now in a row we've heard from uh members of the towing industry uh here locally I don't know if we gave uh a not of heads or we actually made a motion uh to staff did we set a date on getting them in here you you guys gave us Direction okay and we are putting that together okay thanks George my memory shot um I will I want to comment I'm glad as long as you brought that go ahead uh the young lady that spoke today uh we'll have to get some further clarification because her discussion was 100% opposite of what what the previous group that had come in here and said so we'll get that try to get that clarified but what we're talking about is the towing rates that are charged to folks who get uh towed off of private property talked to the sheriff or our team has and uh you know there's a contract uh that has been bid out and they're going to honor all that sure that's not what the people that came in here last time they're talking about you know know the rules that apply uh and we'll go over all that when we present good uh you know what uh exactly what they're talking about what fees and I think that's great I think we just need to get on the same page um y with that and thank you um Council I'd like in the future um if we can uh direct staff to uh look into or or just at least have a discussion I don't know if we even need to be really involved to the end but uh naming of County Assets in the future um I think what we did today was was excellent uh and awesome and and a good uh a good deed for that family and and for judge Henderson's Service uh but also too I think uh that we um uh can maybe put together a panel or something to rank or review um this process and that kind of takes it out of our uh uh uh court and maybe puts it in uh you know puts it in the Public's court and I think the more the merrier because uh we miss things um chair do you want a um a motion for staff to maybe look at a policy for uh the future naming of County assets make the motion if that's your pleasure yeah make the motion and what exactly I'm sorry because someone was speaking to me what what would be the motion uh to uh direct you guys to come up with um some sort of plan or policy where we could uh when it came to naming our County assets uh where it would go to a board or a what i' like to do I actually have already got staff working on from other uh uh discussions I've got uh two four six eight counties already uh with what they're doing we'll have some more and we'll put together bring back some options so that we can see and they rain I could tell you uh it's interesting just reading through you know there are some with committees or other things that uh just tell you uh they break down different assets and the different things so there's quite a bit here I'd like a little bit of time uh but we'll try to get it to you here in a couple of meetings great thank you um I had a constituent a fishing guide reach out to me about the ice machine uh down in River Breeze do we have a timeline of when those are going to going to be operational um and it doesn't have to be now I just didn't want to forget about it yeah back and also too when when we come in the parks that we have it can we George make up little sign saying uh you know ice machine in because where it's tucked in at River Breeze you wouldn't know it's there okay um just food for thought and and and lastly when we're on the phone with DOT uh for Don's turn lane there's U some really great dot ponds located on 44 uh in throughout the county I I don't know what their policy is but um um I'd like to make an ask to maybe uh you know people fish at those things anyway right um I see families out there all the time but their signs up they're doing it anyway can we see if they may want to work with us and and open that up um where our folks can leave take their kids and doesn't cost nothing and go have some fun I mean it's high and dry and that's okay MH and uh that's about it thank you Council councilman Santiago thank you Mr chairman well I had I had a few things I had to strike the first one because of Matt I did have a I was going to compliment you for not bringing up to jails in this meeting but and then I had to strike that out but you brought it up for a good reason reason though so it's a good one I wanted to um concur with your uh comments uh on recognizing our um Corrections Officers and I did speak with three board members and at that chamber and they're going to include it next year in their Valor Awards I was I was told so I'll try to keep track of that as it progresses um and um naming rights thank you Danny for bringing that up I think having a good firm policy that is um that allows for I don't think it's necessarily always vetting but includes it needs to include vetting but also uh more indepth than just you know was this a good person or not I think it also needs to uh in some cases we need to look at what I'd love to know what buildings we have also in the county that are named I don't know what they are so if we're if we're going to go down that path tell me what's named currently in the county and who after right um and then we'll dive into the policy when that time comes um and the other thing I wanted to bring up was the Motocross um site I know we had people I did not attend the meeting so I I apparently was well attended um looks like we're going to have a from from from what I'm seeing in here we're going to have a lot of objection from the uh uh community over there and I still support the Motocross site I think I think I may have made the motion that day May of that or seconded it so it's not about the Motocross uh thing I think it's going to be a great addition to our County uh in diversification and things that others can do um but I think we should also look at other sites if possible I personally was wondering you know why couldn't is there anything available near the fairgrounds um I don't know you know I know there's private property owners out there but I love the location I went to the site where we're proposing it I think it's kind of sort of out there um and that long road that takes you in there to me wasn't very appealing to go to to this type of facility if we want to make it uh a a venue where people want to come and spend money um I I don't know if there's any potentials around the fairgrounds or other sites I'm not just specifically saying that but I like that area around 44 because it's I4 State Road 44 easy access really little to no homes in the general area um and it's already kind of sort of an activity area so I I don't know I just wanted to throw that out there because I think we're going to be in for a fight for the site so but just but I support it we'll figure it out that's it Mr chair thank you councilman Dempsey yeah um first of all I'd like to thank everybody for the support that I got in the last few days um it's it's been wonderful I appreciate Jake coming out to the funeral I really appreciate that um so thank you everybody's been great I mean it's been great um as far as the Motocross facility uh you know I guess I've become kind of the point at my own doing I've become the point person for this whole project and you know if you haven't picked up on the vibe I do have frustrations with the Hunden group um because I've always maintained this could be done for two and a half three million no more than we've spent on pickle ball which is three and almost three and a half million we've spent on pickle ball and if we can create funding for Parks and Recreation for the older people to do pickle ball I think we owe it to our youth to give them at least one place to be able to ride in the county no no well the other thing is i' I'd like to know where they got this location because like I've said um in the media at least I I'm this wasn't my first pick and I don't necessarily agree that it is the best location um and I that lady was right when I saw her at that meeting I told her I wouldn't want it in my backyard I get you I I I I really understand their concerns and they're valid and um I just would like to know but the Silver Lining to all this is that um there's I don't know if you guys have seen any of the social media you know on Facebook or all this other stuff but there's a huge support for this and even the people who were against it seem to show support for the need in general of a facility like this it's just not in my backyard which I get um so I guess that's the one you know like I said Silver Lining to all this it's just I'd like to find another location I'd love to know and I don't know how I could get this information from staff I'd like to know where Hunden looked and I would like a list of all the properties they looked at and to find out um why those were turned down I mean did we just look at two or three properties or did we actually look at all the county properties and thoroughly evaluate our options and I'm I'm very skeptical of how thorough and how deep they looked for an alternate site um you know I was told that by the neighbors that they were never contacted it's just um I understand their frustration I'm not trying to shove it down their throat I just I want to find a location that's remote so I don't know how we could direct staff I would I would like to do the research because you saying if you want it done right you got to do it yourself I'll do it I don't trust Hunden to do it so let me just say I mean hundon was asked to to look at sites they looked at three sites uh mine I just was told they selected the one they did because we owned it the other two sites were uh would have to be acquired so that's why uh they picked the site that they did uh you know I know you and I talked others I mean we're we're open to other sites it's just that's one we own and they were're uh positive to it there's two roads that access it even though they're not um in the best of condition yet but uh I think that's why again it had some value to take a look at but obviously um I think all sites are going to have something you know and uh something some good assets and some bad and that one obviously uh has a neighborhood that uh uh could be affected by the noise so uh we're definitely uh uh committed to the project and um if it's the will of the council uh we'll continue to look at other properties and Don will consult you and uh work with you as you're going to be the if you want to be the point to the project that's that's great uh I mean we've already also asked other some of the the attorneys that got involved uh already we already put the word out well we were open to other properties of people they may be representing because sometimes they know of properties that we're not aware of that maybe aren't really on the market but could be purchased uh at a reasonable rate so would I be able to get a list of all the county-owned properties that are available in their in their field elevation uh yeah yes we can get uh our properties and we can get your elevation stuff that we already have we may not have all the elevation of all the property that we own uh but Al also with that you'll have to get the list of all the restrictions that are on a lot of those properties as well so that's the other point you know that was one of the properties that was bought um and uh that would not have been a a restriction on that particular piece of property or there may be others even in that area that were bought were bought with Port Orange for instance or there was properties uh was actually Daytona Beach property out there too on the back side of the landfill so um but yeah we can do that and uh we'll get you all the information we have all right Don before you go on uh Danny Robbins thanks chair Don real real quick um just to keep you in the loop I had requested from uh George and Ariel of the fill property and they have property surrounding it you know I've lived out there for 20 plus years I'm pretty intimate with just about um everyone out there uh and have my pulse on on that even the lady that I was answering a question to Jake that he had and uh even her so um nonetheless there's a lot of property out there I think there's a way to do this uh and look at this looking at other properties but also looking at an aerial because they they do have valid concerns that that corner there right before Halifax east of there or excuse me north of there it it's deadly um you know there's issues there noise there's things we can do where we can massage this and put it on a different possibly location of that property uh or consider a different location on that property so really uh how you make the sausage the balls in in in an our court a lot of people I think have jumped to conclusion um I do want to point out staff did an excellent um presentation kind of a DOT style presentation unfortunately not a lot of people read it even there at the the meeting because there were several options and and I've been I can say that because I've been monitoring the um social media as well and you do have overwhelming support I'd say 8020 but that 20% still needs representation um so I think um by uh if if we just dissect this a little bit I think we can I think we can come up with with something uh to make it work because I do see a public need for it um as as you do in and and many others so well as part of that request then George could I see the alternate possible sites at the landfill property as well as other locations because I I I just don't want it to be that was an eight-month delay in the project just to get to where we are I mean come on just I'd like to see it and just look for myself where we could go and not trust this group from Chicago to do their job I just I want to do it myself so if I can get that information that would be awesome thanks okay our chairman stepped out and um next is our at large member Mr johe Hanson thank you very much um a a lot of uh a lot of what we talked about today was on my list so I'll I'll skip through all that we're moving forward on all my notes except um we have a policy issue regarding uh accepting digital media uh and and we established that policy and and from what I can tell we broke it today uh as as great as it was to have the the the slides for the Quasi judicial hearing from cob Cole um um a state was handed from him to Carissa plugged into our machine and used and and the reason we have that policy is because we we want to be able to scan it first um and we asked for it 24 hours prior we asked for it 24 hour hours prior for anybody um so I I just want to uh take caution on that that um it it doesn't it doesn't play well when we when we do it for somebody who we might not care about and then abuse the privilege or otherwise restrict the privilege when it's somebody we might not want to hear from I I don't know so 24 hours is 24 hours um if if we don't get that digital media and that in fact I think it's 24 hours is our is our is our plan that then unfortunately we need to stick to that he could have done it without the pictures which would have stunk or uh we could have continued it to the next meeting and and um uh shame on them for not being prepared so um and I Mr Janson I was going to uh just agree with that I I was not aware that I knew he said he' emailed it I did not catch that he handed you the flash drive so when that comes up again um we can just offer him the opportunity to either proceed without it or ask for a continuance yeah and there's no way we can make 24 hours smash into a couple minutes um also a a couple God it was months ago um we had talked about uh uh approving the agenda as one of the first things we do and did we do it once I think we may have done it once and then and then it fell out of the fell out of the mix um I kind kind of went back my son graduated this weekend so I didn't do a lot of of research but I I kind of went back and tried to look at where we voted on it and I don't know if we ever did um and and is that something some counties do it some counties don't is that something we want to um want to vote on and and memorialize it so it becomes part of uh Chris's you know item one or whatever it is and um and we approve the agenda um as written before we move on I I also do it on some of the boards I'm on so uh I know you you all have probably experienced that elsewhere um but being the big process guy I'm I'm interested in um in having that discussion and making that motion I'll second it can Jake hold on one second councilman motion just ask I I made the motion to add agenda approval as item number one on the I think it would be item number one yes item number one on the agenda effective second second by um well it should be easy enough to do for the next meeting if it gets approved second okay to approve the agenda as item one the beginning of each meeting um motion is made by Jake Johansson and the second was by Danny Robbins questions or discussion all in favor say I I any opposed that's all I have chairman Chrissa you'll get that on thank you Chrissa okay just a couple things um Troy first I'm curious did you get an answer or reply to your email yet that that email that I sent that fan that husband and wife yes she wrote something to the effect of um thank you for your carbon copied um email cuz I sent one very similar to the other person and um I I didn't write her back and say I didn't play the tit the Tit for this and that I just said uh I didn't tell her your email mail was exactly that yours was copied by two or three people from the same place so okay yeah I think I think we all got those emails um George and I and I think Jim Jud there might have been other there was a lot of uh lot of employees there County Employees firefighters but we were able to go to the uh firefighters uh award dinner there was or award ceremony there was something going on the same night not every council member can go to to everything we have um but I want to say it was um it was an impressive night with an impressive group of people every one of our firefighters I think when I when I first started here actually it came up when I was first thinking about running I was contacted by some firefighters some EMS people about the U the dangers that they felt of having twom man stations there's a house that's involved in fire one guy guy goes inside the other guy's at the truck and wondering if the guy inside by himself will come out um the county has stepped up and it was it was not easy financially but we now have three man stations in every station of the county I think except the Airport Station which is a very specialized station correct and actually I think they they have three uh at times there and we have two stations I think with four so right your Pearson and your o and that that does two things it it keeps the public safe you you don't always need three guys you don't always need two guys cuz there's there's times when just nothing's happening but when you need them you need them and it also is not just a benefit to the uh the people that live in Valia County but the people that we hire um and that serve as uh firefighters correction whatever we want them to be able to go home alive at the end of their shift to their families so it it does two things I'm I'm really pleased that we were able to do that uh George talking about the the towing you have probably talk to him um uh I serve on on the TPO with um uh John Rogers who is owns a towing company I believe he's also a a public uh elected public servant and I think what the only thing they're asking for is it's something similar to Flagler County So you you're probably aware of that if you're not I'm just throwing that in because that's what that's what they're going to come back with they want the same deal that Flagler County got for public Towing um the on the workshop um meeting for for zoning you said July 23rd time was it 3:00 3:00 3 p.m. is there um I'm assuming you looked at everybody's schedule staff schedules um you know we had this scheduled for several months we had to change it um this is early May so now we're looking at Late July was was there anything in June no that we could do no we tried to get the first available uh and as I had to explained to some members of the public I think everybody bases their their schedule around what's out there so uh you know I can understand what happened and and and likely why you have what you have is because you guys chose to only have the one meeting in in July originally so that's what kind of left the hole I think for um for this to occur but uh yeah but believe me that Dana uh scoured and uh um of course you get into July 4th you've got uh vacations a lot of people out of town a lot of people are out of town I think in turns out in June so uh the best we could do is what we have there with July okay thank you uh last oh two things um Watershed last meeting or two meetings ago we voted to to raise uh storm water feeds one of the reasons that I voted for it was because I I know it's expensive to do the required uh Watershed studies or Basin studies as as clay um referred to them this morning uh can will you uh George update me you don't have to do it right now but up update me even just through email on uh I think Ben's not in the room is he Ben Bartlett never I don't want to put him on the spot anyway no I think uh uh we're scheduled I think for something Thursday uh if You' like I can have him okay if he's what I'm looking for is he he said um he would prioritize the list and do a couple I'm hoping that uh Hall Creek is is on there for the town wi Chain of Lakes but I would just I would appreciate to know um and it sounds like it's a it's a long process yeah it's not a short it's not a short study because it's a vast area uh but uh yes I I'll have him and he can go over what it typically takes uh and we'll do that we also have a um smaller study because remember you have those big studies and we have subbasin areas uh we're um looking at Solutions uh in the very because very southern tip of the hall Creek Basin which of course is the area around uh Common Ground farms and uh the Taylor Road situation we we uh uh met with the city of Delan they've agreed to partner with us on that and uh uh we have a a firm that was already on a contract that we're able to use so uh I think the scope has been written for that I don't know if they've agreed on a price but I think that's the uh coming up quickly because I also communicated that back with some of the folks in that area last week I think that's appropriate and I'm glad to hear it because Dand is certainly approving a lot of development in that in that uh area um naming rights for buildings came up and I'm that makes me wonder you know we last year or two years ago we hired a company to look at naming rights um we haven't heard back from them recently but they were going to look at naming rights for to bring money into the county maybe for the you know right and we actually have a few things uh that have occurred uh we just haven't may be able to come to you but um there were uh some complications to what they were proposing so we'll get we'll get back with but there has been some interest uh in that and again we'll continue to push that I mean you heard even when you get into ballparks and things of that nature if you get into a a P3 or some sort of an agreement uh you could be getting sponsorship money uh for some of that as well yeah the Ocean deck could be the Exon vald yeah yeah they need some uh public anyway uh Don the last since you're other point he's not here did he leave completely no okay well then maybe you can hear me in the back but since he oh since Don has become the point man for Motocross um I'll just give you my two cents of what I hear from the public I don't think I've talked to anybody that's against it they're against location and they're against liability they're against they're afraid of liability and they're against the county spending 10 $10 million which you think is is uh grossly incorrect um I think one thing that would bring everybody in the county together because I I think there's agreement that it would be a wonderful thing to have here especially since we have the speedway is can the can the speedway get involved do they have any land that they could put on it because the only way for us to not have liability for an accident is if it's private property run by a private uh operator is that not true there's it's insurance though I mean they'll ensure a burning building I mean insurance companies will insure anything there's a few insurance companies that will insure Motocross so yeah you got to have insurance if we're going to do it the problem is with expecting a private business am I allowed to answer I don't want to go out of yeah no because you you brought some people in here one of them was a private guy that was doing it and he sounded like he was doing it very successfully yeah there's two well there's there's a couple guys that are doing it but in order to make it realistic it's got to be on basically County owned property because it just they just lost one in Wildwood a privately a privately owned facility sold to a developer you know that's the problem all these places we used to ride is kids all that vacant land Tanger Outlet all these other places you could go and take your kid 30 years ago me and my son now have been sold off to development and these guys who've got these 100 Acre tracks of land that are making $30 a pop $40 a pop Motocross when a big developer comes in and says I'll give you 50,000 an acre and you don't ever have to worry about you know anything you know they all sell so that's the problem it's just like trying to own and operate a Little League field you're not going to make any money running a little league baseball field or a soccer field so this is just one of those things the county has to own for it to exist in my opinion and the insurance is there there's plenty of insurance no different than football fields County attorney do you does that keep you up at night liability for a Motocross or do you agree that insurance would cover us Mr chair Russ Brown deput County attorney there's there's actually also a statute on point that that can uh be uh we could use on County property that holds us harmless and for this type of uh recreational activity there are Insurance exchanges that will cover the rates as well um so there are Avenues out there to help with our sovere imunity as well to help us with our liability protection well this I'm sure this will all come up as we as we discuss it as a proposal comes but I'm I'm concerned if uh you know hold harmless or if we have parents sign and say they won't sue us if if that holds up no no there's actually statute on point we have sovereign immunity caps we have an insurance uh exchange that we can go to and also get affordable rate so there are protections uh in this Florida statute for this type of recreational activity if it were on County lands okay Jeff just to remind you yes the speedway is on County property so NASCAR Jeff D Aon Hart's death all the motorcycle racing out there all the injuries all the stuff the amateur Pro all that stuff's on County property already so to say that this is somehow uniquely dangerous when we got the Daytona Speedway with all their highspeed events and all the serious injuries out there you know I think we got to look at the big picture okay like I said it'll all this is going to come up and and be discussed I just you're probably hearing the same thing from the public that's the two issues liability and not in my backyard so okay I think uh that is all I had so we will adjourn the meeting at 5:56 e